BBL IN SENATE - Public Hearing On BBL in Cotabato City Oct 8 2014

Republic of the Philippines
CONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES

SENATE
Pasay City
COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT
JOINT WITH THE
COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION
DATE
Wednesday, October 8, 2014
TIME
9:00 a.m.
VENUE
Notre Dame University Gymnasium

Cotabato City
AGENDA
Senate Bill No. 2408 An Act Providing

for the Basic Law for the Bangsamoro and
Abolishing the Autonomous Region in
Muslim Mindanao, Repealing for the
Purpose Republic Act No. 9054, Entitled
An Act to Strengthen and Expand the
Organic Act for the Autonomous Region in
Muslim Mindanao, and Republic Act No.
6734, Entitled An Act Providing for an
Organic Act For the Autonomous Region in
Muslim Mindanao; and for Other Purposes
(by Senators Drilon, Sotto, A. Cayetano,
Legarda, Recto, Ejercito, Binay, Escudero,
Aquino, Angara, P. Cayetano, Honasan and
Guingona)
ATTENDANCE
SENATORS PRESENT:
HON. FERDINAND R. MARCOS JR.
HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III
- Chairman, Committee on
Local Government
- Chairman, Committee on
Peace, Unification and
Reconciliation
COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

GUESTS/ RESOURCE PERSONS:

Ms. Fatmatwati Salapuddin
Mr. Melanio Ulama
Atty. Bai Israhayda Sinsuat
Mr. Kelly Antao
Hon. Moises Arendain
Hon. Simeon Datumanong
Atty. Datu Khadafy Blao
Atty. Mohammad Al-amin Julkipli

Col. Orlando Edralin
Rev. Fr. Charlie Celeste
Rev. Fr. Charlie Inzon
Rev. Fr. Antonio Pueyo
Sis. Maria Fe Gerodias
Hon. Haroun Al-Rashid Lucman
Col. Haroun Jaji
Atty. John Lechonsito
Hon. Ziaur Rahman Alonto Adiong
Atty. Rasol Mitmug Jr.
Ms. Sharifa Pearlsia Dans
Mr. Datu Ramil Dilangalen
Major Jimmy O. Matalam
Mr. Datu Antonio Kinoc
Mr. Loreto Cabaya Jr.
Ms. Dulia Sultan
Hon. Datu Roonie Sinsuat
Hon. Myrna Ajihil
Assy. Majul U. Gandamra
- Commissioner, Bangsamoro
Transition Commission (BTC)
- Commissioner, BTC
- Legal Officer, Regional
Legislative Assembly (RLA)
- Board Member, 1st District,
North Cotabato
- Vice Mayor, Carmen, North
Cotabato
- Former Representative, Lone
District of Maguindanao
- Vice President for External
Affairs, Bangsamoro Sharia
Lawyers League of the
Philippines
- GPH Panel, OPAPP
- CO-6th Infantry Division Service
Battalion, Philippine Army (PA)
- Archdiocese of Cotabato
- President, Notre Dame
University, Cotabato City
- Vicariate, Tacurong City
- Religious of the Virgin
Mary of Southern Mindanao
- Regional Vice Governor, ARMM
- Commander of the 6th Civil
Military Operations Battalion
- City Legal Officer, Tacurong City
- Majority Leader, RLA
- Assistant Executive Secretary,
Office of the Regional Governor
- Assistant Secretary / OIC
Regional Secretary, DILG-ARMM
- Deputy Governor for Special
Concerns, Maguindanao
- 6th CMO Battalion GID,
Philippine Army
- Moro Islamic Liberation Front
- Board Member, 1st District,
North Cotabato
- Ex officio Board Member, 1st
District, North Cotabato
- Speaker, RLA
- Speaker Pro Tempore, RLA
- Member, RLA
2

Mr. Janimah Pandi

Mr. Norodin Manalo
- Member, RLA
- Executive Director, Regional
Reconciliation and Unification
Commission (RRUC-ARMM)
Hon. Emmylou Lala Talio-Mendoza - Governor, North Cotabato
Mr. Duma Mascud
- Acting Chairman, Mindanao
Alliance for Peace
Mr. Anwar Lucas
- President, Kutawato
Bangsamoro Movement for
Peace and Development, Inc.
Mr. Ronnie Guialel
- Secretary, Peoples Coalition,
Active Reform and
Transformation, Inc.
Mr. Dimnatan Radia
- President, Bangsamoro
Executives and Leaders League
Ms. Bai Fatima Sinsuat
- Chairperson, Philippine National
Red Cross, Cotabato City
Mr. Abdulmannan L. Gayak
- Chairman, Mindanao Alliance for
Peace (MAP)
Mr. Rahib L. Kudto
- National President, United Youth
for Peace and Development Inc.
Mr. Rahib Payapat
- Bangsamoro Youth Leaders
Forum
Mr. Hamid Ladjakahal
- Undersecretary, DepEd-ARMM
SENATORS STAFF:
Atty. Luzviminda D. Lavarias
Atty. Jose Cadiz Jr.
Ms. Gene Ferrer
Ms. Gloria Ildefonzo
Ms. Agnes Frogoso
Mr. Ignacio Salvador R. Gimenez
Atty. Mark Robert Dy
Ms. GH Ambat
Atty. Alemar Mosquito
Ms. Kristela Gastronuevo
Mr. Ben Roque
- O/S Marcos
- O/S Marcos
- O/S Marcos
- O/S Marcos
- O/S Marcos
- O/S Marcos
- O/S Guingona
- O/S Guingona
- O/S Recto
- O/S Recto
- O/S Pimentel

SENATE SECRETARIAT:
Ms. Assumption Ingrid B. Reyes
Mr. Elpidio H. Calica, MNSA
Ms. Sherill M. Villadiego
Ms. Rosemarie J. Ortiz
Ms. Ma. Rosalinda J. Catadman
Ms. Bathaluman H. Gonzales
Ms. Helen S. Gayapa
Mr. Clinton S. Martinez
Mr. Daniel Diamzon
Ms. Ana Marie F. Deplomo
Ms. Avigail G. Andaya
Mr. Rogelio C. Pacete
Mr. Warren Tan
- Committee Secretary,
Committee on Local
Government
- Committee Secretary,
Committee on Peace,
Unification and Reconciliation
- Committee Stenographer
- Senate Tax Study and
Research Office (STSRO)
- Assisting Staff, LCSS A
- Office of the Sergeant-at-Arms
(OSAA)
-do-
(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

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October 8, 2014
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1
AT 9:53 A.M., HON. FERDINAND R.

MARCOS JR., CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON
LOCAL GOVERNMENT, AND HON. TEOFISTO L.
GUINGONA III, CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE
ON
PEACE,
UNIFICATION
AND
RECONCILIATION, RESPECTIVELY, CALLED THE
HEARING TO ORDER.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen.
The hearing of the Committee on Local Government joint with
the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation of October 8,
2014 is hereby called to order in behalf of the Committee on Local
Government.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA).
On behalf of the
Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation, this Senate

Committee hearing is hereby called to order.
THE
CHAIRMAN
(SEN.
MARCOS).
would
like
to
acknowledge, for the record, the resource persons who are here with
us this morning.
The Comsec will read for the record the resource persons we
have here today.
THE COMMITTEE SECRETARY (MS. REYES). Good morning.
From the BTC, we have Commissioner Fatmawati Salapuddin;
another commissioner is Melanio Ulama from the BTC; from the

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Regional Legislative Assembly, we have Atty. Bai Israhayda Sinsuat,

the legal officer; Board Member Kelly Antao, 1st District, North
Cotabato; and the representative of the mayor of the municipality of
Carmen, Vice Mayor Moises Arendain; former representative Simeon
Datumanong of the Maguindanao Board District; from the Bangsamoro
Shariah Lawyers League of the Philippines, we have Datu Khadafy
Blao; and the legal team for the GPH panel, we have Atty. Mohammad
Al-amin Julkipli; we also have Colonel Orlando Edralin, CO-6th Infantry
Division
Service
Battalion;
we
also
have
Fr.
Charlie
Celeste,
Archdiocese of Cotabato; Sister Maria Fe Gerodias, Religious Virgin

Mary of the Southern Mindanao Province; and, of course, the president
of Notre Dame University, Fr. Charlie Inzon. We also have Governor
Emmylou Lala Talio-Mendoza.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
Very well.
We will
acknowledge the presence of the other resource persons when they

arrive. I would just like to make a very quick opening statement.
On September 23, we had in the Senate the first briefing
conducted by both panels--both negotiating panels for the Committee
on Local Government and that was the first briefing that we have had.
And it became very clear that it was important that we move to come
down to all the affected areas both in and out of the proposed
Bangsamoro region. That is why we are here today and that is why we
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will be conducting hearings further into next month and probably

extending up to next year here in Mindanao. As again, this is a very
important issue and it is important to know from the locals what their
views are as to the effects of the proposed Bangsamoro Law in its
present form. I believe that we approached this as an opportunity-another opportunity for peace in Muslim Mindanao and in Mindanao in
general. And that is why our desire for peace is so great that we must
make absolutely certain that this law, the form that it will be passed in,
is the correct form and that is why it is very important to go into as
detailed a discussion and a debate as possible because of, again, our
true desire to finally find the formula for a true and lasting peace in
Muslim Mindanao and in the surrounding areas. So with that, I give
the floor to Senator TG Guingona.
Thank you, Senator
Marcos.
Mga kaibigan, mga kaigsoonan, mga kapwa kong Mindanaoeo,
madalas natin madinig ang mga salitang ito, Para magkaroon ng
kapayapaan, kailangan matutunan natin ang paggalang ng isat-isa.
For peace to happen, it is often said that we must learn to respect one
another. Tanong ko naman, Ano ba ang dapat nating igalang sa isatisa?
Ang karaniwang sagot, Dapat nating igalang ang ating
pagkakaiba.
We must learn to respect our differences.
Kapag ang
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ating Mindanao ang pinag-usapan, doon nakatuon ang pansin sa ating

pagkakaiba. Our differences, magkakaibang kultura, magkakaibang
pananampalataya, magkaibang pamamaraan ng pamumuhay.
naman.
Tama
At isa sa mahalagang bagay kung bakit malayo na ang
narating nitong usapang pangkapayapaan sa Mindanao
ay ang
pagkilala at paggalang sa mga pagkakaiba na ating nabanggit. Ito ang

naging paalala o reminder sa atin ng yumao nating kaibigang si
Chairman Ustadz Salamat Hashim. Ang sabi niya, and I quote, Tayo
ay dalawang lahi, may magkakaibang paniniwala, magkaibang kultura
at pinalaki na magkaiba ang karanasan sa kasaysayan. Sa araw na
ito, mga kaibigan, hindi lamang ang pagkakaiba o differences ang
dapat nating tingnan at pakinggan.
Sa araw na ito nang unang
pagdinig ng Bangsamoro Basic Law, sa tingin ko panahon na para mas

tingnan natin ang pagkapare-pareho natin sa halip na pagkakaiba.
Isnt it about time we look to what our people have in common and
thus unite them rather than the difference which divides us.
Bumuo
tayo ng isang hinaharap. Let us build a future kung saan gagamitin

ng mga anak natin ang mga pinakamahalagang taon na ito sa kanilang
buhay sa pagkakamit ng kapayapaan at kasaganahan in the pursuit of
peace and prosperity.
Layunin natin na hanapin
ang mga bagay, mga pangarap at
mga aspirasyon kung saan tayo nagkakaisa.
Pagkatapos nating
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makita iyong mga bagay, pangarap at aspirasyon, iyon ang pag-aralan

natin kung ang mga iyon ay kinikilala din at bahagi ng Bangsamoro
Basic Law. As we discover the things, the dreams and the aspirations
that unite us, let us also ask whether or not those things, dreams and
aspirations are recognized and respected and celebrated by the draft of
the Bangsamoro Basic Law.
Ang isa sa pinakamagandang paraan at
pagpapakita ng paggalang ay ang pakikinig natin sa bawat isa.
The
best way to show respect for one another is to listen to each other.
Narito kami ngayon para ipakita ang paggalang na iyan. Tayo na po
muling makinig, makinig po tayo sa bawat isa.
Thank you.
Thank you, Senator
Guingona.
I think the easiest and most orderly procedure/smv

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easiest and most orderly
procedure would be for us to allow all of our resource persons to

present their positions Re:
The Bangsamoro Basic Law.
And after
that, perhaps, we can enter into discussion but let us hold off and
allow everyone to put into the record their positions. And that way, we
have attended to that part of the discussion and it is clear on the
record what positions the different parties hold.
proceed with our discussions after that.
And, again, we will
It is the interest of the
Committees that are represented here that everyone who would like to
speak will be given a chance to speak and to make whatever position,
whatever arguments, whatever points that they would like to make
concerning this.
And so we will try to be as liberal as possible in
allowing everyone to speak. But, again, it would be I think very much

in the interest of good order that we first give everyone a chance to
give their positions on the question before us.
I would like to acknowledge the arrival of the Regional Vice
Governor of ARMM Haroun Al-Rashid Lucman who has arrived.
And I believe it would be proper that we begin withhe is
representing Governor Mujiv Hataman and the Autonomous Region of
Muslim Mindanao.
If you are ready, Vice Governor, we would like to go to you for
your position on the proposed Basic Bangsamoro Law.
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MR.
LUCMAN.
wa barakatuh.
Assalamu
Alaikum
wa
rahmatullahi
Magandang umaga po sa lahat ng mga panauhin natin
dito sa forum na ito.

Before anything else, I would like to say my usual courtesies to
Honorable Senator Ferdinand Marcos Jr., Chairman of the Committee
on Local Government; and Senator Teofisto Guingona III, Chairman of
the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation.
I just would like to read through the position paper of the
Autonomous Regional Government
which
is capsulized in eight
paragraphs:
(1) The Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao supports the
GPH-MILF peace process and the Bangsamoro;
(2) The ARMM executive department is currently revering the
Bangsamoro Basic Law in order to positively provide ideas that can
better enrich the law and its discussion;
(3) The ARMM is currently working with the GPH and MILF for
transition mechanisms that will possibly provide for non-disruption of
basic services in case the BBL is passed into law and later on ratified;
(4)
The
executive
department
is
currently
undertaking
consultations among our employees to be able to learn more of their

ideas, aspirations and concerns regarding the BBL;
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(5) We are in the process of complying with the request of the

Senate and Congress to do the inventory of all assets and liabilities of
ARMM;
(6) ARMM is trying to fix and settle all obligations and
accountabilities with regard to GSIS employee loans, cash advances,
etcetera;
(7) We are looking at the end of November to provide the Senate
and Congress with meaningful inputs and updates;
And, last, rest assured that the ARMM representatives will always
be available as resource person in specific topics and participate in
fora,
conferences
and
other
activities
that
will
support
the
undertakings for peace.

Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Vice Governor
Lucman.
As the Vice Governor, have you given the committees a copy of
your position paper?
If not, could we have a copy so that we can put
it in our records?
Maraming salamat, Vice Governor.
I believe it would at this point be most useful for the former
representative, Simeon Datumanong, to give us his views on the
proposed law.
It will be certainly helpful because of the breadth and
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extent of his experience on this issue which he has been involved with
for many decades now.
So Representative Datumanong, if you would give us the benefit
of your experience and wisdom on the subject.
MR. DATUMANONG.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, the Honorable
Senator Bongbong Marcos.
And my respect to the other chairman,
Chairman of the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation

who used to be my colleague in the House of Representatives, Senator
TG Guingona.
Mr. Chairman, I dont know if I can really be very relevant but I
would like anyway to respond to the statement of the Honorable
Chairman of the Local Government of the Senate.
Mr. Chairman, personally, I fully support the Bangsamoro Basic
Law which is fully embodied in Senate Bill No. 2408 because it is my
considered
feeling
that
the
Bangsamoro
Basic
Law
is
the
comprehensive and lasting solution to the peace and order problem in

our part of the country, in the whole of Mindanao.
Mr. Chairman, we should remember that the peace and order
problem has been here for more than four decades and spanning the
administrations of six presidents of the Philippines from 1973.
The
Bangsamoro Basic Law now is actually the attempt and hopefully the
realization of the fulfillment of the terms of the agreement entered into
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by the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. I would like
to recall, Mr. Chairman, that in the past when the government
seriously found out that the problem on peace and order has been of
such seriousness that it already saw the loss of more than 100,000
lives, our government sought the good offices of some friendly Muslim
countries. And in 1976, Mr. Chairman, the Organization of Islamic
Conference facilitated a negotiation meeting between the government
representatives and the secessionist, the Moro National Liberation
Front or MNLF in Libya/rjo
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MR. DATUMANONG. in Libyain Tripoli, Libya, which resulted

to the so-called Tripoli Agreement of December 23, 1976, and when
there was already an agreement fully signed by the representatives or
the panel of the Philippines and the MILF leadership which called for
the
organization
of
autonomous
region
in
Southern
Philippines
composing 13 provinces, and in compliance thereof, our government,

by proclamation, organized such autonomous region in Southern
Philippines which was subject to constitutional processes which was
referendum and plebiscite. Then, in that referendum and plebiscite in
April of 1977, it was rejected by the people and in lieu thereof there
was the option to have two autonomous regions, Autonomous Regions
IX and XII. And because of the rejection, the MNLF did not take it, did
not come in, and so the problem on peace and order continued.
Continued fighting that also claimed more lives and then when the late
President Cory Aquino came in, there was the adoption of the new
Constitution
which
embodied
provisions
on
the
organization
of
autonomous regions in Muslim Mindanao and in the Cordilleras.

Pursuant to that, Mr. Chairman, the government or the Congress
of the Philippines created the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao
or ARMM, in short. But because the terms of what was in the Tripoli
Agreement was not followed or was not contained therein the MILF did
not take it.
When President Ramos came in as president of the
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Philippines there was the negotiation in Jakarta facilitated by the

Indonesian
government,
and
this
resulted
to
the
Final
Peace
Agreement between the government and the MNLF on September 2,

1996. Some terms of the agreement were embodied in a law that was
enacted by Congress which is now Republic Act No. 9054, amending
the Autonomy Act, Republic Act No. 6734, in order to strengthen and
expand the application or the operation of the autonomous region to
accommodate some of the terms of agreement. Because of that act of
the government and because this was approved, the MNLF accepted
the terms and, in fact, Chairman Nur Misuari accepted to be the
governor of the autonomous region.
I am saying this, Mr. Chairmen,
because it is my considered view that when terms of agreement are

being implemented to the satisfaction of the parties, then it will solve
the problem. It is very fortunate, Mr. Chairmen, that to date there is
again an agreement between the government and the MILF, the Moro
Islamic Liberation Front, which is now the subject of House Bill No.
2408, and its counterpart bill in the House of Representative.
very
fortunate
that
the
chairman
of
the
Committee
on
It is
Local
Government and the chairman of the Committee on Peace, Unification

and Reconciliation are here to hold this public hearing. Because this
public hearing is not only for the Senate or Congress to understand
more about the Bangsamoro Basic Law, but it is also for the people in
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the Bangsamoro and in the provinces or areas which may be affected

by the Bangsamoro that will be benefitted for by the public hearings to
get the proper information.
And so, Mr. Chairman, let me just state likewise that this public
hearing and the indicated other hearings that the Committees will hold
and, hopefully, the counterpart committee or ad hoc committee in the
House of Representatives will do will make it easier for the ratification
of the plebiscite that may come after the approval or enactment by the
Congress of the Philippines of the Bangsamoro Basic Law.
And then,
because of faithful implementation of the agreement in the fact that

there is such approval, there is such interest in the pursuit of the
approval of the Bangsamoro Basic Law, as contained in both Senate
and House bills, I think that this will now be the best legacy of the
government of the Philippines; the best legacy of the Congress of the
Philippines to the people, not only of the conflict affected areas, not
only of Mindanao, but the whole country because this will be a lasting
solution to the peace and order problem. This will now give the people
not just the convenience of pursuing their individual or collective
livelihood, but this will give rise to the economic development of the
affected areas which they have sought for quite a time because of the
neglect for decades by the government of the Philippines to look after
and take care of.
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Mr. Chairman, I would like to state finally that it should be the

gratitude of those of us here present to the two committees of the
Senate that they have come and, hopefully, the approval of Senate Bill
No. 2408 containing the Bangsamoro Basic Law will be soon enough
and it will take into consideration the framework schedule, or the
schedule of the time frame that has been agreed upon so that there
will be more effective result of what the Senate and the House of
Representatives and the government, in general, doing for the solution
of peace in our part of the country and in Mindanao.
Thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Congressman.
Before we proceed I would like to acknowledge, again for the
record, the arrival of Colonel Haroun Jaji, commander of the 6th Civil
Military Operations Battalion, and the arrival of Atty. John Lechonsito,
the city legal officer of Tacurong City.
Cong Sim, if I can ask the first question from you. You
mentioned, napag-usapan po ninyo iyong 96 agreement that was
under the Ramos administration with specifically the MNLF. Now, what
in your view will be the nature of the Bangsamoro in relation to the 96
agreement? Much has been said about the MNLFs role in all of these,
not only in these discussions but actual implementation. So, in your
view, is this a superseding event? Is this an amendment to that? Is
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that an addition? I would very much want to know not only your policy
opinion, but even your legal opinion as
MR. DATUMANONG. Mr. Chairman, it is both.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. GUINGONA).
whatever your view is, Manong
Yes, may I add also,
Sim, how do we at the end try to
harmonize everything?
MR. DATUMANONG. I was saying, it is both. First, this is not
the Bangsamoro Basic Law as it is now is not just an amendment. It is
repealing Republic Act No. 9054, which actually took care/mrjc
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MR. DATUMANONG.
which actually took care of some of the
agreements between the government and the MNLF. However, many

of the provisions that are in Republic Act 9054, I found out to be also
incorporated in the Bangsamoro Basic Law. In a way, therefore, this
has the effect of not totally repealing but taking into its old fold those
which are relevant or which are for the more effective use of this
agreement to the peace and order problem and to the development of
Mindanao, particularly the conflict-affected areas.
this
agreement
independence.
was
signed,
the
Specifically because when
MNLF
declared
state
of
As the talks progressed, there was an uprising in
Zamboanga. And again when the Bangamoro Basic Law was given
transmitted by the President to Congress, again there was a
declaration of state of independence by the MNLF. It would seem to
indicate
that
the
MNLF
feel
somehow
excluded
despite
your
observation that many of the elements of that 96 agreement are in

the
Bangsamoro
Basic
Law.
It
would
seem
because
of
the
pronouncements and the actuations of the MNLF surrounding the

progress of the negotiations which ended up with the agreement and
now the proposed Bangsamoro Law would seem to bethe MNLF
would seem to feel excluded.
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It is something that is not technically part of the law and if we

hope to succeed, certainly all the armed groups should be part of any
agreement. Otherwise, they will resort once again to the use of arms.
MR. DATUMANONG.
Mr. Chairman, I feel that the reason why
Chairman Nur Misuari, after the Zamboanga unfortunate incident,

declaring independence is because, first, he was disappointed because
the government has entered into another agreement. He wanted that
there should be only one agreement. Unfortunately, there have been
two groups of the secessionist movements. Even during the Jakarta
negotiations of 1996, there was already the MILF which separated from
the MNLF for some years before that time.
And the negotiation in
Jakarta did not consider the participation of the MILF.
The MNLF
negotiating with the government did not even ask the government that
there is such another group as the MILF, which should be included in
the negotiation. That is one.
Second, Mr. Chairman, I think that it is not really correct to fully
believe that Chairman Nur Misuari has resorted to independence
because, as a matter of fact, he is still awaiting for the Organization of
Islamic Conference to convene the tripartite meeting between the
government, the MNLF and the MILF for certain reconciliation of some
views and for the implementation of some of the terms of the
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3
agreement of 1996 which have not been implemented by the

government.
So in other words, he is still pursuing what has been the effect of
the
agreement
of
1996.
And,
therefore,
that
is
away
from
independence.
Therefore, in your view,
there is no need to include in the discussion any further because, in

your view, the negotiations with the MNLF are final and you have
reached an agreement. And so that there will be no need, in your view
again, for us to adjust the BBL so that some of the elements of the 96
agreement be included.
Again, it is not a philosophical matter.
It is a practical matter
because we have already seen that, again, the Zamboanga uprising

and, of course, we have heard the pronouncements coming from the
MNLF as to the state of independence.
MR. DATUMANONG.
Mr. Chairman, I think the matter
concerning the MNLF can still be considered, not necessarily in the

case of the enactment of the Bangsamoro Basic Law but in the case of
the implementation of what are there in the Bangsamoro Basic Law.
For instance, when the transition authority will be called upon to
perform its duty after the ratification of what is going to be approved
by this Congress of the Philippines, then the MNLF can be members of
22

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4
the transition authority.
After all, the part of the MILF in that
transition authority is only to have majority of the membership and

leadership of the transition authority but there will be so many other
members who will not be MILF, and I think that the MNLF can be in
that other part or other membership in the transition authority.
And not only that, but in the other implementation of the
Bangsamoro Basic Law when there will be election of the members of
the legislative assembly or the parliament, the MNLF can be part of the
parliament.
organize
And, in fact, if there will be majority of them, they can
the
government
and
have
the
chief
minister
of
the
Bangsamoro government. The approval of the Bangsamoro is not to

exclude anybody else but only an organization for the MILF. It is going
to be an organization for everybodythe MILF, the MNLF, the nonMILF,
non-MNLF,
the
Bangsamoro
inhabitantsnot
just
the
Bangsamoro people who are natives of the area during the time of
conquest and colonization but also the others who have come here and
qualified under the law to become parts of the government, especially
of parliament.
Manong Sim, that is a
good point maybe because there are a lot of misconceptions that this
is exclusive government for one group. No. It is clear. For example,
like you said, the MNLF can be a member of the transition authority
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5
and then they can participate in the democratic process and be elected
in parliament and they can even organize parliament. And so it is clear
that this Bangsamoro is not a Bangsamoro for one group. Uulitin ko
po, very, very important pointthis is a Bangsamoro for everyonefor
everyone, including the Lumads, including the Christian settlers.
think thats a very, very important point that should be always

repeated and driven home.
Thank you, Manong Sim, for that clarification.
Thank you.
Im sure this discussion will continue as we go on. And it is our

intention at some point to include in our hearings some authorized
spokesmanbrhg
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THE
CHAIRMAN
(SEN.
MARCOS).
some
authorized
spokesmen of the MNLF to come and to give us their view on the

subject. It is just that the subject comes up because, again, of the
uprising in Zamboanga and its stated purpose. And furthermore, the
pronouncement of the MNLF that they will not participate in the
discussions and neither will they honor the agreement and the
subsequent law that derives from it.
But anyway, again, it is
something that we will have to look into further because the

implementation of this will require the cooperation of all stakeholders
involved.
I would like to acknowledge the arrival of the members of the
Regional Legislative Assembly, Speaker Datu Ronnie Sinsuat, Speaker
Pro Tempore Myrna Ajihil, the Assemblywoman Majul Gandamra,
Assemblyman Janimah Pandi.
Also I would like to acknowledge the
arrival of Mr. Norodin Manalo, the executive director, Regional

Reconciliation and Unification Commission of ARMM; Duma Mascud,
the acting chairman of the Mindanao Alliance for Peace; Anwar Lucas,
president,
Kutawato
Bangsamoro
Movement
for
Peace
and
Development, Incorporated; Ronnie Guialel, secretary of the Peoples

Coalition, Active Reform and Transformation, Inc.; Dimnatan Radia,
president of the Bangsamoro Executives and Leaders League.
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So, thank you, Cong Sim, for that very thorough backgrounder
on the history of this peace negotiations.
At this point, I think we can move on to Governor Lala Mendoza,
the province of North Cotabato, for her positionthe position of the
Office of the Governor, the government of Northern Cotabato.
Governor Lala, please.
MS. MENDOZA. Thank you very much.
First and foremost, thank you for making it very clear to all of us
present
here
that
the
Bangsamoro
Basic
or
the
Bangsamoro
Government or the Bangsamoro Basic Bill is not exclusive to one

organization. It is for all the Moro community, for Christian and tribe
people alike. We have been partners right from the start. We had our
share of consultation and January, if I am not mistaken, the last visit
of Professor Sheila, there were issues raised by our mayors, by our
civil society, by our board members. And today, I will articulate those
issues and that as far as February 6 in a form of resolution we
submitted to you our position, the position of the Province of Cotabato
in a form of resolution last March 11, that was formalized, submitted to
the Lower House and submitted to the Senate.
involved we are.
So, this is how
But, nonetheless, allow me to put on record the
issues that we raised before the panel when they visited us and
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I believe, Gov, that one you

sent it to the House of Representatives.
MS. MENDOZA. And the Senate.
We did not receive that
document.
MS. MENDOZA. Well, anyway, we will be submitting it to you.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, maybe you can take us
through it.
MS. MENDOZA. All right.
And besides, we need to
put it on the record anyway.

MS. MENDOZA. Yes. There are seven issues raised.
First, for one, the barangays in the municipalities of Aleosan,
Carmen and Kabacan are not contiguous.
contiguous.
This is an issue on being
To the rest of the areas and the territories, these
barangays are within and surrounded by excluded barangays in the

said municipalities. Assuming they ratify their inclusion, what law shall
govern them after the ratification of the BBL insofar as matters which
under the BBL shall pertain to the Bangsamoro government to decide?
So, this is one of the issues on the issue on are they contiguous? I
have areas they are not contiguous.
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Second, we have an ongoing boundary dispute concerning three

provinces: Maguindanao, Sultan Kudarat and North Cotabato.
What
law will govern us after the Bangsamoro Basic Law?

Third, there are areas not part of the proposed core territory but
are contiguous to the said proposed core territory. Could we petition
the inclusion at least two months before the scheduled ratification?
What if the areas in the proposed core territory or the petitioner area is
contiguous to opt to be excluded from the Bangsamoro territory? Will
the petitioner area still be included even if it is no longer contiguous to
the core territory?
Number four, there are other areas not part of the proposed core
territory but are contiguous to the core territory where substantial
Bangsamoro population reside. We opt to petition for inclusion at any
time. The phrase at any time is too broad in scope. This is a matter
of concern for us because we have development programs in the area.
We have peace and order situation in the area.
We do delivery of
services in the area. And so we are just wondering how to proceed to

these areas mentioned.
So, to allow inclusion into the Bangsamoro territory at any time
would greatly affect these development programs and delivery of
services as it would specifically affect the LGU share in the internal
revenue allotment.
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Would you have a proposal,

specific? We will go back to the question of non-contiguous areas and
then the inclusion. But now you are talking about the time because at
any time is the phrase that you find objectionable.
Would you
suggest that there be a period of time?

MS. MENDOZA. We want a clarification on this because it is too
broad for us.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And in your view, because,
as you say, it would be a waste of effort for those areas to develop
plans and to make their development plans which will never be
implemented because at some point, at any time you are not sure that
maybe those areas will ask to be included in the Bangsamoro region.
So, would you suggest that there be a time period that we do the
election after the BBL, I mean the plebiscite after the BBL tapos huwag
na o puwede pang mag-apply iyong mga ibang areas for a period of so
many years? Ano kaya sa palagay ninyo
MS. MENDOZA.
Kaya nga nagtatanong kami doon iyong
inclusion na phrase at any tme they can opt to join.

Hanggang kailan iyon?
Ano iyon?
Kung hindi siya core territory at mayroon
siyang populasyon at ito ay nasa probinsiya namin and we take care of

them, we have programs particularly in that barangay at gusto niyang
sumama sa core territory, hindi ba nandoon sa FAB na at any time?
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Kaya gusto naming malaman anong ibig sabihin noong at any time
na iyong 10 percent they come together mere petition or through
resolution ng barangay? So, ano iyon? Saan iyon at hanggang kailan
iyon? Kasi kung i-suma-total mo iyan
Well, pag nakalagay at
any time, ibig sabihin at any time.

MS. MENDOZA. That is why we want clarification on this.
I think what we are
speaking of here is the time limit after perhaps the regional plebiscite
and I quite understand having been a governor myself how that might
make your development implementation a little hesitant if there is
always the possibility that you will eventually be included in the
Bangsamoro under a different administration and therefore under the
different plan. So, again, is there a time period that you think would
be a reasonable time period within which any LGU who would like to
join the Bangsamoro can still join the Bangsamoro but beyond which
there is a cutoff?
So, would you suggest five years?
Would you
suggest 10 years, one year/hsg
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). one year?

MS. MENDOZA. How is that related to the amendment of the
Constitution?
How long can we introduce amendment to the
Constitution or revise the Constitution?
I dont know.
Changing a
name of a street, it takes you 10 years, right, before you can change
the
name of a street to another name.
what is your barometer here?

frame siya dapat.
But with the Constitution,
So kailangan hindi siyamay time
Kaya nga you have to guide us through here.
Kaming nasa ground, we are doing our share. Hindi namin alam
hanggang kailan.
Yes.
But I think what
we are asking also is that-MS. MENDOZA. Our suggestion.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Okay. Yes, what is your
suggestion?
We dont need to put you
on the spot here but maybe just to move the discussion forward
MS. MENDOZA. We are supportive to any peace program here
in North Cot or in Mindanao kaya nga February pa langkaya nga
iyong mga plebisito kasama kami na naghingi na kailangan may
plebisito.
Ngayon lumabas iyong agreement, so kagaya nang
miyembro ng Kongreso
iniisa-isa din natin.
Iniisa-isa rin namin.
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Apparently, wala kaming nakitang maging basehan naay limang

araw ba, limang buwan ba, isang taon ba? But allow me to bring you
to our last issue na ni-raise namin.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). You have, I think, seven.
MS. MENDOZA. We have. Kasi itong seven, parang kokonekta
ito dito barangay.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. All right, please.
MS. MENDOZA.
Halimbawa, mayroong power generation na
gustong gawin sa isang barangay. Magsisimula tayo ng exploration.

Tapos hindi siya core territorynagsimula na kami ha. Hindi siya core
territory at gusto niyang sumama, at umusad na kami.
Binigyan na
namin ng endorsement iyong barangayiyong si Aboitiz ba or si EDC,

Sige, proceed with the development of the renewable energy. Then
nagkaroon tayo ng Bangsamoro government.
iyong magiging sitwasyon
Kaya sabi namin, ano
ng mga programa o proyekto or negosyo
doon sa areas na ma-govern na ng Bangsamoro government. Na dati

iyong mga linatag naming mga fundamentals ay amin at ngayon maga-adjust pa sila dahil Bangsamoro government na. Tulungan ninyo rin
kami.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I understand exactly what
you are saying.
Iyong mga administrative nga na question
ang
nagiging problema. In our first briefing, because it wasnt technically a
32

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3
hearing, but in our first briefing, immediately the implementation of

some of the principles and concepts became into question. We never
even arrive at a discussion on the legalities on very, very marginally
but mostly the questions were the administration.
And again, the
formula for the balance of power which is also what you are talking
about between not only the Bangsamoro government and the republic,
but
the
Bangsamoro
government units.
government
and
the
surrounding
local
So although what you are asking for is a
clarification to make it more definite in terms of the time period and

then should there be a change in LGUtama ba iyong sinasabi ko-kapag nagbago ang LGU at sumama sa Bangsamoro government o
sumailalim
sa
Bangsamoro
government,
papaano
ngayon
ang
magiging administration noong dating provincial government doon nga

sa?
MS. MENDOZA. Yes, sir. And, for example, mayroon kaming sa
sentro.
Nasa gitna siya, may mga peace and order concern kami,
paano namin ma-implement iyong aming karapatan na bigyan ng

hustisya iyong nangangailangan na hindi na namin teritoryo and yet
nasa loob siya ng aming
this.
teritoryo? So again, let me be clarified on
These issues were raised.
In February, we sent these for the
guidance of OPAPP and now we just want to put this on record before
the Senate and as well as for the Members of the House to guide us
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through for the clarification and all.
And iyong panglima, if the
proposed core territories opt to be excluded from the Bangsamoro

during the ratification, could such area petition for the
inclusion
sometime later? Pwede ba siyang humabol kasi mayroon din kaming

nangunsulta kamimayroon ding nagsabi na pwede kaming humabol
after ng plebisito.
THE
CHAIRMAN
itanong lamang.
(SEN.MARCOS).
Yes.
May
mechanism,
I will just let you finish everything youre saying
tapos maybe the OPAPP can give us some guidance on this. But it is
very clear that with the 10 percent vote of qualified voters and the
resolutions from the sangunian they can opt to have a plebiscite to
decide whether or not to be included in Bangsamoro. That is the very
clear mechanism that is laid out both in the agreement and in the draft
bill.
Yes.
MS. MENDOZA.
Iyong problema talaga namin, kasi may 39
barangays kami. Saan sila mapupunta? Kaya nga ang nangunguna sa

consultation iyong aming ABC president si Maam Dulia Sultan at iyong
chairman ng Committee on Peace.
Sila talaga ang namuno ng
consultation and they are all from the core community because we
wantthe true sentiment will come out. So saan nga--iyong tanong,
saan kami pupunta kapag um-oo kami?
Kaya nga pinut (put) in
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writing namin dahil hindi nga ito siya nasagot noong nandoon iyong
ilang miyembro ng panel noong January.
Kaya ito ngayon, sinulat
namin. Sabi namin, Maam, i-put in writing na lang namin iyong hindi
ninyo masagot.
Sabi niya, Sige para maguide-an ang miyembro ng
OPAPP, ang Senado at ang House of Representatives.

And lastly, on the issue of ancestral domain.
Mayroon kaming
tribe people. More than 10 percent sa North Cot ay tribe people. Sa

Bangsamoro na setup, co-equal sila, subservient sila.
clarification here.
We want
Tapos ano iyong ancestral domain na iyon as
against doon sa vested rights?
Kasi tapos na iyong nangyayari sa
Zamboanga, mayroon kaming mga nireresolbang konplikto kagaya

kahapon.
Minsan may away sa lupa, MI-MI, MI-MN, Muslim-Lumad,
Muslim-Christian,
Christian-Christian.
Kasi
nagkakaroon
ng
misunderstanding na kapag Bangsamoro na, iyong lupa magiging

kanila. We have pockets of rido. I am just glad that the military, the
PNP, and all the leaders or North Cot, together with our mayors, we
dont go to media anymore. We just do our share how to reconcile and
let people understand na kapag may titulo, kailangang respetuhin
unless ibebenta niya ulit.
Kung nagkaroon ng fraudulent acquisition
doon sa lupa at namali iyong pagtitulo, magka-cancellation ng title.

Kung okay ka naman dahil nag-amicable kayo, magko-confirmation of
sale kami. Or kung hindi talaga, magre-resurvey kami at mag-i-issue
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ng mga titulo.
So ito iyong mga intervention pero mayroong mga
pockets of situations that we are seriously handling para hindi na-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
Okay.
Thank you.
Mayroon ka pa bang points that you wanted to raise?

MS. MENDOZA.
Iyon lang at idadagdag ko na lang na kung
matuloy man iyongmagkaroon na ng plebisito para sigurado iyong

sentimyento ng 39 barangays namin na ma-manifest nila, we want a
military presence in all 39 barangays.
We want the military to secure
iyong mga botante na magye-yes or no/smv
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MS. MENDOZA.
na mag-yes or no para wala nang mga
kutso-kutso(?) ba pa, magkaroon ng transparency.
Ano ba talaga ang
kanilang gusto?
So I will submit to the Senate the resolution as adopted last
March 11--approved by the sangguniang panlalawigan as of March 11,
2013 and submitted to OPAPP right away, to the Senate and to the
House.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very well. I think at this
point siguro bago natin palagpasin iyong mga puntos na ni-raise ni
Governor Lala, maybe we can ask OPAPP, their representative, Atty.
Mohammed Al-Amin Julkipli to answer the points.
by one.
Lets take them one
There is the question again--because of the 39 separate
barangays that are non-contiguous, there are several questions. The

governor raised one in that how is the administration of those etcetera,
etcetera. I would like to add another one because those 39 barangays
were chosen to be included during the plebiscite because they voted to
join ARMM. But because they were not contiguous, they were not
allowed to join ARMM.
Why is it different now with Bangsamoro?
Because even if the plebiscite wins in those 39 barangays, theyre still

non-contiguous and on the basis of what happened in the ARMM
situation, they were not included in the ARMM.
Why are they now
allowed to be included? What changed? What is the difference?

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MR. JULKIPLI.
With the indulgence of the Chairpersons,
Senator Bongbong and Senator TG.

On that question po with regard to what happened during the
plebiscite and how the treatment of the votes for affirmativeduring
the 2001 plebiscite. The difference po with that case and what were
doing in the proposed BBL is, during the 2001 plebiscite under 9054
ang reckoning po kasi ng affirmative votes for inclusion were at the
provincial level. And therefore even if individual barangays nanalo but
counted against the whole province, iyong province po iyong ika-count.
So ganoon iyong case in North Cotabato that in 2001, majority of the
votes in the province voted for no except for these packets na
barangay levels. And when we were doing the negotiations, one of the
principal
considerations
for
determining
what
areas
should
be
considered for the first plebiscite was giving expression to the consent
of the governed. And in 2001, it was considered that at least in these
specific barangays, there have been expressions of consent to be part
of an autonomous region except that the legal framework then did not
allow them. And when we were evaluating that position, we looked at
the Constitution
To give us some historical
perspective, why were they not allowed then to join the ARMM, what
were the reasons?
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MR. JULKIPLI.
Kasi po the province itself voted no.
So
counted against the vote of the province, the yes votes from these
individual barangays lost. So hindi po sila nakasali.
Kasi po under the
2001 law, hindi po pwede ang barangay level na sumali in an

autonomous region.
And in this proposed BBL, we are proposing na
even at the level of the barangay, i-allow po silang mag-join sa isang

autonomous region.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Why?
The basis for that po is Article X, Section 15
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Wait, to go back.
Lets go
deeper into the question, not the law. But what is the reason for them
not being allowed in the creation of the ARMM in the previous law?
What were the reasons that they were not allowed to be part?
would imagine it has something to do with the administration,

something to do with the province that they will be under, etcetera.
Why is it different now?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Principally, po ang consideration natin before
was the provision of 9054 itself. So the ARMM law itself provided that
for inclusion kailangan po province.
So therefore at the level of the
law itself pa lang hindi na na-allow iyong individual
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But during the briefing in
Manila before the Senate, it was also per province for the Bangsamoro
region.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So why is it different? Why

will they be allowed to join now?
Because the reasons for them not
being allowed to join still maintain and so how is it that they are now
being allowed whereas before they were not allowed?
MR. JULKIPLI. Well, just for reference po under the proposed
BBL, magkaiba po iyong treatment natin sa core ARMM geographic
areas at present. So sa counting po sa present ARMM areas, provincewide. But for other areas like the six municipalities in Lanao Norte and
the 39 barangays, hindi po sila by province, by municipality and by
barangay.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Again, why when it was not
allowed before, why is it being allowed now?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Kasi po, iyon po as I have said earlier, the
guidance was asking again the people who voted before for inclusion if
they still wanted to be included now.
And iyong impediment po nila
before-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
Well, you know, we are
leading to the question that the governor brought up is how do you

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administer them?
For example, if some of the 39 barangays
eventually vote to join, how will they be administered? Do they still

belong to the same province? Do they still belong to the same cities
because we are talking of same towns?
Sino ang kanilang superior
sanggunian? Sino ang kanilang superior LGU?

MR. JULKIPLI. Sir, ang operative effect po ng vote nila in the
plebiscite would be for them to be constituted as independent LGUs na
po.
Even as geographic areas.

So are we saying that
its possible that we have islands ofits surrounded by the province of

North Cotabato then you have an island that island barangay that is
Bangsamoro?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, sir, ganoon po ang--may mga enclaves na
parang nakahiwalay from the mother unit.

Dont you think there
are some administrative issues and problems that will crop up when
you have that situation?
MR. JULKIPLI. Well, yes, sir, we recognize that there will be
administrative difficulties.
In fact, marami po talagang problems with
respect to local administration that will really have to be clarified. But

with respect to the effect ng kanilang vote, well, at least on our part, it
should be part of the decision-making during the plebiscite that part of
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the decisions that they should be able to make is the consideration of

the local administration problems or issues that might crop up as a
result of that vote.
In other words, its not enough for them to just
decide that they want to join the autonomous region, they also have to
consider that the operative effect of their vote would be their
separation from their mother unit and that they will be an isolated part
from the main region and all of these complications.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. But nevertheless the
vote is in, they understand what they are voting for and what the
implications of one vote or the other are.
Pag nanalo pa rin ang
Bangsamorosumama pa rin sila sa Bangsamoro, the question still

remain, how will they be administered? To put it back in the words of
the governor, saan sila? Nasaan sila? Sa ilalim pa rin sila ng parehong
probinsiya o iba na ang probinsiya nila? Again, kasi barangay sila, iba
na ba ang bayan nila? Anong mangyayari sa kanila?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Bale po as provided in our agreements with the
BBL, they will be under the administration of the regional government

who will have the competence to organize their own local government
units.
So upon the enactment of the parliament, pwede po silang
i-organize into an LGU, pwede po silang masailalim sa nearest

municipality or however the parliament wishes to reconfigure these
areas. And then iyong
42

RJOrtiz
II-2
October 8, 2014
10:53 a.m.
7
Is it possible that they will
be put under a town that is within the Bangsamoro area and therefore
non-contiguous with that barangay?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Opo.

during the hearing.
Its a question that I raised
Again, our local government instincts are coming
out and we were trying to figure outwe have to assess really what
will be the effect of that and see if it is a practicable solution to have
islands. Im looking for the map that was given us by OPAPP during
our/rjo
43

M.R. CATADMAN III-2
October 8, 2014
11:03 a.m.
1
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). during our briefing para

makita niyo kung ilan iyongiyong 39 barangays actually ang
nakakalat that are away from theAnyway, Attorney, perhaps you can
move on to the other issues that were raised by the governor about
the language wherein another LGU may join Bangsamoro at any time.
And this presents, again, practical problems, as laid out by the
governor. Maybe you can give us some
MR. JULKIPLI.
Actually, at present, we worded po in this
proposed formulation for the BBL iyong at any time has no limit yet
in terms of time. And I think according also to suggestions and that is
also for their debate later, there might be a suggestion to put some
sort of an interval or a time limit, pero just to respond po doon sa
clarity issue, as of now, iyong at any time, po is still not defined. So,
therefore, we understand it as at any time. Opo. So as of now, wala
po siyang time frame or time interval, so its still open. And, anyway,
iyong suggestions naman po should be duly taken if its practicable and
feasible to put an interval or a time frame kasi as of now wala pa po
iyong at any time.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). The OPAPP is open to an
amendment in that regard where we could put a time limit.
MR. JULKIPLI. Well, the position naman po is we will always
defer to the collectivism of our legislators in this
44

M.R. CATADMAN III-2
October 8, 2014
11:03 a.m.
2
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS).
Okay, that is something
again that we need to define.

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.
Now, another transition
problem that was raised by Governor Lala is if a province or an LGU

decide to join Bangsamoro later on, what will be the transition
mechanism for the local provincial government to the Bangsamoro
government now?
MR. JULKIPLI. Well, actually
Lets say, two or three
years down the road.

MR. JULKIPLI.
Opo.
So, actually, maam, that should be
addressed by the local government enactment that the Parliament of

the Bangsamoro will make and similar to the provisions on the BTA,
the transition authority thats provided here, dapat in that local
government enactment there should be a provision there respecting
transitioning. For example, for LGUs that will join under the opt-in
provision, there should be a provision in that law that should address
the transition problem.
Otherwise, iyong provision po under the
current Local Government Code, since this is an existing municipality

outside the territory should also apply suppletorily. So, either we have
45

M.R. CATADMAN III-2
October 8, 2014
11:03 a.m.
3
7160 provision with respect to transitioning or the Local Government

Code that the parliament will enact or both po.
R.A. 7160 does not
address the situation wherein an LGU will join an autonomous region.

I think the assumption, when the Local Government Code was written
was it would remain static and would not change.
But we are now
introducing a capacity for changing in the administration. Again, is this

something that was intentionally left open for the Congress to try and
put a more definitive mechanism?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Well, as of now, sir, there is no language for
that in this proposal, so I think that is an opening. But with respect to

the process po when this was negotiated, really, when it comes to
local administration matters po as an exclusive power of the regional
government, ito po ay dapat subject din to the enactment of the
parliament itself.
So, the situation for the opt-in should be
accommodated in that Local Government Code since the mother law or

the BBL provides for it.
And puwede naman pong maglagay ng
definitive arrangement for that so that pag nag-enact na po ang

parliament may guidance sila from the BBL to that effect.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Before we proceed, we just
like to acknowledge the arrival of Dr. Pearlsia Dans, chairperson,
Regional Executive Association of ARMM; Rahman Angwe have two
46

M.R. CATADMAN III-2
October 8, 2014
11:03 a.m.
4
Rahman Adiong, Majority Floor Leader of the Legislative Assembly;

Datu Ramil Dilangalen, who is the deputy governor from Maguindanao,
former mayor of Northern Kabuntalan; and Bai Fatima Sinsuat of the
Philippine Red Cross who has also arrived.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Mr. Chairman, I think there was one issue
about the tribe people and the IP.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Im sorry, the?
MR. JULKIPLI.
About the indigenous people and ancestral
domain po.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). The IPs, okay.
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. I just like to address that so just to clarify
po, maam, when we talk of indigenous peoples, they are absolutely
treated as equals. Like as we have in our present system of laws lahat
naman po tayo ay pantay-pantay. As I said earlier this is not for one
group, this is for everyone.
Actually, in our proposed BBL po, our
brother indigenous peoples have been given the due recognition ng

kanilang special status as minority group. And, therefore, marami po
ditong mga affirmative provisions which favor iyong ating mga IP
brothers. So with respect to, halimbawa, the ancestral lands and their
claims for these territories, lahat po iyan provided din for in our basic
law.
At pag ito po ay na-awardan ng title, this qualifies as vested
47

M.R. CATADMAN III-2
October 8, 2014
11:03 a.m.
5
right.
And under our framework agreement, vested right should be
respected, opo.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Atty. Julkipli, what about
the IPRA? What about the provisions specifically stating that the IPRA
Law shall be respected?
What do you think of that?
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.
Actually, in this proposed formulation for
the proposed basic law, the core principles and guaranties provided in
the IPRA has already been disaggregated and provided in several
provisions here.
So, actually, IPRA itself although the word IPRA
does not appear, iyong kanya naman pong nilalaman have already
been incorporated and integrated in various provisions in this proposed
BBL. And what were doing here is giving enough space for our future
parliament and even the participation itself in that parliament of our
brother IPs, for the formulation and crafting of their own Indigenous
Peoples Law na dapat magte-take off from the basic principles
contained here. So it should be contained in that enactment later also.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you.
Thank you, Governor Mendoza.
Thank you, Attorney, for that quick exchange pero marami pa
siguro iyong mga detalye. It really is in the details that the discussions
have been quite lengthy.
48

M.R. CATADMAN III-2
October 8, 2014
11:03 a.m.
6
I would like to acknowledge again, before we proceed, the arrival

of Dr. Abdulmannan Gayak, the chairman of the Mindanao Alliance for
Peace; Datu Antonio Kinoc, MILF Peace Panel; Rahib Kudto, Member
of the Third Party Monitoring Team; president of UNYPAD.
At this point since the speaker of the Regional Legislative
Assembly has arrived perhaps if hes ready, Speaker Ronnie Sinsuat, if
you would like to give us your thoughts and views on the proposed
Bangsamoro Basic Law.
Thank you, Speaker.
MR. SINSUAT. Maraming salamat. The Honorable Chairman of
this Committee, Senator Marcos, Senator Guingona, at sa aking mga
kasamahan, nandito po si Assemblyman Adiong, Assemblyman Ajihil,
Assemblywoman Ajihil, Assemblywoman Pandi, and Assemblyman
Atty. Gadamra, at sa mga stakeholders, asalaamu alaikum, wa
rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Una po sa lahat ay nais kong ipaabot ang
taos puso naming pasasalamat sa Senate Committee on Local
Government sapagkat kaloobin ito ng panahon sa atin ngayon upang
tayo ay mabigyan ng pagkakataon na ilahad at ipaabot ang ating
pananaw/mrjc
49

BRHGonzales
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October 8, 2014
11:13 a.m.
1
MR. SINSUAT.
ang ating pananaw sa panukalang batas sa
Bangsamoro Basic Law. Ang regional legislative assembly ng ARMM ay

sumusuporta sa panukalang batas na ito.
Our longing for peace in our homeland sees a silver lining upon
the filing of the bill containing the BBL. As a matter of fact, to show
our
sincere
support,
we
have
detailed
our
suggestions
and
recommendations to the BBL which, in our humble opinion, will

enhance or strengthen the proposed law.
The said suggestions and
recommendations are incorporated in our position paper which we

have submitted to this Honorable Committee.
Sa kabuuan po, labis ang aming paghanga sa panukalang batas
na ito na nagsisiguro na sa magandang kinabukasan para sa ating
mamamayan.
Nais ko rin pong samantalahin ang pagkakataong ito
upang manawagan sa lahat na makilahok sa diskusyon upang marinig

po ang bawat sektor ng lipunan. This is our time to do our part as a
proud Bangsamoro.
Maraming-maraming
salamat
po
at
wassalamualaikum
warrahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Maraming salamat,
Speaker Sinsuat.
Nandito sa akin ang inyong position paper. At ang isang issue na
binabanggit ninyo rito ay tungkol nga sa empleyado ng ARMM, kung
50

BRHGonzales
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11:13 a.m.
2
ano ang mangyayari sa mga empleyado ng ARMM.
Will they be
separated from the service, kung sila ba ay will be incorporated into

the?
To give a partial answer to that question, noong itinanong namin
nga ito sa una naming briefingactually, ang naitanong namin ay hindi
tungkol lamang sa empleyado kundi tungkol sa mga ahensyakung
ano ang mangyayari sa mga agencies of government ng ARMM. And
the explanation that was given to us is that the new Bangsamoro
government, the parliament will decide which agencies to keep and
which to abolish and reorganize those agencies that will continue to
exist. Hindi namin naabot iyong kung papaano ang gagawin sa mga
empleyado kung ano ang magiging status nila.
So perhaps we can go back to Atty. Julkipli on that issue. Anong
mangyayari sa mga present na government employees na nasa ilalim
ng
ARMM
pagkatapos
ng
reorganization
by
the
Bangsamoro
Parliament?
Ang tanong siguro is, halimbawa, kung ma-reorganize ang isang
agency, anong mangyayari sa mga empleyado?
Will they maintain
their Civil Service status, they pay grade, etcetera? If the agency is
abolished, ano naman ang mangyayari doon sa mga empleyadong
iyon? I think these are the two key questions na itinatanong ng lahat.
51

BRHGonzales
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October 8, 2014
11:13 a.m.
3
MR. JULKIPLI.
Actually po, kasama na doon sa plan or
transition plan na binubuo ng ARMM regional government ngayon in

partnership with the parties to the peace agreement iyong magiging
treatment po doon sa mga empleyado.
So may binubuo po tayong
transition plan which will include the details of what will happen to the
employees.
Doon po sa ating huling meeting on normalization, na-iron out na
po iyong details for these transition arrangements. So wala pa poAs
of now, hindi pa po naha-hammer down lahat ng details with respect
to how or what will happen to the employees, except that under this
agreement, the central government, meaning, national government,
commits to create transition plan, including iyong mga packages and
iyong due compensation in cases of employees that might be
separated or would opt for early retirement.
But precisely, who will
qualify would still be determined po in a transition plan thats still

being hammered down.
So OPAPP would have
no problems if we make these provisions clear with regard to the

security of tenure of the employees?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Well, opo. Kasi that is anyway an entitlement
of these employees. So if a provision like that would be
52

BRHGonzales
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October 8, 2014
11:13 a.m.
4
And if they are
qualified, they will be retained.

MR. JULKIPLI.
Opo. But what we ask right now is hintayin
lang muna iyong proposals noong transition team, ironing out the
details kasi there is an ongoing consultation process doon po sa mga
employees.
There is a consultation
process with the employees?

MR. JULKIPLI.
Opo. May binubuo po tayong transition team
na ARMM government and

The regional vice
governor is here. Is there a consultation ongoing with OPAPP and the

employees?
MR. LUCMAN.
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
There is an ongoing
consultation between and among the employees of the autonomous

region.
Dapat matapos iyan
before we pass the law so that we can incorporate the agreement in

the law.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Actually, nabuo na po iyong membership
noong team and they are daw in the process of

Kailan kayo matatapos?

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BRHGonzales
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October 8, 2014
11:13 a.m.
5
MR. JULKIPLI.
Unfortunately, wala pa po akong information
kasi nasa initial stages pa po ito.
I think we could ask Deputy ES
Mitmug.
MR. MITMUG.
Atty. Mitmug.
Senator, there will be a first meeting between
GPH, MILF and OPAPP on October 24th and 25th.
One of the issues
would be the employees. Actually, we are trying to reach out to CSC

and CSC-ARMM to provide us with rules and guidelines on how these
things go about and what the employees should receive in instances
when this happen. So its an ongoing process.
We are also talking to, not only ARMM employees as just
employees but we are also talking to associations in ARMM.
For
example, the leadership of the Regional Executive Association of ARMM

which is Asec Dansshe is here.
She would also want to voice out
their concerns as employees. So we are talking to our employees not

just as employees but through their associations as well.
I suggest you finish
that by the end of October para whatever has been agreed upon, we
can include it already in the BBL.
Are there any proposals on
the table already as to how to handle that transition?
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October 8, 2014
11:13 a.m.
6
MR. MITMUG.
Yes, sir.
GPH, MILF and the ARMM would be
meeting once a month and we will be tackling it by topics.
For
example, the first topic would be

Im sorry, did you say,
once a month?
MR. MITMUG.
Once a month.
But this will be at least two
days, the whole day.

Yeah. But October,
November, December, Januaryso you only have three more meetings

this year?
MR. MITMUG.
Senator.
We have been talking for a long time now,
But with the suggestion, we can maybe increase more the
meeting with OPAPP and MILF.

I would suggest that
simply because we are on a very severe time pressure.

MR. MITMUG.
Yes, sir.
Because the proposed
month for the holding of the plebiscite is March. That is what we are
hoping to do but for such a complex question, I dontWhat are the
other issues that you will be discussing?
MR. MITMUG.
First, sir, the issues that are requested to be
discussedInitially, there has been a request in relation to Block

55

BRHGonzales
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October 8, 2014
11:13 a.m.
7
Grant.
They wanted to know what are currently the programs in
ARMM, what are the programs not download in ARMM so that the
Coalition Block Grant can be discussed further. So there would be a
topic for that.
And there would also be issues on frontline services. In case the
law is passed and ratified, what can be done so that the frontline
services that is being delivered in ARMM currently would not be
stopped immediately and it would flow smoothly during the time when
the ARMM is ratified and during the time that the BTA takes the place
of the leadership of the Bangsamorobrhg
56

HSGayapa
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October 8, 2014
11:23 a.m.
1
MR. MITMUG. leadership of the Bangsamoro.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, very well. As you can
imagine, both the ad hoc committee in the House of Representatives
and our committee in the Senate will be very, very interested to know
what are the results of those meetings and I hope that they will
transmit to us immediately whatever subjects are covered as they are
covered.
Huwag na nating antaying matapos lahat.
Halimbawa pag
napag-usapan na ninyo iyong mga empleyado, puwede ninyong

sabihan na kami.
Pagka mayroon na kayong another subject na
natapos, ibigay na ninyo kaagad sa amin.

MR. MITMUG. Yes, Senator.
MR. MITMUG.
Actually our commitment is based on our
statement earlier that as of November we will immediately make

meaningful insights and meaningful updates in relation to ARMM.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. Thank you.
To go down, I have in front of me the position paper of the
Regional Legislative Assembly as summarized by Speaker Sinsuat.
There is also a point that is raised by the Legislative Assembly that the
Bangsamoro Transition Authority would assume office before the
expiration of the term of office. Is that something that we can in fact
57

HSGayapa
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October 8, 2014
11:23 a.m.
2
do because it is enshrined in law that the terms are of a certain length

and we cannot arbitrarily cut them short?
So, again, Attorney, if you would like to explain to us how this is
supposed to work.
MR. JULKIPLI. The reason for allowing the coming of transition
government even ahead of the expiration of an elective term is
because of the abolition of the offices. So, because the ARMM itself is
deemed abolished upon the repeal of this organic law, the terms of
office that comes with the autonomous region are also deemed
abolished and thereforeso that basic services are not hampered and
also to ensure transition, we will install a transition government. So,
that is the reasoning behind that mechanism.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). All right. There is another
point raised by the position paper of the Regional Legislative Assembly
in the question of parliamentary districting and the districts, these will
be altering the boundaries of present congressional districts.
So,
again, are these amendments to the laws that are creating these
districts--how is this supposed to be handled? Because the definition of
many of those districts are actually contained in theno, the definition
of congressional districts is contained in the Constitution. So, maybe
why is this not a constitutional question? It is probably the question
here.
58

HSGayapa
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October 8, 2014
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3
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). And in addition, I would

like to find out why it is appended already to the BBL.
Who drafted
these new districts and what was their basis?

MR. JULKIPLI.
Well, to answer po the first question of the
good senator, first we have to be able to clarify that parliamentary

districts
are
different
from
congressional
districts.
In
fact
congressional representation in the House, hindi po iyan tina-touch ng

ating BBL.
So, to be clear, the
congressional districts will remain?

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). As is?
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Hindi magbabago iyan?
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But the parliamentary
districts will not be the same as the congressional districts.
MR. JULKIPLI. Hindi po. The parliamentary districts are solely
for purposes of representation in parliament.
representation in the House.
districts
only
parliament.
for
It will not affect po
So, we are apportioning parliamentary
parliamentary
district
representatives
in
the
In connection na din po to the question of Senator

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HSGayapa
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October 8, 2014
11:23 a.m.
4
Guingona, actually the appended appendix on districts as the original

appendix or a proposed annex to the original BBL as proposed by the
Transition Commission. So, I think there are members of the TC here
who might be able to enlighten us.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Ah, iyong gumawa iyong
Transition Commission?
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.
MR. LUCMAN. Mr. Chairman, can I?
I just would like to make my comment as a citizen of Lanao del
Sur on the issue of clustering because the municipality of Masiu which
belongs to the congressional district of the first district of Lanao del
Sur was included in another cluster with the number of municipalities
belonging to the second district of Lanao del Sur which happens to be
my area. Im a registered voter of that particular cluster. It seems
that the people of Masiu are denied of their right of suffrage on the
part of the first district of Lanao del Sur. Example, kung may tatakbo
na member of parliament sa cluster na iyon coming from that
municipality
which
is
Masiu
and
then
he
decides
to
run
for
congressman representing the first district of Lanao del Sur, he would

be a stranger to that district since Masiu belongs to the cluster of
municipalities dominated by the second district.
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And secondly, there are three municipalities from the second

district where I came from which were omitted from the clustering of
these political subdivisions.
So, I just would like to be clarified, Mr.
Chairman, if it is merely a clerical error or it was omitted by a

deliberate act by the framers of this provision.
MR. JULKIPLI. Sir, with the indulgence of
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). No, you must address the
Chair just to keep it orderly.
MR. JULKIPLI. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But from the comments of
the Vice Governor, parang ang nagiging problemadahil kung iisipin
natin ang sanggunian panlalawigan may distrito rin.
could be akin to that.
So, maybe it
But the sanggunian follows the congressional
districts. Ang nagkakaproblema yata is iba iyong distrito. Iba iyong

parliamentary district, iba iyong congressional district.
So, that is
going to be a source of confusion, again, in the administration side.

Also, it will be very difficult ifI knew this would be complicated but I
did not think that we would beanyway, bago tayo mabaha, let us
move on quickly. Halimbawa, in the representation of the districts, the
congressman can represent a town in the House that he does not
represent in the parliament.
Do you not see that there might be a
problem there?
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MR. JULKIPLI. Mr. Chairman, actually there are several points

on the annex or appendix on parliamentary districts have already been
raised to us and also we have communicated these to the Transition
Commission.
So, as I said earlier, the appendix that we have now was the
appendix that was proposed much earlier.
So, there has to be
recalibrations
be
and
rethinking
that
has
to
adopted
in
the
apportionment of parliamentary districts. I dont know what status of

that is now with the TC, at the level of the Transition Commission.
Well, as far as OPAPP is concerned, as we have heard the points and
concerns that have been raised with respect to the districts, we are
very much open to start conversations again on how better to do the
districting.
Hindi na po marinig?
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Hindi na kita naririnig.
MR. ADIONG. Mr. Chairman.
Yes, go ahead but
understand that it is difficult to understand because of the rain. But

never mind. Please
MR. ADIONG. Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am
Ziazur Rahman Alonto Adiong, the majority leader of the Regional
Assembly. I would like to comment on the appendix of the basic law
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which is the proposed redistricting in the parliamentary district in the

Bangsamoro.
Mr. Chairman, we understand the intention of the OPAPP, of the
drafter of this bill that they want to have/hsg
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SMVilladiego
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October 8, 2014
11:33 a.m.
1
MR.
ADIONG.
that
they
want
to
have
separate
representation as far as the membership in the parliamentary is

concerned.
That it is not as similar to that of the congressional
districting.
But if we retain the appendix as part and parcel of the
basic law, this would be a classic case of placing the cart ahead of the
horse.
We do believe that the BBL will empower the Bangsamoro
parliamentary to enact their version of their local government code.

And we do believe that as part of respecting the autonomy, which is
yet to be given to the Bangsamoro government, we should also give
them the power and decide among themselves whether they want to
change
the
redistricting
as
far
as
their
membership
of
the
parliamentary is concerned. Meaning to say, Mr. Chairman, we should

not spoon-feed, for example, or preempt the powers that will be
granted to the Bangsamoro parliament. Instead, we should enhance
them and give them power to decide among themselves whether they
want to have redistricting or not. As of now, Mr. Chairman, aside from
creating confusion on the ground, because we believe come elections
time, ang mga barangay po namin sa Lanao del Sur, as what the
regional vice governor stated earlier, magkakatabi-tabi po iyan. If we
arbitrarily change the political boundaries, it would create confusion on
the ground during the election season.
Now, ang sa amin po is to
expedite the passage of this bill, we should retain the status quo.
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Meaning to say, we have a district now.
In our case, we have two
districts in Lanao del Sur, multiple representation. If the bill seeks to

add additional members to fit the required number of 60, for example,
in the parliament, it is easier to just add another one. For example, in
my case, because we are multiple representations, just add two.
In
First District, we add three just to fit for the required number of
members in the parliament but not entirely to change it arbitrarily.
And let the parliament, for example, if once it is already in place, let
the Bangsamoro parliament
to decide among themselves whether
they want to have a redistricting or not.
That is part of the powers
that is granted to them by this BBL because they are empowered to

enact their own local government code.
Thank you.
I think this is a legislative problem because whatrather
administrative problem.
Because what you were saying is that it is
confusing if we change the district boundaries especially at the ground

levelat the grassroots level.
MR. ADIONG. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I am saying that what we
are doing here is not only are we changing, we are adding another
boundary.
There is the parliamentary boundary of the districts and

65

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3
there is the boundary of the congressional district. Just trying to shed

some light, what will be the basis--how will the parliament decide?
What is the guiding principle on the creation of a parliamentary
district? Is it the same as the Constitution that says 250,000 and that
will be a district or will youagain, maybe the number of the MPs
proposed in the parliament, what is that number? Then you will have
to find that number of parliamentary districts, you will have to define
that. So let us start with that. What is the proposed number of MPs?
MR. JULKIPLI.
All right.
Under our proposed Bangsamoro
Basic Law, Mr. Chairman, the number of MPs is set at 60, and 40
percent
of
that
60
is
allocated
and
apportioned
to
district
representatives or district parliamentary members. So therefore, there

are total of 24 seats in that parliament reserved for district
representatives.
Mr. Chairman, if I may be allowed to just respond to some of the
points raised earlier. Actually po there is a provision in our proposed
BBL about redistricting, precisely allowing parliament to determine on
their own later how the apportionment of parliamentary districts
should be and the guidance provided here is that each district should
be based on population and geographic area. This is in Section 8 of
Article VII of our proposed BBL. And so let me just continue reading,
shall be apportioned based on population and geographical area
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provided that each district shall comprise, as far as practicable,

contiguous compact and adjacent territory and should have at least
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I am sorry, what part? This
is your reading from the draft law?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Proposed BBL.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Could you tell us where you

are? What section are you?
MR. JULKIPLI. Section 8, Article VII.
Section 8.
What page is
that?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Article VII on the Bangsamoro government.
Page 30, sir, of Senate Bill 2408. Page 30 po. Page 30, that is Section
8, Page 33. First line ng Page 33.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. Section 8. Yes.
MR. JULKIPLI. On redistricting. So there is a provision in our
proposed
law
that
allows
the
parliament
to
reconstitute
the
parliamentary districts. And also, Mr. Chair, again as I said earlier, I

think hindi po narinig because of the storm, we have received several
concerns with respect to the attachment or appendix on redistricting.
In fact, as mentioned also, there have been municipalities and
barangays na na-omit in that redistricting which I think was a result of
oversight.
And clearly, therefore, mayroon pong need to revisit the

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appendix on redistricting and really think thoroughly on how to do it

and at this point we are open to discuss further how to do the initial
redistricting for the first parliament. And just to connect for the later
years, there is a provision here that precisely allows parliament to do
further redistricting later.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I do not see here unlike in
the Constitution wherein it has a limit to the number of districts.
Maybe you can point out if there is such awhat is specified here is
the
percentages.
District
seats
will
be
40
percent,
party
representatives, 50 and sectoral representatives here 10 percent.

There is no indication as to how many members there will be. Do we
have, again, some guidance on that?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
For the first parliament,
there will be 24 district representatives because the first parliament as

provided in this proposed BBL will be 60 and 40 percent
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Where does it say 60?
MR. JULKIPLI. In Section 4 po. That is on Page 30, line 26,
Mr. Chairman.
The Parliament shall be composed of at least sixty
(60) members, unless otherwise provided by the Parliament.

THE
CHAIRMAN
(SEN.
MARCOS).
Okay.
Section
4,
Composition--BBL code has six members.

MR. JULKIPLI. Yes, Mr. Chair.
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Very well.
There is no
limit.
MR. JULKIPLI. There is no limit.
You can create new
district, parliamentary district?

MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, sir.
Provided that it complies with the
percentage requirements here.

Okay.
How will the
boundary limits be decided of each district?

MR. JULKIPLI. Supposedly, Mr. Chair, that should be decided
by the parliament because they are given the power here to
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But what will be the basis?
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. That is in Section 8 po.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Section 8.
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. On Page 3433, Mr. Chair. On Page 33,
Section 8.
I am reading in the second paragraph, Mr. Chair.
For
purposes of redistricting, parliamentary district shall be apportioned

based on population/smv
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1
MR. JULKIPLI.
based on population and geographical area,
and that each district shall comprise as far as practicable, contiguous,

compact and adjacent territories; and should have at least a
population of 100,000.
So it is a similar
mechanism to what they do with congressional districts?

MR. JULKIPLI.
Opo, Mr. Chair.
But we have to examine
very closely this idea that we are not moving district boundaries but
we are creating new boundaries.
And if there are going to be 24 new
districts, then many of the affected areas will have essentiallythere is

a possibility that the borders will be crossed.
parliamentary
district
congressional districts?
to
encompass
Is it possible for one
towns
from
two
different
If two districts, congressional, pwede bangit
will probably happen, right?

MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair, that would happen.
That the parliamentary
district will contain towns that belong to two different congressional

districts?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair, that is a possibility.
Thats where the confusion
arises. Because again to go back to my example of the sanggunian,

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the board members follow the congressional districts. But in this case,
I was trying to think about it in terms of that what will behow we will
handle it.
Again, this is something that will bare a lot more discussion
as to the mechanism on howwhen the parliamentary districts are

created, how is it going to be administered. So every resident will have
two, a district congressman and a parliamentary district MP.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair.
Okay.
At this point I
would like to call on Datu Khadafy Blao, the Vice President for External
Affairs of the Bangsamoro Sharia Lawyers League of the Philippines.
So, Datu Khadafy Blao, you have the floor.
MR. BLAO.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim Assalamu Alalikum Wa Rahmatullahi

Wa Barakatuh.
First of all, we the Bangsamoro Sharia Lawyers League of the
Philippines are happy that we are invited for this very important
occasion as we see as our future for the Bangsamoro, especially the
Moro people.
First, we have some points in regard to the Bangsamoro judicial
system.
In fact, we have already prepared our manifest of support
from our league which we can recommend for this Honorable
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Committee for further study on regard to this proposed Bangsamoro

Basic Law.
If you may, I would like to read or pass to the Committeeto the
secretary our manifest, if you may.
Perhaps before you do
maybe you could read it into the record.

MR. BLAO.
For the record, I will make it short. For the record,
the Bangsamoro Lawyers League of the Philippines Incorporated

manifest
of
support
stands
for
the
immediate
enactment
of
The members of the Bangsamoro Sharia
Lawyers League of the Philippines Incorporated express their stand

and full support to the immediate entrenchment of envisioned
Bangsamoro and transition authority as necessary step towards the
establishment of the regular Bangsamoro government consistent with
the provisions of the entire peace agreements entered into by the
government of the Philippines and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front
referred to as the parties to the 17 years of peace negotiation.
No. (1).
The Bangsamoro Sharia Lawyers League strongly
appeal to both Houses of Congress to facilitate enactment of the

Bangsamoro
Basic Law
and thereby empower
the
Bangsamoro
parliament to enact the Bangsamoro, the Local Government Code, the

Civil Code, the Administrative Code, Electoral Code, Civil Service Code,
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Tax, Labor, Penal Code and other special laws to be applied by the
Sharia court judges for cases involving Muslims without prejudice to
the application by the existing regional trial courts of the Philippine
laws for cases involving Christian-settlers residing within the proposed
Bangsamoro territory.
No. (2). The league also requests both the Senate and the House
of Representatives to act positively on the proposed plan to strengthen
the Sharia courts in Muslim dominated provinces in Mindanao and to
expand their jurisdiction over cases so that courts shall not be confined
to the application of PD 1083 or known as the Code of Muslim
Personal Laws.
jurisdiction over
And authorize, under the Basic Law, to assume

criminal, commercial, civil,
labor, political and
administrative cases also involving parties who are Muslims and other
concerns as being provided in the Bangsamoro Basic Law.
No.
(3). The Sharia high court may be empowered and
authorized whenever necessarily to conduct Sharia bar examination

within the Bangsamoro territory in coordination with the Supreme
Court and the National Commission for Muslim Filipinos and utilizing
contingency funds to be appropriated by the central government and
the Bangsamoro government in order to lessen the financial problems
and difficulties that may be confronted by the features of the
examinees.
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No. (4). The existing Sharia district courts must be authorized

under the Basic Law to grant a notarial commission to qualified Sharia
councilors, lawyers who are graduated at least regular course or the
same from state universities or colleges.
And to be brought about
oral mode of disposition and conveyance of real properties as existing

practice in rural communities in the ARMM due to the absent of the
notary public in such rural communities while all regular lawyers do not
reside in the said communities.
In fact, they opt to reside
permanently and establish notarial law, offices in urban areas such as

Cotabato City, General Santos, Marawi, Zamboanga, Pagadian and
Davao City.
Lastly,
the
Bangsamoro
Sharia
Lawyers
League
of
the
Philippines finally speaks thanks and gratitude to the Honorable

Senator Bongbong Marcos, the Senate Committee Chairman, Local
Government; and the Honorable Teofisto Guingona, Senate Blue
Ribbon Committee and the Committee on Peace, Unification and
Reconciliation for having conducted hearing/consultation in the local
level in connection with the proposed Bangsamoro Basic Law known to
be House Bill No. 4994 and the Senate Bill No. 2408 which is now
pending both in the House and the Senate for deliberation and for
enactment.
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We have full trust with your favorable action leading to end, once
and for all, for the century old armed conflict in the south.
Assalamu Alalikum Wa Rahmatullah.
Thank you very much,
Your Honor.
Thank you, Datu Blao, for
your position.
Thank you.
Yes, I quickly just scanned it because mahirap--
okay, thank you for that, Datu Blao.
These are specific proposals
especially on the application of Sharia law in the Bangsamoro area.

So now we move on to Mr. Rahib Payapat, the Chairman of the
Bangsamoro/rjo
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M.R. CATADMAN III-3
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the chairman of the
Bangsamoro Youth Leaders Forum. You have submitted a position

paper but, again, for the record, please state at least the highlights of
that position paper.
MR. PAYAPAT. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Bismillahir
Rahmanir
Raheem.
Assalamu
alaikum,
wa
rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
First of all, Mr. Chairman, accept my respect and courtesy.
The
honorable
members
of
the
Senate,
Republic
of
the
Philippines, on behalf of the Bangsamoro Youth Leaders Forum, BMYLF,

we would like to register our full support to the Bangsamoro Basic Law
submitted by the President last September 10, 2014.
Mr. Chairman, we firmly believe that the enactment of BBL shall
give way to the establishment of the Bangsamoro government and the
opportunity for our people to live in justice, dignity and prosperity in
this part of the country.
Mr. Chairman, we therefore call on the leadership of the Senate
and the entire people in this country to support and rally behind the
We would like to also call on the leadership of the Senate to
enact a basic law with full conformity to the GPH-MILF comprehensive
agreement on the Bangsamoro. We completely believe, Mr. Chairman,
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that a watered-down, again, that a watered-down BBL is not only risk

but also unacceptable to our people.
Mr. Chairman, finally, we would like to ask the Senate, your
Committee in particular, to fast track the enactment of the basic law
so that well have an ample time, the BMYLF will have an ample time
to
legislate
laws
necessary
for
the
institutionalization
of
the
Bangsamoro new political entity.

Mr. Chairman, again, I readily submitted our position paper. To
summarize, we would like to register in this hearing the full support of
the Bangsamoro Youth Leaders Forum to the proposed Bangsamoro
Basic Law submitted by the President in the Senate.
Thank you so much.
Mabuhay tayong lahat.
Assalamu alaikum, wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Mr. Payapat.
You make the point that it is the desire--it is your position and
you used the language that we should enact the BBL with full
conformity to the GPH-MILF Comprehensive Agreement with the
Bangsamoro signed on January 25. And you are careful to say that a
watered-down system will not succeed.
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What would be your definition of full conformity? Or what will

your definition be of watered-down? How far, in your opinion, can
Congress go in amending the provisions of the proposed BBL?
MR. PAYAPAT. First of all, Mr. Chairman, this BBL is the result
of more than 17 years of negotiation between the GPH and the MILF,
and
the
expression
Comprehensive
of
the
Agreement
Bangasmoro
on
the
Bangsamoro
people
for
freedom
and
is
an
self-
determination. So, we do not want to repeat the history of the past,

Mr. Chairman, wherein after legislating a law which is supposedly to
resolve a conflict like the Bangsamoro ay babalik tayo ulit, meaning,
there will be recurrence of another conflict.
In fact, we the
Bangsamoro youth wants to resolve this issue once and for all. Ayaw
namin na sa aming generation ay another age of conflict na naman.
We do not want na sa aming generation there will be another
negotiation, and there will be another promulgation of laws and to
resolve this conflict. Thats what we mean, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). As a practical matter, what
do you think we can change, and what do you think we cannot in the
agreement? It is a long and very complicated proposed law, and the
function of Congress in these hearings is to fine-tune any draft bill or
proposed law. And generally speaking, we in Congress have very few
limits as to what we can amend in any proposed law. However, as is
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mentioned in your position paper there is a comprehensive agreement

between the MILF and the government of the Philippines. So, is it in
your view necessary that we arepresumably the BBL, as proposed, is
in your view in conformity with that agreement?
MR. PAYAPAT. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Okay, so again that puts
some limitations on Congress as to how much they can do in terms of

amending, and adding, and removing provisions from the BBL.
But
presumably the reason thats why you still have a hearing is so that we
can see if there are possible amendments to the BBL.
Again, on what subjects in your view will it be acceptable for
Congress to amend, or to add, or to subtract from the proposed BBL,
as written now?
MR. PAYAPAT. If you ask me, Mr. Chairman, I think instead of
subtracting the provision of the draft BBL, I would like to ask the
Senate to enhance it further.
Meaning, to add more so that the
Bangsamoro will be satisfied on this proposed Bangsamoro Basic Law.

was really in the form of guidance.
Very well.
The question
Because, again, this is very
unusual for us to be constrained to a certain degree by a previous

agreement which if we stray very far from, then the agreement
becomes null and void.
Because that is generally the scope of

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amendment that is allowed us is very wide, and again there are very
few limitations to our normal conduct of hearing and amendments, and
debates on different bills.
That is why we are always asking for
guidance on how far we can change the proposed bill. In any case that
is again a question that will have to be more thoroughly answered
perhaps in the subsequent hearings.
At this point, I am in receipt of a resolution from the Regional
Executives Association, ARMM, on the proposed BBL, and we have the
chairperson of the Regional Executives Association of ARMM in Dr.
Pearlsia Dans.
Dr. Dans, perhaps we could hear from you to explain the
resolution that you have made and that you have passed on to the
Committee.
Dr. Dans, please.
MS. DANS. Thank you, Honorable Chair. We have the/mrjc
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MS. DANS.
We have the resolution of the Regional Executives
Association of the ARMM.

And I am Sharifa Pearlsia Dans, the assistant secretary and
concurrent OIC regional secretary of the DILG-ARMM.
We have met Mr. Senator in Jolo, in the public hearing.
And we would like to put forth the hopes and aspirations of the
more than 33,000 ARMM workforce whose lives will be turned upside
down with the establishment of the Bangsamoro government. For the
record, we would like to express our support to the BBL and the peace
agreement of the government and the MILF notwithstanding that we
would like to put forward the aspirations of the ARMM workforce.
So we say, Whereas, the permanent officers and employees of
the ARMM are entitled to the security of tenure as guaranteed by the
Philippine Constitution and Civil Service rules and regulations;
Whereas, in the light of the existing discrimination against
ARMM, the difficulty of finding employment elsewhere looms over the
officers and employees of the ARMM;
Whereas, the non-employment of the officers and employees
would cause considerable economic hardship for them and their
families and will ultimately affect the whole region.
The question that we would like to raise to the Honorable
Members of this Committee, sir, is this: What will happen to the more
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than 33,000 ARMM workforce with permanent appointments and the

rest on contract while you have just approved the ARMM budget for
2015 in the amount of 25 billion to be transferred to the Bangsamoro
transition authority?
This ARMM budget was prepared and approved
by Congress and I suppose it consists of the salaries of the ARMM

personnel, the MOOE
and the capital outlay.
Also, we would like to put forward the continuity of the giving of

employment services, the provision for the safeguard and the
protection of the government properties, office buildings, other assets,
equipment, various government financial and personnel records and
data of respective department agencies at the regional level, at the
provincial and at the municipal level. We are talking of schools set in
five provinces, two cities and 116 LGUs.
Not only that, we are also
talking about all of the people and the employees of the ARMM in these
areas.
So we would like to propose for a more humane hiring and
rehiring policy of the ARMM executives and employees given the
discrimination against the ARMM. And in the event that the hiring or
the rehiring is mandated, the following order of priority shall include
the hiring first of the permanent and qualified personnel, the holders of
career executive service eligibility and career service executive
eligibility who are qualified for the positions, the executives and
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employees who have not reached the minimum 15 years creditable

service and who have not reached the retirement age so that they may
still complete the requirements under the retirement law and be
qualified to enjoy the benefits of the said law. Fourth is the temporary
personnel who are also qualified for the positions and the casual
personnel who are qualified for the positions.
We also would like to propose for the observance of the
retirement laws for those who will qualify to be retired and for the
adoption of a fair and reasonable separation incentive gratuity pay.
We have just also written the GSIS for the updating of all the
personnel service records of the more than 33,000 employees of the
ARMM.
And last, but not the least, the standardization of position items
and salary grades of certain positions so that they will be dovetailed
with the positions at the municipal level.
We are talking of the
department heads in all the LGUs.

That is in my capacity as chairperson of the Regional Executives
Association of the ARMM.
Allow me now to address the Honorable Chair in my position as
the assistant secretary and the officer in charge, regional secretary of
the DILG.
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There is a saying that the sin of omission is worse than the sin of
commission. What we fail to do when we are duty-bound by law to do
so.
We would like to request the Honorable Chair and the senators
involved here to capture the issues concerning the 12 LGUs in the
ARMM that do not have the internal revenue allotment and the 58
barangays that were approved by the regional legislative assembly.
This is now the time to be able to capture that. What would happen to
these non-IRA LGUs and barangays? We hope we were not consulted
when this BBL was made so that it was never factored in.
And so as officer in charge of the DILG, I feel that it is high time
for this Honorable Body to factor this in so that once and for all, we
would be able to address the issues concerning the non-IRA LGUs of
the ARMM. There are eight in Maguindanao and four from Basilan and
58 barangays out of the 2,490 barangays in the ARMM.
Thats all, Mr. Chair.
So, Dr. Dans, these are all
barangays?
MS. DANS.
We have 58 barangays and 12 LGUs, Mr. Chair.
Im sorrywhat kind of
LGUs? Are they municipalities?

MS. DANS.
Municipalities.
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MS. DANS.
Okay.
They were created by the regional legislative
assembly.
MS. DANS.
Understood.
And all of these LGUs have elected officials.
But as is the mechanism in
other local governments, this is akin to barangays, for example, being

created by a sanggunian which are also non-IRA and they are not
recognized by the DBM as part of the IRA computation of the
barangays.
MS. DANS.
Yes.
So is this the same
situation that is happening, these are non-IRA but they were created
by the ARMM?
MS. DANS.
By the regional legislative assembly.
Therefore, what is the
mechanism in the ARMM? Because in the Local Government Code, the

sanggunian-created barangays will be funded by the sanggunian that
created it.
Is that not a similar situation to the barangays and the
municipalities where the legislative assembly or the ARMM government

will be the oneSince the legislature of the ARMM government was the
body that created it, would they not be the one to provide also the
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funding of the different LGUs that were created by the legislative

assembly?
MS. DANS.
Supposed to be. But the DBMs contention is that
insofar as the LGUs creation are concerned, the criteria, the

requirements on the land, income and the population do not conform
to the 7160 of the Local Government Codebrhg
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MS. DANS. Local Government Code, the population has been

reduced. But in the case of Tipo-Tipo municipality which has an IRA of
10 million, the mother municipality Tipo-Tipo was given 6 million--of
the 10 million was given 6 million and Al-Barka which is the daughter
municipality which is supposed to get 4 million did not get it at all. So,
what happened to the 4 million? While the mother got 6 million, the
daughter did not get anything at all. So, I think this is where we would
like to place it, sir, to put it into the proper context.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But, again, the DBM when
an LGU is created, divided, separated is not done by an act of
Congress, then it is the sanggunian that created the barangay that will
provide the funding for the new barangay.
The old barangay which
was already created by act of Congress by recognition over the years

isthe barangays that are created by acts of Congress are provided
IRA but those that are not created by act of Congress are not provided
IRA by the national government.
So, again, the source of the LGUs
created by the regional legislative assembly, where is the funding

supposed to come from?
MS. DANS.
I think the members of the Regional Legislative
Assembly are here. Speaker Sinsuat is here and I think they are in a
better position to answer that.
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Well, would the speaker
care to reply?
MR. ADIONG. Mr. Chairman, I would like to speak in behalf of
the speaker.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes, I know. Very well.
MR. ADIONG. In the organic law, this is the Republic Act 9054,
the Regional Legislative Assembly is empowered to combine, create
and divide barangays and municipalities. We have our own version of
the Local Government Code which is MMA Act 25. This will now give
credence to the idea that the Regional Assembly is entitled to create
barangay or municipalities. Now, in our version of Local Government
Code which is MMA 25 it is different from that of the requirement set
by the Local Government Code passed by Congress in such a way that
the population requirement and the land area is reduced.
Now, the
Regional Assembly, every time the Regional Assembly pass a measure,

it is treated as a bill, as an act, as a law. The observation of the good
chairman with regard to the passing of ordinances by the sanggunian
panlungsod or panlalawigan, this is not different from that of the
regional assembly because every time we pass a resolution or a legal
measure, it is treated as a law. And therefore since the Republic Act
9054, this is an organic act, it cannot be repealed without the
ratification of the people and it is part and parcel of the Constitution.
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So we believe organic act should give precedence over that of a special

law and the treatment of the power of the Regional Assembly as far as
its connection with the Republic Act, the DBM should at least treat us
similarly with that of Congress because it is stated that once we divide
and create a municipality, it should be DBM that would finance the
necessary administrative financial requirements of the barangays and
as well as any municipalities created by the Regional Assembly. And
its not their grey area because according to DBM, they will not be
dictated by MMA 25.
They will go with what the Local Government
Code passed by Congress dictates, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, there is no provision for
the funding of the new LGU as created by the Regional Legislative
Assembly?
MS. DANS. None.
MR. ADIONG. None, Mr. Chairman. It is already implied in the
organic law because our basis is the organic law, 9054.
I know, I understand.
What I am asking is in the organic law, what is the provision for

funding of the newly created LGUs created by the Legislative
Assembly?
89

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MR. ADIONG. I think it should be implied, Mr. Chairman. Since

the DBM is the one who handles the financing of the LGUs, it should be
the DBM in this case.
But the DBM will not
recognize.
MR. ADIONG. I think so, yes, Mr. Chairman, because as what
the executive director stated earlier, there are about I think 59
barangays created all over the region that had not yet been provided
with IRA.
So, what has been
happening in the years since the creation of these LGUs? Bastat

walang funding.
MR. ADIONG. What they do, Mr. Chairman, is they try to settle
that in the municipal level or in the provincial levelThis is just a
guess, Mr. Chairman, some barangays the IRA are being divided by the
mother barangay and the newly created barangay where the barangay
was being slashed from. So, that is the settlement, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very well. Yes, you know,
you do not have the
MR. MITMUG.
Yes, sir.
Atty. Rasol Mitmug Jr. po of the
Executive Secretarys Office, Assistant Executive Secretary for the

Office of the Regional Governor
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Maybe you can draw some

light on all of these.
MR. MITMUG. Yes, sir.
Sir, I would just like to clarify regarding the issues on non-IRA
barangays. Despite the explanation with our good colleagues from the
Regional Legislative Assembly, as provided by 9054, considering that
there is no longer funding coming from the DBM, what the Regional
Legislative Assembly did for this year is to provide the non-IRA
barangays with the funding of 500,000 a month.
So, that is P72
million for the whole year for this year of 2014. So, despite the nonsupport of the DBM, there is already support coming from the Regional
Legislative Assembly for this year. And I think next year there will also
be that provision.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Uniform iyan lahat?
MR. MITMUG. Yes, sir, for the meantime.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). How much?
MR. MITMUG. Five hundred thousand a month. So, that is 72
million a year.
Five hundred thousand a
month.
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MR. MITMUG. Yes, sir, a month because unfortunately, sir, the

local funds of the region is not that big.
So, we are trying toper
municipality, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Per municipality.
MR. MITMUG.
Yes, sir, per municipality.
We are providing
them with 500,000 a month support.

THE
CHAIRMAN
(SEN.
MARCOS).
These
are
the
municipalities that were created by the Regional Assembly.

MR. MITMUG. Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). What about the barangays?
MR. MITMUG.
The barangays, we dont currently have any
provisions but we are working on it, sir.

So, all the municipalities
receive an annual budget of P6 million.

MR. MITMUG. Yes, sir, a year.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And the barangays, again
MR. MITMUG. There is no provision for the local fund as of
So, what has been
happening in the past years they are not receiving any funding?
MR. MITMUG. Previously the DBM was providing these non-IRA
barangays with support but there was a certain period in time when
they stopped providing the support, sir. So, that was the moment in
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time where ARMM under the administration of the regional governor

Mujiv Hataman and of Speaker Ronnie Sinsuat started to provide these
municipalities with support, sir. And considering the talks in relation to
transition, the question has already been put forth between GPH and
MILF. So, that is also one of those issues that will be tackled by the
transition committee between GPH, ARMM and that of MILF.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And the proposal is that the
bodies, the LGUs that have been created by the Regional Assembly will
be included in, what, the national IRA or in the budget of the
Bangsamoro?
MR. MITMUG.
I think in the budget of the Bangsamoro, sir,
because it will already be a block grant. And accordingly on the BBL,

there is a provision that MMA 25, the provision that was used to create
the municipalities is still present in the BBL.
So, those non-IRA
barangays and non-IRA municipalities will continue to exist in the

Bangsamoro.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very well. To return to Dr.
DansYour suggestion is that these LGUs created by the Regional
Assembly be included in the DBM calculation for IRA?
MS. DANS. Yes, it should be captured in the Bangsamoro Basic
Law so that once and for all we will resolve because we in the
DILG/hsg
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MS. DANS. in the DILG, we find it difficult to impress on them

governance when there is no money to talk about. What governance
can we exact from them when they dont have? The case of Tipo-Tipo
alone is an example of this. From an original 10 million, the mother
municipality got six million and the daughter municipality got nothing.
So where did the four million go? I mean, to us in the DILG, we are
local government practitioner, we would like to make all of these
LGUs that governance is the core of their creation. But we cannot do
that for as long as they are not given the support. And we would like
that the BBL, through your intercession, Mr. Chair, because you are
Local Government Committee Chair, we hope that this will be
captured.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). What is your view on the
suggestion that in theI suppose that in the transitional period or the
transitional mechanism that this be included under the Bangsamoro
governments budget and it will be derived from the Bangsamoro
governments budget rather from the IRA calculation?
MS. DANS. Well, personally, if you really think about that, then
that would be a diversion because all the other LGUs get their internal
revenue allotment separate. We also have a problem here. The LGUs
from the island provinces of Sulu, Basilan and Tawi-Tawi get their IRA
from
the
Department
of
Budget
and
Management
situated
in
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2
Zamboanga while the LGUs from Maguindanao and Lanao, they get it
from Region XII, DBM.
If you were the chief executive, you are
supposed to see the entire picture and this is really a formula for
failure. I mean, if you are the chief minister now, you would like to see
the whole picture.
But this is the situation.
devolved to the ARMM.
The DBM has not been
I hope you will also be able to capture and
correct this infirmity if it is not captured in the BBL.

So you feel that it is a
workable proposition that eventually the LGUs that-any LGU that is

created by the regional assembly will then be funded by the
Bangsamoro government rather than as part of the IRA calculation.
MS. DANS.
After, I think, because the assembly will also be
empowered to create.
But for the moment, I would like to be clear
that my concern is the 12 LGUs and the 58 barangays that were

created. I cannot anymore speak for the powers that will be exercised
by the members of the assembly of the Bangsamoro.
If they so
decide, then it should also be placed there that they will be the one to,
should it be.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Attorney, this is a subject
of those proposed series of meetings?
MR. MITMUG.
Yes, sir.
That would be a subject of the
supposed series of meetings.

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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. Then again, as you

can see it, it is a subject that needs to be clarified. We have a similar
situation in the regular LGUs which I briefly mentioned and that the
sanggunian created barangays are not recognized by the DBM and it is
mandated in the Local Government Code that the sanggunian that
created the barangay will appropriate funds for that barangay and that
barangay is not included in the IRA.
The reason that that is, and I
know this because I asked the author of the Local Government Code,
the reason for that is that if that were not the case, then you would
find sanggunians creating LGUs all the time so that their IRA share will
increase in their municipality in their province. That is apparently why.
But the difficulty that we are running into is that all, now all of the
barangays created by sangunians want to also be created by act of
Congress so that they are included in the IRA calculation. And that is
the difficulty that we have before us now. And that we, in Congress,
are having to create barangays that already exist and this might be the
same situation with this non-funded.
So in your experience, the barangays are just giventhere is no
specific amount for barangays. How do they survive? How have they
been surviving in the past years?
MS. DANS.
For those enterprising barangay chairman, they
would ask for funding support from governors, from congressmen.

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Sariling sikap ito, Mr. Senator. Kaya kung ang punong barangay ano-talagang mahirap siya.
Okay.
Again, that is a
point that again has to be clarified and apparently there is a

mechanism for that in the transition for that to occur.
Well, thank you very much, Dr. Dans.
MS. DANS.
You are welcome, sir.
As a local government
practitioner, you raised many practical considerations that have to be

considered. I suppose the equivalent IRR of this will come out and all
of these administrative matters will be decided. So thank you for the
position paper of the Regional Executives Association of ARMM.
MS. DANS.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. At this point now, I

would like to call on Mr. Norodin Manalo, the executive director,
Regional Reconciliation and Unification Commission of ARMM.
Mr.
Manalo, do you have a position paper from the

MR. MANALO.
Bismillahir Rahmarir Raheem.
Assala alaikom
wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
Mr. Chairman, thank you for inviting us for this public hearing.
The RRUC is agency created under executive order issued by former
governor Lininding Pangandaman in 1993.
The RRUC is an advisory

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council of the regional government pertaining to peace especially on

localized conflict in the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao. The
RRUC as a peace mechanism in the Autonomous Region in Muslim
Mindanao is really supporting the BBL by joining in the position of the
regional government as mentioned a while ago by the regional vice
governor. And we are appealing to the Senate, through the Chairman
of this Committee, to expedite the approval of the proposed bill, the
Bangsamoro Basic Law, because we believe that the more na ma-delay
iyong pagpasa ng batas ay mas malaki ho ang iyong tsansa noong
mga spoilers to come in. Kami po sa Automomous Region in Muslim
Mindanao, natatakot po kami na kung ma-delay ito, baka magkaroon
ng mas matinding problema.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, we are appealing also that Article X of the
proposed basic law should be still part of the approvedin case
approved basic law for the Bangsamoro because we believe/smv
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RJOrtiz
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MR. MANALO.
we believe that this article particularly on
Section 26-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

MR. MANALO.
Section 26?
Twenty-six, the alternative dispute resolution
will help the Bangsamoro government in terms of peace stability in the

community.
Because in the Bangsamoro, we have a lot of problem.
For example, the localized conflict happening in the community and

this is popularly known as rido.
Based on our study, this localized
conflict contributes a lot on the vertical conflict happening in the

Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao and not only in this region but
other provinces in Mindanao.
So with that, thank you very much and hope that the Basic Law
for the Bangsamoro should be passed.
Thank you, Mr. Manalo.
So that in the view of your organization that you are expressing

the desire that Congress immediately enact the proposed BBL, you
have no questions as to its language, as to its content that might be a
source of debate and a source of amendment in the final form?
MR. MANALO.
Well, Mr. Chairman, the RRMC believes that the
submitted proposed basic law in the Senate by the Office of the

President is a result of the thorough study of the member of the BTC
and so with the Office of the President. So that I dont have anywala
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RJOrtiz
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2
akong nakikita na there is a possibility na magkaroon ng problema

because I believe also that dumaan iyan sa thorough study ng mga
legal-minded na tao under the Office of the President and also with the
Bangsamoro Transition Commission.
Very well, thank you, Mr.
Manalo.
At this point, I would like to call on Datu Ramil Dilangalen who is
the Deputy Governor for Maguindanao.
And he is also the former
mayor of Northern Kabuntalan.

So, Datu Dilangalen, I suppose you can give the position of the
provincial government of Maguindanao.
MR. DILANGALEN.
Thank you very much, Kagalang-galang na
Senador.
If you remember me, I was the man who early pronounced your
candidacy for senator in North Cotabato.
However, we presume that the coming of the Senator is
purposely for the hearing of the BBL. But, first, I would like to extend
the regards from my governor.
The province of Maguindanao actually never departed from the
consultation with the GPH representative and the MILF. As a matter of
fact, kasama po si governor sa Lanao del Sur, sa Buluanlahat po ng
consultation hindi po humihiwalay ang probinsiya ng Maguindanao in
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3
supporting iyong programa po ng national government dito po sa

usaping pangkapayapaan.
So, first, nais ko lang pong magbigay komento doon sa pinaguusapan kanina regarding doon sa creation ng mga munisipyo.
Because I had been a mayor for seven years of a non-IRA municipality.
And I believe we brought this matter to your office. So ang nangyari
po dito sa mga non-IRA municipalities, iyong dalawa pong munisipyo
dito when it was created, mayroon po kaagad IRA ito from the national
government.
Ang pinagtatakhan lang po ng marami bigla itong inalis
even knowing the fact na kasama po sa General Appropriation Act

iyong mga munisipyo na iyon, sinabay pong inalis ang kanilang IRA.
But, nevertheless, dumaan na po iyan at umaasa po ang lahat na sa
darating na mga panahon especially pag nagkaroon ng Bangsamoro
government, maa-address po iyong mga problema na iyan.
At nais ko ring magbigay komento doon sa mga previous
speakers na lahat po ng mga mamamayan dito sa probinsiya ng
Maguindanao ay nagsusuporta po sa BBL.
Ngunit iyong BBL na
magbibigay ng katarungan sa bawat sector, iyong mga provision ng

BBL na magbibigay pansin doon sa dapat na pansinin sa darating na
mga panahon.
Kung kayat kami po sa probinsiya ng Maguindanao ay
nagkaroon din ng reaction iyong aking gobernador regarding doon sa

redistricting na nagkaroon ng anim na distrito iyon pong probinsiya ng
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4
Maguindanao.
But, nevertheless, I believe that they really have
already submitted their manifest tungkol po doon. So sa probinsiya ng

Maguindanao po umaasa po ang lahat, kami po ay patuloy na
susuporta sa lahat ng programang pangkapayapaan subalit kami po ay
magsasalita in behalf nung mga nasasakupan ng probinsiya ng
Maguindanao doon po sa mga provision ng BBL na alam namin na hindi
po makakabuti doon sa ating mga kababayan.
Maraming salamat at magandang hapon po.
Datu Ramil, iyon na nga
iyong tinatanong natin kung ano iyong mga provisions sa inyong

palagay ay kailangan pang tingnan at kung bakit. Sana kung mayroon
kang mga tinutukoy na provision para mapag-aralan ng Committee at
ng Senado iyong mga proposal na pagbabago dito sa proposed BBL.
MR. DILANGALEN.
Siguro po ang aming pinagtutuunan ng
pansin at nakalimutan ko pong banggitin, just recently we had a

meeting with the Alliance of the Lumad, Iranon, Maguindanao leaders
in the province of Maguindanao.
At kami po ay naniniwala na mas
makakabuti na mananatili iyong congressional district dito po sa

probinsiya ng Maguindanao-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
MR. DILANGALEN.
Sorry, mananatili iyong--?
Iyong dalawang congressional district ng
Maguindanao instead of gagawin pa nila o matatanggap iyong nasa

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RJOrtiz
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5
provision ng draft basic law which was submitted to the Congress na

magiging anim.
Why? Sapagkat magkakaroon po ng napakaraming
confusion doon po sa ating mga mamamayan.
But instead na
magkakaroon ng redistricting dapat dadagdagan na lang iyong mga

representative
doon
po
sa
dalawang
distrito
ng
probinsiya
Maguindanao.
I am referring to the first district and second district of
Maguindanao who has three representatives in the assembly.
ng
Dapat
siguro dagdagan na lang iyon, huwag na lang gawin iyong anim na

distrito ng probinsiya ng Maguindanao.
In other words, ang
suggestion ninyo is para masundan iyong boundary ng congressional

districts?
MR. DILANGALEN.
Yes, Mr. Senator.
Mas maganda po at
mas madaling maintindihan-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
Pero ang proposal mo is
each congressional district gagawing dalawang parliamentary district,

tama ba ang pagkarinig ko, ganoon ba ang iyong pino-propose?
MR. DILANGALEN.
Ganito po. Sa draft basic law na na-submit
na sa Kongreso at sa Senado, ang gusto nilang mangyari doon iyong

dalawang distrito, congressional district ng Maguindanao, we have the
first and second district. Nandiyan po sa draft basic law na submitted
gusto nilang maging anim na distrito which I think the requirement is
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6
100,000 of population.
But we maintain our stand especially with
some leaders, the ALIM, na dapat mananatili na lang doon sa dalawang

distrito, first and second district, na ginawa ng Kongreso but instead sa
basic law gagawin na lang siguro ng Kongreso na dadagdagan iyong
mga representative doon sa dalawang distrito na iyon.
So ang suggestion mo nga
is that iyong congressional district magkakaroon ng congressman na

umuupo sa Manila pero mayroon ding dalawang districtsa isang
congressional district ninyo gagawing dalawang parliamentary district
na may dalawang representative na umuupo naman sa Bangsamoro
parliament?
MR. DILANGALEN.
Sir, ganito po kasi.
district ng Maguindanao, dalawa.
Sa congressional
But sa parliamentary proposed
diyan sa basic law gagawin nilang anim.
So iyon ang nais na
ipaliwanag ng ALIM at saka ibang liderato dito doon naas you have
asked me kung ano ang dapat na hindi ma-amend doon sa draft basic
law. So iyon ang gusto namin sana, mananatili tayo doon sa dalawang
congressional district at saka sa parliamentary ginawa nilang anim,
huwag na lang sana. Dalawang distrito na lang pero dadagdagan na
lang nila iyong representative na tatlo bawat distrito doon sa
congressional district/rjo
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M.R. CATADMAN III-4
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12:43 p.m.
1
MR. DILANGALEN.
doon sa congressional district diyan sa
parliamentary district.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). So bale sa parliamentary
district
na
pareho
ng
congressional
district,
tatlo
ang
MP
na
manggagaling doon sa distritong iyon, is that the proposal?

MR. DILANGALEN.
Mare-retain po, sir, iyong congressional
district.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Oo.
MR. DILANGALEN. Pero diyan kasi sa Basic Law, sa draft Basic
Law mayroon silang redistricting diyan. Gagawin nilang anim na
parliamentary district iyon pong province of Maguindanao.
So ang
proposal namin, huwag na lang sana, but instead iyong dating

dalawang
distrito
dadagdagan
na
lang
nila
ng
dalawa
pang
para
iyong
representative. Kasi every district dito sa

THE
CHAIRMAN.
(SEN.
MARCOS).
Hindi,
congressman hindi umuupo sa Bangsamoro Parliament.

MR. DILANGALEN. Hindi po.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Kaya nga.
Ang kailangan
ay--dahil pag pinaghati, anim ang Maguindanao.

MR. DILANGALEN. Opo.
Anim ang parliamentary
district.
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M.R. CATADMAN III-4
October 8, 2014
12:43 p.m.
2

THE
CHAIRMAN.
(SEN.
MARCOS).
Ang
parliamentary
representative.
MR. DILANGALEN. Sir, sa local ginagawa diyan sa draft Basic
Law na anim.
But in the Congress, sir, we have two.
So, sa bawat distrito
gagawin ding parliamentary district, pero imbis na hatiin, buo pa rin

ang distrito pero tatlo ang parliamentary members from each district.
MR. DILANGALEN. Opo, anim.
Pangkalahatan anim.
From one district?
Kasi
dalawa ang distrito niyo.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). So iyong dalawang distrito
anim ang kukunin na parliamentary representative. So, ang sinasabi
mo huwag nang palitan iyong distrito, iyong congressional district,
instead gawing tatlo ang representative ng bawat congressional
district?
MR. DILANGALEN. Siguro gawing lima kasi, Mr. Senator, tatlo
po ang representative sa local diyan sa Assembly, every district. But
instead sana dagdagan na lang nila iyong representative
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M.R. CATADMAN III-4
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3

babaguhin iyong distrito?
In other words, hindi na
Iyon ang main point mo, huwag nang
baguhin iyong distrito.

MR. DILANGALEN.
Opo.

Bangsamoro
parliament
iyong
number
Pero para abutin ng

ng
60,
iyong
bawat
congressional district magkaroon na lang ng tatlo na representative

galing doon sa congressional district.
MR. DILANGALEN. Oo, dagdag. Opo.
papaano ngayon iyon?
Thats an interesting
Kasi pag tatlo ang nagre-represent sa isang
distrito, hahatiin ulit iyong district within thepapaano kung hindi nagagree iyong tatlo? Papaano kung nag-debate sila sa Parliament, sino
ang masusunod?
So, ang mangyayari palagay ko is that kung we
retain the boundaries of the congressional district hahatiin na naman

iyon sa tatlo para maliwag anong bayan ang kaninong MP, et cetera.
MR. DILANGALEN. Ganoon sana ang mangyari, Sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Naiintindihan ko na iyon.
Okay, now I understand.
VOICE. Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Okay, mayroon pa ba? Do
we have more na suggestion tungkol sa anong sa palagay ninyo na
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M.R. CATADMAN III-4
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4
dapat tingan, tingan pa at pag-aralan pa dito sa Basic Law,

Bangsamoro Basic Law?
MR. DILANGALEN. Actually, sa pananaw po namin napakarami
pero siguro binibigyan na rin namin ng pagkakataon ang iba para
magbigay ng komento sapagkat I would like to remind our previous
speaker na ito pong gagawing Bangsamoro Basic Law or the
Bangsamoro government ay sa pamamaraang demokratiko pa rin. So
we cannot stop people of different sector na magbigay ng komento.
Sana po maintindihan ng bawat sector na hindi po kami anti. Kami
po ay supporter ng Bangsamoro Basic Law subalit nais lang namin iyon
pong makatarungan at makatotohanang probisyon para sa ating mga
mamamayan.
Maraming salamat.
Again,
ano iyong mga
provisions? Kaya tayo nandito ay para malaman natin. Isa iyon, iyong
mayroon kayong sinasabi na tungkol nga na huwag nang palitan ang
boundary ng bawat congressional district. Paghati-hatiin na lang para
mabuo iyong sixty MPs from districts. Ano pang provisions, sa palagay
mo, ang dapat pag-usapan at tingnan.
MR. DILANGALEN. Actually, sir, iyon pong ibang mga pananaw
natin na-incorporate doon po sa reactions ng RLA, iyon pong
nagkaroon na sila ng recommendation, so sa palagay ko we support all
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M.R. CATADMAN III-4
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12:43 p.m.
5
the manifestations submitted by the members of the RLA.
Kasi
marami doong gusto naming ipahiwatig pero nandoon na rin, kasama

doon sa resolution and recommendation na ginawa ng Regional
Legislative Assembly. So, doon na lang kami, sir. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Okay, so you are adopting
the position of the Legislative Assembly concerning the...
MR. DILANGALEN. Yes. Yes, Honorable Senator.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Okay.
We would like now
to hear from our host, the president of Notre Dame University, Father
Charlie Inzon, who has been patiently waiting and listening to all the
comments that we have been hearing, so I now give the floor to Fr.
Inzon.
MR. INZON. Thank you very much, Honorable Senator.
The university has been conducting also a lot of talk shows to
inform people about the proposed BBL and, at the same time,
conducting also a lot of researches. And the university also has been
the venue for a lot of conversations and discussions about BBL. Thats
why at the moment we are not giving a position because it appears
that Notre Dame University has really become a venue for all groups to
discuss about BBL.
But, hopefully, we can give research-based
representations of the ongoing Bangsamoro proposed law. Thats what

we are doing now.
So we are really documenting also a lot of the
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M.R. CATADMAN III-4
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6
discussions going on.
So the position really is for Notre Dame
University at the moment to host a lot of discussions and then,

hopefully,
in
research
manner
we
can
present
sort
of
documentation, at the same time representations of the different

groups. Thats what we plan as a university at the moment.
Okay, who will be
participating in the discussions that you are organizing and how is it

organized
MR. INZON.
At the moment, we have organized already the
proposed Bangsamoro Law talk shows

different stakeholders already.
hosted by experts and by the
And the first part conducted was
already about the power sharing. So we divided it into five sections.

We have finished already the three sections based on the Bangsamoro
proposed law and, hopefully, by the end of October
Which sections have you
finished?
MR. INZON.
Policing, judicial, and then the environment,
power sharing, governance, fiscal autonomy

Which ones have you
finished?
MR. INZON. Yes, those
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). I thought sabi mo tatlo?
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MR. INZON.
Yes, we clustered them into three, those areas.
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). What
are
the
three
clusters?
MR. INZON.
I think the first one was about governance. The
second one, we talked already about judicial, policing

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Judiciary?
MR. INZON. Yes, judiciary and the security and policing. We
discussed that already.
Thats one subject?
Judiciary, security, and policing.

MR. INZON.
Yes.
We clumped that into one. So we will be
discussing two more areas, Senator.

I only have two here,
governance
MR. INZON. The other one
THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Could you give us some of
the/mrjc
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of the conclusions that you arrived at?
Could you give us some
What has been the result of
your studies and discussions on these subject matters?

MR. INZON.
For example, the one raised already aboutlike
contiguity, for example, having a Bangsamoro entity in municipal

entity.
Just to cite, for example, Senator, we have discussed also that
problematic area of an administrative
entity.
Weve been an
administrative entity, for example, in North Cotabato as raised already.

Thats one of the areas that we think is really contentious.
So if you take us to the
three subjects that you have finished your discussions on, anong
naging resulta noong usapan ninyo as an input to our deliberations in
Congress?
MR. INZON.
I could not synthesize at the moment but we have
discussed that already. But we will just be giving, Honorable Senator,

the collated outputs of the talk shows.
Very well.
So we will
await that. Perhaps you can put it down in written form and send it to
the Committee.
MR. INZON.
Thats what we planned to do, Honorable Senator.
Okay. Very good.

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Thank you, Father.

MR. INZON.
Welcome.
Okay. At this point now, I
would like to call on Major Matalam of the 6th Civil Military Battalion for
his position and comments on the proposed Bangsamoro Basic Law.
Major.
MR. MATALAM. Thank you very much, Honorable Chair.
Before I start with my comment, I would like to introduce first
my personality.
I am the product of the 1996 Final Peace Agreement between the
MNLF and the GRP.
We are the first batch of the MNLF Integration
Program of the GRP and MNLF.

And in our part, we are in the first phase of the agreement on
the 1996 Final Peace Agreement and which is properly implemented,
as we have observed. But there are some provisions in the Phase 2
which is the quest of some members of the MNLF who was not
integrated into the Armed Forces of the Philippines which is the
implementation of the Special Regional Security Force. So thats what
some
members
of
the
MNLF
combatants
are
waiting
forthe
implementation of the Phase 2 which is the creation of the Special

Regional Security Force.
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And second is, with regard to this BBL, on Article X of the public
order and safety, particularly in Section 15 which is defense and
security, and allow me to read the provision, The defense and
security
MR. MATALAM.
Section 15, defense and security.

MR. MATALAM.
What page is that on?
Sixty-nine.

MR. MATALAM.
Im sorry, Major, section?
Okay. Please continue.
Under Section 15, Defense and Security. The
Defense and security of the Bangsamoro shall be the responsibility of

the central government and the central government may create a
Bangsamoro Command of the Armed Forces of the Philippines for the
Bangsamoro which shall be organized, maintained and utilized in
accordance
with
national
laws.
Qualified
inhabitants
of
the
Bangsamoro shall be given preference for assignments in the said

Bangsamoro Command.
So I would like to comment on the word may create. Because
once may create, puwedeng hindi at saka puwedeng mag-create.
But how about if the central government shall create a Bangsamoro
Command of the Armed Forces?
So that based on the 1996 Final
Peace Agreement, we have 5,500 personnel of the MNLF integrated

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into the Armed Forces of the Philippines.
And that should be
maintained if this is the case. So we can also make a mechanism on

how to absorb the members of the Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces
which is not qualified to be the members of the police. Because based
on the qualifications of the police, it is very hard for the combatants of
the BIFF to be a member of the police. So for that, the Armed Forces
of the Philippines could be able to make a mechanism to address the
issue on the combatants of the MILF because we do believe that most
of the members of the MILF have not gone to proper schooling.
So
how to address these combatants of the BIFF if we could not have a

proper venue for them?
THE
CHAIRMAN
(SEN.
MARCOS).
Would
not
supplementary training beFor example, kung iyong nag-a-apply sa

AFP, kung hindi, sa Bangsamoro Police Force ay hindi pa qualified,
baka tulungan na lang natin para ma-absorb, tulungan natin, idaan
natin sa kaunting additional schooling and maybe bring them up to
standard because we have to maintain the standard that we have for
all of those who are entering the AFP, both at the officer corps and as
an enlisted man.
But also, in the police, it is the same idea para
naman pag sinabing pulis, you can expect a certain level of training.
Because it would seem to be having what you could call special rules
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only for those who are previous combatants who are being absorbed
into the uniformed services.
Would that be a good mechanism that whatever is lacking in
terms of schooling or training from those combatants to be absorbed
into any of the uniformed services, that we provide additional
supplementary training and schooling for that applicant so that they
can be absorbed?
MR. MATALAM.
Yes, Mr. Chair. But before the reentry, if the
case of the MNLF, all qualifications has been madeeducational, age

and some other qualificationna-waive iyon, hindi na kailangan iyon,
as long as you are the member of the MNLF, puwede kang papasok.
But in this case maybe, according to that we have heard, that before
na mag-enter ka, you have the qualifications as a police.
that NAPOLCOM and other qualifications.
You have
But if the preentry of the
Bangsamoro, iwe-waive iyong mga qualifications, doon na lang sila sa

training. So maybe thats a good point to help those members of the
Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces to join the police force.
So what you are saying is
that we will adopt the same mechanism as the 96 Agreement

specifiedbrhg
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). agreement specified.

MR. MATALAM. Yes, Mr. Chair.
As long as they are
identified as combatants who would like to be absorbed into the

uniformed services that they waive some of the requirements that we
normally impose on those who are entering the services.
MR. MATALAM. Yes, Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. That is noted. And
in the interest also of being consistent, that would seem to be a
reasonable suggestion.
Major, is there anything else?
MR. MATALAM. Nothing more.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). No more.
MR. MATALAM. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Are there any other
provisions that you have suggestions for in terms ofit turns out that
the process we are undertaking here is trying to put meat on the bones
of the BBL right now in the specific terms of how do we implement,
how do we administer, how do we regulate and that brings us always
to the question on the sharing of powers.
So, are there any other elements of the BBL that you see that
you would like to add or to go into further detail to clarify some of the
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provisions besides the section that you have been explaining to the
Committee, Major?
MR. MATALAM. Yes. In addition, Mr. Chair, with regard to the
decommissioning
of
this
BIFF,
because
we
believe
that
the
decommissioning is a very crucial issue with regard to the combatant

of the MILF because there are cases that the procurement of the arms
of some members of the MILF, that is personal procurement.
Then
due to some ridothey call it rido, personal family feud, then if we

can decommission some members of the MILF without giving also the
firearms of the PAGs, these partisan armed groups, and those
members of the BIFF na hindi makapasok sa police force, wala silang
mapuntahan. Then I would like to recommend the deactivation of the
CAFGU, the citizens arm geographic unit of the Armed Forces of the
Philippines, so that we can absorb some members of the BIFF to be the
replacement of the CAFGU because we have 6,000 members of the
CAFGU. Then to deactivate the CAFGU and replace some members of
the BIFF to be replaced as the territorial defense to maintain the peace
and order in the locality. So, maybe that is better. But before going
to that, we have a module. We have to make trainings for them for
security and part of the mechanism, it should be clustered. Do not get
out from their camp.
So, they have to undergo trainings, livelihood
trainings, skills training and different trainings in those areas of

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clustering. Because if we cannot address these sentiments of the

combatants of the MILF, this is the problem. No problem with the civil
societies of the MILF but the problem is the one holding the firearms.
If we cannot give attention to this, maybe we cannot solve the
insurgency or the conflict here in Mindanao. So, we have to look first
into the mechanisms of this Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces
because these are the crucial issues.
So, in your view, all the
combatants, all must be absorbed into one of the--either the

uniformed services and now the CAFGU.
MR. MATALAM.
Yes.
Anyway, the CAFGU is only receiving a
minimal amount ofwith an allowance of 2,700. And that we have to

activate the CAFGU, then replace this for thembecause that is part of
their short-term development as long as they feel that they are also
part of the negotiations. They are concerned with thatwith the result
of this.
Because as I have seen the BBL, there is no concrete
mechanism to address the combatants of the MILF because this is the

problem. Based on the experience as what you have said a while ago,
the siege in Zamboanga, that is the result of the MNLF nandoon pa sa
kanila iyong baril nila.
the government.
So, they have that capability to fight against
Pero kung kontrolado natin sila, we have that
mechanism on how to control them under the AFP or under the PNP, so
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that is more better. Ito kasi ang pinaka dapat talagang bigyan natin
ng concern is itong
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Baka mapunta sa banditry
pagka basta na lang decommission may hawak pang baril, wala ng
ibang makuhang trabaho, baka ganoon ang mangyari.
That is your
main concern.
MR. MATALAM. Oo, ganoon ang ano ko.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay.
Thank you, Major.
That is well-noted.
Major, is there anything else that you would like to bring up?
MR. MATALAM. Nothing more, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Datu Antonio Kinoc of the MILF panel I think has some
reactions to the suggestions made by Major Matalam.

MR. KINOC. Thank you, Your Honor.
I am here not as an official delegation of the MILF panel but as
an observer.
But I just like to make some observations on the just
recent comments or suggestions of the gentleman from the military

that we do not legislate decommissioning. So, if you look at the BBL,
there is no issue on the decommissioning of forces because this is
taken by another group.
In the framework agreement on the

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Bangsamoro
and
the
comprehensive
independent decommissioning body.
agreement,
we
have
the
We have just formalized the
official membership of the decommissioning body in Kuala Lumpur last

29 September and the chairman of the decommissioning body is the
Turkish Ambassador to the NATO(?) and the members are one from
Norway, one from Brunei and then two from the Armed Forces of the
PhilippinesI think it is retired General Leo Ferrer and retired General
Ariel Bernardo and we have from the MILF. Let us try to differentiate
the situation. In the 1996 Peace Agreement, the MNLF opted to join
the military or the police. So, they were integrated into the Philippine
National Police or into the Armed Forces of the Philippines. In the case
of the MILF/hsg
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MR. KINOC. In the case of the MILF, we do not integrate. We

create, per the law, a new police for the Bangsamoro but it shall be
under the Philippine National Police down the line. The appointment is
vested in the PNP chief but the selection is within the regional police
director. There is a regional police board. So the process, is we want
to have a police force for the Bangsamoro that is professional, that is
disciplined and so we have to get their qualification on the merit
system. If they are not qualified, sorry, we cannot get police like that,
because we want to transform the Bangsamoro area into a peaceful
community. The Armed Forces, as per the agreement and in the
agreement, the Armed Forces has the control of external security.
So for the information of the body, we are going to have a
ceremonial decommissioning within the next few days.
Maybe
by
November, I cannot be assured of the exact date. Now, this is already

in the negotiation.
Now we have the so-called Joint Normalization
Commission and we have the so-called Joint Peace and Security Team.
In this peace and security team, this is composed of I think 300 from
the MILF; then from the Armed Forces of the Philippines, another 300;
then from the Police. These are the people that will be running after or
interdicting criminal elements like the PAGs, these are the private
armed groups and such other elements that are against the law.
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Now, in the case of the firearms, according to the gentleman,

some of these are personal. Now, we will have a mechanism that if
you are qualified under present firearms law to possess firearm, of
course, when you say firearms, it must be small firearms, you are not
allowed to possess a cannon.
So this will be processed.
This is to
eliminate the possession of firearms in people that are not qualified,

are not supposed to be psychologically available to hold firearms. So
this is the process. Along line, Mr. Chairman, the Bangsamoro Basic
Law, we have already the mechanism for the normalization.
Thank you.
So essentially you are
saying that you will not, in your view, at least informal as an observer
and not a former representative of the panel, that you will not take up
the option as the MNLF did to be absorbed into the uniformed services.
You will create a new police force and that will still have the same
requirements as all the other police in theand what about the Majors
concern that those who had been combatants before?
MR. KINOC. We have programs alongside with the government.
Because that is why if you look at the Bangsamoro Basic Law, we are
provided with the so-called Special Development Fund. It is within the
ambit of this funding that we can give livelihood projects, livelihood
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wielding people anymore. We want them to be civilian and then doing

civilian life because we envisioned that the Bangsamoro shall be a
community that will no longer entertain rebellion or any armed
struggle for that matter. That is why, we opt for the police because in
the Constitution, our police must be civilian in character.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So you were explaining that
you are already under the process of creating those bodies.
What
bodies will they be and what will be their functions?

MR. KINOC. No, we have already created, as I have said, the
Joint Normalization Commission
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes.
MR. KINOC.
We
have
the
which take care of the normalization process.
so-called
Transitional
Justice
and
Reconciliation
Commission, then we have the joint peace and security teams. These
are armed forces and these are members of the Bangsamoro Islamic
Armed Forces. They will be trained alongside with the military on the
process of policing in the meantime that we have not put up the
Bangsamoro police. We must remember that the agreement is, there
will
be
gradual
phasing
out
of
the
armed
forces
within
the
Bangsamoro; at the same time, there will be gradual decommissioning

of forces of the Armed Forcesof the body.
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We have to make a
differentiation between the Police and the Armed Forces.
Iyong
sinasabi ninyo that you are already creating or have already created
decommissioning body that will be part of the transition team?
MR. KINOC. Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But this is a commissioning
body for both the police and the armed forces or separate?
MR. KINOC. No, this is practically a decommissioning body for
the Bangsamoro Islamic Forces combatants. Meaning, the combatants
will be eased out of the armed bodythe armed forces of the
Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces to civilian life.
over their firearms gradually.
So they will turn
Now in the meantime while the Police
has not been established, we will have the so-called joint peace and
security teams. This is composed of three elementsone is the Armed
Forces of the Philippines, then the Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces
and then the police, the PNP, the Philippine National Police. These will
be the group that will move around the Bangsamoro and then assess
the presence of other armed groups like Abu Sayyaf, BIFF and all
others.
So this is going to be a
gradual process.
MR. KINOC. Yes.
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So habang wala pa iyong
Bangsamoro police, it will mostly be the AFP.
But as you slowly
organize, the presence of the AFP will slowly diminish in like fashion.
That is the concept that you are following now?
MR. KINOC. Yes.
Okay.
You say that you
will finalize this mechanism by November?

MR. KINOC. No. It is already in place, they are meeting. In
fact, they are here. Some of them are here already. Some generals
are here. The police general, I think, I saw him around the other day.
They were here.
They are meeting already.
They are organizing
because we have to select the 300 from the Bangsamoro Islamic

Armed Forces to join them in the peace and security team. Because
we must remember that this Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces are
not of the same standard as the Armed Forces. These people are just
civilian who turned to be rebels, but we have to choose among them,
the discipline, psychological profile to join the Armed Forces in the
interdiction of ordinary criminals within the Bangsamoro proposed
area.
MR. JULKIPLI. Mr. Chair.
Okay.
Thats some
clarification. Yes.
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MR. JULKIPLI. Mr. Chair, if I may be recognized?

MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes. Atty. Julkipli.
I just want to make a rejoinder to the
statements and explanations provided by Datu Kinoc earlier.
Well, I
just like to read into the record because he mentioned earlier that
Generals Ferrer and Bernado are members of the decommissioning
bodythey
are
actually
members
of
the
Joint
Normalization
Commission, Mr. Chair. So I just like to correct that. Retired Generals

Ferrer
and
Bernardo
are
members
of
the
Joint
Normalization
Commission.
MR. KINOC. The JNC.
MR. JULKIPLI. The JNC, not the Independent Decommissioning
Body.
MR. KINOC. Not the IDB. I stand corrected on that.
MR. JULKIPLI. Yes, sir.
But also I would like to take the opportunity to also add some
details as to the normalization annex and the normalization process in
particular. This has relation also to the points raised by Major Matalam
earlier.
So
as
mentioned,
there
will
be
an
independent
decommissioning body. This is a body that is mandated by our signed

annex on normalization and the primary task or duty of this
independent decommissioning body is to take care of the process of
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decommissioning.
Decommissioning
is
the
turnover
of
the
weapons/smv
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MR. JULKIPLI.
of the weapons and combatants of the MILF-
BIAF or Bangsamoro Islamic Armed Forces. They turn over their

weapons to this independent decommissioning body. And the IDB is an
independent body composed of foreign and local experts.
As
mentioned, the international experts have already been identified.
So
they are in the process of constituting the different terms. I think they
are already in the preliminary stage of organizing the different steps
for decommissioning.
Mr.
Chair,
the
process
for
decommissioning
under
our
normalization agreement is supposed to follow a schedule or program.

So it is provided in the annex, there is a table towards the end of the
annex
of
normalization.
It
details
the
gradual
process
of
decommissioning alongside the other components of normalization.

By other components, I mean, that in normalization we have a security
aspect and that involves decommissioning and the deployment of AFP
as well as the provisions on policing. But that is just one aspect po of
normalization.
component.
Normalization also has a socio-economic development

And, finally, a transitional justice and reconciliation
component. So all of these-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
All of these efforts are
directed to combatantswhat were combatants before?
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MR. JULKIPLI.
Well, primarily po directed at combatants
although it also-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
But not necessarily limited
to?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Not necessarily limited to because it also
addresses po all poverty-stricken communities affected by the conflict.

Has this methodology been
finalized or are we still in that process of finalizing it?

MR. JULKIPLI.
We are already in the process of finalizing it,
Mr. Chair.
is doing the discussions on that?
How is it being done? Who
Because again the outputs of that
process will again be something that we would likesome of the detail

that we would need to fill out, as I said, the basic framework that we
have been given in the proposed Bangsamoro Law.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair. At the forefront of the process
for normalization are the two peace negotiating panels. So the peace
negotiating
panel
of
government
and
the
MILF
are
the
lead
personalities in this effort. Although we have already constituted, as

earlier mentioned, a joint normalization commission.
So its a group
that is under the peace panels and they are directly responsible to
oversee all components of normalization, security, socio-econ and
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transitional justice. And lahat po ito parallel.
So while we are doing
the process of decommissioning on one hand, we are also starting our

socio-economic development efforts. So nabanggit po iyong social
development fund but the funds for that will also come from other
sources under our normalization agreement.
So the SDF in our BBL
will just be one source of fund for our socio-econ efforts.

The body studying this
matter is besides the two panels, mayroon pa bang ibang involved?

MR. JULKIPLI.
independent
Well, so far po iyon iyong nasabi, the
decommissioning
body,
the
Joint
Normalization
Commission. All of these are under the peace panels also, Mr. Chair.
Okay.
All right. Thank
you very much.

Major, you have heard much of the suggestions, perhaps as
explained to us by Datu Kinoc, it is a different option that the MILF has
chosen to choose.
And perhaps we will be able to discuss it further
when the details of the transfer of power and the decommissioning

proper are more clearly laid out. What are the trigger points, what are
theIm sure that there will be a phasing to it and that there could be
number so that there will be a kind of performance test at each step of
the way whether or not you can proceed to the next one, parang
ganoon.
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MR. JULKIPLI.
Actually yes, Mr. Chair, that is right.
In our
program for normalization, we have four major steps or milestones.

And the first, we already achieved, that is the signing of our
agreement and the processing for the draft BBL.
stage, at least with respect to this program.
So we are at that
So therefore the
different steps that should be undertaken in the normalization whether

it is security, socio-econ or the others must also proceed accordingly.
Kaya po nabanggit earlier the MILF is already prepared to start the
ceremonial turnover because according to our program precisely since
we have met the first milestone, kasama po iyong ceremonial
turnover.
MR. JULKIPLI.
What are the other steps?
At least under our program for normalization,
we are still at Phase 1, as I said, as brought about by the signing of

the agreements, the turnover of the BBL. Mayroon pa po tayong mga
steps sa Phase 1 like the verification andiyong inventory. So
verification, validation of the weapons and combatants of the MILF to
be done by the independent decommissioning body. So those are the
things that still has to be undertaken in Phase 1 before we can move to
Phase 2.
But for the information of the body po, under Phase 1 for
decommissioning as mentioned, kailangan na-organize na po natin

iyong IDB and weve done that, weve been able to organize the
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decommissioning body already.
Another step in Phase 1 is the
submission of the inventory to the independent decommissioning body

of the weapons and the combatants.
And then there should be a
verification process and, finally, the ceremonial turnover.
Those are
the steps for decommissioning in this Phase 1.

Ang Phase 2 po would start upon the completion of the validation
of the MILF forces and weapons.
ratification of the basic law.
And it will end also upon the
So thats the time frame for Phase 2.
So after that, we move to Phase 3. That happens from the time

that the basic law has been ratified. And then in Phase 3 is also--the
milestone
is
the
establishment
and
operationalization
of
the
Bangsamoro police force.

And, finally, Phase 4 when the police force has been organized
and established and two months prior to the signing of the exit
agreement which is scheduled also in 2016.
So iyon po iyong four phases and along those different stages,
there will be different steps to be undertaken.
In our previous briefing,
Secretary Delis mentioned something about an ongoing process

concerning the turnover of crew served and heavy weapons.
was
she
referring
to?
Where
does
that
belong
in
What
your
decommissioning mechanism?
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RJOrtiz
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6
MR. JULKIPLI.
If this refers to the weapons po of the MILF
combatants, then it should be under decommissioning properly.
think what Secretary Delis was mentioning there was the organization
of the decommissioning body. So that was the process then. But now
that weve been able to identify the members and organize, we can
now move on to the actual turnover to be initiated by the ceremonial
turnover po.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Who will do the inventory?
The independent decommissioning body, sir.
Okay. And the list will be
given to them by whom?

MR. JULKIPLI.
It will be the MILF, sir, who would give them
the-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

MR. JULKIPLI.
The commanders?
And they will verify if theand countercheck
whether the list-THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).
So it will be the
commanders in the MILF who will provide the inventory of weapons?

MR. JULKIPLI.
Well, the inventory itself, sir, should be done
by the decommissioning body. But as to the processthe internal

process with respect to the MILF, I am really not in the position, sir, to
answer that.
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Okay, good enough.
All
right.
Thank you.
Let us proceed.
I am in receipt of a position paper from the
Office of the Sangguniang Panlalawigan in Kidapawan City.
The
Resolution No. 484 and we have here board member from the First
District of North Cotabato, Board Member Kelly Antao.
Board Member, maybe you can take us to the resolution that you
have given the Committee.
MR. ANTAO.
Maraming salamat, Mr. Chair.
Gusto kong tumayo dahil lahat po ng nagsasalita ay nakaupo.

So gusto ko pong makatayo ang matagal na nating hinahangad na
kapayapaan dito sa lupang pangako.
Kami po sa North Cotabato sa pamumuno ng aming mahal na
gobernadora ay sumusuporta po sa usaping pangkapayapaan.
Mula
nang mapirmahan ang framework agreement on the Bangsamoro,

inatasan po ng ating gobernadora ang Committee on Human Rights
and Peace Order na mamuno po sa pagkakaroon ng konsultasyon.
Bumaba
kami
sa
mga
barangay
kasama
po
ang
civil
society
organization at kung ano ang binanggit po ng ating mahal na

gobernadora ay iyon po ang bunga ng aming pag-ikot-ikot/rjo
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M.R. CATADMAN III-5
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1:33 p.m.
1
MR. ANTAO.
bunga ng aming pag-ikot-ikot sa probinsya ng
North Cotabato. Lahat po ng ating ginagawa po ay sinusuportahan ng

probinsya ng Cotabato dahil alam po namin, alam nating lahat na ito
ay isang pagkakataon na mabigyan ng todo ang matagal na nating
minimithi, o ang problema sa Mindanao na kung saan tayo ay
nagpapasalamat
sa
Panginoon
na
ang
chairman
on
Peace,
Reconciliation and Unification ay mula sa Mindanao na kabahagi na ng

buhay niya ang problema sa Mindanao.
At alam din natin na tayoy
magpapasalamat na ang chairman sa Committee on Local Government

ay ang ating mahal na Senator Ferdinand R. Marcos na alam na alam
niya ang kasaysayan ng bansa lalung-lalo na ang problema sa
Mindanao.
Mga kaibigan, mga Bangsamoro, we want to put into record that
the provincial government of Cotabato is 100 percent supportive sa
usaping pangkapayapaan bagkus ito ay kinakailangan na para po sa
kapakanan, para po sa kaunlaran ng ating mamamayan.
Our governor is here together with our colleagues, the Honorable
Loreto Cabbaya, the Honorable Julia Sultan, and the staff of the
Sangguniang Panlalawigan.
Marami po kaming mga kasamahan, the
vice-mayor of Carmen representing the Mayors League of Cotabato,

the
Honorable
Roger
Talio
ay
nandito
po
upang
ipakita
sa
sambayanang Bangsamoro na ang North Cotabato po ay sumusuporta

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M.R. CATADMAN III-5
October 8, 2014
1:33 p.m.
2
po sa usaping pangkapayapaan.
Para tapusin namin iyan, Mahal na
Chair, kami po ay nagpasa ng resolution po urging the two Chambers,

the Senate of the Philippines and the Congress, na magkaroon poto
cause the early passage of the Bangsamoro Basic Law. Ang laman po
niyon ay hindi ko na po babasahin dahil alam po natin na tayong lahat
ay naghahangad ng kapayapaan.
Iyon po ang aming posisyon sa
North Cotabato, we are 100 percent supportive to the peace process

by the instruction of our governor.
Thank you so much.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very clear, sir.
Your
position is very clear to include also the position of the governor. And
apparently this is under her instructions so masigasig ang ating
gobernador. So thank you for that. Again, a very clear expression of
support and a prayer to rapidly pass the draft Basic Bangsamoro Law.
We now move on to
MS. MENDOZA. Mister
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes, Governor Lala.
MS. MENDOZA.
We are consistent here.
We are fully
supportive, but of course we raise issues because we want this

Bangsamoro bill passed. That is why we are helping by pointing out
some gray areas.
When the panels visited us, some were not able to
address our concerns thats why we put it in writing. But, nonetheless,

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M.R. CATADMAN III-5
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3
we want to manifest that these are valid concerns, but it does not
mean that we are not supportive. Ang amin lang, mayroon mang BBL
or
wala,
responsibilidad
namin
lahat
mga
ka-Mindanawan
na
sumuporta na magkaroon kami ng tunay na kapayapaan dito dahil

kami naman ang maiiwan dito. Kami naman ang makikinabang kung
anumang resources or katahimikan ang Mindanao. All those present, I
must say, we are united on this, uniting and supporting all the peace
initiatives of the government.
localized peace initiatives.
But in our own ways, we can also do
Kaya iyon ang ginagawa rin namin sa
probinsya na hindi puwedeng iasa mo lang sa national. Kung mayroon

ka nang puwedeng gawin locally, gawin mo na.
Address the social
services, address their neededucation to health, to infrastructure and

everything. So that is our share in making sure that there is peace in
North Cotabato.
Very well, thank you.
think that we are all of the same sentiment that all of us are active
participants in the search for peace. That not only do we want the
passage of the Bangsamoro Basic Law, we want the law that is passed
to succeed, and that is the most important consideration. And that is
why we are going into as much possible detail as we can so that when
it is enacted and when it is starting to be implemented that all of the
gray areas, all of the questionable administrative and regulatory and
138

M.R. CATADMAN III-5
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4
all of these functions of the different bodies of the government, both

Bangsamoro government and the national government, are very clear
as to how it is to be handled and what is the modality; what is the
mechanism specially on the transition side. That is, again, it has been
said, God is in the details. I absolutely agree that the details, it is our
work to make sure to study all of those details so once again to the
end that we want this to succeed. We all want to finally achieve peace
not only in Muslim Mindanao, but in the entire Republic.
So I now move on towe will ask Anwar Lucas, the president of
the Cotabato Bangsamoro Movement for Peace and Development,
Incorporated.
Mr. Lucas, maybe you can give us your position on this measure
we are studying.
MR. LUCAS. Assalamualaikum. Magandang hapon po sa lahat.
More on ito po ay suggestion or recommendation more on Article
VII, Section 8 and Section 9 of the Bangsamoro Basic Law. Sa usapin
pong territory mai-suggest po namin kung pupuwede as of now the
Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao territory that is the five
provinces of Maguindanao, Lanao del Sur, Jolo, Tawi-Tawi, and Basilan.
At ito po ay nataposthat is the proposal of the MNLF, that is the 1996
Peace Agreement. And what is the result of that? Certification of the
Republic Act No. 9054. Ito na po ang kinalalabasan, Mr. Chairman,
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M.R. CATADMAN III-5
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5
itong five provinces. Therefore, nandiyan na yankung pupuwede na

hindi na ito maisama sa plebesito.
Now, magkakaroon lang ng
plebesito doon sa additional territory doon sa proposal ng Bangsamoro

Basic Law, or mayroon diyang territory sa proposal additional na
specific. Then doon naman sa hindi, puwede silang mag-join pero may
proseso magkakaroon ng 10 percent of the registered voters for that
province, and then maki-join sila. And then iyon lang po. Iyon lang po
ang sa aming pananaw. Kung puwede wala nang plebesito sa limang
probinsya dahil iyang plebesito po na iyanat saka malaki po ang
utang na loob na nakikita po namin na iyan din ay pinaghirapan ng
mga brothers ng MNLF.
At makikita natin na sayang naman kung
iyong pinaghirapan nila, kumbaga, ay mawawala.

And then one of my suggestions, Mr. Chairman, ay dito po sa
districting ng Maguindanao.
The total population of Maguindanao
province based on the 2010 census is more than 900,000 po ang

population.
And then puwede po itong gagawing nine members of
parliament district and then magkakaroon ng nine parliament members

sa bawat distrito sa nine distrito kasi iyon ang nakalagay based on
second
paragraph
government.
of
Section
8,
Article
VII
doon
Bangsamoro
Iyon po ang mai-suggest ng aming organization, Mr.
Chairman.
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M.R. CATADMAN III-5
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6
What is this specific
provision that you are referring to? Alin dito?

MR. LUCAS. Indicated po doon sa second paragraph of Section
8, Article VII of Bangsamoro government, the minimum population of
the one parliament district is 100,000. Therefore, the total population
of the Province of Maguindanao last census of 2010 this is more than
100,000. Therefore, magkakaroon siya ng nine districts sa parliament
district
and then magkakaroon din siya ng representatives na nine
parliament members.
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So you are looking at the
size of the parliamentary districtIm sorry but mahina iyong ating
sound system/mrjc
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BRHGonzales
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1

naintindihan lahat ng sinabi mo.
sound system, hindi ko
What I caught was that the
100,000
MR. LUCAS.
A day, yes.
Maybe dont hold the mike
so close. Ilayo ninyo nang kaunti para

MR. LUCAS.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Second paragraph of Section
8, Article VII po
Section 8, Article VII,
second paragraph, redistricting. Yes.

MR. LUCAS.
is 100,000 po.
The minimum population of one parliament district
Then, the Province of Maguindanao, mayroon siyang
more than 900,000 population.
Therefore, magkakaroon po kami,
kung ito bay recommendation na gagawing nine parliament districts

po
ng
Bangsamoro
government
at
magkakaroon
siya
ng
nine
parliament members sa Bangsamoro government.

Yes. Are you supporting
that or are you questioning it?

MR. LUCAS.
Supported po.

MR. LUCAS.
You are proposing it.
Because doon sa districting po, nakikita ko doon,
the proposal is six districts sa Province of Maguindanao.
And then,
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nagkaroon sila ng clustering sa ilang municipalities in one parliament

district.
arguing about the redistricting.
Okay. So already we are
Para tayong nasa ano, that every
100,000 should have an MP. Thats another thing that is happening in

the normal congress, in that we are just increasing and increasing the
numbers of congressional districts and it has to stop at some point.
Is there again a limit to the number of districts that can be
created? Because again, there is already a proposal for the 900,000
population that instead of six, it should be nine districts. Then, in the
language here, akin to the language in the Constitution of 250,000,
how are we going to handle the creation of new parliamentary districts
in the future?
Will there be a limit or will we just recognize the
100,000? Because inevitably, as has happened again in the Philippine

Congress, we are constantly receiving proposals for redistricting
because of the increase in population.
But again, it has become a
continuing process to which there seems to be no end and we cannot

have an infinite number of congressmen.
First of all, let us ask, how is it that you chose to have six
parliamentary districts?
MR. JULKIPLI. Mr. Chair, for the information of the body, the
appendix that we see right now to the BBL is not yet a final form.
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3
Precisely, this will still have to be reviewed by, of course, the

legislators. But even at the level of the transition commission and also
at the panels, we are in the process of actually revisiting what has
been appended to this proposed BBL insofar as the proposed districting
for the first parliament is concerned. In fact, in the last meeting that
we had in Kuala Lumpur, a small group has been designated by the
panels precisely to revisit this appendix so that we could study
carefully how to apportion the first 24 districts for this first parliament.
The number 24 was arrived at on the basis of the current
number of the ARLA or the ARMM Regional Legislative Assembly. And,
of course, also as a function of the percentages that have been
determined for the different types of seats in parliament. So since we
have agreed in the number 60 as the total, 40 percent of that would be
24. So that automatically means that at least for the first elections in
the first parliament, there has to be at least 24 districts also because
there will be single member district representatives.
However, this
could be changed later by the parliament as they may deem wise

according to the changing circumstances perhaps with respect to
population or the need for more equitable representation.
Can I make a very strong
suggestion?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair.

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4
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). From the lessons learned in

the House of Representatives and the Senate is that you hold the
number of parliamentary seats constant. Otherwise, it is an unending
process and it usually, mostly has to do with gerrymandering rather
than representation.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair.
And we all know that and
that is whats happened in our experience. So that if you hold and if

you
look
at
the
legislative
bodies
of
other
more
developed
democracies, they do not add districts. There are 200 congressmen in

the United States.
That number does not change.
There are 200
senators in their Congress. The members of parliament of the United

Kingdom do not change; the number seats are the same.
gerrymandering that they do is by redefining the districts.
The
Perhaps
that might be allowable but we cannot continue just to add and add
because if population is the sole basis, that is exactly what will happen
and that is exactly what is happening now in the Philippine Congress
that dagdag lang tayo nang dagdag because there is the constitutional
mandate that 250,000 is another congressional district.
So I would take it the other waytanggalin ninyo na iyong
population, decide on the maximum number of members of parliament
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5
who represent parliamentary districts. That way, that problem, I am

telling you, that we are experiencing, you will no longer experience.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair. We will take note of that.
Yes.
That is just a
suggestion. That is a lesson learned from just pure experience. Ive

been in the local government committee for the last four plus years.
So maybe you can avoid some of the headaches that we have been
going through.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Yes, Mr. Chair. We will take note of that.
So, Mr. Lucas, is there
anything else besides the parliamentary district?
Mayroon pa ba
kayong gustong pag-usapan na bukod doon sa

MR. LUCAS.
Iyong sa ano po, Mr. Chairman, sa limang
probinsya po na nagkaroon na ng plebisito noong 2001, kung ito ba ay

pupuwede na hindi na siya mai-plebisito? Doon na lang ang plebisito,
diyan
sa
proposed
additional
territory
na
nandito
ngayon
sa

MR. LUCAS.
Wala nang plebisito sa?
Iyon pong five provinces.
Ito ngayon ang
territory kasi that is the ratification of Republic Act 9054. Iyan po ang
resulta na sumang-ayon na masasakop sila ng ARMM territory. Ang sa
aming pananaw, kung pupuwede na hindi na ito magkakaroon pa ng
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plebisito. Ang plebisito dito na lang sa additional territory na nandito

ngayon sa Bangsamoro Basic Law.
So kung ano iyong
kasama na sa ARMM ngayon, hindi na kailangang magplebisito?

MR. LUCAS.
Yes po, Mr. Chairman. Kasi nagkaroon na po ng
plebisito noong 2001. Iyon po ang nasama doon sa peace agreement

between the MNLF at saka GPH at iyon po ang naging resulta ng
ratification ng Republic Act 9054 na sumang-ayon doon sa batas ng
Republic Act 9054.
Pero sinasabi ng ibang
LGU executives na bumoto kami sa ARMM. Hindi kami bumoboto pa sa

BBL, sa Bangsamoro. So the vote that was taken, iyong plebiscite, ay
tungkol sa ARMM.
Hindi pa natin naririnig ang boto ng mga tao
tungkol sa Bangsamoro. And we still have to do that also. The idea is

that because we are creating a new body and this is going to repeal
the law that created the ARMM. And, therefore, we have to start the
process from the very beginning.
As a matter of fact, there is an
argument being made, sinasabi na ang plebisito, hindi lamang dapat sa

mga area na specified kung hindi sa buong Pilipinas.
At ito ay
nababanggit dahil sa ibang bansa, ganyan ang naging precedent na

pagka
mayroong
isang
probinsya
na
magre-reorganize,
ang
assumption is that apektado ang buong bayan, ang buong bansa kaya
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lahat ng buong bansa ay kailangang i-plebiscite. But that is one school

of thought. The other school of thought, I suppose, you represent the
other side of that thinking.
Well, anyway, it is a proposal that we will take onboard, that we
will note.
Is there anything else, Mr. Lucas?
MR. LUCAS.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mayroon ba kayong gusto
pang mapag-usapan at tingnan pa, Mr. Lucas?

MR. LUCAS.
Wala na po.
Maraming salamat po, Mr. Chairman.

Okay.
Thank you very
much for that discussion.

I would like nowbrhg
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I would like now to hear

from Professor Hamid Ladjakahal, the former undersecretary of the
DepEd of ARMM.
Professor, perhaps you could add more to our discussions here
today.
MR. LADJAKAHAL. Bismillah Hir-Rahman Nir-Rahim. Assalamu
alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh.
Professor Ladjakahal is the chairman of the Bangsa Sama
Movement for Better Representation and Governance and I am from
Tawi-Tawi.
Before I ask for clarification on three important issues, I would
like to tell the Honorable Chairman that on a personal note, we are
very thankful to you because Tawi-Tawi was created under Presidential
Decree 301 because of your late father. And we want also to tell you
that we are supporting the Bangsamoro Basic Law. Considering that
your father has given us a legacy to Tawi-Tawi, we would like to
appeal to you that you give us this legacy by fully supporting the
There are three basic issues that I want to be clarified and this
may be addressed to you and the representative of the OPAPP.
Number one is the zone of joint cooperation and it specifically
speaks of Sulu Sea and the Moro Gulf. Now, in other provinces of the
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ARMM, the boundaries between provinces and municipalities are within

the territory of the Philippines and therefore there is no problem. In
the case of Tawi-Tawi, our boundary to the south is Sabah, Malaysia.
We have to be clarified because the Constitution speaks that we have
still historical and legal rights over Sabah which is basically said in the
claim over Sabah.
So, the people of Tawi-Tawi wants to be clarified
how shall the Sulu Sea as a joint cooperation be related to our

boundary with Sabah, Malaysia.
Number two issue is the term wali, wali which is a cultural term
refers to leader and in the definition of the Basic Law, it is symbolic
head but the authority to appoint is vested in the President. What is
the logic why cant it be given already to the chief minister instead of
the President? That is the second one.
The third one is the system of education that we have in the
ARMM.
Today, we have already the K to 12:
kindergarten, basic
education and higher education and so on and so forth. But it does not
specify the provision of the K to 12 in the proposed education act.
Central to this peace agreement and the basic law is the madrasah
education.
So, the system of education that we have to implement
within the Bangsamoro political entity must be differ in a certain

degree from the national government because madrasah education is
central to the peace agreement that we have in this country. So, we
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want to ask for clarification on these three basic issues that I have said
and I am addressing this to the Honorable Chairman and the OPAPP
representative.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The three
points that you are making is how exactly do we handle the question of
the claim of the Republic of the Philippines on Sabah as part of the
Republic of the Philippines and until that claim has been finally
resolved, how do we handle the issue of Sulu Sea because I think in
the Basic Law you are giving to the municipal waters up to the
exclusive economic zone of the Philippines of the baseline, basically.
So, do you have a mechanism? Because this is a very specific--siguro
Tawi-Tawi lang ang may problema na ganito. So, how do we handle
that joint cooperation, all of those aspects of the exploitation of not
only the fisheries but also the mineral reserves should there be any
found?
Let us start with that one first.
MR. JULKIPLI. All right. So, under our agreements and also as
detailed in our proposed Bangsamoro Basic Law, when we speak of
zones of joint cooperation, we properly refer to an area in the Sulu Sea
and the Moro Gulf whereby there shall be shared or joint coordination
and cooperation between central government and the Bangsamoro
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government with respect to three particular powers and that involves-Let me just read from our proposed BBL.
With respect to zones of joint cooperation--again, this is not
territory.
These are areas of functional jurisdiction that have been
delineated so that on three particular subjects like movement of

vessels, goods and people, protection and enjoyment of fisheries and
marine resources and--I forgot the other one--here are the areas
where in these bodies of water there should be coordination and
cooperation, protection of traditional fishing grounds, benefitting from
the resources therein, ensuring interconnectivity, and ensuring the
exercise and granting of preferential rights.
Now, these are the only areas where there are shared areas of
jurisdiction between central government and Bangsamoro government.
These have been curbed out from the other waters of the Philippines
because this area unites the whole proposed Bangsamoro territory as
one integrated whole. But, again, wed like to emphasize that this is
not territory of the Bangsamoro government. This is still territory of
the Philippine government, of central government in fact. Now, this is
in contrast with Bangsamoro waters. But Bangsamoro waters are not
the same as zones of joint cooperation because Bangsamoro waters
are drawn 22.224 kilometers from the coastline of any Bangsamoro
territory.
So, ito po iyong territory but the zones which is a larger

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expanse of water is not territory.
And in the delineation, it actually
does not affect the boundaries of our waters as part of national

territory because in any case, the Bangsamoro is part of the
Philippines.
Now, how does this affect our claim over Sabah? In fact and in
relation actually to the entire peace process--because I would like to
mention na din, at the back of our heads po kasi is the participation of
Malaysia as facilitator in this process.
So, maybe it is better to
integrate the response that way. So, ang official policy natin po from
the very beginning is that we have never let go of our claim over
Sabah even if we have been under the facilitation of Malaysia, wala
pong kahit anong--our claim is the same and we still reiterate that.
We are still enforcing that but we should follow, of course, the rules of
international law. So, that is how we will proceed with our claims over
Sabah and nothing in this process, particularly in relation to delineation
of waters and zones of joint cooperation, affects our claim.
We will
pursue that in accordance with the rules of international law. So, iyon
po ay something that we have to be able to reiterate and clarify.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But I think the point that is
being illustrated here is that because the territorial waters of the
Philippines hence, the Bangsamoro waters to include Tawi-Tawi will
now already conflict with the claims of Sabah because the baselines
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are intersecting.
Sabah.
The same as in Indonesia and the same now in
How then do the residents of Tawi-Tawi regard the
Bangsamoro waters? Is that inclusive of all our claim area? In other

words, may they exploit any wealth from the sea? To what extent are
they allowed to do that? Is it our claim of exclusive economic zone of
12 miles or 22.4 kilometers or do we defer to the claim of Sabah as to
their own baselines?
MR. JULKIPLI. As I understand it, sir, there is a present line
that now separates the seas properly of the Philippines and what is
being claimed by Malaysia.../hsg
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MR. JULKIPLI.
international waters.
claimed by Malaysia as part of their
I think that was a treaty between the United
States government and the British government way back during the
colonial period and until now that is somewhat being observed,
although we are disputing the validity of that under our official claim
under international law.
Dito po sa pag-delineate ng extent of waters, there will be an
official body that will be created.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I dont think it was an
agreement between UK and the US. It was a lease that was usurped
by the British and passed on. It was a lease that they were paying to
the Sultanate of Sulu because the Sultan of Sabahthe Sultan had
given that property to the Sultanate of Sulu as a form of gratitude for
his support during a rebellion.
MR. JULKIPLI. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But that lease was usurped
then by the British when they took over Malaya.
created
And when they
the Republic of Malaysia, they passed on ownership to the
Republic of Malaysia which, of course, we contend is illegal. So is that

the way that we are going to handle that?
MR. JULKIPLI. Well, I am not really familiar, Mr. Chair, what
that line is being called right now. But if I remember correctly, there is
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that demarcation line in the seas between Sabah and Tawi-Tawi that
have been artificially drawn and we areas I said, I am not quite sure,
I have to look it up again but I think we are disputing that precisely.
But since we have processes to go through to be able to successfully
dispute that, that line will have to be observed as of now. So even in
the delineation of the waters, again, as I said, there will be an official
body that will be constituted to draw.
The demarcation line is
essentially the halfway point between the two land masses.
If the
baselines in the claims of baselines do not intercept, the demarcation

line does not apply. The demarcation line only applies when the two
baselines intersect and we take the halfway point. That has been the
modus vivendi that we have come to with Malaysia.
MR. JULKIPLI.
So in the determination of the extent of the
waters and the zones, at least for now, that will have to be observed.
But iyong final configuration, if that is the question, ide-determine pa
po iyan of an official body composed on NAMRIA, DENR and
representatives of the Bangsamoro government to determine the exact
coordinates of up to where these areas are.
It is actually a point that
never came up but I think it will be very specific to the island provinces
and should really be clarified.
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I think the next point that the professor made was about the wali
and exactly the definition of what their functions are. There is also the
constitutional question that he is essentially, the wali is essentially a
religious position. Because as I understand it, it is actually Wali Allah
which is the friend of Allah.
person.
So that brings a religious color to that
So how does that resolve between the church and state
provision and that specific question
by the professor as to what his
function truly is because the Wali is, as defined in the law,
it is a
ceremonial function.
MR. JULKIPLI. Well, from the word itself, the wali, at least as
provided in our proposed BBL, the wali will really just be a titular and
ceremonial head and therefore, wala po siyang discretionary powers,
wala siyang official government functions except to act as the face or
as the ceremonial
representation
siguro of
this
autonomous
government. In fact, when we look at the provisions on the wali, that

position does not even have a salary.
allowances.
The wali will just be given
And also in relation to the other provisions, there is
actually just one other section where the wali is given an actual
governance function.
And that is in relation to the dissolution of the
parliament when there is a vote of no confidence.
But the provision
there actually mentions that the wali, true to his nature as a titular or
ceremonial head, only declares that parliament should be dissolved
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and calls for the election. But that is really
ministerial, there is no
discretion involved there because upon the vote, the wali does not
have any choice but to declare the dissolution of the parliament and
call for the election. So really, in this proposed BBL, that is the only
actual official governance function of the wali. But for others, then he
is just envisioned to be this ceremonial head who might lead flag
ceremonies or give opening remarks or receive guests but really only
in that ceremonial capacity. But what its particular functions will be, it
is not yet provided here.
So that would be determined by the
Parliament later. What these ceremonial functions are.
But the
guidance for the Parliament with respect to the extent of breadth of

the power of the wali should be that it should be purely ceremonial,
representative or symbolic and no discretion whatsoever.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Why did both panels feel
that there was a need to have such a position?
MR. JULKIPLI. Mr. Chair, I think this has something to do with
practice of many parliamentary governments where there are actual
heads of government and there is a figurehead or a ceremonial head
of state.
So to be able to be consistent with that practice, it was
agreed that we could also opt to have this figurehead or ceremonial

head.
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Does the wali necessarily

have to be a Muslim?
MR. JULKIPLI. No, Mr. Chair. It only says here that the wali
must be an eminent resident of the Bangsamoro. So there is actually
no requirement that he has to be a religious leader or be a Muslim per
se. He just has to be an eminent resident of the Bangsamoro. And as
far as appointment is concerned, this has to be confirmed by
consensus of the Bangsamoro Parliament.
Professor, I wrote your last
point down, but now I cannot read my own handwriting.
So maybe
you can repeat the last third point that you brought up.
MR. LADJAKAHAL.
About the system of education that we
have for
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yes, correct. This actually
came up in the first briefing that we had as to the system of education,
not only the actual system of education but the administration of the
educational system came into question as to who will administer the
SUCs. Or will universities or colleges that are created by the
Bangsamoro government, will they be considered state universities or
colleges? And then now onto the question of the professor as to what
will be the system. Will it follow strictly the curricula that DepEd and
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CHED are following or will there be differences and how will those
differences be determined?
MR. JULKIPLI. Mr. Chair, I would like to make a reference to
the provision in this proposed BBL on an integrated system of quality
education.
So I would like to read that in relation to the listing of
exclusive powers. So if we look at the listing of exclusive powers, we

will see there that one of the areas where the parliament is
empowered to enact its own legislation would be on education.
And
that would mean that the regional autonomous government actually

can enact its own laws with respect to the educational system in these
places. And that would include, Mr. Chair, as you mentioned, creation
of universities or schools. But as to its appellation or whether it should
be still referred to as a state university, I think that would have to be
clarified later on.
But with respect to the integrated system of education, if I may
be allowed, Mr. Chair, to read, Although it is an exclusive power, and
yes, the Bangsamoro Government can, on its own, organize its own
educational system.
There is guidance in the BBL on Article IX,
Section 13 which says that the Bangsamoro government shall

establish, maintain and support as a top priority a complete and
integrated system of quality education and adopt an educational
framework that is relevant and responsive to the needs, ideas and
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aspirations of the Bangsamoro.
So this means, Mr. Chair, that the
Bangsamoro government should be able to determine on its own the

educational system according to its own need.
But does that mean
that it should not be correlated in any way/smv
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MR. JULKIPLI.
correlated in any way with the national
system of integration. Because that would have implications as to the

transfer of students and the uniformity of curricula. According to the
principles here, and embodied, although there is that power kailangan
pa rin po nilang makipag-coordinate somehow with the national
department of education for practical considerations of the movement
of students and teachers and integration of curricula.
Was there any discussion
as to what possible role madrasah could play in the educational

system? As an adjunct perhaps to the national educational system?
MR. JULKIPLI.
With respect to the Bangsamoro, Mr. Chair,
there is an additional listing of exclusive powers that specifically

addresses medrese or madrasah.
Bangsamoro
shall
supervise,
And its provided here that the
through
an
appropriate
ministry,
accredited medrese in the Bangsamoro. It doesnt say, Mr. Chair,

whether
or
not
it
educational system.
should
be
integrated
into
the
non-medrese
Although I think there is nothing that stops the
Bangsamoro parliament from making it part of the integrated system

since there is a mandate to make that integrated system of quality
education anyway.
Because in other countries
with large Muslim population centers, they maintain the national

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system of education but they incorporate and recognize and accredit

madrasahs for the Islamic teachings of those who are followers of
Islam. And that is the system that they have done and it seems to
work.
Because having to incorporate Islamic teaching in what is
already the regular curriculum might be a little difficult.
And, again,
the state system of education is not prepared in terms of teachers, in

terms of facilities, whereas, the madrasahs already have their own
available teachers and their facilities in the mosque usually is where
they can discuss Islamic teachings with the students.
So, Professor, is there anything else that you would like to add?
MR. LADJAKAHAL.
There is no doubt that we are opting for
quality education and that is our direction. But my specific question is,
why did the OPAPP or the framer of the basic law did not include the
national system of education under the K to 12 system? I believe that
this should be incorporated and then enhance the madrasah education
into the system which is very important to the Muslims.
ganoon iyong gagawin.
So dapat
And then there is this issue again, if you look
at the provision of the BBL, the parliament is authorized to establish a

tribal university. Why tribal? This is very divisive. Why cant just we
call it, Bangsamoro University?
very divisive.
existed never.
Because if you call it tribal, that is
Even, for example, the term Lumads, this term never

This is a creation of sociologists to further divide the
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people of Mindanao.
is a new term.
There is no such thing before as Lumad.
This
So today we are speaking of Lumad, indigenous
communities and so on and so forth. When we speak of Lumads, we

always refer to Tiruray but there are Badjaos in Tawi-Tawi elsewhere,
and so there are Lumads.
Even Tausug, Samal and even Maguindanao
Iranun are Lumads in its true sense.
So I think the term Lumads is
irrelevant in this issue. So iyong tribal university, if I may suggest, Mr.

Chairman, if that could be done, it should be called, Bangsamoro
University but not tribal university.
So iyon lang ang kuwan ko.
I think we are talking about
the same things that we maintainwe try to maintain a national

standard in terms of formal education. But in areas where the local
population chooses to support a madrasah for the teachings of Islam,
then that can bealthough it can be a part of the educational system
in those areas where they are desired.
And I think the professor puts
forth a good solution. And as I said, this seems to be the experience in

other places, mostly in European countries with large population
centersMuslim centers of population.
MR. LADJAKAHAL.
MR. JULKIPLI.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chair, if I may be allowed to make a
rejoinder.
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So actually, sir, your suggestion to integrate a K to 12

educational system in the Bangsamoro, well that is something that the
Bangsamoro will have to decide for themselves later on. If that is the
type of educational system that for them will also work, then the
Bangsamoro Basic Law is actually allowing them to do that. And as far
as integrating the medrese into this formal system, that is also
something up for the determination po of parliament later on.
And also I just like to make this quick clarification that OPAPP is
really not po the drafter of the basic law. We have a Bangsamoro
Transition Commission.
And they are the framers of this BBL. We are
here, like most of us, to support this formulation of our proposed basic
law. So I just like to clarify that for the record for the information also
of the body.
Okay, thank you.
Yes, Datu Kinoc, you would like to say something?

MR. KINOC.
Mr. Chairman, Im sorry but I just want to say
something with regard to the Lumad. I am not a Lumad, Im a pure

Blaan.
I am an indigenous person.
I used the word indigenous
person because that is the international terminology. The Lumad is

used by the Christians from Cebu, meaning, born in the community.
But we resent that because the word is in English, lu is lower and
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then mad is sira-ulo. So we dont like that.
But we remain an
indigenous person.
The Muslims, when we crafted 8371I was with the SRA, the
Social Reform Agenda of President Ramos, there were Muslims there.
But sad to say, some Muslims also do not want to be called indigenous
person. But if you look at it, remove your religion, you are an IP just
like me. I am not a Christian, I am not a Muslim; Im a Blaan.
Now, with regard to the tribal university, that is the clamor of
some of the tribal people, the indigenous people.
practice their customs and traditions.
That where will they
Now, alongside with the
madrasah, you have the madaris which teaches Islamic values and
cultures.
But here is an indigenous person mixed with the western
education, he doesnt even know if he is an IP or not. Because he has

already taught English, he speaks Tagalog. Tagalog is foreign to us.
English is very foreign to us but yet we are forced because this is part
of imperialistic injunction.
You know, learn the language, learn the
dialect, you follow him. But we want to preserve our culture.

You know, Mr. Chairman, the Blaans are about 500 or 400,000.
But there are only less than a hundred thousand or 50,000 who speaks
like me, who has no registered religion with the SEC.
Because even
among the Christians, I said, I cannot join you because there are too
many of you. I remain my tribe, I remain a Blaan and Ill die as one.
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Even the MILF, even the MNLF, Misuari tried to convince me to become
Islam, I said, Chairman, I cannot.
Chairman Murad said, Brother,
become Islam. I said I cannot because everything in me must remain

with me until my dying days.
Thank you very much for
that.
Dr. Dans, yes, you wanted to add something.
MS. DANS.
I just like to input regarding the assets of the ARMM
in non-ARMM territories. I am talking about the 96 government center

in Zamboanga City.
As you well know, Zamboanga City doesnt want
to have anything to do with the ARMM.
It just wants the properties. I
hope the BBL should be able to capture that the assets of/rjo
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MS. DANS.
that the assets of the ARMM will be with the
Bangsamoro for the discretion of the Bangsamoro people and nothing

herein should include that the city government on which it is located
will have the right to purchase it because the 96 government center is
strategic to the three island provinces. And if we have the vision of an
educational system, that will be to address the needs of the education,
of the three island provinces, then Zamboanga City is the most ideal,
and we have the asset there. It was the vision of Rear Admiral Romulo
Espaldon, we bought the property for P5.00 per square meter. Kami
po ang bumili niyan.
Kaya if I may say, if it was intended for the
ARMM, then therefore the institution that should inherit it should be

the Bangsamoro, no more, no less.
Mr. Chair, thank you.
Well, as to the different
LGUs there, one of the central pillars of this basic law is the concept of
self-determination. So, I suppose that in the end those determinations
we will find as to the results of the plebiscite, Zamboanga City is
precisely an example of that where the plebiscite spoke that
Zamboanga would not be included. So, again, that issue has come up
since, but we leave it to the local populace to decide on that matter.
So, I would now like to call on from the Tacurong Vicariate,
Father Antonio Pueyo to speak on the matter before us.
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M.R. CATADMAN III-6
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Go ahead, Father.
MR. PUEYO.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, and ladies and
gentlemen.
I represent the religious and the academic sector.
So, the
position of our Archbishop Cardinal is publicly very clear it, is in

support of the peace process.
And since the BBL is the output and the
produce of the peace process, therefore, he is also in support of the

BBL.
In fact, he was present at the signing of the framework
agreements in Malacaang. So, well, as under the Archbishop since I

am a priest of the Archbishop, I looked into the law itself. I read the
whole thing.
And regarding the general principles, I think its
beautiful. Great. The general principles are very good.
And then I
try to look into the details, the law, its so long. I cannot remember all
the details, but as the North Cotabato delegation is saying there were
some areas that we might need some clarification.
Right now, for
example, by listening Im clarified about the role of the wali which I

have read there. And another clarification perhaps is in the part there
of boundaries, the parliament can do some changes, adjustments in
the boundaries. I am not too sure what this means. Does this mean
adjustment of the boundaries within the Bangsamoro? Or adjustment
of the boundaries outside? I mean, expansion of the Bangsamoro. So,
things like that. These are the things that need some clarification and
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M.R. CATADMAN III-6
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certainly, I guess, Congress will look into the details. But certainly the
general principles are very good, so its just the details of the law will
be embodying these general principles. So I am giving an example in
the boundaries. Im not too sure what that means that the parliament
can do some adjustments in the boundaries.
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, we would like to hear
the specifics of your concerns. Because in principle, I do not think you
will find anyone who is against peace, and if this is an opportunity for
that, then we must all work very hard to make it come true. But to
make it come true, the specific modalities of implementation and
administration, and again the sharing of power between the national
government and the Bangsamoro government have to be very, very
precisely laid down. And that is why, again, Father, whatever detailed
insights you might have besides the general principles of the
Bangsamoro Basic Law we would very much like to hear it.
MR. PUEYO.
Yes, thats why I have a question with regard the
boundaries. It says there, parliament can adjust the boundaries of the

Bangsamoro. So thats what I would like to ask, what does that mean?
Boundaries within? Boundaries outside? Or in expansion.
Im guessing within, but
never mind, let us ask Atty. Julkipli.
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MR. JULKIPLI.
Well, this refers po to the constituent LGUs
lang, so within the Bangsamoro only.

Within.
Within iyan
because, again, for example the boundaries of the parliamentary

districts will have to be defined by parliament, number one. Kaya they
have the power to create LGUs up to the municipal level so, again,
those
boundaries
will
Bangsamoro parliament.
be
specified
by
the
parliament
of
the
But they cannot expand the external
boundarieshow do you call that, they are not external because they
are still within the boundaries of the republic, but they cannot extend
or even diminish the area that is defined as the Bangsamoro.
MR. PUEYO.
Yes, thank you.
That is one thing I was not so
clear about.
Well, I mean, again, the
fact that a question has been asked means maybe we should clarify, di
ba? Para maging maliwanag na maliwanag na ganoon na talaga ang
function na binibigay natin sa parliament na makapag-redraw ng
boundaries within the Bangsamoro.
MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. So, to reiterate, in this BBL, particularly in
Article V, Section 3, Number 57, iyong reference to the power of the
parliament to alter the political boundaries.
As mentioned, this only
pertains to the constituent areas, meaning areas that have voted to

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M.R. CATADMAN III-6
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become part of Bangsamoro.
So this will not affect the borders or
boundaries of LGUs that are outside or not part of the Bangsamoro

territory.
And its also good to be reminded that when parliament
chooses to do this mayroon pong plebiscitary requirement. So, its not

as easy as passing a law.
There must be a plebiscite that must
approve the changes that parliament will do with respect to the

boundaries of these LGUs, like what we do with other LGUs under our
Local Government Code. So, hindi naman ho siya matter of enactment
lang, it has to win in a plebiscite called for that purpose.
Also, with respect to local governments and the constituent units
of the Bangsamoro it is also good to be reminded of the provision in
Article VI on Inter-Governmental Relations it says there po that
privileges enjoyed by local government units under existing law shall
not be diminished, unless otherwise altered, modified, or reformed for
good governance according to a law. So, therefore, mayroon pong
limitation under this BBL for the Bangsamoro with respect to local
governments. Hindi ganoon sila ka-free. There has to be a solid, good
governance basis to do this.
So, therefore, the BBL, to a certain
extent, is providing safeguards so that maiwasan natin iyong possible

abuses if we are thinking along that line. So, kailangan po for good
governance purposes lang, and it should be pursuant to a law enacted
by parliament and must be supported by a plebiscite.
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THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay, Attorney, thank you

for that explanation.
And I believe we have come to the end of all
those who have asked to speak before the Joint Committees

here/mrjc.
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before the Joint
Committees here today?

Just to be absolutely sure, is there anybody else who would like
to bring their ideas and their insights?
Yes, please go ahead.
MR. CABAYA.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.
Im Board Member Loreto Cabaya of the 1st District of Cotabato.

Its in relation with the boundaries.
In the BBL, the bill, we
cannot find a mechanism on how to settle boundaries between

provinces, while in Republic Act 7160, it is provided there. But it has
been a knowledge that the Bangsamoro parliament will pass its own
Local Government Code. If ever that the parliament will pass, I would
like to suggest that there must be a mechanism in the BBL to ensure
that we settle boundaries within the provinces of the Bangsamoro and
that of outside of the Bangsamoro. Because we have one experience
with that of Sultan Kudarat wherein the Sangguniang Panlalawigan of
Cotabato and that of Sangguniang Panlalawigan of Sultan Kudarat had
a dispute with the boundaries of Columbio and Tulunan. It took us a
lot of time and then eventually, we decided to file the case in the
court. And we do not want that happen with the Bangsamoro and that
of outside of the Bangsamoro. So there must be a mechanism on how
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to settle these thingsthe boundaries between the Bangsamoro and

that of outside of the Bangsamoro territory.
I think the Bangsamoro
Basic Law has a very clear definition of the Bangsamoro as it has been
suggested.
Now, I think theres a valid point here because all adjacent LGUs,
usually municipalities and provinces, have a boundary dispute and for
the simple reason that IRA includes area.
So the possibility that the boundaries as defined by one LGU is
different from the boundary defined by the Bangsamoro. What is the
mechanism for us to resolve that? The mechanism between LGUs is to
try first between the LGUs to decide between them, the sanggunians
meet and they try to come to an agreement. If not, then it goes to
court. But again, this is a slightly different situation.
Do we have a mechanism to resolve such issues?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Actually we do have this mechanism, sir.
It
will be part of the intergovernmental relations mechanism.

If I may be allowed to read this IGR mechanism is precisely put
in
place
to
address
disputes
and
issues
relating
to
the
intergovernmental relations. So that would include relations between

the Bangsamoro and central government and by extension also to local
governments within and outside.
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I think the wordings and the language of this provision with

respect
to
the
IGR
mechanism
is
actually
flexible
enough
to
accommodate even disputes with respect to boundaries. Now, Im not

saying that they already have a set of rules to apply to address these
issues but the guidance here is that the way they should resolve it
should be through regular consultations, continuing negotiations and in
a non-adversarial manner. So these are very loose guidance as of now
which means that there is a need for a more defined set of rules or
procedure to address possible conflicts such as that.
Now, as to what law will apply, because this is an IGR issue, then
there should be reference to national law
What do you mean by
IGR?
MR. JULKIPLI.
Intergovernmental relations, sirsorry.
This is where you have a
problem inyou were putting yourself, the Bangsamoro government,

on the same footing as the republic.
constitutional questions are arising.
That is why some of these
I believe that LGUs should, as
much as possible, try to find a resolution of such boundary disputes

before bringing it up to the highest level. And even then, I believe at
the local government level, dapat iano na natin. We can elevate it to
the courts at that point because it is not necessarily a political
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adjustment or a political accommodation but a legal one where we go

back into the records and see what, in fact, is the definitionwhere is
the boundary between one LGU and in this case, Bangsamoro.
So again, I think as a general principle, it would be a good idea
to try to resolve all of these issues at the lowest possible level. Huwag
laging dinadala sa itaas.
aakyat bago bababa ulit.
No. 1, it will take so much longer because

As much as possible, we givethe best
chance of resolution will be if that decision is made at the lowest

possible level.
That way, hindi masyadong magulo, hindi rin
masyadong matagal and it will hear all of the concerns of the locals,
local populace that is affected by the question whatever this body or
mechanism will be.
MR. CABAYA. I have another question.
Thank you, Senator.
This is not on the content of the bill but on the process because
we know as an ordinary person that important legislation will be
coupled with implementing rules and regulations issued by the Office of
the President.
So in this case, we need to have implementing rules
and regulations because having such, I believe it will delay again the
implementation of the Bangsamoro Basic Law.
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The
Office
of
the
President
will
still
have
to
issue
the
implementing rules and regulations on the implementation of the Basic

Law or there is no need?
No. There will definitely
be implementing rules and regulations for such a complicated and

extensive measurelaw. Were essentially creating a new government
and thats why all of these implementing rules and regulations will still
be required.
Okay. Yes, Professor.
MR. LADJAKAHAL.
Assuming, Mr. Chairman, that the BBL has
been already ratified and the President has already appointed the
members of the transition authority, generally, many observers are
saying, if the election will be done in 2016, that would be too short for
the transition authority to govern.
Is there a possibility that the
parliament will not join the election by 2016, instead extend it at least
for three years before the regulation election?
No.
Because it is
anathema to our general principles that we do not have electedDo

we want to get to the point where we have elected representatives as
quickly as possible? To have unelected representatives for three years
is again anathema to our general principles of the representation,
suffrage, all of the basic concepts of democracy.
178

BRHGonzales
IV-6
October 8, 2014
2:33 p.m.
6
MR. JULKIPLI.
Mr. Chair, I just want to make some additions
to that. Actually po, we have provisions in our proposed basic law that
actually categorically says that the BTA shall be dissolved upon the
elections in May 2016. In other words, the process with respect to the
BTA will have to make do with the transition period that we have. And
that is why, of course, with all due appreciation to the efforts of our
legislators, you know, to try to fast-track and keep to that schedule.
But again, just to be very clear, even in our proposed BBL po, the BTA
will be dissolved immediately upon the election and qualification of the
first Bangsamoro Parliament and that first regulation election shall be
held in May 2016.
Yes. As a matter of fact,
most of the proposals, if not all of the proposals that Ive heard, were
to shorten the time when the transitional government is sitting and as
quickly as possible, transition to the elected representatives in
parliament.
Again, because of our hesitation to have, for too long a
time, a non-elected parliamentary or a non-elected body running the

administration because again, the concept and principle of selfdetermination is central to everything that we are doing here and in
creating the Bangsamoro and in passing the Bangsamoro Basic Law.
So with that, if there are no other comments that want to be
made, if no one elsebrhg
179

HSGayapa
V-6
October 8, 2014
2:43 p.m.
1
THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). if no one else wanted to

take the floor, first of all I would like to thank youall of those who
participated here today, for all the comments and all of the
suggestions and all of the discussions that we have allowed today and
partaken in today, it has been very constructive and we will come
awaythe Committee comes away with a great deal more knowledge
than we started off at the beginning of these hearings.
Thank you very much to everyone who participated and with
that, we are adjourned. [Applause]
[THE HEARING WAS ADJOURNED AT 2:44 P.M.]/hsg
180

BBL IN SENATE - Public Hearing On BBL in Cotabato City Oct 8 2014

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Republic of the Philippines

CONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES

Wednesday, October 8, 2014

Notre Dame University Gymnasium

Senate Bill No. 2408 An Act Providing

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

GUESTS/ RESOURCE PERSONS:

Atty. Mohammad Al-amin Julkipli

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

Mr. Janimah Pandi

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

AT 9:53 A.M., HON. FERDINAND R.

Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation, this Senate

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

Regional Legislative Assembly, we have Atty. Bai Israhayda Sinsuat,

Archdiocese of Cotabato; Sister Maria Fe Gerodias, Religious Virgin

acknowledge the presence of the other resource persons when they

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

will be conducting hearings further into next month and probably

Thank you, Senator

Ang karaniwang sagot, Dapat nating igalang ang ating

We must learn to respect our differences.

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

ating Mindanao ang pinag-usapan, doon nakatuon ang pansin sa ating

At isa sa mahalagang bagay kung bakit malayo na ang

narating nitong usapang pangkapayapaan sa Mindanao

pagkilala at paggalang sa mga pagkakaiba na ating nabanggit. Ito ang

Sa araw na ito nang unang

pagdinig ng Bangsamoro Basic Law, sa tingin ko panahon na para mas

tayo ng isang hinaharap. Let us build a future kung saan gagamitin

ang mga bagay, mga pangarap at

mga aspirasyon kung saan tayo nagkakaisa.

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

makita iyong mga bagay, pangarap at aspirasyon, iyon ang pag-aralan

Ang isa sa pinakamagandang paraan at

pagpapakita ng paggalang ay ang pakikinig natin sa bawat isa.

Thank you, Senator

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS).

easiest and most orderly

procedure would be for us to allow all of our resource persons to

The Bangsamoro Basic Law.

And, again, we will

It is the interest of the

And so we will try to be as liberal as possible in

allowing everyone to speak. But, again, it would be I think very much

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

Magandang umaga po sa lahat ng mga panauhin natin

dito sa forum na ito.

consultations among our employees to be able to learn more of their

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

(5) We are in the process of complying with the request of the

undertakings for peace.

If not, could we have a copy so that we can put

It will be certainly helpful because of the breadth and

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, the Honorable

Senator Bongbong Marcos.

And my respect to the other chairman,

Chairman of the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation

comprehensive and lasting solution to the peace and order problem in