http://rapidshare.com/files/111614009/LOG_30-04.txt.

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CONVERSACIÓN ENTRE UN ADMIN DE LOS SERVIDORES .COM Y VARIOS DE LOS JUGADORES

AFECTADOS POR EL INCIDENTE CON LAS ALDEAS NATARES EN EL SPEED.NET (30/Abril/2008)

NOTA: Los espacios en blanco corresponden a conjuntos de lineas consecutivas del

log, irrelevantes para el tema (conversaciones paralelas, cambios de nick,
entradas y salidas de usuarios...)

[16:43:29] [leiden] [flying_fortress]

[16:43:54] [@flying_fortress] leiden, I guess I am

[16:44:16] [leiden] [flying_fortress] only one question

[16:44:53] [leiden] do u really think what u wrote or u simply try to help Unknown
despite he has no reason?

[16:45:56] [@flying_fortress] leiden, I wouldn't have written that unless I think

it was right for me to do that

[16:47:12] [leiden] [flying_fortress] well, cabo wrote so many stupid things that
we cannot know when something is right or no

[16:48:22] [leiden] but u know perfectly that the procedure has not been legal
[16:48:47] [leiden] you cannot put a new law and apply it for the past

[16:52:25] [@flying_fortress] leiden, it has been discussed with the German office
and they said "yes, this is okay"

[16:53:40] [leiden] [flying_fortress] yeahh, because if not the will lose money
[16:54:06] [leiden] thats the problem
[16:54:46] [leiden] you don't recognize you do it for the money

[16:56:37] [@flying_fortress] leiden - we do it because we don't like mass

disabling wws/construction plans

[16:57:07] [DiegoElCigala] but, the terms say that travian can modify or amend
rules with effect for the future, in our case, admin modify rules in a current
game, without a previos announcement

[16:57:24] [DiegoElCigala] that's why our complains

[17:01:33] [leiden] [flying_fortress] please, I'm not 5 years old...

[17:01:56] [@flying_fortress] well, the office of course wants money

[17:01:58] [@flying_fortress] ;-)

[17:02:17] [leiden] And I understand it

[17:02:24] [@flying_fortress] but I myself as admin want to be in control of what
happens and the way things run
[17:02:26] [leiden] every people wants money

[17:02:37] [@flying_fortress] and this is something we cannot allow right now

[17:02:58] [leiden] but you can avoid it for the next server
[17:03:23] [DiegoElCigala] u simply can't change rules in a current game, just
change for futures games
[17:03:46] [DiegoElCigala] because u destroy all strategy and organitation that a
group of players make
[17:03:55] [leiden] does a referee change the rules in the middle of a match?
[17:03:56] [leiden] NO

[17:05:18] •›› Nick: [DiegoElCigala] is now known as [kAiSeR007]

[17:05:22] [@flying_fortress] leiden, this is not a game of soccer

[17:07:04] [kAiSeR007] what leiden wants yo soy is that the rules can be change in
a game in process
[17:07:12] [kAiSeR007] to say*
[17:07:18] [kAiSeR007] can`t*
[17:07:18] [kAiSeR007] xD

[17:08:48] [leiden] [kAiSeR007] he understans what I wanna say, but he don't want
to read it...

[17:12:30] [@flying_fortress] kAiSeR007, they can and we may do that if we feel it

is necessary
[17:12:49] [@flying_fortress] I do agree this is a nice strategy to begin with but
we admins just don't like it

[17:12:54] [@flying_fortress] and neither does the office

[17:13:09] [kAiSeR007] "TRAVIAN reserves the right to modify or amend these Terms
with effect for the future at any time should this seem necessary (for instance in
order to adjust them to the legal and statutory situation, to expand the spectrum
of services of TRAVIAN etc.) and provided that this does not discriminate against
the user in bad faith"

[17:13:22] [kAiSeR007] with effect for the future

[17:13:33] [kAiSeR007] http://travian.com/spielregeln.php?agb
[17:13:41] [kAiSeR007] not present xD
[17:13:50] [@flying_fortress] §13 Correction clause
[17:13:50] [@flying_fortress] If individual regulations of this set of rules
should be ineffective, it does not affect the validity of the remaining
regulations of this set of rules. The administrators commit themselves to replace
ineffective regulations with new regulations which replace the ineffective
regulations in legally permissible way. These enter into force without delay and
will be used in any current case. This also applies to regulation gaps contained
in
[17:13:50] [@flying_fortress] the set of rules. To correct the gap the
administrators commit themselves to work toward a correction, that abides by the
intended purpose of the existing rules.
[17:13:52] [kAiSeR007] that's why we're complaning
[17:14:21] [@flying_fortress] well, that#s in .com game rules (should be in .net
too) and we may, by this, add a rule if we see a gap and apply it

[17:15:45] [kAiSeR007] that part is in the game rules or in terms?

[17:15:51] [@flying_fortress] game rules

[17:16:20] [kAiSeR007] http://travian.net/spielregeln.php

[17:16:23] [kAiSeR007] as you can see

[17:16:44] [@flying_fortress] I cannot read spanish

[17:16:51] [kAiSeR007] poni 13 doen't exist
[17:16:51] [@flying_fortress] so bad luck here
[17:16:56] [kAiSeR007] just look for pint 13
[17:16:57] [kAiSeR007] xD
[17:17:02] [kAiSeR007] isn't there
[17:17:02] [@flying_fortress] it could be anything
[17:17:04] [kAiSeR007] only 12
[17:17:06] [kAiSeR007] xD
[17:17:09] [@flying_fortress] well, it could be 12, too
[17:17:23] [kAiSeR007] check that with .net admin :P
[17:17:37] [@flying_fortress] http://travian.co.uk/spielregeln.php <-- no 13 here
either

[17:17:57] [@flying_fortress] http://travian.de/spielregeln.php neither here

[17:18:27] [kAiSeR007] and if
future effect
[17:18:32] [kAiSeR007] or can
[17:18:54] [@flying_fortress]
the Terms
an admin change rules, that change have to be for a
be for a current game?
apart from this - the WWs are by no means a part of

[17:19:05] [@flying_fortress] and neither are the way we handle them

[17:19:35] [kAiSeR007] ^^
[17:19:47] [@flying_fortress] what rather applies is this:
[17:19:48] [@flying_fortress] The game’s functions vary depending upon the
selected tariff and can be modified at any time. The valid technical and other
game requirements at each given time can be found on the Travian website.
[17:20:07] [@flying_fortress] § 2 Content of the service , III
[17:20:20] [@flying_fortress] and even better IV: # The game and the game worlds
respectively are continuously updated, adjusted, extended and modified in order to
make the game interesting for a large number of players long term. Therefore, the
user only obtains a right to use the game in its current version at any given
time.

[17:20:59] [@flying_fortress] mind the "for a large number of players"

[17:21:06] [kAiSeR007] i know all of that, just ask if rules can be change for a
current game instead for a future effect
[17:21:06] [kAiSeR007] ?
[17:21:46] [@flying_fortress] The game and the game worlds respectively are
continuously updated, adjusted, extended and modified
[17:22:08] [kAiSeR007] okey, admins can do with worlds whatever they want
[17:22:12] [leiden] [flying_fortress] so, if u want tomorrow to change the rules
and erase by them all the players with more than 20 villages... you can do it?
[17:22:30] [@flying_fortress] theoretically yes, practically not
[17:22:40] [leiden] why practically not?
[17:22:42] [@flying_fortress] because it would contradict IV as quoted above
[17:22:46] [xxx] that's te point

[17:23:03] [xxx] why practically this can't do it, and what has succeed in .net
yes?
[17:23:05] [@flying_fortress] because it would not make the game more interesting
to the majority
[17:23:11] [xxx] why not?
[17:23:15] [xxx] the majority are cows

[17:23:34] [xxx] they would have an oportunity

[17:23:36] [xxx] if you do that
[17:23:37] [xxx] ;)
[17:23:40] [leiden] yeah
[17:23:45] [@flying_fortress] getting more villages is part of the game

[17:24:01] [xxx] gettin natare villages and doing whatever you want, too
[17:24:06] [Ender] xD
[17:24:06] [@flying_fortress] and limiting this would have to be done via code
update
[17:24:12] [xxx] in the moment you conquer the village, it becames yours
[17:24:18] [xxx] becomes* ?
[17:24:21] [xxx] sorry the bad english :$
[17:24:36] [@flying_fortress] but natars have to be attractive to many players if
possible
[17:24:40] [xxx] why you can convert your offensive village in capital then?

[17:24:48] [xxx] flying_fortress, this sounds in money

[17:24:55] [@flying_fortress] yes

[17:24:59] [@flying_fortress] that#s what Travian is about

[17:25:03] [@flying_fortress] generating money
[17:25:04] [xxx] this is what we have said
[17:25:14] [xxx] and this is what he has refused
[17:25:25] [@flying_fortress] and we like the majority to have as much fun as
possible
[17:25:41] [kAiSeR007] much people having fun =much people expending money
[17:25:42] [xxx] then you should put a natare village to every player

[17:25:56] [@flying_fortress] that would defy the sense of having them

[17:26:21] [kAiSeR007] but at the begining all people had the same oportunities to
get a natar

[17:26:54] [@flying_fortress] and they will, by our decision, continue to have the
same chances still with the same number of villages available
[17:26:55] [kAiSeR007] if they dind't get one, it's not our problem
[17:26:55] [kAiSeR007] xD
[17:27:33] [xxx] flying_fortress does it means that if one server all the people
who has natare villages make a coalition, the admin will broke it?
[17:27:40] [@flying_fortress] no
[17:27:41] [xxx] that if in*
[17:27:43] [xxx] why?

[17:27:46] [@flying_fortress] not necessarily

[17:27:54] [@flying_fortress] there is a difference in defending villages and
'removing' them
[17:27:57] [kAiSeR007] and what about canceling the erase of an account
[17:27:57] [xxx] "the others" wouldn't have any fun
[17:27:58] [kAiSeR007] ??
[17:28:11] [@flying_fortress] I will not comment on that
[17:28:13] [kAiSeR007] that have a natar

[17:28:28] [@flying_fortress] well, the others may or may not decide to take
action

[17:28:36] [xxx] flying_fortress, but the case is that nobody ask us what we would
do with this villages
[17:28:39] [@flying_fortress] but removing ww villages is out of the question
[17:28:52] [@flying_fortress] DELETING them happens
[17:28:52] [kAiSeR007] that another point of our complaings
[17:28:59] [@flying_fortress] and we add them again (occasionally)
[17:29:02] [xxx] this will became in a new hope if all the really wonders fall
[17:29:09] [kAiSeR007] admin.net cancel an account thar was recoming
[17:29:13] [kAiSeR007] because ir had a natar
[17:29:25] [@flying_fortress] as I said, I will not comment on that
[17:29:27] [kAiSeR007] removing*
[17:29:30] [kAiSeR007] ok
[17:29:31] [kAiSeR007] xD
[17:29:43] [Ender] xDDD

[17:29:51] [xxx] flying_fortress, this villages will be in standby

[17:29:56] [xxx] ONLY in standby

[17:30:06] [xxx] would be*

[17:30:08] [@flying_fortress] no, they are practically removed from the game to
the majority of players

[17:30:31] [xxx] well, when you put 10M deffenses in your ww village
[17:30:33] [xxx] you are doing the same
[17:30:37] [@flying_fortress] no

[17:30:49] [xxx] why not?

[17:30:50] [@flying_fortress] they can, technically, still be conquered by anyone

[17:31:04] [xxx] "technically"

[17:31:36] [@flying_fortress] yes, I doubt enough people could cooperate to get

them

[17:31:36] [Tim0n2] single villages aren't "technically" capitals, which is what

the rules state

[17:31:59] [@flying_fortress] ww villages are different if you didn't notice yet

[17:32:11] [@flying_fortress] or can any normal village or capital have a ww?

[17:32:44] [kAiSeR007] and what about the trops lost on natars that he had lost
because of improving new rules?
[17:33:12] [@flying_fortress] which troops? used to conquer them?

[17:33:32] [xxx] yes

[17:33:35] [@flying_fortress] that's something someone else has to decide

[17:33:37] [Tim0n2] the ones that wouldn't have been wasted if the rule was
"improved" before and not after
[17:33:44] [xxx] and the villages this people has to sacrificate
[17:33:46] [xxx] to do this

[17:34:01] [@flying_fortress] well, I can't

[17:34:12] [@flying_fortress] never said I could

[17:34:15] [@flying_fortress] never said I would

[17:34:23] [koba] xD
[17:34:25] [@flying_fortress] because I am just some backwater .com admin
[17:34:25] [xxx] xDD
[17:34:29] [koba] who cans?
[17:34:38] [@flying_fortress] who is going to eat something now
[17:34:42] •›› Nick: [flying_fortress] is now known as [ff-away]

[17:35:02] [xxx] ff-away , thanks for all, at least you have been honest
[17:35:02] [koba] who can?*

[17:35:19] [kAiSeR007] thanks for your time ff-away

[17:35:23] [xxx] enjoy your meal ;)