WATER WELL BOARD: HEARING, AUGUST 22, 2013

VINCENZO PELLINOS COMPLAINT AGAINST DERRY WELL COMPANY

Board Members of Record:
STEVE SMITH, PUMP INSTALLER
MICHELLE ROBBINS, DES
RICK CHORMANN, STATE GEOLOGIST

DAVE HUNT, WATER WELL CONTRACTOR

RICK SCHOFIELD, STAFF
ROGER SKILLINGS, WATER WELL CONTRACTOR

*BOARD:= Water Well Board (noted for each board member)

*Machain = Robert Machian, Pump Installer, Derry Well Co.
*McKissick = Hugh McKissick, Water Well Contractor, Derry Well Co.
*Pellino = Vincenzo Pellino
*Toop = Audra Toop, on behalf of Vincenzo Pellino
BOARD: Next, Pellino & Derry Well Company. Ah, I see Derry Well Here, I dont know Mr. Pellino.
PELLINO: Right Here
BOARD: Ok, Ill get back to you. Ok Thank you. Rick can you brief us on this a little bit.
BOARD: Sure, we received a complaint from Mr. Pellino about a well that was constructed for him by Derry Well
Company, ah, at 377 Pine River Road in Effingham. Um, the well completion report shows that the depth is 265 feet, the
depth to bedrock is 225 feet, the casing is 232 feet, and the well yield is 20 gallons per minute. This was a contract job,
that included 20 feet of casing in the original price, ah the invoice you have, in case, they installed 232 feet of casing, so
there was an additional charge for 212 feet of casing, um that casing was disputed, it ended up going to small claims
court and um the complaint indicates that there is some contradictory information between the well completion report
that was submitted to the court for the well and the invoice. Ah there were differences in the completion date, one it
was May 23, 2012 the other June 20th 2012, ah differences in the well depth, one it was 285 feet the other one indicated
two hundred sixty, 285 the other one indicated 265 and that the depths to the bedrock was indicated as 225 on one and
hund, and 220 on the other, and Mr. Pellino questioned the, ah whether the depth to bedrock was really that deep and
if they really installed that much casing. Ah at the time the complaint was received, we had not received a well
completion report for the well um we did receive one shortly after um on June 17th which was actually one year after the
well was constructed.
BOARD: So it was late?
BOARD: It was late, ah, I conducted a site visit with Mr. Pellino at the property on July 12th I noticed Ive noted in the
record that the, that it was non-conforming that the well was 50 feet from the edge of pine river road and the well
completion report submitted by Derry Well Company does indicate that on the well completion report Ah and that the
well was grouted.
BOARD: Do we have non-conforming?
BOARD: We do not have a non-conforming location form. Um now I didnt, with the help of the .Geological Survey I
conducted a inventory of wells on Pine River Road in Effingham ah because we thought it was deeper ledge in that area
and NHDES was kind enough to generate a map for uspass it along thereI also have pictures of the well sent you
copies but I have some color photos as well. The map does need some explanation. Um Pass it along.
BOARD: And Rick what what violation(inaudible)..with derry wells. Is there any violation with Derry Wells?
BOARD: Well we dont have the non-conforming location form
BOARD: OK
BOARD: So thats the only one that I noted.
BOARD: And the report was late
BOARD: Yes, and the report was late
BOARD: It sounds like the report was generated because of the complaint came in.
BOARD: Well theres two well completion reports. One that was submitted to the court at an earlier date, we have
copies of both

BOARD: Which one are we

BOARD: and we received one from Derry Well Company afterwards.
BOARD: Now to just look at the map just wanted to explain it a little bit. It shows, this is the road running west to east,
thats Pine River Road, and you can see the wells located we have in our database with the blue dots BDK is the depth to
bedrock and then total depth. So um, and the lot, thats highlighted in red is Mr. Pellinos lot and you can see that we
have a well that was drilled right next door. The neighbors well with a depth to bedrock 235 feet and the well depth of
423 feet and you can see way to the west theres another well with depth to bedrock 203 feet total depth 422 and that
the two in the middle dont have a depth to bedrock because those are both gravel wells.
BOARD: ok thats what I thought.
BOARD: 90 foot gravel wells ((inaudible))
BOARD: Yeah, yeah. One of them is 52 the other one is 89. So that shows you that is that deep to bedrock in that area.
BOARD: and the blue contours are are those saturated thickness or water .(inaudible)
BOARD: saturated thickness. One of them is 80 the one at the top, its hard to see
BOARD: (inaudible) the river
BOARD: and the one on the bottom are 40
BOARD: Just an fyi for the board, um doesnt really matter with (the) casings.
BOARD: I agree
BOARD: Just gives an indication
BOARD: all that matters is that we have wells right next to each other and the rock changes so sometimes you gotta put
more (inaudible) in some wells than others.
BOARD: Right, right
BOARD: This is helpful information for us but dont use this as gospel in every time we look at a well.
BOARD: Right.
BOARD: So we got the completion report was late, and which completion report is correct, and the other is the nonconforming well.
BOARD: Rick, do we have two different well completion reports?
BOARD: We do. We have one well completion report that was submitted to the court. You can tell because its
stamped, its certified on the back.
BOARD: Is that the one with the notary on it?
BOARD: Yeah.
BOARD: Yeah, its notarized
BOARD: Thats the one sent to the court.
BOARD: (inaudible)
BOARD: Yeah, that one was signed by Bob Machain and that was dated completion date June 20th 2012 and then you
have the well completion report they submitted to the board on June 17th um that and I have the original, and its easy
to tell its got the blue ink but um, the one that was submitted to the board by Derry Well Company date stamped June
17th the one that was sent to the courts at an earlier date is date stamped June 14th because that was submitted by Mr.
Pellino along with the complaint.
BOARD: Ok
BOARD: a little confusing, but
BOARD: Yeah ((inaudible))
BOARD: The difference here is that the one submitted to the court, the well completion date was June 20th and the
one submitted to the board, the completion date was May 23rd
BOARD: Who is the qualified individual for Derry Well?
BOARD: Hugh McKissick. And Hugh signed the one that was submitted to the board. I guess thats how you can tell
the difference. (Thats the best one.)

BOARD: and anything else.

BOARD: No, thats it.
BOARD: differences on the yield ((inaudible)) is wrong. There is a number of discrepancies between these two reports
but
BOARD: We cant have two issues sitting in front of us now
BOARD: Yeah, but lets take, lets first bring Derry Well here and ask them what report is right, why we have two
different reports
BOARD: I dont think thats why were here today
BOARD: Ok, were here today because Mr. Pellino has a complaint.
BOARD: I think thats a different matter. I dont think its something we should address. Why we have two reports, I
dont think it has to do with this
BOARD: Some of this is legality between the two parties
BOARD: The way I was reading the complaint is
BOARD: this board is here to regulate licensed drillers and pump installers. Some of this is legality back and forth so
BOARD: ((inaudible)) strategy
BOARD: Strategy.
BOARD: Ahh So Id like both Hugh and Bob come to the table and introduce yourselves. (inaudible) get your side of this
whats going on here
MACHAIN: Bob Machain, Derry Well Company
MCKISSICK: Hugh McKissick, Derry Well
BOARD: So, I guess the first thing I will say is why the two reports
MACHAIN: Well I can give you a quick analogy on that. Ahh Mr. Pellino, we I was asking him, you know, can you give us
a check for the casings, I dont believe you have this amount of casing in there. I wrote down in my little log book um
what I what we had up there and I was off by the footage on it all right. I apologized it was off. You know it was a
contract price, we hit some good water up there.
BOARD: First, hold on
MACHAIN: Yes sir
BOARD: Why the two reports?
MACHAIN: Because he needed one right away he said to send me something down in writing stating that you have the
casings 232 feet of pipe on there. So I wrote one up, sent him down one he said you get me the report that says 232 feet
of casings you have in there and I will send you a check guaranteed. Now, I..I
BOARD: Still not answering. How do you turn around, Hughs really the one whos supposed to sign the report, hes the
qualified individual.
MACHAIN: Ok
BOARD: so you know, if you would have gone just had Hugh do what youre supposed to do, he wouldve looked at it
and said its its its wrong. Im not saying that the office, or even in most offices, will do part of the report and get the
report, and that way the qualified individual looks at it and say yes everythings good in it, so.
MACHAIN: I can appreciate that. It wasnt done with malice. It wasnt done to mislead him We had a contract price on it,
um and we got him water, we had the right amount of casing in there that was the disputed factor in it which it was the
monetary value of this and I apologize, it was for him it wasnt II thought I had it right to be honest with you, and I was
off by what? 20 feet on the depth. Is that what it was? Is that where youre seeing the discrepancy on there?
BOARD: Five feet of depth to bedrock ((inaudible)) discrepancy between these two, theres 5 gallons (inaudible), the
area drilled
BOARD: I wouldnt accept it like this (inaudible)
BOARD: Which doesnt answer the question

BOARD: So what youre saying is, is that by you doing the report and not having him check it, there was some mistakes
made and it wasnt in malice. Thats all I
MACHAIN: (inaudible) Yeah, I wasnt trying to mislead anyone, like I said we had water it was a good well we did what
we did
BOARD: (inaudible) the casings, thats all
MACHAIN: I wasnt trying to mislead anybody on this he was very concerned he had some paperwork stating we had 232
feet in there and I got that off to him because he said thats all he wanted and then he would move on and send me a
check and thats what he stated and its been an ongoing battle ever since, you know, the reason why the the you guys
never got the report, I had to hand it over to my attorney and we were litigating for all this time we went to court I dont
know what date it was I forget but I can look it up for you.
BOARD: The other is the non-conforming.
MACHAIN: I gave him a copy in his mailbox to sign over there I even I checked it off on the well completion report he
was supposed to sign it for us, we never got anything back from him, he wouldnt even take my calls after a while he
said, you know Im not even talking to you anymore. You know, I off..you want me tocan I speak a little about this
because I have a lot to tell you
BOARD: not right now, lets keep to the subject.
MACHAIN: ok
BOARD: Does the board have any questions for, and lets keep it to the subject please, not you know of what these
things are here right now. Not to say were not going to talk about the other. (inaudible)
BOARD: Roger I would just say that the one question the depth to bedrock is up to opinion, my opinion of where I hit
bedrock could be very different from somebody else by 5 feet. What do I feel is firm and consistent maybe somebody
else(inaudible)think its still soft or broken or weathered. So Im not concerned about that 5 foot
BOARD: So what youre saying in most reports there is a variation. No matter what.
BOARD: I think they can (inaudible) my world
BOARD: I think the board would agree to that. Am I right? Yeah
BOARD: And thats only in, Im only discussing line 9 on the completion report. Because thats, theres a discrepancy on,
of 5 feet between the two. So I personally dont have a concern with that 5 foot discrepancy.
BOARD: Ok, is that it.
BOARD: Yeah.
BOARD: Do you have any questions for Bob or
BOARD: No.
BOARD: Hugh
BOARD: Roger, the way I read this complaint, Mr. Pellino is questioning whether or (inaudible) he owes Derry Well for
232 feet of casing. He brings up a whole bunch of incidental stuff but the complaint is did he owe them for this casing.
BOARD: 212
BOARD: 12 feet of additional casing.
BOARD: 212 (inaudible) right
BOARD: Right, understood. Thats the way I read the complaint. All the other stuff is a matter for another day.
BOARD: Mr. Pellino wants to know if he owes them x number of thousand dollars for 212 feet of additional casing
MACHAIN: And attorneys fees.
BOARD: And attorneys fees, and collection fees
MACHAIN: That what we were awarded in court
BOARD: That doesnt mean we shouldnt address the rest of this stuff
BOARD: How does the rest of the board feel about that?

BOARD: What? That issue has already been handled by a higher authority. I dont think we have the right (inaudible) to
question.
BOARD: Do we have a court decision? (inaudible)
MACHAIN: Yes we do. The only problem was, once Mr. Pellino notified the BOARD: of his contentions here, um, then it
was, I believe put on hold until you guys decided whether or not we did in factpu
BOARD: Put on hold by the court? (inaudible)
MACHAIN: Didnt you get the information on that? I think I got something that Pellino said ahhhh
BOARD: No, I didnt get any paperwork on that
MACHAIN: oh thats what I thought but I could be wrong but regardless, we did get judgment whether its on hold
because of this. I think it is, but I dont know. He would, he might know, hes a smart guy.
TOOP: Its on stay pending on your investigation
BOARD: ok, so do we have any evidence here that you did or did not put in, do you have any evidence of how much
casing you put in the ground.
MACHAIN: Ok, well evidence would be nice if I went up there with a camera to show him, we did do it, evidence is this
McKissick and Erik Shwed putting the pipe in the ground(inaudible) and thats what we did, but heres what I did
Roger, all right, and this is the truth, and I think hed be willing to admit this
BOARD: Can you continue to direct this to (inaudible)
MACHAIN: I will, I offered to him, I will come up there, lets say you owe me $3,000, I will come up with a pocket of
$3,000 in my pocket, with my camera, color camera, go down the hole, we can count each 20 foot increment on the
threading, and you can see this, allright, he knew, you can see it, I will go down there and I guarantee you, together well
look at this and count them. And I said this very nicely, matter of factly, Im not going to charge you to go down there,
usually theres obviously a fee. And it takes forever to get up there too. Its a good, you know a bit of time.
BOARD: So you offered?
MACHAIN: I offered him to go down there and show it, cuz he said Im bringing in another company for $1,500 to do
this, and Im like save your money, youre going to be spending it on that for nothing and then be mad at yourself.
Instead of giving him the $1,500 bucks you can put it towards what you owe us.
BOARD: So youre confident there is that much casing in there?
MACHAIN: Not just confident, 110%. I offered to him. Now, Mr. Schofield just tells me a couple of weeks ago, Mr. Pellino
would like me to go back up there and do that. He didnt want anything to do with me up until all of this. Now, were
good buddies, (inaudible) he asked me to go up and do this.
BOARD: As far as you know, is the well working properly?
MACHAIN: As far as I know, yeah. I cant believe that there would be any problem with it. There was nothing, he not
saying there is a problem with it. All we see is the issues of this casing. Thats the only big hang up and he doesnt want
to pay for it.
BOARD: Does the board have any other questions? (inaudible), Id like to thank you very much and maybe bring the
Pellinos into the hearing.
MCKISSICK: Thank you.
BOARD: Will you introduce yourselves please.
PELLINO: My name is Vincenzo Pellino.
TOOP: My name is Audra Toop
PELLINO: Ok this well
TOOP: First of all, we did have the well checked, and theres more problems than from our initial complaint. (inaudible),
weve been going back and forth with Mr. Schofield. The dimensions that you have on the reports, (inaudible), are
incorrect. The depth, the amount of casings
BOARD: Now there is two different reports, which one are you
PELLINO: June 17

TOOP: June 17th, even the last one submitted by ahh McKissick.
BOARD: That has a completion date of 5/23?
TOOP: Ah, yeah, it was 5/29
PELLINO: 5/29 was when they drilled (inaudible)
TOOP: We actually brought with us, their original invoice they left on the property. This is an original, its dated 5/30,
this was the day after they completed the job. This is the day they brought up the holding tank. We know, I mean, Im
not even sure how relevant that is, but it was done on 5/30, I mean 5/29.
BOARD: So, you mentioned you got evidence that there is in fact a different amount of casing in there and a different
depth of well? And that evidence is?
PELLINO: Yes
TOOP: Um, well, we have a letter from Hartley Well, who went down, I only brought one copy
BOARD: Give it to the Chairman
TOOP: The depth is 259, the amount of casings are 230, with 228 feet going into the ground. Directly underneath the
bottom of the casing is the only (inaudible) water source coming in. Thats surface water.
BOARD: (inaudible).
TOOP: Right below the casings is ahh a pit, it looks like a 2 foot pit. This is where the water is coming in, you can see little
rocks at the bottom, then you can see a little bit of a smooth surface, you can see an additional hole, which we believe is
to be the bedrock, at 230 feet. You go into the hole, there is no water, once they went into the hole in the bedrock,
theres no water, period. Only coming in from directly underneath the casing.
PELLINO: Closer to the rock
TOOP: We noticed excessive corrosion, there was excessive rust. They pulled the pump out. The pump was completely
covered in a brown sludge. So, ah, Mr. Pellino did express to Mr. Schofield that there (inaudible), brown water coming
into the house. It stains the toilet, the shower, this has been going on from day one. Which he addressed, they said it
was going to clear up in a couple of months, it never cleared up, I know, I have stained fingernails. Im not even sure
what they did. I..we dont know, but we
BOARD: Do you have the camera? The film from the, from Hartley?
TOOP: We didnt, the original reason we wanted them to go down to was just to check the measurements. Had we
known we were checking more problems. I mean, we thought we were just getting dirt in the water.
BOARD: So you didnt record it?
TOOP: No, but
PELLINO: I will pay again

TOOP: If Derry Well would like to, with the States presence, we needed a third party because they were only going to
show us casings. And we saw how the camera, how the numbers were set, the dimensions were all set on the camera,
there is no doubt in my mind they would have configured it to add on that additional 2 feet, to make the 232, but we
needed a third party present, to make sure that they were showing us what we needed to see. The dimensions, thats
what we wanted to originally find out, until we got to the bottom. The bottom of that well was a problem. And this is
not what we contracted for. As far as the Well Completion report, signed by Robert Machain, he testified, in court,
when asked directly by the judge, was this submitted to the State, his answer was yes. That is what started this
investigation, coming here, finding out if this report was in fact on record. They presented this as being on record with
the state. It was done in malice, it was done to mislead. He lied to a judge, we put that in the motion to have the judge
set aside the judgment or put a stay on until this investigation was done, but he was forced. Mr. Pellino was forced to
have his well measured. The dimensions were all over the place, and the only thing we could come to the conclusion of,
is they were changing the dimensions to make it appear, because their first original invoice, they have the well depth at
285 feet, 232 feet of casings, they dont include the depth to bedrock on it. The he gets the well completion report, then

it says 220 feet, so it appears there is 12 feet of casing into bedrock. Now, we know, we have the, well looked at, from
ground level down, is 228 feet, they say the bedrock is at 225. I know what I saw, I saw the bedrock at 230 feet. But,
giving them the benefit of the doubt, which is being generous right now, um they installed 3 feet of casings into the
bedrock? 10-20 feet is standard and that would be consistent with every other bedrock well.
BOARD: How do you know where the bedrock is?
TOOP: You can see it, when they get down to the bottom(inaudible)
BOARD: hold on, hold on, let her finish
TOOP: When you see this 2 foot cavity you can actually see the separate hole. And when they went in with the camera,
you can see how its a smoother surface, what we sawand Hartley well didnt want to commit to it, they said it was a
gray area, if its a gray area, Derry Wells can come up with their camera, in the presence of the state, there has to be a
third party, they cant check their own work. If they decline, well be more than happy to spend the $725 to have them
come back out, in the presence of the state, and go down the well. Thats how confident I am of the dimensions I just
gave you.
BOARD: I need to back you up a little bit, and Im going to let the board ask you some questions. What started, what
started your questioning?
PELLINO: Well, when
BOARD: Try to keep it brief
PELLINO: The well was $10,200 and I said, for $10,200, I need to know what you did for the work, and I want to know
why Im getting brown water, why its 232 feet of casings
BOARD: So brown water was an issue earlier on
PELLINO: It was an issue. But, I wanted to know why other wells, compared to mine have a depth of 400 feet while mine
has a depth of 265 (inaudible) 115, this is what Im thinking, the numbers are off
BOARD: Ok, Im gonna, Im gonna go through as you talk, so that way there we can remember. So, when you talk about
the brown water, have you have the water tested?
PELLINO: Ah As far as I know, its bad water
BOARD: (inaudible)
PELLINO: I drank it, I got sick off it.
TOOP: No (inaudible)
BOARD: You did not have it tested?
TOOP: No, he wont drink it, but no it has not been tested.
BOARD: So you dont know if its iron, you dont know the ph levels or anything
TOOP: No
BOARD: about it. Ok. And then you said that, um you questioned whether
PELLINO: (inaudible)
BOARD: in your mind, youre thinking its a 250 foot well, 150 feet of casing, 115 feet (inaudible) only because you dont
know the well drilling world so thats just a laymans thought
PELLINO: The more questions I asked, the more deceptive he became.
BOARD: But that was your thought, that was your thought was that, youre thinking that well this much casing, this
much. Now, today you understand the difference?
TOOP: Yeah
PELLINO: No, I dont know the difference. They were trying to close the gap to get to the bedrock which is 2 feet minus 2
feet. They never hit that rock with the casing.
BOARD: That opinion

PELLINO: Its just hanging there. So I ask him the question what it was, and just say how much do I owe you, $3,000 then
he changes to $3,700 and it just kept going on. Um, his worker, ah Steve Banton calls me up and says oh you better pay
Bob his $3,000. Im like, how much casing is in there, what did you do on the well, and he couldnt commit to anything
and he hung up on me. So he said $3,000, he said 37 the numbers were all over the place
BOARD: Wait, hold on a second, Steve who?
PELLINO: Banton
TOOP: Steve Banton, He actually, he is the one who hooked Mr. Pellino up with Derry Well, and apparently he has his
own company Artisan Contocook Artisan Wells.
BOARD: Whats the relationship between the two of you?
TOOP: Ah, were friends, I actually stay at that house.
BOARD: ok ok all right. So Steve Banton works for another company
PELLINO: Brings the contract over to me (inaudible) saying
BOARD: Doesnt Steve Banton work for another company?
TOOP: Mmmhhmm Yep
BOARD: Ok, all right.
PELLINO: But he said this is the contract, I looked at it and he said I doused in the area and the well should go right here
and basically tells
BOARD: Steve Banton tells you this?
PELLINO: Yes, so I say ok, they went on to do this well and I told him, I need to be present when the work gets done
BOARD: Was a, again, like I said Im going to continue with questions. Was there a potential of putting this well in a
conforming place instead of a non-conforming place?
PELLINO: Yes, he wouldnt do it
TOOP: Right, he said he wanted it in one spot and it was actually in
BOARD: So were you present during this time because youre talking a lot
TOOP: Yeah, I actually know everything.I the day they completed the well, I was right there
BOARD: Ok ok just trying to keep it clear. So the well couldve gone to a conforming spot but because of the douser and
where they recommended it to go in a different spot.
PELLINO: I dont believe in that anyways
BOARD: Well, but still the well couldve gone, you had the land, you had the setback. Do you understand what those
setbacks are?
BOARD: People explained to you
TOOP: No. He know it was supposed to be so many feet away from the um
PELLINO: septic tank
TOOP: Septic Tank but
BOARD: Nobody explained to you the 75 foot from the set the lot line or the road or anything like that.
TOOP: No
PELLINO: I have plenty of land too
TOOP: Right. Plenty of land
BOARD: Ok.
BOARD: Can I ask a question?
BOARD: Yes.
BOARD: This Steve Banton person, as infamous as he may be, sounds to me like he selected the site by his dousing
TOOP: Well, I we
BOARD: Were talking about setbacks, were talking about 50 feet, youre talking about you know this guy Steve Banton
whoever he is, and hes telling you, you dont know. Well who called him?
TOOP: He actually just called out of

PELLINO: Said he works for Derry Wells

TOOP: Said he works for them.
BOARD: Steve Banton works for Clearwater so
PELLINO: Also
BOARD: So howd he get involved??
PELLINO: (inaudible) deceitful
BOARD: Do you know who Steve Banton is?
PELLINO: I talked to him, and he showed up
BOARD: Ok so so thats all you know about him?
TOOP: He represented himself as a an employee for Derry Wells and they did testified in court they know who his, he
does sales for them
BOARD: Can you explain who Steve Banton is?
MACHAIN: Yeah, Id love to. Everybody knows hes a representative of Clearwater. Clearwater didnt have the time to go
up there and do that, and when that is the case (inaudible) he asked us if we would be willing to go up there (inaudible)
BOARD: Ok, thats not a problem but everybody here doesnt know who Steve Banton is.
MACHAIN: He knows hes a salesman he called him specifically. Steve didnt just show up out of the blue with
some.(inaudible)
BOARD: So we got he said she said
TOOP: (inaudible)
BOARD: Here we are, were sitting here, I could just tell you I know Steve Banton is a salesman for Clearwater Artesian
Wells. Did you call Steve Clearwater Artesian Wells?
PELLINO: No, he called me
BOARD: Well, how did anybody know you needed a well?
TOOP: When, when, after the house was put up there were quite a few companies that were called to get, ahh
estimates.
BOARD: So this was new construction?
TOOP: It was new construction
BOARD: Your house is a new house?
TOOP: Yeah
BOARD: So you had a plan, a septic plan that showed the well location. Approved well location.
TOOP/PELLINO (inaudible)
BOARD: wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute oh its a lot that you bought and yourre building on this lot and it
was approved by DES in 2002 but still theres a well location on there so (inaudible) septic system showing a well
location
PELLINO: They shouldve looked for it, theyre the ones who drilled this well
TOOP: And this is the thing, there was a lot of ignorance surrounding, you know what a bedrock well was
BOARD: Ok, so lets go on from there all right. Steve Banton, Clearwater, you had to contact, somebody had to contact
somebody to drill a well
PELLINO: I left a number on a well company, Derry Well, then he called me up, said oh I can come up there and check
the well for you, and ah $6,500
TOOP: flat rate
PELLINO: Flat rate. And as then he came up changed the story to something else and I told the other contractor can you
match the price, so now everybody was gone
BOARD: Ok now, now youre talking about another contractor, what what, who is the other contractor?
PELLINO: A few other contractors
BOARD: so you talked to other well companies.

PELLINO: Comac, um
BOARD: You talked to other well companies
PELLINO: Yes
BOARD: So obviously this Steve Banton, you know
TOOP: Steve Banton did
BOARD: Clearwater is up that way so
TOOP: He he did ah represent, he is the one who actually brought Mr. Pellino the contract
PELLINO: He brought the contract to me said he was (inaudible) for Derry Wells
TOOP: He brought the contract for Derry Wells said
BOARD: Thats fine
TOOP: And we had no reason to question he wasnt an employee of Derry Wells, thats how he represented himself
MACHAIN: He never said he was, (inaudible) Clearwater originally
PELLINO: You said that in court, so dont worry about it
TOOP: We are speaking now, so please um
BOARD: Direct to here
TOOP: There, there was no question on whether he worked, I mean hes the one bringing the contract. We had no
reason to question he was even with another company. No reason
PELLINO: Is (inaudible) like a subcontractor thing, is that whats going on with this scam. It looks like a scam.
BOARD: Well I think he can sell for as many companies as (inaudible)
TOOP: Right, I mean were not questioning on where he comes (inaudible)
BOARD: So now Steve Banton was kind of the front person for you with Derry Well, thats fine and Derry Well is a
licensed company so thats all fine. So Steve Banton then doused the well, the location of the well, where the well is
gonna go, everybody agreed to it blah blah blah and so now Derry Well drills the well
PELLINO: I was never there, never met them
TOOP: Derry Well
BOARD: Ok so, I guess Im gonna let Steve ask questions
BOARD: I dont care for Steve Banton doesnt matter. But, I think I misunderstood when you were talking about depth to
bedrock and amount of casing. Youre saying that the depth to bedrock is below the bottom of the casing.
TOOP: It, it doesnt reach
BOARD: The casing doesnt go in competent bedrock?
PELLINO: No, its 2 feet above
TOOP: 2 feet above it
BOARD: I want to see a videotape of it
TOOP: We actually dont have a videotape of it but
BOARD: Thats fine
TOOP: We can have the company come back out
PELLINO: (inaudible) he declined to do it so
BOARD: (inaudible) theres way too much stuff going on. thats up to you, you can go back and forth
TOOP: (inaudible) theres been too much confusion
MACHAIN: I wouldnt do it if you paid me twice that amount
PELLINO: (inaudible) thank you
BOARD: I dont doubt that Derry Well put in a substantial amount of casing. 230 feet, 228 feet 235 feet. I suspect thats
how much casing is in there.
TOOP: Theres 230 feet. All we needed was because, as I said the invoice left at the house doesnt say anything about
the depth to bedrock, so he he didnt understand why there were excessive casings in there you know just looking at
other reports on the road, he knew for a bedrock well, the dimensions seemed off

PELLINO: 90% casing

TOOP: They didnt, what it turned out to is that they did not drill deep enough into the bedrock which would have made
this a lot easier to understand what they did.
BOARD: I agree
TOOP: And, thats all we needed them to explain to us but obviously (inaudible) it never had to come to this ever. This
has been, trying to figure this out, has been
BOARD: Well, the BOARD:
TOOP: Thats why we hired people to do work, we dont know (inaudible)
BOARD: Do you have something
BOARD: Well I think the depth the confusion with the depth to bedrock and the amount of casing installed is two
different issues. It could be 10 feet to bedrock and the driller might put in 200 feet of casing. If the case, if the bedrock
he believes is not competent to sustain a well
Side B
BOARD: 10 feet, which is in our rules, he may go in 50 or a hundred feet this area that youre talking about would be the
drilled pilot hole that they drilled first. It appears the question is, is the casing seated in the bottom of that pilot hole
TOOP: 420, yeah what Hartley Well explained to us
PELLINO: theres chips around it
TOOP: He said it appears they may have broken something with the drive shoe.
BOARD: Obviously, but Hartley was
BOARD: We need we need a visual
PELLINO: (inaudible) next week
TOOP: (inaudible)
BOARD: Our rules say the casing is supposed to be in competent bedrock, so the rock if the casing isnt in competent
bedrock, but again, you gotta remember on this video we gotta make sure you have a good video because he, it could
show hes in below the casing by this much, its hard and then it goes through you know, a bedrock that is broken apart
from thereon. I know, but what Im saying is Im just telling you, make sure that this video has good numbers, and has
clarity which is sometimes hard to do has good clarity on that. So what what are you, what is your looking to do with
this, if we find, if we find that this well does not meet the standards.
PELLINO: (inaudible), drill
TOOP: This company, theyve been extremely difficult to deal with. They they
BOARD: Im not asking that, Im asking what is your ultimate goal
TOOP: Our options were to have a new well drilled, a jaswell seal which didnt, it wasnt highly recommended or a um
PELLINO: A filtration system
TOOP: a high capacity filtration system
BOARD: But you dont know what filtration is until you
TOOP: Right, and it would just be more of an expense because you have all that rust in there
BOARD: Now you have neighborly neighbors that have wells there, and I dont know if you heard the board, (inaudible),
but theres some gravel wells around that have water coming from above the bedrock. Do you have any knowledge
about their water quality
TOOP: Um, I talked to a few people on the road, one guy actually owns the bait shop, I believe he has a gravel well,
(inaudible), he has no problem with his water. The people next door had their well drilled by Taskers, and its actually
how a bedrock well should be drilled, you know just looking, based on what Im seeing, they have no problem with their
water, they dont have the same issues. I havent heard anyone
BOARD: Well, Tasker will do gravel and do bedrock. So is that a bedrock well?

TOOP: This is supposed to be a bedrock, our

BOARD: No no no no, the one that you
TOOP: Oh, its a bedrock well. Its actually it should be on that diagram
BOARD: (inaudible) its in the package western geological survey
BOARD: (inaudible) one of those is from Taskers
TOOP: Theyre about 100 feet away, 140 feet away their depth to bedrock is 235 feet, they have 20 feet of casings
BOARD: Yeah, well
TOOP: No, I understand, I understand there could be some gray area to you know where the bedrock is, that was all
explained, but they go deeper, they go down to 427 feet into the bedrock. To get sufficient water
BOARD: That number is always going to change.
BOARD: That doesnt mean anything
TOOP: Right, and I as I said, we understand that, and this couldve been explained a year ago, but it never was and Mr.
Pellino, he had no choice but to have his well checked
BOARD: Mr. Pellino, what you need to do
PELLINO: They couldve pointed me to DES, I had no knowledge
TOOP: Yeah we stumbled upon
BOARD: What you need to do is you need to videotape that have it on record, bring it back to us.
PELLINO: Sounds good
BOARD: And brown water is brown water, it could be anything, you know well look at the video, well see if its sealed,
could be iron, who knows, so you gotta have the water tested
TOOP: Um, The pump is completely coated completely coated with
BOARD: Unfortunately you know, thats the kind of
BOARD: Could be (inaudible) iron
BOARD: could be iron. That that (inaudible), that really doesnt tell us much
BOARD: (inaudible) yeah yeah its you know its not the greatest water. But we have bedrock wells that are not the
greatest. We have shallow wells, we have all kinds of wells that are not the great and Im not saying your well thats why
your well is, we need more evidence of went on so
TOOP: Ok so a videotape
BOARD: Now Hartley videoed, they videoed it but didnt record it
TOOP: They actually didnt record it, as I said we we, our initial plan was to just check the dimensions of the casing and
the actual depth of the well. We didnt know what we were going to encounter once they got in there. But they had
already started the process, we just let them finish and, you know it was offered to Mr. Schofield if he would like to be
present when this is done, we would be more than happy to hire a company to come back out and do it in the presence
of the State
BOARD: Bob, I see you standing up but you already said that you would not go back and do the video with Rick, so ahh
what is it
MACHAIN: Id just like to say she said that shes been living in this house for a year right. I mean Ive never heard anyone
one regardless, if you think the water is bad youre not going to do a test to see a little is its potable, can I take a bath, is
it (inaudible) in it, I mean it just seems a little diabolical to me hes gonna put his name on it but not do a water test. I
mean (inaudible) to believe that it is bad we have nothing to see that
BOARD: We dont know, we dont know
MACHAIN: (inaudible), it could be very bad, it could be gray, green, blue, brown, I dont know what color the water is it
could be beautiful. I mean and Hartley did they go up there did they do this work for 770 dollars and slip no tape in the
box and you dont get a sample of what youre doing there
BOARD: They gonna pay again so
MACHAIN: Great. All right.

PELLINO: You got caught

TOOP: I never said I lived there, I said I stay at that house, I do use that house frequently, its a vacation home
MACHAIN: I need a vacation
PELLINO: You got caught
TOOP: This is the type of attitude (inaudible), we just needed answers, we needed Mr. Schofield has explained more
BOARD: Heres the way I see it, considering youre a lay person, and obviously neither of you youre getting an education
on bedrock wells. To me theres two issues here. The issue of casing, were talking Hartley, if you agree with him, youre
talking 2 feet of difference. So the monetary part about the casing
BOARD: Thats not the problem
BOARD: thats a done deal, in my opinion
TOOP: (inaudible)
BOARD: Thats been reported consistently. Thats the one (inaudible)
BOARD: So the big issue to me is, #1 is it in competent bedrock and the camera is going to tell us that, you know were
talking 265, 259 I mean you know depending on, those dimensions dont concern me.
BOARD: Right
BOARD: The issue of brown water, you know and I think the only way were going to tell is accurate video that we can
actually see and a water sample. So at the end of the day the monetary issues that youre dealing with to me arent way
out of whack. What concerns me the most is that youre sitting there telling me you dont have potable water. So I think
we need to figure out if the casings are competent and what your water quality is saying. It is not uncommon in New
Hampshire, iron and manganese are probably one of New Hampshires best kept secrets, I mean, we have it
everywhere. So it could be (inaudible). We dont know. Because its brown doesnt mean the well was poorly installed.
So we cant make a decision until we (inaudible). Get us the tape and get a water quality sample. So with that aside, I
say go home, get it done get it back into us now if Hartley is going to go back up and take pictures I guess I would
suggest he contact Rick be there when they take the pictures so none of this is anectdotal anymore
PELLINO: Sounds good
BOARD: Hes there on site, and thats the way were going to do it
TOOP: And they are aware they that Mr. Schofield would ah probably be present when
BOARD: To me theres too many he said she saids
TOOP: Absolutely. And thats what we were trying to get to the bottom of and (inaudible)
PELLINO: Its just deception. Its all its about
BOARD: Well it may not be
PELLINO: I have no problem paying the $10,000 if I got a well that is conformed and
BOARD: We dont know that it isnt
BOARD: We dont
BOARD: Because were hearing from two lay people, and I dont say that lovingly, and you know and were talking about
people we license and we hope theyre doing the right thing
TOOP: Exactly
BOARD: But for us to make a valued judgment we need to see the evidence for ourselves and then we can make an
informed decision. Its really that straight forward
BOARD: And theres no reason to think that Derry Well Company had any idea that there might be a problem with that
drive shoe seal.
TOOP: Our concern is that they kept changing the numbers and thats when it became a concern is they changed the
numbers, why are they changing thats thats how we look at it as not not knowing anything about bedrock wells theyre
changing the numbers for a reason, thats how we see it
PELLINO: They couldve pointed me to this office
TOOP: We, yeah, we (inaudible) this office

BOARD: Those variations in the casing, the depth to ledge, there is some variations to those, not not that you dont
know how much casing is but 2 feet you know one way or another ahh you know theres some variations there. And I
Im looking at this the 285 vs the 265 and I think it became 260
BOARD: 259
BOARD: 259 well we would call 259 a 260 foot well, ok ahh you know again, you paid for a package anyway so not to say
that they shouldnt have reported it properly to us but you didnt get, have to pay any more money between 260 and
280 all right, you know
PELLINO: (inaudible) youd get better quality water at 450 feet Im paying for it, you should go down there and get it.
BOARD: The fact is in New Hampshire you could go 1,000 feet and have brown water. Thats the real world so
TOOP: Theres no guarantee
BOARD: Its stated in the contract
TOOP: (inaudible), it was coming in and it was staining everything
BOARD: Well, see, thats the world according to John Hartley you know, so we got two different worlds here, were
hearing from Derry, were hearing from John and again not to (inaudible) this, so we can get on with our lives, get us the
information, we will then make the academic judgment of whats going on and give you a decision.
BOARD: So a suggestion for you, where is the pump set? Because you talked about the pump. At what level is the pump
set at?
TOOP: Yeah, Its its set down a hundred feet and its actually its not centered in the well, I thought I
BOARD: Well, yeah ok so youre talking maybe it may have a torque arrester or something on it ah the guide that goes
around the pump.
TOOP: Right, right
BOARD: Ok well unfortunately unfortunately for Derry Well, Ricks going to be up there when you videotape this, and
those things will be (inaudible), ok. But a suggestion is is if you got your well pump down into the bedrock and out of the
casings, some of that iron might go away.
TOOP: Its set a hundred feet down, so
BOARD: I know but again, as a layman, you may not understand but youre in the casings, the casing rusts if theres a
little bit of a low ph it wants to oxidize that casing and it keeps coming off. So if you got the well pump down deeper
which depending on the company that you have make these recommendations but get the pump down into the bedrock
so youre not coming by that casing all the time. And that can help that, so
BOARD: I (inaudible) from this conversation that Derry Well had no idea they had brown water so having this discussion
about pump elevation is probably moot
TOOP: Um (inaudible)
BOARD: (inaudible) the two of you
BOARD: We can debate this for the next 6 years. So save you time, to save us time candidly get us the information and
Ricks going to be on site, then we can have a conversation about lowering the pump raising the pump, whatever we
want to do but lets start from square one so its not he said she said anymore cause its to me when youre in a decision
making world
TOOP: We could be here all day
BOARD: Exactly, it could be pain for you and pain for us, so get us that info and then I can assure you we will make a
decision
BOARD: I have a question for Mr. Pellino, I think you told me that Derry Well Company did not install the pumping
system, was it just the tank or the pump?
PELLINO: The holding tank
TOOP: The holding tank
BOARD: Ok, just the holding tank that was installed by your plumber?
PELLINO: I asked them.I hired a plumber.

BOARD: Ok
PELLINO: They would not install it, because they said it was too far to come out. Im like, I got not water (inaudible) and
I had to pay $200 to have it done
BOARD: Ok, so they did install the pump. You just had a contractor come upok
PELLINO: The holding tank (inaudible) plumber
BOARD: Ok
TOOP: Thank you so much
PELLINO: Thank you for your time
BOARD: Ok So can we expect to see that stuff when?
TOOP: Were going to contact Hartley Well right now, on our way out.
PELLINO: Well get on it soon. Well get on it soon. As soon as I can.
BOARD: Ok, thank you

I, Audra Eileen Toop of 2 Neptune Road, East Boston, MA 02128, hereby swear under the pains and penalty of perjury,
the above transcription of a hearing before the New Hampshire Water Well Board on August 22, 2013 is true and
accurate to the best of my knowledge. Availability of the recordings are held at the New Hampshire Department of
Environmental Services.

______________
Audra Toop

July 25, 2014