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Respected Members,
what is the main purpose of property modifiers in defining farme sections in
etabs and how we can relate them to theoretical knowledge??
Experience serves not only to confirm theory, but differs from it without disturbing it, it
leads to new truths which theory only has not been able to reach.
- Dalembert
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Rana Waseem
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ok im leaving from office, if you have more doubts i will write in later.
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Umar Makhzumi
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waqar saleem, Rana Waseem and Muhammad Imran Zafar like this
The technical man must not be lost in his own technology. He must be able to appreciate
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Rana Waseem
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Umar Makhzumi
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Deflections are affected, not the reinforcement. you can check that manually.
The technical man must not be lost in his own technology. He must be able to appreciate
life; and life is art, drama, music, and most importantly, people. Fazlur R. Khan
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Rana Waseem
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Rana Waseem
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So just compare the two images, model having modifiers have less stiffness, so
take less moment, that moment is distributed to other stiff elements.
so the point is if you reduce the stiffness as in case of cracking, it will affect
deflection as well as moments. so the reinforcement values depend upon the
moment. I agree with you that in beam design formula, it depends upon b and d.
Now this b and d are not with modifiers rather full values.
But the moment which has to be used in this formual is less because of less
stiffness due to reduction in modifiers.
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Rana Waseem
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another thing. if you put the same modifiers for every thing like walls, columns,
beams, floor etc..so the reduction will be uniform it will not affect the results. but
if you make something stiffer and another less stiffer so you basically are
creating differences in stiffness so is the difference in the moment that will goto
these elements. like in this example i have applied
beams = 0.35,0.35,0.35 (j,m22,m33)
cols = 0.7,0.7 (m11,m22)
slab = 0.25,0.25,0.25 (m11,m12,m22)
walls = 0.7,0.7(m11,m22)
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baz
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Rana Waseem
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I know in the code these modifiers are for lateral deflection. but then how would
you justify the reduced moment of inertia after cracking? Are you talking about
membrane slab which has no out of plane stiffness? Yeah in membrane the
modfiers will not affect but in shell if you dont apply the modifers, the slab will
carry all the moment.
I just want to be more clear about the concept, because we apply modfiers in
every model. and according to ACI we can use the same modifiers set for lateral
and for strength design. (for wind serviceability the modifiers are multiplied by
1.4 in a separate model).
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baz
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Umar Makhzumi
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The technical man must not be lost in his own technology. He must be able to appreciate
life; and life is art, drama, music, and most importantly, people. Fazlur R. Khan
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waqar saleem
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@RANA when we say that uncracked section has more inertia and more stiffness
and more moment taking but cracked section has less inertia and less stiffness
and less moment taking,inertia is the geometric property moment taking is
related to strength, uncracked concrete section has less strength than cracked
section so sir Rana what do you say about that?also in case of concrete when
section is cracked it means it has started taking loads otherwise its strength is
not fully generated so what about the stiffness of cracked and uncracked
section?
Experience serves not only to confirm theory, but differs from it without disturbing it, it
leads to new truths which theory only has not been able to reach.
- Dalembert
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waqar saleem
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please differentiate shell and membrane ?how do we say that one slab is
membrane and other is shell or plate ?
Experience serves not only to confirm theory, but differs from it without disturbing it, it
leads to new truths which theory only has not been able to reach.
- Dalembert
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Umar Makhzumi
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The technical man must not be lost in his own technology. He must be able to appreciate
life; and life is art, drama, music, and most importantly, people. Fazlur R. Khan
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baz
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membrane is capable of taking tensile stresses only like our skin or tarpal (urdu
word). Word slab used in structural engineering cant be membrane.
shall is capable of taking shear and moment. Any thing that can take shear or
moment can also take direct tension or compression.
plate is shell/slab loaded in its plane like shear wall.
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baz
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Umar Makhzumi
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To sum it here, design your members for augmented loads(with load factors)
and check them for serviceability with cracked section.. its a conservative way,
super conservative to get good design. All members are good, even if they crack
and meet serviceability requirements (which may be different upon their
intended use).
Update: Members should also be checked for strength using cracked sections. Its
more safe to apply to both serviceability and strength conditions.
The technical man must not be lost in his own technology. He must be able to appreciate
life; and life is art, drama, music, and most importantly, people. Fazlur R. Khan
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Umar Makhzumi
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shall is capable of taking shear and moment. Any thing that can take shear or moment can
also take direct tension or compression.
plate is shell/slab loaded in its plane like shear wall.
Quote
Because concrete is easily formed and shaped, its compression strength makes it the ideal
material
for shells of any nature. The work of Felix Candela in developing plates and shells wherein he
spans 100 m with a 5 cm concrete shell truly opens the possibility for the free form Catiadriven
shapes of Gehry Buildings in concrete.
Concrete is perfect for membrane stresses. The potential was realized in my design of the
120 ft
diameter roof of the Lebanon Senior High School. This roof was flat and was spanned using a
20 in.
thick hollow slab. This span and thickness of concrete were made possible by the fact that as
a circular
shell deflects, it creates compression in membrane stresses, thus minimizing the deflection.
Dr. Timoshenko, the father of concrete plates and shells, shows that the span of a circular
slab is
represented by the radius of the circle rather than its diameter.
The technical man must not be lost in his own technology. He must be able to appreciate
life; and life is art, drama, music, and most importantly, people. Fazlur R. Khan
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Suggest Some Institute For Learning Civil Engineering Software In Islamabad Or Else Where?
Started by Syed Jabbar Shah , 30 Apr 2015
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