MACALIPAY, MA. LOURDES A.

SY 1149/ PSY 119

MIDTERMS [homework]

August 29, 2014Friday

Dr. Ana-Nelia LopezJumamil

Individual Psychology (Adlerian Therapy)

Dr. Gilchrist: Hi Shannon, what brings you to counseling?
Dr. Gilchrist: How did you stress yourself out?
Shannon: Well Ive really just recently been feeling really overwhelmed, and
stressed aboutI feel like I have so many obligations in my life that pull me in Shannon: Justfeeling like I have to make straight As, and not even or only in
different directions that Im not able to give my all to each of those areas.
school. I do that at work-I have to be the best employee. I do that at home, I do
that with my friends, my roommates, and even in relationships, romantic
Dr. Gilchrist: So how long have you been feeling that way?
relationships.
Shannon: Actually I said recently, but when I think about it probably as long as I Dr. Gilchrist: So it seems like you strive to be perfect in school and in other areas.
can remember.
You might even be striving to be the best client.
Dr. Gilchrist: Ok. Since you were a child?

Shannon: Yeah, I guess.

Shannon: Yeah.

Dr. Gilchrist: It sounds like you have this need to be perfect. Is that stressful?
Shannon: It is, it is. I feel very disappointed if I dont do my best. I beat myself up
over that. So its really stressful.

Dr. Gilchrist: Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood?

Shannon: Sure. I grew up with my mom and my younger brother; hes four years Dr. Gilchrist: Who places that expectation on you?
younger than I am. My parents divorced when I was 8, so for the longest time it
was just my mom, my brother, and me. We kind of bounced around a lot, she Shannon: I guess I do, but in order to make people proud of me.
worked two jobs to support the two of us as a single mom.
Dr. Gilchrist: Ok. Can you tell me your earliest recollection of maybe not being
Dr. Gilchrist: So youve been feeling overwhelmed for a long time now.
perfect?
Shannon: Yeah, and actually Id probably say even before I was 8, before they got Shannon: Yes, and actually when you said that it came to me immediately. In
divorced, because my dad is an alcoholic, so even when they were together it was seventh grade I got my first B and I was extremely upset. And I cried the whole
just chaotic. And I always wanted to protect my brother and help my mom.
way home because it was an awful feeling, just awful.
Dr. Gilchrist: Help your mom how so?

Dr. Gilchrist: Ok. And so you said that it made you feel really awful.

Shannon: Around the house, and helping out with my younger brother-taking care Shannon: Mhmm. It justI feltI had made straight As up until that point and
of him. I reallydidnt have a childhood, I guess, because I did a lot of adult that first B, I was so disappointed like I had just let myself down completely from
things.
what I expected of myself.
Dr. Gilchrist: Adult things like?

Dr. Gilchrist: Since childhood youve always been striving to be perfect. How is
that working for you?

Shannon: Doing the dishes, cooking dinners, staying in to watch my brother while
my friends are outside at the park and stuff. So lots of things I guess.
Shannon: Its really really stressful. Sometimes it even makes me sick, like
physically sick. I will stress myself out to the point where I have a stomach ache
Dr. Gilchrist: So it sounds like you had a lot of responsibility for taking care of or a really bad headache that I cant get rid of. So I guess its really not working.
your younger brother.
Dr. Gilchrist: And it seems like this stress, this need to be perfect is really causing
Shannon: Uh huh.
some physical symptoms as well as adding to your stress level.
Dr. Gilchrist: What did you do for you?

Shannon: Yeah. And then when I get sick it takes away time that I need to be
using for studying or workit creates a cycle and

Shannon: Me? Thats an interesting questionI guess for me, I got straight As.
Dr. Gilchrist: Adds more stress.
Dr. Gilchrist: Thats an accomplishment.
Shannon: Yeah.
Shannon: Yeah, but I really stressed myself out doing that.

TRANSCRIPT 2
Therapist: Weve met before. Do you remember where?
Client:
Butte, Montana, I believe.
Therapist:
Butte. Ah, yes. And I met you this morning coming
out of my hotel room door, because youre across the hall from me.
(Pause)
So what would you like to see going better in your life? Im not
going to go into it right now. Im just going to get a picture of it so I
have a focus.
Client:
Thats the problem. I was thinking as I was coming
here: Gosh, I dont know if I should be coming to you, because I
dont know who I am and I dont know what I want.
Therapist:
Okay, so would one way of thinking about it be that
there is some confusion in your life?
Client:
Yes. [A possible, but undisclosed, purpose for
confusion is that it keeps the person from moving, from having to
make a decision, or taking a stand.]
Therapist: Are you at a point where you like the confusion or
where you would like some clarity?
Client:
No, Id like some clarity, and Id like to get things
settled.
Therapist:
Okay. Is there anything that among a number of things
that you would most like some clarity about or is it just amorphous
to you?
Client:
Well, its a lot of things. You know, . . . what am I
going to do when I grow up? I have just retired from my job, and I
want to start another one. I want to start a private practice; and I
want to write a book; and I want to do all these things; and my
family is falling apart, and Id like to re-establish my relationships
with my family. [There are probably a number of things in this list
that the client is not ready to face, e.g., starting a private practice,
writing a book. The most potent aspect, however, is her sense that the
family is falling apart, a declaration that deserves therapeutic focus.]
Therapist:
Okay. So there are some specifics to all of that, but a
lot of it seems overwhelming at the moment.
Client:
Yes, it is.

Client:
I dont know. I just feel unappreciated and unloved,
and I dont know. [This time, she speaks with real sadness in her
voice, and I sense tears in her.]
Therapist: And theres some real sadness for you in that.
Client:
Yes.
Therapist: Whom do you feel unappreciated by?
Client:
Just about everybody. [Her hurt is not global; it is
specific, and
I want to know the specifics.]
Therapist:
Of all the people you know who dont appreciate you,
who is most important you. Who have you lost that is most
important?
Client:
My son.
Therapist: Your son. Shall we stay with that for a while? Client:
Ok.
Therapist:
Can you tell me a little about him and you, and what
your relationship is like?
Client:
We were always very close. My son . . . I was
divorced when he was six. I had another son who was four: so four
and six. My older son kind of, I guess, took on the father role. I
wasnt aware of that at the time. I just went through life, and I
didnt think I was putting anything on him, butlooking back on it,
he thinks I did. [She is putting more importance on her sons
thoughts than her own. I want her to at least voice her own position.]
Therapist:
Um, hmm. What do you think now?
Client:
Well, I still dont think I was putting anything on him.
I think it was his choice.
Therapist:
Client:
the time.

So youre in disagreement at this point.

But as we went through life, we were very close all

Therapist:
Now could you tell me a little about you? Help me
know you.
Client:
Well, lets see. I dont know where to start. [There is
something in her tone of voice and the way she seems to be searching
several pictures in her head that suggests she is looking for the
perfect way to present herself.]

And when he moved back to Butteafter failing at his doctoral

degreewe just did a lot of things together, and he kept inviting me.
Im not someone who would just invite myself places, and I guess
thats a bad thing, because I have to wait for everybody else to
invite me.
Therapist: You can wind up feeling lonely sometimes.

Therapist:

Client:
Yes. All the time. Anyway, he always invited me, and
I always went. We had a great time. We liked the same kinds of
things, and he was about my best friend, you know . . . really. My
friends always told me that I was too close to
him. [Again, someone elses voice has been given preference over
her own. I want to challenge that.]
Therapist: Well, exactly what is too close?
Client:
Well, thats what I have never been able to
understand. It seems to me that family members can be close and do
things together as long as it is
Therapist: You werent still diapering him.

Client:
get.

Start at the worst possible place.

Well, Im an old lady. I guess thats as bad as you can

I . . . [She starts with almost a depressing voice, in a monotone as if

she is playing a tape. I want a shift in her awareness immediately,
and I want to engage her, make contact, in a different manner.]
Therapist: You know the problem is not that you are an old lady.
The problem is that you are older than you want to be at this time.
How old do you want to be?
Client:
Forty-five
Therapist:
Forty-five: one of my favorite years too. What was
good about 45 for you?
Client:
Well, I dont really know. I just said that. I guess I
was kind of at peace with myself at that time when I think back on
it.I was a school counselor and enjoying it. I loved the kids, and they
loved me. I felt like I had a great life.
Therapist:
Okay, so regardless of what else might have been
going on, there was contentment, and you knew what you were
doing, so you had a sense of being capable. You had a sense of
being useful and important and doing things of value and you knew
how to do them. Comfort. Nice. So what is keeping that from
happening now?

Client:
No, no, and I wasnt sleeping with him. To me it
seemed okay.
Therapist: Then why the hell did you listen to those people?
Client:
Well, I didnt. And I kept going. And when I got my
doctorate he helped me through it. I emailed him every paper I
wrote, except my sex therapy papers.
Therapist:
[smiling with a twinkle in his eye] You have to draw
the line somewhere.
Client:
[laughs] He would critique them and send them back
to me, and I felt like I really had support there. He really supported
me through my doctorate. I would have never made it without him,
probably. And then, I came back to Montana, and we continued
seeing each other from time to time and had fun together and so

forth. All of the sudden, he got this girlfriend who hated me. I didnt
know she was
even a girlfriend. She was someone he was helping out. She was
quite a bit younger than he, and she needed a lot of
help. So, he was helping her and still, when he would invite me to
go places, I would go. And she would be there, too, and I just
thought that was fine. And all of the sudden she just waylaid me and
said I was just awful and that I just ruined my children and that he
couldnt stand on his own two feet.
Therapist: Whatd she want from you?
Client:
She wanted me to leave him alone. She said I called
him too much. So I quit. I wouldnt call him, except maybe once . .
. [There is a pattern developing that suggests part of her rules of
interactions: She wants to be a good person, and to be seen that
way, no matter what. And a good person does not argue, disagree,
fight, or even so much as stand up for herself. In her attempt to
please everyone, she loses a sense of identity, a sense of self, and her
even her voice.]
Therapist:
Now, why in Gods name would you give up a good
fight like this?
Client:
Well, I didnt want to ruin his life, and I thought if he
wants her . . . [No one can really ruin someone elses life without that
person allowing it. So this is an opening for a shift in awareness, a
re-orientation.]
Therapist: Youre not that powerful. Client:
Well, anyway,
she still . . .
Therapist:
[smiling] You didnt want to hear that one at all did
you? Have you actually ruined anybodys life?
Client:
I dont think so.
Therapist:
Have you tried?
Client:
No.
Therapist:
So, not only have you not done it, but you havent put
any effort into doing it. So we dont even know if youre any good
at it or not. Well, lets try the other end of it. Have you made
anybodys life worth living?
Client:
Well, yeah. I think I helped a lot of kids in the
schools and parents.
Therapist:
So tell me a little about that. What do you do to help
people have a good life.
Client:
Well, when I was an elementary counselor I helped
lots of kids. I taught them things that they needed to know to be
happy in their lives.
Therapist: You know if I had a couple of days with you I would
let you get by with that, but Ive got really a short amount of time.
So tell me what you did to help them. Concrete stuff.
Client:
Okay. I helped kids feel good about themselves.
Therapist:
Howd you do that?
Client:
I, um . . . thats a good question.
Therapist: Thank you.
Client:
I was happy to see them. I enjoyed being with them,
and I let them know that.
Therapist: You were happy to see all of them? Client:
Yeah, I was.
Therapist:
Even those trouble makers?
Client:
Yeah, I enjoyed those little troublemakers. Therapist:
Whatd you enjoy about the little devils?
Client:
I enjoyed their, whats the word . . . their ability, their
creativity, I guess.
Therapist:
So who was the most creative troublemaker you ever
met? Client:
Oh, boy.
Therapist: Youre the oldest child in your family arent you?
Client:
No, Im the youngest.
Therapist: The youngest? Then you have no business having this
perfectionism. Did you have nothing but derelicts above you? [Use
of humor to facilitate therapeutic relationships also helps the client to
step back and re-assess her rules of interaction.]
Client:
I had two brothers.
Therapist:
So you did have nothing but derelicts. Okay, well just
set a couple of ground rules. If I make the mistake, which I could,
and say, Whats the most, whats the best, whats the biggest?: just
ignore me. Just pick anything, because otherwise you will be

searching your memory for the most important one, and Im down to
thirty minutes. So just pick one. Pick one of the great
troublemakers of your time.
Client:
Ok. Well, I can remember way back in my very
beginning years as a counselor. I was in Junior High, and this kid
would come in to see me everyday, and hed do that just to get out of
class, but I really enjoyed being with him. The teachers hated him,
so they were glad to get rid of him, and it turned out everybody was
happy.
Therapist: What did you do with him?
Client:
We just talked about whatever he wanted to talk
about. Therapist: Mm, hmm. Did he trust you right away?
Client:
I think so. Therapist: Why?
Client:
Because Im a trustworthy person. I dont know.
Therapist:
Could be, but you must have done something to
demonstrate that, because all the other people who looked like you
were teachers, and he hated them.
Client:
Thats true. I guess I was probably a good excuse to
get out of class.
Therapist: What did you do?
Client:
I listened to him.
Therapist:
Did you disagree with him?
Client:
Probably, I dont really remember all that, but I just
remember enjoying him. It made me feel important, and I liked that.
Therapist:
Ok. Now, did you ever have anyone who just hated
you? Client:
My sons girlfriend.
Therapist:
Besides her.
Client:
No, I cant think of anyone. Therapist: So this is a
new experience for you. Client:
Yeah, yeah I guess so.
Therapist:
So actually you dont really have a lot of life
experience on what to do with people who are really just obnoxious.
Client:
Right, but Im getting it fast.
Therapist: And fortunately you have a therapist that can help you
with that, because I have a lot of experience being obnoxious.
[Client laughs] Are you having fun yet?
Client:
Yeah.
Therapist:
Ok. I think you have something that you are going to
have to decide. [The therapist moves from a playful interaction to a
very serious discussion. The contrast focuses attention, heightens
awareness, and augments the therapeutic contact.]
Client:
Ok.
Therapist: You are going to have to decide whether you want to
still live or you want to just die and walk around until your body
catches up.
Client:
I dont understand. Therapist: Which part?
Client:
The whole thing.
Therapist:
Ok, to live, youre going to have to become a person.
And if you just want to die and wait until your body catches up, you
can just do exactly what youre doing.
Client:
Hmm.
Therapist:
Got any feel for which way you want to go?
Client:
Id like to live.
Therapist: Would you? Client:
Um, hmm. Therapist: As
a real person? Client:
Um, hmm. Therapist:
Okay.
Client:
Yeah, because I just feel like Ive been meeting
everyone elses needs.
Therapist: Thats right. You know what happens to somebody
who spends her life pleasing everyone else?
Client:
They dont get pleased.
Therapist: And what do people do with doormats? Client:
They step on them.
Therapist: Yeah. I probably have not said anything this hard to
anyone in a long time. This is a hard thing for me to say to you, and
I think its probably a hard thing for you to hear, isnt it?
Client:
Um, hmm.
Therapist: You see, initially I thought you were possibly grieving
about the loss of your son, but now I know you were getting ready
to grieve for the loss of yourself.
Client:
Quite true.
Therapist:
How old are you?

Client:
65.
Therapist:
Only ten years older than me, and Ill tell you
something: youre at the age, now, that, when I am your age, I plan
on kicking butt and taking no prisoners. Now, what kind of person
do you want to be?
Client:
Ive always wanted to be bubbly. Ive never been
bubbly.
And I envy people who are bubbly. [Note: Bubbly isnt a
behavioral description; its an evaluation.]
Therapist:
Do you? What do bubbly people do?
Client:
They can talk to everybody and say anything and not
care what others think.
Therapist:
Can I stop for just a second? Client:
Uh, huh.
Therapist:
I want to make a point here. This is just a gentler
version of the question. Whats she afraid of? [With an audience,
the therapist has an indirect means of talking to the client that at one
and the same time lets her hear what is being suggested and also take
a break from our work.]
Audience: Rejection (comment from the audience).
Therapist: Yes. She doesnt have any confidence in her ability to
be this person that she would like to be. She just spent probably a
good 20+ years of her life watching all those people who do have it.
Shes a measurer. She looks at it, and she says thats them, this is
me, and the gulf is too damn big to get over.
Am I right? Client:
Thats right.
Therapist: Yeah. And so, if I start working with her right now on
being a bubbly person, which of us is going to win that one? I
think we need something else. Lets see. Itll help me if I can get a
few small pieces of kind of objective stuff about you. Is that okay?
Client:
Mm, hmm.
Therapist: You said you are the youngest. Client:
Mm,
hmm.
Therapist: Any miscarriages?
Client:
No.
Therapist: Any daughters in your family besides you, or were
you the only little princess everybody had?
Client:
I was just the princess.
Therapist:
Okay, who is closest to you in age? Client:
My
brother, Mark.
Therapist:
Mark? And how much older than you is he? Client:
Four years.
Therapist: And are you more like him or different from him?
Client:
Probably different.
Therapist:
In what way?
Client:
Well, he wasnt as studious, and he was kind of
slovenly.He was easy going.
Therapist:
He wasnt as studious; he was slovenly; he was easy
going
Client:
I think I was kind of easy going, though.
Therapist:
Ill help you with the other one if you want me to. He
was bubbly. [Bad guess, but nothing lost.]
Client:
Well no, but he wasnt afraid of anybody.
Therapist:
Okay, so he made friends easily.
Client:
Yeah.
Therapist:
Did you find it hard making friends?
Client:
No.
Therapist:
So, how is he different?
Client:
Well, he had bad grammar. Thats another bad thing.
Therapist: And who, besides you, had good grammar?
Client:
My brother, Dave, my older brother.
Therapist: And Dave turned out to be what?
Client:
Hes a sign painter.
Therapist:
Hes a sign painter. Well, you need good grammar for
that. Client:
Its amazing how many sign painters put bad
grammar on
their signs.
Therapist: What does Mark do? Client:
Hes a farmer.
Therapist:
So were you the first person in your family to get a
college degree?
Client:
Mm, hmm.
Therapist: Anyone celebrate that?
Client:
Yeah, and when I got my doctorate, my brother Dave
came. Therapist: How about your family, your parents?

Client:
My dad came to it.
Therapist:
Is he like Dave or like Mark?
Client:
Hes like Mark.
Therapist:
In what way?
Client:
He doesnt like to dress up. He was a rancher or a
farmer. Therapist: So you doctoral type people are a bit uppity for
him? Client:
No, he was always just very accepting of
everybody. Therapist:
He was? Thats nice. What about your
mother?
Client:
My mother was very demanding. I never liked my
mother much. Until I got married, and then I thought she was
wonderful.
Therapist: What changed? Client:
She was very helpful.
Therapist:
In child rearing and that kind of stuff?
Client:
Yeah.
Therapist:
How did you find your husband?
Client:
We were in college together.
Therapist:
Did you go after him or him after you?
Client:
Well, he went after me, I guess. Therapist:
So why
did you give in?
Client:
Because somebody told me I should.
Therapist:
So someone told you that you should kind of get
interested in the guy, and you caved in and did it. You got married
right after college?
Client:
No, we got married when I was a sophomore.
Therapist:
Okay. Think back to when you were really young, and
then I am going to stop doing my quasi-objective stuff. Whats
something you remember from when you were really little?
Client:
Well, my very earliest memory was when I was just a
toddler, and I remember we were at the ocean, and all the sudden the
water was coming at me, and it scared me to death, and my dad
picked me up.
Therapist: And how did you feel?
Client:
I felt scared when the water was coming at me, but
then daddy saved me.
Therapist:
Got any others?
Client:
One time we went camping. I was, I dont know, 4 or
5, and we were . . . my brothers and my dad were out in the boat,
and my mother and I were in camp, and I was wandering around
from campground to campground, and I saw this . . . what had been
a fire, and the ashes were just so soft. And I took off my shoes and
waded through it barefoot, because I thought it would feel good on
my feet.
Therapist: What happened?
Client:
My feet got burned.
Therapist:
Howd you feel?
Client:
Hurt.
Therapist:
Hurt. Okay, one last one.
Client:
Let me think. My minds blank. [pause] . . . I
remember in first grade I was in a play, and it was a great big
auditorium, and it was packed with people, and so I was talking
really, really loud, and it was about mice running around. And I
got up on this chair, stood on the chair, and I gave this long speech
and realized it was the wrong one.
Therapist: The wrong speech?
Client:
The wrong line. And so I yelled out Oh no and
turned around and gave the right speech, the right line.
Therapist:
Howd you feel?
Client:
I felt . . . and everybody laughed . . . and I felt okay. I
felt like I had fixed it.
Therapist:
Good for you. If you hadnt had that memory, I would
have been sitting here until we found one. Youve been doing
[interpreting early memories] for some time. What do you think
about the first two memories you had?
Client:
Well, Ive analyzed them and analyzed them. I
cant . . . Im not sure. Maybe I want somebody to save me, or when
I do things on my own, I get in trouble, and it hurts me.
Therapist:
Ok. I might have said it a little differently, but were
in the same ballpark. What do you get from the third memory?
Client:
I can make mistakes, and Im still okay.
Therapist:
Now were at the critical juncture of life. If you would
like to be a person, you will have to spend more time with the third

memory, and less with the other two, and if you want to be dead you
have to join with the other two.
Client:
Okay.
Therapist:
How would a really tough broad . . . ? (she smiles) You
like this already dont you? How would a really tough broad handle
herself after she mistakenly tramps through the coals?
Client:
I dont know, put on boots.
Therapist: Yep, lets say you didnt have any. Lets say you
actually got yourself into it; youre running across hot coals, and in
the middle you realize this was a mistake, how does a tough broad
handle it?
Client:
Get out of there.
Therapist: Yes, and?
Client:
Take care of my feet.
Therapist:
Im going to tell you something an old teacher of mine
told me back in 1975 just before I went out to do my first
presentation on the Family Education Center before the world
famous Kiwanis Club. He said to me, Just go out and do it as if
you know what youre talking about.
And I said, Yeah, but I dont.He said Yes, but they dont know
that. I said: I dont know if I have that confidence.
He said, You know when we were out tramping in that cow pasture
the other night, and you stepped in stuff, and made
a big deal out of it? I said: Yes.
He said: Confidence is walking on as if you hadnt done it. Now,
then, this is a secret about life. There is no such thing as a confident
person: just those who are good at faking it, and those who arent.
And the big problem, or at least part of the problem that youve had
in life, is that youve had the illusion that there really are confident
people out there: Somehow theyve got it together, and you just cant
seem to do it. But you see
youve got that third memory, and youre in trouble, because even
you know that you can. What were the strengths in
that memory?
Client:
Being able to redirect.
Therapist: Thats right.
Client:
Making people laugh.
Therapist: Absolutely.
Client:
Speaking loud.
Therapist: Yes!
Client:
Memorized two different lines.
Therapist: You have options. What kept you from looking out at
the audience and seeing a huge wave coming at you that was going
to kill you?
Client:
I dont know.
Therapist:
See if you can get there. Close your eyes for a second.
Lets go back. Put yourself on that stage. Just look out at those
people. You can do that. Youre an elegant, beautiful, 65 year old
woman who can look out there and not be frightened by them. So,
just take a look. What do you see?
Client:
Accepting people. Therapist: What do they look
like?
Client:
They look the same as everybody.
Therapist: They look the same as everybody. Now, up until a few
weeks ago, you were the Will Rogers of Butte, Montana. You never
met anybody you didnt like and who didnt like you. Its true, isnt
it?
Client:
Its more than a few weeks. Its been several years.
And my brother now is turned against me too. [Her last statement is
an invitation to de-focus that the therapist cannot follow.] Therapist:
Well, this is also true: When it rains it pours. The good news
is that it also works the other way around. When you turn one thing
around, whole bunches of things start to work out. Now, what were
the skills that you used all those years in school counseling to win

over everybody from the brilliant student to the snot? What were
those skills that you used?
Client:
I just did what I could. Therapist:
Like what?
Client:
I followed the rules. Therapist: Thats important.
What else?
Client:
I reached out to others, and I was there for them.
Therapist:
Okay, lets try something. I will do a really bad version
of your possible future daughter-in-law.
Client:
I hope not.
Therapist: And you do your skills. Youve ruined everything.
Client:
[The client leans forward, takes a deep breath, and
focuses.] Therapist:
Now, before you start, I loved what you just
did. What did
you just do? [Performance is enhanced by awareness and full contact
with oneself and ones energy.]
Client:
I moved in. Therapist: Yes, what else?
Client:
I looked you in the eye. Therapist: Yes, what else?
Client:
I took a breath.
Therapist: Yes, and thats the difference between living and dying.
People who are living have to take a breath. So the first thing you do
is take a breath in; then you lean forward, and you put all of your
energy into your center just like you did. Now what do you have to
say?
Client:
I dont know.
Therapist:
Start over. Because this is what your breath was like
when I just asked you what you had to say. [Therapist takes in
shallow breath and holds it.] I want you to breathe. Keep in mind
you have been handling people just like this, even though they
havent seemed like this: Youve been handling
people like this for 25 years. What do you have to say to this person?
Client:
Im sorry you feel that way. If Gary is so bad, why
do you like him?
Therapist:
Now, how does it feel for you to say that?
Client:
It gives me power.
Therapist: Yes, and hows it feel to say that? Client:
It feels
good.
Therapist: What kind of good?
Client:
Well, I got it out.
Therapist: What happens if it just stays in? Client:
It just
smolders there.
Therapist: Yes. When youre smoldering inside, are you living or
dying?
Client:
Dying.
Therapist:
Okay, lets carry it one step further.
Well, I dont need you around. Hes hard enough for me as he is. I
dont need to tell you why I love him. After all, its not your
business.
Client:
[in her strongest, most centered voice] I realize that,
but I want the best for my son, and I hope that youre the best for
him.
Therapist:
Oooh. Hows that? Client:
That was really
hard.
Therapist: Yes, but it was practically perfect. You just took my
breath away. You dont have to back down from any punk kid.You
havent done it for 25 years, and no reason to do it now. The main
thing is this: You already have everything you need inside you;
youve always had it; and whats left for you is to stop ignoring it and
use it. You might want to practice a little bit, because you are a
little rusty, but you arent dead. And then when you get done with
your son, and his new friend, you start inviting other people to do
things with you. You invite them and dont wait for them to invite
you, because, by God, you are worth having as a friend. Hows this
been for you?
Client:
Its been great.
Therapist: Youve been great.
Client:
Thank you.
Therapist: Youre welcome.

>>>Insight:
Upon reading these two transcripts, Adlerian Brief Therapy helped me further understand the main goal of the therapy which is to
help clients identify and change their mistaken beliefs about self, others and life. Furthermore, upon the identification of this faulty
assumptions, Adlerian therapists (specifically Dr. Gilchrist and the second therapist) were able to help clients to have a sense of
connectedness through encouraging the clients to participate more fully on a social world.
From these 2 transcripts, I was able grasp that we are often victims of faulty assumptions or inaccurate perceptions of the past that
drive the kinds of choices we make. These choices are often based on our family constellation, birth order, and childhood memories. It was
evident how the therapist make use of these factors that might affect the clients experience/ decisions.
I think I must also acknowledge the use of stages that includes collaborative relationship, analyzing the clients problems, sharing
insights, helping the client reorient himself or herself to new ways of living, and reinforcing and evaluating the change process. Hence, the
systematized and humanistic approach of the Adlerian Brief Therapy through the showing of empathy, conducting a lifestyle assessment,
examining early recollections and dreams, communicating respect and confidence, focusing on strengths and encourage clients, help clients
combat faulty assumptions, and focus on goals

Existential Therapy
Dr. Neukrug: and that was very difficult for you and you kind of hid, is that
accurate?

Dr. Neukrug: Well Betty, I want to thank you for coming in today and agreeing to
share some of your thoughts and concerns with me and um, wanna just kind of open
it up and start wherever you liked:
Betty: Well uh, I just recently retired from the police department and Im moving
into a profession now, (into) counseling where I understand that I will need to have
some type of closeness, a relationship with my clients, but I really dont have any,
that much experience in that regard because of my work and um, like the only uh,
substantial relationship Ive had was with my mother.
Dr. Neukrug: Its fascinating I find the contrast between being a police officer and a
counselor really interesting. Especially when you talk about the fact that it sounds
like you want some intimacy in your life, but you havent really had that except for
with your mother, so there is a stark contrast there between, again between being a
police officer and being a counselor. It sounds like you want to move into that
direction of having more intimacy in your life in general.
Betty: Yes um, I just I just find it, I find it hard to talk about um, I umm
Dr. Neukrug: Which parts to talk about?
Betty: Uh, the intimacy part and I dont understand how to work it, how to work it
out because theres certain aspects of myself that just didnt uh, acknowledge, I
ignored. Id say the emotional part of myself was not honored. And now that Im
stepping out of a role in which I had a script, you know, I had the uniform, I knew
what I had to do there was no question about what I had to do each day it was like a
mantra, it was like something I did everyday and now, its I have to be, I have to
come out of myself.
Dr. Neukrug: It almost sounds robot-like. Um, that you kind of, lived a role you
even said it you wore a uniform. And you put a certain image out to the world an
image which was maybe not the real you, as you saw yourself inside and now youre
really searching for who that inner being is.
Betty: Right More so uh also, um, working in an environment that has been
historically racist and sexist uh... you tend to want to be invisible. Oh I mean to say
you tend to be I tend to want to be invisible and not and not be in front, so
open about who I was. It was like I just following the role, being like the good girl
and my womanhood was not honored it was a minor thing and it was not just
something, not just talking about the people, Im talking about with myself and how
its coming out thats who I am.
Dr. Neukrug: OK, so you found that, in that environment being a police officer, am I
correct in hearing that you personally experienced racism and sexism
Betty: Yes...

Betty: Yes, yes... um the way I dealt with that was to to feel like I had to achieve in
order to be accepted, it was conditional. Um, I dont know what else to say about
that. It was... it was uh, hard lessons. I learned a lot I also had to look at look at
how I, my role in all of it
Dr. Neukrug: You made some difficult choices I think as a police officer, in terms of
how you were going to live your life because of the sexism and racism and the nature
of being a police officer. The choices were maybe they werent even that conscious,
but it sounds like the choices where to kind of hide your real self.
Betty: Well it wasnt like well it was true it wasnt conscious, uh I had to come to
this point reading, books and looking at other people to realize how much of myself
was unconscious of what I was really doing was detrimental to me as a person
and emotionally. So now that I have to work with people in that area, I need to, uh I
need to know myself and how to be in the world authentically.
Dr. Neukrug: Well Im certainly impressed that this is, that youve switched roles
like that and that this is your new goal for yourself um and Im really interested in
how you were able to raise your consciousness around your lack of awareness of self
and your lack of intimacy and how you were playing roles. How did you do that?
Betty: Well, Id say it happened two different ways. One way was books I uh, there
was a book I found called, Black Feminist Thought that really opened my eyes a
lot and also when my mother was sick, I realized I was working and I realized that
the role of caring and the heart is so much more important to me in this life than
then the, I dont know what other way to put it, but a masculine way of being
being out there and then the role of caretaking when my mother was sick was very
important. I had to really like, really open up to that and that takes a lot of courage
to uh do that
Dr. Neukrug: Yes it does and I hear how courageous you were. And I think Im also
hearing these kind of two parts of yourself being opened up at the same time and that
was that feeling part of yourself through your mothers illness and also kind of the
intellectual part of yourself through this book that you read and other books that
youve read. The both of those kind of raised your consciousness about the
importance for you that you found more authenticity in your life.
Betty: Mmm-hmm, that was because, uh when you watch someone suffer which is
hard, I mean with the police work, uh there was uh, it was more of a
Dr. Neukrug: Detached suffering?
Betty: Detached pseudo kind of presence I guess and you knew that you had to
bind yourself emotionally to get through it. Its not a bad thing because, sometimes
you need to do that uh you just dont know what to do with it. And when my
mother was sick Then I had to really look at those feelings and try to integrate
then and that was really hard a lot of anger and all that.
Dr. Neukrug: So again, your mothers illness really made you look at yourself in
some deeper ways.

Betty: Right, right. I had to make decisions to balance work and was at the hospital
with her a lot so I had to balance work and be there or make the decision to leave
work and be there, you know, leave so I had to uh, it was it was like I dont know
if this makes any sense, but it was like dealing with my mother and father. Like the
police department, to me, was like my surrogate father where you were like, not
exactly I would say, a balanced view of a father, but you had to be there, you had to
stay strong, you had to do your job along with my mom it was it was different, I
had to be open and receptive and feeling, like you said get in touch with feeling
parts.

Dr. Neukrug: That was you before and now we have a new you and Ive got to say, I
really respect this new you. As you are honoring yourself, honoring your emotional
self and beginning to listen to it more effectively, more frequently.

Dr. Neukrug: Yeah, I think that I can really understand what youre saying. I had a
kind of similar experience with my mom who was ill a few years ago and passed
away and I was like I was living two lives in some ways. Is that kind of the
experience that you had?

Betty: Thank you. Seems like I have to work really, really hard to be uh, anything
more than ordinary so Ill just uh, just keep working as long as I dont lose myself
in my work, thats a fear too (laughs)

Betty: Yeah, more frequently thank you.

Dr. Neukrug: Well it sounds like its been a kind of, hard road for you in recent years,
but it, Im also hearing that youre making some really good choices for your self as
youre moving forward in your life. And again, I really respect that.

Dr. Neukrug: You want to remain real

Betty: Yeah, exactly living two livesyeah.
Betty: Right, right, right, right! Yeah
Dr. Neukrug: And I guess the um, in a way, and I hope you understand how I mean
this, the gift that your mom gave you, in her illness, was to help you see a deeper part
of yourself.
Betty: Alright, yeah absolutely because I did have to, um, walk through that and
see I, I mean I really had to just be there and connect with a deeper part of myself
which wasnt very easy or pretty. Life was very messy, yeah yeah.

Dr. Neukrug: I guess Im thinking a lot of times we think that, um, life is gonna be
easy, but um as youre showing us, it usually isnt. There are so many things in
life that, that give us difficult, hard times and messages to ourselves about who we
are and where were going and I think youre really hearing some of the messages
youre getting about yourself.
Betty: Can you give me something to uh, take with me? (laughs)

Dr. Neukrug: So now youve chosen a field which is, and maybe this was more of a
conscious choice, youve chosen a field which deals mostly with authenticity and
realness and now you wanna move on with your life in a new way. In a way where
you have more realness in relationships, more intimacy, um, perhaps realness in your
counseling relationships, perhaps more realness in your friendship and love
relationships and now you can consciously begin to make choices about bringing
yourself to this new place. Does that make any sense to you?
Betty: Yeah , I um, I have to well I need to, lets see I would say honor my
emotional life, which I have not done. Its, uh, usually a sign of weakness in my uh,
my way of being in the world before

Dr. Neukrug: I guess what Im hearing thats a great question! I guess what Im
hearing is that youve bee giving your self something and if I can give you anything
thats what I want to give you and that is to continue to give yourself that sense of
inner awareness that youve begun to give to yourself. Thank you for sharing today.
Betty: Thanks

END.

Transcript 2
TH 1 Gina, I find it best when starting something like this to make a transition. CL
1 Okay.
TH 2 And what I am going to do and encourage you to try is just to breath inside
and, and get quite inside.
CL 2 Okay.
TH 3 So we start from a level playing ground or whatever that means.
CL 3 Okay. Neutrality, okay. All right.
(Pause)
TH 4 How'd it go? Could you do it? CL 4 No. It's weird.
TH 5 It's hard, isn't it. Yeah.
CL 5 It's, someone had asked me What do you do during your quiet time? I'm
like, what time? [TH Mhm] Quiet time? What is that? I don't have quiet time. I
mean my quiet time is usually after the kids go to bed, and then I'm grading papers
or cleaning house, or doing something else. It's still not quiet. [TH Still not quiet
time] There is no noise from other people, but, [TH Inside it's fairly noisy] Yeah. The
only time that's real quiet time is when I actually go to sleep. Yeah, I think that's it.
Although I like times when it is quiet. [TH Mhm] You know, [TH Mhm] and I do
know those times. Like Ooo, you know, I didn't do anything. You know, it's kind
of quiet and I, I need to have more of those I think. [TH Mhm] I need time like that.
TH 6 I think they're important. CL 6 Yeah, yeah. They are. TH 7 Try this.
CL 7 Okay.

CL
11
Mhm. [TH Uh huh] Yeah. Being able to, to be productive in
the world.
[TH Mhm] To be successful [TH Mhm] with as few failures as possible. [TH Mhm] I
don't, no, I really don't like that.
TH 12 These sound like instructions. Like survive, be productive, don't fail. [CL
Yeah] Is it that kind of . . .
CL 12 Yeah, it's, um, it's instructions, but it's, I want to say it's natural, but not
really, um. It's just something that I've been trying to do pretty much all my life, I
guess. [TH Mhm] Um, even when I was a kid. When I think about it, trying to
succeed [TH Mhm] even if it was playing double Dutch or if it's my grades or if it's
doing the best cleaning up job in the house to please my mom and dad, [TH Mhm,
Mhm] I always wanted to be on top. [TH Mm] And nobody said I had to be on top.
TH 13 Mhm, mhm. Except inside. CL 13 Yeah.
TH 14 Inside it said you had to.
CL 14 Yeah. Inside said I got to be perfect. And it's something I'm just, I realized
'cause I have a girlfriend who, I told her my oldest son had to get glasses. He's had
them about maybe three weeks now. And the minute I heard he had to wear glasses I
felt like I failed. [TH Ahh] And I know it had nothing to do with
me, [TH Ahh, yeah] but it was one of those like I sort of didn't do something I was
supposed to do [TH Mhm] to help him out in this world. And I told my girlfriend
that and she says Are you serious? I said uh huh. I was serious that it did feel
like I did something wrong, [TH Mhm] I didn't do what I was supposed to do. TH
15 Boy, really.

TH 8 Just go into your center and don't try to be quiet. Just see what's, what's going
on there. What's spontaneously going on in you.
CL 8 Okay. (laughter) [TH Mm] A lot. There is a lot. TH 9 A lot. Kind of a wry
laugh.
CL 9 Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, oh, how could I not, there's a lot of things going
on, you know. [TH Mhm] Yeah. Inside, probably outside. [TH Mhm] Yeah, a lot of
things on my mind. A lot.

CL 15 And she was like, I never knew that about you. Now we've been pretty close
now for maybe five years so, it's still a new friendship. We're still learning about
each other and things, but she was quite surprised to hear.
TH 16 Mhm. What strikes me is how ready you were to point the finger at yourself
and find fault with you.
CL 16 Yeah, I do that. TH 17 You do that.
CL 17 Mhm.

TH
CL
TH

TH 18 Otherwise too?

10
10
11

Does it have a common denominator, a theme, a music?

Um, yeah. Pretty much survival.
Survival? Say more.

CL 18 Yeah, I, I do. I mean, I try to find good in me, too. Don't get me wrong. [TH
Mhm, mhm] But yeah, I kind of, I want to find a mistake before somebody else [TH

Ahh] does so that I can sort of take care of them, at least get ready, [TH Uh huh huh]
so I'm prepared for when somebody notices them.
TH 19 Mhm. That's funny. That brought a little laugh twice. Did you hear it? CL
19 A little bit, maybe, yeah.
TH 20 What's that?
CL 20 'Cause I know it's stupid for me to feel this way.
TH 21 Oh, see, now there you found fault with, you called yourself stupid. CL 21
Yeah, yeah, I did. I know that to be perfect is impossible. [TH Yeah]
That humans aren't supposed to be perfect. That's the science and logic behind me
and, but I can't help but want to be perfect even though I know that it's not
normal. I mean, you're supposed to make mistakes. How else do you learn if you
don't make mistakes. But I just don't want to make any mistakes. [TH Mhm] And
especially I don't want mistakes for my kids. I don't want them to make any
mistakes. I want to try to cushion every corner I can to make sure they don't run into
problems, [TH Mhm] and I think my mom kind of wanted to do the same
thing for me too, [TH Mhm] but yet I fought it. [TH Mhm] Typical, you know.
Don't do this. I'm going to do this anyway. Just to see, you know, the testing and all
of that. But she was kind of protective, I guess. [TH Mhm] And I'm protective too.
TH 22 Kind of protective I guess. How come I guess?
CL 22 Yeah, well I was able to do some things, but I guess not a lot of things. TH
23 There's another guess. Do you have to guess about Gina?
CL 23 Yeah, now I do. Especially because so many things are . . .
TH 24 You just kind of bit your lip when you thought about that. What's that about?
CL 24 (laughter) Mm, I don't know. Just, just something I guess I do. I poke my
lip out . . .
TH 25 See, did you hear the guess there? Something I guess I do.
CL 25 Something I guess I do. That's my, probably that's a word I use to cover
myself.
TH 26 That's a probably. That's like a guess. [CL Mhm] You know we use those
things sometimes so we don't get caught just standing firmly in some way. [CL
Mhm] Does that feel right?
CL 26 Mhm. Yeah, it does, yeah. It goes back to I have to be ready for anything
that comes up. [TH Mmm] So I'm covering myself so if I can say I guess, that sort of
gives me the chance of saying yup or maybe no.
TH 27 Maybe not.
CL 27 Yeah, mhm. So that I do. And it has to do with whether I agree with like
when I was being raised by my mom, being protective and things like that. In a way
I agree with some of the things that she did, and in a way I don't agree. [TH Yeah] So
that's why that word guess comes in, because it's giving her some flexibility. Yeah,
she did okay, but she wasn't perfect, although she never tried to be perfect. [TH
Mhm] She said that.
TH
28
You're the one who tries to be perfect.
CL
28
Yup. Yeah, I do, I know.
TH
29
Mhm. What happened that time?
CL
29
Cause I know I shouldn't, that it's okay to be who I am, that
there's
nothing wrong with who I am, and it's okay to make mistakes. [TH Mhm] I tell my
two boys that all the time. It's all right to make a mistake, but yet, it's hard to
swallow that myself.
TH 30 Mhm. You don't give yourself the permission you give them.
CL 31 Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't. [TH Mhm] But yet when I do make a mistake . . .
TH 32 What do you think about that? What do you think about Gina? CL 32
Probably it causes more . . .
TH 33 No, that's probably. See that's like a guess. CL 33 (laughter) Yeah.
TH 34 Let's think, you're better, you give your boys more freedom to make
mistakes than you give Gina. [CL Mhm] Sort of chew that one for a minute and see
what comes.
CL 34 I'm responsible for them, that's why I can't make mistakes. They're still
learning.
TH 35 No laugh this time.
CL 35 No, no, no laugh this time, 'cause I take the raising of them very seriously.
TH 36 Very serious.
CL 36 Yeah, 'cause I brought them into this world. And I always said growing up
that if I'm going to bring children into the world, I'm the one that's supposed to be
responsible. Nobody else, me, you know. And so I do take it very seriously. [Mhm]
Sometimes I don't even enjoy being a mom, 'cause I take it so seriously, yeah.
TH

37

Ahh, it spoils some of the good times.

CL
37
Yeah. Some of the fun that we should have we don't have
probably.
TH
38
For example.
CL
38
Oh like I'll go home from work, [TH Mhm] and I've been
away from them
all day, and I miss them, but instead of me just being kind of jovial like, hey guys,
how are you doing, da da, da da, I sort of jump into the, okay, did you put your book
bag away, did you put coat away? Did you start your homework? Did you do. [TH
Ahh] And, and that is part of me. Organized, have everything in place. Because if it
is then they have less problems in their life.
TH 39 True.
CL 39 They don't wake up in the morning wondering where's my book bag or
where's my coat or where's this. So that keeps them sort of organized, but it does
create a situation where it's like dang, I wish we'd just sort of not worry about it
for a while. [TH Mhm] You know, so I've tried sometimes to not do that. I call it
nagging, 'cause it falls into that category, you know, but. . .
TH 40 But how's it going?
CL 40 Mm. There are days when it's good and days when it's bad. I'm beginning to
recognize it though now. When I feel tension I realize okay, wait, whoa, stop for a
minute. Let's just chill for a while, and then I think okay, you didn't come in
and do this, this and this. [TH Mhm] You came in and did this and this. And then I
have to think about what happened with them. And then sometimes I, the general
statement is, well, how did school go? Oh fine. But that's the typical response that
they are going to give me. But later on in the evening, I'll hear about something
that happened at recess, or something else. [TH Mhm] But see if I don't hear that at
first, then I jump into my thing that I've got. I have my agenda, and they might not
be quite there because they are still dealing with what happened at school, [TH Yes]
and so that I have to, I'm catching myself more on now, you know and . . .
TH 41 Well, one thing I can see is you don't stop on Gina. You're teaching her new
things and keeping on top of her.
CL 41 Yeah, yeah, um.
TH 42 Kind of a look when you hear that.
CL 42 I'm changing. I'm growing. I'm, I'm definitely not stagnant. TH 43 You're
not stagnant.
CL 43 No, I was a while ago. TH 44 Were you? Oh.
CL 44 Yeah, mhm. For about a couple of years I was pretty much stuck in the same
spot. [TH Mhm] But I'm not going to be there for much longer. Well, actually I'm out
of it. Well, not that I'm out of it, I'm working my way out of it,
'cause it is going to be ongoing.
TH 45 Say more. It sounds like something important is going on in you. CL 45
Yeah, yeah. I'm getting a divorce so (laughter) that is pretty, pretty important.
TH 46 Yeah, it is, yeah.
CL 46 Yeah. I'll be taking care of the boys. I'll be the custodian for the boys, so
there's a lot on my mind and, as I said, there's a lot, there's a lot going on. Quiet time
is like . . . no quiet time. Although I'm trying to find times where it's quiet, you
know, and it's working out pretty good, you know. But, as it gets closer to that time
where it's about to end. It's shaky. It's, it's a lot going on, you know, in my mind,
and . . .
TH 47 You're shaky?
CL 47 Yeah, I'm shaky, [TH Mhm] meaning that I have some doubts now that
maybe I didn't have before. I have some concerns that I didn't have before, as you
get closer to that point where everything is like over. You wonder, did I do the right
thing? Am I doing the right thing? All along I was thinking that, but as it
gets to the end, there goes that what if I'm making a mistake. [TH Uh huh] Or what if
I'm not doing the right thing. That goes back to being perfect again. TH 48 Yes it
sure does.
CL 48 And it's something I've been thinking about for a couple of weeks now. [TH
Mhm] Especially after my son getting the glasses, I thought about how I felt, but it
was like, hm, this is, you know . . .
TH 49 That showed you how judgmental you are. CL 49 Yeah.
TH 50 About yourself, yeah.
CL 50 Yeah, yeah. I am. Although, I like myself. [TH Mhm] I do. [TH Mhm]
Um, I don't know, I don't know. I still don't know why I had to be so perfect. I don't
know. It's just, I try to pinpoint when did it start, and I don't know when. It just sort
of, you know, started happening.
TH 51 That's a hard question to answer, yeah. CL 51 Yeah, yeah.
TH 52 What is it, are you most apt to be judgmental, under what conditions? CL 52
Hmm. Probably in terms of raising my boys to make sure I'm doing the very best
that I can. [TH Mhm] As far as making the right decisions and giving them the right

opportunities or consequences, and things like that. Um. I wonder. [TH Mhm]
Especially being a female raising two boys. [TH Mhm] There I tend to be a little
more judgmental. [TH Mhm] Probably with relationships with men I am going to be
very judgmental. [TH Mhm] Um, that's going to be interesting.
TH 53 Your mouth, what, when you said relations, what goes on when you do that?
CL 53 (laughter) I poked my lip out when I did that. Well, I don't want to make the
same mistakes I made the first time around. That's the first thing with me, yeah,
definitely.
TH 54 I heard it.
CL 54 Goes back to being perfect again. Not perfect, but just making sure that I go
about it the right way this time and that I don't go into it thinking certain things are
going to happen and they're not. I don't want to go into another relationship thinking
I am going to change that person because that's what I thought at first. [TH Mhm]
And you can't really do that. [TH Mm] I'm stuck on how much I want them to take
care of me. [TH Mhm] See I grew up with my dad taking care of us. [TH Mhm] My
mom stayed home for most of the time, but then she started to work. But dad was the
major breadwinner and mom was the one that we came home and she was there
cooking meals and things like that. [TH Mhm] And even when she started working,
she became a teacher, so she had the same hours that we did. [TH Mhm] But I grew
up with dad was the one, the male was the one,
who was supposed to take care of everything. [TH Mhm] And in my marriage that
has not been the case at all. [TH Mhm] So, it's totally different. [TH Big grin] Well, I
can accept that now. I fought it for a while, and I didn't like it for a long time.
TH 55 Past tense?
CL 55 Yeah. 'Cause in a way for me not to like it is going against me of taking
charge and being responsible and doing things and not waiting for somebody else to
do it. [TH Mhm] So, I don't know if I want someone to quote-unquote take care of
me in a relationship. [TH Mhm] I'm at a point now where I don't need anybody to
take care of me. I can do this myself.
TH 56 You're kind of mocking yourself right now, quote-unquote take care of me.
What's, what's, how come?
CL 56 Anger still probably from the relationship. TH 57 Ahh, that's a probably,
ahh, okay.
CL 57 No that's definite. No I am still angry that a lot of responsibilities fell on
me when it shouldn't have. When it should have been more of a partnership. [TH
Mhm] So, yeah. There's no problem. Definite about that. So . . .
TH 58 Yeah, you sound very different now.
CL 58 Yeah, a little. Yeah, different things play back in my mind. The time when I
have to take charge and when I didn't, you know. It's few, you know, but at the same
time where I say that, I have to look at how I am as a person. [TH Mhm] And, again,
it's not, it takes two people to make a relationship, [TH Mhm] and as much as you
come together, it takes two to make it fall apart. I even think that part of the reason
that we are not going to be together anymore is because of me and the way that I am,
the fact that I do take charge and do things and sort of like to fix stuff. I like to solve
problems for other people. Why? I don't know. It's just sort of my nature. But, it's
like there will be a problem and I just automatically start fixing it. It's not my
problem, you know, it belongs to somebody else, [TH Yeah] but, in this relationship,
in the marriage, I thought, oh, well I'm supposed to do this, and do this and do this.
And then it became well you're going to do it so why do I have to do it. And then I,
sort of like I dug
myself a hole because I started doing that. Then my husband thought well, I don't
have to do that thing, you've got to do it. And then that goes back until you feel
taken for granted, don't feel appreciated, but yet you're the one that did it. You're the
one that started jumping up and doing this, this, and this and this.
TH 59 Was that a hard thing to learn?
CL 59 Yeah. To admit that I might have. . .
TH 60 'Cause the way you mocked again, every once in a . . . you mock yourself
about something that isn't really very funny.
CL 60 I never noticed that, I never noticed that. [TH Mhm] But, yeah, I guess,
yeah, I do.
TH 61 Mhm. My hunch is that there must be a lot of hurt under there someplace.
The mocking keeps the hurt down. Does that seem right?
CL 61 (tears) Yeah, yeah. Probably, because if you find humor in it, it tends to
lessen it a bit. If you can find the joke behind it or the . . . I'm glad that's there
(Kleenex).
TH 62 It's all right.
CL 62 Yeah. It's much easier to laugh about things than to cry about them. But. . .
TH 63 Mhm. But sometimes if we laugh about instead of cry, we don't deal with the
real issue.

CL 63 Yeah. And I do that sometimes.

TH 64 Yeah. You're doing your work, yeah.
CL 64 Yeah. I haven't done this in a while. (tears) Been too busy doing things.
Probably I haven't because I make sure that I don't for the boys. [TH Mhm] Because
I know it's a change for them, and if I was strong, then they'll be able to get through
it with as little pain as possible. 'Cause that's probably the only regret I have with it.
If it was just me and him, snap. I really wouldn't think about it too much. But with
kids it's . . .
TH 65 It's another thing.
CL 65 Yeah, it is, it is, you know. But I feel strong enough about what I'm doing
that I am going to still do it. Because I tried the other way too where, oh, for the
kids, don't get divorced. And that's not good either.
TH 66 That didn't work.
CL 66 No, that's not good either, because you still stop being a person. [TH Mhm]
You still stop being who you are, and then you're no good for the kids. You're no
good for yourself first of all and then you're no good for them. [TH Mhm] So, you
know, as it's getting closer to the point where the divorce will be final, yeah, a lot of
things are going on in my head. [TH Mhm] And I don't think I
want quiet time 'cause this will happen.
TH 67 Uh huh. But sometimes that cleans the slate, you know. You'd be more real
with yourself.
CL 67 Yeah.
TH 68 'Cause it's kind of fooling yourself if you laugh instead of letting you know
your pain.
CL 68 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. [TH Mhm] Because when you do you have to accept
everything, your faults, your good things. [TH Mhm] You may have to work with
things that you, you know you try to avoid some things and you realize, man, there is
no way I can avoid it.
TH 69 Yeah, they don't go away.
CL 69 No, they don't, no they don't. You're going to have to deal with it to the best
of your ability, so . . . I have real good support, I have real good support with my
friends and with my family. [TH Mhm] So, they've helped me go through it.
TH 70 Good enough.
CL 70 Yeah, it helps, yeah, it helps. But I do beat myself up. I know I do. TH 71
Yeah, I was just going to say, they don't beat you up, you do.
CL 71 No, they don't. You know, when I think about it, I mean, they tease me about
stuff, but basically, no. They pretty much have sat back and let me try to figure
everything out on my own. But they've always reassured me that they're there, you
know, and I'm the one that's pretty much done that. I'm the one that beats myself up.
I'm more critical of myself probably than they are, you know. TH 72 Now you say
that, and it sounds right, but how do you feel about that fact? Does it matter.
CL 72 That I'm critical of myself?
TH 73 Mhm. More than other people.
CL 73 I shouldn't be, more so than other people.
TH
74
Does it matter? You didn't answer that question.
CL
74
Well, probably, no it shouldn't matter.
TH
75
Why all the (facial gestures)?
CL
75
I don't know because I'm not sure, I'm not sure.
TH
76
Yeah, I think that's an important question. Yeah, it doesn't
matter.
CL
76
I think we should self analyze, you know, figure things out.
TH
77
You bet.
CL
77
We should admit our mistakes. That we should do because if
you don't,
they are going to keep coming back, and you're never going to grow. TH 78 You
betcha.
CL 78 So that in one way I do believe that you should be critical of yourself. But it
shouldn't be distractive. [TH Mhm] It shouldn't get you into depression and you
shouldn't lose your self esteem over it. You shouldn't stop functioning because of it.
TH 79 Now I'm going to play mean [CL Okay] and point out you suddenly
switched to the second person. You're saying you shouldn't.
CL 84 But I know I have my ways that sometimes aren't the nicest or sometimes
I can be stubborn and don't want to give in.

TH 85 Mhm. But you are making beating yourself up and finding fault or finding
things that you wish were different, the same thing. I don't know whether they are or
not. Do you think they are?
CL 85 That if my faults are . . .

CL 102 Yeah, [TH Yeah] yeah. I figure things where I know it was tough [TH
Mhm] but I kept going, then I could put my head up when it was done. [TH Mhm] It
feels good, yeah.
TH 103 So there's that side of Gina too.

TH 86 If you do something, if you are stubborn. Let's take that.

CL 103 Oh yeah. [TH Yeah] Yeah. I like success. [TH Mhm] I do. I like working
hard and getting that success. I do. [TH Mhm] I like it. I mean I live for those
days sometimes. TH 104 That's it.
CL 104 Yeah. I do. Um, I see it in my oldest, too. I'm very competitive. [TH Uh
huh] Um, that drives my girlfriend crazy. Well, it doesn't drive her crazy but we're

CL 86 That's not a bad trait. [TH Mhm] I don't think that's a bad trait. TH 87 Okay.
CL 87 I think it's a good trait.
TH 88 Now you're not beating yourself up.
CL 88 Right. Yeah. [TH Yeah] You switched it. Yeah. It's a good trait to have. I like
being stubborn. [TH Mhm] I do. [TH Mhm] But I'm also flexible. [TH Mm] I have
to be because of my kids.
TH 89 They teach you.
CL 89 Yeah they do, they do. And then not even just the kids, though, but I even
like to be flexible. Me. I do. Because then it then allows me some leeway, here or
there. [TH Mhm] So maybe it goes back so I don't make a mistake [TH Mhm] or so I
can end up figuring things out and still being, like in control of things. [TH Mhm]
So, yes, so no, it's, I shouldn't beat myself up about it. You're right, I really shouldn't.
It's actually sort of a good quality, you know, yeah, um . . .
TH 90 Yeah. You look reflective now. Just stay with that and find out where it takes
you.
CL 90 Okay, um. Being stubborn eventually people will see it my way. They will
go the way that I want to go so that I end up still in charge. Um, but the first thing I
am thinking now is what if I make a mistake. See, that thought came in.
TH 91 I know.
CL 91 That thought came in. [TH Good, yeah] Just as I got done saying I'm in
charge, but what if I mess up. That is always there.
TH 92 Always there.
CL 92 Yeah. That fear of making a mistake [TH Yeah] or you know. I don't know.
I've made mistakes. [TH You] A lot. [TH Mmm] And I've come out okay from them.
[TH Mmm] I mean, there's some I wish I didn't do, [TH Yeah] but I'm still here and
still doing things. So why does it matter? I don't know why it matters so much.
TH 93 You're doing your work. Just stay in there. What if you make a mistake?
CL 93 Well, if I make a mistake it could mean I end up paying for it meaning that
more time has to be put into something, and right now it's like I'm already going five
different directions, but I think I kind of like that. [TH Ahh] My personality. I think I
like a lot of things going on at once. [TH Ah huh] If I make a mistake, it costs me
time, it costs maybe money, and that's a concern to me. Sure, I have enough money
to take care of everything, um, if I make a mistake it means I'm human.
TH 94 Oh, you grit your teeth when you say that. (laughter)
CL 94 I like being human, I do. But I want to be on the upper end of that. TH 95 I
see, okay.
CL 95 I want to be on the upper end of that. Um, making a mistake means that
maybe somebody else was right [TH Mhm] and you weren't and [TH Ooo] being
able to say okay, you were right. It's kind of hard.
TH 96 Now that has a little tag on it, doesn't it. I could see you sort of (gesture). CL
96 Yeah, yeah.
TH 97 See, just explore that feeling a little bit.
CL 97 Well, I always have to be right or letting someone else be right [TH Mhm]
um, gives up some of my control [TH Mm] of a situation. [TH Mhm] It means that
maybe I'm not the one that's responsible. [TH Mhm] Maybe it means I get some
freedom [TH Mm] which I actually do want sometimes.
TH 98 Sometimes.
CL 98 Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of nice when I do it. [TH Yeah] When I admit
okay you were right and I was wrong. But it, it staggers out, it doesn't come out real
smooth. [TH Yeah] It doesn't come out with a smile. It's like okay, all right, all right.
But it is getting better. [TH Mhm] But, it is, it's kind of tough. TH 99 Yeah.
CL 99 It's kind of tough, but I make a mistake, hm, life goes on. It doesn't stop. TH
100 Nope.
CL 100 It might mean things get prolonged a bit or [TH Mhm] I have to think a little
bit more about something, [TH Mhm] but I'm not going to give up. That's something
I don't do.
TH 101 Yeah, you don't do that.
CL 101 No. Mm, I complain maybe in the process of facing that mistake, but I've
never given up on something.
TH 102 When you say that you're quite sure.

so different. She is not competitive at all, and I am. But I think that comes from my
family. With four brothers and sisters and always competing to get your point across
and say what you want to say. We're all headstrong. [TH Yeah] It comes a lot from
that. [TH Uh huh] When I am competitive, I push myself [TH Mhm] to work the
very hardest that I can and then I do exactly what I want to do. [TH Mhm] I see the
end result, [TH I see] and I like it.
TH 105 When you talk about being competitive, there's a, a little spark comes into
you.
CL 105 Yeah. 'Cause I'm good when I'm competitive. I mean there are things I'm
really good at, and I know it's all because I worked at it. [TH Mhm] And I like that.
[TH Mhm] I just started playing tennis again. [TH Uh huh] I played for years and
then I had kids. And then, naturally, you stop because you have to stay with them,
you don't have money, and then I kind of lost interest in it, I think. And I started
back Thanksgiving. And I'm good. I'm good now. I like it. [TH Ahh] I
feel comfortable with it. I'm better now than I was 12 years ago, [TH Ahh] but I'm
working at it. And I know exactly what I want to do with it. [TH Mhm] And it's got
a certain spot in my life, yeah
TH 106 There's that sureness.
CL 106 I know exactly what I want from [TH Mhm] tennis in my life. Whereas,
before I didn't. I think that's why I kind of, I think I kind of backed out of it because
of that. [TH Mhm] Um, but now, you know, I know exactly what I want. TH 107
Mhm. I'm reflecting that you called yourself stubborn. But normally it's having an
idea of what you want to do and going for it and staying through it. [CL Yeah] It isn't
just stubborn, it's . . .
certain things in my life.
TH 109 Mhm. Like what?
CL 109 I wanted to get married. [TH Mhm] That's a big joke, now I'm getting
divorced, but that's okay. That's all right. I did it, [TH You did it] that was okay. I
wanted to have kids. I wanted to have a job that I liked going to at least three days
out of five. [TH Mhm] I wanted to make enough money to be comfortable. Um, I
wanted to be healthy enough to be able to do anything. Like if you say, let's go climb
a mountain tomorrow, I want to be healthy enough to make ita third of the way up.
Not all the way, [TH Okay] because I know you can't, don't do that, but healthy
enough to do, to not have any limitations. With anything that you want to do. [TH
Uh huh] And I've pretty much have done those things.
TH 110 Sounds like you checked them off. CL 110 Yeah.
TH 111 What's ahead? What do you want to do now? CL 111 Oh man. Now you
know . . .
TH 112 Oh man, huh?
CL 112 I haven't made that list yet. I haven't, um . . . TH 113 See what's
percolating in there.
CL 113 Yeah. What do I want to do now? Um, hm, okay, mom is the first thing that
comes into my head. I want to have, well, I want to be a better mom, okay. That's the
goal. [TH Mhm] Especially since . . .
TH 114 We've come back to that theme a couple times.
CL 114 Okay, I want to be a better mom. [TH Okay] Um, I want to continue being
close to my family, spending time with them, and doing things with them. TH 115
Who's your family?
CL 115 My mom, my dad, my sister and two brothers, a niece. Yeah. Those are my
immediate family.
TH 116 I got you.
CL 116 Yeah. Um, I want to continue to give in my friendship with my girlfriend,
actually with a couple of my girlfriends. [TH Mhm] I want to do more for them,
because they've done a lot for me. [TH Ah huh] And I want to sort of be there for
them. [TH Yeah] So that means I got to get other things of my life straight so that
when they need me I can go right there and be okay for them. [TH Mhm] Um. There
is a possibility that I might go on to get my Ph.D., but I don't know. [TH Mhm] I
don't know about that. But that's sort of there. My mom probably wants me to do it
more than I want to do it. [TH Ahh] And I don't know, I might.
TH 117 What happened, you just (gesture).

CL 134 Well, I'm not going to beat myself up about it, [TH Mhm] 'cause I am
CL 117 I was thinking well, my job is okay. I'm a pretty good teacher. I could
probably get better at that year by year. Um, I thought about a relationship. Like
getting involved with a man again is like, well, I don't want to make the same
mistake I did before, um.
TH 118 Sort of grope?
CL 118 Yeah. Probably a goal with that would be to communicate better. [TH
Mhm] Definitely communicate better in a relationship. [TH Mhm] To talk openly
about how I feel. Not to hold back, not worry about saying something, they're not
going to like or say something they disagree with.
TH 119 Mhm. Can you do that? CL 119 Yes. I can.
TH 120 Mhm. You, you paused a minute to really consider. [CL Mhm] Can you say
anything about what happened in that minute when you were considering? What did
you, what went through . . .
CL 120 Well, I thought, I've accomplished other things in my life. I should be able
to do this. [TH Mhm] That's . . . it's not something that's impossible, [TH Mhm] so
that the hesitation was I should be able to do this. I know I've done it in
the past. It still involves another person and how they're going to respond. So
that's why it's like well, I could do it, but I don't know if the other person can. [TH
Mhm] And that goes into you can only contribute so much to a relationship. You can
only give yourself. [TH Mhm] You can't really expect the other person, you can't
change the other person. You've got to go into it accepting the person as they are,
[TH Mhm] and hopefully, you will be able to work that out. [TH Mmm] But
communication is definitely something that I have to do. I have to be selfish. That's a
goal. Thats the goal. Now that's a big one.
TH 121 That is.
CL 121 That's probably more so than all of them. TH 122 Say more about what
that means.
CL 122 I need to put myself first. [TH Mhm] I need to put myself first even before
my kids. [TH Mmm] Because there were times when I didn't. And I lost myself a
little bit when I did that. Um, being selfish does not mean I can't be a good mother.
TH 123 No.
CL 123 Or a good friend, [TH Mhm] or a good family member. [TH Mhm] I
thought it was though. [TH Mmm] Which is why I wasn't selfish. Which is why I
gave and gave and allowed things to happen. [TH Mhm] Then I woke up and said I
do this.
TH 124 What would be an example, where that happened?
CL 124 Oh, well, okay, if say, like my girlfriend and I go out, [TH All right] and I
always pay. Sometimes I can say no, I don't want to pay. [TH Mhm] I couldn't do
that before. I could do it now. I could do it now.
TH 125 What's different?
CL 125 Well, first thing, I got to watch my money now because I have to take care
of the two boys without my husband. [TH Mhm] So that is the driving force.
[TH Okay] But also it, I can do it because I know that I have a right to say that. [TH
Mhm] That it's okay for me.
TH 126 Didn't you know that before?
CL 126 Way back here. [TH Mhm] It wasn't up front. [TH Mhm] No. TH 127
What was up front?
CL 127 Doing whatever it takes to please people.
TH 128 Do whatever it takes to please people. Wow. CL 128 And not disappoint
them.
TH 129 Mmm.
CL 129 Yeah. That's a big thing. TH 130 That is a big one.
CL 130 Real big. And that's the one I've got to, that's the first, that's the goal to
think about myself.
TH 131 So that's what you call selfish, if you don't do whatever it takes to please
people, that's selfish?
CL 131 If I don't please, yeah. If people don't like me. Yeah, mhm. It has to do with
I want people to like me. [TH Mhm] I want you to like me and you don't even know
me. I don't want you to not like me. I don't even know who you are. TH 132 I
know.
CL 132 But that's there, [TH Yeah] that's there. Like being perfect. TH 133 Can
you give up that? You've been doing that a while.
CL 133 It's going to be hard. I've been doing it for 37 years, well maybe not quite
that long, but, yeah, long time. I'll slip up. I slipped up lately, you know, a couple of
times doing it, but . . .
TH 134 Now there's where the question, when you slipped up, how are you going
to be with yourself?

going to say, ah, you know, that's, that's how you are. Okay. Next time, let's do this
instead, so that, yeah, no, I'm not going to beat myself.
TH 135 Can you, can you really do that? Can you . . . CL 135 I want to do it.
TH 136 I know you do.
CL 136 And because I'm determined to do it, [TH Mhm] yeah. Can I do it
immediately? No. [TH No] But I think in a few years I will be able to. [TH Mhm]
Yeah.
TH 137 You've got to be patient with yourself in between. CL 137 Yeah.
TH 138 That's been hard.
CL 138 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to be patient. I'm patient probably with a lot of
things but me. Yeah, yeah.
TH 139 You're kind of recognizing that right now. What came with that?
CL 139 Oh, well, I thought about being patient with the kids, for the boys. But I
am patient with them. But then myself, I'm not patient with [TH There you are] my,
my job. You know, I've got to get things done, or don't put it off. Do it now. Um,
with relationships, oh, it's got to be just right now or forget it, and you've got to be a
little flexible. Um, I'm thinking it's like, you don't agree. After watching
like a television program, [TH Mhm, mhm] walk away and think about it. You don't
have to agree at that moment. [TH Mhm] You don't have to convince that person at
that moment. You may never agree, and that's okay. [TH Yeah] That's, I got, that's,
I've got to work on, I have to work on that. And that's just being patient or
understanding that everybody is entitled to their own thought and . . .
CL 141 Yeah, hey, I didn't think about that. That's pretty good. To really put
me first. Yeah. I like doing that. I really do. When I do put myself first, boy I feel
really good. [TH Mhm] I can tackle anything. [TH Mhm] I mean I can tackle kids
turning in assignments late at school, coming up with five million excuses. I can take
my kids bickering with each other. When I feel good about me, it's like okay, no big
problem. No, I've got patience, flexible, and I think about instances where I did that.
Where I put myself first, and I remember how I felt with that, and the,
the problems that happened right after that - it's a piece of cake. [TH Ah huh] Why
can't I remember that all the time. I don't know.
TH 142 Let's slow down. Why can't I remember that all the time. That's not just
your question. Stay with that question inside you.
CL 142 Well, I've got some patterns that I've developed over a long period of time.
[TH Mhm] And it's going to take some time to totally break out of them.
[TH Mhm] I wonder if I'll even ever really be able to totally break free. I still think
there will be a little bit there, but it won't be predominant. [TH Mhm] It won't be
as predominant. Um . . .
TH 143 Most of these things aren't all or none.
CL 143 Yeah. I'm learning that. [TH Yeah] There's a big area in the middle. Very
big area in the middle [TH Right] that most things fall into.
TH 144 Well, as a teacher, you know about learning curves. They go like this. They
don't go zoom.
CL 144 I'm finding that if I use my teaching strategies with my personal life, I'm a
lot happier. [TH Mhm] It works out pretty good. It's like, because I do think that. I
take into consideration they're kids, they make mistakes, things happen. I take that
into consideration for everybody but me.
TH 145 There you go. Now it's time for you.
CL 145 Yeah.
TH
146
CL
146
TH
147
CL
147
TH
148
CL
148
I enjoy it.
TH
149
CL
149
really take
a checklist, but . . .

Our time's just about up. Anything you want to say?

Gosh, it goes fast.
Anything you'd like to say to me?
Thank you.
You're welcome, Ma'am.
Thank you because it, I needed to self reflect, [TH Mhm] and
Make time for Gina.
Yeah, to sort of just chill. Just sit back and think, add up, not

TH 150 No, more just like it turned out tonight. Just take, take time to listen.
CL 150 Appreciate yourself. Yeah, to listen to myself, too. Because sometimes I do
shut myself up. I do.
TH 151 There go those faces.
CL 151 I know, I know. (laughter)

TH 152 That's all right. Maybe sometimes you ought to do it looking in the mirror.
CL 152 I should, I should, because everybody sees them and I don't even know I'm
doing it. Yeah. But no, I will reflect. [TH Good] That will be good. Thank you.

TH 153 You're welcome, and very good fortune to you

. CL 153 Thank you, thank you very much.

1
3

Insight:
It was evident throughout the two therapies in Existential therapy the emphasis of
the importance of self- awareness and how responsible we are upon choosing our destiny
as free beings. Based on the first transcript regarding the case of Betty, a retired
policewoman who is planning to change her profession, it was clear how the her therapist
enlightened Betty that shes on the right track on finding meaning in her life. In my
opinion, the touch of philosophy in existential therapy is applicable in any situations
specifically for those who are feeling that their lives as meaningless.

References
STUDY GUIDE AND INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT TO ACCOMPANY VIDEO TAPE PSYCHOTHERAPY WITH THE EXPERTS FEATURING JAMES BUGENTAL- Jon Carlson & Diane Kjos

RELATIONAL STRATEGIES: TWO APPROACHES TO ADLERIAN BRIEF THERAPY- James Robert Bitter
\