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Robbins-Madanes Training

Understanding teen intervention Ocean 2

Film Transcript
Cloe Cloe Madanes
Tony Anthony Robbins
Barbra
Ocean
Albert

Cloe:

When a teen is in distress, what is the cause? What can parents do differently to
create rapid change in their teens behavior? How much do family dynamics
affect the teens behavior even one who is dedicated to doing well? You are about
to see. In the previous film we met Ocean who described the conflict with her
parents that led her to run away from home and to start cutting her legs. Tony led
Ocean to understand the situation with her parents more clearly and led her to a
more stable family relationship. A few weeks later, Tony and I visited with Ocean
and her parents at a relatives home. As you will see, Ocean had taken the first
important step towards improvement with no drug use, cutting or running away
and she had began to create some positive changes in the family. Now Tony and I
need to understand the larger patterns in Oceans family environment to ensure
the continued happiness of everyone involved. Tony and I met with Ocean and
her parents in their family home near Oceans house.
Have you seen changes in Ocean?

Barbra:

Oh shes been phenomenal. Shes been great since she got home. Shes
exceptionally, for me its I find her like very easy to approach, very easy to talk to
and I know that I have changed a lot too since ocean has come home. My role as
far as having changed. I have changed as far as; I know that I am a fanatic as far
as telling Ocean to do this and to do that and to worry about her room, and to
worry about the lights of her shower

Cloe:

Oh great.

Barbra:

To worry about everything.

Cloe:

I suspected.

Barbra:

Totally all the way, whether shes got a cold or whether she doesnt have a cold
and like everything, what time she goes to bed, everything and now since she got
home, all I am trying to do and I think I am doing a pretty good job just to love
and to show her that I love her and let Ocean be Ocean.

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Cloe:

Its a good sign that her mother has realized that perhaps she was too controlling
or demanding and is now focusing on love.

Barbra:

Shes been great since she got home, shes open, she seems free, she seems
peaceful, yeah, approachable is a good word.

Cloe:

Thats great. And who [Inaudible 0:02:40]

Albert:

I have seen lots of light, lots of flamboyant, carefree, maybe a bit cautious its all
there is.

Cloe:

What do you mean cautious?

Albert:

Well she had, over Christmas Eve, she had some I guess breakings of her past
that she was trying to deal with as far as her mom goes like her biological mom
and she had done some of that stuff that shes been holding onto I guess all that
writing that she had put together and we went through that process Christmas
Eve and I thought it was very brave for her that, like her life there is two extremes
as one side and there is this side right and they are so opposite, there is so much
dark one direction, there is so much light the other direction

Cloe:

Oceans biological mother had been a drug addict for most of her life. The father
is referring to the difference between the biological mothers environment, the
dark side and this familys environment, the light side.

Albert:

But

Barbra:

But I think through it all Ocean was able to be herself too and that is the first
time Ive seen Ocean be herself around her mother in that situation. Do you
know what I mean? She wasnt that you know, she wasnt that everything is ok
and feeling and stuff. Ocean was herself and Ocean was hurt through it and
Ocean was able to portray that to her mom. Which I thought

Cloe:

So you saw your mother?

Ocean: Yes
Cloe:

Oh I didnt know that, she came here?

Barbra:

Well she was in town and so they met up, we met up with her at Oceans cousins
place

Ocean: See the baby

Albert: Yeah they just had a baby
Barbra:

So she wanted to take a little gift to the baby and to see her cousins and stuff,
right?

Albert: Yeah
Barbra:

Ocean is very dedicated to her family so

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Cloe:

So what happened? How was it with your mum?

Ocean:

It was good because now I have closure in the situation like I understand it,
because I was like should I talk to her because maybe it will help or should I just
continue and do like tough love kind of thing, like dismiss her and you know she
wanted a different kind of love and through seeing her and who she is, well now I
know like, I can't help her [Inaudible 0:05: 10] like she is on her own path, so
that is how its going to go.

Cloe:

We talked about this with Ocean about how she has been all her life trying to help
her mother and actually not talking to her mother was not rejecting her. It was
just a different way of trying to help and so I was concerned about, Ocean you are
a little girl still, you are not supposed to be the helper of your mother, adults help
each other. You know she has family, she has friends, it s not up to you

Barbra:

It about her own emotional state and she tries when we are arguing, she tries to
help either me or him or even just calling [Inaudible 0:05:52] this morning, she is
rubbing my back to make me feel better and I love her and appreciate her but
we've, since Ocean's come to our house, nearly 5 years ago now or 4 years ago? 4
years ago, you know we've told her Ocean please you are the child now, let us fix
stuff, let us, you know all her friends swarm up to Ocean because Ocean likes to
fix everybody and fix all the situations right?

Cloe:

That 's how [Inaudible 0:06:18] One cannot under estimate the protectiveness
that children have towards their children. In the past, Ocean has always trying to
be the helper to her mother to the point that she was loosing her own identity and
direction in life. It is a good sign that she now seems to be letting go of that role.
Now the father began talking about the event that Ocean had shared with us
previously. When he took Ocean home from a party that she did not want to
leave.

Albert:

For me, I am one of the people that [Inaudible 0:06:59] and gives and so on and
so on, so I mean there are times that I have asked her to change, when I last
heard the change when I reflect and say I am going to make some changes myself,
right? One of the big things that I understood that she came back and we were
talking about is, she had wanted to go somewhere and Barbara went to pick her
and the day was you are not going to stay there and when she came back, Barbra
will say to her, you should do something, you should do something, like somehow
you should talk to us and I went from being a passive, caring, Albert [Inaudible
0:07:30] and if you dont like this, maybe you should leave but I was trying to be
somebody that Im not and

Cloe:

Well, I understand that, we all say

Albert:

It took away that safety net that was always there. That [Inaudible 0:07:50] I was
trying to please everybody.

Cloe:

The father became tearful as he realized his terrible mistake. He should not have
suggested that Ocean should leave home if she didnt like the parents rules. He
explains how he is caught between the love of his wife and his desire to please her
and his love for Ocean and his wish to do the right thing by her. This is a

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common situation, where one parent is much more lenient that the other. This
situation is even more aggravated when one of the parent is a step-parent. The
father also realizes that by suggesting that Ocean could leave the home, he was
destroying her most basic sense of certainty and security. Ocean had already had
to leave the mother, now she was facing the possibility of her father.
Albert:

I dont know how [Inaudible 0:08:50] and I am sorry because I became and I
think as individuals we should be individuals; we shouldnt try to do things that
are against our grain that makes us, especially when it comes to our identity

Cloe:

When a parent makes a mistake it is important to apologize, the apology is

healing because it eliminates confusion and confirms for the child the difference
between right and wrong.

Albert:

I always try to reach out and help her so many times my hands have slapped me
[Inaudible 0:09:25] from people that didnt care about themselves didnt
understand how much I care about ocean right? You know walk to school at 7 or
8 years old, 7 years old, walking 2 miles one day and just one day Im on my way
to work and I see this kid and I realize, its my kid and I stopped and she is like,
everything is fine Dad, everything is ok, her food is got hair in it and its like that
situation went on for 4 years, I could never do that at her age [Inaudible 0:09:53]

Cloe:

She told me about all of that

Albert:

To have her now and to have all these stuff happen in our lives so fast, so quick
and so much, its just like it blew me away, its like I mean

Cloe:

Let me tell you something that I want to tell that you have to be very careful.
Sometimes our children relate more to what we say than what we actually do. So
you have to be very careful about what you say you are going to do and then you
dont do because Ocean has a tendency to fend for herself and so you came into
the room and told her and maybe you wanted to live just live, so she decided to
run away, you really didnt mean that

Albert:

No of course not

Cloe:

Yeah I bet,

Albert:

This was two month before [Overlapping 0:10:46]

Cloe:

This is important, you talked about taking a bat to her boyfriend?

Albert:

Oh yeah

Cloe:

She wanted to take the bat to school to beat up another boy.

Albert:

Yeah, yeah

Cloe:

You actually didnt beat anybody with the bat but she was ready to talk about just
like she was [Inaudible 0:11:09] tremendous to stop. So I know you dont do
those things as an example but be careful about what you say, you understand
what I mean?

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Albert:

Yeah

Cloe:

You do?

Ocean:

Yeah, thanks

Cloe:

[Inaudible 0:11:27] like that and you want to be like him and so but you have to
be very selective, he talks a tough talk but he doesnt do those things.

Cloe:

As a parent, it is easy to forget that everything you do and say, serves as a

powerful example for your child. Who may take your word, more literally than
you mean them. In case this father made ultimatums and threats, and Ocean
ended up making those threats real. Now take a moment to ask yourself, as a
parent do you ever make punishments or consequences that are confusing or they
take away your child your basic certainties about relationships? Every child
needs to have certain essentials they can count on no matter what, even if they
misbehave. Such as love, their own belongings, their education, there future and
their place in the family. If you begin to take away these essentials, the child can
become confused and make bad decisions. Now Tony and I go back to talking
about the difference about what the father says and what he actually does.
What he actually does

Tony:

He is a lover and he does [Inaudible 0:12:42]

Barbra:

But when you said fear and when he is scared he

Cloe:

He talks of that, yeah.

Albert:

Ive talked like I have been like vicious person its like the ultimate choice. I mean
I dont want have to make that choice but Ill verbalize it, its like okay like I dont
want to ever show you this stuff, right but please understand it like when I was
talking say that I will break your feet, you cant run away, you cant walk and I was
prepared in my mind, I was actually thinking that thats how scared I was, I was
like whatever I have to do Im going to do it [Inaudible 0:13:20] step likely
enough maybe to break a toe or something but the same way I was seriously
considering that I was going to have to hurt this childs feet so that she couldnt
run and I mean I didnt

Cloe:

It would be easier to just lock her up in her room.

Albert:

Well we tried that too.

Cloe:

One moment the father says maybe you should leave and soon after he is thinking
of breaking her feet to prevent Ocean from leaving. When the father alternates
between these extremes, it is no wonder that Ocean is confused about whats
right and whats wrong and then stop hurting herself. What needs to change here
is fathers example for Ocean. When people have pasts involving violence or
drugs or alcohol abuse or when they have been in a war, they often struggle with
memories of terrible things they had done long ago and this affects their behavior
with their children. In the fathers case when communicating with his daughter,

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his focus easily drifts to violence and thinking. As s result, his communication
with his daughter becomes violent. As a parent it is very important that you
separate from mistakes you made in the past and set powerful standards for the
way you communicate with your child today.
Now take a moment to ask yourself when you get angry with your child, what do
you say? Do your words interrupt their basic sense of certainty in connection with
you? If you do scare your children, do you later apologize so that they understand
which behaviors are right and which are wrong. Now lets return to Oceans
family. As a father explains what triggered him on that night to communicate the
way he did to Ocean.
Albert:

What Id say, you know the greatest thing about this is being able to sit down and
be quite honest with myself about what Ive done and who I am and deal with it
because I want to learn from this. I never want to go through that. Well because
that particular day like I said I was trying to be, I was trying in my heart, I was
trying to say okay I will show Barbra just how tough I can be and I will show
Ocean

Barbra:

Cause I always say he is not tough enough.

Albert:

I will show Ocean a side of me that shes never seen before, right and I thought
well okay if you want to go there so badly and you would like to move in then it
just kept escalating and worse for Ocean, I guess that was one of the safety

Cloe:

One of the biggest challenges for parents is to assert the authority in a firm loving
way without violence. In this case, the father had been trying to demonstrate his
authority as a father but in fact he violated Oceans sense of certainty of being his
daughter. Now I needed to address one of the sources of problems in this family.
The mother and the father have different standards for how much they should
monitor and criticize Oceans choices. I am going to suggest a way that the
parents can streamline their priorities for Ocean so that everyone can feel less
stressed about Oceans behavior.
So in relation to that, there is one thing that I wanted to do to help you today
here. That is Id like you to think of what are the three most important issues in
relation Ocean? Maybe four but better even than just three, the three things that
are necessary for you to feel confident that Ocean is alright and just three. They
must be important so that we can get a way from her trying to deal with too much
at the same time and because a kid cant grow up like that, it is too much, its too
overwhelming.
Sometimes parents correct a young person in too many ways and expect too
much in too many areas. The child can experience this not only as overwhelming
but as a character attack where her very identity is threatened.
When a child has over-reacted in a dangerous way to her parents communication
as the case here, it is important to limit the parents through 3 or 4 most
important baseline requirements that they will ask of Ocean. These are the
baseline requirements for Ocean to stay safe and out of trouble so that the family
can avoid the type of problems that they have just been having.

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I will ask the parents to agree with each other on these three or four important
requirements and in this way I will guide them to what where they will be united
in deciding on how to deal with Ocean instead of divided and in disagreement
that only exacerbates Oceans confusion.
Barbra:

I know I have a big part to play, I take responsibility for that. Hes been on me for
even like, usually in the last, probably six months or eight months since Ocean
went to high school, get off my back. Like I mean I look at what is important and
what is not important today, and I say that before and I didnt, do you know what
I mean? Like there is always so much stuff, like I mean, Ill catch myself before I
say it and say like, that is not important because this is happening because of me.
I love her to death

Cloe:

Its a mother reflect [Overlapping][18:52]

Barbra:

Always, always and I mean, and its more when I get tired or I am hurting or I am
feeling something then I take it over emotion, you know big time. I mean I see
that so Ive worked hard on that a lot last couple of weeks since shes gotten
home.

Cloe:

What are the most important issues?

Barbra:

We were talking about that the other day and I mean I came up with a couple

Albert:

One was: stay at home and do your homework, its important and that is one of
them. The other one was, we should dialogue, at least talk for half an hour, the
other one I suggested is that we all hold hands and say, like Ocean may probably
say a quick prayer of some sort and I guess you had said four, I guess the fourth
will be stay physically fit. Because I think if you are physically fit, spiritually
connected and you got dialogue as a family, I mean

Cloe:

Okay, all those things said, just give him what the last few months have been,
what are the most important issues that you wanted I would think for example;
not doing things that are illegal, would you consider that that is primary
important, you dont want her to go to jail

Albert:

We wouldnt condone alcohol in privacy

Barbra:

No of course and I mean honesty is huge and I mean for Ocean to be open and
honest with us, whatever is going on in her life

Cloe:

To the family. Okay but the illegal part is important because as we were talking, I
kept, because I work in institutions for teenagers like you, I know what they are
like. I kept imagining you in one of those places, it comes a point when even the
fairy godmother here couldnt get you out of it.
I am referring to Sage, Tonys wife as Oceans fairy mother.
Not being in trouble with the law is really important.

Tony:

That doesnt come across as a surprise one because I think about all that stuff too
but my way of thinking was okay. If I look after the spiritual stuff and I keep you,

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if you can pray everyday and dialogue for half an hour a day and weve been
through what weve been through, I just felt like, everybody is the law, its going to
be one of the things you go by because you want to be clear headed, you want to
be AWAL [Inaudible 0:21:32] to be clear-headed enough because you can focus
on various things that maybe important to you
Cloe:

So how can I call this? [Overlapping 0:21:44] Then the other things are the
means to get by, [Inaudible 0:21:50] so thats good. There was another thing that
you said, was honesty that combines with being able to go through the bible
[Inaudible 0:22:00] everyday and fifteen minutes to tell you what she has been
up to, what she is doing, communication part.

Barbra:

Big time. That is so important, even yesterday when she got home from the mall,
Oceans gotten in to a habit, you know, go to her room and closes the door and we
dont see her for an hour or two or whatever whenever she comes home and that
started when she started, you know smoking pot or whatever, coming home long
after school. Yesterday when I was changing Jacobs [Inaudible 0:22:28] bolted
right past us and I said No! Stop! Stop! Come and show me what youve got
right? Come and show me what you got to swing around that you know, going
into her room and closing the door. I mean I would like to take the bolt off for a
week so I can see her [Overlapping 0:22:50]

Barbra:

So what would be a good time to have the [Overlapping 0:22:50]

I love supper time.

Cloe:

We had the honesty and [Inaudible 0:23:00] and we had not doing things that
are really, what the third one?

Albert:

I really for a physical being Im definitely concerned about how I would want you
to stay on top of that as far as gym goes and exercise and stuff goes.

Cloe:

Take care of her values.

Barbra:

Take care of her self

Albert:

And we need [Overlapping 0:23:20]

Barbra:

She wants to people over and wants to have friends over and stuff and there came
a time even before all this happened Michael and Cody then there was Samantha
and then there was Miranda and there was a whole group of people and everyday
there was somebody else coming and Ocean stopped working out, she stopped
communicating with me like after school. Sometimes we watched Dr. Phil or
Oprah together and played with Jacob like all that stuff stopped and she was
totally consumed with her friends and I think its really important even for me as
individuals in the world is to take time off for ourselves. Sometimes Ocean forgets
to do that so we have to train them so okay now its stopped.

Tony:

So what you are saying is relationship with her friends is going to be narrowed
down.

Barbra:

Its got to be balanced for her, Ocean needs time to take care of [Overlapping
0:24:14].

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Albert:

Monday to Friday you are going to have school, you are going to have

Barbra:

I dont agree with that. What you are saying, I dont agree with that at all.

Cloe:

Well explain to me.

Barbra:

Well he is saying Monday to Friday no friends in her life. School, family and
Ocean time. I dont agree with that.

Cloe:

This is what I mean that we have to agree on. Because if you agreed

Barbra:

We tried that, remember we tried that and I said I didnt think that was fair. Like
Ocean is going to school and Ocean needs friends in her life so then I start, okay
she goes to gym Monday and Wednesdays, so she has to school and then she has
showers and stuff so on Tuesday and Thursdays maybe if it works into her
schedule and there is nothing else going on, she can have someone over
[Overlapping 0:24:57]

Cloe:

If we have three things, if you want to [Inaudible 0:25:01] one of those three
things then we can make but if the schedule is not crucial and important, you are
just going to let her make her own schedule. So thats basically what you have to
decide. Is this of foremost importance? Maybe it is. It is up to you.

Barbra:

I think it is.

Ocean:

I think what they are trying to say is important to them as like the third most
thing me being like caring towards myself like physically or health wise or
emotionally or whatever, taking care of myself and taking time out to do so and
so during, are you okay and are you okay and forgetting

Tony:

I want you to be accountable for all your decisions. Okay we are going to give you
a format but I want you to be able to make the decision whether you are going to
do my share of the night, sorry you cant call him because I dont have [Inaudible
0:25:50] and be excited about care, or you cant call me now because I got
homework, sorry you cant call right now because this is when we are going to
have our supper, we are going to have our conversation

Barbra:

To do things that [Overlapping 0:26:04]

Tony:

And make sure that your friends do not get above your rules or guidelines.

Cloe:

[Inaudible 0:26:11] you want her to be on a regular exercise program, you want
her to

Barbra:

Well she goes to the gym Mondays and Wednesdays and thats important she
does that.

Cloe:

And not maybe not making Monday to Friday then not making it everyday

Albert:

Its only Monday and Wednesday

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Barbra:

No shes talking about her friends.

Albert:

Oh Im sorry.

Barbra:

Its when it fits like

Albert:

Just when it fits

Barbra:

I mean Ocean can approach us and if we feel because we are her parents, if we
feel that it is not appropriate, its not a good day, then Ocean needs to learn to
accept that and say okay you guys and carry on with her day.

Cloe:

Lets write down first what we already agreed on. We agreed on honesty, open
communication

Albert:

Prayer

Cloe:

And prayer. We agreed on not doing anything that is likely to [Inaudible 0:27:22]
and that includes alcohol, any type of drug; marijuana. Eating fruits, any kind of
behavior, like violent behavior okay. So we are in agreement. What we are not in
agreement is the point of taking care of herself exactly what that entails, what
Dad you are saying that you would prefer to have a regular schedule that is the
same. Barbara is saying she would prefer to have flexibility. The two of you
would have to agree on this.
Notice that I constantly insisted that the parents agree. The parents agreement
with each other there is more important than the content of what they agree on.
Also they must both commit to none negotiation or even mentioning anything
other than the three or four items that have been agreed on.

Albert:
Cloe:

Okay, lets just try, let me just try to clarify what Im trying to say
[Overlapping: 0:28:17]

Albert:

So 12:00, so anyway I should call your friend [Inaudible 28:24] to 1.30. Can I go
to my friends? Okay you can go to your friends. How long can I stay at the mall
and I would say stay at mall up to five oclock, I will meet you at the food court.
Okay when I get phone calls from I want to stay later and she calls me and says 6
I would come by and pick you about 6 and I go and pick her up. Every time these
decisions are made, its the end, its final when I go to pick her up, she says that,
her next request was, can I go to my friends place and spend the night. Well the
reason I was just [Overlapping 29:02]

Barbra:

Well she is a child and wants to

Albert:

I understand, let me finish please. Anyway, now to me its like okay, you know
very well to me the biggest was the ifs. If you cant handle that conversation
with your friends then you can ask me, if you are not sure your friend can fit in
the, [Inaudible 0:29:28] please ask me. What it does to me is it opens up
dialogue between you and her which you going to have babies to look after, you
know you are going to have [Inaudible 0:29:32] on the plate

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Barbra:

But its a Yes or No sweetheart, its not a big deal

Albert:

These decisions, personally I dont feel like she can make these decisions without
causing her some problem of some sort.

Barbra:

Okay, that is what you are trying to say. You hear what he said, that is what is
trying to say. We have to come up, we are going to fix that, we are going to talk
about

Ocean:

What [Inaudible 0:30:01]

Barbra:

The answers we going to get

Albert:

Well the answers

Barbra:

All these questions that you asked that you are going to accept and you are going
to get hurt that, no you cant go to the mall till 1:30, no you cant go here, no you
cant go to [Inaudible 0:30:13] whatever dad or Barbs

Cloe:

Let me help you with this. I think it is important to understand that when Ocean
says can I stay until 6:00 or can I go to a friends house, she is asking you to
understand her situation. So I think it would be very good instead of just saying
no, it is important to say why.

Barbra:

Of course, right.

Cloe:

Explain to me why you want to do that.

Albert:

I did that.

Cloe:

Let me give you an example, the night at the Halloween party that caused this
whole turmoil, she had a special situation that she would really would have
wanted you to understand which was that all her friends were fighting with each
other then at 9:30 they had just made out so that it didnt begin [Overlapping
0:30:35].

Barbra:

But Cloe the same with the Halloween party I mean I understand that but the
thing with the Halloween party which had been going on for three nights prior to
the Halloween party. So we told her for two days before the party please dont ask
if you can spend the night [Overlapping 0:31:12]

Cloe:

Let me finish my thought.

Barbra:

She needs to understand that what we say is whats going to happen not thats
right.

Cloe:

Im not saying no to that but what I am saying is if she had a chance to explain
then say no and let her explain her situation and then if still you have

Barbra:

But Ocean has to learn accept that because I feel that she doesnt for me.

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Tony:

She wont, if you just let her explain but you dont hear her, it wont make any
difference. She will suffer for her agenda.

Cloe:

Thats what I mean here.

Tony emphasizes the importance of truly understanding. If the parents dont take
the time of understand Oceans needs and requests, then Ocean will feel rejected
by the decisions they make. If Ocean feels rejected, she will not be able to give the
parents the respect and the authority they want. Barbie has been raising her voice
and speaking over me because she feels that her rules for Ocean are being
challenged.

Ocean:

The thing like you just said here if you can let me explain I dont feel your like, I
feel like you are saying you are okay. She can talk but the answer is still no.

Barbra:

Right, of course not.

Cloe:

Dont make the decision hit her.

Barbra:

No before. [Overlapping 0:32:33]

Albert:

And even important even though we said no three days before that, [Overlapping
0:32:36]

Barbra:

And theres lots of times

Albert:

Should have been flexible and should have been yes. That would have been my
take on that.

Barbra:

What to stay at the party?

Albert:

Three days before that you dont understand I said no you dont do this you dont
do that and then later on Halloween night it was like no you [Inaudible 0:32:50]
three days before that but that particular situation I wanted to be flexible and say
yes you can stay because I would have understood that, how much important it
was to her.

Barbra:

You would?

Cloe:

You didnt say that.

Albert:

I told her.

Barbra:

Did you?

Albert:

Yes.

Cloe:

Now we see one of the sources of the conflict of Halloween night. The father, the
mother and Ocean were in a triangle that prevented them from hearing each
others real needs. In the interest of her parental authority, Barbie had made a
firm decision not to let Ocean stay later at the party. The father would have
considered letting Ocean stay but Barbie had implicitly asked him to support her

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decision and her authority. The father was now in the middle position. Hearing
opposite demands from both sides. If he lets Ocean stay at the party, Barbie
would have taken that he was subverting her authority and siding with his
daughter against Barbie. So the father took his wife side with such force that he
was no longer hearing or understand Ocean who felt completely misunderstood
and rejected and we know what happened after that. What the family needs is an
agreement between the parents that is firm without not being rejected of Ocean
needs and which is so strong that there is no risk or fear of the daughter standing
between the parents,
So what helps when counseling the teenager is if you understand that all of her
communication
Barbra:

So I get mixed messages because I have heard make your nos be no and your yes
be yes.

Cloe:

Say that again [Overlapping 0:34:28]

Barbra:

If I have already said that you cant do that, right. Like say Ocean wants to go to a
party on Friday night. She asks me today. Today is Monday and for some reason
whether the place is at or whatever I say no sweetheart I dont think so. Then on
Thursday she approaches me and says oh well this is going to happen and this is
going to happen and even though I feel more comfortable about all of them, I am
almost saying yes because I have already said no I thought you were supposed to
stay at [Inaudible 0:34:58]

Cloe:

No, why should you stay? No people make mistakes

Barbra:

No may be no and yes may be yes as parents. Didnt they just air it last night?

Cloe:

I dont know.

Barbra:

Obviously. [Overlapping 0:35:11]

Cloe:

Listen to me for a moment first. People make mistakes and change their minds all
the time. And so if you make a mistake and you didnt have more information
then you can change.
I am challenging Barbies idea that parenting should be based on rigid rules
rather than understanding the particular child or circumstances. In the military,
rigid rules are necessary, in a family they are not. Barbie will respond by
revealing the real reason why she has been making her decisions rigid and
permanent.

Or even if you get more information you may simply [Overlapping 0:35:48]
Barbra:

I know some of my and this is going to be huge for me to say, some of my

decisions are based on, feel like I have control as a parent in this relationship. So
sometimes when I say that, I want Ocean to respect me for who I am and I dont
want to go back and say okay sweetie because there are a lot of times shes asked

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and because I have said no already, I feel like I have to stick to that for her
respect.
Cloe:

She will respect you even more if she realizes that you really understand and that
even though you love her, understand her, you still have to give her guidance and
you still have to take responsibility and you have to be able to say no to protect
her.

Barbra:

Right.

Cloe:

But you have to understand that teenagers communication a lot of the time is just
an attempt to be understood because most girls this age dont feel understood by
their parents. They really dont and whenever she says anything or makes a face
or answers back or whatever it is that she does, just stop and think for a moment.
Is there something she is trying to get us to understand? Lets listen to what it is,
lets hear her point of view and then give her guidance because unconditional love
is not enough, you have to guide her.
Barbie cries as she explains that the feeling underlying her rigid rules, is how
difficult it is to feel accepted as a step mother. I suggest that whenever Ocean
seems demanding or unreasonable, Barbie should practice understanding. This is
something that is easy to do and that will help her to feel better as a step mother.
Now take a moment to ask yourself, can you think of something that your child
does when they want to feel understood? Children are always testing their
parents to see their love and understanding. They often do this by challenging
you and watching whether you get angry or whether you will give them a loving
response. Now ask yourself when your child tests you, how can you show them in
a loving way that you are in charge and that you are taking care of them? How
can you assert your parental authority by understanding their needs? Now Ocean
will share her point of view.

Ocean:

Like I said before with the saying yes say no thing, if you do say no, you have to
give me reasons. Because you are just like no, why cause I try to understand more
view and feelings towards this like maybe like try to make some more
communication try to get it to go this way and this way. So we all understand the
situation, right as full as possible. And if you say, if I asked you if I can go
somewhere and you say no, Im like why [Overlapping 0:38:30]

Cloe:

I could say I have a bad feeling [Overlapping 0:38:33]

Barbra:

And then Ocean will come back with something else [Overlapping 0:38:38]

Cloe:

She is going to argue with you to death and she is old enough that she can talk
anybody [Overlapping 0:38:47]

Barbra:

And thats why I have said for me it is easier for him to be the no and yes guy
because it doesnt go that much between those two, absolutely

Cloe:

[Inaudible 0:39:00] are you in agreement with that or

Albert:

I dont have any problem because what I did when I went to the mall last time,
she wanted to go to her friend. So I asked her why and then I explained to her

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why it was important to me and for her that she should come home and it was
okay and then
Barbra:

They do well, I agree they do very well

Cloe:

Notice Barbie pointing out the bond of love between father and daughter. She
doesnt want to be the one to say no because she feels that as a step mother, she
doesnt have that kind of bond.
Well Barbie I want to say something and in regard to Ocean. Its not her mother
that is better than you. I think at this moment you have a baby and another on
the way, you should choose whether you want him to take this on or you want to
do it, its your choice, you have enough on your plate. Not that its, I am
suggesting that you he do what you tell him to do because you have a lot on your
plate right now. Not because I dont think that you would be perfect, of course
not.
I am empowered by Barbie to be the one to decide who deals with Ocean
emphasizing Barbies confidence and the fact that she is dealing with so much
right now

Cloe:

Ocean values connection with her family so when someone makes a decision, she
wants to understand the reasoning and the emotions behind the decision. Now
Tony will give the family his perspective on their communication styles.

Tony:

The first thing I want to tell you is [Inaudible 0.41:14] when a teenager is talking,
they are not efficient. It's not efficient. They are just talking to be understood and
your job is to be a detective [Inaudible 0:41:22] with anyone [Inaudible 0:41:23].
They dont want, they tell you things implicitly not explicitly. And so you have to
become Sherlock Holmes to say what's really behind all these pieces. And they
are not expecting you, she does the same thing. You are supposed to read their
minds, you are supposed to know because they know that a woman would
understand, a woman would figure out all this implicit communication.
[Inaudible 0:41:42]. This young woman is a lot. She's bright as hell; she's
developed significance by being everybody's healer and fixer. She's done it out of
necessity with her mama you know and with you and she is driven. Second thing
is she is hardly significant because you've told her a story. You've told her a story
a million times about looking down this little baby girl and thinking what the hell
am I doing with myself and that's where you change it, she is your angel girl, its
the problem with that story. The story is great but you cant living the past story
with her. You got to see what she is today because what it does it has created for
her she cannot and does not want to be. She knows how to meld with any
environment she is smart as [Inaudible 0:42:17] she knows how to get the right
answer to the right person, whether it's me whether it's Pine Pearl whether it's
you, she knows how to do that stuff part of this is been survival instinct to her.
She said so herself we talked. Remember she said you know I was like; I'm a
chameleon she said. She knows that and it's very obvious to me it's like she got on
stage with one person and when you got on stage the second part you were you.
You know the difference, she knows like you would choose presenting and then
you know part of [Inaudible 0:42:39] you know I was fitting in and doing all stuff
to be significant and the Ocean just shows Ocean, she is just a total law. So she
has become the fix it person she has got a significance in that piece [Inaudible

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0:42:50] to that piece. But she has a little threat. The threat is my father has an
image of me and if I'm not that he will be destroyed. She is busy taking care of
you trying to be perfect and she isnt perfect. She isnt got to be perfect and
frankly if she was you would be screwed over. She needs to be able to have her
dark side and her light side. She needs to have that in ways that are acceptable
meaning that you are parents agree at a appropriate the stage of her life but she
got to be able to have that. She cant just be your little angel girl every moment
because then she has to be fake with you. And when being fake with you now I got
a real problem because now we dont have a real relationship. And now she is
losing so much trust because that's her mother, she doesnt want to be like her
mother. I just want to be in that place and yeah she is finding herself trapped into
being that to try to please you to make everything ok because when she was
telling you about that night, interesting thing was she was telling me all that stuff
and I said what does all that mean? You know what was that really about? What
did that mean, what was your father doing and everything else, and then she went
that I was bad. And there was this little smile.
Cloe:

Tony emphasizes the importance of understanding Ocean and her desire to help
others. But most importantly to understand that as long as the father continues
to hold Ocean on a pedestal as the angel that saved him she does not relate to
Ocean as a human being with her faults and her dark side.

Tony:

I'll show you the film I'll send the film. [Inaudible 0:44:18] smiling about and she
was like I dont know. So what was the smile about and she was like because you
gave her attention because she doesnt get any not matter what you do this will
roll once in desperately for her mother and father. All humans do. She didnt get
it from her mother because her mother is the selfish person at this stage of her
development she is the child so here is how she view her account. And with you
she has to the perfect person also so that you will be okay, and you can feel like
youve done a job and you havent failed, you dont go to that fear place you are
into where you are so scared that you love her so much and you dont want to fail
so much that the fear state thats all it was. Its just get the hell out of here and go
somewhere else. Go be with her, thats not what you want, thats what you are
saying out of fear like survival I will break your feet. You have to understand that
whenever you say to a woman this is not true to admit, you can say wake up, do
that stuff back and forth we can position anything we can even go toe to toe if
thats it [Inaudible 0:45:10] this conversation. I said one time you do that
[Inaudible 0:45:15] if you dont do place last window and she went hysterical. You
threw this little plate in the last window, what the hell [Inaudible 0:45:21] you
threw your plate on last window but the female physiology you and I process
things when its words, its words. Certain words can get to emotion. All words
can be processed emotionally by a woman. They feel those words; they make a
picture in their head. She pictured you smashing her feet just trying to feel how
my father, he loves me how could he do that?

Cloe:

The father needs to understand that his teenage daughter processes language in a
much more emotional way than he does as a grown man. When he says
something violent, his daughter feels it in her body and even remembers it as a
violent event. Clearly this is the case as Ocean has acted on his threats.

Tony:

so part of the job is her trying to be perfect so that you will love her. Her not
wanting to fail and needing to be, what she is looking for right now still she wants

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freedom but I think that somehow she is smart enough to know that even though
I am a teenager I can do anything I want I am smart as any adult and so forth, I
dont know about life experience and I make mistakes here she, theres a little bit
of her that still respects me for [Inaudible 0:46:27] and from you especially. It
was an excuse besides being perfect. Now you have another woman in your life.
She wants to be the woman in your life. Its not bad, she just wants to be more
and youve got another and what is interesting is I think she feels loved by Barbie
but Barbie also is coming out central. But and one of the [Inaudible 0:46:49]
because you are not. Because what happens is you can be but you are also
thinking all the time what she didnt have, what she didnt do the whole story of
that is not lining you to be present now sometimes to make decisions for what
you are right for. That is what she is saying. Shes saying you are not tough
enough on Ocean.
Cloe:

Tony refers to Barbie as command central because she has taken such a strict
leadership position with Ocean even though she is not the biological parent and
even though it puts a strain on al of her relationships. The leader in the family is
the person who sees the familys needs most clearly and takes action even when it
means being firm or being perceived as the bad guy. Tony is telling the father that
idolizing Ocean and being so afraid of hurting her; he is disempowering himself
as a father. When he doesnt do the fathers job, the mother has to step in and this
creates the triangle where the mother has to be the bad guy in both relationships
so much of the time. Instead the father has to honor his wife first and he must
take up a position of firm guidance with Ocean then both parents would be united
and would be able to handle any family problem.

Tony:

You have to honor your wife first and shes got to learn to respect that so its like
that when shes a mom. The great thing about this family is that there is magical I
see that there wasnt in my family is that mom and dad in this family are meeting,
share the blame, they come first, they come first no matter what. These kids, I
thought this kids would feel something but they dont they all feel loved.

Cloe:

Tony is referring to Sharon and Bill who are Tonys in laws and Barbies adoptive
parents. Tony teaches that parents have to put their relationship first in the
family so that the children grow up with an example of committed love that they
can emulate when they become adults.

Tony:

What is amazing though is thats why she wants to love you completely, because
she is there. What she will start to do is shes going to angle towards the baby,
shes going to angle towards Ocean and you are going to have a disaster. Ocean
will not grow up healthy because for sure the love of her dad as the primary love
of her life and she can see that thats more important honoring a relationship
between those two and subconsciously thats what happened with her. She will
love her again and her husband will be a secondary love and she will never be
happy. You cannot be happy without relationship. There is a hierarchy to
relationship. She has to know that you honor this woman first and that you
worship your daughter but this woman comes first always and I would love and
die for you as my daughter. She has to see that line. If she doesnt see that line,
you dont help her, you hurt her and you hurt your wife and hurt yourself.

Cloe:

When parents dont put each other first, there is a tendency to form what is called
a cross generation coalition. A cross generation coalition is a coalition between a

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parent and a child where the other parent feels disempowered and left out. For
instance the father might find himself in a coalition with Ocean against Barbie
and Barbie might find herself in a coalition with her son against the father. These
coalitions are conducive to conflict and disturbing behavior because a parent is
deliberately or unwittingly empowering a child against the other parent. A good
family organization is one where the hierarchy is clear. The parents are in alliance
and they are both in charge of their children. For this to happen, the parents have
to put each other first.
Tony:

And the more you do that, the more you triangulate with trying to fill Oceans
every need, I love her so brother you know, I would bow for her, I would do
anything for her. But I wont do anything for her that will hurt her including
things that will make me look good. And I said she might be [Censored 0:50:37]
about it later because I love her, Ive got to serve her and I know that she can be
as bright as can be but she doesnt have enough life experience to know what it
means. She can stand up and look to circles among her friends you dont work
circles around me. So I can see what shes doing. Some of it I dont see it but I just
let it go place in everything else so your job, you are the critical component here.
Its not Barbra, its your as Bill has said wow because I am a man, I have to honor
my wife first. I have to love my wife first instead of living in fear that Ocean wont
feel loved by Mya thats [Censored 0:51:12] she knows you love her, all youve got
to do is not say the things youve said, what you are again and all you have to do is
to take the time and take time consistently to be with her and then there wont be
competition. Because she is not doing it consciously. Its not like she is
consciously trying to beat on Barb. She just wants love.

Cloe:

now that Tony and I have clarified the agreement between the parents, its time to
return to the three or four requirements that Ocean will have to follow in order
for her parents to feel that she is okay. Remember the requirements so far were
first that she cannot do anything illegal and second that she has to be honest with
her parents and able to discuss life with them. Now I am going to suggest another
base line and requirement in which the parents should agree. Ocean is too young
to have sex. Many parents find this topic very difficult to address with a child but
that is all the more reason to make it clear in the basic requirement.
I dont think that Ocean is physically, emotionally or spiritually ready, spiritually
ready to have sex. In human beings sexuality has been aped at thats why in
marriages it is considered a sacrament because marriage is what unites a man
and a woman in a sexual relationship and when sex happens without that kind of
love and spirituality to a very young grown its damaging. So I think that you need
to protect her from pre marital sexual relationships with people there is not a
spiritual context of love because she is just going to get hurt. Its not a good thing.

Albert:

I spoke to him.

Cloe:

Ultimately I think it is in her control.

Albert:

It is in her control.

Cloe:

Its not in anybodys control, its her. And you have to understand that spirituality
and sexuality are related. Sex is not like you give a piece of cake like something

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just pleasant to do. It touches your soul and maybe fortunately you dont know
the pain that comes from the sexual relationship [Inaudible 0:53:29]
[Overlapping 0:53:31] too young for that.
Cloe:

You have to protect her as far as possible and then have your thing. Theres
nothing wrong with sex when it is in a committed loving spiritual relationship.

Barbra:

She is too young to experience that.

Cloe:

But of course she can have that. This brings me to something else important that
I wanted to say today. We have to talk a little bit about Oceans mother because
one thing that concerns me very much is that when Ocean decided to cut off her
mother, and not to speak to her anymore, she became her mother, she began to
do things that her mother does.
After addressing the issue of Oceans pre mature sexual relationship and the pain
that it could cost, I address anther pain that has not been talked about. Its true
that Ocean seems to have stopped trying to help her mother but then what she
had began to do was even worse. Alcohol drugs and sex all behaviors reminiscent
of her mother.

Tony:

Give us some examples.

Cloe:

Alcohol

Barbra:

Smoking pot.

Cloe:

Smoking pot, irresponsible behavior like walking away, running away like live in
the streets. So I dont know what the solution is. I think that it would be much
better for Ocean to have some communication with her mother or some little
thing that she does or something. We have to protect her from becoming her
mother. Thats what I am saying. When you cut somebody off, you tend to
incorporate them. When you got mad at your father, you began to do the things
that your father had talked about that you would never do and [Overlapping
0:59:31] they are bad for example taking the bag of somebody else

Ocean:

I never [Inaudible 0:55:17]

Albert:

I think we sensed, we used to pray everyday and everyday we always put her
mother [Inaudible 0:55:22] weve done this like six or seven years great and then
the last year because we were seeing so many changes going on with her mother, I
had gotten your acquaintance over and I had seen Ocean really so large and she
was so filled with the relationship and then her mother fell off the way side and
then I see Ocean slowly start to be turning again and I was thinking like, and then
I would, like I didnt have a proper situation so maybe it might be easier if she
doesnt hear her name anymore and then it might be easier, okay I dont want you
to talking to her because you are always promising her stuff and you never do it.
So we just started walking and then I started realizing that after a period of time
that I thought my own hired heart I said this one day, you know what Ocean, I
think we should be buying your mother a gift and I think we should probably,

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immediately it was like there was no hesitation at all and I thought shit here I go
again and I have made a mistake.
Tony:

How did you feel when you last actually saw your mom?

Ocean:

It really, like I said before, its closure honestly because what I said before like I
had always been like what a loving mom because she would always be there
whenever like try give and get in touch and all that shit whenever I would
respond to it in the same way because I didnt want to like make her feel hurt, or
rejected or whatever, right. I just wanted to blah, blah, blah but because I am not
that way anymore, I understand the way her mind works and the way I should be
and the way things work for the better, because me responding saying yes is not
going to benefit anybody and thats like lying to myself and saying that she does
love me or she does miss me is like one of the first things she said when we got
upstairs was well I miss you so much and instantly I am like dont even go there,
do not touch that, like dont because it is bullshit. Because even when she was in
like a career before they wouldnt let her to talk to me because they told her like
you are using your children. They dont miss you because she was always I need
to talk to, she has to talk to me, she misses me, she needs to hear from me. like
well she doesnt, she knows your life, she knows that you love her and whatever
she doesnt need to hear you talk to her all that which was a realization to me too
but like which is like [Inaudible 0:57:47] back like whatever form the way and I
cant because it is dump and I dont want to do that because it is wrong, its not
real and I cant communicate with her like anyway because, like I couldnt talk to
her about all this and stuff because there is no reason, cause its like, its not my
mom, its

Cloe:

Ocean let me say something. The big way [Inaudible 0:58:07] in her own way she
loves you.

Ocean:

Oh I know.

[Overlapping 0:58:11]
Cloe:

And when she misses you and wants to talk to you, shes real not fake, she really
loves you. Its just she has her own way of loving. Its not a maternal way. Let me
tell you something some parents are real parents, like their father is a real dad;
some parents are more like an aunt or uncle. So if you thought of her as an aunt
not as a mother, she is your aunt, she is there sometimes and she is affectionate
and maybe she is even funny and fun and then she disappears like an aunt or an
uncle does, doesnt show up for months, then appears again and she is loving as
nothing had happened, thats an aunt and you can still love her as an aunt. She
doesnt behave like a mother. That is all you have to accept

I am giving Ocean a way to love her mother as an aunt without being constantly frustrated and
disappointed because the mother doesnt behave like a mother.
Ocean:

No shes not an aunt or a mother. Shes just like what she claims she is mom like
not technically I wouldnt even consider because Barb put a, my mom has never
been my mom. Like she never talks to me like

Cloe:

She said [Inaudible 0:59:31]

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Ocean:

No shes not. She is a stranger I know all too well because thats why I dont
connect with her, touch her because it is not real, its just not you, its
[Overlapping 0:59:45]

Cloe:

I know I never said that.

Ocean:

And I know she loves me and she may miss me but the reason I dont connect and
talk with her is because there is no reason because I know she is on drugs and
stuff [Inaudible 0:59:55]

Cloe:

Your pain, you would like her to be your mom [Inaudible 1:00:00] and thats
what causes the pain but maybe over the time, not today, not right now but at
some point in time, you will recognize that she loves you all way that is more
similar to an aunt or to a cousin [Overlapping 1:00:15]

Barbra:

Well it takes years for a child to understand. I just understood that with my
mother in the last five years after that she was my mother. Like there was a time
that I hated her and I thought she didnt love me and I thought I know my mother
doesnt love me, the only way she knows how to love me, you know what I mean
honey. It takes years [Overlapping 1:00:34] my natural mother and it took,
probably [Inaudible 1:00:40] so 28, 29 years old, four years ago. I finally
understood my mother and now I can accept her for who she is and you know

Tony:

[Inaudible 1:00:49] a controversy there that your mother called and you just
hung up the phone.

Barbra:

Hey Im done with her now.

Tony:

See that, this is lady is this age, I am done with her right, you know what I mean,
and its their survival

Cloe:

The reality is you are never done with your mother and

Barbra:

True.

Ocean:

Yeah thats what I am saying, I am not done with her but I said no.

Barbra:

But Ocean is not getting what, I think Ocean is not getting what she means and of
course [Overlapping 1:01:19] she is but

Cloe:

She has [Inaudible 1:01:22]

Barbra:

But when her mother is here and I am across the room Ocean I mean in her heart
she would love it from her mother, of course she would. It is beautiful that she
feels that way towards me and I am glad that I can give her that but it is not the
same for Ocean. Ocean needs her mother, Ocean wants her mother

Tony:

But the plain reality and this is the reality youve got to remember. This is the
spiritual faith youve got to remember. Youve got to see that God gave you a
mother and youve got to take the joys of that and see that the mother that bore
you physically is focused on herself and she is an aunt or uncle at best.

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Ocean:

When she was warm, it sounds like

Cloe:

You can accept that and you can caress her also and just say no theres time. Its a
sign of affection.

[Overlapping 1:02:09]
Tony:

Remember that time when you dad had that conversation with you and the next
morning he went to [Inaudible 1:02:13] like what, how can he do that after last
night? Because what we did last night was a scared little boy freaked out, feeling
like he is failing you, dont look like that because someone is screaming at you.
Like every communication weve ever been will end up with one or two things, its
either a cry for help or its a loving response. Thats all there is. When people are
angry and piss you off, they are just screaming out and saying oh I feel
insignificant, I feel unloved, I feel unworthy, I feel thats all they are really doing
and so most people respond with a cry for help with a cry for help which is what
he did. When he did that the next morning, was he loving you this morning? He
was loving you 100%, that was real love you guys gave the next morning but you
couldnt feel it course of your rules. If he treats me like that it means you dont
love. Youve got to get it in black and white it is not that way sweetheart and your
mother coming and doing this with you, what you think is playing games with
you, is just you scared of opening up and feeling and you are hurting them seems
like she loves you. It doesnt look like it and you dont want to believe it and even
if they smack your little tights, it doesnt seem sincere but the tightness is she is
beating herself up because she knows she hasnt been there for you, shes hoping
she can reach you but afraid she wont so she is ending up in ruins. Like even at
face value it doesnt look very loving when she is saying this. It looks what you
call fake. What you are calling fake is internal pain. She beat, no matter how
selfish she is, she beats herself on the ground and thats why she still abuses.

Albert:

[Inaudible 1:03:35] so one moment she tries to show her affection, the other 15
years has been Ocean has set on the outside of the door waiting for her mother to
come out through that door and later what time she met her mother on mothers
day only for her mother to show up four days later. So I mean this knowledge, or
this system or this pattern has been so long that now all over sudden everybody is
saying Ocean you dont have to feel this way and this is her, this is how she feels
like, shake, get your hands off me, dont touch me right. What we are saying to
her the reason [Overlapping 1:04:07] she is trying not to be hurt again which I
understand.

Cloe:

Ocean frustrations and pain about her mother stems from her wish that her
mother would be able to be a real mother to her. At some point in her life, Ocean
needs to come to terms with who her mother really is to accept that she cannot
change her mother and to accept her as a member of her family like an aunt.

Ocean:

Because its like she knows or thinks that I will pull away. She knows I wont and
thats why I pull away because she is so oh Ocean I love you, I miss you and she
is the same pattern as she has always been all my life.

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Tony:

It wont change her.

Cloe:

You are still thinking you could change.

Tony:

Ocean do you think that you can fix her? The only thing that is going to fix her, if
Annie is going to fix

Barbra:

Do you hear what they are saying honey?

Ocean:

I do.

Barbra:

By you trying to change, is another way of you trying to fix your mom to come
back to how you want her to be.

Tony:

You think you are getting leverage if you dont give her love then she will change.

Ocean:

Know what, like its disgusting when she touches me because I dont want her to
because its my part obviously I want to help her but I dont want her to touch me.

Tony:

You dont want to hurt any more. You are sick of being hurt by her. You are sick

Ocean:

Its the same pattern, its not my mom, its some [Censored 1:05:21] person. My
heart was like dont touch me because its just like some stranger trying to do
that. Its the exact the same thing and I dont want that thats why I am like dont,
like whatever right.

Tony:

The more [Inaudible 1:05:35] the feelings are just going to come up honey
because you do want her love. So what you have to do is you have to accept her
love and what portion she can give and not make it fake and not be hurt and just
say this, you have to change your perspective and say I know its disgusting. I
have love here more than I could ever want if I could just open and trust and take
a hold of this woman. Because this woman is choosing me, she isnt just choosing
me for army. If you think that [Censored 1:06:01]

Albert:

Are you saying that when we are standing down, [Overlapping 1:06:07]

Tony:

Are you hearing me right now?

Ocean:

Yeah.

Tony:

She is choosing you not because he is Annie, and not just to please Annie. You get
that?

Ocean:

Yeah.

Tony:

You really [Overlapping 1:06:13]

Tony:

Because she can do a lot to try and please her but I think you know Barbra well
enough to know that she speaks her mind in ways that are not always easier but
she has chosen to love you. Shes afraid you dont love her. You need to take all
that love and fear you have about your mother and give it to your mother. And
know your [Inaudible 1:06:33] its not like she is a stranger, she is your aunt

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because you are going to see her now and looks up for love she goes, you know
the love she goes most is the love she knows how. And that will gradually soup.
Throughout all your pain you said she is a stranger all that it is doing is more
hardening of your heart piece thats going to hurt you anyway. Thats what
worries me. Its going to hurt you whether you know it or not. What works in a
moment, its easier; its so much better that when you bottle up. You love me or
not, you are in or not thats the game that you played and that hurts you with
your daddy that hurts you with Barbie that hurts you with you, that the game
youve got to change. Life is not black and white. Black and white is so much
easier because it is easier to close the door open the door, right. And Id rather
close it if I am going to be hurt. But honey youve got to open and open and open
and the more you open and go through that pain, theres more likely you are
going to be. What you can do to tame the pain is you can do, what we are saying is
that she brought me in this world, she is my aunt. This is mom and youve got to
give all your love and gratitude to her and take all that sense you hear from her
and if you know anybody that fights with your mom and with her youve got to
say. This is real, this emotion that I have I appreciate it that I have [Inaudible
1:07:40] that for her has won and I know in my face that she loves me and even
though it doesnt look like. Youve got to go to your faith, accept a little bit of love
that she has and stop trying to change her. Pulling your love away from her is not
going to make you better. So its both
Tony emphasizes that not only that Barbie is the real mother but that Barbie had
a choice and chose to love Ocean and to be her mother. The more Ocean can
accept Barbies love, the easier it would be for her not to live in pain about her
biological mother and the easier it would be for Barbie to feel empowered and
appreciated as Oceans real mother.
Tony:

And Albert thats also helping you, protect you. The more these walls are put up
of pain, the more pain you are going to be in because other robe you put your
tiger box and pretty soon you are alone and theres nothing you can feel anymore.
These tears you are having are good feelings that they hurt, they are a good
feeling. Now youve got to say how can I use this? She is my aunt, when she
touches me, she does [Inaudible 1:08:39] when she gets out of her drug stupor
shes going to miss me. It hurts and I want it I always want that. I have got to go
to my favorite and say dad give me more and dad worships me maybe too much.
Not to worry.

Albert:

Well theres [Inaudible 1:08:55] what I understand by you making a decision

even though you are among strangers that by you making that decision it would
make your world easier to make the same decisions on and I am going to run
away, okay I am going to do drugs, okay I am going to break the law because they
are going against the most sincere thing in the world that you need for identity
and connection which is her mother and you know the state that she is in, right.
So thats what I think I am hearing. So basically what I am hearing is please
Alison, we understand how much you hurt and the pain is there but please
[Overlapping 1:09:33]

Barbra:

That day your mama called and I talked to her right, and I told Ocean that I
talked to her with love like I talked to her but when she needs to do stuff because
I have compassion for her because she is one of us, she is a drug addict and she is

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sick. I know that she loves Ocean; I know she misses Ocean and I need, it disgusts
me sweetheart when I see her touching you.
Tony:

Are you scared of the letter that youve given her is going to cause any unwanted
clarity or

Albert:

Can I tell you what her mother is? A mother is unconditional love. Thats what
you wanted and your mom doesnt have that right now.

Cloe:

But in her spirit she does.

Tony:

In her spirit she does but not in her behavior. This woman wants your love so bad
more than she will ever tell you or admit. She wants your love so bad, look at the
[Inaudible 1:10:15] when you said that. She wants your love because she loves
you. She loves you and shes afraid its not being reciprocated and she is damn
fearful and shes still trying to hook you up with your mother. Now if you want
some demonstration of someone giving you some love here is somebody who
wants your love. What we should be doing is going to bed, close the door but she
keeps thinking about what you need. Whether its her needs or not thats what a
mama does and anybody can be a mama or a dad. What it means is caring
completely for you not even if it means a loss to her. Look at her face right now,
look at her. She worships you. Youve got more love in this woman right here than
you can possibly imagine. You want your daddys love, you want your mamas love
its like its slapping your face and you are not seeing and it doesnt look like it
because they want you to get scared. What do you get when you get scared?

Ocean:

[Inaudible 1:11:06]

Tony:

[Inaudible 1:11:13] youve seen it. And how did you, that was hard, no, no, no and
you are like you dont understand me and all of this is fear. So youve got to
remember every communication is a loving response or a cry for help. She is
crying to you saying no, no, no. shes saying please respect me, please show me
that you know that I love you and that you will honor me. You dont want her
here to honor you by giving you the freedom of choices also and understand you
but you are not taking enough time to understand her. You ought to move her
[Inaudible 1:11:37] but you dont understand her completely. If you understood
her, you will be filled up; your mama womb will get filled.

Ocean:

I am glad you are, like told him like he has to stop to try and please me because
for Barb is like forgotten about right here, is like respected well she should
because like I see that he can turn around and please me, he puts her at a lower
level than me right. Dont do that because she is [Inaudible 1:12:22] youve got to
put her up there right.

Cloe:

Ocean is telling the father that how upsetting it is to see him putting his daughter
above his wife. This confirms what every child feels but which few parents realize.
Even though a child may want to be a parents favorite and may even attempt to
engage one of the parents in a cross generational coalition, the child knows for
her own sake, and for the familys sake, the parents have to put each other first.
Now listen to Oceans explanation to this.

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Ocean:

Which so I am happy extremely that youve mentioned that because its like you
dont understand the process that way because you may not notice that I wont
accept it whatever but you have to understand like I know you love me, right like
you dont have to like tell her like no, like Barb wait dont do that because you
might hurt her and try and process everything that you do well because you dont
have to. You dont have to second guess telling me something or mentioning
something or doing something because I know you love me. You dont have to
show it all the time or put her in a lower level to make me feel higher because I
dont. I dont want you guys to stand wherever I stand and we are all like equal
level and you guys have to be like you said possibly like higher because you have
to stay strong. Because if you guys have no communication or cant love each
other, respect each other, if you dont do that then you cant do the same towards
me either. So you guys fight or whatever, you dont respect her or talk to her
down or she talks to you down and then you guys are angry anyway and you come
out angry towards me. So really you have to put her above me, sometimes, all the
times whatever the case maybe in order to make the whole thing work. I dont feel
bad at that either because I understand that.

Cloe:

Thats wonderful.

Ocean:

Yeah.

Albert:

Honey thats beautiful.

Tony:

Thats your own selfish self and you know what will happen to her and that will
always never as hard but it is priority for focus because thats what you want from
[Inaudible 1:14:32]

Cloe:

The basis of a happy family is a firm and loving hierarchy with both parents
united in friendship, love and in their duty, guidance for the children. When
Ocean is asking the father to put Barbie first, she is asking him to diminish the
triangle that was causing all the three of them so much pain. When the father is
no longer constrained by his feelings for his daughter, he can honor his wife.
When he is present in honoring his wife, Barbie can relax more in relation to
Ocean because she can trust him to be a firm and loving father. When the father
and mother are agreed on how they are going to parent Ocean, then the
challenges of raising a teenager no longer threaten their marriage and the
structure of the family. Now take a moment to ask yourself as a parent do you put
your marriage partner first or do you put your childrens needs first? Does your
partner feel respected, desired and loved over and above the children? Do your
children see you honoring your partner on a regular basis? For instance, when
your partners asks you to do something regarding the children, do you honor
their wishes? Do you support your partners request or do you subvert your
partners request by joking about it? Ask for the childrens permission as well even
though they are not the parents, let your children talk you out of honoring your
partners request or dispute your partners request in front of the children instead
of supporting them first and discussing it in private later.
When you honor your partners needs and wishes first, you support the healthy
hierarchy that is essential to a functioning family. When you dont honor your
partners needs, even if you disagree with their request, you are creating a cross
generational coalition, giving the child more power than your partner.

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Now that the father is agreeing to take on more of a leadership position, Tony is
going to talk about helping Barbie to let go of some of the control and authority
that she has been using. Tony jokes about Barbies authoritative communication
style by calling it sergeant major and suggest that they have a ceremony where
they put sergeant major to rest.
Tony:

Well you tell me whats the announce of yours, what are you going to do?

Albert:

First I am going to go to my heart and I am going to be the high hierarchy.

Tony:

Not for me, from you heart.

Albert:

From my heart and Barbie will be number one and then I will just take control. I
will take control of the environment.
Playfully, warmly in your heart

Tony:
Albert:

[Overlapping 1:17:28] Im talking about the decision making when it comes with
of course [Inaudible 1:17:36]

Tony:

What about her, please her, love her and honor and

Albert:

I am going to do what I think is best for her and I am going to make decisions, I
am going to make tough decisions. [Overlapping 1:17:47] open as I have ever
been. Lots of [Inaudible 1:17:52].

Tony:

What could she do that will disappoint you enough that you didnt love her?

Albert:

Gossip.

Tony:

Does she have to be the perfect angel child?

Albert:

No.

Tony:

Does she have to be the one that [Overlapping 1:18:11]

Cloe:

the basis of a healthy family structure is the parents co leadership and guidance
of the children. That means hierarchy where the parents occupy a higher
leadership position in the family. When one or both parents dont make this a
priority, or when the parents consistently put one of the childrens needs over the
needs of the other parent, the family structure is weakened.
In Oceans family, the father was so afraid of rejecting Ocean that he weakened
himself in his authority to father because he was always double checking with
Ocean about what she was feeling, his leadership suffered. He was criticized by
his wife and he found himself in an impossible middle position between Ocean
and Barbie where he had to appease Ocean while proving his toughness to his
wife. This put Barbie in a vulnerable position and as a step mother because she
consistently had to be the bad guy in relation to Ocean. So on that Halloween
night, when Ocean was asking special permission to stay over, the father in order
to prove himself to his wife spoke in such a tough way to Ocean that she became
confused and violent and Ocean felt the safety net of her family collapse. When

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that happened, Ocean felt that she had nothing to stay for and fell for behaviors
like cutting, doing drugs and planning to run away. Now by strengthening the
communication patterns in the family, we have strengthened the family. This can
only happen when the mother and father are united in mutual respect and trust
and when they put their relationship first so that they can be united and strong in
dealing with the challenges of raising a teenager.

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