Rail concerns 'across the board' at open house

By RHYS SAUNDERS (rhys.saunders@sj-r.com)

THE STATE JOURNAL-REGISTER
Posted Apr 20, 2010 @ 08:48 PM
Last update Apr 21, 2010 @ 07:44 AM

The first public open house to discuss the Springfield rail corridor study drew more than 220 people to the Prairie Capital Convention
Center on Tuesday.

City and Sangamon County officials pushed for the study after the Illinois Department of Transportation concluded the Union
Pacific/Third Street line would be the best route for high-speed passenger trains between Chicago and St. Louis. Local officials
contend the analysis will find 10th Street is a better alternative for consolidated train traffic, possibly also including trains that now
use 19th Street.

The study, expected to cost $4 million, is being paid for by the Illinois Department of Transportation. Findings are due in the spring
of 2011.

Jim Moll, project manager for Hanson Professional Services, said issues raised by those who attended were “scattered across the
board.”

“What we’re hearing from people is they’re concerned,” he said. “They’re concerned that there’s going to be more trains through
Springfield, they’re concerned with noise and vibrations and the delays that are going to result from that.”

“The problem is, it’s tough to find something that’s going to work for everybody.”

Three questions were posed to attendees, including the following:

What desires do you have for the improvement and/or redevelopment of the railroad corridors and their surrounding
neighborhoods?
What concerns do you have about increasing rail traffic near where you live, work and play?
What values do you think should inform the study team’s decision-making as it determines how best to accommodate
increasing rail traffic through Springfield?
Attendees were asked to specify whether their answers pertained to the Third Street, 10th Street or 19th Street corridors, or to the
entire city.

Preston and Joanne Hott, who live in the 1100 block of South Fourth Street, said putting high-speed rail on the Third Street corridor
would mean trains will whiz past their home. Even though Tuesday’s public forum didn’t answer the Hotts’ questions, they said it was
a good introduction to the study’s preliminary findings.

“I thought the presentation, the video that we saw, was really well done,” Preston Hott said.

Joanne Hott said she’s concerned about speed limits, noise, vibration, property values, cross-street traffic, issues pertaining to
emergency vehicle travel and the prospects that constant train traffic will block off Springfield’s medical communities, historic sites
and downtown business.

“How can they justify putting this great schism in the middle of our fair city, blocking off the medical area, the business, the historic
sites?” she asked. “If someone at the Lincoln Museum downtown wants to get to Oak Ridge Cemetery to visit Lincoln’s tomb, how are
you going to explain that?”

Gay Davidson said the open house provided a more comprehensive look at the high-speed rail issue than previous public meetings.

“I didn’t know how much impact it would have on each of the neighborhoods and each of the corridors,” she said. “It was very helpful
in getting a visual sense of it, how many buildings were close and things like that.”

Davidson said she doesn’t believe the study will consider the possibility of redirecting train travel outside the city.

“I think that might be better, because I think any of these (options) are going to be detrimental to the city,” she said.

Rhys Saunders can be reached at 788-1521.

To contact Railroad Corridor Study

Want to comment on the study? There will be additional open houses in the fall 2010. In the meantime, here are ways to contact the
Springfield Railroad Corridor Study:

Phone: 1-877-552-5505
Write: Springfield Railroad Corridor Study, c/o Vector Communications Corporation, 701 N. 15th St., Mailbox 43, St. Louis
 MO 63103
e-mail: info@springfieldrailroad.com
Copyright 2010 The State Journal-Register. Some rights reserved

Comments (25)
Mark Observed
1 week ago
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I am sure the NIMBY's were out in force.

College Student
1 week ago
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NIMBY's are just capitalists. Advocate for yourself and put yourself first. That is what I was taught was the most efficient way of doing business in our system of
economics. Protect your investment from harm at any cost. I mean, do you blame them?
smoke n mirrors
1 week ago
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'they' are going to put the 3rd street corridor in regardless. 4 million is nothing to bo able to say ' we did the study you wanted and this is the best way' REMEMBER,
Senator Durbin could have stopped this.
Sick N. Tired
1 week ago
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smoke n mirrors -
'put the 3rd street corridor' .. ? Union Pacific owns that corridor - it is their decision to run / not run trains on it (just like Norfolk Southern on 10th Street and
Canadian Pacific on 19th Street). Exactly how does Senator Durbin stop a private business from lawfully using its property?
myopinion2
1 week ago
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1100 block of South 4th. That's 12 blocks from the train station where the train is at a dead stop. That will have to be one mighty fast train to go from zero to 'whizzing
by' in only12 blocks. Trains can't stop on a dime either so they have to stop 'whizzing' sooner than 12 blocks from the station.
fireburt102
1 week ago
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How did Springfield survive in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s when the railroads ran MORE trains than what is projected? How do the burbs of West Chicago make it
through 120+ trains per day, many of which are commuter passenger trains that tie up crossings for several minutes at a time for station stops?
tc
1 week ago
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High Speed Rail?????

Yesterday, I left on the Amtrak train for Chicago at 6:30 am. After several stops and delays, I arrived at Chicago Union Station at 10:40 am. I could have driven myself
there faster!

But wait! I left Chicago's Union Station at 1:45 pm and arrived back in Springfioeld at 5:55 pm - another blistering high speed rail success!

Folks, the smoke & mirrors that has been pumping out this 'high speed passenger rail' garbage for the last several years is just that! GARBAGE! The Union Pacific
Railroad is going to increase their commercial transportation rail traffic by 300%, clogging and blocking Springfield city traffic seven days a week if they are not made
to run their extra set of tracks AROUND Springfield.

This is not about High Speed Passenger rail service and NEVER has been. It is all about the Union Pacific tripling their commercial service and tripling their annual
income for hauling goods, not people. It will still take four hours plus to ride from Springfield to Chicago on Amtrak, longer than it would take to drive yourself.

The current occupant of the White House must owe the UP railroad some skin cause this ain't about high speed rail here in Illinois, it's about making the UP railroad
more money - alot more money.

Just remember one other small detail about all this smoke & mirrors junk. If it weren't for Federal subsidies to keep it alive - Amtrak would be dead! It's a loser!
couldn't stay in business without Federal handouts every year.

LuckyD
1 week ago
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I may be mistaken, but my take from previous articles was that additional railroad right of way would be needed for high speed rail along the 3rd street corridor that is
not currently owned by the railroad.

I'm not sure who owns that ground, but it seems to me there is a viable way to stop the expansion of that corridor which would divide the downtown area.
stanley
1 week ago
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myopinion2 - I don't think all trains stop at the station, only passenger.

We own several houses in Southern View that are on the tracks. Will this cause drywall to crack, etc? I didn't know about this meeting or would have attended.
greygoat
1 week ago
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This issue has me questioning our government's good,although collective, sense. What state would impose a change in rail transportation that routed 37 freight trains
through the heart of its pristeen State Capital???? Isn't the real plan to move the Capitol Building to Chicago shortly after Springfield is left in a cloud of rail dust and
diesel exhaust and a din of noise caused by the Dick Durbin Political Express.
COMMENTATOR
1 week ago
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You take private enterprise and you infect it with government bureaucracy and you have nothing but studies and delays and zero progress. The railroad should just
take their own money and buy their own land and build their own tracks and run their own trains which by the way they have every right to do.
dpi
1 week ago
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tc-drive from the Springfield depot to Union Station in Chicago at the posted speed limit and there is no way you can beat Amtrak times.

You also contradict your own statements about President Obama being behind this. You say this garbage about high speed rail has been spewed for years. Your right,
high speed rail for Illinois has been on the high speed rail association's wish list for 2 decades. Long before Obama was president and way before Union Pacific owned
the line.
Gramsci
1 week ago
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It sounds like another meeting that failed to correct the misconceptions and propaganda city leaders have spread about high speed rail. Did any of the presentations
focus on why most cities are eager and begging to get more passenger rail in their downtown? Did they explain how it could help downtown businesses and inner
neighborhoods? Their focus on only the negative impacts of rail suggest this is a rigged process with an agenda.
tc
1 week ago
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Ah dpi - high speed passenger rail transportation has been discussed for 'years' but the MONEY is where it's at and that my friend didn't come until the Obama
administration gave it the GO! It is the Obama money being sought after, not any other administrations money. Hence, my comments about 'skin' and the Obama. No
contradictions from me, just your way of adding your thoughts but not contradicting mine.

Who owned the rail lines before the UP? when did the UP purchase them? did they purchase them with federal assistance (money)? How much does UP charge Amtrak
to use their track? If you can answer all these questions (correct - incorrect doesn't matter), you get to keep your White House job. If not, it's back to cheerleader for
you!

By the way, I have driven from Springfield to Union Station in downtown Chicago faster than the Amtrak could get me there on several occasions. Amtrak is a LOSER
and a siphon on federal funds, even more so since the Obama took over the White House.

Vigil in a Wilderness of Mirrors

1 week ago
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LuckyD, the railroad retains the necessary right of way. There used to be two tracks down Third Street.

COMMENTATOR, I see your point. The railroad already did take their own money and bought their own land and built their own tracks and ran their own trains. Yet,
people are not happy with that. Some want the railroad to disappear altogether, and some want to give them more money to upgrade the track as a public service. Folks
need to realize the railroad is not the villain here.
tc
1 week ago
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I've lived in this town for 52 years and do not recall two sets of tracks on third street, ever? Tenth street yes but third street? I amy be wrong.

Please stop with the high speed rail stuff, the term does not fit nor wil it ever fit Amtrak. Unless of course you consider passenger trains tarveling at 80 MPH as high
speed? Shaving off 20 minutes from St. Louis to Chicago isn't high speed, unless you're a sloth.

This is simply the Union Pacific's way of tripling thier commercial load. They have spent Millions on their new rail yard outside Joliet to collect the 300% increase of
commercial cars carrying goods - not people.

If this is truely for high speed rail (I hate that term in this context) why doesn't the federal government just give the money to Amtrak and have them build and OWN
the rail lines for high speed passenger service? Why give the Union Pacific railroad a second set of tracks to increase the volume of non-passenger rail service?

The answer is to have the UP build tracks to run ALL FREIGHT trains around Springfield and let the passenger rail run through downtown. Billions being spent by the
fed's in the name of high speed passenger service and all that's happening is benefiting private, money making freight rail service.

dpi
1 week ago
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tc-OK I'll answer your questions.

Southern Pacific RR owned the tracks before Union Pacific(UP). UP bought the line in 1996. Before that it was Chicago Missouri ans Western RR. Before that, Illinois
Central Gulf RR. Do I need to keep going because I can.

No, the UP didn't use any federal assistance to buy Southern Pacific RR. Nice try though.

Amtrak gets charged a fee to use freight RR tracks throughout it's system. It come no where near the actual cost for the freight RR to maintain for their private rights of
way.

Sorry if I answered your questions. Don't work in the white house. And I don't look good in a cheerleader outfit.

Now answer me some questions. Who paid for the upgrade of the line for high speed running between Springfield and Mazonia in 2000-2001? How much does the
Union Pacific pay in property taxes in Sangamon County?

David P. Jordan
1 week ago
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tc,

Private funds were used.

Here's some history: Union Pacific gained the (Chicago-) Joliet - E. St. Louis line in 1996 when it acquired Southern Pacific Lines. Southern Pacific acquired it from
bankrupt Chicago Missouri & Western in late 1989. Chicago Missouri & Western acquired it from Illinois Central (Gulf) in 1987. Illinois Central Gulf was the product of
a 1972 merger between the Gulf Mobile & Ohio and Illinois Central. The former had the line before that. Prior to the Gulf Mobile & Ohio, it was the Chicago & Alton.
The was built in the 1850s.

It's sad how Springfield politicians and the often hapless State Journal-Register can rile up so many people into a frenzy over what should be a non-issue. When
Amtrak service increased from six to ten daily trains in October 2006, no one complained. And over the years, there have been fluctuations in the number of freight
trains on the '3rd Street' line as well. In the mid-1990s, Southern Pacific operated as many as 10-12 trains per day on this line. Several of these were typically long and
heavy merchandise trains. Today, Union Pacific runs perhaps three (not five) daily trains, most of them short- or medium-sized.

Strange no one noticed trains back then. Or complained. That is until the SJ-R and local politicians started raising a stink about it.
tc
1 week ago
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I don't work for the railroad folks but thanks for the railroad history lessons. As I thought, the railroad shills are out in force giving history lessons!

Just one little thingy though to consider and I'll ask the railroad shills this one - will the Union Pacific be increasing their daily freight traffic through Springfield by - or
up to 300% as has been reported by UP officials? Just forget about the history lesson and what anyone thought about past trains cutting Springfield in half. My
grandparents are dead so I can't ask them about that stuff.

All history lessons aside, the UP railroad makes money doesn't it? Why then does the UP railroad or any other for profit railroad run their freights through Springfield
insteasd of around it? Because that's where the tracks are! Why don't they relocate their tracks around Springfield? because it costs a lot of money to do that stuff and
why should they spend their money to relocate when they have Springfield cut in half now!

The history lessons could continue regarding the placement of freight tracks into Springfield but since ALL Manufacturing has been run out of town over the years
(Fiat Allis, Pilsbury, Sangamo Electric [Illinois Watch factory before that] and others, the freight tracks should now be routed around the city since none of the
mentioned manufacturing plants are even here anymore, with the exception of the physical structures left at the old Pilsbury Mills location.

What's more important to the UP Railroad? MONEY of course and this is all about MONEY - not high speed passenger rail service so get off the hump you bunch of
railroad shills and just admit to the fact that this is a MONEY deal for the UP Railroad.

It's OK to make money so there's no need to apologize for that. Just don't wiz down my back and tell me it's raining outside fella's.
PP
1 week ago
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SJ-R Photo Editors, have you no pictures of any events ever at the Amtrak station when it was still owned by the GM&O? President Truman spoke there in 1948 from
the back of a railroad observation car. It would be instructive to show how the tracks were laid out then.

I have seen published photos showing as many as 5 tracks between the station and the building which now houses Isringhousen's. There were two tracks through
downtown as late as 1978. and the UP should still own right of way wide enough to accomodate both tracks. I'd like to see the published plat showing where they don't,
or perhaps the deeds where the previous owners of the right of way sold it to private individuals or to local businesses.
Mister Grumpy
1 week ago
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Don't worry........ the high speed rail will never be built....... By the time the NIMBY's and the Lobbyists have discussed which route to take to death........ the money
that's currently available will have been spent by another state more deserving.
Mister Grumpy
1 week ago
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Tc.......... don't forget that Hobbs, and Phoenix (Illini Tech) were more or less forced to leave town also. Over 500 high paying jobs between the those two alone have
been lost.
dpi
1 week ago
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tc-before I was a white house employee or cheerleader. I replied to your questions with fact and you call me a shill. And you didn't even closely respond to my question.
But again I can answer yours.

Yes UP will increase the number of their trains that run through Springfield on their tracks. I even one up you and predict a @0 increase. Now pay attention this is the
important part. UP will do this irregardless of any stimulus money spent on the line. UP doesn't need 'Obama's' money to do this. OK you still with me? The
Government, Amtrak, wants increase the number and the speed of it's trains on UP's track. The UP line as it sits now can't handle the faster more frequent trains with
upgrading the line. The Government is going to pay for these upgrades. The UP will in fact suffer, because of the increase of passenger trains mingled with their freight
trains. I'm not a shill, I can just see through the smoke and mirrors that the opponents of this project put out.

So using your logic. If the city of Springfield doesn't like the location of a McDonalds store, McDonalds should have to pay out their own pocket to relocate?
myopinion2
1 week ago
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The current Amtrak station was constructed in 1895 which means the tracks have been there even longer. Unless you are at least 115 years old, the tracks were there
before you were so if you live near the 3rd Street tracks, it was your choice. If it weren't for the railroads Springfield wouldn't be the state capitol. Population would be
less than half what it is today. Life does not stand still. Adust.
David P. Jordan
1 week ago
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tc,

Check out these views taken at the present depot on February 28, 1971. They clearly show two main tracks, a siding and industry spurs.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=266512&nseq=115

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=266269&nseq=2

The Gulf Mobile & Ohio removed one of two main tracks on its Chicago - E. St. Louis line in the 1960s when it installed Centralized Traffic Control (CTC). Two main
tracks, however, remained in place through town until the late 1970s or early 1980s. By then it was Illinois Central Gulf.

Fast forward to present-day, the hundreds of millions needed to build a rail freight corridor along the east side is the reason it will NEVER be done. Furthermore, if
you consolidate all three rail lines which pass through town, you will get ONE, double-tracked congested bottleneck through the middle of town, unless you're willing
to pony up the tens of millions needed for overpasses.

It's far better to have fewer trains on three lines than a bunch of trains on a single corridor through town. You prevent rail congestion that way. As for future train
frequency on the so-called Third Street Corridor, the numbers in the study are bogus. Union Pacific has about three, not five, trains per day and will likely have no
more than 10-12 when the Joliet Intermodal Terminal is in full operation. It will never amount to 22 trains per day unless there is also a significant increase in traffic
on the Peoria Subdivision (UP reaches it using the Illinois & Midland RR). And I would be surprised to see Amtrak go any higher than the present 10 trains per day. As
a result, very little time will be spent waiting for trains at Springfield grade crossings.
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