Beruflich Dokumente
Kultur Dokumente
COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF
PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS
(BLUE RIBBON)
DATE
TIME
10:30 a.m.
VENUE
Session Hall
2nd Floor, Senate of the Philippines
Financial Center, Roxas Boulevard
Pasay City
AGENDA
INVESTIGATION
INTO
THE
ALLEGED
US$100 MILLION THAT WAS LAUNDERED
IN THE PHILIPPINES
ATTENDANCE
SENATORS:
HON.
HON.
HON.
HON.
HON.
GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:
Mr. Nestor A. Espenilla Jr.
Deputy Commissioner in
Operations, Bureau of Internal
Revenue (BIR)
Atty. Marissa O. Cabreros
- Assistant Commissioner for
Legal Service, BIR
Atty. Mitchell L. Yu
- Chief, Regular Large Taxpayers
Audit Division II
Atty. Dennis Funa
- Deputy Insurance
Commissioner, Insurance
Commission (IC)
Atty. Julia C. Bacay-Abad
- Executive Director, Anti-Money
Laundering Council (AMLC)
Secretariat
Mr. Eugene Manalastas
- Chief Operating Officer,
Philippine Amusement and
Gaming Corporation (PAGCOR)
Mr. Raymundo De Guzman
- PAGCOR Representative for
Midas
Mr. Manuel Huberto B. Gaite
- Commissioner, Securities and
Exchange Commission (SEC)
Mr. Lorenzo V. Tan
- President and Chief Executive
Officer, Rizal Commercial
Banking Corporation (RCBC)
Atty. Ma. Celia Fernandez-Estavillo- Head, Legal and Regulatory Affairs
Group, RCBC
Mr. Raul Victor B. Tan
- Executive Vice President
Treasury Group Head, RCBC
Ms. Maia Santos-Deguito
- Former Branch Manager, RCBCJupiter Branch
Mr. Dennis Bancod
- Operations Head, RCBC
Mr. Adrian Yujuico
- Reserve Officer, RCBC
Mr. Reymart A. Marbella
- Customer Service Assistant,
RCBC
Mr. Romualdo S. Agarrado
- Reserve Officer, RCBC
Atty. Alvin Go
- Head and Chief Legal Counsel, BDO
Unibank, Inc.
Ms. Alice Z. Cordero
- 1st Senior Vice President, Global
Compliance Group, Philippine National
Bank (PNB)
Mr. Emmanuel Gomez
- Branch Manager, PNB-Ermita
Atty. Benedicto Valerio Jr.
- Corporate Secretary, EastWest
Banking Corporation
Ms. Bernadette Ratcliffe
- Chief Compliance Officer,
EastWest Banking Corporation
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Guingona
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Guingona
Recto
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Enrile
Enrile
Osmea
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Osmea
Osmea
Osmea
Aquino
Angara
Pimentel
Binay
Binay
SENATE SECRETARIAT:
Atty. Rodolfo Noel S. Quimbo
Committee Stenographer
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Legislative Page
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Audio Operator
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morning, sir.
Okay. We have representatives from the BIRare you around?
Please raise your hand. Okay. So, Mr. Nelson Aspe, Marissa Cabreros,
Mitchell
YuOh,
you
are
out
in
forceShirley
Calapatiagood
the
Securities
and
Exchange
Commission,
The
morning,
sir;
Atty.
Maria
Celia
Estavillo--good
Valerio
and
Bernadette
Ratcliffehello,
maam,
good
time. I understand you have a statement later on. We will give you
time to say your statement, maam; Angela Torres, formerly of RCBC
maam, yes, I see you, good morning; and Lauren Anthony Escobar,
the business sales officer of Grepalife. Are you around?
Okay. Can we have those who have not yetwho are here for
the first time, please stand up and take your oath.
Comsec, pleaseDirector General, please administer the oath.
MR. QUIMBO.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth in this proceeding? [Resource persons nodded.]
[The resource persons who took their oath are Mr. Raymundo De
Guzman, Atty. Dennis Funa, Mr. Nelson Aspe, Atty. Marissa Cabreros,
Atty. Mitchell Yu and Ms. Alice Cordero.]
Thank you. You may take your seats.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Puwede ba, in
front of everyone, the public now, can we get a commitment that you
will return the 450 million?
MR. WONG.
Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN.
sheets?
MR. WONG.
Hindi po.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. WONG.
Good as cash?
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
10
MR. WONG.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
because hearing after hearing after hearing, you have been saying to
the public that you delivered 600 million cash to Mr. Weikang Xu at
Solaire and $18 million. But in the last hearing, you contradicted
yourself by saying that .../jlf
11
THE CHAIRMAN.
done in your house and you said that Mr. Kim Wong was present. So
there is a contradiction here.
referring to Page 170 of the transcripts, and here you state that there
was a delivery of cash which was done in your house. So if all 600 was
delivered to Solaire plus the 18 million, why now suddenly youre
saying that there is a delivery in your house in the presence of Mr. Kim
Wong? You have contradicted yourself. And mind you, I think you are
facing a lot of problems. I dont think you should add to your problems
by giving false testimony, please.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Okay, sir.
company with the flawless and spotless record. We do not have any
complaints from any clients or from any transactions
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
12
MR. BAUTISTA.
Weikang Xu. And the first delivery was done in Solaire and everything
else was picked up from our house, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
In
Page 124, it says and it is Senator Recto asking, in the Senate, you
said in the first hearing, you delivered personally and with the staff to
a certain Weikang Xu.
Ms. Bautista: Weikang Xu, its 600 million and 18 million.
MS. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO. In the first hearing, yes, I did ask, that is correct.
And the testimony then was she delivered, together with her staff, 600
13
Yes.
Okay.
nagsabi nang totoo. And in the first two or three hearings also, wala
silang binabanggit that they delivered money or that Kim Wong picked
up money with them.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO.
At material itong
Yes, sir.
Remember, we
Thats
Go ahead, sir.
14
SEN. RECTO.
million dollars?
MR. BAUTISTA.
accepted the fact that this transaction was a mistake. And we will take
the heats because we have to help solve this problem for everybody.
But, sir, we are not keeping money. There is no money with us. The
first, the second hearing, we offered whatever we earned to return.
We were the first one to offer that.
THE CHAIRMAN.
15
MR. BAUTISTA.
We categorically deny
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
contradictory statements.
Youre under oath. Ang feeling kasi namin, parang niloloko tayo
dito.
Yes, answer.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Now, youre
16
Your messenger.
MS. BAUTISTA.
cannot
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
17
MS. BAUTISTA.
days. It was not one delivery. We already gave you all the delivery
receipts.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
umpisa na limang daang piso lang ang kinita, tapos naging sampung
milyon and thenmaliwanag iyong testimony.
Senator Bam.
18
19
MS. BAUTISTA.
present also.
20
21
22
23
Mr. Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sandali lang. Let me interject. This is the
transcript. Ang tanong ninyo po kung Mr. Kim Wong was present in all
deliveries:
Senator Aquino:--Page 170Okay.
24
Could
25
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor, because I was not there in all
the deliveries.
SEN. AQUINO.
Ah.
usapan natin.
THE CHAIRMAN. May I? May I interject?
SEN. AQUINO. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
26
kuwento. And its very bothersome for me that every hearing paibaiba po iyong kuwento. So, klaruhin na po natin finally.
According to you, there were six times na nagka-exchange ng
pera. Yes. For the record, please, state that.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. The first time was in Solaire.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Nandoon si Ms. Salud, iyong mga kasamahan sa
Philrem and si Mr. Wong at si Mr. Weikang Xu.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. At nagbigay ka ng P100 million.
MS. BAUTISTA.
$500,000.
27
Wala
hong 500,000.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Maglilista ako. Balanse ng P10 million
andmagkano iyong dollars na binigay po sa inyo?
MR. WONG. Wala po.
SEN. AQUINO. Wala. Okay.
The second time was in your home, Mr. Bautista.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Magkano po iyong binigay ninyo?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, P110 million and $3 million.
SEN. AQUINO. Was Mr. Wong present?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Sir, the whole document list, I think
you already have a copy.
SEN. AQUINO. Yes. But I want to cross reference it with Mr.
Wong, for the record.
So, Mr. Wong, pangalawang beses daw po, P110 million, US$3
million. Totoo po ba iyon?
MR. WONG. Iyong P100 million--
28
Totoo iyon.
So may balanse ka pa ng 10
million.
Third time, kasama po si Mr. Wong, Mr. Bautista?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, P100 million and $3 million.
SEN. AQUINO. Iyong pangatlong beses po. Third time na ito,
sir, same amounts.
One
hundred
million
pesos,
three
million
dollars,
noong
29
30
MR. WONG.
Okay.
time?
Okay. And then there was one more time that Mr. WongSo the
fourth time nagkaroon ng exchange of cash, Mr. Bautista, kasama ba
si Mr. Wong?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, you know, weve beenweve given all our
records.
31
delivered everything.
magkano po?
MR. WONG. One hundred million pesos.
SEN. AQUINO. And $3 million?
MR. MR. WONG. Hindi po, wala po iyon. Wala po iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. So nung pangatlong beses wala kang dollars na
kinuha mula kina Mr. Bautista?
MR. WONG. Wala na po.
SEN. AQUINO. Do you agree, Mr. Bautista?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, I deny that, sir.
32
kumuha.
SEN. AQUINO. Sino po iyong tao nila na kumuha?
MR. BAUTISTA. Supposedly Weikang Xu was there because the
document was there signed.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo kilala iyong taong kumuha nung pera?
MR. BAUTISTA. Okay. Sir, I was there. I watched them load
the funds and then I asked for the receipt and it was just reached out
to me.
SEN. AQUINO. Binigyan ka ng resibo ni Mr. Weikang Xu?
MR. BAUTISTA. We gave it to him and then he signed and he
returned it
SEN. AQUINO.
33
kasama?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, they would come in two cars, sometimes
three cars, a few people, iyong bodyguards, drivers.
SEN. AQUINO.
Chairman.
MR. WONG. Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
34
35
36
SEN. RECTO. So from the branch lang, iyong papel lang ninyo,
is what you are saying is, the accountsthe four accounts putting that
money to Wilson Go and go to Philrem. Thats basically it.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, thats what I exactly told you also in the
executive session.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes.
Correct?
Okay.
So 81 pumasok sa inyo, 61
37
SEN. RECTO.
Nevertheless,
Okay.
would give you a total figure of how much is my balance plus what I
have in cash.
actually get it from different places and not only from where it came in
because once I buy dollars fromWell, once the dollar is credited to
our RCBC account, it now becomes our committed transaction.
But
38
Okay. And
you knew that this money was coming into your account?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was called when it came.
SEN. RECTO. Yes.
MR. BAUTISTA. Not from before.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
You were
39
dinner.
SEN. RECTO. So you were with Ms. Salud Bautista in the first
delivery?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Ms. Salud Bautista said earlier that she made the
first delivery, she didnt mention that she was with you. She did not?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, but
SEN. RECTO.
together, Michael
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Mr. Kim Wong and Ms. Deguito.
Ms. Deguito, do you confirm that you were in a dinner?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, sir.
40
Okay.
Do you confirm the statement of Kim Wong also that you
delivered 20 million to him?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I saw kasi the last hearing po. I confirm
that that is my car but I did not deliver anything. Mr. Kim Wong was
saying he got 100 million.
SEN. RECTO. Mr. Kim Wong said 80 from Salud
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN. RECTO. and 20, it would appear, from Mr. Simon(?)
MS. DEGUITO. Honestly, Your Honor, ayaw ko na din sanang
makisali doon as to total kasi he said, she said. But I will just tell
you po, I did not deliver anything in Solaire. I just went there.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
41
So Ms. Deguito, you were in a dinner with Concon and Mr. Wong.
Concon claims that you instructed him to deliver to Weikang Xu, right?
And youre claiming that you never instructed him.
42
Yes po.
bangko.
SEN. RECTO. So how many years?
MS. DEGUITO. Mga 15 years, 16 years.
43
Okay.
Opo.
Philrem na, Uy, sige, kayo na ang mag-convert nito into pesos, kayo
na iyong middle agent dito, one way or the other. Hindi ba? Okay.
So nabanggit mo bao did you mention to Concon Bautista that,
Uy, kayo ang nag-uusap ditosi Kim Wong, ikaw at si Philrem?
44
MS. DEGUITO.
Kasi nga
funds.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So let me go back to Philrem.
Philrem, did you know that you were dealingWell, you were
dealing with Ms. Deguito and you know each other, youve been
working for a long time, she never told you that you guys were dealing
with Kim Wong also?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. She didnt mention it was Kim.
SEN. RECTO. So you just believed, face value, to Weikang Xu,
parang ganoon?
45
doing this for 18 years. The safest transaction you can ever do is with
the branch manager kasi hindi ka matatagpuan, siya ang magki-credit
46
transaction
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So you said that you never knew. But then
you delivered the hundred million to Weikang Xu with Mr. Kim Wong
and you had dinner that night. So that was the first time you knew?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, when we delivered the cash and he was
there, his explanation was he was the interpreter of the players. That
was the onlywe didnt know it was his transaction. All he mentioned
was there was his player, theyre getting their money
SEN. RECTO. Gaano katagal na kayong magkakilala?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, socially, we would bumped into each other
because of common friends.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. You never had business before?
MR. BAUTISTA. Never, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. And then after that, he became your visitor
at home?
MR. BAUTISTA. To pick up the money, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Was Mr. Weikang Xu always with him in
picking up the money?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
47
saying?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Where did you get the cash?
MR. BAUTISTA.
48
Okay.
I mean, we
49
SEN. RECTO. that you did not get that from the bank?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we got it from allfrom banks, from
SEN. RECTO. No. Name of the banks.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, I dont think I want to name you the bank
becauseI mean
SEN. RECTO. Why not? Why, you refuse to cooperate with the
Committee?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we have been cooperating since the first
day.
SEN. RECTO. No, but you have been contradicting yourself. In
the first day, Michael, you were not even here.
Okay.
Okay.
In the first
50
Committee that all the deliveries were in Solaire and that she did the
first delivery and that your messengers did not succeed in deliveries.
Thats how it appeared to me, at least. Okay?
In the second hearingI have no question yetin the second
hearing, mayroon nang biglang $18 million, and then always it was Ms.
Deguito giving the instructions, which she denies right now, that she
never gave any instructions, and you were also saying that she gave
the instruction for you to deliver the money to Eastern Hawaii Leisure
Corporation.
Yes, thats the question now.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Hawaii?
MS. BAUTISTA. No, Your Honor.
51
No.
saying all these things that I was excluding on my information and all,
Your Honor, because my legalI already submitted my STR.
I was
52
Iyon lang
Iyong Solaire.
also?
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, that was the first transaction. The
first transaction was merely
SEN. RECTO. Okay, please explain the transaction.
53
So I
Deguito?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Ms.
these?
54
MS. DEGUITO.
Okay.
55
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, wala po. I told you that already, that in the
name of my children, I did not get anything, even a single cent.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Including na pangako?
MS. DEGUITO. Mayroon naman pong pangako, iyon nga, iyong
madadagdagan iyong balance ko in the bank.
SEN. RECTO. Iyong ADB lang. Okay. And ikaw ang nag-decide
na PhilRem.
56
pera, it would appear. And all of these were instructed again by Ms.
Deguito, thats what youre saying, you confirm that?
MR. BAUTISTA.
casino.
February 5 as well?
MS. BAUTISTA. Feb. 5, with whom, sir?
57
SEN. RECTO. AWAL and WeRQuick, mga $11.6 million din iyon.
MS. BAUTISTA. February 5?
SEN. RECTO. Oo.
MS. BAUTISTA. I have to check, Your Honor, parang
SEN. RECTO.
58
SEN. RECTO.
for the $20 million also. And there were series of transactions within
these dates na hindi RCBC naman ang kausap ninyo, iba.
It would
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Sir, no.
Mr. William Go, didnt you testify that you had something to do
with rediscounting with Ms. Deguito?
MR. W. GO.
Deguito sa rediscounting?
MR. W. GO.
Hindi ko po alam.
binibigay
59
SEN. RECTO.
MR. W. GO.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. W. GO.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. W. GO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
60
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
In RCBC?
SEN. RECTO.
Yeah.
Anything significant?
I would be winding up also, Mr. Chairman, just last two points na
lang. I dont want to take much time of the Committee as well.
Hindi naman $18 million?
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
61
SEN. RECTO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
puwede tingnan in other accounts kung posible? Are you doing that?
Are you looking at that?
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
Yes.
SEN. RECTO.
So if it can really be
62
Okay.
here.
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
casinos.
Solaire representative.
Mahalaga din iyong sa casino dito. You have frozen a hundred
seven million.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Kung mayroon
63
SEN. RECTO.
Bangladesh at the very least. Okay. It would appear. You are just
waiting for a court order, right?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
recover this money, to begin with, and for providing the Committee
with the passports, information of all these players.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Nineteen. Im sorry.
Solaire?
Now nahuli ninyo iyong mga taong ito, di ba?
MR. S. TAN.
country?
MR. S. TAN.
64
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
mean?
MR. S. TAN.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
65
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
also, right?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
ninyo and then pina-blotter ninyo. Tama? Kalahati lang iyong ginawa
ninyo.
right?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
10?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Honor?
SEN. RECTO.
66
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
After March 1?
SEN. RECTO.
informed?
MS. ABAD.
SEN. RECTO.
February 11.
67
68
69
MANALASTAS.
Yes,
Your
Honor,
we
started
the
investigation.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
MR. MANALASTAS. And we were awaiting for their reply.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Did they inform you na, Oy, we have a 107
million here. We got 1.3 million in cash. Hey, there are 19 individuals
here in their bedrooms. May ganoon ba? Wala?
MR. MANALASTAS. In their report, they did provide us with the
amounts.
SEN. RECTO. Report lang?
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, but they mentioned the--
70
SEN. RECTO. No, pero may tao naman kayo doon, hindi ba?
May tao kayo doon? You have representatives in all these hotels and
casinos, right?
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Hindi niyo ba napag-usapan iyon na, Oy, ito,
baka ito iyong sa money laundering. Ito iyong mga taong involved.
Hindi ninyo napag-usapan iyan?
MR. MANALASTAS. Wala naBy that time, Your Honor, wala na
iyong mga players.
SEN. RECTO. When you found out?
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. No, at least the head. But your people in the
casino were there for sure.
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, but they didnt know also that
SEN. RECTO. No one from Pagcor knew?
MR. MANALASTAS. that these people were subject of, you
know, any investigation.
SEN. RECTO. So youre saying that no one from Pagcor knew?
MR. MANALASTAS. That they were involved in an investigation?
No, we didnt know.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
71
72
73
yet because its relatively soon. But that is a concern, Mr. Chairman.
74
75
76
77
SEN. RECTO.
hindi ba?
members of the Committee are looking at. I am not saying you should
freeze their account. Hindi ko sinasabi iyon. I am just saying that be
attentive here, and I am sure you are, someone has 17, $18 million. I
mean, if its not with Ms. Bautista, and she is claiming that they gave it
already to Mr. Xu and Mr. Wong, then Mr. Wong has the $18 million,
right? But he is saying it is not true.
So, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you.
At this point, lets give Maia Deguito-SantosMaam, you want
to make a statement so that well give you time. Okay, please proceed.
MS. DEGUITO. The Honorable Chairman and members of the
Blue Ribbon Committee, good afternoon.
First, I wish to apologize for not being here during the hearing of
March 29, 2016. I had wanted to participate in every hearing not only
to air my side but more importantly to help this Committee in my own
humble way to get to the truth of the matter regarding the money of
the Bangladeshi people. My health, however, has taken a turn for the
worse the past two weeks due to the emotional and mental stresses
78
that started since February 9 and which have continued nonstop until
now. But I am now here again presenting myself to you, prepared to
answer any question truthfully to the best of my recollection and within
the extent allowed by my present legal circumstances.
Recently, other resource persons have laid practically all of the
blame on me for the alleged money laundering, as if I had the
resources at my mid-management level to put all the pieces in place
for a crime involving almost 4 billion.
mother.
If there is a conspiracy, as some Honorable Senators have
publicly stated, I have no knowledge of it. If I had made mistakes, it is
this: That I believed and trusted the bank president, Mr. Tan; that I
79
followed him when he said I should take care of his friends; that I
relied on the fact that Mr. Tan could not have been unaware of a
transaction that has been labeled the biggest bank heist in the history
of the world.
I am but a pawn in a high stake chess game played by giants in
international banking and high finance. If this Committee is looking for
the grandmaster, it is not me. The line runs much higher and involves
persons with much more clout and authority than a simple bank
manager with modest capabilities she has.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Deguito.
Could you submit to the Committee your statement, please?
Ms. Deguito, Mr. Kim Wong has said that when the accounts
were openedI am talking to the five accounts that were opened kung
saan pumasok iyong 81that they were
Mr. Kim Wong, instead of me narrating, pakiulit lang kung ano
ang nangyari, iyong pagbukas ng account sa Midas.
MR. WONG. Kasi po palagi po niya akong inaanong mag-open
ng account, mag-refer ako mga customer. So kinausap ko po siya. So
sabi ko may ire-refer ako. Pumunta siya sa Midas po, nandoon si Mr.
80
Gao, kasama siya, nasa labas iyong mga kaibigan niya, nag-usap po
kami. Bubukas ng dollar account, tapos tatlo po kami, nakatayo siya,
tapos sabi niya, Pag dollar, kailangan corporation, isang corporation,
kailangan isang corporation, kailangan limang tao para mabuo isang
corporation.
E, ano ba iyan?
kumain kayo muna sa itaas, ako na ang bahala. Doon sa Midas po.
THE CHAIRMAN. So pinakain mo sila sa taas?
MR. WONG. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tapos anong nangyari?
MR. WONG. Umalis na po ako at tsaka si Gao.
81
Opo.
82
83
And then sabi ko, Under oath, you are saying sa pagkakaalam
mo, walang kinalaman si Mr. Go doon sa account na iyon sa RCBC
Jupiter branch? Sabi niya, I am not sure, Your Honor.
So I just like to clarify, sinabi ni Mr. Pealosa in the previous
hearing na wala ka dito, na ibinibigay niya sa iyo iyong tseke na nirerediscount ni William Go, ipinapasok sa Jupiter branch.
So totoo ba iyon o hindi?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I apologize but Mr. William Go has filed so
many cases against me. And anything about his accountI hope you
understand.
SEN. AQUINO.
84
have
one
been
giving
to
her,
she
is
the
depositing
it
or
otherwise/jun
85
Okay.
Okay.
86
SEN. AQUINO.
hindi?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, no.
SEN. AQUINO. So, for the record, youre saying hindi ito totoo.
Mr. Chairman, maybe we can ask Mr. Pealosa to come back
because lahat itong mga inconsistencies, this becomes the subject of
the
committee
report
and
it
becomes
the
subject
of
the
deposit a check or
SEN. AQUINO.
because if I can read the whole account, its about Mr. Gos account.
So, youre denying that.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
87
the previous hearing that Ms. Deguito and he were part of the
rediscounting of the checks of Mr. Go. I want to clarify that.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, lets have that clarified.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you.
Ms. Deguito, I just want to ask a few questions regarding the
accounts themselves, iyong ating fictitious accounts. Iyong proseso ng
pagbubukas ng account is because they provide documents, tama po
iyon?
88
89
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
account, nagbigay ako ng ID. After a few months, nalaman mo, lets
say, from your compliance na peke iyong ID. What is your next step?
MS. DEGUITO. We should call the account holder.
SEN. AQUINO.
I am
saying you got word, lets say, from your area head or from the
compliance of the mother office, you received the information that the
IDs are fake, hindi totoo, what would you do?
MS. DEGUITO. I think its for the operation to decide on that.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Let me ask RCBC then. If it is proven
maybe, who will answer, Mr. Tan, ah, no, the other Mr. Tan, Raul Tan.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
90
SEN. AQUINO.
So, Mr. Tan, if you find out that the IDs are
holder.
MR. R. TAN. They should close the account.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. What happens to the money inside the
account?
MR. R. TAN. It is issued a managers check, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. To?
MR. R. TAN. Im sorry.
SEN. AQUINO. Who is the managers check
91
Closed
92
SEN. AQUINO.
If its a closed
account, will it still be subject to the bank secrecy law if its already a
closed account?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, if its a closed account.
SEN. AQUINO. Its not.
MR. ESPENILLA. Its no longer a deposit account.
SEN. AQUINO.
We wrote the LTO and showed them the fictitious IDs and they have
written back to us and declared that those IDs are indeed fake. So,
this is a government agency.
93
legal basis for you to close those accounts because they are fictitious
IDs used to open the accounts and with that, I hope that you will now
open up all the records of these accounts because they are declared
they will be declared closed because of the fictitious IDs.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Thank you
for the LTO certification. We are ready to comply with the directive of
Senator Pimentel with respect to the four accounts.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you. So, you are now willing to open up
all the records connected to the fictitious accounts?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
the four accounts.
names of people who may not know that their names were used, but
we are ready to comply with the directive.
William Go accounts.
We sent them a letter last Friday asking for a waiver and we have
again a copy of the request for waiver.
94
95
SEN. AQUINO.
Hindi totoo.
Your Honor. We are waiting for a court order to tell us what to do with
them.
SEN. AQUINO. This is for the 107 million?
MR. S. TAN. Thats correct, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. What about the rest of the money, Mr. Tan?
96
Atty. Ascuna?
MR. ESCAO. No, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. May we request
MR. ESCAO. Atty. Eduardo Escao, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Escao, sorry. May we request the committee
to administer the oath?
Are there other representatives of those two junket operators?
Are they here? Nandito po ba sila para sabay na iyong oath?
97
junket operators.
MR. S. TAN. Yes, thats correct.
SEN. AQUINO. There is another one who is not here, who did
not appear.
MR. S. TAN. Thats correct, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Can we administer the oath, Attorney?
THE CHAIRMAN.
yourself, please.
Speak into the mike, please.
MR. AGUILAR. Good afternoon, Your Honors. I am Atty. Francis
Aguilar. I am the other representative. I was in the gallery.
SEN. AQUINO.
have both.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay, Director General.
MR. QUIMBO.
affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth or nothing but the truth in this
proceeding?
98
[The resource persons who took their oath are Atty. Eduardo C.
Escao, Atty. Francis C. Aguilar and Mr. Adrian Yujuico. All responded
in the affirmative.]
MR. QUIMBO. Thank you.
You may take your seats.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you very much.
Thats Atty. Escao and Atty. Aguilar.
So, we are trying to trace where the money is. So, Atty. Tan said
most of it went to Solaire.
MR. S. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. There are some cash that was recovered.
THE CHAIRMAN. Excuse me, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN. Just for the record, so its clear. Please state
your names and whom you represent.
MR. ESCAO.
99
100
recovered 107, the 903 and the 100 million, kulang pa rin ng mga 200
million.
MR. S. TAN. Three hundred sixty-one was played, Your Honor,
in our premium program.
SEN. AQUINO. And this is still in chips?
MR. S. TAN.
101
MR. S. TAN. No. What they were able to withdraw from using
the play is 278.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MR. S. TAN. So, from us, I think they lost
SEN. AQUINO. Eighty, around 80 million roughly?
MR. S. TAN. Ill have to check exactly, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, 361 minus 278 basically. So, around
80 million.
So, itong 80 million, thats with Solaire na natalo nila, so kinita
ninyo iyan technically?
MR. S. TAN. Yes, Your Honor, subject to the confirmation of the
numbers.
SEN. AQUINO. Itong 278, Atty. Tan, was encashed?
MR. S. TAN. Thats correct, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, thats already in the wild. Nasa ano
na iyankinuha na iyan.
MR. S. TAN. They took it in cash, yes.
SEN. AQUINO.
102
MR. AGUILAR.
103
MR. ESCAO.
panalo. Tama? You cannot confirm right now kung iyong pera intact pa
sa inyo o hindi na?
MR. ESCAO.
104
105
casino operations. Just like what Atty. Tan said, pwedeng nakuha na
in cash?
MR. AGUILAR. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Pwedeng nasa account pa ng junket operator?
MR. AGUILAR. Posible po, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Posible?
MR. AGUILAR. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Who is the
representative of Midas?
MS. NEPOMUCENO. Yes, Your Honor.
106
SEN. AQUINO.
And it was
107
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Okay.
421?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Honor. Meaning to say that has been played already, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Because, Your Honor, after the total deposit of 532 million was
converted to non-negotiable chips, that was played. So in the course
of the play, that amount has already been...
SEN. AQUINO. Played.
MS. NEPOMUCENO. ...played.
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong.
MR. WONG. Sir.
108
SEN. AQUINO.
So
Sa kanila po iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. Pakiulit po iyon. Iyong
MR. WONG.
109
Okay. Ito iyong tanong koIn fairness kay Mr. Wong, practically
lahat ng pumasok sa inyo maibabalik mo, tama ba iyon? O lahat ng
pumasok sa iyo na hindi pumasok sa Midas ibabalik mo sa AMLC?
MR. WONG.
itago pero hindi naman tama, hindi ba, hindi po akin iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Thank you.
MR. WONG.
hindi ba? Tsina-challenge po ako ni Senator Angara po, hindi ba, kung
ibabalik iyon.
May dala po
ako... para
fact when we filed a petition for freeze order with the Court of Appeals,
we included a prayer therein for the Bloomberry to freeze any assets
110
Okay.
Okay.
111
MS. ABAD.
Okay.
mayroong magtsa-challenge?
MS. ABAD. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Who will possibly challenge that?
MS. ABAD.
may file under the rule a verified petition to prove that the money
belongs to him or her, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
In your
112
SEN. AQUINO.
pang money trail iyan, pwede pang ma-recorver iyan at dapat marecover iyan, is that the official stand of the AMLC?
MS. ABAD. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Kasi 900
I mean, in the
normal course of the gaming business, they were played by the people
113
involved.
At the time of the play, we did not know they were dirty
Okay.
talking about the money that is within your system right now.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
What we received
114
Hindi ninyo
pa rin naa-analyze?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
give you the particular amount, but what I am saying is, that amount
that was actually received bysupposedly by Eastern Hawaii from
Philrem is only a partial of the whole transaction that PIKI, the junket
agent of Midas, received for the month of February.
So we have to
115
Part of that
do is recover all of the amount, whether its with Pagcor, whether its
in your casinos, you know, kung nandiyan pa yan, dapat ibalik natin
iyan sa Bangladesh.
Now let me go to our two attorneys. Kayo po, sinabi ninyo
cooperate. What level of cooperation are we talking about?
If it is
116
MR. AGUILAR.
Yes.
Siyempre sa pagpapaliwanag ko sa aking
Okay.
117
MS. ABAD.
to be filed in court.
institutions, kung iko-contest nila yung civil forfeiture ninyo, right away
malalaman ninyo.
SEN. AQUINO.
the doubt, some of them are listed companies, they will wait for a
court order. Ang tanong, iko-contest ba nila yung pera o hindi?
Tama? Will they contest your case? They can contest your case, tama.
MS. ABAD. Yes, they can contest them.
SEN. AQUINO.
speaking for our office and probably other senators, what we would
want is yung mga institution na kung nasaan yung maduming pera, as
118
the court will then make a ruling. Kasi ang tanong po, iko-contest ba
ninyo na inyo dapat yung perang iyan? So my question is, will Pagcor
contest it?
MR. MANALASTAS.
Pesident.
119
SEN. AQUINO.
All right.
Very good.
So at
least si Pagcor may clear instructions na. Yung iba? I hope in the next
hearing we can tackle this.
Mr. Wong, in fairness to you, you are taking the lead in returning
all of the money.
SEN. AQUINO.
P450 million.
But I hope the other institutions will also follow the lead
Salamat.
zeal in pursuing and returningmaking sure that all the monies, all the
money involved is returned to the government of Bangladesh.
Senator Osmea.
SEN. OSMEA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
120
Pagcor,
who
will
speak
for
Pagcor,
Mr.
Manalastas?
Mr.
Manalastas, does Pagcor only accept pesos for conversion into chips or
do you also accept other denominations?
MR. MANALASTAS.
MR. MANALASTAS.
SEN. OSMEA.
Yes, sir.
much of this was exchanged into pesos? Kung kaya naman ng dollars,
di wala ka nang lugi sa transaction cost of foreign exchange, hindi ba?
MR. MANALASTAS.
talking about?
MR. MANALASTAS.
Mr. Kim Wong, bakit pa kailangan i-exchange ang dollars for pesos?
121
Sa amin, casinos, sa
owned, run by Pagcor. Sila lang po ang may peso at saka US dollars.
SEN. OSMEA.
122
SEN. OSMEA.
subrule?
dollar denominated chips but the other casinos not owned by Pagcor or
operated by Pagcor can only use pesos and Hong Kong dollars?
MR. MANALASTAS. It depends on their request, sir. Like, for
example, Solaire, they have dollar chips.
SEN. OSMEA. No, no. I have a very specific question.
So Solaire has dollar chips?
MR. WONG. Ang alam ko, wala po. US dollars? No.
MR. S. TAN. Your Honor
SEN. OSMEA. Who is the Solaireyes.
MR. S. TAN. Your Honor, in Solaire, we only have Hong Kong
dollar tables and peso table. So no US dollars, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Would you like to explain why?
MR. S. TAN. Thats the preference of the players, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. The preference of the players is to gamble in
Hong Kong dollars rather than in US dollar.
MR. S. TAN. Thats correct, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. And you dont know why.
MR. S. TAN. Thats correct, Your Honor.
123
tables po
SEN. OSMEA. Bakit kaya ganoon?
MR. WONG. Kasi para wala na hong palitan.
SEN. OSMEA.
Iyon na nga.
Pag
124
from the Court of Appeals. First was obtained on March 1 and this
covers the accounts of, first, the four account holders and then the
account of Eastern Hawaii Leisure, and then also the account of Mr.
Kim Wong.
SEN. OSMEA. Where is the account of Mr. Kim Wong? Akala
ko iyong account niya Eastern Hawaii.
MS. ABAD.
No.
SEN. OSMEA.
125
All right.
126
MS. ABAD.
Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Can you name the branches?
MS. ABAD. This is with RCBC Greenhills, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Dalawang accounts, both were with the
Greenhills branch of RCBC.
MS. ABAD. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. And how much was in the account?
MS. ABAD. The first account has around P6,858, Your Honor.
And the secondSorry, Your Honor.
The first account has just P54.95 and the second account has
SEN. OSMEA. Fifty-four pesos?
MS. ABAD.
No, because
127
MR. BAUTISTA.
order. Our accounts were actually first closed by the bank. And then
when they received the freeze order, they froze the closed account.
That was the complaint she mentioned in the first hearing.
SEN. OSMEA. Im saying that when they froze the account,
when the AMLC ordered to freeze your account, you only had P29,000
and change left in those accounts.
accounts.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, AMLC did not issue a freeze order on our
accounts. RCBC froze our accounts.
SEN. OSMEA. RCBC
MR. BAUTISTA. After closing the account. They closed it first.
SEN. OSMEA. You close it first and then you freeze it.
MR. BAUTISTA. They closed it first and then they froze it after.
SEN. OSMEA.
If they closed an
sir, stated
128
SEN. OSMEA. How much was in the account when they closed
the account?
MR. BAUTISTA. Actually, sir, thats another problem we have
with
SEN. OSMEA. Never mind. How much was in the account?
MR. BAUTISTA.
account? RCBC?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, if they give me a
written waiver of their accounts, Ill discuss everything, all the
questions.
SEN. OSMEA.
You write on a
napkin
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
129
Im so sorry.
FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Weve
submitted
the
million today.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
number.
At
It
130
referring to my notes and I was just given the correct note, Your
Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
cases?
MS. ABAD. For civil cases, we have filed around a hundred
cases.
SEN. OSMEA. And for criminal?
MS. ABAD. Your Honor, as to criminal cases/jbc
131
MS. ABAD.
how long have you known the officers of Philrem or how long have you
been dealing with Philrem, how many years?
MS. DEGUITO.
in the bank, that was 15, 16 years ago. But have started dealing with
them I think for the last 10 years.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Is Philrem the only remittance company
you use?
MS. DEGUITO.
132
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. DEGUITO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.
of the account.
133
MS. DEGUITO.
ng account. Sinabi ni Mr. Kim Wong na--okay, he may have asked you
to open accounts but in the name of--sino iyon?
Si Gao at si Ding,
SEN. OSMEA.
Mr. Kim Wong did not own the accounts yet you were receiving
instructions from him on how to dispose of the monies that go through
those accounts, parang siya ang may-ari noon?
MS. DEGUITO.
that from the start po kasi it was him who referred to me those people
so its him being-SEN. OSMEA.
account, you will be taking orders from me on how to deal with the
monies in that account, ganoon ba iyon?
MS. DEGUITO.
134
SEN. OSMEA.
quite understand.
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I understand what you are saying.
It is not
You did?
MS. DEGUITO.
that was testified to in earlier hearings that there was also 200 million
that was supposed to be-MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.
business, Ms. Deguito, how much dollars, cash will you keep in your
branch?
MS. DEGUITO.
135
SEN. OSMEA.
out of the 81, per our records, per their testimonies at least $17
million was cash, hindi ba?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, Your Honor, there were no actual cash
withdrawals.
SEN. OSMEA.
Okay.
MS. DEGUITO.
Philrem, how long will it take you to accumulate $18 million in cash?
Can you do it in one day?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. OSMEA.
$18 million?
MS. BAUTISTA.
One week.
SEN. OSMEA.
the transaction. Are you saying for the dailyfor the day?
136
SEN. OSMEA.
to you $18 million in cash and I say, Mrs. Bautista, give to me the
$18 million by telegraph transfer and I request to you, Mrs. Bautista,
bigyan mo akong dollarscash, how long will it take you to
accumulate $18 million?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. OSMEA.
One day?
Yes.
Basta telegraphic transfer lang?
Basta ho fund transfer and clear funds iyong
Okay.
MS. BAUTISTA.
137
Ms. Deguito and Mr. Lorenzo Tan. When an amount like $81 million is
transmitted to your bank, dont you normally receive forwarding
instructions from the remitter or from the beneficiary that they wanted
this exchanged for pesos. How long will it take you to accumulate the
pesos involved? In this case about 3.7 billion, for example.
MR. L. TAN.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
138
senior executives of the bank would have been alerted right away?
MR. R. TAN. Most likely, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. And you would have rejected it?
MR. R. TAN. Well, we would have probably asked the remitter
for
SEN. OSMEA. To?
MR. R. TAN. To verify what this is all about.
139
SEN. OSMEA. Yeah, thats what I was trying to ask in the past
three hearings. At what point do your alarm bell start ringing in your
bank? $81 million walang kakuwenta-kuwenta iyan even if the amount
was going to for, and we can admit now, fictitious accounts which were
not active in the first place, and there was no underlying obligation,
services or trade contract subject of the money. But you say that that
$850 million you would have rejected. You would have at least called
the remitter, in this case Bangladesh Bank, and asked them to verify if
this amount were really coming from them and to what purpose, di
ba? Ganoon talaga.
MR. R. TAN. Most likely, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right.
So were looking for an amount now between 850 or 950
actually, all in all, and $81 million.
warning?
140
Bancod, Mr. Chairman, and may we ask him to take his oath if he has
not already taken his oath.
THE CHAIRMAN. Please, for the record, state your name and
your position at RCBC.
SEN. OSMEA.
141
142
More or less.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, at the end of day
of February 5, it was only $22.7 million that had been withdrawn. So
81 less 22, 23, was about 58 or 59 million.
SEN. OSMEA.
Philrem.
143
the remittances come in, there is a threshold that weve said before.
And because weve opened up four accounts, well discuss it.
The threshold was P1 billion.
and in this case two accounts breached that threshold, there are
human eyes that see it. But in this case, since the branch have had
several transactions already big, it was not so unusual at that point. If
it were one amount, for example $81 million that entered, human eyes
would have seen it and it would have triggered an alert. Since there
was no alert at the start, at the end of day our remittance department
called the retail banking group which is where the branches are, and
they asked what these amounts were because taken together, they
seemed unusually large.
been withdrawn. At that point, a series of calls were made and Maia
144
Deguito took the call and said, These are my long standing clients. I
have been waiting for these funds for over a year, and their KYC, their
documents for account opening forms were all set. All arranged.
There was series of approvals and the hold was lifted on the
basis of that on February 5.
On February 9 is a different matter, and thats when the first of
the requests for freeze came.
Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
order
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, we did.
SEN. OSMEA. on the account on Friday.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. We did, Your Honor. It was
SEN. OSMEA. And you released it on Tuesday, the following
working day?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. We released it in the evening of
February 5 because
SEN. OSMEA. Ah, in the same day.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes.
145
SEN. OSMEA.
Okay.
Did you
All right.
146
FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
We
sent
it
through
the
147
SEN. OSMEA.
accounts were fake or not and RCBC took a very strong position that
they had to respect the Bank Secrecy Law and the possibility that
these were not fake accounts.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
real.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
So, we
wanted to rule out any possible claimants and that is why we caused
the advertising that you saw in the two newspapers over two days.
We wanted to rule out all these possible claimants.
SEN. OSMEA.
148
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
a Mr. Lagrosas turns up, same name and say, Thats me. What are
you going to do now?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes. Well, we would probably
submit him to the AMLC so they could send him--so that they could
hold him accountable for the money laundering case that they filed.
Yes.
SEN. OSMEA.
149
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
The other
150
SEN. OSMEA.
Bank to sign?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. We confirm and reiterate that the Bangladesh
Bank is claiming ownership over the funds diverted to the following
beneficiary accounts. And there is the...
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Yes.
are claiming. So, it is really like alleged in that sense, Your Honor. Its
the claim.
SEN. OSMEA.
the second paragraph, as owner of the funds that had been diverted.
And a third time in the last sentence, the Blue Ribbon Committees
investigation into the funds diverted from the Bangladesh Bank.
So, this letter is just a formality. You have already decided to
accept that these are the funds that belong to the people of
Bangladesh.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
151
SEN.
OSMEA.
Anyway,
youve
been
assured
by
the
Was this
chart?
SEN. OSMEA.
Certainly.
152
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
with the specific chart. I am very familiar with the flow. I can discuss
the flow but to refer to this chart would be difficult for me.
I can
discuss the flow very well but I am not familiar with this chart.
SEN. OSMEA.
havent seen the final draft and I am very comfortable to discuss the
details, Your Honor, using-SEN. OSMEA.
153
Same?
Okay.
Kim Wong.
MS. BAUTISTA.
interpreter as he says.
154
SEN. OSMEA.
please?
MR. WONG. Sir, puwede po--ano po ang tanong ninyo po dito?
SEN. OSMEA.
mo, huh, iyong third line, Beneficiaries are Weikang Xu, 38 percent;
Eastern Hawaii, 26 percent; at Bloomberry, 36 percent.
Iyong
one billion?
MR. WONG.
All right.
155
156
Gao at Ding.
157
Huh?
million at saka yong 80 million po, ang sabi ni Gao ilagay doon kay
Weikang Xu. Kasi po si Weikang Xu player ni Gao sa Midas.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. So, ngayon ang sinasabi po ninyo it was
Weikang Xu that received the first $22 million.
158
the orders? It was Maia who told Philrem, I-deliver mo iyan kay
Weikang Xu. Ganun ba, Maia--Ms. Deguito?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I have answered that already. I dont know
Weikang Xu po.
SEN. OSMEA. I am not asking if you know Weikang Xu. I am
asking did you give an instruction to deliver it to Weikang Xu.
MS. DEGUITO. The instructions given to me were just to
transfer funds from the beneficiaries to William Go to Philrem. As to
the cash delivery, sir, I have no knowledge. There was an instruction
to transfer funds to Bloomberry, Eastern Hawaii which I relayed to
Philrem. But as to cash-SEN. OSMEA. So you never gave instructions to Philrem to
deliver to anybody else except Bloomberry?
159
160
161
wala akong
162
MR. GO. ID. Gumawa sila ng fake na ID ko. Ang mukha, hindi
ho ako ito. And pagkatapos, at the same time iyong inisyu na ID
February 5, 2016, it was a dollar account naman.
SEN. OSMEA. February 5 na?
MR. GO. Oo. Inisyu iyong license.
SEN. OSMEA. On the very same day that the dollars came in?
MR. GO. Yes, Your Honor. Tapos, at the same time po may
nakatatak sa ibaba original seal, nakapirma ho si Angela Torres.
February
vinerify(verify)
vinerify(verify)
iyong
iyong
account
account.
February
1,
samantalangFebruary
2016
1
163
SEN. OSMEA. Amazing. Alam mo, Mr. Go, hindi klaro dito
iyong mga signature card. Could we have a new copy? Hindi, kumuha
ka muna sa opisina mo. Tingnan mo, wala. Ano ang mababasa namin?
MR. GO. Hindi. Peke ho iyan yata. Mayroon ako dito na galing
sa RCBC na original na signature card. Ang RCBC ho pwedeng
magbigay. Mayroon silang kopya ng original na signature card ko po.
SEN. OSMEA. May we have the signature card, please, of-MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, Your Honor.
MR. GO.
transaction tickets/jad
164
SEN. OSMEA.
tickets using BDO, Banco de Oro. The date would be February 10, 200
million; February 10, 190 million; February 10, 100 million; February
10, another 100 million; and February 10, again, 210 millionthese
total 740 million. Were you the ones that submitted this? These are
known as transaction tickets.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. OSMEA.
165
Mr. Bautista, could you supply the full name, if you have not, full
name and the address of your messenger, the one who is sick today?
MR. BAUTISTA.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Yes, sir.
committee secretary.
THE CHAIRMAN.
account with your bank, thank you letters are sent. Am I correct?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes.
166
THE CHAIRMAN.
committee if the thank you letters for the four or five accounts were
returned because of wrong address?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
accounts, four were returned and the branch manager, Maia Deguito,
Angela Torres, the CSH; and the immediate superior of Maia was
advised by email of the return of four of the five accountsthe
Lagrosas, Vasquez, Cruz and Picache. The Vergara account, the letter
did not return.
THE CHAIRMAN.
was
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Via email?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. DEQUITO.
Via email.
nothing that we received from the email, that there are thank you
letters were returned. Otherwise, it will be sent to the branch for us to
167
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
received her emails for the Lagrosas account, the return to sender, on
June 3, 2015; for the Vasquez account on August 20, 2015; for the
Cruz account on June 16, 2015; and for the Picache account on June 3,
2015. Its in our system, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Honor, about
THE CHAIRMAN.
2016.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Deguito?
MS. DEQUITO.
answer already.
I have been pulled out from Jupiter February 12. I was given a
memo to directly report to the district heads starting February 15 but I
168
failed to report. SoI went back to work February 16 and I was given
the preventive suspension. So since that time, I have no access to my
email.
Wong?
MS. BAUTISTA.
169
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
million, and $6 million and another 100 million. So six million plus 3.5,
9.5 million, and 200 million, right?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes.
you delivered money to Weikang Xu and Mr.
Okay.
MS. BAUTISTA. The 12th and the 13th ang wala ho si Mr. Wong.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
170
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Wala po.
171
SEN. RECTO.
Naibigay
ninyo, thats what youre saying, not in the presence of Kim Wong.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Sorry.
MR. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
confirm that at least in four occasions you were there noong dineliver
(deliver) yung pera kasama mo si Weikang Xu?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Hindi po.
So never mo nakasama si Weikang Xu?
Never po.
172
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
lang po mag-isa.
SEN. RECTO.
SEN. RECTO.
up sa bahay nila?
MR. WONG.
Opo.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Ikaw mismo?
Opo, at saka mga tao ko po.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
SEN.
RECTO.
Mayroon
bang
pinapirmahan
sa
iyo,
acknowledgment receipt?
MR. WONG.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
Wala?
MR. WONG.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
173
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Sir, ano po ang tanong ninyo dito?
Noong nag-pick up ka ng pera sa kanila sa
bahay nila, sinasabi mo wala si Weikang Xu, ikaw ang pumick (pick)
up hindi ba? Ikaw ba yung nakapirma diyan?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
Hindi po.
Ngayon mo lang nakita yung dokumentong iyan?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
Ngayon lang?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Opo.
Okay. Kilala mo yung Weikang Xu?
Kilala ko po.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Hindi ko po ano.
Okay.
174
SEN. RECTO.
Oo.
Iwan saan?
Sa Eastern Hawaii po.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
MR. WONG.
Si Gao po.
So
Kay Maia?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
175
SEN. RECTO.
SEN. RECTO.
SEN. RECTO.
given to you and you relayed the instructions to Philrem, ibigay yung
one billion sa Eastern Hawaii, ibigay yung 1.3 billion roughly, more or
less, to Bloomberry.
At
176
MS. DEGUITO.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Concon, that Maia did instruct you to remit through the bank yung
PNB, Eastern Hawaii?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
177
SEN. RECTO.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
admit this in the first few hearings na si Mr. Wong was always present
in Solairethe first time, in Solaire andThank you, Mr. Attorney.
Thats fine with me. Dont worry.and in Solaire and in the house.
You never mentioned also, its only now that I looked at the
documents, it would appear thatparang lumalabas laging Mr. Wong
was there as an interpreter.
Thats how it
appears, huh.
MS. BAUTISTA.
just like to
SEN. RECTO.
Eighty million dollars did enter your account. We know the 61 went to
the casinos. Then na-withdraw, one way or the other, as you try to
178
And Mark
signed all of these and he is not here today. Suddenly maysakit, hindi
ba? Thats how it looks like here.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Excuse me.
Ms. Salud, could you just give a verbal response, for the record?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. YUJUICO.
SEN. RECTO.
in Forbes?
MR. YUJUICO.
suggested my house and thats the only connection I have with the
meeting
SEN. RECTO.
179
MR. YUJUICO.
SEN. RECTO.
SEN. RECTO.
kay Maia na they used your residence daw to bribe other officers of
the bank?
MR. YUJUICO.
SEN. RECTO.
accounts?.../sglr
180
know how they said na ako po iyon. I wanted to have a copy. Sana
makita ko talaga iyong ID just to prove its me.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Yes.
RCBC, in which account does his picture come out with?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
out in the Lagrosas account which had $30 million, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. And he works with RCBC?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Hes a reserve officer and he
SEN. RECTO. What does that mean? What is a reserve officer?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Hes not assigned to a specific
branch.
February 5 in the morning while they were waiting for the remittances
to come in Adrian Yujuico was in the branch together with Maia
Deguito, so we
SEN. RECTO. Yes. Adrian, is that true, on February 5 in the
morning, were you in the branch that day?
MR. YUJUICO.
181
Feb. 5.
SEN. RECTO. February 5, okay, got it. Yes.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
have the affidavit of Romulo Agarrado saying that he was in the house
of Adrian Yujuico when the P5 million bribe was made.
SEN. RECTO. Yes, we are familiar with that.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
182
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
RCBC?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
branch, the regular audit, one of the findings there was the account of
Lagrosas.
183
Torres
184
SEN. RECTO.
I have a
185
Solaire.
So we also do not
They didnt
Well, I personally
186
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. So dapat nakita na iyon.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
all the accounts. And these accounts were not pulled out. May I just
say the accountsthe documents were pulled out February 10, when
Maia Deguito was in the branch.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Okay. Who were the other?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
187
the three.
SEN. RECTO. So, only two?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Yeah.
188
189
SEN. AQUINO. Can you give us the original ones? Because the
ones that the Committee has medyo, to be very honest, medyo
blurred na siya.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
originals with me but I have clearer copies than what you might have.
SEN. AQUINO.
please?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
SEN. AQUINO.
All right.
190
At saka ikaw.
kayo.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. AQUINO.
191
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. May I ask Ms. Maia, iyong mga kasama
mo ba will they testify na iyong limang tao nandoon na kasama mo
with Mr. Wong?
MS. DEGUITO.
Japanese restaurant.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
restaurant na iyan.
So, they were waiting in the Japanese restaurant for you?
MS. DEGUITO.
Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
192
SEN. AQUINO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. AQUINO.
meet sila, na-meet niya iyong limang tao, binigay iyong mga
dokumentotama, hindi ba?at dala-dala niya doon sa kainan. That
is right?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. AQUINO.
ninyo on that day that these accounts were first brought up, dala-dala
nga niya iyong mga folder na may mga ID at may mga bank
documents?
MR. YUJUICO.
true.
193
SEN. AQUINO.
Sumunod ka lang?
MR. YUJUICO.
Iyong iba po
SEN. AQUINO.
MS. DEGUITO.
Okay.
SEN. AQUINO.
Ms. Torres, if you can come to the mike. You were present in
thisLunch ba ito o dinner, Ms. Deguito?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. AQUINO.
Dinner po.
You were present in this dinner, hindi ba, Ms.
Torres?
MS. TORRES.
SEN. AQUINO.
MS. TORRES.
SEN. AQUINO.
[Inaudible]
Please repeat.
Yes, Your Honor.
Oo. Late pumasok si Ms. Deguito kasi kausap
194
SEN. AQUINO.
ng mga dokumento?
MS. TORRES.
am sure nakita mo rin iyong files because you were the assistant of
Ms. Deguito, hindi ba?
MS. TORRES.
SEN. AQUINO.
physically?
MS. TORRES.
No.
SEN. AQUINO.
SEN. AQUINO.
Wala.
195
MR. WONG.
SEN. AQUINO.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
SEN. AQUINO.
Deguito?
MR. WONG.
Hindi ko
SEN. AQUINO.
196
So, you are saying, Mr. Wong, nagkita kayo nung mga staff
nakita ka nung mga staff ni Ms. Deguito?
MR. WONG.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
Hindi mo matandaan.
Kasi kapag hindi ko ho kausap, wala nga po
iyonghindi ko ho pinapasok.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
mayroon ba kayong CCTV of that day? This is May ito, ano, May 2015?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
SEN. AQUINO.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
SEN. AQUINO.
197
recordings.
SEN. AQUINO.
Thank you.
Iyong
doon?
198
MR. WONG.
Pero
Okay.
Your Honor, on March 31, Mr. Kim Wong, through his lawyer,
Atty. Inocencio Ferrer, delivered to our office cold cash in the amount
199
letter of the lawyer of Mr. Kim Wong just said, For safekeeping, not
for turnover to the Bangladesh government.
200
MS. ABAD.
THE CHAIRMAN.
(surrender)
pera,
ibalik
na
sa
Bangladesh
government?
MR. WONG.
sa iyo
MR. WONG.
Okay po ako.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. WONG.
Okay ka na ibigay?
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes.
201
MR. FERRER.
Okay.
202
MR. FERRER.
203
Ang
Iyon
Ferrer, there is a process and well let AMLC handle the process. But
we also like to hear if Mr. Kim Wong, the person who handed over the
funds, the processor of the fundslets call him processor of the
fundshas no objection, notwithstanding the fact that if AMLC finds it
fit that they should go through the legal process, then they shall do so.
But I think what they really just want is a categorical consent.
MR. FERRER.
Kim Wong will give him the advice. Its a very technical, legal matter
and as legal counsels, well be the ones giving him advice on this
matter, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Senator Enrile.
204
SEN. ENRILE.
even the Senate can compel any citizen of this country to surrender
anything to anybody until the courts of this Republic will say so.
THE CHAIRMAN.
compelling.
request of AMLC that they just want to get the consent of Mr. Kim
Wong. The comments of Atty. Ferrer as to a legal process, as I said,
are well-taken.
SEN. ENRILE.
Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Senator Aquino.
205
issue, we just would like to make it clear that we are not compelling
we are not compelling Mr. Kim Wong to answer in any way yes or
no. Its just that there is a question by AMLC whether they have the
consent of Mr. Kim Wong.
Now, if you dont want to answer that, thats your prerogative.
But Id like to repeat that this is in no way should be construed as to
be compelling you to answer in one way or another. Am I clear?
SEN. ENRILE.
present when the Committee asked Mr. Kim Wong whether he would
surrendersurrender the amount in his possession and I appeal to the
records to find out whether that statement is correct.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
206
because you havent filed a case yet. So as long as you havent filed a
case yet, any transfer is between private parties, tama po?
MS. ABAD.
that its best with Bangladesh but I think the lawyers of Mr. Wong are
asking for some time to advise their client properly which were giving
207
SEN. AQUINO.
contest the transfer of the money, then that money can be transferred
because if they dont contest it, then its up to the courts already to
make the decision.
MS. ABAD.
Wong is willing to turn it over now, then we need not go through the
legal process of filing a petition for civil forfeiture.
We can dispense
with the petition for civil forfeiture if Mr. Kim Wong would manifest his
willingness to turn over the money to the Bangladesh government at
this moment, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
advise their client properly and we will give them that due. But I think
your request is also very clear to Mr. Wong. If this is returned in good
faith, then we can return it. But I think, Attorney or E.D., filing the
civil forfeiture case will really move things along because then we will
see who will contest and who will not contest. Pag hindi nila i-contest,
ibig sabihin, talagang ibinibigay na nila iyan sa Bangladesh but if other
208
parties are going to contest that, then ibig sabihin noon, they claim
that money as theirs.
court. Nasa atin na po iyan, on the government side to file the cases
as soon as possible para malaman na natin kung sino iyong magkocontest talaga at hindi magko-contest noong pera.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Does this mean this isYoure the ones who drafted this
documentbrhg
209
210
So what does this mean then, this receipt. Its just a receipt,
thats it.
MS. ABAD. Yes, its just an acknowledgment of receipt, Your
Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. So it cannot be construed as a turnover of
funds to the Bangladesh government?
MS. ABAD. Although effectively, Your Honor, the Bangladesh
government through the Honorable Ambassador has-THE CHAIRMAN. Signed.
MS. ABAD. Since he signed the acknowledgment receipt,
effectively the money has been turned over to the Bangladesh
government, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. I see.
MS. ABAD. He acknowledged receipt also.
THE CHAIRMAN. So youre saying it has been turned over
although the possession is still with you?
MS. ABAD. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Physical possession is still with you.
MS. ABAD. Physical possession is still with us.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
211
212
213