Singapore, 29th Sept, 15

DIVINE SATSANG
Macau, 3rd Oct, 15

Divine Satsang
Singapore 29th September, 2015
Macau 3rd October, 2015
Divine Discourses
By Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba
In the Subtle Body

COPYRIGHT

Copyright Sri Sathya Sai Premamruta Prakashana , Sathya Sai Grama, Muddenahalli,
Chikkaballapur Taluk and District 562101, Karnataka, India.
This Booklet contains material protected under Union and International Copyright Laws and
Treaties. Any unauthorised reprint or use of this material is prohibited. No part of this booklet
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All rights reserved.
November 2015.
1

Table of Contents
Page
29th September 2015
Introduction to Singapore Visit

Morning Session at Sai Anandam

1. Report on Presentations at Guru Vikas Conference
2. Divine Discourse at the launch of Guru Vikas
3. Question & Answer Session

4
7
15

Evening Session at Sai Anandam

1. Summary of talk by Father Charles Ogada
2. Summary of talk by Sri C. Sreenivas
3. Evening Divine Discourse
4. Question & Answer Session

27
28
29
35

3rd October 2015

1. Introduction to Macau Visit
2. Summary of talk by Sri B. N. Narasimha Murthy
3. Divine Discourse
4. Question & Answer Session

41
43
45
49

Introduction to Singapore Divine Visit, 29th September, 2015

Singapore was the third leg of the Divine Asia - Pacific tour. This was the sixth visit of our
Beloved Lord continuing His Divine Romance with Singapore. We are eternally grateful to
The Lord for having chosen Singapore to be the stepping stone for all His visits to the Asia Pacific.
Three of the entourage stayed at Sai Anandam, the first of the 17 Ashrams which Swami is
establishing around the world for Prema Sai and the upliftment of humanity. The rest of the
group were accommodated at homes of Sai devotees in Singapore.
The next day (29th September, 2015) was the
inaugural event launching the GURU VIKAS
Movement (a unique mission of developing
and training Teachers) on a world-wide scale.
Twenty-eight individuals from 12 countries
were handpicked by Our Lord to attend the
first ever GURU VIKAS Conference in
Singapore. An excerpt of the various speakers
at the conference is included in this report.
The Supreme Teacher of Teachers BHAGAWAN SRI SATHYA SAI BABA then gave the
GURU VIKAS Discourse. It was a full day as Swami gave interviews after the Discourse and
then visited the home of an ardent devotee, Brother R Yugumaran and his family.
The evening Satsang commenced at 4.45 pm. More than 300 devotees had gathered at Sai
Anandam to meet their Beloved Lord and hear Him fill their hearts with bliss yet again.
Swamis Discourse was preceded by short talks by Father Charles Ogada from Nigeria and C
Sreenivas, the Managing Trustee of the Sri Sathya Sai Health and Education Trust.
After Arathi Swami called all the overseas Gurus and lovingly spoke to each of them before
leaving for dinner at the home of another ardent devotee, Dr. Ganesan Naidu.
Swami took Arathi and left Singapore on the morning of 30th September. We were filled
with a heavy heart on His departure and eagerly await His return to our shores soon. Swami
subsequently travelled to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia to bless His devotees. On 2nd October,
some of Swamis entourage left KL for Bhagawans visit to Macau.
This digital booklet is a collection of events, excerpts of talks and Bhagawan Sathya Sai
Babas Discourses in Singapore on Tuesday, the 29th September and in Macau on Saturday
3rd October, 2015.

Lovingly offered at Dear Bhagawans Lotus Feet

3

Report on Various Presentations at the Inaugural Guru Vikas Conference

29th September 2015, Sai Anandam, Singapore
Welcome by Bhuvana Santhanam, Organising Chairperson of the Guru Vikas Conference
It is a historical day with the launch of the Guru Vikas initiative by Bhagawan. Swami has
remarked that this will become a very big worldwide initiative. This Guru Vikas initiative
started in May 2015 in Kodaikanal and Swami had guided us to this very important day.
As a remedy to the plight of poor parenting, Bhagawan had given the gift of Guru Vikas a
comprehensive value based train-the-trainer programme. With this, thousands of children will
get transformed for generations to come by teachers who will be extra strong and act as a
catalyst in the process of modification and transformation.
On the Guru Vikas logo and its significance, Swami
had instructed that it should have the sun and a
gesture of two hands in namaskar. Swami said, "A
Guru is like the sun who removes the darkness or
ignorance by selflessly burning himself or herself out.
It's only by sacrifice that one can teach love." The logo
was developed under Bhagawans Divine guidance.

Introduction by Sri B. N. Narasimha Murthy

Swami even in His Subtle Form works tirelessly to ease the pain and suffering of others.
Apart from Swamis infinite love and compassion for everyone is His bleeding heart. Many a
times, Swami was moved to tears during His physical form, talking about the sufferings of
others. When Swami launched Grama Seva in Puttarparthi in 2000, He broke down saying,
Do you know what prompted Me to undertake this Grama Seva? A poor helpless woman in
a village committed suicide because she could not feed her children. Sri Narasimha Murthy
urged all to develop such a sensitive heart, saying the first thing any chosen instrument of
Swami has to develop is such a kind of heart, which feels that all children are mine. Now
Swami has no body, so all our bodies are His, and we need to be available to Him whenever
He needs us.
Sri Narashima Murthy ended by saying we should be very clear in our mind that without
devotion to God, without Sathya Sai, the God who has come to this world to rescue it there is
no education in human values. Devotion to God is the first thing and then you can teach about
the human values. Swami will guide on the syllabus for the Guru Vikas. Referring to the
assembled educators, he quoted the words of Jesus Christ, You are the salt of the earth,
because Swami has chosen you as His instruments to bring about a silent revolution in the
world - to change the elders through children. That is the revolution. To change those
children, we need committed teachers. That is where our requirements are.
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Presentation by Dr. Jeanne Lilly, psychologist & contemplative life coordinator, U.S.A.
Sister Jeanne said she was doing the presentation on behalf of Rita and Robert Bruce. Rita
Bruce is the author, of several books. She presented the methodology described in Love of
Conscience and urged all to get a copy of the book. It explains the four aspects of human
nature and parenting and how they come together to develop and transform oneself and
therefore, the children. Baba had told Rita to write Love of Conscience and gave the title of
the book. Swami had said The proper study of mankind is man, and the book is the proper
study of man. He had told Rita that it came from the Vedas.
When Sister Rita Bruce had the manuscript of the book ready and was asking for blessings
from Swami, a clove mysteriously appeared in the manuscript. Sister Rita Bruce knew the
clove meant something, as Swami never does anything without a reason. She silently asked
Swami, Why the clove? What is the message You are trying to give me? He replied within,
The stem of the clove is symbolic of the root, the Divine source of all energy, which is God.
This root splits into four prongs that represent the four energies, four pillars, four corners on
which the world sits. The round ball in the middle of the clove is symbolic of the world.
These four energies support the world. The very meaning of the word clove is c-love, which
means conscious love. This clove is symbolic of the knowledge that you will learn about.
The four aspects of energies are emotional, physical, intellectual and discrimination. When
perfected, each of these becomes a human value. With emotion, it motivates us to take action,
so when God is acting through us and we know we are not the doers, we achieve peace
(shanti). The physical body and senses are about protecting us from harm. In pursuit of our
desires we often do harm to others. When we eliminate selfishness and desire goodness for
all, we achieve non-violence (ahimsa). When intellect is perfected and ignorance is gone, we
know the truth of our own divinity. Discrimination is about making judgments about what to
do, and when we perfect this energy, we have right conduct (dharma).
These four aspects also relate to the four steps of action, thought, words, deeds and
consequence. Conscious love means to be continuously aware of our words, thoughts, and
deeds. If we are conscious of the four energies within us and the programs that are created by
them, we have an expanded understanding of what is happening within ourselves. Then we
can transform our negative qualities into positive ones. The result is conscious love. The
ultimate consequence is that we become vessels of love.

Presentation by Dr. Ron & Suwanti Farmer, clinical psychologists and educators,
Australia
Dr. Ron and Sister Suwanti (Su for short) have been involved in Human Values education
since 1985. They are founding directors of the Toogoolawa School in Australia, which
provides full-time Human Values education for boys and have been training parents and
teachers of the Sathya Sai primary schools in Australia in Human Values education. They are

currently writing a handbook titled, The Mindful Teacher in Human Values Education,
Scientifically Grounded Teaching Strategies for a Meaningful Life, under Swamis direction.
In Australia, recently, Swami announced the setting up of a teachers training institute, saying
many will graduate from this institute and will go and teach in schools. They have developed
and run a comprehensive training approach in motivating teachers to implement human
values in the educational system. Swami had asked them to address two main issues (a) how
to bring about the transformation in the teachers, and (b) how teachers can impart and bring
out these values in the children. This eight-part program is equivalent to post-graduate
training in Australia.
The first module is to introduce people to the principles of human value education and to
understand what lies ahead of them. Experiential techniques are used, including guided
imagination, brainstorming and journaling. The second looks at strategies in human value
education for children. It draws on research on values education (also known as character
education). The third module is on brain emotional learning, to help people understand how
to do work on themselves. The fourth is human values in curriculum, which covers research
findings on various education systems and assesses what were the requirements for the best
outcome, in terms of childrens well-being, teachers well-being, academic proficiency, and
so on. The fifth module is about mindfulness teaching, which leads teachers into many
different ways of experiencing being in the presence in the moment. The sixth module is on
nurturing teacher well-being. The seventh and eight modules are teacher evaluation and
teaching material development respectively.

Presentation by Brother Sunil Naidu and Sister Sangita Naidu, Australia

The last presentation was on the Human Transformation methodology of Dr. Art-Ong Jumsai
and Sister Lorraine Burrows from Thailands Institute of Human Values. Their
methodology has been adopted in 24 countries. Brother Sunil and Sister Sangita spent almost
two years under the guidance of Dr. Art-Ong Jumsai, who has been an inspirational living
master to both of them, with regard to the transformation of the teachers and students. Sister
Sangita has a post-graduate degree in education, and has been involved with research along
with her husband, Brother Sunil, in the Sathya Sai Education in Human Values for the last 15
years. They shared their journey as trained teachers on the training in Thailand with their
daily activities at the school in Thailand.

Divine Discourse at the launch of Guru Vikas Programme

29th September, 2015, Sai Anandam, Singapore
Bhagawan Baba visited Singapore to launch the Guru Vikas programme amongst the chosen
Bal Vikas gurus from various parts of the world. Below is His Divine discourse, during the
morning session, on the occasion of the Guru Vikas - teacher training programme.
I do not have any presentation to show. (Laughter) I don't have secretaries to make
presentations for Me. I only know one technique of teaching: Whatever is in My heart, that is
what I speak. And whatever is in the heart comes to My head, and that is what comes through
My mouth and through My hands. I know of no other way of talking and teaching like all of
you eminent trainers and teachers. I dropped out of school when I was only a boy. (Laughter)
So what I can, I teach the teachers here. You are all very learned people. You all have been to
many parts of the world to attend many training programmes. Therefore, theres really not
much that I can tell you, except for a few points of advice that you may choose to follow
accordingly.
When I was a young boy, schools in villages were very poor. They did not have
infrastructure. They did not have benches and tables. They did not even provide meals to the
students. They did not have modern gadgets like the ones which are used now in schools.
Even the teachers were very simple.
Yet, amidst all these things, one thing that I remember even today are My teachers and the
love and affection with which they looked after the children. Even when they punished, they
punished out of sincere concern for the welfare of the child and nothing else, and not out of
any negative feelings. It is only out of love that they did whatever they were doing.
This love could be understood by the children, as well. Love is the language of the heart.
Today, when you all have come here from many parts of the world, for a very important
meeting, I had envisaged that this programme called Guru Vikas must happen now. It is the
right time to do it now.
I travel to many countries. I looked at the youth in these countries and found from the kind of
questions they asked, from their habits, and from their mannerisms, that they definitely
lacked good teachers. It is not the fault of the children who have become youths today.
However, it is the responsibility of all the elders to provide them with good teachers to
provide good education.
Children are always Divine. They are born pure and Divine. They are like the rain that comes
down from the sky. Only when it touches the soil does it become muddy. Till then, it always
remains pure. When children interact with others in the society, they pick up the qualities of
the people around them. Rain that which is pure and colourless touches the soil and becomes
red, that is, acquires the colour of the soil. Likewise, children interact with their parents, with
their teachers, with other people in society and that's how they become one amongst them.

To ensure the children remain pure, as they were when they were born, the environment
around them has to become pure. Guru Vikas is one such effort to ensure that they remain
what they are. They are pure, they are Divine, and they are full of love - and these qualities
must be preserved by providing them the right kind of environment.
It is not merely the responsibility of the parents to get the children educated or put them in the
school because they are born to them. Truly, children are the future of any society or country.
Therefore, it is the collective responsibility of every citizen of the country to ensure that
children get the right kind of education. Children cannot be blamed if something goes wrong
tomorrow. It is the entire society that needs to bear the blame for what has gone wrong.
T E A C H E R that is the spelling of teacher All the qualities of a teacher are
embedded in these letters which make up the word teacher. I have a plan and if you just
understand this word teacher correctly, you will know what to do with your work in the
field of Guru Vikas.
See, the tank may be full of water but if the pipes are faulty, the water cannot be delivered
through the taps to the thirsty. If the water in the tank is cold and it runs through the pipes, the
pipes also become cold. If the water in the tank is hot, and it runs through the pipes, the pipes
also become hot. In the same way, if you derive all that you want to teach from the Divinity
within, you also become Divine in the process of teaching.
So, the very first letter T in teacher stands for transformation, and not merely information.
Information can be acquired from books, from the library, from many sources today.
Wherever I go, I see children playing with small computers or phones everywhere and they
learn a lot from these. The trouble is all parents do is give them their phones, and they are
busy with these phones and they learn a lot of things, good and bad. Who is responsible for
that? It is the one who has given that instrument into the hands of the children, and not the
fault of the children.
Likewise, the first thing that teacher stands for is transformation. Merely providing bookish
knowledge or information is not the role of a true teacher. Definitely, the teacher needs to
provide information and knowledge as needed and but it is all knowledge related to this
world. This is important for survival in this world but it is not complete by itself. Such
information will produce great students but they will not be good students. The good part of it
is also essentially the responsibility of the teacher. While the information makes the children
great, transformation will make them good, and therefore, the teachers primary role is to
bring about this transformation.
How does this transformation begin? It begins with the teacher - Acharathi iti Acharya, (the
one who practises is the teacher). The one who truly lives what he is teaching alone can be a
good teacher. First, transformation should happen within the teacher, and only by his conduct
can he teach the students.
Once upon a time, a mother brought her child to Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, who was a
spiritual Master during those times. She said, My child eats too many sweets every day.
8

Please tell him that he should reduce eating sweets. Ramakrishna looked at the child and
said, Come after one week. Mother took the child back and returned with him promptly
after one week. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa came out and told the child, Hey boy, look,
you should not eat too many sweets, it is not good for you, and he told them to go. Mother
was perplexed; she asked, You could have said this a week ago. Why do you call him now
and tell him this? Sri Ramakrishna said, Amma, a week ago, I myself was eating too many
sweets! How could I preach something that I do not practise? In the last week, I practised not
to eat too many sweets. Therefore, now with authority, I can advise, I can preach to your
child, too.
Swami used to eat a lot of paan in the earlier days. Those who have been with Swami in
those days will know that whether somebody was coming or not, the box of paan would
always accompany Swami wherever He went.
One day, a devotee who used snuff was sitting in front of Swami. All of a sudden, he felt like
sneezing. He took his kerchief, put it on his nose, and sneezed. The kerchief was completely
black because of the snuff. Looking at that, Swami told him, Look at you, your habits are so
dirty! Your kerchief is all black because you use snuff. Then he looked at Swami and said,
But Swami, Your kerchief is also all red because You eat paan all the time. That made Me
think: how I can preach to somebody to be clean, to keep his kerchief clean, when My
kerchief itself is red and stained because of paan? From that day onwards, I gave up eating
paan. It is only by sheer resolve to teach others that I had to give it up.
Therefore, transformation will not happen in others unless it has happened in you. You have
no authority to preach to anyone before you put what you preach into practice. The first T
of the very word teacher stands for transformation and not merely giving information to
people.
Then comes E. What is E? E is, be an example to everyone -- not merely in the
classroom but whenever you are outside the classroom or wherever you are. You should be
an example to others. Children learn more from the teacher outside the classroom then what
they learn inside the classroom. In front of the police, all thieves will behave like saints but
when the police disappear, they will return to their bad habits.
In a classroom, in a school, everybody will behave well, bound by the rules. However, in
your personal time, in your personal lives, how you behave and conduct yourselves is
extremely important. Therefore, being a good example to everyone is very important. The
way you speak, the way you think, the way you act - everything should be exemplary. This
will be possible only if you truly practice whatever you are planning to teach. Unless you are
transformed, you cannot be an example to others.
For example, what is the greatest seva one can do? Being what you ought to be is the greatest
service that you can do to others. You then do not have to speak about it to anyone. Your
very presence will teach them. You see the Sun; the Sun rises in the sky all the time, and
burns itself out for the sake of nourishing the entire planet. Its very presence takes care of the
sustenance of the entire universe. Likewise, the very presence of a good teacher will take care
9

of everything that is happening in that school, in the society, and in the nation. An exemplary
teacher alone can create exemplary students. Therefore, in every aspect of your life be an
example, be willing to sacrifice all that is not good, and be willing to practice that which will
help you become an example to others.
Then comes A, awareness of Oneness, awareness of Atma. You cannot love others if you
think they are others, that they are different from you. The hand feeds the mouth, the mouth
then eats the food and sends it to the stomach, the stomach then digests and sends it to all the
parts of the body through the blood, which is pumped by the heart. All are working in unison,
because they know they are dependent on each other and are not different from each other.
Hence, Jesus said, All are one, My dear son. Be alike to everyone. Teachers should see the
inner Divinity in all these children and not differentiate between them based on their outer
appearances, habits and behaviour. They must believe that everyone is truly Divine.
Like the raindrops that are pure, it is only the company that changes people. Some students
might be well-behaved and they will listen to whatever you say. They will respect and honour
you, and so you love them. Some students may not be kind to you. They may not listen to
you, respect you, or follow you and you become judgmental and rude to them. First, accept
them, as all are one. Each is cast in the same image of Divinity and there is no difference
whatsoever amongst them. It is the circumstances that have made the children become what
they are. You should be able to see through these outer differences into the inner oneness of
all the children, and love them not as others, but as your own true self. It is you who have
come to yourself in a different form. It is the same God within you and in them. Every child
is Swami. He is only playing the role based on the time, space and circumstances that the
child was born and has grown up. All are Divine and if you believe everybody is Divine, all
your efforts will be fulfilled. If you think, Oh! He is a useless fellow and there is no point in
me teaching anything to him. He is not going to change, he is only going to waste my time,
then you will never achieve anything. If you truly believe that it is possible because he is
Divine, then you will be able to believe and keep the child close to you.
Transformation is not possible unless you believe that the child is Divine and will be
transformed by your efforts. Therefore, all are one. This awareness that everybody is the
same is extremely important. You should not differentiate. You should not judge children
based on their outer differences. What is an idol, after all? It is a piece of stone that has been
chiselled to perfection. Before it was an idol, it was only a piece of stone or a rock. All that
was unwanted was removed and what remained was the idol. So, believe that everybody is
Divine and Divinity is inside them. You should be able to bring out that Divinity from within
them.
I always insist that it is not about education; it is Educare. The Divinity which is within must
come out. You must provide an opportunity for the child to become and remain what it truly
is. Therefore, helping everybody understand that all are Divine, believing all are Divine, is
what you must teach the children. Don't differentiate based on the outer differences. This
awareness that all are one is extremely important. Whether the children are from India,
Australia, America, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, or any part of the world they are all
10

essentially Divine. If you believe in their Divinity you will be able to teach them with all
your love; otherwise, you will become judgmental and will not be able to do justice to the job
that has been given to you.
T, E, A and then comes C, the culture of the country. The culture of the country is very
important while you teach. If you tell an Indian story to a Japanese child, what would he
understand? He will understand nothing. Therefore, what you teach using stories, parables, or
incidents that have happened, should be relevant to that particular country. You should design
your work, the teaching material, methods, whatever it might be, in the context of the country
where you are teaching.
All cultures have taught the same principles of brotherhood, of love, of goodness. Therefore,
there will be people in each culture and stories from each culture, which will help the
children appreciate and understand their culture better. There is no point in taking one story
and thinking it will be acceptable to every child. You should find locally, the relevant
materials, the language that you use, the people whose examples you quote, the methods that
are being used, that are relevant to the local culture and the country where the training is
happening.
H Head, Hand and Heart. The unity of head, hand and heart is extremely important.
Hands what do you mean by hands? That is shakti, the ability that you have to do things.
Head means your buddhi, that is, the intellect. Heart means your love hridaya. Hrid plus
daya compassion is the quality of the heart. Unless head, hand and heart are working
together, you cannot teach. Otherwise, you will say something, do something, think
something else, and you will not win the trust of the people around you.
You must also understand the hands of the children - their physical growth is important. You
must understand how to take care of food, nutrition for the children; their growth, how to
look after their physical wellness, be it sports, games or various other kinds of physical
exercises. Unless the body is healthy, the mind cannot be healthy. Healthy food, healthy
place, and healthy activities are important for the childs growth, as much as it is for you.
If a teacher has a big belly and goes around telling the students, You see, you ought to be fit
and you should be running around, who is going to bother about the teachers teachings? If
the teacher himself is eating the food of ten people and tells the children to eat selectively,
carefully, who is going to listen to such a teacher? Hence, the teacher has to be healthy in
order to ensure the students follow.
You should know the nutritional needs of the children. In our schools, too, the people with a
lot of knowledge about nutrition, based on the age of the children, are providing advice in
order to prepare meals. Again, meals have to be prepared in the context of the local cuisine or
taste. You cant take one menu from India and put it everywhere, in all places. Nobody will
be able to appreciate that.
With this healthy body comes the healthy mind, that is, the head. Therefore, your head should
also be healthy in order to ensure the children are healthy. Think good. Think positive. Many
11

teachers think very negatively. In India, if you become a teacher, people look at you as
useless people in society. You could not become an engineer or a doctor or a lawyer, so you
have become a teacher. Such teachers are of no use.
Teachers who are sharp in their minds, who are intellectually capable of passing on
knowledge should become teachers. You should not become a teacher just because you did
not get another job. Teachers are essentially moulders of society. They are the builders of the
nation and must, take great pride and honour in their job of teaching. Don't think it is easier to
become a teacher because you cannot do anything else. In fact, a teachers job is the toughest
job, all other things are easy.
If you perform a bad operation, you will kill one person. If you construct a bad building, you
will kill a few more. If you are bad teacher, you will kill the entire nation. Therefore, it is
very important role and you must develop a sense of pride and honour that you are a teacher.
Helping others to become proud teachers is very important. It is a great role that you are
playing, whether somebody acknowledges it or not. The sharpest, and best of people should
take up the noble profession of teaching. You must encourage people who are intelligent to
participate in this programme.
Your hearts should be full of love and compassion. When children make mistakes, you must
ask yourself, did you not make mistakes like this when you were like them? If you cannot
learn how to forgive, you cannot teach anybody anything. Love will give you the power to
forgive and forget. Loves lives by giving and forgiving. Only selfishness lives by getting and
forgetting. The teachers life is always giving, and his job is to give and not judge. That
comes with a pure heart. The heart should lead you, and be your Guru. The head and hands
should follow. The heart should be the master. Only the unity of these three will help you
become a good teacher.
E is environment - the kind of place that you are teaching, the dress that you wear, the
language that you use. Many children go to schools. Schools are not at all like schools; they
are like offices. In Bengaluru, many schools don't have the culture of a school at all. There
are no playgrounds; the children are playing on the computer and not on the grounds outside.
They are eating food that was made three days ago and not what is brought fresh from the
farm. They don't get any of those good things that a child must get.
The right kind of environment is extremely important for children. Teachers must ensure that
the classrooms are bright, clean, and hygienic, that all the things are organised, and that there
are facilities to ensure that discipline, cleanliness and a good, positive environment is
maintained. Therefore, where you teach, and how you teach, what you wear, how the place is
- all this has impact.
When you go to an ashram you feel extremely peaceful when you see nature, the trees, the
flowers and the natural beauty. It immediately puts your mind at peace. A peaceful mind can
learn better. A place where there is too much of noise, that is not clean, and which is not
bright, will make the mind dull. You must ensure that the place for teaching is clean. That is
the role of the environment.
12

R is role of religion. Most of the education system is afraid of talking about anything that
affiliates with religion. That leads to a lot of confusion in the minds of the people. From
ancient times, people have been fighting wars in the name of religion because they don't
understand anything. They quote and misquote from the scriptures without understanding a
word of them. An understanding that the undercurrent of all the religions is the Brotherhood
of Man and the Fatherhood of God is extremely important.
Therefore, teachers must understand what the religions of the world teach. All religions are
like different schools, with different mediums of teaching and different teachers. However,
the subjects that are being taught are the same - the subjects of love, compassion, kindness,
and brotherhood are the same in all religions. A science teacher in India, America, Singapore
or Australia, may teach with different techniques or in a different language of communication
but nobody will teach that Sun rises from the west and sets in the east. All are going to teach
that the Sun rises from the east and sets in the west; the syllabus is the same. So, a proper
understanding of all the religions is very important.
I am telling you all this only to help you remember some important things. If I generally give
a long discourse, you will forget if it is not been categorised as point-wise. Likewise, when
you teach, you must also make it in a way that people will remember and not just talk. The
best technique for teaching is through your own practice. You must ask yourself, Have I
understood it well? If you have understood, only then you can go and teach others. Many
teachers don't go to teach. They confuse all the children. They talk big philosophies and then
the children think, Oh, this teacher knows too much; maybe I am such a fool that I cant
understand anything, and they keep quiet. A good teacher should make the most
complicated subject look very simple, whereas a bad teacher will make simple subjects also
look very complicated.
There are many spiritual gurus nowadays all around the world, and they give long lectures
and discourses and use complicated philosophies and arguments to prove their point. The
poor, innocent devotees understand nothing of the whole programme. They only get
impressed by the verbal juggling performed, and they come back and think, Oh this guru
knows too much! The truth is, truth knows very few words to express itself. It is untruth that
needs many words. The one who is a true teacher would explain very simply, like the cows
eat grass and all kinds of things, but finally gives pure, white milk. Similarly, the teacher
should do more homework than the students. They should put in more effort to simplify what
is being taught.
I say everything in such a simple way that a lot of people think I dont know very much. I
dont talk about complicated things. Somehow, complication is considered as knowledgeable.
The truth is, one who has wisdom will always be simple. The greatest of teachers have
always been very simple. Keep yourself very simple. Simple living, high thinking.
A teacher who wears flashy clothes, moves around in a way that is very arrogant and then
comes and teaches the children to be humble and nice, is not going to be successful. You
have to first be, before you say anything. To be is the first step. And then, to do, to see and
13

to tell, these are the four steps; to be what you want others to be; to do what you are; to see if
there are mistakes children are making, and then only do you have the right to tell. You must
emphasise these four steps.
While I have given you a general understanding of what kind of teachers I am looking for, it
is important that you break it all down into a very clear-cut subject or syllabus. The entire
course of this teachers training should happen in nine phases, and in each phase of nine,
there will be nine sub-divisions, which everybody must understand. The first is just an
introduction to what a teachers role is in the context of transformation of the society and the
nation. You must grasp all aspects of what it means to be a teacher. That should be the first
part of the training.
You have to understand why they are joining this training, how it is going to benefit them,
and through them, the society and nation at large. What are the pre-requisites to be a good
teacher? Teachers must understand and be given a few months to do the homework,
understanding that they are ready and able to take the rest of the training. If they fail in the
very first programme and are not able to bring themselves to follow certain things, there is no
point pouring more water into the pots that have holes. All that will go to waste. First, repair
the pots; fill the cracks and holes. If they are ready to do that, then you should take them to
the second phase of the teaching. Otherwise, it will be a waste of time and effort.
Only sincere people will learn; others will waste energy and time. That's how you should take
them to develop in the second module, and the third and the fourth. You must understand
how you are going to take up each aspect that Swami has been speaking about, and how you
are going to make very simple, practical lessons, using stories, exercises, and different plays
and parables, and then creating very interesting, simple ways of doing things. There should
be less of words and more of action. An action-oriented syllabus is what you should design.
When the teachers undergo training and return to their schools, they should apply what has
been taught to them and let you know the results, how it is has helped, where it has not
helped, and how it can be improved. Therefore, in each country when you first apply this,
take initially one school that you know and the teachers and principal whom you know, and
train them, and ask them to apply it in their own schools to their own children and see
whether it works or not.
The first step is to only take primary schools and, at the most, high schools. Don't go beyond
that. Start with primary and high school teachers, and then go to the higher levels. Those are
the formative years of the children. Whatever is taught will stay with them forever. Its easier
to teach them. Water that has already spilled out of the vessel cannot be collected back. You
should save what is already in the vessel. Likewise, in the formative years of the children,
from six years to almost fourteen years, you should be able to teach most of it.
Identify such teachers and train them first. In each country, take one school, which is nearby,
and apply this and then see the results and make modifications accordingly. Take a year to
develop this programme carefully. Eventually, this programme will be accepted as a training

14

programme for all the teachers all around the world. This will be part of the regular teacher
training modules of the governments, with modifications according to each country.
All this will happen. When Bal Vikas started, it was a very, very small thing. It centred on
how to keep these children away from bad company, and how to use their time well when
they finished school. With that thought, it started. Most of the children were troublemakers
after they came home from schools, and mothers did not know how to handle them. So, they
started by teaching them bhajans and telling them stories about Swamis life and discourses,
and with that this Bal Vikas movement started. Ultimately, from high school you must take it
further to the college level, university level and further beyond.
All of you should spend some time together to understand. The earlier speakers have spoken
about many techniques which can be used in a collective way. Learn from each other how
best to achieve the goals. Take one school as an example first, apply whatever has been
taught, and ask the teachers to be in touch with you and inform you about the changes.
Are there any questions that you want to ask?

Swami lovingly answered the questions fielded by the assembled congregation

Question 1: It was said that the relation to God should always be a part of the training. In
Australia, many people are very averse to the word God. So, we have adopted the practice
that good is the same as God, as they are both dedicated to goodness. We cant afford a
common language. Could Swami please provide more clarification on this.
Swami: They may not teach about God, but all the people in Australia belong to some
religion or the other, isnt it? They follow some religion, be it Christianity, Hinduism, or
something else. In all these religions there is a concept of God, there is a concept of love and
brotherhood; therefore, I would say everybody should understand the basics of all religions
and the clarity about how all religions teach the same principle, and that the principle is the
principle of God.
If you teach the basics of all religions and develop broad-mindedness in the children, they
will automatically understand the concept of God, because that is being taught in every place.
You may or may not use the word God, but ultimately, the truth is that. Whether you use
the word God or not, all religions mention and follow the concept of God. To develop
broad-mindedness, you should have a course to understand the religious philosophies of the
various religions.
Show the underlying oneness. If you teach that much to the teachers, that is enough. They
will have good understanding and they will be able to proclaim, All are one. However,
difficulties come whether you know it or not -- even the atheist says Oh my God! So he
knows that God exists, but he doesnt understand the concept of God. Through their own
religion, teach them the concept of God; not merely out of a core syllabus, but making them

15

understand their own religion better is good enough, along with all the other religions of the
world, and the oneness amongst them all.

Question 2: Swami, You said the entire course on teacher transformation can be graded in
nine phases. Can You please, shed more light on that.
Swami: If I tell you the whole thing, what will you do? (Laughter) I want you all to put
together your thoughts and come up with how, step-by-step and practically, you can teach
them multiple things. For the first part, you should at least start with the general introduction
of why teachers play the most important role in society -- how they transform society, how
they can help the nation. All that Swami has spoken about today can be part of the first
course.
How do they need to behave? What do they need to do in order to be of help to society? Then
give them some practical examples. When I say transformation is important, practise before
you preach. Give them some examples, give them stories, give them exercises to do. The next
time, when a child makes a mistake, how would they deal with the same child? Would they
get angry and judgmental or would they compassionately try and resolve the problem with
the child? Would they try and understand why the child is behaving that way, or simply
conclude that it is a bad child? Would they take a positive approach, or would they take a
negative approach? In this manner, and with each of these principles, create practical
exercises which the teachers can implement and follow. They should return and feel that, yes,
they were able to find a difference, and are ready for the next course. Break up each the nine
phases this way.

Question 3: A lot of us come from countries that are multi-racial and multi-religious, and
the school systems are very committed to approaching education from a secular angle.
Religion is separated from education. You have rightly said that all religions teach the
same principles. However, there are religions in the world today that teach religion as if
theirs is the only path to God or theirs is the only right God, not recognising that all are
different paths to the same destination. In this scenario, teaching that All are one and
'All Gods and all paths lead to the same destination, in some countries, communities and
cultures would be interpreted as blasphemy. How do You advise us to approach this topic
without ruffling feathers? Thank You.
Swami: Whether somebody likes or does not like it, truth is truth. You cannot speak untruth
because you want to be popular amongst people who don't like the truth. Likewise, you must
maintain the truth. You need not take this and put it in the syllabus in the school. I want the
teachers to develop broad-mindedness and the right understanding. So, when they are
questioned by the children, just as you are asking today, teachers should have the right
answers. They should be able to say, while this religion or this particular country preaches

16

this, the truth is, the underlying message of all religions is, All are One, and, All Gods and
routes reach the same destination.
The other day, we were in Fiji, and a boy asked, Jesus says He is the only way; only if You
follow Him will you get liberation, otherwise you wont get liberation. People asked to be
converted to Christianity as this is believed to be the right way. But why would Jesus say
something like that? I told him, Jesus also said All are one My dear son. Be alike to
everyone. Why are they are not preaching that? They are preaching what they want to
preach. You must take it in the right context.
Jesus said, "I am the son of God; I am the messenger of God," and then He said, "I and My
Father are one." How could He say three different things about the same thing? Therefore,
you must understand the inner meaning. When He first thought He was here to preach God,
Jesus believed He was a messenger. But as He felt oneness with God, He finally said, I and
My Father are one. At the body level He was just the messenger, at the mind level, He was
the son of God; and at the Atmic level He and His Father were One.
If you teach the fundamentals correctly to the teachers, tomorrow, if they are asked any
questions by anybody, they should be able to give the right answers. They should not remain
narrow-minded. This wont become part of the school syllabus. This is an independent
teachers training programme in which we can teach them things that we want to teach. Those
who want to learn will come learn and should have a clear understanding of everything.
Instead of hushing it away, saying, Let us not discuss this topic, it is only fooling yourself.
If you close your eyes, it wont become night. Day will remain day. It is better that you open
your eyes and see things in the light. So, teachers should develop a broad-minded approach.
You must take the essence of all the religions, quote from them and explain how all these
religions are one. Narasimha Murthy can help you with a lot of material on that because that
is taught in our educational institutions to broaden the childrens minds.

Question 4: In practice, we find it very difficult to love people who are egoistic. I should
not be finding fault in them, but some people are arrogant and respond in a negative way.
It is easy to love people who are lovable. How to overcome this? Even within the family if
the children listen to you, you love them dearly, but when they are adamant and not
responding to you, you cannot love them. If I am in a constant state of agitation in trying
to overcome these things, how am I to reach the stillness and know that I am God? Please
explain.
Swami: You move from primary school, to high school, to university. It is very easy to be in
primary school all the time, isnt it? However, should you continue to be there because it is
easy to be there? If you want to evolve, you have to take difficult subjects, you have to work
harder, you have to learn new things, and you have to pass all of the exams. That's when you
get promoted to higher levels. It is easy to love the one who loves you; that is all primary
school. Nobody needs to teach you, it is very simple. If, however, you want to go to high
17

school, you should be able to love even those who do not love you. If you go to the
university, you should be able to love those who even hate or trouble you; then you are
evolving.
Even when Jesus Christ was being crucified, He said, "Father in heaven, forgive them. They
do not know what they are doing." Even when He was being killed mercilessly, His last
prayer to God was to forgive all these people, as they did not what they were doing. That's
when He changed to realise, "I and My Father are one." He realised there is no body, all this
is an illusion, and the truth that we are one and we cannot be destroyed.
You have to take up more challenges. You have to work harder in order to evolve. You have
worked hard like this in your academics and in your professions, then why not in your
spiritual life? If people don't love you, love them more. If somebody is sicker, he needs a
higher dose of medicine. Likewise, if somebody is more of a troublemaker, you should love
him more. Then, the disease can be cured once for all.

Question 5: Swami, I do teacher training at the university level. Is there a place for this
programme to start out at that level or, do You prefer that we reach out to a school and
involve teachers at the school level with younger children.

Swami: For the university level, the programme has to be different, but the fundamentals will
be the same. The way it is taught has to be different. We are not right now ready to take it
there. Let us start with primary school. As we progress well, we will bring it to the high
school level, and from the high school level we shall bring it to the university. At some point
of time, it will reach teachers of all kinds. However, it is better to start by making small
beginnings, taking one step at a time, and not rushing. Anyway, if these students are taught
well, when they reach the university they will all be good students, so that will solve your
problem of teacher training at the university level.

Question 6: I have a question on post-war reconciliation within the education system. Now
we have, especially in Sri Lanka, lessons taught in different languages. Teachers will need
a more holistic approach on that subject. What is your guidance please, Swami?
Swami: What is being taught in schools is in different languages based on the ethnic group
that the children belong to. However, teachers might know many languages. It is easier to do
our programme in one or two major languages, because everybody will know them. They can
definitely modify the programme according to the school that they are teaching, for they have
learnt the lessons. So, according to Me, even if it is Sri Lanka and there are many languages,
in many schools, if you teach the teachers who must know more than one or two languages,
that it is good enough.

18

In India, too, in every state there is a different language medium -- it has to be modified
according to each place. Pick up one or two of the most common languages and start the
work. You can pick a school which you are familiar with, take the teachers from that school,
train them, and then if it is a success, if you have corrected it, we will take it to other schools.
Once it is ready, it is very easy to change to another language. As I have said, the culture,
which is pertaining to the language, also has to be infused into the syllabus, the examples
have to be in the context of that particular group of people, and culture, their traditions. Take
it one step at a time.

Question 7: Swami, may I ask a question about medical teaching? A lot of doctors, not just
here, but all around the world, are becoming very technical. They are more interested in
treating the disease than actually looking at the well-being of the patients. I think this is
something that we are not doing right in medical schools. I am not sure what the solution
is. Could You advise, please.
Swami: It is always said "Do not do to others what you would not like done to yourself." If
you are on the operation table, would you do the same thing to yourself? If you cant, then
dont do it to the others as well. That is the way professors should teach.
When you are curing you are not curing just a particular part of a body, but the entire body.
When you cure the entire body, you cure the entire person, the entire family, the entire
society in which he belongs. Therefore, the patient is not merely a piece of flesh or bone. It is
a human behind all that. Would they do this to their own fathers, mothers, brothers, and
sisters, or even to themselves? If they won't, then they should not do it to others as well.
Life is reflection, reaction and resound. The one who is a doctor today can become a patient
another day. You can imagine what another doctor can do to him. It can come back to them.
Unless doctors all around the world develop this understanding, that they are primarily not
just curing a disease, but curing a person, who is a father, a mother, or a brother or sister, a
member of the family and this family, is a member of the society, and the society is part of
the nation, then he will really be helping the nation.
This broad understanding must be taught as part of the training of doctors itself. Merely
encouraging them for their intellectual prowess leads to all these kinds of problems. That is
why I said, it is only information knowledge. They only want to be great; they do not want to
become good. Goodness is from the heart; unless they have this understanding, they cannot
be good. As teachers, you must keep emphasizing, encouraging, acknowledging and
rewarding them for the good work they do, and not the great work they are doing.
If you go to Raipur Hospital and listen to the stories, you will know how much of goodness is
there, and not merely greatness. Here there is greatness. They do all kinds of complicated
childrens operations, but the heart is only as small as a two-rupee coin; it is so small and
there are holes that they need to close. Definitely it is a complicated job. However, they do it
with so much love, because they do not want patients to pay them but they want patients to
19

love them. That is why, as a part of your medical curriculum, these values must be taught,
and not for the sake of just a few extra rupees should doctors treat their patients.
A doctor is really helping the whole nation when he treats a patient with a disease. Then, the
patient can take care of himself and he is no more a burden to the society. He can work, he
can earn, he can look after his family and the whole economy benefits as a result. This
economy pays the doctors, too. Therefore, he should understand that he is part of the bigger
picture. That understanding must be given. If the seniors follow the right approach, reward
the junior doctors for the right kind of work, and reward good doctors and not merely great
ones then obviously, they will be encouraged.

Question 8: Swami, we have a lot of children in Singapore with mental health concerns
and they end up in Childrens Homes. One of the things that we were thinking of doing is
EHV in Childrens Homes, to reduce the numbers of children in the homes who are
suffering without any guidance at all. Can you please guide us, Swami.
Swami: You can do seva wherever you get an opportunity. Actually, the children who are
mentally ill are still fewer in number than the children who are going to be mentally ill soon!
(Laughter). You should do the seva but right now we will take the original approach, because
that requires far more inputs from the fields of psychology and medicine, in order to design a
programme, and how to handle them. Of course, love is the common way. If you love them
truly, your heart will guide you as to what should be done for them. However, in an organised
and structured way, it can be added later to this whole programme.
It requires far deeper insights in order to handle mentally ill patients; you are not being
merely a teacher, you must also be a kind of a doctor or therapist to the child, which needs a
different set of skills, as well. Therefore, we can always take that up as a separate
programme.
Those people who are in the field of psychology and therapy, especially child psychology,
should give their inputs. The important thing is to always talk positively. I tell My teachers in
the school, when the child is doing wrong don't call him and say, You are useless, you are
good for nothing, you are a burden. These kind of words will only discourage him from
becoming better. Instead, you should call him and tell him, I thought you are a very good
boy. I am sure you can do better than this. You can definitely score better marks than what
you have done. You are a good boy, good boy. Like this, if you continuously emphasise, he
will believe that he is a good boy and his behaviour will change. That kind of positivity has to
be generated. No negative sentences; always use positive sentences. You are bad! - that
should not be used. You should say, You can become better. That is more positive. You
are already good; you can become better.

Question 9: Swami, is there a way we can get the government or policy makers involved in
this teacher transformation programme, or in a different conference?
20

Swami: You don't have to go and invite the government the government itself will come
running after you. When they will realise the transformation it is bringing about in the
schools and in the teachers in society, they will come and ask you, Can you please share this
programme in our other schools? Can we make it part of our education programme? There
is time. First, prove that this all works and let them come and ask you - then it has great value
in it. Do this for a year or two. See the transformation and let the people come and ask for it.
That is the right approach.
Now, the government is asking us for more schools, and hospitals. We didnt go and tell the
government; they want us to do it now. That respect they will give you, once you have
proven whatever you are doing. There will be a time when it will be a recommended course
for all people around the world, with some minor modifications based on the requirements of
the governments. Even Education in Human Values started as a small course, but its now
recognised in many schools and many governments are aware of the programme.

Question 10: Swami, a lot of children do a lot of seva in schools. They do even 80 to 100
hours of seva. They do it not out of selfless love, but to get into better schools, high schools,
or to a university and to put it in their resume. What is Your thought on how should we
guide these children to do it selflessly, and try not to use it only as a means to getting
admission into a reputable school or university?
Swami: Anything which is done with expectation cannot be seva. Seva should be done
without expectation. It is not done for the sake of doing. Love only knows of giving, it
doesn't expect. So, this is all out of force. Force will not last long, unless it is coming from
source. It will not help anyone. It becomes a burden that they have to go and do seva for the
sake of a few extra points or another benefit. It becomes a business; it is no more seva.
Therefore, this is not going to help. We can fool ourselves, but it is not true. The children will
not learn anything.
It has to come from the source. Only when they feel the joy of service will they be motivated.
Everything that we do in our lives is only to become happier. If they find happiness in
helping others, then you need not tell them. They will do more than 80 hours on their own,
without anybody asking. Help them experience this joy of serving. Help them do it selflessly,
without expectations. These kinds of things are not good.
In our schools, we don't give marks to the children based on how they behave. That is not the
way. Then they will behave only for the sake of marks. That is the wrong motivation. You
must tell them, You should get a good name, people should appreciate you and Swami
should be happy with you. You should be happy, above all. Then it is good.
It depends on what the teachers encourage. If teachers recognise and reward the children who
are good more than those who are great, then obviously, this mind-set will change.
Otherwise, it wont change. That is why, if teachers understand this phenomenon better, then
they will be able to tell the right things to the children.
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Question 11: Swami, there is a lot discord in the Sai centres. Theres not much unity
among the teachers. This is confusing the students. Also the teachers get the students only
for a little while during the week, and the parents have them most of the time. How do we
bring about transformation to show them Your love?
Swami: In our mythology, there is a character by the name, Ekalavya. Ekalavya did not have
a guru because he was born to a low-caste hunter family. He wanted Dronacharya, who was
the guru of the Kaurava and Pandava princes, to be his guru. However, out of his tremendous
enthusiasm and willingness to learn, he made a statue of his teacher, and learned the skills of
archery just by worshipping the statue, although the guru was not even physically present.
The truth is that for everyone the guru is within; it comes from within and not from outside,
that is why it is called Educare and not education.
A teacher is somebody who helps a child to bring out knowledge that is within. In this
circumstance, where we are presently, if you are really a loving and kind teacher, children
will fight with their parents to come back to you, and spend more time with you. Parents will
not be able to hold them back at home. They will say, I want to be with the teacher, and I
want to learn new things. I want to spend time there! Children will automatically be
attracted to teachers who are truly selfless and truly loving just as a piece of iron is attracted
to a magnet. If you are that kind of teacher, children will choose and come to you. There is no
need to form a syllabus and no need to form rules and timings, as they will come anytime to
you. Become like that. In the present state of things, you cannot make too many changes
outside. If you change from within, the children will come running to you.
It is not the quantity of time children spend with anybody, but the quality of time they spend.
Even if they learn one good thing with you in an hours class, it will be far more useful for
them than spending ten hours learning nothing at their parents places. Teach one thing in that
little time and let them go and practise the rest of time they are at home.
In our schools now, children who are learning things are going and changing their parents.
They tell their parents, This is not the way you should live; this is not the way you should
talk, because they have learnt from here, and they transform their parents. It all depends on
the teacher. If a teacher is so loving and selfless, children will come, attracted to the teacher.
That is how we can transform and change the situation. Obviously, children will not go to
those who are not selfless. That's how things will start changing.
The worst of the sins is to do shishyadroha, that is, to cheat a student by telling him lies. That
is what Dronacharya did. Though Ekalavya was more deserving than Arjuna, he asked
Ekalavya for his own thumb as guru dakshina. So, there cant be a worst sin than that. You
cannot commit a bigger sin than teaching lies and wrong things to a student who has trusted
you completely with his life.

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Question 12: Baba, earlier you said that we should all spend time together and move
forward together. Since people from all over the world have come here, how do we begin
doing that?
Swami: First, all of you should together create an introductory module to this programme,
which should emphasize personal transformation and various ways in which you can do it,
mainly in the aspects of head, heart and hand. How can you change yourselves in each of
these aspects? Everybody is essentially three, and not one: what you think you are, what
others think you are, and what you really are. All three things should be the same. A teacher
may think he is good and kind, but students and colleagues may not think so. He needs to
make changes to ensure that he is acceptable and loved by all. Then, of course, he has to be
pure within, and that is when he can be accepted by himself and others.
Make an introductory chapter with all these aspects: What kind of school environment should
we create? What do you mean by oneness of the religions? What do you mean by head, heart
and hand? What is meant by Educare? In these aspects, make some practical topics and use
your techniques to teach them, as part of the introductory part of this whole thing. Then, later
parts will be nothing more than detailed aspects of the things that you have put in the
introduction. You should only take it to the next course if they show interest, change
themselves, and come. Even if ten good teachers come, it is good enough.
One thing I must tell you is that, with numbers growing with a lot joining, different heads
will have different thoughts and ideas. If you use the head, there will be difference of
opinions. If you truly ask the heart, which is the same for each every person, the same
Divinity, you all will get the same answer for the same question. However children may
approach a teacher, if the teacher is the same, he will give the same answer to the same
question. Therefore, approach your heart, ask your heart what needs to be done, and it will
tell you the truth; there wont be any confusion.
Should we close for today with bhajans followed by bhojan (food)? For now, since it is
getting late, we will close and meet soon again. However, before that I want all of you to
work in smaller groups and prepare this introductory programme of this teachers training.
Give a glimpse of what is coming their way, in the next eight modules. Let them develop
their understanding as to why they should want to get into this programme.

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Inaugural GURU VIKAS Conference

29 September, 2015 Morning, Sai Anandam, Singapore
th

28 teachers from 12 countries selected by Swami were present at the launch. Sister Bhuvana, the
chief organizer for the conference, provided the welcome address. She shared that the Guru
Vikas logo above was designed with Swamis close guidance.

24

(Above) Dr. Jeanne Lily (USA) presented on behalf of Rita Bruce on teacher training.
(Below) Dr. Ron and Su Farmer from Australia spoke on the curriculum in the post
graduate program they run. There was also sharing by Brother Sunil and Sister Sangita
Naidu on their experiences with the Sathya Sai Institute of Thailand.

25

Swami graciously permitted SSEHV teachers from Singapore and a small group of
devotees to join in the morning proceedings at Sai Anandam.

26

29th September, 2015 Evening, Sai Anandam, Singapore

Summary of Talk by Father Charles Ogada
Father Charles Ogada narrated his incredible experiences with Swami, both in the Physical
and Subtle Forms, as we are aware of in these times of Divine Blessings.
As a young boy, there was an unknown Divine Presence that filled Father Charles with so
much joy and bliss, that he would forget time and space, making him withdraw into the
forest. This Presence would become so intense that he would lose body consciousness and
faint. Father Charles revealed that this Divine Presence and the Voice that pervades His
whole being is none other Swami Himself.
Swami was the unknown
presence that hovered round him
all this while, ever since Father
Charles was a child. He was the
Voice that said to Father Charles,
What do you want to do with
your life? Father Charles within
himself responded, You are the
Life. I want to love You and serve
You. From that moment on, with
this loving awareness, everything
became clear to him and his desire
was to become a priest.
Father Charles cited several overwhelming experiences in Nigeria, where he manages a
school and a childrens home. When he was in Muddenahalli last December 2014, Swami
told him, I am always with the children. I know whatever you are doing. I come around with
Jesus. This was such a revelation to him.
With the children, Father Charles learned many lessons of humanity. One incident made him
realise that his reaction was one of emotion, whereas the childrens was more of sharing and
caring. Swami said that the children know very well how to share, and for Father Charles it
was a lesson to be non-judgemental. Father Charles was taught a lesson on non-violence and
compassion one day when a boy killed an insect. The boy was very remorseful for what he
had done. On another occasion, while he was driving a sick boy to the hospital, he asked the
boy what he would like to be when he grew up. Father Charles was expecting he would say a
doctor or a lawyer but much to his amazement, the boy said he would like to be Jesus.
Father Charles was speechless.
Father Charles exhorted that every day is an experience of living in love. Every moment is an
opportunity to love. All we need to do is to be attentive and compassionate to all beings.
*****

27

29th September, 2015 Evening, Sai Anandam, Singapore

Summary of Talk by Sri C. Sreenivas
Sri C. Sreenivas started his speech referring to the Guru Vikas session in the morning as a
miracle morning.

He spoke about how the session was truly education and direction for a lifetime for all the
selected privileged teachers attending the Guru Vikas session. He urged all the teachers to
deeply reflect word-for-word on the finest depiction of education given by Swami in His
Divine Discourse in the morning session.

C. Sreenivas was reminded of his warden days in Sri Sathya Sai College, and how Swami
invested much of His precious time on education. He said the same Voice was now
conveying the same investment in teaching and students, and that would bear so much fruit in
years to come.

He shared the mantra of education that was given to him by Swami. It begins with the heart
that feels all human achievement and endeavours begin and sustain with the heart that feels.
From this comes the journey of education, which teaches us to cultivate the mind that
envisions, and then to develop the capacity to endeavour, and finally the will to achieve.

So, everything starts with the heart that feels.

28

Swami's Divine Discourse

29 September, 2015, Evening, Sai Anandam, Singapore
th

The way a reflection does not stick to the

mirror, the way the water does not affect or
stick to the petals of the lotus flower, in the
same way, sins dont touch or stick to the
person with devotion.
Both wings of a chariot are needed to make it
move; similarly, birth and death are the two
wheels on which this world moves. Even if
one wheel falls apart, the chariot of this world
cannot move. This is the secret of this entire
creation and this is Truth, the word of Sai.
Embodiments of Divinity!
Every person born in this world also comes with another date written on his forehead - the
date when he will leave this world. Just like in a factory, when an object is manufactured, it
comes with a manufacturing date, it also comes with an expiry date. Everything in this world
comes with a date of birth and also, simultaneously, a date of death. In between these dates of
birth and death, what we undertake is the journey of our life. Know for sure that everything
that is born must die, and it is inescapable. But what we do with our lives, alone can make us
immortal. Everything which is made of the five elements must merge back in the five
elements, in due course of time; it cannot remain permanent. However, the good that we do
shall be remembered by the world forever, and can make us immortal. The world is
temporary; youth is temporary; wealth is temporary; this life is temporary; the only things
that are permanent are truth and good name, and nothing else.
As we live our lives in this world, we are influenced by various things. We tend to see what
others are doing around us, and if most of the people are doing the same thing, we think that
its right, and we tend to blindly follow. Even if many people tell an untruth, it cannot become
the truth. Even if a single person speaks the truth, it cannot become untruth. Untruth, even if
spoken by the entire world, shall only remain untruth; and truth, even if it is spoken by a
single person, will always remain the truth. This truth is the word of Sai- that only the good
that we have done to others will remain permanent and make us immortal.
Thousands of kings and queens have ruled the face of the earth they conquered many
territories, amassed a lot of wealth, and had progeny; however, none of them exist today. We
dont even remember the names of such emperors, except for a few which have to be
mandatorily remembered because of history books, otherwise you will fail the exams. We
have forgotten all of them, but still we remember good people, worship them, and draw
inspiration from their lives, to lead good lives.
29

This way, one who realises that something is

temporary, will cease to make unnecessary efforts to
gain it. What good would it do if you put
tremendous efforts to seek something which will not
last? Its like children running behind bubbles of
water; they make bubbles and they run to catch
them. As long as the bubble is floating around, it
looks beautiful, with myriad reflections on its
surface. However, the moment you touch it, it
bursts, the bubble disappears, and along with it, all
reflections that seemed to be so real and beautiful.
Life is just a bubble. The body is a water bubble; do
not follow the body. The mind is a mad monkey; do
not follow the mind. Follow the heart.
This little boy here sang the bhajan Heart is your
Master, follow your heart. Even such a little boy
knows the truth, which elders tend to forget. The
heart is the Master. The heart alone can show you the
truth and take you to your destination.
Nevertheless, in times like these, the people, due to the influence of their minds, only seek to
please the mind and not the heart. They live very superficial lives and are happy with
temporary gains and temporary joys. They dont look deep within for the source of
permanent joy. They are like children who play with a toy, in another moment get bored with
it, and look for another one. They play with the next one, break it and look for yet a third one.
They think the joy lies in the toy, and keep changing it, one after the other, but still, they are
never happy. They forget that joy does not lie in the toy; joy lies within.
Likewise, men and women seek temporary gains in this world. They make relations, they
expand their families, they do myriad different kinds of work, however, at the end of it, they
are never satisfied. Once they are done with one thing, they go for another, thinking that joy
lies in that. Then they go to a third one, and a fourth one, but whatever they do, they are never
completely satisfied. At the end of their lives, they ask themselves: I have led a life like this,
yet why am I not happy? I've done everything to keep myself happy, my family happy, but in
the end, I seem not to be too happy, despite having everything. This troubles them at the last
moment, and then they realise that all that they have gathered around them is not the true
source of happiness, but it is too late to do anything. You have deviated and, gone far away
from the true path. The petrol is over and now you can't come back. You have to wait to
refuel, so you take another birth, and come back again, and start the whole process all over.
Knowing that death is and that all you are trying to gather has to be left behind, alone can
liberate you. If you realise that you cannot take back with you all that you have gathered, then
alone will you lose attachment to everything. If ever your ego and attachment make you run
here and there to amass more, for a moment, take a deep breath, sit in contemplation and
30

think about - the nature of that which will take away everything that you have ever done - and
all your attachments, all your ego will disappear.
In the Mahabharata, there is a
story. When all the Pandavas were
wandering thirstily in the forest,
they wanted to drink water but
there was no pond in sight. They
went searching and found a pond
a little far away. First, the
youngest of them, Sahadeva,
went. He tried to take water from
the pond, but he heard an invisible
voice say, You have to answer
my questions before you take
water from this pond.
He did not bother about answering the question and tried to drink from the pond as he was
thirsty. The water turned into poison and he collapsed. Even after a long time had passed, he
had not returned. So to look for him, came Nakula, the other brother. He also did not pay
heed to the voice, tried to drink the water and he also died. Similar was the fate of Bheema
and Arjuna. Ultimately came Dharmaraja, a man of discrimination and detachment. He came
and the same voice asked him, If you answer my question, only then can you drink this
water, or else your fate will be the same as your brothers.
Dharmaraja asked, What is the question that you need me to answer? The invisible voice
asked, What is the most amusing thing in this world?
Dharmaraja replied, People live as if they are never going to die, and they die as if they have
never lived. They die in regret and remorse that they have wasted entire lifetime given by
God. When they live, they go on accumulating things, as if they are never going to lose all
that they have accumulated. Death is the most certain reality of life, yet nobody wants to
believe in it. Life by itself is temporary, but everybody trusts it. This is the most amusing
thing to me. Yet, knowing the truth, people tend to ignore it. Knowing the untruth, people
tend to embrace it.
For a moment, if we contemplate on the nature of life, immediately our mind will know the
truth, and we will be liberated from the cycle of birth and death. Devotion to God alone can
help you choose to live in a way that, the consequences of your actions, do not stick to you,
like the water that does not stick to the lotus flower, or the reflection in the mirror that does
not stick to the mirror. Daiva preethi, that is, Love for God will lead to Papa bheethi, that is
fear of doing wrong, and Sangha neethi, that is unity of your own thought, word and deed.
This way alone, can you lead your life in the correct manner.
In the morning, I told the teacher training group that, whatever they try to teach, it will be a
waste unless they follow it. Unless you follow, others are not going to bother. If you act,
31

know for sure that children are better actors, and they will make you believe that they have
understood and they are following, but they won't do anything. First, you learn, believe in
these truths and follow them.
It's a short span of time that God gives you on this earth. If you fill every moment with love
for others and serve others, only then will this life be worth living. If you don't start early, and
drive slowly, you cannot reach safely. From a young age, children and young ones must be
taught these values. When they grow up, it is very difficult to change them. When they are
young, they are like soft clay, which can be moulded into any shape. Once they grow up, you
cannot mould them anymore. For that, the teacher, the potter needs to be skilled. He should
know when to start making the pot out of the clay.
Teachers are going to play a
very important role in the
building of nations. They are
not merely teaching students
today, but they are truly
building the entire nation; they
are the architects of the future
of the nation. They must
discharge their duties with
tremendous pride and a
tremendous
sense
of
responsibility.
If a teacher goes wrong, thousands of students will go wrong. If a trains engine goes wrong,
all the bogeys that follow will also meet with an accident. Therefore, teachers are truly
leaders and they are the ones who can lead the nation to prosperity, or doom.
Many of the devotees were not there in the morning, so they may not have understood what C
Sreenivas was talking about. We had a small meeting of a few people from around the world
- from America, London, Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, Australia, and many other countries,
who had come to understand how to develop a programme - Guru Vikas - which will help us
train the teachers so that they then, in turn, can train the students. I told them that the first and
foremost thing is, a teacher's main work is transformation and not merely dissemination of
information. Transformation can be brought about in people only if you are transformed. If
you are not transformed, the students cannot be. You tell the children not to smoke and you
go out of the class and happily puff away to glory - it's not going to make any sense.
When I was a young boy, I made a short drama called Do deeds follow words?
(Cheppinattu Chestara?). In that was a teacher. The next morning there was a school
inspection. Obviously, the inspector was going to ask the students some questions, whether
they had learnt all the chapters and whether the syllabus had been covered, so the teacher
said, "Let us go to this certain chapter," - much ahead of where they were actually - and he
added, "Let us open the chapter on Harish Chandra, the one who always spoke the truth."
32

Then said, "Tomorrow, when the inspector comes, and if he asks which chapter you are in
right now, we are in Harish Chandra, so that it appears we have almost covered the entire
syllabus." He taught that Harish Chandra was a great man of virtue, he always spoke truth,
and never gave up truth, whatever the situation. The boy in the class, Sathya, got up and
asked "You are telling us to speak the truth, you say that Harish Chandra was one who
always spoke the truth, but you yourself are telling us to lie, and to tell the inspector
tomorrow that we are in this chapter, though truly we are not." The teacher got very angry.
He said, "Harish Chandra is good for reading. You don't try to be Harish Chandra!"
Such bookish knowledge is of no use.
Saying one thing, doing another and
thinking something else there is no unity
of thought, word and deed; that is great
sin. Teachers should have unity in what
they think, say and do. I then explained
how you should know the culture of the
place where you belong to. You should
know the epics, you should know your
history, and accordingly you should teach
the children with examples from your own
culture.
Another time, an inspector entered the school. The teacher was teaching a lesson from the
Ramayana. He asked the teacher, "Who wrote the Ramayana?" The teacher did not know. He
asked the student, "Who wrote Ramayana?" The student said, "I did not write it. Since you're
teaching, you would have written it." The teacher said, "I'm teaching, but I did not write it.
Maybe the principal has written it." So they went to the principal and asked, "Principal, did
you write Ramayana?" He said, "I don't think I have written it. Maybe the Education
Department has written it. That is why it is a part of the syllabus." Like this, they kept on
making enquiries. Such type of teachers with absolutely no depth of knowledge are of no use.
Many teachers feel that Swami says they should be good teachers, but just nobility is not
enough; ability is also important. You must be able to teach the knowledge of this world
along with the knowledge of the other world, that is, spiritual knowledge. Half knowledge is
very dangerous. You should have complete knowledge of your subject. You must practise
more before you go to the class. If you have to teach for one hour, you should spend ten
hours on that subject to make it as simple and as easy for the students to understand. Teachers
cannot afford to be lazy. They have to work harder than the students. They have to make the
subject look very simple and not complicate it by unnecessarily quoting from here and there
without any reason.
My teachers should be examples to the others in every possible way.
Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar was a great teacher. He was the embodiment of humility. Once,
when he was traveling by train, he was invited for a conference of teachers like this, in
33

Calcutta. When he got down from the train, a British man also got down. The British man
thought, looking at his simple dress, that he was just a coolie, or a porter, and asked him, "I
need to go to a certain conference. Can you carry my luggage? I will pay you for that."
Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar very humbly picked up his luggage and walked all the way to the
conference hall. The moment they reached the venue, everybody came running with garlands.
The British man thought, "Maybe they want to garland me." But they all went and garlanded
Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar, as he was the guest speaker. It was only then that the British
man realized that he had done a foolish thing. He did not recognize great Ishwar Chandra
Vidyasagar, and he had only humiliated him. So, he fell at his feet. Immediately Ishwar
Chandra Vidyasagar picked him up and said, "Don't feel sad."
He said, "Why did you not tell me that you are the great Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar?"
He replied, If I had told you
that I was Ishwar Chandra
Vidyasagar, you would not
have given me this opportunity
to serve you. I know you
would not have been able to
carry your luggage. You're not
used to it. There were no
porters in sight, so I hid my
identity from you, not to
embarrass you later, but only
to help you reach this place.
This kind of humility was shown by the great Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar, who himself was
from a very poor family, but he built educational institutions, health care institutions, and also
provided drinking water, because his mother had asked him to do so.
Although I did not formally complete My education - I hardly finished my schooling, I love
to see that all children anywhere in the world are not deprived of education. What I have gone
through, others should not have to go through. In our little village, there were no proper
schools. I had to walk miles to go to the school. There were no health care centres. We only
had to have local medicine, which was not guaranteed to work, as it depended on the mood of
the practitioner. We also did not have pure drinking water. The water was full of fluoride, so
it would cause many bone deformations.
Then Mother Easwaramma asked Me, "Can You not help these village people? So many
devotees are coming to You, and they are ready to do whatever You say. Would You not ask
them to help this little village?" Immediately, I agreed to her request. That's how the school,
the hospital, and a little well in the Chitravathi riverbed were begun. From there onwards it
started. Today, all this has happened because of the selflessness of My devotees. They have
followed the path and shown that they have understood there is not much to gain in this
temporary world, but ultimately, the grace of God is most important.
34

The other day I was in Fiji. The devotees had made many arrangements to receive Swami.
The table was full of food, and I remembered that when I was a small child, all I would get
was four balls of ragi for the whole day's meal. I had to walk with this food packed in a small
pouch, out of which two balls of ragi I would share with another friend, who did not even
have that to eat. From those days to today, when I have so much food on My table, I
remembered, all this happened not because I could get a big job, earn a lot of money and buy
all these things for Myself, but because I just lived My life selflessly for the sake of the
others, and that selflessness has attracted everything to Me.
Love selfless love is tremendously powerful. It attracts everything to itself. Everything
follows selfless love. All you need to do is love selflessly, and you will be loved. Give love
and you will get much more love. Love people selflessly, without any expectations, and that
love will tell you what to do with your lives, how to make this span of life, between your
manufacture and your expiry date worth living, and leave behind an inspiration for others to
follow.
Today, as they said, I do not have a body of My own, but your body is My body, your hands
are My hands, your feet are My feet, your eyes are My eyes, your hearts are My hearts, and
through all of you, I'll continue to love and serve everyone else. The more you think like Me,
the more you will become like Me. Constantly engaging in Seva and Prema will make you
like Me, and the world will say, We thought there was only one Sathya Sai Baba, but look
here, there are thousands and thousands of them! Each one of them, though they don't look
like Him, truly represent Him. Then the world will know Me through all of you; the world
will feel Me through all of you. Such a day is bound to come. Be ready to be instruments, and
I will chisel you, I will sharpen you, and I will make you worth using for My Mission. Any
number of talks, discussions and conferences will not help you attain that.
Only a little practice in your daily lives will take you closer to your own Divinity. Therefore,
practice. Practice every moment to be selfless. Practice every moment to be loving. Love
without any sense of duty is Divine. Parents love their children with a sense of duty. That is
love with duty. You, however, must love everybody without any sense of expectations or
duty, then your love will become Divine. Today has been a long programme, and we have to
visit a house as well.

A short Q&A session followed thereafter, where Bhagawan lovingly cleared many
disturbing doubts of the devotees gathered.
Question 1: The Sri Sathya Central Organisation in Singapore has asked that we
deliberate on whether our centre would like to be part of the Organisation and, therefore,
not associate with any activities relating to Muddenahalli; or, if we choose to connect with
Muddenahalli activities, then we cannot participate in any of the Central Organisations
activities. I personally do not dare defy my experience today as being true. This whole
experience is true, but on behalf of the Centre, Swami, please guide us to make the right
decision.
35

Swami: It is not Centre activity, it is not side activity, it is not above activity, it is not below
activity; it is Swami's activity - not Muddenahalli activity, not Prasanthi Nilayam activity, not
Kodaikanal activity. All these are dividing Swami's work into narrow ways. All are Swami's
activities. If you believe this, then there is no difference. You say it is Sai Centre, but Sai
should be the centre of your Centre, isn't it? If you make Sai your centre then everything will
be fine.
The Centre exists is because of Sai. Sai does not exist because of the Centre. Different people
will have different opinions. Just as nobody can breathe for you, nobody can eat for you, and
nobody can sleep for you, you have to do it for yourself, likewise, this decision also, you
have to take for yourself. If you ask your heart, it will tell you the truth, and if you follow
your heart, it will take you to the right path. Therefore, you have to contemplate, follow your
heart, and say, I am here for Swami. I'm here to do Swami's work. That work may be
through a church, like Father Charles does, or through a temple, or through a mosque, or
through any other organization. It does not matter to Me. As long as it is good work, it is
God's work. This narrow-mindedness emerges when you see things as different. When you
see everything as one, then you will not feel confused.
Once there were four friends who had a pet cat. This cat was very dear to all the four friends.
These four friends had a cotton mill, and they would store all the cotton in a go-down. One
day, because it was winter, and cold outside, they were sitting by the fire. The cat had hurt
one of its legs, so they had tied a bandage around it. The cat was also sitting near the fire.
Suddenly, it saw a mouse running, so it jumped here and there, and the bandage caught fire.
Because the bandage caught fire, the cat panicked and it ran into the cotton go-down. As it
was running here and there, all the cotton in the go-down caught fire. Soon, all their wealth
was turned into ashes. All four friends were very angry. However, the four friends had
divided the cat into one leg each. The right-front leg belonged to one friend, the left-front leg
to another, and, similarly, the hind legs belonged to the other two friends.
Now the question came as to who was going to pay for the damages. The three friends who
possessed the legs that were not hurt, said, "Look at this, the fourth leg of the cat has caused
the damage because it was having the bandage which caught fire, and eventually the entire
go-down caught fire. Therefore, the person who owns the fourth leg of the cat must pay for
the damages. They fought and fought without any conclusion. Finally, they went to a very
wise man and asked him what should be the solution. He laughed and said, "According to me,
the fourth leg was hurt; it could not have gone on its own. The three legs that carried the
fourth leg should pay for the damages." If they truly believed that the cat was one and all the
legs belonged to the cat, would they think which leg belonged to whom and who should pay
for the damages? It was their selfishness that divided the legs and made them start blaming
each other for the damage.
The truth is that Swami is just One. Swami's work is all that is important. If Swami, after
leaving the body, has still not given up His mission, why should anyone give up the mission
based on what others say? You should think, feel within yourself and understand what the

36

truth is. Ive always said, Follow the truth, and your heart knows the truth. Make Sai your
Centre and everything will be fine.

Question 2: In the midst of a crisis or a difficult situation, how do we remove the fear and
confusion inside us? How do we genuinely seek the answers from within?
Swami: Everybody knows Sachin Tendulkar, the very great cricketer. They say, even before
the bowler has bowled, he has already hit the ball. He's so sharp! Every single ball is a crisis
for him, every single ball thrown at him is a challenge, but because he has practiced it so
many times, it no more remains a challenge for him when he is actually out on the field. If
you have practiced remaining calm, if you have practiced well how to handle your life, then
whatever be the situation, you will be able to handle it well.
All the waves of the ocean are shaky only on the surface. Deep within, it is calm. Your mind
may run here, there, and everywhere, based on reactions to the things which are happening
around, but your heart is always calm. It knows the truth.
An old wise grandfather, sees the child running here and there, and just watches and smiles.
Similarly, in every crisis or in good times, if you lead your life from your heart, you'll always
be calm. It is the mind which is known to possess this quality of duality and it is the one that
swings between happiness and sorrow, and pain and pleasure. The heart is always like the
deep ocean, calm.
Learn to live by your heart; calm down the mind. A simple tip to remember: the mind is
controlled by the breath. That's why you see that when you get angry, you start breathing fast.
When you get excited, you start breathing fast. However, when you're happy and peaceful,
you breathe slowly. Breath is fuel for the mind. Therefore, in such situations, control your
breath and calm your mind. Let the noises of the mind fade away and diminish, and let the
voice of the heart be heard. If you practice listening to your heart in happy times, youll be
able to listen to it even in difficult situations. Practice will help you deal with the situation
correctly. Those who study throughout the year need not be afraid of the exams; only those
who have not studied will be afraid. Students should be able to say, When the teacher says
Im going to take exams, I should have the confidence to take it now because I am always
ready.

Question 3: How do we guide our mind permanently? We know we have to listen to the
heart, but at times, the mind interferes, especially when we don't want to get drawn into
crossfire with others or into any kind of trouble.
Swami: You should not follow the mind, you should only follow the heart. The mind should
follow the heart. The heart is like the master sitting in the car, the mind is like the driver, and
your body is like the car. The driver should drive the car according to the command of the
master, not according to his own ideas. If the master wants to go to a certain place, the
37

drivers job is to dutifully obey the master and take the car to where master wants to go.
Therefore, always follow the heart; theres no need to follow the mind. The mind needs to
follow the heart - that is what you must ensure. Whatever the heart says, the mind should
know how to do that. Do it in a way which is sweet; you cannot always oblige. Learn to
speak obligingly.
The truth should be spoken, but in such a way that it does not hurt anyone, that sounds sweet.
That way, youll be able to follow your heart without hurting anybody in any situation.
Giving up the heart and following the mind will always lead to accidents. Thus, it is the heart
alone that you need to follow. If theres something that others may not like, use the mind to
say it in a way that will not hurt them. Speak obligingly, even if you cant oblige them.
Your children also are there. Sometimes, they dont listen to you. When you tell them good
things and they don't listen to you, do you leave them alone and tell them to do whatever they
want? No. They may be angry with you for the moment, but eventually, they are the ones
who will benefit.
Therefore, look at the higher good of others, and dont try to please them temporarily. That
temporary joy will lead to permanent pain. Look at what is permanent and not at what is
temporary. Follow the heart only; there is no need to follow the mind. It is the mind which
needs to follow the heart and take the body, and engage it in actions accordingly. Nothing
will go wrong, be assured; when you follow the heart, nothing will go wrong.
Thats all? Very happy. It is not that I want to come here and teach you more and more, but it
is just to motivate you to practise. I am not speaking anything new; I have spoken this many
number of times. The syllabus is just the same; you have to do your homework and come,
then youll understand. A good teacher is not enough; good students are also needed. When
both meet, there is education. Hence, do your homework and I shall teach you, and when we
both work together, then everything will be possible. With Gods grace and mans effort,
there is nothing in this world or the other world that cannot be achieved.
Know that you have limited time; use it well and in a way that will make you dearer to God.
If you are dear to God, you are dear to everyone. Even if you make temporary foes,
ultimately, you will have permanent friends, so, continue to follow your heart. Listen to what
your heart says; that is where God resides; that is the voice of God. Practice, Practice,
Practice. The more you practice, the better you will become. Some people use the right hand,
and the right hand becomes strong. If you use your left hand, the left hand becomes strong.
The more heart you use, the stronger your heart will become. The more mind you use, the
stronger your mind will become. It depends on what you use; therefore, use your heart. Let
the mind follow the heart, and take the body and engage it in actions accordingly.
Today, Father Charles is looking like 'Brother Charles', as he is not wearing his gown. He had
to follow his heart, and only then did he find peace. So long as he was following his mind, it
was in pieces, but the day he followed his heart and took the decision to stick by what his
heart was saying, he found permanent peace. There are enough Fathers like this in the world,
but how many of them even come close to Divinity? They see from far and they are satisfied.
38

They are like flies sitting on the edge of a glass of juice. They all want to taste the juice, but
they are afraid of falling into it. How can you be out and yet taste it? If you have the courage,
you must jump into the sweet juice, and then you will be able to taste it, but they are afraid
that they will die, so they do not progress. And they are happy talking about the juice,
describing it, giving speeches, and organising conferences...no point, no point. Better to
jump, experience and die, than sit on the edge and keep talking about it endlessly.
Swami then asked for Prema Muditha to be sung and the satsang came to a close after
Arathi.

39

Entrance to Swamis Interview Room at Sai

Anandam (Above)
Saree gifts for devotees at His abode (Top Right)
Entrance to Sai Anandam (Bottom Right)
Floral decoration in Swamis personal room (Below)

40

Introduction to Macau Divine Visit, 2nd & 3rd October, 2015

Shared by Brother Ramon Quek
In March 2015, Swami came to me in my vision and told me to go to Kodaikanal for His
Summer Retreat in May. I called Dr. Ravi Pillay in Singapore and asked him for the details
on the venue of the retreat. He said it was at the hilltop bungalow in Kodaikanal.
The month of May has always been a time when Swami gathers His students, teachers and
devotees from India and abroad at Kodaikanal, a hill station in the state of Tamil Nadu in
India. Bhagawan has been running this Summer Retreat for many years in His physical form
to give joy to His beloved students, chosen for their good academic results and disciplined
manners at school.
Our group of six from Australia, Singapore and India arrived in Kodaikanal on 10th May.
The hilltop bungalow is a beautiful and magical place. The vibration, energy and atmosphere
is like heaven on earth perhaps thats the reason our Beloved Swami chose this location as
His Heavenly Retreat for His children on this planet Earth.
Our beloved Swami is ever-gracious and kind to all His children. He gave His divine love
and blessings to all who attended this holy retreat. Swami told me he had called me there to
connect me to His devotees for some work. Whilst we were there, I was guided to sit in the
hall with Dr. Pillay and his group from Singapore, as well as with Mr Gary Seaton from
Australia. On the first day of the retreat, Swami looked at me and said, Australia, you have
come.
The divine discourses that Swami gave in Kodaikanal were full of humour that filled all with
laughter. The wonderful speakers chosen to speak shared their stories with love and joy of
their experiences with Swamis subtle body.
On the second day, Swami asked me when we were going back. I told Him we were planning
to leave on Friday, 15th May after lunch. Swami said He should see us before we left. Whilst
we were waiting to see Swami, Dr. Pillay told me that Swami wanted to visit Hong Kong, but
Dr. Pillay did not know anyone there. I mentioned to him that I knew of a family in Macau
who are Sai devotees. Swami had sent me there on His 85th birthday to help these devotees in
organising Swamis 85th Birthday Bhajans.
Dr. Pillay said maybe Swami would go to Macau instead of Hong Kong this year, and asked
if I could contact the Macau family. I told Dr. Pillay that I would ask Swami when He called
us for the interview to see if He would like to visit Macau and the Chan family.
On Thursday afternoon, at about 4pm, Swami called our group for an interview. We were all
delighted to be called and our Beloved Swami was full of love, like a mother, happy to see
and speak with Her children. Swami spoke to the ladies in our group and said they had all
travelled far to get there and hoped it was not an inconvenience for them. They all replied

41

that they were very happy to be invited to attend this beautiful retreat in Kodaikanal and hope
Swami would call them every year.
Swami spoke to all of us about some personal matters with so much motherly love. We were
filled with joy and bliss to be in His divine presence. I told Swami about what Dr. Pillay had
said to me about His plan to visit Hong Kong, and how Dr. Pillay didnt know any families
there. I asked Swami if He would like to visit the Macau family who had organised His 85th
Birthday Bhajans. Swami said He would be going to Singapore on 25th June and that I could
bring this family and one of their sisters and her family from Perth to see Him there.
After the programme that evening, I met Dr. Pillay and told him that Swami wanted to see the
Macau family in Singapore. When I returned to Perth, I contacted the sister and was told that
her sister and younger brother from Macau were all in town for her eldest daughters
wedding! We arranged a meeting several days later to talk about Swamis proposed visit to
Macau and Swamis invitation to see Him.
The family came to Singapore and was blessed with an interview with Swami at Sai
Anandam. Swami asked them whether they would like to host Him in Macau and they all
happily extended their invitation to the Lord. Swami spoke to them on some personal matters
and informed Dr. Pillay and I to arrange and assist this family for the trip to Macau. Dr.
Pillay, myself and our wives made a trip on 7th August to Macau to assist the Chan family
with the preliminary preparations for His visit on 2nd and 3rd October.
The Chan family are good and simple people who have a lot of love and devotion for Swami.
It is this love and devotion, and their parents good deeds that brought Bhagawan Sri Sathya
Sai Baba in His Subtle Body to Macau.

42

3rd October, 2015, Macau

Summary of Talk By Sri B. N. Narasimha Murthy

Sri BN Narasimha Murthy started his talk by praising the songs sung by the devotees,
especially the children. Although the visitors did not understand the Chinese language in
which songs were sung, they felt the love and devotion for Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
He said that children are always very dear to God and to Divine Masters who come down to
earth, like Bhagawan Sathya Sai Baba, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Sri Rama and Sri Krishna.
When Jesus Christ was asked who the greatest person in the Kingdom of God was, he picked
up a small boy and said the child is the greatest. Whoever humbles himself like a child and
retains the purity and innocence of the heart of a child shall enter the Kingdom of God. Many
men and women, as they grow up, lose their childlike purity and innocence and move away
from God. That is the reason why people become very sad, miserable and face so many
difficulties.
People generally go to God only when afflicted with some sorrow or misery. In times of
success, they forget God. If one remembers God always, no difficulties or sorrows will come
to them. Therefore, it is an important duty of all parents to instil in children, faith in God.
Lao-Tzu said that if youre thinking of the future of your family for one year, sow some corn
in a field. If you are thinking of the future of the village or town for ten years, sow some
trees. If you are thinking of the future of your country for many centuries, sow the seeds of
good character and purity in the hearts of children.
In modern society, many times young people do not respect, love or serve their parents. It is
parents who are responsible for this. Baba always says there are no bad children, only bad
parents and bad teachers. If the parents bring up their children well, and sow the seeds of
devotion, faith and respect for elders, they will naturally grow up to respect their parents.
Where there is true devotion towards God, there will be good character and good behaviour.
That is the basic function of the family. When children are young, parents should take them
towards God. When the children grow up and their parents become old, they should take the
parents towards God. That is the basic function of any family.
In todays world, there are a lot of problems and violence because people have forgotten God.
Buddha and Jesus came at such times when people had forgotten their spiritual yearnings.
This is what Sai Baba did in His physical body and is doing now in the Subtle Form.
How to find God within oneself? How can families live peaceful, happy and prosperous
lives? How can societies progress without fighting and quarrels? How can nations live
harmoniously without wars? This is what Baba teaches us. Baba is not seen, but when He
starts speaking, Madhusudhan will listen and convey what He is saying. We can listen and
understand the wisdom of Sai Baba.

43

When we see the institutions like schools, colleges and hospitals that Swami is establishing
now, we know that it is Sai Baba at work. After Sai Baba left the physical body 4 years ago,
He has established 7 new education institutions. Thousands of young boys and girls are
getting good free and character-moulding education through these schools.
When Baba was in the physical body, He established super speciality hospitals in Puttaparthi
and in Whitefield, where free surgeries are being done. Within a year of giving up His
physical body in 2011, Baba established another super speciality hospital, providing free
heart surgeries for children in central India at a place called Raipur. Small children are
brought from not only all over India, but other poor nations like Bangladesh, Pakistan, and
even Africa to the hospital. About 5000 children have been treated and over 1000 heart
surgeries have been done, totally free of cost.
In July this year, while visiting Nigeria, Sai Baba inaugurated a new church built by a
Christian priest named Father Charles Ogada. Father Charles is also running a school and
orphanage. Baba declared that not only children of India, all children of the world are my
children. Swami announced that He would start a free hospital for children in Nigeria, and
that is now being done there.
Sai Baba is the same God whom we worship in churches, in pagodas, in monasteries and in
temples. Swami is so compassionate and kind to come here and talk to all of you here. You
are all very fortunate. However, do not simply listen - you must practise what Swami says.
Lord Jesus said, If you abide in My worlds, you are truly My disciples. If you practise My
teachings, you will find truth and truth will give you liberation.
Lord Buddha also said the same. When Buddha decided to give up the body, he brought his
dearest disciple, Ananda, alone into the forest. Although it was not the season for the Sala
trees to bear flowers, Ananda saw that the trees had lots of flowers. There was a strong breeze
and the flowers landed on the Buddha. Ananda was very surprised. Buddha revealed that
Mother Nature knew this was his last day on earth, and offered her tribute by showering the
flowers. Buddha accepted it very happily with love. However, this was not what Budhha
expected from people. What did Lord Buddha expect? He expected men and women to
practise what he had taught. He said this was how one could respect and pay their tribute to
him. If they practise the teachings, they will find true joy, happiness and nirvana.
Sri BN Narasimha Murthy concluded his talk by inviting Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba to
speak to the gathered devotees and guide all to find true life, true happiness, true peace, true
prosperity and great harmony in their families and societies.
He also took the opportunity to invite all the devotees for Sai Babas 90th birthday
celebrations in November at Muddenahalli and Puttaparthi and to witness the wonderful
happenings there.
*******

44

Swami's Divine Discourse

3rd October, 2015, Macau
That which is real is
sometimes not seen. That
which is unreal, we can
see. The truth is, there is
only one reality, and He is
God, who is present in
everyone. This is the word
of Truth; the word of Sai.
For everything that is seen,
there is an unseen basis.
Embodiments of Divinity!
As we were coming here, there were many floors to this tall building. If you look at the
numbers, there are 37 floors to this one building. What we see are the 37 floors, which rise
above the ground. However, there is a very deep foundation that supports this tall building
that is not seen. If you come and ask any person how many floors are in this building he will
simply count and say 37 floors; but building is taller than that. For there is an unseen deep
foundation within the earth, which one cannot see with his eyes, and may tend to believe that
it does not exist. However, an engineer or architect will know the truth. When he looks at the
tall building, he will also know that there is a deep foundation below. So, for a man without
knowledge, it might just look like a building; but for a man with knowledge, he will know
that it is a building with a foundation. Likewise, what is witnessed through your eyes is the
world that you see around you. For a man without the knowledge of Divinity, the world alone
seems like reality. However, the one with divine wisdom knows that there is an unseen basis,
God, who is behind this world. Only a man with devotion will see the presence of God and
know the Truth.
For many of you, what you see with your eyes you believe to be the truth. What you cannot,
you believe does not exist. All mothers love their children alot. There is a word for mothers
love mamata. Mothers love cannot be seen. Out of love, whatever she does for you
definitely can be experienced. She prepares tasty food that you like. She dresses you up in
your favourite clothes, and whatever you like, she tries to give to you.
Therefore, there is an experience of mothers love that you all benefit from. Although her
love itself cannot be seen, what love does for you can be seen. Likewise, all that God does for
you can be seen, and that is the way you can experience Gods love.
You all are here not because you have been invited by someone; you are here because you all
have been invited here by Me alone. Many of you come from far off distances, driven by love
for Swami. When you see a kite flying high in the sky, you may not be able to see the thread
that holds it aloft. The kite may go as high as it may, but with one pull of the string, it will
45

come back to its owner. Likewise, you all may be far, in Puttaparthi or different countries, but
there is a connection between you and Me like that of a string and a kite. You are always held
in My hands. So when I want you, I can pull you back to Me anytime. As long as the string of
love exists between you and Me, you cannot go too far. Any moment, as long as I want, you
will come back to Me. As long as you maintain this love, you cannot go far away from Me,
nor can I go far away from you. As much as you want Me, I want you, too.
A mother may have several children, some older, some younger. But for each one, she has
taken equal care to give birth and bring them up. Likewise, all of creation is Gods creation.
God alone is the mother and father who has given birth to the entire humanity. Therefore, at
any point of time, He is equally concerned for all His children. All of them are equally dear to
Him. You may be in India, China, Australia or America or whichever country you belong to;
the sun that reflects in a pond in China is the same sun that reflects in the river in Australia;
and it is the same sun that reflects in the oceans. By looking at the different sun, one may
think that they are different. It is not true. It is the same God that takes care of you.
There is no different God. It is He alone who reflects in all the pure hearts of devotees. Then
why are we not able to experience or see God? A little effort is required to see or experience
anything. Even if a mother prepares a delicious meal on the table, the food wont go into your
mouth on its own. Some effort is needed to take the plate of food, put the food in your mouth,
eat and digest. Without the effort, even if the food is there outside, it will not satisfy your
hunger inside. A little effort will help you satisfy your hunger.
Similarly, to experience and understand God, you have to put in some effort. In a pool of
water which is dirty, you cannot see your reflection. Only in pure waters can you see your
reflection. A pool of pure water which is still will reflect the sky. Only if the water is clean
and still, can you see the sky and the stars in it. In water that is shaky and dirty, you will not
see the reflection. Likewise, God is experienced only in a heart that is pure.
What is purity? Absence of all kinds of selfishness is purity. Only a selfless person is truly
pure. God is revealed to the one who is selfless. Others may think that God exists, but they
will not be able to experience Him. Therefore, develop purity, develop selflessness.
You may think you have families to look after and businesses to run. How then can you be
totally selfless? If you look after your children, your family, and your business, is this not
selfishness? As long as you think they are all yours, then it is selfishness. If you think all this
is given by God, all this belongs to God, then selfishness will disappear. If you think your life
is given to you by God, and through this life, the children that you have, the family that you
have, all these also belong to God, then all that you do, youre doing for Gods sake. Whether
youre looking after your family, earning your livelihood, or running your businesses,
everything is for the sake of God. Likewise, if you think everything you do is for the sake of
God, all work will become selfless and pure.
You all know that every action has a reaction. Hence, whatever action you perform, you will
have to bear the consequences someday. You cannot sow an orange seed and expect an apple
tree. Likewise, you cannot sow selfish things and expect selfless love. Whatever you sow,
46

that is what you will reap. If all that you do is for the love of God, than you will get Gods
love in return. Thus, spirituality is not very difficult. Reaching God is not very difficult.
Even if you want to reach from here to another place, you will meet with a lot of traffic jams
and be delayed. However, you can reach God faster because He is right there within you.
Even then, you are not able to see, although we are in the same room, because there is no
light. Even in a dark room where two people sit, they will not be able to see each other. If,
however, you light the lamp of love, with that light, you can see the presence of God in your
heart. Therefore, spirituality is just selfless love.
All the religions are like rivers that finally merge in the ocean. The only purpose of all
religions is to take man to the ocean, which is God. All religions teach the same principle
Love All, Serve All. Jesus also said, All are One, be alike to everyone. Buddha also said,
Help Ever, Hurt Never. When you know that everyone is a reflection of yourself, you will
not hurt anyone.
Today, for this function, we have rented a place. You know that as long as you are in this
town you will pay the rent. And when you leave, you will give back the apartment. In the
same way all these bodies are given by God on rent. As long as we pay Him this rent of love,
He will allow us to continue using these bodies; but one day we have to return this body to
God and go back to our real home. That is certain and cannot be avoided.
So long as you have this body and this wonderful life, use it well for the sake of others. All
you want in your life is joy. You do everything for the sake of happiness. However, the secret
of 'JOY' is: 'J' - Jesus first, that is, God first; 'O' - others next; and 'Y' - that is, yourself last.
As long as you keep God first, others next and yourself last, you will always be full of joy.
When you become selfish and place yourself before others that is when misery comes. I
have come here to tell you that the only way you can always be happy permanently is by
making others happy.
We all chant Samastha Lokah Sukhino Bhavanthu (may all the beings in all the worlds have
happiness and peace). How can they all be happy unless we make them happy? By merely
chanting, they can never be happy. Only when we serve with love can they be happy.
I have not come here without a purpose. Soon, I am going to come back as Prema Sai Baba.
In very short time, I will travel the entire world and there will be Sai Baba centres coming up
all over the world. You all will be part of the next mission, too.
Be blessed by serving and loving others by being a part of Swami, which is the mission of
love. From this very moment, decide that every day, you will perform at least one act of
selfless love - by deeply praying for someone, by saying a kind word to someone, by having
the patience to listen to somebody in need, sharing anything that you have that others do not.
A selfless act every day will keep the ego away. Therefore, begin today, begin now, do not
postpone.

47

Many people think God is for

old age. When youre old and
have nothing else to do, you
then
remember
God.
However, when you are old,
you will think you have
already become old and there
is not enough time to think of
God! You may suffer every
kind of disease and problems,
may not get food to eat, and
may not sleep well; then how
will you remember God?
A very miserly man was suffering because his roof was leaking in the rain. People said,
Why dont you repair the roof of your house and save yourself this problem? He was so
miserly that he did not want to spend on the repairs. So he told his friends, You see, it is the
rainy season. How can I repair the roof now? When the rain stops, I will repair the roof. So,
when the rainy seasons passed and it was the dry season, friends told him to repair the roof.
Then he said, Now it is not raining. What is the point of repairing the roof?
Likewise, in young age, you think you will do it when you come to old age. When you
become old, you have no time left to think of God. Do not postpone good things. When a
good thought comes to mind, do it immediately. When a bad thought comes, keep on
postponing it. In India, a lot of businessmen look for an auspicious time to start a new
business. For any good work, they want to take out a good day and time to start, and
sometimes wait for days to start some good work. However, when a bad thought comes, they
dont look for the time and date, they do it immediately. They dont need an auspicious time
and date to do some bad work, they do it then and there!
You should not be like that. If a pure, good and selfless thought comes to mind, do it then and
there. If a bad thought comes, it should be postponed forever until it disappears.
All of you, after this meeting, should definitely feel that you should become better and more
Divine. Dont postpone the thought. Start today. Start now. Therefore, I bless you all to lead
such lives of selflessness, lives of love, helping each other, serving each other, making others
happy, and making yourself happy.
There are songs in the air, but you cannot hear them. You need a radio to tune into the station
to hear the songs. There are programs going on, being broadcasted all the time. However, you
need a TV to switch on and see the programs. Likewise, God is around all the time, wanting
to talk to you. However, you have to switch on your mind, tune in to God, and think of God then you will be able to communicate with Him.

48

All of you have got this

radio of mind with you.
Only if you tune it to God,
will you hear Gods voice. If
you tune it to the world, you
will only hear worldly news.
So, slowly, in everything
you think, say, or do, tune in
to God. That is the only way
you can tune into Gods
station and feel Him all the
time.
Is there anything that you want to ask?

A short Q&A session followed thereafter, where Bhagawan lovingly answered the
questions of devotees gathered.
Question 1: I read some Buddhist books and I have a question that many people want to
ask. When bad people have bad fortunes, we can accept it, but what happens when good
people have bad fortunes? Is that because of the Law of Karma? Because of what they did
in their previous lives?
Swami: What you sow is what you reap. Sometimes, what you do today will have an
immediate result, and sometimes it will take time to see the consequences. If you hit the
table, it will hit you back. If you sow a seed today, it will take years to give you fruits. If you
eat food now, it will take 2 hours to digest. Likewise, every action has a response time or a
reaction time. Therefore, whether you are good or bad, whatever you have done in the past
will come back to you. It is not that good people alone have bad fortunes. In fact, if you are
truly good, you will not differentiate between pleasure and pain. You will see everything only
as good. Everything is for your good.
In the old times, people used to go hunting in the forest. There was once a great king called
Akbar who wanted to go hunting. He had a wise minister called Birbal. Birbal told Akbar,
Everything that happens is for our own good. While cutting apples, the king cut his finger
and was in deep pain. Birbal told him this was also for his own good. The king became very
angry and put Birbal in prison.
The day came when the king had to go hunting. He went into the forest for the expedition and
left this minister in jail. It so happened that the king lost his way and got separated from his
troop. A group of tribal men caught the king and took him to their chief. That day was a
special day for these tribal people. It was a festival day and they wanted to sacrifice a man
and offer him to their god. They were happy that they found the king and tied him up,
checking whether he was perfect to offer to their god. They found that his finger was cut and
49

decided that he was not perfect and could not be offered. The king was released and returned
to his kingdom. He immediately released Birbal and asked him, You told me that my finger
being cut was good for me. Truly, it was good. I got saved from the tribals. How was it good
for you sitting in the prison all this time? Then the wise minister replied that if he was fine,
he would have gone into jungle with the king. They would have sacrificed me instead of
you. So it was good for you as well as good for me. The minister could have lamented why
he was in prison and whether he had done something wrong. However, God knew that if he
was outside, he would suffer. Therefore, He put him in the prison.
Sometimes, what we see or understand as a difficulty or bad fortune might be a good thing
for us. At least, if nothing else, it makes us pray to God. During difficult times, we pray
harder and more sincerely. You see these children - if they didnt have exams they wouldn't
study. They will keep on playing, however much you called them. However, when exams
come, they all study, and that is how they get knowledge and marks. The same way, bad
times are like exams for you. That is when you should gather all your courage and strength,
face your troubles courageously, pass these difficult exams, and get good marks and good
name for yourselves. Hence, welcome whatever God has given, good or bad; everything is
for your own good.

Question 2: How can Brother Madhusudhan see Sai Baba?

Swami: Do you watch cartoons on TV? Where are the cartoons? Are they living inside the
TV? How do you see them if they are not inside the TV? The cartoon program is broadcasted
from a TV station. When you switch on the TV and put on the cartoon channel, you can see
the cartoons. If you put on another channel, you will see another program, isnt it?
If you put on the God channel, you will see God. He has put on the God channel; that is
why he can see God. You can also put the God channel on your TV and you can also see
God.
You are only interested in the cartoon, what can I do? Therefore, pray to God, Give me the
channel of Yours so that I can see this channel and see and feel You. However, if you want
to watch the God channel you have to switch off the cartoon channel. You cannot see both at
the same time. You have to sacrifice something to get something else. You cant see two
things at the same time.
So, when you pray only for God, you will also see Him, just as when you turn on the TV, set
the right channel and see the right program. How do you put on this channel? If you share
and love everybody, Swami will give you the power to see this channel wherever you go.
Practice that.

Question 3: Swami, when You were in Your body, we used to go to Puttaparthi and were
quite attached to Your body. Now You are in Your Subtle Form, we are trying very hard to
50

go within to see You in our hearts. In Your subtle body, You are traveling and You send us
to all these satsangs. In a way, we become attached to the subtle form, even though we
cant see You. I am a bit confused as to how we can see You within, while part of the time,
we are actually going to all these satsangs, looking at Your chair, and hoping that maybe
well see a footprint or Your shadow or something just to give us that joy.
Swami: If a thorn pricks your foot, you use another thorn to remove it isnt it? If you remove
the first thorn with the second thorn, you will be at peace. If, however, you remove the first
thorn and put the second thorn in its place, the pain will remain. Likewise, if you have to
come from the ground floor to the second floor, you have to go through the first floor.
Ground floor to first floor, first floor to second floor.
From My physical frame, I came to let you understand what God is like, what love is like that is the ground floor. Otherwise, you would have never understood what God is like, how
He feels like, what love is like. God would have remained in your imagination all your life.
He came in the physical form to make you understand what God is what Gods love is.
However, the only thing you thought about was to go and see Him in Puttaparthi. Buy a
ticket, visa, and passport and go all the way and have darshan and come back. First you saw
Him outside; that is physical body. Now you have to see Him within; that is the subtle body.
This also requires a passport, visa and ticket: Purity of thought is your visa; selfless service is
your ticket; then you should see Him within.
The third floor is when you see Him in every person around you. Therefore, you have come
here not to see Me on the chair; but to feel Me within yourselves - that should be the
expectation from this satsang. At this stage, if you think you can understand the formless
God, it is still not possible. Before ice can become water vapor, it has to become water. Ice is
like the physical form; after some progress, it becomes water. Eventually, it will become the
formless vapor. However, if you want to reach there directly, it is very difficult to see God in
everything, everywhere, all the time. In this step, He is only teaching not to look for Him in
one place; you can look for Him within. If this boy can do it, everybody can also do it, for all
are equal in Gods love. Unless all your thoughts, all day long, all through the year are only
on God, you cannot experience Him within. It is not like going for 3 days to Puttaparthi,
seeing Him for 3 days, and then coming back and spending the days the way you want. Now,
365 days of the year, you must concentrate on Him, feel Him, serve Him, love Him and then
feel Him inside you.
Whatever you see outside is actually formed inside your eye. For a blind man, even if the
world exists, he cannot see, because it is the eye that sees the world outside. Likewise, I am
not outside. You have to form the image of My form inside you. With the inner vision, you
will see Me anywhere. To go from total form to total formlessness is very difficult. It has to
go stage by stage. Be attached to Swami - there is nothing wrong in it. First you found Him in
the physical form outside you, now you found Him in the subtle form within you, and
eventually you must feel Him as a formless form in everybody around you.

51

That should be the expectation with which you should come to these satsangs. When I was in
the physical form, I did not tell you to concentrate on anything. I just told you to witness Me
and feel My love. That was correct then.
Now I am telling you to feel Me inside you. Purify your hearts. Think only of Me, and do
everything for My sake all throughout the year; not just as a one-off service on some special
days. Eventually, if you practice this, you will feel My love in every place and every being.
Set your expectations right.

Question 4: Christians hope that after they die

they go to heaven, while some may go to hell.
Buddhist talk about the Western pure land
where good people go and also about hell.
When I read Babas books, He talks about now
and not much about heaven or hell. So what
exactly happens when people die?
Swami: Just as there are so many countries existing on earth, there are many places that exist
beyond what we see. A person standing in India may not be able to see China, because his
physical eyes cannot reach that far. Only if somebody has gone to China and returned, can he
say that China exists.
Likewise, America also exists, but you cannot see America, sitting in China. If somebody has
visited America and come back and told you in China, then you will know about it. Similarly,
if you go to America, you will also know that there is an America, there is an India, and they
all exist. Similarly, when you are living in this body, you can only see things which are
possible to be experienced through the body. However, there are worlds that exist beyond
this. There are many worlds that exist which are known only to the yogis, for they have
travelled back and forth and they have seen and known other worlds, too. So, when you are
living in this world, your experience is limited.
Just as when you are sitting in the room, you cannot see beyond these walls. However, a
whole city exists outside. While you have a human birth, you have human experiences. Once
you leave the body, the soul and mind still continues. We are three body, mind and soul.
When the body is given up, mind and soul still continue. Just as drunkards will make friends
with drunkards, and saints will make friends with saints, a good mind will find other good
minds to live with, and a bad mind will find bad minds to live with.
So, the minds that are impure, selfish, and greedy, will all huddle together in a place called
hell. All the good minds that have left the body will gather together in a place called heaven.
What do they do when they meet there? They discuss what they have done in their lives what they have done right, what they have done wrong. They learn from it. Just as after
doing homework we come back to the classroom again, they take another birth and come
back to the school.
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For younger ones to understand easily,

this world is like a school. After you
finish the day at school, you learn
many things, you go home, do your
homework and the next day you come
back to the school again. As long as
you keep doing your homework and
learning your lessons, you will be
promoted to the next class.
However, if you dont do your homework, you will fail and you will keep coming to the same
place and doing the same things. The admissions in the school are limited. There are only a
few children who can study, while others have to wait. Like that, this mind and soul keep
waiting to take another body, to come back and learn the lessons. Therefore, all these things
exist, but only when you get to that state; like when you travel to China, you can see China.
Only when you get to that state, you can experience that state. Everything depends on what
you do here.
It is good enough to know that hell feels miserable, and heaven feels happy. If you do good
and make others happy, you will always be happy. If you do not, you have to go through
difficulties. Thinking that this is all there is, and there is nothing beyond it, is just
foolishness. If you think that you can do whatever you want and get away without
consequences, it is not going to happen. That is why I always say, See good, do good, be
good, that is the way to God. Dont be like little children, arguing that other countries dont
exist because we dont see them. Know that all these exist, and you must experience it based
on the deeds that you do in this world.
Chinese people know about these things quite well. They have many rituals to pray for the
departed souls so that they may reach heaven and be at peace. This has been known to man
from ancient times. Still, some people can make this present world hell with their selfishness.
They dont have to go somewhere to experience hell; they can experience hell here itself by
making their lives miserable. Forget about all that. All you need to remember is that to love
everyone is heaven, and to hate everyone is hell.
I am there inside each one of you. Instead of looking for Me outside, look within, where I am.
Sit down in your meditation and think of Me constantly, and I will respond to all your
questions. I will guide you from within. You dont have to go anywhere. Until you have
reached that stage, just as a little child needs its mothers help to take steps or walk, get help
from the people who know, but ultimately you have to walk yourself, by practice.
****

53

A childrens performance on the

occasion of Swamis Visit to Macau.

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