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Republic of the Philippines

CONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES


SENATE
Pasay City

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF
PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS
(BLUE RIBBON)
DATE

Tuesday, April 19, 2016

TIME

10:30 a.m.

VENUE

Session Hall
2nd Floor, Senate of the Philippines
Financial Center, Roxas Boulevard
Pasay City

AGENDA

INVESTIGATION INTO THE ALLEGED US$100


MILLION THAT WAS LAUNDERED IN THE
PHILIPPINES

ATTENDANCE
SENATORS:
HON.
HON.
HON.
HON.

TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III - Chairman


JUAN PONCE ENRILE
- Minority Floor Leader
SERGIO R. OSMEA III
PAOLO BENIGNO BAM AQUINO IV

GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:
Atty. Marissa O. Cabreros

Assistant Commissioner for Legal


Service, Bureau of Internal
Revenue (BIR)

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS


(BLUE RIBBON)
Tuesday, April 19, 2016
Page 2

Mr. Nestor A. Espenilla Jr.

Deputy Governor, Bangko Sentral


ng Pilipinas (BSP)
Mr. Manuel Huberto B. Gaite
- Commissioner, Securities and
Exchange Commission (SEC)
Atty. Emmanuel F. Dooc
- Commissioner, Insurance
Commission (IC)
Ms. Julia C. Bacay-Abad
- Executive Director, Anti-Money
Laundering Council (AMLC) Secretariat
Mr. Eugene Manalastas
- Chief Operating Officer, Philippine
Amusement and Gaming
Corporation (PAGCOR)
Mr. Raymundo C. De Guzman
- PAGCOR Representative for Midas
Hotel and Casino
Mr. Lorenzo V. Tan
- President and Chief Executive
Officer, Rizal Commercial Banking
Corporation (RCBC)
Mr. Raul Victor B. Tan
- Executive Vice President/Treasury
Group Head, RCBC
Atty. Ma. Celia Fernandez-Estavillo- Head, Legal and Regulatory Affairs
Group, RCBC
Ms. Maia Santos Deguito
- Former Branch Manager, RCBC-Jupiter
Branch
Ms. Angela Ruth S. Torres
- Former Customer Relations Officer,
RCBC-Jupiter Branch
Mr. Dennis Bancod
- Operations Head, RCBC
Atty. Alvin Go
- Head and Chief Legal Counsel, BDO
Unibank, Inc.
Ms. Alice Z. Cordero
- 1st Senior Vice President, Global
Compliance Group, Philippine National
Bank (PNB)
Ms. Bernadette Ratcliffe
- Chief Compliance Officer, EastWest
Banking Corporation
Atty. Benedicto M. Valerio
- Corporate Secretary, EastWest Banking
Corporation
Mr. Lauren Anthony Escobar
- Business Sales Officer, Grepalife
Financial, Inc.
Ms. Salud Bautista
- President, Philrem Service
Corporation
Mr. Michael Bautista
- Philrem Service Corporation
Mr. Mark Palmares
- Messenger, Philrem Service
Corporation
Ms. Katherine Aquino
- Truth Verifier Systems, Inc.
Mr. Renato E. De Jesus
- Public Notary
Mr. Kam Sin Wong a.k.a. Kim Wong - Eastern Hawaii Leisure Company Ltd.

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS


(BLUE RIBBON)
Tuesday, April 19, 2016
Page 3

Atty. Silverio Benny J. Tan

Atty. Katrina L. Nepomuceno

Mr. Adrian Au

Mr. Jomini Nazareno


Hon. John Gomes

Mr. Zakir Hossain

Mr. Abdur Rab

Atty. Eduardo Escao

Corporate Secretary, Solaire Resort


and Casino Manila
General Counsel, Leisure and
Resorts World Corporation (LRWC)
Vice President, Finance and
Treasurer, City of Dreams Casino
Melco Crown Philippines
Ambassador, Peoples Republic of
Bangladesh
Deputy General Manager, Accounts
and Budgeting Department,
Bangladesh Bank
Joint Director, Bangladesh Financial
Intelligence Unit (BFIU),
Bangladesh Bank
Goldmoon Junket Solaire Resort

SENATORS STAFF:
Atty. Nicholai Noel B. Lazaro
Ms. Judith Lee
G.H. Ambat
Ms. Khristine Joy E. Pulumbarit
Mr. George A. Dolocanog
Atty. Dante Xenon B. Atienza
Ms. Giselle Anne B. Campos
Mr. Reynold Evangelista
Mr. Ronyll Mendoza
Mr. Julius Gumibao
Mr. Virgilio Terre
Atty. Valerie A. Joy Brion
Atty. Patricia Rebao
Mr. Ryan Martin Macalatan
Mr. Doni Capuyan
Ms. Kathreena D. Tan
Ms. Joan Dairo-Revoltar
Mr. Ricardo Calimag
Ms. Ma. Clarissa Lopez
Ms. Cecile Palines

O/S
O/S
O/S
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O/S
O/S
O/S
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O/S
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Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Enrile
Enrile
Enrile
Pimentel
Pimentel
Pimentel
Osmea
Osmea
Osmea
Binay
Binay
Aquino

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS


(BLUE RIBBON)
Tuesday, April 19, 2016
Page 4

SENATE SECRETARIAT:
Atty. Rodolfo Noel S. Quimbo

Atty. Agapito Rene S. Conchu

Atty. Sarah Lou Y. Arriola

Ms. Susan M. Chua

Atty. Fritzie Jane A. Aduna


Ms. Divina Gracia V. Ramos
Mr. Reonardo Ramirez Jr.
Ms. Joyce Ramos
Ms. Merlene J. Palaganas
Mr. Guillermo E. Sapinoso Jr.
Ms. Jennifer L. Flores
Ms. Rosemarie J. Ortiz
Ms. Cindell B. Gealan
Ms. Helen S. Gayapa
Ms. Maribel P. Mendoza
Ms. Anna Leah C. Catimbang
Ms. Nida A. Mancol
Mr. Rommel P. Alger
Ms. Jo B. Cadaing
Ms. Sherill M. Villadiego
Ms. Marivic H. Ulep
Ms. Cleofe P. Caturla
Ms. Jocelyn A. Dela Cruz
Ms. Cecilia T. Sotto
Ms. Christine M. Nery
Ms. Araceli D. Masicap
Ms. Carolina F. Driz
Ms. Maybelle H. Balagne
Ms. Susana Grace L. Robles
Ms. Rosalinda J. Catadman
Ms. Ma. Emperatriz L. Novero
Ms. Cristina D.C. Astrero
Mr. Ronnie Cabaero
Mr. Menardo Bago
Mr. Emerson Carreon
Mr. Reginald Mendoza
Ms. Abigael Olson

Director General, Blue Ribbon


Oversight Office Management
(BROOM)
Director III, Assessment and
Monitoring Service, BROOM
Director III, Investigation Service,
BROOM
Director II, Assessment and
Monitoring Service, BROOM
Staff, BROOM
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Committee Stenographer
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Legislative Page
- do
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COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS


(BLUE RIBBON)
Tuesday, April 19, 2016
Page 5

Ms. Laarni Vidal


Ms. Gina R. Tolentino
Ms. Rechilda Gascon

Mr. Norberto Villanueva


Mr. Clinton S. Martinez

- do
- do
Director III, Senate Tax Studies
and Research Office (STSRO)
Director II, STSRO
Supervising Legislative Staff
Officer II, STSRO

(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND


INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)
MJPalaganas
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April 19, 2016
11:18 a.m.
1

AT 11:18 A.M., HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III,


CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE, CALLED THE HEARING
TO ORDER.
THE CHAIRMAN.

The hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon

Committee is hereby called to order.


Good morning, everyone.
Before anything else, I would like to acknowledge the senators
who are present at this moment in the plenary hall.
I would like to acknowledge the presence of Senator Juan Ponce
Enrile, the Minority Floor Leadergood morning, sir.
Let us then acknowledge the resource persons who are here:
For the Bureau of Internal Revenue, we have Atty. Marissa Cabreros,
assistant commissioner for Legal Service, BIRgood morning, maam.
For the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas, we have Deputy Governor
Nestor Espenilla Jr.good morning, sir.
For

the

AMLC,

the

Commission

proper,

the

Insurance

Commission, Atty. Emmanuel F. Dooc.


MR. DOOC.

[Off-mike] Good morning.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Good morning, sir.

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND


INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)
MJPalaganas
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April 19, 2016
11:18 a.m.
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The executive director of the Anti-Money Laundering Council, Ms.


Julia Bacay-AbadWhere are you? Oh, there you are, right in front of
me. Okay. Good morning, maam.
Pagcor represented by Mr. Eugene Manalastas.
MR. MANALASTAS.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Good morning, sir.

Good morning.

Pagcor representative for Midas, Mr. Raymundo De Guzman


yes, good morning.
For RCBC, we have presidentMr. Lorenzo Tangood morning,
sir.
And the EVP, the head of the treasury group, Mr. Raul Victor B.
Tangood morning, sir.
Of course, Atty. Maria Celia Estavillogood morning, maam.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Good morning, sir.

Mr. Reymart Marbella, Mr. Romualdo

Agarrado, and Ms. Pinky Macaalaygood morning.


Youre here? Okay, thank you.
PNB represented by Ms. Alice Corderogood morning, maam.
BDO represented by Atty. Alvin Gogood morning, sir.

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND


INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)
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April 19, 2016
11:18 a.m.
3

EastWest represented by Atty. Benedicto Valerio and Ms.


Bernadette Ratcliffegood morning. Yes, there you are.
Okay. Philrem, Mr. and Mrs. Salud Bautista.
Mr. Concon Bautista, are you feeling better?
Mark Palmares, are you here?okay.
Solaire represented by Atty. Benny Tangood morning.
Goldmoon Junket Solaire Resort, Atty. Eduardo Escaoyes,
good morning.
Melco Crown Philippines, Atty. Katrina L. Nepomuceno.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.

Your Honor, I am representing Midas

Hotel and Casino.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay, Midas din. Thank you.

Melco Crown Philippines, Adrian Au and Jomini Nazareno


Attorney, good morning.
MR. NAZARENO.

Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Good morning.

Maia Santos Deguitogood morning, maam.


Angela Torresgood morning.
Mr. Lauren Anthony Escobargood morning.

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And the representative of the Truth Verifier System, Inc., Ms.


Katherine Aquinogood morning, maam.
We also have Atty. Renato E. De Jesus.
Okay, one administrative
Yes, good morning, sir.
Yes, administrative matter before we proceed.
All those who are here as resource persons and who have not yet
taken their oath, please stand. The Director General is
Before that, we would like to recognize the presence of Senator
Bam Aquinogood morning, sir.
SEN. AQUINO.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Thank you.

THE DIRECTOR GENERAL.

To those who are here for the

first time, could you please stand and raise your right hand? Those
who are here for the first time, raise your right hand.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth in this proceeding?
Kindly nod to say yes.
Thank you. You may take your seats.
[The following resource persons took their oath and replied in the
affirmative: Ms. Aquino, Mr. Palmares, and Mr. De Jesus.]

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND


INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)
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April 19, 2016
11:18 a.m.
5

We also see Mr. Gaite has arrived, representing the Securities


and Exchange. Yes, good morning, sir.
Okay. Before we proceed to the heart of the matter which is the
Philrem group, the group that was tasked to make the report of the
junket operator. What group was thatthere are two groups, right?
Goldmoonam I correct? And the other is
MR. ESCAO.

Your Honor, for Goldmoon, we have already

submitted our report.


THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. ESCAO.

Yes, yes. The other one.

The other one is from Suncity.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. S. TAN.

Suncity, are you here?


He is not around yet, Your Honor. But I

understand they will be submitting a report today.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes. They said they would submit it within

one week.
MR. S. TAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Will he be coming over? Is he just late or will

he not be coming?
MR. S. TAN.

I understand they will be coming over, Your

Honor.

10

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THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

RCBC, in pageyou undertook to submit copies of your empty


999s.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, we have submitted
them together with everything actually that we submitted to AMLC.
They are all in the file.
THE CHAIRMAN.

To AMLC.

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Which were submitted to the

Senate, Your Honor, as I understood.


THE CHAIRMAN.

By AMLC?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes, sir.

But I understood that all the records pertaining to all the four
accounts were there.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Thank you. But let us just confirm.

Ms. Abad, has it been submitted to the Blue Ribbon?


MS. ABAD.

I understand there were documents that have

been submitted by RCBC to the AMLC. But I am not sure if this is the
same documents that the honorable Senator is referring to.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Maybe can we just have a copy of everything

that you submitted to AMLC?

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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
THE CHAIRMAN.

All right, Your Honor.

Thank you.

And for the BSP, in the last hearing, Governor Espenilla, in the
discussion about the penalties of the banks in relation to the charter of
the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas, we were talking about a 30,000 per
transaction or 30,000 per day penalty, if you remember correctly?
MR. ESPENILLA.
THE CHAIRMAN.

That is correct, Mr. Chairman.


Okay. And you did commit that you would

make some submissions with regard to some changes that you wish
not only for the Bangko Sentral charter but also for the Anti-Money
Laundering.
MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, on that point, for the BSP,

we have prepared recommendations for consideration of the Monetary


Board and the Anti-Money Laundering Council, Mr. Chairman. We are
just completing our internal process but well be able to offer those
recommendations, Mr. Chairman, as early as next week to the AntiMoney Laundering Council/mjp

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April 19, 2016
11:28 a.m.
1

MR. ESPENILLA. to the Anti-Money Laundering Council.


THE CHAIRMAN. Next week?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, because
THE CHAIRMAN. We wont hold you to that deadline but more
or less indicative.
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, what we will do is after the
Monetary Board has cleared our recommendations, it will be submitted
to the Anti-Money Laundering Council for its consideration as part of
the set of amendments to be recommended for consideration of
Congress.
THE CHAIRMAN. I see, you make it pass through the Monetary
Board first.
MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE.

I was not here the last hearing.

What is this

30,000?
THE

CHAIRMAN.

Governor

Espenilla,

could

you

please

elaborate?
MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

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The BSP was queried as to what are the limits in terms of the
monetary penalties that the BSP may impose.

I clarified, Mr.

Chairman, that under the existing BSP charter, we are limited by law
to impose a maximum of 30,000 per day per violation, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE.

What is the basis of the imposition of this

maximum penalty? That is the upper part of the range of penalty that
you can exact. What led you to go to that limit, to the upper limit?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, I was just answering what
is the limit
SEN. ENRILE. No, I am asking you, you are a part of policymaking and you are suggesting a policy that you will have to exact the
maximum penalty, and the question that enters immediately to my
mind, what caused that?
MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, we suggested that there

should be some review of the upper limit because, for example, in the
situation at hand, in the money laundering case, for example
SEN. ENRILE. Are you suggesting that the banking system has
become deteriorated to such an extent that you have to exact the
maximum penalties so that you can control the situation, or are you
suggesting that you have become so inefficient that you have to exact
the maximum penalty in order to make your efficiency higher?

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April 19, 2016
11:28 a.m.
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MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, the amount of 30,000 per


day in comparison to the size of the transaction is actually very small.
And the context of that discussion, Mr. Chairman, was that one of the
senators cited the large amounts of penalties that are actually being
imposed in other jurisdictions.

I was just responding to that, Mr.

Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. Very small, you said. But that is precisely the
rangethat range was intended by the government to exact severity in
relation to exact situations, isnt it? That is the purpose of that, from
zero to 30,000.

That gradation is based on the severity of the

situation according to the perception of the regulator. And I am asking


you now, since you have gone to the upper limit and probably want to
go beyond, is that a sign that your system has become uncontrollable
or that there is something wrong with your system?
MR. ESPENILLA. There is nothing wrong with the system, Mr.
Chairman, the penalty is meant
SEN. ENRILE. Why are you increasing the penalties?
MR. ESPENILLA.

It is meant for those who violate the rules,

Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. Yeah, if you are efficient and you cannot control
the situation, you dont have to impose a penalty because everybody

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will be complying. Then, if your efficiency becomes deteriorated you


increase it over zero until you reach the maximum range of 30,000,
that is the limit established by law, by the policy formulators. And that
is why I am asking what is the impelling reason for going beyond to
that upper limit and beyond? Is that just an arbitrary decision or is it
based on a substantial cause?
MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, the amount of penalty

prescribed by law is meant to be a deterrent and to promote


compliance with the law, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga eh, tinatanong ko, marami bang hindi
nagko-comply? Marami bang gumagawa ng kalokohan? Marami bang
hindi

sumusunod?

Dahil

diyan

ay

ipinapataw

ninyo

iyong

pinakamabigat na parusa, ganoon ba? O ito ay kuwan lang, joke only,


like some candidates are saying the direct jokes only?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, we recommend imposition
of the maximum penalty when the situation warrants
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Bangko Sentral, bakit nga ipinapataw ninyo
iyong maximum penalty? Bakit? What is the immediate, primary and
effective cause?

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MR. ESPENILLA. When the situation is grave, Mr. Chairman, in


such that there is a possible damage to the system or affecting the
institution.
SEN. ENRILE.

Okay, so because of the situation.

Are you

saying that the situation has become a little bit unwieldy that you have
now to impose a maximum penalty for violations?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, we dont think the system
is unwieldy but I think the situation warrants sanction to those who
have violated the law, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. The law is wise, you know, it established a range
from zero up to an upper limit depending upon the condition of the
system. And that is why I am asking you as an administrator whether
you have reached that upper limit that reflects the efficiency of the
system.
MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, I think the context here is

30,000 compared to the asset sizes of the transactions is such small


amount, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE.

You are making excuses.

I am asking for a

question because we are designing a policy.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Perhaps, Governor, could you explain the

context?

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SEN. ENRILE. Why not reduce it? You cannot reduce it because
that will be illogical in relation to the situation, isnt it?
MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman, we have to apply or the
Monetary Board has to take into consideration the context of a specific
situation in determining what amount of penalty to impose, Mr.
Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE. No, no, no. We are establishing a policy. What
you are suggesting is discretion based on your judgment.
must establish a rule, a guide.

The law

It is not yours but its Congress

prerogative to do that.
MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, there are implementing

regulations in terms of assessing imposable penalties


SEN. ENRILE.

We are not talking implementing regulations,

you are not lawmaking, we are the lawmakers and I am asking you, as
a matter of policy whether the situation demands that we increase the
penalties which shows that the situation has deteriorated or that your
efficiency has dwindled.
MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, the situation demands higher
penalties. But I dont think the situation has deteriorated.
SEN. ENRILE. Why do you increase the penalty if there is no
basis?

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MR. ESPENILLA. Well, Mr. Chairman


SEN.

ENRILE.

am

asking

recommendation to increase the penalty.

for

the

basis

of

your

You cannot just do an

arbitrary decision for the people, it is not your decision, this is going to
affect the people.
MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, if I may
SEN. ENRILE.

Ito ang masama sa atin, we are tending to

become a government of men, not a government of laws.


MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, the basis for our belief that

monetary penalties can be increased is the increased threat of money


laundering activityjun

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MR. ESPENILLA.

...of money laundering activity to the

country.
SEN. ENRILE.

Why not increase it to one million or 50,000 at

least?
MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, we have recommendations. It

will be up to Congress to decide on that, Mr. Chairman.


SEN. ENRILE.

Even if the amount involved is only 1,000, you

impose 30,000? Is that it?


MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, our recommendation is based

on both amounts and also should be related to the size of the


transaction, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. ENRILE.

And you determine the gravity based on your

notion of what is grave?


Mr. Chairman, I do not want to belabor this.
function.

This is the function of Congress.

This is not his

Now, I only raised that

question because we start to learn that we cannot deal with policy in


this country on a whimsical basis. There must be a cause, a reason for
us to adopt a policy.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Thank you.

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11:38 a.m.
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Governor, when you make your recommendations, then make


sure about the basis for your recommendations.
MR. ESPENILLA.

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. On Page 40, Midas

Atty. Nepomuceno.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

Yes. In the past hearing, it was mentioned

that 550 million entered Midas and it wasnilaro doon sa junket, ano
po?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. And you still have to determine that

amount? You are still determining that amount?


MS. NEPOMUCENO.

Actually, Your Honor, we are trying to

look at all the accounts that were played in the casino and we are
determining what is the portion of the ... playing account vis--vis the
entire report of the gross gaming revenue reported to the junket
agent, which is Prime Investment Korea Inc.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes. But anyway, at any rate, you said that

in the last hearing, you will give the amount in 10 working days. Iyon
po. I am readingI have the transcript.

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MS. NEPOMUCENO.

Yes, Your Honor.

Actually, we have a

ballpark figure of the amount. We are able to actually evaluate all the
records. We are still in the process of completing the records that we
will be submitting.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Okay. So, in 10 working days which

is
MS. NEPOMUCENO.

I can actually give you the ballpark figure,

Your Honor, today.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

Now, let us just wait for your final

report, so we can
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

When will that be?

MS. NEPOMUCENO.

That should be anytime this week, Your

Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Very good then.

Mr. Manalastas, iyon nga ano, pinag-usapan iyong earnings ng


Pagcor doon sa gaming na iyon sa Midas.

And in the last hearing,

Senator Recto said that that earnings is now part of Pagcor.

Okay.

And you were asked if it is possible for you to bring itto return it to
Bangladesh.

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My first question isMs. Abad, would it be proper for us to say


that the AMLC can pursue that if the earnings are from a junket
operator and these earnings become part of Pagcorobviously, the
funds came from the $81 millionthen, we can still pursue it. In this
case, the profits earned by Pagcor. Would that be proper?
MS. BACAY-ABAD.

I believe so, Your Honor, that we can still

pursue the same as long as we can establish that everything came


from these stolen funds. However, I think it would have to go through
the process once the money or funds become part of the Pagcors
funds or it becomes public funds.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BACAY-ABAD.

Correct. So, it becomes public funds


So, before it can be disbursed, it has to be

appropriated, Your Honor.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Correct.

MS. BACAY-ABAD.

I think it has to go through that process.

THE CHAIRMAN.

So, they also saidPagcor also said since

they are under the Office of the President, they need the clearance
from the Office of the President. But again, like you said, which I also
agree, I think, that it is public money, therefore, you need an
appropriation for its release. But nevertheless, the point being that we

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are here to identify sources where we can return to the Bangladeshi


authorities.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
And I understand Mr. Kim Wong returned 200 million yesterday.
Am I correct?
MS. BACAY-ABAD.

Yesterday, Your Honor, Eastern Hawaii

Leisure Company, through its lawyer, turned over the amount of P200
million to the AMLC for safekeeping to be returned to the Peoples
Republic of Bangladesh.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Am I correct then that

Mr. Kim Wong, ito ba iyong bahagi nung 450 na sinabi niyo po?
MR. WONG.

Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. WONG.

Ah, okay. Thank you.

Kasi po, hindi ba, nangako po ako within a month

I have to return 450 million po.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Okay. Yes.

And one last detail, Ms. Abad, when there is civil forfeiture
casein this case, let us be very specific, the government of
Bangladesh has to intervene in the civil forfeiture case.

Because if

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they do not intervene and say that it is their money, then the court will
declare it as the money of the republic. Am I correct?
MS. BACAY-ABAD.

That is correct, Your Honor. Under the rule

on civil forfeiture, Any party or person who has a claim on any


property being subject of forfeiture should file the appropriate petition
and intervention or a third party claim.

And they should present

evidence to the effect that the property legitimately belongs to them.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. So, okay then. Anyway, pleasethey

are here also, so they are listening. But please inform them later on,
make sure that they file an intervention.
Okay. We go to Philrem.
Mr. Palmares.
MR. PALMARES.

Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Pakilapit lang.

MR. PALMARES.

Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Magandang umaga.

Ayon sa affidavit mo, ikaw iyong nakatira sa 392 Columbia


Street, Mandaluyong.
MR. PALMARES.

Opo, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

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Atty. Renato De Jesus, nandito po kayo?


Please talk in the mike. Press.
MR. DE JESUS.

Narito po ako, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Atty. Renato De Jesus, nag-submit si

Mark Raymond Valenzuela Palmares, purporting to be the messenger


of Philrem, ng isang affidavit po at ikaw daw ang nag-notaryo nito.
Nakikita po bamay kopya po ba kayo?
MR. DE JESUS.

Mayroon po. Hindi po ito totoo. Hindi ko po

ito signature.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.

Hindi kayo ito?


Hindi po ako ito. Hindi ko po signature ito.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.

Pero pangalan mo Renato De Jesus?


Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.

So, wala kang kinalaman dito? This is


Wala po akong

THE CHAIRMAN.

As far as you are concerned, you have

nothing to do with this document?


MR. DE JESUS.

Wala po akong kinalaman po dito tungkol sa

bagay na ito.

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THE CHAIRMAN.

Well, Mr. Palmares, ano ba itong sina-submit

mo rito at mismong notaryo ang nagsabi hindi daw siya ang nagnotaryo nito? I warn you, puwede po kayong makulong dito.
MR. PALMARES.

Pumunta po ako, sir, sa Pasig City Hall po, sa

notaryo po, kay Renato De Jesus po.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Iyon ba? Nandito siya. Siya ba iyon?

MR. PALMARES.

Opo. Iyong naka-pink po.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Naka-pink. Siya iyan?

MR. PALMARES.

Binigay ko po sa secretary niya iyong papel

THE CHAIRMAN.

Oo. Iyan si Mr. De Jesus .../jlf

po.

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THE CHAIRMAN.

Iyan si Mr. De Jesus, nakikita mo iyong

mukha niya, siya ba iyong kinausap mo?


MR. PALMARES.

Opo, sir, binigay po sa secretary niya, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Binigay niya sa secretary niya?

MR. PALMARES.

Opo, ito pong ano, affidavit.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Pero naharap mo siya?

MR. PALMARES.

Nakita ko lang po doon, sir, naharap ko po.

THE CHAIRMAN.

At ano ang nangyari?

Paki-kwento mo

anong nangyari.
MR. PALMARES.

Nagsumpa po ako, sir, tapos, sir

THE CHAIRMAN.

Nagsumpa ka?

MR. PALMARES.

Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Nagtaas ka ng kamay?

MR. PALMARES.

Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Kanino?

MR. PALMARES.

Kay Mr. Renato De Jesus po.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Siya nga mismo nagsabi wala siyang

kinalaman diyan?
Ano, Mr. De Jesus, anong tingin--

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MR. DE JESUS.

Nagsisinungaling po siya, hindi ko pa po siya

nakikita ni minsan.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Ni minsan?

MR. DE JESUS.

Ni minsan hindi ko po siya nakita. Sir, ito po

ay hindi ko talagang pirma, malayong malayo.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Mayroon kang notarial registry dito, may IBP

No. 1012153, sa iyo po ba itong number na ito, IBP number?


MR. DE JESUS.

Hindi ko po masasabi kung ito nga ay akin.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.

Hindi mo memorize iyong number mo?


Hindi ko po kabisado.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay, understood naman, hindi naman tayo

nagme-memorize ng number natin.


MR. DE JESUS.

Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Pero I just want to be clear, never mo siyang

nakita?
MR. DE JESUS.

Hindi ko po siya nakikita.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Kasi kasasabi lang niya nagkaharapan daw

MR. DE JESUS.

Nagsisinungaling po siya, hindi ko pa siya

kayo?

nakikita.

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THE CHAIRMAN.

Senator Bam Aquino.

SEN. AQUINO.

Atty. De Jesus, ito po ba ang pirma ninyo?

Nakita ninyo po iyong affidavit, ito po ba pirma ninyo?


MR. DE JESUS.

Sandali lang po.

Hindi ko po ito pirma as

notary public.
SEN. AQUINO.

Pwede po ba kayong mag-submit ng mga ibang

dokumento ng pirma ninyo?


MR. DE JESUS.

Opo, opo, opo I am willing.

SEN. AQUINO.

So, in short, sinasabi po ninyo hindi po ito

notarized, itong affidavit na ito dahil you are saying hindi kayo ito?
MR. DE JESUS.

Hindi po ako itong pumirma.

SEN. AQUINO.

Okay. In any case, Mr. Chairman, even if this

is invalidated by the notary we can get the testimony of Mr. Palmares


naman.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, yes, yes, of course. We will continue

asking Mr. Palmares.


Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE.
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.

Mr. De Jesus, abogado ka, hindi ba?


Opo.
May lisensiya ka as a member of the bar?

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MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.

Yes, Your Honor.


Ngayon, nakalagay dito Atty. Renato E. De

Jesus, iyan ba ang pangalan mo?


MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.

Ito po.
Ngayon nakalagay dito notary public-- notary

public ka?
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.

Opo.
May lisensiya ka na notary public?
Opo.
Okay. Lahat dito sa mga nakasulat dito sa ilalim

noong pangalan mo, alin dito ang hindi totoo?


MR. DE JESUS.

As I have told you, Your Honor, hindi ko po

kabisado ang kuwan-SEN. ENRILE.


MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.

Alin dito, basahin moabogado ka eh.


Opo.
Alin dito ang hindi totoo? May hindi totoo diyan

sa mga nakasulat sa ilalim ng pangalan mo?


MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.
MR. DE JESUS.

Sandali lang po.


Basahin mo.
IBP numberPTR.

Sandali lang po.

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SEN. ENRILE.

Sagutin mo ngasagutin mo kung mayroong

errorhindi totoo dito sa mga nakalagay na detalye, mga numero,


mga words, salita dito sa ilalim ng pangalan ng Atty. Renato E. De
Jesus?
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.

Ako po nakakasiguro na hindi ko po ito-Huh?

MR. DE JESUS.

Nakakasiguro po ako na hindi ko po ito pirma.

Pero ito pong mga nakasaad dito ay hindi ko po makakabisa, hindi ko


po masasabi kungunless-SEN. ENRILE.

Totoo bang lahat itong mga nakasulat dito sa

ilalim ngnasa ilalim ng pangalan mo? Totoo ba?


MR. DE JESUS.

Hindi ko po masasabingsa aking pantatak

po
SEN. ENRILE.

Basahin mo sa recordbasahin mo at sabihin

mo kung may hindi totoo diyan?

Alam mo kayo nagpapalusot kayo

dito.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Sandali lang, sandali lang.

Bakit hindi mo

masabi--bakit hindi mo masagot iyong tanong ni Senator Enrile, itong


mga ito mga IBP number, PTR dahil hindi mo memorized?
MR. DE JESUS.

Opo.

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THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. May opisina ka naman, pwede mong

tawagan ang opisina mo ngayon para malaman mo kung tugma nga


iyong PTR number at saka iyong IBP number.
MR. DE JESUS.

Sandali lang po.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Mayroon kang MCLE compliance number,

mayroong TIN number. Lahat ito paki-verify.


SEN. ENRILE.

Mr. Chairman, mayroon akong susunod na

kuwan.
Alam mo, paano malalaman ito nitong tao na ito, isang
messenger,

kung

hindi

ikaw

ang

naglagay

niyan?

Walang

makakaalam, maski sino, maski members ng Supreme Court hindi nila


maime-memorya at ilagay sa ilalim ng pangalan mo, iyang mga details
na iyan sapagkat iyan ay sarili mo, iyan ang hanapbuhay mo.
Pagkatapos magsasabi ka dito hindi mo alam, ano ka ba?
MR. DE JESUS.

Ito pong pirma ho talagang hindi ko po pirma

ito.
SEN. ENRILE.
MR. DE JESUS.

Akala mo kami lahat dito ay mangmang.


Hindi po. Ito pong pirmang ito hindi po talaga

akin ito.

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SEN. ENRILE.
mo.

Hindi natin alam pa kung totoo iyong sinasabi

Ito mismo pinasisinungalingan mo na itong mga identifying

professional numbers na ibinigay sa iyo.


MR. DE JESUS.

Talagang hindi ko po pirma ito, masasabi ko sa

inyo.
THE CHAIRMAN.

All right, all right.

At any rate, Atty. De

Jesus, tawagan ninyo iyong opisina ninyo, lahat ng mga nanditong


mga detalye can you verify it, and then when you are ready--I would
say maybe 30 minutes would be enough time for you to verify.
But do you affirm again, No. (1), this is not your signature?
MR. DE JESUS.

Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.

No. (2), you are stating that you had never

notarized this?
MR. DE JESUS.

Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.

Yes?
Yes, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.

No. (3), you have never seen this person?


Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Sige we will wait for you to til--when

you get back.

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SEN. ENRILE.

Sandali lang. Did you submit this already to the

registry of documents?

Hindi ba lahat ng mga affidavit na ginagawa

ninyo ipinadadala ninyo--nako-compile ito sa isang opisina, hindi ba?


THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. ENRILE.

Yes, in continuance with the--

Kayong mga notaryo lahat ng mga dokumento

ninyo it is senta copy is sent to the civil registry, I think, hindi ba?
MR. DE JESUS.

Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Now, could you produce also na lang the

notarial registerthe book where you record all the documents that
you notarized?
MR. DE JESUS.

Opo, Your Honor.

SEN. ENRILE.

Naka-register ito sa notarial book mo, ngayon

sasabihin mo hindi mo ginawa ito?


MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. DE JESUS.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Teka sandali lang po tatawagin ko iyong-We will give you 30 minutes.


Opo.
Okay then.

Mr. Palmares?
MR. PALMARES.

Sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, sandali lang ha.

Saan ka ba nakatira?

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MR. PALMARES.

Sa Greenhills po, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Anong number noong bahay mo?

MR. PALMARES.

392 Columbia.

THE CHAIRMAN.

392 Columbia. Are we ready with thatwe

just want to show something Ginoogle Earth (Google Earth) namin


iyong bahay mo. Ito po ang 392 Columbia, bahay mo ba iyan?
MR. PALMARES.

Opo, 392 Columbia Street po. Sa boss ko po

iyaniyong tatay ng boss ko po. Stay in po ako doon, sir.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Stay in ka?

MR. PALMARES.

Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN.

Sino po ang boss ninyo?

MR. PALMARES.

Si Sheba Bautista po--Salud/rjo

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MR. PALMARES. Salud.


THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, so bahay ni Sheba iyan?
MR. PALMARES. Sa tatay niya po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sa tatay mo, Sheba?
Verbal response please, Sheba.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Samakatuwid, nakatira ka sa tatay ni
Ms. Salud Bautista?
MR. PALMARES. Stay-in lang po, mga messenger.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yeah, yeah. Nakatira, stay-in.
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay, fine.
On February 5, February 5 po, naalala mo iyon?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE

CHAIRMAN.

Sige.

Sabi

mo

rito

nag-deliver

ka

ng P90,000?
MR. PALMARES. Ninety million, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Im sorry, P90,000,000 at $500,000?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sa Solaire?

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MR. PALMARES. Opo.


THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Nakalagay dito nandoon si Ms. Salud
Bautista kasama nyo?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. And dala mo yung cash?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, dala ko po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Kanino mo binigay iyong cash?
MR. PALMARES. Kay Maam Sheba po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Kay Sheba?
MR. PALMARES.

Oho.

Ang instruction po niya sa akin, sir,

magkita lang kami sa Solaire. Pagdating doon, sir, inabot ko lang po


iyong receiving copy, sir, na nakalagay po doon na 900,000 iyong
amount po at saka $500,000.
THE CHAIRMAN. Nine hundred million, you mean?
MR. PALMARES. Nine hundred million, sir, sorry.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ninety.
MR. PALMARES. Ninety.
THE CHAIRMAN. Nagkakagulo-gulo na tayo.
MR. PALMARES. Sorry, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ninety million.

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MR. PALMARES.

Ninety million, sir, na pesos at saka po

$500,000.
THE CHAIRMAN. Saan mo kinuha iyong pera?
MR. PALMARES. Bale po pinick up (pick up) ko lang po iyon sa
opisina namin po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Saan iyong opisina nyo?
MR. PALMARES. Makati po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong address?
MR. PALMARES. Sa Cityland.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong address?
MR. PALMARES. 2401.
THE CHAIRMAN. 2401 Cityland.
MR. PALMARES. Opo, 2401 Cityland.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong street?
MR. PALMARES. Herrera corner Esteban.
THE CHAIRMAN. So kanto siya?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pinick up (pick up) mo?
MR. PALMARES. Oo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong oras mo pinick up (pick up)?

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MR. PALMARES. Mga six oclock siguro iyon, sir.


THE CHAIRMAN. Six oclock?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sino nagsabi sa iyo na i-pick up iyon?
MR. PALMARES. Si Maam Sheba Bautista po. Salud po, Salud.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
SEN. ENRILE. Six oclock kahapon?
THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi, hindi. Hindi six oclock kahapon.
SEN. ENRILE. Ay, kailan iyon?
THE CHAIRMAN. February 5. February 5.
SEN. ENRILE. February 5.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Ngayon, pumasok ka sa Solaire?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Dala-dala mo iyong 90 million?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. At saan mo nakita si Ms. Salud Bautista?
MR. PALMARES. Doon po, sir, sa VIP po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sa?
MR. PALMARES. Bago pumasok ng VIP.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong pangalan nung lugar?

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MR. PALMARES. VIP, iyong room po, VIP room.


THE CHAIRMAN. Pumasok ka sa VIP room?
MR. PALMARES. Opo. Dinala ko po iyong 90 million.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong itsura ng VIP room?
MR. PALMARES. Malaki po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong kulay ng
MR. PALMARES. Para po yatang red po ata iyon.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tapos anong nakalagay sa mga dingding?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko na po maalala po, first time ko po na
pumasok doon.
THE CHAIRMAN. First time?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pero 18 years ka nang messenger nila?
MR. PALMARES. Seven years lang po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Seven years?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pero first time mo lang sa Solaire?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi naman po. Sa VIP lang po first time po
ako na pumasok doon, iyong room lang po iyon.

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THE CHAIRMAN.

Anong nakita mo sa loob ng VIP room?

Anong maalala mo?


MR. PALMARES.

Mga tao lang po iyong nakita ko po doon,

iyong mga lamesa. Iyon lang po.


THE CHAIRMAN. Sinong kasama ni Ms. Bautista?
MR. PALMARES. Si ano po, Sir Concon po, Bautista.
THE CHAIRMAN. Si Concon, oo. Mga anong oras ito?
MR. PALMARES. Siguro, sir, mga 7:00 to 7:30 siguro, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Seven thirty?
MR. PALMARES. Oo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ikaw mag-isa?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mag-isa. Gaano kabigat ba ang P90,000,000
at kaya mong mag-isa?
MR. PALMARES.

Naka-trolley naman po.

Ibinaba lang po sa

sasakyan tapos kinarga po sa trolley, tapos dinala ko po doon sa loob


ng building.
THE CHAIRMAN. May trolley sa Solaire?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. At ilan ang maleta na dala mo?

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MR. PALMARES. Bale po isang malaki po at saka po iyong isa


ganyan po kahaba, ganyan po kataas.
THE CHAIRMAN. Maleta?
MR. PALMARES. Ang maleta po nandoon sa gilid po, malaki po
iyon. Iyong maleta, mga ganyan.
THE CHAIRMAN. So ilang maleta dala mo?
MR. PALMARES.

Bale po isang maleta po at saka parang

travelling bag po na mahaba. Ganyan po kahaba.


THE CHAIRMAN. So iyong zipper nasa taas, iyong paganon?
MR. PALMARES. Opo. Pabilog po iyong zipper.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pabilog?
MR. PALMARES.

Iyong paikot, sir.

Ganyan.

Dalawa pong

zipper.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
MR. PALMARES. At saka po isa pong bag na iyong pambabae
po na ganyan kalaki. Iyong parang shoulder bag po na
THE CHAIRMAN. So ilang bag lahat-lahat?
MR. PALMARES. Bale tatlo po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tatlo. Isang shoulder bag na pambabae.
MR. PALMARES. Opo.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Puno ng pera?


MR. PALMARES. Oo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Isang travelling bag?
MR. PALMARES. Oo, iyong malaki pong travelling bag po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Puno rin ng pera?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. At isang maleta?
MR. PALMARES. Oo. Iyong malaki pong maleta, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Kaya mong kargahin lahat iyon?
MR. PALMARES. Nagpatulong lang po ako, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sinong tumulong sa iyo?
MR. PALMARES. Sa kasama ko pong driver, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, anong pangalan ng driver na kasama mo?
MR. PALMARES.

Sir, kay Maam Sheba nyo na lang po

itanong, sir, kung


THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi, hindi, tinatanong kita.

Sabi mo may

kasama ka.
Tao iyong kasama mo?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. O, ayun pala.

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MR. PALMARES. Siya iyong nagda-drive lang po iyon sa amin.


THE CHAIRMAN. Anong pangalan niya? Sagutin mo.
Atty. Calleja, are you coaching him? Are you telling him what to
do, what to say?
MR. CALLEJA. I told him to tell the name, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Thank you for that then.
O narinig mo ang attorney mo?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Alam mo, ang daming intriga na dito. There
is a notary thats saying na hindi totoo. Magsabi ka na ng totoo, okay.
Anong pangalan noong driver na kasama mo?
MR. PALMARES. Si
THE CHAIRMAN. Mark, Mark
MR. PALMARES. Sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Relax ka lang. Okay lang. Ang ano lang is
ilang taon mo nang kasama iyong tao, sabihin mo na iyong pangalan.
Parang simple lang naman pag tinatanong ko.
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo Palmares, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, Palmares din?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Relative mo?


MR. PALMARES. Tito ko po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tito mo?
MR. PALMARES. Oo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Anong first name?
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ronilo. Okay.
Itong Ronilo na ito nakatira din, stay-in din doon sa bahay na inistay in mo?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Kayong dalawa ang nagdala ng pera?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sa Solaire po pero ako na lang po ang
nagpasok doon sa loob ng VIP.

Nagpatulong lang po ako doon

pagbaba sa lobby.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sino ang tumulong sa iyo?
MR. PALMARES.

Iyong driver pong kasama ko, sir, si Ronilo

Palmares.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Ah, pero pagpasok sa VIP hindi na siya

kasama?

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MR. PALMARES. Hindi na po. Kasi may trolley naman po, sir,
kaya ko naman po itulak mag-isa.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

Mula nung office hanggang sa

pagbaba sa kotse sino ang tumulong sa iyo?


MR. PALMARES. Mula po sa office, sir, iyong mga staff po at
saka po iyong driver po, si Ronilo Palmares.
THE CHAIRMAN. Si Ronilo Palmares. Okay, sino pa nandoon
sa Solaire, sa VIP?
MR. PALMARES. May mga Chinese po akong nakikita doon, sir,
iyong mga kasama nila ni Maam Sheba.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Noong binigay mo iyong pera kay Sheba

anong nangyari?
MR. PALMARES. Iyong resibo po binigay ko kay Maam Sheba
po kasi siya na lang po magpa-receive noon, iyon po ang instruction sa
akin, tapos po iyong pera po nandiyan lang po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Teka muna, teka muna. Iyong resibo binigay
mo kanino?
MR. PALMARES. Maam Sheba po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Kay Sheba. Anong ginawa ni Sheba?
MR. PALMARES. Pina-receive niya po.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Pina-receive niya. Hindi ba iyong resibo ay


ikaw ang nakapirma?
MR. PALMARES. Opo. Pangalan ko po iyan, sir, sa resibo para
po in case po na may problema po iyong pera, sir, Delivered by po
nakalagay doon pangalan ko.

Kung mayroon pong problema, sir,

halimbawa, sir, may fake o kulang po, ako po iyong babalikan ni


Maam Sheba kasi nakalagay po doon Delivered by Mark.

Iyon po

yung katunayan lang, sir, na ako po iyong nag-deliver ng


THE CHAIRMAN. Ito iyong procedure nyo?
MR. PALMARES. Procedure po.
THE CHAIRMAN. At nakita mong pinirmahan ito?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi mo nakita?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po. Kasi, sir/cbg

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12:08 p.m.
1

MR. PALMARES.

...Hindi po. Kasi, sir, malayo po sila, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Gaano kalayo?


MR. PALMARES. Siguro, sir, ito at saka iyong aircon na iyon,
sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Iyong aircon diyan, ganoon kalayo?
MR. PALMARES. Oho.
THE CHAIRMAN. So, kinuha ni Ms. Sheba sa iyo-MR. PALMARES. Binigay ko po sa kanya.
THE CHAIRMAN. Binigay mo.
MR. PALMARES.

Kasi siya na lang daw po ang magpapa-

receive.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tapos lumakad siya papunta doon?
MR. PALMARES. Uh-huh.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pero nasa loob ka ng kuwarto?
MR. PALMARES. Oho. Nasa gilid lang po kami.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sa gilid.
What happened, Ms. Salud, with the receipt?

How did you

transport the money to Mr. Weikang Xu?


MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, iyong pera ho nasa trolley.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

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12:08 p.m.
2

MS. BAUTISTA. Tapos dinala nila, iyong group nila, iyong mga
Chinese people. Tapos-THE CHAIRMAN.

No, you transported it from where he was

standing.
MS. BAUTISTA. No, the money was there in the trolley, doon
lang sa labas.
THE CHAIRMAN. Outside?
MS. BAUTISTA.

Oo.

Parang--hindi ba, pagpasok mo kasi sa

Solaire, hindi ba nasa right side iyong ano, iyong VIP area?
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. I havent been there.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes. So, the VIP area is on the right side tapos
pagpasok mo sa lobby ng Solaire, doon sa VIP area na iyon.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. And then what happened? You gave
the receipt to Mr. Weikang Xu?

Please tell us what happened.

Pakikuwento lang.
MS. BAUTISTA. Actually si Mr. Wong was there. So, sabi niya
player niya si Mr. Weikang Xu.

So, siya na ang nag-identify kaya

kinuha ko na lang iyong passport tapos pinapirmahan sa kaniya.


THE CHAIRMAN. And then piniktyuran (picture) mo ba iyong
passport?

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April 19, 2016
12:08 p.m.
3

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.


THE CHAIRMAN. So, Mr. Weikang Xu signed it in front of you?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
Senator Aquino.
SEN. AQUINO. Mark, good morning.
MR. PALMARES. Good morning, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Good morning.
So, may mga tanong lang ako. Pakisagot lang, ano, iyong mga
tanong.
So, nasabi before ni Ms. Salud na lahat noong mga deliveries
kasama ka daw, totoo ba iyon?
MR. PALMARES.

Opo, ito pong ano lang po, ito pong 5

hanggang po 13. Kaya iyong sa Solaire lang po si Maam Sheba ang


kasama ko po dito at saka si Sir Concon.
SEN. AQUINO. Iyong February 10, February 11, February 12,
February 13, kasama ka rin doon, hindi ba?
MR. PALMARES. Bale po ako lang po iyong nagdi-deliver po ng
pera sa bahay po nila tapos po iniiwan ko lang po kay Sir Concon iyong
receiving copy po at saka po iyong mga cash po.

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12:08 p.m.
4

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, wala ka noong binigay kay Weikang


Xu iyong pera?

Itong nasa number six sa iyong affidavit--one, two,

three, four, five, six, eight--itong eight transactions dito sa number six
nakalagay kasi sa salaysay mo, The other cash deliveries that I made
which took place in the residence of the Bautistas were as follows--
So, kumbaga, nandoon ka noong na-deliver iyong perang ito, tama ba?
So, Mark, naintindihan mo iyong--Ill repeat the question.
Dito sa affidavit mo nakalagay dito na on February 10, may 100
million at saka $3 million; February 11, 100 million, $2 million;
February 12, 100 million, $3.5 million; February 13, 100 million, $6
million. Nandoon ka ba noong diniliver (deliver) iyong perang ito?
MR. PALMARES. Nasa bahay lang po ako, sir, hinahatid ko lang
po iyong ano, iyong cash po, iyong pera.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hinahatid mo siya-MR. PALMARES. Doon po sa kay Mr. Bautista.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mula sa--?
MR. PALMARES.

Mula po sa opisina, dadalhin ko po doon sa

bahay nila.
SEN. AQUINO. So, iyong perang ito nasa opisina?

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12:08 p.m.
5

MR. PALMARES. Hindi po, galing po sa opisina, sir, dadalhin ko


po doon sa bahay nila.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Pero ikaw nakatira ka rin sa bahay nila,
hindi ba?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po, sa 392 po.
SEN. AQUINO. Ah, okay.

So, sa 392, makakatanggap ka ng

tawag. Kunin mo iyong pera, dalhin mo sa bahay ng mga Bautista,


tama?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po. Sa office po namin po sa Cityland-SEN. AQUINO. Uh-huh.
MR. PALMARES.

Galing po sa office namin sa Cityland,

dadalhin ko po sa bahay nila.


SEN. AQUINO.

Sino ang nagsabi sa iyo na dalhin mo iyong

pera?
MR. PALMARES.

Instruction po iyon, sir, galing kina Sir

Concon.
SEN. AQUINO. Ah, okay. So, si Concon tatawagan ka, Iyong
perang nasa opisina dalhin mo sa bahay namin, tama?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.

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12:08 p.m.
6

SEN. AQUINO.

Okay.

Pagdating mo doon, iniwan mo iyong

pera sa bahay nila?


MR. PALMARES. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.

Alam mo ba kung kanino nila binigay iyong

pera?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kasi sa iyong affidavit, nakalagay iyong
beneficiary kung kanino napunta?
MR. PALMARES.
Xu.

Opo, kung kanino napunta po, kay Weikang

Noong six po kasi noong February 9 po, isang beses po na

paghatid ko po ng pera, kumakain po ako, naabutan ko po habang


nagkakarga sila noong pera pero hindi ko po nakita kung sino po doon
si Weikang Xu kasi po marami sila.
SEN. AQUINO.

Okay.

So, kung nandito si Weikang Xu hindi

mo matuturo?
MR. PALMARES.

Hindi ko po maalala ang mukha, sir, kasi

marami ho silang magkakamukha, sir, mga Chinese, sir.


SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, hindi mo rin alam na si Weikang Xu
iyong kumuha ng perang ito?

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12:08 p.m.
7

MR. PALMARES. Hindi po kasi iyon pong instruction lang po na


sila na po ni Sir Concon ang magpapa-receive at haharap po sa tao.
Ako lang po ang magdadala ng pera galing po sa-SEN. AQUINO. Magde-deliver?
MR. PALMARES. Deliver lang po talaga ako ng pera sa bahay
nila.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, unang-una, Mark, ipo-point-out ko
lang na sa affidavit mo nilagay mo dito na napunta kay Weikang Xu
iyong pera. Sa totoo, hindi mo talaga alam kung kanino napunta iyong
pera. Ang alam mo naibigay mo kay Concon at saka kay Salud, tama?
MR. PALMARES.

Sir, kasi ang instruction po sa akin, sir, sa

beneficiary po Weikang Xu po ang ilalagay, deliver, Weikang Xu.


Ako po ang gumawa noong receiving copy, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MR. PALMARES. Tapos sila na po iyong haharap sa tao, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Ah, okay. So, itong beneficiary na Weikang Xu
ito iyong utos sa iyo ng mga Bautista?
MR. PALMARES. Oho, uh-huh.
SEN.

AQUINO.

Hindi

mo

talaga

nakita

personally

na

pinirmahan ito ni Weikang Xu?

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April 19, 2016
12:08 p.m.
8

MR. PALMARES. Hindi po.


SEN. AQUINO.

Okay.

So, kinaklaro ko lang.

Hindi mo

nakitang pinirmahan iyong mga resibo ng isang Weikang Xu?


MR. PALMARES. Opo, hindi po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, si Weikang Xu kung nandiyan siya sa
harap mo, hindi mo rin masasabi kung sino si Weikang Xu?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Si Mr. Kim Wong kilala mo ba?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po, sir.
SEN. AQUINO.

Noong sa Solaire, wala ba siya doon noong

diniliver (deliver) mo iyong 90 million and $500,000 o hindi mo na


maalala?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko lang po sure, sir, kung nandoon siya,
sir, kasi may mga Chinese po, sir.

Hindi ko rin po maalala iyong

mukha niya, sir, kasi nakilala ko lang siya, sir, sa TV noong sa balita
nakita ko lang.

Pero hindi ko po maalala kung nandoon po siya at

hindi po ako sure.


SEN. AQUINO. Kung nandoon siya.
Mr. Wong, nandoon ka ba, itong 90 million and 500,000 sa
Solaire? Nandoon ka, hindi ba, noong diniliver (deliver) iyong pera?

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12:08 p.m.
9

MR. WONG. Iyong 90 ho at saka 500, hindi ko po alam iyon.


SEN. AQUINO.

Five hundred thousand.

Hindi ba ito iyong

February 5 na nag-dinner kayo with Maia?


MR. WONG. Eighty lang ho ang alam ko, 80 at saka 20 lang ho.
SEN. AQUINO. Ah, 80 million-MR. WONG. Kasi may 500, palagay ko baka hindi po ako iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN. Eighty million iyong kay-SEN. AQUINO. Iyong delivery ng P80 million, si Mr. Palmares
ba nakita mo ba siyang nag-deliver noong pera?
MR. WONG. Hindi ko po siya kilala.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo rin siya nakita ever?
MR. WONG. Never po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
Sige, Mark. Si Mr. Wong hindi mo rin kilala?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi po, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
Pero, Ms. Salud, in your testimony Mr. Wong was there to
receive this, right?
Could you speak into the mike, please?

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12:08 p.m.
10

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.


SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, sa iyong testimony-MS. BAUTISTA. Kasama ho niya si Weikang Xu.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, in your testimony, si Mark diniliver
(deliver) iyong pera sa VIP room. Nandoon si Mr. Wong, nandoon si
Mr. Weikang Xu.
MS. BAUTISTA. At saka iba pa hong mga Chinese.
SEN. AQUINO. And other Chinese individuals.
Mr. Wong, totoo ba iyon doon pa nga ba kayo sa VIP room
nagka-exchange ng pera?

Iyong 80 million po, was that in the VIP

room o sa ibang kuwarto po iyon?


MR. WONG. Dumating po sa VIP room ho tapos noong dalawa
nilang tao, nilabas, hinatid ho, hinihintay namin iyong kay Maia,
hinatid ho hanggang junket ng second floor ng Sun City ho, malayo po
iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. Malayo iyon.
MR. WONG. Opo, siguro-SEN. AQUINO. Hindi ho si Mr. Palmares iyong dalawang taong
iyon?
MR. WONG. Hindi po, mas malaki ho.

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11

SEN. AQUINO. Mas malaki kay Mr. Palmares?


MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
Mark, so sinasabi ni Mr. Wong hindi daw ikaw iyong nag-deliver
noong pera. Ang testimony mo binigay mo iyong pera pero hanggang
doon lang sa VIP room. Hinatid mo ba ito doon sa junket operator?
MR. PALMARES. Doon sa VIP room lang po, sa baba.
SEN. AQUINO. Hanggang doon lang?
MR. PALMARES. Hanggang doon lang po ako sa baba, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo siya inakyat sa second floor, iyon po
iyong sabi ni Mr. Kim Wong?
MR. PALMARES. Umalis na po ako noon, sir, noong pagkabigay
ko kay Maam Sheba.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Sige. So, magkakaiba na naman iyong
kuwento natin, huh?
Ito lang sa number six, ano, itong mga panahong nag-deliver ka
ng pera, apat na araw ito, mula sa inyong opisina hanggang sa bahay
ng mga Bautista hanggang doon lang ang alam mo. Wala ka ng ibang
nalalaman?
MR. PALMARES. Deliver lang po talaga ako, sir.

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April 19, 2016
12:08 p.m.
12

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo nakita na ni-load ito sa ibang kotse?


MR. PALMARES. One time, sir, noong kumakain po ako doon
sa bahay nila noong February 9.
SEN. AQUINO. Uh-huh.
MR. PALMARES. Iyong kumakain po ako doon sa kusina nila,
sir, nakita ko po na may mga sasakyan sa labas, pauwi na rin po ako,
tapos na po akong kumain, may nakita po akong nilo-load po nila doon
sa sasakyan pero malayo po sila, hindi ko po makikita iyong mga
mukha nila, sir. Madilim, sir, doon sa garahe. May dim light lang po-SEN. AQUINO. Ms. Bautista, ibang transaction ba ito?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi, noong 9 po iyan, sir.
MS. BAUTISTA. Nine iyan, sir. Feb. 5 iyong akin.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi, pero wala ka namang.../hsg

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April 19, 2016
12:18 p.m.
1

SEN. AQUINO.

Hindi, pero wala ka namang cash delivery

noong February 9.Ah, itong isa.


MR. PALMARES. Opo, mayroon po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MR. PALMARES.

Doon ko po, sir, nakakita na one time, sir,

may
SEN. AQUINO. Ito iyong hundred ten million pesos and three
million dollars?
MR. PALMARES. Oho.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hindi mo rin nakita kung kaninong kotse
iyon? Hindi pamilyar sa iyo o pamilyar sa iyo iyong mga kotse?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko po pamilyar, sir. Parang mga dark
color, sir. Madilim kasi, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mark, maibang usapan. Ilang years ka
na nagtatrabaho sa Philrem?
MR. PALMARES. Seven years na po.
SEN. AQUINO.

Seven years.

Anong mga trabaho mo sa

Philrem? O lagi ka bang messenger?


MR. PALMARES.

Messenger po, nagda-drive din po minsan.

Pag wala pong transaction, drive lang po ako.

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April 19, 2016
12:18 p.m.
2

SEN.

AQUINO.

Iyong

ganitong

klaseng

transaction

ba

pangkaraniwan sa iyo in the seven years na nagtrabaho ka sa Philrem?


MR. PALMARES.

Hindi po, sir.

Ngayon lang po, sir, ako

nakahawak ng ganyang kalaking pera.


SEN. AQUINO. So in your seven years, hindi ka nagdi-deliver
ng ganito kalaking pera kahit kanino man?
MR. PALMARES. Hindi pa sir. Ngayon lang po ako nakahawak
ng ganyang kalaking pera, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Ano iyong sinabi sa iyo ni Mr. Bautista noong
inutos niya sa iyo ito? Sabi ba niya, Mark, ano ito ha, malaking pera
ito, kailangan ingatan natin.

O parang pangkaraniwan lang iyong

ganitong transaction?
MR. PALMARES. Iyon po ang sabi, sir, ingatan kasi malaking
pera. Kaya syempre, sir, nag-iingat din.
SEN. AQUINO.

Sa pagkakaalam mo ba iyong uncle mo, si

Ronilo, siya rin parang driver-messenger din siya, ano?


MR. PALMARES. Hindi po. Driver lang po talaga siya, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Siya ba, mayroon siyang ganitong transaction
na ganito kalalaking pera?

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MR. PALMARES. Wala po, sir. Ako lang po. Pag ako po iyong
messenger, siya po iyong driver lang talaga.
SEN. AQUINO. So kayo iyong tandem?
MR. PALMARES. Oho.
SEN. AQUINO. So kumbaga, in your seven years, ngayon lang
nagkaroon ng mga transakyon na ganito kalaking pera ang diniliver
(deliver) sa mga casino at ni-release mula sa bahay ng mga Bautista?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.

Hindi ka nagtaka o hindi ninyo sila tinanong,

Maam, parang bagong transaction po ito?


MR. PALMARES.

Hindi naman po ako nagtaka, sir, kasi

syempre utos ng boss ko iyon, sir. Messenger lang po ako, sir.


SEN. AQUINO. Pero alam mong malaking pera ang umiikot sa
Philrem? Kasi ganoon talaga iyong negosyo nila.
MR. PALMARES. Oho.
SEN. AQUINO.

Pero ngayon lang nagka-encash na ganito

kalaki, sa iyong pagkakaalam?


MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko naman, sir, na inisip kung ano kasi
sumusunod lang ako ng utos nila.

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SEN. AQUINO. Oo nga. Pero in your seven years, nag-deliver


ka ba ng 1 million para sa ibang kliyente?
MR. PALMARES. One million po, sa bangko lang po.
SEN. AQUINO. Sa bangko. Iyong sa tao or sa casino?
MR. PALMARES. Mayroon po, sa mga tao.
SEN. AQUINO. Sa mga tao.
MR. PALMARES.

Pag

halimbawa po bibili sila ng dollar,

ibabayad po sa akin ng cash.


SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So nangyayari naman iyon, ano?
MR. PALMARES. Oho.
SEN. AQUINO. Usually na sa magkanong level lang iyanfive
million, two million?
MR. PALMARES. Mga two million po, mga ganoon2.5.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi lumalagpas ng 10 million?
MR. PALMARES. Bibihira po iyang ganyan na transaction.
SEN. AQUINO.

Bihira.

So mas bihira itong 100 million, $3

millionbihirang-bihira iyan?
MR. PALMARES. Iyan po talaga, sir, iyong pinakamalaki ko na
hong transaction na naranasan, sir, sa Philrem.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay, sige.

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Mr. Chairman, I am done with my questions for Mr. Palmares.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Mr. Kim Wong, noong diniliver (deliver)

iyongWell, according to your story, 80 million ni Mr. Concon, hindi si


Mr. Palmares iyong kasama ni Mr. Concon?
MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam. Hindi ko po siya nakita.
THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi mo siya nakita.

May nakita kailang

tao ang kasama ni Mr. Concon Bautista?


MR. WONG. Dalawa po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Dalawang tao?
MR. WONG. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ilang bag ang dala nila?
MR. WONG. Ano po?
THE CHAIRMAN. Kasi nag-deliver ng 80 million, ano? So ilang
bag ang dala nila?
MR. WONG. Isang kahon ho, malaki, at saka isang bag po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So iyong bag, maleta o anong klaseng
bag?
MR. WONG. Karton ho siya at saka isang parang bag na, hindi
ho maleta, iyongparang hand carry ho.
THE CHAIRMAN. Parang hand carry?

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MR. WONG. Opo.


THE CHAIRMAN. So pati sa kwento talagang nagkakaiba dahil
iyong isa kahon at saka bag.

Ito, dalawang bag, anosabi mo,

handbag, traveling bag and maleta? Okay.


Doon sa bahay noong February 10, 11, 12, nakalagay dito ikaw
ang nag-deliver doon sa residence, Mark?
MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Nandoon ka noong pinick up (pick up)
iyong pera?
MR. PALMARES. Noong February 9 lang po, sir, iyong una pong
deliver ko sa bahay ni Mr. Bautista.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ano ang nangyari noong February 9? Pakikuwento mo nga.
MR. PALMARES.

Noong February 9 po, nagdala ako ng 110

million at $3 million sa bahay ni Mr. Bautista.


THE CHAIRMAN. Saan mo kinuha?
MR. PALMARES. Galing po sa office sa Cityland.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Sa Cityland din?

Okay.

Ano ang nangyari

doon?

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MR. PALMARES.

Binigay ko po iyong cash kay Sir Concon at

saka po iyong receiving copy nasila na po iyong magpapa-receive


noong pera at saka iyong receiving copy. Siya na po iyong haharap sa
tao.
THE CHAIRMAN. Siya iyong haharap sa tao. Iyong receiving
copy may nakasulat na ba, wala pa?
MR. PALMARES. Mayroon na po, sinulatan ko na po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ano ang sinulat mo?
MR. PALMARES.

Date po, tapos kung kanino idi-deliver

Weikang Xu.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Weikang Xu.

So ikaw ang nagsulat nitong

Weikang Xu?
MR. PALMARES. Ako po, opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Itong 2-9-16 Weikang Xu, okay. Tapos ikaw
rin naglagay ng pangalan mo dito? Mark iyong nakalagay.
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pero wala pang pirma noong
MR. PALMARES.

Wala pa po kasi si Sir Concon po iyong

magpapa-receive po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mga anong oras ito nangyari?

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MR. PALMARES. Iyong dating ko po doon sa bahay nila mga


7:30siguro po mga 7:30 po dumating ako doon sa bahay nila.
THE CHAIRMAN. Gabi o umaga?
MR. PALMARES. Gabi po.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Gabi.

Pagkatapos mong ibinigay, ano ang

nangyari?
MR. PALMARES. Noong tapos ko pong ibigay noong February
9, kumain po muna ako doon, nagkuwento-kuwento doon sa mga
kasambahay, mga driver doon na driver noong ano. Kumain po ako.
Pagkatapos po, mga siguro magna-nine po iyon, paglabas ko, pauwi na
ako, nakita ko na po na nilo-load na nila iyong
THE CHAIRMAN. Nine oclock ng gabi?
MR. PALMARES. Gabi po. Nilo-load na po nila iyong pera.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Mr. Kim Wong, sabi mo dawnakalagay,

ayon sa kuwento mo, mayroon kang 100 million at saka three million
na pick up sa Bautista na bahay, February 9?
MR. WONG. Opo, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Sa kuwento ng Philrem, both of you
have $3 million but then sa pesos, theres a 10 million difference.
Okay.

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At any rate, noong pinick up (pick up) ninyo po iyong pera, mga
anong oras iyon nangyari?
MR. WONG. Gabi na po iyon, siguro mga 10:00 o 11:00 na.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ten or 11:00?
MR. WONG. Ng gabi po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Oo. Mag-isa ka lang?
MR. WONG. Hindi po. Five or six kamifive.
THE CHAIRMAN. Five or six.
MR. WONG.

Iyong driver ko po, bodyguard ko at saka

bodyguard pa ho, apat.


THE CHAIRMAN. Apat?
MR. WONG. Bale limang bodyguard ko po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ilang sasakyan?
MR. WONG. Dalawa po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Dalawang sasakyan?
MR. WONG. Kasi iyong naka-assign sa PSPG sa akin pulis po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
MR. WONG. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. At sino ang nandoon sa bahay, si Concon lang
o si Salud nandoon din?

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MR. WONG. I think si Concon lang yata ho noong 9pinick up


(pick up) ko lang ho sa kanya.
THE CHAIRMAN. Pinick up (pick up) mo lang?
MR. WONG. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

Dito naman sa ibang deliveries, Mr.

Mark, itong February 11, 12, 13, ikaw ba ang nag-deliver nito?
MR. PALMARES.

Opo.

Ganoon pa rin po iyong nangyari.

Kinukuha ko sa office, sa Makati Cityland tapos po kung kumpleto na,


dadalhin ko na sa bahay ni Sir Concon.
THE CHAIRMAN. Bahay ni Sir Concon?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

At wala kang nakitang ibang tao

pagdating sa pick up ng kuwarta?


MR. PALMARES. Wala na po. Iyong February 9 lang, iyon po
may nakita ako.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Mga anong oras iyong delivery mo sa

February 10?
MR. PALMARES. February 10 po, mga ganyan po, mga/mpm

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MR. PALMARES. February 10 po, mga ganyan po, mga nine


to ten po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sa gabi?
MR. PALMARES. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Panay gabi deliveries nyo.
MR. PALMARES.

Opo, gabi po.

Kasi kinukumpleto pa iyong

cash, sir, bago dalhin sa bahay


THE CHAIRMAN. So February 11, anong oras din?
MR. PALMARES. Mga ganyang oras din po. Hindi po bababa sa
nine oclock, sir, anghindi, sir. Iyong dala ko, sir, sa bahay nila?
THE CHAIRMAN. Oo.
MR. PALMARES.

Seven thirty to eight oclock kailangan

kumpleto na po iyan kasi may pi-pick up na po diyan mga nine to ten


THE CHAIRMAN.

Nine to ten. Okay.

Mr. Kim Wong, sino po ang nagsabi sa inyo na pumunta ka sa


bahay at pick up-in iyong pera?
MR. WONG. Si Concon po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Si Concon.
MR. WONG. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Do you confirm that, Mr. Concon?

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MR. BAUTISTA. So when the money is ready


THE CHAIRMAN.

Please, please, put the mike closer.

Thank

you.
MR. BAUTISTA. So when we get the amount of the delivery for
the day, we would tell Maia that this would be the delivery amounts
and they would come.
THE CHAIRMAN.

No.

But Mr. Kim Wong just said that you

were the one who told Kim Wong to go to the house and pick up the
You told Mr. Kim Wong.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, all the instructions came from Maia.
THE CHAIRMAN. The instructions to whom?
MR. BAUTISTA. For the cash portion for the pick up.
THE CHAIRMAN. The instructions to you, you mean? Pakiklaro
lang. Pakiklaro lang.

The instructions to whom? To you.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sa amin po.


THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
MR. BAUTISTA. So whatever cash we can raise to complete the
transaction, whatever the amount for the day would be raised, so I
just tell her the amount and then somebody comes to pick it up.

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THE CHAIRMAN. So Ms. Maia was the one who told you that
Mr. Kim Wong is coming?
MR. BAUTISTA. Well, Weikang Xu, sir. But the interpreter was
Mr. Kim Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator Aquino.
SEN. AQUINO. So just for the record. Mr. Bautista, hindi nyo
po tinawagan si Mr. Wong?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Regarding any of these transactions?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Pero kasama siya doon sa iba, you were saying,
hindi ba?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mr. Wong, pakiulit lang po?
MR. WONG. Yes, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Are you saying na si Mr. Bautista mismo yung
tumawag sa iyo na pick up-in na iyong pera on February 9?
MR. WONG. Nagkausap po kami sa phone. Ang sabi niya may
ganito raw pera na kunin na lang sa bahay.

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SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kasi ang sinasabi niya, never ka niyang


tinawagan. So are you certain, sigurado ka ba na tinawagan ka ni Mr.
Bautista?
MR. WONG. Sigurado po.
SEN. AQUINO. So kung i-check natin iyong phone records on
February 9, nandoon iyong telephone number niya?
MR. WONG. Siguro po.
SEN. AQUINO.

Are you allowing the Committee toano ba

iyong phone mo, Smart o Globe?


MR. WONG. Globe po.
SEN. AQUINO. Are you allowing the Committee to ask/request
Globe for your records on February 9?
MR. WONG. Puwede po.
SEN. AQUINO.

At doon namin makikita iyong number ni Mr.

Bautista?
MR. WONG. Puwede po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN. Are you asking for the records? Yes.

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Okay.

Ms. Deguito, your name again has been mentioned.

According to Mr. Concon Bautista ikaw daw nagdi-direct ng cash


deliveries.
Mr. Concon, when did Ms. Deguito call you? Lets start from the
first pick up sa bahay mo which is February 9.
MS. BAUTISTA.

Sir, ako po ang nag-i-inform kay Maia kung

magkano iyong puwedeng pick up-in na funds.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Akala ko si Maia ang nagbibigay ng

instructions sa inyo?
MS. BAUTISTA.

Hindi.

Iyong mga cash nakasi kami ang

magre-raise ng funds. So at the end of the day, kung magkano iyong


kaya naming i-raise for the day, iyon iyong ini-inform namin sa kanya.
THE CHAIRMAN. Kung magkano iyongSo, teka muna. Ikaw
iyong tumatawag kay Maia.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

So paano nalalaman ngayon ni Mr.

Kim Wong na kailangan pick up-in na sa bahay nyo?


MS. BAUTISTA. Baka ho si Maia ang nagsasabi kay Mr. Wong.
Basta may dumadating na lang sa bahay.

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THE CHAIRMAN. So in other words, ang sinasabi mo is, when


you have the amount ready
MS. BAUTISTA. Oo, kasi hindi namin alam within the day kung
magkano iyong kaya naming i
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Then you inform Ms. Deguito.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay. Ms. Deguito.

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.


THE CHAIRMAN. Tama ba iyong sinabi ni Ms. Sheba?
MS. DEGUITO.

Sir, February 5 iyong instruction lang sa akin

was iyong kay Eastern Hawaii and kay Bloomberry.


deliveries po, wala.

For the cash

Wala akong instructions, walang anything.

would like to believe po diretso na silang nag-uusap.


THE CHAIRMAN.

So you say you would like to believe,

diretso silang nag-uusap.


MS. DEGUITO. Opo. Kasi hindi ko po alam iyong mgakahit
iyong mga amounts na noong mga February 9, 10, 11. Hindi ko na po
siya alam.

Basta ang instruction lang po sa akin was to credit

everything to Philrem.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

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Senator Bam.
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong, doon sa mga instructions regarding
pagkuha noong cash, tinawagan ka ba ni Ms. Deguito?
MR. WONG. Hindi po.
SEN. AQUINO.

So ni isang beses hindi ka tinawagan ni Ms.

Deguito tungkol sa mga cash deliveries.


MR. WONG. Wala po.
SEN. AQUINO. Wala. So pagkatapos noong February 5, nagdinner kayo, sa iyong testimony, tumawag ba siya sa iyo ulit? Nagkita
ba kayo ulit? May instructions ba siya sa inyo ulit after February 5?
MR. WONG. Si Maia ho?
SEN. AQUINO. Maia.
MR. WONG. Wala na po siyang mga instructions.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kasi ang sinasabi niya, dito sa mga cash
transactions, hindi na siya nakialam or wala siyang kinalaman. Do you
agree with that?
MR. WONG. Kasi po sabi po nila na lahat ho ipasok iyong one
B, tapos iyong iba kung sana puwede lahat sa Solaire. Nagkaroon ng
cash noong hindi na siya hodoon(?) na ho kami nag-usap.

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SEN. AQUINO.

Okay.

So sumasangayon ka sa testimony ni

Maia na wala na siyang kinalaman doon sa mga instructions?


MR. WONG. Tama po.
SEN. AQUINO.

And Ms. Salud or Concon, you are saying

throughout this whole time, itong lahat ng transaction, kumukuha kayo


ng instruction kay Maia Deguito. Is that what you are saying?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. And this was over the phone?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. So kung i-check natin iyong phone records mo,
may mga records na tawag mula kay Maia Deguito.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. And would you be willing for the Committee to
ask on your behalf
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Smart or Globe?
MS. BAUTISTA. Globe.
SEN. AQUINO. Globe rin.

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So if the Committee requests the phone logs of these dates,


mula kay Kim Wong, kay Maia Deguito and sa inyo, mako-cross
reference natin lahat ito?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. At pumapayag kayo.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.

Ikaw rin ba, Maia, pumapayag ka na i-check

iyong phone records mo?


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Diyan tayo magkakaalaman ng anosige.
I dont know, Mr. Chairman, if you want to call everyones bluff.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. The Director General is hereby directed
to make the necessary inquiries and get the waiver of the persons who
so said that they are willing to have their waivers.
SEN. AQUINO. Maia, ano ang ano mo, Globe ka ba o Smart?
THE CHAIRMAN. Globe din po.
SEN. AQUINO. Globe rin. So we can check.
Puwede akong mag-request, Mr. Chairman? Para lang sigurado
tayo. Can we request Ms. Bautista, Mr. Wong and Ms. Deguito, isulat
nila sa papel iyong number ng isat isa ngayon.

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Iyong number ni Mr. Wong sa phone mo, iyong number ni Ms.


Deguito sa phone mo. Write it down para ma-cross reference natin.
Pag nakuha na natin iyong records, walang puwedeng magsabi, Hindi
akin iyan. Hindi ko telephone number iyan.
So can we request, is that okay, Ms. Deguito at Mr. Wong?
Ginagawa na ni Mr. Wong. Iyong number ni Concon, ni Salud at
ni Maia Deguito na ginagamit sa pagtawag sa inyo. Can you write it
down and we will keep it. Para pag nakuha na natin iyong records, we
can truly cross reference iyong mga phone calls.
Yes, Ms. Salud.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sorry. My number or their number?
SEN. AQUINO.

Their numbers.

Iyong pagkakaalam mo na

numbers nila.
And we will keep it confidential, Mr. Chairman/alicc

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SEN. AQUINO.

And we will keep it confidential, Mr.

Chairman, for privacy sake. But at least alam natin what were talking
about.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Well keep it confidential.
SEN. AQUINO.

Pag na-cross reference natin, makikita talaga

natin kung ano iyong mga numero.


MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Is that okay, Ms. Deguito, iyong number
ni Kim Wong na ginagamit sa pagtawag sa iyo, iyong number ng mga
Bautista sa pagtawag sa iyo, can you write it down?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN. And also the counsels of
MR. WONG. Sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kim Wong, yes.
MR. WONG.

Hindi ko po tanda ang number nila, puwede

number ko alam ko.


SEN. AQUINO. Hindi.

Di ba sa phone mo, naka-save naman

iyong number ng mga Bautista?


MR. WONG. Naka-tap po iyon, eh.

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SEN. AQUINO. Im sorry.


MR. WONG. Naka-tap. Matagal ko na hong pinatay.
SEN. AQUINO. Matagal mo nang pinatay.
MR. WONG. Kasi tinap (tap) nila itong Senate hearing.
SEN. AQUINO.

Okay.

Pero Mr. Wong, wala kang ni kahit

anumang record ng numbers ng mga Bautista at number ni Ms. Maia?


MR. WONG.

Mayroon po.

Nandoon ho sa isang phone ko.

Kukunin ko po.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hindi namanKung puwede nyo pong
ipakuha and can you inform the Committee right away para lang
sigurado tayo sa mga numero ninyo. Pag nag-cross reference tayo
MR. WONG. Bukas ko po ibibigay ko po. Isi-seal ko po.
SEN. AQUINO. All right. Thank you, Mr. Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. The counsels of the three parties, can
you just prepare the written consent to Globe having access to the
records for purposes of the Committee?

We will keep the phone

numbers confidential so that


Atty. Calleja.
MR. CALLEJA.

Your Honor, just to make sure, with the

particular dates only for the time that we are talking about.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.


MR. CALLEJA. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. Lets be clear. FebruaryYes, lets go one by
one.
MR. CALLEJA. 5 to 13.
THE CHAIRMAN. 5 to 13. Iyan, okay, 5 to 13, that range.
Mr. Concon, on February 11 and February 12, there was a pickup
in your house, P100 million on February 11, then $2 million; then P100
million on February 12 plus $3.5 million.

This is based on your

submission.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes. That is correct, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. That is correct. Okay.
Mr. Kim Wong was not there, Mr. Kim Wong was not there.
MR. BAUTISTA.

On the 12th and the 13th, wala si Mr. Kim

Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Wala si Mr. Kim Wong. Ang nandoon langSi
Ms. Sheba ba nandoon nung pickup? Pinick up (pick up) iyong pera,
hindi ba?
Salud.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sorry. Ako po nasa loob ng bahay.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So, you were there?


MS. BAUTISTA. In the house but I wasnt there to
THE CHAIRMAN. In other words, you were in the residence but
you did not come out to witness the pickup?
MS. BAUTISTA. No, I did not.
THE CHAIRMAN. Is that what you were saying?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay, okay, okay.
Okay. So, Mr. Concon, you were there so you handed over the
money. On February 11, P100 million; on February 12, P100 million.
On February 11, $2 million; on February 12, $3.5 million. Submission
nyo po ito.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. And Mr. Kim Wong was not there.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, he was there on the 11th.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, he was there.
MR. BAUTISTA. He was not there on the 12th and the 13th.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, please.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, okay then. He was not there on the 12th
and the 13th.
Well, we wont ask Mr. Kim Wong because in his storyline, there
is no pickup on the 12th and the 13th. So, 12th and 13th. On the
11th, Mr. Kim Wong was there?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
So, on the 12th and the 13th, Mr. Kim Wong was not there to
pick up the money.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So, who picked up the money?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, the same group of Weikang Xu.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Weikang Xu was in your house?
MR. BAUTISTA. The same group of people who would pick up
everyday.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Weikang Xu was in your house?
MR. BAUTISTA. The Chinese people, yes, sir. Same group of
people, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. How many were they?
MR. BAUTISTA. Five, six.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Five or six. All Chinese.


MR. BAUTISTA. Well, with the driver and the bodyguards. Its
the same group of people, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. But the driver and the bodyguard did not go
into your house.
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. They just
THE CHAIRMAN. They stayed out. Who went into your house?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was just outside, by the door. They just
get the money in the box, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. The front door, side door?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, by the front door.
THE CHAIRMAN. The front door. So, they entered your gate
then they entered your gate. Nagtimbre sila, they entered your gate
and they knocked on your front door.
MR. BAUTISTA. They ring the bell, I opened the door for them,
I point out the boxes, they bring it up.
THE CHAIRMAN. Who acted as interpreter then when Mr. Kim
Wong is the interpreter of the group?
those two days?

Who acted as interpreter for

Wala si Mr. Kim Wong, walang interpreter, paano

kayo nag-usap?

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MR. BAUTISTA.

Sir, actually, sir, we dont even talk to one

another. I just point it out, they picked it up, reached the paper, they
signed it, they gave it back. Thats it.
THE CHAIRMAN. Hundreds of millions of pesos and millions of
dollars tapos sign language lang kayo? Okay ito, ah.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, this was towards the tail end so everything
went smoothly in the beginning so I didnt see any problem.
THE CHAIRMAN. No verbal exchange whatsoever.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, I dont speak Chinese.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, thats why, no verbal exchange

whatsoever.
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. They knew that they were there to get
something. I knew they were there to pick up something so we were
in agreement.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Concon, did this really happen?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. All right.
Mr. Kim Wong, sinabi nila nandoon ka daw nung February 11 sa
bahay ni Mr. Bautista to pick up P100 million and $2 million.

Kino-

confirm mo po ba ito?

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MR. WONG. February 11 po?


THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, February 11.
MR. WONG. Wala po ako.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sorry, sorry.
MR. WONG. February 11, wala po ako.
THE CHAIRMAN. Wala?
MR. WONG. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

So, theres again a discrepancy

between the stories, because Mr. Kim Wong is saying he was not there
and Mr. Concon, youre saying he was there.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Mark, ano ang pangalan ng uncle mo, iyong
tito mo, tiyo mo na driver, ano ang first name?
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN. Huh?
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ronilo o Norlito.
MR. PALMARES. Ronilo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Ronilo. Okay.
Ms. Salud, who is Norlito Palmares?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Another uncle of Mark.


THE CHAIRMAN. Another uncle. And who is Alex Largado?
MS. BAUTISTA. An employee of ours.
THE CHAIRMAN. Where does he live?
MS. BAUTISTA. I think he lives somewhere in San Juan.
THE CHAIRMAN.

He lives in San Juan.

stockholder-incorporator of your company.

He is listed as a

And what caught my

attention was his address here is 392 Columbia St.Would you care to
comment on thiswhich is the house where Mr. Palmares lives which
is the house of your father.
MS. BAUTISTA.

Yes, Your Honor, because I think he used to

stayano din siya, stay-in din siya dati tapos lumipat na siya ng San
Juan, I think San Juan is the area.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Okay.

Doon sa tatlo, Mr. Kim Wong, Ms.

Maia Deguito and Ms. Salud. . . (nam)

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THE CHAIRMAN.

Ms. Maia Deguito and Ms. Salud Bautista,

there is also as far as the phone records that were asking you to
produce hanggang February 14 ang gagawin natin na request. Okay?
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Oo, because mayroon daw delivery ng

February 14.
Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask, as I understand these transactions started
with the opening of accounts on May 13, 2015, five accounts in RCBC.
They were dormant until February 5 this year. Then funds flowed from
New York to these RCBC accounts. And later on these funds moved
from those accounts to Philrem. And Philrem distributed these amounts
to different receivers. Thats the way I understood the whole process.
Now, Ms. Deguito, how long did you hold the $81 million in the
accounts that you opened on 13 May, 2015 when the monies were
transferred from New York to those accounts? How long did this stay in
your accounts?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, when it came in, it was credited by
settlements department.

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SEN. ENRILE. No, I am just asking you how long? How many
days?
MS. DEGUITO. Until February 9. So, two banking days po, Your
Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Two banking days.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Okay. So, after two banking days, they were no
longer within the control of RCBC, correct?
MS. DEGUITO. I am sorry, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Correct?
MS. DEGUITO. I am sorry, Your Honor, puwede pong paulit?
SEN. ENRILE.

I am asking you, after two banking days, the

total $81 million was gone from the accounts of RCBC?


MS. DEGUITO.

Your Honor, nandoon pa po iyong peso

equivalent.
SEN. ENRILE. I am just asking you if its true or not.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Its true?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Okay. Then where did they go, to Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.

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SEN. ENRILE. Okay. So, Philrem from February 5 or February 6


orwhat is the next banking day?
VOICE. February 9, sir.
SEN. ENRILE. February 9 is the next banking day?
VOICE. Yes, sir. Kasi holiday po ang Feb 8.
SEN. ENRILE.

Okay. When were the banking days after

February 5?
MS. DEGUITO. February 9, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Nine and 10?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. So, they were gone after that?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. And they went to Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. And how long did this money stay with Philrem?
Ms. Bautista, how long did you hold these funds, until all of it
was gone from your control? How many days?
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, from February 5 to February 13.
SEN. ENRILE. From?
MS. BAUTISTA. From February 5 hanggang February 13 po.
SEN. ENRILE. You have control over this fund from February 5?

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MS. BAUTISTA.

Hindi, iyon po iyong kabuuan kung kailan

namin natapos iyong pag-disburse namin noong transaction.


SEN. ENRILE. No, but when did you actually control the whole
amount?
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, it came kasi po in tranches. Hiwahiwalay po siya.
SEN. ENRILE. Ang sabi ni Ms. Deguito dalawang araw lang, two
banking days lang ang
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po. February 5 po, 9, 10, 11.
SEN. ENRILE. Yeah, those are not banking days.
MS. BAUTISTA.

No, no, they are banking days, sir. Banking

days po iyon noong panahon na ho iyon.


SEN. ENRILE. February 5.
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, February 5, 9, 10, 11. Paunti-unti ho iyon
kine-credit sa amin sa RCBC po, sa branch namin.
SEN. ENRILE.

Saan mo inilagay iyong pera noong tinanggap

mo sa RCBC? Sa bahay?
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po, nasa RCBC account po namin. Nasa
RCBC account po namin.
SEN. ENRILE. In what currency?

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MS. BAUTISTA.

Mayroong in dollars and mayroon pong in

pesos.
SEN. ENRILE. In RCBC account?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. And then from there you draw?
MS. BAUTISTA.

Tapos po nagpadala kami ng transaction ng

RTGS sa Eastern Hawaii at saka nagpadala din ho kami ng transaction


papuntang Bloomberry. Tapos iyong iba po cash.
SEN. ENRILE. Bakit nagwi-withdraw sa bahay mo ng pera?
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po nagwi-withdraw, doon lang iyong pick
up po. Doon lang po iyong pick up.
SEN. ENRILE. Wini-withdraw ninyo sa account ninyo sa RCBC?
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po sa RCBC, halu-halo po. Iba-iba ho ang
pinagkukuhanan namin ng cash kasi malaki iyong amount.
SEN. ENRILE. I am talking of the $81 million, how did it flow
from RCBC to outside accounts?
MS. BAUTISTA.

Noong kinredit (credit) po kami ng bangko,

iyong portion kinonvert (convert) namin sa pesos.


SEN. ENRILE. Iyong $81 million?
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po lahat noong 81. Parang mga 60
SEN. ENRILE. How much was your first conversion?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Our first conversion was I think 14.2 po.


SEN. ENRILE. Huh?
MS. BAUTISTA. Noong Friday po, February 5, 14.2 po ang una
naming conversion.
SEN. ENRILE. Fourteen point two.
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. What was the exchange rate?
MS. BAUTISTA. Binenta ko po sa RCBC treasury ng 47.72.
SEN. ENRILE. Forty-seven?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. Iyon ang exchange rate on that day, huh?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, sir.
SEN. ENRILE. And then the next conversion?
MS. BAUTISTA. Ang susunod po naming conversion ay noong
February 9, isang 15 million po at saka isang 17 million.
SEN. ENRILE. Fifteen
MS. BAUTISTA. Fifteen million at saka 17 million po. Binenta
din po namin sa treasury ng bangko.
SEN. ENRILE. Ano ang exchange rate?
MS. BAUTISTA. Forty-seven seventy-two posorry, 47. 74 at
saka 47.73.

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SEN. ENRILE. And then pagkatapos? Ang first conversion $14


million plus on February 5, ganoon ba?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. And then iyong sumunod February 9 na?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. And then the rest magkano na iyon? Magkano na
iyan?
MS. BAUTISTA. Tapos kinonvert (convert) po namin iyong bale
15 million, 17, tapos may 215, tapos iyong
SEN. ENRILE. Total. What is the total of that?
MS. BAUTISTA. Iyong total po ng aming
SEN. ENRILE. No, no i-total mo lahat para malaman natin the
amount converted on different dates on different rates.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sixty two po. Sixty two million eight eight four,
six four one point sixty-three po (62,884,641.63).
SEN. ENRILE. So, if youll subtract that from 81 what was the
balance that are converted at that point?
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, 18 million po/rommel

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MS. BAUTISTA.

Sir, 18 million po.

SEN. ENRILE. Huh?


MS. BAUTISTA. Eighteen million po.
SEN. ENRILE. Eighteen million.
MS. BAUTISTA.

Opo, sir.

SEN. ENRILE. Ang naiwan?


MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. Iyong total amount na na-convert, what was the
total amount in pesos? What was the proceeds of the conversion?
MS. BAUTISTA.

Two billion nine, eight, five, zero, zero, five,

zero, zero, zero point 14 (2,985,005,000.14).


SEN. ENRILE. Will you say that slowly so that maisulat?
MS. BAUTISTA. Sorry po.
SEN. ENRILE.

Masyadong mabilis, magaling ka talaga sa

figures.
MS. BAUTISTA. Two billiontwo, nine, eight, five, zero, zero,
five, zero, zero, zero point 14 (2,985,005,000.14).
SEN. ENRILE. So that is the
MS. BAUTISTA. Iyon po iyong na-convert sa pesos.
SEN. ENRILE. So with a balance of?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Eighteen million dollars po


SEN. ENRILE. Iyong $18 million
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. So when was the next conversion?
MS. BAUTISTA. Ay, wala na po, sir, tapos na.
SEN. ENRILE. Iyon na?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. What happened to the 88?
MS. BAUTISTA.

Okay.

Iyong 18 million po, part iyon nung

cash delivery namin ng dollars at saka iyong P600 million na diniliver


(deliver) din po namin ng cash
SEN. ENRILE. Sandali lang, sandali lang.
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay.
SEN. ENRILE. Eighteen million, diniliver (deliver) ninyo iyon in
kind, in currency, in dollars?
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, in dollars.
SEN. ENRILE. Kanino?
MS. BAUTISTA. Kay Mr. Weikang Xu.
SEN. ENRILE. How much did you deliver to Weikang Xu out of
the $18 million?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Ang total po noon $18 million.


SEN. ENRILE. Ang totalibinigay ninyo iyong $18 million kay
Weikang Xu.
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, sir.
SEN. ENRILE.

At saka 600 million po na pesos.

On that day that you delivered the $18 million

to Weikang Xu, what was the exchange rate?


MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, wala na pong exchange rate kasi po natira
iyon doon sa
SEN. ENRILE. No, mayroon. Mayroong exchange rate on that
day.
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi. Pero dollar delivery lang
SEN. ENRILE. I want to know if you converted that in pesos
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi na ho kinonvert (convert) iyon kasi dollar
ho iyong credit sa amin, dollar din po namin dineliver (deliver).
SEN. ENRILE. Correct.

But there was an exchange rate for

that day. What was it?


MS. BAUTISTA.

Iba-iba ho, sir.

Iyong average po nung

daily
SEN. ENRILE. What was the average kung iba-iba?
MS. BAUTISTA. Forty-seven, seventy-twoaverage.

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SEN. ENRILE. Forty-seven?


MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, 47.72. Iba-iba ho iyon, nandoon po sa
accounting namin.
SEN. ENRILE.

Ano ang average?

They publish the average

every day. You are a money changer, you must know that.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, ang average po is 47.65.
SEN. ENRILE. Now, if you convert $18 million to that average,
what was it in pesos?
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, 857.7 million po.
SEN. ENRILE.

Okay.

So that is the totality of the money of

Bangladesh, in pesos, that


MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, 857 at saka 2.9 billion po.
SEN. ENRILE.

Now, in other words, the whole amount was

handled by you.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Dumaan po sa amin iyong pera lahat.
SEN. ENRILE. The whole amount passed through your hands.
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, sir. Galing po sa bangko, galingkami
po ang nag-ano sa mga casino.
SEN. ENRILE. And you were the ones who distributed it to the
beneficiaries supposedly.

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MS. BAUTISTA. Opo.


SEN. ENRILE. Okay. Thats all, thank you.
SEN. AQUINO.
query earlier.

Mr. Chairman, Id just like to follow up my

Kasi kanina tumungo silang lahat at magsusulat ng

mga numbers pero nung kinolekta nung Page natin, wala namang
ibinigay. So Id just like to confirm.
Ms. Deguito, kailan niyo isusulat iyong mga telephone numbers
na mayroon sa inyo?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, kasi iyong isang telepono ko nasa bahay.
But I texted na para i-send sa akin iyong mga numbers, and I will give
it to you later.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

So today?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes.


SEN. AQUINO. Okay, thank you.
Mr. Wong, bukas sabi ninyo
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chairman, Ill just finish this.
SEN. AQUINO. Im sorry.
SEN. ENRILE. Do you have any photograph of Mr. Weikang Xu?
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, iyong passport po niya.
SEN. ENRILE. Hindi. Nasa iyo?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, ibinigay na po namin sa inyo at saka sa


AMLC iyong reports ho namin, lahat po.
SEN. ENRILE. Ah ganoon.
THE CHAIRMAN.

No, no.

Not the passport.

You mean the

photocopy.
MS. BAUTISTA.

Picture.

Hindi ho iyong passport, iyong

photocopy lang po.


THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, a photocopy of the passport picture.

MS. BAUTISTA. Photocopy lang po. Opo.


SEN. ENRILE.

Can we check in the immigration bureau, Mr.

Chairman
MS. BAUTISTA. Opo, sir. Yes, please.
SEN. ENRILE. who this Weikang Xu is and how often was he
in the country and whether he was in the county at the time material
to this incident?
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Mr. Senator. There is already a reply of
the Immigration.
SEN. ENRILE. What was their reply?
THE CHAIRMAN. Nandiyan at saka saI think your office has
been furnished a copy.

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SEN. ENRILE. Anong sabi ba nila? [Informal Discussion]


SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator Bam.
SEN. AQUINO.

I just have a question for Mr. Wong.

Sabi niyo ho bukas niyo ibibigay iyong mga numbers.

Pero

iyong number po ninyo na gamit ninyo noon, masusulat niyo na po?


MR. WONG. Naisulat ko na ho.
SEN. AQUINO. Naisulat mo na. Naibigay mo na ba?
MR. WONG.

Iyong number po nila hindi ko ma-memorize.

Iyong akin, mayroon po.


SEN. AQUINO. Iyan ho iyong number ninyo na ginagamit niyo
noon, during these times?
MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.

Yes, thank you. Naisulat niyo na? Pakibigay.

Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.


SEN. ENRILE. [Inaudible] this. According to the Immigration
Commission, there is no such person entering the Philippines, is that
so? Is that the
[Informal Discussion]
May I have time to read this, Mr. Chairman?

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THE CHAIRMAN. Certainly.


Okay, Senator Bam.
SEN. AQUINO. May we instruct the Page to getito iyong kay
Mr. Wong, ano?

This is from the Bautistas.

Iyong kay Mr. Wong,

nandoon. And I think the lawyers will be preparing the waiver for the
phone records, if we can kindly receive that today as well?
Okay, thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, Atty. Calleja.

Could you talk to the

mike, please?
MR. CALLEJA. Mr. Chairman, we will just prepare the waiver,
even tomorrow. Well prepare it in the office.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chairman, just a minute. According to this,
this is a communication of the
THE CHAIRMAN. Well get back to you.
Okay, Senator Enrile.
SEN. ENRILE.

This is a communication of the Department of

Foreign Affairs to the Committee, and it says that the Philippine Consul
General in Chongqing, China informed the departmentthat the post
has not issued a visa to Mr. Weikang Xu.

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Now, how is it that he was in the country? If this is correct, then


something is wrong with our system of immigration.
I

will

read

into

the

record

what

was

written

in

this

communication. This was the letterhead of the Department of Foreign


Affairs.

Kagawaran

ng

Ugnayang

Panlabas,

Office

of

the

Undersecretary for Civilian Security and Consular Concerns, etcetera,


Confidential.
Dear Atty. Quimbo:
Further to this Office letter dated 08 April 2016, regarding the
visa application of Mr. Weikang Xu./jbc

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SEN. ENRILE. ...Mr. Weikang Xu. Transmitted herewith is Fax


ZQ203-203-206216 dated 07 April 2016 from the Philippine Consulate
General in Chongqing, China, informing the department that post has
not issued any visa to Xu, Weikang with Passport No. G51836410 and
date of birth, 03 November 1972.
Thank you.
Sincerely, by Authority of the Secretary of Foreign Affairs,
Rafael E. Seguis, Undersecretary.
So it becomes material to find out whether a person with the
same photograph, with the same passport entered the country and
that can only be verified from the Immigration Commission and we
have to find out. This is a part of our duty and oversight of...
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Mr. Minority Floor Leader, we will.
I understand, Ms. Abad, the AMLC has already coordinated with
the Immigration. What was relayed to you by the Immigration?
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chair, with due respect, the matter is within
the jurisdiction of the Blue Ribbon Committee. We are not concerned
about the

Executive Department.

It is a function of legislation and

policy determination so I think we have to exercise our right to know


what is going on.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes, what is your specific request, Mr.

Senator?

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SEN. ENRILE. I am addressing this to the Chair. This is a very


material matter.
THE CHAIRMAN.

Yes.

What is your specific request, Mr.

Senator?
SEN. ENRILE. Huh?
THE CHAIRMAN. What is the specific request?
SEN. ENRILE. I leave it to the Chair. You are confronted with
the documentwhere the Chair is confronted with the document
saying that there is no such visa issued.

Then the next question is

why was he in the Philippines to be involved in this kind of an


operation.
THE CHAIRMAN.

I see.

Well, there is this letter of

Commissioner Geron dated March 16, and it says:


Dear Director Conchu of the Blue Ribbon.

The Bureau of

Immigration records show that Weikang Xu is a PROC national with


date of birth on November 3, 1972.

On 18 March 2015, Xu first

arrived in the Philippines via flight CZ 377 at NAIA Terminal 1. And on


March 24, 2015, he departed the Philippines.

On April 1, 2015, he

returned to the Philippines. The Bureau of Immigration granted him a


Temporary Visitor Visa. It appears that Xu is still in the Philippines.
SEN. ENRILE. Okay. Did we verify whether the Xu mentioned
in the passport, mentioned by Mrs. Bautista is the same person

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covered by that communication of the Bureau of Immigration? Did the


Blue Ribbon Committee did that function to find out if there is an
equality of identity between the Weikang Xu that has been mentioned
here and the Weikang Xu who is the subject of that communication?
THE CHAIRMAN.

I understand the director general would like

to explain something.
Director General.
THE DIRECTOR GENERAL.

Mr. Chair, initially we have

problems because when the Bureau of Immigration wrote to us for the


first time, they were asking us which Weikang Xu we were referring to
because there are many Weikang Xus in their records. So what we did
was try to find out what the birthday was and when we found out what
the birthday was, we wrote to the DFA and then we wrote again to the
Bureau of Immigration and the reply of which is something that were
trying to fish out from our document box right now. Once we find it,
Mr. Chair, we will show it to you but it is there, and were looking for it.
SEN. ENRILE. The Weikang Xu of Ms. Bautista, whose birthday
supposed to be 3 November 1972 is the same Weikang Xu as that one
referred to in the communication of Commissioner Geron of the
Immigration? Is that correct?
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. I am informed this is.
SEN. ENRILE. So he was here... to this issue?

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THE CHAIRMAN. He was here.


SEN. ENRILE. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. All right. That matter being settled, we are
Yes, yes.
Mr. Notary Public, Mr. Renato De Jesus, kamusta na?
MR. DE JESUS. I would like to submit additional proof to show
that my real signatureto prove my real signature.
THE CHAIRMAN. What will you submit then, another document
having your signature?
MR. DE JESUS. Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. And this is the same as the one that is here
in the affidavit?
MR. DE JESUS.

I am submitting my specimen signature to

prove that the signature appearing in this affidavit of Mr. Mark


Raymond Valenzuela Palmares is a forgery. So if I will be allowed-SEN. ENRILE. What signature? What signature is forgery?
MR. DE JESUS. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Huh?
MR. DE JESUS.
SEN. ENRILE.

This is different. This is not my signature.


Is this notarial book stated here correct?

Notarial Book No. XLVIII, is this your notarial book?


MR. DE JESUS. Alin po? Alin po, ito?

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SEN. ENRILE. Is this your notarial book?


MR. DE JESUS. Opo. Ito, ito.
SEN. ENRILE. Opo.
MR. DE JESUS. Opo.
SEN. ENRILE. The document number is 57, is this correct?
MR. DE JESUS. What I am questioning here, Your Honor is-SEN. ENRILE. Is it correct? I am only asking if it is correct, No.
57? Fifty-two, 52 pala. Sorry. Oversight of an old man. Okay. Fiftytwo.
MR. DE JESUS. Document number 52.
SEN. ENRILE. Is this correct, document number 52?
MR. DE JESUS. Hindi ko po alam kung sino ang nag-indicate.
SEN. ENRILE. Is it correct? Tama ba iyon, document number?
Iyon lang ang tinatanong ko sa iyo. Abogado ka. Hindi ka-MR. DE JESUS.

Hindi ko po kabisado iyong naka-entrada.

Pero ang masasabi ko po sa inyo, ito pong signature na ito is fake.


This is not my signature.
SEN. ENRILE.

Correct.

But you entered it in your book,

notarial book. That is your responsibility. Document number 52, page


of your notarial book-MR. DE JESUS. Fake pong signature, fake.
SEN. ENRILE. Even then but it is part of your record now.

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MR. DE JESUS. Hindi po pumasok ito-SEN. ENRILE. What are you going to do? In fact.../smv

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SEN. ENRILE. In fact, I do not know whether you can say that
this is fake because this is a free-flowing signature.
MR. DE JESUS. This is not my signature, Your Honor.
SEN. ENRILE. Whose signature is it?
MR. DE JESUS. Thats what I do not know, sir.
SEN. ENRILE. But if I am a judge, we appear before a judge on
this witness, he is more credible because, in fact, his statements are
spontaneous and he pointed to you as being there. How can you say
that?
And then you had a signature and its a free-flowing including
your initial. Nobody can forge that kind ofcan do that forgery.
MR. DE JESUS. This is not my signature. In fact, I am
submitting to this honorable Senate the following document that will
show my real signature.
SEN. ENRILE. Yes, but the question is, as an attorney, who has
custody of your notarial book to be able to enter Document No. 52, in
its Page 12, in its Book XLV 111, Series of 2016? Who has custody,
hindi ba ikaw?
MR. DE JESUS. Wala po akong custody nito.
SEN. ENRILE. Huh?

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MR. DE JESUS. Wala po.


SEN. ENRILE. Sino ang may custody noong libro mo?
MR. DE JESUS. Sapagkat ito po ay dala lang po itogawain po
ito ng kung sino man ang pumirma dito.
SEN. ENRILE. Itong dokumentong ito cannot write itself in your
notarial book unless you allowed that person to record this document
in your notarial book because you were supposed to be the custodian
of your notarial book.
MR. DE JESUS. From the very start as I have told you, hindi
naman ho ito dumaan sa amin.
SEN. ENRILE. Never mind. You explain that to the Supreme
Court. I think you are open to disbarment.
THE CHAIRMAN. Atty. de Jesus, could you just submit na lang
iyong notarial book mo?
MR. DE JESUS. Opo, Im willing to do that.
THE CHAIRMAN. Submit it and have it photocopied just so that
we could examine it.
MR. DE JESUS. Opo, Im willing to submit it.
THE CHAIRMAN. For the period in question, of course.
MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.


The Chair declares a two minute suspension.

[THE HEARING WAS SUSPENDED AT 1:20 P.M.]

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[THE HEARING WAS RESUMED AT 1:32 P.M.]

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay, hearing resumed.


Senator Osmea.
SEN. OSMEA. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, everybody.
First, because this hearing is mainly in aid of legislation, we
would like to go through the process of RCBC and if Mr. Tan would like
to respond.
Mr. Tan, every bank has been mandated by the AMLC and the
Bangko Sentral to have a Compliance Committee, hindi ba?
MR. L. TAN. Yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA.

Now, how has the Compliance Committee

performed in this particular case?


MR. L. TAN. Sir, the AMLC Compliance Committee decided on
the filing of the STR report on the accounts.
SEN. OSMEA. The Compliance Committee has to be the one
to file an STR report?
MR. L. TAN.

Well, when the branch recommends filing of an

STR on an account, it goes through a Compliance Committee which


meets once a week.

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SEN.

OSMEA.

So,

its

the

branch

that

makes

the

recommendation.
MR. L. TAN. Yes.
SEN. OSMEA.

In this case, did Ms. Deguito make the

recommendation?
MR. L. TAN.

Yes.

It depends

on the business units, Your

Honor. But in this case


SEN. OSMEA.

In this case, did Ms. Deguito make the

recommendation to file a suspicious transaction report with the AMLC?


MR. L. TAN. It came from the business head, Raul Tan, sir, the
recommendation to file an STR report.
SEN. OSMEA. But you just said that you are dependent upon
the recommendation of the branch manager on filing an STR or a
suspicious transaction report.
MR.

L.

TAN.

Well,

in

most

cases,

Your

Honor,

the

recommendation
SEN. OSMEA. No. Mr. Tan, I am talking about this particular
case.
Ms. Deguito, did you recommend the filing of an STR?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, the process in the bank normally
SEN. OSMEA. Did you recommend the filing?

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MS. DEGUITO. No, sir. It was


SEN. OSMEA. You never did.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA. So, you did not find this suspicious transaction.
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, Id like to discuss that in the process in the
bank, commonly, the reports shall be received by the branch the
following day.
SEN. OSMEA. Ms. Deguito, did you recommend the filing of a
suspicious transaction report?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, I did not.
SEN. OSMEA. You never did.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes.
SEN. OSMEA.

So, whats a bother of explaining what the

process is, hindi ka naman nag-recommend.

Why did you not

recommend? You did not find this suspicious?


MS. DEGUITO.

Sir, as per procedure, I have not experienced

those like you will recommend for an STR because iyon nga po may
proseso siya na the following day siya niri-reveal lahat, nasa isang file
siya, may system siya, sir. So, nandoon po lahat kung ipa-file mo siya
ng CTR or STR.

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SEN. OSMEA. May we know if Ms. Bacay is around, Ms. Julia


Bacay-Abad of the AMLC? She was here earlier, wasnt she?
All right. May we ask the committee staff to locate her because
she would have to listen to this question and answer and make a
response.
All right.

Ms. Deguito, have you ever filed a suspicious

transaction report at any time in your life?


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir, in the previous bank. And, sir, hindi po
kasi siya sa level ko, taga-approve lang po ako ng mga suspicious
transaction report pero hindi ako iyong naggagawa.
SEN. OSMEA.

Hindi.

Sinong pumipirma niyan, kung hindi

iyong branch manager?


MS. DEGUITO.

We dont sign anything, Your Honor.

Its a

system where you encode all the details of the report.


SEN. OSMEA. Okay. There is no physical signing but you do
file it.

You do, what, you send an email to headquarters or head

office?
MS. DEGUITO.

Yes, sir.

Your Honor, its actually the head

office who extracts everything and sends it to the branch through the
system and then we will do
SEN. OSMEA. No, no, no.

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Mr. Tan, what triggers a suspicious transaction report?


MR. TAN. First of all, Your Honor, they go through the hurdle,
what they call the covered transactions. And then out of the covered
transactions, those that are considered suspicious are flagged by the
front liners. In this case, either the branch or the various businesses.
And so all the different businesses of the bank have to go through their
know-your-customer policies and procedures.
SEN. OSMEA. Thats right. And if it is a KYC, your front line is
the branch manager, hindi ba?
MR. L. TAN. That is right, sir.
SEN. OSMEA. She is the one who brings in the customer, she
is the one who knows the customer, she knows the habits of the
customer, she knows the deposits of the customer, and

she knows

when something is out of line, correct?


MR. L. TAN. That is right, sir.
SEN. OSMEA. All right.
Now, a covered transaction report is automaticcpc

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SEN. OSMEA.

Now, a covered transaction report is

automatic, anything over 500,000?


MR. L. TAN. It is done by a system, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.

All right. Now, so a suspicious transaction

report is more of a discretionary thing on the part of the branch


manager?
MR. L. TAN.

Yes, Your Honor. It requires experience and

instincts of the front liner.


SEN. OSMEA. Well, in this case it is so simple. You have got
five dormant accounts, it receives $81 million. I dont think in any
language that would not be considered suspicious, hindi ba?
MR. L. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. In other words, a suspicious transaction report
is not a criminal charge. It is just a warning to the bank that maybe
they should be looked into because it is something that is out of the
ordinary. It is more than what the customer normally deposits and in
this case, the customer never deposited anything except $500. Is that
correct?
MR. L. TAN. Thats right, Your Honor.

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SEN. OSMEA. All right. So, Ms. Deguito, why did you not file a
suspicious transaction report in this particular case?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, it is not within my duty to file. It is
my duty to approve the filing of the STR.
SEN. OSMEA. No, maam. It is very clear here that the front
liners

are the branch managers. Who will file if not the branch

manager? Who? The bishop? The barangay captain? Hindi naman nila
alam iyon.
MS. DEGUITO.

Sir, it is the senior customer relationship officer

that files.
SEN. OSMEA.

No, no. Of course, not. You are the one who

knows your customer. They never met any of these five characters
who supposedly opened those accounts. You were the only one. And
under the know your customer, you cannot expect Mr. Tan or Mr. Raul
Tan to know your customer. You are the one who traders a suspicious
transaction report. And in this case, you did not, am I correct? Is the
committee correct in assuming that you never filed the suspicious
transaction report in this particular--?
MS. DEGUITO.

On the day, Your Honor, yes.

SEN. OSMEA. You filed one later?

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MS. DEGUITO.

Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. How many days later?


MS. DEGUITO. I think after two days, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Do you have a copy of that?
MS. DEGUITO.

Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. May we have a copy?


MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.

Yes, Your Honor.


Was that an electronic? Was that an email

that you sent in filing a suspicious? What does it look like physically?
MS. DEGUITO.

Its a system, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. What does it look like physically?


MS. DEGUITO.

Its like an Excel file.

SEN. OSMEA. Is it a piece of paper that you fill out and send
to head office or is it merely an encoding of an electronic message
to?
MS. DEGUITO.

Yes, Your Honor. Its merely an encoding and

then automatic send.


SEN. OSMEA. Mr. Tan, did you receive that suspicious
transaction report from Mr. Deguito?
MR. L. TAN. The banking head, Your Honor.

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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. I can answer it, Your Honor.


SEN. OSMEA.

No, I dont want you to answer this because

you dont have the line function here. I think it is Mr. Raul Tan who
was head of treasury who should be able to answer this.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, sir. The question pertains as to who filed the
report, Your Honor?
SEN. OSMEA. Opo.
MR. R. TAN.

It was actually a filing of the SCRO on, I think,

February 10.
SEN. OSMEA. Ano po ang tawag diyan, SRO?
MR. R. TAN. SCRO.
SEN. OSMEA. What does it stand for?
MR. R. TAN. Senior customer relationship officer.
SEN. OSMEA. Senior customer relationship officer. Who would
that be?
MR. R. TAN. Ms. Torres.
SEN. OSMEA. Ms. Torres.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, sir. But actually excuse me, Your HonorIt
was actually the head office who instructed SCRO to file the STR and
they were delayed, Your Honor.

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SEN. OSMEA.

I see. So you had to tell them to file the

suspicious transaction report?


MR. R. TAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. How many days later?


MR. R. TAN. We asked them to file February 5, Your Honor, in
the evening.
SEN. OSMEA. You asked them to file a suspicious transaction
report on February 5?
MR. R. TAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. And when did they file it?


MR. R. TAN. February 10.
SEN. OSMEA. On February 10. So, on February 8, that was a
holiday, a Monday?
MR. R. TAN. Yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA. Chinese New Year.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA. On February 9 was the first working day after
February 5?
MR. R. TAN. Yes, sir.

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SEN. OSMEA.

And they still did not file a

suspicious

transaction report but instead remitted the money outwards?


MR. R. TAN. Basically, yes, sir.
SEN. OSMEA. Ms. Deguito, you received instructions to make
or file a suspicious transaction report on February 5. Do you
acknowledge that?
MS. DEGUITO.

Yes, Your Honor. We received the email

instructing us to file the STR. It was sent past 9 oclock in the evening.
It was read the following banking day which is February 9.
SEN. OSMEA. On February 9. And what time did you read it?
MS. DEGUITO.

Early in the morning, Your Honor. And Ive

asked her to do the filing already because it was really her duty to do
the filing.
SEN. OSMEA. And you filed it on February 10?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, can she answer for that?
SEN. OSMEA. Yes, Ms. Torres.
MS. TORRES.

Offline po kasi iyong system, Your Honor. So

hindi po namin siya nai-file nung February 9. So February 10 namin


siya nai-file. Kasi lagi naman pong offline. May email naman sila na
Base60 is offline. So hindi ko po siya nai-file noong February 9.

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SEN. OSMEA. Teka muna. Paano nagiging offline iyan?


MS. TORRES. System po kasi siya, sir. System.
SEN. OSMEA. System.
MS. TORRES.

May pinapasukan pa po kaming Base60 AMLA

system, doon po namin ini-input iyong mga details. Saka hindi lang po
siya basta-basta ipa-file. Marami po siyang kailangan. So hindi po
isang upuan matatapos mo siya.
SEN. OSMEA.

Mr. Raul Tan, you heard their response. You

asked them, you directed them to file an STR on February 5 and they
said it was too late for them to read the message. On February 9, the
first working day, your systems were reportedly down. Is that correct?
MR. R. TAN. Based on the record, its not, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. It was not?
MR. R. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Ms. Torres, bakit mo sinasabi na sira. Nandito
naman, sinasagot ni Mr. Raul Tan na hindi naman sira?
MS. TORRES.

Sir, siguro pwede kong makita iyong sinasabi

nilang day kasi offline po talaga. Ipa-file ko naman po iyon kung


kailangang i-file. Wala naman po akong reason para hindi i-file.
SEN. OSMEA. Baka in-unplug lang ninyo.

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MS. TORRES.

Ah, hindi po, sir.

SEN. OSMEA. Hindi?


MS. TORRES. Hindi po totoo iyon.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Yes.
MR. R. TAN. Sir, the way it works, you file it in the system thats
what she is calling the Base60 and then that moves from the branch to
head office to AML department. So in this case, when they filed it
actually filed it, AML department had to revise the report because
there were deficiencies before they were able to actually file it the
following day, I think February 11, with AMLC.
SEN. OSMEA. I dont understand. All the Committee is trying
to find out from you when she receivedwhen Ms. Deguito first
received the order to file an STR?
MR. R. TAN. That was February 5, Your Honor, in the evening.
SEN. OSMEA.

No, she said she did not receive it in the

evening. My question is, when did she receive it? You must have had
acknowledgment.
MR. R. TAN.

The request, Your Honor? The email? The email

was sent in the evening when the request for hold was done and
then

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SEN. OSMEA. Alam mo, you can send something blind but the
person who is supposed to be the recipient does not acknowledge
receipt, then you cannot assume that he read it.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. When did you learn that she had read while she
said
MR. R. TAN.

She just mentioned she read it early morning

February 9.
SEN. OSMEA. Early morning February 9.
MR. R. TAN. Thats what she said.
SEN. OSMEA. But she said thathow could she read it when
she said the systems were down?
MR. R. TAN.

No, no. Sir, not the system but she read the

request or the instruction to file the STR on February 9 in the morning.


SEN. OSMEA. How was that instruction sent to them?
MR. R. TAN. It was via an email, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Sabi nga down nga yung systems nila ni--Ms.
Torres.
MR. R. TAN. Your Honor, its not down based on our records.

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MS. TORRES. Sir, ang sinasabi kong down is the Base60, hindi
po iyong email.
SEN. OSMEA. Basic?
MS. TORRES. The system for STR. Iyon po yung offline.
SEN. OSMEA.

Tinatanong ko lang kung nabasa ninyo, kung

natanggap ninyo. Not whether


MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, the email was sent I think theres
SEN. OSMEA. When did you read his email?
MS. DEGUITO. February 9 first thing in the morning between
8:30 to 9:00 in the morning po/jad

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MS. DEGUITO.

to 9 oclock in the morning po.

SEN. OSMEA. All right. So there was a reason, Mr. Raul Tan.
What was the reason you asked them to file an STR? Do you give
reasons or you just give a preemptory order and say, Mag-file ka ng
STR?
MR. R. TAN.

The e-mail just said, Branch to file an STR.

SEN. OSMEA.

It didnt say why?

MR. R. TAN. No, sir.


SEN. OSMEA.

All right.

And when you do get that, how

long do you expect them to respond?


MR. R. TAN.

They should file it immediately.

SEN. OSMEA. Immediately, meaning, the same day?


MR. R. TAN.

As soon as they get it.

SEN. OSMEA. Within a couple of hours, ganoon?


MR. R. TAN.

Yes, sir.

SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.

I believe they filed it February 10.

SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.

And when did they actually file it?

The next day.

Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA.

Now you do have supposedly systems

mandated by the AMLC and the Bangko Sentral on how your

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compliance with the Anti-Money Laundering Law should be exercised or


pursued, hindi ba?
MR. R. TAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA.

You do have a compliance committee working

under the board of directors.


MR. R. TAN.

Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA.

Who are the members of thosewho are the

members of the compliance committee?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, it would be myself
as head of Legal and Regulatory Affairs, Raul aswell, not anymore
Raulthe head of Retail Banking Group; Dennis Bancod, who is the
head of the operations; our comptroller or our CFO and our compliance
officer, our AMLC head and our legal division head.
SEN. OSMEA.

Thats five. Is that five?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

It should be seven. I think we

were seven.
SEN. OSMEA.

Seven.

May we have a list on paper?

Now, when was this brought up

before the compliance committee?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

The committee met on it on

February 11, Your Honor, and we decided to have the Suspicious


Transactions Reports filed on the same day.

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SEN.

OSMEA.

You

decided

to

Transactions Report filed on the same day.

have

the

Suspicious

Filed with whom?

File

with the AMLC?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
SEN. OSMEA.

AMLC. Yes, Your Honor.

But the Suspicious Transactions Report was

already sent to you on February 10 or the day before?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
the 11th.

I understand, sir, it arrived on

There were numerous follow-ups from compliance and from

our AMLC department with the branch, but there was difficulty in
getting the information and the filings from the branch itself.
SEN. OSMEA. Why?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Incomplete information.

We

dont really know but there were many calls that were made to them
and it took a long time and on the 11th, the information came in and
the committee met and it was filed, Your Honor.

So the delay was

really from the branch but we met on the 11th and filed on that date.
SEN. OSMEA.

But thats pretty slow.

So thats February 5,

you received the request from New York and from Bangladesh and
then you made your move on February 11.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Our request from Bangladesh

arrived on February 9 and 10, Your Honor.

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SEN. OSMEA. What did you receive from abroad on February


5?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
SEN. OSMEA.

The funds, Your Honor.

I see. So it was only on February 9 that the

Bangladesh request reached you?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Nine and 10, Your Honor.

There were four.


SEN. OSMEA.

Nine and 10.

Did you receive any request

from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
from them.

We never received anything

We just received the funds through the correspondent

banks, Your Honor.


SEN. OSMEA.

I am curious, Governor Espenilla.

Why did

not the Federal Reserve Bank of New York file a complaint or ask the
bank to stop payment?

We are just asking forwe are trying to

obtain knowledge on how this works.


MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, I am not entirely sure why they
didnt but theythats one procedure that they can actually undertake
over the Federal Reserve as the sending bank, Mr. Chairman.

But in

this case, they didnt until after five transactions later.


SEN. OSMEA.

After the fifth transaction, the Federal Reserve

Bank made the move?

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MR. ESPENILLA. I have no direct knowledge but I have read


that they inquired with the Bangladesh Bank. Thats the time that
they
SEN. OSMEA. But they never followed it up with you because
after all nandoon ang pera sa kanila, hindi ba? Sila ang nag-remit sa
RCBC.
MR. ESPENILLA.

Yes, the Bangladesh Bank, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. OSMEA. So the conduit bank, which is in this case, the


Federal Reserve Bank of New York, and then the other commercial
banks that have correspondent relationships with RCBC did

not

complain at all through the Bangko Sentral.


MR. ESPENILLA.

We are not aware of such a complaint, Mr.

Chairman.
SEN. OSMEA.

Thats very strange.

So it was only the

Bangladesh Bank who owned the money which made the complaint,
but their bankers in New York never made a complaint.
MR. ESPENILLA.

Apparently, Mr. Chairman, because thats

what Ive learned from


SEN. OSMEA. I am not talking about complaint, at least never
sent a message to you to please stop payment.
MR. ESPENILLA.

I am not aware of such, Mr. Chairman.

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SEN. OSMEA.

Now in future transactions of this sort, would

you say that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York should have also
made representations with the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas? We cant
put that into the law but we just want to know what the protocol is.
MR. ESPENILLA.

Mr. Chairman, from what I know of the

situation, the Federal Reservethe customer of the Federal Reserve is


actually Bangladesh Bank.

And one of the responsibilities of the

originating bank is really to check the validity of the transaction.


Thats a procedure that they can
SEN. OSMEA. By originating bank, you are referring to Bank of
Bangladesh?
MR. ESPENILLA.

No, Mr. Chairman.

The originating bank is

the Federal Reserve.


SEN. OSMEA.

The Federal Reserve of New York. Okay. And

they did not?


MR. ESPENILLA. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that they did not.
SEN. OSMEA.

Can you make just an informal inquiry,

Governor Espenilla, and ask them why they did not?

It isnt like we

are trying to find fault, but again we are trying to trace the process. It
would seem strange to me that almost a billion dollars would have
been taken out of an account with the Fed New York and they wouldnt
move on it.

Parang automatic lang na in, out and bahala kayo sa

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buhay ninyo.

Just for, you know, an informal question directed at

Federal Reserve Bank of New York.


MR. ESPENILLA. We can try that, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. OSMEA.

All right.

Now, wed like to direct our

questions nowlet me finish with the compliance committee.


So the compliance committee is merely a reactive body.

You

just react when you hear of something. You dont actively seek. You
dont tell, say, people at treasury, If theres anything suspicious, let
us know also.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Well, Your Honor, we do. Our
compliance office does regular lectures and advises the entire bank
and all the units of what their obligations are under the AMLC laws. So
its proactive in that sense, and then it depends on the feedback that it
gets from the system, our computerized system as well as from the
branches or the different units. But we review the inputs that are
placed in the system on a daily basis to see if there are any
transactions which can be deemed suspicious. So we also can tell the
branch, for example, if they fail to do so like this instance although the
head office told them. But we can tell them, You need to file
Suspicious Transactions Report given what we see unless you can
justify. And then if there are arguments, Your Honor, we decidethe
committee decides.

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SEN. OSMEA.

Looking back, what would you have done

differently?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Well, first thing I would have
done differently is to have made sure that the branch manager would
not have made so many decisions given thatthe way that it turned
out.
SEN. OSMEA.

But if you remove that discretion from the

branch manager, you have no other


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes. And actually, Your Honor,

everybody thinks that the branch manager does not have so much
power in a bank. But the truth is the branch manager is the CEO of
their branch.

cts

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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

is the CEO of their branch.

So theres really so much authority, so much that they can do, so


much that they can approve.
SEN. OSMEA.

What would you have done differently? What

would the bank have done differently?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes. On February 5 when the

funds entered, we should have immediately done an independent


verification independently of what Maia Deguito said. And we should
have seen that the accounts could not justify, the KYC could not justify
the amounts. And then on February 9 when we received the request
from Bangladesh, we should haveUnfortunately, when Maia Deguito
received the request, inubos niya iyong account before she made a
call.
SEN. OSMEA.

What have you done differently knowing what

we know now, seeing what we see now, what changes then are you
prepared to implement?
MS.

FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

independent verification.

Yes.

Its

really

the

We cannot remove the powers and the

discretion that the branch managers have because the success of


every bank depends so much on branch managers. So to that extent,
its really a fine balance.

We need the immediate supervisors

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independent verification.

Thats one thing.

If there were errors in

judgment, we see that now on hindsight. But at that time, we didnt


have the information that we have now.
SEN. OSMEA.

What specifically would you be changing now

or what have you already changed?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Your Honor, may I pass it to

Raul Tan?
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.

Yes.
Sir, were working on centralizing some of the

functions from the branch to the head office. Thats one. Second, we
are
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.

You say, Youre working on.

Yes, sir.

SEN. OSMEA.

So you still havent made decisions, you still

havent implemented it.


MR. R. TAN.

We did some of them already, Your Honor.

couldnt disclose them. But one of them would actually be centralizing


the hold of the accounts as well as the discretion to lift the hold of the
accounts outside of the business unit. So it would be an independent
body which will now determine whether or not the hold can actually
remain or not.

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SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.

The hold

Of the account. So, for example, if we receive a

similar request in the future, what can happen is the head office will
now initiate a hold centrally on the accounts or the account. And then
the verification as to the validity of that remittance into the account
will now be handled separately from the business unit in the
verification on KYC and all the validity of the transactions will be
handled outside of the branch.
SEN. OSMEA.

Okay. Let me put it in laymans terms because

thats pretty complicated for us to understand.

Pag dumating iyong

isang noticelets say, again from the Federal Reserve Bank of New
York or from Bangladesh Bank saying Stop payment, thats a spurious
transaction, you would now be able to move immediately on the same
day that you received the notice.
MR. R. TAN.

Ang mangyayari po is the head office can now

centrally hold the account when we get the request and then do an
independent verification separate from the branch.
SEN. OSMEA.

So you can put a hold on the account. You can

tell the branch manager to hold it.

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MR. R. TAN.

Hindi ho, manggagaling na sa head office.

Si

head office na ang magho-hold in the system, iho-hold niya iyong


account and then they will advise the branch
SEN. OSMEA.

So you can lock up.

You can prevent the

transaction from going through.


MR. R. TAN.

Yes, sir.

SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.

Immediately.
Well, upon verification ng request and

reconciliation in the original remittance instruction.


SEN. OSMEA.

At least, that would bring you several days

faster to being able to act on the transaction.


MR. R. TAN.

The other thing that we have done actually, sir, is

before we put in lower thresholds in terms of crediting the accounts


themselves. So before a certain remittance is credited to an account,
theres a certain threshold above which it will require a clearance from
the particular business units before the funds are actually credited.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.

Clearance from whom?

Well, right now, it goes through the business unit

head.
SEN. OSMEA.

The business unit head.

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MR. R. TAN.

In this case, for example, the branch, it will be

the retail banking group head, Your Honor.


SEN. OSMEA.

All right. In this particular instance, even the

way youre responding to our questions, it seems the compliance


committee of the board comes in much later. In other words, its like
closing the barn door after the horses run away.

The compliance

committee would only be defective in prospective policies or rules that


they set up but they are not geared to immediately respond in cases
like this.
Ms. Macel.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes, Your Honor. Since they

are composed of the business unit heads and theyre not front liners,
they really will come after the fact.

And the decisions of the

committee and its the anti-money laundering committee for us, Your
Honor, would be to determine if this is proper account for an STR, for a
suspicious transactions report.

We also weigh.

We dont want to

make wrongful accusations or to make wrongful filings but, yes, it does


come after the fact.
SEN. OSMEA.

All right. Now, Im curious. The Committee is

curious.

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Ms. Deguito, how many suspicious transactions report have you


filed, say, over the last three years?
Give me a ballpark figure.

I dont expect you to remember

everything.
MS. DEGUITO.

For the last three years, none, sir.

SEN. OSMEA.

None.

There has been no suspicious

transaction in your branch.


MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.

Yes, Your Honor.


Have you looked into the past transactions at

the Jupiter Branch, Ms. Macel?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes, Your Honor, we are

reviewing everything.
SEN. OSMEA.

And will there be any transactions in the past

which would have merited a suspicious transaction report?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

May I just check, Your Honor?

Ill check with the


Once we get some ideas, Your Honor, we will submit them to
you. We dont have a report yet.
SEN. OSMEA.

Yes. Because, obviously, you have to look at

the track record of the branch.

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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes, we are looking at

everything.
SEN. OSMEA.

This might be happening every week or every

month.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes. Your Honor, last year, for

example, the bank filed a total of 246 suspicious transactions reports.


SEN. OSMEA.

But none from Jupiter?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
on me now.

I dont have that information

But we will provide the answer, Your Honor, to the

Committee.
SEN. OSMEA.

Okay.

Then I have another question also

about Jupiter.
How are the forex transactions or the forex deposits or
remittances into Jupiter compared to the other branches, 470 add(?)
branches that RCBC has?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
SEN. OSMEA.

Yes, Your Honor.

Aside from head office, does the Jupiter branch

have the most foreign transactions?


MR. R. TAN.

I wouldnt actually know, Your Honor, but

probably not.

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SEN. OSMEA.

All right. So would you be able to furnish the

Committee with that information?


MR. R. TAN.

Yes, Your Honor, I believe we can.

SEN. OSMEA.

All right. Thank you very much.

Now lets go to Ms. Deguito.


Ms. Deguito, sino po nag-instruct sa inyo uliIll have to repeat
para magkakaroon ng flow iyong question kona i-transfer po lahat ng
mga pera doon sa account ng apat, sa account ni Mr. William Go?
MS. DEGUITO.

Si Mr. Kim Wong po.

SEN. OSMEA.

Mr. Kim Wong.

MS. DEGUITO.

Yes.

SEN. OSMEA.

Mr. Kim, can you answer me if you made that

instruction to Ms. Deguito na ilipat sa account ni William Go?


MR. WONG.

Wala po akong alam diyan.

SEN. OSMEA.

Did you know that William Go even had an

account?
MR. WONG.

Hindi po.

SEN. OSMEA.

Hindi mo ka-partner si William Go in any

business transaction?
MR. WONG.

Hindi po.

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SEN. OSMEA.

Ms. Deguito, why would Mr. Kim Wong, who

has no business connections with Mr. William Go, select Mr. William
Gos account?
MS. DEGUITO.

Sir, honestly, iyon din iyong hindi ko

naiintindihan thats why we had to verify with Mr. Go about it and he


confirmed the opening of the dollar account.
SEN. OSMEA.

He confirmed the opening of the dollar

account. Now let me get that clear.


Was it his signature that opened the dollar account?
MS. DEGUITO.

It was the same signature as that of his peso

account, Your Honor, that was opened 2014 pa.


SEN. OSMEA.

Wait a minute. Answer my question.

He was the one that opened the dollar account?


MS. DEGUITO.

Yes, Your Honor, we confirmed

SEN. OSMEA.

You saw him signed the signature card?

MS. DEGUITO.

No, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA.

So how do you know he was the one?

MS. DEGUITO.

My assistant called him/cmn

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MS. DEGUITO.

...My assistant called him to confirm the

opening of the dollar account.


SEN. OSMEA. Sino ang nagpadala ng signature card kay Mr.
William Go?
MS. DEGUITO.

Sir, Your Honor, as far as we can remember,

we sent a messenger or his messenger came to the branch that I have


toI will try to recall po.
SEN. OSMEA. Pina-messenger mo lang iyong signature card
kay Mr. William Go?
MS. DEGUITO. Parang ganoon po.
SEN. OSMEA.

At isinauli niya.

And the signature on the

foreign account matches the signatureexisting signature in his peso


account.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. His peso account, was it William Go alone or
William Go and/or Centurytex?
MS. DEGUITO.

Its William Go doing business as Centurytex

Trading.
SEN. OSMEA. So, nagbi-BA siya?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.

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SEN. OSMEA. All right. How long has that account existed,
the peso account.
MS. DEGUITO. Since 2014mga third quarter of 2014 po.
SEN. OSMEA. So, less than two years.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Was it an active account?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Is Mr. William Go here?
He didnt turn up today.
All right. Sabihin mo nga sa amin kung bakit sinabi ni Mr. Kim
Wong na hindi ho siya nag-direct na ideposit mo lahat sa account ni
Mr. William Go. Sinasabi mo, siya ho ang nag-utos sa iyo. Who do
you expect the Committee to believe.
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, Im sorry. Ulit po. Sorry po.
SEN. OSMEA. Alam mo iyong may-ari ng account iyong apat.
Theoretically, if they exist, the owner of the four accountswhatever
their name wasshould have been the ones
instructions.

telling you, giving you

Bakit ka tumatanggap ng instructions

kay Mr. Kim

Wong?
MS. DEGUITO.
just

like

any

other,

Sir, I met these account holders through him


si

Mr.

Wong

acted

as

their

authorized

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representative

to inquire balances and instruct me for further

instructions.
SEN. OSMEA. Is that allowed? Ms. Macel, you can get your
pantsuit off if
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Your Honor, it is not allowed.

There are no documents to support what she is saying.

And, in fact,

Your Honor, in her letter to us she categorically told us that it was Mr.
Lagrosas himself who gave her instructions on the transfer of funds
to William Go. So she is contradicting her own written statement to
the bank, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. May we have a copy of that statement, please?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, Your Honor. We will give
it to you.
SEN. OSMEA. Yes.
Ms. Deguito, bakit mo sinabi kay Atty. Fernandez na si Lagrosas
mismo ang nagbigay ng utos sa iyo.
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, during that time it was a show cause memo
that she was mentioning. Noong panahon po na iyon hindi pa po ako
handang magsalita kung sino po iyong mga referral ng account, sino
ba iyong mga tao na nakausap ko, kaya po ganoon ang naging advice
ng abogado.

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SEN. OSMEA.

Ms. Fernandez, will you read the particular

sentence in her letter to you that deals with this?


MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

couple of hours after Mr.

Lagrosas made the balance inquiry, pre-signed forms were sent to the
branch for the withdrawal and transfer
accompanied with a note with

of funds.

The forms were

instructions as to the amounts to be

withdrawn and transferred as well as the accounts where the funds


would be deposited. I reviewed the forms and found that there was
instruction to deposit the funds to the account of Centurytex, an
account of the

branch since 2014 owned by Mr. William Go. Upon

seeing this, I was initially confused because I was not aware of any
connection between the holders of the subject
Centurytex did not

have a US dollar account.

William Go to make

accounts and

Hence,

I called Mr.

verification as to the transaction.

I was

immediately instructed to set up a dollar account for Centurytex and


follow the instructions on the forms.
And then, Your Honors, she discusses in detail that she received
instructions from William Go to transact the funds with Philrem as he
needed to remit the Philippine peso equivalent. So, it goes on, Your
Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. So, ang pumili sa Philrem si William Go?

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MS. DEGUITO.

Your Honor, iyong involvement po ni Mr. Go

doon sa whole transaction, hindi ko po siya ganoon kasigurado but I


am just certain that it is his account, it is his dollar account. Kung
pinagamit niya po voluntarily iyong account niya for whatever
SEN. OSMEA. Teka muna, teka muna. I am limiting myself to
the recent statement of Atty. Fernandez na sa sulat mo sa kanya o sa
head office, it was Mr. William Go that instructed you. Nowhat was
that?It was Mr. Lagrosas.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

First, Mr. Lagrosas and then

Mr. Go. So, those were the two people she spoke with, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. So, it was Mr. Lagrosas who instructed you to
transfer the funds to Mr. Go.
MS. DEGUITO.
memo.

Sir, I acknowledge that

reply to show cause

As I told you a while ago, during the time that I answered

the show cause I wasnt ready to name the personalities behind those
referred accounts.
SEN. OSMEA.

It doesnt

matter.

Ah, you did not want to

name Mr. Kim Wong, that is what you are saying, so you would lie and
say it was Mr. Lagrosas who gave you the order, ganoon ba?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.

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SEN. OSMEA. We have been holding hearings here for about


four weeks na, ano? Has Mr. Lagrosas or the others ever contacted
you?
MS. DEGUITO. Im sorry.
SEN. OSMEA.

Iyong mga may-ari ng account, ng dollar

account, kausap mo ba sila?


MS. DEGUITO. Hindi po. The only time that I met them, that
was the first and last, noong nakausap ko po sila at nagpakilala sila
sa akin sa Midas, that is the only time po.
SEN. OSMEA. So, pag may tumawag po sa iyo at sasabihin
po niya, Ako po si Lagrosas, i-transfer mo nga iyong $26 million sa
account ko doon sa account ni Mr. William Go, tatanggapin mo iyong
order na ganoon?
MS. DEGUITO. Hindi po, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.

So, you

are now saying that it was not Mr.

Lagrosas who gave you orders to transfer it to the account of


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
Yes, Your Honor, it was really Mr. Wong who instructed me.
SEN. OSMEA. Not Mr. Lagrosas.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. So, you were lying to your own head office.

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MS. DEGUITO. Sir, as I said, during that time


SEN. OSMEA. No. Do not give us the excuse for lying. You
were not telling the truth.
MS. DEGUITO. If you will consider that lying, sir, yes I would
acknowledge.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Ngayon, sino ang pumili ng Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. I was asked by Mr. Wong if I could referiyon
nga po, a remitting company to handle.
SEN. OSMEA.

He asked you to refer him to a remittance

company.
MS. DEGUITO. If I could recommend a remitting company kasi
nga there will be transfers to
SEN. OSMEA.

Inaamin mo ikaw

ang nag-recommend sa

Philrem.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.

Okay.

Have you ever in the past had

any

transaction of this amount with Philrem or any other remittance


company, $81 million more or less?
MS. DEGUITO. None, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.

Wala.

Paano mo alam na may kaya ang

Philrem to convert that amount?

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MS. DEGUITO.

Alam ko po kasi that they transact with the

treasury of the bank.


SEN. OSMEA.

Bakit hindi

mo ibinigay sa treasury ng bank

mo?
MS. DEGUITO. Ang concern po kasi, hindi ba, iyong bank rate
versus the rate of Philrem is far better. So, magkaiba po siya ng rate.
SEN. OSMEA. Philrem changed $61 million with RCBC. How
can Philrems rate be better then?
MS. DEGUITO. Iyon po kasi ang pagkakaalam ko. At saka po
kaya ko rin

ni-recommend kasi nga I know that they

know each

other. So, kung may mga instructions po


SEN. OSMEA. Who knows each other? Philrem and RCBC?
MS. DEGUITO. Po?
SEN. OSMEA. Philrem and RCBC. Who knows each other?
MS. DEGUITO. Hindo po. Si Mr. Wong at saka si Mr. Bautista.
SEN. OSMEA.

Mr. Wong, how long have you known Mr.

Bautista?
MR. WONG. Medyo matagal na ho pero wala ho kami negosyo.
SEN. OSMEA. Not even
MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam, sir, iyong Philrem.
SEN. OSMEA. Hindi mo alam na

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MR. WONG. Iyong kumpanyang Philrem kanya po.


SEN. OSMEA. So, you only know him as a friend.
MR. WONG. Friend lang ho. Pagka gumagawa ng kotse, iyong
sira, doon sa talyer ho.
SEN. OSMEA. Mr. Concon Bautista, is that correct that youve
never had any business transaction with Mr. Kim Wong before this
particular instance?
MR. BAUTISTA.

Yes, Your Honor.

No business

with Mr.

Wong. We were introduced by a car shop owner.


SEN. OSMEA. By Jason Go?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. Nanji (?) in auto sport.
SEN. OSMEA. I am not familiar.
Ms. Deguito, ang sinabi mo tinanong

ni Mr. Kim Wong sa iyo,

Sino bang puwedeng mag-handle nito? At sumagot ka, Philrem.


MS. DEGUITO.

Opo.

Tapos sinabi ko po

si Michael

Bautista.../admasicap

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MS. DEGUITO. si Michael Bautista, si Concon, para po pwede


silang mag-usap nang diretso.

Hindi niya siguro alam iyong Philrem

orPero kilala niya si Concon so I had to tell him that na its Concons
business.
SEN OSMEA.

At pumayag ka doon, sinabi niya sa iyo, Mr.

Kim Wong? Mr. Kim Wong, iyong sinabi ni Ms. Deguito, Gamitin natin
ang Philrem, anong sinabi mo?
MR. WONG. Hindi po kami nagkausap noon, paano ko ho siya
makilala? Dumating na ho siya sa Solaire, sabi niya, Ako si Concon,
sabi niya, ng Philrem. Ano bang Philrem? Tinanong ho sa akin ng
treasury ng Solaire, Philrem. Hindi ko ho alam.
SEN OSMEA.

So anong arrangement mo naman kay Ms.

Deguito?
MR. WONG.

Wala po kasi ang alam ko through bank lang po

iyon. Through bank to bank. Wala po kaming arrangement, tanong


ninyo ho sa kanya.
SEN OSMEA.

Teka muna.

MR. WONG. Na-refer lang po ako.


SEN OSMEA.

Naka-deliver si Concon sa iyo doon sa Solaire,

hindi ba? Inamin ninyo naman iyon.

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MR. WONG. Opo, opo.


SEN OSMEA.

Okay.

MR. WONG. Pero wala ho kaming pinag-usapan kung paano


Wala po, tanong ninyo.
SEN OSMEA.

Hindi ka ba nagulat may darating na

magdadala ng ganoong kalaking halaga?


MR. WONG. Kasi po sabi po niya darating ho siya para i-explain
kung paano.
SEN OSMEA.

Explain ng ano?

MR. WONG. Iyong transaction po para


SEN OSMEA.

Nandiyan na iyong pera, hindi ba? Dala-dala

niya iyong pera, hindi ba?


MR. WONG. Opo, opo.
SEN OSMEA.

At no time did he ever visit you without

bringing some cash?


MR. WONG. Oho.
SEN OSMEA.

So who gave him the instructions to bring the

cash to you and you must have accepted


MR. WONG.

Si Gao po at saka si Ding na sinabi magdala ng

cash

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SEN OSMEA.
MR. WONG.

Sino?
Iyong si Ding ho at saka si Gao.

Si Gao ang

nagsabi
SEN OSMEA.

Hindi naman nila kilala si Gao ah.

MR. WONG. Oo nga. Nandoon po din sila nung dumating ho


sila.
SEN OSMEA.

Hindi.

MR. WONG. Ano po?


SEN OSMEA. Ang question ko is, who told Ms. Deguito to tell
Concon to bring the money to you at Solaire? Eh nakaantay ka doon
sa Solaire so ini-expect mo na may magde-deliver ng pera doon sa
Solaire sa inyo, hindi ba? One hundred, one hundred.
MR. WONG. Si Maia po.
SEN OSMEA.
MR. WONG.

Eighty plus.

Eighty plus 20 plus iyong may de-deliver pa po.

Actually 200 hinihingi. Sabi ho ni Maia darating ho siya ng Solaire po.


SEN OSMEA.

Siya mismo?

MR. WONG. Opo, opo.


SEN OSMEA.

Okay. Iyong pagdating ni Concon, sinabi rin ni

Maia sa iyo darating si Concon sa Solaire?

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MR. WONG.

Hindi po.

Nakita ko lang ho siya doon.

Tanong

ninyo sa kanya.
SEN

OSMEA.

Concon,

Mr.

Bautista,

who

made

the

arrangements for you to make the drop at Solaire?


MR. BAUTISTA. Sir
SEN OSMEA.

He did.

MS. BAUTISTA.

SirNo, yeah, I was the one who was in

contact with Maia to bring the funds there thats why it was my
delivery in Solaire.

We were supposed to have dinner with Concon

thats why he went there.


SEN OSMEA.

All right.

MS. BAUTISTA. And then we saw each other there.


SEN OSMEA.

No. The Committee is trying to find out who

gave instructions to you to deliver it to Mr. Kim Wong at Solaire? Maia?


MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, yes, Your Honor, Weikang Xu. To deliver
to Weikang Xu.
SEN OSMEA.

You know, thats the biggest ghost in this

whole affair. We dont know where he is. We have no record of his


being in the country and everybody uses him as an excuse. Even the
so-called missing $18 million, he is being used as the excuse that it

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was delivered to him. But we want to know--Mr. Kim Wong must have
known that you were coming to deliver the cash so, therefore, Ms.
Deguito told Kim Wong that you were going to deliver the cash to Kim
Wong at Solaire. Is that correct, Ms. Deguito?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, Im sorry.
SEN OSMEA.

Iyong pagmiting ni Ms. Bautista at ni Kim

Wong doon po sa Solaire, you were the one who made that
arrangement obviously?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, hindi po.
SEN OSMEA.

Hindi nga sila magkakilala.

Who made that

arrangement?
MS. DEGUITO. Magkakilala po sila, hindi lang po siguro alam
ni Sir
SEN OSMEA.

Pero you are in control of the money, you are

in control of the account, hindi ba?


MS. DEGUITO. Sir, what I instructed Philrem noong February 5,
iyon nga ho parang i-remit sa Bloomberry and Eastern Hawaii.
SEN OSMEA.

Did you instruct Philrem, whoever it is, Mr. or

Ms. Baustista, to meet Kim Wong at Solaire


MS. DEGUITO. Sir, wala po.

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SEN OSMEA.
instruct sa kanya.

Sinasabi nga ni Ms. Bautista na kayo ho nag-

Bakit niya gagawin iyon

pag walang instruction

galing sa iyo?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, hindi ko po alam, pero wala po kasi akong
instruction na ganoon.
SEN OSMEA.

Well, as you know, that stretches the

imagination. Ikaw mismo nag-admit na ikaw nag-direct ng funds


papunta doon sa account ni William Go. You admitted now that you
asked Mr. Kim Wong, or Kim Wong asked you for the name of a
remittance company, ikaw nag-identify ng Philrem, tama? Tapos iyong
pag-deliver ngayon ng funds ng Philrem kay Kim Wong, you dont
know anything about it? That stands the imagination. Anong gagawin
ng Philrem sa pera?

Sinabi mo ba sa Philrem, Heto, may $81 million

diyan sa inyo, i-convert mo nga sa pesos?

So what were your

instructions? To whom were they supposed to deliver the $81 million


or its equivalent in pesos?
MS. DEGUITO.

Sir, iyan lang po kasi talaga iyong instruction

SEN OSMEA.

Ano iyong instruction mo? Anong gagawin sa

ko

pera?

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MS. DEGUITO.

Iyong sa BloomberryAng instruction po na

gagawin sa pera is just to convert everything to peso and I was


expecting that peso to come back to the branch kasi iyon po iyong
napag-usapan talaga.
SEN OSMEA.

And then after it is converted into cash

MS. DEGUITO.

Ang instruction lang po talaga na alam kong

lalabas from the branch out of the $81 million are those of the
Bloomberry and Eastern Hawaii. And everything else, ang instruction
na was just to convert everything to peso and I was just waiting for
that peso to come back to the branch.
SEN OSMEA.

All right.

So ito iyong pera na pinadala sa

Bloomberry telegraphic transfer?


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN OSMEA.

Telegraphic transfer but not from your branch,

hindi ba?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN OSMEA.

Hindi po.
From the bank branch of Philrem doon po sa

was that Unimart?


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.

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SEN OSMEA.

All right.

So sumunod naman ang Philrem

doon? Tapos, also about a billion pesos by telegraphic transfer to the


account of Mr. Kim Wong under the name Eastern Hawaii, correct?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN OSMEA.

All right. So may balance pa, may $18 million,

may P400 million. Anong instructions mo doon, anong gagawin sa $18


million?
MS. DEGUITO.

Iyong first transaction po was $14.2 or $14.7

million lang po. Iyon lang po iyong na-transact ng February 5. Tapos


po noong February 9, iyon lang po, pina-transfer lang siya lahat kay
Philrem and I was just waiting for the peso value.
SEN OSMEA.

Ms. Deguito, Im just asking you what were

yourYour first instructions, you carried out, telegraphic transfer to


Bloomberry, hindi ba?
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN OSMEA.

Sinunod naman ng Philrem, hindi ba?

MS. DEGUITO. Opo.


SEN OSMEA.

Okay.

Second instruction to Eastern Hawaii

about a billion pesos, hindi ba?


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.

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SEN OSMEA.

All right. Eh iyong balance, tinatanong ko po

sa inyo ano hong instructions na gawin mo doon sa balance


MS. DEGUITO. Iyon nga po, iyong instruction is to transfer to
them, have them convert it to peso and then return the peso funds to
Jupiter branch which did not happen.
SEN OSMEA.

Philrem was supposed to redeposit the peso

with the Jupiter branch?


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN OSMEA.
MS. BAUTISTA.

Philrem, would you like to respond to that?


Sir, I dont know under whose name will we

deposit it back?
SEN OSMEA.

Under whose name, Ms. Deguito?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, the five accounts has a peso account.


SEN OSMEA.
MS. DEGUITO.

Peso account ni Wiliam Go?


Iyong limang accounts po na may dollar

mayroon din silang pesos.

Mayroon silang peso account that was

opened December.
SEN OSMEA.

Sino po, iyong Lagrosas and Company?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, iyong limang accounts po.


SEN OSMEA.

Ah, mayroon pa rin silang peso account?

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MS. DEGUITO. Opo.


SEN OSMEA.

Sinong nag-open noon?

MS. DEGUITO. Kami po sa branch.


SEN OSMEA.

So there are 10 accounts, two each?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.


SEN OSMEA.

Can you confirm that?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.

Yes, Your Honor, and actually

in her reply she said on December 8, 2015, I again received the call
from Mr. Lagrosas requesting me to set-up additional peso accounts
for all of them.
SEN OSMEA.

Where is Mr. Lagrosas?

MS. DEGUITO.

Sir, when she speaks of Mr. Lagrosas, shes

speaking of Mr. Kim Wong.


SEN OSMEA.

Kim, ang dami mo palang pangalan/cfd

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SEN. OSMEA. Kim, ang dami mo palang pangalan. Ikaw ba?


MR. WONG.

Iyung peso account po, dahil itong si Gao may

utang sa akin so nag-usap kami ni Maia, December 8 sa Solaire na


buksan iyong peso account. Kaharap ho siya.
SEN. OSMEA. So alam po ninyo na nagbukas ng peso account
rin si Ms. Deguito?
MR. WONG. Pinapunta ko po si Maia, December 8, 2015 sa
Solaire. Si Gao, ako, siya at saka mayroon pa siyang isang kasama,
medyo malayo po, na mayroon na siyang peso ibabayad na sa akin.
So sabi ni Gao, ibuksan siya ng peso kaya nabukas po iyung peso.
SEN. OSMEA.

Alam ba ni Gao na mayroon siyang mga

account dito in the name of


MR. WONG. Opo, siya po angtatlo kaming nag-uusap. Sabi
ho ni Gao, Paano mo puwede ipagkatiwala iyong pesos baka nakawin
niya iyan.
Sabi ko, Hindi naman siguro. Kasi 45 million ang utang ho niya
sa akin.
SEN. OSMEA.

So, Ms. Deguito, you confirm that Mr. Kim

Wong also instructed you to open peso account?

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MS. DEGUITO. Opo, iyun din naman po iyong sabi niya. As per
instruction iyung Chinese na iyon, ise-set up siya ng pesos accounts,
iyong mga limang ibinigay din sa aking noong una.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Now, was this a savings account?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir, savings account.
SEN. OSMEA. So who held the passbooks?
MS. DEGUITO. I delivered it to Solaire noong December din po.
SEN. OSMEA. You delivered it to Mr. Kim Wong?
MS. DEGUITO.

Opo. Binigay ko. Nandoon po iyungHindi ko

po kasi kilala iyong mga Chinese.


SEN. OSMEA.

Just answer a question.

Did you deliver the

passbooks to Mr. Kim Wong?


MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir, and he gave it to the Chineseiyong
kasama niya po.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Now, lets look for the ghost. Who
here has ever met Weikang Xu?

Have you met Weikang Xu, Ms.

Bautista?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, when I delivered in Solaire.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. He was with Mr.?
MS. BAUTISTA. Mr. Kim Wong and other Chinese
SEN. OSMEA. Totoo ba iyan, Mr. Kim Wong?

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MR. WONG. Hindi po.


SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Anong katotohanan?
MR. WONG.

Noong dumating ho iyong pera, ang sabi nila sa

akin, kailangan may recipient ho. Iyung 80 million plus 20 million, may
recipient ho. So sabi ko kay Gao, Gao, sino ba ang player mo? Tapos
si Ding, sabi niya, Sige, ibigay mo na sa akin iyong cash hundred
million first, i-deliver dito raw sa Midas.

So sabi ni Gao, Kunin ko

iyung isang pera ko sandali


Ito si Ding, ito iyung medyo maliit na player pang-hundred
milyon lang po. So iyong picture ho nasa cellphone, ipinakita ko lang
po sa kanya. So piniktyuran (picture) niya.
SEN. OSMEA.

Mayroon ka bang picture ni Weikang Xu?

MR. WONG. Wiekang Xu, mayroon po.


SEN. OSMEA.

Hindi, hindi iyong passport pero mayroon na

akong kopya noon.


MR. WONG. Mayroon po akong original na passport ni Weikang
Xu.
SEN. OSMEA. Sa cellphone mo, mayroon ka bang picture ni
Weikang Xu?
MR. WONG. Nandoon ho sa isang phone ko, mayroon po.
SEN. OSMEA. In the next hearing, would you like to bring it

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MR. WONG. Opo.


SEN. OSMEA. para makita kasi everybody is talking about
Weikang Xu pero walang record ang Immigration na pumasok siya into
the country this year.
Sigurado ka na nandito siya noon, in February and March?
MR. WONG. Ewan ko pero
SEN. OSMEA.

Bakit pumayag si Mr. Gao na ibigay kay

Weikang Xu iyung $18 million?


MR. WONG. Hindi. Kasi ganito kami sa junket. Kunwari si Gao
ang head, so marami siyang player.
puwedeng ilagay rito.

Puwede niya muna ilagay dito,

Kumbaga siya iyung recipient langparang si

Ding Zhise naglaro sa Solaire, siya ang head tapos puwede ibigay
maski kanino iyung pera. Pero siya po iyung nagko-command, iyung
pera po.
SEN. OSMEA. So malaking player itong si Weikang Xu.
MR. WONG. Hindi po. Natalo ho siya sa Midasmay record ho
sa Midas. Natalo yata siya ng mga 70 million.
SEN. OSMEA. Pesos, dollars?
MR. WONG. Pesos po. May record ho sa amin iyung April, May,
ganoon po, sa Midas po.

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SEN. OSMEA. Yeah, but 70 million, thats less than $2 million.


You were talking about 18 million dollars.
Bakit ibibigay ni Gao kay Weikang Xu?
MR. WONG.

Kasi po siya iyong parang may utang ba, baka

makabawi pa. Pero puwede niyang hindi ibigay kumbaga inilagay lang
po sa pangalan niya po.
SEN. OSMEA. You know, the Committee finds a lot of holes in
all your testimonies and so we will have to continue this. Well
suspend. Well continue this.
By the way, we asked Ms. Salud Bautista to identify your chief
accountant and you still have not identified and the Committee
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, Im so sorry, but my accountant
already resigned.
Im the president of the company and my husband and I
SEN. OSMEA. If we dont have the name of your accountant,
Im going to recommend that the Committee cite you for contempt.
You will receive a letter showing cause why you should not be cited for
contempt. The Committee has the power to force that information.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, we are the owners of the company and we
are accountable for the actions that our company has done.

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SEN. OSMEA.

We want the name of your accountant.

Of

course, youve got a top-notch lawyer helping you there so you can
ask him. Hell be here to protect your interest but the Committee will
be sending you a show cause order why you should not be cited for
contempt. And at the next hearing, if youd still dont have the name,
bring your overnight bag already.
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Compaero.
Senator Enrile, would you like to propound anymore questions?
No more.
By the way, it is the birthday of our Chairman, Senator
Guingona, so he said he would like to suspend this hearing to give you
all a chance to go up to his office and have lunch with him. [Laughter]
Of course, he doesnt expect you. But lets all surprise him and
ask him for some free food.
Thank you all for coming and we will let you know when the next
hearing will be called to order but you have been placed on record. All
right.
Thank you.

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[THE HEARING WAS SUSPENDED AT 2:35 P.M.]

/mhb

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