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* 1969 Julius Caesar Costume Designs
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1947 48 Famous Americans
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1957-1958 Johnny Reb
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1961 The War Between The States
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1972 The Forever People Ill See You In Yesterday!
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1976 Captain Americas Bicentennial Battles
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* Kirbys Real Folks <http://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/realfolks/>
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1942 Prevue of Peril
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1956 Guys and Dolls
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1960 Old Ideas For New Panel Shows
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1961 The Lone Voyager

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1962 The End Of The Fantastic Four!
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1967 46 Hours And 36 Minutes In The Life Of Jack Ruby
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tes-in-the-life-of-jack-ruby/>
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1975 The Quarterback As A Corporation
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1976 Paul McCartney And Wings
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1976 The Madbomb The Screamer In The Brain!
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1982 Goozlebobber
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1982 Terror By Telephone
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Interviews
by Michael Hill <http://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/author/mikeh/>
Posted 16 June 2015
<http://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2015/06/16/interviews/> in
According To Kirby
<http://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/category/according-to-kirby/>.
/Twenty-five years after Jack Kirbys interview conducted by Gary Groth
was published in The Comics Journal #134
<http://www.tcj.com/jack-kirby-interview/>, many still question Kirbys
veracity. Some Kirby detractors call the interview telling, while even
some Kirby proponents consider it unfortunate. Michael Hill collected
examples from the entire body of Kirbys interview record to determine
the validity of such accusations. He then sent us his compilation, as
well as a longer article that will soon be serialized, for consideration
for The Kirby Effect, and we publish it with comments disabled
<http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments>
Rand./

Interview snippets of Jack Kirby and others excerpted in large part from
/The Comics Journal, The Jack Kirby Collector/ and the Kirby Museum
site, categorized and labeled by year. Its important to have the
ability to see that things Kirby said in the /TCJ/ interview were
nothing new.
Theyd take it away from me.
*1970 [Hamilton]^1 <#1>*
BRUCE HAMILTON: Do you care to discuss your main reasons for switching
to DC?
JACK KIRBY: I dont mind at all. I can only say that DC gave me my own
editing affairs, and if I have an idea I can take credit for it. I dont
have the feeling of repression that I had at Marvel. I dont say I
wasnt comfortable at Marvel, but it had its frustrating moments and
there was nothing I could do about it. When I got the opportunity to
transfer to DC, I took it. At DC Im given the privilege of being
associated with my own ideas. If I did come up with an idea at Marvel,
theyd take it away from me and I lost all association with it. I was
never given credit for the writing which I did. Most of the writing at
Marvel is done by the artist from the script.
As things went on, I began to work at
the office. I developed all the stuff
to come up with new ideas to help the
frustration of having to come up with
taken from me.

home and I no longer came up to

at home and just sent it in. I had
strip sell. I was faced with the
new ideas and then having them

*1971 [Skelly]^2 <#2>*

TCJ: What do you think the advantages are over at National?
KIRBY: The advantages? Well, I have a lot more leeway. I can think
things out, do them my way and know I get credit for the things I do.
There were times at Marvel when I couldnt say anything because it would
be taken away from me and put in another context, and it would be lost
all my connection with it would be severed. For instance, I created the
Silver Surfer, Galactus and an army of other characters, and now my
connection with them is lost.
TCJ: That sounds like a problem.
KIRBY: You get to feel like a ghost. Youre writing commercials for
somebody and Its a strange feeling, but I experienced it and I didnt
like it much.
TCJ: Things are probably bad enough in the comics field as far as
recognition goes.
KIRBY: Well, recognition comes to very few people. It wasnt recognition
so much you just couldnt take the character anywhere. You could
devote your time to a character, put a lot of insight into it, help it
evolve and then lose all connection with it. Its kind of an eerie
thing; I cant describe it. You just have to experience that
relationship to understand it.

*1982 [Zimmerman]^3 <#3>*

Kirbys contributions to Marvel Comics are legendary. When asked what he
received in return, he says, A lot of ingratitude. It hasnt left me
bitter, its just that it shouldnt work out that way.
Jack Kirby
saved Marvels ass
*1989 [Groth]^4 <#4>*
KIRBY: Marvel was on its ass, literally, and when I came around, they
were practically hauling out the furniture. They were literally moving
out the furniture. They were beginning to move, and Stan Lee was sitting
there crying. I told them to hold everything, and I pledged that I would
give them the kind of books that would up their sales and keep them in
business, and that was my big mistake.
*1987 [Schwartz]^5 <#5>*
JACK: The only thing I knew best was comics and I went back to Marvel
and Marvel was in very poor straitsall comics were in poor straitsand
boy I can tell you, when I went into Marvel they were cryingand Stanley
was going into the publisher and lock up that very afternoon and I
convinced him not to do it. And of course I didnt change things in one
day; but I knew that in a couple of months I could do it.
*1986 [Pitts]^6 <#6>*
KIRBY: My version is simple: I saved Marvels ass. When I came up to
Marvel, it was closing that same afternoon, Stan Lee had his head on the
desk and was crying. It all looked very dramatic to me, but I needed the
job. I was a guy with a wife and three kids and a house, and I wanted to
keep it. And so, having no rapport with Martin Goodman, who was the
publisher Stan Lee was his cousin I told Stan Lee that we could keep
the place going. And I told him to try to tell Martin to keep it going,
because we could possibly revive it.
*1985 [Van Hise]^7 <#7>*
When I came up to Marvel in the late Fifties, they were just about to
close up, that very afternoon! I told them not to do it. Marvel is a
case of survival. I guaranteed them that Id sell their magazines, and I
did. I did the monster stories or whatever they had and they began to
liven up a bit.
*1982 [Zimmerman]^8 <#8>*
My business with Joe was gone. I did a few things for /Classics
Illustrated /which drove me crazy. I wanted a little stability, and I
needed the work. Marvel seemed to be the place, and comics seemed to be
the only thing I was really good at. And I already had responsibilities;
I was a father, I owned property, I had to work.
Marvel was going to close, Kirby recalls. When I broke up with Joe,
comics everywhere were taking a beating. The ones with capital hung on.
Martin Goodman [publisher of Marvel] had slick paper magazines, like

/Swank /and the rest. It was just as easy for Martin to say, Oh, what
the hell. Why do comics at all? And he was about toStan Lee told me
so. In fact, it looked like they were going to close the afternoon that
I came up. But Goodman gave Marvel another chance.
*1982 [Eisner]^9 <#9>*
KIRBY: Okay, I came back to Marvel there. It was a sad day. I came back
the afternoon they were going to close up. Stan Lee was already the
editor there and things were in a bad way. I remember telling him not to
close because I had some ideas. What had been done before, I felt, could
be done again. I think it was the time when I really began to grow. I
was married. I was a man with three children, obligations.
*1989 [Groth]^10 <#10>*
GROTH: So it was to a large extent circumstance that compelled you to
produce
KIRBY: Circumstances forced me to do it. They forced me.
GROTH: Was there a sense of excitement during that period when Marvel
was starting to take off?
KIRBY: No, there wasnt a sense of excitement. It was a horrible, morbid
atmosphere. If you can find excitement in that kind of atmosphere the
excitement of fear. The excitement of, What to do next? The excitement
of whats out there. And thats the excitement that always existed in
the field. What am I going to do now that Im not doing anything more
for this publisher? I can go to another publisher. I have to make a living.
GROTH: Did you approach Marvel or
KIRBY: It came about very simply. I came in [to the Marvel offices] and
they were moving out the furniture, they were taking desks out and I
needed the work! I had a family and a house and all of a sudden Marvel
is coming apart. Stan Lee is sitting on a chair crying. He didnt know
what to do, hes sitting in a chair crying he was just still out of his
adolescence. I told him to stop crying. I says. Go in to Martin and
tell him to stop moving the furniture out, and Ill see that the books
make money.
Drew Friedman: ^11 <#11> My dad (Bruce Jay Freidman) actually worked
at Magazine Management, which was the company that owned Marvel
Comics in the fifties and sixties, so he knew Stan Lee pretty well.
He knew him before the superhero revival in the early sixties, when
Stan Lee had one office, one secretary and that was it. The story
was that Martin Goodman who ran the company was trying to phase him
out because the comics werent selling too well.
Dick Ayers: ^12 <#12> I worked right through. Things had started
getting really bad, I guess, in 1958. And still Stan kept me
working. And one day, when I went in, he looked at me and he said,
Gee whiz, my uncle goes by and he doesnt even say hello to me. He
meant Martin Goodman. And he proceeds to tell me, You know, its
like a ship sinking and were the rats. And weve got to get off.
So he told me, Try to find something else.
Larry Lieber: ^13 <#13> Back then Marvel was Timely Comics. At the
time I worked there, Magazine Management was big when the comics

were big it was small when the comics were small. At one time in
the late 50s it was just an alcove, with one window, and Stan was
doing all the corrections himself; he had no assistants.
Jim Vadeboncouer: ^14 <#14> It wasnt until December 1958/January
1959 that Lee gathered around him the core of what was to be Marvel
Comics: Kirby, Ditko, Heck, Ayers, and Reinman. This lends credence
to Kirbys claim to have found Lee despondent on his desk, ready to
throw in the towel. If the inventory was depleted and sales were
down and growth was restricted, what was a man to do but give it all up?
Flo Steinberg: ^15 <#15> Well, it was March of 63 And I went up
and talked to this man, Stan Lee. And the interview was in this
teeny little cubbyhole of an office And the whole Magazine
Management company was in one big floor [of 625 Madison Avenue] with
partitions set up. And Marvel Comics was the teeniest little office
on the floor. There was Stan and his desk, then another small desk.
Michael Vassallo: ^16 <#16> Jacks recollection of seeing Stan
crying shouldnt be dismissed out of hand. When I constructed a
timeline of job numbers, I was shocked to find that Joe Maneelys
last story and Jacks first story in Strange Worlds #1 (I
Discovered the Secret of the Flying Saucers!) were only a few
digits apart. I immediately asked Dick Ayers to check his work
records on an equally close western he did and his work records
corroborated that all these stories were commissioned within one or
two days of Joe Maneelys death on June 8th 1958! Immediately it
made possible sense to me that if Jack had in fact arrived looking
for work on the following Monday, June 10th he would have found Stan
Lee in his office inconsolable, and predicting the soon demise of
Goodmans already tenuous line of 8 titles a month.
Whatever anyone may want to say about Stan, he was very close to
Maneely, had worked with him since late 1949, and depended on him to
launch many/most of the Atlas character features in the western, war
comics throughout the 1950s. He was the fastest artist he had (Jack
Kirby fast, possibly faster, by all accounts) and after the
implosion he was drawing most of the covers and handling the Two-Gun
Kid feature. There just wasnt enough new material to keep him busy
so he was also simultaneously at DC and also Charlton. But even more
importantly for Stan, he was a partner on their Mrs. Lyons Cubs
newspaper syndicated feature, both hoping to catch lightning in a
bottle and leave the dregs of the comic book industry.
So taking all of that together, the timing and the relationship, it
is very likely Jack did find Stan, not necessarily bawling his
eyes out, but very upset that morning when he went in looking for work.
while doing monster books, persuaded Marvel to try superheroes
*1989 [Groth]^17 <#17>*
GROTH: Did you enjoy doing those?
KIRBY: I always enjoyed doing monster books. Monster books gave me the
opportunity to draw things out of the ordinary. Monster books were a
challenge what kind of monster would fascinate people? I couldnt draw
anything that was too outlandish or too horrible. I never did that. What
I did draw was something intriguing. There was something about this

monster that you could live with. If you saw him you wouldnt faint dead
away. There was nothing disgusting in his demeanor. There was nothing
about him that repelled you. My monsters were lovable monsters.
[Laughter.] I gave them names some were evil and some were good. They
made sales, and thats always been my prime object in comics. I had to
make sales in order to keep myself working. And so I put all the
ingredients in that would pull in sales. Its always been that way.
*1982 [Eisner]^18 <#18>*
EISNER: So the ideas for superheroes at Marvel and DC were ideas cooked
up by you and Stan.
KIRBY: No. That was cooked up by /me/!
EISNER: So you did the first one all by yourself, then.
KIRBY: Oh, yes. /Spider-Man/ wasnt the first one I did. I began to do
monster books. The kind of books Goodman wanted. I had to fight for the
superheroes. In other words, I was at the stage now where I had to fight
for those things and I did. I had to regenerate the entire line. I felt
that there was nobody there that was qualified to do it. So I began to
do it. Stan Lee was my vehicle to do it. He was my bridge to Martin
[Goodman].
*1975 [Sherman]^19 <#19>*
SHERMAN: At this time, you also started again at Marvel.
KIRBY: Right. I was given monsters, so I did them. I would much rather
have been drawing /Rawhide Kid/. But I did the monsters we had Grottu
and Kurrgo and It it was a challenge to try to do something/anything/
with such ridiculous characters. But these were, in a way, the
forefathers of the Marvel super-heroes. We had a Thing, we had a Hulk
and we tried to do them in a more exciting way.
*Hebert [1969]^20 <#20>*
KIRBY: I tried to work it out with Stan [Lee], to hint about
superheroes. There were a few still going but they didnt have the big
audience they had. There was a thing I was involved in, /The Fly/, which
got a reaction and because of that I told Stan that there might be a
hope for superheroes. Why dont we try Captain America again? I kept
harping on it and Marvel was quiet in those days, like every other
office, and then things began to pick up and gain momentum.
wrote and penciled the pages he turned in to Stan Lee
*Early 1990s [Danzig/Thibodeaux]^21 <#21>*
GLENN: A lot of people dont know that you actually scripted a lot of
these stories most of them. Even the Marvel stuff.
JACK: I did.
*1985 [Van Hise]^22 <#22>*
I was a penciller and a storyteller, and I insisted on doing my own
writing. I always wrote my own story no matter what it was. Nobody ever

wrote a story for me. I created my own characters. I always did that.
That was the whole point of comics for me. I created my own concepts and
I enjoyed doing that. Thats how I created the Silver Surfer.
*1982 [Eisner]^23 <#23>*
EISNER: In the stuff you worked on with Stan, was he writing at the time?
KIRBY: No. Stan Lee was not writing. I was doing the writing. It all
came from my basement and I can tell you that if I ever began to
intellectualize, it was then All right. Thats unimportant. All right,
Ill tell you from a professional point of view. I was writing them. I
was drawing them.
EISNER: But you do not necessarily subscribe to the idea of someone
else, regardless of who it is, putting balloons in on a completely
penciled page. I have a prejudice on it but I want to get your opinion.
KIRBY: My opinion is this: Stan Lee wrote the credits. I never wrote the
credits.
*1982 [Zimmerman]^24 <#24>*
In his /Bring on the Bad Guys, Origins of Marvel Comics Villains, /Stan
Lee explains the genesis of the group: Much as I hate to admit it, I
didnt produce our little Marvel Masterpieces all by myself. No, mine
was the task of originating the basic concept, and then writing the
script However, Ive long been privileged to collaborate with some of
the most talented artists of all, artists who would take my rough-hewn
plots and refine them into the illustrated stories Heading the list of
such artists is Jolly Jack Kirby.
Kirby remembers it somewhat differently. I wrote them all, he states
flatly. But what about all those Smilin Stan and Jolly Jack credit
boxes? Kirby responds diplomatically. Well, I never wrote the credits.
Lets put it that way, all right? I would never call myself Jolly
Jack. I would never say the books were written by Lee.
*1990 [/Hour 25/]^25 <#25>*
Caller: Hi, yeah, I was reading Jack Kirby teamed up with Stan Lee with
Marvel Comics in the early 60s, so its sort of an honor for me. My
question is, and I dont think this has been talked about, how was the
collaboration, which to me was the modern age of comics started with
Stan Lee and Jack Kirby working together. How did that either come about
and how did that develop in terms of how you wrote a story?
KIRBY: I wrote the story.
Caller: Huh?
KIRBY: I wrote the complete story. I drew the complete story. And after
I came in with the pencils, the story was given to an inker and the
inker would ink the story and a letterer would letter it and I would
give the story to Stan Lee or whoever had the editors chair and I would
leave it there. I would tell them the kind of story I would do to follow
up and then I went home and I would do that story, and I wouldnt come
into the office until I had that story finished. And nobody else had to
work on a story with me.

Caller: Hmm! Ok. Thats actually a little bit of a surprise. Ok, thank you.
Host: Thank you. Its the revision of history going on at Marvel for the
last few years.
KIRBY: Yeah, well
*1989 [Groth]^26 <#26>*
GROTH: I just want to clear one thing updid you write the Challengers, too?
KIRBY: Yes. I wrote the Challengers. I wrote everything I did. When I
went back to Marvel, I began to create the new stuff.
GROTH: Did you find that fulfilling?
KIRBY: Of course it was fulfilling. It was a happy time of life. But.
But, slowly management suddenly realized I was making money. I say
management, but I mean an individual. I was making more money than he
was, OK? Its an individual. And so he says, Well, you know And the
old phrase is born. Screw you. I get mine. OK? And so I had to render
to Caesar what he considered Caesars. And there was a man who never
wrote a line in his life he could hardly spell you know, taking
credit for the writing. I found myself coming up with new angles to keep
afloat. I was in a bad spot. I was in a spot that I didnt want to be in
and yet I had to be to make a living. So I went to DC, and I began
creating for them.
GROTH: Was Stan your basic contact with Marvel? He was the one that you ?
KIRBY: Yes. Id come in, and Id give Stan the work, and Id go home,
and I wrote the story at home. I drew the story at home. I even lettered
in the words in the balloons in pencil.
ROZ KIRBY: Well, youd put them in the margins.
KIRBY: Sometimes I put them in the margins. Sometimes I put em in the
balloons, but I wrote the entire story. I balanced the story
*1987 [Schwartz]^27 <#27>*
JACK: It was in my generation that the publisher came to learn that
sales depended on how you treated the artist I wrote the stories. I
wrote the plots. I did the drawingsI did the entire thing because
nobody else could do it. They didnt know how to do it and they didnt
give a damn. They were taking money they invested in the magazines and
putting it in something else. But I made a living off that. So I put out
magazines that sold. I made sure they sold.
BEN: In the last two or three years people have finally come out and
said you were the prime voice at Marvel. But the Marvel version has
always been that you and Stan Lee did it, or these were all his ideas.
JACK: Well, the Marvel version is that the Marvel outfit will give
credit to nobody except Stanley, see? Stanleys one of the family, okay?
And hes the kind of a guy wholl accept it.
Stan Lee put his name all over the magazines. Stan Lee presents and
Stan Lee this and Stan Lee that. And theres nothing you could do
about it because he was the publishers cousin and if you wanted to

sell, thats how you sold.

*1986 [Borax]^28 <#28>*
JACK: The artists were doing the plotting Stan was just coordinating
the books, which was his job. Stan was production coordinator. But the
artists were the ones that were handling both story and art. We had to
there was no time not to!
*1986 [Pitts]^29 <#29>*
KIRBY: What Im trying to do is give the atmosphere up at Marvel. Im
not trying to attack Stan Lee. Im not trying to put any onus on Stan
Lee. All Im saying is; Stan Lee was a busy man with other duties who
couldnt possibly have the time to suddenly create all these ideas that
hes said he created. And I can tell you that he never wrote the
stories although he wouldnt allow us to write the dialogue in the
balloons. He didnt write my stories.
PITTS: You plotted and he did the dialogue?
KIRBY: You can call it plotted. I call it script. I wrote the script and
I drew the story. I mean, there was nothing on the first or second page
that Stan Lee ever knew would go there. But I knew what would go there.
I knew how to begin the story. I wrote it in my house. Nobody was there
around to tell me. I worked strictly in my house; I always did. I worked
in a small basement in Long Island.
PITTS: Okay, take me through a typical Lee-Kirby comic. Say, from start
to finish, an issue of the F.F.
KIRBY: Okay, Ill give it to you in very short terms: I told Stan Lee
what I wrote and what he was gonna get and Stan Lee accepted it, because
Stan Lee knew my reputation. By that time, I had created or helped
create so many different other features that Stan Lee had infinite
confidence in what I was doing.
created characters and brought them to Stan Lee
*1999 [Amash]^30 <#30>*
JOHN SEVERIN: Though Jack and I rarely saw one another whilst
S.H.I.E.L.D. was being produced, I do recall a bit earlier when he and
I were at a business conference near Columbus Circle. When it was
concluded, weJack and Iadjourned to a coffee house, nearby where
Anastasia was shot down.
Jack wanted to know if Id be interested in syndication. He said we
could be partners on a script idea he had. The story would be set in
Europe during WWII; the hero would be a tough, cigar-smoking Sergeant
with a squad of oddball G.I.ssort of an adult Boy Commandos.
Like so many other grand decisions I have made in comics, I peered
through the cigar smoke and told him I wasnt really interested in
newspaper strips. We finished cigars and coffee and Jack left, heading
towards Marvel and Stan Lee.
*1989 [Groth]^31 <#31>*

GROTH: Stan says he conceptualized virtually everything in The Fantastic

Four that he came up with all the characters. And then he said that he
wrote a detailed synopsis for Jack to follow.
ROZ KIRBY: Ive never seen anything.
KIRBY: Ive never seen it, and of course I would say thats an outright lie.
GROTH: Well, this is probably going to shock you, but Stan takes full
credit for creating the Hulk. Hes written, Actually, ideas have always
been the easiest part of my various chores. And then he went on to say
that in creating The Hulk, It would be my job to take a clichd concept
and make it seem new and fresh and exciting and relevant. Once again, I
decided that Jack Kirby would be the artist to breathe life into our
latest creation. So the next time we met, I outlined the concept Id
been toying with for weeks.
KIRBY: Yes, he was always toying with concepts. On the contrary, it was
I who brought the ideas to Stan. I brought the ideas to DC as well, and
thats how business was done from the beginning.
GROTH: How did all those books in the 60s come to be created? Would
someone at Marvel say, We need another book?
KIRBY: No. Id come up with them.
GROTH: You would just come up with them on your own?
KIRBY: Yes, I would come up with them.
GROTH: How do you feel when he talks about what a great guy you are,
what a terrific co-worker you were, which he does frequently when asked
about the good ol days?
KIRBY: Why wouldnt he say that?
ROZ KIRBY: Yeah. Look what Jack did for Marvel.
KIRBY: Why wouldnt he say that? If I hadnt saved Marvel and if I
hadnt come up with those features, he would have nothing to work on. He
wouldnt be working right now. I dont know what hed be doing now. He
wouldnt be in any editorial position.
GROTH: Do you think he believes that, or is that a public relations facade?
KIRBY: Whats that?
GROTH: Oh, that he thinks youre a great guy, and he loved working with you.
KIRBY: I say its a facade, and what he really means is he loved taking
me. I just hope that you dont find yourselves in a position where you
have to deal with that kind of a personality.
ROZ KIRBY: Id like to say something if I could. Jack created many
characters before he even met Stan. He created almost all the characters
when he was associated with Stan, and after he left Stan, he created
many, many more characters. What has Stan created before he met Jack,
and what has he created after Jack left?
KIRBY: And my wife was present when I created these damn characters. The

only reason I would have any bad feelings against Stan is because my own
wife had to suffer through that with me. It takes a guy like Stan,
without feeling, to realize a thing like that. If he hurts a guy, he
also hurts his family. His wife is going ask questions. His children are
going to ask questions.
*1987 [/Earthwatch/]^32 <#32>*
KIRBY: I can tell you that I was deeply involved with creating
Spider-man. I cant go any further than that, really, because thered
been so many variations and different things done with Spider-man, but I
can tell you at the beginning, I was deeply involved with him.
*1986 [Pitts]^33 <#33>*
PITTS: Now, Stan has said many times that he conceived Spider-Man and
gave it to you and that he turned down the version you came up with
because it was too heroic and larger than life-looking for what he
had in mind.
KIRBY: Thats a contradiction and a blatant untruth.
PITTS: Are there any other Marvel flagship characters that you feel you
created and didnt get the credit for?
KIRBY: All of them. All of them came from my basement. The Avengers,
Daredevil, the X-Men all of them. The X-Men, I did the natural thing
there. What would you do with mutants who were just plain boys and girls
and certainly not dangerous? You school them. You develop their skills.
So I gave them a teacher, Professor X.
PITTS: You obviously feel that you havent gotten the credit thats due
you for the contributions youve made. How does that fact set with you?
ROZ: [TO KIRBY] What hes trying to bring out is we are hurt about how
Marvel treated you.
KIRBY: Well, yes, I am hurt because up at Marvel, Im a non-person. They
say Stan Lee created everything. And of course, Stan Lee didnt. And
Ditko is hurt; Ditko never got his due. The fellas who did make all the
sales for the magazines were never given credit for them. They were
abused in one way or another. I can tell you that thats painful. You
live with that. You live with that all your life. I have to live with
the fact of all those lies, which are being done for pure hype.
*1982 [Eisner]^34 <#34>*
EISNER: You mean /Spider-Man/ was cooked up between you and Joe Simon,
and you brought it to Stan.
KIRBY: Thats right. It was the last thing Joe and I had discussed. We
had a strip called the, or a script called /The Silver Spider/. /The
Silver Spider/ was going into a magazine called /Black Magic/. /Black
Magic/ folded with Crestwood and we were left with the script. I believe
I said this could become a thing called /Spider-Man/, see, a superhero
character. I had a lot of faith in the superhero character, that they
could be brought back, very, very vigorously. They werent being done at
the time. I felt they could regenerate and I said /Spider-Man/ would be
a fine character to start with. But Joe had already moved on. So the
idea was already there when I talked to Stan.

*1970 [Hamilton]^35 <#35>*

BRUCE: Was the concept of the Fantastic Four your idea or Stan Lees?
JACK: It was my idea. It was my idea to do it the way it was; my idea to
develop it the way it was. Im not saying that Stan had nothing to do
with it. Of course he did. We talked things out. As things went on, I
began to work at home and I no longer came up to the office. I developed
all the stuff at home and just sent it in. I had to come up with new
ideas to help the strip sell.
*1970 [San Diego]^36 <#36>*
AUDIENCE: In the Marvel line in the 1960s, what part exactly did you
play in creating the line? Besides art; I mean also plot and
characterization of all the magazines you worked on in the early issues
when they were just developing. What part did you play besides art?
KIRBY: Quite a substantial part. Thats all Im gonna say. [laughter]
*1969 [Hebert]^37 <#37>*
TCJ: You drew almost everything.
KIRBY: I did, just about.
TCJ: You created and drew all of Marvels standard heroes.
KIRBY: Thats right.
TCJ: And they were all the same Thor, Ant Man, Iron Man
KIRBY: In spite of it.
TCJ: Exactly. Except for the Hulk who was quite different.
KIRBY: I created the Hulk, too, and saw him as a kind of handsome
Frankenstein.
*Early 1980s [Kirby]^38 <#38>*
In the early 80s during his original art dispute with Marvel, Kirby was
asked by his legal team to make some notes about his work for the
company. According to Mark Evanier, Kirby dictated the notes to Roz
before signing them. In addition to the details of creation and credit,
he touched on the circumstances that brought him and the company back
together in their time of mutual need.
/When I arrived at Marvel in 1959, it was closing shop that very
afternoon, according to what was related to me by Stan Lee./
/The comic book dept. was another victim of the Dr. Wertham negative
cycle + definitely was following in the wake of EC Comics, The Gaines
Publishing House./
/In order to keep working I suggested to Stan Lee that to initiate a new
line of Super Heroes he submit my ideas to Martin Goodman the
Publisher of Marvel./

/To insure sales I also did the writing which I was not credited for as
Stan Lee wrote the credits for all of the books which I did not
contest because of his relationship with the publisher Martin Goodman./
/Although I was not allowed to write the Balloon dialogue, the
stories, the characters + the additional planning for the scripts
progress was strictly due to my own foresight + literary workmanship./
/There were no scripts. I created the characters + wrote the stories in
my own home + merely brought them into the office each month./
Workflow
*1989 [Groth]^39 <#39>*
GROTH: Stan wrote, Jack and I were having a ball turning out monster
stories. Were you having a ball, Jack?
KIRBY: Stan Lee was having the ball.
GROTH: Ive seen original art with words written on the sides of the pages.
KIRBY: That would be my dialogue.
GROTH: You would talk to Stan on the phone what was a typical
conversation like when you were plotting the Fantastic Four: what would
he say and what would you say?
KIRBY: On The Fantastic Four, Id tell him what I was going to do, what
the story was going to be, and Id bring it in thats all.
GROTH: How long were your discussions with Stan Lee when you were
discussing the next Thor or the next Avengers or the next Fantastic
Four? How long would you talk to Stan about it?
KIRBY: Not much. I didnt particularly care to talk to Stan, and I just
gave him possibly some idea of what the next story would be like, and
then I went home. I told him very little, and I went home, and I
conceived and put down the entire story on paper.
*1987 [/Earthwatch/]^40 <#40>*
KNIGHT: Well, lets turn then, to the environment, which may be equally
as important, the environment out of which Spider-man was created. Of
course, you were involved in the historic partnership with Stan Lee at
Marvel. So, what was the working environment like there? How was it
different from the other companies? What was the Merry Marvel Marching
Society like?
KIRBY: Well, it wasnt it wasnt well, I didnt consider it merry. I
considered it very well, in those days, it was a professional type
thing. You turned in your ideas and you got your wages and you took them
home. It was a very, very simple affair. Its nothing that could be
dramatized or glorified or glamorized in any way. It was a very, very
simple affair. I created the situation and I analyzed them. I did them
panel by panel. I did everything but put the words in the balloons. But
all of it was mine, except the words in the balloons.
REECE: But Jack, what about these legendary story conferences of you and

Stan, or Stan and whomever, acting the stories out, in the office,
jumping up on the desks and so forth, making things considerably more
lively than when it was just an office consisting of Stan and Fabulous
Flo Steinberg, having people stick their faces in the door, from
Magazine Management, going, Hurry up, little elves, Santa will be
coming soon!
KIRBY: Uh, Id have to disagree with that. It wasnt like that at all.
It may have been like that after I shut the door and went home.
*1971 [Skelly]^41 <#41>*
TCJ: How do you feel about your days at Marvel? Did you like working
with Stan Lee?
KIRBY: Well, I didnt exactly work with Stan Lee. I worked at home and I
wasnt at the office much. Id come in maybe once or twice a month and
deliver my drawings. Stan Lee would usually be pretty busy, being the
editor there, and Id deliver my stuff and that would be all there was
to it. Id tell Stan Lee what the next story was going to be, and Id go
home and do it.
*1989 [Groth]^42 <#42>*
GROTH: When you went to Marvel in 58 and 59, Stan was obviously there.
KIRBY: Yes, and he was the same way.
GROTH: And you two collaborated on all the monster stories?
KIRBY: Stan Lee and I never collaborated on anything! Ive never seen
Stan Lee write anything. I used to write the stories just like I always did.
*1982 [Eisner]^43 <#43>*
KIRBY: Stan Lee wouldnt let me fill in the balloons. Stan Lee wouldnt
let me put in the dialogue. But I wrote the entire story under the
panels. I never explained the story to Stan Lee. I wrote the story under
each panel so that when he wrote that dialogue, the story was already
there. In other words, he didnt know what the story was about and he
didnt care because he was busy being an editor. I was glad because he
was doing the same thing Joe did. He left me alone.
EISNER: Were running out of time here. Let me tail off this thing by
going back into the technique of work. The laying out of a page. Since
you write and draw, you regard yourself as I like to regard myself, as a
total writer. Do you agree that this is a total dimension, that there is
no separation between the words and pictures? That theyre integrated?
Do you agree with that?
KIRBY: I believe that the man who draws the story should write it.
*1971 [Skelly]^44 <#44>*
TCJ: There was a distinct difference between the stories you drew, and
that probably had a lot to do with the writing
KIRBY: Well, the policy there is the artist isnt allowed to do the
dialogue, and therefore has to confine himself to the script. What the
artist does is the script and the drawing, and the dialogue is filled in

by the writer in the balloons. The artist writes the action in the
margin of the illustration board and the writer is therefore able to
follow the action in each individual panel. What the artist does is make
the framework for the dialogue writer.
Kirbys Inspiration
*1982 [Zimmerman]^45 <#45>*
My mother was a great storyteller, Kirby reveals. She came from
somewhere near Transylvania and she told me stories that would stand
your hair on end. I loved my mother and I loved those stories. The art
of storytelling, certainly, is in all of us. But to tell it
dramatically, to tell it right, you have to be influenced, I think, in a
certain manner. Somewhere along the line, whoever is good has been
raised by people who are good in the same manner.
/Fantastic Four/
*1992 [Prisoners of Gravity]^46 <#46>*
Q: In the early 1960s, you created hundreds of heroes to populate the
Marvel universe. What did the Fantastic Four represent to you?
JACK: The Fantastic Four were the team, they were the young people. I
love young people, I love teenagers. Youll find that the Fantastic Four
represent that group in many ways. Theyre very vital and very active.
The teens certainly are in that category. So the Fantastic Four was my
admiration for young people.
The Thing was really myself. If youll notice the way the Thing talks
and acts, youll find that the Thing is really Jack Kirby. He has my
manners, he has my manner of speech, and he thinks the way I do. Hes
excitable, and youll find that hes very, very active among people, and
he can muscle his way through a crowd. I find that Im that sort of person.
*1975 [Sherman]^47 <#47>*
SHERMAN: As the fifties drew to a close, the super-heroes began to
return. When you began the /Challengers of the Unknown/, were you
striving more for a super-hero rebirth or for breaking into science
fiction and adventure material more?
KIRBY: The issues I did were still formative and I cant answer for what
DC did with them. But they were heading for the super-hero image when I
left. In many ways, they were the predecessors of the FF.
*1969 [Hebert]^48 <#48>*
TCJ: Then the Fantastic Four came along, which was a small revolution in
itself.
KIRBY: Well, it was a revolution in the sense that it was /now/ the
superhero had become /now/. I felt like experimenting with gimmicks.
When I drew a gimmick, it wasnt the old type of gimmick; it was
everything based on right now and what people saw everyday and what they
might see five or ten years from now. I could take electronic setups and
just let them run riotus, and that led to the gadgets you might see

today. Thats how the Negative Zone came about. I began to experiment
with that kind of stuff and thats how Ego came about. I began to throw
my mind out in all different directions.
*1989 [Groth]^49 <#49>*
GROTH: Looking back on it, do you see the Challengers as a precursor to
the Fantastic Four?
KIRBY: Yes, there were always precursors to the Fantastic Four except
the Fantastic Four were mutations. When people began talking about the
bomb and its possible effect on human beings, they began talking about
mutations because thats a distinct possibility. And I said, Thats a
great idea. Thats how the Fantastic Four began, with an atomic
explosion and its effect on the characters. Ben Grimm who was a college
man and a fine looking man suddenly became the Thing. Susan Storm became
invisible because of the atomic effects on her body. Reed Richards
became flexible and became a character that I could work with in various
ways. And there were others mutation effects didnt only affect
heroes, it affected villains too. So I had a grand time with the atomic
bomb. [Laughter.]
/Benjamin Grimm/
*1989 [Groth]^50 <#50>*
GROTH: Jack, did you put a lot of yourself into the character of Ben Grimm?
KIRBY: Well, they associated me with Ben Grimm. I suppose I must be a
lot like Ben Grimm. I never duck out of a fight; I dont care what the
hell the odds are, and Im rough at times, but I try to be a decent guy
all the time. Thats the way Ive always lived. Because I have children
In other words, my ambition was always to be a perfect picture of an
American. An American is a guy, a rich guy with a family, a decent guy
with a family with as many kids as he likes, doing what he wants,
working with people that he likes, and enjoying himself to his very old age.
/Thor/
*1992 [Prisoners of Gravity]^51 <#51>*
Q: What prompted you to reinvent Thor for the comics in 1962?
JACK: Well, I knew the Thor legends very well, but I wanted to modernize
them. I felt that might be a new thing for comics, taking the old
legends and modernizing them. I believe I accomplished that.
*1969 [Hebert]^52 <#52>*
KIRBY: There was a time when I had to do a story about a living planet.
A planet that was alive; a planet that was intelligent. That was nothing
new either because there had been other stories on live planets but
thats not acceptable. Oh, I could tell you that there was a living
planet somewhere and you would say, Yeah, thats wild, but how do you
relate to it? Why is it alive? So I felt somewhere out in the universe,
the universe turns liquid becomes denser and turns liquid and that
in this liquid, there was a giant multiple virus, and if this multiple
virus remained isolated for millions and millions of years, it would

begin to think. It would begin to evolve by itself and it would begin to

think. By the time we reached it, it might be quite superior to us and
that was Ego. That was acceptable because I was answering questions that
someone might ask about it. Its a concept. I feel somewhere in fact,
it almost makes sense that the universe gets denser and the atoms grow
more compact and possibly nothingness becomes something and that
something gets bigger and it gets bigger and it might resolve itself
into some kind of liquid atoms. Why not?
*1985 [Van Hise]^53 <#53>*
I did a version of Thor for DC. In the Fifties before I did him for
Marvel. He had a red beard but he was a legendary figure, which I liked.
I liked the figure of Thor at DC and I created Thor at Marvel because I
was forever enamored of legends. I knew all about these legends which is
why I knew about Balder, Heimdall and Odin. I tried to update Thor and
put him in a superhero costume. He looked great in it and everybody
loved him, but he was still Thor.
*1989 [Groth]^54 <#54>*
KIRBY: I loved Thor because I loved legends. Ive always loved legends.
Stan Lee was the type of guy who would never know about Balder and who
would never know about the rest of the characters. I had to build up
that legend of Thor in the comics.
GROTH: The whole Asgardian
KIRBY: Yes. The whole Asgardian company, see? I built up Loki. I simply
read Loki was the classic villain and, of course, all the rest of them.
I even threw in the Three Musketeers. I drew them from Shakespearean
figures. I combined Shakespearean figures with the Three Musketeers and
came up with these three friends who supplemented Thor and his company,
and this is the way I kept these strips going by creative little steps
like that.
/Galactus/
*1987 [Viola]^55 <#55>*
KV: There was an incredible run of issues of the Fantastic Four, in
which you created Galactus, the Silver Surfer, the Inhumans, and the
Black Panther.
JK: Yes, thats true.
KV: Do you recall that period of creative breakthrough, and your
inspirations?
JK: My inspirations were the fact that I had to make sales and come up
with characters that were no longer stereotypes. In other words, I
couldnt depend on gangsters, I had to get something new.
For some reason I went to the Bible, and I came up with Galactus. And
there I was in front of this tremendous figure, who I knew very well
because Ive always felt him. I certainly couldnt treat him in the same
way I could any ordinary mortal. And I remember in my first story, I had
to back away from him to resolve that story. The Silver Surfer is, of
course, the fallen angel. When Galactus relegated him to Earth, he

stayed on Earth, and that was the beginning of his adventures.

*1985 [Van Hise]^56 <#56>*
Id been using gangsters and it wasnt fair for superheroes to fight
gangsters. My basic philosophy, if you want to call it that, is
fairness. I believe in fairness. Gangsters wouldnt stand a chance
against superheroes so I had to find people as good as superheroes who
could compete on their own level and that gave rise to the supervillain.
I found myself coming out with the most powerful villain, and the most
controversial (which is great for sales), and thats Galactus. I felt
that somewhere around the cosmos are powerful things that we know
nothing about and from that came Galactus. He was almost like a god and
thats where I came up with the god concepts. There might be things out
there that are ultimates compared to us.
*1989 [Groth]^57 <#57>*
GROTH: How did you come up with Galactus?
KIRBY: Galactus was God, and I was looking for God. When I first came up
with Galactus, I was very awed by him. I didnt know what to do with the
character.
Everybody talks about God, but what the heck does he look like? Well,
hes supposed to be awesome, and Galactus is awesome to me. I drew him
large and awesome. No one ever knew the extent of his powers or
anything, and I think symbolically thats our relationship [with God].
/Doctor Doom/
*1982 [Eisner]^58 <#58>*
KIRBY: I began to define characters.
EISNER: Give me an example.
KIRBY: Okay, Ill give you Doctor Doom, who is one of my characters. Dr.
Doom is a handsome guy But first, I began with the classics that were
very powerful. What comics were doing all the time was updating the
classics. So, I borrowed from /Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde/. I felt there
was a Mr. Hyde in all of us and that was a character I wanted and I
called him the Hulk. In the legend of Thor, I began to update Thor. I
felt that Thor needed friends so I went to the /Four Musketeers/, and
that was the basis.
*1969 [Hebert]^59 <#59>*
KIRBY: Dr. Doom is paranoid. He thinks hes ugly and he wants the whole
world to be like him. Dr. Doom is the fox who had his tail cut off, and
hes trying to talk the whole world into having their tails cut off so
when everyone has his tail cut off, he becomes the most handsome fox.
Thats ridiculous, because paranoids are insane people who never get
their way. Hitler tried it, you know.
/The Hulk/
*1982 [Zimmerman]^60 <#60>*

I did a mess of things. The only book I didnt work on was /Spider-Man,
/which Steve Ditko did. But Spider-Man was my creation. The Hulk was my
creation. It was simply /Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. /I was borrowing from
the classics. They are the most powerful literature there is I was
beginning to find myself as a thinking human being. I began to think
about things that were real. I didnt want to tell fairy tales. I wanted
to tell things as they are. But I wanted to tell them in an entertaining
way. And I told it in the /Fantastic Four /and I told it in /Sgt. Fury
/If I wanted to tell the entire truth about the world, I could do it
with /Robinson Crusoe, /and do /Robinson Crusoe /for the rest of my life.
*1969 [Hebert]^61 <#61>*
KIRBY: I created the Hulk, too, and saw him as a kind of handsome
Frankenstein.
TCJ: Strangely enough, that was my first impression, but everyone else
thought he was a monster to be pitied.
KIRBY: I never felt the Hulk was a monster, because I felt the Hulk was
me. I feel all the characters were me. Being a monster is just the
surface thing. I wont accept that either because I want to know why the
Hulk jumps around, what the limits of his strength are. I feel that the
Hulks strength is unlimited for some damn reason I dont understand.
Its just unlimited, and when I had him fight with the Thing, I felt the
Hulk broke it off at a point where he hadnt fully tested his strength.
I feel it should be that way.
/The Black Panther/
*1986 [Borax]^62 <#62>*
MARK: The Panther.
JACK: The Panther. I got to hemming and hawing You know, theres
never been a black man in comics. And I brought in a picture of this
costumed guy which was later modified so he could have a lot more
movement. Actually, at first he was a guy with a cape, and all I did was
take the cape off and there he was in fighting stance, unencumbered. The
Black Panther came in, and of course we got a new audience! We got the
audience we shouldve gotten in the first place. We began to accumulate
new readers and Marvel got back on its feet and then (pause) I left.
*1989 [Groth]^63 <#63>*
GROTH: How did you come up with the Black Panther?
KIRBY: I came up with the Black Panther because I realized I had no
blacks in my strip. Id never drawn a black. I needed a black. I
suddenly discovered that I had a lot of black readers. My first friend
was a black! And here I was ignoring them because I was associating with
everybody else. It suddenly dawned on me believe me, it was for human
reasons I suddenly discovered nobody was doing blacks. And here I am a
leading cartoonist and I wasnt doing a black. I was the first one to do
an Asian. Then I began to realize that there was a whole range of human
differences. Remember, in my day, drawing an Asian was drawing Fu Manchu
thats the only Asian they knew. The Asians were wily

*The Silver Surfer*

*1986 [Borax]^64 <#64>*
JACK: I got the Silver Surfer, and I suddenly realized here was the
dramatic situation between God and the Devil! The Devil himself was an
archangel. The Devil wasnt ugly he was a /beautiful/ guy! He was the
guy that challenged God.
MARK: Thats the Surfer challenging Galactus.
JACK: And Galactus says, You want to see my power? Stay on Earth forever!
MARK: He exiled the Surfer out of Paradise.
JACK: And of course the Surfer is a good character, but he got a little
bit of an ego and it destroyed him. Thats very natural. If we got an
ego it might destroy us. People say, Look at him who does he think he
is? We knew him when. They throw tomatoes at you. Of course, Galactus,
in his own way, and maybe the people of his type, are also doing that to
the Surfer. They were people of a certain class and power, and if any
one of em became pretentious or affectacious, they would do the same
thing. /We/ would do the same thing. If a movie star walked past you and
gave you the snub, youd give him a hot foot just to show him, I paid
my money to see you and thats what youre living on. Youre not just
a face in the crowd youre a moviegoer, you plunk your dough down, and
this guy lives off it.
*1970 [San Diego]^65 <#65>*
AUDIENCE: What was your inspiration for the Silver Surfer?
KIRBY: Gee, I dont know. The Silver Surfer came out of a feeling;
thats the only thing I can say. When I drew Galactus, I just dont know
why, but I suddenly figured out that Galactus was God, and I found that
Id made a villain out of God, and I couldnt make a villain out of him.
And I couldnt treat him as a villain, so I had to back away from him. I
backed away from Galactus, and I felt he was so awesome, and in some way
he was God, and who would accompany God, but some kind of fallen angel?
And thats who the Silver Surfer was. And at the end of the story,
Galactus condemned him to Earth, and he couldnt go into space anymore.
So the Silver Surfer played his role in that manner. And, yknow, I
cant say why; it just happened. And that was the Silver Surfer, I
suppose you might call it I dont know, some kind of response to an
inner feeling.
*1989 [Groth]^66 <#66>*
KIRBY: My conception of the Silver Surfer was a human being from space
in that particular form. He came in when everybody began surfing I
read about it in the paper.
The kids in California were beginning to surf. I couldnt do an ordinary
teenager surfing so I drew a surfboard with a man from outer space on it.
Telling the truth
*1986 [Pitts]^67 <#67>*

KIRBY: The only thing I can add is that Ive been telling the truth and
Ill never speak to another person without telling the truth. Ive been
a cruel man in my time, Ive been a devious man in my time, like
everybody else. Ive told lies in my time. But Ive seen enough
suffering to experiment with the truth.
Since Ive matured, since the war itselfIve always been a feisty guy,
but since the war itself, there are people that I didnt like, but I saw
them suffer and it changed me. I promised myself that I would never tell
a lie, never hurt another human being, and I would try to make the world
as positive as I could.
Legacy
*1989 [Groth]^68 <#68>*
KIRBY: I can say that Ive done my job extremely well. My only beef is
that a lot of people have put their fingers in whatever Ive done and
tried to screw it up, and Ive always resented that. I always resent
anybody interfering with anybody else trying to do his job. Everybody
has his own job to do. If hes good, hell do well, but if hes
mediocre, hes not going to do as well as he should. I believe that Im
in a thorough, professional class wholl give you the best you can get.
You wont get any better than the stuff that I can do Ive never done
anything half-heartedly. Its the reason my comics did well. Its the
reason my comics were drawn well. I cant do anything bad. I wont do
anything bad, and I resent very deeply bad people who havent got the
ability, who try to interfere with the kind of work Im trying to do
because nobodys going to benefit from it. If youre a thorough
professional, and they wont let you do a professional job, nobodys
going to benefit from it. The people who produce it wont benefit. The
people who buy it wont benefit from it. Theyre going to get a
half-assed product, and I believe thats what the editorial people in
comics at that time bought. They bought a half-assed product, or they
created a half-assed product, and thats what they got in return, they
got half-assed returns If Ive done it myself, Ive always been
satisfied. If somebody interfered, it always created a bad period in my
life.
Footnotes
/The repetition in the footnotes allows linking back to specific quotes./
back <#ref1> ^1 Bruce Hamilton interview, conducted shortly after Jack
left Marvel in 1970, published in /Rockets Blast Comicollector/ #81,
1971 (TJKC 18, Jan 1998).
back <#ref2> ^2 Tim Skelly conducting, The Great Electric Bird show,
WNUR-FM, Northwestern University (Evanston, IL), 14 May 1971; later
published in /The Nostalgia Journal /27, Aug 1976.
back <#ref3> ^3 Howard Zimmerman, Kirby Takes on the Comics, /Comics
Scene /#2, March 1982.
back <#ref4> ^4 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.

back <#ref5> ^5 Ben Schwartz, /UCLA Daily Bruin. /Conducted 4 Dec 1987,
published 22 Jan 1988 (/The Jack Kirby Collector /23, Feb 1999).
back <#ref6> ^6 Leonard Pitts, Jr., conducted in 1986 or 1987 for a book
titled Conversations With The Comic Book Creators. Posted on /The
Kirby Effect: The Journal of the Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center./
back <#ref7> ^7 James Van Hise, Superheroes: The Language That Jack
Kirby Wrote, /Comics Feature /#34, March-April 1985.
back <#ref8> ^8 Howard Zimmerman, Kirby Takes on the Comics, /Comics
Scene /#2, March 1982.
back <#ref9> ^9 Shop Talk, Jack Kirby interviewed by Will Eisner, /Will
Eisners Spirit Magazine /39, July 1982.
back <#ref10> ^10 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref11> ^11 An interview with Drew Friedman, conducted by Kliph
Nesteroff, /WFMUs Beware of the Blog, /August 08, 2010.
back <#ref12> ^12 Dick Ayers interviewed by Roy Thomas and Jim Amash,
/Alter Ego /V3No31, December 2003.
back <#ref13> ^13 A Conversation with Artist-Writer Larry Lieber,
interviewed by Roy Thomas, /Alter Ego /V3No2, Fall 1999.
back <#ref14> ^14 Jim Vadeboncouer (based on a story uncovered by Brad
Elliot), The Great Atlas Implosion, /The Jack Kirby Collector /#18,
January 1998.
back <#ref15> ^15 Flo Steinberg interviewed by Jim Salicrup and Dwight
Jon Zimmerman, /Comics Interview /#17, November 1984.
back <#ref16> ^16 Michael Vassallo, by email, 22 October 2014 and 4
January 2015.
back <#ref17> ^17 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref18> ^18 Shop Talk, Jack Kirby interviewed by Will Eisner,
/Will Eisners Spirit Magazine /39, July 1982.
back <#ref19> ^19 Steve Sherman, 1975, /The Jack Kirby Collector/ #8,
January 1996. (Originally presented in the 1975 Comic Art Convention
program book.)
back <#ref20> ^20 Mark Hebert, conducted early 1969, appeared in /The
Nostalgia Journal /#30, November 1976, and #31, December 1976.
back <#ref21> ^21 Glenn Danzig with Mike Thibodeaux, conducted early
1990s, /The Jack Kirby Collector /#22, December 1998.
back <#ref22> ^22 James Van Hise, Superheroes: The Language That Jack
Kirby Wrote, /Comics Feature /#34, March-April 1985.
back <#ref23> ^23 Shop Talk, Jack Kirby interviewed by Will Eisner,
/Will Eisners Spirit Magazine /39, July 1982.

back <#ref24> ^24 Howard Zimmerman, Kirby Takes on the Comics, /Comics
Scene /#2, March 1982.
back <#ref25> ^25 Mike Hodels /Hour 25, /Jack Kirby radio interview
conducted by J. Michael Strazcynski and Larry DiTillio, 13 April 1990.
Transcript posted on /The Kirby Effect: The Journal of the Jack Kirby
Museum & Research Center./
back <#ref26> ^26 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref27> ^27 Ben Schwartz, /UCLA Daily Bruin. /Conducted 4 Dec
1987, published 22 Jan 1988 (/The Jack Kirby Collector /23, Feb 1999).
back <#ref28> ^28 Mark Borax interview, /Comics Interview #/41, 1986.
back <#ref29> ^29 Leonard Pitts, Jr., conducted in 1986 or 1987 for a
book titled Conversations With The Comic Book Creators. Posted on /The
Kirby Effect: The Journal of the Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center./
back <#ref30> ^30 John Severin interviewed by Jim Amash, /The Jack Kirby
Collector /#25, August 1999.
back <#ref31> ^31 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref32> ^32 Robert Knights /Earthwatch/, Jack Kirby radio
interview conducted by Warren Reece and Max Schmid, WBAI New York, 28
August 1987. Transcript posted on /The Kirby Effect: The Journal of the
Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center./
back <#ref33> ^33 Leonard Pitts, Jr., conducted in 1986 or 1987 for a
book titled Conversations With The Comic Book Creators. Posted on /The
Kirby Effect: The Journal of the Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center./
back <#ref34> ^34 Shop Talk, Jack Kirby interviewed by Will Eisner,
/Will Eisners Spirit Magazine /39, July 1982.
back <#ref35> ^35 Bruce Hamilton interview, conducted shortly after Jack
left Marvel in 1970, published in /Rockets Blast Comicollector/ #81,
1971 (TJKC 18, Jan 1998).
back <#ref36> ^36 San Diego Golden State Comic-Con panel, 1 August 1970,
printed in /The Jack Kirby Collector /#57, Summer 2011.
back <#ref37> ^37 Mark Hebert, conducted early 1969, appeared in /The
Nostalgia Journal /#30, November 1976, and #31, December 1976.
back <#ref38> ^38 Handwritten notes signed by Jack Kirby, Justia,
Dockets & Filings, Second Circuit, New York, New York Southern District
Court, Marvel Worldwide, Inc. et al v. Kirby et al, Filing 97, Exhibit
RR. Posted on /The Kirby Effect: The Journal of the Jack Kirby Museum &
Research Center./
back <#ref39> ^39 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref40> ^40 Robert Knights /Earthwatch/, Jack Kirby radio
interview conducted by Warren Reece and Max Schmid, WBAI New York, 28
August 1987. Transcript posted on /The Kirby Effect: The Journal of the

Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center./

back <#ref41> ^41 Tim Skelly conducting, The Great Electric Bird show,
WNUR-FM, Northwestern University (Evanston, IL), 14 May 1971; later
published in /The Nostalgia Journal /27, Aug 1976.
back <#ref42> ^42 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref43> ^43 Shop Talk, Jack Kirby interviewed by Will Eisner,
/Will Eisners Spirit Magazine /39, July 1982.
back <#ref44> ^44 Tim Skelly conducting, The Great Electric Bird show,
WNUR-FM, Northwestern University (Evanston, IL), 14 May 1971; later
published in /The Nostalgia Journal /27, Aug 1976.
back <#ref45> ^45 Howard Zimmerman, Kirby Takes on the Comics, /Comics
Scene /#2, March 1982.
back <#ref46> ^46 Rick Green, Prisoners of Gravity, TVOntario, 1992.
Transcript published in /The Jack Kirby Collector /#14, February 1997.
back <#ref47> ^47 Steve Sherman, 1975, /The Jack Kirby Collector/ #8,
January 1996. (Originally presented in the 1975 Comic Art Convention
program book.)
back <#ref48> ^48 Mark Hebert, conducted early 1969, appeared in /The
Nostalgia Journal /#30, November 1976, and #31, December 1976.
back <#ref49> ^49 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref50> ^50 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref51> ^51 Rick Green, Prisoners of Gravity, TVOntario, 1992.
Transcript published in /The Jack Kirby Collector /#14, February 1997.
back <#ref52> ^52 Mark Hebert, conducted early 1969, appeared in /The
Nostalgia Journal /#30, November 1976, and #31, December 1976.
back <#ref53> ^53 James Van Hise, Superheroes: The Language That Jack
Kirby Wrote, /Comics Feature /#34, March-April 1985.
back <#ref54> ^54 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref55> ^55 Ken Viola, Jack Kirby The Master of Comic Book
Art, transcript of his interview of Kirby for the film, /The Masters of
Comic Book Art,/conducted February, 1987. Published in /The Jack Kirby
Collector /#7, October 1995.
back <#ref56> ^56 James Van Hise, Superheroes: The Language That Jack
Kirby Wrote, /Comics Feature /#34, March-April 1985.
back <#ref57> ^57 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref58> ^58 Shop Talk, Jack Kirby interviewed by Will Eisner,
/Will Eisners Spirit Magazine /39, July 1982.

back <#ref59> ^59 Mark Hebert, conducted early 1969, appeared in /The
Nostalgia Journal /#30, November 1976, and #31, December 1976.
back <#ref61> ^61 Mark Hebert, conducted early 1969, appeared in /The
Nostalgia Journal /#30, November 1976, and #31, December 1976.
back <#ref62> ^62 Mark Borax interview, /Comics Interview #/41, 1986.
back <#ref63> ^63 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref64> ^64 Mark Borax interview, /Comics Interview #/41, 1986.
back <#ref65> ^65 San Diego Golden State Comic-Con panel, 1 August 1970,
printed in /The Jack Kirby Collector /#57, Summer 2011.
back <#ref66> ^66 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
back <#ref67> ^67 Leonard Pitts, Jr., conducted in 1986 or 1987 for a
book titled Conversations With The Comic Book Creators. Posted on /The
Kirby Effect: The Journal of the Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center./
back <#ref68> ^68 Gary Groth, conducted in summer of 1989, /The Comics
Journal /#134, February 1990.
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