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Jan
08
What Goes Around Comes Around used as a Fear and Compliance Tactic

By Darlene Ouimet <http://emergingfrombroken.com/author/darleneouimet/>


Abuse statement what goes around comes around
when abusers state even God says you are wrong
It amazes me what people think I will publish on this website. Emerging
from Broken is about *healing*
<http://emergingfrombroken.com/emotional-healing-by-understanding-psychologicalabuse/>
from abuse and neglect. It is about overcoming and healing from the
damage after having been discounted, devalued and defined by the
statements and actions of carless and for the most part unloving people.
It is about having to submit to the thoughts and value system of our
elders, parents, grandparents, grandparents, teachers or any others who
placed their importance above ours.
I got this comment this week from Nancy on one of articles I wrote about
my mother and our *dysfunctional mother daughter relationship.*
<http://emergingfrombroken.com/my-mother-doesnt-love-me-but-i-am-not-alone/>
I am highlighting it today because it is such a good example of toxic
mother behaviour and attitudes. Children should know their place and
what goes around comes around. This comment is so typical of what we
were/are told and how we were/are treated.
Nancy is the very angry mother of a daughter who drew a boundary. At
first her comment communicates that the boundary her daughter is drawing
is unfair. That she as a mother has done nothing but support her
daughter and now she is being called selfish and accused of doing things
with a wrong motive. She justifies her behaviour, all the while denying
that she ever did anything wrong. But then her comments which I have
highlighted in bold print reveal a different story. I read this comment
several times and each time I saw with more clarity the depth of the
manipulation and the disgusting (and false) belief system of the writer.
Nancy writes: (Note: I did not edit this comment)
/To all of you young ladies who claim abuse, I am the 64 yr old mother
of a 28 year old who claims she needs to stay away from me because i
have so abused her. Now mind you, shes not talking about hitting her or
yelling at her, or telling her she is a worthless so and so that I dont
love her. No. She says I am selfish because I did all i could to help
her pursue her interests and was right there in the front row clapping
and encouraging her. Apparently according to her, I was doing all this
in order to live through her and so I would look good in others peoples
eyes that my daughter was such a success. What a bunch of BS!!!!! So let
me get this straight, we parents are accused of being abusive no matter
what we do!!! Is that right Get over yourslves. Your parents did the
best they could and you just want to whine about your unhappiness and
blame and it on the easiest target you can find. Your mother. *What goes
around comes around. Come back after your kids are grown and reject you
for these rediculous charges because what goes around comes around.
The Bible says honor your mother and father that YOU will live long.
Theres nothing in there about honoring you children. In fact it says
spare the rod, spoil the child. You are all spoiled and ungrateful and
are cruel if you keep your children and parents estranged.*/
/Nancy/
I put the most important part of her comments in BOLD print. This is
where the truth leaks are about the belief system of this angry

mother. Lets take a closer look;


*/~What goes around comes around/* ~to warn the daughter that whatever
ever she is doing to her mother now, will happen to her; that the
daughters children are going to do this to her BECAUSE of what she is
doing to her mother.
~*/Come back after your kids are grown and reject you for these
ridiculous charges because what goes around comes around./*/~/ This
is used as a threat to inspire FEAR. But fear of what? If I treated my
children with the same disregard and disrespect that my mother treated
me with, then I guess I could expect this same rejection from my kids.
But it is not because I stood up to my mother that I need to have fear
in my relationships with my kids.
The truth about this is that if a mother loves her daughter in the true
definition of love in the first place, what went around *would* come
back around. But what would come back around would be LOVE, mutual
respect and a desire to BE in a relationship. Children learn
relationship from their parents. Why is it that people who say what
goes around, comes back around never see it from that perspective? This
is happening to HER, to Nancy and she is saying that it will come back
around to the commenters who are having difficulties with their mothers
when they have grown children. She says come back and complain when
this happens to you. Her stance is that WE are going to be sorry, but
at the same time she sees no fault on her part for anything she did that
may have contributed to the boundary that HER daughter is drawing, as
though this is NOT a two way street. This is so typical of an abusive,
controlling person and once I saw this truth in a few places, many
others became clear to me.
*/The Bible says honor your mother and father that YOU will live
long. /*This is a directive taken out of the bible and it is used in a
manipulative way. Using the words in the bible this way is a way of
saying God is on my side here~ and no one can argue with GOD. People
say things like this in order to gain some ground; to prove they are
right because the bible even says so but her saying that ISNT proof
and just saying it doesnt make them right about the directive because
they are taking it out of context and misusing it to manipulate people.
I could answer with so much more from the bible that teaches to RUN from
anyone who leads you away from Christ/God. Why would parents be exempt
from those biblical teachings? What kind of God would turn a blind eye
to parents, the very ones intrusted to teach children about Him? What
kind of God would condone abuse, neglect, discounting and devaluing
children? If parents were not modeling the love that God/Christ wanted
to be modeled, then who would do it? How would children ever learn to
love, respect, or treat others the way they would like to be treated if
they were treated like objects without feelings? Someone has to be the
role model here! If not the parents, then WHO?
The biggest truth leak in Nancys little guilt trip about her own
beliefs was this: */Theres nothing in there /*(in the Bible)*/about
honoring you children. In fact it says spare the rod, spoil the child.
/*She makes this statement to PROVE that the parents have all the rights
and children have none. By stating the bible says nothing about honoring
children, she says that the (biblical) teachings actually communicate
that children dont have ANY right to being honored! And then she backs
that belief up with saying; IN FACT the bible advocates abuse.
Finally Nancy offers her personal judgement on all of us who have

concluded that we have been damaged by our own mothers; that we are all
spoiled and ungrateful and that we are also cruel if we keep children
and parents estranged. *Typical guilt and shame stuff*
<http://emergingfrombroken.com/how-blame-guilt-and-shame-get-misapplied-to-self/
>.
She takes NO responsibility for the estrangement with her own daughter
although she earlier states that what goes around comes around. She
defends herself and her actions using any means she can think of
including the Bible, but yet this comment leaks the truth all over the
place about her one sided belief system, dysfunctional mother daughter
relationship methods and her beliefs that children have no rights.
I dont have to wonder long about what her childhood was
how she learned the things that she posted. If she goes
beliefs and listens to her own daughter, she may have to
past which is something that the majority of these toxic
unwilling to do.

like or where /
against her own
face her own
parents are

Nancy could be anyones mother. She could be my mother who often said
just wait till YOU have kids Darlene, then you will see /how hard it
is/. Then you wont be so /ungrateful/. Then you will see what I have
gone through. My mother threw bible quotes at me too. My kids are now
21, 19 and 15 and although I understand my mothers motives (using fear
to control me and get me to comply to her wishes and accept her
judgements and to shame me for daring to defy her) for what she said to
me, I dont have any of these dysfunctional relationship problems with
my kids. I believe this is because I didnt treat them the way I was
treated in the first place. I did not place un-reasonable expectations
upon them. I did not discount their needs and squish their emotions. I
did not disrespect them, neglect them or define them as having lesser
value than myself. I am their mother and it is my job to fill them with
self-esteem and teach them self-love. I have not taught them that love
is compliance and obedience to me or to other adults. I have taught them
love by loving them. I do not expect them to respect what was
disrespectful. I taught them respect by respecting them, their needs and
their feelings. And what goes around comes around.
Please share your thoughts about this typical tirade from Nancy. Her
words are so commonly used against (adult) children. They are so
condemning and laced with guilt and shame. But they are not the truth.
When words like that have been used and heard since childhood, they are
accepted much more easily as truth, but the truth is very far from her
grasp. It is so important for adult children to see this.
Exposing truth; One snapshot at a time.
Darlene Ouimet
*The Emerging from Broken book*is ready for download! If you find that
the subject matter I am writing about resonates with you, get this book
today! This 197 page, downloadable, printable, live linked e-book will
put you on the fast track to healing. Get yours here through the upper
right side bar or click this link~ Emerging from Broken The Beginning of
Hope for Emotional Healing
<http://emergingfrombroken.com/emerging-from-broken-the-beginning-of-hope-for-em
otional-healing/>

Related Posts ~Emotionally Abusive Statements designed to Control

<http://emergingfrombroken.com/emotionally-abusive-statements-designed-to-contro
l/>
~ Brainwashing in Dysfunctional Family Systems
<http://emergingfrombroken.com/brainwashing-in-dysfunctional-family-systems-andthat-deep-down-feeling-of-unworthiness/>
Categories : Mother Daughter
<http://emergingfrombroken.com/category/mother-daughter/>
172 Comments
1
*Cheryl*
January 8th, 2013 at 1:16 pm <#comment-210932>
Nancys comments would almost be funny if they werent so disturbing and
wrong. It really is like abusive parents are given a script they read
from, since their words are so often the same. I heard most of that,
minus the bible references, when I was a child too. To this day I dont
think my father gets that I have no contact with him because of his
abusive behaviour. Its always someone elses fault. For a long time he
blamed my mother, then she left him and now I have no doubt he spreads
lies about whats wrong with me for me cutting him out of my life,
whats wrong with her for leaving him, etc. Never his fault.
He liked to spout a version of what goes around, comes around, but he
wont see that its actually true for him. I guess it makes sense when
you realize that these parents truly believe they have done nothing
wrong. Incredible.
2
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 1:36 pm <#comment-210942>
My son is an alcoholic and wont have anything to do with me after I
brought it up, when his wife was divorcing him. He was furious.
I didnt speak to my own parents for 20 years the first ten because my
mother put a ban on me after bringing up (again) my fathers sexual
abuse of me as a child, and the next ten because they all en-masse sent
me cards saying they forgave me.
Forgave me for what? For writing to my mother and father that if my
father sexually abused my niece who was going to stay with them and I
found out about it I would have him put in jail? I couldnt then but I
will now, if I hear that you laid a finger on that girl, if there is a
breath of wrongdoing I will pursue this to the end.
Now my son wont speak to me, after I dared to say that maybe he should
cut back on his drinking and treat his wife better if he didnt want her
to leave. What did I do wrong? He says You know what you did and until
you admit to it I have nothing more to say to you.
What the heck does that mean? But I cant help but feel that what comes
around goes around and somehow this is STILL all my fault. I will go to
my grave wondering what I did wrong and how I might have fixed it.
Nothing but nothing is right with my family and of course ALL fingers
are pointed straight at me, no matter how many years Ive been gone or

how many boundaries I draw.


Narcissism, Borderline Personality Disorder, OCD, Alcoholism,
prescription pill addiction, you name it, its in my college-educated
high-functioning family. And apparently its all my fault. I just got
blasted by my niece who I made the mistake of finally coming to trust,
and told that I should have made my amends to my mother long before she
died; no wonder she refused to see me on her death bed after more than
25 years.
I should have made amends to them.
It never ends. This woman you wrote about is just poisonous to the
extreme. But when people in my family veer back and forth nice one day
and extraordinarily cruel the next, I just feel like Im a basketball
being bounced from one end to the other. I stayed away for more than 25
years. Came back only when my mother was ill and dying. And look what it
got me. More pain than I know how to bear. With these people, it never
ends.
Its really as if they have no heart and no kind emotions. Empathy is
completely lacking, and they are always right and you are always wrong.
Its growing up in the crazy world of black and white and if they say
the sky is red, and not blue, you better agree! Or they will all come
after you en-masse. And they are happy drinking the Koolaid and angry
that I didnt! Thats what I think they are maddest about.
Narcissism and Borderline and Alcoholic Rageaholics and everything in
between. I find it very, very hard to live with this and know that there
is no hope with any of them and that I have to let them all go. I didnt
realize I harbored a secret wish that surely at my mothers deathbed,
all would be resolved and we would be one big happy family all over
again even though this NEVER happened, and NEVER WILL.
I am just devastated by the turn of events: my mothers refusal to see
me on her deathbed declared open season on me and they have all
stocked up with weapons and ammunition, and they dont hesitate to use
them. I am one by one trying to resolve things and as all my attempts
have failed I am cutting them off from communication with me. I did this
25 years ago and I have to do it all over again, but this will be the
last time. Im almost 63 and I am determined to spend my remaining years
in peace and solitude, not in a never-ending war with devils and demons.
With people who only want to be right and are ruled by their hateful
emotions, there is no middle ground and peace is not an option.
So its over and I tried my most painful best. Now I know why so many of
my sisters have been divorced over and over. How they ever convinced
anyone to marry them in the first place is beyond me. But I dont have
to be married to this family. I think I will change my name to remove
their name from my own family lineage. Then I might feel more free. I
know it starts within me and then without, but sometimes changing my
behavior on the outside first helps change it inside.
I read somewhere on this site that Peace is an inside job.
I always remember this, and what a wonderful way to put it. Thanks to
the person who posted it and to everyone else here. Gracias, amen.
PS: Im cutting down on posting, so if you dont hear back thats why.
But I still read everything and thank you all every day.

3
*Lolo*
January 8th, 2013 at 1:46 pm <#comment-210946>
Wow. When I began reading your blogpost, I was half afraid it was going
to be my own NM who wrote to you! (She has been no contact with me for
the last 18 months because I do not meet her needs or give her the
treatment she deserves. Thank goodness for that, because I wouldnt have
been brave enough to initiate it myself.)
Nancy sounds like an engulfing/enmeshing narcissistic mother. How can we
truly believe she did everything for her daughters benefit as a gift
of maternal love when so many strings are obviously attached to that
gift and her daughter is reviled for not being grateful enough. Ive
read that enmeshing mothers are like tar that you cant pick off, and
Nancy sounds just like that. (My own NM is a ignoring malignant
narcissist so I had a different experience.) It doesnt sound like
Nancy gave to her child from a pure heart or pure motives, or with her
childs best interests at heart. It sounds like Nancy decided what was
best for her daughter. Period. It sounds like her daughter tried and
tried to make Nancy understand, and Nancy saw it as rebellion.
Darlene, you and your children have a loving, accepting, open
relationship, and what goes around comes around. I have been a mother
with children-at-home years and years longer than I was a child-at-home
with my NM. The blinders fell off my own eyes when I realized this fact,
and I also realized I had never called my children names, bullied them,
raged at them, mocked them, taunted them, abused them, beat them,
confined them to their rooms for hours and hours a day for years and
years on end none of the things that defined my own childhood. I
realized AHA!! healthy, respectful, loving parenting CAN be done
because I DID IT! So did you, Darlene. All that just wait stuff is BS.
Just wait til you have kids well I did. (We did.) And we did great.
We did everything exactly OPPOSITE of our mothers, and we did great.
Also Nancy is wrong about the Bible. Im sure others will chime in on
this who know more than I do, but Jesus said If anyone hurt one of these
little children, it would be better that they were thrown into the sea
with a stone around their necks. He said let the little ones come to
me for they are the kingdom of heaven. He said anyone who has helped
the least of these belongs to Him.
I think abusive parents will have a lot to answer for not just here on
Earth. Throwing bible verses at your already abused children does not
make it better.
4
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 3:58 pm <#comment-210995>
Lolo wrote: I realized AHA!! healthy, respectful, loving parenting
CAN be done because I DID IT! So did you, Darlene. All that just wait
stuff is BS. Just wait til you have kids well I did. (We did.) And we
did great. We did everything exactly OPPOSITE of our mothers, and we did
great.
I wish to God with everything in me that this was the case with me and
my son. I belong to another website about parents estranged from their
adult children. None of us know what is going on, except that the

CHILDREN sound like BPD or Narcissistic abusers.


But when I read what Lolo wrote, I continue to torture myself all over
again. What did I do wrong? I dont drink due to the alcoholism in my
family, and my son grew up knowing this. I never berated him and was
there for him as much as possible, even as a single mother working and
going to school. If Darlene and Lolo could do things right for their own
children, in spite of their upbringing, why couldnt I?
I will carry this grief with me to my grave. In a million years I never
thought I would be estranged from my only child. All children love me
and always say they wish I were their mother. And its all I can do to
keep from crying because my only child wishes I wasnt.
5
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 5:05 pm <#comment-211019>
Hi Cheryl
Yes, I have come to realize that only the details change when it comes
to most of this stuff.
Thanks for sharing,
Hugs, Darlene
6
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 5:11 pm <#comment-211022>
Hi Lolo
Yes, that verse is so very rarely quoted though! I have noticed that the
most quoted vesrses are the ones that can be used to manipulate others.
So sad really.
Thanks for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene
Catherine
Soething that is important to realize about my life here is that I did
make mistakes and I WAS passing on my dysfunctional belief system to my
children. I may not have been the kind of abusive that my mother was but
I certainly didnt pass on a healthy belief system before I had one. It
has been over 8 years since I discovered the truth though, and I have
made a LOT of amends and lived up to those amends in this time. I hope
that helps. Please dont beat yourself up ~ it is so counterproductive
to healing and in the beginning I had such a huge mess to sort out.
Hugs, Darlene
7
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 5:46 pm <#comment-211035>
Dear Darlene, thank you so much for your response. I know I could not
have possibly passed on a healthy system to my son, and even though I
would not go to family reunions, I paid plane tickets for HIM to go! It
was probably one of the biggest mistakes of my life.
But I thought that he should not be denied a relationship with his
so-called family just because I was. I still thought at the time that
there had to be something so terribly wrong with me that my mother and
father hated me so, and taught my siblings to do the same

And my son learned to disrespect me by watching my own husband


disrespect me all the years we were together. I was never physically
abused (I would never have stood for that) but I didnt even recognize
the mental and emotional abuse that was going on and how I was
completely ignored and zeroed out for all of my adult life living with
him. So my son never did see a 50/50 supportive relationship growing up.
But I thought I was doing a good job because he wasnt beaten physically
or verbally.
We both did everything we could to support him in his activities,
schoolwork, college and more. He was never verbally abused, although he
learned it somewhere and repeats the same cruel things my father used to
say, practically word for word.
I dont feel sorry for them! They did it to themselves! They brought it
on themselves! They deserved it! and so on ad nauseum. He hates
everyone and everything and most of all himself. Hence the alcohol (or
is it the chicken or the egg?)
From reading the comments here, it seems like all of these abusive
individuals are reading from a script. But where do they get it? And
then I hear about all the good parents who raised their children right,
in spite of their own abusive upbringing, and they have children that
love them and what did I do wrong? That is what I am wracking my brain
over. Just like I had to accept that I had abusive parents, I now have
to accept that I have an abusive son. And I did NOT do this to him.
No way and No how. But everyone always blames the mother as if I was the
only person who had any influence over him, when in reality, I probably
had the least. And any suggestion from me that what he was doing wasnt
right was met with great anger and hostility.
He used to come home from high school and talk about all the girls who
were sluts in his class and wanted it. I actually had to ban
pornographic materials from the house and one of his friends who was
into all kinds of distasteful things as well as outright criminal activity.
My son is 40 years old and he still blames me for that. Ask him hell
tell you how dare I have banned his best friend from the house and
made him take back a misogynistic record album talking about berating
and raping women. How can he possibly think I would allow that in our house?
I am from the generation of women that made huge strides in womens
rights. He consorts with prostitutes. In the old days, he would have
been called a bad seed. But now its all on the mother and how the
child was raised. So yes, I apparently did not give him the right kind
of environment. But I dont see what I did wrong when other friends of
mine gave their children worse environments and their children are not
estranged.
No I am so tired of hearing about how I must have done something wrong.
Since when am I supposed to be the PERFECT ONE? It feels like I am
getting it from both sides. The one regret that I have in life is that I
became a mother. Every child alive wishes I were their mother, except my
own. And then I have to face the fact that I did not give him the right
kind of upbringing. Its just impossible.
8
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 5:50 pm <#comment-211037>

Im amazed that Im not held responsible for his alcoholism. I guess no


one dares say that since I dont drink and people are educated about
alcoholism being genetic. But I am so tired of hearing that I didnt
do something right, when so many children are raised in much worse homes
and they dont act the way my son does. Not at all. He was born a very
angry and unhappy child and nothing I did, despite dragging him to
doctors and counselors all his life who said it was my fault because I
was working to support us as a single mother at the time well, I
should have had an abortion or given him up for adoption. Thats what it
comes down to.
I know this discussion is not about estranged children, but I am just at
a loss to know what to do. Its too much all at once and Im not
supposed to be posting so much, so Ill give it a break again.
Thank you again for your response. But I dont think its my fault that
he made the choices he did. I made the choice to not drink and work on
myself. He didnt. And no one can force a grown person to do something
they dont want to do. No one holds the keys to self-will except for
THEMSELVES.
9
*Janie*
January 8th, 2013 at 6:54 pm <#comment-211069>
Darlene. thank you for saying that you had made mistakes, which got
better when you drew boundaries and asked for mutual respect. I also
nticed that when I was trying to squeeze myself into the dysfunctional
system, I treated my step kids with my exhusband differently.some of the
ways in which I had been treated, which I always felt guilty about. I
just thought that was the way it was done! I did get the chance to
apologize to both of these young men. And we talked about it. It was
left on good terms. With my signif others kids now,I do approach it much
differently, though I dont have such a prevelent role. It helps having
healthy modeling done by my guy, and all i have learned here and read
helps too! It is such an important role, being part of raising a child.
I try to fing the opportunities to build up and encourage. every chance
I can. Its not easy being a kid these days, especially having gone
through the division of their family of origin.
10
*Poodle*
January 8th, 2013 at 8:14 pm <#comment-211095>
Darlene,
I have been reading your articles since I found this website shortly
before Christmas. Thank you so much. What an amazing sense of pure
validation I have experienced from this uninhibited truth- telling! I
agree with the other comments about Nancy being an engulfing NM. It
doesnt surprise me that she is so one-sided because narcissistic people
never admit to any wrongdoing. I had the unfortunate luck of having a
narcissistic and physically and verbally abusive father with an ignoring
NM who focused solely on the needs of her husband to the detriment of
her children. I once stood up to my father after he beat me brutally at
the age of 16. He was in the military and I told him that if he ever hit
me again, he should just kill me because if I lived to tell about it, I
would go directly to his first sargeant. I meant it and he knew it. The
physical abuse stopped, but as you know, the abuse never ends! The real
show stopper came when my mother and brother heard what I had said. They

couldnt believe how disrespectful I was. Wow. Really? As an adult, I


have chased after my parents love to no avail. When I questioned my
parents about their utter lack of involvement in my life,I was met with
the enraged peacock response that Nancy so finely demonstrates to us
all. My adult relationship with my parents did well as long as I
complied with everything they wanted and expressed no needs of my own.
There were a series of falling outs that I experienced with them due
to my audacity (to have needs of any kind). Each time these occurred,
the pattern was the same: my mother would become enraged over some
perceived criticism then she would hang up on me and not call me back.
When I eventually called, she would rage at me, explore the many ways in
which I was disrespectful and ungrateful, make sure I knew she thought I
was mentally unstable, and then after much deliberating out loud, I
would be begrudgingly let back into the warped and wicked circle of
trust. I had an epiphany over 2 years ago when she last hung up on me.
I decided I couldnt do it again. I finally faced the fact that I have
two parents that really dont love me because they are unable to. It was
a hard pill to swallow, but I think you hit the nail on the head when
you said they (like Nancy) have never faced their own parental
unlovingness. I guess this makes us stronger. I have read self-help
books galore and still have really rough days, but it is good to be the
real me. I have made mistakes with my own children as well. It is hard
to parent when you never had an example, but breaking the cycle is what
I aim to do. Thank you for all of your encouragement, you are a blessing
to all (even Nancy).
11
*Janie*
January 8th, 2013 at 10:03 pm <#comment-211138>
Catherine, 7 and 8, I feel your anguish over your son! It sounds like
the nature vs nuture argument. Certainly, it has been proven that
alcoholism has a genetic component. My own friend did exactly as you,
not to drink d/t familial alcoholism, only to watch her own daughter
succumb to alcohol and drugs. You can not beat yourself up about this!
As far as narcissism and abusive personality being inherited, it would
be interesting what the research shows about that. Though I think that
some of us received love and support from our NMs and NFs parents and
siblings, our grandparents. aunts, and unclez, so where did our parents
dysfunction come from?
For me, it does not matter, I just flee from the badness, so to speak. I
want to feel peaceful and not let others dysfunctional, distorted
thinking drfine me.
I dont know what it is like to see and feel a child behave in this way,
as I have never been a real mom, so to speak. It must be very painful to
feel disconnected from him. We are not supposed to give advice, but do
you ever think about exploring playing a positive role in another child
or childrens lives? Volunteerism, mentoring? You seem to have alot of
beautiful maternal energy!
hugs,
Janie
12
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 10:27 pm <#comment-211145>
Janie, thank you so much for your understanding and compassionate words.
Finally, someone who understands! Im sorry to hear about your friend
and her daughter, and it at least lets me know its not all my fault,

as so many seem to think so.


I had to laugh when you talked about playing a positive role in another
child or childrens lives? Volunteerism, mentoring?
I work with a group of 25 to 30 indigenous Mayan women and their entire
families and all the children, and we do lots and lots for everyone
concerned. We sell their beautiful beadwork in the states through
AtitlanArts.com and I spend all my waking hours either trying to resolve
my own misery with my own miserable family, or working with the most
blessed families of these very poor Indians who are teaching me how to
pray.
I would say that the experience of being with these good people from the
Lake Atitlan, Guatemala area in Central America has changed my life
completely. The contrast between American life and the family I grew up
in, so devoid of heart and soul, and the richest life of the poorest
Guatemalan families whom I call of The Faithful has shown me that I
had just about everything backwards.
In fact, my own young assistant and business manager, another Mayan that
is educated and professional, is essentially my daughter now and she
is even in my will. When I contrast the difference between my
relationship with Delfia, who treats me like a loving daughter, and the
hatred and contempt my own son shows me, and I am the VERY SAME PERSON,
it just breaks my heart. But it is OPENING MY EYES.
I have actually thought about adopting Delfia (if you can adopt a 22
year old) and she is now in my will. She and her whole family have
essentially adopted me, and my life is all to the good because of it.
Anything I have done for them, they have repaid me ten fold. They are
teaching me patience, pardon and prayer, which is something that I NEVER
learned in my family of origin. I come from a military Catholic
background, that is nothing but rigid. Being with the Mayans has opened
up a whole new world and a new way of thinking. I have to remember this,
and even when it doesnt seem this way, progress IS being made. I just
have to be reminded every so often, like you just did today. Gracias!
There are plenty of Americans and Europeans where I live at Lake
Atitlan, due to the large ex-pat community and the 75 degree weather
year round and the very inexpensive lifestyle down there, so more and
more gringos (white people) are moving down there. We bring a lot of
good things and a lot of bad, including our Americanized attitudes and
the virus of consumerism. But I work for medical and educational
expenses for the Mayans artisans I work with, and I know I am doing some
small good. They say it is big.
I just wish my son would be a part of it and he and I would both be so
happy if he did. But he never will. He has to hang on to his beer and
hatred and grudges and for the moment, will never let go. How I raised a
child who ended up this way is the one regret that I will always have.
But the Mayans say Pray for him. Nothing is impossible for God to do
so that is what I do.
They live by three wonderful words that all start with P:
Patience, Pardon and Prayer.
I have added one more for me: Practice. And with that, they say all
will be well. And all will be well.

I have to remember this and I will. Thank you so much for reminding me
of this! If you want to know more about the indigenous Mayans, you can
take a look at another wonderful group that I help support:
MayanFamilies.org. They are putting more than 2,000 children through
school since school is NOT free in Guatemala, as it is not free in many
countries in the world.
I dont think I should really be posting info about my business or Mayan
Families, but I wanted you to see just where I volunteer. Its a
business, but its volunteering all the same, since I take no salary at
all. Gracias for the reminder that some things I do ARE actually good,
no matter what some of my family says. Thank you so much.
There is no hurt on earth that Heaven cannot heal.
Catherine Todd
PS: Im trying not to comment so much, since it was way out of hand and
I needed to take a break. So if you dont hear back right away, thats
why. Thanks to Darlene again for maintaining this site and everyone on
it. Its changing my life as much as moving to Lake Atitlan has.
Changing EVERYTHING, inside and out!
13
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 10:30 pm <#comment-211146>
Poodle, my
father for
when I was
and no one

whole entire family blacklisted me when I too stood up to my


beating me and sexually molesting me. I had to go to court
16 just to get out of that house as an emancipated minor,
has ever forgiven me for it.

Another friend said they all drank the Koolaid and I guess its true.
I have to remember to practice Patience, Pardon and Prayer. Not that I
will pardon them for what they have done, but I do ask God to forgive
them for that is Gods job, not mine.
And I laugh when as a friend of mine said, They are going to be outside
those pearly gates, sitting in a chair, with a whole lot of explaining
to do!
14
*smd*
January 8th, 2013 at 10:35 pm <#comment-211148>
wow great example of a controlling & manipulative mom! this can be my
mom. Recent talk which turned into a fight with mom, involved her
saying, never say I wasnt there for you, Im mean, & that she is the
parent, so I have to visit her. I saw her comments as truth leaks about
her need to control & manipulatein the past, I would have felt guilt
and shame, yet I m not to blame or responsible for her behaviorthis
was big to realize thisshe was trying to keep me in line with her
parent positionI m an adult & individual, which i did say calmly and
then, it doesnt have to be that way in response to going to her house.
this was after over extending myself by inviting both my parents to my
house for dinner over the holidays. Mom still holding my kids Christmas
presents.I know she blames this on me! I m not a doormat & when I
stand by my boundaries I m the mean onenot true at allthe truth is
she feels entitled to say aanything to get what she wants. now I m

getting the silent treatment. That is fine with meI m appalled by her
behavior & how she continues to withhold love to punish me. she takes no
responsibility for hurting me. I did send her Xmas gifts in the mail not
out of anger, but to let go with no strings attached, unlike her. I Don
t want to engage with her and if & when she calls I will let it go to
message. I need to protect & shield myself from the next attack. I don
t attack & I speak my truth. I m not the bad guy here. I m done
playing her games. used to stuff my thoughts & feelings to avoid
conflict, then when I started speaking my truth & setting boundaries,
they continue to see me as the problemno win situationAll I want is a
mutual & equal relationship. It s not that way and I m done trying
harder or better. I m choosing me & to love from afar. My intentions is
not out of hate. One thing I did say was I loved them & protected them
from knowing I was molested at 12. I was ashamed of myself to the point
of burying the truth even from myself. flashbacks in my 40 s made me
face it head oneven after sharing this sensitive & emotionally charged
info, no comfort just why didnt I tell her.She also told me not to
blame her. She is not capable of loving me by offering support or
kindness. that is rejection. I know I m capable because I loved her in
spite of not getting it. The last thing she said to me was I hated her,
how ironic that is! seeking her approval & love all my life is hate?????!!!!
15
*smd*
January 8th, 2013 at 10:42 pm <#comment-211151>
I wish these controlling & mean moms would heal themselves instead of
continuing to hurt their daughters!!!
16
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 10:47 pm <#comment-211156>
One good thing about Darlenes posting Nancys cruel, angry and
abusive comment, which this whole discussion is based on:
I guess looking at the difference between her and me, both with children
estranged from us, I must be on the right track. Dare I say something
good about myself? Im scared to do so, but I MUST. If its not true,
Im sure someone will set me straight. If it is true, then Im on the
road to recovery and will be able to one day, in this life or the next,
welcome him home with open arms.
But its Gods job to forgive, mine is just to let go of anger and hurt.
And the desire for vengeance, for that corrosive emotion is the root of
so many evils. I have only the desire at this stage for PEACE. I just
dont know how to find it with people that will not and do not want
peace; who still only want war. For that is all they know and that is
their hearts desire. Its not mine.
I dont hate my son in return, even though I too am very hurt by his
words, rejection and action. I dont blame him. I wish his life had been
easier emotionally for him, and I always look(ed) for ways I could make
it easier. If he ever has a real change of heart, a change of ways and a
change of mind, I would welcome him back with open arms. But even then,
I would not accept any abuse that might come with it. Those rules he
would have to respect. And I constantly look for ways of my own for
self-improvement, so as not to commit any errors as I must have done before.
This is a Gift of Estrangement. The love I have for my estranged son

will make me walk through fire, even to getting to a place of peace and
prayer that I also wish for him. And the estrangement we have gives me a
modicum of peace, no matter how sad it is. For when he was around, it
was hell on wheels almost all of the time. Everything I did made him
angry in some way, or he criticized, just as the parents we are all
talking about here. I am starting to believe that dysfunctional abusive
parents start out as children that way, and with my own son I can see
how it begins that way. I tried everything I could, and nothing took.
Now I am reduced to distance and no contact (his decision) and I am so
glad he did. I never would have had the strength to do it on my own.
These people never even think that the no contact rule will come into
play for them.
After reading comments here, I think his refusal to speak to me is yet
another punishment or payback for not doing everything the way he
wanted, when he wanted, without any consideration or responsibility
towards me. But this silence and rejection turns out to be the gift of
peace he have given me.
When it finally gets bad enough with anyone, family members or not, and
theyve crossed the line too many times, just like with an abusive
husband that everyone now knows we are supposed to leave, the same
response is starting to be applied to parents, siblings, adult children
and anyone who is a bully or abusive. The times they are a changin, and
it cant be too soon for me.
I thank God every day that my son has no children. I could never sit
back and watch him destroy his own children the way he has destroyed his
marriage, ex-wife or any girlfriends since. Alcohol and Anger are so
corrosive. Nothing can survive those two, and in combination: LOOK OUT!
Grace be to God for favors large and small.
Dear God please show us The Way. Amen.
17
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 8th, 2013 at 11:06 pm <#comment-211168>
smd: I know exactly how you feel. I am reading more and more about
Narcissim and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and all the
behaviors being described on this website seem to fall in this category.
And its unlikely they will ever change. They are always right and to be
damned with anyone who disagrees. Everyone who doesnt bow down and
cater to their every whim can go to hell as far as they are concerned,
and they dont hesitate to try and put us there.
I was very vocal about the sexual abuse when I was 15 and 16 years old
(and before that) and got legally released back then, even though the
judge couldnt jail my father at the time. She even said as much, that
He was the one who belonged in jail, not me, but she didnt have the
right to do so.
He and my mother were trying to have me put in a mental institution or
in jail for juvenile offenders because I was telling what he was doing
as nothing I did would make him stop. I was fighting him at every turn,
locking my door until he just took the door off the hinges and left it
leaning up in the hallway. Talk about jailers!
God protected me along with my three guardian angels (count em, three!)

and I didnt see it at the time. Not for a very long time, really.
And somehow later on I blocked it all out how could this be? But it all
came crashing down on me when I was almost 40. So you are not alone but
you are in good hands!
I dont go to church, but I believe in a spiritual world, and we are in
Good hands we are in Gods hands. Whatever and wherever that world of
the Divine which gives protection and comfort and peace to all
concerned. As long as we are not consorting with the enemy. And we all
know who the enemy is in these cases. NO ONE HERE is writing about
problems with coworkers, neighbors or friends.
Just imagine life without those negative, poisonous family members.
Wouldnt that spell P.E.A.C.E.?
Amen. Dear God please show us The Way.
18
*Janie*
January 8th, 2013 at 11:48 pm <#comment-211189>
Caatherine, I smiled as I read your response, as when my fingers typed
those words, I felt in my heart that you were already volunteering. I
just never dreamed your work was on such a large scale! Thats so
wonderful! I will surely check out your link.
Hugs,
Janie
19
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 4:56 am <#comment-211310>
Janie, in fact it was my relationship with Delfia and her family that
really showed me the difference between their family and mine. I
realized that I was the same person and just maybe, the conflicts
werent coming from me. They were coming from the Dark Side. The side I
grew up in. The family curse side.
Now I see that it revolves around Personality Disorders and Addictions:
Narcissism, Borderline Personality Disorder, Alcoholism, Prescription
Pill addiction, Hoarding, OCD, Anger and Rage. High intelligence doesnt
prevent these disorders from happening; in fact, many of my family has
very high intelligence and often these disorders are second nature to
intelligence. Isnt that strange?
But after years and years of negative indoctrination, especially during
my formative years, there is so much faulty thinking in my own mind to
undo. I love the expression Darlene uses: to see things now with a
different perspective, through the truth grid. What a difference this
is starting to make. What a difference in me.
Everything is being shaken up and it doesnt necessarily feel good
right now, but the jigsaw pieces are falling into place, after being
broken out of the poor and broken patch job that was one time done on me.
I think I am finally beginning to feel whole. I never knew what that
was before, but it has to be based on accuracy, health and love.
Acceptance of who and what I am, and I dont believe I am a bad person.
Its still hard when Im under attack, as I am right now, but if I go

no contact theres really nothing they can do to me anymore. So its


all up to me. And I will say my prayers every night and day.
Dear God please show me The Way.
20
*Angela <http://www.iampooped.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 7:04 am <#comment-211352>
My father was notorious for quoting the honor your father & mother
verses from the bible. My mothers favorite was the what comes around
goes around. Fact is, the bible talks about how parents should not
exasperate their children.
21
*Michelle*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:22 am <#comment-211377>
First, a big hug to whoever Nancys daughter is. Poor girl!
Darlene, not only did my mother love that saying, what comes around
goes around, she also loved the saying your mother used youll see or
youll understand when you have your own children. She also liked to
pre-warn me with her comment the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.
Thus warning me, best be good to me cause you will turn out just like me
and then youre children will be just as ungrateful as you. Ah, but my
all time favorite was when she flat out wished me to have children as
horrible as she viewed me to be. I hope you have a daughter just like
you someday, then youll know how it feels.
Anyways, her nasty little sayings worked on me. Not quite as she had
anticipated, but they worked. You see, I wasnt too scared of having a
child like me. But I was way too scared I would turn into a mother like
her. And so, I didnt have children. I loved my unborn children too much
to do that to them. And while, years later, with therapy and healing, I
see I was wrong and would have made a good mother, her words and damage
took effect all the same. At least the last time I ever saw her I told
her the truth as to why Id never had children. Didnt seem to phase
her. She probably just sat there thinking the same thing, too bad cause
Id like to see you pay with a daughter like yourself. . I dont wish
these people on anyone.
22
*Michelle*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:46 am <#comment-211391>
P.S. on re-reading Nancys post, I would also point out in true disgust
the opening, To all of you ladies that CLAIM abuse., thus invalidating
every single persons experience, of which she knows absolutely nothing!
Classic.
23
*Pam <http://www.boomerback-beat.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:56 am <#comment-211396>
Morning Darlene, What parents who love the use the Bible as a platform
for abusing their children, neglect, are all the parts of the Bible that
focus in on the parents responsibility in the parent/child
relationship. Parents are to raise their children in nurture and the
guidance of God. They are to train them to become the people God

designed them to be, not live through them. Discipline is to be loving


and strict enough to give a child security but never to force them into
a mold of the parents design. What came around here is that Nancys
abusive parenting provoked wrath in her daughter. Wrath is holy anger in
response to grave abuses. Im proud of Nancys daughter for presenting
her mother with the truth of their relationship and Im pretty sure God
approves too (He knows more about the situation than I do)because God is
always on the side of truth. In Nancys daughter, I see another who
cares about the pursuit of truth.:0)Im glad you published this comment.
It is a true snap-shot into the thinking of an abusive parent. It is a
picture worth at least, a million words!:0)
Love,
Pam
24
*Kate*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:00 am <#comment-211415>
ALL of Nancys underwear is showing!! She sounds like she has a toxic
support community of peers in church who all view their offspring in
this destructive ways. Holiday (holy days? more like holy shit
days)gatherings have more than driven this daughter where she doesnt
want to go. There is plenty that is NOT being said here.
25
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:01 am <#comment-211417>
Hi Pam
Good comments.
I always say equal value is not the same as equal authority when it
comes to the parent stuff. (NO boundaries and no guidelines with young
children is just as dysfunctional and damageing and is actually
neglect.) And I also say that the good doesnt cancel the bad. My mother
did lots of good things. I was fed properly, clothed properly, had a
warm house and good manners. But all the other things that I write about
in this blog happened too. The good stuff does not change the facts
about that other stuff and the whole point of healing is healing FROM
the damage.
Thanks for sharing Pam
Hugs, Darlene
26
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:04 am <#comment-211418>
Janie
That is awesome! and you said something really important; you talked to
them about it. Although our kids were young, (ages 7, 11 and 13) when we
began this whole process of healing, we talked to them too. We
apologized. We tried to make it right. And it took me a few years to
completly come out of the fog so I made mistakes in the healing process
too, but my kids saw that I was willing to hear them, see them, value
them and our relationship. They saw love in that.
Hugs, Darlene
27
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:08 am <#comment-211419>

Hi Poodle
Welcome to EFB
Wow, good for you! Your post (about your mother brother calling you
disrespectful) is a good example of the belief system I am talking
about. They they think YOU were disrespectful when in truth your father
should have gone to prison for what he did to you. In calling you
disrespectful, they are saying that he has a right to beat you OR to
do whatever the hell he wants to you. Which is not the truth at all!
Thank you for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene
28
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:12 am <#comment-211421>
Hi Sonia
My fav part of your comments is when you say I AM NOT THE BAD GUY
HERE. That is so self-validating and empowering. That was the truth (in
a nutshell) that led me out of the darkness and into freedom. That truth
can be a jumping off spot (to healing) in so many areas! We are dealing
with the damage here. The rest of your comment backs up the statement
that you are not the bad guy.
Thank you for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene
29
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:19 am <#comment-211425>
Hi Catherine
Yes, dysfunctional parents start out as children that way, that is why
it is called the cycle of abuse and that is why I so often talk about
healing from the damage. I used the fact that my mother had a terrible
childhood as the excuse to excuse her for many years. I had to finally
stop focusing on her and look at what had happened to me in order to
stop the cycle.
Hugs, Darlene
Hi Angela,
Welcome to EFB
Yes, and the bible also talks about equal value. (I believe that Christ
taught the original message of equal value and he spoke of children all
the time.)
Realizing how much people twist biblical teachings as a way to misuse
power and control was a big part of my healing too. There is a ton of
brainwashing in that system!
Thanks for sharing,
Hugs, Darlene
30
*Lea*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:20 am <#comment-211426>
My experience with my mother is different. I feel for people that have
to hear this garbage that Nancy said because my ex mother in law was
like that (after my divorce I had to threaten a restraining order). I
thank God that I had no children from my first marriage. But I dont
have to draw a line for my mother because I cant get her to talk to me
or spend time with me. Finally this year I drew a line, for myself, to

stop putting myself out there for her to disappoint. The rare times she
asks if I want to do something or says she wants to come over she always
backs out. Then I later discover that she went somewhere else with
someone else instead, typically one of my sisters. The only time I see
her is at family functions where my family and I are invited by default
or a function I invited her to and her absence would be noticed. So this
year I will no longer be the person she makes plans with just in case
something better doesnt come along.
Of course it wasnt always like this. It wasnt until I moved out of the
house and was free to live my own life and make my own decisions that we
started drifting apart. While I lived with her I lived by her rules and
rarely argued with her, even when I thought she was wrong. I couldnt
wait to move out. When I went to college (I paid my own way) I only came
home for a few holiday breaks and one summer before I realized that I
couldnt have that freedom and then just come back home and give it up.
So I found places to stay off-campus and got jobs so that I wouldnt
have to go home. Even though I was a good kid that became a successful
adult, I think I am a disappointment to her as a person. The topics we
disagree on are to fundamental to who I am. I wont hate my father
anymore for him leaving us as a child. Im not racist and I wont be one
just to appease my parents/grandparents. My husband is of African
American descent and we have a beautiful daughter together. I just wont
make decisions based on what makes my parents/grandparents happy, not
embarrassed,etc. So Ive come to the conclusion that my mother just
doesnt like me. She and her parents see me as selfish because I place
what I want in my life over what they want for my life.
It is probably for the best that they make no effort to be part of my
life or life of my family.
31
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:24 am <#comment-211427>
Hi Michelle
Oh yes the apple doesnt fall far from the tree one!!! I heard that too!
It is as though these people believe (and are teaching) that children
are just plain bad. It is so insane to belive that! Everyone in the
world was a child first! My mothers little saying worked on me too; that
is what half this site is about! :)
I too was terrified of having a child. My first child was born when I
was in my thirties.
And when I became an adult, my mother was very fond of saying I know
you dont like to hear this Darlene, but you are a lot more like me then
you care to admitt, and that would make me CRINGE mostly in FEAR that it
might be true.
Great comments Michelle, thanks for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene
32
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:45 am <#comment-211438>
Hi Lea
Welcome to emerging from broken.
That is great the you drew the line for youself. This site is about
healing from the damage and the only way we can see and validate the

damage is to see the truth, which is what you are expressing here! When
you say they dont like you because they see you as selfish, for me I
had to find the true definition of selfish, in order to stop believing
that my mother was right about me that way. I am not selfish, I am not
self-centered, and her calling me those things just kept me trying
harder to prove she was wrong. I gave that up when I saw the truth. Your
mother didnt show much interest and that is how it is with my father.
About 2 years ago I drew that line for me with him.
Thanks for sharing!
hugs, Darlene
33
*randominsomniac*
January 9th, 2013 at 2:07 pm <#comment-211516>
I came on your site today to find some information about Mind Control
and manipulation, and this article is exactly right!
I was just reading S.M.A.R.T.s pages on Mind Control including about
emotional manipulation
thank you so much!
34
*Alaina*
January 9th, 2013 at 2:07 pm <#comment-211517>
This is the kind of abuse my mother has yet to acknowledge as wellthe
smothering, enmeshing stuff. I believe that, like Nancy, she also sees
it as love and being a good mother. Its possible she saw it as a way to
make up for having been mean to me when I was a younger kid. Nancy says,
Get over yourselves. My mother says, I hope one day youll come to
peace with your past. Abusers may all be following the same script but
mine is more bureaucratic? Its frustrating. Im waiting still to hear
from her (and my dad) but I dont expect anything much different than
what Ive already received. I have very much sensed that they are still
dysfunctional and so it doesnt even seem logical to imagine something
different suddenly popping up out of nowhere. Yes, they can do the work,
and heck maybe they will do the work, but Im wondering lately how
healthy it is for me to keep on with this dialogue. If they still dont
get it, how much more energy do I keep on giving/investing into
clarifying? Its been good for me in that Ive come closer and closer to
my truth and am getting much better at expressing it and how I feel,
etc. But Im tired and frustrated and want to move on with my life. I
was never able to live properly. I missed out on the vast majority of
the stuff people go through during their teens and 20s. Ive finally
realized that there was never anything wrong with me, that I wasnt some
defective character who wasnt capable of being a part of the world (as
I think my mother at least unconsciously wanted me to believe so that I
would need her and not leave her) and that the problems I have had in
life in the outside world were totally the result of what was done to
me, how I was treated, and the isolation I took on (or that I was pushed
into) as my primary means of coping. The trouble Ive had integrating
myself into the world is the trouble anybody would have in these
circumstancesin fact, Ive probably done pretty well all things
considered. It has nothing to do with my personality, as my family would
have me believe. Im just so tired of being focussed on trying to deal
with my family. I feel like bitterness is going to set in (more so). Im
young (31 in a few months) but I feel time slipping by and theres only
so much energy to put into things. I see people my age with careers,

getting married and having kids. I have a job I enjoy but I havent been
able to do what Im passionate about. I have a very small amount of
friends who dont live where I do. And forget marriage and kids, I see
people holding hands and wonder what that feels like. Im capable of
living. Im capable of communicating and having real relationships with
people. I know this now, so how much more time spinning my wheels in the
mud for the sake of Family when its because of their dysfunction that
Ive lost out on much of life? You make peace with the past through
knowledge and acknowledgement of the past. You cant move forward
otherwise. I dont want to let my family hold me back from living the
life I want to live. There are far too many Nancies in the world.
35
*Caden <http://proudlysensitive.wordpress.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 5:23 pm <#comment-211600>
Nancy does sound like my mother. If she really wasnt a toxic, abusive
person then she wouldnt have become so when her daughter drew a
boundary. Apparently she sees no irony in her reaction, and neither did
my own mother. Claiming you never hit your kids and then indicating you
beat them with rods via that verse is so insane. My mother also
exclaimed, I never hit you! when in fact she had according to many
definitions of the word, and whether she believed that corporal
punishment was violence or not, I know it is.
She kept saying wait until you have kids as if she had no
responsibility whatsoever for either choosing to have children without
working through her own issues first and then sexually, physically, and
emotionally abusing them while claiming that we harassed and hurt
her so much. This phrase wrongly presupposes that children oppress their
parents when it is the other way around. But I couldnt have told her
wait until you have parents since she had already had them and chose
to take their side instead of her own.
And she always said it with the plural, as in kidS. After having
survived extreme sibling abuse (sanctioned both directly and indirectly
by our parents,) I would never raise more then one child at a time. My
mother also used the line that she had made mistakes, but naturally
they were just to be excused and she would continue dictating the status
quo which would now be that she be given sympathy for her mistakes.
Beating a child is not a mistake, sexually abusing a child, screaming at
them constantly, or abandoning them to others who do those things is not
a mistake, its a crime. Im boiling over from such a deep wellspring of
anger at her placid, self-righteous way of viewing what she did.
36
*Michelle*
January 9th, 2013 at 6:53 pm <#comment-211649>
Caden, thats what my mother said to the last time I saw her, its not
like i beat you with a belt. What the !$*%#! ? Ummm, that was exactly
what you used to hit me with, a belt!!! Oh, and a hairbrush if that was
nearby. And whatever else you could get your hands on. Serious reality
distortion and denial, one of many personality disorder traits. But,
Caden, you forgot to add in my favorite response after sure I made
mistakes, which Im sure followed that But I did the best I could..
Excuse me while I go stick my head over the toilet.
37
*SMD*

January 9th, 2013 at 8:00 pm <#comment-211665>


Darlene,
After talking to a friend about the interactions Ive had with my mom
over the Holidays, Im bothered by a few things she said. She said, my
mom may not know my intentions & I need to be direct with her. Im
confused. I was direct about my intentions over the Holidays, and my mom
knew I wanted her at my house. My mom still controlled & manipulated me
by telling me when to go to her house & still withholding my kids
presents. I know that I set my boundaries by not giving into what she
wanted and I do feel empowered by that! I also asked for a mutual &
equal relationship with no acknowledgement. My friend says Im cutting
her off by not talking to her now. Well, with all the control &
manipulation, why should I?! & I dont have to explain myself to my mom
by contacting her again. This will not resolve anythingWhat is there to
resolve anyway???? My actions speak for themselves- invited my parents
over during the holidays, mailed her gifts from her grandchildren and
sent a lovely card with no strings attached. It wasnt out of control or
anger either. It was to continue a relationship then when she controlled
and manipulated, I decided to let go out of self respect & love for me.
I know Ive mentioned all of this in another comment, yet why do the
comments from my friend bother me so? Maybe she not really understand
Narc abuse? She has a very similar family, however she says shes been
where I am in her 20s and she is also in her 40s now like me.
I dont understand where she is coming from??
Sonia
38
*Poodle*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:05 pm <#comment-211667>
Yes the best ones I recall are we did the best we could and we were
just kids having kids, because these explain their CONTINUED
dysfunction, right? saying something enough times in an attempt to
rewrite history is gaslighting, a famous ploy to manipulate the abused
into thinking that theyre the crazy one!!
39
*Poodle*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:21 pm <#comment-211673>
Lea,
Your experience with your mother resonates with me. My parents are
retired and live an hour away from me but have not been interested in
being involved with their own grandchildren. Growing up, they were never
involved in my life either but somehow I thought it would be different
with their grandchildrennot so. When I was still in contact with them,
they would often breeze into town and breeze out without calling so they
could avoid being inconvenienced with a visit. Sometimes I would even
run into them in a store. Awkward!
40
*TryingToHeal*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:29 pm <#comment-211681>
Oh gosh.do you know what this article reminded me of.words of
comfort I received from my family when my husband, without warning,
walked out on me the day after xmas 5 years ago and basically left me
homeless, without any material possessions, but more importantly he left
my soul a devoid and barren wasteland. In short, I was completely and

utterly devestated. If I heard it once, I heard it 1000 times.oh, just


dont worry dear, what goes around comes around, and hell get his.
Well, as far as I know he is now remarried and doing just fine, although
I have had no contact with him in over 4 years. What it makes me think
about is maybe a more comforting way to approach someone going through a
traumatic loss such as this might be saying something like, You didnt
deserve what he did to you. He was wrong to treat you in such a
dismissive and cruel manner. You are a kind and valuable human being
who deserves much better than what he gave you.
It just make me chuckle when I think the best my family of origin could
give me was what come around goes around.hell get his in the end.
Well, I guess he did. He got a new wife and a new life. I still aint
got squatbecause I have no self worth. Still trying though. Thanks
again for your support Darlene; Healing one day at a time.
41
*Michelle*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:38 pm <#comment-211687>
Smd, this was just the discussion at another forum I frequent. There are
many reasons friends say these things, but none of them are ok. They are
invalidating and unhelpful. When I have friends that make similar
comments, I decide if its from a good place in their heart or not. If
its not, they are no longer my friend. If it is, I recognize them to be
psychologically wounded and unaware. I continue the friendship, but
never discuss the matter with them again. They cannot help you because
they are wounded themselves and handling things in an unaware way,
usually denial. And they may cause you further harm. So again, if they
have a good heart, they remain my friend, but the topic is off limits.
42
*SynthGirl <http://www.synthiamasters.com/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 8:51 pm <#comment-211692>
I am sorry that Nancys comment struck such a chord. I think you have
handled this well, and the load of comments you got prove that you are
regarded very highly in the online community. I am glad I came upon your
blog
The cliche most often used on me personally was, It hurts to be
pretty. It made me never want a daughter. But what comes around does
NOT go around we have a CHOICE! We can decide whether to break the
chain of abuse or continue it. AND we can even decide whether to see
ourselves as deprived and use the abuse as an excuse, or we can grow
despite the absence of retribution.
Something beautiful My son just graduated valedictorian from a small
accelerated high school. The theme of his speech was, We CHOOSE who we
are. As his mother and an adult survivor of severe ritualistic,
physical, and sexual abuse, I think I can say it is possible to not only
break the chain, but pass on GOOD things as well. Who needs for it to
come back around when you can pay it forward?! 
43
*TryingToHeal <http://none/>*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:42 pm <#comment-211733>
I have to ask a question, just out of curiosity. Not sure if it relates
to this post exactly, but this evening I went to a very small family
gathering which consisted of my elderly mother and a sister, niece and

an sisters husband. Since gaining the awareness that I have through


self reflection and this website I am finding that being around the
unchecked dysfunction that is my family is extremely difficult. I feel
the dysfunction as if it is a ominous, thick dark fog that hangs in the
air. I can no longer even pretend that Im a part of it, now that my
blinders are falling off. I believe what really makes it feel horrible
is the fact that I went to my mother when I was first making the
connections between the family dysfunction and my broken-ness. She
poo-pooed everything I said, and would just say, you need help. You
need a therapist. Although, what I thought I was doing was trying to
help myself, she viewed my awareness as further evidence of my mental
illness. I really dont know if I will ever be able to comfortably be
around my family again. Has anyone else had this experience? Its quite
difficult, being that my family is all I have ever known. I really have
no friends outside my adult siblings. My marriage ended long ago. Its a
creepy and difficult place to be. Your thoughts would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
44
*Michelle*
January 9th, 2013 at 10:58 pm <#comment-211740>
Trying, My experience with my mother was to attack EVERY single one of
her children that went to therapy for being crazy. Factor in her belief
that psychology and therapists were all quacks, never mind everything
in our house was supposed to be hush, hush, so anyone who told had
violated that rule was ostracized. Therefore, my oldest doctorate
brother was obviously crazy, my phd psychologist brotheralso crazy, my
sister (well, she actually, never mind not the point) also crazy. I was
the only one who bought into mothers craziness for 42 years, and
didnt seek any therapy. Hey, she never told me I was crazy. But guess
who still actually needed help. (Yes, thats me waving a big here I am
sign).
What you just described is par for the course. Are you crazy? Well they
are crazy making, so we certainly need help recovering. Does that make
you crazy? NO!
45
*Cheryl*
January 9th, 2013 at 11:28 pm <#comment-211756>
TryingToHeal, I can relate to what you have written. I was visiting
family over Christmas and it came out in a very blunt way that I am not
considered to be a part of the family. Ive been treated this way by
them for awhile, but the way it was so blatant this time was stunning. I
had brought a friend with me and I later told him it seemed I was so low
on the family totem pole, I must be on the part thats buried
underground. He said they act like Im actually on a different totem
pole altogether.
It was a revelation that a non-family member could see them more clearly
than I did. And to find out that in their eyes I am worth less than a
child abuser. I have been keeping my distance from them during the last
year anyway, but what they said and did made me really think about
cutting them out of my life altogether. The only thing that stopped me
so far is wanting to be around for my nephew, as he suffers from their
emotional abuse and I want to help him. But I dont think I really can.
However Im absolutely not experiencing this as a creepy or difficult

place to be. The day after I left them, I was busy at work when the most
amazing feeling of freedom came over me. Out of the blue. Suddenly so
many possibilities came to mind, of things I could do in my own life. I
had never felt anything like it. It lasted for a week, until I spoke to
them again. I was supposed to be talking to my nephew only, as it was
his birthday, but somehow the rest of the family had to get in on it,
and then they made sure to come between him & I.
I havent got the feeling back but they cant take away the memory of
it, or stop me from following through on new plans. I used to be worried
and afraid of cutting them all out, but now its something Im very much
looking forward to finalizing!
I wonder if the idea of stepping away from your family will feel better
as more time passes. I never thought for a moment I would feel this good
about freeing myself from mine, but its happened.
46
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 12:21 am <#comment-211776>
Dear Cheryl, I really loved reading your post:
I havent got the feeling back but they cant take away the memory of
it, or stop me from following through on new plans. I used to be worried
and afraid of cutting them all out, but now its something Im very much
looking forward to finalizing!
This is so special, and so true! I am going to keep this in mind for
another relationship I am trying to separate from (at least mentally).
You put it so well! I never thought about looking forward to
finalizing the cutting of the chord, but this is just the song I needed
to hear.
Gracias! Amen.
47
*Poodle*
January 10th, 2013 at 5:16 am <#comment-211915>
TryingToHeal,
I think it is hard to go back into the darkness when you are already in
the lightyour blinders have fallen off, but your family still has
theirs on. I like Michelles comment about crazy making. After trying to
connect the dots with my mother in a similar fashion, she (in her famous
angry peacock pose) said to me have you gotten the mental help you need
yet? And like Michelles family, psychologists are considered quacks
and are not trusted in our family. What she really meant was something
is wrong with you, you are crazy and defective. This is simply one more
way of avoiding any responsibility. Your discomfort about being around
your family is like minewe are no longer drinking the koolade (thank
you Catharine), it feels good to be away from the exposure to TOXIC, do
we really want to ruin our healing and be set back by another exposure
in our fragile state? I say protect your heart and that you ARE healing.
48
*Dawny*
January 10th, 2013 at 5:37 am <#comment-211925>
Dear Trying to Heal,

Your comments about people saying he will get his in the end really
reasonated with me as I have been told that also. I found it irritating
to say the least. I hope on day you are able to feel, like I have come
to feel, that his punishment is that he doesnt get to spend his life
with me.
49
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 7:39 am <#comment-211974>
Hi Alaina
It is frustrating when the abuse is more covert. My father in law was
very very obvious in his tactics and in the fact that it was his way or
the highway. When I started to come out of the fog it was him that I
saw clearly (as abusive) first. Then I began to see my mother a while
after that. I saw my father clearly several years later and he was the
covert, passive abuser. Much harder to get clarity with that type.
I got tired of being focused on them and that was a new level of
healing for me. I realized that I had spent way too much time trying to
get them to see where I was coming from when they didnt care about
where I was coming from. They dont think they need to do anything. I
was so afraid to walk away in case that was the day that they suddenly
changed. But today I realize that they know where to find me. They have
a choice. The pain that cut so deep was that they dont want to do their
work on OUR relationship and that communicates the message that I am not
worth it a message that I realized was not new to me. On an upnote,
there ARE parents who DO listen, but it doesnt depend on the child
begging and pleading, it depends on the parents willingness to sort
things out.
One more note: After a couple of years of going through the process as
far as my marriage was concerned, I told my husband that I was done
trying to explain to him the problems with the way he regarded me in our
marriage; that he would have to figure it out himself or I was done. And
that was when he changed. That was when he knew that I was serious.
Hugs, Darlene
Hi randominsomniac
Welcome to emerging from broken,
I am glad that you like the article.
hugs, Darlene
50
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 7:46 am <#comment-211977>
Hi Caden
Great connections Caden!
Your second paragraph is what I have been thinking about trying to write
about lately; that the things these parents say indicate that they
really have no responsibility in the way that the kids are is just the
way kids are! Like kids ARE the problem no matter what. And I find that
everywhere; bully programs never seem to look at where these kids
learned bullying in the first place. Kids LEARN how to have
relationship, they are not born bad.
Thanks for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene
Hi Sonia

Something that helped me was when I realized that most people are
sharing from thier own grid of understanding and what they say to you
isnt always about you, but about them and that is where they are coming
from. Perhaps she is avoiding looking at her own relationships when she
tells you stuff like that.
Hugs, Darlene
51
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 7:53 am <#comment-211981>
Tryingtoheal
And that brings me back to what we are doing; we are trying to heal from
the damage. When people say dont worry dear, what goes around comes
around; and he will get his ~ THAT is not helpful and it is dismissive.
That is so unsupportive. That is like saying oh well, get over it and
lets move on now. You needed emotional support.
hugs, Darlene
Synthgirl
Welcome to EFB
Yes, we have a choice; I didnt know that until I was in my 40s because
of the way that I had been raised to believe that I didnt have a choice
~ realizing that was a big step in the healing process for me!
That is awesome about your son!!! What goes around (positive) comes back
around too!!
Hugs, Darlene
52
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 7:59 am <#comment-211983>
Trying to heal
This is what happened to me and what happens to many and this is the
fear that rules so many and keeps people stuck in dysfunction. The fear
of being alone. Everything changed when I began to see the dysfunction
clearly. As I grew healthier, I attracted and was attracted to healthier
people. I realize how much accepting and trying to accept dysfunction as
normal interfered with my entire life. It was exhausting. But I found
out that there is a whole other world out there!
Hugs, Darlene
Cheryl,
For me things get better and better as time passes but I dont think it
is because of the distance between myself and dysfunctional family and
inlaws, I think it is because the longer I live in the truth, the more
free and whole that I am!
Hugs, Darlene
53
*Kate*
January 10th, 2013 at 8:08 am <#comment-211988>
Why would I want to listen to my mother now that I am grown and have the
power and the choice to leave? Why give her the satisfaction that she
still has that power over me? Why would I want to hear those (and more)
manipulative lies again? Wasnt it enough that she stole from me what
she stole in my youth? Why give her more?
54

*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*


January 10th, 2013 at 8:11 am <#comment-211991>
Hi Kate
All those questions are answered within the pages of this website. The
answers to those questions were a big part of the way I found my freedom
and wholeness.
Hugs, Darlene
55
*Kate*
January 10th, 2013 at 8:33 am <#comment-212002>
For me, living in the truth means I put distance between me and narcs; I
am free.
56
*Pam <http://www.boomerback-beat.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 8:35 am <#comment-212004>
Kate, I agree but there are many who would say that it is wrong for you
to disconnect from your mother and destroy that relationship. However,I
know from simular experience that it wasnt me who destroy the
relationship. It was my parents who destroyed it. My decisions to
disconnect only made that broken relationship visible in its true state.
Pam
57
*Kate*
January 10th, 2013 at 9:40 am <#comment-212033>
When the words change and the behaviors stay the same, dont get lost
in the words.
58
*smd*
January 10th, 2013 at 10:18 am <#comment-212051>
Darlene, thanks for your perspective. I do belief she avoids certain
truths about her family. My friend was trying to be helpful & she s
coming from a different place. I m not going to take her advice. I m
sticking to my truth, which involves letting go. Thanks I feel better now :)
59
*Marore*
January 10th, 2013 at 10:21 am <#comment-212053>
Hello, Darlene..Wow! Just. Wow.
Sounds like a fairly typical tirade from yet another
personality-disordered person. People with personality disorders never
ever seem to have one tiny iota of introspective ability..ever. All
things are always someone elses fault. And PD parents are notorious for
constant blaming and shaming of their offspring. Sad, but true. I speak
from personal experience.
Its always interesting to me how God is used in such arguments to
prove that a parent is justified is his/her heinous behavior. It
seems that there are some people who truly do believe that anything and

everything is acceptable when it comes to child-rearing, and that


includes all types of physical abuse as well as emotional and verbal
abuse. Actually, spiritual abuse is also quite common with disordered
parents. Using God in such a way as to instill fear in a child is a form
of spiritual abuse. I am familiar with the ramifications. I still to
this day fear God unnaturally, and I find it difficult to trust Him at
all. If he is anything at all like either of my parents (one of whom is
a very self-satisfied Christian), then I really dont want to know Him.
Isnt it interesting how this woman is so quick to judge us? She knows
none of us personally, and probably has not read much of our own
personal stories. She shows no interest whatsoever in any of us as
individuals, not does she have an inkling of empathy. All she does is
spew out her anger and rage, blaming and shaming.
And people like her are downright frightening. They really are. A parent
who acts like this probably acted this very way toward her own daughter,
not once but on numerous occasions. I dare say that her daughter has
seen this type of rage before, most likely whenever the daughter dared
to oppose her or to speak up for herself or to establish boundaries.
Narcissistic mothers, in particular, cant stand children who stand up
to them.
Im no clinical psychologist, and of course I cant diagnose someone,
but whenever I see comments such as this womans, I think about what
Ive read and I think about my own personal experience with a
narcissistic mother. I think its extremely significant that she says
that her daughter said that her mother was so wrapped up in living
THROUGH her daughter and by having her daughters successes be a
reflection of HER. Wow. That is exactly what narcissistic mothers do.
Just saying
Also interesting is the old adage she spouts, Your parents did the best
they could. No, some parents dont do the best they can do. In fact,
some parents are so wrapped up in themselves that they give their
children little to nothing of what children need in order to flourish in
life. Some parents are cold-hearted, some are selfish, some are
addicted, some are personality-disordered. So, no, she is wrong. Not all
parents work hard to learn how to be good parents. Some dont really
love their children at all. I can attest to that personally.
Note how she uses put-downs. She says, Get over yourselves. What does
that mean, exactly? Its nothing more than a patronizing comment, a
judgment. Its only used by people who dont have convincing arguments
but who resort to personal attacks. Ive never understood what Get over
yourself is suppposed to mean. I think it means, Shut up..I have no
interest whatsoever in your life, your feelings, your struggles.
Then she says that we should all stop our whining. Who was whining? I
never whined about my parents. I have talked about their cruel
abusiveness, but I cant recall ever whining. I dont recall reading
anyones comments here and thinking that someone was whining. Ive seen
very astute comments, very insightful. Again, this woman is simply
spewing out her venom and rage. She doesnt care what shes saying,
really. Its all for effect.
You know, the sad fact is that there are people in the world who think
exactly as this woman does. Sometimes people in our own families will
say similar things to us. I dont know what they think theyre

accomplishing. All theyre doing is hurting us further. I stay away from


such people now. Who needs such crap from anyone? I certainly dont.
None of us do.
This woman is unwilling to look at her own behavior. When my daughter
speaks, I listen. I take what she says to heart. Were she to be critical
of some aspect of my parenting, or were she to share some painful memory
of something I did, I would listen..I would careI would sincerely
apologizeI would ask what I could do make up for it, if possible
(counseling together, etc.)..and I would do all of this NATURALLY,
because I love her to pieces. And I respect her. I dont just hop into
defensiveness, which is exactly what this woman is doing. Why is she so
defensive? Hmmmm
And, finally, she acts as if all children grow up to have a gigantic
AHA! moment in which they look back upon their childhoods and now
understand why their parents treated them like shit!
Well, I never once ever treated my children like garbage, or like
possessions, or like marionettes, or like appendages. Therefore, now
that theyre grown, we all have a mutually respectful and loving
relationship. They can look back upon their childhoods and know that
their mom loved them and that she never verbally abused them or shamed
them or beat them or slapped them around.
The poor womans argument fails on all counts.
Sad. Sad for her daughter, I should say.
Darlene, what an interesting topic. Im glad you shared it with us.
Love,
Marore
60
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 11:29 am <#comment-212081>
Hi Marore
Great comments and insights! I especially love your sentence; *And,
finally, she acts as if all children grow up to have a gigantic AHA!
moment in which they look back upon their childhoods and now
understand why their parents treated them like shit! * I love this
take on it! I mean REALLY??!!
I think that this attitude (Nancys) is the only way that these kids of
parents can reconcile themselves with the acceptance of the relationship
that they have/had with thier own parents. Did you read the post I wrote
about the father who shot is kids laptop to prove a point to her? More
than half of the comments that supported him on the video he made,
defended abusive parents. (they didnt call it abuse they said stuff
like My parents beat the shit out of me and I needed it!) yikes. That
is scary!
Hugs, Darlene
61
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 11:31 am <#comment-212083>
P.S.
in much of the world what Marore said is exactly what adult children are

TRYING to do; to have an aha moment and finally understand why their
parents treated them so poorly. Not many of them are trying to do what I
did which is just see the truth for what it was.
hugs, Darlene
62
*Karen Ranes*
January 10th, 2013 at 11:50 am <#comment-212090>
TryingTo HealI had the same experience. 5 years ago, when I started to
look for why I was so upset all the time and couldnt cope day to day I
discussed it with my Mom of course.
She always felt that I was genetically bad having inherited my
fathers families bad emotional makeup or that I had learned my angry
emotional state from my Dad, her words my learned behavior. Since I am
viewed as over emotional, unable to cope normally and act crazy,
seeking treatment for my mental illness was a positive step to them.
When I started to see the connection to my abusive family and tried to
discuss it..she said, we didnt know about any of this stuff in the
60s. Talk about denial.
In other words, I was born crazy and no one understood why I was crazy
so they just coped with my defect as best they could.
Thats exactly how she explained it to me.
What? People werent loving towards their children in the 1960s? Ah but
when my brother (her GC) started having problems in early teen years she
took him to counseling. So she understood the abuse was damaging, she
just didnt apply that to her crazy daughter.
Yup I was hit with a hairbrush, the fly swatter or just slapped. My Dad
strapped me with a leather belt, just once, at her bidding when I was 8.
He was more of a screamer than a hitter.
I was thrown out on the street at 18 when I stood up and said NO MORE
quite disrespectfully. But even though I have been married 39 years, had
a respectable life, with jobs and accomplishments, I am still viewed as
crazy by my family.
Alaina:
What you said is also true and I just began to see how this also applies
to me;
{{ I was never able to live properly. I missed out on the vast majority
of the stuff people go through during their teens and 20s. Ive finally
realized that there was never anything wrong with me, that I wasnt some
defective character who wasnt capable of being a part of the world (as
I think my mother at least unconsciously wanted me to believe so that I
would need her and not leave her) }}
They did not want me to ever move out or even have a car. I was driven
when I went to work.
My mother used me as a housekeeper and servant, as she always had
something (scam) going on that she needed someone to cover for herI was
as young as 8 when this started. She was always manipulating and
stealing and lying and she thought she was so much smarter than everyone
else. But the auditor at the bank was smarter than she was. But thats
another story.
63

*SMD*
January 10th, 2013 at 1:33 pm <#comment-212129>
Michelle,
Thanks for responding to my problem with my friend. Your answer did help
me to see that she is coming from a different place than me and her
family dynamics are similar yet she deals with them differently. Im
going to limit sharing my family problems with her since she isnt
validating my choices. Lesson learned and I have other support here and
in counseling. Mixed messages are confusing, so Im not going to seek
the validation in the wrong people/places. This is a pattern for me. I
already know where I need to go for support. Thanks for your take on
this. Have a Good Day :)
Sonia
64
*Alaina*
January 10th, 2013 at 3:27 pm <#comment-212164>
Thank you so much for your reply, Darlene! I really appreciate it.
Thats the thingthat they dont think they have to do anything, that
whats done is done and Im supposed to just make peace with it. The
power dynamic remains totally intact. My stance with my parents has been
that Ive taken all this time, energy and money to do my work to
understand what happened to me, and they should have been able to do
that, too. After a series of communication, they said theyd write me in
the new year, so I guess in anticipation of whatever theyre going to
say, Ive been having all sorts of imaginary arguments/conversations in
my head. Im trying to focus myself but its easier said than done.
Similar to you, I think maybe I believe that theres some perfect
combination of words that would trigger their understanding and the day
I give up is the day I might have found those words. I have a feeling
that my reoccurring writers block with my novel has a lot to do with
thisfear of not being able to ever get those words, or conversely, fear
that I will but it wont matter But I know its not really about words.
You dont need the perfect words. You just need a net to catch the truth
and I already have They claim to care about me and maybe they do but
no, it wouldnt be an unfamiliar feeling if they choose not to do the
work because they already made that choice not to do the work many times
before. When I was in my teens, my mom recognized how she had treated me
as a child and in fact in at least one instance saw that it probably
still affected me and she actually LAUGHED about it. It was a remark
made to an outsider and I think the laugh was a cue to say this isnt a
big deal, (as opposed to her actually thinking it was funny). But a
laugh is a laugh and it communicates a lot. It was a truth leak
momentthat she really did understand, at least to some degree, and
because there were enough other instances like this, it makes me wonder
I do feel like I am very much at the point you said you got to with your
husband. I stand by the words I sent them and will accept the
consequences, but I guess letting go is hard. But yes, the door will
always be open if they want to meet me here. Thank you again for your
words. They helped to remind me what Im doing and why. Its time to
focus on moving forward, no matter the consequences.
Karen,
I could relate to what you said to Trying to Heal but in a slightly
different way. My mom did in fact recently admit that I was a victim of
generational abuse and that it took her brothers suicide (when I was 8)
for her to start dealing with her issues, but the truth is she didnt
deal with her issues. She certainly focused on them but she dumped her

emotions on me, using me as her friend to talk about this stuff, never
stopping to wonder if maybe there was something wrong with her
relationship with her daughter, who from the age of roughly 12 to 22
spent all her free time either locked up alone in her bedroom or out
with her mother until she had a breakdown. Now, though, the way she
spins it (or I sense that she spins it because she was quite vague so
Im not completely certain) is that everything that happened to me in my
life was just an inevitable fallout of those early years before shed
understood and supposedly dealt with her issues (and the rest of the
time maybe just misunderstandings, misinterpretations). When I started
to sense this was her interpretation (though Im still not 100% sure), I
felt like she threw me under the bus (because it kind of makes me look
like an awful, cold-hearted, begrudging person to carry anger or to have
cut off from her all these years later if indeed she really did work her
process all those years ago and is now a totally healthy, caring,
loving, understanding person). She pointed out all the sudden, tragic
deaths that happened in and around my young childhoodand its true
even for a totally healthy person, I know it would have been impossible
to give your kids your best in those years. I totally understand that.
All you could do is work at it and her story is that thats exactly what
she did and that I guess what happened to me was just the unfortunate
result of that which she couldnt control. And she apologizes for her
failure as a mother It was so tricky! At first I really thought I was
getting real accountability but then I realized there was no
understanding of what shed been doing to me all through my teens and
after my breakdown If she had really worked her process and dealt with
her issues when she became aware of them, addressed and corrected the
issues with me from the way she treated me in my childhood, she could
have averted my breakdown (and the following years of torment as I tried
to break myself free from them).
Like you, they didnt want me to ever move out. When I was 22, my mom
decided I needed new furniture for my bedroom and after going to 4
different furniture stores with her, I finally got the gutsmy heart
beating wildlyto tell her that maybe I should wait to get new furniture
till one day when I move out (I just said one dayI wasnt even
specific), and later she came in my room to inform me that she KNEW that
I was not going to leave home for a long, long time! What?!?! I was 22!!
How long is a long, long time? Im glad I dont knowthat I got out
instead!
Im sorry your mom used you, tooin a different way but its all the same.
Xo, A
65
*Caden <http://proudlysensitive.wordpress.com/>*
January 10th, 2013 at 3:32 pm <#comment-212169>
Darlene, yes! A childs behavior doesnt come out of nowhere; when
parents bully their children at home, some will go on to bully their
younger siblings and more vulnerable kids at school. There is so much
blindness about how parents begin to form (and damage) their children
from a very young age with the messages they send through the way they
treat them. It isnt an inevitability of nature. I also love what you
said to Alaina about being afraid to end things because this might be
the day that they change. I can really relate to that, but youre right,
there is no magical word you can say that will make others finally get
it, it has to come from inside them and if they wont do it then its
time to move on.

Michelle, my mother also once said to me, out of the blue, we never
tried to force you to stop coloring your hair! When in fact, after I
dyed my hair green I was beaten by my father, and forced to strip out
the color. Later that year my father tried to shave my head for the same
reason; I had to run away and spend a night in the woods to get away
from him. Thats not to mention all the screaming, insults, and putdowns
from them since they apparently considered my hair to be their property.
Its amazing how the deluded, compulsive liars will alter their own
memories to make themselves look good. I dont think my mother ever said
that she did the best that she could persay, but she made a lot of
speeches to that effect about how bad she had it, that she didnt live
near her extended family when she had me and my father had a minimum
wage jobcompletely irrelevant information when were talking about the
fact that she abused her kids by choice, and because she believed in
beating, screaming at, and hyper-criticizing children.
66
*January*
January 10th, 2013 at 5:53 pm <#comment-212203>
Wow Nancy sure stepped in a big pile of garbageone she put there
herself. Shes listened to it so long that its become her reality. Sad
that she cannot recognize abusive/toxic behavior. Thank you Darlene! You
broke down all her words to make clear what was insinuated behind them.
She wonders why her daughter has issues? I sure dontits a shame
really because all children want is to be loved & accepted without
criticism by those closest to them. She totally missed the boat.
January
67
*January*
January 10th, 2013 at 6:06 pm <#comment-212210>
Caden I went through something similar with my parents. I was physically
attacked because I was acting out a part in a movie. Mom & dad both
together beat me up, ripped my clothes (literally tore at my clothes
until buttons were removed, top torn)off me, etc. I was 9 or 10 at the
time. Then theyve turned around & said stupid things like they loved
me, or that they did the best they could with the knowledge they had. It
was all crap. It was far easier to bully, beat up, ridicule me than it
was for them to sit down & talk things out. It was like living in a home
with a couple of first grade bullies since they didnt know how to
verbalize their thoughts or feelings. They could communicate quite well
with other people, so it wasnt that they were that ignorantthey even
ran their own business successfully. It was just that they expected me
to behave or act a certain way without any input from them what-so-ever.
Last time I checked, I still couldnt read minds. Then they wondered why
I havent had much to do with them, & blame it on fictional ideas that I
have some kind of mental illness. Truth is, if they were better parents,
our relationship would be fine. The fact that they cant even own up to
their past actions of scaring the crap out of me often that makes it
next to impossible to have any kind of normal relationship. Especially
true since mine also have selective amnesia. Funny, my memory works
perfectly fine. How is it that bullies never seem to remember the harm
theyve done to others?
January

68
*MZC*
January 11th, 2013 at 3:32 am <#comment-212393>
Wow, theres other people whose parents did not wish them to go out on
their own. Its good for me to hear that. Mine called my older sister
who was strong enough to leave home the minute she legally could over to
the house to be a witness against me (her word) that if I moved up to
the college town where I actually had some friends that I would do
nothing but mooch off them. My sister feebly protested that I was 21
and I should do what I wanted, but my mother screamed and bullied and
raged until I said that I would stay. Then my mother was nice again.
Eventually, through a very convoluted, painful series of events, I did
get back to that town and GOT A JOB.
My mother once said, in response to a slight disagreement from me about
something or other, Ich bin die MAMA! (I am the mother.) That
statement seems to typify her treatment of me through my whole life. She
is the mother, that justifies vilifying me, verbally abusing me,
dragging me around by the hair, humiliating me, not letting me live my
life. Nancy sounds so familiar. My mother couldnt remember dragging my
sister and me around by the hair until my sister also called her on it,
and then she justified herself by saying that we deserved it. I wonder
what things Nancy cant remember?
69
*Dawny*
January 11th, 2013 at 5:21 am <#comment-212426>
On Selective Memory-I have found it takes a great deal of maturity and
true self esteem to overcome the tendency to selectively remember. For
years I remembered with excruciating detail the bullying I endured in
junior high. I couldnt wait for my 10 year class reunion to strut my
stuff and make them all jealous. But by my 20 year reunion I had a much
different outlook. I finally remembered, actually it was that I
finally decided to take a hard look at myself, and I remembered the
children that I had bullied. So while it was true that I was a victim,
in regards to a few others I was the perpetrator. At that reunion I
focused on appologising to the ones that I had wronged. Now that my self
esteem is intact I was able to accept my flaws without it feeling
devastating. I was capable of embracing the good in me even as I
acknowledged the bad. I think good enough parents Are the ones who can
acknowledge their mistakes not the mistaken idea that a good parent must
be perfect. This is what seperates the abusers from the rest. Abusers
never accept that what they did was wrong.
70
*Kate*
January 11th, 2013 at 7:43 am <#comment-212498>
MZC,
I wonder what things Nancy cant remember?
This is what I meant (#24) when I said that there is LOT not being said,
by Nancy.
The first thought that came to my mind when I read Nancys comments was
that Nancy is being unethical in presuming to speak for her daughter. We
cant be expected to believe the daughters perspective by hearing it

from the mother. And for SURE, she isnt telling all the issues ever
raised by that daughter.
When Nancy says: Apparently according to her, I was doing all this in
order to live through her and so I would look good in others peoples
eyes that my daughter was such a successwe parents are accused of being
abusive no matter what we do!!! It seems obvious to me that there is
plenty more the daughter has said about this living through her to the
mother that we are not being told. Then to leap outside of Nancys
relationship with her daughter (which is her own business) to making
generalizations about all parents/grown kids (which is NOT her business)
shows lack of discernment, intuition, and caring on her part, and
reveals her own unwillingness to truly look at her own situation and
respond to her own daughter. IF her daughter doesnt want to have to
keep celebrating Jesus bday with toxic people, that is her daughters
choice, and the mother should say something positive to support her
daughter, as that would be the only thing that could possibly draw the
daughter back to the mother in time, and would the mother NOT want that????
The next thought that came to my mind is that adults are adults. They
are free to live the life they choose. Why do so many still choose to
fight for their freedom (from toxic relatives) when they really dont
even have to do that? They are adults. They dont owe anything to
parents, etc. SO for Nancy to have a case against her daughter for not
having the right reasons for wanting to be what she is, an independent
adult, really tells about Nancys sick mindset, not her daughters.
Speaking of estrangement, where do we find it in these words?
Theres nothing in there about honoring your children. (ESTRANGEMENT!!)
In fact it says spare the rod, spoil the child. (ESTRANGEMENT!!) You
are all spoiled and ungrateful and are cruel if you keep your children
and parents estranged.
71
*Lea*
January 11th, 2013 at 7:56 am <#comment-212507>
Dawny Im so glad to read your comment. My mother too has selective
memory. Sometimes I thought I was crazy because she denies things so
convincingly. I am a terrible liar, but I have lied. Im not sure that
there is anyone that has never lied. I fear becoming her so much that
now whenever I feel the need to lie I question myself. Is it to protect
me or protect who I am talking to? Usually I find that it is really to
protect myself (and usually from my mothers judgement), so I will be
honest or I wont say anything at all. Now I am usually able to prevent
situations where Id want to lie altogether. I realize that she holds
people, including herself, to impossible standards. My grandparents are
extremely critical of her (and of me and my sisters). I grew up watching
her lie to them and sometimes being part of it. I know why she is how
she is, but I cant excuse her for it. She moved us right next door to
them in a rural area and my mother and grandmother worked in the schools
that I attended. I always made excuses for her, but now that I have my
own daughter I cant understand how she could be that way to her
daughters or let her parents treat us that way also.
72
*Kate*
January 11th, 2013 at 8:25 am <#comment-212520>
#70-

SO for Nancy to have a case against her daughter for not having the
right reasons for wanting to be what she is, an independent adult,
really tells about Nancys sick mindset, not her daughters.
specifically, her sick mindset is that she is trying to control her
(grown) daughter. I can only imagine the toxicity that surrounds
mandatory family holidays and public performances, (sports, stage
performances, religious settings) as mentioned my Nancys daughter. Take
away those public type settings from our lifestyles and see what is left
to work with in terms of healthier relationship possibilities.
73
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 9:31 am <#comment-212548>
Hi Dawny
Excellent comments! Very good insights ~ and I agree about parents.
There is no such thing as perfection but open communication, willingness
and accountability is essential to successful relationship. And NOT just
on one side! I was always willing to take the blame, even when it was
not my fault. Abusers never look at themselves that way.
Hugs, Darlene
Hi January
Thanks for your comments!
Hugs, Darlene
74
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 9:34 am <#comment-212549>
Hi MZC
I hate that statement (I am the Mother) when used in that context! It
speaks of control, entitlement and rights which all remind me of
ownership and not love or relationship. To me the fact that I am the
mother carries great responsiblity to listen to my kids, to model love,
to be the parent not the child!
Thanks for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene
75
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 11:03 am <#comment-212598>
Darlene, I just wanted to say that I LOVE the way you always close your
comments to people:
Hugs, Darlene.
This has made such a HUGE difference in my life! I didnt realize it
until I started closing my emails and letters to people with Hugs
myself. Then I realized one more reason that I loved coming here every
single day: to get my hugs. And not just ONE hug, but MANY. I dont
get many hugs in my life and I just crave it. Love it. Changes
everything, doesnt it?
Thats why I love living in Central America and the Latin countries:
every greeting is with a hug and a kiss on the cheek. Sometimes both
sides! Can you imagine? Its great.

Thank you so much!


Hugs, Catherine
76
*Brenda H*
January 11th, 2013 at 11:20 am <#comment-212609>
I shared this in both FB groups I admin for, and on my FB page. Its
very healing to see these words dissected. Any of our mothers could
have written them. So one sided and invalidating. Learning to see the
real message behind the words is an art Ive slowly been developing.
Ever hyper vigilant to the REAL message, but always denying that its
there, and diving in, for another abusive ride.
77
*Marore*
January 11th, 2013 at 11:22 am <#comment-212610>
Hi, Darlene.yes, I do remember when it was all over the news about the
dad who shot his daughters laptop. I was so angry reading peoples
comments that I simply had to stay away from reading anything more about
it. People just amazed me with their harshness and their insensitivity.
You know, Alice Miller was such an incredible person. I just loved so
much of what she wrote and I so agreed with her re childhood abuse and
its ramifications upon adult survivors. Sadly, she died in 2010, I
believe, but her website was a true source of light. In fact, her
website it still available and has so many good articles, plus letters
from abuse survivors all around the world. She was so caring, taking
time to personally answer so many peoples questions. She was ahead of
her time, thats for sure. Ive purchased many of her books and often
refer to them. I wish the world had more people like her, a champion for
the rights of abuse survivors everywhere.
Youre doing such an important thing by blogging and commenting on all
of these very pertinent topics. I am loving your site so much, Darlene.
Love,
Marore
78
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 1:00 pm <#comment-212644>
I just published a new post!!
This new post is about Repairing Self Trust and Breaking the pattern of
letting myself down!
<http://emergingfrombroken.com/repairing-self-trust-breaking-the-pattern-of-lett
ing-myself-down/>
When our value is not set in place as children, we begin to treat
ourselves the same way that we have always been treated. Realizing that
is the first step in overcoming it! See you there!
Hugs Darlene
79
*Marore*
January 11th, 2013 at 1:13 pm <#comment-212651>
Hi, Darlene..I forgot to say thank you for your comment to me!! So,

thank you very much!


Also, I did read about the laptop incident, but I didnt read your blog
about it..Im going to try to locate that right now because I really
want to read what you have to say about it.
Oh, I just read your new blog comment about Repairing Self-Trust. and
Ill go back and comment later. Such good stuff..I relate to what you
wrote in every possible way. I really need to work on following through
with myself.
Love,
Marore
80
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 1:22 pm <#comment-212656>
Hi Marore
here is the link to that laptop dad post ~
http://emergingfrombroken.com/facebook-parenting-for-the-troubled-teen-how-kidsare-devalued/
That was an interesting discussion!
Hugs, Darlene
81
*Marore*
January 11th, 2013 at 1:39 pm <#comment-212672>
Thanks, Darlene!..I found it by googling, Emerging from Broken Father
Shot Laptop. I just finished making a comment there.
Love,
Marore
82
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 1:54 pm <#comment-212681>
Hi Brenda,
Thank you for sharing my blog post!
Hugs, Darlene
Hi Catherine!
I hated to be touched for many years, even hugs were repulsive to me.
When I emerged into healing, I found that human touch was really nice
sometimes. I especially like the thought of cyber hugs because they
are very safe!
p.s. I spend time each year in Mexico and I LOVE that part of the
culture there too!
Hugs, Darlene
83
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 1:56 pm <#comment-212682>
Hi Marore
I Love the work of Alice Miller. I found out about her when efb was over
1.5 years old, and people were asking me if I studied under her! I have
5 of her books now. I often quote her.

Thanks for sharing,


Hugs, Darlene
84
*Janie*
January 11th, 2013 at 3:36 pm <#comment-212737>
You know, I have to say this. When I first read this, I thought of my
mothers relationship with her mother. My grandmother was supposedly
abusive to my mother. I dont know, as I never got to know my grandmother
on that side, and my mother is dramatic and exagerates. My mother still
did for her mother, and enjoyed playing the martyr while she did so, in
my opinion. My mother seems to despise her mother by the comments she
has made about her, the bad light she has painted her in.
However, when Nancy talks about honor your mother and father that you
may live long. I am feeling, well, my mother did treat her mother with
respect, at least in front of us, and she did for her in her old age,
and my mother is living a long life, while her some of her siblings died
at a young age. My emotional side is wondering if there is truth to that
statement?
My rational side says, no, her siblings smoked and didnt take care of
themselves. This is a control tactic. But it still makes me feel a
little guilty. I always felt that my mother had some kind of protection
from God, as she never was made to pay the piper for how she treated me,
I remember feeling that way as a child. Because she was obedient to the
church God excused her behavior.
I am, incidently, named for that grand mother. My grandfather died about
a month after I was born. He had cancer. I wonder, if my mother named me
after her mom as a peace offering to her father. I wonder if my mother
grew up with a mean mother like me, and her father also blindly
discounted her mothers abuse. My mother always speaks highly of her
father, but the stories she tells about him dont match up. He seems mean
as well. Perhaps she felt her own mother tried to block her relationship
with her own dad, as my mother did to me? And was more supportive of my
sisters relationship with my father, as my sister is the one playing out
my mothers wishes for her own younger life that she herself never fulfilled?
So much wondering today.
Hugs,
Janie
85
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 11th, 2013 at 7:42 pm <#comment-212844>
Hi Janie
I am going to put it this way; so do you think that God would protect
someone who put up with abuse? Wouldnt God rather that people stood up
to it so that the cycle could be broken? Was your mother really obedient
to the church? I found that study of what the teachings of the christian
church really were (I studied greek and hebrew biblical word origins for
8 years) showed me a totally different story to what I had been taught
by controlling and manipulative people. I dont think that an almight
God would excuse the very behaviour that he condems just because it is a
parent doing it. Who would be the role models for what the truth is if
not the parents? Where would kids learn love if not from parents? Lots
to think about!
Hugs, Darlene
86

*Karen Ranes*
January 11th, 2013 at 8:09 pm <#comment-212853>
Thank you Alaina for your insightful comments. I believe our families
were and are
very similar. Karen
87
*Karen Ranes*
January 11th, 2013 at 8:12 pm <#comment-212858>
Darlene, wow I was never touched or hugged or kissed or
cuddled as a child so always didnt know what to do or how to accept
a hug either. Thats interesting.
88
*Janie*
January 12th, 2013 at 4:16 am <#comment-213084>
Hi Darlene, thank you for all of the thoughts and questions to counter
that wrong thinking that still rears up sometimes. I guess it is
conditioning. The church was used to gain compliance and control over
us, and to instill feelings of guilt in us.
My mother will proudly tell you, that I could recite memorized prayers,
some in Latin, at the age of 3. That is how far back it goes. I know
what she did is wrong, mean, and sometimes evil and vindictive. A loving
God does not condone or accept that, and other scriptures say he will
avenge children who are abused.
I just needed to share the feeling that came up,and that sometimes I
still think God thinks I am a bad person.Actually, most of the time.
Somehow, I have twisted my mothers negative opinion of me into Gods. I
really wanted someone to tell me this is not true,and it is a false
belief instilled in me. Thank you for speaking to the contrary!
That is fascinating,how you studied the biblical word roots, for so
long. You must have a great insight and understanding of the scriptures.
It is a shame people like Nancy and our parents twist them to suit their
evil purposes!
Thanks,
Janie
89
*Yasha s Twin*
January 12th, 2013 at 12:04 pm <#comment-213243>
It is hilariously sad that this post is so timely as my aunt has hurled
the honor thy mother and father phrase at me just a few hours ago via
Facebook.
Long have my mother and I had a tumultuous relationship the NPD is
strong in that one. And yet yet some kind of way people keep trying to
jump in and fix me and tell me about myself and how Im disrespecting
myself and her by not having a relationship with her. WTF? I mean, these
people know nothing of the hell, of the veritable FARCE that our m/d
relationship was. They dont know ME and they surely dont know HER as I
DO.
When I attempted to repair the relationship with my Nmom, I drew the
line in the sand about mutual respect and her words VERBATIM were that
we could not have a relationship.

so I am honoring her by honoring that request. We never have to see


one another again and she will never set eyes on her now 2 month old
granddaughter. And that is HER choice and her loss. Not mine. Moreover,
I will NOT continue to explain this to outsiders. But I did have to
check myself when I saw her message on FB. That old childhood fear of
being chastised set in. I took a moment, centered myself and realized
there is no chastising for me. At 33 years old I am an adult in every
way. Nothing she could say or do to me could change the facts of my life
and my truth. Nothing. I responded in a respectful way, closing the
issue thoroughly. These relatives are soon to be collateral damage but
I dont care. I wont live LIES. I wont bow and kowtow in fear of some
imaginary retribution.
I am a grown a** woman.
I am somebodys wife.
I am somebodys mother.
and everything I have, I worked my ass off for with little to NO help.
I will not honor those that are dishonorable. And I dont care WHO they are.
I will not live in dysfunction. Not for anyone. Nor will I cover it up
and pretend that all of the things that Ive been through and that
happened to me at her hands didnt happen; including her denigration,
devaluing and disrespect. Been there, done that, wrote the book, copped
the t-shirt and got a roll of flim and postcards out of the deal. Im good!
90
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 12th, 2013 at 12:28 pm <#comment-213253>
Dear Yasha, you finally put the last piece in place for me:
These relatives are soon to be collateral damage
This
have
live
good

should ease the pain of losing all the other relatives I wanted to
relationships with. Never thought of it that way. And I too wont
a lie for ANYONE. I have to learn to live for MY SELF. I deserve
treatment, too. Amen.

91
*Yasha s Twin*
January 12th, 2013 at 1:12 pm <#comment-213275>
@Catherine:
You have a right to PEACE and TRUTH in your life, chica.
And you have a right to eject those who interfere with that. Now, if
others decide they want to jump into the fray on the side of your
abusers, in order to keep your peace and your truth, you might have to
let them go. And thats THEIR loss.
Ive never understood why people cant just say, Hey, Im not sure
whats going on with you and XYZ, but I hope it works out and if you
need me, let me know. THE END. People put their dogs in fights that
have nothing to DO with them. My mother is going to LIE HER ASS OFF in
order to be the martyr and victim, and my relatives are going to side
with her automatically because in their eyes she is my mother, my elder
and therefore absolved of all abusive and neglectful wrong doing and
shenanigans. And I, the menial, lowly daughter should just accept her
version and truth as my own whether it is correct or not.
NOT GONNA HAPPEN. And because they cant deal with me being an adult and
standing up for myself, and what I believe in because Im no longer a
willing participant in the games of denial, guilt and shame they play on
a daily basis, they will disassociate with me but somehow, it will be
MY fault. LOLOLOL! Mind boggling, no?

I am content with letting them go. That is their choice. But to live
free is MY choice. And YOUR choice. And, if I do say so myself
Catherine, its a GOOD choice. ;0)
92
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 12th, 2013 at 3:43 pm <#comment-213316>
Thanks, Darlene. I excused too much for too long, too. I no longer do
that because I did not do that!
Yashas Twin wrote: Ive never understood why people cant just say,
Hey, Im not sure whats going on with you and XYZ, but I hope it works
out and if you need me, let me know. THE END.
THANK YOU. I have to remember that. Life would be so much easier if
people did that, and who knows? Maybe resolutions would come about much
easier, if people did not always feel the need to take sides. This never
happens in that miserable family of mine. I have to just walk away and
stay away. Its getting easier and easier to do, with every rejection I
meet. After all these years I really thought that things would have
changed, but no. Everythings still the same only worse.
Like Darlene says, its a cycle of abuse, and I aim to break it.
Starting and ending with me. I can see that they never will, and it
really is only up to me. Its so sad to have to bury them all over
again, but I will. I am burying all the things that grieve me, and
keening over their graves, in more ways than one.
Dear God give me the strength that I need, and show me The Way. Gracias,
amen.
93
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 12th, 2013 at 4:19 pm <#comment-213323>
Yasha, I felt the same way you did for most of my life. But now that Im
almost 63 years old, Im realizing that I also expected (hoped, dreamt)
that things would one day change. When they did not, and my mother died
refusing to see me on her death bed, and she declared open season on
me by my sisters and siblings, I thought I would just die.
I really believed unconsciously that when the Wicked Witch was dead, all
the flying monkeys would magically turn back into friends. Or that the
Witch would turn into Glenda before she left this earth forever. I
didnt even realize I had this dream until it was gone. Shattered
forever. Im still trying to deal with this, almost 3 years later.
Losing my son who has apparently gone over to the dark side with drugs
and alcohol and a seven year estrangement has left me bereft, looking
for a place to land. Its hard to not believe its all my fault when
so many are opposed to me, even when I read that its an destructive
family system, in a cycle of abuse. I thought I had broken it with my
own child and family, but NO. I am apparently still part of it and I can
do nothing at all to make any improvement.
Everything I do try is met with hostility, rejection or disbelief. The
only thing that would be acceptable is for me to admit to my crimes
and renege on the truth. This I will never do. How can I?

What do we have but truth, beauty and justice that has value in this
world? I live in search of this still.
The winds of grace blow all the time; all we need do is set our sails.
Dear God please show me The Way.
94
*Aime *
January 12th, 2013 at 7:38 pm <#comment-213366>
Girls grow up to be women. The best revenge
is to be happy & successful. Do the oppositte, LOVE; do Good not evil. I
reap what I sow. What comes around goes around. karma.
95
*Krissy*
January 12th, 2013 at 9:18 pm <#comment-213395>
I used to believe comments like Nancys, but fortunately, I can now see
the abuse and irrationality of what she is saying. Apart from what
Darlene bolded, I can see other parts that smell of verbal abuse she
tells us what her daughter claims, but can we believe her? Her daughter
probably claimed a lot more but we are not hearing everything, only what
she wants to put forward to prove her point.
I just read a section in Dan Siegels book Parenting from the inside
out about how adults often do not reflect the internal experience of a
child and how this results in invalidation, even if the adult thinks
he/she is doing the right thing. In the case of Nancy, what is clear is
that her behavior in clapping and applauding her daughters performace
speaks more about HER than it does about her daughter. SHE was thrilled
that her daughter did well. Did she know what her daughters reality
was? From what she says, probably not, because she certainly doesnt get
the message from her daughter and doesnt understand what her daughter
is trying to tell her.
This is the other verbally abusive statement We parents are told we
are abusive no matter what we do! Really??! So now parents are being
told they are abusive no matter what?! When? She completed dismisses the
claims of her daughter, along with the readers of this blog, with that
one statement designed to tell us that we have no claim because no
matter what, they are victims.
Being a parent myself, I understand how much blame we can bear, and I
have come to terms with my contribution to my daughters pain and
dysfunctions. However, given my background/conditioning and lack of
understanding, there was little chance that our relationship could have
thrived. I cant undo the past, but I can mourn it, and learn from it,
see how it contributed to my world view and how I can do better with my
younger ones. I refuse to keep bearing the guilt and blame, even from a
daughter who still holds me responsible and who is insistent on
punishing me. The most respectful thing I can do for her now is have
self-respect and give her the freedom to live the way she wants to, and
if that is without me in her life, so be it. I dont blame her for it,
but I will not tolerate toxicity either mutually respectful
relationships are the only way to go from now on.
96

*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*


January 12th, 2013 at 10:27 pm <#comment-213410>
Thank you Krissy. You put it so well, and I know exactly what you feel
and what you are saying. I love my son too, but I have had to draw the
line with him too, when it comes to disrespect. He disrespected me his
whole life and I blamed myself because arent the mothers always to
blame? and now Im leaving him alone, too and respecting his wish to
live the way he wants and keep his secret, double life. Its just so sad
to see the family dysfunction continue on when I swore it would end with me!
Im not perfect but as a parent, I was a million miles away from how I
was raised. I wish he could appreciate the good things that he did have
from us, but that is not to be. And I will always love him from a
distance. I dont know any other answer to this but to keep working on
myself and asking God to enlighten us all. Grant peace to us all. Let us
learn the true meaning of love. Gracias, amen.
97
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 13th, 2013 at 9:08 am <#comment-213546>
Hi Aime
It is so hard to love before we have had an example of love. This site
about overcoming the damage caused to us as children so that we can
start leanring what love really is so that we can love.
Thanks for sharing,
Hugs, Darlene
98
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 14th, 2013 at 8:14 am <#comment-214020>
Hi Karen
Re: hugs ~ I learned to suspect something (motive) if I was hugged and
that goes same for if I was complimented. So hugs scared me a lot!
hugs, Darlene
99
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 14th, 2013 at 8:19 am <#comment-214022>
Hi Janie
I totally understand what you are saying ~ I had to find out the truth
about what is documented about God (in the NEW testament) as I came to
understand how much the old testament is used to back up abuse as
right. Anything can be twisted to be what a controller wants it to be
for THEIR gain. For a while I didnt trust what ANYONE said as truth.
That was okay too! I had to kind of clear the slate of my belief
system and part of that was realizing that most of the people in my
life had filled my head with lies about most things. Finding out what
love really is made a big difference to the way that I thought.
I dont think that I have such great knowledge or insight to the
scriptures, as much as I have great insight and knowledge about the
truth itself. When the truth is twisted, (especially from a young age)
that is brainwashing. And that brainwashing is what we are dealing with.
There is hope in the truth!
Hugs, Darlene
100

*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*


January 14th, 2013 at 8:21 am <#comment-214024>
Hi Yashas Twin
YES! you wrote ~ I will not honor those that are dishonorable I love
the rest of what you said too!
That is the bottom line in a nutshell! Thanks for sharing!
Hugs, Darlene
101
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 14th, 2013 at 8:24 am <#comment-214025>
Hi Krissy
One of the hardest parts of this whole healing process is to hold
ourselves to the same standards that we wish our parents had held. I
love your final paragraph in your comments. I hope that one day your
daughter give the relationship another chance.
Hugs, Darlene
102
*TryingToHeal <http://none/>*
January 15th, 2013 at 3:04 am <#comment-214409>
THANKS TO ALL. Thank you all so much for your responses to my comments
from Jan. 9th.really good insight and advice. Im happy to tell you,
since that post, Ive been still moving forward, understanding more
every day that keeping my family at arms length is not just what I need
to do, its what I WANT TO DO.
Darlene,
I really appreciated your comment about how my family treated my husband
leaving me, was DISMISSIVEthat was the perfect word to describe it.
Man, when I really start digging into my past, there are endless
examples of how my family DISMISSED me my entire adult life. And thats
on top of a childhood that riddled with emotional abuse and neglect. As
one of 13 children, I was one of the expendables.
103
*Simsim*
January 15th, 2013 at 7:58 am <#comment-214502>
I just woke up to the realisation I am a child of a NM. Too many
stories. Too much pain. Each time the use of fear. Inciting in me
absolute panic of losing her. I was so engulfed then abruptly ignored I
couldnt ever make sense. Looking back my own words were clues! I
would beg her to quit squeezing me dry( emotional vampire)- I had to HAD
TO sit down if she started talking,nod nod yes yes nod nod. No crossing
your leg, sit absolutely still, no toilet breaks no sipping water.
LISTEN WITH DEDICATION. ESTABLISH MAINTAIN SUSTAIN eye contact. Endure
agonisingly long rants. All about her. Admire her. Slightest movement
indicated severe disregard for her. Intrusive questioning. If I suddenly
deviated from the norm I was hiding something from her indicating my
total infidelity. Like my father who left her 20 yrs ago. I have his
dirty blood in my veins. On. And on. Last night at 39 yrs old it dawned
on me. I read your posts. She prevented me having kids( thereby making
her a grandmother old how dare I age her- and get busy without her
being centre of my universe) like Nancy but different- she convinced me
all my life youre too weak for childbirth not like me your strong
mother you lack the strength and mental capacity to give birth let alone

raise a child I am worried to death you will die in childbirth your


husband will abuse you dump you with kids you will be left to fend for
yourself and kids on streets and resort to prostitution the list is long.
Finally now she cannot say what goes around.. So.. Shes modified it
to youve never experienced the joy the fortune God gives us complete
women, youve never given birth so how would you know. And ; I must
have committed so many sins that my own daughter is so full of poison
towards me God didnt make you a mother, He knew better. Or- yes its
easy for you to say, you didnt give birth and have your body be ravaged
by it, so its easy in your case, you hurt your mother so God made sure
you will never experience motherhood what you give you get! Somehow,
it just had to make sense for her to persistently remind me. And like
Nancy, she says in shrill triumph just you wait when youre my age,
NOBODY no child no daughter who will care for you!
Last night when I realised shes not difficult cranky old lady she is
a NM I finally said youre right. Im glad you realise that when I am
65 I will have nobody taking care of me LIKE YOU HAVE ME CARING FOR YOU.
She has since last night ceased all communication with me. Living in my
flat around my full time live in maid ( hired for her exclusively) wept
loudly. Sobbed. And asked I fly her back ( first class) to her home.
Which btw she left a good 18 yrs ago.
No Nancy sometimes that crap just isnt true. Karma isnt about things
revolving out of spite. Karma is deeds we do earning us a better value
of the true selves we really are. Nobody is born bad. And yes Nancywhatever I give good/bad cannot come back to me. I dont have kids who
will grow up and Whatever that fear based terror tactic you displayed
of your own mind set.
104
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 15th, 2013 at 8:38 am <#comment-214520>
Hi Simsim
Welcome to emerging from broken. These are really good examples of
dysfunctional mother daughter relationship where a mother will use
anything to have control over the daughter. These are great examples of
extreem put-downs designed to hurt. That is not love. Her style is about
communicating that your value is less than hers and getting you to
comply within that belief system. The thing that set me free was
realizing that I deserved better and the truth is that my mothers
actions did not come from love and I have a choice about my part in the
relationship now.
Thanks for sharing. I love that you drew a boundary!
Hugs, Darlene
105
*Simsim*
January 15th, 2013 at 9:15 am <#comment-214534>
Thanks Darlene I need language and words appropriate to express
myself. Ive been deliberately kept an emotional child. Stuck at 14. So
reading is liberating my expression of everything. Tumultuous. Even now,
I instinctively take responsibility and nearly write( while I continue
to think steady streams still stuck in cycle)- I stayed or somehow I
cooperated in my emotional immaturity and destruction. Now I know its
all her. 20 years ago she was 45 and telling me how frail weak helpless
she was, everything was age related then how ageing was truly horrible!
How she took my belongings and just grandly gave to others, reminding me

in words these things are just things I am shallow to attach importance


to them. Or eat my food( I was only vegetarian in house and I never had
food). From a wealthy background I was always made aware of sudden loss
of money resulting in me being destitute could likely happen. Any
minute. I was deprived of basic sanitation hygiene clothes and food. The
golden child my sister had plenty and in all colours too I fell as a 6
yr old got bit by a dog, she walked over me and when she realised she
had an audience her poor clumsy kid fell alarming the skittish dog
frightened it into biting me. Wicked wicked me. After taking me to
hospital for rabies vaccinations? She gave up on day 4. I never got the
full 21. She says till today you survived rabies you can survive
anything. From a well off background, I am always at threats with
immediate poverty dooming me to a life of prostotution. Poverty and
prostitution is my doom ridden destiny.
Actually Darlene I am not drawing any boundary. I am exhausted. With the
drama spanning over 35 years. I cannot even climb out of bed. I just lie
here with my notebook and phone. Reading. Educating myself. Finding
validation. Support here! She has threatened me with rejection cease
communication total end of a relationship. Because I said No I dont
want to go out with you and talk you cry its distressing and I feel
uncomfortable with people staring at why youre audibly sobbing and you
do it for at least 3 hours. This. Has prompted her swift extreme usual
response. I am to be cast aside. I am to be cut off from.
I have no idea whst my sister thinks. We havent spoken for years.
Mother is the conduit of all information. My brother -21 yrs. ditto.
Ive drawn no lines. Ive welcomed her total rejection of me. Gladly. My
maid has booked her flights. She will take her to airport. Practical
details like / going back to a house she locked up 18 yrs ago hasnt
sunk in Or shes made arrangements. I just cant feel this bad anymore.
Every month its like grieving a dead mother. Every month I felt
orphaned. And cried like I was bereaved. Now She issued her ultimatum.
I just called her.
Ok Im finding my emotional language here. THANK YOU. I NEED to
understand. I need to fully accept. Realise what equal value means. Not
relate from the derived meaning she thrust on me 35 yrs ago. Control so
fully that I dont even know any family member, no friends, no life no
outlet, no food preference no knowledge of my FAV colour or style I am
this far realising I dont have a FAV book. Or film. I go to the
toilet regulated around her needs. I have a lot to discover about me.
The real me. Not the frightened extension use at convenience toy she has
held to her breast to overcome her own shame. To control me gives her a
sense of worth.
Darlene . I want A Mother. She insisted on being friends. And broke
that too. Her way only. I am in shock. In a place where its massively
painful to realise I am alone. Ive been lied to all my life.
This forum has given me strength to brush my teeth today. A Big
Inprovement. Lacking in self care extended this far that I hardly should
care about personal hygiene or physical needs like food water. Bec I
must jump on command and rush to her side to..? Oh nothing I forgot are
you going to brush your teeth ?? So late? Youre so unhealthy.
Thank you. I feel a bit of light penetrating into my dark existence.
Finally :-)
Hugs!

106
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 15th, 2013 at 9:29 am <#comment-214539>
Hi Simsim
What I meant about your drawing a boundary was that you asked her to
leave. That is a boundary. And welcoming her rejection of you is also
a boundry. The way that I came to understand this with my mother is that
she rejected me a long long time ago when she had to have it all her
way. I was not valued as an individual. (I have written so much more
about this in other posts)
I wanted a mother too; I guess that is why I hung on so long. But I
learned to fill that void for myself. I became the mother (to me) that I
never had. I healed. (and most of the process is documented in this
website!)
Yay for some light penetrating!
Hugs, Darlene
107
*Simsim*
January 15th, 2013 at 9:41 am <#comment-214541>
Thank you! I just smiled- that oh you understand. I see your light. I
must get up and walk the path of recovery now. Part of it is reading
everything here. By everyone. Its Filling in the gaps. Like warm
layers of understanding hugs! You explain it marvellously. Thank you I
am huh. Ultimately I am doing it afterall huh. Im not weak helpless
ineffectual afterall. Im not! I Will Learn to heal love and value
myself all over again. I have started this already can you know my
relief Darlene ?
In broken music of my heart can I say this noble people undertake
journey to help others, its the bravest who have experienced that
journey too.
Be blessed! My prayers and gratitude to you and all the brave people
here! Thank you. Most sincerely most simply :-)
Big hugs!!
108
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 15th, 2013 at 3:01 pm <#comment-214704>
Hi Everyone
I just published a new post~ This week PAM W. shares about the process
of forgiveness (of child abusers) as it was for her. I look forward to
the conversation!
Here is the link The Process of forgiving child abusers by Pam Witzemann
http://emergingfrombroken.com/the-process-of-forgiving-child-abusers-by-pam-witz
emann/
109
*Anna*
January 23rd, 2013 at 11:33 am <#comment-218865>
Dear Catherine,
And this is going to be hard for you here. You say that no way no how is
your sons behavior your fault. You also say that you are beating your
self over the head trying to figure out what you did wrong. I have to
point to this glaringly obvious paragraph you wrote:

And my son learned to disrespect me by watching my own husband


disrespect me all the years we were together. I was never physically
abused (I would never have stood for that) but I didnt even recognize
the mental and emotional abuse that was going on and how I was
completely ignored and zeroed out for all of my adult life living with
him. So my son never did see a 50/50 supportive relationship growing up.
But I thought I was doing a good job because he wasnt beaten physically
or verbally.
Can you not see that it is a huge mistake to think that this
relationship with your husband or is not the core of your problems with
your son. I dont disagree that you were there for your son. You are
very caring it is clear, but that does not mean that it was enough not
to abuse your son yourself. Can you not see that your son saw not only
your family of origin have disrespectful attitudes towards you, but that
what was going on in the home combined with that, shaped his ideas about
disrespect for women?
You say that you would never allow misogynistic materials inside the
home, and yet you allowed misogyny to prevail far more intimately by
presenting a misogynistic situation with your husband. I am not trying
to put you down Catherine. You still have time. You can forgive
yourself. I am also a single mother of a small boy.
My own parents abandoned me at a very young Age, and throughout my life.
I think you are absolutely right to cut off contact with your relatives,
and should have done that earlier on. I am 42, and have only just
decided in the last year to cut my parents and most relatives Out of my
life, and regret not doing so permanently at 14 when they decided to
throw me away. I have spent a good part of my life trying to make
everyone happy when my son was born I realized that if he saw them
treating me this way, that he would see that that was an acceptable way
to treat me and in fact all women.
Please do not take my comments as offensive- we all make mistakes. A
truly great mother understands her faults and admits them.
110
*ButtaFli*
January 29th, 2013 at 7:32 am <#comment-222127>
RELIGION and the WORD OF GOD was used on me MERCILESSLY-FOR HOURS. Then
others dont understand WHY I have chosen to go no contact w/my
mother-theNARC. Just talked to an aunt this morning whos been calling
me-HABITUALLY for the last four weeks. She finally asked me WHY am I no
longer talking to my mother? Everything she said to me-was in defense of
my mother. Im done explaining & trying to justify myself. I WAS ABUSED
& was still being abused by this narcissistic woman! My anxiety is so
high right now. I think Im pissed @ myself for even engaging in this
conversation w/one of my mothers MINIONS. The Bible warns parents to
not cause their children to become BITTER toward them. Its funny how
abusive parents will use the word of God to threaten their children YET
they NEVER mention this part of the bible that God WARNS PARENTS.
Hypocrites!
111
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 29th, 2013 at 11:09 am <#comment-222248>

Hi Buttafli
Good for you. You dont have to justify or explain anything! This is all
about self validation and self empowerment. You are your own person.
When I realized it didnt matter what I said I was not going to be
heard, I gave up. And then I found my freedom.
Hugs, Darlene
112
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 29th, 2013 at 12:10 pm <#comment-222277>
Darlene wrote: When I realized it didnt matter what I said I was not
going to be heard, I gave up. And then I found my freedom.
This isnt the first time Darlene has said this, but I think Im finally
figuring it out. By hard experience, and fruitlessly trying, over and
over again, and seeing things only get worse. I am going to print this
out and hang it on the wall, and its going in my quote / prayer book.
Thank you Darlene! I think Ill do a quote book about finding freedom.
~ wings ~
Gracias, amiga.
113
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 29th, 2013 at 2:36 pm <#comment-222375>
Hi Catherine
Glad this resoated with you! It came to me and I actually copied it into
my quote bank too. Giving up on being heard by the very people who
never ever tried to hear me before was a huge chunk of wonderful in my
healing journey!
Hugs, Darlene
114
*Catherine Todd <http://atitlanarts.com/>*
January 29th, 2013 at 3:08 pm <#comment-222391>
Darlene, Id love it if you posted a quote page, as Im saving them all
for a quote/prayer book too. Really wonderful.
Title: When I Found My Freedom and this one is the first.
Gracias, amiga!
115
*Offie*
February 7th, 2013 at 9:45 am <#comment-227146>
This article is so sad and a revelation to me. Sad because it is painful
to know that some mothers can be so cruel to their children. These
mothers , do they even know the impact of what and how they treat
their children? That what they say to children, especially as they grow
up, are sometimes unfortunately, forever engraved in their young and
impressionable heart, mind and spirit? That when they become adults they
would be scarred by all these painful experiences from supposedly
someone who loves them? Or do these so called mothers even thought and
consciously decide how to truly love their children, how to truly
reflect the biblical love from God to be felt and passed on to their
children? Im now thinking that maybe some mothers are not prepared to

be mothers and do know the scope of thei job description and the
accountability for the outcome which perhaps we can say one outcome
can be the kind of relationship they have with their children. They
probably didnt think of what their goal is or how these goals can be
accomplished. begin with the end in mind Stephen covey wrote. If
mothers did this, would they have made these painful choices and chose
to potentially hurt their child?!
On the bible honor your mother and father ouch! I have heard that so
many times from my mother At a very young age. But I wonder now .. At
13 years old what could I have possibly done that deserves eternal
damnation? Remember folks that I was born and raised catholic in a
country where authority of elders rules and the church is part of our
everyday lives. If my mother then told me that I would go to hell, who
else will save me? God of course in His mercy- but on earth, who else? I
was devastated for a long time and even up to now, I do feel
uncomfortable about it. I was worthless and evil and deserved eternal
fire. That ate me up for a long time. I had to form my own bond with my
God early on because I felt He alone will save me. I guess thats the
good I got from this.
I am sad for these mothers and children who have this kind of fear and
manipulative relationship. Would be Mothers should pass a licensure
exam, go through a battery of psychological assessments, values-based
interviews and testing, references checks, etc. Before they are allowed
to have children. Its a BIG job and they should be equipped to be one
and do a good job. If they are proven to be unfit then they should work
on themselves first before bringing a life to the world. It will save a
lot of pain and heartache. Ha! I wish :)
116
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 7th, 2013 at 11:24 am <#comment-227194>
Hi Offie
Welcome to EFB
Yes, there is a brainwashing process that is very effective in causing
children to believe that they are the problem. I dont think many people
consider what messages thier words and actions communicate to their
children. I originally wanted to work with parents of teenagers, and I
quickly realized that these parents are not interested in changing they
ways they behave! They blame things on the kids never even considering
how these kids got this way in the first place.. Its pretty sad but we
are here. I have completly changed my life, I have three kids (1 teen
and 2 adult now) and they were not raised the way that I was and I
didnt have any trouble with them as teens! (isnt that interesting!)
They know that they are loved AND respected by us.
Thank you for sharing,
Hugs, Darlene
117
*Bella*
February 14th, 2013 at 10:55 am <#comment-230517>
Im shaking as I write this because I am full of rage! The bible does
speak on this!! In Colossians 3:21, it reads that fathers should not
provoke their children, thus it discourages them. Also, in the new
testiment(Mark 9:42) Jesus himself said, that But if you cause one of
these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better
for you to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone hung around

your neck.
POW. Way to shut em down baby!
118
*Marore*
February 14th, 2013 at 11:59 am <#comment-230542>
Bella, I so agree with you!
Have you ever visited the Luke 17:3 web site? (I apologize if I didnt
get the verse right.but if you google Luke 17 Ministries, it should
come up.) Wow! These women experienced abuse as children and they are
extremely forceful in their opinions about how abusing children is
against everything God stands for. They back up everything with
scriptures, if that is important to you.
I learned a lot from their site. It helped me tremendously several years
ago when I was struggling with the rage I felt toward my abusive parents.
I also got a different perspective re what honoring ones parents
actually means. What Id been taught in my fundamentalist religious
upbringing was just another form of brainwashing, really.
I get so angry, like you, whenever I hear people taking up for abusive
parents!! It makes my blood boil.
You go, girl. I am right there with ya!
119
*Jenelle*
February 14th, 2013 at 12:27 pm <#comment-230555>
Im kind of new to this whole narc issue. I knew there was a problem
when I left home, but as Im married about to start a family and in my
thirties. The similarities are hard to deny between my life and those
with a narc parent. There was so much gas lighting going on in my home
and an enabling father it took me til my thirites to realize even though
I wasnt at home anymore. My mother was an ignoring mother, but not to
the point of complete neglect. At a young age i was subjected to
parentification and taking care of my younger brother. (we were both
adopted). I had major feelings of responsibility. I am not able to feel
some of that weight of responsibility come off, with acceptance for my
mother and that she will always be this way. The low contact has worked
for me because I control when and if I see her, which isnt a huge
problem cause she doesnt care to speak to me unless there is some kind
of bad news. As a child i was never hugged, held or was treated kindly
by her. I never had a birthday party unless i had to organize it, and in
it was a ton of manipulations. I think one thing I was scared of, is
will i be this way to my children? Anyone have thoughts?
120
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 14th, 2013 at 1:03 pm <#comment-230561>
Hi Jenelle
Welcome to EFB
Dont get caught up in the diagnosis of the abuser. Other people call my
mother a narc. but I dont believe she is one because she had control
over everything she did when it came to most other people. She did not

do certain controlling things in public.


About complete neglect , my mother fed, clothed and provided for me in
most things except my emotional needs, (emotional neglect) and she
discounted me in other ways too. If you read more of this site you will
see that the good stuff does not cancel the bad stuff and this is all
about healing from the damage by acknowledging the damage. (and that
there WAS damage) Accepting my mother didnt help: I had actually always
tried to do that. Validating myself is what helped. I think you will
like this website. There are TONS of articles and discussions about this
very thing.
Hugs, Darlene
121
*Marore*
February 14th, 2013 at 1:06 pm <#comment-230563>
Hi, Jenelle. No, I dont think you will be that way with your children.
Why not? Because you are aware, thats why.
I always tried to treat my children the opposite of how Id been
treated. I was very nurturing, very caring. I listened to them. I cared.
I told them I loved them and that they were special to me. I wasnt
harsh and cruel and manipulative with them, as my parents had been to me.
I knew what Id felt like as a child, how much Id been hurt and
wounded. I never wanted my children to feel that way.
Did I make mistakes? Absolutely, I did. All parents make mistakes. But
the important thing is to recognize them, to apologize for them, and to
attempt to change. My children saw me be fully human. I didnt try to
pretend to be perfect, which is how my parents tried to portray themselves.
So, I dont think you need to be scared. Parenting is tough, to be sure.
But you sound like a very kind and level-headed person, Jenelle. The
fact that you are concerned about how you will behave with your children
is such an important, key factor. I read lots of books on parenting and
child development, and I did my level best to not pass on any legacies
of child abuse.
People who usually go on to abuse their children are the ones who
havent yet recognized the damage that was perpetrated upon them when
they themselves were children. They often live in denial. Because of
that denial, they then go on and perpetrate upon their kids.
People like you usually do everything in their power NOT to behave as
your parents behaved.
Does any of what Ive said make sense? I feel such empathy toward you. I
had those same fears once. And now, my two children are grown, and we
have such a good relationship. We laugh, we share, we talk. Our
relationships are so, so different than the relationships (if you even
want to call them that!) that I had with my own parents.
Youre so smart to talk about this, Jenelle. I admire you.
122
*Jenelle*
February 14th, 2013 at 1:37 pm <#comment-230574>

Thanks for the encouragement Marore and Darlene! Im going to read up as


much as I can. I think I am a bit confused in the acceptance area. I
guess I mean that I am just accepting the fact that she will not change.
I do not find acceptance as an excuse for the behaviour. I know that I
can only be in charge of me and how I want to treat her. I treated her
with love and compassion to a safe extent , but I am NOW just only
getting to the point of realization of not feeling RESPONSIBLE for her.
Its an amazing feeling! I do not feel responsible anymore for taking
care of my parents emotional, spiritual needs. I dont know if that is
making sense.
I do however have times, especially during the holidays, that things I
thought were dealt with, hashed out in my mind and resolved on my end
seem to boil to the surface. It is just my husband and I right now, his
family is amazing but they live over in Europe. We have also just moved
out of state and had to leave friends and other family What is your
suggestion or ways you cope with the holidays? What are ways you dealt
with holidays in the past including birthdays, anniversaries which can
stir up bad memories? Especially when you would like to keep just the
low contact and not the no contact.
123
*Catherine Todd <http://!/>*
February 14th, 2013 at 2:35 pm <#comment-230593>
Darlene (#120), I STILL dont know what Validating myself means.
Who am I to say they are wrong when there are so many of them, and
only one of me? I loved what you wrote once about the truth does not
require a majority vote, but I STILL have no concept of self-image (a
decent one, anyway) and can only see my flaws.
124
*Catherine Todd <http://!/>*
February 14th, 2013 at 2:43 pm <#comment-230594>
Well, of course I can see my many talents etc. but what good does it
do when you are hated by so many people in a family, on both sides,
including my alcoholic son? Everyone keeps talking about how they raised
their children differently, and didnt treat them the same, and I can
assure you I never hurt my child, but as a single mother I had to work
three jobs and of course he had to have been affected by that, even
though he had extended family as babysitters, but no real family
interactions as I tried to keep him away from them to keep him from
being hurt, but its all come back on me all over again.
No, No, No. It seems to me that so many here have some kind of answer
that has eluded me all these years, and its impossible at this late
stage to find it or reform myself. It feels like Ive hit rock bottom
and thats all there is: ROCKS. Cant do much with that. I may be an
artist of sorts, but Im not a stone carver.
All I know how to do is blow it up with dynamite, and I dont work with
explosives or excavations, so I just sit here at a loss. I would build a
castle with these building blocks if I could, but Im not a stone cutter
or mason. All I can do is sit and stare.
125
*Catherine Todd <http://!/>*
February 14th, 2013 at 2:53 pm <#comment-230601>

Anna, in #109: I just saw your response, and I can say that I could
describe things in our home quite differently. What I meant about
disrespecting me was my husband not making my son clean his room and
siding against me on that issue, since my husbands mother cleaned his
room for him when he was growing up!
My husband has never used bad language or misogynist language or
treatment towards me or anyone else, just because he spoiled my son when
it came to chores. And I might have said I blamed myself, but I can
assure you that what was I supposed to do? I cant control everyone and
everything that goes on in a household, and I shouldnt be held
responsible. Its enough that I blame myself. I dont need to have more
heaped on me. Its not my fault or my responsibility that his father is
not perfect and I am not in a position to pick and choose and discard
everyone who isnt.
Please dont read more into what I say, and if I am saying too much then
I will surely limit what I say. Im sorry now that I posted the other
things today but I know there is no way to remove them. So I will
refrain in the future. Please excuse.
126
*Catherine Todd <http://!/>*
February 14th, 2013 at 2:57 pm <#comment-230604>
Ah, re-reading Annas post, I see the solution!
Please do not take my comments as offensive- we all make mistakes. A
truly great mother understands her faults and admits them.
So all I need to do is ADMIT MY MISTAKES and be a great mother.
Oh, yes and FORGIVE MYSELF.
In one post, Anna has straightened it all out and straightened me out too!
Well, Ill be. What took me so long!
127
*Catherine Todd <http://!/>*
February 14th, 2013 at 3:18 pm <#comment-230609>
Dear Darlene, please remove my posts so as to spare me being
psychoanalyzed by people here with the paragraphs I write. No one has
the full story as it take a book, and I already post too much. But I do
not expect to be put on the witness stand and have inferences made from
a few sentences or paragraphs, preceded by this is going to be hard for
you here [sic] by Anna in #109.
Do I have to explain and defend myself to people here? My sons
alcoholism is not my fault. My sons behavior at 40 years of age is not
my fault. My husband who has Aspergers has zeroed me out for many
years, but he is not a misogynist or a bad person. Yes this has been
very distressing for me. But who is Anna to determine what my sons
core problem is, from reading my posts?
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD REMOVE MY POSTS to prevent misrepresentations
being made or any more advice that is going to be hard for me to hear.

I thought this was a safe place to be. Obviously its not. And for
someone to say I hope you are not offended and then proceed to offend
is really out of line. Its a manipulatory practice that I dont condone.
There is plenty more that goes into an adult persons behavior than
solely the parents from 40 years ago. My son knew full well the
repercussions of drinking and he made his choice. He is exactly like his
biological father, not like my husband who adopted him. And this is my
fault, too? Why not list all the bad choices that Ive made while
youre at it, Anna? You didnt take this far enough!
Theres genetics and many, many, outside influences that shape people
outside of mother and father. How dare anyone suggest that they know all
about me from one quoted paragraph or the posts I have made? Am I
supposed to point finger s at others here, or work on MYSELF? I thought
this was about what I was trying to change in ME, not to give a
background and life history to an armchair psychologist who is going to
straighten me out.
They must be mind readers, or have personal knowledge of facts not in
evidence. If this is what happens when people share on this website, I
can no longer be a part of it.
128
*Jenelle*
February 14th, 2013 at 3:31 pm <#comment-230614>
Wow thanks so much for the Luke 17 website! Life changing scripture!
129
*Marore*
February 14th, 2013 at 3:35 pm <#comment-230619>
Hi, Jenelle. You ask some really great questions.
I am pretty low contact with my family now. Holidays and birthdays and
such can be rather difficult. I often found the occasions triggering. I
needed some help with my therapist to be able to establish clear
boundaries, and to learn how to better protect myself. Sometimes I
attend family functions, and sometimes I dont. I know that isnt very
helpful. I wish I had some better suggestions.
I often will make my decision whether or not to attend a family function
based upon just how vulnerable I am feeling. If I am feeling stressed,
and I am concerned at all about how I might be affected, I stay home. If
I am feeling confident and stronger, then I attend. Im not sure thats
the best solution, though. Im just sharing what has worked for me.
Since I am low contact, if I dont attend a family function, I usually
will text a Happy Birthday or a Merry Christmas (etc.) message, or
give a phone call. I try to stay cordial and caring, even if Im not
really sharing much depth with my family. I have learned, the hard way,
that these people can really hurt me if I dont protect myself.
I often would say, I wish I could come, but this year, we are
celebrating with a quiet Christmas at home. I tried to keep the topic
rather light and breezy, and not get into too much discussion about deep
matters.
Also, on anniversaries or on other dates when bad memories would arise,

I would try to take special care to be extra compassionate and kind to


myself on that day. I would plan some things, mostly small things, which
gave me joy and pleasure. Having the memories crop up can really be
painful. Whatever steps you can take to be on your own side and to be
kind to yourself will help immensely. I had to learn how to nurture
myself. Im still not fantastic at it, but Im learning. Setting
boundaries also has helped me, too.
Its all a learning process, I think.
Best of luck, Jenelle!
130
*Marore*
February 14th, 2013 at 3:41 pm <#comment-230620>
Oh, Jenelle, I just this second saw your comment #128. Yes, isnt Luke
17 Ministries amazing?
I cant even express how life-changing that web site was for me. It
helped me so much. I had been consumed by guilt and shame my entire
life, which all stemmed from so much child abuse and all of the cruel
messages I had received.
I learned so much from that site. I hope you will find some answers
there, too!
Warmly,
Marore
131
*Anna*
February 14th, 2013 at 3:54 pm <#comment-230625>
Catherine; I am so sorry I have obviously hurt you. I guess I just heard
what you said and thought of a solution. I tend to think like what is
typical for a man and ignore feelings in order to problem solve. Not
that its an excuse, but I was raised and have spent my life with people
completely disregarding my feelings. Really and truly I just wanted to
help. Please dont take me too seriously. You sound like a caring
person, and I think you deserve validation. We all make mistakes.
132
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 14th, 2013 at 5:48 pm <#comment-230657>
Catherine
As I have stated in the guidelines, I dont remove comments.
I am sorry that you dont feel safe, it is as safe as humanly possible
for me to make it. I didnt take the comment from Anna the way that you
did. The problem when people talk about thier children as though the
child is the abuser is that is exactly how we have all been talked to by
our families. As though WE are the problem. This site is about healing
from the individual side of things; whenever someone on here posts about
a grown child in a netative way, we have problems. It triggers everyone.
Something that helped me was to understand that my children are allowed
to be angry with me even if I wasnt the abuser, because I was there. I
was the mother that couldnt or wouldnt (they are entitled to feel both
ways) protect them from the emotional abuse that they were around. And

the (adult) children on this site are entitled to feel that way too.
Everyone here is trying to grown in the truth. Anna (in my opinion) was
just trying to help you see what you said in your post.
I am sorry that you are so offended by what goes on here and that you
feel you must leave. In my opinion, there is no safer and more
respectful place then this one.
Hugs, Darlene
133
*Catherine Todd <http://!/>*
February 15th, 2013 at 10:41 am <#comment-230934>
I am asking again, please remove my comments so as to protect others on
this site from being triggered and to protect my son from ever having
to read them. I will not post anything else about him or about my
personal relationship here. That should take care of the problem.
134
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 15th, 2013 at 11:25 am <#comment-230944>
Catherine
I do not remove comments; it is not a simple matter. I would have to go
through them all again and I dont have time to do that.
Darlene
135
*Catherine Todd <http://!/>*
February 15th, 2013 at 11:45 am <#comment-230952>
Then leave my comments and I hope everyone accepts my apology for
triggering them by writing about my family. It wont happen again. And
I accept my part in it.
136
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 15th, 2013 at 12:41 pm <#comment-230978>
Thank you Catherine
hugs, Darlene
137
*Oona*
February 15th, 2013 at 7:40 pm <#comment-231080>
Hello, This is a nice extensive thread, on dysfunctional mother,
daughters relationships. I have been reading this thread for the last
two weeks. I am a recovering adult myself (four years of actual
physiological care) from my childhood spiritual/ emotional abuse by my
mother/ parents. (I believe both parents are to blame) Mothers just
seems to be the culprit because fathers are busy working or
unavailable and mothers by their nature are always watching, snooping,
and controlling. All my siblings are all adult victims of a
dysfunctional family. I would like clarification on this Luke 17
website, being agnostic I have read it and I dont understand the
correlation between it and the mother daughter dysfunctional paradigm.
The Bible (respectfully here) is a collection of stories, written
thousands of years ago in another language and dictated by the morals of
the times. I am not finding a coping mechanism in it. But I do find the

personal stories with in this blog to be validating to my cause. My own


personal experience is that my dysfunctional family always blamed my
father (alcohol, drugs, disillusionment, failure) but when he suddenly
up in died 4 years ago we all figured out who the real culprit was, my
mother. For 52 years she hid behind my father and pointed fingers at
him. He is the abuser, he does not go to church, he never loved
US. We were wrong he loved us children more than my mother ever did. My
father left us children in his will with a 4.5 million dollar trust he
had been planning for years. And my mother hid the will and tried to
change the estate names so she could keep control of all the money, and
make us beg for what was already ours. Obviously the (will) money was
controlling her. I have never seen the money and I am not begging for
anything.
138
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 16th, 2013 at 10:35 am <#comment-231350>
Hi Oona
Welcome to EFB
Yes, both parents are usually to blame! Even if one of them is the major
or primary abuser the other one could have done something to protect the
child.
As far as luke 17, that is not related to this site so I cant answer
your question about that.
About the mother / father stuff, yes, it is very common that the wrong
parent takes most of the blame. It has really helped me to face the
damage they both caused to me.
I have seen money used to control (or even just the thought of money)
way too often. It is so sad
Thanks for sharing,
Hugs, Darlene
139
*Anna*
February 16th, 2013 at 12:50 pm <#comment-231381>
Nancy has clearly neglected her daughter in many important ways, and
tried to cover it up so as not to take responsibility, unfortunately, in
an abusive way. I generally find this a pattern most people exhibit on
some level, and the intensity of it generally has to do with the degree
of neglect.
Being a parent is not easy. It demands that we recognize the neglect we
suffered in our own childhood (and that may not have been apparent until
parenthood) deal with that neglect in a healthy way. We cant just
pretend, and expect to give to our children in a non-neglectful way, if
we are walking around in a fog of self delusion.
More simply, if someone is flawed and they cant or wont take
responsibility and stop blaming in order to get to a healthy place about
the neglect, they are just doing what they have been taught. They become
blaming themselves, and they take the same road their parents took.
On the surface, my own parents were extremely neglectful because it was
what they learned. Just below the surface on a subconscious level, it
must me God/Love working through them, them providing me with little of
my emotional needs was purposeful indeed. I had nothing, so I had
nothing to lose by getting off the path they were on and onto the right
one (I mess up but get back up), because they made it so unbearable, it
was less painful to deal with my issues of neglect.

My own parents sacrificed me for their own selfishness, and because of


it, I have been saved. Truly, its like God stepped in.
140
*Oona <http://emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 20th, 2013 at 12:36 pm <#comment-233389>
So Darlene and good folk from EFB I ask you this; Once you have stopped
communication with the toxic individual (our mother), how do you get the
rest of your family/ siblings to leave you in peace? In other words,
they do not, have not, or will not, believe in the M-D paradigm. Of
course, (my siblings are male) therefore I am out if control,
ungrateful, and a spoiled child (to them Nancy is right). Just today one
of my siblings said Look at all the things you have (As if my mother
bestowed on me my husband, job, and higher education < funny, I see
humor in that.) They cannot separate physical amenities, such as
receiving a washer and dryer as a "gift" (which as really indebtedness)
from the words "I love you". I don t know how to ingest this. Do you
have a thread on this?
Hello Anna thread 139, Neglect is an excellent answer and it is a resent
revelation for me. I never though of neglect until someone mentioned
food and shelter are not emotionally nurturing.
141
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
February 20th, 2013 at 1:59 pm <#comment-233420>
Hi Oona
This subject is touched on throughout the entire website. There is no
fast or easy answer but it might help if you start in the categories for
family and mother daughter.
Hugs, Darlene
142
**broken**
March 1st, 2013 at 3:08 pm <#comment-238455>
Hi Darlene,
I just started reading your stuff. I recently have cut my mother out of
my life and am lost and torn. This article almost made me die inside.
Sounds like my mother. She has always been there when I needed her but
has put my children in danger by her drinking and drug use. Every time I
express that she has done something to hurt my feelings or disrepect my
wishes for my 3 yr old and 5 yr old, she turns into the devil herself. I
lived in a homeless shelter with her as a child. Then my grandma came
out to care for us while my mother went to school and partied. When my
grandma moved out she shipped me and my brother to live with my dad for
4 yrs. Then when he decided four yrs of paying child support for
children he was caring for was enough he cut her off. She responded
saying she had full custody and would make sure he never sees us.
Growing up she took me to so many psychologist and had me on every drug
possible. She also commited me to the mental hospital many times as a
teen. In my adult life she has tried to convince other adults (families
and friends) to help commit me, my assumation is so she can take my kids
and receive state help for having them since their dads are not present.
I grew up a cutter because I had to feel something because I was numb. I
am torn because she is always there when I need her but behind my back
tearing about all relationships I have with others. She also tells me
that I need to either stop working and go to school or go to school and

quit working at a job that I have been promoted twice in one yr. I cant
understand why a mother wouldnt be proud that her previous drug addict
daughter has her life together but instead she would like to put her
down and stop the only things that make her feel good about herself. She
has also tried to break up my relationship so that I would move back
home because when I am there I pay all the bills though she make 3x the
money. I have recently seeked counseling because I had to figure out
what was wrong with me. My counselor read a conversation over text
messages between me and my mom and told me I need to cut her out because
she is incapable of love. I am so torn and feel weak. My biggest fear is
I will give in because she loves my kids and I have ripped them from my
life. I know have to go see a childhood trauma counselor and my
counselor said if I want my kids to grow up healthy they need to stay
away from the woman that taught me at a young age that there was
something wrong with me when there is nothing wrong with me. I have
changed my number but have no other family here. I am scared. She has
threatened suicide before when I stopped talking to her once and I am
worried sick for her and my concerns have been voiced to her parents and
fell on deaf years. I dont know that I am strong enough for this
jounery. I have overcome drugs, abuse pyshical, mental, and sexual but
this seems harder than any of that. Reading your words helps alot. Thank
you.
143
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
March 2nd, 2013 at 7:59 am <#comment-238968>
Hi *broken*
Welcome to emerging from broken!
I didnt trust myself for a long time and I didnt know if I was strong
enough but I just keep trying to see the truth about the way things were
and I kept believing that IF it was true that my depressions, issues
etc. were all rooted in the dysfunctional relationships that I had
growing up, that there was hope for me to recover if I saw the truth
about it. And I did. I began to see that it was actually dangerous for
MY kids to be around these toxic people too.
IT IS very hard but when I got through it I found healing, I found my
identity and I began to live in a way I never imagined; in wholenss and
freedom. I hope you will read more of what I have written in this
website. I have shared hundreds of examples of how I came out of the fog
and saved myself.
Hugs, Darlene
144
*Barbara <http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/>*
March 3rd, 2013 at 6:15 am <#comment-239607>
Ah Nancy I think you are channeling so many of our Narcissistic
Mothers, mine included.
I have wonderful relationships with my children. They are growing into
bright, empathic, loving, responsible people. I encourage them to be who
THEY are, not what I want them to be. It is ZERO sacrifice for me to
encourage or appreciate them. ZERO.
My NMother once told me: Make sure, when your children get older, they
know how much they owe you. (this was a huge truth-leak!)
My response: My children owe me nothing. I brought them into this world
and I owe them everything. I give it freely & gladly and will be glad

when they are ready and fly away. That is what they are supposed to do
and its my job to get them there and support them until the day I die &
after.
My NMother was not pleased and stomped off. She used to say I was going
to kill her. Frankly, I think healing is the process of killing her
negative messages. And I am glad to see them go.
145
*Anna*
March 3rd, 2013 at 6:39 am <#comment-239620>
Hi Barbara,
I love how you put this woman in her place. Good for you! Your mother
reminds me of a comment my grandmother used on my mother and her sister.
Since I can remember, she would say in the most pious and dramatic way
the worst thing that could ever happen is if my daughters never wanted
to see me again. My grandmother used sympathy to exert control. Her
daughters have spent most of their lives living within a couple of
blocks of her. When my own mother and father moved 20 minutes away, she
punished them by refusing to visit or help. Best years of my young
life were when we moved away. Unfortunately, we moved back within 5
years, and my parents have been living near her for over 30 years. They
have lived their lives for this woman.
Its true that every now and then a narcissist says something that
reveals them for the monsters that they are.
Anna
146
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
March 3rd, 2013 at 9:27 am <#comment-239695>
Hi Barbara
Love your comments about my children own me nothing! I feel the same
way about that! (and that goes for ALL children! Love is never about
obligation and children who are loved, will reciprocate that love, NOT
out of obligation but out of love!)
Hugs, Darlene
147
*OnMyWay*
March 4th, 2013 at 1:37 pm <#comment-240421>
Thanks for posting this.
I have heard various comments from my mother over the years when I have
attempted to talk with her about my childhood. One remark she made was,
We never heard the word self-esteem when you kids were growing up so we
didnt know to care about it. Another, We thought that if we held a
baby / child we would spoil them. Another Some people just cant get
over the past, can they. Another, What is wrong with you that you
would think that way? My mother believes that there is a hierarchy and
children are under the mother. No exceptions. Children are not allowed
to confront their mother. The mother does not have to answer to what
they say / do because they are above you. Might equals right. When I
first started setting limits and boundaries with my mother it did not go
over well. Like when I said, I do not want to hear remarks / comments

that are negative, critical and judgmental about me. My mothers


response was, I am not going to monitor what I say for you! The more I
pulled away, the more cruel she became. If I told her something she did
/ said bothered me, she would do it more. Limiting contact / no contact
meant poor, victimized mother. She would say, Are you trying to punish
me?
Thanks for all the validation.
148
**broken**
March 4th, 2013 at 6:55 pm <#comment-240547>
Darlene
I have not checked your blog in days and was glad today to see you
response. I have changed my number yet my mother found a way today to
contact me. I was just talking to my counselor today and told her about
your site. Her eyes lit up. She asked so many questions. I find myself
returning to read your many stories when I start beating myself up. And
others comments are nice to read as well. I was starting to feel really
guilty about the kids until she contacted me demanding an apology. I got
on here to see your reply and after being worked up all day your words
were really calming. My counselor was wondering if you had a book or
know of some good ones. My boyfriend told me i was only making things
worse by going through all the messages from me and my mothers current
falling out. I told him that it was just me reassuring myself that I was
not wrong in my choice. I can see that being self destructive and erased
all the messages as to not be tempted again. I have left so many abusive
relationships with men, I was taught young that was love. The last two
men my mother was married to were abusive to her and us. And since then
I have never seen her with anyone healthy. I learned the hatred and
psychical abuse was how you loved someone. I dealt out the violence to
them as much as they gave it to me. I was not innocent to this abuse at
all. I think at one time I fed off of it because of my hate inside for
myself and others. When I had my son and the abuse continued I allowed
it behind closed doors. When my son was about 18 months he father threw
me over the couch and over my son into a wall and held me up by my
throat. Seeing the fear in my sons eyes made me walk away and never
look back or tolerate such a thing. My mother has never touched me but
has damaged me deeply and on several occasions but my kids in danger
(which is why after I left my ex I moved out of her house) she almost
hurt my son twice and could have killed him when she got drunk,
overdosed on sleeping pills and crawled into his crib with him to sleep.
I had thought she was better but she just hides it well. I was crying
yesterday because my daughter kept saying she wanted to go to grandmas
house, then I became concerned as to what happened last time because my
son (who loves his grandma to death) said mom I dont want to go to
grandmas, I just want to stay here with you all the time. I am rambling
but it feels good to get this out someone where others understand. My
boyfriend can only be so supportive when I hide it from him and refuse
to let him in at all to see my pain. I am finally coming to terms with
Bi-polar and getting help for months. I understand myself more than I
ever had. I am in school to become a counselor and really want to keep
the children off medications that make them feel they are different or
that there is something wrong with them from a young age. No child
should ever have to label themselves so young.
Barbara
You sound like an amazing mom. Kudos for standing up to your mom. I too
am a huge supporter in self esteem in children and allowing them to love

themselves for who they are. It is so important in life to understand


that everyone is different and different is ok. I am a very pretty girl
according to others but every time I have looked in the mirror since I
was about 10 or 11 I wanted to smash the mirror. I have colored me hair
constantly and have gotten many piercings in my face to be the girl that
I think is pretty. And your comment about them owing us nothing because
we chose to bring them to this world is beyond the truth.
Onmyway
Hang in there. I did not realize that this was a form of abuse til my
counselor explained it to me. We will struggle and we may fall but there
is always a reason to get back up. My mother also is the victim in
many of these fall outs we have. There has to be a time when we put our
foot down and decide that we have had enough. My motivation is to do it
for my children because Darlene is right. Surrounding your children to
toxic people may damage them in the end.
I am very blessed that my siblings have come to see my mother for who
she is except one (who will probably get the whip lash now that we are
all gone). I want to protect her but she prefers to ignore it. I think
its because she grew up watching her father pound my brother like he was
nothing. They say in a home of abuse theres the unspoken rule do not
speak, do not ask because no one will listen.
Thank you again for the comments and blogs. Like I said they really have
been my only relief through all of this. My counselor says I need a plan
for when I start to feel like I am going to give in to my guilt and I
come here when I start to feel the need to reach out.
149
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
March 5th, 2013 at 8:16 am <#comment-240858>
Hi OnMyWay
Oh I hear that are you trying to punish me? thing too! (lots of those
things!)
Something that I realized is that the thing about parents knowing or not
knowing about self-esteem as though that knowledge would have helped
them, isnt the point. That is like saying if I knew kicking you would
HURT, I wouldnt have done it. There are so many lame excuses for
treating people in ways that they would never want to be treated themselves.
Hugs, Darlene
150
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
March 5th, 2013 at 8:22 am <#comment-240863>
Hi Broken
The work of Alice Miller has been found to be helpful by many! I found
her only a couple of years ago but her work is very validating. As for
my book, I have one coming out this spring.
I am glad that my response comforted you.
Hugs, Darlene
151
**broken**
March 5th, 2013 at 8:38 am <#comment-240871>
I agree that claiming ignorance for not building self esteem is not
right. Last night I took another stand to my mother in a polite way. She

threatened to take me to court and take my kids, which means once again
she will be calling Child Protective services as harassment to me. She
immediatley called my boyfriend and tried to convince him that I was
cheating on him. He took it with a grain of salt. Last night she used
her famous line I brouht you into this life, I can take you out and if
I cant you will regret this and I will ruin you which I have heard so
many times before. Never before have I been so scared of my mother. She
is threatening to go to daycare to take my kids out of state. I wont
even take my kids to daycare right now. Thank you for the book
recommendation.
152
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
March 5th, 2013 at 8:41 am <#comment-240873>
Hi *Broken*
Those are serious threats. Can you speak to your therapist about a
making a plan in case your mother acts on any of these threats? They
should be reported somewhere for your protection.
Hugs, Darlene
153
**broken**
March 5th, 2013 at 8:46 am <#comment-240874>
Darlene,
I have talked to my father and the kids are not returning to daycare til
I get a note there that if she shows up and tries to take the kids since
I am concerned about her drinking and drug use then they are to call the
police. I see my counselor again tomorrow. Once again I dont know how
much more of this I can take. I have blocked her on my facebook and
changed my number but dont want her to not be able to contact me through
my boyfriend becuase then she can drag me to court for grandparent
rights and she has a really good way of looking good and getting what
she wants. Very good manipulater to those who dont know her. I do not
doubt she will drag me through court to make me suffer. Every time she
doesnt get what she wants she calls CPS on me. I am use to that. I know
they are serious and am scared. I am worried that I will break. I cant
take much more of this while I am trying to get healthy which is all I
told her last night.
154
**broken**
March 5th, 2013 at 8:47 am <#comment-240875>
And I see my counselor again tomorrow. Who if my mom gets a partner in
crime, I hope that her word and my other dr is enough to keep me out of
there.
155
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
March 5th, 2013 at 2:40 pm <#comment-241040>
Hi Everyone ~
I just published a new post about how I was convinced that I was the
problem and the ways that belief came out. My mother had a way of
reminding me about how she saw me too, which of course got in the way of
the truth. Lots of examples of how my mom made sure that MY focus was on
MY faults in order to deflect and even justify hers hers. Here is the link;
Toxic mother daughter relationship ~ when mom says the problem is YOU

<http://emergingfrombroken.com/toxic-mother-daughter-relationships-when-mom-says
-you-are-the-problem/>
Looking forward to the discussion there;
hugs, Darlene
156
*Kalispell*
March 23rd, 2013 at 12:11 pm <#comment-248586>
Ah yes, what goes around, comes around, and you are going to be sorry
you arent toeing the line and supporting my fantasy world (like
everyone else) about how Im good, and kind, and loving and supportive,
and profoundly wise and successful.
My mother doesnt use Bible quotes to remind me Im going to be sorry
someday. She uses money. She has a lot (I guess, maybe one an a half
million). Im modest but comfortable and secure. And it is very clear
Ive been disowned.
Im supposed to be sorry
dont need it, and $700K
much to pay for spending
aggressive meanness. Im
inheritance, but also no

about it. And it would have been nice. But I


or whatever i would have ended up with is too
the next 20 years dealing with her passive
quite satisfied with the bargain Ive made: no
anguish inflicted from her.

And I cant help but to imagine forward her life: in a couple years my
stepfather will die. This will be hard on her. For all she thinks shes
so smart and competent (and she is in some ways), shes very dependent.
I know shes worried about him dying.
At first shell turn to her friends. She has a cozy little group of
about 9 or 10 friends shes close to. But my mother was is younger than
most of them. Eventually they will drop away. I remember my grandmother
saying about her friends how they disappeared: one day there would be an
incident, then the children would sweep in, put mom in a home
convenient to them, close up the house, whirlwind through whatever had
to be done on the few days they could take off of work, and the friend
would just begone.
Ten years from now, my mother will be 80. Shes smart enough to see that
she will be dependant eventually on family. Yes, money will buy her a
nice assisted living situation, but money cant do what family canjust
look at Brooke Astor. Billions and died in her own filth neglected by
her family.
So whos in my mothers family? Its very small. Me and my brother. Im
goneif she does not get a clue, make some concessions and amends and
(horrors!) apologize, I will let her die in the mud. I wont even know.
I wont even care to know.
Theres my brother. She thinks they are close, but the reality is they
have a pleasant superficial relationship, and his wife is cordial and
friendly, but my sisterinlaw doesnt really like her. (and my mother
doesnt really like my SIL, but they get along). My brother takes my
mother out for mothers day and her bday alone. SIL, whos own mother is
dead, isnt interested. No problems, but no affection eitherand SIL was
not too patient with her problematic mother when her mother was dying.
Shes not going to be nurturing.
What will my brother do? Hell do the right thing that is expected and

looks good. Hell help her move into a nursing home, talk to doctors,
visit on holidays and maybe once a month or every six weeks. Call every
couple weeks, handle major crises. And do it pleasantly. But he wont be
a social outlet, he will never take her on vacation or to the movies or
worry if shes happy. She wont be a part of their life altho hell tell
her a bit about his vacation, etc Hell be dutiful.
My mother has two sisters and one sister in law. The sister in law
annoys my mother and is about 10 years older. She isnt handling life
well and is semi estranged from her children and needs a lot of help to
stay at home. My stepfather helps her; my mother has said: SIL need not
think Im going to do anything for her when hubby is gone. My mother has
contempt that SIL is not managing her life well and is dependent. I
remember thinking when mom said that: someday that very well could be you.
One sister is married and is going to move to an out of state retirement
community in a year or two. This sister is nice enough but ditzy. She
wont be available to brighten moms final years.
The other sister is a piece of work. My aunt fucked my husband and split
up our marriagethen walked away from the whole mess. We were close as
sisters, but my aunt just walked away from the relationship and we never
spoke again. This was about 20 years ago. My mother sided with her
sister. This is a grave mistake on my mothers part (but part of my
mothers need to devalue me; Im not supposed to mind that my aunt
screwed my husband then screwed me). My mother and my aunt email
regularly and see each other once every five years or so. My aunt has
NEVER lifted a finger to help anyone ever in her life. She does not put
herself out for anyone or anything. Shes semi reclusive and a bit
strange. She will NOT be there for my mother in her old age.
Then there are my three children, moms only grandchildren. My youngest
son, in college to be a chemical engineer will have nothing to do with
her. He does not like how she treats me, and does not like how she
treats his oldest brother (her favorite grandson), and does not like how
she treats him. He considers her a hypocrit. He too pretty much told her
that either she apologize or he was gone and she chose the dump-grandson
option. Last year she loved him with all her heart, this year hes
invisible and worthless to her.
My middle son, a hardworking moral law student, calls her now an again.
Hes been very distressed by the break up of her and me and a few weeks
ago went up to visit her (we live 1200 miles away) and discuss the
issue. He couldnt believe she was as bad as I said she was and her
written letters to me over the last year portrayed her and he wanted to
talk to her about it. He came back stunned and sickened. He was
particularly shocked by how she just threw away my youngest son when he
asked for a apology. He could not believe how coldly she devalued and
dismissed and cut off her grandson. And if she can do that to one
grandson, she can do that to him She took no responsibility for
anything, did not want to try joint t therapy, and accused me of things
he knew were not true. He was sickened by it and shocked. He had drunk
the koolaid, he had thought she was a loving grandmother and kind
mother. And now he thinks shes cold and selfish and deeply disturbed
for all she has this great facade that fools most people. He told me if
he has any relationship with her, it will only be superficial. And I
know whats going to happenhes going to drift away. He will attend my
stepfathers funeral, and thats likely to be the last time my mother
ever sees him.

My sons fiancee is appalled at her too. Shes in a ph.d program for


psychology, and has no good opinion about rejecting mothers and lots of
theories about what is wrong with my mother. She likes me. They will
have children and a happy, successful, productive lifeand my mother
wont be part of it. Oh, she might get a picture of their children, but
that will be that.
My oldest son has a drinking problem, a rx pill problem, and is heavily
addicted to very potent pot. Addiction runs strongly in both sides of my
sons heritage. Nobody in my family or his fathers family who were
caught in addiction ever got better. Some do, but my family and my exs
family dont. My son barely graduated from HS and his career is mooching
and hanging out in the gym. He works part time in a gym. He is very
dishonest, has episodes of sudden violence (he knocked me to the ground,
choked my middle son and spit on his youngest brother, and thats just
the beginning). He gets aggitated and is very anxious. He can also be
charming. he was his grandmothers favorite. She does not believe he has
any substance abuse problems; she said it is just a personality conflict
with me (my fault, always my fault). Shes a sitting duck. Shell see
him briefly for a couple times a year, and its highly possible he will
exploit her. this will be one of those crises my brother will have to
handle. But in the long run, my oldest will not be of any use to her.
But I would have. I would have taken good care of her, far better than
what she ever did for me. If she were pleasant to meshe wouldnt even
have to love me or be close to mejust curb her passive aggressive
dislike (which apparently is impossible), Id include her in my life and
my kids lives. Shed see her grandchildren and great grandchildren
(when they come), be spend a couple days a week with me, get taken
shopping and to the movies and brought on family vacations. Id research
her medical and living options and advocate and watch out for her in
nursing homes, etc Id care if she were happy and comfortable and
included. My brother wont do that. Hell do decent bare minimumand no
more.
She better hopes she doesnt get the family curse of dementia. or end up
blind or cripple with arthritis of have long bouts with cancer or fall
prey to so many of the illnesses that make life painful, difficult and
isolating for the elderly. 1/3 of all seniors die with dementia. 2/3 of
all seniors have long term crippling disabilities. The odds are not in
her favor.
I will never need her again. The day is going to come when shes going
to need me. A
When these
sorry and
you really
rebound on
YOU.

crappy parents look at their kids and say, Someday youll be


what goes around comes around, all I can do is think, Do
believe that your selfish unloving choices are not going to
you? Do you really not see where this is going to end up for

You hear about a lot of mothers in their sixties and early seventies who
cut off their kids. They are always indignant and full of victim stories
and martyrdom and justifications about how they did everything and dont
understand and how their love was unwavering but there is something
wrong with their spoiled ungrateful child. It has NOTHING to do with
them. There are websites devoted to these women. I look at them and roll
my eyes.
They talk of karma. But dont see that their pain and anguish and not

understanding is their own bad karma coming back to them. They have bad
relationships with their children because they created bad relationships
with their children.
And I always wonder what happens to these self righteous bitter unloving
delusional old ladies when they are in their 80s and 90s, and fragile
and failing and cant drive and are dependent and needy and isolated and
lonely. Do they ever reach out after ten, 15 years of silence and
apologize and take responsibility for their part of the problem. Or do
they go down to the death clinging to their stubborn belief that they
were wonderful and did nothing wrong and its their children?
Those websites that cater to cut off mothers have very few old ladies in
their 80s on them. You never see threads titled, How do i fix it, My
daughter hasnt spoken to me in 12 years, I know I was wrong.
Do they ever think, I should have just apologized 2 decades ago. I
was not a good mother, I let you down, it must have been hard on you
having me for a mother,
I am sorry. Please forgive me.
Less than 30 words, and it would make all the difference. Everyone would
win,. but they cant do it. I can do it, and do with all three of my
kids. But my mother cannot. Shes going to impoverish herself
tremendously in the quality of her life because she cannot say them and
cannot see me as a valuable person. Ironically Im probably the most
valuable person in her life.
Oh well, elder care is a nightmare and Im going to be free of it. Yay me.
157
*Janie*
March 24th, 2013 at 9:14 am <#comment-248829>
Kalispell,
I so hear you! Isnt it amazing that most folks refuse to believe that
mothers can be mean, selfish, manipulative and cruel?
My mean sisters have for so long tried to fight me every step of the
way, when my mother has asked for help with her health issues (what
would I know? Im just a nurse for 20 years, lol) Then I realized: my
mother was using medical issues to pit one person against the other. So,
the common sense solution would be, let my sisters take over to their
hearts content!! They call my elderly aunt, a long retired nurse, who is
showing signs of senilty, to question everyhting I say. So, I guess her
input would be valuable here as well! Not worrying about it. My mother
is and was mean spirited, spiteful, attention seeking, and heaps all of
her hate and resentment of her own mother and sister upon my head. NOT
IT!!!! I am low contact with her, and give very little information abt
my persona life. Only, how well I am doing, and how wonderful my
relationship is, just the good things, to irritate her, dontcha know, lol!
My sisters can repay all of the free babysitting and free college
educations by looking after my mother in her final years. I know this
will make me look like the bad daughter,to the extended family, some
of them, anyway, once again, and I really dont care!!! Im too busy
living my own life, pursuing my career dreams and future, to worry about it.
Bravo to you for taking up scuba! Doesnt it feel great to follow your
own interests, not those prescribed to you? I am learning to snowboard,
I sudy middle eastern dance, and have also renewed my passion for
knitting. I take my mother in law out to the knitting group, and out to
lunch. Her, I look after, as she has not been the source of misery in my

life
158
*Buffy*
April 8th, 2013 at 4:36 am <#comment-253617>
I need a new mum. :(
Im 26 and divorced and now feel I have to divorce my parents and NM!!
Shes never once told me she loves me or is proud of me.
Only words like ashamed, and disappointed. I feel useless, anxious, and
on the edge.
Is it possible to adopt a mum? I live in New Zealand but would love an
Email from someone willing to give any advice:)
Thanx for reading :)
159
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
April 8th, 2013 at 10:28 am <#comment-253751>
Hi Buffy
Welcome to EFB
I write a lot about how I had to become my own mom in this recovery
process. I had to learn to fill the void that my own parents left in me
and it is doable! There is hope for healing!
Hugs, Darlene
160
*lia <http://none/>*
April 17th, 2013 at 12:03 pm <#comment-260082>
Im with you on this Anna.
And my son learned to disrespect me by watching my own husband
disrespect me all the years we were together. I was never physically
abused (I would never have stood for that) but I didnt even recognize
the mental and emotional abuse that was going on and how I was
completely ignored and zeroed out for all of my adult life living with
him. So my son never did see a 50/50 supportive relationship growing up.
Of course children DO learn what they live..It is a fact..not a
criticism..and Anna I think that you explained that very respectfully
and effectivelyOf course children would learn that devaluing and
undermining and mental and emotional abuse was the normWith emotional
abuse the bruises and the welts are on the inside instead of the
outside, and they take far longer to heal. To live with it is soul
destroying. To live for years and years with your father mentally and
emotionally abusing your motherI personally know is extremely damaging
To read and hear a mother here say that her son is a bad seed and
words like she should have had an abortion or given him up for adoption.
That he is a basically a bad loser and that a she is glad that he never
had childrenthat he is wrong for feeling how or what he feels (also
about how ridiculous it is that he still feels bad that his best
friend was banned from his home)How a child has to be dragged to
counselling again and againand how it changed nothingand to hear how
anyones adult child is not being supported somehow with the resulting
problems he has..and to hear how he has no mother until he comes back
and says that HE will change

Sure is triggering Darlene..and I think how you responded was really


great and spot on alsomany thanks.
161
*Mitzi*
July 21st, 2013 at 5:27 am <#comment-413299>
Wow! It just never ceases to amaze me how the abusive mothers make
excuses and place the blame back on the children! I have posted on here
before regarding the abuse I suffered from my mother from the time I was
three years until now-if I had continued to allow her to.
I couldnt read all the responses to this so if someone has already made
this comment, sorry, but I think it is important enough to post again
anyway!
EXCERPT
The biggest truth leak in Nancys little guilt trip about her own
beliefs was this: Theres nothing in there (in the Bible) about
honoring you children. In fact it says spare the rod, spoil the child.
She makes this statement to PROVE that the parents have all the rights
and children have none. By stating the bible says nothing about honoring
children, she says that the (biblical) teachings actually communicate
that children dont have ANY right to being honored! And then she backs
that belief up with saying; IN FACT the bible advocates abuse. See
more at:
http://emergingfrombroken.com/what-goes-around-comes-around-used-as-a-fear-and-c
ompliance-tactic/#sthash.oWISIlrh.dpuf
My mother constantly told me how I if I did not honor her my days on
earth would be shortened. I heard the scripture a million times at least
through out my life.
Although I was aware of the scripture that follows it, I did not want to
Bible Fight with her. However I shouted at her Read the scripture
DIRECTLY below it!. So many abusive parents USE the Bible towards their
children and USE this scripture OVER AND OVER again. The thing that
parents, who think they KNOW the Bible tend to deliberately leave out
the scripture DIRECTLY below it: Colossians 3: 20 AND 21:
20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing
to the Lord.
21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged
Still loving this site and the one on Facebook!
Mitzi
162
*sahitha*
July 30th, 2013 at 10:02 pm <#comment-418710>
I do not know where they get these ideas from? My own mother was not a
Christian and had no access to the Bible but she often threatened me or
challenged me that when I had kids of my own, then I would understand
the difficulty in raising them, when my kids blamed me then I would
understand what she was going through.
She said she had not done anything wrong and insisted that I would find
this out when I had kids of my own. I always felt that she competed with

me and acted like a b****. Excuse my language but that describes her
accurately.
She constantly compared me to her in every area including education,
career, marriage. Just because she did not like her life she wanted the
same for me. I dont think she was ever happy for me unless it served
her. When I made some good advances in my career, she was not happy for
me. She did not encourage me nor pat me on the back as I had hoped. I
was taken aback by that reaction because by then I had become an adult
and knew what a normal reaction from a mother to her daughters success
would be like. That was the beginning of my exploration of my
relationship with her.
All she was concerned about was that I was still single and people were
asking them questions about it. Of course, she was not concerned that I
was single and alone in a different country but she was more concerned
that she had to answer all those people. Again, she was only considering
herself and her needs in the equation. Superficial things like pride
were more important to her than her daughters happiness.
She did not miss any opportunity to make me responsible for her misery
so to speak. I did not understand what was so upsetting about me walking
away from an abusive marriage and finding my own life. I would have been
proud of such a daughter but would not wish that abuse in the first place.
Apparently she lost her face in the community because I walked away
from the marriage and brought about the stigma of a divorced daughter
on her. She never supported me during the abusive marriage and so when I
finally decided to leave, I chose to keep them out of loop as they only
drained my energy and I had to invest my energy into my career. She does
not care that I had been dealing with all the mess on my own. All she
cares about is her reputation.
I wonder if there truly is a reputation or she just made up this thing
about her in her head. I have no idea what kind of reputation she is
on about. If that is something derived from my success then how can it
be hers?. I do not know where all these abusers get this concept of
feeling important in society not because of their achievements but
because of their childrens? They do not respect us nor want us but they
want the laurels and accolades of raising a child that had achieved some
success in the world.
Well, do they then treat the child (adult by then) properly? No. They
still want her/him to be a slave to them and raise their own self-image.
This is such a twisted and distorted view of a parent feeling proud of
their childs achievement.
163
*Quintana Hoyne*
August 11th, 2013 at 4:30 am <#comment-427239>
You have made me confident in raising my own children. You have given me
the courage and the ground to not look at myself for problems but simply
be. Be better, be better by separating my self-identity from my influences.
164
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
August 12th, 2013 at 7:55 am <#comment-427892>
Hi Quintana
Thank you for your note! I had to look at the truth about why I had the

issues that I had and where they came from in the first place. The
damage was healed when I began to validate it. :)
hugs, Darlene
165
*Kylie Kleeven*
November 18th, 2013 at 4:18 am <#comment-591107>
Reading Nancys post, eerily reminded me of my adoptive mother.
Thanks for highlighting this post Darlene.
Kylie.
166
*Cynthia Barga*
December 30th, 2013 at 5:33 am <#comment-740380>
You cant lump all estrangements into the category of being caused by
abuse. I am the mother of an estranged son that was not caused by abuse
on my part. I dont say that lightly or out of any sense of self
righteousness. Trust me when I say that when estrangement happens to a
mother that loves her child more than she loves her own life, it is the
most painful and agonizing experience there is except possibly that of
losing a child to death. Part of the process of coming to terms with
such an estrangement is the most brutal and honest dissection of all
your parenting shortcomings and mistakes as the possible cause because
you want so much to find the reason for the estrangement and fix it.
Sometimes, however, estrangement has nothing at all to do with the
parents and that is a most painful conclusion at which to arrive because
it puts it outside your own realm of control and ability to fix. As
children of abuse, we may find that especially hard to fathom but it
does happen more often than we expect. Let me say this: as a mother of
an estranged child I came to the liberating conclusion that being the
mother of this remarkable and much loved child did not guarantee me the
right to be in his life. He never belonged to me. I was only given the
responsibility of raising him for which I will always be grateful. There
is nothing that ever gave me more joy than being a mother. If the
decision to estrange yourself from your parents only belongs to those
who have been abused, then it is not an inherent freedom at all. While I
dont agree with my sons decision and I dont think it was kind or fair
it was his decision to make and I respect his right to make it. I will
always be his mother and he will always be my son by virtue of
familial relationship not ownership. And THAT has been one of the most
healing truths Ive ever understood as a victim of parental abuse thanks
to my son. None of us are possessions of our parents. We were all gifts.
As I came to understand this about my son, I came to understand and
embrace the same truth about myself. I have also learned the truth about
a mothers love. That truth is that the love felt for your child has
nothing to do with what your child does or does not do. I love my child
the same as I ever have. It is so contrary to what I have received or
known as a child of an abusive mother, that I cant help but celebrate
my love even if at times it causes pain. He never had to do a single
thing for me to love him it is natural and it is glorious and its how
its supposed to be and it tells me I was never the cause of the abuse
and lack of love I was shown by my mother. The very love I feel for my
son IS the gift he is even in estrangement. I am blessed to have ever
known that gift and I am grateful for the healing of that gift.
167
*beth <http://facebook/>*

January 17th, 2014 at 11:39 pm <#comment-788940>


There is a bible verse that says parents are not to exasperate there
children. There also is another that says that to hurt a child is a sin
and such a one is better off with a rope tied to a stone around their
neck. Sorry I dont have my bible with me to look these up as to where
they are but I assure you they are in there.
168
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
January 18th, 2014 at 10:47 am <#comment-789188>
This is a really great article about what Beth is talking about. If
anyone has grown up having the bible mispreached at them, this article
points out the parents responsibility and what exasperate their
children means. (thanks for sending me the link Beth)
Here is the link ~
http://www.gty.org/resources/bible-qna/BQ1411/Do-Not-Provoke-Your-Children#.Utos
RDACxOQ.facebook
169
*marquis (female)*
February 12th, 2014 at 9:21 pm <#comment-804301>
Its true that the Bible doesnt talk about parents should honor their
children, may be it is self-evident to honor them without it explaining
that part? That could be possible. I do agree how people twist Scripture
to suit their needs. My mom got the nerve to say you cant have hatred
to get into Gods kingdom, I let her have it on that telling her you
dont even believe, one minute you do and the next you dont. You have a
bunch of hatred and bitterness towards everybody and everything, its
you who wont get into the kingdom. So, dont tell me something from
Scripture that you cant explain nor believe it yourself!
She screamed like there was no tomorrow! She claims she only went to
church to get out of the house, thats a lie. Mom is from the South,
everybody went to church whether you were a believer or not and my
grandma said cant believe she lies or lying, why is her side of the
family always shocked when it comes to mom lying? People do lie!
Spare the rod, spoil the child. My boyfriend explained to me that the
verse is talking about disciplining them correctly, show guidance to the
children not beating the shit out of them all the time that isnt gonna
help them learn at all! I do agree how people quote that and spoil the
hell out of the kids with zero discipline! Yea, I heard people say
children have no rights because of the bible. So, why do people out
there say oh please, think of the children, spare the children they are
just kids! If you are gonna say think of the children, stop condemning
them every time they speak about the abuse/mistreatment they receive
from their families or strangers!
The truth about this is that if a mother loves her daughter in the true
definition of love in the first place, what went around would come back
around. But what would come back around would be LOVE, mutual respect
and a desire to BE in a relationship. Children learn relationship from
their parents. Why is it that people who say what goes around, comes
back around never see it from that perspective?
Agreed! I told that to therapist and people we learn relationships and

conflicts from parents whether it is good or bad, when its bad thats
when interventions need to come in! As always, the victims are the
obligation to make changes and be responsible is what my therapist would
say. This blog, my therapist would disagree or may be partially agree
but doesnt fit her beliefs!
Her words are so commonly used against (adult) children. They are so
condemning and laced with guilt and shame. But they are not the truth.
When words like that have been used and heard since childhood, they are
accepted much more easily as truth, but the truth is very far from her
grasp. It is so important for adult children to see this.
Agreed. My mom uses the whole what goes around comes around, I said yep,
you gotta stand before God like everybody else and she blew up! She
always says wait until you have kids, look at the hell youre gonna go
through and the shit I had to go through with my selfish ***hole kids!
I told her Im sorry, I didnt realize how miserable you are/youre
life is and since children are so bad and they take you to hell 24/7,
then you shouldve did yourself a favor and put us up for adoption!
OMG, did she go off like there was no tomorrow telling me you make it
look like I never loved or took care of my kids, I said Nobody needs
to make it look like thats what it is. You never did a thing as a
real mom should have done always expecting everybody else to take care
of us instead of you being the adult to take care of us and you should
have had a job as you have nothing to your name at all! That took care
of that lol.
It is about overcoming and healing from the damage after having been
discounted, devalued and defined by the statements and actions of
carless and for the most part unloving people. It is about having to
submit to the thoughts and value system of our elders, parents,
grandparents, grandparents, teachers or any others who placed their
importance above ours.
Agreed. Its about their beliefs from their old days to our values in
our (my generation) because they are always correct! Childrens
feelings/values still arent placed in high importance today (children
are seen but not heard, ring a bell?) and people seem to think thats
okay. The thinking is very dangerous and it scares me then we wonder why
these kids growing up to be adults having such severe emotional issues!
Children should know their place and what goes around comes around.
This comment is so typical of what we were/are told and how we were/are
treated.
Lol I had to laugh at this because I hear this a lot and thats the
attitude my parents have! God made everybody equal including parents and
children are equal to one another! Know their place, I used to ask what
place are you talking about? Never get an answer.
170
*Betty*
April 10th, 2014 at 9:27 am <#comment-836799>
Note to Nasty Nancy: Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your
children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of
the Lord.
So, the Bible does indeed have something to say about parents being
abusive to their children. Although I never claimed this verse with my
verbal abusive mother. From my age 12 66, the year of her death my

mother gnawed at my self-esteem with constant criticism for both me an


my children, particularly my middle child. However, I never zeroed in on
this verse about children, always the Honor your Father and Mother
because when I would talk to my Grannie about my mother she would say,
I dont agree with what she does either, but you know what the Bible
says! With my feelings of never doing the right thing I especially
wanted to honor God by honoring my father and mother.
Also, if I ever said anything to my mother she would have never spoken
to me again, which meant I would not see my father and that my children
would have no grandparents, since their dads parents were deceased.
Looking back at my life, I now know that I was certainly an imperfect
parent. I truly love my children and I think they know that. However,
most of their childhood I was more concerned about what other people
thought about how they behaved and the reflection on me. As the saying
goes, I wish I had known then what I know now. I have to tell myself
than the past is past and I can only go forward.
Thanks for your articles. I had no idea there were so many people with
this type of mother! I believe my mother DID love me, but she didnt
trust me to do the right thing in my life, so she felt the need to
control me. My brother and I had different mothers in the same person,
so my story is not so much like most people on this site, but enough so
that I can relate and the stories and comments enlighten my own path.
171
*Darlene Ouimet <http://www.emergingfrombroken.com/>*
April 10th, 2014 at 10:56 am <#comment-836842>
Hi Betty
Welcome to EFB ~ I can relate to what you said about your brother having
different mothers in the same person, that is actually also very common. :)
Thanks for sharing,
hugs, Darlene
172
*Ruth*
July 5th, 2014 at 5:32 pm <#comment-886167>
Hi Darlene,
I am about to dis-connect contact with my Mum as I feel it is time in my
healing journey. However, there is so much guilt about doing it as I
often remember her interstate visits and the good times not the bad. The
Good Mum not the others that come out only rarely. I have justified her
behaviour for so long and accepted her selfish ways as just being her,
but for me to move forward with my therapy i need to brake all contact.
Thank you Darlene for you blog, it has helped me in so many ways
understand my inner workings.\
Ruth
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