Infonnal conference of July 8,2004

Zachary Coughlin
Transcribed by Sarah Dean
Edited by Lynne Thingvold

Lawson:

I'm Debra Lawson. I'm here for the infonnal conference of Zachary Coughlin. And I'd
like to note for the tape proceeding that you are here accompanied by your counsel,
Jerome Fishkin. The committee members will introduce themselves and they'll get
started with your conference.

Mark DeCastro. Whitney Henderson. Morning. Thank you for joining us today. We're
here to have an infonnal conference to help us detennine if you have the requisite good
moral character to be able to practice law in California. The burden is on you to establish
that to our satisfactionand the session is being tape recorded. You are welcome to
request a copy of that after the session. Before we get started do you have any questions?

Coughlin:

No.

Okay.

There are several incidents in the records here that we're going to talk about, but before
we or before I ask any questions about the specifics, my concerns generally lie in the area
of how you handle stress. Your what I perceive as a disrespect or a disregard for the law
and authority and your candor, so kind of in the course of the questions that get asked
here that's where I'm coming from. And what I'd like to start with is how you handle
stress or how you've handled stress in the past. And I'd like to know what is different in
your life now in tenns of they way you handle stress as opposed to the various incidents
that include the incident at the movie theater and your being there without paying. Your
running away from that scene and eventually being caught by the police. The traffic
citation and you know the things with your parents and your girlfriend. What's different
in your life now than then, and how are you handling the stresses in your life?

Coughlin:

There's a big change from those times and it would be that on January 1, 2002 I became
a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I had a slip in January of the following year
and, culminating in my arrest.

That was January of what year?

Coughlin:

January 1, 2002 and then I had a slip of January of the following year culminating in the
arrest for driving while intoxicated which was a reduced to dry reckless conviction.
From that time I have been a sober member of Alcoholic's Anonymous, going to
meetings on a daily basis at least sometimes more than one a day, meeting with my
sponsor, on a weekly basis, reading a good deal of literature in that regard. Pretty much
all of the A.A. literature that's out there, from The Big Book to Twelve by Twelve to As
Bill Sees It to some more peripheral literature like Not God. and just about anything
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related to AA I've read. I've also read and become more active in spirituality - books
like "The Power of Now," have become important to me, going to church, praying a lot
more, participating in the fellowship of AA has been big because it's given me a
network of support and people with whom I can discuss situations that have given me
stress in the past that I've had problems with. It's helped me identify my character
defects and attempt to have, when they arise - to take a moment to pause, recognize that
they are there and have the willingness to do what was necessary to change them.
Q

Were you using any other drugs of choice besides alcohol? Marijuana or anything else?

Coughlin:

I was smoking marijuana in January of2003.

Since then?

Coughlin:

No.

What about any other drugs besides alcohol and marijuana?

Coughlin:

None.

Is January 2002 when you stopped denying that you had a problem or what happened in
January 2002 that made you tum to AA?

Coughlin:

Life had just become too painful, too upsetting. The incidents at the, in the prior six
months to that there had been the incidents at the law school, the arrest at the movie
theater, personal things such as breakups with my girlfriend, and Ijust really felt that
some changes, some serious changes were necessary for me to go on. And pretty much
has amounted to a nearly a complete psychic change in me from who I am. It didn't occur
you know like a flash of light. It was more of a educational variety of just day in and day
out of putting in the work and the time, and having the faith that if I kept working at it I
would be able to become a different person.

Okay. So I guess you had some incidents, and made a decision to join AA You were
going along. I'm assuming there were some ups and downs and then a year later, you
slipped. What was the reason for that and what's happened since then that you haven't
slipped since then, assuming that you haven't?

Coughlin:

The reason for the slip I'd just have to say I take full responsibility for it. I can't point to
anything that made me do it. I'm responsible for my actions and ....

What did the slip involve?

Coughlin:

Wine.

What were you - intoxicated or ...

Coughlin:

Not really, I mean but I shouldn't, it should be absolute abstinence. I've had enough
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damage and wreckage in my life in and around alcohol that I shouldn't try to drink at all.
You know - I was ...

What happened at that, did something in particular happen or did you just say well, I'm
not going to be able to handle the drink and then just..

Coughlin:

I thought that enough time had passed at that point where perhaps I could drink you know
lightly, socially wine with dinner once in a while.

Were you having dinner with the wine or were you out with friends or at a bar or ...

Coughlin:

Usually I was home having dinner. I had just started at a firm where drinking was fair1~
prevalent, so I think now if! was in that position again I would you know draw a real hne
on a social level with the people I work with.

So at the time you kind of felt pressured to fit in, to drink with them or?

Coughlin:

Not coming from them, but maybe I was ...

Internal pressure?

Coughlin:

Yeah.

And so it's been sixteen months since you've had a drink or thereabouts?

Coughlin:

uhhuh.

And about that same amount oftime since you have had marijuana?

Coughlin:

That's correct.

And other than A.A. what else do you have in your life as part of your support system
that helps you handle the stresses that are attendent to life.

Coughlin:

I see a psychologist at least once a month. I was seeing him weekly for a period of
approximately twelve weeks and starting in February of or March of2003 actually,
named Dr. Ocskay. He conducts traditional psychotherapy with me. We delve into some
issues that I think have been troubling to me, and the work we have done I think has
helped me face those and develop better patterns of behavior. Specifically some of those
issues were being an adult - child of alcoholics. I developed like, as is common with
people like that, some knowledge - active character traits that don't really fit in very well
with society, so I had to look at those, find out why, such as like you were referring to
problems with authority it's very common, a feeling of being persecuted and being
defensive, the source of things, isolating yourself, which doesn't, isn't something that's
gonna help reduce stress, rather one should reach out to friends and have a support
network ....
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Do you take any antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication or anything like that?

Coughlin:

Yes. I take antidepressants.

So, you saw Dr. Hunter in 2002 that was for eight sessions, right? And then at some point
after that you started seeing your current doctor and, you said initially weekly for about
twelve weeks and since that time, a little over a year now, once a month.

Coughlin:

That's correct.

Okay. And anything else in terms of your support system and places you go to help you
deal with your stress?

Coughlin:

Well, A.A. has created a few support systems for me. I have- three hundred times more
friends than I had before I went into that because there's so many more people I relate to
and have phone numbers and have called them up. Also, I had a condition, a chronic pain
condition in my back and neck .. .I'm sorry could I get a glass of water? My mouth is
really dry. A chronic pain condition in my back and neck that was sort of causing me a
lot of stress or stress was causing the condition and I think my alcoholism, my character
defects, specifically, having a self pittying(?) type of personality-blaming other people
for my problems and having too much pride or too much false pride or ego-was
contributing to my back problems, my physical problems because when you are walking
around carrying all this negative toxic energy it dissipates all of your vitality and that can
really cause a lot of back problems, specifically upper back problems which is what I had
in the thoracic. So, that was, that can make you very irritable so taking care ofthat back
problem was very important. It wasn't as important as taking care of the alcoholism, and
in some ways addressing both of them are going to help the other, but I've gone to about
thirty appointments for acupuncture, around twenty five chiropractic appointments, I've
done twelve. weeks of physical therapy-I do a lot of meditation work in monitoring my
breathing, my body and I've read a good deal of literature in that regard and listened to a
bunch of self help tapes so that I can notice some triggers of when I'm beginning to carry
tension in my body-and it's going to result in a build up of stress-and you know back
pain whlch is really seemed to exacerbate my character defects and make my behavior
more inappropriate.

What's the most stressful situation you've been under in say the last year and how did
you handle that?

Coughlin:

Last year probably the most stressful situation would relate to my work. I have a business
where I sell mattresses. It's an internet business and I send them through the mail. That's
been stressful in that it was kind of undercapitalized .to start and my business acumen
wasn't that great. I handled that largely through prayer and the help of people in A.A.
Also, I go to Al Anon and adult children with alcoholics meetings and I became aware
that I often try to compensate for feelings of inadequacy by trying to gain achievement or
looking outside myself for reinforcement and that can mean working too hard, not
knowing when to rest, not knowing when, if I'm hungry, angry, lonely or tired. I need to
stop and address those feelings or problems rather than trying to just bull through it and
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make more money or accomplish more things. Like I took the Bar Exam a ye.ar early in
law school, you know, which was a very poor decision in terms of the e~fect It had o~ my
body and my mind and it showed in alot of the incidents that happene~ m that fol.lowmg
semester. So that's helped with dealing with the stress related to runmng the busmess.

So you're still running that business?

Coughlin:

Mmhm.

Okay.

Coughlin:

I'm trying to find work in the legal field and I've had on part time or case by case basis
some research work. But I started the business because it did not appear that there was
sufficient work out there to stay fully employed.

And you run your business out of, from Nevada, or here ..

Coughlin:

From Nevada.

Can you explain what's happening with your conditional admission to Nevada. I guess
they haven't heard from you in a while. What exactly has been transpiring there?

Coughlin:

I got a deferment order from the Supreme Court after the Nevada Character and Fitness
Committee had issued a recommendation that I get licensed. It called for the court to
defer it's decision to October 2003; that time came and passed. So I kept waiting to hear
from them. I called them asked them if there was anything that I needed to do to update
it or further the situation, they said no the court will respond when they do. I have
spoken with the Director of Admissions in Nevada and she indicated some ofthe things
that might help further the process along such as having Dr. Ocskay write some reports. I
requested that Dr. Ocskay do that and he has done that and in fact sending one in this
week. In the near future, my attorney-I spoke with him. He'll be requesting .....

So as far as you're concerned you've satisfied all of the affirmative obligations on your
part during this probationary period or you haven't?

Coughlin:

I've, as far as I'm concerned I have. From what I understood, it was to go to the
psychologist on a monthly basis. I've done that, complied with the rules of the court, I've
done that.

Did you submit...up until now you have not submitted those records and your doctor has
not submitted records saying that you have been in counseling?

Coughlin:

I've been submitting the quarterly reports. I requested at the beginning of our sessions
that Dr. Ocskay do that. And from my reading of the order there was some confusion as
to whether the reports that were submitted by me would satisfy the order or whether Dr.
Ocskay himself would have to supply something separate and apart from what my
quarterly reports contained. I think I've been remiss in not prompting Dr. Ocskay more
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to do something. However on several occasions I've mentioned this to him and he does
just seem a bit uncomfortable with it and it seems that he doesn't really know what the
Bar wants.

So regardless of whether or not he's done anything you've sent in quarterly reports every
quarter since the order was signed in December 2002 through October and currently.

Coughlin:

Yes.

Did you sign the release allowing The State Bar to access your counseling records ...

Coughlin:

Yes.

One ofthe conditions was to abide by the Nevada Supreme Court rules and Rules of
Professional Conduct of the State Bar of Nevada and subsequent to the date ofthe order
and the date of your signing the agreement, you had an arrest. How does that fit in with
complying with the terms of the agreement and the order? Your agreement to abide by
the order.

Coughlin:

It would be a violation of the order.

Is the Bar aware of that or is the court aware of that?

Coughlin:

I wrote the Nevada and California Bars indicating the circumstances of my arrest.

And have you heard from them regarding that?

Coughlin:

I've heard from them in that they told me they got my letter but nothing more specific
than that.

When did you hear from them?

Coughlin:

Shortly after I had sent a letter in with the arrest occurring...

So it was last year?

Coughlin:

Yeah.

The circumstances surrounding the arrest. Could you talk about that.

Coughlin:

The driving arrest?

Yes.

Coughlin:I was stopped at a stop light, a police officer drove past through the intersection past me and
he noticed that I wasn't wearing my seat belt. He turned around and pulled me over. I had had about half
a glass of wine that night, my blood alcohol test indicated it was a .01, which is, originally it said .00,
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which is, indicates that practically no alcohol was present. I think I haven't the right amount of zeros in
there. The officer indicated that he thought I had smoked marijuana and he arrested me-immediatelyafter I questioned whether I needed to take a breath test for alcohol. I was taken to the station, arrested,
took the urine drug screen, tested positive for marijuana.

Had you been smoking marijuana?

Coughlin:

Not that day, but I had in the days before.

The police report would indicate that you had-it was more-I think your statements had
said that there may have been a trace from the clothes you had wore to the sweater often,
but you hadn't smoked in some time. The police report suggests that you may have been
smoking in the car. I mean the smell was that strong coming out of the car when he
approached. How do you explain your side ofthe story and the officer's side of the story?

Coughlin:

Well, I'd wear the same sweater a lot you know in my apartment because I wouldn't turn
on the heat. The times that I did smoke marijuana it was on that sweater. I wore that
sweater out that night.

Were you around people who had been smoking that night? I mean there's a difference
between having an article of clothing and it's like oh you know you've been around
people who smoke and you go, "I smell like I've been smoking."There's a difference
between your smelling like you've been around smoke and smoke wafting out of your
car, so I'm trying to understand the difference between your story and the officer's story.

Coughlin:

I don't recall being around people who smoked that day. The officer- I don't necessarily
agree with some of the things in that report, but that was his opinion.

And you definitely were not smoking in the car that day or had even had a smoke that
day or the day before?

Coughlin:

That's correct.

How does, assuming your ultimately living in Nevada and California, how does
California fit in with your plans when you have a residence in Washington and went to
school there and then you live in Nevada and why California?

Coughlin:

I'm very fond of California; specifically San Francisco, San Diego, Sacramento. I'd like
to move here and practice. Perhaps maintain a practice in both states.

Patent law would be your....

Coughlin:

~atent law would be something I'd be interested in doing. I'd like to do some public
mterest type work. In that regard, California is-specifically the ninth circuit is a state that
I would like to be a part of

I'm gonna ask a question because we've talked about the handling stress, so you don't
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need to explain why or what kinds ofthings were happening in your life that brought you
to the kind of mind set you were in when you took the cyber law course during the
summer and then subsequent, but I'm going to ask you point blank: did you write and
turn in the paper that you claimed you turned in for that class?
Coughlin:

Yes. Absolutely, I did.

And your decision to turn in only a hard copy and not abide by the requirements of the
professor, I'd like for you to talk about that a little bit and why, you know you don't look
like a kid to me, you're younger than I am, but I know enough about computers to know
that you save everything you do and something that's as important as the work you do in
law school- you want to make sure you have it and I'm assuming you know you spent
time to do an eighteen page paper, something you might need as a writing sample or
something at some other point. How is it possible that you don't have a copy ofthat to
make sure that when things didn't quite turn out the way they should have that you could
fix that situation?

Coughlin:

Well, as far as the first part of the question. I wasn't aware, I went to the class the day
the paper was due with a hard copy in hand. I had missed the last ten minutes of the class
where the professor had apparently announced that he wanted a digital copy as well for
the purpose of loading it on to his laptop to read while on a plane flight. I had been
present in class when the professor had said he had wanted to upload the papers to a
cyber law website that was going to be created. I wrote the paper in somewhat of a
hurried manner. I was going to take the Nevada Bar Exam the next week, so the paper
wasn't very good in my opinion. I didn't want it to be on a website because I didn't think
it was indicative of what I was capable of but rather that it was poor and hurried work.
When I got to class and noticed people were turning in disk copies as well as hard copies
I assumed that it was for the purpose of loading it on to the cyber law website. I wrote
atop the paper that I did not wish for my paper to be included on the cyber law website
and as such would only be turning in a hard copy. That was a poor unilateral decision to
make. I shouldn't have done that. I should have obeyed whatever the professor had said.
And it's further indicative of my level of disorganization at that time you know and the
latter stages of alcoholism-not very organized, missing the last ten minutes of class,
missing when the professor said why he wanted that copy. It's slightly arrogant,
impetulent to you know right that atop the paper.

Did you think to ask any of your fellow students or the professor directly I mean, what's
going on here, do I need to submit something that's just a hard copy, or?

Coughlin:

I asked the students sitting around me whether we needed to submit an electronic copy
and some of them said I think so and some of them said yes. I believe I meant to submit
one anyways in addition to what I wrote atop the paper, but ultimately didn't; went on to
getting ready for the Bar Exam and taking it and either forgot about it or thought what I
wrote atop the paper was sufficient. In regard to-I had-just to make the point I, a few
students did sign affidavits saying they saw me turn in the paper.

They said they saw you turn something in.

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Coughlin:

Ok Well, is that what it says.

No, I'm saying the way I would read that. My interpretation is they saw you tum
something in. How did they know it was that paper or not? Unless they sat and read it
and said, "Oh yeah I read it and that was the paper." Otherwise it's you putting
something in-you know people are piling stuff on-who knows what you turned in. If you
turned in anything at all. And I am not saying you didn't, I'm just clarifying.

Coughlin:

As to the latter part of your question, whether I had a back up copy of it. I had written it
on a laptop computer. I was living with my girlfriend that July. The computer's reading
arm on the hard drive broke off and the USB port got cracked in some way. I took it to
Best Buy to get it fixed and several other computer places. They informed me that the
computer was pretty much unfix able absent some expensive data recovery type services.
I was remiss in not making a disc back up ofthe paper. Again that's indicative of being
an alcoholic--not taking all of the steps and being present and being responsible--thinking
you can print off a paper and tum it in and you know ...

Were there more than two drafts ? Do you have the draft that you turned in that had
various comments-and then understand-wouldn't have wanted anyone to be privy to and
then there was the draft that you turned in. Were there more drafts than that? You wrote
your initial draft with place holders and then you worked on it and that next draft was the
one that you turned in since it wasn't what you call up to your quality. Those were your
only two drafts?

Coughlin:

That's correct.

Where did you save the first draft?

Coughlin:

I think it was saved on my Hotmail account. The one with the blue or purple language in
it. I had emailed it to myself, I believe.

Okay, and you didn't think to email the final draft to yourself so that you would have it.

Coughlin:

. Well the final draft I had taken that draft and the paper was due that afternoon and I
worked-so I took that draft and worked on it all day at the school library or the school
library computer place. I got it into a final form and printed it out.

So the draft that you emailed to yourself, you opened up that email at the school, worked
on it, when you got it finished or to whatever you thought was what you were going to
turn in, you just printed it and that was the end of it?

Coughlin:

Yeah.

You didn't email it back so that you would have a copy.

Coughlin:

I can't honestly say in remember saving it to a disc and taking it home or anything. I
do know that I thought, it's printed out, I'm turning it in, it's done.
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Q
Coughlin:

Alright. Thank you. We don't have any other questions if you'd like to close with a
statement you're welcome to do so but you don't have to.
I'd just like to you know impress on you that I really have changed, you know. I've gone
to probably five or six hundred A.A. meetings; I've listened to hundreds of speaker
meetings on A.A. tapes. Alcoholism is in my genetics, you know-it's something that's
really exacerbates my character defects. Even if you took out the alcohol, I' d still have
character defects, still have the alcoholism part of it. I've really worked to address that.
There has been pretty much a complete psychic change in me as a person. I no longer
have such a self seeking life, where all life is about is me collecting one achievement
after another as a means to build myself up. Rather I see that-there is alot more to be
experienced in life by giving to other people and living for, living an other directed life.
Probably the main change in me is that I've turned my will and my life over to my higher
power who I choose to call God, and in so doing, I'm no longer trying to transcend these
feelings that I have inside, whether they be negativity, self pity, blaming other peoplejust alot oftoxic emotions that you see in alcoholics and children of alcoholics- rather
than trying to transcend those feelings through absolutely controlling something like
achieving things in life or controlling things by drinking-through them. Covering them up
with alcohol. I'm realiziIlg that only God absolutely controls things. So, I accept my
limitations and in that I feel I have been able to become more whole as a person, and
avoided the trap of what happens when you try to absolutely control things in your life,
whether it's your reality with alcohol or the people, places or things around you, you
often become absolutely dependent upon them and, you know by praying and turning my
will over to God and asking for knowledge of his will the power to carry it out, I'm able
to find a middle ground where I am responsible and I control what I can in life and I'm
not overly depending on alcohol or anything else or any other person in my life and in
doing so I have been able to become a more healthy and balanced individual who- really
is a night and day difference from who I was.
Thank you.

end

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Informal conference of July 8,2004

Zachary Coughlin
Transcribed by Sarah Dean
Edited by Lynne Thingvold

Lawson:

I'm Debra Lawson. I'm here for the informal conference of Zachary Coughlin. And I'd
like to note for the tape proceeding that you are here accompanied by your counsel,
Jerome Fishkin. The committee members will introduce themselves and they'll get
started with your conference.

Mark DeCastro. Whitney Henderson. Morning. Thank you for joining us today. We're
here to have an informal conference to help us determine if you have the requisite good
moral character to be able to practice law in California. The burden is on you to establish
that to our satisfaction and the session is being tape recorded. You are welcome to
request a copy of that after the session. Before we get started do you have any questions?

Coughlin:

No.

Okay.

There are several incidents in the records here that we're going to talk about, but before
we or before I ask any questions about the specifics, my concerns generally lie in the area
of how you handle stress. Your what I perceive as a disrespect or a disregard for the law
and authority and your candor, so kind of in the course of the questions that get asked
here that's where I'm coming from. And what I'd like to start with is how you handle
stress or how you've handled stress in the past. And I'd like to know what is different in
your life now in terms of they way you handle stress as opposed to the various incidents
that include the incident at the movie theater and your being there without paying. Your
running away from that scene and eventually being caught by the poliCe. The traffic
citation and you know the things with your parents and your girlfriend. What's different
in your life now than then, and how are you handling the stresses in your life?

Coughlin:

There's a big change from those times and it would be that on January 1, 2002 I became
a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I had a slip in January of the following year
and, culminating in my arrest.

That was January of what year?

Coughlin:

January 1, 2002 and then I had a slip of January ofthe following year culminating in the
arrest for driving while intoxicated which was a reduced to dry reckless conviction.
From that time I have been a sober member of Alcoholic's Anonymous, going to
meetings on a daily basis at least sometimes more than one a day, meeting with my
sponsor, on a weekly basis, reading a good deal of literature in that regard. Pretty much
all of the AA literature that's out there, from The Big Book to Twelve by Twelve to As
Bill Sees It to some more peripheral literature like Not God, and just about anything
-1-

related to A.A. I've read. I've also read and become more active in spirituality - books
like "The Power of Now," have become important to me, going to church, praying a lot
more, participating in the fellowship of A. A. has been big because it's given me a
network of support and people with whom I can discuss situations that have given me
stress in the past that I've had problems with. It's helped me identify my character
defects and attempt to have, when they arise - to take a moment to pause, recognize that
they are there and have the willingness to do what was necessary to change them.

Were you using any other drugs of choice besides alcohol? Marijuana or anything else?

Coughlin:

I was smoking marijuana in January of2003.

Since then?

Coughlin:

No.

What about any other drugs besides alcohol and marijuana?

Coughlin:

None.

Is January 2002 when you stopped denying that you had a problem or what happened in
January 2002 that made you turn to A.A.?

Coughlin:

Life had just become too painful, too upsetting. The incidents at the, in the prior six
months to that there had been the incidents at the law school, the arrest at the movie
theater, personal things such as breakups with my girlfriend, and I just really felt that
some changes, some serious changes were necessary for me to go on. And pretty much
has amounted to a nearly a complete psychic change in me from who I am. It didn't occur
you Ialow like a flash of light. It was more of a educational variety of just day in and day
out of putting in the work and the time, and having the faith that if! kept working at it I
would be able to become a different person.

Okay. So I guess you had some incidents, and made a decision to join A.A. You were
going along. I'm assuming there were some ups and downs and then a year later, you
slipped. What was the reason for that and what's happened since then that you haven't
slipped since then, assuming that you haven't?

Coughlin:

The reason for the slip I'd just have to say I take full responsibility for it. I can't point to
anything that made me do it. I'm responsible for my actions and ....

What did the slip involve?

Coughlin:

Wine.

What were you - intoxicated or ...

Coughlin:

Not really, I mean but I shouldn't, it should be absolute abstinence. I've had enough
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damage and wreckage in my life in and around alcohol that I shouldn't try to drink at all.
You know - I was ...
Q

What happened at that, did something in particular happen or did you just say well, I'm
not going to be able to handle the drink and thenjust..

Coughlin:

I thought that enough time had passed at that point where perhaps I could drink you know
lightly, socially wine with dinner once in a while.

Were you having dinner with the wine or were you out with friends or at a bar or...

Coughlin:

Usually I was home having dinner. I had just started at a firm where drinking was fairl~
prevalent, so I think now in was in that position again I would you know draw a real hne
on a social level with the people I work with.

So at the time you kind of felt pressured to fit in, to drink with them or?

Coughlin:

Not coming from them, but maybe I was ...

Internal pressure?

Coughlin:

Yeah.

And so it's been sixteen months since you've had a drink or thereabouts?

Coughlin:

uhhuh.

And about that same amount of time since you have had marijuana?

Coughlin:

That's correct.

And other than A.A. what else do you have in your life as part of your support system
that helps you handle the stresses that are attendent to life.

Coughlin:

I see a psychologist at least once a month. I was seeing him weekly for a period of
approximately twelve weeks and starting in February of or March of 2003 actually,
named Dr. Ocskay. He conducts traditional psychotherapy with me. We delve into some
issues that I think have been troubling to me, and the work we have done I think has
helped me face those and develop better patterns of behavior. Specifically some ofthose
issues were being an adult - child of alcoholics. I developed like, as is common with
people like that, some knowledge - active character traits that don't really fit in very well
with society, so I had to look at those, find out why, such as like you were referring to
problems with authority it's very common, a feeling of being persecuted and being
defensive, the source ofthings, isolating yourself, which doesn't, isn't something that's
gonna help reduce stress, rather one should reach out to friends and have a support
network. ...
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Do you take any antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication or anything like that?

Coughlin:

Yes. I take antidepressants.

So, you saw Dr. Hunter in 2002 that was for eight sessions, right? And then at some point
after that you started seeing your current doctor and, you said initially weekly for about
twelve weeks and since that time, a little over a year now, once a month.

Coughlin:

That's correct.

Okay. And anything else in terms of your support system and places you go to help you
deal with your stress?

Coughlin:

Q
Coughlin:

Well, A.A. has created a few support systems for me. I have- three hundred times more
friends than I had before I went into that because there's so many more people I relate to
and have phone numbers and have called them up. Also, I had a condition, a chronic pain
condition in my back and neck .. .I'm sorry could I get a glass of water? My mouth is
really dry. A chronic pain condition in my back and neck that was sort of causing me a
lot of stress or stress was causing the condition and I think my alcoholism, my character
defects, specifically, having a self pittying(?) type of personality-blaming other people
for my problems and having too much pride or too much false pride or ego-was
contributing to my back problems, my physical problems because when you are walking
around carrying all this negative toxic energy it dissipates all of your vitality and that can
really cause a lot of back problems, specifically upper back problems which is what I had
in the thoracic. So, that was, that can make you very irritable so taking care of that back
problem was very important. It wasn't as important as taking care ofthe alcoholism, and
in some ways addressing both of them are going to help the other, but I've gone to about
thirty appointments for acupuncture, around twenty five chiropractic appointments, I've
done twelve weeks of physical therapy-I do a lot of meditation work in monitoring my
breathing, my body and I've read a good deal of literature in that regard and listened to a
bunch of self help tapes so that I can notice some triggers of when I'm beginning to carry
tension ill my body-and it's going to result in a build up of stress-and you know back
pain which is really seemed to exacerbate my character defects and make my behavior
more inappropriate.
What's the most stressful situation you've been under in say the last year and how did
. you handle that~
Last year probablythe most stressful situation would relate to my work. I have a business
where I sell mattresses. It's an internet business and I send them through the mail. That's
been stressful in that it was kind of undercapitalized to start and my business acumen
wasn't that great. I handled that largely through prayer and the help of people in A.A.
Also, I go to Al Anon and adult children with alcoholics meetings and I became aware
that I often try to compensate for feelings of inadequacy by trying to gain achievement or
looking outside myself for reinforcement and that can mean working too hard, not
knowing when to rest, not knowing when, ifI'm hungry, angry, lonely or tired. I need to
stop and address those feelings or problems rather than trying to just bull through it and
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make more money or accomplish more things. Like I took the Bar Exam a year early in
law school, you know, which was a very poor decision in terms of the effect it had on my
body and my mind and it showed in alot of the incidents that happened in that following
semester. So that's helped with dealing with the stress related to running the business.
Q

So you're still running that business?

Coughlin:

Mmhm.

Okay.

Coughlin:

I'm trying to find work in the legal field and I've had on part time or case by case basis
some research work. But I started the business because it did not appear that there was
sufficient work out there to stay fully employed.

And you run your business out of, from Nevada, or here ..

Coughlin:

From Nevada.

Can you explain what's happening with your conditional admission to Nevada. I guess
they haven't heard from you in a while. What exactly has been transpiring there?

Coughlin:

I got a deferment order from the Supreme Court after the Nevada Character and Fitness
Committee had issued a recommendation that I get licensed. It called for the court to
defer it's decision to October 2003; that time came and passed. So I kept waiting to hear
from them. I called them asked them if there was anything that I needed to do to update
it or further the situation, they said no the court will respond when they do. I have
spoken with the Director of Admissions in Nevada and she indicated some ofthe things
that might help further the process along such as having Dr. Ocskay write some reports. I
requested that Dr. Ocskay do that and he has done that and in fact sending one in this
week. In the near future, my attorney-I spoke with him. He' ll be requesting .....

So as far as you're concerned you've satisfied all of the affirmative obligations on your
part during this probationary period or you haven't?

Coughlin:

I've, as far as I'm concerned I have. From what I understood, it was to go to the
psychologist on a monthly basis. I've done that, complied with the rules of the court, I've
done that.

Did you submit...up until now you have not submitted those records and your doctor has
not submitted records saying that you have been in counseling?

Coughlin:

I've been submitting the quarterly reports. I requested at the beginning of our sessions
that Dr. Ocskay do that. And from my reading of the order there was some confusion as
to whether the reports that were submitted by me would satisfy the order or whether Dr.
Ocskay himself would have to supply something separate and apart from what my
quarterly reports contained. I think I've been remiss in not prompting Dr. Ocskay more
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to do something. However on several occasions I've mentioned this to him and he does
just seem a bit uncomfortable with it and it seems that he doesn't really know what the
Bar wants.

So regardless of whether or not he's done anything you've sent in quarterly reports every
quarter since the order was signed in December 2002 through October and currently.

Coughlin:

Yes.

Did you sign the release allowing The State Bar to access your counseling records ...

Coughlin:

Yes.

One ofthe conditions was to abide by the Nevada Supreme Court rules and Rules of
Professional Conduct ofthe State Bar of Nevada and subsequent to the date ofthe order
and the date of your signing the agreement, you had an arrest. How does that fit in with
complying with the tenns of the agreement and the order? Your agreement to abide by
the order.

Coughlin:

It would be a violation of the order.

Is the Bar aware ofthat or is the court aware ofthat?

Coughlin:

I wrote the Nevada and California Bars indicating the circumstances of my arrest.

And have you heard from them regarding that?

Coughlin:

I've heard from them in that they told me they got my letter hut nothing more specific
than that.

When did you hear from them?

Coughlin:

Shortly after I had sent a letter in with the arrest occurring ...

So it was last year?

Coughlin:

Yeah.

The circumstances surrounding the arrest. Could you talk about that.

Coughlin:

The driving arrest?

Yes.

Coughlin:I was stopped at a stop light, a police officer drove past through the intersection past me and
he noticed that I wasn't wearing my seat belt.. He turned around and pulled me over. I had had about half
a glass of wine that night, my blood alcohol test indicated itwas a .01, which is, originally it said .00,
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which is, indicates that practically no alcohol was present. I think I haven't the right amount of zeros in
there. The officer indicated that he thought I had smoked marijuana and he arrested me-immediatelyafter I questioned whether I needed to take a breath test for alcohol. I was taken to the station, arrested,
took the urine drug screen, tested positive for marijuana.
Q

Had you been smoking marijuana?

Coughlin:

Not that day, but I had in the days before.

The police report would indicate that you had-it was more-I think your statements had
said that there may have been a trace from the clothes you had wore to the sweater often,
but you hadn't smoked in some time. The police report suggests that you may have been
smoking in the car. I mean the smell was that strong coming out ofthe car when he
approached. How do you explain your side ofthe story and the officer's side ofthe story?

Coughlin:

Well, I'd wear the same sweater a lot you know in my apartment because I wouldn't tum
on the heat. The times that I did smoke marijuana it was on that sweater. I wore that
sweater out that night.

Were you around people who had been smoking that night? I mean there's a difference
between having an article of clothing and it's like oh you know you've been around
people who smoke and you go, "I smell like I've been smoking."There's a difference
between your smelling like you've been around smoke and smoke wafting out of your
car, so I'm trying to understand the difference between your story and the officer's story.

Coughlin:

I don't recall being around people who smoked that day. The officer- I don't necessarily
agree with some of the things in that report, but that was his opinion.

And you definitely were not smoking in the car that day or had even had a smoke that
day or the day before?

Coughlin:

That's correct.

How does, assuming your ultimately living in Nevada and California, how does
California fit in with your plans when you have a residence in Washington and went to
school there and then you live in Nevada and why California?

Coughlin:

I'm very fond of California; specifically San Francisco, San Diego, Sacramento. I'd like
to move here and practice. Perhaps maintain a practice in both states.

Patent law would be your....

Coughlin:

Patent law would be something I'd be interested in doing. I'd like to do some public
interest type work. In that regard, California is-specifically the ninth circuit is a state that
I would like to be a part of.

I'm gonna ask a question because we've talked about the handling stress, so you don't
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need to explain why or what kinds of things were happening in your life that brought you
to the kind of mind set you were in when you took the cyber law course during the
summer and then subsequent, but I'm going to ask you point blank: did you write and
tum in the paper that you claimed you turned in for that class?
Coughlin:

Yes. Absolutely, I did.

And your decision to turn in only a hard copy and not abide by the requirements of the
professor, I'd like for you to talk about that a little bit and why, you know you don't look
like a kid to me, you're younger than I am, but I know enough about computers to know
that you save everything you do and something that's as important as the work you do in
law school- you want to make sure you have it and I'm assuming you know you spent
time to do an eighteen page paper, something you might need as a writing sample or
something at some other point. How is it possible that you don't have a copy of that to
make sure that when things didn't quite tum out the way they should have that you could
fix that situation?

Coughlin:

Well, as far as the first part of the question. I wasn't aware, 1 went to the class the day
the paper was due with a hard copy in hand. 1 had missed the last ten minutes of the class
where the professor had apparently announced that he wanted a digital copy as well for
the purpose of loading it on to his laptop to read while on a plane flight. 1 had been
present in class when the professor had said he had wanted to upload the papers to a
cyber law website that was going to be created. 1 wrote the paper in somewhat of a
hurried manner. I was going to take the Nevada Bar Exam the next week, so the paper
wasn't very good in my opinion. 1 didn't want it to be on a website because 1 didn't think
it was indicative of what 1 was capable of but rather that it was poor and hurried work.
When I got to class and noticed people were turning in disk copies as well as hard copies
1 assumed that it was for the purpose of loading it on to the cyber law website. 1 wrote
atop the paper that 1 did not wish for my paper to be included on the cyber law website
and as such would only be turning in a hard copy. That was a poor unilateral decision to
make. 1 shouldn't have done that. 1 should have obeyed whatever the professor had said.
And it's further indicative of my level of disorganization at that time you know and the
latter stages of alcoholism-not very organized, missing the last ten minutes of class,
missing when the professor said why he wanted that copy. It's slightly arrogant,
impetulent to you know right that atop the paper.

Did you think to ask any of your fellow students or the professor directly I mean, what's
going on here, do 1 need to submit something that's just a hard copy, or?

Coughlin:

I asked the students sitting around me whether we needed to submit an electronic copy
and some of them said 1 think so and some of them said yes. 1 believe 1 meant to submit
one anyways in addition to what 1 wrote atop the paper, but ultimately didn't; went on to
getting ready for the Bar Exam and taking it and either forgot about it or thought what I
wrote atop the paper was sufficient. In regard to-I had-just to make the point I, a few
students did sign affidavits saying they saw me turn in the paper.

They said they saw you tum something in.

-8-

Coughlin:

Ok. Well, is that what it says.

No, I'm saying the way I would read that. My interpretation is they saw you tum
something in. How did they know it was that paper or not? Unless they sat and read it
and said, "Oh yeah I read it and that was the paper." Otherwise it's you putting
something in-you know people are piling stuff on-who knows what you turned in. If you
turned in anything at all. And I am not saying you didn't, I'm just clarifying.

Coughlin:

As to the latter part of your question, whether I had a back up copy of it. I had written it
on a laptop computer. I was living with my girlfriend that July. The computer's reading
arm on the hard drive broke off and the USB port got cracked in some way. I took it to
Best Buy to get it fixed and several other computer places. They informed me that the
computer was pretty much unfixable absent some expensive data recovery type services.
I was remiss in not making a disc back up of the paper. Again that's indicative of being
an alcoholic--not taking all ofthe steps and being present and being responsible--thinking
you can print off a paper and tum it in and you know ...

Were there more than two drafts ? Do you have the draft that you turned in that had
various comments-and then understand-wouldn't have wanted anyone to be privy to and
then there was the draft that you turned in. Were there more drafts than that? You wrote
your initial draft with place holders and then you worked on it and that next draft was the
one that you turned in since it wasn't what you call up to your quality. Those were your
only two drafts?

Coughlin:

That's correct.

Where did you save the first draft?

Coughlin:

I think it was saved on my Hotmail account. The one with the blue or purple language in
it. I had emailed it to myself, I believe.

Okay, and you didn't think to email the final draft to yourself so that you would have it.

Coughlin:

Well the final draft I had taken that draft and the paper was due that afternoon and I
worked-so I took that draft and worked on it all day at the school library or the school
library computer place. I got it into a final form and printed it out.

So the draft that you emailed to yourself, you opened up that email at the school, worked
on it, when you got it finished or to whatever you thought was what you were going to
turn in, you just printed it and that was the end of it?

Coughlin:

Yeah.

You didn't email it back so that you would have a copy.

Coughlin:

I can't honestly say in remember saving it to a disc and taking it home or anything. I
do know that I thought, it's printed out, I'm turning it in, it's done.
-9-

Alright. Thank you. We don't have any other questions if you'd like to close with a
statement you're welcome to do so but you don't have to.

Coughlin:

I'd just like to you know impress on you that I really have changed, you know. I've gone
to probably five or six hundred A.A. meetings. I've listened to hundreds of speaker
meetings on A.A. tapes. Alcoholism is in my genetics, you know-it's something that's
really exacerbates my character defects. Even if you took out the alcohol, I'd still have
character defects, still have the alcoholism part of it. I've really worked to address that.
There has been pretty much a complete psychic change in me as a person. I no longer
have such a self seeking life, where all life is about is me collecting one achievement
after another as a means to build myself up. Rather I see that-there is alot more to be
experienced in life by giving to other people and living for, living an other directed life.
Probably the main change in me is that I've turned my will and my life over to my higher
power who I choose to call God, and in so doing, I'm no longer trying to transcend these
feelings that I have inside, whether they be negativity, self pity, blaming other peoplejust alot of toxic emotions that you see in alcoholics and children of alcoholics- rather
than trying to transcend those feelings through absolutely controlling something like
achieving things in life or controlling things by drinking-through them. Covering them up
with alcohol. I'm realizing that only God absolutely controls things. So, I accept my
limitations and in that I feel I have been able to become more whole as a person, and
avoided the trap of what happens when you try to absolutely control things in your life,
whether it's your reality with alcohol or the people, places or things around you, you
often become absolutely dependent upon them and, you know by praying and turning my
will over to God and asking for knowledge of his will the power to carry it out, I'm able
to find a middle ground where I am responsible and I control what I can in life and I'm
not overly depending on alcohol or anything else or any other person in my life and in
doing so I have been able to become a more healthy and balanced individual who- really
is a night and day difference from who I was.

Thank you.

end

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