How To Prolong Lithium-Based Batteries - Battery University

29.04.
2016
HowtoProlongLithiumbasedBatteriesBatteryUniversity
BatteryUniversity
BU808:HowtoProlongLithiumbasedBatteries
DiscoverwhatcausesLiiontoageandwhatthebatteryusercandotoprolongitslife.
Batteryresearchisfocusingonlithiumchemistriessomuchthatonecouldimaginethatthebatteryfutureliessolelyinlithium.Therearegoodreasonstobeoptimistic
aslithiumionis,inmanyways,superiortootherchemistries.Applicationsaregrowingandareencroachingintomarketsthatpreviouslyweresolidlyheldbyleadacid,
suchasstandbyandloadleveling.ManysatellitesarealsopoweredbyLiion.
Lithiumionhasnotyetfullymaturedandisstillimproving.Notableadvancementshavebeenmadeinlongevityandsafetywhilethecapacityisincreasing
incrementally.Today,LiionmeetstheexpectationsofmostconsumerdevicesbutapplicationsfortheEVneedfurtherdevelopmentbeforethispowersourcewill
becometheacceptednorm.
WhatCausesLithiumiontoAge?
Thelithiumionbatteryworksonionmovementbetweenthepositiveandnegativeelectrodes.Intheorysuchamechanismshouldworkforever,butcycling,elevated
temperatureandagingdecreasetheperformanceovertime.ManufacturerstakeaconservativeapproachandspecifythelifeofLiioninmostconsumerproductsas
beingbetween300and500discharge/chargecycles.
Evaluatingbatterylifeoncountingcyclesisnotconclusivebecauseadischargemayvaryindepthandtherearenoclearlydefinedstandardsofwhatconstitutesa
cycle(seeBU501:BasicsAboutDischarging).Inlieuofcyclecount,somedevicemanufacturerssuggestbatteryreplacementonadatestamp,butthismethoddoes
nottakeusageintoaccount.Abatterymayfailwithintheallottedtimeduetoheavyuseorunfavorabletemperatureconditionshowever,mostpackslastconsiderably
longerthanwhatthestampindicates.
Theperformanceofabatteryismeasuredincapacity,aleadinghealthindicator.Internalresistanceandselfdischargealsoplayroles,butthesearelesssignificantin
predictingtheendofbatterylifewithmodernLiion.
Figure1illustratesthecapacitydropof11LipolymerbatteriesthathavebeencycledataCadexlaboratory.The1,500mAhpouchcellsformobilephoneswerefirst
chargedatacurrentof1,500mA(1C)to4.20V/cellandthenallowedtosaturateto0.05C(75mA)aspartofthefullchargesaturation.Thebatterieswerethen
dischargedat1,500mAto3.0V/cell,andthecyclewasrepeated.TheexpectedcapacitylossofLiionbatterieswasuniformoverthedelivered250cyclesandthe
batteriesperformedasexpected.
Figure1:Capacity
dropaspartof
cycling.
ElevennewLiion
weretestedona
CadexC7400battery
analyzer.Allpacks
startedatacapacity
of8894%and
decreasedto73
84%after250full
dischargecycles.
The1500mAhpouch
packsareusedin
mobilephones.
CourtesyofCadex
Althoughabatteryshoulddeliver100percentcapacityduringthefirstyearofservice,itiscommontoseelowerthanspecifiedcapacities,andshelflifemaycontribute
tothisloss.Inaddition,manufacturerstendtooverratetheirbatteries,knowingthatveryfewuserswilldospotchecksandcomplainiflow.Nothavingtomatchsingle
cellsinmobilephonesandtablets,asisrequiredinmulticellpacks,opensthefloodgatesforamuchbroaderperformanceacceptance.Cellswithlowercapacities
mayslipthroughcrackswithouttheconsumerknowing.
Similartoamechanicaldevicethatwearsoutfasterwithheavyuse,thedepthofdischarge(DoD)determinesthecyclecountofthebattery.Thesmallerthedischarge
(lowDoD),thelongerthebatterywilllast.Ifatallpossible,avoidfulldischargesandchargethebatterymoreoftenbetweenuses.PartialdischargeonLiionisfine.
Thereisnomemoryandthebatterydoesnotneedperiodicfulldischargecyclestoprolonglife.Theexceptionmaybeaperiodiccalibrationofthefuelgaugeona
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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smartbatteryorintelligentdevice.(SeeBU603:HowtoCalibrateaSmartBattery)
Table2comparesthenumberofdischarge/chargecyclesLiioncandeliveratvariousDoDlevelsbeforethebatterycapacitydropsto70percent.Allothervariables
suchaschargevoltage,temperatureandloadcurrentsaresettoaveragedefaultsettings.
Depthofdischarge
Dischargecycles
Table2:Cyclelifeasafunctionof
depthofdischarge.
100%DoD
300500
50%DoD
1,2001,500
25%DoD
2,0002,500
10%DoD
3,7504,700
Apartialdischargereducesstress
andprolongsbatterylife.Elevated
temperatureandhighcurrentsalso
affectcyclelife.
Lithiumionsuffersfromstresswhenexposedtoheat,sodoeskeepingacellatahighchargevoltage.Abatterydwellingabove30C(86F)isconsideredelevated
temperatureandformostLiionavoltageabove4.10V/cellisdeemedashighvoltage.Exposingthebatterytohightemperatureanddwellinginafullstateofcharge
foranextendedtimecanbemorestressfulthancycling.Table3demonstratescapacitylossasafunctionoftemperatureandSoC.
Temperature
40%charge
100%charge
Table3:Estimatedrecoverable
capacitywhenstoringLiionfor
0C
98%
25C
96%
40C
85%
60C
75%
94%
80%
oneyearatvarious
temperatures.
65%
Elevatedtemperaturehastens
60%
permanentcapacityloss.Notall
Liionsystemsbehavethesame.
(after3months)
MostLiionschargeto4.20V/cell,andeveryreductioninpeakchargevoltageof0.10V/cellissaidtodoublethecyclelife.Forexample,alithiumioncellchargedto
4.20V/celltypicallydelivers300500cycles.Ifchargedtoonly4.10V/cell,thelifecanbeprolongedto6001,000cycles4.0V/cellshoulddeliver1,2002,000and
3.90V/cellshouldprovide2,4004,000cycles.
Onthenegativeside,alowerpeakchargevoltagereducesthecapacitythebatterystores.Asasimpleguideline,every70mVreductioninchargevoltagelowersthe
overallcapacityby10percent.Applyingthepeakchargevoltageonasubsequentchargewillrestorethefullcapacity.
Intermsoflongevity,theoptimalchargevoltageis3.92V/cell.Batteryexpertsbelievethatthisthresholdeliminatesallvoltagerelatedstressesgoinglowermaynot
gainfurtherbenefitsbutinduceothersymptoms.(SeeBU808b:WhatcausesLiiontodie?)Table4summarizesthecapacityasafunctionofchargelevels.(Allvalues
areestimatedEnergyCellswithhighervoltagethresholdsmaydeviate.)
Chargelevel
(V/cell)
Discharge
cycles
Capacityatfull
charge
Table4:Dischargecyclesand
capacityasafunctionofcharge
voltagelimit.
Every0.10Vdropbelow
4.20V/celldoublesthecyclebut
[4.30]
[150250]
~[114%]
4.20
300500
100%
4.10
6001,000
~86%
4.00
1,2002,000
~72%
Guideline:Every70mVdropin
3.92
2,4004,000
~58%
chargevoltagelowerstheusable
capacityby10%.
holdslesscapacity.Raisingthe
voltageabove4.20V/cellwould
shortenthelife.
Mostchargersformobilephones,laptops,tabletsanddigitalcameraschargeLiionto4.20V/cell.Thisallowsmaximumcapacity,becausetheconsumerwants
nothinglessthanoptimalruntime.Industry,ontheotherhand,ismoreconcernedaboutlongevityandmaychooselowervoltagethresholds.Satellitesandelectric
vehiclesaresuchexamples.
Forsafetyreasons,manylithiumionscannotexceed4.20V/cell.(SomeNMCaretheexception.)Whileahighervoltageboostscapacity,exceedingthevoltage
shortensservicelifeandcompromisessafety.Figure5demonstratescyclecountasafunctionofchargevoltage.At4.35V,thecyclecountofaregularLiioniscutin
half.
Figure5:Effectson
cyclelifeatelevated
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chargevoltages.
Higherchargevoltages
boostcapacitybut
lowerscyclelifeand
compromisessafety.
Source:Choietal.
(2002)
Besidesselectingthebestsuitedvoltagethresholdsforagivenapplication,aregularLiionshouldnotremainatthehighvoltageceilingof4.20V/cellforanextended
time.TheLiionchargerturnsoffthechargecurrentandthebatteryvoltagerevertstoamorenaturallevel.Thisislikerelaxingthemusclesafterastrenuousexercise.
(SeeBU409:ChargingLithiumion)
WhatcantheUserDo?
Environmentalconditions,notcyclingalone,governthelongevityoflithiumionbatteries.Theworstsituationiskeepingafullychargedbatteryatelevated
temperatures.Batterypacksdonotdiesuddenly,buttheruntimegraduallyshortensasthecapacityfades.
Lowerchargevoltagesprolongbatterylifeandelectricvehiclesandsatellitestakeadvantageofthis.Similarprovisionscouldalsobemadeforconsumerdevices,but
theseareseldomofferedplannedobsolescencetakescareofthis.
AlaptopbatterycouldbeprolongedbyloweringthechargevoltagewhenconnectedtotheACgrid.Tomakethisfeatureuserfriendly,adeviceshouldfeatureaLong
Lifemodethatkeepsthebatteryat4.05V/cellandoffersacapacityofabout80percent.Onehourbeforetraveling,theuserrequeststheFullCapacitymodetobring
thechargeto4.20V/cell.
Thequestionisasked,ShouldIdisconnectmylaptopfromthepowergridwhennotinuse?Undernormalcircumstancesthisshouldnotbenecessarybecause
chargingstopswhentheLiionbatteryisfull.Atoppingchargeisonlyappliedwhenthebatteryvoltagedropstoacertainlevel.MostusersdonotremovetheAC
power,andthispracticeissafe.
Modernlaptopsruncoolerthanoldermodelsandreportedfiresarefewer.Alwayskeeptheairflowunobstructedwhenrunningelectricdeviceswithaircoolingona
bedorpillow.Acoollaptopextendsbatterylifeandsafeguardstheinternalcomponents.EnergyCells,whichmostconsumerproductshave,shouldbechargedat1C
orless.AvoidsocalledultrafastchargersthatclaimtofullychargeLiioninlessthanonehour.
Lastupdated20160402
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RapidtestMethodsthatNoLongerWork
ShippingLithiumbasedBatteriesbyAir
HowtomakeBatteriesmoreReliableandLongerLasting
WhatcausesLithiumiontodie?
SafetyofLithiumionBatteries
RecognizingBatteryCapacityastheMissingLink
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Comments
OnOctober21,2010at10:38am
JohnVanderkooywrote:
IamgratefultoCadexElectronicsforthewholewebsiteexplainingbatteries.Itisreallyhelpfultorestoreusefulunits,assessquestionableones,andtheexplanationsareatauniversity
level.Thanks.
OnOctober26,2010at5:29pm
pamelaknowlerwrote:
HowlongdoIchargeanewlaptopbatterybeforeuse?ThebatteryarrivedpartiallychargedandinformationsuggestsIchargeitfullybeforeusing.Icantseemtofindanyinformation
abouthowlongtochargeit...itsalithiumion9hour(lenovo)laptopbattery.
thanks
6/55
29.04.2016
DennisLackeywrote:
102810,IsellcellphonesandotherdevicesthatuselithiumbatteriesandIhavebeenmisinformingmycustomersinregardestochargingrequirementsoftheirbatteries.ireallyfoundthe
informationrealluseful.Thanks,Dennis
TaurugBacawrote:
Whatis1C?WhatisaC?
OnNovember6,2010at2:28am
FredBwrote:
TaurugBacawrote:Whatis1C?WhatisaC?
Toquotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_charger:
ChargerateisoftendenotedasCorCrateandsignifiesachargeordischargerateequaltothecapacityofabatteryinonehour.Fora1.6Ahbattery,C=1.6A.AchargerateofC/2=
0.8Awouldneedtwohours...tofullychargethebatteryfromanemptystate,ifsupportedbythebattery.Thisalsoassumesthatthebatteryis100%efficientatabsorbingthecharge.
OnNovember13,2010at3:38pm
Jameswrote:
Whataboutovercharging?WhataretheeffectsofleavingaLithiumionbatterychargingwhenatfullcapacity?
Jameswrote:
Also,isthereanidealrangetocharge/dischargethebatteryine.g.40%70%,ensuringapartialdischarge?
CarlosJordanwrote:
IreallyappreciateyourtechnicalinfoonLithiumionbatteries.IrecentlypurchasedawonderfulPanasonicCamcorder,whichusessuchabattery,andyouradvicenottofullydiscarge,
beforerechargingissoveryhelpful,asIthoughtaccordingtothemanual,itwasnecessarytodischargefully.
AsJamesaskedabove,whatistheidealpartialdischarge,beforechargingagain?
Thankingyoukindlyforyourhelp.
nyguswrote:
Sadly,macbooks(andotherlaptops)runmuchsloweronfixedpower(even4xslower),whenbatteryisremovedsobatterydiesveryquickly.Ithinktheyusebatteryascapacitorto
supportshortdemandsofhigherpower.
Davidwrote:
Ifitisbettertohavethebatterychargedto40%andthenstoredwhileonmainpower,whydothelaptopmanufacturersnotprogramtheBIOStohaveanoptiontochargeto40%and
stop?Iamalwaysonfixedpower,theproblemwithremovingthebatteryat40%isthatIwouldbevulnerabletopoweroutages.Withthebatterystillinsidethelaptopchargedto40%I
wouldbesavingmybattery,savingpowerandsavingmydataintheeventofamainpowerfailure.Doesanyoneknowifthereisasoftwareouttherewhichcouldchargeto40%and
stop?Ifso,pleaseletmeknow.
PatrickWoowrote:
HowfrequentshouldIapplyafulldischargetorecalibratethefuelguage?
Every30chargessoundveryfrequenttomeifyourlaptopalternatebetweenbatterypowerandfixedpowermanytimesadays.
Andywrote:
Frequentfulldischargesshouldbeavoidedwhenpossible
and
Adeliberatefulldischargeandrechargeevery30chargescorrectsthisproblem
Howaretheserecommendationscompatible?Itisreallysafeto*completely*dischargethebattery?Wouldntitdieafterasingle*full*discharge?
OnDecember2,2010at7:22am
MehperC.Palavuzlarwrote:
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29.04.2016
@David:
FollowthisquestiononSuperUser.com:
Softwaretoholdbatteryat50%chargelevel
http://superuser.com/questions/217480/softwaretoholdbatteryat50chargelevel
OnDecember7,2010at9:19pm
Davewrote:
Doesfreezingcausedammagetothebatery?Ordoesusingthebatteryinacoldorfrozenstatecausethedammage?Canabatterybefrozenallowedtothawandbefine?
Andrewwrote:
@David
Youdonotwanttoleaveyourbatteryinyourlaptopevenifwouldremainat40%becauseyourlaptopgeneratesquiteabitofheatfromusewhichisharmfultothebatteries.Thelithium
batteriesshouldbestoredat40%ANDinacoolplace.
Philwrote:
ThisisoneofthearticlesthatIwasreadingaboutcaringforyourlaptopbatteries.
CarolNemetzwrote:
Iremovedbatteryforanumberofhours.WhnIreplaceditthebatteryiconread"pluggedin,notchargingIhavehadthisproblemwithnotchargeinganumberoftimes.After4attempts,
Gatewayrepairedit.Thelasttimetheyreplacedthemotherboardandinstalledanewbattery.AllwaswelluntilIremovedhebatteryandreplacedit
Fedewrote:
MostofthetimeIusemylaptopatwork.IuseitwithoutthebatteryandIkeepitat40%.
WhatInoticedisthatifIputthebatteryagainafterafewdaysthechargehadloweredto30%forexample.
So,IfItheidealstorageisat40%butafterafewdaysthechargedropsto30%,howcanyoukeepitstoredat40%?
Danielwrote:
Thankyouforthisinfomation,peoplecomplainwiththeperformanceoftheirlaptops,justmaintainandlookafteryourbleeminglaptop!
ThankstoBatteryUniversityforthisinfomation
JaimeBlancowrote:
IhavenotseenthatthisquestionisansweredsoIwilladdmyquestiontothequeue.Isthereanidealrateofwhentochargethebattery?eg.40%...or70%??BTWWiththis
articleIhavefinallyunderstandhowtousemybatterythx!!!Iwaslivingalie..andinthepastIknewbatteryindustryhadevolvedthisyears..
OnJanuary1,2011at8:32am
Gcat122wrote:
TheVerizonsalesclerkinsistedthatInotleavemydroid2onthechargerformorethan4hoursorthebatterywouldbedamaged.Ihavetroublebelievinganewsmartphonewouldbe
dumbenoughtokillbatteries.Ishewrongoristhemanufacturertryingtosellmorebatteries?
Ikewrote:
Gcat122,properlymadeLiIonsshouldhavebuiltinprotectionthatpreventsproblemscausedbyovercharge.However,youmayhaveheardaboutmassivebatteryrecallsintherecent
yearsduetoqualityproblemscausingoverheatingorevenexplosionssohissuggestionmayhavebeenrelatedjustincasecaution.
Normally,aqualitychargerwillnoticewhenthebatteryisfullandceaseattemptstooverloadit.Butitbeenproventhatallchargersarentthatsmart,especiallygenericbrandonesthat
mayapplychargingmethodsunsuitableforLiIontype.
OnJanuary6,2011at6:22pm
Niallwrote:
wouldcargingmybatterywhilstusingitdoanydamagetoit?thisappearstobetheonlyinformationicannotfindonlithiumionbattaries
8/55
29.04.2016
Mikewrote:
Ijustpurchaseda20vprofessionalcordlessdrill/driver(Craftsmanbrand)fromSearsat60%offtheoriginalprice.Thisitemwasmarkedclearance.Ivebeencongratulatingmyselfon
agreatfinduntilIreadthisarticle.Iimmediatelycheckedthedateonthetwolithiumionbatteriesenclosedandfoundittobe102006.IthinkIknownowwhytheyhavebeenreducedto
clear.Ivechargedupthebatteriesandtheyseemfine,butIhaventusedthedrillyetsodontknowwhatperformanceandbatterylifetoexpect.Ihavetoassumethattheseitemshave
beensittinginawarehouseorstoreunchargedforoverfouryears.
WhatremaininglifeshouldIexpectfromafouryearoldbatterythathasneverbeencharged?ShouldIconsiderreturningthedrill?
Tadwrote:
@MikeifthedrillcarriesthestandardCraftsmanforeverwarranty,youcanalwaysreturnthedrillifthebatteriesprovetobeunsatisfactory.
LatelymyBlackberry9700hastakentopoweringitselfoffsuddenlywhenthebatterygetsdownaround1bar,beforeitevenreachestheyelloworredpartofthegauge.Thismaybe
duetomyrecentlyacquiredhabitofchargingiteverynight.
Illletitrundownafewtimesandseeifthatmakesadifference.
Michaelwrote:
Greatinfo!
Onecommentacoupleofyourgraphsarethewrongwayaroundtheconventionistohavetheindependentvariableonthexaxis.So,inthelastgraph,youshouldbereadingoffthe
numberofcyclesontheyaxis,againsteachcharge/dischargerateonthexaxis.(Thenumberofcyclesis*dependent*onthecharge/dischargerate).
deweyhodowrote:
Doestheabovecare,useandcharginginstructionapplyequallytoEVlithiumbatteries?
WhatspecialcaremustbegivenforLibatterieshundredsoftimeslargerandmorepowerfulthanlaptops?
Johnwrote:
Hi,greatarticle,butIhaveonequestion.WhataboutLiPolymerbatteries,doesallthisapplytothemalsooraretheresomesignificantdifferences?
Victorwrote:
Mybatterycantbackupanymore,andIonlygettohavePowerfor6hoursaday.andImaProgrammer.GettinganotherisjusttooexpensivesohowcanImakeitworkagain!Imusing
aUPSforaLAPTOP.
Cobaltwrote:
Keepthelithiumionbatterycool.Avoidahotcar.Forprolongedstorage,keepthebatteryata40%chargelevel.
Soineedchargebatteryeverytimewhenbatteryindicatorisat60%???
Ashleywrote:
Thisisanawesomearticle,itexplainseverythingindetailandisbackedupbyevidence,makingalltheinformationverycredible.
However,Istilldonotgraspthedefinitionofdischarge.Doesitmeanlettingthebatteryrunoutletitcompletelydie?
MyphonehasbeenhavingbatteryissuesIhopeIcanfixit!
HildaSmithwrote:
Thankyouforthisveryhelpfulinformation.
Roycewrote:
Istoredmylit.batteryfrommylaptoptoincreasebatterylife.AftersixmonthsIreinstalledthebatteryanditwillnotcharge.Wasstoringitsixmonthstoolong?
Alexwrote:
9/55
29.04.2016
Itdependsonthestateofchargewhenyoustoppedusingit.Ifitisalmostcompletelydischarged6monthmightbetoolong.
Alexwrote:
Youshouldtryleavingthebattery12dayspluggedin,itmightrecover
Alexwrote:
Ifitdoesntseemtohavechargedafter12days,ithastobetakenapartandthecellshavetobechargeddirectlybeforetheprotectioncircuits.Apowersupplythatcanprovide
constantcurrentisneeded,forexalabpowersupply.Thevoltageshouldbesettothevoltagewrittenonthebatteryandthemaxcurrentshouldbesetto5%oftotalcapacity.Obviously
thepolarityhastobeconnectedcorrectlyandthechargingprocessshouldbeleftaloneforawhileuntiltheconstantcurrentdisappears.Afterthatthebatteryshouldbeplacedinthe
laptopanditshouldchargenormally.
Alexwrote:
And,theresanotherthing.ifwhenyoutrytopowerthelaptopwiththebadbatterythelightsflashasifittellsyouthatthebatteryisbadthatitmightneverchargeanditalsomightnot
solvetheproblemchargingthecellsbeforetheprotectioncircuitsinside.Itisbesttotrysomethingelsebeforeyouchargethecellsseparately.aftertakingthebatteryapartdisconnect
allwiresfromthecellsthatgototheprotectioncircuits.itiseasiertodesolderthemfromwheretheyarenearthecellsratherthanfromthpcb,butthismightnotbethecaseforallthe
batteries.Afterdesolderingallwiresleaveitlikethatfor10secondsthanresolderthewiresbacktowheretheywere.youshouldconnectthebatteryintothelaptopandtrytochargeit.
Inasimilarsituationitworkedforme.Throughthismethodyoucutthepowerfromtheprotectioncircuitsanditresetssomeparametersrelatedtothebatterymonitoring
Mescodawrote:
IhavetranslatedthisusefularticleintoChineseonmyblog
Ifanyonegetinterestinit,youcanvisit
http://mescoda.com/2011/01/howtoprolonglithiumbasedbatteries/
ptahwrote:
Interestingtonotethatsomelaptopcomputershavethebatterypackprotrudingfromthemaincase.Thatmaybeintendedtoreduceexposuretoheatreleasedbyothercomponents.
DickLwrote:
Iwouldliketoknowwhatisdifferent,ifanything,aboutcharginganddischargingLithiumIronPhosphate(LiFePO4)batteriesrelativelynewchemistryintheLithiumfamilyofbatteries.
FolksatBatteryspace.comclaimmuchincreasednumberofcycles(>2000)ifmanagedconservatively.Anyobservationsorrecommendations?
DickL
OnFebruary4,2011at3:04pm
Tywrote:
ExcellentinformationonLiIonlaptopbatteries.Approximately500chargeanddischargecyclesisprettyaccurate.However,somecompaniesclaim1000ormore.Italldependsonthe
qualityandgradeofthebatterycells.Cheapbatterycellswillnotlastverylong.Whereasawellbuildbatterywithhighqualitycellsshouldhaveanormallifespan,givenitsnotputin
abusiveenvironments.
Ty
www.ebatts.com
OnFebruary7,2011at9:13am
sumanwrote:
wataboutovercharging?
dowehavproblemindopingit
jeanwrote:
whatdoesdischargemean?
stevewrote:
ImwonderingwhattheeffectoffreezingisonthelithiumionbatteriesinmyMakitacordlessdriver/drill.WorkinginthewinterinIowa,freezingtemperaturesarecommonatworksites.
10/55
29.04.2016
Willfrequentfreezingreducethetotalnumberofcharge/dischargecyclesIllgetoutofmybatteriesoverthelifeofthetool?
PremDissanayakewrote:
Itsgreatplacetostudyaboutbatteryaswellasotherrelatedaccessories.Goodluck!
PierFranciswrote:
Excellentinfoonbatteries,thankstoBatteryUniversity
Andrewwrote:
Ialsowantedtoexpressmygratitudeontheinformationgivenaboutlithiumbasedbatteries.Thankyou!
CadexElectronicsInc.wrote:
WehaveupdatedthisarticleasoftodayFebruary25,2011.
RobSmithwrote:
ItriedtofgureouthowtohandlelongevityandthebestsolutionsofarisbySonyVAIOlaptops.DuringnormaluseinofficeIputchargelimitto40%andbatternevergoesabovethat,ifI
needtotravelIsimplyincreaseitto80%or100%.
Capacityofbatteryremainedconstantformorethan2yearsnow,whatmightbeduetosuchsoftcharging,butalsoduetoqualityofSonybatteries.
DellStudioXPShasexcellentutilitywhichsimplyturnedchargingoffwheneveruserwishes.
SoIkeepchargelevelsomewherearound50%andwheneverIneedlaptopsimplyturnchargingon.
IMOitshouldbestandardonalllaptops.
OnMarch1,2011at11:13am
mikewrote:
Question:Iwastoldtoleavethecomputeronatalltimes,justshutthelid.Thiswilladdtothelifeofthebattery.Comments
genesiswrote:
people,please..donottakeeverythingyoureadoninternetasamust.whatthis....articleacctuallytellsyouis:1)itisnotrecomendedtokeepyourbatterypluggedinwhenfully
chargedforalongtimeperiods.2)itisnotneccessarytoalwaysfullydischargetheLIbattery(youcanchargeitanytimetoany%).3)donotkeep/operateyourbatteryinanowen.4)ifyou
plannottouseyourbatteryforalongtime,itisbettertokeepithalfcharged.
thatsaboutiteverythingelseisjusta....masochism.
OnMarch12,2011at12:00pm
gendersiswrote:
thanksgenesis,iwilldoasyousaid,hopefullymybatterywillsurviveanotheryear:D
Kevinwrote:
AwsomesightIhaveanEvoShiftandmybatterygetsuptoo47degreeswhileusingitandsometimesnoyslowly?Sprintsaidthatitsok?PleaseHELP!!!!!!
SLywrote:
****Tadwrote:
@MikeifthedrillcarriesthestandardCraftsmanforeverwarranty,youcanalwaysreturnthedrillifthebatteriesprovetobeunsatisfactory.****
COMPLETELYWRONG!!!
CraftmanHandToolsarelifetime.CordlessdrillsandothersimilaritemsareNOTlifetime.
Thebatteryyouboughthasa90daywarranty.Sameasthecharger.Thetoolhasayearwarranty.
11/55
29.04.2016
derpwrote:
Mostofyouareabsolutelyretarded,especiallygenesis.Thisarticleisnottellingyoutoavoidputtingyourbatteryinanoven(orowenasyousoaptlyput),buttoinsteadavoidusingthe
laptopwhileonthepowergridwiththebatteryfullycharged.
Forallyouderpsoutthere(mostofyou,judgingbyyourcomments),thismeansthatyoushouldnotkeepthebatteryinthelaptopwhileitispluggedinandyouareusingit.Laptops
generateheat(hurrdurr)andsincethebatteryisinthelaptop(again,hurrdurr),itisexposedtotheheat,ANDiskeptconstantlyatfullchargewhilepluggedin.So,no,genesis,one
doesntrequireanoventoexposeyourbatterytoheat(derp).Laptopinternalsregularlygetto6070degreesCelsius,wellabovethestatedidealtemperatureforbatteries.
AndICANTbelieveoneofyouactuallystoredalaptopbatteryforSIXMONTHStoGAINbatterylife.Whatatard.Neverusingabatterywillzapthepowerquickly.
Heresanotherthing.Ileftalaptopmostlypluggedinforayear.IthadVERYfewdischarges.Yetthebatterylastedforonlya1/2hourorso.Soyoutardsbethejudgeastowhetherornot
keepingitpluggedinwiththebatteryinstalledleadstoexcesswear.
Asforactuallyusingthebattery(whennotpluggedin),justuseit.Avoidfulldischargesanddontkeepitinahotarea.
Andforallyouidiotswantingtomagicallymakeyourdepletedbatteriesworkagain:youare,asImentioned,idiots.Everythinghasalifespan.Ifyouvehadyourbatteryforawhileand
useditoften,thenguesswhat?Itsoldandusedandyouhavetobuyanotherone!YAY!HURRDURR!
Andsomederpmentionedpeoplecomplainingaboutlaptopperformance:WTFareyoutalkingabout?Someonesaidthatlaptopsfunctionslowerwithoutthebatterywhileonpower,but
thatstheonlycomplaintIheard.Yourejustaretard.
Andsomeonehereactuallydoesntgrasptheconceptofadischarge.Areyouserious?Lookuptheword.GoodLord.Megatards.
Anyway,thankseverybodyfordecreasingmyhopeinhumanityevenmorethanpreviously.Theinternetdoesthatquiteoften.Bye,retards.
Jameswrote:
derphasapoint..andsummarizesthearticlewell
..buthecameoverasaanobnoxiousbraggart.
Sagarwrote:
GreatarticleThanksforsharing
wezzwrote:
ivejustboughtanewcordlesslithiumdrill/driverforDIYuseonlyhaveimadeacostlymistake?thankswezz
Paulwrote:
IhavebeenlookingatthisandIthinkthedataisabitmisleading.Itsnotthenumberofrechargesthatisimportant,butthetotalhoursbeforethebatterycannotgettoabove70%.
Ihavebeenageekandmodelledthis.Ifyoutakeanaveragebatterywithalifeof600hrsinstandby(theactualnumberdontmatterhere),thenthetotalhoursyougetforthe100%DoDis
actuallymorethanthe10%DoD.Yes,yougetmorerecharges,butlesstotalhoursofuse.Fromthetableinthearticle,the50%DoDgivesyouthemostnumberofhoursoutofthe
batterybeforeitcannotgetabove70%.
Itsqualitynotquantity!
p.s.IhaventreadallthecommentssoIapologiseifIamrepeatingwhathasbeensaid!
OnApril4,2011at8:20am
RichS.wrote:
Thequestionisoftenasked:ShouldIdisconnectmylaptopfromthepowergridwhennotinuse?Undernormalcircumstancesthisshouldnotbenecessarybecauseoncethelithiumion
batteryisfull,acorrectlyfunctioningchargerwilldiscontinuethechargeandwillonlyengagewhenthebatteryvoltagedropstoalowlevel.Doesthissamethingapplytothephone
batteries?
Davewrote:
Obviously,asderplefthisownlaptopmostlypluggedinforayear,heis,byhisowndefinition,aretard.Whatajerk.
Davidwrote:
Table2statesthatforafull100%dischargeandfullchargethatthebatterywouldlastroughly500cycles,whileonethathasa10%dischargeandthenchargingbackupto100%would
lastroughly4,700cycles.IhopeIunderstandthattablecorrectly,ifnotpleasehelpmeunderstanditbetter.
MyquestionisthatgiventhatIwouldfollowthe10%dischargecyclewouldthatnotcausethebatterytofailsoonersincedischarging10%andthenchargingto100%4,700timeswould
roughlyequateto470100%discharges?ImsureImaybemisunderstandingsomething,butIdontseehowthenumbersaddup.
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29.04.2016
Paulwrote:
Thekeyisntthenumberofrecharges,itisthetotalhoursyougetoutofthebattery.Soyouare,approximately,right.Lookatmycommentsabove.
Morerechargesdoesnotnecessarilymeanmorebatterylife.Justmeansmorerecharges
Paul
Davidwrote:
ThankyouPaul!Thathelpedoutgreatly.Iwillincludemyfindingsdoingsimilarcalculationshere:
Totalcapacity:100mAh
DodCyclesTotalHoursofuseFormula(capacity*Dod)*Cycles
100%50050,000(100*1.00)*500
50%1,50075,000(100*0.50)*1,500
25%2,50062,500(100*0.25)*2,500
10%4,70047,000(100*0.10)*4,700
PleaseletmeknowifIusedanythingincorrectly.
Paulwrote:
Itisclose,butitdoesdependwhattheymeanby10%DoD
Ifyoulookatthegraph(figure1),itshowsthateachtimeyoucharge,thefulllevelonthebatteryisabitlesseachtime.Thefailureiswhenitcanonlygetto70%.Soletssayyoucharge
2000times,thebattmayonlychargeto80%,say.Then10%DoDinthiscasewillbe(inyourexample)10%of80mAh.Iftheymeant10%DoDoftheorginalbattcapacityineachcharge,
thenyouarerightbutIdoubtit.Isaythatbecauseifthatiswhattheymeant,thentheycouldnothavedonea100%DoDcase(howcanyoudischarge100mAhwhenthebattisonlyat
80mAh?)
Soinyourcals,whereyouhave(100*0.10)*4,700the100needstobeadecreasingvalueforeachchargee.g.(100*0.1)+(99.9*0.1)+(99.5*0.1)orsimilar
Doesthatmakesense?
Paul
EdVimwrote:
Greatarticle,thanksforwritingthisup.
Regardingderpscomments,interestingbutitsvaluegreatlydiminishedbyimmaturity.
Davidwrote:
@Paul
Yesthatmakessense.IwouldupdatethecalculationstoaccountforthatbutIhavealreadyhadenoughfunfortheday.
Thankyoufortheresponse.
OnApril8,2011at6:01pm
PatrickBwrote:
Ikeepmylaptoppluggedinallthetimeathometodoworkon.Accordingtothisarticle,itseemsthatbydoingthis,Iamwearingoutmybatteryprematurely.Itakeittherightthingtodo
wouldbetoletitpartiallydischarge,thentakeitoutoftheunituntilIneedtouseitonbatterypower.AmIright?
thomas09789989648wrote:
hiiamalaptopserviceenginearhowtocheckbatteryokorbad.andhowtocreateonelithiyamionbattreyonchargingplstellme
GenericMwrote:
Ihopemylaptopneverneedsservicingevenmorenow.
elfwrote:
IjustboughtanewbatteryformyHuaweiAscendcellphoneIhaveletthebatterydraincompletlyoutthengaveitafullchargethenletitdieoutandgaveitacompletechargeagain.
13/55
29.04.2016
Fromthereadingabove,IfIwanttooprolongthebatterylifeIshouldletitdraindownto5060%batterylifethenputitonthecharger?OrdoIkeeponlettingitdraindownto1015%then
putitonthechargerfor4hoursoruntil100%charged?Pleaserespondbackthanks!
Paulwrote:
Basedonthedatatheyshowinthepaper,the50%DoDseemstogiveyouthelongestbattlife.
ButIamnotanexpert,Iamjustanalysingtheirdata.
PAULJ.wrote:
Funny,ifyoupaid$200toreadDavidLindensHandbookofBatteries3rdEditionitwilltellyouthatlithiumionbatterieshaveagoodshelflife.Primarylithiumdoes,butnotLiion.Thisis
straightfromLindens$200book:
TABLE35.1AdvantagesandDisadvantagesofLiionBatteries
AdvantagesDisadvantages
SealedcellsnomaintenancerequiredModerateinitialcost
LongcyclelifeDegradesathightemperature
BroadtemperaturerangeofoperationNeedforprotectivecircuitry
Longshelflife
Lowselfdischargerate
Rapidchargecapability
Highrateandhighpowerdischargecapability
Highcoulombicandenergyefficiency
Highspecificenergyandenergydensity
Nomemoryeffect
PAULJ.wrote:
Elf,itdoesnotmatterwithLiion.Justchargeitwheneveryougetachance,butjustsoyouknowLiionishappiestaround40%stateofcharge.
OnMay2,2011at11:42pm
Mikewrote:
Thequestionmostraisedislife.OurbatteriesutilizeprecisionGPSonjobsites.Themanufactureroftheunitsisveryattentivetodetailasfarasexpansionwithcharging.Theyutilizea
gorevalvetohelpwiththehearwhenthebatteriesandcomponentsexpand.However,thereplacementbatterieswereceive,whichibelievearequalitylastalmosthalfthetimeasthe
originalmanufacturersbatteries.Doyoubelievethistobeacoincidenceorqualityfactor.
Mikewrote:
Thequestionmostraisedislife.OurbatteriesutilizeprecisionGPSonjobsites.Themanufactureroftheunitsareveryattentivetodetailasfarasexpansionwithcharging.Theyutilize
agorevalvetohelpwiththeheatwhenthebatteriesandcomponentsexpand.However,thereplacementbatterieswereceive,whichibelievearequality,lastalmosthalfthetimeasthe
originalmanufacturersbatteries.Doyoubelievethistobeacoincidenceorqualityfactor.
OnMay3,2011at6:17am
PAULJ.wrote:
Thereseemstobealotofcontroversyonthesubjectoflithiumionbatteriesandwhatyoushoulddowiththemwhenyoufirstreceivethem.Theexpertswilltellyouthatthereisno
conditioningneededwithLiIon,howeverIhaveseenfirsthandexperiencewhichbegstodiffer.
IhaveseenprooftimeandtimeagainthatLiIonDOESbenefitgreatlyfromconditioningthebatterybylettingitdischargefully(untilthedeviceshutsitselfdown)andchargingit812
hours(repeatprocess)forthefirst35days.
Thatcouldsolveyourproblem,oryoumightjustbegettingoldbatteries.
Nexttimeyoureceiveanewbattery,trythismethod,Ithinkyouwillbesurprised.
OnMay4,2011at8:14am
Robwrote:
@PaulJ
ThatcouldalsobejustdowntothefactthatthissortofcyclingisusedtocalibratethebatterymaterinsomeequipmentAppleMacsspringtomindhere.Sorepeatingthisuntilyour
batteryisinpeakform(usually3or4cycles)willkeepupdatingthecalibrationvaluesandhencegiveyouthemostaccuratereading.Thisinturnwillgivethelongesttimebeforethe
softwareofthedevicethinksthebatteryisnearlyflatandshutsdowntoprotectyourinformation.
Anyway,thanksforthethread.ItsamazingtheamountofFUDthatthereisoutthere,nothelpedbythefactthatmostmanufacturersareparticularlyvaguewithregardstotheirbattery
careandhandlinginstructions.Theycouldalldowithhavinganarticlesimilartothis,butspecifictotheirparticularbattery,chargercircuitandtypicalusagepatterns,intheirmanual.
OnMay8,2011at1:29pm
danceswithbongswrote:
14/55
29.04.2016
Thanksforaninformativearticle.Wasntitniceofderptodropby,makinguseallfeelbetteraboutourselves.Alwaysgoodtonoticethatmansinhumanitytomanishardwired.Iwould
imaginederpcouldlearnabitfromsomeonewhoisretarded,likehowtotreatothers.
Again,greatarticle,andfirstfreethingIveeverheardoffromauniversity.
Canpeoplestillmajorin9volts?
AppreciateyoudroppinknowledgelikeGalileodroppedtheorange!(seeTheBeastieBoys)
Fromthelawofficesofdanceswithbongs,esq.
OnJune2,2011at3:25pm
INSAANKHANwrote:
CANSOMEONEHELPME?
IBOUGHTANEWASUSEeePC1008Pandiamfacingproblemwithmybattrycharging
mybatterychargeswellwhennetbookpowerisoffbutwheniswitchthenetbookonthebatterylightkeepsonblinkingandwindows7trayshowsatmybatteryisintermittentlycharging
anddisconnecting.(thatisthereasonwhymybatterylightisblinking..whichwouldremainstaticifitischargingnormally)
pleasehelporshouldibeneedingtogotheASUStechhelp?
thanks
OnJune8,2011at7:34am
ChargeMewrote:
Sooo,whyisitofthedozenlaptopsIveownedoverthelasttenyears,thattheystillhadlessthan5%wearafteroneyearandlessthan15%wearaftertwoyearsandkeptthemat100%
andhadmaybe1020fulldischargesayear?
Marilynwrote:
Afewyearsagoaphysicistfriendexplainedtomethatitdoesntmatterhowfaryoudischargethebatterybutonceitsonthechargeritshouldbeleftonuntilthebatteryisfullycharged.
Myboyfriend(achemist/scientist)saysthisiscompleteuntruewiththecurrentbatterytechnology.HetendstochargehisphoneinshortstintswhereItendtoneverattachtothe
chargerunlessIcanleaveitlongenoughtofullycharge.Anythoughts?(WebothhavetheSamsungGalaxySwhichisagreatphonebutahugeenergysuck.Imustrechargeoncea
daywhichIdoatthenendofthedayuntilthemorning.)
PaulJ.wrote:
Yourboyfriendiscorrect.LithiumIontechnologycanacceptatoppingchargeatanytimeanddoenotrequireafullcharge.IalsohaveaGalaxySandIchargeitwheneverIgeta
chance.Youshouldprimethebatterythefirstfewdaysthoughbydrainingitcompletelyandchargingcompletely.Thiswillalsohelpcalibrateyourphonesbatterymetertothenew
battery.
Crustywrote:
Derpiscertainlyacharacter.OK,hesdouche.There,Isaidit.Anyonehaveanyluckwithfreezingdeadbatteriesandbringingthembacktolife?SomesayitworksImskeptical.Im
tryingitnowwithanHPdv7battery(OEMHPfrom9/2009)Iguessitcanthurt.Besides,thismonster7lblaptopislighterwithoutthebattery.WorksfineonstraightAC.
AlanKanarbikwrote:
Iappreciatetheresourcefulnessoftheinformationyouhaveprovidedhere.
AnotherquestionhascometomymindregardingsavingpoweronLiionbatteries.WillitmakenodifferencetoplugthebatteryinandoutwiththelaptoprunningonACpowerorisbattery
lifesavedbyturningthecomputerofffirstfortheswitchbetweenpowersources?
Crustywrote:
Myguessisifyouaregoingtohaveyourlaptoppluggedinmostofthetime,asinalarge,say17desktopreplacementtype,itwouldbebesttojustremovethebatteryaltogether.Such
isthecasewithmyHPDV7laptopwithitsbeautiful17.3screen.Luggingaroundanearly8lblaptop(withbatteryinstalled)foranygreatdistancewillmakeamanpineforsomething
muchsmaller(andlighter!)Seriously,ifyoureleavingitathomeorofficemostofthetime,whatsthepoint?
Oh,andthefreezeyourdeadbatterythingItriedfromanothersite?Well,unlessitsaysLazarussomewhereonthelabelnexttotheP/N,thisappearstobebunk.Itwasworthatry,I
guess.Allyouneedisadeadbatteryandafreezerbag.....
NielsErikJensenwrote:
HowmanykWhdoyouhavetogetfromthepowersuppliertoget100kWhintothebattery.
Theheatingupofthebatteryshowsyouhavetotap(alot,maybe)morekWhfromthepowersupplierthantheenergythatischargedintothebattery.
15/55
29.04.2016
Samequestionfordischargingabatterywhichalsogetshotduringdecharging.
OnJuly14,2011at1:47pm
ColinMacdonaldwrote:
Iamthinkingofbuyinganelectricbike,butIgoawaytoAfricaduringtheBritishwinter,sothebatterywouldbestoredunattendedforsixmonthseachyear.Isthisgoingtobea
problem?Haveyouanyadvice?
Marilynwrote:
ThanksPaul,IvestartedtakingbothofyouradviceandchargingthephonewheneverIhaveachargeravailable.IstillfindmyselfdrainingthebatterybeforeIfindacharger,todayitwas
toomanybirdsandnotenoughpigs,butImgettingbetter.Phoneiswellprimedbasedonmypreviouscharginghabits.
OnJuly15,2011at7:10am
Gergelopazwrote:
Toomuchinformation,notspecific,hardtofindinformationthatisrelevent.
WaltBorntragerwrote:
IhavefoundjusttheoppositeofthisdatainmultipleLiionapplications.Inbothnotebookcomputersandcellphones,IvefoundthatifIneverrechargethebatteryunlessitisfully
discharged,andthenalwaysfullyrechargeit,Igetyearsoffullcapacity.Myfirstcellphonewouldrun13to14dayscontinuouslyperchargefornearly10yearsusingthisrule.(Then
communicationprotocolschangedfromanalogtodigital.
Ihadanotebookcomputerchargingmodulewithanintermittentconnectionattheoutput,chargingaminuteorso,thendisconnectingandallowingthecomputertodischargeaminuteor
so,thenchargingalittleInlessthan1day,thebatteryhadnocapacitywouldnotholdenoughchargetoholdupthecomputerfor10seconds.Thepreviousdayitwouldpoweritfor
nearly2hours.Thebatterydidnotundergoanyshockthecomputerwassittingonatable.
IvefoundthesameforNiCad(obviously)andalsoNiMH.
Mypersonalexperienceinusingrechargeablebatteriesforthelast20yearsconsistentlyagreeswiththisrule.
JeffSimonwrote:
MaybeIamtheonlyonemissingoneaspectofthenumberofcyclesversesdepthofdischarge:ifyouonlyget500cycleswith100%discharge,ascomparedto4700cycleswith10%
discharge,thosecyclesarenotequivalent.
Thatis,the100%dischargegot10timesthepowerouputascomparedtothe10%depth.Ifassumingusefulworkwasdoneineachdepth,theninfactgetting500cyclesactuallygetsa
bitmoreworkthan4700cyclesofonly10%thedepth.
Thisseemstometosaythatthedepthofdischargeismuchlessimportantthanyouwouldinitiallythinkfromjustlookingatthenumberofcyclesalone,astheamountofoutputisactually
slightlymoreunderthedeepcycle,butforpracticalpurposesisclosetoequivalent.
Thatis,unlessIammissingsomethingthateverybodyelseisseeing.
JimHwrote:
IhaveanewnetbookandwanttopreservetheLiIonbatteryaslongaspossible.Ihavenooccasiontoneedtousethenetbookonthebattery,butImaysomeday.Ivehadthenetbook
aboutamonthandhavenotinstalledthebattery.Isthisagoodstrategy?ShouldIchargethebatteryabouthalfwayandputitinthefridgesealedtopreventmoistureincursion
PaulJ.wrote:
Mysuggestiontoyouwouldbetoreadthearticleinsteadofjustthecomments.Itseemslikeonlyafewpeopleactuallytookthetimetoreadit,andeveryoneelsewantsanswerswithout
doingthereading.IhavereadthewholebookBatteriesinaPortableWorldandIwouldrecommendittoanyonewhowouldliketohaveabetterunderstandingofbatteriesandthe
characteristicsofeachchemistry.
PaulJ.wrote:
Jeff,Ithinkitisjuststatedtobeequivalentforpracticalpurposesbecauseitiscloseenough.
JeffSimonwrote:
Paul,yeswhatIamsayingisthattheyarepracticallyequivalent.Butthearticleseemstoimplythatverysmallcyclesisfarbetter.
16/55
29.04.2016
WaltBorntragerwrote:
Paul,Ireadthearticleandamsayingthatmy20+yearsofexperiencewithrechargeablebatteriesdisagreeswithoneprimaryimplication:Thearticleimpliesthatmanypartialcycleswill
allowthebatterytokeepfullcapacitylonger.ThememoryeffectthatplaguedNiCadchemistryandsupposedlyisnotpresentinLiIon,istheeffectthat,ifthebatteryisonlypartially
discharged,thenrecharged,itwillsoononlyhavethecapacitytowhichitisused,i.e.,ifyouonlydischargeit10%andthenrechargeiteachtime,afteranumberofcycles,thetotalmAH
availablewillonlybeabout10%ofitsoriginalcapacity.MyexperiencehasfoundthistrueofNiCad,NiMH,andLiIon,althoughLiIonisthemostforgiving.AsIstatedbefore,afaulty
chargerconnectioncausedverysmallcyclesonmylastLiIonanditdestroyedthecapacityindays.Iwouldcertainlynotrecommenddischarginganyofthesechemistriessmall
amountsbetweenrecharges.Iveseenthishabitdestroycapacityveryprematurelynumeroustimes.
Mostoftodaysnotebookcomputershaveahysteresisbuiltintothechargecyclesuchthat,ifyoufullychargeit,nochargingwilloccuruntilyouhaveintentionallydischargedittosome
extent.Thisallowsyoutokeepitpluggedinforperiodsoftimewithoutexcessiveshortchargecycles.Somealsohavetheoptiontoturnthechargeroffuntilitisreallynecessaryata
lowremainingcharge.Thisisacluethatnotebookcomputermanufacturersagreewithmeonthisaspect.
PaulJ.wrote:
Walt,IagreewithyouthatLiIondoesntalwaysbehaveexactlyasindicatedinthearticle.Mycommentaboutreadingthearticlewasnotpointedatyouorotherswhoarehereto
discussfindingsandexperiences.Itwasforthepeoplewhojustcomehereforfreeanswerswithoutputtingforthanyefforttoactuallylearnwhatthearticleisteaching.
Thatsaid,bearinmindwhenyoureadthisarticlethatitwaspublishedin2001.LithiumIontechnologyhasadvancedandisbetterunderstoodnowthanitwasin2001.
IsidorBuchmannhasreleasedathirdeditionjustacouplemonthsagothatIcantwaittogetmyhandson.
Sandeepwrote:
Isitreallyagoodpracticetokeepthechargeronformylaptopevenaftermybatteryhasreached100%(fullycharged)?Ifnotdoesthishaveanimplicationonthelifeofthebatteryand
byhowmuch?Isenergywastedintheprocessbecuasethechargertriestokeeppumpingintoanalreadyfullbatteryandifsowhatisthelosslike?
WalterBorntragerwrote:
SorryPauldidntnoticethatthiswasanoldstudy.Goodpointreadandthinkthroughthearticlebeforeaskingaquestionthatwasalreadyanswered.
ItendtospoutoffabitoverthissubjectbecauseofallthehypethatLiIonhasbeatthememoryeffectsyndrome.Ihaventfoundasolidchemistryyetthathas
(Bysolid,Imeanthisprimarilyexcludesleadacid,whichthrivesonacontinuousfullcharge,withinlimits,andcanbedestroyedbyafulldischarge.)
Thanksforthecomments
Walt
OnAugust1,2011at3:16am
NeilPwrote:
JimH,
Ifyouhavestillnotpluggedyourbatteryintothelaptop,thenDONT.
Ihaveheard,butcantconfirm,thatthebatteries,factoryfresh,arechemicallystabilised,somehow.Thefirstchargecycleortwodisapatesthisstabilisation,hencetheneedtocyclethe
batteryafewtimestogetfullcapacity
Colin,RefyourEbikebattery.Thattotallydependsonthechemistryofthepack,ItcouldbeSealedLeadAcid,oraLiFePO4or??CheckouttheEndlessSphereEbikeforumforan
answer,onceyouknowbatterychemistry
Retxirbwrote:
Firstletmethankyouforthisgreatarticleandthiswebsite,veryinformative.IrecentlyboughtnewnetbookandIvebeenchargingthebatteryforaround40%to80%.Ichargeitup40%
whenIwontbeusingthebatteryforalongperiodoftime.IpulloutthebatterywheneverIhaveaccesstopoweroutlet.
Chargingthebatterywhilethecomputerisrunningmaycausethebatteryseriousstressbecauseofheat.ButIoccasionallychargemynetbookaround7pmwhenthetemperatureis
coolsoIcanwatchthenetbookwhenitsreached80%.
Iknowthateverythingevencomputerbatteryhasanend.IfIreachthatpoint,Iwoulddissectthebattery,ebaysomeLiIonandthensolderittoplace.Thatwouldsavemealotofbucks.
NeilPwrote:
JimH,
Ifyouhavestillnotpluggedyourbatteryintothelaptop,thenDONT.
Ihaveheard,butcantconfirm,thatthebatteries,factoryfresh,arechemicallystabilised,somehow.Thefirstchargecycleortwodisapatesthisstabilisation,hencetheneedtocyclethe
batteryafewtimestogetfullcapacity
Colin,RefyourEbikebattery.Thattotallydependsonthechemistryofthepack,ItcouldbeSealedLeadAcid,oraLiFePO4or??CheckouttheEndlessSphereEbikeforumforan
answer,onceyouknowbatterychemistry
Fabricewrote:
Paul,note:
17/55
29.04.2016
Isidorwrote:
WehaveupdatedthisarticleasoftodayFebruary25,2011.
Still,Iwishhewouldaddressthepointraisedaboutbatteryutility(i.e.,totalpowerdelivered)vs.numberofchargecycles.Itisagoodexampleofhowdatapresentationcandefineand
limitourabilitytounderstandwhatisreallyimportant.
JohnC.Crowtherwrote:
Re.Charging/DischargingofLithiumBatteriesandusefullifeofthebattery
TheArticleandmanyoftheComments,aswellasstressingpreventionofoverheating,(inahotcomputerorahotcar)seemtoindicatethatlengthofbatterylifeisamatterofhowmuch
youdischargethebattery,andhowoftenyouchargeit.Soitcantake500cyclesoftotaldischarge(100%dischargedto0%)or4700cyclesof10%discharge(100%chargeddischragd
to90%).[seeexchangebetweenDavid&PaulonApril07,2011]TheyagreethattheamountofworkdonebytheLibatteryisprettymuchthesamewhateverapproachyoutake.
ManyofthecommentsfocusonavoidingoverchargingandsomerecommendkeepingtheLibatteryaround40%50%discharged,andtoppingitupfrequently.Soundslikefyou
dontuseit,youloseit
Sofarsogood.ButIhaveaconfusionwhichis(unlessIoverlookedsomethingwanttoavoidaflamefromderp).IamconcernedaboutunderchargingaLiBattery.Thisconcern
relatestoaLenovoThinkpadsystem,butIimagineitcouldapplytomanyotherLaptops.
IhaveaThinkPadW520,andsincethemainsadapterisabrick17cmx8cmx3.5cmweighing750g(6.7"x3.2x1.3weighing1.64lbs)Ifiguredfromsuggestionsonthinkpads.com
SupportCommunity(http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=628326)thatIcanequallyuseasmallermainsAdapteralso
availablefromLenovo.
TheBrickhasanoutputof170W,20Vchargingat8.5A
Thesmallerversionshaveanoutput90Wandchargeat4.5A
soaccordinglyIboughtaLenovo41R4494UltraslimAdapterwhichis11.5cmx7cmx1.7cmandweighs377g(4.5x2.75x0.67weighingunder12ounces).Ifeltverypleased.
ButnowmyThinkPadisnaggingmeeachtimeIswitchonorclosedown:
ncorrectACadapterisattached.
ThisACadaptermaynotprovideenoughpowertoyourThinkpad.PleasereconnecttheproperACadapter.
i.etheymeanIamnderchargingthebattery,right?
(Thatstrue,ifIleavetheUltraSlimattachedwhileIwork,thebatteryrunsdown.
Question:Butisthatbad?Maybeitrunsdownmoreslowly,thaniftheUktraSlimAdapteris*not*attached?Canitdamagethecontrolcircuitsinthebatteryorthemainsadapter?
MycompromiseworkroutineusestheLibatteryformyworkingday,andIchargeitovernight.
1.Ihibernatethecomputerwithremainingchargeinthebatteryca.30%leavingitpluggedintotheUltraSlimchargerovernight.
2.InthemorningIunplugthemainsadapter,beforewakingupthecomputer(therebyavoidingthenag).
Itsbackto98%100%showing8or9hoursworkavailableinthebattery(the9cell)
Duringtheday,Iusethecomputeronbattery,insporadicintervalsofhalfto1hours.BetweeneachworkintervalIclosethelidtohibernate.Irarelyfinishthedaywithlessthan30%
chargeinthebattery.
Sonowtomymainquestions:
A.isthisroutineharmfulforthelifeofaLiBattery?
B.ifnot,whydoesLenovonagmeforusingthe4.5Amainsadapter?
(itchargesOKwhenIamnotusingthecomputer).
ManythanksforanyinsightorlighttheTeamcanshedonthissubject.
Regards=John
BIKIEwrote:
HelloIwonderifIputmycomputerwithoutthebatterychargeandpeudeafterIputmybatteryduringchargingisthereariskthatthebatteryorthecomputergate
OnSeptember23,2011at12:50am
Deewrote:
Theownersofthissitedeservepraise.greatworkandsolidinformation.
Ashfaqwrote:
hi
Iheardthebatterylifereducesifwekeepthechargerpluggedin(charing)afterthebatteryis100%isittrue?
banmeetsinghwrote:
Afterdischargethebatteryshouldbefullychargedbackbecause
1.Chargingbackto70%restorethelife
2.Prolongeddischargestateoftheplatecausessulphation
3.Partialchargingafterdeepdischargeisalsocausessulphation
18/55
29.04.2016
4.,BothB&C
Peppewrote:
Hi,
Ifindthisarticleveryinteresting.WiththeaimoftryingtoputitinpracticebymovingtoamoresoundmaintenanceofmyLiionbatteries,Iwasquicklylistingtheminmymind:IveLiIon
batteriesonmynotebooks(AsusandMacBookAir),mytwophotocamera,myvideocamera,mymobilephone.
So,twomaininsightIwanttoapply:1)neverleavealiionbatteryinactivefortoolongtime(i.e.months),butkeepelectronsmovefromtimetotime2)storethebatteryatthebest
possibleconditions,i.e.:lowtemperature,lowhumidity,about40%ofcharge.
Ishouldhavenoproblemswithmobilephonesandnotebooks,asIusethemeverydaysokeepingthemataboutthechargelevelIwantissomethingIcansomewaycontrol(plug/unplug
themappropriately).TheonlyproblemistheMacwhichheatsoftenandtheresnowaytoremovethebatteryifIwanttogiveitsomerelief.
Therealproblemsarewiththephoto/videocamera:Idontusethemeveryday,sometimesIdontusethemforafewmonths.HowcanIsimultaneouslyapplybothinsights?
SupposeIchargethemtosome40%(difficulttocontrol,atleastwiththephotocameras,whiletheSonyVideocamhasaprogressbar),andthenIremovefromthedevicesandleave
themapart.Ithengotorechargethemafter1month(insight1).Howmuchchargecantheyloosein1month?Iimaginefewenoughsothattobringthembackto40%Ishouldleave
thempluggedin10minutes?
Isthissomethingsoundandworkable?
Becauseifnot,thenIshouldchargethemmoreandthenartificiallyusethedevicesintenselytomakethemdischargethebatteryagainatabout40%.ThatsbecauseIdontknowif
theresanyuniversalcharger/dischargerthatIcanusetocontrolhowmuchcharge/dischargeIwanttoapplytoaliionbatterybeforeIstorethem.
AllthisissomucheasierwiththeNiMHHybridbatteries(usedinstrobesforexample)forwhichIveboughtaMahaPowerexMHC9400charger/dischargerandeveryfewweeksIrun
aRefresh&Analyzecyclespecificallydesignedforoptimalstorageofthebatteries(then,everyfewmonthsIrunanotherstrongerprogramtofullyregeneratethem).
Peppe
Mr.Milchowrote:
ThankstoBatteryUniversityforthisinformation.
Cedricwrote:
ThetableshowsnumbersofcyclesfordifferentDoD.
Butdoes50%DoDmeancyclingthechargebetween50%chargeand100%?
Givenwhatthearticlesays,woulditnotbebesttocyclechargebetween10%60%forexample?(avoidfullchargetonothavehighvoltageinthebattery)?
AndwhatIwouldliketoknowiswhatisbest(ex.duringworkinghours,atmydesk)??:
letthelaptop/phoneplugged,sowithbatterynear100%,butalmostnotused(exceptforpeakpoweruse,suchasinphonesforsomeradiocommunications).
Oronlyplugsometimes,maintainingchargebeetween20%80%.Inthiscasewehavelowervoltage,butthebatteryismuchmoreinuse,enduringmore(partial)cycles.
Notethatforphone,theywontworkwithbatterypulledoff.Iwishitcouldbesetuptoonlychargetoapartialcharge(ex75%).
Tomwrote:
VeryUseful
Andrewwrote:
HiIhavereadthisforumovervarioustimesandhaveseenthequestioncanLithiumIonbatteriesberestored/saved?askedanumberoftimes.Oftenthediscussionleadsintlo
technicaldescriptionsbutnoclearanswer
Oncetheynolongerholdacharge,isthereanythingIcandotopracticallyrevivealithiumionbatteryorisisstraighttothegarbagedump?
itsjustthatihaveaverylargepileof,whatwere,highqualitybatterypacksandwouldliketoknowificaneverderiveanpracticaluseforthem?...beyondbeingpaperweights?
ijustfigurethatthese14.4v,95Whunitecostabundleandcertainlytheirmustbeawaytorestorethemno?
pleaseappreciatethatwhilemechanicallyadvanced,inthebatteryworldImverymuchthelayperson
SergeyVerlinskiwrote:
Couldyoupleaseexplain:whichmechanicalparametersdescribesagingofbatteries?Andsecondquestion:howYoungsmodulusofLibatterieschangesdependoftemperature.Thanks
inadvance.
MichaelNoltingwrote:
IjustwanttoknowifkeepingmylaptopwithlibatteriesconnectedtotheACchargerisdestroyingmybatteries.
19/55
29.04.2016
IreplacedmybatterybecauseitwouldnotholdachargeinJuneandnowitbehavesveryerratically.
mekong_namwrote:
well.Theinformationthatyougiveisdifferentfromusersmanualofcellphonecompany.Theysaidthatusershouldfulldischarge,emptytheirbatterybeforerechargingtokeepbattery
lastinglonger.Allsellerssaidthatusersshouldchargetheirbattery8hoursforfirst3timestomaximizethecapacityofbattery.
ClementLeewrote:
MyPortableDVDisusingLiPolymerrechargeablebattery.Itisabout1.5yearsold.Nowthebatteryswelledandthechargecapacitivedropseriously.
Whythebatteryswell?
Isitdangeroustokeeponchargeanddischargeit?
resgwrote:
MymobileacceptschargingbothusingACadapterorUSBport.UsingtheUSBwillapplyaslowerchargeasstatedintheownersmanual.Questionis:istheUSBchargelessstressful
thantheonewithACadapter?Isitbetterforthebatteryatall?
Martinwrote:
Sodoesanybodyknowifthisarticlehasbeenupdatedfrom2001toincludemorerecentinfo?
Asfarasmylogicgoesthenatleastin2011,itsoktokeepyourlaptoppluggedinwiththebatteryattached,because
1.ifyouchargeto100%andkeeptoAConthechargerisintelligentenoughnottoreallystartchargingthebatteryagainuntilitnaturallydropstoabout95%
2.whileonACthelaptopdoesnotdrawpowerfromthebattery(sourceDellhomepage)
Youhavetokeepinmindthoughtodischargeit/chargeitonceinawhile(fromthispagehereitseemsthebestistoletitgotoabout25%?).
OnlyifyourlaptopgetsveryhotwhileusingitonAC,isremovingthebatteryagoodideaasahotlaptopwillalsonaturallyheatupthebattery(removethebatteryandtouchit,shouldgive
youanidea).This,asIunderstand,willmakethebatterylooseitscapacitymorequickly.
DavidJoneswrote:
Ivejustfinishedreadingthearticleandallcomments.NotuntilnearlythelastcommentdidIlearnthatthearticlewaswrittenin2001.Iscrolledbackupandfoundnodatebeforeorafter
thearticle.Myclosestcluewaswhenthecommentsbeganin2010.Myfaultfornothoroughresearchofthesource.IsimplyGoogledhowtocareforLithiumIonbatteries.Imustsay
thatIappreciatetheintelligentcomments,especiallyPaulandWalter.Manythanksforthisinformation.MyToshibalaptopandcellphonebatterieswillservemelongerandstronger.
meganwrote:
ileftmyphoneinoutsideandifountiteverythingworksfinebutnotlessthan5secondsafteriturnitonitsaysbatteryistohotpoweringoff???doesanybodyknowwhtthtmeans???
TedSeifertwrote:
HowdoIstoremylithiumbattersforthewinter,Iusetheminmyyardtools.Iwillnotbeusingthemforabout4to5month.
cristovianwrote:
Canabattery,namelyLiionbechargedanddischargedatthesametime,withoutadisruptionintheoutput.Thebatterypackhastwoterminalsoneinputandtheotheroneanoutput.
bargainsbob@gmail.comwrote:
IjustboughtaCraftsman20vLiIonProfessionaldrill(displaymodel).WhenIgotithomeItriedtochargeitandthechargerindicatedthatitwasdefectiveandrefusedtogiveitacharge.
SoIstuckitinthefreezerforashortwhileandthenitchargedok.
Doesanyoneknowwhythishappened?
DoesanyoneknowifthepackisgoodorshouldIreturnthedrilltoSears.
Thanksforanyreplies
ZubairShahidwrote:
Hi!Ihaveadellinspiron1520laptop.Ihaveaquestion.Ifiusemaximumtimelaptoponacstatealthoughmybatteryisfullsoisitharmfulformylaptopormybatteryplzguideme
20/55
29.04.2016
HHAHwrote:
veryhelpful,thanksverymuch
brianwrote:
LaptopsgethotwhenturnedonespeciallybiggeroneswhentheCPUandvideocardsareprocessingalotofdata.Itcanbedetrimentalwhenturnedon24/7asthebatteryalso
maintainsa100%charge.Placinglaptopsonblanketsorbedscanblocktheventsandoverheatitfurther.Fabricisalsoagoodinsulator.Iflaptopbatteriesareprotectedfromexcessive
heatwhilerunning,wouldnttheservicelifelastmuchlonger.
TheadvantageofLiionisthatitislight.IpreferNiMHbecauseapparently,theydontageasfastwhennotinuseandtheydonthavethatexplosionrisk.
mAhcanbeabitmisleadingbecauseitdoesnotequalWh.WhisequaltoVxAh.Soitseemsifyouconnectcellsinseries,youfindtheWhofeachcellbeforeaddingit.
RayWellswrote:
IhaveaSamsungGalaxy,andleftitchargingovernightusingtheUSBportofmyHPMini,whichwaspluggedinthewholetime.Inthemorning,thephonewasgood,butthelaptopbattery
was0%andhasnotworkedsince.MytheoryistheUSBportstayedpoweredwhilethelaptopcutitsownchargeroffforsomereason.Beforethis,thelaptopbatterywasdoingfine.
Katywrote:
WellfromfirsthandknowledgethequickestwaytokillyourLithiumIonbatteryistoletitgocompletelydead.Anotherthingistoleaveitinthecarovernightinthecold.Justtryingtohelp
soyouguysdontmakethesamemistake.
Guillaumewrote:
@Sandeep
Ifyouintendtouseyourlaptopchargedinforanextendedperiodoftime,removethebatteryfromitat40%capacity.
Youshouldnotkeepthebatteryonthelaptop.Thelaptopwillkeepchargingthebatteryassoonasitlossesalittlecapacityandwilleventuallyreducethebatterylifeexpectancy.
Guillaumewrote:
SoifIunderstandtheTable2correctly,theoptimalcapacitytochargeaLiionbatteryis50%?
100%*500cycles=500timesfullcapacity
DidImisssomething?
tazwrote:
Dontlistentothesepeoplethatscrazytheresayingifustoreurbatteryinurfridgeat0cyourbatterywillonlylose2%peryear?Soicanstoremylithuiumbatteyfor10yearsandlose
only20%capacity?LOL
MikeMcMahonwrote:
MycellphonebatteryisLiIon3.7vdc.MyUSBoutputis4.98vdc.Isthe4.98vgoingtosignificantlydegradethelifeofmybattery?
RayWellswrote:
Theunderlyingissueishowhumansshouldbehaveinordertohandletechnology.Well,guesswhat,thatsbackwards.Technologyshouldbehaveinawaythathumanscandealwith.
Assumetheyareallretardsifyoulike,butexpectthemto:1/Leaverechargeabledevicespluggedinmostofthetime,2/Leavethebatteryinplacewheninuse,regardlessofbeing
pluggedin.3/Storethingsinahotvehiclewhenconvenient.4/Needaclearindicationwhenabatteryneedsreplacing.Likeeverythingelse,batterytechnologywillevolvebynatural
selection.Utilityandeconomics.
RayWellswrote:
Ilikedtheoriginalarticle,givesagoodanalysisofthechallengesfacingtheindustry.Therewillprobablyalwaysbe101thingstoavoiddoingwithanybatterytechnology.
21/55
29.04.2016
DuRoiwrote:
IhaveaNokiaN70Meforseveralyears(maybe4or5)withaLiIon(BL5C)battery,whatiusetodoistocharge100%,andusephoneuntilthebatteryisfulldischarge.MyBL5Cis
inperfectconditioniassureyou.ThisismyownexperiencewithaLiIonphonebattery,andithinkthiscontradictalittlebeatsomeofthistheories.Ihopethishelpinawayoranother.
HappyNewYearforall!!!
RayPipkinwrote:
@JeffSimon,whowrote:
MaybeIamtheonlyonemissingoneaspectofthenumberofcyclesversesdepthofdischarge:ifyouonlyget500cycleswith100%discharge,ascomparedto4700cycleswith10%
discharge,thosecyclesarenotequivalent.
Thatis,the100%dischargegot10timesthepowerouputascomparedtothe10%depth.Ifassumingusefulworkwasdoneineachdepth,theninfactgetting500cyclesactuallygetsa
bitmoreworkthan4700cyclesofonly10%thedepth.
Youarecorrectinyourobservation,butyoushouldhavetakenitonestepfarther.UsingthedataofTable2whichgivesthenumberofcyclesto70%capacityasafunctionofdepthof
discharge,onecanderivetherelativeamountoftotalenergyextracted(adimensionlessquantity)fromaLiioncellasafunctionofDoD:
100%DoDyields500unitsofenergyfromaLiioncelloveritsusefullife
50%DoDprovides750units
25%DoDprovides625unitsand
10%DoDprovides470units.
ThedatainTable2indicatethatrechargingwhenthecapacityreaches50%isoptimalovertheotherthreeoptions.
Inpulpdedwrote:
Youcanthinkofyourcomputersregistrylikethebrainofyourcomputer.Assuch,itstoresfactsnotonlyoneveryprogramthatyourcomputerhassetupedatanygiventime,italso
tendstokeepinformationfromprogramsthatyouFormerlytakeawayd.ThiscanbeaimportantproblemforPCownersandiswhyitsimperativeforcomputeruserstouseafree
registrycleaner.
Whenyousetupsoftwareonyourcomputer,someimportantrecordsarestoredinsideyourcomputersregistry.However,whenyoueliminateorunsetupsoftware,sometimesthose
dataremaininsideyourregistry.Maybethesoftwarewaspoorlywrittenoryourcomputerhadahardtimeunsetupingthesoftwareproperly.Ineithercase,theendresultisthatyou
haveinformationinyourregistrythatarenolongerneeded.
<a>advancedsystemcaretorrent</a>
cleansyourcomputersregistry.RegistrycleanersgetridofoutdatedanderrantregistryentriesthatcancausePCslowdown,errormessagesandevensoftwarecrashes.serious
registryproblemscanevenresultinyourcomputerbecomingunbootable.So,byemployingaregistrycleaningtool,youcanworktoeliminatethesePCslowdownsandavoidfuture
problemsduetoabloatedregistry.
Deyanwrote:
IhaveownedanAcerAspirelaptopwithaLiionbatteryfor4andahalfyearsnow.IuseitpredominantlyonACpowerandNEVERtakethebatteryout.Mybatterynowstillhas86.9%of
itsinitialcapacity.Anycomments?derp,whatdoyouthink?
Ericwrote:
Ifyoulookattable2,itonlysaysthenumberofcycles,whichisirrelevanthere.Ifwehaveachargerreadyandneedtoknowwhentochargetoprolonglife,youcantreaditfromthe
tabledirectly.IfIfullyusethebatteryuntilitsempty(100%DoD)youhavetocomparethatto10cyclesdischargingto10%DoD,becausethatsfulfillingthesameusageanyother
comparisonisuseless.Solookingatthesefourvalues,the25%DoDseemstobethebest,butmorevalueswouldbehelpful.
jessiefisterwrote:
dontchargeyourbatteryuntiilitisusedup.
moreideaspleaseclick:
http://www.batterymag.co.uk
LukePatrickwrote:
Iworkresearchanddevelopmentandhavetestedlithiumioncellsforyears.HerearesomepointsIhavelearnedonlithiumion:
0.Ifabatteryisinadevice,thedevicealwayshassomesortofbatterymanagementsystem.Fulldischarge(to0volts)shouldnotbepossibleanddoescauseirreparabledamage.full
dischargetoabout2.7V(0%stateofcharge)isnormal.
1.Storagewillnotrejuvenateorrecovercapacity.
2.Ifyouneedtostorelongterm,storeitat50%charge.Thisreducesselfdischargeand/oractivematerialdegradation.
22/55
29.04.2016
3.Freezingcandamageacellbycausingdendrites(crystalization)intheelectrolytecomponentsandpiercingseperatorordamagingmaterialbonds.
4.Thelowertheoperatingtemperaturetheslowertheionexchange.
Thehigherthetemperaturethehigherthematerialdegradation.Roomtempisbest.
6.Onceinawhile,dischargethebatteryuntilthedevicecutsitoff,fullychargeitandleaveitonthechargerforashorttime.Thismovesasmanyionsaspossiblefromoneelectrodeto
theotherkeepingthemfreetomoveinsteadofstubbornlystuck.
7.RememberdifferentcompaniesmakedifferentformulationsofLithiumionandLipolymerthatbehavedifferentlylikeHighpower,Highcapacity,longlife...thereisalwaysatradeoff.
shanewrote:
chargemybattery
Karenwrote:
Ijustmovedtoanewoffice.Sincemovingmycellphonebatterydischarges(totalyphonewillnotturnon)afterabout3hrsintheofficewithnouse.Ithasneverdonethisandnowdoes
itdaily.Thereareseveralradarsoperatingwithin1/2mile.Couldtheybecausingthis?Tempatureiscoolandhumidityisabout20%.Thepersonwhohadtheofficebeforemesaiditdid
thesametoher.ItdoesnotaffectmyIPadorLaptop.WhatcouldcausethisandIsthisdamagingmybattery?Thanks
BigMartwrote:
IamevenmoreconfusednowthanwhenIstarted(notdifficult!).IusedtousemyAcer5715Zserieslaptopbatteryrunningitoffthemainsallthetime,wherepracticable.NowIletit
virtuallyfullydischargeandthenfullyrecharge.Inowbelievethatitiswrong
SoIamtoletitdischargeto50%andthenrechargeitbackto70%???
Isitokaytorunthelaptopwithoutthebatteryinside?
Pleasehelpasimpleton!!
Guillaumewrote:
@BigMart
Youwanttorunthelaptopwithoutthebatteryifyoucan.Dontleavethebatteryinthelaptopwhenyouareconnectedonthe120Vca.Apoorbatterychargerwillreduceyourbatterylife
withanbadchargingmethod.
Asitwassaidearlier,theoptimalchargelevelisaround50%ofthebatterycapacity.Youdontwanttogocrazywithyourlaptopschargelevel.Isuggestyoutousethelaptopbetween
40100%ofyourbatterycapacityandthenrechargeit.
BigMartwrote:
ThankyouGuillaumeforyourcomments.
Iamafraidyouarebittootechnicalforme!Whatis120Vca?Thebatterychargeriswithinthelaptop.
SoIchargeitup50%,iewhenitindicates50%left.Sowhatis40100%then?
AsyoucanseeIamsoconfused!!
BigMartwrote:
Wouldyouagreewiththissuppliersinstructions?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290565009405&
PavloMaksyutenkowrote:
Thesmallerthedepthofdischarge,thelongerthebatterywilllast
isWRONGbasedonTable2.Batterylife=(numberofcycles)x(depthofdischarge).Table2showsthat50%DoDisthebest.
BigMartwrote:
SowhatareyousayingPavlo?Dischargeto50%andthenchargeupto???
JohnFetterwrote:
23/55
29.04.2016
OnDecember22,2011RayWellswrote,Technologyshouldbehaveinawayhumanscandealwith.Heis100%right.Ifbatteriesarepoweringcomputerequipment,itshouldbeeasy
forequipmentmanufacturerstoincludeprogrammingthatlearnshowtheequipmentisbeingusedandtocontrolbatterychargingaccordinglyformaximumlife.
Simple.Unambiguous.Theequipmentwouldthenbeleftpluggedtoamainssupplyasmuchaspossible.Itwouldautomaticallyapplyoptimumcharging.Ifitdetectsexcessivelylong
absencefromamainssupply,itwarnstheuser.
Theyarenotdoingthissimplybecausetheywantuserstobeconfusedandtheywantbatteriestostopworking,onaverage,justoutofwarranty,sothattheycansellmorebatteries.
Deswrote:
Averyinformativewebpage.ImustadmitthatIhavemorethanIknewaboutbatteries.Iwillreferyoursitetomyfriends.
Thankstoallforyourwonderfulcontributions.
BigMartwrote:
Iwishsomeonecouldgivemesimpleanswesr
.
IjustwanttoknowifIamrunningitonbatterypowerhowlongIshouldletitrundowntoandthendoIrechargeittofullpower.IfIamrunningitthroughthemainsdoItakethattofull
power?WhenrunningitonthemainsdoItakethebatteryout?
Thankyou.
JohnFetterwrote:
Gotosupermarket,pickupsomethingfromthefreshproducesection.itcarriesdetailsaboutthecontents,cookinginstructions,etc.Buysomethingwithabattery,itcarriesinstructions
thatlookremarkablylikethreats.Dontdothis,dontdothat.Willburn,willexplode.Hey,Ijustwanttoknowhowtousethisthing!
Guillaumewrote:
@BigMart
Dontletitdrainouttomaximizelifeexpectancy.Whenyoureach2540%remainingcapacity,youshouldstartrechargingit.
BigMartwrote:
IconcurwithJohnFetterscomments.IstherenobodyouttherethatspeaksplainEnglish?
BigMartwrote:
Itakeacoach/trainjourneyeveryfewweekswhichlastsapprox2hours.Iuseitthenonbatterypower.WhenIreachmydestinationIcanthenusemains.
SoshouldIjustrunitoffthemainswhenpractical(removingthebatteryfirst?),orusebatterypower,butwhenIamdownto2540%(abigrange),plugitinuntilitreachesmaximum?
Guillaumewrote:
@BigMart
Withthatkindofuse,Iwouldrecommendtorechargethebatterythedaybeforeyourcoach/trainjourney.Youmayleavethebatteryatwhateverremainingcapacityforafewweeksif
thiscapacityisover25%.
Iftheremainingcapacityisbelow25%,rechargeituntilitreaches40%andthenstoreituntilthenextutilization.
Also,Isuggestthatyouremovethebatteryfromthelaptopforanextendeduseonmains.
BigMartwrote:
ThanksGullaume
AsIwillbeusingthelaptopoveracoupleofdays,soIwillneedtochargeitup,useitonbatteriesthenuseitonmainsuntilitchargesupagain.SoshouldIcontinuethisprocessuntilI
gethome?Iwillwantitfullychargedformyreturnjourney.
JohnFetterwrote:
Mycompanywasrunningaproductadonlinethathadabsolutelynothingtodowithlithiumionbatteries.Weinadvertentlywordeditinawaythatwasinterpretedbyunhappylithiumion
batteryuserstomeanwecouldhelpthem.Theeffectwaslikeatsunami.Theyclickedawaytheadbudgetforthedayalmostintheblinkofaneye.Itappearstherearevery,verymany
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veryunhappybatteryusersoutthere.
Theunderstandtheadvicethathasbeengiven.Ipersonallydonotfinditdifficultlookingafterbatteries.Thevastmajorityofusersareprimarilyinterestedinusing,notinmothering
batteries.Itisnotrightthattheuseofbatteriesrequiresuserparticipationanddecisionmakinginaprocessthatwillhopefullyhelptoovercomecriticalproductdesigndeficiencies.
Kells2122wrote:
IlovedwhatDerp&LukePatrickhadtosay.ItwasinlaymentermsthatIcouldunderstand.Ijustboughtanewhicapbatteryformyhplaptopandwanttomakeitmobile.NowI
understandhowtodothis.Thankyouforthearticleandalltheinfo.
Captbobwrote:
havetwo24voltbatterypackswhichruna11hpgolfcartmotorinmy10,500lbsboat
Havebeenstoreingbatteriesininsulated/heatedgarage40tp60F
outsidetemperature10to30F40to60daysperyearsouthernUtah
warmerrestofyear
shouldIbeleavingbatteriesoutsideinboatinthewinter
JohnFetterwrote:
CaptBobAssumingyour24Vbatterypacksareleadacid,iftheyweremine,Iwouldgivethemafullcharge,ensuretheyareleftdisconnectedandleavethemoutsideintheboatin
winter,undercover.Fullychargedsulfuricacidwillnotfreezelikewaterbutfreezesjustaboveminus40degrees.Lowtemperaturereduceschemicalactivityandthereforekeepsthe
batteriesfromdischarging.
Jonwrote:
GreatarticlebutIstillhavequestions:Ijustboughtanewlaptop.Itwillbeusedeverydayandthebatterywillneedtobeusedonmostdays.Iwillhaveaccesstoapowersourceabout
asmuchtimeaswillneedtousethebattery.ShouldIfullychargethebatteryto100%everyday?ShouldIremovethebatterywhenIcanplugthelaptopineventhoughthebatteryis
100%orcloseto?ImlookingforanysuggestionsyoumighthaveonhowIshouldmaintainmybattery.
zacharywrote:
isthereanywaytoconditionaLIIONifyoufailedtodothe8hourchargethefirstuse.iwasonthegowhenirecievedmycell.soitwasntchargedproperlythefirsttwodays?ifileaveit
onchargefor8straighthourswillthatconditionitifdonewithinthefirstweek?cycleit?otherprocedure,orisitdaylatedollarshort
Stevenwrote:
Istillusemy1stGeniphonefrom2007andthebatterycapacityisstillgood.EverydaywhenImhome,theiphonegoesonthecradleandgetschargedovernight,regardlessofhow
muchbatteryisleft,(usuallyover50%).MostofthemoderngadgetsthatuseLiionbatteryhavesmartchargerthatwillcutoffwhenthebatteryisfullycharged.Iguesschargingmy
iphoneeverynightsince2007haveprolongthelifeofthebattery.SoIconcurwiththearticle.
Martinwrote:
Whatisthedifferencebetweentakingoutthebatteryfromalaptopwhilenotinuse,andleavingthebatteryinthere,switchedoff?
Wombatwrote:
isthereasafewaytowakeupaLiionbatteryrelativelysafelyathome?ihaveanumberofbatteriesfromdrillsthatwontchargeandonlyshow1112v(theyare18vpacks)
AlaskaPopwrote:
Greatinformation,historical,evolvingtopresentfuture.Shouldhelpmeconservesome
legacysystemsbeyondaverage,whichisbetterthanIcouldhavemanagedbeforereadingthisessayNowIneedtofigureoutthechargeractionsofacoupleoflaptop/poweradapter
combinations,andusehabitsofmyassociates.Avoidheat,fulldischarge,prolongedidle,andonreallyoldsystems,overcharge,andweshouldseegooduselife.Thanksall.
logoitemswrote:
LiionorLithiumIonareoftenusedinnewlyproducedlaptopandmobiledevice.ActuallyiwroteaboutLaptopBatteryMaintenancebefore,itsabouthowtomaintainyourlaptopbatteryby
25/55
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doingregularfullycycle(fullychargeandthenfullydischarge).But,lateriknowthatthosemethodsareonlyworkonNiCadandNiMhbattery.
RajdeepSinghwrote:
Followingtheadviseofablog,IstartedstoringmyLaptopandMobilebatteryinanairtightcontainer.Afterreadingthisarticle,Iamconfusedwhethertoleavethemthereorstorethemin
roomtemperature?IliveinIndiawheresummertemperaturessoarto45degrees.Centigrade.Willroomtemperaturesbesafe?Pleaseadvise.Thankyouforthiswonderfularticleand
doconveymybestwishestoderp(honestlyheisagoodsoul)
haddywrote:
shouldidisconnectaftermybatteryisfullorshouldikeepitconnectedtocharger
RajdeepSinghwrote:
Youshoulddisconnect
MattJ.wrote:
SeveralcommentatorshaveconfirmedwhatIlongsuspected:thatasmartchargerwilldetectwhenabatteryisfullanddialbackthevoltage.Buttheyhavealsoconfirmedthatnotall
chargersarethissmart:sothenaturalquestionis:howdoItellifthechargerIamconsideringbuying,orthechargerthatcamewithmycomputeristhatsmartornot?
RajdeepSinghwrote:
MattJ.,youjusthavetohaveconfidenceontheChargerwhichcomeswiththeComputer.Theresnootheralternative.ifyoubuyacharger,makesureitmatchesthespecificationsand
itisfromthesamecompanyasthatoftheComputer.
RajdeepSinghwrote:
YoujusthavetohaveconfidenceontheChargerwhichcomeswiththeComputer.Shouldyoubuyanewone,thespecificationsshouldmatchtheComputersrequirementandshouldbe
fromthesameCompanyasthatoftheComputer.
MattJwrote:
@RajdeepThatisaskingalot.EspeciallysincethepublishedspecsforboththeOEMandaftermarketchargersdonotINCLUDETheinformation.Theyallclaim,forexample,tobe
capableofchargingLiONbatteries.Theaftermarketchargersalsocomewithalonglistofmodel#soflaptopstheyclaimtosupport.Butsincethisarticleandthecommentsclaimthat
manyofthemdonotdialdownthevoltagewhenthebatteryischarged,no,IdoNOThaveconfidenceontheChargerwhichcomeswiththeComputer.Notwithoutanexplicitguarantee.
RajdeepSinghwrote:
OfcoursethespecsintheBatteryarementioned.haventyounoticedit?InseveralarticlesandblogsyouwillreadonthewayshowtocalibrateyourLaptopBattery.Readthattoo.Dont
goforanycharger.Insistontheoneyouwereusingearlier.Thatwayyouaresafe.Myearnestsubmissiontoyou~One,buyanoriginalchargerwhichcamewithyourLaptopand
secondlearnhowtocalibrateyourbatteryperiodically.Thereisnoreasonwhyyourbatterychargingindicationshouldbewrong.Letmeknow.Iamjusttryingtohelpyou.
Garywrote:
wrtBigmartsquestiononJan.31Whatis120Vca?Ibelievehemeant120VAC,whichstandsforvoltsAC,standardmainsinN.America.
batmanforeverwrote:
mipspnosequierecargar.aliracargarlaenunossegundosseapagadazmesoluciones
RajdeepSinghwrote:
Withmyapologies~requestyoutokindlypostyourqueriesinEnglishonly
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MattJwrote:
ChargingabatteryinjustsecondsisNEVERagoodidea,batmanforever.Rememberwhatthearticleabovesaysaboutheatshorteningthelifeofthebattery:chargingtoofastWILL
raisethetemperaturetoohighandshortenitslife.
Tinawrote:
IamsorryaboutmylackofunderstandingbutIjustpurchasedanewbatteryformylaptop.IhaveanHPPavillion.Itcamewith74%chargesoIcontinuedtochargeitto100%.NowI
wanttomakesurethatmynewbatterylastslongerthanmyoldbattery.Itriedreadingandunderstandingthearticlebutmybraincannotseemtoprocessit.DoIallowthebatteryto
completelydischargeandrecharge?Ifso,howoften?Ifnot,howfardown,percentagewise,doIallowthebatterytodischargebeforeIallowittorecharge.Again,myapologiesformy
lackofunderstanding.Thanks!
MattJ.wrote:
@TinaThearticlewasnotTHAThardtoread)Buttheanswerstoyourquestionsareallbasedonthefollowingprincipleexpressedinthearticle:shallowcharge/dischargecyclesare
betterforbatterylifethandeepones.SoNo,youdonotallowittocompletelydischarge.10%dischargesallowthebatterytolastformuchlonger,butarethemselvestoosmalltoreallybe
practical.Ifyourlaptopandchargerhavegoodcontroloverthechargingcurrent,(aquestionthisarticledoesnoteventrytoanswer),thenyoushouldjustleaveitpluggedasoftenas
possible.
BigMartwrote:
IhavetoagreewithTina.Ifoundtheresponsesveryconfusing.
So,MattJ,areyousayingyoushouldleavethelaptoppluggedinwiththebatteryasoftenaspossible?WhatIhavegainedfromthearticleandresponses,isIhaveleftthebatterydrop
toapprox50%.Ihaveremovedthebatteryandrunningthelaptop(wherepracticable)offthemains.Isthisright?Ifnot,pleaseexplainsomyselfandTinacanunderstandit.
Thankyou.
MattJ.wrote:
@BigMartClose,butnotquite.WhatIsaidisthatyoushouldleavethelaptoppluggedinwiththebatteryasoftenaspossibleIFthechargingcircuityishighenoughquality.
Unfortunately,neitherthisarticlenorthevendorspecstellusenoughaboutthechargers:butoverchargingisalsobadforbatteries,andpoorchargersWILLoverchargethebattery.
Iamnotsurewhichofmycomputersandchargershavehighenoughquality.IfeelprettyconfidentoftheApplecomputers,lesssoofRadioShackorTarguschargersboughtforIBM
compatibles.
RajdeepSinghwrote:
ForTina~Allnewbatteriescomeinasemidischargedstate.Youshouldhavechargeditfullyandevenafterthatforatleasttwohoursbeforeusingyourcomputer.Nevermine...Now
chargethebatteryfullybeforeusingit.Letmeknow!!
RajdeepSinghwrote:
ForTina~Followthis.Allowthebatterytochargefully(withyourLaptopoff)Oncechargeduseyourlaptoponbatterymodetillitdischargesandyougetapopupsuggestingthatyou
havetochargeyourbattery.Againchargeyourbattery(withyourcomputeroff)anduseyourbatteryasabove.onlyonceinawhileyoumayuseyourLaptoppluggedinwiththe
batteryfully(Acircuitinthebatterystopsthebatterybeingchargedonceitattains100%soastoprotectthebatteryfrombeingovercharged)IfyouausingyourLaptopmoreasa
desktopformorethantwoweeks,itisbettertotakeoutthebatteryandkeepitinacolldryplace.Butpleaseuseyourbatteryatleastonceinamonth.PleasestoreyourLaptopbatteryat
40%~45%chargelevel`atwhichoxidationtakesplacetheleast.
RajdeepSinghwrote:
ForTina~Onceinawhile,inpluggedinmodewiththebatteryinyourLaptopgotoallprogrammes>H.P.SupportAssistant>TroubleShooting>PowerandThermal>Batterycheck.(
clickonBatterycheckandwait)YourLaptopwilltellyouthestateofyourbattery.Sofaryourbatteryisnew,youshouldnotahaveaproblem.IfyougetamessagesayingCALIBRATE
YOURBATTERY,pleasefeelfreetocontactmeatrajdeep218@gmail.com
BigMartwrote:
@MattJThankyouforyouradvice.WhatshouldIdothenwithmyAcerAspire5715Z.TheonlychargerIhaveforitisthechargerwithinthelaptop.
ShouldIputthebatterybackinandthenusethelaptopoffthemains?DoIdoanythingmorewhenitreaches100%charged?
IusemyPCmostofthetime,andtendtoonlyusethelaptopwhenIawayfromhome,ever23weeksforaweekend.
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Tinawrote:
@BigMartthanksforagreeingwithme.
@Rajdeepand@MattJIamabitconflictednowwithwhatyouarebothsaying.DoIallowittocompletelydischargethen?IthoughtcompletelydischargingaLithiumionbatterywas
NOTagoodidea.
Sorryagainformyconfusedstateofmindlol!
RajdeepSinghwrote:
ifyouaremostlyonthePCitisbetterthatyoutakeoutthebatteryandstoreat40%to45%andstoreittillyouworkonyourLaptopoverweekendsOncechargedto100%,poweryour
laptopfromthebatterytillitdrainsandagainchargeto100%preferablywithyourLaptopoff.ThiswillensurethatyourbatteryisalwaysinworkingconditionNothingtodowhenyour
batteryisfullycharged.Justremembernevertostorebatteriesat100%,nomatterwhat.UseyourLaptopandbringitdowntoatleast45%beforestoring.Rememberyourchargeris
onlyworkingwhenyouareonpluggedinmode.Inbatterymodeyourchargerisoffsonothingtoworry!!pleasemakesurebeforeinsertingyourbatterythatthecontactpointsareclean.
Gentlyrubaneraseroverthecontactsandblowofftheremnantsfromthepoints.Ifyoufollowtheepoints,iamsureyourbatterywillgiveyougoodservice.Allthebest!!
RajdeepSinghwrote:
ForTina~Completedischargeisknownasdeepdischarge.whichmeansyourcomputerhibernates.Nothisisnotgoodespecaiallyfortheharddiskasareversevoltagecancause
seriousdamage.Whenthevoltagedropstosay14%apopuptellsyoutopluginbeforeyourLaptophibernate.Rightlyso.SojustchargeyourbatteryPreferablywithyourLaptopofftillit
attains100%.AsecondPopUp(ItoohaveaHPPaviliong4)appearslaterwhenyouareon11%.PLEASEDONOTTAKEARISKANDSTARTCHARGING.Somebodysuggested10%
toindicateadeeperdischargeinanefforttocalibratethebatterybutthatisdifferentsubjectaltogetherwhichyournewbatterywillnotrequirenow.AndTinapleaserememberthatallHP
laptopsrevealthecorrectbatteryreadingaslongasyouhavetheapplicablechargerandbattery(whichcomesfromHP)andyouhavenotmessedaroundtryingtocalibrateyour
battery.Inthebeginningeveryoneisscared~butlateritwillbeyourLaptopwhichwillteachyoualotofthingssodonthavetofeelembarrassed.
Tinawrote:
@RajdeepSing...YOUROCK!!!Iamallsettogo.SeeIhavemyMastersDegreeinReadingunfortunatelynotalltypesofreadinglol.Thankyouverymuchfornotlettingmefeelstupid
orembarassed!
BigMartwrote:
ThankyouRajdeep.However,ifIamrunningthelaptopusingbatterypoweritwillprobablyrunoutofpowerwhileIamstillusingit(shouldIletitdraincompletely,orstartrechargingitat,
say10%?),sothereforeIwouldhavetorechargeitwiththelaptopon.Doesthatmakemuchdifference?
RajdeepSinghwrote:
ForBillMart~supposeyouareonbattery,waittillthesecondpopuparrives(11%)andthenstartchargingyoubattery(pluginmode)ifyouhaveimportantworktodo,carryon.
Theresnoharm.Preferablyputthelaptopoffcosalotofheatisbeinggenerated(whilechargingthebatterygetshototherwisetooandsecondlytheLaptopgeneratesenoughheat
whenon).Rememberthebiggestenemyofyourbatteryisheat.ApartfromthistheresnodifferenceifyouchargeyourbatterywiththeLaptopon.AlltheBest.
RajdeepSinghwrote:
ForTina~Theobjectiveofblogsandarticlesistoensurepeopleexchangeideasandlearn.Atonetime,Itoo,wasignorant.todayIfeelhappythatiaminapositiontoreassure
people.MaybeonedaypeoplewillaskyouaboutLaptopsandyouwillbeabletoanswertheirqueries
BigMartwrote:
Cheersforthat.
IfIhavefinishedwhatIamdoingandithasgottosay60%,doletitcontinueupto100%andthenrundown,orjustrundownfromthat60%?
JustwanttobeabsolutelyclearonwhatIamdoing!
RajdeepSinghwrote:
Rundownfrom60%.to11%.Putoffyourcomputerandchargeasusualto100%.iagree,itsbettertobesure.
MattJ.wrote:
@RajdeepDontfeeltoohappy,yourclaimsarequitecontradictorytothebasicclaimsofthisarticle.No,heshouldNOTwaituntilthebatteryisdischargedto11%Thatwouldbeoneof
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thedeepdischargesthatshortensbatterylife.
RajdeepSinghwrote:
@Matt.J~Ifmysuggestionisincontradictiontothisarticle,whydoesevenacompanylikeHPhaspopupscomingat14%andthenagainat11%byDEFAULT..Thecompanyinsists
thatBEFOREYOUCHARGEYOURBATTERY,YOUSHOULDDISCHARGEIT~KEEPINGINVIEWAFULLDISCHARGECYCLE.Everyoneknowsthatifyougobeyond11%,the
Laptopwillhibernate,sothecutoffpointis11%WHICHISNOTADEEPDISCHARGE.Hadthisbeenso,thecompanyswouldinsistyouchargeyourbatteryearlier,sayat20%or25%,
andthePopupswouldappearthen.......ThishasbeenagreeduponbyHPtoo..IdontknowwhichLaptopyouhavebutIsuggestyouillicittheiropiniontooonthematter.Andifyounot
agreeabletomysuggestion,itsbetteryoudontfollowit.THEREISNOCOMPULSION!!
MattJ.wrote:
@Rajdeep
Completelyhypotheticalspeculationisnosubstituteforreadingandunderstandingthearticle.Especiallynotwhenthatspeculationreliesonunlimitedbenevolenceofacompany.
Dischargingto11%ISdeepenoughtohaveasignificanteffectonbatterylife,nomatterwhatHPchargerssay.Thatisclearfromthearticle.
BigMartwrote:
WellIamnowevenmoreconfused.Isthereanybodythatworksinthebatteryindustrythatcangiveadefinitiveresponse?
RajdeepSinghwrote:
@BigMart~AskMattJ.~heseemstobeanauthorityonthissubject.!
@Matt.J.~Youvegotmewrongagain.Nowhereinthearticleitsaysthat11%isdeepenoughtohaveasignificanteffectonbatterylifeThisispurelybasedonyourassumption.
ThroughoutmycommentsIhavebeenmentioningCOMPANYandyousaidnomatterwhathpchargerssay.Foryourkindinformation,nochargermanufacturingcompanyinthe
worldspecifies,thelevelatwhichabatteryshouldberecharged(11%/14%)thatispurelytheresponsibilityoftheLaptopmanufacturingcompany.Chargersjustindicate,basic
specifications.itsthelaptopmanufacturingcompanywhichtellsyouwhentorecharge..Ifyouownanandroidmobilephone,youshouldbefamiliarwithLithiumbatteries.Justgoto
GooglesearchandyouwillseehordesofarticlesandblogsonLithiumbatteries~onhowtomaintainthem,chargingetc.WHATEVERINFORMATIONIAMPOSTINGHEREISNOT
HEARSAY~THEYAREBASEDONMYPERSONALEXPERIENCEANDCONFIRMEDBYHP.
OnMay7,2012at5:48pm
EskeRahnwrote:
Hi
Thanksforagreatarticle!
ButIwonderiftheconclusiondrawnontable2areabsolutelyaccurate?
HereIhaveextendeditwithathirdcolumn,takingthedeteriorationintoaccount.
DoDCyclesTotalUsabilty
100%500435
50%1500638
25%2500531
10%4700400
Theaddedlastcolumnsayshowmanytimesoffullchargeyouwillgetoutofthebatteryintotalduringitslifetimewitheachapproach.
Assumingalineardeteriorationofthebatteryfrom100%to70%ofitsoriginalcapacity(Thisassumptionisbackedbyagraphinthearticle)
Sotheintegrationissimple,andcanbereplacedbyameanfactorof85%[*]tothepureproduct.
ThiswouldyieldthattheoptimaltotalcapacitygainedfromthebatteryoveritslifetimeisaDODofaround50%
(Plottingthefourpointsandcombiningwithasmoothcurveindicatesthatthemaximumisaround6050%DoD)
[*]
Moreprecisely
Sum{n=0toN1ofDoD*(130%*n/N)}
=DoD*(N30%*Sum{n=0toN1ofn/N})
=DoD*(N30%(N1)/2)
=DoD*(N*85%15%)
~DoD*N*85%
BestRegards
EskeRahn
OnMay13,2012at10:39am
GamaXulwrote:
ThisinformationhasallowedmetofullyrecovertheuseofLithiumioncordlessdrillbatteriesforIhadthoughtwereirreversiblydamaged.Itsgoodtounderstandalittlebitofthescience
andpracticesofbatteriesandlongtermstorage.Imtakingfarbettercareofmytoolbatteriesnow,andImrunningonasetoftwoIhadntpreviouslycaredforproperly.Lifeextendedby
twoyearssofar!Thanksforthisinformation.
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Xiaopangwrote:
MattJ.,yourequiteexaggeratingbyclaimingthatdischargingdownto11%isalreadyadeepdischarge.Thinklogicallyforamoment:Companieshavethelegalobligationtodeliver
productswhofunctionwithintheexpectationsoftheirendusers.Ifaproductwouldactuallybedamagedextraordinarily(inthiscaseadeepdischargewouldqualifyforthat)whileitsuse
isalsowithinwhatcouldbeexpectedfromanormaluser,thenthismightmakethecompanyvulnerabletolawsuits.Notjustbecausetheydsellafalselyadvertisedproduct,butalso
becauseitwouldbedangerous.
Adeepdischargeshouldbeavoidednotjustbecauseitmightruinthebattery,butalsobecausesuchabatterymightsuddenlystarttoburnorevenexplode.Windowsallowstogoway
below11%(Xp3%,Vista/75%),soasaresultmillionsbatterieswouldbedamagedandaplethoramightcatchfireandburnbutthatdoesnthappenandforareason:
Adeepdischargeperdefinitioniswhenthecellvoltagedropsbelowaspecifiedvalue.For4.2Vcellphonebatteriesthisvalueisusuallyaround2.5V(60%).Fornotebookbatteriesthat
usuallyoperateintherangeof1012VIcouldntfindanyvalues,butapplyingthesameratioasabove,60%wouldequal67.2V.
ToactuallydebunkyourcarelesslyspitoutclaimIactuallyletmyNotebookdischargethebatterydownto30mW(0%)whileImeasuredthebatteryvoltage.Thebatteryusuallyoperated
at11.5Vwhenthecomputerisconnectedwiththecharger.Onbatterythevoltageisaround11Vandgoesdownthemorethebatteryisdischarged.At30mWchargethebatterystillhada
cellvoltageof9.6Vandthuswaswayabovewhatwouldqualifyforadeepdischarge.
Adeepdischargeusuallyonlyoccursifabatteryisusedbydevicesthatdontturnoffautomaticallyonlowchargeanddrawsolittlechargethemselvesthatbatteriescanbedischarged
muchlongeranddeeperthanthroughnormaldevices.
Notebooksnotjustturnoffautomatically,theyalsoneedaprettyhighchargeleveltoevenpowerup,sousingupthebatteryentirelystillleavesenoughchargeforthebatterytonotbe
damaged(anythingelsewouldbeaprettybigoversight/designflaw,wouldntit).Liionbatteriesareequippedwithsmallchipsetsthoughthatcontrolthechargingprocessandreportstats
backtotheoperatingsystem.Thisalsodrawspower,sodischargingabatterydownto0%andstoringitlikethatforweekswouldeventuallyresultinadeepdischarge.
So,forallofthosewhoareindoubt:tryitoutyourselfifyouareunsure.Youcanmeasurethebatteryvoltagewithhardwaremonitor.
MattJ.wrote:
Ijustcannotbelievehowmanypeoplecommentherewithouthavingacluewhattheyaretalkingabout.You,Xiaopang,areoneofthese.DIdyouevenLOOKatTable2?Howdidyou
missthehugedifferenceinnumberofcyclesforabatterydischargedto10%?Youaretheonewhocompletelymissedwhatthearticlesays,Igotitright.
Xiaopangwrote:
NoMatt,youjustcantreadandthrowanytermintotheringthatmakessensetoyou,regardlessofitsmeaning.Yourwords:
No,heshouldNOTwaituntilthebatteryisdischargedto11%Thatwouldbeoneofthedeepdischargesthatshortensbatterylife.
Myreplywasaboutexplaininghow11%isNOTadeepdischarge,becausethereisacleardefinitionofwhatadeepdischargeisandwhichyouapparentlydontknow.Ialsonever
claimedthatdischargingthebatteryby100%wouldnotlimititsrechargecycles.Ididntevengonearthat.
You,Matt,needtolearntocomprehendinsteadofjustlookingatafewisolatednumbersinthedesperateattempttofindproofforthetwistedideasyouapparentlytrytoconvey.
YourewelcometodisprovewhatIactuallysaidbyusingmyownwords,insteadofjustclaimingthatyougotitright,whileyouclearlyhavenocluewhatyouretalkingabout
Justtonotjustletyourlittlestatementdielikeitprobablyshould,Illputtable2intoperspective.Somethingyoushouldhavedoneyourselfinsteadoftreatingastheabsolutetruth.
Firstofall,table2isbasedon4.2Vcellphonebatteries,whileIwastalkingaboutnotebookbatteries.Bothtypesaredesignedfortotallydifferentuses.Whileacellphonebatteryisthe
solesourceofenergyforacellphoneslifeandisbeingrechargedonaregularbasis,anotebookbatteryisonlytheretodeliveroccasionalpowertoamuchgreaterextent.Chargingalso
onlytakesplaceoccasionally(grantedtheuser/software/chargingelectronics)behaveproperly.
Secondly,thenumberofchargesisdeterminedbyusinganarbitraryvalueofbatterylife.Thetextevensayssoitself.Didyouevenreaditordidyoujustlookattheprettygraphsand
numbers?Thethresholdvaluecouldbeanythingandtheresultingmeasurementsareoflittleuseforotherbatteries.Proofliesinthenumbersitself:
100%*500cycles=50.000%totalcharge
10%*4700cycles=47.000%totalcharge
Dischargingabatteryby100%netsmorechargeoverthebatteryslifethanonlyusingitupby10%.So,evenifthewordsyoulaidinmymouthwereactuallyutteredbyme,Idstillbe
rightduetothefactthatyoudidntanalyzewhatyouarguedwith.
Evenbetter:Thearbitrarythresholdof70%isunrealistic.Whogetsridofabatteryjustbecausethecellphoneonlyoffers3weeksofstandbyinsteadof4?Whobuysahorrendously
expensivenotebookbatteryjustbecausethebatteryonlydelivers5hoursofworktimeinsteadof7?Athresholdof30%wouldbemuchmorerealisticandwouldprobablyshowthatthe
100%dischargenetsmuchmorechargethanthe10%one.Thegapbetween50%and25%dischargewouldprobablyalsogetalotsmaller,ormaybeevenvanishatall.Idontknow
andyoudonteither,butthe10%100%discrepancyshowsthatthistableisoflittleworthforyourargument.
Repeatthetestwithawidearrayofcurrentnotebookbatteriesofdifferentbrandswithatleast10perbrandtominimizestatisticalflukesandthenyouhavesomenumberstoarguewith.
Rightnowyouhavesquat,letalonelogicoranalyticalskills.
MattJ.wrote:
No,Xiaoping,youaretheoneguiltyofthelionsshareofthechargesyouflingatme.Youwererightaboutonething:youshouldhaveletmylittlestatementdieinsteadofresponding
withyourangryscreed.
Ineversaidanythingaboutthrowingabatteryoutafteritisdeepdischarged.Norifdischargedto11%.Neitherdoesthearticle.Noraboutthrowingitoutafterthreeweeksofstandby.
Thatisyourfantasy.Butthedifferencebetween11%and10%isobviouslysmall.
Andhowdidyoumissthetitleofthearticle?Despiteyourpretense,itisNOTspecificallyabout4.2Vbatteries,itisaboutLiioningeneral.
Yourangryscreed,fullofequivocation,showsonlyyourowninabilitytounderstandeithermeorthearticle.Ifanyoneevergetsanythingusefuloutofitwhichisdoubtfulitwillbethe
articlesauthorrealizingwhathecouldhavewordeddifferentlytobetteravoidconfusionandneedlessarguments.
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Butevenifhehadwordeditperfectly,thereisnothinghecandoforanyonecluelessenoughtobelieveasyoudo,thatCompanieshavethelegalobligationtodeliverproductswho
functionwithintheexpectationsoftheirendusers.Thatwasfunny.WhydidyouTHINKmostsoftwarelicenseagreementsdisavowanyfitnessofpurpose?Theywouldnotbeableto
dothisifyourlegalobligationwerereal.Newsflash:itisnot.
TomVMartinwrote:
@Matt
ReferingtoTable2
Assuminga10%DoDgivesyou1unitofuseandyoucanrechargeit4700timesyouvegotten4700unitsofuseoutofthebattery.
Nowifyouhavea25%DoDyouget2.5unitsofuseperrecharge.Youcanrechargeit2500timesyouvenowgotten6250unitsofusefromthebattery.
Ifyouhavea50%DoDyounowget5unitsofuseperrecharge.Youcanrechargeit1500timesyouvenowgotten7500unitsofusefromthebattery.
Ifyouhavea100%DoDyouvenowgotten10unitsofuseperrecharge.Youcanrechargeit500timesyouvenowgotten5000unitsofusefromthebattery.
InadditionkeepingthebatterytoppedoffiscontradictorytotheinformationcontainedinTable3.
IvefoundIobtainthebestlifeandlengthofusebetweenchargesbyallowingthebatterytodischagetillthedevicetellsmeitneedstoberecharged,andthenrechargingitatthattime.
Craigwrote:
Imustadmittobeingslightlyconfused.Yousaytheworstconditioniskeepingafullychargedbatteryatelevatedtemperatures,whichisthecasewhenrunningalaptoponthepower
gridbutthengotosayThequestionisoftenasked:ShouldIdisconnectmylaptopfromthepowergridwhennotinuse?Undernormalcircumstancesthisshouldnotbenecessary
becauseoncethelithiumionbatteryisfull,acorrectlyfunctioningchargerwilldiscontinuethechargeandwillonlyengagewhenthebatteryvoltagedropstoalowlevel.Mostusersdonot
removetheACpower,andIliketobelievethatthispracticeissafe.
Surelyleavingthelaptoppluggedinallthetimewillleadtokeepingafullychargedbatteryatelevatedtemperatures,no?
Xiaopangwrote:
Lookslikeafewcommentsweredeleted,includingmyreplytoMattandthatwithoutanexplanationnice.
Matt:Heresthegistofmylastreply.
Youwererightaboutonething:youshouldhaveletmylittlestatementdieinsteadofrespondingwithyourangryscreed.
Yeah,trytosweepthefactundertherugthatIclearedupyourwholemisconceptionaboutdeepdischargesandtheerroneousadviceyougavewithit.Thatwasalsothesolepurpose
ofmycomment,soIguessIwasrightabouttwostatements.Notabadquotainatwostatementpost
Ineversaidanythingaboutthrowingabatteryoutafteritisdeepdischarged.Norifdischargedto11%.
Neversaidyoudid.
Neitherdoesthearticle.
Thearticleused70%capacityasathresholdandcalleditendoflife.Idprettymuchcallabatterythathasreacheditsenddead.Whatdoyoudowithdeadbatteries?Ithrowthem
out
Noraboutthrowingitoutafterthreeweeksofstandby.Thatisyourfantasy.
No,thatwasananalogytoshowyouhowuselessnumbersbasedonsuchhighthresholdsare.Bydefinitionofthearticle,youdhavetogetridofbatteriesatthatpointbecausetheyare
considereddead.Theconclusionyoushouldreach,otherthanbeingsidetrackedbyyourownpoorwayofarguing,isthatamorerealisticthresholdmightshowthatthechargethatcould
beexpectedwouldbeprettymuchevenforcertainchargelevels.Maybetheoppositewouldbethecase,butnooneknowsthat.Thatswhyyoucantusethenumbersasabasisof
yourargument.Theirnaturejustdoesntallowanyconclusions.
Butthedifferencebetween11%and10%isobviouslysmall.
10%DISCHARGEofTable2!=11%CHARGE(=89%discharge).Yeah,thedifferencebetween10and89%(or90and11%ifyouwanttolookatthechargelevels)isobviouslysmall
Andhowdidyoumissthetitleofthearticle?Despiteyourpretense,itisNOTspecificallyabout4.2Vbatteries,itisaboutLiioningeneral.
Andwheredoesthearticlesaythattheprotectioncircuitisthesameforcellphoneandnotebookbatteries?Youimplytheyworkexactlythesame,eventhoughthatmakesnosenseat
allsincebothbatterytypesaredesignedfortotallydifferentusagescenarios.
Yourangryscreed,fullofequivocation,showsonlyyourowninabilitytounderstandeithermeorthearticle.
Yourobviouslackofunderstandingandyourpoorwayofarguingmakemerathersmilethanangry.Howyougetangeroutofmyreplyisbeyondme,butyouvebeenmisinterpretingthe
articleandmyrepliessomuchthatImnotreallysurprised.
Btw,provideproofforyoursocalledequivocations.Myrepliesarerightthere.Usequotesforonceinyourlife.
Ifanyoneevergetsanythingusefuloutofitwhichisdoubtfulitwillbethearticlesauthorrealizingwhathecouldhavewordeddifferentlytobetteravoidconfusionandneedless
arguments.
Thearticleisveryclearinwhatitsays.Itjustdoesnttakeamateurslikeyouintoaccountwhocantevendistinguishpercentagesofchargeanddischargelevels
31/55
29.04.2016
Butevenifhehadwordeditperfectly,thereisnothinghecandoforanyonecluelessenoughtobelieveasyoudo,thatCompanieshavethelegalobligationtodeliverproductswho
functionwithintheexpectationsoftheirendusers.Thatwasfunny.
Justbecauseyoufounditfunnydoesntmakeituntrue.WhatIdescribedispartofmanycaselawandcodifiedlawbasedcountries.Youclearlyarenolawyerandyoualsoclearlylack
propercommonknowledge:
Ifadefectiveproductcausesanaccidentthatresultsindeath,injuryorpropertydamage,themanufacturer,distributor,retailerandlessoroftheproductmaybeliableforthedamages
causedbytheproduct.[...]Theplaintiffmustestablishthataproducthasadefectthatmadeitunreasonablydangerousatthetimetheproductleftthecontrolofthedefendant.[...]Itmay
alsobepossibletoshowthattheproductwasdefectivebecauseitdidnotperforminkeepingwiththeusersreasonableexpectations.
Source:http://www.osbar.org/public/legalinfo/1047_DefectiveProducts.htm
WhydidyouTHINKmostsoftwarelicenseagreementsdisavowanyfitnessofpurpose?
Software!=Hardware.Softwaredoesntexplodeorcatchfirewhenbeingdeepdischarged.Also,showmesuchanagreementforanynonSoftwareproduct.Youwontfindany,butjust
incaseyoudo,itwouldbeinviolationofbasicallyanywesternlaw.
CelineSuchanekwrote:
Ihadaquestion.
Ihavea2.3androidwiththeBL4D3.7voltLionbattery.Ihavefoundthatoverchargingdoesreducebatterylife.IhavehadthephoneonlyacoupleofmonthsandIdonotuseitalot
becauseeachtimeIdoafteracoupleofhoursthebatteryislow.Ireceivedtwobatterieswiththephonebutitisstillaproblem.Ihaveletitgetto0percentacoupleoftimesand
rechargeditto100percent.Thishasnothelped.IknownotsmartbutitwasasuggestionIreadbeforeIreadthearticle.Ihavenothadproblemswithpreviousphoneswhenitcomesto
batterylife.AmIdoingsomethingwrong?Iemailedthecompanybuttheyhavenotresponsed.Anyhelpwouldbegreatlyappreciated.Alsowhatandroidphonehasthebestbatterylife?
IsthereanextendedversionofthebatteryIhave?
CadexElectronicsInc.wrote:
Helloall,
ThisarticlehasbeenupdatedwithlotsofnewinformationfromIsidor.
Enjoy!
Brandon
Joewrote:
Thesedays,wehavealotofSmartPhonesonthemarketliketheIphonewhichwecannotremovethebatteryforchargingusingothermachine.Isthereaway,wecouldanalyzeor
usingotheraccessoriestochargeitwhitethebatterystillinsidethephone.
azamuddinwrote:
Thistreepowerarticleisprettyinteresting.Forthoseofyouwhomaybewellversedinchargeanevehiclesbatterypack?Electricalcircuitruns39senoughpowerintreesfor
UniversityofWashingtonresearchersto
AndreGardnerwrote:
Hi
IvebeenmonitoringmybatterywearforawhilenowcarefullywithBatteryBarProv3.5.4andmyconclusionisthatoverdischargingandoverchargingyourbatteryisdamagingand
alwaysresultsinwear.
SonowIneverallowthebatterytotricklechargeto100%pullingouttheplugbeforearound90%to95%max.Ithenrunthebatteryuntilaround50%to35%andthenstartchargingit
again.Bydoingthisallthetime,BatteryBarProregisterstheminimumamountofwear.Infactaslipfromthisregimealwaysseemstoresultinafewpercentagepointsofwear.IthinkI
basicallydomanuallywhatsomesystemscandoautomaticallythroughasettingintheBIOS(wishIknewaboutthisfeaturebeforebuyingmylaptop!).
Sothatsmycommentreally.IreallyrecommendBatterBarProsoyoucanreallykeepaneyeonwhatisgoingon.Butrememberthecomputerneedsarestartforanywearlevel
numberstobeupdated.
Hopehishelps!
Andre
demajoorwrote:
thisisforlaptopsipresume
idontthinkthisworksforphoneslikethehtconexorhasthatbeentestedto?
32/55
29.04.2016
BigMartwrote:
Andre
Ifyouneverchargeitto100%,whataboutwhenyouwanttousejustbatterypower?Iwillbegoingonatrainjourneytomorrow,andwanttouseitontheway.Therearerarelymains
sockets.Iwantthemaximumamountoftimeavailable.
AndreGardnerwrote:
ToreplytoBigMart
Ithinkthebestthingtodoistochargetosomethinglike97%to98%andthatwillrestrictthebatteryweartotheabsoluteminimumandwonthavetocompromisetoomuchbatter
capacity.
HavingsaidthatIthinkitisinevitablethatyouwillneedtofullydischargethebatteryfromtimetotimewhenonthetrainforexamplebutyoujustbearinmidthatthiswillmostlikely
damageyoubatteryabitunfortunately.
Hopethishelps.
Regards
BigMartwrote:
Ithinkmybatteryforthelaptopisnowalmostattheendofitsusefullife!Icanonlygetjustoveranhourfromitwhenfullycharged.
Isthereanywherethatisrecommendedtobuyareplacementone.Ididaskthelaptopmanufacturer(Acer)butitwashorrendouslyexpensive.
Thanksinanticipation
AndreGardnerwrote:
JustsearchforitinGooglebyputtinginthemodelnamewiththewordsreplacementbatteryinthesearchbox.Notethatlaptopbatteriesarenotthatcheapyoushouldexpecttopayat
least$50.
BigMartwrote:
ThankyouAndre.Ijustwonderedifanyoneknewofagoodreliablecompany.
Hassanwrote:
Hi.ThisisHassanihavehpprobook4530.ThebatteryisPR06NotebookBattery3ICR19/662.10.8Vdc4200mAh.Ifacepoweroutagesalmostaftereveryoneortwohours.Ifi
chargemybatteryto40%andthenputinfridgeandduringpoweroutageiwillusethebattery.Isthispracticeagoodone?Ifyesplztellmethe%chargingthatishoulduseforthebattery.
OnAugust8,2012at6:55pm
JohnFeltzwrote:
Ivewrittenasmallprogramtoperformunattendedshutdownsofbatterypowereddevices(suchaslaptops)atspecificcharges.ItisforUbuntuorLinuxusers,howeverifthereis
enoughinterestIllconsiderportingitforwindowsandmac:
https://github.com/jfeltz/powersleep
DanielDouradowrote:
ThechargerthatcamewithmyMotorolaRazris5.1vHowcome?Ifthemaximumis4.2?
Hervewrote:
Ireadtheoriginalversionofthisarticle(whoseonlytablewastheveryenlighteningTable3)manyyearsago,thankstotheauthorsforupdatingitwithmoretablesandveryinformative
data.
Imafraidtherearetwotyposleft:
inthecommentonFigure1:Apoolofnew1500mALiionbatteries>shouldbeApoolofnew1500mAhLiionbatteries
inthecommentonTable4:Every0.01Vdrop>shouldbeEvery0.1Vdroptomatchthetablevalues(e.g.4.2to4.1).
GEOwrote:
muitobomparabns
33/55
29.04.2016
Janetwrote:
Thebatteryuniversityisatremendousservice.Thanksforkeepingitupdated.IagreewithHervestypocorrectionsabove.
Iworkedwithbatteriesformanyyears,soIhopemywordswilltakeawaysomeofthebatteryandcharginganxietythatmanyhaveexpressedinthecomments.Herearethekeythings
torememberaboutLiIon:
1.LiIonhasalongshelflife,exceptifitisstoredfullydischarged.Hence,thecommonrecommendationtostoreatabout40%stateofchargeorabove.STOREBETWEEN100%AND
40%STATEOFCHARGE..
2.AllnamebrandcompaniesproducechargersthatstoptheLiIonchargeat100%.Itisthebestpracticetoallowthechargertocompletethecharge.Opportunisticcharging(lessthan
fullcharge)isokandwillnotharmthebattery.Thereareelectroniccontrolmoduleseitherinthebatterypackorthechargerthatdecidewhenthechargeiscomplete.USETHE
MANUFACTURERSCHARGERANDALLOWTHECHARGETOCOMPLETEMOSTOFTHETIME.
3.Youdonotneedtostorethebatteryintherefrigeratoranditmaybeharmfultostorethebatteryinthefreezer.Yourbatteryishappyatthesametemperatureyouarecomfortable.
Themostimportantthingyoucandoforthebatteryisdonotleaveitinthecaronahotday.Samegoesforyourdogoryourkids.STORETHEBATTERYATROOMTEMPERATURE.
4.Ifyouareusuallypluggedinwhenyouwork,thebatterydoesnotevenneedtobeinyourlaptop.(Checkyourinstructionbookorifyouhavechildren,usegoodjudgment.)
Justmakesurethebatteryterminalsaretapedsoyoudonotinadvertentlyshortit.ORTrynotplugginginthelaptopsomeworksessions.Mostwilltellyouwhenthebatteryisgetting
lowandyouhaveplentyoftimetoplugitin(butthisisusingupyourbatterylife).Eitherwayavoidskeepingthebatteryatfullstateofchargeallthetimeandrepetitivecharging(starting
chargeonafullychargdbattery)whichisdetrimentaltobatterylife.Thereisavarietyofchargerqualityonthemarket.Somebattery/chargercombinationswilldetectthissituation
soonerthanothers.TRYNOTTOKEEPYOURBATTERYONCHARGEORFULLYCHARGEDALLTHETIME.
Iunderstandthebatteriesareexpensiveandyouwantthemostlifeoutofthem.Togetthemostlifefromthebatteryreallyisassimpleasthe4BESTPRACTICESlistedabove.Yourlife
istooshorttobebabysittingyourbatteriestryingtodecidethedepthofdischargefortodayand/orrunningtothefridgeforabattery.Enjoy.
MattJ.wrote:
Janetwrote:USETHEMANUFACTURERS
CHARGERANDALLOWTHECHARGETOCOMPLETEMOSTOFTHETIME.
TowhichIreply:
Butonwhatgroundsdoyouassertthatithastobethemanufacturerscharger?WhywouldntaTargusUniversalCharger(forexample)haveacontrolmodulecapableofdoingthe
controljustaswell?
Janetwrote:
Itisbesttouseachargerdesignedfortheintendedproduct.Ifthereisareliablethirdpartychargerspecificlyintendedtochargethebatteryforyourproductthenitwouldalsobe
acceptable.Thisisforsafetyreasonssothatthemonitoringandcontrolcircuitsusuallywithinthebatterypackoperatecorrectlytocontrolthebatterycharge.
OnSeptember25,2012at2:12pm
jaywrote:
WhataboutusingaTouchstonedock(HpTouchpad)Thegeneralconsensusonthetouchpadforumsisthatitissafetopopthetouchpadonthewirelessdockwhichalsochargesitto
fullcapacityMostpeopleareleavingtheirtouchpadsonthisdockeverynightanddayandtakingitoffinbetweenforminimaluse.Iecheckingemail,browsingthenthrowitstraightback
onthetouchstone.
Thiswouldseemtoindicatethatthesetouchpadsarepermanentlylivingat100%ornearcaoacityatallofthetime.Canthisbesafeorhealthyforlongtermmaintenence?
Apparentlytheirdoesseemtobearashofissuesrethehptouchpadsbatterynotwakingfrompoweringoffordischarging.
Maybekeepingittoppedoffcansaveitfromaccidentallydeepdischarging,asitseemstheautopoweroffchipmaynotbefunctioningcorrectwiththesoftware/hardware
johnhwrote:
thanksto(almost)allwhocontributehere.Ihavereallyenjoyedreadingthearticlesandthecomments/speculations.Ihaveafewofmyown,andIwouldlovetohearbackfromall
(almost)ofyou.First,fromreadingthecommentsandseeingthatthereisnot100%agreementonthedosanddonts,itwouldseemtomethereisamissingfactor,whichIwould
respectfullysuggestismanufacturingqualityofthebattery.Frommyownexperience,Ihavehadsomedeviceswhichwereabused,yetmaintainedgoodruntimecapacitiesforlong
lifespans,aswellasothersthatwerebabiedanddiedridiculouslyprematureandexpensivedeaths.Inthecaseoflaptoppacksandothermultiplecellassemblieslikethoseusedwith
cordlesstools,myforensicinvestigationsrevealindividualcellswhichhavefailedeitherbyshortingorsomeformofdiminishedcapacitywhichrenderstheentirepackuseless.
Myquestiontodayconcernstheuseofdifferentchargingconnectionsandtheireffectonrates/qualityofchargeaswasmentionedbysome,thechargingcircuitryiscontainedwithinthe
device(cellphone).Assuch,howisitthatIgetafasterchargefrom,say,theonethatplugsintothecigarettelighterascomparedtotheonethatisusbpowered?Obviouslythevoltage
sourcesaredifferent,butdoesthatmeanthephoneissosmartitisdecidingformewhetherIwantaquickchargeoraveryslowone?Shouldntthephonelookattheincomingsource
andautomaticallyregulateitdowntotheappropriaterate?Alloftheautomotiveand120vreceptaclechargesIhavechargeataratethatismuchfasterthanusb.Isthentheusbthe
preferredway?
thanks
carolwrote:
HowaboutthelargerLiIonbatteriesusedinyardtools?Minehavedecreasedtheirlifeofchargetimeaswellasthetimeittakestochargethemfully.Thesearegreenworks
batteries.Isthereawaytoturnthisaroundandgetthelongerchargetimeback?
34/55
29.04.2016
johnhwrote:
HiCarol
Iwillgetmy2centsworthinandthenhopefullysomeotherswillhavesomethingtoadd.Fromwhatyouaredescribing,whichincludesbothshortruntimesandlongchargetimes,I
wouldhavetoconcludethatyourbatterypacksarereachingtheendoftheirusefullives.Theconditionyoudescribesoundstomeliketheinternalresistanceofthebatteriesisrising.If
youascribetothephilosophiesofB.U.,thenyouunderstandthatitisnotpossibletorejuvenatethelithiumcells,andcouldalsobedangeroustotry.Unfortunately,thelessonyouhave
learnedisoneIthinkmostofusareperpetuallyrepeating,andIamstrugglingtounderstandcompletelywhattheprocessisthatdestroysmostofthesecells.Ihavehadveryveryfew
oftheselithiumcellswhichliveduptotheirstatedlifeexpectancies.Myownexperiencewouldsuggest3mainfactors:#1:Quality/properuseofchargercircuit.#2.:Qualityofactual
Lithiumcells.#3:Usagepatternsandenvironmental(heat)considerations.ThecommentslistedabovefromJanetarealongthesamelinesaswhatIbelieveIneffect,weare
inadvertentlykillingalotofthesebyputtingthem/leavingthemonchargersthatarenotwellengineered.
carolwrote:
ThanksJohnH.Iwasjusthopingthattherewasatricktoactuallygettingtheperformancefromthebatteriesthatwaspromisedinthesalespitchfortheproduct.Sillyme!
Raphaelwrote:
MyLenovoG480andothercurrentLenovonotebooksasIknowhasasoftwarecalledenergymanagementsystemwhichyoucantweaktomakethebatteryfullychargeincase
yourealwaysusingunitwithouttheACpoweroritwillhavethechargerchargethebatteryupto60%levelifyourefrequentlyusingtheACpower.NowIknowtherationaleofthis60%
afterreadingthisarticle.Thankyou
Mohammadwrote:
tnxforusefularticeIhaveanewlenovoY580andIdontknowhowtochargeitforthefirsttime.woulduhelpmeplz..
AndrewGwrote:
MyNikondigitalSLR(D50)wasboughtinDecember2005.Ivetakenabout7000pictures,soIguessthecameraisntusedagreatdeal.ItsrunbyanENEL3aLiIon,7.4v1500mAh
batterypack.Irechargethebattery(8.4v,0.9ampNikoncharger)assoonasthecameradisplaysalowbatterysymbolintheviewfinder.IguessIrechargethebattery6to10timesa
year.
ButImworriedasImstillusingtheoriginalbattery.
IknowIveonlyrechargedit(maybe)70times.Wellshortofthe200+rechargecycles.
Butthecamera/batterynevergetcoldorhot.Assoonasthechargeiscomplete,Iputthebatterybackinthecamera.AttherateIusethebattery,willitlastanother7years?Oris
thereafinitetimeitwilllast?
Ihaveadigitalvoltmeter.IsthereasimplemeasurementIcouldmakethatwouldgivemeanindicationhowmuchlifethereisinthebatterypack?
FYI:Immediatelyafterchargingthebatterymeasured8.31v
Onehourlateriswas8.29v
Eighthourslateritwasstill8.29v
Youexpertthoughtwouldbeappreciated!
BestwishesfromtheUK!
JasonLeewrote:
IthinkitsratherimpossibletodoapartialdischargeonApplesmobiledevices.TheiPadisequippedwiththreebatteries,theMacBooksareequippedwithsix.ButImnotsureifthey
dishcargeoneaftertheotheroralltogether.
JamesBond,Jnrwrote:
Howaboutlithiumionbatterysafety?Hundreds,perhapsthousandsofhandheldandlaptopdeviceshavebeenburntoutbylithiumionbatteryfires.TheChevroletVoltlithiumionbattery
caughtfireseveraltimes.TheBoeing787Dreamlinerlithiumionbatterycaughtfireseveraltimes.Asubmarineandseveralaircrafthavebeenwrittenoffbylithiumionbatteryfires.
DickLawrencewrote:
JasonLee,youriPadhasitsbatterieswiredinseries.Thevoltagepoweringthedeviceisthesumofthe3batteriesvoltages,e.g.around12V.Theyalldischargetogether.TheMacBook
probablyhas2parallelstringsof3batteriesbut(liketheiPad)theystillalldischargetogether.
JamesB.takealookatlithiumironphosphate(LiFePO4)batterytechnologyandtheabusethesetakeinordertobecertifiedsafe(tomeetUNsafetyrequirements)Ifounda
descriptionofthesetestsonthissite.Theyincludepoundingasteelspikethroughthebattery.Theystilldontoverheatorstartfires.Verytoughtechnologyandverylongcyclelife.Ibuilt
abicycleheadlight/taillightsystemwiththemandtheyreworkinggreatafter2years.DL
35/55
29.04.2016
JamesBond,Jnrwrote:
DickL
Youarerecitingthesalesblurb.Itookthelithiumionbatteryfireinformationfromnewsreports.Theairlinesthatboughtthe787dontwanttoflythemuntiltheproblemisfixed.
DickLawrencewrote:
James:differenttechnology.LiFePO4isthevariantthatwasthebasisforthelategreatA123Systemsbatterycompany,whowereanxiouslyworkingtogetintotheelectriccarindustryin
abigway,beforetheywentdownandwereacquiredbyaChinesecompany(notsureitsadonedealyet).BatterySpace.comsellsLiFePO4batteriesbytheway.Didyouevenlookat
theU.N.qualificationtestreports?Itsnotmarketingsalesliterature.
PlainoldLithiumIonismorepronetooverheatandriskstartingafire,astheunhappyfolksatAppleknow.Ifyouhaveinformationlinkingthe787issuestoLiFePO4technologypleaselet
usknow,withcorroboratinglinkssupplied.
JamesBond,Jnrwrote:
Dick
IbelieveBoeingwouldonlyhaveusedthebestofthebestlithiumiontechnologyYetitfailed.Lithiumionbatterytechnologyisinclinedtoburn.Youseemtobedigressing.
PierLuigiwrote:
Ivebeentalkedthattoimprove/increasethelifespanofoutbatteries,itisquiterecommendedtorundischargingcyclesevery6months.Couldanyoneadvicemeaboutit?
IwasserchingonInternetforaBatteryDischargerandifoundouttheitembelow:
http://www.amperis.com/en/products/misc/batterydischargers/
Ilookingforwardtohearingfromyour.Thankyouverymuchforyourcollaboration.
MartinRosenwrote:
Wouldthisproductbeofanyuse?http://www.mightydeals.co.uk/deals/national/GadgetsGifts/PowerBankRecharger/4033?
lsid=550200030&campaign=Affiliate_Window&utm_source=Affiliate_Window&utm_medium=Affiliate_Marketing&utm_campaign=Affiliate_Window_Sale
DickLawrencewrote:
Pier,theBatteryDischargeryoulinktoismostlyfortestingbatteriesnotforrecommendedmaintenanceorimprovingthebattery.
Thebenefitsofdischargingabatterydependsonthebatterytype(chemistry).Forleadacidbattery,deepdischargeisBADforthebatteryandwillshortenitslifetime.Fornickelcadmium
somepeoplerecommendoccasionalfulldischargeandtherecharge,citingthememoryeffectofnickelcadmiumchemistryIthinkyourquestionmaybeaboutnickelcadmium.Other
peopleclaimthememoryeffectisamyth.Youwillfindgoodinformationonthisbatteryuniversitysite,itisaverygoodsourceofinfoonbatteriesofallkinds.
Lithiumion,likeleadacid,doesnotbenefitfromdeepdischargeyouwillgetlongerlifefromlithiumionchemistrybyonlydischargingto2530%andrechargingto8090%storingitat
fullcharge(100%)foralongtimeisalsonotgoodwhichisthetopicofthisforum,actually.Therearesomegoodarticlesandgraphsherethatexplainit.DL
DickLawrencewrote:
James,IstronglydoubtBoeingusedLiFePO4technologyitsrelativelynewandthe787wasindesignformanyyears.Theyareconservativeaboutbringinginnewtechnology
especiallywheresafetyisconcernedeventhoughLiFePO4wouldhavebeenabetterchoice,inretrospect.
Gotohttp://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4cellspacks.aspxandthenclickonKnowledgeonLiFePO4battery.LookattheNeedleTestthisiswheretheypoundasteelspikeright
throughthebattery,causingadeadshortthroughallitslayers.Alsotheshortcircuitvoltagevs.temptestthebatterygetshotbutdoesnotburn,outgas,orexplode.Thisisanastytest
butLiFePO4doesitmoresafelythantraditionalLiionasthepresentationmakesclear.
IfyouhaveevidenceBoeingspecifiedLiFePO4fortheirbatteries,pleaseprovideithere.
DL
JohnFetterwrote:
Leadacidautomobilebatteriesarepurposedesignedtodeliververyhighcurrentsbriefly.Theydonotcycleverywell.Mostpeoplearefamiliarwiththistypeandmistakenlyassumethis
typerepresentsleadacidtechnology.
Leadacidmotivepowerbatteries,incontrast,arepurposedesignedforcyclingand,dollarfordollar,willoutperformeveryotherchemistrywhenusedondeepdischargecyclingduty.
JamesBond,Jnrwrote:
36/55
29.04.2016
Dick
IbelieveyouintroducedLiFePO4intothediscussion.Thereisobviouslyadifferencebetweenabatterythatpowersahandhelddrill,smallenoughtohaveasteelspikedriventhroughit
withimpunity,andaverylargebattery,powerfulenoughtostartoneofthelargestturbofanjetenginescurrentlyinuse.
JasonLeewrote:
Thanks,Dick.Thatwasaveryhelpfulpost.+1foryou.
Silentconwrote:
Whatlevelshouldikeepthebattery?30%80%or40%90%?
BradPwrote:
Seemslikealotofpeoplemoreexpertthanmehere.
IjustboughtanexpensiveLiionpoweredcar(nogas,onlybatterypowered).Thebatteriesweremanufacturedbyaleadingglobalmanufacturer.Thecarwasdeliveredtomewiththe
batteriesinsleepmode,inwhichstateithadbeenforatleastaweek,probablytwo,possiblylonger.Ibelievethebatteriesdischargedto2.6%oftheirrecommendedfullcharge,sleep
modekickinginatabout56%offullcharge.Iambeingtoldorallybythecarcompanythattherehasbeennodamagetothecarsbattery(abouthalfthevalueofthecar),andthatthere
isnochanceofanycoppershuntshavingdeveloped,andthatthecarcouldhavecontinuedtosleepforanother4monthsuntilanydamagewouldoccur.Afterowningandchargingitfor
amonth,Iseewhatlookslike25%moredailyidlebatterydischargefrommybatterythanothersareexperiencing.ShouldIbelievethemandnotpressanyclaim?
GregZengwrote:
Somanycomments,socouldyouaddthelastdateoftheoriginal,sothatwecanavoidreadingoldcomments?
Incasenotcovered:
1)Batterychargersometimesbreakse.g.inbuiltchargerofmobiledevices,especiallyifsubjecttoheat,dust,vibration&fluids(includinghumidity).Mostcomoninoldmobilephones.
2)Electricalcontactdeterioration,asinthefirstpoint,butbetweenbattery,chargerorthedevice,orcombinationofallofthese.Repairedbycleaning&stoppingvibration.
3)Prematureaging(batteryand/orcharger).Statisticalbadluckoffactoryproduction,especiallyafterageing,heat,moisture,vibrationeffects.
Finwrote:
Thanksforthegoodadvice.Ihaveaquestionifthelaptopbatteryrunsoutveryquickly(34min),thismeansthatitisalreadybroken,andyetsomehowyoucanrecalibrateit,fixit?
Aviwrote:
SamsungGalaxyNoteIIhasa3100mAHLiionbattery.SomeInternetsitessuggestchargingthebatterywhenitreaches10%,whileothersitessuggestconnectingthechargerwhenit
reaches50%anyideaswhichmightbecorrect?
Thanks!
KUwrote:
Doesanyoneknowtheimprovementinthe#ofcyclesifthechargedischargeis0.5Cinsteadof1C
JamesBond,Jnrwrote:
Greatnews!Boeingsortedouttheirlithiumionbatteryproblem.Theyseemedtohavebrushedtheengineersaside,proudlybroughtinateamoflegalmindedjohnnies,whoproceededto
telleveryonetheyhadknownabouttheproblemsince2008,justdidnotusethatsolutionbecausethepaperworkwasoutofsequence.
Alanwrote:
@Avi:Ifyoureadthearticleabove,youwillseeaDepthofDischarge(DoD)tablewiththefollowinginformation:
100%DoD==>300500
50%DoD==>1,2001,500
Fudgingthenumbersinthetable,youcanget:
90%DoD==>480700
80%DoD==>560900
Andsoon.Basedonthat,Isuggestyoudonotletyourbatterydroplowerthan30%.Inaddition,ifpossibledonotchargeyourbatteryto100%.
37/55
29.04.2016
JamesBond,Jnrwrote:
Notsuchgreatnews.Samelithiumionbatterymanufacturer,batteriesfittedtoMitsubishielectriccars.Caughtfire,atleastonecartotallydestroyed.Simpleproblem+organizationwith
vestedinterests+facilitytohidebehindlawyers=nexttozeroproblemsolvingcapacity.
tOMwrote:
FordesktopUPSuseinalaptop,youprobablywanttomaximiseyourbatteryyearsbychargingonlyto3.92v,whichcorrespondsto50%charge.
Forportableuse,youjustwanttorechargeto50%ifitgivesyouenufflife,orwhateverleveldoesgiveyouenoughlife.
Ideally,abatterymanagementprogramwouldallowseveralchargingtargets:
MAXportableruntime(ie,100%)
UPSuse(eg,asdesktopcomputerorlowusagephonedays)(3.92vor50%)
severalstepsinbetweenMAXandUPSforflexibility.
MyDell5720laptophasadesktopusagechargingschemewhichkeepsthechargebetween70&80%
MartinRosenwrote:
IhavejustboughtaniPad.Whenistheoptimumtimetochargeitup?
JohnGurskiwrote:
IjustpurchasedacellphoneandwaswonderingifIpurchasedareplacementbatterybutneverchargeditkeepingasasparewouldthisbepossibleordoLithiumIonbatteriesdegrade
withnonuse.ThephoneisanoffbrandandIamworriedwhentheoriginalbatterieslosesstoragecapacityImaynotbeabletofindareplacement.
Thanksforyourgreatinformativewebsite.
DickLawrencewrote:
ManyLiionbatterieswillholdchargeandmaintaintheirperformanceforadecadeormore.Ifyouvereadeverythingonthisforumyoushouldhaveenoughinfotokeepyourspare
batterygoodformanyyears.Iwouldsummarizeitas:keepthebatteryinacoolplace,chargeitonce,dischargeitto4050%charge,andthenleaveitaloneuntilyouneedit.DL
SteveMulliswrote:
IamusingaNikonCoolpix8700camera.Thecameracamewitha7.4v700mAhbattery.Ineedreplacementbatteries.Iseebatteriesadvertisedatanywherefrom7001500mAh.Iwas
toldthatduetothephysicalsizeofthebatteryitcannotbemanufacturedwithgreaterthan800mAh.Iunderstandhowtoprolongthebatterylife(Isupposeitwouldnthurttoputtheminto
arefrigeratororsurroundthemwithacoldblueiceback).IstheinformationIreceivedcorrect(re:mAh)orshouldIattempttopurchaseabatterywiththehighestpossiblerating?
Alexwrote:
Thestudyshowsthat10%and25%depthofdischargewasnotasgoodas50%(table2)butwouldhavelikedtoseethe75%and90%depthofdischargedataasthosewouldbemore
practicaloptions.Thatisnooneisgoingtoregularlyrechargebatteryat90%chargeoreven75%charge.Itwouldbeusefultoknowwhethertotargetarechargeat50%orwould
rechargingat25%chargeor10%chargebeevenbetterorsubstantiallyworse?
Alex
Derekwrote:
ImustsaytheGalaxyS3batterymustbeleapsandboundsaheadoftheinformationhereandonwikipedia.
Ihavedischargedmybatterybelow5%about10timesinthefirst3weeksandletitrunto0%twice.Ihavenowtakenstepstochargethebatteryatabout30%.However,thebattery
monitorproappcurrentlyestimatesitscapacityas2143mahsodoesntseemtohaveaffectedit.
Thesparebattery(officialGS3accessoriespack)hasonlylost4%powerafter1.5monthsofstoragetimestartingon100%.
WhatIdlikemoreinformationaboutistable3becauseIdislikewhatisbeingsaidthereandthenumberslooksuspiciousrelativetothewords.Surelythebatterydoesnotlose20%ofits
maximumcapacitypermanentlyafter3monthsifitissittingat100%and25degrees?ImeanifthespareGS3batteryonlylost4%temporarily(ie.canberecoveredviacharging),surely
ithasnotlost15%permanentlyinjust1.5months.
Ifthisstatementwastruethensparebatteriescanonlyeverhave40%oftheoriginalmaximumcapacityifstoredat100%forayear.
Alvinwrote:
38/55
29.04.2016
To:WaltBorntrager
Yourstatementaboutlithiumionmemoryhasbeenbackedupbysomeresearch.
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
HerewereportamemoryeffectinLiFePO4oneofthematerialsusedforthepositiveelectrodeinLiionbatteriesthatappearsalreadyafteronlyonecycleofpartialchargeand
discharge
Itdoesntsayitsruined,butitremembersapartialcharge.afteronecycle.
Drewwrote:
IhaveseenthatmostLiionarechargedto3.7V.Ihaveanapplicationwhichrequires3.94V.Wouldanybodysupplymeabatteryandchargerchargedto3.9V4V?
FredJohnstonwrote:
Irecentlypurchased6LiIonbatteriesforour2SamsungGalaxyNote2Phablets,andthebatteriesonlyget5075%ofwhattheOEM3100mAhbatteriesthatcamewiththephone,yet
theyratetheirbatteriesat3500mAh.Icomplained,andtheytoldmetofullychargeanddischarge56timesasthiswouldimprovethecapacity.Thiswilltakemealongtimetocycle
throughallofmybatteriesinthisfashion.AretheyBSingmeorcanthisbetrue???
Also,ifpossibilityofbeingtrue(fromwhatImreadinghere,thatshouldnotbethecase)isthereagoodwaytodischargethemfaster(egrigupsomethingwitharesistorsoIdontneedto
runmyphonethroughalloftheseexercises??
johnhwrote:
TherearesomefreeApsyoucangetwhichwilldischargethebatteriesforyou,soIwouldrecommenddoingthatinsteadofthesciencelabversionalthoughyoucancertainlyconnect
themtoaresistoranddischargemanually.
Myownopinionisthatwhoeversoldyoutheseisblowingsmoketostallyouandpreventyoufromaskingforarefund.Ihaveheardmixedopinionsbothhereandotherplacesaboutthe
validityofexercisingalithiumbattery,butthetechniquesuggestedtoyousoundsmorelikeaNiCadstrategytome.Icantfindthelinkrightnow,butthereisaguywhohasaprettygood
blogdedicatedtoreviewingthevariousreplacementbatteriesoutthere.Maybeyoucandoasearchandlocateit.Hehasfoundthatmany,manyofthemarelyingabouttheactual
capacityofthecells.Sowhatyouhavemaybeadecentqualitybattery,butitdoesnothavetheclaimedcapacity.
FredJohnstonwrote:
ThanksJohnsortofwhatImthinkingtoo(blowingsmokeanddelaytactic).Idohave,andhaveused,afastdischarger,buttheychewupthephoneandstillmakeitunavailablefor
hours,andreallyheatitupsoImlookingforakinderway(asmypreviousGalaxyS2diedandIthinkpartmaybetotryingthisinthepasttomanybatteries)...itisaLOTharderon
thephonethanthebatteries!Ifyouhappentobeabletolocatethatblog,whatwouldbehelpful(butonlyifeasyforyoutofind)...manythanks!...goodsite,thisone.
johnhwrote:
Fred
Ithinkthisisthesite:http://www.batteryreview.info/Ipurchased2oftheGorillaGadgetshighcapacityfortheGalaxyS3.Ihatedrunningfromchargertocharger.NowIhaveoneinthe
phone,whichaveragesabout3dayswithmyusage,andIcarrytheotherchargedoneandsimplychangeout.Idonteverusethechargerthatconnectstothephonejustacubestyle
chargerthatplugsintothewallleaveitovernight,andthentakeitwithme.Ihaveconcludedthatthewholeideaofobtainingmaximumlifeandoutputisnotasrelevantasreliabilityand
consistencyrealisticallynobodykeepsdevicesthatlonganymore.IprobablythrowawaydevicesthathavebetterbatteriesinthemthanwhatIwasgettingbrandnew10yearsago.
Ilovethissite,Iwishtherewasamoreactivediscussionforum.Therearealotofsmartpeoplewhovisithere.
Rupeshwrote:
IhaveaquestionIseelotofexpertshere,Iwouldbethankfullifsomeonecananswerthisquestion.
IamusingaMobileDeviceSonyXperiaTipoinsidetheBusandithastobekeptpermanentlychargedasweareusingitsBluetoothcapability.
Willtherebeanysafetyproblemrelatedtothisuse,Iwouldbeusingit24x7andthemobilewouldalwaysbeconnectedtothecharger.
Pleaseassistwithyourvaluablefeedback/comments/suggestion
Rupesh
Vaibwrote:
Iwentthroughthisarticleitstrue.beinganelectronicsEngineer.itiswellknownthatcharginganddischargingarePropertiesofabattery.butIhadexperiencedIusedmylaptophp
mostlyonAC.Istillevenafter50monthsmgetting35minutesbatterybackup.MyColleaguEsusetheirlaptoponcharginganddisparagingprocesstheirbatteriesdiesinjustaround
30monthssosprefertouseitonacbutmustbeawareofheatingphenomena.ItireditonmySamsungsmartphonetooitisgivingbacksamewhenIbuyedit1yearago...sonothing
harmonusingyourlibatteryuntilitheatsup..thanksforthissuperbanalysis...
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MartinRosenwrote:
IhaverecentlyboughtaniPad.Iwouldlikesomeonetotellmehowtokeepitinoptimumperformance,inparticularthebattery.
Thanks.
Rahulwrote:
Istilldontunderstandwhyanyofthepeopleabovestillhavntunderstoodwhattheauthormeansbeacycle.IfDODis10%(100%to90%)itconstituteonly0.1cycleandnot1fullcycle.
Soonlybydoingthat10timeswillmakeacycle.Sototalenergyproducedduringthebatteryslifetimewillbe100timescomparedto100%DOD.Ihopeatleastsomeofyouareableto
understandthisnow.
johnhwrote:
Fromapureengineeringperspective,yourpointistaken.However,manyofthepeoplehereareseekingpracticalwaystoextendthelifeoftheirbatteries.Theextremeexampleisif
youneverdischargethebattery,itshouldlastforever.Notonlyisthisuntrue,italsocompletelydefeatsthepurposeofhavingaportabledeviceinthefirstplace.Ibelievethe
misunderstandingmaylieinthedefinitionofacycleeventheauthorpointsoutthatthereisdisagreementamongexperts.Howmanyofushavehadtheexperienceoftakingcareofa
batterybykeepingitconstantlychargedonlytodiscoverthecapacityofthebatteryhasdiminishedrapidlyanyway?IthinkthereareotherfactorsthatmayoverridethebasicsofDOD
andtotalnumberofcycles.Inoneofthesearticlestheauthorpointsoutthattheworstthingyoucandotoyourbatteryistouseitwhileyouarecharging,yetthatiswhatmostofusare
constantlydoingwithacellphoneItgetslowoncharge,andyoustillneedtouseit,soyouplugitinandcontinueyourconversation.Theauthorsuggeststhatthisinducesmanytiny
cyclesofcharge/discharge,inturncreatinglotsofheat,whichmightaccountfortheshortenedbatterylifeovertime.
Johnwrote:
MySamsungNC10netbookwhennewranonbatteryfor4hoursand20minutes.Afterthreeandahalfyearsitstillgave3hoursand30minutesonbattery.Hardlyeverusedon
charger.TheBatteryBarappshowed28%wearafteraround1500chargecycles.Isthisbatteryexceptional?
Marcwrote:
Thisarticlesais:Environmentalconditions,andnotcyclingalone,areakeyingredienttolongevity,andtheworstsituationiskeepingafullychargedbatteryatelevatedtemperatures.This
isthecasewhenrunningalaptopoffthepowergrid.Undertheseconditions,abatterywilltypicallylastforabouttwoyears,whethercycledornot.
Butwhatsworse,runningyourlaptopofthepowergrid(thushavingafullychargedbettery)orstopcharingwhenitsat80%,drainitto3040%andchargeagain?
Imaskingbecauseinwhenyourunitofthegrid,thebatterybecomeswarmwhilstbeingfull.Whennotrunningofthepowergrid,yourecausinganothercycle,anditonlyhasalimited
amountofcycles.Whatstheleastbadformybattery?
hasanatwrote:
informativesite.Ilikethis.
Sachinwrote:
Iboughtatabwithlithiumpolymerbatteryonepartofthearticlestatedchargingittolowervoltagewillextendbatterylife..isitgoodtochargeat75%or80%Icancompromisewith
batteryruntimebutcannotwithitslifespan..
Ihavebatteryvehicletooandanysuggestionsareappreciated..
highkswrote:
VerygoodtoknowthatkeepingLiIonbatteriesatfullchargeisactuallynotagoodidea.Ialwaysthought,keepthemallasfullaspossibletostoragebutnowIknowIdrathernotdothat
anymore.
IalsodidntknowthathighertemperaturesarethatbadforLiIonbatteriesandIalwayswonderedwhynotebookbatteriesdierelativelyquicklycoomparedtootherbatteries,likein
camcorders.
Itreallyisashamethatnonotebookmanufacturerhasa50%chargeoption.Itwouldstillbegoodenoughtouseasaupsincaseofapoweroutage,butthebatterycouldlastfor5years
orevenmore.Butwhenyoulookatthepricesfororiginalsparebatteries,Iguessthatiswhytheywontdoit.Rathermakesomedoughonsparebatterieseverytwoyears
DrJackwrote:
Amodestgenius.
AbhishekGuptawrote:
40/55
29.04.2016
NiceTips!Look,youmustDimyourscreenMostlaptopscomewiththeabilitytodimyourlaptopscreen.SomeevencomewithwaystomodifyCPUandcoolingperformance.Cutthem
downtothelowestlevelyoucantoleratetosqueezeoutsomeextrabatteryjuice.http://www.stensly.com/2013/12/howtoextendbatterylifeofyourlaptop.html
Nirajwrote:
IhaveaASUSlaptopanditsadvertisedbatterybackuptimeis~34hours.HoweverIhavegotmorethan9hoursofbatterybackup.NoIamnotkidding.ThiswaswhenIusedmy
laptopsomewhatsparinglyanddidthisonpurposetofindoutthemaximumbatterybackup.
Mysettings
1.Displayisalways0,thelowestbrightnesspossible.Thebackgroundisfullblack,screensaverisfullblack,browserbackgroundisfullblack.Ingeneralineverysoftwareifitispossible
tohavetotalpitchblackbackgroundIgoforit.Actuallyitlooksverysleekandyoumaynotrecognizeitisthesameasyourusualsoftwares.Idoitprimarilyyosavemyeyes[ohyes,i
lovemyeyesmorethattheenvironment]butitalsoprolongsbatterylife.
2.whenrunningonbattery,myprocessorisunderclockedto60%.
3.mylaptopissettoswitchthedisplayoffafter1minute.thelaptopitselfneversleepsorhibernates.idontliketowaitformymachinetoswitchonifiresumemywork.theHDDisputto
sleepafter20minutesofinactivity.
4.mylaptopisNEVERswitchedoff.thisoneisabout6monthsoldandIhaveswitcheditoffformorethananhouronly34times.MoreoveritispermanentlyconnectedtotheACpower.
sofarmylaptophasrunonbattery(formorethanacoupleofhours)onlytwiceinthelastsixmonths.
theresultisthatmybatteryisalmostasgoodasnew.anybatteryshowsstrengthdecayonlyafterabout100dischargecycles.minehasbeentoonly(maximum)fivedischargecycles
andIintendtokeepitthatway.nowonderIgetsuchalongbackup.
Brunowrote:
IhaveanewAsuss400ultrabook.Ithasabuiltinbatterysoremovalisnotanoption.Ihavereadthatpartialdischargesarethebestforlongevityofthebattery.SomyquestionisdoI
usethelaptoponbatterytillitdropstoabout70%batterylifeandthenpluginandtopitup.DoIusethismethodunlessIneedtobeawayfromacpower.?Iwanttodothebestforthe
battery.Thanks
JamesJohnsonwrote:
Yes,partialdischargeisbetterthanfulldischarge,butalsopartialcharge(meaningnotfullychargingthebattery)isbetterthanfullcharge.Keepingthebatteryalwaysatfullchargeand
especiallypluggedonachargerforlongtimewillshortenitslife.http://j.gs/3HYu
JasonSeibelwrote:
Formynewlaptop,Iwanttomaximizeitsbatterycapacitysothatwhenihaveabigtrip,icanmakethemostoutofafullcharge.Basedonthisarticleiamwonderingwhichofthesetwo
methodswouldworkbest(unlessiamwrongeitherway).
1.Ikeepbatterybetween40and70percentchargeallthetime.MyreasoningisthatIwanttokeepthevoltagepercelllowbynotchargingittoohigh,andIwanttomakethedepthof
dischargeaslowaspossiblesinceiwillbeusingitathomeandwillalwayshaveachargeravailable.
2.Keepbatterybetween20and50percent.samelogic,butIthinkkeepingthevoltageevenlowerbynotchargingmylaptopabove50percentwillalsohelpimprovebatterylife.
Iamalsowonderingifevendoingacyclebetween20and80percentchargewouldbesignificantenoughtoincreasebatterylife.IhaveanAcerV7482PG6629
DavidSmithwrote:
Greatarticleandalotofgoodinfointhediscussion.
WhileIknownexttonothingcomparedtoalothereIjusthadtojumpinwthmythoughts.
Whenyouconsiderthecostversusthelifetimeofthesepackstheyarenotthatexpensive,babythemandgetsay12monthsagainstusingthemwithoutworryingaboutlongevity,butnot
abusingthem,andgetting9months,sayyoupay$60forthebattery,thats$5amonthbabyingagainst$6.66amonthwithoutworrying,isallthefussworth$1.66amonth?
Iuse166503000mahbatteriesinhighpoweredmoddedledflashlights,theyarealwaysfullychargedwhennotinuse,oftenhave3Aor4Aloadonthem,nevertakenbelow2.8valthough
sometimestakento3v,thelightsgethot,thebatterycompartmentsometimesgettingto50corso,isthisabuse,youbet,willitshortentherelifespan,yes,butIampreparedtoputupwith
ittofollowthishobby,whatIamgettingatissometimesyoujusthavetodowhatyouhavetodo,andifthatmeansdischargingthebatteriesuntilyoulaptoptellsyoutheyareflat,thenjust
acceptyouhaveshortenedthelifeofthebatteryatinylittlebitandmoveon.
Iaminnowayputtingdownanyonehere,treatthemniceandtheylastlonger,ofspecialinteresttomyselfwasnotleavingalaptoppackoutofthelaptopformorethanaboutamonth,my
wifehastwopacksandshejustleavesonepackoutfullychargeduntilsheneedsit,notnowshewont
CheersDavid
riotwrote:
hi
shouldiremovemyhp625batterywhilegamingorwatchingmovies,theindicatorsaysnotchargingwhenthebatteryreachesitsfullconditionandiheardthatifyouremovebatteryitwill
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29.04.2016
causedamagetolaptopwhileinseriusactionsthatneedsomeextrapowerandactuallythebatterycanworkasanbackuppowertosavehardwares
mehdiwrote:
Hi,Ipurchasedalaptopcomputerwithembeddedbattery(thebatterycantberemoved)andImwonderingifIneedtocalibratethebatteryornot?Thesellertoldmethatitisneededand
Ihavetodischargeandchargeit3timesinordertobecalibrated(Idoitoncetillnow).
Anotherissue:doyourecommendkeepingthebatterychargein40%oritsnotnecessary?
Mylaptopcomputerwillturnoffby7%ofbatterycharge(myexperienceoffirstdischarge).Iusemylaptopmostofthetimeathome.Whichstrategybestmaintainmybatteryhealth?
Mylaptopname:SonyVAIOFit15SVF15A18CX
BatteryType:StandardLithiumIonBattery(VGPBPS343650mAh)
BatteryLife:Upto3hoursand45minutes10
Thanks.
Riotwrote:
HiMehdy
Asthebatterycannotberemovedneverletitgobelow80%orgradualyitwillgetold,youuseitathomeright?sowhynotpluggedinwhileinhome
Everyoneknowsthatbatterykillersarechargeanddischargeplusheat
livehappyhomie
Mehdiwrote:
ThankYouforresponding.AsIunderstandtheheatproducedbykeepingthebatteryinfullchargeconditionislessharmfulforbatteryhealththancharginganddischargingoftheliion
batteryeachtime?
Riotwrote:
Myhp625batterynevergatherheatbecauseitisfullchargedandconectedtothewallsocket,donotplacethemachineoncarpet,clothesorsuchstuffthatcoverfanholes.
offcoursedischargingagesthebattery
Neilwrote:
greatresource,thanksforalltheinfo
haveaquickquestion,ifanygurushaveanopinionitwouldbegreatlyappreciated
justgotaLevonoZ710ideapadanditcamewithEnergyManagersoftwarethathasaconservationmode.fromwhatthesoftwaresays,itisintendedtobeusedifyourenotgoingtobe
usingthelaptopforaweekorlonger,tokeepthebatteryatastateofchargeof55%60%toavoidbatterylifereductionduetolongperiodsoffullchargestate.
wheniturnitonandusethelaptop,thebatterychargesto:60%available(pluggedin,notcharging)
somyquestionis,wouldthisnotbethebestwaytousemylaptopwhileathomeandACisavailable(95%ofthetime),andturnconservationmodeoffandfullychargethelaptopwhen
ImactuallytakingitsomewhereACisnotavailable?
Riotwrote:
Youdoingofficeworkorwatchingmoviessurfingnet,betterdetachthebatterybutifyoudoinggamesorotherheavygrahicdutiesattachthebattandturnofallconservativemodesand
letthemachineflows..
YoungjaeChowrote:
Hi.
IwonderDOD30%voltage.
About4.2Vfullchargedvoltagebattery,3.9VisDOD30%,right?
Edwardwrote:
DearYoungjaeCho,differentLithiumbatteryfromdifferentcompanyhavedifferentperformance..weneedtestthedischargecurvetogettheanswer
moredetailspleasecontactzzrm316@163.com
OnMay9,2014at3:06pm
Brianwrote:
Itsoudsasifthebestbetistouseanoldbatterythatholds5070%chargeforhomeuse,whenpluggedintothemains.Thiswillprotectyoufrompoweroutagesetc,Thenputinyour
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29.04.2016
nicenew100%chargeablebatterywhentravellingandyouneedtobeworkingumplugged.
bradwrote:
WhatisthesourceforTable2?
Migishawrote:
gottasay,
best.lesson.ever!
Manyhappyreturnstoyoufromthe256
yuriprovasewrote:
Lookingfortablenumber3,canIsaythatthebestwaytouseyourbatteriesisdischargethemnormally(80/85%)andthenchargethembackjustafewhoursbeforeusingthemagain?
KhayyamAkhtarwrote:
Ihaveasmartphonewithliionbattery.ItsSonyXperiaSPandithasbuiltinbattery.Firstitwasgreatbutthenbecauseofthatuselessbatterydoctortaskkillingapp,onenightIleftmy
mobilewith22%chargeleftandtomorrowwhenIwokeup,itwas0%.
SincethenIfeellikemymobilebatteryisnotgood.Myhabitistochargemobilewhenitisbelow15%andIneverplugitoutuntilits100%.Lastnightat4amIleftitonstandbywith72%
andtodayinthemorningitwasbelow58%.Therewasonlyonemessageandthenotificationlightwasturnedoffinthesettings.
WhatshouldIdo?
KhayyamAkhtarwrote:
Anotherthingisthatitdrainspowermostlyinstandby.WhenIlistentowalkman,watchvideosorworkonwifi,itworkslikebeforeandonlylittlechargeisusedmostly2%7%isused.
Edwardwrote:
DearKhayyam,howlongdoyoukeepthissmartphone??twoyearsorthreeyears?pleaseemailtomezzrm316@163.comEdwardrechargeableboy
OscarOrmondwrote:
Khayyam
Step1:Checkifthethingisproperlypluggedinandcheckifthepowerisactuallyon.
MohamedSohebwrote:
whatshouldbetheamount(percentage)ofcharging/dischargingthebatterytoincreaseitslife.
Edwardwrote:
95%charging/dischargethebatterycanincreaseitslife
MohamedSohebwrote:
thanksEdward,
andwhatshouldbetheminimumamounttowhichwearesupposetodrainbatterytoprolongitslife
Edwardwrote:
DearMohamed,nominimumamountrequirement,forexample,10%dischargeisnotequaltoonefulldischarge,and10times10%dischargeisequaltoonefulldischarge.
pleaseemailtomezzrm316@163.comfordetailinformationEdward
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29.04.2016
dialuswrote:
Itisgoodpostandinformativepost.Thankyou.
Smurlinwrote:
Reallygreatinfointhisarticlemuchappreciated.
Shunwrote:
Fascinating,theunderlyingprincipleIfoundfromreadingthisarticleisdonotgototheextremesandstaybalanced,reducestress,prolongthelifeandavoidhightemperature.Applicable
tomanyotheraspectsoflife.
MarkPauloYanwrote:
Ivereadthearticlemostlyandsearchedthepageforusb,forrelatedinfo.Ididnot,howeverreadallthecomments,whicharequitealot.
NowmyconcernisthattomyundertandingLiionbatterieschargewellinthe3.9to4.2Voltzrange,whilstusbportshavea5Vrating,whichiswayhigherthantherecomended4.2V.
Doesnewer/current(2014)deviceshavevoltagesregulatingcircuits?
OrdoescurrentLiionbatteriesoperateon5V?
Orarewemanglingourbatteriesusingcurrentcommonchargingways?
JackGwrote:
LookingforsomeclarityregardingthetestsonDepthofDischarge(DoD).Isthevoltagelevel0.0Vat0%DoD?Ifso,perhapsamorerealistictestwouldbedischargingtoatypical
devicescutoffvoltage(say,2.5V).
Edwardwrote:
markpauloyantheoutputvoltagefromUSBis5.0V,andthelithiumionmaxvoltageis4.2V,thisbecausethereisoverchargecircuitinthelithiumionbatterytopreventfromovering
4.2V.tochargethebattery,theoutputvoltagemusthigherthanthebatterymaxvoltage.isthatclear
KenelmUlricDogciowrote:
Okay,soimtryingifsomeonecananswermyquestion(byreadingthecommentsfromabove.yesfrom2010comments)andstilliwasnotabletogetanyanswer.
Myquestionis.Whatistheidealchargingpercentageformy2110mAhLiPolybattery(Fromasmartphone,nondetachable)Isitdischaringto25%andchargingto90%?Or10%to
80%/90%?Thankyouinadvancedforanswering.
Edwardwrote:
DearKenelmUlricDogcio,Iadvisethebetterwayis10%90%
KenelmUlricDogciowrote:
Thankyouforansweringedward.Also,iveobservedthateverytimeichargeiuseDUBatteryAPPandwhenitchargesforlike40minsorso,thevoltageimseeingisabove4.20.Andits
advisabletohavelowerthan4.20right?Whatshouldiaboutit?Oristheappaccurate?
Richwrote:
IjustboughtaniPodclassicafterthediscontinuation,andIalreadyhaveaworkingone,soIjustwanttostorethisoneuntilitsneeded.
Howlongisitoktojustleaveitinthebox?Ireadoncethatyourenotsupposedtoletabatterysitwithnochargeinit,andthedateontheiPodboxsays2009,meaningthisthingalmost
definitelyhasnochargeright?ShouldIstartitonchargecyclesorjustleaveitinthebox?
Edwardwrote:
DearRich,IftheIpodbatteryisnotusedforalongperiod,itshouldbereplenishchargingonetimeforeverysixmonth.zzrm316@163.com
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Feanorwrote:
Iassumethatthenumberofchargecyclesinthetableabovearecompletechargedischargecycles?
So,fora10%depthofdischarge,thebatteryshouldlastfor4700FULLrechargecyclesnot4700rechargecyclesofjust10%?
Edwardwrote:
DearFeanor,fullchargeanddischargecyclescannotto4700cycles
Lucawrote:
Isitworseforalithiumpolymerbattery(phoneorlaptop)tobechargedwhilethedeviceison?
Iwouldthinkyes,butIamnotsure.
QuantumPCSupportwrote:
Thesetypeofpostsareforever.Batterysavingtricksarealwayswelcome.Weoftenignorebasicthingsandwehavetorepentforthose.Followthevideohttp://vimeo.com/65740042
Feanorwrote:
HiEdwardIdontunderstandyourresponse.ImnotsureIwasclearmyselfthough.
Myquestionis,whetherthe4700figuremeansa)4700chargecyclesfrom90%to100%,orb)whetheritmeans1chargecycle=10cyclesfrom90%to100%,inwhichcasethebattery
wouldlast47000chargecyclesfrom90%to100%.
Bothseemunlikelytomea)wouldprovidenoincreaseinbatterycyclelife,whichgoesagainstwhatsbeensaid,whileb)seemsexcessivebutmeetsthedefinitiongivenofonecharge
cyclebeing0100%.
Feanorwrote:
Lucanoyourebettertousethedevicewhileitsbeingcharged,asthisreducesbatteryuseandwear.Withonecaveatthoughyoushouldntleavethedeviceonchargeallthetime
normaluseforaportabledeviceistodisconnectitforatleastafewhoursadaywhenyoumoveitaround,soIgenerallysticktothat.Justuseitnormally,butavoidexcesschargingor
excessuse(unlessyourusagepatternrequiresexcessuse,thenuseititsatool,afterall!).
Edwardwrote:
Feanor,the4700figuremeansa)4700chargecyclesfrom90%to100%,ifyouchargefrom90%to100%andthendischargefrom100%to90%youcanuse4700cycles..yestheano
increasethetotaldischargetimeintheory,butinfact,youcanhardtocontrolthe0%to100%chargeanddischarge,dischargeto0%maybemeansoverdischarge.anyway,itisa
battery,donottooworryaboutthecyclelife.justuseit
Lucawrote:
ThanksFeanor&Edwad,
Iamreallygladtolearnsomuchhere!
Feanorwrote:
ThanksEdward.Idontthinkthatthearticleisclearonthispointthough.Cycleisatonepoint(ifnothere,thenelsewhere)definedas0100%,andthearticlegoesonabouthowreducing
depthofdischarge(DoD)willincreasecyclecount.ButifwerecountingacycleaschargingfromanyDoDto100%thenitachievesnothingandallthediscussionaboutDoDus
pointless.
Mostconsumersdontneedtoworryaboutoverdischargeastheequipment(mobilephone,laptop,etc)willpreventthatunlesstheystoretheirbatteriesforweeksormonthsat0%.
alimufitcetingulwrote:
compleconditionchambertestsolarbattery
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AnupChapainwrote:
Whyshouldweusersbotheronthesedetails??Dontyouthinkitswisestmovetoimplementtheoptimumcutoffcircuitinthelaptopitselfbythemanufacturersinordertomaximizethe
batterylife?
pankajwrote:
Simplequestion:
Howmuchtimebattery(2080mAH)takeforfullycharged?
charger:5.0v=550mA(50/50Hz0.2A)
Mortezawrote:
Pankaj,
Simpleanswer:2hr
akashwrote:
Thispieceofinformationhelpedmealot.Iusedtochargemytabletat7v/cellbutnowIknowthatIshouldchargeItatonly4.20v/cell.Thanksalot.
VaughnHartsellwrote:
ImstillconfusedastowhenandhowmuchtochargemybatteryinmyMacBookPro.Istherenosimpleanswer?
(1)Chargeit4hourseveryday(2)onlychargeitwhenitdiesandstopsfunctioning.
(3)Keepthechargeronallthetime.(4)Neverworryaboutit.(5)Useitpluggedinuntilthebatterydies!(6)SeewhyImstillconfused.
bilalorignalwrote:
iamusingmylaptopwithliionbattery6cellforalmost3yearsanditsbatterypowerisasgoodasnewwhatidoisalwayspluginmylaptopintrustworthypowersourcelikeUPS(urgent
powersupply)andkeepusingitonitandtakeoutmybatteryhenceiamsavingmybatterychargecyclesthatthesecret
JCwrote:
Ihavea4400mAhLiIonlaptopbatteryfromBatteriesPlus.Itismodel:RAYCL2809B,itismadebyRayovac.
ThisbatteryworkswellbutonlyaslongasIdonotallowittofullydischarge.Ifitfullydischarges,thenthechargerisnotabletorechargethebattery.Ihavetestedthechargerwithmy
friendsbattery(hehasthesamelaptopbutwiththeoriginalbattery)anditworksjustfine.TheguysatBatteriesPlusalsotestedthechargerandsaiditwasfine.
Anyway,wheneverthebatteryfullydischarges,IhavetotakethebatterybacktoBatteriesPlusandtheyhookituptoamachineforlike8hoursinordertoreviveit.
Anyoneknowwhythishappenstothebattery?ItisquiteannoyingthatIhavetokeepgoingbacktothestoretogetthisrayovacbatteryrevived.
Anyonehaveamethodtorevivethebatteryathome?
Raphaelwrote:
iagree!whereistheshortsimpleanswer?whativeunderstoodisthisandimnotevensureitscorrect.
youbuyanewlaptopafterturningondischargeto10%,rechargefullyto100%
formthereondischargetonofurtherthen40%,rechargenofurtherthan80%
onceamonthdischargeto10%andthenrechargeto100%.repeatcycle!
Couldanyonepleaseconfirmthis?Greatinfoandallbutjeeeez!cantherenotbeamoreconciseversionforpeoplethatactuallywanttoplaywiththeirnewtoy,like,todaywithoutthe
stressofdamagingit?
RichardColemanwrote:
Question:Intable2,thecyclesandDoDrelationshipseemtoimplythat50%dischargeisideal.Reasoningisthatfore.g.,50%DoD,youmustchargetwiceasmanytimesas100%,
thereforetomakethetwooperatingschemescomparable,youmustdividetheapparentcyclelifebytwo,i.e.,youreallygottheequivalentnumberof675fullcycles.Ifyouadjustthedata
inthisway,thegraphseemstopeakatabout50%(Ifita2ndorderpolynomialtotheadjustedcycles.Imstillreadingthisarticle...sotheremaybesomethingImissed.
Gladtodiscuss,pleaseemailmewithcontactinformationifpossible.IhaveanMSinOperationsResearchandaBSinNavalEngineering,soImnotjustflailinghere...butImaybe
wrong.
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ikennawrote:
Isthereanystandaloneappliancethatcanbeusedtoprotectabatteryfromexceedinga50%DoDforgelbatteries?
RobChandlerwrote:
IwasabouttopostmyreasoningthatbasedonTable2itwouldappearthatchargingat50%DoDisthesweetspot.ThenIsawthatRichardColemanhadreachedasimilarconclusion.
WhatIfoundinterestingisthatfrequentrechargingwhenDoDisat10%appearstobealmostasbadaswaitinguntilthebatteryisfullydischarged.
Thanks
peterwrote:
Thereissentence:
Theshorterthedischarge(lowDoD),thelongerthebatterywilllast.
Intable2theysaidif10%DoDthen3750cycles.Weknowthatonecycleinthiscaseis10x10DoD.
Maybeweshouldchargebatterymoreoftenthan50%DoD.
PeterBailliewrote:
IwonderingifanyonecouldrecommendwhereyoucouldbuyaBatteryManagementSystem(BMS)fora36velectricbikebatterywhichcanbepluggedintothebatteryfordiagnosticsto
readrechargecycles,kmsdistancesetc.YourarticleanddiscussionsonDoDisinteresting,toworkoutthenumberofDoDvskmstravelledandtotryandworkoutthelifecycle
capacityleftonabatteryandthekmsremainingtoberun.ThanksPeterBaillie
JohnFetterwrote:
PeterTherearesomanyvariablesinbatteriesandbatteryusage,itisimpossibletoachievewithanyreasonabledegreeofaccuracy,whatyousayyouwanttodo.Havingsaidthat,
therearesuchsystemsonthemarket,becausedemand,nottechnology,drivesthesekindsofthings.
Batterypurchaserslookforthelowestpossibleprice.Hencebatterymanufacturersareobligedtomanufacturetothelowestacceptablestandards.Batteriesareagrudgebuy.Thereis
nothingthatcanbemadethatcannotbemadebyanothermorecheaply.Thishasbeenthedrivingforceoverthelast40yearsinanindustrythatis130yearsold.Theonlyplaceyou
canfindqualityisonthesalesbrochures.Hencesomebatterieswilllasteightyears,somewilllastfouryears,somewilllasttwoyears.
PeterBailliewrote:
John,thanksforthefeedback,appreciated.Wouldyouhaveanyrecommendationonwheretobuyone?Orevenashopthatdealsinthiskindofthing?Peter
peterwrote:
ithinkedwardiswrong:1090%charging/dischargingisnotthebestwaytoprolongbatterylife.
Alsoithinkfeanoriswrong:usingdevicewhilechargingisnotgoodforbatterylifecozbatteryismakingalotofmicrocyclesandwearingbattery.
Alicewrote:
peter,Why?Withoutanyexplanationyourcommentsareworthless.
OnMay1,2015at5:34am
peterwrote:
Itisobviouslike1+1,idontwannttobesmartassbutplease,readthisarticle(s),seethetables
bestischarging@50%DoD
bestischargingwhiledeviceisturnedOff
Adeviceshouldbeturnedoffwhilecharging.Thisallowsthebatterytoreachthethresholdvoltageunhinderedandreachalowsaturationcurrentwhenfull.Aparasiticloadconfuses
thecharger.
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
OnMay1,2015at7:37am
Alicewrote:
peter,Thereasonwhymostpeoplepaygoodmoneyistousewhatyoudisparaginglycalltheparasiticload,asandwhentheywant.Lookma,mybatterylastedtenyears.Iachieved
thisbyhardlyeverusingthecomputer.Itisaseasyas1+1forachargertoreadthebattery,lookafterthebattery,andatthesametimedeliverpowerseparatelytotherestofthe
system.
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29.04.2016
peterwrote:
informationandadviceaboutturningofdevicewhilechargingisfromthissite.Andwearediscussingitverypreciselywhatarethefactsfromtheoryandhowisitinpractise.
also,pleasegiveusinfoandanyvalidlinkaboutdeliveringpowerseparatelytotherestofthesystemwhilechargingliionbattery.
thanx
OnMay1,2015at4:29pm
Alicewrote:
peter,Youaccusedtwopeopleofbeingwrong.Itiseasytodraginformationfromasource.Anyonecandoit.Meansnothing.Opinionsvary.Canyouexplainwhythesetwopeopleare
wrong?
peterwrote:
Everythingisinmypost,thereisnoneedtorepeatitagain.
Butyoudidntexplaindeliveringpowerseparately..Explain?Link?Pdf?
Pleasebeconstructiveasothersare.
OnMay2,2015at5:34am
ShelaghDelvesBroughtonwrote:
Iapologizeifthishasbeenaskedoransweredbutifoneusingalaptop,asadesktopshouldtakeoutthebattery,storeitsafelybutuseitonceevery2weeksorso,whatdoyoudoifthe
laptopwontallowyoutotakeoutthebatteryandyouuseitasadesktop?
T.I.A.
OnMay2,2015at5:53am
Alicewrote:
peter,Yousaidtheywerewrong,gaveanopinion,didnotexplain,werenotconstructive.Lithiumion,likeallbatteriesshouldbechargedatconstantcurrent,uptoasuitablepreset
voltage.Impossiblewithcomputerdirectlyinparallelwithbattery,computerdrawingvariablecurrent.Simplesolution,incommonusebycircuitdesignerswhounderstandbatteries.Feed
computerdirectlyandfeedbatteryviasimplecurrentsensor.Thecurrentsensoroutputiscomparedtoareferencevalue.Thedifferencebetweenthetwoisusedtocorrectanyerrorin
thecurrentandcanmaintainanexactchargingcurrentvalue.Theendofchargevoltagecanbepresettooptimizedvaluesthatwillterminatechargingadesiredstateofcharge.
peterwrote:
ok,nowyouaretalking.thanxforinformations,meansalottocommunity.
Needtoask:doesitapplytosmartphonesasforlaptopsyousaid?
OnMay3,2015at6:52pm
Edwardwrote:
IthinkAliceisright,Shemustbetheprofessionalbatteryexpertorelectronicexpert!!
Tywrote:
Ivereadthisarticleandothersandhavescannedallcommentshereandreadmany.ButIstillhaventfoundarecommendationorwhatseemstobeasimpleandobviousquestion.
maybeitsaboveandImissedit.
Heresthequestion.
MylaptopisalwaysconnectedtothepowergridexceptwhenItravel.HoweverIdomoveitbetweenmyofficeandmydeckanddontwantthehassleofshuttingdownbetweenthose
movessomybatteryremainsinmylaptopatalltimes.
Isawtherecommendationinthearticletoletitdischargeonlyto50%beforerecharging.AtleastIthinkthatswhatIread.
Myquestionsis,howoftenshouldIletitdischargeatall?Onceaday?Onceaweek?Onceamonth?
Thanksinadvanceforanyknowledgeableanswers.
Amithwrote:
Afterreadingthroughthisarticle,IwentanddidsomemeasurementsonsomeofthephonesIown.Ibasicallydidafullcharge,waitedforabout5minutes,pulledoutthebatteryand
measuredwithmymultimeter.
OnaSamsungGalaxyNote3,itseemstogouptoabout4.3V.OnaLenovoA606,Itgoestoabout4.21whileonmyoldNokia1110,itseemstostopat3.8V.
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IalsodidacomparisonofactualvoltagemeasurementsagainstthereadingsIgetfrombatteryapps.Theyreprettyclose(~+0.01V)andalsorequireacertainsettlingtime.beforethe
readingsstabilize.
Iguessitsatrendherethatmodernphonestaxthebatteryalot.So,itsnosurprisethattheylosequitealotofthecapacitywithinthefirstyearofusage.Maybethebestapproachisto
onlychargeourphonestoabout75%orsoandstop.
voyanceinternetwrote:
Yourarticleisverywellwritten,whicharemuchlessappreciatedisthatIonceagainthankyou.
MARTINwrote:
Sotheyarearguingthatifyouchargeyourbatteryatahigherlevelofdischarge,thephonewillhaveahighercyclelife.
WELLDUH.ifyoudividethe10%DODby10youactuallyonlyget470totalcyclesoutofeach100%thatitdrained.Whichitactuallybelowthemaximumsuggestedchargecyclesfor
chargingat100%DOD.
Nowifyoulookatthe50%DODcyclesandcalculatethecycleitgetsper100%thenyouwillget750max.Soisitsuggestingwechargeourphonesat50%?LOLwtfisthisnonsense
itmayreducethepossbiilitytotempertureweartothebatteryhowever,chargingforshorterperiodoftimes
Alicewrote:
MARTIN,Canyouexplainhowonemightchargeatahigherlevelofdischarge?Youprobablydontwanttoacknowledgethatpeoplewithlessknowledgecompensatebymakingmore
rudenoise.
TTMartin(notMARTIN)wrote:
@Alice
ReferringtoTable2
Assuminga10%DoDgivesyou1unitofuseandyoucanrechargeit4700timesyouvegotten4700unitsofuseoutofthebattery.
Nowifyouhavea25%DoDyouget2.5unitsofuseperrecharge.Youcanrechargeit2500timesyouvenowgotten6250unitsofusefromthebattery.
Ifyouhavea50%DoDyounowget5unitsofuseperrecharge.Youcanrechargeit1500timesyouvenowgotten7500unitsofusefromthebattery.
Ifyouhavea100%DoDyouvenowgotten10unitsofuseperrecharge.Youcanrechargeit500timesyouvenowgotten5000unitsofusefromthebattery.
InadditionkeepingthebatterytoppedoffiscontradictorytotheinformationcontainedinTable3.
Gooddatainthearticle,but,poorinterpretationofthedatabytheauthor.
IvefoundIobtainthebestlifeandlengthofusebetweenchargesbyallowingthebatterytodischargetillthedevicetellsmeitneedstoberecharged,andthenrechargingitatthattime.
Alicewrote:
MARTIN?...TheelectrochemistrythatrelatescyclingtoDoDinbatteriesisnotlinear.Theonlywaytoobtainthatinformationisbyhandsontesting.
peterwrote:
@TTMartin:
Weneedtocleawhatis1dischargecycle?
(Ans:
1dis.cycle=4x25%DoD=2x50%DoDetc..)
Amithwrote:
Ithinkyoureconfusingchargelevelswithdepthofdischarge.50%DoDjustmeansthecapacityleveltowhichyouwoulddischargeyourbatterybelowtheoriginalcapacity.
Fore.g.Sayabatteryhasacapacityof10,000mAh.Dischargingitto5,000mAh(50%charge)is50%DoD,soisdischargingfrom7,500mAh(75%charge)to2,500mAh(25%
charge).
Theauthorisntbeingcontradictory,dontfullychargeit(maybechargeto75%Charge)anddontdischargeitcompletelybeforerecharging(75%to25%charge,i.e.50%DoD).
Andywrote:
FromalltheinformationIvegatheredovertime,thisiswhatIreallyrecommend:
RemoveyourLiIonbatteryifyoudontneedportabilityorarenotdoinganythingimportantonyourdevice(ifyoudontneedbackuppowerincaseofapoweroutage).
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Thispreventsambienttemperatureandheatfromthedevicefromdegradingyourbatterymuchmuchfasterthanasitwouldbeontheshelf.Justrunthedevicedirectlyfromthecharger
ifitallows.
Ifyouwanttotakeitastepfurtherorforlongertermstorage,youcantapetheterminalofthebatterywithelectricaltape(topreventaccidentalconductionandshortcircuits)andstoreit
inasealedziplockbaginsideyourfridge(topreventmoisture).NOTYOURFREEZER.Theideaistokeepitjustabovefreezingtemperaturebutnottofreezeyourbattery.5degrees
Celsiusisagoodtemperature.
AsforchargingandtypicalusageorIfyouhaveahardtoremoveinternalbattery,trytokeepyourbatterylevelfrom30%to80%,hencechargingonly50%ofthebatteryatatime.In
otherwords,nottoolowandnottoohighbatterycapacityandnottooshortandnottoolongchargingcycles.Bydoingthis,youalsofollowthe50%DoDinthisarticlethatappearsto
statisticallygivethemosthoursofuseforaLitIonbattery.
Onasidenote,whenyoubuyanewbattery,thefirst34chargecyclesareverylikelygoingtogiveyoualowertotalcapacitythanwhatthebatteryiscapableof,butthisshouldbe
amendedafterabout10cycles.Idontrecommendfullydischargingandchargingyourbatteriesforthesefirstfewtimestoprimeyourbattery,justuseitnormallyunlessyourbattery
percentagemeterisinaccurateandneedstobecalibratedthendoafullcycle.
Andywrote:
AddingtowhatImissedabove:
Whenyouareplanningtostoreyourbatteries,chargethebatterybetween45%and65%tocompensateforgradualdischarginganddependingonhowlongyouplantostoreyour
batteriesfor.
Makesureyoutakethemoutonceinawhile(everymonth,fewmonthsorso)tochecktheystillhavechargeinthemandchargethembackuptostoragecapacityiftheyaretoolow.
Itgoeswithoutsayingthatyoudontstoreabatterywith15%orlessbatteryoryoucouldriskitgoingintosleepmodeorbeingtooweak/damagedtocharge.
Alicewrote:
Andy,Brilliantidea!Orisit?Haveyounotworkedoutthatyoursuggestionismoreorlessthesameasbuyinganexpensiveautomobile,lockingitupinthegarageandusingbusesand
trainsfortransportinstead?Much,muchlater,thereisaemergencyandyouneedthecarinahurry.Andguesswhat?Youhaveaflatbattery,flattiresandfindtheratsmadetheirnests
outofthebitsandpiecesthatusedtomakethecargo.
Andywrote:
Alice,thisisonlyrecommendedasameasureifyoudontneedportabilityorarenotdoinganythingimportantonyourdevicethatneedsabackuppowersupply.Andlikeanycarowner,
theyshouldtaketheinactivecaroutonceamonthtoensurethebatterydoesntcompletelygodead.
WithOEMlaptopbatteryreplacementpacksattimescostinganarmandalegandmanufacturercustomerservicebeingsopooringeneral,itsonlyanidealsuggestionanddoesnot
representwhatthetypicalusermustdo.Weallmakesacrificestothedetrimentofthebatteryandthatsokaybecauseitismeanttobeused.
ButIhavetoadmitattheveryleast,removingyourbatterywhilepluggedinisasmartthingtodo.Inmyexperiencewithlaptops,especiallyhighperformancealuminumorfullbodied
metalliclaptopsheatupconsiderably,andtheheatconductstothebatteryalongwithheatfromchargingcombinetoeasilyequal5060c.Anexcellentexamplewouldbethefirstfew
generationsofHPEnvylaptopsnotoriouslyknownforheatandcookingthebattery.
Underheavyusewhilepluggedinwiththebatteryfullycharged,thesebatteriestypicallydidnotlastmorethanalittleoverayearwithoutholdinganyusefulamountofchargeandmost
definitelyneededreplacingsoonafter.
Alicewrote:
Andy,Ifremovingthebatteryisthesmartthingtodo,thenperhapsawomancouldprovideanoptimumsolution.Apluginextensioncordarrangementthatwouldhavethebatteryoutof
theoppressivelyhotlaptopandatthesametimefulfillingitprimaryfunction.
(Bytheway,takingacarthatisveryinfrequentlyused,forarunonceamonthisabatterykiller.)
Tosumup,lithiumisaSERIOUSLYproblematictechnology.
Andywrote:
Youaredefinitelyrightinthisregardthatitisproblematicbutitisnotlimitedtolithium.Batteriesareaninherentlyweaktechnologythatstrugglestokeepuptothedemandsofthepower
consumptioninwakeofconstantlyevolvingtechnology.
Lithiumtechnologyisalreadyconsideredamaturebatterytechnologyandalmostatcapacityofwhatitcanbecapableofandfurtheradvancementsareslowandprogressisminimaluntil
wecanswitchtoanothertypeofbattery.
Foryourtypicalleadacidcarbattery,takinganinactivecaroutonceinawhileisactuallybeneficialforitshealthsincewhenaleadacidbatteryispartiallydischarged,leadsulfateforms.
Thissulfationcausesapermanentlossofcapacityofthebattery.Sothebatteriesshouldonlybestoredinafullychargedconditionandthechargeshouldbetoppedupfromtimetotime
bytakingthecarouttochargeitwiththealternatortocompensatefortheselfdischargeofthecells.
JohnFetterwrote:
AndyIamnotgoingtojointhisdiscussionaboutlithiumionbutIthinkImightbeabletothrowsomelightontheleadacidsituation.Aleadacidbatterythatisntreceivinganychargefora
month,andisprobablybeingdrainedslowlybytheelectronicsinthecar,willlikelyhavebeenreducedtobetween60and80%stateofcharge.Startinganenginethathasbeenstanding
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takesmoreoutofthebattery.Thealternatorvoltageregulatorwilllimitthechargingvoltagetoamaximumof14.4volts.Itisimpossibletobringa12Vleadacidbatterythathasbeen
subjectedtothisformoftreatmenttoafullstateofchargewithanormalaveragetrip.Thebatterybeginsthenextmonthofinactivityinapartialstateofcharge.Eachsuccessivemonth
willdeprivethebatteryofcharge.Afterafewmonthsofthiskindoftreatmentthebatterywillgiveuptheghost.
Therearetricklechargersonthemarketthatbeginchargingthebatteryuntilthevoltagehasrisentowellbeyond14.4andthendropthevoltagetoabout13.5andholditthere.Batteries
thusmaintainedlasteightyearsormore.
SallyGwrote:
InterestingIhaveanebikewithalithiumbattery.Aftercommutercyclingonitfor27months(yearround),itsstillasgoodaswhenIgotit(actually,bettersincegettinganewconsole
whichseemstobemoreefficientatextractingenergyfromthebattery).Ionlydischargeit5075%pertripbeforerecharging(50%insummer,75%inwintercoldweatherdoesseemto
consumemoreenergyoutofthebattery).Sofromabove,thisbatteryshouldlastagoof57yearsfarmorethanthe1yearthemanufactureswarranty!
However,IdohearofpeoplewhodontusetheirebikeshavingproblematicbatteriesfromthegetgowhichwouldmakesenseasthechargedoesdissipatewithtimeifIdontrideit
(usuallywithinamonth)soIpresumethatthatwouldbeequaltoafulldischarge.MustbesaidnothavingtricklechargeonthechargeralsodoesnthelpifIputthepluginonFridayand
dontpullitouttoMonday,Ivelost20%ofmycharge!
TomWiersmawrote:
Weareverydisappointedinthelithiumionlifeweexperiencedontwodifferentbikebatteries.Whileinitiallifeproducedarangeupto20milesonour24voltemotobikes,thatrange
degradedto1mileafter2yearsonthefirstbike,andthesecondbikeisnowat8milemaximumafter22monthsanddegradingrapidly.Thebikesarestoredindoorswithperiodic
charginginwinterandarerechargedaftereachuseinsummer.Thefactorythatmadethebatteriesisoutofbusiness,andarebuildcosts$300apiece.Wehave$1200totalinthetwo
bikesnew.ThefirstsataroundMenardstillIpurchaseditfor$400.Itshortlifeleadustobelieveshelflifewasafactor.Onthesecondbikewehadtowaitforthefactorytoproducethe
batter!Sameresults.Couldhavebeenworse.Itcouldhavebeena$35,000lithiumioncar!
Timarwrote:
Thedisputewhethertokeepthebatterypermanentlyattachedtothenotebook,therebyprovidingflexibilityandprotectionagainstpoweroutages,ortostoreithalfcharged,thereby
greatlyimprovingthebatteryslifespan,caneasilyberesolvedifonehasafreshandaworndownbattery.Isimplyleavetheoldbattery,whichisbelow10%capacitybutstillholdsmore
thansufficientpowerforfinishingsometasksandprovidinghibernationpower,permanantlyconnectedtothenotebookandkeepthenewbatterytuckedawayafterchargingitto60%.IfI
plantousemynotebookonbattery,itsufficestoconnectthebatterytothecomputerforonehourinordertochargeitto95%,butevenifIdonthavethetimetotopitup,itstillprovides
atleast50%capacityandadecentruntime.
RudyRashwrote:
DothecommentsandsuggestionsofthisarticlealsoapplytoAGM(acidglassmat)andSLA(sealedleadacid)batteriesusedinUPSs(uninterruptiblepowersupplies)orthoseusedin
powerwheelchairs?
guestwrote:
ichargemybatterywhenitis1%2%andchargeupto5%6%anduseitbecauseineed.idoitmaybe5timeseverydayformonths.itisnoproblemformenow.
corkywrote:
Ijustwantedtoknowtheshelflife,likecanIbuytwobatteries,useone,savetheother?orwilltheunusedonegetold?Ispentwannareadaphysicspaper
BayuMurtiwrote:
ActuallyImlittlebitconfusedwiththatDoDtheory.
Giventhat100%lastsaday,ifweapply100%DoD,thenwellget300500chargingcycles,means300500days.Ifweapply10%DoD,welldet37504700chargingcycles,butwealso
needtochargeourphone10timesaday,meanswellgetonly375470days.Whereisthedifferences?
Michalwrote:
@BayuMurti:Wellthethingisthatonechargingcycleisdefinedforwholecapacityofbattery,thatmeansifyoudischargeyourbatteryto50%DoDandthenfullychargeittwotimesitis
countasonechargecycle.Theoreticallydischargingto10%ofDoDinyourcasecanbedone10timesandthatiscountasonechargecycle.
peterwrote:
Thepracticalsweetspotseemstobe4.1vanddonttopupifyoudonthaveto.After5001000fullcharges,youwillbesickofthebattery,givenimprovedcellsovertime.
Giventhat,perhapsoutbatteriesoughtbesay26vor38vetc.,andourchargerssettocharge.1vlower.togiveanet24or36v.
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ThearticleconcurswithwhatIhearfromcruisingyachties.Keepthembetween20and80%charge,andtheylastforever.
Ialsohearflatteningthebatteryisntsobad.Itsstoringthemflatthatstheproblem.Putaflatbatteryonchargeimmediatelyyougethomeanditstolerablepractice.
kprwrote:
Hi,IwouldliketoknowwhetheraLiionbatteryinalaptopifleakedduetoexposuretoheat,willitdischargeacid/willthedischargefromthebatterybeacidicandcorrosivesuchthatit
damagesthemotherboardorchips.
Thanks
Regards,
KPR
Lilithwrote:
Hello,
IsellbatteriesinHollandtocustomersandthemostaskedquestioniswhythebatteryneedstobe40%chargedforstorage.Everyresalertellthistotheircustomers,butthisbulletin
gavesmethebestoppertunity.
Storageisbestat3.92volt58%SoC.Iappreciateditthatthisbulletingavemethebestanswer.AlsoformyelectricbikeisthisthebestSoCtomaintaincapacityataprolongedperiod.
ThanksBUandCadexforthisusefullinformation.Ilikethat.
[myEnglishisnotsogood,sorry]
MIKEwrote:
PLSmyhplaptopbatteryevenwhenfullychargewillnotpoweronmylaptoporanyotherlaptopunlessmadeactivebyjustchargingitforfewseconds(sometimes3sec),anditslastfor
3hourswhenfullycharged.whatcanidotostopthis?
Marcinwrote:
Iusemylaptopmostlyathome.Doesitmeanitsoptimaltokeepthechargerpluggedinallthetime(sincethemoreshallowthedischarge,thebettersobyextrapolation,themost
shallowdischargenodischarge,wouldbethebest)
naimawrote:
IamhavingaproblemwiththebatterylifeofmySamsunggalaxyprotablet.
It`snotchargingwhileIamusingyoutubealthoughthesignofchargingisshowingitischargingbutthepercentageofchargekeepsdecreasing.
butifIstopusingthetabletsitgetscharged.
pleasecanyouhelpmesolvethisproblembecauseifIamwatchingafilmIcan`tjuststopitandcarryonwatchingitfewhourslater.
kindestregards.
Naima
plymjackwrote:
All(nearly)veryuseful(especiallyAlice).
Ihavealotofexperiencewithlargeleadacidbatteries(fromSubmarines)butmostdoesnottranslateheretoLion.IamjustgettingaBMWi3(withoutbackupgenerator)andamkeen
tomaximiselifeandrange.
ThecarcomeswithmonitoringbutnovoltageinformationsoIwilllookforawaytoseethis.Rangeisaround120Km,butexpecttobeusedforaround32040kmaday.Willfollowthe
guidanceaboveandonchargewhendownto50%(wherepossible).
Ifanyonehasani3infooradviceIwouldliketohearit.thanks.
Jordanwrote:
GreatwriteupBUTIstilldontknowifanewphonebatteryneedstobefullychargedfromthebeginningornot.Ifitsnotfullychargedthenwillthememoryandlifeofthebatterybe
affected(diminished)?ThesearepointsIwouldhaveappreciatedknowingaboutatthebeginningofthearticleratherthansloggingthroughrheamsofdata(whichIappreciate)but
honestlydonothavetimetoreadthrough
shoaibwrote:
Thereisobviouslyalottoknowaboutthis.IthinkyoumadesomegoodpointsinFeaturesalso.Keepworking,greatjob!recipe
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CliveSkeggswrote:
ManyarticlesarewrittenaboutchargingLionbatteries,butIamsurprisednobodyseemstohavecomeupwithamethodofsafeguardingagainstoverdischarge.WhenIusedto
conditionNicadbatteries,Ibuiltarecyclerwhichusedrelaystoautomaticallycutoffthecharginganddischargingcycles.Thiswassosimple,afterfindingsuitablerelaysthatwould
releasetheholdingcoilwhenthevoltagedroppedbelowthedesiredlevel.ThisshouldbeeveneasierwithLionbatteries,seeingthattheirvoltageismucheasiertomatchwitha6or12
voltrelay.
Doesanyonehaveanysmartermethodsofeasilycontrollingtheusablevoltagelevel?Itneedstobedeadsimplesothateachseparatebatterycouldbeprotected,i.e.Using4exlaptop
Lioncellsina12vdrillbatterycase.
Isharawrote:
Ihaveagalaxynote4mobile
Ididntunderstandaboutthecorrectbatterypercentagetoplugmymobileintothechargerandcorrectpercentagetodischargeitfromcharger.
canyoupleasetellmethebesthealthypercentages.
CliveSkeggswrote:
Amystandardcommercialbatteryoperateddevicewouldhavethesesafetyfeaturesbuiltinandcanbeseenasminiaturecircuitboardswhendisassemblingabatterypack.WhatIam
referringtoinmypreviousnotewastheuseofjusttheactualcellsfromforexampleslaptoporsimilartypeofbatterypack.TheseLiioncellswouldnotnormallybeprotectedfromeither
overchargeoroverdischargewhenusedforotherpurposesthanoriginallydesignedfor.
IhavepurchasedaNitecoreD4batterycharger(recommended)whichwillensuretheproperchargingcyclebutamstillmissingasuitabledischargeprotection.
sarathsamarajeewawrote:
Veryusefularticle
HerschelSpecterwrote:
Howmuchofthe7kwhrPowerwallcanonedischargebeforesignificantlylimitingthebatterysnumberofcycles?
Thankyou
CliveSkeggswrote:
Iwouldrecommendreadingthefollowingarticle,lotsofinterestingfactswhichwillprobablyansweryourquestionaboutthe7KWPowerwallbatteries.
http://www.catalyticengineering.com/toptenfactsaboutteslas350kwhpowerwallbattery/
karthikwrote:
Heyguys.Isitokaytoleavethelaptoppluggedin.Iprettymuchuseitasadesktop.MeansitsalmostalwaysconnectedtotheACpowerandruns15hrsdaily.Ihavelimitedthecharge
levelto50%andleaveitpluggedit.Andonceinawhilewhentheresapowercutiletthebatterydischargeto7%(whichisthedefaultsettingitcamewithbeforeitwouldasktoto
connecttoapowersource)AndOnceinafewmonthsidischargeitdownto7%andthenchargeitupallthewayto100%.andthenremovethebatteryandleaveitoutfor612hrs
beforeiputitbackonmylaptopandthendischargeitdownto50%andleaveitpluggedin.asmentionedearlier.
Soisitokaytodotheaboveroutine?Isitreallyokaytoleaveitpluggedinat50%almostallthetime.?
Arnfinnwrote:
Hi.Thankyouforthisinformativepage.Idontunderstandthetable4manycarmanufactorslikeTeslaandKialetthecarchargethebatterycellstoabout4,3V.Wouldentthisdestroythe
EVbatterywithinabout2years?
BestregardsArnfinn
MichaelKuschwrote:
Veryinformativepage.
Iremembermanyyearsagowhenelectriccarswereindipers(late90s?),readinganarticlethattomaximizelife,theywouldonlyhavethebatterychargedupto60%anddischarged
downto40%,butIdontrememberwhichchemistrytheywereusingatthattime.Restassuredthatelectricarmakeraremakingeverytingtoprolongbatterylifewithouttheuserhaving
towatchforbatteryvoltages.Themosttheywillletyoudoisselectbetweenoptimizeforruntimeandoptimizeforbatterylife.
IboughtmyDellLaptopwiththeextendedbatteryonDic2010.Theoriginalcapacitywasabout9.8Ah.Thebatteryhasbeenusedandabused.Ivehaditstayatmaximumchargefor
ages,Iveitcyclefrom7%to100%constantly,Ievenhavehaditshuttingdownduetooverheatingseveraltimes.After6yearsitstillholdsmorethathan6.8Ah.Runtimehasgonedown
fromabout3.5hourstoabout2.2hours.Iveneverseenanothernotebookbatterylastaslongasthisone.Mywifesnotebookisnotquiteasoldandisalreadyonitsthirdbattery.
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Iveaquestionaboutthatdoublingoflifetimeforeach0.1/Vlowertopvoltage.Sayyouhaveabatterywithanoriginal1000mAhcapacity.IfIlowerthechargingvoltageto4.1itsstarting
capacityshouldbearound840mAh.Nowforthelifetimecalculation,whatistheendoflifecapacityused?Isit70%of1000mAhor70%of840mAh?Inmyopinion,doublingthelifetime
shouldmeandoublingthetimeittakesforthebatterytodropdownto700mAhofusablecapacity.
HoweverIveseen(onothercources)thattheyuse70%ofthenewstartingcapacity,asfor3.9Vthestartingcapacityisalreadyfarbelow70%buttheyclaima8xcyclelife.
Tomethisisnonsense,becauseat4.1V,19%newcapacitylossisalreadybelow700mAh(81%of86%isbelow70%).
Italsomeansthatsupposingalinearlossofcapacity(forclarity),itisonlybythetimea4.2Vchargedbatteryreaches750mAhcapacitythatitwouldhavelesscapacitythana4.1V
chargedbatterywhichwouldhavefallento752mAh.Thisalsomeansthatforthefirst83%ofthechargingcycles,a4.2Vchargingvoltagewouldhaveprovidedmorecapacitythana4.1V
chargingvoltage.
@TomWiersma:
ElectricbikebatteriesarenormallymadeupofLiFePO4lithiumioncells.Theadvantageisthatyoucanputtheminseriestodirectlyreplaceleadacidbatteries,andchargethemwith
standardleadacidbatterychargers.Therapidlossofcapacityinthesebatterypacksishoweverduetoacompletelyunrelatedfactor:cellunbalance.Unlessyouuseabalancing
charger,littledifferencesininternalresistancebetweencellswillkeepgrowingtheunbalancingproblem.Thechargerstopschargingwhenthemostchargedcellisatmaximumvoltaje,
andprotectioncircuitrywithinthebatterypackorthebikewillstopdischargingwhenthelowercellisatitscutoffvoltage.
Balancechargeyourbatterypackanditwillprobablygobackuptonearly20milesagain.LifecycleinLiFePO4aremuchhigherthanotherlithiumchemistries,about10002000cycles.
palemoonwrote:
IhaveaToshibaSatelliteL50A161withaLiionbattery.TheremovalofmyToshibabatteryisquitecomplicated:itisnecessarytoopenthecaseunscrewing14screwsandremovethe
dvdunit.Thebatteryitselfisfixedtothemotherboardwith4screwsandapinconnector.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG0lW7t92bI
Thiskindofnotebookwasplainlydesignedtopreventtheuserfromremovingthebattery.
Knowingthis,mymainconcernisthatIneedtousemynotebookforaprolongedperiodoftime,manyhoursaday,oftenfrommorningtonight,andIrarelyneedthebatteryasasource
ofpower,workinginplaceswheretheACpowerisalwaysavailable.TosomeextentImainlyusethebatteryasanACfilter.
Withthisinmind,Iamwonderingwhatpracticesuitsmebest:keepthelaptopconnectedtotheACgridandcalibratethebatteryonceamonthwithoccasionalpartialdischarges/charges
wouldbesafe?
YouwrotethatMostusersdonotremovetheACpower,andthispracticeissafe,butofcoursethisgoesagainstthePartialchargebetterthanafullchargeguidancerule:keepingthe
laptopconnectedtotheACgridwouldkeepthebatteryalwaysat100%charge.
NevilleWalterswrote:
thechargerformylithiumbattery(formygolfcart)hasaredlightwhenchargingandgreenwhenfullycharged.itwassuppliedwiththebattery.
itisnowshowingthegreenlight,butnotcharging.
thebatteryisusuallyneverrundowncompletely,norchargedfully.ithashadabout170ofthesecycles,i.e.abouttwiceperweek.
themakeisULTRAMAX,boughtfromAMAZON.
Idontknowmuchaboutbatteriesandwouldbegratefulforyourexpertadvice
sakthivelwrote:
ForaLIionbattery,whatistheoperatingvoltagerange.(100%means=whatisthevoltagerangeandfor0%=whatisthevoltage)
Kibberwrote:
@sakthivel:Theresamultitudeofdifferentliionbatterychemistries,eachwithdifferentmaximumandminimumvoltages,rangingfrom2.51.5vforLTO(LithiumTitanate)allthewaytoLi
CoO2NMCwith4.353.0v.Electricvehiclesoftenuseacombinationoftwoormoredifferentchemistries,toachievebothhighcurrentandhighcapacitybenefits.Moderncellphones
typicallyhave4.35vastheir100%voltageandgodowntoabout3.4vas0%(whichisprobablymoreofaphoneselectronicslimitationthanabatterylimitationperse).Numberscitedin
thisarticleareprobablyfortheoriginalimplementationsofLithiumCobaltOxide(LiCoO2),whichgoesfrom4.2vto3.0v.Whetherthesamesuggestionsforprolongingbatterylifeapplyto
otherchemistriesisaquestionIdontknowtheanswerto,butifIhadtoguess,Idsaytheyprobablydo.
Axelwrote:
i`vgotnewlylaunchedGalaxyS7withLiIonbattery.It`shabitformetochargeto100%
evenwhenihadanotherphoneswithLiPolyi`vdidsamebutthisoneisexpensivepieceofglasssoi`mwonderingaboutthatAppledonesometricktopreservecycling,ibelieve
samsungwould`vdonesamebut
howsafeistochargemybatteryfrom2530%to100%,willthisdecreaselifespanalot?andwhatisrecommendedrangeofchargingforS7`skindofbattery?
Thanksinadvanced
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