Carmen Kcomt Interview Transcript

Alicia
Carmen
Aliceson
Anne
Andrik
Bashua
All
Alicia: Okay, Im going to start the questions. So my first question is, how is life different here
compared to there? Well yeah I mean there.
Carmen: Okay first of all I have to make a clarification.
Alicia: Okay.
Carmen: I am not a refugee. I dont come from a country..where people, you know, refugees
come from..when countries are in crisis, you know war, civil war, that kind of things...people go
to a refugee camp and from a refugee camp they get resettled in this country. That is not my
situation. I am a..a asylee. Okay I am from Peru, South America and I..when I came to this
country in 2003, I asked for political asylee..and then when political asylum is granted, you
become a refugee.
Alicia: Okay.
Carmen: But it is not like I am a refugee. Because many people ask why? Peru is not in war.
Alicia: Yeah *laughs*
Carmen: Why are you a refugee from Peru? No Im not a refugee, I am an ASYLEE from Peru.
Alicia: Asylee..okay.
Aliceson: Do you think you can define asylee..for us, in general.
Carmen: Yes, okay people come and ask for asylum when they are persecuted in their country.
For some..for these five reasons; race, religion, nationality, member of a particular group, or
political opinion. Only in these five categories, you have to fit so you can apply for asylum,
otherwise the government will say no, go back to your country. In my case, if it was a little
different.. because I dont, I am not in one of these five exactly, but the judges did a very
good ..uh..interpretation of the law. Because I..I didnt do a political opinion. But I was a judge, a
superior court judge, and opinion, my judicial opinions, have political consequences. Very grave
political consequences. So thats why they granted my asylum.
Alicia: Okay, so how is life in Peru different than it is here.
Carmen: Not much actually..
Alicia: Really?
Carmen: You know, yeah! Peru, they can call Peru a third-developed country, or something like
that. But its not, I mean right now, with internet and all of that and you know better than me. I
was there last year and I..I actually didnt see muchAlicia: Oh so you went back?
Carmen: Yeah, I went back after ten years.
Alicia: Wow...

Carmen: -Because I, theres no way to go back before.. Yo-you can only go back when you are
an asylee. When you become a citizen of the United States, okay so I am right now a citizen of
the United StatesAlicia: For ten years?
Carmen: Yes, after. Well actually for five, because my asylum and all the process. Lets say four
years and a half and then become a permanent resident and then you have to wait five years to
apply for an authorization of citizenship. So I went back and not much, look legally we are very
good and I can say even better in some-in some points. Like example, in criminal law here andand police procedures are really...not good. Okay, we are better on that.
Alicia: Why?
Carmen: We have ambos men, defenseria de pueblo, (Translation: We have many men,
defense of the town) which is an organization by the United Nations that cares about Human
Rights. And if you dont have an attorney, you can go there and they will talk for you. We dont
have this here in the United States. The United States was one of the last countries who signed
a conve-international convention rights of the child. Why? Because we use to have, and I guess
I hope Im wrong, death penalty for minors. We dont have that in Peru, okay so hello!
Anne: We-we changed it here.
Carmen: Just-just veryAnne: Just recently.
Carmen: Just recently here.
Alicia: Thats recent here?
Anne: Well I think it was 2005.
Carmen: We have minors here, who have the sentence for 50 years in prison. That is, that is a
bad-its a gross violation of the International Convention. International Convention says they can
not go over 6 years.
Anne: Really?
Carmen: I have a client, shes a mother. Her son was sentenced 50 years in prison! When he
was 17 years old, so in this-I am-ah you know what Im saying?
Anne: Yes.
Carmen: United States can be United States, but in some-in some, how can I say this? In some
matters or some situations, we are not developed country when they talk about human rights.
So, going back to your question...
Anne: *laughs*
Carmen: How do you think of my overall answer? I mean there is not much. You can have here
safety, its a good thing. Okay because I can-I have to recognize and admit Peru is not safe.
When I say safe, Im not talking about terrorism. Im talking about safe being walking on the
street, with your purse, or maybe some jewelry and they would *sound effect* and they would
take away because there is a lot of poverty. I mean its not an excuse, but its a reason.
Alicia: Yeah.
Carmen: Okay, I dont know if you were in different countries like the United States. But it is a
safety rule, you can not leave your car open because they will take away something. You know
it can be petty, death, they may just take your food because theyre hungry. Its a poor country.
So in those situations, yes United States is much,much 100% better. Even though I live in
Santee, in a nice place, you know but I-I got my car broken into, so you know we are changing.

But safety is best, for safety reasons its better here. Medical reasons its better here. The
access to medical services. Uh...traffic, is better here.
Alicia: Oh! Wow!
Carmen: Yeah! Its better...
Alicia: Oh its pretty bad too. Its more traffic there?
Carmen: Oh its better because we drive like in Italy or in Colombia, everybody is like argh!! Like
that, like you know everybody wants to...
Alicia: Everybody drives like super fast?
Carmen: Yeah so some parts are good here.
Alicia: Okay, so what was your typical day like in your home country?
Carmen: Typical day, okay, before I came. Um..uh..usually I start working in my courtroom,
8/8:30. I attend 6 hearings everyday, uh sign declarations and then also some..eh..some kind of
case that I can make decisions right away, like is he going to jail or not? Is this going to lock this
account, bank account or not? Is this guy, are we going to order the..closing of all their frontiers
so he can not run out of the country-something like that. So that was my, in court from 8:30 to
4:30 and after that I..I was a teacher and a professor talking with the refugees there and the law
there, teaching law and yeah. Basically did that for years and years.
Alicia: What was your childhood like?
Carmen: Childhood?
Alicia: Yes.
Carmen: Very good. I was very lucky, I always said this when people invite me to speak in
conferences or something. I won the lottery and my parents won the lottery. Yeah, they are
amazing. Well my dad just passed, a year and a half ago. Mom is still around but they are
amazing. So I dont have any complaint about my childhood.
Alicia: Thats good. What was something you look forward to every morning when you wake up?
Carmen: *Sigh* Okay I am not that kind of person who wants to sleep, I dont feel I just really
sleep. If I sleep Im thinking, oh I have to look for a shelter for this person! Oh I have to call the
immigration officers so he could release this person! So my sleeping is like that. Always. Here in
united-even in Peru. I use to co-came in the morning and I said to my secretary, hey pull out the
sentence from yesterday. Paragraph number 5! Change this! Change that! Did you sleep? Were
you studying the whole night? No I just dream with my things, because I am really obsessed
with my work and Ive been a perfectionist when I do something. So here it is kind of the same
because you are the same in essence here and there, in China, Peru, wherever right? It is who
you are. Even though I am not a judge anymore and I hope you have a question about it
because I still miss my job, so much! And its my way to be, be very responsible when Im doing.
So every morning I will say, Im checking my calendar, know what Im going to do, and I have
my-all the other things I have to do. But everything is about helping, about advocacy, and about
corrections, and about networking, and about those kind of things. Yeah so my work is my life.
*starts at 10:00 minutes*
Alicia: Who was living in your household with you?
Carmen: Its my middle son living there.
Alicia: Currently?
Carmen: Currently.
Alicia: How about in Pero

Carmen: In Peru the three boys, but now the oldestAlicia: Three different sons?
Carmen: Yes, the older one is in Barcelona, Middle one is going to Berkeley because he just got
accepted and the little one hes with me.
Alicia: Whats something you miss about your previous home?
Carmen: From my previous life?
Alicia: Yes
Carmen: My job
Alicia: Really? How is it different here now
Carmen: Oh my god, its so different! Totally different. Can you imagine- I dont want to look like
I am too proud. I dont want that guys don't get me wrong. Being a judge you have so much
power. You know with your signature you can dissolve marriage. With your signature you can
say these kids go with her. Just with your signature you can lock or unlock bank accounts. You
can say this house is going to be for wife. And this car are for you. So its a lot of power. You can
put people in jail. I mean probation and liberty of people, its a lot of power. And if you use that to
help people in the right way you- you feel super useful. Everday, everday. Writing sentences
doing things, the right thing to do. Now when I am here, I feel like maybe this isnt something
that Amy Quibee told me long ago when we were friends. She said Karmen you know how I see
you? LIke a supergirl with no powers anymore but but before you can fly not you can not. And
then she gave me another example, its like you have this bag full of tools and you are using
one or two maybe. So those are the example that I can give you that I really miss. And if I say
sometimes oh I'm super happy, the united states, I have blah blah,. Maybe yes but it is true you
can not have everything in life. I had it for three years, I dont have it anymore. Sometimes when
I just came here I was upset with my life and everything and I went to therapy and I came to her
everyday like why when you do the right thing you get punished, and and she said said you are
not punished, but it took me a long time to understand and to admit it. I am not punished. I am a
legal advocate here so I-I manage human trafficking program. I have over 70. 70, seven zero.
And they come from 10 different countries, sex trafficking, laboring trafficking. And I am the
director of the department and I also have an immigration attorney working with clients and
victims of violent because of violence. I domestic violence victims so thats my job, working with
victims of crime.
Alicia: Do you like it?
Carmen: I love it
Aliceson: So when you first came here in 2005 was it hard for you to adjust
Carmen: it was in 2003 I came one night and I knew the county because I was in a very
dangerous situation. So I came and and that night we were parking in the place that my brother
was living here and they had a swimming pool in the middle of the complex and my little one
who is going to Berkley 10 something years ago, who was kind of sleepy getting out from the
cafr said who is swimming in my pool. And we told him well this is not your pool, we are not in a
house anymore. You it was a big change, a big change. And the kids they get-they get adjust
easy even with english and everything because they were speaking english in Puro. For me it
was very difficult. I went through a very large depression time, so their was a point where I didnt
do my hair, didnt shower, I was just so upset with everything then I was asking myself what am I
doing, I want to go back but I cant take my kids, no but I do not want to go without the kids, so it

was like bad bad bad and well you know after I dont know, four years maybe I accepted, it was
very long but I had to. Look these are still my-the scars from my attacks there. I have- can you
it?
All: Yeah
Carmen: Yeah well before it was very bad, now its better, here here here all of this way
Alicia: What happened?
Karmen: They dropped me and I was in the hospital many times, it was bad. You should check
the website I think its on there. And you can- you can show it to them the pictures, but on my
website there's a lot of my story there. In google
Aliceson: What's the website?
Carmen: Did you open it? I think its Karmen Slideshow something like that
Alicia & Aliceson talk
Anne: Carmen I just heard the term brain waste, where so many refugees come to this county
and there are people like Karmen, a judge, and even though youre doing important work, you're
not a judge here. Isnt this brain waste
Carmen: Yeah their are so many- we have doctors, being a taxi driver phycology, we have
engineers- I have one girl- shes an engineer from India and she came as a fiance and the
husband beat her up very very bad.
..cant hear audio
Carmen: Its in spanish Im sorry but look you will know
Alicia: You speak spanish?
Carmen: Yeah, I do. My grandparents are chinese thats why I look the way I look. *points to
powerpoint* look its in spanish
Anne: oh my gosh you made the headline
Carmen: Yeah for two years, first page in every paper. In the paper *points to computer screen*
judge threat ands president. Very silent talking.abandon the paternity case, the president of
the court.this were my bodyguards for two years
Alicia: Why did you need a paternity test?
Carmen: Because a . Was asFking. Look this me long time ago
All: Wow
Carmen: God I got so old
Alicia: You dont look that different
Carmen: Thank you
This is government...this is me the dicrist attorney
Alicia: You were in a lot of new papers
Carmen: oh yeah, I have so much.. This is outside my courtroom look, protecting me because
people were crazy in those times. They are fans of the president and they were against me and
they were the ones who attacked me.. She ruled against the president of puro
Alicia: Thats why you had to leave
Carmen: Yeah.
Anne: Oh my god talk about incredible
(First 10 mins after 20)

Carmen: ...Final evidence. This is the justice that put the president to the...how do you say it...to
the border of resignation.
Alicia: Woah
Carmen: So that was the worst point, was when the congress they were asking him to resign for
lack of moral character. Remember what happened with Clinton? Something like that. So we
were almost at the point where the president has to go. Peru with no president. And it was
totally an unstable situation.
(Showing us pictures) So this is when I go there, and they are celebrating. This is the news in
China post.
Anne: How old was the girl?
Carmen: This was all around the world. The girl was 13. So look, this is a China post. And look
at the next one. The next one is Los Angeles Times, talking about paternity test, and my name
there. And then that one This is Sun Sentinel, which is also American (refering to the
newspaper). Judge. Case closed. .I didn't have papers for many many countries. This is
another article.
Anne: When you were seeking asylum, did you have to present all of this?
Carmen: Oh, yeah. All of this. You know, Carmen Chavez was my attorney.
Anne: Oh, really?
Carmen: Yes. Only friend since that time... Oh and this...see this is Mexico. The news went all
around the world. This is Brazil. This is Chile. Spain.I think I have more, but it was a long time
ago. I dont know where they are now (referring to the articles). I remember that in those times, I
send my kids out of from the country. The two...oldest one first, then me. When I was in all of
this situation. The one who is living with me now, the middle one, was like 11 years old at that
time. And he was in Miami when this happened. Since the news was all around the world, and
he was watching T.V, I think the Spanish channel. And he saw me there. And when I called him,
Hey, how are you doing? He said, Mommy I saw you on the T.V, and you didnt do your hair!
He was worried about the hair!
But now, when we remember we laugh about all of this thing.
Aliceson: When you look back to all of your hardships do you ever feel like you shouldnt have
gone against the president, or do you feel like whatever you've gone through was worth it to this
day?
Carmen: If I could go back in time, I would do the same. Exactly the same. Even though I
already know the consequences, that was the right thing to do. I was teaching family law for 7
years in 2 universities, public and private. And how do I stand in front of my students if I do
something like to serve somebodys interests? No, I had the eyes of everybody there. And it
wasnt because they were watching, it was my conscious I would do the same, and maybe
worse.
Bashua: So you going against the president, was that the only reason you had to flee, or were
people already against you because of other things?
Carmen: No, and thank you for that question, because I have to make it clear: I was not against
the president. It happens that...when youre a judge, and you have a case in your hands, you
have to apply the law. And when I applied the law, that result was not good for him. So it was
nothing against him, its nothing personal, it was just that he was not in the best situation. So my
orders...he didnt like my orders, of course. That was the only reason that I left. Otherwise I

would have stayed there, who knows, maybe in the supreme court. You know, I was ready to go
to the next level. So that was the reason. The only one reason I left.
Andrik: What was the mode of transportation you used to get to the U.S.?
Carmen: Airplane. Yeah, because it was far, 9 hours flying. And if you made one stop it was 11
hours flying. Its very far in an airplane.
Aliceson: Would you consider coming to the United States a big accomplishment for you?
Carmen: Yes, and now Im happy. Remember that when I told you I came here I was so upset.
Now Im happy because I know that its mandatory for every law student in Peru to study my
case. So I am in history, judicial history.
Aliceson: Thats amazing.
Carmen: Yeah, because we change it. We change it at some point, the laws in that case, but I
honor the constitution of my country. So I am in the book, I am the story, and I am proud of what
I did, even though that I am not a judge anymore. But you know, in this country, I learned that if
you are a judge in this country, you are a judge until you die. Thats why when they get together,
even though that they are not practicing as a judge, they still call them judges. When I went to
this I got an award in San Diego, Bar Association, and they were calling me a judge. Jude
here and Judge there. And I was like, oh, they may not know that I am not anymore. And the
one of them explained to me, You for us, in the judicial community, you are still a judge. We
have to give you respect because you were, and if you are not anymore its not because
someone said bye from the bench, its because other reasons. So from us, you have the
respect as a judge.... That sounds good. But its not.well, its still good.
Anne: I remember one of your stories, when you first arrived here, one of your sons, he had
lived a lovely life in Peru. So her son said to her, Mommy, are we poor?
Carmen: Yeah, we were having lunch. Everybody laughed, so he started doing it, kind of often.
We were having lunch, he was the oldest one, in a little apartment, there we used bunk beds.
We used to have somebody that cooked for us, three people working in the house. Well, a very
nice life. Comfortable. And we lived in a small apartment, and I was cooking horrible. The first
time I did laundry I messed up the clothes of everybody. White and colors.because you can
be very smart for some things, but it doesnt mean that you know everything. So I was like, Oh
my god, how do you do this, how do you do that? I learned everything.
Alicia: So you had to learn new things?
Carmen: This was a new life to me. Even going out with, you know, just by myself
Alicia: You were used to your bodyguards?
Carmen: Yeah, its different. Driving. When I came to this country I didn't know hot to put the
gas! What am I going to do now? Park the car, here, like this. What?....I learned everything. In
my city we dont have freeways.
Alicia: Just streets?
Carmen: Just streets. I was driving in the freeway at the beginning like, woah, this is too fast. I
pulled over to the side. Oh my god I need to learn how to do this. So it was not easy, but
Fernando was the one who was at the lunch when my son said Are we poor now? I said, Yes,
we are. We are. And at the beginning I was having a lot of guilty feelings, of putting them in this
situation. And I had the chance to tell them, Im sorry, but you guys are here because of me. But
then in the times, do you remember that before Facebook there was another website

All: Myspace?
Carmen: Myspace! And they used to have that, and sometimes they would leave it open. And
one they I saw Fernandos Myspace...and do you remember on the left side it said Whos your
hero? Something like that. They said, both of them, my mom.
Everyone: Awww
Carmen: Something like, ah, relax, like okay so they don't, they are not judging me because we
are poor or because we were, I was taking them to, buy groceries and always looking for the
cheapest things. Cause we were, no, jobs when we came here no, no money, no english, so it
was different but you know? So they helped me so much, I remember Carmen did you
get the groceries, we gonna work for you. Do you have a , um a . A waiter well, ahhh, I
go, dont worry. They were amazing. The times when David Gancy... remember, Gancy,
Gawncy? Were there?
Anne: David?
Carmen: Did you know him? Yeah.
Anne:Yeah he just retired from everything.
Carmen: Yeah, they helped me so much. I had a lot of help. And casa .. center..Th.. they,
my whole asylum, and my, my son and my .. now hes my ex husband, and my asylum pays too,
for fee bought all fee. God, I wish I had taken pictures of Moska, my attorney. He did a .They
helped me so much, a lot, and yeah. I'm gonna die grateful for them. So that's why when they
call me Sunday, like Carmen, can you please come in and talk in this church? I say okay, I can
not say no. I cant.
Anne: This is good for me to know too.
All: Hahahahaha.
Carmen: Im so happy, you guys are very young and ahh, uh, interested in this topic.
Anne: Can you tell us a little bit about this school?
Alicia:Yeah.
Anne: We dont understand how, this school works.
Alicia: Were project based.
Aliceson: Yeah.So instead of textbooks and stuff we learn things based off of projects we do.
And its very student run, well I wouldnt say the students run it, but the students opinions are
really important here in this school. We have a lot of say in what happens. So like even projects
sometimes students would propose an idea and maybe the teacher would expand on it. Or dont
propose an idea, and then we say whether we, you know, like it or are really interested in it. So i
feel like that's one reason why I would say students are engaged here, are because like our
projects are mostly like our opinions mixed in with they or like what the teachers are planning for
us to do. And the teachers are really close with their students so
Carmen: And its a charter school?
Alicia:Yes.
Anne: But its approved by San Diego Unified School District?
Alicia:Yes.
Anne: And so, how, would you learn algebra?
Aliceson:We have typical like math classes but we use projects to like, really expand on the
topic. Like We wont just do problems on it. We'll have a lesson with everybody and then maybe
our teacher will create something related to algebra, that might connect to like something out in

the world and apply that to our project, and then we'll be doing algebra, but not just straight out
of textbooks.
Anne: So you dont go home with a backpack full of textbooks?
Alicia: No.
All: Hahahahahaha.
Anne: Mmmh, wow that's something right there.
Alicia:Well its set on the computers too so.
Anne: Do you have homework?
Alicia: Not as much as other schools, so were really fortunate for that.
Aliceson: Cause mostly were just working on projects and usually project do go into home.
Anne: So you probably get interested in it, and do it at night too.
Aliceson: Yeah, last night i was just working on what we prefered for three hours. It only had to
be half a page but I dont know, I just like wanted to work on it. So I feel like a lot of students
here are really like interested.
Carmen: And like where comes your interest in talking with refugees or asylum?
I think its
Carmen: Was it curiosity or?
Aliceson: Yeah.
Alicia: I was really excited for today.
Carmen: Yeah well, its, its, its, amazing that we have in city heights the largest immigrant
community in the united states before it was queens. Now they say city heights, in the place
where I work, you walk in the street and you don't know where you are, cause you know
everybody's, different places, they speak, in, in the place where work people speak over 20
different languages.
Anne: 20?
Alicia: How many do you speak?
Carmen: I, I just speak spanish. I used to understand Chinese but when my parent, my
grandparents passed, I did forget.
Anne: You dont use it?
Carmen: But I, I still understand it a little bit, if they speak very slow.
All: Hahaha.
Carmen: But yeah.
Anne: That's how it is for danish for me, um, if i hear a little bit of danish, it's like, my ears perk
up like im, i'm a dog.
All: Hahahaha. Ahhh.
Carmen: That is one of my goals for this year. And its already almost june I, I wanna learn
another, another language. Yeah, I , I want to try with arabic.
Anne: That's a good idea.
Carmen: You know, You know that they, they, they, they, um, learn Spanish very easy. For them,
so I guess that there's a connection or something between
Arabic and Spanish.
Anne: Thats interesting.
Carmen: Something like that.
Anne: Well have we concluded?

Alicia: We met the conclusion.

Carmen: Thank you.
All: Thank you so much for coming.
Carmen: My pleasure my pleasure, congratulations, and I hope you continue with your curiosity
about these topics.
Anne: I'm so glad I was able to sit in.
Carmen: And let me send give you my information in case you have more questions or
someday you want to come and visit me, in my office.
Anne: That would be fun.
Carmen: Yeah that would be great
Anne: Yeah..
Alicia:Oh you have a card. Thank you.
Carmen: So you guys can share with this.
I know where that place is.
Carmen: Oh yeah ?
Yeah I use to go there a lot.
Carmen: Yeah I am the director of the disleagal.
Anne: Now where do you all live? Do you live close to school?
Alicia: I live in North Park.
Carmen: North Park?, I, I love North Park.
Aliceson: I live more up North, so like, where is it, Carmel Mountain, Escondido type area.
Anne: Oh my god.
I live in like 54th University, like near college.
Carmen: Ohh, very close to my work. So you know what im talking right? Immigration and the
refugees. Youre very close to IRC. No? International Refugee Committee, I think its that. In 54
University
Andrick: Oh yeah.
Carmen: IRC. And you?
Anne: Its in that complex, I live right across the street.
Bashua: Well I use to live in City Heights but now I moved to Logan Heights.
Anne: I live right across the street
Carmen: Oh you so you use to live in City Heights? Yeah they know what we're talking about.
Anne: Where do you live now Bashua?
Bashua: In Logan Heights.
Anne: Logan heights?
Bashua: Yeah.
Carmen: I live in Santee.
Anne: I live right across the street across up the hill there.
Carmen: I live in Santee, and one block away from my, my house, I mean townhouse, there are
7 or 9 lakes.
Anne: Really? Woah.
Carmen: Santee lakes.
Thats a lot.
Anne: I didnt know that, Ive lived here forever.

Carmen: From my balcony I can see the mountains. Really Nice to meet you.
Thank you so much.