MAN B&W - VIT and Super VIT, Forum Post, Marine Talk, Equipment...

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MAN B&W - VIT and Super VIT

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MAN B&W - VIT and Super VIT

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Member: Ritinkar Sen

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Post Date: 1/26/2003

Modern large slow speed MAN B&W 2-stroke engines have Super VIT mechanism fitted to advance fuel injection at lower
loads for increasing maximum firing pressure resulting better fuel economy. Details of Super VIT are available in the engine
manuals.
Why use the term "Super"? was there an "ordinary" VIT earlier, which has been changed to Super VIT?
If yes, can I have a brief description of how the ordinary (non-Super) VIT worked?
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Member: Lars G. Jacobsen

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Post Date: 1/27/2003

Before the Super VIT was introduced variable injection timing was obtained by means of a special profile on the fuel pump
plunger. Hence there was a fixed relationship between the injection timing and the fuel index. Thus it was not possible to
adjust the fuel index of the individual pumps without also altering the injection timing. For this reason the Super VIT was
introduced, where it is possible to adjust the fuel index and the injection timing independently.
Lars G. Jacobsen
MAN B&W Diesel A/S
Copenhagen
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Member: gaurav

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Post Date: 1/28/2003

Sir,
Is it possible to achieve Super VIT action by means of mechanical linkage or can it be only done if we have
electronic(microprocessor) controlled fuel injection system. Or is it right to say that most efficent Super VIT can only be
achieved by electronic fuel injection ?
Gaurav
MERI-Kolkata
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Member: Lars G. Jacobsen

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Post Date: 1/28/2003

The Super VIT is available in both a mechanical and a electronic version. In the electronic version an I/P converter supplies
the pilot air pressure to the individual servo cylinders, instead of the pilot valve activated by the fuel rack used in the
mechanical version. The I/P converter receives its pilot signal from the governor system.

The advantage of the electronic version is that the break-point is calculated from the actual conditions, why the ambient
conditions are taken into account. The engine load is calculated from the engine speed and the fuel index, while the
compression pressure is calculated from the scavenging air pressure. Based on these calculations the governor calculates the
output to the I/P converter.
Lars G. Jacobsen
MAN B&W Diesel A/S
Copenhagen
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Member: RolloTomkins

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Post Date: 3/4/2003

Sir
Am I right in assuming break point is where max cylinder pressure has been reached before MCR which is about 85% MCR
when using VIT, after which injection timing is retarded back to its original setting at 100% MCR

Also, does the MAN B&W engine have a fuel quality setting lever on the VIT control similar to that used on the Sulzer RTA, or
must the fuel pumps be adjusted individually if a fuel of differing ignition quality is bunkered.
Thankyou
RT

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Member: Lars G. Jacobsen

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Post Date: 3/4/2003

The breakpoint is the point where the maximum cylinder pressure has been reached and the injection timing is advanced the
most. Above the breakpoint the injection timing is gradually retarded back until it reaches its original setting at 100% MCR
load. The position of the breakpoint is determined by the layout of the engine. Formerly it was generally considered to be at
approximately 85% MCR load, but it also has to be ensured that the maximum pressure rise from compression to maximum
cylinder pressure is 35 bar or less (recommended by MAN B&W Diesel A/S). For this reason the breakpoint has tended to be
somewhat higher on the latest engines (approximately 90% MCR load).

In order to compensate for fuel related differences in the maximum cylinder pressure it is possible to adjust the VIT according
to the experience with the different fuels.
In case of the mechanical VIT an offset is introduced by moving the pilot valve bracket horizontally towards or away from the
lever, by means of the adjusting screws.
In case of the electronic VIT it is possible to adjust an offset value on the governor panel.

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Lars G. Jacobsen
MAN B&W Diesel A/S
Copenhagen
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Member: Johannes

What the term fuel index and how is it adjusted?

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Member: Lars G. Jacobsen

http://www.marinetalk.com/forum-post.asp?thread_id=T73255

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Post Date: 3/22/2004
Edit/Delete
Post Date: 3/22/2004

The fuel index is an indication of the active stroke of the fuel pump. This is controlled by push rods on the individual fuel
pumps connected to the fuel rack, which in turn is controlled by the engine governor.

When the engine is given a speed command the governor increases the fuel index, subject to certain limitations, untill the
requested engine speed is reached.
Lars G. Jacobsen
MAN B&W Diesel A/S
Copenhagen
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Member: rec

Post Date: 2/3/2008

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Member: lgj

Post Date: 2/4/2008

dear sir,
if i am not wrong, the vit pilot line pressure increases to approx 3 kg at break point and then reduces till the mcr keeping the
pmax const.
i would like to draw your attention to the inlet pressure of this vit pilot valve which is 7 kg (control line pr).
i had experienced sticking of this pilot valve and full 7 kg outlet pressure was fed to the servo positioners. luckily it was
noticed immediately and corrective actions were taken.
suppose this had happened during ums period in an engine room, would any enine alarm sound?
what would the peak pressure be during that limited time with pilot line pressure at 7 kg and an engine operating at 90 %
mcr?

If the servo signal increases way beyond the normal operating range, e.g. as you state the worst case is equal to the control
system pressure of 7 bar, this will naturally result in an increased pressure rise from the compression pressure to the
maximum pressure.
No alarm is provided for this malfunction, as it does not directly influence the operation of the engine. The increased pressure
rise will actually improve the performance of the engine, but will over time overstress the piston rings. If such a condition is
allowed to exist for a long time, cylinder condition problems are thus likely to occur. However, an abnormal servo signal ought
to be discovered by the engine crew during their routine inspection rounds - even with the engine room under UMS
conditions.
Lars G. Jacobsen
MAN Diesel A/S
Copenhagen
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Member: rec

Post Date: 2/6/2008

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thank you sir for your reply,

but if we observe the VIT index at break point, this would be around 6 notch and the peak pressure developed at this point
would be the design 140 bar in the cylinder. If 7 bar is admitted to the servo the VIT index becomes around 14 notch. and as
each notch gives an increase in peak pressure of 1 bar, the peak pressure may exceed by 8 bars. this difference may increase
more if the engine is operated above the break point. wouldnt this effect the load on the bearings and other runnig gear if the
engine is operated in this condition for more than 8 hrs.
My doubt is , why isnt a reducer fitted before the vit pilot valve, when the max pressure needed is 3.5 bars, which is given
during engine starting and astern movements.
the data above are speculated and may not be fully correct, please correct if wrong.
thanking you.
manish

Member: Lars G. Jacobsen

Post Date: 2/7/2008

The actual VIT index at the break point depends on a variety of factors, e.g. fuel properties and ambient conditions. The latter
is taken into account in the calculations of the electronic VIT version, as the scavenging pressure is used in the calculations.
Consequently, it is not possible to state default values for the VIT index break point setting or rate of change.
In any case, the mechanical limits of the VIT system also have to be considered. The travel of the servo actuators is designed
to be going from a minimum at a servo signal of 0.5 bar to a maximum at a servo signal of 5.0 bar, why the mechanical limit
is reached earlier than a servo signal of 7 bar would otherwise indicate. In case of the mechanical VIT system, the break point
is determined by the point where the lever rests on both pivot points. In this case it is not possible to depress the pressure
adjusting valve further, thus preventing a too high servo signal as the control air inlet will always press the piston of the
pressure adjusting valve against the lever.
Even if the maximum pressure is over the specified maximum, the engine is not overloaded due to this. The engine load is
determined by the power required to turn the propeller at the requested revolutions and a malfunction of the VIT system does
not change this and e.g. the auxiliary systems are not affected by this either. Consequently, the only real impact on the
engine is the increased pressure differential over the piston rings, due to the too high pressure rise from the compression
pressure to the maximum pressure, and a very limited increase to the bearing load.
As stated earlier, the over stressing of the piston rings may possibly require maintenance, if the malfunction is allowed to
persist, but does not affect the possibility to safely manoeuvre the engine. Hence, it has not been deemed necessary to
introduce an alarm or other measures to prevent or limit the duration of such a malfunction.
Lars G. Jacobsen
MAN Diesel A/S
Copenhagen

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Member: rec

Post Date: 2/7/2008

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Thank you sir, for clearing my doubts.

regards
manish
Member: chsri67

Post Date: 2/24/2008

Thanks for the useful discussion. We have a problem with the VIT gear in the fuel pump getting stuck. It has to be freed
frequently by injecting diesel through the plug at the base of the pump.We are using LSHS as fuel. What is the provision for
lubricating the gear when the barrel seals are new and not passing.
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Member: nike4065

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Post Date: 4/28/2008

Dear Lars,
Your explanation is hitting nail on head. Though worked on many super VIT engines, never thought it was super VIT until
now.
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Member: jet

Post Date: 8/13/2009

Good day,

According to my understanding, VIT has been introduced to reduce the specific fuel oil consumption by raising the combustion
pressure.
If cylinder problems are encountered, one can be tempted to reduce the combustion pressure in order to reduce the
experienced problems. But this obviously has a cost due to the consequently increased fuel consumption.
What is the relationship between increased combustion pressure and reduced SFOC in the range of the VIT breakpoint (i.e. 1
bar increase in p_max gives x g/BHP H reduction in SFOC
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Member: noman john

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Post Date: 11/17/2009

sir,
i am a engineer i want to know more about super VIT like related diagrams and any site where i can get some more data.
thank u
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Member: noman john

sir,
thanks for useful information need more information on super vit pls tell me any site

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Post Date: 11/17/2009

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Member: sunny

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Post Date: 11/28/2009

HI ,Lars G. Jacobsen , Thamks for explaining the concept of vit very nicely. can u help me in letting me know what is lattest
technical developments takong place in b&w engines.
will highly apreciate as required for my project. thx
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Member: Amitava

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Post Date: 3/18/2010

I am trying to clarify some VIT adjustment issues. I would be really greatful if you can help me on the following queries:
Engine: HSD-MANBW 12K90MC

To start with the queries, firstly, we noticed that the VIT index of this engine got 0 to 14 markings. We wanted to know this 0
to 14 marking translates to how many Degrees of injection timing adjustment. We were unable to locate this information in
any related manual.
Secondly, To introduce VIT offset for fuel quality there is a option in nor control, parameter 13. Could you let us know what is
the scale/value for this, i.e. how much offset causes the injection timing to advance/retard by what degree?
And lastly, How do we disengage the electronic governor while keeping the fuel rack/fuel setting constant?
Is the attached method will be effective?
Can we do it in a simpler way like using constant fuel mode with deadband on where the governor does not regulate fuel
control unless the variation in rpm exceeds the deadband setting.
We will appreciate your help in this regard.
Reply

Member: amit

Edit/Delete
Post Date: 3/18/2010

I am trying to clarify some VIT adjustment issues. I would be really greatful if you can help me on the following queries:
Engine: HSD-MANBW 12K90MC

To start with the queries, firstly, we noticed that the VIT index of this engine got 0 to 14 markings. We wanted to know this 0
to 14 marking translates to how many Degrees of injection timing adjustment. We were unable to locate this information in
any related manual.
Secondly, To introduce VIT offset for fuel quality there is a option in nor control, parameter 13. Could you let us know what is
the scale/value for this, i.e. how much offset causes the injection timing to advance/retard by what degree?
And lastly, How do we disengage the electronic governor while keeping the fuel rack/fuel setting constant?

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Is the attached method will be effective?

Can we do it in a simpler way like using constant fuel mode with deadband on where the governor does not regulate fuel
control unless the variation in rpm exceeds the deadband setting.
I will appreciate your help in this regard and thank you in advance.
Reply | Email

Member: yukiran1981

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Post Date: 12/19/2010

Sir,
1.Why Negative cam or Inward cam used in Air distributor of the MAN B&W Starting Air System.Why not a positive cam?
2. Advantages of using Wasted studs for securing main bearing top keep in MAN B&W.Why not jacking bolts?
uday kiran,3/E
Maersk

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Member: Pracheer Singh

Hello Uday Sir!

Your answers to the queries are as follows ( forgive me if I miss something):

Edit/Delete
Post Date: 1/4/2011

1. The cam for the air distributor serves its purpose only while starting the engine, reversing and again starting. Actually if you
see there is no other requirement of this particular cam while the Engine is in continuous operation. Therefore if a cam (
normal positive ) is used then the wear of this particular cam will be obviated and will be expensive to repair/replace this cam.
So when the engine has started, and the vessel is en-route a voyage, then this particular cam turns without ant running gear
touching it. It comes into play while starting.
2. Previously, you might be knowing that the main bearing keeps were held down by Jacking bolts (eg. Sulzer RND ). The
reason behind that was the the kind of construction of the bed plate itself. When a cylinder fires, the pressure not only forces
the main journals down but there is also a component of force which pushes the cylinder head up. Now the Cylinder Head,
entablature and the bed plate is tied and precompressed by the TIE RODS. Now when the firing forces come, then there is a
couple formed- a) One component of force tries to push the journal down and b) the other component tries to Push the Tie
Rods up. Now at the bottom, the tie rods are bolted to the bed plate so a couple thus formed will try to rock the bed plate and
thus the engine. To counter attack this problem, the tie rods were kept as close to the centerline of the engine as possible and
due to space restrictions, the jack bolts were used to keep the bearing top covers tight(reaction force through the
entablature). Note that there was only one cover for the main bearing having two jack bolts. Now recent development has
waisted studs on the main bearing cap but the are OFFSET FROM the transverse centerline of the engine. Waisted studs give
more comression as they have more elasticity and resilience. As a matter of fact, from the foundation bolts to the con rod
bolts, the x-head bolts etc are all waisted studs. So care has to be taken while working as the necked region should not be
marked, scored or cracked as due to reversal os stresses, fatigue will cause a crack initiation and finally fracture.
Hope you found it satisfactory and for the details you can refer the manuals and refer Lamb's and Cowley.
Thanks and Regards,
Pracheer Singh,
NYK
[This message has been edited by Pracheer Singh (edited 1/4/2011).]
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Member: aksahil

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Post Date: 7/10/2011

Does the Sulzer engine have Super VIT?If yes, then what is the difference between VIT and super VIT in Sulzer?
Reply

Member: aksahil

Post Date: 7/10/2011

Does the sulzer engine have super VIT?If yes,then what is the difference between VIT and super VIT in sulzer?
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Member: ritinkarsen

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Post Date: 10/3/2011

When Sulzer introduced their VIT it had the pssibility of adjusting the beginning and end of fuel injection independent of one
another i.e. it had the same features as the MAN B&W super VIT. Hence there is no question of a "super VIT" in a Sulzer
engine. The only change the Sulzer made was to replace the mechanical control of the VIT by an elctronic control in their later
engines.
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Member: sanket

can anyone shed some light on whether the exhaust valve timing of an smc engine change???
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Member: frans

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Post Date: 10/6/2011

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Post Date: 1/23/2012

Sir,
We facing problem with Main Engine Man B&W 6L35 MC, after sea trial we can't pass the critical rpm between 115 - 130.The
rpm can reach around 120.
After that we open and check / calibrate the fuel valve make at 300 Bar +/- 20 and calibration governor.
We try from manual / emergency side, still the rpm can't increase.
Other things, we also already check the pneumatic system from air regulator valve at 5 Bar.
The primary (fuel feed pump and booster) adjust at 6 Bar to fuel pump.
The engine smoothly start and idle at 100 Rpm
Could you help us to give same advice for our matter?
regards
Frans

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Member: Rohann

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Post Date: 7/10/2012

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Dear Frans,
We too are facing the same problem as detailed by you, ours is a 5S60MC, also vibrations when trying to increase
speed...ahve you solved your proble, if you could please revert
Warm Rgds
Rohann

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Member: pravin7yadav

any budy plz Explain vit with relevant scketches...?

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Post Date: 7/19/2013

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Member: md

Post Date: 8/14/2013

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Frans
I believe your engine reached the limit ,there is stopper bolt fit on the main fuel rack which prevent excessive load and protect
the engine, you may got the engine fully loaded due to external resistance which can be determined from power card .
If you check the engine power and found to be fully loaded then the hull fouled in such cases RPM will not go to maximum
since speed converted to power
Good luck
Member: PRASANNA R. GOLATKAR

Post Date: 11/4/2013

sir,can i know two stroke/four stroke engine when running at what speed runs camshaft compare to crankshaft
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Member: er.raman86

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Post Date: 11/21/2013

sir can u please explain in detail the relationship between injection timing and fuel index ? and sir what is fuel index ? why we
cannot adjust the fuel index of individual fuel pump.
Thanks .
Reply

Member: sujit agawane

Sir,
can u please explain How to adjust Break point in B&W super VIT engines?
& sir How Break point is Fixed for old engines?????
Please reply sir
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Member: hamal

E.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMdaMdLZk_w
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Member: vikramrajagopal

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Post Date: 12/31/2013

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Post Date: 12/31/2013
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Post Date: 5/24/2014

Sir what is mean by knuckle point in load up program is it related to VIT.Could you please share your view on this topic.
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Member: satyam

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Post Date: 8/16/2014

onboard my ship suddenly VIT stopped working. as the VIT pressure which was showing 0.9 bar in ahead direction at 110
rpm. we tried to troubleshoot the VIT system, we suspect valve 40. and still we need expert help... to troubleshoot....plz
help....
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