House Hearing, 111TH Congress - Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations For 2010

AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD
AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED

AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2010
HEARINGS
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
SUBCOMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD AND
DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED AGENCIES
ROSA L. DELAURO, Connecticut, Chairwoman
SAM FARR, California
ALLEN BOYD, Florida
SANFORD D. BISHOP, JR., Georgia
LINCOLN DAVIS, Tennessee
MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio
MAURICE D. HINCHEY, New York
JESSE L. JACKSON, JR., Illinois
JACK KINGSTON, Georgia

TOM LATHAM, Iowa
JO ANN EMERSON, Missouri
RODNEY ALEXANDER, Louisiana
NOTE: Under Committee Rules, Mr. Obey, as Chairman of the Full Committee, and Mr. Lewis, as Ranking
Minority Member of the Full Committee, are authorized to sit as Members of all Subcommittees.
MARTHA FOLEY, LESLIE BARRACK, CLIFF ISENBERG, and MATT SMITH,

Staff Assistants
PART 3
Page
Domestic Nutrition Programs ..............................................

Department of Agriculture ....................................................
Testimony of Members of Congress ....................................
Secretary of Agriculture ........................................................
smartinez on DSKB9S0YB1PROD with HEARING
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PART 3AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION,

AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2010

AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED
AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2010
HEARINGS
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
SUBCOMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD AND
DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED AGENCIES
ROSA L. DELAURO, Connecticut, Chairwoman
ALLEN BOYD, Florida
MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio

TOM LATHAM, Iowa
NOTE: Under Committee Rules, Mr. Obey, as Chairman of the Full Committee, and Mr. Lewis, as Ranking
Minority Member of the Full Committee, are authorized to sit as Members of all Subcommittees.
MARTHA FOLEY, LESLIE BARRACK, CLIFF ISENBERG, and MATT SMITH,

Staff Assistants
PART 3
Page
Domestic Nutrition Programs ..............................................

Department of Agriculture ....................................................
Testimony of Members of Congress ....................................
Secretary of Agriculture ........................................................
Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
53443
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DAVID R. OBEY, Wisconsin, Chairman
JOHN P. MURTHA, Pennsylvania
NORMAN D. DICKS, Washington
ALAN B. MOLLOHAN, West Virginia
MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio
PETER J. VISCLOSKY, Indiana
NITA M. LOWEY, New York
E. SERRANO, New York
JOSE
ROSA L. DELAURO, Connecticut
JAMES P. MORAN, Virginia
JOHN W. OLVER, Massachusetts
ED PASTOR, Arizona
DAVID E. PRICE, North Carolina
CHET EDWARDS, Texas
PATRICK J. KENNEDY, Rhode Island
LUCILLE ROYBAL-ALLARD, California
CAROLYN C. KILPATRICK, Michigan
ALLEN BOYD, Florida
CHAKA FATTAH, Pennsylvania
STEVEN R. ROTHMAN, New Jersey
MARION BERRY, Arkansas
BARBARA LEE, California
ADAM SCHIFF, California
MICHAEL HONDA, California
BETTY MCCOLLUM, Minnesota
STEVE ISRAEL, New York
TIM RYAN, Ohio
C.A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland
BEN CHANDLER, Kentucky
DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida
CIRO RODRIGUEZ, Texas
JOHN T. SALAZAR, Colorado
JERRY LEWIS, California

C. W. BILL YOUNG, Florida
HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky
FRANK R. WOLF, Virginia
RODNEY P. FRELINGHUYSEN, New
Jersey
TODD TIAHRT, Kansas
ZACH WAMP, Tennessee
TOM LATHAM, Iowa
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama
KAY GRANGER, Texas
MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho
JOHN ABNEY CULBERSON, Texas
MARK STEVEN KIRK, Illinois
ANDER CRENSHAW, Florida
DENNIS R. REHBERG, Montana
JOHN R. CARTER, Texas
KEN CALVERT, California
JO BONNER, Alabama
STEVEN C. LATOURETTE, Ohio
TOM COLE, Oklahoma
BEVERLY PHETO, Clerk and Staff Director
(II)
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AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR
2010
THURSDAY, MARCH 12, 2009.
DOMESTIC NUTRITION PROGRAMS
WITNESSES
THOMAS OCONNOR, ACTING DEPUTY UNDER SECRETARY, FOOD, NUTRITION, AND CONSUMER SERVICES, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
KELLY D. BROWNELL, Ph.D., PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, EPIDEMIOLOGY AND PUBLIC HEALTH, AND DIRECTOR OF THE RUDD CENTER FOR FOOD POLICY AND OBESITY, YALE UNIVERSITY
LYNN PARKER, MEMBER, COMMITTEE ON NUTRITION STANDARDS
FOR FOODS IN SCHOOLS, FOOD AND NUTRITION BOARD, INSTITUTE
OF MEDICINE, THE NATIONAL ACADEMIES
OPENING REMARKS
Ms. DELAURO. The committee is called to order. My apologies for
being late.
The Budget Committee met today as well, but it was an interesting exchange because the Secretary of Education was there, and
we had an opportunity to talk about school nutrition in that context, as well as having an opportunity to be here with all of you
today.
Let me just say thank you to everyone, and to welcome you this
afternoon, especially to our witnesses, Mr. OConnor, Acting Deputy Under Secretary for Food, Nutrition and Consumer Services;
Kelly Brownell from Yale Universitys Rudd Center for Food Policy
and Obesity; and Lynn Parker, representing the Food and Nutrition Board, the Institute of Medicine and the National Academies.
I truly do; and we are all grateful to you for taking the time to be
with us today to share your experience, to share your insight on
what is a critical issue going forward for this Nation.
If I might just take a second, I would like to welcome the newest
member of our subcommittee, and that is Congressman Lincoln
Davis, who is from Tennessee. He not only sits on the Appropriations Committee, he is a former member of the Ag Committee, Financial Services and served on the Science Committee.
So delighted to have you and your experience in this effort, Mr.
Davis. So, welcome.
Mr. DAVIS. It is a pleasure. Thanks.
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Ms. DELAURO. Let me also welcome back all of the subcommittee
members. We come together today with a comprehensive agenda
for the year ahead to try to build on all that we tried to achieve
in the last Congress. And last year we convened the six budget
hearings or the regular budget proceedings, and through the work
of the subcommittee we worked hard to increase resources and improve management at the agencies under our jurisdiction in an effort to provide some what we regarded as needed reform.
We called numerous oversight hearings on drug safety, food safety, rural development and the impact of the speculation on oil and
food prices, all a part, if you will, of a mission to highlight and to
pursue critical questions in public health, consumer safety and economic growth.
I have enjoyed working together with my colleague, the ranking
member, Mr. Kingston, from Georgia. I look forward to collaborating with you, Jack, and the entire subcommittee in our months
ahead.
We will be writing a new appropriations bill and working to preserve and strengthen our rural communities, support local businesses pushed to the brink by the spiraling economy, protect public
health, address safety and think big about problems like energy
and other issues that are here today; but we need to think beyond
that in what is coming up.
So we begin today with a hearing on public health, the first in
a series on nutrition where I hope we can look at fighting hunger,
making nutritious food accessible and exploring the Federal Governments responsibility.
For decades, our Nations nutrition programs under the Department of Agriculture have been a big part of our social safety net,
providing children and low-income families with access to quality
food; and over the last year we have made progress. With the farm
bill, we took critical steps after years of erosion in food stamp benefits, increasing the standard deduction from $134 to $144, then indexing it to inflation. And we worked out increasing the minimum
benefit to $14 from $10, where it had been frozen for the last 30
years, and then indexing that to inflation as well.
The fact is, one in five Americans is affected by nutrition programs under the Food and Nutrition Service at USDA. We have to
ask ourselves in terms of where we want to try to go today. Are
we using the USDA as a positive force for change? Are we doing
families and children good? Or are we contributing to their poor
nutrition, their obesity and other health-related problems? Do we
understand the full consequences of our choices not only from specific programs like WIC or the school lunch or breakfast program,
but also when it comes to our far-reaching subsidy policies?
The latest statistics are overwhelming. Two-thirds of adults are
overweight today. The trend lines are not promising. In the past
20 years the percentage of adolescents who are overweight has
more than tripled, and the habits most people take up as children
and in school stay with them their whole lives. Diabetes and other
dangerous health problems are on the rise, costing our economy
millions.
So with this hearing we are going to look at, or begin to look at,
and probe the answers to what role can the Congress play in fight-
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ing hunger, combating obesity, improving nutrition. In particular,
this subcommittee: How can we apply the power of the purse to
bring change? What is the administrations current proposal? Will
it make an impact in charting a new course? Are our policies contributing to poor nutrition and obesity?
According to the Center for Science in the Public Interest, the
food industry spends about $10 billion a year marketing food to
children. Considering their significant influence and control, can
we succeed in any significant behavioral change? Can we exercise
controls or influence in this direction in the way that we did with
cigarette smoking? What place should competitive foods, which are
not required to meet any significant nutrition standards, have in
our schools? How can we collaborate with the Department of
Health and Human Services and the Department of Education?
I read an article where Alice Waters says that the Department
of Education should put up funding for the school nutrition piece
as well as Agriculture. So how do we make the dietary guidelines
stronger and meet good nutritional values?
For our witnesses: If you would make any changes, what would
they be? From WIC to SNAP to the school lunch program there are
many powerful tools that we have, and we have used them to
achieve a lot of good over the years; but in fact, I believe we have
lacked coordination and long-term vision to take full advantage of
their potential. Our question, going forward, is how to get all these
programs working together effectively in the same direction. How
do we harness their reach and their impact and apply it to a larger
and a more comprehensive campaign to strengthen healthy diets,
healthy weights and active lifestyles? The Agriculture appropriations bill and the Child Nutrition and WIC reauthorization bill will
be important next steps.
I thank our witnesses for participating this afternoon. I look forward to your testimony.
In dire economic times like these, families and children should
never be forced to choose between securing healthy food for their
children and providing health care, shelter and the other basics
they need just to get by. For many families, the USDAs nutrition
programs make the difference. Now is our opportunity to make
them better.
And with that, let me ask Ranking Member Mr. Kingston if he
would like to make an opening statement.
Mr. KINGSTON. No, I do not, Madam Chair. I dont know if anybody else does, but I will certainly yield back.
Ms. DELAURO. What I will ask our witnesses to do now is to
make their statements. You understand fully that your remarks, in
toto, will be in the Congressional Record, so if you can summarize
your remarks, that would be appreciated, and then we can move
to a dialogue.
I will say this: This committee likes to have a dialogue, so it is
not stovepiped here. What we hope to do is to engage you, to engage with one another and us to be able to engage with you on
these issues.
Mr. OConnor.
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OPENING STATEMENT
Mr. OCONNOR. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and
members of the Subcommittee, for the opportunity to be here
today. I am the Acting Deputy Under Secretary for the Food, Nutrition and Consumer Services.
When I joined FNCS over 30 years ago, I joined a group of dedicated colleagues committed to filling the agencys primary mission,
which is the eradication of hunger and malnutrition in America.
Galvanized by the revelation of the terrible hunger problems that
existed in the 1960s, Congresses and Administrations ever since,
working in a bipartisan fashion, have assembled a nutrition safety
net that has achieved remarkable success combating hunger.
Hunger remains a significant problem in the United States. It no
longer is of the magnitude that it was before these programs were
established. The 15 programs administered by USDA are a safety
net that responds to changing economic conditions, expanding and
contracting as needed. We see this at work right now as our programs reach all-time highs in participation to serve those currently
experiencing economic hardship.
Hunger is not the only nutrition challenge that the Nation faces.
Over the past decade, the number of people who are overweight
and obese has increased significantly. The evidence is clear and
overwhelming that this problem is reaching epidemic proportions
and cuts across all populations of our Nation. The latest data from
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that 66 percent of adults are overweight, as you pointed out, and 32 percent
of those are obese. Even more alarming, almost one in five children
in adolescence is overweight.
While there is no evidence that singles out any particular group
as more prone to this problem than another, the fact that our program served one in five Americans during the course of a year positions us to play a part in addressing this alarming health trend.
The reasons why people are overweight and obese are straightforward: We eat too much, we exercise too little. But effecting
changes in those behaviors that need to be made are not easy.
However, we are committed to doing all that we can to encourage
people to change behaviors.
Our Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion created My Pyramid, the most recognized nutrition icon in the world, and through
MyPyramid.gov, which has had over 7 billion hits100 million
each monthand related products, we are continually trying to
educate the general population about good nutrition and healthy
lifestyles.
Within our programs we have expanded nutrition education efforts dramatically, spending more than $750 million in 2008, improved the qualities of foods provided in school meals and the commodity programs, in part by providing more fruits and vegetables,
and we have updated and improved the nutritional value of the
WIC food packages. We have initiated public awareness campaigns
in English and in Spanish to provide a broad reach for our nutrition messages, and we are testing ways to use initiatives at the
point of purchase to change peoples buying habits.
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There is no magic bullet to solving the epidemic of overweight

and obesity. There is no one answer, no one agencys issue to address, nor indeed is it just the governments role alone. The problem didnt appear overnight, and it wont be solved overnight.
But like the fight against hunger, we can achieve success in the
fight against obesity. It takes commitment, perseverance, creativity, collaboration and partnership across all levels of government; and with the private sector, USDA is committed to being a
part of the solution and responding to the challenge as it did and
continues to do in addressing the challenges of hunger.
Madam Chairwoman, I appreciate the opportunity to make this
presentation and would be happy to answer any questions that you
or your colleagues may have.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much.
[The information follows:]
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Ms. DELAURO. Dr. Brownell.
Mr. BROWNELL. Thank you for the invitation to address the committee. I appreciate all the leadership on public health issues. My
name is Kelly Brownell and I am a professor of psychology at Yale
University, former Chair of the Department of Psychology, Director
of the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity.
I begin today with several points regarding the role that food
plays in modern life and how our relationship with food has
evolved and how important the USDA can be as a force for change.
I often begin talks before an audience by showing a list of ingredients for common food and having the audience guess what food
that is. And if you see my written testimony, you will see the list
of ingredients on this particular food, which is 48 items strong. And
the fact that food can have 48 different things in it shows how different our relationship with food has become.
It used to bethere was a time that if we had such a thing as
food labels there would have been one thing on it. It would have
the food. It would have been an orange, lettuce, an apple, whatever; and now we have many, many ingredients.
We dont really know what most of these things do to us. There
is interesting research that has come out recently on the possible
addictive nature of some ingredients of food. But that aside, our relationship with food has become physically distant and psychologically distant; and changing this situation I think could take us
very far down the road of improving public health.
Now it so happens that this list of ingredients sums up to be a
Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Pop Tart, but those 40 things could
be mixed in different ways to produce lots of foods that are in the
food environment. But the fact that we dont really know what is
going into the foods that we eat and we are so far from the food
and who creates it, a number of problems have developed from
them.
One could actually ask if some of these things should be called
a foodMichael Pollan has written about thisand one could legitimately ask whether a product should be called a food, not because we eat them necessarily, but are they found in nature? Do
they create metabolic havoc once they enter the body? Do they
interfere with life expectancy or promote it? And these things are
really very interesting questions, and beyond the scope of what we
are talking about today, but they do show our changed relationship
with food.
When we talk about food and our vision of what is acceptable to
eat, it is shaped tremendously by the food industry. We have been
trained as a nation to believe that you can throw vitamins in
water, sugar water, and that it is a healthy thing to take in. We
have been trained to believe that something doesnt have to have
fruit in it to bear fruit in its name.
A number of things like this have occurred that talk to the power
of marketing. And foods marketed, much like alcohol and tobacco,
become attractive in part because they are associated with being
cool, fun, athletic, popular, et cetera. And you will see how often,
if you pay attention to food marketinghow seldom, that isthe
properties of the food themselves are measured. Very seldom do we
hear that the food tastes good or that it does something good for
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us; it is mainly about its associated properties. So change in this
system wont be easy. Food policy is affected by factors deeply
woven in the economics and politics of our country.
I am very heartened by Secretary Vilsacks comments about nutrition being at the heart of agriculture policy, which I think represents a significant change and could take us down some very
good roads. I would like to mention also the possibility of considering guiding philosophy: As we are going ahead with changing nutrition to affect public health is there a way to put all of this together into a central philosophy?
And I would like to introduce the concept that the economists use
called optimal defaults; and the basic idea there is that you can
create changes in the environment that make healthy behavior the
default rather than unhealthy behavior the default. And there are
stunning examples of the success of these approaches.
I will just use one in the health area unrelated to nutrition. It
has to do with the percentage of people who agree to be organ donors in different countries. European countries break down about
60/40 percent into those that use the U.S. model, where you are not
an organ donor by default, but you can choose to be one versus
countries where you are an organ donor by default, but you can opt
out if you wishthe same set of choices under both circumstances,
just the default differs.
And the rates are remarkably different of organ donation. In the
countries that use the U.S. model, where you are not one by default, about 15 percent of people agree to be organ donors; in the
countries where you are a donor by default, it is 98 percent.
Now, that is a startling difference; and one could imagine if you
tried to accomplish that with education, you could do an educational campaign. With unlimited money, you could never get that
number up to 98 percent or you could just change the default.
And so the question is, are there nutrition equivalents of this?
Are there optimal defaults that can be created in the nutrition environment in order to help make healthy behavior the default rather than the opposite? And now, with portion sizes so large, marketing as it is, unhealthy foods priced to be more accessible than
healthy options, there are a number of factors that bear down on
people to make poor choices the default.
Now, we could use food marketing as an example here. If we
added together all the government programs that deal with nutrition education and see what it summed tolets say 100 million,
lets say 500 million, whatever it happened to bethe food industry
spends that in the month of January to basically convince people
to eat unhealthy foods, with a few exceptions, but mainly that is
the casesugared cereals, soft drinks, fast food, candy and the like.
And much of this advertising is directed to children. So that creates an unhealthy default.
As long as that marketing is out there, to the extent it is, it is
hard to imagine the population eating a healthy diet.
But, of course, there are many other things that can be done as
well. So the question is, what role can USDA play in this? I would
like to break down my remaining comments into ways that existing
programs might be strengthened and then discuss a few new initiatives that my colleagues and I thought about.
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First, in terms of strengthening existing programs, I would like
to talk first about children and schools. First is the issue of what
shouldnt be in schools. The list of competitive foods that exist now
is much too lax; tightening up the standards would be a big help
in terms of school nutrition, and the Institute of Medicine has excellent standards that could be used to guide those decisions.
Next is the issue of what needs to be in schools. The Fruit and
Vegetable Program administered by the Department of Defense is
an excellent start and can be strengthened even beyond where it
is now. Better financing for breakfast and lunch programs would
give the opportunity for schools to buy healthier foods rather than
rely on the low-cost, unhealthier options.
Locking in school wellness policies would also be an excellent
thing to do. In the 2004 Child Nutrition Reauthorization Act,
school districts were required to develop school wellness policies;
and colleagues of mine at the Rudd Center, Drs. Marlene Schwartz
and Katherine Henderson, have done excellent work to find out
that the school wellness policies do matter and that the school districts with stronger policies tend to have better nutrition practices,
as well as other practices related to health.
Next, I would like to talk about the Child and Adult Care Food
Program, CACFP. Those programs could be strengthened by having
higher nutrition standards. Both pertain to what is allowed and
what is not allowed in the programs.
Next, on the WIC and food stamp front, of course, a tremendous
opportunity here to improve things. I would encourage less emphasis on direct education, although education sounds like a good
thing, and we all believe in it, and it seems like a pretty good idea;
but there is not a lot of evidence suggesting that education is having the desired impact or that it is worth the money spent on it.
And so the question is, do we try to educate our way out of
unhealthy diets or do we do things like changing defaults? And an
example of this, a real-world example, would be New York City
where the health commissioner and the Department of Health
passed a regulation that forbids restaurants to have trans fats in
the restaurant foods.
Now, again, you could try to accomplish that with education and
never get to the goal or you can just change the default: You get
rid of the trans fats.
And so, again, I go back to the question, in WIC and food stamps,
can we create better defaults? And then I will end with the following.
Is that my cue to stop?
Ms. DELAURO. No.
Mr. BROWNELL. Okay.
Ms. DELAURO. Keep going.
Mr. BROWNELL. I am almost done anyway.
And then another thing that could be improved with WIC and
food stamp programs is, the USDA has pretty strict rules on what
States can say about specific foods. And Statesand we have
talked to some people in some States who feel hamstrung by not
being able to produce written materials that say people should eat
less of anything in particular. So they cant recommend, for example, that people should drink less sugared beverages or eat less fast
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food or eat fewer french fries or things like that, because of this
censoring rule. And if that could be changed, it would provide more
flexibility for States to be more aggressive with the messages they
give people.
Position of and reimbursement for better foods within those programs would be helpful, too.
In terms of new initiatives, I would recommend several things.
One is, I would like to see somewhere in government a commission
established that would simultaneously address hunger, obesity and
the environmental consequences of modern food practices. These
are all very pressing issues. Depending on who you talk to, hunger
is a major problem, obesity is a major problem, the environmental
degradation produced by modern food practices is a problem. But
these worlds of people very seldom interact, and sometimes even
have competing needs.
An example would be the green revolution which has helped feed
the environmental world, but at an environmental cost. And so, are
there ways that these worlds could come together and we could create win-win-win for hunger, obesity and sustainability issues? I believe there can be, but again, these worlds arent talking very
much.
I would recommend a great deal more emphasis on farm-toschool programs; and this, apropos of Chairwoman DeLauros comments about Alice Waters, who has championed this issue. Children, because of the way they are raised in the United States now,
have very little relationship with food. Fewer and fewer people
know how to cook these days. You have schools that arent doing
a very good job teaching kids nutrition; and so strengthening those
programs would be a big help.
And then I will end with recommendations for two studies I
would recommend the IOM, the Institute of Medicine, be commissioned to do. One would be a study on the economic and health impact of farm subsidies. There is a lot of debate about farm subsidies
now. Michael Pollan and others have written about it extensively.
And as I talk to my economist friend, I get the sense that this a
far more complex topic than one might see if you just read the
press.
And it is not a simple issue of corn farmers get subsidies, and
therefore, we are helping drive obesity; but it is actually a very
complicated topic that deserves the sort of thoughtful analysis that
the Institute of Medicine could provide. So I would like to see that
with some specific recommendations about how subsidy programs
might be harnessed in order to improve health.
And then, second, I would recommend the Institute of Medicine
be commissioned to do a study on the impact of food prices and access, especially in vulnerable populations, on ultimate diet and
health and whether we can change food prices and access in a way
that helps these vulnerable populations maintain their health.
Thank you very much.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Dr. Brownell.
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Ms. DELAURO. Ms. Parker, that was a vote, as you know, so we
will hear your testimony and then we will sort ourselves out from
there.
Ms. PARKER. Thank you. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and
members of the committee. Thanks for the opportunity to be with
you here today.
My name is Lynn Parker, and I am a scholar at the Institute of
Medicine at the National Academies. Prior to coming to the Institute of Medicine, I was a member of the Committee on Nutrition
Standards for Foods in Schools at the Institute of Medicine, so was
involved with that committee in writing the report that I am going
to talk about todayNutrition Standards for Foods in Schools:
Leading the Way Toward a Healthier Youth.
The Institute of Medicine was established in 1970 under a charter with the National Academies to provide independent, objective
and evidence-based advice to policymakers, to health professionals,
the private sector and to the public.
In 2005, in the wake of the rising rate of obesity and also the
increasing availability of high-calorie, low-nutrient foods in schools
that were being served and offered in competition with the school
lunch and breakfast programs, Congress directed the Centers for
Disease Control to undertake a study with the Institute of Medicine to review the evidence and make recommendations about what
would be the appropriate nutrition standards for foods that are offered in competition with the reimbursable school lunch and breakfast programs.
The need for such standards is simple, and I think people have
already sort of talked a little bit about that. While we have federally reimbursed school meals that have to meet nutrition standards, the competitive foods that are offered in competition with
those meals do not have to conform to very much of a standard at
all. It is a very limited standard; and some people are surprised to
hear that these foods only have to meet less thanthe only foods
that are prohibited are those that have less than 5 percent of eight
key nutrients.
So we are talking about foods that are very low in nutrients that
are actually being prohibited from being served in competition with
school meals. And also, the only control is around the cafeteria and
during the meal period, so anything that happens before or after
a meal period or anything that happens nearby the cafeteria is
okay.
To begin the process of developing these recommendations we developed a list of guiding principles to guide us in our work. And
we wanted those guiding principles to lead us to creating a healthful eating environment for children in the United States. And I
want tothere were several guiding principles, and they are in my
testimony, but I just wanted to tell you a couple of them so you
can see sort of where we were coming from.
We said that schools contribute to the current and lifelong health
and dietary patterns of children. Children are there all day long,
5 days a week a significant part of the year; and schools, because
of that, are uniquely positioned to model and reinforce healthful
eating behaviors among children. And we also said, in partnership
with parents, teachers and the broader community.
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Also, we all agree that foods and beverages offered in the school
campus should contribute to the overall healthy eating environment and to the long-term healthful eating habits of children and
serve a basis for their habits in the future. And we looked at both
the dietary guidelines as a guide for what we did and also other
pertinent scientific information that is available.
So, drawing on the Dietary Guidelines and the scientific data describing the current dietary intake of school-age children, what we
found was that children are notand this wont surprise youare
not eating enough fruits and vegetables, are not eating enough
whole grains and are not drinking enough or eating enough low fat
and nonfat dairy foods and beverages. And the Dietary Guidelines
urge us to promote those four kinds of foods to children and encourage their consumption.
So ultimately what weand I am going to put my glasses on
nowwhat we recommended was that the foods that are offered in
competition with the school meals ought to be those foods that represent fruits and vegetables, whole grains and low fat and nonfat
dairy products.
We organized our competitive foods listcompetitive foods and
beverages list into two tiers to make a distinction about when certain foods should be allowed to be provided. Tier 1 foods were those
foods that we felt should be offered during the day, if a school
chooses to offer competitive foods during the school day; and those
foods include fruits and vegetables, whole grains, nonfat and low
fat dairy products. And to give you some examples of the kinds of
foods we are talking about, they would be things like apples, carrot
sticks, raisins, some multigrain tortilla chips, granola bars and
nonfat yogurt with limited added sugars.
The second tier of foods that we recommended were those that
meet certain standards, certain nutritional criteriareduced fat,
saturated fat, additives and sodiumbut dont necessarily have the
full servings of fruits, vegetables, whole grains and so forth. And
we suggested that as an option after school in high schools.
So those of the guiding principles in those two tiers form the
basis of our recommended nutrition standards for competitive foods
and beverages. The standards have two objectives: to encourage
consumption of healthful foods and beverages and to limit the consumption of dietary components like fat, saturated fat, sodium and
added sugars that either fall outside the recommendations of the
Dietary Guidelines or are just not optimal for the diets or health
of school-age children.
These standards are intended to ensure that competitive foods,
snacks and beverages complement the School Lunch Program and
meals and that they contribute to the development of lifelong eating patterns. In other words, if schools decide that they want to
serve foods in competition with school lunch and breakfast, those
foods should complement the School Lunch and Breakfast Programs and their goals, not compete with the School Lunch and
Breakfast Programs and their goals. Those foods should be moving
children toward the Dietary Guidelines and meeting the Dietary
Guidelines rather than moving them away from meeting the Dietary Guidelines.
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One of the major purposes of the School Lunch and Breakfast

Programs and their nutrition standards is to provide children with
a diet and with meals at school that meet the Dietary Guidelines.
The committee also recommended that the standards apply
throughout the school campus and throughout the school day so
that they are consistent throughout the day and that the message
that children are receiving, the offerings that are available to them
and what they are learning about what is best to be eating and
consuming, are consistent throughout the campus and throughout
the school day.
So, in conclusion, the committee looked at the traditional school
nutrition programs like breakfast and lunch as ones that are the
major source of nutrition for kids and that should be providing access to healthful foods. If a school decides to offer competitive foods,
then these offerings should encourage greater consumption of fruits
and vegetables, whole grains and nonfat and low fat dairy products.
It is our hope that as these recommendations are taken into account and implemented at the local, State and national level; that
they move our schools toward providing children with a model of
what good nutrition is; that they serve as a basis for kids understanding what a healthful diet consists of, so that they are available for them to consume and so that, as Kelly Brownell pointed
out earlier, they are the healthy default, they are the foods that are
available to kids.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify, and if you
have any questions about anything that I have said, I would be
glad to answer your questions.
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43
Ms. DELAURO. I think what we are going to do isthere are
about 4 minutes left in the vote and then there are two 5-minute
votes after that. I think, with the concurrence of the committee, the
subcommittee will just recess to go for the votes and then come
back. Then we will take up the questioning.
I beg your indulgence, but this is our way of life. Thank you.
[Recess.]
NUTRITION EDUCATION
Ms. DELAURO. We are going to get started. I know the other

members are coming back. Again our apologies, but lets get started
with questions.
Mr. OConnor, last years hearing I asked about funds that FNS
is spending on nutrition education. The FNS estimated that $788
million, Dr. Brownell, it is not 100 million, it is 788, and that
doesnt include the State match money, which is somewhere near
another 300 million or so.
Over 95 percent of the funding is payment to State agencies,
$305 million to food stamp agencies, 445 to WIC. About $19 million, as I understand it, goes to support nutrition education in
schools.
I am going to get my couple of questions out here and then give
you time to answer and to interact.
We need an overview of FNS programs and what you are currently doing on nutrition education that deals with the obesity
issue. I am going to get right to the chase here. There is a 50 percent match from State, again which increases the total amount of
the program. But my question is how do we know that we are getting anywhere with this nutrition education? What feedback do we
get? What specific types of nutrition education are States implementing?
I know you did some messaging last December on messages that
work. Who analyzed it? What does it say? What is getting through?
What changes should we be making on nutrition education to make
it more effective? My question is, is $19 million enough for schools?
So that series of questions, this is the Appropriations Committee.
We are sending this money this way. What is happening to it?
Then I have a follow-up question. When you answer this one, I
also want to get the other two panelists to answer it. Your testimony talks about, and I quote, concerns about the role of nutrition
assistance and causing weight gain. USDA is not aware of any convincing evidence that school meals or other Federal nutrition assistance programs cause obesity or overweight. The evidence that
does exist is mixed. That is a quote from your testimony.
So with regard to that, when you address that I am going to ask
Mr. Brownell and Ms. Parker whether or not they agree with that
statement. Do they think there is any relationship to our nutrition
assistance programs or the commodity programs and causing
weight gain. So let me ask you to address the issues of our nutrition education programs and analysis of those efforts and their effectiveness.
Mr. OCONNOR. To the first question, where is the money going
and what do we know about what we are getting back from it, we
know that in the SNAP program, for example, where most of the
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money is going that you were just describing, where there is a
State match, 52 of the State agencies have nutrition education programs that we are participating in the funding in. This is up over
the last several years when there were many fewer
Ms. DELAURO. What is the effectiveness of the program?
Mr. OCONNOR. The effectiveness is something that we are still
trying to assess.
Ms. DELAURO. How?
Mr. OCONNOR. We have a new reporting requirement that we
just put into effect, where we are going to be able to through collecting that information know better what all of the States are
doing, and we are going to be sponsoring some projects looking at
effectiveness to make sure that we can share what one State is
doing that is effective with other States so that we can try to promulgate effective interventions from place to place to place.
Ms. DELAURO. What is the timing on that?
Mr. OCONNOR. I believe we are about 2 years away from the results of that coming back in. So in the meantime
Ms. DELAURO. We are 2 years away?
Mr. OCONNOR. Right, in terms of trying to assess the effectiveness of what the State efforts are. In the meantime we have been
doing some things well. We are trying to get folks to focus around
certain common messages. We have recently put out some core nutrition messages because we know that one of the ways we can try
to get behavioral changes that I was talking about is to continually
have messages resonate from various places. So if we can get folks
to try to have the same message carried in various ways, then we
can try to have more effective
Ms. DELAURO. Tell me about the messages that were tested last
December. I run for office every 2 years. So does my colleague Mr.
Kingston and Mr. Farr. We deal with messages all the time, what
we say and what we do. If we waited, if we waited the amount of
time to figure out what messages work or dont work, it would be
a cold day in you know what before we got here.
What happened in December.
Mr. OCONNOR. Those are the messages that we put out to the
State agencies. They are now using those messages. They have
been accepted by the States and they are incorporating those into
the nutrition education programs that they are running for the clientele.
Ms. DELAURO. We are running on empty. Is it an old Jackson
Browne? We are running on empty here, and years before we get
to what we need to do in an age of unbelievable technology and
ability to follow up.
The red light is here, but I do want to have Mr. Brownell and
Ms. Parker comment about that quote from Mr. OConnors testimony about role of nutrition assistance and causing weight gain,
USDA is not aware of any convincing evidence that school meals
or other Federal and nutrition assistance programs cause obesity
and overweight. The evidence that does exist is mixed. I ask for
your comment on the earlier commentary as well as on this.
Ms. Parker.
Ms. PARKER. Lets see, let me answer in a couple of ways if that
is okay. One is in terms of nutrition education we dont really have
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a recent report at the Institute of Medicine on the effective nutrition education or what works best, but we do have several reports
on obesity prevention and childhood obesity prevention. And when
we looked at that issue what we found was that the environment
in which children are affects whether they become obese or not.
There are connections between environment and obesity both for
children and adults.
And my point is this, that nutrition education by itself is not
going to take you all the way. You really need to look at and make
it possible for people to act on what they have learned. You have
to make it possible for children to act on what they have learned.
If a child is at a school where competitive foods are being served
that are high in fat and sodium, you are teaching them one thing
and in then changing it around. If you tell kids they should be
physically active and try to encourage them through nutrition education, which physical activity is part of nutrition, but if there is
no physical education in school, if kids cant walk to school because
it is dangerous, if the whole build environment around them, if the
fast food restaurant is one block away perhaps from their school
and there is no labeling there, those are all potential situations in
which it is very difficult for people to act.
If a mother learns that she should be having low fat meats and
low fat dairy, but not a store in her neighborhood that provides
those products because there is no major grocery store, she cant
act on it.
So I guess I want to throw in the idea that along with nutrition
education we have to be thinking about also changing the environment in which people are so they can act on what they learned.
And then on the issue of food programs and obesity we havent
done that analysis, but speaking from a personal perspective I have
looked at the literature and other research that I have done outside
of my work at the Institute of Medicine, and I would agree with
the USDA analysis and both at ERS and FNS that the literature
is mixed but overall there does not seem to be a connection betweenright now in the scientific literature it is not clear that
there is any connection between obesity and the nutrition programs.
The one thing I would say is that when I was talking about competitive foods, people often dont realize school lunch is a program
that has portion size control, that it has to meet certain nutrition
standards, but there are other things that are being sold and offered to children at the same time. When people walk into a cafeteria, they dont realize that a lot of the foods that are provided are
foods that are outside of the lunch program that are sold and there
is vending machines and student stores and snack bars. So there
is a lot of, again, in terms of the environment in which kids are,
and in the environment in which school lunch and breakfast are it
is a pretty difficult environment to provide kids with a nutritious
meal.
Mr. BROWNELL. Three reactions, number one is the question
about whether these programs are helping drive obesity I believe
comes in the context of critics of these programs using this as an
excuse for wanting to cut them back. I do not believe there is suffi-
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cient evidence to justify that point of view. There is plenty of evidence, anecdotal and just common sense, that would suggest that
the programs could be doing more to help the obesity problem. So
going forward, that certainly becomes the more important question.
Second is the issue of nutrition education. There is a long history
of nutrition education affecting things other than behavior, like
they affect knowledge and attitudes about food, but you dont get
too many nutrition education programs that actually change behavior. And I really support the spirit of what the USDA is doing, but
unless they are doing something different than everybody else has
been doing for years and years and years, it will take 2 years to
find the inevitable, that these things have unsatisfying results.
Now I hope that is wrong, and God bless them if they can pull it
off, but it would be different than anything else that has happened
in the past. That is why I believe that changing the default conditions is more important than education.
So back to the point Lynn made, if there were zoning ways to get
mini markets and fast food restaurants and the Dunkin Donuts out
of the range where kids can walk from a school, that would probably be more helpful than the education going on in school.
And then, second, the core messages that Mr. OConnor discussed. I am very much in favor of that in principle and I think
it is a very good idea. Unfortunately, I think the USDA for years
and years has existed in a political climate where there has been
great fear of offending the food industry. I havent seen the core
messages, but my guess is that they are probably not the most assertive in the world. The core messages that one is left with in that
political environment is focusing on encouraging people to eat more
of the good things rather than less of the bad things. You just cant
get to the goal line by doing that. You can talk about fruits and
vegetables all day long, but as long as there is soft drinks, fast
food, sugared cereals, candies, you have big trouble.
So to the extent that USDA, with the political climate, can
change and the USDA is empowered to be more assertive with
those core messages, I think that would be quite beneficial.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much. I want to yield to my colleague from Georgia. I would love to see if we can get the core messages and take a look at it. I think you made an interesting point,
both of you, in terms of the amount of the money we are spending
on education and the outcome. $788 million is not exactly chump
change. It is not the $10 billion or the money that the industry
spends, but it is certain maybe we can redirect some of that in
more effective ways.
[The information from USDA follows:]
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82
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Kingston.
Mr. KINGSTON. Dr. Brownell, just to jump on that last statement
because I think that moves in the direction I wanted to ask you
about, in terms of you said you just cant get there when you are
offering this stuff, they are maybe going to choose something less
nutritious. In your testimony you said that maybe you could give
a bonus for people on SNAP to buy certain foods in the right direction. But why not just eliminate some of this stuff, based on your
statement which I tend to agree with, why not just say this stuff
you cant do?
Mr. BROWNELL. I am totally in favor of what you just said.
Mr. KINGSTON. And then, Ms. Parker, why not say to a school 75
percent of your food has to be Tier I. Right now is there a split between Tier I and Tier II, a quota split?
Ms. PARKER. No. What is recommended in the standards is that
during the school day for all levels of schools that the Tier I is
what is in place, and then after school for high school students Tier
II can be allowed. The reason is to provide in a school setting the
best options for kids. That is sort of based on the way the committee approached the task in the beginning as what are the best
foods we can offer children and what are the foods that will be
most likely to represent what we want children to be eating. And
the thinking being from the evidence we know, they are not getting
enough fruits, vegetables, whole grains, low fat dairy, and so forth.
Mr. KINGSTON. Well, in terms of the big picture what is the split
between Tier I and Tier II consumption, in the mega picture?
Ms. PARKER. First of all, these standards are not in place right
now. It is recommendations.
Ms. DELAURO. It is a recommendation.
Mr. KINGSTON. But we dont know what the split is.
Ms. PARKER. If you were to look across the country, nobody has
donewell, there are some national it analyses, the HHS has
looked through their school health survey, they have some sense of
what is out there. And I suspect that what is out there is probably
the opposite. Kelly, you may have
Mr. BROWNELL. It is highly variable from school district to school
district and even from State to State.
OVERPAYMENTS IN SCHOOL MEAL PROGRAMS
Mr. KINGSTON. That may be some data that we need to get.

Another thing this committee has worked on is trying to merge
the Department of Education physical ed requirements with the
USDA nutrition requirements and we put in some report language
in our bill last year. A lot of that stuff kind of got caught in the
CR process. I am not sure what survived or what did not, but we
are aware of that and interested in that. And so any recommendations you may have are certainly welcome.
But I wanted to ask Mr. OConnor a question. In terms of last
year there was an audit that said 8, almost 9 percent of the funds
were improperly applied. $860 million, I think that is what it was
for the school year 2005 and 2006. What has the USDA done to address that?
Mr. OCONNOR. We will be looking at that in the upcoming
months. We have child nutrition reauthorization coming of course,
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and I have to defer to Secretary Vilsack on that in terms of what

is going to be put forth and whatever. But it is a difficult situation.
We know that there are tradeoffs that the schools have in terms
of the burdens that they put on people in order to be applying for
the school lunches. There are burdens that get put on them in
terms of policing them.
Having said that, those are not excuses for those kinds of issues
and stuff. We are taking it very seriously. We want to take an aggressive stance in terms of trying to deal with the issues, but we
have to do it in consonance with the realities of what happens in
the local areas and stuff.
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Mr. KINGSTON. There was a Senate hearing about it recently,
correct? I dont know if you attended that.
Mr. OCONNOR. I did not.
Mr. KINGSTON. They actually had that study which was done in
April of 2008 that showed some of the money, the schools reimbursement rate was higher than their cost. And it might be two different things, because the 860 million was an improper payment.
And then the other issue was the reimbursement to schools was
higher, and you have seen that chart. But the mean cost was $2.36
and the reimbursement rate was $2.51.
And I am out of time, but I would like, maybe we will get back
to that today, but if not, for the record.
Federal reimbursements are one of several important sources of funding for school
meals programs. These payments cover the cost of meals provided free to the lowestincome children, and portions of the cost for other meals. Remaining revenues are
provided by families in the form of cash payments for meals and other foods, and
through State and local contributions. USDAs most recent data indicate that Federal reimbursements represented just over half of all food service revenue in school
year 20052006.
USDA conducts a periodic study of the costs and revenues to schools that participate in school meals programs, to estimate the cost of producing meals and the ability of schools to cover these costs. Data from USDAs latest study shows that in
school year 20052006:
On average, school food service revenue was adequate to cover total reported
operational costs. School food authorities are required to manage on a non-profit
basis; most operated at a break-even level.
The Federal subsidy ($2.50, including cash and commodities) for a free lunch
exceeded the average reported cost ($2.28). The reported cost of producing a lunch
was less than the free subsidy in four out of five school districts; in the rest (typically smaller ones), the cost exceeded the subsidy.
Virtually all schools charge families less for a full price meal than the Federal
government provides for a free meal. Even when factoring in the limited reimbursement that USDA provides for these paid meals, schools collect only about 80 percent of the revenue that they get for free mealsabout 40 cents less per meal.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Farr.
CONSOLIDATING SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS
Mr. FARR. Thank you much, Madam Chair. I want to congratulate you on having this hearing. I hope we will have more because
I think this issue is too important for our Nation.
I represent the salad bowl capital of the world, the Salinas Valley, and I have been through a lot of the schools in that district.
I am just appalled at how little of the discussion here in Washington in hearings like this, which I believe have become just academic discussions, really have anything to do with what is happening on the school grounds. And what I have seen is that it has
been a dream for Americans to make sure that no child goes hungry and that we have good nutritional programs. But in the process
of getting there we probably have created the biggest bureaucracy
in the Federal Government in the child feeding program.
Many of my schools tell me that 80 percent of the cost of the programs is administration. If we had that in Social Security, we
would have 4 out of $5 in Social Security just in administrative
costs alone. It has turned into a nightmare. We dont even have
programs, school nutritional programs. There is not such thing.
What we have in the schools are the School Lunch Program, the
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School Breakfast Program, the Child and Adult Care Program, the
Summer Food Service Program, Special Milk Program, After School
Breakfast Program, Fresh Fruit and Vegetables Snack Program.
Every one of those programs is administered in a different silo.
In some cases you can qualify for many of them. But in most
cases you have to not only qualify to be in the program but each
program monitors whether each day you come and take that meal
and if you ate that meal, sort of a point of sale requirement. The
data and the computers that schools have had to buy just to account for that, rather than just feeding poor kids, it is just appalling.
And then what we find is that in some of our schools they dont
have kitchens, as they used to when we were little kids and they
made the food right there. They have these centers, or areas called
pack-out kitchens. And those pack-out kitchens receive commodities. Now schools are not preparing them, so it is no good getting
a big bag of wheat or big bag of corn. What these schools do is they
go through these processors to process that and give them products
they consume which essentially are packaged. And guess what happens in the process? Sugar and salt are added. So many of these
schools dont have anything added; they may get an apple on the
plate but the rest of it is all packaged and comes from commodities,
excess commodities which we in this program alone spend $638
million, buying soybeans, wheat corn, rice, the commodities, and
distributing them to the schools. And most of those pack-out kitchens are in urban schools and in our poorer schools.
So what I am shocked at is that nobody in all these years has
come to Congress and said, you have built a can of worms here,
this is nuts.
And I want to thank you for your 30 years of service, Mr. OConnor, but I am just really surprised to hear we are going to go reauthorization, we reauthorized the same old stuff, we are destined for
just failure. Because if all this money is being spent on people rather than on food and we are not spending it on the poor people, we
are spending it on just hiring staff and accounting.
So my question to you is instead of operating six separate feeding
programs in schools, cant we just boil that into one program called
school nutrition program? And then take all your other programs,
your food stamp program and your other programs you administer
in that, the special supplemental, the WIC program, commodities
assistance account, things like that, all those that are under food
nutrition, and move those into a community nutrition program and
cut out so much bureaucracy and start direct certification of children. We are doing that in California. We are told that we cant
use the Medicare tapes. If we could do that, some of my schools in
the direct certification, the direct certification is giving them names
of children who qualify for the program but whose parents have not
entered into it, many times because they cant speak English or
they dont know how to fill out the forms.
Why are we trying to pedal this program as being an effective
program when we have such a nightmarish administration?
Mr. OCONNOR. You put me in an awkward position, Mr. Farr.
I understand. I think the root answer or the answer to what you
are talking about really comes down to just making some funda-
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mental policy calls that Secretary Vilsack is going to have to be
taking a look at. I do know that the issue of having programs that
overlap and are competing, or whatever, is throughout this area as
well as some other areas and stuff.
Mr. FARR. Isnt it true that all those programs could be in the
same school on the same day and each one of them has to be accounted for differently?
Mr. OCONNOR. I dont know that they are all in the same school.
Mr. FARR. They could be.
Mr. OCONNOR. Oh, could they be? I think there could be a lot
more coordination between them, yes, for sure. There would have
to be changes in legislation.
Mr. FARR. Who makes those recommendations? Does the Department come forward in the reauthorization and say lets roll this
stuff into one and start using the smart data we have? We can
check every single person that is getting on an airplane in this
country and we do, every single person. And we know whether that
person is qualified to get on that airplane based on our background
check. And if they dont or are not qualified, then we dont see
them and they dont get on the plane. Now if we can do that for
every single traveler in this country, we certainly ought to be able
to pick out the poor children in the country, we have the data on
it.
Mr. OCONNOR. The requirements for participation in some of the
programs that you are talking about are different from one another.
Mr. FARR. Why?
Mr. OCONNOR. Excuse me?
Mr. FARR. Why? It is about feeding kids. We dont check those
kids when they get on the bus in the morning as to a means test.
We dont check those kids when they go into the school library and
check out a book, but damn it, if you are going into a cafeteria you
have to be pulled out. Im sorry, you dont qualify, you cant eat this
meal. Do you know what the teachers do or the administrators do?
They take the money out of their pocket. It is just nuts. We have
gotten into a class system in our School Lunch Program. And if you
wanted to, why havent we even implemented the USDAs and even
update the Web site to reflect the changes the Congress made in
the 2008 Farm Bill that will provide $1.2 billion in mandatory
money over the next year for fruits and vegetables? When is that
Web site going to be updated?
Mr. OCONNOR. I will have to get back to you on that, Mr. Farr.
I am sorry.
The Farm Bill Web site within the USDA Web site provides information that
summarize the fruit and vegetable provisions of the Farm Bill. This information is
provided at http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/Farmbill2008.
Mr. FARR. Well, I am really hopeful, Madam Chair, that we can

begin delving into, because this is the fiscal committee, and when
you look at it, to have all of these programs called child nutrition,
most of them in schools, I am sure that the WIC Program, the one
for Child and Adult Care Food Program might be better in a community service, but we have requirements thatfor example, the
breakfast program has very poor attendance. Why kids dont get up
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early, go to a cafeteria before they go to a class. We dont even do
that here in Congress. Most of us go right to our hearings. So if
we just change the policy that you could have that snack in the
classroom, you would have a lot more consumers of the food than
having them go through the cafeteria before they go to their classroom.
I think if we move to this direct certification and required all
States to implement a program like that, one, we would have a
much better accountability and we wouldnt have to get rid of this
paper trail. And in some cases we have to just assume that if a kid
is hungry and needs food that they ought to be able to get it. So
I am really concerned about these good recommendations.
The commodity programs alone, of which we slough off all this
excess to the schools and gets into these, in some cases this is all
the food the kids get. So if you had your test that every child in
the school nutrition program get access to leafy greens and to fruits
and vegetables, the answer is no, only some schools do. And so by
just piling on more here in Washington aint going to get it done
in the street. We have to start tackling this problem by assessing
the nutritional value school site by school site. Until we do that,
we are wasting a hell of a lot of money on trying to manage this
program.
That is my two cents, and then I have got to go to California to
get some fresh fruits and vegetables.
FRUITS AND VEGETABLES IN THE NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, Mr. Farr. And just so that
our panelists know, this is obviously an issue that Mr. Farr is
deeply passionate about. There isnt a hearing in which the whole
issue of the nutrition programs he doesnt focus on. We are going
to take a trip to the Department of Defense and to see those commodities, and see what we have, and see what is going to folks besides the fruits and vegetables which is a good piece, but we also
want to take a look at what was purchased in the final days last
year of the final administration, and what kind of product was purchased and what it means in terms of its nutritional value.
I would just say that Secretary Vilsack will be here next week
so that we will have an opportunity to talk with him about these
issues. Do you want a final comment?
Mr. FARR. If you could have for Secretary Vilsack next week
within this program, the Child Nutrition Program, of the amount
of money specifically that just goes for food purchase?
Mr. OCONNOR. Sure. We can try to do that, yes.
Mr. FARR. Not administrative costs, just food purchase.
Of the roughly $13.4 billion in mandatory funds available for Child Nutrition Programs in fiscal year 2007, about $13.2 billion was for food purchases and $163 million (1.2 percent) was provided for State Administrative Expenses. The administrative funds are used by State agencies to manage the program, rather than to support operations by schools and other local services providers. Federal support for
local administrative and other labor costs is provided thorough per meal reimbursements. Program operators primary responsibility is to provide nutritious meals in
a fully accountable manner given the revenues available to them from student fees,
USDA reimbursements and other sources. Within this mandate, they have considerable flexibility in how Federal funds are used. The latest study of meal costs in the
school meals programs found that administrative laborincluding planning, budg-
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eting, and management for the foodservice program, and other non-production activities such as maintenance of foodservice equipmentaccounted for less than 15
percent of total reported costs in 9 out of 10 school food authorities, with an average
of about 8 percent in School Year 200506.
COMPETITIVE FOODS
Ms. DELAURO. Okay.

Let me pick up on this competitive foods issue if I might, because
IOM released a report in 2007 and it talked about the competition
with the breakfast and the lunch program. And so we have a number of schools who dont regulate the nutrition quality of the foods
that are offered through these avenues.
Mr. OConnor, based on those IOM recommendations, and it is a
recommendation, what changes has the Department made in response to them? While we can regulate the nutrition standards
that are required through a federally reimbursable school nutrition
programs, and, Jack, I will just say to you that we can make a determination of what goes into that basket if you will. What are we
doing about what should the competitive foods that are offered in
school; should we make competitive foods the rules mandatory in
your view or should we leave it to the school districts to decide?
And I say, Mr. Brownell, your testimony says that USDA uses old
standards to define permissible competitive foods. What I would
want to ask you then, what do you mean by this? But should we
mandate on the competitive foods?
Mr. OCONNOR. I hate to sound like a broken record.
Ms. DELAURO. You are going to tell me that the Secretary has
to answer that question.
Mr. OCONNOR. I feel like I have to have a prepared statement
and read it each time. Those really are policy questions that I
think answers will be revealed when you are able to speak with the
Secretary about that.
Ms. DELAURO. And I will just say in regard to the Department,
and this is about 3 decades ago because I think this is important
to note, the Department tried to ban chips, cookies, and soft drinks
from schools, but they were thwarted by the courts and by food
companies. So that speaks volumes to me about what kind of direction that we need to try to go in.
I spoke to, I told you, to the Department of Education to the Secretary today, he banned those products in the Chicago schools. He
said he took a lot of heat for it, and he also felt that he was looking
at revenue that was coming into the schools and shutting it off. But
the tradeoff he felt was worth it to do that, but he was concerned
about the revenue that he was leaving behind. Now that is an issue
for how much we are funding our schools and what we are doing,
which is not the subject today.
Dr. Brownell, again there are actually two things. You said
USDA uses old standards to define permissible competitive foods.
You also say about the Child and Adult Care Food Program that
existing standards within the CACFP permits the use of meals of
poor nutrient quality. And if you could just respond, just comment.
Mr. BROWNELL. Well, for example, according to the current
USDA recommendations, there are things not allowed in schools
that are irrelevant, like cotton candy and breath mints, but things
that are allowed in schools like candy, french fries, chips, snack
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cakes, and the like. So that obviously is an aberration and should
be changed around. The IOM has good standards; it makes sense
to adopt those.
So I think there are good standards around, you can use common
sense to make half of these calls and probably get by just fine. But
one thing I would like to make a point of is that if we consider
schools a place that are a safe environment for our children, that
we then we have to consider nutrition safety, not with tainted food
as much as just poor nutritional quality food. So we would find
that the role of government to step in and be aggressive if the air
in the schools is making kids sick or if they were exposed to lead
paint and that was makingwell, the foods are making them sick.
And so in the call of the safety of schools, when parents let their
children go to schools, they turn them over with the assumption
that they are going to be treated in a safe and hospitable way.
With the food system that we have now, that is not the case necessarily. It is all the more reason for change.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. OConnor, those recommendations Ms. Parker
came out in 2007.
Ms. PARKER. The IOM report came out in April 2007.
Ms. DELAURO. Was there anything done with those recommendations vis-a-vis theI mean it is 2009 and I understand we have a
new Secretary, but they have been around since April of 2007. Was
there anything done with that material? Any conversations about
how to take those recommendations and put them to some practice?
Mr. OCONNOR. The view that we had of the recommendations is
that they are sound recommendations and from a good source.
They need to be taken into consideration as we move into child nutrition reauthorization, and that is where we were at that point.
I think that one of the things that you point out when you were
talking with the Secretary of Education is that when he was in
Chicago he was able to take action in Chicago in order to make
some of the changes that you are talking about here. And I think
that very much this can be looked at as a local issue. You know,
not totally but localities do have the opportunity to be able to put
things in place at this point in time. That doesnt mean that there
isnt going to be a look taken at the recommendation from the IOM
as we move forward into the reauthorization process.
Ms. DELAURO. I would just say in response to that that just
shifting it over to be a local issueI think Dr. Brownell made a
point. If we were to discover that the air filtration systemsor lead
paint, lets talk about lead paint. Lets talk about a whole variety
of areas in which we have come to conclude that we put the public
health in serious jeopardy. We are talking about regulating tobacco. We have 400,000 people every year who die from some tobacco-related illness. After all these years we decided we had to do
something about that.
I always go back to my example here. We had 3,000 people who
died on September 11th. They just got up and went to work. It was
through no fault of their own. We have people being sick and ultimately who are put in great risk in the hundreds and hundreds of
thousands every year, but we dont feel we need to go to war on
those issues. We need to go to war on those issues. My own view
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is that the Federal Government does have a role and a responsibility in this effort. If we just leave itand quite frankly, a lot of
the industry has had great sway in these areas about what is going
on in terms of the nutritional quality of our foods and what we are
serving and what our commodities are, et cetera. It is about what
is in bulk. And what is in bulk may not be what is of the best nutritional value for youngsters, and seniors for that matter at the
other end of the scale. That is good for their health. And what is
happening? They are getting sick and we are faced with illnesses
that are costing millions and millions of dollars and putting peoples lives at risk.
So you know, I think there is a role for the Federal Government.
And my hope is thatI am not going to lay this at your doorstep,
we have a new Secretary. Quite frankly, we couldnt get to first
base in the last go round for the last 8 years. I am hopeful and optimistic that there is a new environment and we can get more than
to first base but that he can we can hit a home run where it comes
to the nutritional quality of our food in our programs that we have
jurisdiction over. I am not talking about what they sell in other
places. We have jurisdiction over these programs, and we have a
responsibility that goes along with that.
Mr. Kingston.
ORGANIC FOODS
Mr. KINGSTON. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Dr. Brownell, I wanted to ask you the cold hard science of organic food, which isnt always what is in the marketplace, but in
your group are you guys studying the true advantage of organic or
disadvantage? It is sexier to have organic fruits and vegetables
compared to canned or frozen, but is the science sound?
Mr. BROWNELL. It depends on the aim of using the organic foods.
If the aim is to decrease the environmental footprint of raising the
food, then organic foods tend to be better choices than the other
ones, because there arent the fertilizers, the pesticides and things
like that that you develop with fossil fuels and things. In terms of
the nutrition, which I think is probably what you are asking about,
it is not studied well enough to really know how much better, if
any better, the organic foods are.
There is some research I have seen recently by a researcher
named Davis in Texas about declining nutrients in foods. And he
has published what I find pretty persuasive evidence thatlike a
carrot is no longer a carrot. A carrot has less nutrients in it than
it used to have. You would have to eat even more of it now than
you would have before to get the same nutrients. Now there could
be contrary evidence, this is in horticulture journals and things
that I dont follow very well, but that is my understanding that
that occurred.
Now, it is possible that the organic foods help compensate for
some of that and have a higher nutrient profile, but I dont know
if there is enough science on that.
OBESITY AND SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS
Mr. KINGSTON. Ms. Parker, I wanted to ask you in terms of the

obesity rate if we look atand I am trying to get the numbers to-
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gether, but the creation of Federal programs on nutrition and obesity compared to the increase in obesity, they havent done a good
job of reducing obesity if that is their purpose. But a lot of it does
have to do with after school snacks and uncontrolled variables. Do
we have any studies at all that can show that nutrition consumed
at school isnt the problem, whether it be in the Tier II versus Tier
I world, which I understand is still just a discussion matter, but
is the real problem after school on their own, weekends? Do you
know?
Ms. PARKER. I dont think the literature is there to really make
those kinds of distinctions, but certainly what children eat is not
just what they eat at school for school lunch and breakfast, it is
also everything else they eat at school and then everything else
they eat everywhere else they eat.
Mr. KINGSTON. It would be nearly impossible to figure out?
Ms. PARKER. Well, there might be a way of making some estimations, but I dont think the literature is there or studies have
been designed yet that I know about to be able to do that.
But would it be okay for me to comment for a minute on something else you raised earlier?
Mr. KINGSTON. No.
SNAP PURCHASES
Ms. PARKER. This I am speaking from a personal perspective

now, not from an Institute of Medicine because we dont have a
study on this one, but I just wanted to raise a caution about prohibiting totally certain foods in the food stamp shoppers diet and
what they are able to purchase with food stamps.
I am basing this more on earlier work I have done through any
career working with low income families, and these are cautions.
We really need to look at, first of all, what is available to low income families in their communities because many communitiesI
think until recently Detroit didnt even have a supermarket if you
can imagine that. It is kind of stunning to think that that is the
case. But that leads not only to the issue of availability, but it also
leads to the issue of cost and how much things cost.
Also I think looking at families, I have seen how people plan. If
they have very low incomes, which often food stamp recipients do
because that is part of their eligibility, they have to plan very carefully. People send their kids to their sisters house once a week to
eat, they have gardens and they go to food pantries and food banks.
So they have lots of sources of food that they sort of have to patch
together to have enough. And so thinking about that in terms of
what one does related to the food stamp program, it is important
to sort of understand the realities of that and how any proposal you
make could affect that.
And then finally I am thinking about especially now with people
losing their jobs and probably more people going on food stamps,
all of this becomes more important and the embarrassment that
people feel when they go up to the counter to buy their food and
some food they can buy and some they cant. This would be a very
complicated matter. Now that we have the cash register set up it
makes it easier in some cases, but for families figuring out what
you are allowed and not allowed, talk about embarrassment. I can
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just see people who recently lost their jobs through no fault of their
own are put in a very embarrassing situation.
We just got these EBT cards now to make everything work better, to reduce problems with the program, and this may add in
more problems. So I am just saying in thinking through these
issues we have to think about the situations and the families and
try to figure out what works best for the whole situation.
Mr. KINGSTON. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. If I might just on that note, Jack, because I know
you would by interested in this, when we were working on the
Farm Bill and looking at increasing the maximum benefit on food
stamps, and after 30 years we went from $10 to $14 and then I
mean $134 to $144. What I found in looking through studies and
also in clips and so forth that what happens in terms of that planning process is at the beginning of the month families are buying
milk and eggs and juice and more nutritious foods. When you get
to the end of the month you are trying to figure out how to feed
the family. What fills the bellies of kids? Soda, you are looking at
junk food. It really is, you can see the patterns and trends because
this is what it is. And fruits and vegetables some of the highest
cost foods so that they cannot afford that. They are not wanting to
buy that, but look hey, you are going to the supermarket your kid
says, I want a bag of potato chips, you may do that, but for a regular diet they have some real constraints around that dollar
amount, again once at the beginning and at the end, which makes
it very, very difficult, including what you are saying.
We have got people now going to food banks who have lost their
jobs through no fault of their ownI wont forget this quote. This
gentleman had a job in manufacturing, he lost his job. He said, I
felt like a low life, I felt humiliated to go to the food pantry to be
able to get food, but I had to do it because I have to feed my kids
because of the stigma that is attached with what we do.
Mr. KINGSTON. I want to make a motion that you can continue
without me.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, very much, Jack. We need
usually two members here because I have several more questions.
The other thing you should know about Mr. Kingston, who talked
about the whole issue of physical exercise and making sure that
physical education is a part of our school curriculum, it is very,
very important and he has fought for those programs, because it
is not just the food side of it but the physical and activity side as
well. So he is a big champion of those efforts.
Mr. KINGSTON. Rode my bike today to work 10 miles. It was
freezing for a Georgia boy.
IOM NUTRITION STANDARDS
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. OConnor, the Institute of Medicine is currently developing recommendations for revising the nutrition
standards and the meal requirements for School Lunch and Breakfast Programs, and that is based on the 2005 Dietary Guidelines.
As I understand, the report is due this year, in December?
Mr. OCONNOR. I believe it is October.
Ms. DELAURO. October, okay. Very good.
Mr. OCONNOR. I hope I am right.
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Ms. DELAURO. It took almost 2 years from the time that the WIC
IOM study was published to get an interim rule out of the Department and another 2 years before the States were mandated to implement the changes. How long will it be before we get the revisions to nutrition standards and meal requirements implemented
in the schools?
Mr. OCONNOR. Our best guess is it may take as long as 3 years.
I would hope that we would be able to get the regulation out based
on those standards faster than we were able to do that with WIC.
But there is going to have to be some lead time for the schools to
be able to implement the changes.
Having said that, that doesnt mean that some schools may not
be able to implement sooner. Some schools may be meeting those
requirements by the time we get a rule out or whatever. But the
rule itself, best guess might be about 3 years to total implementation.
Ms. DELAURO. Why?
Mr. OCONNOR. It is a long process. There is going to be a need
for public comment. You can imagine that the changes that this
may be putting in place for localities, there will be a lot of folks
who want to have something to say about that. We are going to
want to listen to the comments. And then there is time that the
school is going to need in order to be able to change what it is that
they finally put in place.
Ms. DELAURO. Currently guidance to schools and child and adult
care centers are that they must meet the minimum Federal nutrition standards. What are those currently and how many schools
are meeting those minimum standards now?
Mr. OCONNOR. I dont know that offhand. We can get that for
you.
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CHILD NUTRITION REAUTHORIZATION
Ms. DELAURO. Let me ask the panel a question here. We do have

the child nutrition reauthorization coming out. I think that this is
really incredible that we have the child nutrition reauthorization
coming out before the IOM is scheduled to release the study.
How will we know what the reimbursement rate should be to
provide a revised nutrition standard and meal requirement recommendations? Does anyone know what a nutritious meal will
cost? How does that translate into budgetary resources needed to
enact these changes? The School Nutrition Association says the
schools need a $0.30 increase just to break even. If the new meal
requirements would require doubling the reimbursement rates
needed to provide from, lets say, $2.57 for a free lunch to around
$5, what is the amount to implement that change? Is the Administration asking for adequate resources to be able to make these
changes?
Mr. OCONNOR. The same answer as before. I am sorry about
that.
Ms. DELAURO. I dont understand how we can move to restore
this bill without having the data and the basis on which to have
good information in order to make the right, in order to make the
right decisions. Sometimes the public wonders what we do here. I
am wondering what we are doing here in this regard. Let me ask.
I dont know if you had any other comments.
Mr. OCONNOR. Not right now.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Brownell, Ms. Parker.
Mr. BROWNELL. I dont have any particular insight on that issue.
Ms. PARKER. No, I dont.
Ms. DELAURO. Is there a need to increase the reimbursement
rate? Do you have a view on that?
Mr. OCONNOR. We have done a study on the reimbursement
rate, and it doesntit is not conclusive that the schools have an
inadequate reimbursement rate right now.
Ms. DELAURO. It is not conclusive that they have an inadequate,
did you say, or an adequate? Say that again.
Mr. OCONNOR. Let me see how many negatives I can put into
a sentence. I confuse even myself. The study shows that the current reimbursement rates look as though they exceed the cost of
providing meals. It is a very complex situation, though, when you
are looking at all of the different kinds of meals that are provided
to different folks, whether they are getting free, reduced, or full
priced meals or what not in the schools. But I know that there are
many in the schools community that think that the reimbursement
rate does need to be raised. That is something that, again, we are
taking a look at, and we are cognizant of.
FOOD MARKETING TO CHILDREN
Ms. DELAURO. Let me ask aI thought about this, just asked

this or offered it in my opening remarks, which is, given the
amount of money that the industry spends on advertising to children, can we succeed in behavioral change given that marketing
and their advertising? I mean, are we on a fools errand?
Dr. Brownell. Ms. Parker.
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Mr. BROWNELL. We are very committed to the topic of food marketing, especially directed at children. And the amount is staggering. And not only is the amount staggering, but the types of
marketing that gets done are quite different than what used to be
the case. Parents used to be in a better position to monitor what
children are being exposed to. But now children will get advertisements on their cell phones. The industry can spend money much
more effectively these days. Instead of a blunt instrument, like a
television, now that costs a lot, a cost that goes to people that may
or may not be interested. You have Internet games that children
go visit on the Web, where a child, instead of seeing a 15 second
commercial on television, could be there for 30 minutes pushing
cookies around the screen or sugared cereals around the screen.
And so the marketing is becoming much more difficult to even
measure, much less do something about. But we believe that something has to be done to curtail that or else it is hard to believe that
almost anything else could have an impact because the industry
can undo it so quickly.
Ms. DELAURO. What are your proposals in that area? Have you
done work on that?
I dont know, Dr. Brownell, if you get the advantage of that information.
Mr. BROWNELL. We have been funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation to do studies on food marketing to document how
much of it there is. And then our center at Yale was very committed to having three things occur with that information. One is
to help change public opinion so people realize what the full landscape of marketing is. And we believe they have to get mad about
it in order to justify action that gets taken.
The second arena is legislative action that can be taken to curtail
this. And there is a historic thing with the FTC that comes into
play here. Restoring their powers to monitor this would probably
be a good move.
And then the third thing is the law. The First Amendment, of
course, protects the ability to use commercial speech. But there are
some potential ways around that if you can prove that the marketing is unfair and deceptive. And then that gets into consumer
protection law that gets administered by state. So we do believe
there are some opportunities to make changes here, but we really
need to know the landscape first, we will know that soon, and then
I think we can get some action on it.
Ms. DELAURO. I would love to be in touch with you about that.
I think other members of the committee would as well in terms of
how we can work at this issue. As I say, we had some opportunities
with tobacco. A number of us did a lot of work on the underaged
drinking and what we do there. But lets continue that conversation.
Ms. Parker.
Ms. PARKER. Well, the Institute of Medicine, 3 years ago, I think
it was, did a report on food marketing to children and made recommendations. And I would be glad to get that to you.
Ms. DELAURO. Please.
Ms. PARKER. Because I think you would find it very interesting.
And the one thing I wouldand very much that report makes rec-
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ommendations about changes in food marketing to children also.
But I dont think we should find ourselves in total despair. There
are many children who are eating well, and there are many programs that are making changes in the way children consume food.
But certainly this is a major impediment.
Ms. DELAURO. You are right. Look, in the fruit and vegetable
program, the Defense Department has that, but an agency is doing
that. We increased the funding in the Farm Bill for that effort. I
go to schools all of the time, and you see youngsters, and you ask
them, what is your favorite fruit? And they say kiwi. I say, well,
hell, I didnt know what a kiwi was, you know. Or what is your favorite vegetable? It is an artichoke. Those I knew from my own
background, my own cultural background with artichokes. But.
I was talking to a colleague today, Marion Berry, who is from Arkansas, and he was talking about the same program, because we
were talking about this hearing. And he said to me, the problem
is, Rosa, he said, when they talk to you about kiwi and pineapple,
then they cant get it, in other words, because the store does it or
it is priced out of the market for them. But they get it in school,
but they cant do that. You are right, it is not a question of despairing; it is a question of figuring out where we are and where we
need to try to go in that. But I think we have to think about what
kind of controls and enforcement that we need to do.
My understanding is I do have a couple of colleagues coming
back, but I will continue to proceed.
WELLNESS POLICIES
Mr. OConnor, I guess it may be in the purview of the Department of Education for the development of local wellness policies.
That is not in your jurisdiction. The local wellness policies in school
is in your jurisdiction.
Mr. OCONNOR. Right.
Ms. DELAURO. So I have a question there, which is, 2004, in that
Reauthorization Act, required schools to develop a local wellness
policy. That is for healthy school nutrition, environments, reducing
child obesity, preventing diet-related chronic diseases. Some school
districts have created strong community wellness committees that
are engaged in promoting nutrition education, physical activity and
nutrition guidelines. Unfortunately, we have got many that have
not implemented these are the strong programs. What are you
doing? What can we do here to strengthen this? Again, is this
someplace where you think we have to mandate the effort here in
terms of a wellness program?
Mr. OCONNOR. Well, we do have a mandate for wellness programs to be in the schools. But what we dont have are
Ms. DELAURO. So there is a mandate to the school to have to do
it.
Mr. OCONNOR. Yes.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. How many schools have them?
Mr. OCONNOR. As far as we know, they should all have them.
Ms. DELAURO. No, no, no, no, should is not do. How many
have them?
Mr. OCONNOR. I dont know the answer to that. What we have
is the requirement that they have wellness policies. What we dont
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have the authority to do is to require what is in those wellness
policies, in the wellness programs. So that is why you end up with
somewhat of a mixed bag when you are going to go out to the
schools. You see some that are strong, some that are less strong.
Ms. DELAURO. But I would think, in 2004, in a piece of legislation, we mandated that schools have to have a wellness program.
Now, that is like we do with FDA. You have got to come up with
a plan toor USDA to look at what your safety system is, your
HACCP plan, what is that. And then we have to figure out a way
of monitoring that plan. So what is the mechanism in place. The
basic question, Mr. OConnor, is that is a tabulation, you know.
Show us your wellness plan, and then we can calculate how many
we have or we dont have in terms of the mandate. That is not
what is in it, that is a separate issue. But is there somewhere
there has got to be somewhere in the agency that somebody can
provide us with an answer of how many schools have a wellness
program in place.
Mr. OCONNOR. I can try to find out.
Ms. DELAURO. It sounds to me like we dont have a number.
Mr. OCONNOR. I dont know the answer to that, I am sorry.
The local school wellness policy requirement was established by the Child Nutrition and WIC Reauthorization Act of 2004 (Public Law 108265). The law specified
that the Secretary of Agriculture provide information and technical assistance to
local educational agencies, school food authorities, and State educational agencies
upon request and for guidance purposes only. Wellness policies are developed at the
district level and implementation occurs at the school level. The Department does
not have the authority to issue regulations or provide oversight for locally developed
wellness policies.
While USDA does not collect data on implementation of the local wellness policy
requirement, other national non-governmental organizations are gathering information on local wellness policies. The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation has supported
research on this topic, including the Bridging the Gap Project. According to preliminary data (unweighted and cross-sectional) from this nationally representative sample of 579 local education agencies, in School Year 20072008, 90.5 percent of local
education agencies that participated in the National School Lunch Program said
that they had a wellness policy and 9.5 percent said they did not have a wellness
policy.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. Then we have to deal with the substance

of it which is what is important.
Mr. OCONNOR. Exactly.
Ms. DELAURO. Which is what is important. What are the methodologies that you have to look at those, to analyze them, to get
some sense if it is very good, very bad, nada, zero, what is your
capacity.
Mr. OCONNOR. The capacity that we have is small at this point
in terms of the resources that we have. But what we dont have,
again, is the authority to regulate anyway in terms of what the
content of those wellness programs should be. That is not an excuse to not know what they are and whatever.
Ms. DELAURO. And I know this is going to be at the purview of
the Secretary, but I am going to ask the Secretary, and I am sure
you are all going to go back and talk to the Secretary, which is fine,
you should; I have a lot of confidence in the Secretary. But should
we force school districts to take it seriously and to do something
about mandating and dealing with the content of the program?
Dr. Brownell.
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Mr. BROWNELL. My understanding of the 2004 requirement is
that schools have a policy, not a program. And some of thoseso
that means a document basically that says, here is where the
school wellness policy is. That doesnt necessarily translate into
doing anything about it.
And so there were sample policies going around. Some school districts just cut and pasted the template, and that became their policy, and then it went into a drawer. Other schools took it much
more seriously. So as I mentioned when I was making my comments funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, our colleagues at the Rudd Center have done a detailed analysis of school
wellness policies in Connecticut, and we will be happy to share that
information with you.
Ms. DELAURO. Please.
Mr. BROWNELL. And what we found is the schools for the most
part have complied with a need to have a policy. But whether that
turns into anything tangible by the way of programs varies tremendously from place to place.
Ms. DELAURO. How should we address that? Let me ask you
what you think.
Mr. BROWNELL. Require programs in addition to policies. My understanding of the way the legislation got crafted is that the people
who proposed the legislation werent able to get programs mandated so the political compromise was to get a policy mandated.
And that is not a bad first step. In fact, we find that some schools
actually, because of the process of establishing a policy, do implement programs. So that was a worthwhile enterprise. But to get it
done more uniformly would require some kind of mandate.
Ms. DELAURO. Ms. Parker.
Ms. PARKER. I was just going to suggest that there are some national organizations that have looked at this issue that you may
want to look. The School Nutrition Association did a national survey on wellness policies, as did the American Dietetic Association.
So there are some resources out there to sort of get a sense of what
is happening, which might inform whatever the committee decides
to do about it.
Mr. BROWNELL. The other thing that we have developed that
may be helpful is my colleagues have developed a tool for assessing
the strength of school wellness policies, a measurement tool that
has now been validated. So should the USDA decide that they
would like to do some uniform assessment across the country, that
tool might be a helpful resource.
ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. Let me, on the issue of the environment I

guess there was something that I read, I guess, in the, it must be
the food stamp, nutrition and the education. It said that the scope,
that the environmental issues are beyond the scope of the food
stamp program in essence. I think that is what I discerned from
the, if you can find it, Leslie, you know where it is, the guiding
principles there. I think it is page 4 of the guiding principles that
I read this on.
But my point is here, because, Dr. Brownell, you have talked
about environmental issues.
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Ms. Parker, you have talked about that. How do we connect
these issues in your view with looking atit is a difficult issue.
This is a complex issue. How do we do that within like a Farm Bill
that we deal with, within the USDA? You have to help us because
we dont havehow do we manage that in terms of what we are
trying to do and to accomplish when there are lots of bigger issues
around some of these environmental questions? Do you have any
thoughts about it?
Mr. OCONNOR. So by environmental questions, do you mean the
impact of food production on the environment?
Ms. DELAURO. I am talking aboutwhat I thought it was is the
environmental issues that are outside the scope of the program.
How do we look at those things to make it manageable in terms
of what we do so that we can be attentive to those environmental
issues as we are looking at public policy in terms of food nutrition?
Mr. BROWNELL. Well, one thing that would potentially be helpful
would be to do an examination of the impact of USDA policies, agriculture policies, on the environment. Now, depending on who you
talk to, the food production, that is the raising of beef, lets say, is
either the first or second greatest contributor to global warming.
And most people dont realize this, but the production, the modern
food production with heavy use of fossil-based fuels for pesticides,
hormones and the like; the raising of beef, which is a highly inefficient process for a variety of reasons, is having a very bad impact
on the environment. And again, there are different estimates of
how bad, but I think most environmental experts would agree it is
very bad.
And so some people say that the number one thing you could do
to improve the environment personally is to have different driving
habits; drive a different car, et cetera, drive less. But the second
thing you could do is eat less beef. So when it comes to these sort
of things, one sees a very tight link between decisions people are
making about their food, and that is driven a lot by agriculture
policies and nutrition policies in the country, the cost of food, food
industry behavior and all these sort of things, it has a big impact
on peoples health in two ways: One is the nutrition that they are
getting from it, but the other is the impact on the environment that
affects their health in a different way.
And there arent many people who are connecting these pieces of
the puzzle, and I think it is highly important to do so. And that
is why one of the comments that I suggested was creating a commission that would look simultaneously at hunger, obesity, and the
impact of food on the environment to find win-win-win possibilities.
Ms. DELAURO. You talked, Ms. Parker, a lot about some of the
social marketing and other kind of behavioral things in terms of
that environment. How would we manage some of those efforts?
Ms. PARKER. Well, I was just imagining the situation that you
are describing is that you, perhaps you have a group of women together and you are working with them on nutrition education
issues and food purchasing and cooking, and then they go out to
their neighborhood to do what you have suggested that they do.
And they go to their grocery store. Maybe there is no grocery store
to go to. Maybe it is just a small corner store that has very little
food in it. Maybe they go to the grocery store, and there is 30 per-
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cent fat beef, but notor maybe there is not skim milk or maybe
not sufficient. Maybe the corner store doesnt carry skim milk. So
there has to be some change that occurs in the neighborhood so
that those mothers can actually do what you have suggested that
they do. Or in the school setting that you tell the kids to eat certain kinds of foods, but they are not available to eat. Or you tell
them they should be physically active, but the physical education
program isnt there.
So what it really gets down to is, who has a responsibility to
change that environment so that people can act on the things they
learn about what is good for us in terms of nutrition and physical
activity? And the reality is that lots of people a have responsibility.
Local government has certain responsibilities and powers. State
government can make changes. Federal Government can make
changes. Resources have to be made available. In some cases, policies need to be changed. And in fact, in our two reports about obesity, Healthy Balance and The Progress in Preventing Obesity,
which we would be glad to share with you, and we have report
briefs from those, we really go into detail about what each of those
levels of government and what each of those stakeholders, what
roles they can play in changing that environment. Because, for example, in Pennsylvania, the State government has made available
resources to help bring grocery stores into communities. In other
States, physical education has been made mandatory so that it is
available to children in schools. So we need to really be thinking.
And that is what you were thinking about at your level of course,
but at every level, what needs to happen to change the environmental conditions in which people are living that make it sometimes impossible to act on the very things we are telling them to
do. And so there are just a number of ways in which we can proceed in this area. But I think recognizing that it is not just nutrition education; it is not just personal responsibility; but you cant
carry out your personal responsibility if the environment hasnt
changed. And individuals can help that to change, but they also
need assistance from local health departments, local government,
State and Federal Government. And industry, too, has a role to
play in changing the products that they produce. So all of those
pieces can make a difference.
HEALTHY INCENTIVES PILOT
Ms. DELAURO. Let me justI have a couple more. I think my colleague, Ms. Kaptur, is coming back, but you have been wonderfully
patient. And I know one of the issues that Ms. Kaptur cares about
is the purchase of local foods, whether it is through USDA, DOD,
schools, care providers, going beyond this geographic preference
thing. So I will mention this. The Administration has proposed previously a pilot obesity initiative that calls for competitive grants to
develop and test ways of addressing obesity in low-income populations with evaluation of the results. Can you tell us a little bit
about this initiative?
Mr. OCONNOR. We have aI believe what you are referring to,
we call it HIP. It is taking a look at what incentives can we put
in place at the point of sale in order to incentivize people or encour-
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age them to be able to purchase more fruits and vegetables. The
number of
Ms. DELAURO. Where are you implementing that program?
Mr. OCONNOR. We havent implemented it yet. We have been
going through a process of trying to decide what are the interventions that we want to be able to test. And it is quite complicated
to figure out what is the right incentive and how would you give
people those incentives, how large should they be, those kinds of
efforts. We are looking to be able to get that off the ground this
coming fall. So we are moving quitethere are a lot of factors.
Ms. DELAURO. Off the ground in deciding what those incentives
should be and where you are going to go with it, is that right,
where it is going to be implemented?
Mr. OCONNOR. We will be seeking applications this fall to actually put those into place.
Ms. DELAURO. I see. With the criteria in place.
Mr. OCONNOR. Right.
In October 2008, FNS held a public symposium on the Healthy Incentives Pilot
(HIP), convening stakeholders, researchers and technical experts from various fields
related to the HIP initiative. Participants represented the food retail industry, electronic benefit transfer companies, nutrition educators, commercial organizations
with experience delivering product incentives in retail settings, and researchers
with experience evaluating healthy eating promotions. While the symposium provided the substantial information, there was no consensus on several key questions
FNS posed to participants. Areas requiring further examination include the form,
size and delivery of the incentive; as well as significant features of the evaluation.
In a response to the wide range of views expressed, FNS followed up with additional
contacts to key stakeholders, including other USDA and Department of Health and
Human Services agencies, the National Cancer Institute, and multiple professional
associations. The goal of these follow-up activities is to identify the trade-offs associated with alternative choices and cost estimates for different options. A Web site
is being created and will be implemented in mid-April 2009 for interested parties
to check the status of HIP activities.
FNS is on track to meet the following timeline for the HIP:
Fiscal Year 2009Complete a very thorough planning process to ensure that all
research and expert input has been fully vetted and considered for the pilot design
and evaluation scope. During this time, FNS will also develop independent solicitations for the evaluation and pilot projects and advertise for proposals.
Fiscal Year 2010Make competitive awards for the pilot sites and evaluation contractor and initiate activities to implement the pilots and the evaluation process.
Fiscal Year 2011 and beyondBegin pilot operations and continue evaluation activities.
SNAP PAYMENT FREQUENCY
Ms. DELAURO. There was a suggestion or recommendation for

looking at the, again, the nutritional foods that, and we had this
conversation a little bit ago about the food stamp moneys given out
on a monthly basis, if you will. But foods purchased through the
food stamp program, including providing biweekly benefits rather
than monthly so families are not running out of the benefits by the
end of the month, what are the impediments or the benefits of implementing biweekly benefits, point-of-sale incentives or these
other kinds of improvements that we can look at by way of improving the nutritional quality in the program.
Let me start with you Mr. OConnor. Then I will yield to Ms.
Kaptur.
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Mr. OCONNOR. One impediment is that the Farm Bill prohibited
it.
Ms. DELAURO. Prohibited the bimonthly.
Mr. OCONNOR. Right. And one of the things that you get into is
there is an added cost to be able to do that. And so that has to be
taken into consideration as well. And also I think, from the experience that I have had with the SNAP program, with the food stamp
program, the benefits are really a supplement to help people be
able to purchase a nutritional food that they need for the entire
month. If we split that benefit up, we are splitting the supplement
up. There is an expectation, except for those people who are getting
100 percent of the benefit or whatever, there is an expectation that
they are contributing towards the purchase of food themselves, so
it could just be deferring how that budgeting happens in the household. So there are a number of factors that come into play on that.
Ms. DELAURO. Comments?
Mr. BROWNELL. Yes, quickly. A lot of the questions that you raise
are easily testable and could be tested in a very short period of
time if the money were available and there were some mandate for
this. So if the USDA had a granting process, and perhaps they do
that I am not aware of, specifically around this concept of how can
we improve nutrition through these programs by systematically
manipulating these various pieces of them, then you could have an
answer pretty quickly about what would most help and what the
costs would be. That can be done quite readily I would think. The
question is, what would the update be? How quickly could it be implemented in policy? And I know less about that. But the studies
wouldnt be very hard to do.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, we should talk about that.
Ms. Parker.
Ms. PARKER. Again, this is not as an OIM witness, but rather
from my personal experience. It goes back again to the situation in
the household. If you have got a limited amount of money and you
are purchasing, you plan for the month and you buy things in bulk
that you can buy that arent as perishable. And so if your money,
whatever money you get from food stamps, is split in half, that
may reduce your ability to take advantage of big sales, bulk purchases. And anybody who has had experience buying with small
amounts, or living on small amounts of money and trying to plan
will know what I am talking about. You cant buy that 10 pound
bag or that big box at the Costco, whatever it might be, because
you have only got half the money.
Ms. DELAURO. Ms. Kaptur.
Ms. KAPTUR. Thank you, Madam Chair, for your leadership, and
it is so great to have this hearing today. And we thank you all. You
must be worn out by now. But we thank you for your service, and
you have really important responsibilities, and we care about those
responsibilities. And we are at the receiving end down in our districts. We get to see what happens in these cafeterias and lunch
rooms. And as hard as we are all working, we have got to do better.
And the focus of my questioning really will be on local food systems and sustainability at the local level and its relationship to our
children and their health. And I am going to ask you to provide for
the record, you may not be able to answer this today, for best prac-
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tices around the country where those local connections have best
been made to improve the diet of our children. I am going to tell
you a little bit about Ohio, and I need your help.
About 8 months ago Secretary Johner visited our district to look
at ways of connecting our nutrition programs to local agriculture
so that we could get more fresh fruits and vegetables; so that we
could get better meals prepared; so that our local community could
learn how better to do this. And subsequent to her visit, we passed
a new Farm Bill.
And the procurement process and the purchasing agreements for
school lunch programs with these changes allow local foods to be
used by local schools. However, within the State of Ohio, that
doesnt happen. And food purchasing requirements there dictate
that only one purchaser is the gatekeeper for all of the nutrition
programs, and that person exists in the State capital in Columbus.
And if a producer, a farmer, in our region wants to sell food to a
school in our district they need to receive permission approval from
that Columbus consolidated food buyer, and they must pay a royalty to that buyer and fill out very complicated forms in order to
apply.
Second Harvest Food Bank statewide director, and I wish to
place her comments on the record, Lisa Hamler-Fugitt, who studied
this more than anybody I know, says the following, the issue is
that local school food service authorities, public entities, Department of Administrative Services, and even the U.S. Department of
Agriculture have very complicated RFP and bidding processes that
are far too extensive, complex and highly technical for most local
producers to navigate and complete. In most situations only large
companies with highly trained staff can complete these requirements. Many of the farmers, growers, and commodity producers
that we work with at Second Harvest tell us that they dont have
the knowledge, expertise, or resources to compete for those contracts. Many farmers and growers in Ohio report that far too many
program procurement authorities arent interested in working with
them or with local producers and view their foods as less desirable
and table-ready compared to packaged, wrapped, and prepared
foods.
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BEST PRACTICES OF LOCAL PURCHASES
So my request really is one of help. Perhaps does USDA have

best practices around the country that you could share with our
State officials? We would like to redo that visit with FNS in our
region. We would like to bring in the State people. Secretary
Johner said you better have them at the table because they are not
here. Well, they didnt want to come.
And so the interesting thing, and I will tell you the head of our
financing arm of our largest school system, and I represent about
19 school systems in our region, came to a meeting in our office
about a year and a half ago and said to me, well, Congresswoman,
you are the first person that has ever asked me about the connection between education and nutrition, and he had been the chief
auditor for the school system for 25 years. So, in Ohio, the money
for food goes through the Department of Education. They dont
think about nutrition, and they dont think nutrition is their responsibility. So we have got to some how reconnect this at the local
level. And I really believe USDA has the lead.
I mean, the money we provide for food for our children, we
should put restrictions on this, and we should make things happen,
but we need to know best practices. And so my question to you
really is, do you have examples in your office of experience around
the country where this is being done well, where fruits and vegetables and produce are being provided to children? What can we
learn from that, especially where our local producers, and where
those exist, I am sure Utah doesnt have a lot of, maybe they do,
but in Ohio, we can feed ourselves. If we choose to do that, how
do we relink the producers to the consumers in these schools?
Mr. OCONNOR. We can certainly look for those best practices and
provide them to you as you have requested. I think what you are
touching on in this situation that you describe also illuminates the
difficulties or the complexity really, not so much difficulties, but
the complexities of the procurement processes and what rules apply
and whatnot. We can take a look and see what is happening in
Ohio in terms of what you have just described to us or whatever.
We also can provide technical assistance, and we will look into
doing that.
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112
Ms. KAPTUR. I would really love to do that for the Ohio delegation. I cant take care of the whole country all at once. Other people
do that. But if we do it right in Ohio we think that our example
will spread, and we really need the help there, because we have got
some dysfunctionality, and the yield is children who are not eating
properly in every one of these schools. I can tell you, just in my
district, in looking at what money was spent on last year by one
school system, they spent $650,000 on procurement of pizza, local
pizza, from one of these standard companies. And I thought, wow.
It is not even pizza with vegetables on it. So it is just interesting.
I mean, it is like nobody thinks about it. It is like it all comes down
these shoots. And in the end, you go into the cafeteria, and you see
what is eaten, and you see what is thrown away. Something is not
right here.
Mr. Brownell.
Mr. BROWNELL. If I might comment, there is a wonderful example of this working right in Berkeley, California. It got started by
Alice Waters, a well known chef and author, who convinced one of
the local middle schools to turn a parking lot into an edible garden
essentially. They call it the Edible School Yard. And you can
Google that and find a lot of information they have available. And
the purpose was to get the kids involved with sustainability and
growing local foods. Some of the food went into the cafeteria. The
kids would do poetry readings in the garden. They learned elementary plant biology in the garden, et cetera. It really became a real
focus in that particular school.
And based on the success of that, the Berkeley Consolidated
School District has decided to do that sort of thing district wide.
And they hired a chef named Ann Cooper to come in and run the
food service for the whole Berkeley school system. And she has
worked out a lot of the problems that you mention about how to
procure food for the whole school district, how to work with local
farmers, how to get through the paper work and things. It could
be that the California requirements are different from those in
Ohio, and I wouldnt know about that, but they have worked out
a lot of the problems and done it successfully.
Ms. KAPTUR. That is a very good example, Mr. Brownell. Does
your Department have that in a little kit that members could receive or other examples like it?
Mr. BROWNELL. The people in Berkeley do. If you go right to the
Web site
Ms. KAPTUR. The Edible School Yard.
Mr. BROWNELL [continuing]. The Edible School Yard, you will
find a variety of brochures, pamphlets and things like that, that
you can download, that they could send you. And if you would like,
I could get in touch with them and ask them to get you material.
PURCHASES BY SCHOOL DISTRICTS
Ms. KAPTUR. Yes. We need USDAs help to sort of put their arms
around our State and to allow them to cooperate rather than resist.
And actually, I would appreciate it.
Here is another thing, Madam Chair, I am really interested in;
the hardest information to obtain in my district through the State
of Ohio is, of the Federal dollars that have come down for our
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breakfast and lunch programs, how much of what has been procured by each school district at what price? Try to get it. So if you
cant even know what has been done, how can you possibly improve
upon it? Do you collect that information? Is there a reporting back
up the chain of command to USDA from the school districts?
Mr. OCONNOR. No, not from the school districts.
Ms. KAPTUR. How would we get that? That way you would make
a very clear judgment on how much high fat McNuggets have been
purchased versus how many apples and green peppers and low-fat
yogurt. We dont have a way of measuring anything. Can you help
me figure this out? How would we do this?
Mr. OCONNOR. I think that what we would have to do is a survey and ask for all that information to come in.
Ms. KAPTUR. All right.
Mr. OCONNOR. But that would be a large undertaking.
Ms. KAPTUR. What if you were just to take, selfishly, the Chairwomans congressional district and my congressional district, and
maybe Mrs. Emerson. Take the women on the committee. Oh, I like
that idea. How about that? Three districts, would that be hard to
do?
Mr. OCONNOR. My colleague is telling me we are looking at this
right now at a national level but not to the level that you are talking about. We could do that. It would cost money, obviously. As Mr.
Brownell was saying, there are ways to study things.
Ms. KAPTUR. Madam Chair
Ms. DELAURO. We can think that through, Marcy, and figure
what we can do.
Ms. KAPTUR. All right. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Alexander.
CONFLICTING PROGRAMS
Mr. ALEXANDER. Thank you, Madam Chairman.

I dont want to ask a question that might have already been
asked, so I will just make a little statement talking about school.
It wont take me but a couple of minutes to tell you a cute little
thing that happened in my office. A couple years ago, Madam
Chairman, before we voted for the CAFTA Free Trade Agreement,
I dont remember when that was, a couple of years ago anyway, the
Governor from Louisiana at that time, a lady, was very much opposed to the CAFTA Free Trade Agreement because she was afraid
the South American countries may flood the market with sugarcane. And Louisiana is a big producer of sugar that comes from
sugarcane, so she was opposed to it. And I had made the statement
that I was for the CAFTA Free Trade Agreement.
She sent a lobbyist into my office one day and said, we want to
remind you that the Governor of Louisiana is very much against
the CAFTA Free Trade Agreement. Louisiana produces, 20 percent
of the Nations sugar that is consumed that is made by sugarcane
or from sugarcane comes from the State of Louisiana, and I said
I understand that. And she said, also, you remember the Appropriations Committee, and we have a request in to the Appropriations Committee, and we would like for you to help us make sure
that it is funded. The Pennington Biomedical Research Center
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right off the LSU campus in Baton Rouge, the largest obesity research center in the world, and there is a request in for that.
And I said, that is a government at its finest: Over here, we want
to protect the sugar industry; and on this hand, we want to do
what we can to do more obesity research. And that is just, for instance, how lopsided government can be at local, State, Federal levels.
I made the statement last year, it just seems so strange we will,
as a committee and as a government, we will subsidize milk producers to help them produce all the milk, and then when they overproduce cheese, well, we will spend a lot of money getting that out
to food banks or commodity centers. And then somebody will say,
oh, let us feed it to our school kids. And then 20 years down the
road, it will stop their veins up, and then we will have to try to
figure out what to do there. It just seems like there are so many
times that we shoot ourselves in the foot.
VENDING MACHINES IN SCHOOLS
Jack, that works behind me here, asked earlier if there is data

out there to show how many Coke machines or soft drink vending
machines are in schools. Do we have a comparison on a per-capita
basis across the Nation? Does anybody know? Do parents ever approach the school boards and say, look, we need to put a stop to
this? It shouldnt be up to the government to do a lot of that.
Mr. BROWNELL. There are data available on the percentage of
schools that have soft drink machines in them; less on how many
in each school. But it is a changing number and changing fast in
the right direction. There are a lot of school districts and States,
too, that are taking action.
It so happens Connecticut has the most aggressive school nutrition legislation in the country. So in the State of Connecticut, you
wont find those machines. In other places, you will find a lot of
them. It really depends. So the number is changing quickly. It is
going in the right direction, but it is still a real presence in some
school districts.
And by the way, one of the issues that came up some time back
in our discussion was a possibility the schools would lose revenue
if the machines got taken out. That really is a myth for two reasons. One is that there is some research showing that if they put
healthier things in the machines, kids will buy the healthier
things, and the revenue stays about the same.
But the other myth there, it is as if people sort of behave as if
the soft drink companies are standing there handing money to the
school district. But it is not the companies that are putting the dollars and the quarters into the machines, it is the kids in the school
district. And the soft drink companies are taking a cut of it. So if
the schools are going to have those kinds of machines, they would
be better doing it on their own and going out to Sams Club and
buying big masses of the stuff and selling it on their own, not having to give part of it to the soft drink companies. But it is a real
myth to believe that the companies are contributing to the education in a school district. It is more or less a tax because the kids
are paying for it.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Thank you.
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Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much. We do have a habit of
Mr. ALEXANDER. Shooting ourselves.
Ms. DELAURO. In the foot, right. I could think of a number of examples.
I have organized myself here so that I know what my last two
or three questions are going to be, and we will let you free, free
at last.
WIC FOOD PACKAGE
The WIC, we havent talked much about the WIC Program here,
the food package implementation. We havent dealt with the guidelines since about 1974; 4 years since the IOM released a report,
WIC Food Package: It is Time For a Change. That was the foundation for nutritional changes of the WIC food packaging. The interim final rule was published in December of 2007. So 4 years for
the rule.
Since then, States have been working on implementing the WIC
food packages. And I understand New York and Delaware are the
only two States that have already implemented the changes. Where
are the other States in implementing the changes? What issues are
States encountering with implementing the new WIC food packages, and how are the changes being received by vendors and WIC
participants? Are States providing outreach in education to ease
this transition to the WIC food packages?
Mr. OCONNOR. All of the States are on schedule to implement
the WIC food package changes by October of this year, which is
good news. Some States will be implementing before that. As you
noted, New York and Delaware are leading the pack there. There
will be others coming on board. But it is a difficult transition for
some States to be able to do that. It involves computer changes.
Ms. DELAURO. What are the issues with regardis it technical?
Mr. OCONNOR. Yeah. And there are limited dollars available in
States to be able to make some of those changes. But having said
all of that, we are on track to have all of the food package changes
implemented by October of this year, which is, I think, good news
for everybody involved.
The attached table indicates the anticipated implementation date for each State.
Both New York and Delaware implemented the changes in January 2009. All States
plan to implement by the October 1, 2009 deadline. The implementation timeframes
were determined by the State agency based on the States assessment of changes
required to its management information system, the training needs of staff, vendors
and participants, and development of a new State Food list. The Food and Nutrition
Service is providing technical assistance to WIC State agencies to assist them in implementing the interim rule by the deadline.
From an electronic benefit standpoint, one major challenge is defining the new
business rules and technical requirements for an electronic cash value voucher to
allow for software updates to electronic cash registers and State agency systems.
The national WIC office has facilitated a workgroup of States and industry to develop these requirements in order to meet the implementation dates required by
regulation.
We are also streamlining the WIC management information system approval
process to enable State agencies to more easily make necessary changes to their
management information systems to meet the implementation deadline.
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Ms. DELAURO. Have there been any response in terms of the vendors or the participants on the change rather than the technical
side of it?
Mr. OCONNOR. I think we anticipated some push-back from vendors and whatever. But it seems as though everybody is okay at
this point.
Ms. DELAURO. Good. And you feel comfortable with the outreach
that the States are making in the education process to ease the
transition.
Mr. OCONNOR. Yes.
FRUITS AND VEGETABLE PROGRAM
Ms. DELAURO. The fruits and vegetable program, in your testimony, Mr. OConnor you said that FNS estimates that the programs together supported nearly $11 billion in 2008 in fruit and
vegetable consumption, through the distribution program. The 2008
Farm Bill provided $1.4 billion over the next 10 years to expand
that program. And obviously, we talked about here today the increase of the consumption of fruits and vegetables in schools.
In your view, where do we get the biggest nutritional impact on
providing increased fruit and vegetable consumption? Is it in the
School Lunch Program or through the Fruit and Vegetable Snack
Program?
Mr. OCONNOR. It has to be looked at, I think, through the School
Lunch Program, just because given the volume of dollars that are
available.
Ms. DELAURO. So we get our biggest bang for the buck through
the School Lunch Program.
Mr. BROWNELL. As an aside, one of my colleagues at the Rudd
Center, Marlene Schwartz, did an interesting study in your congressional district in Gilford, Gilford schools, where she tested just
changing a simple thing in the school lunch process where, instead
of kids being asked or being able to pick a fruit, it was actually
placed on their tray. They were given a choice of a fruit or a juice,
but it was actually placed on their tray. And that simple change
greatly increased fruit consumption in those kids. Now, there was
a little waste. That is, you put it on the tray and some kids
wouldnt eat it then, but many did. And so just that little tweak
in the way that it is done. So that would be an example of a little
study that got done, didnt take much time, cost almost nothing,
but could have a big impact if it resulted in changed policy.
Ms. DELAURO. Can I get a chance to see that study?
Mr. BROWNELL. Yes.
Ms. DELAURO. Great. I have got a couple more questions, Rodney, but let me, Mr. Alexander, let me yield to you.
Mr. ALEXANDER. I am fine. Thank you.
NUTRITIONAL QUALITY OF COMMODITY PROGRAMS
Ms. DELAURO. On the USDA, the commodity of foods, Mr. OConnor, you have talked about an aggressive initiative that improved
the nutritional quality of the FNS commodity program.
Dr. Brownell calls on FNS to improve the nutrient quality of
USDA commodity foods. What is the aggressive initiative FNS is
pursuing, and what additional steps can the Department imple-
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ment to improve the nutritional quality of the commodity programs?
Mr. OCONNOR. Well, some of the things that we have already
done is that we have put in place changes to lower the salt content
of the commodities that we provide. Lowering the sugar content by,
for example, only offering canned fruits that are packed in light
syrup or water or natural juices. We are cutting fat in the commodities that we supply. And we are increasing the variety of whole
grains that we provide to schools as well.
Ms. DELAURO. What is the total amount spent on purchasing
commodities and how much can FNS require to meet these nutritional standards.
Mr. OCONNOR. Let me see if you have that. It is about $800 million a year. It is all in entitlements and whatever. Closer to $1 billion, sorry.
Ms. DELAURO. In terms of the purchasing of commodities, it is
$1 billion.
Mr. OCONNOR. For the schools.
Ms. DELAURO. Can we do something about requiring meeting nutritional standards with regard to theas I understand it, the
schools, you give them a list, they select what they want on the
commodities, is that right? Can we do anything with regard to the
requirement on nutritional standards on commodities?
Mr. OCONNOR. So that we are restricting the kinds of commodities?
Ms. DELAURO. Yeah. In terms of the nutritional content of the
commodities, or are we just shipping?
Mr. OCONNOR. The schools are choosing the commodities as part
of their overall presentation or their overall efforts at meeting the
nutritional standards for the entire meal. So the commodities that
they are choosing are the whole package.
Ms. DELAURO. So is that commodity purchase you are telling me,
then, has to meet some nutrition standard that the school is subject to so thatthe school has to take into consideration the nutritional standards when they are dealing with commodities.
Mr. OCONNOR. Yes, so the commodities are making up a part of
the overall meal plan that the school has put together. The meal
plan has to meet the nutritional standards.
Ms. DELAURO. Is that working?
Ms. PARKER. I was just going to add before, in my previous job,
I wrote a report on the commodity program, which I will be glad
to share with you. It looks at some of these issues. In fact, we created a term called nutrition control, points which was basically
to point out all the points at which decisions are made along the
chain that could turn different ways and make a difference in
terms of what the commodities ultimately end up looking like on
a childs plate. So I would be glad to share that with you.
But it is notit is, again, a responsibility that has to do with
Federal level, but with State level and local school district level; for
example, often school districts dont have enough knowledge about
how to make decisions about how their commodities are processed
in a way that will produce products that will be more inwill allow
them to stay more in keeping with the Dietary Guidelines. So there
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are places all along the way in which changes, small changes could
occur that could make a difference.
Ms. DELAURO. And in essence, and I am just speaking out loud
here, it gets back to looking at improving the nutritional quality of
the commodities that we purchased rather than leaving most of it
up to what commodity prices we have to support. Is that a fair
comment?
Ms. PARKER. Well, the one thing I would say is that, as I understand it, according to what research I did, actually things like beef,
for example, is the leanest beef on the marketplace. So, in fact, it
is important to really look at, specifically at, what products are
there. And in some cases, they could be improved. In other cases,
they are doing a pretty good job. It is also an issue of how people
make choices however. If most people use all their money to buy
meat but dont spend very much of it on fruits and vegetables, that
is an interesting thing to look at.
So I guess what I am saying is, it is a lot more complex than
meets the eye. And what States offer to local school districts, what
school districts understand about how to order food from companies
that process the commodities, all of those things have an impact on
what is on the childs plate.
CHILD NUTRITION INITIATIVES
Ms. DELAURO. I just have a comment and then one last question,
or one last comment from all of you.
Dr. Brownell, you have laid out some possible new initiatives.
You talked about the commission at the Institute of Medicine on
an economic and health analysis of the impact of subsidies, how we
can use that subsidy policy to better address the nutritional needs
and concerns and health concerns that we have, the impact on food
prices on a Nation with a vulnerable population and food access,
and really take a look at that and how we go about trying to implement that.
I know that CRS has done some things. About initiatives, they
say they are out here at the moment. I will just say this to you,
Mr. OConnor, that CRS says Child Nutrition Programs initiatives
include the following: Providing mandatory funding for a currently
authorized pilot project raising income limit for free school meals
to 185 percent of the Federal policy income guidelines; authorizing
a School Breakfast Program in which all foods are served free without regard to family income in place as a current breakfast program. These are initiatives that are out there, is that accurate, are
these accurate? These are ideas? These are not initiatives?
Mr. OCONNOR. Right.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. Authorizing start-up grants for School
Breakfast Programs; expanding the provision of the Federal child
nutrition subsidies for dinners served in after-school programs in
additional States. Let me just tell you that got shot down in the
Recovery program. I cant make people understand what is going
on here, but, you know, we live to fight another day.
Simplified Summer Food Service Program rules nationally applicable; the competitive foods requirements issue; establishing and
funding a competitive grant program for schools to create healthy
school nutrition environments; assessing the effect of these envi-
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ronments on the health and well being of their students; expanding
the summer food service program; increasing the number of areas
in which the meals are offered; start-up grants for a new summer
program; making nationally applicable rules now used in a pilot
project in Pennsylvania that ease participation by summer program
sponsors in rural areas.
So these are not initiatives, but they are ideas. Are there any
that jump out to you that are along that we are really taking a
hard look at? No, you dont know, or we are not? I am not asking
you to comment on the policy. I just want to know if there is anything in the pipeline with regard to any of this effort or that we
have to start from scratch and try to take a look at them.
Mr. OCONNOR. Much of that is in the pipeline.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, if I send you this list, can you then tell me
what is in the pipeline, what isnt and where in the pipeline it is?
Mr. OCONNOR. I think we will need to defer to the Secretary on
that.
CHILD NUTRITION REAUTHORIZATION
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. As I say, he is here next week.

A final question to all of you. We are going to deal with the reauthorization of the child nutrition WIC reauthorization this year.
Let me just ask you, what would be your top priority for that reauthorization?
Mr. OCONNOR. I am being told our top priority is that it happen
this year.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. Ms. Parker.
Ms. PARKER. I dont think the Institute of Medicine takes positions on legislative issues.
Ms. DELAURO. But I mean, just what would be a good thing?
Ms. PARKER. Well, let me do this. I will talk from my personal
Ms. DELAURO. Talk from your personal, that is right, because
you have got a good background in all this stuff.
Ms. PARKER. Let me say two good things. One good thing would
be to ask the Secretary of Agriculture to give the Secretary of Agriculture the authority to do some newrequire the Secretary of Agriculture to do competitive food regulations and expand it to the
whole school and the whole State and put that through some kind
of a regulatory process, so that and perhaps use our IOM standards
as the basis.
And the second thing I would say, and this, again, is personal,
is to do what we can to increase access to Child Nutrition Programs whatever form they take, so that, particularly in the current
context with poor families, that kids get the nutrition they need,
enough nutrition.
Mr. BROWNELL. And I would say, similar to what Lynn recommended, better nutrition standards in schools that would focus
on two things. One is how to drive up consumption of the things
we would like to see children eat more of, and how to drive down
consumption of the things children should eat less of.
And then second would be to be a little more aggressive with the
school wellness policies, as we discussed. Whether to try to figure
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a way that policies can become programs and to provide some guidance from Washington about what an ideal policy and set of programs would look like.
Ms. DELAURO. We will conclude. It is 4:15. You have been here
since 1:00. So I much appreciate your time and your patience. I will
say that we did take an hour out of this to be able to go over and
vote, but that didntI cant tell you how much I appreciate your
being here and your thoughtfulness and your candor about the
kinds of things that we ought to do. I believe this is a very, very
big issue. We face this as a Nation.
I think it is a crisis of proportions in terms of the effects ofand
I believe the agencies are trying to do a good job, I truly do. This
is not about gotcha. This is not about just casting aspersions or trying tobut I think we can do better. And we have an obligation
to do better. The end of the line is public health, and we are failing
on that public health measure, not because we wanted to, but
somehowand we never talked about the link between poverty and
hunger and obesity and all of this, which are big, big social issues,
which we have to grapple with. But we have it within the purview
of this subcommittee. We are not an authorizing committee, but we
have the purse. We can try to help make some changes through
what we do. We need, obviously, the cooperation of the agency. And
from what I have heard from some of the nutrition groups, that
they are excited about what the Secretary has been talking about
and where he is coming from on the issue of nutrition.
And I know that people in the agency are clamoring for this as
well. And we need the benefit of the expertise of you, Ms. Parker
and you, Dr. Brownell, to help us to formulate and craft legislative
initiatives so that we can get to good public policy in this area. So
thank you very much for spending all this time with us today. I
appreciate it. And this hearing is concluded. Thank you.
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TUESDAY, MARCH 31, 2009.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
WITNESSES
HON. THOMAS VILSACK, SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE
W. SCOTT STEELE, BUDGET OFFICER
MS. DELAURO OPENING STATEMENT

Ms. DELAURO. The committee is called to order.
Before I make my opening remarks or ask Mr. Kingston to make
some remarks, I would just like to yield to Mr. Latham, who shares
the geography with the Secretary.
Mr. Latham.
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
I just wanted to, as a fellow Iowan, welcome you and congratulate you on your appointment as Secretary. We are very proud and
look forward to working with you.
Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, Mr. Latham.
In fact, we want to all welcome you here this morning, Secretary
Vilsack. It is a delight to be with you, and thank you very, very
much for being here.
I know that this is your first opportunity to testify before Congress since you have been sworn in, taking the time to be with us
this morning, even as you continue to settle in and staff up, and
I know that is a concern.
Let me just say to you, Mr. Secretary, you bring a lifetime, really, of service and an impressive record on agriculture and nutrition
issues to the new role that you have. As Governor, you achieved
a lot for family farmers, livestock producers, rural communities.
Fighting hunger took center stage during your administration, and
you made rural development a real priority with the Iowa Values
Fund. I know that you are committed to protecting public health
and building a framework for growth in small towns and communities across America. I look forward, too, and I know that the committee does, the subcommittee looks forward to working with you
and the very many dedicated men and women at the USDA to
make good on that commitment.
Of course, we also know that you are coming into a Departmentand I will say it is my viewthat is desperate for reform.
In recent years, the Department has struggled to fulfill its own
mission and to meet the needs of the American people, and today
we have an opportunity to make the Department a powerful force
for good.
I believe we made an important first step by making critical investments with the recovery package: $20.9 billion in nutrition programs; $1.2 billion for essential community facilities in rural areas
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such as health care, fire, rescue and public safety services; $3 billion for guaranteed loans to rural businesses; and $340 million for
watershed and flood-prevention activities that are ready to begin
work this year.
But we must go farther. We need to build on these resources and
commit to reforming the Department on every front.
First, on nutrition, this subcommittee has already held an oversight hearing this year on the reach and the impact of USDAs nutrition programs, the school lunch program, in particular. And I am
trying to go back and to find it, and I have asked staff to look at
it. I understand that in the 1977 Farm Bill that the U.S. Department of Agriculture was designated as the lead agency in nutrition
in this country. So that is what, in fact, I believe it ought to be.
And I know that you and the President are committed to confronting childhood obesity as we implement the Farm Bill and
begin work on childhood nutrition reauthorization. We have an opportunity to make concrete improvement in the health and the
lives of Americas children.
I believe that USDA should work to reduce barriers and increase
resources for more direct connection between the demand and the
supply on the part of school food services and family farmers, between local schools and food networks.
More broadly, the Department has also the opportunity to immediately improve resources to rural communities, open markets, to
local farmers, and to reduce health disparities in the process.
Second, food safety. Americans should be able to assume that the
food that they serve their children is safe to eat. Unfortunately,
from peanuts to ground beef to peppers to imported seafood and,
just yesterday, pistachiosthe word on the pistachios is, dont eat
them, but dont throw them away, because we are not sure yet
what the situation is. But dont eat them. It gives you pause.
We have seen one devastating case of widespread food-borne illness after the next. President Obama has already made it clear
that this is not acceptable, and I hope that his proposed Food Safety Working Group can begin to bring serious reform that we need
in this area.
I have long been concerned about USDAs dual mission of promoting the products it is supposed to regulate. I believe this inherent conflict of interest at the agency has contributed to some of the
food safety problems we have encountered over the years.
We must work to modernize the Food Safety and Inspection
Service in a way that emphasizes prevention, not just reaction, and
recognize that as long as the threat from food-borne pathogens are
constantly evolving, so, too, must our food safety system.
And to stay ahead, we need to continue to prioritize certain key
principles. We need to look at the foods that are at greatest risk.
We need to categorize facilities based on risk. We need to establish
performance standards for food-borne pathogens. We need to look
at those risk-based efforts in terms of frequency of inspections and
the reporting requirements for companies.
Third area, rural development. For too long the importance of the
nonagricultural economy in rural communities has not been reflected in USDA priorities. Today, even farmers are not earning
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their primary living from agriculture. Eighty percent of farm
household income is derived off the farm.
The Department needs to rethink its mission and its priorities,
giving just as much attention to rural development as it does to
production agriculture. That means working to reach more vulnerable families and workers in rural areas, including small farmers,
low-resource farmers, and minority farmers and small landowners.
Also, coordinating with Health and Human Resources, Commerce, Transportation, investing in rural infrastructure, including
broadband, not only to connect rural areas to the global economy,
but also to generate growth in rural America. And I know this is
a priority for you, and I want you to know that I will be there
fighting for that right by your side.
We fought very, very hard in the economic recovery package to
make sure that there were resources that went to the U.S. Department of Agriculture and to RUS for broadband. RUS does have a
program, quite frankly. Commerce hasnt started up yet with a program in this area. So we are looking to you for leading the way in
this area.
Finally, energy. Secretary Vilsack, I know that you will continue
to work to ensure that agriculture is an integral part of our push
to make renewable electricity affordable and accessible. On this
critical issue we must prioritize research and conservation to find
the right balance between our need to move energy independence
and minimizing the impact on the environment, while at the same
time we need to closely monitor the impact of increased mandates
for biofuels on the environment and on food prices. Each of these
issuesnutrition, food safety, rural development, energythey are
a priority for this subcommittee; and they are ready for reform
within the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
Mr. Secretary, I have confidence, real confidence. We have had
the chance to work together in the past, and I welcome your leadership of this Department and your ability to bring the change that
it needs. So I am delighted that you are at the helm. I look forward
to collaborating with you in the months ahead.
This is our big opportunity. You know, challenges bring opportunity. We know that, and it is our opportunity to get things right
for the American people, to make the kinds of changes that will affect their health and their safety, their quality of life and their economic livelihood.
Thank you very much for being here this morning.
With that, let me ask ranking member, Mr. Kingston, to make
his opening statement.
MR. KINGSTON OPENING STATEMENT

Mr. KINGSTON. I thank the Chair for yielding.
Mr. Secretary, welcome to this committee; and we certainly look
forward to working with you. I have heard lots of good things about
you; and despite the fact that many of them came from Mr.
Latham, I am still inclined to believe them.
As the loyal opposition here, I want to say something, though,
that sometimes goes beyond this committee. Certainly it does. I am
very concerned, as we all are, about the spending level of this administration so far, a deficit over $1 trillion projected.
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You know, frankly, as Republicans, we did not do a very good job
of controlling spending. We should have done a better job. But it
now seems like those in the administration are using, well, look
what the Republicans did, and so we are going to make it a lot
worse. Your budget, for example, has a 12 percent increase on top
of what I understand, in 2009, is about a $24 billion budget; fiscal
year 10, a $26 billion budget; the stimulus, a $5.7 billion increase.
You know, I am very concerned that this stuff is just getting out
of hand and that in each department of this government we need
to start looking at ways to save. Now, you have rightfully raised
the issue that there was $49 million paid between 2003 and 2006
to ineligible participants in farm programs because their income
was too high. So they certainly should never have gotten that
money, $49 million, for people who did not qualify for it. We want
to join you in trying to stop that and trying to focus in on that
money.
On the same hand, in 2006, overpayments in food stamps was
$1.29 billion. So aboutalmost as high as 5 percent of the food
stamp budget was paid to people who were not qualified for food
stamps. I certainly hope that we can join you in pursuing that and
stopping that. Because anytime that you take money away from
that you were ineligible for, you take it away from somebody who
was eligible for it.
And in the same way, anytime somebody receives a benefit for
not working, whether they were able to work or unable to work,
that benefit was paid for by somebody who worked for it and will
not get compensated for it. And we need to keep that in mind, too.
So I am looking forward to working with you. The USDA is near
and dear to everybody on this committee.
Most of the issues are nonpartisan, but I think that the philosophyand I believe with the last administration my questions
about their spending were the same as my questions will be to you.
I feel that sometimes just we in this town have an inertia towards
spending more as a way of quieting down our critics, rather than
going after some of the tougher decisions and challenging the status quo.
But I will remain a member of the loyal opposition in that respect, because I think we can work with each other on it. And,
again, this is consistent with the questions I asked of the person
previously in your seat.
So I yield back.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Mr. Kingston.
Mr. Secretary, your full testimony will be made a part of the
record, so we will ask you for your testimony. And if you choose to
summarize, we are ready to listen; and then we will move to questions.
Let me welcome Mr. Steele. Thank you so much for being here.
You are a staple on this dais here, Mr. Steele. So we are delighted
to have you with us again this morning. Thank you.
SECRETARY VILSACK OPENING STATEMENT

Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chairman and Representative Kingston and other distinguished members of the Committee, I appre-
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ciate the opportunity to appear before you to discuss the administrations priorities for the Department of Agriculture.
As the Chair indicated, I am joined today by Scott Steele,
USDAs Budget Officer.
President Obama outlined three key goals for the Department of
Agriculture when I agreed to serve as his Secretary of Agriculture.
First, he was very concerned about the health and welfare of
Americas children and wants to make sure our children have access to more nutritious food. Second, he wants to make sure we do
everything we can to expand the capacity of our farms and ranches
and produce alternative forms of energy. Third, he wants to make
sure that we aggressively pursue research necessary to allow agriculture to transition away from its significant dependence on fossil
fuels.
In addition to the Presidents goals, there are several other factors that will shape the direction and focus of this Department.
We face the challenges of protecting our food supply. The recent
food safety emergency, where bad peanut butter products led to
hundreds of illnesses and cost nine people their lives, provides a
painful reminder of how tragic the consequences can be of an irresponsible firm.
It is fairly clear, after my conversations recently with those associated with the peanut industry in Georgia, that they are feeling
the direct consequences of that one companys failure to maintain
a safe and secure product. This illustrates the important role that
food safety plays in protecting not only consumers but the integrity
of markets as well, and it will shape the direction and future of
USDA.
I was proud to announce in my first weeks here at USDA the
publication of a final rule banning the use of nonambulatory or
downer cattle in the food supply. This was an important and longoverdue action that will enhance the safety of the food supply and
improve consumer confidence in our food supply.
I intend to work hard at USDA to modernize and improve the
way we regulate the food supply and to take steps to drive down
the incidence of food-borne illness.
USDA ECONOMIC STIMULUS FUNDING
The financial crisis we are all too familiar with has already
shaped the direction the USDA will be going. With the passage of
the Recovery Act, we have already begun the process of putting
America back to work.
On March 9, I announced the first wave of USDA economic stimulus funding. This funding will have a significant impact not only
in rural communities but in communities across the country struggling with todays tough economic times.
Consistent with the Presidents commitment to implement the
Recovery Act in a manner that is transparent, effective, and efficient, I have established the Department of Agriculture Recovery
Team to oversee the implementation of the Act. This team is headed up by my office, and it includes representatives from all mission
areas that receive funding under this Act.
The projects announced on May 9 are just the first accomplishments for the team. They are continuing to work diligently to iden-
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tify all actions that need to be taken to expend the money, including the identification of projects that can receive funds and expend
them quickly, while establishing accountability systems or mitigating potential implementation risks.
Following the guidance established by the Office of Management
and Budget, we will be able to demonstrate to the public that their
dollars are being invested in initiatives and strategies that make
a difference in their communities and across the country.
2008 FARM BILL FUNDING
The current drop in commodity prices and difficulties of drought

and other severe weather faced by large areas of farm country add
another level of complexity to the work we have before us. To address these challenges, we must implement the 2008 Farm Bill in
the manner intended by Congress and provide farmers with a robust safety net and protections from market disruptions, weather
disasters, pests, and disease that threaten the viability of American
agriculture.
Today, I would like to use this forum to make three announcements in the area of the farm safety net that should help producers
struggling with recent downturns in commodity prices.
First, in the dairy sector, in addition to last weeks announcement of USDAs utilization of 200 million pounds of nonfat dry
milk for school feeding programs and the TEFAP program, I would
also like to announce that this week USDA will be making milkincome-lost contract payments.
Secondly, I announced today that USDA is making bonus commodity purchases to aid struggling parts of the farm sector through
USDAs section 32 authority. These purchases are in the amounts
of $30 million for walnuts, $25 million for pork, $60 million for turkey, and $2 million for lamb.
Lastly, in response to concerns I have heard from producers worried about the upcoming June deadline for farm program sign-up,
I am announcing today that USDA will be extending the sign-up
deadline to August 14. This action should provide producers with
sufficient time to learn about the new ACRE Program and to make
informed decisions about their sign-up options.
We also have an important role in working hard to expand exports for our agriculture products. It is significant that, while the
country as a whole has a trade deficit, agriculture has a trade surplus. We need to continue to work hard, both in Washington and
in our offices overseas, to encourage greater exports of American
products.
The agriculture census also reveals some significant trends that
will guide the Departments directions over the next several years.
A significant trend was the decline of middle-sized farms. Some of
these folks probably migrated into larger-sales category, but many
went out of business.
Another rather startling fact is that, of the 2.2 million ranchers
and farmers in this country today, 900,000 of them, almost half,
have to work off the farm at least 200 days. That is pretty much
a full-time job. When you factor in the average age of a farmer is
increasing, a 30 percent increase in the number of farmers over the
age of 75 and a 20 percent decrease in the number of farmers
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under the age of 25, you see that we are at a critical juncture in
rural America.
So you take all of thatthe Presidents instructions, current
events, the financial challenge in the stimulus package, and the
trends in agricultureand what it tells me is that we have a lot
of work to do.
But with these challenges come historical opportunities for agriculture in rural America. I look forward to working together with
this committee and all of our stakeholders to capture these opportunities for long-term benefit for producers and all Americans.
With the funding in the Recovery Act and the Presidents 2010
budget, we have the capacity to capitalize on these opportunities.
We intend to approach these issues with much greater transparency and the involvement of the full diversity of stakeholders
we serve.
USDA KEY PRIORITIES
I would like to give you an overview of our key priorities. Recent

economic woes have caused a dramatic increase in the number of
Americans needing support through nutrition assistance programs
operated by USDA. Most notably, participation in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program has increased by 4.2 million
Americans in the last 12 months, for a total of 31.8 million participants monthly.
The Recovery Act funding for SNAP will be released by April 1.
Not only will this funding provide critically needed support for millions of Americans having trouble acquiring a nutritious diet, it
will also have an immediate effect on stimulating the economy.
Participation in the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for
Women, Infants, and Children has also continued to grow substantially this year, averaging nearly 9 million participants monthly
through December of 2008.
Consistent with the Presidents commitment to present an honest, transparent budget, we are including sufficient resources in
our budget request to support estimated participation in all of the
nutritional assistance programs, including an estimated average
participation of 9.8 million in the WIC program in 2010. This will
ensure that all eligible individuals seeking to participate will, in
fact, be served.
The health care crisis dictates the need to promote improved nutrition. As reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, research shows that being obese during childhood and adolescence is associated with being overweight during adulthood.
The Department can play a key role in addressing the dual
issues of childhood obesity and alleviating hunger by improving
program access and enhancing the nutritional quality of school
meals. We have an enormous opportunity this year as we reauthorize the child nutrition and WIC programs. An indication of our
commitment to this important issue is that the administration is
proposing an additional $1 billion annually to improve the child nutrition programs.
As part of reauthorization, I look forward to working with Congress to improve the quality and nutrition of meals served, expanding nutrition research and evaluation, encouraging greater con-
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sumption of fruits and vegetables, which I consider anytime foods,
and reducing the consumption of nonnutritious foods commonly
found in vending machines, particularly in elementary and middle
schools. Efforts in this area will also offer great opportunities for
farmers, particularly specialty crop producers, who will benefit
from greater emphasis on fruits, vegetables, and nuts in the diets
of American school children.
Further, we can enhance the success of local food systems. Our
international food aid program, such as the McGovern-Dole International Food for Education and Child Nutrition and P.L. 480 Title
II programs are critical to addressing food insecurity throughout
the world.
At the same time, however, we must go beyond providing commodities, and we must also support efforts to increase agricultural
production and develop agricultural sectors in food insecure regions. Economic development not only helps these countries but
also helps the United States, because as their economies grow they
become more active trading partners.
We also see a number of opportunities for farmers and ranchers
to capitalize on emerging domestic markets.
Agriculture has demonstrated a capacity to help meet Americas
energy needs with clean, renewable fuels, but our success to date
is only a small part of the potential in this area. The Department
will expand renewable energy opportunities and the capacity of our
land, our farms, and our ranches to produce alternative forms of
energy and fuel; and I look forward to working with the committee
on these efforts to promote renewable energy technologies.
We also need to ensure we provide American farmers with a robust safety net, including supporting independent producers and
local and organic agriculture and enforcing the Packers and Stockyards Act.
NEW TECHNOLOGIES
We also need to take advantage of new technologies like biotechnology, which will create new opportunities for jobs and increase productivity. And we can develop programs that recognize
the value of farming in protecting the environment, while assisting
producers in transitioning from traditional farm programs to market-based environmental service markets.
USDA is going to support developing markets that reward producers for sequestering carbon and limiting greenhouse gas emissions. Through the authority provided under the Farm Bill of 2008,
we will address the metrics and certifications associated with environmental services of conservation and certain land management
activities to facilitate the participation of farmers, ranchers, and
forest land owners in emerging environmental service markets.
We will also increase research and analytical capabilities and
conduct government-wide coordination activities to encourage the
establishment of markets for these ecosystem services.
You are going to see a major effort, starting with the implementation of the Recovery Act and continuing through the implementation of the Farm Bill, to rebuild and revitalize rural communities
in this country.
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Of great importance to me, the budget proposal and Recovery Act
are consistent with the administrations efforts to ensure that all
of rural America will have access to quality broadband service,
which is essential to keeping pace in a world that relies on rapid
telecommunications.
The 2010 budget, combined with funding from the Recovery Act,
will also provide strong support for homeownership in rural America by making mortgage credit available through direct loans and
guarantees made by private lenders. This combined level of funding
will provide over 165,000 homeownership opportunities for rural
residents. In addition, it contains sufficient funding to assist lowincome tenants of USDA-financed rental housing.
We are also proposing an innovative new initiative in the 2010
budget to support rural revitalization through incentives for teachers working in rural areas and enhancing support for rural research and extension programs at land grant and minority-serving
institutions. These efforts will greatly enhance our ability to
strengthen the capacity of rural America to participate in new economic opportunities that we are developing, including renewable
energy and environmental services markets.
Madam Chair, I am aware of your deep interest in food safety.
I share that interest. I want to work with you and members of this
committee to ensure that we have the food safety system that we
need to protect consumers. This should be a system that eliminates
hazards before they have an opportunity to make anyone sick, but,
in the event they do, a system that rapidly identifies and responds
to the threat. To that end, you are going to see a very significant
effort on our part to improve the safety and security of our food
system.
On March 14, the President kicked off that effort by establishing
a new Food Safety Working Group, of which I am a member. We
will advise the President on how we can upgrade our food safety
laws for the 21st century, foster coordination through government,
and ensure that we are not just designing laws that will keep the
American people safe but also enforcing them.
As I mentioned earlier, I am committed to implementing the
2008 Farm Bill in a timely and effective manner. This is a tremendous undertaking for the Department, and I know that USDA employees share my commitment. We appreciate the funding included
in the Recovery Act that will facilitate implementation of the Farm
Bill.
I want to thank the committee for providing the $50 million in
recovery funds for IT stabilization and modernization for Farm
Service Agency. We will continue to work with this committee to
ensure that we have the resources necessary for further modifications to these IT systems, which are a critical asset needed to effectively and efficiently implement the Farm Bill and related programs.
President Obama is very clear that this budget will be transparent to the American people. It will fully account for the cost to
operate government. As I described earlier, our budget meets that
test. The President, in his address to Congress, stressed that we
are reviewing all of our options for wasteful and ineffective spending. Therefore, the 2010 budget reflects the elimination of ear-
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marks and funding for programs that are not as high a priority as
others I have mentioned or provide services that can be supported
by other means.
CIVIL RIGHTS POLICY
Finally, I would like to address one last area where the Department has a disturbing history. For far too long the image of the
USDA has been marred by discrimination in the delivery of its programs and its employment practices. One of my first actions since
arriving at the Department was to issue a civil rights policy statement that stated that discrimination will not be tolerated at USDA.
To achieve this goal, we are dedicating resources necessary to improve the civil rights process within the Department.
On February 26, 2009, the President released an overview of the
2010 budget. The details of the budget proposal will be released
later in the spring. We have begun the process of making tough decisions about where our priorities lie, and we have made some
tough choices about where to invest our resources. These choices
reflect the new direction the President wants this country to take
at a historic time. In my view, the President is on the right track,
the track that takes this Nation on the path to recovery, provides
the foundation for diverse opportunities for farmers and ranchers
to succeed as they play an increasingly important role in the 21st
century American economy.
Madam Chair, that concludes my statement, and I will be
pleased to take questions at this time.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.
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173
FOOD SAFETY
Ms. DELAURO. Let me just pick up on the food safety issue, if I

might, and just get some more information from you and how you
see this effort moving forward.
It was after the peanut butter debacle you said you favored a single food agency. I dont think you have given more details yet about
what you would like to see. Can you expand on the thinking, your
thinking on this issue? Do we need a single food agency? If so, how
should it be structured? Where, in your view, should it be located?
USDA? FDA? An independent agency?
You mentioned the independent Food Safety Working Group, and
I understand that two-thirds of the working group has yet to be
confirmed but would like to get your thoughts on this issue of a
single food agency.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, first and foremost, lets start with the
statistical basis for our concern. According to recent data, 75 million Americans suffer a food-borne illness at some point in time
during the year, 325,000 of them are hospitalized, and over 5,000
die.
I think most in this committeeall of this committee and all of
Congress would admit that those numbers are startling and unacceptable and reflect the need for us to reform the system.
I appreciate the President directing myself and the Secretary of
Health and Human Services to head up this working group for the
purpose of determining the appropriate steps to improve our food
safety system. I anticipate that this working group will work in
concert with staff, once the confirmations take place, to begin the
process of asking the critical question, what steps do we have to
take?
And I think the first question that has to be asked is, what is
the controlling philosophy behind the food safety system? Is it one
of prevention or is it one of mitigation?
It seems to me that today what we have is a circumstance where
we may have competing philosophies. With USDA focused primarily on prevention through its inspection regulation system, the
FDA, because of the quantity of work that it is required to do and
the fact that it has probably been difficult for them to do all the
work they have to do with the staffing requirements that they are
currently meeting, they have been focused on mitigation.
I think, first and foremost, we have to focus on the right philosophy. I dont want to prejudge the work of the working group or
of this committee or of this Congress, but I would suggest that it
would make sense for us to focus on prevention and focus in a way
in which we are able to identify, as you indicated in your statement, the most significant risk and focus our time and attention
and resources on making sure that we address those risks aggressively.
RISK-BASED ASSESSMENT PILOT PROJECT
We have started that process at USDA with a series of pilot

projects, where we are working on a risk-based assessment process.
I will tell you, Madam Chair, we still have much to learn about
that system. We have a lot to learn about how data is collected,
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how it is evaluated, and what needs to be done in order to be comfortable that that is the right approach. I think we are on the right
track, but I think we have a ways to go.
Once you have the right philosophy, then it seems to me that the
next step in the process is to make sure that you actually coordinate between the various agencies that are involved. As you well
know, we have 15 separate agencies in this government that have
some piece of food safety.
I have had conversations with Secretary Napolitano about Customs and about APHIS and the role that APHIS can play in increasing training for Customs. We have, obviously, conversations
that will take place with HHS about the interactions and coordination.
Once we have that in place, then I think we can get to the structure, the structural questions, the organizational structure questions. And I really think that it would be inappropriate for me, at
this point in time, to say it should be in one agency or another or
a separate agency. I think that the process needs to work so that
it can be as informed a policy decision as we can possibly make.
But, clearly, we need to work on harmonizing the philosophy on
making sure that there is better coordination and on making sure
that the questions related to any risk-based process have been fully
answered.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Secretary, I appreciate what you are saying.
What I know about evaluating processes in this institution and in
agencies, et cetera, we could take a very, very, very long time to
get where we need to go. I dont think we have time to get where
we need to go. We have to be thoughtful in this process. There isnt
any question about that.
But you also have trains leaving the station; and, in the House,
you have food-safety legislation that is in the process of being put
together by the Energy and Commerce Committee, which is the authorizing committee.
You have a number of ideasand I dont have to reiterate, you
know, my own approach on this effort. But my suggestion is that
this administration is going to have to weigh in on a direction to
take before we put into place legislation that may not get us where
we wanted to go in terms of food safety and the kinds of structures
that get us to be able to get the information that we need.
It wasnt too long ago on this subcommittee that we were told
that FSIS was moving headlong into risk-based inspection. You
cant do anything on risk-based unless you have the data on which
to move. Ultimately, FSIS and the Department viewed that our
concerns were legitimate. So they held off in that area. And I am
proud to say that as a subcommittee, both Democrats and Republicans, we held them off in moving in a direction that I believe
would have not been helpful.
But my point is that we need to begin and to have an administration begin to take a stand on where we are and where we want
to go. We have opportunities to put into place the pillars that will
get us toand I am not going to put words in your mouth, but just
to say that if we have 15 agencies today that are dealing with this
issue and we are unsuccessful at dealing with food safety, given the
current structure, with no single individual being responsible for
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food safety in this countrynot one person has ultimate responsibilitythat leads me toward a single agency.
It may be that as an interim goal, as we take a look at where
the bulk of the difficulties have beenand I think we need to review FSIS and the HACCP process. It has been in placewhat
14 years or so. What does it do? But it was a very formidable response to an emergency with Jack in the Box years ago.
We are in an emergency situation today. We cannot afford to
take months and months and months of deliberation before we say
to the American people, the Federal Government is going to take
on this responsibility, try to do something about making sure the
food supply is protected. FDAand you dont have jurisdiction over
FDA, so I am not asking you to comment on the FDAbut it has
been reaction and not prevention, and prevention needs to be the
order of the day.
But if we do not do something other than increasing resources,
which we have done with the FDA, but restructuring it in a way
that puts food safety on its own, drug safety on its own, and make
sure that there is an individual who is responsible for food safety,
we are not going to get to where we want to go as the oversight
of this effort, and we are not going to get to go where either FDA
or you want to go at USDA on where we deal with food safety in
this country.
Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chairman, if I could react to that.
Ms. DELAURO. Sure.
Secretary VILSACK. First of all, I did not want to leave the impression with my answer that we dont understand the urgency of
the circumstance. We certainly do. And the expectation, I think,
that the President has is that we get to a set of recommendations
in a very quick order.
So, first and foremost, we do understand the urgency; and we are
anxious to get to work. I am a little bit hampered because of the
fact that two-thirds of the folks who are integral to this process
have not yet been confirmed, and I have not had an opportunity
to actually have conversations with them and feel it to be appropriate that in order for that working group to do its work well that
we have a conversation, number one.
Number two, there is no question that whatever system is ultimately devised has to be a system that provides for specific accountability. I would agree with you that when you have got 15
separate agencies in the Federal Government responsible for some
part
Ms. DELAURO. No one is accountable.
Secretary VILSACK [continuing]. You have got way too many, and
it becomes very difficult for you or for a consumer or for a taxpayer
to know precisely who to hold accountable when there is a problem,
and we ought to be about accountability. So please understand I
share that with you.
And as far as reviewing the processes, we ought to be doing that
as a matter of business. Every year we ought to be reviewing our
processes to make sure that we are doing as good a job as we possibly can.
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So we would agree with you on that score as well; and we intend
to be very aggressive on this, very, very aggressive, because we understand that peoples lives are at stake.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
Mr. Kingston.
Mr. KINGSTON. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Mr. Secretary, also, let me emphasize the frustrationas a committee member, so much of the discussion seems to be superficial.
FOOD-BORNE ILLNESSES
For example, last week, we had a very good hearing on food safety, but one of the business association witnesses said to us that we
should double the funding of the FDA. So I asked him, well, what
was the funding increase last year? He didnt know, but he thought
we should double it. Then he said he thought it was about $40 million. So I said, so we should double that to $80 million? He said
yes. I said, well, are you aware that the actual increase last year,
plus in the omnibus and in the stimulus, gave an increase of $300
million to the FDA? And he was not aware of that. And I asked
him, do you still think we should double it? And he said yes.
Well, I mean, that is kind of a silly discussion.
Now, along with him at the table was an IG witness from HHS,
and he actually had a figure of 300,000 people a year are hospitalized. Interestingly enough, I think the CDC uses 250; you just said
350.
But I asked him, of those who were hospitalized, can you tell us
what type food? Because, surely, there is a trend that meat may
have more food-borne illnesses than fruit, for example. Maybe
blended products have something. Maybe perishables will have
more than nonperishable. Maybe there is an import issue.
And the composition of the people who got ill, what age are they?
Did the 5,000 who died, for example, did they have a pre-existing
illness unrelated yet something that would weaken their immune
system?
All these are relevant questions, and yet the IG had no idea of
the breakdown of the 300,000 number.
Are you aware of the breakdown of that number?
Secretary VILSACK. I am not as I sit here today, Representative.
Mr. KINGSTON. And I understand, because of what you were just
saying, you dont have your key people right now in place.
Secretary VILSACK. That is a fair observation, and it is also fair
to say that there are many causes for food-borne illness which may
not be necessarily related to how food is grown or is harvested or
is processed. But there is still an issue here, and I think the American public is very concerned when they read about something as
much of a staple as peanut butter is, that they cant basically trust
their peanut butter source. I think that is basically a concern for
folks.
I mean, I have actually watched people in grocery stores hesitate
at the aisle before they reach for peanut butter; and I have heard
representatives from the peanut industry talk about the effect it
has had on the peanut industry.
So I understand what you are saying. I think we should make
informed decisions, and we should have as much data as we pos-
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sibly can to be able to determine what direction, where the resources need to be handled.
But I do think, first and foremost, you have to have the right
philosophy. And is the philosophy mitigation where basically a
problem occurs and you try to contain it? Or is the philosophy we
are going to try to do whatever we can to make sure that it is prevented by making sure that it is produced right, it is processed
right, and it is also handled right and that consumers are well educated on precisely how to handle food.
So this is not an easy issue. It is complicated, and your desire
for more data is an appropriate one.
Mr. KINGSTON. I think it is very important that we have good information that if there is a particular type of food that may have
recurring problems and where is the breakdown, that is where we
should start in order to be the most effective, to get the most bang
for the buck initially.
And the other part of it is the people who got ill, how much of
that was because of something they did in the kitchen that had absolutely nothing to do with the process? And then we also know
from CDC witnesses in the past that plays a major part of this discussion.
Secretary VILSACK. It does, and I think it emphasizes the need
for government agencies like USDA and FDA to do an increasingly
vigilant job about educating consumersand the food industry on
educating consumers on precisely what they can and cannot, what
they should and should not do.
PISTACHIOS
Mr. KINGSTON. Do you know, by the way, how many people have
gotten sick from pistachios?
Secretary VILSACK. Today? I mean, in terms of the announcement today?
Mr. KINGSTON. Yes.
Secretary VILSACK. I dont believe any have. There is a concern
that they may get sick, and so the recall has taken place.
And, as the chairwoman suggested, it is sort of we are waiting
to see.
Mr. KINGSTON. Well, I read an article that said two people had
actually gotten sick. But the reason why I say that, Madam Chairmanand I know you want to say something here, so
Ms. DELAURO. I am just saying it is an FDA issue. And I know
we have got USDA here, but I would just tell you, you have read
something that I havent read.
It said two peopleit is a million pounds of pistachio products
because of salmonella; and it says, so far, no illnesses have been
tied to the contaminated pistachios, although authorities were investigating at least two consumer complaints. FDA warned consumers not to eat the pistachios until the scope of the contamination was clear. So hold on to the pistachios, but dont eat them.
Mr. KINGSTON. Well, one of the things that I think is important
in terms of the way the FDA has investigated food illnesses is to
assume all the product is guilty. And, as we know, what happens
as a result of that, people dont want to buy anything, and people
deny themselves eating this product.
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Now, I am sure Mr. Farr knows more about pistachios than I do,
but Mr. Bishop and I were involved more in the peanut situation,
and peanuts are good nutritional products that people need to be
eating for their own health. But when all peanut butter is considered to be taboo, then they dont eat it.
And so there isit is not just a commercial implication that,
okay, the industry is losing millions of dollars because of FDA shotgunning everything rather than lasering in on where the real problem is, but it denies the consumer the use of that product.
The summer before it was tomatoes, which, certainly, tomatoes
are a great part of your diet for daily consumption; and yet no one
could eat tomatoes for 6 weeks or something.
And so one of the things I think this committee is frustrated
about is just the broad blanket that is thrown across a commodity
when something happens.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, it is a difficult circumstance, because
people are really busy, and they are trying to take care of their
children. And they come home, and they turn on the news, and
they hear a report about a particular company and a particular
product, and they may make an assumption about all of the products.
And, you know, that is a difficult assumption to overcome. With
time, we do overcome it. With time, markets are restored. But
there is obviously pain and difficulty during that period of time.
Again, I think if we create a prevention philosophy and if we
focus on really identifying, as you suggested, with data where the
risks are, making sure that we spend the time and resources to
minimize those risks, we might be in a better situation to more
specifically pinpoint the exact problem, be able to explain that to
the consumer and make sure that they understand that it is this
company as opposed to all companies.
Mr. KINGSTON. I know I am out of time, but just to conclude, for
example, the tragic death of the NFL football players off the coast
of Florida while fishing the other day, represent a coastal area, the
factors are so important. You had a small-craft advisory. You had
an anchoring that was a wrong way to anchor the boat. There were
a lot of mistakes that were made.
So analyzing a problem is always very, very important; and I feel
like in the USDA and FDA we are not analyzing this thing as
much as we are just rattling the issue and, you know, all the good
and the bad gets mixed in at once.
So, thank you.
Mr. FARR. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Governor and Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. I am very
excited about your taking on this big responsibility.
FOOD RECALLS
I just wanted to comment on Mr. Kingstons point that these

markets dont always recover. I represent the spinach growers in
Salinas Valley, specialty crops; and that product has never recovered from the recall.
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I think what, I think the confusion here that the Chair brought
out is that, essentially, the warning goes out by FDA, but the impact of the recall is really on USDA.
And I would hope, from your standpoint of being a Governor and
doing emergency response, you have got to sit down with FDA and
have them work on what I call crisis communication. You know,
dont alarm the patient. At the same time, try to get the news out.
Because some of these recalls just have consequences that are economically devastating. You just dont recover from it. And I think
the FDAs, you know, broad brush yells fire. And I would hope that
you might work on that.
CHILD NUTRITION PROGRAMS
But I want to take time today, because I have been very interested in going out to schools in my areathere are a lot of poor
children thereand dealing with the school lunch program, school
food services. And what I have learnedI mean, one of your departments is Food and Nutrition Service, which is, frankly, one of
the biggest users of the USDA dollars. It is a $62 billion department. It was created back in 1962. It is now 40 years old. It has
got a 62interesting, yes, $62 billionalmost $1 billion a year.
You have 15 separate nutrition assistance programs. Those are
divided into five categories: food stamps; child nutrition; special
supplemental, which is the WIC program; and the Commodity Assistance Program; and what they call nutrition administration,
which is the Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion.
One of the big programs is child nutrition. In that, here is where
you have been talking about wasteful spending. I hope you will
turn your agency upside down to look at how you can better administer this. You would be amazed.
This could be the same kid in the same school who qualifies for
the school breakfast program, then has to qualify separately for a
school lunch program, and then may also qualify for the child and
adult-care food program and may qualify, if he is there, in the summer food programwhich we have now been able to at least get
the summer breakfast and the summer food program combined.
Butguess whatwe have a lot of schools that dont have summers anymore because they have year-round schools. So there is
confusion there. And then a special milk program.
All of these are withinand we have to qualify them by
verifying, one, that the parent is low-income, or, in some cases, you
have some school breakfastsI think it is more universal feeding.
But the bureaucracy at the school level is just unbelievable and
the cost of having to buy the computers to verify that each day that
student came and ate the food and the food was nutritious.
Now what happens is, because you have also got in that the commodity program, which is where we are getting our commodities
sloughed off on schools. Now, a lot of schools dont have preparatory kitchens anymore. So they sendthey dont want bags of
wheat and rice sent to them. So what they do is they say we will
work with the processors. And guess what the processors do? They
add salt, and they add sugar, and they add other things.
So now you have got processed food, and some of the inner-city
school districts get no fresh. They may get an apple and an orange,
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but you are not going to have a plate with fresh lettuce or any of
those other kinds of things that are part of your nutrition advocacy.
And I think it is terrific.
But this program, if we just cleaned up the administration, for
example, there is a pilot request of you to get a grant program to
try out using the Medicare tapes in California to qualify the children. They have done this withoutyou know, done it on trial.
They are finding they have more qualifications under that than
they do trying to get the parent to verify.
So I think the two things that you could do that would, one, save
a lot of wasteful spending and allow you to spend more money on
fresh fruits and vegetables and getting them into schools is just the
administrative costs of combining those five programs, all the
school programs. And one is consolidating them and administratively using technology to qualify the students.
So the question is about will you do this? Nobody has taken it
on. And at the school level it is a mess, and I would just like to
see you committing to taking that on. We are going to reauthorize
that bill this year, and it needs some leadership from the Department of Agriculture to take on the consolidation and simplification
of the qualifications.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, Representative, I think you make an
excellent point. I think there is a need for greater efficiency within
this program so that schools are spending less time on paperwork
and more time on teaching our children and making sure that they
have access to quality meals and making sure that they have appropriate physical activity to keep them active.
I think that is important, and I think it is also important for us
to address the concerns that Representative Kingston alluded to
earlier, which is to make sure that, as we do these programs, that
we are conscious of making sure that we do them properly and that
there arent erroneous payments. It is a combination of both of
those.
Ms. DELAURO. But that process of erroneous payments, I mean,
if you use these Medicare tapes and food stamp tapes, they are
automatically qualified.
Secretary VILSACK. I am agreeing with you. I am just simply saying that it is important for us to keep both of those concepts in
mind, and I can assure you that we are working on programs similar to what you have outlined to propose and suggest in the reauthorization.
Mr. FARR. And will we see these grants awarded soon, I mean,
the applications for these pilot programs?
Secretary VILSACK. We have been focusing on trying to get the
under secretaries in place. We are trying to work expeditiously. We
are trying to make sure that what we do is all coordinated in terms
of the reauthorization so that we have a consistent plan. So we are
working as hard as we possibly can, as quickly as we can, to get
money in place.
We are also trying to put money out in terms of equipment. You
mentioned the issue of school equipment. We appreciate the money
that was put in the Recovery and Reinvestment Act. We are trying
to get those grants out as quickly as we can as well so that schools
arent actually in a process to cook them and to process the food,
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requiring some processor to put sugar and salt in it, as you suggested.
Mr. FARR. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Mr. Farr.
I justto support something that Mr. Farr was talking about, it
is interestinglast year, FNS testified payment accuracy rates for
food stamps had improved steadily over 8 years and were at near
record-high levels.
I was going to mention this a little later on, which we will talk
about a little later on. I dont know how we can say that the same
about farm payments, but we certainly are down pretty low in
terms of the food stamp program.
Mr. Latham.
FARM PAYMENTS
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you, Madam Chairman. And I wanted to

continue the discussion about food and food safety, but you brought
up farm payments, so I will do that.
I am sure you have heard, and I certainly have, a lot of concern
in farm country about some of the proposals. I would like to know
the rationale, I guess, for the $500,000 gross sales, doing away
with direct payments, and the $250,000 payment limitation. I have
heard not only from constituents out there, but also certainly here
talking to my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, that no one
wants to open up the farm bill again to make those kind of
changes. I think the Senate Budget Committee took a vote, and it
was taken down. How do you respond to the proposals?
And just as one other issue involved with the payment issue,
there is a new requirementI guess it is not required technically
to sign a statement that you will release the records from the IRS
to USDA to be eligible for payment. You dont have to do it, but
then you dont get payments unless you do it.
Anyone around here, I think, has, over the yearsmaybe doesnt
have total confidence in the integrity of some of the systems as far
as protecting that very important personal information, but I just
want to know your response to those things.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, first of all, let me talk a little bit about
the budget and try to respond to your question of why we set it up
the way we did.
We recognized that the President had some very specific priorities that he wanted to see reflected in his USDA budget. Priority
number one was an increased resource in child nutrition, to make
sure that our youngsters had access to fruits and vegetables and
more nutritious food. He also had as a priority expanding renewable energy opportunities as an economic development tool for
rural America.
Recognizing that those were significant increases in the budget,
we looked for things that we could point to that would allow us to
also keep in mind the need to be more fiscally responsible over the
course of time to make sure that we returned to a time when we
werent dealing with trillion-dollar deficits. If there is one distinction between where we are today and where we were when we
were debating the farm bill, it is that, we are in an economic circumstance and situation where we are faced with very, very sub-
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stantial deficits over time, and we have to control them in some
way.
There are many ways to do that, and I am sure that Congress
is considering many ways, and they will obviously make their
choices. We decided to focus on the top 3 to 4 percent of producers
who are in that category of more than $500,000 in sales, representing roughly 90,000 producers of the 2.2 million farmers and
ranchers. We kept in place all of the other safety net programs, the
countercyclical program, the ACRE program, the SURE program.
All those programs were obviously still available to those individuals, and we phased it over a 3-year period. So it involved a very
small percentage of farmers, but those farmers were receiving
about, as we calculated, roughly 30 percent of the direct payments.
The other farmers would still be able to get their direct payments
and still qualify.
It is a choice. Obviously, as you all take a look at that notion of
fiscal responsibility and maintaining some degree of responsibility,
you are going to have to make choices. Well, that is a choice we
made, and that is basically the philosophy behind it and the reason
why we proposed it, as we did with others.
As it relates to the IRS, it seems to me that we have a responsibility to taxpayers and to Congress to make sure that the programs
that you all pass are administered as well as they can be administered. And we have to accept accountability and responsibility
when we administer them in a way where people get payments
that they are not entitled to receive.
If the farm bill restrictions that are currently in place referencing direct payment limits, countercyclical payment limits,
overall limits, if they were in place today, that number of 40some
million would actually be closer to $90 million in overpayments. So
in an effort to try to make sure that we corrected that circumstance, we are simply asking farmers to give us the ability to
check with the Internal Revenue Service.
It is not a matter of having tax returns at the local FSA office;
that is not the way it is going to happen. It is going to be a relatively smallvery, very smallpercentage of farmers who will be
checked periodically to make sure that we are doing a better job
of making sure that payments that are supposed to be received by
folks are getting to the folks who are supposed to get them. It is
a matter of accountability.
Mr. LATHAM. I would reiterate that people are very, very concerned about privacy, and that USDAs track record as far as information technology and being able to keep anything is mixed, to say
the least.
Secretary VILSACK. That is a fair observation. We will take that
back, and we will try to make sure that we address those concerns.
But at some point in time you have to make sure that the payments are getting to people who are entitled to them and not to
people who arent. And for the most part, we are not talking about
farmers getting these payments, we are talking about folks who
really arent on the farm getting payments.
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. DELAURO. I would just add to that, if I could, Mr. Latham,
that the GAO report found that because USDA did not have the
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ability to verify income, the Department paid more than $49 million to ineligible wealthy farmers and landowners.
Further, assuming that we might have a question in this area
with regard to the IRS, I checked with the Ways and Means Committee, and it would appear that there are many programs, from
food stamps on up, that receive information from the IRS. So there
really is a whole lot of precedent in this area in a whole variety
of programs that have to supply some of this information. This is
not a new incarnation and a group of people who would be subject
to something for the first time.
Mr. Bishop.
Mr. BISHOP. Thank you very much.
CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIONS
Welcome, Mr. Secretary. And let me just take this opportunity to

congratulate you on your hitting the ground running. And particularly, let me just first comment on the frank and forthright way
that you have addressed the civil rights issue. I think that speaks
highly of you, of the tenor of your character in dealing with a problem that has been systemic and has aggravated the image and the
functioning of the Department for years and years and years. So
I want to congratulate you on that.
I also congratulate you on the selection of Dr. Joe Leonard as the
proposed Assistant Secretary of Civil Rights. I think he has a
strong background, and I think he will certainly be able to be quite
helpful in that capacity.
RURAL AMERICA INITIATIVES
I have got three areas of concern that I want to mention. The

first has to do with rural America. Through your testimony it is
very clear that through the stimulus bill, the farm bill, and your
budget proposals, that this administration is going to place a great
deal of emphasis on rural America. And we are very, very delightful that you are taking and the administration is taking that focus.
I represent a congressional district that has 32 mostly rural
counties, 29 of the 32, and, of course, more than half of the counties
in my district are classified as persistent poverty counties. Representative Emerson has, I think, a very similar district, and I
think she has taken a lot of initiatives in rural poverty.
I want to just elevate the issue. And, of course, in the budget and
the stimulus and the farm bill, you emphasize broadband and
working with the Commerce Department; $20 billion in loans, loan
guarantees, grants; homeownership for rural America, which is
great; creating jobs, 165,000; and, of course, 280 families that are
impacted by rental housing. You emphasize infrastructure with
water treatment, waste disposal, rural research; an extension with
the minority-serving institutions; and the microentrepreneur assistance programs, with grants to nonprofits for technical assistance, and loans of up to $50,000 for small businesses in rural
areas. All of that is great.
Do you think that it would be helpful, particularly given the economic crisis that we are in, to have the administration have some
White House initiatives on rural America regionally across the
country so that this can be lifted up and given a higher profile, and
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rural communities can see that there is, in fact, an outreach, and
there will be a hand up for rural economic development in these
communities? Because it cuts across every aspect of life, and it also
will help to make these rural communities competitive in the global
marketplace from where they are. And you can respond to that.
PEANUT AND COTTON LOAN PROGRAMS
My other two questions are more technical. They have to do

withof course, you know, I represent a peanut district, I represent cotton, and, of course, your budget reflects some concerns for
us, particularly with regard to peanuts.
Let me just say quickly, you mentioned dairy, involving dairy in
the nutrition programs. Peanuts are suffering tremendously, and so
I would hope that you would consider utilization of peanuts in the
nutrition programs also to help in the recovery as a result of the
unfortunate situation that has happened with our industry.
But with regard to peanuts and cotton, the market and loan program has presented a serious problem. In the 2008 farm bill, the
market and loan program was continued for peanuts as well as for
cotton, but the method by which the loan repayment rate has been
devised is sort of a mystery. It has been set too high to allow peanuts to be competitive in regard to the world market. And with regard to cotton, the market and loan program has been administered in a way in the past that ensured that cotton would be competitive, but now in your budget you indicate that you are going
to terminate the storage credits that are included with the market
and loan for cotton. And, of course, that is going to be very disruptive to marketing and income for farmers.
Can you explain the impact? Do you understand the impact that
both of these will have on farm-producing income and on marketing?
Secretary VILSACK. Representative, in terms of the White House
initiative, let me just briefly respond to that. I think that there is
no question that we will continue to do a job of making sure that
folks in rural America understand and appreciate the wide variety
of programs that are available. I just this week have talked to a
group of community economic development folks about the various
programs that are available. Sometimes people dont know the
breadth of what USDA does, and we need to do a better job of educating people about precisely how we can address housing needs,
multiple-family housing, economic development. We are taking a
look at how we administer our business and industry loan programs to make sure that we focus on quality jobs and make sure
that they are jobs that actually improve the overall well-being of
the communities. The use of the Community Facilities grant money
is another opportunity for us to send a very strong, positive message.
So I think you will continue to see leadership from the White
House addressing the needs of rural Americans specifically, highlighting some of the things that are being done in the Recovery and
Reinvestment Act specifically as it relates to that.
With reference to peanuts, we are monitoring the circumstances
and situation with peanuts, and we are watching it very closely.
We havent seen quite the market disruption that we saw with
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dairy. Dairy was rather dramatic and rather severe and very significant. But we are monitoring that circumstance, and, as conditions merit, we will certainly take action that is appropriate.
With reference to the cotton storage issue, peanuts and cotton
are the only two products that actually get this treatment; peanuts,
of course, through the Commodity Credit Corporation. Cotton
would then be the only one through the traditional budget process.
Our view is that, to a certain extent, it could potentially distort the
market in terms of providing some incentive for storage when perhaps it would be more appropriate not to store it.
Again, this is about choices and priorities. The President was
very clear about what his priorities were, and we obviously have
a mind towards long-term budget impacts.
Mr. BISHOP. May I make just one statement, Madam Chair?
Ms. DELAURO. Yes.
Mr. BISHOP. We worked so hard in the farm bill to try to get that
done, and now it seems like we are undoing all of our work that
was put in the farm bill. And, of course, that was a very sensitive
issue in the farm bill, and, of course, it is very sensitive now for
both peanuts and cotton.
Ms. DELAURO. We will have another round.
Mrs. Emerson.
Mrs. EMERSON. Welcome, Mr. Secretary. Thanks so much for
being here.
I have so many questions, I really dont know where to begin, so
I will just go through your testimony here and start from there.
RURAL BROADBAND
I am really interested how RUS is going to work with the NTIA

to deploy all of the stimulus money for purposes of rural
broadband. For example, I have got small companies who have applied to RUS, who, of course, say that they cant really make any
decisions unless you are the one who makes the decision because
there is not a political appointee yet at RUS. And so we have got
lots of applications waiting there already. And then I talked to the
NTIA guys, and I wasnt really comfortable with the coordination
that was going to occur between the two agencies. Perhaps you can
enlighten us a little bit, please.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, we have made a recommendation for
our RUS Administrator, Mr. Adelstein, who has actually been serving on the FCC and has some telecommunications background. So
we hope that that process moves forward and we are in a position
to get him working as quickly as possible.
I would say that, first and foremost, our focus is going to be on
the unserved areas. We appreciate the fact that monies have been
provided to RUS in the past for this, and that perhaps they have
gone in places where it was about increasing competition and lowering cost as opposed to expanding access. We are looking at creative ways to make the case in these unserved areas that, with
these resources, with grants and loans, we can actually expand access, and that is going to be the measure by which we determine
the success or lack of success of this program.
But we have had a series of public hearings. We are getting
input from folks in terms of how they believe it ought to be struc-
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tured, but our focus primarily is going to be on the unserved areas,
as defined as population centers of 20,000 or less, and metropolitan
areas of 50,000 or less, that are currently unserved by this technology.
This is a very, very important technology. As Governor of Iowa,
we made a very aggressive effort to try to make sure our rural
communities were linked to this for a multitude of reasons. One,
if you are a small business person, it opens up markets beyond
your local markets. Two, if you are a farmer or a rancher, it allows
you to get up-to-date information to better inform decisions that
you have to make about what you are going to plant, when you are
going to plant it, and so forth, and when you are going to sell your
crop or your livestock. Those are very important considerations if
you dont have access to that information.
And third, we want to make USDA services as convenient as possible. That is difficult to do for farmers and ranchers who dont
have the technology and the farm service agencies who dont have
the technology to create better cooperation.
Mrs. EMERSON. Well, hopefully all the money that you have gotten between the omnibus and the stimulus will allow your computer systems to finally start working, because in my districtand
as Sanford Bishop so eloquently said, a majority of my district is
persistent poverty. And we dont have broadband in an awful lot
of places, but also, where we do have it, even my farmers and
ranchers who have to deal with FSA or NRCS, there are certain
times in the afternoon when they either can or cannot access the
system. I mean, this is a subject that we have been talking about
it was not one of my questions, but I cant resist at least raising
it.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, we will certainly begin the process with
the resources that this committee fought for and got for us in the
Recovery and Reinvestment Act. I dont want this committee to believe that that is all that we need in order to actually modernize
the system. It will take more time and more resources, but it is
something we need to focus on.
One other thing in terms of your question, we are meeting on a
regular basis with NTIA, and we are also intending to have sort
of a joint application and a coordinated process. So I think you will
see coordination with reference to these issues.
Mrs. EMERSON. That is good. That is going to be very helpful, I
think.
DEVELOPING ENERGY MARKETS
Let me ask you another question. I was reading your testimony

last night, and you talk about developing markets that will reward
producers for sequestering carbon and limiting greenhouse gas
emissions. And they will then facilitate the participation of farmers, ranchers and forest landowners in the emerging environmental
services markets.
Here is something that is very worrisome to me with regard to
the whole cap-and-trade, greenhouse gas, climate change debate.
And it is not that I am not in favor of doing everything that we
can to sequester carbon and the like, but during the negotiations
on the Kyoto Protocol, both in Kyoto and in Buenos Aires, Argen-
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tina, when the United States tried to get a one-for-one credit, if you
will, for farmland, as well as for forestry, we were totally rebuffed
at every step of the way. And this is during the Clinton administration. I was at those negotiations.
And so, anyway, it worries me that we try to create these markets and make promises, but yet, in the international arena, if you
will, we arent going to be able to get, as a carbon sync or a credit
for our farmland and/or forests, the appropriate cost factor, and so
it is going to end up penalizing our farmers.
I am out of time, so maybe we ought to come back to that, Rosa,
do you think?
Ms. DELAURO. Why dont you respond briefly.
Secretary VILSACK. I will try to briefly respond to it. I think that
wewe meaning the collective we, globallycontinue to learn
more and more about how these markets will be set up and structured. I see this as a great transition taking place in this country
from an economy that was focused on waste and pollution to an
economy that is focused on clean energy and clean jobs. I think agriculture needs to be part of that, and I think it needs to be an integral part of it.
We are a relatively small part of the greenhouse gases that are
being placed into the atmosphere, but I think we can be a huge
part of the solution. And as we structure and as we create these
new systems in this transition, I want to make sure agriculture is
at the table, and I want to make sure that they understand that
I believe there will be benefits, there will be offsets, there will be
ways in which we can reward farmers for doing the right thing
with their land for themselves and for all of us.
Mrs. EMERSON. Okay. We will come back to this later. Thanks.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you.
I just want to support Mrs. Emerson in the notion that we
should not let NTIA slow down the RUS in terms of those applications, Mr. Secretary. We need to move quickly in trying to deal
with those underserved areas.
Secretary VILSACK. Our hope is that we have three rounds of
awards starting this spring.
Ms. DELAURO. You have got a program; they dont.
Mr. Jackson.
Mr. JACKSON. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I just want to
make an observation before I ask Secretary Vilsack a couple of
questions.
I have noticed that most of the questions from todays panelists
and Members have come after the red light has come on. I am assuming that there is great leniency with the gavel
Ms. DELAURO. There is always leniency in this committee because it is about a discussion; but nevertheless, let us try to get
the questions in before the red light goes on.
Mr. JACKSON. I appreciate that, Madam Chairman.
SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAM
Mr. Secretary, I represent a congressional district, parts of which

were formerly represented by State senator Barack Obama, and
then United States Senator Barack Obama, and obviously President Barack Obama. I want to, first and foremost, be the first
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member of this committee to invite you to come to my congressional district to have lunch with me, along with Mr. Steele, at a
couple of high schools very familiar to the President and elementary schools familiar to the President, to have lunch and experience
what those kids are eating, and then, at the appropriate time,
make a judgment, hopefully, in your office to determine whether or
not you think that the meals that they are being fed in the school
lunch programs are sufficient to provide them the kind of nourishment necessary to survive during the regular academic day.
So I would appreciate it if you would, one, be willing to accept
lunch with me in my congressional district. I believe en route to
Iowa you have got to stop through ChicagoI know it can be very
challenging. Would you be willing to accept it?
Secretary VILSACK. Congressman, I would be happy to spend
time with you at the schools that you have mentioned. I would just
parenthetically say that my wife taught school for 30 years, and as
a Governor I went to many, many, many schools and had school
lunch, so I am a little familiar with what you are talking about.
Mr. JACKSON. I am sure you are, Mr. Secretary. But as Secretary, and given the Presidents experienced as a community organizer and what he has written about ad nauseam, quite frankly,
the number of times that he has experienced many of the poverty
central districts that many of the members of this committee represent, the President has suggested that it was these schools, these
community events that helped draw him to public service in the
first place.
You mentioned in our opening remarks that, for you, the Presidents budget meets the test of addressing many of these fundamental priorities. And for me, as someone who still represents the
people that State senator Barack Obama represented and then U.S.
Senator Barack Obama, the test is met when their lunch programs
change, when students eat something different than what they are
eating.
I appreciate the efforts that you have advanced in the Department with respect to civil rights, and I applaud you in that area,
but I am also going to make the case for the next couple of years
that we extend civil rights to students and the school lunch program. And towards that endand I am not being cavalier with
thisI think it important that maybe Agriculture Departmentwide, that, given that there is a cafeteria in the Department of Agriculture, that maybe the special on any given day at the Department of Agriculture for lunch, since we believe in leadership by example, ought to be some school lunch that is being served somewhere in the United States, paid for by the Department of Agriculture.
Let us go one step further, not just a special, with the options
being you can try and eat what they are eating in School District
147 in Harvey, Illinois; bypass the special and then eat spaghetti,
meatballs or salad bar, or whatever else is being offered at the Department of Agriculture. Maybe the special should be what they
are eating in School District 147 in Harvey, Illinois, and the other
options be what is being offered in other school districts around the
country so that the Department itself is sensitive to the idea that
when the standard of what is being fed to Department members
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within our own government changes, then the same standard is
being changed in the school districts around the country who are
experiencing the exact same quality of food.
Now, for me, the budget test, which Mr. Steele is obviously here
to advance before this committee, is whether or not, after we spend
the stimulus money and after we spend and advance the agricultural appropriations requested by Mr. Steele, whether or not in the
stomach of some child in some urban area or some rural area there
is a qualitative and a quantitative difference in the quality of nutrition that they are experiencing. If there isnt one, then we are
wasting money. There is no change.
It appears to me that the only way to truly be able to judge that
is if the Secretary of Agricultureobviously no longer Governor,
but Secretary of Agricultureis willing to make the statement that
policy at Agriculture Department-Wide, we are going to lead by example; that whatever it is that students across this country are experiencing in their student lunch programs or in their breakfast
programs, we, too, will experience it at the Department of Agriculture.
Is the Secretary and/or members of his staff willing to make that
adjustment and extend that civil right to students across the country?
SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
Secretary VILSACK. Well, Representative Jackson, thank you very

much for, obviously, the deep passion that you have for the children of your district and the children of all school districts.
Let me say that I think we are making some steps along the
lines that you have outlined. I point to the WIC program and the
fact that we did an evaluation of that program, looking at the dietary guidelines, and as a result of that evaluation, the packages
that will go out to women and children under the WIC program
this fall will be different and will be more nutritious, will have
more fruits and vegetables.
We have made an effort to try to expand opportunity for people
with SNAP to be able to access farmers markets through the electronic benefit transfer card, the EBT being essentially available at
farmers markets, and we are going to continue to promote access.
We have a similar evaluation taking place with reference to
school lunches. The Institute of Medicine is currently doing an
evaluation. It has been a 2-year study of the quality and nutritional value of those meals. We expect that they will be making
recommendations at the end of this year.
One of the reasons why we asked for additional resources in the
budget was to make sure that we began the process of building on
what was done in the farm bill, creating more opportunities for
fruits and vegetables to be in those meals.
We are, I would say, in a slightly different way leading by example. It was USDA, with the Peoples Garden, which was one of the
first things we did, jackhammering up asphalt and planting an organic garden outside the very office of USDA in honor of President
Lincolns 200th birthday. We are going to have Peoples Gardens all
across the United States and hopefully all across the world at
USDA locations. This garden in particular is organic. It is going to
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be tended by people with disabilities and by USDA workers on a
volunteer basis. The produce from that garden is going to be given
to local food banks. So we are leading by example.
Mr. JACKSON. I just want to be clear, I dont think we need another study, Mr. Secretary, at IOM. I just want to be clear. I am
not being combative at all. I just want to be clear that I dont think
we need another study. Whatever it is that we are eating in the
cafeteria at the Department of Agriculture ought to be the exact
same thing that we are serving to students across our country in
school districts. That is all.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, the study is designed to make sure that
the meals are consistent with the dietary guidelines. While we may
not need another study, the reality is that they have not been consistent with those dietary guidelines, and they need to be. We have
36 percent of our children today who are faced with the possibility
of being overweight or being obese, and that is a health care issue
and a health care crisis that needs to be addressed. And on the
other side, we have children who dont get enough food, who are
hungry. Those need to be addressed.
And the way we can help address both of those problems is by
making sure that the meals that we serve, whether it is breakfast,
whether it is lunch or snacks, are consistent with those dietary
guidelines so that youngsters get a balanced, nutritious meal. That
is what our goal is. And that is what we are aiming to do with the
budget we proposed. That is what the President has instructed me
to do, and I take that very, very seriously.
Mr. JACKSON. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Mr. Jackson.
I will just make a point, and then I want to make an announcement here.
DIETARY GUIDELINES
On the dietary guidelines, Mr. Secretary, Acting Under Secretary

OConnor was here last week. He did say that once the IOM made
recommendations, it could take an additional 3 years.
One of the questions I was going to askand Mr. Jackson is absolutely rightand others here were at this nutrition hearing
where we spent a fair amount of timethis is intolerable. We will
not take another 3 years for a rulemaking process for the implementation of revised nutrition standards and meal requirements
for school lunch and for school breakfast, because the issue is correct, we cannot wait that long.
One of my questions to you is going to be how do we cut through
this and get to a rule as quickly as we can on these guidelines, in
addition to which is coming out in October, you have got the WIC
reauthorization coming up in September. We need to have some information in order to move forward on these things here, and we
have got to move fast.
Secretary VILSACK. The answer to your question, how do you cut
through it, is by the Secretary basically saying, Cut through it.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you. And this is what we anticipate from
you, Mr. Secretary.
I am going to say this, and I have to, you know: Physician, heal
thyself. We have to hold to the 5-minute rule. We really do. I am
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going to be there, I promise, but the Secretarys time is limited,
and my colleagues on both sides of the aisle need to get in their
questions. And I have three additional Members on our side of the
aisle for the opening round.
Mr. Davis, why dont you move forward. Then Mr. Hinchey, Ms.
Kaptur. And we are going to hold strict to the 5-minute rule here.
Mr. DAVIS. Madam Chair, thanks very much.
SMALL FARM PRODUCERS
I want to identify first the district I represent so you will understand from which the questions come.
We have 435 congressional districts in this country. That is a
history lesson you probably dont need. But my district has the
fourth largest rural residential congressional of those 435, has the
third highest number of low blue-collar wage earners. Less than 60
percent of the people live in a household where they earn less than
$40,000 a year; 109,000 households earn less than $25,000 a year.
I visited a school recently where the nutrition director said on
Monday mornings there are times when children get off the bus
and dont say hello to anyone, and they run directly to the kitchen
where they get their first meal that they have had since they left
on Friday.
We do have problems in the district I represent and across this
Nation that we all need to address collectively. I am excited as I
read about rural America and how some of the forefathers, some
of those who worked through the 1920s, I think, with perhaps some
mistakes, but through the 1930s to build an infrastructure in this
Nation that rural America would continue to be able to participate
and keep farmers on the farm or at least agricultural land in production to where the cheapest food supply and the safest in the
world came from America.
And I look at the infrastructure, starting with some of the conservation, the Soil Conservation Service, the extension services, the
old Farmers Home Administration, ASCS, now called Farmer Service Agency, the combining of many of those, the Rural Credit, the
technical assistance, the encouragement, the farmer-to-market
roads. And then we got telephone co-ops that connected us with the
world. And then we actually got power lines first. I can remember
when they came through the little valley I lived in.
And so, we have an infrastructure there that perhaps no other
country in the world has. Most of those are nonprofits; most of
those are owned by those that are served by the service they provide. And we had an opportunity also, through tax laws, to establish our cooperative system where feed, seed and fertilizer became
available at a lower price, and we had a place to market our products.
So we have that unbelievable infrastructure, the farmer-to-market roads, that connects us to the interstate systems that were
built in the 1950s. And as a result, we have become the most productive, per person, of any other country on the face of this planet.
Seven billion people today live in this world. More people live today
than have ever lived. If you combine the totals of everyone, except
todays population, we have more people living than have ever lived
on the face of this Earth. Our farmers need to be sure that we can
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continue to supply the food not just for America but for the rest
of the world as well. And through that infrastructure, we can do
that.
I have observed, as I have read the history of Henry Wallace
not the first, the son, Henry Wallaceas he brought to this Nation
an agriculture policy that talked about conservation, allotments,
and acreage. In essence, we were only going to grow basically what
we needed, and we would keep those farmers in operation. We
didnt give the huge subsidies. Now, we have drifted away from
conservation, and we have drifted away from marginal production
to where, today, overproduction gets us in trouble with the WTO
and others as well, when we start subsidizing.
So I am getting into a philosophy that I dont have time to discuss with you, but I do believe that we have got to go back and
take a serious look at our ag policy that dramatically changed in
the 1990s and continued through 2002, and then again in 2007 as
we wrote the farm bill.
502 DIRECT LOANS
There are two areas where I think we may not be funding as

adequately as we should. The old Farmers Home Administration
had what they called 502 direct loans. I am all for modular housing, but in the district I represent, the only option that many lowincome individuals who live in those households where all the folks
working earn less than $25,000 a year, 109,000 households, dont
have a source of credit. Are you willing to work on increasing additional funding for individual housing and establishing greater credit for some low-income individuals who have no source to go to
today?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, there are so many things that I would
like to be able to say in response to the preface to that question.
But in terms of the nature of farming today and what is happening
particularly for small producers, which I think creates an opportunity to do what you would like to see happenlet me say that
we were pleased with the Recovery and Reinvestment Act because
it gave us the opportunity, with additional resources, to address a
rather significant backlog that existed in those 502 loans. In fact,
we were able and will be able with the recovery resources to basically reduce that backlog by 10,000.
Mr. DAVIS. And I hate to interrupt you, but 502 had an interest
credit which reduced interest down to 1 percent. Many folks, as
their income increased, eventually started paying the full interest
rate.
RURAL WATER AND WASTEWATER SYSTEMS
And the second question, I am extremely interested as well in

looking at the dollars that are made available for our water and
wastewater systems in rural America, especially rural Fourth Congressional District. I want to work with you some on each of those
two issues.
My time is in yellow, so I am going to adhere to the 24 seconds
I have left to say thank you for coming and for being here to answer questions. I will write you the questions that I have and ask
you to give an answer.
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Secretary VILSACK. Five hundred and forty million dollars has already been used to fund over 400 projects in 43 States on wastewater, and we expect more to come in the next several months.
Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Steele, I want to put a little focus on you for a second.
ELIMINATION OF CONGRESSIONAL EARMARKS
In the statement of the Secretary, it says that the budget reflects

the elimination of earmarks. And I was wondering how much
money that saved.
Mr. STEELE. I think it is around $600 million, $600 to $700 million of earmarks, mainly in CSREES. There are some in NRCS, a
few in a few other agencies, but the bulk of it is in the research
area.
Mr. KINGSTON. Were those congressional earmarks or Administration earmarks also?
Mr. STEELE. No, those are congressional earmarks.
Mr. KINGSTON. So the third branch of government, the equal
branch, eliminated congressional earmarks, legislative, but not executive earmarks. I just want to make sure of that.
Mr. STEELE. It is a choice that the Secretary
Mr. KINGSTON. It is a choice of the Secretary? I wanted to find
out. It sounds like the legislative branch has the only earmark
issue.
Mr. STEELE. It is a traditional action on the part of the Administration normally to eliminate earmarks. It is not a new policy.
USER FEE PROPOSALS
Mr. KINGSTON. There is another traditional action, which is to increase veterinarian fees and put food-processing fees knowing that
the legislative branch isnt going to go along with that, but in order
to make the budget look better from the executive level. Was that
practice followed also?
Mr. STEELE. Yes. There are a few user-fee proposals in the budget. As we have in the past years, we have a small user fee for the
Food Safety Inspection Service; a reinspection fee of $4 million is
put in.
Mr. KINGSTON. How much was that?
Mr. STEELE. It is $4 million. It is a fairly small fee, but
Mr. KINGSTON. No. How much is the total of the user fee?
Mr. STEELE. Total user fee iswell, it varies, obviously. Some
APHIS user fees would be $20 million in 2010. Roughly these
would be for
Mr. KINGSTON. I will tell you, if you could submit those fees for
the record.
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195
Mr. KINGSTON. Are you optimistic that Congress is going to go
along with those? Never mind.
ELIMINATION OF LOWER PRIORITY PROGRAMS
In terms of the funding for the elimination of programs that are

not a high priority, do you have a list of those?
Mr. STEELE. We do.
Mr. KINGSTON. Do you know of any them offhand?
Mr. STEELE. One is the RC&D program, which is eliminated for
funding around $50 million in the budget. There have been some
other reductions in other programs, but those will be more identified when we submit our budget in May. When the full budget is
submitted to Congress, then those programs will be identified more
specifically. But the one identified so far is the RC&D program.
Mr. KINGSTON. Well, I would certainly be interested in working
with you on that. So if you could send me a copy, your answer, and
then submit some for the record as well. But I would like to look
at those to see which ones we can work with you on.
PROGRAMS PROPOSED
FOR
TERMINATION
IN THE
2010 BUDGET
Information for the 2010 budget is being finalized for a detailed budget release
later this spring. A list will be provided to Committee staff at that time.
FNS ERRONEOUS PAYMENTS STUDY
Mr. KINGSTON. Are you familiar with the FNS study on the
school lunch program that revealed that $860 million of the funds
spent in 2005 and 2006 were improperly paid?
Mr. STEELE. I am familiar with the study, yes.
Mr. KINGSTON. That was an FNS study.
Mr. STEELE. I am not sure exactly who the author of the study
was, whether they had it contracted, or whether they did it themselves.
Mr. KINGSTON. But it was a legitimate study, not by an outside
group.
Mr. STEELE. I would have to check and double check and provide
the answer for the record.
The following study on the amounts and rates of erroneous payments in the National School Lunch Program (NSLP) and the School Breakfast Program (SBP) was
conducted by Mathematical Policy Research, Inc. for the Food and Nutrition Service.
The study can be found at http://www.fns.usda.gov/ora/menu/Published/CNP/
FILES/apecvol1.pdf.
Mr. KINGSTON. To your knowledge, what has been done to recoup

the $860 million that was overpaid?
Mr. STEELE. Well, I think it is part of the error rate problem in
terms of providing foodare you talking about school lunch or food
stamps?
Mr. KINGSTON. School lunch. And if I could, let me ask the Secretary, because you are just getting settled in here, but this was
an FNS studyan audit, actuallythat said that the school lunch
program overpaid $860 million. We had mentioned the study before, which Mr. Steele just alluded to, that food stamp overpayment
was $1.29 billion. And then I mentioned before, as did the Chair,
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about the $49 million overpaid on farm programs because of ineligibility. So those are three sources of huge money, if we can work
with you on it.
Will you be formulating a plan to go after that money in all three
pots?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, first of all, as I outlined with Congressman Latham, I think we are addressing the issue of the overpayments of folks who are not entitled to direct payments.
Mr. KINGSTON. Except for, he said, the Senate has already eliminated that for this budget.
Secretary VILSACK. No. I think earlier we had talked about the
fact that farmers are basically allowing us to check IRS records to
make sure that they are receiving payments that they are entitled
to. And if they are not entitled to them, then obviously we will stop
making those payments.
Mr. KINGSTON. We want to work with you on that.
Secretary VILSACK. So that is the first issue.
The second issue is we have been working, I think, within the
Department to aggressively address the error rate on the SNAP
program. And I think if you look at the trend line, the error rate,
the percentage is going down. There is still work to be done, and
we are committed to making that effort.
We have a partner in all of this, which are States, and we are
working with States to try to reduce the error rate. I know in my
State of Iowa, we were one of the worst culprits relative to error
rates, and we really aggressively went after that and reduced it.
And the third thing, in terms of the school lunch program, there
are a multitude of reasons for this. One is that there could be a
cashier error, there could be inaccurate information provided by
parents, or there could be an error in the administration of the program. We are going to be focusing on technology and on training
to try to aggressively reduce those errors. And we will have a proposal in the budget that attempts to redirect those resources.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Hinchey.
Mr. HINCHEY. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Secretary, thank you very much for the job you are doing
and the experience that you bring into it.
FOOD SAFETY AND SECURITY
I very much appreciate everything that you said in the context

of your statement on the issue of food safety and the way in which
you responded to the questions on that issue, because it is obviously something that is very important and something that we all
care about, because it affects, obviously, the people that we represent. Food and agriculture, food and fiber are the two most important things for all of us in our lives, and so the job that you are
doing is critically important for the safety and security of our country.
So, with regard to food safety, I very much appreciate the attention that you are obviously giving to it. I know you dont oversee
the Food and Drug Administration directly, but I know that you do
have some interaction with them. That is an aspect of the government which hasnt really functioned properly for some years. And
I am sure that you will do everything that you can to upgrade the
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work that they do and to improve the assurity of the Food and
Drug Administration as they work to get things done in a proper
way so that people are getting good quality, safe food.
AGRICULTURE CONCENTRATION
I wanted to ask you a question about the way in which the agricultural system in our country is changing. Over the course of the
last few decades, we have seen more and more concentration of agriculture in the hands of fewer and fewer companies. You have
now, as you said, I think, in your statement, something like 70 percent of the food that is produced by large companies, mostly corporate agricultural companies, and they are responsible for most of
the trade surplus that we have with regard to agriculture, which
you pointed out as something that is important. But in a number
of places around this country, we have a lot of small farmers.
The agricultural system in New York State, as you probably
know, is still very significant; a lot of agricultural production comes
out of the State of New York. And most of that agricultural production is small family farms. So I am interested in what you think
we should be doing in the context of this committee, in the context
of the Congress, and what your intention is going to be on the
issues of small farms, family farms; and maybe specifically in the
context of the 2010 budget, what might be done to support them,
and what you might think the general economic circumstances that
we are confronting now may be having negative effects on those
small family farms, and what we need to do to ensure their continuation.
Secretary VILSACK. In a very simplistic way, we have three kinds
of farms and ranches in this country. We have very, very small operations, which are primarily specialty crop operations with sales
of a couple thousand dollars or so that are usually funneling
produce to farmers markets and for locally supported, communitysupported agriculture. We had 108,000 more of those operations in
the last 5 years than we did 5 years ago. So that is sort of a positive trend. We need to focus on encouraging markets for those producers and allowing them to migrate into midsized operations so
that we can repopulate the midsized farms.
We saw 80,000 fewer midsized farms in the last 5 years. Some
of them migrated to larger operations, but the reality is we have
a net loss there. I honestly think that in many, many parts of the
country, opportunities for conversion of farm products into energy
create a new opportunity for farmers not only to profit from the
production of their crop, but also potentially the processing of their
crop. And so you will see continued effort in this budget to promote
more renewable fuel, more renewable energy opportunities in rural
America.
Then there are the large farms that you have alluded to. They,
indeed, do produce a substantial percentage of what we consume
and what we export. There, I think, we have to continue to look
at research and development in terms of biotechnology to make
sure that they continue to be productive.
Overarching that, two issues: One, the issue of clean jobs, creating new opportunities with climate change for new income
sources for farmers of all size; and then, two, understanding the
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importance of strong, vibrant rural communities that create offfarm income.
As I indicated in my statement, 900,000 of the 2.2 million farmers and ranchers in this country are required to work 200 days off
the farm. Now, that is the operator, it is not the spouse. It is the
operator. So we have to continue to modernize infrastructure in
rural communities. We have to continue to expand broadband so
that markets are opened up. We have to focus on quality-of-life
issues, whether it is community facilities or housing, as alluded to
earlier, all creating new opportunities.
And I honestly believe that as we focus on clean jobs, as we focus
on severing our dependence on foreign oil, that the real opportunity
in that matrix is in rural America. And USDA is very aggressive
in its effort to promote opportunities in all three categories of farm
sizes. I think it is important.
Mr. HINCHEY. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Latham.
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you, Madam Chair.
FORMULA FUNDING
Mr. Secretary, the subject was raised a few minutes ago in the
context of earmarks, but one thing that has always been a major
frustration, I think, for us in this committeewe are kind of at a
disadvantage because we have not seen details of the budget at
this pointbut there have been proposals in the past to cut formula funding for agricultural research, making competitive grants
out of it. Obviously it has a huge impact in places like Iowa State
University and all the land-grant universities.
The Chairman and myself are probably on the same page on this,
but can you tell us in the budget proposal what you are doing as
far as funding for the land-grant universities and the formula funding that has the continuity of research?
Secretary VILSACK. Representative, I could be corrected on this,
but I dont believe that there is any reduction in those resources.
I will tell you that we will be making an effort to make sure that
the research is appropriately focused, and to make sure that we do
a good job of making sure that we are not overlapping with other
research that is taking place; that we maximize those dollars and
better coordinate those research opportunities.
There are some key areas; obviously biofuels, renewable energy,
that is a key area. The notion of food safety is a key area. The notion of how we make meals attractive to youngsters, a key area.
There are obviously priority areas where we are going to focus, but
I dont believe that there is a reduction.
Mr. LATHAM. Is there detail, Mr. Steele?
Mr. STEELE. Well, the detail will be provided when we submit
our full budget, but we are not anticipating any cuts in the formula.
Mr. LATHAM. You are not changing the formulas at all?
Mr. STEELE. Not that I know of at this point.
Mr. LATHAM. Sounds good. We dont have that battle maybe this
year for once.
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RURAL HOUSING APPLICATIONS BACKLOG
It was brought up earlier, in the stimulus package there is $1

billion for single-family housing and $10.5 billion for single-family
home guaranteed funds. The concern I have is that the staffing to
deal with this has, in recent years, dropped about 45 percent. I
have heard from a lot of USDA employees out in the field that this
huge influx of dollars going in, there simply is not staff there to
be able to handle it. Do you have any comments about that?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, we are fortunate, I think, in one respect, that USDA, that the Recovery and Reinvestment resources
are going through traditional programs and existing programs, unlike many of the other departments of government where they have
to formulate new programs. And in this particular area, what we
are dealing with is a significant backlog that was not being addressed because of inadequate funding. So, many of these applications have already been processed, they are already out there, we
already know who they are. We know what homes are being constructed. We know that 5,000 jobs are likely to be developed as a
result of these resources, and over 10,000 homeownership opportunities are going to be finalized. So we are addressing a backlog,
which I think makes it a little bit easier than it would be if we
were basically having to process new loan applications.
Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Steele.
Mr. STEELE. Also, in the Rural Development area, Congress did
provide additional money for administrative costs for rural development. I think it is $120 million or thereabouts. And I have been
told by the RD agencies that they are going to be utilizing that
money not only for some IT fixes, but also for hiring some contract
and part-time people on a temporary basis to help implement this
backlog, which is mainly a backlog, in most cases, which we should
be able to get done, I think, without a major problem.
Secretary VILSACK. And I would also say that those Rural Development folks also have the responsibility of focusing on the Business and Industry Loan Program. And I think that is where the
concerns that you are raising are perhaps even more on point, because we have a substantial amount of opportunity here far beyond
what we normally have. And that may be what people are concerned about, making sure that those programs are utilized as they
should be and utilized as quickly as we need them to be utilized.
Mr. LATHAM. Okay. To go off to another subjectand I am really
doing well, three questions
Ms. DELAURO. Keep going, Mr. Latham.
Mr. LATHAM [continuing]. And the red light is not even on yet.
Ms. DELAURO. It is yellow, let us go.
INCREASE IN ETHANOL BLEND RATE
Mr. LATHAM. Just very quickly. With the recommendation that

you made for increasing the fuel standard to 15 percent or 20 percent for ethanolI believe to the EPA I wrote a letter to the President supporting your statementis there any response back?
Where are we on that?
Secretary VILSACK. I know that the EPA has recently received a
request from the industry to take a look at the waiver for E15, and
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I know that is under consideration. I dont have anything scientific
to tell you today as to what the attitude of the EPA is on that. We
are going to continue to advocate for an increase in the blend rate.
In large part because of the concern that I have about maintaining the infrastructure that we have already invested in our biofuel
industry, it is important, as we transition to second- and third-generation feedstocks, that we have in place the infrastructure to take
advantage of those new developments. If we lose that infrastructure, it will be that much more difficult to get the biofuels industry
back on track.
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you very much.
Ms. DELAURO. Ms. Kaptur.
Ms. KAPTUR. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Welcome, Mr. Secretary. I was very drawn to your candidacy at
one point about a year ago. We certainly welcome you and look forward to working with you.
URBAN FOOD DESERTS
I represent the northern part of Ohio where that State meets

Lake Erie, the most abundant of the lakes. And the district I represent is both urbanthe city of Toledo and Sanduskyand rural.
It is a most interesting district.
I can report to you on the Recovery bill, the CSFP program has
not resulted in additional food, but merely the same amount with
rising prices. I think it is important for you to know.
Number two, despite the increases in food stamps, food stamps
in our area last about 212 weeks. I want to encourage you on in
your Peoples Gardens efforts. And I was just reading the story in
the Economist, Digging Their Way Out of Recessionyou are
prominently mentioned, very good story. I really believe that with
new technologies, growing technologies, including in the urban environment, many of these food deserts can actually produce their
own food. And we are about that task in Toledo, Ohio, but we need
the help of USDA to, first of all, recognize what we are doing.
I brought with me some photos of vertical-growing systems that
are eight times more efficient than planting in the dirt. We are
doing this right now. I would hope that USDA would take a look
at places, urban areas across this country, from New York City to
Chicago, to Toledo, that are trying to meet rising food needs, and
to do this not just for important nutritional reasons, but also for
cultural and for environmental. The USDA has been very resistant
to understanding the importance of what new technology can provide us in meeting human needs across this country. I think you
have the experience and the will to help us.
So I am wondering if, for the record, you could summarize USDA
authorities that could assist communities that are urban in nature
that are trying to meet rising food needs in urban food deserts.
Would you be willing to work with us? You have done it in your
own building here in urban Washington. That is a sign to me that
there is some recognition of the capability of production to happen
in urban environments.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, we take very seriously the issue of food
deserts, and we understand and appreciate that they are obviously
in places where people are struggling.
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One of the programs that we have some flexibility in to address
the capital needs is the Business and Industry Program that I alluded to earlier. In talking with Bill Hagy yesterday, at a group
where I was talking to urban and rural economic development proponents, he indicated and pointed out to me that there is some
flexibility in that program to provide resources.
Now, I will tell you that obviously our focus will continue to be,
as I think it should be, on rural communities, because that is basically the job of USDA, but the issue of food security and food safety
and nutritious eatingas it was pointed out earlier, two-thirds of
our budget is allocated in that mission area, and so we have to
take it seriously wherever there are problems.
Ms. KAPTUR. Thank you very much. We hope that someday the
Department of Agriculture will understand that food isnt only
grown in very largeon the plains, especially vegetables, and even
chickens can be raised in urban environments where they are desperately needed, and, through aquaculture, fish. USDA has to
catch up to the technologyI dont expect you to do it today, but
just recognize that it existsand keep an open mind as we move
forward here.
EMERALD ASH BORER
In view of the time, there isnt a lot of time here in 5 minutes,

but let me just tick off for you the emerald ash borer issue. We are
hoping, in working with Secretary Bartuska, that we can get USDA
to be an important player in the areas where we have serious infestation, such as with the emerald ash bore, to link what you do to
what the Department of Interior is doing to what we can do
through the Department of Labor, through the WIA and summer
employment programs, to the Civilian Conservation Corps, to the
Public Lands Corps. We need to have a coordinated effort to make
maximum use of the public dollar. And I just check that off as one
where we hope to work with you again. And it is extraordinarily
important in Ohio and in Michigan.
And finally, let me just mention again this issue of what is urban
and what is rural. I represent the largest greenhouse industry in
the Midwest in Lucas County and Lorain County. We have been ignored by USDA for 100 years simply because the greenhouses were
there first, and then the local cities annexed them.
And I am wondering if there is anything you can do to help us
with eligibility for the 9007 program for retrofitting where energy
is upwards of a third to half of the cost. We need to have USDA
helping agricultural enterprise wherever they are located.
Secretary VILSACK. That, the 9007 program, is a program that
I may be corrected on thisis primarily focused on retrofitting bioethanol facilities, isnt it, and other renewable energy sources? I
would have to take a look at that specific issue that you have
raised.
The section 9007 Rural Energy for America Program (REAP) is entirely different
from the Business and Industry (B&I) guaranteed loan program. REAP is limited,
by law, to agricultural producers and rural small businesses. Our regulations for
this program define agricultural producer to include nursery stock. However, they
currently require that the project be located in a rural area. We propose to change
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the regulations for FY 2010 to allow agricultural producers in non-rural areas to be
considered for REAP assistance.
For the Business and Industry (B&I) guaranteed loan program, the 2008 Farm
Bill included provisions that allow flexibility for areas that would otherwise be considered non-rural to be determined to be rural in character and, thus, eligible
for assistance. Communities that wish to be considered for such a determination
should contact their State Rural Development office.
Secretary VILSACK. On the Emerald Ash Borer, I would just tell

you that we have about 185,000 square miles of Federal and State
land that has been quarantined because of that. It is a very, very
serious issue and allows me to point out, that invasive species is
a very serious consequence to the economy and one that we need
to take seriously. And it gets back to Congressman Lathams question about research; that is a focus in another area that we obviously have to focus on.
Ms. KAPTUR. Mr. Secretary, in closing, let me just say, we warmly invite you to the 9th District of Ohio to view our urban growing
systems as we meet this terrible recession where unemployment
rates are now close to 10 percent in some counties and over 17 percent in others.
Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Ms. Kaptur.
Lots of invitations, Mr. Secretary. I know you are trying to cut
back on the travel budget.
Mrs. Emerson.
Mrs. EMERSON. Come down to Missouri.
Thanks, Madam Chair.
FARM PAYMENTS LIMITS
Secretary Vilsack, let me go back to the payment limits issue,

just because I wanted to follow up something that Tom said earlier.
But mine has to do with the fact that you all at USDAthere are
about 19 different, separate and distinct changes made to payment
limits in the 2008 farm bill, all of which are right here, and I am
sure you know it.
And you probably also know that that is probably three times
more thanor it is more than the last three farm bills, combined,
did. However, Congress was silent on the definition of actively engaged, and I know that you all at the Department have authority
to define the term.
But can you share with us, please, the Departments reasoning,
why it is necessary to redefine actively engaged at least once, but
potentially twice, over the next year? Because my farmersand let
me just follow that up by saying my farmers need certainty.
You know, everything changes. Every year things change. They
cant plan out, and they are small businesses. They cant plan their
lives and their businesses out 5 years because of all these changes.
Secretary VILSACK. You are correct that there were significant
changes in the farm bill. We are interested, as a new administration, to make sure that we fully appreciate and understand all of
the changes that went into place in regulation just prior to our taking office, and so we basically called a timeout; and with this particular area, we encourage more comment.
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So we are still in the middle of the comment period. And I would
like that process, if I might, to allow it to continue and go through
the process to figure out precisely what peoples attitudes are.
I think sometimes with these definitions, and I dont know necessarily with this one, but just as a general proposition, that there
are oftentimes unintended consequences or circumstances that
arise during the course of implementation that people think, well,
we didnt think about that. We need to fine-tune it.
I dont know that that will be the case of actively engaged. I
wont know until we have had an opportunity to receive the comments and analyze them.
Mrs. EMERSON. Time period?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, the accounting period expires this
month, and so we would anticipate and expect taking a look at
those comments April 6.
Mrs. EMERSON. Okay. Let me switch to a different subject.
FARM STORAGE FACILITIES LOANS
Has the stimulus fundingbecause you all got so much money

in the stimulus bill, and I am not complaining about where a lot
of it is going to be allocated at allbut I am curious if the funding
that you all got for the stimulus has in any way slowed the allocation and disbursement of long overdue fiscal year 2009 monies.
And here is my example. Farm storage loans, the bill was signed
into law almost a year ago, and I am just curious why it has taken
6 months for rules to be prepared for a farm facility, farm storage
facility loans. Because we are going to miss another crop year and
because our farmers also continue to suffer from the basis differentials, we need those storage loans sooner rather than later.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, our focus in terms of rulemaking has
been threefold:
One, making sure that we get the ACRE payment program,
which is part of the overall safety net, in place as quickly as we
can;
Two, upgrading the implementation of the energy portion of the
farm bill, which we think has exciting potentials for rural America.
As you well know, there were a number of provisions in that energy title that needed to be implemented, and we are in a process
of trying to get funds out as quickly as we can, perhaps late this
spring, early summer, on some of those programs; and
Three, we wanted to make sure that the conservation security
stewardship program, which is also extremely important in terms
of planning, that the rulemaking and so forth was finished on a
timely basis. So that has been where the focus has been.
I specifically dont know about that particular rule. We will be
happy to check and get back to you.
The rule for implementing the farm bill changes to the farm storage facility loan
program was delayed for reasons other than the effects of the stimulus bill. Because
the farm bill expanded the farm storage facility loan program to also include storage
for hay, renewable biomass and other storable commodities which will likely require
other types of storage than the traditional grain storage facilities it was determined
that a Programmatic Environmental Assessment (PEA) would be required before
the regulations could be published. On March 18, 2009 the Department issued a
press release announcing two public meetings to be held in April to solicit public
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input for the PEA regarding the potential impact on the environment. The comments are due May 13 at which time the PEA will be prepared for publication in
the Federal Register. According to the National Environmental Policy Act at least
a 30-day comment period must be provided for in the PEA before the regulation implementing the farm bill provisions can be published. Given those requirements the
rule for the farm storage loans should be ready for publication in mid-July.
Fortunately the delay has not prevented USDA from making farm storage loans
under the regulations which were in place before the 2008 farm bill. In addition to
the expansion of the scope of the program mentioned earlier, the 2008 farm bill increased the maximum loan term from 7 years to 10 years and it increased the maximum loan amount from $100,000 to $500,000. The currently available loans are for
grains, oilseeds, and peanuts; once the rule is put in place additional crops will be
eligible as noted above and the loan terms and maximum levels will be increased.
Mrs. EMERSON. I would appreciate it.

I have another question, Madam Chairman, but I think I am
going to let it go because it may require longer, and I will go into
the red.
Secretary VILSACK. Just the storage loan is expected to clear in
July of this year.
Mrs. EMERSON. Still might be too late, then.
Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Mrs. Emerson.
I am just going to rattle off three or four questions, and I am
going to try to make the questions very short. And I will ask you,
Mr. Secretary, to make the answers short as well.
CHILD NUTRITION PROGRAM
You have asked for $1 billion in the proposed 2010 budget blueprint to accomplish the goals on child hunger and childhood obesity. In your view, is that enough? Mr. Spratt, Chair of the Budget
Committee in the Congress, has proposed $2 billion per year.
I am going to do for the record what CRS listed as program initiatives for the Child Nutrition Program, and then ask you to comment on them. But I will submit those for the record on how we
might try to look at nutrition reauthorization and what we should
do with regard to income levels, start-up grants, simplifying the
food service rules, et cetera, and what we do about competitive
foods.
About competitive foodsand I want to get an answer to this
questionwhile we can regulate nutrition standards through federally reimbursable school nutrition programs, what should we do
about competitive foods offered in schools? Should we make competitive rules mandatory or leave it to the school districts to decide?
What changes are we going to deal with to implement and what
authorities are you going to request for child nutrition reauthorization and response to the IOM report?
Local school wellness programs and policies are supposed to be
in place. Should we mandate schools to start a local wellness program to force school districts to take these issues seriously?
Again, with regard to education programs, like the dietary programs on nutrition education, how are we going toI am told that
we are looking at 2 years before we will know the effectiveness of
some of the education messages that are out there with regard to
what is good, what is nutrition, et cetera. How do we circumvent
this 2-year process in this area, and can we succeed in making be-
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havioral change, given the marketing and advertising to kids? Can
we exercise controls in enforcing the marketing to children similar
to what we do for cigarettes?
Secretary VILSACK. How much time do I have?
Ms. DELAURO. We are still on green. Lets keep rolling, Mr. Secretary.
Secretary VILSACK. Your first question about the resources, you
know, obviously we have proposed a billion dollars, but we also believe there may be opportunities within the existing budget to redirect resources to encourage more nutrition and more quality foods.
And I would like the opportunity to prove that case.
As it relates to competitive foods, obviously, I think that the time
has come for us to have a very serious conversation about precisely
what foods are in our schools. I am particularly focused, myself, on
elementary and middle school. I think you have got to get these
youngsters early and get habits that are good habits.
Ms. DELAURO. Should we mandate the rules?
Secretary VILSACK. You know, I think we need strong enforcement opportunities, and I think we need either mandates or incentives, either one. You know, I think incentives work if they are
structured properly.
As it relates to the Institute of Medicine study, you know, our
goal is to try to institute whatever recommendations they propose
as quickly as we possibly can. We obviouslyI obviously dont
know what kinds of costs will be associated with their recommendations, but we are going to take them seriously. We didnt
ask for the study just to waste peoples time and energy. We are
looking for serious recommendations.
Ms. DELAURO. I am looking to you, honestly because, as governor, you supported limits on the competitive foods, and you did
that during the last child nutrition reauthorization. And as a department, it was three decades ago the Department tried to ban
chips, cookies, soft drinks from schools, but was thwarted by the
courts and by food companies. That means standing up to theyou
know, and I look at usand standing up to these challenges about
what is in the best interests of our kids and nutrition.
Secretary VILSACK. I think it is important to send a consistent
message that we are serious about this, because there are longterm health consequences and economic consequences if we dont
address this aggressively.
On wellness, the child nutrition programs in 2004 required
wellness policies. I am not sure how well that worked, and we are
in the process of encouraging the Healthier U.S. Schools Program.
I intend to be a little bit more vigilant on this than perhaps we
have been in the past.
If you all direct us to do something, it is my responsibility to see
that it is done.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay.
Secretary VILSACK. On the education issue, you know, this is an
interesting one
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Secretary, I am going to have to, in order to
I am out of time.
Mr. Farr.
Secretary VILSACK. I did.
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Ms. DELAURO. You did and you did well. We will talk about the
other one later.
Mr. FARR. Thank you, Madam Chair.
NSLP OVERPAYMENTS
Mr. Secretary, I have two questions, one in relation to the discussion you had with Mr. Kingston on the overpayment or the missed
payment on the school nutrition program.
President Obama said he wanted to eliminate childhood hunger
in the United States. I think the issue goes that these schools
sometimes feed the kid whose family may have the money to pay
for the lunch, but didnt give the kid any money. So we feed him
because he is hungry. And so I think we have to figure out how
we streamline this program so maybe we do err on that, on feeding
a kid who is hungry, regardless of a parents income.
I mean, we dont check that child for a means test when he got
on the bus in the morning. And we dont check that child for a
means test before he checked out a library book from the library,
but we means test him before he can get any food in the lunchroom. And if they are hungry, I think we ought to be feeding them.
I think you can find some savings from this consolidation and
streamlining, even considering kind of block grants to schools that
constantly qualify for these moneys. That was a statement.
FARM BILL PEST AND DISEASE FUNDING
And the question I have is that last year in the farm bill, we incorporated pest and disease language, and I represent the area
where the breakout of the light brown apple mothand other pests
breaking out, but that is the big one of the moment. So we spend
about $50 million annually in California to control these invasive
species.
But so farand the law specified that the Commodity Credit
Corporation shall make available $12 million for fiscal year 2009,
$45 million for fiscal year 2010. The previous administration abrogated their duty to implement the pest and disease provisions of
the farm bill and left it up to you, and there are only 6 months left
in fiscal year 2009.
OMB has not appropriated the fiscal year 2009 funding yet for
pest and disease. It must be obligated by the end of the fiscal year,
use it or lose it. I was wondering if you will work with us to help
get OMB get this program up and running as soon as possible.
Secretary VILSACK. I have been advised that the status of funding is focused on the last days of the second quarter of this fiscal
year, so it looks like we are working on trying to get those resources available.
Mr. FARR. We will get the full funding for the whole
Secretary VILSACK. $12 million.
Mr. FARR. $12 million?
Secretary VILSACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. FARR. All right. When do you think that will
Secretary VILSACK. It says last days of the second quarter of fiscal year 2009.
Mr. FARR. Last days of the whatthere is a date for that, isnt
there?
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Secretary VILSACK. It would have been better off just telling you
soon.
Mr. FARR. All right.
Secretary VILSACK. We will get you the specific date.
Plant pest and disease funding, provided in the 2008 Farm Bill, was made available for obligation to the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service as of March
30, 2009.

I am under the green light. You can take it away, Madam Chair.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Bishop.
FARM AND NON-FARM INCOME TESTS
Mr. Secretary, you recently announced a collaborative effort with

the IRS, which I understand will allow you to improve the administration of the adjusted gross farm and nonfarm income test. While
I understand the importance for strong oversight, I am concerned
about the exchange of the tax information between the IRS and the
USDA.
Since the new income tests are based on farm and nonfarm income, not adjusted gross income, which is readily available on the
income tax returns, what specific data will you ask IRS to review
in order to provide USDA with the information that USDA can actually utilize?
And how will the data be communicated between IRS and
USDA? And how can you ensure that that wont be any breach of
privacy? And will that information be subject to a Freedom of Information Act request?
Secretary VILSACK. It is my understanding that what will happen
is that on a relatively small number of accounts, USDA will provide the IRS with some kind of taxpayer identification that indicates that this individual has received farm payments.
The IRS will thenwith the authority provided with the document that is signed at the time folks receive payments, will essentially then check to make sure that the income that was reported
was at or below whatever level it needed to be in order for those
payments to be authorized. And at that point, they will communicate back to the USDA that farmer X or lawyer B was either entitled to receive the payment or not entitled to receive the payment.
There wont be any tax document that goes to Farm Service
Agency offices. It will just be an exchange of basic information saying this person has qualified for payments or has received a payment or is applying for a payment, check to see whether or not he
was legitimately entitled to receive the payment.
Mr. BISHOP. Thank you. That is my question.
Secretary VILSACK. Might I just add just one other point. If a
farmer believes that a determination by the IRS is inappropriate,
they obviously have the appropriate appeal rights.
I dont know the answer to your Freedom of Information request,
but we will get that to you.
Ms. DELAURO. I just want to make a point on that, and there is
a little time remaining there.
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I would repeat, there are many programs, food stamps on up,
that receive information from the IRS. So this is nothing new. People are doing it, and we ought to be able to follow suit where we
find difficulties.
I think it is important to note, from 1999 to 2005, USDA paid
$1.1 billion in farm payments in the names of 172,801 deceased individuals, either as an individual recipient or as a member of an
entity. Of the total, 40 percent went to those who had been dead
for 3 or 4 years; 19 percent went to those dead for 7 or more years.
I think we need to get this under control.
Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chair, just to comment, the analysis
that Dave just provided to me indicates that our analysis is, it is
not FOIable, not subject to the Freedom of Information Act.
Mr. BISHOP. Madam Chairman, my concern was making sure
that the information you got from IRS was checking apples and apples to oranges and oranges, and that the information would be, in
fact, helpful.
Secretary VILSACK. And we are in the process of devising specifically how this is going to be done, but the way in which I have outlined with USDA saying this person has received payments, check
and make sure whether or not they are entitled to it so we dont
have a replication of what the Chair just outlined.
EARMARKS ELIMINATIONS/PROGRAM TERMINATIONS
Mr. Steele, I wanted to go back to that list in terms of the letter

I want you to send me.
How much money does eliminating earmarks save? You answered, but I would just like to see it again.
And then the programs that were eliminated and the contracts,
because there has been this Stan Johnson issue that has come up
from Iowayou are probably familiar with it; there has been some
press about it, contracts like thathow many of them have been
eliminated.
CONTRACTS ELIMINATED
IN THE
2010 BUDGET
Detailed budget information is scheduled to be released later this spring. Information on termination of contracts during 2010 will not be known until the completion
of the fiscal year.
Mr. KINGSTON. So, and then number two, Mr. Secretary, you may
have seen this article, it was covered by the AP about a woman in
Warren County, Ohio, who has qualified for food stamps, but she
has $80,000 in the bank and paid for a $311,000 house and a Mercedes because of the liberal interpretation of assets wont be counted against you.
As you know, we had liberalized the qualifications, saying that
we want people to have college education accounts and assets that
are maybe good assets and not have that used against them for eligibility of food stamps. But this appears to be a real abuse of it,
and I think it is going to be an embarrassment for the USDA if
we dont address it.
Do you want to comment on it now, or are you looking at something?
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Secretary VILSACK. I have not actually seen that article, and I
would say that we obviously have some categorical eligibility systems in place, and there may well be circumstances in situations,
as you have outlined.
Again, I dont know the accuracy of that report.
Mr. KINGSTON. If you will just look at it, I think that this is
going to be solved outside of this room if we dont be proactive and
solve it inside this room, because I think it is the type of thing
that, you knowthis puts a face on the abuses out there.
Recent articles in the Ohio press have indicated that a woman with an $80,000
bank account, a luxury car, and a $300,000 home was getting SNAP benefits, and
questions have been raised whether this is a proper use of program funds. Under
current law, households in which each member receives benefits from other means
tested assistance programs, including Temporary Assistance to Needy Families or
Supplemental Security Income, are automatically eligible for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits. This is called categorical eligibility
Also under current law, States have the flexibility to extend categorical eligibility
to households that not only receive the traditional cash assistance, but who receive
or are authorized to receive other services or in-kind benefits. This expanded categorical eligibility pertains to households whose incomes are below 200 percent of
poverty, without regard to assets.
First, the scenario described in the articles assumes the person is categorically eligible for the program which means the assets of the household are not counted as
provided in law. This is not true without the substantiation of categorical eligibility
since the asset test for most households is $2,000 or $3,000 when there is an elderly
or disabled member in the household. Under the categorical eligibility rules, even
if a household has substantial savings, it must meet the net income eligibility guidelines in order to qualify for SNAP benefits. In other words, the households income
must net out at 100 percent of the poverty limit to receive benefits, and if not, they
may be categorically eligible, but the benefit amount would be zero.
Second, the value of a home has never been considered as a resource in this program. Many working people who lose jobs may be without any income and we hope
that SNAP can help them through a hard time and they dont lose their homes. Finally, since 2001, States have had the flexibility to exclude vehicles from the resource testin the regular program as well as when categorical eligibility has been
established. Almost every State excludes at least one vehicle per household. Most
people need a car to get to work. States dont have to spend time documenting car
ownership and fair market value. Again, people who lose jobs may have more valuable cars but if they dont find work soon they wont be able to keep up with the
car payments. During these difficult economic times, categorical eligibility enables
SNAP to meet the households immediate food needs and affords States administrative relief in determining eligibility.
Mr. KINGSTON. I wanted to switch gears with you, though.
ALTERNATIVE ENERGY INITIATIVES
In terms of the Presidents number 2 and 3 goals, which relate

to energy efficiency, I dont know if you are familiar with this report by the Research, Education and Extension Service, came out
last March; and it was by Gale Buchanan, who was the under secretary at the time.
You probably havent seen it, and I dont think that position has
been filled, but this was done by the USDA at the urging of this
committee, members of this committee, individually and collectively. So I think it is a pretty good report and it is totally in line
with the Presidents number 2 and 3 priorities in terms of alternative energy and stuff like that.
So I will give it to you before you leave the room, but I am sure
you have lots of people who have actually coauthored that.
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TRADE ISSUES
Then my next point that I wanted to make, within the 5 minutes,

is on trade. I am interested in trade. I am somebody who had actually voted against NAFTA and voted against GATT and most favored nations with China; but I realize now it is a completely different world and that there are a lot of different opportunities out
there for our farmers in terms of international trade.
And yet we get some mixed signals from this administration.
Sometimes the President seems to talk a good game about global
trade, but then it seems that things like the Colombia Trade Agreements are not even going to be put on the floor of the House for
a vote.
Will the USDA be getting involved in urging Congress to look at
trade agreements?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, let me just use your question to give
sort of an overview, and then I will respond to it.
We expect exports to be down a bit from where they were in
2008, but that was a record year. The expectation is that exports
will still be higher than they were in 2007, and that was the second-highest year. So we are still aggressively pursuing exports.
I will tell you that we have an issue that has to be dealt with.
The inspector general has suggested that we needed a more coordinated approach and a better marketing strategy for some of our
crops, particularly biotechnology, and we are going to work on that.
We are going to work closely with Ron Kirk, the U.S. Trade Representative, to make sure that agriculture and agricultural interests are always at the table and that people understand, as we negotiate and discuss trade agreements, that we, in fact, protect the
agriculture interests of this country. That is something that I think
is my responsibility.
And we intend to be aggressive in an effort to try to encourage
our trading partners. We have issues relative to beef that need to
be addressed, I think fairly aggressively, with some of our trading
partners, which could open up new opportunities. We havent quite
recovered from the BSE circumstance in 2003. We are focused on
some of the countries that could help us get back up to 2003andbeyond levels.
Mr. KINGSTON. Okay, well, thank you. And I am out of time.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Davis.
VENDING MACHINES IN SCHOOLS
Mr. DAVIS. I heard a story once about a technician who went to

one of the farms and was trying to advise a farmer what he should
do conservation-wise. And the farmer said, Young fellow, I know
you have just graduated from college, but I have owned three farms
before you came here. I understand how to farm.
But I went to high school and graduated in 1962; and prior to
that in the elementary school systems, I never saw in our school
buildings a dispenser where you could plug in and get a soda pop,
where you could plug in and get a candy bar, where you could plug
in and get some, in my opinion, lack of nutritious food.
My wife teaches. She will retire this year, 30 years. She says one
of the worst problems we have today, that is bringing about obe-
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sity, is the convenience of the machines that you plug your money
in, that your parents send you to school with, and buy that instead
of the hot-lunch program.
Are you willing to say that any school that obtains hot-lunch program, that gets dollars to where we can have a nutritious program
for our children, that we will ban those, in my opinion, that we will
ban those facilities from those schools?
Secretary VILSACK. Congressman, I am willing to say that we
need an aggressive policy on vending machines and on those food
products.
Now, I am particularly focused on elementary and middle
schools, in particular, because I really do believe that you have to
get those habits early, early. And the chairwoman mentioned earlier advertising, and I think it is important for us, for the food industry, for USDA, for all of us to understand this isnt just about
children and education. It is really about health care, it is about
the future of this country. So this is a very important subject.
Now, I am willing to work on mandates or incentives, or a combination of both, to make sure that we have as healthy and as well
an environment as we possibly can for our children.
Mr. DAVIS. I am not implying that vending machines are all bad;
if they have fruit in those, or fruit juices, nutritious food that a
child can obtain, I am okay with that. But some of the high sodium, some of the low nutrients that are our children are getting.
My wife teaches second grade. She taught first grade for 14
years. I know these are used from time to time to raise funds to
buy paper or pencils for children, but there ought to be another
way to do it.
I just hope that we can work together in being able to bring
about at least a change of the dollars that we spend to use that
I dont want to use this as a bully pulpit or a hammer, but we have
got to start looking at the health conditions our children will bring
to themselves when they become adults, through obesity and diabetes.
Secretary VILSACK. I would also suggest that we need to look at
earlier in life. We need to docontinue to do a job of educating
young parents about the nutritional needs of their children, and we
need to do a better job of focusing on child-care facilities and preschool facilities to make sure that the snacks and programs that
are available, that we send a consistent message.
We have started a process with public service announcements,
and basically working with some of the better-known children
shows, like Sesame Street, to encourage young parents to really
focus on this.
Mr. DAVIS. WIC has done, I think, in my opinion, a pretty decent
job with that, but we do have to do additional education.
RURAL HOUSING
The second thing I want to talk aboutmy time is about to run

out. 1967, when I talked a moment ago about housing in rural
areas through the direct loan program of 502 individual housing,
we actually built 47,973 homes. That grew 10 years later towards
107,000 individual homes that were built in rural America. And it
had to be in America, in towns that had less thanI think 2,500
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through 3,000 population at the time was the number. Todayas
an example, 100,000 then, 30-some years agotoday, through the
guarantee program, 58,000 and 9,000 direct, roughly 68,000 homes,
opportunities today for rural Americans who havein my opinion,
the others are being left out because they dont know where to go.
I hope we take a serious look at the 502 loan program in being
able to add additional funds through the guarantee program and
bring back the low-interest creditor interest assistance loans.
My time is about to run out. Thank you, sir.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I think there is also a great opportunity
for us to make those homes that do exist in rural America far more
energy efficient.
Mr. DAVIS. Oh, no question.
Secretary VILSACK. And that creates new jobs and new companies.
Mr. DAVIS. That has to happen. That will be partefficient
homes will be part of any energy policy we have. I am not as concerned aboutas some folks about global warming or climate
change. It is economic security and it isnational security is why
we have to have, in my opinion, a new energy policy in this country.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Hinchey.
Mr. HINCHEY. Thank you, Madam Chair.
LOCAL FARMS
I just want to return briefly to the idea of local farms, small

farms, family farms. And I was trying to find out what approach
was being taken in the recommendations of the 2010 budget for
those issues: small family farms, what was being done to promote
agriculture at that level.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, a series of efforts to create local markets, so that it is easier for people to market the products and
produce that they are producing: the Farmers Market Promotion
Program; the Senior Farmers Market Nutrition Program; the Special Supplemental Program for WIC; resources in the SNAP program; as well as school nutrition.
We are trying to createand using some of the B&I loans to create distribution centers so that folks in the local area can sort of
consolidate their products and then, in turn, those can be sold to
institutional purchasers so that you create local markets. There is
going to be a significant focus on creating more local market opportunities.
When you have 108,000 new entrepreneurs out there who are
selling several thousand dollars worth of goods, if you can get them
more markets, more opportunities to expand, you can move them
ultimately into mid-sized operations. That helps to repopulate rural
communities; it helps to create a series of new businesses that are
offshoots of that effort. It supports the local implement dealer, it
supports the local hardware store, it supports a wide variety of activities; so a focus on creating markets.
Mr. HINCHEY. Well, that is very good. I think the markets are
there, no question about it. And I think that there is a growing interest on the part of a lot of people who live in urban areas, particularly in large cities, who are interested in locally grown
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produce, things that are grown nearby. And because they are
grown nearby, they understand that they are fresher and probably
better, probably more safe and secure.
Secretary VILSACK. I think there is a growing desire on the part
of consumers in America to know more about their food, and that
is a good thing.
And I hope that young peoplein particular, that we do a better
job of educating young people precisely about where their food
comes from, which is why these gardens in the urban centers in
schools and USDA locations around, I think, are important to be
able to reconnect people with precisely where their food comes
from.
It doesnt come from a grocery store. It comes from a farm or a
ranch initially.
URBAN AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT
Mr. HINCHEY. Just finally, is there any interest in what seems

to be in some rural areas kind of rural development, which is going
on, which is eliminating the ability of agriculture to function on
those areas?
In other words, agricultural lands are being turned into community development properties, houses are being built, things of that
nature, spreading out. And I think that is happening in a lot of
areas close to urban areas, particularly here in D.C. In places like
Maryland and Virginia there are a host of agricultural lands that
are being just taken up as a result of increase in development, particularly housing development.
CONSERVING AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY
Is there any interest in that, to try to ensure that in the long

term we are able to sustain the kind of good, substantial agricultural property that we have to produce the food and fiber that our
country needs?
Secretary VILSACK. I would say that there are several initiatives.
One is to make sure that we are investing, not just in new development, but in the rehab of existing facilities.
Back to Congressman Davis point, I think it is important and
necessary for us to consider looking at reducing sort of the carbon
footprint of development in the future. One way you do that is by
taking existing buildings and making them more efficient, modernizing them and creating new opportunities, particularly in central
business areas that have become somewhat dilapidated or are in
tough shape. There is real opportunity there for rehabs.
Secondly, I think it is also important for us to continue to invest
in conservation techniques so that we preserve the quality of our
soil and our water. It is very, very important for us to do that, and
frankly, we need to do more of that.
The top soil that we are all used to, if we dont do the right
things from a conservation standpoint, wont always be there. And
we are seeing the effects of that in some of our rivers and streams
and down in the Gulf.
So there are multiple strategies there.
Mr. HINCHEY. Mr. Secretary, thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Mrs. Emerson.
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Mrs. EMERSON. Thank you.
Let me mention something interesting to Maurice and also to
you, Secretary Vilsack. I actually have a few farmers whoin my
very big rural district, who actually grow hydroponics specifically
for the school-lunch programs, so that our kids in our schools, who
normally are eating french fries and burgers, actually are having
some good things. Sowe are doing new things, even in rural areas
where we would traditionally do row cropping, so just by way of interest.
MCGOVERN-DOLE FEEDING PROGRAM
I also want to thank you, Secretary Vilsack, for your initiative,

your recent initiative, to transfer nonfat dry milk from the CCC to
the Food and Nutrition Service for domestic food programs; and
also so, so grateful for the 500,000 pounds of nonfat dry milk for
the McGovern-Dole school feeding program. It will make a huge
difference.
Do you have any idea how many of the worlds hungry children
are going to benefit from this initiative?
Secretary VILSACK. I dont have a number. I will tell you that it
complements what we are trying to do on the budget, which is to
increase funding for the McGovern-Dole Program. That is fundingas you well know, better than I do, it has been fairly static;
and this is an opportunity, I think, for us to put a slightly different
face on America through the use of what we grow and also what
we know.
I am hopeful that we do a better job of encouraging developing
nations to take advantage of the technical assistance and help that
we can provide.
Mrs. EMERSON. Well, I hopeI know that your heart is there,
and I just hope that this will be a sustained effort over time. And
it will alsoit also happens to benefit our dairy farmers as well,
who are really, really hurting right now.
Secretary VILSACK. They are indeed. And I do know that in 2009
we expect the McGovern-Dole bill generally to assist nearly 4 million people.
The 500,000 pounds of nonfat dry milk from Commodity Credit Corporation inventory will benefit approximately 50,000 children per year for three years through
Save the Childrens McGovern-Dole school feeding program in Yemen. These children are among the 4 million beneficiaries in FY 2009 of the McGovern-Dole program. The donated milk will be combined with baking powder, corn soy blend, salt,
vegetable oil and years to be baked into bread and fed directly to children in 64
schools.
Mrs. EMERSON. Excellent.

Well, I certainly appreciate, and all of us here so strongly believe
in that program that anything that you all will be willing to do to
rob from Peter to pay Paul to increase that funding would be wonderful. And there is more than just feeding hungry people; we benefit as a country as well.
MARKET DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES IN CUBA
I have a question. You probably may need to answer it for the

record, because it is a little long and it is a forward-thinking ques-
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tion. But it has to do with Cuba. And in our fiscal 2009 omnibus
bill we actually had a recommitment of sorts to allowing simple
cash-in-advance sales of agricultural goods to that country.
Well, the Secretary of Agricultureexcuse me, of the Treasury,
not you, indicated an unwillingness to follow congressional intent.
Many of us in Congress are going to continue to try to expand legal
sales of agricultural products to Cuba. I am happy to report that
we sold $700 million in 2008, which is the largest year ever.
Anyway, in that context, it is my understanding that U.S. agricultural industry trade associations, such as the FAS Foreign Market Development cooperators or the Market Access Program participants are allowed to undertake market development activities
in Cuba, provided they receive a license, but not using Federal
funds.
And I needI would like to know, for the record, unless you
know, is the prohibition statutory or is it regulatory; and what
other countries might we limit in this same manner?
Secretary VILSACK. I dont know the answer to that question, and
we will be happy to provide it to you.
Commodity Credit Corporation funds may not be used for market development or
export promotion activities in Cuba and certain other countries. Section 908(a)(1) of
the Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act of 2000 states that No
U.S. Government assistance, including United States foreign assistance, United
States export assistance, and any United States credit or guarantees shall be available for exports to Cuba or for commercial exports to Iran, Libya, North Korea, or
Sudan. However, in 2004, former President Bush waived application of this provision to Libya. These prohibitions do not prevent private U.S. entities, including
USDA cooperators, from undertaking activities in Cuba with their own funding.
Such private activities by USDA cooperators, however, cannot be counted as contributions to USDA supported programs.
Mrs. EMERSON. I appreciate that and appreciate anything that

you can do to help our farmers and producers be better able in the
future to excel.
Secretary VILSACK. That is a complex issue, as you well know.
Mrs. EMERSON. Thanks.
Ms. DELAURO. I would just want to put an asterisk as to what
Mrs. Emerson talked about with the McGovern-Dole; and I would
ask you, Mr. Secretary, many of us fought for McGovern-Dole in
the last farm bill, and we werewe thought we had made a little
bit of progress. This committee, this subcommittee is committed to
McGovern-Dole.
One of the things we heard over and over againand I hope that
we can use your good offices for this, is that McGovern-Dolewhat
is it, what is it about, it is not working, it is not an effective program. It is clearly one of the most effective programs. We had such
a difficult time explaining to our own colleagues, both sides of the
aisle, the effectiveness of McGovern-Dole and also how it ties into
national security issues as well as a feeding program.
And I couldnt more endorse Mrs. Emersons comments on Cuba.
With that, Ms. Kaptur.
Ms. KAPTUR. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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SCHOOL FOOD PURCHASES
Secretary Vilsack, I would like to ask your help in helping me

unwind the food purchases of the city of Toledo school system and
the city of Sandusky, Ohio, school system.
On pages 27(g)38 and 39 of your submission, there are summaries of what Food and Nutrition Services purchases nationally.
It is very interesting to look down the list and really see the majority of it is processed food, and even the amount of fresh tomatoes
is so small, it is actually shocking.
I am one of those people that believes in go local, grow local, buy
local. Our city school systems cannot tell methey say they cannot
report to me what they buy because they report it to the State, and
then the State buys, and then they report it to you.
So I am wondering, could you help me figure out, of the money
that we vote for up here for our schools, just in two school districts
in Ohio, can you find me the numbers of what they are buying, how
much they are buying and what the price they are paying for it is?
I would like to compare to the list you are submitting here.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I think that list was from last years
budget, but we will try to get you updated information. I will tell
you that we are obviously very interested in increasing, as Congress has instructed us to do, fruits and vegetables in those diets.
The foods purchased by the Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) for school systems
in Ohio are delivered to four central warehouses located in Cincinnati, Cleveland,
Dayton, and Columbus and are then delivered to the individual school districts. FNS
is unable to track the shipments beyond the central warehouses, so we are unable
to provide data specifically for the Toledo and Sandusky school districts. The attached spreadsheets provide updated purchase information for FY 2008.
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219
Ms. KAPTUR. I am glad to hear you say that. It is a perfect leadin.
We just had some photos delivered to your staff there. I hope
they shared them with you. One is of a vertical growing system
that we are using in the city of Toledo right now, in conjunction
with our hospitals that are desperately worried about the children
coming into their emergency rooms with rising levels of diabetes
and so forth.
And we need your help in raising consciousness even more and
not just thinking food stamps are the answer for the city. That is
almost an insult. And I vote for food stamps, but when I look at
my district, $100 million a year comes into my biggest county for
food stamps, say, $100 million, that is more money than will come
in for CDBG, all these other Federal programs. That is the biggest
investment program we have on an annual basis.
And it doesnt create fishermen. All it does is tell people how to
try to spend that money at some outfit to buy nachos or Cheetos
sorry to offend anybody out there by a product by that namebut
in food deserts, there isnt good food. So I am on a mission, and
my mission is to get our children fed properly and to have those
communities involved in the production of their own food.
This is not a radical idea. The farm bill of 2008 says your mission at USDA is to assist eligible agricultural producers and rural
small businesses. It doesnt say agricultural producers that are located only in the Plains States; it says agricultural producers. And
if we have youth and others that can produce in those pots that
are before you in that photo, or in those schoolhouses, 12 months
out of the year, who are hungry, and they dont have good nutrition, how can we say no to them? We have to turn these programs to the benefit of the American people.
There is a book out, No Child Left in the Woods, about how
urban kids are afraid of the outdoors. They love their computer.
Boy Scouts are declining in membership, Girl Scouts. Why? They
dont like the outdoors.
What kind of society are we producing here? We have got epidemic levels of ADD, ADHD.
Children have to be comfortable with nature. They have to live
in nature. We have taken that away from them. Agricultural production is a very important part of life. You know that coming from
Iowa. So I just wanted to point out the new farm bill, the new authorities that are at USDA.
The First Lady understands this. Many of us up here have been
talking about it. The staff at USDA needs to understand this. You
have to serve your Secretary well. There is a new farm bill. It has
some new focuses. We need to bring that back to the American people.
Thank you for letting me make that statement. I look for your
help in trying to figure out what the city of Toledo school system
is buying and the Sandusky school system with dollar amounts and
volumes attached. It shouldnt be this hard.
RURAL ENERGY FOR AMERICA
Mr. Secretary, I just wanted to point out also, under section 9007
on Rural Energy for America, that section does not just concern
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biofuels. Under the new farm bill, that is for energy audits, and
those energy audits can happen at agricultural producers. If they
are greenhouse growers, if they are landscapers, if they were nurserymen, if they are running greenhouses, they should be eligible for
those programs; they should not be excluded.
Secretary VILSACK. Those grants are now in the process of being
awarded.
May I make just a couple of comments?
I would ask this committee to do all of us a favor, and I know
this is going to be hard for you all to do.
Ms. DELAURO. Try us.
Secretary VILSACK. But we dont have food stamps. We have a

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.
Ms. DELAURO. I am there.
Secretary VILSACK. The reason I say this, it is an important message issue here that this is really about increasingit is your
point, increasing the nutritional value of what our children and our
families have.
The concept of food stamps has, I think, a negative connotation
that doesnt get to the whole issue of nutrition. And so I have been
encouraging people in my department to really make the transition
away from food stamps to SNAP. It is a very important message
issue.
There are several guides that we have published recently encouraging schools to Eat Smart, a guide to buying and serving locally
grown produce in schools. It is on the Web. I will get you the sites
so that you can link it to your Web site. There is also one, bring
small farms and local schools together.
So we are cognizant of the changes in the farm bill and the direction of the farm bill. We take it very seriously, and we are going
to continue to do so.
The Small Farms/School Meals Initiative, popularly called the farm-to-school
initiative, is based on the cooperation of Federal, State, and local governments, as
well as local farm and educational organizations, and encourages small farmers to
sell fresh fruits and vegetables to schools and schools to buy this wholesome produce
from small farmers. Both schools and small farmers benefit from their participation
in the farm-to-school initiative. Schools provide children fresh, tasty, nutritious
produce, while small farmers acquire new markets. Schools are able to provide fresh
produce quickly and with lower transportation costs by buying it from small farmers
instead of from distant markets. And children learn from farmers who visit their
classrooms about how the produce is grown and the role it plays in a healthful diet,
thereby experiencing first-hand in both the classroom and the cafeteria the value
and appeal of fresh fruits and vegetables.
The FNS Web site provides a manual that is a step-by-step guide of activities for
groups to plan, conduct, and publicize a professional town hall meeting that encourages small farmers and local school food officials to begin a farm-to-school project.
This manual can be found at http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Lunch/Downloadable/
small.pdf.
The Eat Smart. Play Hard.TM Campaign was launched by USDAs Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) to encourage and teach children, parents, and caregivers to eat
healthy and be physically active every day. Eat Smart. Play Hard.TM offers resources and tools to convey and reinforce healthy eating and lifestyle behaviors that
are consistent with the Dietary Guidelines for Americans and the MyPyramid Food
Guidance System. Eat Smart. Play Hard.TM is about making Americas children
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healthier. Resources are available on the FNS Web
teamnutrition.usda.gov/Resources/eatsmartmaterials.html.
site
at
http://
Ms. KAPTUR. Madam Chair, I know the time has expired. I thank
the Secretary.
Let me just say, the words are great, but at the local level where
we live, we know it is not rolled out. We know it is not happening.
It is 1 percent of 100 percent that needs to be done.
So we are glad for the new farm bill. We are glad for the sensitivity of the Secretary. But just recognize, when we write words in
Washington, you know they come down in Iowa always, they dont
come down in Ohio.
Secretary VILSACK. That is our job to get them to the people. You
are right.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Ms. Kaptur.
NATIONAL ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION PROGRAM
I want to move to a different issue, which is the National Animal

Identification Program; $142 million expenditure by Congress and
the taxpayers, an enormous amount of money through fiscal year
2009as I said, $142 millionand we still have no meaningful ID
system.
February 2009, APHIS had enrolled about 500,000 livestock
premises into NAIS. This represents about 135,000 livestock premises in the country.
Last year about this time we discussed this issue with the prior
administration; NAIS had enrolled 32 percent of livestock operations. Twelve months later we have increased by 3 percent; this
is after 5 years of funding. I think USDA may have crossed a line
from implementing a voluntary system to a dilatory animal ID system.
Dont take my word for it. This is what Dr. John Clifford,
APHISs chief veterinarian, said before the House Agriculture Committee not too long ago. This is his opinion, and I quote, The system we have has not worked. Unless we can put enough incentives
in it for livestock producers to voluntarily participate, it needs to
be mandatory. The system has to be effective, and this is not effective.
The consensus is, a new approach, 5 years has not worked; tens
of millions of dollars, not worked. We have to have a better way
of dealing with this.
Mr. Secretary, do you support a mandatory animal identification
system? I am going to ask you that question.
My colleague, Congressman Peterson, who heads up the authorization committee, has said he will not support another dollar for
NAIS unless the Obama administration supports a mandatory system. In his view, the current system does not work; and continuing
the Bush policy is a waste of money after 5 years of the Bush administrations ineffective voluntary approach, where the livestock
industry had ample opportunity for input and for comment.
I want to get an answer to the question on a mandatory ID system.
Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chair, I am supportive of the effort
to make sure that we have an identification system that will allow
us to prevent and/or mitigate problems.
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I would like the opportunity to sit down with those who have
been opposed to a mandatory system in the very near term, to
work through whatever difficulties they have from a privacy or a
confidentiality standpoint, to see, as we structure such a program,
if we can respond to those concerns. Because my concern is that if
you have a mandatory system, and you do not address those issues
in an appropriate way, you can have people spending a lot of time
and a lot of resources trying to figure out how to get around the
system.
What we want is a system that works. We want a system that
people comply with.
Ms. DELAURO. I am going to suggest to you, Mr. Secretary, we
have had a lot of people for the last 5 years trying to figure out
how to get around the voluntary system.
Secretary VILSACK. I dont disagree with you.
Ms. DELAURO. And why? Why should we continue to appropriate
money for a failed system?
Secretary VILSACK. I am not suggesting you should.
I am just saying that when you set up a system, whatever system you set up, if there are concerns about privacy and confidentiality, we need to address those as we set the system up. I would
assume that you would agree with that.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, I would agree with that except that we have
had ample time in which to do this. This is nothing but a continuation of a dilatory tactic.
And let me just say, in terms of the livestock industryI say it
loud and clear to themwhat better would protect the livestock industry, support U.S. exports, protect American consumers, the
Bush animal ID system or a mandatory identification system?
I mean, the USDA announced in March 2007 that it was going
to conduct a cost-benefit analysis for NAIS. Two years later, aside
from hearing rumors about being completed, we are still waiting to
learn about the results of this study. Is there an analysis? What
is the analysis? Is it going to be made available to all of us, or are
we just going toyou know.
And we tried to hold back the last time, and we were persuaded
that we should put, I think, an additional $14 million in this program, which is in the current appropriations bill.
Why are we throwing good money after bad with an industry
that doesnt want to move?
Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chair, I am not disagreeing with you.
I am just suggesting thatand I have talked to Chairman Peterson
about this, and he understands, I think, what I am talking about,
which is basically givingyou go ahead with the process.
I would agree with you that we have to spend these monies more
wisely and we have to have a system that works, right. But what
I am suggesting is that I think it will work better if I at least have
the opportunity to get people around the table, have them explain
what their confidentiality and privacy issues are, and see if there
is a way in which, as this system is being set up by all of you, that
we can address those issues in a way that we dont have problems
with a mandatory system once it is implemented.
That is my only concern.
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Ms. DELAURO. I am going to say to you, Mr. Secretary, the clock
is ticking. I dont know how long you are going to need to talk to
these folks. It should be a very short conversation.
Secretary VILSACK. Weeks.
Ms. DELAURO. Five years they have had an opportunity to think
this through, and $142 million; and we have zero to show for it.
Wisconsin, 100 percent, 100 percent registration. Why? Mandatory. I rest my case and my time is up.
Mr. Kingston.
Mr. Secretary, what did you think of the most recent study of
powder post beetles in South Carolina? I just wanted to make sure
you are still with us. That is the only thing, for example, I can
think of that we havent covered so far.
Ms. DELAURO. Not true, Jack.
SCHOOL VENDING MACHINES
Mr. KINGSTON. Not true at all. I did want to point out something
on vending machines, that the American Heart Association, in association with the William J. Clinton Foundation has been studying and working on the vending machine issue, which I think we
all understand the schools want the revenue and we want the nutrition.
But because of that, the program has already reduced beverage
calories in school by 58 percent, and 79 percent of beverage companies are complying with it. So there is some good movement in that
direction, and I just wanted to underscore that.
RURAL BROADBAND
I wanted to ask, though, about broadband. You know, you have

the RUS that has the existing program, and now we have a new
program. I am glad you are talking, but I do thinkthis is a bipartisan belief of this committeethat we want RUS to be the lead
and continue to.
For one thing, you have an existing definition of rural area in
the farm bill. And would you continue to use that same definition,
do you know?
Secretary VILSACK. I think we are working on refining that definition. I think the instruction was that we really needed to be more
specific about what that definition is.
But as it relates to broadband, I think it is fairly clear that what
we are focusing on are rural unserved areas, for the most part.
Mr. KINGSTON. That is one of our concerns, to make sure that the
money does actually go to rural areas and not areas that have figured out a way to get qualified.
Secretary VILSACK. That is a legitimate concern.
Mr. STEELE. Mr. Kingston, in the stimulus bill it says, at least
75 percent of the area to be served by the product shall be in a
rural area.
Secretary VILSACK. And it defines it as less than 20,000 in population, less than 50,000 in metro area.
Mr. KINGSTON. Do you think your modifications are going to
stray from that definition?
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Secretary VILSACK. Well, I think the definition of rural that we
are working on actually applies to a broader range of programs
than just the broadband. So I dont want to commit myself to a specific definition, but I will tell you that we understand and appreciate what you want us to do, which is, you want us to use those
resources for broadband in rural areas, and you want unserved
areas to receive preference, if you will; as opposed to areas where
they currently have the service, and we would just be adding to
competition.
That is my understanding of what Congress wanted us to do.
Now, if that is not correct, you all need to correct me so I can do
what you want.
Mr. KINGSTON. I actually wasnt in the room, so I dont know one
way or the other. That is another issue.
I have some issues on the Animal Medical Drug Use and Clarification Act, which we passed, and I want to submit those to you
for the record and get your comments on them. And I yield back.
Mr. FARR. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Secretary, I am very excited you are here. This has been a
long day with this committee, but I think the excitement is that
you have the ability in this position to take a department, which
is one of the oldest departments in the Federal Government, and
probably deals with more different areas all the way from commodity exchanges to school lunch programs and international trade
and so on, and really use your skills as a governor and administrator to, hopefully, modernize this Department.
LOCAL SPECIALTY CROPS
And one of the things that strikes meand Marcy brought it out
in her bookis that if we want to grow the markets that you know
are necessaryand I represent a lot of specialty cropsthe markets out there are right in our own backyard. One is the farmers
market you mentioned. You can grow that by requiring that States
issue their SNAP cards, their WIC cards and the other vouchers
that are given out at those farmer markets.
We do that now in Santa Cruz County where the social services
department who manages these things goes and distributes them
there. And I will tell you, 65 percent of the income made at that
farmers market comes from those vouchers; and, you know, they
are buying fresh fruits and vegetables and they are buying local
stuff.
The other problem is that we dontthe schools that we distribute food to cant go out and buy food locally. They have to go
through this system that Marcy was talking about. And that list
that I gave her that she quoted fromand this is the list of the
Department last yearone of the problems, we talk about obesity
and everybody is talking about it, and we need to do something
about it.
I think you need to shake up your Department. You ought to ask
them, without any other, How can we shift money to have a goal
to have a salad bar in every school? And you are going to find out
all the reasons why we cant do it, but we last year spent $90 million on mozzarella cheese, $9 million on peanut butter
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No offense to Mr. Bishop.
Ms. DELAURO. Mozzarella cheese, I might take offense.
Mr. FARR [continuing] And we only spent $51,000 on fresh tomatoes.
So our priorities are all in these old commodity programs and the
processed foods and all of that, and we have to change that by radically looking at what we have talked about earlier of consolidating
all these programs and streamlining them so that you have additional revenue to get the fresh fruits and vegetables in the schools.
And I hope that you will stick to that. I know that you have done
it.
That is just a statement because, Mr. Kingstonis he still here?
It is too bad, because Mr. Kingston was talking about earmarks;
and I would be gladI want you to look atI represent Monterey
and Santa Cruz and San Bernardino Counties. We grow 85 crops
in Monterey Countyit is the number one ag county; it doesnt
have any subsidies of water or anything like that, no commodity
crops85 crops that produce $3 billion in sales for one small ag
county, and that is the highest in the United States.
AGRICULTURE RESEARCH STATION
We cant get that research station, an Ag research station built

there because we are spending the limited money the ARS has on
capital outlay, including the $13 million earmark that Mr. Kingston asked for for last year to get the poultry research facility in
Athens, Georgia. Thats a $270 million project, and its sucking all
the money away from all other projects in the country, including
getting in Salinas, probably the oldestand I am all for earmarking that.
But because youve got issues like, you know, cutting-edge
issuesthis is the E. coli breakout, this is the salmonella breakout,
listeria, this is all the specialty crops, the ones that you dont have
a kill-step for in order to make sure that theyre healthy. And we
are doing incredible things out there, but we really need to invest
in that research station.
So I am for earmarks; and Mr. Kingston says hes not, but he
certainly has gotten a lot of the money that I would like to get to
Salinas.
So those are some observations. And it really is because we count
on you to look at all these programs and figure out how to make
the Department be responsive to the demands of modern society,
and some of these programs are very old and dont meet the test
of common sense anymore.
Secretary VILSACK. Just one comment. We are working with a

number of groups to try to figure out innovative and creative ways
to get people signed up with SNAP. One way, which has been
working in southern California, in particular, has farmers markets
issuing coupons to encourage people to come to the farmers market.
They get a couple extra dollars off a purchase. And while theyre
getting their coupon and standing in line, in some cases, for hours,
to get a $5 coupon, there is someone next to a table which basically
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says, would you like to learn about SNAP? Would you like to learn
if you qualify? Are you currently receiving assistance?
So weve seen a rather significant increase in the number of people signed up from that kind of strategy. So were trying to figure
out ways to expand those kinds of opportunities.
When 67 percent of Americans who qualify are using the program, that means that 33 percent arent, and we have a job still
to do to make sure that we address it. And this is one of the strategies for reducing childhood obesity. We have to get nutritious food
in them and in the hands of moms and dads for their children.
Mr. FARR. When the parent qualifies for SNAP, do the children
also qualify for the school lunch program? I think they do automatically, but it would be on a different take.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, your point is well taken of the need to
streamline and consolidate those programs in the eligibility requirements and the processing of it. But that requires modern technology, and we need your help.
Ms. DELAURO. I have to deal with Mr. Kingston, who is not here.
But Congressman Kingston, as I am told here, did not say he was
against earmarks. He said he was against executive branch picking
a congressional earmark which it asked for it on its own. So in fairness to the absent ranking member, let me place that on the
record.
Mr. Bishop.
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
Along with the technology request, over the past 3 years our subcommittee has provided significant funds and resources to address
the Departments technology challenge. My question is, when can
we expect a return on that investment to get improved service delivery and efficiency? Thats the first question.
MEXICAN TRUCKING PILOT PROGRAM
The second has to do withon a different subjectMexican

trucks. Since the Mexican Government has proposed a retaliatory
tax on U.S. agriculture going into Mexico as a result of the ending
of the Mexican trucking pilot program, tell me what the status of
the discussions are with the Mexican Government in that regard.
Those two questions. You have been helping with the technological challenges there.
Secretary VILSACK. I was trying to figure out precisely how to respond to your question in terms of time.
We are expecting that there will be a prototypeit was a 3-year
program, a 3-year plan to develop a prototype that in turn could
be tested and then determine whether or not it actually provided
the kind of service that we need it to provide. That is in the works,
and we should be seeing that prototype relatively shortly.
Mr. BISHOP. That includes interoperabilityor communication,
rather, between the agencies.
Secretary VILSACK. Right. And that also sort of dovetails with the
whole broadband initiative, which it doesnt do much good if the
farmer service office has got the technology but the farmer cant
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utilize it because he doesnt have access to the Internet or highspeed Internet. So we are working on both ends of that problem.
I have not had an opportunity to speak specifically to the Trade
Representative or to the Secretary of State about discussions relative to the Mexican trucks. My conversations with Mexican officials have been primarily focused on COOL and the implementation of COOL, which I am happy to visit with you about if you
want. We have offered assistance to DOT and Secretary LaHood.
We will have to get back to you in terms of what they can tell us,
the discussions that have taken place.
The President has assigned the Department of Transportation to work with the
U.S. Trade Representative and the Department of State, along with leaders in Congress and Mexican officials, to develop proposed legislation creating a new trucking
project that will meet the legitimate concerns of Congress and our NAFTA commitments. That process is ongoing. The Department of Agriculture will work with the
Transportation Department and other agencies in the preparation of the proposal.
Mr. BISHOP. Thank you.

Mr. DAVIS. I want to follow up on a couple of comments that
have been made.
ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION
Country of origin labeling. The area I am from, we have some

support from that. Animal ID becomes a more difficult task for
some of us in some of the rural areas to absorb and swallow. I
wasnt certain your position on that. Are you taking the position
that animal ID will be a part of this new administrations efforts?
Secretary VILSACK. I believe it has to be, and heres why. One
cow caused a rather significant problem with the market not so
long ago. And I am concerned, from a homeland security standpoint, of what could potentially take place if we dont have a system that would allow us to identify and mitigate consequences of
terrorism activity or of a disease or some problem with livestock.
Having said that, I understand and appreciate that there are
some areas of the country where this is problematic, which is why
I have suggested to the Chair that I want the opportunity to sit
down with folks and work throughand I appreciate that you all
have been talking about this for 5 years, but I think the circumstances are a little different now. And I think there has been
clear indication from the Chair and from the Chair of the Ag Committee that there is a real interest in this, and that may change
attitudes about this.
I want to work with the industry to make this work. Because
what I dont want is for a law to pass, for us to have on the books
a mandatory system, and then have everyone spend a tremendous
amount of time and effort to try to figure out how to get around
it because they have concerns about how the information is going
to be used or where its going to be used. I think we can address
those problems.
Mr. DAVIS. As a side comment, weve had a whole lot more difficulty with peanuts, a whole lot more difficulty with fruits and
vegetables tainting our fruit supply than we have necessarily from
animals.
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Secretary VILSACK. I dont disagree that thats the past. I am also
concerned about the possibility of the future.
When I was Governor, I remember coming to Secretary Ridge
and asking him to set up an agri-terrorism aspect of Homeland Security because I believed that that was one way that you could create real serious problems for this country is if the food supply was
compromised. So I am interested in making sure that we protect
it as best we can, and I think everybody shares that goal.
Mr. DAVIS. And the second comment was, I really hope that we
work together.
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EFFORTS
Ms. DELAURO. Let me just say, Mr. Bishop mentioned the IT effort. You should know, Mr. Secretary, that you have both sides of
the aisle on this committee that is enormously supportive of just
the whole reformation of information technology. We have been appalled at how far back we are at the Federal level, not only here
at USDA but in other areas as well, with information technology
and how agencies communicate with one another. So that you have
real support in this committee to move forward with that effort and
to let us know what is going on.
I will just say, we have been in the dark about what happens,
how it happens, what the contracts are. We have spent money here
where we find out after its implemented that one agency still cant
talk to another agency after spending millions of dollars to do
something. So you have real support here in trying to make your
systems work. Because they work for farmers, they work for ranchers, they work for school systems, they work everywhere in which
we have jurisdiction here. So you just need to know that.
Secretary VILSACK. I am remiss in not thanking you for the work
that you have done, and it is appreciated.
Ms. DELAURO. That was a vote. And I would love to say that people are going to come backand you would probably kill us if we
did that, but, in any case
Secretary VILSACK. I am happy to stay here.
Ms. DELAURO. I know that. Thank you very much.
SUPPLEMENTAL REVENUE ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
I want to ask a question about the Agriculture Disaster payments and any delays in those payments or potential delays.
With the Permanent Disaster program in the farm bill, the Supplemental Revenue Assistance Program, in your testimony you said
you are currently reassessing the regulatory and software development efforts in light of the changes enacted by the Economic Recovery program. Let me tick off the questions: What did you mean by
the statement? What regulatory and software changes are necessary after the enactment of ARRA? Will the changes delay the
delivery of the first SURE payments, and will they delay your promulgation of regulations?
You went on to say, we are on track to issue regulations by November, 2009, well ahead of the date when the data will be available to calculate payments.
I was a little confused by the statement. My understanding was
that USDA had hoped to issue the first SURE payments for the
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2008 crop year sometime this fall. It appears that that has slipped,
and you may not deal with those payments until this winter, at the
earliest. When will USDA issue the first SURE payments? Let me
ask you to comment.
Secretary VILSACK. The statutory price discovery mechanism and
the interrelationship with other USDA programs make it difficult
for us to calculate the SURE payment for crop year 2008, so we
dont expect the rules to be available until September of 2009. The
information I have is that we wont expect payments until sometime in 2010.
Ms. DELAURO. So you wont be making any of those payments
until 2010. Wow. I mean, I think there are going to beI think
that thats real news to folks, Mr. Secretary.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, in the Recovery Act you created multiple benefit options for producers, which makes it significantly
more complicated to calculate. And its a software issue.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, I also understand the administration supported the language, the efforts in the economic recovery package.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I can do this, Madam Chair. I can go
back and see if there is any way in which this process can be accelerated. We understand and appreciate how significant this is, but
we are somewhat hampered by the software development. I will
have to find out if there is any way we can find out
Ms. DELAURO. Well, we should really keep in close touch on this
issue. Because a lot of members of the committee are very interested, and there are a lot of Members who are interested in whats
going to happen here, and we want to make sure that we are moving as quickly as we can.
Secretary VILSACK. We will follow up.
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) of 2009 (P.L. 1115) made
several changes to the permanent disaster programs, primarily the Supplemental
Revenue Assistance (SURE) Program. It provides a waiver for the 2008 crop year
for producers who did not purchase crop insurance or non-insured crop disaster assistance and failed to timely pay waiver fees authorized in the 2008 Farm Bill. It
increases the minimum coverage level for SURE guarantees for producers who buyin under this extended waiver authority. It allows previously eligible SURE producers to elect to receive benefits under multiple payment options. It establishes a
new risk management purchase requirement for producers who elect to pay the
waiver fee authorized in the ARRA. FSA will need to make extensive regulatory and
software modification to implement these new requirements.
The changes are not expected to delay the delivery of the first SURE payments;
however, they will delay our promulgation of regulations. Prior to the enactment of
the ARRA, we now anticipate publication to be in November 2009. Sign-up for
SURE is expected to begin in January 2010 and payments are expected to begin in
June 2010. We are examining options to expedite the payment process; however,
due to the complexity of the SURE program, its statutory price discovery mechanisms, and inter-relationship with other USDA programs that may not be possible.
Ms. DELAURO. I dont know if there are any more questions or

comments.
FARM SUBSIDY PAYMENTS TO POLLUTERS
I am going to submit for the record, just so that you know, I have
questions about farm subsidy payments to those who are polluting.
There is a raft of evidence thats out there that talks about subsidy
payments to polluters and people who are paying enormous
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amounts in fines; and, at the same time, we are providing them
with subsidy payments for their land.
You also had a former administration person who talked about
these two things ought to be separate. If you pollute the land, that
shouldnt preclude you from being able to get a subsidy. But it
seems to me that if you violate State and Federal environmental
quality laws, you cost the taxpayers twice in that instance. But we
will submit that for the record.
I had questions about what at least seems to me to be mismanagement at USDA on NRCS and programs with regard to
NRCS.
But, again, you have been very, very generous with your time.
Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chair, to that point, there is an audit
of NRCS; and we are spending resources and time to try to address
all deficiencies.
Ms. DELAURO. There are serious problems at the agency, there
really are. And I, again, want to solicit your views, the steps that
were taking, all of that to move forward, but it requires more time
to flesh out.
I also have questions about FAS and some of the issues that are
attendant to that. But, as I say, I will submit the rest of my questions for the record and ask my colleagues to do the same.
CLOSING REMARKS
Thank you for your generosity of time.

I will just say, there are a lot of questions. Youve been on the
job a short period of time. We are very, very aware of this. But I
think its important to lay out what some of the questions are.
One of the other questions, by the way, I am going to ask for the
record is the names of the countries on press releases about recalls
of imported products.
Secretary VILSACK. And we will do that.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. Thank you very, very much.
But youve been there a short period of time. But laying out
questions for so long on both sides of the aisle here, we have been
stonewalled from the agency on lots of questions that led to this
committee, again, both sides of the aisle, just saying, you know,
hey, youre not going to answer our questions, youre not going to
provide us with the information? Were an Appropriations Committee. Let me tell you what were going to do.
We look at this as a new day, new dawn, new environment.
Tough questions from both sides but with an interest that are your
interests in order to address the issues in the everyday lives of
folks which this subcommittee and your department have an enormous sway over what happens.
So we look forward to working with you, and thank you again for
the generosity of your time this morning and your candor and clarity on answers. Thank you very much.
Secretary VILSACK. Thank you.
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A443P2
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 22, 2009.

TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
APPROPRIATIONS FOR LAND GRANT INSTITUTIONS IN
THE TERRITORIES
WITNESS
HON. MADELEINE Z. BORDALLO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS

FROM THE TERRITORY OF GUAM
Ms. DELAURO. In the absence of a gavel, I will use my pen, but

the hearing is called to order. I want to thank you. And let me just
say welcome, everyone, here this morning, and particularly I want
to say a welcome to my colleagues.
Just so that we put it in context here, the hearing is a new future of the Appropriations Committees process. And the view is
that it could provide an excellent opportunity for Members to share
their priorities with the subcommittee, and the hope is that in an
effort to deal with transparency, but to increase transparency of
this process. So I am looking forward to hearing firsthand from you
about your communities and what are the issues that are of interest.
Let me ask colleague Tom Latham if he has any comments to
make.
Mr. LATHAM. No, I really dont. I just welcome our colleagues
here, and thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. We have Congresswoman Madeleine
Bordallo, now in her fourth term representing Guam. She joins us
from the Armed Services Committee and from the Natural Resources Committee.
Congressman Gregorio Sablan, who represents the Northern
Mariana Islands, serves on the House Natural Resources Committee and Education and Labor. And Congressman Sablan is in
his first term and the first Northern Marianas Representative in
the U.S. Congress.
Welcome to both of you. Let me just ask you to move forward
with your testimony, and we welcome it. And, you know, obviously,
if there are questions, we will ask some questions. But thank you
again for being here.
And let me also welcome Congresswoman Jo Ann Emerson from
Missouri, who sits on the subcommittee as well.
Congresswoman Bordallo.
Ms. BORDALLO. Good morning, Madam Chairwoman DeLauro
and Ranking Member Mr. Latham. First, I want to thank you for
allowing us to be the first to appear before you, since we have other
commitments this morning.
I came here today to underscore the importance of this subcommittee in providing funding in fiscal year 2010 for the pro(279)
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grams that are specifically authorized to support the land grant institutions in the territories. And I am joined this morning by my
colleague, Congressman Sablan.
We have filed joint requests with Congressman Faleomavaega of
American Samoa, Congresswoman Christensen of the Virgin Islands, and Congressman Pierluisi of Puerto Rico, who, like us, are
contending with a markup session in the Committee on Natural
Resources this morning. So I appreciate your forbearance as I must
leave at the conclusion of my remarks to attend that markup session.
This year, Madam Chairwoman, we request that $1.5 million be
appropriated for the Resident Instruction Insular Grants Program,
which received $800,000 in last years bill; second, that $8 million
be appropriated for the Facilities and Equipment Insular Grants
Program; and third, that $5 million be appropriated for the Distance Education Insular Grants Program.
Now, each of these three programs have been authorized by Congress in recognition of the unique needs of the land grant institutions in the territories and the disproportionately small amount of
Federal funding that they have historically received.
This subcommittee has funded the Resident Instruction Grants
Program, first authorized by the 2002 farm bill, for the past 5
years. And while the House has traditionally supported this program, without representation of the territories in the other body we
have not faired so well in the conference process.
The institutions in the territories were designated as part of the
land grant system in 1972 by an act of Congress. And these institutions, however, are generally classified and treated by USDA as
members of the greater 1862 community of land grant colleges and
universities. That means our institutions have to compete with
more established, greater resourced, and more competitive flagship
land grant institutions in the United States mainland for limited
Federal dollars, and thus, in part, the reason for our request this
morning.
The unique needs and the underdeveloped capacity of the institutions in the territories were acknowledged by USDA in a report
that the Committee on Appropriations requested in 2003.
The institutions in the territories are working today to strengthen their capacity and ability to train professionals to meet the need
for food and agricultural scientists and specialists in our island
communities. Each of our institutions are also making the most use
of limited and at-risk funding to continue extension initiatives
aimed at sharing research-based knowledge and education with
stakeholders in our community that ultimately is improving the
quality of life and, in particular, public health.
Our institutions also comprise the Caribbean and Pacific Consortium, or the CariPac. This consortium was established in 2005 during the first year the Resident Instruction Grants Program was
funded to support collaboration.
Now, with the Resident Instruction funds that have been appropriated to date, these institutions are preparing students to achieve
their own personal career goals and increasing the quality of undergraduate instruction. The University of Guamand, incidentally, Madam Chairman, the university is now headed by my pred-
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ecessor, Dr. Underwood, who is now the president. The University
of Guam, for example, has built the infrastructure needed to begin
transmitting both real-time distant education courses and platform-based distant learning and delivery systems.
High school mentorship programs have also been established,
and undergraduate and graduate scholarships are also being offered.
The amount appropriated each year for the Resident Instruction
Grants Program, however, must be increased if we are to take this
success to the next level. So attached to my written testimony is
a chart outlining the education outcomes that each institution
achieved with the funding provided to date. And I think you all
have this chart.
Each of our territories is also contending with declining revenues
and budget deficits. Providing at least $1.5 million for the Resident
Instruction Grants Program in this years bill will enable our institution to continue attracting and supporting undergraduate and
graduate students in the agriculture, food and nutrition, and animal sciences.
Second, I cannot emphasize enough the demonstrated need in the
area of facilities and equipment improvement for our land grant institutions in the territories. Last year, Congress in the farm bill authorized a new grants program to address these needs.
Very quickly, I want to highlight the most pressing infrastructure need at the University of Guam. In addition to the program
request, I have also requested an appropriation in the amount of
$750,000 within either the Agricultural Research Service or the
CSREES account to upgrade its shrimp and tilapia hatchery facility. The original hatchery building was constructed over 30 years
ago, has gone through nearly 25 typhoons, and was recently condemned by structural engineers.
And, Madam Chairwoman, on one of my recent trips, I did tour
that facility, and it is in terrible shape. It previously housed shrimp
and tilapia tanks for shrimp genetic replications and chillers for
marketing to local, regional, and international stakeholders. And
without this building at the University of Guam, the research facility, graduate students, and stakeholders are seriously crippled.
And the pure genetic stocks that have resulted from up to a decade
of replication will be lost. So the funds I have requested will help
the University of Guam to rebuild this particular facility.
Now, finally, I cannot come before the subcommittee without also
addressing the request I have submitted for an appropriation in
the amount of $100,000 within the accounts for Natural Resources
Conservation Service for the next phase of planning for the Northern Guam Irrigation Project.
The project received $100,000 in a discretionary award in 2006,
but it awaits further funding. And this project will provide adequate, consistent, and affordable agricultural water to farmers in
northern Guam, most of whom live at or below the poverty level
and face inadequate irrigation water supply due to the deteriorated
pipelines and inadequate source development to keep up with increased farm and domestic demand.
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So, Madam Chairman and Ranking Member, I thank you very

much, and members of the committee, for your consideration of all
my requests and for your time.
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288
Ms. DELAURO. I understand the urgency for you to get off to a
markup. Let me just ask a couple of questions, and I will ask my
colleagues if they have questions.
With regard to the grants for the insular areas, give us the onthe-ground sense of what this does in terms of your land grant institutions. How does it strengthen what they do?
Ms. BORDALLO. Well, it certainly has been a success up to this
point. But, as we grow, there is a need for additional funding.
One of the things I want to mention, Madam Chair, is we, like
any other minority area, along with the CNMI, health is very important to us. And for this reason, we have to increase farming. We
have farming, you know, that goes on 365 days of the year; we
dont have any seasons. And so I feel that it is very important that
we increase these very important projects.
Ms. DELAURO. Do all three programs that you mentionednot
the $100,000 and the $750,000, the otherswhat is their relationship to one another?
Ms. BORDALLO. Oh, they are partners, yes. And let me mention,
too, more heavily we rely on Federal funds for some of these funds.
Without it, locally we just could not continue.
Ms. DELAURO. And a question on the irrigation project: What is
the benefit of that project to the communities that you represent?
Ms. BORDALLO. Well, right now, you know, our water system and
all is very inadequate. It is antiquated. We just have toand the
farmers rely on, you knowthey would like irrigation put in. None
of them have it, so they are doing their own watering and trying
to work their crops.
And another thing I want to point out is nearly 80 percent of the
faculty is funded on the USDA budget, too. So that is another important aspect.
Ms. DELAURO. Do you know what the funding is going to be specifically used for? And what is the sense of the overall total project
cost, ultimately, for this? Do we know?
Ms. BORDALLO. $1.3 million is the total cost.
Ms. DELAURO. $1.3 million is the total cost.
Ms. BORDALLO. And I want to mention, too, that, you know, with
the irrigation system and some of this that the funds would handle,
right now farmers have no water at all.
Ms. DELAURO. At all.
Ms. BORDALLO. No, none whatsoever. And we have been talking
about this for years. And we do have droughts on Guam, believe
it or not. We have the rainy season and the dry season. And that
is when we are really affected.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Congresswoman Bordello.
Let me ask my colleague, Mr. Latham.
Mrs. EMERSON. I have a question.
Mrs. EMERSON. Thank you for being here today.
I have a very quick question. I would like to know, with the
shifting of the Marine base and the additional people that suddenly
the thousands and thousands of people that will actually be housed
on Guam, dont you thinkI mean, that is going to put a lot of
pressure on already existing systems. So it seems to me that the
land grant universities and not only doing the research but also en-
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hancing the water systems and the like should help exacerbate
some of the challenges you all are going to face with suddenly having all of these thousands of additional bodies on the island. Is that
correct?
Ms. BORDALLO. The number we are looking at in the buildup is
about 30,000. And certainly that is an impact in any community.
There are 8,300 Marines and their families, which totals 20,000.
And then we have enhancing the Air Force, the Navy, and the
Army we are bring in. So, yes, very definitely.
Now, they are looking at the water system, because one of the
contentions of some of the people are, are we going to have outside
help? Is everything going to be inside the fence, or are they going
to help us outside? And, yes, they are. They are looking at our
power; they are looking at our water systems. But, again, that
wont help the farmers.
Mrs. EMERSON. No, but I should think that you would have a lot
of impact on the farmers and the necessity for the farmers to be
able to further and better develop their techniques and their best
practices for production purposes.
Ms. BORDALLO. Absolutely. Absolutely. Right now, we dont have
any export in Guam. You know, farmers justthey raise crops,
fruits and vegetables. There is a law, a local law, that they provide
the fruits and vegetables for our students in school. But above and
beyond that, we cantnow we have the Federal schools, the DOD
schools, and we dont have the amount.
Mrs. EMERSON. So your request would definitely enhance your
ability to provide fresh fruits and vegetables for those 30,000-plus
new people.
Ms. BORDALLO. Absolutely. Absolutely, Congresswoman.
Mrs. EMERSON. Okay. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. I just have a quick question, because I am interested in the distance learning piece, which I am a strong supporter
of distance learning, which is a tripartite piece here.
Just overall, in terms of the insular areas and the need for distance learning, can you just spend a second on talking about that
need?
Ms. BORDALLO. Well, probably the most important aspect of it is
it enables us to partner with mainland universities.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay.
Ms. BORDALLO. I think that isand I dont know if the Congressman has any further comments on that.
Mr. SABLAN. Oh, Guam is very lucky, Chairwoman. She only has
one island; I have 14.
Ms. DELAURO. You have 14 islands, yes.
Mr. SABLAN. And this spans the length of California or almost
the West Coast.
Ms. BORDALLO. Three inhabited.
Mr. SABLAN. But we do have that communication problem in between the islands.
Ms. BORDALLO. And another point, too, on that same question. It
makes most use of taxpayer funds, and we can tap into national
successes. So it is very important. We are becomingeven though
we are 10,000 miles from Washington, D.C., 22 air flight hours, we
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are becoming closer and closer because of some of these programs
and so forth.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, that is the advantage of distance learning
and its abilities.
Mr. Latham.
Mr. LATHAM. I just wondered, with the influx of military, have
you talked to the Department of Defense appropriationor Defense
Appropriations Subcommittee? Are there plans from the military to
improve facilities over and above this?
Ms. BORDALLO. Oh, yes. It is a $14 billion move from Okinawa.
And everything will be newhousing, so forth. They will be
partnering with the local government on power. The dump sites
will be used by both; water lines and so forth; and highways, highway money. So we are partnering because the local community is
very concerned about that. So yes to your question.
Mr. LATHAM. Okay. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Alexander, do you have any questions of the
witness?
Mr. ALEXANDER. No, no.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, Congressman Bordallo. As
I say, I appreciate your willingness to stay for questions. And if we
have more, obviously we will be in touch with you and with your
staff, and I know you will be in touch with us.
Ms. BORDALLO. I just wish, Madam Chairman, that we would be
able to have other hours for meetings other than 10:00 and 2:00.
It seems that we have so many, you know, problems with the timing here. So I would very much like to stay, but I do have
Ms. DELAURO. No, no, no, I understand. And, again, thank you.
Let me ask Congressman Sablan to present his testimony.
APPROPRIATIONS FOR LAND GRANT INSTITUTIONS IN
THE TERRITORIES
WITNESS
HON. GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN

CONGRESS FROM THE NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS
Mr. SABLAN. Thank you, Madam Chair and Mr. Latham, Mrs.
Emerson and Mr. Alexander. Thank you for having us here this
morning. I ask, if I may, that my statements be inserted in the
record as if read in full. I want to try and shorten this.
Mr. SABLAN. Thank you for having us. And I join Mrs. Bordallo,
on behalf of our colleagues, to highlight our joint request for appropriations for resident instruction, facilities and equipment, distance
education grant programs that authorized by the Food Conservation and Energy Act of 2008 for land grant institutions and territories.
The insular programs, as they are generally known, are important means through which the Department of Agriculture helps address the unique and growing needs of this set of underserved, underdeveloped, minority-serving institutions.
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I want to bring up three items. Mrs. Bordallo was able to discuss

the land grant, but I have two other issues that I would like to
bring: the Kagman Watershed and the Garapan Public Market.
Kagman has one of the richest soil in the entire Northern Mariana Islands, and they get about an hour of water maybe 4 or 5
times a week, if they are lucky. And so a lot of it depends on the
rain. And the watershed, since 1993, 16 years, the Natural Resources Conservation Services have began working on the Kagman
Watershed Project. And it is authorized, the project is authorized,
and it just needs funding. We have been having a difficult time
funding it.
And the purpose of the project is to reduce flooding of agricultural land and public roads by collecting the runoff from the mountainsides above the peninsula. And the water needs to be collected
in a reservoir and then distributed to farmers for irrigation. There
is about 3,750, almost 4,000 acres of Kagman land, and the area
is intensely farmed for vegetables.
We import a lot of our vegetables from California. And they are
great, they are great vegetables. It is just that the time it takes to
get there and the cost of shipment is very exorbitantly expensive
to ship from the West Coast to Saipan. And with this we could control some of this erosion and provide more water for the farmers,
because the farmers are beginning to produce. And they do contribute to school lunch programs; they do contribute to horticulture,
military right now. And then we will be contributing to the military
buildup and the commissaries on Guam.
The second project that I have brought up is the Garapan Public
Market. Here in Washington, D.C., you have the Eastern Market.
I am sure in each of your districts you each have markets. And,
even in Guam, they have their own markets. For the Northern
Mariana Islands, at the present time, they have canopies.
They put up, erect tents. And they do it on a Thursday night at
a certain place, on a Saturday at a certain place, on a Tuesday
night. These are things they put up for a couple of hours and then
sell their produce and then take it down. There is no running
water, there is no sanitation. We would like to establish this, because this is where they sell not just produce but they also sell agriculture.
I just came from the Northern Mariana Islands. The mayor of
Tinian started a seaweed and an abalone project, to grow these
things, so we dont have to buy them from Asia. Right now we are
buying them from Asia. And the market will give everybody an opportunity to come together, have sanitized a place where they come
in and probably have chills and those kind of stuff to store fish so
that they dont spoil as often and they are more fresh. And so I am
asking for that also.
And, again, I attach myself to Mrs. Bordallos testimony on the
issue of land grants. And I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
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296
Ms. DELAURO. I just have a quick question. The $2.3 million, will
that complete the watershed project?
Mr. SABLAN. No.
Ms. DELAURO. What is your sense ofwhat will this get you, in
terms of this project, in making this area valuable?
Mr. SABLAN. This will be the waterway phase. There are other
things: the reservoir and sediment basin for another $2.8 million,
and $900,000 for the pump and transfer pipeline.
One of the advantage, also, we need to do this, is that some of
the soil is eroding into the ocean, and it is causing problems in the
corals.
Ms. DELAURO. Right. It is a viable agricultural production now,
and so we want to try to increase and enhance its ability to do this,
rather than dealing with shipping from California.
Mr. SABLAN. Very much so. It would increase production.
Ms. DELAURO. What do you grow? What is growing?
Mr. SABLAN. Everything from tapioca to sweet potato, leafy vegetables. We dont have very good carrots. Some of our produce are
local. I mean, and jicama, you know, melons, cucumbers, you know,
all the good stuff that I dont really eat as often as I should, but
the good stuff. And right now they are imported. Bananas are
grown, but many people have their own bananas, but they are
grown there. But many people have bananas in their backyard. I
think I am the only one who doesnt grow bananas, but I have
neighbors and relatives I can ask them for it. But, really, all the
stuff that are needed are sold at the market.
Mr. Bob Jones just took over this one market on Saipan. He
opened it last Thursday, and I was invited to it. And almost half
the store are reserved for fresh produce because Mr. Jones doesnt
want to import produce from the States. And he took out several
farmers. Mr. Tony Pellegrino, who is now getting the farmers togetherthere is a farmers cooperation, association. He is getting
them together. He is doing the set-up for when the military comes
into Guam. He is starting already. But he is going to do it on a
larger scale, where he is going to collect all this produce and bring
them to the military, the commissaries on Guam.
And so we are looking forward to all these things. It not just encourages production, but not just for our ownI prefer that it be
encouraged for our own food right now so that we dont needbut
it also has an opportunity for helping out with the military buildup
in Guam.
Ms. DELAURO. Just for my own information, to help my colleagues, there are 14 islands?
Mr. SABLAN. Yes, there are. There are two active volcanos. The
other one just erupted last week again. But there are 14 islands
that stretches about the length of California almost. The last island
is very close to Iwo Jima. Some of these islands are preserved, so
no one is allowed on them unless you are a scientist.
Ms. DELAURO. Is it preserved for marine life?
Mr. SABLAN. It is preserved for nature, just preserved.
The islands, there are actually seven islands that are inhabitable, except that it just gets costly, so people move down. There are
no infrastructures. At one time, there were a lot of people staying
up there for copper production, but the price of copper came down,
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so people moved back down to the districts. The schools are there;
they want their children to finally have education and all these
things.
But just imagine, going from Guamyou have an idea where
Guam is? The islands stretch out, and the furthest north island,
which is also a preserve and is now part of this national monument
that the President just declared, is very close to Iwo Jima. And
great islands, beautiful islands. Some of them have dolphins. I used
to scuba dive, and have dolphins, some of them. Beautiful, beautiful islands.
Ms. DELAURO. As Mrs. Bordallo said, there are three that are
habitable?
Mr. SABLAN. Three have major populations. The other islands do
have, but they are not large. And, really, I think all of us should
go out one of these days.
Mr. LATHAM. I think we should do a CODEL.
Ms. DELAURO. I like it. I like it.
Mr. SABLAN. I knew you guys were my best friends today.
Ms. DELAURO. I am sorry, as I say, because I will be honest with
you, I dont know much.
Mr. SABLAN. It is really far from Connecticut.
Ms. DELAURO. How about Iowa? I bet it is different than Iowa
and Louisiana, as well.
Mr. LATHAM. It is just like Iowa.
Mr. SABLAN. But we really have needs. Our government is struggling. We depend on tourism, basically, now.
Ms. DELAURO. Is that what it is? It is tourism?
Mr. SABLAN. Yes. And the drop of the won, Korean won, they are
just not coming. Japan has their own financial difficulties; they are
just not coming. Tourists from the United States, you know, it is
so far away. We get a few tourists. We are getting Russians, and
they are really excellent tourists because they spend a lot of
money. But that may stop on November
Ms. DELAURO. But is it mostly agriculture?
Mr. SABLAN. No, it is mostly tourism. There is fishing, but most
fishing is just subsistence for now.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. Thank you. I dont have any more questions. Thank you very, very much.
Mr. LATHAM. Why would the tourism stop on November 28th?
Mr. SABLAN. Well, the Russian tourists, because under the new
visa waiver programthe federalized immigration system starts on
November 28th, unless we get Homeland Security to see where we
are coming from. But we are hopeful.
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very, very much. Thank you for coming by. Appreciate it.
Mr. SABLAN. Thank you for having me.
Ms. DELAURO. I am going to ask Congressman Hall to join us.
Congressman John Hall is in his second term and represents New
Yorks 19th District, serves on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, Veterans Affairs, the Select Committee on Independence and Global Warming.
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Welcome to you, Congressman Hall. And obviously your entire
statement will be in the record, and you can summarize or you can
as you choose.
NEW YORK PROJECTS
WITNESS
HON. JOHN HALL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE

STATE OF NEW YORK
Mr. HALL. Thank you, Chairwoman DeLauro, Ranking Member

Latham, Representative Alexander, for inviting me to appear before you today. And I would be happy to arrange a CODEL to Orange County, New York, the home of West Point as well as the
Black Dirt region, where the soil is so dark and rich that it is darker than the top of this table.
One of the requests that I have submitted to your committee is
about the Black Dirt region, which has acres upon acres of this extremely fertile muck soil, used to produce onions, potatoes, and
other specialty crops. In July of 1997, a severe hailstorm struck
2,500 acres of onion fields in the Black Dirt region. Scores of onion
leaves were damaged, allowing water and bacteria to seep deep
into the heart of the plants.
Farmers in my district asked the USDA for permission to destroy
their crops but were told that, under existing crop insurance policies, it would only be considered a sound farming process to care
for the crop and bring it to harvest. Orange Countys onion growers
were forced to finance multiple pesticide applications and weeding,
harvest preparation, grading and packaging for crops that wound
up to be unmarketable.
The USDA reversed their policy in late September of 1996 and
then gave the onion growers permission to destroy the onions in
the field, which would have allowed them to replant during the
same season. At that point, however, the vast majority of our farmers had already completed the harvest, spent large amounts of capital caring for rotten crops. And, as a result, growers in the region
were forced to seek funding through large USDA loans to survive.
In order to provide assistance to these already financially
strained farms who seem to undergo either a drought or a flood
every year or every other year, I am asking the subcommittee to
include language in the fiscal year 2010 Agriculture Appropriations
bill to encourage the USDA to forgive the remaining balance of the
loans issued between September of 1996 and July of 1997 to farmers in the Black Dirt region.
These farmers should not have to pay for USDAs mistake, which
forced them to take out these loans more than a decade ago. By forgiving the loans, the USDA would remedy a previous injustice
while providing desperately needed financial assistance to growers
in the region.
My district is also home to dozens of lakes, many of which are
in critical condition. I submitted a request for a lake aeration
project for the Village of Greenwood Lake, which has been classified as a critical water body due to the large amount of phos-
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phorous entering the lake, creating damaging algae blooms and

weed growth, leading to toxic gasses and eutrophication of the
water.
I have requested $177,000 for the Village of Greenwood Lake to
use an inversion oxygenation system to remove toxic gasses from
the water, increase water quality, improve fish growth, reduce
algae and weeds, and eliminate odors. And I appreciate your consideration of this project, which would be beneficial both to the environment and the residents of the community.
Lake Oscawana is a natural two-mile lake in Putnam County,
New York, whose water quality has been declining for the past 40
years. New York State DEC recently concluded that remedial
measures need to be taken without delay. And we have submitted
a request to your subcommittee for a million dollars for the Lake
Oscawana Management and Restoration Plan, calling for binding
the existing phosphate in the lake and preventing phosphate from
entering the lake by constructing storm catch basins and storm
drains to capture the phosphate from storm runoff. Without this
funding, the lake will die.
I have also submitted a request for the Hudson Valley Agricultural Viability Program, which is run by the Hudson Valley Agribusiness Development Corporation. This program fosters economic
development in the Hudson Valleys agricultural industry by using
methods like gap financing, business assistance for agricultural
start-ups and expansions, and different networking opportunities
for farmers and other agricultural entrepreneurs in the Hudson
Valley. I encourage you to provide funding for this valuable program.
I thank the committee for granting me this time to speak today
and for your consideration of these important projects in New
Yorks 19th District. And I look forward to working with you in the
coming months on this legislation. And I would be happy to answer
any questions.
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302
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, Mr. Hall.
Mr. Latham, do you have questions?
Mr. LATHAM. I just have one question. The onion farmers, were
they paid insurance losses?
Mr. HALL. The onion farmers I dont believe were paid. I dont
think so. I think what they did was they tried to do what they were
told was the correct procedure with the crop, which would not have
required insurance because they were harvesting. And then when
it turned out that it was unmarketable, they were given permission
to destroy it. But the reason that they had to take out the loans
was because they had not received disaster aid.
I can get more information on that.
Mr. LATHAM. Yes, if you would. I mean, I understand the situation, but if they were paid with
Mr. HALL. I will find out with certainty for you. That is a good
question.
Mr. LATHAM. What is the request then, also, on the Hudson Valley Agriculturalis there a number?
Ms. DELAURO. I think it is $1.5 million.
Mr. LATHAM. 1.5.
Mr. HALL. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. LATHAM. Okay. That is all. Thank you.
Mr. HALL. These are among the small businesses in the Hudson
Valley that not only provideusually, when things work out well,
they provide a healthier environment. Orange County was, before
the economic downturn we are experiencing, was the fastest growing county in New York State. And, by farming, not only do these
businesses and these farmers provide us with food that is grown
close to us, which is fresher when it gets to market and which prevents us from having to eat food that is dependent upon a long
interstate highway system or rail system and, therefore, could be
interrupted, the supply could be interrupted for some of these crops
if we were not able to get produce from the West Coast or from the
Midwest, but it also prevents overdevelopment.
And the overdevelopment pressure coming up, population moving
up from New York, was immense until the real estate downturn.
And, once the situation turns around, which sooner or later I expect it will, we will once again see farms being cut up and divided
into small plots with houses on them, making farming actually a
viable way for people to survive and feed their families in all of our
interests, as well.
Mr. ALEXANDER. No, maam.
Ms. DELAURO. Let me justit was interesting, this morning I
met with some small farmers from Oklahoma and other parts of
the country, the Midwest. And they wanted me to be sure that this
committee would be concerned about commercial farming in the
Midwest, et cetera, and that folks in Connecticut and New York
would understand what farmers lives were about. And I said,
Well, you know, we do, in fact, have farms in Connecticut and in
New York, with some of the same kinds of difficulties and problems
that you have, as well, in terms of disasters, et cetera, et cetera.
So it is just an interesting juxtaposition here for me this morning,
and the reality about what happens in some of these areas.
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I, too, like my colleague Mr. Latham, we need to find out if there
was an insurance payment on that.
Mr. HALL. We will.
Ms. DELAURO. How many onion growers were affected?
Mr. HALL. I think it is in the range of a dozen. And, once again,
I will get the exact number for you.
But they are a group of small farmers who are always, it seems,
on the verge of either giving up or being successful or perhaps
planting just a holding crop, like grass, to keep the erosion, if we
have a flood. We have had three 50-year floods in the last 6 years.
You know, it is between the Delaware and the Hudson River Valley. And the Wallkill and the Minisink Rivers run through it, and
extreme rain events cause them to lose soil. So sometimes they
plant holding crops onto sides of the irrigation ditches in fallow
areas. But there are living on the edge.
Ms. DELAURO. On the edge, sure.
But, also, if you can, explain to us how come this is occurring
now? I mean, this happened 1996, 1997.
Mr. HALL. Because I am here now. I wasnt, obviously, in Congress when this hail storm occurred. And I have learned from
meeting with them and talking to them that they are still trying
to pay off loans from 1996 and 1997.
Ms. DELAURO. Do you know what the average loan amount was
for folks through FSA?
Mr. HALL. No. I will find that out for you.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. We can follow up with your office on that.
So it was a crop insurance policy? Just explain that to me for a
second, in terms of the crop insurance. They had to be brought to
harvest.
Mr. HALL. My understanding is that, in order to collect crop insurance, the crop would have had to have been destroyed and be
declared unmarketable. And so they went through the season harvesting, treating with pesticides, weeding, preparing, and then
wound up with a crop which in the final analysis was rotten anyway. So they lost a year and
Ms. DELAURO. They petitioned the USDA, if you will, for permission to destroy the crop, but they were told under the existing crop
insurance policy that sound farming process would be to care for
and to try to bring it to harvest, so they got
Mr. HALL. I think they know their crops and their soil better
than USDA does.
Ms. DELAURO. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Mr. HALL. We will get those details for you.
Ms. DELAURO. Yes, that would be terrific to do that.
Mr. HALL. Thank you for your consideration.
And, of course, many of you know probably from your own districts that water is a big issue, be it drinking water, wastewater,
et cetera. And I cant tell you how much I am hearing from my 43
towns and cities I represent. And these lake issues are critical because of the combination of natural phosphorus coming out of the
rocks surrounding them, runoff from lawn treatments, sewage
treatment plants in municipalities, private septic systems at
homes, which used to be sparse and have gotten to be more and
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more crammed together. And all of that running into the lakes is
causing a problem.
Ms. DELAURO. What are the current uses of the lakes? Is it fishing? Is it recreation?
Mr. HALL. Well, it is fishing and recreation. That is one of the
things that keeps the property values around those lakes up and
provides tourism and so on.
Ms. DELAURO. In terms of the water quality, what effect has that
had on the surrounding communities?
Mr. HALL. It reduces the oxygen content, kills off the fish, causes
algae and
Ms. DELAURO. Is it commercial fishing that is done there?
Mr. HALL. It is recreational fishing, but that is obviously a big
tourism attraction.
Ms. DELAURO. Sure. Well, as somebody who comes from the area
of the Long Island Sound, you know, with fishing and recreation,
that is a combination.
I have just a couple questions on the Hudson Valley, the Agricultural Viability Program. Are you making the request for funds
through the rural development programs? Yes is the answer to
that question.
Mr. HALL. Yes.
Ms. DELAURO. And if you could just give us a little bit of a handle on how the program would work, to look at economic growth
and jobs, et cetera, in your view.
Mr. HALL. Well, it is a combination of trying to educate farmers
about improved or new practices, other possible crops that could be
grown, and setting up meetings with them and trying to get marketing opportunities they dont have.
It is ironic that we grow some of the best onions in the world.
In fact, if you havent had an Orange County onion, you havent
lived. But you can go to Wal-Marts or Hannafords or Stop & Shop
or any of the big supermarket chains, and you cant find them. And
I am trying to help, we are trying to help, and the State is trying
to help them get our local crops into our local supermarkets, not
just into the farmers markets. I mean, those of us who know to
go on a Saturday or Sunday to the farmers markets can get real
tomatoes and really good onions and so on and so forth. But, unfortunately, it is the buyers for the big stores who move a large
amount of product.
So those are the kinds of things that we are trying to do and that
the program would enhance.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very, very much. And, again, we will
continue to work with you and with your staff on these.
Mr. HALL. Thank you very much.
I see Congressman Putnam.
Mr. PUTNAM. I need to get you all some orange juice for the witness table.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you. Thanks for coming by.
And Congressman Putnam is in his fifth term. He represents
Floridas 12th District, and he serves on the Financial Services
Committee.
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And you know the drill, Congressman. You are welcome to summarize your statement. Obviously, the full statement will be read
into the record.
CITRUS GREENING DISEASE
WITNESS
HON. ADAM PUTNAM, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE

STATE OF FLORIDA
Mr. PUTNAM. Thank you, Madam Chairman. And thank you for
the opportunity to be here. Mr. Latham, Mr. Alexander. Thank you
for giving all Members the opportunity to come before you.
Under the rules of the House and rules of your committee, what
I am here to discuss is technically an earmark, but it is an earmark that impacts Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Arizona,
and California. And at least 27 Members of Congress have signed
on to the request, but it is a large request. And I think it bears
public scrutiny and this committees attention and review.
And it is to continue fundingthis is not a new request, but it
is an expansion of an existing programthe Citrus Health Response Plan, CHRP, which is a cooperative arrangement between
the States that I mentioned, between the State Departments of Agriculture, but primarily funded by the USDA, to deal with what
has been called by the New York Times and USA Today, as well
as people who actually know what they are talking about, the
worlds most destructive citrus disease, which is in Asia known as
Huanglongbing and in the United States known as citrus greening.
And there is no known cure. And we are a long way toward developing the appropriate treatment, containment, psyllid control and
other things.
And there are really two pieces to this problem. One is the disease itself, and the second is the vector of the disease, which is a
psyllid, a bug. And so, research thus far that you have supported
and you have funded has determined thus far that the best way to
control the disease is to control the psyllid. That seems to be the
easiest thing to get our arms around. And so research continues in
that vein.
In California they have the bug; they dont have the disease. In
Florida we have both, and it has been devastating. We have seen
infection rates where a citrus grove may have a 5 percent infection
rate when they discover the greening presence in that particular
citrus grove, and within 12 months it is 40 percent. It has an extraordinary spread. The range of the bug is as yet undefined, but
it is a long range that that bug can fly in any particular day. And
everywhere that it goes, it feeds on new, young fleshing growth.
So, in addition to it exacerbating the spread and accelerating the
spread, even without accounting for human movement of plant material, it also has further curtailed the growth or the sustainment
of the existing acreage of the industry, because people refuse to
plant new trees because that essentially baits in the bug that
spreads the disease. Older, more mature trees that have tougher,
less tasty leaves are less vulnerable to the disease. So when people
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pull out the tree, they dont replant because that is essentially adding back to the problem. So you are seeing a steady decline in acreage, steady decline in trees. Long term, this is a huge problem for
the citrus industries in all citrus-producing areas of the country.
So those are the points that I wanted to be sure and get across.
The other point I want to be sure and get across is grower involvement. In Florida, we fund through a box tax an actual agency
of the government; there is a Florida Department of Citrus. And
the growers tax themselves primarily for marketing, so that you
can see a TV commercial that says, Buy Florida orange juice. Paid
for by the Florida Citrus Growers.
They have transferred, on their own, $20 million of grower-funded monies into this research effort. So there is real skin in the
game, not in-kind donations, not counting growers riding around in
trucks as labor costs that is a matching account for the Federal
Government. They have put $20 million in real dollars into an account to do the research.
And to make sure that it is managed properly, they have asked
the National Academy of Sciences to identify how to spend that
money. So it is not just a bunch of growers sitting around a table
saying, well, I think the answer is this, or I think the answer is
that. They are bringing in real experts, a blue ribbon panel from
the National Academy to monitor and regulate and direct this
grower investment.
So I believe that it iswhen you look at the standards for why
would I ask someone from Connecticut to pay for this, this is not
limited to any one congressional district; it is not even limited to
any one particular State. There is a tremendous economic impact
to all of the States who are citrus-producing States. It is a $12 billion industry in Florida alone. We certainly want to make sure that
we contain it and treat it in Florida and prevent its spread into
Louisiana, Texas, Arizona, and California.
And so I believe that there is a compelling national interest for
the United States Department of Agriculture to dramatically expand their commitment to research on new varieties that are more
resistant to the disease, ways to control or eradicate the disease,
and ways to control or eradicate the psyllid that transmits the disease.
So that, in sum, Madam Chairman, is the purpose of our request
for a significant expansion of your current funding for the CHRP
program.
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315
Mr. Latham.
Mr. LATHAM. Yeah, is there any particular type of citrus that it
affects more than another? Or is it just anyI mean, is it lemons
or oranges more so than
Mr. PUTNAM. As of now, it is pretty indiscriminate. There have
been other citrus diseases that wereyou know, grapefruit was
more vulnerable than Valencias. This appears to be pretty indiscriminate.
Mr. LATHAM. When you call it greening, what happens to the
plant?
Mr. PUTNAM. Well, the telltale sign, when scouting crews are
moving through the groves looking for itand the reason why they
call it Huanglongbing is that I believe it translates to dragon
disease or something like thatyou will see in the middle of a
green tree this unusual sprout up through the middle of it that is
a vivid yellow or white off color that just really sticks out like a
sore thumb. When you see that, it is already done, you are too late.
But it causes a rapid decline of the entire tree.
Previous citrus diseases that you have funded were slow decline;
you could continue to harvest citrus for several more years after
that. This is a very rapid decline where you are not only losing the
fruit, which is 1 years income, you are losing the tree, which, when
replaced, will be 5 years before it is paying its own freight again.
So that is the real challenge. There is 100 percent mortality, and
it is very rapid.
Mr. LATHAM. Are they doing anything in Asia that we could
learn from, do you know, to treat this?
Mr. PUTNAM. Interestingly, there is kind of ayou know, the
largest citrus-producing areas in the world, particularly for juice,
are Florida and Sao Paulo, Brazil. And then for table fruit you
would throw in California. The Asian industries are very small, but
the researchers who have been over there actually have come up
with an interesting finding, that there is some kind of an oil or an
essence or compound in guava. You probably dont have too many
guavas in Iowa, but we have them in south Florida, and they are
very popular in Latin American cuisine.
And they are actually experimenting with intersetting citrus
with guava as kind of a home remedy approach to repelling the
psyllid. It doesnt do anything about the disease, but it keeps the
disease vector out. And so, since planting guava trees throughout
the 800,000 acres of citrus in Florida is unworkable, they are looking for exactly what it is in that guava plant that makes the difference, so that you could convert it to an oil or a compound or a
spray material that could be sprayed on to the trees or added in
some form of the production strategy and find out what it is that
is so offensive to the psyllid.
But they discovered that on a mountainside in Vietnam.
Mr. LATHAM. Really?
Mr. PUTNAM. Yeah.
Mr. LATHAM. Interesting.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
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Mr. ALEXANDER. Mr. Putnam, it is obvious, from the numbers
that you threw out telling us how much local producers and farmers had already invested into the prevention of this disease, that
you were defending your so-called earmark request. And I hate
that we have to defend a request that is legitimate, regardless of
where it is or what it is for.
So the question is, will USDA, in your opinion, they are not going
to try to address this without your request, to the point that you
would like it addressed?
Mr. PUTNAM. Well, I dont know that I would characterize it necessarily that way. There is funding in the Presidents budget request that is more consistent with where this funding has been in
the past. The reason for the ask for the expansion of the program
is that all of the other citrusthe money that has gone in the past
has only gone to Florida, because we are the only ones who have
it. The other citrus-producing States have suddenly realized they
need to keep it out.
And the only way they are going to keep it out is to have a dramatically expanded program that is detection in their own States,
ramping up the research because I think everybody, frankly, believes that it is inevitable that it will spread to those States and
they want to be ready for it so that they are not experiencing the
kind of losses that Florida has had. So you are seeing a really remarkable partnership between typically competitors coming together to jointly fund research and jointly lobby the Congress to
make this a greater national research priority.
We are working with USDA and the other States departments
of agriculture to refine the amount that is being requested, so that
we are asking for exactly the right amount of money as opposed to
just rounding it off to the nearest million and saying, well, we
think this is what it is going to be. They are actively involved in
what the precise ask will be when you reach that point in your
process. And so that is really the reason why we have ramped it
up.
We have always treated this as a Member request because that
is how it was sort of born, and so we have maintained that posture.
But USDA has worked with the industry and the State departments of agriculture to fund it.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. Just, I think, for some clarity, my understanding
is thatand you can help me with going back to when this startedthat it has been $40 million annually through APHIS for this
program. Does that go back to 2005? So it is about 4 years. So we
have done $40 million every year since 2005. And the request now
is for $64 million. Is that
Mr. PUTNAM. It is 100.
Ms. DELAURO. No, I think it is 64.
Mr. PUTNAM. Excuse me, excuse me.
Ms. DELAURO. It is the 40 plus 64, so it is $104 million then for
this year.
Mr. PUTNAM. That is correct.
Ms. DELAURO. So it is the 4 years of the 40 and now 104. Is that
right?
Mr. PUTNAM. Yes, maam.
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Ms. DELAURO. What are the additional activities? Help me with
this. Because it seems like we have a worthwhile effort here, but
we have gone, you know, $160 million and now we want another
$104 million. Tell me what we are getting for this, to get at this
difficult issue.
Mr. PUTNAM. You are adding 4 more States to the mix. What you
have done in the past was substantially limited to the State of
Florida. And with California and Texas, in particular, but it is also
Louisiana, Arizona, and the other minor citrus-producing States
coming onboard, they recognize that they have to take extraordinary measures in their own States to be prepared for what is unfortunately likely to be an inevitable spread of the disease into
their citrus-producing region.
Ms. DELAURO. Is it there yet? And I understand prevention. Is
it
Mr. PUTNAM. In California, which is, with all due respect to the
other citrus-producing States, the other 800-pound gorilla in terms
of citrus, they have the vector, they have the psyllid. They do not
yet have the disease.
Ms. DELAURO. Yeah, you said that. Okay.
Mr. PUTNAM. So one of more expensive components to this,
whichfor example, in the State of Florida to guarantee clean, new
plant materialin other words, clean bud wood; clean, new, reset
baby trees that go into the ground when old trees are pulled out
the entire citrus nursery industry in the State of Florida has been
relocated above the citrus belt, above the frost line, to get them out
of all of the production areas. So we essentially rebuilt an entire
nursery industry in north Florida well away from commercial citrus as a way of guaranteeing future clean plant material.
That is one of the major lines in this request for the other States.
Florida has already bitten the bullet. That is a big expense component.
The survey and detection in the other States is also one of the
larger expenditures in the request, as well as the bench work, the
lab, just the old-fashioned science, to try to find what the right
compound is, what the right chemical is, what the right natural
predator is for the psyllid so that we can control this and prevent
the eradication of the citrus industry in the United States.
Ms. DELAURO. So the $160 million has been for Florida alone, is
that correct? The 4 years, the $40 million for 4 years? That has
been for Florida. We now are thinking about California, Texas
Mr. PUTNAM. Substantially, yes.
Ms. DELAURO. Substantially, it has been for Florida. And now we
are talking about an addition of California, Texas, Louisiana, Arizona.
Mr. PUTNAM. Arizona. And I am also told that, in the early years
of that CHRP program, it was
Ms. DELAURO. Iowahe was looking to see if Iowa was included.
Mr. PUTNAM. Maybe Ames can help us solve this problem.
But in the early years of CHRP, CHRP was born to fight actually
citrus canker.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, this is a question I had, as well. And excuse
my naivete, because I have sat on this committee long enough. And
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I think we did for citrus canker in 2009 $1.2 million. I know there
is another request for $4 million this time around.
So is the psyllid related to citrus canker, or is this something
else?
Mr. PUTNAM. No. Here is just the nasty history: This committee
was funding the citrus canker eradication effort for a number of
years
Ms. DELAURO. Yes. And we continue to do it.
Mr. PUTNAM. And we were even or winning against the disease
until 2004. And during 2004, Florida experienced four hurricanes
in about 9 weeks. And that citrus disease is spread by wind-driven
rain, which we had a fair amount of that particular summer.
And so, the back-to-back seasons of 2004 and 2005 when we had
Charley, Ivan, Wilma, Frances, Jeanne, and Katrina all passed
through the State in those two summers, USDA, along with the industry, came to the conclusion that we had lost the fight against
citrus canker because it was now endemic, at substantially the
same time they discovered the presence of the worst citrus disease
on the planet, which is greening.
And, frankly, to their credit, instead of acting like a bureaucracy,
they were pretty agile and shifted the existing teams that had been
funded for canker, the teams that were trained to go into the
groves and look for the given disease, they retrained them to look
for greening. We essentially shifted what had been the cankereradication program into what became the greening program, all
under this umbrella that is the CHRP, Citrus Health Response
Plan.
And so, what was born as the canker program morphed into the
greening program, and that is what you have been funding.
Ms. DELAURO. And so the $1.2 million for this year for the 2009,
which we just got signed, that money will be used for the greening?
Or is that
Mr. PUTNAM. No, that is additional research on the canker.
Ms. DELAURO. That is research on the citrus canker.
Mr. PUTNAM. Correct.
Ms. DELAURO. But is there still the view on thatand, you
know, as I say, we have been funding these because we want to
make sure that we have a healthy industry. But is there still the
view that this has been lost, in other words, the fight against citrus
canker has been lost?
Mr. PUTNAM. The approach that we had been taking on citrus
canker was the destruction of the tree. And that practice ended, because we were burning the village to save the village. And so we
ended that approach.
That is not to say that the disease is not still having a devastating economic impact on the industry. But the previous USDA
policy of erraticthey essentially ended the goal of eradication, and
it became a suppression and treatment program. Because the
eradication program involved determining that canker was present,
drawing a radius around that infected tree, and destroying everything inside that radius. It was extremely costly to the State of
Florida and to the Congress, who was funding that program.
So the eradication program ended after those storms blew the
disease in so many places. It would not have made sense to con-
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tinue the eradication program. That is not to say that, as a disease,
it is not worthy of research into how to have better varieties to deal
with it and all those other things. But it is certainlythe eradication effort ended, and that was a USDA determination.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. But, again, though, as I understand it, and
I just want to be clear, the $1.2 million for 2009 is for research.
Mr. PUTNAM. It is for research.
Ms. DELAURO. It is for research on citrus canker. And the $4 million is additional research in this area that you are talking about,
not eradication, but to look at how we try to deal with varieties or
how we try to deal with it domestically. But it is for both; it is for
canker and for greening research.
Mr. PUTNAM. It is for both.
Ms. DELAURO. You know, just for the clarity of it, in having to
explain what we are doing.
Mr. PUTNAM. Yes, maam.
Ms. DELAURO. There was a question about the research. In any
way, are we doing any partnering with Asia, anywhere else that is
dealing with this, in terms of the resistance to this?
Mr. PUTNAM. Yes. In fact, the example I gave was where, you
know, a grad student and a professor from the University of Florida had traveled to Vietnam because they had heard about these
villages that were living with greening on the side of a mountain
in the middle of nowhere. So I am actually pretty impressed at the
cooperation that is out there. And I am very impressed that they
have brought in an organization with the stature of National Academy to help them direct their research funds.
And the industry has also hosted two global scientific research
summits in Florida to compare best practices and the status of research and all those kinds of things. And so there really is a cooperative effort between ARS, the extension research agencies in the
State of Florida and California, as well as Texas.
Ms. DELAURO. My next question was going to be about the institution. So it is Florida, Texas, and California
Mr. PUTNAM. Primarily.
Ms. DELAURO [continuing]. Primarily where the research is being
done.
Mr. PUTNAM. Right.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, thank you very, very much. I dont have any
further questions.
Tom, anything?
Mr. LATHAM. Are there any other types of trees, ornamental or
anything, that have seen any signs of this? Or do you know?
Mr. PUTNAM. Not of the greening, but you raise the ornamental
aspect. Unfortunately, there are dozens or hundredsat least dozens of ornamentals that the psyllid loves. So every landscaped
home in the State of Florida probably has one or two different
bushes in there that this psyllid loves, which accelerates its spread,
you know, particularly in areas where you have commercial production up against an urban interface.
And so the ornamentals piece contributes to the spread of the
vector, not to the spread of disease.
Mr. LATHAM. Okay. Thank you.
Mr. PUTNAM. Good luck with all that, Madam Chairman.
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Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much.

I have to say this, and I guess maybe you have the same kind
of frustration that I am experiencing. This is 4 years, I mean, it
is $160 million, not chump change, you know, I mean, maybe in
this institution it is, but it is not, in terms of being able to deal
with the research that can get us to how we try to affect this in
some way. And it is a little troubling that we are not moving more
quickly.
Mr. PUTNAM. Well, you know, we see this in everything we grow
and raise in the United States. And the rate of new diseases and
new introductions of pests and diseases is expanding exponentially
as the world gets smaller. And Americans diets are changing. We
want more produce from Latin America and more spices from Asia.
And we are just getting a more diverse palate, and food is becoming globalized.
And APHIS just cant keep up. Either because of funding or because it is not a priority or whatever, Homeland Security is not
getting it done. And so, you know, it is not as sexy to seize a pink
hibiscus mealybug or an African heart-water tick until 21 polo
ponies die. But it is not as sexy as getting a bale of marijuana or
a human trafficker or a cache of weapons. And, long term, we have
to lift the profile of protecting our food supply as food trade becomes more rapid and more broad.
And, you know, anybody that wants to do trade with the United
States, the first export they are going to have is food. I mean, agricultural trade is going to be their entry into our market. And so
this is going to be a problem whether it is, you know, impacting
wheat or corn or swine, impacting avocados, which I know we have
a request to you on that; we just decided to bring you the big one.
I mean, it is endemic. And we dont have the robust food science
infrastructure to deal with it.
Ms. DELAURO. I thank you for that comment. It is an important
comment.
Mr. PUTNAM. I will get off my soapbox.
Ms. DELAURO. No, no. I think this committee has been for a very
long time, both sides of the aisle, very, very concerned about the
issue of food safety. And it has not become part of the national discourse. It only becomes part of the national discourse when nine
people die of contamination and hundreds and thousands, you
know, through food-borne illness are hospitalized. So it is about
prevention.
Thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Mr. PUTNAM. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. I think we have no more witnesses. The hearing
is concluded.
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WEDNESDAY, MAY 13, 2009.

SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE
WITNESSES
HON. THOMAS VILSACK, SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE
JOE GLAUBER, CHIEF ECONOMIST
W. SCOTT STEELE, BUDGET OFFICER
CHAIRWOMAN DELAUROS OPENING REMARKS

Ms. DELAURO. Hearing is called to order. My apologies for being
late. Good afternoon.
Let me welcome everyone, and particularly Secretary Vilsack
who comes before this subcommittee today for his second time. I
want to say thank you to Mr. Glauber for being here and for Mr.
Steele as well.
I am pleased to welcome my colleagues and ranking member, Mr.
Kingston, as we begin the hearings on the fiscal year 2010 agricultural appropriations bill. Let me just say to you, Mr. Secretary, this
is the second time we have had the opportunity to visit today. I
want to thank you for the earlier session we had with Secretary
Sebelius as well and the Food Safety Working Group, really beginning its efforts in the first public session. In any case, I am sure
you have been working at this. I was pleased to be there, pleased
to hear your comments and Secretary Sebelius on how we should
move forward on food safety.
We are glad to have as you a partner on the critical issues that
face this subcommittee, and I look forward to working with you
closely in the months ahead. And I know you agree that our work
is ultimately about peoples everyday lives, consumers who want
safe food, farmers who rely on fair functioning markets, children
who need healthy food to meet their full potential, and rural communities that need new opportunities to thrive.
I have said before that the issues that we confront in this subcommittee and with the Department of Agriculture speak to the
core responsibilities of the Federal Government. And I am encouraged by the commitment you and the Obama administration have
expressed in meeting these obligations, from improving our food
safety system to expanding broadband service to rural areas, from
conservation to strengthening child nutrition programs.
With the economic recovery package that we passed this winter,
we have already begun to make those investments. I am proud of
the resources that we secured, $28 billion for the USDA, including
almost $20 billion to increase nutrition assistance. This has meant
an additional $80 a month for a family of four, real tangible relief
for families who are in need. Also, $150 million for The Emergency
Food Assistance Program and funding for floodplain easements, direct farm operating loans, and single family housing loans. In other
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words, real relief and real jobs on the ground for some of our most
vulnerable communities.
We have worked hard to make these funds available, and Mr.
Secretary, I know that you are working hard to make sure they
reach those who would benefit the most.
Now, I believe we have an opportunity to build on that investment and move from recovery to long-term growth, and I applaud
Mr. Secretary for putting us in a strong place to do just that with
this years fiscal year 2010 budget.
Total discretionary spending proposed in the budget for USDA
would be $20.4 billion, a 10 percent increase above 2009, indeed,
a significant increase. Of course, this is just a first step. You will
recall when you came before the committee in March, we discussed
the need for serious and long-term reform at the Department. The
recovery package and now this budget represent a powerful down
payment on that process. We cannot let up at any point along the
way, and we must remain vigilant and committed to bringing the
change the department needs.
With that in the mind, let me raise a few issues that I imagine
you will discuss in your statement, and I may ask you to elaborate
on when we get to questions. For example, I want to highlight the
Departments proposed funding for FSIS, targeting funding to improve the food safety public health infrastructure to improve the
agencys ability to conduct food safety assessments, much of this in
response to the recommendations in the Inspector General report
on risk-based inspections.
I also want to applaud the budget request for Rural Development
programs. For years, the previous administration made grand
claims in this area, but failed to put its money where its mouth
was. The 2009 Bush budget had requested the elimination of many
direct loan and grant programs in the Rural Development mission
area. I am glad that this budget request does not carry most of
those budgetary cuts. I am sure my colleagues on the subcommittee
feel the same way, and it shows a new commitment to rural development.
I am also happy about the commitment we have made to conservation through the recovery package, already bringing funds to
our communities for the rehabilitation of watersheds and flood prevention projects. For example, I must say that, yes, I am concerned
about some apparent inconsistencies with respect to conservation
within the budget, and while you highlight USDAs work through
the Recovery Act to improve water quality through the watershed
and flood prevention operations program, you then note later in
your testimony that you eliminate the very same program in your
2010 request.
More troubling is how the budget treats the Farm Bill conservation programs. The budget proposes very heavy cuts, in my view,
to popular and effective programs, such as the Wetlands Reserve
Program, Wildlife Habitat and Incentives Program, the Farm and
Ranch Lands Protection Program, and I hope that we have a
chance to discuss the reasoning behind those kinds of decisions in
the budget.
Also, as you know, this committee has a long history of working
to expand broadband access to rural communities. It is also about
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bringing good jobs to rural America so that its residents do not
have to leave their communities to find work. I look forward to discussing the implementation of the Recovery Act funding that we
provided.
I want to thank you again for joining us, Secretary Vilsack. I
look forward to asking you about these and other efforts within the
Department. Ultimately, our appropriations reflect our priorities as
a Nation. We have big goals, and it is the details, it is the budget
and the basics that we are discussing here today that get us there,
and we have a responsibility and I know you share that responsibility to get it right.
And with that, let me recognize our ranking member, Mr. Kingston, for any opening remarks that he may have.
MR. KINGSTONS OPENING REMARKS

Mr. KINGSTON. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Mr. Secretary,
welcome back to the committee. We certainly appreciate your office
being so accessible.
I have concerns about this budget, and basically it is about a 20
percent increase, and during a time when we are asking American
households to cut back and they have lost so much of their own
personal savings during this bad economy but we are asking them
to increase Ags funding about 20 percent.
And yet there are some cuts in there, and I would like to work
with you on these cuts, but as you know, we have gone this route
before on so many of these things and never done it successfully.
Elimination of RC&D. The Chair just mentioned the previous administrations lack of commitment to rural development. Well,
RC&D is a pretty big commitment to the rural areas. It is fairly
important to them. Eliminating that, I am open to it actually, to
discussion of it, but I dont see how we get there. It has been talked
about before and it has never happened.
The Administration eliminates congressional earmarks, and I can
understand that the administration would prefer its own earmarks
to the legislative branch. Members of this committee should know
that the WIC funding is now about 40 percent of the discretionary
limit, which the Chair had said is about $20.4 billion, $7.7 is WIC.
WIC budget just grows every year, and for Members who are concerned about congressional directed spending, we need to be thinking in terms of that. As sensitive as it is to bring anything up
about WIC, I think it is something we should be talking about.
The farm limitation amendment, savings from that, the Senate
has pretty squarely dealt with that right now and rejected that
concept on a bipartisan basis.
This House has dealt with crop insurance commission issues before. I am not sure that that is going to last.
But I guess what I want to when we get into Q&A, what I want
to hear from you is how committed is the Administration to these
proposals. Is it real or is it just the kind of the Washington TwoStep that we do every year along with veterinarian fees and inspection fees?
Then, part of the increase is things, as you know, the stimulus
program increased broadband tremendously, I think from $400 million to almost $2.7 billion I think if my numbers are right. Yet, this
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still has a broadband increase. You know, they just won the lottery.
They didnt just get a 10 percent bump in the stimulus. They more
than quadrupled their budget. I am not sure what the numbers
are, way past that, and so now we are going to increase them
again. That would seem to me like a logical place maybe not to increase.
So there are some issues that I am looking forward to this testimony and have great respect for you and your ability, but I want
to talk about how do we square this away with realities that are
out there.
So thanks for coming back and I yield back.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, Mr. Kingston. Mr. Secretary, if you would proceed with testimony, and the full testimony
will be in the record and we will ask you to summarize.
STATEMENT
OF
SECRETARY VILSACK
Secretary VILSACK. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair and distinguished members of the subcommittee,
it is a pleasure to come back before you today to discuss the details
of the Presidents 2010 budget request for the Department of Agriculture. As the Chair indicated, I am joined today by Scott Steele,
our budget officer, and by Joe Glauber, our chief economist.
In my testimony before this subcommittee in March, I outlined
the Presidents goals for the Department and the challenges and
opportunities we face in revitalizing rural America and the economy at this crucial time.
Over the first 100 days of this administration, USDA has set out
a new course to promote a safe, sustainable, sufficient, and nutritious food supply, to ensure that America leads the global fight
against climate change, and revitalize rural communities by expanding economic opportunity.
We have moved quickly to respond to these difficult economic
times by creating jobs, increasing food aid to those in need, and revitalizing rural communities. We have also made civil rights a top
priority, with definitive action to improve the Departments record
and move the USDA to a model employer and premier service provider.
Before I delve into the specifics of the 2010 budget, I would like
to provide a brief update on our efforts to implement the Recovery
Act.
RECOVERY ACT IMPLEMENTATION
The USDA has taken decisive action to implement provisions of

the Recovery Act. We immediately took measures to make available
almost $20 billion or approximately 70 percent of the total funding
received under the Act for increasing the monthly benefits of the
supplemental nutrition assistance program. We have also allocated
$125 million for emergency food assistance.
To assist farmers struggling with tight credit markets, we obligated over 99 percent of the $173 million in the Recovery Act funding for direct farm operating loans, which has provided assistance
to 2,636 farmers, of which approximately half were beginning farmers, and 23 percent were socially disadvantaged farmers.
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In the area of the environment, in the natural resource conservation, we announced a national sign-up for $145 million in floodplain easements, which will restore and protect an estimated
60,000 acres of flood-prone land. In addition, $45 million has been
provided for the rehabilitation of watersheds, and $85 million for
53 flood prevention projects in 21 States.
Rural communities are also benefiting from our actions. We have
made available more than $600 million in funding to provide safe
drinking water and improve wastewater treatment systems for
rural towns in 34 States. We have begun the implementation of the
Acts broadband provisions in concert with the U.S. Department of
Commerce and are determining the best targeted utilization of the
$2.5 billion provided for expanding rural broadband into communities that would otherwise not have access.
The USDA has also obligated a loan level of $3.4 billion in guaranteed and direct single family housing loans for over 28,800 loans.
I want to assure this subcommittee that the Subcabinet, the agencies and Department will be held accountable for not just swift implementation but also ensure the funds are being used effectively
and efficiently.
PRESIDENTS 2010 BUDGET
The Presidents 2010 budget, released on May 7, 2009, proposes

over $20.3 billion for discretionary programs under the jurisdiction
of this subcommittee, an increase of nearly $2 billion over the 2009
levels provided in the Omnibus Appropriations Act. This increase
is primarily associated with the Special Supplemental Nutrition
Program for Women, Infants and Children, international food assistance, rural development, and other priority programs.
At this time, I would like to briefly point out how this budget
supports our highest priority programs.
NUTRITION PROGRAMS
The budget fully supports nutrition assistance programs, including full funding for the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program
for Women, Infants and Children, to serve all of the estimated
monthly average of 9.8 million participants. In addition, the Administration is proposing an increase of $10 billion over 10 years
for reauthorization of the Child Nutrition Programs. These increases will be used to improve access to nutritious meals, to encourage children to make healthy food choices and to enhance services for participants by improving program performance and integrity.
FOOD SAFETY
In support of the Presidents commitment to modernize the food

system, the budget requests over $1 billion for the Food Safety and
Inspection Service. This is the full amount necessary to meet the
demand for meat, poultry and egg products inspection, as well as
providing an increased investment in food safety assessments, and
technology needed to enhance our ability to identify, respond to and
reduce food safety risks.
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TRADE
Expanding our access to world markets and developing long-term

trade relationships continue to be vital components of our strategy
to improve the vitality of the farm sector and quality of life in rural
areas. Due to the global credit crisis, we have seen significant increases in demand for export credit guarantees provided through
the GSM102 program. To help meet this demand, the budget provides a program level of $5.5 billion, the maximum authorized by
the 2008 farm bill for CCC export credit guarantees for 2010.
To encourage further export expansion for our products, we need
to work hard, both in Washington and in our offices overseas, to
ensure continued access to overseas markets. I appreciate the subcommittees support in providing additional resources in 2009 for
this activity, and our 2010 budget builds on this foundation with
a $16.4 million in additional funds to maintain the Foreign Agricultural Services overseas presence and upgrade their information
technology infrastructure.
INTERNATIONAL FOOD ASSISTANCE
The 2010 budget also supports the administrations commitment

to renewing U.S. leadership and promoting global development and
fostering world food security by doubling the level of discretionary
funding for the McGovern-Dole International Food for Education
and Child Nutrition Program. The budget also supports a program
level of $1.7 billion for P.L. 480 Title II donations which will reduce
our reliance on the need for future emergency supplemental funding.
ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES MARKETS
The budget reflects a new course the administration has set to

ensure that America leads the global fight against climate change
and to revitalize rural communities by expanding economic opportunity. To this end, the budget includes an increase of $15.8 million
to develop markets that reward producers for sequestering carbon
and limiting greenhouse gas emissions.
RENEWABLE ENERGY
The budget promotes Americas rural leadership in developing renewable energy by supporting over $780 million in investments, a
net increase of $275 million over 2009. Notably, our discretionary
request supports $280 million in guaranteed loans and grants for
the Rural Energy for America Program, or REAP.
RURAL DEVELOPMENT
For rural development, the 2010 budget includes funding to support over $21 billion for loans, loan guarantees, and grants for ongoing discretionary programs, an increase of $825 million over
2009. This includes $1.3 billion in loans and grants to increase
broadband capacity and to improve telecommunication service.
To spur the development of small business and value-added agriculture in rural America, increased funding is sought to support
$63 million in loans under the Rural Microentrepreneurial Assistance Program and $8 million for Value-Added Producer Grants.
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The budget also provides funding necessary to finance homeownership opportunities for nearly 59,000 rural residents and fully
supports the administrations commitment to protect low-income
tenants participating in the Rental Assistance Program, many of
whom are elderly, in about 248,000 multifamily housing units.
AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION
Consistent with President Obamas desire to invest in the full diversity of agricultural production, the budget requests an additional $6 million for assisting the organic sector, establishing marketing agreements that will involve quality factors affecting food
safety for leafy greens or other fruits and vegetables, and supporting independent livestock producers.
RESEARCH
For research, the budget also includes funding to support our

highest priorities. This includes a $70 million increase for competitive research grants that will enhance rural research and extension
programs and provide incentives for teachers to pursue professional
development.
The budget also requests an additional $10.8 million to develop
tools and strategies for mitigating and adapting to climate change.
We are requesting an additional $11 million to conduct research
on new varieties of bioenergy feedstocks, as well as developing
technologies that will result in sustainable, efficient and economic
production practices for biofuels.
In order to promote the healthier eating habits and lifestyles, the
budget also includes an increase of $13 million to determine the
barriers to individuals in following healthy eating and physical activity recommendations and to develop new, healthier foods.
FARM SAFETY NET
In my last appearance before the subcommittee, we discussed the

administrations proposal to improve fiscal responsibility, while
supporting a robust safety net for producers that provides protection for market disruptions, weather disasters, pests and disease
that threaten the viability of American agriculture.
I want to reassure you that the Presidents budget does indeed
maintain the three-legged stool of farm payments, crop insurance,
and disaster assistance. However, in keeping with the Presidents
pledge to target farm payments to those who need them the most,
the budget proposes a hard cap on all program payments of
$250,000 and to reduce crop insurance subsidies to producers and
companies in the delivery of crop insurance.
While the budget includes a proposal to phase out direct payments to the largest producers, the Department is prepared to
work with Congress and stakeholders as these proposals are considered.
For 2010 the budget requests an increase of $67.3 million to continue the activities necessary to modernize the information technology we rely on to deliver farm program benefits. I certainly appreciate the subcommittees interest in this effort and the $50 million provided in the Recovery Act which is allowing us to make
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progress in this area. Although this combined level of funding will
allow us to continue to make progress, additional funding will be
required in subsequent years to complete the stabilization and
modernization efforts.
The 2010 budget fully supports partnering with landowners to
conserve land, protect wetlands, and improve wildlife habitat
through vital Farm Bill conservation programs. For the 2010 budget, the budget includes nearly $4.7 billion in mandatory funding for
conservation programs authorized in the 2008 Farm Bill. It also includes $907 million in discretionary funding for ongoing conservation work that provides high quality technical assistance to farmers
and ranchers and addresses the most serious natural resource concerns.
CIVIL RIGHTS
Ensuring equitable treatment of all our employees and clients is

a top priority for me. By holding each USDA employee accountable
for their actions and through the implementation of my recently
announced civil rights plan, we are striving to make the Department a model agency for respecting civil rights. In support of these
efforts, the 2010 budget includes funding to address program and
employment complaints of discrimination and to increase the participation of small, beginning and socially disadvantaged producers
in USDA programs.
Another key initiative is the expansion of outreach to unserved
and underserved constituents. The 2010 budget includes funding to
support the establishment of the Office of Advocacy and Outreach
authorized in the 2008 Farm Bill. It also provides funding necessary to support enhanced government-to-government relations
and improve tribal consultation activities.
We are seeking an increase of $45.8 million to ensure that USDA
can reliably deliver its broad portfolio of programs in a secure IT
environment. Instituting a department-wide cyber security initiative will eliminate critical vulnerabilities that threaten the integrity of the USDA network and the security and privacy of departmental systems and information.
We share the Presidents vision of a strong economy. Therefore,
like other agencies, we have begun making difficult but important
budget decisions which include eliminating wasteful and inefficient
spending. The 2010 budget reflects the elimination of earmarks
and funding for programs that are not as high a priority as others
I have mentioned or to provide services that can be supported by
other means. This includes billions of dollars in mandatory savings
and discretionary savings for the termination of the Resource Conservation and Development program, Watershed and Flood Prevention Operations program, EZ/EC grants program, the High Energy
Cost Grants, and grants for public broadcasting digital conversion.
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We have begun the process of making tough decisions about

where our priorities lie and have made some tough choices about
where to spend our resources. These choices reflect a new direction
we are moving in and provide the foundation and diverse opportunities for farmers and ranchers in rural America to thrive.
Madam Chair, that concludes my statement. I will be glad to answer questions.
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357
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. It would appear that we have started the process for three votes. So we will
start to move to questions, and we will strictly adhere to 5 minutes, and that includes myself so we can get this hearing off the
ground.
WIC
Let me just address the WIC program. The budget requests $917
million for the WIC program. It is a program as you state, $7.8 billion. $625 million is requested to support an average monthly participation of approximately 9.8 million women, infants and children.
The question that I have is about what appears to be a lack of
justification included in the budget for the proposed increase of
$162 million for WIC reauthorization program improvements. The
budget says the administration will use these funds to implement
program improvements which could include expanding types of
education and counseling services, developing additional State infrastructure, enhancing program efficiency.
It is a large increase with little justification. Can you give us a
concrete plan of what program improvements you are proposing
with this $162 million increase?
Let me just deal with a follow up on the contingency fund so you
can answer both together. There is a request for $100 million for
WIC contingency. There is already an estimated $650 million in
the WIC contingency fund for fiscal year 2010 from carryover provided in the Recovery Act. The contingency fund has historically
been funded at $125 to $150 million each fiscal year. Why do you
think $750 million is needed in the contingency fund for 2010?
Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chair, with reference to the additional resources for WIC on program improvements, what we are
interested in doing is that we expand our efforts to educate expectant moms and young moms on the breastfeeding opportunities and
other nutritional opportunities that they must know about in order
to be able to start their childrens lives in a nutritious and effective
way. So first and foremost, this is about expanding educational opportunities and making sure that nutrition is part of the process
of making sure that as people sign up for WIC that they are well
aware of the various programs that are available and the nutritional opportunities that are available.
I can also suggest to you that we are working with States to
make sure that we continue to identify those who qualify for the
program. We are looking at creative and innovative ways to get the
message out. We are partnering with local farmers markets, for example, to make sure that folks are at the local farmers markets,
encouraging people to sign up, developing discount opportunities
and ways in which we can encourage fresh fruits and vegetables to
be part of the steady diets of women, infants and children. So this
is education, expanded access, and greater emphasis on nutrition.
WIC CONTINGENCY FUND
As it relates to the contingeny fund, I think what we are attempting to do is to make sure that we dont do what we have done
in the past, which is to come back repeatedly when the economy
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we expect and anticipate the economy to improve at some point in
time, but it is fairly clear that most projections have unemployment rising. If unemployment rises, there is always a significant
need for a number of services, including this one. We just want to
simply be in a position where we are not coming back to Congress
repeatedly asking for more resources when we have underestimated the number of people who are in need of assistance now.
Ms. DELAURO. Just a quick follow-up on that. The highest contingency level previously needed to keep the WIC program running
was about $387 million. That was 2008. Do you think the economic
situation in 2010 is going to be twice as bad as 2008?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I think there are a number of factors.
We obviously are hoping that by the end of this year, we see a significant improvement in the economy. Employment may not necessarily completely parallel that growth and that recovery, and so
there may be continued need in 2010. We also, I think, have to realize that we are changing the makeup of the food packages for
WIC, and we are changing the combinations of what we are essentially providing.
There may be impacts and effects that we have not totally calculated or, which is what Joe has given me a note here, food price
volatility. That is alwaysso it is a combination of not knowing
precisely when the recovered economy will reflect in ordinary peoples lives, combined with food costs, that could create problems
where we are coming back to you repeatedly for assistance and
help. We are trying to do as best we can estimating what our needs
are.
Ms. DELAURO. I would ask you just to keep in touch with us on
this $162 million increase and what this outreachthis expanded
access in education is about. So I think the subcommittee would be
interested in those efforts.
With that, Mr. Kingston.
2010 PROPOSED BUDGET CUTS
Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Secretary, I wanted to try to find out where

the administration is on these proposed cuts. I am interested in
them. Anything to reduce this budget I think is important. But I
wanted to find out how many of them are real and how many of
them are just the annual proposals.
For example, we have mandatory user fees for Food Safety and
Inspection Service and APHIS and the grain inspection as well,
and so what I would like you to do is maybe on a scale of one to
10 tell me what the intensity level is of the administration in terms
of using political capital and fighting it.
The reason I say that is the President made a big deal about,
send me a bill with earmarks, then I am going to reject it, and then
we sent him an Omnibus Bill that had lots of earmarks and he
signed it and did something real unusual for this administration;
they blamed it on George Bush. So not to inject partisan politics
here.
But here is my question to you. Okay. Cotton storage, got a lot
of bipartisan support on that. Like on a scale of one to 10, is this
a 10 in intensity?
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Secretary VILSACK. Congressman, here is why this was proposed
and so that you can tell from our response that this is a serious
proposal. This has beenthe only other product that has this kind
of support is peanuts, and the peanut support is very contained
and very limited, and only under limited circumstances is it triggered.
So this essentially creates the potential for distorting the market
because you may end up having cotton stored far longer than it
would otherwise be stored because essentially the government is
paying for it. So, as we look at this program, it does provide a
unique benefit to one commodity, and so we felt that it was appropriate and necessary to put this on the table.
Obviously, we recognize your role in this. We appreciate you are
not just going to simply pass the Presidents budget. You are going
to examine it. You are going to look at it. You are going put your
stamp on it. We want to work with you. But there is a reason behind this proposal, and I think it is a legitimate one.
Mr. KINGSTON. The sugar program, for example, is sort of always
ignored, and a lot of that comes through Commerce because there
is a tariff. But Americans pay a higher price per pound for sugar
because of a USDA program. Even though it doesntthere is not
a tax mechanism directly, it does cost them more, so I want to say
cotton is the only commodity and one of the few commodities
Secretary VILSACK. I want to make sure I am clear about this.
I am not suggesting that there arentI am saying for this kind
of storage situation, cotton and peanuts are unique.
Mr. KINGSTON. All right. Payment limitation, lot of debate, Senate kind of rejected that. Do you think that is going to survive?
Secretary VILSACK. We are willing to work with Congress on this.
I think, again, when we looked at in an effort to try to be cognizant
of deficits and the concern that you all legitimately have about deficits, we looked at the fact that 3 percent of Americas farmers were
at the threshold that we proposed. There has been a lot of conversation about whether or not it ought to be adjusted in terms of
adjusted gross income, as opposed to gross sales. We are certainly
happy to look at that. We are also certainly happy to look at the
hard cap the President did campaign on of $250,000 by essentially
limiting the loan programs to $145,000. That is a per entity cap.
So that does provide a strong part of the safety net.
In addition to that, you have got the new disaster programs that
will be implemented. In addition to that, you have crop insurance,
which is expanded now to 350 different products and substantial
subsidies involved with that.
So we see a strong safety net, and we simply ask the question
whether or not there are ways in which that safety net can still do
its job and at the same time be fiscally responsible.
Mr. KINGSTON. What about RC&D, elimination of that? That actually had been proposed by the Bush administration and did not
go very far.
Secretary VILSACK. These are very hardworking folks around the
country that are providing a service and have been doing that since
the late 1960s. When it was first established, the idea was that
this would be a transition program eventually transitioning to local
and State financing. The principal beneficiaries of this program
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now are, in fact, local economic development efforts and State economic development efforts. We think there are ways for State and
local economic development resources to be used to continue this
important responsibility perhaps truer to the initial intent of the
program. That is why it has been proposed, and again, I think
there is a legitimate reason for at least bringing this before you.
Mr. KINGSTON. Thank you. In my 15 seconds I have left, the earmark elimination, how do you think that is going to fare, just
handicapping it? And I will say this. I believe that Congress has
reformed earmarks substantially in the last 2 years.
Secretary VILSACK. Let me respond this way. We have significant
research needs in this country, and what I think is needed is perhaps a better dialogue and better level of communication between
an administration and a Congress, not necessarily this administration and this Congress, but just generally speaking, because when
each body sets their own separate priorities, it creates conflict.
And I think what the Presidents trying to suggest is a process
by which we work together and communicate together and establish joint priorities which I think at the end of the day, reduces
conflict and perhaps provides better utilization of our resources.
Mr. KINGSTON. I know I am over time. I am looking forward to
working with you on this. I appreciate it.
Ms. DELAURO. I am going to call the recess for the committee.
We have three votes and ask people to get back here as quickly as
possible.
[Recess.]
Ms. DELAURO. The hearing will resume. Thank you. It got a little
longer than three votes, but thank you very much for your patience. Let me now recognize Mr. Alexander.
FOOD SAFETY INSPECTIONS
Mr. ALEXANDER. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Secretary,

good to see you. My question is a little earlier in your presentation
you said something about an increased amount of money for food
inspection. Lets us talk about that a little bit. I signed a letter
with others not too long ago relating to the subject of catfish or fish
imported. What assurances do we have when you say food inspection, catfish or other fish, coming from other countries. How well
do we inspect those facilities, and do we inspect all of them?
Secretary VILSACK. I wasnt sure whether you were finished. We
are in the process as you know of making a determination as to
precisely what the definition of catfish will be. For purposes of inspection, that has not yet been finalized and we understand and
appreciate that there is some interest in that definition how broad
or narrow it is. I think our responsibility is to ensure American
consumers that the food that they consume is safe. And so part of
that means that you have to have adequate people and adequate
numbers of people to do the job adequately. It also means, as the
chairwoman discussed briefly earlier, a review which is undertaken
right now at the direction of the President and a food safety working group where the Department of Health and Human Services
and USDA are trying to improve food inspections generally in our
safety system generally.
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We are not pleased, and I suspect you arent either with the
number of people that have food-borne illness incidences each year,
the number of those who are hospitalized and the number who die.
So how do we know whether we are doing a good job? I suppose
one way to measure it would be if we saw an increase or a decrease
in those numbers that would suggest that we either had more work
to do or we were on the right track.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Well, when we say inspection, do we actually
send people out to locations where these fish might be raised in the
fish ponds, so to speak?
Secretary VILSACK. The law requires inspection not only to cover
the slaughter and processing of the catfish but also to take into account the conditions under which the catfish are raised and the
conditions in which they are transported to a processing establishment. So this is a relatively broad authority. It is broader than we
have for other products that are under our jurisdiction. So we are
in the process of working through how that is going to be done.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Okay, sir. Thank you, Madam.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you, Mr. Alexander. Mrs. Emerson.
Mrs. EMERSON. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I would like to
just momentarily refer back to the remarks when you and the Secretary were discussing the WIC program and point out to the two
of you that in one of my counties, Wayne County, Missouri, our
health department, our public health department that actually
works with our WIC recipients in that county, has done a cooperative program with the University of Missouri extension to teach all
of our WIC recipients how to do their own garden, grow their own
garden, preserve, can, freeze vegetables and other smaller fruits so
that they are able to supplement their WIC diet. And it has turned
out to be just a remarkable and a very positive thing. Because not
only are they learning a new skill, but they are also able to then
have good wholesome vegetables. And it is just something that I
think we should talk about promoting beyond that. Out of my 28
counties it is the only county that does this, but I talk about it everywhere because I just think it is a great idea.
Ms. DELAURO. It is a great model and we ought to talk some
more about it.
Mrs. EMERSON. And there is no taxpayer money involved, which
is even better. But it is something that is really important. And the
skills that our extension people bring to this service for WIC recipients is remarkable. So anyway, thanks. I just wanted to mention
that while it was in my mind.
NATIONAL ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM
Secretary Vilsack, last year when your predecessor was here we

asked him some very pointed questions regarding cooperative
agreements and the animal identification program. And the data
that was provided by the Department, it was interesting. And just,
for example, in Missouri, it showed that USDA had spent roughly
$120 for each premise enrolled in the program, whereas in Montana, it was $1,200 per premise. And the reason I am asking this
issue, or raising it is while these numbers are troubling, I dont
think they should be at all that surprising. And I think you probably heard when you were in my district yesterday there does re-
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main a significant concern, and even a fear among many livestock
producers as to what type of animal identification system Washington might produce.
And obviously, it is hard to blame our producers for their hesitancy in enrolling their premises. I think all of us would probably
be pretty hesitant to sign up for a government program when we
dont know what the government program is going to look like. And
soand even when FSA rolls out a new program, or when we are
implementing the new Farm Bill, we dont really enroll until we
have the program. We have the regulations, our county directors
understand how it works. But we are asking producers with the
NAIS to sign up kind of on a wing and a prayer if you will. So I
am thrilled that you are holding listening sessions. And I hope that
you will take to heart what you are hearing and the fear, and certainly the uncertainty that many producers in Missouri have.
But I know that you all have requested $14.6 million for the
NAIS program this year which is level funding. Will you describe
to us what this funding will be used for and specifically if it will
be used to continue providing funds for our state agriculture departments to drive premises enrollment?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, thank you for your question, and it was
a very enlightening listening session that I had in the State of Colorado this week which was the second of a number of listening sessions that we are going to undertake. And it does indeed point out
the complexity of this particular program. I think that there is a
good level of dissatisfaction with the program at very many levels;
either a lack of understanding as to what the purpose and intent
is, the fact that there are distinctions between types of livestock in
terms of a compliance, the distinctions that sometimes can take
place within certain types of livestock in terms of do you graze on
public land, do you graze on private land.
And so there is a need for a detailed understanding of the complexities. What we are proposing here is for the current budget
year relatively status quo because we are in the process of trying
to determine what, if any, changes need to take place so that we
have greater compliance with the system. I will tell you that I dont
know the answer to that yet and would not know it because I
havent completed the listening sessions but would say this. My
concerns are two-fold. First and foremost is animal health. We
want to make sure that whatever system we set up is focused on
animal health. And secondly, we want to make sure that we maintain the integrity of the market.
I think we have seen most recently with a number of products
and the H1N1 that markets can be devastated and impacted by
problems. So what I am looking at is making sure that we have got
a system that preserves as best we can animal health and make
sure that we preserve the integrity of the market. And how that
system is going to look, I will know more after I finish the listening
sessions. But it has been very interesting, I have learned a lot and
I think we will look for creative and innovative ways to improve
this program.
Mrs. EMERSON. I appreciate that because a lot of times people
undertake listening tours having already made up their mind, and
I can tell that you havent, so I appreciate that very much.
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RESEARCH EARMARKS FUNDING CUTS
Mr. BISHOP. Thank you very much. And again, welcome, Mr. Secretary. I am delighted that you are back with us. And we do have
a budget that we can talk about this time. I have a number of concerns and issues with respect to the budget for 2010. Particularly
relative to the Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service funding cuts. I am sort of disappointed in the approach
and the methodology which has been used in really proposing the
Draconian reductions in some programs that are really vital to my
district and to others here on the panel that Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service reduction is about 22 percent for all of the programs.
The special research grants have been effectively eliminated for
most of the ongoing research activities as well as the proposed research projects in my area, including projects for cotton insect research, blueberry production enhancement, water use and water
quality and a national peanut laboratorys activities with regard to
water research efficiency. Can you explain why this program has
taken such a tremendous hit? And the second part of my question
has to do with funding for the 1890 colleges, universities and
Tuskegee University which remains flat at $46 million, yet the
funding for the other higher education programs increases by a
total of 70 percent to $80 million.
While the disparity in the two given the disparity in funding that
already exists and has existed historically between the 1890s and
the other land grant universities, particularly over the last 8 years.
Secretary VILSACK. The answer to the question that you posed is
somewhat akin to what we earlier discussed as it relates to earmarks and the capacity and determination of what priorities are in
terms of research. The $168 million of reductions in the research
funding was essentially a reduction of earmarked funding replaced
by $139 million in increases in what we perceive to be priority research in additional pay. So the bottom line is a $29 million reduction. We are focusing additional resources in other areas of research that would explain why we are limiting this research to be
able to fund research on renewable fuels, climate change, some
rural revitalization, some education, some obesity prevention. This
is a way which we set out priorities.
Now, I will be the first to admit that we did this budget in a relatively short period of time, as I know you appreciate. And we just
yesterday, I believe, got the Under Secretary for Research confirmed by the Senate, and I really want to give that individual an
opportunity to look at all of the programs in a more extensive way,
which is one of the reasons why we dont have additional resources
for buildings and facilities.
Mr. BISHOP. Who was that individual?
Secretary VILSACK. Dr. Shah. Dr. Shah comes to us from the
Gates Foundation, he is a medical doctor, and I think you will find
him someone that you can work with and someone who understands the importance of research.
Mr. BISHOP. So the child nutrition and obesity research is increased, ongoing, reduced? It is my understanding that is reduced.
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Secretary VILSACK. It is increased. As it relates to the 1890 colleges and universities, my understanding, and I could be wrong
about this and would ask Scott, the $70 million that we are proposing as an increase is in a lot of different areas which would include potentially additional resources for minority serving institutions. So that $70 million has yet to be completely allocated.
Mr. BISHOP. I thought it was 70 percent. Was it $70 million?
Secretary VILSACK. $70 million. As you know, the Congress established the National Institute of Food and Agriculture that sort
of rolls all of these programs into a new institute for a new focus.
And we provided an additional $70 million designed to try to put
resources into those ruralinto a number of different areas, including grants for science educators, additional resources for the 1890
colleges and universities, as well as
Mr. BISHOP. My time is about up, so on the next round, I am
going to come back and ask you to talk about the Office of Civil
Rights and the small and disadvantaged farmer programs.
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Latham.
CONSERVATION PROGRAM CUTS
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you, Madam Chairman. And welcome. I always want to call you Governor, but it is Secretary. I guess I am
a little bit confused. I know there is a lot of talk about legislation
as far as climate change and environment. And I am very concerned about the effect that things like that will have on agriculture. And I look at the budget proposal. And in conservation
programs there is some pretty major cuts as well as the Wetlands
Reserve Program, a cut of $280 million, EQIP program $250 million cut, Ag Management Assistance $5 million, Wildlife Habitat
Incentives Program $43 million, Healthy Forest Reserves Program
$5 million, Farmland Protection Program $30 million, Watershed
Rehabilitation Programs $30 million, there is another $267 million
out of NRCS as far as direct appropriations. I just dont understand
the cuts and programs that are very beneficial as far as soil and
conservation, how we can justify that, and where the money is
going, I guess what I would ask?
Secretary VILSACK. I appreciate that question. And allow me an
opportunity to respond to your question and the concerns that the
Chair expressed as well. First of all, I think it is important to point
out that our budget does propose an increase in the total number
of acres that will be enrolled in various programs that would fall
within the rubric of conservation. Whether it is CRP, whether it is
EQIP, or the other programs that you mentioned. In the past in
2009, we anticipated 178.5 million acres in EQIP. Our budget
would propose increasing that to 195.3 million acres. In CRP, as
you know, we have got a slight decrease.
In all other conservation programs, we are going to see an increase from 41.3 million acres to 55.4 million acres. And you say
to yourself, well, how can you increase the acres and reduce the
money. Well, the reality is the monies that were being appropriated
were not always expended because of demand. For example, lets
take the wetlands program. We are proposing 155,000 acres in that
program. Well, we havent topped 150,000 acres for all of the years,
even though financing was provided for more than that.
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So essentially, what we are trying to do is we are trying to match
the budget with reality in the field and trying to match the budget
with the number of acres that we actually will see enrolled. And
I think hopefully you will find some solace in the fact that overall,
the number of acres enrolled will be 280 million acres total, and
we will spend $4.8 billion in compensation benefits and conservation benefits.
Mr. LATHAM. What is authorized level of acres in CRP?
Secretary VILSACK. It is 32 million acres.
Mr. LATHAM. And how do you get to 55?
Secretary VILSACK. No, no. The acreage for CRP is, on this chart
I am looking at, is 30.4. It is actually going to be closer to 32. We
actually just extended offers.
Mr. LATHAM. I thought you just said it was 55?
Secretary VILSACK. No. 55 is all the other programs. You have
all the other programs, you have got CRP and you have got EQIP.
A total of those three categories is 280 million acres, which is an
increase of about 36 million acres, additional acres.
Mr. LATHAM. And how do you do that again with less money?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, because it isnt that we have less
money, it is that we are going to be spendingyou have authorized
money but not all of it was spent because we couldnt get enough
interest in some of these programs. So what we are trying to do
is align the programs with the amount of money that actually will
be spent and the number of acres that we realistically think will
be enrolled. So we realistically think for the Wetlands Reserve Program, 155,000 acres would be a good goal since we havent topped
150,000 acres in all but one year in the last 5 years. So that is the
reason.
INDIRECT LAND USE
Mr. LATHAM. Okay. Good luck. One question. And I know the authorizing chairman brought up the issue last week I think in a
hearing with the EPA and charging indirect land use into the count
for ethanol production as far as carbon credits and all those things.
What is your position on that? And also I may also ask on ethanol
if you see the EPA changing their standard?
Secretary VILSACK. Congressman, again, thank you for that question. I think the most important announcement relative to indirect
land use was the fact that the EPA also simultaneously indicated
they were going to have a peer independent review of their formulation and calculation, which I think was very, very important and
something that we from USDA and others within the administration urged to make sure, because we are plowing new ground here
as you know, and we want to make sure that as these calculations
are formulated that we really are doing them correctly and properly and that we dont do them in a way that will, at the end of
the day, damage this industry irreparably. So that is a concern.
So the peer review I think is an appropriate step, and I appreciate EPA willing to do that. We also have advocated and encouraged EPA to take a look at the blend rate. And we are encouraged
by the action taken recently in asking for comments on raising the
rate to anywhere from 11 to 15 percent. And we are hopeful that
in a relatively short period of time, based on Washington stand-
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ards, that we see some positive steps from EPA in respect to that
blend rate. That is an important consideration. And we also appreciate the Presidents commitment in establishing the interagency
working group, that will allow us to look at ways in which we can
grow this market and support this market from farmer to gas tank
and beyond.
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Ms. DELAURO. Thank you. Mr. Hinchey.
FOOD SAFETY WORKING GROUP
Mr. HINCHEY. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Secretary, thank

you very much. I think thatwell, I know frankly, that this particular committee, especially under the leadership of this chairman,
has been focused on a number of things, including food safety. And
I think that that is something that the President is also focused on,
I am sure it is something that you are focused on. He established
the food safety working group initially. And I am wondering if you
could tell us what kind of progress is being made, what are the intentions, what ways in which that food safety working group is
going to move forward to try to bring about serious food safety in
the country?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, first of all, let me thank the Chair and
this committee for the work that you all have done in continuing
to press this issue. And I think the fact that there is legislation
pending on both the House and Senate side and it is bipartisan I
think is an important first step. And the President acknowledging
that establishes the working group and before the Secretary of
Health and Human Services was confirmed, we began a process of
staff working jointly through USDA and Department of Health and
Human Services.
I think it was an important signal that we were going to coordinate our efforts in an effort to try to establish principles. Today we
had our first listening consultation session with industry leaders,
congressional leaders, experts in this field asking for their input on
a number of principles. Let me briefly touch on the principles. I
think there is a growing belief and understanding that we need to
focus on prevention as sort of the core of whatever food safety system we establish, which means more research standards both at
the local level and also international standards that are followed.
We need to strengthen surveillance and risk analysis. That means
we have to focus on good data. And that is important in terms of
collecting data, analyzing it and then utilizing it.
Quality monitoring as a result of that data and constant and consistent surveillance. And expanded risk-based inspection enforcement procedure that provides for an array of potential enforcement
mechanisms that are consistently applied and that focuses on
pathogens. I mean, the reality is that sometimes the science has
been ahead of us and these pathogens, as the Chair indicated earlier today, are way ahead of us and we need to play some catchup.
And a rapid response to outbreaks and the facilitation of recovery
of whatever industry is negatively impacted by an outbreak, which
means quick ID, rapid response, reviewing for mistakes made,
making sure that we coordinate our response and that we are consistently and constantly communicating within departments.
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And then finally recognizing that resources are not unlimited we
want to make sure that those resources are adequate, but also targeted. And so I think what you are going to see is a set of recommendations to the President consistent with the legislation that
you all are considering that is centered on those principles.
FOOD SAFETY REGULATIONS
Mr. HINCHEY. Well, thanks very much. The issue of food safety
is becoming increasingly important across the country because of
the fact that it is being so destructive. The fact that food safety has
downslided so much that a great many people are dying as a result. Some of the States now are moving forward on trying to set
up regulations. Do you think that the USDA will be in a position
to set up a system of regulations across the States that will satisfy
States generally?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I think the first step in that process is
to make sure that we coordinate our efforts initially at the outset
with state and local communities. And I think that USDA is in a
particularly unique opportunity to do that because we are already
in so many of these communities in all States in a variety of ways
on the ground. And we actually have a relationship with a number
of States where we are essentially providing resources for inspection. So I think we have a good relationship. Obviously it can always be improved. And I hope with this new approach and this coordinated approach with Health and Human Services that it will
improve.
FACTORY FARMS
Mr. HINCHEY. We hope so too. And it sounds like it will be, and
that is a major step forward. I just want to ask you in the few seconds I have left, one specific question with regard to that particular
issue. It has to do with the animals that are raised in these large
farms, the factory farms of various kinds, how they are jammed up
close together and in very, very nasty circumstances. And part of
that is the results that occur with these animals and the huge
amount of disease that is flowing across that occurs out of that.
Now, do you think that there is a process now of advocating that
these factory farms reform the way which they operate, stop allowing these animals to come so close together?
What they are doing is they are using antibiotics on factory
farms in order to bring about antimicrobial circumstances for these
animals. And that in and of itself is causing some substantial
health problems in many places. Is any focus on this right now?
Secretary VILSACK. Yes, there is. We are working with the Food
and Drug Administration to make sure that we focus on a sciencebased system. We are working closely with the FDA on both animal
and public health. I would say that we are working to make sure
that sound animal management practices are the standard. And I
would say, in fairness, I think the vast, vast, vast majority of farmers who are raising livestock are very sensitive to this, and they
are sensitive for a number of reasons. First and foremost, they are
concerned about the safety of their consumers. Without consumers,
they dont have a market; without a market, they dont make
money.
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And so I think that the vast majority of folks are sensitive to
this. And I think you are beginning to see greater sensitivity. I met
for examplethis is a little bit far afield from your questionbut
I met recently with the egg producers. And they are in the process
now of voluntarily taking a look at ambient air quality around the
facilities. They werent required to do this, they are doing it on
their own because they are sensitive to the concerns that you have
raised. So I think you are seeing an increased sensitivity by the industry and I think the vast majority of people in the industry are
sensitive to this and are working hard. And I think the government, I think we have a new spirit of cooperation between USDA
and HHS and FDA, and I think that new spirit of cooperation will
ensure that we are doing what we need to do to protect folks.
Mr. HINCHEY. Mr. Secretary, thank you very much.
RURAL SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING
Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Chairman, thank you. The rural America that I
grew up in doesnt exist today. The rural America I grew up in was
void in many cases of rural housing opportunities for folks who
worked off the farm but still did some farming. The rural America
I grew up in 60 years ago didnt have rural waterlines. The rural
America I grew up in, in many cases, didnt have the resources or
research available to them that we have today. I believe that
USDA and the agriculture and what we spend on agriculture has
been a blessing to the American consumer; cheap food, good quality
and generally safe.
When you look at some of the rural areas where small towns are
located, generally each of those have a housing authority or agency
that provide housing for folks who basically live inside town. But
in many cases, rural families in the last several years have been
void of an agency called Farmers Home Administration which, in
many cases, have helped with 502 housing loans through interest
credit as low as 1 percent, the 515 housing rural rental housing
loans that are available.
So one of the first questions I want to ask, and then I want to
get to food, as I look at this budget, and I dont see what I believe
is adequate funding to provide some direct loans to families at say
just the interest credit, the 1 percent loan. I know now we give subsidies up to 20, 24 percent based upon the income. But I believe
the program needs to be expanded. Do you see an expansion of the
502 program which can provide individual housing for families that
dont have a source today to be able to obtain funding for a loan?
Secretary VILSACK. We were certainly appreciative of the additional resources that this committee and the Congress provided in
the Recovery Act. And we put those resources to work immediately
because there was a backlog. So to your point, there was a backlog
obviously because we werent adequately funding the program. But
fortunately because of the resources that were provided we were
able to put them to work and we created 28,000 homeownership opportunities that might not otherwise have taken place, or certainly
wouldnt have taken place as quickly as they are. With the budget
that we are proposing this year we are looking at $1.1 billion in
direct assistance and $6.2 billion in guaranteed single family loans.
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This is the same level as was provided in 2009, and will, in our
view, provide 59,000 housing opportunities within the country. We
are hopeful that we can work with private lenders and encourage
them to get back, so to speak, in the market. Having traveled recently to a number of States, I know that there are some real concerns about whether or not those private lenders are going to get
back in the game. We hope with this level of funding that they will.
59,000 home ownership opportunities, I think, is fairly significant.
Mr. DAVIS. The guaranteed program obviously has especially
been what has been the driving focus for individual housing in
rural America through local banks. I do believe that we need to sit
down and have a more serious talk about direct loans for individuals who may not be able towho just drop below that level where
they did not obtain housing. I see through my district, as I travel,
many dilapidated homes that are not adequate living conditions.
And a lot of those are rental units. I just hope that we can talk
about that and I would like to engage with you. My time is running
short.
INTERNATIONAL FOOD ASSISTANCE
The second thing I want to ask about, as we look throughout the

world today we see a lot of hunger. And I am extremely pleased
when I see a cargo plane being unloaded and it says USAID or
USA. In essence, we are shipping food to places throughout the
world where folks are hungry. Today, probably in Pakistan, those
300,000-some-odd refugees will be getting food grown by some
farmer in America. We have what, a $13 billion surplus, probably
the only part of Americas economy that has a surplus in trade.
And so I want to ask you about are we doing enough in our role
in the international food security such as the McGovern-Dole Food
For Education program. Otherwise, to be sure that do we need to
enhance those programs, are we spending adequately? Because I
think that is an area where the national security can be greater
for us and whether we become probably more embraced with people
throughout the world if they see us helping.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I appreciate you asking that question.
And I would, again, compliment this committee in particular for I
think what is a steadfast support for those kinds of programs. You
all saw the appropriateness of providing additional money this year
for McGovern-Dole which we put to good use, and specifically helping out four African nations and children within those African nations, and expanded the program by several hundred thousand children. We are proposing an increase this year of almost $100 million, for a total amount of $200 million for that program which will
assist 412 million mothers and children around the world to receive
assistance over a 3-year period.
And we are pleased to note that a number of countries which we
began to assist have seen the wisdom of this program and have
adopted their own programs and have become self-sufficient
enough to be able to take over that responsibility; Vietnam, Lebanon, two examples for example. I attended the G8 ag ministers
conference on food security, the first time the ag ministers from the
G8 had ever met, and the conference was focused on food security.
And we essentially establishedand if I can just have a minute of
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timeessentially established three components to the U.S. position
on food security.
First and foremost, it is about making sure that food is available.
And there are three basic components to that. One component is
the capacity of a country to grow their own, which is important.
The capacity of that country to actually engage in trade, to supplement what they cant grow. And then emergency aid and assistance
which is what we are talking about here is the third component.
But even if you have available food, it may not be enough unless
you have access to that food. Which means that it is important for
us to continue work on investing in the infrastructure and the
economy that will allow people to purchase food or be able to get
food to where it is needed.
And even if you have access to food and even if it is available,
if you dont know how to utilize it properly, if you dont have the
nutritional information on how to prepare food properly and the
like you can still have food insecurity issues. So the G8 ministers,
along with a number of other countries that were at this meeting,
have suggested that we make a major international effort in those
three areas. And I am pleased that this administration, the President in particular, have voicedhave given voice to this, and this
committee has given voice to this. This is extremely, extremely important for national security, not just food security but also national security.
Ms. DELAURO. Just to let the committee know I wanted to make
sure that everyone has participated in the first round, so I am
going to recognize Mr. Farr. I know you havent. Mr. Farr, and
then we will go back and forth. Thank you.
PLANT PEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES
Mr. FARR. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. I am sorry,

I havent been here. I have been running across the floor to Veterans where General Shinseki, Secretary Shinseki is. So it is Secretaries Day here today. Thank you for being here. I am really
pleased that you accepted this responsibility. And I think as a governor you really understand how the rubber meets the road. And
that is really essential in this job today. One of the things I wanted
to ask you about is I represent the Salinas Valley, which is, I
think, Salinas Valley is all inside one county in Monterey County,
and we do $3.8 billion in sales of 85 different crops. I dont think
there is a county in the world that does that many different varieties of crops. Most of them are all row crops and leafy green vegetables. When the E. coli breakout came, it was obviously that we
needed to create some protocols in the growing practices that would
ensure that pathogens wouldnt enter the food chain.
And the growers, to their credit, came up with a leafy green marketing order which essentially now has a process in which U.S. certified inspectors, auditors, go in and inspect the process. And at the
end, if you abide to all these protocols, you get a certified California
Department of Agriculture. What is happening, sort of happened
before and during this now, is that buyers have started a vicious
spiral of one-upsmanship using private third-party auditors that
are not necessarily certified by thethey are trained by the USDA.
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They require even greater levels of assurances by essentially telling folks, well, you have got to build fences around your fields, you
have got to kill every single animal. The growers are coming back
and saying, look, our hawk population, our owls, these are our
predators that have been very beneficial. And beneficial insects as
well, because a lot of them grow sustainable viticultures and things
like that by using integrated pest management. So these private
buyers are essentially changing not based on science, not based on
any good ag practices, but it is based on sort of a corporate knee
jerk idea that we are going to make our growers go through tougher standards. And they have to do that or they wont buy their
field.
NATIONAL LEAFY GREEN MARKETING PROGRAM
And I am wondering two things about this: What is the Department doing to help create a national leafy green marketing program and what can we do to get the buyers back into essentially
following Federal protocols rather than creating their own? Because it is running into conflicts with all of the best management
practices, habitat management, it is riparian management. What I
have learned from both the cattlemen and the growers is that you
make the most money in agriculture when nature can be your partner. We have spent an awful lot of time and years in America trying to fight nature, wipe out everything that is living, make the
fields clean, sterilize them essentially and start over again. And
that is too expensive. And what you end up with is soils that are
not productive and not that sort of beneficial work.
And so those that work with nature, and that, essentially, is the
modern agricultural practices, very green style of understanding
how to work with nature. And now we have these protocols that
are killing everything that we have tried to establish in modern
best management practices. And I think it needs real leadership to
step in and say to the private buyers out there, the bigyou know,
they are buyingI mean, McDonalds is competing against Taco
Bell and all these companies are trying to say you buy our stuff
and we have made sure that our growers grow to some kind of sterile process, it just doesnt make any sense.
Secretary VILSACK. This has been an issue that we have been
grappling with, as you know, for a couple of years. AMS published
an Advance Notice of Rulemaking in October of 2007 and received
3,500 comments to it. We began the process of trying to formulate
a workable plan. We have asked for in this budget an increase of
$2.3 million to work with the industry to, indeed, complete the
work in developing and establishing and operating a Federal marketing agreement system that will involve quality factors but will
also make it within reason. We have been asked to do this by the
producers and handlers, and we are in the process of working on
this. And at this point in time, we dont have a specific agreement,
but we are committed to working with the industry to get that
agreement.
Mr. FARR. How much is a carrot and how much is a stick? The
industry is trying to get other States to adopt the California method or something similar.
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Secretary VILSACK. You know, that is a question I am going to
have to ask for additional time to answer because I dont know the
answer to that question, but I will follow up, our staff will follow
up.
USDAs AMS is currently reviewing a request for public hearings on a proposed
national marketing agreement for leafy green vegetables, which is expected to be
submitted by a coalition of producer and handler representatives of the fresh
produce industry in June 2009. As proposed, the agreement would authorize the development and implementation of production and handling regulations (metrics)
designed to support good agricultural, handling, manufacturing, and management
practices in the fresh leafy green vegetable industry. Metrics would be sciencebased, scalable and regionally applicable in order to accommodate compliance of
varying size and types of operations.

BROADBAND PROGRAM BUDGET REQUEST
Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Secretary, I want to get back to the question

on savings. On the broadband increase the stimulus package had,
I think it was $2.3 billion, and then you are asking for another increase. And I was wondering why when I am sure that the monies
has not even been spent?
Secretary VILSACK. There is a significant need for this country to
accelerate in a very meaningful way its implementation.
Mr. KINGSTON. Let meI mean, philosophically we are not arguing we need toI mean, give me the dollar and cents, the buyers
decision here.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, we are on track with both the Department of Commerce and the USDA to begin the process of investing
the resources that you have provided in the Recovery and Reinvestment Act. We hope to have some kind of framework by June and
resources beginning to hit communities in the fall of this year. So
we have a very aggressive timetable in terms of making grants and
loans under the Recovery and Reinvestment Act.
Mr. KINGSTON. Let me make sure I understand. What you are
saying is by October we will have spentno, you are not saying
that I guess. You are saying that within the next year we will
spend $4.3 billion which would be stimulus plus what you are asking for?
Secretary VILSACK. That is correct.
Mr. KINGSTON. And in addition to that, Commerce will spend
about $3 billion?
Secretary VILSACK. And this will come as no surprise to you that
there will still be a substantial need for additional resources because we are so far behind.
Mr. KINGSTON. Does this administration see any role for the private sector and have any fear that this corporate welfare or that
there can be an overlap with corporate welfare?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I think what we are looking at is actually partnerships. If you look at the way in which we are going to
structure these grants and loans we will be working in concert with
the industry. We are trying to figure out ways to work with them,
not against them. We are trying to figure out ways in which we can
entice and incent these monies to be leveraged.
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Mr. KINGSTON. I would imagine it would be pretty easy. They
were paying for themselves, now the Federal Government is going
to kick in 50 percent or whatever the percentage is.
Secretary VILSACK. With due respect, I am not quite sure it is
that simple. You have got a number of unserved areas where it
may be difficult initially to make the business case, but the need
is still there. And it is particularly important for rural America. It
is important for the following reasons. One, because producers need
access to technology so that they have just in time information to
be able to make informed decisions. Two, if we are going to focus
on microenterprise opportunities in small business development in
rural areas they have got to be connected not just to their market
locally but to the worldwide market. To do that, youve got to have
access to technology. And three, we are way behind, as you know,
foreign competitors in terms of implementation of high speed
broadband, and we cannot afford to be behind in this day and age.
So I think there is a need, I think we are cognizant of the fact
that we have not done as good a job as we should have in the past
in investing these resources and we are certainly hopeful of correcting those mistakes.
Mr. KINGSTON. How are you keeping from unjustly and rich in
thethis committee has actually had some discussion about the retired Wall Street broker who is living on a mountaintop and wants
to pull out his laptop to check his stock portfolios, why should we
supplement his broadband?
Secretary VILSACK. Because he is living next to a small entrepreneur who is getting a small business started and needs access
to a worldwide market.
Mr. KINGSTON. Well, that is corporate welfare. If he is a small
entrepreneur, why should we be running to him to go help him
make money?
BROADBAND INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS
Secretary VILSACK. It is in the same way that we back in the

1930s, we provided rural electrification to farm families because it
is a technology that you will need in order to succeed. And we have
a long-term return on investment that will be significant and substantial if we do this right.
Mr. KINGSTON. Do you haveI would be interested in how this
$9 billion got broken down and why for example it didnt go to the
USDA. If we are in a hurry to get it out, why do we create a new
program in Commerce when the USDA already had the governmental infrastructure to do the grants?
Secretary VILSACK. I think what you are going to find is that we
are working in concert with the Commerce Department and you
are going to see a unified application process, you are going to see
a streamlined process, you are going to see a process that reflects
the complexity of this.
Mr. KINGSTON. But it should be unified and it should be streamlined, in fact, it should be just one agency doing it?
Secretary VILSACK. The problem is that USDA focuses on rural
areas. The Commerce Departmentthere are unmet needs in
urban centers, in intercity America in the same way that there is
need in rural America. So I think the reason why you divided the
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money is so that both areas could be served and both areas could
have access.
Mr. BISHOP. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. KINGSTON. Yes, I would be happy to.
Mr. BISHOP. I dont know if you remember the debate during the
stimulus package, but that was a really knockout drag out over
who was going to control these broadband monies, whether it was
going to be Commerce or whether it was going to be Agriculture.
And those of us who represent the rural communities actually we
threw down and drew the line that there had to be some control
by USDA through rural development in the Rural Utilities Service.
Otherwise these underserved communities in rural areas wouldnt
get the benefits. And so that is why there was a demarcation so
that USDA would have it.
Mr. KINGSTON. I think USDA should have gotten all of it just because it was an unexisting infrastructure.
Mr. BISHOP. Politics wouldnt allow it?
Ms. DELAURO. I think we all agree with the ranking member
that USDA should have gotten all the money.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, let me suggest
Mr. KINGSTON. Let me yield to Mrs. Emerson one minute.
Mrs. EMERSON. Here is one thing. I am thrilled. I would rather
give all the money to RUS too, having 28 very rural counties. However, the thing that is a little troubling and kind of confusing to
me is, I know RUS is getting a larger piece I guess than the NTIA
at Commerce, is that correct? Or is it about equal or is it flipped
the other way? It is flipped the other way.
BROADBAND MAPS
However, the Federal Communications Commission has actually

been tasked with providing a plan for broadband deployment, if
you will, throughout the rest of the country and creating a map for
the places we need it, but it is not due for a whole year from now.
And that is why I am confused, because I know that you all are
going to use this money, and believe me we have a need, and I
have lots of people who applied for these grants through RUS. But
I am just confused why the FCC then is layered over on top of both
NTIA and USDA to create this map when perhaps we should have
created that map in advance. I know we have one already in Missouri, so I am not sure it is that hard, but still.
Secretary VILSACK. I think you are going to find that a substantial number of maps exist in States that will make it easier for us
to identify where the unserved and underserved areas are and easier for the FCC after we do our work and after we do our investments to figure out where we havent been able to meet the need
or the demand. And I would say in fairness, we have a responsibility to do this job better than we have done it in the past. And
that is the challenge that we have laid out to RUS. And I think
with the system and the process and the conversations taking place
between us and Commerce, I think we are going to do a better job.
Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Secretary, are you, in your heart of hearts,
convinced that there is no corporate welfare here or do you have
fear that it could creep into some corporate welfare?
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Secretary VILSACK. Honestly, I dont see it that way, I truly
dont. What I see is the difficulty with small populated areas where
the need is significant and great being able to without government
assistance be able to make the business case today for the infrastructure investment. Once the infrastructure investment is made,
then the business case is created, I think, to figure out ways in
which you can market and utilize that service. I just think it is
very difficult. It is a much easier business decision to make to put
it someplace where it is less expensive to install and where the
rates are more competitive and more profitable.
Mr. KINGSTON. I know I am out of time, but I cant resist saying,
so broadband is now an entitlement and a right, is that what I am
hearing?
Secretary VILSACK. No, no. I would say with due respect
Mr. KINGSTON. That is the problem with a 5-minute rule, you
cant get into the philosophical discussions.
Secretary VILSACK. To be candid, you have had ten minutes.
Mr. KINGSTON. I have been yielding generously.
Secretary VILSACK. They didnt start your clock right away.
Ms. DELAURO. No, no, no, you were going to say something.
Mr. KINGSTON. No, that is good. We will continue the discussion
later.
Secretary VILSACK. I will only say that there is a national need.
It is not an entitlement, it is a national need.
Mr. KINGSTON. Close to entitlement.
Secretary VILSACK. Those are your words, not mine.
Mr. KINGSTON. I dont mind adopting them.
RUS (ARRA) BROADBAND PROGRAM
Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Secretary, I will just make one very short
comment on that. Our concern on this committee, and it is on both
sides of the aisle, as you can tell, is that we have a lot of faith in
USDA through RUS delivering these loans and getting to where
there is the greatest need. And you are not going to have to answer
this. But I am just saying is that we dont want this held up. We
have got a stimulus package that is there that is supposed to be
moved. We figure that in fighting for that money, that we could get
that money out much more quickly because of a developed program
than with going through Commerce.
So that is why we are watching as carefully as we can, because
that is what it was about. That was whatjust we were in danger
of losing this money, as you know. I mean, we fought like hell, excuse me, to make sure it was there because we believed that USDA
had a better mechanism to do this than Commerce. So that is what
we are just watching, and we are going to go vigilant. And we want
to make sure that ultimately, the loan money gets out fast and
quickly. And the stimulus money is out there to do the job it was
intended to do.
Secretary VILSACK. And I think your confidence is well placed because I think we have had an impact on the system, and I think
you are going to see those resources on both the Commerce and the
USDA out as quickly as appropriate.
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NATIONAL ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM
Ms. DELAURO. Well, obviously you can tell we are going to be

looking at it and we will be talking to you about it. Let me go back
to the national animal identification system issue. Dr. John
Clifford, APHIS chief veterinarian, said before a recent House Ag
Committee at an animal ID oversight hearing, The system we
have has not worked. The system has to be effective, and this is
not effective. Several questions. Why should we continue, and I
would beg the indulgence of the other side of the aisle. Why should
we continue the Bush animal ID system? If you want us to keep
the system on life support in the 2010 budget, we need to know
where you are taking the program, when we will have an indication from USDA as to how it will deliver an effective animal ID
program.
Let me add to this configuration April 2009 cost benefit analysis
report. Interesting findings. I am not going to go through them all.
But the study found that an effective animal ID system would be
a valuable tool for protecting U.S. market share for beef exports.
The study concludes that countries that fail to provide an effective
traceability system will lose export market access. Researchers estimate that a loss of 25 percent of market share loss similar to the
South Korean market prior to the 2003 BSE. Discovery in the U.S.
would result in producer revenues dropping by $18.25 per head
sold. Anyway, the economic benefits that are pointed out in this
study, we didnt do the study, they came out of people who know
this area and who have come to some recommendations and conclusions. There are positive economic benefits from an effective animal
ID system. You also have public-private partnerships.
If we have a mandatory system you cut down the costs because
we are not dealing with marketing everywhere in this place. We
are also going to get the private sector to pick up some of the costs
of this effort as well. What are the greatest impediments to delivering such a system? Since the voluntary approach for 5 years has
failed, doesnt the study further make a case for a mandatory identification system?
Secretary VILSACK. There are a number of issues within animal
identification, and I will just touch on a few of them. You asked
what are the barriers. There is a serious reservation and concern
on the part of a number of producers as to precisely how this information will be collected, who will collect it, where it will be stored,
how secure it will be and what uses beyond animal identification
could potentially be used and whether or not information that is
collected is subject to any kind of public disclosure. That is one
issue. There is the issue of cost. There is a significant difference
between the cost of an animal identification system for poultry, for
sheep, for hogs and for cattle. I think it is fair to say, and I could
be corrected on this, but I think it is fair to say that the cost of
the cattle industry is significantly higher than it is to the other industries. And the question then becomes who bears that cost and
who should bear it and what cost is it.
And I have seen some estimates as high as $5 to $6 a head,
which is a fairly significant cost to the producers. There are serious
issues about how detailed the identification must be and whether
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or not when you talk about traceability whether or not you are
talking about movements from one field to another or are you talking about movements from where cattle are raised to where they
are slaughtered. Precisely what are you talking about. So there are
a number of issues that at least I have learned in the two listening
sessions that lead me to believe that we need to be more innovative
and more creative about this process.
Now, that is not to say that I will, at some point, in time not
agree with your observation. I am interested in learning as much
as I can because my goal is to have as much participation as possible.
NATIONAL ANIMAL ID SYSTEM
Now, you may say, well, a mandatory system will guarantee participation. Maybe yes, maybe no. If you have serious resistance to
a system, you could potentially get yourself in a situation where
you dont have as much participation as you need. And it is fairly
clear that you need 70 to 80 percent participation or the system is
not going to work.
So we are conducting these listening sessions. Madam Chair, we
dont expect to drag this out for an extended period of time. That
is not our desire. We do want to give all parts of the country an
opportunity to participate and to provide input. We have already,
in two listening sessions, had 57 presentations. And I think we
have half a dozen more of these listening sessions scheduled over
the course of the next couple of months.
So our expectation is to get something concluded here relatively
soon. It is important. You have identified the fact that there is
huge market risk here, if we dont do it right, huge. And, of course,
there is an issue of animal disease and the capacity to contain it
if it happens.
Ms. DELAURO. I want to make a final comment because I am out
of time. And this is information that I received yesterday which I
would like to have further conversations with you.
The Canadians, 2001, launched the system; fully compliant by
2002. There are about 10 to 12 companies out there that deal with
this issue. Wisconsin: 60,000 Wisconsin livestock farms registered
annually since 2004, $12 per farm to run the program. That comes
from theI didnt make that upWisconsin Livestock ID Association. Forty million head of Canadian cattle tracked since 2001, 20
cents per head to run the program.
The data is there, and we have to come to some decision here
and look at what the accuracies are of the costs involved over the
years. They have been overstated to a fare-thee-well. We are now
at $142 million, and it is another $14.6 million. And it is hard to
justify for the outcome.
And when my colleagues look at outcomesbelieve me, if this
were some social program somewhere and we had this rate of failure, I suggest to you it would be on the list of programs that are
going to be terminated. And you would have concurrence by 435
Members of this body, given this age of looking at cost and what
we are spending here.
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I will just leave it at that. I would like to have more conversations with you privately about data and information, about costs
that are involved.
HUNGER-FREE COMMUNITY GRANTS REQUEST
Mrs. EMERSON. Ditto on the computers, too, yes.

Okay. Mr. Secretary, last week, a report from Feeding America
helped lay out a cold fact of life in America: that more than 12 million children in the U.S. are food insecure. And, in Missouri, probably one out of every five children under the age of 5 is food insecure. And while those numbers are from 2005 to 2007, I have to
believe based on a lot of anecdotes that I have had from folks in
my district with rising unemployment that that number is rising
as well.
And so, given our knowledge of the facts, I really believe strongly
that now is the time for Congress and the administration to do everything we can to ensureevery effort to maximize resources, leverage funds and ensure that we do not overlook any opportunity
to reduce the number of hungry.
This is an area where I believe the $5 million request for hungerfree community grants will be beneficial. And, as you may know,
these grants would support communities and efforts to organize
local strategies for hunger prevention, especially among children.
And I am hoping that these grants will be funded and help find
their way to organize and leverage other local efforts.
Mr. Secretary, however, I do believe that we also need to ensure
that we are doing all we can on a national level, as well. In your
short time on the job, would you say that you have come across
anything resembling a comprehensive government-wide strategy to
combat hunger in America?
Secretary VILSACK. I think there are elements of a comprehensive strategy. I think the capacity to expand the school nutrition
programs, the school lunch programs, working with countless numbers of local organizations to fill in the gaps on weekends and during summer vacation. I dont know that we necessarily have found
the silver bullet, but I think there are a lot of innovative and creative ideas out there. And we hope to be able foster more of those
ideas, particularly in those gap areas.
I will tell you that the recent school closures with the H1N1 have
given us an opportunity to think about what happens if there is an
extended period of time when schools are shut down. And we began
to talk about what our response and what our responsibility would
be. And I think what I learned from that was that, in that circumstance, if we have an extended school closure, we have work to
do.
So I think there are elements of a comprehensive plan, but I
wouldnt tell you today that, here is what the plan is.
Mrs. EMERSON. Well, you know, just like Secretary Clinton is trying to marshal all of the government resourcesand, you know,
you have been definitely part of that on the international hunger
front. We had that meeting; Rosa was there, and I was there. It
was a couple of weeks ago, who knows, but somewhere in the last
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couple of weeks. And I was very excited about that, because I
thought she had a great handle on it.
Would it be in your ability to be able to do the same kind of
multi-pronged strategy and pull everybody together in the room on
the domestic front? Is that something that you would support or
that you would be interested in doing?
NUTRITION ASSISTANCE
Secretary VILSACK. Well, and I think to a certain extent, not that

I have called this or that I have been personally involved in it, but
to the extent that there has been a fairly broad group of folks
working on the reauthorization proposal, I think we have the workings, the beginnings of that process. And I have had a series of
meetings, individual meetings, with a number of groups on this
issue of what do you do on weekends and what do you do on summer vacation. I am concerned about that.
I think we have had a real good-faith effort to try to get food to
children. We just havent figured out how to make sure that all of
our children are actually, in fact, fed.
Mrs. EMERSON. Yeah. And the fact that we still have 12 million
who we know are food insecure is pretty scary, and considering
how rich our country is, even the poorest among the poor, as compared to, you know, say, other countries in Latin America, Central
America. But it is just mind-bogglingbecause, you know, some
people dont want to go to the food pantry. And, of course, half of
the time, our food pantries now just dont have anything.
And the school lunch program is great, but not all kids go to
school. And so, you still have all the little ones who, if they are not
in Head Start and getting a square meal there, they are left out
in the cold.
Secretary VILSACK. That is why WIC is important. That is why
the day-care programs are important. That is why the school lunch
and school breakfast programs are important.
But I would point out that we have another issue that we have
to deal with, and that is, depending upon how those programs are
implemented at the local level, it creates the potential for stigma,
which discourages youngsters from utilizing the program.
Just today, I had a story of a computer program where you basically put your thumbprint on the computer to verify you are the
person who is supposed to get the lunch, and then in big, huge,
bold letters it says free and reduced lunch student. So your kids
are going through the line, you are putting your finger up there,
and it tags you as a free and reduced lunch kid. And, you know,
so what happens is youngsters say, I dont want even to be part
of it. I will just skip lunch.
Mrs. EMERSON. Right. And that is absolutely critical.
But it would be wonderful if we could encourage you to try to put
a more formal organization together so we could collectively work
on this issue. There are so many resources and so many private organizations, nongovernmental organizations out there working on
this issue, and I just feel like if we collectively do it and we have
a national campaign, if you will
Secretary VILSACK. Can I just have an amendment that, if we
were going to do this, I think we ought to do both sides of the equa-
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tion here. We have an issue with hunger, but we also have an issue
with obesity. And it would be helpful, I think, to have a conversation about both.
Mrs. EMERSON. I think it definitely does fit together, because in
our more rural areasas we are sitting here eating Virginia peanuts with how many grams of fat?
Ms. DELAURO. Only one side of the aisle is eating. Thanks, Jack.
Mrs. EMERSON. 140 caloriesoh, no.
Thank you so much. But we would like very much, and I would
personally like very much, to work with you on this issue.
OFFICE OF CIVIL RIGHTS
I had said that I wanted to go back and revisit the issue of the
Office of Civil Rights budget. The proposed 2010 budget for the Office of Civil Rights totals $28 million, an increase of about 7.6 percent, including funding for an additional two full-time employees,
bringing the total number in that office to 115.
Given the tremendous backlog and the complaints which have
yet to be adjudicated, not to mention the cases that are currently
being filed, in addition to the ramp-up of the second phase of the
Pigford case and the administrative burdens that that will present,
I wonder if the Office of Civil Rights needs a significant increase
in resources above what is being proposed.
And as an addendum to that, could you share with us how many
cases or complaints are currently pending? And, of those pending,
how many are internal complaints and how many are external
complaints, for example, those submitted by minority farmers or
producers?
Secretary VILSACK. Sir, I dont know that I have a breakdown of
the specific number of complaints in terms of internal or external.
I can tell you that we are reviewing the previous 8 or 9 years
worth of complaints. It stands in my memory that there is somewhere in neighborhood of 13,000, but I could be wrong about that
number.
And the reason we are reviewing them is that a relatively small,
and I mean a relatively small, number of those complaints were
found to be valid complaints or properly filed. So we wanted to
make sure that whatever decisions were made were made in the
proper fashion.
We have or are in the process of securing the services of some
folks who are going to help us go through that process, who, because of their previous experience, will be able to do a fairly good
and relatively quick job because they know what to look for in reviewing those files. And I believe we are doing that within the existing budget, this years budget.
We have requested additional money. We have requested additional money for additional employees and for a record management system. We are hopeful that, with this additional money, that
we can also aggressively pursue our congressional mandate to establish a meaningful Office of Advocacy and Outreach in order to
prevent future problems.
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So our hope is that we have adequate resources to do the job.
And if we dont, then we will have to figure out a way to make do.
We are very committed to this. And I think we have the people to
be able to get it done.
Mr. BISHOP. Let me ask you, the Office of Civil Rights, the director of that office, does he report directly to you, or does he report
to the Under Secretary for Administration? What is the chain of
command there?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION
Secretary VILSACK. You know, I dont have the flowchart in my

mind right now. I will tell you that what we are suggesting is that
the Assistant Secretary for Administration be elevated to an Under
Secretary so that he can be on the same level as all the of the other
Under Secretaries, so when he asks for assistance in promoting
civil rights in terms of hiring and promotion and activities within
each agency, he is at the same level as his counterparts.
Mr. BISHOP. He would also oversee the other sub-agencies with
regard to administration matters?
Secretary VILSACK. That is correct. That is correct.
Mr. BISHOP. Okay. Do you need legislation to elevate that, or will
you be able to do it administratively?
Secretary VILSACK. I dont think I can do that administratively.
I think that is something that you have the power to do; I dont.
I am just suggesting that it is difficult, if you are trying to tell
an Under Secretary of Natural Resources and Environment to, you
know, do a better job of minority hiring or to ask questions as to
why promotions arent, you know, equitable, just hypothetically
speaking, it is difficult to do that when you are here and you are
talking to someone who is, in a sense, a superior, at a superior
level.
Mr. BISHOP. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
I yield back the balance of my time, and I do have some.
Ms. DELAURO. I appreciate that, Mr. Bishop.
Mr. Latham.
Mr. LATHAM. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman.
EFFECTS OF H1N1 ON THE PORK INDUSTRY
Secretary, as you are well aware with the H1N1 outbreakand,

unfortunately, it was called the swine flu and had aI guess, number one, it really highlights the need for the animal surveillance
program and strong animal disease research, but also just the economic hardship that is placed on our pork producers. And I have
some people talking about, you know, the bankers saying dont
asking them if they want to sell their land or if they want to sell
their sows and things like that.
Is there anything that we can do? I mean, I have had people suggest some kind of a school lunch or government buyout or something to try and help them. Are there any actions we can take?
Secretary VILSACK. We are in the process of taking a look at
what our options are. To a certain extent, the flexibilities that this
Department has had in the past have beenI dont know what the
right word is; curtailed is the only word I can think ofcurtailed
by specific directions from Congress in terms of the allocation of re-
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sources that have been, in the past, available. So our options are
limited, but we are looking at that limited help and assistance.
I know that we have received a request to purchase $50 million
worth of pork. I, candidly, am not sure that we have that kind of
flexibility left in the budget, but we are looking for opportunities
to help this industry out.
And first and foremost is to preserve the market that exists
today by making sure that people characterize this as a virus that
is not basically a food-borne virus.
Mr. LATHAM. As far as trade, it has affected that quite dramatically. Anything that we can do on that front?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, there are several things we have done
and we are going to continue to do. And some of them have been
successful, and we still have more work to do.
Last week, I met with ambassadors from 20 countries, basically
laying out precisely what our process is, laying out what the nature
of the virus is, the fact that it was not food-borne, that you cant
get it by eating pork, that there is no scientific reason or international trade reason for banning pork or pork products. We have
been requested to provide letters to these countries, and we are in
the process of doing that.
We have seen a good response from Central American countries.
They have reopened their markets. We have seen a very strong and
positive statement from some of our trading partners, like Japan.
We still have work to do with several of our trading partners, including China and Russia.
Mr. LATHAM. Well, I hope when you met you served ham sandwiches or something.
Secretary VILSACK. Oh, I have been doing my personal part, I
can tell you that.
Mr. FARR. We eat a lot of pork here, too.
Mr. LATHAM. Thanks, Sam.
CROP INSURANCE
Just, I guess, about the crop insurance, I know you have a proposal that the government net book quota share, the 20 percent
versus the current 5 percent. In that proposal, also, as far as your
explanation of your proposed legislation, decreasing premium subsidies by 5 percent, increasing the book quota, and decreasing the
premiums on the CAT coverage by 25 percent.
I mean, do you know whichwill the Department do some kind
of analysisnumber one, has this been proposed? Is there any legislative language? Number two, have you done any kind of study
as to which companies are going to survive if the government takes
over more and more of the business? You are obviously very aware
in Iowa of what a huge impact that has.
Secretary VILSACK. I appreciate the question about this, and I
think it is important to sort of understand the history.
When crop insurance was first issued, it was not something that
wasit was something that had to be marketed. It was something
that had to be incented. It was something where producers had to
be encouraged to participate.
Today, that is not the case. Many banks are now making it a
condition of loans. Obviously, when you establish the disaster pro-
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grams, you basically provide it as a condition of obtaining disaster
relief, that you have crop insurance. So there is now more of a
mandate than just simply having to market.
Therefore, the companies dontthey have seen a huge increase
in their market, but they havent actually increased coverage and
so forth. So they have been making a tremendous amount of
money, billions of dollars. We just think that this needs to be a fair
deal to taxpayers.
Now, do we have legislation that is proposed? Not yet. It has
been drafted, and we will obviously get that to you. Have we done
an analysis of how individual companies will be impacted? That
might be difficult to do without knowing precisely what companies
are selling what products this year.
I will tell you that we are anxiously awaiting the GAO report on
crop insurance to determine whether or not that leads us in a different direction or supports what we are doing. And we expect to
see that very soon.
Mr. LATHAM. If I could just indulge just for one kind of followup, I mean, you know, there is great skepticism out there about the
Federal Government controlling all the banks, controlling the car
companies. Expanding the role in another area here where the government is actually in competition with the private sector and expanding that, forcing basically a bunch of companies out of business, I think would get a lot of pushback, I would have to say.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I dont want to get into a disagreement
with you, Congressman.
Mr. LATHAM. Oh, come on.
Secretary VILSACK. There is a tremendous amount of profit being
generated from this line of work. And, essentially, it was created
Mr. LATHAM. There is also a tremendous amount of risk.
Secretary VILSACK. There is. And the government is willing to
share in the risk. If it is 20 percent of the gain, it is also 20 percent
of the loss. So it is a sharing of that risk and a sharing of the gain,
and we think a fairer sharing of the gain because the gain has dramatically increased. And as time goes on, the capacity to more accurately determine what your losses are going to be gets better,
and so you increase the profit margin. So this is about recalibrating
the deal, and I think it is a fair request.
Mr. LATHAM. I respectfully disagree, but thank you very much.
Secretary VILSACK. I expect that.
AGRICULTURE AND FOOD RESEARCH INITIATIVE
Mr. DAVIS. In 1862 and 1890, legislation was passed creating

land grant colleges and, as a result of that, the Agriculture and
Food Research Initiative, which provides competitive grants for
some of these universities to do research and maybe to find better
ways for nutrition, food safety, agricultural production, and even
conservation problems.
Do you think it is adequately funded today? And if not, would
you support increasing funding for AFRI?
Secretary VILSACK. You know, that is an interesting way of
phrasing a question. We are here to talk about the budget we have
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proposed and submitted. I will tell you that I am looking forward

to the opportunity to spend a full year understanding the intricacies of this budget, because when we do have that full year I think
we will make perhaps even better decisions than we have made in
the relatively short period of time.
I am interested in making sure that the research that is done by
USDA is, A, coordinated; B, works with our land grant universities;
C, is competitive as it can possibly be; and D, addresses the critical
issues confronting agriculture.
I cant tell you today, because I frankly have not had the time
to delve into this, whether or not that is the system we have today.
We may very well have that system. But I wanted the opportunity
for the Under Secretary of Research to be able to look at this and
give recommendations to me in terms of whether we have the best
system and the most adequately funded system or whether we need
to put more additional resources in. My suspicion is that he will
come back and say more resources are needed.
Mr. DAVIS. Madam Chairman, there is a letter that each of us
probably have. I would like to ask, if we could, for that to be put
into the record of todays hearing, if that is possible, unless it is
already a part of it. It is signed by 59 vice presidents and 11 presidents of the land grant colleges. With your permission.
Ms. DELAURO. Without objection.
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392
Ms. DELAURO. Go ahead.
RURAL BROADBAND PROGRAMS
Mr. DAVIS. My second comment, as we talk about broadband, I

envision that rural Tennessee and rural Fourth Congressional District and rural counties across America could use broadband as a
way to basically have a magnet school for small school systems
that would be possible for them to be able to educate the best and
brightest. Maybe a college professor at the University of Tennessee
or Iowa will be instructing students from the fourth grade all the
way up through the 12th grade.
My wife, a teacher, says that for the first 3 years of school we
teach a child to read and, after that, the child reads to learn. And
so I think that we are failing in this country in not challenging the
best and brightest. We did a wonderful job with special education,
to bring folks into our economy, into the workforce, and from then
we have actually helped folks be able to be a part of our society.
But I think broadband is where we can really make a tremendous difference in many areas, education being one of those. When
the interstate systems were built, they didnt stop in Nashville,
Memphis, Chattanooga, Knoxville. They went all across rural
America. Broadband needs to do the same thing.
And so my hope is, as you start promulgating the rules, so that
my communication cooperatives in the district, or wherever it may
be, can apply for the grants to be able to make available and accessible to the rural public school systems an opportunity to better
fund education at much less cost.
So, at what level are we today in being able to have the rules
ready so that we can start seeing some of the dollars be expended?
Secretary VILSACK. Representative, first of all, you are absolutely
correct that there are multiple uses for broadband. You have mentioned one that is very important. The other is health care, the opportunity to link health care clinics with imaging resources, X-rays
and so forth, to save health care costs and make it easier for people
in rural communities to get adequate health care. There are many
uses for it.
We expect and anticipate by June that we will have the rules
and a framework in place. We expect, as it relates to the Recovery
and Reinvestment resources, that we will probably see three separate distributions of resources. Why, you say, not all at one time?
Because we want to learn from what kind of applications we get
from the first tranche of resources. And we expect that those resources will first be invested in the fall of this year. So we are
and that is both the Commerce Department and the USDA.
Mr. DAVIS. My home in Pall Mall still has dial-up. So when we
talk about the need for actually extending telecommunications and
others to rural areas, that is important.
I hear folks talk about this being a waste of money. The farmto-market roads go to a State highway. The State highway goes to
the intrastate system. The intrastate roads go to the interstate and
connect. And as a result of that, food, labor. Americas future because of rural America, because of looking at rural America and
helping develop it, has made Americas future better. I think
broadband can be a part of that.
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Secretary VILSACK. I agree with you.
Mr. DAVIS. My time is up.
Mr. FARR. Thank you very much.
MARKET ACCESS PROGRAM
I have one question about the MAP program, and then I want
to get into nutritional issues.
The administrationsOMBsjustification for reducing funding
for the MAP program cited a 10-year-old GAO study but did not
mention a more recent Global Insight study commissioned by the
Department of Agriculture, a study called, A Cost-Benefit Analysis
of USDAs International Marketing Development Programs. That
was a program done in 2006.
It showed that increased program funding provided by the 2000
Farm Bill for MAP and for the Foreign Market Development Program, the FMD, successfully increased U.S. Agricultural exports by
$3.8 billion and helped increase the annual farm net cash income
by $460 million.
Why was this study not taken into account by the administration?
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I am not sure that it wasnt taken into
account. I think there is obviously support for export assistance; it
is a question of what kind of export assistance we provide.
I think what we are suggesting is, the way in which we were providing these resources, essentially we are funding for-profit enterprises for activities and events that would have occurred anyway,
and, in fact, are occurring.
So it is not a question of not being supportive of MAP. It is a
question of whether the resources we were spending were for services that would have been provided anyway, and we believe probably would have been and will be provided anyway.
Mr. FARR. Okay. I am sure we are going to have quite a struggle
in Congress, as we always do, on MAP funding.
SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS
But let me switch to something that is dear to my heart and I

think dear to your heart and certainly dear to the President and
First Ladys heart, which is the school nutrition.
I have been pointing out that I think we have a morass of administrative problems in the facts of the feeding program. One is by
all the different programs we have created, but what is interestingand we get these reports here from your Department on
what we spent on buying food.
And I was just looking at this chart here of the food that was
purchased. This is the Food and Nutrition Service, Child Nutrition
Program. There isnt onethe only fresh thing I could find on here
were pears.
You know what we spent the most amount of money on last
year? The most money?
Ms. DELAURO. Mozzarella cheese.
Mr. FARR. You are right, Madam Chair. We spentand there is
nothing even that comes close$148,879,987 on mozzarella cheese.
That is just mozzarella. We also bought all kinds of cheddar
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cheeses and other shredded cheeses, reduced cheeses, pasteurized,
bulk, sliced cheeses, yellow cheeses, whatever.
So the problem is that, you know, we are telling the world that
you have to eat healthy in order to stay healthy, and yet what we
buy and distribute to the school lunch program is all the things
that we are not supposed to be eating, at least in that kind of
quantity. So we have to shift what we are providing in the school
lunches.
Now, let me get into the programs. In the schools, we have a
school lunch program, we have a school breakfast program, we
have a summer food service program, we have a special milk program, we have a snack program. And then we get intoand we
have commodity procurements, and that was a part of it.
What I would hope you would do is really start streamlining. We
ought to have just two feeding programs in America. We ought to
have a community feeding program with the WIC and food stamps
and all the things we do outside of the schools, in the broader community. And the other one area we ought to have ought to be the
school nutrition program.
And I hope that you will work on consolidating these programs.
I am working on the reauthorization, which isnt in this committee.
It is not even in the ag committees. It is in the Labor and Education Committee, working with George Millers staff to show
themand they have never really gone back in to look at why all
these programs were built differently.
We hear from the school nutritionists that they think that up to
60 to 70 percent of the programs are consumed in administrative
costs, because each one of these programs has to be audited and
so on. And, I mean, I think we ought to be block-granting these to
the schools.
We ought to be consolidating the programs into one, kind of,
multi-school program that thewe ought to be streamlining the
way we qualify using the data that we use for other Federal programs, such as the food stamp program and the Medicare program.
They are much more accurate, the computer data, than these forms
that have to go out to parents to prove that they are poor, and the
parents dont even speak the language that is on the forms.
So I hope that you will seriously tackle this in this year when
we have to reauthorize it, to essentially rebuild it or refinance it
to buy things that are nutritious.
Ms. DELAURO. You may answer, Mr. Secretary, because I want
to try to get in as many questions as we can to meet your schedule
and to meet a vote schedule that is coming up.
Secretary VILSACK. We are proposing additional investments in
fruits and vegetables, in addition to the $11 billion that we are currently purchasing in those areas. And so we are very cognizant of
the need to focus on more nutrition. We want to make sure that
the programs are consistent, more consistent with the dietary
guidelines. And we want to make sure that those dietary guidelines
are well-informed and well-structured on a nutritious diet.
Your issue about consolidation is a good one, and we will certainly give that consideration.
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Mr. FARR. Why dont we have a salad bar in every school? That
would be a great question for you to ask. I dont need an answer
here, but we would be interested in why we cant do that.
USDA PROGRAMS SAVINGS
Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Secretary, I may need to leave some of these

for the record, but one of them is on the broadband grant eligibility. We have heard from some small suppliers that the bigger
companies are influencing the grant process and to make sure that
they kind of will get more than their fair share. So we can submit
a letter to you on that, but that is something that I am sure we
are all sensitive about and probably on the same page on.
The other thing is I was interested in your CRP explanation to
Mr. Latham about the actual usage of it, as compared to the allocation of it.
Secretary VILSACK. Not CRP. Some of the other programs, the
wetlands
Mr. KINGSTON. Okay, the wetlands. And I was wondering, do you
apply that same ruler to SNAP and to WIC? Because it would appear to me that there would be a similar number of enrollments.
For example, food stamps has, as you know, an automatic trigger
for enrollees and for food inflation. And it was adjusted in October,
and yet in the stimulus program there was another $19 billion put
on it, and now we have another increase. And I am just wondering
if that same ruler applies.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, I think it is a slightly different circumstance, because you are seeing an increased utilization of those
programs as opposed to an underutilization.
Mr. KINGSTON. Is the increase based on the market trigger that
is suggested in June, or is it a speculative amount?
Secretary VILSACK. No, I think the increase is based on recognized demand and a weakening economy.
Mr. KINGSTON. Lets take a look at that, and I can send that letter to you with a better explanation. Because it seems to me there
is a little more speculation, because it was just suggested in October. But we will see.
The other thing is, I want to encourage youyou had testified
previously that $49 million was overpaid to ineligible participants
in farm programs because the recipients income was too high. I
want to encourage you on that as a potential savings. And if you
may remember, the dialogue that you and I had at that time was
that there was also, in terms of the Food Stamp Program, overpayments of $1.29 billion.
So, there is a lot of money there that, if we can do our jobs better, that we can get. And, of course, the point of both of these is
you want farm payments to go to eligible farmers only and you
want food stamps to go to the eligible people also.
Secretary VILSACK. That is true. I think there has been progress
made on the SNAP program. You know, I dont use that term, food
stamp, because, you know, I think it is a mischaracterization of
the program. It is a supplemental nutrition program, and I think
that is where the focus needs to be.
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Having said that, there has been literally a halving of the error
rate in that program over the course of the last several years. That
doesnt mean that there isnt more work to be done; there does.
And there also needs to be more work done on the school lunch and
school breakfast program, same kind of issue. And we are certainly
sensitive to that.
Mr. KINGSTON. Okay, good. Because, you know, at the end of this
process, which I am looking forward to working with you on savings, getting after overpayments and inefficiencies may be one
thing that really unites some philosophies in here.
Secretary VILSACK. I could use your help in helping some of your
colleagues understand that, because some people are concerned
about the fact that we are actually teaming up with the Internal
Revenue Service to make sure that we have a system to check and
make sure people who are getting farm payments are the ones who
are entitled to them. And some of the colleagues, particularly on
your side
Mr. KINGSTON. No, I absolutely agree with you. Money should go
to those who are eligible. And I might not like all the programs,
but they still should go to the people who are eligible for them.
LIBERALIZING TRADE WITH CUBA
The other thing is, will the President sign the bill if it has liberalization of trade with Cuba, if it gets amended in the process?
Secretary VILSACK. I havent talked to the President about that
issue, so I dont want to speak for him.
Mr. KINGSTON. What a smart answer.
I yield back.
Mr. FARR. Wouldnt that be great?
Mr. KINGSTON. Just wondering. Just wondering.
Secretary VILSACK. We are fortunate to have the opportunity to
do agricultural trade with Cuba, and we appreciateyou know,
that has been a good thing for Cuba, and it is a good thing for the
farmers.
Ms. DELAURO. It is a good way to increase, you know, additional
markets here for our farming communities. This is a committee
that is supportive of this issue, pretty much so. In any caseis
that true, Jack?
Mr. KINGSTON. What was the question?
Ms. DELAURO. You are for liberalizing trade, arent you?
Mr. KINGSTON. I am so devoted to my loyal opposition position
that I dont know that I would go along with the Chair on that particular question. But I would certainly
Ms. DELAURO. Except if we could sell chicken to Cuba.
Anyway, lets move on. I will try and get as manylet me just
rapid-fire stuff.
UNDER SECRETARY OF FOOD SAFETY
On the Under Secretary for Food Safety, Mr. Secretary, is there

a candidate currently being vetted to be nominated for this position?
Secretary VILSACK. Yes.
Ms. DELAURO. What is our timeline here?
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Secretary VILSACK. Madam Chair, the complexity has to do with
the arrangements that are necessary in order to allow this person
to do the job. And we are in the process of working through that
process. Short term.
Ms. DELAURO. I think it is imperative. I think you agree.
Secretary VILSACK. Dont disagree.
FOOD SAFETY RISK ASSESSMENT SCHEDULE
Ms. DELAURO. Food safety assessment schedule, you know, the

concern here is because we went through this risk-based effort that
we are not complying with what the IG said with regard to their
recommendations on risk-based. Why do you propose to do the food
safety assessments only once every 4 years?
Secretary VILSACK. You know, I dont know the answer to that
question.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. So if you can get back, I would just
Secretary VILSACK. Oh. I have been reminded that we are asking
for an increase in the assessment so that we can increase the number and the frequency.
Ms. DELAURO. So we can increase the number and frequency.
Okay. Anyway, we will talk further about that. I may have additional questions on that, because the frequency, I think, is critically
important.
AGRICULTURAL CREDIT INSURANCE FUND
Agriculture credit insurance front, let me just make a point on

this. Supplemental, $71 million for ACIF. This was after $20 million in the Recovery Act. The Congress was never notified that the
programs were going to run out of the funding mid-year, leaving
farmers without a source of credit.
Really, we would love a commitment from you that the Department will keep a better watch over these programs, notify the Congress when the program is seeing unprecedented demand and when
we are going to run out of funds mid-year.
Look, you know and I know these are programs that are the only
source of credit for some people right now who are struggling. So
let me just ask you, is the 2010 budget request sufficient to cover
the surge demand that the farm ownership and operating loan programs have been experiencing?
Secretary VILSACK. We are proposing an increase. Scott reminded
me that we are forecasting a year in advance. It is the best estimate that we have.
I will reassure the Chair we are in the process right now of having meetings with a number of our budget folks to make sure that
they are within budget. We are going to pay close attention to
thisto all budgets, not just this one.
FOOD SAFETY ASSESSMENT SCHEDULE
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. I just want to point out thatmy last question, with regard to the food safety assessment schedulea proposal to do the assessments once every 4 years was made by Bush
FSIS in its response to the OIG report.
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I am looking to a new administration with a stronger commitment to funding public health initiatives. So I want you to look at
why you are continuing to look at a 4-year proposal. And if it is
with regard toI want to really know if it is increased funding
that gets us stumped, because this is from a time past, in my view.
CONSERVATION FUNDING
Okay, let me juston the conservation funding, I have a couple

of questions here. You spoke tomaybe it was Mr. Lathamand
you said you were going to try to match the existing funding with
the increase in the enrollment, et cetera.
Is there a question here that there is a problem in the field? In
other words, that we do not havethat the issue becomes the delivery side of USDA and a field force that is able to do the job of
enrolling and, you know, of utilizing those funds at the rapid rate
that the Congress has talked about these efforts.
Secretary VILSACK. I am going to draw on my experience as a
governor to answer that question.
We tried to institute buffer strips into the State of Iowa. And
what I learned from that experience was that oftentimes when government comes to a farmer and says, We have a program that is
great for you, we want you to participate, oftentimes there is a little skepticism and cynicism about it. And so, what we tried to do
is to get a better marketing effort with farmer talking to farmer.
So it may very well be field, but it could also be just general skepticism or a lack of appreciation for precisely what the programs
provide. I dont know.
We do have a broad array of options for farmers. And one of the
things can also be that crop prices, commodity prices increase, and
you have a bumper year, and all of a sudden you are thinking
maybe you should take land out of conservation reserve and put it
into crop production, or maybe you need that additional acreage
and maybe conservation is not as profitable as growing a crop. It
could be a wide variety of explanations.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, I think weyou know, obviously, I think
that is a big issues for everyone on this committee, is these programs, so we will continue to have that conversation.
Secretary VILSACK. I think you all have made tremendous
progress, if you look at the number of acres that are involved.
Ms. DELAURO. Yeah. There is also an issue for me, but I will put
it on the record, in the last administration, the issue of what are
the programs that are most cost-effective, when Mr. Rey was here
and so forth. We have some of that language. I would like to get
that to you to get your take on what he thought was most cost-effective, in terms of some of the conservation programs. In any case,
I will get that to you.
Mr. KINGSTON. Rosa, will you share that answer? That would be
very interesting for the committee.
Ms. DELAURO. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. I would be happy to do that.
Mr. Bishop, do you have any further questions?
Mr. BISHOP. No, I dont.
Ms. DELAURO. Okay. Mr. Kingston.
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DIRECT FARM SUBSIDY PAYMENTS TO POLLUTERS
Let me justbecause I know you want to do what you need to

do and we are going to have to vote, as I said, shortly. This has
to do with the direct payments, which have already been addressed. But this is something I wanted to ask from the last hearing and never got to do it.
This was about farm subsidy payments to polluters. This was an
article, November 2008, Questionable Subsidy Payments to Polluters. The Federal Government has awarded millions of dollars
in subsidies to Oklahoma animal farms that have been fined for
violating State and Federal environmental laws. There are about
56 farms penalized by environmental regulators for excessive pollution, collected more than $2.5 million in subsidies in recent years.
Some farms have been fined and collected subsidies in the same
year. Others are repeat offenders, if you will, and they collect subsidies.
The paper said a dairy was subject of two Oklahoma Department
of Agriculture fines, 17 now closed U.S. EPA enforcement cases,
and at least one ongoing EPA case in 2001. For these violations,
the dairy was fined at least $350,000 for failing to comply with environmental laws. The dairy has received more than $880,000 in
USDA farm subsidies since the mid-1990s.
If we have farms that are violating State and Federal environmental quality laws, the taxpayer is being charged twice: illegally
polluting, and then they receive a farm support payment.
In a response, again, in a prior time, the notion was, well, these
are two separate things, you know, the pollution is one issue, the
farm subsidy payment is another. Fines and farm subsidies fall
into two distinct programs offered by two distinct agencies.
Do you agree that fines for polluting and subsidies should not affect one another? Should we be looking at this issue?
Secretary VILSACK. As you were explaining the circumstance, I
thought of all the ways in which you could potentially get yourself
crosswise with environmental laws running an agricultural production facility. And some of them can be relatively innocent. I mean,
they can be just circumstances; somebody just didnt do their job
on a particular day or whatever. And some can be quite intentional
and quite egregious.
I think you would have a very slippery slope if you start down
that track, because I am not quite sure where you stop. So what
if you havent filed a proper tax return, you havent reported all of
your income, does that disqualify you? What if you violate other
laws, other criminal laws, does that disqualify you?
I mean, I am not quite sureI think it is appropriate to keep
them separate. And if there is a problem with repeat violations,
then there are ways in which you can substantially charge that operation and you can, in some cases, shut it down.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, but USDA protects wetlands and highly
erodible soil by limiting subsidy payments to violators already.
Secretary VILSACK. Well, there is a direct connection, potentially,
there, because you are essentially providing resources for conservation and water quality, and you have somebody who is basically
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contaminating the water there. So I think there is a greater nexus
in that circumstance.
I am all for holding people accountable, and I am all for making
sure that environmental laws are strongly and strictly enforced. I
am just not sure that that is the right penalty.
Ms. DELAURO. Well, we are going to look at, and I know there
is a difference of opinion, but we are looking at direct payments,
which we are going to try to do something about. And the presumption thereand, look, I have been a supporter in that effort. I am
also a supporter of dealing with the IRS data in which you can deal
with this. But there has been no violation in that kind, potentially.
These are repeat offenders.
Secretary VILSACK. But just to give you a sense of this, I mean,
some of these operations have multiple locations, and some of them
have multiple business arrangements. In other words, there may
be a partnership here, and there may be a limited liability corporation over here, family farm corporation over here. That is extraordinarily complex, because each one of those entities may be receiving payments, and there may be one person who is common to both
of them, and that one person has a violation. Do you stop payments
on both operations or just the operation that was directly responsible for the violation? I mean
Ms. DELAURO. Let mebecause I think that this merits a greater discussion and conversation. If we can agree to look at this issue
of people who areand this comes out of a newspaper account, if
you will. And, you know, again, as I say, with repeat offenders,
somebody can make a mistake and, you know, not one-size-fits-all,
a cookie cutter. But if you continue to make the same mistake, and,
you know, the outcome is the same, there is no real, you know,
penalty.
What I would like to do is have you try to take a look at this
issue, if you would, and we will as well, and I will as well, to see
if there is, you know, something here that makes it clear to people
that if you are going to violate the law here and do it repeatedly,
well, then you cant just come out on the other side of this.
Secretary VILSACK. I know, in Iowa, when we had habitual violator laws, we basically could shut the operation down. That seems,
to me, to be the more appropriate
Ms. DELAURO. Well, it may be. And that is why I am saying we
need to talk about it. But that is not happening. It is not happening. The only thing that is happening is more subsidies are
going out. That is the result, not shutting it down.
So what I will do, Mr. Secretary, is I think I have more questions, but I will, you know, just submit them for the record. And
they have to do with COOL and, you know, some other areas. And
I know some of thesethe GIPSA stuff, just a couple of questions
on that, but I understand the nature of that, for the stockyards.
So I think, with thatany of my colleagues, anything else? Okay.
Thank you very, very much, Mr. Secretary.
And I want to go back to my original comments. I think this is
a budget for this effort that we are very excited about. I want to
stipulate that, and look forward to really working with you on a
number of these efforts. I think, you know, the budget reinforces
the priorities of this portfolio in a way that I think we can build
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on and meet the needs and the challenges of the people who are
out there.
So thank you very much.
Secretary VILSACK. Thank you.
Ms. DELAURO. The hearing is adjourned.
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Insert graphic folio 798/851 53443B.085
433
WITNESSES
Page
rfrederick on DSKD9S0YB1PROD with HEARING
Bordallo, Hon. M. Z .................................................................................................

Brownell, K. D .........................................................................................................
Glauber, Joe .............................................................................................................
Hall, Hon. John ........................................................................................................
Kilili, Hon. Gregorio ................................................................................................
OConnor, Thomas ...................................................................................................
Parker, Lynn ............................................................................................................
Putnam, Hon. Adam ................................................................................................
Steele, W. S........................................................................................................... 135,
Vilsack, Hon. Thomas .......................................................................................... 135,
(i)
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INDEX
Domestic Nutrition Programs
Page
Best Practices of Local Purchases ..........................................................................

Child Nutrition Initiatives ......................................................................................
Child Nutrition Reauthorization........................................................................... 97,
Competitive Foods ...................................................................................................
Conflicting Programs ...............................................................................................
Consolidating School Lunch Programs ..................................................................
Environmental Issues ..............................................................................................
Food Marketing to Children ...................................................................................
Fruits and Vegetables in the Nutrition Assistance Programs .............................
Fruit and Vegetable Program .................................................................................
Healthy Incentives Pilot ..........................................................................................
IOM Nutrition Standards .......................................................................................
Nutritional Quality of Commodity Programs ........................................................
Nutrition Education .................................................................................................
Obesity and School Nutrition Programs ................................................................
Opening Remarks, Chairwoman DeLauro .............................................................
Opening Statement, Witnesses ...............................................................................
Organic Foods ..........................................................................................................
Overpayments in School Meal Programs ...............................................................
Questions for the Record Submitted by Representative Boyd .............................
Questions for the Record Submitted by Representative Kaptur .........................
SNAP Payment Frequency ......................................................................................
SNAP Purchases ......................................................................................................
Vending Machines in Schools .................................................................................
Wellness Policies ......................................................................................................
WIC Food Package ...................................................................................................
Written Statement, Mr. OConnor ..........................................................................
Written Statement, Dr. Brownell ...........................................................................
Written Statement, Ms. Parker ..............................................................................
109
119
120
90
113
86
101
97
89
117
103
94
117
43
92
1
2
92
82
134
122
104
93
114
99
115
6
22
31
Department of Agriculture Hearing (Secretary of Agriculture)

2008 Farm Bill Funding ..........................................................................................
502 Direct Loans ......................................................................................................
Alternative Energy Initiatives ................................................................................
Animal Identification ...............................................................................................
Agricultural Concentration .....................................................................................
Agriculture Research Station ..................................................................................
Child Nutrition Programs ................................................................................... 179,
Civil Rights Actions .................................................................................................
Civil Rights Policy ...................................................................................................
Closing Remarks ......................................................................................................
(iii)
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192
209
227
197
225
204
183
144
230
iv
Page
Conserving Agricultural Property ..........................................................................

Dietary Guidelines ...................................................................................................
Developing Energy Markets ....................................................................................
Earmark Elimination/Program Terminations .......................................................
Elimination of Lower Priority Programs ...............................................................
Elimination of Congressional Earmarks ................................................................
Emerald Ash Borer ..................................................................................................
Farm Bill Pest and Disease Funding .....................................................................
Farm and Non-farm Income Tests .........................................................................
Farm Storage Facility Loans ..................................................................................
Farm Subsidy Payments to Polluters ....................................................................
Farm Payments ........................................................................................................
Farm Payments Limits ...........................................................................................
FNS Erroneous Payment Study .............................................................................
Food-Borne Illnesses ................................................................................................
Food Recalls .............................................................................................................
Food Safety and Security ........................................................................................
Formula Funding .....................................................................................................
Increase in Ethanol Blend Rate .............................................................................
Information Technology ....................................................................................... 226,
Local Farms ..............................................................................................................
Local Specialty Crops ..............................................................................................
McGovern-Dole Feeding Program ..........................................................................
Market Development Activities in Cuba ................................................................
Mexican Trucking Pilot Program ...........................................................................
National Animal Identification Program ...............................................................
New Technologies ....................................................................................................
Opening Remarks, Chairwoman DeLauro .............................................................
Opening Statement, Ranking Member Kingston ..................................................
Opening Statement, Secretary Vilsack ..................................................................
Peanut and Cotton Loan Programs ........................................................................
Pistachios ..................................................................................................................
Questions for the Record Submitted by Representative Bishop ..........................
Questions for the Record Submitted by Ranking Member Kingston ..................
Questions for the Record Submitted by Chairwoman DeLauro ...........................
Risk-based Assessment Pilot Project ......................................................................
Rural America Initiatives .......................................................................................
Rural Broadband .................................................................................................. 185,
Rural Energy for America .......................................................................................
Rural Housing Application Backlog .......................................................................
Rural Housing ..........................................................................................................
Rural Water and Wastewater Systems ..................................................................
School Food Purchases ............................................................................................
School Lunch Programs ...........................................................................................
School Lunch Program Overpayments ...................................................................
School Vending Machines .......................................................................................
Small Farm Producers ............................................................................................
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program ............................................ 189, 220,
Supplemental Revenue Assistance Program .........................................................
Trade Issues .............................................................................................................
USDA Economic Stimulus Funding .......................................................................
USDA Key Priorities ...............................................................................................
Urban Food Deserts .................................................................................................
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190
186
208
195
193
201
206
207
203
229
181
202
195
176
178
196
198
199
228
212
224
214
214
226
221
142
135
137
138
184
177
255
252
266
241
231
173
183
223
219
199
211
192
216
187
206
223
191
225
228
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139
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v
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Urban and Rural Development ...............................................................................

User Fee Proposal ....................................................................................................
Vending Machines in Schools .................................................................................
Written Statement, Secretary Vilsack ...................................................................
213
193
210
145
Testimony of Members of Congress

Testimony of Representative Bordallo ...................................................................
Testimony of Representative Hall (NY) .................................................................
Testimony of Representative Putnam ....................................................................
Testimony of Representative Sablan ......................................................................
Written Statement, Representative Bordallo ........................................................
Written Statement, Representative Hall (NY) ......................................................
Written Statement, Representative Putnam .........................................................
Written Statement, Representative Sablan ...........................................................
279
298
305
290
283
300
307
292
Secretary of Agriculture
2010 Proposed Cuts .................................................................................................
Agricultural Credit Insurance Fund ......................................................................
Agricultural Production ...........................................................................................
Agriculture and Food Research Initiative .............................................................
Assistant Secretary for Administration .................................................................
Broadband Infrastructure Investments .................................................................
Broadband Maps ......................................................................................................
Broadband Program Budget Request .....................................................................
Civil Rights ........................................................................................................... 328,
Conservation Funding .............................................................................................
Conservation Program Cuts ....................................................................................
Crop Insurance .........................................................................................................
Direct Farm Subsidy Payments to Polluters .........................................................
Effects of H1N1 on the Pork Industry ...................................................................
Environmental Services Markets ...........................................................................
Factory Farms ..........................................................................................................
Farm Safety Net ......................................................................................................
Food Safety ...............................................................................................................
Food Safety Assessment Schedule ..........................................................................
Food Safety Inspections ...........................................................................................
Food Safety Working Group ....................................................................................
Food Safety Regulations ..........................................................................................
Hunger-Free Community Grants Request .............................................................
Indirect Land Use ....................................................................................................
International Food Assistance ............................................................................ 326,
Liberalizing Trade with Cuba .................................................................................
Market Access Program ..........................................................................................
National Animal Identification System...................................................... 361, 376,
National Leafy Green Marketing Program ............................................................
Nutrition Assistance ................................................................................................
Nutrition Programs .................................................................................................
Opening Statement, Chairwoman DeLauro ..........................................................
Opening Statement, Ranking Member Kingston ..................................................
Opening Statement, Secretary Vilsack ..................................................................
Plant Pest Management Practices .........................................................................
Presidents FY2010 Budget .....................................................................................
Questions for the Record Submitted by Representative Farr ..............................
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Recovery Act Implementation .................................................................................
Renewable Energy ...................................................................................................
Research ...................................................................................................................
Research Earmarks Funding Cuts .........................................................................
Rural Broadband Programs ....................................................................................
Rural Development ..................................................................................................
Rural Single Family Housing .................................................................................
RUS (ARRA) Broadband Program ..........................................................................
School Nutrition Programs .....................................................................................
Trade .........................................................................................................................
Undersecretary of Food Safety ...............................................................................
USDA Programs Savings ........................................................................................
WIC ...........................................................................................................................
WIC Contingency Fund ...........................................................................................
Written Statement, Thomas Vilsack ......................................................................
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House Hearing, 111TH Congress - Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations For 2010

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House Hearing, 111TH Congress - Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations For 2010

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AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD

AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED

JACK KINGSTON, Georgia

MARTHA FOLEY, LESLIE BARRACK, CLIFF ISENBERG, and MATT SMITH,

Domestic Nutrition Programs ..............................................

smartinez on DSKB9S0YB1PROD with HEARING

Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations

VerDate Nov 24 2008

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PART 3AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION,

AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD

JACK KINGSTON, Georgia

MARTHA FOLEY, LESLIE BARRACK, CLIFF ISENBERG, and MATT SMITH,

Domestic Nutrition Programs ..............................................

Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations

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JERRY LEWIS, California

BEVERLY PHETO, Clerk and Staff Director

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AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD

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There is no magic bullet to solving the epidemic of overweight

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