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Fajardo, Puerto Rico, October 16, 2007
Carlos Videla (Chair)
Domingo J. Carreira (Secretary)
Mario Chiorino
Lawrence C. Novak
Akthem Al-Manaseer
Marwan Daye
Walter Dilger
John Gardner
Will Hansen
Hani Nassif

Mario Sassone
Nakin Suksawang
Mauricio Lpez
Stuart Alexander
Michele Fabio Granata
John Robert
Salah Altoubat
Andy Scanlon

Opening of the Meeting and Welcome

The meeting was called to order by Videla at 2:10 PM, who welcomed the attendees to the
The following voting members offered apologies for not being able to attend the meeting: Zdenek
Bazant, Ian Robertson, and Jason Weiss.
Meeting attendees introduced themselves.
Copies of the following documents were distributed:
Agenda for this meeting
Minutes of the Atlanta meeting
Attendance list
Committee Roster (Attachment A)
Ballots Results to the request by TAC to reapprove the document ACI209R-92 "Prediction of
Creep, Shrinkage and Temperature Effects in Concrete Structures" for its inclusion in the
MCP (Attachment B).


Next meeting will be on Monday, March 31, 2007 at the Hyatt Regency Century Plaza in Los
Angeles, CA.
Changes in membership:

The chair informed that there are no changes in voting membership.

ACI sent official notification to the Chairman for the appointment of Sungjin Bae, Susan
E. Bowers and Indrajit Ray as new associate members.

The committee roster was circulated and changes to the Postal Code of Al-Manaseer, telephone
numbers of Gardner and Videla, and e-mail address of Carreira were reported (see Attachment A).
Other announcements:
Al-Manaseer addressed the Committe asking ACI members to endorse and promote
attendance to Concreep 8 from Sept 30 to October 2, 2008 at Ise-Shima, Japan.

ACI 209 Committee Sessions at the Fall Convention in Fajardo, P.R.

Novak moved to congratulate Mario Chiorino and John Gardner for their work in the well
organized and well attended, as well as for quality of the presentations in the three Sessions of
Structural Implications of Concrete Creep and Concrete Shrinkage, on Monday October 15 and
Tuesday October 16, 2007. Videla seconded. All members present voted in favor of
congratulating Chiorino and Gardner for their work.

Approval of Minutes from Spring 2007 Meeting in Atlanta, GA.

Videla asked for review and approval of the minutes. Spelling of Al-Manaseer name was
corrected. Gardner moved, seconded by Al-Manaseer, to approve the minutes of the Atlanta 2007
meeting. All members present voted in favor of approving the Atlanta meeting minutes.

Current action updates.

Status of reports:
- Update of ACI 209.1R-05 Report on Factors Affecting Shrinkage and Creep of
Hardened Concrete.
Videla informed that no update was available on the revision of ACI 209.1R-05, since
McDonald could not attend the meeting.
- ACI 209.2R-XX Modeling and Calculation of Shrinkage and Creep of Hardened
Videla informed that the only three pending items in this reports are:
To include CEB90-99 models.
To express all the four models in SI units and US customary units.
To include numerical examples that will be prepared by Carreira once Videla finish the
units revision.
Videla suggested that the document, as revised to satisfy TAC, would be forwarded to TAC
in November

ACI 209.3R-XX Time Dependent Effects in Concrete Structures.

Dilger informed that on Monday, October 15, 2007 there was an informal meeting attended
by Bazant, Chiorino, and Dilger to discuss the issues in this report on which they disagree.
They reached an agreement with Bazant on his contribution to the present document with
not previously included ideas not previously included on complex structures.
Dilger and Chiorino agreed on the architecture of the document and to substantially reduce
the document to at most 120 pages by sending some of the material to Appendices.
Following Dilger presentation, Chiorino discussed the content and structure of the
document from 3:10 PM to 3:40 PM (see Attachment C). A new section on the effects of
creep and shrinkage on high-rise structures will be included. This section will be prepared
by Carreira.
Videla informed of the availability on the ACI 209 Committee Web Site of the latest
versions of the ACI 209.3R draft documents prepared by Dilger and by Chiorino and

- Web Letter Ballot on Re-approval of ACI 209R-92(97), Prediction of Creep,

Shrinkage and Temperature Effects in Concrete Structures.
Videla informed that the results of this Web letter ballot were, 14 Affirmative, two
Affirmative with Comments and two Negative votes. This vote meets Rule and the 2/3
Rule. The negatives votes were from Bazant and Gardner.
The negatives votes from Bazant and Gardner were discussed in detail since they were
based on the idea that the existing document is outdated and should not be re-approved and
The arguments for its re-approval were that:
* The Committee has failed for years to produce a revised document, and ACI 209 will
loose its spot in the Manual of Concrete Practice, MCP, and
* The Committee will finish ACI 209.2R-XX Report Modeling and Calculation of
Shrinkage and Creep of Hardened Concrete, approved by TAC this year 2007 and ACI
209.3R-XX Report Time Dependent Effects in Concrete Structures, by next year
Novak moved and Chiorino seconded to find Bazant and Gardner non-persuasive with the
understanding that the Committee will proceed appropriately with the completion of the inprocess ACI 209.2R-XX report by November 2007, and ACI 209.3R-XX report in year
Chairman Videla called for the vote. Eight voted Affirmative, one voted Negative, and
there were no Abstentions. The motion passes. The Negative vote was from Gardner.

It is remained to all members of the Committee for their cooperation to achieve the goals
implied by this vote.

New Business future action

No other business

Other Business

Dilger addressed the Committee on the Palau Bridge collapse. He stressed the importance of
collecting data on the design, geometry and properties of the bridge and its materials, as well as
the collapse mechanism, to analyze the collapse, its causes and how to prevent it from happening
again. The purpose is to make available the knowledge learned from this collapse to the
profession, as an instrument of learning.
Questions to ACI 209 posted by William Sherman and by Ahmad Rahimian and answers given.
The question by William Sherman was: According to Figure 2.3, a concrete mix with 564
lb/yd3 and with a w/c ratio of 0.45 would fall into the region noted as "outside range of
practicable concrete mixes". This seems contrary to normal practice. Perhaps the chart does
not account for the use of WRAs, but it would be helpful to clarify the discrepancy between the
chart and common mixes used.
Videla explained the answer to Bill Sherman prepared by McDonald:
Figure 2.3 was obtained directly from the paper "The Properties of Concrete Mixes" by
Blanks et al, published by ACI in April 1940. In Figure 4 of that study, the graph includes the
terms "outside the range of workable mixtures." Thus, the figure is a copy of an existing
figure. In 1940, a concrete mixture with 564 lb/yd 3 of cement and a w/c ratio of 0.45 would
have been considered not workable. ACI-209 will make sure that updates either remove the
wording or include a paragraph outlining that the work was conducted prior to the regular
use of water reducers.
The question by Ahmad Rahimian to S. K. Gosh received though Ronald G. Burg on October
1st, 2007 was: Dear SK, it seems there is typo in the ACI209 Eq. 2-9 & 2-10. This is the time
function for shrinkage, however the eq. is not a function of v/s (Vol. to Surface ratio) even
though section 2.5.5 explain that it should be. I check that against your paper with Fintel &
Iyengar and noticed your equation correctly accounts for it. I am asking you since you are
part the ACI 209, any comments?
The answer prepared by Carreira and Videla was:
Equations (2-9) and (2-10) apply to Standard Conditions when testing concrete for creep and
shrinkage since they are under Section 2.4 Recommended Creep and Shrinkage Equations for
Standard Conditions. In this case all the correction factors under Section 2.5 Correction Factors
for Conditions other Than the Standard Concrete Composition are equal to 1.0. They can not be
taken by themselves isolated from the rest of Chapter 2. They must be applied as recommended in ACI
209 Report and shown in the example. Please, refer to second paragraph in Section 2.4.

Therefore, they are OK as shown which is as developed by Dr. D. Branson.

Also for conditions other than the standards, Section 2.4 of ACI209R-92 Report states:The
shape and size effect can be totally considered on the time-ratio, without the need for
correction factors. That is, in terms of the shrinkage-half-time sh, as given by Eq. (A-3) by
replacing t by t/sh in Eq. (A-1). Also by taking = 1.0 and f = 26.0 exp[1.42 x l0-2 (V/S)] in Eq. (A1), where V/S is the volume to surface ratio, in mm. For V/S in inches use f = 26.0 exp[0.36(V/S)].
References 61, 89, 92, 98 and 101 consider the effect of the shape and size on both the time-ratio
(time-dependent development) and on the coefficients affecting the ultimate (in time) value of creep
and shrinkage.



A motion to adjourn was submitted by Videla and seconded by Chiorino All members present
voted to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 4:05 PM.
A. Committee Roster (10/16/07)
B. Committee 209 Web Letter Ballot
C. Chiorinos presentation.


Committee Roster (10/16/07)


Videla, Carlos C (Chair)

Pontificia Univ Catolica de Chile
Dept of Const Engrg & Management
Vicuna Mackenna 4860
Casilla 306 / Correo 22
Santiago, 6904411 Chile
Phone: 56-2-3544245
Fax: 56-23-544806
ACI Member

Carreira, Domingo J (Secretary)

Illinois Inst of Technology
6014 N Campbell Ave
Chicago, IL 60659-4107
Phone: (773)338-4238
Fax: (773)338-4238
ACI Member

Voting Members

Al-Manaseer, Akthem A
San Jose State University
Dept of Civil & Env Eng
1 Washington Sq
San Jose, CA 95192-0083
Phone: (408) 924-3860
Fax: (408) 924-4004
ACI Member

Bazant, Zdenek P
Northwestern University
Department of Civil Engrg
Evanston, IL 60208-0001
Phone: (847) 491-4025
Fax: (847) 491-1078 E-mail:
ACI Member

5400 Old Orchard Rd
Skokie, IL 60077-1030
Phone: (847) 972-3050
Fax: (847) 965-6541

ACI Member

Chiorino, Mario Alberto

Politecnico di Torino
Viale Mattioli 39/Architettura
Torino, I-10125 Italy
Phone: 39-11-5644864
Fax: 39-11-5644999
ACI Member

Daye, Marwan A
PO Box 31699
Al-Khobar, 31952 Saudi Arabia
Phone: 96-65-05476793
Fax: 96-63-8811965
ACI Member

Dilger, Walter H
University of Calgary
2500 24th Ave NW
Calgary, AB T2N 1N4 Canada
Phone: (403)220-5829
Fax: (403)282-7026
ACI Member

Gardner, Noel J
University of Ottawa
CE Dept
PO Box 450 Station A
Ottawa, ON K1N-6N5 Canada
Phone: (613) 745-2031
Fax: (613) 562-5173
ACI Member

Hansen, Will
University of Michigan
2330 G G Brown Building
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Phone: (734)763-9660
Fax: (734)764-4292
ACI Member

Marzouk, Hesham
Memorial Univ of Newfoundland
Engrg-Applied Science Faculty
St John's, NL A1B 3X5 Canada
Phone: (709)737-7923

Fax: (709)737-4042
ACI Member

McDonald, David B
USG Corporation
700 North Highway 45
Libertyville, IL 60048-1296
Phone: (847)970-5262
Fax: 3122141466
ACI Member

Nassif, Hani H A
Rutgers University
Civil Engineering Department
623 Bowser Rd
Piscataway, NJ 08854-8014
Phone: (732) 445-4414
Fax: (732) 445-8268
ACI Member

Novak, Lawrence C
Skidmore Owings & Merrill LLP
29W043 Donald Avenue
West Chicago, IL 60185
Phone: (312)360-4087
Fax: (312)360-4546
ACI Member

Rieder, Klaus Alexander

W R Grace Const Products
62 Whittemore Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02140
Phone: (617)498-4465
Fax: (617)498-4360
ACI Member

Robertson, Ian
University of Hawaii
Dept of Civil and Environmental Engrgng
2540 Dole St Room 383
Honolulu, HI 96822-2303
Phone: (808)956-6536
Fax: (808)956-5014
ACI Member

Sakata, Kenji
Okayama University
Dept of Enviromental and Civil Engr

2-chome 1-1 Tsushima-Naka

Okayama, 700-8530 Japan
Phone: 81-86-2518155
Fax: 81-86-2518155
ACI Member

Weiss, W Jason
Purdue University
CE School
550 Stadium Mall Dr
West Lafayette, IN 47907-2051
Phone: (765) 494-2215
Fax: (765) 496-1364
ACI Member

Consulting Members

Bentley Systems Inc
Ste 300
1600 Riviera Ave
Walnut Creek, CA 94596-3570
Phone: (925) 274-7818
Fax: (925) 933-1920

US Corps of Engineers
209 Cobblestone Dr
Vicksburg, MS 39183-8646
Phone: (601) 529-1774

Huo,X Sharon
Tennessee Tech University
PO Box 5015
Cookeville, TN 38505
Phone: (931)372-3454
Fax: (931)372-6239

University of Queensland
Department of Civil Engineering
Brisbane, QLD 4072 Australia
Phone: 61-73-3653899
Fax: 61-73-3654599

Associate Members

Ababneh, Ayman N
Clarkson University
Dept of Civil Engineering
8 Clarkson Ave - Box 5710
Potsdam, NY 13699-5710
Phone: (315) 268-4435
Fax: (315) 268-7985
ACI Member

Alexander, Stuart J
WSP Group
Buchanan House
24-30 Holborn
London, EC1N 2HS United Kingdom
Phone: 00-44-2073145032
Fax: 00-44-2073145001
ACI Member

Aydin, Abdulkadir Cuneyt

Ataturk University
Muhendislik Fak Ins Muh Bol
Erzurum, 25240 Turkey
Phone: 90-442-2314781
Fax: 90-442-2360957
ACI Member

Bae, Sungjin
Bechtel Company
6955 Castle Court / Suite 104
Frederick, MD 21703-6438
Phone: (512) 228-9837
ACI Member

Bowers, Susan E
Virginia Tech
Via Dept of CEE
200 Patton Hall
Blacksburg, VA 24061-0001
Phone: (570) 220-5093 Fax: (540) 231-7532
ACI Member

Cedolin, Luigi
Politecnico di Milano/Dept DI
P Za Leonardo da Vinci 32
Milano, 20133 Italy
Phone: 39-02-23994203
Fax: 39-02-23994220

ACI Member

Chern, Jenn-Chuan
Natl Taiwan University
Dept of Civil Engineering
Taipei, Taiwan ROC
Phone: 886-2-23637408
Fax: 886-2-23622975
ACI Member

Cortnik, Bryan G
Ste 150
260 Sheridan Ave
Palo Alto, CA 94306-2008
Phone: (650) 617-5930 - 240
Fax: (650) 617-5932
ACI Member

D'Ambrosia, Matthew Dominick

5400 Old Orchard Rd
Skokie, IL 60077-1030
Phone: 800-522-2285 ext 3264
Fax: 847-965-6541
ACI Member

Day, Robert L
University Of Calgary
2500 University Dr NW
Calgary, AB T2N 1N4 Canada
Phone: (403) 220-7489
Fax: (403) 282-7026
ACI Member

Earney, T Patrick
Trabue Hansen and Hinshaw
1901 Pennsylvania Dr
Columbia, MO 65202-1996
Phone: (573) 268-2615
Fax: (573) 814-1128
ACI Member

Fu, Chung C
University of Maryland
14414 Coral Gables Way
North Potomac, MD 20878-3802
Phone: (301)405-2011

Fax: (301)314-9129
ACI Member

Imamoto, Keiichi
Ashikaga Inst of Technology
268-1 Oh-maecho
Tochigi Pref
Ashikaga, 326-8558 Japan
Phone: 81-28-4620609
Fax: 81-28-4624235
ACI Member

Issa, Mohsen A
University Of Illinois
2095 ERF/MC246
842 W Taylor St
Chicago, IL 60607-7039
Phone: (312) 996-3432
Fax: (312) 996-2426
ACI Member

Lange, David A
University of Illinois
Civil and Environmental Engineering
1116 NCEL MC-250
205 N Mathews Ave
Urbana, IL 61801-2350
Phone: (217) 333-4816
Fax: (217) 333-9464
ACI Member

Leland, Kenneth B
GE Energy
M/D 100D
PO Box 648
Greenville, SC 29602-0648
Phone: (864)254-5075
Fax: (864)254-2555
ACI Member

Lopez, Mauricio
Pontificia Univ Catolica de Chile
School of Civil Engineering
Av Vicuna Mackenna 4860
Macul Casilla 306 / Correo 22
Santiago, 6904411 Chile
Phone: 56-23-544643
Fax: 56-2-354-4806

ACI Member

Mueller, Harald S
Universitat Karlsruhe (TH)
Am Fasanengarten
Karlsruhe, D-76131 Germany
Phone: 01-10-3081040
Fax: 01-10-3081041090
ACI Member

Neville, Adam M
24 Gun Wharf
130 Wapping High Street
London, E1W 2NH United Kingdom
Phone: 44-17-12651087
Fax: 44-20-72651087
ACI Member

Ray, Indrajit
West Virginia University
Dept of Civil and Env Engrg
Engrg Science Building - Room 611D
Evansdale Drive
Morgantown, WV 26506-6103
Phone: (304) 293-3031 -2619
Fax: (304) 293-7109
ACI Member

Reda Taha, Mahmoud M

University of New Mexico
Civil Engineering Dept
MSC01 1070
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
Phone: (505) 277-1258
Fax: (505) 277-1988
ACI Member

Sassone, Mario
Politecnico di Torino
Viale Mattioli 39
Torino, 10126 Italy
Phone: 00-39-115644868
Fax: 00-39-115644999
ACI Member

Shiu, K Nam
Walker Restoration Consultants
505 Davis Rd

Elgin, IL 60123-1303
Phone: (847) 697-2640
Fax: (847) 697-7439
ACI Member

Suksawang, Nakin
Florida International University
Civil and Environmental Engineering
# EC3602
10555 W Flagler St
Miami, FL 33174-1630
Phone: (305) 348-0110 Fax: (305) 348-2802 E-mail:
ACI Member


Committee 209 Web Letter Ballot

Closed Ballot
(Record of original votes as of closing date)
Ballot Title/ID: Re-approval of ACI 209R-92 (97)
This ballot is to reapprove ACI 209R-92 (97) "Prediction of Creep,
Shrinkage and Temperature Effects in Concrete Structures".
The Technical Activities Committee urges committees to either reapprove,
revise, or withdraw documents that are older than eight years.
ACI 209 Committee should still keep the old ACI 209R-92 (97) until the
three standing along documents that will replace it are published.
The current status of those three documents are as follows:
- ACI 209.1R-05 Report on Factors Affecting Shrinkage and Creep of
Hardened Concrete has been published
- The new ACI 209.2R-XX Modeling and Calculation of Shrinkage and
Creep in Hardened Concrete is in the process of final approval by TAC,
- ACI 209.3R-XX Time Dependent Effects in Concrete Structures is in
draft format.
Ballot Type: Letter Ballot
Start Date: 9/13/2007
End Date: 10/13/2007

Ballot Items:
Item #

Item Description
Reapproval of ACI 209R-92.

Voting Members:




w/ Neg.









Obsolete document, 35 years old. It is better to have

no ACI recommendation. Engineers will be misled to
think this procedure is still up-to-date and skip looking
for more realistic procedures available in the literature.

The approval process in ACI (committee plus TAC) is so

lengthy even the new documents are based upon
research/work several years old. We should not




reapprove ACI 209-92 which was, effectively, identical

to the previous versions of ACI 209-72, ACI 209-78



While the document is outdated by the more recent

publications, it is unlikely that we will have replacement
information for the structural effects of shrinkage and
creep within the next 2-3 years. For this reason alone, I
believe we should keep the document active.

Affirmative with the understand the committee will

proceed appropriately with the completion of the new







Weiss,W Jason

Preliminary Voting Summary:

There are 18 committee members eligible to vote.
Passage of an item requires resolution of any negative votes. Passage of an item also requires that
the number of affirmative votes be at least that given by the 1/2 and 2/3 rules. Please refer to the
ACI Technical Committeee Manual for additional information on balloting procedures.
Item # Affirmative





The 1/2

The 2/3

Item Meets Item Meets