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The Saltwater crocodile, and all that it implies (crocodiles part III)
By Darren Naish | June 18, 2012 |
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Crocodiles of the World part III! Part I is here; part II is here.

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Observations

The Saltw ater croc 'Maximo', photographed at St Augustine Alligator Farm. Image in public domain.

The Saltwater crocodile Crocodylus porosus, also known as the Estuarine

crocodile, Indopacific crocodile or Saltie, is one of the worlds most famous
crocodile species, probably being second in line after the Nile croc C.
niloticus. Part of the reason this species is so well known to the public is
that it often features in films and on TV; its also famous because it can be
large or very large, because its a capable macropredator of big mammals, including

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humans, and because its at home in marine habitats as well as terrestrial ones.

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Observations

As is well known, there are stories of

Salties exceeding 8 m, 9 m and even 10
m in total length (a specimen killed in
Bangladesh in 1840 was said to be
10.05 m long). It shouldnt be assumed
that these sizes are impossible
maybe individuals did reach them in
prehistoric or historic times but the
maximum lengths of authenticated
individuals have been about 6.2 m (for
the Fly River 1982 specimen and the
Mary River animal from the 1980s).
Such large animals are in the modern
world exceptional, and a big adult
male Saltie is more typically between 4
m and 5 m long.

Did Modern HumansNot Environmental

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A tree-ring record player

Incidentally, the thing often said about

crocodilians exhibiting indeterminate
growth and growing continually
throughout life is probably not true.
Determinate growth has now been
Vertically lunging Saltie. Specifically, an individual know n
demonstrated for the American
as Stumpy (look closely), photographed in the Adelaide
River, Northern Territory. Photo by J. Patrick Fischer; in
alligator Alligator mississippiensis
the public domain.
(Woodward et al. 2011) and is likely
present across Crocodylia.
Determinate growth is also known for various turtles, snakes, lizards and tuatara.
Saltwater crocs often frequent estuaries, lagoons and mangroves, but animals in some
populations spend some or all of their time at sea. Extralimital records from the Cocos
Islands southwest of Sumatra, from Fiji, and even from 48 km north of North Cape in
New Zealand (Steel 1989) demonstrate an ability to travel far out to sea. Given this
ability to live in the ocean and travel so far, why hasnt the species spread further?
Maybe it has, since a skull from the Seychelles show that it has occasionally moved
west across the Indian Ocean to within just 1500 km of the African coast (Gerlach &
Canning 1993). How far east have they travelled? Ill leave that one to the
cryptozoologists Anyway, recent satellite tagging work has shown that Saltwater
crocs exploit sea-surface currents when travelling at sea a behaviour that became
tagged as surfing in the popular media and that this exploitation of marine currents
is an important bit of dispersal behaviour in this species (Campbell et al. 2010).

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Saltw ater croc head; note the absence of large scutes in the
region immediately behind the back of the head. Image by H.
Krisp, licensed under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported
license.

Saltwater crocodiles are one of

the easiest crocodile species to
identify, mostly because they
(normally) entirely lack large
scutes between the cervical
shield and the back of the head.
[Adjacent image by Holger
Krisp, Ulm, Germany.] In
addition, an obvious gap is also
present between the cervical
and dorsal shields, and small,
triangular scutes are present
between the posterior edges of

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license.

the large, transversely

arranged scutes in the dorsal
shield (Ross & Mayer 1983). This combination isnt present in any other species, and
its a reduced compliment compared to whats present in most other crocodiles.
Elsewhere in living crocs, a reduced osteoderm compliment is also present in the
American crocodile C. acutus. Its probably not coincidental that this is also a species
with a strong preference for swimming at sea.

Saltw ater crocs, photographed in captivity by Dave Hone. One of the animals is noticeably overw eight.

The evolving view of crocodile phylogeny once again

We saw in previous articles that
crocodiles have often been
imagined to consist of distinct
Indopacific and New World
assemblages, with the Nile
crocodile being a close relative
of the New World assemblage.
Within this (morphology-based)
framework, the Saltie is a
member of the Indopacific
assemblage, and thus close to
the Freshwater crocodile C.
johnstoni, Philippine crocodile
C. mindorensis and New Guinea
crocodile C. novaeguineae
(Brochu 2000a, b).
However, molecular work has
indicated that things may
A more complex version of the crocodile cladogram, now w ith
actually be more complicated,
the 'porosus clade' closer to the Nile croc + New World
assemblage clade than is the 'reduced' Indopacific assemblage
with the Indopacific assemblage
clade. Based mostly on Oaks (2011). See below for larger
version.
being non-monophyletic.
Rather than being closest to the
Freshwater croc and so on, some authors have reported a close affinity between the
Saltie and the Mugger (e.g., Densmore & Owen 1989, Gatesy & Amato 2008); others
have advocated a sister-group relationship between the Saltie and the Siamese
crocodile (McAliley et al. 2006, Meganathan et al. 2010); and yet others find a close
relationship between the Saltie and a Siamese crocodile + Mugger clade (Man et al.
2011, Oaks 2011). On balance, it does seem that the Saltwater crocodile is closest to
the Mugger and/or the Siamese crocodile. Purely for convenience, Ill call this the

porosus clade.
With the three members of the porosus clade separated from the remainder of the
Indopacific assemblage, were left with a reduced Indopacific assemblage as
mentioned last time. Is the porosus clade closer to the Nile croc + New World
assemblage clade than is the reduced Indopacific assemblage? (as per Oaks 2011).
Or is the reduced Indopacific assemblage closer to the Nile croc + New World
assemblage clade than is the porosus clade? (as in McAliley et al. 2006). Were not
sure more work is needed.
Anyway, what we do know has some interesting implications. Firstly, it doesnt seem
that Australias two native crocs the Saltwater and Freshwater crocodile are all
that close phylogenetically.

Larger version of simplified cladogram show n above. Photos (top to bottom) by Mo Hassan, Davric, Herbert
Ponting, Dave Hone, Naish, W ilfried Berns. Image of New Guinea crocodile (icon for 'reduced' Indopacific
assemblage) licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Germany license.

Secondly, given that most phylogenetic analyses find the crocodiles of southern Asia
and Australasia to be outside the clade that includes the Nile crocodile and the New
World assemblage, an Asian-Australasian/Indopacific centre of origin for crocodiles
currently looks more likely for Crocodylus (Oaks 2011) than the African origin
favoured traditionally. Then again, Osteolaemus and Mecistops are African (as are
other, fossil, osteolaemines), and there are fossil members of Crocodylus in Africa too,
like the Miocene C. checchiai and the Plio-Pleistocene C. anthropophagus and
C. thorbjarnarsoni (Brochu et al. 2010, Brochu & Storrs 2012) (note that other

alleged African species of Crocodylus like C. gariepensis from the early Miocene of
the Namibia/South Africa border and C. pigotti from the early Miocene of Kenya
are not actually within Crocodylus). Is it that all African members of Crocodylus
invaded the continent following origination in Asia or Australasia? Or might it still be
possible that Crocodylus began its history in Africa and/or Asia? Well come back to
this issue again in a later article.
If there is a porosus clade as discussed above, the fact that Muggers and Siamese
crocs are both Asian might mean that the Saltie originated in Asia before colonising
Australasia. But, then, people have assumed this anyway given that the Salties
Australasian range only encompasses New Guinea and the northern, coastal parts of
Australia (plus the island groups between and around these regions).
Crocodylus porosus, the species complex?

C. porosus skull - w ith Gharial (Gavialis gangeticus) in the background - photographed by Mariomassone in
Museum of Zoology, St. Petersburg. Licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License.

The Saltwater crocodile varies a reasonable amount in appearance and body size
across its extensive range. For these reasons there have been various suggestions that
C. porosus of tradition is actually a species complex that needs splitting up. [Image
above of C. porosus skull by Mariomassone.]

C. raninus skull (AMNH 24294) from Ross (1990). It is a

In 1844, S. Mller and H.

Schlegel suggested that a distinct
blunt-snouted population could
be recognised among crocodiles
then known as C. biporcatus (a
name now regarded as a junior
synonym of C. porosus); they
named this new animal C.
raninus. Of the several Javanese
and Bornean specimens used in
the naming of C. raninus, the two
Javanese ones proved to be
Siamese crocodiles (Ross 1992).
However, the remaining,
Bornean individuals could,
according to Ross (1992), be
reliably distinguished from both
the Siamese crocodile as well as
from unquestionable C. porosus
on the basis of ventral scale

C. raninus skull (AMNH 24294) from Ross (1990). It is a

relatively robust-snouted skull w ith more lateral sculpting and
pitting than usual in C. porosus. The palatine-pterygoid suture
is transverse (in C. porosus it is posterolaterally aligned); other
differences are present as w ell.

counts and on the presence of

four postoccipital scutes (the
ones arranged just behind the
rear margin of the head). Rosss
(1990, 1992) support for the distinction of C. raninus sometimes known as the
Indonesian crocodile or Bornean crocodile has been followed by some other authors,
but the name cant yet be said to be in universal use. A skull, discovered in Brunei in
1990, has been identified as that of C. raninus (Trutnau & Sommerlad 2006).
Those with a good knowledge of Australasian herpetology will be familiar with Richard
W. Wells and C. Ross Wellingtons several publications on the Australasian
herpetofauna. This is not the time and place to discuss their articles or the
controversy and debate that has surrounded them, but I do need to note very briefly
that the numerous taxonomic revisions and proposals made by these authors remain
(for the most part) highly controversial. Anyway, Wells and Wellington made two
suggestions about Saltwater crocodiles that should be noted here.
Firstly, they suggested that C.
porosus included a previously
overlooked species of especially
large, proportionally shorttailed, large-headed crocodile
native to the Finnis and
Reynolds Rivers in Northern
Territory (Wells & Wellington
1985). They named this
supposed species C. pethericki
Poor Sw eetheart, photographed after his demise. I've seen this
photo many times and have alw ays w ondered w hat that metal
(after Australian biologist Ray
object inside his mouth is. Anyone know ?
Petherick) and designated
Sweetheart as the holotype. Sweetheart was a male Saltwater croc (5.1 m long),
captured in July 1979 following a number of incidents where he attacked and damaged
boats. Unfortunately, he drowned during capture and is today preserved as a
taxidermy mount at the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory [see
photo below; by Jpatokal].
According to Wells & Wellington (1985), C. pethericki differs from C. porosus in details
of scalation, overall colour (blackish with white venter vs browner with yellowish
venter) and eyeshine colour (whitish-blue vs reddish), as well as in proportions.
However, their proposal of taxonomic distinction for this form has not been accepted
by other workers and its generally assumed that the differences they reported are
within individual variation, or are related to ontogeny or adaptation to local conditions.

Sw eetheart in his current, taxiderm status at the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory, Darw in,

Sw eetheart in his current, taxiderm status at the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory, Darw in,
Australia. Shame no scale is visible. Photo by Jpatokal, licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike
3.0 Unported license.

Secondly, Wells & Wellington (1985) questioned the otherwise widely-held opinion
that the Saltwater crocs of Australia are conspecific with those of Asia, and hinted at
the idea that more than one overlooked species might exist in Australia. This didnt
result in any additional nomenclatural acts, however. The majority of crocodilian
experts have not regarded Wells and Wellingtons suggestions as worthy of proper
investigation. As well see in a later article, they made yet other suggestions about the
taxonomy and phylogeny of Australian crocodiles.
Here end our all-too-brief look at one of the worlds largest and most charismatic
predators. Time to move on. What about the other members of the Indopacific
assemblage: the New Guinea and Philippine crocodiles, and the Freshwater crocodile?
Thats where were going next.
For previous articles on crocodiles, see
Dissecting a crocodile
Earth: Crocodile Empire homeworld (crocodiles part I)
The once far and wide Siamese crocodile
NEWS: TET ZOO VER 2 CONTENT SEEMS TO BE BACK ONLINE; AT LEAST
SOME ARTICLES HAVE BEEN RESTORED WITH ALL COMMENTS!
Refs Brochu, C. A. 2000a. Congruence between physiology, phylogenetics and the fossil
record on crocodylian historical biogeography. In Grigg, G. C., Seebacher, F. &
Franklin, C. E. (eds) Crocodilian Biology and Evolution. Surry Beatty & Sons
(Chipping Norton, Aus.), pp. 9-28.
- . 2000b. Phylogenetic relationships and divergence timing of Crocodylus based on
morphology and the fossil record. Copeia 2000, 657-673.
- ., Njau, J., Blumenschine, R. J., & Densmore, L. D. 2010. A new horned crocodile
from the Plio-Pleistocene hominid sites at Olduvai Gorge, Tanzania. PLoS ONE 5(2):
e9333. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0009333
- . & Storrs, G. W. 2012. A giant crocodile from the Plio-Pleistocene of Kenya, the
phylogenetic relationships of Neogene African crocodylines, and the antiquity of
Crocodylus in Africa. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 32, 587-602.
Campbell, H. A., Watts, M. E., Sullivan, S., Read, M. A., Choukroun, S., Irwin, S. R. &
Franklin, C. E. 2010. Estuarine crocodiles ride surface currents to facilitate longdistance travel. Journal of Animal Ecology 79, 955-964.
Densmore, L. D. & Owen, R. D. 1989. Molecular systematics of the order Crocodilia.
American Zoologist 29, 831-841.
Gatesy, J. & Amato, G. 2008. The rapid accumulation of consistent molecular support
for intergeneric crocodilian relationships. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 48,
1232-1237.
Gerlach, J. & Canning, L. 1993. On the crocodiles of the western Indian Ocean.
Phelsuma 2, 54-58.

Man, Z., Yishu, W., Peng, Y. & Wu, X. 2011. Crocodilian phylogeny inferred from
twelve mitochondrial protein-coding genes, with new complete mitochondrial genomic
sequences for Crocodylus acutus and Crocodylus novaeguineae. Molecular
Phylogenetic and Evolution 60, 62-67.
McAliley LR, Willis RE, Ray DA, White PS, Brochu CA, & Densmore LD 3rd (2006).
Are crocodiles really monophyletic?Evidence for subdivisions from sequence and
morphological data. Molecular phylogenetics and evolution, 39 (1), 16-32 PMID:
16495085
Meganathan, P. R., Dubey, B., Batzer, M. A., Ray, D. A. & Haque, I. 2010. Molecular
phylogenetic analyses of genus Crocodylus (Eusuchia, Crocodylia, Crocodylidae) and
the taxonomic position of Crocodylus porosus. Molecular Phylogenetics and
Evolution 57, 393-402.
Oaks, J. R. 2011. A time-calibrated species tree of Crocodylia reveals a recent
radiation of the true crocodiles. Evolution 65, 3285-3297.
Ross, C. A. 1990. Crocodylus raninus S. Mller and Schlegel, a valid species of
crocodile (Reptilia: Crocodylidae) from Borneo. Proceedings of the Biological Society
of Washington 103, 955-961.
- . 1992. Designation of a lectotype for Crocodylus raninus S. Mller and Schlegel
(Reptilia: Crocodylidae), the Borneo crocodile. Proceedings of the Biological Society
of Washington 105, 400-402.
Ross, F. D. & Mayer, G. C. 1983. On the dorsal armor of the Crocodilia. In Rhodin, A.
G. J. & Miyata, K. (eds) Advances in Herpetology and Evolutionary Biology. Museum
of Comparative Zoology (Cambridge, Mass.), pp. 306-331.
Steel, R. 1989. Crocodiles. Christopher Helm, London.
Trutnau, L. & Sommerlad, R. 2006. Crocodilians: Their Natural History and Captive
Husbandry. Edition Chimaira, Frankfurt.
Wells, R. W. & Wellington, C. R. 1985. A classification of the Amphibia and Reptilia of
Australia. Australian Journal of Herpetology, Suppl. Ser. 1, 1-61.
Woodward, H. N., Horner, J. R. & Farlow, J. O. 2011. Osteohistological evidence for
determinate growth in the American alligator. Journal of Herpetology 45, 339-342.
About the Author: Darren Naish is a science writer, technical editor and palaeozoologist
(affiliated with the University of Southampton, UK). He mostly works on Cretaceous
dinosaurs and pterosaurs but has an avid interest in all things tetrapod. He has been
blogging at Tetrapod Zoology since 2006.

Follow on Twitter @TetZoo.

More

The views expressed are those of the author and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.

Tags: archosaurs, crocodiles, crocodilians, crocodyliforms, herpetology, reptiles

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and wide Siamese

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Guinea, crocodiles of the

and wide Siamese

crocodile

Tetrapod Zoology

Post a comment | Read Comments (49)

49 Comments

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109

Philippines (crocodiles
part IV)

Add Comment

1. vdinets
6:58 pm 06/18/2012

Darren: isnt Brunei also on Borneo?

The argument that salties must be of Asian origin because they
occupy only part of Australia is a bit strange. They dont
occupy all of Eurasia, either
Link to this

2. naishd
7:31 pm 06/18/2012

Im stupid youre right, Brunei is on the island of Borneo..

[main text in article now modified].

As for the argument about the place of origin for the Saltwater
crocodile, the idea is that most of its range is Asian and hence
suggestive of an Asian origin but I see your point.

Darren
Link to this

3. Finback
9:26 pm 06/18/2012

Its worth noting there are claims Sweetheart didnt die. Some
time after the animal shown was killed, another large male was
caught upstream several miles from the trap site. This animal,
now named Cassius and living in a Queensland animal park,
had the front end of his snout sliced off cleanly, as though a
blade had run through it, had scars (presumably from
propellors) running up and down his back, and whenever a
boat would run up the river near his pen, he would go insane,
leading them to reinforce his pens walls. So its been suggested
Sweetheart may have escaped into a pleasant retirement,
rather than dying; its at least nice to think so, given that
Sweetheart never actually attacked any humans.
Link to this

4. naishd
4:00 am 06/19/2012

Id never heard that. Thanks, Finback. Sweetheart was

apparently the inspiration for a 2007 movie, Rogue.

Darren
Link to this

5. Jerzy v. 3.0.
5:01 am 06/19/2012

Population genetics of saltwater croc would be interesting

project, no matter new species. Does its ability to travel across

seas resulted in panmictic population? How extensive is

natural hybridization?

Crocodylus pethericki can be just a subset of old and large

adult, especially male, salties. Large crocodiles show
ontogenic change in body proportions, colour and ecology.
Tempting to draw parallels with large dinosaurs.

BTW anybody knows what determines eyeshine colour of

animals? And how variable it can be within species and in one
individual?
Link to this

6. Hai~Ren
6:09 am 06/19/2012

Re: C. porosus extralimital records: Dont forget that C.

porosus was also supposedly present in the Seychelles. Im
sure that if they had managed to become established, they
could have eventually colonised Madagascar, Comoros, and
the east coast of Africa, maybe even up to the Red Sea.

One particular area where cryptozoologists in Southeast Asia

can contribute is in looking for these supposed C. raninus
populations, and finding out if they are actually distinct from
verified Bornean populations of C. porosus. They might turn
out to represent surviving populations of Bornean C.
siamensis.
Link to this

7. naishd
6:12 am 06/19/2012

Hai-Ren Re: Seychelles, look at the article again!

Darren
Link to this

8. Dartian
6:47 am 06/19/2012

Darren:
the Freshwater crocodile

Pet peeve: Could we please start calling this species by the

vernacular name Australian crocodile instead (or Australian
freshwater crocodile, if you insist) at least in international
contexts?
Link to this

9. StupendousMan
8:49 am 06/19/2012

I have grabbed a copy of the entire Tet Zoo v2 material,

including comments, in case it disappears again. Id be happy
to give a copy of the archive to anyone who asks, but be aware
that its 130 MB.

I suppose that someone might choose to make the material

available in some coherent and somewhat permanent fashion;
let me know if I can help. I have no idea what IP issues might
be involved.
Link to this

10. Hai~Ren
8:56 am 06/19/2012

Darren: Oops, must have missed that on my first skimming.

But if youre hinting that cryptozoologists may find C. porosus
along the east coast of Africa, wouldnt it be a case of asking
how far west they have travelled?

By the way, as Darren tweeted, Tet Zoo version 2 is back on

Scienceblogs, with comments fully restored. Hurray! Either it
was something that the people at Scienceblogs had been
working on all along, or maybe our complaints were heard.
Whatever the case, I guess now would be a good time to rearchive the posts (with comments) and store them somewhere,
just in case a similar disaster happens. Might want to do this
for version 1 too, just in case.
Link to this

11. naishd
10:21 am 06/19/2012

Thanks for comments. Name of the Freshwater crocodile

(comment 8): Im all for being specific, and would use
Australian freshwater crocodile (or whatever) were there the
risk of confusion. However, when referring to the crocodiles
of Australia, is there a risk of confusion? I dont think so
everyone seems to know what youre talking about (smiley).
Australian crocodile is not, to my knowledge, a well known
moniker for this species (at least, not in English).

With regard to comment 10, when asking how far east have
they travelled?, I was referring to eastward movement of C.
porosus across the Pacific, in the direction of the Americas.
Stories of big, crocodile-like animals seen in the Atlantic and
western Indian Ocean have been suggested to be sightings of
sea-going Nile crocs I was hinting at the idea that sightings of
big, crocodile-like animals seen out at sea in the open Pacific
might, similarly, be Saltwater crocs.

And thanks to all for thoughts on backing up the different

versions of Tet Zoo.

Darren
Link to this

12. Hai~Ren
11:52 am 06/19/2012

Darren: Oh yes, Id wanted to add in a caveat in my original

comment, unless youre talking about crocodiles swimming
east from Philippines/Indonesia/Polynesia to Hawaii or the
Galapagos

As an aside, the latest issue of Biawak has an account of

estuarine crocodile predation on Malayan water monitor in
Singapore, witnessed by some of my friends. Plus
observations on parthenogenesis in argus monitor.
Link to this

13. Wilbert Friesen

3:18 pm 06/19/2012

Yeah !!!! The briljant epic Tet Zoo 2 is back on line Yes !!!
Hoeraaaaa !!! Borhyaenids and Prothylacinids here I come !

Concerning the crocs.

I always wondered why phylogenetic changes are so incredible
rapid with some species and so syrupy slow with other
creatures. For example Quinkana survived from the late
Oligocene to the Pleistocene but other (crocodile) genera just
show up and die out in a few seconds time. A flick of the
switch.
Link to this

14. Heteromeles
8:39 pm 06/19/2012

@13: As for the endurance of species, my uninformed guess is

that its a result of two factors:

A. Many phenomena in nature seemed to follow a jshaped/long-tail distribution, with a few common and many
rare representatives. Theres no particular reason to think this
doesnt apply to species longevity, especially given that in
almost any speciose group, there are a few common and many
rare species. Therefore, Id expect any clade to have a few
Lazarus Longs, no matter what the clade is. By analogy, there
has to be a worlds richest man, one species in every clade has
to outlive all the others, if only by pure chance. (see Black
Swan Theory for a more verbose explanation).

2. The fossil record is notoriously incomplete, and the species

that live near good depositional zones are going to be overrepresented. Yes, crocodilians tend to live in depositional
environments, but still, estuarine species might do better as
fossils than those in upland ponds or terrestrial environments.
Link to this

15. Jurassosaurus
9:15 pm 06/19/2012

Another possible reason could just be lazy taxonomists (see

Leidyosuchus for example).
Link to this

16. Dartian
12:16 am 06/20/2012

Darren:
However, when referring to the crocodiles of Australia, is
there a risk of confusion?

But you werent talking specifically about Australia there; you

were listing a bunch of Indopacific species all of which, as
it happens, mainly live in freshwater (and, furthermore, in
countries/regions where the saltwater crocodile Crocodylus
porosus also occurs).

everyone seems to know what youre talking about

Maybe, but if you are going to use the it-makes-sense-incontext argument, I cant resist pointing out that pretty much
the same thing could be said about the word raptor. In few if
any situations is there any real risk of anyone confusing extant
birds of prey with certain smallish, flesh-eating Mesozoic
dinosaurs. Yet you are on record as opposing the use of
raptor for both these groups of archosaurs. Isnt that a bit
inconsistent?

Australian crocodile is not, to my knowledge, a well

known moniker for this species (at least, not in English).

Ah, but you could start making it a well known moniker! I

mean seriously; your blog even has its own TV Tropes page
thats proof positive that you are now definitely a Somebody!

Link to this

17. John Scanlon FCD

1:30 am 06/20/2012

re Jerzys comment on panmixis (-ia?) and hybridization, that

would allow several of the proposed phylogenies to be correct
at the same time (win-win!).

Otherwise well have to take the names off all the PlioPleistocene C. porosus fossils from northern Australia

But if Salties are the Homo erectus of crocs, they can be

immediate ancestors of various freshwater species (which
might then hybridise occasionally with each other) and
produce almost any pattern of synapomorphies you can
imagine (hey, it worked for hominids). More nuclear genes
and more morphological characters needed!
Link to this

18. naishd
5:00 am 06/20/2012

Thanks for all the great comments. With relevance to many of

the comments above does anybody know if any large-scale,
cross-country phylogeographic study has been done on
Saltwater crocs, or if any such project is underway, or
planned? If such work hasnt been done, or isnt being
planned, it seems to me to be high time that such a project was
funded. Any results would be important for our understanding
of the spread and evolution of this species, and also for its
conservation biology and dispersal behaviour.

Darren
Link to this

19. Jerzy v. 3.0.

5:06 am 06/20/2012

Re: species longevity. I heard on some study on, I think

Paleozoic invertebrates, that no factor predicts future
extinction of species in geological scale.

Simply: if an ecological niche of a species persists, the species

will persist, otherwise it will disappear: go extinct or evolve.

It is sometimes said that specialized species go extinct quickly

and unspecialized species survive long. However, anteaters
and turtles, for example, are specialized forms changing very
little.
Link to this

20. Jerzy v. 3.0.

5:11 am 06/20/2012

Re: C porosus what was about its supposed ocurence in East

Africa?
Link to this

21. naishd
5:14 am 06/20/2012

Presence of C. porosus in east Africa: as discussed in the

article above, while Ive been able to find records from the
Seychelles (1500 km off African coast).

Gerlach, J. & Canning, L. 1993. On the crocodiles of the

western Indian Ocean. Phelsuma 2, 54-58.

I have yet to see anything in the literature on definitive

African occurrences. Have you? If anyone knows anything,
please say so.

Darren
Link to this

22. Rappy
8:52 am 06/20/2012

Long time reader, first time commenter.

While I could simply say that this is a great article as usual, I

figured Id add something helpful concerning the photograph
of Sweetheart and the mystery object you wanted identified.

According to Steve Grenards Handbook of Alligators and

Crocodiles, the metal tube inside of Sweethearts jaws is a

motor cowl, the covering of a boat engine that Grenards

caption states Sweetheart liked to play with while alive.
While I cant be 100% certain this is accurate, the object in
question could feasibly be a decidedly crushed motor cowl, so
Im going with Grenards claim.
Link to this

23. naishd
12:18 pm 06/20/2012

Rappy thanks. I always thought it was a part of a boat

engine.

Darren
Link to this

24. John Scanlon FCD

12:58 am 06/21/2012

I always thought it was a plastic bucket. I cut the B&W photo

out of a magazine in about August 1979 (slightly higher
resolution than shown above) and it never occurred to me that
it would be a piece of metal. I really dont think it is: the way it
bends around the teeth looks like its temporarily bent by
sustained pressure, not like its been crushed. And if it was a
beloved toy piece of motorboat, how many times could
Sweetheart have bitten it while playing, without flattening
and tearing it?

The photos of Sweetheart being pulled out of the river (on the
Northern Territory Library site) show his mouth open with
top-jaw rope, and closed with the rope wrapped around both
jaws, and theres no cylindrical piece of metal in sight. But
plastic buckets are ubiquitous and, if sturdily made (1970s!),
might be just the sort of handy object used to prop the jaws
open for a photo.
Link to this

25. Dartian
1:54 am 06/21/2012

John:
looks like its temporarily bent by sustained pressure

But how can there be sustained pressure if the crocodile is

dead?
Link to this

26. John Scanlon FCD

3:05 am 06/21/2012

Its supporting the upper jaw.

Link to this

27. Dartian
3:39 am 06/21/2012

John:
Its supporting the upper jaw.

I realise that, but is the (literal) dead weight of a crocodiles

upper jaw sufficient to bend a sturdy plastic bucket like that?
Link to this

28. naishd
4:04 am 06/21/2012

A higher-res version of the image here seems to show that it is

indeed a bucket, since the wire handle can clearly be seen to
be connected at two points on either side of the rim.

Darren
Link to this

29. John Scanlon FCD

4:57 am 06/21/2012

Was it Herodotus or Aristotle who is supposed to have

claimed that in crocs the upper jaw rotates against the skull
instead of the lower? (Or was this only a misreading of the
obvious fact that you cant lower the mandible when its
resting on the ground?)

Anyway, we had a porosus skull for comparison in the lab in

Mount Isa, from a Normanton individual that would have
been about 4.1 m by Greers equation. It was formerly glued
and plastered together and partly painted, but I did some
cleaning and separated the skull and mandible. Since the
quadrate-articular joint is right at the back, and the snout is
quite broad and moderately deep, it takes quite a bit of force
to keep the mouth open (somebody possibly sometimes
demonstrated this on arms and bodies of schoolkids visiting
the lab). A flimsy modern bucket under the large maxillary
teeth could have been squashed by the weight of the dry bones
alone.
Link to this

30. Dartian
5:01 am 06/21/2012

Darren:
A higher-res version of the image here seems to show that it
is indeed a bucket, since the wire handle can clearly be seen
to be connected at two points on either side of the rim.

Hm. Alrighty then.

Theres a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza

Link to this

31. Dartian
5:16 am 06/21/2012

John:
Was it Herodotus or Aristotle who is supposed to have
claimed that in crocs the upper jaw rotates against the skull
instead of the lower?

Aristotle, Herodotus, and Pliny the Elder all made that claim.

(Although the two latter could of course have copied this

information from Aristotle.)
Link to this

32. Dartian
5:21 am 06/21/2012

the two latter could of course have copied this information

from Aristotle

Agh, scratch that; Herodotus, of course, lived before

Aristotle.
Link to this

33. John Scanlon FCD

8:48 am 06/21/2012

And there doesnt seem to be much evidence that Aristotle was

read by anyone for some hundreds of years after he lived,
afair without googling.
Link to this

34. Lars Dietz

9:13 am 06/21/2012

And there doesnt seem to be much evidence that Aristotle

was read by anyone for some hundreds of years after he lived,
afair without googling.

Well, he was quite influential in his own time, and into Roman
times. Much of Plinys Naturalis Historia was based on
Aristotle, with or without attribution. Of course Pliny also
used other sources (many of which are now lost), and could
have gotten the story directly from Herodotus. Aristotles
works werent as widely known in Early Medieval Europe, but
they survived in the Muslim world in Arabic translations, and
Latin translations of these later made it to Europe in (I think)
the 13th century.
By the way, Herodotus also claimed that the crocodile has no
tongue, and therefore its teeth are cleaned by a bird called
trochilos, generally thought to be the Egyptian Plover. The
second part of this story is still widely believed, although there
is no real evidence for it.
Link to this

35. vdinets
10:25 am 06/21/2012

Lars: crocodile tongue is attached to the jaw along almost all of

its length, and is not particularly movable, so Herodotus
probably didnt recognize it as tongue. As for the bird, it could
well be some species present in the Nile Delta, but absent (or
lacking the teeth-cleaning habit) in the rest of Africa. Crocs
later went extinct in the Lower Egypt, so well never know if
Herodotus was correct or not. As a consolation, I do have a
few photos of small fish cleaning the teeth of an American
crocodile in the wild
Link to this

36. Lars Dietz

12:32 pm 06/21/2012

vdinets: Of course that would be a possibility, but then

Herodotus often reported myths as fact, and even in antiquity
some called him a liar. By the way, from Wikipedia: In
particular, it is possible that he copied descriptions of the
crocodile, hippopotamus and phoenix from Hecataeuss
Circumnavigation of the Known World (Periegesis/Periodos
ges), even mis-representing the source as Heliopolitans
(Histories 2.73). So even he probably got at least a secondhand account.
Link to this

37. Mythusmage
6:21 pm 06/21/2012

Australian crocodiles: Funny, but I thought the colloquail

names were saltie and freshie.
Link to this

38. vdinets
12:12 am 06/22/2012

Lars: it could be just a legend, of course, but note that some

later naturalists have also reported seeing this. Among them
was Alfred Brehm, who was very influential in his time,
although I dont remember where exactly did his claimed
sighting happen. I am also not aware of him ever being caught
lying but I didnt do any research on this.
Link to this

39. Dartian
1:47 am 06/22/2012

I thought the colloquail names were saltie and freshie

And the colloquial name of Australia is Oz, but you wont find
that name used in any official context (e.g., in an atlas). Names
matter, even vernacular ones. Anyone who thinks that
freshwater crocodile is an unambiguous, confusion-safe
name should go to, say, India (where English is an official
language) and ask random people there if they have ever
heard of the freshwater crocodile. How many do you think
will immediately know that youre referring to Crocodylus
johnstoni?
Link to this

40. John Scanlon FCD

9:48 am 06/22/2012

vdinets: Brehms name doesnt come up very often these days.

I found a complete set of volumes of an early C20 edition of
Tierleben in a secondhand bookshop in Sydney some years
ago, a bit battered and going cheap, but have hardly read any
of it (I find German hard to skim, can only access it serially
rather than randomly, and the Fraktur doesnt help).
Somewhere in a box since last move (I havent been fully
unpacked for about 24 years), probably with my Grandmas
set of Goldsmiths Earth and Animated Nature.
Link to this

41. vdinets
8:49 pm 06/22/2012

Dartian: I think virtually any non-zoologist anywhere in the

world, if asked what an Australian crocodile is, would

immediately think of Steve Irvin and salties.

In fact, freshwater crocodile is not that bad a name,

considering that very few (if any) other crocs have never been
recorded in salt or at least brackish water.

John: I have a Russian translation (in two volumes) but its in

my moms apartment in Moscow.
Link to this

42. Rappy
11:59 pm 06/22/2012

Looking at it in more detail, yeah, it is indeed a bucket.

That does make me wonder where Grenard got the whole

motor cowl claim from, though. Maybe an attempt to
shoehorn in Sweethearts life story?
Link to this

43. Surroundx
4:17 am 06/23/2012

You can tell the object in Sweethearts mouth is a plastic

bucket even in the lowish resolution photograph above. The
metal semi-circle handle is clearly visible.

Regarding the true identity of Sweetheart, Robert Reid quotes

G. J. (George Craig), owner of the Cassius mentioned by
Finback (post #3). Craig believes that Cassius is the real
Sweetheart. He had this to say:

The stuffed croc in Darwin is only 16 feet 10 inches and has

no scars at all. It just doesnt add up. With his tail complete,
Cassius would be a true 18-footer and there arent many of
those around. His injuries are consistent with Sweethearts
recorded attacks on boats and his aggressive behaviour makes
him the meanest crocodile I have ever encountered. He gets
agitated when he hears a marine engine. Hes Sweetheart all
right.

(Robert Reid, Croc!, pp. 39)

While perusing my library and Google Scholar for records of

Crocodylus porosus in Africa, I came across the following
interesting claim:

[T]here is a strong case that crocodiles have attained 20metre and over sizes in the Indo-Pacific region up until fairly
recent times.

(Robert Reid, Croc!, pp. 239)

The context is the fossil record. Reid isnt claiming there

crocodiles that big alive still. But it still seems extraordinary.
So far as I know, no fossil member of the genus Crocodylus
has been reported as growing to more than 10 metres. Is this
just pure misinformation, or is there actually some substance
to this claim?

Reference:

Reid, Robert. (2008). Croc! Savage Tales from Australias

Wild Frontier. Crows Nest, N.S.W.: Allen & Unwin.
Link to this

44. Lars Dietz

1:21 pm 06/23/2012

Ive looked up the description of the Egyptian Plover in

Brehms Tierleben, and he only says that he observed it
entering crocodiles mouths repeatedly, but not where. I dont
remember anything about him lying either, though, although
his descriptions are often very anthropomorphised.
Meinertzhagen also claimed to have observed it in Sudan (also
with Spur-winged Plovers in southern Africa), but of course
hes not a reliable source. Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire also claimed
to have seen a bird fly into the crocodiles mouth, but he
makes it clear that the bird he saw was actually the Little
Ringed Plover. So maybe shorebirds sometimes do try to pick
parasites or food from crocs mouths, but its clearly not a
regular symbiosis.
Link to this

45. John Harshman

5:26 pm 06/23/2012

By the way, is the title a reference to The Iron Giant?

Link to this

46. naishd
6:35 pm 06/23/2012

John yes, well done (smiley).

D
Link to this

47. vdinets
10:06 pm 06/23/2012

Lars: thank you. Id be surprised if naive migrants from

outside the crocs range do not accidentally walk into the
mouth of a basking crocodile in search of food on some
occasions it sucks to be a naive migrant.
Link to this

48. Lars Dietz

10:37 am 06/24/2012

vdinets: Yes, that might of course happen. Another case would

be the Common Sandpiper that was observed doing this in
South Africa by J. J. Player according to the article on the Nile

croc in Grzimeks Tierleben (written by Bernhard Grzimek

himself). Grzimek also mentions that Guggisberg observed a
marabou picking a small fish out of a crocs open mouth,
which even was filmed. Unfortunately there are no references,
so I dont know when either of this happened or where it was
published.
By the way, its strange that all the accounts that I found refer
to Nile crocodiles. Does anyone know if there are any reports
that involve other crocodile species?
Link to this

49. David Marjanovi

6:53 pm 07/9/2012

Yay for Tet Zoo 2!

Alfred Brehm [...] I am also not aware of him ever being

caught lying

He did retell plenty of tall tales and anthropomorphized a lot,

AFAIK.
Link to this

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