Andromachus Munifex Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Greenwood the Great Posts: 48
How to edit M2TW MESH
Converting MESHes for MilkShape NOTE: I have put this Tutorial on here for Newbies like I was when I started out. Hopefully this can help inspire some new modelers to get into the art of 3D modeling... Tutorial on How to convert a M2TW mesh to ms3d and modifying it and exporting back to mesh for use in M2TW. This is something that has taken me a lot to accomplish, simply because of time available, but I must say this is something I wanted to do this for the community simply because people like GrumpyOldMan and Knight Errant have spent so many of their personal hours away from their families unraveling the many files that contain the mysteries that make Medieval II Total War such an amazing and wonderful game. For my part, Medieval II Total War, or for that matter any Total War game that has been produced are the ONLY PC games I have played, because they fed my desire for an excellent PC strategy and tactics game. I want to personally thank Knight Errant and GrumpyOldMan, for it was both of these people who introduced me to the world of 3D modeling in the game world and they took this little toddler beyond just editing text files to actually working with the three-dimensional graphics of the game. My hats off to you two.
PREPARATIONS FOR MODEL MODIFICATION Now if I went into minute detail on every facet of model modification for Medieval II Total War, this would be an immense tutorial. Thus I have decided to omit sections which are found in other tutorials on this forum (to relieve ourselves of redundancy) and to attempt in some manner to address the key issues at hand. Things such as unpacking the pak files under data and other such stuff should be done prior to attempting model modification; otherwise you will not be able to find anything to modify Please do not overwrite any of your vanilla files. What I have done is made a copy of all textures and meshes under a separate directory I call Model Modification. Not only do I provide myself with a backup of all meshes, but also I provide myself with a safe work area to store my masterpieces and my mistakes. NOTE: Your mesh files are located in: \Medieval Total War\Data\unit_models Become familiar with what kind of base models the units you want to modify use, this is how the file structure under unit model is setup. We will be modifying the pike_militia_ug3_lodx mesh, which is located under ln_3qplate_halfplate. These series of meshes will be found under the following directory structure: C:\...\Total War\Medieval II Total War MyMod\data\unit_models\_units\ln_3qplate_halfplate MESH CONVERTER by GrumpyOldMan You will want to convert your MESH to an ms3d file format by using GrumpyOldMans converter found here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1276 I. CONVERT YOUR MESH To begin, open the converter Select Convert found under the File pull down. (see image)
*Note: the choices you have under the file Pull down: Convert: this option allows you to convert MESH to MS3D and also MS3D to MESH (to load back into game) Merge: This allows you to merge various M2TW converted MESH components or even other components from other models (like RTW converted CASs) into one model. Quit: Make sure you use Quit, because hitting the X at the wrong time in the upper right hand corner can cause the exporter to crash unexpectedly.
LODS NOTE: Also something to think about is that all the work that we do here has to be done for all the lods of the various models in question. What I am doing here is using the lod2 because it has the smallest numbers of polygons which would work on most machines in terms of detailed graphics. The higher lods, lod0 and lod1have more detail in them. What I plan to do is modify only lod2 and then when the time comes, I will copy and rename them to all lods. This can also be done in the battle_model.modeldb, but I have not mastered the modification of this file as of yet, so I rather just "trick" the engine than actually modifying the lods in the battle_model.modeldb.
This is how your model should appear in the MESH converter. By
using the right and left arrow keys, you can spin the model around to get a full 360 degree viewing before converting. II. BRING YOUR CONVERTED MESH INTO MILKSHAPE 3D NOTE: On the use of and the tools of MilkShape 3D, please refer to Chumblasofts website for MilkShape 3D tutorials. (With this I am omitting some of the basic functions within MilkShape to avoid redundancy) This information may be found here: http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ As you can see the MilkShape 3D interface is easy to use and here you can see the pike_militia ms3d ready for modification.
Just for interest sake, I am going to also load the texture for this particular model. This can be found under the following directory: C:\...\Total War\Medieval II Total War MyMod\data\unit_models\_units\ln_3qplate_halfplate\textures
NOTE: Now, if you notice the model seems dark, which I myself am not sure why this is, some of our resident experts on this site maybe able to explain this. This is something that includes the more advanced graphics over earlier RTW models, and I have yet to learn what and how to make some of these more advanced graphics. Some of this has been tackled by our compatriots on the Org. Anyway, what I seek to do is move a vertex just slightly out of place which then lightens up the entire model. This is something you can do, BUT is NOT necessary. Now lets take a little break here and I will tell you what I am going to do. I am going to change this heavily armored pikeman into a fictional Neo-classical heavy phalangite. I am removing the vanilla sallets, pikes and swords and replacing them with a set of new pikes, new swords and new helmets. To delete the pieces that I do not want for my new model, I go under the groups tab in MilkShape and select each individual piece and simply delete it:
I delete all parts until I have the model shown above.
NOTE: Also notice some important subjects when dealing with 3D game models. First are your Materials. Materials: www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?118627-How-to-edit-M2TW-MESH
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[Tutorial] How to edit M2TW MESH
Materials are textures. These must be converted to dds format
before bringing then into MilkShape. The texture to dds converter can be found on this forum here: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75726 It is necessary to have the correct materials assigned to your new components. There are two basic sections for Materials in M2TW models; Figure and attachments. So that we can make maximum use of the textures we have available to us, I will load both. Later we shall see that is important to have Materials assigned to your new components you will want to bring in game. NOTE: Now, in most cases if your are just making minor changes, most of the texture mapping for M2TW models is retained through the conversion process and when export (as we shall see later) is retained. Joints Joints are the Tab that handles your bones, vertices and weights which are terribly important to getting the model into the game. If your vertices are not assigned correctly, you could experience all sorts of mayhem and confusion when bringing your model back into the game. Disabilities such as Ray Man and Stiff Man Syndrome are common ailments to improperly assigned vertices in the model. Ray man {place holder for images } Ray Man Stiff Man Syndrome
NOTE: Please refer to the Appendices section of this tutorial for
proper m2TW vertex assignments and weighting. III. ADDING NEW ATTACHMENTS We are now ready to bring in our new attachments. This are going to be the new helmets, swords and pikes that I have previously constructed. These can be new pieces that you have made yourself, brought in form other M2TW models or what is more exciting pieces from RTW. All the models you will see me attach to this pike_militia_ug3 model will be from these various sources. By having things setup this way, it allows to kit-bash models together for an endless selection and array of soldier types. Lets go through the steps to add our attachments. First we need to prepare our new pieces that we will be merging into our model. This requires use to map the individual models with the correct textures and also assign the correct vertices to avoid some of the problems I have mentioned in the previous text.
Here are the swords we will be using. I got these from various RTW mods and one is an M2TW model. All of these I cleaned up and heavily modified form my own needs. I must assign my swords with www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?118627-How-to-edit-M2TW-MESH
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[Tutorial] How to edit M2TW MESH
new textures otherwise they will look funny. In this case, so I have access to the plate metal in the Figure texture, I am assigning the swords to Figure in the Materials tab.
Make sure your texture mapping is correct. To keep things simple, I
am rescaling the mapping so that the swords are plain steel. I scale the swords mapping down in the Texture Coordinate Window of MilkShape 3D, which then allows my to put my sword over any texture I need to.
As you can see here I have assigned the proper vertices to the swords. In order to do this, select the bone_weapon_weapon01 joint, then you need to select all the swords. Now in this case the scabbards are in the same group as the swords, so you will not be able to select their group. Once this is done, under the Joints tab select the button labeled Assign. Thats it. When and IF I cover the conversion of RTW models over to M2TW I will address the more difficult aspects of having to assign body vertices per joint bone on the skeleton body.
These are the pikes we will be using. I actually hodge-podged these
together from M2TW halberds and pikes. I have already mapped and assigned these as above.
These are the helmets that we will be using. Now these are my pride and joy as these were the first helmets I made. The helmets are M2TW late body burgonets and the various crests are from modified helmets that were used in two very popular and well-done (I might add) modifications of RTW. These various pieces of the helmets were assembled through GrumpyOldMans merge function in his mesh converter. I will show you further down how this can be done when we assemble the entire pikeman together. Also, all vertices are assigned to bone_head.
A NOTE ON COMMENTS This is a very important section which needs to be addressed. You will for most of your components that you use to build your model, insert comments under their particular designation. Comments help the game engine place the various components of the figure together. This is needed because now with M2TW the engine is now able to put various parts of the model together to create random appearing units. It is necessary to have your Comments for each piece labeled correctly so that the game engine can place these correctly and maintain their position on the model throughout the lods as you zoom in an out. Otherwise, what happens is that as you zoom in and out, helmets will change or weapons will appear and disappear. IV. MERGE FUNCTION IN THE MESH CONVERTER My favorite function available in the converter is the ability to kitbash various pieces of models together. This can be done under the merge function. Now, something to remember, that as your are assembling your pieces together, you must rename your ending model, because the converter is setup in such a way as to not allow you to overwrite one of your existing pieces your are using for assembly. What I like to do is simple; just add some alphanumeric character at the end and progress down as you add parts. When you merge, start with the main body (I am not sure if it makes any difference, but I prefer to move down a logical path usually) Below, I have merged the body and helmets together.
Below I have now merged the new body with swords.
You move on and on, continuing to merge your various pieces until you are complete.
Open up GOMs converter again, Select Convert under the File pull down. For this you want: MS3D to MESH Remember to do this for all lods, After this, replace the vanilla model with your new model under its proper path and then you may now proceed to start M2TW and see your new unit in game VI. NEW MESH IN GAME This is the new pike militia in game awaiting their opponents on the field of battle.
Below are French and HRE pike-militia duking it out with new plumed helmets, short pikes and new swords.
AT
Last edited by Andromachus; August 30, 2007 at 01:32 AM.
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#2
August 30, 2007, 01:21 AM
Andromachus Munifex Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Greenwood the Great Posts: 48
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Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Appendices on Texture mapping
Open your Model up in MilkShape 3D
Load your Texture under the Materials Tab on the Left hand side. Make sure that your Material for the soldier body is loaded under Figure portion. This is important, otheriwse the soldier texture could www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?118627-How-to-edit-M2TW-MESH
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wind up on your weapons, shields etc.
Before working with your mapping for new parts, select the parts in the model window. It is important to select the Faces and not just the vertices, so when you open the Texture Coordinate Window, your model parts will appear.
The Texture Coordinate Window is found under the Window pulldown.
Once you have entered the Texture Coordinate Window, go to the
model selection on the right hand side and select the portion of the model or Group you would like to map.
Use the Select button to select your map, just like you would a model piece in the standard modeling view.
Use the move button to move your map over the correct texture. Notice as you move the 2D representation of your selected model that it will "pick" up the texture it is over.
Use the lower "Scale" button, just above "Fit Selection" to "scale" your view, not your texture map. www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?118627-How-to-edit-M2TW-MESH
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IMPORTANT: Don't let this throw you, as you are not scaling your texture map, you are zooming.
Use the upper "Scale" button in your tools cluster to scale your texture map.
Now the feather plume texture is mapped and ready for its glorious showing upon the field of battle... I hope this section has been helpful... AT
Last edited by Andromachus; September 15, 2007 at 05:55 AM.
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#3
August 30, 2007, 01:21 AM
Andromachus Munifex Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Greenwood the Great Posts: 48
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Place holder for Appendices on RTW CAS conversion and Vertex-Bone assignment in MilkShape 3D Location of GrumpyOldMan's RTW CAS to MilkShape 3D converter... http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1321
Last edited by Andromachus; September 15, 2007 at 05:55 AM.
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#4
August 30, 2007, 07:44 AM
KnightErrant
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
AT,
Taih no heishi
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Huntsville, Alabama USA Posts: 578
That is very nice. Very detailed so everyone can follow along.
I know you're still working on the appendices but this is going to be very helpful to us non-Milkshape conversant people (I mean mechanics of Milkshape which I still haven't gotten down despite GOM's helpful posts.) I hope once the yard season is over I can tread the steps you've trod already so many thanks for the roadmap. Edit: Just wanted to add one thing. New users might see the bones displayed very large. GOM's release notes have this caveat: Go to File --> Preferences and then choose the misc tab. Under joint size type in 0.025, this makes the joints display in a normal way. "Dictum Sapienti sat est"; A word to the wise is sufficient. KE
Last edited by KnightErrant; August 30, 2007 at 08:24 AM.
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#5
October 02, 2007, 05:49 PM
killerxguy
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Nice tutorial...what about the rest of the tutorial? Thanks for what you gave anyways.
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#6
October 10, 2007, 01:06 AM
Andromachus Munifex Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Greenwood the Great Posts: 48
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
@killerxguy My apologies, but raising five kids takes a lot of your time. I will try to publish something in the next several weeks if I can... AT Reply
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#7
October 30, 2007, 01:49 PM
alien_t
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Will you finish please Vertex-Bone assignment appendix? Thanks for great tutorial :-)
Signifer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 212
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#10
January 16, 2008, 07:21 AM
The Conquistador
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
I was hoping to ask if I could get a unit request through does anyone know where to find a forum for unit requests at... I have tried and tried ans spent countless nights trying to use milkshape but I keep failing every time
Ashigaru Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: From the Good ol' US of A Posts: 79
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#11
January 27, 2008, 12:16 AM
funky_kiwi
Yoshihara Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 65
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
hey, thx a lot 4 the tutorial, I think that thanks 2 u I can now find my way through. I've got 1 trouble though, I'm using the 30days tryout version of MS3D, and I'm only on my 2dn, but since the 1st one included, it refused to save my work saying that I must buy the licence. Does anybody know why ? thx by advance :smiling:
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#12
January 27, 2008, 03:10 AM
funky_kiwi
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Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Hey sry again, but I've got a new problem maybe u guys can help
me with : I found a way to save milk files but here is the new problem:
Yoshihara Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 65
I started with a empty file, then I used merge (the one in
milkshape, not GOM's) in order to import the knights_templar_lod0 model, then did the same with dhruzina_ug1_lod0, and finally deleted the second model's groups except head & russian helmet ( coz I'm trying to give templars conical noseguard helmets). Then I saved it & converted it back in .MESH. Then in game, I get the stiffman thing + most parts of my templars are invisble. So I checked back the ms3D model, & the joints, texture coordinates & comments were all the same as in the originial models, as those were imported with each imported model. So why do I get these problems, shouldn't it be working fine ? thx by advance ^^ Reply
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#13
February 01, 2008, 04:18 PM
funky_kiwi
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
sorry, never mind, I havn't really understood what was wrong but I've found another way to make it work.
Yoshihara Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 65
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#14
February 22, 2008, 08:31 PM
CyRan Murakawa Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
I can't convert the .mesh 's in attachments and weapon library MESH_2_MS3D Non-standart file - Not Processed Hope someone can help me Reply
#15
February 23, 2008, 07:25 AM
KnightErrant
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Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Not sure what files you want to modify. Under data\unit_models\weapons_library I see some meshes. These are really small mesh files with only bone_Rhand and bone_weapon01 being mentioned. The mesh converters available only work with regular unit_models\_units types of humanoid models. After a quick look with a hex editor, these files follow a different format from the unit model files so that is probably why GrumpyOldMan's converter displays the error message you're seeing. That is, there looks to be vertex vectors at the beginning but after that can't really see a triangle data
section with group comments or anything else you usually see in a .mesh file. What is it you want to accomplish by modding these files? Reply
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#16
February 23, 2008, 12:19 PM
CyRan Murakawa Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
I need some single Helmets and Swords for my Model, and i thought i can find them there. [ I'm in the step in the Turoial where he modifies his swords and spears. ] It would be nice if someone could tell me where i find those swords and helmets. Edit: What do i have to add in the medieval.prefereces.cfg to see my changes?
Last edited by CyRan; February 23, 2008 at 01:20 PM.
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#17
June 16, 2008, 01:54 PM
Chim
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
The model shows up like this: Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Show
This is very annoying because I can't see what I'm doing. How do I remove all those blue lines? Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 5,335
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#18
June 17, 2008, 09:16 PM
Alletun
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Try looking on page 61 in the Tome.
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#19
June 18, 2008, 11:40 AM
Riannorix
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
Originally Posted by Chimaeira
The model shows up like this:
Suzuki Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: France Posts: 216
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Show
This is very annoying because I can't see what I'm doing. How do I remove all those blue lines?
Go to edition>>preference>>misc>>joint size>>0.025 if not alletun, when we want assign news vertexs to news bones, we must do the rigging? and correct me if i done a mistake but to do that i must selected some vertex + clik on joint and ctrl and i select the bone usefull and i click on assign. Is it that? Reply
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#20
June 18, 2008, 05:33 PM
Alletun
Re: Tutorial - How to edit M2TW MESH
with the select tool set to "faces", select the faces (not the vertices) you want to assign to a bone. Then click on the bone in the Joint tab and hit assign. No need to hold down ctrl or anything.
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Unit makers Tome of Knowledge:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127787 Warhammer: Total war modeller. Orc & Goblins (GREENSKINS!) creator http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90663&page=2 Third Age: Total war. Modeling and Skinning. Working on Isengard.
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