Derrick Johnson Partial Transcript

Case 2:08-cr-00427-MCE Document 433
Filed 07/06/11 Page 1 of 34
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
---oOo--BEFORE THE HONORABLE MORRISON C. ENGLAND, JR., JUDGE
---oOo--UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
vs.
No. 2:08-cr-00427
ALEXANDER POPOV,
RAMANATHAN PRAKASH, LANA
LE CHABRIER,
Defendants.
---oOo--REPORTER'S PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT

CROSS-EXAMINATION OF
DERRICK JOHNSON
TUESDAY, JUNE 7, 2011
---oOo---
Reported by:
DIANE J. SHEPARD, CSR #6331, RPR
DIANE J. SHEPARD, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 554-7460

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APPEARANCES
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For the Government:

BENJAMIN B. WAGNER
UNITED STATES ATTORNEY
501 I Street, Suite 10-100
Sacramento, California 95814
BY: PHILIP A. FERRARI
JEAN M. HOBLER
Assistant U.S. Attorneys
For the Defendant, Lana Le Chabrier

JAN DAVID KAROWSKY
Attorney at Law
716 19th Street, Suite 100
Sacramento, California 95811
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For the Defendant, Alexander Popov:

RICHARD ALAN MOSS
Attorney at Law
255 South Marengo Avenue
Pasadena, California 91101
For the Defendant, Ramanathan Prakash:

RONALD NEIL RICHARDS
Attorney at Law
P.O. Box 11480
Beverly Hills, California 90213
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SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA
TUESDAY, JUNE 7, 2011
PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT
---oOo---
DERRICK JOHNSON,
a witness called by the Government, having been first duly
sworn by the Clerk to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as follows:
MR. RICHARDS:
10
THE CLERK:
11
MR. RICHARDS:
12
Is my next exhibit number 806?
Yes.
I'd like to mark as Defense 806 and
approach the witness, please?
13
THE COURT:
14
(Defendants' Exhibit 806, Plea Agreement of Derrick
15
Yes.
Johnson, marked for identification.)
16
CROSS-EXAMINATION
17
BY MR. RICHARDS:
18
Q.
19
Let me just put it in front of you.
20
plea agreement.
21
Dr. Johnson, I'm going to show you a copy of 806.

This is a copy of your
Is that your signature on the plea agreement?
22
A.
Yes, it is.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
of facts there.
25
A.
If you could just take a look of the statement
The last paragraph?
Q.
The last paragraph.
A.
(Witness reviewing document.)
Q.
Now, on this plea agreement you didn't prepare the
statement of facts, did you?
A.
No.
Q.
And was this agreement that you signed -- this was
your agreement that you signed in connection with your guilty
plea in this case?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And in the agreement it states that you have -- your
11
exposure for pleading guilty is ten years, do you remember
12
that?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And when you first started working with the Richmond
15
clinic, you weren't aware of -- let me strike that.
16
Thanks.
Okay.
I've read it.
You never did any investigation into the status of
17
Dr. Teitelbaum, did you?
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
So some of these facts in the plea agreement, these
20
are facts that the Government put together that you ended up
21
signing, correct?
22
A.
I presume, yes.
23
MR. FERRARI:
24
THE COURT:
25
Q.
Objection.
Foundation.
Sustained.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Under the section factual basis for
the plea, do you know who prepared this?
A.
No.
Q.
Well, how did you get to this part of the document,
was it given to you by your lawyer?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did you have any input as to this section with
respect to the statement of facts?
A.
No, I did not.
Q.
So when you read the statement of facts, it was in
10
the plea agreement, and then you signed the plea agreement,
11
correct?
12
A.
Right.
13
Q.
So in the statement of facts when it mentioned
14
Dr. Teitelbaum, that he was not authorized to perform Medicare
15
reimbursed services at the clinic, that's not a fact that you
16
provided to the Government, correct?
17
A.
That's correct.
18
Q.
So when you started working at the clinic, at no time
19
did you ask Max for a list of the doctors so you could verify
20
their Medicare status, right?
21
A.
I never did.
22
Q.
All right.
23
medical license, right?
24
A.
That's correct.
25
Q.
And you live in Omaha?
Right now you presently don't have any
A.
Bellevue.
Q.
What are you doing for work now?
A.
I'm not.
Q.
What year did you start working in the Lafayette
clinic, do you remember?
A.
Maybe 2004, something like that.
Q.
So would it be fair to say that since 2004 to 2008
that you didn't practice medicine at all?
A.
That would be fair to say.
10
Q.
And would it be fair to say that during those four
11
years you basically took your position as a doctor and assisted
12
others in committing Medicare fraud?
13
A.
14
Part of the time, yes.

THE COURT:
We'll take our recess now.
It's 3:00.
15
Ladies and gentlemen, please remember your admonitions that
16
I've given you each day.
17
you.
18
(Jury out.)
19
(Break taken.)
20
(Jury in.)
21
THE COURT:
22
Q.
23
you Defense 806.
24
page, please.
25
A.
We'll be back in 20 minutes.
Thank
Proceed, please.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Thank you.
You have in front of
Can you just turn to the second to the last
On the top it says factual basis.
Sorry.
Could you repeat that?

1
Q.
see that?
A.
4
5
At the top of the page it says factual basis.
Do you
Yes.
MR. RICHARDS:
I move to admit 806, by the way.
It's
the plea agreement.
MR. FERRARI:
Well, as an initial matter, object on
hearsay and relevance, and also subject to any objections
raised by defense counsel to the extent they're concerned by
that.
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. MOSS:
12
Have you seen this factual basis?

Yes, Your Honor, I have.
And I'm not
objecting to it.
13
MR. KAROWSKY:
Nor am I.
14
MR. FERRARI:
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. RICHARDS:
17
(Defendants' Exhibit 806, Plea Agreement of Derrick
I'll withdraw the objection.

Thank you.
Then it will be admitted.
Thank you.
18
Johnson, admitted into evidence.)
19
Q.
20
factual basis because I just want to clarify what was within
21
your personal knowledge or what your lawyer gave you that the
22
Government wrote.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Now, let's take a look at the
23
When it says beginning no later than October --
24
Oh, can you turn the thing to my computer?
25
THE CLERK:
Yes.

1
Q.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
All right.
Thanks.
If you take a look here, (reading):
Beginning no later than October 5th, 2006, and continuing
through at least October 18th, 2007.
On those dates, you didn't provide those dates to the
Government for that, did you?
A.
No, I did not.
Q.
(Reading):
participated in a scheme to defraud Medicare, a healthcare
10
The defendant, Derrick Johnson,
benefit program.
11
You didn't write that language, did you?
12
A.
No, I did not.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
never provided the dates of your involvement, meaning the
15
beginning date and the ending date, those were just given to
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you, correct?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
(Reading):
19
another physician were associated in a healthcare clinic
20
located at 120 Broadway, Suites 4A and 4B, in Richmond,
21
California.
22
And prior to signing this plea agreement, you
Over this time period Dr. Johnson and
Now you didn't tell the Government that address,
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correct?
24
A.
No, I did not.
25
Q.
And when you signed the plea agreement, you don't
know if that address is correct or not, do you?
A.
No, I do not.
Q.
All right.
you signed it.
with it.
and what you didn't give.
I'm going to get to what you said when
But I'm not trying to impeach or embarrass you
I just want to establish what information you gave
(Reading):
The clinic was owned and operated by
co-defendants Vardges Egiazarian, Migran Petrosyan, and
Khachatur Arutunyan.
10
You didn't know any of these people by those names,
11
did you?
12
A.
No, I did not.
13
Q.
And you didn't give the Government those names
14
either, did you?
15
A.
No, I did not.
16
Q.
(Reading):
17
claims were submitted to Medicare relating to patients the
18
physicians did not treat, seeking reimbursement for procedures
19
that were either unnecessary or never performed.
20
And while this clinic was in operation,
Now you don't know how many claims were submitted to
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Medicare from that clinic, do you?
22
A.
No, I do not.
23
Q.
And you don't know what conversations these
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individuals had with other physicians, correct?
25
A.
Correct.

1
Q.
Filed 07/06/11 Page 10 of 34
And Dr. Prakash, can you stand up for a minute?

Do you know my client at all?
A.
The gentleman standing?
Q.
Have you ever met him before?
A.
No, I have not.
Q.
Thank you.
identify Dr. Prakash.
8
9
No, I do not.
Just let the record reflect he did not
(Reading):
Co-defendant Petrosyan hired both
Dr. Johnson and co-defendant Dr. Lana Le Chabrier.
10
Now, you have no personal knowledge that's true,
11
correct?
12
A.
I was hired.
13
Q.
Right.
14
don't know that the other physician referenced in there was
15
hired, correct?
16
A.
No, I do not.
17
Q.
That was just a fact that the Government put in the
18
plea agreement that your attorney gave you that you signed,
19
right?
20
A.
That's correct.
21
Q.
(Reading):
22
Dr. Johnson and Dr. Le Chabrier both opened bank accounts for
23
the purpose of receiving payment on Medicare claims.
24
25
10
Except for you.
But you don't know -- you
In connection with their employment,
Now, you know that you opened a bank account, right?

A.
Right.

1
Q.
correct?
A.
11
Filed 07/06/11 Page 11 of 34
But you don't know that the other doctor did,
Correct.
MR. FERRARI:
Objection.
Relevance.
THE COURT:
(Begin sidebar conference.)
THE COURT:
Counsel, approach sidebar, please.
I'm not sure if you should let him know
to have his attorney here.
agreement and factual basis, I don't know if that's a valid
10
If we're going to tear up his plea
plea.
11
I don't know where this is going right now.
He
12
doesn't know.
13
him because he's under oath, and he's saying things about a
14
plea agreement that he has already taken under oath.
15
don't know where this is going right now.
16
And I think that somebody might want to talk to
MR. FERRARI:
And I
Your Honor, as an initial matter,
17
Dr. Johnson's attorney is here and present in the gallery.
18
Warriner.
19
THE COURT:
Mr. Warriner.
20
(Mr. Tim Warriner joins bench conference.)
21
THE COURT:
Tim
Thank you.
Mr. Warriner, I just told counsel that
22
I'm concerned about your client being on the stand under oath.
23
And I don't know where this is going, but it sounds like he may
24
be refuting things that he has already agreed to under oath as
25
a part of his plea agreement in the factual basis.
He's saying

1
I don't know and I don't think this is true.
concerned where we're heading with this.
MR. FERRARI:
12
Filed 07/06/11 Page 12 of 34

I'm just
Your Honor, if I could interject a
point on that.
agreement or any of his plea proceedings as a statement by the
defendant but rather as a summary of what the Government could
prove if this case were to go to trial.
8
9
10
The factual basis is not set forth in that plea
There's never any indication made that the defendant

can personally attest to all of the statements in the factual
basis put forth in the plea agreement.
11
There is an agreement that he agrees to the best of
12
his knowledge that these things are true, and the Government
13
could prove it if they went to trial.
14
assertion that that's the truth.
15
MR. WARRINER:
But there's never any
That's how it was presented.
This is
16
the evidence that the Government would prove if it went to
17
trial.
18
THE COURT:
My concern is not so far but where this
19
is going to go.
20
put into evidence and where we're going to go through each and
21
every part of it.
22
23
I don't know.
MR. FERRARI:
objection.
24
25
I don't know if I've never had a factual basis
I'm just thinking ahead.
That's why I made the relevance
I don't understand.
MR. RICHARDS:
A plea agreement is very relevant and
I don't --

1
2
MR. FERRARI:
A plea agreement is relevant.
Talking
about going through every line of the factual basis.
3
4
13
Filed 07/06/11 Page 13 of 34
THE COURT:
That's the part that I'm having concern
because this is a multiple defendant plea that he took.
MS. HOBLER:
What this is really based upon is the
Government produced discovery, and this defendant, in
conjunction with his oath, took that and agreed that all of
these things could be proven based on the material's produced
by the Government.
I don't think that really actually helps
10
the defendants here, and I don't know that it's at all that
11
relevant for the jury to hear everything that this person
12
agreed to in a factual basis.
13
that's going to be entered against these defendants.
14
think that's useful for them.
15
road --
16
MR. RICHARDS:
Because the Government had proof

I don't
If they want to go down that
I know why I want to go down the road,
17
and I have a lot of reasons, but I've got to get there.
18
certainly tell the Court in camera.
19
tell the Government before, but I can tell you that this is
20
legitimate cross-examination.
It's not the first time I've
21
gone through a factual basis.
I'm trying to establish what
22
this doctor knew and didn't know when he was part of this
23
scheme.
24
THE COURT:
25
MR. KAROWSKY:
I can
I don't think I need to
Mr. Karowsky.
Your Honor, first of all, I have no
14
Filed 07/06/11 Page 14 of 34
objection to this, and I know there could be an objection.
doing it for a tactical reason.
And
And I want the record to reflect that, moreover, I
think that when the Court goes through its own plea colloquy --
and I'm certainly not going to put words in this Court's mouth
-- but my understanding of the plea colloquy that I've engaged
in with this Court is that you ask the defendant:
reviewed the factual basis and is that true and correct?
That's my understanding.
Have you
That's where the Court started.
10
Now I think that the witness may be advised by his
11
counsel, you know, that in fact he was admitting because the
12
Government can prove it.
13
colloquy is the Court goes through what I just said.
14
15
MR. FERRARI:
But my understanding of the plea
That's a basis of impeachment?
Every
one of your clients does that.
16
MR. KAROWSKY:
17
THE COURT:
I'm not saying basis for impeachment.
I'm trying to get ahead of where this is
18
going and where it's heading and before we get too far down the
19
road.
20
And I can't unring this bell right now with this jury.
I want to find out where this is going and what
21
effect it's going to have on your client potentially or
22
anything else that's happening here.
23
I'm just hearing it, and I'm seeing a plea agreement
24
factual basis up on the screen with Mr. Karowsky's client's
25
name on it and other names here, that have been sworn under

1
oath by this defendant as being true and correct.
Confrontation issue.
that are coming up here.
Defense?
I'm just saying there is a lot of things
MR. MOSS:
THE COURT:
MR. RICHARDS:
15
Filed 07/06/11 Page 15 of 34
And if you're waiving them all?
Yes.
Waiving all these issues?
I'm just going through the statements
that he made in the plea agreement.
MR. FERRARI:
I think in response to the relevance
10
objection he does have an obligation to put forth a proffer of
11
why it's relevant.
12
MR. RICHARDS:
13
MR. FERRARI:
14
MR. RICHARDS:
Who?
You.
The plea agreement's in evidence.
15
can't ask him questions about the plea agreement in evidence?
16
I'm not understanding what I'm doing wrong.
17
through the plea agreement to establish what he knew and he
18
didn't know.
19
past that.
20
factual basis.
That's all I'm doing.
MR. FERRARI:
22
MR. RICHARDS:
24
25
I'm not going to get in
I'm going to show what he contributed to this
21
23
I'm just going
Why is this relevant?

It's relevant to show that the doctors
that this group was using didn't communicate with each other.
MR. FERRARI:
You've already established that.
You
just asked that.

1
MR. RICHARDS:
through the plea agreement.
cross-examination?
THE COURT:
16
I don't understand why I can't go
Filed 07/06/11 Page 16 of 34
Do you get to write my
There are a lot more issues being raised
by this now, going through this factual basis.
MR. RICHARDS:
If the witness says these facts are
true in his plea agreement, under penalty of perjury -- and I
haven't even got to his attestation -- and he's saying I didn't
contribute this, I have no personal knowledge of it, doesn't go
10
to credibility --
11
MR. WARRINGER:
12
(End in sidebar conference.)
13
THE COURT:
14
this lengthy delay.
I think it's a 402 problem.
Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize for

Just a moment.
15
(Begin sidebar conference.)
16
THE COURT:
But where you've gone into is a 403 issue
17
because you're now taking this jury into an area that can be
18
totally confusing.
19
out of this factual basis is substantially outweighed by
20
confusion of the jury, misleading the jury, undue consumption
21
of time.
22
And the probative value that you're getting
There are other ways to get what you just told me as
23
a proffer for doing this.
24
a new subject matter under 403.
25
I'm ruling that you must move on to

That's my ruling.
(End sidebar conference.)

BY MR. RICHARDS:
Filed 07/06/11 Page 17 of 34
17
Q.
Did you have any personal
interactions with Dr. Teitelbaum at any time?
A.
No, I did not.
Q.
Now with respect to your plea agreement, there is a
provision in there that deals with your benefits that you're
going to receive if the Government files a motion.
your understanding?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
Yes.
10
A.
I don't see it specifically.
11
Q.
I'm just asking you if you have an understanding?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
I'll get to the section.
14
is that if you testify truthfully, then the Government has the
15
option of filing this motion?
16
A.
17
truthfully, and the Government may submit something.
18
Q.
19
you said you read this plea agreement and carefully reviewed
20
every part of it with your attorney, and where you said no
21
other promises have been made -- you testified about some other
22
crime you committed with wheelchair referrals?
23
A.
24
I didn't say it was a crime.
25
Q.
Is that
Pursuant to 5K1.1?
In this, you mean?
You're just asking me?
And so your understanding
My understanding is that I'm obligated to testify
Okay.
And this admonition above your signature where
I said I referred patients to receive a wheelchair.
Were they legitimate referrals?

I referred patients.
Filed 07/06/11 Page 18 of 34
A.
yes.
Q.
No.
A.
No.
Q.
So they -- those were -- those weren't legitimate
then referrals either, right?
A.
No.
Q.
And did the Government promise you that they're not
going to charge you with that?
18
I was very clear about that,
But I mean were they patients that you met?
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
So did you figure out if you're going to get charged
12
with these referrals?
13
A.
I don't know.
14
Q.
Well, when you went -- when you went to the Lafayette
15
-- when you went to the Lafayette clinic, when you first
16
started there, you said you didn't recognize there was fraud,
17
correct?
18
A.
Right.
19
Q.
And prior to the Lafayette clinic where did you work
20
at?
21
A.
22
clinics in the L.A. area.
23
Q.
24
Lafayette clinic was there any fraud going on there?
25
A.
Mostly at L.A. Metropolitan Hospital and some private
All right.
And at the prior clinic before the
No.
Filed 07/06/11 Page 19 of 34
19
Q.
So that was the first time that you had -- the
Lafayette clinic was the first clinic that you had experienced
some sort of fraud with Medicare?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Now this is the section of your plea agreement that
says that the Government at the time of sentencing can reduce
up to 50 percent the applicable guideline sentence if you
provide substantial assistance to the Government.
that?
Do you see
10
A.
I'm looking.
I see it.
11
Q.
All right.
12
agreement before you signed it?
13
A.
14
five.
15
Q.
16
of health and other reasons that you've been desperate for
17
money?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
And in this particular case, isn't it true that
20
you're aware that if the Government is unhappy with your
21
testimony because they find it untruthful, then they're not
22
going to file this motion?
23
A.
24
agreement does not apply or attach or something like that.
25
Q.
How many times did you read this plea
I don't remember exactly.
A few times.
Less than
And since 2004 would it be fair to say that because
It's my understanding if I'm untruthful this -- the
All right.
You haven't been sentenced in this case
Filed 07/06/11 Page 20 of 34
20
yet, correct?
A.
No.
Q.
And at what point did you find out -- or do you
believe that you will be sentenced in this case?
A.
I'm not sure.
Q.
Well, do you know if you're going to have to pay any
restitution for any of the Medicare fraud that you caused?
A.
Yes.
Q.
From the Lafayette clinic or just from the Richmond
I'm subject to -- for the restitution, yes.
10
Clinic?
11
A.
12
case.
13
Q.
14
Lafayette clinic, those you're not going to have to pay,
15
correct?
16
A.
There's no case outstanding from that.
17
Q.
In other words, you got away with that crime?
From the Richmond Clinic.
Okay.
The facts stated in this
So the profits that you received from the
18
MR. FERRARI:
19
THE COURT:
Objection.
Argumentative.
Sustained.
20
Q.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
That offense, you weren't charged
21
ever, correct?
22
A.
That's correct.
23
Q.
Do you know how much money it cost Medicare for that
24
offense?
25
A.
No, I do not.
Filed 07/06/11 Page 21 of 34
Q.
Max.
A.
Yes.
Q.
And isn't it true that you called Susan because you
wanted to make sure you were getting your full 15 percent?
A.
money was coming from Medicare to the bank account for the
point of getting -- of finding out 15 percent, right.
Q.
21
Now you mentioned a Susan that was the biller for

Do you remember that?
I wanted to find out how I could check on how much
But your, let's say, arrangement with this group was
10
that you would get 15 percent of all the billings, right?
11
A.
Of the amount of money that they paid, right.
12
Q.
And unlike the Lafayette clinic, you didn't have
13
control over this account, did you?
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
No, you didn't have control?
16
A.
I -- I had control of the checks.
17
Q.
But how did you get your 15 percent?
18
A.
I wrote a check to myself.
19
Q.
Did someone else have the ability to take out the
20
rest of the money?
21
A.
Well, Max had checks that I had pre-signed.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
you a run?
24
A.
What's --
25
Q.
Like a run of how many charges there were?
So did you ask Susan to call Medicare to get
22
A.
number to call so that I could get that run information -- I
think you're referring to -- from the computer for myself.
Q.
she?
A.
I did.
Q.
All right.
was it on the phone?
A.
Just on the phone.
10
Q.
So you don't even know what she looks like, right?
11
A.
I do not.
12
Q.
And when you first met Max at the office on Riverside
13
Drive, where the Government showed a picture, you knew from
14
that meeting that there was going to be fraud at the Richmond
15
clinic, right?
16
A.
Yes, I did.
17
Q.
And you don't know -- you don't have any idea -- let
18
me strike that.
19
No.
Filed 07/06/11 Page 22 of 34
I asked her what my number was and the telephone
And did you make the phone call to Medicare or did
And did you ever meet her in person or
When you saw -- you say you looked at a couple files.
20
Do you remember that testimony?
That Max brought you a couple
21
files when you were in the home?
22
A.
Charts?
23
Q.
Charts, yes.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Do you remember how many charts you looked at?
23
Filed 07/06/11 Page 23 of 34
A.
Not exactly.
Q.
But you said you did spend some time looking through
the charts?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
number, so you wanted to see the tests and findings that were
being done at that time, correct?
A.
anything else that was in there, so that's what I did.
And you want -- your name was on the provider
I was directed to sign all the tests and to co-sign

And I
10
looked at the results to try and make sure that they made
11
sense.
12
Q.
13
you actually read the charts, right?
14
A.
To a certain degree, yes.
15
Q.
And if you wanted to, you could have told Max, "I
16
don't want to sign these charts, they're just too silly,"
17
right?
18
A.
Sorta no.
19
Q.
You were compelled to sign them?
20
A.
I financially was extremely desperate.
21
Q.
So would it be fair to say that Max was aware that
22
you were financially desperate?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
Do you feel that Max took advantage of you because of
25
your financial desperation?
But you just didn't close your eyes and blindly sign,
Filed 07/06/11 Page 24 of 34
24
A.
I'm an adult.
Q.
Well, did you convey to Max during the period of you
knowing him that you were desperate for money?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And did you convey -- when you testified earlier, you
said you wanted to go there and actually see patients to try to
earn more money, and he made it difficult, right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And when you went to the -- when you did the Medicare
10
run, do you remember how much charges were being billed under
11
your provider number?
12
A.
13
I had been -- that it jibed with what I had been receiving.
14
Q.
15
in that interview, wasn't your goal of the interview to let him
16
know that you knew how to assist in a fraudulent operation?
17
A.
I don't understand what you're asking.
18
Q.
Let me back up.
19
for him to get to know you and you to get to know him?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
And what were you evaluating with respect to Max,
22
with respect to why -- what factors were you looking at to see
23
whether you wanted to commit this fraud with him?
24
A.
Just to see what he was offering.
25
Q.
As far as your cut?
I don't remember the numbers.
I just made sure that
But when you met -- when you met Max the first time
When you met Max, wasn't the meeting
Filed 07/06/11 Page 25 of 34
25
A.
No.
As far as the whole operation.
Q.
And did you disclose to Max during that meeting that
you were effective at getting fraudulent bills through
Medicare?
A.
No, I did not.
Q.
What did you tell him, if anything, that you had to
offer with respect to helping him commit this crime?
A.
but I didn't go in and say "I offer to help you with this
I didn't -- I'm not trying to be disagreeable to you,
10
crime."
I just said that I had a license, a DEA number, and
11
that I was -- that I could get a Medi-Cal provider number --
12
Medicare, rather, provider number.
13
represented.
14
Q.
15
difficult as far as signing files?
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
Did you represent that you had worked -- did you tell
18
Max you had worked at a prior clinic where they did basically
19
the same thing?
20
A.
21
The gentlemen that took me out there, the people I knew had had
22
contact with Max already.
23
about me.
24
Q.
25
discuss -- isn't it true those two gentlemen had knowledge that
And that's all I
Didn't you represent that you weren't going to be
It wasn't discussed.
I didn't discuss anything from my previous history.
I don't know what they told him
But weren't those two gentlemen -- did you ever
Filed 07/06/11 Page 26 of 34
26
you had worked in a prior fraud at the Lafayette clinic?
A.
Yes, they did.
Q.
So when they were introducing to you Max, it was --
you were being introduced as the type of doctor that would play
ball, right?
6
7
MR. FERRARI:
Argumentative.
Calls for
speculation.
8
9
Objection.
THE COURT:
Q.
Sustained.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
You were introduced as the type of
10
doctor that would sign off on charges without -- charges that
11
you knew were fraudulent?
12
A.
13
happened at that meeting.
14
number.
15
north, and that he would get back to me.
16
Q.
17
didn't have to be disclosed that you were committing fraud?
18
A.
I'm sorry.
19
Q.
If there wasn't an -- it says that you guys -- you
20
told me you talked about the fact that you were going to get
21
15 percent of the charges, right?
22
A.
Right.
23
Q.
And at the meeting, was your job duties discussed at
24
that meeting with respect to how you would earn the 15 percent?
25
A.
I don't know what they told him.
That's not what
I told him I could get a Medicare
He told me he was planning on opening a clinic up

That was it.
Well, at what point -- so what was the reason why it
I don't understand.
No.
Filed 07/06/11 Page 27 of 34
Q.
you'd have to do to earn the 15 percent?
A.
nursing home, and I was taken back there after the meeting.
And the two doctors that I mentioned that I knew, who were
friends with Max, would come and tell me things.
that much contact with Max at first.
they asked me to do.
Q.
27
So at what point did you -- were you told as to what
Over time they -- at that time, I was still in the
I didn't have
And I would just do what
Why were these two doctor friends of yours helping
10
you?
11
A.
I couldn't do any of that for myself.
12
Q.
Were these doctor friends of yours that had committed
13
this fraud in the past with you?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
So they were just basically doing you a favor because
16
of your condition, is that fair to say?
17
A.
That's fair to say.
18
Q.
How come they didn't work with Max, if you know?
19
A.
I believe one couldn't get a number and something
20
happened with the other guy.
21
Q.
22
referral fee as part of your fees?
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
Did you give them anything for introducing you to
25
Max?
Did these doctor friends of yours ask you for a
Filed 07/06/11 Page 28 of 34
28
A.
No.
Q.
How much money did you make from Max during the time
that you were working with him?
A.
I don't know.
Q.
You don't have any estimate?
A.
It wasn't that much.
Q.
So in the plea agreement when it says you were there
for almost a year, it wasn't continual work for a year, is that
fair to say?
10
A.
It was episodic, right.
11
Q.
And would it be fair or unfair to say that in your
12
discussions with Max that he didn't discuss any of his
13
conversations he had with other doctors with respect to what
14
they were doing, correct?
15
A.
Correct, I believe, yes.
16
Q.
And that -- when you went through -- besides Max, did
17
you ever meet anybody else that was involved in the criminal
18
part of this group?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Who was that?
21
A.
I'm not sure of his name.
22
a guy with him one time when he brought charts that I was told
23
worked up north with him.
24
at that meeting briefly.
25
Q.
A gentleman -- he brought
A younger guy.
And I met him once
But that's the only person.
But would it be fair or unfair to say that the rest
Filed 07/06/11 Page 29 of 34
29
of the people in this were kept secret from you, is that a fair
statement?
A.
care facility.
anywhere, and I didn't meet anyone else.
Q.
Max made it difficult for you, right?
A.
make it very difficult.
I guess.
I mean, I was in the nursing home then, the
Max was the only one that came by.
I didn't go
But the one time that you tried to go to the clinic,
When I was talking to him about going, yes, he did

Right.
10
Q.
And you testified and as -- you testified you didn't
11
even know where this clinic is, right?
12
A.
That's correct, yes.
13
Q.
So even if you wanted to go, it would have been
14
difficult for you to get around, right?
15
A.
16
well enough to go at that time, actually.
17
Q.
So Max sort of knew that he had you cornered?
18
A.
I'm sure he did.
19
Q.
Did you and Max -- when you closed the bank account
20
you said he was mad, right?
21
A.
Yes, he was.
22
Q.
And did Max ever try and physically intimidate you?
23
A.
Oh, no.
24
Q.
No?
25
A.
No.
It would have been physically impossible.
I wasn't
Filed 07/06/11 Page 30 of 34
30
Q.
Isn't it true you mentioned to the FBI you were
afraid of Max because of something?
A.
what his background was and that there may be something to be
worried about, yes.
Q.
But nothing that he ever did?
A.
No.
Q.
So would it be fair to unfair to say that the biggest
leverage Max had over you was your unavailability to cash?
I told them I didn't know.
I told them I didn't know
He never came at me or anything like that, no.
10
A.
Are you saying financially strapped?
11
Q.
Financially strapped, right.
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
You mentioned that you had a prescription drug
14
addiction, was that during this time?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
When did that end?
17
A.
April 1st, 2000.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
The financial -- the financially strapped part was
21
simply a result of your physical limitations?
22
A.
23
in the hospital for a majority of several months, between that
24
and nursing homes, and it drained all my money, and I wasn't
25
working.
Yes.
So that has nothing to do with this?
Because I hadn't been working, and then because I was
Filed 07/06/11 Page 31 of 34
31
Q.
When did you first find out that the Government was
investigating your work at the clinic?
A.
When I was arrested.
Q.
So it came as a total surprise to you, correct?
A.
Sort of.
Q.
Well, prior to that had Max or anybody contacted you
and said, hey, the Government's calling about something?
A.
No.
Q.
So once you closed the account, would it be fair or
Not in that way, no.
10
unfair to say you never heard from Max again after he got mad
11
at you for closing it, but, I mean, shortly thereafter?
12
A.
13
after that no contact.
14
Q.
15
provider number, there was no reason to talk to you anymore,
16
right?
17
A.
That's correct.
18
Q.
And when you first agreed to do this and you saw
19
other doctors' notes in the file, did you ever ask Max if you
20
can call any of these other doctors?
21
A.
No, I didn't.
22
Q.
So it seems apparent that you were just very
23
cooperative in doing what Max needed you to do to keep
24
submitting these claims, is that a true statement?
25
A.
Shortly thereafter there were a couple calls, but
So once they didn't have any need to use your
That's a very true statement.

1
Q.
Filed 07/06/11 Page 32 of 34
32
Just one moment, Your Honor.

I just want to talk to you for a minute about
forgeries.
You indicated to the FBI that Dr. McBay was
proficient at forging your signature, is that true?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And isn't it true that you've seen documents related
to this case into this clinic that appear to have your
signature forged on them?
A.
I believe so, yes.
10
Q.
So it's very possible that Max and his cohorts forged
11
your signature a couple times, right?
12
A.
Somebody did.
13
Q.
Would it you surprise you if there were things
14
submitted under your name that you didn't know about?
15
MR. FERRARI:
16
THE COURT:
Objection.
Vague.
Sustained.
17
Q.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
18
were submitted to Medicare without you knowing about it?
19
A.
In a way, yes.
20
Q.
Because you knew that once you were dealing with
21
people like this, that anything could happen?
22
A.
23
trying to answer your question -- but once you lie down with
24
dogs, you get fleas, and that's it, so.
25
Q.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Would it surprise you if documents
In a way, no.
I mean, it's the old -- I'm really
Now, you heard the questions Mr. Ferrari asked you
Filed 07/06/11 Page 33 of 34
33
about the fact that you looked at these charts and that you saw
some of these tests that you hadn't seen.
You're not -- if you had wanted to see the clinic,
see if it was a legitimate clinic, you could have done that
before you agreed to do this, right?
Strike that.
But in your case because of your physical limitations
that was going to be impossible for you to ever verify, for you
to ever have a site visit, right?
A.
That's correct.
10
Q.
So you don't even know if your name was on the door,
11
do you?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
All right.
14
simply because you chose to do things this way that every
15
doctor involved in this case had knowledge there was some fraud
16
going on, are you?
17
A.
18
know about me.
No.
And you're not in any way suggesting
I'm only attesting -- right.
19
MR. RICHARDS:
20
(End of partial transcript.)
I only attest to what I
Thank you.
21
22
23
24
25

1
Filed 07/06/11 Page 34 of 34
34
CERTIFICATION
2
3
I, Diane J. Shepard, certify that the foregoing is a
correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the
above-entitled matter.
6
7
8
9
10
/s/ DIANE J. SHEPARD

DIANE J. SHEPARD, CSR #6331, RPR
Official Court Reporter
United States District Court
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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Case 2:08-cr-00427-MCE Document 433

Filed 07/06/11 Page 1 of 34

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

---oOo--REPORTER'S PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT

DIANE J. SHEPARD, CSR #6331, RPR

DIANE J. SHEPARD, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 554-7460

Case 2:08-cr-00427-MCE Document 433

Filed 07/06/11 Page 2 of 34

For the Government:

For the Defendant, Lana Le Chabrier

For the Defendant, Alexander Popov:

For the Defendant, Ramanathan Prakash:

DIANE J. SHEPARD, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 554-7460

Case 2:08-cr-00427-MCE Document 433

Filed 07/06/11 Page 3 of 34

TUESDAY, JUNE 7, 2011

a witness called by the Government, having been first duly

nothing but the truth, testified as follows:

Is my next exhibit number 806?

approach the witness, please?

(Defendants' Exhibit 806, Plea Agreement of Derrick

Johnson, marked for identification.)

Let me just put it in front of you.

Dr. Johnson, I'm going to show you a copy of 806.

Is that your signature on the plea agreement?

If you could just take a look of the statement

The last paragraph?

DIANE J. SHEPARD, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 554-7460

Case 2:08-cr-00427-MCE Document 433

Filed 07/06/11 Page 4 of 34

The last paragraph.

(Witness reviewing document.)

Now, on this plea agreement you didn't prepare the

statement of facts, did you?

And was this agreement that you signed -- this was

your agreement that you signed in connection with your guilty

plea in this case?

And in the agreement it states that you have -- your

exposure for pleading guilty is ten years, do you remember

And when you first started working with the Richmond

clinic, you weren't aware of -- let me strike that.

I've read it.

You never did any investigation into the status of

Dr. Teitelbaum, did you?

So some of these facts in the plea agreement, these

Under the section factual basis for

DIANE J. SHEPARD, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 554-7460

Case 2:08-cr-00427-MCE Document 433

Filed 07/06/11 Page 5 of 34

the plea, do you know who prepared this?

Well, how did you get to this part of the document,

was it given to you by your lawyer?

Did you have any input as to this section with

respect to the statement of facts?

No, I did not.

So when you read the statement of facts, it was in

So in the statement of facts when it mentioned

Dr. Teitelbaum, that he was not authorized to perform Medicare

reimbursed services at the clinic, that's not a fact that you

provided to the Government, correct?

So when you started working at the clinic, at no time

their Medicare status, right?

medical license, right?

And you live in Omaha?