Debate - 9/11 Forensic Evidence, Holocaust Denial & Freedom of Thought

What follows is a debate regarding the forensic evidence related to
9/11, holocaust denial, and freedom of thought. A Muslim using the

name Ansar is debating with three Zionists. Their purpose was to
counter the forensic evidence discrediting the official 9/11 story
presented by Ansar.
The debate starts off with a discussion about the March, 2005 issue
of Popular Mechanics (PM) propagandistic cover story entitled
"Debunking 9/11 Lies", which sought to discredit all independent
9/11 research that challenged the official version of the 9/11 event.
This was an open debate on the Crunchyroll forum, and as such

other members of the forum could make comments. Some of those
comments have been included. I think it is of particular importance
to take note of the techniques employed by the three Zionists at
different points in the debate to discredit the 9/11 forensic evidence
presented. These techniques are addressed by Ansar. I believe you
will find this to be a very interesting read especially for those who
are not familiar with the 9/11 forensic evidence. Make sure to check
out the links referred to in the debate. Most surprising of all is how
the debate ends.
**********************************************************************************
“There are tons of people who wrote books and are already
debunking popular mechanics and there are many who are also
questioning how they did their research. “
leviathan343 wrote:
So apparently a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their computers is more credible than
Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and technology since 1902?
Fine, I'll bite - let's see the 'tons of people' of who wrote books that debunks Popular Mechanics. Link
please.
Edit Permalink Reply Quote
Posted Sep 7, 2008, edited Sep 7, 2008
leviathan343 wrote:
So apparently a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their computers is
Ansar more credible than Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and
43 cr points technology since 1902?
Send Message:
34
I find this discussion about the Popular Mechanics article very interesting. I
also find the labeling such as "a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at
home on their computers" very extremist and judgmental. Contrast that with
"Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and technology since
1902". Well without saying so we are being told who the bad guy and the
good guy is. Nice ploy used in the wording to influence the mind but does it
represent reality?
Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for
Popular Mechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our
Homeland Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future
reference. His mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a
Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies
caught around the time of 9/11 and the Israeli Mossad agents who were
caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks, celebrating, hi-fying and dancing
with glee -- while the WTC towers were burning and thousands of
Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and deported to
Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an
agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of
the 9/11 attacks.
Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular
Mechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the
establishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff,
Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure Mike's job is
very secure. )
Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics,

Benjamin Chertoff could be charged with collusion. What is also most
interesting is how he reacted when an investigative journalist confronted
him about this.
Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to
repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's
"senior researcher," directly.
Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was
related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about
discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should
be put to the publicist, the one who never answers the phone.
Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if
Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes,
of course, he is a cousin."
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176
Permalink Reply Quote

Ansar wrote:

more credible than Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and
technology since 1902?
leviathan343
2633 cr points
I find this discussion about the Popular Mechanics article very interesting. I also find
Send Message: the labeling such as "a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their
19 / M / New York City, computers" very extremist and judgmental. Contrast that with "Popular Mechanics, a
NY magazine dedicated to science and technology since 1902". Well without saying so
we are being told who the bad guy and the good guy is. Nice ploy used in the
wording to influence the mind but does it represent reality?
Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for Popular
Mechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our Homeland
Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future reference. His mother
was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli
citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies caught around the time of 9/11 and
the Israeli Mossad agents who were caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks,
celebrating, hi-fying and dancing with glee -- while the WTC towers were burning
and thousands of Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and
deported to Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an
agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11
attack.
Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics
seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of
9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin
ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. )
Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics, Benjamin
Chertoff could be charged with collusion. What is also most interesting is how he
reacted when an investigative journalist confronted him about this.
be put to the publicist â€“ the one who never answers the phone.
Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop making
personal attacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwilling to address the
issue is because people are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions like
the one you are making right now. I've noticed that you claimed the article is
seriously flawed, but yet you haven't posted a single example why.
In other words, stop trolling.

Posted Sep 7, 2008
leviathan343 wrote:
Ansar Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop making
43 cr points personal attacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwilling to address the
issue is because people are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions like
Send Message:
the one you are making right now. I've noticed that you claimed the article is
34
seriously flawed, but yet you haven't posted a single example why.
Haha... In other words you should learn to READ FOR

COMPREHENSION!!! Obviously you missed what I wrote to manufacture
your own deception. Simply amazing! Let me just show you a few facts that
you missed:
1. Michael Chertoff is the Homeland Security chief

2. Michael Chertoff was responsible for releasing more than 200 Israeli
spies who the FBI initially arrested and believed had something to do with
9/11
3. Michel Chertoff mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent and his father a
Rabbi
4. Michael Chertoff has dual U.S. and Israeli citizenship. (In other words he
is an Israeli firster and hard core Zionist)
5. The position of Homeland Security chief is based on the establishment
version about the events of 9/11
6. Benjamin Chertoff is Michael Chertoff's cousin
7. Benjamin Chertoff wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed and
much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11
8. Benjamin Chertoff initially LIED about Michael Chertoff being his cousin
Seems like there are 8 facts that you missed and perhaps more. I suggest
that you re-read my post for more or backup your claims by proving what I
wrote to not be facts. Now if you wanted me to point out the flaws in the
Popular Mechanics article you could have humbly and courteously asked
w/o calling me a troll. Rather than make this post too long to cause you to
get confused again, I will make a second post. How's that?

leviathan343 wrote:
Ansar Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop making personal
43 cr points attacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwilling to address the issue is because
people are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions like the one you are making
Send Message: right now. I've noticed that you claimed the article is seriously flawed, but yet you
34 haven't posted a single example why.
There are numerous flaws in the Popular Mechanics article and a few that I
will quickly mention are below. I will also point you to two articles for more
info:
1. The buildings fell at near free fall speed as if they were falling at the
speed of gravity. Even with Popular Mechanics false claim about melted
steel and pancaking effect that is impossible. There would be significant
friction from the opposing structure of the building to slow down the
demolition like fall of the building to be nowhere near free fall or it won't fall
that way at all.
2. Only way for the WTC buildings to fall as they did on 9/11 was for them to
be pre-wired for demolition and a substance like thermate used to cut the
steel columns to allow the near free fall speed of the collapse of the
building. Physicist, Dr. Steven Jones proved from the existence of molten
steel that the same byproducts of a thermate reaction were found.
3. Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers,

media, etc. were made regarding bombs going off in the building. Exactly
the MO that will explain what would cause the buildings to collapse the way
they did.
4. What caused WTC 7 to fall EXACTLY the same way as the other two
towers that were hit by planes? After all WTC 7 was not hit by a plane but it
had the exact same symptoms as the 2 other buildings that were hit.
5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly were
pancaked demolished as a result of fire. There are numerous reports about
other high rise buildings that burned for several hours much longer than the
WTC towers did but they never collapsed as they did. Why?
6. The Pentagon was supposedly hit by a plane. Nowhere near was the
damage observed by planes hitting the WTC in NY nor was there any
evidence that a plane the size of a 767 actually hit the Pentagon.
There are more, but I will start here. One article debunking the Popular
Mechanics theory nicely points out:
"But the March 2005 issue of Popular Mechanics (PM) plumbs new
depths of nepotism and Hearst-style "yellow journalism" with its cover
story about 9/11. PM's senior researcher, 25-year-old Benjamin
Chertoff, authored a propagandistic cover story entitled "Debunking
9/11 Lies" which seeks to discredit all independent 9/11 research that
challenges the official version of events.
"Conspiracy theories can't stand up to the hard facts," the cover

reads. "After an in-depth investigation, PM answers with the truth," it
says. But the article fails to provide evidence to support its claims and
doesn't answer the key question: What caused the collapses of the
twin towers and the 47-story World Trade Center 7?
The lead editorial by James Meigs, Editor-in-Chief of PM carries the

title "The Lies Are Out There." It continues: "As a society we accept
the basic premise that a group of Islamist terrorists hijacked four
airplanes and turned them into weapons against us."
"But do we, "as a society" accept this basic premise? None of the 19
"Islamist terrorists" were even found on the passenger lists that day."
"Sadly," Meigs continues, "the noble search for truth is now being
hijacked by a growing army of conspiracy theorists."
"What Meigs fails to acknowledge is that while the fact that a
conspiracy is behind the 9/11 attacks is obvious, the question being
raised by independent researchers is: Who was involved in this
conspiracy?"
"The Meigs' editorial concludes, "But those who peddle fantasies that
this country encouraged, permitted or actually carried out the attacks
are libeling the truth and disgracing the memories of the thousands
who died on that day."
"Nobody says that the United States of America did anything on 9/11,
Mr. Meigs. "This country," the USA doesn't do anything, Mr. Meigs,
people do. In the case of 9/11 we are dealing with a very small group
of people, perhaps no more than a dozen or so at the highest
"architectural" level, and there is no guarantee that they are from any
one country most likely they are not."
Intranetusa
801 cr points Permalink Reply Quote
Posted Sep 7, 2008
Send Message:
21 / M / United States Ansar, regarding your previous, post.
of...
I've already addressed every single thing you said, ranging from the free-fall
of the WTC Twin Towers to the WTC 7 falling in the same fashion as the
Two Towers (both fell due to damage from fires, duh).
Why don't you answer some of these questions first:
1. Why would the government do this? To go to Iraq to make their own

approval ratings drop?
2. How did the government pull this off, without letting other countries (other
intelligence agencies, etc)
know? Instead, the only people talking about conspiracy are internet
bloggers.
The government can't even build power stations in Iraq, and can't even
deliver food on time to Katrina survivors...how did they pull off the most
complex attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor?
3. No matter how corrupt politicians may be, there would be thousands of
whistle blowers in the top levels of government...where are they? You forget
that our government is still elected by the people...even Soviet Russia under
Khrushchev couldn't have done something like this.
4. If thermite was used, how did they sneak the tons and tons of thermite
bombs into the buildings, past security and office workers?
Report to Mod

leviathan343 wrote:
Ansar wrote:
drizza
3903 cr points
more credible than Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and
Send Message:
technology since 1902?
M / Yo Mommas House
I find this discussion about the Popular Mechanics article very interesting. I also find
the labeling such as "a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their
computers" very extremist and judgmental. Contrast that with "Popular Mechanics, a
magazine dedicated to science and technology since 1902". Well without saying so
we are being told who the bad guy and the good guy is. Nice ploy used in the
wording to influence the mind but does it represent reality?
Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for Popular
Mechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our Homeland
Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future reference. His mother
was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli
citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies caught around the time of 9/11 and
the Israeli Mossad agents who were caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks,
celebrating, hi-fying and dancing with glee -- while the WTC towers were burning
and thousands of Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and
deported to Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an
agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11
attack.
Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics
seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of
9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin
ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. )
Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics, Benjamin
Chertoff could be charged with collusion. What is also most interesting is how he
reacted when an investigative journalist confronted him about this.
be put to the publicist â€“ the one who never answers the phone.
Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop making personal
attacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwilling to address the issue is because
people are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions like the one you are making
right now. I've noticed that you claimed the article is seriously flawed, but yet you
haven't posted a single example why.
LOL! Terrible failure while you call him a troll you don’t make any attempts
at refuting him. You just pass judgment. The only dumb assumption I see is
your trying to undermine his intelligence because he thinks differently from
Popular Mechanics. Personal attacks??? What personal attacks? He just
gave you some specific details about the credibility of Popular Mechanics.
He is dead on topic with this thread and hasn’t threatened anyone. He isn’t
even spamming like a forum troll would do and that was his very first post
on this topic which was in great detail. Now he is presenting you with
evidence and questions you can’t even answer. You lose and you failed at
making him look dumb. You actually only make yourself look dumb.
Report to Mod
Imma' get you Sucka!

Posted Sep 8, 2008
Can't this thread get locked? Only the sight of it makes me want to puke,
and when I see what people write in here, then it's...lol pretty much like a
shock wave going through my body. Too stupid.
Oh America, America, why is it that there are so many wannabe Sherlock

Holmes idiots?
Floetry~
Report to Mod
Sade Adu - By your side

Do not lock this thread!!! This is an eye opener and allows one to see the
other side of the story about this issue. There is nothing offensive, just
debates on this important issue that influenced the decisions our
government makes. There is no racism, sexism, or topics on peoples
religions, only politics. What is offensive about politics? Perfect topic for
drizza extended discussion because you see people going back and forth bringing
3903 cr points evidence etc to the table. If this thread does get locked that would be very
odd. Because someone has a different view of an event he cannot even
Send Message: bring it up for a debate? Even though he has researched it and provided
M / Yo Mommas House
evidence, it must stay silent because we have to accept the mainstream
view? There are far worse topics on this website and this is extremely minor
compared to the religious threads, sexists threads, racism threads, and
homosexual threads. If this thread is offensive to you (I don’t see how and it
follows every guideline to warrant it to be an extended discussion) best bet
is just not to read it anymore. For those who are curious and always
wondered why people believe this view on 9-11 being an inside job keep on
reading.
I don’t think educational threads like this should be locked. It shows the
power of the internet -- allowing the freedom of debates that can never take
place in the real world. LOL! Protect the first amendment right to free
speech. It was put forth not in order to protect popular speech but to protect
unpopular speech as well.
Posted Sep 8, 2008
Intranetusa wrote:
Ansar
43 cr points Ansar, regarding your previous, post.
Send Message: I've already addressed every single thing you said, ranging from the free-fall of the
34 WTC Twin Towers to the WTC 7 falling in the same fashion as the Two Towers
(both fell due to damage from fires, duh).
REALLY??? I would LOVE to see that. I have only seen where you offered
some weak opinions but no factual refutation. Even your statement about
the damage from fires is nonsense. Never before -- or even after 9/11 -- has
a steel structured building been brought down by fire. Steel melts at about
2800 degrees Fahrenheit. The highest possible temperature reached by jet
fuel (kerosene) fires is 1000 degrees less. Furthermore, Underwriters
Laboratories have certified the steel up to 2000 degrees for up to 3 to 4
hours. The billowing black clouds seen in the WTC fires indicate that they
were oxygen starved fires and could not reach more than 500 degrees. The
WTC buildings burned for 1 to 1 ½ hours. The temperature of the fires
was too low and the length of time burned was too short to even melt
the steel structures at the WTC buildings. The Underwriters specs list
2000 degrees and 3 to 4 hours to even begin affecting the steel and ALL
other situations before and even after 9/11 showed that steel structured
buildings never collapse as a result of fire!!! Why the exception for the WTC
buildings on 9/11 and how come all evidence points to bombs going off as
has been cited by numerous eyewitnesses, journalists, firemen, etc???
Truth seekers and others interested can go to the following link for more
about this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6847507648836588010
I will answer each of your questions in the following posts.

Intranetusa wrote:
Ansar
43 cr points 1. Why would the government do this? To go to Iraq to make their own approval
ratings drop?
Send Message:
34
Your questions are based on what YOU think are important and the limited
views you have on things. They are not absolute criteria for anything. I just
want that to be very clear to you and others reading this.
The assumption that approval ratings should be enough of deterrence for

going to war with Iraq is asinine. With the American public overwhelmingly
wanting the troops to come home and the Iraq war to end, the following was
done by government showing how much they cared for public approval:
After winning 2 terms and having full bipartisan support for all of their
actions to fully accomplish their goals, approval ratings are of no concern to
Bush and the Neocons. When Bush asked for a $107 billion budget for the
Iraq war the Democrats actually approved a $162 billion budget for him.
Obama publicly praised the passing of the new FISA bill giving immunity to
telecommunications firms that participated in Bush’s illegal wiretapping after
9/11. Biden takes pride and even claims credit for the Patriot Act. So the top
democrats are all in line with Bush.
"Since Pelosi and Reid took over Congress, the Congress has funded the
Iraq war without even a symbolic condition. It has rejected every proposal to
limit war spending. It has enacted one right-wing proposal after the next,
from warrantless surveillance and telecom immunity to declaring parts of the
Iranian Government a "terrorist organization." It passed a housing bill and
"stimulus" package approved by the administration. It has done nothing to
reverse the radical executive power theories and has done much to
institutionalize them. If there is one predominant trait of the Congress over
the past several years, it has been a willingness to grant every item on the
President's wish list regardless of whether Democrats or Republicans are in
control."
This idea of approval ratings being a deterrent to going to war in Iraq is a

straw man having no basis in reality! But at the same time I am not saying
that the Republicans or Democrats pulled off 9/11. I am saying that the
Israelis along with corrupt elements in our government masterminded and
pulled off 9/11. This cabal – who gained huge benefits from 9/11 – is
bipartisan mainly consisting of a smaller number of Israeli firster Neocons
and other members in government.
Report to Mod
[add a status message]
Intranetusa wrote:
Ansar
43 cr points
2. How did the government pull this off, without letting other countries (other
Send Message: intelligence agencies, etc)
34 know? Instead, the only people talking about conspiracy are internet bloggers.
This is a false assumption. In fact there have been a great deal of concern
about 9/11 being a false flag operation and inside job from foreigners. Let
me list a few examples:
1. General Gul Hamid, who was the director General of the Pakistani
Intelligence Services and a close ally of America said the following:
"Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits. Who benefits
from the crime? The attacks against the twin towers started at 8:45 a.m. and
four flights are diverted from their assigned air space and no air traffic
controller sounds the alarm. And no Air Force jets scramble until 10 a.m.
That also smacks of a small scale Air Force rebellion, a coup against the
Pentagon perhaps? Radars are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend
or foe identification -- challenge. In Pakistan, if there is no response to IFF,
jets are instantly scrambled and the aircraft is shot down with no further
questions asked. This was clearly an inside job. Bush was afraid and rushed
to the shelter of a nuclear bunker. He clearly feared a nuclear situation.
Who could that have been? Will that also be hushed up in the investigation,
like the Warren report after the Kennedy assassination?”
2. Andreas von Buelow, PhD – Former State Secretary of the Federal

Ministry of Defense of West Germany. Former Minister of Research
and Technology. Member of Bundestag (Parliament) 1969-
1994...rejects the official 911 story as in this interview here:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/VonBuelow.html
” --like assailants who, in their preparations, leave tracks

behind them like a herd of stampeding elephants? They
made payments with credit cards with their own names;
they reported to their flight instructors with their own
names. They left behind rented cars with flight manuals in
Arabic for jumbo jets. They took with them, on their suicide
trip, wills and farewell letters, which fall into the hands of
the FBI, because they were stored in the wrong place and
wrongly addressed. Clues were left like behind like in a
child's game of hide-and-seek, which were to be followed!”
3. Michael Shore in Israel states:
“It was reported that none of the names of the so-called Arab terrorists were
on any of the passenger lists of any of the four planes involved in 911. Plus,
the FBI and CIA with all their multi-billion dollar budgets claimed that they
had no prior information that a "terrorist" act of this magnitude was about to
happen. Yet within 48 hours, the FBI and CIA somehow managed to
produce the pictures and names of 19 Arabs who were supposedly the
"terrorists" on the planes, even though none of their names were on ANY of
the passenger lists. How did they know? Just because you had an Arab
name, they were able to determine that you were a "terrorist" on the planes?
Plus, you may recall, when the names of the "terrorists" were first released
to the press, there were reports in the media that some of the passports
which the "terrorists" were using may have been stolen and the real names
of the "terrorists" may have been different than the names released to the
media.”
http://www.rense.com/general18/myss.htm
4. Japanese Legislator Demands Bush Tell Truth About Sept.11:
“Outspoken Japanese politician Yukihisa Fujita does not buy the U.S.
federal explanation of 9-11. Fujita
chastised his fellow Japanese parliamentarians for accepting the Bush
administration September. 11 tale without any investigation.
“In his opening remarks, Fujita described 9-11 as the origin of the war on
terrorism. He then told Prime MinisterYasuo Fukuda, “We only think it was
caused by al Qaeda because President Bush told us so.” He pressed the
prime minister to explain why the Japanese government thinks al Qaeda
was responsible for the events of 9-11. It turns out that Japanese officials
merely went along with what they were told by the Bush administration
without question in the days following 9-11.
“Fujita demanded to know if his government had conducted any 9-11

investigations of its own, stating emphatically that 9-11 was a crime against
Japanese citizens as well and thus requires a direct investigation.”
http://www.americanfreepress.net/Supplements/Issue_35_911_Report.pdf
5. Francesco Cossiga – President of Italy, 1985-1992. Also served as

Former Prime Minister, Undersecretary for Defense, and President of
the Italian Senate.
Article Corriere della Sera, 11/30/07: Mr. Cossiga commenting on a

purported new video from Osama bin Laden: "The non-authenticity of the
video is supported by the fact that Osama bin Laden in it 'confessed' that Al
Qaeda was responsible for the 9/11 attack on the Twin Towers in New York.
However, all of the democratic areas of America and of Europe, with the
Italian center-left in the forefront, now know full well that the disastrous
attack was planned and executed by the American CIA and Mossad ... to
falsely incriminate Arabic countries and to persuade the Western Powers to
intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan." Original article in Italian.
…and many, many more that I will gladly share with you if needed!!!
Report to Mod

Posted Sep 8, 2008
I-Killerbee-I wrote:
Ansar
43 cr points Can't this thread get locked? Only the sight of it makes me want to puke, and when I
see what people write in here, then it's...lol pretty much like a shock wave going
Send Message: through my body. Too stupid.
34
Oh America, America, why is it that there are so many wannabe Sherlock Holmes
idiots?
Floetry~
Yes, rather than not read the thread, our so concerned humanitarian wants
to make sure no one else reads it. How caring!!! I wonder why??? If I am a
Sherlock Holmes idiot then it would be easy for someone like you to refute
not all but just one of my posts. Oh, I guess it is too boring for you to even
consider (a likely excuse ). But drizza said it all. Let free speech and choice
reign! If you don't like what is being said, then YOU don't have to listen. But
if you want to censor information because it is too revealing, then demand
that the thread be locked. How obvious...
Report to Mod
Posted Sep 8, 2008
Intranetusa wrote:
Ansar
43 cr points
3. No matter how corrupt politicians may be, there would be thousands of whistle
Send Message: blowers in the top levels of government...where are they? You forget that our
34 government is still elected by the people...even Soviet Russia under Khrushchev
couldn't have done something like this.
Oh, but there are hundreds even thousands of them. From government
officials to FBI agents, scientists, military officers, journalists, firemen and
others. Here is a link to a few along with their public statements. They
express their disbelief in the official story and place the blame on the
government while commenting about the seriously flawed 9/11 Commission
report:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport
“Many respected senior members of the military, intelligence services, and

government have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission
Report. Some even allege government complicity in the terrible acts of 9/11.
Below are the highly revealing public statements on this vital topic of over
50 prominent public servants with links for verification and further
investigation.
“The collective voices of these respected senior officials along with over 100
esteemed professors, over 100 pilots and aviation professionals, and
hundreds of architects and engineers give credibility to the claim that the
9/11 Commission Report is tragically flawed. These dedicated individuals
from across the political spectrum are not irresponsible believers in some
9/11 conspiracy theory. Their sincere concern, backed by decades of
service to their country, demonstrates that criticism of the 9/11 Commission
Report is not only reasonable and responsible, it is in fact a patriotic duty.”
Report to Mod
Intranetusa wrote:
Ansar
43 cr points 4. If thermite was used, how did they sneak the tons and tons of thermite bombs into
the buildings, past security and office workers?
Send Message:
34
Beats the hell out of me buddy! If I knew exactly, then I would have been
part of the plot!
But others have indicated that ZIM American Israeli shipping company
moved out 1 week before 9/11 from the 17th floor offices of the WTC and
lost $50,000 in broken lease fees. FBI agent Mike Dick claimed that Israelis
moved bombs into the vacant offices. According to a non official cover
(NOC) CIA source who worked with Dick, Israeli movers moved explosives
into the 17th Floor office space after Zim moved out.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3655
Also Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was an owner of the
company, Securacom, that provided security for the World Trade Center.
Collusion? Collusion? Collusion?

drizza wrote:
Ansar Nice little sly remark "good luck findind the real culprit" had you been reading
43 cr points anything on this whole thread we already know who was behind 9-11 we are just
answering questions on this debate. Nice try though you still making yourself look
Send Message: ignorant. I wont respond either because idiots like you are the ones who destroys
34 these threads just flaming rather then actually addressing the topic.
Bingo Drizza! You hit the nail right on the head. That is their whole purpose
to attempt to destroy the thread. You should ignore them and keep on
presenting 911 truths.
You need to familiarize yourself with the "Rules of Disinformation". Many

of them have been used in this thread. Here is a link to a description of
these rules:
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050116064744556
The article deals with the rules as it relates to 9/11 info but these rules have
been around for a long time. I am still waiting for Intranetusa and
Leviathan343 to respond. Both are heavy disinfo posters. It seems in their
lack of response to my answers they are using rule #25 which is to VANISH!
They know further discussion would only lead to more truth being exposed
and their positions severely diminished.
There are many disinfo rules that posters are using here. Two that I have
seen used the most are the following:
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also

known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other
methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents
with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-
wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists",
"religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes
others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and
you avoid dealing with issues.
9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered,

avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make
any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or
support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
Killerbee uses rule #9 in all her posts. Become more familiar with these
rules drizza so that you would know exactly where some posters are coming
from.

Posted Jul 21, 2009, edited Jul 22, 2009
Drizza, I went through and I read a couple of your friend’s posts. I would like to start
out by saying that I think you’ve been lied to. I do not buy for even one minute that
this guy is a physics professor. Alas, that simply amounts to an ad hominem
argument and I’d rather avoid that. So, let’s begin by addressing some of his posts
Seraph and sources.
Alford
10448 cr First off, he claims that Michael Chertoff’s mother was the first Mossad agent.
points
Send
Ansar Michael Chertoff is our Homeland Security chief. His mother was the first Israeli
Message:
Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen.
20 / M
Mossad was founded in 1949 and Israel didn’t being conscripting women until the
1960s. Livia Chertoff was the leader of the Congregation B’nai Israel and a flight
attendant, not a Mossad agent. His father was a rabbi and does have a dual
citizenship, but how is this relevant to the topic at hand?
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050718/18chertoff_2.htm
After attacking Chertoff he claims that the chief of Homeland security has
connections with Popular Mechanics. He directly cites his source.
Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed
and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none other than
Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin.
Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics, Benjamin Chertoff could
be charged with collusion. What is also most interesting is how he reacted when an
investigative journalist confronted him about this.
Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to repeated
calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's "senior
researcher," directly.
Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to
Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter
further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist â€“ the one
who never answers the phone.
Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin
was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a
cousin."
What you’ll notice about this, however, is that his source of information is the
American Free Press. As I pointed out earlier, this is a neo-Nazi online news letter
that denies the holocaust and continuously blabbers about the Jewish conspiracy to
conquer the world. Still, this is what we call a generic fallacy. I cannot say that the
information is wrong simply because the source is unreliable. In this case, however,
I’ve already pointed out that the accusations made within the neo-Nazi newsletter he
is citing have been proven false.
Don't you remember the link I put up in the 9/11 thread?
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy.htm
Ansar
There are numerous flaws in the Popular Mechanics article and a few that I will quickly mention
are below. I will also point you to two articles for more info:
1. The buildings fell at near free fall speed as if they were falling at the speed of gravity. Even
with Popular Mechanics false claim about melted steel and pancaking effect that is impossible.
There would be significant friction from the opposing structure of the building to slow down the
demolition like fall of the building to be nowhere near free fall or it won't fall that way at all.
2. Only way for the building to fall like that was for it to be pre-wired for demolition and a
substance like thermate used to cut the steel columns to allow the near free fall speed of the
collapse of the building. My fellow physicist, Dr. Steven Jones proved from the existence of
molten steel that the same byproducts of a thermate reaction was found.
Nobody actually knows how fast the building fell, but the professional estimates say
that it took fifteen seconds. That means it was actually much slower than free fall
speed and therefore components one and two of the ‘physics professor,’ are
debunked.
http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html
Some more information on his free fall fallacy based argument can be found at the
other websites I’ve linked. This, again, is why I’m encouraging you to read the links.
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
%2Edebunking911%2Ecom%2Ffreefall%2Ehtm&feature=player_embedded
Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers, media, etc. were made
regarding bombs going off in the building. Exactly the MO that will explain what would cause
the buildings to collapse the way they did.
Once again it’s a borrowed accusation, not at all his material. The report from which
he borrowed his material claims that numerous firefighters and other witnesses
reported –hearing- explosions inside of the world trade center indicating the use of
demolitions. However, these explosions do NOT necessarily indicate the use of
demolitions. Even if it was a plane loaded with 10,000 gallons of fuel and not
demolitions they would’ve heard the same explosions.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-in-loose.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html
4. What caused WTC 7 to fall EXACTLY the same way as the other two towers that were hit by
planes? After all WTC 7 was not hit by a plane
That is true but it’s also misleading. WTC was not hit by a plane but one of the other
towers did fall on top of it causing an equally powerful impact.
5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly were pancake demolished
as a result of fire. There are numerous reports about other high rise buildings that burned for
several hours much longer than the WTC towers did but they never collapsed as they did.
Why?
6. The Pentagon was supposedly hit by a plane. Nowhere near was the damage observed
by planes hitting the WTC in NY nor was there any evidence that a plane the size of
a 767 actually hit the Pentagon.
That’s just not true….I mean, there’s not much to argue about. There either was
debris and wreckage or there wasn’t. But of course there was.
http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html
5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly were pancaked demolished
Why?
Those buildings weren’t hit by planes and didn’t have another building falling on top
of them. This is the first time in history anything like this has happened.
Also, an argument you brought out a while back was that the owner of the WTC
pulled out a huge insurance policy and profited from the explosion as a result.
However, Larry Silverstein had already had an insurance policy. He was simply –
required- to increase the policy because he’d begun leasing the building out just a
couple months before 9/11 and that was part of the deal.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-
landlord.html
So, you see he didn’t debunk anything except his silly claim that he’s got a degree in
physics from MIT.
Report to Mod
“Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could...

Posted Jul 21, 2009
I have trouble shaking off the idea that 9/11 was not an inside job, like some have
said there were just way too many failures in the system on that day to make it seem
like coincidence. I also would not put it past the Bush family to stir up some false flag
attacks and open up a great propaganda machine to get the nation to agree to war,
perhaps the C.I.A. is playing shadow government again like they did after WW II. As
for the segments on religion I do think these figures in the bible actually could have
existed but I doubt they had supernatural powers and that God actually exists.
Report to Mod

Posted Jul 21, 2009
Well I have to bring him on. I will try hard to get him here because like I said I am still
swaying on his side although your info seems credible as well. I am not an expert on
this 9-11 topic, but from what I am seeing it does seem like the government is using
9-11 to advance its foreign adventures. I will send him this email of your responses.
This is the most effective way and thanks for the responses.
drizza
3903 cr
points
Send
Message:
M / Yo
Mommas
House

Posted Jul 24, 2009
Drizza,
Ansar
43 cr points
Thanks for sending me the email. I will go through the thread and respond
specifically to what was written. So far I have not seen any refutation to
Send Message: anything I posted. Only someone's opinion on things. But I will respond
34 directly shortly.

Posted Jul 24, 2009
SeraphAlford wrote:
"Now, I have to ask you: didn’t you find his posts a little suspicious? I mean,
Ansar what was with spending so much time talking about how Chertoff is Jewish?
43 cr points How does his race relate to the issue? Is he saying that Jews are
suspicious? They’re certainly the corner of many, many conspiracy theories.
Send Message: Especially in the American Free Press he seems to love so much,
34
repeatedly citing it and praising its articles."
I will respond to this quickly. SeraphAlford. Let's consider that with all the
facts surrounding Michael Chertoff, that instead of Jewish he was Iranian.
The double standard in your judgment can be easily seen. On a claim that
19 men of Muslim faith were responsible for 9/11, wars in Muslim countries
were and are being fought under false pretense and more than 3 million
Muslims have been killed since 9/11. When you add the thousands more
who have been persecuted, falsely arrested, in Guantanamo and other
places, charities shutdown and members jailed, tortured, etc, etc and all
because of the association made with them being Muslims.
It amazes me how when it comes to Israel, people have selective blindness.

As with Chertoff the following that I will list below are all TRUE about
Israelis. Instead of Israelis, I will substitute Iranians. I wonder how many
Israeli deniers would be so quick to deny Iranian involvement if the following
statements were true about Iranians? I want to see them read this honestly
and tell me what they really think.
So in regards to 911 we find the Iranians involved with many things. Strange
wouldn’t you say that we don’t find Russians, Chinese, Italians or even
Africans involved with events related to 911 as Iranians. Isn’t it just
coincidental that the people involved just happens to be Iranians. Let's just
look at a few mainstream reports about Iranian involvement with 911:
1. It was Iranians who were caught watching the WTC burn and crumble
and celebrating it with joy. When the Lakers beat Sacramento for the NBA
crown they celebrated. Why? Because their efforts were successful! The
event, which was the championship game, they won. The Iranians,
according to the eye witnesses who saw them on top of the van were
ecstatic. They were joyful and why you ask? Because of America’s misery,
America’s lost and thousands of innocent lives perishing. But to the Iranians
this was success. They were ecstatic with joy because they too won the
championship game!
To show that this joy was not local only to the 5 Iranians, look at what was
said by and about their leaders:
Reactions from the Iranian side to the September attack:
Farooza Pourkey, terrorism expert at Khomeini University in Tehran, said

"From the perspective of Iranians, it is the most important public relations
act ever committed in our favor."
The attack "was good for the Iranians," "It is very good", said Mohammed
Qahtani...before he caught himself and amended his statement.
In an interview with Le Monde, Ali Namazi, former Head of the Iranian Militia
for the Republic of Iran, stated: "Since September 11, our leaders have
been euphoric."
The reason why the Iranians failed lie detector tests is because the truth
that they could not admit was we planned this. We pulled it off. We
successfully created a Pearl Harbor incident to get the stupid goyim fully in
bed with us. And just like we did in the time of Christ we are going to do
today. We will get our media fully in bed with us to blame someone else for
the crime. Yeah we were caught in the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, etc. But
we are ready now. The stakes are too high. “Yippee Aye Yay we are
successful. Come on Ali let’s dance!!!”
2. It was Iranians whose van was stopped and maps and other
paraphernalia were found leading the FBI to believe that they had definite
involvement with 911.
3. It was the Iranian owner of the Moving van company that immediately
shutdown his business, put his house up for sale and fled to Iran when his
employees were caught. Aren’t these drastic actions and shouldn’t we want
to know why the owner behaved that way?
4. It was Iranians who were caught spying on the US and lived in the same
vicinity as the supposed “hijackers”.
5. It was Iranians who were part of a spy ring that Carl Cameron reported
about in Foxx News saying that government officials stated that they had
“tie-ins” to 911. By the way this news was suppressed and the story taken
off the Foxx News website. The people responsible for that were IINSA (the
Iranian Institute for National Security Affairs). IINSA President and CEO
Faruddin Mosadeq is also a director of CAMERA (Committee for Accurate
Middle East Reporting in America), the group that actually staged the e-
mail, fax, letter, and phone call mobilization that squeezed Fox TV, to the
point that they removed the transcripts of the four Carl Cameron segments
from their own web site. I wonder why these American Iranians will be
interested in doing such a thing?
6. It was Iranians who the following was reported about by U.S. government
authorities when the Iranian spies were found: “An Iranian government
spokesman reported a few days ago the news of arresting a number of
Iranians by the US intelligence bodies in Florida. This might seem strange
but what is more significant is the deliberate ignorance by the Iranian
government of the reason for the arrests. The Iranians did not even mention
the reason or the case for which their subjects were detained. The point is
that a big quantity of the Anthrax germ was held with the Iranians when they
were arrested. Moreover, the detainees had 15 charts of the New York
Trade Center and eight charts of the Pentagon building which were attacked
on September 11th. This is in addition to other six charts of the White
House, which was among the would-be targets of the September 11th
attacks. According to discreet US reports, the charts found with the Iranians
had accurately drawn the Pentagon building and the World Trade Center
and defined their geometric projections, as well as, precisely depicted the
many floors. Further, some data included in the charts define the itineraries
of civil passenger planes and their destinations!!!...”
7. It was Iranians who the Tehran Post reported about that 4000 were
missing or expected to be dead as a result of doing business and working at
the WTC on 911.
8. It was the Iranian general counsel Mohammad Nasruddin Mehdi who

reported that out of the 4000 Iranians dead or missing actually only one was
killed, a visitor. The statistics of this happening is IMPOSSIBLE. The only
reason this could happen is if somehow Iranians were warned ahead of time
about the planes crashing into the WTC. The natural question to ask is, are
there any evidence of prior warnings of the impending WTC attacks given to
anyone in the world? If there is let’s narrow the list down to see if any
warnings happen to be given to Iranians. Well it just so happens that there
were prior warnings and the only people in the world to receive them were
Iranians!!!!
9. It was Iranians who received Odigo warnings two hours before the planes
struck the WTC buildings. This was reported both in the Tehran Times and
Washington Post newspapers. This is proof positive that someone who
cares for the lives of Iranians knew that planes were going to be crashed
into the WTC ahead of time and wanted to make sure Iranians were not
killed. I am sure the identity of that person was not Bin laden. This
succinctly explains why only one Iranian got killed on 911 although the
number was expected to be as much as 4000.
10. It was Iranians who were armed with 9mm pistols, nine grenades,
explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets and caught in Mexico in an
attempt to blow the Mexican Congress up on October 10, 2001. The
Iranians were booked for conspiracy to destroy a building by means of an
explosive by the Mexican police. If they were successful in blowing up the
Mexican Congress then like 911 it would have been blamed on Christian
terrorists. They got caught red-handed here and only God knows how many
other incidents that innocent Christians are being blamed for that were
really done by Iranians.
11. General Gul, who at one time was a close ally of the U.S. and a staunch
supporter of western values, who could have blamed 911 on his Russian or
Indian enemies but instead choose to blame 911 on Iranians. This former
director of the Pakistani Intelligence Service said un-categorically about 911
that “The Iranian Savak and its American associates are the obvious
culprits.” Why did he just happen to also blame Iranians. Of course you
would say he was biased, etc. I expect that from you but why didn’t he
blame India or Russia who were far worse enemies to Pakistan than Iran?
This was a man who was close to the American Secret Service leaders and
their ally. How come he seems to know what Vreeland and other CIA
operatives worldwide knew about 911?
12. The news about the impending attacks was known by even low ranking
CIA agents like Delmart Vreeland. To prove it he wrote what was going to
happen in August, 2001 in a sealed envelope while in prison in Canada and
had his guards open the envelope on September 14th. Lo and behold he
accurately predicted the attacks of 911. If he knew about this I am certain
that many others in the CIA especially at higher levels knew about it also.
As such this was a deliberate planned action set up to create a Pearl Harbor
type event to cause the American government to take actions that the
planners of this event wanted. With the complicity of the Iranian controlled
news media the finger was solidly pointed on OBL, Al-Qaeda and the
Taliban. They did not allow any suspicion to be pointed anywhere else. How
convenient!!!
As an example of the many reports throughout the world implicating Iranian

involvement in 911, here is a partial text of one from Canada’s Stern-Intel
on September 17, 2001:
”A US military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligence

memo that points to the Iranian Savak intelligence service having links to
the World Trade Centre and Pentagon attacks.”
13. The U.S. Army School for Advanced Military Studies (SAMS), wrote this
about the Iranian Savak which was reported about on September 10, 2001
one day before 911:
"Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target U.S. forces and
make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act."
BINGO! The very next day an “Arab act” took place against the U.S. and no
suspicion or investigation was done based on this credible report from
SAMS. As I said the finger was so firmly pointed against Bin Laden that
even intelligent people were so suffocated by the Iranian press that no other
questions were entertained.
14. An abnormal amount of put stock options were purchased against

United and American Airlines one day before 911. Gee whiz I wonder why
British Airways, Southwest Airlines, Continental or other Airlines did not
have abnormally large amounts of put stock options purchases also? Why
did it just so happen to be from the two airlines that were involved with the
911 incident? It was reported that many Iranians and even an ex-CIA
director from Deutsche bank made huge profits on the purchase. One
person made as much as $2,500,000.00 on the deal and when last reported
did not come to pick up his money. How did all these people know that
American and United Airlines stocks will drop so dramatically in value the
next day??? I ask the same question as Michael Shore does in the following
paragraph, Why? Also why did this story just drop from the media and no
follow up was done? Another example of the media in cahoots with the
planners of 911 to deflect attention from the obvious and keep the
Americans firmly fixated on OBL as the only possibility for 911.
It would seem easy enough for the FBI and CIA to go to the stockbrokers
where these trades were made and find out who made them. This is
probably the closest link that can be established to someone who was
involved in 911 but neither the FBI nor CIA is, apparently, pursuing this.
Why?
15. When Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah and other Palestinian groups
commits an act of freedom against the brutal Israeli regime, no matter how
small the numbers they kill of the enemy they take responsibility for it. That
has been their pattern for a long time. Now the largest attack killing the most
amount of “the enemy” Americans, instead of OBL boasting about it and
even cheering like the Iranians did at the WTC he says the following: “I have
already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the
United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no
knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women,
children and other humans as an appreciable act…”
This is quite significant because as successful as this act was it would have
been something for OBL to boast about but instead he condemns it and
distances himself from it. Very unlikely behavior for someone guilty and who
would normally gloat at such a major accomplishment. The U.S.
government claimed that it had proof which they never showed any of us.
They claimed that they showed it to the Pakistani President but he also
recently came out with a statement claiming that he believes that there is no
way that OBL could have pulled off 911. What happened to the proof?
With all this evidence of Iranian involvement, corrupt U.S. government

officials involvement and media complicity in covering and even dropping
information that should be pursued and thoroughly investigated I ask the
question why, why in the hell is any of this not being investigated? This is a
mountain of evidence. Other evidence not discussed but also valid is how
an Iranian company abruptly broke it’s lease with the WTC, incurring huge
costs just weeks before 911, the many reports showing evidence that the
WTC was blown up from within explaining how the buildings fell, no video or
stills of any of the hijackers at Logan Airport, how did the U.S. government
identify so quickly the identities of the hijackers and was able to fix the
blame on OBL just a few hours after the event, the fact that 8 of the
hijackers identified are still alive today, the many false reports about
terrorists identities like the one recently of a Pakistani man who never left
Pakistan in his life having his picture publicly broadcasted in the media, and
I could go on and on.
What we have been told officially about 911 has more holes in it than aged
cheese. It just does not add up. Yet serious actions are being taken against
innocent Christians and thousands of lives are being lost and even more are
being harassed and persecuted. Why isn’t our government investigating the
huge pile of evidence pointing to the Iranians and why isn’t relations
between the U.S. and Iran cooled? Why? Why? Why?
Along with this the Iranians have a consistent history of fraudulent actions
costing the lives of millions of human beings.

Ansar wrote:
Drizza,
Thanks for sending me the email. I will go through the thread and respond
drizza specifically to what was written. So far I have not seen any refutation to anything I
3903 cr points posted. Only someone's opinion on things. But I will respond directly shortly.
Send Message:
M / Yo Mommas House
No problem nice to see you back ! I love the way you substituted Israeli for
Iranians and Muslims for Christians since it is a country the US doesn't like
it makes it easier for Americans to understand what you are trying to say.
Report to Mod
Imma' get you Sucka!
Ansar I will respond to this quickly. SeraphAlford. Let's consider that with all the facts
surrounding Michael Chertoff, that instead of Jewish he was Iranian. The double
standard in your judgment can be easily seen. On a claim that 19 men of Muslim
faith were responsible for 9/11, wars in Muslim countries were and are being fought
SeraphAlford under false pretense and more than 3 million Muslims have been killed since 9/11.
10448 cr points When you add the thousands more who have been persecuted, falsely arrested, in
Guantanamo and other places, charities shutdown and members jailed, tortured, etc,
etc and all because of the association made with them being Muslims.
Send Message:
20 / M
It amazes me how when it comes to Israel, people have selective blindness. As with
Chertoff the following that I will list below are all TRUE about Israelis. Instead of
Israelis, I will substitute Iranians. I wonder how many Israeli deniers would be so
quick to deny Iranian involvement if the following statements were true about
Iranians? I want to see them read this honestly and tell me what they really think.
See, now you’re judging me to be racially suspicious of Iranians prior to me

expressing or demonstrating any suspicion of the Iranian people. That’s pre-
judging. That’s prejudice. So, in your first post you demonstrated prejudice
against the Jews by coloring Chertoff as suspicious while using his ethnicity
as your highlighter. Now you’re going one step further and apparently
generalizing and profiling anybody who supports Israel in an unrelated light.
I’m actually a Muslim sympathizer, and honestly I think Iran is more

progressive than people give it credit for. About sixty percent of their
university students, for example, are female. So, I’m going to request that
you refrain from making prejudice assumptions surrounding my character.
You’re right. The discrimination against men because of their Iranian

ethnicity is real and it’s wrong. No, yes. A lot of people are suspicious of
others for being Iranian. That’s racist and unacceptable. But your apparent
racism, or at least racial suspicion, against the Jews is every bit as
abhorrent.
As far as not seeing any refutation, I think you’re dodging. I demonstrated

several of your claims to be false, misleading, or at very least unreliable
(say using a neo-Nazi newsletter as your only cited source) and you don’t
have a way to defend it except to attack me and call me racist.
Posted Jul 25, 2009
drizza wrote:
Ansar wrote:
SeraphAlford
10448 cr points Drizza,
Send Message: Thanks for sending me the email. I will go through the thread and respond
20 / M specifically to what was written. So far I have not seen any refutation to anything I
posted. Only someone's opinion on things. But I will respond directly shortly.
No problem nice to see you back ! I love the way you substituted Israeli for Iranians
and Muslims for Christians since it is a country the US doesn't like it makes it easier
for Americans to understand what you are trying to say.
I understood what that article is trying to say. That being Israeli makes you
suspicious. That’s profiling. Profiling Iranians is wrong, yes, but so is
profiling Jews and Israelis. Don’t you agree on that note? It’s like Obama’s
preacher made that racist speech against whites. Then a black reporter
substituted ‘white’ for black and vice versa. When he read it over he finally
realized why people that that the preacher’s teaching was so scary. But,
shouldn’t it be scary either way? This document was racist rather you put
Israeli, Jew, or Iranian.
Report to Mod
“Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could...

SeraphAlford wrote:
Ansar As far as not seeing any refutation, I think you’re dodging. I demonstrated several of
43 cr points your claims to be false, misleading, or at very least unreliable (say using a neo-Nazi
newsletter as your only cited source) and you don’t have a way to defend it except to
Send Message: attack me and call me racist.
34
You did not demonstrate anything. You just labeled RBN and hoped people
would believe you. I invite everyone to check out RBN for themselves and to
listen to the Mike Piper, Mark Glenn and some of the other shows and come
with their own opinions. The link to the RBN site is:
http://republicbroadcasting.org/
You will find them much less racist and disgustingly bigoted than the 9 or so
European countries that will put people in jail for just questioning the
Holocaust. Chemist Germar Rudolph is in prison right now for several years
for just doing scientific research and proving that Jews were not gassed in
concentration camps. If the Holyhoax was so true then it would be open to
scrutiny. But the schemers know it is a lie and they use it to suck money
from western countries to feed the racist, imperialist and disgusting state
known as Israel.
My friend since you could not rebut the info I wrote about Michael Chertoff,
you attempted to rebut the source with nothing but name calling and your
opinion. Truth belongs to God and even a criminal can tell truth. So that is a
weak method to use to prove that something is wrong. But I won't give up
on you. I will repeat what I wrote about Chertoff below and please prove any
of it wrong. Of course his Rabbi father and Mossad mother is important.
Their interest is in serving Israel. Do you think he would have let go 200+
spies in connection to 9/11 if they were Iranians? Muslims are being held in
Guantanamo and in prisons for much less evidence than what was found
with the Israeli spies. Yes, Zionist Jews has a real interest in 9/11 and
having Muslims blamed. With that one event they got the US to be fully in
bed with them and made Israel's enemies America's enemies. Of course
Chertoff helped that process. Anyway here is what I wrote before. Please
refute any fact that I made if you can:
"Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for
Popular Mechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our
Homeland Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future
reference. His mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a
Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies
caught around the time of 9/11 and the Israeli Mossad agents who were
caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks, celebrating, hi-fying and dancing
with glee -- while the WTC towers were burning and thousands of
Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and deported to
Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an agency
which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11
attack.
"Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular
Mechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the
establishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff,
Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure Mike's job is
very secure. Image )"
Ansar wrote:
You will find them much less racist and disgustingly bigoted than the 9 or so European
countries that will put people in jail for just questioning the Holocaust. Chemist Germar
Rudolph is in prison right now for several years for just doing scientific research and proving
Seraph that Jews were not gassed in concentration camps. If the Holyhoax was so true then it would
be open to scrutiny. But the schemers know it is a lie and they use it to suck money from
Alford western countries to feed the racist, imperialist and disgusting state known as Israel.
10448 cr
points
Send
Now, you see what’s very interesting about this is that I’m German. So I actually
Message: know that Germar Rudolph, a famous holocaust denier back in Germany, was not
arrested for doing scientific research. He was arrested for inciting racism against the
Jews.
20 / M
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2386563,00.html
As far as his supposed proof that Jews were not gassed in concentration camps,
you obviously haven’t even read the 'study.' First, he only researched Auschwitz.
That’s one concentration camp, but of course there were many. Another would be
Dachau. In addition, his ‘research,’ was later debunked by Richard J. Green.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/ and critically analyzed by
Jamie McCarthy.
In Germany people have been arrested for looking up the photographic evidence of
the Nazi atrocities, and German public schools don’t teach about the holocaust.
They actually did a joke about that on Family Guy that made me laugh for months
because it was so very true. Basically, we’re taught that there was a war. We’re told
that we were the aggressors and that we lost. That’s about it, some people don’t
even think Germany was the aggressor. One person we knew actually thought that
Germany won the holocaust. Another was arrested for looking up images of the
Jews at concentration camps on Google. Naturally, this is all first person testimony
so I have no sources. Feel free to disregard this section.
I can confirm that Finkelstein, a famous holocaust minimizer, receives interviews

with top German newspapers and his books are best sellers in Germany.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/nazis-beat-drums-of-war-in-germany/
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/israeli-civil-libertarians-introduction-to-german-
edition-of-beyond-chutzpah/
Ansar wrote: Jews were not gassed in concentration camps. If the Holyhoax was so true
then it would be open to scrutiny.
So far you’ve claimed to be a physics professor. You immediately thereafter cited a
neo-Nazi newsletter as a reliable source, expressing that you agree with its content.
Then you pulled up a generally anti-Semitic article and expressed you undying and
entire solidarity of its content. Now you’ve denied the holocaust, claiming that it’s a
Jewish conspiracy.
My friend since you could not rebut the info I wrote about Michael Chertoff, you attempted to
rebut the source with nothing but name calling and your opinion.
That’s called Generic Fallacy, and you obviously didn’t read my post.
"Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for Popular Mechanics.
But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our Homeland Security chief. A little
background on Mr. Chertoff for future reference. His mother was the first Israeli Mossad
agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli
spies caught around the time of 9/11 and the Israeli Mossad agents who were caught
videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks, celebrating, hi-fying and dancing with glee -- while the
WTC towers were burning and thousands of Americans were suffering and dying -- were all
set free and deported to Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an
agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11 attack.
"Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously
flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none
other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure
Mike's job is very secure. Image )"
Now, from my other post:

** Spoiler Alert!!! click to hide or show**
Mossad was founded in 1949 and Israel didn’t being conscripting women until the 1960s.
Livia Chertoff was the leader of the Congregation B’nai Israel and a flight attendant, not a
Mossad agent. His father was a rabbi and does have a dual citizenship, but how is this
relevant to the topic at hand?
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050718/18chertoff_2.htm
also from my other post:
SeraphAlford wrote:
What you’ll notice about this, however, is that his source of information is the American Free
Press. As I pointed out earlier, this is a neo-Nazi online news letter that denies the holocaust
and continuously blabbers about the Jewish conspiracy to conquer the world. Still, this is what
we call a generic fallacy. I cannot say that the information is wrong simply because the source
is unreliable. In this case, however, I’ve already pointed out that the accusations made within
the neo-Nazi newsletter he is citing have been proven false.
Don't you remember the link I put up in the 9/11 thread?
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy.htm
Benjamin hadn’t even heard of Michael until the incident. They're not related, they
just happen to have the same last name. The rumor of course, was started by your
favorite neo-Nazi newsletter.
http://911debunker.livejournal.com/7249.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/benjamin_chertoff.html
Moreover, let’s take a trip back to –your- accusation:
My friend since you could not rebut the info [... ] you attempted to rebut the source with
nothing but name calling and your opinion.
Now, again:
Generic Fallacy. First, you attack Popular Mechanic’s article via generic fallacy.
Then you accuse me, without even reading my post, of doing this to you. So, here is
what Popular Mechanics wrote. Please refute any fact that I made if you can:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
Don't forget. Your previous attempt to use fraudulent research to debunk it was
already obliterated, even if you chose not to see it and only see someone’s opinion
and name calling.
Ansar wrote
There are numerous flaws in the Popular Mechanics article and a few that I will quickly
mention are below. I will also point you to two articles for more info:
1. The buildings fell at near free fall speed as if they were falling at the speed of gravity. Even
with Popular Mechanics false claim about melted steel and pancaking effect, that is
impossible. There would be significant friction from the opposing structure of the building to
slow down the demolition like fall of the building to not be no where near free fall or it won't fall
that way at all.
2. Only way for the building to fall like that was for it to be pre-wired for demolition and a
substance like thermate used to cut the steel columns to allow the near free fall speed of the
collapse of the building. My degree is in Physics and I am a graduate of MIT. My fellow
physicist, Dr. Steven Jones proved from the existence of molten steel that the same by
products of a thermate reaction was found.
Nobody actually knows how fast the building fell, but the professional estimates say that it
took fifteen seconds. That means it was actually much slower than free fall speed and
therefore components one and two of the ‘physics professor,’ are debunked.
http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html
Some more information on his free fall fallacy based argument can be found at the other
websites I’ve linked. This, again, is why I’m encouraging you to read the links.
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
%2Edebunking911%2Ecom%2Ffreefall%2Ehtm&feature=player_embedded
Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers, media, etc. were made
regarding bombs going off in the building. Exactly the MO that will explain what would cause
the buildings to collapse the way they did.
Once again it’s a borrowed accusation, not at all his material. The report from which he
borrowed his material claims that numerous firefighters and other witnesses reported –
hearing- explosions inside of the world trade center indicating the use of demolitions.
However, these explosions do NOT necessarily indicate the use of demolitions. Even if it was
a plane loaded with 10,000 gallons of fuel and not demolitions they would’ve heard the same
explosions.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-in-loose.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html
4. What caused WTC 7 to fall EXACTLY the same way as the other two towers that were hit
by planes? After all WTC 7 was not hit by a plane
That is true but it’s also misleading. WTC was not hit by a plane but one of the other towers
did fall on top of it causing an equally powerful impact.
Why?
6. The Pentagon was supposedly hit by a plane and no where near the damage was
supposedly caused by planes hitting the WTC nor was there any evidence that a plane the
size of a 767 actually hit the Pentagon.
That’s just not true….I mean, there’s not much to argue about. There either was debris and
wreckage or there wasn’t. But of course there was.
http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html
Why?
Those buildings weren’t hit by planes and didn’t have another building falling on top of them.
This is the first time in history anything like this has happened.
Also, an argument you brought out a while back was that the owner of the WTC pulled out a
huge insurance policy and profited from the explosion as a result. However, Larry Silverstein
had already had an insurance policy. He was simply –required- to increase the policy
because he’d begun leasing the building out just a couple months before 9/11 and that was
part of the deal.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-landlord.html
You also dodged my post attacking the content of your other article, the one you're
riding on to compensate for a lack of debate skills:

SeraphAlford ...I will reply quickly because I need to get some sleep. I will
reply more fully when I get more time.
Ansar
43 cr points 1. Germar Rudolph was imprisoned for his thoughts and scientific research
that did not confirm the lies about the Holyhoax. The repression that
Send Message: Germany and other European countries have instituted to anyone who
34
questions the Holyhoax is reminiscent of the Inquisition. People are being
punished for their thoughts and scientific research. If this method of thinking
persisted in Europe w/o a Renaissance we will all still be believing the world
was flat and more and more scientists would be imprisoned as Germar
Rudolph was. To those who want to find out factual information about the
persecution that Germar Rudolp faced for his scientific findings please go to
these links:
http://www.germarrudolf.com/
Imagine an expert in DNA analyses. He is asked to verify if a defendant is
the father of a child. He complies and confirms the fatherhood of the
defendant. With his testimony, however, the expert contradicts the
statements of many witnesses who claim the opposite. Imagine the judge
ruling not to admit the expert testimony because it makes spectators
assume that the witnesses lied out of sinister motives. The judge even puts
the expert witness on trial for inciting hatred against the witnesses and
sentences him to 14 months in jail. You think it can’t happen? It does
happen in Germany...
http://www.germarrudolf.com/persecute/
2. Where did I ever say I was a physics professor? I see it is a pattern for
you to confuse facts and you are even doing it wth your wrong assessments
of me.
3. Regarding Michael Chertoff's Mossad agent mother. Livia Eisen was the
first hostess for El Al, Israel's state-owned airlines, founded in 1948. But that
was a cover for her Mossad activities. As an example of her Mossad ties is
her involvement with Operation Magic Carpet. This was a Mossad
Operation which airlifted Yemini Jews to Israel. To show proof of her
Mossad involvement this fact was listed in her orbituary. Here is pat of how
that orbituary reads:
Star-Ledger, The (Newark, NJ) - December 21, 1998

Deceased Name: Livia Chertoff, 73, El Al flight attendant
OBITUARY
Services for Mrs. Livia Chertoff, 73, of Delray Beach, Fla., mother of former U.S.
Attorney for the District of New Jersey, Michael Chertoff, will be held at 1 p.m. today
in the Kreitzman's Memorial Home, 1500 Morris Ave., Union.
Mrs. Chertoff died Saturday in the Ashbrook Nursing Home, Scotch Plains.
She was the first airline hostess for El Al Airlines and participated in Operation
Magic Carpet, the famous airlift of Yemenite Jews to Israel.

I already demonstrated that Germar was arrested for inciting hatred with both
a source and an argument. Tell me, if Germar was being censored for his
scientific opinion alone then why is Norman Finkelstein not subject to this
same discrimination? He’s actually cited Germar in one of his books, yet he’s
a bestselling author in Germany. Well, because Norman isn’t inciting hatred of
SeraphAlfor the Jews. Germar was. Once again, Germar’s study was already debunked
d by other chemists as demonstrated here:
10448 cr points
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/
Send Message:
20 / M Once again he was actually jailed for intentionally stirring up anti-Semitism.
He fled to America so we would shelter him (the remaining relatives of Hitler
are also hiding in America,) but we sent him back to Germany. He also
worked in coordination with his long time friend and neo-Nazi Zundel who
published several books praising the Nazi treatment of the Jews.
You make this claim that the only reason Rudolph was arrested was because
of his opinion about the Holocaust. He was actually charged with inciting hate,
investigated, and found guilty. Now, this may seem strange to Americans but
that’s how it is around most of the world. In Canada a Christian preacher was
arrested for saying gays will burn in hell. A young man was arrested for
saying scientology was a cult, even though by definition it is in fact a client
cult. Yet, where is your outcry for these people? Here you are getting so
adamant about holocaust deniers being arrested for inciting hatred. Here you
are attacking 9 European countries for this, but you don’t mind that a
commonwealth country is doing the same thing to people for talking about
scientology and homosexuals instead of Jews?
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/notice/index.html?redirect=%2Fen
%2FShowFullDoc%2Fcs%2FH-6%2F%2F%2Fen
It's going on in France too:
http://www.taylorwessing.com/topical-issues/details/defamation-and-privacy-
law-and-procedure-in-england-germany-and-france.html
It's going on pretty much all over the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#Canada
Where did I ever say I was a physics professor? I see it is a pattern for you to confuse
facts and you are even doing it wth your wrong assessments of me.
Drizza’s the one who told me you made that claim, so take it up with him. I’ll
give you the professor part but right here:
Ansar My fellow physicist, Dr. Steven Jones
You do claim to be a physicist. As for my assessment being wrong, I think it’s

pretty spot on and everyone can tell that. You deny the holocaust and
frequent neo-Nazi newsletters. You argue that Chertoff is tied to 9/11 simply
because he’s Jewish. The information is all up and posted for everybody to
see.
Regarding Michael Chertoff's Mossad agent mother. Livia Eisen was the first hostess
for El Al, Israel's state-owned airlines, founded in 1948. But that was a cover for her
Mossad activities. As an example of her Mossad ties is her involvement with Operation
Magic Carpet. This was a Mossad Operation which airlifted Yemini Jews to Israel. To
show proof of her Mossad involvement this fact was listed in her orbituary. Here is pat
of how that orbituary reads:
I like how you changed things up there. It was a subtle deceit, but a deceit
none the less. First you wrote:
Michael Chertoff is our Homeland Security chief. His mother was the first Israeli
Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen.
Then:
Livia Eisen was the first hostess for El Al, Israel's state-owned airlines
Well, I already pointed out why your information can’t be true. I posted an
argument which you failed to counter. I posted a source which you failed to
debunk. Now, let’s take a look at your source for this information. You cited:
So, I went to the Rumor Mill website,

http://www.rumormillnews.com/
and you know what the very first headline I saw was?
“The Latest Crop Circle

CrystalRiver -- Saturday, 25-Jul-2009 17:57:29”
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=151802
This was followed by:

“Various quotes from our infamous leaders--be prepared!
Followed by:
BS !!! The crybaby zionists jews and the moslems are the real reason !
Striderus -- Thursday, 30-Apr-2009 21:36:46
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/read/146033
Followed by y favorite:
McCAIN IS A NATURAL AMERICAN CITIZEN......OBAMA IS NOT

Seawitch -- Sat, 2:17 p.m. EDT
So, really you’re citing a website about crop circles to argue that Chertoff’s
mother was a super secret undercover agent. You watch too many James
Bond Movies…I don’t see how you make time for it, between your KKK
meetings and your neo-Nazi outings, not to mention your plagiarism and
slander campaign

Posted Oct 16, 2009
I have to apologize for being away so long. I had much personal business to
attend to. I thank Drizza for getting in touch with me and reminding me of
Ansar this thread. After reading SeraphAlford’s comments, I am compelled to reply
43 cr points and continue this discussion because the misinformation and outright lies
posted by him are so outrageous.
Send Message:
34
I will start by responding to his last post:
“I already demonstrated that Germar was arrested for inciting hatred with both a
source and an argument. Tell me, if Germar was being censored for his scientific
opinion alone then why is Norman Finkelstein not subject to this same
discrimination? He’s actually cited Germar in one of his books, yet he’s a bestselling
author in Germany. Well, because Norman isn’t inciting hatred of the Jews. Germar
was. Once again, Germar’s study was already debunked by other chemists as
demonstrated here:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/”
Well if the ruling against Germar was so just, can you please cite what it
was he wrote, said, did, etc that was incitement to hatred? Let all of us see
the evidence for ourselves. Rather than try to make a case showing the
unjust practices of other nations regarding free speech, please be specific
and show us exactly what Germar did that was “inciting hatred or
intentionally stirring up anti-semitism”? The truth is Germar provided
scientific evidence that was confirmed by other scientists and never refuted
(despite your empty bogus links that is devoid of substance) that
demolished the established lies about gassing at Auschwitz. Rather than
use reason and facts to counter Germar’s findings the German court put
him in jail. Germar was denied free and factual speech to satisfy appeasing
Holocaust lies.
Norman Finkelstein is Jewish whose parents experienced the Holocaust.

Norman Finkelstein is American not German as such he is not subject to
Germany’s unjust laws about denying the Holocaust. He too is being
accused of being a “self hating Jew and inciting hatred” because of what he
writes. To try to make a comparison between him and Germar is
disingenuous and warped. Surely if he was German he would have
suffered the same fate as Germar, David Irving, Zundel and others who are
falsely charged as Holocaust deniers. Being Jewish whose parents survived
the Holocaust makes it difficult to pin the lie of Holocaust denial on him. But
all the same Norman went through his own set of suffering for daring to be a
Jew and write about the Holocaust as a fraud. He was denied tenure and
fired from his position as a professor at DePaul University. On his last visit
to Israel, the Israelis stopped him at the airport and immediately deported
him. All this because he exercised his right to think freely, do research and
express honestly his findings about the Holocaust and the Palestinian/Israeli
conflict. Today he is labeled a self-hating Jew by those Jews who hate the
fact that he exposes truths about the evils of some of his people. Norman is
just one of many decent Jews who tell the truth about the Holocaust and
have paid a severe price from other Jews as a result of it.
My degree is in Physics and nowhere have I claimed to be a Physics

professor. That is another invention of yours.
“Ansar is linking Chertoff’s Jewish heredity, not a religion but an ethnicity, to

terrorism in much the same way people do to Islam. He does not demonstrate any
evidence whatsoever that Chertoff was working with Mossad to bomb the towers. He
simply points out that Chertoff is a Jew. Why is that relevant?”
The fact that he is Jewish in and of itself proves nothing. There are many
good Jews like Norman Finkelstein who expose the fraud about the
Holocaust and defend the Palestinians against the brutality of the Israelis.
There are other Jews like Israel Shamir who help to expose how 9/11 was a
false flag operation done by the Israelis and crooked elements in our
government. The factors that makes Michael Chertoff important are the
following:
1. Michael Chertoff is an Israeli national through his mother. It is absolutely

outrageous that a foreign national should be in charge of U.S. "Homeland
Security." Imagine if he were an Iranian dual citizen.
2. Michael Chertoff was responsible for overriding the FBI and freeing
hundreds of Israeli spies in 2001 who were arrested for connections with
9/11. Most if not all of these spies failed lie detector tests. Imagine if that
were a group of Arabs.
3. Michael Chertoff, as Asst. Attorney General of the United States in
charge of the Criminal Division of the Dept. of Justice, PERSONALLY
supervised and controlled the entire FBI non-investigation of 9-11 and is the
person who has obstructed justice and blocked access to the evidence
since September 11, 2001.
4. Chertoff was central in creating the 9-11 myth by providing the list of the
19 Arab suspects and SUPERVISING the FBI's confiscation of evidence
Being a dual Israeli citizen he demonstrated that his loyalties were with
Israel and not with the US. Above is just a few of his actions which showed
his Israeli leanings. There is a lot more that I can post if you like.
“So, I went to the Rumor Mill website, http://www.rumormillnews.com/ and you know
what the very first headline I saw was?...So, really you’re citing a website about crop
circles to argue that Chertoff’s mother was a super secret undercover agent. You
watch too many James Bond Movies…I don’t see how you make time for it, between
your KKK meetings and your neo-Nazi outings, not to mention your plagiarism and
slander campaign.”
“Sticks and stones may break my bones but YOUR words will never hurt
me.” Haha…If you do a Google search on the title of the article and the
author Christopher Bollyn you will get 959,000 hits. You will find thousands
of websites, blogs, forums, etc along with rumormills.com carrying the
article. Are you going to give us a report on each one of them to discredit
the article? If so have at it. Knock yourself out. But pssst you will be missing
the point. It is not websites I am pushing but the article. Since you can’t
disqualify the article you spend time trying to disqualify one website carrying
the article. I will repeat the link to the article again. This time try to deal with
the substance of the article if you can:
Ridicule as you like and make false claims. But everyone who has eyes will
plainly see what is really important and that is…You never prove any of the
information presented to be wrong. As the American Jew, Jack Bernstein,
wrote who was criticized by his Zionists for telling the truth:
I am well aware of the tactics of you, my Zionist brethren, use to quiet anyone who
attempts to expose any of your subversive acts.
If the person is a Gentile, you cry, "You're anti-Semitic" which is nothing more than a
smokescreen to hide your actions.
But, if a Jew is the person doing the exposing, you resort to other tactics.
• First, you ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread
distribution.
• If the information starts reaching too many people, you ridicule the information and
the persons giving the information.
• If that doesn't work, your next step is character assassination. If the author or
speaker hasn't been involved in sufficient scandal you are adept at fabricating
scandal against the person or persons.
• If none of these are effective, you are known to resort to physical attacks.
But, NEVER do you try to prove the information wrong.
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/american_jew_in_racist_marxist
_israel.htm

Posted Oct 16, 2009
You’re completely right. I’m a Zionist lying jackass silencing brilliant

holocaust denying minds like you simply because I do not want to accept
the truth.
SeraphAlford
10448 cr points
Send Message:
20 / M
Posted Oct 16, 2009, edited Oct 16, 2009
That American Jew Jack Bernstein hit the nail right on the head. That is the
root of the problem. It is like nobody is immune from Zionist criticism. When
you step into their territory, this ensures a criticism free zone for them
because people are too scared of being name called. I agree with every
point he stressed and it is what I was trying to say all the time. If you notice
drizza our media and people calling others anti-Semites never do any refuting at
3903 cr points all they just call your information ridiculous and leave it at that. I have
always stated how that word was a smoke screen. Even Israeli Jews will tell
Send Message:
you "It's a trick we use it all the time." http://www.youtube.com/watch?
M / Yo Mommas House
v=jUGVPBO9_cA.
Anyways back on topic. It is strange how Israel manages to get in between

every conflict that happens in our country (911) yet we still back them. Our
own media won’t even investigate the overwhelming evidence against them.
Thanks for coming back Ansar that was an incredible read.

Posted Oct 16, 2009
SeraphAlford wrote:
You’re completely right. I’m a Zionist lying jackass silencing brilliant holocaust
denying minds like you simply because I do not want to accept the truth.
Astonishing confession. O_O

oh, sarcasm.
Oh... wait....
Ryutai-Desk
11142 cr points
Send Message:
14 / F / Indonesia Raya
Posted Oct 17, 2009
Thanks for the admission SeraphAlford but I would make one slight
correction. Instead of "holocaust denying" the proper label for myself, Iran's
Ansar president Ahmadinejad, the Jewish group Neturei Karta and thousands of
43 cr points others is "holocaust fact finding". We don't deny that Jews, gypsies and
others were murdered by the Nazis. What we question is the 6,000,000
Send Message: number, ridiculous stories about soap, lamp shades, etc being made from
34
their bodies, gas chambers being used to kill people, etc. Rather than
condemn and put us in jail for using reason to address these claims, prove
them and do so publicly on TV, etc so that if you are right we could
permanently be dismissed once and for all.
Your statement should now properly read:
You’re completely right. I’m a Zionist lying jackass silencing brilliant holocaust fact
finding minds like you simply because I do not want to accept the truth.
Now that's a wrap!!!
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What follows is a debate regarding the forensic evidence related to

9/11, holocaust denial, and freedom of thought. A Muslim using the

This was an open debate on the Crunchyroll forum, and as such

Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics,

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So apparently a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their computers is

In other words, stop trolling.

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In other words, stop trolling.

Haha... In other words you should learn to READ FOR

1. Michael Chertoff is the Homeland Security chief

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In other words, stop trolling.

3. Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers,

"Conspiracy theories can't stand up to the hard facts," the cover

The lead editorial by James Meigs, Editor-in-Chief of PM carries the

Why don't you answer some of these questions first:

1. Why would the government do this? To go to Iraq to make their own

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In other words, stop trolling.

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Oh America, America, why is it that there are so many wannabe Sherlock

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I will answer each of your questions in the following posts.

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The assumption that approval ratings should be enough of deterrence for

This idea of approval ratings being a deterrent to going to war in Iraq is a

2. Andreas von Buelow, PhD – Former State Secretary of the Federal

” --like assailants who, in their preparations, leave tracks

3. Michael Shore in Israel states:

4. Japanese Legislator Demands Bush Tell Truth About Sept.11:

“Fujita demanded to know if his government had conducted any 9-11

5. Francesco Cossiga – President of Italy, 1985-1992. Also served as

Article Corriere della Sera, 11/30/07: Mr. Cossiga commenting on a

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“Many respected senior members of the military, intelligence services, and

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You need to familiarize yourself with the "Rules of Disinformation". Many

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered,

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Don't you remember the link I put up in the 9/11 thread?

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It amazes me how when it comes to Israel, people have selective blindness.

Reactions from the Iranian side to the September attack:

Farooza Pourkey, terrorism expert at Khomeini University in Tehran, said

8. It was the Iranian general counsel Mohammad Nasruddin Mehdi who

As an example of the many reports throughout the world implicating Iranian

”A US military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligence

14. An abnormal amount of put stock options were purchased against

With all this evidence of Iranian involvement, corrupt U.S. government

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See, now you’re judging me to be racially suspicious of Iranians prior to me

I’m actually a Muslim sympathizer, and honestly I think Iran is more

You’re right. The discrimination against men because of their Iranian

As far as not seeing any refutation, I think you’re dodging. I demonstrated

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I can confirm that Finkelstein, a famous holocaust minimizer, receives interviews

Now, from my other post:

also from my other post:

** Spoiler Alert!!! click to hide or show**

Debate - 9/11 Forensic Evidence, Holocaust Denial & Freedom of Thought

Debate - 9/11 Forensic Evidence, Holocaust Denial & Freedom of Thought

Spoiler Alert!!! click to hide or show

Spoiler Alert!!! click to hide or show

Spoiler Alert!!! click to hide or show