Fwd: Met

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Shirley Pardue <shirleypardue69@gmail.com> Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 10:03 PM

To: jackrisner2121@gmail.com

This le is a par t of the Rhodium site ar chive. This Aug 2004 static snapshot is hosted b y Erowid
as of May 2005 and is not being updated. > > Back to Rhodium Ar chive Index > >

T C B
by Mister_Clean (r etired)

This post is intended as a nal answer t o all those nagging bir ch questions that k eep popping up. Befor e
I begin, I would lik e to make one thing per fectly clear:

THE BIRCH IS A D ANGEROUS REA CTION AND SHOULD NO T BE ATTEMPTED B Y AMATEURS. I mean no
disrespect to anyone by this statement, I just dont think it has been emphasiz ed enough how danger ous
this reaction can be.

An OVERVIEW:

Technically, the birch reaction refers to reduction b y sodium dissolv ed in ammonia. Lithium/NH3
reduction is not actually a "bir ch" but for simplicities sak e I will refer to it in this manner .

When lithium is dissolv ed in ammonia it r eleases an electr on, referred to as a "solvated electr on" . The
solvated electr on produces a "r oyal blue" color in the ammonia, which, depending upon concentr ation,
can appear almost black.

Two electrons are required to reduce a molecule of ephedrine int o methamphetamine. Ther efore the
proper molar r atio for reactants is 2L i to 1 pseudo. The amount of ammonia pr esent is not impor tant, as
long as it is sufcient t o dissolve all the Li pr esent.

This 2-1 ratio is EXTREMELY impor tant. Too little Li and not all the pseudo will be r educed. Too much and
your pseudo will be O VER reduced. T his is the main r eason contaminants (including water) must be
avoided. The y will use up some of the electr ons, leaving you to "guess" how much Li y ou need. Your
guess will most lik ely be wrong.

The 2-1 ratio is based on FREEBASE st ock. If you use pseudo HCL, then the amount of Li r equired will be
higher.

CLEANING PSEUDO PROPERL Y:

Placebo's lesser cur e, followed b y an a/b extraction, is sufcient. Those of y ou using equate suphedrine
will have to change y our source, as they have been reformulated with so much po vidone the y will literally
turn to jello upon basifying.

Obtaining Li:
Eveready AA siz e batteries contain .9 4g of Li each. it is found in a flat metal strip inside the batter y which
is light grey. There is another strip inside these batteries which appears s hiny. The shiny strip is tr ash. All
other Li batteries should be a voided. The AA 's are out there. Look for them.

Obtaining anhy drous ammonia:

The ammonia used must be " anhydrous". It is impossible t o use any form of aqueous ammonia dir ectly.
Anhydrous ammonia is a gas at r oom temper ature, and typically r equires around 100psi t o become liquid
at room temp. It is also liquid at -33c at standar d pressure.

Ammonia is a weak base, it is typically found as a salt in O TC fertilizers. Adding a str ong base, such as
NaOH (sodium hyr oxide or Red De vil) will replace the ammonia in the ammonia salt, fr eeing it to form a
gas. This gas can then be condensed in another container which is chilled below -33c.

Aqueous ammonia can be used only b y turning it int o a salt, then boiling off the ex cess water.A 1-1 molar
ratio is required for this, and as a mole of HCL weighs about twice what a mole of NH3 does , about twice
as much hcl b y weight is r equired.

THE REACTION:

There are several different opinions as t o how the r eaction should be done. Some people add the Li t o the
NH3 rst, in or der to ensure blueness. Some add the pseudo and Li altern ately, and some just chuck the
whole mess in t ogether. I dont really know WH AT the RIGH T way is, all I know is what seems right t o me.

Dissolve the pseudo in anhy drous isopropanol . I r ecommend about 6ml per gr am. Place it in a container
as close to the volume you have as possible. T ry to avoid air space as it will encour age condensation.
This amount of iso will not completely dissolv e it, but will mak e kind of a slush. Place this in the fr eezer a
few hours befor e your reaction is t o start.

If you already have anhydrous ammo nia, then peel y our batteries. This can be easily done b y cutting just
through the metal casing in a spir al pattern, gr abbing the end of the metal with needlenose pliers, and
unwrapping. This lea ves you with a paper wr apped cylinder . You now need 2 containers lled with
naptha. The rst container should be wide and flat enough that y ou can get both hands in (y our not
actually going t o PUT your hands in ther e, Tasty). the second is y our Li storage container. For the second
container it is helpful t o have something t o keep the Li below the sur face (it floats). A smaller plastic lid
will work, but be sur e to test it in the naptha befor e using to make sure it won't melt.

Take the paper cylinder and submer ge it in the lar ge container of naptha. Now tak e an exact o knife and
CAREFULLY slit the paper open. T ry not to go past the paper la yer with th e blade as it will shor t the Li
strip. Once the paper is slit, peel it off. This will expose the inner strips and carbon. Now unr oll the whole
mess quickly under the naptha. Once this par t is saturated with naptha it can no longer shor t out. Take
the grey Li strip, being car eful not to rip it, and put it int o the second container . Leave the carbon cr ap in
the rst container till y ou are done. P repare as many batteries as necessar y at this time.

IF YOU ARE CONDENSING Y OUR AMMONI A, do not unwr ap the paper until y ou have nished condensing,
just strip the metal casing.

Now for the fun par t....

If you have a tank, place it in a container of ice. After the tank is chilled, a dd rock salt to the ice. This will
drop it another f ew degrees.
Place your reaction vessel in ice and add an equal v olume of cacl2 t o the ice (this can be pur chased by
the gallon as concr ete acceller ant). The ice will star t to melt quite r apidly, but this will giv e you the low
temp necessar y to hold the ammonia. Fill the r eaction vessel with 250 m l of ammonia, plus another 100
ml for each ounce of pseudo.

Now add the pseudo t o the ammonia. Lea ve it in the ice and stir vigor ously.
WARNING: THE ADDED HEA T FROM THE PSEUDO / IP A WILL CA USE THE AMMONI A TO BOIL, ADD
SLOWLY.

Once the pseudo is in, and the temp has equaliz ed (ammonia not boiling off ) take your rst Li strip, rip off
about 1/5th of the strip and quickly pat it dr y on a paper t owel. Tear it into 2 or 3 pieces (small) and t oss
into the reaction vessel. Mix well.

WARNING: ONCE THE LI IS EXPOSED T O AIR IT WILL BEGIN T O REACT. THE PIECES WILL HEA T UP
SLOWLY AT FIRST, BUT AT AN EXPONEN TIAL RATE. THEY CAN BECOME HOT ENOUGH T O IGNITE YOU,
YOUR FURNI TURE, OR AN Y AVAILABLE WATER DROPLE TS.

When the pieces ar e almost complet ely dissolv ed (15-20 seconds) r epeat the pr ocess. As y ou near the
end of your Li, the pieces will tak e longer to dissolve, but keep adding at a steady rate of 1 piece e very 30-
45 seconds.

When all the Li has been added, and the temp has equaliz ed, remove the reaction vessel from the ice
bath. Place a lid on it with a tube going t o the bottom of a v e gallon buck et with about 1 1/2-2 gallons of
water inside. t o this water add 1/5th gallon of muriatic acid.

Do not submer ge the hose until the v essel is OUT of the ice. If y ou do, the cooling fr om the ice ma y cause
the acid water t o suck back. This will initiate a r ather unpleasant sequence of e vents.

Keep mixing the container for the ne xt 15-20 minutes. Then y ou may place a heater in fr ont of it to drive
off the ammonia. Do not heat T OO rapidly, for reasons which should be ob vious.

If and when y our water buck et starts to smell of ammonia, add hcl till the smell goes awa y, then add
more. You cant ha ve TOO much HCL .

When most of the ammonia is gone (30-45 minutes) then car efully remove the top of the rxn v essel. Dont
be a dumbass at this point and " sniff" the container . If there is still ex cess ammonia, it will be no secr et.

Pour in 100ml water per ounce of pr oduct, then y our favorite NP. Toluene is ne her e. Ether is not
recommended.

Now add NaOH in 1/4 teaspoon incr ements, mixing well each addition, until no mor e bubbles e volve. the
bubbles ar e from NH3 e volving from the water la yer.

Separate the NP and rinse with 2 small v olumes of NaOH solution (PH 13), then with a small v olume of
distilled water.

Dry the NP with bak ed epsoms, let the epsoms settle, then decant int o a clean container . lter the bott om
portion of the NP t o catch any str ay salt.

Gas, lter, recrystalize, and enjo y.

CONDENSING AMMONI A FROM FER TILIZER (OR AN Y AMMONI A SALT):



A plastic gas can is used her e as the generator. This is used because the soft sides allow y ou an idea of
the system pr essure. There are many other containers which ma y be used, but I cant think of any which
are as forgiving.

While gener ating, the system pr essure will fluctuate. If y our system cannot tak e 20 PSI, then y ou should
redesign it.

During normal oper ation it should run 5-7 psi.

The principle of this oper ation is that " the str onger base liber ates the weak er base from it's salt." If your
salt is ammonium chloride, then y ou would add sodium hy droxide to it to liberate the ammonia. the
reaction goes: NH4CL+NaOH = heat + NaCl + H20 +NH3. The r eaction requires a small amount of water
to initiate, but once it star ts it produces it's own water (as well as salt). Notice that the r eaction pr oduces
heat (exothermic) as this is gonna be impor tant later.

To produce a liter of ammonia y ou will need about 2 kilos of ammonia salt, as well as 2 kilos of NaOH.
This is a theor etical minimum.

When buying f ertilizer, look for "ammoniacal nitr ogen". Forget "total nitrogen" or "urea". If your fert is 20%
ammoniacal nitr ogen, then y ou will need 10 kilos minimum t o produce a liter. If you shoot for a liter , you
will likely make 1/2 that much.

The amount of water r equired to initiate the r eaction is quite small. If y ou live in a humid climate, y ou
wont have to add any.

As water is pr oduced, it absorbs NH3. wher ever you have water in the sys tem you will ha ve lots of nh3.
This includes in y our drying tube. That is why y our salt and NaOH should be added dr y.

Now, your ammonia gener ator is for the most par t a closed system. The NH3 is going t o expand fr om the
generator, and shrink as it cools on the wa y to the condenser . So your generator is humming along,
producing heat, gas, and water , until it reaches a point at which ther e is so much water being cr eated that
it stops pushing ammonia. The water then begins t o cool, and as it cools, becomes capable of holding
even MORE ammonia. Suddenly , your reaction that was pushing ammonia is now PULLING ammonia.
This is "suckback".
When your system star ts to suck, you should, quick as a bunny , open your generator. If you do not, then
the ammonia fr om the condenser will be suck ed back int o your drying tube, and you will wish t o god you
had just scr aped the damn matchbooks. This is a good time t o recharge the gener ator.

WARNING ABOUT AMMONI A:

Ammonia will seek out and bond with any nearb y water. This means y our eyes and air way. You should
always have a few gallons of water h andy to dowse y ourself with, as it ma y save your life. One breath of
concentrated ammonia v apor is enough t o burn your trachea and mak e it impossible t o breathe.

High concentr ations of ammonia (abo ve 15%) are explosiv e. Keep this in mind when its time for y our mid
reaction toke.

Gas law sa ys that 1 mole of any gas will occup y 22.4 liters of v olume at standar d temp and pr essure. A
mole of ammonia is 17 gr ams. In shor t, it takes very little ammonia t o ll up a r oom.

Anhydrous ammonia is liquid at standar d pressure only below -33c (-28f ). This temper ature is quite
sufcient t o freeze various body par ts.

Do not drop money into your ammonia. It will shrink (thank y ou slydog for this contribution).

Be sure your connections ar e airtight BEFORE making/using ammonia. A seemingly minor leak smaller
than a pinhole will e vacuate a r oom.

If there is a problem with ammonia, d ump water on it and GE T AWAY. Hold your breath till you are sure
your clear.

DISSECTING THE AMMONI A GENER ATOR

GENERATOR: (the "gas can"). This is where the ammonia is liber ated from the salt. It is impor tant to
realize that this par t of the unit r equires CONSTANT attention. The pr effered method is t o start off with
20 ml or so of water (y ou may also use aqua ammonia for a little extr a kick). pour a la yer of DRY
ammonia salt on t op, then add the NaOH and quickly seal the unit.the salt and ly e are added dr y so that
they do not react too rapidly. once the unit is sealed, begin shaking t o mix the f ert/lye. within a minute
you will see the gener ator beginning t o pressure up. Shak e intermittently t o maintain a constant,
moderate pressure. The best wa y to determine the right pr essure is to pay attention t o the condensor
pressure relief valve. When ammonia fumes begin t o emit strongly, back off the pressure till there is only
a very faint amonia odor fr om the relief.

Be sure to layer your fert/lye in the pr oper ratio, with a slight ex cess of Na OH. So for a 20% f ertilizer, you
would add about 1/4 lb of NaOH for each LB of f ert.

Small layers work best. Y ou will be r echarging every 15-30 minutes on a verage.

This process takes time. Expect t o wait an hour for y our rst ML of ammonia. Mr Cleans rst attempt
required about 8 hours t o generate 500 ml. It also t ook almost 30lbs of f ert and 7 lbs of NaOH, as well as
25lbs of dr y ice. It gets easier , though.

The generator will get hot. expect temps ar ound 140-150f.

The generator must be watched constantly . It can go fr om positiv e to negative pressure in less than 1
minute. If y ou have to take a leak, don't dally.

After you have been running it for a while, condensation will form in the h ose coming fr om the gener ator.
(it should form a U shape befor e going to the precooler) You can watch the water dr oplets to get an idea
of the flow r ate.
PRECOOLER: when y our ammonia exits the gener ator, it will be ar ound 140f. to condense ammonia, y ou
will need t o cool this below -28f, in other wor ds, its gotta dr op almost 170 degr ees. You will be ther e an
extra day or two if y ou expect y our condenser t o do ALL the work.

When the hot ammonia is gener ated, it carries a substantial amount of moistur e as well. The pr ecooler
will captur e a good por tion of this, en suing that y our drying tube does not get overloaded.

The precooler cools in two wa ys. Firstly by heat transfer to the ice bath, and secondly b y expansion of the
gas.

As water condenses her e, it will trap ammonia with it. Due t o the low water temp, this will be about 70-
80% AQUA AMMONI A (NH4OH). T owards the end of ammonia gener ation you may either:

1. remove the precooler from the ice bath, liber ating ammonia as it warms up or

2. neutralize with HCL, making nh4cl .

Whatever you do, be sur e that the tub e end from the gener ator never becomes submer ged. It will suck
the water int o the gener ator and kill the r eaction.

Drying tube: This is ele vated above the other components, mainly t o condense and dr ain back water
before it reaches this point. Ther e are also other r easons for the ele vation that I would pr efer not to
discuss right now (bad memories).The dr ying tube should be thought of n ot as a primar y way of drying
your gas, but as a last stand barrier in case some slips thr ough.

Do NOT attempt t o cool your drying tube. It will cause ex cess nh3 t o be collected ther e, and will seriously
fuck up your cacl2.

CONDENSER: this is submer ged in a dry ice/solv ent bath. An inner tube which r eaches the bott om will
substantially impr ove nh3 condensation. Putting y our PFED/ISO solution here rst, and causing the nh3
to bubble thr ough it, will gr eatly spee d condensation, as the alc will act as a heat sink.

The condenser should ha ve a large surface area, and rapid thermal tr ansfer characteristics. do not skimp
here. Stainless steel and bor osilicate glass work best. A void thick glass or plastic.

A while back, some bees wer e recommending using antifr eeze as a dr y ice solvent. This WILL NO T
WORK WELL. antifr eeze does not tr ansfer heat wor th a damn. I did nd, howe ver, that adding a f ew
ounces to the bath will incr ease the l ifespan of y our ice consider ably.

How do you keep the condenser fr om bobbing in the ice bath? T ry adding a small amount of water t o the
bath. It will fr eeze at the bott om, sticking the container ther e.

When the ammonia is condensing, ther e will be lots of v apor, and determ ining the ammonia le vel can be
quite difcult. Giv e some thought as t o how you will do this.

TUBING: I pr efer 1/4" vinyl tubing. It seems t o work best.

FAQ:This is a list of questions fr om the boar d. Some wer e included her e to elaborate on various par ts of
the reaction, while others wer e included just because the y were so damn stupid/funny I couldn 't resist.
Also included ar e a couple of answer s by me which ar e incorrect. The corr ect answers follow the
"OOPS".

What are the corr ect ratios of reactants for a bir ch? And how much Li is in those batteries?

Energizer AA Li batteries contain exactly .94g of Li per ser ving.

(this info fr om an engineer for e veready)
PS: ephedrine/psuedoephedrine fr eebase = 165.24 g/mole
Li=6.94 g/mole
10 g Li soluble in 100g NH3

nh3~5lb/gallon .68g /ml (accor ding to msn encar ta) therefore:

For a 28.8 g bir ch using PURE psuedo fr eebase you would need:
2.41 g li or appr ox 2.57 aa strips
39 ml anhy drous nh3
a really good fume hood.

The 2450's are .47G of Li. the yre good for about 5.5g each.

The nh3 amount is an EXTREME minimum. Y ou will alwa ys lose a little when y ou add your Li and y our
psuedo/IPA.

Personally I ha ve never imagined tr ying less than 300 ml for 28.8g. extr a nh3 never hurt anyones
birch.But from what I ha ve read the THEORE TICAL minimum is MUCH less.

PS: due to losses in liber ating the Li strips, if one did not ha ve a reallly good scale, I would r ecommend
using ~ 2 3/4 strips. I imagined this work ed PERFEC TLY where refrigerant grade ammonia was used, with
28.8g of psuedo fr eebase yielding 26 .9g of glasslik e needles. Unfor tunately, My last dr eam about
ammonia fr om fert was done befor e I had the corr ect weight. I Do know that 3 1/4 strips pr oved to be
slightly ex cessive.

Is there any way to test the purity of the recovered NH3?

In other wor ds, is ther e a way to test liquid NH3 t o determine if ther e is a small H2O contamination?

As the condenser is chilled in the neighborhood of -70c ther e is an easy indicat or of h20. Its called ICE.
There has been no ice.

OOPS: turns out, the fr eezing point o f NH4OH (aqua-ammonia) is 1 degr ee higher than the fr eezing point
of anhydrous ammonia.

A better answer would be that, if y our drying tube is set up lik e I diagrammed it, then ther e is no wa y a
signicant quantity of water will come thr ough.

Umm.... can silica gel be used as the dr ying agent? Pr obably not I' m guessing, but no one ar ound here
seems to have ever heard of Damp R id or Dry Rite. It's a very warm, dr y state.

I live in the deser t, and I can nd it. Look at a contr actor suppy house for concr ete accelerr ant. Do not use
epsom salt in y our DRYING TUBE. the magnesium will hur t your reaction. I use a paper t owel at the tube
opening and in the t op of the jar t o prevent tube gumming and k eep the dr ying agent fr om getting int o the
tubing. NaOH ma y also be used. It is not as efcient v olumetrically as CaCl2, but y ou WILL know when its
used up.

Hows the bio assa y of birch product compar ed to rp/i?

If you have done both corr ectly, then the bioassa y should be exactly the same. The meth is the same
molecule, so the only possible diff erence would be impurities. I belie ve it more likely that you would ha ve
unreacted pphed in a bir ch.

If the batter y shorts it's gone for good... right?

Depends on what y ou mean b y "shorted". If the Li becomes o xidized, then that o xidized portion is
worthless. If the sur face of the Li is co vered with oxidation, that can be r emoved. If it is light o xidation, it
will come off when y ou blot it on the t owel befor e tossing it int o the reaction.

Here's a question for the chemically inclined out ther e. It seems t o me that adding a f ew chunks of dr y
ice to the INSIDE of a homemade ammonia condensor would gr eatly increase the rate of ammonia
condensation.

This will cr eate byproducts. It is not necessar y if your condenser has eno ugh surface area.

Swim opened a " AA"energizer lithium battery, and when swim pulled out the r olled up contence swim
found a little piece of metal that was folded o ver the roll, swim unr olled it and found what y ou said
would be ther e, a long shine y strip and another strip that was a little (dull) and not as shine y as the
other strip, and then the (dull) not so shine y strip star ted turning dark in colour, so why did it do that,
and is it still alright t o use. Swim also said that ther e was fumes and a awfull fucking smell when he
opened it.

When you open a batter y in the air, two things will happen. First, the Li will star t reacting with the air , and
second the batter y will star t reacting with the other components of the batter y. the "rotten egg" smell is
from the electr olyte.

"If there is a problem with ammonia, dump water on it and GE T AWAY. Hold your breath till you are sure
your clear." Wouldnt an acid be bette r?

That is a r easonable assumption. HC L would neutr alize it well, howe ver in the reason I suggest water is:

1. I already said t o have a bucket of water standing b y.

2. If you have a problem, you wont ha ve time to be careful, and dumping 3 gallons of acid ma y cause
other problems.
3. If the ammonia douses y ou, which would y ou rather pour on y ourself?
Otherwise, good idea.

The addition of the IP A+pfed generates gas. How much? Lets sa y theres 350 ml anhy dous sitting ther e?
How much will boil off in terms of ml' s and fume wise?

The amount of gas that will boil of is v ariable. If y our ammonia is stabiliz ed in a cold bath, and the pf ed /
iso is added car efully, you wont lose more than a couple ml. The amount of nh3 y ou lose is going t o
depend upon y our technique, y our equipment, and ambient conditions. I dont measur e the quantity of
ammonia as I am per forming the r eaction. so the best answer I can giv e is "not much".

If you're somewhat efecent with th e process of peeling the caseing of the LI batteries, ther e isnt a
need to open them under y our solvent of choice.

Actually, it is fairly impor tant to saturate the batter y innards. When y ou cut the plastic open, y ou will nd
that the interior components ar e all quite soft. it is nearly impossible t o open the wr apper without
penetrating the lower la yers. If the thing is satur ated in NP solv ent, then it wont shor t. If it is not, it almost
certainly will. Y ou may not lose all the Li b y opening in this manner , but you WILL lose some. By opening
in the manner I ha ve described, y our Li will be almost completely uno xidized.

Do you have to ice down the ammonia tank befor e discharging?

Icing the tank is necessar y here, if yours is already at 0c, I wouldnt think it necessar y. The reason I
recommend icing the tank is simple. It drops the pr essure from 100psi t o (what was that damn gas law
again?) about 30psi. the v alves on nh3 tanks ar e designed for on-off oper ation, and the y arent very good
at regulating the flow , so you want to have every advantage possible whe n decanting.

Do I NEED dr y ice?

I recommend a dr y ice bath if y ou are GENERATING ammonia, but if y ou have a tank, just use equal
(weight) amounts of ice and CaCl2. E qual amounts of ice and H2SO4 will work as well, but can be r ather
hazardous.

My $8 batte y is an ener gizer for camer as in a blue package with a black top. Is this the " AA" you are
refering to? (I've only seen these and the 2450' s)

Wrong batter y. You want the $2 aa ba tt. It looks lik e a regular aa batter y, (different color) no black t op.
Sighted recently at home depot and w ally world.
They are made by energizer and come in two v arieties. a r ed topped batter y and a silv er batter y. Just like
what you would put in y our walkman.

We all know that the pills ha ve been messed with big time lately , and that one of the adv antages of the
birch is that it works with gr ound up messed up pills. I'v e been reading about lithium carr yover into
product, and it driving the consumer s to the end of their r opes. I ha ve a question. When dealing with a
messed up pill, how after the bir ch, is purication carried out? Ar e the ingredients just as tr oublesome?
A water wash would r emove the lithi um salts, but if the pills r etain their tr oublesome r eaction to water,
the problem is only dela yed. Could s omeone comment?

You could just grind up the pills and t oss them in, and y ou WOULD end up with meth. Howe ver you would
have to know EXA CTLY what else in t he pills is going t o be reduced, how much Li that will r equire, and
what the b yproducts will be. Lithium carryover is bullshit. Lithium will not carr y over into your NP unless
you REALLY screwed up, and a water wash would r emove it quite easily . I think it mor e likely that
ammonia is carried o ver. As for purication, the methods used for RP/I work nicely .

I have come to utilize these measur es during said r eaction. First, addition of minimal amount of miner al
spirits to dissolve freebase and lte r through a thick medium paper lter (if one is using coff ee lters
use the cone type; do not use bask et type) add 50% mor e ms solv ent to ltered ms then add minimal
amt. of MEK or DMK (pr eferably MEK as it is less hy groscopic), one could also add some ether as a
third solvent. Multiple solv ent is the n gassed t o obtain go-go hcl. Go-go obtained has consistency lik e
styrofoam is r eally light and clean; in my neck of the woods has become t o be known as "Divinity ".

Well, in my neck of the woods we cal l it ammonium chloride. Divinity does ha ve a nice ring t o it, though.
You have certainly elevated screwing up to an ar t form. Using thr ee different solvents will mak e sure you
get the most impurities possible.

What, lithium? That shits supposed t o make you happy, not sick. But, if y ou feel that its tainting y our
product and making people sick, wh y not switch t o another viable metal, such as sodium.

Actually, sodium is a BE TTER metal t o use, due t o it's lower electr onegativity, it is less lik ely to overreduce
product. As far as making y ou happy, I assure you that LiOH will NO T make you happy when you snor t it.
The main r eason sodium is not used is because it is difcult t o obtain. It is used for a v ariety of O-chem
processes and is only a little less watched than RP . It can be made b y electrolysis of NaOH, but the
process is a little t oo scary for me to attempt.

The EDA thingy is still a viable r oute for hone y production right? I am about t o dream a dream with ED A
so I hope so.

So far I ha ve seen no cr edible reference to a succesful separ ation of the p roduct from the ED A. I don't
know the secr et, but I am pr etty sure it will involve low temps, long r eaction times, iner t atmospher e, and
a complex separ ation.

I understand wher e you are comming fr om arent you expecting a little much fr om us hiv e members? Do
we really need t o how and why the r eaction works? It just does, doesnt i t? That how and why could only
be answer ed AFTER a few years in school.

If you screw up this one, assuming y ou live through it, the most lik ely result will be ten y ears of
uninterrupted study time at the near est federal education facility . The reaction is basic and can be
learned and fully underst ood by anyone with at most 2 months of study . Knowledge is a par t of who y ou
are, and it is one of the f ew things that cannot be tak en from you. I have an 8th gr ade education, y et I
learned everything I know about the bir ch reduction in thr ee weeks. I ne ver even had to go to the library.

Too bad ther e isn't some kind of sem i-permeable membr ane which allows the ammonia t o pass
through, but not the water v apor. Or is there?

Unfortunately, ammonia forms a compound with water , rather than a mixtur e. So it is not possible t o
separate from water b y mechanical m eans.

Why can't I just use aqua ammonia? Li will r educe pseudo in the pr esence of H20.

(Answer pr ovided by Osmium)

Li + H2O -------> LiOH + 0.5 H2
Li [6g/mol]
H2O [18g/mol]
For every gram of H2O pr esent you need at least 0.33g Li.
So what if I used 1l of 30% NH3? Cool, only about 250g of Li needed t o dry it! And don't forget the liquid
N2 to cool this bomb...

Do u use liquid f erterlizer or soild?

I recommend adding the N AOH DRY,DRY,DRY,DRY.(emphasis intended) adding in liquid form, or t o a liquid
is not a good idea because:
1. water quenches this r eaction by absorbing mucho ammonia
2. a large amount of liquid will cause the ammonia y ou DO produce to be released v ery fast, like before
you can get the lid back on. I made the mistak e of adding naoh t o nh4cl in liquid form (fr om 1/4 gallon of
aqua ammonia) my friend who liv ed 3 BLOCKS AWAY mentioned an ammonia stink at HIS house. wanna
guess how fun that was? Or y ou could just tr y it... lol. But seriously , the little h20 I do add t o kick the
reaction off is under a la yer of fertilizer. the DRY NAOH is pour ed on top, and gentle shaking star ts the
reaction AF TER the lid is on.

Hey what brand is used for a solid f erterlizer???

Fertilizer availability v aries depending upon y our climate. Wher e I live fertilizer blended specically for
cactus, citrus tr ees, and date palms i s prevalent in st ores. So it would be useless for me t o specify a
brand or type because it will lik ely not even exist in y our area. Look for the highest ammount of
"ammoniacal nitr ogen". alternately, it is not difcult t o source or synthesiz e straight ammonium chloride,
which mak es for a MUCH mor e efcient reaction.

Can't I just use a canning jar for my gener ator?

Do not tr y to use a glass ammonia gener ator, you will ha ve nothing in the system to absorb ex cess
pressure, and can easily ha ve a blowout, or lose y our ammonia thr ough suck back. canning jars ar e
designed t o withstand gr eat NEGATIVE pressure, not positiv e. Besides, if you are using fertilizer with 20%
ammoniacal content, y ou will need ar ound 20 Lbs of the stuff, and its har d to nd a canning jar that siz e.

Why do you use the 2-1 ammonia salt t o fertilizer ratio?

The correct ratio for naoh-nh3 fr om salt is about 1-1.8. I use a little higher r atio to account for impurities
in the fertilizer. It seems t o work better for me.

Can't you just pipe the gas fr om the generator straight into your garden after running thr ough a dr yer?

Actually, I was for ced to do this once due to a system failur e which resulted in insufcient ammonia. It
worked quite well as 50g of pr oduct was pr oduced from less than 200ml of ammonia, but I am not sur e if
the ammonia piping in made a diff erence. The 200ml ma y have been entir ely sufcient b y itself.
I would use a lar ge erlenme yer flask for the condenser , or a large round bottom flask. Also I would curl
the input hose of the condenser ar ound the bott om of the flask so that the NH3 gas H AS TO stay in the
flask longer and with hopefully condense quick er.

Actually, I believe I mentioned that. V essel 4 has a L OOP around the bott om. The lar ge ehrlenme yer is a
good idea though. P erhaps If the y have one at home depot I will get one.

What kind of ttings do y ou use?

I use ttings which ar e L shaped with threading on 1 end. I use NO epo xy or glue. The ttings ar e right
next to the vinyl tubing at some major har dware store. I drill a hole, tap it(not necessar y, but I gotta use
this damn tap and die set sometime), and scr ew the tting in with L OTS of teflon tape. The tubing goes
on the outside of 1 end on the L and inside the other . The press t seal is ex cellent by itself, and y es, it's
not technically " quick r elease", but it is quick.

Could you take the hose that lea ves the damp-rid jar and put a couple of rolls in the hose and then place
in a cooler of dr y ice and anti-fr eeze.the same hose then goes t o a 2nd c ooler of dr y ice and is hook ed
into the jar that is t o catch your gas that becomes nh3. Is this possible ar e is there anybody that can tell
me why this won 't work?

It will work, howe ver you run thr ee risks here.

1. Your tubing will become brittle fr om the extr eme cold, and ma y break.
2. Your tubing ma y be attack ed by the chemical y ou choose for y our bath (depends on type of tubing and
type of bath. Y ou will ha ve to check.)
3. You may go broke from all the dr y ice you must pur chase.
My pre cooler will r emove a similar amount of heat,(perhaps mor e), more safely, and with only about 1.25
worth of chemicals. (mor e cheaply if you make your own ice... see the faq on cr ytalline h2o pr oduction if
you are unsure how to do this).

But you ARE thinking along the right lines... how about this:
1. Reduce the diameter of y our tubing. less v olume = less heat
2. Increase the length of y our tubing.
or
3. Coil this ex cess tubing of y ours in an icewater/salt bath.
you will obtain mor e benets fr om pre-cooling if y our effor ts are concentr ated BEFORE the dr yer IMHO.

There's a whole lot of cheap gizmos used for drip irrigation that might be REAL cool for this application:
including anti siphon v alves that would dis allow " suck back"?

I like vinyl tubing. I ha ve not had pr oblems with clogging, I am just par anoid about clogs in the dr ying
tube. Perhaps this par anoia is WH Y I haven't had any pr obs. As for the tubing siz e, I do not speak fr om
experience on that, only common sense. A smaller diameter tubing has a thinner wall thickness (less
insulation) and giv es the hot gas mor e surface area to dispel heat thr ough. I guess y ou have to actually
try this reaction to appreciate the amount of heat pr oduced, and heat is not our friend her e.

OOPS: The 1/4 inch tubing is best all ar ound. Smaller diameters push mor e water dr oplets fur ther
through the system. 1/4" is OPTIM AL.

How do you tell how much NH3 is in ther e? Does it matter how much Li is needed if ther es "too much"
NH3 compar ed to E?

I take a flashlight, pop the t op, and look. This is pr obly the har dest par t, guessing the amount collected.
picking up the container and swirling it will also giv e you a pretty good idea. but, as I'v e posted, the
amount of ammonia r equired is actually quite small, and an ex cess wont really hur t. the ammonia 's just a
solvent for the Li, and doesnt tak e part in the reaction.
How long ar e your tubing?

Long as possible. Ther e is a total of 22 feet in my setup.

Whats the best containers for the pr e-chill (a gallon plastic milk jug?), the dr ying tube and gas
generator?

For the pre chill, any will do, I used a SS kitchen canister for my last dr eam, a quar t canning jar would
work ne. I'd stay away from a milk ju g unless y ou know how t o make a strong tight seal ther e. My drying
tube is a quar t mason jar lled 3/4 of the wa y with cacl2.

When you poked holes in y our thermos, did the glass shatter inside? Could i use something else since
the thermos ob viously isnt one anym ore now that the v acuum is gone?

A thermos w/ a glass liner will not work. mine has a SS liner . stanley and alladin mak e them in lar ge
sizes. you can use an alternate cond enser made of glass or stainless steel (stainless pr efferred) . Bear in
mind the eff ectivness is go verned by the sur face area for condensation, and the heat tr ansfer
characteristics of the material used. thats why SS works so well her e.

NOTE: After working with the thermos for a while, I switched t o a large (3.5L) SS cylinder with about 6
1/2" diameter. That was the nal gener ation of the condenser for me.

How long does 5 lbs dr y ice last?

Not long enough.

Could you tell me mor e of what y ou mean by "heat transfer"?

Heat transfer is very simple. Some m aterials transfer heat faster than others. That' s it.

Aluminum, copper , and stainless ha ve the best heat tr ansfer capability. Borosilicate glass is usually made
pretty thin, so its not bad either . Plastics seem t o be the worst. If y ou have any questions, put the
container on a warm burner , put your hand inside, and time how long it ta kes to burn you.

Can I use CaOH instead of or in addition t o NaOH? (question r epeated 23 times in v arious forms)

DAMNIT, FORGE T THE FUCKING CaOH. USE SODIUM FUCKING H YDROXIDE. THIS BULLSHI T KEEPS
COMING UP AND I AM FUCKING TIRED OF I T. FUCK CaOH. JUST FUCKIN G FORGE T ABOUT I T. If you
want to use some weak ass shit use fucking baking soda and cook the shit out of it. F uck.

Ok, lets tr y this one: how much dr y ice and sludge can Y OUR little cooler hold?

I dont know, I've only put methanol, a cetone and poly ethylene gly col in mine. Ne ver tried sludge.
Seriously, it's a six pack cooler , a lunch cooler , whatever, it doesn't matter how big it is.

Is it possible t o time the r eaction pr ecisely so that one knows when blow back will occur?

Yes. It is also possible t o launch a satellite fr om ear th and use the gr avity of various planets t o sling it
across the solar system. The math inv olved is similar in complexity .

Also, are you L-tubings fatter on one end, so that it looks lik e a plastic marijuana pipe? If so does the
fat end go in or outta the gasoline can and bell jar?

The ttings look lik e little pot pipes, y es. The L goes t o the outside. Y ou COULD put them t o the inside,
but out is easiest. Please don 't be smokin dope outa the ttings.

I'm looking for a one wa y valve (thanx dwar fer), so far only a 3/4" metal has shown up, pr obably
insuffcient. Just what is a aut o stop pvc valve?

It's a car par t. just go t o auto zone and ask for a pcv v alve. It recycles fumes from the exhaust thr ough
the carbur eator or something lik e that.

I'm thinking of using a lar ge pressure cooker lined with plastic instead of a gas can. Then when
pressure drops I'll know, and I can snip the lines a put them in the HCl. S urly I'd be staring at that gauge
for a long damn time huh? Does any one know if the NH3 fumes will destr oy my guage?

Depends on the type of gauge used. The y DO make gauges for anhy drous ammonia, which star t at about
$250. I look ed at some o xygen gauge s, but they are nickel plated br ass, which would not work well at all.

As for the gas can, perhaps y ou are missing the point. the expansion and contr action does not only
GAUGE the pr essure, it also helps r egulate it. With a soft sided gener ator, the transition fr om positiv e to
negative pressure is MUCH slower , taking 2-3 times as long. This giv es you more time to react to it.

I'd like to experiemnt, but that would be a HUGE loss. Because of the cruel laws of the univ erse, merely
heating fertilzier produces NO NH3, uhhhh, wouldn 't that be so damn easy? Is ther e anything y ou can
heat without water that will pr oduce NH3?

You could heat f ertilizer and NaOH. This would pr oduce MORE ammonia, but then y ou have the extra
heat to deal with. Heat is NO T your friend her e.

Or, I'm also thinking of manual r elease valves: one comes out the pr essure release mechanism of the
gas can, so I can turn the knob open int o HCl, and another at the condensor side, the nal exit, r ather
than peeling tape off e very now and then and stinking up the dump. So f ar though, only seen copper or
brass ones for water (faucet section) and that ma y be no good at the gas can end, or wouldnt it matter?

First, you DO NOT want a tube fr om the gener ator to an hcl buck et. Espec ially when y our pressure goes
negative. secondly, a one wa y valve will not entir ely solve the back pr essure problem. Thir d, a pressure
release valve at the gener ator would be redundant. y ou need to open it anywa y to recharge it. What better
time than right befor e it star ts to suck? four th, releasing pr essure from the condenser will not r elease a
lot of fumes unless y ou are overpressuring or the condenser is insufcient. During normal oper ation you
should not detect these fumes unless y our nose is within 2-3 f eet of the outlet. If y ou do, then back off on
the pressure.

FINAL CHAPTER:

This is the " catchall" section for this Birch FAQ.

The ammonia gener ator has gone thr ough a series of changes since built.

These are notes for using a thermos as the receiver. This had the adv antage of being v ery efcient with
the dry ice, but it was quite difcult t o drain the coolant and t o determine the level of the ammonia inside


Important notes on this:

1. Maybe you can drill thr ough the cap without br eaking it, but I couldnt. The curr ent cap is a rubber 1
hole stopper with 1/8 ID vinyl tubing running thr ough and (separ ate piece) continuing t o the bottom of
the thermos.

2. There is a thumbtack siz e hole (not shown) thr ough the t op of the thermos, co vered with duct tape.

3. The thermos was placed in a vise, and a 7/8" hole drilled with a drill pr ess (have fun trying this with a
handheld drill, it was not easy)

4. A funnel was used t o inser t nely crushed dr y ice, it was found necess esary to use a scr ewdriver to
force the ice thr ough the funnel.

5.Thermos is alladin br and, 1/2 gallon capacity .

6. Insulated lunchbo x was lined with pieces of br oken styrofoam cooler, then lled with low-expansion
polyeurethane foam. The r emaining par t of the thermos, sticking up abo ve the cooler, was also co vered
with this foam.

7. After using this condenser , I have decided I need a dr ain hole with a plug, as shown, t o empty coolant.
currently I must clamp input tube and invert to drain.

8. After reaching temp, the unit is v ery efcient, and ammonia was gener ated with less than 5lbs of dr y
ice.

And here is an idea for an alternate s tyle condenser (cour tesy Dwar fer) that I r eally liked, but ne ver had
the oppor tunity to try. I believe it has pr omise.

NH3 CONDENSER

This condenser section is a smaller PV C bucket inside another 5 gallon b ucket, the inter vening space is
foamed in....

A 50"+ piece of 1/4 " vinyl hose is installed spir aling downwar d exiting at the bott om and attaches
directly to the collect or.

And one other dwar fer concept. This one could use a little tweaking, but it' s good.
The change r equires another small pr essure sprayer to be used for inject ion of base int o the reaction
chamber. The reaction chamber can be any sealable lar ge port container. I still concur with Mr Clean that
it is extremely cool t o have the reaction chamber be a lar ge sprayer.

Should a mishap occur while pushing air , the hazar d is minimal: par ticularly when compar ed to a plunger
volume lled with hy droxide saturated liquid.

GHETTO ANNIE: a r esponse to using aqua ammonia in all the wr ong ways.

1. Freeze the water out: Bullshit. It is IMPOSSIBLE t o separate ammonia fr om H2O b y freezing. Her e are
the properties of NH3(anhy drous):

Formula: NH3

Molecular W eight: 17.030

Melting P oint: -77.73 C

Boiling Point: -33.34

Specic Gr avity: 0.77

Vapor Density: 0.597

Solubility: 89.9 mg/ 100 mL @ 0 C

### Well, Look at that... Nh3 is solub le in ice up t o an 89.9% solution... Hmmm, didnt we star t out with a
3% solution?####

..... do you think that the water left in the jug is M AGIC ROOM TEMPERA TURE LIQUID AMMONI A? Who
knows, Perhaps it is. I just know the aqua ammonia the y carry around here, even the 26 baume, has no
such magical fluid in it. Then again I am only ar ound std pr essure here. Perhaps some posters t o this site
live in denser atmospher es where ammonia IS liquid abo ve -33c..

2. Add NaOH in a bug spr ayer and allow the water t o escape thr ough the pressure release valve:

Dangerous Bullshit. P our NaOH int o a solution of aqua ammonia and y ou will get a violent r eaction as the
NaOH displaces the NH3, and y ou will get a v apor that spr ays out through the pr essure valve. Now do y ou
think that the v apor is the water that magically became lighter than nh3? I guess that the nh3 (gas)
released thr ough this pr ocess someh ow returns to a liquid which is so dense it displaces NaOH
saturated water.Once again it' s the magical ROOM TEMP AMMONI A.
"Wait", you cry.. the ammonia is UNDER PRESSURE in the bug spr ayer. It CAN be liquid at r oom temp!!!!

Well then! y ou must ha ve one hell of a bug sprayer to obtain that kind of p ressure, guess these farmers
are pretty stupid buying 300+psi stainless steel tanks when the y could just use a bug spr ayer. And if I
was a bug in y our neighborhood, guess I' d be crappin' my drawers about now .

3. Reactions with this " ghetto annie" report sparks, flames, small r es, etc:

Well then, lets do an experiment. T ake a little household ammonia, Satur ate it with naoh, and t oss in
some lithium. Get sparks, flames, etc? Gee, I guess all the fr eezer, bug sprayer, wait 72 hour cr ap was
unnecessar y.

Now read all the liter ature on Li bir ch reactions y ou can nd (fr om chem abstr acts, not some guy posting
his backyard birch). What r eaction di d the scientists with r eagent grade anh. ammonia and Li r eport?
Just "a blue color ". No sparks, no flam es... perhaps the y did it wrong.
 To Summariz e: if the people adv ocating this method r eally belie ve it works, then study this post, message
me, whate ver. If you know it doesnt work and y ou post it anywa y, keep in mind that someone who tries
this crap could end up hur t or very possibly dead, and thats alwa ys good for a laugh, right?.(if the y are
stupid enough t o try ghetto annie, then how car eful do you think the y will be?)

Hopefully this will put a lid on this stupid cr ap.

Teflon tape is y our friend. Y our CLOSE friend. Use it e verywhere you can think of.

AND TH AT'S ALL I KNOW ABOUT TH E BIRCH!

I hope I have contributed somewhat, but circumstances in my life have changed,

and this is no longer the place for me t o be.

Goodbye.

Clean.
Hive Chemist
6-19-00 to 10-03-00

The above has been edited for formating.

For archival purposes the exact text can be found herein an unformatted version, followed by other
relevant posts from that thread.
Layout by Unobtainium
(yes, I want cr edit for it dammit)

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: "Shirley Pardue" <shirleypardue69@gmail.com>
Date: Jan 28, 2017 12:18 PM
Subject: Met
To: <shirleypardue69@ail.com>
Cc:

https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/birch.mrclean.html

Shirley Pardue <shirleypardue69@gmail.com> Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:31 AM

To: jackrisner2121@gmail.com
Birtch
[Quoted text hidden]

Shirley Pardue <shirleypardue69@gmail.com> Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:32 AM

To: jackrisner2121@gmail.com

On Jan 28, 2017 10:03 PM, "Shirley Pardue" <shirleypardue69@gmail.com> wrote:

[Quoted text hidden]