The Origin of the Jiva

by Drutakarma Dasa

namo om visnu padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale

srimate bhaktivedanta svaminn iti namine

namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine

nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine

Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not differ from
others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated,
one cannot come to the right path by which religious principles are understood. The solid
truth of religious principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated self-realized person.
Consequently, as the sastras confirm, one should accept whatever progressive path the
mahajanas advocate.

Mahabharata, Vana Parva 313.117

The insignificant author of this book prays that if I am wrong in my presentations of this
matter, may the merciful Lord Krsna, who is very dear to the residents of Gokula, please
forgive me.

Jiva Goswami, Sri Krsna-sandarbha 181.2

9701 Venice Blvd. #5, Los Angeles, CA 90034

Phone: 310-837-5283, Fax 310-837-1056
drutakarma.acbsp@pamho.net

June 20, 2000

 The Origin of the Jiva
QUICK PATH

For those pressed for time, I would suggest reading: 1. Introduction, 2. Teachings of Srila Prabhupada,
up to and including section 2.4.2, the introductory paragraphs of section 4.5, section 4.5.5.1, and the
general conclusion at the very end. In between one will find many selections from the teachings of Srila
Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Srila Jiva Goswami, and
Srimad-Bhagavatam. The headlines give an indication of the subject matter. One can simply skim these,
picking out those of interest.

CONTENTS
1. INTRODUCTION
1.1 THE QUESTIONS
1.2 THE ANSWERS
1.3 HOW SHOULD WE ARRIVE AT AN ANSWER?

2. TEACHINGS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA

2.1 HAS SRILA PRABHUPADA ALREADY ANSWERED THE QUESTION OF THE ORIGIN OF
THE JIVA?
2.2 A PROPOSED SOLUTION TO THE CONTROVERSY
2.3 THE STRONGEST EVIDENCE: SRILA PRABHUPADAS DIRECT RESOLUTION OF A
CONTROVERSY IN ISKCON
2.3.1 Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila
2.4 SRILA PRABHUPADAS DIRECT ANSWERS TO DIRECT QUESTIONS
2.4.1 Introduction
2.4.2 Actually he has not fallen
2.4.3 So actually we are always in the spiritual world
2.4.4 In this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of coming down
2.4.5 We may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment
2.4.6 The soul may fall down from any position
2.4.7 If someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsna-loka, does he ever fall down?
2.4.8 We have got the independence to give up His company
2.4.9 Can he still fall?
2.4.10 If we are originally in the spiritual world...
2.4.11 As eternal servitors of Krsnaour constitutional positionwe fall down when...
2.4.12 You are not eternally conditioned
2.4.13 Marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world
2.4.14 Not from the impersonal brahman
2.4.15 There is possibility, but he does not come
2.4.16 Potency of falling down is always there
2.4. 17 If the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice
2.4.18 Yes, Krsna says, yes, you go.
2.4.19 You forced Krsna to allow you to come
2.4.20 We should remain with Krsna in the spiritual world
2.4.21 Our endeavor should be how to get our again original spiritual body

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 The Origin of the Jiva
2.4.22 Because we are small, minute fragments, sometimes we fall down
2.4.23 If he desires, he can come again
2.4.24 If we were originally in the spiritual world, why dont we remember that?
2.4.25 Then again his liberated life begins
2.4.26 We are playing with the big fire very nice, but there is chance of falling down
2.4.27 When he misuses independence he falls
2.4.28 When the living being imitates the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he falls
down
2.5 FURTHER CONCLUSIVE STATEMENTS
2.5.1 He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet
2.5.2 Down from Vaikuntha
2.5.3 Every living entity is originally a devotee of Krsna
2.5.4 Just try to revive your lost relationship with God, or Krsna
2.5.5 To revive our old relationship with God
2.5.6 Fallen means he has given up the service of Krsna and he has taken the service of
maya
2.5.7 Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated
2.5.8 Just to try to revive your original consciousness
2.5.9 You shall come back again to Me
2.5.10 Every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down
2.5.11 We are all originally situated on the platform of Krsna consciousness
2.5.12 We have given up the company of Krsna
2.5.13 I have given up service of Krsna
2.5.14 He falls down from his real engagement in the service of the Lord
2.5.15 To enjoy independently, without Krsna
2.5.16 Even if he is elevated to a Vaikuntha planet, he falls down
2.5.17 Even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down
2.5.18 They cannot remain in Vaikuntha world
2.5.19 We have fallen down, just like Jaya-Vijaya
2.5.20 All spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha
2.5.21 Revive his original state of loving service
2.5.22 Leaving His place, I have come to this material world
2.5.23 The servants who have rebelled against Krsna
2.5.24 We shall revive our original spiritual body
2.5.25 He revives his spiritual body
2.5.26 He has forgotten his relationship with Krsna
2.5.27 We will be reinstated in our original constitutional position
2.5.28 If we revive our original intimate relationship with Krsna
2.5.29 When the pure soul wants to give up the Lords service
2.5.30 There is only a material world for those who want to imitate the Lord
2.5.31 The rasas were originally exchanged between the spiritual living being and the
spiritual whole
2.5.32 The original position is one of rendering service
2.5.33 Return them to the normal stage of engaging the senses in the service of the Lord
2.5.34 Separated from the Supreme Lord
2.5.35 He should be restored to his pure identity
2.5.36 The omnipotent Lord displays his pleasure potency as the living entities
2.5.37 In our original relationship with the Supreme Lord there is real love
2.5.38 It is originally a part and parcel of the pleasure potency
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 The Origin of the Jiva
2.5.39 The living entity again becomes reinstated in his original position
2.6 CONCLUSION

3. EVIDENCE FROM SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM

3.1 INTRODUCTION
3.2 FOURTH CANTO: THE BRAHMANA AND QUEEN VIDARBHI
3.2.1 In the past you had a very intimate friend
3.2.2 Even while in that position, the Lord remains with him as the Supersoul, his intimate
friend
3.2.3 We are also associated with Krsna, as Paramatma within the heart
3.2.4 You gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world
3.2.5 We are still far away from our original home
3.2.6 The person I have described as unknown is the Supreme Personality of Godhead
3.2.7 The living entity falls down from the service of the Lord
3.2.8 Since you left Me, you have become more and more materialistic
3.2.9 You have forgotten your spiritual life
3.2.10 He regains his original Krsna consciousness, which was lost because of his material
attraction
3.2.11 When he forgets his supreme master, the Personality of Godhead
3.2.12 Not being interested in their real home, they are illusioned and search after other
homes
3.2.13 Conclusiveness of the Fourth Canto Evidence
3.3 SECOND CANTO: LORD BRAHMA
3.3.1 The eternally transcendental living entity
3.4 SECOND CANTO: SUKADEVA GOSWAMI
3.4.1 Spiritual and original bodies
3.5 THIRD CANTO: LORD KAPILA
3.5.1 Conditional life is due to his forgetfulness of his relationship with the Supreme
Personality of Godhead
3.5.2 He is forced to act in that way due to his offense in his eternal relationship with Krsna
3.5.3 I am separated from the Supreme Lord
3.6 FOURTH CANTO: MAHARAJA PRTHU
3.6.1 The forgetful living entity gradually remembers his eternal relationship with You
3.7 SIXTH CANTO: VRTRASURA
3.7.1 Will I again be able to be a servant of Your eternal servants?
3.8 SIXTH CANTO: SUPREME LORDS TEACHINGS TO CITRAKETU
3.8.1 When a living entity, thinking himself different from Me, forgets his spiritual identity
3.9 SEVENTH CANTO: PRAHLAD MAHARAJA
3.9.1 You are my eternal master
3.10 EIGHTH CANTO: KING SATYAVRATA

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 The Origin of the Jiva
3.10.1 One regains his original identity
3.10.2 The intelligent person receiving such knowledge is quickly situated in his original
constitutional position
3.11 TENTH CANTO: THE SAGES AT KURUKSETRA
3.11.1 Such a person loses his memory and cannot know You
3.12 ELEVENTH CANTO: REVERSAL OF POSITION
3.12.1 Instead of being the eternal servant of Krsna, he becomes Krsnas competitor
3.13 ELEVENTH CANTO: CAMASA RSI
3.13.1 If we do not serve the Supreme, then we fall down from our specified place
3.14 ELEVENTH CANTO: PINGALA THE PROSTITUTE
3.14.1 He falls into the dark well of material existence
3.15 ELEVENTH CANTO: LORD KRSNA
3.15.1 The spirit soul returns to its original position of serving Me in the spiritual world
3.15.2 He regains his ability to see Me, the Absolute Truth, in My subtle spiritual form
3.16 TWELFTH CANTO: SUKADEVA GOSWAMI
3.16.1 Material false ego obstructs the individual soul from realizing the Absolute Truth
3.16.2 He regains his original spiritual awareness
3.16.3 When the gross and subtle bodies die, the living entity within resumes his spiritual
identity
3.17 WHAT ABOUT JAYA AND VIJAYA?
3.17.1 So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of
Jaya-Vijaya
3.18 CONCLUSION

4. STATEMENTS OF THE PREVIOUS ACARYAS

4.1 INTRODUCTION
4.2 TEACHINGS OF BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA
4.2.1 When they forget their natural function as Krsnas servitors
4.2.2 The jiva, having forgotten his eternal relation with Krsna, has fallen into the sea of
Samsara
4.2.3 The jiva has forgotten that he is the eternal servitor of Krsna
4.2.4 Chit body of Jiva which was existent prior to its contact with matter
4.2.5 I am in essence, the eternal servant of Krsna
4.2.6 Jiva takes recourse to chit i.e. transcendental everlasting time in Vaikuntha
4.2.7 Forgetfulness of his essential swarup
4.2.8 Jivas aversion to Krsna
4.2.9 That rasa which taking to chit-swarup was pure bhava before has been perverted by its
impure reflection
4.2.10 When pure rati falls down in this mundane world, it mixes up with matter and
becomes perverted

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 The Origin of the Jiva
4.2.11 Nature that springs up with the formation of a thing is eternal and remains latent
though it is perverted or changed
4.2.12 When he forgets Krsna he is averse to serve Krsna
4.2.13 When he forgets this relationship he is overwhelmed by the influence of Maya
4.2.14 The Jiva is eternal and ever-existing, and his function (dharma) in the form of love for
Sri Krsna is also eternal
4.2.15 Forgetfulness of the reality that I am Krsnas eternal servant
4.2.16 The worldly course makes its appearance simultaneously with the Jivas loss of all
recollection of the servitorship of Krsna
4.2.17 So long as the Jiva continues pure, he cherishes his function as his own
4.2.18 Turned away from Krsna and as such, became punishable
4.3 TEACHINGS OF BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKURA
4.3.1 Jiva is eternal and is for eternity and without a beginning joined to the Supreme Lord
by the tie of an eternal kinship
4.3.2 When jivas begotten of the marginal potency (tatastha-sakti) forget the service of
Krsna, they are confined in the mundane prison house
4.3.3. Enjoy, cease to enjoy and go back to his original position
4.3.4 When we show our diffidence to serve the Absolute
4.3.5 We want to go back to our eternal Abode
4.3.6 Liberation is nothing but going back to the original position, that is offering our
services to the Eternal Being
4.3.7 We can go back to the higher Rasa
4.3.8 The eternal friend servitor will regain his position as such
4.3.9 It is the jivas who are the attendants in His sports
4.3.10 Whenever he chooses deliberately not to serve the Absolute he thereby ipso facto
looses this natural or free state
4.3.11 It is not good to be enticed to stay here for a long time, forgetting our original abode
4.3.12 When we want to deprive our Lord
4.3.13 The members of this potency are apt to be forgetful of their eternal situation
4.3.14 His original function of remembering his own eternal exploits
4.3.15 The individual souls serve Shri Krsna as constituents of Shri Radhika
4.3.16 The connection of jiva with Shiva and mahamaya . . . is established only when he is
disassociated from the service of Shri Radha-Krsna
4.4 TEACHINGS OF THE MADHVA SAMPRADAYA
4.5. TEACHINGS OF JIVA GOSWAMI
4.5.1 SRI BHAGAVAT-SANDARBHA
4.5.1.1 No one falls from Vaikuntha?
4.5.1.2 Regaining your natural position
4.5.1.3 The pure spirit souls, who are His marginal potencies
4.5.1.4 The individual soul becomes bereft of his natural spiritual opulences
4.5.1.5 Ones own home, where the Supreme Personality of Godhead lives
4.5.1.6 The fault of ignorance, which makes the living entity forget the Supreme
Personality of Godhead
4.5.1.7 The material ignorance potency makes the conditioned souls in the material
world forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead
4.5.2 SRI PARAMATMA-SANDARBHA

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 The Origin of the Jiva
4.5.2.1 By nature pure
4.5.2.2The individual soul . . . is, in his original spiritual nature, a servant of Lord
Hari
4.5.2.3 The ignorance that covers their true knowledge
4.5.2.4 The individual soul becomes bereft of his natural spiritual opulences
4.5.2.6 The pure soul enters the material world
4.5.2.7 In his original constitutional position
4.5.2.8 In his original spiritual nature he is a knower, a doer, and an enjoyer
4.5.2.9 His conception of life is reversed
4.5.2.10 The souls natural spiritual knowledge
4.5.2.11 When the gross and subtle bodies die, the living entity within resumes his
spiritual identity
4.5.2.12 He regains his original spiritual awareness
4.5.2.13 He loses all of his spiritual qualities
4.5.2.14 The conditioned soul has forgotten his true identity
4.5.2.15 The maya potency, which covers the real forms of the individual spirit souls
4.5.3 SRI TATTVA-SANDARBHA
4.5.4 SRI BHAKTI-SANDARBHA
4.5.4.1 Because the living entity has turned away from the Supreme Lord, the
material energy makes him forget and thus his own original spiritual form is no
longer manifested
4.5.4.2 Originally pure
4.5.4.3 He regains his ability to see Me
4.5.4.4 Returns to its original position of serving Me in the spiritual world
4.5.4.5 Engagement in pure devotional service is the natural position of all living
entities
4.5.4.6 The individual souls original nature is to be a servant of the Supreme Lord
4.5.4.7 When the spirit souls . . . become averse to the Lord

5. GENERAL CONCLUSION

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 1. INTRODUCTION

1.1 THE QUESTIONS

1. Were the conditioned souls now in this material world originally engaged in a direct and developed
relationship of devotional service with Krsna in a spiritual planet in the spiritual world, and if so how
could they fall from such a perfect relationship?

2. If the conditioned souls now in this material world were not originally engaged in a direct and
developed relationship of devotional service with Krsna in a spiritual planet in the spiritual world, then
where did they come from?

1.2 THE ANSWERS

Here are the main answers that have been proposed to the jiva question:

1. Yes, the conditioned souls now in this material world were originally engaged in a direct and developed
relationship of devotional service to Krsna in a spiritual planet in the spiritual world. They fell from that
position by misuse of free will, and by properly using free will they can regain their original position.

2. The conditioned souls now in this material world were originally situated in the brahmajyoti, and they
have eternally turned away from Krsna. Falling from the brahmajyoti to this material world, they get a
chance to develop their relationship with Krsna, which exists in them in seed form.

3. The conditioned souls in this material world were always here, always conditioned.

4. The conditioned souls in this material world originally emerged from the Viraja River, at which time
some chose Krsna and others chose Maya.

5. The conditioned souls in this material world were originally with Krsna in a spiritual planet, but not in a
fully developed relationship of service.

At times, Srila Prabhupada said the question of the origin of the jiva is not as important as trying to go
back to Godhead. Nevertheless, he always answered the question. However, it is not the origin of the
jiva itself that is so important here but the larger issues of how Srila Prabhupadas teachings are to
be understood and applied and how the teachings of the previous acaryas (and current acaryas
outside ISKCON) are to be approached. These larger issues have an importance that goes far beyond
the jiva question. They also have relevance to many other important philosophical and practical questions
facing ISKCON, such as the establishment of varnasrama, the practice of raganuga-sadhana, etc. If we
accept the views of some advocates, or allow them to spread unchecked, this will set a precedent in
ISKCON for interpreting thousands of Srila Prabhupadas statements in a way that was not directly done
by Srila Prabhupada himself.

1.3 HOW SHOULD WE ARRIVE AT AN ANSWER?

Any philosophically inclined devotee with good writing ability, logical skills, and a broad acquaintance
with the books, letters, and conversations of Srila Prabhupada, as well as the works of the previous
acaryas, can put together a convincing (to some) case for any of the 5 answers to the origin of the jiva
question. Practically speaking, we have seen this to be true. And it is this situation that has caused some
confusion among devotees. The statements of Srila Prabhupada, the Vedic scriptures, and the previous
acaryas seem to provide ample materials for the advocates of all the above mentioned views.
But perhaps there is a way out. The above state of affairs may be Krsnas way of instructing us about the
meaning of this famous text from the Mahabharata:

tarkos pratisthah srutayo vibhinna

nasav rsir yasya matir na bhinnam
dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam
mahajano yena gatah sa panthah

Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not differ from
others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated,
one cannot come to the right path by which religious principles are understood. The solid
truth of religious principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated self-realized person.
Consequently, as the sastras confirm, one should accept whatever progressive path the
mahajanas advocate.

Given that argument and reason can lead to different conclusions, that the sastras and sayings of the
previous acaryas contain many apparent contradictions, the safest thing is to follow the statements of an
unadulterated self-realized person. I would suggest that for members of ISKCON this person is Srila
Prabhupada. The previous acaryas may also have a role to play, but Srila Prabhupada said in a Srimad-
Bhagavatam lecture given in Los Angeles on December 8, 1973:

You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you
cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system.
You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acarya, immediate
next acarya.

This would mean that in answering any difficult question, where there are apparent contradictions that
cannot be easily resolved, our primary resource should be the words of Srila Prabhupadaour
immediate next acarya. We should not immediately go to the previous acaryas and various Vedic
texts to resolve the contradictions. Sastra undoubtedly has an important role, but our approach to it
should be through Srila Prabhupada. If we were capable of independently absorbing sastra, why did Srila
Prabhupada write purports to all of his translations? So the first resource should be Srila Prabhupadas
words.
But what if Srila Prabhupadas words appear to be contradictory? We have seen in practice that different
devotees with good writing abilities, some familiarity with logic, and broad acquaintance with Srila
Prabhupadas teachings can competently produce statements in support of contradictory conclusions,
even if they use only Srila Prabhupadas teachings. Everyone claims to have Prabhupada on their side
of the question.
So what can be done? I propose that we have to look carefully at the kind of statements from Srila
Prabhupada being presented by different advocates. If we can see that some statements made by Srila
Prabhupada have greater weight than others, then perhaps it will be possible to say that one advocate
has presented a more conclusive statement of Srila Prabhupadas views on a controversial topic than
another.
The strongest statements by Srila Prabhupada are, I propose, those that directly deal with the
specific question under consideration. Since the specific question here is the original situation of the
conditioned soul now in the material world, the best statements by Srila Prabhupada are those that
directly refer to conditioned souls in the material world and how they got there.
Statements about souls in Vaikuntha would have less value in this connection (unless they also directly
address the specific issue of the conditioned souls in this material world). One may connect statements
about souls in Vaikuntha with the question of the origin of the conditioned souls in this material world,
but it takes a step of logic by the advocate to do this. The step of logic may appear obvious. But there are
many ways for a logician to make a mistake, especially in matters that lie far beyond the range of our
mind and senses. So I propose that more weight has to be given to statements by Srila Prabhupada that
directly address the origin of the conditioned souls now in this material world. Such strong statements do
not require any steps of fallible logic to connect them with the exact question under consideration.
And among such strong statements, answers given to direct questions, especially those that seek
the resolution of specific contradictions, must be given more weight. In Vedic knowledge, the
question is typically used for clarification of difficult points. The statements may be there, but the answers
to the questions about these statements bring out the real meaning in a clearer way. That is why most of
the Vedic texts are in the form of questions and answers.
For example, in some statements Srila Prabhupada says no one falls from Vaikuntha. But he has also
said that the spirit soul in this material world is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. The statements
appear contradictory. But in a lecture, Srila Prabhupada once said:

Sometimes it appears to the student contradictory. But actually, the master who is well
conversant, he does not say anything contradictory. It is the misunderstanding of the
student that sometimes he thinks that it is contradictory. Therefore the question is allowed.
Youll find that a student is advised to question to the spiritual master. [Lecture on
Bhagavad-gita 3.1-5, Los Angeles, December 20, 1968]

Srila Prabhupada, being well conversant, cannot therefore be presenting contradictory information. If
there seems to be a contradiction in his statements, it is only in the mind of the student. To clear up the
apparent contradiction, the student should inquire. And he should accept the gurus conclusion.
So lets suppose a disciple of Srila Prabhupada has presented Srila Prabhupada a question about the
apparent contradiction between statements about falling and not falling from Vaikuntha. And let us then
suppose that Srila Prabhupada gives an answer that affirms one of these two views and explains the other
view in terms of that view. At that point, we would have to admit that the controversy has been resolved.
We cannot go back to other statements by Srila Prabhupada and try to raise the same contradiction again.
We should accept the resolution given by Srila Prabhupada. In this paper, I will show that Srila
Prabhupadas disciples did in fact repeatedly put questions to Srila Prabhupada concerning his apparently
contradictory statements about the origin of the jiva. I will also show that Srila Prabhupada repeatedly
and consistently resolved the contradictions in favor of the position that the souls in this material world
can and did fall from Vaikuntha planets. He also gave clear explanations of how the no fall statements
can be understood in that light. For example, he said that we do not really fall from Vaikuntha, but Krsna
creates a situation where we think we have fallen. So the general principle is that questions put to Srila
Prabhupada about his apparently contradictory statements and the answers that Srila
Prabhupada gave to those questions have to be given special weight as we attempt to resolve the
same contradictions.
Finally, among direct answers to specific questions, those given by Srila Prabhupada in order to
resolve controversies that have arisen in the general society of ISKCON devotees must be given the
most weight. Among conclusive statements, they are the strongest of the strong. They are a direct guide
in resolving the same controversy when it arises again.
Now if it happens that Srila Prabhupada gives apparently contradictory answers to the same question,
then we may have a problem. But if the question was always answered in the same way, then the problem
is solved. We should simply answer the question the way Srila Prabhupada answered it. We dont
have to strain our brains trying to come up with a conclusion about the inconceivable. All we have
to do is repeat the answer that Srila Prabhupada gave to the question. With the answer given by
Srila Prabhupada firmly in mind, one can then enter into the statements of the sastras and previous
acaryas with some degree of confidence that one will be able to resolve apparent contradictions in their
statements in the proper way. And if some contradictions cannot be resolved in favor of the answer given
by Srila Prabhupada, these can be put into the category of differences among the acaryas. We accept
Srila Prabhupadas version and conclude that in truth the other bona fide Vaisnava acarya must be saying
the same thing, but in a way that we are not yet able to understand. I am proposing this procedure as a
general method for approaching the resolution of controversial philosophical questions.
If an answer to a controversial question includes several elements, then it is also helpful if an advocate
can point to statements by Srila Prabhupada that contain all the elements of the answer. An answer that
puts together various statements from Srila Prabhupada in a way that Srila Prabhupada never put
them together himself is weaker than an answer that puts together elements in the same way that
Srila Prabhupada did. For example, there are many statements by Srila Prabhupada in which he gives
the whole story of the souls original position as a servant of Krsna in the spiritual world, his misuse of
free will, his fall into the material world, and his return back to his original position. The following letter
to Umapati Dasa, dated March 30, 1970, provides one example:

You have written to say that French people are eager to understand Vaisnava philosophy,
and the summary of Vaisnava philosophy is as follows: God is a person like us, but He is
all-powerful with all opulences in full. The living entities are His eternal servants. There
are varieties of living entities that have inherited the opulences of God in different degrees.
There are two kinds of nature, the spiritual nature and the material nature. The living
entities belong to the spiritual nature and being part and parcel of God they have all the
qualities of God in minute proportion. There are innumerable living entities both in the
spiritual world and in the material world. The spiritual world is far, far greater than the
material world. As such, the number of living entities living in the spiritual world is many
more times greater than the number of living entities living within the material world. The
living entities, when they try to lord it over the Gods property, forgetting their
constitutional position to remain as eternal servant of God, they are given the
material world to act according to their desires. In such endless varieties of desires the
living entities are seen in varieties of bodies beginning from Brahma, down to the most
insignificant insect. In this way, when someone is fortunate, he, by the grace of Spiritual
Master and Krsna, revives his Krsna Consciousness. And if he makes progress under the
direction of the Spiritual Master, then he revives his original Krsna Consciousness in
full and thus he regains his position in the eternal Kingdom of God. So you know
very well all these facts, and while preaching you have to explain all these things nicely.
Then you become a good preacher. Now you try your best in this line of preaching work
and be successful as you have taken birth as a human being. Our Vaisnava philosophy is in
summary the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. You read them very carefully, word to word,
and immediately begin translation into French language so they may be published in
French BTG as well as in future they may be published in a book.

Here we find all the elements of this account put together in one complete summary statement by Srila
Prabhupada himself. On the other hand, presentations of the brahmajyoti idea involve advocates putting
together various unrelated statements by Srila Prabhupada. Nowhere, to my knowledge, does Srila
Prabhupada put these pieces together himself in a clear, explicit statement of the jivas origin in the
brahmajyoti, fall, and liberation. In fact, he directly rejects this idea.
Also, Srila Prabhupada made a big point of using the common, dictionary meanings of words. One of his
main preaching points was to argue against the impersonalists giving up the direct dictionary definitions
of the words of the Vedic scriptures. An answer that takes Srila Prabhupadas words according to
their direct, commonly understood meaning would be stronger than one that relies on indirect or
hidden meanings.
To summarize. In attempting to answer a controversial philosophical question, we should first
consider the words of Srila Prabhupada. Among these the best are, in order of most importance:
(1) Srila Prabhupadas direct answers to the same question, given for the specific purpose of
resolving it for the Society. (2) Srila Prabhupadas direct answers to specific questions raised by his
individual disciples in order to clarify apparent contradictions they saw in connection with these
questions. (3) Statements by Srila Prabhupada (other than answers to questions) that directly and
specifically deal with the exact topic under consideration. Only if questions cannot be resolved on
the basis of these three kinds of evidence should we proceed with utmost caution to arrive at a
conclusion not specifically given by Srila Prabhupada, but derived from careful study of his
teachings in light of the Vedic literatures and writings of the previous acaryas.

2.TEACHINGS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA

2.1 HAS SRILA PRABHUPADA ALREADY ANSWERED

THE QUESTION OF THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA?

Srila Prabhupada has already answered the questions about the origin of the jiva. These answers can be
found in all three of the above mentioned strong categories of evidence. The answer found therein is that
the conditioned souls in this material world were originally in a direct and developed relationship of
devotional service to Krsna in a spiritual planet in the spiritual world. By misuse of independence,
manifesting as a desire to imitate Krsna or take His position as supreme enjoyer, the soul gave up its
natural state and was placed in the material world. By proper use of free will one can take up the process
of Krsna consciousness and regain ones original position. Srila Prabhupada also directly rejects the ideas
that we were originally situated in the brahmajyoti or that we were always existing as conditioned souls
in this material world. Srila Prabhupada has never said we were originally from the Viraja River. Nor does
he say that our original condition was fundamentally different from our final condition on going back to
Godhead. Below I will give examples supporting these statements from the above-mentioned three strong
categories of evidence. But first I will outline a proposed resolution to this controversy.

2.2 A PROPOSED SOLUTION TO THE CONTROVERSY

My solution is based on the following conclusions and proposals:

1. The origin of the souls now in this material world is undoubtedly a question beyond the range of our
direct perception. We can therefore answer this question only by repeating the answer that Srila
Prabhupada repeatedly gave when asked the same question. We were once in a direct and developed
relationship of service to Krsna in a spiritual planet in the spiritual world. By misuse of independence we
desired to imitate Krsna or take His position. Therefore we have been placed in the material world. But
by becoming Krsna conscious we can regain our original position. No other view shall be presented as
conclusive in any ISKCON media (print, video, electronic), classes, seminars, etc.

2. Srila Prabhupada directly rejected the idea that we are from the brahmajyoti.
3. In resolving philosophical controversies, the teachings, instructions, and personal example of Srila
Prabhupada are the first and primary resource. If a conclusion, recognized by the GBC, can be drawn
from careful study of this resource, it shall guide further research into the Vedic literature, the writings of
previous acaryas, and the teachings of current bona fide Vaisnava acaryas outside ISKCON. Everything
that can be harmonized to the conclusion arrived at from Srila Prabhupadas teachings shall be accepted.
Any contradictions that cannot be resolved shall be placed in the category of differences among the
acaryas. But ISKCON members shall follow the conclusion of Srila Prabhupada when there is such a
difference.

Regarding the jiva question, the practical application would be as follows. If a devotee sincerely and
submissively inquires about the origin of the jiva, he should be given a brief answer as outlined above and
be told that it is better to busy oneself in going back to Godhead than to worry extensively about such
questions. If someone is persistent, they can be directed to publications prepared by devotees who have
accepted the conclusions mentioned above (such as this one). Those who cannot accept these conclusions
would be free to petition the GBC to change them. Reasonable research and private discussion that do
not constitute a disturbance would not be forbidden. But until the GBC resolutions accepting the above
conclusions change, no contradictory conclusion could be presented in official ISKCON publications,
courses, seminars, etc. It would be up to the GBC to decide whether or not any research and private
discussion are reasonable.

2.3 THE STRONGEST EVIDENCE:

SRILA PRABHUPADAS DIRECT RESOLUTION
OF A CONTROVERSY IN ISKCON

2.3.1 Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila

In 1972, a devotee in Australia began saying that the living entities in this material world were originally
situated in the brahmajyoti. According to Madhudvisa Prabhu and Caru Prabhu, who were both in
Australia at the time, this caused some fairly widespread disturbance. Srila Prabhupada therefore dictated
a response, a typed copy of which was retained by Madhudvisa Prabhu. This is the famous crow and tal
fruit message. Madhudvisa has said that it was distributed to the Australian temple presidents. In this
statement, given in direct response to inquiries from his students on the question of the origin of the jiva,
Srila Prabhupada gives many definitive answers to the questions facing us. He intended these not just as
answers to a particular devotee but as his official answer to a philosophical controversy that had arisen in
the Society:

We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man
is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms:
now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject
matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the seen disappears. But the
seer remains. Now he is in his original position.
Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with
other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna
desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and
creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach,
sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position
is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as
we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.
The jiva is originally with Krsna. But even with Krsna there is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna
and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Srila Prabhupada sets up a very strong identity
between the original state and the final state of liberation. He says we are just like a man dreaming. The
man forgets himself. He creates a dream identity. And when he wakes from that dream identity, he is once
more in his original position. There are two states. The free state and the covered state. The free state is
with Krsna. There is no suggestion that the original state is fallen. There is also no suggestion of an
original free state that is different from the final free state.

We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord,
immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila, or
sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration,
therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is
sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes
very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. Just like in a
dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch
and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krsnas friends, they were kept asleep for
one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they
considered that only a moment had passed.

The idea that we were always conditioned is directly rejected. Srila Prabhupada says, Formerly we were
with Krsna in His lila, or sport.

So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream.
Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna
consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya.
They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They
were given mukti, merging into the Brahmasayujya after being killed three times as
demons. This Brahmasayujya mukti is non-permanent. Every living entity wants pleasure,
but Brahmasayujya is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not
find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss. Just
like Vivekananda founded so many schools and hospitals. So even Lord Brahma, he is still
material and wants to lord it over. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may
rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the
position.
So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of
Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only to
Brahmasayujya but falls down. But after millions and millions of years of keeping
oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this
period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.

Here Srila Prabhupada directly compares the history of the souls in this material world with the history of
Jaya and Vijaya. He speaks of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord.

Because he falls down from Brahmasayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he
does not remember that before that even he was with Krsna. So the conclusion is that
whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join
Krsna. Just like with a diseased man, it is a waste of time to try to find out how he has
become diseased; better to spend time curing the disease.
Here Srila Prabhupada directly rejects the idea that the conditioned soul was originally in the
brahmajyoti. Srila Prabhupada then recommends that we not waste time with the question of our origin.
But note that he first gave clear answers to the question. We should follow the same policy. Answer the
question as above, and then suggest we not waste further time with it.

On the top of the tree there is a nice tal-fruit. A crow went there and the fruit fell down.
Some panditas, big big learned scholars, saw this and discussed: the fruit fell due to the
crow agitating the limb. No, the fruit fell simultaneously with the crow landing and
frightened the crow so he flew away. No, the fruit was ripe and the weight of the crow
landing broke it from the branch, and so on and so on. What is the use of such
discussions? So whether you were in the Brahmasayujya or with Krsna in His lila, at the
moment you are in neither, so the best policy is to develop your Krsna consciousness and
go there, never mind what is your origin.
Brahmasayujya and Krsna lilaboth may be possible, but when you are coming down
from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a
mystery. But at the present moment we are in Mayas clutches, so at present our only hope
is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead. The real position is
servant of Krsna, and servant of Krsna means in Krsna lila. Directly or indirectly, always
we are serving Krsnas lila. Even in dream. Just like we cannot go out of the sun when it
is daytime, so where is the chance of going out of Krsna lila? The cloud may be there, it
may become very gray and dim, but still the sunlight is there, everywhere, during the
daytime. Because I am part and parcel of Krsna, I am always connected. My finger, even
though it may be diseased, remains part and parcel of my body. Therefore, we try to treat
it, cure it, because it is part and parcel. So Krsna comes Himself when we forget Him, or
He sends His representative.

What about the statement Brahmasayujya and Krsna lilaboth may be possible, but when you are
coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a
mystery. Is Srila Prabhupada taking away everything he has said up to this point, and leaving the matter
once more in confusion? Does he mean that we really could originally be from the brahmajyoti? No. This
statement has to be considered in light of what has come before, in such a way that all the statements
remain true. Srila Prabhupada has made two points absolutely clear. First, the original position of the soul
is with Krsna in His lila, or sport. Second, the souls are not originally from the brahmajyoti, but
impersonalists in this material world, themselves fallen from their original position in Krsnas pastimes,
may enter and fall down from the brahmajyoti many times during the course of successive creations of
the universe. Therefore, for any particular soul it may be said that we do not know if it is coming, during
this particular creation, from Krsnas eternal lila or from the brahmajyoti. Taken in this way, all the
statements remain true in a consistent way. Of course, we know from other statements by Srila
Prabhupada, quoted elsewhere in this paper, that the jiva is not from the brahmajyoti and was originally
with Krsna in His spiritual abode. At the very end, Srila Prabhupada puts things in clear perspective when
he says that we are always part and parcel of Krsna, just as a finger is always part of the body although it
may be diseased. So in the same way we are always in touch with Krsna, either in his eternal lila or his
lila of manifesting this material creation.

Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see
Krsna. Cause and effect are both Krsna. Just like cotton becomes thread and thread
becomes cloth, still, the original cause is cotton. Therefore, everything is Krsna in the
ultimate sense. When we cannot contact Krsna personally, we contact His energies. So
there is no chance to be outside Krsnas lila. But differences we see under different
conditions. Just like in the pool of water and in the mirror the same me is reflecting, but in
 different reflections. One is shimmering, unsteady, one is clear and fixed. Except for being
in Krsna consciousness, we cannot see our actual position rightly; therefore the learned
man sees all living entities as the same parts and parcels of Krsna. Material existence is
impersonal because my real personality is covered. But we should think that because I am
now covered by this clay, I am diseased, and we should think that I must get to business to
get myself uncovered, not wonder how I got this way. Now the fruit is there, take it and
enjoy, that is your first business. God is not bound by cause. He can change, He is the
Cause of all Causes. Now dont waste your time with this Kaka taliya nyaya, crows and
tal-fruit logic.

What about this statement: When we cannot contact Krsna personally, we contact His energies. So there
is no chance to be outside Krsnas lila? I have heard some say that when Srila Prabhupada earlier said
that we were originally with Krsna in His lila, or sport, this might just mean that we were in contact with
one of Krsnas energiesmaya or the brahmajyoti. In other words, it doesnt mean we were with Krsna
personally. But this interpretation is not supported by the text. Srila Prabhupada compares the history of
the conditioned soul directly with the history of Jaya and Vijaya. This clearly indicates a direct personal
relationship, and not some other kind of lila. Srila Prabhupada also has directly stated in this text that we
were not originally in the brahmajyoti. And in the first part of the text he said: We cannot say therefore
that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya.
Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila, or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very,
very long duration. So when Srila Prabhupada said we were in Krsnas lila, he meant before we were
covered by the material energy, maya. In this context, the only allowable reading of lila is Krsnas
pastimes as we commonly understand them from the Tenth Canto of the Bhagavatam. But when we come
to the material world, we remain in Krsnas lila in the sense of being in contact with Krsnas energies.
So in this famous crow and tal fruit message, which was given by Srila Prabhupada in order to resolve the
same controversy that faces us today, Srila Prabhupada makes the following points about the conditioned
souls:

1. We were originally with Krsna in His lila, or sport.

2. We are not originally from the brahmajyoti.
3. By comparing the situation of the conditioned souls with that of Jaya and Vijaya, Srila Prabhupada
indicates that the original relationship was one of active service in a spiritual planet.
4. There is no mention of an origin in the Viraja River.
5. We are not eternally conditioned, in the sense of being always in the material word and never having
been with Krsna in the spiritual world.

On the basis of this statement alone, we can confidently answer the questions raised at the beginning of
this paper. Yes, we were originally with Krsna. No, we are not from the brahmajyoti. No, we are not
eternally conditioned. No, we are not originally from the Viraja River. No, our relationship with Krsna
was not undeveloped. The reason that we can answer the questions so confidently in this way is that the
crow and tal fruit message was given by Srila Prabhupada in direct answer to the same controversy that
faces us today. In this message, Srila Prabhupada also offers adjustments to other statements that appear
contradictory. To the impersonalists it appears that they are from the brahmajyoti because in any
particular creation they may indeed be coming down from there. But before that they were with Krsna. It
is sometimes said we are eternally conditioned, but that is only because we cannot trace out the exact
moment when we departed from Krsnas lila. By comparing the state of the conditioned soul to a
dreaming man, Srila Prabhupada implicitly gives an adjustment of the no one falls from Vaikuntha
statements. The dreaming man simply thinks he has gone somewhere else. The conditioned soul may think
he has left Krsnas lila, but actually he is still in touch with Krsna. In the same way, we are never out of
Vaikuntha, but we are just dreaming that we are somewhere else. In other statements, Srila Prabhupada
expresses this more explicitly. As we shall see, this view is also in harmony with the statements of the
previous acaryas as well as the Srimad-Bhagavatam, which Jiva Goswami calls the topmost Vedic
authority.

2.4 SRILA PRABHUPADAS DIRECT ANSWERS

TO DIRECT QUESTIONS

2.4.1 Introduction

The conclusions outlined above find additional support in Srila Prabhupadas direct answers to questions
about the origin of the jiva. These questions were put to Srila Prabhupada by disciples and followers in
classes and letters. Sometimes Srila Prabhupada rhetorically raised them in his own classes. Specific
answers given to specific questions, especially those that refer to the classic apparent contradictions in the
jiva question, assume great importance for us as we attempt to arrive at an answer to the present
controversy. The safest thing to do is to answer the questions the way Srila Prabhupada answered them.

2.4.2 Actually he has not fallen

The Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture (text 2.9.1) given by Srila Prabhupada on April 20, 1972, in Tokyo,
Japan, is one of the most important statements given by Srila Prabhupada on the origin of the jiva. I
regard the crow and tal fruit message as having more weight, because it was given as a direct resolution
to a controversy that had arisen in the Society. But the following excerpts from the Tokyo lecture are
also quite striking in that they provide a way to resolve the statements by Srila Prabhupada that
no one falls from Vaikuntha. To put it briefly, Srila Prabhupada says that we were originally
with Krsna and are now in a situation where we think we have fallen. In this way, we can accept the
literal meaning of Srila Prabhupadas very numerous statements that we do fall from the spiritual world
and we can adjust the relatively few no fall statements in terms of a solution that Srila Prabhupada
himself directly offers. We have not actually fallen, but we think we are fallen. Taking the opposite
approach, we can, as some advocates suggest, take the no fall statements as literally true and adjust the
fall statements in a way not directly offered by Srila Prabhupada (i.e., they are a preaching strategy).
In other words, we were never in the spiritual world with Krsna, but Srila Prabhupada sometimes said we
were as a preaching strategy. The following lecture excerpts demonstrate that it would not be wise for us
to follow this latter approach when Srila Prabhupada has taken another approach to the same problem
we were in Vaikuntha and we just think we are fallen.

Karandhara: Translation: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced
by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the
relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the
dreamer seeing his own body working.
Prabhupada: So, purport?
Karandhara: Purport. The question of Maharaja Pariksit is perfectly answered as to
how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and
the mind.
Prabhupada: It is a very important question. Pariksit Maharaja inquired... Many people
inquired that How the living entity was with Krsna, he became fallen in this material
world? Is not done? This question is raised? So this question is answered here, that How
the living entity who was with Krsna became fallen down in contact with this material
qualities? So this is the answer. Read the translation.
So here Srila Prabhupada is himself directly raising one of the specific questions that confront us today. It
is clear that he accepts the premise of the question, namely that we actually were with Krsna in the
spiritual world. The question is not whether or not we were with Krsna. Srila Prabhupada is accepting
that. The question is why we left Krsna.

Karandhara: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the
energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead...
Prabhupada: It is simply the influence of the material energy, nothing. Actually he has
not fallen. Another example given is given. Just like the moon is covered with scattered
cloud, the passing cloud. You have seen. Everyone has experience. The cloud passes, and
it appears that the moon is moving. Have you seen this?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: Actually the moon is not moving. It is a maya, illusion. It appears that the
moon is moving. But similarly, the living entity, because he is spiritual spark of the
Supreme, it has not fallen. It has not fallen. But he is thinking, I am fallen. I am
material. That is the reason....Try to understand. Have questions and answer. It is very
important thing. Atma-maya rte rajan. Except atma-maya, the illusory energy... It is the
maneuver or handling of the illusory energy of Krsna. This illusory energy develops when
we forget Krsna. Thats all. It is... In other words, this illusory identification of me with the
body is simply due to my forgetfulness. We wanted to forget, we wanted to give up Krsna
and wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore Krsna is giving us.

So here Srila Prabhupada offers a way we can understand the few statements that he makes that no one
falls from Vaikuntha. We really do not fall. We think we are fallen. But this just means we have forgotten
our original situation. In our original situation we were with Krsna. Srila Prabhupada says we wanted to
give up Krsna. There is no mention of originally being in the brahmajyoti, or the Viraja River, or being
always conditioned, or being in anything less than a fully developed relationship with Krsna. Srila
Prabhupada repeats these points throughout the lecture, as can be seen from the following excerpts.

Prabhupada: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. The very exact example is given, svapna-drastuh.

Just like a man seeing dream: Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me! He is crying.
Another man is, Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger? But he, in the
dream, he is actually feeling: The tiger has attacked me. Therefore this example is given,
na ghatetartha-sambandhah. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like
a man dreaming and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is
creating a situation, fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger.
That situation is created by dream. Actually there is no tiger. Similarly, we have created
this material world and activity. People are running, Oh..., sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh,
sonh, sonh, identifying that Oh, I am the manager. I am the factory owner. I am this, I
am that. We have got his politics. We have to defeat such competitors. All these things
are created exactly like that, svapna drastur ivanjasa, just like a man is creating his
particular situation simply by dream. Thats all. So the answer is, when somebody asks you
that When one has become in contact with this material nature? He has not become in
contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy. Just like the same example:
A man is dreaming; there is no contact with tiger. Actually he has no contact with that.
Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a
situation that we are, become... Try to understand, understand. It is very important
point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krsna
has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an
 opportunity: All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like
this. Play like this. Do like this. People will applaud. Oh, a very nice king, very nice.

. . .

So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen.
Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna
consciousness. As soon as we understand that I have nothing to do with I am simply
Krsnas servant, eternal servant, thats all, immediately he becomes liberated. Exactly like
that: as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too
much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream when it becomes intolerable.
Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the
point of Krsna conscious. Oh, Krsna is my eternal master. I am His servant. Thats all.
This is the way. Actually we are not fallen. There cannot be any fallen. The same example:
Actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming.
We are not fallen. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At
any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge
quickly.

. . .

But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen, It was
illusion, I was dreaming, I am Krsnas finished. All gone. I am Krsnas. I am
Krsnas eternal servant. These are all nonsensehe immediately becomes liberated.
Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a
second, provided we abide by the order of Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam
saranam vraja. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we
have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. There is no... Is there any
difficulty to understand? Just see how important this verse. It is already there, but you
are not reading. Each verse, read every day carefully. Try to assimilate, understand, and
you will get more profit, every day, hundred yards forward, hundred yards forward, yes.
They are so important verses. How nicely composed by Vyasadeva. In two lines the
whole thing is explained. This is called sastra. In two lines. Then read the purport.

Notice that Srila Prabhupada is calling this a very important verse, and he is repeating again and again his
explanation and also calling it very important for the devotees to understand. He is raising the questions
that confront us and answering them point by point. He is also offering a way to understand the
statements that no one falls. Statements like these by Srila Prabhupada are addressed directly to the
specific questions that confront us. They address these questions in a sustained way. Such direct, detailed,
and comprehensive statements are worthy of more emphasis than isolated brief statements pulled from
here and there, with no direct sign from Srila Prabhupada that they relate to the exact questions before us.

Karandhara [reads purport]: The external energy is controlled by the Lord, and the living
entities are controlled by the external energyby the will of the Lord. Therefore, although
the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the
Lord, being influenced by the external energy of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita also the
same thing is confirmed, that the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity and
all consciousness and forgetfulness of the living entity are influenced by the Lord.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because... Now, people may say that, Why Krsna within the heart
gives one type of consciousness to one, and another type of consciousness...? Because I
 wanted. I wanted to forget Krsna, so Krsna is giving consciousness: All right, you
can forget Me in this way. That is His kindness. Just like the Mayavadis, the so-called
yogis and karmis, they wanted to forget. Krsna is giving him intelligence. All right. You
forget Me like this. Thats all. Go on. And if you want to again revive your
relationship, Krsna will give you intelligence. Buddhi yogam dadami tam yena mam
upayanti te: I shall give intelligence. So Krsna is... Ye yatha mam prapadyante. As you
want, Krsna gives you facility.
Karandhara [continues reading purport]: The living entities are illusioned by the will of
the Lord because they wanted to become like Him.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: As a person thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary
qualifications, similarly, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is
put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the
living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the
living entity forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of utopia where he
may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother, and
the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the
shadow of the moon. Similarly, the crying child of the Lord is given over to the shadow of
the material world to lord it over as a karmi and to give this up in frustration to become
one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of
tracing out the history when the living entity desired this, but the fact is that as soon as he
desired such, he was put under the control of atma-maya by the direction of the Lord.
Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is mine
and this is I. The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as I or
falsely thinks that he is the lord and that everything in connection with the material body is
mine. Thus in dream only the misconception of I and mine persist life after life. This
continues life after life as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as
the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is
no such misconceived dream. And in that pure conscious state the living entity does not
forget that he is never the Lord, but he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in
transcendental love.

. . .

Trivikrama: Srila Prabhupada? You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this
is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read ...
Prabhupada: The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am
thinking, Oh, tiger is there. It is simply dreaming condition.
Trivikrama: But so many Vaisnavas are praying...
Prabhupada: So as soon as you understand that This is not... I am not in contact with
tiger, it is all a dream, then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand All
this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,
then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that
I am eternal servant of Krsna, then you are liberated. . . .
Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...
Prabhupada: That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got
some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep
yourself tightly in Krsnas service, there is no question of falling down or there is no
question of maya. You see?
In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna
in the spiritual world. But when we want to take Krsnas position, Krsna puts us into a dreaming state. In
this dreaming state we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the
supreme enjoyer. This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is sometimes characterized as being fallen
from our position in the spiritual world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We
are simply in a dreaming state. Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the
devotees to carefully consider it. This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the
statements that no one falls from Vaikuntha. We do not fall. We simply forget our original relationship
of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported
by Srila Prabhupadas purport to the text under consideration. Therein he says: Therefore the first sinful
will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity
forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. It is
clear that the living entity is first situated in his actual life. In that life he is properly using his free will.
Then comes the first sinful will of the living entity. This is to become the Lord. At that point the Lord
arranges things so that the living entity forgets his actual life. There is no support here for the idea that
our original position is as eternally fallen beings in the brahmajyoti, the Viraja River, or the material
world. Neither is there any hint that our original position in the spiritual world is any different from our
position after going back to Godhead. We were originally with Krsna, but we have forgotten that. In that
state of forgetfulness we think we have fallen, but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up,
and we will be in our original position. The dream situation and our dream identity will then disappear
and we will find ourselves in our natural position, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own
bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the
way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really falling from
Vaikuntha. Srila Prabhupada started his lecture by directly referring to the question of how the
living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna. He gives a thorough
answer to this question. We should follow in his footsteps by giving the same answer. Others may try
to put together an alternative view, by taking isolated statements from here and there and putting them
together in inventive ways, but this cannot compare to the kind of systematic, comprehensive, self-
contained statements made here by Srila Prabhupada in direct answer to the specific questions
confronting us.

2.4.3 So actually we are always in the spiritual world

In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971, Srila Prabhupada makes the same
point he made in the above-quoted Tokyo lecture. No one really falls from Vaikuntha. We are always in
the spiritual world. We just think we are somewhere else.

Kulasekhara: Could you explain a little bit about the position in which we were situated
in the spiritual sky before coming to the material world?
Devotee: What position did we occupy in the spiritual sky before we fell into the material
world?
Prabhupada: You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like
the sun is already there. You are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your
checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly... The sky is one, when it is clouded or not
clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krsna
by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. There is allotted(?)... When the
sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different
sky. You are in the same sky. When the cloud is clear, you are in the same sky. But the
difference of position is due to the cloud. That is called maya. When you forget Krsna, that
 is material. And as soon as you become Krsna conscious, that is spiritual. Just like here,
this temple is not in London. It is Vaikuntha.
Devotees: Haribol!
Prabhupada: Because here everyone is Krsna conscious. They havent forgotten
Krsna. Therefore they are in Vaikuntha. Others may see that Oh, you are in
London. How you are in Vaikuntha? Just like Krsna, in the Bhagavad-gita is said,
isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese rjuna tisthati. God is situated in everyones heart. So
everyones heart means He is in the heart of the hog also. But if the hog is within the stool
that does not mean Krsna is also within the stool. Similarly, the devotees although they are
in London or New York, theyre in Vaikuntha. That is to be realized when one is in Krsna
consciousness. Yatra tisthanti mad bhakta tatra tisthami narada. Krsna says, I live there
where My devotees are there. So Krsna can be everywhere where there is devotee. So
this material world, spiritual world means when you forget Krsna, that is material. When
you are Krsna conscious, that is spiritual. Thats all. You may remain in the same place.
Because everything is Krsnasisavasyam idam sarvamso how you can distinguish
what is material, what is spiritual? If every, every part of the creation belongs to Krsna,
you cannot practically distinguish This portion is spiritual, this portion is material. That
distinction is due to our forgetfulness. So as soon as you come to Krsna consciousness
you will find everything spiritual.
Guest (5): If one realizes the impersonal Brahman, what progress can be made here from
this?(?)
Prabhupada: So if you realize impersonal Brahman, there is chance of falling down again
to the material conception. Because you are person, you cannot remain in impersonal
stage. Therefore to elevate, to be elevated in the impersonal stage means there is chance of
falling down again. But if you elevate yourself to the personal conception of the Absolute
Truth, there is no falldown. Of course, because we are marginal potency of Krsna,
there is possibility of falldown always. But those who are strong in Krsna
consciousness, they do not fall. Thats all right.

2.4.4 In this world or spiritual world,

he has got the potency of coming down

The following exchange took place during a lecture delivered in Atlanta on March 2, 1975. The question
is based on an assumption that we fell from the spiritual world in the first place. So if we get back our
position, what will keep us from falling again? The devotee is apparently contemplating a contradiction
between Krsnas statement in the Bhagavad-gita that if one goes back to His abode one will not fall
down again. But how do we understand that statement in light of the fact that we did in fact fall down
from there in the first place? That is the contradiction Srila Prabhupada is being asked to address. So let
us see how Srila Prabhupada answers it.

Devotee III: If one is fortunate enough to revive his natural position in the spiritual sky,
how can he keep from falling down again? ...
Prabhupada: How your Nixon is dragged down? How your president Nixon is dragged
down? He was in the exalted post, and why he was dragged down?
Devotee IV: They dragged him down.
Prabhupada: Yes. He was forced to come down. Why?
Tamal Krsna: He broke the rules.
Prabhupada: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of
coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become
 president, you are secure. If you are not perfect, then you will be dragged down. Or if you
think imperfectly... The formula is that in the spiritual world everyone is engaged in the
service of the Lord. There is no other conception as in this material world everyone is
engaged to serve his senses. He likes something, and he is engaged for that purpose. That
service is there, but it is service to himself, his senses. But in the spiritual world there is no
such thing as giving service to the senses. Simply giving service to the Lord. That is
spiritual world. So as soon as you think that Why shall I give service to Krsna? Why not
become independent? you fall down immediately. So there is potency of thinking like
that. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare, pasate maya tare japatiya dhare. As soon as
one forgets the service of the Lord and he wants to become himself Lord, immediately
maya will capture. This maya means this material world.

So it is clear that one can fall from the spiritual world if one misuses ones independence. Some have
suggested that although jivas could fall from the spiritual world, none do. But in a letter to Rayarama
(December 2, 1968), Srila Prabhupada directly says that there are instances where marginal energy jiva
souls have fallen from the spiritual world. And in a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture delivered on June 15,
1972, in Los Angeles, Srila Prabhupada says that the conditioned soul in this material world is fallen
already from Vaikuntha planet.

2.4.5 We may fall down from Vaikuntha

at any moment

In the following conversation, which took place on July 8, 1976, in Washington. D. C., a devotee raises
the principal question that troubles the mind of so many devotees today. If in our original position we
were perfectly situated, how is it that we fell? Other common questions are also raised and answered.

Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupada, you say in your books so many times that somehow or
other we have fallen into this material world due to our enviousness or our independence.
Prabhupada: Many, there are many reasons.
Devotee (4): I cant seem to get a grasp on this at all. If we in our original constitutional
position as part and parcel of Krsna, and in that position, that original position of full
knowledge and full bliss and being in our eternal nature...Now I have some experience of
how strong this material energy is and how maya works somewhat, but if I had known this
and had full knowledge, then I would have had this knowledge of how maya works and
how I might fall.
Prabhupada: You read the life of Jaya and Vijaya, Hiranyakasipu and Hiranyaksa? They
were Krsnas doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read the life of Hiranyakasipu
and Hiranyaksa?
Devotee (4): Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So how they did fall? They are from Vaikuntha. They are Krsnas personal
associates, keeping the doorkeepers. How did they fall down? Anyway, there is chance
of falling down at any moment.
Devotee (4): Well, in his family they wanted to enjoy the material world.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities,
we are not as powerful as Krsna, therefore we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any
moment. Iccha-dvesa samutthena sarge yanti parantapa. Find out this verse.

Pusta Krsna:
iccha-dvesa samutthena
 dvandva-mohena bharata
sarva-bhutani sammoham
sarge yanti parantapa

O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into
delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate.
Prabhupada: Purport.
Pusta Krsna: The real constitutional position of the living entity is that of subordination
to the Supreme Lord, who is pure knowledge. When one is deluded into separation
from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by illusory energy and cannot
understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The illusory energy is manifested in the
duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate the ignorant person wants to become
one with the Supreme Lord and envies Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. ...
Prabhupada: So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that Why shall I serve Krsna?
Why not become Krsna? I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is
serving the master, sometimes he may think that If I could become the master. They are
thinking like that, they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become
God. That is not possible. But hes wrongly thinking.
Vipina: Why doesnt Krsna protect us from that desire?
Prabhupada: Hes protecting. He says, You rascal, dont desire, surrender unto Me.
But you are rascal, you do not do this.
Vipina: Why doesnt He save me from thinking like that?
Prabhupada: That means you lose your independence.
Vipina: And no love.
Prabhupada: That is force. [indistinct] prema. In Bengal it is said If you catch one girl
or boy, You love me, you love me, you love me, is it love? [laughter]. You love me,
otherwise I will kill you. [laughter] Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a
lover like that, on the point of revolver, You love me, otherwise I shall kill you. That is
not love, that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then
that is love, not by force.

This conversation is conclusive on the main question before us. It also answers the question Can a soul
fall from Vaikuntha? The question can also be extended to Goloka Vrndavana, the highest planet in
Vaikuntha, because Srila Prabhupada is here constantly referring to Krsna and not Lord Narayana. The
answer is yes, we can fall from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana. Srila Prabhupada clearly says that we
may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment. He also says, So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that
Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna? I immediately fall down. After receiving this specific
answer, we can no longer go back to the more general statement no one falls from Vaikuntha and use it
to contradict the conclusion that Srila Prabhupada gives here to his inquiring student. The question has
been settled. This exchange also shows that Srila Prabhupada regarded the fall of Jaya and Vijaya, even
though arranged by the Lord, as analogous to the falldown of other living entities from Vaikuntha.
Some have proposed that Srila Prabhupadas answers, in cases like the above, are false statements, not
supported by scripture and other spiritual authorities. According to this erroneous theory, he deliberately
spoke these untruths to neophyte disciples because they were not ready to hear the real truth. But in this
paper I will also show that the view that we were once with Krsna is supported by the Srimad-
Bhagavatam and the previous acaryas.

2.4.6 The soul may fall down from any position

In a letter to Srila Prabhupada, Jagadisa dasa, apparently concerned about how a soul could fall down
from a perfect relationship with Krsna, asked if the fallen souls were most likely in a passive relationship
with Krsna. This might explain how a soul could fall. Those engaged in active relationships would not,
whereas the passive ones would be more susceptible to fall down. Srila Prabhupada answered Jagadisa in
a letter dated February 27, 1970.

Regarding your question concerning the spirit souls falling into Mayas influence, it is not
that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall
into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna
does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always
there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his
independence. But his relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply it is forgotten by
the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the
Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord
which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with
Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival
only, nothing new.

This answer gives a clue to interpreting apparently contradictory statements about the falldown of the
jiva. Srila Prabhupada says usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does
not fall down in any circumstance. This indicates that statements that no one falls down from
Vaikuntha are to be taken as general rules. Statements that one may fall down by misuse of
independence thus become specific exceptions to the general rule rather than contradictions. There are
other such examples in the Vedic literature. For example, it is said that bone is impure, but the conch
shell, which is the bone of an animal, is pure. Stool is impure, but the stool of the cow is pure.
Another very important point is that some will say that although souls with a developed relationship
could fall down, none of them ever do. Here Srila Prabhupada indicates that they do in some
instances fall down. But the relationship is not lost, simply forgotten. And it can be regained.
The last part of the above letter excerpt is remarkably clear in its description of the fallen souls original
direct relationship with Krsna. The relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply it is forgotten. The
relationship may be regained or revived.... the process is one of revival only, nothing new. This
statement by Srila Prabhupada rules out the hypothesis that the original relationship with Krsna is
undeveloped, or somehow different from the relationship that is achieved on going back to Godhead.

2.4.7 If someone has a relationship

with Lord Krsna on Krsna-loka, does he ever fall down?

On April 25, 1970, Srila Prabhupada wrote this letter in response to some questions raised by Jagadisa.

Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your
first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsna-loka, does he
ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their
nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time,
so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of ones independence. But
those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna are making proper use of their
independence and so they do not fall down.
Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they
with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes,
the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with
 Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the
father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the
Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called
susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do
not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become
engaged in material affairs.

In his answer to the first question, Srila Prabhupada indicates that it is possible to fall down from
Krsnaloka. This is in harmony with his answers to the other questions we have considered. In fact, Srila
Prabhupada is remarkably consistent in his answers. If his answers were inconsistent, we would perhaps
have reason to remain in doubt. But they are not inconsistent, and we have no reason to remain in doubt.
This does not mean there is not some need to consider Srila Prabhupadas statements carefully. For
example, the answers to the next question raised by Jagadisa need to be read carefully. Actually, Jagadisa
raises two separate questions, and Srila Prabhupada answers them separately. The first question is Have
the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? The second question is Were they with the Lord before being
conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature?
Srila Prabhupada first answers the second question (Were the conditioned souls ever with Krsna?). He
says: Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before
being conditioned.
Srila Prabhupada then answers the remaining question (Have the conditioned soulsafter being
conditionedever seen Krsna?). With great precision, Srila Prabhupada states: Just as the child must
have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has
seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition
called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not
remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material
affairs. It must be kept in mind that this description refers to the conditioned soulthat is what Jagadisa
specifically asked about. Has the conditioned soul ever seen Krsna? And the answer is yes, but in a
special sense. The conditioned soul was placed in the womb of material nature by the Supreme Lord in
His Maha-Visnu form. At this time, the conditioned soul is not in a waking state of consciousness.
Therefore his experience of Krsna is compared to that of an unborn child being somehow aware of his
father, who placed him in the womb of his mother. But before being conditioned, the souls were with
Krsna (they were with Krsna before being conditioned), and at that time they would not have been
unconscious. They therefore would have been seeing Krsna directly. But the process of conditioning,
which involves being put into the state of susupti, causes them to forget this (therefore they do not
remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world). Remember that susupti is one of
the stages of material consciousness, the others being waking and dreaming. This is a clear sign that Srila
Prabhupada is not talking about the soul in its original pure state but about the conditioned soul. He
specifically says that the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti.

2.4.8 We have got the independence

to give up His company

During a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971, the following exchange took
place.

Guest (3): Swamiji, can you tell us why were in this material contamination? Why is it
that the spirit soul has material contamination?
Prabhupada: That is the slight independence of the spirit soul. As soon as the spirit soul
wants to enjoy for himself... Just like many boys gives up the association of the parents
and he wants to enjoy this material world in his own way, without the sanction of the
 father and mother. He has got the right. Similarly, although we are all sons of God, or
Krsna, we have got the independence to give up His company and enjoy this
material world. That is contamination.
Guest (3): And do we all originate from Krsna?
Prabhupada: Yes.

The important point here is that Srila Prabhupada confirms that although we are all sons of God, or
Krsna, we have got the independence to give up His company and enjoy this material world. This means
that we cannot be from the brahmajyoti or the Viraja River.

2.4.9 Can he still fall?

In the next selection, from a Bhagavad-gita lecture given in Bombay on March 25, 1974, Srila
Prabhupada confirms that it is possible to fall down again from the spiritual world after returning there.

Mahapurusa: If the living entity is in the material world and hes an expansion of the
marginal energy, then hes... And he can purify himself and become eligible to enter into
the spiritual world and Krsna, but can he still fall as an expansion of the marginal energy?
Prabhupada: Yes. Marginal energy. Just like the sunshine is always there. Sometimes it is
covered by cloud.
 2.4.10 If we are originally in the spiritual world...

In a Bhagavad-gita lecture given in Mexico City on February 15, 1975, Srila Prabhupada answered the
classic question If we were full of pleasure in the spiritual world, how did we come to this inferior
position in the material world?

Hridayananda [translating]: He says that if we are originally in the spiritual world and
full of knowledge, how can we try to lord it over or, in other words, how can we try to do
something which actually cannot be done? And if we are originally full of pleasure, then
why would we accept an inferior position?
Prabhupada: That I have already explained, that although you have got the Gods
qualities, but you are very small. Just like a big fire and the sparks of the fire, similarly,
God is big fire, and we are like sparks of the fire. When the sparks come down from the
fire, it becomes extinguished. So because we are very small, very... I have already given
you the dimension. As soon as we become out of the big fire, in touch with God, then we
become extinguished. So somehow or other, if you are, again go to the fire, you have your
original, brightened, I mean, illuminating quality, the spark. So at the present moment,
somehow or other, being fallen in this material condition, we have lost our godly qualities.
We can cure that, just like a diseased man lost his appetite, but by treatment he can again
awaken his appetite and eat properly. So we, being very smallwe may say, a small
godtherefore we fall under the clutches of maya, illusion, but it can be cured. We can
again revive our original position.

2.4.11 As eternal servitors of Krsnaour constitutional positionwe fall down

when...

In a letter to Jananivasa Prabhu, dated August 27, 1967, Srila Prabhupada answers the following
question. If the soul is eternal and changeless, then how does it come to the conditioned state? It seems
like a contradiction. Srila Prabhupada wrote:

About your question: The Spirit Soul is certainly eternal and changeless; and the fall is
superficial, just like the relation between father and son cannot be broken ever. Now we
are simply in a phase of forgetfulness, and this forgetfulness is called Maya. There is a nice
example in the waning of the moon. To us the moon appears to be changing, but in fact
the moon is always the same. So as eternal servitors of Krsnaour constitutional
positionwe fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krsna. That is
our downfall. Krsna is the Supreme Enjoyer, and we are constitutionally to be
enjoyed by Him, and when we revive this constitutional position where is no more
Maya. K.C. gives us the opportunity of rendering service to Krsna, and this service
attitude only can replace us on our original position. Please therefore, continue to chant
faithfully, and Krsna will reveal Himself, by His Causeless Mercy, and you will know
everything automatically. I shall, of course always be ready and anxious to answer any
question you have.

Here once more we see that the original position is one of service to Krsna. The original position cannot
be in the brahmajyoti. There is no service to Krsna going on in the brahmajyoti, and the brahmajyoti
covers Krsnas personal form and abode from the vision of the souls in the Brahman effulgence. We
cannot be originally fallen, as the advocates of the brahmajyoti theory proclaim. Here Srila Prabhupada
says the fall is superficial. We are originally servants of Krsna but we fall down when we try to become
the enjoyer, imitating Krsna.
 2.4.12 You are not eternally conditioned

In a letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, Srila Prabhupada addressed another apparent
contradiction in Vaisnava teaching. If souls in the material world are eternally conditioned, how is it that
they can become eternally liberated? Aniruddha asked other questions, but it is the answer to this one that
is most relevant to our discussion.

Your next question, ...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krsna
do we then become eternally liberated?... You are not eternally conditioned. You are
eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to
enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we
are eternally conditioned. Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we
became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the
living entity is not actually conditioned. A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to
be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material
enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent.

2.4.13 Marginal energy jiva souls

have fallen from the spiritual world

In a letter dated December 2, 1968, Srila Prabhupada replied to a question by Rayarama. Here is Srila
Prabhupadas answer.

The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called
marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are
instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like
Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always
there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krsnas marginal energy.

It is of interest that Srila Prabhupada considers the fall of Jaya and Vijaya, although arranged by the
Supreme Lord, to be similar to the fall of other living beings from the spiritual world. These latter beings
fall by misuse of their free will and not by divine arrangement. Another point, gathered from this and the
other selections we have considered, is that the misuse of free will involves a decision to imitate Krsna.
This free will is an inherent spiritual quality of the individual soul, and the real essence of its exercise is
the choice not between matter and spirit but between serving Krsna or not serving Krsna. If one chooses
not to serve Krsna, then one is placed under the control of the material energy. So the exercise of free will
by the marginal energy in the spiritual world does not entail having the material energy present in the
spiritual atmosphere. Also, some have suggested that although jivas could fall from the spiritual world,
none do. But here Srila Prabhupada directly says that there are instances where marginal energy jiva
souls have fallen from the spiritual world.

2.4.14 Not from the impersonal Brahman

In recent years, some have proposed that the living entities in this material world were originally situated
in the brahmajyoti instead of a spiritual planet. Srila Prabhupada was directly asked about this and replied
in a letter to Revatinandana Prabhu, dated June 13, 1970.
 The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from
the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahma is also within the category of
non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in
the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition.
When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.

In other words, the living entities in this material world cannot have fallen from the brahmajyoti because
the living entities in the brahmajyoti are already fallen. Therefore the living entities in this material world
have fallen from the non-fallen position, which is Krsnas service.

2.4.15 There is possibility, but he does not come

In a Caitanya-caritamrta lecture delivered in San Francisco on February 18, 1967, Srila Prabhupada
answered questions about the origin of the jiva and falling down from the spiritual world.

Bhaktijana: Did Krsna create us to serve Him?

Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhaktijana: And to enjoy us?
Prabhupada: Yes. Very nice. So we should prepare ourselves to our healthy condition.
That is our healthy condition. As soon as we understand that Krsna created us... Krsna
created... There is no creation. Just like if I say that my hand is created, no, it is not
created. As long as the body is there, the hand is there. Otherwise, there is no meaning of
body. Similarly, we are not created. Krsna is always there; we are also always there. And
there are millions and millions of liberated souls who are engaged in Krsna. They never
misuse their independence. And we small quantity, we misused our independence. We
wanted to enjoy separately. Therefore we are conditioned.

Srila Prabhupada clearly sees the conditioned souls as having been part of the total population of souls
who in their healthy condition properly use their free will to serve Krsna in the spiritual world. But a
small number of this total population made a mistake. We misused our independence. We wanted to
enjoy separately. Therefore we are conditioned.

Bhaktijana: But there are, there are many...?

Prabhupada: ...liberated souls. They are never conditioned. They never become
conditioned. Yes?
Devotee: You mean they never were conditioned at any time or...
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee: You said there were millions of souls...
Prabhupada: Yes. They were never conditioned. They were never conditioned, never
conditioned. They are called nitya-mukta, eternally liberated. We are only simple few, this
material world. Just like I have several times told you that the prison house. The
population of prison house is nothing in comparison to the whole population. What is
there? Suppose in New York, there is a prison house. Oh, what may be the number? A few
thousand maybe. But here, millions. Similarly, the liberated souls are millions; we are only
few thousands, or hundreds. . . .

Here once more Srila Prabhupada is indicating that the conditioned souls were once part of the larger
population of souls in the spiritual world with Krsna. Only a small number of that total population misuse
their freedom and are placed in the prison of the material world.
 Bhaktijana: How could we make a poor choice if we were part and parcel of Krsna?
How could we have chosen the material world?
Prabhupada: Oh, because you have got independence. Dont you see so many students
come? They go away again. Yesterday Kirtanananda went to call Ranchora. He said, Oh,
I have forgotten this! So you can forget. There is another student. He was also our
student, Wally. Oh, you can go immediately! Suppose if you... Oh, I dont care for this
Krsna consciousness Society. Who calls you? You can go. That independence is there. We
can misuse.

The question by Bhaktijana dasa and answer by Srila Prabhupada are clear evidence that the original
position of the soul is a personal relationship with Krsna. But we can give it up, or forget it. Srila
Prabhupada sees the soul leaving Krsnas association as analogous to an ISKCON member leaving the
association of devotees and forgetting his practice of Krsna consciousness.

Bhaktijana: But Krsna will always be there if we want to go back?

Prabhupada: Eh? Krsna is always prepared to accept you. Hes always prepared. But
because He has given us independence, we misuse it and we fall under the clutches of
maya. That is our misfortune. We create this misfortune, and we can create our good
fortune. Man is the architect of his own fortune. So if you become Krsna conscious, it is
to your good fortune. If you become maya conscious, it is to your bad fortune. You are
the creator.
Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all... do they also have the
independence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that I am meant for Krsnas
service, and they are happy in Krsnas service.
Bhaktijana: Could they ever misuse it?
Prabhupada: Yes, they can misuse it also. That power is there. Yes?
Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected
and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, theres no possibility of
falling back.
Prabhupada: No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your
hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going
back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are
in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something.
Now, if somebody comes, Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again
and become a family man, Ill never become. Because I have got my bad experience. Ill
never become. So if one is intelligent enough, if he has got actually the bitter taste of this
material world, hell never agree. Hell never agree. But those who have not advanced to
such knowledge, oh, they think, Oh, this material enjoyment is very nice. Let me taste it. .
.

Could a soul fall twice? The answer is yes (there is possibility). If it is possible, it could happen. If one
says no, a soul could not fall twice, then it means it is impossible. But Srila Prabhupada says it is possible
to fall again, although he indicates one would have to be not really intelligent to do this (Just like after
putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent.).

Bhaktijana: Has my soul ever been liberated?

Prabhupada: That you know. I do not know.
Bhaktijana: If I was once liberated...
 Prabhupada: You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you.
Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever liberated.
That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya.
This is called maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the
dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no
tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. Dont you sometimes dream that tiger is eating
you? Is there any tiger? You are simply thinking. So if you keep in Krsna consciousness,
that nonsense thinking will go away. Therefore we have to keep ourself always in Krsna-
thinking so that this dream will never come. If you are always awakened, then dream never
comes. So keep yourself always awakened by Krsna consciousness.

Here Srila Prabhupada again gives the way we can adjust statements that no one falls from Vaikuntha.
Actually, we do not fall. We simply dream that we have fallen.

2.4.16 Potency of falling down is always there

In Los Angeles, on December 19, 1968, a devotee attending a Bhagavad-gita lecture once more placed
the classic apparent contradiction before Srila Prabhupada for resolution.

Devotee: It is said that once you achieve the Godhead, once you go back to Krsna, that
you dont fall down. But it is also said that we come from there originally. If we came
from there, how did we fall if we were already there?
Prabhupada: Yes, just like this example that personalities like Brahma and Siva, they also
sometimes become victims of maya. So our, I mean to say, potency of falling down is
always there, potency. And because we are part and parcel of God and because we are
now in the material world, it is to be understood that we have fallen down. But you
cannot trace out the history when you have fallen down. That is impossible. But our
position is marginal. At any moment, we can fall down. That tendency is there. Therefore
we are called marginal. But one...Just like it is very simple to understand. Everyone is
prone to fall diseased. Is it not? Now when you are diseased, there is no necessity of
finding out the history when you became diseased. You are diseased, make your treatment,
thats all. Similarly, we are in the material condition of life. Just go on treating it, and as
soon as you are cured, be careful not to fall down again. But there is chance of falling
down, again becoming diseased. Not that once you become cured, there is no chance of
becoming diseased again.

As in the previous selection, the indication is that we fell from Krsnas association and that even if we go
back to Krsna we can still fall down again. Many devotees seem extremely resistant to the fact that there
never was a time when our remaining in Krsnas association did not depend upon our proper use of free
will and that there will never be a time when this ceases to be true. Being of the marginal potency, that
choice will always confront us, as it has in the past. There is no way around it.

2.4. 17 If the conditions in the spiritual world

are so nice

In a conversation that took place in Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada once more
addressed the perennial question of how a soul could fall from a spiritual planet.

Guru-krpa: . . . They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful,
there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so why if the conditions in the
 spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that
one can become envious of Krsna in such conditions? This is a very . . .
Acyutananda: The original sin.
Sudama: Why we are envious.
Guru-krpa: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material
elements . . .
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-krpa: How is it that . . .
Prabhupada: That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got
little independence, you can violate.
Sudama: It is very hard to understand.
Prabhupada: No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult.
Acyutananda: It is not difficult. They dont want to understand.
Prabhupada: Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence,
but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel.

A little later in the same conversation:

Acyutananda: But in the Gita, it says, Once coming there, he never returns.
Prabhupada: But if he likes, he can return.
Acyutananda: He can return.
Prabhupada: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse
that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our
falldown.
Acyutananda: In Krsna book it says that there were some color fighting in Dvaraka.
They were throwing color. And some men became lusty seeing the women. So is . . . Will
that be the first part of their falldown, to be in Vaikuntha and think of personal lust
with Krsnas associates?
Prabhupada: Yes.

2.4.18 Yes, Krsna says, yes, you go.

In a conversation with Srila Prabhupada, in Los Angeles, on May 13, 1973, one of Srila Prabhupadas
disciples questioned a seeming contradiction.

Paramahamsa: But ultimately if we come to Krsna, theres no return. But nevertheless,

Jagai and . . . the two gatekeepers, they returned?
Prabhupada: There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is.
Paramahamsa: If we want.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: Fall down?
Prabhupada: Yes, as soon as we try, Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes,
Krsna says, yes, you go. Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. Do
you think everyone is interested? So they want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise
what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is
so kind, he gives him opportunity, All right, you enjoy like this. Just like some of our
students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not
stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prison house, not that government welcomes,
Come on. We have got prison house. Come here, come here. He goes out of his free
will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare,
 pasate maya tare japatiya dhara. The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We
have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be
arrested. The maya may be there, but maya captures him who is not a devotee of Krsna.
Thats all.

Srila Prabhupadas answer indicates that a soul can leave a spiritual planet, return, and go back again to
the material world. It all depends upon ones exercise of ones free will, which is an inherent spiritual
quality of the soul. In his answer, Srila Prabhupada also offers an intimate glimpse into the personal
interchanges between Krsna and the departing soul. Yes, you go, says Krsna. On several occasions,
Srila Prabhupada said that he was in direct communication with Krsna. If we accept that Srila Prabhupada
was on the level that he was constantly in direct communication with Krsna, then his references to
Krsnas words in connection with the fallen souls cannot be taken as simply metaphorical embellishments
or speculations on his part. The next selection offers an even more intimate glimpse into the personal
dimension of falldown from the spiritual world.

2.4.19 You forced Krsna to allow you to come

On June 27, 1974, in Melbourne, a devotee attending Srila Prabhupadas Bhagavad-gita lecture asked
Srila Prabhupada to resolve an apparent contradiction. In his answer, Srila Prabhupada offers confidential
information about the falldown of the soul from Krsnas association.

Devotee: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this
material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. You forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes
a child forces his father. Father says, My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.
But he insists. Oh, I must go. I must go. All right, you go at your risk. Thats all.
And you suffer. What can be done? Because you are son of GodGod has got
independence, full independence, almighty therefore you have acquired the quality of
your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little
independence. If you persist that I must go and enjoy independently, so God says,
All right, you can go. This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact.
But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy.

2.4.20 We should remain with Krsna

in the spiritual world

Here are some more interesting quotes, from a Bhagavad-gita lecture given in Melbourne, Australia, on
June 25, 1974. In the following quote, Srila Prabhupada poses the question Why we are in this material
world? and gives his usual answer:

So Krsna is bhokta and we are bhogya. It is not our position that we become Krsna and
become bhokta, no. That is wrong conception. You cannot become the enjoyer. You are
enjoyed. But when you want to imitate Krsna and want to become enjoyer, then you are
sent in this material world. This is material world. Why we are in this material world? We
are part and parcel of Krsna. We should remain with Krsna in the spiritual world. But
why are we put into this material world? That is explained. Purusah prakrti-stho hi
bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan. Because constitutionally a living entity is not enjoyer but
enjoyed.
So Srila Prabhupada recommends we should remain with Krsna in the spiritual world. That is our
original position. Statements like these, where Srila Prabhupada is directly addressing the question why
we are in the material world, have to be given more weight than statements of Srila Prabhupada pulled
from here and there and which do not directly relate to the question before us.
During the question session, there was the following exchange:

Devotee: When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect
relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we are
already serving Krsna?
Prabhupada: Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that Dont fall
down. And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, I cant understand why we should have an impure desire when
we are already serving...
Prabhupada: Because you have got a little freedom. Why one is not coming here and
going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.

2.4.21 Our endeavor should be

how to get our again original spiritual body

The following is from a room conversation with Srila Prabhupada that took place in Caracas, Venezuela,
on February 21, 1975.

Guest [Hridayananda dasa Goswami translates]: You have mentioned pain within the
body. What is the origin of pain and the origin of imperfection?
Prabhupada: Origin of pain means as soon as you come to the material world, is the
origin of pain. . . . . Now, these feelings of pains and pleasure is due to this material body.
Therefore the material body is the cause of pains and pleasure. So if you do not get this
material bodyyou remain in your spiritual bodythen there is no more pains and
pleasure. So that means the origin of pains and pleasure is our attachment to this material
body. If we can somehow or other get out of this material body, then there is no more
pains and pleasure or it is simply pleasure. Therefore in the Vedanta-sutra it is said,
anandamayah abhyasat. By nature the spirit soul is joyful. In the Bhagavad-gita it is
also said, brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati: As soon as you become
spiritually self-realized, then there is no more pains and pleasure. So pleasure means
absence of pain. So in your spiritual identity there is no pain, therefore it is simply
pleasure. Therefore our endeavor should be how to get our again original spiritual
body. Spiritual body is there already. It is covered by the material body, but some way or
other, if we stop the covering of the material body, then we are simply in pleasure.
Therefore our only attempt in this human body should be how to revive our spiritual body.
And that process is Krsna consciousness. That... Open that verse, janma karma me
divyam yo janati tattvatah, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya.
Hridayananda:

janma karma ca me divyam

evam yo vetti tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti so rjuna

[reads translation in Spanish]

 Prabhupada: So if you simply understand Krsna, then you revive your spiritual body.
Guest [Hridayananda translates]: How or why did this spiritual body become covered
by the material body?
Prabhupada: How your body is covered in a different dress when you go to the prison
house? When one goes to the prison, he has to keep his dress separately and take the
prison dress. So anyone who comes into this material world, he has to take a material
body. This is the law. Unless you have got this material body, how you can feel pleasure in
material sense enjoyment? Just like on a stage, if you are going to play, you have to take
dress according to the play. Therefore this material body is compared with the dress.

Clearly, we had spiritual bodies before we came to this material world. Srila Prabhupada says we had to
set these bodies aside when we came to this material world and took on a material body. Actually, the
body is still there. And we can revive our original spiritual body by Krsna consciousness.

2.4.22 Because we are small, minute fragments,

sometimes we fall down

On a morning walk conversation that took place in Los Angeles on December 6, 1973, Srila Prabhupada
answered many questions about our original position in the spiritual world and how we could have fallen
from it.

Hridayananda: Many times, the professors, they say that If God, if god were actually
all, all-good and all-perfect, then when He created us, we would also be all-good...
Prabhupada: Yes. But you are contaminated. You are all-good. Thats a fact. Because
you are part and parcel of God, you cannot be bad. But you are contaminated.
Hridayananda: Well, they say that Even, even if I have the potential... Even to say that I
have...
Prabhupada: You have got the potential. Thats it.
Hridayananda: But if I say that... If I, Im originally in the spiritual world, but even the
potential to fall down is an imperfection in the creation.
Prabhupada: No, potential does not [mean] fall down. Just like a child has got the
potency to pass the M.A. examination. So he has to be educated. If you dont educate
him, hell remain a foolish child. So we are educating to develop that potentiality.

nitya-siddha krsna-prema sadhya kabhu naya

sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

They, that potentiality is eternal. God is eternal. We are eternal. Our relationship, eternal.
Everything is eternal. But because we are small, minute fragments, sometimes we fall
down.
Hridayananda: They say, God should have, God should have created us so that we...
Prabhupada: Why you should dictate God? God has created perfectly. He has given you
independence. You fall down. It is your fault. God has made you perfect, given you
independence. But if you misuse your independence, you fall down. Just like
government gives everyone opportunity. Why do you become criminal and go to the jail?
That is your fault.
Hridayananda: They say that God should have created us so that we...
Prabhupada: Why Should have created? He has created already perfect. Because you
are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead
 stone. That is perfection. Ye yatha mam prapadyante. You can go anywhere, sarva-ga.
You can go to the Vaikuntha. Yanti deva-vrata devan. You can go to the higher planets.
You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all
perfection. Purnam idam purnam adah purnat purnam udacyate, everything is complete,
perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that
independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving your independence, you can become
perfect, although you are imperfect now. That is Krsna consciousness movement. Krsna
consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform. That is
Krsna consciousness. Other fools, they say, We are perfect now. In a fallen condition
also, theyre thinking perfect. That is maya. Asurim raksasim caiva mohinim prakrtim
sritah. Krsna has made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our
students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is
imperfect, or hes imperfect?
Hridayananda: Hes imperfect.
Prabhupada: Hes imperfect. Our movement is perfect. But he becomes imperfect by his
misuse of independence. He thinks that This is nice, and goes to hell. What can be done?
That independence is there. That is perfectness.
Hridayananda: So in other words, these, uh, the people that argue like that, they, they
actually are lazy. They dont want to surrender to God. Then they blame God.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because they have become imperfect, therefore they are blaming God.
God is good; they forget this. That is their imperfectness. One side, they say, God is
good. Still, theyre blaming God. What is this nonsense? If Hes God, God is good, how
can you blame Him? God is good; in all circumstances, Hes good. That is the meaning of
good. Good does not mean that one time you are good and next time you are bad. . . .
Umapati: Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful, why does He even let me
fall?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: If God is so powerful, why does He let me fall. Why doesnt He save me, save
me from my own foolishness. Why doesnt He...?
Prabhupada: Yes, Hes saving you, but you dont carry His order.
Umapati: Yes, but its not recognized.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like I say, Chant sixteen rounds. If you do not do it. What can I
do? That is your fault.
Satsvarupa: If God were to force us, thered be no love.
Prabhupada: Eh? No, no. Force is not good.

The message is clear. Originally we were with Krsna, but we fell down by misusing our independence.

2.4.23 If he desires, he can come again

The following conversation took place on a morning walk in Denver, on July 3, 1975.

Devotee (3): [break] You had said on a... earlier on a morning walk, on a tape, that if one
enters into the spiritual world thatyou were asked that he will never have to return
and you said that if its a desire, he can return to the material world.
Prabhupada: So what is your objection?
Devotee (3): I was just wondering if the spirit soul being in the spiritual world is eternally
liberated, how can he return. By desire?
Prabhupada: Yes. If he desires, he can come again. That option is always there. Just
like I remain in India. I come here. And if I like, I may not come. It is my option.
 2.4.24 If we were originally in the spiritual world,
why dont we remember that?

The following conversation took place in Srila Prabhupadas garden at the Los Angeles temple on June 8,
1976.

Ramesvara: But then there is an argument, if we were originally in the spiritual world,
why dont we remember that and try to go back to the spiritual world?
Prabhupada: That I have already said, that when I am in tour in Europe and India, I
completely forget about Los Angeles. I act according to the circumstances there. And
again when I come to Los Angeles, I immediately remember. This is natural. Out of sight,
out of mind.
Bharadvaja: Srila Prabhupada, we dont have to learn the activities of our spiritual body?
Prabhupada: Yes, when you are revived. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that now you
have got this human form of body, you get up to your original position. Uttisthata jagrata
prapta varan nibodhata. This is the Vedic injunction. Jiva jago jiva jago, Caitanya
Mahaprabhu says. Jiva jago jiva jago gauracanda bole kota nidra jao maya-pisacira
kole. How long youll sleep? Here is the opportunity. Try to understand yourself. That is
self-realization. And go back to home, back to Godhead. Why you are struggling here?
Krsna is coming. He is also saying the same, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam
saranam vraja. Why you are rotting in this material world? So for spiritual awakening
there are so many attempts by God Himself, by His devotees, by books, so many ways.
But we are not inclined. That is our fault.
Gopavrndapala: To take to Krsna consciousness is the real survival of the fittest.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is Krsna saying, coming, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati
bharata. Real dharma is to remain subordinate to Krsna as servant. Jivera svarupa
haya nitya-krsna-dasa. So we have forgotten it. This is dharmasya glanih. Dharma
means characteristics. It is not a faith; it is a fact. So our characteristic is that we are
eternal servant of God. When we forget this characteristic, that this is my original
characteristic, that is adharma. That is dharmasya glanih. So yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata. When there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging dharma,
my occupational duty, then there is this Krsna consciousness movement. So one has to
take it, then hes fortunate.

From this conversation, we learn that we were once in the spiritual world, in a spiritual body, engaged in
the service of Krsna. We have forgotten this, just like we forget a place when we leave it and travel
somewhere else. But we can revive our original spiritual body when we go back to Godhead.

2.4.25 Then again his liberated life begins

The following conversation took place in Columbus, Ohio, on May 14, 1969.

Prabhupada: Visnu-saktih para prokta. Visnu, the energy of Visnu, is transcendental,

spiritual. Ksetrajnakhya tatha para. As also this ksetrajna-sakti, marginal potency, that is
also transcendental, that is living entities. They are also transcendental. They are not
material. Avidya-karma-samjnanya trtiya-saktir isyate. Another sakti, another energy, is
there. That is avidya, darkness. This is material energy. So living entity is originally
 spiritual, transcendental, as good as Krsnas personal energy. But now they are
covered by this material energy.
Allen Ginsberg: How did the material covering begin?
Prabhupada: Begin?
Allen Ginsberg: As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on.
Because jiva, although para sakti, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate
Krsna... In the spiritual world Krsna is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed.
Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no
disagreement. There they know, The Lord is predominator. We have to serve. When
this service attitude is impaired, that Why serve Krsna? Why not ourself? that is
maya. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the
government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to
government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree,
then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jiva, independent, not fully
independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that
independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then
his place is in the material world. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare. When we
forget Krsna and try to lord it over something... And Krsna is the Supreme Lord. When we
try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom,
All right, you lord it over here. So here every living entity is trying to lord it over,
competition. I am trying individualwise, nationwise. Everyone is trying to lord it over.
That is material existence. And when he comes to his senses, jnanavan, that I am falsely
trying to lord it over. Rather, I am becoming implicated with material energy, when he
comes to that, then he surrenders. Then again his liberated life begins.
The original position of the soul is clearly as Krsnas direct servant in the spiritual world. As long as the
service attitude continues, the soul remains in the liberated position. But as soon as the soul desires to
imitate Krsna, to forget his position as servant of Krsna, he is placed in the material. But when he
surrenders, then again his liberated life begins.

2.4.26 We are playing with the big fire very nice,

but there is chance of falling down.

The following conversation took place on August 10, 1976, in Tehran, at an evening darsana with Srila
Prabhupada.

Atreya Rsi: In the beginning how does the spirit become ignorant, falls into ignorance?
Prabhupada: Hes not... Just like the same question, a criminal, if you say, In the
beginning, how he became criminal, is that very intelligent question? What do you think?
A prisoner, criminal, is living in the prison house since a long time, and if you raise this
question, In the beginning, how he became a criminal, is that very intelligent question?

The point Srila Prabhupada seems to be making is this. There is no history of how someone becomes a
conditioned soul, because as soon as one misuses ones independence one is immediately placed in the
material world. In this sense, it doesnt matter how long ago one misused ones independence. But as
soon as it happened, one entered the prison of the material world.

Atreya Rsi: No, but not everyone is prisoner.

Prabhupada: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no
question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very
good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a
criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse
your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some
independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are
criminal, go to prison house. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya. You cannot
cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare
pasate maya tare japati dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You havent
got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to
these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that. So there is no use wasting time
how it was begun. You are criminal. Now make your treatment that you may not become
criminal again. If you go to a doctor, you have got some sickness, and if the doctor
inquires, How it began? How it began? What business? Now I have got sickness, you
treat me. Thats all. What is the use of wasting time how it began? Some way or other, it
has begun. Now Ive come to you, make treatment. Thats all. Why should we waste our
time to find out the history how it began? That beginning can be possible at any moment.
As soon as we misuse our little independence, immediately the beginning is there. A
criminal means one who has violated the laws of the state. That is a fact. So when that
violation began, so that is not very important thing. You have violated, you are in the
prison house. Thats all. That is important thing.
Ali: Yes, thats right. My question is answered, but my confusion is still...
Prabhupada: What is that confusion?
Ali: Im amazed that... When someone tastes something, a nice fruit, something pleasant,
he remembers, appreciates that, even in material world. How could someone see God and
come from a source as powerful and lovable as that and then forget? How could he forget
so easily and become so badly attached to this materialism? Why is it that we are so far? I
know its in due course to my actions.
Prabhupada: That tendency is here. Because we are very small fragment of spiritual
identity, that tendency is there. The example is given, just like fire and spark of the fire.
The fire and the spark, the spark is very small, but it is fire. And the big fire, together they
look very beautiful. With the fire, when the sparks comesput sputso many sparks, it
looks very beautiful. But the sparks sometimes fall down from the original fire. Then it is
no more fire. It is fire, but its extinguished. The illumination is over. So we are small
particles of God. God is big fire; we are small particles of God. So we are playing with
the big fire very nice, but there is chance of falling down. That chance is there. The big
fire does not fall. The big fire is always blazing. But the small fire, although it is possessing
the same quality of fire, it may fall down. So we are small particle, very, very small, atomic
portion God. Therefore we have got the tendency to be separated from the big fire, and
then we begin our material body. Just like another crude example, just like a very rich
mans son, hes enjoying life. Sometimes he thinks, Why not independently live? Why
dependent on father? He goes out and he becomes a hippie. There are many examples.
He was living very comfortably, rich mans son, but he left the house of his father and
became a hippie. There are many practical examples. Why does he do so? I have seen in
Allahabad one big lawyer, very famous lawyer, Ferolal Bannerji. He had two sons. One
son became a good barrister like him, and another son became a car-wala, driving a car.
The reason was that this son, a car-wala, he fell in love with a low-class woman, and he
preferred to remain a car-wala.
Hari-sauri: What is that?
 Prabhupada: Low-class woman. So she was living in a cottage, hut, cottage. So out of
love he also preferred that I shall live with her, and I shall drive a car. So that is
independence. He preferred. So that discrimination preference is there always. You can
prefer a low-grade life out of your discretion. Nobody can check you.

As he sometimes did, Srila Prabhupada said the question of how and when we fell is not as important as
going back to Godhead. But, as always, Srila Prabhupada does answer the question of how we fell. We
were originally nicely situated as Krsnas servants, but at some point (it does not matter when) we
misused our independence and fell down from our original position.

2.4.27 When he misuses independence he falls

The following conversation took place in Los Angeles, on June 23, 1975.

Dr. John Mize: The question that bothers me in part is then why would the soul...
Because I understand your conception that the soul is part of the spiritual sky originally or
part of God, and it somehow falls out of this blissful condition due to pride, much like the
Christian thesis that the devil fell out of heaven due to pride. And it seems puzzling why
the soul would be so silly, so foolish, so insane, as to do such a thing.
Prabhupada: That is his independence.
Dr. John Mize: Independence.
Prabhupada: Instead of using independence properly, when he misuses independence he
falls.
Dr. John Mize: Im sorry, he what?
Prabhupada: He falls down.
Dr. John Mize: He falls.
Prabhupada: He falls down on account of his independence. Just like you have got
independence. You are sitting here. You can go immediately. You may not like to
hear me.

Clearly, Srila Prabhupada sees the soul as originally engaged in Krsnas service. It is a personal
relationship. That is the original, natural position. But one can give it up. Why? Because one is
independent.

Dr. John Mize: I wouldnt what?

Prabhupada: You may not like to hear me.
Dr. John Mize: Yes.
Prabhupada: That independence you have got. I have got also. I may not talk with you.
So that independence is always there. Similarly, as part and parcel of God, the, it is the
duty of the soul to be always engaged in the service of the Lord.
Dr. John Mize: Always engaged in...?
Prabhupada: In the service of the Lord.
Dr. John Mize: Service of the Lord.
Prabhupada: Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Whatever I am ordering,
it is immediately carrying out. I say, Make it like this. He will, it will do. So... But this is
dead matter. It is acting mechanically. The brain directs immediately the finger and it acts,
 like machine. This whole body is just like a machine, but soul is not machine mechanical
part. It is spiritual part. So therefore, as I am directing the finger, as being machine, it is
working, but if somebody else, a friend or servant, I may direct him to do something, he
may not do it. So when the soul misuses the independence, then he falls down. That is
material life. Material life means misusing the independence of soul. Just like a son. A sons
duty is to obey the father. But he may not obey. That is his madness. So when the soul,
misusing the independence, becomes mad, he is sent in this material world.

From many angles of vision, Srila Prabhupada keeps making the same point. We were once with Krsna,
engaged in His service, but by choice we have given up that position.

Dr. John Mize: It is puzzling to me that one would be so foolish.

Prabhupada: Because by independence you can become foolish. Otherwise, there is no
meaning of independence. Independence means you can do whatever you like. That is
stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that yathecchasi tatha kuru. Find out this verse in the
Eighteenth Chapter. That independence is there. After instructing the whole Bhagavad-
gita to Arjuna, Krsna gave him the independence, Now whatever you like, you can do.
Krsna never forced him to accept the teachings of Bhagavad-gita. He gave him the
independence, Now whatever you like, you can do. And he agreed. Yes. Now my
illusion is over, I shall act as You say. The same independence. Yes.
Bahulasva: This is in the Eighteenth Chapter.
Dharmadhyaksa:

iti te jnanam akhyatam

guhyad guhyataram maya
vimrsyaitad asesena
yathecchasi tatha kuru

Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this
fully, and then do what you wish to do.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now if you say, Why the soul should become so foolish? So that is
misuse of independence. Intelligent father has got intelligent son, but sometimes he
becomes a fool. So what is the reason? He is the part and parcel of the father. He should
have become exactly like the father. But he does not become like the father. I have seen. In
Allahabad was a big lawyer, barrister, Mr. Bannerjee. His eldest son was also barrister and
his youngest son, on account of bad association, he became an ekala wala. Ekala means...
In India there is a carriage drawn by one horse. So he liked to be an ekala. That means he
fell in love, a low class of woman, and by her association, he became an ekala. There are
many instances. The Ajamila upakhyana. He was a brahmana and then he fell down very
low. So this misuse of independence is always there.
Bahulasva: Srila Prabhupada, in our material contaminated state when we act in a
foolishly or mad, then we call that tamas, or our ignorance, but in the spiritual sky when
the living entity is in his pure state of consciousness, what acts..., Does something act
upon him to make him illusioned at that point also?
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense. They did not allow the
four Kumaras to enter. That was their fault. And the Kumaras became very sorry. Then
they cursed him that You are not fit to remain in this place. So we sometimes commit
mistake. That is also misuse of independence. Or we are prone to fall down because
we are small. Just like small fragment of fire. Although it is fire, it is prone to be
extinguished. The big fire does not extinguish. So Krsna is the big fire, and we are part and
 parcel, sparks, very small. So within the fire there are sparks, Fut, Fut! There are so
many. But if the sparks fall down, then it is extinguished. It is like that. The fall down
means material world. . .

Here once again, Srila Prabhupada compares the original position of the conditioned souls to that of Jaya
and Vijaya in Vaikuntha. We are just like Jaya and Vijaya.

Dr. John Mize: Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky
at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, theyre not
foolish, they dont fall down?
Prabhupada: No, there are... Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down.
Dr. John Mize: So were among the 10%.
Prabhupada: Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living
entities they are... Just like in the prison house, there are some population, but they are not
majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly,
majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few
fall down.

Srila Prabhupada clearly considers the fallen souls to have been originally part of the population of the
spiritual world, which in this context means a spiritual planet where the souls are directly engaged in
Krsnas service. So if no souls fall from the spiritual world, then Srila Prabhupada would not say that 90
percent of the souls there are always good. He would say that 100 percent are always good, and that
the fallen, conditioned souls have fallen from somewhere else.

Dr. John Mize: Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?
Prabhupada: Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient.
Dr. John Mize: Are more souls falling all the time?
Prabhupada: Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but
because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The
same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house
because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be
also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be
criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct
prison house also? One may say, Where is the criminal? You are constructing...
Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why
God cannot know? Because there is tendency.
Dr. John Mize: The origin of that tendency is...?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. John Mize: From where does that tendency come?
Prabhupada: Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that
independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If
you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not
independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tatha kuru. Now you
do whatever you like.
Jayatirtha: Because Krsna is independent, therefore the part and parcels...
Prabhupada: Yes. Part and parcel must have a little portion of independence.
Qualitatively, part and parcel means... Just like you take a drop of water from the sea. The,
all the chemical composition is there in the drop. So Krsna is fully independent. So we
living entities we are drop. Still, the independence quality is there in minute quantity.
Dr. John Mize: But Krsna has no tendency to fall, whereas we do.
 Prabhupada: No. Because Krsna is God. Therefore He is all good. Even He falls down,
to our estimation, it is not fall down. (break) ...cannot judge God. If we are devotee, in all
circumstances we shall glorify God, You are all-good. That is devotee. You cannot
criticize God, Oh, You are doing such thing, no.
Dr. John Mize: Im still puzzled about the relationship of the soul to God. If the soul is
eternal, as God is, and yet some souls have the tendency to fall and others dont have that
tendency...
Prabhupada: No, no, eternal does not mean not fall. Suppose you are now professor.
So you can fall down from your position. But that does not mean you are not eternal.
If you are fall down from your position, you do not lose your eternity. You simply fall
down. You can become a professor; you can become an ordinary man. But you are eternal
in all circumstance. Eternal... Fall down does not mean that he loses his eternal. That is
stated that na hanyate hanyamane sarire. Find out. Ajo nityah sasvato yam na hanyate
hanyamane sarire. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit. The living entity is never born or it
never dies. This is eternity. You change your body, but you eternal.

The message that comes through repeatedly is that we can fall down from our original position as servant
of Krsna by misuse of independence. It is clear that one falls down from a personal relationship. Nothing
here suggests that we fall down from some impersonal position in the brahmajyoti. When Srila
Prabhupada is talking about the spiritual world, he means the Vaikuntha planets, the topmost of which is
Goloka Vrndavana.

Dr. John Mize: When the soul was in the spiritual sky, it also had a mind and an
intelligence like here?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Yes. Unless he has got mind, how he misuses intelligence?
Dr. John Mize: But he misused that intelligence in his freedom, his independence.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Mind is there also. That is spiritual mind. Everything is spiritual.
There is nothing material. Body spiritual, mind spiritual, intelligence spiritual, he is
spiritual, the land spiritual, water spiritualeverything is spiritual. That is spiritual
world. Here in the material world, except the spirit soul, everything is material.

The references to the land and water being spiritual in the place where the soul once was clearly shows
that the soul was in a Vaikuntha planet, where there are variegated manifestations of the Lords spiritual
potencies. Such variety does not exist in the brahmajyoti.

2.4.28 When the living being imitates

the Supreme Personality of Godhead then he falls down

In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given on November 25, 1976, in Vrndavana, India, Srila Prabhupada
said:

The mind is the cause of our material existence, mano-dharma. Why we are in this
material world? On account of this change of mind. Our position is jivera svarupa haya
nitya krsna dasa. We are eternal servant of Krsna, but sometimes the servant thinks,
Why shall I remain a servant? Let me become master. That is natural. A master is
always in comfortable situation. Sometimes the servant becomes envious: Oh, why this
man should always remain in comfortable position and we shall serve? Why not we
become also in comfortable position? Let me eat as he eats, or Let me sleep now. These
are so-called comforts. So they want to imitate. When the living being imitates the
 Supreme Personality of Godhead then he falls down. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha
kare, pasate maya tare japatiya dhare. As soon as he forgets his positionhe wants to
imitatethat is the beginning of maya, falldown.

2.5 FURTHER CONCLUSIVE STATEMENTS

In the previous section, we have seen Srila Prabhupada repeatedly and consistently answer the questions
his disciples and others had about the falldown of the spirit soul from Krsnas association in His spiritual
planet. Resolving the apparent contradictions placed before him, he presents the conclusion that once we
were with Krsna in His spiritual abode. With that established, we can go on to other statements by Srila
Prabhupada that amplify this conclusion. These are statements not given as direct answers to explicit
questions. But they nevertheless directly address the questions before us. These statements can be
confidently accepted. If someone attempts to bewilder us by quoting some other statement of Srila
Prabhupadas (no one falls from Vaikuntha), we know how to answer them. These apparent
contradictions, the same ones you are raising, were brought before Srila Prabhupada several times by his
disciples. And Srila Prabhupada always answered that we can and did fall from Vaikuntha. Not only that,
but when we go back to Vaikuntha we can fall again. In any case, this so-called falling means that we
forget Krsna and dream that we are somewhere else. So in this sense, we really do not fall. But our
original position was to be awake in Krsna consciousness. So as followers of Srila Prabhupada we have
to accept that conclusion that we were originally with Krsna in a developed relationship of service. And
this is not just blind following. The same thing is there in Srimad-Bhagavatam and the statements of the
previous acaryas. There is nothing in the Sandarbhas of Jiva Goswami, properly understood, following
in the footsteps of Srila Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and Bhaktivinoda Thakura, that
contradicts any of Srila Prabhupadas statements. There is, for example, no statement in the
Sandarbhas of Jiva Goswami that says the souls in this material world were never with Krsna in a
spiritual planet. This will become clear in Part Four.

2.5.1 He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet

Srila Prabhupada said in a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture delivered on June 15, 1972, in Los Angeles:

The living entity is described here purusa because he wants to enjoy. Purusa is the
enjoyer. Actually enjoyer is Krsna, but we are imitating Krsna. We want to become
God. That is the Mayavada philosophy. That is our trouble. I am trying to imitate
something which I cannot. Suppose if I want to be God, is it possible to become
God? But they are trying to be. Bhramadbhih purusaih. So in this way, for this
misunderstanding, he is falsely trying to have happiness through so many species of
life. Let me enter this life, let me enter that life, that life, that life, that ... In this
way he falls down. He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this
material world, and he is again trying to make progress.

So here, addressing the position of the conditioned soul in the material world, Srila Prabhupada definitely
says that he is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. How is this to be taken in light of statements that
no one falls from Vaikuntha. It appears to be a contradiction. But Srila Prabhupada says that if there
appears to be a contradiction the student should inquire. And we have seen in the previous section that in
answer to direct questions about such contradictions, Srila Prabhupada has confirmed that souls can and
do fall from Vaikuntha by misuse of free will. This conclusion must therefore stand. A disciple of Srila
Prabhupada cannot go back to general statements by Srila Prabhupada that no one falls from Vaikuntha
and use them to dispute his specific statement that the conditioned souls in this material world have fallen
from a Vaikuntha planet. As we have seen, Srila Prabhupada also gives another adjustment. He says that
actually we do not fall from Vaikuntha. Rather, Krsna creates a situation by which we think we have
fallen. Statements by the previous acaryas must be seen in this light. If they cannot be harmonized with
Srila Prabhupadas teachings, then we have a difference between the acaryas. But we accept Srila
Prabhupadas version, thinking the other acarya must be saying the same thing but in a way that we
cannot understand at the moment. Also keep in mind that even advocates of the view that the conditioned
souls in this material world have not fallen from Vaikuntha planets admit that there is no statement by the
previous acaryas of the kind the conditioned souls in this material world were never in a Vaikuntha
planet.

2.5.2 Down from Vaikuntha

In a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in London on August 6, 1973, Srila Prabhupada said:

We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years
ago...

2.5.3 Every living entity

is originally a devotee of Krsna

In a Nectar of Devotion lecture given on October 23, 1972, in Vrndavana, India, Srila Prabhupada said:

We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only devotees, but everyone.
Everyone. Because every living entity is originally a devotee of Krsna. But
circumstantially, being covered by the coat of maya, hes playing like demon. But his
original nature is a devotee of Krsna. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsnera dasa. Everyone is
eternally servant of Krsna. But being influenced by maya, when he gets this body, given by
maya...Prakrtih kriyamananih gunaih karmani sarvasah, when he conducted by the three
gunas of maya, he thinks himself otherwise.

2.5.4 Just try to revive your lost relationship

with God, or Krsna

In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given on August 17, 1968, in Montreal, Srila Prabhupada said:

Therefore according to Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is no actually bread problem. The only

problem is that we have forgotten our relationship with God. Whatever... Tasyaiva hetoh
prayateta kovido. Therefore the instruction of Bhagavat is Just try to revive your lost
relationship with God, or Krsna. That relationship is never extinguished but
sometimes it is covered. Just like a crazy boy forgets his father and mother and home,
goes away. But the relationship between the son and the parents cannot be lost. As soon as
the son comes back, the parents receives him very nicely. Similarly, we are all sons of the
Supreme Lord. We have forgotten our father, we have forgotten our relationship, and we
are loitering in this material world as helpless, and if we revive our consciousness, our
Krsna consciousness, that My home is in the spiritual world, I am a foreigner in this
 material world... Just like a foreigner is traveling from one place to another, similarly, I am
also changing my body from one body to another, one planet to another. But there is no
permanent settlement anywhere in this material world. This is our condition. So Krsna
consciousness means to be rightly situated in the original consciousness that we are
all sons of God, Krsna.

2.5.5 To revive our old relationship with God

In a lecture given on October 7, 1975, in Durban, Srila Prabhupada said:

So therefore we have to first of all establish our relationship with God. Your establish, is
already established. Just like the father and the son. The relationship is already there. It is
not... But still, sometimes the son goes out of home and may be forgetting his father.
Similarly, we are out of home. We have come from the spiritual world in this material
world. We have forgotten our father. So we have to revive this relationship with our
father, or God, or Krsna. That is the main business of human life. In other species of life
lower than the human being it is not possible to revive our old relationship with God. But
in this life... Therefore this is the greatest opportunity.

2.5.6 Fallen means he has given up the service of Krsna

and he has taken the service of maya

In a lecture given in Tokyo on April 20, 1972, Srila Prabhupada said:

Fallen means when one falls down from his actual position. That is called fallen. So every
conditioned soul is fallen because he has fallen down from his actual position. What
is his actual position? The position is that he is eternal servant of Krsna. That is the
constitutional position of living entity. But he has fallen means he has given up the
service of Krsna and he has taken the service of maya, means so many things.
Somebody is serving country, society, friendship, love, and so many things. They have
created service. At last dog service, cat service. But because they have forgotten Krsnas
service, therefore they are called fallen.

2.5.7 Our natural position is ever liberated,

eternally liberated

In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given on June 20, 1973, in Mayapur, India, Srila Prabhupada said:

Now we are under the control of this external energy, material energy. We have become
controlled, just like we become controlled by the prison authorities when we are criminals.
Not ordinarily. Ordinarily we are free. Those who are not within the walls of prison
house, they are free. They are acting wherever they like they are going, but within the law.
Similarly we have got freedom. There are living entities, their number is greater. Nitya-
mukta, ever liberated. They live in the spiritual world, Vaikuntha planets. Nitya-mukta.
 Nitya-mukta means eternally liberated. They never come down in this material world. And
we are nitya-baddhaever conditioned, eternally conditioned. Eternally conditioned
means... We cannot be eternally conditioned, because we are part and parcel of
Krsna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated. But because we
wanted to imitate Krsna, we wanted to become Krsna, as the Mayavadis want to do,
therefore in the spiritual world, Krsna is the only enjoyer. Ekam eva advitiyam. Aham,
bhoktaram yajna tapasam sarva-loka mahesvaram. Sarva-loka, not only of the
Vaikunthalokas, planets, but these planets also. Everywhere, Krsna is the supreme
proprietor. Therefore he is the supreme enjoyer. We cannot be enjoyer. We each can simply
be servitor; that is our natural position. Just like a dog, when it serves a nice master, hes
happy. Otherwise, it is street dog. Nobody cares for it. Street dog. A street dog has no
position. Sometimes they are killed. Similarly, when we live under the full protection of
the Supreme Lord, that is our healthy condition, that is our real life. And as soon as
we give up this position to be subordinate, to be predominated by the Supreme
Lord, then we are bewildered. We are thrown into this, under the control of this
material nature, and according to our work we get different bodies.

2.5.8 Just to try to revive your original consciousness

In the following excerpts from a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given on December 6, 1973, in Los
Angeles, Srila Prabhupada said some important things about the original position of the soul.

Just like this finger is very intimately related with this body. But if it is separated it has no
value. But again if there is possibility to join this finger with this body, then again it begins
its value. That is Krsna consciousness movement. We are now separated from Krsna.
We have forgotten Krsna. This is our position. . . .
Just like you have lost your father, if you find out your father, immediately your
relationship with father is revived. There is no question. Heres my father. And father
says, Here is my son. Because the relationship is very intimate. Son may go out for years
together, but as soon as he comes back home he sees his father, mother, and that original
intimacy immediately revived. So we have got that intimate relation. So when we come to
that position to understand our intimate relationship with God, or Krsna, that is called
svarupa-siddhi, svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi means realization of perfection, svarupa-
siddhi. So here Suta Gosvami says sauhardena gadhena, santa. If a old friend meets
another old friend, they become very much delighted. Similarly, if the father meets the lost
child, he becomes very delighted and the child also becomes delighted. The husband, wife
separated, again they meet. So they become very delighted. It is quite natural. The master
and servant after many, many years, if they again meet, they become very delighted. . . . .
So in this way we are related with Krsna somehow or other. In veneration, in
servitude, as friend, as paternal affection, or as conjugal lover.... You see. So we have
to revive that. And as soon as you revive any one of them, intimacy, then we become
happy, because that is eternal. The same example... The finger, so long is separated, it is
not happy. As soon as it is joined it is happy. Similarly, we have got our eternal relationship
with Krsna. Now we are separated, but as soon as we join with him again we become
yenatma suprasidati. Therefore Krsna consciousness movement is beneficial for everyone
just to try to revive your original consciousness. That is already there, nitya-siddha krsna-
bhakti. Our Krsna consciousness is eternally a fact.
Clearly, the soul originally has a developed personal relationship with Krsna. This relationship is in one of
the five rasas. As Srila Prabhupada says, So in this way we are related with Krsna somehow or other. In
veneration, in servitude, as friend, as paternal affection, or as conjugal lover.... You see. So we have to
revive that. And as soon as you revive any one of them, intimacy, then we become happy, because that is
eternal. There is no hint that the original relationship is undeveloped or in any way different from the
relationship that a soul attains on going back to Godhead.

2.5.9 You shall come back again to Me

These senses are our... Actually they are not mine. The senses are given by the Lord. Last day
I explained. But we are very proud of our senses. But these senses are given just like a boy is
given some plaything by the father, similarly, we wanted to enjoy this material world.
Therefore our material senses are awarded: All right, you enjoy. You just have
experience of this material world, and when you get experience that I am not happy,
then you shall come back again to Me. So senses are actually meant for rendering service
to the Lord (Bhagavad-gita lecture, April 15, 1966, New York).

In this selection, we again get a glimpse into the confidential dealings of Lord Krsna with a soul who is
turning away from Him.

2.5.10 Every living entity,

even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka,
has chance of falling down

On October 27, 1969, in a letter to Upendra dasa, Srila Prabhupada wrote:

The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Vishnu Form, whereas the liberated
souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every
living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down.
Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has
taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two
classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. But for arguments
sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he cant be eternally conditioned. The Time
is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the
philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned.

The conditioned souls are always with the Maha-Visnu form, but they have not always been conditioned.
Therefore, they are not originally in the Maha-Visnu form.

2.5.11 We are all originally situated

on the platform of Krsna consciousness

On November 17, 1970, in a letter to Sriman Stan, Srila Prabhupada wrote:

We are all originally situated on the platform of Krsna consciousness in our eternal
personal relationship of love of Krsna. But due to forgetfulness we become familiar
with the material world or Maya. As soon as one chants the Hare Krsna Mantra with
sincerity and without offense (you know there are ten kinds of offenses to the Holy Name
 which we are to avoid very, very carefully) his original Krsna consciousness is immediately
revived. Krsna consciousness means to be always remembering Krsna in some way or
other, just like we are immediately thinking of Krsna when we chant His Name, Krsna, and
we are always thinking how we can do something nice to please Krsna with some service
or other, or we are reading literature about Krsna or speaking about Krsna. In this way we
are always remembering Krsna and that is our natural conscious state. So naturally
everything about Krsna is originally known to us all and as soon as we begin to
associate with the devotees of the Lord and chant His Holy Name, this memory
gradually becomes stronger as we remember our constitutional position of always
serving Krsna in different ways.

Here is a clear indication that the original relationship with Krsna is not different from the final state that
is achieved after going back to Godhead. The original state is described as a personal relationship of love
of Krsna.

2.5.12 We have given up the company of Krsna

On September 28, 1972, during a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture in Los Angeles, Srila Prabhupada said:

We are sparks of fire. So with the fire, if the sparks are fut-put... You see sometimes, the
sparks; it looks very beautiful. The same spark, as soon as falls down from the fire,
extinguished. The fiery quality immediately extinguished. So our material condition is like
that. We have given up the company of Krsna, and we wanted to be happy in this
material world; therefore we are suffering. So same spark, particle of carbon, if you
put again to the fire, it will again become red hot and fire. So this is Krsna
consciousness movement, that we are trying the sparks, which by chance has fallen down
from the fire, to pick it up again and put it in the fire. That is real happiness.

2.5.13 I have given up service of Krsna

On November 28, 1972, during a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita in Hyderabad, Srila Prabhupada said:

We are now serving our senses. That is our material characteristic. Material characteristic
because originally I am servant. I am not master. But I have given up service of Krsna.
Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. Why shall I become servant? I shall
become Krsna. All right, you become Krsna. You become enjoyer. That is material
world. Everyone is trying to become Krsna, enjoyer. So there is fight. Always.

Here Srila Prabhupada again shows that the original relationship with Krsna is one of active service. We
are not originally situated in the brahmajyoti with a dormant possibility of a relationship with Krsna.
 2.5.14 He falls down from
his real engagement in the service of the Lord

In the purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.37, Srila Prabhupada writes:

Because the Supreme Personality of Godhead is all-spiritual, He can descend from the
spiritual sky without changing His body, and thus He is known as acyuta, or infallible.
When a living entity falls down to the material world, however, he has to accept a material
body, and therefore, in his material embodiment, he cannot be called acyuta. Because he
falls down from his real engagement in the service of the Lord, the living entity gets
a material body to suffer or try to enjoy in the miserable material conditions of life.
Therefore the fallen living entity is cyuta, whereas the Lord is called acyuta.

2.5.15 To enjoy independently, without Krsna

In the purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 9.24.58, Srila Prabhupada writes:

Both the Lord and the living entity, being qualitatively spirit soul, have the tendency for
peaceful enjoyment, but when the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead
unfortunately wants to enjoy independently, without Krsna, he is put into the material
world, where he begins his life as Brahma and is gradually degraded to the status of an ant
or a worm in stool.

2.5.16 Even if he is elevated to a Vaikuntha planet,

he falls down

In the purport to Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 15.9, Srila Prabhupada writes:

From the very beginning of His childhood life Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu introduced the
system of observing a fast on the Ekadasi day. In the Bhakti-sandarbha by Srila Jiva
Gosvami there is a quotation from the Skanda Purana admonishing that a person who eats
grains on Ekadasi becomes a murderer of his mother, father, brother and spiritual master,
and even if he is elevated to a Vaikuntha planet, he falls down.

The point here is that the concept of falling from Vaikuntha was not unknown in the Puranas.
 2.5.17 Even if you are in Vaikuntha,
you will fall down

On July 4, 1974, in a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in Honolulu, Srila Prabhupada said:

After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world. Just like Jaya Vijaya.
There is possibility, if you do not stick to the spiritual principle, even if you are in
Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world? Because in the
Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no contaminated soul can stay there. He will fall down.

Here once more we see that spirit souls not only can fall down from Vaikuntha. They do fall down. Why?
Because they do not stick to the spiritual principle.

2.5.18 They cannot remain in Vaikuntha world

On May 20, 1972, in a lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam given in Los Angeles, Srila Prabhupada said:

The whole thing is sense gratification. Here, anyone who has come... Indriyartha artha-
vadinah. Their only aim is sense gratification. Thats all. Anyone. Beginning from Brahma
down to the ant. Material life means a desire for sense gratification. Theyre fallen
because they wanted to gratify their senses. They cannot remain in Vaikuntha world.
In the Vaikuntha world, only the one, the Supreme Lord, His senses should be satisfied not
anyones else. That is called bhakti.

2.5.19 We have fallen down, just like Jaya-Vijaya

On May 22, 1975, in a lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam given in Melbourne, Srila Prabhupada said:

But if you remain eternally in the instruction... And if you fall from the instruction, how
you can remain eternal? You have to stay on the platform. Then eternally you are safe. If
you fall down from the platform, then it is your fault. Just like we are all in the
Vaikuntha planet. Now, we wanted to enjoy this material world. We have fallen
down, just like Jaya-Vijaya. Now we are trying to go back again. Therefore we say,
Go back to home, back to Godhead.

Here Srila Prabhupada says, Just like we are all in the Vaikuntha planet. He is asking his hearers to
picture that. So let us picture it. Yes, we are all in a Vaikuntha planet. Then what happens? Now, we
wanted to enjoy this material world. We have fallen down, just like Jaya-Vijaya. Where have we fallen
down from? From a Vaikuntha planet. Were we in an undeveloped state? No. We were just like Jaya-
Vijaya. Why did we fall down? We wanted to enjoy this material world. And now what? We are trying
to go back again. Back where? To a Vaikuntha planet. And that is why we say back to Godhead. Here
is some very strong evidence. Srila Prabhupada is directly addressing the position of the conditioned souls
in this material world. He is saying directly that they were originally in a Vaikuntha planet, engaged in the
instruction of always serving Krsna.

2.5.20 All spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha

On July 9, 1970, in a letter to Jagadisa dasa, Srila Prabhupada wrote:

Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking
microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These spirit souls and all spirit
souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking
various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new soul.
New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so
if there is no birth how there can be new soul?

2.5.21 Revive his original state of loving service

In his purport to Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 5.66, Srila Prabhupada writes:

The conditioned state is caused by misuse of the individual independence of the spiritual
platform, for this separates the living entity from the association of the spiritual energy.
But when the living entity is enlightened by the grace of the Supreme Lord or His pure
devotee and becomes inclined to revive his original state of loving service, he is on the
most auspicious platform of eternal bliss and knowledge. The marginal jiva, or living
entity, misuses his independence and becomes averse to the eternal service attitude when
he independently thinks he is not energy but the energetic. This misconception of his own
existence leads him to the attitude of lording it over material nature.

2.5.22 Leaving His place,

I have come to this material world

On June 27, 1974, in a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in Melbourne, Srila Prabhupada said:

Suppose a boy is very rich mans son. But still, he thinks, Why shall I live under the rules
and regulations of my father? Let me go out. I shall enjoy life freely. Freely, what
freedom? You are already rich mans son. You can enjoy the property of your very, very
rich powerful father, and what independence you will enjoy? This is criminality. This is
criminality. We are sons of God, part and parcels of God, and God means almighty. So we
have got almighty father, and leaving His place, I have come to this material world
to enjoy independently.

2.5.23 The servants

who have rebelled against Krsna

On March 21, 1974, in a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in Bombay, Srila Prabhupada said:

Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. That is our identification. We are eternal servants
of Krsna. Therefore the servants who have rebelled against Krsna, they have come to this
material world. Therefore, to reclaim these servants, Krsna comes.

2.5.24 We shall revive

our original spiritual body
On July 18, 1966, in a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita given in New York, Srila Prabhupada said:

This birth and death [is] due to my, this material body. So as soon as we get our original
spiritual body and get out of the contamination of this material body, then we shall be as
good as Krsna. That is the whole process to understand. So we have to... This Krsna
consciousness means that by the process of Krsna consciousness we shall revive our
original spiritual body.
 2.5.25 He revives his spiritual body

In his purport to Bhagavad-gita 15.7, Srila Prabhupada writes:

The following information is there in the Madhyandi-nayana-sruti: sa va esa brahma-

nistha idam sariram marttyam atisrjya brahmabhisampadya brahmana pasyati
brahmana srnoti brahmanaivedam. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this
material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and
in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He can
hear and speak to Him face to face, and he can understand the Supreme Personality as He
is.

The key word in terms of our discussion is revive, which indicates that in its original condition the soul
has a spiritual body and is rendering service to Krsna. In the same purport, Srila Prabhupada also says:

That fragmental portion, when liberated from the bodily entanglement, revives its original
spiritual body in the spiritual sky in a spiritual planet and enjoys association with the
Supreme Lord.

2.5.26 He has forgotten his relationship with Krsna

If we are going to discuss the original constitutional position of the living being and his falldown, what
higher authority could there be than Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead
Himself? When Sanatana Goswami asked, Who am I?, the Lord replied:

jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya-dasa

It is the living entitys constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna. (Cc.

Madhya 22.108)

In text 117 of that chapter Lord Caitanya then goes on to explain:

krsna bhuli sei jiva anadi-bahirmukha

ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duhkha

Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external energy from time
immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [maya] gives him all kinds of misery in his
material existence.

Srila Prabhupada comments:

When the living entity forgets his constitutional position as an eternal servant of Krsna, he
is immediately entrapped by the illusory energy.

The original position is thus one of direct service to Krsna. Srila Prabhupada further states:
The living entity is eternal, and he existed before the creation of this material world.
Unfortunately he has forgotten his relationship with Krsna.
It has been suggested that the reason for the conditioned souls entrance into the material world is his
failure to awaken a supposedly dormant, potential tendency to serve Krsna. This is clearly contradicted by
the references to forgetfulness of an existing relationship of service. Srila Prabhupada describes the real
reason for the falldown:

One should understand that due to his desire to enjoy himself in competition with Krsna,
the living entity comes into material existence.

2.5.27 We will be reinstated

in our original constitutional position

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.39, Srila Prabhupada writes:

. . . we should give up the idea that without Krsna we can enjoy freedom in this material
world. This idea is the reason we have become entangled. Now it is our duty to seek
shelter again at the Lords lotus feet. This shelter is described as abhaya, or fearless. Since
Krsna is not subject to birth, death, old age, or disease, and since we are part and parcel of
Krsna, we also are not subject to birth, death, old age, and disease, but we have become
subject to these illusory problems because of our forgetfulness of Krsna and our position
as His eternal servants (jivera svarupa haya krsnera nityadasa). Therefore, if we
practice devotional service by always thinking of the Lord, always glorifying Him, and
always chanting about Him, as described in text 37 (srnvan grnan samsmarayams ca
cintayan), we will be reinstated in our original constitutional position and thus be
saved.

2.5.28 If we revive
our original intimate relationship with Krsna

In his purport to Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 20.130, Srila Prabhupada writes:

Thus Krsna knows the cause of the distressed condition of the conditioned soul. He
therefore descends from His original position to instruct the conditioned soul and inform
him about his forgetfulness of his relationship with Krsna. Krsna exhibits Himself in His
relationships in Vrndavana and at the Battle of Kuruksetra so that people will be attracted
to Him and again return home, back to Godhead.... If we revive our original intimate
relationship with Krsna, our distressed condition in the material world will be
mitigated.

This indicates that our original relationship with Krsna is direct and intimate and is not merely a
possibility of relationship. It is to this original relationship that we, as is so often stated by Srila
Prabhupada, return.

2.5.29 When the pure soul

wants to give up the Lords service

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.14.1, Srila Prabhupada writes:

 When the pure soul wants to give up the Lords service to enjoy the material world,
Krsna certainly gives him a chance to enter the material world.

2.5.30 There is only a material world

for those who want to imitate the Lord

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.24.63, Srila Prabhupada explains the cause of the living entitys
falldown from the spiritual world:

There is only a material world for those who want to imitate the Lord and become
enjoyers. Indeed, the material world is nothing but forgetfulness of the original Supreme
Personality of Godhead, the creator of everything. The distinction between matter and
spirit is created by the sleeping energy of the Lord when the Lord wants to give some
facility to those living entities who want to imitate the Lord in His enjoyment. . . . For
instance, sometimes children want to imitate their mother and cook in the kitchen, and at
such a time the mother supplies them with some toys so that the children can imitate her
cooking. Similarly, when some of the living entities want to imitate the activities of the
Lord, this material cosmic manifestation is created for them by the Lord.

To imitate the Lords pastimes, the soul must be aware of them. One might propose that the soul can be
aware of the pastimes without being engaged in them, but this hypothesis is negated by Srila
Prabhupadas statement, already quoted, that the living entity falls down from his real engagement in the
service of the Lord (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.37, purport).

2.5.31 The rasas were originally exchanged

between the spiritual living being and the spiritual whole

Part of many recent theories on the original condition of the jiva is that it was not situated in a direct rasa
with Krsna. But in his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.3, Srila Prabhupada states:

Every living entity, beginning from Brahma, the firstborn living being within the material
world, down to the insignificant ant, desires to relish some sort of taste derived from sense
perceptions. These sensual pleasures are technically called rasas . . . [the rasas are listed] .
. . Such rasas are displayed between man and man and between animal and animal. There
is no possibility of an exchange or rasa between a man and an animal or between a man
and any other species of living beings within the material world. The rasas are exchanged
between members of the same species. But as far as the spirit souls are concerned, they
are one qualitatively with the Supreme Lord. Therefore, the rasas were originally
exchanged between the spiritual living being and the spiritual whole, the Supreme
Personality of Godhead.

Note that the passage starts with a clear reference to conditioned souls in the material world. They
display rasas. Then it is said of these rasas that they were originally exchanged between these living
entities and the Lord. Then what happens?

In the material existence, the rasa is experienced in a perverted form, which is temporary.

Srila Prabhupada concludes:

 . . . one who attains full knowledge of these different rasas, which are the basic principle
of activities, can understand the false representations of the original rasas which are
reflected in the material world.

2.5.32 The original position is one of rendering service

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.27.1, Srila Prabhupada writes:

As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, liberation means reinstatement in ones original

position. The original position is one of rendering service to the Lord (bhakti-yogena,
bhaktya).

The word reinstatement is significant. This purport directly contradicts the theory that the original
position of the jiva is simply that of potential servitor.

2.5.33 Return them to the normal stage

of engaging the senses in the service of the Lord

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.39, Srila Prabhupada states:

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, is the object for fulfilling the senses of all
living entities. Illusioned by the glaring reflection of the external energy, the living entities
worship the senses instead of engaging them in properly fulfilling the desires of the
Supreme . . . . Originally the senses of the living entity were awarded for this
purpose, namely to engage them in the transcendental loving service of the Lord or
that of His devotees, but the conditioned souls, illusioned by the material energy, became
captivated by sense enjoyment. Therefore the whole process of God consciousness is
meant to rectify the conditional activities of the senses and to re-engage them in the
direct service of the Lord.

The word re-engage is significant because it confirms that in the original position the living entity was
engaged in direct service to the Lord by means of transcendental senses. Srila Prabhupada further states:
. . . servants like Brahmaji, Naradaji, Vyasaji and their company become busy with the
same purpose of the Lord: to reclaim the conditioned souls from the field of sense
gratification and return them to the normal stage of engaging the senses in the service of
the Lord.

The words reclaim and return are significant. The original position of the living entity is clearly one of
direct service.

2.5.34 Separated from the Supreme Lord

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.24.61, Srila Prabhupada summarizes the original constitutional
position of the living entity as well as his falldown:
 This fact is explained by a Vaisnava kavi, or poet: krsna bhuli sei jiva anadi-bahir-
mukha/ ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duhkha. When the living entity forgets the
Supreme Lord and wants to enjoy himself independently, imitating the Supreme Lord, he
is captured by the false notion that he is the enjoyer and is separated from the Supreme
Lord.

The words separated from the Lord indicate the direct nature of the original relationship between the
living entity and the Lord.

2.5.35 He should be restored to his pure identity

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.16.40, Srila Prabhupada quotes the following important verse
from the Narada-pancaratra and translates it in such a way as to clearly indicate the original
constitutional position of the fallen jiva:

sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena hrsikesa-
sevanam bhaktir ucyate

One should be free from all material designations and cleansed of all material
contaminations. He should be restored to his pure identity, in which he engages his senses
in the service of the proprietor of the senses. That is called devotional service.

Here it is clear that the pure identity to which the jiva is restored is one of direct personal service to the
Lord with transcendental senses. There is no question of merely a dormant propensity to enter into a
service relationship.

2.5.36 The omnipotent Lord

displays his pleasure potency as the living entities

Many theories of the original state of the jiva involve misconceptions about the energy of the Lord to
which the jiva belongs. It is clear, however, from Srila Prabhupadas teachings that the jiva ultimately is a
manifestation of the pleasure potency of the Lord. This is consistent with the jiva being originally
engaged in the Lords service. It is inconsistent with other theories, such as the jivas origin in the
brahmajyoti, in the sat feature of existence only. Ultimately everything is Brahman (sarvam khalv idam
brahma), but this simply means that everything is the Lords energy, and the Lords energy is variegated.
The general statement that the living entity is Brahman and that Krsna is Parabrahman is correct, but
more refined definitions are also given by Srila Prabhupada. In his purport to Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-
lila 7.116, he writes:

The basic principle for the existence of the living entities is called cid-vilasa, or spiritual
pleasure. The omnipotent Lord displays his pleasure potency as the living entities. The
Lord is described in the Vedanta-sutra as anandamayo bhyasat. He is by nature the
reservoir of all pleasures, and because He wants to enjoy pleasure, there must be energies
to give Him pleasure or supply Him the impetus for pleasure.
 2.5.37 In our original relationship
with the Supreme Lord there is real love

In the introduction to the Caitanya-caritamrta (page 9 in the English edition) Srila Prabhupada
writes:

In our original relationship with the Supreme Lord there is real love, and that love is
reflected pervertedly through material conditions. Our real love is continuous and
unending, but because that love is reflected pervertedly in this material world, it lacks
continuity and is inebriating.

In our original direct relationship with Krsna (which is characterized by real love and not dormant
love) we are situated in ananda and not merely in the sat feature of existence. Srila Prabhupada further
states:

Krsna has immense potencies, of which three are principal: the internal, the external, and
the marginal potencies. In the internal potency there are three divisions: samvit, hladini,
and sandhini. The hladini potency is Krsnas pleasure potency. All living entities have this
pleasure-seeking potency, for all beings are trying to have pleasure. This is the very nature
of the living entity.

Ananda is therefore not a secondary, suppressed, unmanifest feature of the living entity in its original
condition; rather it is the basic principle of existence.
 2.5.38 It is originally a part and parcel
of the pleasure potency

In The Science of Self-realization, Chapter 8, Srila Prabhupada states:

The whole basis of Krsna consciousness and a relationship with Krsna is the pleasure
potency of Krsna Himself. Srimati Radharani, the damsels of Vraja, and Krsnas cowherd
boyfriends are all expansions of Krsnas pleasure potency. We all have a tendency toward
pleasure because the source from which we emanate is fully potent in pleasure.
Impersonalists cannot think in these terms, for they deny the pleasure potency. . . . All
relationships with Krsna which aim at satisfying Krsnas senses are manifestations of
Krsnas pleasure potency. As far as the individual soul is concerned, it is originally a part
and parcel of the pleasure potency of the reservoir of pleasure Himself.

So we are not just Brahman, in the sense of being originally manifested by the brahmajyoti. We are
originally part of the internal pleasure potency of the Lord.

2.5.39 The living entity again becomes reinstated

in his original position

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.10.12, Srila Prabhupada states:

The Lord is the supreme enjoyer, and the living entities are meant to assist the Lord in His
enjoyment and thus participate in the transcendental enjoyment of everyone. The enjoyer
and the enjoyed both participate in enjoyment, but, deluded by the illusory energy, the
living entities want to become the enjoyer like the Lord, although they are not meant for
such enjoyment.

Some allege that the original position of the jiva is in the brahmajyoti and that there he merely
experiences the sat feature of existence. Others allege that the jiva originally has only a dormant seed of a
relationship with Krsna. But here we find that in his original position the living entity is situated in
ananda, spiritual enjoyment in company with the Lord. Srila Prabhupada states:

In the spiritual world the living entities are pure in nature, and therefore they are
associates in the enjoyment of the Supreme Lord. In the material world the spirit of
enjoyment of the living entities by dint of their own actions (karma) gradually fades by the
laws of nature, and thus the illusory energy dictates in the ears of the conditioned souls
that they should become one with the Lord. This is the last snare of the illusory energy.
When the last illusion is also cleared off by the mercy of the Lord, the living entity again
becomes reinstated in his original position and thus becomes actually liberated.

It is clearly stated that the original position is in spiritual pleasure. The word reinstated is significant.
Also, being merged in the brahmajyoti is called the last snare of the illusory energy, not the first snare.
According to some advocates our original position is in the brahmajyoti, but that idea is not supported
herein. The original position is servant of Krsna in the spiritual world. Some souls give up this position
and are placed in the material world, where they seek material enjoyment by karma. When they tire of
this, they may try to merge into the brahmajyoti. But later they may get the chance to return to their
original position of service.
 2.6 CONCLUSION

Srila Prabhupadas teachings reveal that the jiva was originally situated in a direct loving relationship with
Lord Krsna or Lord Narayana in a spiritual planet. The cause for the jiva leaving this original situation is
misuse of free will. This free will is an inherent spiritual quality of the soul, and its exercise does not
depend upon the action of any external force, such as maya. Misuse of free will is motivated by envy of
the Supreme Lord, by the desire to usurp the Lords position as supreme enjoyer and imitate His
pastimes. Srila Prabhupada even goes so far as to give a confidential glimpse of the exchanges that go on
between Krsna and a soul who is intent upon misusing its free will. Krsna tries to convince the soul not to
misuse its free will, but if the soul insists, then it goes to the material world by the arrangement of the
Lord. The Lord says, Yes, you go. But the Lord accompanies the living entity as Supersoul, and is
always eager to have the soul come back to Him. When the soul does go back to Godhead, says Srila
Prabhupada, this is nothing new, but merely a return to the original position.
Questions about some apparently contradictory statements to the effect that souls do not fall from
Vaikuntha were put to Srila Prabhupada by his disciples. Srila Prabhupada repeatedly answered these
questions in a consistent way. He said it is possible to fall from the spiritual world not only once, but even
after returning there. Therefore, statements about souls not falling from the spiritual world are to be taken
as the general rule. But that there are exceptions to this general rule are clear, not only from Srila
Prabhupadas words but from the words of the Srimad-Bhagavatam and the previous acaryas in our line,
going back to Lord Caitanya.
Sometimes Srila Prabhupada expresses the idea of not falling from Vaikuntha in a very precise way that
captures the real meaning. For example, in a Bhagavad-gita lecture given in New York on July 25, 1966,
Srila Prabhupada said that upon leaving this body the Krsna conscious soul does not require to come
back in this material world to have this material body. The words does not require capture the meaning
perfectly. The soul does not have to come back, as it would have to do from the brahmajyoti or any
material planet. It does not have to come back, and will not come back, unless it misuses its free will
again. That is possible, but very unlikely.
Srila Prabhupada has also said that in fact we do not really fall from the spiritual world. We simply forget
our relationship with Krsna. We are like a dreaming man. He is sleeping in his own bed, but he forgets this
and dreams he is somewhere else. When he wakes up from his dream, he finds himself still in his own bed.
Actually, he never left the bed. Similarly, when we desire to forget Krsna we are put into the dream of
material life. Actually, we do not fall. We remain in our position, but we simply forget it and in the dream
of material life it appears we have fallen away from our original position. But when we wake up from the
dream of material life, we find ourselves still in our original position, where we had been all along.
In any case, the clear essence of Srila Prabhupadas teaching about our original state is that once we were
with Krsna. This conclusion also finds support from Srimad-Bhagavatam and from the teachings of the
previous acaryas, as we shall see in the following sections.

3. EVIDENCE FROM
SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM

3.1 INTRODUCTION

We have seen that the whole question of the origin of the jiva can be settled from the statements of Srila
Prabhupada. Originally we were in a direct relationship of service with Krsna in the spiritual world. But
we have forgotten this. Sometimes it is said that we have fallen, but it is more accurate to say that we
have forgotten our original position. Although the word fallen can be used to describe our position, Srila
Prabhupada has explained that in reality we do not actually fall. We simply forget. Although Srila
Prabhupadas statements are sufficient evidence for deciding this question, we can also expect to find
support for them in the Vedic scriptures. As explained in the introduction to this paper, one does,
however, have to approach the Vedic scriptures with some caution. One will encounter many apparently
contradictory statements. So we should approach the Vedic scriptures taking the conclusions of Srila
Prabhupada as our guide. We should try to see everything in this light. Otherwise we may be led astray.
As far as the Vedic scriptures are concerned, some are more authoritative than others. In his Tattva-
sandarbha, Jiva Goswami elaborately explains how Srimad-Bhagavatam is the best source of knowledge
about the Absolute Truth. He therefore quotes it throughout his Sat-Sandarbha as the highest authority.
We also know from the Bhagavatam itself that it is the spotless Purana, the ripened fruit of the tree of
Vedic knowledge, composed by Srila Vyasadeva as a commentary on the Vedanta-sutra. There can thus
be no better source of knowledge about the origin of the jiva than the Bhagavatam.

3.2 FOURTH CANTO: THE BRAHMANA

AND QUEEN VAIDARBHI

3.2.1 In the past you had a very intimate friend

For some very direct statements about the original home of the jiva, we may turn to the passages in the
Fourth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam that deal with the instructions of the brahmana to Queen Vaidarbhi
after the death of her husband. It is clear from the texts and purports that the brahmana is, within the
allegory, the Supersoul, Krsna Himself. The brahmana says to Queen Vaidarbhi:

Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who is the man lying here? It appears you
are lamenting for this dead body. Dont you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You
may remember that many times in the past you have consulted Me. My dear friend, even
though you cannot immediately recognize Me, cant you remember that in the past you
had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a
position as enjoyer of this material world. My dear gentle friend, both you and I are
exactly like two swans. We live together in the same heart, which is just like the Manasa
Lake. Although we have been living together for many thousands of years, we are still far
away from our original home. [Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.52-54]
3.2.2 Even while in that position, the Lord remains with him
as the Supersoul, his intimate friend

Some devotees point out that Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has said in this connection that the
friendly relationship mentioned in these texts refers to the relationship between the soul and
Supersoul in Maha-Visnu. But in his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, Srila Prabhupada
gives this explanation:

The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is
the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live
together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the
Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living
entity wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world. Even while in
that position, the Lord remains with him as the Supersoul, his intimate friend.

Srila Prabhupada states, Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both
share a blissful life in the spiritual world. In other words, Srila Prabhupada takes the friendly relationship
as the original relationship between the living entity and the Supreme Lord in the spiritual world, and not
the relation between a conditioned soul and Maha-Visnu. The conditioned souls with Maha-Visnu are in a
state of susupti, or deep dreamless sleep, and not an active relationship of service. Here we have a case of
an apparent difference between the acaryas. I propose that we should accept Srila Prabhupadas version.
It is not that Srila Prabhupada always accepted the versions of previous acaryas. Here is one example. In
his purport to Bhagavatam texts 3.11.36-37, Srila Prabhupada comments, According to Srila Visvanatha
Cakravarti, the Brahma-kalpa in the beginning of the first half appears to be the Padma-kalpa. We can,
however, simply abide by the text and understand that the present millennium is in the second half of the
duration of the life of Brahma.
If there is an apparent difference between the statements of Srila Prabhupada and Visvanatha
Cakravarti Thakura, I propose that we should accept the version of Srila Prabhupada, and place
the statement of Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, if apparently contradictory, in the category of
differences among the acaryas. We should accept that in reality he is saying the same thing as
Srila Prabhupada, but in a way that we cannot yet understand.
The above purport to text 4.28.54 refutes the theory that the jiva in his original condition possesses
merely the potential for a relationship with Krsna. It is clearly stated: the living entity remains engaged in
the service of the Lord. This sentence of the purport also refutes the theory that the jiva originally exists
in the brahmajyoti, displaying only the sat feature of existence. Srila Prabhupada clearly states that the
living entity is enjoying ananda in company with the Lord. He says: they both share a blissful life in the
spiritual world.
But when the jiva comes to the material world, he is accompanied by the Supersoul. As we have seen, the
Supersoul appears before Queen Vaidarbhi as a brahmana. Srila Prabhupada comments:

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Paramatma, appeared before the queen as a

brahmana, but why didnt He appear in His original form of Sri Krsna? [Srimad-
Bhagavatam 4.28.51, purport]
This question indicates that it could just as well have been Sri Krsna who said to the queen in the past
you had a very intimate friend.
Prabhupada answers the question he raised thus:

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura remarks that unless one is very highly elevated in
loving the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot see Him as He is. [Srimad-
Bhagavatam 4.28.51, purport]

The question and its answer confirm that the original intimate friendly relationship of the queen was with
Krsna, and not His Supersoul expansion. Srila Prabhupada also makes that point in the above-quoted
purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54. There Srila Prabhupada says:

The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the
spiritual world. . . . However, when the living entity wants to enjoy himself, he falls down
into the material world. Even while in that position, the Lord remains with him as the
Supersoul, his intimate friend.

It is thus clear that the jivas relationship with Supersoul begins after his departure from Krsna.

3.2.3 We are also associated with Krsna,

as Paramatma within the heart

The Supersoul is none other than the localized aspect of Krsna Himself. Therefore, the words of the
Supersoul can be taken as those of Krsna Himself. The following statements by Srila Prabhupada from a
Bhagavad-gita lecture he gave on March 25, 1974, in Bombay will help us understand how to see the
Supersoul as a manifestation of Krsna Himself.

Krsna can expand Himselfananta-rupam. Ananta means unlimited. Just like in the
Bhagavad-gita it is said, isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese rjuna tisthati. Now, we are
individual souls. So we are also associated with Krsna, as Paramatma within the heart. . . .
Hes so . . . just looking after the opportunity when this living entity...

mamaivamso jiva-loke
jiva-bhutah sanatanah
manah sasthanindriyani
prakrti-sthani karsati

He is struggling for existence in this material world with his concocted mind and senses.
So Krsna is looking for the opportunity when the living entity will come back to Him.
Because we are all sons.
So father, if the son is bewildered, gone out of the home and loitering in the street, the
father is very anxious to get him back, although the son has forgotten. This is the position.
Therefore, as Paramatma, Hes guiding us. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistah. I am sitting
in everyones heart. Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca. From Him, we get the
remembrance.
I wanted to enjoy something. Krsna gives us full opportunity: Now here is the
opportunity. You can do it. Anumanta. Hes so kind. But that is not our actual business.
Our actual business is to go back to home, back to Godhead, not to enjoy this material
world. . . .
Just try to understand what is the position of Krsna. He is situated as Paramatma in
everyones heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese rjuna tisthati. And Hes giving
direction to everyone. And there are unlimited, innumerable living entities. So He has to
give instruction in different ways to so many living entities. How much busy He is, just try
to imagine! Still, His position is the same. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhutah. Goloka
eva nivasati. Krsna is still in His own original place, Goloka Vrndavana, and Hes enjoying
in the company of Srimati Radharani. . . . Because He has expanded Himself in so many
hearts of the living entities, that does not mean that He is finished in His own abode. No.
Still Hes there. That is Krsna.

3.2.4 You gave up My company and accepted a position

as enjoyer of this material world

So it is Krsna who is speaking as Supersoul to Queen Vaidarbhi. When the Supersoul is speaking, it is on
behalf of Krsna. Otherwise, the statements do not make sense. For example, the brahmana says,
Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world. The
Sanskrit for you gave up My company is hitva mam, which is quite straightforward. The Supersoul
always accompanies the conditioned soul in the material world. So there is no question of a jiva giving up
the company of the Supersoul to take up a position as enjoyer of the material world. Here, therefore, the
Supersoul is speaking of Himself as Krsna and not as His localized aspect. Interpreted in this way, the
statement makes sense. We have left Krsna (not Supersoul), but Krsna accompanies us as Supersoul and
reminds us that we have left Him in his original form.
The next words of the Sanskrit text (padam anvicchan) explain why the jiva left Krsna. Padam means
position and anvicchan means desiring. This indicates desire for a position as an independent enjoyer.
And then the verse says bhauma-bhoga-rato gatah. The synonym for bhauma is material. Bhoga
means enjoyment, ratah means attached to, and gatah means you became. So the whole
progression is that the soul, desiring an independent position, leaves Krsna and becomes attached to
material enjoyment.
The Supersoul begins to accompany the jiva only when the jiva manifests this desire for an independent
position and material enjoyment. Therefore it makes no sense for the Supersoul, simply as Supersoul, to
tell the conditioned soul that it left the Supersoul to take up an independent position as an enjoyer of
material pleasure. Before the jiva develops a desire for an independent position as material enjoyer, the
jiva has no relationship with Supersoul. There is no need for it. So when the Supersoul is speaking, He is
speaking on behalf of Krsna. It is Krsnanot Supersoulthat the soul gives up to take up an
independent position as enjoyer of material pleasure.

3.2.5 We are still far away from our original home

One might propose that even in the material world one can become aware of the guidance of the
Supersoul and give it up, just as one can accept a spiritual master and then give up his instruction. But
that is not what is being said here.
The brahmana also tells Vaidarbhi about her original position, before she entered the material world.
This is emphatically stated in the following section of the above quoted passage:

My dear gentle friend, both you and I are exactly like two swans. We live together in
the same heart, which is just like the Manasa lake. Although we have been living
together for many thousands of years, we are still far away from our original home.
[Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54]

The Sanskrit is straightforward. Abhutam antara vaukah. The word meanings are abhutambecame,
antaraseparated, vaindeed, okahfrom the original home.
If we accept that the Supersoul is speaking on behalf of Krsna, the above makes sense. The Supersoul
and the individual soul have been living for a long time in the same heart, but their original home is
elsewhere namely, the spiritual world. If we propose the Supersoul is speaking as Supersoul only, then
the statement does not make sense. Supersoul is present with the individual soul in the heart of the jiva
only within the material cosmos. So where is their original home, where they previously existed? This
statement only makes sense if we bring Krsna in His original form into the picture.

3.2.6 The person I have described as unknown

is the Supreme Personality of Godhead

In his speech to Queen Vidarbhi (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.53), the brahmana makes reference to her
avijnata-sakham (unknown friend). In text 4.29.3, Narada Muni, who told the story of the brahmana
and Queen Vaidarbhi, says:

yo vijnatahrtas tasya
purusasya sakhesvarah
yan na vijnayate pumbhir
namabhir va kriya-gunaih

The person I have described as unknown [avijnata] is the Supreme Personality of

Godhead, the master and eternal friend of the living entity. Since the living entities
cannot realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead by material names, activities, or
qualities, He remains everlastingly unknown to the conditioned soul.
The relevant word meanings are purusasyaof the living entity, sakhathe eternal friend, and isvarah
the master.
Srila Prabhupada, by saying in his translation that the unknown friend is the Supreme Personality of
Godhead, makes clear his identity. Furthermore, the purport to text 4.29.3 is all about how Krsnas
pastimes and qualities (not Supersouls) are unknown to the conditioned soul. Identifying the unknown
person with the Supreme Lord, Krsna, is consistent with this whole section of the Bhagavatam.
Identifying him with Supersoul or Maha-Visnu is not.

3.2.7 The living entity falls down

from the service of the Lord

The purport to text 4.28.53 sheds some more light on the original state of the jiva and the cause of its fall
into the material world. Srila Prabhupada says:

By misusing his independence, the living entity falls down from the service of the
Lord and takes a position in this material world as an enjoyer.

Also:

The vibhinnamsa expansions, the marginal potencies of the Lord, are the living entities.
When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of
duality and come to hate the service of the Lord. In this way the living entities fall into the
material world.

3.2.8 Since you left Me,

you have become more and more materialistic

The statement falls down from the service of the Lord in Srila Prabhupadas purport to text 4.28.53 is
quite explicit. One might say this is just Srila Prabhupadas particular way of explaining things. So let us
go back to the Bhagavatam texts. Text 4.28.55 says:

sa tvam vihaya mam bandho

gato gramya-matir mahim
vicaran padam adraksih
kayacin nirmitam striya

My dear friend, you are now My very same friend. Since you left Me, you have become
more and more materialistic, and not seeing Me, you have been traveling in different forms
throughout this material world, which was created by some woman.

The important word meanings are: sahthat swan, tvam yourself, vihayaleaving, mamMe,
bandhoO friend, gatahwent, gramyamaterial, matih consciousness, mahimto earth, kayacin
by someone, nirmitammanufactured, striyaby a woman.
It is very hard to get around the implications of this. Krsna and the jiva were friends before the jiva
entered the material world. The jiva left Him and came to the material world.
Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport:

When the living entity falls down, he goes into the material world, which was created by
the external energy of the Lord. The material energy is here described as some woman.
All of this indicates that the original relationship of intimate friendship described in this section of the
Bhagavatam is a relationship with Krsna and not just with Supersoul. The relationship with Supersoul
begins only when the jiva leaves Krsna and is put into the material world, which is created by Maya
(some woman). So before entering the material creation, the jiva was with someone. That someone can
only be Krsna or Narayana. Otherwise, the statement that the jiva leaves the Lord to come to the material
world makes no sense. When the jiva leaves the Lord, the Lord comes with him as Supersoul. And
through Supersoul, Krsna advises the soul to return to Him. Srila Prabhupada says in his purport
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.55):

Actually, it is Krsna who personally advises all living entities to return home, back to
Godhead.

This follows from the previous verse (4.28.54), which said (words in brackets inserted by me):

Although we have been living together for many thousands of years [as soul and
Supersoul], we are still far away from our original home.

This means that Krsna and the jiva are from the same place, which is called their homethe home of
both of them.

3.2.9 You have forgotten your spiritual life

We can now proceed to consider the following text (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.59):

tasmims tvam ramaya sprsto

ramamano sruta-smrtih
tat-sangad idrsim prapto
dasam papiyasam prabho

My dear friend, when you enter such a body along with the woman of material desires,
you become overly absorbed in sense enjoyment. Because of this you have forgotten your
spiritual life. Due to your material conceptions, you are placed in various material
conditions.

Asruta smrtih is translated by Srila Prabhupada as without remembrance of spiritual existence. The
nature of that spiritual existence, intimate friendship with Krsna, has been described in previous verses.

3.2.10 He regains his original Krsna consciousness,

which was lost because of his material attraction

This pointthat the original condition of the soul is Krsna consciousness, devotional service to the Lord
is made even more emphatically in text 4.28.64:

evam sa manaso hamso

hamsena pratibodhitah
sva-sthas tad vyabhicarena
nastam apa punah smrtim
 In this way both swans live together in the heart. When the one swan is instructed
by the other, he is situated in his constitutional position. This means he regains his
original Krsna consciousness, which was lost because of his material attraction.

The translation is very clear. The living being was originally Krsna conscious. And he lost this Krsna
consciousness because of material attraction. And when he is properly instructed he goes back to his
original Krsna consciousness. The clear identity between the original state of the jiva before falldown
with the position achieved after liberation is important. It rules out, for example, the theories that the jiva
was originally with Maha-Visnu, or in the brahmajyoti, or in some borderline position between the
material and spiritual worlds apart from a direct relationship with Krsna. These theories would make this
Bhagavatam verse and many others meaningless, in terms of the direct sense of the words. If the jiva was
originally with Maha-Visnu, or in the brahmajyoti, or on the borderline, but goes to Krsna upon
liberation, how can it be said that he regains his original Krsna consciousness? That only makes sense if
the state before falldown was also Krsna consciousness. Furthermore, what about the statements krsna
bahir mukha and nitya-siddha krsna prema given by our predecessor acaryas? These also imply an
original state of Krsna consciousness before falldown.
The Sanskrit here in text 4.28.64 is also very clear. The word meanings given by Srila Prabhupada are
nastamwhich was lost, apagained, punahagain, smrtimreal memory. In other words, that which
was lost is regained. I do not see how anyone can argue with this. It is right there in the Bhagavatam, in
the Sanskrit. And the purport, naturally, goes right along with it. Here are some excerpts:

When the inferior swan is separated from the other swan, he is attracted to material
enjoyment. This is the cause of his falldown. When he hears the instructions of the other
swan, he understands his real position and is again revived to his original consciousness. . .
.
The word sva-sthah, meaning situated in ones original position, is very significant in
this verse. When one gives up his unwanted attitude of superiority, he becomes situated in
his original position. The word tad- vyabhicarena is also significant, for it indicates that
when one is separated from God due to disobedience, his real sense is lost. Again, by the
grace of Krsna and guru, he can be properly situated in his liberated position. These verses
are spoken by Srila Narada Muni, and his purpose in speaking them is to revive our
consciousness. [Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.64, purport]

3.2.11 When he forgets his supreme master,

the Personality of Godhead

Narada Muni further states, in text 4.29.26:

yadatmanam avijnaya
bhagavantam param gurum
purusas tu visajjeta
gunesu prakrteh sva-drk

The living entity by nature has minute independence to choose his own good or bad
fortune, but when he forgets his supreme master, the Personality of Godhead, he gives
himself up to unto the modes of material nature.

The important word meanings are: atmanamthe Supreme Soul, avijnayaforgetting, bhagavantam
the Supreme Personality of Godhead, paramsupreme, gurumthe instructor. All of these indicate that
one forgets the Supreme Lord Krsna. Note the word bhagavantam, clearly indicating Krsna, not
simply the Supersoul. Advocates of the theory that the jivas were originally with Maha-Visnu may note
that Maha-Visnu is in the category of Paramatma, not in the category of Bhagavan (see purport to SB
1.3.1). If we take Maha-Visnu as Bhagavan, then this renders meaningless the statement (text 1.3.1) that
among all the incarnations of the Lord only Krsna is Bhagavan (krsnas tu bhagavan svayam).
In his purport to text 4.29.26, Srila Prabhupada states:

It is clearly stated herein that the living entity has a little independence, indicated by the
word sva-drk, meaning one who can see his own welfare. The living entitys
constitutional position is very minute, and he can be misled in his choice. He may choose
to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A servant may desire to start his own
business and imitate his master, and when he chooses to do so, he may leave the
protection of his master. Sometimes he is a failure, and sometimes he is successful.
Similarly, the living entity, part and parcel of Krsna, starts his own business to compete
with the Lord.

It is clear that originally there is a master-servant relationship going on, and that it gets forgotten.
Liberation means remembering it. This purport also answers a common question: Why, if a soul in the
spiritual world is enjoying the highest happiness, does it make a choice that leads it to suffering? The
answer is that the soul thinks that by taking the position of Krsna he will become even more happy. It is a
characteristic of spiritual happiness that it is constantly increasing, but by trying to increase his happiness
by imitating the Lord rather than intensifying his service to the Lord, the jiva makes a fundamental
mistake.

3.2.12 Not being interested in their real home,

they are illusioned and search after other homes

Narada Muni also says (text 4.29.48):

svam lokam na vidus te vai

yatra devo janardanah
ahuh dhumra-dhiyo vedam
sakarmakam atad-vidah

Those who are less intelligent accept the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies as all in all. They do
not know that the purpose of the Vedas is to understand ones own home, where the
Supreme Personality of Godhead lives. Not being interested in their real home, they are
illusioned and search after other homes.

The important word meanings are: svamown, lokamabode, na- -never, viduhknow, tesuch
persons, vaicertainly, yatrawhere, devahthe Supreme Personality of Godhead, janardanah
Krsna, or Visnu.
Here Narada Muni speaks of the home of the living entity not as some borderline position but as svam
lokam, his own planet, where Krsna lives. Srila Prabhupada comments:

Generally people are not aware of their interest in lifeto return home, back to Godhead.
People do not know about their real home in the spiritual world. In the spiritual world
there are many Vaikuntha planets, and the topmost planet is Krsnaloka, Goloka
Vrndavana. . . . The real attempt should now be to return home, back to Godhead.
[Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.29.48, purport]
 3.2.13 Conclusiveness of the Fourth Canto Evidence

On the basis of this section of the Bhagavatam alone, the whole question of the origin of the jiva can be
settled. Originally, the jiva was with Krsna, actively engaged in His service in a spiritual planet. The only
way around this is to propose that Srila Prabhupada mistranslated the Sanskrit of many texts and then
gave incorrect commentaries. But the Sanskrit itself is quite clear, as we have shown. Srila Prabhupadas
translations and purports flow quite naturally from the original text. Some have proposed that Srila
Prabhupada deliberately said things he did not really believe in his Bhagavatam translations and purports.
But this is completely out of character for Srila Prabhupada.
Now that we have established the clear meaning of the statements of the brahmana to Queen Vaidarbhi,
we can turn to other statements from the Bhagavatam.

3.3 SECOND CANTO: LORD BRAHMA

3.3.1 The eternally transcendental living entity

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.5.19, Lord Brahma states:

karya-karana-kartrtve
dravya-jnana-kriyasrayah
badhnanti nityada muktam
mayinam purusam gunah

These three modes of material nature, being further manifested as matter, knowledge, and
activities, put the eternally transcendental living entity under conditions of cause and effect
and make him responsible for such activities.

The key word meanings are: badhnanticonditions, nityadaeternally, muktamtranscendental, and

purusamthe living entity.
In this text of the Bhagavatam, we find Lord Brahma clearly stating that the original state of the soul is
nityada-mukta, or eternally liberated. But upon turning from Krsna, the soul is bound by the material
energy. This refutes the theory that the jivas in the material world are eternally conditioned in the sense of
never having had a relationship with Krsna. In his purport, Srila Prabhupada says:

Because they are between the internal and external potencies, the eternally transcendental
living entities are called the marginal potency of the Lord. Factually, the living entities are
not meant to be so conditioned by material energy, but due to their being affected by the
false sense of lording it over the material energy, they come under the influence of such
potency and thus become conditioned by the three modes of material nature. This external
energy of the Lord covers up the pure knowledge of the living entities eternally existing
with Him, but the covering is so constant that it appears that the conditioned soul is
eternally ignorant.

So here we have the true meaning of the term nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned), explained by Srila
Prabhupada and confirmed in the Bhagavatam itself. Lord Brahma clearly says that the living entity in the
material world is a nitya-mukta soul (nityada muktam purusam) that has come under the influence of the
material modes of nature. All souls are originally nitya mukta, but some come to the material world and
appear as if eternally ignorant. Significantly, Srila Prabhupada says that the external energy of the Lord
covers up the pure knowledge of the living entities eternally existing with Him.
 3.4 SECOND CANTO: SUKADEVA GOSWAMI

3.4.1 Spiritual and original bodies

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.5.19 (above) we learned that the soul is originally nityada-mukta (eternally
liberated). In text 2.10.6, Sukadeva Goswami gives the classic definition of mukti:

muktir hitvanyatha rupam

sva-rupena vyavasthitih

The word meanings are: muktihliberation, hitvagiving up, anyathaotherwise, rupamform, sva-
rupenain constitutional form, vyavasthitihpermanent situation.
Srila Prabhupadas translation is:

Liberation is the permanent situation of the form of the living being after he gives up the
changeable gross and subtle material bodies.

In his purport to text 2.10.6, Srila Prabhupada says:

. . . [S]ome of the conditioned souls, who follow the transcendental sound in the form of
the Vedic literatures and are thus able to go back to Godhead, attain spiritual and original
bodies after quitting the conditional gross and subtle bodies. The material conditional
bodies develop out of the living entities forgetfulness of their relationship with Godhead,
and during the course of the cosmic manifestation, the conditioned souls are given a
chance to revive their original status of life with the help of revealed scriptures, so
mercifully compiled by the Lord in His different incarnations.

So if we accept that the conditioned souls in this material world were originally nityada-mukta, as stated
in text 2.5.19, and also accept the definition of mukti given in text 2.10.6, it is clear the that every
conditioned jiva originally had a spiritual body and a relationship with Krsna. This conclusion is definitely
in line with the above purport by Srila Prabhupada, who speaks of spiritual and original bodies, the
jivas forgetfulness of their relationship with Godhead, and the conditioned souls being given a chance
to revive their original status of life. Thus, my view (once we were with Krsna), the Bhagavatam verses
2.5.19 and 2.10.6, taken directly, and Srila Prabhupadas translations and purports, taken directly, are
harmonious. If another view is taken (we were never with Krsna), the harmony disappears. One must
interpret the texts in an indirect fashion, i.e., that nityada-mukta does not mean originally eternally
liberated and sva-rupena does not mean ones original form. One must also propose that Srila
Prabhupadas explicit statements in his translations and purports are incorrect or are simply figurative
language that means something other than the dictionary definitions of the words. This is reminiscent of
the standard Mayavadi tactic of subjecting the Vedic texts to imaginative speculative interpretations by
the method of giving up the direct and simple meaning of the words.

3.5 THIRD CANTO: LORD KAPILA

3.5.1 Conditional life is due to his forgetfulness

of his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead
In the Third Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.31.15) we find the following verse:

yan-mayayoru-guna-karma-nibandhane smin
samsarike pathi caranti carams tad-abhisramena
nasta-smrtih punar ayam pravrnita lokam
yuktya kaya mahad-anugraham antarena

The human soul further prays: The living entity is put under the influence of material
nature and continues a hard struggle for existence on the path of repeated birth and death.
This conditional life is due to his forgetfulness of his relationship with the Supreme
Personality of Godhead. Therefore, without the Lords mercy, how can he again
engage in the transcendental loving service to the Lord.

This passage is from the prayers spoken by the soul within the womb, as explained by Lord Kapila to His
mother Devahuti. So this information is being related by the Supreme Lord Himself, as part of His
teachings to Devahuti. Who can be a greater expert about the original condition of the jiva than the
Supreme Lord Himself?
The key word meanings are: nastalost; smrtihmemory; punah again; ayamthis living entity;
pravrnitamay realize; lokam his true nature.
If the jiva had never before experienced his true nature, there would be no question of using the terms
nasta-smrtih (lost memory) and punah pravrnita (again realize). In other words, when we attain
realization of our eternal relationship with Krsna, this is something we had before and have forgotten. We
attain what we once had. This rules out, for example, the theory that the jiva was originally with Maha-
Visnu and that only when the jiva develops pure bhakti for the first time does it go to Krsna or Narayana.
In his purport to the above text (3.31.15), Srila Prabhupada makes these statements:

It is clearly said herein that our memory is lost because we are now covered by His
material energy. Arguments may be put forward as to why we have been put under the
influence of the material energy of the Lord. This is explained in Bhagavad-gita, where the
Lord says, I am sitting in everyones heart, and due to Me one is forgetful or one is alive
in knowledge. The forgetfulness of the conditioned soul is also due to the direction of the
Supreme Lord. A living entity misuses his little independence when he wants to lord it over
material nature. This misuse of independence, which is called maya, is always available;
otherwise there would be no independence. Independence implies that one can use it
properly or improperly. It is not static; it is dynamic. Therefore, misuse of independence is
the cause of being influenced by maya.

Note that it is not maya that causes the misuse of independence. Independence is an eternal spiritual
quality of the marginal potency, and its misuse is therefore not due to any material influence in Vaikuntha.
The ability to choose to serve or not serve Krsna is an inherent spiritual quality of the marginal potency.
Only when independence is misused does one come under the influence of maya.

3.5.2 He is forced to act in that way

due to his offense in his eternal relationship with Krsna

In another Third Canto purport (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.7), Srila Prabhupada says:

Whatever the material energy dictates, the conditioned soul does. He has no responsibility;
he is simply the witness of the action, but he is forced to act in that way due to his
offense in his eternal relationship with Krsna.
 3.5.3 I am separated from the Supreme Lord

Text 3.31.14 of the Bhagavatam may be considered in light of text 3.31.15, discussed above.

yah panca-bhuta-racite rahitah sarire

cchanno yathendriya-gunartha-cid-atmako ham
tenavikuntha-mahimanam rsim tam enam
vande param prakrti-purusayoh pumamsam

I am separated from the Supreme Lord because of my being in this material body, which is
made of five elements, and therefore my qualities and senses are being misused, although I
am essentially spiritual. Because the Supreme Personality of Godhead is transcendental to
material nature and the living entities, because He is devoid of such a material body, and
because He is always glorious in His spiritual qualities, I offer my obeisances unto Him.

The key synonym is rahitahseparated. In his purport, Srila Prabhupada says:

In the Vedas it is said that the living entity is always free. Asango hy ayam purusah. The
living entity is liberated. His material condition is temporary, and his actual position is that
he is liberated.

This may be of interest to those who assert that the jiva is originally not liberated.

3.6 FOURTH CANTO: MAHARAJA PRTHU

3.6.1 The forgetful living entity gradually remembers

his eternal relationship with You

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.25, Maharaja Prthu prays:

sa uttamasloka mahan-mukha-cyuto
bhavat-padambhoja-sudha-kananilah
smrtim punar vismrta-tattva-vartmanam
ku-yoginam no vitaraty alam varaih

My dear Lord, You are glorified by the selected verses uttered by great personalities. Such
glorification of Your lotus feet is just like saffron particles. When the transcendental
vibration from the mouths of great devotees carries the aroma of the saffron dust of
Your lotus feet, the forgetful living entity gradually remembers his eternal
relationship with You. . . .

The key word meanings are in the third and fourth lines: smrtim remembrance, punahagain, vismrta
forgotten, tattvato the truth, vartmanamof persons whose path, ku-yoginamof persons not in
the line of devotional service, nahof us, vitarati restores.
The verse begins by mentioning the glorification of the Lord. The great souls glorify the Lord. When the
fallen souls (the ku-yogis) hear this, their remembrance (smrtim) is restored, as indicated by the word
punah (again). From the construction of this verse there can be no doubt about what is being remembered
it is the relationship of the living entity with the Lord. If there were no previous relationship with the
Lord, the word smrtim would be meaningless.
Srila Prabhupada comments in his purport:

The transcendental vibration from the mouth of a pure devotee is so powerful that it can
revive the living entitys memory of his eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality
of Godhead.

It is abundantly clear that the original position of the living entity is one of direct service to the Lord, and
that he has now forgotten this. Srila Prabhupada further explains:

In our material existence, under the influence of illusory maya, we have almost forgotten
our eternal relationship with the Lord, exactly like a man sleeping very deeply who forgets
his duties.

Since Srila Prabhupada says our condition is exactly like that of a sleeping man who forgets his duties, we
may know that in our original waking condition we were engaged in direct duties in relationship with the
Supreme Personality of Godhead. Srila Prabhupada says:

As expressed in a song by Thakura Bhaktivinoda, Lord Caitanya says, jiva jaga, jiva jaga.
The Lord asks every sleeping living entity to get up and engage in devotional service so
that his mission in this human form of life may be fulfilled. . . . As soon as a sleeping
living entity hears the powerful voice emanating from the mouth of a pure devotee,
he immediately remembers his eternal relationship with the Lord, although up until
that moment he had forgotten everything.

The word remember is significant. It indicates the living entity was once established in a relationship with
Krsna. As Srila Prabhupada explains:

Every one of us is ku-yogi [a person not in the line of devotional service] because we have
engaged in the service of this material world, forgetting our eternal relationship with
the Lord as His eternal loving servants.

It is clear that the original position of the living being is one of direct loving servicenot a position of
dormant service in the brahmajyoti or in some imaginary borderline. Advocates of the Maha-Visnu theory
may note that there is no eternal loving relationship with Maha-Visnu. Maha-Visnu exists simply to direct
the affairs of the conditioned souls in the material cosmos. If the living entities had not given up their
loving relationship with Krsna or Narayana, there would be no need for Maha-Visnu.
The above-quoted verse is very instructive. For those who want to say that the conditioned souls had no
previous developed relationship with Krsna, the only way out is to say that Srila Prabhupada
mistranslated this verse and gave an incorrect commentary upon it. They would then have to offer their
own translation, which would involve giving indirect interpretations of the very clear words such as
smrtim punah. And they would also have to give a commentary contradicting that of Srila Prabhupada.
Such persons would be placing themselves as better translators and explainers of the Bhagavatam than
Srila Prabhupada.

3.7 SIXTH CANTO: VRTRASURA

3.7.1 Will I again be able to be a servant

 of Your eternal servants?

In his Sri Sanmodaya Bhasyam commentary on Text 5 of Lord Caitanyas Siksastaka, Bhaktivinoda
Thakura quotes this verse from the Sixth Canto of the Bhagavatam (6.11.24):

aham hare tava padaika-mula-

dasanudaso bhavitasmi bhuyah
manah smaretasu-pater gunams te
grnita vak karma karotu kayah

The translation given by Srila Prabhupada is:

O my Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, will I again be able to be a servant of

Your eternal servants who find shelter only at Your lotus feet? O Lord of my life, may I
again become their servant so that my mind may always think of Your transcendental
attributes, my words always glorify those attributes, and my body always engage in the
loving service of Your Lordship.

This was spoken by Vrtrasura before he was slain by Lord Indra. The key word meanings are: ahamI,
hareO Supreme Personality of Godhead, tavaof Your Lordship, pada-eka-mulawhose only shelter
is the lotus feet, dasa-anudasahthe servant of Your servant, bhavitasmishall I become, bhuyah
again.
It is significant that Bhaktivinoda Thakura cites this Bhagavatam verse in connection with Text 5 of the
Siksastakam:

ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram

patitam mam visame bhavambudhau
krpaya tava pada-pankaja-
sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya

O My Lord, O Krsna, son of Maharaja Nanda, I am Your eternal servant, but because of
My own fruitive acts I have fallen into this horrible ocean of nescience. Now please be
causelessly merciful to Me. Consider Me a particle of dust at Your lotus feet.

This indicates that the word again (bhuyah) in the above Bhagavatam text refers to the original state of
the jiva. In other words, Bhaktivinoda Thakura does not take text 6.11.24 as just a reference to feelings
of separation from devotees during a jivas stay in this material world. After giving text 6.11.24 as a
reference supporting Siksastaka 5, Bhaktivinoda Thakura states:

The jivas constitutional position is that of being enjoyed, or bhogya, and Lord Krsna is
always the Supreme Enjoyer. Hence if the jiva ardently serves and meditates upon the
Lord he will feel an indomitable urge to become a servitor of Srimati Radharani, who is
the embodiment of the highest spiritual bliss.

Text 6.11.24, taken on its own and as used by Bhaktivinoda Thakura in support of Siksastaka 5, indicates
this urge to become a servant of the servant is not something new.

3.8 SIXTH CANTO: SUPREME LORDS TEACHINGS

TO CITRAKETU
 3.8.1 When a living entity, thinking himself different from Me,
forgets his spiritual identity

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.16.57, the Supreme Lord says to King Citraketu:

yad etad vismrtam pumso

mad-bhavam bhinnam atmanah
tatah samsara etasya
dehad deho mrter mrtih

When a living entity, thinking himself different from Me, forgets his spiritual identity of
qualitative oneness with Me in eternity, knowledge and bliss, his material, conditional life
begins. In other words, instead of identifying his interest with Mine, he becomes interested
in his bodily expansions like his wife, children, and material possessions. In this way, by
the influence of his actions, one body comes from another, and after one death, another
death takes place.

The word meanings are: yatwhich, etatthis, vismrtamforgotten, pumsahof the living entity, mat-
bhavamMy spiritual position, bhinnamseparation, atmanahfrom the Supreme Soul, tatahfrom
that, samsarahmaterial, conditional life, etasya- -of the living entity, dehatfrom one body, dehah
another body, mrtehfrom one death, mrtihanother death.
This verse is spoken by Lord Sankarsana. In his translation, Srila Prabhupada expands somewhat from the
Sanskrit words of the text. But the Sanskrit words themselves are very clear. The spiritual nature of the
Lord (mat-bhavam), of which the living entity, being part and parcel of the Lord, partakes, is forgotten
(vismrtam) by the living entity. The living entity therefore becomes separated (bhinnam) from the
Supreme Lord (atmanah). This means that originally the living entity shares the nature of the Lord. Since
the Lord is full of eternity, knowledge, and bliss, the living entity shares that nature. As the Lord
experiences bliss by engaging in pastimes, the living entity is also engaged in those pastimes, as a servant.
But when the living entity forgets or gives up this nature (vismrtam mad-bhavam), then he is separated
from the Lord (bhinnam atmanah) and placed in conditional life (samsara). So this text is very direct
evidence that the jiva was originally with Krsna.
In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.16.57, Srila Prabhupada writes:

As stated by the Vaisnava poet Jagadananda Pandita in his Prema-vivarta:

krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare

nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare

As soon as a living entity forgets his constitutional position and endeavors to become one
with the Supreme, his conditional life begins.

3.9 SEVENTH CANTO: PRAHLADA MAHARAJA

3.9.1 You are my eternal master

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.10.6, Prahlada Maharaja prays:

aham tv akamas tvad-bhaktas

tvam ca svamy anapasrayah
nanyathehavayor artho
raja-sevakayor iva

O My Lord, I am Your unmotivated servant, and You are my eternal master. There is no
need of our being anything other than master and servant. You are naturally my master,
and I am naturally Your servant. We have no other relationship.

On the question of the conditioned souls previous relationship with Krsna, this verse is not as direct as
some of the others included here, but Srila Prabhupadas purport is very clear:

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, jivera svarupa hayakrsnera nitya-dasa: every living
being is eternally a servant of the Supreme Lord, Krsna. Lord Krsna says in Bhagavad-
gita (5.29), bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram: I am the proprietor of all
planets, and I am the supreme enjoyer. This is the natural position of the Lord, and the
natural position of the living entity is to surrender unto Him (sarva-dharman
parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja). If this relationship continues, then real
happiness exists eternally between the master and servant.

The words relationship continues indicate that the original constitutional position of the living entity is
one of direct service to the Lord (Krsna, not Maha-Visnu). There is no hint of the theory of original
dormancy of the relationship. In fact, the relationship is characterized as one of master and servant. Srila
Prabhupada continues:

Unfortunately, when this eternal relationship is disturbed, the living entity wants to become
separately happy and thinks that the master is his order supplier. In this way there cannot
be happiness.
Again it is clear that there is originally a direct relationship of service between the Lord and the living
entity.
Those who claim the jivas in this world had no previous direct relationship with Krsna will have to say
that Srila Prabhupada did not comment correctly on the above text.
 3.10 EIGHTH CANTO: KING SATYAVRATA

3.10.1 One regains his original identity

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 8.24.48, King Satyavrata says:

yat-sevayagner iva rudra-rodanam

puman vijahyan malam atmanah tamah
bhajeta varnam nijam esa so vyayo
bhuyat sa isah paramo guror gurah

One who wants to be free of material entanglement should take to the service of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead and give up the contamination of ignorance, involving
pious and impious activities. Thus one regains his original identity, just as a block of
gold or silver sheds all dirt and becomes purified when treated with fire.

The important word meanings are: yat sevayathe Supreme Personality of Godhead, by serving whom,
agnehin touch with fire, ivaas it is, rudra-rodanama block of silver or gold becomes purified,
pumana person, vijahyatcan give up, malamall the dirty things of material existence, atmanahof
ones self, tamahthe mode of ignorance, by which one performs pious and impious activities, bhajeta
may revive, varnamhis original identity, nijamones own.
Srila Prabhupada says in his purport:

Because of contamination by the modes of material nature, one continues in the cycle of
birth and death....Therefore, the purpose of human life is to purify oneself of this
contamination so that one can regain his spiritual form and not undergo this cycle of birth
and death. . . . The word varnam refers to the luster of ones original identity. The
original luster of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original luster of the living
being, who is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, is the luster of ananda, or
pleasure....The living being should become purified and regain his svarupa, his
original identity.

(See the explanation of Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.14.25 below for more on this analogy of the jivas return
to Godhead and golds purification.)

3.10.2 The intelligent person receiving such knowledge

is quickly situated in his original constitutional position

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 8.24.51, King Satyavrata goes on to say:

jano janasyadisate satim gatim

yaya prapadyeta duratyayam tamah
tvam tv avyayam jnanam amogham anjasa
prapadyate yena jano nijam padam

A materialistic so-called guru instructs his materialistic disciples about economic

development and sense gratification, and because of such instructions the foolish disciples
continue in the materialistic existence of ignorance. But Your Lordship gives knowledge
 that is eternal, and the intelligent person receiving such knowledge is quickly situated in
his original constitutional position.

The important word meanings are: tvamYour Lordship, tubut, avyayamindestructible, jnanam
knowledge, amoghamwithout material contamination, anjasavery soon, prapadyateachieves,
yenaby such knowledge, janaha person, nijamhis own, padam original position.
What is that original position? In his purport Srila Prabhupada explains:

The words nijam padam are significant. The living entity, being part and parcel of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead, has the birthright to a position in Vaikunthaloka,
or the spiritual world, where there is no anxiety. Therefore, one should follow the
instructions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, as stated in Bhagavad-gita,
tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti so rjuna: after giving up ones body, one will
return home, back to Godhead. . . . As a spiritual person, such a devotee returns to the
Personality of Godhead and plays and dances with Him.

It is clear from this purport that nijam padam, ones original constitutional position, is a place in
Vaikunthaloka, where one dances and plays with the Supreme Lord. It is to this position that one returns.
The Sanskrit term nijam padam is quite consistent with Srila Prabhupadas translation and purport. It is
also consistent with text 8.24.48, quoted above.

3.11 TENTH CANTO: THE SAGES AT KURUKSETRA

3.11.1 Such a person loses his memory

and cannot know You

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.84.25, the great sages gathered at Kuruksetra at the time of a solar eclipse,
witnessed by Krsna and His queens, said:

yatha sayanah purusa

atmanah guna-tattva-drk
nama-matrendriyabhatam
na veda rahitam param

evam tva nama-matresu

visayesv indriyehaya
mayaya vibhramac-citto
na veda smrty-upaplavat

A sleeping person imagines an alternative reality for himself and, seeing himself as having
various names and forms, forgets his waking identity, which is distinct from the dream.
Similarly, the senses of one whose consciousness is bewildered by illusion perceive only
the names and forms of material objects. Thus such a person loses his memory and cannot
know You.

The word meanings given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu are: yathaas,
sayanahsleeping, purusaha person, atmanamhimself, gunasecondary, tattvaof reality, drk
whose vision, namawith names, matraand forms, indriyathrough his mind, abhatammanifest, na
vedahe does not know, rahitamseparate, paramrather, evamsimilarly, tvaYou, nama-matresu
having names and forms, visayesuin objects of material perception, indriyaof the senses, ihayaby
the activity, mayayabecause of the influence of Your illusory energy, vibhramatbecoming bewildered,
cittahwhose consciousness, na vedaone does not know, smrtiof his memory, upaplavatdue to
the disruption.
There is no commentary by the previous acaryas given in the purport to this verse, but we can turn to
Srila Prabhupadas Krsna book translations of this and the following verse for some interpretative clues
(volume 2, page 286, 1996 edition):

When a person dreams at night, hallucinatory figures created by the dream are accepted as
real, and the imaginary dream body is accepted as ones real body. For the time being, one
forgets that beside the body created in hallucination, there is another, real body in his
awakened state. Similarly, in the awakened state also, the bewildered conditioned soul
considers sense enjoyment to be real happiness. By the process of enjoying the senses of
the material body, the spirit soul is covered, and his consciousness becomes materially
contaminated. It is due to material consciousness that one cannot understand the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, Krsna. All great mystic yogis endeavor to revive their Krsna
consciousness by mature practice of the yoga system. . . .

The indication is that the sleeping soul forgets Krsna and the activities of Krsna consciousness.
Otherwise, what is the sense of saying that yogis, by mature practice, can revive their Krsna
consciousness? The Sanskrit is equally clear on this point. It is said: evam tva . . . na veda smrty-
upaplavat. One does not know Krsna because ones memory of Him has been disrupted. That means the
constant remembrance of Krsna is there originally; otherwise, what is the sense of saying this
remembrance is disrupted? From all standpointsthe common-sense understanding of the metaphor of
the sleeping person, the Sanskrit words of the text, and Srila Prabhupadas translationthere is a
harmonious indication that the original waking state of the soul was Krsna consciousness, constant
remembrance of Krsna. The harmony is not only internal to this text The interpretation given here is also
harmonious with the other texts of the Bhagavatam cited in this chapter, as well as with many other
statements by Srila Prabhupada (Chapter Two) and the previous acaryas (Chapter Three). Any
interpretation that the original consciousness was not one of direct Krsna consciousness means giving up
the common-sense understanding of the metaphor, the direct meaning of the Sanskrit text, and the direct
meaning of Srila Prabhupadas translation. In other words, it is only by adopting the standard Mayavadi
tactic of giving indirect meanings that we can escape from the self-evident conclusion.

3.12 ELEVENTH CANTO: REVERSAL OF POSITION

3.12.1 Instead of being the eternal servant of Krsna,

he becomes Krsnas competitor

In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.2.37) it is said:

When the living entity is attracted by the material energy, which is separate from Krsna,
he is overpowered by fear. Because he is separated from the Supreme Personality of
Godhead by the material energy, his conception of life is reversed. In other words,
instead of being the eternal servant of Krsna, he becomes Krsnas competitor. This is
called viparyayo smrtih.
This is Srila Prabhupadas translation of this verse from the Caitanya-caritamrta. It was cited by Lord
Caitanya in His discussions with the Mayavadi sannyasis of Varanasi. It appears in Cc. Madhya 25.138.
Srila Prabhupada does not comment, but the plain words indicate the original position of the living entity
is one of direct service to the Lord (Krsna, not Maha-Visnu). The cause of falldown is attraction to maya.
If the original position is not one of service to Krsna, then the term reversal of position becomes
meaningless.
In the Gaudiya-Math English edition of Bhaktivinoda Thakuras Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, we find
the following passage. The English is somewhat awkward, so for clarification I have inserted some words
in brackets.

The very minute particles of chit-sakti are the jivas as separate parts. That is known as the
border potency which lies between the chit-sakti and maya-shakti. The maya-shakti has
no manifestation of existence in it, yet due to its minuteness it [the jiva] has a tendency
toward Maya. It is from the inscrutable potency of Krsna that such a sakti [the jiva-sakti]
has arisen. Krsnas irrestrainable Will is at the root of it. The separate part jivas are subject
to experience the fruit of karma. So long as they are mindful about the service of Krsna
according to their independent volition, they do not come under Maya or karma. But
when due to the abuse of the independent volition, they cherish a desire for self-
enjoyment and forget their own function of Krsnas service, they are enchanted by
Maya and come under karma. But as soon as they recollect that Krsnas service is the
function of their nature, mukti (liberation) comes up the[to?] rescue them from the
bondage of karma and the troubles caused by Maya.

At this point in the text, there are some footnotes to the above passage, in the form of verses that support
the points being made. These footnotes are part of the original Bengali text by Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
One of these footnotes is a citation of the above-cited Bhagavatam text, 11.2.37:

bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syad

isad apetasya viparyayo smrtih
tan-mayayato budha abhajet tam
bhaktyaikayesam guru-devatatma

Some key word meanings given in the Bhagavatam continuation by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and
Gopiparanadhana Prabhu are: isatfrom the Supreme Lord; apetasya for one who has turned away;
and asmrtihforgetfulness. The Sanskrit is quite straightforward. The translation given by Hridayananda
dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

Fear arises when a living entity misidentifies himself as the material body because of
absorption in the external, illusory energy of the Lord. When the living entity thus turns
away from the Supreme Lord, he also forgets [asmrtih] his own constitutional position as
a servant of the Lord. This bewildering, fearful condition is effected by the potency for
illusion, called maya. Therefore, an intelligent person should engage unflinchingly in the
unalloyed devotional service of the Lord, under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual
master, whom he should accept as his worshipable deity and as his very life and soul.
[Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.2.37]

In an article titled The Gaudiya Catechism (a page of which was sent to me by B. R. Sadhu Swami),
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati says:
 The sense of fear comes upon the jiva only when he turns his face toward the external
power. It is due to the reversal of his relationship with Krsna.

This statement, of course, is based on Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.2.37. So we have Srila Prabhupada,

Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati giving this verse as evidence that the conditioned
soul is in the material world as a result of reversing its original relationship with Krsna.

3.13 ELEVENTH CANTO: CAMASA RSI

3.13.1 If we do not serve the Supreme,

then we fall down from our specified place

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.5.3, Camasa Rsi, one of the nine Yogendras, says to King Nimi:

ya esam purusam saksad

atma-prabhavam isvaram
na bhajanty avajananti
sthanad bhrastah patanty adhah

The word meanings are: yaone who, esamof them, purusamthe Supreme Lord, saksatdirectly,
atma-prabhavamthe source of their own creation, isvaramthe supreme controller, nado not,
bhajantiworship, avajanantidisrespect, sthanatfrom their position, bhrastahfallen, patantithey
fall, adhahdown.
In the translation by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu, the emphasis is on
falling from ones position in the varnasrama system:

If any of the members of the four varnas and four asramas fail to worship or intentionally
disrespect the Personality of Godhead, who is the source of their own creation, they will
fall down from their position into a hellish state of life.

But Srila Prabhupada has given another reading. In his purport to Bhagavad-gita 6.47, Srila Prabhupada
states:

Every living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and thus
every living entity is intended to serve the Supreme Lord by his own constitution. Failing
to do this, he falls down. The Bhagavatam (11.5.3) confirms this as follows.

Srila Prabhupada then gives the same Sanskrit text as above, with this translation:

Anyone who does not render service and neglects his duty unto the primeval Lord, who
is the source of all living entities, will certainly fall down from his constitutional position.

So here Srila Prabhupada illuminates the deeper meaning of the text, bringing it from the realm of ones
social duties in varnasrama to ones constitutional position in relation to the Supreme Lord.
In a Bhagavad-gita lecture given on February 21, 1969, in Los Angeles, Srila Prabhupada quotes the
same Bhagavatam text, 11.5.3, and gives this commentary, which makes things even clearer:

This is also a very nice example. The Bhagavata says that we are all parts and parcels of
the Supreme. If we do not serve the Supreme, then we fall down from our specified place.
 What is that? . . . If the part and parcel cannot render service regularly, that means it is
painful. So any person who is not rendering service to the Supreme Lord, hes simply
giving pain to the Supreme Lord. Hes simply giving trouble. Therefore he has to
suffer. . . . The same example. Sthanad bhrastah patanty adhah. And as soon as one thing
is very painfuljust like the government keeps all these painful citizens into the prison
house. Collect together. You live here, you are nonsense, you criminals. Live here. Dont
live in the open state. Similarly, all these criminals who have violated the laws of
God, who have simply given pain to the Lord, they are put in this material world.
All these. And, sthanad bhrastah, he falls down from the specified place. . . . So we
have fallen down. Being against the principles of God consciousness, we are fallen
down. So if we want to revive our original position, we must be placed again into
that service attitude. . . . The best thing is to revive our original Krsna consciousness and
be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is natural life, and that is possible in the
spiritual sky or the Goloka Vrndavana.

In this same lecture the following exchange takes place:

Devotee: Why are you teaching Radha-Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: Because you have forgotten. That is your natural position. You have
forgotten the service of Radha and Krsna, therefore you have become the servant of
maya.

From all this it is clear that text 11.5.3 can be taken as evidence that the conditioned souls in this material
world have fallen down from direct engagement in the service of Krsna. It would take a person bolder
than I to suggest that Srila Prabhupada was incorrect in interpreting text 11.5.3 in this way.

3.14 ELEVENTH CANTO: PINGALA THE PROSTITUTE

3.14.1 He falls into the dark well of material existence

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.8.41, Pingala says:

samsara-kupe patitam
visayair musiteksanam
grastam kalahinatmanam
konyas tratum adhisvarah

The word meanings are: samsaramaterial existence, kupein the dark well, patitamfallen, visayaih
by sense gratification, musitastolen away, iksanamvision, grastamseized, kalaof time, ahina
by the serpent, atmanamthe living entity, kahwho, anyahelse, tratumis capable of delivering,
adhisvarahthe Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

The intelligence of the living entity is stolen away by activities of sense gratification, and
thus he falls into the dark well of material existence. Within that well he is then seized by
the deadly serpent of time. Who else but the Supreme Personality of Godhead could save
the poor living entity from such a hopeless condition?

In this text, we can see that in its original condition, the soul was possessed of active intelligence. By
misuse of intelligence, the soul falls into the material world. The Sanskrit word translated as intelligence
is iksanam, given in the word meanings as vision. Taken in this way, the indication is that the soul was
possessed of active transcendental senses in its original condition.

3.15 ELEVENTH CANTO: LORD KRSNA

3.15.1 The spirit soul returns to its original position

of serving Me in the spiritual world

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.14.25, Lord Krsna says to Uddhava:

 yathagnina hema malam jahati
dhmatam punah svam bhajate ca rupam
atma ca karmanusayam vidhuya
mad-bhakti-yogena bhajaty atho mam

The word meanings are: yathajust as, agninaby fire, hemagold, malamimpurities, jahatigives
up, dhmatamsmelted, punahagain, svamits own, bhajateenters, caalso, rupamform, atma
the spirit soul or consciousness, caalso, karmaof fruitive activities, anusayamthe resultant
contamination, vidhuyaremoving, mat-bhakti-yogenaby loving service to Me, bhajatiworships,
athothus, mamMe.
The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

Just as gold, when smelted in fire, gives up its impurities and returns to its pure brilliant
state, similarly, the spirit soul, absorbed in the fire of bhakti-yoga, is purified of all
contamination caused by previous fruitive activities and returns to its original position of
serving Me in the spiritual world.

In their purport, Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu state:

According to Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, this verse indicates that the
devotee goes back home, back to Godhead, and there worships Lord Krsna in his
original spiritual body, which is compared to the original pure form of smelted gold.

Taking the analogy between gold and the soul at face value, it can be seen that the translation of the text
is fully justified. It is clear that when the gold is smelted, it regains its original pure state (punah svam
bhajate ca rupam). One might argue that the gold is originally in an impure state (as ore), and that it is
purified by smelting. But the word punah (again) rules out this interpretation. In this analogy, the gold
must have originally been in a pure state and become contaminated. And by the smelting process it
regains its original state. The original state of the soul is rendering service to the Supreme Lord (bhakti).
This original state of activity is contaminated by the activity of karma, with its resultant effects. But by
the smelting process of devotional service (bhakti-yogena) one comes back to the original state of
rendering service. In this way, the two parts of the analogy remain harmonious. If the soul were not
originally engaged in service, the analogy would not hold. Since this text is being spoken by the Supreme
Lord Himself, the master of all literary accomplishment, we cannot imagine that He would use an
imperfect analogy. In any case, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti apparently confirms this reading, and
therefore also the translation as given above: the soul returns to its original position of serving Me in the
spiritual world.

3.15.2 He regains his ability to see Me,

the Absolute Truth, in My subtle spiritual form

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.14.26, Lord Krsna goes on to say:

yatha yathatma parimrjyate sau

mat-punya-gatha-sravanabhidhanaih
tatha tatha pasyati vastu suksmam
caksur yathaivanjana-samprayuktam

The word meanings are: yatha yathaas much as, atmathe spirit soul, the conscious entity,
parimrjyateis cleansed of material contamination, asauhe, mat-punya-gathathe pious narrations of
my glories, sravanaby hearing, abhidhanaihand by chanting, tatha tathaexactly in that proportion,
pasyatihe sees, vastuthe Absolute Truth, suksmamsubtle, being nonmaterial, caksuhthe eye,
yathajust as, evacertainly, anjanawith medicinal ointment, samprayuktamtreated.
The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

When a diseased eye is treated with medicinal ointment it gradually recovers its power to
see. Similarly, as a conscious living entity cleanses himself of material contamination by
hearing and chanting the pious narrations of My glories, he regains his ability to see Me,
the Absolute Truth, in My subtle spiritual form.

One might object that the analogy refers to a person who is blind from birth and whose blindness is cured
by some medical treatment. Therefore it is incorrect to speak of one regaining ones vision, since in the
Sanskrit text there is no direct mention of regaining either material sight or spiritual sight. This is
certainly a valid objection, if one simply takes this verse on its own. But because this text directly follows
the text above, where the analogy does speak about regaining an original healthy or pure condition, it is
reasonable to extend the concept of regaining something to this analogy as well. This is the way the
analogy would most fairly be understood in any case. Furthermore, we can consider this text in light of
text 11.8.41, which refers to musita iksanam, the conditioned souls vision being stolen away when he
falls into the deep well of samsara. This indicates that in the pre-conditioned state, there is vision.

3.16 TWELFTH CANTO: SUKADEVA GOSWAMI

3.16.1 Material false ego obstructs the individual soul

from realizing the Absolute Truth

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.3.49, Sukadeva Goswami says to King Pariksit:

yatha ghano rka-prabhavo rka-darsito

hy arkamsa-bhutasya ca caksusas tamah
evam tv aham brahma-gunas tad-iksito
brahmamsakasyatmana atma-bandhanah

The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

Although a cloud is the product of the sun and is also made visible by the sun, it
nevertheless creates darkness for the viewing eye, which is another partial expansion of
the sun. Similarly, material false ego, a particular product of the Absolute Truth made
visible by the Absolute Truth, obstructs the individual soul, another partial expansion of
the Absolute Truth, from realizing the Absolute Truth.
The key word meanings are: ahamfalse ego, brahma-gunaha quality of the Absolute Truth, tat-
iksitahvisible through the agency of that Absolute Truth, brahma-amsakasyaof the partial expansion
of the Absolute Truth, atmanahof the jiva soul, atma-bandhanahserving to obstruct perception of
the Supreme Soul.
The sense of the analogy is clear. The normal condition is that the sun is visible, but sometimes it is
covered by a cloud. Similarly, the normal condition of the jiva soul is to be seeing Krsna, but in some
cases this vision is blocked by false ego. Some may propose that in this analogy the blocking of the sun by
the cloud, or the blocking of the Lord from the jiva souls vision, is the original condition, and that this
verse refers only to the removing of that original condition of blockage. But the next text of the
Bhagavatam rules out this interpretation.
 3.16.2 He regains his original spiritual awareness

Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.4.33 reads:

ghano yadarka-prabhavo vidiryate

caksuh svarupam ravim iksate tada
yada hy ahankara upadhir atmano
jijnasaya nasyati tarhy anusmaret

The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

When the cloud originally produced from the sun is torn apart, the eye can see the actual
form of the sun. Similarly, when the spirit soul destroys his material covering of false ego
by inquiring into the transcendental science, he regains his original spiritual awareness.

The key word meanings are: yadawhen, hiindeed also, ahankarahfalse ego, upadhihthe
superficial covering, atmanahof the spirit soul, jijnasayaby spiritual inquiry, nasyatiis destroyed,
tarhiat that time, anusmaretone gains his proper remembrance.
In this text there is a definite reference in the Sanskrit to regaining memory (anusmaret). This shows that
the original state cannot be a covered state. This is also shown by the use of the word upadhih to
describe false ego. Upadhih means an artificial or temporary imposition of something upon the natural
state of a thing. Some might propose that this original uncovered state of awareness is not awareness of
Krsna. The whole structure of the Bhagavatam goes against this. The Bhagavatam is not an impersonalist
tract. The whole message of the Bhagavatam is that the final liberation of the soul is devotional service to
the Supreme Lord. The uncovering of the soul means uncovering its remembrance of Krsna.

3.16.3 When the gross and subtle bodies die,

the living entity within resumes his spiritual identity

In his final instructions to King Pariksit, Sukadeva Goswami says, in Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.5.5:

ghate bhinne ghatakasa

akasah syad yatha pura
evam dehe mrte jivo
brahma sampadyate punah

The key word meanings are: dehethe body, mrtewhen it is given up, in the liberated condition, jivah
the individual soul, brahmahis spiritual status, sampadyateattains, punahonce again.
The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

When a pot is broken, the portion of sky within the pot remains as the element sky, just
as before. In the same way, when the gross and subtle bodies die, the living entity within
resumes his spiritual identity.

Again, we must remember that the Bhagavatam is not some impersonalist tract. We cannot say that
Sukadeva Goswami is describing some impersonal kind of liberation to King Pariksit during his last
moments. When he says the soul regains its original spiritual identity this can only mean that it regains its
constitutional position as Krsnas eternal servitor. If we take the position that the liberation described
herein is impersonal, then the original state must also be impersonal since it is said that the soul again
(punah) attains it. The Bhagavatam will not allow such an interpretation.

3.17 WHAT ABOUT JAYA AND VIJAYA?

3.17.1 So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna,

that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya

One of the major evidences cited in support of the theory that the conditioned souls were never in the
direct association of Krsna is the Bhagavatams account of Jaya and Vijayas apparent falldown from
Vaikuntha. In fact, the Lords servants Jaya and Vijaya did not fall down because it is impossible for a
genuine servant of the Lord to fall from Vaikuntha. This is true. But some commentators jump from this
to a conclusion that is not truenamely, that conditioned souls who have fallen into the material world
cannot possibly have come from Vaikuntha planets.
It is interesting, however, that Srila Prabhupada, in his 1972 statement on the origin of the jiva (the one
concluding with the crow and tal fruit story), uses the same Bhagavatam account of Jaya and Vijaya as
evidence that the conditioned souls did indeed originally reside on a spiritual planet in direct association
with the Lord. Srila Prabhupada says:

Formerly we were with Krsna in his lila, or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of
very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due
to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. But this long
duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna
consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we
awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krsnas
friendsthey were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna
returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed.
So this dreaming condition is called nonliberated life, and this is just like a dream.
Although in this materialistic calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to
Krsna consciousness, then this period is considered as a second. For example: Jaya and
Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little
mistake. . . . So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the
evidence of Jaya-Vijaya.

Whatever else may be said about the story, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada considered the history of the
falldown of the average conditioned soul to be similar to that of Jaya and Vijaya. We were once in krsna-
lila and somehow we have fallen.
But what, it may be asked, of such statements of Srila Prabhupadas as in his purport to Srimad-
Bhagavatam 7.1.35?

From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend
from Vaikuntha do not actually fall.

And:

. . . it is to be understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this material world, they
came because there was something to be done for the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Otherwise it is a fact no one falls from Vaikuntha.
There appears to be a contradiction with Srila Prabhupadas other statements that souls can and do fall
from Vaikuntha. As we have seen, Srila Prabhupada has said that in reality we do not fall. We simply
forget our original relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world. In this sense it is true that no one falls
from Vaikuntha. But at the same time, it is also true that the forgetful conditioned soul was originally
engaged in direct service to Krsna in Vaikuntha. This resolves the apparent contradiction. But the
apparent contradiction can also be resolved as follows.
The question of the possibility of spirit souls falling from Vaikuntha was raised first by Maharaja
Yudhisthira. The nature of his question gives a clue to our dilemma. King Yudhisthira inquired (Srimad-
Bhagavatam 7.1.34):

What kind of curse could affect even liberated visnubhaktas, and what sort of person
could curse even the Lords associates? For unflinching devotees of the Lord to fall
again to this material world is impossible. I cannot believe this.

The key words are unflinching devotees. For such unflinching devotees it is indeed impossible to fall
down from Vaikunthathe apparent falldown of Jaya and Vijaya was especially arranged by the Lord for
the purpose of His transcendental pastimes. We note, however, that Jaya and Vijaya did not turn against
the Lord Himself. Although they offended the four Kumaras by refusing to let them enter the Lords
abode, they remained the Lords unflinching servants. But in the case of the conditioned souls, we are
talking of devotees who unfortunately did flinch. We have already cited many references demonstrating
that the cause of the conditioned souls falldown from the transcendental loving service of the Lord is his
desire to imitate and compete with the Lord. So there is no contradiction. One who remains a servant of
the Lord cannot really fall down, and one who gives up that service certainly does fall down, in fact.
In connection with the story of Jaya and Vijaya, Srila Prabhupada states in his purport to Srimad-
Bhagavatam 3.16.12:

It is to be assumed that there is no possibility of a misunderstanding between the Lord and

the devotees, but when there are discrepancies or disruptions between one devotee and
another, one has to suffer the consequences, although that suffering is temporary.

Jaya and Vijaya belong to this category. But there is, unfortunately, another category. This category
comprises those who do violate the basic assumption of life in Vaikunthaservice to the Lordand their
fate is different than that of Jaya and Vijaya. In Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.33, the Kumaras say:

In the Vaikuntha world there is complete harmony between the residents and the Supreme
Personality of Godhead. . . . [W]hy then is there a seed of fear in this field of harmony?

In his purport Srila Prabhupada explains:

The living entities, like ourselves, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, are meant
to satisfy the senses of the Lord. Thus, whenever there is a discrepancy in that harmony,
immediately the living entity is entrapped by maya, or illusion.

As we have many times seen, the original position of the living entity is in rendering direct service to the
senses of the Supreme Lord in the harmonious atmosphere of Vaikuntha. But when that harmony is
disturbed the living being falls down. Because such a living entity is put under the control of the
material energy, his fate is different from that of Jaya and Vijaya. Jaya and Vijaya came to the material
world, by the arrangement of the Lord, for a specific number of births (three). This was because of some
difficulty that arose in their behavior toward the four Kumaras and not because of any offensive action
toward the Lord Himself (they were trying to serve Him as best they could). On the other hand, the
conditioned souls are here because they became envious of the Lord Himself and wanted to imitate His
pastimes. They are here not for a specific number of births. There are here for as long as it takes to rectify
their offensive mentality. But, as Srila Prabhupada confirms, the fallen jivas are similar to Jaya and Vijaya
in that they were also originally participants in the Lords lila.

3.18 CONCLUSION

From the evidence of Srimad-Bhagavatam, we can conclude that the original position of the conditioned
jiva soul was a loving relationship with Lord Krsna or Lord Narayana in a Vaikuntha planet. This point is
made in an especially clear and direct fashion in the Fourth Canto, in the conversation between Queen
Vidarbhi and the Brahmana. When the soul leaves the spiritual world, Krsna accompanies it as Supersoul.
When the soul achieves liberation, this is, according to the Bhagavatam, a return to its original position
of devotional service. This is the understanding given by Srila Prabhupada. If an apparently different
reading is given by another acarya, we may place it in the category of a transcendental difference among
the acaryas, but we accept the understanding given by Srila Prabhupada.
There is no reason for a soul in the spiritual world to fall down other than misuse of his eternal freedom
of choice, which is an inherent part of his spiritual nature. This distinguishes the spiritual planets from
other places, where one must fall down. For example, if one achieves the heavenly planets, one must fall
down when ones good karma runs out. As Lord Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (9.21), ksine punye
martyalokam visanti. And even if, like Lord Brahma, one remains in a heavenly planet without falling
down, eventually the planet itself will be destroyed. Furthermore, even if one attains to the Brahman
effulgence, one must also come down, unless one achieves the shelter of the Lords lotus feet (aruhya
krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adho nadrtah-yusmad- anghrayah; Srimad-Bhagavatam
10.2.32). If one attains Vaikuntha, however, one is not forced to come downunless one misuses ones
free will and gives up ones loving service to the Lord.

4. STATEMENTS OF
THE PREVIOUS ACARYAS

4.1 INTRODUCTION

According to some, the statements of Srila Prabhupada about the original position of the jiva are
markedly different from those of the previous acaryas in our line, such as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Jiva Goswami. In this chapter, I will show that this is incorrect.

4.2 TEACHINGS OF BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA

This first set of quotes is from the Gaudiya-Math English edition of Bhaktivinoda Thakuras Shri
Chaitanya Shikshamritam. Eventually, it may be necessary to check the following excerpts against the
original Bengali to insure their accuracy.

4.2.1 When they forget their natural function

as Krsnas servitors

There is no guna (quality) or dharma (property) of Maya in the constitution of the

jivas. . . . The jivas in reality are pure chit beings, constituted of chit properties. On
 account of their marginal position (as the border potency), they are liable to be
bound down by the property of Maya. And that, too, occurs only when they forget
their natural function as Krsnas servitors. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, p. 36]

Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that the jivas come under the influence of maya only when they forget their
natural function as Krsnas servitors. Srila Prabhupada says we have forgotten our relationship as
Krsnas eternal servants, Srimad-Bhagavatam says it, and now we find Bhaktivinoda Thakura saying the
same thing. So guru, sastra, and sadhu are in agreement on this fundamental point.

4.2.2 The jiva, having forgotten his eternal relation with Krsna,
has fallen into the sea of Samsara

From the knowledge of that Sambandha tattva we have learnt that the jiva, having
forgotten his eternal relation with Krsna, has fallen into the sea of Samsara (worldly
life with succession of births) full of three kinds of scorching troubles and has been
suffering from much distress. Deliberating on the means how that suffering can be
prevented, we have known that if the relation referred to above be re-established, all
troubles will be removed and the highest bliss achieved. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam,
p. 43]

Some have proposed that our original relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world was perhaps not like
the developed relationship of service one achieves upon returning there. But here Bhaktivinoda Thakura
refers to reestablishing the original relationship, indicating that the final state is like the original state.

4.2.3 The jiva has forgotten

that he is the eternal servitor of Krsna

The jiva has forgotten that he is the eternal servitor of Krsna; for this fault Maya has tied
him at the neck. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, p. 44]

4.2.4 Chit body of Jiva

which was existent prior to its contact with matter

If we adopt the line of pure knowledge, it will be clear that Jiva is not the eternal
inhabitant of this sorrowful world. The present body of Jiva is not his eternal body. Jiva
is essentially chit (sentient). God is all-conscious. Jiva is a particle of that consciousness.
God is like the sun and Jiva is his tiny ray. God is Sat, Chit and Ananda in fullness and
Jiva is an atomic particle of that universal Chidananda. Matter and material world are not
nearest principles to God because they are not sentient. But because Jiva in its essence is
chit, so it has near relation to God. Just as God has His Swarupa Vigraha, so Jiva has
eternal chit Vigraha. That chit body is manifested in Vaikuntha. Being in material
world, it is hidden under two coverings . . . . The conceit [the dictionary meaning of
conceit is thought] of chit body of Jiva which was existent prior to its contact with
matter is just and natural. But after the contact with matter, the conceit of self has
become foreign and unjust. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, pp. 156-157]
The last passage is very interesting. Bhaktivinoda Thakura here describes the original spiritual body of the
jiva and explicitly states that that chit body is manifested in Vaikuntha. In the very next sentence he
states that this body, now being in [the] material world, is covered by the subtle and gross material
bodies. And just in case there is any doubt about what is meant, he goes on speak of the chit body of
Jiva which was existent prior to its contact with matter. And he already said that chit body is manifested
in Vaikuntha.
4.2.5 I am in essence, the eternal servant of Krsna

The vanity that I am in essence the eternal servant of Krsna, which was in chit
constituent of Jiva, becomes transformed as servant of Vishaya, i.e. matter. In this way,
Jivas bondage with Maya is established. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, p. 157]

The English here is somewhat stiff and archaic, with the word vanity being used in the sense of
identification. But the meaning is still clear.

4.2.6 Jiva takes recourse to chit

i.e. transcendental everlasting time in Vaikuntha

But many cannot understand distinctly how karma has no beginning. Time pertaining to
matter is only material reflection of chit-time and is a material thing suited to the
performance of karma. Jiva takes recourse to chit i.e. transcendental everlasting time in
Vaikuntha, where there is no past and future; only the present exists. When Jiva in
bondage enters in material time [it] becomes subject to past, future and present and, being
server of Trikala, suffers pleasure and pain. Material time originating from Chit kala and
Chit kala having no beginning, the origin of Jivas Karmai.e., aversion to Godis
coming even prior to material time. Therefore judged impartially with regard to Jadakala,
the root of Karma lies prior to this time and therefore Karma has been designated as
Anadi, i.e. without any beginning. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam p. 158]

So here is another passage where Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes the original position of the jiva to be
in Vaikuntha. The jiva then becomes subject to material time because of aversion to God. The jivas
entanglement in matter is said to be anadi simply because the root of this entanglement lies outside
Jadakala (mundane time).

4.2.7 Forgetfulness of his essential swarup

The reason of the jivas bondage is the forgetfulness of his essential swarup as servant of
God. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, p. 160]

4.2.8 Jivas aversion to Krsna

Misidentification of Jivas own swarup and oblivion of Krsnas Swarup are the two great
evils. From these evils arises Jivas aversion to Krsna, and on account of this aversion Jiva
falls into cyclic rotation of karma marga, created by Maya. [Shri Chaitanya
Shikshamritam, p. 196]
 4.2.9 That rasa
which, taking to chit-swarup, was pure bhava before
has been perverted by its impure reflection

Jiva, who is essentially chit, had pure vanity that he is servant of God and possessed
such signs, according to his particular nature. That vanity took recourse to pure vanity
of Jiva, whose nature is chit only. By taking to chit-swarup he had the sense of
determining right and wrong and also pure intellect for enjoying joy. He had
knowledge that God is the Ultimate Being and, taking Him as Vishaya, he had a
mind capable of meditation. But coming in contact with matter, these have been turned
into gross material body and mind, thereby those pure original propensities have
become impure. Therefore that rasa which, taking to chit-swarup, was pure bhava
before has been perverted by its impure reflection . . . . Therefore rasa is one: when it
remains in eternal pure stage it is ecstasy and joy, but when it remains in material stage it is
pleasure or pain arising out of matter. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam p. 220]

From this passage it can be seen that the jiva in the material world is originally actively engaged in rasa
with Krsna. He was originally a pure servant of Krsna, knew Krsna, but also had a sense of right and
wrong, and did the wrong thing. The rasa experienced in the material world was pure bhava before.
Here again the word vanity is used somewhat awkwardly in the sense of self-identification.

4.2.10 When pure rati falls down in this mundane world,

it mixes up with matter and becomes perverted

Jiva and God both taste rasa. When Jiva tastes, then God becomes tasted. When God
tastes, then Jiva (devotee) becomes tasted. Both are reciprocal. In reality rasa is the only
object to be tasted. The process of rasa is only to be tasted and the Sentience alone can
taste it. Rasa is eternal, indivisible, unthinkable and full of ultimate bliss. From pure rati, it
can rise up to the highest limit of Mahabhava. But when pure rati falls down in this
mundane world, it mixes up with matter and becomes perverted. It then creates
material infatuation. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam p. 228]

Here we see rati described as an aspect of rasa. It is clear that rasa, characterized by pure rati, is the
original condition of the jiva, and that this rasa is exchanged with Krsna in that original condition. But
when pure rati falls down in this mundane world, it mixes up with matter and becomes perverted. It then
creates material infatuation.
The next set of quotations is from the Gaudiya Math English edition of Bhaktivinoda Thakuras Jaiva
Dharma. Those who insist categorically that the jiva has no prior relationship of service with Krsna
before entering the material world have quoted Jaiva Dharma in support of their views. The quoting has
been quite selective, and the selected quotes have been misinterpreted. Here I will quote some additional
materials that support the point of view I express in this bookthat the conditioned soul has forgotten
his eternal relationship with Krsna.

4.2.11 Nature that springs up

with the formation of a thing is eternal
and remains latent though it is perverted or changed

When Krsna wills to form a thing, a concomitant nature goes hand in hand with the
formation of the thing, and that nature is its eternal characteristic. When that thing is
 contaminated due to unforeseen events, or is perverted by coming in contact with another
thing, then its nature is also perverted or changed. . . . This changed or perverted nature is
not inborn or innate in the thing, but causal or accidental . . . . As for example, water is a
thing, liquidity is its property. When it happens to be ice, solidity or rigidity becomes its
causal or accidental property and is current with the real nature. In fact, causation or
accident is not eternal but temporary cause, and vanishes with the disappearance of its
cause. But nature that springs up with the formation of a thing is eternal and
remains latent though it is perverted or changed. That in course of time or due to
favourable circumstances, the real nature of a thing assumes its original character, admits
of no doubt. [Jaiva Dharma, p. 6, 1975 edition]

Bhaktivinoda Thakura is describing the nature of the soul. The original nature of the soul is loving service
to Krsna. We have already seen that Bhaktivinoda Thakura accepts this. Here he explains that this original
condition can become perverted by the action of some cause. This cause would be aversion to Krsnas
service. But when this cause is removed, the original nature of the jiva is restored. So when we go back
to Godhead and enter into a relationship of loving service to Krsna, this is nothing new. While we are in
the material world, the original relationship with Krsna remains latent though it is perverted or
changed.

4.2.12 When he forgets Krsna

he is averse to serve Krsna

In Jaiva Dharma, Bhaktivinoda Thakura quotes Lord Caitanya from Caitanya-caritamrta:

The eternal nature of a Jiva is the eternal servanthood of Krsna. A Jiva is the Tatastha
(border line) potency of Krsna and exists simultaneously as a distinct and non-distinct
entity. When he forgets Krsna he is averse to serve Krsna and his aversion has not
beginning as it dates before his incarnation within the four walls of time and space. (Jaiva
Dharma, p. 8)

4.2.13 When he forgets this relationship

he is overwhelmed by the influence of Maya

Service of Sri Krsna is the eternal nature of a Jiva. When he forgets this relationship
he is overwhelmed by the influence of Mayathe deluding potency lying at the
back-ground of the Lord. Thenceforward a Jiva shows his backwardness in the
service of the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. Since the backward condition of a Jiva springs
up along with his coming into this mayaik world, the history of his downfall within the
bounds of time and space is out of the question. Hence the significance of the expression
eternally backward. His eternal function with the service of Sri Krsna has been
perverted since his entrance into the plane of three dimensions due to his forgetfulness.
[Jaiva Dharma, p. 10]

This one paragraph is a perfect statement that answers all of the normal questions about the original state
of the jiva and its downfall. The original condition is service of Sri Krsna. Why is the jiva here in the
material world? He forgets this relationship. Does this mean that Maya is present as a contaminating
influence in the spiritual world? No. First the jiva forgets Krsna, as he is eternally free to do, and only
then he is overwhelmed by the influence of Mayathe deluding potency lying at the back-ground of the
Lord. If the jiva had an original relationship of service to Krsna, then why is he called nitya-baddha.
Since the backward condition of a Jiva springs up along with his coming into this mayaik world, the
history of his downfall within the bounds of time and space is out of the question. Hence the significance
of the expression eternally backward.

4.2.14 The Jiva is eternal and ever-existing,

and his function (dharma) in the form of love for Sri Krsna
is also eternal

In the Absolute Realm of the spirit the time is ever-present. In it there are no such
intervals, corresponding to past and future, which are material time. Jiva and Krsna exist
in that time. For this reason the Jiva is eternal and ever-existing and his function
(dharma) in the form of love for Sri Krsna is also eternal. Subsequent to his
enthrallment in this material world those functions that are incidental to material
time, viz., the creation, formation, fall etc. have been attributed to the Jiva. . . . I am
only stating this proposition. But the sure realisation of the true meaning of this
proposition will be in proportion to the degree of your actual experience of the unalloyed
spiritual existence of the Absolute Realm that you have been enabled to receive. [Jaiva
Dharma, p. 20]

The relationship of mundane to eternal time is undoubtedly difficult. Some will propose that the talk here
of realisation means that the words of the acaryas about the original state of the jiva can be set aside as
incomprehensible. But that is not proper procedure. The words of the acaryas are given for our
understanding, and therefore they cannot be set aside. For example, we hear statements that we are not
these bodies. To truly understand this requires realization. Nevertheless, we can repeat with confidence
the statement that we are not our bodies, we are spirit souls. At each level of realization the statement I
am not this material body remains true. In this case, Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes, The Jiva is eternal
and ever-existing and his function (dharma) in the form of love for Sri Krsna is also eternal. That is the
original condition. Bhaktivinoda Thakura then says, Subsequent to his enthrallment in this material world
those functions that are incidental to material time, viz., the creation, formation, fall etc. have been
attributed to the Jiva. That means that prior to his enthrallment, the natural eternal condition is manifest.
And that has been characterized not as a dormant state, but as function ...in the form of love for Sri
Krsna. So even though we do not have complete realization of this, we can repeat it, confident that it is
true.
4.2.15 Forgetfulness of the reality
that I am Krsnas eternal servant

The root of all actions is the desire for acts, the root of which again is avidya. Avidya is
the name for the forgetfulness of the reality that I am Krsnas eternal servant. This
avidya did not commence within the course of mundane time. That root of karma of the
jiva arose when he was at the juncture (between chit and achit regions). As such, the
beginning of karma is not to be traced within mundane time, and, on that account karma is
beginningless. [Jaiva Dharma, p. 248]

In the first sentence, Bhaktivinoda Thakura expresses a three-part process. This involves actions (karma),
the root of all actions (the desire for acts), and the root of the desire for acts (avidya). Although karma
takes place within the mundane time of the material universe, the root of karma (the desire for acts) is
something that arises outside of mundane time. The cause of this desire is ignorance (avidya). In the
absence of this avidya, the jiva experiences the reality that I am Krsnas eternal servant. Avidya is here
defined as forgetfulness of this reality. So at first the jiva is situated in the reality of eternal service to
Krsna. By forgetfulness of this reality, avidya develops. And from avidya comes the root of karma, the
desire for acts. If this occurs, it occurs at the juncture between the chit (spiritual) and achit (nonspiritual)
regions. Thereafter the soul is placed in the material world, and there the actual process of karma unfolds,
but the root of karma lies beyond mundane time and space.

4.2.16 The worldly course makes its appearance

simultaneously with the Jivas loss
of all recollection of the servitorship of Krsna

The Jiva may possess one of two states. He may be either in the conditioned state or in
the pure spiritual state. In his unconditioned state the Jiva is uneclipsed cognitive
substance. In that state the Jiva has no relationship with nonsentience. Even in his
unalloyed spiritual state the Jiva is infinitesimal, he is liable to undergo change of
condition. The Entity of Krsna is plenary Cognition. He is naturally free from the
possibility of any change in His condition. He is substantively Great, Perfect, Pure, and
Eternal. The Jiva is substantively infinitesimal, part of the Whole, liable to contamination,
and not ultimate. But in respect of his spiritual function the Jiva is great, undivided,
whole, pure, and eternal. As long as the Jiva retains his pure spiritual condition, he
exhibits his spiritual function in his uneclipsed form. When the Jiva is contaminated
by relationship with the eclipsing potency (Maya), only then, by reason of the
perversion of his proper function, he is not fully pure and feels helpless and afflicted
with mundane pleasure and pain. The worldly course makes its appearance
simultaneously with the Jivas loss of all recollection of the servitorship of Krsna.
[Jaiva Dharma, p.12]

Bhaktivinoda Thakura here makes some important points. The first is: The Jiva may possess one of two
states. He may be either in the conditioned state or in the pure spiritual state. There is no mention of any
third state. Some have proposed that there is the conditioned state, the final state of achieving the direct
service of Krsna, and an unknown original state of relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world. This
latter would constitute a third state of the jiva. According to the statements here, however, there is no
such third state. Bhaktivinoda Thakura then states: As long as the Jiva retains his pure spiritual
condition, he exhibits his spiritual function in his uneclipsed form. This indicates a relationship of active
service with Krsna. All in all, this quote contains a clear indication that the jiva was originally engaged in
its eternal function of directly and actively serving Krsna before it made the mistake of turning from
Krsna, at which point the jiva forgets that service and enters the material world to search for enjoyment
there.

4.2.17 So long as the Jiva continues pure,

he cherishes his function as his own

So long as the Jiva continues pure, he cherishes his function as his own. His egoism
then identifies itself with his servitorship of Krsna. His pure egotism, however,
suffers a contraction and assumes various forms when he is defiled by relationship
with Maya. [Jaiva Dharma, pp. 12-13]

4.2.18 Turned away from Krsna

 and as such, became punishable

In his true nature the jiva is the devoted servant of Krsna. The jivas who have gone
astray against that nature of theirs due to their seeking after their own pleasure
turned away from Krsna and, as such, became punishable. [Jaiva Dharma, p. 240]

This list of quotes could easily be expanded. But it is sufficient to make the point that Bhaktivinoda
Thakura was saying the same thing about the origin of the jiva that we always heard from Srila
Prabhupada.

4.3 TEACHINGS OF
BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKURA

4.3.1 Jiva is eternal and is for eternity and without a beginning

joined to the Supreme Lord by the tie of an eternal kinship

Text 20 of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvatis Brahma-samhita is given as follows:

yojayitva tu tany eva

pravivesa svayam guham
guham praviste tasmims tu
jivatma pratibudhyate

By conglomerating all those separate entities He manifested the innumerable mundane

universes and Himself entered into the inmost recess of every extended conglomerate
[virat-vigrahah]. At that time those jivas who had lain dormant during the cataclysm were
awakened.

Text 21 reads:

sa nityo nitya-sambandhah
prakrtis ca paraiva sa

sahthat (jiva); nityaheternal; nitya sambandhahpossessing an eternal relationship;

prakrtihpotency; caand; paraspiritual; evacertainly; sathat.

The same jiva is eternal and is for eternity and without a beginning joined to the
Supreme Lord by the tie of an eternal kinship. He is transcendental spiritual
potency.

Note that the text says the same jiva referring to the jivas who, according to the previous text, are
lying dormant in Maha-Visnu after the annihilation of the material universe in the cycle of repeated
creations and annihilations. This is the jiva that is, according to some, without any previous connection
with Krsna. Yet here Lord Brahma says the same jiva is eternal and is for eternity and without a
beginning joined to the Supreme Lord by the tie of an eternal kinship.
Some might propose that the eternal relationship is with Maha-Visnu. But in the purport to text 21 it
becomes clear that the relationship is with Krsna. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta says:
 Just as the sun is eternally associated with his rays, so the transcendental Supreme Lord is
eternally joined with the jivas. . . . That eternal relationship consists in this, that the
Supreme Lord is the eternal master and jivas are His eternal servants. Jivas also have
sufficient eligibility in respect of the mellow quality of the Divinity. Apareyam itas tv
anyam prakrtim viddhi me param. By this verse of the Gita it is made known that jivas
are His transcendental potency . . . . This potency has another name, viz., tatastha or
marginal potency, being located on the line demarcating the sphere of spiritual and
mundane potencies. He is susceptible to the influence of the material energy owing to his
small magnitude. But so long as he remains submissive to Krsna, the Lord of Maya, he
is not liable to the influence of Maya. The worldly afflictions, births and rebirths are the
concomitants of the fettered condition of souls fallen into the clutches of the deluding
potency from a time that has no beginning.

So let us review the main points in the just-quoted purport by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta: 1. the jiva is the
eternal servant of Krsna; 2. the jiva is fit to engage in rasa with the Lord; 3. the jiva is the marginal
potency, and is susceptible to the influence of the material energy; 4. so long as he remains submissive
to Krsna . . . he is not liable to the influence of Maya. This indicates that the original position is eternal
submission and service to Krsna, free of Maya, and that it is possible to remain in that position, although
one is susceptible to fall. 5. If one becomes unsubmissive, then one falls into the clutches of the deluding
potency. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta states that the fallen condition of the jiva in the material world dates
from a time that has no beginning. This means that the change of consciousness that results in the jiva
falling into the clutches of the deluding potency takes place outside the bounds of material time and
space. It is only in this sense that the fallen condition of the jiva is without beginning. In text 21 we have
seen the conditioned jiva described as nitya-sambandhah, possessing an eternal relationship with Krsna.

4.3.2 When jivas begotten of the marginal potency (tatastha-sakti) forget the service of Krsna,
they are confined
in the mundane prison house

In Srila Bhaktisiddhantas purport to text 44 of Brahma-samhita we read:

When jivas begotten of the marginal potency (tatastha-sakti) forget the service of
Krsna, they are confined in the mundane prison house, the citadel of Durga. . . .
When, luckily, the forgetfulness of Govinda on the part of the imprisoned jivas is remarked
by them by coming in contact with self-realized souls and their natural aptitude for the
loving service of Krsna is aroused, Durga herself then becomes the agency of their
deliverance by the will of Govinda. . . . Jiva is a spiritual atomic part of Krsna. When he
forgets his service of Krsna he is at once deflected by the attracting power of Maya
in this world, who throws him into the whirlpool of mundane fruitive activity (karma) by
confining him in a gross body constituted by the five material elements.

It is said of the jiva: when he forgets his service of Krsna he is at once deflected by the attracting power
of Maya. The indication is that the jiva is originally engaged in service, forgets Krsna, and then is
imprisoned by Maya.
Here follow some quotations from Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, a collection of writings by Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati published by the Gaudiya Math.
 4.3.3. Enjoy, cease to enjoy and go back to his original position

The position of the jiva is a part of the Tatastha-Shakti (Marginal Potency) that can
enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position. [Shri Chaitanyas
Teachings, p. 101]

Those who want to interpret the term nitya-baddha to mean that the conditioned jiva has never had any
developed relationship with Krsna are going to have some problems with this last statement. But there it
is. The jiva can enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position.

4.3.4 When we show our diffidence to serve the Absolute

But as our souls are eternal, we cannot consider that the futile external body as well as the
internal temporary body are identical with the soul. They are incorporated later on by the
abuse of our independent will. When we abuse that free will, or when we show our
diffidence to serve the Absolute, the Over-soul, we think we are to dominate over Nature
and Natural Phenomena. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 102]

4.3.5 We want to go back to our eternal Abode

This world is a perverted reflection of the original, which is our real home. Instead of
passing our time here, we want to go back to our eternal Abode. [Shri Chaitanyas
Teachings, p. 111]

4.3.6 Liberation is nothing but going back

to the original position,
that is, offering our services to the Eternal Being

But we have got our own position in the intermediate land, that is, the land between
Chit and Achit; and we call that plane Tatastha. Some human souls are conditioned
and some are liberated. Liberation is nothing but going back to the original position,
that is, offering our services to the Eternal Being. . . . Why have we come to this
place? It is so because we have exercised our free will on a particular level and we
have been abusing our free will to turn kartas [doers]. In other words, we have
taken an initiative to enjoy this world and we have thereby submitted to the trap, or rather
to the laws of karma. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 116]

This quote shows that although the jiva-sakti living entities have an intermediate position, from which
they can always choose matter or spirit, the original position is service to Krsna. This is not so hard to
understand. In computer word processing programs there are various functions that can be toggled on or
off, such as hyphenation. But the default, or original position, might be hyphenation on. You are always
free to turn the hyphenation off or back on, but the original position, in this example, is on. Therefore,
it can be said that although your choosing function is always in an intermediate position, from which it
can turn hyphenation on or off, the system itself must always be either hyphenation on or hyphenation
off. But the original, or default, condition is hyphenation on. The same is true of the soul. The
choosing function of the soul is always in an intermediate position, from which it can choose to serve its
own senses or the senses of Krsna, but the original, or default, position is service to Krsna. If this position
is changed to one of serving ones senses, one becomes conditioned. Liberation, as Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati clearly states, is simply going back to the original condition of service to Krsna.

4.3.7 We can go back to the higher Rasa

Rasas are drinks which are relished by the souls eternal senses, and these have
denominations different from those that are presented to us for a few hours or a few days.
This worldly Rasa is not ever-lasting. But the eternal Rasa, which is not allied to
ignorance, presents no miserable face, no vanishing signs, like the Rasa of this mundane
world. . . . [W]e can go back to the higher Rasa if we are anxious to be eternal
Rasikas. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 120]

4.3.8 The eternal friend servitor

will regain his position as such

The following statements were made by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in Chpater IV of Shri Chaitanyas
Teachings, entitled Explorations in Vedantic Truth:

The Transcendental Sound becomes his sole engagement, he having secured the position
of setting himself free from the egoistic exploitation of the phenomenal plane. Such a
position would offer him the conception of the Absolute, to Whom his only duty would be
to offer his eternal services. This stage is known as regaining the true function after
the expiry of his term of imprisonment as an enjoyer. Now he is in his proper health
to engage himself as the eternal servitor of the Absolute, knowing his own
position. . . . The Consort Absolute will wait for the consort servitor. The parent servitor
will meet the Child Absolute, the object of his or her only engagement. The eternal friend
servitor will regain his position as such. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 193]

Was the original position of the jiva a direct relationship of service to Krsna in the spiritual world? It is
hard to imagine a more direct positive statement than that given here. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta says that
liberation is known as regaining the true function after the expiry of his term of imprisonment as an
enjoyer. And to make it even more explicit, he says, The eternal friend servitor will regain his position
as such.
 4.3.9 It is the jivas who are the attendants in His sports

It is the jivas who are the attendants in His [Krsnas] sports. They become attached
to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their
desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul of a jiva gains true wisdom of the
transcendental region of God, he begins to get back his pure essential nature
gradually. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 323]

Concerning the original relationship of the soul with Krsna, here Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati confirms that
the jivas were originally attendants in His sports. And we can get back this pure essential nature
gradually. The final state is the same as the original state. This rules out the suggestion that in our
original relationship with Krsna we were situated in something less than an active relationship of service.

4.3.10 Whenever he chooses deliberately

not to serve the Absolute,
he thereby ipso facto loses this natural or free state

The subjection of the soul to the laws of a foreign mistress is the result of his own
deliberate choice. He can easily revert to the state of free existence by the exercise of the
same freedom of choice. . . . The soul is a tiny particle of the Universal-Soul. By his
constitution he is subject to the spiritual power of the Divinity, of which he is a constituent
part. When he chooses to function in his own position in the spiritual system and in
subordination to the laws of the spiritual realm, he is constitutionally free. Whenever
he chooses deliberately not to serve the Absolute, he thereby ipso facto loses this
natural or free state and is compelled to submit to the Divine Will under pressure.
This thralldom he learns to prefer to real freedom by the tricks of the illusory Energy of
Godhead Maya, which creates a world by the Will of Godhead in which Godhead makes
Himself invisible for the benefit of the jiva. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, pp. 447-448]

4.3.11 It is not good to be enticed to stay here for a long time,

forgetting our original abode

This world is not our original abode. It is meant for certain purposes. After that we
are to proceed to our original home. This world is not a desirable place. It is not
good to be enticed to stay here for a long time, forgetting our original abode. We stay
there with Godhead. We are the eternal servants of Godhead. When we desire to
lord it over the universes we are allowed these facilities for temporary purposes.
They do not serve our eternal purposes. . . . We should better go back to our own
position, to our only Friend. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 493]

4.3.12 When we want to deprive our Lord

It is only when we deem it fit to come down to this world to lord it over other finite
entities for our enjoyment that our real position happens to be forgotten to some
extent. This contingency happens when we want to deprive our Lord. That tendency
 was innate with us. It led us to prefer this temporal region by our own desire. [Shri
Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 496]

4.3.13 The members of this potency

are apt to be forgetful of their eternal situation

The eternal and temporal potencies have got their two realms, and on the border of the
two, the borderland potency can easily be traced. The members of the border-land potency
can claim one of the two potencies at a time, which are doublewinged places of their
habitation. . . . The border-land potency can be traced to exhibit her neutral position,
which is normal and does not espouse at that time the cause of temporal or eternal
manifestation of the Fountain-head. The members of this potency are apt to be
forgetful of their eternal situation when they have stronger affinity to live in this
temporal region as lords and by their inherent free-will want to not submit to their
eternal functions of the transcendence. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 534]

The essential points are as follows. (1) There are two divisions to the total manifestation of the Lords
potencythe eternal realm and the temporal realm. (2) There is a potency situated at their border. This
border has been described as imaginary, like the border between land and water on a beach. (3) Although
this potency is at the border, its members must be in one or the other of the two realms at any one time.
(4) One can nevertheless trace out within the borderline potency an element that is neutrally situated.
Points 3 and 4 may seem contradictory, but the example of a person operating a light switch may offer a
crude analogy. The light switch itself must be either on or off. There is no third, in-between state. But the
free will of the operator of the switch is always poised at the juncture of the two possibilities, such that it
can turn the switch from on to off, from off to on, or allow it to remain on or off. In other words, the free
will of the operator is always neutrally situated although the light itself must always be either on or off.
And we further know that the original state is on. As for the soul, it must be in either the eternal or the
temporary realm, but its capacity for free will is always in a neutral position that enables it to change or
maintain the current position of the soul. The original position is devotional service to Krsna. (5)
Sometimes a soul may forget this original position. (6) This happens when the soul decides not to submit
to this original function of eternal service. (7) When that happens, the soul develops a desire to lord it
over matter in the temporal realm and is given the chance to do so.

4.3.14 His original function

of remembering his own eternal exploits

The absolute infinitesimal has got his free will, and by his free will he can either pose
himself as a forgetful agent or can awaken himself for his original function of
remembering his own eternal exploits. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 535]

4.3.15 The individual souls serve Shri Krsna

as constituents of Shri Radhika

Shri Radhika is the Source of all individual souls, whose function is to be employed in the
service of Shri Krsna by the alternative methods [of] loyal conscious submission,
neutrality, or actual opposition. The individual souls serve Shri Krsna as constituents
of Shri Radhika. When they forget that they are constituents of Shri Radhika, they
 forget the nature of their own selves and engage in the abnormal activities of the
mundane plane. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 615]

In this revealing passage, we learn that the original position of the soul is to serve Krsna as a constituent
of Sri Radhika. Only when they forget this do they engage in the abnormal activities of the mundane
plane.

4.3.16 The connection of jiva with Shiva and mahamaya . . .

is established only when he is disassociated from the service of Shri Radha-Krsna

Shiva and mahamaya are closely connected with the jiva. But the connection of jiva
with Shiva and mahamaya . . . is established only when he is disassociated from the
service of Shri Radha-Krsna. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 619]

So it would appear that Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and Srila Bhaktivinoda
Thakura are in agreement on the fundamental pointsthat the jiva now in the conditioned state is
originally the eternal servant of Krsna in the direct and active sense of the word. Nevertheless, the jiva,
being marginal, has the ability to make a choice. The conditioned jiva is a jiva that has made a deliberate
choice to leave the service of Krsna. The state of conditioning is called eternal because the choice that led
to it was made before the jivas entrance into material space-time. By the same free will that brought it to
the material world, the jiva may literally regain its original position of service.
Here we have given only a few of many such passages by Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati that could be cited. Is it possible to find some apparently obscure or enigmatic passages from
which one can derive a conclusion other than that described above? Yes, it is possible. But if such
conclusions are accepted, it can only be at the expense of giving up the direct meaning of the very explicit
statements given above. And one would also have to give up the many explicit statements by Srila
Prabhupada that are in exact agreement with those given above. And one would also have to give up
many direct statements found in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, as cataloged in the previous sections.

4.4 TEACHINGS OF
THE MADHVA SAMPRADAYA

From several sources I have heard that the representatives of the Madhva sampradaya hold that the spirit
souls now in this material world are eternally conditioned, in the strict sense of never having been
engaged in a direct relationship of service to Krsna. We have already seen that Srila Prabhupada, Srila
Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati have rejected this position. The current
representatives of the Madhva sampradaya also have a very elaborate theory that the conditioned souls
are eternally conditioned in one of the three modes of nature. I have not looked too deeply into these
matters, as Srila Prabhupada has clearly explained things in another way. Also, in Shri Chaitanyas
Teachings Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati has said:

In as much as unwholesomeness in the shape of a doctrine of pervertibility would

tend to be prominent if the theory of the jiva being a constituent part of the
substantive Reality Himself as found in the writings of Shri Madhvacarya were
accepted, Shri Gaursundar has approved the doctrine of Shakti (Potency) as
 propounded by Shri Lakshman Desika (Ramanuja). . . . The jiva is a differentiated
part of the potency of the substantive Reality. [Shri Chaitanyas Teachings, p. 64]

Without getting into all the technicalities, we can see that according to Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Lord
Caitanya did not accept the Madhva concept of the soul. Indeed, in the Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya-
lila 9.277), Lord Caitanya Himself says of the Madhvas: The only qualification that I see in your
sampradaya is that you accept the form of the Lord as truth. I intend here no disrespect to the
worshipful Madhva sampradaya, but wish only to point out a philosophical difference about the nature of
the soul.

4.5. TEACHINGS OF JIVA GOSWAMI

There is nothing in the teachings of Jiva Goswami that contradicts Srila Prabhupadas statements that the
conditioned souls now in this material world originally existed in a direct relationship of service with
Krsna in a spiritual planet in the spiritual world. The main points to consider are the following:

1. Even the advocates of the no fall position admit that Jiva Goswami makes no statement of the kind
the conditioned souls now in this material world were never in a spiritual planet with Krsna, engaged in
His service.

2. Jiva Goswami does make statements, citing Vedic literature, that the residents of Vaikuntha do not fall
down. But Srila Prabhupada has given us a way to understand these statements. The conditioned souls do
not in fact fall down. Srila Prabhupada emphasizes this point again and again in his Tokyo lecture, cited
above. The conditioned souls merely think that they have fallen. When we take this approach, given by
Srila Prabhupada himself, we can see that all the statements of both Srila Prabhupada and Jiva Goswami
are true. Yes, the conditioned souls now in this material world were originally with Krsna in Vaikuntha.
They are dreaming they are fallen, but actually they are not fallen. This solves the problem very nicely.
Advocates of the no fall position have to account for the fact that Srila Prabhupada often said the
conditioned souls have come from a direct relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world. They do this by
saying Srila Prabhupada made these philosophically incorrect statements as a preaching strategy. The
weakness of this approach is that Srila Prabhupada never announced this preaching strategy in any of his
books, recorded lectures, conversations, or letters. On the other hand, Srila Prabhupada did give a way to
understand how the fallen souls have not really fallen.

3. Furthermore, the statements by Jiva Goswami in the Bhagavat-sandarbha about no one falling from
Vaikuntha are made in the explicitly stated context of comparing the Vaikuntha planets to the heavenly
planets. Jiva Goswami does not apply these statements to the origin of the jivas now in this material
world. In the places where Jiva Goswami does directly address the question of the fall of the jiva, the
texts he cites indicate the original position was one of service to Krsna.

4. Another weakness of the no fall advocates is this. Interpreting Jiva Goswami according to their view
of things, the spirit souls in this material world cannot have come from planets in the spiritual world, or
from a direct relationship of service to Krsna. So where did they come from? The advocates have
proposed a version of the brahmajyoti theory. But Jiva Goswami does not say that the spirit souls now in
this material world were originally situated in the brahmajyoti. Furthermore, Srila Prabhupada has
directly rejected this proposal in his famous crow-and-tal fruit message. In fact, Jiva Goswami, when he
directly addresses the question of the jivas original position, says the same thing we always heard from
Srila Prabhupada. We were originally Krsnas servants.
With these points in mind, we can now proceed with a more detailed examination of the evidence from
Jiva Goswamis Sandarbhas.

4.5.1 SRI BHAGAVAT-SANDARBHA

4.5.1.1 No one falls from Vaikuntha?

How are we to understand the many statements in Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha that say in various ways no
one falls from Vaikuntha? I suggest that it is important to understand the context in which these
statements were made. Indeed, in text 12 of Anuccheda 177 of Sri Krsna-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami
himself says that the Vedic literatures must be understood according to their context.
In text 7 of Anuccheda 63 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, preceding almost all of the statements about no
one falling from Vaikuntha, Jiva Goswami gives the context for them:

At this point someone may object: Is it not so that in Svargaloka or any other
planet both the objects of enjoyment and the enjoyers of those objects will
eventually be destroyed. Is this not true also for the devotees and their object of
enjoyment?

This shows that when Jiva Goswami was introducing statements about Vaikuntha, he was doing it
to counteract this specific objection. In any other planet the objects of enjoyment and the enjoyers of
those objects will eventually be destroyed. It must happen. They must be destroyed. But this is not true
in Vaikuntha. There is never any inherent reason for the situation of eternal enjoyment to change. The
only reason is the causeless misuse of independence by the soul.
So in the quotes in this section of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami is answering the objection
given above. The nature of Vaikuntha is eternal. The residents of Vaikuntha are eternal. But none of this
rules out the possibility of a soul misusing its inherent spiritual quality of free will. When this happens, the
natural opulences of the soul are covered but not destroyed. In addition, Srila Prabhupada has said that in
reality no one falls from Vaikuntha. Krsna simply creates a situation where we think we are fallen. It is
like a person lying on his bed and dreaming he is somewhere else. Actually he never leaves his bed. Given
all these considerations, it is not necessary to propose that the many statements by Srila Prabhupada, Srila
Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati that we were originally with Krsna in the
spiritual world are simply preaching strategies that do not reflect the actual truth.
In short, the quotes given by Jiva Goswami about Vaikuntha simply affirm the eternal spiritual nature of
the Vaikuntha planets and the eternal spiritual nature of the residents who remain there absorbed in
Krsnas service. These qualities distinguish Vaikuntha from the heavenly planets, where the objects of
enjoyment and the enjoyers will eventually be destroyed. The heavenly planets are material and thus
temporary, and the bodies of the demigods are also material and thus temporary. In the course of time, the
heavenly planets and bodies of the demigods are destroyed. But the Vaikuntha planets are never
destroyed, and the spiritual bodies of the residents of Vaikuntha are never destroyed (although they may
be temporarily covered if the residents misuse their independence). In this section of the Bhagavat-
sandarbha Jiva Goswami is not, however, directly addressing the nature of the marginal potency
and its ability to misuse its spiritual quality of free will. But, as we shall see, this topic does come
up in other sections of the Sandarbhas, and there we hear from Jiva Goswami what we have heard
so many times from Srila Prabhupada. We were originally with Krsna in His abode, but we have
misused our independence. Therefore we find ourselves in the material world, deprived of our original
spiritual opulences. But by Krsna consciousness we can go back home, back to Godhead.
 4.5.1.2 Regaining your natural position

In text 5 of Anuccheda 4 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.11.30.

In this text, Manu says to Dhruva Maharaja:

Regaining your natural position and rendering service unto the Supreme Lord
(Bhagavan), who is the all-powerful reservoir of all pleasure and who lives in all living
entities, you will very soon forget the illusory understanding of I and mine.

This translation is Srila Prabhupadas, and he directly refers to the soul regaining its natural position of
rendering service to the Lord. Others might wish to translate this text differently, but I will prefer to stick
with Srila Prabhupadas translation, and I assume that Jiva Goswami would find no fault in it.

4.5.1.3 The pure spirit souls,

who are His marginal potencies

In text 1 of Anuccheda 16 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.3.37.

The last line of this text is:

brahmaiva bhati sad asac ca tayoh param yat

The translation give by Hridayananda Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

Brahman, which is the source of all subtle and gross manifestations, is simultaneously
transcendental to them, being absolute.

In text 2 of Anuccheda 16, Jiva Goswami gives this further explanation of the word param in the above
quoted Bhagavatam text:

param svarupa-vaibhavam sri-vaikuntha-rupam tatasthah-vaibhavam suddha-jiva

rupa ca, anyatha tat-tad-bhavasiddhih.

Here Jiva Goswami says that param means the Lords personal internal potency, which is the spiritual
planets of Vaikuntha, and the pure spirit souls, who are His marginal potencies. He adds, Any
conception that contradicts this is in error. The marginal potency is described as being param and
composed of suddha-jivas, or pure spirit souls. This is quite in line with Srila Prabhupadas many
statements that we are originally Krsna conscious beings, eternal servants of Krsna.
In text 3 of Anuccheda 16 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami gives a further explanation of the
words tayoh param in the Bhagavatam text cited above. Jiva Goswami interprets this text as an
explanation of the Lords many potencies. After describing some of the material potencies, Jiva Goswami
says:

These sat and asat potencies are material in nature. Above them (tayoh param) is the
supreme goal of life, the spiritual Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is known as
Bhagavan and who is accompanied by His potencies. Also above them is the spiritual
living entity, who is known as jiva (suddha-jiva-akhyam), and who, because He
follows the Lord (tat-anugatattvat), is pure.
So according to these explanations of Jiva Goswami, the tatastha-sakti (marginal potency) is one of the
superior spiritual potencies of the Lord, and is of the same nature as Vaikuntha itself. It is composed of
pure jivas who naturally follow the Lord. This is what we have always heard from Srila Prabhupada,
namely that we are all originally Krsna conscious beings. In text 19 of Anuccheda 16, the jivas are also
described as suddha, or pure spiritual beings, whereas the inhabitants of the brahmajyoti are elsewhere
described as avisuddha-buddhayah, having impure intelligence (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.32).
In text 4 of Anuccheda 16 of Sri-Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami goes on to explain, The false ego
covers the awareness of the pure individual soul (jivam), which is one of the Lords spiritual potencies.

4.5.1.4 The individual soul becomes bereft

of his natural spiritual opulences

In text 1 of Anuccheda 25 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam

10.87.38. Here follows an excerpt from the translation to this text given by Srila Prabhupada in Krsna:
The Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the chapter on the prayers of the personified Vedas.

When there is cosmic manifestation, the jivatma, or the individual soul, appears in the
creation in different forms, according to his previous fruitive activities, and due to his long
forgetfulness of real existence, he identifies himself with a particular form awarded to him
by the laws of material nature....While he is enwrapped in such ignorance, his natural
opulences, although existing in minute quantity, become almost extinct.

The Sanskrit for this part of the text is:

sa yad ajaya tv ajam anusayita gunams ca jusan

bhajati svarupatam tad anu mrtyum apeta-bhagah

In text 2 of Anuccheda 25, Jiva Goswami cites Sridhara Swamis commentary on this text. Sridhara
Swami says:

In this verse the word sah means the individual spirit soul. Yat means because. ajaya
means by the material energy maya, ajam means ignorance, anusayita means
embraces, gunams ca means the material body and senses, jusan means serving, or
considering the material body as the self, svarupatam jusan apeta-bhagah means
absorbed in the material energy, the individual soul becomes bereft of his natural
spiritual opulences, such as bliss and knowledge, mrtyum means the material realm
of birth and death, [and] bhajati means attains.

But the position of the Lord is different. The last part of Bhagavatam text 10.87.38 is:

The distinction between You and the conditioned soul is that You maintain Your natural
opulences, known as sad-aisvarya, asta-siddhi, and asta-guna.

So the indication from Jiva Goswami, Sridhara Swami, Srila Prabhupada, and the Bhagavatam
(which Jiva Goswami calls the highest evidence) is that the jiva in its original position was actively
displaying its spiritual opulences. In the brahmajyoti, there is no display of such opulences, since
the brahmajyoti is an impersonal state devoid of personal opulences. Sridhara Swami calls these
opulences ananda-adibliss and others. This indicates variety. So what happens? Because of
forgetfulness of his original position, the jiva is covered by the material energy. The distinction between
the Lord and the living entity is that the conditioned living entity cannot maintain his spiritual opulences
in the material world whereas the Lord can. All of this is perfectly in line with what we have repeatedly
heard from Srila Prabhupada, namely that we are originally Krsna conscious living beings but due to
forgetfulness our real spiritual nature has been covered. But we can go back to our original position in the
spiritual world.

4.5.1.5 Ones own home,

where the Supreme Personality of Godhead lives

That a spiritual planet in Vaikuntha is our original home is made clear in Anuccheda 71 of Sri Bhagavat-
sandarbha. In text 1 of Anuccheda 71, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.29.48, wherein Narada
Muni says:

Those who are less intelligent accept the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies as all in all. They do
not know that the purpose of the Vedas is to understand ones own home, where the
Supreme Personality of Godhead lives. Not being interested in their real homes, they are
illusioned and search after other homes.

The translation is by Srila Prabhupada. The Sanskrit is:

svam lokam na vidus te vai

yatra devo janardanah
ahur dhumra-dhiyo vedam
sakarmakam atad-vidah

In text 2 of Anuccheda 71 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha Jiva Goswami says:

In this verse Narada Muni says, Those who are less intelligent (dhumra-dhiyah) accept
(ahuh) the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies (veda sa-karmakam) as all in all. They know of
Svargaloka and the other planets in the material universe, but they do not know
that the purpose of the Vedas is to understand ones own home (svam lokam) where
(yatra) the Supreme Personality of Godhead (janardanah) lives.

4.5.1.6 The fault of ignorance,

which makes the living entity forget
the Supreme Personality of Godhead

In text 6 of Anuccheda 100 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam

10.87.14, which is one of the prayers of the personified Vedas.

jaya jaya jahy ajam ajita dosa-grbhita-gunam

tvam asi yad atmana samavaruddha-samasta-bhagah
aga-jagad-okasam akhila-sakty-avabodhaka te
kvacid ajayatmana ca carato nucaren nigamah

The translation given by Srila Prabhupada in Krsna: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the chapter
Prayers by the Personified Vedas, is (in part):
 All the living entities, being Your parts and parcels, are naturally joyful, eternal, and full
of knowledge, but due to their own faults they imitate You by trying to become the
supreme enjoyer. Thus they disobey Your supremacy and become offenders. And because
of their offenses, Your material energy has taken charge of them. Thus their transcendental
qualities of joyfulness, bliss, and wisdom have been covered by the clouds of the three
material qualities.

In text 12 of Anuccheda 100 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami comments on this text of the
Bhagavatam. The most relevant part is his discussion of the words dosa-grbhita-guna. Jiva Goswami
says:

Dosa here is the fault of ignorance, which makes the living entity forget the Supreme
Personality of Godhead [atma-vismrti].

Forgetting implies that the knowledge of the Supreme Lord was once there. This is what we have always
heard from Srila Prabhupada, namely that we were once with Krsna but we have simply forgotten Him.
By Krsna consciousness, we can regain our original relationship with Krsna.

4.5.1.7 The material ignorance potency

makes the conditioned souls in the material world
forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead

In text 6 of Anuccheda 103 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami discusses the potencies of the
Supreme Lord, as they are listed in Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.39.55. Jiva Goswami says:

The pastime potency is divided into knowledge and ignorance potencies. The ignorance
potency, which makes one forget the Supreme Lords powers and opulences, brought the
bliss of ecstatic love to Krsnas mother (Yasoda). In the same way, it also bewildered the
gopis, as is described in the Gopala-tapani Upanisad. This will be described in detail at
the proper time. The material ignorance potency makes the conditioned souls in the
material world forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It covers their true
knowledge.

The Sanskrit used by Jiva Goswami for the last part of this statement is:

sah bhedah samsarinam sva-svarupa-vismrty-adi-hetur avaranatmaka-vrtti-visesa.

The word vismrti, is a clear reference to forgetfulness, and forgetfulness means that there is some original
knowledge that has been forgotten. It is also said that the ignorance potency covers the true knowledge
of the soul. This is what we have always heard from Srila Prabhupada. We were originally Krsna
conscious, but we have forgotten this. It is simply a question of remembering our original condition.

4.5.2 SRI PARAMATMA-SANDARBHA

In the Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami explicitly discusses the nature of the marginal potency.
Evidence discussed in this section is thus explicitly in the context of the marginal potencys
characteristics.
 4.5.2.1 By nature pure

In text 4 of Anuccheda 1 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami describes the jiva as suddho pi
mayatah parah: by nature pure, that is to say beyond the touch of the illusory potency.
This answers the suggestion that some jivas are by nature impure, i.e., eternally fallen.

4.5.2.2The individual soul . . . is,

in his original spiritual nature, a servant of Lord Hari

In text 2 of Anuccheda 19 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says the individual spirit soul is
the marginal potency of the Supreme Lord. From the Uttara-khanda of the Padma Purana he then cites
several verses describing the nature of the soul. The most important of these is cited in text 5 of
Anuccheda 19:

makarenocyate jivah
ksetrajnah paravan sada
dasa-bhuto harer eva
nanyasyaiva kadacana

In the sacred syllable om, the letter m stands for the individual spirit soul. The
individual soul is the knower of the field of activities. He is transcendental, and he is,
in his original spiritual nature, a servant of Lord Hari. He is not a servant of anyone
else.

The most important point is that the jiva is originally a servant of Lord Hari. It is here that Jiva
Goswami is directly discussing the original nature of the jiva, and not in the parts of the Bhagavat-
sandarbha where he discusses the distinction between the residents of Vaikuntha and the residents of the
heavenly planets. The Bhagavat-sandarbha sections about Vaikuntha do not say anything at all about the
conditioned souls and their original position and so cannot be used as direct evidence for that question. It
is the statements of Jiva Goswami that directly deal with the original position of the jiva that can best be
used in this connection.
In text 7 of Anuccheda 19, Jiva Goswami cites Jamata Muni, who says of the jiva:

He has his own original spiritual form, which is full of spiritual knowledge and
bliss.

And in text 8 of Anuccheda 19, Jiva Goswami cites an additional text by Jamata Muni, who says
of the jiva:

He is an individual person, different from other persons. He is atomic in size. He is

eternally pure (nitya-nirmalah). In his original spiritual nature he is a knower, a
doer, and an enjoyer (tatha jnatrtva-kartrtva-bhoktrtva-nija-dharmakah). Eternally,
he is part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Here we learn that the soul is originally a knower, doer, and enjoyer. Thus the original position cannot be
in the brahmajyoti. One might propose that while these characteristics represent the real nature of the
soul, they will be revealed only for the first time after the eternally conditioned soul achieves Krsna
consciousness. But this reading defies the normal use of language and logic, as well as the teachings of
the major acaryas in our line.

4.5.2.3 The ignorance that covers their true knowledge

In text 5 of Anuccheda 22, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.5, which says that the
conditioned souls are illusioned by the knowledge-covering feature of the illusory energy. In text 7, Jiva
Goswami cites Bhagavad-gita 5.15: Embodied beings are bewildered, however, because of the
ignorance that covers their true knowledge. This indicates that originally living beings had true
knowledge of their relationship with Krsna, unless one wants to say that true knowledge means some
kind of impersonal spiritual awareness.

4.5.2.4 The individual soul

becomes bereft of his natural spiritual opulences

In text 1 of Anuccheda 23 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami again cites Srimad-Bhagavatam

10.87.38, which he cited in text 1 of Anuccheda 25 of Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha. Since Jiva Goswami
thought this text and the accompanying commentary by Sridhara Swami were important enough to
include twice, I will also include them again, since they help define exactly what the illusory energy (as
mentioned just above) is covering. Here follows an excerpt from the translation to Srimad-Bhagavatam
10.87.38. given by Srila Prabhupada in Krsna: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the chapter on
the prayers of the personified Vedas.

When there is cosmic manifestation, the jivatma, or the individual soul, appears in the
creation in different forms, according to his previous fruitive activities, and due to his long
forgetfulness of real existence, he identifies himself with a particular form awarded to him
by the laws of material nature. . . . While he is enwrapped in such ignorance, his natural
opulences, although existing in minute quantity, become almost extinct.

The translation by Hridayananda Goswami and Gopiparanadhana reads:

The illusory material nature attracts the minute living entity to embrace her, and as a
result he assumes forms composed of her qualities. Subsequently, he loses all of his
spiritual qualities and must undergo repeated deaths.

The Sanskrit for this part of the text is:

sa yad ajaya tv ajam anusayita gunams ca jusan
bhajati sarupatam tad anu mrtyum apeta-bhagah

In text 2 of Anuccheda 23 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami again cites Sridhara Swamis
commentary on this text. Here I reproduce Kusakratha Prabhus translation of this same commentary
from Sri Bhagavat-sandarbha:

Sridhara Swami says: In this verse the word sah means the individual spirit soul, yat
means because, ajaya means by the material energy, maya, ajam means ignorance,
anusayita means embraces, gunams ca means the material body and senses, jusan
means serving, or considering the material body as the self, svarupatam jusan apeta-
bhagah means absorbed in the material energy, the individual soul becomes bereft of his
 natural spiritual opulences, such as bliss and knowledge, mrtyum means the material
realm of birth and death, [and] bhajati means attains.

The point to note is this: what is being covered are the natural spiritual opulences of the living entity. This
indicates that the original position was one in which these opulences were displayed. That cannot have
been in the brahmajyoti, because there are no variegated personal opulences displayed there, nor can it
have been in some hypothetical dormant state apart from Krsnas pastimes. In text 1 of Anuccheda 28 of
Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says the soul is manifested from the Lords internal potency.

4.5.2.6 The pure soul enters the material world

In text 1 of Anuccheda 29 of Sri-Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says:

When that blissful spiritual consciousness (anandatmake) is pervertedly reflected in

material consciousness, the individual soul thinks, I will not act for Your benefit
(yusmad-arthatvam na bhavati). I will act only for my benefit (asmad-arthatvam
eva). In this way, the individual soul comes under the grip of materialistic false ego.
Thus influenced by false ego, the pure soul enters the material world (suddha atma
prakrty-avesah).

In text 2 of Anuccheda 29 of Sri-Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites in this connection Srimad-

Bhagavatam 3.26.6.

evam parabhidhyanena
kartrtvam prakrteh puman
karmasu kriyamanesu
gunair atmani manyate
Srila Prabhupadas translation is:

Because of his forgetfulness, the transcendental living entity accepts the influence of
material energy as his field of activities, and thus actuated, he wrongly applies the activities
to himself.

In text 3 of Anuccheda 29 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami gives this commentary:

Here the word parabhidhyanena means by entering the material world and thinking I am
made of matter. In this way the transcendental living entity accepts the influence of
material energy as his field of activities, and thus actuated, he wrongly applies the activities
to himself. A person who is free of false ego does not think in this way. Only when a
person is covered by materialistic false ego does he think in this way. A soul who is
convinced of his spiritual identity has no reason to enter the material world. That is
clear.

The last two sentences are important. The Sanskrit of Jiva Goswami for them is:

suddha-rupa-matra-nisthatvanbecause of confidence in the spiritual form; na

not; samsaraof the material world; hetuhcause; spastamclear.

The indication is that the soul has an original spiritual identity as servant of Krsna. If one is convinced of
this, one has no reason to enter the material world. If one is not convinced, one enters the material
world and is covered by false ego. This is what we have always heard from Srila Prabhupada. The soul
has free will. If it properly uses its free will, it remains in the spiritual world with Krsna. If it misuses its
free will, it comes to the material world.

4.5.2.7 In his original constitutional position

In text 19 of Anuccheda 37 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says:

When he becomes free from ignorance and situated in his original constitutional position,
the soul is said to be liberated. In this liberated condition his spiritual nature is like that of
the Lord Himself.

The Sanskrit is:

ata evavidya-vimoksa-purvaka-svarupavasthiti-laksanayam muktau tal-linasya tat-

sadharmyapattir bhavati

The word meanings are: ata evatherefore; avidyaignorance; vimoksaliberation; purvakabefore;

svarupaown form; avasthitisituation; laksanayamin the nature; muktauliberated; tal-linasya
merged into Him; tat-sadharmyapattihattainment of His nature; bhavatiis.
The words purvaka-svarupavasthiti indicate that the original constitutional position was in fact
experienced in the past, before the soul entered the conditioned state. The souls state after liberation is
thus the same as the souls state before the soul became conditioned. This state is described as being of
the same nature as that of the Lord, who displays various opulences. We can therefore conclude that the
soul, before it became conditioned, was displaying opulences, just as it will after final liberation.
 4.5.2.8 In his original spiritual nature
he is a knower, a doer, and an enjoyer

In texts 2-4 of Anuccheda 45 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam

3.25.16-18, in which Lord Kapila describes the nature of the soul. Then in text 5 of Anuccheda 45, Jiva
Goswami says, in part:

The meaning of these verses is clear. These verses are explained by Jamata Muni in the
passage quoted in this book in Anuccheda 19, texts 6-8. The soul described in the first of
these Srimad-Bhagavatam verses is explained to be nitya-nirmala (eternally pure) in the
parallel passage of Jamata Muni. The word atmanam (the self) in the second of these
Srimad-Bhagavatam verses is explained to be aham-arthah (conscious of his identity as
an individual person) in the parallel passage of Jamata Muni. The word kevalam in the
second of these Srimad-Bhagavatam verses is explained to be eka-svarupa-rupa-bhak
(he has his own original spiritual form) in the parallel passage of Jamata Muni. . . .
The word akhanditam, in the second of these Srimad-Bhagavatam verses, means that
the potency of knowledge and the other potencies are not limited or incomplete, and
is explained by the word jnatrtva-kartrtva-bhoktrtva-nija-dharmaka (in his original
spiritual nature he is a knower, a doer, and an enjoyer) in the parallel passage of
Jamata Muni.

All of this contradicts the idea that the original position of the soul is as a nitya-baddha soul in the
brahmajyoti, or as a dormant entity outside Krsnas pastimes. Jamata Muni describes the soul as being
in a pure state, conscious of its unique personal nature, endowed with a spiritual form, and with
potencies of knowledge, action, and enjoyment. Some have proposed that these potencies might exist
in a dormant form, but they are here described as not limited or incomplete. It would really twist the
ordinary, logical use of language to say that all of the characteristics are simply the dormant, potential
characteristics of a soul that is in fact in a fallen, imperfect state, merged in impersonal Brahman, where
there is no variegated manifestation of personal potencies. That idea is certainly not expressed in this
passage.

4.5.2.9 His conception of life is reversed

In text 1 of Anuccheda 47 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says:

Thus the Lords marginal potencies, who are called the individual spirit souls, are limitless
in number. Still, they may be divided into two groups: 1. the souls who, from time
immemorial, are favorable to the Lord (anadita eva bhagavad-unmukhah), and 2. the
rebellious souls who, from time immemorial, are averse to the Supreme Lord (anadita eva
bhagavat-paranmukhah). This is because one group is aware of the Lords glories and the
other group is not aware of them.
The latter group of souls is sometimes called eternally conditioned, but Srila Prabhupada, Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura all explain that this simply means that the time
of conditioning cannot be traced out in material time. Originally, however, the conditioned soul was
Krsna conscious. That Srila Jiva Goswami also accepts this is shown by the following texts.
In text 3 of Anuccheda 47 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says, after having described the
eternally liberated souls in text 2:

aparas tu tat-paranmukhatva-dosena labdha-chidraya mayaya paribhutah samsari.

In this part of text 3, aparas tu means but others. Tat-paranmukhatva-dosena means with the defect
of being averse to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Labdha-chidraya is defined by Kusakratha as
faulty. But I would like to further refine the definition. Labdha means get or obtain. Chidra means
fault, and chidraya is the instrumental case. So labdha-chidraya would appear to mean something like
by having obtained the state of being faulty. Labdha is generally used when one obtains something that
one did not previously have. This indicates the original state of the soul is not faulty. But by becoming
averse to Krsna, the soul becomes faulty. Then what happens? Mayaya paribhutah samsari. Such souls,
says Jiva Goswami, become conquered (paribhutah) by the illusory potency maya and must live in the
material world (samsari).
That Jiva Goswami understood the conditioned soul was originally Krsna conscious is also made clear in
text 4 of Anuccheda 47 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha. There Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam
11.2.37, the famous bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syat verse. The translation by Srila Prabhupada is:

When the living entity is attracted by the material energy, which is separate from
Krsna, he is overpowered by fear. Because he is separated from the Supreme
Personality of Godhead by the material energy, his conception of life is reversed. In
other words, instead of being the eternal servant of Krsna, he becomes Krsnas
competitor. This is called viparyayo smrtih.

The words instead of being the eternal servant of Krsna indicate that the original position is servant of
Krsna. Instead of remaining in this position, the soul becomes Krsnas competitor. Becoming
indicates that the original position was something else, and that original position has already been
described as being the eternal servant of Krsna. If one wants to propose that originally the soul was in a
neutral or undefined position, then the proper expression would have been instead of becoming the
eternal servant of Krsna, he becomes Krsnas competitor. But then the expression his conception of life
is reversed makes no sense. Reversal means the original position has to be servant of Krsna. I have
already shown elsewhere that Srila Prabhupadas translation perfectly follows the Sanskrit. Some might
prefer a different translation of this verse, but I will stick with Srila Prabhupadas.
The evidence from this verse of the Bhagavatam clearly shows that the original position of the
conditioned souls was one of service to Krsna. And in text 5 of Anuccheda 80 of Sri Krsna-sandarbha,
Jiva Goswami says, The Supreme Vedic literature, Srimad-Bhagavatam, should be always taken as the
final authority, and any statement contradicting the Bhagavatam should be rejected.
 4.5.2.10 The souls natural spiritual knowledge

In text 6 of Anuccheda 54 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami describes the avaranatmika

(covering potency) of maya. He says it covers the souls natural spiritual knowledge (svabhavikam
jnanam avrnvana). What is this natural spiritual knowledge that is covered? According to the
brahmajyoti theory, the soul would have been originally absorbed in impersonal liberation. But
impersonal liberation, merging in the Absolute, is called mayas last snare by Srila Prabhupada. It does not
make sense that the natural spiritual knowledge of the soul is impersonal consciousness of the Absolute.
The natural spiritual knowledge of the soul is the conception I am the eternal servant of Krsna. As Lord
Caitanya says, jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya-dasa.

4.5.2.11 When the gross and subtle bodies die,

the living entity within resumes his spiritual identity

In text 2 of Anuccheda 72 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami discusses the liberation of

Maharaja Pariksit. Although Maharaja Pariksit is a liberated soul, he was, like Arjuna, playing the role of a
conditioned soul. Therefore the instructions about his passing from this world should be taken in that
context. In text 3 of Anuccheda 72, Jiva Goswami cites in this connection Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.5.5,
where Sukadeva Goswami says to Maharaja Pariksit:

ghate bhinne ghatakasa

akasah syad yatha pura
evam dehe mrte jivo
brahma sampadyate punah

The key word meanings are: dehethe body, mrtewhen it is given up, in the liberated condition, jivah
the individual soul, brahmahis spiritual status, sampadyateattains, punahonce again.
The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

When a pot is broken, the portion of sky within the pot remains as the element sky, just
as before. In the same way, when the gross and subtle bodies die, the living entity within
resumes his spiritual identity.

We must remember that the Bhagavatam is not some impersonalist tract. We cannot say that Sukadeva
Goswami is describing some impersonal kind of liberation to King Pariksit during his last moments. When
he says the soul regains its original spiritual identity, this can only mean that it regains its constitutional
position as Krsnas eternal servitor. If we take the position that the liberation described herein is
impersonal, then the original state must also be impersonal, since it is said that the soul again (punah)
attains it. The Bhagavatam will not allow such an interpretation.

4.5.2.12 He regains his original spiritual awareness

In text 2 of Anuccheda 83 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites Srimad-Bhagavatam

12.4.33 in a discussion about the false ego of the conditioned soul:

ghano yadarka-prabhavo vidiryate

 caksuh svarupam ravim iksate tada
yada hy ahankara upadhir atmano
jijnasaya nasyati tarhy anusmaret

The translation given by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is:

When the cloud originally produced from the sun is torn apart, the eye can see the actual
form of the sun. Similarly, when the spirit soul destroys his material covering of false ego
by inquiring into the transcendental science, he regains his original spiritual
awareness.

The key word meanings are: yadawhen, hiindeed also, ahankarahfalse ego, upadhihthe
superficial covering, atmanahof the spirit soul, jijnasayaby spiritual inquiry, nasyatiis destroyed,
tarhiat that time, anusmaretone gains his proper remembrance.
In this text, there is a definite reference in the Sanskrit to regaining memory (anusmaret). This shows that
the original state cannot be a covered state. This is also shown by the use of the word upadhih to
describe false ego. Upadhih means an artificial or temporary imposition of something upon the natural
state of a thing. Some might propose that this original uncovered state of awareness is not awareness of
Krsna. The whole structure of the Bhagavatam goes against this. The Bhagavatam is not an impersonalist
tract. The whole message of the Bhagavatam is that the final liberation of the soul is devotional service to
the Supreme Lord. The uncovering of the soul means uncovering its remembrance of Krsna. That this is
true in this specific case is made absolutely clear in the following comments by Jiva Goswami.
In text 5 of Anuccheda 83 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami gives this commentary on the
above-quoted verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam:

Sometimes a person is so eager to see the sun that he sees the sun in his memory.
Thus, in the second part of this example the word anusmaret (he remembers) means
seeing Him in his memory, a person searches for the Supreme Personality of
Godhead.

This passage indicates that the original consciousness of the soul was Krsna consciousness. We remember
what we have forgotten. What we have forgotten is Krsna, as Srila Prabhupada so often said.

4.5.2.13 He loses all of his spiritual qualities

In text 20 of Anuccheda 90 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami, in discussing how the soul
becomes conditioned, again cites Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.87.38:

The illusory material nature attracts the minute living entity to embrace her, and as a
result he assumes forms composed of her qualities. Subsequently, he loses all of his
spiritual qualities [apeta-bhagah] and must undergo repeated deaths.

Especially worthy of note is the compound apeta-bhagah, which indicates that the soul loses its
variegated opulences. This means the original position of the soul must have been a situation where these
opulences were displayed. This cannot have been the brahmajyoti, because there is no variegated display
of personal opulences there, no can it have been any other position outside Krsnas lila.

4.5.2.14 The conditioned soul

 has forgotten his true identity

In text 1 of Anuccheda 91 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says:

The conditioned soul in this material world, who is bewildered by the Lords illusory
potency maya, is also described in these words of Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.7.10.

Text 2 of Anuccheda 91 gives the Bhagavatam text:

yad arthena vinamusya

pumsa atma-viparyayah
pratiyata upadrastuh
sva-siras-chedanadibhih

The living entity is in distress regarding his self-identity. He has no factual background,
like a man who dreams that he sees his head cut off.

This text gives us a scripturally authorized way of adjusting statements that no one falls from
Vaikuntha. We do not really fall. Krsna simply creates a situation in which we forget our real identity and
think that we no longer have it, just like the person who dreams he sees his head cut off. Actually, we
retain our spiritual identity, even though it appears not to exist at present, because we are falsely
identifying with the material body.
In text 3 of Anuccheda 91, Jiva Goswami interprets the above-quoted Bhagavatam verse along these
same lines:

Although he is eternal, always existing in the three phases of time (past, present, and
future), the individual soul does not know this truth about himself. Here the word
atma-viparyayah indicates that the conditioned soul has forgotten his true identity.

In text 5 of Anuccheda 91 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami describes the soul who in a
dream believes that his head has been cut off.

In truth the head is not really cut off. Indeed, it is not possible for anyone to sit in one
place and see his own head being cut off in another place. The sight of this is only an
illusion created by the Lords maya potency. This is described in the following words of
the Vedanta-sutra (3.2.3): It is like a dream created by the maya potency.

(Note: The Sanskrit for Vedanta-sutra 3.2.3 is maya-matram tu kartsnyenanabhivyakta svarupatvat. The
word meanings given by Kusakratha are: maya-matramonly maya; kartsnyenacompletely;
anabhivyaktanot manifested; svarupatvatbecause of the original form.)

In text 1 of Anuccheda 92 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says:

In this way the pure (suddhasya) spirit soul misidentifies with the material body.

This means the actual spiritual body is still there. It is not destroyed by time, as is the body of a demigod
in the heavenly planets. So in this sense, the conditioned soul is not fallen, although he has forgotten
Krsna and his own original spiritual form.

4.5.2.15 The maya potency, which covers the real forms

 of the individual spirit souls

In text 36 of Anuccheda 105 of Sri Paramatma-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami comments on the first
text of Srimad-Bhagavatam:

In the first verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam, the word kuhakam means that which
bewilders. This word refers to the maya potency, which covers the real forms of the
individual spirit souls and throws them into the material world.

This suggests that originally the real forms of the spirit souls were manifest.

4.5.3 SRI TATTVA-SANDARBHA

In Anuccheda 34 of the Tattva-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami states:

atra jivasya tadrsa-cid-rupatve api parama-isvaratah vailaksanyam.

The word meanings to this text excerpt are: atrahere; jivasyaof the individual living entity; tadrsa
like this; cidspiritual; rupatveform; apialso; parama-isvaratahfrom the Supreme Personality of
Godhead; vailaksanyamdifference. The translation is:

Although the individual living entities originally have spiritual forms just like that of
the Supreme Lord, they are nevertheless distinct persons, different from the Lord
Himself.

The important thing to note is that the living entities have forms just like that of the Supreme Lord.
According to the brahmajyoti theory, the jivas would be existing simply as atomic particles in the
brahmajyoti.

4.5.4 SRI BHAKTI-SANDARBHA

4.5.4.1 Because the living entity has turned away

from the Supreme Lord, the material energy makes him forget,
and thus his own original spiritual form is no longer manifested

In Anuccheda 1, Text 1, of the Bhakti-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says:

paramatma-vaibhava-ganane ca tatastha-sakti-rupanam cid-eka-rasanam ap anadi-

para-tattva-jnana-samsargabhavamaya-tad-vaimukhya-labdha-cchidraya tan
mayayavrta-sva-svarupa-jnananam tayaiva sattva-rajas-tamo-maye jade pradhane
racitatma-bhavanam jivanam samsara-duhkham ca jnapitam.

Word meanings: paramatmaof the Supersoul; vaibhavaof the powers; gananein the enumeration;
caalso; tatasthamarginal; saktipotency; rupanamof the forms; cid-eka-rasanamspiritual; api
also; anadiwithout beginning; parasupreme; tattvatruth; jnanaknowledge; samsargathe
material creation; abhavamayanonexistence; tadthat; vaimukhyaaverse; labdhaattained;
chidrayaby the defect; tan mayayamade of it; avrtacovered; svaown; svarupaform;
jnananamknowing; tayaby that; evacertainly; sattva-rajas-tamo-mayemade of the modes of
goodness, passion, and ignorance; jadein the material world; pradhanein the unmanifest material
energy; racitamade; atmaown; bhavanamnature; jivanamof the individual living entities;
samsaraof the world of repeated birth and death; duhkhampain; caalso; jnapitaminformed.
The translation is:

Also, in the description of Paramatma, was described the suffering in the material world of
the individual living entities (jivas), who are the Lords marginal potency, who are spiritual
in nature, and who because of ignorance of the beginningless Supreme Truth and because
of the crime of being averse to Him had the knowledge of their original spiritual
identity covered by illusion (maya) and were placed in the material world of the
modes of goodness, passion, and ignorance.

If the living entities were originally in the brahmajyoti, they would not have had any knowledge of their
svarupa to be covered up. This explanation by Jiva Goswami goes right along with what we have always
been told by Srila Prabhupada. We were originally in the spiritual world with Krsna, we became averse to
serving him, and thus our original spiritual identity was covered over. But we can revive it by the practice
of Krsna consciousness. Jiva Goswami gives no suggestion at all that we were originally in the
brahmajyoti.
Jiva Goswami then quotes Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.22.34, in which Krsna criticizes the speculative
philosophers who have turned their attention away from Me. Jiva Goswami then suggests that the real
medicine for the conditioned souls is submissive hearing of the Vedic literature, especially the
Bhagavatam. But Prahlada Maharaja laments in one of his prayers to the Lord (Srimad-Bhagavatam
7.8.30) that his mind has become most polluted and is never satisfied in topics concerning you. But
hearing the messages of the Lord in the Vedic literature is the only cure.
Jiva Goswami then says that the Vedic literature explains the active relationship between the Lord and the
jiva (abhidheya) and the goal of that active relationship (prayojana). Regarding the relationship, Jiva
Goswami says in Anuccheda 1, Text 7, of the Bhakti-sandarbha:

Because it is the opposite of being averse to the Supreme, that relationship is one of
turning ones face to the Lord and is characterized by service to the Lord.

Jiva Goswami then cites text 11.2.37 from the Bhagavatam:

bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syad

isad apetasya viparyayo smrtih
tan-mayayato budha abhajet tam
bhaktyaikayesam guru-devatatma

Some key word meanings given in the Bhagavatam continuation by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and
Gopiparanadhana Prabhu are: isatfrom the Supreme Lord; apetasya for one who has turned away;
and asmrtihforgetfulness.
Translation by Srila Prabhupada:

When the living entity is attracted by the material energy, which is separate from Krsna,
he is overpowered by fear. Because he is separated from the Supreme Personality of
Godhead by the material energy, his conception of life is reversed. In other words, instead
of being the eternal servant of Krsna, he becomes Krsnas competitor. This is called
 viparyayo smrtih. To nullify this mistake, one who is actually learned and advanced
worships the Supreme Personality of Godhead as his spiritual master, worshipful Deity,
and source of life. He thus worships the Lord by the process of unalloyed devotional
service.

In Anuccheda 1, Text 9, Jiva Goswami then gives Sridhara Swamis commentary on this
Bhagavatam verse:

Sridhara Swami comments: The fear here is created by the Lords material energy.
Budhah means an intelligent person, and abhajet means should worship. Fear is created
by absorption (abhinivesatah) in material things, beginning with the material body. It is
created by the false ego of identifying with the material body and other material things. It
is created because the original spiritual form of the living entity is not manifest. Why
does the material energy (maya) do this? Because the living entity has turned away
from the Supreme Lord (isad apetasya), the material energy makes him forget
(asmrtih), and thus his own original spiritual form is no longer manifested. From
this comes the misidentification (viparyayah) of thinking I am this body. Thus, from
being absorbed in something other than the Supreme Lord (dvitiyabhinivesatah) fear
(bhayam) is created.

So here again we find what we have always been told by Srila Prabhupada. We were once absorbed in
consciousness of Krsna, in our original spiritual form. But we turned away from Krsna, and therefore our
original spiritual form is now covered, and we are absorbed in the bodily concept of life. But we can
nullify this mistake by becoming Krsna conscious again. In the brahmajyoti, the souls are not aware of
Krsna. One of the functions of the brahmajyoti is to veil Krsna and His pastimes. Neither are original
spiritual forms manifest by the souls in the brahmajyoti, who are described as atomic in form. Here it is
also stated that we have forgotten our original form and relationship with Krsna. But if we are eternally
fallen in the brahmajyoti, there is no question of forgetting this. There would be nothing to forget.

4.5.4.2 Originally pure

In Text 3 of Anuccheda 60 of Sri Bhakti-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami describes the jiva as suddhe api,
originally pure.

4.5.4.3 He regains his ability to see Me

In Text 1 of Anuccheda 80 of Sri Bhakti-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami cites text 11.14.26 of the
Bhagavatam, which has been translated by Hridayananda dasa Goswami and Gopiparanadhana Prabhu as
follows:

When a diseased eye is treated with medicinal ointment it gradually recovers its power to
see. Similarly, as a conscious living entity cleanses himself of material contamination by
hearing and chanting the pious narrations of my glories, he regains his ability to see Me,
the Absolute Truth, in My subtle spiritual form.

4.5.4.4 Returns to its original position

of serving Me in the spiritual world
In text 22 of Anuccheda 111, Jiva Goswami says: It may be understood that devotional service to the
Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternal. This does not make sense if we say that some souls were
originally, eternally, in a state of nondevotional service in the brahmajyoti.. Actually, such souls could
take up devotional service only if they decided to fall down from the brahmajyoti, their original position,
according to some. But according to the view that Srila Prabhupada so often gave, we were originally
servants of Krsna, but that service tendency has been misdirected. Eternally we are servants. We have
simply forgotten our real object of service.
In text 1 of Anuccheda 112 of Sri Bhakti-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami goes on to quote Bhagavatam
11.14.25:

Just as gold, when smelted in fire, gives up its impurities and returns to its pure
brilliant state, similarly, the spirit soul, absorbed in the fire of bhakti-yoga, is
purified of all contamination caused by previous fruitive activities and returns to its
original position of serving Me in the spiritual world.

Jiva Goswami comments: This verse means: With love shaking away (vidhuya) past karma, the devotee
attains his original pure spiritual form and then engages in serving (bhajati) Me (mam). The words Jiva
Goswami uses for attains his original pure spiritual form are suddha svarupam ca prapya.

4.5.4.5 Engagement in pure devotional service

is the natural position of all living entities

In Anuccheda 178 of Sri Bhakti-sandarbha, text 1, Jiva Goswami says:

iyam akincanakhya bhaktir eva jivanam svabhavata ucita. svabhavika-tad-asraya hi jivah.

Word meanings: iyamthus; akincanakhya bhaktihpure devotional service; evaindeed; jivanamof

the living entities; svabhavataby nature; ucitais said; svabhavika-tad-asrayataking shelter of their
own natures; hiindeed; jivahthe living entities.
Translation:

Engagement in pure devotional service is the natural position of all living entities.

Jiva Goswami adds:

Thus the individual spirit souls are part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
They are His potencies. They naturally take shelter of Him (tad-asrayatvam).

4.5.4.6 The individual souls original nature

is to be a servant of the Supreme Lord

In text 3 of Anuccheda 178 of Sri Bhakti-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami gives an explanation of the sacred
syllable om (aum).

The letter a is said to be Lord Visnu. The letter u is said to be the goddess of fortune.
The letter m is said to be their servant, the individual spirit soul. . . .
In texts 7-8 of Anuccheda 178, Jiva Goswami says:

The eight-syllable mantra (om namo narayanaya) is described in the following words: In
all times, places, and situations I render every kind of service to the goddess of fortunes
husband, glorious Lord Visnu. In this way it is affirmed that the individual souls
original nature is to be a servant of the Supreme Lord. One who thus understands the
true meaning of this mantra should then engage in the Lords service.

4.5.4.7 When the spirit souls . . . become averse to the Lord

In Text 13 of Anuccheda 178 of Sri Bhakti-sandarbha, Jiva Goswami says, commenting on a prayer
by the personified Vedas:

When the spirit souls, who are by nature always dependent on the Supreme Lord for
their maintenance (nitya-tvad-asrayaika jivanam), become averse to the Lord (api
tesam tvad-vaimukhyena), they find themselves suffering the miseries of life in the
material world of repeated birth and death.

Clearly, in their original position, the jivas are in a direct relationship with the Lord, who personally
maintains them. But when they become averse to the Lords service, the find themselves in the world of
birth and death.
Altogether, the evidence of the Sandarbhas of Jiva Goswami gives no support for the idea that the
original position of the jiva was as a soul eternally averse to Krsna, existing in the brahmajyoti in an
impersonal state or in any other state less than a fully developed relationship with Krsna. Rather, the
evidence suggests that the soul was originally in the spiritual world with Krsna, displaying its personal
opulences by serving the Lord in His lila, and that by misuse of free will the souls original position of
service became reversed to competition with Krsna. Therefore maya has covered the original spiritual
form of the living entity, and thus deprived of its original spiritual opulences, it takes on material bodies in
the cycle of birth and death. But this is like a dream. Actually, the original form is retained. And in this
sense the jiva does not fall. In this way, apparently contradictory statements about falling and not falling
can be adjusted in a way directly given in scripture. In any case, when one practices Krsna consciousness,
ones memory of Krsna is reawakened, and after becoming purely Krsna conscious one returns to ones
original position. All of these statements can be directly supported by Jiva Goswamis statements in his
Sandarbhas, especially Sri Paramatma-sandarbha. Of course, if one wants to ignore the direct meaning
of the words, one can come up with many other scenarios. But in text 26 of Anuccheda 29 of Sri Krsna-
sandarbha, Jiva Goswami warns, saksad upadesas tu srutih: The instructions of the sruti-sastra should
be accepted literally, without fanciful or allegorical interpretations.

5. GENERAL CONCLUSION

Let us now retrace our steps. First of all we concluded that the teachings of Srila Prabhupada should be
our primary resource in answering philosophical questions. We cannot immediately jump over to the
previous acaryas, nor can we properly understand the Vedic scriptures without taking guidance from
Srila Prabhupada. By careful study of Srila Prabhupadas teachings, we learn that he answered the
question of the origin of the conditioned souls as follows:
The conditioned souls now in this material world were originally in a direct relationship of service
to Krsna in the spiritual world. By misuse of free will, manifested as a desire to imitate the Lord
and become the supreme enjoyer, some souls have given up their natural position. They have been
placed in the material world, but by proper use of free will they can regain their original position.
What about statements that no one falls from Vaikuntha? Srila Prabhupada has explained that in one
sense we do not really fall. Our position is like a person who is dreaming. The person is lying on his own
bed, but he is dreaming he is elsewhere. When he wakes up, he finds himself on his own bed. Actually, he
never left his bed. He was just dreaming. So our position is like that. We never leave our original position.
Krsna simply creates a situation where we dream we have left. But when we wake up from the dream of
material life, we find ourselves in our original position. The position never changes. We simply forget it
for some time. So in that sense no one falls. Nevertheless, the original position is one of service to Krsna
in the spiritual world. This is the way that Srila Prabhupada consistently answered questions about the fall
of the jiva. He directly rejected suggestions that we were originally in the brahmajyoti or that we have
been eternally in this material world. He never said we were from the Viraja River, nor did he say our
original position was different from the position we will attain upon going back to Godhead. These
conclusions are in harmony with those of the previous acaryas and the sastras, especially Srimad-
Bhagavatam.
The proper conclusions for ISKCON members, or for anyone else who claims to be a faithful follower of
Srila Prabhupada, is summarized as follows:

1. The origin of the souls now in this material world is undoubtedly a question beyond the range of our
direct perception. We can therefore answer this question only by repeating the answer that Srila
Prabhupada repeatedly gave when asked the same question. We were once in a direct and developed
relationship of service to Krsna in a spiritual planet in the spiritual world. By misuse of independence we
desired to imitate Krsna or take His position. Therefore we have been placed in the material world. But
by becoming Krsna conscious we can regain our original position. No other view shall be presented as
conclusive in any ISKCON media (print, video, electronic), classes, seminars, etc.

2. Srila Prabhupada directly rejected the idea that we are from the brahmajyoti.

3. In resolving philosophical controversies, the teachings, instructions, and personal example of Srila
Prabhupada are the first and primary resource. If a conclusion, recognized by the GBC, can be drawn
from careful study of this resource, it shall guide further research into the Vedic literature, the writings of
previous acaryas, and the teachings of current bona fide Vaisnava acaryas outside ISKCON. Everything
that can be harmonized to the conclusion arrived at from Srila Prabhupadas teachings shall be accepted.
Any contradictions that cannot be resolved shall be placed in the category of differences among the
acaryas. But ISKCON members shall follow the conclusion of Srila Prabhupada when there is such a
difference.

[End]