Beruflich Dokumente
Kultur Dokumente
comforum
Dear visitor, if you know the answer to this question, please post it. Thank you!
Note that this thread has not been updated in a long time, and its content might not be up-to-
date anymore.
...tara
This "if"expression uses, with the verb "iku" as an example, the verb form of "ittara," which has an
element of "itta," past or perfect meaning in it. So this one carries the meaning of: (1) "when one action
*has* happened...," as well as (2) the equivalent if "if something happened..." the hypothetical IF
conditional.
- Kyoto ni ittara, omiyage wo katte kite kudasai. (When you're in Kyoto/when you've gotten to Kyoto,
please buy me a souvenir.)
- Kyoto ni ittara, oishii mono ga takusan taberaremasu yo. (If you go to Kyoto, you will be able to enjoy a
lot of delicious food.)
- Kyoto ni iketara, ureshii. (If I could go to Kyoto, I'd be happy.) - In this case I took "...tara" form of "ikeru,"
"can go."
...nara
Taking the same verb for example, "iku nara":
- Kyoto ni iku nara, XXX ryokan ga ii desu. (If you are to go to Kyoto, traditional inn XXX would be good/my
recommendation.)
"...nara" is like "if you are to...." another IF conditional, but referring more forward-looking than "...tara."
... ba
Taking the same verb, it would be "ikeba." This expression is used when you want to say things like "If you
do A, the *natural consequence would be* B" type of "if" sentences. For example,
- Kyoto ni ikeba, furui nihon ga miraremasu. (If you go to Kyoto, you'll be able to see old Japan.)
- Nihon ga donna kuni ka, kureba wakarimasu. (You will understand what kind of country Japan is, if you
(only) come.)
Having said all this, I do realize that they are quite close, and the dierences are diicult to show with
limited examples; please feel free to add or cite specific sentences that you fould confusing.
4) A ba B: If A, B. (B must be non-volitional)
Eg. Nihon e ikeba, fuji san ga miraremasu. (If you go to Japan, you'll be able to see Mount Fuji)
http://www.japanguide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+27379 1/5
11/21/2016 usageoftara,naraandbaformjapanguide.comforum
Eg.
iku (to go) -- ikeba
miru (to look) -- mireba
kuru (to come) -- kureba
suru (to do) -- sureba
Eg.
Moshi/Moshimo okane ga tarinakattara, dou shimasu ka?
(Supposing/If you do not have enough money, what will you do?)
.. 2006/9/2 23:58
wakarimashita.
thanks A-Z :)
by konni rate this post as useful
Eg.
2) A ba B
If A & B are the same subject, B must be non-volitional. Otherwise, B can be volitional. If A & B are both
actions/events, A & B generally can happen together. In cases where it is clear that B must occur only aer
A has taken place, "ba" cannot be used.
http://www.japanguide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+27379 2/5
11/21/2016 usageoftara,naraandbaformjapanguide.comforum
Eg.
(Hayaku okireba, denwa wo shimasu.)
(Tanaka san ga ikeba, watashi mo ikimasu.)
(Kyou benkyou sureba, ashita asobemasu.)
(Heya ga hirokereba, soko wo karimasu.)
(BERU ga nareba, kyoushitsu wo hanarete mo ii desu.)
3) A nara B
A is not a condition but an assumption. B is the speaker's opinion, volition, request/command or
suggestion.
Eg.
(Nihon e iku nara, Shibuya ga ichiban ii desu.)
(Nihon e iku nara, Hokkaido e ikimasu.)
(Nihon e iku nara, nihongo wo benkyou shinasai.)
(Nihon e iku nara, kotoba dake ja nakute, bunka mo shitteita hou ga ii desu yo.)
(A-Z:) [is] In cases where it is clear that B must occur only aer A has taken place, "ba" cannot be used
Nihon e ikeba, fuji san ga miraremasu. (If you go to Japan, you'll be able to see Mount Fuji) [ie]
What you (A-Z) mean is that if A did not take place, B cannot occur. So in the second example, I thought it
is pretty clear that I can only see Mount Fuji AFTER I go to Japan? If I did not go to Japan, I am not able to
see Mount Fuji.
(AK:) [is] ... ba "If you do A, the *natural consequence would be* B" type of "if" sentences
Kyoto ni ikeba, furui nihon ga miraremasu. (If you go to Kyoto, you'll be able to see old Japan.) [ie]
VS
(A-Z :) [is] B is a logical result of A. [ie]
Erm, I must admit that I cant see the dierence between natural and logical. Allow me to give an
example:
If you had listened to what I said, we would not be in this dangerous place now.
Omae wa boku no hanashi de kikereba, ima kono kiken na basho ni imasen yo.
Omae wa boku no hanashi de kiku to, ima kono kiken na basho ni imasen yo.
Actually, sometimes, the dierence between these conditionals is just the implicit meaning, is it?
So this sentence should be interpreted as If you do go to the library (with more certainty)
So this should be read as If you happen to go to the library (Assuming you are going, with more
uncertainty)
Oh ya, and I would like to try making a conditional sentence with a few clauses. Please feel free to correct
me.
If I had come early to school every day, studied well, and talked nicely to the teacher, I would not have
been punished by him now.
Watashi wa mainichi ni gakkou ni hayaku itte, yoku benkyou shite, sensei ni yasashiku ieba, ima
bassarenai yo.
http://www.japanguide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+27379 3/5
11/21/2016 usageoftara,naraandbaformjapanguide.comforum
Thank you, pai tuo ni men le. (Onegaishimasu)
I would suggest:
-Anata ga watashi no hanashi wo kiite ireba, ima kono you na kiken na basho ni imasen yo.
In this case, you'd have to make it "if you HAD listened to..." so the verb tense would be dierent. For this,
I would suggest the "ba" form (ireba) or "...tara" form (itara). In this example, "kiku to" would be a no-no.
(Please don't ask me why, this is one area still I'm struggling to explain!)
If I had come early to school every day, studied well, and talked nicely (=politely) to the teacher, I would not
have been punished by him now.
One suggestion:
- Watashi ga mainichi gakkou ni hayaku itte, yoku benkyou shite, sensei ni teinei ni hanashite itara, ima
bassarete inai deshou.
About "talking nicely to the teacher," I suggest "sensei ni teinei na kotoba-dukai wo shite itara," (had I
spoken with good polite speaking manner).
. 2008/7/31 19:27
In this case, you'd have to make it "if you HAD listened to..." so the verb tense would be dierent. For this, I
would suggest the "ba" form (ireba) or "...tara" form (itara). In this example, "kiku to" would be a no-no.
(Please don't ask me why, this is one area still I'm struggling to explain!)
I guess "to" would be wrong in this case because it cannot be used for unreal conditional clauses? Things
that happened in the past cannot be changed now. It's not a realistic choice to go back in time and act
dierently. So for all sentences with a pattern like "If I had done this or that (in the past)" it would be
wrong to use "to" because "to" can only be used if the condition described in the sentence can actually be
fulfilled.
but
for sentences like "If you had pushed the button the door would have opened." "to" cannot be used
because even though a logical consequence is described the condition is an unrealistic one that cannot
be fulfilled anymore.
Ok 2008/8/1 08:08
Ok. Guess some things can't be dierentiate distinctively. I guess I'll go by the concept then. Thanks
anyway guys.
by Zyzzyva rate this post as useful
-ba: Unlike the sentence led by "to"clause, "ba" is used in expressions which reflect the speaker's
will,judgment, permission, view, order or request.
-In the sentence using ba, there is an opposite situation in speaker's mind.
Nara: It is used when the speaker addresses the topic introduced by the other person as the main theme.
The sentence preceded by "nara" oen expresses the speaker's advice, suggestion, requirement, or
http://www.japanguide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+27379 4/5
11/21/2016 usageoftara,naraandbaformjapanguide.comforum
judgment.
She's talking about studying at my school and her original question was "joe
"
Perhaps it is because I'm in a rush to go out but I really have no idea what she is trying to say. Can you
interpret it for me please? Normally I can do it myself but I'm already late for where I'm supposed to be
going. This word makes no sense to me on its own and in its dictionary definition.
Sorry for derping around, but I found a "nara" case sentence that I can't really understand....
Here is the type of sentence : "A ni nareba kiete shimau B ga".
I don't even know if B is the subject... it must be, since there's "ga", but there's an other sentence aer it,
with a verb referring to B. So, "ga" can be "but" ? :/
Plus, I would like to know if the verb(s) "kiete shimau" is accomplished by A or B.
Could you help me, kind people ? :)
http://www.japanguide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+27379 5/5