COMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD Re: Civilian interview 1 Type of event: Interview Date: March 2, 2004 Special Access: None Prepared by: Madeleine Blot Team: 8b Location: Euro Brokers offices, 199 Water Street Participants — Non Commission: Civilian interview 1 Participants - Commission: Madeleine Blot As of September 11, 2001, Brian Clark worked for Euro Brokers on the 84" floor of 2 WIC (the South Tower). Euro Brokers occupied the entire 84" floor of the tower. At the time the North tower was struck by AA Flight 11, approximately 250 Euro Brokers employees were on the 84" floor of the South Tower. ‘Mr. Clark was in his office on the west wall, near the southwest comer of the building. When the plane struck the building, the lights blinked and Mr. Clark saw bright flames outside his window, caused by the burst of flame coming out of the south side of the North Tower. Mr. Clark was not entirely aware of what had occurred and surmised that there may have been an explosion above him in his building. Mr. Clark was a fire warden for his floor and thought it would be a good idea to start evacuating people in his area'. He began to do so but, after 3 or 4 minutes, he did not consider leaving himself, as TV sets around the office had picked up coverage showing that the incident had occurred in the other tower. Knowing this, Mr. Clark did not feel great urgency to leave. Approximately 200 of the 250 Euro Brokers employee in the office suecessfully evacuated the building. Some took the elevators and others took the stairs. At approximately 8:55 a.m., the strobe lights flashed, a siren sounded to get attention of building occupants, and a building announcement came over the public address system. Mr. Clark recalls the precise wording of the announcement as the following: Your * There is no evidence that they attempted to use the floor warden phone to call the FCS for instructionsCOMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED Attention Please. Building 2 is secure. There is no need to evacuate building 2. If you are in the midst of evacuation, you may use the re-entry doors and the elevators fo retum. to your floor. The message was then repeated in full. Mr. Clark recognized the voice of the person making the announcement as the deputy fire safety director who regularly conducted fire drills on his floor! Asa result of the announcement, approximately ten Euro Brokers employees— who had been in the process of evacuating—reversed their course and returned to the 84" floor. Others were personally instructed to go back upstairs by “PA security in the lobby." (See MER Int Stanely Praimnath) Most people who remained on the 84" floor migrated to windows on the northeast side of the building in the trading area which faced the plaza. The trading area occupied easter side of the floor. From there, debris and people could be seen falling from the North Tower. There were also TV’s in this location broadcasting coverage of the events. Shortly before 9:03 a.m., Mr. Clark helped a female co-worker—who was hysterical—to the restroom on the westem side of the floor. He then proceeded to his office on the west side of the building to make a call. After that, he proceeded to an open area near the middle of the west wall. He was standing in this location when the South Tower was struck by UA Flight 175. When the plane hit the building, the room disintegrated. Although the floor held, everything on the ceiling, including tiles, lights, air conditioning ducts, and speakers, came down. There were no flames or black smoke, but there was construction dust and the daylight from the windows became filtered. The building seemed to torque and move sideways for approximately 5 to 8 seconds. Mr. Clark’s impression was that the building ‘moved approximately 3 yards to the west before returning back the other way. Mr. Clark is certain that the sway was much greater than in any prior wind storm. ‘Because Mr. Clark was a fire warden, he had a flashlight. He waved the flashlight around and promptly led himself and 6 other people in his area over fallen items to the center of floor, where the building’s 3 stairwells and elevators were located. For no specific reason”, he tumed left (north) to stairwell A. He did not check whether stairways B & C were passable, but does not know of anyone who escaped by those The DFSDs in the South Tower on the morning of the Sept 11 were Philip Hayes and Kevin Horan; Mr. Clark has identified the person who made the announcement as the DFSD who regularly conducted fire Grills on his floor, who he confirmed, in response to staff's questions, was a man in his 60's. This fits the description of Mr Hayes, who is generally believed to have made the announcement, and who perished in the tower's collapse. Kevin Horan has been unavailable for questioning, see MFR re Kevin Horan As of Sept 11, 2001, the PA no longer controlled the WTC. Deputy fire safety directors responsible for ‘making public address announcement were employed by an outside company, OCS security, contracted to SPI and, before the transfer of control, to the PA Mr. Clark later remarked during a videotaped interview conducted by commission staff that he may have tured in the direction he did, towards the elevators, because that was the way home.COMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED stainwells, except possibly people who transferred to them from stairway A at a much lower point’. At this point, Mr. Clark knew that it was a terrorist attack which was occurring but did not know what had hit his building. He had learned from television coverage that plane that had the North Tower, but he was not clear on what kind of plane it was and was not aware of any other details. On the 81" floor level of stairwell A, Mr. Clark’s group encountered a heavyset ‘woman and a relatively thin man. The woman was struggling and appeared to be aimost physically incapable of climbing the stairs. She stated to Mr. Clark’s group: “You can’t go down. Stop. We've just come off a floor in flames.” Mr. Clark is not sure what floor these civilians had ascended from but, based on the time and the heavyset woman’s capacity to climb, he guesses that it was approximately the 79" floor. This encounter took place at approximately 9:05 a.m. The thin man did not say a word, ‘Mr. Clark and the other eight people in the stairwell began a debate about whether to go up or down, as Mr. Clark shone his flashlight on each of them. Within about 15 seconds, Mr. Clark heard cries for help coming from 81" floor. He grabbed his colleague, Civilian 8," and they managed to squeeze through the space between the stairwell doorframe and damaged drywall to get onto the 81° floor. While doing so, Mr. Clark noticed two of his colleagues, Robert Coll and Kevin York, start to help the heavyset woman up the stairs. Another colleague, David Vera, also began to ascend the stairs. Mr. Vera had a company walkie-talkie. On the 81° floor, Mr. Clark observed a lot more smoke but no flames. He heard, however, that the person whose cries he was following had seen flames near the south wall of the 81* floor when the building was hit. While Mr. Clark and Civilian 8 were attempting to reach this person, Civilian 8—who had been using a gym bag as a filtering mask—was overcome by smoke. He lefi the floor and re-entered stairwell A which he ascended in search of clearer air. Mr. Clark eventually reached the person whose cries he was following, but the man—Stanley Praimnath—was trapped behind a sheetrock wall. Mr. Clark managed to help Mr. Praimnath over the wall (See MFR Int Stanley Praimnath) and lead him to stairwell A where they began to descend. Mr. Clark told staff later, in a videotaped interview, that he did not see any obstruction (i.e, fire) below him in stairwell A. His instinct was to proceed down (rather than up) unless and until he was physically stopped from doing so. Staff has determined that Richard Fern, who also evacuated from the 84 floor after the South Tower was struck, switched from the A stairwell to the B stairwell at the 76” floor and continued down from there “ Civilian 8, who was also interviewed by staff, does not recall exiting the stairwell with Mr. Clark before he continued to ascend stairwell A.‘ COMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED Near the 81" floor, the 2 (of 3) layers of drywall closest to the stairs had blown off in many places. In some cases, it had fallen over the railings ang, in others, it covered the stairs like a slide. There was also a lot of water on the stairs. Flames were visible through cracks in the wall at approximately the 78" floor, but Mr. Clark did not observe any roaring inferno. By the 74” floor, conditions in the stairwell were essentially normal There may have been a little water, but the air was fresh and the lights were on. On the 68" floor, Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath encountered a co-worker of Mr. Clark, named Jose Merrero. Mr. Merrero had been escorting a number of people from Euro Brokers down the stairs when the South Tower was struck. After hearing on the company walkie-talkie that his David Vera was on the 84” floor helping co-workers, he reversed his course in order to provide additional assistance. He was on his way up the stairs, climbing to the impact zone, when Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath met him. Mr. Clark surmises that he was coming from approximately the 50" floor. ‘Mr. Merrero was the only person Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath met in the stairwell. They did not encounter any emergency responders and did not hear any further pa. announcements. They proceeded down, checking transfer doors for heat before passing through them. On the 44" floor, they stopped to check the lower sky lobby. It ‘was virtually empty, except for a South Asian security guard (approx 65 or 70 yrs old) at his post with a severely injured younger Caucasian man (approx 30 yrs old). The younger man had massive head wounds, though it was not apparent how he had gotten them. Mr. Praimnath spoke briefly with the injured man, while Mr. Clark spoke with the security guard. The security guard asked if they had a phone because his was not working. He said he was going to stay with the injured man but asked that they please call for assistance when they could find a phone. They proceeded down the stairs and stopped on the 31" floor, which was a re- entry floor, to look for a phone. They found a working phone in a conference room which they later learned belonged to Oppenheimer. Mr. Clark called home to tell his family he was all right. Mr. Praimnath also called his wife’s office but she was not there. ‘Mr. Clark called 9-1-1 at approximately 9:40 a.m. He told a female operator, who took the call, that there was a severely injured man on the 44" floor of the South Tower and that they needed to send a medic and a stretcher. The operator told Mr. Clark that he would have to convey the information to her supervisor. She put him on hold for at least 30 to 40 seconds, and then another woman came on and said ‘yes sir can Ihelp you?” Mr. Clark reiterated the information and informed the operator that he was in the process of evacuating the South Tower. The second operator also told him that he would have to talk to her supervisor and proceeded to put him on hold for approximately another minute. When the third woman came on, Mr. Clark said, ‘I'm only going to say this ‘once, don’t put me on hold.’ He repeated the vital information and said ‘I’m not staying ‘on the phone any longer, I’m leaving now’ and hung up™" Staff has located Mr. Clark's 9-1-1 call and found it be almost precisely as he described it. The transfer he mentioned were to EMS. Mr. Clark described his experience with 9-1-1 in a videotaped interviewed conducted by staff for the Commission’s Eleventh public hearing.After this, Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath proceeded back to stairwell A and continued their descent. At approximately the 15" floor, they slowed down a bit. When they reached plaza level on the north side of the building, the plaza area looked like “an archaeological dig.” From there, they descended the escalator to concourse level. In the lobby, they encountered a female security official who told them that they could not go through the lobby. She instructed them to proceed through the concourse to Victoria’s Secret, then to tum right and exit by Sam Goody. The woman did not ask them any questions about what floor they had come from, which stairwell they had descended, or what conditions were like on their floor, even though they were the only people in the lobby at the time, Mr. Praimnath was visibly tattered, and they were both covered in dust, indicating that they had descended from affected floors. COMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED In the concourse, there was random activity of firefighters, mostly getting themselves organized. They did not give Mr. Clark or Mr. Praimnath any directions, nor did they question them about their escape route. Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath exited the concourse through 4 WTC, as instructed. As they walked out onto Liberty Street, they were told by a firefighter: “If you're going to cross Liberty, you've got to go forit.” He was referring to the hazards posed by debris falling to the street. Mr. Clark asked the firefighter if he should look up to determine an appropriate time to proceed; the firefighter said no and reiterated that they should ‘‘just go for it.” Mr. Clark decided to ook up anyway and he and Mr. Praimnath made it across the street without being harmed. They ran a half block to a deli on Greenwich St, where they were given water and atray of food. They continued down Greenwich Street, which was not densely populated. There were not too many emergency workers on the street, but people were generally walking away from scene so they did not need to be directed to do so. Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath tumed east and proceeded to Trinity Place, where they encountered a couple of ministers who said a short prayer for them and told them that Trinity Church was open. On Rector Street (on the south side of church), Mr. Praimnath remarked that building could come down. Just as Mr. Clark (who is an engineer) began to say no, the first collapse began. Mr. Clark described the collapse as a series of explosions, rather than floors just falling. Glass burst out of the windows and then the top slid. Even having witnessed it, Mr. Clark thought that the building had only collapsed above the fire line. A wave of dust came over the church. Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath ran to 42 Broadway where they stayed for approximately 45 minutes. After this, they wandered towards the East River but somehow became separated from each other. At approximately 11 a.m., as he was walking through the haze near Pier 11 on South Street (not elevated FDR), Mr. Clark heard a bullhorn directing people to the ferry to Jersey City. The ferry left immediately as Mr. Clark got on board. People on the ferry were primarily civilians, mostly business people trying to escape the area. There were no injured people on the ferry.COMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED ‘The boat went down to Battery Park at the southern tip of Manhattan and then proceeded up the Hudson River. It was not until it emerged from the haze that Mr. Clark could see that both towers had come down, After Mr. Clark got off the ferry, he called home. When his wife had seen the South Tower collapse on TV, she had assumed—based on the time it took him to descend from the 31* floor in 1993—that he could not have made it out of the building". She was shocked to lea that he was alive. Mr. Clark walked to Hoboken and was able to take a NJ Transit train home. Trains were delayed but running and he was home by 1:15 pam. 1993 Bombing Euro Brokers was located on the 31" floor of 1 WTC (the North Tower) at the time of the 1993 bombing. They were scheduled to move that evening to the 84" floor of the South Tower but, because of the incident, the move was delayed by a couple of weeks Aiter 1993, fire drills were conducted every six months. Approximately 10 civilians per floor were designated as fire wardens. Mr. Clark was a fire warden for the 84" floor. Mr. Clark told staff during his videotaped interview that he feels the Port Authority did a great job of preparing tenants after 1993. Fire wardens were given flashlights and whistles. The procedure for fire drills was for floor wardens to call down to the Fire Command Desk to obtain instructions. Mr. Clark does not recall receiving a uniform instruction regarding which way to evacuate, e.g. up or down, in the event of an emergency. Instead he remembers being instructed to await directions which would be given at the time. [Staff believes that fact-based instruction are more sensible than pre- determined ones] After the drill, floor wardens would meet and confer with PA security” Euro Brokers fire wardens were also given walkie-talkies from the company, which were good for communications up to several blocks away. Staff has leamed that these walkie-talkies functioned on the moming of September 11" for communications between people in different locations within the building as well between those in the building and outside on the street. Other Information Mr. Clark learned the following information from conversations with other evacuees and families of Euro Brokers victims. In 1993, Euro Brokers was located on the 31° floor of the North Tower. Coincidentally, Mr. Clark was ‘on the 31” floor of the South Tower when he called his wife to say that he was ok. ® These were the DFSD’s conducting the drill. As of Sept 11°, OCS security, for whom these employees ‘worked, was contracted to SPI. Before the net lease closing, it had been contracted to the PACOMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED Robert Coll, Euro Brokers: Mr. Coll was in the process of evacuating the South Tower (probably by stairs) when heard the “first” p.a. announcement. He went back upstairs with a few other people. He survived the initial impact on the 84” floor and began descending stairwell A with Mr. Clark, but ended up helping the heavyset woman up the stairs and perished later, presumably in the collapse. Female EB employee, Euro Brokers: - arrived in the lobby of the South ‘Tower approximately 15 minutes after the North Tower was struck. She was not discouraged from entering the building (evidenced by the fact she did). On her way up in the elevator, the South Tower was struck. The elevator became stuck on 12" floor, where --- , and possibly others, made cell phone calls to family and friends. She apparently died in collapse of building. Richard Fem, Euro Brokers: (rfern@ebi.com) Mr. Fern had just gotten into the elevator on the 84" floor of the South Tower when it was struck. He bounced around in elevator but the doors did not close. He went right to stairwell A and was able to successfully descend and exit the building. (See MFR Int Richard Fern) Civilian 8: Civilian 8 survived the crash on the 84" floor of the South Tower. He was among the group which Mr. Clark led to stairwell A. On his way to help Stanley Praimnath with Mr. Clark, Civilian 8, who was using gym bag as filtering mask, was overcome by smoke. He re-entered stairwell A and went up to 91" floor to search for clearer air. He encountered some other people there and eventually decided to go back down and successfully descended down stairwell A. Civilian 8 was just exiting the concourse near Sam Goody with a co-worker (an obese male employee of Euro Brokers whom he met in ‘the concourse) when the collapse of tower 2 began. He was blown “across” Liberty St by a fireball. ‘The co-woker died in the hospital two weeks later. (See Civilian 8 interview) Stanley Praimnath, Fuji Bank, now Mizuho Bank. Mr. Praimnath decided to evacuate by elevator after the North Tower was struck. As he was exiting the building through turnstiles, he was encouraged to go back by building security (wearing blue blazers—Summit). Most of the group he was with decided to go back but Mr. Praimnath encouraged an office temp to go home (she did). Upstairs, Mr. Praimnath saw the second plane approaching his office from his south-facing window on the 81° floor. He dove under his desk and survived crash, but all the other employees he ascended with died. He was helped by Brian Clark (see above) to escape down and evacuated by stairwell A. (SP may have spoken directly with injured person on 44" floor) (See MFR Int Stanley Praimnath) Adiam Arias: Employee 2 descended to the lobby of the South Tower after the North Tower was struck; Mr. Clark is not sure whether he took the elevator or the stairs. He ran into 2 high school firefighter friends in lobby and stayed to help them evacuate and direct civilians. Mr. Arias and one of the firefighters died in collapse. ‘Jose Merrero, Euro Broker fire warden: (See above)COMMISSION SENSITIVE UNCLASSIFIED Jemy Banks (jbanks@ebi.com): Mr. Banks was on the ground with a walkie- talkie, communicating with people on the 84" floor. (See MFR Int Jerry Banks) EB widow: EB widow was on the phone with her fiancé an EB employee when the building collapsed.