Lecture 3

The Laws Speak

The Argument of the Laws

Application of Socrates principles
o Hypocritical?
o State uses Principle 5, citizens 1-5
Agreement to obey
o What is an agreement the basis of an exchange, something (freely) chosen,
based on mutual understanding? Is it an agreement if not freely chosen?
o A form of promising and binding
o Chosen? Given opportunity, you can go anywhere after you have grown. But
what if you dont leave? Still an agreement?
o Tacit agreement in ideas with Crito/Socrates
o Rousseau the social contract obligation (governmental contract)
A return to practical consideration
o Life leaving Athens
Close by or far away (among barbarians disorder and chaos)
Barbarians loved they damn horses Centaurs?
o Will exile help his children?
If they go, no education. No connections refugee etc.
If they stay, he cant look after them.
o Consequences if he doesnt leave
If he escaped, he would be punished
Next life retribution kind of thing

The Priority of the State

Historical context
o Barbarian/city split not necessarily true but how Socrates saw them
The laws and city as ones true parents?
o Social norms and institutions allows marriage, birth, etc.
o Laws create society state-created institutes make us/help shape us
Life outside the order of the city is barely life at all
Cruel structure of exclusion
Agembon
The stateless
o Socrates similar to modern day refugee?

Socratic Civil Disobedience

The laws offer a clear requirement: either obey or try to persuade them
Disobey certain laws in the hope of changing other laws
MLK and Gandhi similarities to Socrates
Not to destroy the state (anarchism/Communism), but to change it

Preamble in Platos dialogues bribery

5 Principles
1) One ought never act unjustly
2) One ought never return injustice with injustice
3) One ought never do evil
4) One ought
5) One must keep ones agreements provided that they are just

Is retributive justice in line with Socrates? No.

Socrates annoying way of obeying

A man willing to die for principles

Not obeying, but not trying to destroy the state
Is obeying the law obligatory? Does it depend on how they came to be?