Four Dogs Are in A Kennel Overlapping

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Twenty-four dogs are in a kennel. Twelve of the dogs are [#permalink] Dec 05, 2009 5:05 pm Show Tags 12,774 Decision Tracker
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Twenty-four dogs are in a kennel. Twelve of the dogs are black, six of the dogs have short tails, and fifteen of the dogs have 1506 Premium Members
Posts: 37 long hair. There is only one dog that is black with a short tail and long hair. Two of the dogs are black with short tails and do active
Concentration: General Business not have long hair. Two of the dogs have short tails and long hair but are not black. If all of the dogs in the kennel hav e at least
Administration one of the mentioned characteristics, how many dogs are black with long hair but do not have short tails?
Schools: University of Toronto,
Mcgill, Queens I'll write solution later.
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kp1811 Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Dec 05, 2009 5:45 pm
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Bullet wrote:
Twenty-four dogs are in a kennel. Twelve of the dogs are black, six of the dogs hav e short tails, and fifteen of the dogs hav e
long hair. There is only one dog that is black with a short tail and long hair. Two of the dogs are black with short tails and do
not hav e long hair. Two of the dogs hav e short tails and long hair but are not black. If all of the dogs in the kennel have at
Joined: 30 Aug 2009 least one of the mentioned characteristics, how many dogs are black with long hair but do not have short tails?
Posts: 286
Location: India
I'll write solution later.
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Management
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given Black (B) dogs =12
Dogs with short tails (ST) = 6
Dogs with long hair (LH) = 15
n(B ST LH) = 1
n(B ST) = 2
n(ST LH) = 2
let x be n(B LH) which we need to find out

n(only ST) = 1
n(only B) = 9-x [ n(B) - n(B ST LH) - n(B ST) - n(B LH)]
n(only ST) = 1 [n(ST) - n(B ST LH) - n(B ST) - n(ST LH)]
n(only LH) = 12-x [n(LH) - n(B ST LH) - n(B ST) - n(ST LH)]
now we know all of the dogs in the kennel have at least one of the mentioned characteristics so
VERIFIED REVIEW
n(only B) + n(only ST) + n(only LH) + n(B ST LH) + n(B ST) + n(B LH) + n(ST LH) = 24
9 -x + 1 + 12 -x + 1 + 2 + x + 2 = 24
27-x = 24 I could not have asked for anything
x=3 better!
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rathoreaditya81 Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Dec 05, 2009 6:55 pm
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Bullet wrote: So Africans are the most underrepresented
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Twenty-four dogs are in a kennel. Twelve of the dogs are black, six of the dogs hav e short tails, and fifteen of the dogs hav e world. Why is this so? Well for starters the cost.
long hair. There is only one dog that is black with a short tail and long hair. Two of the dogs are black with short tails and do Paying for an international MBA...
not hav e long hair. Two of the dogs hav e short tails and long hair but are not black. If all of the dogs in the kennel have at By lillianmbula
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least one of the mentioned characteristics, how many dogs are black with long hair but do not have short tails?
Posts: 51
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rawpost I have ever
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The answer is indeed 3.
12+6+15-4-x-2(1) = 24 CURRENT STUDENT BLOGS

which implies x = 3.
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ManUnited27 Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Dec 08, 2009 11:52 pm
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I am curious to know why the answer is not 7.
Total = Group1 + Group2 + Group3 - Group1/2 - Group1/3 - Group2/3 + 2(Group1/Group2/Group3)
24 = 12+6+15-2-2-x+2
24 = 33-4-x+2
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 24 = 29-x+2
Posts: 5 22 = 29-x
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x=7
Can someone point out my mistake?
rathoreaditya81 Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Dec 09, 2009 12:14 pm
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ManUnited27 wrote:
I am curious to know why the answer is not 7.
Total = Group1 + Group2 + Group3 - Group1/2 - Group1/3 - Group2/3 + 2(Group1/Group2/Group3)

Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 51 24 = 12+6+15-2-2-x+2
Concentration: Finance
24 = 33-4-x+2
Schools: Cambridge
24 = 29-x+2
22 = 29-x
FOLLOW SEND PM
x=7
Can someone point out my mistake?
ManU,
I reckon the formula that you are using is not correct -
The formula to use is -

Total = Group1 + Group2 + Group3 - (sum of 2-group overlaps) - 2*(all three) + Neither
If you put the v alues in the above, the answer comes out to be 3.
See my earlier post above.
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burnttwinky Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Dec 11, 2009 4:46 am
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This wasnt complex but v ery time consuming. Good problem, though.
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nonameee Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Aug 05, 2010 3:48 pm
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I am completely baffled by this question.
When I solve it using the formula:

# of items total = (a + b + c) - (ab + ac + bc) + (abc)

3 of 7 7/20/2017 10:23 PM
Author Message
I get 6
When I solve it the same way as Bullet, I get 3.
Can someone please suggest, where the mistake is?
Thanks.
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bibha Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Aug 05, 2010 3:58 pm
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When do we use these formula?>

total = A+B+C - (AnB+BnC+AnC) + Neither + (AnBnC)
total = A+B+C - (sum of exactly two groups) - 2(AnBnC) +Neither
Joined: 15 Apr 2010

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Bunuel Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Aug 05, 2010 5:08 pm
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nonameee wrote:
I am completely baffled by this question.
When I solve it using the formula:

# of items total = (a + b + c) - (ab + ac + bc) + (abc)
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 40281 I get 6
FOLLOW SEND PM
When I solve it the same way as Bullet, I get 3.
Can someone please suggest, where the mistake is?
Thanks.
bibha wrote:
When do we use these formula?>

total = A+B+C - (AnB+BnC+AnC) + Neither + (AnBnC)
total = A+B+C - (sum of exactly two groups) - 2(AnBnC) +Neither
My post from formulae-for-3-ov erlapping-sets-69014.html?hilit=exactly%20groups
I'd advise to understand the concept rather than to memorize formulas. Look at the diagram below:
Attachment:
Union_3sets.gif [ 11.63 KiB | Viewed 11308 times ]
FIRST FORMULA
We can write the formula counting the total as: Total = A + B + C (AnB + AnC + BnC) + AnBnC + Neither.
When we add three groups A, B, and C some sections are counting more than once. For instance: sections 1, 2, and 3 are
counted twice and section 4 thrice. Hence we need to subtract sections 1, 2, and 3 ONCE (to get one) and subtract section 4
TWICE (again to count section 4 only once).
Now, in the formula AnB means intersection of A and B (sections 3 and 4 on the diagram). So when we are subtracting AnB (3
an4), AnC (1 and 4), and BnC (2 and 4) from A + B + C, we are subtracting sections 1, 2, and 3 ONCE BUT section 4 THREE
TIMES (and we need to subtract section 4 only twice), therefor we should add only section 4, which is intersection of A, B and C
(AnBnC) again. That is how thee formula T otal = A + B + C (AnB + AnC + BnC) + AnBnC + Neitheris derived.
SECOND FORMULA
The second formula you are referring to is: T otal = A + B + C {Sum of Exactly 2 groups members}
2 AnBnC + Neither . This formula is often written incorrectly on forums as Exactly 2 is no the same as intersection of 2
and can not be written as AnB. Members of exactly (only) A and B is section 3 only (without section 4), so members of A and B
only means members of A and B and not C. This is the difference of exactly (only) A and B (which can be written, though not
needed for GMAT, as AnB C ) from A and B (which can be written as AnB )
Now how this formula is derived?

4 of 7 7/20/2017 10:23 PM
Author Message
Again: when we add three groups A, B, and C some sections are counting more than once. For instance: sections 1, 2, and 3 are
counted twice and section 4 thrice. Hence we need to subtract sections 1, 2, and 3 ONCE (to get one) and subtract section 4
TWICE (again to count section 4 only once).
When we subtract {Sum of Exactly 2 groups members} from A+B+C we are subtracting sum of sections 1, 2 and 3 once (so
that's good) and next we need to subtracr ONLY section 4 (AnBnC ) twice. That's it.
Now, how this concept can be represented in GMAT problem?
Example #1:
Workers are grouped by their areas of expertise, and are placed on at least one team. 20 are on the marketing team, 30
are on the Sales team, and 40 are on the Vision team. 5 workers are on both the Marketing and Sales teams, 6 workers
are on both the Sales and Vision teams, 9 workers are on both the Marketing and Vision teams, and 4 workers are on all
three teams. How many workers are there in total?
Translating:
"are placed on at least one team": members of none =0;
"20 are on the marketing team": M=20;
"30 are on the Sales team": S=30;
"40 are on the Vision team": V=40;
"5 workers are on both the Marketing and Sales teams": MnS=5, note here that some from these 5 can be the members of Vision
team as well, MnS is sections 3 an 4 on the diagram (assuming Marketing=A, Sales=B and Vision=C);
"6 workers are on both the Sales and Vision teams": SnV=6 (the same as above sections 2 and 4);
"9 workers are on both the Marketing and Vision teams": MnV=9.
"4 workers are on all three teams": MnSnV=4, section 4.
Question: Total=?
Applying first formula as we have intersections of two groups and not the number of only (exactly) 2 group members.
Total=M+S+V-(MnS+SnV+SnV)+MnSnV+Neither=20+30+40-(5+6+9)+4+0=74.
Answer: 74.
Example #2:
Each of the 59 members in a high school class is required to sign up for a minimum of one and a maximum of three
academic clubs. The three clubs to choose from are the poetry club, the history club, and the writing club. A total of 22
students sign up for the poetry club, 27 students for the history club, and 28 students for the writing club. If 6 students
sign up for exactly two clubs, how many students sign up for all three clubs?
Translating:
"Each of the 59 members in a high school class is required to sign up for a minimum of one and a maximum of three academic
clubs"
Total=59;
Neither=0 (as members are required to sign up for a minimum of one);
"22 students sign up for the poetry club": P=22;
"27 students for the history club": H=27;
"28 students for the writing club": W=28;
"6 students sign up for exactly two clubs": {Exactly 2 groups members}=6, so sum of sections 1, 2, and 3 is given to be 6, (among
these 6 students there are no one who is the member of ALL 3 clubs)
"How many students sign up for all three clubs": question is PnHnW = x. Or section 4 =?
Apply second formula: T otal = P + H + W {Sum of Exactly 2 groups members} 2 PnHnW + Neither -->
59 = 22 + 27 + 28 6 2 x + 0--> x = 6.
Answer: 6.
Similar problem at: ps-question-94457.html#p728852
BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION:
Twenty-four dogs are in a kennel. Twelve of the dogs are black, six of the dogs have short tails, and fifteen of the dogs have
long hair. There is only one dog that is black with a short tail and long hair. Two of the dogs are black with short tails and do
not have long hair. Two of the dogs have short tails and long hair but are not black. If all of the dogs in the kennel hav e at least
one of the mentioned characteristics, how many dogs are black with long hair but do not have short tails?
Total dogs: T = 24;

Black dogs: B = 12;
With short tails: S = 6;
With long hair: L = 15;
Only one dog that is black with a short tail and long hair: ;
Only ;
Only ;
Only .
As we are giv en members of exactly 2 groups then use second formula:
\(Total=T+B+S -(Sum \ of \ Exactly \ 2 \ groups \ members)- 2*TnBnS + Neither\) -->

24 = 12 + 6 + 15 (x + 2 + 2) 2 1 + 0--> x = 3.
Hope it helps.
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bibha Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Aug 07, 2010 9:37 pm
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Bunuel,
This is great. Thank you soooo much
I hope not to make mistakes again with ov erlapping sets problem.
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nonameee Re: Overlapping Sets Problems [#permalink] Aug 09, 2010 1:45 pm
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As we are given members of exactly 2 groups then use second formula:
Joined: 23 Apr 2010

Thank you, Bunuel. I knew how to derive the formula. But I've only now realized that we have the number of exactly two
Posts: 580
groups and not two groups including the intersection of three sets. Very careless of me.
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Thank you again.
bumpbot Re: Twenty-four dogs are in a kennel. Twelve of the dogs are [#permalink] Aug 06, 2014 2:41 pm
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let x be n(B LH) which we need to find out

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The answer is indeed 3.

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Author Message integer n, the function h(n)

9 - x + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + x + 12 - x = 24 NEW!!! Tough and tricky 22

x=3 A man cycling along the road 22

REPORT A PROBLEM QUOTE

I am curious to know why the answer is not 7.

Total = Group1 + Group2 + Group3 - Group1/2 - Group1/3 - Group2/3 + 2(Group1/Group2/Group3)

Can someone point out my mistake?

REPORT A PROBLEM QUOTE

I am curious to know why the answer is not 7.

Total = Group1 + Group2 + Group3 - Group1/2 - Group1/3 - Group2/3 + 2(Group1/Group2/Group3)

Can someone point out my mistake?

I reckon the formula that you are using is not correct -

The formula to use is -

REPORT A PROBLEM QUOTE

Joined: 26 Jun 2009

REPORT A PROBLEM QUOTE

I am completely baffled by this question.

When I solve it using the formula:

PDF Creator - PDF4Free v3.0 http://www.pdf4free.com

When I solve it the same way as Bullet, I get 3.

Can someone please suggest, where the mistake is?

REPORT A PROBLEM QUOTE

When do we use these formula?>

Joined: 15 Apr 2010

I am completely baffled by this question.

When I solve it using the formula:

Can someone please suggest, where the mistake is?

When do we use these formula?>

My post from formulae-for-3-ov erlapping-sets-69014.html?hilit=exactly%20groups

Union_3sets.gif [ 11.63 KiB | Viewed 11308 times ]

Now how this formula is derived?

PDF Creator - PDF4Free v3.0 http://www.pdf4free.com

Now, how this concept can be represented in GMAT problem?

Similar problem at: ps-question-94457.html#p728852

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION:

Total dogs: T = 24;

As we are giv en members of exactly 2 groups then use second formula:

\(Total=T+B+S -(Sum \ of \ Exactly \ 2 \ groups \ members)- 2*TnBnS + Neither\) -->