Limiting the Gas Turbine Load and Operating at Base Load

Feasibility of operating the GT at lower load by limiting the baseload

IGV opening setting.

By Murali on 19 January, 2015 - 5:01 am

At one of our facilities, the GE Frame 6 machine has been operated at "Pre
select" Mode. At Present, GT is operated at 70% of base load (roughly). Due to
limitation, the GT should not required to be operated at 100% load. Operating
the GT at "Pre Select" mode causes the GT to be operated at lower GT Exhaust
Temperature (and also lower firing temperature). This has an impact on GT
heatrate/efficiency. Is it feasible to alter the baseload IGV opening setting to a
lower value and operate the Gas Turbine at Baseload Mode? Will this improve the
GT heat rate and also help us to maintain lower GT Power output?

By CSA on 19 January, 2015 - 9:11 am

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
No to all questions.

By murali_aramco on 19 January, 2015 - 10:06 pm

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
>No to all questions.
Thanks CSA....Why does the Exhaust Temperature with "Pre Select" model be
lower compared to Exhaust Temp Vs CPD Profile of typical part load curve?
WE have another machine where the machine capacity is limited to 90% of
baseload capacity to maintain spinning reserve. i.e., at baseload the IGV opening
is only 78%. However, this machine has been intentionally set in this way from
its commissioning to maintain some spinning reserve. Please share your
thoughts.

By CSA on 20 January, 2015 - 1:49 pm

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
Your post is not clear.
It's not known if the unit in question is operating in Simple- or Combined Cycle
mode, or if IGV Exhaust Temperature Control is enabled and active.
Regardless, there is no way to improve heat rate and/or gas turbine efficiency
when operating at Part Load versus Base Load. Not through normal means. Full
stop. Period. It's just not possible. The physics of the design of the gas turbine
won't allow it.
If the unit must be operated at Part Load, the efficiency and heat rate will be
what they will be. And short of redesigning the axial compressor and combustors
there is virtually nothing to be done other than keeping the inlet guide vanes and
axial compressor as clean as possible.

By murali_aramco on 20 January, 2015 - 11:22 pm

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
Thanks CSA....
What would be the shape of the IGV opening profile across different GT load
(typical) at part load operation with and without enabling Preselect mode for a
Frame 6 machine operating in combined cycle?
By CSA on 21 January, 2015 - 11:29 am
2 out of 2 members thought this post was helpful...
murali_aramco,
Preselect Load Control is a lazy man's way of changing load on a GE-design
heavy duty gas turbine. It is not usually configured properly and results in load
swings of +/- 1-2 MW around the intended load setpoint.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with heat rate and/or efficiency.
If a GE-design heavy duty gas turbine is being operated in combined cycle mode-
-which is another way of saying it's being operated in IGV Exhaust Temperature
Control mode--then the IGVs are being held closed during part load operation in
order to maximize exhaust temperature and steam temperature/production in
the HRSG ("boiler"). This has the effect of decreasing the gas turbine heat rate
and efficiency but increasing the heat rate and efficiency of the overall plant
cycle (GT and HRSG and ST (Steam Turbine)).
In Combined Cycle mode (IGV Exhaust Temperature Control mode) the IGVs are
held closed much longer during part load operation than they would otherwise
be--again to maximize gas turbine exhaust temperature. Gas turbines are mass
flow machines--meaning, the more mass (air and fuel) that flows through them
the more power they produce. So, by reducing the air flow the efficiency and
heat rate of the gas turbine are decreased.
If this is the way the turbine has to be operated in order to meet the plant needs
then the gas turbine efficiency and heat rate are going to be what they are when
operating under these conditions. If plant personnel are "challenged" to try to
improve heat rate and efficiency (and incentivized to do so through bonuses)
then the best things that can be done are to ensure that the contract is written
such that the operating conditions are taken into account (part load) and a
suitable baseline heat rate and efficiency condition is established (something
other than Base Load heat rate/efficiency, since the unit cannot ever hope to
achieve Base Load heat rate/efficiency when being operated at part load). And
then, the operators and maintenance crews have to work diligently to keep all
equipment and parts of the unit and its auxiliaries in the best and cleanest
conditions in order to operate as efficiently as possible for the way the plant has
to be operated.
The turbine control system, while a powerful thing, cannot be used to
compensate or make up for the design of the gas turbine when it's being
operated at part load to try to make the turbine heat rate and efficiency be as
close to Base Load conditions as possible. It just can't be done. You have to look
elsewhere for performance and heat rate and efficiency improvements--and I can
tell you from (painful) experience that HRSGs are extremely notorious for being
very poor on heat rate and efficiency, at any load/firing rate. There are likely
many more opportunities to improve the heat rate and efficiency of the HRSG
than there are for the GT.

By murali_aramco on 22 January, 2015 - 5:00 am

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
Thanks CSA for your genuine replies...I really enjoy reading your replies...
Your explanation has really coincided with my line of thought which is
improvement of Combined Cycle Efficiency with higher GT exhaust
Temperature...I had wrongly mentioned in my previous post by referring to the
GT heat rate improvement. Our intention is more to improve the Combined Cycle
Efficiency (in our case, it is Cogeneration and not the combined cycle. We use
the HRSG for generating steam for the refinery process). I could see that the GT
exhaust temperature at 70% load is extremely low with preselect mode as the
IGV is in full open position. If we can have of the lower opening of IGV, then it
might increase the GT Exhaust temperature and further enhance the HRSG
performance. The increase in GT exhaust temperature would also result in
lowering in the HRSG stack temperature thereby increase in the overall
efficiency. Am I correct in this point? Appreciate your patience.
By CSA on 22 January, 2015 - 10:38 am
4 out of 4 members thought this post was helpful...
murali_aramco,
Most GE-design heavy duty gas turbines have two "buttons" on the HMI display
to allow selection of "SIMPLE CYCLE" or "COMBINED CYCLE" modes. Sometimes
they're labeled "SIMPLE CYCLE" and "IGV EXH TEMP" control, or something
similar.
In "simple cycle" mode, the IGVs are left open until the exhaust temperature
reaches approximately 700 or 900 deg F (I can't recall which at this writing), and
then as the unit is loaded the IGVs open to maintain this temperature until they
are fully open. This means that the exhaust temperature will rise as the unit is
loaded until it reaches the defined temperature (700 or 900 deg F) and then will
maintain that temperature as the unit continues loading until the IGVs are fully
open. Continuing to load the GT will then cause the exhaust temperature to
increase until the unit finally reaches CPD-biased exhaust temperature control--
Base Load. (This modulation of the IGVs at a predetermined temperature is done
to prevent dynamic pressure pulsations in the combustors to minimize combustor
hot gas path part wear and damage. The HMI screen will usually indicate "IGV
Exhaust Temp Control" when the IGVs are opening while trying to maintain the
defined exhaust temperature, and that field will then go blank when the IGVs are
fully open.)
Combined cycle and cogeneration--as far as the GT is concerned--are the same
thing. In "combined cycle" or "IGV exhaust temperature control" mode, the IGVs
are held closed as the unit is loaded until the exhaust temperature reaches the
calculated exhaust temperature reference "limit"--signal name TTRX. This is the
maximum allowable exhaust temperature for the machine, which is a calculated
value which is never higher than the Control Constant TTK0_I, the "isothermal"
exhaust temperature limit (usually 1100 deg F, or 593 deg C). And, then as fuel
is added to the unit to increase load the IGVs are opened to maintain exhaust
temperature equal to TTRX, which, as CPD increases will begin to decrease from
the isothermal value, until the IGVs are fully open and the unit is on CPD-biased
exhaust temperature control--Base Load. The HMI display will indicate "IGV
Exhaust Temp Control" at all times during loading, until the unit reaches Base
Load (CPD-biased exhaust temperature control).
Units designed for simple cycle, or peaking, application which have no HRSG to
produce steam from the GT exhaust may not have these two buttons as
operating in "combined cycle" or "IGV exhaust temperature control" mode is
inefficient. Why heat the GT exhaust when it's just being directed to atmosphere
and not being used to produce steam--there's no reason to do so, especially
when it reduces unit heat rate and efficiency at Part Load.
Turbines which have a diverter damper to send the GT exhaust to either
atmosphere or an HRSG, or which exhaust directly into an HRSG, will usually
have these two buttons to allow the operations personnel to maximize exhaust
temperature to produce more/hotter steam at lower loads, or, if steam
production is not so important or the exhaust is being directed to atmosphere
through a diverter damper to minimize exhaust temperature to the extent
possible.
So, you should be looking for the "COMBINED CYCLE" or "IGV EXH TEMP"
buttons and making sure they are selected if you want to maximize exhaust
temperature during Part Load operation. However, you should be aware that the
IGVs will NOT close below 57 DGA (DeGrees Angle) even if "COMBINED
CYCLE"/"IGV EXH TEMP" is selected--they cannot close below 57 DGA when the
unit is at rated speed. So, the exhaust temperature will be what it will at light
loads--though it will be hotter sooner than if "SIMPLE CYCLE" was selected, and
it will be hotter longer than if "SIMPLE CYCLE" was selected.
If the "Main" ("Startup") HMI display does not have these two buttons, then the
IGV HMI display may have them. If you can't find the buttons on any display,
well, then, you will need to get someone to site to help with ensuring the
Speedtronic is properly configured to allow IGV exhaust temperature control, and
then enable or add the buttons to a display. I have been to some sites that
demanded IGV exhaust temperature control be disabled during start-up--even
though the unit exhausted into an HRSG. (Yes; there are lots of start-up and
operations managers who don't properly understand this function and its
usefulness and like to "flex their muscles" by forcing the OEM start-up engineer
to disable the function in front of their minions to show how powerful they
are....)
Also, sometimes the HRSG is not capable of the maximum allowable GT exhaust
temperature (1100 deg F, 593 deg C) and so IGV exhaust temperature control is
disabled for that reason.
So, you should be doing some homework to ensure the HRSG at your site is
capable of full GT exhaust temperature, and that everyone is aware of what you
are planning to do--before enabling IGV exhaust temperature control if it's not
enabled, or if you have to have someone come to site to assist with enabling and
putting the appropriate buttons on the display.
There is one more possible test you can try--presuming the HRSG is capable of
maximum GT exhaust temperature. Usually, on the IGV HMI display, there is a
button for "MANUAL IGV CONTROL." This and other related buttons can be used
to close the IGVs but only until the exhaust temperature reaches the calculated
exhaust temperature reference "limit" (TTRX). It can't be used to open the IGVs
more than the calculated IGV reference, only to close the IGVs to some position
less than the calculated IGV reference and only until the GT exhaust temperature
reaches the exhaust temperature reference "limit" (TTRX). You could see if this
would help maximize exhaust temperature--again, presuming the HRSG is
capable of the maximum allowable exhaust temperature (usually 1100 deg F, or
593 deg C). Just don't forget to disable Manual IGV control when finished with
your testing.
Finally, Preselect Load Control Mode has absolutely nothing to do with IGV
position or GT exhaust temperature. Nothing whatsoever. It's just a lazy man's
way of changing load and operating the GT by using load setpoints when
changing load.
Hope this helps! (By the way, if you like the posts--that is, if you find them
helpful--there is a 'thumbs-up' button you can use to indicate your like, or a
thumbs-down button to indicate your dislike.)

By murali_aramco on 25 January, 2015 - 2:45 am

1 out of 1 members thought this post was helpful...
Thanks CSA once again...
yes, as you had mentioned, the GTs are not operated to its full exhaust
temperature range. We need to explore the IGV exhaust temperature control
setting more. Yes, now i understand that the pre-select load operation alone has
nothing to do with lower GT exhaust temperature.

By murali_aramco on 8 February, 2015 - 5:40 am

Myself and the operator tried to search for the "arm" which would help us to
change the IGV Exhaust temperature control mode to "ON". But, we could not
find it in the MARK VI Screen (under Control/IGV Control). One of the Mark VI
trained operator says that he would be able to change it though it is not
displayed in the MARK VI Screen. Is this the case for all the Gas Turbines?
>yes, as you had mentioned, the GTs are not operated to its
>full exhaust temperature range. We need to explore the IGV
>exhaust temperature control setting more. Yes, now i
>understand that the pre-select load operation alone has
>nothing to do with lower GT exhaust temperature.
By CSA on 8 February, 2015 - 3:53 pm
1 out of 2 members thought this post was helpful...
murali_aramco,
I have been extremely remiss for not asking: How many (and which) of the
units at your site that we are discussing have DLN-I combustors?
Because, if any of the units we have been discussing have DLN-I combustors
then 'Manual IGV Exhaust Temperature Control' WILL NOT likely be available on
the IGV Control Display. Nor will 'IGV Exhaust Temperature Control' be an
operator-selectable function on the HMI. Most GE-design heavy duty gas turbines
with DLN-I combustors have IGV Exhaust Temperature Control enabled at all
times--again, to help with maintaining the proper air/fuel mixtures in the
combustors at low loads (particularly in Premix Steady-State Combustion Mode).
If any of the units do NOT have DLN-I combustors then I have to believe--and
strongly suggest--that IGV control functions have been purposely
removed/disabled as appropriate--for some specific reason or reasons. Reasons
might include an inability of exhaust components (HRSG superheater; stack
components; exhaust transition duct components; static emissions reduction
components; etc.) to withstand the maximum possible exhaust temperature
which might be reaced with IGVs at relatively low positions at part load. I've
even had the "pleasure" of working at sites where some representative of the
owner/operator or member of the commissioning crew demanded, ..., er, ..., uh,
..., requested that some function--such as IGV Exhaust Temperature Control--be
permanently disabled. And, then learned that the site required that function and
was questioned about why it had been disabled. You might find some mention of
this in the Start-up Report prepared by the OEM/packager gas turbine
commissioning engineer.
At this point, without knowing which--if any--of the units we are discussing, and
without knowing a LOT more about the exhaust components of the GTs we are
discussing I am VERY STRONGLY recommending that you have a
knowledgeable GE-design heavy duty gas turbine controls engineer visit the site
and spend a few days getting familiar with the site, how it's operated, what the
exhaust components are, and then make some recommendation about what is or
isn't possible. This is the best way to ensure that no harm is being done to the
GT or the exhaust components by trying to enable some IGV function which was
likely disabled for some specific reason. Please, have someone come to site to
assist with this effort.
And, please write back to let us know how you fare with this effort.

By murali_aramco on 16 February, 2015 - 6:31 am

Thanks CSA.
The machine is neither provided with DLN-I combustor nor operating with
enabled IGV exhaust temperature mode. IGV at part load is always at its
maximum open position (84 Deg). Also, when the machine is operated at base
load the GT exhaust temperature is maintained above 1000 Deg F which
confirms that there is no apprehension with high GT Exhaust temperature. As
you had mentioned, we don't know why the machine is not provided the IGV
exhaust temperature enabling option be an operator-selectable function on the
HMI. Probably the machine is very old (1980s make).
We are exploring the possibility of undertaking site trial to operate the machine
at Manual IGV control to observe the performance at different IGV angle say 79
deg, 75 Deg and 70 deg. This might probably help in ascertaining the best lower
operating angle as a temporary measure to improve the efficiency. In the mean
time, the subject would be taken up with GE, who in general takes some time to
answer.

By CSA on 16 February, 2015 - 4:20 pm

Murali,
If these machines are old(er) they might not have modulated IGV control. That
was very common for early Frame 6s, especially ones that were only originally
expected to be operated in peaking application (simple cycle mode) OR which
were originally planned to be operated at Base Load instead of Part Load.
That may explain why you don't have the SIMPLE- or COMBINED CYCLE buttons,
and why there's no Manual IGV control function.
What you may need is to have the proper hydraulic actuator installed, and the
modulated IGV function enabled in the turbine control system.
I apologize profusely for not asking more questions about the turbines; it could
have saved a lot of time. In the future, when you post it would be very helpful if
you could tell us about the turbines at your site; while you work with them day in
and day out we don't. And, contrary to popular belief every Frame 6 is not like
every other Frame 6. Sometimes there are very subtle differences; other times,
the differences can be very great. The more information you can provide in your
original post the better and more concise your responses will likely be.

By murali_aramco on 16 February, 2015 - 10:00 pm

Thanks CSA...
I could see the option in HMI for "Manual IGV". You had mentioned in your post
that "no Manual IGV control function".
Regards
Murali

By Isioraye on 16 February, 2015 - 12:21 pm

You dont expect your IGV to be fully opened at 84 degrees when you are on
spinning reserve. Your IGV will open according to your load preselected value
and your load demand. The gas valves will tend o open so as to compensate for
the variations in the grid frequency while the IGV opens correspondingly though
not as spontaneous as the servo.

By glenmorangie on 16 February, 2015 - 11:06 pm

Only if you have IGV Temperature Control installed. Please read CSAs post
above.

By murali_aramco on 16 February, 2015 - 11:58 pm

with the preselect control and with disable IGV exhaust temperature control, the
machine is running at 84 deg even at partload.
> You don't expect your IGV to be fully opened at 84 degrees when you are on
spinning reserve. Your IGV will open
> according to your load preselected value and your load demand. The gas
valves will tend o open so as to compensate
> for the variations in the grid frequency while the IGV opens correspondingly
though not as spontaneous as the servo.