TexasPEExamDecoupling

August,2015

Concept

ThesystemoflicensingandregulationofProfessionalEngineersisintendedtoprotectthehealth,
safety,andwelfareofthepublicbyensuringthetechnicalcompetencyandprofessionalandethical
behaviorofpractitioners.Thepublicisbetterprotectedifmorepracticingengineersarelicensedunder
thisframework.Therefore,itiscriticaltoconsiderwaystoencourageandfacilitateengineering
studentsandnewengineerstopursuelicensurewithoutreducingtherequirementsforlicensure.

Manyengineeringgraduatesstartonthepathtowardlicensurebutdonotcompletetheprocess.
RecentNCEESdataforgraduatesofsixofthelargestengineeringprogramsintheUS(20112013)
indicatesthatonly45%ofcivilengineeringgraduatesactuallytakethePEexamforlicensure.That
numberdecreasessharplytoonly15%forElectricalandMechanicalgraduatesandisevenlessforother
disciplines.ThismaybeduetothecombinationofwaitingtotakethePEexamasthefinalhurdleof
thelicensingprocessandotherfactorssuchasindustrialexemptions.Promotinglicensureofqualified
engineersatearlystagesofanengineeringcareerwillkeepalargernumberengagedintheprocess.

AtitsMayStrategicPlanningmeeting,theTexasBoardofProfessionalEngineersidentifiedincreasing
thenumberoflicensedengineersacrossindustrysectorsanddemographiccategories(gender,age,
ethnicity,etc.)asaprimarygoalforthenextyear.

ThePEexamisoneoftheessentialqualifyingcredentialsforlicensure.Whileexperiencerecordsand
professionalreferencessupportanapplicantsprofessionalpractice,ethicsandcharacter,thePEexam
measurestechnicalcompetenceinagivenfield.PEexamsaredisciplinespecificandaredesignedto
assessaminimumthresholdofpracticalengineeringknowledgeacrossallaspectsofaparticularfieldof
engineeringforanengineerthathasasolideducationalbackgroundandhasworkedinthefieldfor
someperiodoftime.Eventhoughexamcandidateshavebeenworkinginthefieldandgainingpractical
experience,preparationfortheexamrequires,inmostcases,dedicatedstudy,exammaterials,and
reviewcourses.Theexamformatisacombinationofacademictopicsandpracticalapplication.NCEES
policiesexpectandallowexamineestousetechnicalreferencematerialssuchastextbooksandcode
manualsduringtheexamitself.Eveninthemoretraditionallylicensedengineeringfields(civil,
electrical,mechanical),engineeringexperiencegenerallybecomesmorefocusedovertimeandisnotas
broadastheinitialscopeoftheengineeringdegreeprograms.

Duetothetimeandefforttorefreshandprepareforthelicensureexam,theexaminationprocessitself
cansometimesbeahurdleforthoseengineersthatarebeginningtheircareersandconsidering
pursuinglicensure.AllowingtheprocesstobemoreflexiblesothatpotentiallicenseescantakethePE
examattheoptimumtime(whentheyareready)insteadofonlyafterasetperiodoftime(4years
minimum),shouldkeepmoreengineeringgraduatesandEngineersInTrainingengagedintheprocess
andresultinmorequalifiedlicensedengineers.

Itiscriticaltopointoutthatthischangewouldnotresultinareductionoftherequirementsfor
licensure.Allthreecomponentsforlicensure(Education,ExperienceandExams)mustbecompleted
priortoalicensebeinggranted.

Itmayprovideameasureofconvenienceforpotentiallicenseeswhoseworkexperience
mightbenarrowlyfocusedandwhomightbemoreapttotaketheexamearlier.This
couldencouragethelicensureofmoreengineers.Forayoungengineerwhopassesthe
examearly,thelikelihoodthatheorshewillbecomeaprofessionalengineeris
significantlyincreased.NSPElettertoNCEESMay,2012

RequestedInput

AtitsMay2015meeting,theLicensingCommitteedirectedstafftocontactinterestedstakeholdersin
theengineeringcommunityofTexastogetfeedbackonthispotentialchange.Althoughsomemixed
commentswerereceived,themajorityofopinionwasfavorable.

ACECTexas(SteveStagner,President)

Thisissuewasdiscussedatourboardmeetinglastweekandthegroupdidnothaveanyproblemswith
theconcept.

TSPE(NancyBlackwell,P.E.,President)

TheTexasSocietyofProfessionalEngineersissupportiveoftheproposedchangethatwouldallowfor
theabilitytotaketheP&PexampriortocompletingtherequirementsfortheSER.

ASCE,TexasSection(CrespinGuzman,P.E.,ExecutiveDirector)

BasedontheresponsesreceivedandfurtherdiscussionatarecentExecutiveCommitteemeeting,the
majorityoftheTexasSectionASCEleadershipareopposedtothedecouplingproposalonthetimingand
takingofthePEexamaspresented.However,thiswasnotanoverwhelmingdisplayofnegative
sentiment,thoseopposedjusthappenedtooutnumberthoseinfavorofthechange.

Othercommentsfromindividuals

IpersonallyamagainstitIbelievetheoneofthepurposesoftheexamattheendofthetime
requirementistoillustrateyourabilitytoretainthenecessaryengineeringprincipleslearnedinschool
(andgainadditionalknowledgeoutsideofschool)throughyourtimepracticingprofessionally.

Ididnotkeepupwithwhenthecouplingstarted,butItooktheFEexaminthespring,1974andthe
PEexamin1974or1975.Ididnotapplyforlicensureforseveralyears,approximately1012,becauseit
wasnotarequirementformywork.IfIhadtowaitfor4yearstoapplyforthetest,Imightnoteverhave
appliedforlicensure.

InreferencetoyourJune5,2015,Ibelievethehealth,safety,andwelfareofthepublicarenotservedby
loweringthePElicenserigorbyallowingearlytakingofthePEExam.Ibelievethatallowingearly
takingofthePEExamwillhavenomeasurableimpactonthenumberoflicensedengineers.Passing
thePEExamrightaftercollegeiseasierbecausethetechnicalmaterialisstillfreshinthecandidates
minds.TakingtheExamseveralyearsaftercollegeisharderandisthereforeadiscouragementto
pursuingaPElicense.ButthePEExamshouldstillbetakenafter4yearsofexperiencebecausethe
Examdocumentsthatthecandidatehasretainedhis/hertechnicalknowledge.Butmoreimportantly,
passingthePEExamafter4yearsofexperienceshowsthatthecandidatehasmaintainedtheskillsand
initiativetostudy/reviewcomplextechnicalmaterialyearsaftercollege.Thisaspectof"study"years
aftercollegeiswhatIbelievemostintheprofessionhaveoverlooked.

...ifthepurposeoftheexamistodeterminewhatthecandidatehaslearnedacademically,then
decouplingisagoodideabecausetheinformationisstillfreshinthemindoftheapplicant.

YesIagreewithandbelievedecouplingtheexamisagoodthingbutiftheintentofthelawistoprotect
thepublicbylicensingcompetentengineers,theneliminatingtheindustrialexemptionand/orenforcing
ourexistinglawswouldgoalongwaytomotivatinglicensure.

IrecalltakingthePrinciplesandPracticeexamwhileingraduateschool.Thiswasabenefittome
whileIwasstillinanacademicenvironmentandhadrecentexperienceinallapplicableanalytical
methods.Ifonegoesintotheworkforceandwaitsafewmoreyears,theymaynotberegularlyusingall
oftheanalyticalskillsandneedtospendconsiderablymoretimebrushingup.

IpersonallytooktheFEexamthefallof1974andtheP&Pexam(asitwasknownthen)inthespringof
1975,bothduringmysenioryearofcivilengineeringstudyatTexasA&MUniversity.Ipassedboth
examsonmyfirstattemptandwasthankfultobeallowedtotakethetestswhileallthesubjectmatter
wasstillfreshonmymind.Through40yearsofpracticingengineeringIhavesinceobservedmany
youngengineerspreparingtotakethePEexamaftergainingtheir45yearsofexperience,asis
currentlyrequired.Manyoftheseindividualsdidsoatgreatpersonalsacrificeinbothcostandtime.
However,Ineverfeltanythingwasgainedbymakingthemwaittotest.Inmyopinion,iftheapplicant
feelsprepareduponcollegegraduationoranytimeduringtheperiodofgainingtheirexperience,they
shouldbeallowedtotest.Theproposedprocesschanges(3examattemptswithin4years,thenfulfilling
theexperiencerequirements)seemaveryreasonableapproachtome.

IamnotinfavorofthedecisiontochangetheprocessUltimately,IbelievethatthePElicenseserves
asasignofanengineerscommitmenttostandtakeresponsibilityforhisorherdesign.Increasingthe
numberofengineerswhogettheirlicensebyanymethodotherthantheengineerssimplyrecognizing
thevalueandpursuinglicensureontheirownwouldeventuallywaterdownthatimage.So,Ithinkthat
increasingparticipationintheprogramshouldcomenotfromchangingtheprocessbutfromchanging
theperceptionofthevaluederivedfromgettingthelicense.

NCEESandOtherStates

Fromasearlyas2000,NCEESmemberBoardshavebeendiscussingdecouplingexperienceandexams.
Changesweremadein2001and2003thatresultedinModelRulechanges,butexperiencewasstill
requiredpriortothePEexamuntil2014.AttheAugust2014annualmeeting,NCEESapprovedachange
toitsModelLawtodecoupleexperienceandtimingofthePEexam.

SeveralotherstateBoardshaveorplantoimplementthechangetoallowingthePEexamtobetaken
priortothecompletionoftheexperience.

CurrentlydoneinNevada,NewMexico,Kentucky,Louisiana,Illinois,Nebraska,SouthCarolina,
andWyoming
California(allowsPEexamandlicensureat2yearsnow)
Oklahoma,OregonandNorthCarolina(pendinglegislativechanges)
TennesseeandMaineconsidering

AddressingConcerns

11stateBoardshaveconsidereddecouplinganddecidednottoimplementatthistime.Someconcerns
wereexpressedinaletterfromtheSouthDakotaBoardtoNCEESdatedApril2014.Thefollowingisa
combinedlistofconcernscollectedfromvarioussourceswithTBPEstaffcommentsundereach.

Doesdecouplinglowerthestandardsorqualificationsforlicensure?
No.ByallowingthePEexamtobetakenearlier,thecurrentrequirementsforEducation,
EngineeringExperienceandExaminationsareadheredto.Theyareonlyappliedina
slightlydifferentorder.

Doesallowingtheexamtobetakenearlymakeiteasiertogetalicense?
No.Theissueaddressedbydecouplingisnottomaketheexamorlicenseapplication
processeasier.Itisspecificallyintendedtoaddresstheissueofconvenience.By
removingthetimingissue,morequalifiedindividualsshouldbeabletopursuelicensure.

DowecurrentacceptearlyP&Pexamstakeninotherstates?
Yes.IfanapplicantforlicensureinTexashaspassedanyoftheNCEESP&Pexams,we
acceptitregardlessofwhenitwastakenrelativetotheexperienceobtained.

IsntthisthewayitusedtobedoneinTexas?
Yes.Priortotheearly1990s,theP&Pexamwasstillnotrequiredinmanycases.
Engineerswhowerewilling,chosetotakethePEexamandcouldtakeitearly.Many
ofourcurrentlicenseestooktheexambeforeapplyingforlicensure.

IfthePEexamcanbetakenandpassedearly,isitdoingwhatitissupposedtodo?

 Yes.Theexamisdesignedtomeasureminimumtechnicalcompetence,notevaluate
experience(thisiswhatthewrittenexperiencerecordandPEreferencestatementsare
for).Whilesomefeelthatisshouldonlybeabletobepassedbyapersonwithfouryears
ofexperience,someapplicantscangaintheappropriateexperienceandknowledgeprior
tofouryearsandsuccessfullycompletetheexamination.Studiesshowthatthe
optimumtimeframefortheexaminationisatorafterfouryearswithalowerpassrate
priortofouryears,sotheexamisperformingasdesigned.

Completingthe4yearsofexperiencepriortotheexampromotestheimportanceofretaining
engineeringknowledgebeyondthedegreeandpromotesthereviewofpreviouslyacquired
knowledge.
PassingthePEexamrequiresadditionalstudyandpreparationinmostcases.Sincethe
examsarebroadinscope,mostexamineesrefreshtheireducationonsubjectsthatthey
donotuseregularlyinpractice.

TakingthePEexamearlyputsmorepressureontheexperiencereviewofanapplication.
TheTexasapplicationreviewcurrentlyplacesasignificantemphasisonthereviewof
experienceandwouldnotchangewithdecoupling.Texasdoesnotissuereciprocalor
comitylicensesbasedsolelyonalicenseissuedinanotherjurisdiction.Theexperience
evaluationwillcontinuetobeanessentialelementindetermininganapplicants
qualificationsforlicensure.

IftheFEandPEexamscanbetakensoclosetogether,isthereareasontohavetwoexams?Isit
challengeable?
TheFEandPEexamsarebothtechnicalexams,butdoservedifferentpurposes.TheFE
examisintendedtoassessbasicacademicknowledge(math,science,basicengineering)
andistargetedforacollegeseniororrecentgraduate.ThePEexam,whilestillbeing
technical,isintendedtoassessamorecomplexsetoftechnicalabilities.Thequestions
aredevelopedtoassessathoroughunderstandingofengineeringconceptsinpractical
andcomplexsituations.Thetimingoftheexamsshouldntaffectthepurposeandintent
ofeachexam.

WouldanearlyPEexamtakerbemoreapttostartpracticingengineeringwithoutalicense?
No.Oneofthemaingoalsofallowingtheexamtobetakenearlyistohelpemphasize
Licensureandtheassociatedethicalresponsibilities.SomeoneeagertotakethePE
examearlyismorelikelytorespectthelicensingprocessandethicalresponsibilities.

Schedule

AtitsMaymeeting,theLicensingCommitteedirectedstafftogatherstakeholderinput.

Staffhasputtogetherateamtodeveloptheproceduralenhancementsnecessarytoimplementthis
changeefficiently.Theteamhasmet6timestomapprocessesanddevelopprocedureandinformation
systemchanges.

Systemsandprocessesmustbeinplacewhenrulesareeffective.

BringstakeholdercommentsandrecommendationbacktoLicensingCommitteeandBoardfor
approval.
MoveforwardwithITdevelopment
BringdraftrulestoLicensingCommitteeforapprovaltopublishrulechangesinTheTexas
RegisterforcommentattheNovember2015Boardmeetings.
EvaluateadditionalcommentsandmakenecessaryrevisionsforpossibleadoptionbytheBoard
atitsFebruary2016meetings.
Effectivedatewouldbe20daysafteradoption(March,2016).

Relatedexamdates:

PEExamadministrationssetforOctober2015andApril2016,unaffectedbythischange
EffectivedateofrulesinMarch2016willbeadequateleadtimebeforeOctober2016examdate
o ApplicationdeadlineJuly2016
o ExamregistrationdeadlineSeptember2016
o Ifapproved,rulechangeswouldallowearlytakersfortheOctober2016exam

ProposedProcessChanges

Staffhasmettodeveloptheattachedflowchartsanddevelopeddraftrulerevisionsthatwouldbe
requiredtoimplementthechanges.

Theproposedmodifiedprocess:

ProvidesfortwopathstoPEexamApproval:
o InitialEITstatus;or
o ApplicationApproval(similartothecurrentprocess)
MakesEITregistrationarequirementforearlyexamapprovaltoestablishidentityandverify
educationcredentialsandFEexam
Allows3examattemptswithin4yearsregardlessofdiscipline(3foreachStructuralcomponent)
Currentprocessallows4consecutiveexamopportunitieswithnoexceptions
Sets8yeartotalforexamapproval
NotpassingearlyPEexamwouldrequirewaitinguntilfullexperienceisobtained(4or8
years),application,reviewandapproval

 NotpassingPEexamafterapprovalwouldrequireobtaininganadditionalyearofengineering
experience(notjustmoretime),newapplication,reviewandapproval

David Howell

From: Cres Guzman

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 9:03 AM
To: David Howell
Subject: FW: Input requested re: Decoupling concept

Iforgottocopyyouonthistransmittal.

From: Cres Guzman

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 8:54 AM
To: 'Lance Kinney'
Subject: Input requested re: Decoupling concept

TheleadershipoftheTexasSectionofASCEhasreviewedandcommentedontheTBPEwhitepaperexplainingthe
Decouplingconceptasitpertainstolicensurerequirements.Basedontheresponsesreceivedandfurtherdiscussionat
arecentExecutiveCommitteemeeting,themajorityoftheTexasSectionASCEleadershipareopposedtothedecoupling
proposalonthetimingandtakingofthePEexamaspresented.However,thiswasnotanoverwhelmingdisplayof
negativesentiment,thoseopposedjusthappenedtooutnumberthoseinfavorofthechange.

OneofASCEsthreestrategicinitiativesistoRaisetheBar,basedonouranalysisthatconcludedthatabachelorsplus
30hoursisrequiredtoadequatelycoverthebodyofknowledgeforpracticingcivilengineers.TheDecouplingconcept
wasviewedbysomeASCEmembersasaloweringofthebar.Althoughourmembershipwassplitbetweenopposingor
favoringtheDecouplingconcept,therewasatotalconsensusandsupportwithregardstokeepingtheexperience
requirementasnotedpriortoreceivingthelicensetopractice.Thiscomponentwasastrongitemofinterestwhen
discussingthedecouplingandthetimingoftakingthetest.

PleaseletusknowifyourequireanyadditionalinformationfromtheSectionandwelookforwardtofuture
opportunitiestoprovideinputtoTBPEonissuesaffectingourengineeringprofession.

Crespin Guzman, PE
Executive Director
Texas Section ASCE
1524 S. IH 35, Suite 180
Austin, Tx. 78704-2615

512-472-8905 Office
512-506-1918 Cell

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