Electronic Ear in SAG Mill

Electronic ear in SAG mill
Apr 6, 2000 9:22 am, by Vega M. Hernan M.

Subject : Sensors
from the Automation List dept.
Text :
Hi List: We have an application in a SAG Mill where we have installed an electronic ear in
order to listen the noise produced by the balls falling to the bottom of the mill. Our idea is to
convert the amplitude and frequency of noise to a 4-20mA signal (or something else) in order
to determine if the ball is crushing the mineral or the mill lining. Any help will be appreciated.
Many thanks, Hernan Vega
Reply
· Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

Aug 6, 2004 12:35 am, by Jaime Ramirez
Hi:
Check this out:
http://www.digitalcontrollab.com
Product name: Millscan
We have used it for Ball Mill control, EXCELLENT RESULTS.
BR
Reply

Aug 25, 2004 9:53 pm, by Shamim.
Hi:
Can the control based on the electronic ear be added to conventional SAG Mill bearing
pressure based control for better performance?
Reply

May 10, 2004 3:40 pm, by Pavel Tatarintsev
Dear Hernan,
We have tested the technology using power measurement and it spectrum to control a mill.
You can write me at pavelt@comch.ru
Sincerely,
Pavel Tatarintsev
Reply
 Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

Apr 10, 2000 12:11 pm, by Mark Fairbaugh
We use electronic ears here on Sag mills. The signal is converted to 4-20 and goes into
the PLC and is transfered to the DCS and Expert Control system. The sound is used to
check that the balls are hitting material and not the liners. If the sound level increases
the feed is increased to bed the mill some more to prevent liner damage due to the
balls striking against them. The ears and transmitters are from Svedala. They do not
read a decibel reading but an arbitrary number based on the level of sound that we
have determined to be our baseline. If you have any questions about the setup or
operation please let me know. Regards, Mark Fairbaugh PT Newmont Nusa Tenggara
Sr. Process Control Engineer e-mail: mfai0097@corp.newmont.com Phone: (62)-370-
636-318 Ext. 47948
Reply
o Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

Jul 21, 2000 4:41 pm, by Jeff Leonard
Nordberg is a supplier of all types of grinding mill systems to the gloabl
mining market. We supply acoustic response based control systems for
tumbling mills of all types, including SAG mills as an aftermarket product.
You can contact me for more information. jeff.leonard@nordberg.com
Reply
Apr 7, 2000 5:25 pm, by David Fernandez
This application of electronic ear is used to control the mass of mineral that is possible
to mill. It's usually used in cement industry. This control loop is inverted; so if the
sound decressed, the feed of the mill has to decressed. Also this measure is used to
generate an alarm that cut the feed of the mill to avoid excess of mineral. Another
strategy to control the mineral feed is to control the electric current or power of the
elevator. The current is a meassure of mineral mass milled. If you control the current
with the mill feed you'll reach a stability of the mill. The electronic ear is a good
measure for alarm but not for control. I hope i can help you David Fernandez de
Miguel Madrid . Spain e-mail: david.fernandez@powertec.es
Reply
Apr 10, 2000 12:13 pm, by Tony Firth
David Fernandez de Miguel wrote: >........The electronic ear is a good measure
for alarm but not for control........ Have heard of many successful control
applications of this technology used anywhere material is being crushed e.g. in
Ball Mills. General concept: Large "rocks" tumbling around are very rich in
Low Frequency but as milling progresses and "rocks" are pulverized into
"sand" the frequency shifts to the upper end of the audio spectrum. An "1/3
Octave Filter" matched to the acceptable "Voiceprint" of the process is then
used as an endpoint detector. Regards, Tony Firth, Electrical Eng., Quester
Technology Inc.,Fremont,CA
Reply
Apr 7, 2000 11:34 am, by Phil Corso
In response to Vega M. Herman's query. Although you are looking for an electronic
method, the folllowing may be useful: Many, many, years ago while working in a
gypsum plant, I remember that tube mill crushing plant operators would listen to noise
emissions via a block of wood held between the ear and the machine. Perhaps
signature analysis of an audio signal, vibration sensor, or the drive motor's load current
(or power) might provide you with the information you seek. Regards, Phil Corso, PE
Trip-A-Larm Corp
Reply
Apr 10, 2000 11:26 am, by Weir, Bryan
As an apprentice electrician I was taught to use the same method to check for
wear on bearings on electric motors. We didn't use a block of wood. We
actually used a large screw driver (with the blunt end to the ear of course!). If
the blade of the screwdriver is placed on the equipment casing, near the
bearing, and the handle pressed against your earhole, you can get a good idea
of the condition of the bearing. This may have been the first high-tech
condition monitoring tool. NOT!
Reply
Further to my earlier reply to Vega M. Hernan's query: I also remember a very
detailed, but fascinating, mathematical analysis of the ball & ore movement
thru the mill and its impact on the drive motor and power transmission train
(motor, gearbox, drive shaft). It was presented in a monthly magazine related
to the materials handling industry. Unfortunately, I can't recall the article title
nor the magazine. The period was between 1955 and 1960. Regards, Phil
Corso, PE Trip-A-Larm Corp
Reply
Apr 7, 2000 8:58 am, by Mark Blunier
You might want to take a look at Milltronics Senaco. Mark Blunier Any opinions
expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the company.
Reply
Apr 6, 2000 4:38 pm, by Al Pawlowski, PE
Sounds like a fun experiment. Lots of low-cost (some free) audio range spectrum
analysis programs for PC's out there. Search some of the on-line download libraries.
One of these might be worth trying to see if you can get some correlations to work
with.
Reply
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Common Vibration Formulas
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Return to the Vibration Analysis Reference Articles Index
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Address: 120 South 7th Street - Terre Haute, IN 47807
Electronic ear in SAG mill

Apr 6, 2000 9:22 am, by Vega M. Hernan M.
Subject : Sensors
from the Automation List dept.
Text :
Hi List: We have an application in a SAG Mill where we have installed an electronic ear in
order to listen the noise produced by the balls falling to the bottom of the mill. Our idea is to
convert the amplitude and frequency of noise to a 4-20mA signal (or something else) in order
to determine if the ball is crushing the mineral or the mill lining. Any help will be appreciated.
Many thanks, Hernan Vega
Reply

Aug 6, 2004 12:35 am, by Jaime Ramirez
Hi:
Check this out:
http://www.digitalcontrollab.com
Product name: Millscan
We have used it for Ball Mill control, EXCELLENT RESULTS.
BR
Reply

Aug 25, 2004 9:53 pm, by Shamim.
Hi:
Can the control based on the electronic ear be added to conventional SAG Mill bearing
pressure based control for better performance?
Reply
May 10, 2004 3:40 pm, by Pavel Tatarintsev
Dear Hernan,
We have tested the technology using power measurement and it spectrum to control a mill.
You can write me at pavelt@comch.ru
Sincerely,
Pavel Tatarintsev
Reply

Apr 10, 2000 12:11 pm, by Mark Fairbaugh
We use electronic ears here on Sag mills. The signal is converted to 4-20 and goes into
the PLC and is transfered to the DCS and Expert Control system. The sound is used to
check that the balls are hitting material and not the liners. If the sound level increases
the feed is increased to bed the mill some more to prevent liner damage due to the
balls striking against them. The ears and transmitters are from Svedala. They do not
read a decibel reading but an arbitrary number based on the level of sound that we
have determined to be our baseline. If you have any questions about the setup or
operation please let me know. Regards, Mark Fairbaugh PT Newmont Nusa Tenggara
Sr. Process Control Engineer e-mail: mfai0097@corp.newmont.com Phone: (62)-370-
636-318 Ext. 47948
Reply

Jul 21, 2000 4:41 pm, by Jeff Leonard
Nordberg is a supplier of all types of grinding mill systems to the gloabl
mining market. We supply acoustic response based control systems for
tumbling mills of all types, including SAG mills as an aftermarket product.
You can contact me for more information. jeff.leonard@nordberg.com
Reply
Apr 7, 2000 5:25 pm, by David Fernandez
This application of electronic ear is used to control the mass of mineral that is possible
to mill. It's usually used in cement industry. This control loop is inverted; so if the
sound decressed, the feed of the mill has to decressed. Also this measure is used to
generate an alarm that cut the feed of the mill to avoid excess of mineral. Another
strategy to control the mineral feed is to control the electric current or power of the
elevator. The current is a meassure of mineral mass milled. If you control the current
with the mill feed you'll reach a stability of the mill. The electronic ear is a good
measure for alarm but not for control. I hope i can help you David Fernandez de
Miguel Madrid . Spain e-mail: david.fernandez@powertec.es
Reply
Apr 10, 2000 12:13 pm, by Tony Firth
David Fernandez de Miguel wrote: >........The electronic ear is a good measure
for alarm but not for control........ Have heard of many successful control
applications of this technology used anywhere material is being crushed e.g. in
Ball Mills. General concept: Large "rocks" tumbling around are very rich in
Low Frequency but as milling progresses and "rocks" are pulverized into
"sand" the frequency shifts to the upper end of the audio spectrum. An "1/3
Octave Filter" matched to the acceptable "Voiceprint" of the process is then
used as an endpoint detector. Regards, Tony Firth, Electrical Eng., Quester
Technology Inc.,Fremont,CA
Reply
In response to Vega M. Herman's query. Although you are looking for an electronic
method, the folllowing may be useful: Many, many, years ago while working in a
gypsum plant, I remember that tube mill crushing plant operators would listen to noise
emissions via a block of wood held between the ear and the machine. Perhaps
signature analysis of an audio signal, vibration sensor, or the drive motor's load current
(or power) might provide you with the information you seek. Regards, Phil Corso, PE
Trip-A-Larm Corp
Reply
Apr 10, 2000 11:26 am, by Weir, Bryan
As an apprentice electrician I was taught to use the same method to check for
wear on bearings on electric motors. We didn't use a block of wood. We
actually used a large screw driver (with the blunt end to the ear of course!). If
the blade of the screwdriver is placed on the equipment casing, near the
bearing, and the handle pressed against your earhole, you can get a good idea
of the condition of the bearing. This may have been the first high-tech
condition monitoring tool. NOT!
Reply
Further to my earlier reply to Vega M. Hernan's query: I also remember a very
detailed, but fascinating, mathematical analysis of the ball & ore movement
thru the mill and its impact on the drive motor and power transmission train
(motor, gearbox, drive shaft). It was presented in a monthly magazine related
to the materials handling industry. Unfortunately, I can't recall the article title
nor the magazine. The period was between 1955 and 1960. Regards, Phil
Corso, PE Trip-A-Larm Corp
Reply
Apr 7, 2000 8:58 am, by Mark Blunier
You might want to take a look at Milltronics Senaco. Mark Blunier Any opinions
expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the company.
Reply
Apr 6, 2000 4:38 pm, by Al Pawlowski, PE
Sounds like a fun experiment. Lots of low-cost (some free) audio range spectrum
analysis programs for PC's out there. Search some of the on-line download libraries.
One of these might be worth trying to see if you can get some correlations to work
with.
Reply

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Electronic ear in SAG mill

Apr 6, 2000 9:22 am, by Vega M. Hernan M.

· Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

Check this out:

Product name: Millscan

We have used it for Ball Mill control, EXCELLENT RESULTS.

· Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

· Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

You can write me at pavelt@comch.ru

 Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

o Re: Electronic ear in SAG mill

Vibration Severity Chart