Page 1

1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF FULTON

STATE OF GEORGIA
2

3 ELIZABETH DENISE CALDON, )

)
4 Plaintiff, )
) CIVIL ACTION FILE
5 vs. )
) NO . : 2009CV165267
6 BOARD OF REGENTS UNIVERSITY )
SYSTEM OF GEORGIA, )
7 )
Defendant. )
8

10
DEPOSITION OF DOREEN POITEVINT
11 FEBRUARY 8, 2010
2:15 P.M.
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25 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS

The Pinnacle, Suite 500 • 3455 Peachtree Rood, N.E. • Atlanta, Georgia 30326 • www.premierreporting.com

800-317·5773
 Page 2 Page 4
1 INDEX TO EXHIBITS 1 Georgia Evidence Law.
2 EXHIBIT PAGE 2 We discussed signature before we went on the
3 1 Members of Board - Board of Regents 10 3 record . My understanding is the witness will read and
4 2 Letter dated 10/9/08 26
5 3 Application for Review 59 4 sign. Will the transcript be sent straight to the witness
6 4 Agenda - Committee on Organization 5 or to your office?
and Law, 11/10/08 62 6 MS. HYMAN : I'm not sure yet. We can
7 7 discuss it afterwards.
5 Meeting Minutes 62 8 MR. MOORMAN: Okay.
8
6 Letter dated 3/11/09 74 9 MS. HYMAN: We will find out what she
9 10 prefers.
7 Seasonal Leave Report 8/08 11 MR. MOORMAN: And any notary is fine on
10 David A. Bell, Macon State 12 signature.
College 92 13 MS. HYMAN: Yes.
11
12 14 MR. MOORMAN: can you administer the oath?
13 *** 15 DOREEN POITEVINT,
14 16 having been first duly sworn, was deposed and testified as
15 17 follows:
16 18 EXAMINATION
17
18 19 BY MR. MOORMAN:
19 20 Q Ms. Poitevint, how are you today?
20 21 A Good.
21 22 Q We just met for the first time. I'm Chris
22 23 Moorman, and I represent Denise caldon in this lawsuit
23
24 24 against the Board of Regents.
25 25 Have you ever given a deposition before?

Page 3 Page 5
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 1 A No.
2 2 Q Okay. It is not my intent to trick you with
3 On behalf of the Plaintiff: 3 questions, but like many lawyers, I'm sure I will ask
4 Christopher G. Moorman, Esq. 4 questions, and I'm certainly capable of asking questions,
5 On behalf of the Defendant: 5 that are vague or confusing for whatever reason. If I do
6 Laura W. Hyman, Esq. 6 that, let me know, and I will do my best to rephrase or
7 Also Present: 7 repeat the question. Okay?
8 Elizabeth Denise caldon 8 And it's always better with depositions if
9 9 you can give a verbal response like yes or no rather than
10 10 shak'ing or nodding your head, and it will make for a
11
. 11 cleaner transcript. Ol(a.y?
12 12 And it's not an endurance contest. Feel
13 13 free to let us know if you want to take a break.
14 14 What is your full name for the record?
15 15 A Doreen Stiles Poitevint.
16 16 Q And your home address is where?
17 17 A 2001 Twin Lakes Drive in Bainbridge,
18 18 Georgia.
19 19 Q What county is that?
20 MR. MOORMAN: This will be the deposition of 20 A Decatur County.
21 Doreen Poitevint taken by and on behalf of the Plaintiff 21 Q And your employer is who?
22 in the above-titled action. Deposition Is being taken 22 A Well, I'm here with -- for the Board of
23 pursuant to agreement of counsel and, I believe, notice 23 Regents.
24 and Is taken pursuant to the Georgia Civil Practice Act 24 Q Do you consider the Board of Regents to be
125 for all purposes under the Act and for all purposes under 25 an employer?

2 {Pages 2 to 5)
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 Page 6 Page8
1 A No. It's just a -- it's a job that I have, 1 district.
2 but I don't do any other outside work. I'm a homemaker. 2 Q All right. And as I understand It, you were
3 Q Are you compensated by the Board of Regents? 3 or are a vice chair of another organization within the
4 A Am I compensated ·- we get reimbursement for 4 Board of Regents; is that correct?
5 lodging and food. 5 A Organization and law.
6 Q Other than that, though, there's no -- 6 Q Is It the organization and law committee?
7 A No. 7 A Yes.
8 Q -· compensation that goes along with the job 8 Q Are you still the vice chair of that?
9 title? 9 A I am the vice chair now. I was not the vice
10 A Huh-uh. 10 chair -- the vice chair Is a new appointment at the
11 Q How does one become a Regent? 11 beginning of our year, which starts in July.
12 A They are appointed. 12 Q Okay. So you became the vice chair of the
13 Q How is that? 13 Organization and law committee when?
14 A You are appointed by the governor. 14 A In August.
15 Q And you were appointed when? 15 Q Of what year?
16 A 2003. 16 A This last year.
17 Q Okay. And that was by Governor Perdue? 17 Q 2009?
18 A correct. 18 A Yes.
19 Q And so who are your employers, or who is 19 Q And what is your role and what are your
20 your employer? 20 duties and responsibilities as the advice chair of the
21 Do you have an employer? 21 organize law committee?
22 A Well, I consider the State of Georgia my 22 A If the chair was not present, I would be the
23 employer. 23 one who would conduct the meeting, chair the meeting.
24 Q Okay. Does the state of Georgia compensate 24 Q When you say "the meeting" --
25 you? 25 A Our committee meeting.

Page 7 Page~
1 A (Witness shaking head negatively.) 1 Q As it would routinely occur?
2 Q Do you have any other employers, other than 2 A Yes.
3 the state of Georgia? 3 Q And what is the - what matters fall within
4 A Huh-uh. 4 the purview of the organization law committee within the
5 Q You have to make sure that you say yes or 5 Board of Regents?
6 no. 6 A Matters that are handled •• that are handled
7 A Excuse me. No. 7 by presidents that we end up seeing.
8 Q Do you have any other jobs, other than 8 Q When you say "presidents," you mean college
9 regent? 9 presidents within the system?
10 A No. 10 'A Absolutely. Yes.
11 Q Okay. How much do you - how much time do 11 Q And what sort of matters are those?
12 you spend in connection with your Regent or Board of 12 A Usually, they have to do with personnel
13 Regents duties? 13 matters.
14 A Totally varies. 14 Q Sure.
15 Q What would be - give me some idea. 15 A But not always.
16 A I would say every day going over the 16 Q What other ·• just in terms of categories,
17 correspondence that we have and trying to do the reading 17 what other matters does that committee handle, other than
18 that I do, I would spend a minimum of an hour. Sometimes 18 personnel matters?
19 I would spend several hours. 19 A Well, we really, really do try to limit
20 Q So some amount of time usually on a daily 20 that. There are a lot of things like grades and college
21 basis? 21 admittance we do not take care of. So a lot of times they
22 A Yes. Absolutely. 22 are personnel matters. Occasionally, there will be a
23 Q And what Is your formal title within the 23 matter with a student as to whether the student •• if he
24 Board of Regents? 24 was - if he was dismissed, and he didn't feel like the
25 A I represent the second congressional 25 reasons were just.
. I
3 (Pages 6 to 9)

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1 Q Okay. Dismissal from a school maybe? 1 Anything that we've discussed Is privileged. So when you
2 A Uh-huh. 2 answer the question, go ahead and tell him any documents
3 Q And how did you become the advice chair? 3 that you may have looked at, any notes you may have looked
4 A I was asked to be the advice chair by the 4 at, but nothing that you and I have discussed.
5 chairman of the board. 5 BY MR. MOORMAN:
6 Q Okay. And had you served on that committee 6 Q I understand you are represented here today
7 for some period of time? 7 by Ms. Hyman and her of!ice, and your communications with
8 A Yes. Uh-huh. 8 her and her office would be privileged.
9 Q Okay. How long had you served on that 9 The question really is designed to -- so
10 committee? 10 that I can understand what documents, if any, and
11 A Since I became a Regent. 11 materials that you looked at.
12 Q Okay. Which was since 2003? 12 A No, no documents.
13 A Uh-huh. 13 Q All right. So other than speaking with an
14 Q Okay. Let me show you what we'll mark as 14 attorney, you didn't look at any documents or material to
15 Exhibit No. 1. 15 prepare?
16 (Whereupon, marked by the court 16 A No. No.
17 reporter for Identification 17 Q Do you recall, Ms. Poitevint, when was the
18 purposes, Exhibit No. 1.) 18 earliest day when you spoke with any attorney about Ms.
19 THE WITNESS: I'm thinking about It. I 19 caldon or her lawsuit or her allegations against the Board
20 think it was 2000 -- I think it was January 2004 maybe 20 of Regents? Just dates is really --
21 when I became a Regent. 21 A Maybe -- maybe a month ago.
22 BY MR. MOORMAN: 22 Q All right. So earlier than approximately a
23 Q A Regent. Okay. 23 month ago you had not spoken with any lawyers --
24 A I think so. 24 A No.
25 Q And that's a good point. With any of your 25 Q -- about this case?

Page 11 Page 13
1 answers to my questions, if you recall later on in your 1 Okay. And make sure I'm finished with my
2 deposition that something needed to be changed, feel free 2 question, if you will, before you answer, and that will
3 to stop me and make the correction. 3 make it easier for our court reporter. Thanks.
4 I'm going to show you, Ms. Poitevint, what 4 Have you spoken to -- other than Ms. Hyman
5 we've marked as Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 1 to your 5 and attorneys in her office, have you spoken to anyone
6 deposition. This is some biographical Information that we 6 else about your deposition here today or about the fact
7 pulled off the -- my office pulled off of the Internet in 7 that you would be giving a deposition?
8 connection with the Board of Regents. 8 A No.
9 My question for you is: Is the information 9 Q Do you have any notes? Did you ever make
10 contained about you accurate? 10 any' notes --
11 A Yes. .. 11 A No.
12 Q Are you familiar with this information? 12 Q -- about Denise caldon or her lawsuit --
13 Have you seen this before? 13 A No.
14 A About a year or two after I became a regent, 14 Q -- or the appeal of her termination or any
15 I came in and kind of tweaked the information. 15 conversations you had with her?
16 Q Is there any information about you in 16 A No.
17 Exhibit 1 there that is inaccurate? 17 Q Okay. And you say you don't have any kind
18 A Only the fact -- no. 18 of a file or anything like that --
19 Q All still accurate? 19 A No.
20 A Absolutely. 20 Q -- on this matter?
21 Q And is there any information that you've 21 A No.
22 reviewed in preparation for your testimony here today? 22 Q Do you know who -- I know you just met
23 A Is there any information that I have 23 Denise caldon today -•
24 reviewed? Laura and I have talked. 24 A I've not met her.
12s MS. HYMAN: Excuse me. Hold on one moment. 25 Q -- who is with me, obviously, today.

4 (Pages 10 to 13)

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 Page 14 Page 16
1 A Oh. You are -- oh. 1 case, and I started thinking, you know, it's very unusual
2 MS. CALDON: I'm Denise. 2 for me. The name sometimes I cannot remember, but the
3 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm sorry. You walked 3 circumstances of the cases I do remember. And so I don't
4 in the door, and I introduced myself as Doreen Poitevint. 4 know how long it was, maybe the first minute or so, and
5 I'm sorry. ' 5 then I remembered that was the meeting that I came In
6 MS. CALDON: That's okay. I saw your 6 late. We actually - it's not unusual when we leave our
7 picture. I recognized you. 7 larger meeting to go to committee meetings that some -- a
8 MR. MOORMAN: Off the record. 8 college president or somebody else will catch us and visit
9 (Off-the-record discussion.) 9 with us. But even more unusual that day was the fact that
10 BY MR. MOORMAN: 10 we moved our room from where we usually -- so...
11 Q Okay. So you had not met Denise Caldon 11 Q Usually meet?
12 prior to today, obviously? 12 A Anyway, we met in that room, and usually we
13 A No. 13 meet in the room on the 7th floor, and we've met In a room
14 Q Had you ever spoken to Denise Caldon prior 14 on the 6th floor. But today we met -- I mean, the day of
15 to today? 15 the meeting we met in the chancellor's conference room,
16 A She called me on the phone. 16 and I was late for the meeting, and it concerned me that I
17 Q And we will talk more about that in a little 17 couldn't remember what she was talking about.
18 while. 18 Q Okay. So I just want to back up and
19 All right. Do you know why Denise Caldon 19 understand a few things that you've indicated.
20 was -- departed employment at Macon State College? 20 I understood you to say that the knowledge
21 Do you have any knowledge of that? 21 you have about Ms. Caldon's employment situation and her
22 A I would say only any Information after our 22 appeal from the termination was gained by you after the
23 committee meeting. 23 committee meeting was dosed on or about November the 10th
24 Q I'm not sure I understand your answer. 24 of 2008?
25 So do you have knowledge of why Ms. Caldon 25 A Well, to tell you the truth, I'm not sure

Page 15 Page 17
1 departed employment from Macon State College? 1 about where the information came from. Usually, if we
2 A Only after our committee meeting because I 2 have a case that's brought from meeting over to the next,
3 don't remember hearing the case discussed. 3 we will have an update on how that case has gone, and I
4 Q And when you say "our committee meeting," I 4 can't Imagine, even though I don't remember any kind of
5 think I know what you mean, but for the record -- 5 date or any specifics, I can't imagine that sometime
6 A Our -- excuse me -- Organization and Law 6 during, let's say, it was last year that this came up.
7 Committee meeting. 7 I don't even remember the date of this, but
8 Q And specifically, are you referring to the 8 I can't imagine that we wouldn't have had some update on
9 meeting when Ms. Caldon's application for a review was to 9 this.
10 come up and be heard or addressed? 10 'Q Okay. And we'll get a little more into that
11 A Yes. 11 -- this topic in a little while.
12 Q Okay. But you don't recall that Ms. -- the 12 I was really just wanting to know about your
13 matter of Ms. Caldon's appeal came up at that meeting? 13 understanding of why Ms. Caldon had departed employment
14 A No. 14 from Macon State. Do you know why regardless of when,
15 Q I s that correct? 15 where or how you acquired that knowledge?
16 A It's correct. 16 A I'm just trying to figure out where my
17 MS. HYMAN: You may explain your answer if 17 information - where my information came from. I know the
18 you would like. 18 information had something to do with job related and being
19 THE WITNESS: Okay. A phone call was made 19 dismissed because usually this Is the nature of the cases,
20 to me by Ms. Caldon who intro'!uced herself. And if I 20 but--
21 recall correctly, she said, I want to talk to you or do 21 Q But you're not sure how you know what you
22 you remember the case that came up in the Organization and 22 know?
23 Law meeting or something. And I said, No, I don't, but 23 A No, and I feel sure it was through updates
24 I'll be glad to get back with you. 24 on the case.
25 And she started talking about, I guess, the 25 Q Okay. Regardless of when your knowledge
I
5 (Pages 14 to 17)

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 Page 18 Page 20
1 came to you, what Is your understanding of why Ms. caldon 1 A We are not where those go in the very
2 left Macon State College, or what is your best 2 beginning. Our legal department will look over those.
3 understanding? 3 Q Okay. When you say we're not Involved in
4 A Because of a dismissal. 4 the very beginning, our legal department looks over those,
5 Q Okay. And do you know why she was dismissed 5 I'm not sure I know what, you mean.
6 or why the dismissal occurred? 6 A Burns Newsome and Kimberly
7 A Job performance. 7 Ballard-Washington look over documents, look over the
8 Q Do you have any knowledge, Ms. Poitevint, of 8 cases.
9 the allegations In our lawsuit, in this lawsuit that Ms. 9 Q Before there is any presentation to the
10 caldon brought? 10 Board of Regents?
11 A No, I really don't. 11 A Absolutely.
12 Q You don't know why she is challenging her 12 Q And does that always happen with each and
13 termination in court? 13 every appeal or only on an occasion?
14 A Not really. 14 A No, I would think it would happen with every
15 Q Are you familiar with the Georgia Whistle 15 appeal.
16 Blower Act at all? 16 Q And I realize you can just speak from your
17 A I have heard of It. So far as specifics, 17 own experience, but it's your experience that the legal
18 no. 18 department and Mr. Newsome would review the appeal matter
19 Q Okay. Have you ever been Involved In a 19 and its accompanied documents and so forth before there is
20 Board of Regents matter or meeting where the topic of the 20 any kind of action taken by the Board of Regents?
21 Georgia Whistle Blower Act came up in connection with an 21 A Yes.
22 employee termination, or maybe there was perhaps a concern 22 Q Okay. As you understand It, the purpose of
23 whether an employee who was being terminated was being 23 Mr. Newsome's review Is to determine whether there is any
24 fired in violation of the Act? 24 validity to the appeal?
25 A It's very hard for me to -- because I am 25 MS. HYMAN: I object. Mlscharacterization

Page 19 Page 21
1 familiar with the term, as to whether something like that 1 of the testimony in that she said both Mr. Newsome and
2 had come up with -- had come up that I was involved with 2 Kimberly Ballard-Washington were involved in it.
3 the Board. I'm sorry. 3 MR. MOORMAN: Fair enough. All right.
4 Q That's okay. I know you've been to a lot of 4 BY MR. MOORMAN:
5 meetings and a lot of matters that have gotten addressed. 5 Q That office --
6 I'm just wondering, as you sit here today, 6 A Excuse me. Repeat it.
7 are you able to recall ever having a discussion about the 7 Q And that's a good point. There will be
8 Georgia Whistle Blower Act. 8 objections to certain questions, which there have to be so
9 A No specific discussion whatsoever. 9 lawyers can protect the record and make sure our
10 Q We've been talking about the Board of 10 objections are clear. Try to remember the question
11 Regents. For the record, what is the Board of Regents, 11 because in most cases you will probably need to answer it.
12 and what is its purpose as an organization? 12 What is the purpose of the review that is
13 A We are involved with the 35 public schools 13 done of the appeal matters of employment decisions and
14 that are in the state of Georgia. 14 termination decisions by Mr. Newsome and his office before
15 Q Okay. And that was my assumption. 15 it the presented to the Board?
16 I think my understanding was that the 16 A I would say to make sure that information is
17 Georgia Constitution puts the Board of Regents in charge 17 obtained. A lot of times I would assume that they would
18 of managing the affairs of our state colleges. Is that a 18 want to check out as much about the particular lawsuit or
19 fair generalization? 19 document that is being filed as they possibly could.
20 A Yes. 20 Q Is there any preliminary opinion or
21 Q As only a lawyer can say it? 21 conclusion or assessment that the Legal Affairs Office
22 And some of these questions, I know, may 22 provides before the matter is formally heard by the Board
23 sound silly, but what is the role of the Board of Regents 23 of Regents?
24 in reviewing applications for review by university system 24 A I would think so.
12s employees who have appealed their terminations? 25 Q Is that your experience?

6 (Pages 18 to 21)
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 Page 22 Page 24
1 A My experience is tf:te case Is brought to us. 1 an employment decision or a termination decision haye you
2 We hear the facts as presented. We ask queStions, and 2 been involved in looking at would you estimate? Do you
3 sometimes at the end of the deal, we'll ask for a legal 3 have any way to eStimate that?
4 opinion so far as the Board might be concerned. But 4 A I would have no way to eStimate whatsoever.
5 that's after we ask the questions, and a lot of times we 5 Q Would it be dozens, hundreds, thousands?
6 will feel comfortable giving our opinion. Sometimes we 6 I'm trying to get some idea for how many.
7 ask for more Information, and we ask their, you know, 7 A Well, I've -- over a hundred, maybe 150, but
8 legal opinion on it. 8 that is only a guesstimate.
9 Q Okay. What I would like to know Is does the 9 Q Sure. I understand.
10 Legal Affairs Office provide you or other folks on the 10 A Each meeting is totally different, and you
11 board with some kind of an opinion or preliminary 11 can have as few as four or five. Most of the time I would
12 assessment before the matter is formally presented in a 12 say our agenda would have at least maybe ten or twelve.
13 meeting? 13 Q You've been involved in many, many appeal
14 A No. We will have an agenda. 14 situations.
15 Q Right. 15 A Absolutely.
16 A No. 16 Q Can you think of an occasion, Ms. Poitevint,
17 Q So you won't have known anything about it? 17 where the Board of Regents in its review of a termination
18 A Not at all. 18 situation didn't seek to gain an understanding of why a
19 Q At least from the Legal Affairs Department? 19 particular aggrieved employee was terminated or asked to
20 A None at all. 20 resign?
21 Q Okay. So back to the question. What is the 21 A I think we always try to get as much
22 role of the Board of Regents jn reviewing applications for 22 information as we can.
23 review by aggrieved employees -- let me ask just some 23 Q Okay. And an understanding of why an
24 general queStions. 24 employee was terminated would be one of the things you
25 One is, why does the Board review employee 25 would want an understanding of typically?

Page 23 Page 2~
1 terminations? 1 A Absolutely.
2 A Because we're the -- we're kind of the last 2 Q Okay. And is part of the Board of Regents'
3 resort in that a lot of times if something can be 3 goal in reviewing employee terminations to determine
4 ascertained that it's better to go ahead and settle 4 whether the termination decision was appropriate?
5 something... But we are kind of the last statement that 5 A I wouldn't -- I would think so.
6 is made in regard to something. 6 Q Or whether the termination violates any or
7 And if we feel like we want to go ahead and 7 may violate any law like the Georgia Whistle Blower law?
8 say, Now, let's take it back and we want so and so to 8 A (Witness nods head affirmatively.)
9 review this again, we'll do it. I can't tell you just 9 Q Is that yes?
10 like a rubber stamp anything. 10 • A It is a yes, and as much information as we
11 Q Sure. - 11 can ever get on a case, I think we try to get until we
12 A Each case is taken on a different... 12 feel comfortable that maybe we have a handle on the case.
13 Q Is one of the reasons the Board of Regents 13 Q Okay. What sorts of things are important to
14 reviews applications for appeal in termination situations 14 the Board of Regents here when it reviews an application
15 to determine why a termination occurred? 15 for review in connection with an employee termination?
16 A If someone would choose to ask that, which I 16 A Whether it has any merit or not.
17 would say most of the time they would. 17 Q And what do you mean by "merit"?
18 Q So is it fair to say then that most of the 18 I think I know what you mean, but what do
19 time the Board of Regents is going to be interested in 19 you mean?
20 ascertaining why a particular employee who is appealing a 20 A Some of the cases -- after asking questions,
21 termination was terminated? 21 some of the cases are just pretty cut and dry, and some
22 A Possibly. 22 are not.
23 Q Can you envision or have you had experience 23 Q Okay. And are there any printed guidelines
24 in - I guess, just as far as background is concerned, how 24 or rules regarding how reviews of employment terminations
25 many employee -- how many applications of review involving 25 are to be conducted?
I
7 (Pages 22 to 25)
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 Page 26 Page 28
1 A Not that I've ever seen. 1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q Okay. 2 Q In other words, it could -- he's outlined
3 (Whereupon, marked by the court 3 several things. It could deny the application. It could
4 reporter for identification 4 remand the matter to the Institution, which means, I
5 purposes, Exhibit No. 2.) 5 guess, the college. It could review the application on
6 BY MR. MOORMAN: 6 the existing record. It could grant a hearing or take
7 Q I'm going to show you -- hand you what we'll 7 other action as it deems appropriate.
8 mark as Exhibit No. 2. 8 Is it your understanding those are all
9 And with all of the documents that we use, I 9 options available to the Board of Regents?
10 want you to make sure you take whatever time you need to 10 A Yes, and I believe that all of them have
11 review it. I don't want to rush you through anything. 11 been used at one time or another by the Board in dealing
12 You may know right away -- 12 with matters.
13 A Would you like me to go ahead and go over 13 Q Okay. Is It a goal for the Board of
14 this now? 14 Regents, Ms. Poitevint, for there to be a thorough and
15 Q If you don't mind. My question really is 15 complete consideration of each application for review?
16 going to be about the second and third pages of the 16 A I think so.
17 document. 17 Q Okay. Well, if you will, and we're just
18 And while she is looking at that, the 18 talking in just general about reviews of employment
19 document purports to be a letter from the Office of Legal 19 matters by the Board of Regents. Can you take me through
20 Affairs to Ms. caldon on October the 9th, 2008. 20 the mechanics and the procedures that are involved in when
21 Have you had a chance to look at Exhibit 2? 21 the Board of Regents hears an appeal of a termination
22 A (Witness nodding head affirmatively.) 22 matter?
23 Q Do you recognize the second and third -- or 23 A Right. As I said before, usually the cases
24 the attachment to the second and third pages of the 24 are divided. One lawyer just doesn't take them all. They
25 exhibit? 25 are divided. And the person who has handled the case will

Page 27 Page 29
1 A Uh-huh. 1 give a review of the facts related to what is being
2 Q And the second page is Article 8 regarding 2 brought before, and then we -- It is up to us to ask
3 appeals. Is that Article 8 from the Board of Regents 3 questions that we want to ask.
4 bylaws, do you know? 4 Q And then what happens -- after question and
5 A I can't tell you. 5 answer, what happens after that point?
6 Q And my question is: That two paragraphs 6 A It depends. Whether there's a consensus,
7 there, is that which deal with the, in very general terms, 7 then fine. If we want further discussion, we'll do that.
8 the right to appeal a termination decision? 8 If somebody wants to make a motion as to what needs to be
9 Do you know of anything else aside - are 9 done, it's not always handled -- the decision is not
10 you familiar with this couple of paragraphs here? 10 always handled in the same way.
11 A Not specifically, but that pretty much • 11 Q Okay. Are we talking about what happens in
12 sounds - 12 just the executive session part of the proceeding, or are
13 Q It's language you may have seen before? 13 we talking about what is happening in main committee
14 A Yes. 14 meeting before you break out into executive session?
15 Q Are you aware of anything else besides the 15 A Well, most of the session is executive
16 second and third pages of this exhibit which deal with the 16 session.
17 procedures that are to be used in connection with 17 Q So-
18 applications for review of employment termination 18 A If we have any discussion about, I guess,
19 decisions -- 19 other cases... But most of the time we are in executive
20 A No. 20 session.
21 Q -- decisions? 21 Q All right. So what you've just been
22 All right. And the letter, the October 9th 22 describing to me about someone relates the facts of the
23 letter from Mr. Newsome to Ms. Caldon, contemplates that 23 case, there's question and answer, and then there is, you
24 the Board of Regents has several options with respect to 24 know, perhaps a consensus formed. Is this all happening
125 its review of an employment matter; is that correct? 25 within -- ,

8 ( Pages 26 to 29)

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 Page 30 Page 32
1 A The executive session? 1 July, and each chairman will usually talk with our mem.bers
2 Q Yes, ma'am. 2 and say, Do you care to stay on the track where you are?
3 A Yes. 3 other members have been appointed at that time. A Regent
4 Q So how does the board arrive at a decision 4 will have something to say. I mean, it's always worked
5 with respect to these matters? 5 out okay with me, but say a specific Regent wants to be on
6 A Well, sometimes we feel like there is a 6 another track. They have the ability to either change
7 definite consensus. Sometimes we will say to our legal 7 tracks or be in an area that they might feel more familiar
8 counsel, What would you recommend, or what is your 8 with.
9 recommendation in regards to this. 9 Q Okay.
10 Q Okay. So I wantto -- I still have some 10 A I've stayed on the same track the entire
11 questions about how this works. 11 time.
12 With your review of an employment 12 Q How often does the Board of Regents meet?
13 termination matter, it doesn't sound like you will have or 13 A We are down now -- our meeting rules were
14 the other Regents will have reviewed any materials ahead 14 changed, and we're down now to meeting eight times a year.
15 of time? 15 But actually it works out a lot more than that. We
16 A No. 16 usually have a retreat. We usually have December off, but
17 Q And how many peclple are in the meeting -- 17 every December we've usually ended up with when our
18 how many Regents or other people take part in the review 18 presidents have their inauguration. It varies. I would
19 process in terms of weighing in on them? 19 say we meet probably at least 12 times a year.
20 A We are divided. There are 18 Regents. We 20 Q Okay. But the eight is kind of a mandatory
21 are divided into track one and track two, and so that 21 minimum?
22 means there are nine Regents. You have the possibility of 22 A Well, we had nine, and then when this
23 having nine Regents that will be in on that particular 23 Chancellor took over, I believe it was changed to eight,
24 meeting that day. 24 but it's at the discretion of the Chairman and as the
25 Q Okay. Is there a requirement about how many 25 amount of business necessitates the meetings.

Page 31 Page 33
1 Regents -- 1 Q Okay. And are these meetings -- these
2 A Has to be a quorum. 2 applications for review and employment appeals, are they
3 Q It has to be a quorum. Okay. So that would 3 brought up and handled at a -- at one of these eight
4 be how many? 4 meetings or so?
5 A A quorum, two-thirds? 5 A Yes. Yes.
6 Q I'm asking you. 6 Q All right. So it is not a -- it's not so
7 A That's a good question. Before we start, we 7 the committee on Organization and Law, it's not a -- it's
8 always have to make sure. 8 not a separate forum?
9 Q Okay. Do you know what the requirement is, 9 A For all the Regents to participate in? No.
10 about how many people -- how many Regents have to be 10 'Q Okay. I was thinking maybe there was this
11 present in order for the committee to move on these 11 committee on Organization and Law.
12 matters? 12 Let me ask you this: How many members does
13 A If a quorum in this instance is two-thirds, 13 the committee on Organization and Law have?
14 then that's what it would be. 14 A Half the members of the Board. You have
15 Q Is it your understanding -- 15 track one and track two, and they're divided.
16 A Yes. 16 Q Oh, okay. And is track one equivalent
17 Q -- that it's two-thirds? 17 to-
18 A Uh-huh. 18 A The Organization and Law or -
19 Q So that it's not -- so that you don't have 19 Q I see. Okay. So about half the members of
20 to have every Regent looking at every employment matter? 20 the Board of Regents are on the Organization and Law
21 A No. No. 21 committee?
22 Q And how is the division made among or 22 A Right. But of these two tracks, you have
23 between track one and track two? 23 two different committees.
24 A The Chairman of the Board before each 24 Q Okay.
25 calendar -- before each year -- we go from - we start In 25 A And so -- and one meets and then the other
I
9 (Pages 30 to 33)
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 Page 34 Page 36
1 one meets. So during committee times for the Board 1 Regents meeting every time there is a meeting?
2 meetings, I will have two meetings. I'll have 2 A Yes. Now, are you talking about a Board of
3 Organization and Law, and then I'll have Academic Affairs, 3 Regents meeting In general? A Board of Regents in general
4 and Business and Finance and Real Estate will be meeting 4 has a very specific agenda, but when it comes down to
5 at the same time because I'm not on Business Affairs and 5 committee meetings, then it's whatever is handled in
6 Real Estate. 6 your -- I will get an agenda for a general Board of
7 Q Does each track handle applications for 7 Regents meeting prior to. I will get a big notebook. I
8 review of employment matters? 8 will have everything down there. There will not be one
9 A No. 9 single thing about this particular Organization and Law
10 Q Just one? Just the track that involves the 10 meeting --
11 committee on Law and Organization? 11 Q Okay.
12 A Absolutely. 12 A -- in my minutes -- I mean, in my agenda.
13 Q Typically, how many Regents do you have 13 It will, you know, say you break up into committee
14 hearing an application for appeal in an employment matter? 14 meetings.
15 A I would say most of the time eight or nine. 15 Q I'm confused about something. Are the
16 The Regents take their meetings very seriously. Although, 16 employee -- are the applications for review in employment
17 you can request -- you are to indicate to the secretary 17 termination matters, are those handled in the general
18 when you have an instance where you will not be there, and 18 Board of Regents meetings or only in the specific
19 you are excused, and it varies. Sometimes in our general 19 committee on Law and Organization meetings?
20 meeting, we have all the Regents that are present. 20 A Specifically, Law and Organization meetings.
21 Sometimes two, maybe three, maybe one. 21 Q Okay. So those are not one of the eight or
22 Q Okay. But you can't have any decisions made 22 nine regular meetings of the Board of Regents?
23 unless you have how many? 23 A Yes, absolutely.
24 A Unless you would have at least six members 24 Q They occur if!_ conjunction with that, same
25 on that committee, and usually we have more. 25 day, right?

Page 35 Page 37
1 Like I said, many -- well, I didn't say 1 A Yes. And most of the time our meetings are
2 this, but many meetings will occur when every single one 2 two-day meetings.
3 of those nine regents are there. 3 Q Okay.
4 Q So, again, we are still talking about kind 4 A This particular meeting which was - will be
5 of in general as these -- 5 tomorrow will be a one-day meeting.
6 A Totally in general. 6 Q Okay. All right. So it's a -- the
7 Q -- these things are supposed to happen and 7 employment matters are dealt with in a --
8 as you are accustomed to these meetings going. 8 A In Organization and Law meetings which will
9 Are the matters involving applications for 9 occu; during our committee meetings.
10 review, are they handled at the beginning of -- I mean, 10 MS. HYMAN: For the sake of clarity for the
11 obviously a meeting involves several things or m-any 11 court reporter, let's give the question first, and let the
12 different things, right? 12 attorney finish his questions, and then you can go ahead.
13 A It is all mixed in. 13 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
14 Q So sometimes applications of review are 14 MS. HYMAN: That is okay. It's easy to
15 handled at the very beginning? 15 interrupt one another in a normal conversation. We rely
16 A Yes. 16 on the transcript so ...
17 Q Is there an agenda that's usually followed 17 BY MR. MOORMAN:
18 for these meetings? 18 Q Okay. So when we get to the stage of the
19 A We have a sheet that will be handed out to 19 proceedings where the 'particular application for review is
20 us that will have the cases down. But nothing about the 20 going to be dealt with, and there is probably a list of
21 case -- 21 them, you know -·
22 Q More particular -- 22 A Uh-huh.
23 A -- will be brought up until the person who's 23 Q -- there is a -- so someone briefs everyone
24 handling that case will visit with people about that. 24 else on the specifics of a particular employment matter;
125 Q Is there an overall agenda for a Board of 25 is that correct?

10 (Pages 34 to 37)

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 Page 38 Page 40
1 A Of that particular case, yes. Absolutely. 1 themselves?
2 Q And who is that person? 2 A I think I feel very comfortable In the
3 A Usually the lawyer that handled that case. 3 answers that I give. I think to the -- I mean, to the
4 Q Okay. When you say "handled that case," you 4 answers that I'm giving -- I mean ·- excuse me.
5 mean -- 5 I think I feel comfortable in the questions
6 A Handled that appeal or -- when we get the 6 that I ask and the answers that are given. If I didn't, I
7 thing, case number da, da, da, da. 7 would continue. If we don't feel like we have enough
8 Q The person who assigns the case number and 8 information, we ask for the case to be remanded back to
9 just kind of deals with it initially? 9 get more of what we feel like we need.
10 A Absolutely. 10 Q Does anyone review the employee's
11 Q But you won't have had any feedback from 11 application for review, to your knowledge?
12 that lawyer prior to the time that we are talking about 12 A Anybody on the board?
13 when it comes up? 13 Q Anybody on the board or in Legal Affairs?
14 A Correct. 14 A I would -- absolutely.
15 Q So the lawyer then talks about the 15 Q Who would that be?
16 particular matter, and is there any comment by the lawyer 16 A Whoever has the case. It would either be
17 at that point about what he or she thinks about the 17 Burns Newsome or Kimberly Ballard-Washington.
18 validity of or the merit, as you say, of a particular 18 Q But It sounds to me like you don't know for
19 appeal? 19 sure whether or not -- I mean, you haven't reviewed -- you
20 A No, none whatsoever. They -- 20 don't review yourself and the other Regents don't review
21 Q It is kind of a broad Introduction? 21 the individual particular applications for review that are
22 A Right. These are the facts of the case. We 22 filed by the aggrieving employees. But you're not -- how
23 then in turn ask our questions. 23 could you be sure that anyone else has reviewed them?
24 Q All right. And then is there a review of 24 A I guess I feel very comfortable in the ·- in
25 any documents or evidence by the Board of Regents? 25 what -- in the information that's given to me. When I

Page 39 Page 41
;~1 A Do you mean physical documents? 1 don't feel comfortable, I ask further questions. When we
·-
I::: 2 Q y es, maam.
• 2 feel like we're comfortable with a response as to what we
1, 3 A No. 3 want to do with the case, then we'll give our answer. If
;:::::4 Q Why not? 4 we feel like -- whatever. If we need more information --
5 A Well, I think that time restraints is one of 5 Q Okay.
6 the main problems right there. For instance, tomorrow 6 A -· we'll do that, too.
7 we'll be our one-day board meeting. We will follow an 7 Q So then it usually is the case or frequently
8 agenda. We will break up into our committee meetings, and 8 is the case then that no physical documents are reviewed
9 then immediately after that we'll come and we'll give our 9 by the Board of Regents in connection with employee
10 committee reports. And then there will be probably, I 10 appltcations for review?
11 would say on average, ten, at least ten cases. • 11 A I can't think of a single incident where
12 Now, if we don't feel like we have enough 12 that is the case on anything that I have been involved
13 time to get our -- I mean, I 've been here until six 13 with. I can't answer for any prior time to that.
14 o'clock at night. If we feel like·· we go over the cases 14 Q Okay. Usually documents themselves are not
15 until we feel like we have the time to give what we feel 15 reviewed when the matter comes up?
16 like is an answer that we are comfortable with on 16 A No physical documents.
17 something, but it varies. 17 Q Okay. So It's just discussion?
18 Q Do the Regents review the applications for 18 A Discussion.
19 review that are submitted by the employees? 19 Q All right. And It's led by someone from the
20 A No. 20 Legal Affairs Department, and the Regents will ask, that
21 Q Why not? 21 are there, will ask questions. And how are those
22 A I think just like I said time restraints. 22 questions -- who answers the questions?
23 Q How can the Board of Regents fulfill its 23 A The person who is handling the case.
24 duty to conduct a thorough and complete consideration of 24 Q The lawyer?
25 the applications without reviewing the applications 25 A The lawyer who Is handling the case.
I
11 (Pages 38 to 41)
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 Page 42 Page 44
1 Q Is there - and I suppose it's like any 1 A How long would the longest discussion?
2 debate situation. I mean, there could be discussion among 2 Q (Witness nodding head affirmatively.)
3 the Regents themselves about -- 3 A Maybe -- maybe as long as 25 minutes. But
4 A Absolutely. Absolutely. 4 if we did not feel comfortable, then some other route
5 Q So no evidence is reviewed? 5 would be taken.
6 A "Evidence" meaning? 6 Q Okay. And how does the -- how do the
7 Q Statements, documents, files -- 7 Regents who are present and handling the matter go
8 A No, but I think if - 8 forward? Is there a vote?
9 Q - letters, e-mails. 9 A Yes.
10 A No, but I think if there was something -- 10 Q Okay. And so a quorum would have to be
11 anything that I wanted to ask, I would feel very, very 11 present to even entertain it?
12 comfortable asking. And we do, we ask a lot of questions. 12 A Yes.
13 Q I asked this before, and I just want to make 13 Q And then it could just be a vote from that
14 sure I understand. 14 point?
15 So you, in a typical review matter, you will 15 A Yes.
16 not have been provided with the employee's application for 16 Q All right. So if there's six present, let's
17 review itself and whatever attachment the employee has put 17 say, a 4/2 vote to do one particular thing over another
18 together; is that correct? 18 carries the day, what do you do in the event there's a 3/3
19 A No. No. And I guess if I would feel - 19 tie?
20 nothing is being withheld from me. 20 A I can't ever remember when it was an even --
21 Q I'm just trying to find out what you -- 21 Q Split?
22 A Right. 22 A A lot of times it's unanimous. If it's not
23 Q - what materials you have at your 23 unanimous, then we'll work on something until people feel
24 disposal - 24 very comfortable with a decision.
25 A Right. 25 Q Okay. Is there a record of the vote about

Page 43 Page 45
1 Q -- when something like this is presented. 1 how to handle a particular appeal?
2 A Right. 2 A I don't -- I personally. I mean, I will --
3 Q It sounds like the answer's not much other 3 I would say that our lawyers act as -- one would act as a
4 than what the lawyer can tell you; is that correct? 4 secretary and, yes, there is a vote taken. can I tell you
5 A Right. A review of the information is given 5 whether that is regarded in stone, no, I can't.
6 to us. 6 Q Okay. And so you don't know whether there
7 Q And how much time would you estimate the 7 is any -- to the extent there are votes, and it sounds
8 average -- again, this is -- we are talking about 8 like there are, are the votes recorded anywhere?
9 generalities, but how much time would the average appeal 9 A I can't answer that.
10 and an application for review in an employment situation 10 ' Q Do you take any notes yourself in employee
11 take?
. 11 appeal matters?
12 A That really would not -- that really would 12 A If I want to ask a question or I will do
13 not a fair question at all. 13 something, I will scribb)e, everything is turned in at the
14 Q Okay. It occurred to me that it might not. 14 end of the day because of making sure that confidentiality
15 Some might take a lengthy amount of time, 15 is maintained.
16 and some might take a minute or two and probably 16 Q You turn those into who?
17 everything in between? 17 A We tum them into a pile at the table and
18 A Uh-huh. 18 legal will take them up afterwards.
19 Q can you remember the -- it may be an unfair 19 Q Is it frequent in the cases you take notes?
20 question. 20 A I really don't know that I take notes.
21 can you remember a particularly lengthy 21 During the discussion, if there is a question that I might
22 discussion over maybe an employment appeal matter that 22 add, is it frequent? Not particularly. But I will write
23 took, that you can recall, took longer than they usually 23 down things just to make sure that if I have a question
24 do? And in that case, how long was -- how long did it 24 and somebody else is speaking, that I will be able to
25 take? 25 answer the question that I have.
1
12 (Pages 42 to 45)
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 Page 46 Page 48
1 Q Okay. Are there usually notes turned in by 1 review?
2 someone at the end of a session where you all talked about 2 A I'm not aware, but that doesn't mean that
3 employee matters? 3 things are presented during -- if I -- I want to feel like
4 A I can't answer that because I only look at 4 I am comfortable with what is brought forth, and I work
5 my own, and I just tum in. I'm not -- 5 until I get a certain comfort level with what I feel like
6 Q You are not familiar with whether anyone 6 I'm dealing with.
7 else takes notes? 7 Q Okay. But one of the things that
8 A Not really. 8 Mr. Newsome outlined to my client was an option of the
9 Q So if a lawyer like me was interested in 9 Board of review was to grant a hearing before a committee
10 trying to figure out whether or not notes were taken in 10 of the Board. But as a practical matter you are saying
11 connection with my client's appeal matter, whatever notes 11 that's not an option because it doesn't ever happen?
12 exist would be maintained by the Legal Affairs Department? 12 A No, I'm not saying that at all.
13 A Yes, if there were any. And I will tell 13 Q What are you saying? You're not familiar
14 you, our room was much larger than this, and people 14 with it happening?
15 usually spread out when there are X number of people. I'm 15 A I've not been involved in that.
16 just describing the way things are. I usually would not, 16 Q Okay. In the many, many perhaps over a
17 in general, be sitting as close as I am right now. 17 hundred employment matters --
18 Q Right 18 A In a hearing where the individual that is
19 A And truthfully, I don't really know what 19 involved in the matter has come before the Board, no.
20 anybody else does. I just kind of know what I do. 20 Q Okay. That would be part of the hearing,
21 Q Is there any record made of these 21 right, as far as you understand?
22 proceedings where applications of review come up In the 22 A As far as I understand.
23 Board? Are they recorded? 23 Q So what would be the purpose of a hearing?
24 A There is no -- 24 A Oh, I can only assume it would be to gather
25 Q Audio recording? 25 more facts or information.

Page 47 Page 4c
1 A Not that I know of., 1 Q And does an employee -- so it's your
2 Q No video recording? 2 understanding if there is a hearing, an employee would get
3 A No. 3 to speak, the aggrieved employee would get to speak?
4 Q You've never heard or seen one of a meeting 4 A I would assume so.
5 that you were involved in? 5 Q Do you know whether a record would be made
6 A No. 6 of that proceeding, the hearing?
7 Q To your knowledge, there was no recording. 7 MS. HYMAN: I'm just going have a standing
8 Is there any -- 8 objection to these. These call for speculation. But to
9 A I would want to know if I thought there was 9 the extent that you're saying, you know, you assume, you
10 something in -- no. 10 can go ahead and answer.
11 Q And, to your knowledge, there was nO" 11 MR. MOORMAN: Fair enough.
12 transcribed proceedings? 12 BY MR. MOORMAN:
13 A No. 13 Q Go ahead.
14 Q One of the options that the Board of review 14 A Would you repeat?
15 has is to have a hearing on a particular matter. What 15 Q Is it your impression or understanding that
16 would a hearing entail? 16 an employee would get to speak at a hearing if there was
17 A I really can't answer that question. If I 17 one?
18 was involved with a hearing, I would be notified. I've 18 A I would assume so.
19 never been notified about such. I would say that it would 19 Q Do you know whether or not there would be a
20 take place between the individual and the lawyers on the 20 record made of that proceeding?
21 Board. 21 A I don't know, but I would assume so.
22 Q Okay. Have you ever -- 22 Q All right. And is one reason that there
23 A I've never participated in a hearing before. 23 aren't hearings, as a practical matter, one reason that
24 Q Okay. Well, are you aware of whether or not 24 the Board of Regents doesn't have hearings, would that be
25 there has ever been a hearing of an application for 25 because they --
I
13 (Pages 46 to 49)

PREMIER REPORTING
 Page 50 Page 52
1 MS. HYMAN : Objection. That's 1 A Oh, we've done that before, too.
2 mischaracterizing the testimony. She didn't say that 2 Absolutely.
3 there were no hearings. It's that she had not attended 3 Q To reinstate an employee?
4 any hearings. 4 A Absolutely.
5 MR. MOORMAN: Okay. Your objection is 5 Q Take other actions?
6 noted. 6 A Absolutely.
7 MS. HYMAN: Okay. Go ahead. 7 Q All right. Looking at it from the other end
8 BY MR. MOORMAN: 8 of the spectrum, Is there anything that the Board can't do
9 Q Does the Board of Regents avoid hearings 9 with respect to a particular decision, or is the board
10 because they're concerned about the open records 10 empowered to pretty much do anything that's needed?
11 implications of the hearings that would happen? Is that 11 A I think the Board is empowered to make the
12 something that occurs to you? 12 decisions that they feel like are the correct decisions.
13 A Honestly, no. 13 Q All right. Is there anything,
14 Q Okay. And then ultimately, is there a 14 Ms. Poitevint, that is generated by the Board of review to
15 standard that the committee and the members, the Regents, 15 confirm its decision with respect to any particular appeal
16 who discuss and vote on how to deal with a particular 16 matter?
17 appeal, is there a standard that you use to determine 17 A Would you further --
18 whether to grant the application or deny it? 18 Q Well, like I know that my client got a
19 A I just think everybody asks questions until 19 letter, that we can look at, that says this came before
20 they feel very comfortable in giving and voting on what we 20 the Board and the -- your appeal is denied.
21 want to do in regard to that. I can't imagine anybody 21 Is there anything that's generated, other
22 just saying, Well, it's time. Let's do something. People 22 than that, that explains what the Board's conclusion or
23 ask questions until they feel comfortable with the 23 decision was in a particular matter?
24 information. 24 A No, because at the end of something like
25 Q But what I'm getting at in terms of a 25 that, there will be a motion. And if something is denied,

Page 51 Page 53
..... 1 standard, you know, when they do pro football games, when 1 it's denied. I did not -- I'm sorry. I did not know
2 they do a review from the box, they look at a play on a 2 exactly how the individual was notified. I guess it would
3 video monitor to see if they need to reverse a call on the 3 have to be in some form, but -- I'm sorry. I never took
4 field, and there is a standard they use, something like 4 it --
5 there has to be clear evidence to refute the call made by 5 Q That's okay.
6 the official on the field in realtime or something that. 6 A - any further than the fact that we would
7 Is there any kind of standard that the Board 7 do several things, and if it was denied, you know, I
8 of Regents employs in its review of employee termination 8 denied It, and our group denied It, and that was kind of
9 decisions? 9 the end of my work.
10 A I'm so sorry to be taking so long with this, 10 ' Q Okay. But what I'm wanting to know, is
11 but, no, there is no written anything. - 11 there any document that is generated that contains the
12 Q Okay. 12 Board's decision with respect to a particular appeal and
13 A I think we ask questions until we feel 13 perhaps the reason for its decision?
14 comfortable with how we want to handle the matter. 14 A Not that I am aware of, but I feel sure that
15 Q Okay. Is there a burden on the applicant? 15 there's some notation somewhere, but not any that I'm
16 A To prove whatever they want to do? 16 aware of.
17 Q Well, do you understand that it's their 17 Q Then is there any further appeal that can be
18 burden to be able to get anywhere with their - with the 18 taken from the Board of Regents' denial of an
19 appeal? Is there a burden to any extent of the applicant 19 application's review?
20 or on the applicant? 20 Does the employee have any appeal beyond the
21 A The only thing I can say is I think before a 21 Board of Regents that you know of?
22 case will get to us, it has to have the merit that maybe 22 A Not that I know of.
23 the lawyers might feel. 23 MR. MOORMAN: Let's take a break.
24 Q And Is the Board of Regents empowered to 24 (Recess taken from 3:32 p.m.
I25 reverse an employment decision? 25 until 3:43 p.m.)

14 (Pages 50 to 53)

PREMIER REPORTING
 Page 54 Page 56
1 BY MR. MOORMAN: 1 A Well, I think she was very concerned. Sh~
2 Q Ms. Poitevint, if I understand correctly, at 2 mentioned some things to me, and I was concerned about
3 some point you spoke with Ms. ·Caldon on the phone; Is that 3 that.
4 correct? 4 Q But you called Burns Newsome?
5 A She called. Absolutely. 5 A I called Burns.
6 Q All right. And do you recall when this 6 Q And do you recall what he told you, what
7 conversation occurred? 7 information he gave you?
8 A I really do not remember what conversation 8 A To tell you the truth, I do not. But
9 occurred. 9 whatever it was, it satisfied some concerns I had.
10 Q Okay. Tell me what you recall about the 10 Q Well, did you determine during your phone
11 conversation. 11 call with Bums Newsome that you had simply missed the
12 A I answered the telephone, and I do think 12 portion of the --
13 that she identified herself. Truly, I don't remember much 13 A Yes.
14 about the conversation. But when she started talking 14 Q Is that what was discussed?
15 about the case being brought up at the Board of Regents, I 15 A I just said, Burns, I don't remember this
16 automatically zoomed into thinking about the case and - I 16 case. I came in late. And he said -- I don't remember
17 don't know. For about a minute it was like, Why don't I 17 what he said. It probably was to the effect that, you
18 remember that case? Because even If I don't remember the 18 know, you missed it or whatever. I don't remember exactly
19 names involved, I will usually remember the circumstances. 19 what he said.
20 There was nothing about that that I remembered. 20 My conversation with him evidently satisfied
21 I also remember saying that I -- I didn't 21 some of the concerns that I had, but I know after her call
22 remember it, but I would be glad to check and find out the 22 to me, I wanted to check into it.
23 information that I could. And then I remember that was 23 Q Okay. But as we sit here today, you
24 the day that I was late to the meeting, and I really try 24 don't -- and I think the meeting minutes reflect your
25 to be on time, but, anyway, I wasn't. 25 presence at that meeting on that date, but your testimony

Page 55 Page 57
1 Q How late were you? 1 is you don't recall ever sitting in a Board of Regents
2 A I think I was a good bit down the page. I 2 meeting and hearing any appeal of Ms. caldon's matter?
3 talked to one of the college presidents afterwards, and 3 A No, I don't.
4 then I made it to the other room to realize that the 4 Q And you don't know whether the matter was
5 meeting room had been changed. But they had a quorum. 5 heard or not. You're not in a position to know that?
6 So, you know, they were able to go on with the business. 6 A No, I don't.
7 And I can't tell you -- I was late to the meeting, but I 7 Q What was it, Ms. Poitevint, that Ms. (aldon
8 can't tell you how much of the meeting I missed. 8 told you during your phone conversation with her that was
9 Q Do you know whether Denise caldon's appeal 9 concerning to you?
10 or her application for appeal was heard or dealt with by 10 ' A Maybe it was the -- maybe it was the tone of
11 the Board of Regents on November the 10th of 2008? 11 voice. I can't specifically address that. I will tell
12 A Well, I called the Board to find out some 12 you this, if anybody calls me, and I have concerns about
13 information about the case, and at that time, you know, 13 anything related to Board matters, I will check into it.
14 they did tell me that the case had been heard. I really 14 Q As you did.
15 didn't get a lot of information. 15 Okay. So you did tell Ms. caldon, it sounds
16 Q When did you place that call? 16 like, when she called you on the phone that you had not
17 A Probably right after or the next day, as 17 heard anything or seen anything related to her application
18 soon as I had a convenient opportunity to be able to do 18 for review?
19 that. 19 A Exactly. I had no recollection of that
20 Q After your conversation with Ms. Caldon? 20 case, but I would check into it.
21 A Uh-huh. 21 Q Okay. So where she's reported that you said
22 Q Okay. And who did you call? 22 that to her, she is accurate in that regard?
23 A I asked for Bums, and I talked to him. 23 A That I would check into it?
24 Q So out of concern for what you and Ms. 24 Q That you hadn't seen or heard of her
25 Caldon discussed, you called Burns -- 25 application for review.
I
15 (Pages 54 to 57)
PREMIER REPORTING
 Page 58 Page 60
1 A Exactly. 1 Q And would he have been the same individual
2 Q Have you seen the meeting minutes which show 2 who would have presented the matter to the Board?
3 you in attendance at this meeting? 3 A It's just that whether it's right or wrong,
4 A No. 4 I consider him the senior person, senior legal individual.
5 Q Are you aware of whether they do or not? 5 Q Does he vote on or have say in whether or
6 A I started to say we have -- no, I think It 6 not an appeal should have -- should be -
7 is only our general minutes that reflect our attendance at 7 A No. Excuse me. Huh-uh.
8 the general meeting that I ever see. 8 Q Does he recommend an action to be taken by
9 Q Did you discuss with Ms. caldon during this 9 the Board? Does he weigh in on the Board's decision?
10 phone call that she would -- since you hadn't seen her 10 A Not unless we ask a specific question and
11 application for review, that she would mail you one or a 11 ask his recommendation or something.
12 copy of the one she filed? Do you recall that at all? 12 Q Or legal opinion?
13 A No, I don't. 13 A Absolutely.
14 Q Do you recall whether Ms. caldon sent you a 14 Q Okay. So he's not one of the people that
15 copy of her application for review to your home in 15 would vote when that time comes?
16 Bainbridge? 16 A No, and he would not on his own directly
17 A I can't remember whether anything was sent 17 give any kind of, you know, decision or recommendation on
18 or not. 18 anything. If we ask him, he would be forthcoming with
19 Q Do you know whether -- you can't recall 19 that information.
20 whether you discussed with Ms. caldon sending you a copy 20 Q And I asked you about your conversation with
21 of her application? 21 Bums when you called him. Have you told me everything
22 Does that sound like something you would 22 you can remember about your conversation with Burns
23 have said like, Hey, if I didn't see it, why don't you 23 Newsome?
24 send me a copy of it, and I'll look at it. 24 A I feel sure that there was more discussion
25 A If she had suggested that, then I would not 25 than, Burns, I don't remember this, but as to what and

Page 59 Page 61
1 turn that down. 1 specifics, I do not. I'm sorry.
2 Q Okay. All right. Well, then I will show 2 Q That's okay. •
3 you a copy -- or I will show you what we'll mark as 3 Did you take any other actions In response
4 Plaintiffs Exhibit 3, Ms. Poitevint. 4 to your conversation with Ms. caldon other than following
5 (Whereupon, marked by the court 5 up with Burns Newsome?
6 reporter for identification 6 Did you follow up with anybody else --
7 purposes, Exhibit No. 3.) 7 A No.
8 BY MR. MOORMAN: 8 Q -- write a letter to somebody, send a
9 Q I will ask you if you've ever seen this 9 request for information or anything like that?
10 before, this multipage document relating to Denise caldon. 10 ' A No.
11 A I can't remember whether this was sent to me 11 Q And did you -- whether you were specifically
12 or not. 12 trying to get Information to satisfy any curiosity or
13 Q Okay. And you don't recall whether you've 13 concern you had after your conversation with Ms. caldon,
14 ever seen this through whatever means? 14 did you have any communications whatsoever, whether out of
15 A Through whatever means. 15 concern or whether just coincidentally, any communications
16 Q All right. So it sounds like in response 16 whatsoever with anyone about Ms. caldon's appeal or her
17 to -- and I think Ms. caldon's recollection was that the 17 termination or anything related to Ms. caldon?
18 phone call occurred in mid December 2008. Does that 18 MS. HYMAN: Except for your attorneys.
19 comport with your recollection? 19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 A If I would say when the telephone 20 BY MR. MOORMAN:
21 conversation occurred, I would say at least a year ago. 21 Q Right.
22 Q Okay. And in response to that phone call, 22 A No.
23 we know that one of the things you did was to call Burns 23 Q No? Okay. ,
24 Newsome. 24 Have you sent any e-mails to anyone or
A Yes, I did most definitely. 25 among --
125

16 (Pages 58 to 61)
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 Page 62 Page 64
1 A No. And let me add this, though, I can't 1 Q Okay.
2 remember when, where or if, but we get periodic 2 A There will not be a formal agenda. This
3 Information regarding different cases' status or whatever, 3 will just be the cases. That's the only information that
4 and I can't imagine that a year would go by and not have 4 I'm given.
5 an update. But as to when, where, what, if, I can't add 5 Q There is an agenda that helps lead off these
6 any information in regard to that. But I feel sure that 6 meetings, correct?
7 probably at some time or another that occurred. 7 A I would assume so, yes.
8 Q Okay. 8 Q And is the form of Exhibit No. 4 here that
9 (Whereupon, marked by the court 9 we're looking at, a form for which you are familiar?
10 reporter for identification 10 Is this how the agenda's usually look?
11 purposes, Exhibit Nos. 4 and 11 This apparently is not the entire thing, but
12 5.) 12 in terms of at least the way it's laid out, the first?
13 BY MR. MOORMAN: 13 Page.
14 Q I have Exhibits 4 and 5 to share with you. 14 A Well, let me say this, the only -- I'm not
15 I'm just going to ask you to take a moment and review 15 given any formal document. It could very easily be that
16 those. That is 4, and that's 5. 16 this is a document that the Chair of the committee would
17 My first question is: Have you seen these 17 go by, but I'm only given as a member of the committee,
18 before, and are you familiar with these documents? 18 and I've not had the opportunity - I shared academic ·- I
19 A No, I'm not familiar with these documents. 19 chaired Academic Affairs, and my information was a little
20 Like I said, in the minutes of ~ur meeting, which people 20 more specific. I've never had the opportunity yet to
21 will see, nothing is listed by specific names. We will 21 chair this committee.
22 say X amount of items were taken up, so and so were 22 So even though I am listed as Vice Chair, I
23 denied, so and so remanded, da, da. 23 would assume probably that I would have more communication
24 I mean, they will give you in the final 24 maybe for that particular meeting. And for those cases, I
25 minutes that I will see when I review my minutes in order 25 think the Chair works more carefully and more in specifics

Page 63 Page 65
1 that they will be approved for the next meeting. There 1 than the individual - in preparation than the individuals
2 will not be anything related to names. It will just be 2 do, but I don't know that.
3 the number of items that we dealt with. 3 Q Okay.
4 So this is not something I'm familiar with, 4 MS. HYMAN: Can we take a break before
5 this formal document here. 5 you --
6 MS. HYMAN: For the record, she is pointing 6 MR. MOORMAN: Sure.
7 to Plaintiff's Exhibit 4. 7 (Recess taken from 4:04 p.m.
8 MR. MOORMAN: Okay. 8 until 4:08 p.m.)
9 BY MR. MOORMAN: 9 BY MR. MOORMAN:
10 Q Let's look at that first. 10 'Q Okay. We were discussing Exhibit No. 4, and
11 You have not seen Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 • 11 let me just tie the bow on it.
12 before? 12 Is this the fonm that you're generally used
13 A Not this specific •• 13 to seeing with agendas for committee on Organization and
14 Q Document? 14 Law matters that you deal with? I know you said you
15 A -- document, no. 15 hadn't seen -- don't recall having seen this exact one,
16 Q Does this look, though, like a form that you 16 but is this the form that you're accustomed to seeing?
17 are familiar with that would layout an agenda for items to 17 A No.
18 be reviewed by your committee? 18 Q No?
19 A The document that I get is a sheet that will 19 A No.
20 have the case number and the individuals or individual 20 Q Okay. And then If you will turn to Exhibit
21 involved, and that will be it. 21 No. 5, the next one, are you familiar with the meeting
22 Q In terms of an agenda? 22 minutes that are generated in connection with the
23 A In terms of an agenda. 23 committee on Organization and Law activities?
24 Q It's on an agenda, right? 24 A This looks··
25 A Uh-huh. 25 Q More familiar?
I
17 (Pages 62 to 65)
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 Page 66 Page 68
1 A Possibly like what I would be familiar with 1 that particular room. But like I said, we move around all
2 so far as minutes from the Board of Regents. 2 the time. The other track stays in the larger board
3 Q All right. And this would be generated 3 meeting, and we're the ones who have to move all the time.
4 after the fact? 4 Q Okay. Who is it that generates the meeting
5 A This? 5 minutes, do you know?
6 Q Number 5. No, I'm sorry, No. five. Keep 6 A Secretary of the board.
7 this with on top. 7 Q Who would that be?
8 A I would see It again if indeed -- if Indeed 8 A Bums.
9 this is from our minutes, then that would be the next time 9 Q Bums Newsome generates these meeting
10 I would see it. 10 minutes?
11 Q Okay. And as far as you're concerned, this 11 A Well, he's the secretary of the Board.
12 looks like minutes that followed the •• that were made in 12 There's several people that do assist him in that. I
13 the due course and ordinary course of things at the Board 13 can't - I don't know whether this is something he does
14 of Regents In follow-up to the Monday, November 10 meeting 14 specifically or not.
15 in room 7019? 15 Q Or delegates?
16 A I would assume so. 16 A Absolutely.
17 Q And minutes like this are customarily 17 Q But your-·
18 generated after a board of review meeting; is that 18 A His title is secretary to the Board.
19 correct? 19 Q Your logical assumption is that based on
20 A They would definitely -- they would 20 that title and your experlence, that either Mr. Newsome or
21 definitely do minutes afterwards. 21 someone at his direction prepares the meeting minutes such
22 Q And do you -- how do you get a copy of the 22 as those we are looking at?
23 minutes? Are they e-mailed to everybody who was in 23 A I would assume so.
24 attendance? 24 Q All right. In these meeting minutes reflect
25 A No. I get a copy before the next meeting 25 your attendance at the committee on Organization and Law

Page 67 Page 69
1 and I -- 1 portion of the Board of Regents meeting on November 10,
2 Q Oh·· 2 2008, do they not?
3 A I don't- 3 A Yes, they do.
4 Q Does that happen by e-mail, or would that be 4 Q Okay. And I'm just going to read from the
5 in that notebook that you would receive? 5 section dealing with applications for review at the
6 A That's in my notebook. 6 bottom. It indicates, At approximately 10:05 a.m. on
7 Q So that would include meeting minutes from 7 Monday, November 10, 2008 Chair Kenneth R. Bernard, Jr.
8 the last meeting? 8 called for an executive session for the purpose of
9 A Right. 9 discussing personnel matters and academic records of
10 Q Okay. 10 students. With motion properly made and seconded, the
11 A No. I would have an agenda, but it wollld 11 committee members who were present voted unanimously to go
12 not -- I would have the meeting·· the minutes from the 12 into executive session. Those Regents were McMillan,
13 last meeting, and I would have an agenda for the entire -- 13 Poitevint, Carter, Stelling, Jennings, and Yancey Rodwell.
14 the entire Board of Regents meeting that we would have. 14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q Okay. This looks like this is the meeting 15 Q Did I read all of that correctly?
16 minutes that were generated - Exhibit 5 looks like 16 A Yes, you did.
17 meeting minutes that are generated in connection with the 17 Q Okay. So the official meeting minutes, Ms.
18 employee appeal matters that come up in the Board of 18 Poitevint, reflect your presence, input and voting with
19 Regents meeting; is that correct? 19 respect to matters A through H on this form, correct?
20 A I would assume so, yes. 20 A Correct.
21 Q Where it says, The committee on the 21 Q Okay. One of which was the matter of Ms.
22 Organization and Law met on Monday, November 10 at 22 Denise E Caldon's application for review concerning her
23 approximately 10:0 a.m. in room 7019, do you know what -- 23 termination?
24 where room 7 -- what building room 7019 is in? 24 A Correct.
A I think that room next to us is that -- is 25 Q Okay. But your testimony is you don't
125
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 Page 70 Page 72
1 recall her matter coming up at all in the November 10, 1 A Absolutely, because she -- I don't remember
2 2008 meeting? 2 what her remarks were to me, but she did start talking
3 A No, I don't. But then again, I was very 3 about the particular case. And as I've said before, a lot
4 late coming into the meeting or late. I don't -- I was 4 of times I don't remember people's names, but I remember
5 late coming into the meeting. 5 the circumstances of the case.
6 Q Well, after discussions occurred about 6 Q Stands to reason.
7 whether you were late or not, was there any effort to 7 A And it was not anything that was familiar to
8 amend these meeting minutes to reflect your nonattendance 8 me. And while she was continuing with her conversation, I
9 for some portion thereof? 9 was really trying to rack my brain on why don't I remember
10 A Let me say this, it is not - 10 this, and then I remember that was the meeting. And
11 Q Let me ask you a question. 11 apparently, it was not that long maybe before her
12 Can you answer that question? I want you to 12 telephone call. I'm usually not late to the meetings, and
13 give me whatever explanation you want to, but can you 13 I was late to the meeting.
14 answer the question yes or no pefore you explain? 14 Q Okay. Do you know that it was this meeting
15 A Okay. 15 you were late to?
16 Q Has there ever been any amendment to or 16 As we sit here today, you clearly recall
17 alteration to these official meeting minutes? 17 being late to a Board of Regents meeting. Are you in a
18 A Not that I know of. 18 position to tell us which one it was?
19 Q Okay. Now, tell me what you want to tell 19 A (No response.)
20 me. 20 Q You have to say yes or no.
21 A It is not unusual at all. Once people get 21 A I'm just sorry. I think this was the
22 in, they usually don't leave; but it's not unusual for 22 meeting. I'm not late to meetings, and there was a
23 people to come in later to the meetings or are called out 23 meeting that I was unusually late to. I'm not late to the
24 to do a phone call or something, and I'm not aware that 24 meetings.
25 anything like that would be reflected in the minutes. 25 Q Okay. Do you know whether it was the

Page 71 Page 73
1 Q Do you know how late you were to the -- to 1 November 10, 2008 meeting or perhaps another meeting?
2 that meeting? 2 A I don't think it was another meeting. I do
3 A I was pretty late because I had to find the 3 think it was this meeting. But, no, I'm not 100 percent
4 meeting place. 4 sure on that.
5 Q Did it - when did it occur to you -- did it 5 Q Okay. Why do you think it was that meeting?
6 occur to you during your conversation with Denise Caldon 6 A Maybe because during the conversation, she
7 that that was the meeting that you were -- that was a 7 might have said, During the last meeting this came up.
8 meeting you were late to? 8 Did -- you know, do you remember whether this case came
9 A No, but- 9 up?
10 Q When did it occur to you that you might have 10 'Q So the fact that you hadn't heard it made
11 been - might have missed the Caldon matter? 11 you think that it must have been that meeting?
12 A I did not remember at all when my 12 A Or maybe she said at the last Board of
13 conversation occurred. I'm looking down now, and someone 13 meetings -- last Board of Regents meeting.
14 had said during this meeting that the call occurred in 14 Q Okay.
15 December, which I was not aware of, and I'm looking down 15 A There was a specific reason why I thought
16 now, and I see the meeting goes on -- the meeting occurred 16 that was the meeting that I was late. But right now I
17 in November. 17 can't tell you why.
18 Now, tell me again what your question was. 18 Q Okay. And do you know how late you were,
19 Q When did you first have the impression or 19 10, 15 minutes, half an hour?
20 idea that perhaps the occasion when Ms. Caldon's matter 20 A It was not just a few minutes. I was late
21 came up was a meeting that you were late for? 21 to the meeting, but I can't tell you how late, and I can't
22 Well, when she started talking to me on the 22 even tell you right now how late this meeting lasted. I
23 telephone - 23 have no idea.
24 Q So it was during that conversation that you 24 Q And do you know -- and I'm certainly not
had this impression? 25 taking issue with your scheduling things and what not, but
25
I
19 (Pages 70 to 73)
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 Page 74 Page 76
1 do you know why you were late? 1 kind of a bad address for you, Twin Lakes --
2 A Yes, I do. 2 A No.
3 Q Why is that? 3 Q You're offering reasons why you might not
4 A Because not only did I talk to -- not only 4 have gotten this letter. Is that what --
5 did I have a conversation afterwards, which I usually 5 A No. I'm just saying that my Board of
6 don't try to do, but I went to the wrong room. 6 Regents materials are sent to 1100 Dothan Road,
7 Q Okay. So your impression that you may not 7 Bainbridge, Georgia.
8 have heard of Denise Caldon's appeal because this was a 8 Q Well, I'm not trying to be difficult. Do
9 meeting you were late for occurred to you during your 9 you check your mail at Twin Lakes Drive?
10 conversation with Ms. Caldon? 10 A Yes.
11 A Absolutely, and it could have very easily 11 Q And in March of 2009 were you checking your
12 been because she had specified maybe at the last meeting 12 mail at 2000 --
13 or something. There was something that made me initially 13 A Yes. I feel sure I was, if I was there.
14 think that was definitely the meeting. 14 Q Okay. What sort of period of time would you
15 Q Okay. Did you tell Ms. Caldon during that 15 not have been there?
16 conversation that you had been late for a meeting and 16 Did you take weeks -- were you gone from
17 maybe that's why you hadn't heard of it? 17 that address for weeks.at a time?
18 A Yes. 18 A I can't tell you. I was gone all last week,
19 Q Okay. Do you recall having seen any e-mails 19 and the end of this year -- I mean, the end of this month,
20 from anybody about Ms. Caldon's appeal? 20 I will be gone for the last two weeks. It varies. I am
21 A No. 21 gone a good bit.
22 Q And then I have another exhibit to show you. 22 Q Whatever the case is, Ms. Poitevint, your
23 (Whereupon, marked by the court 23 testimony in this matter is that you don't recall
24 reporter for identification 24 receiving this letter --
25 purposes, Exhibit No. 6.) 25 A I don't recall.

Page 75 Page 77
1 BY MR. MOORMAN: 1 Q -- Exhibit No. 6?
2 Q This is a March 11, 2009 document we will 2 A I don't recall.
3 label as Exhibit No. 6. 3 Q Is it possible you did and you just don't
4 Can you identify this as a letter that you 4 recall?
5 received from Ms. Caldon? 5 A Absolutely.
6 A No. I'm sorry. I don't. 6 Q Okay. So you don't recall what, if
7 Q ls that your address at the top, 2001 Twin 7 anything, you did in response to receiving this letter, if
8 Lakes Drive? 8 you did receive it, or who you might have forwarded it to
9 A Yes. 9 or what actions might have been taken?
10 Q Okay. Was that where you were living In 10 'A I feel sure since the person that I'm
11 March of 2009? 11 working with is Burns, I don't -- I don't remember calling
12 A Yes. 12 him about this, but I feel sure if I had gotten it, maybe
13 Q Did you have any problems that you know of 13 a Board of Regents meeting was coming up and I talked to
14 receiving mail at that address? 14 him about it. I don't remember getting this document?
15 That's where you would regularly get your 15 Q Okay. And you don't remember getting that
16 mail? 16 large packet, the application for review which was Exhibit
17 A All my Board packets, all my Board 17 3 either?
18 information goes to 1100 Dothan Road. I'm not home a lot 18 A I don't remember getting it.
19 of the time. I have -- I have another home, and just so 19 Q Would it -- how often will you receive
20 long I know -- just so long as I know that these -- that 20 something in the mail from an aggrieved employee in
21 my Board materials will be at a place and not in my 21 connection with that university system employee's appeal?
22 mailbox rotting away or something, all my Board materials 22 I mean, something directly to you in the mail? Has it
23 are sent to 1100 Dothan Road, which is my husband's 23 everhappened?
24 office, and they put them aside for me. 24 A Yes, it does.
125 Q So your testimony is that this is really 25 Q How often does it happen?

20 (Pages 74 to 77)

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 Page 78 Page 80
1 A And it -- when you mean -- when you say 1 A No, I did not.
2 employee, do you mean any individual who has a problem 2 Q Why not?
3 that they would like to express their concern about? 3 A Because Bums said, We are -- we're taking
4 Q Well, if we need to define It that broadly, 4 care of the case.
5 then sure. 5 Q So your intention when you spoke to Ms.
6 How often are you getting mail sent directly 6 caldon on the phone -- hold on. I'm not finished.
7 to you from employees who are upset about any issue? 7 A Excuse me.
8 A Probably several times a month. 8 Q You told Ms. (aldon essentially that you
9 Q Okay. And what do you do with those? 9 would look into it.
10 A I have a file that I put it in. 10 A Yes, I did.
11 Q Okay. And you don't have any file relating 11 Q Did you indicate to her that you would
12 to Denise Caldon or her matter? 12 likely be following up with her, or how would she know --
13 A No, I don't have a specific file. I have a 13 how would she know what Information you had learned if you
14 file that -- all the information that was sent to me in 14 weren't going to call her back?
15 regard to matters like that, I put them in a specific 15 A I just knew that as long as I found out that
16 file. 16 the case had come up, then I was satisfied that it had
17 Q All right. Are you familiar with any 17 taken Its course.
18 efforts by John Cole, David Bell or Levy Youmans from 18 Q Okay.
19 Macon State College to have Ms. Caldon's appeal matter 19 A And Burns said it was a continuing matter.
20 tabled or specifically not addressed at the November 10 20 Q Continuing matter.
21 2008 date? 21 A And those are not his specific words. I
22 A Not at all. 22 just -- I mean, it was --
23 Q Okay. And this is in follow-up to a 23 Q That's the gist of it.
24 question a little while ago. 24 A Right.
25 Have you ever addressed with anyone, 25 Q I got you.

Page 79 Page 81
1 Ms. Poitevint, whether or not Ms. caldon's -- strike that. 1 But it was Mr. Newsome who satisfied you, as
2 Have you ever spoken to any other Regent who 2 you say, with respect to how this was being handled?
3 can attest that Ms. Caldon's matter was heard and was 3 A Yes.
4 properly handled through the i;iroper Board of Regents 4 Q All right. But, I guess, my point is that
5 policies and procedures on November 10th? 5 you were speaking to Ms. Caldon on the phone about a
6 A No. I'm sorry. I haven't. 6 concern or some concerns that she had that caused you to
7 Q And so it's clear then that It has just been 7 do something to place a call to Burns Newsome.
8 your assumption all the while that Ms. caldon's matter 8 A Right.
9 came up, but the reason that you didn't hear it is because 9 Q Okay. And I assume that it was going to be
10 you were late to the meeting that day? 10 naturally your intention when you were speaking to Ms.
11 A Correct. - 11 Caldon on the phone that whatever you learned you would
12 Q Okay. Do you know what -- to the extent 12 follow up with her about, but that instead Mr. Burns or
13 that Ms. caldon's matter did come up and was duly handled 13 Mr. Newsome told you not to call Ms. caldon back; it's an
14 by the Board of Regents, do you know what documents, 14 ongoing matter?
15 materials and information were reviewed by the Board? 15 A Oh, no, he didn't say not to do that. I
16 A No, I don't. 16 feel like I need -- I feel like my response needs to be
17 Q You have not spoken to anyone about that? 17 what -- I feel like each individual matter, I determine
18 A Well, as I said before, I did call Burns. 18 what my action needs to be. And if it was an ongoing case
19 Q Right. 19 with the Board, there was really not anything that I could
20 A I was concerned about this, and I think that 20 add to that particular situation.
21 I was informed by Ms. Caldon that -- or was asked whether 21 Q Okay. So you're -- that may have been
22 the -- whether the case was brought up, and I just said, 22 presumptuous on my part.
23 I'm sorry. I don't remember the case, but I will call, 23 Your conversation with Ms. (aldon, as you
24 and I will check on it, and I will let you know. 24 recall, didn't necessarily mean having you telling her,
25 Q Did you ever call Ms. caldon back? 25 Well, I'll find out what I can and call you back.
I
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 Page 82 Page 84
1 A No. I was just -- I was just concerned 1 Q You don't know what materials supported the
2 about the case, and Burns satisfied my concerns. 2 Board of Regents' decision or not; is that correct?
3 Q Okay. And so -- and I promise this will be 3 A That's correct.
4 the last question on this line. 4 Q Okay. If you can turn -- and we're almost
5 So then the reason you didn't call Ms. 5 finished here - to the very -- the next exhibit. I think
6 caldon back to tell her that you were satisfied was what? 6 It's Exhibit 3 which is the Application for Review and
7 A The fact that I didn't feel like there was 7 paperwork.
8 anything at all that I could add. 8 Down at the bottom -- towards the bottom
9 Q Okay. 9 there is referenced by Ms. --
10 A I don't even know that I said I would call 10 A Just one second. Okay.
11 her back. 11 Q The really thick one, and right down here
12 Q You've told me everything that you can 12 you can see where my highlights are.
13 recall about your conversation with Mr. Newsome? 13 Ms. caldon makes the statement about
14 A Absolutely. It was not an extended 14 Mr. Bell's mental decline. I'm wondering if reading that
15 conversation. 15 now perhaps refreshes your recollection that you've seen
16 Q Do you know David Bell at Macon State 16 this document at some point in time.
17 College? 17 A No, I haven't.
18 A I've met David Bell. 18 But let me tell you this, I went to Wesleyan
19 Q Did you know about any problems at -- any 19 College, and David Bell's first wife I really -- I don't
20 problems that exist at Macon State College with David 20 really know David Bell.· I've met him, but I followed very
21 Bell, any problems that he's causing there? 21 carefully Nora Kaiser Bell because she was the president
22 A No. 22 of the Wesleyan and did a lot of wonderful things for
23 Q Okay. You're not aware of any investigation 23 Wesleyan. And I know that when she went to another
24 or assessment Into whether or not -- Into Mr. Bell's 24 college, that's when she developed cancer or whatever.
25 conduct or misconduct or anything like that? 25 The only thing I'm familiar with, because I

Page 83 Page 85
1 A No. 1 followed it because of being involved with Wesleyan
2 Q And are you sure -- weren't you the chair of 2 college, Nora Kaiser Bell.
3 that committee back in November 2008? 3 Q Okay. But seeing this here doesn't -
4 A (Witness shaking head negatively.) 4 A No.
5 Q Tell me again when you began being the 5 Q -- refresh your recollection that you've
6 chair. 6 seen this before?
7 A Well, I looked down at this. I thought I 7 A No, not at all.
8 just became the vice chair -- 8 Q Okay. Is it concerning for the Board of
9 Q Right. 9 Regents where you have an administrative assistant to the
10 A -- of this committee with this last term 10 presi~ent who's been at the school for some 15 years
11 and -- 11 reporting that her supervisor, the president of the
12 Q Could you have been the vice chair back in 12 college, is experiencing a mental decline?
13 November of '08? 13 A Would that be of concern to me?
14 A That's what it says on this, but I don't 14 Q Yes, ma'am. •
15 think so. 15 A I would take everything into consideration,
16 Q That's why I was asking. 16 yes, I would.
17 A I don't think so. 17 Q But really the question was, as a Regent,
18 Q Okay. 18 not you as a human being, as a Regent I assume that would
19 A The only committee that I've chaired is 19 be something that would be concerning?
20 Academic Affairs. 20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. So you're not in the position to know 21 Q Do you know whether that matter was
22 whether or not the denial of Ms. caldon's application for 22 discussed -- I take it you don't --
23 review was the appropriate action for the Board of Regents 23 A No, I don't.
24 to take? 24 Q -- by the Board of Regents?
j 25 A No. I'm sorry. I'm not. 25 And on the second page, Ms. Poitevint, it

22 (Pages 82 to 85)

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 Page 86 Page 88
1 indicates Dr. Bell's own daughters and son have called me 1 as this be of concern to you as a Regent?
2 both at home and at the office for two years regarding 2 A I guess all of the information you take into
3 their strong concern for their father's increasing 3 consideration in reading something, but this is just --
4 psychological health decline. 4 this is really not something that I'm that familiar with.
5 And the question is the same. Is it -- is 5 I'm sorry.
6 that a matter of concern to you as a Regent? 6 Q That's why it's almost a hypothetical. I
7 A I think it would be a matter of concern. I 7 understand you haven't read this. I understand that is
8 definitely do. 8 your testimony, but are these matters worth looking into?
9 Q And then If you will tum to page 4 of the 9 A As a Regent, I would say that. And, yes, I
10 document, Bates number Caldon 0008, and under 10 would take note of that.
11 administrative issues, number 2, and then in the second 11 Q Okay. And if you will tum to page 7, and
12 paragraph underneath -- 12 I'm looking right here, this little paragraph above the
13 A Okay. We're on what page? 13 chart, Ms. Caldon reports, I was responsible for
14 Q You're there. 14 completing Dr. Bell's leave reports. I began documenting
15 A Okay. 15 Dr. Bell's hours in the office. Per Dr. Bell's
16 Q I'm looking right here. 16 instructions, his increasing medical and personal time is
17 Ms. Caldon reports that while working for 17 rarely noted on his leave reports.
18 Mr. Bell -- Dr. Bell, I was put in a position of covering 18 Is that something that is of concern to you
19 up countless and inappropriate auditor sensitive 19 as a Regent?
20 discrepancies. 20 MS. HYMAN: Do you mean hypothetically as
21 And, again, this is coming from an employee 21 she is sitting here reading it now?
22 who's been there a long time. Is that something that's 22 MR. MOORMAN: I mean, we can talk about it
23 concerning to you as a Regent? 23 in the hypothetical, but, I mean, good grief. This was --
24 A Yes, it's of a concern to me. But I will 24 this was my client's grievance. This was her appeal, and
25 just tell you this, any time I think about Dr. Bell, all I 25 I haven't heard at all and haven't seen any evidence in

Page 87 Page 89
1 can -- because I really didn't know him that well, my 1 the case that these sorts of concerns were discussed at
2 thoughts honestly go back to when I thought about his 2 all.
3 wife, who I knew, and just kind of a sad situation there. 3 BY MR. MOORMAN:
4 I followed her deal, I mean, more than I did anything 4 Q You're saying you weren't there or didn't
5 else. I'm sorry. 5 hear them. My concern is sitting here today, knowing that
6 Q You're sympathetic to Dr. Bell? 6 Denise Caldon made this report, is that something that is
7 A Well, I just knew -- I knew the situation 7 important to you as a Regent, that is of concern to you as
8 because of the wife. 8 a Regent?
9 Q And if you -- 9 A It is something in reading a report you
10 A None of this other. I'm just saying I knew 10 woultl look at. I'm not even aware that a president has
11 the wife, and I'm not even sure of the time span Involved. 11 his time logged in when he arrives and when he leaves.
12 I don't remember -- I don't remember anything about dates 12 Q That was my next question.
13 in regard to this. 13 A A president is -- his schedule is at his own
14 I'm just saying when you say Dr. Bell, what 14 discretion.
15 I think about is Nora Kaiser Bell and her illness and her 15 Q Are you familiar with whether, under the
16 involvement with Wesleyan, which I'm involved with. 16 controlling laws and guidelines, Dr. Bell is required to
17 Q If you will turn to page 5, Ms. Poitevint, 17 accurately record his leave time and sick time?
18 Ms. Caldon reports a conflict of interest or a potential 18 A No. I'm sorry. I was not aware of that.
19 conflict of interest involving Dr. Bell's relationship 19 Q Okay. Do you know whether Dr. Bell's leave
20 with a man named Jimmy Patten who was simultaneously a 20 reports are accurate?
21 personal financial advisor for Dr. Bell or in the firm who 21 A Oh, heavens, I have absolutely no idea.
22 handled his wealth management and also on the Macon State 22 Q Has the Board of Regents ever looked into or
23 College Foundation Board of Trustees which would be in the 23 any committee organized by the Board of Regents ever
24 position of determining Dr. Bell's compensation. 24 looked into any of these matters relating to Dr. Bell?
25 As a general matter, would a conflict such 25 A No, not that I am aware of at all.
I
23 (Pages 86 to 89)

PREMIER REPORTING
 Page 90 Page 92
1 Q Okay. But to the extent that Dr. Bell as a 1 (Whereupon, marked by the court.
2 sitting college president is required to accurately record 2 reporter for identification
3 his leave tlme and sick time, is it of concern to the 3 purposes, Exhibit No. 7.)
4 Board of Regents if he, in fact, is not doing that? 4 BY MR. MOORMAN:
5 MS. HYMAN: Is that a hypothetical? Because 5 Q Let me show you -- and I think this may be
6 you're stating a statement of law, and I don't want her to 6 our last exhibit, Exhibit No. 7, Ms. Poitevint.
7 be making a legal conclusion here. 7 This Is a Macon State College leave form for
8 So- 8 David A. Bell. Are you familiar with these forms?
9 MR. MOORMAN: Objection noted. 9 A No, I'm not.
10 MS. HYMAN: -- to the extent that you can 10 Q Okay. Then you've probably not seen this
11 answer, please answer. 11 particular one before, this exhibit?
12 THE WITNESS: Do you mind repeating that 12 A No.
13 again. 13 Q Well, if Ms. caldon was responsible for
14 MR. MOORMAN: I don't know that I can repeat 14 completing Dr. Bell's leave reports, that is, putting the
15 it exactly. can you read it back for us? 15 time that he was away on leave for various things in this
16 (Whereupon, the following question 16 monthly form and had grown discontented with having to
17 was read as follows: "Question: But 17 make false representations in this form on his behalf and
18 to the extent that Dr. Bell as a 18 at his direction and wrote this note on here that you see
19 sitting college president is 19 dated September 15, 2008 indicating that she didn't want
20 required to accurately record his 20 to take part in this anymore, and that nine days later
21 leave time and sick time, is it of 21 after writing this note she was terminated, would that be
22 concern to the Board of Regents if 22 something that would be important to the Board of Regents
23 he, in fact, is not doing that?") 23 in reviewing Ms. caldon's Application for Review of her
24 THE WITNESS: It would be of concern, I 24 termination?
25 would assume. But I will tell you this, we have different 25 A I think that's -- I think that's a factor,

Page 91 Page 93
1 people -- our person who's in charge of Academic 1 but I still go back to there is an individual who oversees
2 Affairs -- we have different people that have different 2 different individuals, oversees different colleges. And,
3 presidents assigned to them. The chancellor takes 3 in general, I cannot think of any incident where I would
4 research university presidents. And specifics -- no 4 have the opportunity to see or have any dealings with this
5 college president's specifics are in our domain. 5 specific information.
6 BY MR. MOORMAN: 6 Q Okay. I've just -· I'm not sure which
7 Q What do you mean? 7 question you were answering there, but I think I got the
8 A That's not something that I deal with. 8 answer to my question at the beginning of that.
9 Q leave time or leave reporting taken by 9 A If there was anything related to the
10 college presidents or made by college presidents would be 10 performance of David Bell, that if it was Rob Watts who
11 something that the Board of Review would look at? 11 was supposed to see about it when we do review of college
12 A If that was something that was a major deal, 12 presidents, that would be the time that I would hear about
13 then the individual at the Board who was assigned to David 13 something, and I never heard anything that was negative
14 Bell, maybe that would be something -- it's just not •• I 14 related to David Bell.
15 feel like that's not in my domain. 15 Q And I appreciate your telling me that. I
16 Q Why wouldn't leave reporting be an accuracy 16 didn't really ask a question that called for that
17 of the record? 17 information.
18 A I feel like if something like that was 18 A I'm sorry.
19 detrimental to his performance, then I would hear about it 19 MR. MOORMAN: Let me •• I think I'm
20 and need to act about it. But if it was not detrimental 20 finished. Let's take a short break, and let me just run
21 to his performance, there is no reason that I would ever 21 through my notes real quickly and ...
22 hear about it. 22 (Recess taken from 4:53 p.m.
23 Q Okay. 23 until 4:58 p.m.)
24 24 MR. MOORMAN: Just one follow-up question.
125 25

24 (Pages 90 to 93)
PREMIER REPORTING
 Page 94 Page 96
1 BY MR. MOORMAN: 1 CERTIFICATE
2 Q I don't know how often, Ms. Poitevint, you 2 ---- -- - ---
3 might be late to a Board of Regents meeting or how often 3 STATE OF GEORGIA:
4 another Regent might be late, but on those occasions when 4 FULTON COUNTY:
5 someone comes in late, are they apprised of - is the late 5 I hereby certify that the foregoing transcript was
6 Regent -- is the late-arriving Regent apprised of those 6 taken down as stated in the caption, and the questions and
7 decisions that have occurred up until that point in a 7 answers thereto were reduced to typewriting under my
8 meeting? 8 direction; that the foregoing pages 1 through 95 represent
9 A Not that I know of. I think if the Regent 9 a true and correct transcript of the evidence given upon
10 comes in and wants to know, then they are, you know, 10 said hearing, and I further certify that I am not a
11 definitely made aware. 11 relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the
12 When I came in, due to the fact that other 12 parties, nor am I a relative or employee of such attorney
13 things were going on, I did not interrupt the meeting to 13 or counsel, nor am I financially interested in the action.
14 ask specifically what I did miss. 14 This the 7th day of March, 2010.
15 Q And do you recall at what point -- or do you 15
16 recall what was going on in whatever meeting you were late 16
17 arriving to where there was a change in the room location, 17 LORI D. ROY, RPR, CCR B-2278
18 do you recall what was going on when you did get there, 18
19 whether it was an appeal matter or what not? 19
20 A Absolutely not. 20
21 Q Is there anything you could -- is there any 21
22 source or calendar or diary or file or information that 22
23 you could consult which would help you answer the question 23
24 of whether it was the November 10, 2008 meeting that you 24
25 were late for? Anywhere you could do go to help us with 25

Page 95
1 that?
2 A No. No.
3 Q All right.
4 A Notatall.
S Q All right.
6 MR. MOORMAN: Well, those are all the
7 questions I can think to ask. I very much appreciate your
8 time.
9 MS. HYMAN: I have no questions.
10 (Deposition concluded)
11
12 ---------- .
DOREEN POITEVINT
13
14 Sworn to and subscribed before me,
this the _ _ day of 2010.
15
16
17 Notary Public
My commi~sion expires:
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I
25 (Pages 94 to 96)

PREMIER REPORTING