His Royal Highness Prince Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, Crown

Prince and Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defense, affirmed that Islam is the
religion of peace,

He added in an interview with the Atlantic "American (Iran, the Muslim Brotherhood,
terrorist groups) represent the triangle of evil, and the following is the text of the
dialogue:

Jeffrey Goldberg: It's good to hear about some of the things you promise to do in
Saudi Arabia, but it's still in its infancy. Your country is a large and complex country
and it is very difficult to change the culture in it. Can you start by talking about Islam
and the role that Islam can play in the world?

Mohammed bin Salman: Islam is the religion of peace. This is the correct translation
of Islam. Our Lord, in Islam, placed two responsibilities on us: first faith, doing all
that is good and avoiding sins. If we disobey, God will hold us accountable. And our
second duty. Our second duty as Muslims is to spread the word of God - His bounty.
For 1,400 years, Muslims were seeking to spread the Word of God in the Middle East,
North Africa and Europe. They were not allowed to spread the word of God so they
fought to spread the message, and that is our duty. But you also see that in many
countries in Asia, such as Indonesia, Malaysia, and India, Muslims had the freedom to
spread the word of God. They have been told "please" you can say what you want and
people have the right to believe what they want. In this context, the dissemination of
Islam was not the use of the sword but the peaceful dissemination of the word of God.

And now in the triangle of evil -

Jeffrey Goldberg: The Evil Triangle?

 Mohammed bin Salman: Yes, I will explain it in a moment. In this triangle (Iran, the
Muslim Brotherhood, terrorist groups), they seek to promote the idea that our duty as
Muslims is to reestablish their own concept of succession and claim that the duty of
Muslims is to build an empire by force according to their understanding and
ambitions. He orders us to do so. God ordered us to spread His word. This task must
be done. Today, in non-Muslim countries, every human being has the right to choose
his or her belief and belief. Religious books can be bought in every country. The
message is delivered. Now it is no longer a duty for us to fight for the propagation of
Islam - as long as Muslims are allowed to call well. But in the triangle of evil, they
want to manipulate the Muslims and tell them that their duty as Muslims - and for
their dignity - requires the establishment of an Islamic empire (with violence and
power according to the distorted ideology of all sides of the evil triangle).

Jeffrey Goldberg: Regarding the Triangle -

Mohammed bin Salman: First we have the Iranian regime, which wants to spread its
extremist ideology, radical Shiite ideology (the mandate of the Faqih). They believe
that if they spread this thought, the hidden Imam would emerge and return to rule the
world from Iran and spread Islam to the United States. They say this every day since
the Iranian revolution in 1979. This is recognized in their laws and proven by their
actions.

The second part of the triangle is the Muslim Brotherhood, another extremist
organization. They want to use the democratic system for the rule of nations and to
spread the caliphate under the shadow of their extremist leadership throughout the
globe. They will then turn into a real, extremist empire ruled by their mentor. The
other part of the triangle is the terrorists - al-Qaeda and the organization of the Islamic
state - who want to do everything by force, forcing Muslims and the world to be under
their rule and their extremist ideology by force. It should be noted that the leaders of
al-Qaeda and the leaders of the Islamic State Organization were all originally
members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Such as Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahri
and the leader of the Islamic state.

This triangle promotes the idea that God and the Islamic religion not only commands
us to spread the message, but also to build an empire that governs them with their
extremist understanding, and this violates our own law and understanding. For their
knowledge, this is contrary to the principles of the United Nations as well, and the
idea of ​different laws in different countries according to the needs of each country.
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates and
Yemen - all these countries defend the idea that independent states must focus on their
interests and build good relations based on UN principles, and the evil triangle does
not want to do so.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Still, is not it true that after 1979, but even before 1979, the most
conservative category in Saudi Arabia was taking oil money and using it to export
Wahhabi ideology that is more fanatical and extremist in Islam, which can be seen as
a compatible ideology With the Brotherhood's thought?

Mohammed bin Salman: Above all, this term Wahhabism - can you know us. We do
not know anything about him.

Jeffrey Goldberg: What do you mean you do not know anything about?

Mohammed bin Salman: What is Wahhabism?

 Jeffrey Goldberg: You are the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Certainly you know
Wahhabism.

Mohammed bin Salman: No one can define the term "Wahhabism".

Jeffrey Goldberg: It is a movement founded by Ibn Abdul Wahhab in the eighteenth

century, which is of a radical fundamentalist nature and a strict interpretation of
Salafism -

Mohammed bin Salman: No one can define - what you call - Wahhabism. There is no
so-called Wahhabi! We do not believe that we have Wahhabism. But in Saudi Arabia
we have Sunni Muslims as well as our Shia Muslims. We believe that in Sunni Islam
there are four schools of jurisprudence, and we have the legitimate scholars
considered as the Fatwa Council. Yes, in Saudi Arabia it is clear that our laws come
from Islam and the Koran. We have the four schools of Hanbali, Hanafi, Shafi'i, and
Malikism, which differ in some matters, and this is healthy and compassionate.

First Saudi State, Why was it established? After the Prophet Muhammad and his four
successors, people in Arabia returned to fight each other as they did thousands of
years ago. But our family, 600 years ago, established a town from scratch called
Al-Dera'iyah, before the establishment of the first Saudi state, and from this town
started the first Saudi state. It became the strongest economic part of the peninsula.
They helped change the reality. Most of the other cities, they fought on trade, hijacked
trade, but our family said to two other tribes, instead of attacking trade routes, why do
not we use you as guards for this area? So the trade grew, and the city grew. That was
the way. Three hundred years later, that is still the way. The idea has always been that
 you need all the great minds of the Arabian Peninsula - generals, tribal leaders, and
scientists - who work together. One was Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdul Wahhab.

In Saudi Arabia we have common things; we are all Muslims, we all speak Arabic,
and we all have the same culture and interest. When some of you talk about
Wahhabism, they do not know exactly what they are talking about. The family of Ibn
Abdulwahab (Al-Sheikh family) is now known, and tens of thousands of important
families are in Saudi Arabia today. You will find a Shiite in the cabinet, you will find
Shiites in government, and the most important university in Saudi Arabia headed by a
Shiite. So we think we have a mix of schools and Islamic sects.

Jeffrey Goldberg: But what about financing extremists?

Mohammed Bin Salman: When you talk about funding, especially before 1979, let's
talk about the Cold War. Communism has spread everywhere, threatening the United
States and Europe as well as us. Egypt at that time turned into a close type of this
system. We have worked with anyone we can use to get rid of communism in good
faith. Among them were the Muslim Brotherhood. They were funded in Saudi Arabia.
Financed by the United States of America.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Was it a mistake?

Mohammed bin Salman: If we go back in time, we will do the same thing. We will
deal with these people again. Because we were facing a greater danger - getting rid of
communism. Later we had to see how we could deal with the Muslim Brotherhood
(and correct their course). Remember, one of the presidents of the United States
described these people as freedom fighters.
 We tried to control their movements and evaluate them. But then came 1979; that
blew everything up. The Iranian revolution created a system based on the ideology of
pure evil. A system that does not work for the people, but serves a certain extremist
ideology. In the Sunni world, extremists were trying to reproduce the same
experience. We witnessed the attack (on the Grand Mosque) in Mecca. We were
witnessing a revolution in Iran, and they were trying to apply it in Mecca. We were
trying to keep everything connected to each other, to prevent collapse. We have faced
terrorism in Saudi Arabia and in Egypt. We have demanded that Osama bin Laden be
arrested very early, because he was not in Saudi Arabia. We suffered a lot by fighting
terrorism, until the events of September 11. This is the true story.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I ​spent a lot of time in Pakistan and Afghanistan in the late 1990s,
early in 2000, and it was generally understood that religious schools were getting
money from Saudi Arabia. It seems that what you are saying is that things are out of
control - your government, your family, did not control the spending and ideological
support, and then returned and hurt not only you but also friends and allies. Your great
project, if you have understood it correctly, is to try to contain some of the things your
country unleashed.

Mohammed bin Salman: The Muslim Brotherhood was dealt with during the Cold
War - both of us -

Jeffrey Goldberg: I'm not saying here that the United States is innocent -

Mohammed bin Salman: That is what the interest has done to us not only, but also to
our partners, including America (who knows it). We had a king who paid his life a
price trying to address these people after their penetration and refused to adjust their
course, King Faisal, one of the greatest kings of Saudi Arabia. When it comes to
 financing extremist groups, I challenge anyone who can bring evidence of Saudi
government funding for extremist groups. Yes, there are people from Saudi Arabia
who have financed terrorist groups. Against Saudi law. We have many people in
prison now, not only because of the financing of terrorist groups, but even for
supporting them. One of the reasons behind the problem with Qatar is that we do not
allow them to use our existing financial system to raise money from the Saudis and
bring it to extremist organizations.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Do you think you will not be friends with Qatar again?

Mohammed bin Salman: It must happen someday. Hope they learn quickly. That
depends on them.

Jeffrey Goldberg: You are talking unusually frankly about Iran and its ideology. You
even compared Hitler's supreme leader. What makes him like Hitler? Hitler is the
worst it can be.

Muhammad Bin Salman: In my opinion, the Supreme Leader of Iran makes Hitler
appear to be a good person.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Really?

Mohammed bin Salman: Hitler did not do what the Supreme Leader is trying to do.
Hitler tried to occupy Europe. This is bad.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes, very bad.

Mohammed bin Salman: But the Supreme Leader is trying to occupy the world. He
thinks he owns the world. They are both evil people. Hitler is the Middle East. In the
1920s and 1930s, no one looked at Hitler as a threat, just a few people, until that
happened. We do not want to see what happened in Europe to happen in the Middle
 East. We want to stop this through political, economic and intelligence moves. We
want to avoid war.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Do you think the problem is sectarian?

Muhammad Bin Salman: As I told you, Shiites enjoy normal life in Saudi Arabia. We
have no problems with Shiism. We have a problem with the ideology of the Iranian
regime (Wilayat al-Faqih). Our problem is that we do not think they have the right to
interfere in our affairs, and we will not allow them to do so anyway.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I ​have a curiosity about Donald Trump and Barack Obama on this
issue. You seem to think that Donald Trump understands this issue better than Barack
Obama.

Mohammed bin Salman: They both understand the issue. But I think President Obama
has different ways. President Obama believes that if Iran is given opportunities for
openness, it will change. But with a system based on this ideology, it will not open up
soon. Sixty percent of Iran's economy is controlled by the Revolutionary Guards. The
economic benefits of the nuclear agreement do not go to the people. They took $ 150
billion after the agreement - could it be called a housing project built with these
funds? Clown one? One industrial zone? Can you name one fast route they've created?
I advise them and ask them: Please show us something that indicates that you built a
highway with a portion of $ 150 billion! For Saudi Arabia, there is a 0.1% chance that
this agreement will change Iran. As for Barack Obama, the ratio was 50%. But even if
the probability of success is 50%, we can not risk it. The other 50% is a war. We have
to go to a scenario that does not include war.
 We are deterring these Iranian moves. We have done so in Africa, Asia, Malaysia,
Sudan, Iraq, Lebanon and Yemen. We believe that after this deterrence, the problems
will move to Iran? We do not know whether the regime will collapse or not - that is
not the goal, but if the regime collapses, this is great, that is their problem. We have a
possible war scenario in the Middle East now. We can not take the risk here. We must
make painful, painful decisions now in order to avoid painful decisions later on.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Speaking of painful decisions, do you make Yemen worse by

military actions that cause humanitarian disasters? There is a lot of justified criticism
of your bombing campaigns.

Mohammed bin Salman: First, we have to go back to the real evidence and data. The
collapse of Yemen did not begin in 2015, but in 2014, based on UN reports, not on
our reports. Their collapse began a year before the campaign began. There was a coup
against the legitimate government in Yemen. On the other hand, al-Qaeda tried to use
this step to its own advantage and to promote its own ideas. We fought to get rid of
the extremists in Syria and Iraq, and then they started to create a haven in Yemen.
Eliminating extremists in Yemen is harder than getting rid of them in Iraq or Syria.
Our campaign is focused on helping the legitimate government and achieving
stability. Saudi Arabia is trying to help the people of Yemen. The largest donor to
Yemen is Saudi Arabia. The people who manipulate this aid are the Huthis, who do
not control about 10 percent of Yemen.

What I want to say here, to make it simple, is that sometimes in the Middle East you
do not have good decisions and bad decisions. Sometimes you have bad decisions and
worse decisions. Sometimes we have to choose the bad option. We do not want to
come here, as Saudi Arabia, to ask us these questions. We want to ask questions about
 the economy, our partnerships, and investment in America (and development) in
Saudi Arabia. We do not want to spend our lives in the debate about Yemen. This is
not about choice. It is about security and life for us.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Do you believe in the equality of women?

Mohammed bin Salman: I support Saudi Arabia, and half of Saudi Arabia are women.
So I support women.

Jeffrey Goldberg: But what about equality? And achieve them in society?

Mohammed bin Salman: In our religion there is no difference between men and
women. There are duties on men and there are duties on women. But there are
different forms of our understanding of equality. In Saudi Arabia, for example,
women pay the same amount of money as men. These regulations will be applied to
the private sector. We do not want to discriminate against different people.

Jeffrey Goldberg: But what about state laws on women? Do you want to change it
permanently? I think everyone is impressed by your decision to allow women to drive,
but for many Americans, the key issues are the real structural obstacles to women's
equality.

Before 1979, there were more flexible social customs, and there were no state laws in
Saudi Arabia. I am not talking about a long time ago in the era of the Prophet. In the
1960s, women were not obliged to travel with their male relatives (as long as they
were in safe companionship). But this is happening now, and we hope to find a way to
resolve this so as not to harm the families and does not harm the culture.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Will these laws be repealed?

 Mohammed Bin Salman: There are many conservative families in Saudi Arabia.
There are many different families in their understanding and habits inside; some
families like to have absolute power over their members, and some women do not
want men to control them. There are families that consider this a good thing. There
are open families that offer women and girls greater freedom as they want. So if I say
yes to that question, it means that I create problems for families that do not want to
give their daughters freedom. The Saudis do not want to lose their identity. It is true
that we want to be part of the global culture. But we want to integrate our culture with
global identity (without affecting it).

Jeffrey Goldberg: Now I have a question about values. You come from a country
quite different from ours - your country has absolute property, a place where people
can not vote, and where corporal punishment and the death penalty are found in ways
that many Americans do not like -

Mohammed bin Salman: We do not share the same values. But I also believe that the
various states in the United States do not share exactly the same values. There are
different values ​between California and Texas. So how do you want us to share your
values ​100% when you do not share the same values? Of course there are basic
principles of values ​shared by all human beings. But there are differences, from state
to state, from country to country.

Jeffrey Goldberg: But what about absolute property?

Mohammed bin Salman: Absolute property is not a threat to any country. You say
"absolute property" as a threat. Without absolute ownership, you would not have the
United States. Absolute monarchy in France helped establish the United States
 through its support. Absolute property is not an enemy of the United States. It is an
ally for a very long time.

Jeffrey Goldberg: This is a smart answer, but it's on a different subject.

Mohammed bin Salman: Well, every country, every regime, must apply what people
think is applicable. Saudi Arabia is a network of thousands of absolute monarchies,
and the absolute absolute monarchy exists. We have tribal property systems, such as
sheikhs and heads of centers on their tribes, and urban ownership systems. They
govern and their sons will rule after them. Moving against this structure would create
big problems in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi structure is more complex than you think. In
fact, our property does not have absolute power. Its strength is based on law. If he
issues a royal decree, he can not say: "I am King Salman and I decide that." If you
read the decrees, you will first see a list of laws that allow the king to make this
decision. By the way, Queen of the United Kingdom, has absolute power to change
any law. But it does not. So it's complicated.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Is it possible to move towards a system in which people vote for
their representatives? When you start letting people choose who represents them,
that's the change.

Mohammed bin Salman: What I can do is to promote the power of law. We want to
encourage freedom of expression as much as we can, as long as we do not give the
opportunity to extremism to emerge. We can improve women's rights - according to
our controls - and improve the economy. We have challenges here, but we have to do
them.
 One of the American visitors told me something really exciting. He said that the
Americans do not understand the difference between two things - between the end,
and the way. The end here is development, rights and freedom. The way to reach it, in
the American view, is through democracy, but the way to reach it in Saudi Arabia is
through our more complex system.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Let's talk more about the Middle East. Do you think that the Jewish
people have the right to have a nation-state at least in part of their ancestral
homeland?

Mohammed bin Salman: I generally think that every people, anywhere, has the right
to live in a peaceful country. I think Palestinians and Israelis have the right to own
their own land. But we must have a just and equitable peace agreement to ensure
stability for all and to establish normal relations among peoples.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Do you have no objection on religious grounds to the existence of

Israel?

Mohammed bin Salman: I confirm that we have religious concerns about the fate of
Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem and about the rights of the Palestinian people. That's
what we have. We have no objection to the existence of any other persons in
accordance with an equitable peace treaty.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Saudi Arabia has traditionally been a place to produce a lot of
anti-Semitic propaganda. Do you think you have a problem with anti-Semitism in
your country?

Mohammed bin Salman: Our country has no problem with the Jews. Our Prophet
Mohammed married a Jewish woman. He had not only a Jewish friend - he married
the Jews. And his neighbors were Jews. There are many Jews in Saudi Arabia coming
from America and from Europe to work. There are no problems between Muslims,
Christians and Jews. We have problems like those among some people anywhere in
the world. But it is the normal kind of problem.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Do you think Iran makes you close to Israel? Without Iran, can you
imagine a situation in which you have other common interests with Israel?

"There is a lot of potential economic interests we may share with Israel, once there is
a just peace. There will be a lot of interests between Israel and the GCC countries, and
countries such as Egypt and Jordan," he said.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I'm curious about your youth. This is a very complex task for a
young man

Mohammed Bin Salman: I believe that people learn until the last day of their lives.
Anyone who claims to know everything knows nothing really. What we are trying to
do is to learn quickly, understand quickly, and be surrounded by intelligent people. I
do not think my youth is a problem. I think the best inventions came from young
people. Apple is a good example. Apple was created by Steve Jobs when he began to
innovate in his early 20s. The same applies to social networking sites, Facebook
created by a young man who is still young. I think my generation can add a lot.

Jeffrey Goldberg: One of the things Steve Jobs had was freedom. He lived in a
country where you can do anything. I do not think anyone would describe Saudi
Arabia as a place where you can do anything from a human rights perspective, from
the perspective of freedom.

‫ ﰲ اﻟﺴﻌﻮدﯾﺔ ﳝﻜﻨﻚ اﻟﻘﯿﺎم ﺑﺄي ﺷﻲء ﺗﺮﯾﺪه واﻟﻌﻤﻞ ﻋﻠﻰ ﺗﻄﻮﯾﺮ أي ﻣﺸﺮوع‬:‫ﳏﻤﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺳﻠﻤﺎن‬
.‫ ﻫﻨﺎك ﻣﻌﯿﺎر ﳐﺘﻠﻒ ﻓﯿﻤﺎ ﯾﺘﻌﻠﻖ ﲝﺮﯾﺔ اﻟﺘﻌﺒﲑ‬.‫ﺎل اﻟﺘﺠﺎري‬‫ﺑﺎﻟﻄﺮﯾﻘﺔ اﻟﱵ ﺗﺮﯾﺪﻫﺎ ﰲ ا‬
‫أي ﺷﺨﺺ ﺑﻮﺳﻌﻪ ﻛﺘﺎﺑﺔ ﻣﺎ ﯾﺮﯾﺪه‬- ‫ﻓﻠﺪﯾﻨﺎ ﰲ اﻟﺴﻌﻮدﯾﺔ ﺛﻼﺛﺔ ﺧﻄﻮط ﻻ ﳝﻜﻨﻚ اﺟﺘﯿﺎزﻫﺎ‬
‫ وﻫﺬا اﻷﻣﺮ ﻻ ﯾﻌﺘﻤﺪ ﻋﻠﻰ ﻣﺎ ﯾﻨﺼﺐ ﰲ ﻣﺼﻠﺤﺔ‬.‫ دون ﲡﺎوز ﻫﺬه اﳋﻄﻮط‬،‫واﻟﺘﺤﺪث ﻋﻤﺎ ﯾﺮﯾﺪ‬
‫ ﻓﻼ ﳝﻜﻨﻚ ﺗﺸﻮﯾﻪ ﲰﻌﺔ اﻹﺳﻼم أو‬،‫ اﳋﻂ اﻷول ﻫﻮ اﻹﺳﻼم‬.‫اﳊﻜﻮﻣﺔ ﺑﻞ ﻋﻠﻰ ﻣﺼﻠﺤﺔ اﻟﺸﻌﺐ‬
‫ ﰲ أﻣﺮﯾﻜﺎ‬-‫ﻟﻠﺘﻮﺿﯿﺢ‬- ‫ واﳋﻂ اﻟﺜﺎﻧﻲ‬.‫ وﻫﺬا اﻷﻣﺮ ﳌﺼﻠﺤﺔ اﻟﺸﻌﺐ اﻟﺴﻌﻮدي‬.‫اﻟﺘﺠﺎوز ﻋﻠﯿﻪ‬
‫ ﺑﯿﻨﻤﺎ ﰲ اﻟﺴﻌﻮدﯾﺔ ﳝﻜﻨﻚ اﻧﺘﻘﺎد وزارة‬.‫ ﳝﻜﻨﻚ اﻧﺘﻘﺎد ﺷﺨﺺ وﺷﺮﻛﺘﻪ أو وزﯾﺮ ووزارﺗﻪ‬،‫ﻣﺜﻼ‬
‫ وﯾﺆﻣﻨﻮن‬،‫ﻢ ﯾﺮﻓﻀﻮن اﻟﺘﺠﺎوزات اﻟﺸﺨﺼﯿﺔ‬‫ ﻓﺈ‬،‫ وﻟﻜﻦ ﺑﻨﺎء ﻋﻠﻰ ﺛﻘﺎﻓﺔ اﻟﺴﻌﻮدﯾﲔ‬،‫وﺷﺮﻛﺔ‬
‫ ﻫﺬا ﺟﺰء ﻣﻦ اﻟﺜﻘﺎﻓﺔ اﻟﺴﻌﻮدﯾﺔ‬.‫ﺑﻀﺮورة اﻻﺑﺘﻌﺎد ﻋﻦ ﺷﺨﺼﻨﺔ اﻷﻣﻮر‬.

The third line is national security. We are in an area not surrounded by Mexico,
Canada, the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific. But we have organized the Islamic state,
al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian regime, and even pirates. We have pirates
hijacking ships. So anything that might harm national security, we can not risk in
Saudi Arabia. We do not want to see things happening in Iraq happening in Saudi
Arabia. But otherwise, the people have the freedom to do whatever they want. For
example, we did not block Twitter. Or access to social media, Twitter, Facebook and
Snape Chat. All available to all Saudis. We have the largest proportion of people
using social networking sites around the world. In Iran they block social networking
sites, as in some other countries. Saudis have free access to social media around the
world.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I'm not sure whether Twitter is good for civilization. But this will
leave him to discuss the future with you. thank you very much.