Bishop Barron On ''Why I Hate Religion, But !

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Bishop Barron on "Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus"
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Bishop Robert Barron
Published on Jan 18, 2012
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3,780 Comments NOT ALL
Vincent Krische
3 years ago
I left a negative comment on this video 2 years ago and have since come to value Fr. Robert
Barron's Youtube channel and Catholicism series. I was upset with institutional corruption within
the church and the idea of separating Jesus from religion appealed to me. Fr. Robert Barron has
made a huge difference in my life even though I have never met him and the fact that I
commented negatively on this video bothered me. To be honest I never made it past the
beginning before I got defensive. Fr. Barron thank you for the difference you have made in my
life.
458
Kadie Johnson
Kadie Johnson
3 years ago
I saw the Catholicism series by error on PBS and it changed my life. I now have a context of
understanding many things that would befuddle me previously. Thanks also to these YouTube
commentaries.
27
Dottor B
Dottor B
2 years ago (edited)
+Vincent Krische Now THAT is a public expression of manliness and humility. Good on ya!
29
Jesus Sanchez
Jesus Sanchez
1 year ago
Vincent Krische you in my eyes are what I call a miracle from God, I will share your testimony to
my students may God bless you :)
7
Thomas Marabella
Thomas Marabella
1 year ago
keep me in your prayers.
4
Clara Martinez
Clara Martinez
1 year ago
That's awesome. AND THAT'S GRACE.
That is where we become more like Jesus and not be so defensive and argumentative.
I admire teachers like this gentleman, because even though some of his religious practices are
not biblical, he by grace is still able to deliver a great response.
5
Bee
Bee
11 months ago
I have had the same experience in the past, not about Father Barron but another speaker. It is
good to grow in this way and also to recognize that we are all vulnerable to this defensiveness.
Growth is obvious by your comment.
2
Donny Rausch
Donny Rausch
11 months ago
What a great thing, to have the humility to make up for a past post. Pretty rare. This was good to
read. (Incidentally, you have the same name as Father Vincent Krische, a priest in Lawrence, KS,
who is a wonderful and thoughtful person, and a great theological teacher.)
1
sealed secure
sealed secure
11 months ago
Vincent Krische ...wow. Have you read Galatians 2:20-21 lately? or The whole third chapter of
Galatians? or John 6:36-40, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 5:24! I could go on and on. Salvation is by
faith alone.if it wasnt, we would all burn in hell.
sealed secure
sealed secure
11 months ago (edited)
Vanessa's Daily Journal ..James is one of my favorite books, but sadly you and many others don't
understand CONTEXT or the gospel ( the good news).
James was not saying a person is saved by works or that faith plus works is what is required to
receive eternal life. If this was true then that means Paul lied to us many times in many verses
where he explains salvation is gift by faith and NOT(emphasis added in caps)of any works.
( Galatians 2:20-21, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4, and so on)..
James was simply speaking to BRETHREN concerning faith mixed with works being a better
benefit to OTHERS. Not only do works that are good help a fellow brother/sister in the Lord
( financially, spiritually, you name it) but works also serve as a testimony to unbelievers who
don't understand God's grace/ the gospel, or those who accuse us as using grace as licence to
sin. In other words, works mixed with the faith that saved you in the first place helps brethren,
and unbelievers. James 2 is not about salvation. Hebrews 6:1-4 is another one people take out of
context..I have a video I did on Hebrews 6 if you want to check my channel out. I myself once
thought I could somehow contribute to Christ's FINISHED work by my own works and make it to
heaven. Then I realized how much I always fall short, then I read Isaiah 64:6 and Romans 3, and
many many scriptures, then changed my mind ( repented) and believed the gospel ...
Grace and peace to you and yours.
sealed secure
sealed secure
11 months ago
Vanessa's Daily Journal ..awsome verse! thankfully those verses were talking about unbelievers (
i.e. the dead).
And thankful for Jesus's perfect words in John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal
life, and does NOT come into judgment, but HAS PASSED out of death into life."
sealed secure
sealed secure
11 months ago
Vanessa's Daily Journal ...
I think you confuse the " judgment seat of Christ" with the
" white throne judgment " in Revelation 20( which is after the rapture of the church, tribulation/
antichrist/ and 1000 year reign of Christ)...
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the
heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great,
stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the
book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their
works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And
whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15
The"Judgment seat of Christ" is for believers(most likely " church age believers")
If believers who live NOW will be judged along with the unsaved in Revelation, then what did
Paul mean here?
"Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before
the saints? Do ye not know that the saints( believers) shall JUDGE the world? and if the world
shall be judged BY YOU, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we
shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1 Corinthians 6:1-3"
The sheep and goats would be after the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth(Revelation 20 is the
sheep and goat judgment) . At that time there will be believers who are ushered in to eternal life
in the kingdom, and unbelievers cast into the lake of fire.
sealed secure
sealed secure
11 months ago
"Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto Him, I know that he shall
rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the
life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and
believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
John 11:23-26
Christ was judged already on account of ALL of your sins. God's judgment and wrath concerning
all of your sin was poured out on Christ when He hung on those nails for you. He is our
propitiation. The Fathers wrath was satisfied FULLY at the cross. It was finished.
Once a person is IN CHRIST they are clean, justified, made rightouse holy, blameless, alive,
passed out of death and in to life, because they are FULLY covered by the perfect blood of the
Lamb.
that's why Jesus said what He said in John 11.

sealed secure
sealed secure
11 months ago
Vanessa's Daily Journal ..also if I don't reply again tonight I will tomarrow. I got to daughters that
I gotta put to bed and early work. lol. I appreciate the dialog. Have a good night. God bless
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
10 months ago
You said: "James 2 is not about salvation." Yet if you look at the text it says.....vs 14.... "What
good is it my brothers if a man claims to have faith but has not deed? Can faith save him?" If,
as you say this passage is not about "salvation" then why did James use the word "saved."
Salvation and saved likely are connected in their root word.
You continue: " James was simply speaking to BRETHREN concerning faith mixed with works
being a better benefit to OTHERS." Yet again I would direct you to the words of the text. Vs 20
"Was not Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the
altar?" or vs 24 " You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone"
Clearly you we are not dealing with "context" here. We are dealing with statements by the
Apostle James. Abraham was not considered righteous (by God) for thinking about offering his
son, or by just giving mental accent to what God said, it was his act of obedience. Similarly
James is not talking about "being a better benefit to OTHERS" as you say. Clearly he is talking
about "justification."
You are simply changing the scriptures to fit a false view of the atonement. I was a
fundamentalist until I was 56 years old. I could not longer stand the intellectual dishonesty of
Christian fundamentalism. I was even part of Reformed theology for a while. It has a certain
appeal to intellectual superiority.
There are so many scriptures you have to change or omit to make your theology work. Peter
says that Baptism now saves you, not by the washing of the skin....but by the creation of a clear
conscience before God. How does baptism get its power? He says by the power of the
resurrection of Christ.
What about the beatitudes and the teaching of Christ? Do we "dispense" with them using
"dispensational" theology to make your theology work too? Blessed are the peacemakers for
they shall be called the Sons of God. Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you
because great is your reward in heaven. Every tree that does not bear fruit is torn down and
thrown into the fire. Not everyone who say to me Lord, Lord will enter the kindgdom of heaven,
but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven....
Or since you like Paul you can meditate on I Cor 15......."I want to remind you of the gospel I
preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you
are saved if you hold firmly to the word I preached to. Otherwise you have believed in vain.
Notice they had received the Gospel and had taken their stand on the gospel, yet if they did not
"hold firmly to the Word" their conversion did them no good.
Also notice the order in which Christ appeared to the disciples in this passage. First to Peter, then
to the Twelve. Then to the 500. Then to James then to all the other apostles (there were more
than 12 by that time). Then he appeared lastly to Paul. Does the order have any significance?
Many protestants say no. But Paul said the order was important. Paul was last because he was
the least of the Apostles. Peter on the other hand was the first of the Apostles to see Christ after
his resurrection.
You might look at some of those verses you mention again. "For by grace are you saved through
faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast" It is
God's grace that saves us. And faith is not mere mental accent of saying.....Lord,Lord, I accept
you.
I remember reading a sermon of Luther not too long ago. His view of the atonement was
presented as an analogy. He said the atonement was pictured as a pile of dog dung after a snow
storm. The dung is covered by a thin layer of snow. He said that is like conversion. The snow is
like Christs righteousness. At conversion we are covered with a thin layer of Christs
righteousness so when God looks at us he sees only Christs righteousness. Yet underneath we
are still a pile of filthy dung. But I ask you if that is the kind of "conversion" God wants us to
have. In the Gospels he referred to the Pharisees as "whited walls." God does care what is
going on inside of us.
4
sealed secure
sealed secure
10 months ago
prairie mark ...im not a theologian, you see what I believe, and what I hold firm to. I'm not sure if
I can say anything else to convince a mind that seems to be made up. I once held to your "
theology" then I was saved by the finished work of Christ. Grace alone, through faith alone, in
Christ alone.
prairie mark
prairie mark
I was a fundamentalist until I came home to Historic Christianity at age 56. In fact I was
probably a pretty good fundamentalist. When I was young we went to church several times a
week. I read Christian books. C.S. Lewis, Charles Hodge, Ben Warfield, BoettnerRon Sider and
many more. I had a small library of Christian books. , Listened to literally hundreds of hours of
videos by John McArthur and David Jeremiah. Went to Bible college. Had a Bible memorization
program that even included memorizing whole books of the Bible. Later I worked through
Luther and Augustines major works. Even did some directed readings under the head of the
theology department. My mother knew Billy Graham when she was in nursing school in Chicago
in the 1940s. One uncle and aunt couple helped Jerry Falwell get some his graduate schools
going. They both had PhDs in education. Another Uncle helped Oral Roberts start the City of
Hope Medical Center. He was a medical school teacher. My sister was finished first in her class
at both Moody Bible Institute and Wheaton College. I could go on but you get the idea.
What always puzzled me was how the fundamentalist theology that I believed and defended so
strongly seemed to be unknown in the early Church. It was not mentioned either as of
Christianity. The Apostolic Fathers believed like the Catholics. Baptismal regeneration, the Real
Presence of Christ at the Eucharist, the Authority of the Bishop. Ignatius of Antioch, Justin
Martyr, Ireneaus of Lyons, all sound very Catholic. I tried as hard as I could to make them 20th
Century North American Fundamentalists, but I could not without twisting their writings to the
point of dishonesty. Their doctrine, their view of church government and authority was more
like the Catholics than the fundamentalists. I fought that truth for years but the evidence is
overwhealming. I read the fundamentalists who tried to interpret them as Baptists and I knew in
my heart they were not being honest. Then I tried the other approach by saying that the Church
fell away from the truth right after the Apostles died. But that didnt work. Ignatius worked with
the Apostle John. Tradition has it that Peter even recommended he be bishop of Antioch before
he died. Peter died somewhere around A.D. 66. Evodius was bishop of Antioch from about 63 to
70. And Ignatius was Bishop from 70 to almost to his martyrdom around 110 A.D. And later
Christians referred to his writings and even read them in their services much like scripture. Of
course there was no agreement among the Bishops as to what was N.T. Scripture until almost
400 A.D. I should not say no agreement, but not complete agreement. Even Clements epistle
was read in some Churches for over a hundred years after he died. The idea these guys were
great heretics just did not seem logical to me.
Then of course I had fundamentalism to deal with. I went through three big church splits. I saw
some of the worst power struggles I have seen. Worse than on the school board. Worse than in
local government. Each side always had their list of verses that proved their points. And they
would point to their verses and say....there is the Word of God and it says what I believe. Of
course they were usually shifting the infallibility from the pages of the Sacred Word to their
interpretation of it, often without even realizing it. I saw a couple of examples of sexual abuse
by clergy. My sister had that happen in her large Baptist Church too. And what happens usually?
It is swept under the carpet. The pastor leaves and the people are told not to talk about it
because it will hurt the reputation of the church. In the church were I was baptized in they
changed the doctrinal statement in major ways three times in my lifetime. Yet each time it was
regarded as "Gods eternal Truth." Agreement to it was required for membership. One of my
friends was a 90 year old founding member of the church and he was asked to pledge his loyalty
to the new form of church government and new doctrines. He left the Church. This kind of stuff
goes on all over the fundamentalist world in North America. That is why there are thousands of
Protestant sects all with different teachings. There is no final arbiter of tr"uth other than each
persons private interpretation of what "the Bible means to me.
I remember hearing both Jeremiah and McArthur say that purgatory was a second chance for
Catholics to get to heaven. Even a cursory understanding of Catholicism would have you
understand that purgatory is a place where only "saved" people go. When fundamentalists ask
me how I can believe in purgatory I find it helpful to ask them if a Christian dies what happens to
the sins that might still be in their lives when they die. Usually they say..."God takes care of it." I
say...Bingo..that is what purgatory is. Many Catholics believe it is a place. Some do not. Actually
fundamentalists believe something that is very close to purgatory.
I could go on more. My conversion from man-made fundamentalist tradition to Historic

Christianity took far too long. But I hung onto what was familiar and what I was comfortable
with. Eventually I realized that God wanted me to be intellectually honest. It does not honor
God to be either ignorant or dishonest.
I wish you well on your journey. Thanks for the interaction.

13
Sam Stowell
Sam Stowell
10 months ago
Its in our own choice if we want to or not, the video he is talking about got a outrageous amount
of views. It might of just been because its moving for how we look on things. That video
probably has been seen by other nations as well, or just only focused on the US.
1
Kato Cedric
Kato Cedric
@prairie mark
Love does not keep a record of wrongs. When we accept God's love through Jesus, who is His
ultimate love, we are declared children of God - no sin can taint our hearts if Jesus is in it :D
I believe all our sins are thrown away with the death of Jesus, and its because of that, that I look
away from temptations because I dont want to have added another sin for which Jesus died for..
I sin (because we are not perfect until we're made whole in Chirst) but I dont call myself a sinner,
because I acknowledge what Jesus died for. He died for me to be called a child of God ~ nothing
else
God bless on your journey too!!! ^ - ^
sealed secure
sealed secure
9 months ago
Kato Cedric ..amen
sealed secure
sealed secure
I propose that if an apostle referred to themselves as a sinner rather that a saint, it's because the
particular audience was most likely still in the milk stage of maturity in Christ. Paul knew full well
his sins( past present and future) have been removed and that his new identity was blameless,
born of imperishible seed. that's why he said this in Romans 7...
"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I
would not, IT IS NO MORE I THAT DO IT, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when
I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into
captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."
Romans 7:19-23
also not to mention Galatians 2:20-21

prairie mark
prairie mark
9 months ago
Sealed Secure says: That Paul says all sins are forgiven, past present AND FUTURE. I see none
of the scriptures he quotes from Paul say that. That is his interpretation of Paul, not what Paul
said. Furthermore John says (clearly to Christians) "If you confess your sins he is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins." John teaches that for the Christian forgiveness of sins is contingent upon
confession. Who are we to believe? Someone in rebellion against the Church and the teaching
of the Apostles, or the Apostle himself? We have a choice here.
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
Kato: John says to Christians: If we say we have no sin we are liars and the truth is not in us.
Catholics have a benediction I like "Build yourself up in THE MOST HOLY FAITH and keep
yourselves in the love of God. Paul says....I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you,
which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel are you saved IF
YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I PREACHED to you. When I was a fundamentalist I was taught
that one "personal experience" with Jesus Christ was all I needed. That is not what the Apostles
taught. One can receive the good news. We can take our stand on the death burial and
resurrection of Christ and if we do not hold firmly to our faith it will turn out to be empty. We
should listen to the Apostles. Confession is required for forgiveness of sins committed as
Christians. Taking the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist is essential. (Unless you eat the
body of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life in you.) Participating in the
sacramental life of the Church on a regular basis is essential. Walking in obedience to Christ is
essential. You cannot find a doctrinal statement or a creed from the early Church that teaches
what you are presenting. I want the Apostolic faith, not a collection of man made traditions
that arose later in history. Fundamentalism strives to uphold the fundamentals of the faith such
as the deity of Christ and his death, burial and resurrection of Christ. But they reject the
authority of the Church. The goal of fundamentalism is to eliminate the Biblical role of the
Church in baptism, in giving the Eucharist and in ruling the Church. The early church knew
nothing of baptism or communion that was merely symbolic. Nor did they recognize private
interpretation of scriptures by laity. And of course having self-governing local churches was
unknown as well.
1
sealed secure
sealed secure
9 months ago
prairie mark ...you should re read my sentance..i didnt say Paul said that, I said he "knew" that
his sins ( all of them) where payed for...its simple logic to say past present future sins where
payed for especially for people today. none of us were even alive 2000 years ago. ALL OUR SINS
WHERE FUTURE WHEN HIS BLOOD WAS SHED FOR THEM.
sealed secure
sealed secure
9 months ago
the context of that passage is simply not salvation. Paul is referring to the benefit of outwardly
reflecting a godly Christ like walk for the benefit of influencing the brethren for good works, and
for unbelievers to be saved. the prize is not eternal life or " final salvation " it's the reward of
souls being saved by the gospel he preached and the peaceful fruit of maturity amongst
brethren. if he didn't make his body his slave and outwardly act a way contrary to a saints
reasonable service( Romans 12), Paul felt he would be disqualified in that sense. not for
salvation.
prairie mark
prairie mark
If you want to parse words this is your "sentence." " Paul knew full well his sins( past present
and future) have been removed and that his new identity was blameless," From this statement
and several others that you made it is reasonable to conclude that you are maintaining that at
conversion all of the sins of a Christian are forgiven, past, present and future. If you do not
believe this then disavow it. The Bible is clear that Christians are not "blameless" when they sin.
To maintain that they are is a heresy and contradicts so much of the teaching of Christ and of
Paul.
Would you explain to me how you understand the statement of St John when he wrote to
Christians..."If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins...." How can
one take his writing seriously and not believe that forgiveness of sins committed by the Christian
is dependent upon confession? The once saved, always saved teaching was not known in the
early Church. It arose much later in Church history. Why is that? Please show me a creed or a
doctrinal statement from the first thousand years of Christianity that teaches the doctrines you
believe.
sealed secure
sealed secure
9 months ago
prairie mark ...John was addressing the problem of Gnosticism that was creeping around in that
time period..its clear if you read starting from verse 1...he is not speaking of verbal confession
but rather exhorting ones who deny the sin problem/ nature.." if we say that we have not sinned
then the truth is not in you"
i propose that every true born again believer didn't need a refresher on these facts..the
acknowledgement of sin is the main factor that lead them to salvation in the first place.
1
sealed secure
sealed secure
9 months ago
Vanessa's Daily Journal .. The bible I have today I trust is His word. The questions you just asked
are interesting and I'm sure hold some value, but to me it makes something simple complex. I'm
an heir according to the promise made to Abraham, spiritually circumcised, placed in the family
of the Ancient of Days, by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ. I'm not a scholar,
just a city boy washed in the precious blood of the Lamb.
prairie mark
prairie mark
Sealed secure: You have a way of avoiding questions that challenge the validity of your religious
tradition. I know it is hard to go through scriptures and interpret everything in harmony with
doctrinal traditions that arose many hundreds of years later. But that is the task you are up
against based on your choice of the theology you chose. You are put in the difficult position of
interpreting both the Sacred Word and church history in a way that is different from the Apostles
who wrote the scriptures and different from the way the church received the gospel understood
it. The apostles and the early Church believed in a sacramental theology where the Bishops had
authority and gifts passed on to them by previous Bishops. Paul spoke to Timothy of the gifts
that were in him by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. In order to make the
fundamentalist system work then all the sacraments must be destroyed. This is the goal of a lot
of Bible interpretation regardless if it is stated or unstated. In my case as a fundamentalist I was
even not conscious of this. It was decades of Bible reading and being exposed to early Church
history before I realized that the early Church was sacramental. And until that time I had to
strive to eliminate baptismal regeneration, confession, and the importance of the Blessing of the
Eucharist by the Bishop. So I accepted the traditions that were not represented in the beliefs of
Apostolic and Post-Apostolic Christianity. It didn't matter if Peter said in the Gospels it was for
forgiveness of sins and to receive the Holy Spirit. It didn't matter if Paul said over and over we
were Baptized into Christ. And in Peter's epistle when he said that water baptism now saves
you. The waters of Noah's flood represented baptism. Not a baptism that only washed your
skin, but a water baptism that gave you a clear conscience toward God. But to be a
fundamentalist, I had to doctor all these passages. And I had to doctor all the writings of the
early church Fathers as well. I actually believed the early Christians thought baptism was just
symbolic. I defended that view in various ways, ignoring many scriptures, putting big emphasis
on other verses particularly Pauls writing that were taken out of context. I did this because for
me the context that counted was North American fundamentalism. I did all my interpretation
out of a tradition that was unknown in the early Church. I accepted uncritically things like
Luther's view of imputation. That Christians were viewed as sinless only by imputed
righteousness. This makes conversion a one time event, often an experience. In one of Luther's
sermon's I read he spoke about snow covering a pile of dung. Then God would look at that pile
and just see the snow (Christs righteousness). It seemed matter less if we were like whited walls
that looked good on the outside. If we had that experience with Christ we were O.K. Once I
started to see problems with Luthers views, then I had to reconsider other parts of my
fundamentalist teachings that were even farther from Historic Christianity. Self-governing
churches, no authority given to Bishops, no need for the Church in baptism and communion,
dispensational theology and so forth. So much of what I was taught was not like historic
Christianity.
The Catholic view of conversion as a long process where a person is actually changed seems to
be consistent with both Biblical revelation and the understanding of the early Church. Clearly if
we take the Biblical record seriously conversion is not a one-time, irreversible experience. You
tell me to read the whole book starting at the start. So I will mention some of the high points of
I John. 1:7 If we walk in the light ......we have fellowship with one another and the blood of
Jesus , his Son purifies us from all sin. Here John states the purification of our sins by Christ is
contingent upon walking in the light. I John 1:9 If we confess our sins......he will forgive us our
sins. (forgiveness of sins committed by Christians is dependent upon confession.) I John
2:17 .....the man who does the will of God lives forever." The clear implication is that those
who do not do the will of God will not live forever. I John 2:24 See that what you have heard
from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you will remain in the Son.....and this is what he
promised us, even eternal life. I am writing these things to you about those who are leading you
astray. Here John is warning us about those who don't think remaining in Christ is essential.
Walking in the light is essential to have the purification of Christ. Confession is essential for
forgiveness. Doing the will of God is essential to "live forever." Eternal life is waiting for believers
in Christ IF the gospel that you first heard remains in you. There is a clear warning here against
those who remove essential elements of the gospel like the need to walk in the light, confession,
doing the will of God. These are all linked with our eternal life in Apostolic Theology.
Likely what John was addressing was partly or mostly Gnosticism. But each of us need to
examine our own beliefs and see if we are leaning toward Gnostic thought. Do we minimize or
even despise the physical? Do we spritualize everything? Is the water of baptism important?
Is the physical body of Christ important in communion? Is the gospel that was first preached
important or can we accept a new gospel that says the physical is not important? Do we accept
a gospel that says if we have a spiritual experience then we are saved forever and ever
regardless of what we do with our body? James rejects such a "gospel." Paul says be not
deceived. He says that those who do a long list of sins will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
Yet....I heard from my fundamentalist teachers and writers and I think from you that Christ has
forgiven all these sins at conversion without a need for confession. Be sure you are a part of
historic Christianity and not a later modification that deceives people.
Back to confession. Boldly state: John is not talking about a verbal confession. Upon what do
you base this. In the Jewish community and earliest Christian communities confession was done
before the congregation. We can see an example of that in Matthew when Christ tells the
brother who will not repent before the congregation. Christ gave the disciples authority to
forgive sins and to withhold forgiveness of sins. How do you think the disciples knew about the
sins to be confessed? Do you think it was by mental telepathy or was it some other way, perhaps
verbally? How do you know that John was not talking about Confession that was partially or
completely verbal ? You boldly made the assertion that "he is not speaking of verbal
confession." How did you determine this the unqualified meaning of the passage? Could it be
you are interpreting scripture based on a tradition that evolved later rather than from the
Biblical and historic pattern of the Church?
Please explain to me what "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins"
means to you? Do you not see any connection between confession and forgiveness here? If
you believe all sin are forgiven at conversion including future sins, then why does the Apostle
teach otherwise?
This is an important question.
2
sealed secure
sealed secure
9 months ago
prairie mark ...i answered questions honestly, plus I'm at work. I apologize if I missed some
prairie mark
prairie mark
9 months ago
I would never want you to be negligent in your work to answer a post. Please think about what
John is talking about. Over and over he says our salvation depends on how we respond to God
(and he is speaking to Christians). If we walk in the light, if we confess our sins, if a man does
the will of God he will live forever, if you hold fast to what we first taught you you will have
eternal life. To continue to be a fundamentalist I would have had to doctor the Bible from the
start to finish. And then I would have to doctor all the Church Fathers too. At a certain point I
had to recognize that God wanted me to be intellectually honest about these things. I wish you
the best. Just sharing some of the struggles I went through over thirty years. Let me tell you
fundamentalism had a strong hold on me and it was only cast out slowly over a long period of
time.
prairie mark
prairie mark
Sealed: One of the things that troubled me when I was a fundamentalist was a lack of interest in
history. God's plan unfolds through the ages. If you think the Bible was handed to Christians in
completed form from heaven when Christ rose from the dead, then that belief will lead to a
different kind of faith than if you read and understand how the Bible was formed over hundreds
of years within the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I am not saying you believe
that but some act like they do.
I began to realize that much of the world was evangelized and many of the major heresies were
dealt with before the canon of the New Testament was decided on. This changed my
understanding of a lot of things. Paul said the Church was the Pillar and Foundation of truth.
The "bible only" view just did not work very well before the Bible as a completed work even
existed.
When I realized all of the variant manuscripts the translators have to deal with it changed my
perspective on what the infallibility of scripture means. I read the translators preface to the
KJV1611 version. The preface frankly explained that there were many words and names in the
Bible that the translators did not know what the Hebrew or Greek words for them meant. This
opened my eyes. When I saw possible alternative translations in the margin it made more
sense knowing that.. When KJV translation team said they encouraged all readers to read
several translations to get a better sense of what passage meant, it revealed to me how far off
some of the KJV only cults were from the truth. This knowledge allowed me to understand that
the kind of "inerrancy" I had been taught was a great simplification of the truth. God doesn't
want us to be ignorant of the truth he has revealed either through the scriptures or through
history. All truth is God's truth. Sometimes a need to simplify complex issues can lead us to be
intellectually lazy. Paul told Timothy to study to be a workman that should not be ashamed. And
he did not qualify that passage and say "just study the scriptures." He wanted him to study
anything that might make him better able to interpret the Bible for the pastors and parishioners
he was responsible for. Sometimes we just have to decide to add issues to study to the list of
things we want to know about. This is especially true if we want to intelligently comment on
threads like this. When I decided to follow both historic and Biblical truth and asked God to
guide me it started my journey away from the recently invented kind of Christianity back to the
Historic Christianity represented by Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
You may have seen the bumper sticker that says :The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it." It
might give the person who puts it on his car a sense of orthodoxy or even Christian maturity.
But what it shows is a lack of understanding of what the issue is. The important issue regarding
the Bible is not "what it says." The Bible says the same regardless of which of the several good
translations you use. The issue is what it means. If the Bible means whatever God whispers
into our ear when we are reading the scriptures then the meaning becomes individualized and
subjective. The person reading becomes the arbiter of God's truth they decide what it means.
And if you get four or five of them together the readers come up with different views on "what
the Bible means to me." The Apostolic Church in Acts and in the Post-apostolic era did not
believe in private interpretation. God revealed himself through the Church. This takes the "me"
out of Bible interpretation. It puzzles me how fundamentalists can reject what the Church
believed from apostolic times and throw that out and demand we accept beliefs not presented
in early Creeds or doctrinal statements. It is a real head scratcher. The early Church believed in
sacramental theology and in the authority of the Bishops. This is settled history and well
documented. Yet...some would argue with historic truth to make their sect look more viable.
We each may be entitled to our own opinion. But surely we are not entitled our own truth when
it is held in opposition to what is settled historic truth.
1
Kato Cedric
Kato Cedric
9 months ago
@Vanessa ...Did I say that I wasn't a sinner? I'm sorry if I was understood that way. I'm merely
pointing out we should uphold an identity that holds onto our character in Jesus. We sin, but we
don't have to approach God ashamed of ourselves or pitying ourselves - because God is just to
forgive those who confess to him. When I was a Catholic, I would always confess all my sins to
the priest, but I never felt I was reconciled with God because I never talked to Him personally.
We are not blameless for our sins, we're each responsible for our own. Confess it to God and
find a friend you can confess it to or maybe even confess it to people you don't know - but the
most important thing is to repent, so that you don't disappoint God again. You look away from
temptation, always choose to look towards God. :)
@mark ... You speak as if I'm a Christian and I don't hold firmly to the Word which is life, I do. I'm
not defending a theology here, I respect Catholics very much; I'm just expressing what I believe
our identity as Christians should be. After some have become Catholic, what are they going to
do? After salvation, are they just supposed to wait for heaven? We have a role on earth, to make
disciples, and to share the Good News - the church should not be passive about this mission (you
and me, that's the church.. we're the body of Christ). A lot of Christians go to church every week
because they want to be saved, they want to be good, but what really counts is what you do
outside the church. Inside the church, you're considered only with your own salvation, but Jesus
already assured you of this, believe in Him, you are His lamb who hears Him (and only His lamb
hear Him).
"If we confess our sins..." So the question is are we saved because we chose to confess or God
chose to forgive? I guess that would be the wrong question, as forgiveness is not a choice for
God, He's already given it. The choice in our hands is if we accept to replace the sins we've
committed with His grace of forgiveness. The root of this grace is Jesus; if you don't have Jesus in
your life, are you subject to His unconditional forgiveness? I believe Jesus is the only way, not a
thousand year old church (which I respect), but only Jesus is my role model (its the highest
standard). I believe in the authority of the church, but I believe the church is not limited to
positions of papacy or clergy or stuff like that, because I believe the church is the whole body of
Christ.
As children of God, we have authority over this earth (we are kings that are against evil, the royal
family of the kingdom of God - and our role is to bring heaven on earth), intimacy with God all
the time (we are the priests, we need no other mediator than Jesus) (and we have a personal
relationship with God, because what Jesus died to restore was man's relationship with God
which was broken when Adam gave away to sin), access to God (we are the prophets, and our
message is to preach the kingdom of God), and influence (because prayer changes everything,
and God listens to His children ;)
God bless :)) hehe

Kato Cedric
Kato Cedric
9 months ago
Well, not on a personal level, but I did. Only as if He was a king, and I was a servant. I'm sorry I
have nothing against Catholics (I may have phrased some words impolitely)
I didn't lose my faith. It swayed, it happens. And where God is leading my life right now it's only
growing stronger.
What's the point of your comment, are you trying to ridicule me? Well, it's okay XD
Go to wherever church but always be with Jesus in wherever you go. :) Stay where you grow,
move into where your relationship with God leads you.
Well, I just want to share.. It's something I learned reading 1Timothy.. How do we know which
are false teachings? If it divides the church. As we argue, let's be careful we don't judge each
other, we all are unknowing. Let's not let pride creep into our hearts which tempts us to speak as
if we're higher than the other person.
We follow the same teachings, we should love one another. You guys are good at explaining stuff,
I hope you don't just comment on Christian videos - step of out of the safe zone because there
are so many out there who don't know Jesus yet. You all are empowered with the knowledge to
impart into others the most life changing message they can hear. You don't have to be afraid if
you have love :)
God bless :))

prairie mark
prairie mark
Thanks for the kind response. But what I was looking for was either an acceptance or a rejection
of John's statements on the conditional nature of God's forgiveness. If we walk in the light the
blood of Jesus Christ purifies us from all sin. If we confess our sins.....the man who does the will
of God will live forever (what is the implication about the man who doesn't? If the gospel you
heard at the beginning remains in you then you remain in the Son...(what is the implication of
you do not continue in the faith.) You seem to make something unconditional that God has
clearly said was conditional. Do you believe these conditional statements that the apostle made
or do you reject them as the theology you cling to requires you to do. You have a choice! It
cannot be an unconditional relationship with God when John, Paul, Peter and Jude all say it is
conditional. "Build yourselves up in the Most Holy Faith and keep yourselves in God's love."
What happens if you do not keep yourself in the Love of God?
Kato Cedric
Kato Cedric
9 months ago
Well, I'm thinking about it. And I guess your point is: For us to be met, we clearly have to fulfill
certain conditions..
I don't believe Jesus died to purify us from all sins. The commandments given around the time of
Moses was for this purpose, to purify us so we can come near the presence of God. The problem
with this is it can never be permanent... I've thought about this before, I asked God in my heart..
He could've wiped our sins away with a snap of a finger, and I guess that's what He did during
the flood. But we see after the flood, humans will keep on sinning. My point is this, Jesus isn't a
ritual, He IS the way, a permanent one. By that, I mean, humanity can't be saved, and I don't
know what verse but I believe the Bible says kill yourself, live in Christ. And I believe that's
because Christ is literally the only way, so as you live in Christ you are a new creation. (Or maybe
I'm getting something wrong. Point it out for me please)
Wait, I found a verse :D
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The
life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for
me.
Perhaps we have a misunderstanding about what the Will of God is.. To confess our sins? Isn't
that the will of man. The will of God is Jesus Christ, and He asked us to love God and others.
Confessing our sins is an act of love for oneself, some would say loveing oneself is the pre-
requisite to loving others, but is it the will of God?
Concerning salvation, if you're going to keep thinking there's a list of things you have to keep
doing, I have some verses too:
Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through
the law, Christ died for nothing!
Galatians 3:2-3 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the
works of the law, or by believing what you heard? [3] Are you so foolish? After beginning by
means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?
^^^We can't finish by means of the flesh, the flesh is what we're asked to forsake and die from.
Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed
is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
^^îf you have bondage with one law, you are bound by the whole law.. Jesus is not the
replacement of the law, He is the fulfillment of it. (All law in the Old Testament points to love,
which in Jesus is made perfect) + (Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law
by becoming a curse for us...)
Galatians 3:11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the
righteous will live by faith.”
^^Î just love this verse <3

Galatians 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until
the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and
entrusted to a mediator.
^^^Salvation was a promise extended to even us who are Gentiles ;) if we could achieve it
through law, then what was the point of God making a promise at all? Laws were a guardian until
Christ came, now that Christ has come, and He is in us, "we are no longer under a guardian"
Galatians 4:2-5 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. [3]
So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces[a] of
the world. [4] But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born
under the law, [5] to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.
^^^We are heirs of God. But we were once "underage" before the Christ, and so we were subject
with the forces of the world. But Christ was born of a woman "under the law", so that those who
are also born under the law (us) may be redeemed, from ADOPTION to SONSHIP! And praise
God for that!! :o
Galatians 4:9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are
turning back to those weak and miserable forces[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all
over again?
^^Ît was excusable (probably, well God knows) during the time before Christ, but now that we
all know Christ or rather He knows us, why do we want to enslave ourselves again? Do we think
by enslaving ourselves we are also enslaving ourselves to Christ? Those are two different things.
For Christ died for you, so that you can live for Him, and to live for Him is to live for others
***And if anyone hasn't read Galatians 4 about Hagar and Sarah, it's a nice story... makes you
humble yourself before God's almighty love
Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let
yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
^^^You might think it's not a burden. But imagine yourself cooking in the kitchen in the
meantime your wife had already set up dinner; fishing for the family but when you get home you
discover a guest arrived with a gift of food enough for the whole fam
PART 1 HAHA
Kato Cedric
Kato Cedric
9 months ago
PART 2 (sorry I write long >.<)
Galatians 5:3-6 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated
to obey the whole law. [4] You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from
Christ; you have fallen away from grace. [5] For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the
righteousness for which we hope. [6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision
has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
^^Âs I type I'm pondering, what does Christ want us to do? ~ What's the will of Christ? For us to
fellowship? Unity? Remembering him? Going to mass every Sunday? Make disciples? Proclaim
the kingdom of God? Discern by yourself if by following the church, you follow the teachings of
Jesus Christ. Because all these things are good, but some teachings will limit you from your
identity in Jesus.. Each person who has accepted Jesus can discern from themselves, for all
discernment comes from the same Spirit.
Galatians 5: 13-14 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your
freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. [14] For the entire law
is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
^^Ît's always about loving others. Selflessness is the character of Jesus.
Galatians 5:15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each
other.
^^^Yeah XD So heavenly Father, please bless us with your love not to hate one another as we
come across people of varying faiths. Grant us the composure, competence, and faith in You that
we need to continue growing in patience and in Your truth. I declare love and patience to all
others who frustrate themselves because others don't understand them, grant clarity in their
hearts, Lord. And thank you for my brother in Christ who is not mean to me. In Jesus name!
Galatians 5:16-23 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [17]
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. [18] But if you
are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[19] The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [20] idolatry
and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [21]
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like
this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[23] gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
^just added the whole text about the fruits for the sake of that one person not part of this
conversation who is going to read this XD
^^^Note how it correlates "loving others" and "fruits". Fruits, meaning blossoming from your
growth in the Spirit.. Confessing sins - its fruit is peace, not salvation - you only have to be saved
ONCE. Why is it necessary? Because keeping your sins in the darkness will eat you up, you have
to expose it to the light of God for you to be healed from it. If it eats you up, it hinders you from
doing your role as a Christian (to love).
Galatians 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
^^Âbba Father, guide us in your light not to be conceited, provoking or envying in Jesus
name! :D
Galatians 6:12-13 Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel
you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of
Christ. [13] Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be
circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
^^^Do you abide by your religious traditions so that you can have peace that you're saved by
Jesus? Hopefully not, and I hope everyone in church, me included, would give light to those who
are lost. Because it not what we do, it what He did. If you rely on religious traditions, what
happens when a day passes by without them? Darkness creeps in, your faith becomes obscured.
But if you believe in Jesus Christ, you will not be blinded - for when we were blind (before we
knew Jesus) we saw him, what more now that we have a personal relationship with Jesus, what
can the world obscure us with? We do not see to believe ("see" is an affirmation in the world/we
do not see actions done to believe) for we believe to see ("believe" is to see Jesus) [I quoted this
from our beloved Pastor Manny Noel Galatians: "To believe is to see"]
Galatians 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the
world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
^^^Boast = the only thing we have to hold onto our hearts

From your point of view, since we have to do certain things (conditions), it implies we aren't free.
Our misunderstanding must lie on the meaning of what freedom is (or perhaps not). True
freedom is to act according to the will of God. Because there are only to wills in the world - the
will of man and of God. True freedom sets you apart from others who are slaves to the human
condition, the will of man, sin. And thus it is because if this freedom, that we keep ourselves in
faith, that we confess our sins, etc. Realize the commandments of Jesus are not a pre-requisite,
but an aftermath, because by ourselves we would not know how to live in Christ, for the only
way we do know how to live is by the nature of man. You don't have to worry if He'll reject you if
you lack something, He loves you anyways - that's agape. And if God loved us even before we
were sinners (which is why He gave His only Son for us), what more now that we've been
redeemed through the blood of Christ, what more now that he loves us! :D (Romans 5:10,
paraphrase)
If you aren't keeping yourself in God's love, are you saved? Well, if you aren't, you probably
haven't forsaken your old self - because if it's not your Spirit that is fed, then it's your body, not
the Spirit, which will grow.. I'm not really one to know who's saved. But I'm at peace that I'm
going to, and you're going to.. Too many are overconcerned with the truth of who's going to be
saved but the only truth you need to dwell on is Jesus Christ... You dont need to hold onto any
other truth other than this for He is all you need to fulfill his work - to love and to proclaim God's
kingdom
If you don't confess your sins, are you saved? As I;ve mentioned earlier, it's not a matter of
whether you're save or not, it's a matter of what identity you hold onto, because if you hold into
the identity of Jesus Christ who is in you then you don't have to be ashamed for your sins
because you don;t live to glorify yourself anymore but to glorify God. Sin is the mark of man and
God is blameless for it. Sins deceive you for who you really are so just let go of your sins. The
truth is we're children of God who makes mistakes because we;re not perfect - only Jesus is and
we acknowledge that, so confessing is an act of us telling Jesus we're letting go of who we've
become, we're not proud of it, we want to come back to you. So again, I don't know who's saved
and not. And I know how much it matters, which is why we should pray for each other that
everyone won't be ashamed to God because they are confident in who they are in Jesus, just
keep praying :)
I hope you understand that this isn't theology for me, it's faith. I know as much as God blesses
me with. And I don't reject any teachings you've said but we've got a misunderstanding on
whether these conditions are pre-conditions or post-conditions
Let whoever does not see, whether it be me or anyone else, see in Jesus name!
*My Bible is NIV btw :)
Peace and love :D be free to reply anyone eeeelse :)

prairie mark
prairie mark
Kato ...that was a long response. It covered a lot of territory.
Some statements you made that I noticed: " Each person who has accepted Jesus can discern
from themselves, for all discernment comes from the same Spirit."
My response is: We might all have the same Spirit, but how does he lead us? Does he do it
individually by whispering in our ears when we pray or read the Bible? Or does he give us
leaders to guide us? Is each of us in a "personal relationship with Christ" independent of the
the church? For example why did Paul the Apostle tell Timothy the Bishop to "Study to show
himself a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth? This
verse was not directed to the individual parishioners but to the Bishop who was responsible for
teaching and choosing local elders in the Churches under him. The local elders were in turn to
teach the parishioners. This is the system set up by God. But is it a system where the Spirit
whispers truth and discernment individually to each parishioners independent of the Church?
Paul says no. The early Church fathers said no. The Church says no. Paul said the Church is the
Pillar and Foundation of truth. ( I Tim 3:15)
Kato says to me:

From your point of view, since we have to do certain things (conditions), it implies we aren't free.
My response: It is not my point of view that counts, it is not your point of view that counts.
What does God think?
Remember the discussion by Apostle John? Isn't he speaking for God? It was not my point of
view I was presenting. John sai....."If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins and to purify us from all sin." Your comments were "I don't believe Jesus died to purify us
from all sins." " He could've wiped our sins away with a snap of a finger," " My point is this,
Jesus isn't a ritual, He IS the way, a permanent one."
My response to your comments? If Jesus didn't die for to purify us from all sin, what or who can
purify us? Secondly could God have really "snapped his finger and purified us from all sin?"
Was he restrained somehow by his justice and by the terrible nature of our rebellion against
him? Can he dismiss terrible sin "with the snap of his finger?" Didn't Christ have to pay the
price? And didn't he have to be human to do that...thus the necessity of the incarnation
(complete with the virgin Mary, his sinless nature and so forth)?
You say "Jesus isn't a ritual"
If we look at the story of Naaman in I Kings 5 Naaman was instructed by the Prophet Elisha to dip
in the river Jordan. He was dissappointed and angry. Why couldn't the prophet just snap his
finger and heal him?
Sacraments are not a "work" to earn God's salvation. They are a means to receive God's grace.
They are not merely a ritual. If we reject God's instruction because like Naaman we think God
had a bad idea, what is God supposed to do? Paul speaks of being baptized into Christ. John
says we are born again by the Water and the Spirit. Peter speaks of the water baptism that now
saves you. All of the early Church Fathers believed water baptism was regenerative. Why should
we reject it?
Christ gave the disciples the authority to forgive sins or to withhold forgiveness. John says if we
confess our sins he will forgive our sins (and do it in a just way). It sure sounds conditional to
me. John also says. When he says "IF" we walk in the light the Blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us
from all sin, isn't that conditional? "Walking" is not just a onetime event. It is a continuing
effort. And yet....our "purification" depends on it.
When John says: " Unless you eat the body of the Son of Man and drink his Blood you have no
life in you," surely that implies we must do something. "Unless" implies conditions.
So it is not a mater if we believe in the conditions. They are there. They are repeated
throughout the Bible. The question is if both our behaviors and our theology acknowledge it.
I was a fundamentalist for 56 years. I was fully immersed in their traditions and I struggled to
please God as I understood him at that time. But I have found that history, the Bible, and the
logical consistency of the Catholic faith make it a solution to all contradictions I found in
fundamentalism.
AmyNirvana87 Irish
AmyNirvana87 Irish
9 months ago
so the question then is what is the true correct fate, Christianity born again or Catholicism
Christianity? What about the traditions. surely Jesus isn't interested in traditions. Jesus also
said I will keep you ful, you will never be thirsty so how can that be related to drinking wine and
eating bread which was tradition before Jesus was put on the cross and was that not an example
for how Jesus wanted his apostles to be such as accept the body on the cross = drinking of fine
which Jesus called blood and -breaking bread = symbol of his body or accepting his body spirit
within you because Jesus said as he did it 'do this in remembrance of me' and he never said
'whenever you drink wine you are drinking my blood and whenever you eat bread you are eating
my flesh' even though he said 'drink my blood and eat my flesh' but when you have the holy
spirit within you and focus on Jesus, you already have drunk his blood and eaten his flesh, his
body and blood. God never said in the new testament to sacrifice animals to him such as he
give out that 'they burn incense to Gods and make blood sacrifices'. Jesus was the lamb so
blood sacrifice is not necessary now. Blood sacrifice and eating flesh and drinking blood is a
form of vampirism and Satanism and is not requested by Jesus. This does sound more like a
metaphor because he mentions requirements for eternal life in another chapter but this must
mean, unless a person has Jesus, they will not have eternal life and this is represented as flesh,
body and blood and as spirit.
AmyNirvana87 Irish
AmyNirvana87 Irish
9 months ago
yes at the last supper 'do it in remembrance of me'. that's like before I die I want you to wear
bright colors when I pass away at mu funeral but it is to do it in remembrance of me. Why did he
use bread a wine? Why do you pray to other saints and have statues of them? why do you bow
down to Mary and see her as perfect? Why do you believe her to be a queen and she in Pagan
myth represents the female Goddess, earth Goddess. Why do you pray for people who are
already dead? why do you believe that only special people can be saints or rise from the dead?
Why do you not believe that people who have Jesus are Saints and breathern? Why do you feel
that the rosary is necessary and it is similar to some other type of religion. I see none in the
bible king James anyway. Admit that Catholics use also tradition as well as following words from
the bible. Do you not think it is possible to become distracted by focusing on anything other
than God. Yes it is nice to remember apostles but to pray for them, have statues of them and
admire or honor them as a type of idol is a different story but they are examples am sure they
don't want to be treated in such a way as they believe that the only perfect one is Jesus. What
will it benefit you to drink wine and eat bread or meat honestly? Is not better to study history,
the gospel and communicate with and God and Jesus spiritually as well as trying to understand
him and God.
AmyNirvana87 Irish
AmyNirvana87 Irish
9 months ago
make anyone queen or princess and you have idolatry anyway such as with celebs. yes they
would distract me from God Jesus if I prayed them on a regular basis for things or had those
statues in my house. Thought Jesus only wants us to focus on him. hmmm funny that. the bride
being christ yes and husband being christ. but marriage where wife must submit fully to husband
but God before him and be her husbands help made and servant.
adrian quinonez
adrian quinonez
8 months ago
Vanessa's Daily Journal bowing down to a statue that's idolatry for we are only to pray to Christ
he himself said I am the way the truth and the life and nobody comes to the father except
through me now he's no one else can hear our prayers about God
adrian quinonez
adrian quinonez
8 months ago
Vanessa's Daily Journal the lord himself is are mediator read scripture again Christ said nobody
comes to the father except through me. Meaning nobody els can hear our prayers or answer
them but only Christ alone can. A saint isn't god they were once sinners just like u and me they
don't have the power to save or answer prayers only the lord can do that
2012endofanerror
2012endofanerror
8 months ago
Vincent Krische how cool is this?
MrValdac
MrValdac
7 months ago
I shall never believe in religion. Any being, who would condemn people eternally for not
groveling at his feet, is malicious and vile. If this so called god had instead given people a choice
as to who they want to believe in, I would be fine with religion.
And yes, I am fully aware that not all religious people are like that. But the matter of fact is,
MANY of them are. I do not need god to tell me what is right and what is wrong. He has never
given me reason to believe he exist. And if he is unwilling to reveal himself to everyone that he
is, in fact, a real entity, than I can only conclude that he doesn't because HE WANTS us to choose
for ourselves.
The simple truth is, Christianity and it's variants claim to be all about love. Yet they preach
nothing but hate. The bible says that black people should feel SHAME for being born black. That
they should be GRATEFUL for being treated like property. It demanded that women be treated
the same way.
1. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent." -
Timothy 2:12
2. "Do not allow a sorceress to live." - Exodus 22:18
3. "Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and
dashes them against the rocks." - Psalm 137
4. "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction
all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and
sheep, camel and donkey.' " - Samuel 15:3
5. “In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed
with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their
own persons the due penalty for their error.” Romans 1:27
6. “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” - Ephesians 5:22
7. “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle
but also to the cruel.” - Peter 2:18
8. "You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of
Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the
sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." -
Horsea 13:4
This is not a matter of interpretation. The bible VERY CLEARLY praises rape, genocide, slavery and
discrimination. It is little more than fear mongering. It baffles me how ignorant some people can
be. When you praise being Christian, when you choose to believe in this faith. THIS IS WHAT YOU
ARE WORSHIPING. In fact, the bible states that if you have ANY problems with the passages that
I just posted... you shall burn in hell. You do not get to pick and choose what parts you want to
believe in. In the bible, god says it's either ALL his way, or no way.
karen moore
karen moore
7 months ago
I guess you don't as much about God than you think. God has given everyone the right to
choose which god / God we choose to believe in. God doesn't have to do anything for us. He's
the One who is God, not you, not me. He isn't looking for someone demanding Him to show or
prove Himself. He has done that already by creating the earth, you, me and all that is in the
world. He put faith in our hearts, enough to believe in Him. Then He stood back and let us be
who we choose to be. You choose to say you don't believe in Him because you don't want Him
having any authority or control in your life. And He is good with that, although He loves you and
would prefer you were to come to him and acknowledge that He IS GOD and you want to know
Him. But, do not expect Him to allow you into His house when you die, unless you do what HE
expects of all of us to do to come into His home. God is God, He will NOT and CANNOT tolerate
SIN and THAT is why we are expected to repent and be cleansed of the sin on us. You are the
one that makes the decision as to where you are going to spend your eternity, not Him. But like
it or not He IS the God of this world and deep in your heart you know that. And one day, when
you die you WILL stand before HIM and be accountable for what you have done on this earth.
Whining about it, throwing a tantrum and saying there is no God isn't going to change the fact
that He IS real and what He wants from us WILL be done or we spend eternity is a very horrible
pit of fiery hell.
I'm not going to comment on the verses you posted. I'm not going to try to justify anything God
did. Get saved, read the bible and learn why God said and did what He did. You can sit there
and judge God all you want, it's not going to change anything. He is God and He is a GOOD God.
He loves us all but there are consequences if we don't obey Him. Hence some of the posts you
posted above. And he's not punishing a man for some little thing, if that were the case one man
would be punished. He's punishing a lot of sin.You want answers, ask Him.
BTW, Pslam 137 says nothing about what you posted. Might look that one over again. And the
bible doesn't PRAISE rape, genocide, slavery or discrimination. Ever hear of an eye for an eye?
(And that may not even be why God allowed it, that's just me saying sometimes some people
refuse to listen and do what they want and don't care who they hurt) Just sayin'. Some people
don't learn anything by being told they did wrong. Sometimes, they have to have something
done to them to learn. Maybe, I'm not God but, maybe, that is why those things happened.
Again, ask God. If He doesn't respond, remember that He doesn't hear the prayer/questions of a
sinner so you'd have to repent and ask Him to forgive you of your sins first. Not my rule, His. :)
gina redrovan
gina redrovan
7 months ago
Just read your bible, pray to Jesus, you don't need a priest, especially one who doesn't
understand the bible nor the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross.
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MrValdac
MrValdac
7 months ago
But that logic is broken. Saying that god doesn't demand anything from you, but punishes you
for doing what you want is such a massive contradiction. And I am not trying to be rude, just
pointing out that it is basically what I always hear and why it makes no sense to me.
By that logic, it would be like me walking into a guy's home and saying "You do not have to do
what I say. Btw, if you don't, im going to rape, torture, and kill your wife."
And, while my orginal post probably made it sound like it, I actually have no problem with
people of faith. It just comes down to preference. Some people put their "faith" in what they can
prove. Others put it into religion. I am fine with that much. But what I am not okay with, is
people (and yes, only the "book" religions do this) demanding that I worship their god. If you
truly believe in the bible, then you have to do what it says.
Which means, the next time you see a woman who has slept with more than her husband, you
must kill her via stoning, and leave her corpse on her father's doorstep. If you do not, well... I
shall be seeing you in hell.
prairie mark
prairie mark
Gina: If your instruction to each of us is to "just read the scriptures, you don't need a
clergyman," then I have a question for you. Why did Paul the Apostle tell bishops like Timothy
or Titus to appoint local elders in the Churches they supervised? Paul told them to appoint
them in the local churches to rule and to teach . If each Christian is supposed to read and
understand the scriptures individually, then why does God's word lay down a hierachy in the
Church? Why does Paul say the Church (not the Bible) is the Pillar and Foundation of truth?
Why did the early Christians in Acts not settle their doctrinal questions by reading the scriptures
they had and praying? Why did they send a delegation to Jerusalem to seek direction from the
Apostles and Elders on how to bring Gentiles into the Church? And.. the Council decided to
accept Peter's conclusions and wrote the doctrinal conclusions up in a letter and sent it out to
the local Churches. It was binding on both the local pastors and on the local parishioners. What
you are proposing goes directly against the practice of the Early Church and the teaching of the
Apostles. The early church knew nothing of private interpretation of the scriptures nor of self-
governing churches.
1
karen moore
karen moore
7 months ago
God is God. He has His ways and expects His people to live that way. I didn't say He doesn't
"demand" anything. You just don't want to have to live the way God wants so you find all kinds
of ways to "justify" why you refuse to acknowledge Him. He's not stopping you from doing what
you want. God isn't asking His people to have boring lives. He just doesn't want us going around
lying, stealing, killing, being drunk and disorderly, abusing one another and so on. (Think about
the depth of what each of those things I mentioned mean. Murder/killing someone because
someone is mad at someone, that is murder. That's just one example of murder.) There is
nothing wrong with God not wanting us to do that to one another. If that is demanding too
much to you that's your decision. But, as I said, God, in the end, will make the decision on what
happens with our spirit. Because we don't live forever in this flesh. It's our spirit that lives
eternally and He is the One who made us.
As I said before. You have the right to make your own decisions and God gave you the right to
choose. He is very patient but when He warns people not to do something and they do it, there
are consequences. Any adult knows that is true. Same with their children. If a father tells his
son not to play with matches and the son does and the house burns down, there are
consequences to pay. If a king murders his people or tries to slaughter God's people, he may not
pay that day but he will pay for what he did. And if that kings people are hateful and follow the
king blindly believing those people needed to die, they are also responsible. There are reason
WE can not understand or truly even know why God had certain cities wiped out. But God is a
Loving, Caring and a Just and Righteous God. So if He had something done there was GOOD
reason.
The bible tells us that God said HE is the one who puts presidents and kings and queens and
people in power, in power. He said it's for good and not evil. Well, if we, for example, have a
fallen government and a corrupt president, please do not start in on President Trump, this isn't
about him, and the people of this country are letting this corrupt president do whatever he
wants and they aren't trying to stop the bad things happening, that president is there for a wake
up call to His, Gods people and other people willing to see what is truly happening. Most of the
time we people will let everything that can go wrong go wrong before we finally wake up and say
okay that's enough. It's hard to explain things in writing because there are so many words left
out to shorten what is trying to be said. Bottom line, I hope that one day you will come to know
God because the day you do is going to be a glorious day for you. You will feel the sin lifted off,
physically, and you will probably cry and I know you will be smiling. It's an amazing gift so many
choose to ignore.
Ephesian289
Ephesian289
5 months ago
Now I see why you are the way you are...you read too many books! You only needs one book,
The Bible, the inspired Word of God and one teacher, The Holy Spirit. You called yourself a
former fundamentalist, not a Christian, which means a follower of Jesus Christ. You are still
searching......another religion (Roman Catholicism) will not do it for you. You speak of your
conversion from man-made fundamentalism to Historic Christianity....how about a conversion of
the heart, where God removes your sinful heart of stone and circumcises your heart and makes
it a fleshly heart, where you come to know the Love of the Father through His son, Jesus Christ.
You went from one religion to another...you need a relationship with Jesus Christ.
prairie mark
prairie mark
5 months ago
Ephesians 289: You talk a lot about my spiritutal life. You say I don't have a relationship with
Christ. You say I have a sinful, stone, uncircumcised heart and so forth. How do you know that?
Do you not think it is wrong to claim knowledge you do not have about me? My relationshiop
with Christ extended back into my Protestant days. I am thankful I learned about the Lord Jesus
in church. I memorized a lot of scripture. I learned about Catholic Doctrines like the Trinity and
original sin. Protestantism has not rejected all of the truth of Historic Christianity. One summer
I memorized the book of James over a period of months. But as you said the religion of
Fundamentalism does not satisfy the needs of the soul. Many of the people I knew who were
fundamentalist did not have a soft heart. They were mean. They were afraid of truth. Some of
them, like you told me I should not read anything except the Bible. Most denied historical truth.
They said the early Church did not believe in baptismal regeneration and the real presence of
Christ at the Eucharist. They simply denied historical truth to preserve their tradition...and they
demanded I do it too. But that is such a crazy and self-defeating position that no one can take it
seriously. Nor can they take seriously those who promote that. I remember thinking to my self
that a God who is truth would not demand that I be intellectually dishonest about the Bible, or
the age of the earth or anything else.
God loves intellectual honesty. The fundamentalists I was associated with did not promote
intellectual honesty. Their use of proof texting in scripture is dishonest. The proof texts you use
Ephesian289 are used in dishonest ways although I am not sure you undertand it. The
fundamentalist church I was raised in did not take baptism seriously. It was optional. Just a
symbol and not required. I wondered why Jesus commanded baptism and my church said it was
optional. I wondered why John said "if" you confess your sins God will forgive you. But my
Church said all my future sins were forgiven at conversion and confession was un-necessary. My
church told me that if I "asked Jesus into my heart" that I was saved for ever and ever. I could
never be lost. But Paul when presents the basic creed of Christianity in I Cor 15, he says that we
can believe the Gospel, proclaim our faith and "take our stand" on the Divinity of Christ, his
death and burial and resurrection for our sins and still be lost if we do not hang onto it. And all
that faith and that taking a stand would be lost. It would be empty and vain he says. So I had a
choice here. Should I believe in Historic Christianity that taught what the Apostles taught? You
criticize me for 'searching" but God says if you search you will find. If you knock the door will be
opened onto you you.
I thank God he lead me to historic Christianity. The faith of the Apostles. I thank God my sins can
be forgiven, that I can receive Jesus in the sacraments, and through his Word. I am not a
Catholic because it is easy or because it is popular, but because it is true. If I had an "itching
ear" for an easy theology it would be one where I have an emotional experience and pray a
"sinners prayer" and am given not just a "clean slate" but a "free ticket." But that is not how to
have a relationship with Christ.
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leona olson
leona olson
5 months ago
Be A Saint
Be A Saint
1 month ago
Awesome stuff Vincent! here is my response: Finally got around to creating a response to this. I
know it is one of many, but I hope you consider it. NO to sin, pride, relativism, religiosity; YES to
Jesus, His commands and His Religion! https://youtu.be/QCGqej-Sfpo
Natalia Marcondes
Natalia Marcondes
1 month ago
Vincent Krische wow thats incredible thank u for sharing that your expression of humility is an
imitation of the sacred heart of Jesus if only more people were like you in social media.
1
David Matias
David Matias
1 month ago
Kadie Johnson me too
1
Greg Aitchison
Greg Aitchison
1 week ago
Praise God. Thanks for sharing, Vincent! God bless you.
Agnes Barber
Agnes Barber
1 day ago
Thanks you!
AmericanPatriot2011
AmericanPatriot2011
1 day ago
Bishop Barron is an extremely wise man.
Irish Midget
Irish Midget
3 years ago
Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by GRACE you have been saved through faith, and that NOT of yourselves;
IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT WORKS, lest anyone should boast.
Good works do not get you into heaven, but the saving grace of Jesus Christ alone. But, when
you accept Jesus into your heart as your Lord and Savior, His Spirit gives you the hunger and
desire to do good works in His Name. We don't need the traditions and sacraments to "work our
way" into heaven, because Jesus Christ has already paid the price in full!! All you need to do is
accept Him into your life as your Lord and Savior, and if you live it out, He will have a place for
you in Heaven. Also, If you listen closely the "young man" does not criticize all of religion, but
specifically the corruption of the church and of religion, for example, when he describes all eh
wars it has started. Or y we build these expensive, massive, beautiful and extravagant buildings
to worship in, but at the same time leave millions homeless. I do not mean to insult or offend
anyone, and if I do I sincerely apologize. God Bless you all.
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Joe Rico
Joe Rico
10 months ago
so it's simple to be a christian. just believe in God without any good deeds & you go to heaven.
it's heteritical teaching. it's lutheran teaching. you must read the whole context in the bible. faith
without good works is nothing
4
Anna Esperanza
Anna Esperanza
8 months ago
i know i am very late to watch this, but thank you so much. i fully agree with what you are
saying. in galatians it is stated that christ came and overcame the law. and that one is no longer
saved by works but by christ's grace alone.
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prairie mark
prairie mark
6 months ago
Bornagain: 'Sacraments" are God's chosen way of giving us his grace. Sacraments are not
"works" to earn salvation. Peter said in Acts 2 that we receive forgiveness of sins and the Holy
Spirit in baptism. In his first epistle he says that the waters of Noah flood symbolize baptism
"that now saves you." How does baptism get it's power to save? Through the resurrection of
Christ Peter says.
4
Frankie Dias
Frankie Dias
5 months ago
AMEN TO THAT
Tim Newman
Tim Newman
5 months ago
Good works prove it is genuine, however they have nothing to do with salvation there are
multiple examples of this through all of scripture
2
Ephesian289
Ephesian289
5 months ago
If there is some WORK you need to do to be justified before a Holy God, than Jesus died in vain.
Jesus said "It is finished".... Believe on His finished work on the cross, His shed blood cleanses
from sin, He will make you free to live a life of good works to Glorify God.....that is the simple
Gospel.
2
prairie mark
prairie mark
Ephesians289: We don't necessarily want a simplified version of the Gospel, we want the full
and true historic Christianity passed from the Apostles to the early Church. "Believing" is more
than mental assent to a list of historic facts about Christ. It requires and act of the will to receive
Christ. Some call this receiving Christ through the sacraments as a "work" Peter taught in
Acts 2 that the folks he was preaching to would receive forgiveness of sins and the gift of the
Holy Spirit through baptism. Late in his career he repeated a similar view when he said that that
the waters of Noah's flood symbolizes water baptism "that now saves you." How where does
water baptism get its power to save us you ask? Peter baptism gets its power from the
resurrection of Christ from the dead. I Peter 3:21. John tells us that when we eat the body and
drink the blood of Christ in the Eucharist we are receiving eternal life. Likewise he says if we do
not eat of the Body of the Son of Man and drink his Blood we have no life in us. The Greek word
for eating implies continual gnawing, not one time consumption. So clearly receiving the Savior
in baptism and the Eucharist are requirements of "believing." Receiving Christ's grace is not
trying to "earn" forgiveness for our sins as some Protestants falsely claim. Similarly John in his
first epistle says. IF you walk in the light .....the blood of Jesus Christ his Son purifies us from all
sin. The implication is if we do not walk in the light our sins will not be forgiven. And he
continues "IF" you confess your sins.....God will forgive you sins. The clear meaning is we do not
confess the sins we commit as Christians our sins will not be forgiven. Conversion is a "clean"
slate but not a "free ticket" where we can expect to live as we want and be the lord of our own
life and expect to enter heaven regardless of how much of a sinful life we lead. Peter warns us
about necessity of human effort in our faith and Peter also warns us in the same passage about
the misuse of Paul teaching on grace. II Peter 3:14......so make every effort to be found spotless,
blameless and at peace with God.....Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave
him.....His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable
people distort, as they do to other scriptures to their own destruction. Note here that Peter
mentions of the "effort" needed to be found spotless , blameless and at peace with God." He
mentions in the same passage how it is very possible to misundertand Pauls writings about these
matters. And he says that people who use Pauls teaching to contradict Peters teaching also
distort other scriptures as well.
We have a benediction that we like as Catholics: Build yourselves up in THE MOST HOLY FAITH
and keep yourselves in the love of God. The apostles did not teach a "free ticket" theology.
None of this "once saved, always saved" theology was present in the early Church. It is a more
recent invention. It is an appealing theology, but not a Biblical or historic theology.
The Council of Trent harmonizes the necessity of grace and works: "If anyone says that man can
be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or by the
teaching of the Law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema" (Session 6;
can. 1).
The Council fathers continued by saying, "If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone,
meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification
and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own
will, let him be anathema" (Session 6: can. 9).
1
Ephesian289
Ephesian289
Prairie Mark: I do not have a mental assent of the Gospel. I was reared in the Roman Catholic
tradition, and the Lord reached out to me through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and
revealed Himself to me through the reading of His Word, the Holy Scriptures. That was 37 years
ago and studying His Word since then. No one can come to the Father but by Jesus....He calls us
unto Himself. No 'church' or 'tradition' brings one to a saving knowledge of the Lord. Read the
book of Roman's to understand the Grace of God, along with every other Word written in the
Holy Scriptures. I went through the sacraments as a child, those traditions did not change my
heart, they are only traditions of men. Mark 7:8 & Col 2:8. And there was no Roman Catholic
church in Jesus day, the first believers were all Jews and when Saul was converted on the Road to
Damascus and taught by Jesus Himself, his name was changed to Paul and he was sent to preach
the Gospel to the Gentiles. The Jew & Gentile believers began meeting in homes, breaking
bread, reading the Scriptures and living their lives in such a way as to please the Lord. They were
first called Christians in Antioch....NOT Catholics....that tradition began with Constantine. So you
can keep all your "non simplified traditions of men", I will stick with the pure, unadulterated
Word of God: 2Tim 3:16,17 " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may
be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 1John 2:27 states: "But the anointing
which ye have received of Him abides in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as
the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath
taught you, ye shall abide in Him." Because of my personal relationship with the Living God,
Father, Son and Holy Spirit I am free to worship with any group of people or any established
church that teaches the Word of God and the Virgin birth, death, burial, resurrection and 2nd
coming of Jesus Christ. There was nothing I could do to be justified before a Holy God and there
is nothing I can do to retain that justification aside from what Jesus did when He shed His blood
on Calvary for the sins of mankind. "IT IS FINISHED" and He gave up the ghost. Praise the Lord
for His mercies are new every morning.... GREAT is His Faithfulness. I pray you come to know
the simple Gospel that Jesus preached. "For God so loved the world, that He gave, His only
begotten son, that whosoever believes on Him, should NOT perish but have everlasting life".
Remember, IF YOU can do anything to make yourself worthy of the Grace of God, than Jesus died
in vain.
4
prairie mark
prairie mark
Ephesians 289 says: I do not have a mental assent of the Gospel. My response: You mean you
do not in your mind agree with the set of facts about Jesus? You are saying you do not believe
that he was divine, that he died on the cross for our sins, was buried and rose again for our sins?
I don't think you mean that. I do believer you give mental accent to Christs divinity and
ressurection.
Mental assent is necessay but not sufficient for conversion to occur.

1
Leocomander
Leocomander
4 months ago
Why don’t you go and parade that garbage to your 43,000 schismatic denominations.
3
Ben Hilby
Ben Hilby
4 months ago
You ignore Jesus's teaching of Judgement day (Matthew 25:31-46):
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his
glorious throne, 32 and all the nations[o] will be assembled before him. And he will separate
them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the
sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come,
you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of
the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a
stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison
and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous[p] will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see
you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and
welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’
40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these
least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ 41 [q]Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from
me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry
and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me
no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
44 [r]Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger
or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say
to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will
go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Jesus makes no mention of faith when listing the reasons why the sheep will enjoy the eternal
glory of heaven, only works. I'm not denying it faith isn't essential, for no one can fulfill their
calling, be righteous, nor be saved without faith. But faith alone cannot save you, as stated
James 2:24. Biblically and traditionally, faith means trust. You must trust Christ and obey His
commandments. If you don't obey His commandments, then you don't trust Christ, thus you
don't have faith.
Lastly, if faith is all you need, why did Jesus teach the Beatitudes and other moral commands
(Mt. 5-8)? He also taught us to pick up our Crosses daily and die to self. If faith is all you need,
Jesus would not need to teach morality, for faith in Him alone would be sufficient. What a waste
of time reading and listening to His commandments. But Christ did call us to live a righteous life,
to do the Will of His Father so we can be a member of their holy family. So we, according to
Jesus's teachings, we must do more than a mental belief, but act on the graces given to us.
2
prairie mark
prairie mark
4 months ago
Ben: When I was a Fundamentalist I was taught that the Church was not part of the "kingdom
age." Therefore we were not part of the Kingdom of God and not subject to the beatitudes.
The Bible was divided up into periods of time with different rules for God's people in each one.
The O.T. was part of the kingdom and the period of time after the return of Christ was also
kingdom. The Church was an interruption of the kingdom. It is an interesting man-made system
promoted by Darby, Schofield, Moody and others. Darby claimed to have originated this system
of interpretation in the 1820s, partly by listening to the visions of the utterances of a paranoid
schizophrenic. The name dispensationalism is appropriate because it allows them to "dispense"
with any scripture they do are uncomfortable by saying it is in a different dispensation and God
has different rules for that age. Another "handy" use of dispensations is how they handle
Peter's teaching in Acts 2. Peter says that Christians receive forgiveness of sins and the Holy
Spirit at baptism. But dispensationalists say.....that was before Pentecost so that is not in the
"church age" and does not apply to us. They dispense with baptismal regeneration that way. It
really doesn't work very well because Peter said in Acts 2 that this teaching applied to their
Children and to all that would call upon the Lord in the future. And then late in his career he
repeated the same teaching many years later in I Peter. He said that the waters of Noahs flood
represented water baptism "that now saves you." How does baptism save us you might ask.
According to Peter, baptism gets its regenerative power from the resurrection of Christ from the
dead. Anyway the kind of dispensationalists that I grew up with did violence to scriptures. It is
really a non-biblical cult that rejects historic kinds of Biblical interpretation like post millenialism,
Historic Premillenialism and Amillenialism. We were also taught that the last chapters of Ezekiel
taught a return to Temple worship in the future where God works through the Jewish nation
again. Animal sacrifices will be given again "to make atonement for sin." The cult of
dispensationalism teaches not only that the Church is not part of the kingdom of God and the
beatitudes do not apply to us, but that in the future sacrifices will be offered in the temple for
sins. This contradicts any reasonable understanding of the Gospel that teaches that Christs
sacrifice was "once of all." It is really a dangerous cult that is a kind of Zionistic zealotry.
1
Joseph Underkoffler
Joseph Underkoffler
4 months ago
I am no wise man, nor am I all knowing, but I would say that your relationship with Jesus doesn't
REQUIRE good works, but rather good works should be a by product. And note I didn't just say
faith. It does certainly require faith, but it also requires love. A personal relationship. Jesus wants
to get to know you, and wants you to know him. And in loving Jesus, you know that helping
anyone is helping him.
You don't have to do good works to get to heaven, to Jesus. He has already payed the way. He
just wants you to accept the ticket. And since there are an infinite amount of tickets, loving Jesus
means you love everyone, because he created everything. Well, God created us, but with the 3
in 1 thing going on, its like Jesus made us as well. So why not get the rest of his creation on
board the train.
Anyways, I know that there are much better ways to put this, but until I become better with
my wording this will have to be good enough. Have a great day to anyone who has read this far,
and to anyone who stopped before getting this far, and to anyone at all honestly. Bye.
1
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
4 months ago
"We don't need the traditions to "work our way" into heaven."Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore,
brethren, stand fast and hold the TRADITIONS which you were taught, whether by word or our
epistle."Please send me the scripture about accepting Jesus into your life as your Lord and
Savior. The bible tells us a different story:Acts 2:38 "Repent and let every one of you be
BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of
the Holy Spirit."Ephesians 4:28 "Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor,
working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has
need."Acts 26:20: "...... that they should repent, turn to God, and DO WORKS BENEFITTING
REPENTANCE."There are many more. Read Matthew 25. The gift of salvation is a free gift from
God. The works of the sacraments draw you closer to God. But a true Christian's life will have
evidence of good works, because of the Holy Spirit moving within them. That is the true Catholic
teaching. I'll stick with the Church that handpicked the books of the New Testament and
preserved and interpreted them for 2000 years.
3
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
4 months ago
Matthew 25:44:"Then they also will answer Him saying "LORD, when did we see You hungry or
thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to You?"Then He will
answer them saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of
these, you did not do it to Me."And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life."I think I will not take your advice and listen to Jesus instead.
2
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
Did you ever stop to think that it was those sacraments that prepared your heart to be so
receptive to Jesus? I kind of had the same experience, but I am now back to the Catholic Church.
It is either Catholicism or nothing for me. By the way, the bible did not fall off a rainbow. The 27
books of the New Testament were handpicked by the Catholic Church and is named after the
sacrament of communion instituted during the last supper. The dominant language of the
Christian world during that time was Latin. There was no Latin word for covenant. The closest
word to translate covenant was testament, and that was something practiced every Sunday by
Christ's true church. Also, Jesus never mentioned bishops and deacons, but St. Paul does. The
Catholic Church was not invented by Constantine. The name was first mentioned by second
bishop of Antioch named Ignatius who was most likely trained under Peter.
4
prairie mark
prairie mark
4 months ago
Thomas: Thanks for your posts here. You are informed and present the material well. It is so
wonderful to find someone who is posting here who is not profoundly ignorant of Church
history.
1
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
4 months ago
Thank you, Prairie Mark. I was once turned on by "the Bible only" movement years ago and non-
denominational Christianity. One night I woke up and half asleep turned on the TV and thought
I was watching some Christian channel when, in fact, it was EWTN and Scott Hahn was on talking
about one of his books, which led me to the likes of Mike Acqualina, Steven Ray, Tim Staples and
Patrick Madrid, not to mention Fr Pacwa, and it's been history since then. I came back to the
Church and was confirmed in Spring of 2016. People have no idea what they are missing. All we
can do is pray for them to one day encounter the fullness of the faith. God Bless. Sorry for the
long reponse.
1
Arin Richardson
Arin Richardson
4 months ago
Amen at least some people know the truth
1
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
4 months ago
I meant to say Evangelical Christian channel. Catholics are Christians, of course.
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
Thomas: Thanks for the response! I came to Historic Christianity after a long struggle looking
for "Historic Christianity." My family background was Protestant fundamentalism but when I
read the the writings of the early Christian writers I could not find any creed or doctrinal
statement from the first thousand years of Christianity that look like what I was being taught.
Three of the Churches I attended over the years split over doctrinal and personal conflict issues.
And when the churches split each side of the debate had lists of Bible verses to support their
positions. Both sides would say their position was presenting the "unchanging and infallible
Word of God." Yet they could not see that they had made the "great switch." In their mind
their opinion on what the Bible taught had become what the Bible really taught. If you
questioned, you were opposing God. Inadvertently they claimed a kind of infallibility. There was
no appeal to historic positions of the Church. There was no appeal to how different scholars
believed. They quoted verses out of context that they needed no one to teach them. Their
opinion became God's truth and if you opposed it you opposed God and were a heretic. They
had a continuous crises of authority based on different private interpretations. A pivotal point in
my spiritual walk was when I told an elder that I believed the Nicean Creed had more authority
than the opinion of a group of three farmers sitting in a back room. They told me I should not
read Church history because it was confusing me. All we needed was the Bible as interpreted by
them I guess. None of them knew almost anything about Church history. Even the ninety year
history of the local church was not known to them. When I mentioned that "God's eternal
truth" (what they called the doctrinal statement) had been changed five times by vote of the
congregation in ninety years, they did not know what to say. I eventually resigned from the
Church board and began a serious search for "Historic Christianity." I found Historic Christianity
in what I thought was the strangest place, the Roman Catholic Church. Catholics believed in a
hierarchical structure and a sacramental theology like the Apostles taught! The early church
knew nothing of a water baptism or a Eucharist that was only symbolic. I was received into
Historic Christianity on Jan 3, 2012 when I was fifty-six years old. Thank God for his patience with
me. I abused Catholics on threads like this for years. So I guess is is appropriate I take a little
abuse too. But I forgive them. There is such a spiritual blindness and pride that is indoctrinated
into followers of North American Fundamentalism. Those that understand that their theology is
recently invented and man-made are rejected out of hand. They cannot conceive of themselves
being as wrong as they are. Sorry for the long response....
1
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
4 months ago
Prairie Mark, Thanks for your story. I watch The Journey Home as much as I can. I love all those
conversion stories. It is true that North American Evangelicalism can be very prideful and even
sometimes nasty, but we must pray for them. God Bless.
2
prairie mark
prairie mark
4 months ago
Journey Home was important in my conversion to Historic Christianity. In fact Marcus Grodi
went to the same Seminary (Gordon Conwell) as my Protestant pastor did but Marcus later came
home. I am encouraged at how many Evangelicals do come home to Catholicism. There are at
least four couples in our small Catholic Church who were evangelicals. And....they are some of
the most thoughtful persons in the Congregation.
1
William Hasty
William Hasty
1 month ago
Tell me " father" do you know what fulfillment means?
nameunselected
nameunselected
3 years ago
I am a lover of all things Christ. Raised Protestant now wondering, I guess what version of Jesus
is the absolute truth. I've heard arguments for both catholic and Protestant and quite frankly, I
don't know.
37
3 years ago
First of all, pray for direction. Then I would recommend you take a look at my book Catholicism.
30
Tae Ja
Tae Ja
3 years ago
I too am a lover of all things Christ and I was raised Catholic. My response would be
that...perhaps no "version" of Jesus is, in and of itself, an "absolute truth" but that there is
"absolute truth" to versions of Jesus's life and teachings in the same way that the four Gospels
(Matthew Mark Luke John) are each unique accounts of Jesus's life yet all hold absolute truth
regarding Jesus. Do Protestant/Evangelicals preach the divinity of Jesus Christ, the virgin birth,
His crucifixion and resurrection, and salvation by grace through His sacrifice?
I believe the Church (the Body of Christ in whole) lurches forward through prophetic voices that
are often times met with skepticism and reactionary defensiveness at first but bring the Church
into God's tighter embrace. Luther's vision and critique was a very needed one...and one cannot
forget the counter-reformation that came as a direct consequence of Luther's much admired
efforts.
With all due respect to Fr. Barron, it may be a little hasty to paint Evangelicalism as necessarily
tending towards privatized individualism. Having once attended a Protestant service, I was struck
by the level of community activity and life (communal meal, youth activities, music and small
groups) at the church.
I disagree with the "Why I hate Religion" video but just as we should not abstract Jesus, we
shouldn't abstract fellow Christians. After all, we are the Body of Christ.
3
Carmela കകപ
Carmela കകപ
3 years ago
+Tae Ja Thank-you, God bless you! =)
1
Chris C.
Chris C.
3 years ago
I would recommend reading the Church Fathers.
5
Matthew Phelps
Matthew Phelps
3 years ago
+Tae Ja I agree :) why would we want to reject Christ's blessed bride? The Church! He died so she
could be holy, so we could be part of her. That is true love and dedication.
1
Joe Hilty
Joe Hilty
3 years ago
Christianity isn't about what church or denomination you belong to but rather it is about having
a relationship with Christ.
5
Rachel Gohlman
Rachel Gohlman
2 years ago
+Tae Ja
Unfortunately, each Christian denomination teaches different and contradictory things so they
cannot all be correct with regards to what Jesus actually taught. The only stability and
consistency can be found in the ancient apostolic churches who have special interest in
preserving early Christian teaching intact. Teachings such as sacraments, a priesthood and the
true body and blood of Christ in communion were present in the apostolic churches but differ or
are even rejected by more modern branches.
7
SpiritualJones
SpiritualJones
2 years ago
+Joe Hilty Christianity is precisely about communion with God through Jesus Christ in His holy
Church. There is only One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, denominationalism is a mockery
of Christianity, it is a man-made attempt to fracture the Church of Jesus Christ, to remake God
and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the image of frail and prideful humanity. A true relationship
with Christ is found in communion with Him through His Bride, the Church. One Lord, one Faith,
One Baptism= One Church. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Our Lord is coming
again for His Bride. There is no division in Our Lord, so how can there exist division in His Bride?
2
RinaldoDegliAlbizzi
RinaldoDegliAlbizzi
2 years ago
+nameunselected I don't think the difference between Protestants and Catholics is around Jesus
himself. I think we agree on who Jesus was, because all (or most, at least) Protestant sects also
concur with the Calcedonian and Nicene creeds, which are the fundamental statements of our
faith. The problem is the interpretation on how this faith becomes a social reality. That's why Fr.
Barron points out to Luther.
Listen, the best way of understanding where the truest doctrine lies is by studying which
denomination pays more heed to the whole body of Scripture, and the one that makes more
sense of the whole, where particularisms do not prevail, but the spirit of the whole is respected.
This might sound convenient for me (as a Catholic I mean) because the denomination that fully
assumes the responsibility of the whole Bible, of making sense of the whole and not giving
overpreference to some individual parts is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the closest
thing possible to a wholly Christian doctrine, and not a partial doctrine, which is the case of all
Protestantism.
TheLongSummer
TheLongSummer
2 years ago
+RinaldoDegliAlbizzi However I think the Gospels are the focal point of the Scriptures for all
Christian denominations, at least they have been at the center of the mass, service etc. at all the
different churches I have visited.
Rachel Gohlman
Rachel Gohlman
2 years ago
The one reason I became Catholic and stayed Catholic is because at every Mass, Jesus gives us
himself, his body and blood in holy communion. We believe this because he said it in the Bible,
in John chapter 6. To me there is no more intimate relationship with Jesus than the one you have
in the Holy Eucharist. Jesus is there with you, not some vague spiritual entity up in heaven, but
living in you and working in your daily life. I would recommend the book "Reasons to Believe" by
Scott Hahn. It was instrumental in my decision to become Catholic.
9
WhopBobbaLuBop
WhopBobbaLuBop
2 years ago
+MrsWebfoot Good for you!
Tim Spangler
Tim Spangler
2 years ago
+Prancer1231 There are only two methods of salvation:
(1) WORKS- believing one can be good enough for God
(2) GRACE - fully admitting we can NOT be good enough...but accepting HIS gift instead
Tony S
Tony S
2 years ago
+nameunselected Jesus said: One who loves me shall keep my commandments. If the young
man really wish to love Jesus, he has to be a part of the Religion.
An example we have to be in the religion, no matter what experiences you got from the Religion
or from the Religious Leaders: (Here Jesus are not congratulating the deeds of the Scribes and
Pharisees, but very clearly he says to his followers to obey what the Scribes and Pharisees says,
because they are seated on the chair of Moses)
Mathew 23/3:
"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that
they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do
not do them. 4"They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they
themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.…
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
The Bible says that Christianity is a Religion:
"But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do
this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does. If
anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives
himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless
is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being
polluted by the world. (From the NIV Bible, James 1:25-27)"
"Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. But if a widow has children or
grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their
own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. The
widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day
to pray and to ask God for help. (1 Timothy 5:3-5)"
The quotes above "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless...." and "....put
their religion into practice.....for this is pleasing to God" are pretty much self-explanatory and
straight forward! CHRISTIANITY IS A RELIGION!!
Religion:-
(1). A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate
humanity to an order of existence.[note 1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred
histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe. From their
beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people may derive morality, ethics, religious laws
or a preferred lifestyle.
Many religions may have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence
or membership, holy places, and scriptures. The practice of a religion may include rituals,
sermons, commemoration or veneration (of a deity, gods, or goddesses), sacrifices, festivals,
feasts, trances, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art,
dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture. Religions may also contain mythology.
[1]
The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or set of duties;[2] however, in
the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is "something
eminently social".[3] A global 2012 poll reports 59% of the world's population as "religious" and
23% as not religious, including 13% who are atheists, with a 9% decrease in religious belief from
2005.[4] However, their 2015 poll found that only 22% of the world population is not religious
and only 11% were "convinced atheists".[5] On average, women are "more religious" than men.
[6] Some people follow multiple religions or multiple religious principles at the same time,
regardless of whether or not the religious principles they follow traditionally allow for
syncretism.[7][8][9]
2
Matthew Ayala
Matthew Ayala
2 years ago
+Saint Paul the problem is when the works become more important than Jesus. When we think
that God only loves us if we do certain things. If we try to become "good" on our own, we will
fail. Miserably. That's where Jesus comes in. If we try to fix ourselves before we go to Him, it's
not going to work. We need to have a relationship with Him and love Him, then through that
love will flow good behavior. God doesn't want someone hatefully submitting to His
commandments. He wants someone who is desperate for His heart and loves Him with
everything that we have.
1
joeyrocks79
joeyrocks79
2 years ago
I pray the Holy Spirit will guide you to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, Christ's
Pilgrim Church on Earth :D
2
Christian Gamer
Christian Gamer
1 year ago
Because your not asking the right question.
eric lee
eric lee
1 year ago
ask Jesus meditate on Jesus and there you will find him in the depths of your mind the proud
man will tell you no ask me i know him better than you
Don Schindler
Don Schindler
1 year ago
nameunselected Keep praying.
1
Deliberate Catholic
Deliberate Catholic
1 year ago
nameunselected ex Baptist here. Catholicism is the only one that makes sense. That's why I
converted.
3
Daniel A. Martin
Daniel A. Martin
1 year ago
The version of Jesus that is absolute truth, is the one that is written in scripture. Go with
scripture, not what a person tells you.
3
Bee
Bee
11 months ago
I was raised Catholic but in my early 30s wanted to UnCatholic and un-religion myself. I thought
that if I would actually study Catholicism I would be able to walk away because it wouldn't stand
up to scrutiny. What happened, fortunately, was the opposite. CS Lewis, GK Chesterton, and
Scott Hahn were pivotal in my reversion. Father Barron is a faith sustaining source of
information. I have both his Catholicism and Pivotal Players Series on DVD. Catholic Answers
might also help you and Marcos Grodi (The Coming Home Network) is a former Protestant
preacher who is now Catholic and he lovingly explains and helps others on their journey. Lewis
never came into the Church completely but remained a faithful Christian in the Anglican
tradition. The others converted. Ultimately we must follow our "well-formed" conscience.
3
Alonso Sánchez
Alonso Sánchez
10 months ago
If you want to know the TRUTH there is only One source! It is not important what others say, it
only matters what YOU believe and that depends on what you understand. Everyone is quick to
tell you what they consider is truth and what to believe. The BIBLE is the WORD of GOD and
Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit to teach us and lead us to the truth of what GOD has
provided for us. So, I would only suggest that you start Reading the book of John and listen to
what you read and hear in your heart. God gives peace with the truth. God Bless! And if I can
help in any way, you can contact me here.Raymond Peyton -- tortugarp@hotmail.com or
facebook
1
Vic Guerra
Vic Guerra
9 months ago
Trust in the grace and love of God, talk with different leaders listen to them, focus on repentance
Switzerland is my name
Switzerland is my name
Shadowedlady I'm am very heartily sorry for the bad experience you had with your school and
the people who made you feel this way through your life.
I am a catholic and my church is beautiful, I don't want all Catholics to be generalized as people
who don't care and neglect the needy. We are always taught to lend a helping hand and help
those in need as well as love our neighbor always. We're always taught to never judge and to
love unconditionally. Not all Catholics are as you describe! A majority I know are good and loving
people who are kind and charitable to people. We have donations and opportunities to help the
poor and needy often, for instance our church youth group goes to downtown L.A to deliver food
and water to the homeless!
There are always a good and bad batch of Catholics as with most religious groups, I'm sure if you
find another church you will have a better experience :)
Joshua
Joshua
6 months ago
Come Out Of Her My People Jesus Said, means ALL CHURCHS. SATAN OWNS 19,950 different
Christian religions.Out of 20,000
Simon Girard
Simon Girard
5 months ago
Same
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
3 months ago
Joe Hilty Study on the early Church ante-nicence
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
3 months ago
nameunselected Was Jesus Christ not religious?
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
nameunselected, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG3QdH7Z74s&t=103s we must
receive the Body and blood of Christ to have eternal life.
1
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
aughalough1 What else does the New Testament state on salvation?
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
Alonso Sánchez "if you want to know the TRUTH there is only One source!"
You were right to say One source until you stated:
"it only matters what YOU believe and that depends on what you understand"
I assume you are a protestant/restorist denominational congregational group member
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
Alonso Sánchez True Christianity if one reads the New Testament, does not state anywhere that
"it only matters" what one believes and that it "depends" on what one understands, this is both
unbiblical and not taught in Church tradition, hence it is anti-christ
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
Alonso Sánchez I strongly suggest you seek the early ante-nicene already established Church
2,000 years ago on what they taught, believe and practiced before you continue to promote anti-
christian teachings
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
Joshua Kennedy I assume you are a mormon
SmokeySmudgeStudio
SmokeySmudgeStudio
2 years ago
I think what Jeff was actually talking about is the fact that we need an intimate personal
relationship with God first and foremost. The 'religion' he is talking about is the idea that as long
as you do this that and the other you will be saved rather than it being a question of your heart.
It's important that we don't live in fear of God, just begrudgingly following his commandments
out of fear, but rather have genuine love for him which inspires us to follow his teaching and
heed his word. If you treat God as just some rules to follow or some rituals to do you miss the
point of living in intimacy with him. I know my sin is paid for by Jesus on the cross by the scandal
of grace and that means I am no longer separated from him. Now the holy spirit can live within
me and transform me to become more christlike, as opposed to just me trying to be a good
person in my own strength just so I won't go to hell. I love Jesus and I love being part of his body
on earth right now, the Church, but that body needs to be focused on the head, Jesus, not the
theatrics of rituals and thinking that gets you to heaven without engaging with God on a
personal level. I'm not ranting against all sacrament, when it is said as a declaration of God's
people, but when it's said monotonously by people who don't realise the joy that is found in
what they are saying, there is a problem. The same is true in modern churches that focus too
much on having fancy lights and apple products instead of the real reason we're here. As long as
we follow rules in response to knowing Jesus, and not just out of fear caused by man, then there
is no problem with the Church.
63
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
4 months ago
Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy
One is understanding." :)
1
Sapphire Stoker
Sapphire Stoker
SmokeySmudgeStudio Hey! I've just read your comment and I too understand exactly what
you're saying. It's like praying, when we say the Lords Prayer, are we just repeating the words as
a monotonous ritual? Or are we understanding those words and repeating them with meaning
from our hearts. To my mind, when Jesus graciously imparted the Lords Prayer to us, he was
perhaps showing us how to pray. Now forgive me if I'm wrong, I just feel that God would rather
hear our personal inner thoughts and feelings towards H.I.M. And thus in hearing our
supplications, our joy's and our torments which are formed from our Beliefs & Praising of H.I.M,
that we as his children have the personal and the Divine connection with our Father. In essence
there is a fundamental difference of repeating the traditions of 'Old' and Honouring Our Father
from our hearts. However, I also agree with Bishop Barrons thoughts of Jesus without Religion,
Jesus didn't come to Change or Banish the Old Testament but rather came to Fulfil it. The Son of
God was apposed to man's deception and blasphemous ways that were being carried out within
the Churches under the pretence of worshiping God. As it is written Matthew 6:5 'And when you
pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the
street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their reward. But when you
pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your
Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
1
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
2 months ago
I take it you are not Catholic by using the phrase "monotonous ritual."When Jesus came there
were the Jewish synagogues and the temple, no Churches. Jesus was never against the religion
of the Jews, because he is the one who founded it (read Leviticus in the O.T.). He was against
the Pharisees, because they were hypocrites.Matthew 23 1-3 "Then Jesus spoke to the
multitudes and to His disciples saying: The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
Therefore, whatever they tell you to observe, THAT OBSERVE AND DO, but do not do according
to their work; for they say and do not do."How interesting is it that Jesus recognizes a tradition
of the Jews by mentioning the Moses' seat, something that is not decreed anywhere in the OT.
Jesus was only against those traditions that nullify the word of God, not those that promote
it.Original Christian worship when the faithful gather together has always been liturgical and
done in unison.Act 2:42 "And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship,
in the breaking of bread, and in prayers."Worshiping and praying together and personal prayers
are too different acts of worship. When Aaron's sons decided to step out of unison their
worship was considered "strange fire" and they were consumed by fire from the Lord. (Leviticus
10:1-2)I think you hit the nail on the head, though, when you mention what comes from the
heart, but are incorrect about repetition. In Matthew 26:44 it mentions Jesus praying for a third
time "saying the same words."For more insight into liturgical worship from the bible read about
the heavenly scenes in the book of Revelation. The Jews just like the early Church believed while
they worshipped on earth heavenly worship took place simultaneously. Hence we read in
Hebrews 12:22-24 when we come to Christ that we "have come to Mount Zion and to the city of
the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general
assembly and church of the first born who are registered in heaven, to God, the Judge of all, to
the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant" ..... All I can
say is thank God for the Catholic Mass which is the greatest celebration of the life of Jesus Christ
on earth. I am so glad to have left those non-denominational organizations and have come back
home to the Church founded by Jesus Christ and His apostles.
2
Sapphire Stoker
Sapphire Stoker
2 months ago
@ThomasThomas. Thank you for taking the time to write to me explaining the meaning behind
the rituals of our sweet Jesus in terms of liturgical worship of 'saying the same words'. I guess
you have a wider in-depth knowledge of worshiping. In all honesty I am currently on the cusp of
solidifying and understanding my personal relationship with our Mediator ; Jesus. I also have to
kindly thank you for also taking the time to site the paragraphs, so that I can read and
understand them. I'm so glad that you have found somewhere where you feel connected and
safe within the Catholic Church. Have me in your thoughts as I continue my Journey in
discovering Jesus. Peace from the UK.x
1
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
You are quite welcome and thank you for a most generous response. I am actually nothing and
nobody, but find much joy in the sharing revelations revealed to me by our Lord through His
teaching from His Church. Remember, in the Colossians 2:3 St. Paul says that in Christ are
hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and in the book of Proverbs 2:4 we're are
told to seek wisdom like silver or a buried "treasure." A walk with Christ is the greatest journey
you will ever encounter, and He has a time and place for everyone. All praise be to Jesus! I also
like Ephesians 2:19 where we learn when we come to Christ we are no longer strangers and
foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.
GnaReffotsirk
GnaReffotsirk
1 month ago
The religious order in those days came from their commentaries of the law, essentially, man-
made dictates that were not only cruel, serving the elite, but also kept a large portion of people
away from YHWH.
This is why Yeshua said they were driving a wedge between people and YHWY, and were blind
guides.
He taught the law, summing it up in those three short commands.

Michael Sizemore
Michael Sizemore
1 year ago
One follow up point. The man on the cross next to him did nothing but admit his sin and believe
in his name. He did nothing after that but die. He didn't experience church life. He received no
"last rights". Yet Christ said he would see him in heaven. All who received Him and believed,
even those who believed in His name.
48
devan trace
devan trace
1 year ago
Indeed this implies one CAN be saved by faith, but does not dictate that it is the norm. Also, due
to the thief's situation, the only "work" available to him was his cooperation with the Grace of
Christ. God is not bound by the Sacraments, but they are the ordinary means through which He
dispenses specific Graces.
17
hamster.
hamster.
1 year ago
The man did more than you think. At first it may not seem so, but things are not always on a
surface level. By repenting on the cross during his last moments, one could see where his heart
is. The same goes for the other thief who refused to repent. There was very little spirituality in
that thief, since he clearly still thought in a worldly sense, as in saving the flesh.
Basically, I wouldn't say that the thief who repented "did nothing but admit his sin", since he
openly repented in front of a crowd, which is an act in and of itself. So by realizing your
wrongdoings, truthfully regretting your sins and ultimately repenting, you're not doing nothing,
you're actually doing something, especially if it's in front of other people.
I'm fairly sure that the people who were there and heard him and saw him turn to Christ were
influenced in one way or another by this very action. Now that was his sort of 'mini ministry', so
to speak.
And so, I would safely consider the outward expression of repentance as something, and not
nothing. In the end, we shouldn't forget: the one goes with the other; faith + works.
6
Eugen Balan
Eugen Balan
10 months ago
Amen!
warblueredgreenpaint
warblueredgreenpaint
10 months ago
I know this comment is old, but may I say that that criminal that repented did not only do that,
but he also PAID for his sins by dying in an extremely painful way. It may seem as if he had 'stolen
the heaven' , but he actually died a martyr, because he repented, admitted in front of everybody
that Jesus is the king (that is, he testified), he also defended Jesus when the other criminal was
provoking him ( That is, he warned a sinner) and in the end died. His sins were washed by his
martyr blood, that's why he went straight to heaven.
8
George Lemeitre
George Lemeitre
You can't pay your own debt. Only Jesus Christ can. For the wage of sin is death. Physical and
spiritual (eternal death/hell). The thief was justified because of his faith, he believed that Jesus
Christ is the Son of God, and because of Christ's own blood, not the thief's own blood. The
thief's blood wasn't enough for it lasts temporarily. It's not enough for him to have eternal life.
The blood of Christ will never lose its power. The blood that covered the thief and you
(Yesterday, today, and in the future) is the blood of Jesus Christ. The thief was made righteous
because of faith and because of the finished work of Jesus Christ. I hope you understand now.
1
Chase12083
Chase12083
6 months ago
By nature of faith there is a choice, a decision (I.e. a work) involved. That’s what baffles me
about Protestants even when I was one, the idea that “there’s nothing you can do to save
yourself so accept Christ” to me is a contradiction. We’re saved through the graces freely given,
unearned by us, which is a point we agree on. However, we must accept those graces which are
provided by the sacraments. I would argue he received his “last rights” in the most perfect way,
physically from Christ Himself, as he confessed his sins and was given absolution.
4
Michael Greenan
Michael Greenan
3 months ago
But the visible Jesus is no longer walking on this Earth. But the Church he established still is--the
Catholic Church. We receive Jesus through this institution--through the sacraments, through her
teaching, etc. Even the thief didn't confess to an invisible man. He confessed to Jesus face-to-
face. Jesus' human body is no longer with us, but Jesus' mystical body is still with us--the Church
he established.
2
sstroh08
sstroh08
1 week ago
I would argue his work was then willingly accepting his death on the cross. He said he isn't
worthy to die next to God Himself and in the same way, but asked for His forgiveness. That was is
offer. That was his work.
1
Hoswe Sierra
Hoswe Sierra
1 year ago
Jesus Christ didn't created religion HE created CHURCH which is inside of us, spiritual!
125
Caroline
Caroline
1 year ago
James 1:26
2
wms72
wms72
1 year ago
Then why did He say that the Church would be like a City on a Hill? Why did He say, "If he doesn't
listen to you, tell the Church"? How could anyone "tell" an invisible church? "Religion" comes
from Latin which means "to bind one back to God." That is what Jesus did for us.
14
Hoswe Sierra
Hoswe Sierra
1 year ago
wms72 hey man what Jesus talking about is church inside us we are the temple of God, Christ
lives with us
He can build that in 3 days

And what he's talking about peter is where to hold or build a foundation of church
Where and what is ur base ? Religion or bible ?
Religion might preach grace another thing they practice
They're making religion as a business, yes reconciliation to Jesus is religion that's the fact but
how about bible ?
Isn't that a tool for reconciliation too?
The truth is we're just lazy to open that book dude the bible
Johanna040713
Johanna040713
1 year ago
Yes. I don't understand why the difference is so hard to understand for Catholics (and many
others). Church doesn't equal religion. Jefferson Bethke was right with his "simplistic" argument.
Jesus was against religion based on traditions.
2
Hoswe Sierra
Hoswe Sierra
1 year ago
I agree with you coz Religion is tradition,
We'll know that Jesus didn't implicate traditions really,
And religion is violence,

Felipe, Loves Jesus!!!!!
Felipe, Loves Jesus!!!!!
11 months ago
I so agree with ur comment and as i say,You dont go to church, You are the church.
2
Hoswe Sierra
Hoswe Sierra
11 months ago
Felipe, Loves Jesus!!!!! That's true
1
Caroline
Caroline
11 months ago
God the Father wants holy people. He wants people to be holy and come to Him pure I'm mind,
spirit, and heart. He wants us to be pure, loving, Godly. If we are religious yet out heart is full of
hypocrisy and we keep judging others for their doings, that is hypocrisy. We need to be true and
people of God. This is why there are few who are chosen because few people decide to follow
the Lord in the way He wants us to be. Many people let themselves astray and go aside. With
Jesus, we are Christian and we have love and peace. God bless! :)
2
Karlea Stemper
Karlea Stemper
9 months ago
Val Joshua Yes, Amen
1
Love
Love
9 months ago
Cari sin does not exist
Max The Great
Max The Great
9 months ago
Love what are you saying
Hoswe Sierra
Hoswe Sierra
9 months ago
Love it exist
Rui F.
Rui F.
9 months ago
Church=True Religion. Church is not only "spiritual" or only "inside of us", since the first century
that the Church had a struture with Bishops, Priests, Diacons, etc and we need the priests and
bishops, sucessors od the apostles, to have acess to baptism, eucharist, etc. Was the Church that
spread the gospel all over the world and even that had defined the Biblical Canon, under
inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Jesus and the Church that He has created 2000 years ago are
inseparable.
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell the Church. If he refuses to listen even to the Church, then
treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector." Matthew 18, 17
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of
the netherworld shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16, 18
"Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, to all God's holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi,
together with their presiding elders and the deacons." Philippians 1,1
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and
of the Son, and of the holy Spirit" Matthew 28, 20
"For a bishop as God’s steward must be blameless, not arrogant, not irritable, not a drunkard,
not aggressive, not greedy for sordid gain" Titus 1, 7
20
ETC
3
Hoswe Sierra
Hoswe Sierra
9 months ago
ILJC yes I agree what u have just said ..
But the question is did Jesus Created religion?
Richard Grayson
Richard Grayson
9 months ago
Val Joshua yes he did create a religion. The Catholic faith
1
Hoswe Sierra
Hoswe Sierra
8 months ago
Richard Grayson u sure give a bible verse that says catholic is in bible
Richard Grayson
Richard Grayson
8 months ago
Val Joshua Don't need to as sola scriptura is a heresy
Sean Chaney
Sean Chaney
8 months ago
He created pure religion, which is distinguished from corrupt religion. (James 1:26-27)
2
Ronnie Amituanai
Ronnie Amituanai
7 months ago
This is an illogicality Johana040713. Illogicality means calling a chair a table. This means it is not
of our Lord, who calls love love, justice justice, mercy, mercy, forgiveness forgiveness.
Ronnie Amituanai
Ronnie Amituanai
7 months ago
dear Felipe that truly love Jesus by her convictions. What about those protestants individuals
who attack Jesus as the Son of God and therefore divine in their hearts. Surely this is cruel to
Christianity.
Mikael
Mikael
7 months ago
wms72 idiots like you , don't need Bible but dictionary , to learn some figures of speech or
metaphors
1
Joshua
Joshua
6 months ago
Well done JOSHUA, telling these LIARS the TRUTH and the people watching. When Jesus said
COME OUT OF HERMY PEOPLE. JESUS meant to come OUT of ALL CHURCHS on the EARTH.
Joshua
Joshua
6 months ago
Liar, Liar, yours is MOTHER of HARLOTS don't any of you CATHOLICS EVER READ YOUR BIBLE.
Felipe m
Felipe m
5 months ago
Sola Scriptura isn't in the bible as well and yet you still use it as reference.
1
Joy Salve
Joy Salve
4 months ago
if you read the book of ACTS , you will know that the Church has both spiritual and tangible
elements i.e. a developing institution
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Val Joshua, I don't belong to a religion or denomination, I belong to the church Jesus Christ
established in 33AD, The Catholic Church is over 2,000 years old .
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Alan Priest, I often heard that the Catholic Church started in the fourth century by Emperor
Constantine. On the other hand, we are told that Peter was executed by the Romans. His
remains were interned and buried underneath the present Bascillica, but you would not believe
that, would you?
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Alan Priest, The Roman Catholic Church was founded by the Roman Emperor, Constantine, in 313
A.D.??? Can this be proven?
--------------------------------------...
That is what some anti-Catholics will tell you.
When you ask them for "proof" of what they say, they will refer to the "Edict of Milan" issued by
Emperor Constantine in 313 A.D.
--------------------------------------...
This false charge is riddled with errors. Let us examine them one at a time...
--------------------------------------...
1. They use faulty reasoning by saying that since the Catholic Church is called the "Roman
Catholic Church", it must have been founded by a Roman Emperor, namely Constantine. They
point to the "Edict of Milan", issued in 313 A.D., as "proof". Now if anyone would just read the
"Edict" for themselves, they would find that it merely gave Christianity the freedom to practice
the faith openly and with no fear of persecution from the Romans. After all, for centuries
Christians were persecuted mercilessly by the Romans from the very beginning. It was the
Romans who nailed Jesus Christ to the cross and it was a Roman soldier who thrust a spear into
His side. Do you recall the Roman Circus and all of those hungry lions?
Nothing at all is said in the "Edict" about Constantine founding the "Catholic Church", which is
not even mentioned by name in the document, and the persons who perpetrate this false charge
cannot provide any other genuine historical document which supports it.
--------------------------------------...
2. Their second error is the fact that the term ,"Roman Catholic", was not even coined until
about 1200 years later in the 16th century, by Protestant reformers, especially Anglicans,
because they wanted to retain the name "Catholic" for themselves.
--------------------------------------...
3. Their third error is their failure to read, and to accept, the documents of the Church Fathers
and other Church writers. Hundreds of these documents clearly contain the words "Catholic
Church", and are dated from 107 A.D.. That date is hundreds of years before Constantine's
"Edict" was issued. Genuine historical writings in which the words "Catholic Church" appear, are
in every century from 107, up to and beyond the Reformation, and to this very day.
The sheer volume of these genuine historical documents is so overwhelming, that it is a
continuity that cannot be denied.
Saint Augustine alone, mentioned the Catholic Church by name over 300 times in his writings.
Just to mention a few more, so did Saint Athanasius and Saint Jerome mentioned the Catholic
Church by name many times. These are just three examples out of scores of early authors.
--------------------------------------...
4. Their fourth error is in trying to show that the "Catholic Church", and the "Roman Catholic
Church", are two different Churches, when in fact they are one and the same.
--------------------------------------...
5. Their fifth error is their interpretation of, for example, the Russian Catholic Church, the
Ukrainian Catholic Church, etc. They try to show divisions such as Roman, Russian, Ukrainian etc.
They fail to realize that there are many Catholics in these, and many other countries, and they
are not separate Catholic Churches, but are united to the one Holy Catholic Church. The names
just distinguish them from the Orthodox Churches in those countries. It would be proper to say,
"the Catholic Church in Russia, the Catholic Church in Ukraine", etc..
--------------------------------------...
6. Their sixth error is tagged to the first error in that anti-Catholics try to peg the Catholic Church
as an "apostate"* or a "Pagan Church", since they charge that it "was founded" by the pagan
Roman Emperor Constantine. If the detractors insist on this false charge, then they will have to
admit that the very Bible which they all use, came from that same "apostate" or "pagan" Church,
and it was provided by that Church scores of years after Constantine died.
*Calling the Catholic Church an "apostate Church" is tantamount to calling Jesus Christ a liar
(1John 5:10), for Jesus promised in Matthew 28:20, that He would be with His Church every day
in every century until the end of time, and with no gaps. He also promised that the Holy Spirit
would be with His Church forever, in John 14:16-17, and that His Church is the final authority, in
Matthew 18:17, and that He would not orphan His Church, in John 14:18.
Saint Paul wrote in Ephesians that, "Just as Christ is head of the Church, being Himself savior of
the body." Ephesians 5:21
Mike Smith, Of course the Catholic Church was not founded by the Emperor Constantine. It
existed 300 years before him. All Constantine did was stop the persecution of Catholic Christians
and allow for greater expansion of the Church. Those that believe otherwise are suffering from a
lack of scholarship and probably reading fanciful history written by anti-Catholic bigots.
Some Evangelicals have been told by their well meaning pastors that Constantine "invented" the
Catholic Church. Catholics believe that history bears a different story. I don't think that that
theory reflects sound historical scholarship. Susan Fortin explains that the word Catholic was
used before the end of the first century. She writes:
St. Ignatius of Antioch, apostolic Father and bishop. He was a disciple of St. John, along with St.
Polycarp. Theodoret, the Church historian says he was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, who was
at first bishop of Antioch before going to Rome. Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor
Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain
invaluble information about the early Church. He was the first to use the term "Catholic" to
describe the Church.
We must remember that Constantine did not actually become a Christian until he was an old
man on his death bed. That was when he was baptised and professed that Jesus is Lord. During
his life he did not surrender to Christ. He simply changed the law so that is was no longer illegal
to be Christian. Which was quite prudent of him given that Christianity was steadily groaning and
might have turned into an ugly rebellion against him.
To help us understand Constantine's relationship to the Church, let us look at modern day China.
In China, there is great oppression against the Church. We've all heard about the atrocities;
about people being dragged off by the authorities never to be seen again; about authorities
breaking up public gatherings of Christians and throwing them in prison; outlawing the Bible etc.
This is a terrible situation and many Christians have become martyrs to change it.
Assume a leader came into power in China who recognized Christianity and made it legal.
Imagine what a great day that would be, a celebration! Christians could go out freely and preach
the Good News from the housetops as Jesus commanded. They would be able to freely gather
and convert people to the life giving faith in Christ. The leader who accomplished that
tremendous feat would be one of the greatest men in all of China's history, regardless of his own
personal defects of character. He would be instrumental in the salvation of millions and perhaps
billions. (Let's pray that happens).
The situation of the early Church in Rome was not unlike modern day China. Christians were
being thrown to the lions, torn limb from limb. They were under great persecution. This was
inhibiting Jesus' command to proclaim the Good News from the housetops.
Therefore whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have
whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed from the housetops. I tell you my friends, do
not fear those who kill the body and after that can do nothing more. (Lk 12:3-4)
This Scripture passage was not only a command, it was a prophesy of things to come, and it did
not come to pass until Constantine made Christianity "legal." It's pretty hard to proclaim the
Good News from a housetop if someone comes along and arrests you and kills you when you
preach! It is clear that the persecution of Christians in the Roman empire was not what Jesus
wanted and that it had to change. Constantine was the fulfillment of prophecy (Lk 12:3-4).
Constantine's wife convinced him to preserve many historical sites that have, over the ages,
enriched the lives of millions of Christians including Evangelicals who have journeyed to the Holy
Land. Despite any personal defects we might attribute to Constantine, he performed one of the
greatest feats of any man in history. He brought the Church out from under the yoke of
oppression and allowed people to preach the gospel from the housetops which is what Christ
commanded and prophesied. This action by Constantine saved millions of lives and more
importantly, it saved millions of souls. If you are "saved" today you may want to be thankful for
what Constantine did. If you were able to trace back through the generations of Christians
leading up to the one who brought the Good News to you, you would probably find a critical link
to Constantine's decision. Many Christians, including Evangelicals, would not be Christian today if
it was not this providential twist in history.
After the crucifixion, the apostles passed to the Early Church Fathers, the Faith. Later Emperors
and Monarchs accepted the Creed; their subjects followed. That's how it started.
Constantine did not invent the Church any more than a modern day leader who would legalize
Christian practices in China would invent Christianity.
John 21:15-17states:
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love
me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him,
"Feed my lambs."
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes,
Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "
1
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago (edited)
Alan Priest,The Catholic Church is the one and only Church established by Christ on the
foundation of the apostles. Catholicism is not a denomination. Denominations are man-made.
According to the four Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles, about the year 33 C.E., the structure
of the Church was set up by Jesus Christ before His Ascension and then the early Christian
Church was born on Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles and disciples.
This same Church has referred to itself as the “Catholic Church” at least since 107 C.E. (about 10
years after the last book of the New Testament was written), when the Greek term "Katholikos"
(meaning universal) appears in the Letter of St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans:
"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the multitude be; even as wherever Christ Jesus is,
there is the Catholic Church."
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...
We do not know how long they had been using the term "Catholic" before it was included in this
rare surviving letter.
All of this was long before the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed from 325 C.E. which states,
"We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.h...
2
I support freedom of speech not freedom from speech
I support freedom of speech not freedom from speech
1 month ago
Both in spirit and in conreteness
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Alan Priest, the very term Catholic means universal you tool..............! The term Roman or
Romish as a slur upon us Catholics was created by Henry VIII. He couldn't use the term Latin as
the Anglican Rite is/was a Latin Rite. So he coined Roman and Romish to designate those loyal to
Rome rather than England. Today, our Fundy friends try to use it to "prove" Catholicism was
"created" by Constantine.
The Church has always been just "Catholic" and within her are 23 different rites. The Latin Rite is
the largest and most well known. The Orthodox split from the Catholic Church in 1054. They are
still considered part of the one true Church and retain apostolic succession. All the Protestant
faiths (including the non-denominational sects) are branches off Catholicism, or branches off
branches etc. Interestingly many here claim there were "other" Christian groups, yet there is no
historical support for this. There were heretical groups, so maybe that is what they mean.
Arianism, and other such wrong beliefs, had quite a few adherents over the centuries and
continue to have some today. However, they were not other Christian faiths, but a heretical
branch that the Church consistently and and successfully refuted.
1
aughalough1
aughalough1
I support freedom of speech not freedom from speech, Article 19 of the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights, adopted in 1948, states that: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and
expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek,
receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Alan Priest, Jesus Christ Himself founded the Church and instituted the Papacy as the visible
head of the Church by giving the Keys of the Kingdom to Saint Peter and all successors.
Peter is the Rock on which the Church is Built

Mark 3:16; John 1:42 – Jesus renames Simon "Kepha" in Aramaic which literally means "rock."
This was an extraordinary thing for Jesus to do, because "rock" was not even a name in Jesus'
time. Jesus did this, not to give Simon a strange name, but to identify his new status among the
apostles. When God changes a person's name, He changes their status.
Gen. 17:5; 32:28; 2 Kings 23:34; Acts 9:4; 13:9 - for example, in these verses, we see that God
changes the following people's names and, as a result, they become special agents of God:
Abram to Abraham; Jacob to Israel, Eliakim to Jehoiakim, Saul to Paul.
The Roman Catholic Church traces its foundation to Jesus and the Twelve Apostles. It sees the
bishops of the Church as the successors of the apostles and the pope in particular as the
successor of Peter, leader of the apostles.
Roman Catholics cite Jesus' words in the Gospel of Matthew to support this view: "... you are
Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church ... I will give you the keys to the kingdom of
heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth
shall be loosed in heaven."
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Alan Priest , I trust Jesus Christ who established a visible church with Peter as the first pope.
And why in the world would I trust your personal interpretation of the Bible especially when you
clearly don't understand the role of the Pope or Catholic teachings? I doubt you .......
I don't find it hard to believe that God does His will through imperfect humans - the Bible is full
of examples of that. In fact, God didn't write the Bible directly. The Holy Spirit inspired imperfect
men to write the Bible - why is it so hard to understand that the Holy Spirit would also guide the
Church to help interpret that writing?
I doubt you're really interested in understanding, but for others who might want to understand
the biblical evidence for the papacy:
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/05/b...
1
aughalough1
aughalough1
Alan Priest , ONE CHURCH - Is there to be only one Church or many? According to Scripture,
Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to
think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6),
not many. For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many. Also, since the
Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife
(essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)? No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e.,
one Church, not many).
Every Christian believes that Jesus Christ established and sustains a community of faith, hope
and love for all believers. This community we call His Church. The Church that Christ founded is
the Catholic Church in 33AD which has a formal earthly structure established by Christ and which
continues under His authority and protection.
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Alan Priest, some Protestants are so gullible! https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=7y1xJAVZxXg&t=442s
Boy Toy
Boy Toy
11 hours ago
Hoswe Sierra - that moment when someone doesn’t watch the entire video..
Matthew Junker
Matthew Junker
2 years ago
Cool, rational, and well-reasoned. Bishop Barron is a treasure of the Church.
31
Nik Kingman
Nik Kingman
9 months ago
why did you capitalize "church"?
Matthew Junker
Matthew Junker
Because I'm using it as a proper noun, referring to the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not using
"church" in a common, non-specific way. This isn't a theological point. Just a grammatical one.
4
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Interestingly, the Catholic "Religion" gave that young man his only rule of faith ... The Bible.
166
EM
EM
2 years ago
Actually, it was God that gave him and all of us His word (the Bible). That is why Jesus > religion.
God bless you.
15
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
God gave it to the Catholic Church, who gave it to the world. The CC was never told or directed
to write and produce a book--- My point was that an "organized" religion, in an organized
council, made it possible for this "religion hater" to learn of Jesus and his message. I'm confused
by your comment. It is historical truth.
23
pilgrim
pilgrim
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio No; he gave it first to the Jews.
8
EM
EM
2 years ago
I didn't mean to confuse you. Basically, what I was trying to say is that God gave us His word
through the bible and I totally get what you are saying that the cc is what helped the spread of
His word. The meaning behind Jesus>religion is that we must not forget to place God before any
institution and/or worldly view. We must remember that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life
and no one can come to the Father except through Him. John 14:6. What Mr. Bethke was just
saying that at the end of the day and one day our lives it isn't just about "religion" but
relationship. We are free to go to God directly without rules and regulations because He meets u
s where we are. Just a contrite heart is all we need because Jesus did it all-once for all time. Of
course we can't and shouldn't want to continue to willfully sin against God so the law is still in
place. the commandments are followed when you love God with all your heart, mind and soul
and you love your neighbor as you love yourself as stated in Matthew 22:37-38. That's why Jesus
says all the commandments can be summed up in those two. The Holy Spirit is our helper and is
what allows us to not want to commit sin against our Lord or each other. You won't want to
murder, steal, lie, etc because you love God with all your heart, mind and soul and you love your
neighbor as you love yourself. Only the power of God can do such a mighty and wonderful thing
like that. :-) To me, it's the most beautiful and priceless gift we have been offered. An actual
direct relationship with the Creator of the universe because of what Jesus accomplished on the
cross. With love like that we can change the world just like the first apostles and even more so.
Sorry for this long winded response. I pray this finds you in the right spirit and many blessings
and love to you and your family always.
7
pilgrim
pilgrim
2 years ago
+Michelle R Well said.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Michelle R Rather than type my brains out I've added a link to help you in your
confusion.http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truthMuch of what you say
is beautiful and true, but you are denying or overlooking some very important details of Biblical
History and Church History. This link may help.
9
EM
EM
2 years ago
Hi there! Thanks for your response and the link you attached is informative so thank you. I was
raised catholic and I'm familiar with the history of the Catholic Church. I was actually married in
the Catholic Church so it was a very big part of my life and I have a deep respect for the cc. What
happened to me cannot be explained into words so It's difficult for me to try and explain when I
say I found Jesus personally. With the cc, I always felt I had to jump hurdles to not even be sure if
I was going to Heaven in the end. It was stressful at times! It became so complicated when Jesus
says He did it all so it didn't make sense to me.I thought how does the priest or the pope even
know they are going to go to Heaven if no one can know for sure? And how is that different from
any other person who believes the gospel-regardless of being Catholic? You see for me-going to
Heaven will just be the "cherry on top". What I desire and trust in most while living on this
temporary Earth is my relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I want Him and I
want to know Him. I search for Him and He reveals Himself to me. I believe my soul belongs to
Him now that He has called me and when I read the bible I learn more and more of who He is. so
when and if I go to Heaven, I hope my Father will know me and have mercy and allow me to
enter into His house because I won't be a stranger. I sought for Him and only Him through out
my life. I just didn't truly seek Him and fall in love with Him through the cc. But that's just me.
You may have found Him there and that's what's important. Thank you for being so kind and
respectful to me. I can tell you are His. God bless!! :-)
3
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Thank you for the kind words Michelle. --- May I ask you why you are watching Fr. Barron's
video's on Catholicism? As for me, I am His, but I am a sinful person and there are times when I
choose to sin, despite my love for him. No one, until Luther believed that one could lose their
salvation, not even St. Paul. We are taught that it is the state of one's soul at the time of death,
that renders either salvation or the failure of. One thing to know is that nobody goes to hell,
without wanting to. --- You are probably a victim of poor Catechesis. Many, many Catholics are
and have fallen away because of this. I was a victim of this, but by my research into the history
of the Church, proved the CC is what it claims to be. I then knew that I could trust what it taught
,and begun to study what it was that they have taught about God & Salvation. In other words,
after I was convinced of it's authenticity ... I re-Catechized myself, with the help of good & solid
priests and Catholics. I have a feeling that you are on that path too, and I pray for you. God
Bless & never give-up your search for the one truth and the sole and proper path that God has
chosen for ALL of us.
4
EM
EM
2 years ago
Sure. I was actually showing a friend the Jesus>religion video and this video showed up as
recommended so I watched it to get his perspective. I like reading the comments and I just
happened to see your comment and felt I should respond. We all sin and fall short and I know
we thank God for His mercy and grace! I thank you again for being kind. :-)))
1
Patrick Cassidy
Patrick Cassidy
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Hi Gabe, I'm in a similar situation as yourself. I think the problem with most
Catholics is that we take our faith for granted. It wasn't until my fiancee decided that she wanted
to become a Catholic (her own choice after we just started going together every week). She
asked me to be her sponsor, and I started to feel a fire burning in my heart that was never there
before. I started yearning for a REAL relationship with Christ and with the assistance of His
graces, I was able to become stronger and more knowledgeable in my faith. I'm still growing, as
we all are, and am actively pursuing a relationship with the Father. God bless!
5
HippieSkippy100
HippieSkippy100
2 years ago
All I have to say Gabe, is that I grew up Catholic and even when there were funerals at church,
they still asked for offerings. Why is it the Vatican/CC/Profit Preachers so rich, able to don it's
priests in kings garb and build castles, yet so many are starving? Why do the archbishops I know
decked out with expensive cars, homes? Why do they not practice what they preach outside of
church? Double lives much? When I came to Christ, I met alot more Christians who expressed
the temptations, but chose not to follow them. I know far more Christians going out spreading
the good news.
I'll tell you why CC/religion is flawed = they are hypocrites.
Does it not say in the bible, thou shall not worship idols?, thou shall not pray in repitition for it
dulls the mind?
Did we not have priests guilty of pedophilia, yet NO ONE was tried??? Are they not Catholic
Jesuits pretending to be Christians who were the cause of The Crusades? That's the Vaticans
power. Have enough money to rule the world in the guise of "Holy". In the bible it says, beware
of false prophets. Many are being led away from Jesus by the CC and you know it. The CC leaders
do not know Jesus. And now they're trying to get in the Christian bandwagon because of their
bad press with the ecumenical movement? I say to you Gabe, do your "real" homework. Stop
suppressing the evidence that you know you have dug up.
"Seek the truth - hold fast which is good."
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+HippieSkippy100 Oh hey, I did my homework beginning in 1988 and studied and researched
the CC & Protestantism for the next 4 yrs. I did this because my wife was an Evangelical and her
family thought I was one of Satan's minions. I came to the Truth of the CC and my wife followed
another 4 yrs. later. So no offense, but you asking me to study and come to know the truth, is
like asking me to lie to myself. --- What many Non-CC Christians do is to pile on the questions in
rapid-fire succession, that would take hours to explain. So if you would like we can go over each
complaint you have, one at a time.
6
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio I wanted to start with you're 1st Q, to save time and space I'll sometimes
post a link. 1) http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-there-a-concise-way-to-respond-to-
criticisms-of-the-churchs-wealth I can't speak for all priests of course, but the one's I know have
very little. One that I know drives a brand new Prius. He didn't pay for it, because his Parish
pooled together and bought it for him when he was transferred, because of the amount of
driving he was going to do for his next assignment. His old car was beaten and barely
roadworthy. Another priest purchased a condo and that was paid for by his parents. Are there
priest & bishops who love $$$? I'm sure there are, but are rare exceptions. Think about this ...
Christ Himself chose all 12 of his Apostles., and one of them turned him in to be tortured and
put to death for silver.
4
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Now let me ask you where all the Protestant money goes? Where did Jerry
Falwell's money go? Where did Jimmy Swaggart's money go? How about Joel Osteen?
5
Deborah Nickerson
Deborah Nickerson
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Well, the Jewish people wrote the Bible, so let's give the credit to them.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Deborah Nickerson Yes, and the Jews were also split on the books that they believed as the
true Word of God. This might help ... http://www.catholic.com/video/how-did-the-old-
testament-canon-develop
3
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio The Catholic church did not give us the scriptures. It only acknowledged what
Christians had believed to be scripture from the beginning. So nice try.
1
Deborah Nickerson
Deborah Nickerson
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Yeah, there have been disagreements all around as to what constitutes
canon. Just really my point was that all the authors of the Bible except I think two (?) were
Jewish, people practicing Judaism, so we owe them a debt on that, IMHO.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Who then gave us the Scriptures? Tell me where those who did, went.
Please give us some specific names of those who carried on the faith after the Apostles.
1
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
God Gave us the scriptures, through his prophets. And concerning the new testament
manuscripts, early Christians as a whole had to do with their transmission. And by the way, there
is no historical evidence of presbyters being viewed as and acting as priests until the 3rd century.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Cameron, let's not change the subject. We can talk about priests another time. --- Can you not
name one historically proven "early" Christian?
1
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
I can name the church fathers if that's what you're asking. but I don't see what that has to do
with the canonicity of scripture.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Good ... then those "early Christians you mention having to do with the
transmission of the NT.do know who those "early Christians" were, that you mentioned. They
were Catholics. I think that's important for you to realize. Have you ever read the quotations of
these men? Here are quotes from these earliest post apostle Christians. Please read them.
http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_the_church.htmd These will explain the Canonicity of the NT.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/proving-inspirationhttp://www.catholic.com/tracts/scripture-
and-tradition
4
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio The links don't work. I'd read them if you gave me one that worked, but I do
doubt that any of the earliest church fathers had said anything "explicitly" roman catholic in their
theology. But even if they did for arguments sake say something explicitly roman catholic, It
wouldn't make that theology correct. I will only look to the scriptures as my final source of
authority. I don't care if even one of the apostles direct disciples had a wrong Idea about God, a
wrong idea is a wrong idea. and it doesn't matter how early that wrong idea was invented. A
Method of determining truth is not "The older the idea the better".
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron I copied and pasted. If you don't believe any of the quotes, look them up on
Wiki.The Early Church Fathers on
The Church The early Church was the Catholic Church. It taught infallibly, gave us the New
Testament and was made up of three ranks of clergy, bishop, priest and deacon. The idea of
“Scripture Alone” didn’t exist nor could it have as the printing press would not be invented for
more than a thousand years.Ignatius of Antioch Follow your bishop, every one of you, as
obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles;
give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no
step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole
Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some
person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as,
wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D.
110]).In like manner let everyone respect the deacons as they would respect Jesus Christ, and
just as they respect the bishop as a type of the Father, and the presbyters as the council of God
and college of the apostles. Without these, it cannot be called a Church. I am confident that you
accept this, for I have received the exemplar of your love and have it with me in the person of
your bishop. His very demeanor is a great lesson and his meekness is his strength. I believe that
even the godless do respect him (Letter to the Trallians 3:1-2 [A. D. 110])... The Martyrdom of
Polycarp > When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time
come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole
Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an
ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D.
110])... Irenaeus > The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole
world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).
Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it
is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a
bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man,
whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. For she is the entrance to life; all others are
thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them, but to make choice of the
things pertaining to the Church with the utmost diligence, and to lay hold of the tradition of the
truth. For how stands the case? Suppose there should arise a dispute relative to some important
question among us. Should we not have recourse to the most ancient churches with which the
apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to
the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings?
Would it not be necessary [in that case] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed
down to those to whom they did commit the churches? (ibid. 3:4).. .Tertullian > Where was
Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was
Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago
– in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the
doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed
Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the
brethren, they were more than once expelled (The Prescription Against Heretics 22,30
[A.D.200]) ... Clement of Alexandria > A multitude of other pieces of advice to particular
persons is written in the holy books: some for presbyters, some for bishops and deacons; and
others for widows, of whom we shall have opportunity to speak elsewhere (The Instructor of
Children 3:12:97:2 [A.D. 191]).Even here in the Church the gradations of bishops, presbyters,
and deacons happen to be imitations, in my opinion, of the angelic glory and of that
arrangement which, the Scriptures say, awaits those who have followed in the footsteps of the
apostles and who have lived in complete righteousness according to the gospel (Stromateis
6:13:107:2 [post-A.D. 202])... Hippolytus > When a deacon is to be ordained, he is chosen after
the fashion of those things said above, the bishop alone in like manner imposing his hands upon
him as we have prescribed. In the ordaining of a deacon, this is the reason why the bishop alone
is to impose his hands upon him: He is not ordained to the priesthood, but to serve the bishop
and to fulfill the bishop's command. He has no part in the council of the clergy, but is to attend
to his own duties and is to acquaint the bishop with such matters as are needful. . . . On a
presbyter [priest], however, let the presbyters impose their hands because of the common and
like Spirit of the clergy. Even so, the presbyter has only the power to receive [the Spirit], and not
the power to give [the Spirit]. That is why a presbyter does not ordain the clergy; for at the
ordaining of a presbyter, he but seals while the bishop ordains. (Apostolic Tradition 9 [ca. A.D.
215]).. .Origen > Not fornication only, but even marriages make us unfit for ecclesiastical honors;
for neither a bishop, nor a presbyter, nor a deacon, nor a widow is able to be twice married
(Homilies on Luke, 17 [ca. A.D. 235]).. .Cyprian > The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is
uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home . . . Does anyone believe that this unity which
comes from divine strength, which is closely connected with the divine sacraments, can be
broken asunder in the Church and be separated by the divisions of colliding wills? He who does
not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the
Son, does not hold life and salvation (On the Unity of the Catholic Church 6 [A.D. 251]).Peter
speaks there, on whom the Church was to be built, teaching and showing in the name of the
Church, that although a rebellious and arrogant multitude of those who will not hear or obey
may depart, yet the Church does not depart from Christ; and they are the Church who are a
people united to the priest, and the flock which adheres to its pastor. Whence you ought to
know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if anyone be not with
the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in,
not having peace with God’s priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some;
while the Church which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and
bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another (Letters 66 [A.D. 253]).
2
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio The Early Church Father' speaking of the Catholic Church in Rome: ...
Irenaeus > But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession
of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-
satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it
is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient
church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter
and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having
been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the
churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful
everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189])...
Optatus > In the city of Rome the Episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which
Peter sat, the same who was head — that is why he is also called Cephas — of all the apostles,
the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually
on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that
single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of
your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church" (The Schism of
the Donatists 2:2 [circa A.D. 367]). ... Damasus > The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the
Apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it. The
second see, however, is that at Alexandria, consecrated in behalf of blessed Peter by Mark, his
disciple and an evangelist, who was sent to Egypt by the Apostle Peter, where he preached the
word of truth and finished his glorious martyrdom. The third honorable see, indeed, is that at
Antioch, which belonged to the most blessed Apostle Peter, where first he dwelt before he came
to Rome, and where the name Christians was first applied, as to a new people (The Decree of
Damasus 3 [A.D. 382])........ There are plenty more if this isn't good enough.
2
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Your messing with history, either by ignoring it or purposely attempting to
mis-understand it. If you logically believe the Bible is the final authority, then you must account
for the millions of Christians that had to put their faith in the Traditions of the Church.
Remember that Christ Jesus never told anyone to write a word, he told them to go and preach.
If you believe Christianity did not start until Luther's false teaching of Sola Scriptura, then you
deny the promise of Christ written in the NT, that the Spirit will remain with you in all trurh, until
the end of the age. If you believe it did start with Christ and his apostles then the burden is on
you to show me your version on the history of the early Church. AND REFERENCES PLEASE!
2
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio The earlier fathers such as Polycarp and Ignatious in my opinion do not make
any explicit remarks that would serve as rock solid evidence to support Roman Catholic claims.
Any of their remarks about bishops, deacons and the holy catholic and apostolic church don't
threaten protestant theology in the slightest. and the latter fathers making mention of priests
doesn't matter. Presbyters weren't viewed as having a priestly role until latter, at least that's
what the evidence says. if they were treated as priests from the beginning we have no written
evidence. I believe in one catholic church. But the Roman church fell into unbiblical practices
very early on. And thank God that the printing press was invented even though latter in history.
but its irrelevant when it was invented. the church still had scripture before the printing press,
that is to say the church had them but only those lucky enough to have them in a language they
could understand would be able to read them. Thank God for William Tyndale and other great
protestant reformers who brought us the bible in english and died martyrs at the hands of the
Roman Church in order to do so.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron How can all 42,000 different Protestant faith's be correct? Odd that you
mention the singular "Protestant Theology". Just out of curiosity, which One Catholic Church,
that you mention you believe in, is the true one?
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Luther had some good ideas, but he had some bad ones too, he was after all
still highly influenced by his roman upbringing. But his initial aim was to reform the church not to
leave it. But back in his day there could be no such thing. corrupt men don't just hand over their
power. Yes there should be one holy catholic and apostolic faith. I don't deny church history. I
only deny you're understanding of it. No Christianity didn't start at the protestant reformations.
There has always been an church, even though its leadership had been in error. It doesn't take
human beings long to fall into error. And 42,000 denominations? really? come now. Can you list
them all? people have thrown that number out for years in what they think to be some sort of
an argument. what a lie. and for arguments sake say there was, I doubt they differ highly on core
principle doctrines such as the trinity, and what is necessary for salvation. I bet you'd list Jehovas
witnesses and Mormons and other cults in with that ridiculous figure of 42,000 denominations.
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever." yes the holy spirit has never left us or
forsaken us. he remains with us til this very day. That doesn't mean that you or I as humans
beings aren't susceptible to error. and you had better have 100% surety that certain things you
participate in as a catholic aren't Idolatrous. Because Idolatry is pretty much the worst sin one
can commit. I wouldn't want to stand before God one day and have to account for such a sin,
even if it was done in ignorance.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Yeah, I was wrong. It's at 43,000 now. All offering their own interpretation
of Scripture all differing ... proving that all are wrong and have none of the "ALL TRUTH" Christ
PROMISES to his Church.http://churchrelevance.com/qa-list-of-all-christian-denominations-and-
their-beliefs/ You certainly don't like challenging yourself by looking things up yourself, do you?
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron What does Matthew 16:18 mean to you. It has to be that Our Savior was 1) a
liar 2) an idiot 3) wrong 4) Scripture is false ... Choose one.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron You mention the Trinity as (true) core Doctrine. Tell me who 1st taught this
Doctrine & named it, since it isn't mentioned in the Bible?
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio anyone can get up one morning and say "Hey I just started a new
denomination" does that means its biblically sound? No. And I was right in suspecting that in
that list is included as one of the denominations of protestant Christianity, Jehovahs Witnesses
and Mormons. see that list is unreliable. because JW's and Mormons are not Christians let alone
protestants. They also list Nestorians
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio The word trinity isnt in the bible, that doesnt mean the trinity isnt in the
bible. Its the conclusion you're forced to come to if you read the bible
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron ... And apparently everyone did! Gnostics also considered themselves "higher
level Christians". Fine, remove the Mormons and Jehovah's. In fact remove all you want or
personally believe are not Christians and how many do you have, vs. how many Christ himself
started. Your getting my drift, because you are not stupid. BTW, would you like to see other
lists? Let me know. You are not willing to look at any of the facts I give you, because you are
choosing to be blind to them.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Do you not realize that this term "Trinity" came from the Early Church
Father's as did the Eucharist, Purgatory, etc. They are also taught in the Bible Also you are not
answering my Q's. Of course you don't have to, but you need to understand that you cannot ...
and still come to your personal conclusions. I'll repeat this one: What does Matthew 16:18
mean to you. It has to be that Our Savior was 1) a liar 2) an idiot 3) wrong 4) Scripture is false ...
Choose one.
+Cameron Marron What does Matthew 16:18 mean to you. It has to be that Our Savior was 1) a
liar 2) an idiot 3) wrong 4) Scripture is false ... Choose one.
Read more Show less
Reply · 1
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio This is what Mathew 16:18 means, that the church was founded through
Christ and his apostles. Peter was the first among equals. He played a pivotal role in the early
church in this there can be no doubt. What it certainly doesn't mean; and our orthodox brothers
and sisters would most certainly agree, is that his word holds more authority than ecumenical
councils. or that he is infallible in matters of faith and morals.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron That's not what the Early Church nor it's Early Church Father's say. Your take,
is your mis-informed interpretation, or the interp of other Prots. /////// PLEASE READ And find
me any reputable quote from any other Early Christian who agrees with you. The Early
Church Fathers on
The Primacy of Peter/Rome The first Christians understood that Peter and his successors held a
place of primacy in the Church and exercised authority over it. They believed that a rejection of
Peter’s authority was a rejection of Christ’s authority. As the Scriptures tell us, Peter and Peter
alone received the keys of the kingdom with the power to bind and loose (Matthew 16:18-
19).//////Clement of Rome.... Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If
anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that
they will involve themselves in no small danger. We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and
will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number
of his elect (Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1[A.D. 95]).////////Ignatius of Antioch..... You [the
See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have
enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D.
110]).///////Irenaeus...... But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this
the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner,
whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion,
assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of
the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two
most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which
comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church,
because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole
world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition
(Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).//////////Clement of Alexandria//////// [T]he blessed Peter,
the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the
Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what
does he say? "Behold, we have left all and have followed you" [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who
is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).////////Tertullian////// [T]he Lord said to Peter,
"On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and]
whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt.
16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the
Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have
bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).////////Letter of Clement to
James....... Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith,
and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church,
and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of
our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ,
with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D,
221]).//////////Cyprian........ With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare
even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to
the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (Epistle to Cornelius
[Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you," he says, "that you are
Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he
gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all
the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a
source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was
[i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one
Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one,
fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of
Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon
whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the
Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251])./////////Cyril of Jerusalem......... In the power of the same Holy
Spirit, Peter, both the chief of the apostles and the keeper of the keys of the kingdom of heaven,
in the name of Christ healed Aeneas the paralytic at Lydda, which is now called Diospolis [Acts
9 ;3 2-3 4] (Catechetical Lectures 17;27 [A.D. 350]).//////////Optatus......... In the city of Rome
the Episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head
— that is why he is also called Cephas — of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is
maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who
would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very
fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who
wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church" (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [circa A.D.
367]).//////////Ambrose of Milan .......... [Christ] made answer: "You are Peter, and upon this
rock will I build my Church . . ." Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom,
acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring
him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]? (The Faith 4:5 [A.D.
379]).//////////Augustine...... Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved
to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he
bore, he deserved to hear "I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Sermons 295:2
[A.D. 411]).Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter?
(Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).////////
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Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio After your reaction to the above, please share with me the idolatries you
charge the Catholic Church with. I would like to correct the Protestant errors & assumptions.
Gotta go until later this eve. God Bless!
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Ok, I'm back. Fire when ready Cameron. ;)
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio “[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you
the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will
be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matthew 16:18-19]. . . . What kind of man are you, subverting
and changing what was the manifest intent of the Lord when he conferred this personally upon
Peter? Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys" (Modesty 21:9-
10 – 220 AD) Ok, this the fully quoted text and I can't address them all but I chose this one
because it got me thinking, but the one this version I looked up seems different from the one
you posted, anyways this is my response, that the rock that the church was built on is his
"peters" strong faith in Christ. He as an apostle had the authority to bind and loose. like the
other apostles did. Peter wasn't above council or correction. Paul himself actually rebuked Peter.
Paul did so with his apostolic authority. as it is written in Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was
come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. And the
orthodox bishops did the same to the bishop of Rome. They rebuked him when he fell into error.
The bishop of Rome can't override the decisions of previous ecumenical councils where even his
own predecessor agreed with the bishops of that council. As to the issue of idolatry, I've heard
most apologetics from the catholic side of the argument and I don't buy them. The argument
being whether or not giving the mother of God and other saints so much of our attention and
devotion in the liturgy and out of the liturgy and in our prayer life can be considered acts of
idolatry. I know they pray for us and intercede for us and that they are alive. but I doubt they can
hear us. I doubt especially that they can hear the silent utterances of our heart.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Paul rebuked Peter over his behavior. We went over this behavior thing
before, didn't we? ----- Why do you know that they pray and intercede for us. May I ask what
faith you belong to? I'm confused. ---- I'm wondering how they can pray & intercede for us,
while you claim they can't hear us. Explain please.
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio My faith is christian. and while scripture seems to support that they pray and
intercede for us as you or myself might pray or intercede for others while we live here on earth,
Or at least scripture doesn't explicitly come against such a notion, but the ability to know the
hearts and minds of men is a divine capability. So I have a problem speaking with them under
the presupposition that they hear my every words the way God does. And I don't necessarily see
anything in scripture to support that they would have that ability.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron I'm Christian too. Which denomination gathering do you attend on Sunday?
---- Which Bible verses do you draw your belief that they can pray & intercede for us? ---- If they
can't hear us or know what we need, how would they know what to pray for. Here on this
planet, we can read about those in need of prayer, there's social media, we can hear about it
through them or other's that know them, etc. I guess my question is, what type of
communication do you believe are they exposed or restricted to in Heaven? And you must be
able to support your view Scripturally. Please share.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Cameron, are you still in this debate? God Bless & and Jesus always deserves your search for His
truth!
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio I've thought about it more and I think maybe you're right. Maybe they can
hear us. but I still have a problem with the devotional aspect of the catholic treatment of saints.
2
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Thanks for responding. My answer to your last comment is ... if these souls
that are in Heaven, in the presence of Almighty God, hearing our requests with the ability of
offering them up to Him ... not be worthy of our devotion (not worship)? Catholics worship
GOD ALONE! If they worship any one or any thing else would be in extreme error.
DEVOTION
[dəˈvōSH(ə)n]
NOUN
love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause: "Eleanor's devotion to her
husband" ·
[more]
"his courage and devotion to duty never wavered"
synonyms: loyalty · faithfulness · fidelity · constancy · commitment
·
[more]
adherence · allegiance · dedication · fondness · love ·
admiration · affection · care
religious worship or observance: "the order's aim was to live a life of devotion"
synonyms: devoutness · piety · religiousness · spirituality ·

[more]
godliness · holiness · sanctity
(devotions)
prayers or religious observances.
synonyms: religious worship · worship · religious observance ·

[more]
prayers · prayer meeting · church service
ORIGIN
Middle English: from Latin devotio(n-), from devovere ‘consecrate’ (see devote).
Powered by Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press

Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Enough attention given to anyone or anything apart from God can amount to
Idolatry. I'm devoted to saints here on earth that are my friends and family because I can have
relationship with them and they with me. I don't know any canonized saints. I only know of
them. I have no reason to be devoted to passed away saints I have never known.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Why wouldn't you believe that people in love can not be guilty of idolizing one another?
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
If you believe that the souls in Heaven can go to God and they can hear us, why wouldn't you
participate? You can learn all about them what they did for God, how they died for their faith
etc. That helps us get to know them. --- Think about it, how did you learn everything you know
about Jesus Christ? The Bible only, right. Something very, very important and extremely helpful
to Catholics, is that we learn an immeasurable amount about not only the saint, but about the
Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Why, because we know the exemlery relationship they had with God.
That is a huge advantage, in knowing Him. We are all linked together and are stronger in our
faith because it. I'm sure you have heard about the "Community of Saints." I'll be around off
and on this wkend to continue if you like. In the meantime enjoy the wkend.
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Rian Loubser
Rian Loubser
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Old testament came form the Jewish texts, the new testament were written
by followers of Christ - John did not actually write the book of john, it was written by his scholars
under johns school of thought(ie. Christians, being the Catholic church).
All these texts were filtered and compiled by the Catholic Church and given to the world as the
Holy Bible.
so, the bible was given to the world by the Catholic Church, containing texts inspired by God. this
is where the bible came from, protestant bibles are the same bible with the few changes and
books removed by the reformation, starting with Martin Luther and his translation that was
edited based on his own opinion.
I don't understand why people struggle with this. If you asked a Jew if they gave Christians the
Bible, they would tell you no, because the didn't.
2
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Rian Loubser Protestants struggle with this because of "pride" ... one of the 7 deadly sins.
Admitting to the truth would cause (using an old Seinfeld expression) their worlds to collide. The
fact is their worlds have already collided some 43,000 different times over the past 500 yrs.
2
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
I hope you had a good thanksgiving Gabe. and I hope you have an even merrier Christmas.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron Right back at you. God Bless!
Tad Whitty
Tad Whitty
2 years ago
+Cameron Marron wrote: I do doubt that any of the earliest church fathers had said anything
"explicitly" roman catholic in their theology.
Me: well sir, the problem with that argument is that Ignatius of antioch stated explicitly
"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as,
wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
2
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Thank God for the 'Early Church' Fathers. They were 100% Catholic. --- To state you doubt they
said anything Catholic w/o looking anything up, is quite sad. Be a brave soul and simply type
"Early Church Father's Quotes." Do it! I dare you!
2
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio I believe we are all part of the catholic church. There is only one catholic and
apostolic church. I consider you a brother in Christ. I no longer feel a need to combat your
theology. I was in the spirit of contention before. forgive me. I don't agree with certain aspects of
your theology but I eagerly await the day when all Christians can be in communion again. Jesus
bless you.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Hi Cameron. I appreciate your thoughts and hopes, but realize that it won't be the CC that gives
any ground. It can't. Truth ceases when compromise appears. Continue to be of good will and
forever seek the truth. God Bless and have a wonderful New Year.
1
Cameron Marron
Cameron Marron
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio I recently attended an ecumenical track with protestants and Catholics
worshiping together and I liked what someone there said. concerning ecumenism, do we treat
ecumenism like the story of the prodigal son or the story of the road to emeaus. The first being
that one brother is right and the other is wrong and that he should just come to his senses, the
second being that there are two brothers on the road together who love the same master and
are both trying to reach him as best they can. He put it way better then my attempt to
paraphrase him. The point I think being that we are both working out mystery and trying to
follow our conscious as best we can. Only Jesus Christ can unite us.. when we follow after him
with all our hearts souls and strengths then the other pieces will fall in order. we don't deny our
differences, but we lament the fact the we have them.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Agreed.
1
joeyrocks79
joeyrocks79
2 years ago
Amen Brother!
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio... Jesus , the Shepherd , said His flock always listened to His voice . Since you ,
Catholics , claimed your CC is the flock being referred to , could you tell us how your popes and
priests listened to the voice of Christ while they were murdering and torturing lots of people
during 700 years of RCC Inquisitions ?
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD Sure! The voice of Christ (his Spirit, the Counselor, the Advocate) promised his One,
Holy and Apostolic Church would be given ALL TRUTH, until the end of the age. He did not keep,
nor promise to keep all of them or any of them from sin, or doing wrong. They were human
beings, most good, but all sinful. --- How do you explain the fact that you believe that the Bible
is the true word of God, being that is was produced by the Catholic Church? Before you
respond, research how the Bible came to be, preferably from not from an anti-Catholic source of
your choosing, or your pastor, but from a respected, legitimate source of history. - Then get back
to me. I'll be around. God Bless!
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Are you telling me , your popes & priest did not listen to the voice of Christ
for 700 years of RCC Inquisitions ?
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD Where did I say they did not listen? Do you realize the difference between
promising a One True Church that will always be w/o error as compared to personal sins
committed by it's members and leaders? Christ himself chose 12 apostles. One betrayed him
and turned him in to be crucified, one denied knowing him 3 times on the night before his
crucifixion, one needed to literally feel his wounds, after his resurrection, in order to believe he
did what he claimed he would do and all but one deserted him as he hung dying on the cross,
because they feared they would be next . Again, they were promised by God, that the gates of
Hell would not prevail against it and not that they would be kept in a sinless state. I'll give you a
list of verses if you like, to support all I say. --- I'll be back in an hour or 2. Going to Mass.
1
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio.. So if you were already living during the Inquisition , you would not have
expectation your leaders should lead by example , they should listen to Christ and they should
not commit crimes and atrocities . Remember , we are talking here of killings and tortures that
was monstrous , not small -committed by popes and priests , not laymen - and executed
continuously for very long period of time , not for a day - so you must refrain to compare these
to simple sin committed by some for short period of time .
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD Of course I would expect them to lead by example. Men fail. I fail. You fail. None of
us always listen to Christ. Do you agree? For those that committed crimes, they will have to
answer to that. I think it was terrible. But you aren't understanding my perspective. I did not
mention the word "simple", in describing their sins. Were the sins of the apostles, such as
turning the Lord Jesus in to be nailed to a cross for some silver, simple sin? I can't think of a
worse sin than this, but Jesus chose Judas to be an apostle. I have asked a few Qs, but you
haven't answered them. Please read back over the last few responses I made and answer the
few Qs. If you won't or can not, we'll never get past where we are right now.
1
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio ...Jesus said in Matthew 7: 15,16 , we can recognize liars and deceptive
religious leaders by their bad fruits . Are child molesting , murdering and torturing of lots of
people by your church priests and popes for long , long period of time not bad fruits to you ?
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD No they are sinful and even bad people. They were never promised they would be
free of sin. With the power of the Spirit of Truth, they are kept from error. As I said before ...
personal sin-less-ness is not what the Lord promised. His promise was to keep his Church in all
truth And your still not answering the few Qs I have asked. By who's authority do you believe
the Bible is the inspired word of God? --- To call that authority ( Catholic Church) a failure, would
be calling Christ a liar & deceiver. That alone would dis-qualify him as your Savior, and would
wrongfully put Him and His Church and your Bible, all in the same "corrupt" category.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD Can you name ONE organization, faith, institution, person, etc. that has
anywhere near the amount fruit the CC has given to the world, bedside's your Holy Bible,
the knowledge of Christ Himself & the hope of your salvation? Go to the link.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/apologetics/what-the-church-
has-given-the-world.html
1
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio It's too early for you to apply Catholic's deviation and diversionary tactics
here , Don't you like to learn first how to recognize and turn away from church leaders who are
liars and deceptive ?
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD You refuse to answer a question, and you accuse me of diversionary tactics? I have
answered everyone of your questions. If I have missed one, answer my questions first and then
we can move on. If not... I give you a tip of the hat and bid you farewell. I encourage you
however to please answer the Qs. I'll then be willing to continue.
1
joeyrocks79
joeyrocks79
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio Leave him alone he is a troll he isn't even a Protestant, just pretending to be
to troll
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+joeyrocks79 Yeah, it took me a while, but your right. I hope he finds a better way to spend his
time.
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio ...You , Catholics ,have nothing to boast as far as the bible you compiled into a
book is concerned . What did you have that you had not received or taken from ? You should
admit or realize you could never have compiled a book called bible had not with the existing
scriptures , letters and holy manuscripts written by the chosen men of God . And one thing more
, you should accept that , with or without the demonic CC or RCC , no man , no force , no
power ,no authority , no group and no thing could ever stop the emergence of the written Word
Of God .
Tae Pak
Tae Pak
2 years ago
+Michelle R Gave his word directly or to the Catholic Saints through the Catholic Church?
joeyrocks79
joeyrocks79
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD What? You sound so bigoted.
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio So where does the Bible say the Bible is the only rule of faith? I don't see it.
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+sylmarmusic2012 Where does the bible say the bible cannot or should not be used as rule of
faith .?
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+sylmarmusic2012 That was my point. It doesn't say it. As a Protestants "sole rule of faith", he
must take the word of and rely completely on the authority of the CC. That CC teaches that it is
not the sole rule of faith, The other rules of faith would be the Church Magisterium and Sacred
Tradition ... along with the Bible.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD It doesn't say that either. It does say that the Apostles instructed followers to believe
whether it be by written letter or word of mouth. The Bible also states that Jesus did much more
than what is contained in a book.
1
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD
It does not have to say what reason itself tells us is error.

The notion that every single person should be free to interpret scripture only leads to a
multitude of contradicting beliefs such as we see among protestants, who all claim it is the
"voice of the Holy Spirit". Really!
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+sylmarmusic2012 Makes you think, "Gee, how many different Holy Spirits might there be!"
1
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio
Exactly! But that doesn't seem to bother our protestant friends.

1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Once again pride rears it's ugly head. Being honest with one's self, re: the Truth, of which there
can only be one of will bring one's self back into the Catholic Church. --- Non-Catholic
Christians ... If you love God deeply, with all your heart & soul, then you would continue to
search for that truth. Being that many of you are still here, indicates to me that you do.
1
Tessa
Tessa
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio I've been harassed by so many anti-Catholic Protestants claiming to be "born
again" in the "Holy Spirit." However, judging by their vitriolic words and behavior, the "spirit"
they claim to have doesn't seem too "holy." Maybe some of them ought to "test that spirit"?
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+Tessa V I can only tell you to that we must be the best Catholic we can be and part of that is
knowing our faith with the right tools to defend it, and ultimately bring more Christians to the
one truth.
1
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
2 years ago
+Tessa V
It's more a spirit of ignorance that they feel. Scripture does not support the heretical Sola
Scriptura doctrine.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+sylmarmusic2012 What worries me is that they are electing to be ignorant and that for them it
is more important to save face or their ego, rather than to challenge themselves in studying
factual Christian history. As Fox Mulder (of X-Files fame) has said, "the truth is out there!" One
needs to be strong enough to look for it however.
2
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
2 years ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio
I agree. And sometimes it really does seem that hating and contradicting the Catholic Church is a
big part of Protestant teaching.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+sylmarmusic2012 Yes, the Sola Scriptura Doctrine is utterly false. A couple of reasons why ... It
can not speak for itself. It is a book full of words. It needs to be proved correct and no non-
Catholic Christian that ever lived could have done what the Catholic Church did, in verifying what
the Holy Bible would consist of. This is why factual Christian History is pertinent. --- Remember,
1Timithy 3:15 ..." if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in
God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."
Not the Bible ...The Church! Also, what did the early Christians use in place of the Bible. The
Bible says that oral teaching was to be used. Christ never told anyone to write a word. Finally, if
Sola Scriptura were legit, their wouldn't be 48,000 different Protestant faiths. It doesn't make
sense that if the Bible is the ''sole of faith" it would mean something different to everyone.
2
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Protestants you can not deny the Church of Rome and believe the Bible is the word of God. You
can't "Throw the baby out with the bath water!" I guarantee that what you despise about
Catholic teaching, is what you do not know or understand.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
+KatherineMacChesney Can you deny the fact that of the 12 Apostles selected by Jesus
Himself ... One turned him in to the authorities to be nailed to a cross, one denied knowing him
3 times on the night before his crucifixion, one had to stick his fingers into his wounds to believe
that they were real, and all but one ran away and hid during the crucifixion for fear that they
would be next. Please respond! --- In addition, you claim the Catholic Church is Pagan? Then so
are the roots of your faith!
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Hi Katherine - May I ask your source for info?
I hope that you stay here, because I have some important questions and comments. First of all,
it's great that you choose to participate. No doubt God has a huge place in your heart. - I never
called Protestants pagans. They were guilty of heresy, however now too many generations have
past and for many, many years the heresy label has been removed, since following generations
were born into Protestantism, thru no fault of their own. (I'll begin new posts @Xs before I lose
them)
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Please explain to me how the 1st 400 yrs. of Christianity survived w/o a completed Bible? How
did the Early Church spread the knowledge of Jesus Christ? Where does the Bible say that it is
the only rule of faith? --- Although the Early Church guarded the Bible and protected it, they did
produce it. Please note however, that before the printing press was invented, every copy of the
Bible had to be hand-copied from another that had to be hand-copied. Try doing that and see
how far you get. I'll bet you would never get past Genesis. BTW the printing press was not
invented until the 16th Century, and note that they had to be built by hand one at a time.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Back then, if I'm not mistaken the Bible as worth an equivelant of $5-600+ today. In addition,
half of the people back then were illiterate. Before you claim that the Bible was chained to a
larger heavier object to keep it out of the peoples hands, please take into account all the above.
It is for a similar reason the phone books are chained to the phone booth. To keep folks from
stealing them.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Your comment "YOUR church refused to publish the Bible because it was afraid it's followers
would discover that it was and IS a pagan, godless, death cult." can be refuted in so many ways.
I'll touch on a couple. #1 remember that 50% did not know how to read! They would not
discover anything by reading and everything by being told in their native tongue. #2 What it
seems you are claiming is that though somehow you believe that the great Church Councils,
including the last one in the 5th Century (Hippo in 493AD) that was gathered for a final
definition of what books would be included, by "Catholic Bishops" mind you are freely believed
by Protestants. Why do Protestants trust in these Catholic Bishops in believing the written
Word? But now despise them. That boggles my mind ... but please explain.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
Finally, until we move on after you answer my questions. Your seemingly purposeful &
disrespectful spelling of the word Pope, is only a sign of frustration and weakness. That is ok
though. Sometimes, when folks begin to feel their world collapse around themselves, they are
entitled (at least by me) to try and hurt others! Anyway, please respond to my Q's.
1
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
2 years ago
+KatherineMacChesney
Where do the scriptures say that the Bible is the only authority? I don't see it. I do however read
that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
2 years ago
1 Timothy 3:15 - if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in
God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
1
Tessa
Tessa
1 year ago
+KatherineMacChesney Catholics do not support the heinous crimes and sins that were
committed by some of the clergy. Pedophilia has been just as much a problem (if not worse) in
other organizations as well as in the protestant world. The sins and/or crimes of some of the
members is not reflective of the Church as a whole. The vast majority of priests are good priests
who are faithful to Christ and are in it for the right reasons, and unfortunately they have to bear
the judgement, humiliation, ridicule, and suspicion caused by the failures of a small number of
them. Just to put this more in perspective, only a small percentage of priests were accused, and
of those accused, an even smaller number were found guilty (I think about 1%). The vast
majority of cases involved post-pubescent victims, not small children. Also the majority of cases
happened between the 1960s-early 1980s, and since then, the Church has made tremendous
effort to prevent sexual abuse and protect minors - measures which are unparalled by any
organization.
Remember too, that the Church is a hospital for sinners.

Should you judge the efficacy of a medication by patients who are not taking it, or abusing it... or
should you judge the efficacy of a medication by those who are taking it according to
prescription and following the doctor's orders?
Rather than judging the Church by those who are failing to follow Christ and live up to the
teachings of the Church, instead, judge the Church by looking at what the Church actually
teaches and by those who do live by teachings of the Church.
This Church has produced countless saints throughout its 2,000 year history, and Jesus Himself
forewarned that tares and wheat would grow side by side within the Kingdom of Heaven. And
even Jesus' own appointed ministry had imperfect men. Peter denied Him, Thomas doubted,
and Judas betrayed Him (and never repented).
Also, Jesus accused the Pharisees of being hypocrites and not living out what they were
preaching... but, what did Jesus then tell His disciples and followers? He commanded them to
obey the Pharisees and do as they say, but not as they do, because although the Pharisees were
not living up to the teachings of they faith, they sat in Moses' seat and still had the authority
from God to teach. Well, Jesus established His Church and set it up with a heirarchial teaching
authority. The Chair of Peter now fulfils the Chair of Moses.
1
Jason Miller
Jason Miller
1 year ago
+KatherineMacChesney Ugh. Please do some research before posting something like this. From
a letter of St. Ignatius written in 110 AD "Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the
people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the Catholic Church." In the Muratorian
Fragment (c. 180), where, for example, it is said of certain heretical writings that they "cannot be
received in the Catholic Church". A little later, Clement of Alexandria speaks very clearly. "We
say", he declares, "that both in substance and in seeming, both in origin and in development, the
primitive and Catholic Church is the only one, agreeing as it does in the unity of one faith"
(Stromata, VII, xvii; P.G., IX, 552). You have been shown that your claims are wrong now. Should
you persist in your false claims, you would thus be baring false witness and commit a serious sin.
1
Jason Miller
Jason Miller
1 year ago
+Tessa V Right on sister. Plus, protestants shouldn't be pointing out the splinter in our eyes,
when they have a log in theirs. According to some data, they have a BIGGER problem with sex
abuse http://shoebat.com/2014/05/06/sexual-abuse-protestant-churches-catholic/
As long as the protestants keep pointing fingers at the Catholics, they will never solve the
problems in their own church. We have implemented so many safeguards from the protection
of children in the last 15 years, that we put most protestant denominations to shame. If they
could admit they have a problem as well, they could do the same.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
1 year ago
It's both amazing & disappointing that so many walk around believing the multitudes of
slanderous lies and misunderstandings regarding the very Church that Jesus Christ founded. -
Non-Catholic Christians, before volunteering your erroneous misinformation ... simply put some
time in researching Church history. The facts always speak for themselves. Doing so with an
open mind & heart, will pave the way for a soul that will be built around truth and in accordance
to what God will & all that he has left for us.
2
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
1 year ago
It is not possible that the Catholic Church was nonexistent at anytime since Christ began
teaching His truths, since this was the very church Christ was establishing for our salvation. What
did not exist were Bibles. Millions of christian martyrs believed, died, and were saved WITHOUT
ONCE READING A BIBLE. They learned the truth through HEARING, not through a personal
interpretation of written scripture.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
1 year ago
+KatherineMacChesney No Katherine, it was the Catholic Church that produced the Bible for
you. If you believe it to be ''Pagan" then your Bible is worthless, thus your entire knowledge of
Christ & all he did for us. I challenge you to be brave enough to seek the truth. Simply use
google Church History, or New Testament, or Early Church Father's quotes. --- As for your 325AD
mention, please give us your source. If you truly love the Lord God, challenge yourself (like I
did). HE IS WORTH IT!!!
1
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
1 year ago
First of all, if you say the Catholic Church is not Christ's true church, you are calling Christ a liar
since he said he would be with his church til the end of the world. What other christian church
existed for all those centuries after Christ and before Protestantism? I'll tell you, none. Secondly,
Christ commanded his disciples to convert all nations from day one and that is exactly what the
Catholic Church did. It was the first church who sent missionaries to all parts of the world. No
other christian church did that until some 1500 years later.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
1 year ago
+KatherineMacChesney No Katherine. Roman Catholics do not, nor never have worshipped
Mary. She is honored by the Church for being the mother of our Lord & Savior. She played a
most important role in God's plan for our salvation. --- I would like to know where you get your
information from. I would also like for you to provide me with any genuine Catholic source, or
link, that states that Catholics worship Mary. Perhaps Catholic's love Mary more than many
Protestants love Jesus, and that is what confuses you.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
1 year ago
+KatherineMacChesney Lot's to cover here. First of all, do you not believe in life after death? I
thought all Protestants did, but evidently, I stand corrected. /// No.2 - No Catholic ever said that
Mary was divine. If you know of any Catholic statement as to this, please post your source (as
you have done so with NOTHING else that I have asked of you). ///3rd.- No Catholic has ever said
she is equal to Jesus Christ! Prove me wrong by posting a link regarding Catholic teaching that
she is. ///4th.- I would think that if you did truly love Jesus and strive to follow him, you would
not name call or disrespect any of God's children as you do above. --- I really don't like spending
all my time defending the Catholic Church against hatred ... I have no problem with
disagreements coming from mature individuals who honestly want to grow closer & closer to
God, by showing love and respect. - So I ask you, please choose a single topic you wish to
discuss respectfully and we can go from there. If it's Mary fine, if it's the statement you make
about killing Christ over & over, etc. or anything else, that's ok, too.. I will be glad to spend the
time necessary with you, but I won't be dragged in to the mud.I'm hoping to hear from you
soon! God Bless.
2
sylmarmusic2012
sylmarmusic2012
1 year ago
+Gabe Pettinicchio
I'm afraid our protestant friend wont be able to put aside his personal hate for the catholic
religion. Hating Catholicism is perhaps the most important part of Protestantism.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
1 year ago
That is not only very sad, but it is very un-Christian-like.
1
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
1 year ago
What I find is funny is that Protestants live off of the Bible and hate the Catholic Church, when
actually the Catholic Church wrote the Bible....
1
Clara Martinez
Clara Martinez
1 year ago
Hi there,
Where can I find the back up for your response, thank you!
I would appreciate the resources.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
1 year ago
Hi Clara. Is your question for me, and if so can you be more specific. Thanks.
Clara Martinez
Clara Martinez
1 year ago
Hello and thank you!
And here is the comment:
"Interestingly, the Catholic "Religion" gave that young man his only rule of faith ... The Bible."
I started learning the history of our access to the bible so when I read your comment, I found an
opportunity to learn more.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
1 year ago
You're very welcome. Clara there are a multitude of sources. In order not to use only Catholic
sources, you can read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon
You can also get much more apologetic info on this from Catholic.com Just do a search. there.
The Catholic Church itself was the only source at the time since Protestantism did not come to
exist until the 16th Century. You may find other differing stories on Prot. websites, but they have
no other verifiable sources other than the ones that come from the Catholic Church. When you
see the names of people (in those times) used in various articles, search them and you will see
that they are were all Catholic Bishops & saints.
I'd be happy to offer help with any questions you might have. Let me know.
1
Clara Martinez
Clara Martinez
1 year ago
Gabe Pettinicchio Thank you! Now I atleast have somewhere I can start you know!
Peace to you and thank you again!
4
Joe Munoz
Joe Munoz
1 year ago
Nuff said.
Caroline
Caroline
11 months ago
Gabe Pettinicchio Protestants and Catholics are same, but Protestants protest too much
richard dawson
richard dawson
11 months ago
Catholics did not 'give' the word. They refused to let anyone read it and it was 'TAKEN' from king
james (an athiest). They actually used to chain the bible down to keep people from taking it.
Fjutis Frank
Fjutis Frank
Catholic "Religion ARE DEVIL WORSHIPPER helped ISLAM TO RISE ROMAN CHATHOLIC MONK
helped MOHAMMED!!! All of you think out side outside the box use your brains!
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
11 months ago
How about we use history? http://www.catholicbible101.com/thecrusades.htm
''To be steeped in history is to no longer be Protestant.'' - Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
11 months ago
Fjutis Frank, I don't think you've read anything about the Catholic Church from a Catholic
perspective. Check out Catholic Online, or Fishing with Dynamite Podcast. They explain
everything the Church teaches in language everyone can understand
Fjutis Frank
Fjutis Frank
11 months ago
Catholic Church are gay people and SUPPORT NWO! i know more then you and catholic people,
look all the exorcism are real in Catholic church.
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
11 months ago
Slow down. You hate the Catholic Church out of ignorance. Do you come to these videos just to
yell at Catholics? It seems that you don't know anything about the Church's teachings. When
you are going to fight against someone or something, you learn their strategies and maneuvers
so that you know how to more effectively fight or argue against them. Read about the Catholic
Church from Catholic sources.
nameunselected
nameunselected
11 months ago
Gabe Pettinicchio and this fact that modern Christianity has the early religion of Catholicism to
thank is a paradox for them
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
11 months ago
What is it for non-Catholic Christians?
Fjutis Frank
Fjutis Frank
11 months ago
I Came my self from Catholic/ortodox religion its enslavement being in the church. All about to
do... its never end, i know what im talking about.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
11 months ago
So you would just rather settle for Protestantism, because it is so much easier? Say Christ is your
Savior, and you're home free. Nevermind, all of those other things that Christ & his disciples
taught. Afterall, Christ did the hard part, huh?
sealed secure
sealed secure
11 months ago
Gabe Pettinicchio ...What did Jesus say the will of His Father is in John 6?
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
11 months ago
He said He WANTED us to be in Heaven with him, not MAKE us
There have been Christians who have murdered people and their excuse is, "Well, I can do what I
want because I'm going to Heaven. Jesus is my PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR. #goinup"
Hitler was baptized into some sort of Christian denomination
Did he go to Heaven?????????????????
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
11 months ago
To make a "good" argument, Protestants copy and paste parts of the Bible together, ignoring the
verses that CLEARLY SHOULD end their arguments
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
11 months ago
Actually, they would chain down the Holy Bible in Churches during the Middle Ages when Bibles
were EXTREMELY HARD to make, as each one was made by hand. They were gilded with silver,
gold and precious gems. The cases that held the Bibles alone would be worth A TON OF MONEY.
To keep people from stealing the Bible and selling it to someone who would desecrate it by
burning it, they would chain it down. Hope this clarifies!
2
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
11 months ago
Yes, and the Bible would then be available for all to use. It was chained the same way
phonebooks were, back in the day. So thieves would not steal them. This answers another
Protestant myth, that 99%+ of Prots do not know. That's is why it is so important to know
history and not to make it up, or repeat the false accusations of others.
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
10 months ago
Exactly what I think Gabe. They either are taught or somehow decide to make an unmanageable
list of problems that they have with Catholicism. And that prevents a person from dealing with
them one by one. And usually the objections can be handled easily one by one if both parties
know the historical facts and the Biblical facts. But seldom can we deal with even one issue
without having five or ten more thrown at us instead of the response on the one.
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
10 months ago
I had an uncle and an aunt, both with PhD's that were hired by Falwell in the 1980s to develop
graduate schools and hire staff. Vandals cut the guy wires on his radio towers and they fell
down. The next morning he was on T.V. asking for money to have them fight the demonic forces.
He raised hundreds of thousands of dollars before the public knew that the towers were fully
insured. At the same time another Uncle of mine with a Doctorate was helping Oral Roberts
develops the "City of Hope Medical Center" in Oklahoma. They built it even though the area was
over supplied with medical centers and teaching hospitals. But an 800 foot Jesus told O.R. to do
it. They soon went broke. It did make for interesting table talk when the two uncles would
argue. One uncle would mention how bad it was for Falwell to sell plats with engraved stones on
liberty mountain for that that gave. The other Uncle would scorn the 800 foot Jesus story. Little
did I know that someday 35 years later I would be a Catholic.
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
10 months ago
Cameron: It seems to defy logic to say a disciple of and co-worker with John like Ignatius of
Antioch does not represent Apostolic Teaching more than a reformer like Calvin or Knox or
Zwingli. Ignatius wrote all of his seven epistles that are recognized as genuine before 110
A.D.......less than 10 years after his friend John died. Yet Ignatius taught the authority of the
Bishop, baptismal regeneration, and the real presence of Christ at the Eucharist. He even used
the word "Katholic" to denote teaching that was Apostolic.
Clement, 3rd Bishop of Rome after Peter wrote his Epistle to the Corinthians probably in 92A.D.
He addressed their divisions and fights. He as bishop of Rome had been sent a letter and been
asked to address the problems in the Church. Part of what he told them was that only the
Properly ordained bishops could administer the Eucharist. Those that were having communion
separate from the church without supervision of properly ordained bishops were having a false
communion. And even as early as 92 A.D. he was claiming the authority of the Bishop of Rome.
And he expected them to obey. This epistle which almost all real scholars recognize as genuine
taught both the Catholic View of the Eucharist and the Primacy of Rome at a very early date.
prairie mark
prairie mark
10 months ago
Cameron: Presbyter,Elder, Bishop and Priest all come from the same Greek word I believe. Even
in the Bible the word Bishop can be used to mean a pastor of one church or sometimes to mean
a Bishop over a number of local churches such as Timothy or Titus. Paul the Apostle told
Timothy and Titus the Bishops to ordain local elders to teach in the local churches. Clearly there
was a hierarchy inn the N.T. Church. Look at the controversy that surrounded the bringing of
Gentiles into the Church. Did the local churches sit around and read the scriptures they had and
pray for guidance and then decided? Nope ...they sent a delegation to Rome to get a written
opinion from the Elders and Apostles. And James the local pastor recommended to the council
that they accept Peter's solution to the problem. Their conclusions were written up and sent
back to the local churches. And their decision was binding both on the Churches and on the
parishioners within the churches. The New Testament Church knew nothing of local church
autonomy. And they did not believe in private interpretation of the scriptures. It was not only
the Early Church Fathers that believed like the Catholics, it was the New Testament Church
recorded in scriptures. Catholics are Biblical People. Fundamentalism is a religion created
much later. I regret I stayed in that variant form of Christianity as long as I did. But I am
thankful I leaned a lot about the Bible (a product of the Catholic Church). I am thankful I learned
about the Trinity (from decisions made at the Council of Nice 325 and the 381 Council at
Constantinoble). I was baptized in the formula of the Catholic Church....in the name of the
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. What I learned that was true was Catholic. What I learned that
was false was Protestant......baptism that was only symbolic, communion that was only symbolic,
self governing Churches, private interpretation by lay people. All these false things were
unknown in the N.T. Church or the Pre-Nicean Church. The religion that believes those things
came later.
Stephen Sampford
Stephen Sampford
You may want to research what became of William Tyndale and at who's hands, and why? You
may also wish to contemplate the Torah and its place in OUR Bible and how and why those
books came into being, before attempting to claim the credit for its miraculous work in the world
for your own Church. 'The Book' cannot be owned and the Word of God is Jeshua, Jesus Christ
who is coming for His people very soon. Now is truely a time, like none other before, for
meekness and great humility before Our Heavenly Father. Peace be with you.
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
10 months ago
NO SUCH THING AS PURGATORY BRUH...
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
10 months ago
Your basing it on what "PEOPLE" say... base it on the Bible.
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
10 months ago
Bro, they're Humans... that's about it. Why do you need to tell them your prayers or ask them to
intercede for us if you could ask Jesus yourself?
sealed secure
sealed secure
10 months ago
Xavier 세이비어 amen
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
10 months ago
Do you pray for other people, or do you go, "WHY NOT GO STRAIGHT TO JESUS, I'M JUST A
HUMAN I CAN'T DO ANYTHING"
1
sealed secure
sealed secure
10 months ago
Sofie Pieschel ..i having read through all of the comments, are you catholic?
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
10 months ago
Ecce Catholico
Sofie Pieschel
Sofie Pieschel
10 months ago
The collection money is NEVER used to buy fancy cars. It's not like we go, "Oh, we just got a
million dollars in the collections from this month. Let's buy Father a Ferrari so that he can make
an impression."
NO!
In fact, my church uses a run down school bus instead of a lot of protestant churches I see who
have fancy buses with their name stamped prominently on their side
2
PockASqueeno
PockASqueeno
9 months ago
"Never" is a strong word. Maybe not at your church, and probably not in most churches, but
there are some mega-churches that have extremely wealthy pastors who drive fancy cars. Sure,
they're in the minority, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
prairie mark
prairie mark
9 months ago
The PreNicean Fathers believed in infant baptismal regeneration, the Real Presence of Christ at
the Eucharist. Their theology was distinctly Sacramental. They knew nothing about baptism that
was merely symbolic. Nor did they believe that communion was only symbolic. Similarly they
did not believe in self-governing Churches or private interpretation of scripture. You could even
look at the Jerusalem Council as a pattern for the early Church government. When the church
had doctrinal controversy about how to receive Gentiles into the Church did they sit around and
read the scriptures and pray and then say "what the Bible means to me?" No. When they had a
doctrinal question they sent a delegation to Jerusalem to inquire of the Apostles and Elders.
They were sent a written response that was binding on both the local Pastors and the individuals
within the Church.
The question that faced me when I was a fundamentalists was why the early Church was so
much like the Catholic Church and so much unlike the North American Fundamentalists. It is
historic truth that this is true. A person can try as hard as they want but they cannot make the
early Fathers believe like the fundamentalist Protestants, but it cannot be done. Their body of
literature is too broad and too clear on what they believed to do it without being intellectually
dishonest. I struggled with that fact for years. Eventually I had to admit it or else I had to be
intellectually dishonest. It was as simple as that. That Apostolic Fathers believed far more like
the Catholics than like the evangelicals or fundamentalists is a historical fact. The
fundamentalist teachers I had either said the early church became apostate or else we
misunderstood their writings or else their writings were fake. None of the three positions can be
held without being intellectually dishonest. Clement and Ignatius actually knew the Apostles.
Possibly Martyr did too. Ignatius's extant epistles were written within ten years of the writing of
Revelation and he had been the Bishop at Antioch since about 70 A.D. Evodius had been the
bishop there before Peter from about 63 A.D till Ignatius took over. Before that Peter founded
the Church. There simply was not time for them to become apostate after the Apostles died and
before Catholic teaching emerged. Catholic teaching is clearly there back to and including the
Apostolic era. I denied that for decades but eventually I became convinced that God is not
honored by intellectual dishonesty.
1
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
9 months ago
What a great comment, Mark. Welcome home!
AMH's Tech Talk
AMH's Tech Talk
9 months ago
This man sure would have hated the apostle Paul. I never could get an answer for Titus 3:5 or
Romans 4:5 or Eph 2:8-9 or anything that Paul wrote to Christians and not Tribulation Jews. I was
a devoted Catholic till about the age of 20 when someone opened a king james bible and
showed me the Gospel of Jesus. To the preist here, the religious people ( Pharisees and
Sadducees) hated Jesus too.
Nik Kingman
Nik Kingman
9 months ago
no, the prophets gave us the bible.
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
9 months ago
Oh, ok, then tell us about it. Just a quick recap of what you think happened. Who were the
prophets and how was the Bible formulated?
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
9 months ago
Lets see if he can say how the Bible was formulated without mentioning the selection of books
to be in the New Testament (God used the Catholic Church). And can he do it without the
preservation and copying of the early manuscripts (God used the Catholic Church)? But as
important as anything how can he interpret the Bible without the guidance of the early Church
Fathers, the Creeds, and the pattern of belief left by the Church? Will he come up the the same
understanding of scriptures as what the early Church received from the Apostles? That being
baptismal regeneration, the Real Presence of Christ at the Eucharist, and the Authority of the
Bishops?
Gabe Pettinicchio
Gabe Pettinicchio
9 months ago
He is probably long gone now. He'll reappear challenging the CC on another subject stated on
this video. This is what worries me, though. Will these folks seek the truth after realizing they
have been wrong? Will they place God above their preconceived beliefs & methods of worship,
or will they refuse to admit they have been wrong?
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
9 months ago
The Holy Spirit guided people as they wrote the books. (New Testament)
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
9 months ago
What's hard with you, is that you always think your Church is right. The Church is us and God is
in the Center.
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
9 months ago
We ask the Holy Spirit to help us understand.
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
9 months ago
If you're wondering what Christian I am, I am a Born Again Christian.
Xavier Soriano
Xavier Soriano
9 months ago
There are stuff we don't have to explain anymore, most of which we can't comprehend as
humans. If you keep debating here on who's right, it would never stop.
2
prairie mark
prairie mark
Xavier said: The Holy Spirit guided people as they wrote the books. (New Testament)
You are very right Xavier. God guided the people who made the Bible. Both the people who
wrote it, the prophets and apostles AND the people who decided what books should be in the
New Testament. Those that chose the books were part of the Catholic Church.
Many things we cannot understand about the Christian life. But how the Bible came to be is
well documented. God did not hand a completed Bible to his followers when Christ died. He
used the Church to preserve the manuscripts, copy them and also to decide which should be
included in the Bible. Paul says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth.
2
agntamiko27
agntamiko27
7 months ago
Jesus IS the Word of God made flesh. And Jesus CHOSE His disciples who after discipleship were
promoted to Apostles. None of the apostles were gentiles nor were they Roman! So GOD is
very selective about who HE anoints to do HIS work. And I don't recall any sect of "religion"
being chosen by Jesus while HE walked this earth. In fact, it was the religious leaders of that
time who crucified HIM. Jesus answers all who call on Him with purity of heart and this is not
contingent upon the Catholic church nor any man-made doctrine. SEE Matthew 13:24-30,
Matthew 16:11-12, 2 Peter 3:14-18, 1 John 4: 1-6, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, 1 Timothy 4:3 and many
more.
1
prairie mark
prairie mark
7 months ago
You don't have to use the word "Catholic." You can call it "Historic Christianity" if you want. It is
the faith of the Apostles and the early Church.
Ricky Pasco
Ricky Pasco
2 months ago
God didnt give anything to the Catholic Church. Catholics arent even gods chosen people, the
jewish are. God gave the bible to the people. Catholics adopted the bible and used it for their
own means. The bible catholics use isint even the one true bible. God bless and check your facts
before you quote it as historical truth.
Ricky Pasco
Ricky Pasco
2 months ago
Also, after reading all of your comments to others in this post, the young man this video is about
directly speaks of people like you. Those who ruin religion and faith. Who corrupt religious
intuitions. You cannot tell people they are or are not correct and wrong for the things they do or
believe. Thats not your place. Nor your duty. You were not there when the word of god was
delivered to man, nor were you alive when jesus was alive. You are going based off of faith. NOT
TRUTH. Other's faith is just as valid as yours, just because you read it out of a book that is
supposedly from god. Does not make it true.
Crypto Girl
Crypto Girl
2 months ago
they were not catholic
Crypto Girl
Crypto Girl
2 months ago
false again there is no mention 0 000000000.000000 metion of purgatory anywhere in the bible!
Greyson Adler
Greyson Adler
1 month ago
Interestingly, God gave us the Bible, and people were the ones to discover it and put it together.
Roochka
Roochka
2 years ago
The video being reviewed in this one, is actually an argument against empty legalism, not
religion, even though Jefferson calls it that and empty legalism is a common charge evangelicals
bring against Catholics. I'm Orthodox, not catholic and I do believe that he makes some decent
points. He's basically long-windedly reminding us not to be Pharisees.
15
Han Solo's walking carpet
Han Solo's walking carpet
10 months ago
NovelistVampireGirl Amen
Dave Barlow
Dave Barlow
2 months ago
That's what I took it to mean
1
Jordyn Connell
Jordyn Connell
3 years ago
Forgive me, it's not my place at all. But is asking Jesus to have a relationship with him not
simple? It may be hard to be a Christian, but it is simple. Love God, love his people, and believe
his word. Live in a way that reflects this. Loving God has changed my heart and I naturally want
to follow him. Does everything have to be made complicated by "smarter" men with titles and
degrees? It's like "Only a few of you can be a Christian because you know the rules and you don't
make too bad of mistakes so your sins are easier to forgive". "The rest of you the go back to the
holes you crawled out of, you're making us look bad". Reminds me of the religious leaders that
put Jesus to death because he didn't fit with the institution they had created. I'm not a very
smart person, and I'm very young, but I love God so much and I'm surrounded by people in my
generation who're changed by him everyday and it's not always happening in church buildings!
It's happening on the streets and among the broken, in the middle of a song, in places we'd least
expect. I'm rarely touched in my church building by my preacher in his robes with his fancy bible
and seminary experience. I respect him and I know he loves The Lord. But I guess when people
gathered to hear Jesus speak, the church was at it's most authentic. Now "the church" is a place
people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. We seem to forget we take the church with us
wherever we go.
21
Tad Whitty
Tad Whitty
2 years ago
+Jordyn Connell while no one should disagree with the point that faith starts with an encounter
with Jesus, we cannot say that Love doesn't have rules and principles we must live by. Jesus is
the truth; in His word, we are told that Jesus was founding a church. This church we are told by
the disciple of St. John the Apostle (ignatius of antioch in 105 ad) is called the Catholic church.
Now you are right, we ought to be in relationship with Christ - we meet him in the Sacraments of
the catholic church, where He himself comes to us.
1
Lou Zerpa
Lou Zerpa
2 years ago
+Jordyn Connell I think you are complicating things with your simplistic view. Your case is one of
less is not more. A relationship with Jesus is not simple at all. It requires a lot of work for humans
to try to live to Jesus' teachings. Many of us fail at it everyday. That is the truth. But it is very
complicated, and drying that is just trying to omit the work one has to place in order to try and
improve.
1
Paul Pace
Paul Pace
2 years ago
+Jordyn Connell Well said Jordyn! A lot of it has to do with time. Over time, words do not have
the same meaning and they become rote. (See Isaiah 29)
The Lord said:
Because these people draw near with their mouths
and honor me with their lips,
while their hearts are far from me,
and their worship of me is a human commandment learned by rote;
14 so I will again do
amazing things with this people,
shocking and amazing.
The wisdom of their wise shall perish,
and the discernment of the discerning shall be hidden.
You also might like a guy I listen to named Dan Mohler. It's some serious gospel. Jesus died so
that our flesh would be crucified on that cross, so that God could get in us and in the church. It's
always been both. But the gospel is always about transformation.
1
Donna Velazquez
Donna Velazquez
1 year ago
Jordyn Connell we do not need a building full of people telling us what God expects from us all
we need is our Bible to find every answer to our questions. Remember Jesus said when there
are 2 or mor speaking my name I am present? He didn't say we need a building.
Jordyn Connell
Jordyn Connell
1 year ago
+Donna Velazquez Exactly haha. I didn't say we needed a building at all. I said the opposite in
fact. I've encountered God many places outside of a "building", as I said before. Having made
this comment 2 years ago I don't necessarily still agree with every little word I wrote. However
like I said in 2015, "we seem to forget we take the church with us wherever we go". Which
completely stands true according to what you said in reply.
Black Rocket
Black Rocket
1 year ago
Donna , so why did God have Solomon build the temple. .
buzztrucker
buzztrucker
8 months ago
Of course there is conversion in street preaching and ministry, but when made whole wouldn't
you want to stay that way? I for one would want to be in God's house where he nourishes me
with his Word and his body broken for me (sacraments) to administer his continual grace. The
Church preaches the Gospel. The Gospel is scandalous and a stumbling block for many....it does
make many feel uncomfortable and yes maybe even unwelcome. The unwelcome attitude is
probably the sin that's unwelcome that the person knows they are harboring or holding back
amidst the mystical body of Christ.
beegeefan4ever
beegeefan4ever
6 months ago
It is very biblical to worship God together in a building as "The Body of Christ" In fact, Jesus
spent much of His time in a "building" (called a temple)..He actually calls the building "His
Father's house" So I guess if we want to do what Jesus asks, we need to gather together in our
"buildings"(churches)
Arin Richardson
Arin Richardson
5 months ago
You sound very smart and wise to me I agree with u a hundred percent
1
Josiah. M
Josiah. M
4 months ago
I agree. But the "church" isn't a building, the church is the believers in Christ.
1
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
4 months ago
"Religious leaders that put Jesus to death, because he didn't fit with the institution they had
created."Jesus was the author of their religion. Read the book of Leviticus. Jesus Christ was a
religious Jew who followed His religion to a "T." He was against the hypocrisy of the
Pharisees.Matthew 23:2-3 Jesus said "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat; therefore
whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works;
for they say and do not do."Also, nowhere in the old testament is the chair of Moses decreed. It
was a later Jewish tradition that Jesus accepted, because it did not nullify the word of God.
Michael Greenan
Michael Greenan
3 months ago
Life is complicated, not simple. Authentic spirituality is not overly simplistic. Just look at the
mystery of the trinity--one God in three persons; or the mystery of the incarnation--Jesus is fully
God AND fully human. I'm glad you have a relationship with the Lord, but just because you
began that way doesn't mean it ends that way. We have to keep our relationships growing with
Jesus, which means not having prejudice against religion or churches or academics. Even Jesus
said he came establish his Church, and the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.
A96B6
A96B6
2 months ago
It is simple. I don't care who's opinion is right or makes more sense. Love God, read his word,
and enter the best relationship you will ever have through Jesus Christ by grace through faith.
Amen. When I see Jesus ill ask him about this video or another, who was right? Did it even
matter? What will He say?
Thomas Thomas
Thomas Thomas
2 months ago
Dear A96B6, you are correct. It is simple, especially when you read His word and enter the best
relationship in Jesus through faith by grace; however, I find that there are great and wonderful
consequences to such action. First of all, when you come to Christ, you enter into the body of
Christ which consists of His Church of which He is the head as stated in Ephesians 2:19-21
"......but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God. Having been built
on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ, Himself being the chief
cornerstone."Let's not forget in Hebrews 12:22-24 "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the
city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the
general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God, the judge of
all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus, the Mediator of the new covenant"
.........Coming to Jesus Christ was never taught as me and Jesus alone, at least not by the real
Church that was founded by the apostles.Acts 2:42, "And they continued steadfastly in the
apostle's doctrine and fellowship, in breaking of bread and prayers.
Hebrews 10:24 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of
some" .....1 Peter 5:5 "Likewise, you younger people, submit yourselves to your
elders/presbyters (Greek: presbuteros which is synonymous with priest)."The Catholic Church
has the unbroken line of bishops which lead all the way back to the apostles. To be steeped in
history is to cease being protestant. I, myself, am a revert to the Church after much research and
prayer. Ponder this: The bible was not canonized until approximately 392 AD. No one could
afford a papyrus bible which would have cost three year's wages. Many were illiterate. The
printing press did not come about until the late 1400's. How did Christianity spread and become
the dominant religion of the world?
Dee-Andra Webley
Dee-Andra Webley
2 years ago
It's called Spoken Word Poetry. To me, the poem was not bashing christianty in the context of a
relationship with Jesus Christ but rather bashing the empty laws that people tend to idolize,
which corrupted religion in Jesus' time on Earth AND now. A lot of people hold fullfilling the
'rules' of christianity higher than having an actual relationship with Christ.This in my mind
creates a gulf between them and God that until they can step away from laws, rules, protocols,
sacred objects/people and make christianity a walk with God in and through your life, guided by
the Bible, will never be crossed. Dare i say that the Bible IS sacred and true, but also a history
textbook and life manual. I think it is possible to idolize the Bible.
19
Patrick Cassidy
Patrick Cassidy
2 years ago
Very interesting video! It's very popular with people around my age to use the Catholic Church as
a pristine example of why "religion" is bad. One of the best statements that I said back was the
following, "The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years and has had its share of
corruption (like shooting fish in a barrel, as you said). But, would you be able to find any other
institution, government or nation that is comparable and has not had to deal with corruption?
Even the United States in it's 200+ years of existence has plenty of examples of corruption and
bad decisions (exile of Native Americans, slavery, etc...). The church is run by humans and it's
going to make mistakes, but the church has done more good in this world in Jesus' name than
many care to give credit for. God bless!
14
Redharvest10
Redharvest10
2 years ago
This priest is awesome!
14
Michael Rex
Michael Rex
1 year ago
+Redharvest10
He is a Bishop now, actually. (sorry for this if his Consecration was after you posted your
comment, but I don't think it was)
1
Redharvest10
Redharvest10
1 year ago
its alright i did find out that he was a bishop later on though ^^;
1
Caroline
Caroline
11 months ago
Redharvest10 he is a bishop
Joshua
Joshua
6 months ago
Just Another Child Of SATAN, you think he's awesome go to HELL with him.
Αμερικανός Πατριώτης
Αμερικανός Πατριώτης
2 months ago
Joshua Kennedy wow
aughalough1
aughalough1
Joshua, "I'd rather be an unknown here, and have my name up there."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ejaw0F8-sY
sstroh08
sstroh08
1 week ago
Joshua Friend, if you don't get that hatred out of your heart, I fear that may be the direction
you're headed yourself. I don't know of course. I have no right to judge you. Only God does. But
what you said above sounds like something satan himself would say.
Christopher Workman
Christopher Workman
3 years ago
On another note, I would like to thank you for posting these videos. You have very keen insights,
and I have been learning a lot from them. Your videos have helped me grow much deeper in my
faith and my resolve to convert to the Roman Catholic Church, so I am truly thankful.
13
Lou Zerpa
Lou Zerpa
2 years ago
+Christopher Workman Here here. I feel the same way.
eric lee
eric lee
1 year ago
the answer i got was the mob was lying to Jesus but that would make john who wrote that story
a lire to not state that important fact dose that the mob was lying dose not seem logical why
hide that fact more like people justifying their belief why would god create logic and reason
contradict it and then punish you for the contradiction
Daniel Campa
Daniel Campa
2 years ago
PEOPLE JUST LOOK T THE HISTORY !! Jesus started the CATHOLIC CHURCH, why do you think he
told peter to start/continue it. I've personally questioned my faith many times, but at the end of
the day history is history and facts are facts!
11
jpnoobie
jpnoobie
2 years ago
+Daniel Campa God created lucifer too- does that mean satan is doing what God wanted him to?
wake up for you and your families sake- better yet, for Christ's sake
1
jpnoobie
jpnoobie
2 years ago
+Daniel Campa also, what history? you clearly havent read up much on the way the catholic
church started. re-read it from everybody elses account of history. rome changed things up quite
a bit. check out- the THRONE in the vatican, richest institution in the world, telescope named
lucifer...clearly what Jesus is all about..thats sarcasm. ill pray for all of us
2
Michael Rex
Michael Rex
1 year ago
+jpnoobie
Christ created the Church (St. Matt. 16:18), and the Bible calls the Church the Pillar and
Foundation of the Truth (1 Tim. 3:15), against which Christ promised the gates of hell would not
prevail (St. Matt. 16:18 again). Who is not for Christ is against Him (St. Matt. 12:30), and who is
against Christ is against the Truth, since Christ is the Truth (St. John 14:6); therefore, the Church
cannot loose the Faith.
As for the historical authenticity of the Holy Catholic Church, you need only read the writings of
the early Saints. Adversus Haereses Book III, Chapter 3, Paragraph 2 is a good place to start.
By the way, "Lucifer" is Latin for "light-bringing". In addition to being applied to Satan (I beg to
point out both before as well as after the fall), it is also applied to the moon and the morning
star (guess Who is called the Morning Star?).
If you have any substantive argument against the Church, I am more than happy to discuss it
with you; but thus far, you have not provided any such evidence.
5
Derek Handson
Derek Handson
1 week ago
Daniel Campa I'm Catholic too. I've had Protestants tell me differently but I always keep coming
back. God keeps answering me.
fusger Snabble
fusger Snabble
2 years ago
If you loved the Father you wouldn't be trying to convert Spirit filled born again Protestants
15
2 years ago
+fusger Snabble Why not? I want to bring good Christians to the fullness of truth.
77
fusger Snabble
fusger Snabble
2 years ago
If a man is filled with and living by the Holy Spirit what more does he need? I am in the process
of uniting Pastors throughout the world. As I meet with pastors I can tell which ones have the
Holy Spirit and those who don't because our spirits are one. In the last 7 years the Holy Spirit
has been speaking to many Baptists, Assembly of God, Nazarene and others about unity. These
men have no need of what their descendants fought and died to escape out of. The good news
for the Catholics is that many are hearing also from the Holy Spirit and it for the first time in
opposition to that coming out of the Vatican: there is a problem with your pope. If you truly
seek Christ you will acknowledge this. The Catholic Church is about to crack in half.....The King is
coming. Have you ever wondered if he is as anxious about seeing us as we are about seeing
Him?
3
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
2 years ago
+fusger Snabble You say that you "meet with pastors [and] can tell which ones have the Holy
Spirit and those who don't because our spirits are one." That sounds vaguely Gnostic. You imply
that YOU can judge whether someone has the Holy Spirit or not. I'm not sure that's a valid
assertion. It would mean somehow you're set up as the judge over people you meet and can
dismiss them as "pagans" if they don't simply agree with your ideas of religion.
14
Rudolf Feindler
Rudolf Feindler
2 years ago
+fusger Snabble
I have never before read such an absolute nonsense! Catholics are hearing about the Holy Spirit
for the first time? I am a 78 year old Catholic and one of the first things I learnt was about the
Holy Trinity and the activities of the Holy Spirit. It is in preparation for the Sacrament of
Confirmation that Catholic children are taught about and prepared for the reception of the Holy
Spirit. We don't have any problems with our popes but 'Christians' like you are an evil to
Christianity. Folks like you love to spread lies and are filled with ignorance!
18
joeyrocks79
joeyrocks79
2 years ago
+Bishop Robert Barron Amen Brother! :D
5
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Rudolf Feindler ....According to Jesus , His flock always listened to His voice . Since you ,
Catholics , claimed you are the flock being referred to , could you tell us how your popes and
priests listened to His Voice while they were murdering and torturing lots of people during long
years of RCC Inquisition ?
1
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD I guess you're being misled by the Judas effect. You know, Our Lord and Savior chose
TWELVE apostles to follow him. 1/12 of them turned out to be thieves and traitors and betrayed
Him and sent Him to His death. (Not to mention the 11/12 of them who deserted Him at the
cross.)
So if Jesus Himself picks a loser in His original draft, why do you insist that ALL successors to the
apostles be perfect? After all, even St. Paul admits that nobody is perfect, even him. And he's a
preeminent apostle in Protestant circles.
The Inquisition is a whole 'nuther question. You should read some legitimate history on the
inquisitions and find out the truth. The torture and executions everyone harps on were 1) not all
as common and numerous as Church haters claim, 2) the Church wasn't in charge of most of
that, secular governments were, and 3) the phenomenon was a part of the time. Of course, it's
not an excuse to say "everybody did it" but it gives you some insight as to what people were
doing and whether you can justly condemn everyone for being born at the wrong time.
Yes, the Church listens to His voice. Guided by the Holy Spirit the successors to the Apostles and
their flock follow the teachings of Jesus and try hard to do what He wants us to do. After all, He
told us that if we love Him, we will keep the Father's commandments. The apostles recorded
that fact and canonized it into the Bible.
Pax tecum.
Joe P.
7
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Joe Pastorek So if you were already born during Inquisition times , you would never have
expectation that your leaders of the RCC that was built by Christ , had the power of binding &
loosing and holder of keys of Heaven should lead by example and should not commit even little
number of crimes and atrocities even for short period of time ?
How about when they were countless , monstrous and executed continuously for long , long
years of time ?
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD You can have expectations. That doesn't change the truth. We had expectations that
Jesus' twelve Apostles would be good and faithful leaders and lead good lives. Then there was
Judas and all the failures of the other 11 (except maybe John). The facts are often not up to our
expectations, but that's only because the Church on earth is made of humans and humans are
usually not perfect, no matter how hard they try. But try they must and try they will, with help
from the grace of God.
Oh, by the way, the Protestant hero Luther, often describes as the best since St. Paul, admitted
himself that he was a TERRIBLE sinner and recommended every one sin with boldness. That's
quite opposite what Paul and the other Apostles said. They said they tried NOT to sin and you
should try hard too.
Mater Dei, ora pro nobis.

3
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Joe Pastorek Wake up , we are not talking on simple & small sins / crimes here .
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD I only repeat--Judas' crime was NOT small or simple. The Church on earth is made up
of humans who sin. That doesn't mean the Holy Spirit doesn't guide the Church itself to do the
job Jesus left it with.
I pray for you, who have ears but cannot hear and eyes but cannot see.
Deus tecum.
7
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Joe Pastorek Are you moronic ? Don't you realize what Judas did was considered a part of
salvation plan of God ? Don't you notice Judas received almost no blame at all in the bible . ?
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD When you resort to name-calling, you've declared yourself.
You also obviously don't know your Bible. Jesus Himself convicted him.
Matthew 26:20 When evening came, he sat down with his twelve disciples, 21 and, while they
were at table, he said, Believe me, one of you is to betray me. 22 They were full of sorrow, and
began to say, one after another, Lord, is it I? 23 He answered, The man who has put his hand into
the dish with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man goes on his way, as the scripture foretells of
him; but woe upon that man by whom the Son of Man is to be betrayed; better for that man if
he had never been born. 25 Then Judas, he who was betraying him, said openly, Master, is it I?
Jesus answered, Thy own lips have said it.
It is my considered opinion that if you tell someone it would be better had they never been born
than to do what they were planning to do, that's blame.
Reign your emotions in, Bluebird, and do some soul-searching and reading. The truth will set you
free.
Mater Dei, ora pro nobis pecatoribus.
P.S. And as far as the salvation plan of God, sure. God always has something good come out of
our evil actions. That's how it works. If you think that the ends justify the means, you're not
particularly orthodox in your thinking. Personally, I like to use Judas and this story. I call it the
Judas Paradox. Judas does something terribly evil, yet it's part of God's plan and results,
ultimately, in the salvation of the world. Pretty neat how God works, isn't it?
6
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Joe Pastorek. I did not say Judas received no blame at all but "ALMOST received no blame at all
" for his betrayal of Jesus . What I meant is that I heard no significant and widespread
condemnation , blame and indignation against him from Christendom ever since , historically
and biblically .
Based on your reasoning , it is still understandable , excusable and acceptable should the
Apostles & Disciples of Christ were the ones who committed such lengthy & monstrous crimes
and atrocities of yours during the Inquisitions .
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD You miss the whole point. Isn't "being a Judas" a phrase in our language--indeed, in
many languages--to this day? What do you mean there's no widespread condemnation of Judas?
He's been renounced publicly for 2000 years!
Nobody said that abuses by the religious is "excusable or acceptable." What I said was, the
physical Earthly Church is made of humans who are sinners. None of them is perfect--some
much worse than others. That doesn't mean THE CHURCH is wrong. Jesus promised that the
Holy Spirit, the Advocate, the Paraclete, would come after He left and guide the Church. The
Church would be a light to the world and the Gates of Hell would not prevail against it.
So just like Jesus had a bad apple in His immediate followers, so the Church has bad apples and I
presume always will. That doesn't invalidate Jesus' teachings and it doesn't invalidate the
Church's teachings.
Dominum Nostrum Iesum Christum miserere nobis!

5
BLUEBIRD
BLUEBIRD
2 years ago
+Joe Pastorek You are missing everything . How and when to apply what Jesus said " By their
fruits , you will know them " I'm leaving this now to you . All you have to do is open your eyes "to
know them". May I just add you should know how to distinguish what is big , what is small - what
is monstrous , what is little - what is long , what is short - what is leader , what is layman - what
are true & right , what are false & wrong - what is bias , what is neutral .and what is tolerable ,
what is intolerable .
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
2 years ago
+BLUEBIRD The implicit operative phrase underlying all of that is "to Bluebird." YOU are the
judge of all of what you're talking about. That's the error of the Devil. Narcissism or ego or
whatever you want to call it.
The Church--established by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit--is the judge here. Your opinion
of what is "intolerable" isn't really the issue, although from what I can glean t's apparently the
only thing important to you.
Pax tecum.
3
Jeffrey Galeski
Jeffrey Galeski
2 years ago
+fusger Snabble for 1500 years he tried so its doubtful the Catholic church will fall. for most of us
will die for the Truth of our beliefs before that.
3
Thomas Marabella
Thomas Marabella
1 year ago
Are you born again your way, or the bible way?
5
Instrumento de Dios Elvin Pinto
Instrumento de Dios Elvin Pinto
1 year ago
Joe Pastorek have you ever heard about the gift of discerning of spirits?
fusger Snabble
fusger Snabble
1 year ago
The RCC church was build by men not Christ. Today the Pope has become a heretic most
Catholics I know in the US are really worried about the Catholic Church and what is to become of
it many are considering forming their own groups
1
Joe Pastorek
Joe Pastorek
1 year ago
fussier Snabble,
You should broaden your cast and find some devout Catholics, not quasi-heretics or
"traditionalists" or whatever. In fact, Bishop Barron is a good one to start with. But then, you just
argue with him, so I guess you won't hear good Catholics, only the others.
It's long been a practice of the mainstream media that "The only good Catholic is a bad
Catholic." I'm sure that's operative here.
Pax Domini sit semper te cum!

Joe P.
ChiliDoggone3D
ChiliDoggone3D
10 months ago
How is one born again?
Richard Grayson
Richard Grayson
9 months ago
fusger Snabble yes he would because they are in error.
Ashlind Price
Ashlind Price
3 months ago
Bishop Robert Barron Can they be saved without being Catholic or do they need to be
Catholics??
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
3 months ago
fusger Snabble Same profession of faith mormons proclaim
Darth Vader
Darth Vader
1 month ago
The Roman Catholic Church is certainly inspired by the Roman Empire, heck July is named after
Julius Cesar!
Darth Vader
Darth Vader
1 month ago
Joe Pastorek I'm a Catholic but the Church certainly is involved in the Inquisition!
Darth Vader
Darth Vader
1 month ago
Joe Pastorek So what if Judas didn't betray Jesus would we all go to Hell? Because if Judas didn't
betray Jesus, Jesus wouldn't be crucified so what then,would we all go to Hell?
Darth Vader
Darth Vader
1 month ago
Ashlind Price All can be SAVED by just BELIEVING in Jesus Christ!
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
fusger Snabble "I can tell which ones have the Holy Spirit and those who don't because our
spirits are one"
Are are devoid of the New Testament, those not in communion with the Church are not one as
Paul stressed, your statement is biased, non-historical, non-biblical
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
BLUEBIRD You read the Holy Scriptures but do not understand, Jesus said: "You worship what
you do not know, we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews"
"practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don't follow their example. For they don't
practice what they teach"
Jesus did not depart from his Jewish faith, He only magnified it
Do the same, do not disregard Christs words
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 month ago
Darth Vader "All can be SAVED by just BELIEVING in Jesus Christ!
Here is a true protestant/restorist denominational, you are "sola-scriptura" yet ironically you are
unaware of what the New Testament states in its entierty
BAD10703
BAD10703
1 week ago
Joe Pastorek
Jesus was fulfilling His plan when He chose Judas. Jesus never made a mistake......never
1
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
Cuauhtli Xesutzin
1 week ago
Darth Vader The Church is
Faith and works
NotYourOrdinary
NotYourOrdinary
1 year ago
Thanks for doing a video on this. I'm Greek Orthodox & I visited a non-denominational church &
they kept saying, "It's not about the religion its about the relationship!" So I asked this preacher
afterwards "What do you think religion is?" & he ended up saying stuff within the church,
communion, baptism, etc.
& I said, "Religion is something as a whole. Christianity, Islam, etc. Jesus came to have a
relationship within Christianity. The practices of the church is on what he taught his followers."
& this guy turned on me saying, "Do you think your church is a religion?"
He was clearly missing the point & I looked for a youth group to hang with elsewhere.
9
Josiah. M
Josiah. M
4 months ago
Jesus didn't come to have a relationship within Christianity, but to have a relationship with us. All
the 'sacraments' I'm not against the catholic church. I'm against legalism just like the dude in the
video.
Emperor Titus
Emperor Titus
Nice commentary Fr. Robert Barron. I'll be at mass this Sunday.
8
Vertical Horizon
Vertical Horizon
2 years ago
+Happy Lion It's useless, but knock yourself out.
Joshua
Joshua
6 months ago
We Serve Mass in HELL for you Bastards.
JANHOI MCCALLUM
JANHOI MCCALLUM
2 years ago
+Fr. Robert Barron Just in case you were curious the name of the spoken word artist in this video
is Jefferson Bethke. And in subsequent videos he has done he clarifies that he did not mean to
jettison the entire Christian tradition. In fact even though he is an Evangelical Christian he is
quite ecumenical in his views of other Christian traditions like Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy,
etc and on numerous occasions he speaks about the importance of the body of Christ. He also
speaks out against a individualistic, and reductionist view of salvation and religious life which is
prevalent in some forms of evangelical Christianity. And he has a youtube channel. I think you
should check him out a little more, because I think his views on this subject were misinterpreted.
8
Tad Whitty
Tad Whitty
2 years ago
+JANHOI MCCALLUM wrote: I think you should check him out a little more, because I think his
views on this subject were misinterpreted.
ME: i think he made comments that he realized were not quite either what he believed, or what
he intended to convey. blaming others for taking his posts at his word won't undo those errors,
or clarify them. Fact check is that bethke himself could have removed the original post if he felt it
was not accurate of his position; he enjoyed the popularity. Be ecuministic (i.e. willing to chat
with other faith groups about their faith) doesn't mean he didnt state clearly what his own
position was.
1
Michael Farah
Michael Farah
2 years ago
Very well said, Fr. Robert. God bless you! :)
5
Antnj81
Antnj81
Yes, Jesus did come not to change the law, but rather to FULFILL the law. What this means is that
- since the standard previous to His birth, was that all should follow the law without fail, which
was an impossible feat - Jesus needed to come to earth, be tempted by everything temptation,
and resist them all, so that after his death and resurrection, we could be clothed in HIS
righteousness and be cover in the veiled of his perfect walk. This is why Jesus wasn't born and
immediately sacrificed - he needed to not only display the new covenant through actions, but
also live a perfect.
Paul talks about those that still try to follow the law and says that "Jesus is of no use to them".
For those of us that trust is Christ's perfection, as well as His death & resurrection, God no longer
sees our sin or flaws, he only sees Jesus and his perfection. There is nothing we can do to earn it
or make it happen apart from accepting Jesus as Savior
religion complicates the faith process by adding a "doing element" to the equation - ie. good
works, pennants, and ritualistic ceremony. Sometimes when we do and say the same things, it
can easily become an act of repetition and the place where we put our faith. Over time, spiritual
faith wanes because it isn't needed any longer.
I know a lot of people that put a heavier importance on their church going/devotion rather than
just Jesus... this is what happens when you introduce an action or tangible concept into faith. It's
the human condition to gravity towards the easy road, as opposed to simply believing in an
invisible God without your actions intervening - that is a true test of faith, imo
8
PAT ALEX
PAT ALEX
2 years ago
THANKS BISHOP BARRON
5
Summerafternoon
Summerafternoon
2 years ago
Another wonderful video. Thank you Father Barron.
5
Sebastian Ramirez
Sebastian Ramirez
4 years ago
why cant we all just love
5
FaithandReason101
FaithandReason101
4 years ago
that is what the catholic church teaches...
9
Lou Zerpa
Lou Zerpa
2 years ago
+Julia White That is what the CC teaches, what Jesus teaches.
Ricky Pasco
Ricky Pasco
2 months ago
The reason? Religion.
1
Ricky Pasco
Ricky Pasco
2 months ago
Tell that to the gays.
1
EVANGELIST Daniel Torres
just like a catholic to lie. Religion was actually condemned in the Holy Bible, which they know
nothing about, and the religious leaders were condemned as well. Let us not forget that Jesus
said they will good works in His name and He will say depart from me for I never knew you. Lets
also read the Gospel and we see He only taught faith and never taught religion. The Gospel says
its by Grace we are saved, and that the Church is not a physical building made of bricks and
stones, but made up of true believers of Christ, the Body of Christ or Bride are two of the names
given to this non physical building and being. Never did Jesus condemn faith, only condemned
religion. Religion is nothing but man using his good deeds trying to reach heaven. Christianity,
which isn't a religion, is the understanding that its through faith and the grace of God.
Also this guy is living a lie, land of the free? The only free I in Babylon are the Christians. But this
land is actually the land of the slaves. What's so free about it? There is no such thing as freedom
in Babylon. All over the world Christians get persecuted, racial attacks are increasing,
government agencies meant to protect the people have taken to their own law. Luke said it
would all happen though and these are the signs that the Lord is coming soon just like He told
me.
From Evangelist Daniel Torres
5
3 years ago
+The New Evangelization ok thats good for the protestant churches. So obviously your talking to
the religious nuts not me as I'm not religious I'm Christian, not part of some denomination as
that is division and a religion not Christian. catholocism isn't nothing but a religion nothing
special.
FROM AN EVANGELIST
2
3 years ago
+The New Evangelization whooo boy the devil really has you under his spell. The catholic church
is false and built on murder rape, and lies and stealing. It is the great whore that worships idols,
and blasphemes against God on a daily basis. Its funny you like a pathetic little religious fool,
defend something that hasn't followed the Gospel once in its existence. You also contradict
yourself as there is no such thing as an Evangelist who is catholic becaues God doesn't reside in
stupid religion. Plus your precious idol has murdered Evangelists because it was a sign of
Christianity and they hate Christians. I am the only one here in this conversation that is anointed
by the Holy Trinity, and preaching truth and Scripture while you are attempting to preach truth
using your misinterpretation of the Gospel
GOD BLESS
FROM A TRUE EVANGELIST
P.s catholocism is a religion not a faith. Only Christianity is a faith and not a religion and we don't
brainwash people to believe lies and propaganda created by the big whore in Babylon. Take care
and enjoy your dead, slave, religious, robot life.
I HATE RELIGION THAT'S ONE REASON WHY I AM A CHRISTIAN. I AM A BORN AGAIN, TRUE
BAPTIZED, TRUE CHRISTIAN. BECAUSE catholocism IS JUST A RELIGION AND NOT CHRISTIAN ITS
RELIGIOUS GARBAGE. ALL IT DOES IS PERSECUTE TRUE PEOPLE OF GOD, CHRISTIANS.
1
Gordon -
Gordon -
2 years ago
+Daniel Torres If you are a true Christian, how about demonstrating some grace towards your
fellow Christians? What kind of witness do you think it is to call someone stupid (and worse),
and then to end with "GOD BLESS"?
1
2 years ago
+Gordon - I always have respect for my fellow Christians. True Christianity has no denominations.
So yea just like love the sinner hate the sin I hate religion and I'm proud to be a Christian. Also
just to let you know catholics aren't Christians.
1
2 years ago
+Tad Whitty "and they will come to me and say did I not do good works in Your name and I will
say depart from me for I never knew you."
Now that's a horrible thing to say about kids what do you have against babies kid? I used to be
like you, trapped in religion till God opened my eyes and told it's either religion or Him, the
Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and all other names that He has , guess what I
was in te deepest part of fallacies also, pentecostal. God called me a lukewarm person and that
His son taught faith and not religion. That in heaven there will only be Christians but we will be
called brothers and sisters, in true Christianity there is no division = denominations. So like one
great Christian said "I still hate religion why you think I'm a Christian
They wanna know the difference
The peace between God has been broke for my sinning
Religion is man using his good deeds trying to close the distance
But we can never reach Him only Jesus came to get us "
FROM AN EVANGELIST
1
2 years ago
+Tad Whitty God spoke to me and told me to choose between Him or religion. So as an
Evangelist I always take His advice you should do so
Black Rocket
Black Rocket
1 year ago
evangelist Daniel..that's the problem today nobody does the will of God.. They want to be God..
They do as they please..It's called modern chritianity..I do things my way. Jesus says of you live
me you follow the commandments.. 3rd. keep your holy day..
obligatory username
obligatory username
8 months ago
EVANGELIST Daniel Torres Christ condemned the Pharisees because they were hypocrites, not
because they were religious. Jesus hating religipn is an invalid claim since He practiced it. He
observed Passover and wore Jewish tassels.
Also, the Church's authority is in the Bible. "You are Peter (the first Pope), and upon this Rock I
will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." Matt. 16:18.
2
Manuel Barrios
Manuel Barrios
1 year ago
May I suggest to all of you who focus on dividing us Christians based on topics such as this, silly
differences on beliefs, Go to Jerusalem, Israel If you can. At least one or two days, you will see
that there are greater problems to deal with instead of dividing us amongst each other. I am a
practicing Roman Catholic old enough guy who has done research. I don't let myself be
influenced easily. STOP dividing us. Stop the "Christian vs Christian" battle, plz. don't you see it?
you who bash other Christians are being instruments of demons doing exactly what the devil
wants, brother against brother.
4
Adelia Kimsey
Adelia Kimsey
2 years ago
Bethke was talking about the legalism in religion. And, I searched my Holy Bible diligently and
have yet to find any verse(s) that tells me to pray to the Virgin Mary.
4
Joshua Greene
Joshua Greene
2 years ago
+Adelia Kimsey What Christians mean when we say we "pray to the Virgin Mary" is, we are
asking her to intercede for us to Christ in the same way we ask a friend to pray for us for certain
graces. However, the difference between our friends who are alive and ones who are already in
heaven is, the ones who are in heaven have a unique perspective over our lives. Mary especially
has a unique perspective because she is our spiritual Mother, who loved Jesus from the diaper to
the Cross, who has tender, motherly affection, and who is so strong-willed as to say "YES" to the
angel Gabriel's request that she give birth to Immanuel and ultimately bore the sight of his
Passion. But how is she OUR spiritual Mother? When the Word became flesh, "He" became
both fully human, and fully divine (John 1:1-5;1:14). The Word, who is divine, literally enters into
HUMANITY and becomes Jesus: fully divine AND fully human. However, it is the WAY in which
the Word becomes flesh and dwells among us that connects us to our Blessed Mother. Jesus did
not just miraculously appear on Earth, nor did He simply enter into the womb as a baby. Rather,
Mary CONCEIVES of the Holy Spirit and gives birth to Jesus in the same way that we are
conceived of by a Mother and a Father and born from our Mother's womb (Matthew 1:18-25).
Consider this: If Jesus is God-enter-humanity (incarnate), and we are also created in the image
and likeness of God, and not only that, but we share in Jesus' death and Resurrection when WE
die and hopefully go to heaven, are we not also SO intrinsically linked to Jesus that we are
wonderfully and spiritually born of the same Mother? It's no wonder that some of Jesus' last
words on the cross make this point evident... "When Jesus saw His Mother, and the disciple
whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" Then He
said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" From that hour the disciple took her into his own
household" (John 19:26-27). We are all the beloved disciple in this story and there is no shame
in taking our Blessed Mother into our own household. She received US as son's and daughters
when she said YES to being the Mother of God.
3
Adelia Kimsey
Adelia Kimsey
2 years ago
+Joshua Greene Here's what the Word of God says, " And the Holy Spirit helps us in our
weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays
for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. 27 And the Father who knows all hearts
knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers[a] in harmony with God’s
own will.
Romans 8:26-27
The Holy Spirit is the only mention of intercession for us.
1
Joshua Greene
Joshua Greene
2 years ago
+Adelia Kimsey The Holy Spirit is indeed the advocate and intercessor but we are prompted to
be actively involved in the Spirit's mission by means of our own heartfelt intentions toward
others however imperfect. Moses, in this sense pleads to God to have mercy on the Israelites
for having worshipped the golden calf while he was on the mount. Moses is praying a prayer of
intercession on their behalf. God listens, and his anger abates. Ask and you shall receive if it is
in accord with God's will. Intercession is a well-ordered asking.
2
Adelia Kimsey
Adelia Kimsey
2 years ago
+Joshua Greene I think we are somewhat on the same page. Here is a very good explanation of
how I feel http://god.net/god/articles/you-are-called-to-be-a-royal-priest/
Joshua Greene
Joshua Greene
2 years ago
Adelia, we are definitely somewhat on the same page. Part of being a Royal Priesthood, you and
I, is to pray for and make sacrifices for others to the Father, through the Holy Spirit, who is un-
conditional Love flowing through us ("O Lord, make me an instrument of your peace!" -St.
Francis of Assisi; "My soul Magnifies the Lord!" -Mary in Luke 1:46 :D). I do disagree, however
with the point your article makes concerning this: "When we feel compassionate love toward an
unbeliever that is the presence of the Holy Spirit leading us to bring that person into the
Kingdom. When we feel compassion for someone then we have forgiven their sins." It is not so
that through feelings we can know someone's sins have been forgiven. As humans, our feelings
are kept in balance when they are informed by reason. It is not reasonable to assume the
man/woman we have prayed for, for their sins to be forgiven have truly become sorrowful for
their own sin; sorrow, or contrition which is necessary for one to truly be reconciled to Christ.
Furthermore, I firmly believe that Jesus commissioned the Apostles and their successors to be
humble mediators IN the person of Christ (not AS Christ), to hear sins and sincere acts of
contrition from those who wish to be reconciled with the Church, who is the Body of Christ. This
understanding is confirmed both as historically and Scripturally valid. Will you take a moment to
read this article that clarifies my point? http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-
confession-in-scripture-0.
2
Adelia Kimsey
Adelia Kimsey
2 years ago
+Joshua Greene I will certainly try to when I have the time. Peace and God bless you <3
1
Joshua Greene
Joshua Greene
2 years ago
God Bless and Peace to you! :)
1
Joshua Greene
Joshua Greene
2 years ago
The Church has never condoned Marian worship because the Church has always clung to Sacred
Scripture which states, in the words of Mary, "My soul doth magnify the Lord!" in response to
John the Baptist leaping in Elizabeth's womb upon encountering unborn Jesus in Mary's womb
(Luke 1:46). Like a magnifying glass, when we look to Mary she forever reveals her Son with
such great clarity, because after all the angel Gabriel ensured her that "The Holy Ghost shall
come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy
thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Overshadowed by grace, she is
an ultimate role model for us in times of temptation. When God asks us to take on such great
responsibility may we say "Yes" as Mary did; may we endure suffering alongside others, and
kneel at their death bed like Mary did her Son; and may we accept the fact that Mary is our
spiritual Mother when she accepts us as her own children, as it is also stated, "When Jesus
therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother,
Woman, behold thy son!" (John 19:26) Don't you think it is divine providence that pagans found
a new female role model waiting for them when they encountered Christians for the first time,
and don't you think the Church would have known better than to promote Marian worship when
that would contradict scripture? Besides, you will be hard pressed to find written evidence that
shows The Church advocating the heresy you speak of. Also, with regard to the candle voodoo
you mention, when a Christian lights a candle it symbolizes light in darkness, as is Christ. It
symbolizes the flame of love, the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and that all this symbolism is their to
show passersby their is a person FOR whom this particular candle is lit. Lighting a candle is not
necessary for divine intercession on another's behalf, it is the prayerful nature of the act, in
prayer, in heartfelt petition while doing something physically meaningful for the person who
finds it so, to light a candle. I would be worried, however, for the person who lights a candle in
worship of a pagan Goddess, asking her to put a spell on someone. Perhaps I would light a
candle for that person, and pray that the Holy Spirit breaks this person's dangerous devotion to
false idols.
2
AJ B
AJ B
2 years ago
+Joshua Greene yet does the bible not condemn idol worship? God alone is worthy of prayer and
anything else is abhorrent to Him.
1
French Toast Mafia
French Toast Mafia
1 year ago (edited)
Elvia Basoria "Idol" refers to a statue, though. And even God himself condones the use of statues
for religious purposes, as seen when he instructs the Hebrews to carve cherubs into the Ark of
the Covenant, and when he instructs Moses to make a bronze snake to heal the people. It is only
when the people start worshipping the snake that God becomes angry. We do not worship the
statues that we have in churches, we only use them to focus on who we're praying to. And by
praying I do not mean worshipping. In this context it simply means asking someone who has a
better standing with God to present our prayers to him in the hopes that he will be more likely to
consider them. Remember, in the Bible it condones the idea of people praying for others,
especially friends. So what is the difference between asking a Saint to pray for us and asking a
friend to pray for us? So seeing as we are not praying to them (merely asking them to send our
prayer to God) that's not really 'idolatry'. And while it's not specifically scriptural to pray to Mary
herself, the practice of praying to saints is scriptural, as seen in Revelation when the saints are
seen to be presenting the prayers of others to God. Seeing as Mary is kind of a saint, and a very
important one, being the mother of God, wouldn't she be the perfect person to ask to pray for
us, seeing as she has one of the highest positions in heaven?
1
aughalough1
aughalough1
1 month ago
Adelia Kimsey, take your education and research to the next level.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwgrzBlZgQ4
Donna Velazquez
Donna Velazquez
1 year ago
I was raised catholic until 9/11/01 the most horrific day of my life with loosing my father it forced
me to open my eyes and search for an answer to why did this happened and in that search I
realized while reading the King James Bible that I had been taught according to what the catholic
faith wanted me to know and not what God wanted me to know. I compared the catholic Good-
news bible to the King James and many words were changed especially in the Ten
Commandments! WoW the very last verse in the book of Revelations you are not to change any
word in this book so after seeing words were changed in the catholic bible I knew they were
against God. I also became aware of the Catholic Church not having bibles in the pews so your
not able to see the full context of the readings. You need to see the verses before and after the
couple of verses you read at a Sunday mass to get a full meaning and that was never the case
when I used to go to church. Why I hate religion but I Love Jesus is right on point. I am no
longer a catholic I am a Christian who is a child of God. No man is going to tell me what my Lord
God expects from me cause I can find out myself by reading the Holy Bible that was inspired by
God.
4
Brad K
Brad K
10 months ago
Donna, I'd say you have a unhistorical view of the Bible and Christianity in general. You pretty
much have become your own authority on the Bible which is unbiblical, not biblical. The Catholic
Church covers the whole Bible in it's three year cycle readings at mass. So the church covers
Salvation history in it's worship. The church hasn't changed anything in the Bible, protestants
have. Remember this, there was no chapter breaks nor verses in the Bible until the 16th century.
It was a continuous flow with no breaks or verses. There was no official Bible until the 5th
century. Some early church leaders used writings of the Church Fathers that were not included in
the New Testament canon because these writings where by some Bishops who came right after
the age of the apostles. But who's decision was it to not include these letters but to include what
became the New Testament? It was the very Church that you left and even hate, I suspect. As
John Henry Neman has once said, "To go steep in history, is to cease to be protestant."
2
Donna Velazquez
Donna Velazquez
4 months ago
My view is correct and I see from reading the Bible myself that if just a few verses are read it can
be taken for what ever you want it to mean! The verses before and after have to be read to
obtain the full meaning. I am now born again and baptized as an adult because being baptized
as an infant means nothing. And if you claim it frees us of original sin then why did Jesus die on
the cross? It was to forgive us all of original sin wasn’t it? Funny when I had my 3 out of 4
children christened the church wanted a couple of hundred dollars before but when I had my 4th
child dedicated my pastor wanted zero money only a promise that my husband and I would raise
the baby in faith huge difference. I can go on about the money the Catholic Church wants before
they do anything such as baptism, first holy communion, conformation and marriage it’s crazy
and the church is just making money to fill their own pockets. The Bible tells me I have no
authority to judge so I cannot judge you but you judged me in your response isn’t that agains our
lord? The non denominational church I go to now is so different than the Catholic Church I was a
part of and so I am happy now because I DO NOT HAVE TO DO WORKS for my salvation for
salvation is a gift from God and being raised Catholic I was thought to work for my salvation
please tell me I’m wrong and I will forward you scripture from any bible except the Catholic good
news bible.
Lastly only the good new version of the Bible does not have the commandment:
* Thou shall not make any graven images of things in the heavens, earth or sea
For I am a jealous God and will have vengeance down to the fourth generation.
So why is this not there???? Why was the wording changed? Was it because the Vatican and all
its churches are full of images and statues of saints?? Plus Jesus still hangs on a cross at Catholic
Churches when he shouldn’t be he was taken down and rose from his grave but they still keep
him there!
1
Derek Handson
Derek Handson
1 week ago
Brad K Wasn't it Catholics who chose the order of the books? Plus, Luther, leader of the
Protestant Reformation editited and made his own bible.
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
Jesus broke that wall down where you don't have to talk to a priest anymore but to Jesus Christ
himself.
4
8 months ago
Moon Light Who said, "What you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven and
whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."?
1
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
Bishop Robert Barron Jesus came to set us free from religion, not to slater sheep for our sins.
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
Bishop Robert Barron excuse me sir but that has nothing to do with what I said. And you can't
take anything with you in hraven.
1
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
Bishop Robert Barron That's not true you can't take anything with you in heaven or hell.
8 months ago
Well, I don't know. The risen Lord breathed on his Apostles and gave them the power to bind
and to loose. That sounds like the passing on to the bishops and priests of the church the
authority to forgive sins.
1
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
Bishop Robert Barron Hey gave then the power through the Holy Spirit, and to heal people so
they may see God's power. We are called to bring people to Christ and baptize them in the
Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
1
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
that is our role and to have an intimate relationship with our Heavenly Father.
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
And technology your wrong because no one can forgive someone's sins in less it's God himself
not you or the priest.
8 months ago
Not to everyone! Only to the Apostles.
1
Tom Broughton
Tom Broughton
8 months ago
Could you please right correctly, Moon Light? I highlighted your mistakes in BOLD: "And
TECHNICALLY YOU ARE wrong because no one can forgive someone's sins UNLESS it's God
himself--not you or the priest."
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
Tom Broughton that's what I said.
Moon Light
Moon Light
8 months ago
Tom Broughton I said no one can forgive someone's sins in less it's the Father Almighty.
Tom Broughton
Tom Broughton
8 months ago
Fine. Just write your thoughts correctly. My contention is that you do not write correctly.
Derek Handson
Derek Handson
1 week ago
Moon Light And who's to say the father isn't doing that through the priests. The quote is right
there "The sins you forgive, I forgive too".
Kat S.
Kat S.
1 year ago
I have to disagree with you. I beileve that you are saved by the grace of Christ. When Paul is
saying with love I am nothing he is saying if you do not have a true deep love in Christ you are
nothing if you do all the works in the world it wouldnt matter without a true deep connection
with Christ. I personally beileve that's the point of the video. Giving all you are to Christ and
loving him is how i beileve we are saved.
4
1 year ago
But he drives way to sharp a wedge between faith and works, between grace and the church,
etc. This is a both/and proposition, not an either/or.
11
Stephen Nacua
Stephen Nacua
1 year ago (edited)
Bishop Robert Barron While that was evident in the video. I believe that what he meant by those
"Sharp wedges" was that we rely to much on the things we do rather than on the Lord's
sustaining grace. And this is very evident in today's believers. Try asking them why they should
go to heaven, and I'm sure that most of the responses would be along the lines of "Cuz I go to
Church" or "Cuz I do good" or maybe even "Cuz I give to charity". The video was trying to tell us
that we should put Jesus first above all things, because in today's world where almost everything
has a merit system on it, we tend to forget who is at the center of it all. I'd also like to point out,
with all due respect, that we shouldn't be looking at this whole thing as being influenced by
certain backgrounds and people(e.g Martin Luther) and by no means any form of political view.
Martin Luther was a famous icon for Evangelism but by no means represent the whole. He had
his views that some(?) practices by the Church were demonic, but this is not the case with all
"Evangelical" Christians. People use the term "Evangelical Christian" as form of grouping but in
reality, the proper term who are in the supposed denomination are called(for the most part)
simply "Followers of Chirst" as an example is the person who made the video. Try looking into
the guy's background and you'll understand what I mean. But regardless of this, great job on the
video, it was very insightful :)
Hans Yunge
Hans Yunge
1 year ago
The problem here stems from the idea that faith and works are somehow separate. They are
not. They are inseparable. James clearly says that faith without works is dead. Paul clearly
states that works without faith is useless. They are united, just as the heart and brain are
inseparable in a symbiotic union, neither surviving without the other.
Faith is the invisible church working in us, prompted by the holy spirit, works is the visible
church, the church laboring in creation for the furtherance of God's plan. Christ's sacrifice on
the cross was very much a "work," a physical representation of the spiritual grace bestowed
upon us.
If works are truly useless, it leaves Christ's death on the cross as irrelevant. If Christ's work and
faith had meaning, why doesn't ours?
Donna Velazquez
Donna Velazquez
4 months ago
Jesus stated, “by no works shall you be saved” So did Jesus not know what he was talking
about??
jpnoobie
jpnoobie
2 years ago
the reason he is addressing that kids video is because he without a doubt knows it just slapped
his church across the face...and the kid is way more right in his approach than the exalted
leadership at the vatican. again- not catholic people- just the man-made end of it. ultimately the
bishop wants to correct him because the kid is trying to reach out to the youth (understandable)
whereas the bishop feels their role is to simply touch the youth...:) please forgive me brothers.
how cld i resist tho?
4
Nahz Plays
Nahz Plays
1 year ago
Watch the video folks, it makes sense. Jesus never wanted religion. Christianity is god searching
for man. Religion is Man searching for god
3
justCantHandel
justCantHandel
4 months ago
+Nahz Plays Jesus is the founder of the Catholic Church and Catholicism - of course he wanted
religion.
1
Derek Handson
Derek Handson
1 week ago
"God searching for man" That doesn't make sense. He already knows everything about us. Of
course it's about Man Searching God. To elaborate, lets make it Man SEEKING God because isn't
that what this whole faith is about? Finding God and loving him?
Jenna Logan
Jenna Logan
1 year ago
I do not think you actually "get" Jefferson's video. Maybe it is the generation gap?
Also, your argument of Salvation, is not completely correct. You ARE saved through grace alone.
For example, if you are on your death bed, and you accept Jesus, and die two minutes later, you
have no time to do any good acts, which you are saying you must have, to be saved. So based on
what you are saying, that death bed reaching for Jesus, is not good enough.
The truth, the Biblical truth, is you ARE saved through Jesus blood Grace! Once you are saved,
and learn of Christ, you WANT to do do good acts. You are lead, by the Spirit to do these acts! It
is NOT a predeterminator, of Salvation. If one were to die, two minutes after accepting Christ,
they are saved!
Jesus wants that not one should perish! Your way to Salvation would give many who are dying,
no hope.
3
George
George
This video presents a good argument here. An even simpler one is that - if the definition of
religion is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe" - how
would it be possible to pursue any form of spirituality without it? It would be a contradiction. For
as soon as we begin meditating, reflecting, or worshiping there is direction and perceived
understanding (belief). In other words, religion.
3
prairie mark
prairie mark
I remember the old country song...."Me and Jesus got a good thing going!" Notice the "Me" is
first....and who knows to whom they are accountable or against what standard that relationship
with Jesus is measured. Evangelicalism comes across as a simple direct relationship with Christ,
without the encumbrances of "organized religion". But look a little deeper and you find a lot of
"man-centeredness" and a lot of subjectivism,even rebellion. I observed it from the inside for 57
years.
2
timothyj1966
timothyj1966
1 year ago
no one cometh unto the Father but through the Son. This is where the catholic doctrine gets it
ALL wrong
12
Mr.s Stuff
1 year ago
+BishopRobertBarron Jesus came to FULFILL the law. HE DID with his Crucifixion & Resurrection.
Why then are you reverting back to the Law that has already been FULFILLED?
3
Azozeo
3 months ago
Love the collar Father.
2
Erik Buys
2 years ago
Perhaps it is indeed better to speak of a Christianity "transforming" religion (and mythology)
than of a Christianity "destroying" them. Nevertheless, I have sympathy for Jeff Bethke and his
poem - it is expressed too strongly, perhaps, but Bethke also says that he "loves the Bible, the
Church..." etc.
Find more here - with reference to Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the "new atheism":
https://erikbuys.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/the-end-of-religion/
Cheers!!
2
Katolika 93
2 years ago
YES YES YES!!!!Thank you Fr. Barron, That video annoyed me a great deal. As a young person I
hate how sometimes youths can be arrogant and naive, and self righteous. I guess that's kind of
normal for youths but when its about GOD and religion, makes me wanna slap some humility
into people
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Find more videos at http://WordOnFire.org

that's why Jesus said what He said in John 11.

I could go on more. My conversion from man-made fundamentalist tradition to Historic

I wish you well on your journey. Thanks for the interaction.

also not to mention Galatians 2:20-21

God bless :)) hehe

God bless :))

^^^I just love this verse <3

^^^It's always about loving others. Selflessness is the character of Jesus.

^^^Boast = the only thing we have to hold onto our hearts

Peace and love :D be free to reply anyone eeeelse :)

Kato says to me:

2. "Do not allow a sorceress to live." - Exodus 22:18

6. “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” - Ephesians 5:22

Mental assent is necessay but not sufficient for conversion to occur.

He taught the law, summing it up in those three short commands.

He can build that in 3 days

Where and what is ur base ? Religion or bible ?

Religion might preach grace another thing they practice

We'll know that Jesus didn't implicate traditions really,

And religion is violence,

Peter is the Rock on which the Church is Built

&quot;his courage and devotion to duty never wavered&quot;

synonyms: devoutness &#183; piety &#183; religiousness &#183; spirituality &#183;

godliness &#183; holiness &#183; sanctity

synonyms: religious worship &#183; worship &#183; religious observance &#183;

prayers &#183; prayer meeting &#183; church service

Powered by Oxford Dictionaries &#183; &#169; Oxford University Press

It does not have to say what reason itself tells us is error.

Exactly! But that doesn't seem to bother our protestant friends.

Remember too, that the Church is a hospital for sinners.

Mater Dei, ora pro nobis.

Mater Dei, ora pro nobis pecatoribus.

Dominum Nostrum Iesum Christum miserere nobis!

Pax Domini sit semper te cum!

Das könnte Ihnen auch gefallen

"his courage and devotion to duty never wavered"

synonyms: devoutness · piety · religiousness · spirituality ·

godliness · holiness · sanctity

synonyms: religious worship · worship · religious observance ·

prayers · prayer meeting · church service

Powered by Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press