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SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA

COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

Lead Case No: BC599321


Judge: Michael P. Vicencia
Dept: S-26
Complaint Filed: October 29, 2015

Plaintiffs:

KENDRA GATT, BRIANNA BORDON, and YAZMIN BROWN

vs.

Defendants:

USA TAEKWONDO, LATIN AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL


TAEKWONDO FEDERATION, LTD., d/b/a GLOBAL AMERICAN
INTERNATIONAL TAEKWONDO FEDERATION, INC., NV
TAEKWONDO TRAINING AND FITNESS CENTER, CALIFORNIA
UNIFIED TAEKWONDO ASSOCIATION, UNITED STATES OLYMPIC
COMMITTEE, MALIA ARRINGTON, KRYSTAL GRAHAM, MARC
GITELMAN, and DOES 1-50 inclusive
____________________________________________________
VIDEO DEPOSITION OF MALIA ARRINGTON
September 27th, 2016
____________________________________________________
PURSUANT TO NOTICE, the video
deposition of MALIA ARRINGTON, was taken on behalf
of the Plaintiffs at the 121 South Tejon Street,
Suite 900, Colorado Springs, Colorado, on September
27, 2016, at 9:04 a.m., before Karen J. Hathcock,
Registered Merit Reporter, Registered Shorthand
Reporter and Notary Public within the State of
Colorado.
1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2 ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF KENDRA GATT:
3 KENNETH C. TUREK, ESQ.
Turek Law, P.C.
4 600 B Street, Suite 2400
San Diego, California 92101
5
ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF BRIANNA BORDON:
6
JONATHAN C. LITTLE, ESQ.
7 Saeed & Little, LLP
1433 North Meridian Street
8 Suite 202
Indianapolis, Indiana 46202
9
ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF YAZMIN BROWN:
10
STEPHEN ESTEY, ESQ.
11 Estey Bomberger, LLP
2869 India Street
12 San Diego, California 92103
13 ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT U.S. OLYMPIC COMMITTEE
and MALIA ARRINGTON:
14
MARGARET HOLM, ESQ.
15 Bonne Bridges Mueller O'Keefe & Nichols
SEDGWICK, LLP
16 2020 Main Street, Suite 1100
Irvine, California 92614
17
ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT USA TAEKWONDO:
18
EVAN OKAMURA, ESQ.
19 Reback McAndrews Kjar Warford &
Stockalper, LLP
20 1230 Rosecrans Avenue, #450
Manhattan Beach, California 90266
21
Also Present: Rodney Hudson, Videographer
22 Gary Johansen
23
24
25

Page 2
1 I N D E X Page
2

EXAMINATION OF MALIA ARRINGTON


3 September 27, 2016
4 By Mr. Estey: 6
5 By Mr. Little: 168
6 By Mr. Turek: 190
7

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Page 3
1 I N D E X (Cont.)
2 INITIAL
DEPOSITION EXHIBITS REFERENCE
3

For the Plaintiffs:


4 09:35:59

1 Press Release 74
5 09:24:49

2 Working Group for Safe Training 79


6 Environments - Recommendations to the
USOC Board of Directors -
7 September 28, 2010
8 3 U.S. Olympic Committee Anounces Formation 99
of U.S. Center For SafeSport Advisory
9 Council Article
10 4 Biography from University of Virginia 101
School of Law
11

5 SafeSport Has Changed our Coaching 102


12 Business Practices Article
13 6 Presentation for USA Gymnastics - 2013 111
14 7 Olympic Committee President Calls 113
Preventing Sexual Abuse Most Important Role
15 Article
16 8 String of Emails 116
17 9 String of Emails 122
18 10 String of Emails 125
19 11 String of Emails 128
20 12 String of Emails 129
21 13 String of Emails 132
22 14 String of Emails 133
23 15 String of Emails 134
24 16 String of Emails 137
25

Page 4
1 INITIAL
DEPOSITION EXHIBITS REFERENCE
2

For the Plaintiffs:


3

18 USA Taekwondo SafeSport Strategy, Policies 143


4 and Procedures - Recognizing, Reducing
and Responding to the Potential for
5 Misconducct in the Sport of Taekwondo in
the USA
6

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

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Page 5
1 (WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were

2 taken pursuant to the Colorado Rules of Civil

3 Procedure:)

4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. My name 09:03:44

5 is Rodney Hudson. I'm the video operator today, and 09:03:45

6 I'm employed by Imagine Reporting, located at 600 09:03:49

7 West Broadway, Suite 1225, San Diego, California. 09:03:52

8 Today's date is September 27th, 2016. The 09:03:58

9 present time is 9:04 a.m. 09:04:03

10 The current location of this deposition is 09:04:06

11 121 South Tejon Street, Colorado Springs, Colorado. 09:04:09

12 Today's witness is Malia Arrington in the 09:04:14

13 case of Gatt, et al. v. USA Taekwondo, et al. 09:04:17

14 This deposition was noticed by Estey & 09:04:25

15 Bomberger for the Plaintiff. 09:04:27

16 Would counsel for the parties please 09:04:30

17 identify themselves and state for whom they are 09:04:33

18 appearing. 09:04:34

19 MR. ESTEY: Steve Estey for Plaintiff 09:04:35

20 Yazmin Brown. 09:04:35

21 MR. LITTLE: John Little for Plaintiff 09:04:38

22 Brianna Bordon, and Ken Turek will be here for -- 09:04:38

23 MR. ESTEY: Gatt. 09:04:42

24 MR. LITTLE: The Plaintiffs as well, 09:04:42

25 Kendra Gatt. 09:04:43

Page 6
1 MR. OKAMURA: Kevin Okamura on behalf of 09:04:47

2 Defendant USA Taekwondo. 09:04:48

3 MS. HOLM: Margaret Holm on behalf of 09:04:51

4 Defendant USOC. 09:04:52

5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the reporter 09:04:55

6 please swear in the witness. 09:04:56

7 MALIA ARRINGTON, 09:04:57

8 having been sworn to tell the truth, testified as 09:04:57

9 follows: 09:04:57

10 EXAMINATION 09:05:07

11 BY MR. ESTEY: 09:05:07

12 Q. Good morning, ma'am. Could you state your 09:05:08

13 name and spell your last for the record, please. 09:05:09

14 A. Malia Arrington, A-R-R-I-N-G-T-O-N. 09:05:12

15 Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken 09:05:16

16 before? 09:05:17

17 A. No. 09:05:18

18 Q. Okay. I'm going to go over some of the 09:05:21

19 ground rules then. 09:05:23

20 Do you understand that your testimony here 09:05:24

21 today is under penalty of perjury? 09:05:25

22 A. Yes. 09:05:27

23 Q. Okay. The court reporter to your left 09:05:27

24 will take down everything that's said. At a later 09:05:29

25 date, she'll type it up in a transcript or a booklet 09:05:32

Page 7
1 format. You'll be given an opportunity to review 09:05:36

2 the transcript, make any changes you feel are 09:05:39

3 necessary, but if you make a substantial change, 09:05:41

4 like a "yes" to a "no," that could prove 09:05:45

5 embarrassing at trial; could affect credibility. 09:05:47

6 For those reasons, it's very important to give us 09:05:49

7 your most truthful, accurate and complete testimony 09:05:52

8 here today, okay? 09:05:56

9 A. Yes. 09:05:57

10 Q. All right. If you answer a question, I 09:05:57

11 will assume you understood it, and if you don't 09:05:58

12 understand a question, please have me rephrase it. 09:06:01

13 Is that fair? 09:06:04

14 A. I will -- I will have you reask the 09:06:05

15 question if I don't understand it, yes. 09:06:07

16 Q. Fair enough. 09:06:09

17 Any reason why we can't go forward with 09:06:09

18 the deposition today? 09:06:11

19 A. No. 09:06:12

20 Q. Can you give me a brief description of 09:06:13

21 your educational background since high school? 09:06:14

22 A. I attended Emory University for my 09:06:17

23 undergraduate degree, and the University of Virginia 09:06:19

24 for my JD and my master's. 09:06:23

25 Q. So, you're a lawyer? 09:06:26

Page 8
1 A. I am. 09:06:27

2 Q. You know about laws and stuff? 09:06:28

3 A. I -- I feel like that question might be a 09:06:31

4 little overly broad. I know about some laws. 09:06:33

5 Q. All right. Emory, what did you -- was 09:06:36

6 your degree in? 09:06:38

7 A. International studies. 09:06:39

8 Q. All right. What year was that? 09:06:41

9 A. '97. 09:06:43

10 Q. All right. And UVA for you said a JD and 09:06:49

11 something else? 09:06:53

12 A. Master's in biomedical ethics. 09:06:55

13 Q. Biomedical ethics? 09:06:57

14 A. Yes. 09:06:59

15 Q. They didn't have that at San Diego State 09:07:00

16 when I went there. 09:07:03

17 A. It -- it was relatively new in the -- in 09:07:07

18 the '90s, so... I guess that would have been the 09:07:08

19 2000s, but yeah. 09:07:08

20 Q. All right. So, I'm sorry. The JD was 09:07:10

21 when? 09:07:12

22 A. 2003. 09:07:14

23 Q. And the master's? 09:07:16

24 A. 2003. 09:07:17

25 Q. Both. Okay. 09:07:18

Page 9
1 A. Yeah, I did them concurrently. 09:07:19

2 Q. And are you licensed to practice law in 09:07:27

3 any states? 09:07:30

4 A. Yes. 09:07:31

5 Q. Which states? 09:07:31

6 A. Colorado. 09:07:32

7 Q. When were you first licensed in Colorado? 09:07:35

8 A. 2003. 09:07:44

9 Q. All right. Let's talk about your 09:07:49

10 occupational background. 09:07:51

11 Who is your current employer? 09:07:53

12 A. The U.S. Olympic Committee. 09:07:55

13 Q. And what's your title? 09:07:58

14 A. Senior Director of Ethics and SafeSport. 09:08:00

15 COURT REPORTER: And what? 09:08:04

16 THE WITNESS: SafeSport. 09:08:04

17 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Senior Director of Ethics 09:08:08

18 and SafeSport, is that correct? 09:08:10

19 A. Correct. 09:08:12

20 Q. And how long have you been the Senior 09:08:13

21 Director of Ethics and SafeSport? 09:08:15

22 A. Since late spring of 2015. 09:08:20

23 Q. All right. And what are your duties as 09:08:26

24 the Senior Director of Ethics and SafeSport? 09:08:30

25 A. You mean, when I started with the U.S. 09:08:35

Page 10
1 Olympic Committee, or what are they now? 09:08:37

2 Q. Well, I -- I imagine this -- this is not 09:08:40

3 your first title with USOC, is it? 09:08:42

4 A. No. 09:08:45

5 Q. Okay. So, I want you to talk about your 09:08:45

6 duties from September -- or spring of 2015 until 09:08:47

7 now. 09:08:51

8 A. So, probably in the spring of 2015, the 09:08:53

9 primary responsibilities involved continuing to 09:08:57

10 support the resource-based initiative of SafeSport, 09:09:02

11 and simultaneously, working to create the U.S. 09:09:05

12 Center For SafeSport. 09:09:08

13 Q. What -- what is SafeSport? 09:09:19

14 A. SafeSport is the U.S. Olympic movement's 09:09:21

15 resource-based initiative to help support 09:09:25

16 organizations prevent and respond to abuse in sport. 09:09:29

17 Q. To help organizations prevent and respond, 09:09:36

18 you say? 09:09:41

19 A. Correct. 09:09:41

20 Q. To abuse? 09:09:42

21 A. Correct. Or misconduct, yes. 09:09:44

22 Q. What type of abuse? 09:09:47

23 A. Emotional, physical and sexual. 09:09:48

24 Q. When you say a "resource-based 09:09:53

25 initiative," what -- what do you mean by that? 09:09:55

Page 11
1 A. Essentially, what I mean is that SafeSport 09:09:58

2 was imagined and always intended to be exactly that, 09:10:00

3 a resource for sport organizations, including the 09:10:04

4 Sport National Governing Bodies. 09:10:08

5 Q. What's a -- what's a National Governing 09:10:12

6 Body? 09:10:14

7 A. If we're talking about -- I mean, I think 09:10:16

8 there are a lot of different definitions. If we're 09:10:19

9 talking about what a National Governing Body is 09:10:22

10 within the U.S. Olympic movement -- 09:10:23

11 Q. Correct. 09:10:28

12 A. -- they are those sport organizations that 09:10:28

13 the U.S. Olympic Committee has recognized as being 09:10:29

14 the National Governing Body for a particular Olympic 09:10:33

15 sport. 09:10:38

16 Q. How many National Governing Bodies does 09:10:41

17 the USOC currently recognize? 09:10:43

18 A. To the best of my knowledge, it's 47. 09:10:46

19 Q. And how does an NGB, or a National 09:10:59

20 Governing Body, go about getting recognized by the 09:11:00

21 USOC? 09:11:04

22 A. I can't answer that. 09:11:05

23 Q. All right. Do you work with any of the -- 09:11:07

24 the NGB's? 09:11:08

25 A. Meaning -- what do you mean by that? 09:11:12

Page 12
1 Sorry. 09:11:13

2 Q. Do you have any inter- -- any interaction 09:11:14

3 with them? 09:11:16

4 A. I do, yes. 09:11:16

5 Q. And -- and how so? 09:11:17

6 A. Yeah, I mean, again, the idea is that 09:11:19

7 SafeSport is a resource-based initiative, so if they 09:11:21

8 have questions about best practices or questions 09:11:25

9 about something that they may be considering doing, 09:11:27

10 I can, you know, talk to them about some of those 09:11:31

11 things in a non-legal capacity. 09:11:34

12 Q. All right. In order for a National 09:11:36

13 Governing Body to be recognized by the USOC, do they 09:11:37

14 have to have implemented some form of the SafeSport 09:11:42

15 initiative? 09:11:44

16 A. They do at this time, yes. 09:11:46

17 Q. All right. Why? 09:11:47

18 A. Why do they -- sorry. 09:11:49

19 Q. Why does the USOC require that? 09:11:50

20 A. I think the U.S. Olympic Committee 09:11:55

21 recognizes and appreciates that SafeSport is an 09:11:56

22 important part of what the National Governing Bodies 09:11:59

23 do. 09:12:02

24 Q. All right. And when -- when -- it's to 09:12:03

25 protect the athletes, right? 09:12:04

Page 13
1 A. It's to protect all participants. 09:12:06

2 Q. All right. And it's to -- to protect 09:12:09

3 anyone who's a -- a member of either the National 09:12:10

4 Governing Body of the USOC, right? 09:12:12

5 A. I'm sorry. I don't understand that 09:12:16

6 question. 09:12:17

7 Q. Well, you would agree with me the safety 09:12:18

8 of the athletes is the number one priority for both 09:12:20

9 the USOC and the NGBs, right? 09:12:24

10 A. I would agree that it's an important 09:12:24

11 issue, yes. 09:12:25

12 Q. It's a top priority, isn't it? 09:12:27

13 A. It's an important priority, yes. 09:12:29

14 Q. Is there anything else that's more 09:12:31

15 important than the safety of the athletes? 09:12:33

16 A. Not from where I sit as the person who 09:12:35

17 does SafeSport. 09:12:36

18 Q. All right. So, when did the USOC require 09:12:37

19 the National Governing Bodies to implement some form 09:12:39

20 of a SafeSport initiative? 09:12:43

21 A. December 31st, 2013. 09:12:45

22 Q. All right. I'm going to come back to 09:12:48

23 that, but were you -- were you employed by the USOC 09:12:55

24 at that time? 09:13:01

25 A. Yes. 09:13:01

Page 14
1 Q. Okay. So, currently, you are the Senior 09:13:07

2 Director of Ethics and SafeSport since the spring of 09:13:12

3 2015, right? 09:13:16

4 A. Correct. 09:13:18

5 Q. All right. And day to day, what do you -- 09:13:18

6 what do you do? 09:13:23

7 A. Right now? 09:13:24

8 Q. Yeah. 09:13:24

9 A. Yeah. So, right now, again, my primary 09:13:25

10 responsibility is working to launch the U.S. Center 09:13:27

11 for SafeSport. 09:13:31

12 Q. All right. And the Center for SafeSport 09:13:33

13 is -- is -- is what? 09:13:35

14 A. It will -- well, it is an independent 09:13:35

15 501(C)(3). It has an independent Board of 09:13:38

16 Directors. It will have two primary 09:13:42

17 responsibilities. One will be to continue to 09:13:46

18 deliver the resource -- the resources on the 09:13:48

19 prevention side, and then it will also include a 09:13:50

20 response and resolution office. 09:13:55

21 Q. Okay. 09:14:02

22 COURT REPORTER: You -- you dropped your 09:14:02

23 voice. 09:14:02

24 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 09:14:02

25 COURT REPORTER: A response of what? 09:14:02

Page 15
1 THE WITNESS: A response and resolution 09:14:02

2 office. 09:14:02

3 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Where is it going to be 09:14:02

4 located? 09:14:04

5 A. Denver, Colorado. 09:14:04

6 Q. And who's going to pay for it? 09:14:05

7 A. Excuse me. It's a combination of the 47 09:14:09

8 National Governing Bodies, the U.S. Olympic 09:14:11

9 Committee and other funders. 09:14:14

10 Q. All right. So, the 47 National Governing 09:14:16

11 Bodies are going to be required to fund, in some 09:14:17

12 manner, this SafeSport Center? 09:14:23

13 A. Yes. 09:14:25

14 Q. Okay. And how much is each -- each 09:14:25

15 National Governing Body going to be required to pay 09:14:28

16 towards this National SafeSport Center? 09:14:32

17 A. It depends on their current revenue. The 09:14:34

18 total is $1.04 million a year. 09:14:37

19 Q. And do you know how much USA Taekwondo is 09:14:41

20 going to be required to pay towards this SafeSport 09:14:42

21 Center? 09:14:47

22 A. Not without going back to look at some 09:14:48

23 other documents. 09:14:52

24 Q. What if a National Governing Body does not 09:14:53

25 contribute money towards this SafeSport Center, does 09:14:55

Page 16
1 that jeopardize their status with the USOC? 09:14:57

2 A. Yes. 09:15:02

3 Q. How so? 09:15:02

4 A. It is a requirement of the 47 Sport 09:15:03

5 National Governing Bodies that they utilize the 09:15:05

6 center in order to be recognized as a member in good 09:15:09

7 standing. 09:15:12

8 Q. Okay. And if a National Governing Body 09:15:12

9 chooses not to utilize or -- or pay money towards 09:15:14

10 this SafeSport Center, then they could be suspended 09:15:17

11 or -- or decertified by the USOC? 09:15:20

12 A. Their two options, as I understand it, is 09:15:23

13 that it could either affect their High Performance 09:15:26

14 funding or they could be decertified. 09:15:29

15 Q. Okay. Who's your boss? 09:15:33

16 A. The U.S. Olympic Committee. 09:15:35

17 Q. Do you -- do you report to anyone? 09:15:37

18 A. I report to two individuals. I report to 09:15:39

19 Rick Adams and I report to Chris McCleary. 09:15:41

20 Q. And what's Mr. Adams' title? 09:15:44

21 A. Chief of Paralympic -- I trying to 09:15:48

22 remember. He's got a really long title. Chief of 09:15:52

23 Paralympics and NGB Relations, something to that 09:15:56

24 effect. 09:16:02

25 Q. Okay. 09:16:02

Page 17
1 A. It's changed a couple of since I started 09:16:02

2 with him, so... It's something along those lines. 09:16:05

3 Q. All right. And then Chris', what's his -- 09:16:07

4 what's his title? 09:16:09

5 A. He's General Counsel. 09:16:11

6 Q. He's an attorney too? 09:16:12

7 A. Chris McCleary? 09:16:15

8 Q. Yes. 09:16:15

9 A. Yes. 09:16:16

10 MR. LITTLE: What is his last name? 09:16:16

11 THE WITNESS: McCleary, M-c-C-L-E-A-R-Y. 09:16:17

12 Q. (By Mr. Estey) You've got a lot of 09:16:19

13 attorneys working at the USOC. 09:16:20

14 That's not a question. Don't worry. 09:16:23

15 A. Yeah. 09:16:24

16 Q. All right. Do you -- are you responsible 09:16:24

17 for supervising people underneath you? 09:16:28

18 A. No. 09:16:31

19 Q. Okay. And your office is located here in 09:16:31

20 Colorado Springs? 09:16:36

21 A. Correct. 09:16:37

22 Q. So, prior to becoming the Senior Director 09:16:39

23 of Ethics and SafeSport in the spring of 2015, what 09:16:42

24 was your title with the USOC? 09:16:45

25 A. Director of Ethics and SafeSport. 09:16:47

Page 18
1 And let me go back to the supervision. I 09:16:49

2 do now supervise one person. 09:16:52

3 Q. Who do you supervise? Mr. Johansen? 09:16:54

4 A. Yeah, I can assure you that I cannot 09:16:55

5 supervise Mr. Johansen. No. 09:16:57

6 Meredith Yeoman. And that's only been 09:16:58

7 within the last six months or so. 09:16:58

8 Q. What's Meredith's title? 09:17:05

9 A. Communications and Community Outreach 09:17:05

10 Coordinator. 09:17:07

11 Q. Okay. Okay. So, prior to the spring of 09:17:11

12 2015, what was your title with USOC? 09:17:13

13 A. Director of Ethics and SafeSport. 09:17:16

14 Q. And as the Director of Ethics and 09:17:18

15 SafeSport, what were your duties? 09:17:19

16 A. I -- on -- on the ethics side, I reported 09:17:26

17 to Chris McCleary and responsible for Code of 09:17:29

18 Ethics, you know, conduct, all of the things 09:17:31

19 internal to the USOC as it related to ethics and 09:17:35

20 codes of conduct. 09:17:38

21 On the SafeSport side, it was to, again, 09:17:40

22 provide resources to sport organizations to help 09:17:44

23 them prevent and respond to abuse in sport, you 09:17:48

24 know, including educational materials and other 09:17:53

25 resources. 09:17:56

Page 19
1 Q. All right. And how long did you hold the 09:17:57

2 title of Director of Ethics and SafeSport? 09:17:59

3 A. From April of 2011 until the spring of 09:18:03

4 2015. 09:18:07

5 Q. And who did -- who was your boss during 09:18:12

6 that time period? The same -- same people? 09:18:14

7 A. Correct. 09:18:16

8 Q. Okay. 09:18:16

9 A. Well, in 2011, the General Counsel was 09:18:16

10 Rana Dershowitz. 09:18:21

11 Q. Okay. And is -- is that a boy or girl? 09:18:23

12 A. That's a woman. A female. 09:18:27

13 MS. HOLM: I know you're laid back. 09:18:33

14 Q. (By Mr. Estey) I thought you said -- I -- 09:18:34

15 I didn't understand the first name. What was the 09:18:34

16 first name? 09:18:35

17 A. Rana. 09:18:37

18 Q. Oh, Rana. 09:18:37

19 A. R-A-N-A. 09:18:37

20 Q. Okay. All right. It's a -- a woman. 09:18:37

21 Okay. 09:18:40

22 Is Ms. Dershowitz still with the USOC? 09:18:41

23 A. I'm sorry? 09:18:45

24 Q. Is Ms. -- is Ms. Dershowitz still with the 09:18:46

25 USOC? 09:18:48

Page 20
1 A. No. 09:18:49

2 Q. Okay. When did she leave, do you know? 09:18:49

3 A. Late fall of 2014, I believe. 09:18:54

4 Q. Okay. And prior to the title of Director 09:18:59

5 of Ethics and SafeSport, did you have another title 09:19:02

6 at USOC? 09:19:07

7 A. No. 09:19:09

8 Q. Okay. So, you started with the USOC in, 09:19:09

9 then, 2011? 09:19:11

10 A. Correct. 09:19:12

11 Q. Okay. And prior to being hired by the 09:19:12

12 USOC in 2011, where did you work? 09:19:16

13 A. I was working at Reilly Pozner. 09:19:20

14 Q. What's that? 09:19:23

15 A. It is a litigation boutique. 09:19:24

16 Q. What kind of law do they -- do they 09:19:27

17 litigate? 09:19:29

18 A. They don't specialize. 09:19:30

19 Q. All right. And so plaintiff or defense 09:19:32

20 work? 09:19:34

21 A. Both. 09:19:34

22 Q. You did some plaintiff's work? 09:19:35

23 A. I've done both. 09:19:36

24 Q. Good for you. 09:19:37

25 What kind of plaintiff's work? 09:19:38

Page 21
1 A. Gosh. Now you're making me go back many, 09:19:43

2 many years. 09:19:48

3 Q. It's not that long ago. 09:19:49

4 A. No, it -- it -- in my brain it is. 09:19:51

5 Yeah, I mean, we did a combination of 09:19:54

6 things. I mean, sometimes we would, you know, work 09:19:56

7 fair -- you know, a fair amount on the pro bono 09:19:57

8 stuff, and work with prisoners who were, you know, 09:19:59

9 trying to do the appeals process and other things 09:20:03

10 like that. In some cases, it was DNC protestors. 09:20:06

11 Q. Did you work with any victims of sex abuse 09:20:12

12 while you were an attorney? 09:20:16

13 A. No. 09:20:18

14 Q. Okay. And how long were you -- were you 09:20:18

15 an associate at that firm? 09:20:22

16 A. Yes. 09:20:24

17 Q. How long were you an associate there? 09:20:24

18 A. Approximately three years. 09:20:30

19 Q. Okay. And how did you find out about this 09:20:32

20 position of Director of Ethics and SafeSport at the 09:20:37

21 USOC? 09:20:39

22 A. I had made a decision that I wanted to 09:20:41

23 stop practicing law, and found out about it from, 09:20:44

24 actually, a career transition coach. 09:20:48

25 Q. Okay. And had this -- to your knowledge, 09:20:51

Page 22
1 had this Director of Ethics and SafeSport -- who had 09:20:54

2 filled that position prior to you? 09:20:57

3 A. It did not exist before I started. 09:20:59

4 Q. How do you know that? 09:21:00

5 A. Because I -- I -- I mean, I don't remember 09:21:05

6 exactly how it was, but, I mean, it was -- it was 09:21:06

7 fairly clear that it was a new position to the U.S. 09:21:08

8 Olympic Committee, and my responsibility was to 09:21:11

9 build the resources and liaise with individuals who 09:21:14

10 could help build with those resources when I 09:21:18

11 started. 09:21:20

12 Q. And who did you interview with? 09:21:21

13 A. Rana Dershowitz, Rick Adams, Dave McCann 09:21:23

14 and Scott Blackmun. 09:21:28

15 Q. And, Scott Blackmun, what's his title? 09:21:31

16 A. CEO. 09:21:34

17 Q. Okay. And did -- did Mr. Blackmun or any 09:21:37

18 other people you just mentioned tell you what the 09:21:39

19 job would entail? 09:21:42

20 A. Yeah. I mean, we talked -- we talked a 09:21:44

21 fair amount about it, and there was a job 09:21:46

22 description that went with it, so yeah. 09:21:49

23 Q. What was the job description? 09:21:50

24 A. Again, I think the idea was that this 09:21:51

25 individual would serve as a primary liaise to the 09:21:52

Page 23
1 Sport National Governing Bodies, and to coordinate 09:21:57

2 the development of resources to help them prevent 09:22:00

3 and respond to abuse. 09:22:03

4 Q. All right. Did they tell you why they 09:22:04

5 were creating this position? 09:22:06

6 A. It was based on the recommendations of the 09:22:08

7 2010 Working Group for Safe Training Environments. 09:22:11

8 Q. I think I have some stuff in here. We'll 09:22:16

9 talk about that. 09:22:18

10 Tell me more what -- what you know about 09:22:19

11 this 2010, this Working Group. Who -- who 09:22:21

12 coordinated or -- or put together this working 09:22:24

13 group? 09:22:27

14 A. I believe it was at the direction of Scott 09:22:28

15 Blackmun. 09:22:31

16 Q. The CEO? 09:22:32

17 A. Correct. 09:22:33

18 Q. Do you know why Mr. Blackmun put together 09:22:34

19 that working group? 09:22:37

20 A. My understanding is that I believe Scott 09:22:38

21 was relatively new to the CEO position and 09:22:39

22 responding to some media reports about this issue. 09:22:44

23 Q. About what issue? 09:22:48

24 A. About the issue of physical and sexual 09:22:49

25 abuse in sport. 09:22:52

Page 24
1 Q. Do you know if there's a specific instance 09:22:54

2 that prompted Mr. Blackmun to create this Working 09:22:55

3 Group? 09:22:58

4 A. I believe, although I'm not confident, 09:22:59

5 that it was in reaction to some things that were 09:23:00

6 going on with USA Swimming. 09:23:04

7 Q. Okay. And -- and what was your 09:23:06

8 understanding what was going on with USA Swimming? 09:23:07

9 A. There were allegations involving sexual 09:23:12

10 and physical abuse in sport. 09:23:13

11 Q. Okay. And did you have any role in -- 09:23:17

12 in -- strike that. 09:23:19

13 Was there an investigation in -- done into 09:23:20

14 USA Swimming? 09:23:21

15 MS. HOLM: Well, I'm just going to have to 09:23:24

16 impose an objection. Just based upon what you've 09:23:26

17 been told. 09:23:29

18 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Right. If you know. And 09:23:30

19 that's a poor question. 09:23:30

20 Did you have -- was -- was there -- do you 09:23:31

21 have an understanding as to whether or not there was 09:23:32

22 an investigation done into the USA Swimming 09:23:33

23 allegation? 09:23:36

24 A. No. 09:23:37

25 Q. All right. 09:23:37

Page 25
1 A. Actually, that question was really 09:23:37

2 unclear. Can you restate it? 09:23:38

3 Q. Sure. 09:23:40

4 Do you have understanding as to whether or 09:23:41

5 not the USOC did any sort of investigation into the 09:23:42

6 allegations that there were physical and sexual 09:23:47

7 abuse going on in USA Swimming? 09:23:50

8 A. I feel like there are two questions in 09:23:52

9 there; one is was there an investigation, or did I 09:23:55

10 have knowledge of it? What -- is -- is that what 09:23:57

11 you're getting at? 09:23:59

12 Q. Do you have an understanding one -- one 09:24:01

13 way or the other? Was there an investigation or 09:24:02

14 not? 09:24:03

15 A. The USOC -- I -- I don't know. 09:24:03

16 Q. Okay. All right. Had you ever held any 09:24:10

17 position prior to being hired by the USOC involving 09:24:16

18 Ethics and -- and SafeSport? 09:24:21

19 A. No. 09:24:25

20 Q. Okay. And during the interviews, did you 09:24:29

21 discuss your -- your background in -- in biomedical 09:24:37

22 ethics? 09:24:39

23 A. I'm sure we did, yeah. 09:24:41

24 Q. Okay. 09:24:44

25 A. I don't remember it specifically, but yes. 09:24:44

Page 26
1 Q. And did you have any communications or any 09:24:49

2 inter- -- any interaction with the -- the -- I think 09:24:57

3 you called it the Working Board, that Mr. Blackmun 09:24:59

4 had put together? 09:25:02

5 A. The Working Group? 09:25:04

6 Q. The Working Group. 09:25:05

7 A. Yes. 09:25:07

8 Q. All right. How so? 09:25:07

9 A. When I was transitioning into the role, I 09:25:08

10 spoke with Laura Macaulay Peeters, who had been on 09:25:11

11 the 2010 Working Group; you know, spoke a little bit 09:25:16

12 about background. She provided documents that the 09:25:18

13 Working Group had relied on. 09:25:21

14 I would have also spoken with -- with Nina 09:25:24

15 Kemphill in less detail. Laura Macaulay Peeters was 09:25:25

16 really the primary point of contact and the 09:25:30

17 individual I worked with to transition. 09:25:33

18 MR. LITTLE: Can you say the Laurie's name 09:25:35

19 again? 09:25:36

20 A. I'm sorry. Laura -- 09:25:37

21 MR. LITTLE: Laura. 09:25:37

22 A. -- Macaulay, M-A-C-A-U-L-A-Y. Peeters, 09:25:39

23 P-E-E-T-E-R-S. 09:25:39

24 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. What was 09:25:45

25 Ms. Kemphill's title? 09:25:45

Page 27
1 A. She was a USOC Board member. 09:25:50

2 Q. And Ms. Macaulay Peeters? 09:25:57

3 A. I don't remember her title. She was in 09:26:00

4 the legal department. 09:26:03

5 Q. Attorney? 09:26:05

6 A. Correct. 09:26:05

7 Q. All right. How many people made up this 09:26:09

8 Working Group, to your knowledge? 09:26:11

9 A. I -- I wouldn't recall without looking at 09:26:15

10 the document again, but probably ten or so. 09:26:16

11 Q. And what were -- what were their 09:26:19

12 backgrounds, do you remember? 09:26:21

13 A. They came from a variety of backgrounds. 09:26:23

14 So, some of them had legal backgrounds, some of them 09:26:25

15 were coming from the sport world. I think there 09:26:28

16 were some psychologists who had -- who had been in 09:26:30

17 the space, but I -- 09:26:36

18 COURT REPORTER: Some -- some 09:26:36

19 psychologists -- 09:26:36

20 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 09:26:36

21 COURT REPORTER: -- what? 09:26:36

22 THE WITNESS: Who worked in the space. 09:26:36

23 I'm so sorry. 09:26:36

24 COURT REPORTER: Go ahead. 09:26:36

25 MR. ESTEY: Thank you. 09:26:36

Page 28
1 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. So, approximately 09:26:38

2 ten members of this Working Group. And this was 09:26:46

3 formed, again, by Mr. Blackmun of the USOC in -- in 09:26:49

4 looks like 2010, is that right? 09:26:53

5 A. Correct. 09:26:55

6 Q. All right. And what was your 09:26:56

7 understanding of what their job was? 09:26:58

8 A. To, A, assess, you know, whether there was 09:27:02

9 an issue of physical and sexual abuse in sport, and 09:27:05

10 if so, what role the U.S. Olympic Committee could 09:27:08

11 play in addressing that issue. 09:27:13

12 Q. Okay. And were the -- these ten members, 09:27:23

13 were they paid to do this job? 09:27:25

14 A. No. 09:27:28

15 Q. Okay. And do you know how they went about 09:27:28

16 accomplishing their -- their objective? 09:27:33

17 A. Yeah. I mean, I -- I know that there's a 09:27:35

18 methodology section that will set it out far more 09:27:36

19 clearly than I could, but I think the goal was 09:27:42

20 obviously to talk to a lot of different people and 09:27:44

21 to talk to a lot of other organizations and the 09:27:47

22 youth serving space to take a look at best practices 09:27:49

23 and -- and how other organizations were looking this 09:27:51

24 issue. 09:27:53

25 MS. HOLM: Ms. Arrington, if you can kind 09:27:55

Page 29
1 of slow down just a little. You're a fast talker. 09:27:56

2 THE WITNESS: I am a fast talker. 09:27:57

3 MS. HOLM: It's okay. 09:27:59

4 THE WITNESS: It's the way I roll. 09:27:59

5 MS. HOLM: I know. I know. 09:28:00

6 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 09:28:00

7 MR. ESTEY: She's going to beat you up, 09:28:02

8 though. 09:28:04

9 THE WITNESS: Probably could. She 09:28:05

10 looks -- 09:28:05

11 I'm sorry. I will try to slow down. I'm 09:28:05

12 sorry. 09:28:10

13 COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 09:28:10

14 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Who was the CEO, to your 09:28:10

15 knowledge, prior to Mr. Blackmun? 09:28:13

16 A. I don't know. 09:28:15

17 Q. Okay. And do you know when Mr. Blackmun 09:28:15

18 started with the USOC? 09:28:17

19 A. Not with any certainty, no. I think it 09:28:19

20 was -- I think it was 2009, but I don't recall. 09:28:21

21 Q. And do you know why the prior CEO of the 09:28:25

22 USOC had not formed a -- a Working Group to look at 09:28:30

23 the issue of physical and sexual abuse in sport? 09:28:34

24 A. I don't. 09:28:38

25 Q. Did you ever have any discussions with 09:28:40

Page 30
1 Mr. Blackmun as to why he formed this Working Group 09:28:42

2 in 2010? 09:28:45

3 A. Not that I recall. 09:28:47

4 Q. Have you ever had any discussions with 09:28:48

5 Mr. Blackmun about the Working Group? 09:28:50

6 A. Not that I recall. 09:28:57

7 Q. Do you -- do you interact with 09:28:59

8 Mr. Blackmun at all on a daily basis? 09:28:59

9 A. Not on a daily basis, no. 09:29:02

10 Q. How often do you see Mr. Blackmun in any 09:29:04

11 given week? 09:29:06

12 A. I mean, that obviously depends on travel 09:29:07

13 schedules, but, you know, maybe a couple of times 09:29:08

14 a -- a month, maybe a little bit more than that. It 09:29:13

15 really just depends on what's going on and whether 09:29:16

16 he's in the office and whether I'm in the office. 09:29:18

17 Q. All right. Do you ever sit down and 09:29:21

18 discuss what you're doing in your job capacity with 09:29:22

19 him? 09:29:26

20 A. Yes. 09:29:27

21 Q. All right. And what do you guys discuss, 09:29:27

22 in general? 09:29:29

23 A. In general, we, you know, talk a lot about 09:29:30

24 the status of, you know, the U.S. Center for 09:29:33

25 SafeSport. You know, we'll talk about the 09:29:37

Page 31
1 development of the -- you know, historically, the 09:29:38

2 development of the resources and where we were and 09:29:40

3 the development of those resources and a lot of 09:29:42

4 status updates. 09:29:47

5 COURT REPORTER: And a lot of what? 09:29:47

6 THE WITNESS: Status updates. 09:29:47

7 I feel like I need like a megaphone that 09:29:47

8 sort of like naturally slows the -- the speed of my 09:29:52

9 voice down. My apologies. I'm not saying it's 09:29:55

10 going to get better, but I'm still sorry. 09:29:57

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. How long -- 09:30:01

12 strike that. 09:30:11

13 At some point, this -- this ten-member 09:30:11

14 Working Group put out a report, right? 09:30:13

15 Recommendations, right? 09:30:17

16 A. Correct. 09:30:18

17 Q. And when was that? 09:30:19

18 A. September 2010. 09:30:21

19 Q. And you didn't come on until? 09:30:29

20 A. April 2011. 09:30:38

21 Q. 2011, yeah. So, it came out a few months 09:30:39

22 before you got here, right? 09:30:40

23 A. Correct. 09:30:43

24 Q. All right. When you were hired, were you 09:30:43

25 given a -- a copy of their report? 09:30:45

Page 32
1 A. Yes, although I'm fairly sure I would have 09:30:48

2 pulled it before the interview itself. 09:30:51

3 Q. Okay. Why would you have pulled it before 09:30:53

4 the interview? 09:30:58

5 A. It's smart to prepare for the interview 09:30:59

6 for which you are applying. 09:31:00

7 MS. HOLM: Just like Hillary last night. 09:31:02

8 THE WITNESS: I hear preparation is good. 09:31:04

9 MR. ESTEY: Okay. 09:31:06

10 MS. HOLM: Really? 09:31:08

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And so when 09:31:10

12 you pulled the Working Group report prior to your 09:31:12

13 interview, did you read it? 09:31:18

14 A. Yes. 09:31:20

15 Q. All right. And what were your thoughts? 09:31:22

16 MS. HOLM: You know, I'll go ahead and 09:31:27

17 object to that. It's kind of irrelevant and 09:31:29

18 immaterial what her thoughts were, so... 09:31:32

19 MR. ESTEY: Let me -- 09:31:34

20 MS. HOLM: You can answer it if you want. 09:31:34

21 MR. ESTEY: That's okay. 09:31:36

22 MS. HOLM: I'm not to instruct you not to. 09:31:36

23 MR. ESTEY: It's okay. 09:31:36

24 Q. (By Mr. Estey) You read it. Do you have 09:31:39

25 any concerns about what you read in there? 09:31:41

Page 33
1 A. No. 09:31:43

2 Q. Okay. Well, they -- they found that the 09:31:45

3 potential for sexual abuse within sport was pretty 09:31:47

4 high, right? 09:31:51

5 A. No. What they said specifically was that 09:31:52

6 physical and sexual abuse is an issue in society, 09:31:55

7 and therefore, an issue in sport, and they cited the 09:31:58

8 statistics in the general population. 09:32:00

9 They did not make a finding about whether 09:32:04

10 or not it was particularly high in sport. There are 09:32:05

11 no baseline studies in the U.S. that would give us 09:32:08

12 those numbers. 09:32:12

13 Q. Okay. We'll go over the report in a 09:32:12

14 little bit. 09:32:14

15 Did you discuss the report in your 09:32:15

16 inter- -- interview with Mr. Blackmun? 09:32:16

17 A. No. 09:32:18

18 Q. Okay. Were you charged, once you were 09:32:21

19 hired in April of 2011, with implementing any of the 09:32:22

20 recommendations contained within that Working Group 09:32:30

21 report? 09:32:32

22 A. Yes. 09:32:33

23 Q. All right. And which ones? 09:32:33

24 A. All of them. 09:32:34

25 Q. Okay. 09:32:35

Page 34
1 A. Or, you know, they were recommendations. 09:32:38

2 I think the idea was to utilize it as a blueprint 09:32:40

3 for moving forward, I think is a fairer way of 09:32:44

4 stating it. 09:32:49

5 Q. Okay. And what recommendations are you -- 09:32:52

6 that were contained in the report are you in charge 09:33:02

7 of implementing? 09:33:04

8 A. I mean, again, I think -- let's -- let's 09:33:05

9 call it a blueprint, but I can tell you what the 09:33:06

10 recommendations were. 09:33:09

11 The blueprint was that the USOC lead by 09:33:11

12 example, that it play a leadership role, that it 09:33:13

13 provide a tool kit, written resources, policies 09:33:16

14 and -- you know, sample policies and procedures for 09:33:22

15 the Sport National Governing Bodies and encourage 09:33:25

16 them to work with their grassroots organizations to 09:33:28

17 implement and to develop, you know, online training. 09:33:32

18 So, essentially, the idea was to create, 09:33:36

19 you know, sort of a centralized resource for the 09:33:37

20 Sport National Governing Bodies. 09:33:43

21 Q. And did Mr. Blackmun tell you why he 09:33:48

22 wanted the -- this centralized resource -- I can't 09:33:51

23 read my own writing. 09:33:53

24 Did Mr. Blackmun tell you why he wanted 09:34:02

25 the -- this -- the recommendations implemented? 09:34:05

Page 35
1 A. No. Not that I recall. 09:34:06

2 Q. All right. Did he give you a time -- did 09:34:07

3 he give you a timeline on -- on how long they want 09:34:09

4 to -- when they wanted you to have these 09:34:12

5 recommendations implemented? 09:34:15

6 A. Not that I recall. 09:34:17

7 Q. Have they all been implemented as of 09:34:19

8 today? 09:34:22

9 A. I'd have to look at the report and sort of 09:34:23

10 do a side by side. Sorry. 09:34:26

11 MS. HOLM: I have a feeling you're going 09:34:27

12 to get to do that. 09:34:30

13 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 09:34:32

14 MR. ESTEY: Yeah. We'll get there. 09:34:32

15 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. Well, you 09:34:34

16 mentioned earlier, though, and -- as of 09:34:35

17 December 31st, 2013, the NGBs were required to 09:34:37

18 comply with SafeSport, is that right? 09:34:45

19 A. They were required to comply with, I 09:34:47

20 believe the title is now something like Minimum 09:34:52

21 Standards For Athlete -- or, no, it's the Athlete 09:34:55

22 Safety Policy Around Minimum Standards. That's 09:34:58

23 different than SafeSport -- all -- all of the 09:35:01

24 SafeSport resources that are available. 09:35:03

25 MR. LITTLE: Can -- can you say it again? 09:35:06

Page 36
1 What's -- what's -- 09:35:07

2 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I'm -- just stick 09:35:07

3 with me for a second. It's a really long name. 09:35:10

4 I believe it's Minimum Standards for 09:35:14

5 Athlete Safety Policy. 09:35:16

6 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And so as of 09:35:20

7 December 31st, 2013, the NGBs had to comply with the 09:35:25

8 Minimum Standards for Athletes Safety Policy, is 09:35:30

9 that right? 09:35:34

10 A. Correct. 09:35:34

11 Q. Were they required to do anything else in 09:35:35

12 that regard? 09:35:37

13 A. I'm sorry. I don't understand your 09:35:38

14 question. 09:35:40

15 Q. Well, did the USO -- if the USOC required 09:35:41

16 the NGBs as of December of 2013 to comply with the 09:35:44

17 Minimum Standards for Athletes Safety Policy, were 09:35:49

18 the NGBs required to comply with any other policies? 09:35:53

19 MS. HOLM: In general, or related to -- 09:35:58

20 MR. ESTEY: Related to SafeSport. 09:36:00

21 A. Yeah. They would have needed to comply 09:36:04

22 with the Olympic Training Center Access Policy, and 09:36:07

23 there was a provision in the USOC's Code of Conduct 09:36:16

24 that had sort of the -- sort of the -- you know, the 09:36:25

25 provisions around physical and sexual abuse applying 09:36:31

Page 37
1 to the NGBs. 09:36:34

2 Q. (By Mr. Estey) What provisions regarding 09:36:37

3 sexual abuse? 09:36:39

4 A. In 2011, the USOC's Code of Conduct was 09:36:41

5 modified to include a provision that essentially 09:36:45

6 stated that physical and sexual abuse, or -- you 09:36:48

7 know, is intolerable, and, you know, in conflict 09:36:51

8 with Olympic ideals, and that they're basically 09:36:54

9 obviously prohibited, and that, you know, anyone who 09:36:56

10 became aware of, you know, some -- one of those 09:36:59

11 forms of abuse needed to report it. 09:37:04

12 Q. And that policy wasn't in effect before 09:37:07

13 2011? 09:37:09

14 A. Well, it was -- it was USOC's Code of 09:37:13

15 Conduct. 09:37:13

16 Q. Right. 09:37:16

17 A. So, I don't think that that provision was 09:37:16

18 in the Code of Conduct. I mean, I think we can all 09:37:19

19 agree that to the extent we're talking about 09:37:21

20 physical and sexual abuse, it has long been 09:37:24

21 prohibited by criminal law. 09:37:26

22 THE WITNESS: Sorry. I speak too fast. 09:37:26

23 Did you hear me? Or do you need me to go back? 09:37:26

24 COURT REPORTER: In the event we were all 09:37:26

25 talking about physical and sexual abuse -- 09:37:26

Page 38
1 THE WITNESS: Oh, I said I think we can 09:37:26

2 all agree that it has been prohibit under -- 09:37:26

3 prohibited under criminal law for a long time. 09:37:26

4 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Do you know what grooming 09:37:46

5 is? 09:37:47

6 A. Depends which context we're talking about 09:37:49

7 it. 09:37:52

8 Q. Sexual predators' grooming habits. 09:37:53

9 A. Yes. 09:37:55

10 Q. All right. Tell me what you know about 09:37:56

11 that, please. 09:37:57

12 A. You know, essentially, the grooming 09:37:57

13 behaviors of -- I mean, you know, I think most of 09:37:59

14 the time they sort of break it down into six steps, 09:38:03

15 if you will, but it refers to those six steps of how 09:38:06

16 a predator gains access, gains trust, and ultimately 09:38:09

17 sexualizes a relationship, and, you know, enables 09:38:11

18 them to sort of keep it a secret. 09:38:16

19 Q. Okay. So, it's a situation where the 09:38:19

20 predator gets the -- the victim comfortable and they 09:38:20

21 begin to push the boundaries with the victim, right? 09:38:23

22 A. Yeah. I mean, I -- I guess I want to be a 09:38:28

23 little careful about the terminology that we're 09:38:30

24 using, but yes. 09:38:33

25 Q. Where -- where did you learn about 09:38:35

Page 39
1 grooming? 09:38:35

2 A. You know, I learned about it from working 09:38:36

3 with outside experts; from, you know, the good 09:38:39

4 old-fashioned internet, doing a lot of reading and a 09:38:41

5 lot of -- and a lot of research. 09:38:45

6 Q. When did you first start learning about 09:38:47

7 grooming behavior? 09:38:49

8 A. Probably 2011. 09:38:51

9 Q. Okay. And what experts did you consult 09:38:53

10 with in that regard? 09:38:56

11 A. I mean, again, I did a lot of reading. 09:38:57

12 We -- there are a lot of, you know, 09:38:59

13 individuals in the sport world, like individuals 09:39:02

14 like Celia Brackenridge, or a lot of people who 09:39:05

15 deliver this kind of training; so, any of those 09:39:05

16 organizations that deliver training and other 09:39:10

17 resources around preventing abuse. 09:39:13

18 Q. All right. Does -- does any of the 09:39:17

19 SafeSport material advise the NGBs to -- to watch 09:39:18

20 out for grooming behavior? 09:39:25

21 A. Yes. 09:39:27

22 Q. Okay. And who -- strike that. 09:39:28

23 What does it say in that -- in that 09:39:31

24 regard? 09:39:32

25 A. The -- I mean, I think the primary 09:39:33

Page 40
1 resource for that is in our online training. 09:39:34

2 So, we have an individual prosecutor who 09:39:37

3 walks through those steps and what it can often look 09:39:42

4 like in sport. 09:39:45

5 Q. And prior to 2011, did the USOC have 09:39:47

6 anything to assist the NGBs with in -- in 09:39:52

7 identifying grooming behavior? 09:39:59

8 A. I don't know. 09:40:03

9 Q. Who would -- who would know that? 09:40:03

10 A. I don't know. 09:40:04

11 Q. Would Mr. Blackmun know that? 09:40:05

12 MS. HOLM: That's calling for speculation. 09:40:08

13 Q. (By Mr. Estey) If you know. 09:40:08

14 A. I don't. 09:40:09

15 Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned that the NGBs 09:40:10

16 had to comply with the USOC Access Policy. 09:40:16

17 A. Olympic Training Access Policy? 09:40:22

18 Q. Yeah. I'm sorry. What is that? 09:40:24

19 A. Essentially, it's a policy that requires 09:40:28

20 National Governing Bodies, if they're going to, you 09:40:32

21 know, sa- -- ask for, you know, an individual to 09:40:34

22 have access to the training centers, that they 09:40:38

23 disclose any criminal convictions or any other 09:40:41

24 problematic behaviors that could affect the safety 09:40:45

25 of the individuals on those campuses. 09:40:49

Page 41
1 Q. And what campuses are you talking about? 09:40:52

2 A. I'm talking about like the Olympic 09:40:54

3 Training Center campuses. 09:40:55

4 Q. Here in Colorado Springs? 09:40:58

5 A. It applied to all three -- or it does 09:40:59

6 apply to all three OTCs -- Olympic Training Centers. 09:41:01

7 Q. We have one in Chula Vista, right? 09:41:03

8 A. I think that's being transferred, but -- 09:41:07

9 Q. Oh, we had one. 09:41:09

10 All right. Do you have any role about -- 09:41:11

11 with -- with creating policies to protect athletes 09:41:17

12 in relation to their stay at the U.S. Olympic 09:41:20

13 training facilities? 09:41:24

14 A. I have -- I have worked on some policies 09:41:30

15 related to that, yes. 09:41:32

16 Q. What policies have you worked on? 09:41:34

17 A. The Olympic Training Center Access Policy. 09:41:36

18 The U.S. Olympic Committee SafeSport policies. The 09:41:38

19 Minimum Standards would affect that as well. I'm 09:41:43

20 trying to think if there's anything else. That's 09:41:45

21 what I can recall right now. 09:41:55

22 Q. Okay. To your knowledge, did USA 09:41:58

23 Taekwondo implement the SafeSport initiative, as 09:42:13

24 required, by December 31st, 2013? 09:42:22

25 A. They certified their compliance with the 09:42:26

Page 42
1 minimum standards. 09:42:30

2 Q. What does that mean? 09:42:31

3 A. It means that the -- the deadline for 09:42:32

4 implementing the minimum standards -- and by the 09:42:36

5 way, you know, there were plenty of NGBs who had 09:42:39

6 SafeSport -- you know, the equivalent of what we 09:42:43

7 would call SafeSport today, but as of December 31st, 09:42:46

8 2013, when the minimum standards became a 09:42:48

9 requirement, we required all 47 Sport National 09:42:53

10 Governing Bodies to certify their compliance with 09:42:55

11 those standards. 09:42:59

12 Q. So, some of the other National Governing 09:42:59

13 Bodies were a little more advanced in their policies 09:43:01

14 and procedures in relation to prevention of sexual 09:43:05

15 abuse to the athletes? 09:43:07

16 A. I don't know. Advanced relative to what? 09:43:08

17 Q. Some of the other NGBs had policies and 09:43:13

18 procedures in place prior to 2013 to prevent sexual 09:43:16

19 misconduct, correct? 09:43:21

20 A. Correct. 09:43:22

21 Q. And what did the USA Taekwondo have in 09:43:23

22 place in that regard? 09:43:26

23 A. I don't know. 09:43:28

24 Q. All right. Who's your -- 09:43:28

25 MR. ESTEY: Thanks, man. 09:43:29

Page 43
1 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Who's your -- do you have 09:43:30

2 a point of contact at the USA Taekwondo? 09:43:32

3 A. Yeah. I mean, as of now, yeah. 09:43:39

4 Q. Who is -- who is the point of contact as 09:43:42

5 of now? 09:43:44

6 A. Keith -- Keith Ferguson. 09:43:45

7 Q. And what's his title? 09:43:47

8 A. I -- I don't know whether he's CEO or ED, 09:43:48

9 but it's one of those two terms. 09:43:52

10 Q. Okay. Do you know a -- a lady by the name 09:43:54

11 of Ronda Sweet? 09:44:00

12 A. I do not know her, no. I know -- you 09:44:01

13 know, I've exchanged emails with her, and I'm sure 09:44:02

14 I've spoken with her, but I don't know her, no. 09:44:07

15 Q. Okay. And -- and what -- what types of 09:44:09

16 things have you communicated with Mr. -- Ms. Sweet 09:44:10

17 about? 09:44:12

18 A. Information that, you know, she had -- was 09:44:18

19 transmitting to me via other individuals usually 09:44:21

20 around some sort of sexual misconduct. 09:44:24

21 Q. And do you know what Ms. Sweet's -- did 09:44:27

22 she ever hold a title with USA Taekwondo? 09:44:30

23 A. I believe she did. I don't know what it 09:44:34

24 was. 09:44:35

25 Q. All right. Did Ms. Sweet provide you any 09:44:36

Page 44
1 information with respect to Yazmin Brown's 09:44:44

2 allegation against Mr. Gitelman and USA Taekwondo? 09:44:45

3 A. Sorry. Can you just repeat the question 09:44:54

4 or have it read back? 09:44:56

5 Q. Which one would you prefer? 09:44:59

6 A. It doesn't mat- -- why don't you just have 09:45:01

7 it read back. I don't think the question was 09:45:03

8 confusing. I think I just wasn't listening to you. 09:45:05

9 Q. Kind of like a dog that's -- 09:45:08

10 (Coughing interruption). 09:45:08

11 A. I'm just being honest. It's kind of hard 09:45:09

12 to concentrate all the time. 09:45:10

13 (Coughing interruption). 09:45:13

14 THE WITNESS: Are you all right? 09:45:13

15 MR. LITTLE: Sorry. 09:45:13

16 MS. HOLM: Let the record reflect that the 09:45:14

17 room is filled with sick people. 09:45:16

18 THE WITNESS: I know. 09:45:17

19 MS. HOLM: Including the witness. 09:45:17

20 Mr. Estey is over there smiling and in 09:45:17

21 good, healthy, robust shape. 09:45:21

22 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Could you 09:45:23

23 have -- could I have the question read back? Thank 09:45:24

24 you. 09:45:26

25 (Last question read back). 09:45:26

Page 45
1 A. Yes. 09:45:55

2 Q. (By Mr. Estey) What type of information 09:45:55

3 did she provide you? 09:45:56

4 A. It was after -- I believe it was sometime 09:46:00

5 after Yazmin Brown had already contacted me and/or 09:46:07

6 already filed her complaint with USA Taekwondo. 09:46:10

7 But as, sort of, USA Taekwondo moved 09:46:12

8 through its process, she would occasionally check in 09:46:22

9 and provide what she understood to be the status of 09:46:25

10 USA Taekwondo's proceedings. 09:46:28

11 Q. Did you have any role in -- in 09:46:33

12 investigating Yazmin Brown's allegations against 09:46:37

13 Gitelman and USAT? 09:46:42

14 A. No. 09:46:44

15 Q. Do you know why Sweet and/or Brown sent 09:46:48

16 you information regarding those allegations? 09:46:52

17 MS. HOLM: Objection. It would call for 09:46:54

18 speculation. 09:46:55

19 But if she told you, you can answer. 09:46:56

20 MR. OKAMURA: I join. 09:46:59

21 A. What I understand is that she had 09:47:03

22 contacted either Don Parker or Gary Johansen to sort 09:47:07

23 of ask where she might be able to find additional 09:47:13

24 resources for her. 09:47:14

25 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. And did you have 09:47:18

Page 46
1 direct communications with Ms. Brown? 09:47:19

2 A. Yes. 09:47:23

3 Q. And can you tell us about that 09:47:24

4 communication? 09:47:26

5 A. She forwarded -- sort of on Don Parker's 09:47:28

6 recommendation, she forwarded her Complaint to me, 09:47:31

7 and sort of requested some assistance in terms of 09:47:37

8 how she might basically better support her 09:47:43

9 allegations against Mr. Gitelman. 09:47:47

10 Q. When you got the Complaint, did you read 09:47:49

11 it? 09:47:51

12 A. Yes. 09:47:52

13 Q. Did you have any concerns? 09:47:52

14 A. Yes. 09:47:57

15 Q. What were your concerns? 09:47:58

16 A. I mean, I think it's always concerning 09:47:59

17 when you hear allegations that a coach has had a 09:48:02

18 sexual relationship with an athlete. 09:48:05

19 Q. Okay. So, once you read that and had 09:48:07

20 these concerns, what did you do next? 09:48:09

21 A. I suggested that Ms. Brown and I speak by 09:48:11

22 phone. 09:48:14

23 Q. Okay. And did that happen? 09:48:14

24 A. Yes. 09:48:17

25 Q. All right. And how long did that 09:48:18

Page 47
1 conversation last? 09:48:21

2 A. I -- I don't recall. I just -- I don't 09:48:23

3 recall. 09:48:26

4 Q. What did she say, what did you say? 09:48:26

5 A. I don't recall specifically. I do know 09:48:30

6 that, you know, at some point it was my 09:48:31

7 understanding that she indicated at some time some 09:48:34

8 point in that conversation that she was represented 09:48:38

9 by legal counsel, so I think I would have then 09:48:40

10 encouraged her to -- to work with her legal counsel 09:48:43

11 on the issue. 09:48:46

12 Q. Generally, what do you recall about the 09:48:47

13 conversation? 09:48:49

14 A. That's -- what -- what I just said is what 09:48:49

15 I recall. 09:48:51

16 Q. You -- do you remember anything else about 09:48:51

17 that conversation? 09:48:53

18 A. No. 09:48:53

19 Q. And do you know how long the conversation 09:48:55

20 lasted? 09:48:58

21 A. Nope. 09:48:59

22 Q. Do you have any -- any -- any estimate at 09:49:00

23 all? 09:49:04

24 A. I -- no, I really don't. I mean, 10, 15 09:49:08

25 minutes. It wouldn't have lasted very long. 09:49:10

Page 48
1 Q. All right. And after you had that 09:49:13

2 conversation with Ms. Brown, did you discuss that 09:49:15

3 conversation with -- with anyone at the USOC? 09:49:18

4 A. Yes. 09:49:22

5 Q. Who? 09:49:22

6 A. Rana Dershowitz. 09:49:22

7 Q. Well, she was an attorney, though, right? 09:49:24

8 A. Correct. 09:49:26

9 Q. All right. You talk about the 09:49:30

10 conversation with anyone else? 09:49:32

11 A. Not -- I don't recall doing so at the 09:49:36

12 time, no. 09:49:38

13 Q. Did you ever have discussions with Ms. -- 09:49:39

14 actually, with Blackmun regarding that phone call 09:49:41

15 you had with Brown? 09:49:45

16 A. No. 09:49:47

17 Q. Did you ever discuss the Brown allegations 09:49:47

18 with Blackmun in any manner? 09:49:50

19 MS. HOLM: Mr. Blackmun? 09:49:53

20 MR. ESTEY: Yeah. Mr. Blackmun. I never 09:49:54

21 met him. Sorry. Mr. Blackmun. 09:49:54

22 A. I don't recall. 09:50:01

23 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And so after 09:50:04

24 that phone call with Ms. Brown, did you have any 09:50:09

25 other communication with anyone regarding the 09:50:11

Page 49
1 Gitelman issue? 09:50:16

2 A. Yes. 09:50:19

3 Q. Who? 09:50:20

4 A. I would have spoken with John Ruger. 09:50:23

5 Q. And then Ruger is the Ombudsman? 09:50:26

6 Mr. Ruger? 09:50:28

7 A. Ruger was the USOC's Ombudsman at the 09:50:29

8 time, yes. 09:50:32

9 Q. What's an Ombudsman? 09:50:33

10 A. The Ombudsman is, sort of under the Ted 09:50:37

11 Stevens Act, designated as an independent individual 09:50:40

12 who can help provide independent confidential and -- 09:50:47

13 and neutral advice about processes, I think -- 09:50:49

14 Q. To whom? 09:50:55

15 A. It can be, I think, you know, athletes, 09:50:57

16 coaches, anybody who's, you know, undergoing a 09:51:00

17 process. 09:51:03

18 Q. All right. Why did you talk to Ruger 09:51:03

19 about the Brown allegations against Gitelman and 09:51:04

20 USAT? 09:51:07

21 A. At some point, Ronda Sweet was -- was 09:51:10

22 sending out a fair number of emails, and he would 09:51:13

23 have been on them. 09:51:15

24 And I believe Mr. Ruger has known -- or 09:51:17

25 had known Ms. Sweet from -- you know, had known her 09:51:19

Page 50
1 for several years, and, you know, again, he was on 09:51:22

2 the emails, so... 09:51:25

3 Q. What did you and Mr. Ruger talk about in 09:51:27

4 that regard? 09:51:29

5 A. I mean, I think we, you know, talked a 09:51:31

6 fair amount about, you know, trying to get feedback 09:51:33

7 to Ronda Sweet, and, you know, depending on what 09:51:41

8 time it would have been, sort of trying to 09:51:45

9 understand where USA Taekwondo was in the process 09:51:47

10 and what issues were going on at the time. 09:51:52

11 Q. Were -- were you kept abreast of what 09:51:55

12 USAT -- USA Taekwondo was -- was doing in connection 09:51:57

13 with the -- the Gitelman issue? 09:52:02

14 A. Not as it was happening, no. 09:52:05

15 Q. Did someone tell you afterwards, or -- or 09:52:07

16 at some point, how USA Taekwondo handled the -- the 09:52:08

17 Gitelman allegations? 09:52:12

18 A. Yeah, we would -- yeah. I mean, I would 09:52:14

19 learn about it after it had happened, yes. 09:52:16

20 Q. From whom? 09:52:18

21 A. Ronda Sweet mostly. 09:52:21

22 Q. Did you ever call anyone from USA 09:52:25

23 Taekwondo to find out, you know, what was going on 09:52:28

24 with the Gitelman allegations? 09:52:32

25 A. Yes. 09:52:34

Page 51
1 Q. Who? 09:52:35

2 A. I would have spoken with Bruce Harris. At 09:52:37

3 some point, I'm sure there was some exchange with 09:52:43

4 Steven Hess. 09:52:46

5 Q. Hess is an attorney, right? 09:52:50

6 A. Correct. 09:52:52

7 Q. But he's not your attorney, right? 09:52:53

8 A. Correct. 09:52:55

9 Q. Tell me everything you and Hess talked 09:52:55

10 about, please. 09:52:57

11 A. Again, it would have been sort of a status 09:52:58

12 update, like, What can you tell us about what's 09:53:00

13 going on. You know, this is what -- what we're 09:53:04

14 hearing. Where you are you guys in the process? 09:53:05

15 Where will you be going in the process? 09:53:07

16 Q. And why do you want this information? 09:53:10

17 A. You know, I think part of what we want to 09:53:12

18 be able to do is to work with the Sport National 09:53:15

19 Governing Bodies and make sure they've got the right 09:53:18

20 resources, and, you know, just make sure that 09:53:22

21 they're keeping things on track to the extent that 09:53:26

22 we can. 09:53:29

23 Q. To make sure they're making the right 09:53:30

24 decisions, right? 09:53:32

25 A. I don't know what that means. 09:53:33

Page 52
1 Q. Well, you -- you want to make sure the 09:53:34

2 NGBs, like USAT, is keeping their athletes safe, 09:53:36

3 right? 09:53:40

4 A. Yes. 09:53:41

5 Q. Okay. And so if there is an allegation 09:53:41

6 that the coach is a pedophile, you want to make sure 09:53:43

7 that the NGB, like USA Taekwondo, gets rid of that 09:53:46

8 pedophile, right? 09:53:50

9 A. I don't think that, in this particular 09:53:52

10 case, we were talking about pedophilia, but, of 09:53:53

11 course, we would be concerned that if there was any 09:53:54

12 sort of pedophilia, that that individual not be 09:53:58

13 involved, yes. 09:54:01

14 Q. Well, what's your definition of 09:54:02

15 "pedophilia"? 09:54:03

16 A. My definition of pedophilia would be an 09:54:05

17 individual who is attracted to individuals who are 09:54:05

18 pre-adolescent. 09:54:09

19 Q. Pre-adolescent, which is what -- what age? 09:54:11

20 A. It depends on the individual, obviously. 09:54:14

21 Q. Well, let's say a 15-year-old girl. 09:54:16

22 A. I don't know. I mean, again, I would have 09:54:19

23 to know a lot more about the girl. 09:54:21

24 I mean, listen, let's not quarrel too much 09:54:22

25 over the terms. The point is, if we have an 09:54:25

Page 53
1 individual who is -- with an imbalance of power who 09:54:27

2 is taking advantage of somebody else in a sexual 09:54:30

3 manner, yes, that is concerning to me. 09:54:32

4 Q. All right. And that's -- you want to make 09:54:36

5 sure your -- that -- that the National Governing 09:54:37

6 Bodies are -- are getting rid of any person who 09:54:37

7 has -- in an imbalance of power situation, who is 09:54:41

8 having sexual relations with an underage female, 09:54:44

9 right? 09:54:48

10 MS. HOLM: I'll object to the form of the 09:54:49

11 question. It's argumentative. 09:54:50

12 If you can answer it, go ahead. 09:54:51

13 A. I mean, yes, obviously we want to make 09:54:55

14 sure that the environments in which athletes are 09:54:57

15 training in, competing in, are safe. 09:55:03

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Right. 09:55:07

17 And if you found out that one of the 09:55:07

18 National Governing Bodies was not doing its job in 09:55:10

19 preventing a coach from having sexual relations with 09:55:21

20 an underage female, what would the USOC's response 09:55:25

21 be? 09:55:33

22 MR. OKAMURA: Objection. Calls for 09:55:34

23 speculation. Incomplete hypothetical. 09:55:35

24 MS. HOLM: I was going to say exactly the 09:55:38

25 same thing. 09:55:40

Page 54
1 THE WITNESS: Could I have the question 09:55:42

2 read back to me, please? 09:55:43

3 (last question read back). 09:55:44

4 MS. HOLM: I also want to throw in vague 09:56:06

5 and ambiguous as phrased. 09:56:06

6 And what do you mean by "you"? If this 09:56:06

7 particular witness found out something? 09:56:06

8 MR. OKAMURA: I'll join those objections 09:56:13

9 as well. 09:56:13

10 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Do you understand the 09:56:16

11 question? 09:56:17

12 A. I really don't think I do. I'm sorry. 09:56:17

13 Could you -- 09:56:19

14 Q. Sure? 09:56:20

15 A. Could you -- could you rephrase it? 09:56:20

16 Q. Ma'am, you're -- you're the Director of 09:56:21

17 SafeSport, right? 09:56:21

18 A. Yes. 09:56:21

19 Q. For the USOC, right? Correct? 09:56:21

20 A. Correct. 09:56:25

21 Q. Okay. So, if you, as the Director of 09:56:26

22 SafeSport, found out that one of the USOC's National 09:56:27

23 Governing Bodies was failing to prevent one of its 09:56:29

24 coaches from having sexual relations with an 09:56:36

25 underage female, what would the USOC's response be? 09:56:39

Page 55
1 MR. OKAMURA: Same objections. 09:56:45

2 MS. HOLM: Join. 09:56:46

3 A. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's a -- it's a 09:56:46

4 little bit tough to answer in that sort of vacuum. 09:56:47

5 It is. 09:56:50

6 What I would say is I would do my best to 09:56:52

7 support them and figure out what's going and attempt 09:56:57

8 to get them back on track. 09:57:00

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Attempt to get who back on 09:57:03

10 track? 09:57:05

11 A. Attempt to get the NGB back on track if -- 09:57:06

12 if, in fact, you know -- depending on what's going 09:57:09

13 on and the circumstances, you know, we would -- we 09:57:11

14 would want to support them in -- in, you know, 09:57:12

15 getting that kind of individual out of sport. 09:57:15

16 Q. When you say "get them back on track," 09:57:19

17 what do you mean by that? 09:57:20

18 A. Let's say, for example, for whatever 09:57:30

19 reason, it didn't seem like they were addressing an 09:57:32

20 issue, or they hadn't engaged the right processes, 09:57:36

21 we would, you know, work to help them identify 09:57:39

22 resources that could help them do that, or sort of, 09:57:43

23 you know, potentially suggest other paths. 09:57:47

24 Q. Well, USOC has options in that area in 09:57:51

25 that regard, right? 09:57:55

Page 56
1 MS. HOLM: Well, I have to object to the 09:57:58

2 form of the question. It's vague, ambiguous as "in 09:58:00

3 that area." 09:58:01

4 Q. (By Mr. Estey) For example, USOC could 09:58:03

5 suspend or decertify a National Governing Body if 09:58:05

6 that National Governing Body was not doing its job 09:58:09

7 in preventing coaches from having sexual relations 09:58:12

8 with an underage female. 09:58:16

9 MS. HOLM: Well, objection. Calls for a 09:58:21

10 legal conclusion, calls for speculation, it's an 09:58:23

11 incomplete hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 09:58:26

12 If you can answer the question -- 09:58:29

13 MR. OKAMURA: I join. 09:58:30

14 MS. HOLM: -- as phrased, go ahead. 09:58:30

15 A. It would, I believe, have depended on the 09:58:37

16 timeframe what we're -- that we're talking about. 09:58:38

17 Q. (By Mr. Estey) What do you mean by that? 09:58:41

18 A. There wouldn't have been a mechanism 09:58:45

19 before December of 2013 under which there would have 09:58:51

20 been any mechanism to sort of say, Well, you're not 09:58:59

21 compliant with SafeSport. 09:59:03

22 Q. So, there would -- you're -- you're saying 09:59:05

23 that the USOC didn't have the power, prior to 2013, 09:59:06

24 to decertify or suspend a National Governing Body if 09:59:09

25 that National Governing Body was not doing its job 09:59:15

Page 57
1 in preventing coaches from having sexual relations 09:59:18

2 with an underage female? 09:59:22

3 MS. HOLM: Objection. 09:59:24

4 A. That's not what I'm saying at all. 09:59:25

5 MS. HOLM: Yes. 09:59:27

6 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. What are you saying 09:59:27

7 then? 09:59:28

8 MS. HOLM: Well, no. It's argumentative 09:59:29

9 as phrased. 09:59:30

10 And I was going to object to the question 09:59:31

11 as it was argumentative in and of itself, vague and 09:59:32

12 ambiguous, an incomplete hypothetical and not the 09:59:36

13 testimony of the witness. 09:59:40

14 I would instruct her not to answer that 09:59:41

15 prior question, which she did already, so I don't 09:59:44

16 see how she can answer this question about, "What do 09:59:47

17 you mean by that answer"? 09:59:50

18 If you want to rephrase it, it will be 09:59:51

19 fine. 09:59:53

20 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Prior to -- you -- you 09:59:53

21 mentioned something about 2013, that -- that there 09:59:54

22 was power, as of 2013, for USOC to suspend or 09:59:58

23 decertify a National Governing Body, correct? 10:00:02

24 A. No. 10:00:06

25 MS. HOLM: It's December 2013? 10:00:06

Page 58
1 Is that your testimony? 10:00:12

2 THE WITNESS: No, I don't think so. 10:00:14

3 MS. HOLM: Okay. Then -- 10:00:14

4 MR. ESTEY: Okay. Stop. 10:00:14

5 MS. HOLM: -- don't worry about it. 10:00:16

6 MR. ESTEY: Go back, please, to -- and 10:00:16

7 we'll go back to the 2013 response, and we'll go 10:00:17

8 from there. Thank you. 10:00:20

9 It's -- it's like a page and a half of -- 10:00:21

10 of objections ago. 10:00:21

11 MS. HOLM: It wasn't that long. 10:00:21

12 THE WITNESS: Oh, thank you. 10:00:21

13 (Last answer read back). 10:02:01

14 MR. ESTEY: That's it. 10:02:01

15 COURT REPORTER: Okay. 10:02:01

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Now, what do you mean by 10:02:02

17 that, ma'am? 10:02:04

18 A. What I'm saying is that it was December of 10:02:04

19 2013 that the NGBs were required to implement the 10:02:06

20 minimum standards sort of per the USOC's bylaws. 10:02:11

21 Q. And what was the mechanism to accomplish 10:02:16

22 that objective prior to 2013, if you know? 10:02:18

23 A. I don't. 10:02:23

24 Q. You don't -- 10:02:24

25 A. I mean, I mean, I don't -- yeah, I'm 10:02:25

Page 59
1 not -- I'm not the right person to talk through the 10:02:28

2 mechanics of USOC processes for de- -- 10:02:31

3 decertification or the bases on which they would do 10:02:35

4 that. 10:02:38

5 Q. Who is that person? 10:02:38

6 A. Gary Johansen. 10:02:39

7 COURT REPORTER: Gary what? 10:02:39

8 THE WITNESS: Johansen. 10:02:43

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. I'll be 10:02:44

10 talking to him later. 10:02:46

11 You mentioned this imbalance of power. 10:02:48

12 What do you mean by that? 10:02:50

13 A. Any time there's a -- sort of a -- an 10:02:52

14 imbalance of power, meaning sort of someone has sort 10:02:56

15 of more social status, or they're bigger, they're, 10:03:00

16 you know, higher intellect -- I mean, it can be on a 10:03:03

17 lot of different -- higher intellect. I mean, it 10:03:11

18 can be on a lot of difference bases, that you end up 10:03:12

19 with an imbalance of power. 10:03:14

20 Q. What about a USA Taekwondo coach and -- 10:03:20

21 and -- and an athlete that's he's training, is there 10:03:26

22 an imbalance of power there? 10:03:28

23 A. There could be. 10:03:30

24 Q. How so? 10:03:31

25 A. Depending on that particular relationship 10:03:31

Page 60
1 and when that relationship started, it could be well 10:03:33

2 that that coach has, you know, by virtue of their 10:03:37

3 authority, by virtue of, you know, their ability to 10:03:42

4 affect whether or not somebody is getting into 10:03:45

5 particular competitions; you know, to the extent 10:03:49

6 that they say they control whether or not they can 10:03:51

7 get a scholarship. There are a number of different 10:03:55

8 reasons a coach may well sort of have that 10:03:58

9 additional power over an athlete, depending on the 10:04:01

10 circumstances. 10:04:03

11 Q. Are you familiar with the -- the sport of 10:04:04

12 Taekwondo? 10:04:05

13 A. Only in the broadest sense. 10:04:08

14 Q. All right. Do you know whether or not 10:04:11

15 the -- the students or -- or athletes have to 10:04:13

16 address the coach as "Master"? 10:04:16

17 A. My understanding is that they do. 10:04:18

18 Q. Do you know why they do that? 10:04:21

19 A. I don't. 10:04:22

20 Q. Having to address someone as "Master," 10:04:25

21 would that be something to look at in terms of 10:04:28

22 determining whether or not there's an imbalance of 10:04:31

23 power between a coach and athlete? 10:04:34

24 A. Yes. 10:04:36

25 Q. All right. And how so? 10:04:36

Page 61
1 A. I mean, I think -- I think that part of 10:04:37

2 what we're looking at, if you're referring to 10:04:39

3 somebody as "Master," is the authority structure 10:04:41

4 and, you know, the expectations around how you talk 10:04:45

5 to and interact with somebody else. 10:04:49

6 Q. All right. Have you ever had any 10:04:51

7 discussions with anyone at USOC regarding that 10:04:52

8 potential for imbalance of power in the -- the 10:04:55

9 Taekwondo area between the coaches and the athletes? 10:04:57

10 A. I know I have had conversations about it, 10:05:04

11 I -- I just don't recall who or when I would have 10:05:07

12 had those conversations. 10:05:12

13 Q. In general, what would those conversations 10:05:13

14 consist of? 10:05:15

15 A. I mean, in general, I mean, I think what 10:05:16

16 we talked about is that, you know, given that that 10:05:18

17 expectation that you refer to your coach as 10:05:21

18 "Master," that that does create sort of a potential 10:05:24

19 for that imbalance of power to exist. 10:05:28

20 Q. And if an athlete -- a Taekwondo athlete 10:05:32

21 wants to reach the Olympics, does he or she have to 10:05:41

22 be a -- a member of the USA Taekwondo? 10:05:45

23 A. My understanding is yes. 10:05:50

24 Q. Okay. And do you have an understanding as 10:05:52

25 to how the Olympic Taekwondo athletes are chosen? 10:05:54

Page 62
1 In other words, are they recommended by the USAT, or 10:06:01

2 does USOC go in independently and -- and judge the 10:06:05

3 athletes? 10:06:08

4 A. My understanding, in the generic, without 10:06:09

5 respect to Taekwondo specifically, is that every 10:06:12

6 Sport National Governing Body has selection 10:06:15

7 procedures that are developed by that National 10:06:18

8 Governing Body. 10:06:21

9 Q. All right. And then that National 10:06:23

10 Governing Body at some point recommends to the USOC 10:06:24

11 their chosen Olympic hopefuls, is that right? 10:06:29

12 A. I believe so. I don't know for certain. 10:06:32

13 Q. Who would know that? 10:06:35

14 A. Gary Johansen. 10:06:37

15 Q. Putting an awful lot on his plate. 10:06:39

16 All right. So, I want to go back to the 10:06:45

17 Yaz Brown Complaint. 10:06:46

18 You're getting emails -- you've already 10:06:46

19 spoken to Yaz, you're getting emails from -- from 10:06:51

20 Ronda Sweet, and you're talking to a Mr. Ruger about 10:06:54

21 the situation, right? 10:06:58

22 A. I don't believe I had conversations with 10:07:03

23 Mr. Ruger until perhaps the spring of 2014. 10:07:04

24 Q. Okay. And did you ever inquire as to 10:07:11

25 whether or not Gitelman was suspended by the USAT? 10:07:19

Page 63
1 A. I did not inquire. I received an email 10:07:24

2 indicating that Bruce Harris had suspended him, yes. 10:07:27

3 Q. When -- when did you receive that email? 10:07:31

4 A. October of 2013, I believe. 10:07:33

5 Q. And do you know why Harris sent you that 10:07:36

6 email? 10:07:38

7 A. I think it was forwarded to me. I don't 10:07:39

8 think that he sent it to me directly. I think it 10:07:41

9 may have -- I don't remember who forwarded it, 10:07:45

10 but... 10:07:46

11 Q. And did you have an understanding as to 10:07:46

12 what that suspension entailed? 10:07:48

13 A. Not without looking at the email, no. 10:07:55

14 Q. Do you know -- in your mind, when you 10:07:58

15 received that email that -- that Gitelman had been 10:07:59

16 suspended, did that mean to you that he would no 10:08:03

17 longer be able to -- to coach at USA Taekwondo 10:08:06

18 tournaments? 10:08:08

19 A. Yes. 10:08:12

20 Q. Okay. Do you know if -- after October of 10:08:12

21 2013, whether or not Gitelman coached at USA 10:08:15

22 Taekwondo tournaments? 10:08:18

23 A. I was told by other individuals that he 10:08:24

24 did sometime spring of 2014. 10:08:26

25 Q. Who told you this? 10:08:33

Page 64
1 A. I believe Ronda Sweet. 10:08:38

2 Q. And what was your response? 10:08:40

3 A. In the -- I mean, the information from 10:08:43

4 Ronda would have come via email. 10:08:45

5 I'm sure at that time that may have -- I 10:08:49

6 mean, that may have been when more internal 10:08:51

7 discussions started. 10:08:54

8 You know, this, you know -- this was 10:08:56

9 something that had happened after he had 10:08:57

10 hypothetically or allegedly had -- had coached at 10:08:59

11 these other events, so I'm sure there was some 10:09:03

12 communication at some point with Taekwondo. 10:09:05

13 Q. Did you talk to anyone at USAT after you 10:09:09

14 heard that he had -- that Gitelman had -- had -- had 10:09:13

15 coached after he had been supposedly suspended? 10:09:15

16 A. I don't recall whether I had a 10:09:19

17 conversation with them, you know, after learning of 10:09:20

18 that, or whether I had -- you know, whether it was 10:09:25

19 learning of something else. I mean, there was -- 10:09:28

20 there were certainly conversations. I -- I don't 10:09:30

21 remember the -- the timing and the order of those 10:09:32

22 conversations. 10:09:34

23 Q. Were -- were you upset when you heard that 10:09:34

24 this guy who was supposedly suspended was -- was 10:09:36

25 coaching at these tournaments? 10:09:39

Page 65
1 A. I mean, I -- listen. When I receive that 10:09:43

2 kind of information, I mean, the first thing we 10:09:45

3 always want to do is, you know, try and determine 10:09:47

4 the accuracy of the statements. 10:09:50

5 I mean, if what your asking is would it be 10:09:51

6 problematic from my perspective if that were 10:09:54

7 occurring, you know, yes. 10:09:57

8 Q. Did you look into whether or not Gitelman 10:09:59

9 coached at the USA Taekwond- -- Taekwondo tournament 10:10:01

10 after October of 2013? 10:10:02

11 A. I believe -- I -- I don't know whether I 10:10:09

12 had the conversations or somebody else within the 10:10:10

13 USOC did those inquiries. 10:10:13

14 Q. All right. Did you learn -- did you 10:10:17

15 determine whether or not he had coached following 10:10:18

16 his October 2013 suspension? 10:10:20

17 MS. HOLM: Well, I'll interpose an 10:10:25

18 objection insofar as communications with others who 10:10:25

19 are not lawyers within the USOC. 10:10:28

20 A. My understanding was that he had been at 10:10:40

21 tournaments. Whether they were USAT sanctioned or 10:10:42

22 not, I don't recall, or whether -- you know, or 10:10:46

23 whether it was hosted by somebody else. 10:10:48

24 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And did USOC take any 10:10:51

25 measures to prevent him from coaching at any 10:10:57

Page 66
1 tournaments following his October 2013 suspension? 10:10:59

2 A. The USOC would not have the opportunity 10:11:04

3 authority to do that. 10:11:07

4 Q. Okay. And what -- what do you base that 10:11:08

5 on? 10:11:10

6 A. I base that on a combination of the Ted 10:11:10

7 Stevens Act and the autonomy of the Sport National 10:11:14

8 Governing Bodies. 10:11:17

9 Q. Well, the USOC had the -- the right to 10:11:19

10 suspend or decertify USA Taekwondo in or about late 10:11:21

11 2013 or early 2014, right? 10:11:26

12 MS. HOLM: I'll object to the form of the 10:11:29

13 question. It's argumentative the way you phrased 10:11:30

14 it, but you can answer it if you can. 10:11:31

15 A. It would have had to have been 10:11:35

16 non-compliance with their bylaws or the minimum 10:11:37

17 standards. 10:11:40

18 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. If allowing 10:11:41

19 a -- a coach who had been suspended based upon 10:11:42

20 allegations of sexual misconduct, would that have 10:11:46

21 been a violation of -- of bylaws? 10:11:49

22 A. I can't -- yeah, I can't answer that under 10:11:53

23 Taekwondo's bylaws. 10:11:57

24 Q. Okay. So, you're saying the USOC could 10:12:01

25 not have suspended USA Taekwondo for allowing 10:12:15

Page 67
1 Gitelman to continue to -- to coach these 10:12:19

2 tournaments? 10:12:23

3 A. I can't answer the hypothetical on the way 10:12:24

4 it's phrased. Again, I don't have enough 10:12:27

5 information sitting here right now to answer that. 10:12:29

6 Q. What -- what information do you need? 10:12:32

7 A. I would need to look at Taekwondo's 10:12:34

8 bylaws. I would need to have conversations with, 10:12:35

9 you know, legal folks. I mean, there would be a lot 10:12:39

10 of different ind- -- there are a lot of different 10:12:42

11 things that would, I think, go into that analysis. 10:12:44

12 Q. Did you do that analysis after -- after 10:12:47

13 you heard that Gitelman was coaching post 10:12:48

14 October 2013 suspension? 10:12:51

15 MS. HOLM: It's argumentative as phrased. 10:12:53

16 If you can answer the question, go ahead. 10:12:55

17 Assumes it should have been done. 10:12:59

18 A. It would not have been a violation of the 10:13:17

19 minimum standards. And so, from my perspective, the 10:13:18

20 minimum standards sort of would have lived with me 10:13:23

21 and/or audit. I -- I don't recall anything, you 10:13:26

22 know, vis-a-vis their bylaws. 10:13:30

23 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Did you call up Harris and 10:13:32

24 say, Hey, I -- I heard Gitelman's coaching, he's 10:13:34

25 supposed to be suspended, what's going on? 10:13:37

Page 68
1 A. I don't recall whether it was Bruce Harris 10:13:40

2 or who it was. I just don't remember. 10:13:41

3 Q. Did you call up anyone at USA Taekwondo 10:13:44

4 and have that conversation; Hey, why is Gitelman 10:13:46

5 coaching, he's supposed to be suspended? 10:13:49

6 A. I don't remember whether it was me or 10:13:53

7 whether it was somebody else within the USOC. There 10:13:54

8 were conversations around that, right? I mean, 10:13:56

9 again, at some point, you know, an email came from 10:13:58

10 Ronda Sweet, and at some point, there were questions 10:14:02

11 asked about what was going on with that. 10:14:06

12 Q. And what was USA Taekwondo's response? 10:14:07

13 A. I don't recall. 10:14:17

14 Q. All right. You mentioned an audit under 10:14:17

15 the Ted Stevens Sports Act. What do you mean by 10:14:18

16 that? 10:14:22

17 A. It's not under the Ted Stevens Sports Act. 10:14:22

18 It's through the audit department. 10:14:26

19 Q. Okay. What does that mean, though? 10:14:28

20 A. Historically, you know, the audit 10:14:30

21 department looks at things like financial -- you 10:14:36

22 know, financial capabilities, you know, things like 10:14:39

23 that. 10:14:45

24 Once the minimum standards were 10:14:47

25 implemented, and, you know, a period of time had 10:14:48

Page 69
1 passed, there was an audit component added to look 10:14:56

2 at whether or not NGBs were complying with the 10:15:00

3 minimum standards. 10:15:03

4 Q. Did USOC ever determine -- strike that. 10:15:07

5 After there were conversations between 10:15:17

6 USOC and USA Taekwondo regarding Gitelman continuing 10:15:18

7 to coach following his October 2013 suspension, I 10:15:22

8 mean... 10:15:26

9 MR. ESTEY: No. Yeah, I do actually. I 10:15:26

10 lost my train of thought. 10:15:26

11 (Last question read back). 10:15:27

12 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Strike that whole 10:15:27

13 question. 10:15:59

14 Did USOC ever tell USAT to enforce the 10:15:59

15 suspension of Gitelman? 10:16:02

16 MS. HOLM: Well, object to the form of the 10:16:05

17 question. Calls for speculation. 10:16:05

18 But if you know, one way or another, 10:16:07

19 answer. 10:16:09

20 THE WITNESS: I don't. 10:16:10

21 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. Who would know? 10:16:10

22 A. I don't know. 10:16:11

23 Q. All right. Are you familiar with the 10:16:12

24 official suspension list that USA Taekwondo has on 10:16:20

25 its website? 10:16:24

Page 70
1 A. Only in the generic sense from the 10:16:25

2 perspective that I understand they have one. 10:16:27

3 Q. Do you know when Gitelman was -- what the 10:16:31

4 date of suspension that's on that -- that -- that 10:16:34

5 website regarding Gitelman? 10:16:36

6 A. I don't. Again, I received an email that 10:16:39

7 I believe was a forward indicating he had been 10:16:41

8 suspended, and that was my understanding. 10:16:44

9 Q. Were -- were -- when you heard that 10:16:46

10 Gitelman was continuing to coach after his 10:16:47

11 suspension in October 2013, were you concerned about 10:16:50

12 the safety of the -- the athletes? 10:16:53

13 A. Yes. 10:16:55

14 Q. All right. And how so? 10:16:57

15 A. I mean, again, you know, any time there is 10:17:00

16 an individual who allegedly has a pattern of having 10:17:05

17 sexual relationships with their athletes, that's 10:17:08

18 always going to be concerning. 10:17:15

19 On the other hand, my understanding was 10:17:18

20 that he had been suspended. I don't know how he 10:17:19

21 ended up coaching at those tournaments, but going 10:17:22

22 back to the concept of grooming, you know, it's -- 10:17:25

23 it's -- you know, it's less likely that an 10:17:29

24 individual who's going to a one-off tournament is 10:17:31

25 going to be in a position that they're going to be 10:17:34

Page 71
1 developing a relationship such that they can have 10:17:37

2 that -- that grooming period take place, right? I 10:17:41

3 mean, it takes place over a period of time. 10:17:44

4 Q. Well, if -- if you were concerned about 10:17:46

5 the safety of the athletes after Gitelman was 10:17:47

6 coaching following suspension, what did the USOC do 10:17:53

7 to prevent him from continuing to coach? 10:17:55

8 A. The USOC does not have the authority to do 10:17:59

9 anything. 10:18:02

10 Q. But it has the authority to tell it's 10:18:02

11 National Governing Body to do something, correct? 10:18:03

12 A. No. Not correct. 10:18:07

13 Q. Why not? 10:18:08

14 MS. HOLM: Well, it's objected. 10:18:10

15 Objection. Argumentative as phrased. 10:18:10

16 I instruct you not to answer the "why 10:18:10

17 not." 10:18:15

18 A. Sorry. Is -- is the question why doesn't 10:18:17

19 the USOC have that authority? 10:18:20

20 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Yeah. 10:18:23

21 A. Again, I think it goes back to the Ted 10:18:23

22 Stevens Act and the autonomy that National Governing 10:18:26

23 Bodies have over their own processes. 10:18:28

24 Q. What portion of the Ted Stevens Act are 10:18:32

25 you referring to? 10:18:34

Page 72
1 A. I don't know. I mean, I'd have to -- 10:18:35

2 there -- it's a pretty thick document. I'd have to 10:18:36

3 look at it. 10:18:38

4 MR. OKAMURA: Counsel, at the next 10:18:41

5 opportunity, can we take a break? 10:18:41

6 MR. ESTEY: Yeah. We can take a break 10:18:46

7 right now if you want. 10:18:46

8 MR. OKAMURA: I just need to use the -- 10:18:48

9 MR. ESTEY: That's fine. We can take a 10:18:48

10 five-minute break. 10:18:51

11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of 10:18:53

12 Media Unit Number 1 in the deposition of Malia 10:18:53

13 Arrington. We're off the record at 10:19 a.m. 10:18:58

14 (A recess was taken from 10:19 a.m. to 10:19:04

15 10:29 a.m.) 10:19:04

16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the beginning 10:29:02

17 of Media Unit 2 in the deposition of Malia 10:29:10

18 Arrington. We're back on the record at 10:29 a.m. 10:29:12

19 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Do you know who a Mandy 10:29:16

20 Meloon is? 10:29:16

21 A. No. 10:29:19

22 Q. Ever heard of a Mandy Meloon? 10:29:19

23 MS. HOLM: Separate and apart from any 10:29:22

24 conversations you've had with attorneys in this 10:29:24

25 matter. 10:29:26

Page 73
1 A. No. 10:29:26

2 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Have you ever seen an 10:29:27

3 opinion by an arbitrator in the matter of Mandy 10:29:28

4 Meloon and USA Taekwondo? 10:29:33

5 A. No. 10:29:37

6 Q. Did you ever discuss the -- the case of 10:29:39

7 Mandy Meloon with the ten-member Working Panel? 10:29:41

8 A. No. 10:29:46

9 Is that loud enough for everyone? 10:29:55

10 Q. I'm fine. I have no complaints. 10:29:58

11 A. Okay. All right. 10:30:00

12 Q. I'm going to show you what's marked as 10:30:06

13 Exhibit 1 to your deposition. 10:30:07

14 MR. ESTEY: Here's a couple copies for you 10:30:16

15 guys. 10:30:19

16 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 1 was 10:30:19

17 identified.) 10:30:19

18 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And this is -- it looks 10:30:30

19 like a press release about you, right? 10:30:31

20 A. Yes. 10:30:35

21 Q. Have you ever seen this before? 10:30:36

22 A. Yes. 10:30:39

23 Q. All right. And -- 10:30:39

24 MS. HOLM: Just for the record, the date 10:30:41

25 is April 20th, 2011. 10:30:42

Page 74
1 MR. ESTEY: Right. 10:30:43

2 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And did you have any role 10:30:44

3 in -- in writing this? 10:30:45

4 A. No. Not beyond, you know, fact-checking 10:30:52

5 in terms of what they were stating. 10:30:55

6 Q. All right. And then it says, "The USOC 10:30:57

7 has hired Malia Arrington as Director of Ethics and 10:30:58

8 SafeSport," right? 10:31:03

9 A. Correct. 10:31:05

10 Q. That's you? 10:31:06

11 A. Correct. 10:31:06

12 Q. And it says, "The position was created as 10:31:06

13 a result of the recommendations of the USOC's 10:31:08

14 Working Group for Safe Training Environments? 10:31:10

15 A. Yes. 10:31:14

16 Q. And that's the Working Group we've been 10:31:14

17 talking about, right? 10:31:17

18 A. Correct. 10:31:18

19 Q. Okay. And apparently in that report, the 10:31:19

20 Working Group encouraged USOC to take a leadership 10:31:21

21 role in promoting safe training environments, is 10:31:25

22 that right? 10:31:29

23 A. Correct. 10:31:30

24 Q. And like we talked about, your job's going 10:31:34

25 to be to encourage the NGBs to adopt policies, 10:31:41

Page 75
1 practices, programs and tools to address sexual and 10:31:44

2 physical misconduct, right? 10:31:52

3 A. I'm sorry. Where are you looking right 10:31:53

4 now? 10:31:55

5 Q. The third paragraph, last sentence. 10:31:55

6 MS. HOLM: Well, the middle of the last 10:31:58

7 sentence. 10:32:00

8 THE WITNESS: Here? 10:32:06

9 MS. HOLM: Yes. Right there. 10:32:08

10 A. Okay. So, internal ethics program -- 10:32:09

11 sorry. 10:32:13

12 MS. HOLM: Sorry. Here. It's right up 10:32:15

13 here. 10:32:17

14 THE WITNESS: I can't read. 10:32:18

15 MS. HOLM: There you go. 10:32:18

16 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 10:32:18

17 A. Correct. 10:32:24

18 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And then other than USA 10:32:25

19 Swimming, were -- were -- were you aware, when you 10:32:26

20 were hired by the USOC, of any other instances or 10:32:29

21 allegations of sexual misconduct in the National 10:32:34

22 Governing Bodies? 10:32:39

23 A. No. 10:32:41

24 Q. All right. And it looks like about 10:32:44

25 Mr. Blackmun says, "Ensuring young athletes are able 10:32:46

Page 76
1 to train in a safe environment is an incredibly high 10:32:49

2 priority for our organization." 10:32:54

3 Do you agree with that statement? 10:32:56

4 A. Yes. 10:32:58

5 Q. And then it says -- he says, "Malia is a 10:33:06

6 great fit for this new and important position, and 10:33:08

7 we're grateful that she's agreed to help us 10:33:11

8 implement initiatives which will help us to keep 10:33:14

9 kids safe." 10:33:18

10 A. Correct. 10:33:20

11 Q. Do you believe, since you've been Director 10:33:21

12 of SafeSport at USOC, that you've kept the athletes 10:33:23

13 safe? 10:33:28

14 A. I'm not really sure what you mean by that 10:33:32

15 question. Can you just rephrase it a little bit? 10:33:35

16 Q. Sure. 10:33:39

17 You see -- you see here that Blackmun says 10:33:39

18 that, you, Malia, have agreed to help us, which is 10:33:41

19 the USOC, implement initiatives which will help us 10:33:47

20 to keep the kids safe, right? 10:33:51

21 A. Correct. 10:33:54

22 Q. And do you believe that you have -- since 10:33:54

23 you've been hired by the USOC, that you have helped 10:33:57

24 keep the kids safe? 10:34:00

25 MS. HOLM: Well, you're misstating what 10:34:02

Page 77
1 you -- it says. It says "help up implement 10:34:03

2 initiatives, which will help." 10:34:06

3 MR. ESTEY: That's -- that's a good point. 10:34:07

4 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Do you believe you have 10:34:09

5 implemented initiatives which has helped the USOC to 10:34:09

6 keep the kids safe? 10:34:14

7 A. I -- I -- I would say that what I have 10:34:15

8 done is I have implemented initiatives and resources 10:34:17

9 that assist the National Governing Bodies in helping 10:34:21

10 to keep their athletes safe. 10:34:24

11 Q. And which -- which initiatives and 10:34:27

12 resources are you referring to, ma'am? 10:34:29

13 A. The majority of the resources exist on 10:34:31

14 SafeSport.org. They do include those sample 10:34:34

15 policies and procedures, frequently asked questions, 10:34:38

16 tips, a free video-based online training, and, you 10:34:41

17 know, myriad other resources. 10:34:46

18 Q. Myriad. Are there other specific 10:34:51

19 resources you're talking about? 10:34:56

20 A. Through SafeSport.org. I just -- I don't 10:34:58

21 have the website architecture memorized, so, by way 10:35:00

22 of example. 10:35:05

23 Q. All right. Here is the Working Group 10:35:07

24 report. We're going to spend some time. 10:35:09

25 You've seen this before today? 10:35:11

Page 78
1 A. Sorry? 10:35:15

2 Q. You've seen this before today? 10:35:16

3 A. Correct. 10:35:18

4 Q. And this is Exhibit 2, and it's dated 10:35:19

5 September 28, 2010, and it's entitled, "Working 10:35:22

6 Group for Safe Training Environments, 10:35:22

7 Recommendations to the USOC Board of Directors." 10:35:25

8 And this is something you -- you -- you 10:35:30

9 read before you were interviewed, right? 10:35:31

10 A. Correct. 10:35:34

11 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 2 was 10:35:34

12 identified.) 10:35:34

13 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. Okay. If we 10:35:36

14 go to Page 3. 10:35:39

15 And it says under the objective, "The 10:35:48

16 purpose of the Working Group for Safe Training 10:35:49

17 Environments is to deliver a set of recommendations 10:35:53

18 for promoting safe training environments in sport to 10:35:57

19 the USOC Board of Directors and CEO," right? 10:36:02

20 A. For further consideration, yes. 10:36:09

21 Q. Right. Okay. 10:36:10

22 And one of the key questions the Working 10:36:12

23 Group was tasked with answering was, Is sexual and 10:36:15

24 physical misconduct a prominent issue within sport, 10:36:18

25 right? 10:36:22

Page 79
1 A. Correct. 10:36:22

2 Q. And so that was kind of their mission is 10:36:28

3 to determine whether or not sexual and physical 10:36:30

4 misconduct was a prominent issue within sport, 10:36:33

5 right? 10:36:36

6 A. It was one of their key questions, yes. 10:36:37

7 Q. Okay. What are the other key questions 10:36:40

8 they -- they had to -- to answer, do you know? 10:36:42

9 MS. HOLM: Well, it's going to call for 10:36:44

10 speculation, it's going to call for -- give a 10:36:45

11 lack -- it's a lack of foundation at this point 10:36:46

12 because she was not on the committee -- 10:36:48

13 MR. ESTEY: Well, she read -- 10:36:49

14 MS. HOLM: -- but you can answer the 10:36:49

15 question. 10:36:49

16 MR. ESTEY: -- she read the report. 10:36:51

17 MS. HOLM: Okay. Based on the report, 10:36:52

18 which speaks for itself, you can go ahead and 10:36:54

19 answer. 10:36:56

20 MR. OKAMURA: I'll join those objections. 10:36:59

21 A. So, one of the key questions was the 10:37:01

22 threshold question around whether or not sexual and 10:37:02

23 physical misconduct was a prominent issue within 10:37:06

24 sport. 10:37:08

25 Beyond that, they were also tasked with 10:37:08

Page 80
1 questions around what rule, if any, the U.S. Olympic 10:37:10

2 Committee could and should play. 10:37:13

3 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And the 10:37:17

4 Working Group all agreed that sexual and physical 10:37:17

5 misconduct within sport was a critical issue not 10:37:23

6 only within sport but within society, right? 10:37:29

7 MS. HOLM: Well, it's argumentative of 10:37:32

8 what the document states. 10:37:34

9 But, if you can answer the question -- 10:37:36

10 A. Yes. I mean, I'm -- I'm happy to, 10:37:38

11 obviously, you know, re-read exactly what the report 10:37:39

12 says. 10:37:42

13 The report says, "The Working Group is in 10:37:42

14 unanimous agreement that this is a critical issue 10:37:44

15 within the society in which we live and, therefore, 10:37:47

16 within sport." 10:37:50

17 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And that 10:37:51

18 sexual and physical abuse can be complicated within 10:37:52

19 sport due to the unique relationships between 10:37:56

20 athletes and authority figures, right? 10:37:59

21 A. That is what the document says, yes. 10:38:01

22 Q. All right. And you knew that, though, 10:38:02

23 when you were hired in 2011, right? 10:38:03

24 A. Yes. 10:38:07

25 Q. Okay. And you also knew that athletes 10:38:07

Page 81
1 often develop very personal relationships with 10:38:09

2 coaches, correct? 10:38:13

3 A. When -- when what? When I was hired? 10:38:16

4 Q. Yes. 10:38:20

5 A. Yes. 10:38:20

6 Q. All right. And that these personal 10:38:21

7 relationships can create substantial barriers for 10:38:24

8 reporting of incidents due to fear of repercussions, 10:38:27

9 correct? 10:38:29

10 A. Correct. 10:38:32

11 Q. All right. And you knew at the time you 10:38:33

12 were hired that the physical environments within 10:38:36

13 many sports provide an opportunity for abuse to 10:38:39

14 occur due to higher levels of physical interaction 10:38:42

15 and an increased level of one-on-one contact between 10:38:47

16 athletes and authority figures, right? 10:38:51

17 A. Correct. 10:38:53

18 Q. And you know that, based upon your 10:38:54

19 knowledge of -- of Taekwondo, that there is a lot of 10:38:58

20 physical interaction between the coach and the 10:39:02

21 athlete, right? 10:39:04

22 A. I don't know that. 10:39:08

23 Q. Okay. Has anyone ever told you that? 10:39:10

24 MS. HOLM: Separate and apart from any 10:39:13

25 attorneys involved in this litigation. 10:39:14

Page 82
1 A. I don't believe so. 10:39:17

2 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Did you ever do any 10:39:17

3 research to find out if the sport of Taekwondo 10:39:18

4 involves higher levels of physical interaction? 10:39:21

5 A. Than who? Than what sport? 10:39:26

6 The reason I'm asking the question is that 10:39:27

7 there are, obviously, plenty of sports where there 10:39:30

8 are higher levels of physical -- physical 10:39:31

9 interaction, so it's a question relative to 10:39:34

10 something else. 10:39:37

11 Q. Well, you know Taekwondo is not a team 10:39:38

12 sport, right? 10:39:41

13 A. Correct. 10:39:42

14 Q. It's an individual sport, right? 10:39:42

15 A. Correct. 10:39:44

16 Q. So, when a coach is coaching an 10:39:44

17 individual, you would agree with me that in an 10:39:46

18 individual sport, there is higher levels of physical 10:39:47

19 interaction between the coach and the athlete, 10:39:51

20 correct? 10:39:52

21 A. I would not. 10:39:54

22 Q. Okay. Why not? 10:39:54

23 A. I think -- I think perhaps what we're not 10:39:55

24 distinguishing between is the fact that if it's a -- 10:39:58

25 not a team sport, there's a higher likelihood that 10:40:00

Page 83
1 there may be one-on-one interactions, but the fact 10:40:04

2 that it's an individual sport and not a team sport 10:40:06

3 doesn't lead to the conclusion that there are higher 10:40:08

4 levels of physical interaction as relative to some 10:40:11

5 others, perhaps. 10:40:13

6 Q. What are you basing that on? 10:40:15

7 A. I'm basing it on the fact that there are 10:40:17

8 obviously plenty of sports where we know there are 10:40:19

9 physical contact by virtue of needing to spot, or 10:40:20

10 to, you know, help manipulate a body. I mean, there 10:40:24

11 are other sports where there's, you know, physical 10:40:28

12 contact. 10:40:32

13 So, again, I view that as a question 10:40:32

14 relative to other sports. 10:40:34

15 Q. All right. Now, you would agree with me 10:40:37

16 that at the time you were hired by USOC, that 10:40:39

17 current events within religious organizations -- 10:40:42

18 MS. HOLM: Page 4. 10:40:49

19 Q. (By Mr. Estey) -- suggest that sexual and 10:40:49

20 physical abuse is an issue that needs to be 10:40:49

21 addressed across multiple fronts? 10:40:52

22 A. Yes. 10:40:58

23 Q. Okay. And you would agree that you knew, 10:41:01

24 as of 2011, that a small percentage of participants 10:41:03

25 use sports venues as a means for perpetrating abuse, 10:41:11

Page 84
1 correct? 10:41:15

2 A. I -- I -- I -- I guess I would disagree 10:41:20

3 with the statement that they've made here. I mean, 10:41:21

4 I think what we're talking about is that some 10:41:24

5 participants and individuals use sport as a way to 10:41:28

6 gain access to kids. Sports venues are -- I mean, I 10:41:32

7 don't know what "sports venues" mean -- 10:41:40

8 Q. All right. 10:41:42

9 A. -- as they're using it here. 10:41:42

10 Q. But you would agree with the -- the 10:41:43

11 statement that some predators would use sports to 10:41:44

12 gain access to victims, right? 10:41:47

13 A. Yes. 10:41:52

14 Q. And you knew that in 2011, right? 10:41:52

15 A. Yes. 10:41:55

16 Q. All right. Did you ever have any 10:41:56

17 discussions with anyone at -- at USOC as to whether 10:41:59

18 or not they were aware, prior to 2011, of the fact 10:42:02

19 that some sexual predators would use sports as a 10:42:05

20 means to gain access to victims? 10:42:09

21 A. As a general proposition? 10:42:14

22 Q. Yeah. 10:42:16

23 A. As a general proposition, I'm sure that at 10:42:16

24 some point we talked about sort of, you know, the 10:42:19

25 basics and what the research would tell us, yeah. 10:42:22

Page 85
1 Q. All right. So, this -- this is not -- 10:42:25

2 when you -- when you read this in 2011, or 20 -- 10:42:26

3 20 -- yeah, 2011, you would have read this in 2011, 10:42:29

4 this was not new to you, right? 10:42:32

5 A. No. 10:42:35

6 Q. All right. And you knew when you were 10:42:39

7 hired in 2011 that sexual predators, when they abuse 10:42:44

8 their victims, it can have a dramatic impact on 10:42:54

9 their life, right? 10:42:59

10 A. Yes. 10:43:00

11 Q. And you've talked to psychologists and 10:43:02

12 psychiatrists about the lifelong effects of -- of 10:43:04

13 being a victim of sexual abuse, right? 10:43:07

14 A. Yes. 10:43:11

15 Q. All right. And what have they told you? 10:43:12

16 A. I mean, we've obviously talked about sort 10:43:14

17 of signs and symptoms and long-term impacts in terms 10:43:16

18 of mental health and physical health. 10:43:21

19 Q. And the Working Group, at some point, 10:43:39

20 conveyed to USOC that the -- the predominant theme 10:43:48

21 that emerged after discussing this issue with NGBs, 10:43:52

22 coaches, victims, that increasing awareness of 10:43:58

23 sexual and physical abuse in sport was the most 10:44:05

24 meaningful and important action that can be taken in 10:44:08

25 promoting safe training environments, right? 10:44:12

Page 86
1 A. That is what the report says, yes. 10:44:15

2 Q. And was that what SafeSport was designed 10:44:20

3 to do then? 10:44:22

4 A. What SafeSport was designed to do is 10:44:24

5 subscribe to basically, over these -- over the 10:44:26

6 recommended actions that begin on Page 5. 10:44:32

7 Q. Okay. And then the Working Group also 10:44:35

8 said that training and education were identified as 10:44:36

9 key pillars to raising a broader awareness of sexual 10:44:39

10 and physical abuse across key stakeholder groups in 10:44:41

11 sport. Do you see that? 10:44:46

12 A. The report says that, yes. 10:44:48

13 Q. Yeah. 10:44:49

14 Prior to 2010, what type of training and 10:44:49

15 education were available to the NGBs from the USOC? 10:44:54

16 A. I'm not aware of resources being made 10:45:07

17 available to the NGBs before that. 10:45:10

18 Q. So, there was no requirement from the USOC 10:45:15

19 that the NGBs implement training and education to 10:45:19

20 raise a broader awareness of sexual and physical 10:45:23

21 abuse prior to 2010? 10:45:25

22 MR. OKAMURA: Objection. Lacks 10:45:30

23 foundation, misstates witness' testimony, lacks 10:45:30

24 personal knowledge. 10:45:32

25 MS. HOLM: Join in the objection. 10:45:35

Page 87
1 A. The first education requirement I am aware 10:45:40

2 of began in December 2013. 10:45:44

3 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And under the USC's -- 10:45:47

4 USOC's role in addressing this issue, it says, 10:45:55

5 "Addressing" -- "addressing the issue of safe 10:45:59

6 training environments in sport will require a call 10:46:02

7 to action for all members within the sports 10:46:06

8 community, including members of the Olympic movement 10:46:08

9 and other grassroots sports organizations." 10:46:12

10 Now, is it your understanding that members 10:46:15

11 of the Olympic movement would -- would include the 10:46:17

12 National Governing Bodies? 10:46:20

13 A. Yes. 10:46:26

14 Q. Okay. And then it says, "The USOC is 10:46:27

15 poised to play a unique role as a leader in 10:46:47

16 promoting safe training environments in sport given 10:46:50

17 its position as the needs" -- "the nation's elite 10:46:54

18 sport organization." 10:46:57

19 MS. HOLM: I think you said "it says." 10:46:59

20 What page are you on, and what paragraph? 10:47:01

21 MR. ESTEY: Page 4. I'm sorry. 10:47:03

22 THE WITNESS: Page 4, under the -- 10:47:03

23 MS. HOLM: Okay. I'm sorry. 10:47:05

24 THE WITNESS: -- it's the last paragraph. 10:47:07

25 MS. HOLM: I went over to Page 5 already. 10:47:07

Page 88
1 THE WITNESS: It's the last paragraph. 10:47:09

2 MS. HOLM: Okay. 10:47:09

3 MR. ESTEY: Yeah, because you want to go 10:47:09

4 home. 10:47:10

5 MS. HOLM: Nope. Nope. Just because 10:47:11

6 it's -- it's interesting reading. 10:47:12

7 Q. (By Mr. Estey) It goes on to say, "The 10:47:13

8 USOC, NGBs and clubs have the ability to leverage 10:47:15

9 their brands to drive adoption of innovative and 10:47:20

10 meaningful tools for addressing sexual and physical 10:47:24

11 misconduct in sport, enhance the collaborative 10:47:29

12 development of programs," slash, "services that 10:47:35

13 promote safe training environments, and promote 10:47:39

14 further awareness of the issue of sexual and 10:47:45

15 physical abuse within sport. 10:47:49

16 And -- and then it says that "The Working 10:47:56

17 Group viewed this topic to be within the purview of 10:47:57

18 the USOC, and recommended that the USOC play a 10:48:01

19 leadership role in promoting safe environments for 10:48:06

20 athletes in sports." Do you see that? 10:48:10

21 A. Yes. 10:48:13

22 Q. Okay. Prior to this recommendation, do 10:48:13

23 you have an understanding as to whether or not USOC 10:48:18

24 was playing a leadership role in promoting safe 10:48:23

25 environments for athletes in sports? 10:48:26

Page 89
1 MS. HOLM: Objection. Calls for 10:48:29

2 speculation, lack of foundation. 10:48:29

3 If you can answer, go ahead. 10:48:31

4 A. I don't. 10:48:33

5 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Did you ever talk to 10:48:34

6 anyone at USOC regarding whether or not USOC was 10:48:36

7 playing a leadership role in promoting safe 10:48:41

8 environments for athletes in sports prior to 10:48:44

9 September of 2010? 10:48:48

10 A. Not that I recall. 10:48:50

11 Q. And if you look at Page 5 under the bullet 10:48:53

12 points for the "Recommended Actions," and they -- 10:49:13

13 they provided a sample policy statement for 10:49:15

14 consideration, which is, "Sexual and physical abuse 10:49:19

15 is inconsistent with the Olympic ideals, and the 10:49:22

16 USOC will work with its partners to play a 10:49:26

17 leadership role promoting safe training environments 10:49:32

18 for athletes." Do you see that? 10:49:35

19 A. I do. 10:49:38

20 Q. Did -- prior to 2010, did USOC have a 10:49:40

21 policy statement in this regard in effect, to your 10:49:47

22 knowledge? 10:49:52

23 MS. HOLM: Okay. Objection. Calls for 10:49:53

24 speculation, lack of foundation. 10:49:55

25 But answer it if you can. 10:49:57

Page 90
1 A. Previous to this time, there was a 10:50:03

2 Coaching Ethics Code that wouldn't have said this 10:50:06

3 specifically, but that certainly addressed sexual 10:50:09

4 harassment and relationships and involving an 10:50:12

5 imbalance of power. 10:50:19

6 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Where would I find that? 10:50:20

7 A. I -- I -- I don't know where you'd find, I 10:50:26

8 mean, the Coaching Code of Ethics. I -- it's -- 10:50:27

9 it's been a part of the games' policies for a long 10:50:29

10 time. You know, we've -- we've got copies of that 10:50:32

11 somewhere. 10:50:37

12 Q. And under the second recommendation, the 10:50:40

13 Working Group wanted the USOC to develop an 10:50:43

14 effective sexual and physical abuse training program 10:50:46

15 for athletes, coaches and other regular participants 10:50:50

16 at the Olympic Training Centers, is that right? 10:50:53

17 A. Correct. 10:50:57

18 Q. Prior to September of 2010, do you know if 10:50:59

19 USOC had a sexual and physical abuse training 10:51:02

20 program for athletes, coaches and other participants 10:51:07

21 at the OTCs? 10:51:11

22 A. Not to my knowledge. 10:51:14

23 Q. Okay. Then, on Page 6, it looks like one 10:51:25

24 of the recommendations was that USOC provide a 10:51:28

25 centralized set of training and education materials 10:51:30

Page 91
1 focused on sexual and physical misconduct that can 10:51:34

2 be adopted by the NGBs, right? 10:51:38

3 A. Yes. 10:51:41

4 Q. And we've talked about that, right? 10:51:41

5 You've talked about how you've gotten online 10:51:42

6 resources for the NGBs, right? 10:51:45

7 A. Correct. 10:51:48

8 Q. Okay. So, it looks like the USOC then 10:51:48

9 adopted this recommendation, right? 10:51:52

10 A. It was implemented certainly, yes. 10:51:57

11 Q. And prior to 2010, was there any sort of 10:51:58

12 centralized set of training and education materials? 10:52:01

13 MS. HOLM: Calls -- calls for speculation. 10:52:02

14 Q. (By Mr. Estey) If you know. 10:52:03

15 A. Yeah. To the best of my knowledge, they 10:52:04

16 wouldn't have been available through the USOC. 10:52:05

17 There are, obviously, a lot of other resources that 10:52:07

18 are quite available to any sport organization. 10:52:11

19 Q. To your knowledge, was there anything 10:52:14

20 preventing the USOC from adopting or -- or 10:52:14

21 implementing recommendations that are laid out in 10:52:18

22 Exhibit 2 prior to September of 2010? 10:52:21

23 MS. HOLM: Objection. Calls for 10:52:27

24 speculation, lack of foundation. 10:52:27

25 Can you answer the question? 10:52:32

Page 92
1 A. Sorry. Could you repeat the question? 10:52:35

2 Sorry. I -- I -- I get confused, kind of, when the 10:52:36

3 objections come. Could you just repeat it, please. 10:52:38

4 Q. I do too. Don't -- don't feel bad. 10:52:43

5 MS. HOLM: I'm sorry. 10:52:43

6 THE WITNESS: It's -- it's' my small 10:53:10

7 brain. You're fine. 10:53:10

8 (Last question read back). 10:53:10

9 A. I'm not aware of anything that would have 10:53:11

10 prevented them from creating resources, no. 10:53:13

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. On Page 7, under 10:53:18

12 "Working Group Approach and Metho-" -- "Methodology, 10:53:30

13 third paragraph from the bottom, it says, "While the 10:53:30

14 Working Group addressed both sexual and physical 10:53:36

15 abuse within the scope of this report, the majority 10:53:38

16 of the feedback from athletes, NGBs and coaches was 10:53:42

17 directly related to sexual abuse." 10:53:47

18 Is that your understanding, that sexual 10:53:50

19 abuse, at least as of 2010, was more of an issue 10:53:54

20 than physical abuse? 10:53:59

21 A. I can only answer it to the extent that 10:54:00

22 this is -- that what the document says. I don't 10:54:03

23 have personal knowledge of that. 10:54:07

24 Q. Okay. And you read the -- the -- the 10:54:09

25 "Working Group Methodology" on Page 9, right? 10:54:32

Page 93
1 A. Correct. 10:54:37

2 Q. And you're comfortable with how they went 10:54:37

3 about their -- their -- their job? 10:54:40

4 MS. HOLM: Objection. Irrelevant and 10:54:41

5 immaterial -- 10:54:43

6 Q. (By Mr. Estey) You're -- you're -- 10:54:44

7 MS. HOLM: Vague and ambiguous. 10:54:44

8 Q. (By Mr. Estey) -- you're not critical of 10:54:46

9 how -- how the -- the Working Group completed its 10:54:48

10 task, are you? 10:54:50

11 A. No. 10:54:52

12 Q. Okay. Okay. Look at Page 12. 10:54:53

13 And in the second bullet point, it talks 10:55:13

14 about ensuring that the USOC Olympic Training 10:55:16

15 Centers are implementing the highest standards of 10:55:20

16 training programs and policies to address sexual and 10:55:23

17 physical misconduct. Do you see that? 10:55:27

18 A. I do. 10:55:29

19 Q. All right. Now, prior to September of 10:55:30

20 2010, do you know if the -- there were a -- a set of 10:55:33

21 training programs and policies to address sexual and 10:55:38

22 physical misconduct at the Olympic Training Centers? 10:55:42

23 A. Whether there were a set of policies to 10:55:54

24 address this is what you're asking? 10:55:55

25 Q. Yes, ma'am. 10:55:58

Page 94
1 A. I don't know whether there were a set of 10:56:00

2 policies. Again, I think there were -- you know, 10:56:03

3 there were statements through the Coaching Ethics 10:56:07

4 Code and other documents. 10:56:10

5 Q. Okay. Look at Page 14, please. 10:56:13

6 And this is a section on -- on, basically, 10:56:16

7 education of it looks coaches, NGBs, athletes, and 10:56:21

8 then it gets to parents, right? 10:56:26

9 A. Page 14 appears to address athlete 10:56:29

10 training and education and parents training and 10:56:31

11 education, yes. 10:56:33

12 Q. All right. And it talks about education 10:56:36

13 on parental responsibilities and oversight for their 10:56:37

14 children in sport, right? 10:56:41

15 A. Yes. 10:56:42

16 Q. Okay. Did the USOC come up with any sort 10:56:42

17 of policies or procedures or educational materials 10:56:45

18 regarding parental responsibilities and oversight 10:56:49

19 for their children in sport? 10:56:52

20 A. Yes. 10:56:54

21 Q. All right. And when did they do that? 10:56:54

22 A. Some of the written resources would have 10:56:59

23 been available beginning in 2012. Subsequently, an 10:57:01

24 online training directed specifically at parents was 10:57:10

25 developed maybe 2014. I don't quite remember when 10:57:17

Page 95
1 that was rolled out. 10:57:19

2 Q. Were you in charge of that? 10:57:20

3 A. Yeah. 10:57:22

4 Q. Okay. And prior to you developing these 10:57:22

5 training -- or the policies for the -- for the 10:57:28

6 parents, do you know if there was any sort of 10:57:29

7 educational materials put out by the USOC to the 10:57:34

8 parents in this regard? 10:57:38

9 A. I don't know. 10:57:39

10 Q. All right. And what -- what type of 10:57:40

11 policies or -- or education have you put together 10:57:41

12 for the parents? 10:57:43

13 A. So, on the website, we developed sort of 10:57:48

14 tips for parents; you know, things that they can ask 10:57:51

15 to make sure that their sport organizations have 10:57:55

16 policies and procedures in place, that they are 10:57:59

17 conducting criminal background checks, whatever 10:58:03

18 their policies might be related to SafeSport. 10:58:06

19 So, again, tips, frequently asked 10:58:09

20 questions. 10:58:11

21 The online training itself is sort of a 10:58:11

22 shortened version of the existing 90-minute 10:58:15

23 SafeSport training that walks through some of the 10:58:17

24 more critical points around emotional, physical and 10:58:22

25 sexual abuse. 10:58:25

Page 96
1 Q. All right. And the -- the -- the stuff 10:58:27

2 you've put online, it makes sure that -- that the 10:58:27

3 parents are aware of the rules and boundaries that 10:58:29

4 the athlete and the coach should follow, right? 10:58:32

5 A. They are resources available to parents 10:58:37

6 for them to -- to understand those boundaries and to 10:58:38

7 understand grooming and other behaviors like that. 10:58:41

8 Q. Okay. And does it talk about chaperones 10:58:44

9 at all on -- on overnight tournament trips? 10:58:46

10 A. The SafeSport handbook has sample policies 10:58:49

11 around local and overnight travel. 10:58:52

12 Q. All right. And what does it say regarding 10:58:56

13 local and overnight travel? 10:58:58

14 A. The training also goes into this, but, 10:59:00

15 obviously, with local and overnight travel, sort of 10:59:03

16 making sure that sport organizations have policies 10:59:06

17 vis-a-vis local travel, and making sure that, to the 10:59:11

18 extent possible, a coach isn't alone -- alone with a 10:59:19

19 child who is not his or her -- his or her child, 10:59:22

20 basically, you know, to the extent possible. 10:59:26

21 On the overnight travel piece, they talk 10:59:30

22 about, you know, chaperoning and bed checks and 10:59:33

23 things like that. 10:59:37

24 Q. And you know, based upon your education, 10:59:38

25 training and experience, that a sexual predator, in 10:59:40

Page 97
1 order for him to sexually abuse a -- a child, needs 10:59:45

2 to get that child alone, right? 10:59:49

3 MS. HOLM: Well, I'll interpose an 10:59:52

4 objection. It's calling a little bit for an 10:59:54

5 expertise question. 10:59:56

6 MR. OKAMURA: Join the objection. 10:59:58

7 MS. HOLM: In terms of just generalities 10:59:59

8 and your knowledge. 11:00:00

9 A. Yeah. Not necessarily. I mean, I think 11:00:01

10 we certainly are aware of incidents where the 11:00:03

11 individual has done such a good job of also grooming 11:00:06

12 parents, that they will, in fact, engage in sexual 11:00:10

13 contact or sexual acts with the parents in the front 11:00:14

14 seat, for example. 11:00:18

15 So, I mean, I can't say that it's 11:00:20

16 exclusive. I understand what you're saying as a 11:00:22

17 general matter. 11:00:26

18 Q. (By Mr. Estey) That -- that fact pattern 11:00:26

19 you just gave me, is that something that has 11:00:28

20 anything to do with any of the NGBs? 11:00:31

21 A. No. It's a fact pattern that probably 11:00:32

22 came out of Anna Salter's work. 11:00:34

23 Q. I know Salter. 11:00:39

24 All right. But, in general, you agree 11:00:41

25 with me that in order for a -- a pedophile or a 11:00:43

Page 98
1 sexual predator to sexually abuse an underage 11:00:45

2 female, he needs to get her alone, correct? 11:00:50

3 A. Access and privacy, yes. 11:00:52

4 Q. Okay. And that's what your policies and 11:00:55

5 procedures are designed to prevent, right? 11:00:56

6 A. In part, yes. Yep. 11:01:02

7 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 3 was 11:01:03

8 identified.) 11:01:03

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Let me show you marked 11:01:06

10 Exhibit 3. 11:01:06

11 MR. ESTEY: And, Peggy, I'm going faster 11:01:21

12 than I normally would for you, okay? So... 11:01:22

13 MS. HOLM: You're my hero. 11:01:25

14 MR. ESTEY: Yeah. 11:01:26

15 MS. HOLM: We didn't read every paragraph. 11:01:26

16 THE WITNESS: Listen, I'm more than happy 11:01:29

17 to talk faster than I already am, if that will 11:01:31

18 help -- 11:01:33

19 (Laughter). 11:01:33

20 MS. HOLM: You would be my heroine. 11:01:33

21 THE WITNESS: I'm kidding. 11:01:34

22 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. This is from 11:01:37

23 February 9th, 2015, and it says, "U.S. Olympic 11:01:40

24 Committee Announces Formation of U.S. Center for 11:01:44

25 SafeSport Advisory Council." 11:01:44

Page 99
1 This is the physical center we talked 11:01:49

2 about earlier, right? 11:01:50

3 I -- this is -- this is an article, I 11:01:55

4 guess. 11:01:57

5 A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yep. 11:01:57

6 Q. Okay. And the third paragraph of this -- 11:01:59

7 this article, it says, "There is national agency 11:02:02

8 today that is responsible for the safety and 11:02:06

9 wellbeing of young athletes, and we're in a position 11:02:08

10 to lead this important effort, said USOC CEO Scott 11:02:12

11 Blackmun." 11:02:17

12 Have you ever had discussions with -- with 11:02:18

13 Blackmun regarding that USOC was in a position to -- 11:02:20

14 to lead the effort to keep the athletes safe? 11:02:27

15 A. Well, I mean, that would have come from 11:02:34

16 two places. I mean, obviously, there's a statement 11:02:36

17 around the USOC's ability to play a leadership role 11:02:39

18 in the 2010 Working Group recommendations, and, you 11:02:41

19 know, subsequently, what we're talking about is this 11:02:46

20 independent agency. And that would have come, at a 11:02:49

21 minimum, through the 2013 Working Group for Case 11:02:55

22 Management Recommendations. 11:02:57

23 Q. But have you had conversations with 11:03:01

24 Black -- with Mr. Blackmun in that regard? 11:03:02

25 A. I'm confident that at some point, as we 11:03:05

Page 100
1 were discussing the Working Group's -- the 2013 11:03:08

2 Working Group's progress, that we would have had 11:03:11

3 conversations about the USOC's ability to create 11:03:15

4 this new center. 11:03:19

5 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 4 was 11:03:20

6 identified.) 11:03:20

7 Q. I'm showing you what's marked as 11:03:27

8 Exhibit 4? 11:03:30

9 MS. HOLM: And, I'm sorry. For Exhibit 3, 11:03:37

10 did we identify the date on the record? 11:03:38

11 MR. ESTEY: I thought we did, but -- 11:03:41

12 MS. HOLM: Okay. I just wanted to make 11:03:43

13 sure. 11:03:45

14 MR. ESTEY: No worries. 11:03:45

15 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Exhibit 4. 11:03:45

16 Is that you? 11:03:46

17 A. Unfortunately, yes. 11:03:47

18 MS. HOLM: I have this one too. 11:03:51

19 MR. LITTLE: Did you go to UVA too? 11:03:55

20 MS. HOLM: No, but I do the same thing you 11:03:58

21 guys do. 11:04:00

22 MR. LITTLE: Oh. 11:04:00

23 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. So, it says -- 11:04:00

24 this is a -- I guess a little bio from the 11:04:01

25 University of Virginia School of Law, right? 11:04:05

Page 101
1 A. Correct. 11:04:09

2 Q. It says that you developed centralized and 11:04:11

3 standardized resources for our National Governing 11:04:13

4 Bodies. We've talked about that, right? 11:04:15

5 A. I don't know where you are, but -- 11:04:18

6 Q. I'm sorry. It says -- 11:04:19

7 A. -- as a general matter. 11:04:19

8 Q. It says, "Can you describe your role as 11:04:20

9 Director of Ethics?" And it says -- 11:04:22

10 A. Oh, okay. Yep. 11:04:23

11 Q. But that's what -- we talked about that. 11:04:25

12 A. Yep. Yep. Sorry. I was just making sure 11:04:31

13 I was on the same page. Yep. 11:04:34

14 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 5 was 11:04:36

15 identified.) 11:04:36

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And I'm going 11:04:37

17 to show you an article that's a Professional 11:04:48

18 Skaters' Association, it looks like, that you 11:04:49

19 apparently helped put together. It's Exhibit 5. 11:04:53

20 Have you seen this document before? 11:04:57

21 A. I don't recall it sitting here right now. 11:05:15

22 Q. Do you recall providing content for 11:05:19

23 this -- it looks like a -- I don't know if it's an 11:05:22

24 article or a guideline? Do you recall having input 11:05:28

25 on this? 11:05:33

Page 102
1 A. I don't. You know, I recall having 11:05:35

2 conversations with the people who are listed at the 11:05:38

3 top of it. I don't -- I don't recall the process, 11:05:42

4 though. 11:05:44

5 Q. You would agree, though, that -- that in 11:05:46

6 the event that a coach, employee, official, 11:05:52

7 director, parent or volunteer, if they observe 11:05:57

8 inappropriate havoir- (sic) -- inappropriate 11:06:01

9 behaviors, suspected physical or sexual abuse, it's 11:06:01

10 a personal responsibility of each member to 11:06:07

11 immediately report these observations, correct? 11:06:09

12 A. Correct. 11:06:17

13 Q. And it looks like that U.S. Figure Skating 11:06:18

14 had a plan for advising the proper supervision of 11:06:21

15 members and participants during all program 11:06:23

16 activities and to minimize one-on-one interactions 11:06:26

17 between a coach, right? 11:06:30

18 A. That is what the document states, yes. 11:06:31

19 Q. All right. And you would agree, that's a 11:06:33

20 good policy to have, right? 11:06:36

21 A. Yes. 11:06:38

22 Q. All right. And that would have been a 11:06:39

23 good policy to have from the years 2007 to -- to 11:06:41

24 today, right? 11:06:45

25 A. Yeah. 11:06:49

Page 103
1 Q. Okay. If you look at the second -- second 11:06:50

2 page, it talks about "Boundary-Violating Behaviors." 11:06:52

3 Do you see that? 11:06:57

4 A. Yes. 11:06:58

5 Q. Did you provide any information on 11:06:59

6 boundary-violating behaviors, if you recall? 11:07:01

7 A. I don't recall it in this specific 11:07:10

8 context. I mean, certainly part of what we have 11:07:12

9 done through SafeSport is talked about boundary 11:07:14

10 violations. 11:07:16

11 Q. All right. And these are examples of -- 11:07:17

12 of actions that aren't necessarily criminal, but 11:07:19

13 basically are -- are -- amount to grooming, right? 11:07:22

14 If -- petting a child on the rear-end, hugging and 11:07:23

15 kissing, holding hands? 11:07:28

16 MS. HOLM: Well, I have to interpose an 11:07:33

17 objection to the question. 11:07:33

18 You're asking for an expert opinion, and 11:07:35

19 the way you phrased it, you're just saying that 11:07:39

20 patting the butt is grooming? 11:07:40

21 MR. ESTEY: Well, I'll -- I'll just 11:07:43

22 rephrase it. 11:07:43

23 Q. (By Mr. Estey) You would agree that in 11:07:44

24 your -- based upon your training, education and 11:07:45

25 experience, that, you know, that an adult coach 11:07:47

Page 104
1 patting a -- a child on the butt or hugging and 11:07:50

2 kissing the child or holding hands, that could be 11:07:51

3 evidence of grooming, right? 11:07:56

4 MS. HOLM: Well, it's still calling for an 11:07:58

5 expert opinion. 11:08:00

6 You can answer it to the extent you can 11:08:02

7 with regard to your position and what you know. 11:08:04

8 MR. OKAMURA: I join in that objection. 11:08:06

9 A. It could. I think these are better 11:08:09

10 described as boundary violations, but it could. 11:08:11

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. What's a butt pad? 11:08:15

12 A. I don't know, but I'm assuming that it -- 11:08:19

13 it's figure skating, so I'm assuming it has 11:08:20

14 something to do with the fact that they have the 11:08:21

15 unfortunate experience of falling on the ice a lot. 11:08:26

16 Q. Turek's probably wearing one right now. 11:08:26

17 A. Things I don't need to know. 11:08:30

18 MS. HOLM: TMI. 11:08:33

19 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. "Behaviors to 11:08:35

20 Avoid." You would agree that behaviors to avoid 11:08:36

21 would be spending -- spending time alone with a 11:08:39

22 minor, becoming the minor's friend as opposed to an 11:08:41

23 authority figure, hanging out, instant messaging, 11:08:44

24 texting, sharing photos, and touching the minor in 11:08:47

25 any way not directly related to achieving a skill. 11:08:52

Page 105
1 These are all behaviors that a coach should avoid, 11:08:55

2 correct? 11:08:59

3 MS. HOLM: Again, it's calling for an 11:09:00

4 expert opinion, but you can answer the question in 11:09:01

5 terms of your role. 11:09:04

6 A. Yeah. I mean, I think -- I think the best 11:09:04

7 way to summarize it is particularly spending time 11:09:07

8 alone with the minor. I think what we're talking 11:09:10

9 about is spending time with them, like as in 11:09:12

10 out-of-program contact, yes. 11:09:15

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) But you would agree, 11:09:18

12 though, this policy of -- of a coach not spending 11:09:18

13 time alone with a minor, becoming a minor's friend, 11:09:19

14 social media, and touching the minor in any way not 11:09:23

15 directly related to achieving a skill, those are 11:09:26

16 good policies to have in order to prevent sexual 11:09:29

17 abuse, correct? 11:09:33

18 A. I think what this document is talking 11:09:34

19 about are behaviors to avoid. I think that you 11:09:37

20 can -- you can recommend policies that will help 11:09:41

21 people avoid these behaviors, yes. 11:09:47

22 MR. ESTEY: Can I have my question read 11:09:50

23 back, please? 11:09:51

24 (Last question read back). 11:09:52

25 A. Are you re-asking me that question? 11:10:26

Page 106
1 MS. HOLM: She answered the question. 11:10:27

2 MR. ESTEY: Yes. 11:10:27

3 MS. HOLM: Did you have another question? 11:10:27

4 MR. ESTEY: No, ma'am. You didn't answer 11:10:29

5 the question. That's why I'm -- I had her re- -- 11:10:29

6 redo it. 11:10:34

7 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Do you understand the 11:10:36

8 question? 11:10:36

9 A. I understand the question, yes. 11:10:37

10 Q. All right. Could you answer it, please. 11:10:37

11 A. Yeah. So, what I was trying to say was 11:10:38

12 if -- if we're continuing to look at this document, 11:10:40

13 I think what they're talking about, again, are 11:10:41

14 behaviors to avoid. 11:10:44

15 If we're not talking about this document, 11:10:45

16 then yes, I would agree that you could create 11:10:45

17 policies around some of these as a method of 11:10:47

18 mitigating high risk situations. 11:10:51

19 Q. All right. Separate and apart from this 11:10:53

20 document, you would agree that a coach should not be 11:10:55

21 spending time alone with the athlete, should not be 11:10:59

22 becoming the minor's friend, should not be hanging 11:11:01

23 out, instant messaging, texting, and shouldn't be 11:11:04

24 touching a minor in a way not directly related to 11:11:08

25 achieving a skill, right? 11:11:11

Page 107
1 A. As a general statement, yes. 11:11:13

2 Q. Okay. And preventing these behaviors, in 11:11:16

3 other words, a coach spending time alone with a 11:11:20

4 minor, becoming a minor's friend, if you prevent 11:11:22

5 these behaviors, you -- you have a better shot at 11:11:25

6 preventing sexual abuse, correct? 11:11:28

7 MR. OKAMURA: Objection. Calls for 11:11:31

8 speculation, calls for expert testimony. 11:11:31

9 MS. HOLM: Join in the objection. 11:11:34

10 If you can answer the question generally, 11:11:35

11 based upon your experience and your job 11:11:37

12 responsibilities. 11:11:39

13 A. Yes, these are risk mitigating approaches. 11:11:40

14 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. And these risk 11:11:44

15 mitigating approaches were available to both the 11:11:46

16 NGBs and the USOC prior to 2010, correct? 11:11:49

17 MS. HOLM: Argumentative as phrased. 11:11:55

18 Calls for speculation and foundation. 11:11:56

19 A. Yeah. So, I mean, the information 11:11:58

20 that's -- that's stated here, and the information 11:12:00

21 that we've talked about in terms of mitigating high 11:12:02

22 risk situations, have, quite frankly, long been 11:12:04

23 available in a lot of places. It's -- it's not 11:12:08

24 specific to -- to us. 11:12:11

25 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. It's not 11:12:13

Page 108
1 specific to 2010. It was available in 2000, 2005, 11:12:14

2 2007, correct? 11:12:20

3 A. This information would have been available 11:12:21

4 at the time, yeah. 11:12:23

5 Q. All right. During those time periods; 11:12:23

6 2000, 2005, 2007? 11:12:24

7 A. I think these are strategies that have 11:12:27

8 been consistent over time, yes. 11:12:29

9 Q. Okay. Now, you would agree that it's a 11:12:31

10 good policy to have that regardless of gender, a 11:12:35

11 coach shall not share a hotel room or other sleeping 11:12:40

12 arrangement with an athlete? 11:12:43

13 MS. HOLM: Unless the coach is a parent, 11:12:46

14 guardian, sibling of that particular athlete. 11:12:48

15 MR. ESTEY: Yeah, but that wasn't my 11:12:52

16 question. 11:12:53

17 MS. HOLM: I know, but it's -- well, then 11:12:54

18 I'll object to your question. It's an incomplete 11:12:55

19 hypothetical. 11:12:58

20 A. As a general rule, yes. 11:13:01

21 Q. (By Mr. Estey) You would agree that 11:13:04

22 coaches should avoid transporting athletes in their 11:13:05

23 personal vehicles? 11:13:08

24 A. As a general practice, yes. 11:13:11

25 Q. And you would agree with me that athletes 11:13:13

Page 109
1 are most vulner- -- vulnerable to misconduct during 11:13:14

2 travel, right? 11:13:20

3 A. That has been identified as one of the 11:13:20

4 highest -- highest risk situations, yes. 11:13:23

5 Q. And so you would agree that any travel 11:13:28

6 guidelines that an NGB were to implement would 11:13:32

7 include how minors would be supervised during travel 11:13:38

8 to and from the competitions, right? 11:13:42

9 A. Yes. I mean, I think as a general 11:13:46

10 practice, providing that guidance is helpful. 11:13:48

11 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 11:13:50

12 MS. HOLM: You're welcome. 11:13:50

13 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And you would agree with 11:13:56

14 me that coaches should avoid using social media to 11:14:02

15 communicate with athletes? 11:14:12

16 A. As a -- as a general rule, particularly 11:14:16

17 with minor participants, yes. 11:14:20

18 Q. And you would agree that where -- where 11:14:25

19 possible, the coach and athlete should meet in a 11:14:30

20 publicly -- publicly visible and open area, correct? 11:14:37

21 A. Where possible, yes. 11:14:41

22 Q. Do you discuss the -- the use of 11:15:03

23 chaperones anywhere in -- in the training materials 11:15:04

24 that the USOC provides to its member participants? 11:15:07

25 A. I honestly don't remember. If it is, it's 11:15:14

Page 110
1 going to be somewhere in the SafeSport handbook 11:15:16

2 somewhere in one of the other materials. 11:15:22

3 Q. Do you think the use of chaperones is a -- 11:15:24

4 a mitigating procedure to prevent sexual misconduct? 11:15:26

5 A. It can be. 11:15:33

6 Q. Okay. 11:15:34

7 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 6 was 11:15:34

8 identified.) 11:15:34

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) I'm going to show you 11:15:36

10 marked Exhibit 6. And this is -- what is this? 11:15:38

11 A. It appears to be a presentation for USA 11:16:03

12 Gymnastics in 2013. 11:16:12

13 Q. Is this something you did? 11:16:15

14 A. Yes. 11:16:17

15 Q. All right. On the first page, it says, 11:16:18

16 Stats. Where did you get these stats at? 11:16:20

17 A. It would have been a combination of CDC 11:16:24

18 and, you know, potentially other resources, like 11:16:29

19 From Darkness to Light. 11:16:36

20 Q. CDC is Center for Disease Control? 11:16:39

21 A. Correct. 11:16:43

22 Q. Yeah. And one of four means one of four 11:16:44

23 girls will be sexually abused by the time they turn 11:16:49

24 18, right? 11:16:53

25 A. Correct. 11:16:53

Page 111
1 Q. One in six is boys -- 11:16:54

2 A. Correct. 11:16:57

3 Q. -- right? 11:16:57

4 A. Yep. 11:16:57

5 Q. More than 90 percent know their 11:16:58

6 perpetrator, right? 11:17:03

7 A. Correct. 11:17:07

8 Q. And that means more than 90 percent of the 11:17:07

9 victims know their perpetrator before the abuse 11:17:10

10 occurs, right? 11:17:14

11 A. Correct. 11:17:16

12 Q. And over 90 percent of adults will never 11:17:18

13 be reported. What does that mean? 11:17:22

14 A. Yeah. I mean, essentially, what that 11:17:24

15 means is that we know the disclosure rates of sexual 11:17:26

16 abuse are quite low, and they always have been quite 11:17:30

17 low. 11:17:35

18 And what we were really talking about here 11:17:35

19 was that criminal background checks, while 11:17:37

20 necessary, aren't necessarily sufficient because we 11:17:40

21 know most of them don't go through the criminal 11:17:44

22 system. 11:17:49

23 Q. That's why it's important to have policies 11:17:49

24 and procedures in place, on top of criminal 11:17:51

25 background checks, in order to prevent sexual abuse, 11:17:54

Page 112
1 correct? 11:17:57

2 A. Correct. 11:17:59

3 Q. All right. And you want to minimize 11:17:59

4 opportunities for sexual misconduct, right? 11:18:01

5 A. I do, yes. 11:18:05

6 Q. All right. And so does the USOC, correct? 11:18:06

7 A. Yes. 11:18:09

8 Q. All right. And one of the ways you do 11:18:09

9 that is to explicitly define what conduct is 11:18:12

10 prohibited, right? 11:18:17

11 A. That is one approach, yes. 11:18:17

12 Q. Okay. And you do that through SafeSport, 11:18:18

13 right? 11:18:21

14 A. Correct. 11:18:23

15 Q. Okay. 11:18:24

16 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 7 was 11:18:24

17 identified.) 11:18:24

18 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. Let me show 11:18:24

19 you marked Exhibit... 11:18:36

20 This is a one-page article from October 11:18:39

21 21st, 2014. And tell me if you've ever seen this 11:18:58

22 article. 11:19:02

23 A. I think so. 11:19:10

24 Q. All right. And you would agree with me, 11:19:15

25 it looks like Mr. Blackmun was interviewed for this 11:19:17

Page 113
1 article, right? 11:19:22

2 A. What it looks like to me is potentially 11:19:26

3 this was a luncheon at which he spoke -- 11:19:28

4 Q. Yeah. 11:19:31

5 A. -- and these are perhaps quotes from that. 11:19:31

6 I can't -- 11:19:33

7 Q. I think you're right. 11:19:33

8 All right. And apparently he told the 11:19:34

9 National Press club that the USOC's most important 11:19:35

10 role now is to combat sexual abuse among athletes 11:19:39

11 and create a safe and healthy setting for sports. 11:19:44

12 A. Sorry. Where are you? 11:19:48

13 Q. That's in the first paragraph. 11:19:48

14 A. Oh, okay. 11:19:50

15 Q. All right. Look like he -- 11:19:51

16 A. That's what it says, yes. 11:19:51

17 Q. All right. And do you agree with that 11:19:52

18 statement, that the USOC's most important role is to 11:19:54

19 combat sexual abuse among athletes and create a safe 11:19:58

20 and healthy setting for sports? 11:20:03

21 MS. HOLM: Well, you know it actually says 11:20:06

22 that one of the USOC's most important roles now. 11:20:06

23 MR. ESTEY: Okay. Yeah, it does. 11:20:10

24 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Do you agree with that? 11:20:12

25 A. That it is one of the most -- one of the 11:20:14

Page 114
1 USOC's most important rules? 11:20:16

2 Q. Yeah. 11:20:18

3 A. Yes, I think it is one of the most 11:20:19

4 important rules -- 11:20:20

5 Q. Do you know when it became -- when it 11:20:21

6 became one of USOC's most important rules? 11:20:21

7 MS. HOLM: Object to the form of the 11:20:26

8 question. May call for speculation, lack of 11:20:27

9 foundation, but if you know. 11:20:30

10 A. I don't. 11:20:36

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. 11:20:37

12 A. I mean, I don't know -- I don't know what 11:20:37

13 that -- what that point was for the USOC. 11:20:38

14 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And then at 11:20:41

15 some point in the, let's see, one, two, three -- the 11:20:41

16 sixth paragraph down, he quotes, "And yes, it 11:20:44

17 happens in sports, if not more, than society at 11:20:47

18 large." It looks like he's referring to sexual 11:20:52

19 abuse. 11:20:57

20 Do you agree with that statement? 11:20:57

21 A. No. 11:21:00

22 Q. Why not? 11:21:02

23 A. I -- I don't think that statistically -- 11:21:03

24 statistically speaking, the majority of perpetrators 11:21:04

25 continue to be family members, and I think that 11:21:11

Page 115
1 that's where we continue to see the highest 11:21:15

2 percentage of this happening. 11:21:18

3 So, I don't -- I don't -- I don't agree 11:21:19

4 that that is correct. 11:21:22

5 Q. I agree with you. 11:21:23

6 And you -- well, don't worry about it. I 11:21:25

7 don't know why I have two of these. 11:21:30

8 All right. Now we're going to get into 11:21:40

9 some emails, looks like. 11:21:41

10 And some of these may be chronologically 11:21:48

11 out of order. 11:22:00

12 A. Oh -- oh, delightful. 11:22:01

13 Q. We'll do our best. I'm only one man over 11:22:02

14 here. 11:22:05

15 A. Thank you. 11:22:07

16 MS. HOLM: Well, I see three of you guys. 11:22:09

17 MR. ESTEY: Yeah. They're doing a lot, 11:22:11

18 huh? 11:22:11

19 MS. HOLM: I could be miscounting. 11:22:11

20 A. Wait a minute. He needs you. 11:22:15

21 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 8 was 11:22:16

22 identified.) 11:22:16

23 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. It looks like 11:22:16

24 this is an email chain from March 12th and 13th, 11:22:22

25 2014. It looks like John Ruger said something -- or 11:22:25

Page 116
1 Ruger to you, and it's talking about how Gitelman 11:22:30

2 apparently coached after he was supposedly 11:22:37

3 suspended. Do you recall receiving these emails? 11:22:42

4 A. Not at the time. I mean, I -- obviously, 11:22:46

5 I don't dispute that I received it. 11:22:49

6 Q. You don't recall receiving it at the time? 11:22:51

7 A. I'm sure that at the time I do recall 11:22:53

8 receiving it because I received it, but sitting here 11:22:55

9 today, I don't necessarily remember. 11:22:57

10 Q. All right. It looks like Ruger says to 11:22:59

11 you, "If half of this is true, I am appalled. What 11:23:01

12 is Bruce doing or not doing?" 11:23:04

13 All right. When you say, half of what is 11:23:06

14 true? I mean -- 11:23:10

15 MS. HOLM: Well, that's calling -- 11:23:12

16 MR. OKAMURA: Objection. 11:23:12

17 MS. HOLM: -- for speculation. She's not 11:23:12

18 the author of that statement. 11:23:14

19 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Well, you received this, 11:23:17

20 right? So, like, when he -- when he -- when he -- 11:23:18

21 when he writes, "If half of this is true," did you 11:23:19

22 understand as to what he was talking about? 11:23:24

23 MS. HOLM: Well, it's a lack of 11:23:26

24 foundation. I don't think she has any recollection 11:23:27

25 about it. She's already told you she doesn't 11:23:27

Page 117
1 remember this. 11:23:29

2 But if you have a memory of what your 11:23:30

3 state of mind was as you read this, you can 11:23:32

4 certainly answer Mr. Estey's question. 11:23:37

5 A. Yeah. I mean, I -- I -- I believe 11:23:39

6 Mr. Ruger, though I obviously can't speak on behalf 11:23:41

7 of him, was essentially saying, you know, Listen, I 11:23:45

8 mean, even if, you know 50 percent of this is true 11:23:49

9 and 50 percent of it isn't, then that was 11:23:51

10 disconcerting and appalling to him. 11:23:54

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) But you don't remember 11:23:57

12 reading this? 11:23:58

13 A. No. I -- listen, I don't dispute that I 11:23:59

14 read it when it came in. I just, you know -- 11:24:03

15 Q. Let me ask you -- 11:24:05

16 A. -- sitting here several years later, I -- 11:24:05

17 I don't question that I received it and that I read 11:24:08

18 it. 11:24:11

19 Q. Let me ask you this -- 11:24:11

20 A. Yeah. 11:24:13

21 Q. -- how -- how many instances were you made 11:24:13

22 aware of where a coach had been accused of sexually 11:24:14

23 abusing an athlete and then was supposedly suspended 11:24:17

24 but then continued to coach? How many instances of 11:24:22

25 that did you come across from 2011 to today? 11:24:25

Page 118
1 A. I don't recall. What you're asking me is 11:24:28

2 whether or not I remember receiving the email and 11:24:28

3 reading it, and not whether or not I remembered that 11:24:31

4 this occurred. So, two different questions. 11:24:33

5 Q. Okay. So, generically, you were aware of 11:24:35

6 the Gitelman situation? 11:24:39

7 A. Correct. 11:24:41

8 Q. Okay. And when you -- when Ruger says to 11:24:43

9 you, "If half of it is true, I'm appalled, what is 11:24:44

10 Bruce doing or not doing," did you -- did you 11:24:51

11 respond in any way to this -- this email? 11:24:54

12 A. I may have. I -- I'm sure I would have 11:24:57

13 followed up with John Ruger. 11:25:00

14 Q. All right. And when it says, "What is 11:25:02

15 Bruce doing or not doing," that's Bruce Harris, 11:25:03

16 right? 11:25:05

17 A. I believe so, yes. 11:25:08

18 Q. All right. And if you would have followed 11:25:09

19 up, what -- what -- what -- what would the follow-up 11:25:10

20 consist of? 11:25:12

21 A. It would have been a combination of 11:25:15

22 reaching out to Taekwondo, reaching out to 11:25:16

23 Taekwondo's counsel, trying to understand what was 11:25:17

24 going on, where they were process-wise. 11:25:22

25 Q. Did you ever find out? 11:25:25

Page 119
1 A. Yes. It was my understanding, after some 11:25:28

2 subsequent conversations, that -- that they had had 11:25:31

3 a hearing in January, which we understood occurred, 11:25:34

4 and that ultimately, for whatever reason, that 11:25:38

5 hearing was set aside and that they had rescheduled 11:25:41

6 it for early April. 11:25:41

7 Q. What -- what was your understanding as to 11:25:46

8 why the hearing was set aside? 11:25:48

9 A. My understanding was that they received 11:25:50

10 counsel that the failure to allow cross examination 11:25:53

11 wouldn't, quote unquote, "hold up." 11:25:53

12 Q. And did you agree with that analysis? 11:26:02

13 MS. HOLM: Well, calls for a legal 11:26:04

14 opinion. 11:26:04

15 MR. ESTEY: She's an attorney. Come on, 11:26:04

16 man. 11:26:04

17 MS. HOLM: Well, I know. I know. But 11:26:04

18 she's not practicing as a lawyer in her role. 11:26:05

19 You can answer if you have a thought 11:26:10

20 process in that regard. 11:26:11

21 A. I do not agree. 11:26:14

22 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. And tell me why. 11:26:16

23 A. From my perspective, it is always 11:26:20

24 appropriate to make sure that questions are being 11:26:22

25 asked, right? So, whether it's coming from the 11:26:27

Page 120
1 hearing panel, whether it's coming from the 11:26:28

2 arbitrators, whoever it is, I think it is entirely 11:26:28

3 appropriate to make sure that the correct questions 11:26:28

4 are being asked to get the level of confidence that 11:26:35

5 they need to how to make a decision. 11:26:35

6 I do not agree that those questions need 11:26:41

7 to come via cross examination from an individual's 11:26:43

8 attorney. 11:26:47

9 Q. Okay. And when you heard that they had 11:26:48

10 set aside the recommendation of the hearing panel in 11:26:49

11 Gitelman's case, did you do anything to reinstate 11:26:54

12 that hearing panel's original decision to suspend 11:26:59

13 Gitelman? 11:27:06

14 A. I have no authority to do that. And, as I 11:27:08

15 understood it, he was still suspended. 11:27:11

16 Q. But still coaching. 11:27:15

17 A. I -- I don't know whether he -- I mean, 11:27:16

18 the -- the coaching piece is, I think, more likely 11:27:17

19 controlled by the local club because, again, there's 11:27:19

20 a difference between employment and membership. 11:27:24

21 Q. Did you -- the fact you disagreed with the 11:27:25

22 fact that the hearing panel's decision was -- was 11:27:29

23 set aside, did you convey that to anyone? 11:27:32

24 A. I'm sure that I did. I mean, listen, this 11:27:38

25 is -- the -- the issue of cross examination has long 11:27:40

Page 121
1 been a subject of debate, not just within the USOC, 11:27:41

2 but any number of other settings, including Title 9 11:27:46

3 and due process. So, there's just a lot of 11:27:52

4 disagreement on this point. 11:27:55

5 Q. Sure. 11:27:57

6 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 9 was 11:27:58

7 identified.) 11:27:58

8 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. I'm going to 11:27:58

9 show you the next email marked Exhibit 9. It is -- 11:27:59

10 it looks like it's from Mr. Johansen, a few other 11:28:04

11 people on there, from March 13th, 2014. 11:28:14

12 A. Can I have a labeled one? 11:28:21

13 Q. Sorry. 11:28:23

14 A. No worries. 11:28:23

15 Q. And this is, I guess, your response from 11:28:23

16 March 13th, 2014, at 12:53, to Ruger, when he says, 11:28:33

17 "If" -- "if half of this is a true -- I can't 11:28:39

18 speak -- "I'm appalled. What is Bruce doing or not 11:28:40

19 doing?" 11:28:45

20 And you respond, "This goes back to the 11:28:45

21 ability to impose temporary suspensions pending 11:28:49

22 final resolution." 11:28:53

23 Do you recall writing that email? 11:28:54

24 A. No, but I don't question that I did. 11:28:56

25 Q. What does that mean, "when it goes back to 11:29:00

Page 122
1 the ability to impose temporary suspensions"? 11:29:03

2 A. I think there's been a fair amount of 11:29:08

3 confusion and/or disagreement about whether or not 11:29:11

4 temporary suspensions or interim measures can be 11:29:12

5 imposed prior to a full merit -- a -- a full hearing 11:29:17

6 on the merits, you know, without also offering a 11:29:17

7 hearing on that temporary suspension. 11:29:23

8 So, I think that that's -- I was sort of 11:29:23

9 indicating that I felt that that was part of what 11:29:27

10 may be going on here. 11:29:30

11 Q. All right. And then it looks like either 11:29:31

12 Ruger or -- I guess Ruger or someone responded -- 11:29:33

13 yeah, Ruger responded -- or, actually, Johansen 11:29:37

14 responded on March 13, 2014, at 11:03. It says, "My 11:29:42

15 understanding is that USAT issued a temporary 11:29:44

16 suspension but never enforced it." 11:29:51

17 Was that your understanding also? 11:29:54

18 A. It was not. I -- I wasn't aware of that. 11:29:56

19 Q. All right. 11:29:59

20 A. Or at least I don't remember being aware 11:29:59

21 of it. 11:30:01

22 Q. All right. And it says -- he says, "Also, 11:30:03

23 there is no reason why an allegation of this sort 11:30:03

24 should take six months to prosecute without some 11:30:06

25 sort of temporary suspension being issued and 11:30:10

Page 123
1 enforced." 11:30:10

2 Do you recall having any sort of 11:30:13

3 discussions with Mr. Johansen in that regard? 11:30:14

4 MS. HOLM: Well, I know -- those 11:30:18

5 discussions with Mr. Johansen -- 11:30:18

6 MR. ESTEY: Come on, Peggy. Pick up the 11:30:22

7 pace. 11:30:22

8 MS. HOLM: Well, I know. 11:30:22

9 MR. ESTEY: I'll withdraw -- 11:30:22

10 MS. HOLM: I've got people from both 11:30:22

11 sides. 11:30:22

12 MR. ESTEY: I'll withdraw the question. 11:30:22

13 MS. HOLM: Thank you. 11:30:23

14 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. To -- 11:30:27

15 independent from talking to any attorneys, did you 11:30:27

16 ever have a concern that it was taking six months to 11:30:33

17 prosecute Gitelman, and that there was not some sort 11:30:36

18 of temporary suspension being enforced? 11:30:41

19 MS. HOLM: Did you have a subjective 11:30:48

20 mindset or a thought about that? 11:30:49

21 A. Six months is a timetable I have, you 11:30:56

22 know, seen in any number of other organizations. I 11:30:58

23 think -- I think we can and should be more 11:31:01

24 expeditious. You know, and to the extent that we're 11:31:05

25 learning that -- through Ronda, which, whether or 11:31:09

Page 124
1 not that was true or not, but, you know, yes, I 11:31:12

2 would like to see temporary suspensions in place 11:31:15

3 pending a full hearing on the merits. 11:31:21

4 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And you want the hearing 11:31:23

5 to -- to take less than six months, right? 11:31:25

6 A. Yes. Where possible. 11:31:33

7 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 10 was 11:31:33

8 identified.) 11:31:33

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. Let me go to 11:31:34

10 Exhibit 10. 11:31:35

11 A. Are you going to have enough stickers? Do 11:31:38

12 we need to like go out and get a couple more? 11:31:41

13 Q. Yeah. And this is a couple of emails. It 11:31:58

14 looks like Ronda started it. 11:32:00

15 Do you know who Sue -- Susanne Lyons is? 11:32:05

16 Do you know? 11:32:06

17 A. Yes. 11:32:06

18 Q. Who is she? 11:32:06

19 A. She is a USOC Board member. 11:32:06

20 Q. And this is an email from -- it looks 11:32:26

21 like, initially, from Ronda to Ms. Lyons complaining 11:32:29

22 about it's taken seven months get the hearing to 11:32:34

23 take place in Gitelman's case, right? 11:32:41

24 A. The rescheduled hearing, yes. 11:32:45

25 Q. And then, at some point, someone doesn't 11:32:55

Page 125
1 want to become Ronda's pen pal. It looks like 11:32:58

2 Susanne doesn't want to become Ronda's pen pal, and 11:33:01

3 asks for Gary to -- suggests a short reply, right? 11:33:03

4 A. Yes. That's what the email appears to 11:33:13

5 state. 11:33:14

6 Q. And it looks like Gary then wrote to you, 11:33:15

7 "I'll respond to Susanne. I am sending this to you 11:33:17

8 because of the continuing SafeSport allegations." 11:33:22

9 You were head of SafeSport at this time, 11:33:26

10 right? 11:33:26

11 A. Yes. 11:33:27

12 Q. And so you're just kind of being kept 11:33:29

13 abreast of what's going on with the -- the Gitelman 11:33:31

14 issue? 11:33:32

15 A. Yes. I believe so. I think that's what 11:33:34

16 he was doing. 11:33:37

17 Q. Did you take any action after receiving 11:33:37

18 this email? 11:33:39

19 A. We would have had -- we would have had 11:33:39

20 additional conversations with Taekwondo. 11:33:41

21 It was, I believe, it -- it would have 11:33:48

22 been during April at some point that it would have 11:33:51

23 been communicated to me or to somebody else at the 11:33:56

24 U.S. Olympic Committee that -- I believe that the 11:33:57

25 witnesses had been in- -- instructed to no longer 11:34:03

Page 126
1 cooperate with Taekwondo's process. 11:34:09

2 Q. I'm sorry. The witnesses -- 11:34:12

3 MS. HOLM: Do you want her to read it 11:34:18

4 back? 11:34:18

5 MR. ESTEY: Yes, please. 11:34:18

6 MS. HOLM: Could we have the answer read 11:34:23

7 back? Thank you. 11:34:23

8 THE WITNESS: You weren't listening to me? 11:34:23

9 MR. ESTEY: No. You're like a dog whistle 11:34:24

10 now. 11:34:24

11 MR. LITTLE: Sorry. 11:34:24

12 THE WITNESS: Are you okay? 11:34:24

13 MR. LITTLE: Yeah. 11:34:24

14 MR. ESTEY: Just the last part. 11:34:24

15 (Last question read back). 11:34:56

16 MS. HOLM: USAT. 11:34:56

17 MR. OKAMURA: I heard USAT. 11:34:56

18 MS. HOLM: Yes. I heard USAT. 11:34:56

19 MR. LITTLE: I heard USAT process. 11:34:56

20 MS. HOLM: Right. 11:34:56

21 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And so the 11:34:56

22 witness is referring to, he's talking about Yazmin 11:34:56

23 Brown and -- and the other athletes that accused 11:34:57

24 Gitelman? 11:34:57

25 A. Generically. I don't know that it was 11:35:03

Page 127
1 specific to all -- 11:35:05

2 Q. Okay. 11:35:07

3 A. -- all of them, but the general 11:35:07

4 understanding we received is that there was a lack 11:35:09

5 of cooperation at that time. 11:35:13

6 Q. For the second hearing, right? 11:35:15

7 A. For the April hearing, yes. 11:35:19

8 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 11 was 11:35:20

9 identified.) 11:35:20

10 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. Let me show 11:35:22

11 you marked Exhibit 11. 11:35:24

12 It looks like this is a continued email 11:35:47

13 chain. It looks like, at some point, Lyons says -- 11:35:55

14 in response to Ronda Sweet about canceling the 11:35:58

15 hearing, it says, "Very disappointing. I have asked 11:36:04

16 that USOC look into this." 11:36:07

17 Did Susanne Lyons ever talk to you about 11:36:09

18 what was going on with the Gitelman hearing? 11:36:12

19 A. No. I have never spoken with Susanne 11:36:14

20 Lyons about Taekwondo. 11:36:16

21 Q. All right. Do you know who -- who she was 11:36:18

22 talking to at USOC? 11:36:19

23 A. I don't know if she was ever talking to 11:36:21

24 somebody at USOC. It may well have just been the 11:36:23

25 email -- 11:36:27

Page 128
1 Q. All right. 11:36:28

2 A. -- communications. 11:36:28

3 Q. All right. And so we'll mark Exhibit 12, 11:36:29

4 I think. 11:36:36

5 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 12 was 11:36:36

6 identified.) 11:36:36

7 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And 12 is the continuing 11:36:36

8 email chains. 11:36:51

9 And do you recall receiving these emails? 11:36:51

10 A. Hold on a second. This one's pretty long. 11:37:07

11 Q. Yeah. 11:37:11

12 Looks like you are pretty active in this 11:37:11

13 one too. 11:37:15

14 A. I do, yes. 11:37:21

15 Q. All right. And so, at some point, you 11:37:22

16 write -- it looks like on April 29th, 2014, you 11:37:26

17 write to Rick Adams and you say, "Rick, Rachel: 11:37:29

18 FYI. If okay with the group, I'd like to work with 11:37:33

19 John," slash, "Gary to set up a call with Bruce 11:37:38

20 and/or Hess ASAP." What do you -- what do you mean 11:37:41

21 there? 11:37:46

22 A. That I'd like to set up a phone call with 11:37:47

23 them as quickly as possible. 11:37:49

24 Q. And John and Gary are who? 11:37:50

25 A. John Ruger, Gary Johansen. 11:37:52

Page 129
1 Q. Okay. 11:37:58

2 COURT REPORTER: John Ruger, Gary what? 11:37:59

3 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. John Ruger and 11:37:59

4 Gary Johansen. 11:37:59

5 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And then Adams 11:37:59

6 says, "Please do." 11:37:59

7 Rachel says, "Good here." 11:38:01

8 And then you write, "Thoughts" -- and this 11:38:04

9 is in reference to the Gitelman reinstatement 11:38:07

10 request. "Thoughts? Do you guys know more than I 11:38:10

11 do? Start with Hess?" What do you mean by that? 11:38:14

12 A. You know, during this time there are, you 11:38:18

13 know, obviously multiple individuals who have been 11:38:22

14 having conversations and been trying to understand 11:38:26

15 what's going on and trying to understand what next 11:38:28

16 steps are. 11:38:31

17 So, what I was asking was whether or not 11:38:32

18 they had a better understanding of why the hearing 11:38:34

19 had been canceled and what happened. 11:38:36

20 So, I was just trying to figure out if 11:38:39

21 they had more information than I do because I was 11:38:41

22 quite confused by what was going on, I think. 11:38:44

23 Q. Did they? Do you know? 11:38:46

24 A. I don't know. I don't remember. 11:38:47

25 Q. And, then, on the -- if you look at the 11:38:49

Page 130
1 first page from Ruger to you and Johansen, it says, 11:38:51

2 "I do not know much about the details other than 11:38:55

3 they have completely screwed up the hearing 11:38:59

4 process," "they" being USA Taekwondo, right? 11:39:01

5 A. I didn't author this, but I would assume 11:39:05

6 that John is referring to Taekwondo, yes. 11:39:08

7 Q. That -- that was your understanding when 11:39:09

8 you read it, right? 11:39:10

9 A. Yes. 11:39:11

10 Q. Okay. Do you agree with that statement 11:39:11

11 that USA Taekwondo completely screwed up the hearing 11:39:13

12 process involving Gitelman and my client, Yazmin 11:39:18

13 Brown? 11:39:21

14 MS. HOLM: Well, calls for an opinion that 11:39:24

15 may be legal in nature. 11:39:24

16 But your state of mind at the time. Did 11:39:27

17 you have a thought? 11:39:29

18 A. It was unclear to me whether or not they 11:39:31

19 had actually, quote unquote, "screwed up the hearing 11:39:33

20 process." I think they probably, you know, in the 11:39:37

21 first one would have did it maybe a little 11:39:39

22 differently than I did, but there wasn't a 11:39:43

23 subsequent hearing after that, right? 11:39:46

24 So, I mean, screwing up the hearing 11:39:47

25 process suggests that the process had, in fact, 11:39:50

Page 131
1 taken place on the time- -- timetable they had 11:39:53

2 communicated that it was going to take place on. 11:39:55

3 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Did you ever write back to 11:39:58

4 Ruger and say, No, I think the USAT actually did a 11:39:58

5 good job with the process? 11:40:04

6 MS. HOLM: Argumentative as phrased, but 11:40:05

7 you can answer that question. 11:40:06

8 A. Not that I recall, no. 11:40:07

9 Q. Okay. All right. 11:40:12

10 MR. ESTEY: What number are we on? 13? 11:40:22

11 THE WITNESS: 13. 11:40:24

12 COURT REPORTER: Yeah. 11:40:42

13 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 13 was 11:40:44

14 identified.) 11:40:44

15 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And this is -- looks like 11:40:52

16 a continuing chain of emails. 11:40:54

17 And it looks like -- to be honest with 11:41:01

18 you, it looks like it's just logistics, setting up 11:41:03

19 the meeting, so I don't really -- do you see 11:41:07

20 anything on there that's important? 11:41:09

21 MS. HOLM: Probably shouldn't have even 11:41:12

22 been sent to you at all. 11:41:12

23 MR. ESTEY: Yeah, I think so. 11:41:15

24 MS. HOLM: It's internal legal 11:41:15

25 communications, but it's okay. 11:41:16

Page 132
1 MR. ESTEY: I -- I don't want to talk 11:41:18

2 about that anyway, so how's that? 11:41:19

3 Q. (By Mr. Estey) I think we've seen 11:41:26

4 these -- most of these. These are all kind of 11:41:27

5 convoluted. 11:41:37

6 Okay. We can talk about this one. 11:41:39

7 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 14 was 11:41:41

8 introduced.) 11:41:41

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) This is an email from 11:41:50

10 looks like Lady Taekwondo, which is -- that's Ronda 11:41:54

11 Sweet, right? Lady TKD? 11:41:56

12 A. As best I understand it, yes. 11:42:01

13 Q. Okay. And do you recall receiving this 11:42:03

14 email? 11:42:10

15 A. I mean, I don't recall it, but I'm sure it 11:42:35

16 came in, yes. So, yes, I'm sure I recall -- 11:42:38

17 Q. In general, do you recall Ms. Sweet 11:42:40

18 complaining about what was going on in the Gitelman 11:42:44

19 hearing? 11:42:48

20 A. Yes. 11:42:52

21 Q. And what response did you have, if any, to 11:42:57

22 this March 10th, 2014, email? 11:43:00

23 A. This is about the same time, give or take, 11:43:03

24 that we would have worked to learn that the hearing 11:43:10

25 had been rescheduled for early April. 11:43:13

Page 133
1 Q. Did you reach out to Ms. Sweet to respond 11:43:17

2 to this -- this email? 11:43:20

3 A. I don't recall one way or another. 11:43:22

4 Q. And do you recall if you took any action 11:43:24

5 after reading this email? 11:43:26

6 A. Again, this was a time that, internally, 11:43:28

7 we were attempting to figure out what was going on 11:43:31

8 and where they were in the process. 11:43:35

9 Q. All right. 11:43:37

10 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 15 was 11:43:37

11 identified.) 11:43:37

12 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And Exhibit 15 is an email 11:43:38

13 from, again, Ronda Sweet to you and Mr. Johansen 11:43:55

14 and -- where she attaches the police report and 11:44:00

15 other documents. Do you recall receiving that email 11:44:06

16 from Ms. Sweet? Did she give you a kind of dot to 11:44:11

17 dot what happened? 11:44:18

18 A. Yes. 11:44:21

19 Q. All right. Did you read this when it -- 11:44:23

20 when it came in? 11:44:26

21 A. Yes. 11:44:28

22 Q. Did you have a response? 11:44:29

23 A. I don't recall whether or not I responded 11:44:33

24 to her specifically. 11:44:34

25 Q. Did you discuss with anyone other than an 11:44:35

Page 134
1 attorney this -- this email? 11:44:37

2 A. I don't recall whether or not it was 11:44:41

3 somebody other than an attorney. I do recall, 11:44:42

4 again, having conversations around this time to 11:44:45

5 figure out where they were in process. 11:44:49

6 Q. And were you troubled by the fact that as 11:44:53

7 of February, Gitelman was still coaching at the U.S. 11:44:56

8 Open? 11:45:02

9 A. I think I was confused as much as 11:45:05

10 anything. 11:45:06

11 To the extent that it was accurate, again, 11:45:08

12 we would, of course, like to see temporary 11:45:10

13 suspensions implemented and enforced. 11:45:14

14 Q. Do you talk to Harris about temporary 11:45:17

15 suspensions being implemented and enforced with 11:45:20

16 Gitelman? 11:45:23

17 A. I don't recall whether we had that 11:45:24

18 conversation. We -- we had other conversations 11:45:26

19 about it. 11:45:27

20 Q. What do you mean by that? 11:45:28

21 A. Bruce Harris and I had conversations about 11:45:29

22 the Gitelman case. 11:45:35

23 Q. And did you talk about the temporary 11:45:36

24 suspension that should be enforced? 11:45:38

25 A. I'm sure we did. I don't remember what 11:45:41

Page 135
1 the content of it was. 11:45:43

2 Q. What did he say, what did you say, 11:45:45

3 generally? 11:45:47

4 A. Listen, I honestly don't recall whether I 11:45:50

5 had that conversation or whether somebody else had 11:45:53

6 that conversation. I just -- I don't remember. 11:45:57

7 Q. All right. At the time this Gitelman 11:46:00

8 hearing issue was -- was taking place, USA Taekwondo 11:46:12

9 was on suspension or on probation with USOC, right? 11:46:16

10 MS. HOLM: Which hearing? 11:46:23

11 MR. ESTEY: The Gitelman hearing. 11:46:27

12 MS. HOLM: In January? 11:46:27

13 MR. ESTEY: Well, in September, they 11:46:27

14 wouldn't be around. 11:46:28

15 MS. HOLM: Well, the hearing was in 11:46:28

16 January. 11:46:30

17 MR. ESTEY: Yes. 11:46:31

18 MS. HOLM: Okay. I -- I think it's 11:46:31

19 incorrect foundation. 11:46:35

20 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. Let me ask you 11:46:37

21 this: 11:46:38

22 A. Yeah. 11:46:38

23 Q. You -- you understand that USAT was on -- 11:46:38

24 was -- was suspended or -- or put on probation for a 11:46:43

25 time, right? 11:46:49

Page 136
1 A. Yeah. I mean, I think at -- at some 11:46:54

2 point, I learned it. I'm not sure I was aware of it 11:46:56

3 contemporaneously. 11:46:58

4 Q. Okay. Do you know what timeframe that 11:47:01

5 was? 11:47:03

6 A. I don't. 11:47:04

7 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 16 was 11:47:04

8 identified.) 11:47:04

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. And this is 11:47:04

10 a -- a letter from -- an email from looks like 11:47:20

11 Susanne Lyons, and it looks like Mr. Blackmun was 11:47:24

12 cc'd on this. Can you take a look at this? 11:47:29

13 A. Yes. 11:47:41

14 Q. Do you recall receiving this -- 11:47:45

15 Exhibit 16? 11:47:47

16 A. No, primarily because my email address 11:47:49

17 isn't correct, so I'm confident it bounced back. 11:47:52

18 Q. Oh. 11:47:56

19 A. Whether or not it was re-sent, I don't 11:48:02

20 know. 11:48:03

21 Q. Do you recall if -- if Susanne Lyons ever 11:48:03

22 asked USOC to assist USAT with the Gitelman hearing 11:48:06

23 process? 11:48:11

24 MS. HOLM: He's asking -- 11:48:17

25 A. I think -- 11:48:17

Page 137
1 MS. HOLM: -- for your recollection. 11:48:17

2 A. Oh, yeah. I mean, I recall, from the 11:48:19

3 general course of comments, that Susanne was 11:48:27

4 obviously trying to pass the information along and 11:48:30

5 see what, if anything, the USOC could do by the way 11:48:35

6 of resources for Taekwondo. 11:48:40

7 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And do you recall if you 11:48:44

8 ever gave a response in that regard? 11:48:45

9 A. Whether I gave a response to her or 11:48:48

10 whether I did what she was asking? 11:48:49

11 Q. Both. 11:48:53

12 A. I don't recall whether or not I gave a 11:48:54

13 response. I did pick up the phone and talk to 11:48:55

14 Mr. Harris. 11:49:00

15 Q. And what did -- what did you talk to 11:49:01

16 Mr. Harris about? 11:49:03

17 A. Depends on the timeframe. I had -- would 11:49:07

18 have had a conversation with him late -- late 11:49:12

19 earl- -- late April, early May, in response to the 11:49:19

20 letter Ronda Sweet forwarded from Gitelman. 11:49:28

21 Q. I'm sorry. Can you say that again? 11:49:35

22 A. I would have had a conversation with 11:49:43

23 Mr. Harris either in late April or probably early 11:49:44

24 May after Ronda Sweet had forwarded Gitelman's 11:49:52

25 letter to -- to Bruce in Taekwondo. 11:49:56

Page 138
1 Q. And what -- what did he say, what did you 11:50:02

2 say in that -- that conversation? 11:50:07

3 A. Don't recall all of -- all of the 11:50:09

4 specifics, but, you know, what we had learned in 11:50:11

5 April. 11:50:13

6 So, the hearing had been reset for April. 11:50:13

7 I believe sometime near the end of April, we learned 11:50:16

8 that that hearing that we had told was going to 11:50:19

9 happen did not happen. Received the letter from 11:50:22

10 Gitelman. 11:50:25

11 But what we were told, again, I -- was, 11:50:26

12 you know, these young women have been instructed not 11:50:28

13 to cooperate with the process, so we don't know what 11:50:34

14 to do. We don't know how to move forward. 11:50:38

15 I indicated to him at that time that I 11:50:42

16 thought he had sufficient documentary evidence from 11:50:44

17 Gitelman, based on the letter and/or the previous 11:50:45

18 documentary evidence, to move forward without them. 11:50:50

19 Q. Without the -- the Complainants, Yazmin 11:50:54

20 Brown and Kendra and -- 11:50:55

21 A. Without them as witnesses, correct. 11:50:59

22 Q. And what -- what was his response? 11:51:01

23 A. I -- I suspect that he was -- would have 11:51:04

24 then consulted with counsel, but I don't -- I don't 11:51:06

25 really remember. 11:51:06

Page 139
1 MS. HOLM: Don't speculate, please. 11:51:09

2 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sorry. 11:51:11

3 A. I don't know. 11:51:11

4 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. Now, you would 11:51:12

5 agree with me that -- that any coach who commits a 11:51:28

6 lewd act upon a child, that would have been a 11:51:39

7 violation of SafeSport policies, right? 11:51:42

8 MS. HOLM: It's calling for an expert 11:51:50

9 opinion, but go ahead. 11:51:51

10 A. Yeah. Under the minimum standards, the 11:51:54

11 NGBs were required to implement -- were required to 11:51:55

12 prohibit and define six forms of misconduct, 11:52:03

13 including sexual misconduct. 11:52:07

14 So, you know, to the extent that they -- 11:52:09

15 by the way, I mean, we'd be in violation of criminal 11:52:11

16 law if we're talking about lewd acts being, you 11:52:15

17 know, tantamount to criminal law, but it wouldn't 11:52:19

18 have been a violation of -- I'm -- I'm actually not 11:52:19

19 sure what you're asking. Whose policy are we 11:52:24

20 talking about? 11:52:26

21 Q. USOC's. 11:52:27

22 A. It would have been a violation of USOC's 11:52:29

23 policy? 11:52:30

24 Q. Yeah. 11:52:32

25 A. Yes. 11:52:32

Page 140
1 What timeframe are we talking about? I 11:52:33

2 mean, yes, because, again, it was -- would have been 11:52:35

3 criminal, so -- 11:52:35

4 Q. Yeah. 11:52:35

5 A. -- yes. 11:52:35

6 Q. At any time, even -- even before you were 11:52:38

7 Director of SafeSport, right? 11:52:39

8 A. Yes. 11:52:42

9 Q. All right. And oral copulation with a 11:52:42

10 person under the age of 18, that would have been a 11:52:44

11 violation of both SafeSport and any policies that 11:52:47

12 USOC had in place prior to initiating SafeSport, 11:52:51

13 right? 11:52:53

14 MS. HOLM: Well, object to the form of the 11:52:54

15 question. It's compound as phrased, and it calls 11:52:55

16 for speculation, a lack of foundation has been laid 11:52:58

17 with regard to the second part of your question. 11:53:00

18 MR. LITTLE: Enjoin. 11:53:04

19 MS. HOLM: So, if you want to split it in 11:53:05

20 half? 11:53:06

21 MR. ESTEY: I'm just trying to move it 11:53:06

22 along. 11:53:07

23 MS. HOLM: Oh, I know. Let's -- 11:53:08

24 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. So, oral 11:53:10

25 copulation with a minor, all right, that would be a 11:53:11

Page 141
1 violation of SafeSport policy, correct? 11:53:15

2 A. Of the -- of the current USOC SafeSport -- 11:53:18

3 Q. Yes. 11:53:20

4 A. -- policy? Yes. 11:53:20

5 Q. And in 20 -- the years 20 -- no, 2007, 11:53:22

6 2011, that also would have been a violation of some 11:53:27

7 USOC policy, right? 11:53:32

8 MS. HOLM: Well, there's a lack of 11:53:34

9 foundation, and calls for pure speculation, and -- 11:53:36

10 and, also, I guess it's a hypothetical that's 11:53:39

11 without any facts and basis for her to even give you 11:53:43

12 an opinion in that regard. 11:53:45

13 So, I'll instruct her not to answer that 11:53:45

14 one. 11:53:51

15 MR. ESTEY: All right. 11:53:51

16 MR. LITTLE: Enjoin the objections. 11:53:53

17 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Do you -- do you have an 11:53:53

18 understanding of what -- what Gitelman was convicted 11:53:53

19 of? 11:53:57

20 MS. HOLM: Well, separate and apart from 11:53:58

21 anything you've learned from legal counsel. 11:53:59

22 MR. ESTEY: Well, it's public record. 11:54:04

23 That's not a -- 11:54:06

24 MS. HOLM: Well, I didn't say that she 11:54:06

25 doesn't know something from public record. I'm just 11:54:08

Page 142
1 saying separate and apart. 11:54:09

2 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Let me ask you this: You 11:54:10

3 know that -- are you aware that Gitelman was con- -- 11:54:11

4 convicted for lewd act upon a child, oral copulation 11:54:13

5 with a person under age 18, and unlawful sexual 11:54:16

6 intercourse with a minor? 11:54:20

7 A. I mean, I don't know that I would have 11:54:23

8 remembered -- I don't know if I could have repeated 11:54:24

9 that back to you, but certainly, at some point, I 11:54:27

10 would have understood that, yes. 11:54:30

11 Q. All right. And these are all acts that 11:54:31

12 SafeSport seeks to prevent, right? 11:54:33

13 A. Yes. 11:54:41

14 Q. All right. And what -- if you know, what 11:54:41

15 policies and procedures did USAT have in place, 11:54:44

16 during the years 2007 to 2013, to prevent these 11:54:48

17 acts, the lewd act upon a child, oral copulation 11:54:56

18 with a person under the age of 18, unlawful sexual 11:54:58

19 intercourse with a minor, what policies and 11:55:02

20 procedures did USAT have in place to prevent this, 11:55:05

21 if you know? 11:55:08

22 A. I don't know. I don't know. 11:55:08

23 (Plaintiffs' Deposition Exhibit 18 was 11:55:09

24 introduced.) 11:55:09

25 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. I'm going to 11:55:09

Page 143
1 be show you what we'll mark as Exhibit 18, and then 11:55:26

2 just confirm for this is the actual, if you know, 11:55:29

3 USA Taekwondo SafeSport Strategy, Policies and 11:55:35

4 Procedures. Have you seen that before? 11:55:41

5 A. I've certainly seen a version of this. Do 11:55:43

6 we have a date for it? 11:55:46

7 Q. I'm not sure. 11:55:47

8 MS. HOLM: What was Exhibit 17? 11:55:54

9 MR. ESTEY: I skipped 17 because it 11:55:56

10 related to Mr. Johansen only, so... 11:55:57

11 THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, that's why I 11:56:01

12 was just having -- 11:56:01

13 MR. ESTEY: At least you're paying 11:56:03

14 attention. 11:56:03

15 MS. HOLM: I am listening to you. 11:56:04

16 MR. ESTEY: All right. 11:56:05

17 MS. HOLM: Great attention. 11:56:05

18 MR. ESTEY: So, there is no 17. This goes 11:56:06

19 right to 18. 11:56:08

20 A. Sorry. Where are we on what the question 11:56:12

21 is? 11:56:15

22 MS. HOLM: It's Exhibit 18. He -- I was 11:56:15

23 asking him. 11:56:17

24 A. Okay. So, it's Exhibit 18. 11:56:18

25 I am confident that at one point in time, 11:56:21

Page 144
1 I received a copy of their SafeSport materials. 11:56:25

2 Whether or not it was this one or a subsequent 11:56:29

3 version, I don't know. 11:56:31

4 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Did you have any role in 11:56:34

5 authoring Exhibit 18? 11:56:36

6 A. No. 11:56:38

7 Q. Did you review Exhibit 18 any time prior 11:56:38

8 to today's date? 11:56:41

9 A. Review it, meaning like did I ever look at 11:56:44

10 it? 11:56:47

11 Q. Yeah. 11:56:47

12 A. "Review" can mean a lot of things, right, 11:56:48

13 like -- 11:56:49

14 Q. You're an attorney. I'm -- I'm very 11:56:50

15 simple. 11:56:51

16 Did you -- did you look at it? Did you 11:56:52

17 read it? 11:56:53

18 A. At some point, I would have. 11:57:03

19 Q. All right. And what point would that have 11:57:05

20 been? 11:57:07

21 A. The last time I recall looking at it is 11:57:11

22 when I believe Taekwondo may have been updating 11:57:13

23 things in the last couple of years. I don't 11:57:18

24 remember exactly when I was taking a look at it. 11:57:21

25 Q. Did someone ask you to read it? 11:57:24

Page 145
1 A. No, I don't recall anybody specifically 11:57:30

2 asking me to read it. 11:57:33

3 Q. Did you approve it? 11:57:34

4 A. No. 11:57:35

5 Q. Do you -- do you have to approve an NGBs 11:57:37

6 SafeSport Strategy, Policies and Procedures? 11:57:37

7 A. No. 11:57:45

8 Q. All right. Who approves the SafeSport 11:57:47

9 Strategy, Policies and Procedures to determine -- 11:57:48

10 strike that. 11:57:52

11 Who -- who determine -- who at USOC 11:57:53

12 determines whether or not a National Governing 11:57:56

13 Body's SafeSport Strategy, Policies and Procedures 11:57:57

14 are in compliance with the USOC SafeSport 11:57:59

15 initiative? 11:58:05

16 MS. HOLM: Well, I have to object to the 11:58:06

17 form of the question. It's overbroad as phrased and 11:58:06

18 assumes that there was somebody who makes such 11:58:09

19 approval. 11:58:12

20 MR. LITTLE: Enjoin. 11:58:12

21 A. Okay. So, it's not compliance with the 11:58:14

22 SafeSport initiative. It would be compliance with 11:58:16

23 the minimum standards -- 11:58:20

24 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. 11:58:20

25 A. -- right? 11:58:20

Page 146
1 So, the audit department is the department 11:58:22

2 that would look at whether or not an NGB had -- is 11:58:28

3 complying with the minimum standards. It would be 11:58:36

4 the audit department. 11:58:38

5 Q. Who's in -- who's in charge of the audit 11:58:39

6 department? 11:58:41

7 A. Bridgette Toelle. 11:58:42

8 Q. Is she here local? 11:58:45

9 A. Yes. 11:58:47

10 MR. LITTLE: Can you spell that last name. 11:58:50

11 THE WITNESS: T-O-E-L-L-E. 11:58:52

12 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And did you ever review 11:58:54

13 any sort of policies and procedures that USA 11:58:55

14 Taekwondo had in effect prior to this SafeSport 11:58:58

15 strategy? 11:59:02

16 A. I don't recall. It's unlikely. 11:59:11

17 Q. All right. 11:59:14

18 A. I don't -- I don't know when this was 11:59:14

19 implemented, so it's a little bit hard for me to say 11:59:16

20 did I read anything subsequently. 11:59:19

21 Q. All right. And do you know -- we talked 11:59:22

22 earlier that -- that USAT was on probation from 11:59:27

23 USOC, right? 11:59:32

24 A. You asked me a question about it. You 11:59:34

25 stated that, yeah. 11:59:37

Page 147
1 Q. Well, you were -- you were aware of it. 11:59:37

2 You answered that you were aware of it, right? 11:59:39

3 A. I was aware of it, yeah. Not at the time. 11:59:41

4 I think I subsequently learned about it. 11:59:43

5 Q. What -- do -- do you have knowledge as to 11:59:45

6 what that means when -- when an NGB is put on 11:59:46

7 probation by the USOC? 11:59:49

8 A. I don't. 11:59:52

9 Q. Who would know that? 11:59:52

10 A. Gary Johansen. 11:59:53

11 Q. All right. Do you know if the USOC had an 11:59:57

12 advisory board or -- or placed in a temporary board 12:00:03

13 to help USA Taekwondo get off probation? 12:00:09

14 A. I don't. 12:00:13

15 Q. Okay. And are you familiar with the 12:00:15

16 policies and procedures that the USOC has in place 12:00:18

17 at the Olympic training facilities? 12:00:22

18 A. Yes. 12:00:28

19 Q. All right. And are there policies and 12:00:29

20 procedures in place currently designed to prevent 12:00:30

21 sexual abuse at the Olympic Training Centers? 12:00:36

22 A. Yes. 12:00:43

23 Q. And where are those policies and 12:00:44

24 procedures located? 12:00:48

25 A. They're the U.S. Olympic Committee 12:00:49

Page 148
1 SafeSport policies that can be found on TeamUSA.org. 12:00:51

2 Q. All right. And what -- are you familiar 12:00:58

3 with those policies? 12:00:59

4 A. Yes. 12:01:00

5 Q. And what -- what are the -- in general, 12:01:00

6 what are the policies that the USOC has in place to 12:01:02

7 prevent sexual abuse at the actual location of the 12:01:05

8 Olympic Training Centers? 12:01:09

9 A. The USOC's SafeSport policies apply to the 12:01:10

10 Olympic Training Center and anyone else who is, you 12:01:15

11 know, competing or residing there. 12:01:19

12 So, there's an education component. It, 12:01:22

13 you know, identifies and defines and prohibits 12:01:22

14 various forms of sexual misconduct. 12:01:27

15 There's a mandatory reporting obligation, 12:01:32

16 and I believe an enforcement procedure. 12:01:34

17 Q. Is -- but are there -- are there rules in 12:01:38

18 place, like, for example, not to separate from 12:01:38

19 the -- the boys from the girls, separate dorms, 12:01:43

20 where they sleep? 12:01:44

21 A. I don't believe so. I don't know, though. 12:01:47

22 I don't -- no, I don't think so. 12:01:47

23 Q. Why not? 12:01:49

24 A. Well, I don't know -- I guess I don't know 12:01:51

25 what you mean by "separate from," right? Because if 12:01:53

Page 149
1 you look at a dormitory space, they're going to have 12:01:56

2 different floors. So, it's not like -- I don't -- I 12:02:00

3 don't -- I just don't -- I don't have enough 12:02:03

4 information to answer the question as stated. 12:02:08

5 Q. Have you ever become aware of any 12:02:10

6 allegations of -- of sexual abuse at the Olympic 12:02:12

7 Training Center here in Colorado? 12:02:15

8 MS. HOLM: Separate and apart from any 12:02:17

9 conversations with attorneys for either USOC, during 12:02:18

10 the course of your employment there, or during the 12:02:23

11 course of this litigation. 12:02:26

12 THE WITNESS: Okay. And, I'm sorry. May 12:02:28

13 I have the question read back, please. 12:02:28

14 (Last question read back). 12:02:31

15 A. Yes. 12:02:45

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Okay. And what -- what 12:02:46

17 instance have you made -- been made aware of? 12:02:49

18 A. I was made aware of the allegations 12:02:52

19 involving Yazmin Brown when the Complaint was filed. 12:02:57

20 Q. Okay. Anyone else? Any other instances 12:03:02

21 that you've been made aware of? 12:03:06

22 A. The only other ones that I would have been 12:03:08

23 aware of would have been made -- would have been 12:03:11

24 through the Complaint when it was filed. 12:03:13

25 Q. All right. 12:03:17

Page 150
1 THE WITNESS: Did you catch that? 12:03:20

2 Okay. 12:03:20

3 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And what did -- what did 12:03:20

4 you learn through the Complaint regarding Yazmin 12:03:20

5 Brown? What's your understanding of what happened 12:03:22

6 at the Olympic Training Center? 12:03:25

7 A. What I understood from that allegation is 12:03:27

8 that she, I believe, had sexual intercourse with 12:03:30

9 Gitelman while she was on the premises. 12:03:33

10 Q. And how old was she at the time? 12:03:36

11 A. Sixteen or 17. 12:03:42

12 Q. All right. And did -- did you have an 12:03:44

13 understanding as to where her room was located in 12:03:46

14 relation to Gitelman's? 12:03:49

15 A. I don't remember if it was in the 12:03:55

16 Complaint, but yes. 12:03:56

17 Q. Where? 12:03:57

18 A. My understanding is that they were across 12:03:59

19 the hall from one another. 12:04:01

20 Q. All right. What policies and procedures 12:04:02

21 did USOC have in place at that time to prevent a 12:04:04

22 coach from sexually abusing his athlete on the 12:04:09

23 USOC's Olympic Training Center grounds? 12:04:13

24 MS. HOLM: Can we get a foundation as to 12:04:18

25 the time that we're talking about? 12:04:20

Page 151
1 MR. ESTEY: Yeah. When -- when did that 12:04:36

2 happen? 12:04:36

3 Just for Yaz. 12:04:36

4 MS. HOLM: And -- and let's just lay a 12:04:36

5 little bit of a foundation here about your 12:04:37

6 knowledge, if you don't mind -- 12:04:41

7 MR. ESTEY: Yeah. 12:04:42

8 MS. HOLM: -- that you're talking about 12:04:42

9 right now. 12:04:43

10 Did you learn that from the Complaint, and 12:04:44

11 just reading the Complaint when you were served with 12:04:45

12 the Complaint, or have you learned information 12:04:47

13 through the course of this litigation from counsel 12:04:50

14 with regard to Ms. Brown's specific allegations? 12:04:53

15 Because, that, we're not going to go into? 12:04:57

16 MR. ESTEY: I'm already beyond the -- if 12:05:00

17 it helps you, I'm already beyond the -- the factual 12:05:02

18 basis. I'm just going into the policies and 12:05:05

19 procedures to prevent that type of stuff happening. 12:05:08

20 MS. HOLM: I know, but I -- I thought she 12:05:11

21 was talking about the Complaint, and I thought you 12:05:12

22 were going to go into further discussion about it. 12:05:14

23 So, what you're going to go into right now 12:05:14

24 is going to tell her when the date allegedly was of 12:05:16

25 those policies and procedures you want to get into? 12:05:20

Page 152
1 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Yeah. All right. In 12:05:21

2 November of 2011, what policies and procedures did 12:05:22

3 the USOC have in place to prevent a coach from 12:05:25

4 sexually abusing an underage athlete while on 12:05:29

5 Olympic Training Center grounds? 12:05:33

6 A. It would have been a combination of the 12:05:38

7 Coaching Code of Ethics, the USOC's Code of Conduct, 12:05:40

8 and criminal law. 12:05:42

9 Q. And what, under the Code of Ethics, was 12:05:51

10 designed to prevent this type of thing from 12:05:53

11 happening? 12:05:56

12 A. I mean, this goes back into the 12:05:56

13 prohibition on physical and sexual abuse, and that 12:05:58

14 applying, you know, to the USOC and the NGBs. 12:06:02

15 Q. And what in the Code of Conduct was 12:06:07

16 designed to prevent this type of thing from 12:06:09

17 happening? 12:06:11

18 A. Didn't I just answer that? 12:06:14

19 Q. That was for the Code of Ethics. 12:06:16

20 A. Oh, sorry. I thought I was answering it 12:06:18

21 for the Code of Conduct. Forgive me. 12:06:20

22 Q. Okay. 12:06:23

23 A. The co- -- so, the answer I just gave, I 12:06:23

24 was stating under the Code of Conduct. 12:06:24

25 The Coaching Ethics Code had prohibitions 12:06:27

Page 153
1 on sexual harassment and exploitative relationships 12:06:31

2 involving an imbalance of power. 12:06:35

3 Q. And who at the Olympic Training Center on 12:06:38

4 behalf of USOC was in charge of enforcing the Code 12:06:40

5 of Ethics and the Code of Conduct in -- in 2011? 12:06:43

6 MS. HOLM: Object to the form of the 12:06:48

7 question. Assumes that there was such enforcement 12:06:50

8 power or person. 12:06:53

9 Can you answer the question? 12:06:54

10 A. I mean, two things. We always expect the 12:07:03

11 NGBs to -- or whoever is sort of, you know, holding 12:07:05

12 a camp there, whoever it is, to sort of monitor 12:07:08

13 their situations that -- what I can tell you is that 12:07:16

14 the head of the OTC's at the time would have been 12:07:18

15 Mike English. 12:07:21

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And my -- my question -- 12:07:25

17 you may not know the answer, but my question is more 12:07:28

18 specific, is who at the USOC was in charge of making 12:07:31

19 sure that the Code of Ethics and the -- the Code of 12:07:35

20 Conduct was followed while athletes and coaches were 12:07:37

21 on Olympic Training Center grounds? 12:07:42

22 A. In 2011? 12:07:45

23 Q. Yes, ma'am. 12:07:47

24 A. It would have been a combination of 12:07:50

25 people. It would have been a combination of Human 12:07:52

Page 154
1 Resources, you know, the -- the people who oversee 12:07:55

2 the Olympic Training Centers, our legal department. 12:07:57

3 I mean, it would have been a combination of 12:08:00

4 individuals. 12:08:03

5 Q. All right. Do you know how it was -- 12:08:05

6 strike that. 12:08:06

7 I guess in 2011 it was okay for a coach to 12:08:07

8 have a -- a room directly across from his underaged 12:08:10

9 athlete's room. 12:08:15

10 A. Do I know if it was prohibited? 12:08:16

11 Yeah. So, I mean, here -- here's the 12:08:18

12 challenge with sort of determining where the coaches 12:08:20

13 reside and where the athletes reside, particularly 12:08:27

14 if they're under age. 12:08:30

15 Going back to your question about 12:08:31

16 chaperones, we think it's important to have a 12:08:32

17 chaperon available and monitoring, particularly when 12:08:36

18 there are underage athletes. 12:08:37

19 And, you know, that, you know -- depending 12:08:41

20 on how a group of individuals show up, it -- it may 12:08:43

21 or may not be their coach, it may or may not be 12:08:45

22 somebody else. 12:08:49

23 So, you have to be a little bit more 12:08:50

24 flexible on -- on how do you do the housing 12:08:52

25 arrangements. 12:08:54

Page 155
1 Q. In 2011, did the USOC require that an 12:08:54

2 athlete -- underage athlete have a chaperone 12:08:57

3 accompany him -- him or her when they stayed here 12:09:01

4 and trained here? 12:09:04

5 A. I don't know. I don't remember what it 12:09:07

6 was like in 2011. 12:09:08

7 You know, I showed up midway through the 12:09:11

8 year, so I don't -- I don't -- I just don't recall 12:09:13

9 whether there's an actual policy on those 12:09:15

10 arrangements, and -- and how that plays out on a 12:09:18

11 day-to-day basis. 12:09:20

12 Q. Who would know that in relation to, back 12:09:22

13 in the year 2011 -- late 2011, who would have been 12:09:25

14 in charge of determining whether or not a chaperone 12:09:28

15 was required for an underage athlete while training 12:09:33

16 at the USOC Olympic Training Centers? 12:09:38

17 A. It would have been either Mike English or 12:09:41

18 Glenn Warner Roseboom. 12:09:43

19 Q. All right. And do Glenn or Mike, do they 12:09:47

20 still work -- work with the USOC? 12:09:50

21 A. Mike has unfortunately passed away, and 12:09:52

22 Glenn is no longer -- no longer works at the USOC. 12:09:55

23 Q. Where is Glenn now, do you know? 12:09:58

24 A. I don't. 12:10:00

25 Q. Does -- does USOC currently have a policy 12:10:00

Page 156
1 requiring underage athletes to -- to be chaperoned 12:10:02

2 while at the Olympic Training Center? 12:10:05

3 A. It's certainly a practice. Whether it's a 12:10:09

4 written policy, I don't -- I don't think it's a 12:10:11

5 written policy, no. 12:10:13

6 Q. What do you mean it's certainly a 12:10:15

7 practice? 12:10:16

8 A. Exactly what I was saying, is that, you 12:10:16

9 know, when they're looking at how to arrange things, 12:10:18

10 they want to make sure that there are, you know, 12:10:21

11 individuals who are -- you don't want to leave a -- 12:10:25

12 like a floor of unsupervised minors, right? So, 12:10:28

13 it's important to kind of take a look at -- at that. 12:10:31

14 Q. Well, I know it's important to take a look 12:10:35

15 at it. Who's in charge of making sure you don't 12:10:37

16 have a floor of unsupervised minors? 12:10:39

17 A. The NGB. The NGB or whoever is submitting 12:10:40

18 it ahead of time. I mean, maybe it's an NGB, maybe 12:10:44

19 it's a club. I mean, there can be any number of 12:10:49

20 people who are utilizing -- 12:10:49

21 Q. But -- but the USOC owns the facility -- 12:10:50

22 the Olympic Training Center facility, right? 12:10:52

23 MS. HOLM: That's a "yes" or "no." 12:10:56

24 A. Yes. 12:10:57

25 Q. (By Mr. Estey) And it can regulate who 12:11:00

Page 157
1 comes to train at that facility, correct? 12:11:05

2 A. Correct. 12:11:09

3 Q. It can draft and implement rules for 12:11:10

4 anyone who wants to come there to train to follow, 12:11:16

5 right? 12:11:19

6 A. Yes. 12:11:21

7 Q. All right. And so did -- were there any 12:11:21

8 prohibitions back in 2011 that a coach could not 12:11:23

9 stay on the same floor across the hall from his 12:11:35

10 underage athlete? 12:11:40

11 MR. OKAMURA: Objection. Asked and 12:11:42

12 answered. 12:11:44

13 MS. HOLM: You can answer it again. 12:11:46

14 A. No. And that rule wouldn't have 12:11:47

15 necessarily made sense. 12:11:49

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Why not? 12:11:50

17 A. Because, again, if you leave your, you 12:11:51

18 know, underage athletes unsupervised, and let's say 12:11:56

19 something horrible happens and that unsupervised 12:12:01

20 17-year-old is sexually assaulted by some other 12:12:02

21 male, the question would be, why didn't you have a 12:12:08

22 chaperone there? Why didn't you at least have the 12:12:11

23 coach there? 12:12:15

24 So, there are a lot of different factors 12:12:15

25 you're going to take a look at. 12:12:17

Page 158
1 Q. Have you ever become aware of any rapes at 12:12:19

2 the Olympic Training Center facility? 12:12:21

3 A. No. 12:12:24

4 Q. Never? 12:12:24

5 A. I mean, again, the only -- depending on 12:12:25

6 how we're using the term. I mean, obviously, again, 12:12:27

7 going back to, I certainly learned of the sexual 12:12:30

8 interactions between Yazmin Brown when the Complaint 12:12:34

9 was published. 12:12:38

10 Q. Did -- did you ever become aware whether 12:12:39

11 the USOC had posted a guard in -- in front of the -- 12:12:40

12 the women's dorm? 12:12:44

13 A. No. 12:12:46

14 Q. Okay. Yeah, and as far as the rapes, that 12:12:48

15 question includes Lake Placid, Marquette and -- and 12:12:56

16 here in Colorado Springs. 12:12:57

17 MS. HOLM: Marquette's not a training 12:13:02

18 center at the time. 12:13:04

19 MR. LITTLE: They have a big sign out 12:13:06

20 front that says Olympic Training Center. 12:13:07

21 MS. HOLM: Well, they can have signs, I 12:13:11

22 suppose, but -- 12:13:11

23 MR. LITTLE: Your testimony -- your saying 12:13:11

24 that Marquette -- 12:13:11

25 MS. HOLM: What was the date that you're 12:13:12

Page 159
1 talking about? 12:13:14

2 MR. LITTLE: We're talking about from -- 12:13:15

3 from -- he said ever. Have you ever been aware of 12:13:15

4 any rapes at any of the Olympic Training Centers. 12:13:19

5 MS. HOLM: Well, let's just talk about 12:13:23

6 Marquette in terms of the date. 12:13:24

7 MR. LITTLE: Okay. 1980 -- from 1989 to 12:13:27

8 the present, in Marquette, Michigan, are you aware 12:13:28

9 of any rapes at the Olympic Training Center? 12:13:31

10 MS. HOLM: If you can answer the question. 12:13:34

11 A. Yeah. No. And the tricky piece with 12:13:37

12 Marquette is that it -- it, at some point, was not 12:13:42

13 owned or run or operated by the USOC around that 12:13:50

14 timeframe. And I just don't know -- I can't recall 12:13:57

15 what the date of transfer was. 12:14:01

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Have you ever heard of a 12:14:04

17 guy named Jean Lopez? 12:14:06

18 A. Yes. 12:14:09

19 Q. All right. And -- and -- and do you know 12:14:11

20 him? 12:14:13

21 A. No. 12:14:13

22 Q. And why have you heard of Jean Lopez? 12:14:15

23 A. The Lopezes, I think, as just -- I think 12:14:23

24 the Lopezes have been active in Taekwondo for 12:14:25

25 awhile, and I -- and I think there are -- there's 12:14:29

Page 160
1 more than one so the names just come up from time to 12:14:31

2 time. I can't, quite frankly, sitting here without 12:14:34

3 a little bit of help, recall or distinguish between 12:14:38

4 other Lopezes. 12:14:41

5 Q. Have you ever heard of any allegations of 12:14:43

6 sexual abuse between Lopez and -- and his athletes? 12:14:44

7 A. Again, I don't even know which one we're 12:14:48

8 talking about right now, so -- 12:14:51

9 Q. Jean. 12:14:52

10 MS. HOLM: Well, separate and apart from 12:14:54

11 anything you may have learned from any attorney. 12:14:56

12 A. I -- I'm just getting caught up on the 12:15:07

13 names. Like, I just don't remember the name. There 12:15:11

14 was an -- there was incident, I believe, in Russia. 12:15:13

15 I believe that allegedly involved a Lopez. 12:15:14

16 Q. (By Mr. Estey) When was that? 12:15:19

17 A. Late spring, early summer 2015. 12:15:23

18 Q. All right. And how were -- were -- were 12:15:27

19 you made aware of that? Who told you about that? 12:15:28

20 A. Somebody from Taekwondo contacted me sort 12:15:32

21 of or about the time that it happened. 12:15:32

22 Q. And what did they tell you? 12:15:40

23 A. They told -- 12:15:44

24 MS. HOLM: You know, the only thing that I 12:15:44

25 have to say about that is it has nothing to do with 12:15:45

Page 161
1 this case, and -- 12:15:47

2 MR. ESTEY: Right. 12:15:48

3 MS. HOLM: -- that individual is not a 12:15:49

4 Claimant here. 12:15:52

5 So, totally irrelevant and immaterial as 12:15:53

6 to what USAT had to say, and I'm going to instruct 12:15:56

7 her not to answer this question at this point 12:16:00

8 because it has -- unless you can lay a foundation 12:16:03

9 for me as to why it would be relevant to the issues 12:16:06

10 against USOC in this case. 12:16:11

11 Q. (By Mr. Estey) You -- you said it was 12:16:13

12 2015? 12:16:13

13 MS. HOLM: She said that. 12:16:15

14 A. Yeah, I believe so. 12:16:17

15 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. Well, I'll -- 12:16:18

16 I'll just go at it this way: You -- you don't know 12:16:18

17 about Mandy Meloon, right? 12:16:20

18 A. Correct. 12:16:23

19 Q. You -- you came in as the Director of 12:16:24

20 Ethics and SafeSport, is that right, in 2011? 12:16:30

21 A. Correct. 12:16:35

22 Q. All right. And did -- whoever hired you, 12:16:36

23 did they -- they tell you -- did they give you all 12:16:38

24 the information you -- you felt you needed to go 12:16:42

25 about your job? 12:16:44

Page 162
1 A. Yes. 12:16:47

2 Q. All right. Did anyone tell you that in 12:16:48

3 '07, an arbitrator in the matter of Mandy Meloon and 12:16:50

4 USA Taekwondo issued an opinion? 12:16:53

5 A. I don't recall that, no. 12:17:00

6 Q. Did anyone at USOC ever tell you that an 12:17:01

7 arbitrator had said to -- an opinion, said to USOC 12:17:04

8 in '07, "Ms. Meloon's core message went to the 12:17:11

9 protection of the young girls in the Olympic 12:17:17

10 movement who could be exposed to situations that are 12:17:20

11 inappropriate and potentially damaging"? 12:17:23

12 A. No. 12:17:26

13 Q. Did anyone at USOC, when they hired you, 12:17:27

14 tell you that an arbitrator had written that, "One 12:17:30

15 would hope that this message is not lost and young 12:17:33

16 children in the Olympic movement are properly 12:17:37

17 supervised, protected and educated"? 12:17:40

18 A. I don't recall that, no. 12:17:42

19 Q. Is this something you'd want to know when 12:17:45

20 you -- when you got hired by the USOC? 12:17:46

21 MS. HOLM: Objection. Calls for 12:17:50

22 speculation. Instruct her not to answer the 12:17:50

23 question as phrased. It's also argumentative. 12:17:53

24 MR. ESTEY: Okay. And what's the basis 12:17:55

25 for the objection? 12:17:57

Page 163
1 MS. HOLM: I gave you two of them; 12:17:58

2 speculation and argumentative. And I instructed her 12:17:59

3 not to answer. 12:18:02

4 MR. ESTEY: But that's not a grounds to 12:18:04

5 instruct her not to answer. 12:18:04

6 MS. HOLM: Oh, that's not true. The form 12:18:05

7 of the question, if it's argumentative, certainly 12:18:05

8 can be. 12:18:06

9 Q. (By Mr. Estey) All right. Did anyone at 12:18:08

10 USOC, when they hired you, tell you that an 12:18:09

11 arbitrator had told them in '07 that one would hope 12:18:12

12 that the USOC takes a serious look at the level of 12:18:16

13 social interaction between its coaches and athletes 12:18:20

14 and underage drinking by its athletes? 12:18:23

15 A. No. 12:18:27

16 Q. All right. Were you aware, and -- when 12:18:27

17 you were hired in 2011, that there was an issue of 12:18:27

18 underage drinking by its athletes? 12:18:31

19 A. No. 12:18:35

20 Q. Were you aware in 2011, when you took the 12:18:36

21 job, that there was an issue about the level of 12:18:39

22 social interaction between coaches and athletes? 12:18:44

23 A. No. 12:18:51

24 Q. All right. And then were you aware when 12:18:51

25 you were hired in -- in 2011 that this arbitrator 12:18:55

Page 164
1 told the USOC that one would hope that the 12:18:57

2 circumstances leading to the suspension of 12:19:01

3 Ms. Meloon will not reoccur in the life of another 12:19:03

4 young Olympic hopeful? 12:19:08

5 A. No. I mean, it appears that you're 12:19:10

6 obviously reading from something, and I -- I'm very 12:19:12

7 hesitant to continue asking questions -- or 12:19:15

8 answering questions about this unless we're having 12:19:15

9 the entire context of what was at issue, and, I 12:19:18

10 mean, I just -- the answer is no. 12:19:22

11 Q. Okay. 12:19:28

12 A. I would also like to see the document if 12:19:29

13 you're going to continue to read from it. 12:19:31

14 MS. HOLM: Well, I -- I -- I'm going to 12:19:33

15 suggest that we're going to go question by question. 12:19:34

16 Mr. Estey is clearly reading from a document, the 12:19:38

17 witness has already told him she has never read any 12:19:41

18 opinion regarding Ms. Meloon, or any of the 12:19:44

19 allegations involved there, and we can continue to 12:19:46

20 waste some time and ask questions about an opinion 12:19:47

21 that she's never read. 12:19:50

22 And you are taking some sentences out of 12:19:52

23 context with regard to what the allegations were. 12:19:55

24 But I'm not going to have her look at 12:19:58

25 something that she never saw before. 12:20:01

Page 165
1 MR. ESTEY: And those -- that's fine, but 12:20:03

2 I'm not asking her about this document. I'm asking 12:20:04

3 what was told to her -- 12:20:09

4 MS. HOLM: I understand that. 12:20:10

5 MR. ESTEY: -- at the time she was hired. 12:20:11

6 MS. HOLM: -- and I'm -- you're doing that 12:20:11

7 for a point, and that's your point. 12:20:11

8 Now, go ahead and do it. 12:20:15

9 MR. ESTEY: Okay. 12:20:18

10 MS. HOLM: The answer is going to be 12:20:20

11 either "yes" or "no." 12:20:20

12 THE WITNESS: Okay. 12:20:20

13 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Now -- so, you were 12:20:20

14 hired -- strike that. 12:20:22

15 Do you know if the USOC hired anyone 12:20:25

16 between the -- the dates of 2007 and 2011 to look at 12:20:29

17 the level of social interaction between its coaches 12:20:35

18 and athletes? 12:20:40

19 A. I don't know. 12:20:41

20 Q. Do you know if the USOC, between 2007 and 12:20:42

21 2011, hired anyone to look at the issue as to 12:20:44

22 whether or not its athletes were being properly 12:20:52

23 supervised, protected and educated? 12:20:54

24 A. I don't know. 12:20:57

25 Q. And do you know if between 2007 and 2011 12:20:58

Page 166
1 whether or not the USOC hired anyone to look at or 12:21:02

2 review situations involving coaches and athletes 12:21:09

3 that were inappropriate and potentially damaging? 12:21:18

4 A. I don't know. 12:21:25

5 MR. ESTEY: Let's take a break. I think 12:21:38

6 I'm getting close to being finished. 12:21:39

7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of 12:21:43

8 Media Unit 2 in the deposition of Malia Arrington. 12:21:43

9 We're off the record at 12:22 p.m. 12:21:45

10 (A recess was taken from 12:22 p.m. to 12:21:49

11 12:29 p.m.) 12:21:49

12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the beginning 12:29:03

13 of Media Unit 3 in the deposition of Malia 12:29:04

14 Arrington. We're back on the record at 12:29 p.m. 12:29:07

15 Q. (By Mr. Estey) Ma'am, you mentioned the 12:29:11

16 date of December 31st, 2013, was the date that all 12:29:13

17 NGBs were required to have some form of SafeSport 12:29:16

18 initiative in place, is that right? 12:29:18

19 A. Correct. 12:29:20

20 Q. And, then, to your understanding, does 12:29:20

21 USAT currently have some form of SafeSport policies 12:29:22

22 and procedures in place? 12:29:28

23 A. Yes. 12:29:29

24 Q. And that's as of December 31st, 2013? 12:29:29

25 A. They certify their compliance at that 12:29:36

Page 167
1 time, yes. 12:29:36

2 COURT REPORTER: Wait a minute. I didn't 12:29:36

3 get that. 12:29:36

4 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 12:29:36

5 MS. HOLM: As of December 31st, 2013. 12:29:36

6 Q. (By Mr. Estey) As -- you understand that 12:29:36

7 USAT had certified their compliance with that 12:29:37

8 requirement as of December 31st, 2013? 12:29:42

9 A. Yes. 12:29:45

10 Q. Okay. That's all I have. Thank you very 12:29:47

11 much for your time. 12:29:48

12 MR. LITTLE: I've got a few questions. 12:29:51

13 EXAMINATION 12:29:53

14 BY MR. LITTLE: 12:29:53

15 Q. Why is the SafeSport Center being located 12:29:54

16 in Denver? 12:29:57

17 A. You know, I think the Board of Directors 12:30:00

18 had a lot of different considerations, including -- 12:30:02

19 you know, to the extent that they anticipate that 12:30:05

20 the investigators will have to travel, they wanted 12:30:09

21 it to be centrally located, cost of living, you 12:30:10

22 know, sort of desirability and attract -- to attract 12:30:15

23 individuals, you know, while still giving them 12:30:20

24 some -- some distance between the USOC and the 12:30:22

25 Center. 12:30:28

Page 168
1 Q. Okay. You mentioned other funders. Who 12:30:29

2 are the other funders? You said NGBs, USOC and 12:30:32

3 other funders. 12:30:38

4 A. Yeah. So, I mean, it's -- I don't think 12:30:39

5 any of this is, you know, public at this point. The 12:30:39

6 NBA has committed monies, and, you know, we continue 12:30:42

7 conversations with them and other individuals. I'm 12:30:48

8 not sure I can really share much beyond that. I 12:30:49

9 mean, the fundraising efforts will continue. 12:30:53

10 MS. HOLM: And I'll instruct you don't 12:30:56

11 need to. It's immaterial and irrelevant to this 12:30:57

12 lawsuit. 12:30:58

13 Q. (By Mr. Little) Is -- is Bryan Cave a 12:30:59

14 funder of the SafeSport Center? 12:30:59

15 A. No. Oh -- 12:31:03

16 MS. HOLM: Okay. Give me a chance. 12:31:04

17 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 12:31:06

18 MS. HOLM: It's totally immaterial and 12:31:07

19 irrelevant to the subject matter of this lawsuit, 12:31:08

20 and I would instruct you not to answer the question, 12:31:10

21 but you already have. 12:31:13

22 MR. LITTLE: It goes to control as to what 12:31:15

23 the USOC can make the NGBs do or not do, including 12:31:16

24 contribute money to a SafeSport Center. 12:31:19

25 MS. HOLM: That's a situation that hasn't 12:31:22

Page 169
1 been totally set up yet. It's still in the process 12:31:24

2 of being established. It has nothing to do with the 12:31:24

3 what the USOC was doing during the timeframe that 12:31:28

4 you all are complaining about in this lawsuit. 12:31:32

5 MR. LITTLE: Okay. Well, we'll agree to 12:31:35

6 disagree for now. 12:31:37

7 MS. HOLM: That's okay. 12:31:39

8 Q. (By Mr. Little) You mentioned you'd have 12:31:41

9 to review documents to find out how much Taekwondo 12:31:42

10 would have to pay to support the SafeSport Center. 12:31:45

11 What documents would you have to review? 12:31:48

12 A. We at the USOC had suggested a strategy. 12:31:54

13 So, again, the NGB commitment is 12:31:59

14 $1.04 million a year, and the USOC doesn't -- 12:32:01

15 doesn't control how they determine what that looks 12:32:06

16 like, but ultimately -- sorry. 12:32:08

17 MS. HOLM: The -- the question was what 12:32:08

18 documents would you have to look at? 12:32:10

19 A. It's -- it's not like a formal document. 12:32:11

20 It's just sort of in my notes somewhere. Sorry. 12:32:13

21 MS. HOLM: That's okay. 12:32:17

22 Q. (By Mr. Little) You said something about 12:32:22

23 High Performance funding; if they -- if the NGBs 12:32:30

24 don't comply with -- with USOC directives or 12:32:34

25 mandates, you could take High Performance funding 12:32:39

Page 170
1 USOC could take High Performance Funding from the 12:32:43

2 N -- from the NGBs. 12:32:43

3 A. I recall mentioning High Performance 12:32:45

4 funding, yes. 12:32:47

5 Q. What is High Performance funding? 12:32:48

6 A. It is -- to the best of my knowledge, and 12:32:50

7 I'm not the person who has the most information 12:32:55

8 about this, but to the best of my knowledge, it's 12:32:58

9 funding that the USOC provides to Sport National 12:33:00

10 Governing Bodies to support their High Performance 12:33:02

11 athletes and programs. 12:33:09

12 Q. And then the NGBs can use that money to, 12:33:12

13 say, rent the Olympic Training Center? 12:33:17

14 A. I don't know. 12:33:20

15 Q. Who would be the person to ask about that, 12:33:21

16 if you know? 12:33:22

17 A. I'm not sure. 12:33:25

18 Q. Okay. You said Ran -- Rana Dershowitz? 12:33:27

19 Is that right? Ronda or Rana? 12:33:33

20 A. Rana. 12:33:37

21 Q. Rana. 12:33:38

22 Where -- where is she now? 12:33:38

23 A. Aspen. 12:33:39

24 Q. I mean, is -- is she involved in the 12:33:40

25 Olympic movement? 12:33:42

Page 171
1 A. No. 12:33:44

2 Q. Okay. Is she working at a law firm or -- 12:33:45

3 do you know? 12:33:47

4 A. I believe it's the Aspen Ski Company, or 12:33:48

5 whoever the owner is. 12:33:51

6 Q. Okay. You -- you mentioned a the name 12:33:55

7 Dave McCann as somebody you interviewed with. 12:33:57

8 A. Yes. 12:33:59

9 Q. Who -- how do you spell that? 12:34:00

10 A. M-c-C-A-N-N. 12:34:01

11 Q. Two Ns. 12:34:04

12 And who is he? 12:34:04

13 A. At the time, he was the Director of 12:34:06

14 Coaching Education. 12:34:09

15 Q. Has Richard Young ever been your attorney, 12:34:15

16 I mean -- I mean, in -- in terms of your -- 12:34:22

17 A. For the USOC? 12:34:25

18 Q. For you at -- yeah, first, for you 12:34:28

19 personally. 12:34:30

20 A. For me personally? No. 12:34:32

21 Q. Okay. In any litigation you've been 12:34:34

22 involved in, has Mr. -- Mr. Young been your 12:34:36

23 attorney? 12:34:39

24 A. I'm sorry. 12:34:40

25 Q. That was a bad question. 12:34:40

Page 172
1 A. When you say -- yeah. Sorry. 12:34:40

2 Q. Let me -- let me start again. 12:34:42

3 A. Yeah. 12:34:43

4 Q. Have you been involved in any litigation 12:34:43

5 where you believe Richard Young was your attorney 12:34:46

6 for the -- you know, as part of your job at USOC? 12:34:49

7 A. Yes. 12:34:58

8 Q. Okay. And which cases were those? Just 12:34:59

9 the names of the cases, not the communication. 12:35:01

10 A. The only one I can think of is the current 12:35:08

11 litigation. 12:35:10

12 Q. Okay. What's going to happen to all of 12:35:12

13 the individual NGBs SafeSport people once the 12:35:22

14 SafeSport Center opens? 12:35:26

15 MS. HOLM: Could you repeat that question, 12:35:30

16 please? 12:35:31

17 MR. LITTLE: Sure. 12:35:31

18 Q. (By Mr. Little) When the SafeSport Center 12:35:32

19 opens, it's my understanding that USOC, the Center, 12:35:33

20 will take control of the investigation of SafeSport 12:35:35

21 complaints. So, what happens to the Susan Westners 12:35:43

22 and the other people in the NGBs that handle these 12:35:44

23 claims currently? 12:35:50

24 MS. HOLM: Well -- 12:35:51

25 MR. LITTLE: And I'll say, it goes to 12:35:51

Page 173
1 control. I mean, the USOC has the ability to take 12:35:51

2 over this function. They're going to. 12:35:56

3 A. To -- to clarify, the USOC is not taking 12:35:58

4 over this function. 12:36:01

5 MS. HOLM: That's correct. 12:36:03

6 MR. LITTLE: Well -- 12:36:03

7 MS. HOLM: I'm going to instruct her not 12:36:03

8 to answer the question as phrased. It also calls 12:36:05

9 for a -- a little bit of speculation in the future 12:36:08

10 about a bunch of individuals that you named. 12:36:10

11 Q. (By Mr. Little) What is Richard Young's 12:36:12

12 role with the SafeSport Center? 12:36:14

13 A. Not entirely confident I understand the 12:36:20

14 question. 12:36:24

15 Q. What -- what does Richard Young -- what is 12:36:24

16 he doing with the SafeSport Center? Is he involved, 12:36:26

17 and what -- what's been his involvement with it? 12:36:28

18 A. He has -- well, actually, I don't think I 12:36:33

19 can -- I don't think I can share that without 12:36:36

20 disclosing attorney-client privileged information. 12:36:39

21 Q. Okay. You -- you mentioned a 2013 Working 12:36:42

22 Group. Who are the members of that Working -- is 12:36:45

23 that -- well, first of all, is that Working Group 12:36:51

24 still working? 12:36:54

25 A. No. 12:36:55

Page 174
1 Q. Okay. And who are the members of that 12:36:55

2 Working Group? 12:36:57

3 A. I would have chaired it, and then it would 12:37:03

4 have been Susan Westner, Casey Jorgansen, Margie 12:37:07

5 Mara, Margaret Holtzer, Mina Kemphill, Julie Novak, 12:37:14

6 Renee Jamison or Steve Penny. I can't recall which 12:37:34

7 one of them. I -- I recall Renee being in the room 12:37:39

8 more than anyone else. 12:37:42

9 I think that's it in terms of, you know, 12:37:45

10 non-USOC individuals. It's in the document 12:37:50

11 somewhere. It can be confirmed through the document 12:37:56

12 itself. 12:37:58

13 Q. I think you're right on Steve Penny. 12:37:59

14 Who's Casey Jorgenson? 12:37:59

15 A. He is counsel with USA Hockey. 12:38:03

16 Q. And Julie Novak? 12:38:06

17 A. She heads up child safety for Big Brothers 12:38:07

18 Big Sisters. 12:38:11

19 Q. Is Ross Wales involved with the SafeSport 12:38:17

20 Center? 12:38:24

21 A. No. 12:38:26

22 Q. Was he involved with the 2013 Working 12:38:27

23 Group? 12:38:30

24 A. No. I don't even know that name. 12:38:31

25 Q. Okay. Renee Jamison, who is she or he? 12:38:33

Page 175
1 A. She works at USA Gymnastics. 12:38:36

2 Q. It's ironic two USA Gymnastics people are 12:38:39

3 on this committee. 12:38:43

4 Did you attend the Olympics games in 12:38:52

5 London? 12:38:53

6 A. No. 12:38:55

7 Q. In Sochi? 12:38:56

8 A. No. 12:38:57

9 Q. In Rio? 12:38:58

10 A. No. 12:38:59

11 Q. You mentioned consulting with experts. 12:39:08

12 You mentioned Cecelia Brackenridge. Was she 12:39:11

13 retained by the USOC? 12:39:15

14 A. Celia Brackenridge, and no. 12:39:17

15 Q. Okay. Did you work with Victor Vief? 12:39:19

16 A. No. 12:39:22

17 Q. Anybody at the Gunderson Center? 12:39:23

18 A. We have worked with individuals who have 12:39:25

19 been associated with that. I can't recall whether 12:39:30

20 they were at the time. It would have included 12:39:33

21 Stephanie Smith as a presenter at our SafeSport 12:39:35

22 Summit. 12:39:39

23 Q. Who else have you worked with as experts 12:39:40

24 in SafeSport? 12:39:43

25 A. So, Stephanie Smith. You know, we've -- 12:39:45

Page 176
1 Celia Brackenridge, Kari Fasting, Sandra Kirby, Anna 12:39:50

2 Salter, Darkness to Light, people at the Non-Profit 12:39:56

3 Risk Management Center, people from the Title 9 12:40:03

4 Space. 12:40:06

5 Q. Let's back up to the Non-Profit Risk 12:40:07

6 Management Center. What -- what was their 12:40:10

7 involvement in SafeSport? 12:40:12

8 A. We did a year-long public awareness 12:40:13

9 campaign to prevent child sexual abuse in sport. 12:40:18

10 That included a series of webinars. So, monthly 12:40:22

11 webinars and monthly newsletters. 12:40:28

12 Q. Um-hum. 12:40:31

13 A. And then, again, that culminated in the 12:40:31

14 SafeSport Summit. And so they would have been 12:40:34

15 involved in things like screening practices. 12:40:40

16 Q. Where are they based out of? 12:40:46

17 A. I don't -- I don't know. 12:40:47

18 Q. Who did you work with at the Non-Profit 12:40:48

19 Risk Management Center? 12:40:51

20 A. I can't remember her name. I can see her 12:40:53

21 face, I just can't remember her name right now. 12:40:56

22 Q. If I wanted to get your communication with 12:40:56

23 the Non-Profit Risk Management Center, is that 12:40:56

24 something you could produce to your attorneys? 12:41:00

25 A. If -- if I have any, yeah. 12:41:03

Page 177
1 Q. Okay. 12:41:09

2 A. Yeah. 12:41:12

3 Q. You mentioned disclosures to Olympic 12:41:12

4 Training Centers about who's using the training 12:41:14

5 centers. Do you remember talking about this 12:41:19

6 earlier? 12:41:21

7 A. I'm sorry. I don't. 12:41:22

8 MR. LITTLE: At about 9:40 a.m., she 12:41:23

9 mentioned that. Is there any way we can go back and 12:41:25

10 look what she said exactly? 12:41:27

11 MS. HOLM: I think you're talking about 12:41:31

12 the time when -- 12:41:31

13 MR. LITTLE: It was right after -- 12:41:33

14 MS. HOLM: -- the NGB -- or whoever the 12:41:33

15 club member or -- or the NGB was would make 12:41:35

16 disclosures about -- 12:41:37

17 A. Oh, the OTC -- the OTC Access Policy? 12:41:40

18 Q. (By Mr. Little) Yeah. Yeah. 12:41:42

19 A. Okay. 12:41:42

20 Q. It was in reference to the OTC Access 12:41:42

21 Policy. It was right after you talked about Celia 12:41:44

22 Brackenridge. 12:41:46

23 A. Okay. 12:41:48

24 Q. You mentioned that they have to make 12:41:49

25 disclosures when they use the Olympic Training 12:41:50

Page 178
1 Center. Do you recall talking about this? 12:41:54

2 A. Yeah. So, what it is is if they're going 12:41:55

3 to ask that a particular individual reside or train 12:41:58

4 at one of the Olympic Training Centers, the NGBs 12:42:02

5 need to disclose, you know, anything if it 12:42:05

6 involves -- if -- if one of those individuals has a 12:42:08

7 criminal record or has gage -- engaged in other 12:42:11

8 behaviors that would warrant concern about them 12:42:14

9 being on campus. 12:42:19

10 Q. And those disclosures are written, I 12:42:20

11 presume. 12:42:24

12 A. No, not necessarily. 12:42:24

13 Q. How are they made? 12:42:27

14 A. The NGB would indicate that they would 12:42:29

15 want to give somebody access. They -- they could 12:42:32

16 be, you know, picking up the phone and making a 12:42:34

17 phone call and having that conversation. They -- 12:42:37

18 they could also be in writing. 12:42:39

19 Q. Who do they call? 12:42:41

20 A. It, I'm sure, depends on who they have the 12:42:42

21 strongest relationship within the USOC. 12:42:45

22 Q. There is no centralized repository of 12:42:48

23 these disclosures? 12:42:48

24 A. No. I mean, I -- I guess I'm not -- I'm 12:42:55

25 not sure I'm understanding the question. 12:42:58

Page 179
1 So, my point is, they need to disclose. 12:43:00

2 They -- you know, each NGB has a different 12:43:03

3 relationship with a different person. The point is 12:43:06

4 that they get the information to us. 12:43:08

5 It's not -- I mean, it's not like there 12:43:09

6 isn't like a place that we would, you know, document 12:43:13

7 anything that we did. 12:43:15

8 Q. Well, if I want to know the disclosures 12:43:16

9 that were made about Mark Gitelman, how would I get 12:43:19

10 those? 12:43:23

11 MS. HOLM: If you know. 12:43:24

12 A. I -- I feel like there's an assumption in 12:43:26

13 your question that is not necessarily accurate. 12:43:32

14 Q. (By Mr. Little) What is that? 12:43:34

15 A. I think you're assumption is that there 12:43:35

16 were disclosures made about Mark Gitelman to the 12:43:38

17 USOC. To the best of my knowledge, that's not an 12:43:41

18 accurate assumption. 12:43:44

19 Q. Was -- was USA Taekwondo, in 2009 or 2011, 12:43:46

20 required to make such disclosures? 12:43:49

21 MS. HOLM: Well, about what? 12:43:53

22 MR. LITTLE: About -- she said that it's 12:43:54

23 part of the policy you have to make these 12:43:55

24 disclosures about who's using the training center, 12:43:58

25 criminal records and such, so I'm asking did -- was 12:44:00

Page 180
1 it required in 2009, question mark? Was it required 12:44:03

2 in 2011, question mark? Because there should be 12:44:06

3 some for Mr. Gitelman, I presume. 12:44:07

4 MS. HOLM: Well, you're asking -- you -- 12:44:11

5 you want to know, generally, if it was required in 12:44:12

6 2009 as well as 2011, that a disclosure be made if 12:44:17

7 somebody has a criminal background known to the NGB 12:44:21

8 or the club, whoever, to the USOC. 12:44:25

9 MR. LITTLE: Correct. To use the training 12:44:29

10 center. 12:44:29

11 MS. HOLM: Okay. That's just a general 12:44:31

12 question. Was that supposed to be done? 12:44:33

13 A. Beginning in 2011. 12:44:36

14 Q. (By Mr. Little) So, beginning when in 12:44:39

15 2011? 12:44:41

16 A. I think it would have been October or 12:44:45

17 November, give or take. 12:44:50

18 Q. Okay. 12:44:52

19 A. I know it was 2011. I'm not sure when. 12:44:52

20 Q. So, if I wanted to get the disclosure from 12:44:55

21 November 2011 for Mark Gitelman, where would I -- 12:44:58

22 where would I get that from? 12:45:02

23 A. Again, you're -- 12:45:04

24 MS. HOLM: You're assuming a fact that may 12:45:04

25 not be in evidence, ever, that there was any such 12:45:06

Page 181
1 thing as a disclosure as to Mark Gitelman. 12:45:09

2 MR. OKAMURA: I join in that objection. 12:45:12

3 MR. LITTLE: Well, she just said that 12:45:14

4 October 2011, and our allegation was that they used 12:45:15

5 the Olympic Training Center for the Rocky Mountain 12:45:17

6 Open in November 2011, one month after it was 12:45:19

7 required in October 2011. 12:45:22

8 MS. HOLM: Well, I appreciate that, but 12:45:24

9 you're saying -- you're asking, basically, if there 12:45:26

10 were a disclosure as to Mark Gitelman back in 2011, 12:45:27

11 where, if anywhere, would that disclosure be found? 12:45:31

12 MR. LITTLE: I'm trying -- I'm trying to 12:45:35

13 write the discovery request -- 12:45:36

14 MS. HOLM: Is that what your question is? 12:45:37

15 MR. LITTLE: -- that I'm going to send to 12:45:37

16 you, so I wanted to make it as easy as possible. 12:45:38

17 MS. HOLM: Well, I think I understand what 12:45:42

18 your position is, but you're assuming a whole bunch 12:45:43

19 of stuff. 12:45:44

20 But you want to know, have there -- if 12:45:44

21 there were a disclosure back in 2011 about Mark 12:45:44

22 Gitelman, just hypothetically, where would that be, 12:45:51

23 if anywhere, at this point? 12:45:54

24 MR. LITTLE: Correct. That is exactly my 12:45:57

25 question. 12:45:59

Page 182
1 A. I would be aware of any disclosures made 12:45:59

2 under the OTC Access Policy. 12:46:02

3 Q. (By Mr. Little) So, if I asked you to 12:46:04

4 produce whatever you -- whatever disclosure made 12:46:07

5 about Mark Gitelman, that's something you can 12:46:07

6 produce to -- to Ms. -- Ms. Holm? 12:46:10

7 MS. HOLM: The question is argumentative 12:46:11

8 as phrased. You're assuming there was a disclosure 12:46:13

9 made. But if there were -- 12:46:16

10 MR. LITTLE: She's already answered there 12:46:16

11 weren't any. 12:46:16

12 MS. HOLM: Well -- 12:46:19

13 A. I did -- I -- I -- 12:46:19

14 MS. HOLM: That's not your question. 12:46:19

15 MR. LITTLE: All right. Well -- 12:46:21

16 MS. HOLM: Do you want to ask that 12:46:21

17 question? 12:46:22

18 MR. LITTLE: No. I'm going to just send 12:46:22

19 the discovery request and see what comes back out of 12:46:24

20 that. 12:46:26

21 Q. (By Mr. Little) Where is John Ruger 12:46:27

22 today, if you know? 12:46:27

23 A. He is with USA Beach Volleyball somewhere 12:46:32

24 in California. 12:46:37

25 Q. Why did he, if you know, leave his role as 12:46:40

Page 183
1 Ombudsman? 12:46:43

2 A. I don't know. 12:46:45

3 Q. Okay. When did he leave his role as 12:46:45

4 Ombudsman? 12:46:47

5 A. I -- I don't recall. I mean, it's been 12:46:57

6 within the last two years, I believe. 12:46:58

7 Q. Who took over his role as Ombudsman? 12:47:13

8 A. Kasey Wallace. 12:47:16

9 Q. Kasey Wallace? 12:47:17

10 A. Correct. 12:47:19

11 Q. With a K or with a C? 12:47:19

12 A. With a K. 12:47:23

13 Q. Okay. All right. And after October of 12:47:24

14 2013, did you know if Mr. Gitelman was still 12:47:45

15 coaching at his Taekwondo studio in Nevada? 12:47:48

16 A. I did not. It was my understanding that 12:47:51

17 he had been suspended. 12:47:54

18 Q. Okay. And -- and -- and, to you, that 12:47:55

19 meant that he was suspended from coaching in Tae- -- 12:47:56

20 USA Taekwondo period? 12:47:58

21 A. He would have been suspended as to -- I 12:48:01

22 can't speak to the employment because -- piece 12:48:03

23 because the employment piece would have been 12:48:04

24 controlled by whatever local club or association 12:48:08

25 employed him, but my understanding would have been 12:48:11

Page 184
1 that he would not have been permitted to participate 12:48:14

2 in anything that was sort of USA Taekwondo. 12:48:19

3 Q. Including coaching in his club -- his USA 12:48:25

4 Taekwondo club? 12:48:28

5 A. I don't know what the legal relationship 12:48:31

6 is between USA Taekwondo and its local club, right? 12:48:32

7 Again, that's -- that's the -- the difference 12:48:36

8 between employment. 12:48:36

9 If -- if the USA Tae- -- Taekwondo can 12:48:37

10 affect membership, that doesn't mean that they can 12:48:38

11 simultaneously suspend employment if he's not their 12:48:43

12 employee. 12:48:46

13 Q. So, it's -- it's -- it's your testimony, 12:48:47

14 if I -- if I understand correctly, that somebody 12:48:48

15 could be suspended from coaching in an NGB, yet 12:48:48

16 still coach in their local club? 12:48:53

17 A. If their local club is the employer, and 12:48:54

18 the local club that chooses not to take action 12:48:58

19 consistent with what the NGB is requesting, it is 12:49:01

20 possible. 12:49:04

21 Q. And -- and that's permitted under the USOC 12:49:05

22 Minimum Standards -- Minimum Safe -- what are they 12:49:08

23 called; the things that they have to certify 12:49:11

24 compliance with? 12:49:12

25 A. It's -- it's permitted under employment 12:49:13

Page 185
1 law. 12:49:15

2 Q. Okay. Is it permitted under the 12:49:17

3 minimum -- what are these minimum standards that you 12:49:20

4 had to certify compliance with in 2013? What are 12:49:24

5 they called again? 12:49:27

6 A. I believe it is Minimum -- it's Athlete -- 12:49:29

7 I don't remember which -- I don't remember if 12:49:33

8 Minimum Standards comes first or the Athlete Safety 12:49:34

9 Policy comes first, but it's ultimately about 12:49:37

10 Minimum Standards for Athlete Safety Policies. 12:49:41

11 Q. Okay. And that permits a coach who is 12:49:45

12 suspended to -- the USOC would permit a coach 12:49:48

13 suspended by an NGB to be -- to continue coaching in 12:49:51

14 their local clubs, is that right? 12:49:51

15 A. The USOC has no authority, in any way, 12:49:54

16 shape or form, to WHAT effect membership, to enforce 12:49:56

17 membership disciplinary actions, and employment law 12:50:01

18 permits whoever the employer is to take whatever 12:50:07

19 employment action they want to or need to take. 12:50:11

20 It's -- it's always the case that the 12:50:14

21 employer is the one who effects employment. 12:50:15

22 Q. So -- so, the answer to my question then, 12:50:17

23 the USOC would permit -- the USOC permits a 12:50:21

24 suspended coach -- a coach suspended by an NGB, to 12:50:25

25 continue coaching in his club, is that -- is that 12:50:29

Page 186
1 right? 12:50:30

2 A. You're -- 12:50:32

3 MR. OKAMURA: Objection. Asked -- 12:50:32

4 MS. HOLM: That's not at all what she 12:50:33

5 said. It misstates her testimony. She answered 12:50:34

6 your question. 12:50:37

7 Q. (By Mr. Little) Well, let me put it this 12:50:38

8 way: Yes or no. If a coach appears on a U -- on an 12:50:39

9 NGBs pay -- is suspended by an NGB -- strike that. 12:50:40

10 Start again. 12:50:43

11 If a coach is suspended by an NGB, and the 12:50:46

12 USOC knows that coach is still coaching at their 12:50:48

13 local club, the USOC will not take any action 12:50:52

14 against that to -- to ensure that that coach doesn't 12:50:58

15 coach at that club. Is that what you're saying? 12:51:00

16 A. The USOC does not have the authority to do 12:51:01

17 so. 12:51:04

18 Q. Based on -- is -- is -- is that from the 12:51:05

19 Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act that you draw that 12:51:08

20 conclusion? 12:51:12

21 A. It's based on the fact that these are 12:51:14

22 independent organizations. And from an enforcement 12:51:16

23 perspective, the only -- the only organization that 12:51:23

24 can enforce a membership suspension is the NGB. And 12:51:26

25 the only organization that can effect employment is 12:51:32

Page 187
1 the organization that employs that individual. 12:51:36

2 So, your questions contain an assumption 12:51:41

3 that isn't accurate. 12:51:42

4 Q. So, really, the USOC SafeSport policy is 12:51:45

5 pretty -- it has no enforcement mechanism, is that 12:51:49

6 correct? 12:51:51

7 MS. HOLM: It's argumentative as phrased. 12:51:53

8 Misstates the testimony. 12:51:56

9 If you want to answer the question again, 12:51:58

10 you can go ahead. 12:51:59

11 Q. (By Mr. Little) Actually, let me ask a 12:52:00

12 better question. 12:52:02

13 What can the USOC do to enforce the 12:52:03

14 suspension of coaches for sexual abuse? 12:52:07

15 A. The USOC cannot enforce a suspension of 12:52:09

16 coaches. What they can do under the minimum 12:52:12

17 standards is take action vis-a-vis funding, or the 12:52:15

18 recognition of a member in good standing. 12:52:18

19 Q. Okay. And what action did they take 12:52:21

20 against Mark Gitelman? 12:52:23

21 A. The USOC does not have the authority to 12:52:25

22 take any action vis-a-vis Mark Gitelman. 12:52:28

23 Q. What action did they take against 12:52:30

24 Taekwondo to enforce SafeSport, if any? 12:52:32

25 MS. HOLM: Well, it's argumentative as 12:52:37

Page 188
1 phrased. Assumes they would take some action 12:52:38

2 against USAT. 12:52:42

3 If you can answer the question as phrased. 12:52:44

4 MR. LITTLE: We'll move on. 12:52:45

5 Q. (By Mr. Little) Who produced your 12:52:46

6 SafeSport videos that are on your website? On the 12:52:47

7 team USA.org and on the SafeSport website? 12:52:51

8 A. Help me understand your question a little 12:52:52

9 bit more. Do you mean in terms of, like, who did 12:52:59

10 the video production, or who did content 12:53:02

11 development,or like what -- what are you asking? 12:53:02

12 Q. I want to get -- I want to get them with 12:53:06

13 the outtakes, and I'm trying to figure out where to 12:53:07

14 send the production request. 12:53:10

15 So, did you produce them in-house? Like, 12:53:11

16 did you film them in-house? 12:53:14

17 MS. HOLM: So, you want the outtakes from 12:53:19

18 the -- that's going to be a request. The outtakes 12:53:21

19 from -- 12:53:23

20 MR. LITTLE: The outtakes -- 12:53:25

21 MS. HOLM: -- the videos. 12:53:26

22 MR. LITTLE: Right. And the videos 12:53:26

23 themselves that are -- you know, besides the ones 12:53:26

24 that are on the website. They've -- they've taken 12:53:28

25 some up and down over the years. 12:53:30

Page 189
1 A. We have those videos. I mean, we have -- 12:53:33

2 we own that material. 12:53:34

3 Q. (By Mr. Little) Okay. And who did you 12:53:36

4 consult with in -- in preparing and making the 12:53:39

5 90-min SafeSport training? Any experts? 12:53:43

6 A. Yeah. I mean, it's going to go -- I mean, 12:53:46

7 any of the materials that we utilized goes back to 12:53:48

8 the individuals I've previously identified. 12:53:51

9 There -- there may have been others. 12:53:52

10 Q. Okay. If I wanted a list of those people 12:53:55

11 that you consulted with, is that something you can 12:53:57

12 put together and get to your lawyers? 12:54:00

13 A. Yes. 12:54:04

14 Q. Okay. Did you ever consult in the 12:54:06

15 SafeSport context with Dale Neuberger? 12:54:21

16 A. I don't recognize that name, no. 12:54:25

17 Q. In the context of USA Bobsled? 12:54:26

18 A. I don't recognize that name. 12:54:30

19 Q. TSE Sports Consulting? 12:54:32

20 A. I don't know that name. 12:54:35

21 Q. That's all I have. Thank you. 12:54:40

22 EXAMINATION 12:54:40

23 BY MR. TUREK: 12:54:40

24 Q. Good afternoon. I'm Ken Turek. I 12:54:54

25 represent Kendra Gatt, and I have just about five 12:54:57

Page 190
1 minutes of questions. 12:55:00

2 The first series of questions I have deal 12:55:02

3 with something that I think you addressed this 12:55:05

4 morning, and I apologize, I was out of the room, so 12:55:07

5 I might get an objection from your talented lawyers, 12:55:10

6 but -- and that's to deal with grooming. And I 12:55:13

7 wanted to know what your background or 12:55:15

8 understanding, education of grooming is in the 12:55:17

9 pedophile area, sexual abuse area. 12:55:21

10 MS. HOLM: Well, I am going to object. 12:55:25

11 That was asked and answered at great length at the 12:55:25

12 beginning. 12:55:29

13 Q. (By Mr. Turek) Okay. Can I get a 12:55:29

14 thumbnail sketch of it, please? 12:55:31

15 A. Sure. You know, my understanding is that 12:55:35

16 it is essentially the process an individual will use 12:55:40

17 to ultimately gain a victim's trust, sort of make 12:55:43

18 them feel special, ultimately sexualize the 12:55:51

19 relationship, and, you know, maintain the secrete, 12:55:57

20 sort of roughly speaking. 12:55:59

21 Q. And I don't know if you applied it this 12:56:05

22 morning, but do you understand that that process can 12:56:07

23 apply to parents as well? 12:56:10

24 A. Yes. 12:56:12

25 Q. Can you explain that to me? 12:56:12

Page 191
1 A. Perpetrators will frequently groom the 12:56:15

2 parents and the community for a variety of reasons, 12:56:18

3 you know, not the least of which is because they 12:56:23

4 know that parents control the access to their 12:56:26

5 children. 12:56:30

6 Q. Could you turn, if you would, please, to 12:56:31

7 Exhibit 2 and Page 14. That's the Working Group 12:56:33

8 document. 12:56:39

9 There it is. 12:56:39

10 A. Page 14? 12:56:41

11 Q. Page 14. 12:56:42

12 A. Okay. 12:56:43

13 Q. There's an outline here for parents' 12:56:45

14 training and education, do you see that? 12:56:48

15 A. I do. 12:56:50

16 Q. Do you -- can you just give me a brief 12:56:51

17 outline of what SafeSport does to train parents? 12:56:53

18 A. Yeah. SafeSport has an online training 12:56:58

19 specifically provided for parents that walks through 12:56:59

20 all forms of misconduct. 12:57:05

21 It also has, you know, resources -- like 12:57:07

22 written resources on the website for parents around 12:57:11

23 tips and frequently asked questions and things that 12:57:14

24 they can ask their club to determine whether or not 12:57:18

25 that club has safety procedures in place. 12:57:20

Page 192
1 Q. Okay. And does that touch on the grooming 12:57:23

2 aspect of what to look for, or -- 12:57:26

3 A. I believe it does, yes. 12:57:29

4 Q. Okay. And were you part of the group that 12:57:31

5 put that together? 12:57:33

6 A. I was, yes. 12:57:35

7 Q. Do you know if the four different areas 12:57:37

8 that are addressed here on Page 14 are addressed in 12:57:39

9 that online outline that you just described -- or, 12:57:42

10 pardon me. Do you know if those four procedures -- 12:57:48

11 let me start again. 12:57:52

12 A. Sure. 12:57:54

13 Q. Do you know if the four areas that are 12:57:55

14 outlined on Page 14 under parents' training and 12:57:56

15 education are addressed in those online videos or 12:57:59

16 materials that you just described? 12:58:05

17 A. If -- if it it's not in the online 12:58:17

18 training, certainly the first three are available 12:58:18

19 through written resources for parents, and then some 12:58:20

20 methods in sort of the last one that will sort of 12:58:25

21 help parents and athletes communicate about this 12:58:31

22 issue. 12:58:34

23 Q. Do you -- do you know when those 12:58:35

24 materials, in general, became available to parents? 12:58:37

25 Were -- were made available to parents? 12:58:39

Page 193
1 A. Yeah. I mean, the written piece would 12:58:41

2 have been available in 2012. The online education 12:58:43

3 came a little bit later. 12:58:50

4 We had some parents who were taking the 12:58:52

5 90-minute training. It's just a different version 12:58:54

6 of it. 12:58:56

7 Q. And -- and what -- what's the timeframe 12:58:58

8 for that you just described? 12:58:59

9 A. So, the first online training was 2012, 12:59:01

10 and then the parent specific one, which we were sort 12:59:04

11 of responding to the fact that the parents didn't 12:59:08

12 seem to be taking these materials and that they 12:59:10

13 wanted something shorter -- I -- I just don't 12:59:14

14 remember when it rolled out but it was -- it was 12:59:16

15 after 2012. 12:59:19

16 Q. Okay. But the earliest time that 12:59:21

17 materials were made available to parents was 2012? 12:59:22

18 Is that a fair statement? 12:59:25

19 A. Through SafeSport.org. That would have 12:59:27

20 been the first time that it was available through 12:59:30

21 SafeSport. 12:59:32

22 Q. Are you aware of any other times where the 12:59:33

23 USOC made those types of materials available to 12:59:34

24 parents? 12:59:38

25 A. I'm not. 12:59:38

Page 194
1 Q. That's all I have. Thank you. 12:59:39

2 MR. ESTEY: Opposing counsel, do you have 12:59:41

3 any questions? 12:59:41

4 MS. HOLM: I have about an hour. 12:59:46

5 MR. ESTEY: What? 12:59:48

6 MS. HOLM: I'm just joking. 12:59:48

7 COURT REPORTER: Can I get all your orders 12:59:48

8 on the record before we go off? 12:59:48

9 MR. ESTEY: What's that? 12:59:55

10 COURT REPORTER: Can I get all of you 12:59:55

11 guys' orders -- 12:59:55

12 MR. ESTEY: Yes. I -- I need an order. 12:59:55

13 I need a video. I need a transcript. I 12:59:57

14 need a video synced with trial director, if 01:00:03

15 possible. I need a condensed, and whachamacallit? 01:00:06

16 A chronic copy too. 01:00:11

17 MR. LITTLE: I'm good. 01:00:14

18 MS. HOLM: I'd like copies of all the 01:00:14

19 same. 01:00:16

20 MR. OKAMURA: Same. 01:00:17

21 MS. HOLM: And I think we probably need a 01:00:19

22 stipulation. 01:00:21

23 MR. ESTEY: I propose the following 01:00:22

24 stipulation to -- you guys don't uphold your duties 01:00:22

25 right here, but we'll have the -- the transcript 01:00:24

Page 195
1 sent direct to Ms. Holm's office, and make sure 01:00:26

2 she -- the deponent reads it and signs under penalty 01:00:30

3 of perjury, and makes any changes she feels are 01:00:32

4 necessary. 01:00:36

5 And how long do you need to do that? 30 01:00:36

6 days? 01:00:40

7 THE WITNESS: Sure. 01:00:45

8 MR. ESTEY: Okay. 01:00:46

9 MR. LITTLE: Thirty days from the date you 01:00:46

10 get it. 01:00:47

11 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's 01:00:48

12 fine. 01:00:49

13 MR. ESTEY: And then if you can notify us 01:00:49

14 within 15 days thereafter, letting me know of the 01:00:51

15 fact that she signed it and of the changes made. 01:00:52

16 You can maintain custody of the original, 01:00:54

17 make it available upon reasonable request. 01:00:56

18 If, for some reason, the original's not 01:00:58

19 available or unsigned for whatever reason, then an 01:01:00

20 unsigned certified copy can be used for any purpose 01:01:03

21 in lieu thereof. 01:01:07

22 MS. HOLM: So stipulated. 01:01:08

23 MR. OKAMURA: So stipulated. 01:01:09

24 MR. ESTEY: Good. What do you want to 01:01:11

25 do -- we're off the record now. 01:01:11

Page 196
1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I actually have to go 01:01:13

2 off. Sorry. 01:01:14

3 MR. ESTEY: Oh, sorry. 01:01:16

4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of 01:01:16

5 Media Unit 3 in the deposition of Malia Arrington. 01:01:17

6 We're off the record at 1:02 p.m. 01:01:18

7 (WHEREUPON, the within proceedings were 01:01:22

8 concluded at the approximate hour of 1:02 p.m. on 01:01:22

9 the 27th day of September, 2016.) 01:01:22

10 / 06:23:20

11 06:23:20

12 06:23:20

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 197
1 I, MALIA ARRINGTON, hereby certify that I 10:58:11

2 have read the foregoing transcript and that the same 10:58:11

3 and accompanying corrections sheets, if any, 10:58:11

4 constitute a true and complete record of my 10:58:11

5 testimony. 10:58:11

6 I have ( ) have not ( ) made corrections 10:58:11

7 on the attached correction sheet. 10:58:11

8 10:58:11

9 10:58:11

10 10:58:11

________________________________
11 MALIA ARRINGTON 10:58:11

12 10:58:11

13 Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10:58:11

14 _______ day of _______________, 2016. 10:58:11

15 My Commission expires ____________________ 10:58:11

16 10:58:11

17 10:58:11

________________________________
18 Notary Public 10:58:11

19 10:58:11

20 Address: ________________________________ 10:58:11

21 10:58:11

________________________________
22 10:58:11

23

24

25

Page 198
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 10:58:11

2 10:58:11

3 STATE OF COLORADO ) 10:58:11

)
4 COUNTY OF EL PASO ) 10:58:11

5 I, KAREN J. HATHCOCK, a Registered Merit 10:58:11

6 Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter and 10:58:11

7 Notary Public, State of Colorado, do hereby certify: 10:58:11

8 That the foregoing proceedings were taken 10:58:11

9 before me at the time and place herein set forth; 10:58:11

10 that any witnesses in the foregoing proceedings, 10:58:11

11 prior to testifying, were place under oath; that a 10:58:11

12 verbatim record of the proceedings was made by me 10:58:11

13 using machine shorthand which was thereafter 10:58:11

14 transcribed under my direction; further, that the 10:58:11

15 foregoing is an accurate transcription thereof. 10:58:11

16 10:58:11

17 10:58:11

18 Dated: This 10th day of October, 2016, at Colorado 10:58:11

19 Springs, Colorado. 10:58:11

20 10:58:11

21 10:58:11

22 _________________________________ 10:58:11

Karen J. Hathcock
23 006677 10:58:11

24

25
Page 200

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