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Tone

Repeat this again so dont screw it

up

So uh come here..

Im in your cube but theres film crew in the way laughs

Im want to make sure that Tara know it and Weinsteins gonna open bug on it

--

so say the whole thing again

The Netscape CVG files the lock files they rely on the ND5 hash We dont have
4osI-
ND5has anymore So Jeff is gonna put hack in so that we dont bail when we

dont have lock file and we need to file bug so we can fix the
actually thing

right in the next couple of days

In other words some of the security code goes urn is basically effecting things

that dont effect normal security right Its the lock files So once we really pull

security weve got to figure out way around this Did Jeff tell you about this

TH

Well have nice day

Well when he touches pref API dot thats why

Yeah

OK other question for You uh Moz medium versus Moz light Are we bothering

to build Moz light anymore on UNIX and windows

phone response

On what on UNIX youre fading on me..

On UNIX we still build Moz light because Moz Medium is broken

All right once we got to Moz Medium on Mac its kind of an all or nothing thing

were going to break Moz light Does care

anybody

TH Wecare

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You care

No she doesnt care..

OK so this is probably gonna happen tomorrow because Paul is not going to

get

Moz Medium done in fact he took off while ago because hes pretty faced OK

Cathys here pulling the tree shes trying to all the editor files in the main
get

project Shes gonna have to sync with Gordon tonight All right Im gonna make

sure Im gonna stick around and make sum that that happens Tara how are you

holding up

All right

Were going to buy her tequila

Like she needs some mom

laughter Even though we didnt do anything wrong were still going to buy her

tequila

All right well weve got south park marathon going on up here in the swamp if

youre interested Um OK we Cathy is also going to try to tackle the rest of the

security stuff on Mac tomorrow OK and Scott may or may not be going in with

whole thing tonight so it looks like weve got lot of stuff hanging out tomorrow

Til OK

On the good side as near as can tell were over third done on the signing Is

that the way you mad the hostage list as well

TH Actually havent looked at it

recently Uh cause ..theres been some fairly busy

people on that

Yeah so it looks like lot of the owners have not changed though Like when

people went and checked in for other people they didnt change the owners

TH Oh fuck well..

So weve got problem tracking who really owns it cause know lot of names

on there were mail and news people and uh theyre just uh..

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TH Well have to check it

by check in

Yeah so. .so we need to let Lloyd know that tomorrow Did Lloyd come in from

Santa Cruz today at all

TH Not as far as know

OK yeah though he was working remote control from what heaiearlier Urn

you got the issue about um either Charlie or ffike signed file that we had to

whack again like and hour later

TH Yeah know Cathy told me

Well you are gonna you were gonna let Michael know he had to the..
augment

TH Right already told Michael Michael changed the checklist and said dont mail the

source 331 eng

OK hadnt checked in the last half hour so didnt see it

TH Yeah he did it
just within the last half hour

Well that figures then Urn.

PH Hes actually down here tight now

Hes down there right now

TH mean he was down here hes still around unless he left mean he was here 10

minutes ago

This time of the night What in the hell did he come into the officis time of

night for

TH He said he wanted to this morning hes

play gold so catching up

There you go Urn OK All right so Gordon said Macs going in for Java tonight

Javas uh
gonna clear everywhere right were gonna have the
tojyctoL
lihtright
TH Uh assuming that all works out yes

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OK so the only thing thats still

hanging out uh is security and the rest of the Mac

project stuff./ Were gonna have lot of it done were not going to have all of it

done

TH Well its just the only again assuming everything works out the only security

well be missing is Mac

television blocks out audio

whispered camera direction

Hey low lifes if the phone rings hand it over to Cathy all right

Your phone

Yeah

Ml right

break

tWhat happened here

Well that makes us stay Oh its got to be the great food No wait its the

dancing no its the um .let me see we have to answer the phone..

youve been locked out of your house

Uh well live in Michigan And commute So its quite long commute

dont make make

it
every thy only it about every two weeks or so But um
what happened last night and tonight is that were in tons of changes for the
getting

release and so uh Ive been here for about uh dont know 60 hours or so and

urn you know like we have couch so can sleep But um were ripping out

security because you cant ship that its illegal against the law cause we live in

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really bountry urn. .and uh we cant ship out bunch of other stuff that was

written by weird people who wont let us ship it so were tearing out pieces and

sticking in stuff that we can stick in and it all has to be ready by like Friday And

that rneans we have to stay up lot longer than you ever would allow yourself to

drive And as far as know thats what happening tonight too So Irn waiting for

Gordon to check in After Gordon checks in then Im gonna go through and rip out

the
power plant that weve modified and use the power plant thats uh with the

development environment and do the same thing with the text editing tools so that

we can just ship with it

straight off the disk and then life will be great And all Ill

have do the security

to is put in
changes that somebody else sent me and Ill be

able to sleep

How long have you been up

Oh today not very long Today Ive only been awake for since about 430am

and its now about uh not far past 1130 so what is that grarnps...about um its

for me
shitload of time

Uh are we gonna get waste power plant tonight

Absolutely

You keep saying that

know Im just waiting for Gordon

Are you sober yet

Im absolutely Sober

Youre sober arent you

You know am

Oh OK All right Im gonna be downstairs lying to Tara and Michael in the build

pit OK

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All right do it
good this time

So guess 430 to 430 is 12 hours to 1130 is another so maybe 18 hours

Light work

Yeah normal

flow about you

laughs uh...

Are you up right now that is the question

Im...this is why Im here got like hours last night Urn got in at like in

at spent hours fixing something which we still dont know what caused it and

we got rid of the problem by commenting out one line of code and like one file and

one location..

Exactly the right line of code

Yeah it took us three hours to find it and we still dont know exactly what caused it

but were happy that it works and uh Im still pulling 60 hour week and Ive

still got like project on top of that and this project is kind of like getting more and

more mundane as time goes on It kinda sucks But uh otherwise Im enjoying

myself Im playing this game and thats like..

But you only have one job

Yeah this is
my job right now

When was your age had 14 jobs laughs

When was your age used to butt sheep for

living youve got it
easy

Is this standard fare

Uh theres always more work at the end theres always more work at the end

However were trying to make who stayed up late the people who actually screwed

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up People who should stay up late at then end are the people who have made the

errors and have to fix them Unfortunately when you get down to the end in

/ who have
something like this they just have to keep the people to fix the problems

and usually the people who make the problems arent the people who can fix the

problems So would have to say that this is not the TV interruption worst Ive

ever seen it Its not that bad theres not that here so late But
many people the

truth of the matter is writing software is different from real estate

selling Selling

real Estate you sell to people the people are asleep at night When they go to sleep

you have to stop selling real estate

QJJj1J TfWts different from

manufacturing cars Manufacturing cars you do the exact same thing on the

assembly line Its different from books in from every

filing library Its different

could
thing you imagine Its like art for money It is the most frightening thing

because you never know when youre done except that they tell that its going
you

oor so you must be done

And its not really done then

So this isnt Ive seen bad and this is not that bad

Do you still love software writing

would never do anything...well there is that other thing No Ive been

programming now for more than 20 years And uh would never do anything

else cant imagine what Id rather do Its the most remarkable combination of

magic and um mean get really romantic about it Its like the sorcerers

apprentice You know the first

thing that ever happens when you learn to program

this so long ago now for me that uh its almost hard to remember it but its

like Fantasia when Mickey over book thats open on

is the the
standing mountain

and hes looking in to see what to do and he does And he doesnt

something really

know what he does but it makes something happen And of course that thing gets

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out of control and keeps going and thats the way the first
program you ever write

works You dont know why it works you dont know how it works you just

push button and it works

And you learn to worship the devil so you can make sacrifices to make the code run

You learn something is and you fix and new

wrong it little by little
you learn

spells And at first thats all they are have no idea how
just pure magic you

inside works at all And then one day look and you say wait
it
you this
\\anything

is
piece like that piece maybe could twist this part off of here stick it on to there

and pretty soon youre starting to take stuff And you could take and
apart it
apart

put it
together totally different
way now now its like whole new world You

think oh before didnt know anything now know something now and you

keep hitting new levels like that Its the exact perfect mix between something

really hard hard and fast like In the world the world
physics physics is way the

is You observe it to sort of write down what does and then you can
you try it

make predictions about what itll do in the future And the really really soft end

mathematics Where the world is whatever you say it

is and then you make up

new worlds This is right in the middle Some stuffs hard and fast thats the
way

its gonna happen thats how much costs and thats the only can work
it
way it

But get to make up the in to and how the money

way spent and
it
goes there
gets

which pieces do what part its exactly the right set of challenges never
nd get

tired of it Its remarkable

How do you feel about it

41
Uh dont know as much as Scott Scotts like walking God Hes like Buddha

and shit he knows his shit As for

me Im just hacker

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You grew up in Great Britain

No Los Angeles

How did you find your way into software

Which do you want first

Whichever

OK first got in to computers guess theres few different

ways got into it

first Urn shit First and prime way got in was games like
playing games

games are cool Games are what want to work on Games are what want to do

As for the time being Other than that was art My were
parents artists they were

kinda weird they gave me really stupid name and Ive resented them for it But

otherwise its been Urn most of

good my art skills picked up from them and

when first went into art was when my dad brought home Mac what was it 2C

and first learned to use Logo on that And uh that was in the ass but was
pain it

good fun After that was super paint and thought hmm this is kinds cool and

ended up hacking of
the operating system my computer and twiddling with it and

doing the twisting of something to make work in different and

something way

that and eventually realized and of around with

exploring that sort by just playing

shit Id actually have to learn

something in order to be able to go any further So

started learning programming and uh from there went in to every field of

computer science that had the skill to go in to at the time was in

college by

And just kind of woulh my way through here by being able to pick up bits

pieces of whatever needed to know at any given time Urn hold on

laughter

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You know its funny thats the Almost

cause way got in to programniin My

friend John Enders and we used to read games magazine this is ack in the

70s and we saw this article in it about this new computer the Apple and uh it

was playing lunar lander or some cool game So we found out that it was being

sold down at this store called the Basic was

Computer Shop this in Akron Ohio

worlds most mentioned town And we walked all the

way down there to this place

we were both really you like 11 something like that dont remember the exact

year but it must have been like 1975 or something like that Walked all the way

down there and they had this machine there the Apple 2. And they didnt really

know much about computers to werent

selling people buying
peopecause

computer back then It was just all

stard um we went in and they had

they had these Apple 2s and they piayZes And we played games all thy and

they let us And so of course like lab rats we went back the next day to play

And the
guy the first thing he said to us was arent here to
you guys play games

are you Now we might have wanted to play games but we werent stupid We

knew that there was answer and answer to that so we

right wrong question said

of course Oh no but then we had to think of some reason why we were there So

obviously it
was were here to ...program were here to program thats right

And he said great Handed us stack of books Uh it was like the Apple Soft

book and uh the manual for the computer couple of other things so we learned

how to
program We were writing programs within two or three days We became

consultants 11 and 12 years old we became consultants for this store And we

started writing programs for money for other customers who came in and wanted

stuff By the time was 12 years old was making $50 an hour programming

computers People say what should be should be should grow up to be

a...I
say computer programmer Make money now Its great

ZZ10 -Zaz_
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How do you do the Michigan to Mountain View Commute

fly Yeah you cant really walk it Its very very far Even by plane it take and

half hours Uh but they put me into special its like car but longer with

wings and urn laughs.. and get here and sleep most of the way dont drive

much when Im around here Uh you know its really really expensive to li

here Buttalifornia the rnost could imagine make more money

pays money you

now than my entire family has ever made And in Michigan California money is

like the German mark is to the lira walk around with paycheck thats like
anf

executive back there So bought house that costs one fourth as much out there

than it does here And uh live quite nicely indeed with my wife and four sons

Its like hes from the fucking third world and shit

Its amazing Theres quite time change You know one two three its like the

60s back there or the 50s As you cross the time zones like here its something

like 1201 in the morning and its 1954 And of course when
there
go back get

lot of quizzes because Im computer expert People are always saying things

like uh bought computer do you know how to turn on Stuff like

it
that

though cant really do Michigan accent Theyre not all like that but
u3jgL_.-.
more than my fare share of questions about computers Ive never heard And so
of

mostly pretend as though know something Oh yeah Usually-therdill be

switch and it will have like and and you flick it toward the and then its on

And then there might be some kind of autoexec.bat file or something because

usually they have windows machines theyve never heard of Macintoshes or

boxes or LINUX or half the things we have here since we write programs for

every OS known to man Urn it is quite challenging Tspend lot of

commuf
time on the phone with wife accommodations
my my here of course like to keep

as cheap as possible so stay with friends and uh well you can see my cube is

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decked out little better than other peoples have the extensive have
library

nice couch have mattress under there in work from

little can sleep art my

children pictures of my sons Calebs last birthday party have control of the

light switches This is what Id like to get if

my wife truly lived me shed let me

have one dont think she does life is

How old are your boys

My boys are 15 64 or three cause his birthdays in May and Uh

Benjamin Zachary Ezikial and Caleb

It must be they must miss you when youre gone

They miss me terribly The difference between California and Michigan can be

summed up in this this very very simple little statement Here it can never be dark

enough there it can never be quiet enough Thats an unfortunate change

And when do you go back

Two weeks on two weeks off Is the plan So laughs

camera direction -I

Any time
definitely/always
buy round trip tickets always know how long Im

going to be back there never know how long Im going to be out here But

havent bought my tickets yet which means wont be for at least

probably leaving

three weeks form this moment because havent Im sure

bought my ticket
yet So

Ill be here for as long as you might care

Thanks

.a.zLy 361c
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television

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