Netscape Documentary

Tape 15 3/10/98

Garbled speech

TH Right and so we will end up..

So Dave to get people..

TH Right What well end up doing is that Ill get-Ill get my guys on that and they will

urn do the thing with moving those particular files into NS Crew and maybe
Ill/

be here for another three or four hours so if you run into any snags that you want

me to help you work on just give me call space in tape then same speaker

Laughs Right Thats-thats fine we just we need just the sort of the general

overview of what youve done and then have engineers ready to go Make them

go away Okay Yeah got people just sort of like poised to do that So thatll

be all right And you think youll hay-youll be ready for that for tomorrow

Okay Okay All right thatll work um like said Ill be around so if you have

any trouble tonight and then Sarahs coming in early tomorrow morning so were

tag teaming if
you have any problems um that you missed me for just drop her

drop-drop us both mail and shell pick it

up from there Okay All right Bye

No no no no .. Doesnt matter

TI Were doomed

Were doomed

TH Okay so..

looked at my clock and looked the clobber builds to current logs urn and

theyre are currently no hairs in them and it then it should uh Ti over any second

now

TH He is now making his changes that the uh for the make system for UNIX he

thinksll be done in the next hour or two and then hes gonna roll around the

windows The default is for it to be on but its tied to an environment variable so

1o 5-a
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Netscape Documentary
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Tape

then our job will then be to take that and in the Moz-the Moz medium like the
wrap

this dot MK file urn etc

Right

TH And uh same with windows And then Mac were just gonna have to like wrap

to make this work

To guarantee this work right

TH That way itll get done

Then we get to take it out of client resources...

TH And then we get to .. with client resource modules along with Java as soon as

thats done

Im going to be in
merge hell tomorrow....its not gonna be fun but

TH Yes sir Yeah Thats still true Not-no thats Don McAslans primary hell right

be merging with your in before he

now in fact hes gonna have to shit if
you get

does

Then well..

TH Okay yeah hes ready for that All right Bye Hes like Im still building Moz

lighted UNIX is that wrong

No thats fine because thats fine I-I think what I-the the merge hell will just

be..

TH He says actually his changes to the make system are extremely moderate it

shouldn be that big of deal

But everybody else is changing s-there-thereve been there-thereve been they-

thats W-Ill do the same

theyll make before it
three car pools go in since- okay

way used to keep AIX Um Ill keep going AIX

TH Okay okay

Here you go

j$c3 to7
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When do you think the tree will be open again

erase that If Javas in not

TFI Not before tomorrow morning Wait okay gonna go

before tomorrow morning If they say Mercy we cant do it then

Yeah

TH You want to put more license stuff in there

assume theres more to do and can-Ill just keep walking over the whole tree

looking for the insert license here tag and

TH need to talk to Lloyd because Im looking over the list that hes generating on

the hostage list and theyre wildly inaccurate mean just blatantly so

Well-

Whats that

TH Urn for example the unsanitized list has this-has bits of files in it that
says status

sanitized on it so Im trying to figure it out where hes getting-what-what hes

to that status
doing generate

Taking in
foreign connections...Generate we generate

TH No thats signed

Uh turn around let me zip you up

All panicked and they go ahead and do the right thing and finish it sign it and

finish it

IH Is long as thats what theyre doing

Yeah

TH Were not-were not that good at following Mike Judges rule number one Dont

dumb

Dont be dumb

TH Theres too many of us All right All right so mush go go on wsht Im beating

you off Okay claps hands All nght Chns Space in So whats the
tapef

right thing to do here Christopher

1c

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Urn Im saying- well probably-I could just-I could comment those out and then

what happens is is someone tries to make it to the license but

fake snore

power plant will probably just throw up at the lack of concern and say ugh
cant fight this resource They can get more fancy about it tomorrow or

Ill Lets-lets-lets do that for now cause want to see that build and were
go green

not really concerned about the inventive licensing right this second

Probably not

TH Right correct me if Im wrong Mr Mozilta

really dont think we are

TH Okay see sighs

Particularly since these license files..

TH Are wrong

The old yeah

54 TH They have

Ph yeah
all irnportant clause about this is not the fail-safe
op systems laughs

Oh yes And-and what-then there was that bit about urn like the list of countries

were not allowed to export it to and it included some countries that dont exist

anymore

TH Exist anymore

Right space .Still not allowed to ship them to that-those countries

Damn straight space So there were actually three things that brought the Mac

the Mac to its knees

TH Three completely independent things or three related things

Three completely ... things

Yeah but .. Ohh ho ho ho ho To quote Cartman God damn it

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See when that happens its little

scary because this is on ram disk right now

TH So does she really know how this loses its tree

Its like woops Im sorry all youre changes are gone

That would make me feel real warm and fuzzy about doing builds on Mac

TH Brandon think you-I think if

you were doing builds on Mac th

might lose your ram disk would be the least of your problems

Well no

Going insane for one

Th Okay nynex yeah

Going insane for one

Im still struggling with Brian being warm and fuzzy

laughs Yeah that is bit of stretch isnt it

Its linking Its linking

Okay

.AK-47

TH Is it-did it link

Yeah it linked

Watch it

Now Im going to check in first then Im going to launch it

Oh so you dont want to crash your system and lose your tree

Exactly

This is the burliest build machine in the company Ill have you know

Really

TH Yeah 600 megs of memory

700

700 megs of memory builds-start to finish including pull 45 minutes

1-
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Oh God where are those files

machine that doesnt even have an operating system

Laughs Oh thats being cruel

TH But-but true

But true Its probably one of those parts you want to cut
Unfortunately

TH Well Im sony any operating system that doesnt protect

its own like kernel

Macintosh kernel. Well thats-thats

If
you could call the as having

Thats one of the more fun thing about the Mac actually

Memory protection is good thing really Hey its Bruce

Why are you working now

No the good thing about the Mac is the flying toasters Pretty much

But you can have that on windows too

You can

Yeah After dark has windows version

was unaware

But you cant get the uh you cant get the shooting of toasters down anymore

Now what is does an do

That was good Yeah

Something with sheet on their address

Joe still have that Theres pointless waste of resources

Dave asks if they are going to head over to see Jim

Yes in about ten minutes

How long was that Authors .. thats Im supposed to be using

For the past year or so its

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 f.c._/
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15 3/10/98
Tape

Yes its now

has first ..about ten people

Authors is just that-that little picture
that the-the

where you know

Yeah where Cochacks is the mask

Yeah

Were you even in that picture

Yeah yeah yeah was in the back

The-the cool about that picture is that Hink Wynn is like in the second row
thing

But he took the picture We didnt want to leave him in

Are they

reme-I of look
Uh I-Im not familiar with it
enough that remem-I even just sort at

and gla gla gla

it
go

They begin with the editors XT

But at the time that theyre not-you know its sort of like mumbledy gook and then

mumbledy guk

Have you been upstairs yet

No was gonna walk around

Lets go upstairs

Okay but if you do though

the stuff that sent to

was gonna see if
you were-if you were screwing around

you were stripping Java out Okay never mind

you should fight someone who is gun terrified

lie hasnt been a-he hasnt been real X-head in like

Its been time shouldnt be touching that

very long

No no you dont have to touch it

you simply have to look at it and go..

theres gonna be somebody upstairs

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Netscape Documentary
Tape 15 3/10/98

Ill look at it and make guess..

upstairs

Dave says can you wait one second for an hour

Does-does someone have batch

Were both reading..

Batchelor warm fuzzy Brian laughs

Thats not it the colored hair cannot know thats all hes got

Its the skin of the warm fuzzy hair

So ub its very rare

The idea is that Gilson calls and you go ohoh remember that had to do with

something no no thats not important oh now thats important That has to do

with the issue as were starting multiple threads

Right yeah In other words youre starting up loop so now went through

found some stuff that Ed Consay had removed this way and I-we turned it back

on Now when we turned it back on other things were gonna fall but now were

in there de-bugging it and go boy this wou-you know Brendan would know

this

You know sob sob Ive tried to get Brendan several times to play in this game

hes really you know resisting heavily So you know youre smiling no more

so -so we get-we get together

..Play

whispered Go go go go

...I-I set date And understand the wallflower concept but .Im not even sure

what the bunkheads might be doing and so no we do have plan though the

/038 CO

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plan is well call the cheating move the Jeff Weinstein call which is you check in

all the stuff and you didnt throw the switch

Now thatll get us out of merge hell so we wont have to fight with other people

and then we can go on continue de-bugging

By another day or two

Truth be known it gets us little bit out of the limelight but the reality is we still

start getting

Yeah yeah but at least other people wont be waiting for us so lets..

Does that sound reasonable Is it

cheating way to thats how we relax the

people Its-its gettingits too intense like its like

I-i-i-it allows us to stabilize whatever dumb thing you do

Right laughs

Makes us

Right and now we can try throwing the switch and we can also call up the next guy

and say why dont you try throwing the switch and help us debug whats going

on in alot of and well have an easier time spreading the load and getting
they
L2
some processing right so

Do you know who works for these days Is he at now

dont know

garbled sounds

Really annoying bell in your ear for the past few sentences

Now thats the plan for 10 oclock right now And you know were just looking

at it and guessing when it doesnt work out..

Pc f/Jft7
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2-
ambient sound

Are you guys X-heads in the skies

Uh no

Okay

So youre off the hook Never mind

did know that Whats his number Call him at who

Hang on-whatis it

494-..

You dont need power Geez therere all these wonderful people there at

Netscape you know...you know and your socialite extraordinaire and this is your

big chance to broaden your horizon and uh

What else we got here..

What is it
youre trying to talk me into at Netscape..

Just come over and just take look at where our head is..

Okay..

This..

Its not that hard

Hey how you doing

All
right

You feel like shit

All right need an X-Head and all of you are gone need someone whos like

fairly reasonable with like the stuff for Java script Who would that be

77 bleep7

10
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God these

Yes we did

We went over the Moz-Moz light

Yep 826-5285 Where does he live

How are things going with Mozilla.corn do you think

Oh Christ...alight whats his number

Urn the mail coding is still think people are really upset about it

Have you started to publicize that and say stuff about it

No mean Im still trying to make it

go out and urn..

think even if youre gonna make it

go out it doesnt hurt to go public and say

youre worried about it..

Well weve already mentioned that we have this problem with the database code

they know that its not gonna work if it does go out

Think of this them might be two things cant

it
way three things that go out so it

we bring up three that are giving us trouble and we save one were fighting ..the

claim is were trusting the net so...Tara was saying that it

really makes sense to..

break

TH this is Tara we have bit of panicked emergency do you know

Romero
anything about the thirding functions and the XFP that calls into Java and Java

Script

Yeah well essentially yeah theyre getting deeper and doope into in and theyre

to out what the hells on So MacAfee

trying figure going said either
you or Tosha

and you were closer so tried you first...all right Ill give him

11
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Its all based on an environment variable..

Right and how are we going to do an environment variable the

meg system on the

Mac and get project files

TM Hi Chris its Tara...um how much do love me Good What do you know
you

about like
threading stuff that falls into Java stuff and Java makes it feed OK
were you following this thread on heads that we were having in the last day or

two about ..OK so the Java guy has hit

really big huge brick wall If you were

conferenced called into bunch of engineers think

you you might be able to offer

some insight on this

Nick Thompson he went away. .oh man all right well yeah ..they bugged into

the XFE and think thats where the problem there

may be some residual fit rock

stuff that were now seeing because

just of some IF DEPs that we were using that

we werent supposed to use so..

Were going to
go in and that will us out of
get merge hell so we wont have to

worry about well be

merging and able to de bug and we can spread the debugging

further across an
..get guy to pull the tree and help us to figure out what the

blank is on So
going thinks this helps to us out of merge
get hell
help release

the tree and some

get us more assistance So dont

like the release the tree part

TH like that to...Cochack says once you get something up and running hes got the

source in front of him you can conference call him in but he the
says person

teal1ywant is Nick Thompson Thats what

laughter said

Well no thats not gonnhappen He no works here

longer

So...whats with
gonna happen

TM OK were shutting this...well thats for and Java For either

security for both

You ohoLId be

o7 t3
12
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Were not gonna worry about it

TH You should be

Oh theres something dont know then

TH Well ..means that the switch that we have to throw..

JR Is gordie going to be here late tonight Does he need any help

hes coming back at 10 and so is Rick so were to be Windows

going working

were gonna Windows straightened out but sounds like the Mac
get it
plan with the

is were gonna end up breaking the commercial tree and..

It sounds like he was talking to some Mac people and this was the agreed upon

approach

Well he didnt talk to me and he didnt talk to ..Ill find out Ill talk to him at 10

if Im still here Ill call him then if not Ill call him from home Ill probably still

be here

Til OK were actually were in better shape for the Mac on Java than we are for

security

really

TH Yeah because Gordons been working on it all along right...for security whats

gonna happen is...were pretty boned...Jeffs release the check of the

gonna list

things that need to be done he said it shouldnt be that bad he doesnt want
just to

figure out the Mac all on his own which

projects is reasonable right so the

second that hes ready were gonna grab Chris and or some other somebody at

Mac desk to sit down with him and figure this out

OK how late is Christ gonna be here

Well Jeffs not gonna be ready tonight Jeffs not be ready til tomorrow so we

dont have we have

to worry about this right all to
worry about is
nowSo getting

the Java
initial dumped tonight so that we can get most of the code in verify that

fl a.qc ze
13
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Netscape Documentary
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back and see what minor tweeks we

the tree and then tomorrow we can go
reopen

need to make in order to flip the switch.0

What sort of verification are we gonna do on Java..

here until 10clock they

TH It depends on Im not gonna make my engineers stay
if

We do in the bull verification on build machines or

dont want to can either it
pen

verification
we can do finder box verification Id kinda like to in the bull pen

and be more of the results

because it would be faster Ill alot sure

do that
Well its more controlled You can do an the bull pen verification you can

remote control right

Im gonna and see what they

TEl Yeah realistically yeah...well go talk to my guys

leave any earlier tomorrow so

want to do so cause were not going to be able

dont want to bum em out to quick

Well it its like Gordons back in an hour

until 10 which
TH And so is Rick Potts Were not nothing gonna start happening

can 11 the soonest So for Mac that will be pretty

means verification start at at

build its 45 minutes start to finish...yeah oh Chris..

quick

OK and we know what kind of pain were in for..

were an hour and

TEl For Windows and 1IRX for the IRX build probably looking at

sobetweetr1t1OOfiUollii1OP1ethiflZtthat Not too bad4 an4 then

hajf

well do the tinder box stuff concurrently and well do optimize ND bug to make

sure we didnt screw anything up there

OK so Paul went home to do laundry

TEl Thank god

and Dagly and Scott are here and Dagly is starting to fade Id
Thank god still

rather than Scott start to fade hes having problem right now Jiemember the

stuff he said he was going to have in tonight We hit snag mean it all works

weve right and has to do with

hes gthe tools checked in got build problem it

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Netscape Documentary
Tape 15 3/10/98

XP hes alot more of the code and too

strings.R right cause having top replicate

real thats on some of the other

front end...yeah so its pain in the ass1and gate

work that he was gonna do ..he not going in tomorrow until wasting power plan

\nght

TH CaiiWe-reassign any of his list

think we the other problem is

can probably get the power plant reassigned

Moz-meduim right and he some

is ..Paul hit bunch of snags on hit interesting

cases and wanted to know what you thought about this know this is making

night Sorry we didnt make it over to...did you guys go to La Fiesta

your

TH Oh yeah

Yeah it looks like it Urn. .uh we were actually trying to do documentation we

were sitting in room for an hour and half..idiots OK so the problem hes

running into to is weve got mail and new..

break

Why dont you consider the rest of the Mac staff and me on call and well see

what happens Whats the worst case scenario It just bums all night

TH Worst case scenario is it bums all night but damned if Im gonna let that happen

obviously..

Theyre-theyre looking at the

Til What

What on windows

UNIX ones UNIX

That would be bad

Til That would be bad Lets go downstairs Come on Steve

15
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Youre Mac is on speed again by the way

Okay great

TH Okay great Mac is burning all day and day and now..

Have you had chance of getting

They got it to work right

TH This thing that you were just talking about

Breeder code

TH Yes thank you thats the word was looking for

Okay Good

TH Lets put more bugs on Michaels list itll make him happy Makes him feel

wanted

Okayum-

Were down to the twenties very briefly were like 27..

Oh you want to get .information

Um so do we have
any other issues that were gonna worry about tonight Steve

No just to get it
running again so- Ijust watched it and it
say hey youre already

running copy and Im like no Im not oh shit

laughter

TH that right Pete

Well if thats the do

last ...I
hope you can it on windows

dont know what Karen to make sure you could run builds on windows

Ah what the hell What are we all on the first floor

TI-1 uh because were going to

youre on the because you didnt

first floor
..
get out on the second

zaccz3
16
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It didnt stop on the second right

TM Now whos fault is that okay white boy

La

wasnt standing next to the buttons Chris was

Whats all the light in here for

TH No dont show it over there

Yes exactly

You know

Its dark Its really dark

Okay lets see

TH Im about to be unhappy Okay

Scott

TH No because then Mark and will show up Did ever tell

you the story

No what you need to do when you see it

burning like that all red you need to rent

like that
garment or something

TH laughs like this shirt

Okay what-what di-what like here

TH This is the same oh Danm it

Who di-who broke into this Thats what you were saying

TH I-Well you know dont know hang on

You were calling Romero at home is he still checking in turds or

Oh Shit

Cause he-hes my responsibility Im supposed to watch him

TH This is the same stuff Don

Huh

We dont know

17
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Netscape Documentary
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Im not here

Yes you are

TH MHiney Shit call on speaker phone made Tell me again what you thought

that uh cause all of the sudden the clobber buiJds are burning now too the

same issue

Taras thinking youre wrong Don

ave no-I wasnt sure what the anything there

that looked like it might be related other than the fact-I mean
security

TH Other than the fact that those are security calls

That some of-well some of them were theres other ones were like Motif calls

and stuff which mean those are in totally different parts of the tree

TH Give me an example of the Motif call just so know what Im looking at

Theyre all the ones that are like XML whatever

TH Okay All right Hang on

Okay

TH Like that one

Probably .. against the right library or

The .. have security have .. security check

So whats going on is there some debugging over here that has to do with the

windows build and over there is having to do with uh the uh UNIX build And

so Jamie agreed to come and humor us and walk through the code and take look at

elements and give us pointers Do-while theyre trying to track it

security check

That is an initialization of initialization that had be

just piece to put in in order to

make things run which because some

they were
is failures
pretty positive getting

over here and werent sure why So this sort of again like
is finding one wire

which was not connected and you hook know

it
up you dont if the cars gonna

cj Z-5
page 18
Netscape Documentary
Tape 15 3/10/98

start but its another wire And-and so well continue with the-the-looking

through the section and jump back and forth Thats whats going right here

..have to step all this stuff cause ... Java

Okay at the well

keyboard sounds and garbled speech

think this is all printing stuff

Its all printing

Now unless its access wont start

Its access

more garbled speech

Theres all this stuff in server land trying to worry about and bugs or
Yeah .. cause we looked at this already

This is where we mostly turned it on so all the Javas returning Java So were

really turning it on so that that shouldnt be an issue Uh the command letter Yeah

you can put that on that

Theres we turned it on already

Right dont even know what that is

Thats like Dan start up register think its all-

Smart update

Yeah that
thing is getting the registry

Oh

garbled speech

Ah but you can look at what its calling thats the interesting thing

Yes see its got XT op at input is timer called that It needs-it needs one uh

file..

iC 72S
Yeah

page 19
Netscape Documentary
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That looks like its probably in general-I can imagine that being applicable to Java

script as well as Java Cause Java script has the events

Okay

So-so we can uh tread on space The worst thing will happen is we turn these

things on we start getting unresolved links and we have to start figuring out

whats the stuff and

And then work backwards

And then back it

out yeah

Does it work okay Turn it back on

This is turning on the call back

Yeah yeah

Declaration..

break in speech

The Java script doesnt have any chrome right

Well you see chrome meaning the bottom saying

This is an unsigned..

Security unsigned with uh

Okay yeah youre right youre right so that only happens in Java fixed it and

have to do it
again

break in speech

Youre right

Its dangerous one

Well-

Yeah but you could look at actual code line if youre already looking you could

see it

page 20
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Uh well we see place where its turning- step return

What is that

Uh step return expands to print followed by return Its actually macro at the

start of that file Go to the start of the file on the macros fine

So if
you change the macro and just hit return

Break in speech

You may want to put in some Martinis ..

Yeah

Going to bug

No its probably merge problem

Okay its not in there

just

Okay so you just did an update from the uh

Yeah..

Okay fine Why dont we uh thanks again

Sure

Eight bucks

Oh yeah

att/1n1p -ze
/i

tc ....5J

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