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Youre check on the .siging4n process

gonna

instructions to go sign
LT that weve given everybody
Right whats
is
happening

of sign...that the files are being signed

and the tools should display the state

the that the tool actually works And

but we need to make sure that urn all files

because the files werent in fact signed before we you know

its difficult to test

take the
Im now dry run through
did it so what gonna do
is just
before we right

with and engineer to make sure the tool...shows up right

prognAiThe-by-hand

of engineering is knowing where you are

This is major part

to Tara earlier the worst part

is
LT Its everything right the worst was explaining

when you have ground have ground hog day when you wake upyt4ay.and

into and nothing seems to have changed

you got meeting

LT to test some signing of files

Signing of files

Y1 L\ Yeah want to sign off on files and make sure my tool is working properly are

to sign off on some files

you ready

have some files that could off..

sign

7LT Youre dead sure of them they have the license in them and stuff if you could just

make
rt sign like two or three could check to sure my tool..

Sure yeah no problem

phone call

working on files

Im absolutely sure

LT That these are OK You want to touch them first

Oh dol

LT Yeah do you see stiiffontheTh make sure theres no references

any

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the good engineering thing ..The
Going through all the proper steps here doing

could be still in there Yeah just those two...OK now need to touch them

Jamie in and everything...OK good

LT Right and youre sure that put the license

moment of truth
Go -4i This is the

And on the map board to make

LT The moment of truth right lets just see the state

sure that...it would be scary right now if this didnt work..

dot

LT most of your stuff

There it is All right so and youre gonna sign off youll get

signed in tonight do you think

Urn have an issue to resolve in my resource directory

LT But you can sign everything but that Ijust want to get everything down sign as

much so that we can the number down so that we know

as you can get it...get

where the problem spots are wont know where the problems are until we get the

last 10% So want to get the good 90% out of the way

Im probably going to sign around 500 files tonight

LT

Did it work

LT Yeah

Explain

LT OK so need to test to make sure that the signing process works and so what we

had what we did was we went through the signing process of um two files that

Garret was gonna needed to sign off on and so hes done that urn we watched to

make sure that the original got bumped in dot and urn and they have and so

that works and now what we have to do is go and make sure that the tool
part

reports it So the engineers part we sure of works and thats OK and now we

have to go back to the hostage list and make sure that its updating properly

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the two files that have been signed

So Lloyd are those like first

LT You da man

laughter

All right

at tinder box and tinderbox hadnt reported any signed

think so was looking

So just wanted
fi1e

do go back to my desk Do you want to go...which

LT JS6 what probably ought to is

where can actually

urn where Ive got tools and stuff
is across the highway my

It might be boring to watch me program..

of scripts
Well actually what Im going to do is run couple

jr
camera directions

90 however
Til Well we got down to 31 bugs from so thats huge accomplishment

we have 30 bugs to do in the next uh two and half days...broken...conVentional

10% of the bugs the hardest ones

wisdom say that the last 10% of the bugs to are

to fix So if we dont get down to 30 bugs in the next or down to 10 bugs in the

next 36 hours were kind of in trouble

So that Euphoria might be misplaced at the moment

but its that like little

TH Well no mean we are definitely making good progress last

mind and makes you be here at 400 in the

chuck that really starts blowing your

morning

Do think youll be here late tonight

you

TH Oh yeah rest of the week may not get home

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break

send
Hi did Michael you

wow what crowd

TH No Im just coming to give moral support

Whats happening Jim

Im really happy Guess

what Im doing Im looking at Meg files

night were Hubert Shaw

players of last
the
JR Torn Pixleys working major typical

Tom Pixley just came down to help us with some problems were
and Raman urn

and were not making progress were not quite

having were clicking on links

with
sure what we broke At the same time as thats going on Raman is working

Java
big windows
the person on the
Rick Pots and Rick Pots is historically

were to both
installation So hes very cornpetent at that area so just trying get

he was going to thin mint

And Gordon came in because get
results working just

Mac Weenie whos gonna bring us through our Mac

for free but hes also the

So her over and she had...shes wondering how

woes guess you followed

So now were desperate enough that were going to

were making progress right

with the debugger the

specialists in certain areas Were having trouble debugger

inside the its sort of

see whats going on system
thing that....allows
is this you to

and its in the and some people are dealing...its

like diagnostic tool system

multi-threaded
multi threaded problem and so theres all different things going on

the different at the sante time The

magically is able to poll all platforms
debugger

tool isnt quite working and its making more work..

there be action around here tonight

is gonna

well be moving forward to trying to get

At the current rate that there will because
guess

the builds going everywhere and...right now we dont have answers

17

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background conversation
general

TH So wheres Gordon how doomed is he

break the
Uh he feels comfortable the one thing hes sure of is
going to
pretty

commercial build..

were with that until Monday Come

TH But weve all agreed that willing to live

Monday we will be all over that problem again

so now the heard part

is to make the free source
Right right

we need make our Friday deadline

TH Or Monday plus whatever days
to

catch that real soon So this is

feel lot of confidence that this is going to up with

Windows is gonna catch up with UNIX

team out
goat from the Java
to figure
TH So take it that Pixley is the sacrificial Scripts

the...so is thread
it
Mozilla

evidence is and hes supposed to...so were not sure if

Well we have strong that it

Brendan is not psyched to come and play with us or what but this is the sacrificial

he down...right no he mentioned that he was

lamb that was willing to cast

to be working with Tom So there arent any meetings Im missing

supposed

right

TH Nothing Im just making sure that

you guys are still on track

Just come around...right...I really think theyre working well Jim Geliman is also

doing some stuff with builds to make sure things are clear

TH And Gordons in good shape All right good

Were having lot of fun

Im done SO now deed at Chris Cardiff for while and

Til Oh boy then to go yell

leave you alone

guys

Hes upstairs So yeah well be here Im sure it always is the case if Brenda

stayed to check in we have to do the final poii at the time we tell her well tell her

shell lock down the tree for about hours just to do build and make sure things

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We cross our fingers that we dont

are stable have to pull the tree do our merge

and then check that in So my guess is that were easily

hit any more merge bugs

at the current rate

going to go until 10 or 11 oclock tonight just

Til What do you think your ETA is for when youre gonna be ready because right

want you guys be

tree So dont to
now were still trying to fix the

fix the tree Good stuff Its better that you fix it than we fix it
Right keep

TH were sorta raise the issue potentially now so want to make sure..
Right gonna

back out pieces of change enough be em...to

The interesting thing is we can this to

what This could take

repair the bustage but their not quite sure specific pieces

from half an hour to two or three hours feel confident that

anywhere very

were gonna progress through it..

TH And these guys are some hours away..

how terms
up You can ask them...Raman are in
But theyre keeping you feeling

of status and builds..

Windows done by oclock 12 oclock

think we had the the evening by

TH Is that when youre gonna want to start your check in

Yeah

JR Or is that when the merge would start

done by you know or oclock so

Maybe before that maybe Well try to get it

we can.. tcL nt bM 1S

build done in of hours..

Well have one set done well have one probably couple

TH OK so this is what need need at least two hours lead time from when you guys

think youre so that can both one stabilize the tree

gonna be ready to start merging

and make sure everybody knows to stay the hell out of it

starting at that time And

look like were

got to take out to dinner
some because
point Ive my it
at guys

want make well fed

gonna be here late so theyre
to sure all

You could take us out to dinner toclaughter

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TH Well will will take everybody out to dinner tonight if we can get Java checked

in

Yeah think we can think the main problem is the..

This one we can solve this problem the difficult one is the Java link not working

the links...

This is what Pixley is working with Hubie

If that problem is solved that we can go in earlier tonight think this one we can

get it done

TH So give me time. to aim for oclock oclock

Get the whip

TH oclock

And if it to be like or and we know were gonna miss well give

gets it you

call

TH All right all right

By the
way Im gonna be gone at like oclock because Im baby-sitting tonight

TH Why is it that when its the husband its baby-sitting but when its the wife its just

the standard child rearing Whats up with that

dont know

Im sure she like playing.. bet she unplugs the keyboard..

She can hang out in the build room

TH Oh great she can play with the tequila bottles Urn thatll keep her quiet....all

right so oclock the trees gonna be shut down and building and you guys will be

able to do your merge And if

you guys arent ready or Im not ready well

convene at 630..

That sound fine

And just can be back around 10 if all hell breaks loose

Yeah and we can call

you over the phone

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Tj-l You have connection from home right you can logged in remotely

Yeah think it should be OK but..

break

JR These guys they tend to work very consistently so theyll just keep working until

its done and they wont uh but they dont need food they dont
stop until...so

need sleep they dont need anything OK so they take pay but..

TH Food eventually Taco Bell..

Urn so yeah think the thing is just when you check in on them...it disrupts

little bit of the activity and..

Th Alittle

Well some yeah but Rick is there so we have different people coming in and thats
hxt
what we want Its just that the big thing is we have problem and were not sure

what the solution is and shes saying Gee wanna shut down the tree for the

merge when should shut down go well as soon as well fix the problem

when will that be its this problem its sorta like when your car doesnt start and

youre wondering how long will it be till it starts again Well were looking

TH But also have to give the hard deadline to the rest of client en so that they know

when to expect..

think its fine to shut down...aim for oclock shut down the truth is think..

TH You think oclock shut down on oclock that give you guys an extra two

hours..

you should do six oclock shut down and then build and ey4t-you

know worst case at or 10 oclock we say no were horked open the tree again

people are not going to loose that much check in time but yet well get some

stability So think it would be if we could be ready this would really help us

6f6 27
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10
lot If were not.are people really going to yell at you if
you close from to

and nothing lands

TEl Probably but thats..

Well theyll all at you no matter what you do so..

TH Like care....the tree is on its

way to being green if by 530 the tree is not green

across the board then yeah will shut down because well have to for

stabilization But dont want to make that call right now

about think about us to

If youre really worried us though you should getting

stable tree and making it so that we have gap to jump in on

TH Right thats exactly what Im doing Ijust want to make sure its parallel effort .z

not serial effort this...Im running out of hours

TH All right Ive got to go talk to Cardiff see if can find him and Ill touch base

with him in couple of hours

OK see ya

break

want to know thats its our that we broke it And the problem is that we
Jrwe have lot of changes and now if it doesnt work were suspicious of all our

changes when the truth is it could have been broken by something that happened

minutes before we check in we have to be sure we have stable base and thats

what were gonna go for So Im asking her to shut down the tree shut down

means stop people from checking things in verify that its totally solid and..now

theres good chance from the way theyre talking that were gonna find the

problem and work through it At that point we wont have to wait an extra two

hours before we cheek in And then..my worst case scenario is well were not

45 -f
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ready OK we call her up and say no this is not working we do not want to hold

the tree any longer We could probably hold it for you know an hour or two

without complaining and again this is the trade off of slowing other
anyone really

people down versus getting us were perceived as large check in that needs the

stability and needs things not to be moved at all while were working So...is this

all making sense

Sounds like the time to be here shooting is around

Thats right go out to dinner and youll hear tell tales thatll also..

break

Is there any particular network youre doing this for

Youre and then youre

going freelance
gonna sell

What are you thinking at the moment

TH Well foremost is probably since them is such massive whump about to hit the

tree Im glad its Jim Roskind as opposed to other engineers mean all the

engineers here am really great but Jim is exceptionally methodical about his

process Urn the likelihood that his team is

gonna do the right thing is
pretty good

urn but its just this huge thing right pulling Java out of the
is
product

of
is...tendrils it are everywhere so this is gonna be pretty scary and ongoing with

this is the remainder of the security changes that were making Jeff Weinstein

checked in all of his stuff but the flip hasnt been switched to actually turn it
off

the stuff is still in there so were trying to make changes to all of the MEG files

now to take that into account and hopefully all of the links will continue to work

and we wont have massive build breakage cause theyll basically gonna be going

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on simultaneously But all of the merges we need to get em finished by

tomorrow and then spend next couple of days

the picking up whatever pieces fell

on the floor and Friday make the Tar Ball that gives us three days

The clock is ticking

TH Yeah

frthtb t1rL
break ii

cH
Ijust called Michael Any minute now..

Yeah so the deal is that if Im in CP and Im trying to get my business done and

Im building and all this other stuff the tree that were about that
talking they use

is on the outside of firewall and writable by people

is youve never heard of and

can be down for hours at time and stuff which under different
is set of trade

off and priorities that someone whos to do CP...release

trying

LT dont believe it

Woooo well then weve got to...because thats the current state of affairs right

its certainly outside of the firewall

Li Its certainly outside the firewall but dont believe that there is different set of

priorities for the outside people..

AH
LT ...than for the inside people

Sure there are especially chronologically at certain times there is more

nothing

destructive to somebody flying to ship product than having stable base

LT Then you go off on branch mean thats the same

just for anybody..its not

JZ The theory is remember we had

this fiction about how you dont ever check

something in that doesnt work and if it ever gets checked in backed

it
gets out

13.1 oi
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that weve always said and never enforced The theory is that well actually

enforce that for the tip

Thats fine youre still subject to hackerand stuff are also to Mozillas
you subject

schedulehe large integration of the fumble feature its gonna be down Wednesday

at this oclock for four days until we get that thing integrated everybody buys off

and then Netscape No

for whatever reasons decides no no no no were gonna

ship Beta in the middle of that week The tree cant be down for four days

LT But were all one team The outside and the inside is all one team This is where

disagree with you mean think we fundamentally disagree think wre all one

team

Then what do tell...then why are we having Mozitla.org at all mean the whole

fundamental premise behind the thing is that in order to cultivate the outside

developers you are going to need to be able to manage set of priorities and

constraints and stuff that are different for than for people that are in the CF

development shop

But heres the thing....say IBM is shipping their own versions of the browser

Um my thinking was that they would be working out of the Mozilla.org tree just

like client engines Everybodys working out of that same CVs server

Sure but then its April and dont know what date it is its some day and the

Mozilla.org have bunch of things they need

people to get done at certain priorities

and state in where they are...which are different from CPDs CPDs go to change

their mind

But heres the thing is that dont want there to be this like hard distinction

between how client en works and how IBMs version of client en works right...so

yeah if um youre saying it

doesnt work to have all of these people working out

of Mozilla.orgs tree and if thats true for Netscape its true for IBM OK with

that as the premise why are we running CVS server

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Its not clear to me

OK well then thats the conversation we need to have guess

Well It kind sorta makes sense to me to use CVS for the people who are doing the

development work on the Mozilla tree but for the people who are

Whoa the people who are doing the development work on the Mozilla.org tree is

everybody right

Thats the point right IBM is trying to ship by product tomorrow afternoon

Netscape is trying to ship product 10 days from now and them is

guy at the

University of Pittsburgh who wants to check some code in

Well the person at the University of Pittsburgh gets told that were in stabilization

mode and youll have to hold your stuff in your tree

OK fine..

That doesnt work because IBM and Netscape arent synchronizing their scheduled

Thats for Damn sum they not

LT Well dont believe that theyre not believe that people are going to wan to ship

off some...at certain points in time Mozilla.org says oh were going toward

stabilization mode just like

just.. xAN

Lloyd sorry but IBM is

integrating browser features into Lotus notes mumble

mumble fumble bumble theyre not shipping any browser..

LT Right so what were going to do is were gonna start up the last stable
thing theyll

integrate that stuff in and sometime theyre gonna want to land those changes

Thats the way theyll work

The pull model the pull model Lotus is pulling OK and theyre trying to ship

What do you mean

And and some times they

stop polling cause theyre close to shipping

iS

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LT Theyre close to shipping and actually what they do probably is start at stable

point do their stuff ship product based on that stable point and then wanna land

their changes

Fine but the tree is the tree cant go down it cant disappear from the Network for

hours it
just cant do that

Why would that happen

LT What do you mean

Theyre gonna have copy aof it inside their own shop that they can depend on

come hell or high water with by 24 support

LT Or they might be on branch

Branch schmanch Theyre gonna have it on machine they can manage

Its question of where the is not where code is not when

repository the the code

is in the repository mean hes saying that IBM is not going to depend that this

they have no financial

organization that control over Mozilla.org is going to keep

their machine on the Network 24 not going to be to take that

theyre willing risk

LT Thats fine they dont have to take that risk

Yes they do

LT What they can do is they can check stuff out do all of their development work

check it in to the branch Fc

3Z-.zo /V

/333 3/C tscrJ

sec L1CO

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