What Replacement For This Timekeeper Chip - Page 12

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EEVblog Electronics C ommunity Forum » Electronics » Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff » What replacement for this timekeeper chip
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cs.dk What replacement for this timekeeper chip

« on: October 09, 2016, 10:07:15 am »
Supporter
I've got an Atlas Copco GA7 compressor in my workshop. The old "Elektronikon" controller suffers a
problem, which renders the compressor useless
From what i have read, the battery inside the "timekeeper" IC dies with age, and the compressor
then shows "Error 200", and won't do anything at all.
Posts: 567
C ountry:
Since a new controller is really expensive, i want to be prepared. (1000£ for a damaged unit!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELEKTRONIKON-Compressor-Unit-1900-0701-25-Atlas-Copco-
1900070125-New-See-desc-/282200720798?hash=item41b479459e:g:eYAAAOSwpLNX7lu0 )
The timekeeper, or what it's doing is a ST M48T02-200PC1 - Datasheet;

http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/cf/6a/69/ff/7a/6e/4b/bd/CD00000520.pdf/files/CD
I have seen some pics about opening the thing, and add a buttoncell externally. Seems risky though.
Is there some sort of replacement, and would I need to get some data out of it, while it is still alive? If
yes, what sort of reader would grab a dumb?
Atlas C opco.jpg (148.53 kB, 800x462 - viewed 781 times.)
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evb149 Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2016, 10:39:10 am »
Posts: 1663 Unless I missed something in my VERY CURSORY search (i.e. double check because I did not) the exact
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/what-replacement-for-this-timekeeper-chip/ 1/8
C ountry: compatible (this is an assumption on my part, I suppose there could be some miserable way in which
the faster speed grade 70ns or 150ns parts that are listed in stock could be systemically incompatible
with the 200ns speed part you have due to some different ID code or timing or ....) parts are still
available:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=M48T02
If you look at other suppliers you could probably find 200ns parts still available.
Of course even if you buy a new part from distributor stock I'd want to make sure the "manufacturing
date" of the part is actually new enough that the built in cell is likely still going to be OK for several
more years since the battery's clock starts ticking when the battery cell is manufactured. So buying a
10 year old manufacturing date 200ns module "as new old stock" may not be better than buying a
more recently made unit.
Logged
amyk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
Posts: 5902 First question: what does an air compressor need an RTC for!?
These RTCs with integrated battery are found in various other things like PCs, test equipment, and
the like. I think Dallas/Maxim were the first to come up with this utterly stupid design.
http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/dsrework.htm
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2009-10-10-renovating-a-dallas-battery-chip.htm
You will need to read the contents of the IC and write it to the new one. Any multi-programmer should
be able to do it.
The thought just occurred to me, this might be planned obolescence if they kept the firmware for the
controller in there.
Logged
cs.dk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Supporter
@evb149 - Thought those were obsolete. I prefer a never design with an external battery though, but
maybe the chances are small.
Posts: 567 @amyk - I don't know? But you can program the compressor to run on ie. weekdays from 6-15,
C ountry: weekends from 7-12 or what ever you like.
I actually don't know if the firmware is in there, but it would not surprise me if it was. The compressor
is from 1998, but it is still going strong. It has only ~30K hours on it, so there should be at least 30K
more, if the stupid designed EEPROM doesn't die for me.
There is a forum post about it here, but most are in russian, maybe some one can translate?
http://comprforum.ru/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=954
Logged
helius Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
Quote from: evb149 on October 09, 2016, 10:39:10 am
O f course e ve n if you buy a ne w part from distributor stock I'd want to m ak e sure the "m anufacturing date " of
the part is actually ne w e nough that the built in ce ll is lik e ly still going to be O K for se ve ral m ore ye ars since
the batte ry's clock starts tick ing whe n the batte ry ce ll is m anufacture d.
No, this is not the case. The device is in the inactive state until it is installed and instructed to begin
Posts: 2600 oscillating, and the power draw while on the shelf is insignificant (nanowatts). Of course there will be
C ountry: some self-discharge, but it is very low in these types of cells.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 11:22:56 am by helius » Logged
evb149 Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
Posts: 1663 Now to address your other questions:

C ountry:
(a) How to back up data on this existing chip.
What I am assuming is that either:
1: your unit has some WARNING symptom of a low battery (which happens when the internal BOK
monitoring flag is set by a low battery voltage level but not yet a data loss producing low level). In
this case the unit must be backed up and replaced before the battery is truly low enough to produce
data loss.
or
2: Your unit does not even have the BOK level battery cell low level warning activated, your cell is
within the nominal operating voltage range, and as you said you are just trying to be prepared to do
preventive maintenance / replacement.
In the case of (1) you of course should find a solution ASAP. In the case of (2) you may have years
before you have a battery low problem though maybe only weeks, who knows.
If you can keep the VCC applied to the chip module so that the battery is never needed for backup
then it looks like (from cursory examination) the cell power may never be needed by the module and
the battery's life will be maximixed though eventually the cell will still die even if not being used for
supplying backup power. From a cursory glance at the datasheet it looked like the BOK battery
voltage level might only be checked at the time the external VCC supply rises above the battery
backup level and power is switched from battery to external. If external power was continually
applied then maybe your module would indefinitely continue to preserve data and not even notice
when the battery ultimately dies while VCC is always present.
That raises the possibility that you could device a means (UPS backup or whatever) to keep the VCC
supplied for your unit "forever" even during power interruptions in which case you should be able to
continue operation even if the cell dies.
I don't know how much power your compressor needs to keep the whole unit powered but "idle"
when not in use, so it may or may not be possible to simply keep the digital board supplied with
power while the equipment overall is not running / switched on / whatever, or if the magnitude of
power used could not be suitably sustained with certainty and economy.
With some PCB modification on the system you could possibly cut the VCC supply trace to the SRAM
module itself then install a schottky diode and "power OR" type battery backup circuit of some kind so
that the SRAM battery backed module would have an externally fed (maybe from a redundant set of
regulators supplying voltage from a couple of 9V lithium batteries or something into a schottky/other
ORing circuit) supply even though the rest of the compressor logic could be "off". There are some
potential problems with performing such a PCB modification, and also by having the outputs of the
SRAM module energized even when the chips whose inputs are tied to those outputs are not
energized there is some risk of damage to some of the chips. You would have to investigate the
specifications of the chips to see if that could possibly be a suitable choice.
Of course if the SRAM backup cell in your unit is still able to preserve the data in SRAM then you could
carefully desolder the module from the PCB, backup the memory in the module via an external readout
/ programming interface, and then program that data into another replacement module which would
be soldered into the system board or placed into a socket on it. Fortunately the I/O needed is only
that needed for a simple SRAM operating at 5V, so the readout unit must supply 11 outputs to the
module's address lines, 3 outputs to the module's control / enable lines, and the readout unit must be
able to read and write eight I/O bits for the SRAM data bus. So the readout/programming unit must
have 14 programmable logic output pins, and 8 GPIO I/O pins. The supply voltage presented to the
SRAM module must be 5.0VDC. The I/O lines should have rise/fall times of < 5ns so you'd need fairly
clean short wiring and connections to support that in theory though in practice you might be able to
get away with some kind of protoboard plugboard solderless breadboard mess. Maybe.
So even something like a decent size Arduino, I guess, might have 5V logic levels and 22 MCU I/O
pins, or if not then there will be inexpensive SBCs that have 22 GPIOs and 5V I/O capabilities. Or you
could even use two Arduinos at once one for driving the address bus / control lines, and another for
reading / writing the 8 bit GPIO data lines. Or something like that.
Anyway if you can safely desolder the module from your system without data loss or catastrophic
damage you can "fairly easily" read the data with a few hours of programming and prototyping work.
The same setup with a somewhat different programming logic could of course program the new
module's SRAM with the data that had previously been extracted from the old unit. Of course you
should use the UART connection to the PC to save the data read from the old module for verification /
analysis / permanent backup.
So if you are disinclined to remove the old module from the existing PCBA before you read out the
data it has, you could in a similar way as the above connect the 22 I/O lines from the module to a
readout board via short wires observing signal integrity concerns as much as possible with the
wiring. You could wire the PCBA and device under test to either a logic sniffer / analyzer or some kind
of Arduino or similar SBC with custom programming. The purpose would be to "sniff" the data read
from and written to the existing module while the compressor is activated and run through all of its
operations for several power / operational cycles and its settings / configurations are changed as
possible until you have fairly good confidence that reads / writes to all locations that are ever
required to be read / written in the SRAM by the compressor have been observed and that the data
that should be programmed into a new module is fairly well known. It may be that some of the
locations in the SRAM are never used, though in the worst case it could be that some critical locations
of the SRAM are simply seldom used but must contain valid data for the case when they eventually
may be read. In such a case you may not be successful in knowing all the required SRAM data simply
by observing the I/O activity to the existing SRAM since unless you can see writes / reads from every
single location you may not be confident as to the importance of data in locations that contain
unknown data due to not having observed I/O to those locations.
But maybe with luck you could sniff enough data to make a substitute module. But if I personally was
to try such sniffing / logging, I would ALSO read the entire module's RAM contents after carefully /
successfully removing the module from the PCBA just to be sure that I knew the data contents as fully
and well as possible.
Hooking up a sniffer "in system" to 22 I/O lines possibly operating at 200ns I/O cycle time speeds may
not be a trivial undertaking, so maybe the risk could be similar or less to just desolder the existing
module and read it out only outside of the system. Only you can say if you are confident to
accomplish the module removal without data loss / damage or if you think it is less risky to sniff in
system.
You might have to solder on 22 I/O connections if sniffing in the system, or you could find that micro
hook / micro gripper or similar types of logic probe pin grabbing connectors could be feasible to use in
your case.
You could perhaps use a sniffer made from something like a Saleae Logic type logic analyzer or Bus
Pirate or some LogicPort product or other kind of sniffer that can handle recording waveforms from 22
I/O lines at 200ns cycle rates and capturing / decoding enough data to decode the whole contents of
the SRAM. Not all of the units I have mentioned may have the SW or HW capability to do that easily or
at all. Certainly some kinds of logic analyzers can but not all of them. You could even try to write
some logic analyzer type of SW using a FPGA development board or PSOC 5 development board or
something like that customized for this purpose but if that was easy for you you probably would not
have asked about this, so you may have to see what "already made" logic analyzer tool is capable of
the task or simply resolve to read / write the data out-of-system and find some solution for that.
Some old "universal programmers" even should have parallel SRAM / EEPROM / OTP type of reading /
programming capabilities and 24 pin DIP ZIF socket support that could accept your module maybe. So
using an off the shelf device programmer / reader might even be possible to read / write these DIP
type SRAM modules with only a little HW adaptation if any. You could see what is available with the
same pinout / package width size 24 pin DIP sockets and 15.24 to 16mm pin row width connectors
and suitably programmable pin assignments.
There almost certainly are/were "out of system" boards to read / write these SRAM modules, maybe
even ST's web page for these units offers solutions for HW tools capable of reading and writing the
exact parts without any special effort.
If you do replace the module with a new one in the system you should consider installing a DIP
machine pin socket or ZIF socket if possible to facilitate future maintenance. But maybe due to dirt /
vibrations / space available it might not be suitable or possible.
Also if you are going to access the modules in a self-made breadboard / interface for readout /
programming, using a socket like a ZIF or machined pin one for those operations is recommended.
Maybe even a wire wrap socket could be used and might facilitate your work.
Another possibility could be to modify the control MCU for the compressor so that it does not rely upon
this SRAM but of course that is also a challenging project. But maybe it could be found to be simple if
it was determined that the existing programming was easy to decode / modify somehow. Maybe it is
in BASIC or something simple.
Logged
NiHaoMike Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2016, 02:23:26 pm »
Does it use a direct to mains motor? If so, it should be trivial to reverse engineer how to read the
pressure sensor and make a replacement controller.
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Posts: 4687
C ryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.
C ountry:
"Don't turn it on - Take it C ryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
apart!"
Jeff_Birt Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Regular C ontributor
Posts: 193 Theses devices are not used for firmware. Typically they are just used to store configuration or
C ountry: calibration parameters and the RTC functionality. I seem to recall that the guy from The Signal Path
fixed a piece of test gear that had one of these and would display an error code related to it not
being able to read or write to the device.
Logged
calexanian Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
Those appear to be like the famous, or infamous Dallas clock modules. we used them in some of our
designs many years ago. RTC modules with ram like those were volatile ram. Once the battery dies it
loses memory. I would however find it hard to believe critical information needed for startup would be
stored on them, because after all they are traditionally static ram and that is a big no no from an
Posts: 1854
engineering point of view. even if it has a battery backup. If there a way to hotwire this thing to just
C ountry:
run when you need it with a pressure switch or something?
Logged
C harles Alexanian
Alex-Tronix C ontrol Systems
timb Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
I believe later ST versions of these did away with the integrated battery approach; instead the IC
itself had four pin sockets on the top (one on each corner), essentially the RTC IC had a socket on the
top. The battery was the shape of the IC and would snap on, allowing you to replace it when it ran
down. They used a small capacitor to retain the information on the RTC/SRAM in the few seconds it
Posts: 2528 took to replace the battery.
C ountry:
Pretentiously Posting
They called this system "SnapHat" or something like that. Ultimately they didn't take up any more
Polysyllabic Prose space than the Dallas equivalents, but had the benefit of being user replaceable. You can still buy the
batteries on Digital-Key!
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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., C heez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.

chip
Supporter
Thanks for the replys, i have something to think on now.
The Elektronikon controls the following, if i am not mistaken;

Posts: 567 The Y-D motorstarter relays, and the time in Y before switching over, how long time to run before
C ountry: opening the loading/unloading valve, how long time to run unloaded before a shutdown, load and
unload "windows", etc. All values are programmable.
It monitors air element output temperature, dew point at the cooler, air pressure, oil temp, emergency
stop, motorload/overload, automatic restart after power failure (if selected), and probably something
i've forgotten.
It also count the running hours loaded and unloaded. And of course a service counter where you can
reset for oil change, seperator change, filter change, etc..
Logged
Pjotr Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Frequent C ontributor
Posts: 461 Looking at the picture it is just an overmoulded standard DIL package on a IC socket. Probably a
C ountry: standard RTC+Battery brick. Since the battery is dead anyway I would try to replace the battery at
first.
Take care to work clean. Impedances are very high to keep leakage current low. It is one of the
reasons to embed the battery: To keep leakage current as low as possible. Especially in an
environment where cleanliness cannot be guaranteed.
B.t.w. the data sheet states "The M48T02/12 TIMEKEEPER® RAM is a 2 Kb x 8 non-volatile static RAM
and real-time clock which is pin and functional compatible with the DS1642. " The Dallas/Maxim DS1642 is
widely available.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 09:33:42 pm by Pjotr » Logged
amyk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
Posts: 5902 Quote from: Jeff_Birt on October 09, 2016, 02:44:36 pm
The se s de vice s are not use d for firm ware . Typically the y are just use d to store configuration or calibration
param e te rs and the R TC functionality. I se e m to re call that the guy from The Signal Path fix e d a pie ce of te st
ge ar that had one of the se and would display an e rror code re late d to it not be ing able to re ad or write to the
de vice .
2 kilobytes is a LOT of space for calibration data, especially calibration data for an air compressor.
It's not unknown for companies to do this, storing firmware in a volatile memory:
http://www.arcadecollecting.com/dead/dead.html
Logged
Knuckx Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
C ontributor
Posts: 8
I have replaced the battery in some of these chips like the photo in your post shows (quite a lot of
old, non-standard computers used them, as well as at least one games console).
The battery is in an overmold on top of the DIL package. The overmold is softer than the IC package
itself, so it's unlikely you will damage the device unless you are careless; if you cut into the correct
side of the device, you don't even have to remove the original battery, just disconnect it (if you don't
want to - I would remove it though). A sharp stanley knife or scalpel, along with patience works well -
heating the knife seems to help things along too.
I normally use a CR2032 holder instead of a tagged cell, and epoxy it onto the top of the IC, or
another convienient surface, so next time the battery dies, I don't have to break out a soldering iron...
Logged
Ian.M Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Super C ontributor
Posts: 7190 I'd go for the minimally invasive approach of just isolating the old battery and connecting a
supplementary one. All the resources I have seen on the web for that chip say the crystal is up at the
pin 1 end and the battery contacts are in the center of the other end., so that's where you should
start digging, with the chip clamped in a vice with its pins protected by a piece of wood with two saw-
cuts in anf the top protected with thin card. With luck there will be enough residual voltage to
determine the battery polarity without having to fully expose it.
Logged
Doctorandus_P Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
Regular C ontributor
Posts: 151 Your best bet is probably to keep the mains power to the compressor on.
C ountry:
The RTC only draws current from it's battery if it has no other power.
shelf life for Lithium batteries is probably longer than your compressor wil last.
Logged
picdev Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

chip
C ontributor
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2017, 02:04:08 am »
Posts: 14
C ountry:
I am trying to fix a elektronikon controller, does anyone know where to connect a ref voltage to
simulate the sensor ?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 02:09:18 am by picdev » Logged

chip
Supporter
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2017, 05:23:54 pm »
There is a schematic in the compressor instruction book - I think the pressure sensor is a 4-20 mA
type, it has 3 wires.
Posts: 567 EDIT: Can't attach more then 1 MB here - The manual is here; Atlas Copco GA7 Compressor Manual
C ountry:
Logged

chip
C ontributor
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2017, 06:23:33 pm »
Posts: 14
C ountry:
I was looking for this manual for one day! thank you very much.
I made some test with inputs and I found the analog input, it takes an analog voltage between 1-
5volts, you set the pressure limits and one relay open and close.
The start and stop button doesnt work
I will read the manual
thanks
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 06:37:32 pm by picdev » Logged

chip
Supporter
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 08:15:24 pm »
No problem - I have the spare part catalogue as well; Atlas Copco GA7 Spare Parts Catalogue
Logged
Posts: 567
C ountry:

chip
C ontributor
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2017, 08:47:26 am »
Posts: 14
C ountry:
the electric diagram isnt clear
Logged
cs.dk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper chip

« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2018, 05:04:49 pm »
Supporter
Quote from: picdev on June 28, 2017, 08:47:26 am
the e le ctric diagram isnt cle ar
Posts: 567
C ountry: I've scanned the diagram i found inside the compressor, it should be better then the first in the
manual.
GA7_Schematic.pdf (349.9 kB - downloaded 73 times.)
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cs.dk What replacement for this timekeeper chip

The timekeeper, or what it's doing is a ST M48T02-200PC1 - Datasheet;

Atlas C opco.jpg (148.53 kB, 800x462 - viewed 781 times.)

evb149 Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

amyk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

cs.dk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

helius Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

Quote from: evb149 on October 09, 2016, 10:39:10 am

evb149 Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

Posts: 1663 Now to address your other questions:

NiHaoMike Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

Jeff_Birt Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

calexanian Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

timb Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

cs.dk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

Thanks for the replys, i have something to think on now.

The Elektronikon controls the following, if i am not mistaken;

Pjotr Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

amyk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

Posts: 5902 Quote from: Jeff_Birt on October 09, 2016, 02:44:36 pm

Knuckx Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

Ian.M Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

Doctorandus_P Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

picdev Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 02:09:18 am by picdev » Logged

cs.dk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

picdev Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

cs.dk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

picdev Re: What replacement for this timekeeper

cs.dk Re: What replacement for this timekeeper chip

Quote from: picdev on June 28, 2017, 08:47:26 am

the e le ctric diagram isnt cle ar

GA7_Schematic.pdf (349.9 kB - downloaded 73 times.)

Ju m p to : => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff go

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