OHN
,. RAE
this culture there is an adage that
1 ~ves, "Jack ojal! trades, master of
nvne." Juhn Rae is theexact opposite of
t/wt statement. In truth, Johnny is one of
th e San Francisco Bay rlreas busiesl and
mn1 t versari/e musicians. Thar is because he
is an exce/lenr drummer, vibist, and a/1-
aruund percussionisr. Jo/m is also, inciden-
ta/1.1; a teacher, clinician, author oj Jazz
Phrasi ng For Mallets, and Latín Guide For
Drummers, a contributing co/umnist jor
Modero Drummer, con tractor, disc jockey,
gourmer cook, anda professional "yenta"
(talker). John is an amiable, humorous,
outgoing individual who has performed in a
wide variety oj musical situations. As a
vibist, he has perjormed with, among oth-
ers, George Shearing, Herbie Mann, and
Cozy Cote. Sorne oj his drumming credits
include Cal Tjader, Charlie Byrd, loe Pass,
and Stan Getz. For the /ast few years, he has
concentrated on theater work and has
p/ayed jor musicals such as the National
Timring Company s renditions of Sweeny
Tcad and Chorus Line. In the orea oj
recording, he has perjormed on numerous
backup da les and jingles, and is credited on
o ver 40 a/bums. Regardless oj what type of
musical situation he is perjorming in, John
Rae is alwavs raslejul, imaginalive, comple-
menlOJ); and abo ve al/, swinging. To put it
succinctly, he is a consummate musician.
CB: Would you describe you r musical back-
gr¡1t!Od?
J:<. : '.Vhen I was a kid, 1 started on piano.
T;nt was because both of my parents were
cla., , icall y trained professional musil:ians,
and they thought that that was the way for
me ro start my musica l educarion. My
father was not only a conductor, but also a
teacher in Boston, and he knew George
Lawrence S tone, who wrote Stick Control.
CB: How old were you when you began to
play the drums?
JR: 1 guess I was about nine or ten when I
bega n to study the drums with Stone.
Unfonunately, I only studied with him for
six months, because when 1 was a kid, I had
rheumatic fever three times, and that inter-
rupted my studies with him. I never did go
back to him directly, but studying with
George S tone gave me ataste of the drums.
Anyway, after I got out of the hospital, I
started back on my piano studies at the
S~hilli nger House, which is now the Berklee
School of Music. During this time I started
playing the vibraphone on a self-taught
basis. 1 also studied timpani for two years at
the Boston Conservatory v1ith Carl
Ludwig, the former timpanist with the 8os-
ton Symphony. In addition, I studied har-
mony and theory for two years in adult
OTAL MUSICALITY
MARCH 1985
night school while 1 was in the eighth grade
through my first year of high school.
CB: When did you start studying drums
again?
JR: At the Schillinger House there was a fel-
low named Sam Tull y, who was a basic
drumming instructor. 1 first studied with
Sam when I was about 16 and ready to go
out on my own. 1 also studied with him
later, after I had been playing awhile. Later,
I wound up studying with Stanley Spector
for six months, because Terry Gibbs had
turned me on to the fingers as pan of my
vibraphone technique. So 1 figured, "Here's
a guy right in my hometown who is sup-
posed to be an 'ace' finger-coordination
teacher."
CB: During the middle '50s to early '60s,
didn ' t you stop playing the drums for a
while and just concentrate on playing the
vibes?
JR: Yes, basically, 1 just let the drums go for
a while. That was because, at the time, the
vibraphone was a reasonably rare instru-
ment, and there were only a few players
around of national prominence. However, 1
always considered myself a drummer.
ln the mid '50s, 1 moved from Boston to
New York and lived there for about seven
years. From 1955, when 1 joined George
Shearing as a vi bisr. to the middle of 1961.
when I carne out to San Francisco as Cal
Tjader's drummer, with the exception of
occasionally sitting in on drums , 1 caneen-
trated mainly on playing the vibraphone.
When 1 was with Shearing, and later with
Herbie Mano, I not only played the vi bes,
but al so the timbales and other hand percus-
sion . Over the years while 1 was playing the
vibraphone, I was also developing a sen se of
musicality which then carried over to the
drumset.
CB: In what ways did playing the vibra-
phone inftuence your drumming?
JR: Beca use I actually had to stand in front
of a rhythm section, night after night, play-
ing a melodic instrument, I developed an
awareness of the drummer, the bass player
and everyone else in the band. So when I am
playing drums, I have a lot of knowledge of
where a tune is going, when the bridge is
coming, and where the interludes are com-
ing up.
CB: As a drummer, you have backed up
quite a variety of jazz artists. Who are sorne
of those·musicians?
JR: My drum tbing really started going
when I joined Cal Tjader's band. The way
that it happened was that when I left Herbie
Mann I went up to Toronto . For about four
months I had been playing with the Peter
Appleyard group. He's a Canadian vibe
by Charles M. Bernstein
player who has played wirh people lil-:e
Calvin Jackson and Benny Goodman. He
and I had a group in which I was basically
the drummer and he was the vibe player.
Occasionall y, we did sorne double vi be and
drumset routines-"show biz" stuff. Any-
way, one day 1 ran into Willie Bobo and
Lonnie Hewitt [piano player] on the street.
Cal and the band were playing at the Colo-
nial Tavern. 1 couldn't get by to see them
during the week because I was working with
Peter, but 1 was fmally able to sit in at an '1
afternoon session and play sorne jazz
drums. In those days, Cal split the band into i!¡¡11
two sets. There was the quanet set, which
was MJQ-oriented bebop, and there was
the quintet set, which was straight-ahead
!1 '
¡11
Latín. Welll sat in, and everything worked 1;
,,l!
out real nice. Fortunately, my Latín thin g
was going pretty well beca use 1 had not only ¡¡
been playing timbales in Herbie Mann 's 1·
¡:
band, but also George Shearing's Quintet.
So even though 1 hadn ' t been playing drum-
ser very much, at the time, 1 had the con-
cept.
A couple of months la ter, when 1 was
playing with Peter's band down in lndian-
apolis, Cal called me on the phone and
asked me if I would like to do the gig
beca use Willie Bobo would be leavin g
shonly. 1 said. fine, and he sent me apile of
records . When I received them, 1 copied the
basic drum arrangements off the records.
M y wife and 1 arrived in L. A. on a Monday,
and 1 opened the next day with Cal at the
Summit. The following day, Wednesday, I 1•
hada recording date with Cal, and 1 was the '
only member of the band who did it. It was
a studio date with Claire Fisher, and it was 1
1 .
one of Cal's latest recordings for Fantasy 1 1
1
Records. I did a total of seven years with
Cal-five years in one shot , and then later,
another two years. During those years with
Cal, 1 did a total of 16 albums.
During that period with Cal, I also played
on the Stan Getz Big Band Bossa Nova
album. I did that in 1964; that's when bossa
nova was first popularized in this country.
At that point in time, bossa nova was so 1 '
new that there weren't too many American ''
drummers who understood the style.
CB: Drummers, for the most pan, seem to
1 1
be better prepared these days to play a vari- ' !
ety of music. It seems that 20 years ago, yo u 1 :
' 1
were either a jazz drummer or a Latín
drummer.
JR: This is basically what !'m saying; the
lack of experience on the part of the Ameri-
can drummers is what got me the gig. Dur- '!
'
ing the process of recording the Getz album,
arranger Gary McFarland finally said,
"There's only one drummer around who
25
 John Rae with Armando Peraza, congas; Jim McCabe, bass; Cal Tjader, vibes, in 1969.
know s both end s of th e stick ," and that
happened to be me . As it turned o ut, that
was a fiv e-star a lbum in do iVn beat maga-
zine: it 's a lo vely a lbum . However, if you
listen carefull y to the album, you'll notice
that !' m not playing the double bass drum
be a t. Th at 's beca use I hadn 't wo rk ed it out
yet. I had j ust do ne my fi rst bossa nova
a lb um severa! weeks beto re. At the time,
there wasn 't the Latin o r roe k ' n ' rol! cross-
ove r ha ppe nin g like there is now . Toda y,
yo u can get virt ua l! y a n y ex perienced drum-
mer to play a good bossa no va. At the time,
I hadn 't dev elo ped th e bossa nova and
samba concept the way we al! did in later
years .
CB: What happened after you left Cal Tja-
der the first time?
JR: After 1 left Cal, I was with Gabor Szabo
for about a year, but I never recorded with
him . In that band, 1 took Jim Keltner's
place, because he didn 't want to leave L.A.
From a drummer's point of view, playing
with Gabor was a funny bit. Gabor called
me and asked if 1 wanted to join the band. 1
said great, because 1 wasn't doing anything
at the time. 1 had known Gabor when he
was a student at the Berklee School of
Music, and 1 had heard a few of the things
he did with Charles Lloyd. But 1 hadn't
heard any of Gabor's records under his own
name. At the time he was into his psyche-
delic feedback routine-which he did mar-
velously-utilizing light rock rhythms. So, I
got my drums and ftew to Shelly's Manne-
hole in Hollywood. 1 got to the gig early and
26
set up Pretty soon , the guys in the band
started showing up one ata time. I was ask-
ing them, "What kind of music are we
doing? Are there an y kinds of charts?" And
they were saying, "Don't worry about it,
man. Just get up on the stand and play."
Even after Gabor showed up. I asked him.
·•¡ want ir to sound as tight as possible. Can
you give mean idea of what the -; tyle is? "
He said, "Don 't worr y; j ust play." I said
okay and that 's what I did-j ust played.
"YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE
THAT YOU HAVE GOOD
TIME. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE
IT, THEN THE REST OF THE
BAND WON'T BELIEVE IT."
Over the years, 1 developed a mental
technique for dealing with that type of
musical situation. For example, as a kid, I
played twice with Charlie Parker-once on
vibes and on another occasion I played
drums. I was working in the house band
opposite him at the High Hat Club in 8os-
ton. It was a great experience. Now th~ only
way to get over the obvious pressure of
being on the same bandstand , or, for that
matte r. e,·en being in the sam e room with
somebod y like Charlie P a r ker, is that
you' ve prett y much got to play mental
games with yourself. You might tell yourself
that he 's not there, or thar you're listening
toa record. What I used todo was, if 1 W<!S
on th e bandstand playing, I would prerend
to put myself out in the audien ce, and watch
and listen to the band. I would projecr
myself into the audience so that I didn'r
really have any conscious connection wirh
what I was actually doing at the moment.
I 'd hear things in a musical way and get th
total picture of what was happening. I'd
hear the phrasing, the spaces in between,
and when I'd hear a familiar figure coming
up, I then had the option of playing it, play-
ing between the phrases, or complementing
it in sorne way. Anyway, that's the method I
used at the time that I played with Gabor
when I didn't know exactly what was hap-
pening. I just closed m y eyes, listened to the
band, and allowed myself to play. Ir. other
words , 1 did it entirely on intuition.
CB: A lot of times, in playing situations,
your mind and body know what todo, even
though consciously you might not think
that they do.
JR: I f yo u ha veto think about playing fig-
ures like, "left-right, left-right," or say to
yourself, "! ' 11 do this figure o ver here," then
it can hamper the ftuidity of your playing.
Sometimes when you relax in a group, you
know what's happening, and you are famil-
iar with the group and its music, then you
MARCH 1985
 can rake for gra nted the form that the b~ nd
·s tak ing-the mterludes, tempos, a nd httle
~ings that go on during someone'~ solo . 1
used w be able to do that wlth p1amst Lon-
nie Hcwitt in Cal's band. 1 would be able to
think right along with h im. That was
because he was such a phrase player that 1
could almost always si ng his solos a bar
aht:ad. 1r yo u can do that in a band , it gives
you J good se nse of co hesio n and group
plaving. 1 hke to hear a band mstead o f a
group or individuals playing on a band-
;tand.
After Gabor, 1 was with Vince Guaraldi
for a while. 1 did a TV show [ You 're In
Lave, Charlie Brown] and two albums wi th
him .
CB: When did you start playing with C har-
lie Byrd ?
JR: 1 started playing with C harlie Byrd in
late 1973, and 1 was with him until Septem-
ber, 1975. For the most part, 1 played with
always played a very rich sou nding set.
CB: Are there any other drummers that
have influenced yo u?
JR: Aside from Klook, 1 particularly like
Roy Haynes and Philly Joe Jones. 1 particu-
lar! y like Roy's phrasing and his solos. 1also
li ke him because he's from Boston . [laughs]
There are so many good drummers out
there-people like Mickey Roker, who has
played with Diz. 1f Dizzy Gillespie and Bags
[Milt Jackson] like a drummer, then that
drummer is o ka y with me. 1 also like Connie
Kay, eve n though when he started with the
MJQ 1 thought he was a bit too conservative
in terms of how Kl ook had approached
music. 1 was such a Kenny Clarke fa n that it
took me a little while to reorient myself to
Connie's playing. As far as big band drum-
ming goes, !' ve always been a fan of Don
Lamond, Da ve Tough and Mel Lewis.
CB: lt seems that the main factor that ties
toget her all these drummers that yo u 've
recorded in a certain way. A lot of drum -
mers dug what Art was doing and locked
into that style . Heaven forbid that anything
should happen to the hi-hat, because the
time would fall a par t. An yway, when 1ca m-
pared Art's style of playing with Kenny
Clar ke's, 1 found that Kenny emph asized 1
and 3 o n the ride cymbal, an d 2 and 4 o n the
hi-hat balanced hi s rhythm. Ken nv's
rhythm is a son of left-righ t, left-right,
walking-down-the-street feeling.
CB: Kenn y's a ver y fluid player.
JR: 1 think that's beca use of his em phasis o n
1 and 3. Rece ml y, 1 was explaining thi s
point to drummer Steve Mitchell. We were
talking about time concepts, panicularly
when playing slow tempos. 1 told him that 1
thought drummers have a lot more flex ibil-
ity when accompanying a solois t at medium
and slow tempos if they put the emphasis on
the quarter notes, and de-emphasize the
middle note when playing a ride-cymbal '1

him on the West Coast. 1 only did one East mentioned is that they are all excellent time rhythm. The reason you do that is because it i
Coast trip with him. His manager wanted players. gives you the option of playing the same
meto m ove to Annapolis, but 1 really didn 't JR: There isn't a single mold. All of these kind of time that the soloist is playing. In
want to because 1 was really happy being in drummers !'ve mentioned so und like indi- ot her words, if soloists are going to play
San Francisco, particularly because of my viduals, particularly Klook. You can tell wi th an 8th-note fee ling, double up, or go to
musical position in town. 1 was also, at the him a mile away because of his interpreta- a triplet feeling, then yo u can accommodate
time, just starting to expand into theatrical tion of time. !' ve sort of analyzed his style. them and play the same kind of time.
work . and been ab le to reproduce so rn e of tha; Again, as fa r as the middle note is co n-
CB: Didn't you a lso play with Great Gui- feeling. In arder to explain what ! 've cerned, there are three options: You can
tars? learned, 1'11 give you a comparison of hi s play it either with a triple!, 16th, or 8th-note
JR: Yeah, while 1 was wi th Charlie, his man- style with Art Blakey. Blakey's style, partic- feeling. In an accompanying situation, yo u
ager had come up wi th the Great Guitar ularl y in the early days of the Jazz Messen- should phrase with the soloist. When you
concept. It was basicall y the Charlie Byrd gers in the ' 50s, had quite a heavy emphasis emph asize four to the bar, yo u ha ve the flex-
trio with Herb Ellis and Joe Pass. Later, on 2 and 4. lt was not only the stren gth with ibility of goi ng whicheve r way the soloist
because of Joe Pass' co mmitments. he !eft whi ch he p!a yed the hi -hat , but it was also goes, and then there 's no clash. There is
and Barney Kesse! joined G reat Guitars. 1
did the first live album with them at the
Concord Jazz Festival.
CB: What drummers have influenced yo ur
approach to music'?
JR: 1 would !ike to say this in large capital
letters: KENNY C LA RKE IS :VIY FAVOR-
ITE JAZZ DRUMMER.
CB: Wh y?
JR: He just swings, a nd it's a lso the way that
he senses the spaci ng of time. His drum-
ming, as far as solos and fi lls a re co ncerned,
is what you might calla !ittle o ld-fashio ned,
but that 's because he 's basically a snare
drummer and he hates to use toms.
CB: 1 can remember that, on a !ot of record-
ing dates in the '50s, all he used was a snare
drum, bass drum, hi-hat, and one ride cym-
bal.
JR: Yeah, particularly on all those Savoy
record dates . He'd just swing his ass off on
any recording that he did . Because of his
age and influence, he's the guy that Max
Roach and a lot of other drummers were
listening to when they were kids.
CB: Most musicologists consider him to be
the dadd y of bebop drumming.
JR: Yeah, pretty much. Historically, Kenny
Clarke-as mentioned in many books and
jazz encyclopedias-is given that position,
particularly fo r his off-beat independence
figures with his !eft hand and bass drum. 1
like a full-sounding set of drums and Klook
Ph oto by Tom Copi

MARCH 1985 27
• Rae continued from page 27
RUDIMENT nothing worse than listening to a drummer
play a 32nd-note concept on a bailad, while
the soloist is playing something lyrical. By
CITY the way, l'd like to mention that the type of
drumming we've been discussing is what
you might cal! "middle of the road," or the
by Chet Doboe bebop style of playing, and not the more
Contains over 250 avant-garde stylings or the impressionistic
school of playing as exemplified by Elvin
American, Swiss & 'The Jones and Ton y Williams .
New' Drum Rudiments. CB: ls there something that sorne drum-
Develops your chops & mers do that is a pet peeve of yours?
rhythm vocabulary. JR: Cymbal switching is something that 1
hear done by a lot of drummers who are
$7 .50 + 75<t P & H otherwise playing just fine. Sorne of them
DOBOE PUBLICATIONS will switch a cymbal in what 1 consider to be
427 Uniondale Ave. the wrong place. You don't switch cyq¡bals
in the middle of an eight-bar phrase. l'd
Uniondale, NY 11553 rather hear a consistent cymbal sound over
Write for Free Catalog a period of a chorus. lf you're going to
Dealer lnquiries Welcome switch cymbals, do it at the beginning of a
chorus.
CB: What about changing cymbals on the
bridge?
Ohio's Largest Selection JR: That's okay sometimes, particularly on
a bailad because of the slower tempos.
All Again, if you listen to the band from the
,. famous outside. there is a complete tonal coloration
brands that changes when yo u switch cymbals. l f
Great discount you're going to switch cymbals, you might
prices want to change the tonality to a higher
50 Sets on pitch, or you can change to a cymbal with
Display rivets in it. Also, yo u can play the hi-hat
where it is open ju st wide enough to let the
Where drummers serve drummers.
cymbals ring together.
Mam· hard to find parts in stock.
CB: ls that so the cvmbal s get a "sizzle"
lncluding Pre CBS - Rogers. Good
effect?
advice- great service for over 48
JR: Yeah. Drummers don't do that any-
years ... we ship anywhere quickly. more. 1 remember back in the early '50s,
Hauer Music 34 E. First when 1 started playing, that was considered
Davton, OH 45402 a very viable way of using the hi-hats.
513-222-2815 % ~ile off 1-75 CB: Many bebop drummers would sorne-
Bill Hauer, Percussion Manager times use that effect behind piano solos, and
for the beginnings and endings of tunes.
JR: Right. Also, drummers shouldn't be
afraid of switching brushes. Of course, it's
helpful if you have sorne brush technique,
SILENCER® particularly ifyou play them at medium and
up-tempos. Philly Joe Jones is probably
one of the best practitioners of that art
form, and so was Shelly Manne.
r Attach your pr~unt mailing lab~l hu~. or writ~ in your old addr~ss.
Pl~au includ~ custom~r cod~numbu.
The most needed acccssory ~ incc plastic drum
heads. (Bill Sc1arratti W/ BEATNIX)
T.he only way to mute and tune drum~ for perfect L ....J
pllch . (Alejo Poveda W/CHEVEREJ
For free facts sheet write or cal! : New Address
PETERSON PERCUSSION
P.O. BOX 504
NAME:
WORTH, IL 60482 ADDRESS: ________________________
(312) 599 7404
1 (800) 328 2081 CITY: ________ STATE _ _ _ _ ZIP ____
100
CB: Speaking of brushes, you have a
bizarre style of playing brushes. How did
you develop your unique technique for
playing them?
JR: !'m right-handed, and 1 hold the sticks
or brushes right-handed. However, when I
play brushes on the snare drum, 1 play the
beat with the left hand, and 1do the "swish"
with my right hand. 1 started doing that
when 1 was a kid, before 1 took drum les-
sons from George Stone. You see, 1 could
read a little music beca use of the piano les-
sons 1 had from my father, and because of
m y desire to play drums, 1 bought a copy of
the Gene Krupa Drum Method. Well, I
didn't know my left from my right very
well; 1 just looked at the pictures that
showed how to hold the sticks, and 1started
to hold them left-handed or backwards .
A while later, 1 was playing drums at a
band concert my father was conducting,
and one of the other drummers turned to
me and said, "Oh, you're left-handed ."
And 1 said, "No, !'m right-handed." Of
course, 1'm sitting there, calm as anything,
holding the st icks lefr-handed . Then he
said , "You're supposed to hold them the
other way." 1 replied calml y, "Oh, really?"
Anyway, 1 think that's partially the reaso n 1
play brushes the way that l do.
CB: In what other way~ do you define 1 1. ~
role of a drummer in an accompanying situ-
ation?
JR: l think it 's imperative that yo u be a
good time player, and in jazz situations, yo u
have to be ab le to swing the music. There
also has to be a certain amount of looseness
and fluidity to the music. Also, your playing
style should bend so that it matches the style
of the group you're in. For example , there
are sorne groups that swi ng with a four-t o-
the-bar feeling, others swing with a light er
feeling, and sorne swing to the 2/ 4 side. You
should be aware of those factors.
One of the main points 1 try to keep in
mind when playing the drums is that 1 try to
"psych out" the bass player. For instance,
does the bassist have a tendency to play on
top of the beat or underneath it? Sorne of
them, when playing in a certain range, pl ay
the time in a particular place. Sometime,,
when they get to the low end of the bass,
1
MARCH 19[; 5
 ~ Coll us ond their time will go a little under the beat. harmonic framework of the tune and, at rypes <
~~]~ we 'll prove M aybe that happens beca use ofthe fact that same time, yo u can check to see if the novas
~~
\"~
- ~~~
<
1tloyou the strings respond mo re slowly on the has changed. little more
1~ -~ lower end of that particu lar instrument. 1 think that the ability to keep time an integr~I
~~~~~~ ~~?~~
~ J) ~~< One of the
E ve n so me of rhe best players, when they're
startin g to go up the scale and use their
combinar ion of natural and acquired sk
One facet of playing time has to do wi
. rhythms, tt
bearing, as
~\ ~.:9 lorgest drum
thumb on the G <;tring, tend to get way on your attitude. For example , in a band sir ahead 4/4
"'- \ ( / shops on
./ theworld top of the beat. You've got to be aware o f tion, once the tune starts, the drummer is should be
WE BEAT MAILORDE R these tendencies on the part of bass players really tn charge. You ha ve to believe that CB: As
DEALS NATIONWIDE and yo u 've go t to balance them . At the yo u ha ve good time. 1f yo u don 't belie ve it con trol,
same ti me, you ca n't get on their case too then the rest of the band wo n't believe it. ' critcria to
The Drum Shop- Houston
heavy. Yo u don 't ha veto hit the bassis t o ver Another way yo u ca n think a bo ut lime- thi n~ . then
1511 W. Ala bam a St.,
the head with a stick, but yo u do want the keeping is to imagine that you ha ve a metro. JR: Yes.
Houston , TX 77098
rhythm to sett le in the ce nter. You should neme right between yo ur eyes go ing " tick musical
(713) 524-1577 ha ve that kind of co ntrol over the beat. Yo u tick, tick." If yo u drop a stick or the stooi should be
should be able to play on the dead center of falls apart-no matter what emergencies where you
the beat, on the "down" side without slow- arise-this little independent sense of time· rhen
The complete ing down, and on th e "up" side without keeps going during the course of that tune. backi ng
music store speeding up. So o nce you get to the point of keeping words,
in yo ur Of course, there are a lways variations, good time, you better start believing it, and
mail box particularly in a jazz group . The time and play Iike you believe it.
the music will sometimes center in the first C B: You're known for yo ur Iight touch and
Send $1 .00 four to eight bars, o r maybe it will settle on sensitivity in backing mu sicians in a variety
for catalog of musical circumstances. Do yo u ha ve any
the down side. Sometimes , on a particular
applied to
first arder
tempo, it might get exciting, and the time techniques that you can recommend to
will climb towards the hig h end . You're not drummers for developing a Iighter touch?
necessari ly looking for metronomic preci- JR: When I was with the Charlie Byrd trio , 1
Fire • Stage Effects • Disco Lights • Fog sion . developed-through my Latin playing-a
Machines • Stage Lighting designed for C B: The music has to be ab le to breathe. technique called "dead sticking ." This
musicians 41 Shore Orive JR : Yeah, sure. You can name sorne of the means that you play into the cymba! with
Huntington Bay
f'I:'I'I'J:.{ LT ~l ,\IC New York.11743 best groups in jazz who, on the basis of so me sort of press ure . Yo u use a wri st action
straight time , a re ridicu lous . As for speed- with no finger s in vo lved. You can only do it
ing tempos up, the old Osear P eterson trio up toa certain tempo; it's a little difficu lt on
used to climb the damn walls. That hap- real up-tempos. 1 developed this technique
pened in that band because of the prodi- because t he C harli e Byrd trio was acoustic
gious technique o f P ete rson , Herb Ellis, gui tar. amplified by the house m ic' and
and Ray Brown. The Art Blakey gro ups aco ustic bass. Now that is a bout as soft a
TRUSTED WORLDWIOE FOR OVER 50 YEARS! also used to have a tendency to speed u p. It group as anyone is go in g to play with. 1 still
didn 't take away from the swing or the basic had to play with intensity, but not the vol-
EA MES SLINGERLANO NORTH
GRETSCH SONOR OM PERC
groove, but it \\lo uld occasionally happen. ume o n t he sambas and the jazz tun es. Dead
LUDWIG TAMA MUSSER So metronomi c time is not necessa ril y the sti cki ng gives yo u a lo t of inte nsit y, and ;¡
PEARL YAMAHA DEAGAN
PREMIER DRUM WORKSHOP
crit eria. but yo u should always keep the best ca n cut down yo ur vo lume by almost two-
ZILDJIAN
ROGERS GONBCPS PAISTE possible ti m e yo u can. th irds when yo u 're really leaning into the
SIMMONS LATIN ?ERC SABIAN CB: Do yo u ha\·e any tec hniques that yo u cy:nbal. lt also cuts down the ove rtone;
GREAT PRICES, WE SH/P EVERYWHERE can reco mm end to drummers to improve qu ite a bit on cymbals . 1f yo u wish to
(203) 442-9600 their timekeeping ability? ex pand the vo lume as yo u 're playing, all
~ 20 Bank St. e New London, CT. 06320 JR: lf yo u're playing a sta ndard tune, you yo u do is loasen up your finge rs as you go
can sing the words to yo urself, or if it's an along, and befare you know it, yo u're play-
instrumental, yo u should have sorne recall ing full out. At the same time, don 't forget
SILENCE RCf0 of where the melody was when you played about controlling the vol u me with your feet
the first chorus. lf you sing the me lody, it on the bass drum and the hi-hat. They can
allows yo u to check your position within the be played loud or so fr. Of course, there are

NEW JERSEY PERCUSSION

The mo st needed accesso ry s in ce p lastic drum

heads. (Bi/1 Sciarratti W/ BEATN!X )
The onl y way lO mure and tune drums for perfect
(201 ) 625-8134
pitch. (Alejo Poveda W/CHEVERE) 50 West Main St.
For free fac ts sheet write or call: Dept. MD
PETERSON PERCUSSION Rockaway, NJ 07866
P.O. BOX 504 SENDFOR
WORTH, IL 60482 MONTHLY SPECIALS
(312) 599 7404
1 (800) 328 2081 "For Your Drum and Percussion Needs"

102 MARCH 1985

 ¡ ~; pes of Latin beats, like sambas and
· novas, where the bass drum should be
link more dominant because it's more of
· an integral part of the beat. On those
rhvthrn s, it should be heard but no t over-
b~arin g , as opposed to playing straight-
ahead 4/ 4 jazz time. In that situat ion, it
should be felt more than hea rd.
(8: .-\ s lon g as we are disc ussin g volume
con ' rvl. wou ld you say thal one of the best
cri1 c: 1a to use is, if yo u ca n ' t hear every-
th in·~. ¡hen you ' re playing too lo ud ?
JR: Y.:,. Yo u should hear the bandas a total
musical entity. The idea of volume control
should be a utomati c. 1r yo u get to a po in t
wh t:re yo u can 't hear so rn e of the notes,
then you're playing too loud. Or if you're
backing up a vocalist and you can't hear the
words, you're playing too loud. You ' re
alway s a lot better off being "waved up " in
ter ms o f volu me than being "waved down ."
You can alway s give it a little more if you
ha ve to come up.
One of the tough est things 1 find with m y
studen ts is that , when they a re playing soft
with their hands, their feet are still loud.
This is, of course, also a problem for the
experienced players.
CB: In ot her wo rds, in terms of volume, all
fo m limbs should be co nsi stent with eac h
ot! ,~ r.
JR; Defi nitely. Throug h teaching 1 carne
across this theory: It seems that , initially, we
learn the drumset as separate co mponents.
1111111@)))
PERCUSSION
PATENT
PENDING
• DC1000 HEAVY DUTY
HARDWARE
• CHAIN ORIVE PEDALS
• POWER BRACEO
HARDWARE
• ADJUST ABLE POWER
SPURS
• CHOICE OF BLACK·
WINE RED·SILVER-WHITE
s499~!!
DESIGNED & PRODUCED BY DRUM CITY
1-402-397·1060 1·214·438· 1581
Joe Voda's D'um Cí ty Granl's Drum Cíty
209 South 72nd Slreet 426 E. lrvíng
Omaha, NE 68114 lrvíng. TX 75060
tv;ARCH 1985
First we learn the snare drum, and then we Latin music . Fortunately for me, joining
add the bass drum, hi-hat, and expand to the Shearing band was probably one of the
the tom-toms. So it ends up that most greatest strokes of good fo rtune 1 ever had
drummers still think unconsciously of the in my career. Bassist Al McKibbon and
drumset in terms of separare components drummer Armando Peraza were still with
rather than a tot a l sound. lf you're a piano the band . Al is proba bl y one of the best
player, you don't think of the e as being Latín bass players aro und. When 1 jo ined
different from the DorE; it's a ll one instru- the band as a vibist, Bill Clarke was th e
ment. One of the areas 1 work on wi th my drummer. He was a swing type of Jrumm er
students is getting their minds to tell them ro who had worked with Duke, Lester Yo un g .
do the right thing . In other word s, getting an d other people of th ei r caliber, but he
them to hear the set as a total sou nd, and reall y was n' t into La tin. So George asked
not as toms, cymbal, snare drum and bass me if 1 would like ro pl ay timbales in th e
drum. group. My initial reaction was . "W hat are
As 1 memioned earlier. 1 ha ve the experi- timbales?" As it turned out, Armando had
ence of playing in front of rhythm sections, a set of brass-shell Leedy timbales, so 1
and 1 find that even sorne of the fine drum- learned to play on his set. He told me what
mers that l work with have sorne volume- beats to play behind him . For the first cou-
control problems. Sometimes , when they ple of months on the gig, 1 just used m y
are either backing a singer or vibraphone, a' right hand, even though 1 had enough coor-
drummer will be playing at a mezzo-jone dination to play the left hand. Later
leve!, and then the brea ks or fills will bejor- Armando and Tito Puente taught meto use
rissimo. When you're playing in front of a my left hand , rather than to use a stick on
drummer who does that, it's like getting the timbales . There's a "dead" stroke and
"zapped" out of the clear blue sky. there is an open stroke that you play with
CB: In other words, there should be more your fingers. That's the traditional method
consistency of volume leve!. of playing the instrument. 1 also learned
JR: Yes. lf yo u want to emphasize a musical from these guys a ll the basic Latin rhythm s
idea, it should be one notch up , and not anda sense of clave.
three notches up . CB: lsn't it true that even Latin players
CB: Would you relate your introduction ro don 't alway s agree on where the clave
Latin music.? should be placed on a particular tune?
JR: When l joined George Shearing in JR: You ' re right. 1 ha ve a great story that
1955, l didn ' t reall y know that much about dea1s with this particular point. All the tim e
16 x 22
5'12x14
16 x 16
11 X 13
10 x 12
EXTENDED
POWER
SHELLS
1·512·656·4785
Kírk Scotl's Drum City
10708 Perrin Beílel
San Antonio, TX 78217
103
 1 was on the road with George, ifthere was a
Steve Weiss Music
Writt: o r pho nc fo r f ree mai l o rt.l er ca talog.
tune that would require timbales, 1 would
play them. However, when we got into the
Lowest Prices Anywhere! studio, we had to retain the "Shearing
P .O . Bo ' ~0885 Phi laddph1a. P:\ 19 141
sound" (piano , vibes, and guitar] for the
215•324•4355 sake of the recordings. That meant that
215•329•1637 whenever we recorded, we'd hire additional
\1 \ S !UH WlJ
Latin percussionists . So one time, when we
were recording George's third album on
Capital, called Latin Escapade, we used
Doyouneed Ton y Martinez and Chico Columbo . On the
•
aonep1ece date, 1 had to learn the vi be parts because 1
hadn ' t been playing them on the road. So
>ek Maple Snare? we went into the studio with the two hired
vi1h Salid Brass Harct.vare and percussionists, and we had all the introduc-
Die Cast Rims tions and tunes worked out. We were play-
ing along, the hired players were following
JLE & COOLEY CO. along nicely, and it was coming out real
St. . Granville, MA 01034 good . Then we got to this one tune that had
Established 1854 a rhythmic introduction and then went into
or Cal! for Dealer Nearest You.
the melody. We did the intro, and just got
413-562-9694 into the melody, when suddenly the two
'aler lnquiries Welcome hired guys carne to a screeching halt! One
said, "Oh my God, the clave is different on
the introduction than it is on the melody."
The other guy was saying, "1 feel the clave
here, and 1 don 't feel it there ." McKibbon
lle )t!f'o ·ott( and Peraza were saying, "We hear it here."
':br~~~ t>e, And the four of them real! y gol into it. As it
turned out, we had to change the rhythmic
ORUMS SOLO BY A ORUMMER emphasis on the introduction just to make
these guys happy.
CB: So there really isn't a mutually agreed
107 Broadway upon placement for the clave?
Normal, IL 61761 JR: At best, it's a tricky proposition. Even
with al! the Latin experience !'ve had, when
( 3 09 ) 45 2-0469 l play with Latin groups here in the Bay
Area , 1 put the ctave wherever they want to
put it. But once you have the clave estab-
lished , it has ro stay in that direction al! the
wayt hrou gh thetune.
CB: A fter Sh e:uin g, what other Latin
bands did you play with ?
J R: A couple o t years after I left Shearing, 1
joined the Herbie Mann band. Most of the
time I was with Herbie we had Carlos
liways a sale on new & used "Patato" Valdez on congas, and Jose Man-
Jms, cymbals, stands, ped- gua! on bongos-a couple of great Latin
cases, etc. musicians. Later, they left and were
replaced by Ray Mantilla and Ray Barretto.
uild custom 7" x 14"
le Snare Drums. ·
After Herbie, when 1 first joined Cal's band,
Mongo Santamaria was still in the band. Six
8) months after l joined the band Mongo left
and was replaced by Wilfredo Vincente,
~1755
who's a good player but he's obscure. Then
when Wilfredo left, Bill Fitch carne in, and
he was a phenomenon in the sense that he
:>king For TAMA ? was not Latin. Finally, Armando Peraza
joined Cal for four years and that gave me a
~chstar Electronic Drums total of six years on the road with him.
TS 306 TS 200
CB: So you've been lucky enough to work
tstar
with sorne of the best Latin percussionists in
1perstar
the world.
1perialstar
JR: Yes, they are among the best in the busi-
vingstar
ness. 1 played in front of these people as a
3.rdware
vibist, and played timbales with tLem
trts And
strictly as a backup player. Being able to
~ces sories
W SHIPPING!!!
play with them is about as good a break as
Throughbred Mus ic's Percussio n Un lim 11 ed
2204 E. HIUsbrougn Ave .. l ampa, FL 336 10
any gringo's going to get. l'm no soloist on
813.237.5597 timbales, panicularly with those musicians
FLO AIOA 'S LA RGEST M USIC S TOA E
on the bandstand.
CB: In the late '60s, you wrote a book
The Latin Cuide For Drummers.
prompted you to write the book?
JR: Publisher Henry Adler prompted me
write the book. A few years earlier, ¡
written a vibes book for him. He
already published the Humberto tYHlr,.1 ..."'
book, which is still a standard work
Latin drumming, but he wanted someth
a little more modern that applied Latín
rhythms to the drumset. It seems that he
was aware of the type of Latin drumming 1
was doing with Cal Tjader at the time.
1 did the manuscript, Henry had a
of mind and he declined to publish it. So
next time ~ was in L.A., 1 took the
script to Bob Yeager at the
Drum Shop. At the time, he was just
ing Try Publications, and he decided
publish it forme . Over the years, it has
slightly revised and it's in its second
ing. For the type of book it is, it has
pretty well.
CB: Could we discuss the reasoning
the book?
JR: Well, the reasoning behind the
was really Henry Adler's idea. Latin drum-
ming in the context of Cuban, Puerto
Rican, and most Carribean music is not
intended for the drumset. Aside from reg-
gae, which is not pure Latin, bossa nova is·
the only legitimare Latin rhythm that, in the
first place. was intended for the drumset.
Al! the other beats are intended for multiple
drummers in percussion sections . When I
was with Cal, I was developing a method of
pla ying Latin rhythms with as muc h
authenticit y as possible on a drumset. That
was because, when Armando was in the
band, he would play congas and bongos. So
l had to take care of the other percussion. 1
too k away the snare drum and put timbales
behind the drumset. Then l' d stand ro play
the timbales and the rest of the set. In this
way, when accents could come up, l'd uti-
lize the cymbals. Sometimes l'd play a
mambo beat with my left hand on the cow-
bell, and at the same time l'd double it with
my right hand on the cymbal. Later 1
started playing the bass drum following the
bass line of the tune. l developed this
method of playing Latin music out of neces-
sity to give the music and the band a fuller
sound . lt was easy to write the book because
it was based on what l was doing Oil a day-
to-day basis on the job.
CB: What are sorne of the common mis-
takes that drummers make when perform-
ing Latin music?
JR: From a Latin point of view, the most
common mistake is that American drum·
mers tend to put in too many fills and
change the basic beat. When you're work·
ing with a conga and other percussion, you
only play your part; you can make little
changes, a note here and there, but you
can't change the basic rhythm. Jazz drum·
mers, even though they may have a good
Latin concept, tend to think in terms of fills
MARCH 1985
 if tht!Y were playing jazz music. Latin
have got to be more solid and set-
because there 's more sy ncopation going
. Also , when yo u're working in a multi-
ple-p.:rcus sion sectio n , there are mor e
th in gs that are slotted around what you're
doing. Yo u ha veto play your part in rhe cor-
rect place ,o that there is that space on either
sid ~ u!" ·;our beat fo r that bongo part, cow-
bell bc;.lt . or whatever.
Aho. American drummers should be
aw ar~ of their tonality. That means being
aware of when to use the cymbals, the sides
o{ che roms, the closed hi-hat, and the cow-
bell . Those types of effects are impo rtant,
and they are best worked out in the arrange-
' men t, depending on the type of tune it is
and who is soloing. If yo u 're working with a
conl!:l drummer, you should try to stay
awa;· fro m the toms, because you don't
wan t to get into the conga's tonality.
Armando Peraza showed me a way of play-
ing a mambo on a set that works very well
with conga drummers. With the snares in
the "up" position on your snare drum, and
playing with both hands in unison, you play
• the mambo beat on the snare drum and
cym bals. At the same time, you play a vari-
at icn o f the bass figure on the bass drum;
the w ne of the bass drum will be below the
conga drum. What 1 usually play o n the
bass drum is a "spacy" clave figure. That
means 1 play only the two notes in the sec-
ond bar and 1 don't play anything on the
PAUL JAFFE . Mgr
LARGEST ANO MOST COMPLETE
ORUM ANO PERCUSSJON SHOP
IN THE SOUTH
• WE CARRY A~L MAJOR BRANOS
o CALL ANO COMPARE OUR PRI CES
• IMMEOIATE OELIVERY
o CASES ANO SMALL PAR TS
o COMPLETE PERCUSSION LI BRARY
• RENTALS
• VISA & MASTER CHARGE ACCEPTED
bass drum on the first bar. It's a simple bass attention . In Latín music, you and the bass
drum figure, but it's solid. player have to lock together.
CB: Who in Latín music would you recom- CB: Before we finish, is there anything else
mend that drummers listen to and appreci- you'd like to stress?
ate? JR: What we've reall y st ressed in this inter-
JR: There are probably a lot of new people view is musicalit y. That is what we're talk-
around that 1 don 't ha ve any firsthand ing about when we're discussing the drum -
knowledge of, but the individual 1 listen to mer as an accompanist. The drummer is
is Tito Puente. He is still considered the also the person who gives the music that
absolute monarch of Latin music, not only extra push when it's called for. Lester Youn g
because of his natural talent and his won- always used to say that the only way to
derful swing feel ing as a soloist , but also really play a tune is to kn ow the words. If
because of his total musicianship. He is a you're working with a vocalist, then you' ll
graduate of the Manhattan School of Music know that there 's only a certain tempo that
and most of che arrangements for his big makes those wo rd s inrelligible. For si ngers,
band were done by him. He plays a variety in most cases, it's a question of mood and
of instruments and he's a very good Latín being able to articulate the words . Also,
vibe player. There's no way around it; he's you've got to be able to play a combination
about as good as you're going to hear in ol' volumes and tempos. Total musicality-
Latin music . that's what makes a good accompanist. ;f
CB: How important is it to be familiar with
not only percussion, but what the other
instruments are doing in a Latin band?
JR: Very importan t. You should familiari ze
yourself with the patterns that the other
instruments are playing in the rhythm sec-
tion . For example, you should Jearn sorne
of the basic Latin piano patterns , so you
will know what kind of complementary fig-
ures to play with them . In particular, you
should be ver y aware of the bass pi ayer. On
any of m y gigs, whether it's jazz or Latín , 1
lock in with the bass . Unless something goes
wrong, it always see ms to hold most of my