HEAT TREATING

JUNE 2017
CONFIRMED

CONFIRMED MINUTES
JUNE 05 – 08, 2017
BERLIN, GERMANY

These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a
subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation
from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.

MONDAY, 05-JUN-2017 to THURSDAY, 08-JUN-2017

1.0 OPENING COMMENTS –CLOSED

Heat Treating Task Group (HTTG) Chair Tom Norris made opening comments and HTTG
members introduced themselves.

1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check –CLOSED

The HTTG meeting was called to order at 9:00 a.m., 05-Jun-2017.

It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion
of the meeting.

A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:

Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME

Olaf Adam Premium AEROTEC GmbH

* Arie Ben Dov Israel Aerospace Industries
Piotr Bienia UTC Aerospace (Goodrich)
Elizabeth Chapman Triumph Group
Eswara Naidu Chikkala Honeywell Aerospace
* Craig Clasper Spirit AeroSystems
* Karen Dannis BAE Systems
* Martin Day Honeywell Aerospace
Luigi Di Martino The Boeing Company
* Andreas Elbs Liebherr-Aerospace Lindenberg GmbH
* Mark Emerson Rolls-Royce
Ron Galley GE Aviation
* Greg Haataja Bell Helicopter Textron
* Peter Hammarbo GKN Aerospace Sweden AB
Daniel Hoft Premium Aerotec GmbH
* David Isenberg Parker Aerospace Group
* David Knack Eaton, Aerospace Group
* Marc-André Lefebvre Héroux-Devtek Inc.
* Stefan Lemberger Airbus Helicopters Germany
* Hongping Li COMAC
Stella Ma The Boeing Company
* Doug Matson The Boeing Company
* John Merritt Lockheed Martin Corporation
* Alessandro Miglio Leonardo Helicopters
Martin Miller Héroux Devtek
Juan Antonio Molina Airbus Defence and Space
* Tom Norris UTC Aerospace (Goodrich) Chairperson
Luis Gustavo Pacheco Embraer SA
* Eddy Pham Northrop Grumman
* Marco Luigi Poletto Leonardo S.p.A. Aircraft Division
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CONFIRMED

* Earl Pruett Lockheed Martin Corporation

* Sunder Rajan Raytheon Company Secretary
* Alexandre Richez Airbus Commercial Aircraft
* Josefa Rodriguez Airbus Defence and Space
* Salvatore Santangelo UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand)
* Simon Scott BAE Systems - MAI
* Mariusz Stanczyk Lockheed Martin Corporation
* Marc Taillandier Airbus Helicopters
Takayuki Takahashi Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
Stanley Trull Honeywell Aerospace
* Cyril Vernault SAFRAN Group Vice Chairperson
* Tom Wilson Bombardier Aerospace
* Grzegorz Wryk Rolls-Royce
* Mark Zelle Pratt & Whitney

Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME

Coman Anca Romaero SA

Richard Aylward TT Electronics
Wolfgang Bernmeister ZF Friedrichshafen AG
Angela Bornemann Aluminiumwerk Unna AG
Andrey Christyakov OAO KUMZ
Izidor Costea Romaero SA
* Joshua Crockett Ellison Surface Technologies
* Vivian Delaney Haynes International Inc.
Markus Fuchsmann Otto Fuchs KG
Arie Goldstien Blades Technology Ltd
* Jonathan Gonzalez Solar Atmospheres Proxy for Edward
Engelahrd
Alex Goodman Hauck Heat Treatment
Rudolf Graf Böhler Schmiedetechnik GmbH & Co KG
Mesut Guzel Tusaş Engine Industry
Christoph Henkel AMAG rolling
Luis Herrera CPP-Port Hueneme
Reinhard Hornow Arconic Fastening Systems & Rings
Ian Jenner Vacuum Furnace Engineering
Jurgen Hartinger Liebherr Aerospace
* Alexander Klyuch Blades Technology Ltd
Hasan Köse ZF Friedrichshafen AG
Günter Krauss RUAG Aerostructures
Terry Layton Aluminiumwerk Unna AG
Gilles Leroy AUBERT & DUVAL
Johannes Martin Arconic Tital
* Stuart Mellor Wyman Gordon Ltd
Melanie Metzger Liebherr Aerospace
André Moeller N3 Engine Overhaul Services GmbH &
Co. KG
Anne Pascale Moiroux Aubert Duval
Andreas Mühlenbein Arconic Tital
Danijelo Nedic ZF Friedrichshafen AG
* Ken Nelson Continental Heat Treating
* Michael Niedzinski Constellium
Nick Olpin Wallwork Cambridge
Cornelia Ortiz CPP-Port Hueneme
* Matthias Otter VDM Metals
 HEAT TREATING
JUNE 2017
CONFIRMED

Yasemin Ozkan TEI TUSAS ENGINE INDUSTRIES INC.

Robert Peters R Peters Consulting, LLC.
Francesco Pontone Leonardo Aerostructures
Piotr Pudelko Arconic
Tee Rassieur Paulo
* Stan Revers Senior Aerospace - Thermal Engineering
Stan Revers Straight Aero Engineering Limited
* Brian Reynolds Arconic
Rainer Ricken Zollern GmbH & Co
Simone Robinson Arconic
Igor Rudman Turbine Jet
Dikla Samoocha Turbine Jet
Irina Sarantseva OAO KUMZ
Jan Schwiontek Leitstritz
Moshe Shaket Cyclone elbit systems
Frank Siewert Claudius Peters Projects GmbH
Klaus Sommerauer Böhler Schmiedetechnik GmbH + Co&Kg
Rudolf Sporer Böhler Edelstahl
Christian Stoeckler Zollern GmbH & Co kG
* Wilfried Weber PFW Aerospace GmbH
* Mark Willis Arconic
* Nicholas Wood Arconic
Adam Yates Wallwork HT

PRI Staff Present

Mark Burval
Marcel Cuperman
Robert Hoeth

1.2 Safety Information – CLOSED

The Safety Information was reviewed. If there are any emergencies, contact a PRI Staff person
immediately.

1.3 Review Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct – CLOSED

The Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct was briefed to the Heat Treating Task Group (HTTG)

1.4 Present the Antitrust Video – CLOSED

Marcel Cuperman briefed the HTTG on the policy of PRI expressly prohibiting video or audio
recording of HTTG meetings unless formal approval is received from all attendees and recorded
in the HTTG meeting minutes.

The PRI Antitrust video was played for the attendees.

1.5 Review Agenda – CLOSED

Agenda was reviewed in detail by the Chairperson.

2.0 REVIEW DELEGATION STATUS – CLOSED

The HTTG reviewed the tfrm-07 for delegated Staff Engineers.

Delegation data was reviewed – All reviewers met requirements in OP 1115 for maintaining
delegation (≥ 10% Oversight, ≥ 90%concurrence, ≥ 10 audits reviewed in the last 12 months).
 HEAT TREATING
JUNE 2017
CONFIRMED

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Cyril Vernault to continue to delegate Anne
Allen. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Tom Norris to continue to delegate Jerry Aston.
Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Tom Norris to continue to delegate Marcel
Cuperman. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Cyril Vernault to continue to delegate Rob
Hoeth. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Sunder Rajan and seconded by Mark Emerson to continue to delegate Mark
Burval. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

There was some discussion on the procedure for requesting Task Group Resolution. Mark
Emerson made a motion for the Staff Engineer to gather data on the frequency of requests for
Task Group Resolution and discuss this information as an agenda item in the Thursday closed
session. This motion was seconded by Cyril Vernault and it passed.

Data not available by Thursday, will retrieve data for review in October

ACTION ITEM: PRI to provide data regarding frequency of Task Group Resolution. (Due Date: 01-
Oct-2017).

3.0 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY – CLOSED

3.1 +/-4 NCRs

PRI Staff provided data on audits for the past four months where there had been +/- 4 NCR swing
between audits. The HTTG will continue to collect this +/- 4 data and it will be monitored by the
Auditor Consistency Team (ACT) which will provide reports and recommendations back to the
HTTG to help direct auditor observation priority and provide reports and recommendations back
to the HTTG. This data will be included in a new comprehensive rating tool to allow HTTG to
better monitor auditor consistency. Additions to the new comprehensive rating tool were
discussed. Auditor attendance to Auditor Training and last observation conducted.

Motion made by Earl Pruett to add the two columns mentioned above, add explanation to the
columns which are already there and release the document as soon as possible. Motion
Seconded by Mark Emerson. Motion passed 24 to 0.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to provide additional information in the new rating tool and
distribute. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

Another item which needs to be considered is HTTG Observer Availability. Staff engineer will
provide additional information of forthcoming audits well in advance to enable HTTG Members to
select an observation audit. This data will be made available on Thursday 7-Jun-2017. (See item
46).

Also discussed was a method of keeping the HTTG aware of changes in the Auditor working
status.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to develop an effective procedure to notify TG members about the status
of Auditors. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

3.2 Auditor Variation Data

Marcel Cuperman presented Auditor Consistency data, which consisted of various data points
including the average NCRs for all Auditors combined, and the average number of NCRs by
 HEAT TREATING
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CONFIRMED

Auditor from 2012 through May 2017. The average of all NCRs has not changed significantly
since 2015, however there has been a drop in the average NCRs from 2014 to 2015 from 4.26 to
3.75. New data with respect to Major NCR’s issued in 2017 was also reviewed.

Top ten NCRs (Auditor Consistency Report) for the period Dec 2016 through May 2017 was
presented by Marcel Cuperman.

3.3 OP 1117 Standard Data Set

The standard data set results from 2016 were presented by the Staff Engineer.

4.0 AUDITOR OBSERVATIONS - CLOSED

There were six Auditor Observation forms reviewed for observations conducted since the
February 2017 meeting. Staff Engineer and Supplier Feedback were presented. Issues discussed
are listed below:

Observation Report was discussed in detail. Auditor wrote 10 NCRs within the limited audit
duration (only two full days and two short days).

Auditor Observation revealed a customer flow down requirement which was not adequately
addressed by the auditor. An observer mentioned that the auditor missed some issues, but they
were not noted by the observer. The problem may be due to a lack of specific guidelines for the
observer to report all of the misses by the auditor.

Audit 180737 was observed and reported by Observer. Initially supplier did not have all of their
documents in English for review. Also, much of the (internal) job audit information was claimed to
be “Proprietary” and not furnished to the Auditor. This places an added burden on the auditor to
do a thorough audit which has 11 Checklists.

Tabled item to go over whether any guidelines for observers should be added.

ACTION ITEM: Doug Matson to provide list of recommendations for audit observer. (Due Date:
01-Oct-2017).

Discussed options to improve Subscriber participation.

5.0 2017 AUDITOR CONFERENCE – CLOSED

Determine presentations to be given at the 2017 Auditor Conference in October 2017. Items
discussed included:

The +/- 4 NCR Presentation will center on the new spread sheet “rating system”. The data will be
shared taking out the Auditors’ names. Motion made by Earl Pruett and seconded by Cyril
Vernault in favor of NOT showing the names when showing the spread sheet to auditors. Motion
passed 17 to 4.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to prepare new rating system report without names. (Due Date: 01-
oct-2017).

Training Criteria for Auditor.

Group Discussion Topics were reviewed.

Special situations leading to changes in the Scope (Equipment, People, Hardware) needs to be
discussed. Tabled Subject: This needs to be worked on at the October 2017 Nadcap Meeting in
Pittsburgh, PA. USA. Topic not ready for Auditor Conference.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add to October 2017 Agenda topic of changes in scope. (Due
Date: 01-Jul-2017).
 HEAT TREATING
JUNE 2017
CONFIRMED

Discussion on Materials Testing Laboratories (MTL) Memorandum Of Understanding (MOU) for

micro hardness and metallography – Consensus was that best path would be for the HTTG to
write their own checklist for these tests. Heat Treating uses this data to confirm “Process Control”
whereas MTL is using these for External Laboratory Accreditations.

Tom Norris will send out a chart with points to each HTTG Member to explain HTTG position that
we need our own Testing Requirements. Each HTTG Member should review with their MTL TG
Counterpart or their Nadcap Management Council (NMC) representative to determine whether
consensus can be reached. Tabled until Thursday 8-Jun-2017.

6.0 GOOGLE CHAT SUBJECTS AND DISCUSSION - CLOSED

A Summary of Google Chat Subjects since February 2017 was presented by Marcel Cuperman.

1. Load Thermocouple Heat Sink Difference between Temperature Uniformity Survey (TUS)
and Production – Thinnest or Thickest Section, which should be the basis for
determination of the heat sink size. The differences are driven by AMS 2750 vs AMS
2769 requirements for achieving the desired uniformity.

o HTTG Response: The supplier can use both. Perhaps some verbiage needs to
be added for clarification. Pyrometry  TUS Thinnest (not thicker than half an
inch); Job Audit  Production  Thickest (requirement driven by the heat
treating specification) Cyril Vernault to write an Advisory.

ACTION ITEM: Cyril Vernault to write advisory regarding Heat Sinks. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

2. Supplier using polynomial equation to determine correction factors. Question of using the
mathematic value shall insure that the value is correct.

o HTTG Response: The question of using the value outside the range arose
because of the error in the calculation of the polynomial at the facility. Correcting
the error should have fixed the issue.

3. Should Initial TUS be required if a furnace is relocated?

o HTTG Response: YES, specification refers to any furnace modification or

adjustment that could have altered the temperature uniformity characteristics of
the furnace. Common sense, specifically for a brick furnace.

4. Calibration of Viscosity Measurement on Glycol (AMS2770) Refer to ASTM D445

viscosity test on Glycol.

o HTTG Response: Auditor misunderstanding. The specification clearly defines the

procedure. Action Item: Doug Matson will make a presentation on this subject.

ACTION ITEM: Doug Matson to prepare a presentation regarding Viscosity testing of Glycol. (Due
Date: 01-Oct-2017).

5. Calibration and instrumentation of equipment for chilling PH steels. The time at

temperature is not defined in specification.

o HTTG Response: For PH Steel the martensitic transformation is diffusion less.

Therefore, time at temperature is NOT required. But the supplier had an internal
procedure which required a long hold at the temperature. So, this was being
violated. The real question is whether a recorder is required. A temperature
sensor or a contact pyrometer can be used as long as it is calibrated. However, if
 HEAT TREATING
JUNE 2017
CONFIRMED

an internal procedure requires a hold time, that must be shown as an objective

evidence with a recorder.

6. Preparing for an upcoming NADCAP Audit. If the supplier identifies an Internal Corrective
Action Required (CAR), should the NADCAP auditor write an Non-Conformance Report
(NCR) against it?

o HTTG Response: Reference is made to Audit Advisory 16-003. The Internal

CAR should be “addressed” (does not have to be completed). However, if they
violated the due diligence requirement of 16-003, and did not complete the pre-
audit requirement, there should be an NCR. There was discussion on whether
the NADCAP auditor should pursue other NCRs at the supplier to determine if
there is a systemic issue. This Advisory 16-003 should be discussed thoroughly
in October Auditor Training.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add topic HT AA16-003 to October Training Agenda. (Due Date:
01-Jul-2017).

7. Calibration of Oil Quench TC J-4488 Issue:

o HTTG Response: Violation of calibration of monitoring T/C (200-2200 vs actual

usage 60-160) and extended use of resident T/C as the System Accuray Test
(SAT) sensor. There should be two minor NCRs.

8. Alternate SAT methodology. Waive requirement of Alt SAT on Recording T/Cs?

o HTTG Response: Calibration of Recoding T/C and frequency of replacement of

Load T/C cannot be used to justify waiver of Alt SAT on recording T/Cs based on
the current revison of AMS 2750. Supplier is in violation of AMS 2750 (current
revision). Perhaps this procedure may be compliant to the next revision of AMS
2750

9. SAT on controlling and recording system with electronic instrument. The current Advisory
16-002 addressed only Calibration and not SAT.

o HTTG Response: Action Item, Doug Matson-- need an advisory for SAT on use
of electronic instruments; it was decided to combine this SAT recommendation
with the existing advisory 16-002.

ACTION ITEM: Doug Matson to revise AA 16-002 to address the need for SAT on use of electronic
instruments. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

7.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS & VCA DATA – CLOSED

The Staff Engineers presented the Audit Failure Data by sector and in total. Failed audits for 2017
is 3.3%.

In 2017 there were 2 Verification of Corrective Action audits (VCA) performed.

8.0 APPEAL ANALYSIS & POSSIBLE APPEAL – CLOSED

In 2017 there have been 6 appeals presented to the HTTG.

New appeal discussed, appeal of merit for supplier on 18-month merit since 2005 (Ref Audit No’s
172301/153266). Based on OP 1111 Section 4.5 the Main and as Satellite Facility receive the
same merit. Motion to extend them to 18 months from current 12 months with a maximum of 18
months on the next audit, made by Tom Norris and Seconded by Earl Pruett. Votes were 14 Yes
and 5 No. Motion Passed.
 HEAT TREATING
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9.0 LAPSED ACCREDITATION – CLOSED

None.

10.0 INCOMPLETE SCOPE OF ACCREDITATION – CLOSED

Audit 167988, supplier did not have all the equipment needed to satisfy the Scope. The Scope is
listed in the Qualified Manufacturers List (QML). If the equipment is required for proper heat
treatment of the product, an NCR shall be written.

11.0 AUDIT EFFECTIVENESS – CLOSED

Subject discussed: How do the suppliers find out whether the lab they are using is accredited or
not? Is this issue audited? It is believed that this issue is not being audited consistently. Item to
be added to auditor training.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add lab accreditation to auditor training. (Due Date: 01-Jul-
2017).

12.0 MTL MOU, TEST CODES – CLOSED

Marcel Cuperman discussed a proposed revision to the current MOU with MTL regarding the
listing of the new test codes. No action taken at this time.

13.0 AUDIT ALLOCATION – CLOSED

Review Audit Allocation for July Through October 2017

Audit Allocations were made up through 31-Oct-2017. Any audits that do not have two reviewers
will be assigned by HTTG Secretary, Sunder Rajan.

14.0 HT-STSTG – OPEN

See HT-STSTG minutes posted on www.eauditnet.com > Resources > Documents > Public
Documents > Heat Treating > HTSTSTG.

Only Suppliers and Staff Engineers are allowed to participate.

Subscribers are welcome to observe.

1.0 OPENING COMMENTS –OPEN

Heat Treat Task Group (HTTG) Chair Tom Norris made opening comments and HTTG members
introduced themselves.

1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check – OPEN

1.2 Safety Information – OPEN

The Safety Information was reviewed. If there are any emergencies, contact a PRI Staff person
immediately.

1.3 Review Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct – OPEN

The Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct was briefed to the Heat-Treating Task Group (HTTG)
 HEAT TREATING
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1.4 Present the Antitrust Video – OPEN

Marcel Cuperman briefed the HTTG on the policy of PRI expressly prohibiting video or audio
recording of HTTG meetings unless formal approval is received from all attendees and recorded
in the HTTG meeting minutes.

The PRI Antitrust video was played for the attendees.

1.5 REVIEW AGENDA – OPEN

Agenda was reviewed in detail by the Chairperson.

1.6 ACCEPTANCE OF MEETING MINUTES - FEBRUARY 2017 MEETING – OPEN

February 2017 Meeting Minutes were reviewed in detail by Tom Norris. Motion made by Mark
Emerson and seconded by Tom Norris to accept the February 2017 meeting minutes as written.
Motion passed.

15.0 TASK GROUP TUTORIAL – OPEN

Marcel Cuperman presented the HTTG Tutorial in detail.

A microphone is available for anyone who would like to use it. Speak clearly, do not dismiss
people’s opinions, emotional and off topics should be avoided.

The HTTG reviewed the current Subscriber Matrix.

16.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

17.0 CLOSED MEETING REPORT OUT – OPEN

Tom Norris highlighted the main items discussed during the Closed Meeting on Monday, 5-Jun-
2017.

18.0 REVIEW THE RAIL – OPEN

The Rolling ACTION ITEM List (RAIL) was reviewed by Marcel Cuperman.

For specific details, please see the current (HTTG) Rolling ACTION ITEM List posted at
www.eAuditNet.com, under Public Documents/Heat Treating.

19.0 OP 1117 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY SUB-TEAM REVIEW – OPEN

The HTTG reviewed the OP 1117 requirements for which audits can be observed. Cyril Vernault
presented the new tool developed by the subteam factoring in the various auditor metrics .These
factors will be given appropriate (predetermined) weighting and rate the auditors. This data will
then be used to help identify the auditors to be observed, in conjunction with the OP requirement
for every auditor to be observed at a minimum of every 3 years. Subscribers need to volunteer to
observe all identified auditors.

20.0 REPORT OUT ON PILOT TESTING OF CALIBRATION FORM – OPEN

Mark Burval presented feedback from suppliers who have tested the calibration form. A number
of suppliers are still working and have yet to provide feedback. So far no supplier has had any
technical disagreement with the form. But a list of program issues, “bugs”, were identified. These
bugs will be corrected prior to publishing.
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HTTG agreed to post and make the form available for general supplier use, with the condition that
use of this form does not absolve the supplier of the responsibility of maintaining a system of
Pyrometry Compliance. The form is merely an indicator (a warning) in case something appears to
be out of calibration and whether product can be processed.

21.0 AC7101/11 FOR FASTENERS – OPEN

For suppliers of fasteners, if there is sufficient interest, HTTG can set up an MOU with MTL to
perform a Heat Treating audit in conjunction with AC7101/11. No interest was raised by those in
attendance.

22.0 HT-STSTG REPORT OUT – OPEN

The HT-STSTG report was presented by Wilfried Weber.

Wilfried Weber introduced the Alternate SAT Reporting Form. This form also looks like the
“Instrument Calibration Form”; designed that way to provide familiarity to the user. Wilfried Weber
needs to check that the frequency of Alt SAT should be chosen consistent with the furnace class.
Wilfried Weber demonstrated the functionality of the form and how it is made easier by using the
Standard Instrument Calibration Form. Requested a change to the “Quality Approval” to clarify
that it is “Internal Quality Approval”. Electronic Signatures can be implemented by the user at his
discretion, by verifying and validating the security requirement. It should be noted that based on
discussion this form will be updated in order to address the need of a re-check of previous SAT
difference calculations when a new error of the system instrument+wire is obtained.

The standard SAT form is also being designed and Wilfried Weber thinks he will be able to
demonstrate that form at the October 2017 Nadcap Meeting in Pittsburgh, PA. USA. The use of
these forms does not absolve the supplier of the responsibility of maintaining a system of
Pyrometry Compliance. The form is merely an indicator (a warning) in case something appears to
be out of calibration and whether product can be processed

23.0 AUDITOR ADVISORIES – OPEN

Auditor Advisories issued from February 2017 to date were reviewed.

17-003 Emphasized that any Third-Party Procedure pertaining to work done at the supplier facility
shall be reviewed by the supplier. If supplier does not review the procedure an NCR will be
issued. Suppliers own procedure is acceptable if it is Revision Controlled and provided to the
Third-Party Service Provider. In this case no NCR will be issued.

17-004 Hardness and Conductivity Hardness Standard Calibration, Requirements for the use of
the V Anvil.

Proposed AA 17-xxx Recording, Monitoring and Controlling Instrument Calibration outside of the
furnace operating temperature range, was presented. Issues were identified; The calibration of
the sensors shall be included. Also, the advisory needs to clearly state that this applies ONLY in
cases when the furnace is operated outside the qualified operating range.

ACTION ITEM: Cyril Vernault and Martin Day to re-write the advisory regarding Recording,
Monitoring and Controlling Instrument Calibration. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

24.0 REVIEW OF PROCEDURE CHANGES – OPEN

Review Any Changes to General Operating Procedures since the February 2017 meeting in New
Orleans, LA., USA.

OP 1105 Para 4.1.3 has been revised to require the self-audit to be uploaded into eAuditNet.
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Re-numbered 4.1.4 as 4.1.3.2 and revised the text to require NCR to be written if self-audit is not
provided as required.

OP 1108 complete re-write, including record of pre-audit completion, clarified expectation of the
auditor.

Authorizing auditor to perform subsequent accreditation audit after a pre-audit.

OP 1110 Audit Failure review conditions

OP 1114 TG Operation

HTTG will need to review involvement of suppliers in Auditor Interviews.

OP 1119 No Change

OP 1121 Clarifications.

Review Any Changes to HT Specific OP 1114 and OP 1116 Appendices since the February 2017
Nadcap Meeting in New Orleans, LA., USA.

None

25.0 HTTG PYROMETRY GUIDE UPDATE – OPEN

Changes to the HTTG Pyrometry Guide - None.

26.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

27.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

28.0 SSC PRESENTATION – OPEN

Postponed until Wednesday, 7-Jun-2017. Supplier will participate on Tuesday, 06-Jun- 2017and
will present the information on Wednesday 07-Jun-2017.

29.0 VOTING MEMBER UPDATES & COMPLIANCE WITH VOTING REQUIREMENTS - OPEN

Data was presented by Marcel Cuperman

Meeting Attendance and Member Updates:

Voting Member Updates

First Name Surname Company Position: Meetings Attended

(new / updated (Month/Year)
role)

John Merritt Lockheed Martin Subscriber Jun-2016 Feb-2017

Corp. Alternate Voting
Member (ALT
UVM)
(Updated)
Alessandro Miglio Leonardo S.p.a.- Subscriber
Helicopters Voting Member Feb-2016 Jun-2016
(UVM)
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(New)

Fabrizio Quadrini LeonardoS.p.a. Subscriber

(Helicopters) Alternate Voting Feb - 2016
Member (ALT
UVM)
(Updated)
Elizabeth Chapman Triumph Group Subscriber
Voting Member Feb-2017 Jun-2017
(*UVM)
(New)
Ron Galley GE Aviation Subscriber
Member Jun-2017 None
(New - No voting
rights)
Salvatore Santangelo UTC Aerospace Subscriber
(Hamilton Voting Member Feb-2017 Jun-2017
Sundstrand) (*UVM)
(New)
Stanley Revers Senior Aerospace Supplier Voting
Thermal Eng Member (SVM) Oct-2016 Feb-2017
(New)
Ian Napleton RHH Franks (New Supplier
Milton Ltd) Member (New - None None
No Voting
Rights)
Mesut Guzel TEI-TUSAS Engine Supplier Voting
Industries Member (SVM) Jun-2017

Jonathan Gonzalez Solar Atmospheres Supplier

Alternate Voting Oct-2016 Feb-2017
Member (Alt.
SVM)
(Updated)

REVISION DATE NOTE: Salvatore Santangelo with UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand) was
inadvertently omitted from the Compliance Table. The Compliance Table has been updated to
include Salvatore Santangelo.

30.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS AND VCA DATA – OPEN

The Staff Engineers presented the Audit Failure Data by sector and in total. The Average Failure
Rate for 2017 stands at 3.3%.

31.0 SSC REPORT OUT – OPEN

No information available on what was reviewed and discussed.

32.0 AMEC REPORT OUT – OPEN

Doug Matson presented the AMEC specification revision status. AMS 2759/1 through /13 is still
on going. Revision of AMS 2750 will begin soon.

ASTM E28 Committee on Indentation Hardness Testing Portable Hardness Testing. Another
ballot will be held. Doug Matson presented the forthcoming AMEC meeting dates. For further
details please reach out to HTTG contact Doug Matson.
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Discussion centered on whether to write a letter to the ASTM E28/E28-06 Committee

recommending the inclusion of portable hardness testing paragraph.

Motion was made by Doug Matson and seconded by Cyril Vernault to write a letter to the
ASTM28/E28-06 Committee. Motion passed 14-0.

ACTION ITEM: Sub team of Mark Emerson, Doug Matson, Cyril Vernault, Sunder Rajan, Tom
Norris, Joshua Crockett, Marcel Cuperman and Don Lowman to draft letter to the ASTM E28/E28-
06 Committee recommending the inclusion of portable hardness testing paragraph. (Due Date: 01-
Oct-2017).

33.0 AC7102 REV. J PROPOSAL – OPEN

One comment resolved.

34.0 OPEN MEETING NEW BUSINESS – OPEN

 Alternate SAT Document Form (Wilfried Weber) Document providing guidance to this
form was described. Discussion on whether the past months data need to be reviewed
for Alternate SAT. If we are within tolerance do not need to look back. If out of tolerance
shall need to look back to past months’ records to determine when the error may have
occured. Alternate SAT is NOT just instrument calibration.
 Had a Standard (conventional) SAT been done and if the results are in tolerance you do
not have to go back. With Alternate SAT, even if the results are in tolerance you must go
back. Is there a need to go back to the HTSTSTG to redo the form to permit back
tracking?
 HTSTSTG will need to discuss this and come to a resolution. The form should address
this.
 Auditor raised a concern regarding the TUS for a three-zone furnace. Supplier did not
demonstrate three point sensor measurements (hottest / coldest and mid-point). Also,
there was not supportive data that the T/C calibration was compliant.
o HTTG response; This should have been written as finding.
 Another issue regarding failed tensile test. The spec allows two retests. If they pass, are
only the passing values reported. Discussion – Average the values of the THREE Tests
should be reported. Auditor took a position that all three tests (including the failed test
should be reported. Supplier takes the position that the failed test value will be
maintained for archival data but not reported. As retesting is handled differently by each
specification, they need to be read.
 Alternate SAT Sensor- The supplier was using the furnace always at one temperature.
But calibrated instruments at THREE Temperature. The error was being calculated at the
used temperature for each load and still auditor wrote a finding.
o HTTG response; This is an auditor misinterpretation of the requirement. NCR
should not have been written.

35.0 OPEN MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS – OPEN

Short Job Audits, should they have an added Quench Table? Motion to add the existing Quench
Table to all the short job audits. Motion made by Tom Norris and seconded by Cyril Vernault to
add the QuenchTable in the existing format to the short job audit. Yes 20. Opposed 4. Motion
Passed.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to add quench table to AC7102 short job audits. (Due Date: Next
revision or sooner).

36.0 RAIL REVIEW – OPEN

Open Meeting Action Items were captured.

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37.0 AS9100 RECENT REVISION (REV D) AND IT’S IMPACT – OPEN

Presentation was made by Martin Bridge describing the essential changes and features.

38.0 PR-0100 NITRIDING – OPEN

Cyril Vernault presented main features of the Safran Pr-00100 Nitriding Specification
requirements.

39.0 HOW TO ANSWER NCR’S – OPEN

Cyril Vernault presented a guide on how to respond to NCR’s.

Clarified issues in the presentation, that Suppliers are to send restricted supportive data to
<restricteddata@p-r-i.org>

40.0 HONEYWELL REQUIREMENTS OVERVIEW – OPEN

Presentation was made by Martin Day.

41.0 Q & A SESSION – OPEN

Q1: Supplier has a HT Audit coming up. They have a brand new Temperature Monitoring System
(reduces the data to a treatment cycle minimum & maximum temperature). Do they have to
continue to have the operator check the chart?

A: You have to have the objective evidence that the automatic system is reporting all the required
data. Read the Audit Handbook which describes all of the data (objective evidence) which needs
to be provided to the auditor .

Q2: Follow on to above question. AS9100 requires that software system be verified?

A: Nadcap TG is process oriented. The Nadcap Audit and AS9100 are not always focused on the
same requirements.

Q3: SAT on two classes of furnace. Class 2 and Class 5. Does supplier need to follow the
frequency of Class 2 or Class 5?

A: Follow the frequency and requirement which is the most stringent qualified range. In this case
follow the requirements of Class 2 SAT frequency. It can be done at any processing temperature.

Q4: Related to SAT. Carburizing Furnace. There is a heating control element in the oxygen
sensor. Do we have to do an SAT?

A: You do not have to do an SAT on the Oxygen Sensor heating system.

Q5: One furnace with three temperature ranges. Do production TC’s have to be located in three
different areas for “Hot” and three different areas for “Cold”. Can the three “Hot“ locations be
averaged and three “Cold” be averaged?

A: One answer - 6 T/Cs - three times for Hot and three times for Cold. Supplier’s thought of
selecting one representative “Hot” and “Cold” temperature by averaging the three might lead to
erroneous results. This is not correct. Another option: If the temperatures are close enough and
have overlap, you may be able to narrow the number of T/Cs.

42.0 PLANNING & OPS REPORT OUT – OPEN

Tom Norris presented the details. Suppliers holding back “Proprietary Data” was discussed. The
NMC is concerned about this and will look into this further. Demands for “Restricted Auditors” and
ITAR work was discussed.
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43.0 NMC REPORT OUT – OPEN

Wilfried Weber presented the NMC report out.

Escape/Merit Discussion. How to determine Escape? Agreement established that once product
passes final inspection at supplier, it is an Escape if there is potential product impact.

Discussion on length of audit, especially if auditor and auditee do not speak the same language.

Is there data on the number of NCRs in different sectors? This needs to be reviewed.

Also discussed; Checklist availability in different languages. It is mandatory that objective

evidence be in English? Should all the procedures in different countries also be in English?

Accreditation Scope and Equipment used was discussed. List of equipment used is already
being provided by Suppliers for Heat Treating audits. This is acceptable to the suppliers as well.

44.0 CLOSED MEETING NEW BUSINESS– CLOSED

1. Spray Quench Process called out: Is there a temperature requirement?

Answer: If there is a requirement there should be a record.

2. Stopping a job during an audit if he observes something wrong? Does Auditor have
authority?

Answer: What should our position be for HTTG? Auditor has an obligation which should be
clearly described in Auditor Training. Cannot stop the job; but flag the non-compliance.
Make it clear that an NCR will be issued. Auditor needs to confirm the non-conformance.

3. An issue with a Supplier receiving a major NCR. As a result the Supplier lost merit; but the
Supplier came back two months after the audit was closed saying that the NCR was not
valid, response from Subscriber was not prompt.

Answer: Normally NCRs need to be challenged within a short time after audit closure (10
days maximum). The details provided justification to reducing the NCR and restore the
merit. Motion made by Earl Pruett and seconded by Cyril Vernault to reduce the NCR to a
minor and reinstate the Merit without an appeal. Motion passed 15 to 4. Next auditor, while
reviewing this NCR, should be able to see the response from customer (Pratt and Whitney)
supporting the Supplier, allowing the time tolerance used by the supplier.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to alter merit on the audit. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

4. PRI reviewed an allegation made by former employee of a Supplier. We reviewed the

summary of the allegation investigation. Do we need to share this allegation with other Task
Groups?

Answer: There were five subscribers involved who assessed the Supplier in view of the
allegation. The Subscribers did not see anything which caused concern as a result of this
allegation. There was unanimous consensus among the HTTG that no further action is
needed and this can be closed without further action.

5. Honeywell (Martin Day) Audit 170925 Process Control testing – Concern Vacuum System
Calibration. (Metrology) is identified as a Process Control item. Is this a Process Control
issue? Should this be a subject for Auditor Training?

Answer: This has been done, when no other testing is required.

6. Subscriber, expressed concern about overshoot of solution treating temperature identified in

an NCR.
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Answer: Advisory (Potential Product Impact) was issued.

7. Time duration of audit minimum three days work was completed in a day and a half. What
do they do for the rest of the time? Auditor may complete sooner if there are brief cycles and
then they may have spare time.

Answer: This is between PRI and Supplier. One furnace and One Hardness Tester 
automatically 4 days. HTTG Member is encouraged to work with the Staff Engineer.

8. Issue discussed when Subscriber identified issue during their audit.

Answer: There is a defined procedure (OP 1109 Paragraph 4.1.2) to report a major finding
at a supplier which an auditor may have missed.

45.0 CLOSED MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS– CLOSED

Items which were tabled for review on Thursday, 8-Jun-2017 were accordingly reviewed and
acted upon. Some items were postponed for review at the October 2017 Nadcap Meeting in
Pittsburgh, PA. USA., as noted.

Chair asked Staff Engineers to add a new regular agenda item for Prime review & allocation of
observations. The most overdue auditor observations to address the HTTG difficulty in keeping
up with its requirement to observe all auditors a minimum of every 3 years. Two Primes agreed
to attempt to obtain authorization from their leadership to observe the two most delinquent-to-be-
observed auditors.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add item to regular agenda – Prime review and allocation of
observations. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

HTTG agreed to begin pilot of Alternate SAT form upon its correction to direct user to “look back”
as noted in Open Session of minutes.

MTL MOU, Jerry Aston to monitor a meeting between HT and MTL to work out the issue. Mark
Emerson, Cyril Vernault, Doug Matson and Tom Norris to participate.

ACTION ITEM: Mark Emerson, Cyril Vernault, Doug Matson and Tom Norris to participate with a
MTL team on resolving testing MOU issue. Jerry Aston to monitor meetings. (Due Date: 01-Jul-
2017).

46.0 RAIL REVIEW– CLOSED

Action Item Lists provided by Secretary and RAIL was updated.

47.0 OCTOBER 2017 AGENDA– CLOSED

Staff Engineers will create October 2017 HTTG Agenda and send to HTTG for review prior to
posting.

ADJOURNMENT – 8-June-2017 – Meeting was adjourned at 2:30 p.m.

Minutes Prepared by: Sunder S Rajan, Sunder_S_Rajan@raytheon.com

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***** For PRI Staff use only: ******

Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting?
(select one)

YES* ☒ NO ☐

*If yes, the following information is required:

Documents requiring revision: Who is responsible: Due date:
AC7102 Staff Engineer Next Revision of AC7102