Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr-25206c - SmokStak

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0 BFA 3cr/25206c - SmokStak
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Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

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08-29-2014, 08:52:02 PM #1
Join Date: Apr 2014

Location: Bailey, Colorado, USA
nothingbutdarts Posts: 3,145
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Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c
Serial # J823630779
This is an old propane powered unit I got for free. It turns over by hand and I
jumped the solenoid and it will turn over with a battery. I have never heard it run.
It had been sitting a long while with out running and the guy knew nothing about
it I got it from.
It used to belong to a phone company (Bell Syst.)
I tried starting it on propane jumping the electric propane solenoid, I never heard
gas flow out of the feed line going to the carb. body. By chance does the main LP
regulator need to feel a vacuume before it lets the LP flow?
If one just jumps the LP solenoid, should you not hear gas flowing???
I did dribble gasoline down the carb. body a few times and did get the engine to
sputter a few times after filing the points so it would get soark.
Thank You!!
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6/12/2019 Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c - SmokStak
08-29-2014, 09:28:28 PM #2
Join Date: May 2009

Location: N.W. Missouri, USA
Max Thompson Posts: 6,247
Re: 4.0bfa 3cr/25206c
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingbutdarts

By chance does the main LP regulator need to feel a vacuume before it lets
the LP flow?
Yes, the "demand" regulator needs vacuum in order to open.
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nothingbutdarts
08-29-2014, 09:35:33 PM #3
Join Date: May 2013

Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Doug Reed Posts: 1,079
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Re: 4.0bfa 3cr/25206c
Yes, the Onan propane powered sets usually include a demand regulator between
the carb and the secondary regulator. You must limit the propane pressure to
11"wc going to the demand regulator. That is about 4 ounces of pressure. If you
feed it more than that the demand regulator can be damaged. I think it is also
designed to lock up and not flow any propane at all under those conditions.
You should start by getting all the manuals and looking over at least the
Operator's manual and the T-015 Gaseous Fuels manual.
http://www.twinslan.net/~n0nas/manua...0(06-1977).pdf
The 932-0112B literature index says a BFA genset came in three different flavors,
one as an Auxilliary generator, one for RV's, and one for Utilities.
This list of manuals covers the RV & Utility models:

900-0337 Generator & Controls Service manual
965-0122 Operator's Manual

965-0222 RV Genset Parts List

965-0262 Utility Genset Parts Manual, thanks to Kpack.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdh1b95y1k...5-0262bfad.pdf
The 900-0186 RV Genset wiring diagrams manual says your generator 25206C
uses the 611-1142 wiring diagram. You can find it in post #3 at:
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134022
Grab all the manuals and look through the T-015 manual to understand how the LP
system works. There are some pretty good trouble shooting charts in the manuals
too.
The Following User Says Thank You to Doug Reed For This Post:
nothingbutdarts
08-29-2014, 09:38:39 PM #4
Join Date: Apr 2014

Re: 4.0bfa 3cr/25206c
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Reed

Yes, the Onan propane powered sets usually include a demand regulator
between the carb and the secondary regulator. You must limit the propane
pressure to 11"wc going to the demand regulator. That is about 4 ounces of
pressure. If you feed it more than that the demand regulator can be
damaged. I think it is also designed to lock up and not flow any propane at
all under those conditions.
You should start by getting all the manuals and looking over at least the
Operator's manual and the T-015 Gaseous Fuels manual.
The 932-0112B literature index says a BFA genset came in three different
flavors, one as an Auxilliary generator, one for RV's, and one for Utilities.
This list of manuals covers the RV & Utility models:

900-0337 Generator & Controls Service manual
965-0122 Operator's Manual

965-0222 RV Genset Parts List

965-0262 Utility Genset Parts Manual, thanks to Kpack.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdh1b95y1k...5-0262bfad.pdf
The 900-0186 RV Genset wiring diagrams manual says your generator

25206C uses the 611-1142 wiring diagram. You can find it in post #3 at:
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134022
Grab all the manuals and look through the T-015 manual to understand how
the LP system works. There are some pretty good trouble shooting charts in
the manuals too.
Thank You! Time for reading.
08-29-2014, 11:58:44 PM #5
Join Date: Apr 2014

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c
Is there gaseous fuel's manual that relates to the smaller BFA units?
Is there a way to check the demand regulator to see if it's working properly?
08-30-2014, 12:38:43 AM #6
Join Date: May 2013

There is just one T-015 manual and it applies to all sizes of engines. Yes, the
charts and recommendations start at about 15KW for a JC engine and are overkill
for a 4KW BFA. But unless there is something in the RV manuals, possibly in the
Installation manual, it is all you are going to find. I do remember seeing info about
full load fuel requirements for something I looked at today, and I know it included
propane as one of the gaseous fuels.
The important take-away from those manuals is the basics of how to setup the
regulators for best safety, i.e. first stage at the tank, what size piping to the
generator, solenoid valve to make sure propane is off when the generator isn't
running, secondary regulator, demand regulator, and fuel pipe sizes again.....
There are multiple manuals on the Internet that have basically the same
information. You just have to look until you think you've found all the answers you
need. I've looked at a few RV sites and looked for what I could find.
RV LP Gas Systems- Training- RVIA.pdf
Garretson KN Demand Regulator adjustment.pdf
Basic Gaseous Fuel Operation and Installation- CarbTurbo.com.pdf
LP-Gas_Servicemans_Manual.pdf
I think Kohler has a manual on generators and gaseous fuel operation too. Onan is
certainly not the only source for safe ideas.
Regarding testing the Garretson KN demand regulator, I don't remember reading

that information. I do remember that sucking on the propane feed tube to the carb
was considered to be a VERY BAD thing to do. I don't remember if there was a
suggestion for increasing pressure at the atmospheric air vent ports to fool the
regulator that there is a vacuum at the carb port. Checking to make sure those
ports are clear is a primary task in trouble shooting, bugs love to plug those holes.
The full load fuel requirements were in one of the regular manuals, Operator,
Service or Install, probably in more than one of them, but I don't remember what
I was looking at....
nothingbutdarts
08-31-2014, 05:07:21 PM #7
Join Date: Oct 2012

Location: Waynesburg, Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,106
Onan Dan Thanks: 9,543
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Ok nothingbutdarts back to the top your thread you say tried gasoline down carb
got spark that is good now my question have you checked the propane carb to be
sure the main fuel jet and the small idile jet is open try two and a half turns out
for the main and 1 and a quarter turns out for the idle this is enought to get it to
start adjust them later.
you asked if you could hear lp flow when you jumped the 12 vdc solenoid ? no you
will not cause if the motor is not turning over to create vac from intake the zero
gravity regulator will not be open until the motor draws on it at the intake or carb.
possible could be the 12 volt dc shut off not opening to let lp to your low pressure
regulator . could take it off and go direct to the regulator just to try it? First I
would check the main source of fuel the lp supply regulator you can loosen the
fitting on the side of it towards the generator and crack valve on tank open and
see if lp escapes? then if it does then it just may be the 12 volt dc fuel shut off not
opening? To make a simple test on the Low pressure regulator take it off and try to
blow through the inlet side if it is working you will not be able to blow through it
now on the out let side towards the carb try a little suction by mouth and it should
open same as the intake creating vacumn on it also if it is quiet you can hear it
work inside the regulator. I am ole school if at first you do not succeed try and try
again. if you got fuel and spark you should have fire
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Doug Reed, nothingbutdarts
08-31-2014, 05:58:44 PM #8
Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: pittsburgh
scoops Posts: 1,127
What kind of propane tank are you hooking up to? What size?
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nothingbutdarts
08-31-2014, 06:42:01 PM #9
Join Date: May 2013

Oh yes, I had forgotten the simple expedient of disconnecting the demand

regulator before sucking on the outlet port. Wouldn't want to do that with propane
hooked up, but with it disconnected, the procedure Onan Dan suggests is perfectly
simple. Just remember the demand regulator is not intended to operate with
anything more than 6-12 ounces of air pressure on the inlet. I doubt you'll need to
suck or blow real hard for this test and you absolutely shouldn't hook it up to an
air compressor. And with the demand regulator out, you should smell propane if
the solenoid valve and secondary regulator are working, or at least are not
plugged.....
nothingbutdarts
08-31-2014, 06:55:48 PM #10
Join Date: May 2009

Location: N.W. Missouri, USA
Max Thompson Posts: 6,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Reed

Just remember the demand regulator is not intended to operate with
anything more than 6-12 ounces of air pressure on the inlet. .
The demand regulator is more likely designed to operate with 6" - 11" Water
Column. 12 ounces would be close to 18".
Instead of "sucking" on the outlet of the demand regulator, you can softly "blow"
across the vent opening of the regulator, this can be done with the outlet
connected.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Max Thompson For This Post:
nothingbutdarts, Onan Dan
08-31-2014, 08:57:44 PM #11
Join Date: May 2013

Yup, the 12 ounces was a guess, more for manufacturing tolerance than design
operating spec. Just trying to indicate that you don't need to blow the house down
while doing the test. I do like the suggestion of blowing across the demand
regulator vents. All we're doing is changing what the demand regulator sees as
"atmospheric pressure" so it opens up and provides propane to the carb. Also
gives you a reason to look for the vent holes and make sure they are not plugged
by insects.
nothingbutdarts
08-31-2014, 11:29:16 PM #12
Join Date: Apr 2014

Thank You all!
When I get some free time this coming week I'll give all the suggestions a try.
As far as what I'm using for a tank, yes it's a 20# barbeque tank just to see if it
will start. I have read thru other propane posts and do know from them that it
most likely will only idle and not run full open in the 20# tank because it will
freeze.
I'm just trying to see if I can get this old unit started and see how it sounds before
I go further on the A/C output side. It's been sitting quite a long while!
The Following User Says Thank You to nothingbutdarts For This Post:
Onan Dan
04-21-2015, 12:19:48 PM #13
Join Date: Dec 2012

Location: Elmira, Oregon
Jack D D Posts: 327
Registered-II Thanks: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingbutdarts

Thank You all!
When I get some free time this coming week I'll give all the suggestions a
try.
As far as what I'm using for a tank, yes it's a 20# barbeque tank just to see
if it will start. I have read thru other propane posts and do know from them
that it most likely will only idle and not run full open in the 20# tank
because it will freeze.
I'm just trying to see if I can get this old unit started and see how it sounds
before I go further on the A/C output side. It's been sitting quite a long
while!
I run my 6.5NH on propane tanks down to 20# and they do not freeze up, even in
Winter. Last power outage we ran ~6 hours on a 30# tank with no problems. No
icing anywhere.....not even at the tank. Might happen in very cold temp's. Can't
say for sure, but doesn't seem to be a problem here.
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lokay5, nothingbutdarts
04-21-2015, 12:39:04 PM #14
Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,350
Thanks: 462
BigBlockChev
Subscriber
Couple of things , the demand reg has to be mounted in the vertical position ie
with the diaphragm in the vertical plane. This is to eliminate the effect of gravity
on the diaphragm. The garrettson KN is fine for a 4K gen , I have one factory
supplied on a Kohler 4K. Also does your reg have a primer button on it , some do
some don't. Cheers Dan
__________________
It's always something simple.
One test is worth a thousand guesses.
The Feynman method , teach it to a kid , then you understand it.
The Following User Says Thank You to BigBlockChev For This Post:
nothingbutdarts
04-21-2015, 02:18:40 PM #15
Join Date: Apr 2014

No primer button on the regulator. I did get it running by lightly blowing on the
vent line, you can hear it start flowing propane that way and got the engine fired.
I still haven't checked for voltage. It's sitting on the way back burner for now.
The Following User Says Thank You to nothingbutdarts For This Post:
lokay5
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Click HERE for: Parts, Manuals, Generators, Filters, Controls

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Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Schematic Diagram Electrical Wiring User Manuals

Join Date: Apr 2014

Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Join Date: May 2009

Re: 4.0bfa 3cr/25206c

Originally Posted by nothingbutdarts

Yes, the "demand" regulator needs vacuum in order to open.

Join Date: May 2013

Re: 4.0bfa 3cr/25206c

This list of manuals covers the RV & Utility models:

965-0122 Operator's Manual

965-0222 RV Genset Parts List

965-0262 Utility Genset Parts Manual, thanks to Kpack.

Join Date: Apr 2014

Re: 4.0bfa 3cr/25206c

Originally Posted by Doug Reed

This list of manuals covers the RV & Utility models:

965-0122 Operator's Manual

965-0222 RV Genset Parts List

965-0262 Utility Genset Parts Manual, thanks to Kpack.

The 900-0186 RV Genset wiring diagrams manual says your generator

Thank You! Time for reading.

Join Date: Apr 2014

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Join Date: May 2013

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Regarding testing the Garretson KN demand regulator, I don't remember reading

Join Date: Oct 2012

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Join Date: Oct 2008

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Join Date: May 2013

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Oh yes, I had forgotten the simple expedient of disconnecting the demand

08-31-2014, 06:55:48 PM #10

Join Date: May 2009

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Originally Posted by Doug Reed

08-31-2014, 08:57:44 PM #11

Join Date: May 2013

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

08-31-2014, 11:29:16 PM #12

Join Date: Apr 2014

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Thank You all!

04-21-2015, 12:19:48 PM #13

Join Date: Dec 2012

Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

Originally Posted by nothingbutdarts

04-21-2015, 12:39:04 PM #14

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Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

04-21-2015, 02:18:40 PM #15

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Re: Onan 4.0 BFA 3cr/25206c

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