1

Close Down YGC!

Report

The struggle to save children and community

efforts to close down the
San Francisco juvenile justice system

​Raymond J. Balberan
Alfredo Bojorquez

Real Alternatives Program

1983
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We delicate his report: To Robert Boe, a black boy who suffered and suicide death in San
Francisco juvenile Hall crystallized the need for fundamental change in the care and
treatment of San Francisco poor at risk children.
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Close Down San Francisco Youth Guidance Center

The community struggle to change San Francisco Juvenile Justice System

Raymond J. Balberan
Mission Mediarts Film Workshop

1976 – 1990

Contents

INSTITUTIOINAL CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT IS A CRIME 4

THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY 7
THE COUNSELOR 9
WESTERN UNION MAILGRAM 10
ELECTRIC SHOCK TORTURE 12
CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION 14
THE VICTIMS 15
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INSTITUTIOINAL CHILD ABUSE AND NEG I LECT IS A CRIME

CONCILIO DE LA RAZA PARA EDUCACION, AYUDA Y RECURSOS

To: Mayor Feinstein

From: Raymond Balberan, CREAR Youth Committee Chairperson

Subject: INSTITUTIOINAL CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT IS A CRIME

Our children are being abused and neglected by San Francisco Youth Guidance Center!

INCIDENT APPROX. DATE VICTIM

Sexual Molestation November 1982 15 yr. old boy

Oral Copulation January 1983 15 yr. old boy

Showing Youth Pornography October 1982 to 15 yr. old boy

January 1983
Letting the boys fight, then July 1982 16 yr. old boy
punishing them for fighting

Forced to do exercises, beyond their May 1983 17 yr. old boy

capability or be punished

No shampoo to wash hair May 1983 17 yr. old boy

Use of bathroom refused, to the September 1962 14 yr. old boy

point of suicide

Not enough ventilation in cells May 1963 13. yr. old boy

Force to sleep with youth that has May 1983 13 yr. old boy
crabs ( two youth per room)
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Locked in room for two weeks April.1963 13 Yr. old boy

straight, with 45 min. exercise

No shoes for four days June 1982 13 yr. old boy

Left in a cold wet room with no Nov. 1981 12 yr. old boy
clothes on and no bed in the room

Twice withheld food within sight Nov. 1981 12 yr. old boy
then gave it to the youth 3 to 4
hours later

Youth was body slammed and got a March 1981 12 yr. old boy
knee injury by a counselor

On a pass, youth left at a group Jan. 1982 12 yr. old boy

home, while counselor took off to
take care of "business"

Denied rights to file a grievance March 1983 13 yr. old boy

Not given proper health care March 1983 13 yr. old boy
(all children)

Youth forced to go without proper Sept. 1982 16 7r. old boy

clothes (underwear only)

Truants are truant because of over April 1983 14 yr. old boy
crowding in YGC

Milk was sour and was told it Mail 1983 14 yr. old boy
happen now and then

Youth is always hungry not enough May 1983 14 yr. old boy
food to go a around.
(most children)

Always hungry with May 1983 17 yr. boy

stomach pains

Youth says counselors eat the May 1983 17 yr. old boy
food first and they get the leftovers

Counselors ate the youth snacks Dec. 1962 14 yr. old boy
that mother sent, and has seen them
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do the same to other youth

Woman counselor sexually 1982 16 yr. old boy

seducing a boy, she took out on a
pass twice

Young girl had to pick out 1982 13 yr. old girl

underwear in front of a men
counselors

Suspected Child Abuse Reports (11166 PC)

TO BE COMPLETED BY REPORTING PARTY

REPORTING PARTY (A)
C.R.E.A.R. YOUTH COMMITTEE - RAYMOND BALBERAN
NAME

2901-23 STREETS, SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94110 (415) 826-6474

ADDRESS PHONE

6-20-83 ______________________________________
DATE OF REPORT SIGATURE OF REPORTING PARTY

REPORT SENDS TO [B] (X) POLICE DEPARTMENT ( ) SHERIFF’S

OFFICE
(X) COUNTY WELFARE ( ) COUNTY PROBATION

D.S.S. Family & Children's Services 2049 Grove St. SF, CA

AGENCY ADDRESS

RICHARD ARTHUR, CES H-51 (415) 367-9010 6-20-83

OFFICAL CONTACTED PHONE DATE/TIME

VICTIM [C]

Jaime XXXXXXXX 3515- 23rd St., SF 94110 9-20-65 Male Mexican

NAME ADDRESS BRITHDATE SEX RACE

INCIDENT INFORMATIOIN [D]

1. DATE/TIME OF INCIDENT: ​12-20-82 (1430)

PLACE OF INCIDENT: ​YGC B-5 classroom

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Check one: (X) OCCURRED (__) OBSERVED

2. TYPE OF ABUSE:
( ) PHYSICAL (X) MENTAL ( ) SEXUAL ASSAULT
(X) NEGLECT (X) OTHER

3. NARRATIVE DESCRIPTION: On the about date our classroom teacher in B-5 Pain
love, stated that he is a member of the Ku Klux Klan and he hate to teach in YGC. On
other occasions he brought the KKK grown and pointed hat to show the students. He did
not want us to read books. He would often make racist remarks.

The District Attorney

On June 20, 1983 the San Francisco District Attorney received

21 SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE REPORTS (11166 PC).

Reporting party: Concilio De La Raza Educacion, Ayuda Y Recursos.

Place of Incident: San Francisco Youth Guidance Center- juvenile Hall
Victim’s narrative description of the child abuse incidents:

“Aren’t enough food for the juveniles. The counselors are eating before we come and we
get the leftover food. Most of the day I’m still hungry and my stomach be hurting.”

Counselor showed Eric pornography, telling him he wouldn't know what to do if the had
a women like this, Counselor showed pictures to a group of children.

Counselor was threaded to beat up Edward and called his mother dirty names.

Counselor # 1 grabbed a black child by his neck, choked him and repeatedly and pushed
him against the wall. The boy was screaming for help. Counselor #2 came in and
grabbed Counselor # 1 to keep him from beating the child. Counselor #1 was yelling,
"I'll beat your ass, you punk! " Counselor #2 did not let Counselor go.

"Every day I'm hungry because there is not enough food to go around f or everybody. So
everybody gets less food; so that is why I'm always hungry. And we have lunch at 12:00
and eat dinner at 6:00, 1 think that is too much time between to the next meal."

" I have been here, in YGC, for twenty days and have not been able to wash b7 hair with
shampoo."
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"For the first f our days when I was locked up they Counselors, didn't give me no shoes. I
had to walk around barefooted witch hurt my feet."

"There was a counselor named #1. He took us down to the gym, and there
two boys had and argument. Counselor #1 said, wait till we get upstairs. After
showers everybody was in their rooms. Counselor #1 got the two boys and said
just go body. They went off (fought) right in front of my room.” Note: Counselor #1
promoted and arranged for two children to participate in a violent fight.

" The boy Dan wanted to use the bathroom, and the counselor Mr. T. said in twenty
minutes. And twenty minutes went by and the counselor said if you keep asking you're
not going to use it. And the boy was getting smart with the counselor and the counselor
came and got his pants, shoes, socks and mattress. And then the boy tried to hang himself
with a shoelace. And they took the shoes lace from him and he tried to hang himself
again with his towel." Note: D.H. is still detained at YGC as of 8-83.

“I was cold and freezing in my cell every night because the ventilation fans are left on
running every night."

At breakfast there was not enough food ran out of eggs. I was hungry."

Counselor A.P. (woman) took J. (15 year old boy) out of Receiving Unit-YGC on two
occasions, with a pass from a probation officer, took him to a motel and had sexual
intercourse with him. After J. was placed in S.F. Boys' Home, Counselor A.P. took him
to live with her for four months. Subsequently she abandoned the child in San Francisco.

"The milk served to detainees in B-3 was sour. Counselor K. replied that it happens now
and then."

The counselors ate snacks that X’s mother brought for him. They also eat other children's
snacks.

A 13-year-old girl in the RU had to pick out underwear in front of men counselors.

“I was forced to do exercise which I could not do or could not keep the same pace as
everyone else. And was given discipline for not being able to keep the same pace as
everyone else." Note: Counselors at YGC are exercising youth beyond their physical
capabilities and threatening them with discipline.

"On November 28, 198 1 in 5 - I cottage in YGC two counselors Mr. X. and Mr. Z
grabbed me and took all my clothes off and threw me in a room the cold room #9 for four
hours. The room is wet from the fog with no bed. In November 8​th​ by the same
counselors thrown me in my room with nothing on and they left my lunch tray out side
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my room, then they gave me the tray about 3 - 4 hours later, then they (counselors) did
the same with the dinner. I had no choice but to eat it or go hungry. In January 1982 I
was put in placement. Counselor M. A. told me he was taking me to visit a group home in
Sacramento so that I could look around while he took care of some business. Then he just
left me there. In March of 1963 counselor Mr. R. B-2 who weights about 2 00 pounds
picked me up and body slammed me, I hurt my knee. Then he ripped off the scab of a
tetanus shot I had and it bled. Then I wanted to fill out a grievance sheet and he wouldn't
let me fill it out. Mr. R. said I didn't have the right, but he had the right to do anything he
wanted to me because I was in jail. Then he locked me up again couldn't use the
bathroom, I had to piss in the corner in a towel.”

"Sometimes when it is very hot outside and the tar on the roof gets hot and you and you
are locked up in your room doing hours in your room, no way for air to get in. I ask the
counselors to turn on the fans, but they never does.” Note: this abuse is affecting many
children at YGC.

"I got a lunch trail in his cell because he was combing his hair. I didn't want to eat his
food because it was cold and nasty. I only got half of his food and they, counselor, would
force him to eat cold food or receive discipline. I was locked up in rooms for more hours
10 to 15 hours a day, it happens all the time."

I was cold and freezing in my cell every night because the ventilation fans are left on
running every night."

Counselor was threatening to beat up Edward and was calling his mother dirty names.

"When I arrived at RU at YGC the clerk took my clothes and told me I would get some
clothes in the morning. But in the morning I still did no get any clothes so I had to stay in
my room for half of the day because they did not have any clothes."

The Counselor

Wed., April 11, 1984 S.F. Examiner

Youth center critics still unhappy after ex-aide sentenced

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By Mireya Navarro
Examiner staff writer

The conviction of former Youth Guidance Center counselors for contributing to, the
delinquency of a minor hasn't mollified the Latino organization whose allegations of
child abuse led to the arrest. "No don't want individuals, we want the System to change,"
said Ray Balberan of the Mission District Council of La Raza for Education, Assistance
and Resources, "The lower echelon is just a symptom of the cause of the problem at the
Youth Guidance Center.

Patricia Abadesco, 24, was placed on three years' probation and required to perform 200
hours of community service yesterday after pleading no contest in San Francisco
Municipal Court to one count of contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
Accused of seducing a 16-year old boy in custody at the center while she was working as
a part time counselor there in 19 8 2, she had been charged with three counts of oral
copulation with the youth, but those dismissed after her plea.

Abadesco's case was among those compiled against the center and reported to the
juvenile justice Commission by CREAR last summer. The organizations charges ranged
form alleged incidents of sexual molestation to complaints by teens that they were left
naked in bare cells and denied food.

Of 31 allegations, Abadesco's case was the only one to reach the courts after an
investigation by the district attorney's office. A two-month study by management audit
team released last year dismissed the child abuse accusations, saying they seemed to stem
from "some isolated incident." The team's harshest criticism instead zeroed in on the
center's physical condition. In addition, the juvenile justice Commission and a committee
appointed by Mayor Feinstein undertook their own investigation last June, but they have
yet to report their findings. Stephen La Plant, a member of the mayor's committee, said a
report is likely to be released, this month following a meeting between the nine
investigators and the mayor.

But Ray Balberan, chairman of CREAR's child abuse committee, said, "It’s’ like seeing a
crime and you scream and no one comes to the rescue. It's taken more than six months
for the report to come out while hundreds of kids are being abused in this city."

The prosecutor who handled the Abadesco case said her office did conduct an
investigation that found most of CREAR's allegations without merit or not serious
enough to warrant criminal charges. Assistant District Attorney Susan Eto said the
investigators looked for cases of neglect and physical or sexual abuse.
“We found nothing else (other than the Abadesco case) and certainly didn't find any
supervisory personnel that were involved in any type of wrongdoing" she said.
The charges against Abadesco involved three sexual encounters that allegedly occurred
between February and March 1982.
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Western Union Mailgram

4053656s311002 11/07/83 ICS IPMRNCZ SFOB

14158215328 MGM TDRL SAN FRANCISCO CA 1107 0617P WST

REAL ALTERNATIVES PROGRAM

1950 MISSION St.
SAN FRANCISCO CA 94110

THIS IS A CONFIRMATION COPY OF THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE:

4158215328 MGM TDRN SAN FRANCISCO CA 208 1107 0617P EST ZIP

DANIEL J SILVA 375 WOODSIDE AVE SAN FRANC ISCO CA 9 4 12 7

WE ARE CONCER ABOUT THE CARE AND HEALTH OF

CHILDREN IN LOG CABIN RANCH! WE ARE CALLING FOR AN
INVESTIGATION AND PUBLIC HEARING CONCERNING THE INCIDENT THAT
HAPPENED AT LOG CABIN RANCH IN LATE OCTOBER. WILL THE
COMMITTEE PLEASE ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS FOR THE
COMMUNITY? 1. WAS A COUNSELOR HIRED AT LOG CABIN RANCH, DID HE
HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD FOR CHILD ABUSE DID THE COUNSELOR COME
TO WORK WITH A THERMOS FULL OF VODKA? DID THE COUNSELOR
RECRUIT 4 YOUTH AND GIVE THEM ALCOHOL DRINKS? DID A VIOLENT
FIGHT OCCUR BETWEEN THE 4 YOUTHS THAT WERE DRINKING AND
OTHER YOUTHS THAT WERE SLEEPING? HAS THE CHIEF PROBATION
OFFICER JOE BOTA REPORTED CHILD ABUSE TO THE DA AND SHERIFF'S
DEPARTMENT? DID THE 4 CHILDREN THAT WAS GIVEN ALCOHOL BY THE
COUNSELOR WERE THE YOUTHS SENT TO Y.A.? WERE ANY OF THE
CHILDREN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED?

PLEASE INVESTIGATE THIS MATTER. THE LIVES OF POOR CHILDREN ARE

AT STAKE. BE FREE TO CALL ON ME IF YOU NEED ANY ASSISTANCE.

WITH LOVE, DIGNITY AND RESPECT

RAYMOND JAMES ALI BALBERAN, YOUTH COMMITTEE OF COUNCIL OF LA

RAZA FOR EDUCATION AND RESOURCES. 4156211155
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Electric shock torture

At a meeting with the Mayor's Special Investigator and Mitch Salazar the Director of
RAP I express my concerns about an YGC teacher. An YGC teacher and counselors
have tortured youth with an electric shock device. I also said I believe the teacher that
makes racist remarks, clams to be a member of the Ku Klux Klan are one and the same.

At the meeting I produce a working model of the electric shock device, a portable five or
nine pound black metal box, with a hand crank builtin on the right side and with two four
feet electric wires connected to terminals at the top of the model. I placed the wires in
the hands of the Special Investigator and cranked up the box. He was shocked!

In May of 1984, the Mayor's Youth Guidance Committee Special Investigator had direct
information concerning the use electric shock torture to punish wards of the court held in
San Francisco Youth Guidance Center. On July 19, 1984, The Concilio Do La Raza Para
Educacion, Ayuda Recurosos (C.R.A.R.) requested from the Regional Program Director
Administration for Children, Youth and Families of the U.S. Department Of Health &
Human Services to arrange a meeting with the California State Attorney.

[THE FOLLOWING IS A RETYPED COPY LETTER FROM MISSION MEDIARTS

TO THE SAN FRANCISCO JUVENILE JUSTICE COMMISSION]

TO: Ron Fleischer Regional Program Director Administration for Children, Youth and
Families DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES

FROM: C.R.E.A.R
DATE: July 19, 1984

Dear Ron,

There has been a local investigation, which we are not satisfied with!
We feel child abuse reporting laws have been compromise. Poor children are unprotected
and neglected to the point of suicide. We have a first hand knowledge of children, who
have been tortured by an electric shock device, ‘The Crank’, under the calve of teacher
and counselors working at Youth Guidance Center of San Francisco.

There is a silent conspiracy to keep children victims of abuse and neglect. Can you please
arrange a meeting with the California State Attorney General John K. Van De Kamp.

A good-hearted effort is needed to rescue and protect children from violence.

I await your help

With Dignity and Respect
Raymond J. Balberan
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(THE FOLLOWING IS A RETYPED COPY LETTER FROM DEPARTMENT OF

HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES TO ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CALIFORNIA)
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES LETTER

JUL 24 1984

John van de Kamp

Attorney General
Office of the State Attorney General
1515 K Street, Suite 511
Sacramento, California 95814

Dear Mr. van de Kamp

This is to refer to your office a request for assistance that we receive from Mr. Raymond
Balberan from Concilio De La Raza Para Educacion, Ayuda Recurson (CREAR). Mr.
Balberan believes that the investigations into abuse by San Francisco Youth Guidance
Center have been inadequate and approached our office to see whether there was any
recourse beyond local authorities.

Because San Francisco Youth Guidance Center is under the Authorities of the Superior
Court, we are referring his inquiry to you.

Thank you, in advance for whatever assistance you can give.

Sincerely,
Roy Fleischer
Regional Program Director
Administration for Children,
Youth and Families

[THE FOLLO W I NG I S A RE TYPED COPY LETTER FROM THE

ATTORNEY GENEREAL OF CALIFORNIA TO THE REAL ALTERNATIVES
PROGRAM]

John K. Van De Kamp

Attorney General
State of California
Department of Justice

August 6, 1984

Raymond Balberan
Real Alternatives Program, Inc.
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1950 Mission Street, Room #2

San Francisco, CA 9 4 110

Dear Mr. Balberan:

We recently received a letter from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
forwarding your request that our office investigate the Sari Francisco juvenile Hall.
Although this office has a broad supervisory authority with respect to local law
enforcement agencies, we do not initiate such investigations until all local resources have
been exhausted. Included with Mr. Fleischer's letter was a copy of the Mayor's Youth
Guidance Center committee Report on the facility dated May 1984. Since the local
authorities are studying these matters, if you are dissatisfied with their results you should
bring the matter to the attention of such local officials as the Sheriff, District Attorney,
Mayor and the Grand Jury, which have broad powers to investigate conditions in
institutions such as the Youth Guidance Center.

Very truly yours

JOHN K, VAN DE KAMP

Attorney General

WILLIAM D, STEIN
Assistant Attorney Gene

Civil Rights Division

Date: 1985

Dan Jacobs attorney for Civil Rights Division of the United States Department of Justice
phoned RAP/ Raymond J. Balberan from Washington D.C. To interview him concerning
San Francisco Youth Guidance Center child abuse reports.

The phone conversation statement:

I have direct knowledge concerning child abuse and neglect at San Francisco
Youth Guidance Center. Children's lives were endangered 1

1. Children held at YGC are living in unsafe conditions.

2. Children are suffering from hunger and dirty clothing. Teenagers are subject to
physical abuse, mental abuse and sexual abuse.

4. The courts do not have ongoing interpreter services.

5. Wards of the court are under the care of staff that had child abuse criminal
records.
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6. For years, a teacher and YGC counselors are punishing hundreds of children with
electric shock torture.

7. Children are suffering to the point of suicide.

The Victims

[THE FOLLOWING IS A RETYPED COPY LETTER FROM MISSION MEDIARTS

TO THE SAN FRANC I SCO C I V I L GRAND JURY]

San Francisco Civil Grand Jury

July 7, 1985
Mr. Alfred Cinell, Forman
San Francisco Civil Grand Jur7

Dear Mr. Cinell;

I submit to you the following statements concerning the use of an electric shock device
by a teacher and counselors to torture children/wards of the court for over four years. I
make this personal and emotional appeal to the San Francisco Civil Grand Jury to
investigate San Francisco Youth Guidance Center/Juvenile Court. The painful truth is
San Francisco children were exposed to electric shock torture. A San Francisco Youth
Guidance Center teacher and counselors inflicted this cruel and unjustifiable punishment
on defenseless children. The punishment and torture took place in an open classroom in
front of all the students. This hideous treatment was performed on a daily basis within
view of professional and non-professional YGC staff members. Electric shock torture is
cruel inhuman punishment that caused children to suffer physical pain and mental
suffering.

Sincerely,
/s/
Raymond J. Balberan
Mission Mediarts San Francisco

Victim’s narrative descriptions of the electric shock torture incidents:

Robert V.

Place of incident: San Francisco Youth Guidance Center

Date/Time of incident: 1977or 1976/school hours Unit: Classroom and B4

Narrative description of the child abuse incident:

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Q. How old are you?

A. Approximately 23 years of age.

Q. Have you ever been in detention at San Francisco Youth Guidance?

Center / Juvenile Hall

A. Yes I have. I first had my first encounters, I would say as being a detainee in
1977.

Q. In 1977 do you remember what cottage, or what unit you were in?

A. To be honest with you, I've bee in all the units.

Q. Which was?

A. Would be B 1, B2, B3, B4, B5, and also RU.

Q. Right. And you went to school up there too?

A, Correct, correct.

Q. Do you have any direct knowledge about a Youth Guidance Center teacher that
shock youth with an electric device?

A. To the best of my recollection, the only gentleman I remember that would,

could initiate that type of therapy was a teacher by the name of Mr.
Peterson.

Q, Okay.

A. And basically what would happen was when you first went into the class,
you would be considered as a fish and he would put you on this machine
without you knowing the affects, so in other words, what he would do is
have you stand outside the classroom, hold two metal handles, he'd close
the door, go inside the classroom while all the students are in there and
wind it up, and this, what it does, it ignites and electricity that just, you
know shocks the hell of out you and you can't let go. And while he's
laughing, getting a kick out of it, you know, the kids over there, you felt,
suffering, you know.

Q. Let me got this straight. He wouldn't do this at night secretly but openly in the
Classroom?
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A. Openly. Right. And staff had knowledge to everything and they would
all get a kick out of it. What other staff?

A. Staff such as counselors. The counselors that they had there that
would, you know, be supervising the units.

Q. SO this guy done this openly...?

A. Oh, this went on for a long time. Everybody who has been a detainee and has
been in B4 has direct knowledge to this type of therapy, you know. This thing
was going on for years.

Q. Would you describe the therapy? He would have you hold you hold on
to two metal bars?

A. Correct. Two metal handles that were connected to wires.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And then it was like a little box that was, you know, converted to a box with a
handle as if like those music boxes like you wind up and music comes out of
them.

Q. Right, right.

A. Okay, with, the electricity would come out of this when it shocked the hell out of
you.

Q. And he would crank it himself?

A. Yeah, he would do it himself, and this was something he designed of

his own, you know, own self. Did you witness any other young people got this type of
torture, this treatment by him?

A. Oh, everybody new that came in got it done to them. There wasn’t a person there
that didn't get it done to 'em.

Q. How many people would you say that you seen yourself this happen to?

A. Well

Q. Roughly.

A. I would say roughly, to the best of my recollection, it would have to be maybe 4

or 5 guys, you know, Because being that I did not got along with this guy too
much, I, I, I didn't got to go to school too much because I would not cooperate
 18

with his type of methods, because even at an early age, I knew this wasn't right,
you know, and it's just his methods, you know, it was just his whole personality.
He would come up to you and just talk about you, call you a Nigger, a Mexican,
you know, and get away with it. You'd tell the counselor, say, look, this guy just
called me a Nigger, he's very racial, whatever, and the counselors wouldn't say
nothing. Well you have to put up with it, he's the teacher. And if he told the
teachers would lock, you up, or if he told the counselors, excuse me, if Mr.
Peterson told the counselors to lock you up, it was done like that, you know. So
there 1AMs no getting out of it, you know, you either had to cooperate or remain
detained in your room the whole day until dinner time.

Q. You say that you thought this was wrong

A. I knew it was wrong, you know. That’s why, you know, the majority of
the time while I was in B4, 1 did not attend school, you know, and a
counselor by the name of Nelson...

Q. Nelson?

A. ... Would bring me my books and paperwork because you know him and me had a
very good understanding and, you know, he was pretty much concerned of my
wellbeing. He was the only counselor there that, I mean we had a good
understanding with. So he would come and say, look here follow, here's some
books, why don't you read these books, here some other paperwork. And that was
how I had to, you know, go about enhancing my, you know, my reading
comprehension and my mathematical skills and all that, you know, type of ordeal
because or, because of his, that, that, you know, that...

Q. Nelson.

A. ... direct individual there, because of uh, you know, Peterson. I had to go through
all these obstacles because of that individual right there.

Q. When he was doing this, couldn't you let those bars go? Couldn't just drop them
and walk a way?

A. Oh no, that's what I was telling you, it was like if you stuck your hand into a, you
know, like sticking a nail like in the socket or plug socket, okay?

Q. Uh huh.