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FEATURED INSIGHTS

V. Mohana, Senior Advocate, Supreme

Court of India, on the AOR exam, life in
litigation and role of a Senior Counsel

This interview was taken byDonnie Ashok

Posted on October 9, 2015
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V. Mohana graduated from Coimbatore Law College (now GLC, Coimbatore) in
1988, India’s first batch of the five year law course. She joined the chambers of Mr.
M. Panchapakesan as a junior after graduation, where she had also interned in her
final year. Thereafter, she moved to New Delhi and worked with Ms. Indu Malhotra
and Mr. C.S. Vaidyanathan, enriching her expertise in litigation. After successfully
passing the Advocate on Record examination in 1996, she has been practising
independently in the Supreme Court, Delhi High Court, National Consumer
Commission, etc.

She has worked on matters with eminent seniors like Mr. Kapil Sibal, Mr. K.K.
Venugopal, Mr. P. Chidambaram, Mr. Arun Jaitley, Mr. T. Andhyarujina, et al. She
was also a Panel Lawyer for the Government of India. She was designated as a
Senior Advocate by the Full Court of the Supreme Court of India on 23 rd April, 2015.
In this interview, she talks about:

 Being a first generation lawyer: college life, internships and interest in

litigation
 Moving to New Delhi and establishing her practice
 Cracking the Supreme Court Advocate on Record examination
 Her wide range of practice encompassing various courts, tribunals and as a
Panel Lawyer
 Being one of the few women Senior Advocates of the Supreme Court

PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS. WERE YOU

ALWAYS INTERESTED IN PURSUING LAW? ARE THERE ANY
LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY WHO MOTIVATED YOU TO JOIN LAW
SCHOOL?

I am a first generation lawyer, and I have been practicing for the past 27 years. From
my school days, I was interested in debating, public speaking, theatre etc. I took an
interest in law during my higher secondary education. The sole credit behind my
motivation to do law goes to my Mother. There were no lawyers in our family until I
finished law. Now there are more than three, and a few more in the making.
YOU ARE A STUDENT OF THE VERY FIRST BATCH OF THE FIVE
YEAR INTEGRATED LAW COURSE, INTRODUCED FOR THE VERY
FIRST TIME IN INDIA. WE WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR
COLLEGE. WAS THERE ANY CONFUSION/MISMANAGEMENT,
CONSIDERING IT WAS A NEW CONCEPT?

Yes, I belong to the very first batch (1983-88) of the 5-Year integrated law course
after higher secondary, introduced for the very first time in India in the year 1983.
Our college those days (Coimbatore Law College, Bharatiar University, Tamil Nadu)
was run in a rented premises. There were very few classrooms during the first year
since we were the only batch and the rest of them were three year law students. We
had a small library and a very small room for sports activities.

Our syllabus was structured similar to the present syllabus, but it was not very
detailed. We also studied subjects like Sociology, Economics, Legal History, History
and Legal Language & Legal Writing etc. during the first two years. The rest of the
three years we had subjects like Family Law, Transfer of Property, Constitutional
Law, Income Tax, Insolvency, IPC, Evidence Act, CPC and Cr.PC along with
Drafting, Pleading and Conveyancing.

There was no confusion or mismanagement and, of course, the infrastructure was

limited. There were few teachers and we had hardly two to three classes a day and
only one session either morning or afternoon. There was no hostel for girls and there
were very few girls in the class.

WERE THERE ANY STUDENT ACTIVITIES AND OPPORTUNITIES

SUCH AS DEBATES, MOOT COURTS ET CETERA? WHAT WAS
YOUR TYPICAL DAY LIKE? DID YOU ALSO PURSUE ANY HOBBIES?
There were activities and opportunities such as debates, dance competitions,
quizzes, etc. which were conducted by other Arts & Science colleges in which we all
participated. There were a few moot courts competitions as well that were conducted
by colleges outside the city and state, so participation was difficult. Our typical day
was very relaxed and had only two classes/lectures. We had a lot of free time to
pursue any extra-curricular activities, but we did not have many opportunities. I was
in a working women’s hostel and our timings were very restricted. I used to give
tuitions for school children in my free time.

DID YOU DO ANY INTERNSHIPS? WHAT WAS THE WORK ALLOTTED

TO YOU LIKE?

The concept of internships was not in vogue back then. However, we were regularly
going to court in the morning since we had classes only in the afternoon. During my
final year, I myself went and joined a Senior Civil Trial Lawyer Mr M. Panchapakesan
who is one of the doyens in the Civil Bar in Coimbatore. After a short interview and
after checking my aptitude, he agreed to take me as an intern and I started going to
his office and court in the morning and after college hours. The work I was initially
asked to do as an intern was to note the case diary maintained by the office clerk
which reflected the entire list of cases on a day-to-day basis for the whole year.
Every day we had to note down the date of the particular case in the diary and
maintain it regularly so that we get ready in advance for a trial. This habit is
something I follow to this day. Apart from that, my senior would dictate legal notices,
plaints and written statements which would be taken down by the juniors. I was
asked to re-write the same in big font with triple spacing on white sheets of paper
and give it to the senior for his correction and editing. By this method, I learnt a lot
about drafting and pleading. There was no concept of stenographers in our office
those days. Every pleading, application and written submission used to be dictated
to juniors. I got the benefit of directly taking the dictation from my senior very soon
after I joined as an intern, due to the fact that I could write fast and my handwriting
was legible. I have acquired maximum advantage in profession due to this practice
of taking dictation.

HOW DID YOU MANAGE THE INTERNSHIP WITH STUDIES? HOW DID
THE PRACTICAL EXPOSURE COMPLIMENT THE THEORETICAL
KNOWLEDGE IMPARTED TO YOU IN COLLEGE?

My internship never disturbed my studies. It rather helped me in learning what was

taught theoretically in college. For example, we had papers such as CPC, Cr.PC,
Drafting, Pleading & Conveyancing in the final year. I feel that these papers should
be taught only in the final year. Since I was going to the trial court in my final year
and taking dictation in my office, I could practically learn the application of CPC,
Transfer of Property, Partnership, Filing Suits, etc. due to the personal practical
experience. Even today, it is that training which is helping me. The art of drafting sale
deeds, lease deeds etc also helped me in my conveyancing exam.

DID YOU CONSIDER PURSUING HIGHER STUDIES AFTER

GRADUATION? HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR A LAWYER TO GO FOR
HIGHER STUDIES? WERE YOU INCLINED AT ANY TIME, TOWARDS
THE CIVIL SERVICES?

Honestly, we could not think of pursuing higher studies after doing law. Those days,
even a five year law course was a luxury and we could not afford to think of any
further education, coming from a big family. It is good to go for higher studies if one
can get a good scholarship or afford it. However, it is not compulsory if one is
planning to do litigation in India. Of course, higher studies abroad gives you wide
exposure and analytical approach so it is very helpful. I never thought of civil
services at any point of time since I always wanted to practice in a court of law.
YOU JOINED THE OFFICE OF MR. M. PANCHAPAKESAN UPON
COMPLETION OF YOUR LAW DEGREE, WITH WHOM YOU HAD
INTERNED AS WELL. WHAT WAS THE SCOPE OF WORK?

On completion of my law degree, I continued to work in the office of Mr M.

Panchapakesan. Initially, the scope of work was the same as it used to be during my
internship. Eventually, he would ask me to prepare notes for trial and involve me in
discussions with clients and in taking down depositions of witnesses while it was
recorded in the court room, in order to review it in the evening. We also drafted
plaints in simple suits and some applications. The working hours used to be 8.00
a.m. to 8.00 p.m. He would allow us to go home on Friday evenings. On weekends
we would work full days on Saturdays and half-days on Sundays. It was a pleasure
working there and he would always take good care of us. All other juniors were elder
to me and they would take very good care of me, being the only girl in the office.
They were all like my elder brothers and till date we are in touch like a family.
HOW WAS IT TO APPEAR IN THE COURT FOR THE FIRST TIME? CAN
YOU RECALL ANY SPECIFIC INCIDENT?

It was quite comfortable for me. I was not nervous at any point of time since I have
always been confident and had no stage fear even while in school. Of course,
whenever my senior was likely to be present in court, I would get nervous. The
courts were also very congenial even in those days. I have great respect and
regards for courts and judges but I never got scared. Once, I was moving a
temporary injunction with a very senior lawyer opposing me. When he was not
getting his way, he started saying things like women should not be seen raising their
voices in court and that their place is in the house, to which I replied by saying that if
he has any point in the case he can argue and that such statements are quite
immaterial to the merits of the case. The trial judge also took exception to what he
said, but I never got annoyed or lost my temper. I succeeded in the case. He was a
fatherly figure and a great lawyer. After a few days, he became very affectionate to
me and we both developed a very cordial relationship at the Bar. I only feel that one
should never lose their temper in a court of law and one should always respect one’s
opponent. After all we are not fighting our personal cases!

HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO MOVE TO NEW DELHI? WHAT

DIFFICULTIES DID YOU FACE INITIALLY? WOULD YOU SAY DELHI
PROVIDES MORE OPPORTUNITIES THAN ANY OTHER CITIES?

I was in the trial court till the summer of 1992. I had just then started getting a few
cases of my own, but it was difficult for women in those days to get cases of their
own, especially in small cities. At that time few of my married sisters and two elder
brothers were living in Delhi and my senior advised me that if I wanted , I could try
my hand in Delhi and was welcome to join him back at any time if I felt
uncomfortable. At that point of time my parents also thought that since my sisters
and brothers were in Delhi, it would be easier for me. I had no difficulties in Delhi,
though I came very reluctantly. Through my very best friend and his contacts I joined
the office of Ms. Indu Malhotra, Senior Advocate (then an Advocate-on-Record).

Delhi provides lots of opportunities, definitely better than any other city. Because you
have trial courts, high court, administrative tribunal, MRTP commission (now
Competition Commission, Competition Appellate Tribunal), CESTAT, Army Tribunal,
etc. and of course the Hon’ble Supreme Court of India. So there is a varied practice
and scope for every field.

HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE OF WORKING WITH MS. INDU

MALHOTRA? HOW DID IT FEEL TO INTERACT WITH AND BRIEF
SOME OF THE BEST SENIORS OF THOSE DAYS?

It was a great experience working with Ms. Indu Malhotra. She was one of the
busiest Advocates-on-Record doing a lot of private work from Tamil Nadu, Kerala,
Maharashtra, Punjab & Haryana, Himachal Pradesh etc. She was also the then
Standing Counsel for the State of Haryana in the Supreme Court. That gave me a lot
of exposure and I learnt how to draft Writ Petitions and Special Leave Petitions, do
research work and brief Senior Counsels. We used to get a lot of appearance in
court and that gave me ample opportunity. It was great to interact with and brief
some of the best seniors of those days: Mr Kapil Sibal, Mr. Arun Jaitely, Mr P
Chidambaram, etc. All these seniors would normally allow us to give our view points
in every briefing and also discuss the strategy to be adopted while arguing the case.
It gave me lot of confidence and exposure.

In fact, once in the beginning, I had briefed a senior counsel where we were to
oppose a stay in a Special Leave Petition as caveators, and the petitioners were
represented by a batch of seniors. Those days, a caveator would never get a
Passover when matters are called if the advocates for the petitioner are present.
Even today many courts follow this practice. When this matter was called, the
battalion of seniors were present for the Petitioner and I was seeking a Passover for
our counsel since he was in some other court. Ms. Indu Malhotra was also busy in
another court. But, the Passover was refused and the petitioner argued the matter
for the interim relief. Due to the conference and guidance of the earlier day, I was
successfully able to oppose the petitioners’ counsel and averted an interim order.
This instance gave me a lot of exposure and it was only due to the experience of
working with Ms. Malhotra.

YOU THEN JOINED THE CHAMBERS OF SENIOR ADVOCATE MR.

C.S. VAIDYANATHAN. WHAT PROMPTED THIS SHIFT? WAS THERE A
CHANGE IN THE KIND OF WORK THAT WAS ALLOTTED TO YOU?

In August 1993, I joined the office of Mr. C. S. Vaidyanathan, Senior Advocate.

Though I was learning a lot and getting to appear in court, I thought I had learnt
Drafting to some extent and I needed to sharpen my skills in complete legal research
and counsel work. I wanted to work under a Counsel so I could learn how to prepare
arguments and improve my research skills.. So, I shifted from Ms. Malhotra’s office
to that of Mr. CSV. The nature of work was different in the sense that there was no
work involving the drafting of SLPs, going to the registry and briefing other counsels
etc. Instead, we had to read files, which would come for the Senior Counsel
engagement from different AORs, and prepare notes for the case and do research.
We would participate in the conferences and prepare a list of dates and events and
case law notes. Sometimes the briefs would arrive at the last minute also, so it was a
learning of a different kind.

COULD YOU SHARE WITH US ANY INTERESTING CASE THAT YOU

WERE A PART OF? HOW DID YOU STRIKE A BALANCE BETWEEN
FAMILY AND WORK?
Mr. CSV is a fantastic and an amazing Senior Advocate. He is quick in his uptake,
has wide knowledge and is a brilliant lawyer. There were several reported cases
between 1992 to 1996 that he had appeared in, when I was working under him.
There were several interesting cases. Amratlal Prajivandas case (SAFEMA case: 9
judges matter), Mc Dowell case etc., Jain commission after the death of Rajiv
Gandhi were all good and interesting matters where I got opportunities to learn. I
got married in the meantime, so I had to balance both family and office work. But,
our working hours were not so bad and we had the flexibility to adjust our office
working hours. My husband helped me a lot in all domestic work and so I was able to
manage in office and at home.

DID YOU REQUIRE ANY PREPARATION TO APPEAR FOR THE

SUPREME COURT ADVOCATE-ON-RECORD EXAMINATION? HOW
WAS THE EXPERIENCE? WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO
LAWYERS APPEARING FOR IT?

Yes. One has to plan and prepare for the AOR exam. I had put in a few hours of
study every night for a period of about three months. I was not able to study on all
days or do it at a stretch. In fact my son was born in 1994 and he was very small
when I started preparing for the exam, therefore, it was difficult to concentrate and
study. So I feel that a long time planning for few hours everyday will help one to pass
easily. I was appearing for exams after a gap, so I was nervous while sitting in the
first exam. Thereafter, I became comfortable. My advice to all the lawyers who want
to write that exam is to read regularly and attend the classes conducted by the
Supreme Court for this purpose prior to the exam. Answer all questions carefully and
you can easily pass.
WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE LIKE, TO PRACTICE IN THE NEWLY
ESTABLISHED DISPUTES REDRESSAL SYSTEM UNDER THE
CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT, 1986? HOW WAS IT DIFFERENT, IN
TERMS OF PROCEDURE ET CETERA FROM PRACTICING IN THE
SUPREME COURT AND THE HIGH COURTS? WHICH OTHER
TRIBUNALS DO YOU APPEAR BEFORE?
I started getting cases in the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission.
This is the apex commission which has now the jurisdiction for complaints more than
Rs. 1 crore and also for appeals from State Commissions and Revisions. This has a
summary procedure and evidence in original complaints are by affidavits only. It
gives a quick remedy in respect of consumer disputes. It was a very good
experience for me. In exceptional cases, they do send interrogatories. It is very easy
to practice there if you are thorough with the Consumer Protection laws and related
subjects. I used to appear in MRTP (Now Competition Commission, and Appellate
Tribunal), CAT, and CEGAT (Now CESTAT).

YOU SEEM TO HAVE BEEN A PART OF CASES INVOLVING

SENSITIVE ISSUES LIKE CUSTODY OF CHILDREN OF WARRING
PARENTS. COULD YOU SHARE WITH US ANY EXPERIENCE?

I have done a few custody cases. But, as a Mediator in the Supreme Court I have
handled these more. They are very difficult to resolve and are usually fought bitterly.
In matters of custody between husband and wife, the welfare of the child is always
the paramount consideration.

WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES DID YOU HAVE AS A PANEL LAWYER FOR

THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA? WHAT EXACTLY DOES A PANEL
LAWYER DO? WHAT KIND OF CASES DID YOU HANDLE AS A PANEL
LAWYER?

I have been in the panel for the Central Government for many years. The nature of
work differs from one panel to the other. There are drafting panels and appearance
panels, and I am in the Senior appearance panel. We get the matters and we have
to always be ready to appear. In case the law officers are not able to attend we will
have to argue. I have handled various subjects like civil, service, criminal, narcotics,
prevention of corruption cases, and constitutional law matters etc. It gives a great
exposure and wide range of work experience.

COULD YOU TELL OUR READERS ABOUT THE PRO BONO AND
SOCIO-LEGAL WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE? DO YOU ALSO HAVE
ANY ACADEMIC INTERESTS?

I have been a panel lawyer for the Supreme Court legal services committee and did
a lot of matters during 1996-2013. Now, I appear pro-bono for accused in the
criminal matters concerning murder appeals, etc. I have been appointed as
an amicus curiae by the Hon’ble Court in several matters-both civil and criminal.
Other than that, I am a mediator in the Supreme Court. I attend cases in mediation
for resolving disputes when they have been referred by court. These are all pro-
bono.
I like to read a lot. I used to be an honorary editor for the Supreme Court Reports
(SCR) earlier. Now they have their own editors.

YOU WERE RECENTLY DESIGNATED SENIOR ADVOCATE BY THE

SUPREME COURT. PLEASE TELL US A BIT ABOUT THE
APPOINTMENT MECHANISM FOR OUR CURIOUS READERS.
I was designated as a Senior Advocate by the Full Court of the Supreme Court of
India on the 23rd of April, 2015. As far as I know about the mechanism, we have to
apply stating our experience and range of practice in sufficient copies to be
circulated to the Hon’ble Judges. Then there is a mechanism by which applications,
which have some minimum number of recommendations from the Hon’ble Judges,
are taken to the Full Court meeting. Then there is a voting procedure by which it is
determined.

WHAT ALL DO YOU THINK LED TO YOUR APPOINTMENT AS A

SENIOR ADVOCATE? ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC BENEFITS OF
BEING A SENIOR? IS THERE A RADICAL SHIFT IN THE WORKLOAD?

I think hard work, sincerity, dedication, and consistency are some of the essential
requirements. You also need a lot of blessings from the Almighty, your parents and
elders. J There are no specific benefits of being a senior. In fact the responsibility is
even more now. Of course, the nature of work is very different. Now, I neither need
to do any drafting, nor write letters to clients! My nature of work is to prepare and
argue cases, give opinions, settle pleadings etc. Sometimes briefs come in the last
minute, so work pressure varies.

THERE ARE VERY FEW WOMEN SENIOR ADVOCATES IN THE

SUPREME COURT. WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS?

Yes, there are very few women seniors in the Supreme Court. I feel that the general
tendency has changed now. People have started recognising women lawyers and
their good work. But there should be more designations and elevations from the
women’s section. Women should also work harder and continue to work with
sincerity and dedication. I am sure there is scope for everyone with hope, hard work,
consistency and dedication.
HOW CAN STUDENTS WISHING TO INTERN UNDER YOUR
VALUABLE GUIDANCE GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU? WHAT QUALITIES
WILL YOU LOOK FOR IN AN INTERN?

I encourage interns and they can always write to me on my email if they need an
internship. I look for interns with positivity, willingness to learn and work hard and
with some basic knowledge of the subjects which have been taught in college so far.
Honesty and sincerity are some of the essential attributes I look for in any
intern/lawyer.

THE QUINTESSENTIAL QUESTION: THE NJAC OR COLLEGIUM FOR

APPOINTMENT OF JUDGES?

I will not be able to answer since I have been a part of the team on behalf of the
Central Government in that matter and the judgment is awaited.

WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE FOR OUR READERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE

WHO ASPIRE TO DO COUNSEL PRACTICE? WHAT HURDLES
SHOULD THEY EXPECT AND WHAT ARE YOUR TIPS TO TACKLE
THE SAME?

My message to the readers is: Learn your lessons in college well. Read regularly.
Read law related books and articles whenever you get time. Work hard and be
sincere. Develop your communication skills and improve your vocabulary.

Being argumentative does not mean that you will be a good lawyer. You have to be
clear in your thoughts, talk only when needed in court, read latest case laws and
developments in the law. Be good to all colleagues and be respectful. Dressing well
does not mean dressing expensive. Make a good appearance, be healthy, and
maintain discipline. There is no short cut to success. The legal profession is highly
competitive. In case one is very serious and hard working there is a lot of scope.

More than winning the cases one has to be honest and sincere to the client, and the
court, work hard and suggest the best possible solution for the clients. People don’t
come to us overnight. It takes many years, so be patient. Even if there is only one
case, one has to take it seriously and do their best. There is a lot of work out there
and if one wants to excel there is ample scope.

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1 COMMENT

ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Ridhi Kabra, Trainee, Shearman &

Sterling, on experience in Arbitration
and winning 19th Willem C. Vis

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on October 8, 2015
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Ridhi Kabra graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad in the 2013 batch. She went on to
pursue higher studies from University of Cambridge after being awarded the
Commonwealth Shared Scholarship. Her thesis presentation there earned her the
Nappert Prize in International Law at the McGill University in Montreal. She has had
experience of working with the International Arbitration Team of Shearman & Sterling
LLP in Paris. She has been awarded TAPP Scholarship to pursue PhD from
Cambridge University, which she will be pursuing later this year.

In this interview she talks about:

1. Her experience at NALSAR, winning the 19th Willem C. Vis International Moot
Court Competition;
2. The application process, scholarships, etc. for admission at Cambridge; and
3. Her experience in Arbitration and at Shearman & Sterling LLP

TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOURSELF. WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO

CHOOSE LAW FOR A CAREER?

I was brought up in Calcutta. I went to school at Mahadevi Birla Girls’ Higher

Secondary School. I was lucky to be schooled there, because in the 90s my school
was probably the only school that afforded students the opportunity to excel at
academics and extra-curricular activities. In school, I was involved in swimming,
skating, gymnastics, dance, music and a host of other activities. My mother played a
huge role in giving me a holistic learning experience as a child. Outside school hours
I would go for my bharatnatyam, Hindustani classical music and art training. This
level of exposure had a considerable impact on my life, it taught me that being good
at academics was never enough.

Looking back, I think the reason I chose law was because I did not want to pursue
the more preferred options among students of Calcutta- engineering, medicine,
chartered accountancy, business studies. Since, I found these options very
conventional, I began reading up on different career options and chanced upon law.
Law appealed to the logical side of me. Having no lawyer in the family, it was difficult
to understand what legal education meant. So I decided to join Prime to prepare for
the entrance exams. It was during my coaching at Prime that I met a few lawyers
who ultimately influenced my decision to take up law as a career.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR COLLEGE LIFE AT NALSAR. WHAT ALL

ACTIVITIES DID YOU PARTAKE IN?

Since I had no concrete reason for taking up the study of law, I remember being
quite lost in my 1st semester at NALSAR. I was part of the first batch of students to
be admitted through the common law entrance exams (CLAT). To my good fortune,
this meant that I was surrounded by exceptionally talented batchmates who helped
me learn a lot.
Since I do not come from a legal background, I started with a clean slate. NALSAR
provided the perfect platform to explore different areas of law- so I went from being
interested in intellectual property law in the first couple of years, to constitutional law
and corporate law and then eventually to international law and international
arbitration. For each of these areas of law I tried to develop my understanding better
through a range of activities- internships, participation in various competitions,
publications and the like.
NALSAR gave me the foundation I was looking for. I credit NALSAR for giving me
the opportunity to explore my area of interest, both within the classroom and outside.
At NALSAR, I saw myself participating in both national and international moot court
competitions, presenting papers at conferences and publishing research papers. The
freedom to undertake these activities helped me develop me skills beyond what was
taught in the classroom.

YOU WERE ONE OF THE MOST EXCEPTIONAL STUDENTS AT

NALSAR IN YOUR BATCH AND HAVE GRADUATED 2ND IN THE
BATCH WITH A FEW GOLD MEDALS FOR BEING ONE OF THE
BATCH TOPPERS. PLEASE GIVE US A FEW ACTIONABLE TIPS ON
MANAGING HIGHER GRADES.
I think 5 years is a long time and it is very easy to lose sight of the bigger picture,
therefore one must find reasons to stay motivated. I have always set goals/targets
for myself, challenging yet attainable, and have worked towards achieving those
goals.

I have found it useful to pay attention in class. Listening to what professors have to
say, irrespective of our own assessment of their teaching, and taking notes in class
has worked for me. I have also found it useful to explore concepts in detail instead of
learning by rote. In a field such as law, a little extra reading outside the class room
can set the fundamentals in order and go a long way in developing a sound
understanding of the law.

Lastly, I cannot overemphasize the importance of organization and discipline. Having

a planned schedule for the semester (or just for exam preparation), organized notes
on each subject, etc. is half the battle won.

Having said all of this, there is no set way to manage high grades and is an
individual choice.
YOU WERE A PART OF THE TEAM WHICH WON 19TH WILLEM C. VIS
INTERNATIONAL MOOT COURT COMPETITION. WHAT DOES IT TAKE
TO BE A GREAT MOOTER?

I firmly believe that moot courts are a great way of learning in-depth about a
particular area of law. Further, moot courts are a great way of developing one’s skills
of applying the law to a fact situation. This is what drew me towards mooting in law
school. From the 1st year itself, I began taking part in various national and
international moot court competitions. I was fortunate to have wonderful seniors who
were always willing to provide guidance. My moot court achievements are a direct
reflection of the collective hard work, dedication and skills of the various teams I
have worked with.
Mooting being a team exercise, an individual is only as good as the team he/she
works with. Since a moot court competition takes several months of preparation, it is
important to have a good working relationship with your team members. The
dynamics of the team reflect upon the preparation and performance at the
competition. It is also important to start early and to start with the basics. For
example: for the Willem C Vis Moot, we started our preparation 2 months before the
moot problem was released. During this time, we focussed on strengthening our
basics of the subject areas of the moot- arbitration and CISG. The team would take
turns to discuss a particular topic, so that by the time the problem was released, we
had our foundations in place and could delve into the issues that the problem raised.
The process of cracking a problem aside, a good mooter is one who moots because
he/she enjoys the process and is passionate about it; not because it adds some
value to one’s CV.

YOU HAVE PUBLISHED A FEW PAPERS IN RENOWNED JOURNALS

AND HAVE WON THE KACHWAHA ESSAY COMPETITION TWICE IN
2013 AND 2014. HOW SHOULD ONE GO ABOUT WRITING PAPERS
AND GETTING THE SAME PUBLISHED?

Frankly, there is no fixed way to go about writing a paper. A research paper should
address a recent legal development or a change that is desired in the legal system
and present cogent reasons for the position being taken. A good paper/essay is one
that has a clear structure in place, contextualizes the thesis, and then presents
strong, well-reasoned arguments. I also believe in keeping the language simple,
easy to read and follow. What is said about mooting applies to publications as well:
you shouldn’t write and publish because it checks another box in your CV; you
should write because you want to contribute to the debate.

In order to get a paper published, prepare a shortlist of the journals/law reviews you
want to approach. Each journal has their own requirement. Once you have modified
your paper to meet this requirement, approach the editors of these journals/law
reviews. The process is pretty simple, your paper is reviewed by the editors who
then inform you if they are willing to publish your paper.

TELL US HOW HAS MOOT COURT PARTICIPATIONS AND PAPER

PUBLISHING HELPED YOU IN ACQUIRING SKILLS THAT ARE
IMPORTANT FOR A SUCCESSFUL LEGAL CAREER?

As mentioned earlier, I have found moot courts to be the best way to explore and
learn a particular area of law. Moreover, moots help develop various skills, ranging
from academic to personal. Moots helped me learn how to apply the theory in
practice, improve my legal drafting, build on the ability to work in a group and to
handle competitive, high pressure situations. Moots have also taught me that
presentation and perfection can leave a huge impact. Authoring papers has gone a
long way in improving my legal drafting. It has also helped strengthen my research
and analytical skills.
AFTER YOUR GRADUATION, YOU FURTHER WENT TO THE
UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE TO PURSUE YOUR MASTERS. HOW
DID YOU APPLY FOR THE UNIVERSITY? WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE
TO APPLY TO THE PRESTIGIOUS UNIVERSITY?

Application to the University of Cambridge is a two-step process. Application to the

University has to be made by the middle of November via an online application form.
The online application form consists of a range of questions that seek to assess your
performance (both academic and otherwise) at the undergraduate level, your
reasons to pursue an LLM and similar questions. The application has to be
supported by 2-3 referees.

Once the application form is submitted, the next step involves uploading all the
relevant documents- transcripts, degrees, CV, etc. At the same time, the University
approaches the referees requesting them to upload their recommendations.

Offers of admission are made by the University around March-April.

HOW DID YOU OPT FOR UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE? WHICH
OTHER UNIVERSITIES WERE ON YOUR SHORTLIST?

Given my interest in public international law, the University of Cambridge was an

obvious choice. The list of international law courses offered by Cambridge is
unparalleled and is supplemented by ad-hoc lectures and seminars by visiting
academics and practitioners.

The only other university I had applied to was the University of Oxford. Between the
two, the choice was made based on funding. Since Cambridge offered me a full
scholarship before Oxford, I chose to study at Cambridge.

WHAT ARE THE TOP THREE THINGS ONE SHOULD NECESSARILY

DO IN ORDER TO GET SUCCESSFULLY INDUCTED AS AN LL.M.
CANDIDATE?

If I had to prepare a list of the three things that are most important, they would be the
following-
 1. Consistent record of good academic performance– While Cambridge does not
give undue importance to academic performance like the University of
Oxford, candidates are still expected to have a consistent record of academic
performance. This means, you must aim to be in the top 5-10% of your class.
2. A well-rounded CV– The application form requires you to furnish details of
your achievements, work experience, research projects undertaken and
awards secured. This is to ensure that the selectors can undertake a holistic
review of your achievements, instead of limiting themselves to your academic
performance. It is therefore important for the application form to reflect that
you have excelled outside the class room.
3. Reasons to do an LL.M.– Your application should highlight the reasons you
want to do an LL.M. For instance, I have always been interested in pursuing
academia and that was reflected in my application.

HOW WAS THE ACADEMIC SCHEDULE? WAS THERE A LOT OF

ACADEMIC WORK? TELL US ABOUT THE COURSES WHICH YOU
HAVE UNDERTAKEN DURING YOUR LLM AT CAMBRIDGE.

The rigour of the academic schedule is based on personal choice. The classes are
organized in the form of lectures and small group sessions. For each lecture,
students are assigned readings; while for the small group sessions which focus on
delving deeper into the subject matter, students have the option of submitting an
essay. The Faculty does not believe in enforcing its rules on graduate students- the
idea is to be responsible for your own work. What this means is that you’re free to sit
through the lectures without reading or attend a small group session without
submitting an essay. However, I found sitting through lectures and seminars without
reading to be quite unproductive, and therefore sought to spend a few hours on my
readings everyday. Students are expected to choose 4 subjects. Each subject has a
2-hour lecture every week. Small-group sessions for each subject are generally held
once / twice a month.

I chose a combination of commercial and international law courses- settlement of

international disputes, law of restitution, competition law and corporate finance law.
The idea was to study a combination of subjects I wanted to specialize in
(international law) and subjects I did not get the chance to study at the
undergraduate level (law of restitution, competition law).
GIVEN THAT YOU WENT TO CAMBRIDGE ON A
SCHOLARSHIP, YOU MUST BE HAVING A FAIR IDEA ABOUT
VARIOUS SCHOLARSHIPS; IT WOULD BE GREAT, IF YOU
COULD TELL US ABOUT THOSE TO OUR READERS INTENDING
TO APPLY FOR SCHOLARSHIP.
As a law student, the Commonwealth Scholarships are the most prestigious and
widely available scholarships for Cambridge. There are 2 ways to secure a
Commonwealth Scholarship- you are either nominated by your home country (India)
or the University itself. For the former, application deadlines are generally around the
first week on November; for the latter, the scholarship application is sent with the
university application.

Apart from the Commonwealth, each college at Cambridge has its own set of
scholarships. It is best to conduct an online search on the ‘fees and funding’ page of
the Cambridge website to get a sense of the scholarships available for the year of
study, since some scholarships may not be available every year.

The Cambridge Trust also offers a host of scholarships- either in conjunction with the
Commonwealth Commission or in conjunction with a college. There are a few
scholarships specifically available to Indians, and there are others open to all
international students. The Cambridge Trust also provides part funding to students
with a demonstrated financial need. Again, it is best to check the website of the Trust
for updated information.

Other than the above, there are a number of trusts in India that have also set up their
own scholarships. The Inlaks Trust, the OCSI, the Ratan Tata Foundation, the Aga
Khan Foundation, etc are some scholarships aimed at Indian students intending to
study at any University outside India.
YOU WERE AWARDED THE COMMONWEALTH SHARED
SCHOLARSHIP FOR PURSUING LLM AT CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY.
TELL US ABOUT IT.

The application process is divided into two steps. As a first step, you must specify
that you wish to be considered for the Commonwealth Scholarship in the application
form to the University itself. The University application form requests every candidate
to submit a 500 word essay to support their scholarship application.

The University then creates a shortlist of the students who are to be considered by
the Commonwealth Commission. Once the University informs you that you have
been shortlisted, you are invited to complete the Commission’s application form.
Since the Commonwealth looks for candidates interested in making a difference to
their home county, the application form consists of questions that expect you to
outline how your country would benefit from your education, etc.

The Commission then decides on the merit of the applications and the successful
candidates are informed towards the end of June.

YOU DID A THESIS ON SETTLEMENT OF INTERNATIONAL DISPUTES

UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF DR. MICHAEL WAIBEL FOR YOUR
LLM COURSE. HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE WORKING UNDER HIS
SUPERVISION?

Michael is an amazing supervisor. He understands that the thesis is the work of the
student and therefore refrains from enforcing his own opinion. Instead, he debated
each argument with me, playing the devil’s advocate sometimes, just so I could look
at the issue holistically. He also challenged my thinking by presenting hypothetical
situations to ensure that my work was forward-looking. Michael also doesn’t believe
in spoon-feeding his students. It is the student’s prerogative to approach him, and
decide how best to use the supervision time allotted.

I also find Michael very approachable. No question is a stupid question for him. He is
very patient and is always keen to provide guidance on various matters.

YOUR THESIS WAS AWARDED THE NAPPERT PRIZE IN

INTERNATIONAL LAW AND YOU WERE INVITED TO PRESENT YOUR
PAPER AT MCGILL UNIVERSITY IN MONTREAL LAW. HOW DID YOU
GO ABOUT ACHIEVING THIS?

The Nappert Prize has been instituted by Sophie Nappert, along with the Faculty of
Law at McGill University. I was informed of the prize by Michael, who suggested that
I could send my thesis for the prize.

After tweaking my thesis to meet the requirements of the prize, I sent my submission
in May 2014. All submissions went through a three stage review. At the first stage,
the essays were reviewed by Prof. Andrea Bjorklund of McGill University. The
essays shortlisted by her were then sent to the jury which consisted of Professor
George Bermann, Teresa Cheng, Professor Cordero-Moss, José Ricardo Feris, Meg
Kinnear and Philippe Pinsolle. At the second stage, each essay was reviewed by 2
of the 6 jurors. To be shortlisted for the third stage, each essay had to be approved
by both the jurors. Finally, the last stage involved the shortlisted essays being
reviewed by all 6 jurors.

I was informed that my essay was awarded the Nappert Prize in August 2014. As
part of the prize, I was invited to present my essay at a symposium held by McGill
University. The symposium was part of a conference on the Canada-EU Free Trade
Agreement. Needless to say, I found the opportunity to present my work in front of
some of the stalwarts of the field to be an enriching experience. In particular, I found
their feedback on my work very useful.
DO YOU THINK THAT THE INDIAN LAW UNIVERSITIES NEED A
CHANGE TO MATCH UP TO THE STANDARDS OF FOREIGN
UNIVERSITIES? WHAT CAN BE DONE IN ORDER TO MAKE NLUS
MORE CONDUCIVE FOR LEARNING? HOW DO YOU THINK INDIAN
UNIVERSITIES MAY IMPROVE THE EDUCATION REGIME?

I would be writing a short thesis here if I attempted to answer the above questions
comprehensively. There is a lot that Indian universities can do to provide a healthy
learning environment- by which I do not just mean improving the standard of
teaching.

I have said previously that the Indian education system lacks vision. Enough
importance is not given to individual, original, analytical thinking. A lot of the blame
for this falls on the lack of innovation among the faculty. A good example would be
the answers expected in an Indian law school exam. Professors expect students to
find the ‘right’ answer to a problem, failing to realize that, in most cases, the law may
be open to multiple ‘right’ answers and it is the ability to identify these multiple
interpretations that a professor should be marking. Analytical thinking is developed
by mandating regular readings, introducing recent developments in the law into the
classroom and encouraging students to submit written work on questions that they
find interesting.

Indian universities also need to invest in attracting talent towards academia. In the
current system, academia is looked at as a last resort, for a host of reasons- the pay
is not satisfactory, younger members of faculty are not allowed to teach their subject
of choice, most institutions do not have access to some basic legal resources
(books, online databases, etc.) and for a law graduate starting a career in academia,
it could be a major obstacle to conducting research and producing good work.
Also, foreign universities place a lot of importance on providing guidance to students.
I have had law students asking me the “correct” way to structure a research paper, to
work on cracking a moot court problem, to apply for internships etc. There is a lot to
be learnt from the manner in which assistance is provided abroad- there are
dedicated cells to assist with any and every problem that a law student may face,
regular workshops to teach students how to conduct research or write a paper and a
formal system of coaching for moot court activities, dedicated tutors and mentors to
provide individual assistance, etc. This is a model that Indian universities would do
well to emulate.

YOU HAVE WORKED WITH THE INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION

TEAM OF SHEARMAN & STERLING LLP IN PARIS. WHAT DROVE
YOU TO TAKE UP WORK IN A LAW FIRM?

The intention behind joining Shearman & Sterling was to gain some practical
experience before starting my Ph.D. and shifting to academia. Almost everyone I
spoke to during my LL.M. advised me to commence my Ph.D. only after I had gained
some practical experience. I had applied to Shearman & Sterling while at Cambridge
because Shearman has one of the biggest arbitration practices. The application
process, which involves 2 rounds of interviews (the first by an associate and a
counsel, and the second by a partner) took about 6 months.

While at Shearman, I got to work on both commercial and investment arbitrations.

Commercial arbitration is more experimental- there is more scope to strategize and
innovate. Investment arbitration on the other hand, is slightly more rigid- the broad
contours of the arguments are more standard. I was involved in various stages of an
arbitration proceeding- from discussing the strategy, to drafting memos and claims,
to filing. Such a wide range of exposure ensured that I understood the arbitration
process thoroughly- something that I look forward to using in my Ph.D.
WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON WORK- LIFE BALANCE? HOW DO YOU GO
ABOUT IT?

In a field such as ours, where work hours tend to get crazy, I think it’s very important
to maintain a work-life balance. I think I learnt the art of balancing work and life while
at Cambridge. If there’s one thing we Indians should learn from students abroad, it’s
that. They know how to get the maximum out of a day.

I don’t really have a standard formula. I generally believe in a disciplined life and try
to keep a very comprehensive schedule of things that need to be done on any given
day. As far as I can, I try not to compromise on anything.

YOU ARE GOING TO START YOUR PH.D AT CAMBRIDGE LATER

THIS YEAR. WHAT BENEFIT CAN THE ARBITRATION
PRACTITIONERS DERIVE OUT OF DOING PH.D?

Strictly speaking, arbitration practitioners (counsels) do not gain much from a Ph.D.
Generally, law firms require lawyers with basic skill sets, i.e. lawyers who have an
undergraduate degree, because most of the training is on the job.

A Ph.D. is preferred by people looking to pursue a career in academia.

YOU BAGGED TAPP SCHOLARSHIP AND GOT A FULL

SCHOLARSHIP TO PURSUE PH.D FROM CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY.
HOW DID YOU GET TO KNOW ABOUT IT? WHAT IS THE
APPLICATION AND SELECTION PROCESS? WHAT IS ESSENTIAL
FOR ONE TO SUCCEED IN HIS/HER APPLICATION? PLEASE SHARE
DETAILS OF THE SCHOLARSHIP WITH US.

The W.M. Tapp Scholarship is provided by Gonville and Caius College (G&C). A
simple search on the University’s funding page is sufficient to identify the
scholarships available. I chose to apply for the Tapp Scholarship because I was
looking to have my education fully-funded and was not allowed to re-apply for the
Commonwealth Scholarship.

In order to apply for the Tapp Scholarship, you need to first select G&C as your
preferred choice of college in the University’s admission form. This is because you
need to be accepted by G&C to be eligible for the scholarship. The next step is to
submit a specific application to G&C. For a doctoral degree in law, the research
proposal has to be attached to the application form. The application has to be
supported by two letters of recommendation, preferably by professors you have
studied under/worked with. It is important to have at least one recommendation from
a professor who taught you during the LL.M. course.

The Tapp is a very prestigious scholarship for law students. The basic requirement
to be awarded the scholarship is a 1stin your master’s degree (or its equivalent). For
a doctoral degree, the area of research should be novel, you must have prior
publications and a well-rounded CV. The references also go long a way in supporting
your application.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE FOR THE STUDENTS

PLANNING TO PURSUE HIGHER STUDIES?
Follow your heart, do not let others influence your decision. Dream big and
persevere to achieve those dreams, don’t be side-tracked by minor obstacles. There
is a lot of help available, do not be afraid to ask.
And, use your education to contribute to the (legal) community in whatever small way
you can. We can truly make a difference if each one of us makes a small effort to
improve the education system in India.

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system, importance of moots and internships
 
Iram Majid, Advocate, Supreme Court of India, on career in arbitration and
mediation and future of ADR in India

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Augustine Chatterjee on setting up

independent litigation practice and
being a junior litigator

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on October 7, 2015

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Augustine Chatterjee graduated from University School of Law and Legal Studies,
Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University in the year 2011. An avid debater, he
participated in a number of events throughout college. He wanted to enter litigation
right from the offset and set up his independent practice within 8 months of his
enrolment. His area of practice is civil law, specifically property disputes and
commercial transactions and his work is primarily before the trial courts.

In this interview, he talks about

 How to gain the most from college

 The phase of setting up an independent practice
 Attitude of judges towards new entrants into litigation
 Important skills for the field of litigation

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY WAS THE MAIN FORCE BEHIND THE
DECISION OF TAKING UP LAW AS A CAREER? AS A STUDENT,
WHAT WERE YOUR EXPECTATIONS FROM THE PROFESSION?

For me taking the decision of pursuing law was only because I miserably failed in
almost all my subjects during my plus 2. Science was never my thing I guess. Back
in those days, my opinion about law and courts was primarily based on what is
shown on TV and in movies. Since I was an avid debater throughout my school life, I
chose law as I felt that the ability to convince or win over one with your argument and
speaking abilities is what probably could help the most.

I expected nothing short of a lot of excitement from the profession. The ability to be
able to help the common man and that too while speaking in a room full of people
when everyone’s attention is on you is nothing short of brilliant. Of course now I’ve
gotten used to the feeling. But even then had always expected good things, and so
far I’ve been happy with the way it’s going.

ACCORDING TO YOU, WHAT WAS THE MOST RELEVANT THING YOU

WERE ABLE TO TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR 5 YEARS AT LAW
SCHOOL?

I’m not a very ardent admirer of the term law school. I feel it’s a very foreign concept
which is not necessary to be used here as well. Here in India school is something
different and college is something different. Even though my college itself is called
University School for Law and Legal Studies, but even then I much rather prefer
using the term college instead of school.

I never bothered to study even a single aspect or concept while in college. Most of
my preparation for exams was from Dukkis and Kunjis and with the sole purpose of
passing the exam and not retaining any knowledge. So I really cannot aver that I
imbibed something academically.

However, one thing which might sound a bit unconventional is that I carried with
myself a lot of memories and bonds. Most of the other courses, especially non-
professional courses are not that long and hence people don’t really get that much
time to know each other.

Here in law, those 5 years make you a totally different person and hence what I
came in as is absolutely opposite to what I walked out as. Similar is the case with my
friends. So I guess, the friendships and ties which I established during those 5
wonderful years is what strikes me as the most relevant thing I got from law college.
WHEN AND HOW DID YOU FINALLY DECIDE UPON LITIGATION AS
THE AREA YOU WANTED TO ENTER PROFESSIONALLY?

To be very honest I think it would be when I saw Govinda throw a rubber snake at a
judge in some movie, to prove the theory of self-defense.

However on a serious note, since the first day that I had decided to do law, I knew I
wanted to be a part of the courts and the surrounding environment. So the time of
the said decision would be somewhere around the later stages of my class XII. The
said decision, as I mentioned earlier was purely because of an extremely layman’s
point of view towards the entire ordeal as I thought law was all about speaking
eloquently in court and winning admirations from people listening to you.

The mandatory prerequisite of having to study and actually know the law before
speaking in court never struck me until I entered the profession. But once I became a
part of it, the studying did not seem so bad.

In the world of courts, the more you know the higher chances you have of gaining
money and respect. So that way reading has more incentive as compared to college
where the only incentive was clearing the exam. My decision to do litigation was
based primarily on my attraction towards public speaking since a young age and I
guess litigation gave me that.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR DEBATING EXPERIENCE IN LAW

SCHOOL. WHAT ALL WERE YOU ABLE TO TAKE AWAY FROM SUCH
EXPERIENCES INTO YOUR PROFESSIONAL LIFE?

Debating was a passion since school. I chose to continue the same during college as
well. Debating was extremely fun for me. Not just because I got to do what I liked,
but also because many of the major debating competitions were hosted by colleges
who were based out station away from Delhi and hence the participation in such
contests actually involved planning trips to the said places with friends. I travelled to
at least 6-7 places in the course of debating including Kolkata, Pilani, Bangalore and
Chandigarh and had a blast on all of these trips.

Debating definitely keeps the speaker inside you alive. That in turn boosts your
conversational skills, ability to build an argument structurally and also the ability to
present it in a way that it convinces the listener. This in turn helps a lot in litigation.
For those who are looking to debate, don’t think twice. It’s a great experience with
lovely excursions and brilliant moments.

FOR SOMEONE LOOKING TO ENTER LITIGATION, WHAT WOULD BE

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO LOOK FOR IN INTERNSHIPS?
PLEASE TELL OUR READERS ABOUT SOME OF THE INTERNSHIPS
YOU DID IN LAW SCHOOL.

Most of my internships during Law College were spent either loitering around the
courts with friends or sleeping in Air conditioned CBI Court rooms. I was never
serious about those internships back then. I didn’t even know what I was doing there.
I used to go there only because my friends were doing the same. Had I been a tad
bit serious about my internships back then, it would have helped me a lot more now
in my career.

If you seriously seek to pursue a career in litigation, make sure that from your first to
your fifth year you take advantage of the duration of the course and get an
experience of every sphere of litigation. Invest one month with a trial court advocate.
Learn the basic working and functioning. Then the next time join an advocate
working primarily before the HC.

Most lawyers practice all over the city and not just trial courts or at the High Court
exclusively. So you could join a lawyer who practices before both and see how that
works for you. By the time you’re in your fourth year try following up someone to join
them at an internship at the Supreme Court. Then once you’ve seen how things are
at all levels, choose where you want to work professionally. Remember that your
decision to be at a particular place might differ while you’re interning for a fixed or not
stipend as opposed to when you’re working full-fledged to build a career.

One thing I specifically suggest is not to feel that interning at the trial courts is below
your level. Unless you know how things are at the grass root level you won’t be able
to learn anything substantial. Many High Court lawyers often complain that the
reason while appeals do not stand before the High Court is because the case wasn’t
handled properly at the trial. So focus on learning and joining a senior or firm where
you are entrusted with work and get to learn stuff rather than walking behind seniors
while carrying files. Don’t run after brand names and big shots just to get that tag as
it won’t help you in the long run.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE AREA OF LAW IN WHICH YOU DO

MOST OF YOUR WORK. HOW DOES ONE DECIDE UPON THE
SPECIFIC AREA ONE INTENDS TO TAKE UP ULTIMATELY?

I deal with mostly matrimonial and civil disputes. Amongst civil disputes I like to
believe that I specialize in property disputes as well as commercial recoveries. As
such I chose to specialize in this line because I personally find civil law very
interesting. In my opinion, it is extremely vast and involves the most complex
appreciation of law, especially codified laws. I am an ardent admirer of the way the
Indian Courts interpret civil statutes and hence look forward to handling as many civil
cases as possible. I do a bit of criminal as well.

Deciding on what kind of work you wish to take up while specializing depends on
totally on what you enjoy practicing the most. Matrimonial law is relatively easy and
routine. But it’s financially rewarding. Criminal matters offer hefty earning
opportunities during bails. And of course in civil cases, people literally shell out pots
of money if the property they’re fighting for is actually worth it. So it can be said that
monetary gains exist in all spheres. Even arbitration and other forms of relatively
lesser practiced arenas pay well. So where you specialize depends totally on which
part of law interests you the most. It actually depends from person to person.

WHAT WOULD YOU CONSIDER AS BEING THE TOUGHEST

CHALLENGE YOU HAD TO OVERCOME WHILE SETTING UP YOUR
OWN PRACTICE?

The toughest challenge out rightly would be to get work. As much as I like to regard
what I do as a profession, it is also in some way a business. Every month I have to
spend a fixed amount on expenses such as rent, bills, personal expenditure, staff
salary etc. So the outgoing debit is constant. Now during some months, when the
incoming is not so high, the profit ratio becomes low and so do the opportunities to
save money.

Hence during the initial days, if you are a first generation lawyer, you might just have
to go through a tough time. In fact that’s an understatement. Right at the beginning,
there may be months where you sit alone in your office or chamber waiting for work,
but to no avail. People generally tend to harbor this myth that the older the lawyer,
the better are his skills, which is the biggest fallacy possible. Lawyers perform on
knowledge and not age. No doubt that experience plays a huge role. But that is not
the only criteria.

A young gun who knows what’s where can equally do well. But unfortunately clients
don’t know that. So those times I mentioned where you sit alone without work, don’t
get disheartened. Study, study and study. Invest that time in learning, both theory
and practice. If you don’t have the guts to go through that initial phase, then seriously
don’t opt for first generation litigation.

MOST STUDENTS LOOKING TO TAKE UP LITIGATION TODAY ARE

CONCERNED ABOUT THE DURATION OF TIME IT WOULD TAKE
THEM TO MAKE THEIR OWN PLACE IN THE FIELD. WHAT ARE YOUR
THOUGHTS ON THIS?

This is probably where I reiterate what I mentioned above. The duration of time
cannot be determined as a thumb rule. Struggle is a relative term. For some people
earning around 70K a month is a struggle while for some it’s a Pandora’s Box.

But yes there is a huge buffer period for a first generation lawyer in litigation. Not just
that for those looking to make it absolutely on their own, managing to get real estate
and a set up for an office is also a task. But even then, all things said and done, if
your heart and mind is absolutely set for litigation, then you probably wouldn’t mind
the initial few years where you might have to substantially reduce on those weekly
club visits and that expensive apparel.

If you want to struggle, it will take a lot of time. Neither is there any assurance that it
will eventually work out. I still don’t know whether it will work out for me or not. But if
you’re really up for it, then it’s worth the wait and the suspense. Build as many
contacts as possible, try and maintain a decent friend circle (non-lawyers preferably),
and focus on building yourself as a lawyer by polishing your skills over time.
HOW BALANCED WOULD YOU SAY IS THE ATTITUDE OF THE
JUDGES, ESPECIALLY TOWARDS THE NEW ENTRANTS IN THE
FIELD. ARE THERE ANY MEMORABLE MOMENTS THAT YOU WOULD
LIKE TO SHARE?

Judges are also people. Many of them were advocates at some point of time and all
of them were law students at one point of time. So there’s no reason to be intimated
of judges at any point of time. They are sitting there to impart justice just like you. So
if you do your job on time, don’t pray for unnecessary adjournments and be diligent
and respectful towards your approach, judges shall treat you very nicely.

In fact young lawyers are often let off easier as compared to middle aged advocates.
But don’t expect judges to forego and condone it if you simply appear for seeking
dates unnecessarily as proxy towards your senior. Know what’s written in the file, be
prepared to argue the matter in case the judge isn’t keen on adjourning and always
be up to date with what the law concerning the case is. That way you are no different
than your senior and hence can manage to replace his place in case he or she isn’t
there. Hence no need for the adjournment and no reason for the judge to tell you off.
This is just an example.
There are many other ways in which you can make sure that the judge is satisfied
with your work. Those you shall learn once you’re a part of the profession. But
always remember. Don’t try to outsmart judges. They too are smart enough to be
able to see through stuff when you’re trying to pull one off with them. Be fair and
most importantly be honest. Judges are generally nice. Be respectful while
addressing them. Do your homework on time. Don’t demand things from them.
They’re not obliged to grant you anything. Yet they are obliged to afford opportunities
to you in case you wish to delay the proceedings for some genuine matter. Judges
and lawyers are part of one system i.e. the judiciary. No reason to consider each
other separate from each other.

I’ve been on both sides of the coin. Once when I tried to appear in a court without
being enrolled, I was told off very badly. Yet once a judge declared in an open court
that my argument was probably the best one she had heard the entire year. So no
memorable moment in particular. But so far so good.

WHAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTORS ONE SHOULD KEEP IN

MIND WHILE ATTEMPTING TO BUILD A RESPECTABLE CLIENTELE?

This again is a very tricky aspect. Clients treat lawyers like desserts. If I put a cake in
front of you, and it just appears to be bread and cream, you wouldn’t want to have it
that much irrespective of how much I assure you about it being delicious. But if I put
ten different coloured frostings on it, add some colours, different flavours and fruits
and all that jazz, your mouth will water and you’ll want that. The appearance will
make you want it so much that you shall give it the benefit of doubt by assuming that
it must taste good.

Similarly, if a lawyer has an ironed coat, parker in his pocket, an iPhone in his hand
and a Rolex on his wrist, clients will automatically assume that he is wonderful in
court. It seems cruel and materialistic, but trust me it’s true. No client knows of your
skills prior to engaging you. Most of them come by word of mouth or through
contacts. So during the time when they’re trying to figure out whether they want to
engage you or now, they judge you based on your appearance and your office
environment. It’s cruel and demeaning but that’s how they judge you. You don’t have
to buy all that expensive jazz just to impress clients. But then make sure you are
prim and proper most of the time. Also make sure that you come across to be
confident and dominating.

As far as building clientele goes, make sure you try and meet as many new people
as possible. Make sure they all get to know that you are a lawyer. If necessary, fight
a few cases pro bono so that you gain their trust. Maintain a good network amongst
nice educated people. Also join a club or a gym where you might meet new
people. Basically it’s all about advertising and how you can manage to do it subtly
and not overdo it to make it appear as if you’re trying to sell yourself.

HOW IMPORTANT WOULD YOU SAY ARE HIGHER STUDIES, FOR

SOMEONE LOOKING TO ENTER LITIGATION? CONSEQUENTLY,
HOW BENEFICIAL DO YOU CONSIDER HIGHER STUDIES FOR
OTHER FIELDS THAT A STUDENT MIGHT CONSIDER TAKING UP?

I personally think it doesn’t help if you’re looking to go independent. The money and
time you invest in higher studies can be utilized by you during the initial struggle, if
you’re first generation that is. Firms too judge you mostly on your experience and not
your qualifications. As such litigation is more about practical aspects and not just
theoretical knowledge. So personally I doubt it helps that much.

ON A LIGHTER NOTE, WHAT WOULD BE THE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE

YOU WISH SOMEONE HAD GIVEN TO YOU WHILE YOU WERE IN
LAW SCHOOL?
Invest thirty percent of your energy in studying because that is very important and
will definitely help you eventually. Invest the remaining seventy percent in enjoying
life. Party with friends, go on trips, fall in love and paint the town red. Because that
time of your life will never come back, no matter how much you try.

But most importantly invest hundred percent of yourself in becoming a better human
being. Unless you’re a good person, you can never be a good lawyer.

THIS INTERVIEW WAS TAKEN BY: ARJUN REKHI, II YEAR, GGSIPU

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ENTREPRENEUR & ALTERNATIVE CAREERISTS

Abdaal Akhtar, IAS, on NALSAR, work

at ITC, cracking UPSC, and experience
at National Academy of Administration

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on October 5, 2015
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Abdaal Akhtar graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad, in 2013. He has previously
worked with ITC, Calcutta. He had attempted the UPSC exam twice, and this year
with an all India rank of 35 he made it to the IAS. He is currently undergoing the
Foundation Course at Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration,
Mussoorie.

In this interview he talks about:

 His years in college, and working on a passion for quizzing.

 Working in ITC, Calcutta as an in house counsel.
 Cracking the UPSC exam.
 Experience at Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration,
Mussoorie.

GIVEN THAT MOST OF OUR READERS ARE LAW STUDENTS AND

YOUNG LAWYERS, HOW WILL YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO
THEM? DO YOU COME FROM A FAMILY OF LAWYERS?

I was the first lawyer in my family. My father is a Civil Servant who works for the
Indian Railways and my mother is a homemaker. Taking up law, that too in 2007,
was a rather unconventional choice. This was more so since I then lived in
Hyderabad where Engineering and Medicine ruled the roost as preferred career
options. However my parents had heard of the National Law Schools and were very
supportive of my decision.

WHAT WAS IT THAT GOT YOU INTERESTED IN THE LEGAL FIELD?

HOW DID YOU PREPARE TO GET INTO NALSAR? WAS IT RIGOROUS
PREPARATION OR WAS SOME LUCK INVOLVED?

There was no single incident as such. Probably some of it had to do with my dislike
of Math and Science. But I always had a deep interest in politics, current affairs and
modern Indian history. I do not think there is any other field apart from Law that so
beautifully marries these areas. Credit must also go to the erstwhile LST. Their
website, and the peer group they introduced me to, went a long way in making me
aware of law as a career, the various choices that I could pursue in Law School and
also assuaged any lingering concerns that I had. My preparation was hardly
rigorous. I was studying Political Science in Class 12th and that covered a lot of the
Polity syllabus for CLAT. My GK has always been good-largely due to the excellent
quizzing environment in Hyderabad. So it is fair to say I approached CLAT with a
strong base. Of course there had to be a large dollop of luck involved since I had not
bothered to apply elsewhere.

PLEASE DO SHARE WITH US SOME MEMORIES FROM YOUR FIVE

YEARS IN COLLEGE. DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN EXTRA CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES?

The five years at NALSAR were not only the best years of my life but also
fundamentally changed me as a person. It introduced me to a range of ideas,
opinions and people and taught me to respect opposing points of view. I was again
very lucky as far as my friends circle was concerned-all extremely bright, well read
and smart individuals who helped me grow as a person. Law School was also a lot of
fun-dhaba trips, mass bunks, quizzes and the good times from the hostel. Some of it
had to do with the fact that NALSAR is a self-contained eco system far away from
Hyderabad-so at some level you get to know your college mates much
better. Quizzes were the only extra curricular activity I participated in and a couple
of us went to great lengths to take part in whatever quizzes were being held in the
city.

WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU CAN MAKE LAW STUDENTS MORE

INTERESTED IN STUDYING CONSTITUTIONAL LAW AND PUBLIC
POLICY IN COMPARISON TO, THE MUCH SOUGHT AFTER,
CORPORATE LAW?

Constitutional Law and Public Policy are not subjects that you can force somebody
to develop an interest in. I do tend to think, and I may be wrong, that if you have
chosen Law for the right reasons, a fascination with these two subjects is a given. As
lawyers, we all read the Constitution but few tend to appreciate the beauty of this
document that, to quote Granville Austin, is the ‘cornerstone of a nation’. It offers
none of the monetary incentives that taking commercial law courses can, but one
must realise that if he/she intends to make a career in public life or litigation, a
thorough knowledge of the Constitution is an absolute must.

DID YOU EVER TAKE PART IN MOOTS OR INDULGE IN ACADEMIC

LEGAL WRITING? DO YOU FEEL THESE ARE ACTIVITIES THAT
SHOULD BE LEFT TO THE DISCRETION OF STUDENTS OR
SOMETHING THAT STUDENTS SHOULD PARTAKE IN MANDATORILY
AS WELL?

The great advantage of Law School is that it opens multiple doors for you. You can
do absolutely anything-from activism to entrepreneurship; and Law School would
equip you for it. This is because learning the Law makes you a generally better
informed and smarter person. I would not wish to circumscribe this freedom by
making legal writing or moots compulsory. This will only worsen the pressure that the
sometimes overly competitive law school peer group engenders. For instance, moots
never held any interest for me and I stayed clear of them throughout college. Yet, I
have seen plenty of my friends becoming better lawyers (or law finders) just by
participating in moots regularly. So to each their own.
WERE YOU INTERESTED IN QUIZZING FROM SCHOOL ITSELF? OR
WAS IT SOMETHING THAT DEVELOPED IN LAW SCHOOL? WHAT
ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE OUR READERS, TO FOLLOW THE LOVE
FOR QUIZZING?

Quizzing was something I took up in school and continued throughout Law School.
Quizzing is fun, informative and doesn’t make too many demands on your time.
NALSAR has a very active quizzing culture and my juniors have left us far behind in
the field. I am sure all law students can take a Sunday off every month and attend
any of the quiz clubs in their cities. It would be totally worth it.

YOU’VE HAD A WIDE VARIETY OF INTERNSHIPS DURING YOUR

TIME AS A COLLEGE STUDENT. DO TELL US ABOUT THE PLACES
YOU’VE INTERNED AT AND WHETHER THESE WERE ALL PLANNED
OR HAPPENED ON THE GO?

I had absolutely no guidance regarding internships. So I picked whatever I could-

mostly to explore different facets of the profession. I especially remember my
internship with Mr Raju Ramachandran, Sr Advocate, with great fondness. He
treated me just like he would treat one of his own juniors. He was kind to a fault and
liberal with his time. For a third year student, it was the best initiation into the world of
litigation.

AFTER GRADUATING FROM NALSAR YOU HAD WORKED WITH ITC

LTD IN CALCUTTA. HOW DID THE APPOINTMENT TAKE PLACE?
HOW HELPFUL DO YOU THINK A CGPA IS TO GET RECRUITED?

I had interned at ITC during my fourth year, liked what they did and applied for a job
there largely because everybody else was taking part in the Placements process too.
While my CGPA did play a role, ITC has an intensive recruitment process that
comprises of a written test to check your basics in Law followed by an Interview.

COULD YOU PLEASE ELABORATE ON THE EXPERIENCE OF

PRACTICING LITIGATION IN THE HIGH COURT AND DISTRICT
COURTS, DURING YOUR TENURE WITH ITC?

ITC’s in-house Legal Department is one of the best in the country as far as exposure
is concerned. In litigation, for instance, we were involved in the entire process right
from the cause of action to briefing the senior counsels. The bosses expect you to
shoulder responsibility, take initiative and largely give you the freedom to choose
your course of action. It was baptism by fire and I am thankful for it. It taught me
more law than I probably learned in five years of college.

HOW WAS THE WORK ENVIRONMENT AT ITC? WHAT PROMPTED

YOU TO QUIT IN 2014?

I thoroughly enjoyed my stint with ITC. If I resigned, it was only because Civil
Services was a long cherished ambition and one that would just pass by if I did not
devote my full time and attention to it. My parents did have some reservations as I
was leaving an excellent job but again they came around when they saw that I was
insistent on giving a serious shot at the Civil Services Exam. I reckoned that if I were
to have any regrets a decade down the line, they better be about the fact that I tried
and failed at what I wanted to, rather than that I never even tried.
YOU ATTEMPTED UPSC TWICE. WHAT WAS THE ROUTINE YOU
FOLLOWED EVERYDAY TILL YOU CRACKED THE EXAM? HOW
LONG DID YOU SPEND PREPARING FOR IT?

I had my first shot at UPSC while working full time at ITC. The fact that I could make
it to the Railways without any serious preparation emboldened me to give another,
better prepared shot at it. I resigned and moved to Delhi as my father is posted
there. In the five months that followed, I spent no more than 4-5 hours daily
preparing for the exam. I must add a note of caution that I could make it with this
amount of preparation only because I had a strong base in GK from regular
newspaper reading. I did not feel the need to join any coaching institution. A large
part of the UPSC General Studies syllabus is nothing but basic Constitutional law
that college had already equipped me for. The rest of it was easily managed through
regular self study over half a year.

WHAT DID YOU DO TO KEEP YOURSELF ABREAST OF ALL

DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL CURRENT AFFAIRS? HOW DID
YOU STUDY FOR STATIC GK?

There is no better source than newspapers and the Internet for current affairs. An
Indian Express or a Hindu is an absolute must. Some people make notes. I did not.
You have to choose your own approach. Static GK is best done from NCERTs and
certain standard textbooks. I must add that a regular reading habit also helps your
immeasurably. It does not matter what you read, as long as you do.

LAKHS OF PEOPLE ATTEMPT THE UPSC PRELIMS AND ONLY A

THOUSAND GET SELECTED FOR THE MAIN WRITTEN EXAM. WHICH
ARE THE PRIME SKILLS AND EXPERTISE REQUIRED TO CRACK THE
PRELIMS?

A broad and eclectic reading habit is the surest guide to cracking the Prelims. This is
not something that can be mastered in a few months and only comes with a genuine
interest in the broader world around you. One must be updated with the important
events happening both in India and abroad-a task that the Internet makes very easy.

WHAT MADE YOU PICK IAS OVER THE OTHER SERVICE SUCH AS
IFS, IRS OR IPS? HOW DO YOU WANT TO SERVE THE NATION?

The IAS is the supreme generalist service. It expects you to become a Master of all
Trades. Thus the challenges it throws up are varied and never ending. I thought it
would be an exciting way to spend the next three decades of my life. This takes
nothing away from the specialization that an IFS or IPS career expects. These two
approaches have their own merits and drawbacks. Serving the nation is a misleading
term. As Pt Nehru said in his Tryst with Destiny speech, the service of India is
actually the service of her hungry and poor millions. That should be the primary
motive of anybody aiming for a career in the Civil Services. If you cannot take the
rigours of serving in the remotest corners of the country, trying to make sure that the
Government’s welfare schemes benefit those they were intended for, then this
career is not for you. Honesty, integrity and strength of character are today much
abused and frequently bandied about terms, but one must attempt to live these
ideals every day during his/her time in the Civil Services.

WHERE IS YOUR TRAINING FOR IAS BEING HELD? WHAT IS THE

DURATION? DO GIVE US SOME INSIGHT ON THE EXPERIENCE SO
FAR.
As a probationer in the IAS, I am currently undergoing the Foundation Course
common to All India and Central Services at Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy
of Administration, Mussoorie. This is a four month long course that seeks to expose
you to certain basics of law, economics and political science that are a must for all
Civil Servants. It also seeks to build your character and expose you to varied
influences through regular treks, group activities, cultural events, village visits and
lectures by eminent personalities. It is an extremely hectic yet rewarding time of any
Probationer’s career.

DO YOU THINK LAW STUDENTS MIGHT HAVE AN EDGE WHILE

PREPARING FOR THE UPSC EXAM?

Law students have a great edge while preparing for the UPSC. As I have already
mentioned, close to half of the GS syllabus is nothing but basic Constitutional Law.
The ability to think logically, write crisply and present multiple sides of an issue are
some other traits that lawyers cultivate and UPSC rewards in its exams.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO LAW STUDENTS AND

LAWYERS WHO ASPIRE TO BECOME A CIVIL SERVANT?

The Civil Services as a career is extremely challenging. You have to balance your
personal and professional lives with the onerous duties that are placed on your
shoulders. You are accountable not to a mere boss but to the people of India. Your
indiscretions and mistakes will not lead to a mere delayed promotion but will have
real, lasting consequences on the lives of millions. The pay is enough for a
comfortable living but is obviously nothing compared to what commercial law firms
pay. So do keep these factors in mind when you decide to take the plunge. As I have
already mentioned, there is only one good reason to take this up-a genuine desire to
serve your country and its people with Constitutional values as your sole guide. If
your reasons are different, then you will never be able to see the rewarding side of
being a public servant.

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INTERVIEWS

Vineet Shingal, Associate Partner,

Khaitan&Co. on the role of a partner
and in-depth law firm experience

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 29, 2015
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Vineet Shingal graduated in B.A. (Hons) Philosophy from St. Stephen’s College,
Delhi University and later completed his law from LSE in 2006. He secured the LSE
Undergraduate Scholarship on merit and, in addition to being a lawyer registered
with the Bar Council of Maharashtra & Goa, is a non-practising Solicitor of the Law
Society of England and Wales.

He briefly worked with Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu, Japan on a secondment as

a visiting attorney. Post the secondment, he was promoted to Senior Associate at
Amarchand Mangaldas. Vineet later moved to Khaitan and Co., Bangalore and is
currently an Associate Partner.

In this interview he talks about:

 Studying law post a degree in Arts

 Securing the LSE Undergraduate Scholarship on merit
 Becoming a non-practising Solicitor at the Law Society of England and Wales
 His work experience with Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu, Japan
 Responsibilities as a Senior Associate at Amarchand and Associate Partner
at Khaitan.

COULD YOU TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR FAMILY AND

PERSONAL BACKGROUND? WHAT WERE YOUR AMBITIONS AS A
CHILD, WHAT DID YOU DREAM ABOUT YOUR FUTURE?

I have had the privilege of a diverse and a sound academic and non-academic
background largely due to my upbringing in a family that put so much stress on all-
round development of the personality. While my paternal grandfather was a lawyer,
some of my other family members, including my father were bureaucrats. My mother
is a qualified teacher but gave up teaching to look after me and my younger brother.

From the very beginning, the atmosphere I was raised in had always been one
where learning, participation and contribution were strongly emphasized.
Academically, I did very well in school, and at different stages of my school and
college life, I wanted to do a myriad of things without limiting my career choices. I
grew up listening to and participating in discussions on legal and political issues from
quite a young age and was naturally inclined so. As such, I decided to read law when
I was in college.

UNIVERSITY OF DELHI IS CONSIDERED AS ONE OF THE BEST

UNIVERSITIES IN INDIA IN TERMS OF EDUCATION, CULTURE AND
OVERALL ATMOSPHERE. PLEASE TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR
TIME AT DELHI UNIVERSITY.

I read Philosophy at St. Stephen’s College in Delhi and was privileged to be a part of
such an elite academic institution. We were a small batch and had three professors
who taught us right through college. Professors used unconventional teaching
methodologies and at times a non-classroom environment for having discussions on
esoteric topics, which certainly made for effective learning and added to the pleasant
memories I have today.

I also participated in a number of extra-curricular activities including dramatics.

Besides reading Philosophy at college, I also pursued chartered accountancy and
worked part time as an articled clerk during my college years, which gave me a good
background of corporate, accountancy and tax laws.

WHAT MADE YOU CHOOSE LAW AFTER FINISHING YOUR

BACHELOR OF ARTS? DO YOU HAVE LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY?

Studying Philosophy gave me the opportunity to apply principles of logic in a wide

range of contexts, including both ethics and metaphysics. The study of Philosophy
also helped me assimilate and synthesize a large amount of written material in a
relatively short period, which is a great asset in the legal field. I had also gained
some knowledge of corporate and tax laws because of the chartered accountancy
course that I pursued. My paternal grandfather was a lawyer and greatly influenced
my life and as such I decided to take up law.

YOU WERE AWARDED THE LSE UNDERGRADUATE SCHOLARSHIP

ON MERIT, PLEASE TELL US MORE ABOUT HOW YOU GOT THIS?
HOW CAN A STUDENT GO ABOUT THE ADMISSION PROCEDURE?

In 2002, the LSE admission process required us to fill a UCAS form, with one
recommendation from a college professor and a statement of purpose. While I was
admitted to the law course by the LSE, it was dependent on my securing an overall
first class in my Philosophy course, which I did.

Once the admission process was over, I had to fill out a separate form for an
undergraduate scholarship. The scholarships were awarded partly on merit and
partly on need. Post an interview with the academic council, I was awarded a tuition
fee waiver. I am not sure if the admission and scholarship process still remains the
same.
WHAT ALL WOULD YOU RECOMMEND TO A LAW STUDENT WHO
HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY AT LSE?

London is a financial and cultural center and LSE (The London School of Economics
and Political Science), being located in the center of London, had access to
professionals from leading law firms, accounting firms, and other financial
intermediaries, who would often visit the institution to mentor, and also to participate
in seminars and conferences.

LSE is an interesting mix of nationalities from all over the world and you can learn
about so many different cultures. My class had 180 students from 50 different
nationalities. The Socratic method of teaching, an encouraging atmosphere, and
interaction with so many people from across the world broadened my horizons and
led to a holistic development of my personality.

LSE is a world class teaching institution and I would definitely recommend people to
take up the learning opportunity at LSE, if they get one.

DO TELL US THE PROCEDURE INVOLVED IN BECOMING A NON-

PRACTISING SOLICITOR AT THE LAW SOCIETY OF ENGLAND AND
WALES.

One of the ways of qualifying as a solicitor of England and Wales is to complete two
years of work experience as a lawyer and write the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test
(QLTT). This two years’ experience could be completed in India as it follows the
English common law legal system. I completed the two years’ of practical experience
working in an Indian law firm and then passed the QLTT.

If a solicitor is not practicing the law of England & Wales and has not obtained a
practicing certificate, such a lawyer can apply for and continue to be on the rolls of
the Law Society as a non-practicing solicitor, which I currently am. I understand that
the test has recently undergone some changes including the work experience
requirement.

CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE AT THE

LAW FIRM, NAGASHIMA OHNO & TSUNEMATSU, IN JAPAN? WHAT
WAS IT LIKE TO WORK THERE AS A VISITING ATTORNEY?

The Japanese are the most welcoming and polite people. Their deep rooted
traditions, respect for each other and an honest desire to learn sets them apart.

I was at NO&T, Tokyo for an eight week secondment program. There were four non-
Indian law students and another non-Indian lawyer from a law firm in the same
program. It was a good mix of cultures where we exchanged knowledge of our
respective legal systems and procedures with each other as well as our host
lawyers. Our host lawyers also introduced us to their legal system and working styles
as well as their culture and traditions. All in all, it was an amazing experience.
WHAT DIVERTED YOU TOWARDS THE FIELD OF CORPORATE LAW?
SHARE WITH US ANY EXPERIENCE WHICH HELPED YOU MAKE
YOUR CAREER CHOICE.

While I was at the LSE, I took up tax and corporate law as my specialist subjects. I
also had the privilege of interacting with lawyers from diverse practice backgrounds
(litigators, solicitors, in-house counsels) while in London and in India through my
internships.

I had the first-hand experience by interning at barrister’s chambers, law firms and
with legal departments of companies. This gave me a broad idea about each
practice area and the type of work each is involved in.

In India, I interned at AMSS and really liked the energetic work atmosphere and
working on cutting-edge legal issues and deals. I wanted to be a part of it and
applied for a corporate job there.

AS A SENIOR ASSOCIATE IN AMARCHAND & MANGALDAS &

SURESH A. SHROFF & CO., IN MUMBAI, WHAT WAS THE WORK
EXPERIENCE THAT YOU GATHERED?

I started with the securities markets team but made a shift to the M&A/ corporate
team very early in my career. A lot of my time in my early years was spent in legal
data rooms undertaking due diligences.

I was fortunate to work with and be mentored by some of the best legal brains that
the industry had to offer. There was an unending flow of transactions, ranging from
corporate advisory work to very complex M&A transactions. With seniority comes
more responsibility and one has to learn to manage time efficiently.
PRESENTLY YOU ARE AN ASSOCIATE PARTNER AT KHAITAN &
CO., WHAT ARE THE MAIN AREAS OF LAW THAT YOU DEAL WITH?
WHAT DOES A PARTNER HAVE TO DO AT A BIG LAW FIRM LIKE
THIS? WHAT IS A TYPICAL WORKDAY LIKE?

I focus mainly on corporate advisory, M&A and private equity investments. While
execution capabilities and good technical skills are a given, a partner has to really
focus more on business development, client handling and financial management.

Keeping the team motivated and ensuring that the juniors get a good mix of work
and training is also important. Mentoring thus becomes a very important aspect of a
partner’s role. A typical work day would include reviewing advice, structuring and
negotiations on transactions and business development meetings

WHAT SKILLS AND QUALITIES DO YOU THINK HAVE HELPED YOU

ACHIEVE YOUR CURRENT POSITION AND STATURE?

I can largely attribute my achievements to certain moral codes that I hold on to in life.
Foremost, the values of honesty, integrity and uprightness in professional life and
every day conduct have helped me observe the distinction between right and wrong,
and question and reason out why things are often not as they ought to be. I would
add determination, hard work and perseverance as some of the other qualities that
have helped me in pursuing my goals.

WHAT ARE THE SKILLS A LAW STUDENT SHOULD TRY TO IMBIBE

TO SUCCESSFULLY CARVE OUT A NICHE IN THE CORPORATE
WORLD? COULD YOU GIVE OUR READERS SOME TIPS ON ACING
THE PROFESSIONAL REALM?
Pursuit of knowledge and to truly enjoy what one is doing. This is true for any
profession. It is also very important to be sincere and hard-working as people are
competing with some of the best legal brains that the law schools have to offer.
Commercial awareness as well as good communication and social skills would
definitely be an asset.

MANY YOUNG LAWYERS AT CORPORATE FIRMS COMPLAIN ABOUT

THE WORK BEING TOO EXHAUSTING, AND THAT MAINTAINING A
WORK-LIFE BALANCE IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE. COULD YOU SHARE
ANY ADVICE ON THIS?

There have been times when I worked three days in a row with just two hours of
sleep but there have also been times when I have left office at a decent hour. It is
definitely important to have a work-life balance.

I have seen a lot of people getting burnt out very early in their career and quitting.
The HR and the senior management do realize that it is important to retain good
talent and not let people quit due to over work.
Khaitan & Co has a wonderful atmosphere for a work-life balance and lawyers do get
their annual holidays and the time-off. There are obviously times where people have
to put in the long hours due to the dynamic nature of the work we do but with good
training and effective time management, it can all be managed very smoothly. Being
in office for 14-16 hours on a regular basis is really not the norm any more.

WHILE HIRING, WHAT SKILLS DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A

PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEE? WHAT QUALITIES SHOULD A LAW
GRADUATE POSSESS TO BE SUCCESSFUL?

A candidate should demonstrate willingness to learn, adapt and an ability to think out
of the box. While CGPA is a determining factor, we also look at the overall
personality and problem solving approach within a candidate besides the various
extra-curricular activities that the student has participated in.

It is important to have developed a holistic personality. It is also essential to have a

strong grasp of basic subjects like contracts and company law besides keeping
abreast of the legal developments taking place.

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ENTREPRENEUR & ALTERNATIVE CAREERISTS

Rohan Mahajan, Founder,

LawRato.com, on starting up and
pursuing legal entrepreneurship

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 28, 2015
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Rohan Mahajan started out as a Bachelor of Science from Hans Raj College, Delhi
University in 1997, but destiny had other plans for him. Right after in 2000, he opted
for law from Campus Law Center, DU, which in turn lead him to his first employment,
that with Bharti Airtel Limited. After 4 more job changes from 2002 till 2013, he finally
found his niche in the wonderful world of entrepreneurship – beginning his own
startup LawRato.com to reach impeccable success and job satisfaction.
In this interview, he talks to us about:

 The conflict between the head and the heart in choosing a career;
 The journey of establishing LawRato.com;
 The attractive aspects of legal entrepreneurship; and
 The necessity to choose a career that truly fulfils you.

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR PRE-COLLEGE DAYS. AS A YOUNG
ADULT, WHAT PLANS DID YOU HAVE FOR YOUR FUTURE?

A warm hug to all the SuperLawyer readers here. I come from a family of scholars,
and I have two elder sisters who were quite meritorious themselves. While it certainly
is a blessing, it turned out to be a tough one, as I had to not only compete with my
classmates to get grades better than them, but the competitive environment was
equally tough at home as well. So yes, I have been brought up with a sense of
competition, and winning is in my genes – a trait quite important in the startup world,
where we strive to be the best each day.
YOU ARE A B.SC. (HONS) GRADUATE FROM HANS RAJ COLLEGE,
NEW DELHI. WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATION BEHIND YOUR DECISION
TO PURSUE LAW? ARE THERE ANY LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY?

Those were the last few days of my graduation days at Hans Raj College, and I
remember I was sitting quite confused in the college lawns. While my heart was
pushing me to pursue an MBA and get a cushy corporate job, my mind was fighting
my heart to go ahead and get into a Law college, as I was always fascinated by the
authority that the legal profession enjoys, and was always annoyed by people who
did not abide the laws. With my father being a practicing lawyer, I suppose I was a
little biased, and ended up deciding to pursue law post my graduation.

WAS CAMPUS LAW CENTER, NEW DELHI ALWAYS YOUR CHOICE

FOR LAW SCHOOL, OR DID YOU APPLY TO OTHER COLLEGES AS
WELL? WHAT WAS THE PROCEDURE TO SECURE ADMISSION
BACK THEN IN THE YEAR 2000? WAS THERE A LOT OF
COMPETITION?
Well, with the heart and mind in sync, after their tussle ended up in the mind winning
over the heart, the next step was to figure out where to head to in order to get my
legal robes. Being a North Campus guy for 3 years, Law Fac, DU was the obvious
and only choice, as the thought of continuing coming to the north campus for another
3 years was too exciting to even consider any other law college. You know, once you
are sure what you are looking for, achieving it is just a few steps away. I studied hard
for the entrance, and came out with flying colors to join the Campus Law Center,
Law Faculty, Delhi University as a law student.

OUR READERS WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR LAW

SCHOOL DAYS. TELL US A BIT ABOUT IT.

Honestly, the only memories I have from my law school days are those of gorging on
food (especially the mutton kebabs at Delhi School of Economics), shopping at the
Bunglow Road (North Campus, DU), and helping friends contest the Law Fac
elections. As far as studies go, I have always applied logics in everything I have
studied, and this ensured that there were no difficulties whatsoever in moving from
my science background to the legal studies.

YOUR MARKETING CAREER SPANS AN IMPRESSIVE 15 YEARS

ACROSS VARIOUS INDUSTRIES. HOW HAS THE JOURNEY BEEN?

It’s said that in the end, the heart wins over the mind. Back then in my 3rd year of Law
college, mobile phones were still a big deal, and were a privilege to only a few. I
desperately wanted to own one, and my desire became so bad that I even started
dreaming of owning one. I suppose the Almighty saw my desperation, and one of my
close friends told me about a job offer with Airtel. One of the best days of my life
were scripted when the HR offered me a meagre salary, but a Nokia Handset and an
Airtel SIM with unlimited calls as part of my remuneration. I cannot describe in words
the happiness one gets when one’s dreams come true, quite literally. This first
corporate job was followed by another, and then another when I joined this
Marketing agency which not only taught me the A to Z of marketing, but also made
me travel half the world. This was another dream come true, when your passion
becomes your profession and you don’t even know how a decade passed by.

YOU’RE THE FOUNDER AND CEO OF LAWRATO.COM. PLEASE TELL

US ABOUT LAWRATO. WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO EMBARK ON THIS
ENTREPRENEURIAL JOURNEY?

Back in 2009, I was working in Singapore & Jakarta, Indonesia. A legal issue
cropped up during my stint, and surprisingly, I was left dangling for help. Even in the
age of internet and globalization, I had no platform to seek a verified and a reliable
solution to my problem. It occurred to me how there would be many more stranded
like me. And hence, the seeds of LawRato were sown.

There is no way whatsoever by which a common man can evaluate and identify the
right lawyer for their legal situation. With no data available on the lawyers’
performance and track record, its next to impossible to tell which lawyer would be the
right one for your need. It becomes more difficult, as unlike healthcare, where there
are clear specialists for different healthcare problems (cardiologist, neurologist, etc.),
lawyers take up matters across multiple practice areas and there are no defined
specialists for each practice area like property matters, matrimonial matters and
others.

With 3 Crore pending matters and 17 Lac new cases filed each month in various
courts in the country, there was no transparent way to get access to the right lawyer
so far. This becomes graver as 1 in 5 clients seeking legal consultation files a case.
This makes it a whopping 1 crore consultations each month. With most of us not
knowing where and how to find the right lawyer, we end up either reaching out to
someone through a close reference or finding one through local directory listings.
Either of these routes have no way to promise the credibility and quality of the lawyer
as references are mostly based on 1 or 2 past experiences and local listings have no
control over who is listing themselves as professionals.

A lot of clients end up in legal issues where they need a counsel to represent them in
a faraway city. Be it a property situated in another city where relatives are having an
illegal possession or a cheque bounce matter where the other party has filed a case
in another city or matrimonial matters where one of the spouse has gone to his / her
parental home thousands of miles away and pressed criminal charges in the local
police station, the need to a local counsel in that city is of utmost importance to
ensure the matter is handled in the most appropriate manner.

We have top rated verified lawyers in 110+ cities in India, and one can consult with
them with a click of a button at the platform. Clients needing lawyers in faraway cities
have actually called us as life-savers as we not only save them the time needed to
physically travel to another city to find the right lawyer, but as mentioned earlier,
even if they would have travelled to the city, there was no way to evaluate and
identity the right lawyer so far. In today’s world where everything is so connected and
transparent, having access to top level legal support is certainly the need of the hour.
LawRato.com ensures that this need of having access to transparent & guided legal
support system is covered with their highly curated and verified lawyer listings and
ratings and reviews for each lawyer on the platform. The team conducts in depth
online and offline verification of each lawyer before getting them onboard which
includes verification through referral. Each user consulting a lawyer on the platform
gets to rate and review them once the consultation is received.

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO OUR READERS HOW LAWRATO.COM

FUNCTIONS. HOW DO YOU MANAGE YOUR EXTENSIVE DATABASE
OF LAWYERS ACROSS CITIES AND VARYING FIELDS OF LAW?

LawRato.com works as an introduction-cum-Service partner for the clients and also

Top Rated Verified Lawyers across any city and any court in India.
It handholds the user right from the initial consultation with the lawyer to the final
outcome of the case. The portal offers multiple modes of engagement in the form of
email, phone, video calling, meeting & their home/office meetings to avail the
services of the listed lawyers. The aim is to set transparency and trust in a highly
cluttered and disorganized Legal Industry in India.

COULD YOU ALSO INTRODUCE US TO YOUR TEAM?

The Team:
Rohan Mahajan (Founder & CEO)
 A law graduate from Law Faculty (DU), obsessed with helping solve people’s
problems
 Operations specialist with 14 years’ experience in BTL marketing across
APAC.
 Spearhead of Wizcraft’s BTL operations. Expanded Digitas’ operations in
Indonesia as Country head – Handled field sales & telesales teams.
Nikhil Sarup (Co-Founder & CTO)
 A software engineer by education, still putting his B.Tech(CSE) degree to
good use, coding open source apps.
  16 years’ experience in Digital & Direct marketing. Previously headed digital
strategy for Razorfish & Digitas India. Deep expertise in E-commerce
platforms, CRM systems, and social communities.
The crazy duo are supported by a team comprising of 4 law graduates who handle
all incoming client requirements, and 2 marketing and relationship managers who
take care of lawyer onboarding, management and other PR activities.

HOW DO YOU PLAN TO EXPAND LAWRATO.COM, IN TERMS OF

OPERATIONS, INFRASTRUCTURE, AS WELL AS ATTRACTING MORE
INVESTMENTS? CAN WE EXPECT A MOBILE APP SOON?

We have received angel funding a few months ago, and are chasing tough targets
which are reviewed on a weekly basis, since the aim is to achieve a sizeable traction
before raising the next round of funding. We currently have 500+ top lawyers on-
board, across 100+ cities and are targeting to take this number to 3000+ lawyers
across 200 cities in 6 months from now. We are happy growing a little slow, since
our process of bringing new lawyers on-board involves online and offline verification
of the lawyer’s credentials, as the quality of lawyers we offer is the best in the
business and that’s what sets us apart from any competition. On the User traction,
we are currently getting 1500 daily site visitors and 100 client requirements per day,
out of which we are able to help 5-10 clients hire a lawyer through the portal. We
have been reaching a measurement of growth at @ 10-15% on a weekly basis, and
are now aiming to handle 10,000 visitors and 1000 client requirements per day in 6
months from now. A user app and a separate lawyer app that enables onboard
lawyers to answer client queries and manage their client appointments, are under
development and are expected to be launched in October / November 2015.

WILL YOU BE PRACTICING LAW IN THE NEAR FUTURE? DO YOU

AIM TO DO PRO BONO WORK?
Honestly, practicing law is on my mind, but not for another 4-5 years, atleast. I really
want to get involved in pro bono practice to take up matters of public interest. The
idea is to grow LawRato.com to a level where we are able to take up CSR projects
and offer free legal aid to the needy. I would love to do this in association with the
Government’s legal aid program.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE FOR OUR READERS,

PARTICULARLY YOUNG LAWYERS AND LAW STUDENTS, WHO
WISH TO FORAY INTO ENTREPRENEURSHIP?

Entrepreneurship is for people who want to see a change in the way they lead their
daily lives. If you feel that you can, in some way, impact the life of a few people, give
your idea a shot and see how it works. If your prototype is able to impact even one
person’s life, go ahead and get involved in full time entrepreneurship. However, also
remember that there is nothing such as work-life balance if you are looking into
starting up on your own.

One of my favourite quotes is – In entrepreneurship, you live a few years of your life
like no one else does, so that you can live the rest of your life like no one else can!

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INTERVIEWS

Deepa Kuruvilla, Founding Partner,

Qwinlaw Legal, on experience with the
JAG, the Indian Army, litigation at
Bombay HC and work in Securities

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 23, 2015

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Deepa grew up in a traditional Kerala Christian family, studied at the Ernakulam Law
College, under Mahatma Gandhi University, graduated in 1993 and started practicing
at the Kerala Trial Court. She later appeared for JAG and worked with the Indian
army for five years. She was also a part of the gender discrimination case filed by
the Army nurses. After her experience with the Army, she pursued her independent
practice at the Mumbai High Court and has been a panellist for SEBI before
Securities Appellate Tribunal. Off late she has started her own law firm with the
name Qwinlaw Legal.

In this interview she talks about:

 Pursuing her dreams and be where her calling is.

 Taking up JAG and the application procedure.
 Setting up her own independent practice and being a panellist with SEBI.
 Establishing her own law firm – Qwinlaw Legal.

PLEASE TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOURSELF.

I am a consummate Legal professional with a high say do attitude who likes to meet
new people and possibly try to translate the meeting into business opportunity. I am
interested in willing to learn and sync present to the future. I see myself as a smart
working Lawyer than a hard working Lawyer whose goal is to find opportunities in
helping people who avoid litigation than fighting lengthy litigation for them.

One can see in me a perfect blend of a daughter, sister, mother, a wife, a village girl,
a legal professional, a tough army officer, a budding entrepreneur in legal industry. I
enjoyed each role in its sanctity and have always done things away from my own
comfort Zone!
HOW HAS YOUR PRE-COLLEGE LIFE BEEN LIKE? WHAT WERE
YOUR AMBITIONS BEFORE JOINING COLLEGE?

I was born in a very traditional Kerala Christian family and lived and grown up in a
small village called Mannoor 30 Km Away from Kochi Airport, in the plains of the
pictorial perfect Kerala in a house closer to extensive paddy fields, Butterflies and
flowers were my friends! Dancing around the coconut trees and painting were my
hobbies! Putting legs in to the flowing streams near the paddy field and watching
fishes playing with my leg and enjoying the sweetness of the westerly wind blowing
from the paddy field were the most interesting thing to pass time.

That was a world without Television sets, TV came to neighbouring house after PT
USHA participated in Olympics. Most loving friends were paternal grant parents on
weekdays and maternal grandparents on holidays.

Dr. V Paulose (Mom’s Dad) was the only doctor in that Village. So, people adored
the super powerful man. Dad’s dad was a hard-core farmer who had lots of bullocks
and cows and hens and big courtyards in both the houses to play around, both
grandmothers were beautiful and graceful, but ministers of the house, my dad, mom
and I always adored, they had a good relations with all their siblings and cousins so
we enjoyed the company of lots of relatives and cousins always. This was my
childhood.

WAS PURSUING LAW ALWAYS YOUR PROFESSIONAL CALLING?

Smart Advocates arguing in the court, were very attractive when seen in movies.
Legal topics discussion always attracted me. My dad was Dy. Director in the
Revenue Department (Survey & Land Record’s) of Kerala, legal topics were subject
matter of discussions at home. I knew that my inclination is more towards Economics
and Law than any other subjects.

When I saw myself as a professional, I always found me as a smart lawyer, helping

people to avoid litigation, advising Companies, than entering into lengthy litigation.

HOW WAS YOUR LAW SCHOOL EXPERIENCE AT MAHATMA GANDHI

UNIVERSITY?

Law College, Ernakulam, under Mahatma Gandhi University, where I studied was a
very famous college due to the senior lots who became Central and State level
Ministers and High Court Judges. It had ahuge Library, where I spent most of my
time there reading Case laws and interpretations of 1800’s.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH REGARD TO

YOUR FIRST FEW SESSIONS IN KERALA HIGH COURT. HAS IT
BECOME MORE DIFFICULT FOR A FRESHER TO ACHIEVE
SUCCESS?

I worked under Adv. PM Thomas, and was entrusted mostly trial court matters in
smaller courts. I used to read and prepare matters before the case presentations or
trial, and if I had doubts, I used to clarify the same with my seniors in the office. I
enjoyed my work,

If a fresher observes the successful seniors attending court and the methodology
they adopt very closely and learn their presentation skills, and if he or she spends
time studying the court matter they handle, I think it is not difficult for him/her to
achieve success. The key element is home work and the ability to control the shivers
passes through the spine seeing senior Advocates in the court room standing
against you. Your knowledge in the subject matter and equanimity helps you to
become a David in front of Goliaths, that’s my experience.

WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO APPLY FOR JAG?

Udan, TV serial which came in Door Darshan in Junior College days attracted me
very much, seeing a village girl becoming Police officer and entering man’s world! I
placed myself in that character and wanted to be in that spectrum in real,

When I was in 4th year law, the first entry into Indian Army by women happened,a pet
project envisioned by Yesteryears Prime Minister Late Indira Gandhi, I was so
thrilled hearing about that, Employment Exchange Newspapers were the only source
those days to get to know about such opportunities, I kept a watch and applied, with
full desire & prayers but no iota of hope, as being competing with the smarter girls
from whole of India, with my minimal village back ground. But God’s Grace I got
selected.

WHAT IS THE APPLICATION PROCEDURE FOR JAG?

Whenever there is opening, Indian Army publishes the requirement on their website,
and the methods of entry is described, one has to follow the application procedures,

The process which was in my case was as follows:

 The first level of selection was at SSB- (Services Selection Board)in May
1995, a written test for aptitude on the first day screening, if passed stay for
another 4 days of test. (Who failed will leave )
 4 days continuous testing –different psychological and physical test at various
levels
 one who passes the test, will stay for the medical test, rest will leave,
 Once pass medical test , will be called for training
 Training at Officers training Academy, Madras for Combat training , which
lasted for 6 months , Passed out from OTA Madras ( March 1996)
 Appointment at JAG’s Branch , Head Quarters ,Northern Command as first
lady officer in that office and undergone court martial training under
supervision of senior officers for six months
 Young Officers specialisation course for Military Law at Institute of Military law
near Nagpur, for 4 months ,
 Re-joined JAG”S NCHQ again, This qualified to be a JAG officer to exercise
duties of an Independent JAG Officer

WHAT ROLE DOES THE JAG OFFICER PLAY IN THE INDIAN ARMY?
DOES THE WORK EVER GET MONOTONOUS?

JAG officer does Court Martial of wrong doers who are subject to Military Laws. Each
case was unique and the Military law is stricter than the civil law, due to the nature of
the exigencies of the service; it can never be monotonous.

Moreover, the tenure in the Army is very challenging and enjoyed the attention I got.
There was a charisma of being one among the first lot of lady officers of Indian Army,
which made the heads turn to see the lady officer in Uniform! This attracted media
attentions many times, manyof whom I met were seeing a lady officer for the first
time! The attentions led to a style and attitude of myown, helped me to maintain
perfect equanimity and a humble personality, though the toughness and charm of
Army Officer was well ingrained.
WHAT WERE THE RESPONSIBILITIES YOU WERE ENTRUSTED
WITHWHILE WORKING AS A DEPUTY ASSISTANT JUDGE
ADVOCATE GENERAL –DAJAG (RANK- CAPTAIN), OFFICER IN
CHARGE ARMY LEGAL CELL IN MUMBAI?

Army Area Legal Cells of Indian Army defend legal cases filed against Indian Army in
that particular Army Area. I took charge of Legal Cell, Mumbai, when it is set up in
1997 as first officer, and the job was to set it up to a full-fledged legal office and
defending the ongoing cases against Indian army M&G Area.I was working closely
with Ministry of Law,, Assistant Solicitor General of India and Central Govt. Panel
Counsels in defending such cases , this included the appearance on behalf of Indian
Army before Commission under Justice B.N. Sri Krishna investigating into Mumbai
Riots 1993 which attracted lot of media attention.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO LITIGATE AT THE MUMBAI HIGH COURT

AFTER WORKING IN THE INDIAN ARMY FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS?
WHAT WERE THE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES YOU WERE
CONSIDERING?
I took release from the Indian Army after 5 years of mandatory services with Indian
Army and started practising in various Courts in Mumbai along with my husband who
was a practising lawyer and already had a set- up his office in Mumbai, I was
focused, didn’t consider any other opportunity.

Among many cases I appeared in the Mumbai High Court in the Army nurses
uniform case filed for the rights of Army nurses made to wear the same uniform as
male army officers, a case against gender discrimination. This attracted lot of media
attention.

I later got empanelled as SEBI panel Lawyer and appeared cases on behalf of SEBI
in Securities Appellate Tribunal (2003-2005).

WHAT WAS THE ROLE OF MENTORS IN YOUR CASE? HOW

IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK A MENTOR IS IN THE FIELD OF
LITIGATION?

Mentor is required for life, not just about litigation alone! I was lucky that God
sendtough task masters as mentors in my life.

First and the most long standing mentor in my life is my Dad! And my Mom his
perfect Assistant who supported me all throughout my crazy adventures and wishes
and gave me the self-confidence. I am still amazed how they trusted me in all my
moves when everything I wanted was unconventional in the small village I belonged
to. A girl becoming a practising lawyer- not so great; joined Army – the wildest crazy
thing, one can think about a girl who is at the age right for an arranged marriage in
my place.

One example of my dad’s support: when I couldn’t take the rigorous Army Combat
Training in OTA, I called my dad asking him to take me out from the OTA by paying
penalty to the government for leaving the training incomplete (those days it was per
day Rs. 4000/- accrued to number of days spend in the academy), some girls were
already left by this method so I had hope, I lured him saying it will be high cost later
on, easy to take me out now as it is less cost, he said I will take you out from the
academy, if you are the last person to go out from the academy by paying lakhs, you
don’t worry about thousands! He said , It was your well thought decision and you
should know how to stand by your decision, you will only have choice to be
successful, I will not accept failures in my house! He reminded me this while fixing
stars on my shoulders on the day of passing out parade.
My Career begin with my senior Advocate Mr. PM Thomas, as my mentor: – he gave
me opportunity to argue important cases in the first year of practise itself even when
the opposing counsels were very senior in the legal profession; when the pressure
used to build up, and if I complain, he used to smile and ask, “so what”! ; it kept me
going and many time successful! This gave a lot of Confidence!

My Mentor to start practise in Mumbai Courts was my husband , under whom I

practised law , a hard task master ,and a very intelligent lawyer, his clients vouch for
it , he never used to spare me in the office , eventually I used to take revenge at
home , still I was never spared !. He taught me practical wisdom and sensitivities
regarding the business of practising law in a big city

These 3 mentors of life made me my own mentor for the rest of the life.

WHAT ARE THE REQUISITE SOFT SKILLS WHICH ARE ESSENTIAL

FOR A YOUNG LAWYER TO BUILD A SUCCESSFUL CAREER?

The Quest for Learning!, Humility, the ability to understand the ‘advice’ and ‘delivery’
the client require from you,A perfect Equanimity! Even while dealing with pressure
while tough arguments, Success will be a bi-product even in adverse situation!
HOW DID YOU DEVELOP INTEREST IN THESE AREAS OF LAW?
PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR CORE AREAS OF PRACTICE.

(During Deepa’s five years of independent practice, she has handled matters on
Domestic and International Securities Law, Military law and also dealt with matters
on Banking and Finance Law and Arbitration.)
This is an evolution happened based on the matters handled during independent
practise with my husband; Interest developed because of the intention to deliver the
best result; Analysed the subject matter and spend time in learning the specific
subjects and put in the best of the effort , so the end results came successful. My
interest in investing in Stock Market and the help of brother practising in Securities
law was a great boost.

The core Area what I am interested among other faculty of Law right now is Capital
Market Laws.
WHAT SHOULD A LAW GRADUATE DO IN HIS FIRST YEAR OF
GRADUATION TO ESTABLISH A CAREER IN SECURITIES AND
CAPITAL MARKETS LAW?

This area is highly corporatized by big law firms, it is better to join one of such law
firms and develop skills and learn Capital Market Laws ; However one need to
understand the dynamics of the functions of the Capital Markets and its
intermediaries to understand the complexities of Capital Market laws . These laws
are very dynamic in amendments and the regulators are amending the laws to
support the functionality of the capital Market in its practical applications and to keep
it in a perfect balance with the Macro economic objectives, so it’s important to
understand the users of this law than Law on a standalone basis.

WHAT IS THE REASON BEHIND PURSUING CERTIFICATE

COURSES? WAS IT A PROFESSIONAL REQUIREMENT TO ENHANCE
MORE IN YOUR CAREER?

(Deepa has taken courses on Stock Market, Mergers & Acquisitions, Technical
Analysis Bombay Stock Exchange Training Institute and also pursued Certification in
Investment Compliance from Securities & Investment Institutes, London, United
Kingdom)
I was a visiting Faculty to ITM- Institute of Financial Markets, Navi Mumbai to teach
MBA students Securities law in the year 2007. In that process I not only taught
students Securities law, but also simplified Securities law to myself, teaching forced
me to read those subjects I generally do not dealt with for the purpose of Career. As
I said earlier, thesecourses I attended were some of my learning efforts of the
subjects I dealt with and it is continuing. Latest is that I am a student of Diploma in
Entrepreneurship Administration and Business Laws by NUJS & iPleaders.
WHAT KIND OF RESPONSIBILITIES WERE YOU ENTRUSTED WITH
AT THE ORGANIZATIONS YOU WORKED? HOW DIFFERENT WAS
THE WORK ENVIRONMENT OF THESE TWO COMPANIES? HOW
WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE IN BRIEF?

(Deepa has worked with two organizations – B& K Securities India Pvt. Ltd. as a
Legal Manager and Monterosa TSS as their Vice President of Legal & Compliance in
Mumbai before moving to Qwinlaw Legal & Compliances.)
Working with B& K Securities was the first experience for working in a Corporate
office, the prime responsibility was to set up their UK Office with regulatory approvals
from FSA, London Successfully set it up and made it up and running and supported
the compliance functions; The other functions was to oversee the compliances of
their international offices in Singapore and US.

The role in MTSS was for Legal Due Diligence support for their clients investing into
Indian Market via Venture Capital, Private Equity and FDI.

Both experiences were enriching and helped me in continuous learning as there is

lot of complex regulatory compliances to follow and lot of business negotiations to
do; which also require hands on legal support.

WHAT DOES YOUR CURRENT WORK PROFILE AT QWINLAW

CONSISTS OF? HOW IS A TYPICAL WORKDAY LIKE?

Qwinlaw is my own Law Firm. This firm specialised in Legal & Compliances function
to Support the clients who invest into Indian Companies and help them to comply
with India laws and ongoing regulatory filings; Support clients to assess and manage
the legal risk andgive solutions to structure the business to litigation free as much as
possible; there is no typical work day for own business, Delivery at the earliest is the
Goal.
HOW HAS YOUR JOURNEY BEEN FROM A FRESHER TO BEING AN
EXPERT CONCENTRATING ON FDIS IN TO INDIA AND SECURITIES
AND CAPITAL MARKET LAWS?

There was no straight line path, I have managed diversified levels in the
legalCareer.However I always had an ability to find where the business is, which
suited me and also trendy in the Market;I have always put an effort to learn the core
subjects which translated into a level of knowledge which can make me confident for
what I deal with;

WHEN YOU HIRE LAWYERS, WHAT KIND OF SKILLS AND PROFILE

DO YOU LOOK FOR? ARE THE ATTRIBUTES DIFFERENT FOR
WORKING LAWYERS AND FRESH GRADUATES?

If I feel the candidate demonstrate an ability to perform and have an attitude to

improve constantly, who can complement and support me in my work, he or she will
be the right candidate.

DO YOU OFFER INTERNSHIPS AT QWINLAW LEGAL?

So far not! It’s a start-up, long way to go.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO YOUNG LAW STUDENTS?

WHETHER THEY SHOULD JOIN A FIRM OR PRACTICE AT BAR? HOW
SHOULD THEY APPROACH THE LEGAL CAREER?
Law student should identify themselves, where do they fit in to excel personally, that
should be the choice! Both Firm and Bar have their own charm!

Career in Law is a process of continuous learning, one should be ready for hard
work and learn the practical applications than focusing only on the theoretical
knowledge. This will help to build up the client trust in you and you will be able to
advice/ deliver results correctly.

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 
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disputes through arbitration


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and challenges of starting new ventures

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FEATURED INSIGHTS

Sajan Poovayya, Senior Advocate,

Supreme Court and Karnataka HC, on
Poovayya&Co., managing a firm,
higher studies, and litigation

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 21, 2015
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Sajan Poovayya is a graduate of the 1996 batch of NLSIU, Bangalore. Thereafter, he
went on to finish his LL.M. from LSE by 2000. Sajan took the plunge and started up
with a law firm Poovayya & Co. right after graduation from NLSIU. After 18 years of
looking after the growth and developing the firm Sajan quit his role of Managing
Partner in 2012 after being appointed as a Senior Advocate. A former Additional
Advocate General for Karnataka he has also served as the Chairman of Karnataka
State Council, and the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry
(FICCI).
In this interview, he talks to us about:

 Experience as a student at NLSIU

 Foreign masters, internships and meetings
 Setting up a firm after college and taking charge of its expansion and
development
 Experience as the Additional Advocate General for Karnataka and Senior
Advocate in the Supreme Court
 Advice to those wanting to set up their own litigation practice

WHAT INFLUENCED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW AS YOUR PROFESSION?

Although my father is a lawyer and his court room advocacy inspired me early in life,
I aspired to become a neurosurgeon, as medicine fascinated and continues to
fascinate me. During my 12th standard (second year Pre-University Course as it was
then known in Karnataka), I had devoted considerable time for preparation to sit the
medical entrance exam. It was in the latter half of my 12th standard that I was brain
washed by my father, not so much to consider law as a profession, but to consider
the National Law School at Bangalore as an institution to study at.
My father was inspired by the wonderful work done by Dr. N.R. Madhava Menon, the
founder director of National Law School and he used every bit of that to convince me
to sit the National Law School of India University (NLSIU) entrance exam. My elder
brother was already a student at NLSIU, having entered the institution inthe school’s
first batch of students. At that time, NLSIU had no campus or infrastructure facilities
whatsoever and operated literally out of a few sheds in the City’s Central College
campus. Despite these odds, Dr.Menon had pulled a rabbit out of the hat by building
an institution which, by the end of the 1980s, had gained considerable popularity.

During my occasional visits to the Law School to meet my brother, I had seen Dr.
Menon in action. His approach was to deal with every situation hands on and
decisively. I was tremendously influenced simply by watching Dr. Menon in action.
Clearly, my father’s brain washing skills and Dr. Menon’s personal aura influenced
me to choose NLSIU over any medical school. I sat the exam and secured
admission. Once in, confusion in my mind remained for some time, but it took me
little less than sixty days during the first trimester to realize that law is the profession
for me. Love for the law, although not instant, was strongand I must say has
remained stable.

PLEASE TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR FATHER’S PRACTICE AND

YOUR INITIAL EXPOSURE TO LAW.

My father has had and continues to have an extremely positive influence on me. He
continues to be a very active trial lawyer at Coorg despite completing 55 years at the
Bar. He is a very soft spoken person but is voracious and vigorous in court. I would,
as a high school student in Coorg, accompany my father to the District Court during
school vacations. Many a time, I accompanied him in what he did; as his driver,
clerk, stenographer, and at times, simply as his chaperon. His court room advocacy
certainly inspired me and many others.

Although a high school student, I would be tasked with transcribing plaints,

completing paraphernalia in dockets to make them ready for filing, etc., which
exposed me to the practice of law in the mofussil courts. Law was not abstract to me
anymore. I realized that I liked what I saw. My early interest in the law was certainly
instilled and inspired by my father’s practice, though I continued to aspire to be a
doctor until I saw Dr. Menon in action, building NLSIU.
HOW WAS LIFE AS A LAW STUDENT AT NLSIU? WHAT WAS THE
UNIVERSITY’S ROLE IN SHAPING YOU INTO THE INDIVIDUAL YOU
ARE TODAY?

For me, life as a student at NLSIU was fantastic in every sense of the term. I owe
every bit of what I am today to the Law School. When I entered NLSIU it may not
have had infrastructure but it certainly had attitude. It had built a culture of academic
excellence, healthy but not intense competition, and above all, a holistic approach to
the study of law. It is the inter-disciplinary approach to legal education that
enamoured me the most. NLSIU did not just induct me into legal studies but also
shaped my character and changed my personality completely. I had the benefit of
having a wonderful group of teachers at NLSIU and each one greatly influenced and
motivated me. I continue to thank them at the end of each day for what they have
done to me.

My peers at NLSIU influenced me even more. They completely changed my

personality from being an introvert to becoming not only an extrovert but a fighter
too. I found everything that I needed at NLSIU; academic excellence, personality
development, strong sense of right and wrong, and above all, true love. I have spent
the last 24 years with Sanjanthi, my best friend and wife, who I would possibly have
never met but for NLSIU.

MANY BELIEVE GRADUATES FROM AN NLU HAVE IT EASIER IN

KICK-STARTING A LEGAL CAREER. HOW TRUTHFUL IS THIS
BELIEF? DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO ONE’S LITIGATION
PRACTICE?
It is a myth that a graduate from a National Law University will find it easier to kick
start a legal career. Another astounding myth is that graduates from NLUs are
always better than graduates from other law colleges. Extraordinary jewels of the
legal profession have emanated and continue to emanate from local law colleges. At
the same time, not all graduates from NLUs make a mark in the profession.

I firmly believe that while institutions can equip you for your journey and provide you
with good shoes, what you achieve is not dependent upon the shoes you wear but
the steps you take. Being a graduate from an NLU certainly helps inasmuch as NLUs
do instil an analytical approach to the study of law and a greater degree of capacity
to undertake legal research. To that extent, I believe, it will make some difference in
one’s litigation practice, but only that far and no further. If one has to excel as a
litigator, one should continue to be determined, to provide his or her best to each
brief that comes his or her way. Each brief is akin to a step for you to achieve a
higher threshold in the legal profession. It is for you to take those steps, firmly and
evenly, lest you trip.

HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU FEEL ARE MOOT COURT

COMPETITIONSFOR A LAW STUDENT WHO WISHES TO PURSUE
LITIGATION?

Whilst academic and research oriented activities are very helpful in instilling in a
student the capacity to work hard and dig deep to find the essence of every legal
matter,moot court competitions sharpen the analytical ability and skill sets of a
student. Students should participate in moot court competitionsasmuch as possible.
As a student, I have enjoyed every moot court competition that I have participated in
and I have emerged a better law analyser therefrom.

Whilst moot courts necessarily do not expose you to the practicality of real life court
room situations, they do provide you with some flavour as to how litigations are
contested or defended. To be a successful lawyer, consistency and hard work are
necessary ingredients. Hard work does not commence post enrolment at the Bar, but
from the very moment you seek admission in a law school.

WHAT KIND OF INTERNSHIPS DID YOU UNDERTAKE AS A LAW

STUDENT? WHICH WAS THE MOST ENRICHING INTERNSHIP
EXPERIENCE FOR YOU?

I was clearly inclined towards a career as a litigator. I therefore chose to do every

internship of mine with litigators. From my second year at NLSIU, I regularly
attended the chambers of my senior and guru in the profession, Mr. S. Vijay
Shankar, Senior Advocate and Former Advocate General for Karnataka. I clerked in
his chambers on a daily basis, post school hours, through my years at NLSIU. It
enormously exposed me to the practice of law in the High Court of Karnataka. The
four years of clerking for Mr. Vijay Shankar had sufficiently equipped me to deal with
many nuances of drafting, filing and registry processes in the High Court. Mr. Vijay
Shankar is one of the most methodical and disciplined lawyers I have known. His
methodical approach indeed equipped me with sufficient skill sets. It was clearly one
of the most enriching experiences for me.

That apart, I interned with litigators in the Supreme Court during my summers
through law school. One of the most enriching internships in Delhi was with Mr. V.R.
Reddy, Senior Advocate and at that time the Additional Solicitor General of India. His
capacity to portray some of the most complex legal propositions in the most simplest
of terms amazed and inspired me.

WHAT CHALLENGES DID YOU HAVE TO OVERCOME IN SETTING UP

A FIRM SOON AFTER GRADUATING FROM LAW SCHOOL?
(Soon after graduating from NLSIU, Sajan established the firm Poovayya & Co. in
Bangalore)
I graduated as a gold medallist from NLSIU and late Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam handed
over the degree tome in the convocation. I was on cloud nine. I had to go through a
year’s compulsory post qualification internship before enrolling at the Bar as per the
prevailing rules(which fortunately have been changed today). No sooner did I
complete my post qualification internship, Poovayya & Co. was established with
enormous support from my senior Mr. Vijay Shankar and my father Mr. M. K.
Poovayya. It was unusual for lawyers to set up independent chambers or law firms
immediately after enrolment at the Bar. When I expressed my desire to do so, my
Senior and my father did not once discourage me, they in fact supported me in this
venture. I plunged into the profession for I knew in the back of my mind that my
father would continue to be a safety net, not so much in terms of finances but in
terms of guidance.

The initial years for Poovayya & Co. were extremely hard but never depressing. It
was hard to gain the confidence of clients and the Bench. Hard work continues even
today and enormous travel across courts in the country makes it harder. But
therecontinue to be happy days and never have I gone home sad at the end of the
day.

I am glad Poovayya & Co. began its journey from Bengaluru and not any other city.
Bengaluru, as a city in the mid-1990s, was going through a metamorphosis with
corporatization being the buzz word that helped the firm garner quite a lot of work
quickly.

The Karnataka High Court is possibly the best High Court in the nation for a young
lawyer to commence a career in litigation. Through my initial years, judges were
extremely encouraging. It is for a young lawyer to make the best of such
encouragement and aim forhigher thresholds of excellence in the profession. It is a
myth that it is hellish for a litigator during the initial years.Hard work is a requirement,
no doubt, with lesser amounts of monies compared to corporate non contentious
lawyers, but the sense of achievement is extremely gratifying.

DO YOU STILL GET REMINDED OF YOUR FIRST CASE AND FIRST

HEARING?

I do recall my first argument in Court. I enrolled at the State Bar Council at 11.30 am
and was out for lunch with Mr. Basavaraj, my immediate senior at the chambers of
Mr. Vijay Shankar. Duringlunch, he encouraged me to argue a matter in the Chief
Justice’s Court post lunch at 2.30 pm. I knew the matter well on account of my
continuous clerkship at the chambers of my Senior.

Mr. Basavaraj sat beside me in Court as a fulcrum of encouragement. The matter

involved a question of incorporation by reference in a legislation. I argued for about
forty five minutes, my first ever as a lawyer. I lost the case but received compliments
fromthe Bench headed by Mr. R.P. Sethi. A few members of the Bar enquired with
Mr. Basavaraj, if I was a Counsel from another High Court, specifically briefed to
argue the matter. Failure in the first case was not only sugar coated for me but also
became a stepping stone to get here and go on further.

IS IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE PRIOR CONNECTIONS WITHIN THE

LEGAL FIELD TO SUCCESSFULLY MANAGE THIS?

Prior connections in the legal field are unnecessary and many a time, can be
detrimental as well. Prior exposure to the legal field is very necessary and this can
be achieved with the help ofinternships and/or clerkships. Prior exposure certainly
better equips you to deal with the vagaries of the profession whilst prior connections
may not necessarily do so.
WHAT MADE YOU CHOOSE LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS AND
POLITICAL SCIENCE (LSE) FOR YOUR MASTERS IN INFORMATION
TECHNOLOGY LAW? HOW HAS YOUR MASTERS FROM THE
PRESTIGIOUS LSE AFFECTED YOUR CAREER IN THE LONG RUN?

I would always recommend a stint at reputed universities abroad, not so much for the
quantum of law that you will learn but for the enormous exposure such stint affords
you. I have been a fan of LSE since the time I read the works of Bernard Shaw and
also for the fact that Dr.Ambedkar, at one point of time, was associated with the
institution. I obtained a Master’s degree and thoroughly enjoyed my time at LSE. The
fact that I received a fat scholarship which took care of not just academic fees but
also expenses for a comfortable living in London was an added incentive. I pursued
the solicitor’s programme in parallel and was admitted to Law Society of LES as a
solicitor of the Supreme Court of England and Wales.

I realized that the thresholds of academic excellence at NLSIU were as high, if not
higher than LSE. Therefore, more than the academic exposure, what I gained most
during my stint at London was exposure to how barristers work in the city. I was
associated with a few barristers and I would regularly attend hearings (as a visitor) at
the Royal Courts of London. Those experiences further reinforced my decision to
remain and continue as a litigator.

AFTER HAVING COMPLETED YOUR MASTERS IN A FOREIGN

UNIVERSITY, WHAT MADE YOU COME BACK TO INDIA, INSTEAD OF
SETTING UP A CAREER IN THE UK?

India offers one of the most vibrant platforms in the world for a litigator. The quantum
and diversity of litigation in India far exceeds anything that UK can offer. I had no
doubts ever in my mind that I wanted to litigate and that too in my home country.
While I did receive job offers from a few London law firms, they made no sense to
me in light of what I always wanted to be, i.e., a litigator. Coming back to India to
litigate was therefore a natural choice for me and I am very glad I did.

HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING AS THE STATE

GOVERNMENT’S LAWYER?WOULD YOU CONSIDER TAKING UP
SUCH WORK IN THE FUTURE?

(Sajan was the Additional Advocate General for Karnataka from November 2012 to
May 2013)
I officiated as an Additional Advocate General for Karnataka for about a year and
was the sole Additional Advocate General for the State of Karnataka for good part of
the tenure. I thoroughly enjoyed my tenure. What made it even more special for me
was that my chamber senior Mr. Vijay Shankar was the Advocate General, officiating
for the second term. Sixteen years prior thereto, in 1996, he had commenced his first
term as the Advocate General for Karnataka during which time I was his chamber
junior and had closely worked under him in many matters of importance. The
opportunity to work with him again and that too as his Additional Advocate General
was indeed a wonderful experience.

I firmly believe that all litigators should, at some point of time in their careers, work
for the State or the Union. The dimensions of work that you experience as a senior
law officer for the State or Union far transcends the exposure that private practice
can offer. Representing the State or Union as a senior law officer in the midst of
multiple bureaucratic constraints makes you not just a better lawyer but a more
mature human being. For a successful private practitioner, occupying such position
also affords the opportunity to contribute to the profession and give a little back to
the society. An efficient lawyer as a law officer can make an enormous difference to
the State and consequently to the society. I will certainly consider taking up such
positions as and when, and if at all, they are offered to me.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO RECENT LAW GRADUATES

WHEN THEY ARE FACED WITH THE CHOICE BETWEEN JOINING
LAW CHAMBERS OF A SENIOR ADVOCATE, OR WORKING WITH AN
UP-AND-COMING NEW LAWYER?

It does not matter whether you join the chambers of aSenior Advocate or work with
an up-and-coming new lawyer. As a young lawyer, fresh off mint, one should join a
chamber which has a wide variety of work. It is extremely important for a litigator to
experience a wide area of contentious practice, rather than restrict oneself to a
particular specialized vertical. The greater the exposure to a variety of legal work,
better will you emerge as a lateral thinker. The key aspects that a lawyer should look
for in a chamber are therefore: (i) variety of work; and (ii) opportunity to handle
litigations completely, however minor they may be.
SHOULD ONE START OUT AT THE TRIAL COURTS BEFORE
PROCEEDING TO THE HIGH COURT IF ONE HAS NO CONNECTIONS
IN THE LEGAL ARENA? OR WOULD YOU RECOMMEND JOINING A
LITIGATION FIRM INSTEAD?

Practice as a trial lawyer is crucial and sets the foundations for a successful practice.
One cannot aspire to become a successful appellate counsel sans any trial
experience, although there may be exceptions. I find many lawyers starting out
directly at High Courts which do not have original jurisdiction or even in the Supreme
Court. Whilst that may work for a few, it is not the most desirable path to tread. It is
not necessary for a few years to be exclusively devoted to trial work. It has been my
experience that a good blend of trial and appellate practice simultaneously helps in
the overall development of a litigator.
For youngsters who are determined to climb the vertical of litigation practice, I would
highly recommend joining a reputed litigation firm which has considerable trial and
appellate work.

HOW WOULD YOU ENCOURAGE STUDENTS TO KEEP THEIR

DETERMINATION TO ENTER LITIGATION ALIVE INSTEAD OF
JOINING CORPORATE FIRMS, OWING TO THE LACK OF FINANCIAL
STABILITY IN THE FORMER?

Gone are the days when it was tough surviving the first few years in the litigation
arena. Young litigators no more receive merely subsistence allowances. Almost all
law chambers offer a fairly adequate remuneration for a young junior counsel. When
I entered the profession, a thousand rupees per month for a junior was considered a
princely sum, as most chambers typically offered less than half of that.

Juxtapose to the present day, where junior litigators are paid sufficiently to maintain
a decent lifestyle if not a luxurious one. Certainly, litigation initially offers far less, in
terms of financial rewards, as compared to corporate law firms. However, the sense
of achievement and satisfaction is unparalleled. What you need therefore is the
determination to survive as a litigator. The growth curve in litigation is so steep that
in a few years, a diligent litigator will not just surpass his peers in corporate law firms
but also achieve far greater thresholds of professional success (and financial
success too).

HOW DO YOU PREPARE FOR A GOOD CASE? WHAT WOULD BE

YOUR TIPS AND ADVICE TO YOUNG LAWYERS?

There are no good or bad cases. There are only good or bad lawyers. When one
begins preparations for a brief, one should never pre-judge the matter. The case is
what it is and it is for you to extract the best out of it and weave sound legal
arguments around it. My candid advice for young lawyers is to prepare every brief as
if there is no tomorrow. ‘Complete Preparation’ is the mantra. It is certainly not
sufficient for you to prepare your arguments on what you believe are the merits of
your case. The mantra for success is in being prepared with as many arguments
against your proposition and in finding counters to each of those, such that you will
ultimately emerge victorious. Young lawyers should also bear in mind that many a
time, litigations are lost on procedural issues despite substantial merits in the matter.
Never ignore procedure. I have found thirty minutes’ preparation for every minute of
submission in Court to be a fairly helpful yardstick. In complex matters, however, the
yardstick can extend to an hour’s preparation for every minute’s submission.

DO YOU HAVE PLANS FOR THE FUTURE EXPANSION OF

POOVAYYA & CO.? ARE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT SKILLS
NECESSARY WHEN IT COMES TO RUNNING A FIRM NATION-WIDE?
Pursuant to my designation as Senior Advocate, I quit the law firm Poovayya & Co.
Whilst there exists debate around the question as to whether a Senior Advocate can
or should continue as partner in a law firm, I have always maintained that once
designated, Senior Advocates should not hold direct interests in or control law firms.
It is extremely difficult for a Senior Advocate to disconnect himself from clients and
client aspirations, if he continues to hold equity or proprietary interests in a law firm.

When I quit Poovayya & Co. and demitted offices as the firm’s managing partner, I
was reasonably certain that the firm has matured to a level that it would continue to
grow without me. The firm’s existing partners have done a splendid job in continuing
its growth in each of its four offices. Poovayya & Co. as a firm has continued to
prosper with significant year-on-year growth, independent of me. Whether to expand
the firm further with newer offices in other cities is for the firm’s existing partners to
decide.

On the question of business development skills, I have a slightly non-traditional view.

Having run a law firm for almost 18 years, I believe that it is your work which should
be your brand ambassador and the best marketing partner you can ever have.
Almost the entirework being undertaken by Poovayya & Co. has come from the
previous and existing clients’ references. I therefore believe that capacity to market
is irrelevant for building a successful law practice.

WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR WHEN YOU HIRE LAWYERS UNDER YOU?
CAN ACADEMIC EXPERIENCE REPLACE WORK EXPERIENCE AND
THE ABILITY TO DELIVER?

What I would see in a young lawyer during the recruitment process is the following:
(i) capacity and inclination to work hard; and (ii) rational & analytical thought process.

Academic excellence, at times, demonstrates the candidate’s capacity to work hard.

It is impossible to compare or choose between academic excellence and work
experience. One does not substitute the other. What you need is a combination of
both.

DO YOU FIND IT EASY TO MAINTAIN A WORK-LIFE BALANCE? HOW

DO YOU UNWIND AFTER A HARD DAY’S WORK?

The concept of work-life balance has been hyped in India and sometimes
discussions around it are unnecessary. The debate on ‘work-life balance’ pre-
supposes that you do not enjoy your work and therefore do not see ‘life’ in it. For a
lawyer who enjoys his work, a lot of his life is woven around his work. If you enjoy
what you do as a lawyer, you may be tired at the end of the day but are never
stressed. My work keeps me packed for a good part of the day and the night. Travels
between the Supreme Court and various High Courts makes it a little worse in terms
of time management. That said, I do find sufficient time to spend with my family and I
cherish every moment of what I get with them. The best form of relaxation is to
spend time with your family and loved ones.

I also collect and restore old automobiles and that passion helps me unwind.
Strumming Carnatic classical tunes on the mandolin is another way for me to
unwind. Music is a great way to de-stress. Lawyers should plan their work in such a
manner that they have sufficient time to do things other than law and spend time with
their loved ones.

WHAT IS THE ONE ADVICE YOU WOULD LIKE TO GIVE OUR

READERS?

Never underestimate the power of ‘here’ and ‘now’. When at work, give all of what
you have to it, in terms of sincerity, labour, time and attention. Always have an eye
for detail. When you are at work, switch on ‘work’ and switch off the ‘world’. When
you are not working switch off ‘law’ and switch on the ‘world’. Doing things other than
law will invariably make you a better lawyer!

To be a superlative litigator, you should be a maverick with a strong moral fibre.

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 
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CLICK TO COMMENT

ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Divyam Agarwal, Senior Associate, J.

Sagar Associates, on higher studies
from LSE, cracking the AOR exam and
experience in Litigation

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 20, 2015
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Divyam Agarwal graduated from Amity Law School in 2007 and went on to do a
Master’s from The London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) in 2008.
Today, he is a Senior Associate at J. Sagar Associates and has extensive
experience in Commercial & Civil Litigation matters as well as commercial
arbitrations.

A qualified Advocate-on-Record of the Supreme Court of India, in this interview

Divyam shares with us:

 The importance of learning the art of advocacy in law school through moot
courts
 His take on how to apply for Master’s at the prestigious LSE
 Experience of working at a Tier-I law firm
 The method of preparing for the difficult AOR Exam

PLEASE SHARE WITH US HOW YOU CHOSE TO STUDY LAW. DO

YOU HAVE LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY?

While growing up, I had no specific inclination towards taking up law as a profession.
With the passage of time and after closely observing my maternal grandfather who
was a reputed taxation lawyer in UP as well as my father who is a chartered
accountant, I realized that a person having knowledge of law thinks rationally and
objectively in not only professional situations but also in day to day affairs of life.
Though I was initially hesitant, after joining my law course, I developed a keen
interest in law subjects, particularly those pertaining to dispute resolution. One thing
led to another and I found my calling.

HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE AT AMITY LAW SCHOOL?

Studying at Amity Law School was a great experience. Apart from the regular course
structure, we were given ample opportunities to participate in several moot court
competitions and other such events. Another advantage of studying at Amity Law
School was the fact that the college was based in Delhi and I got several
opportunities to intern with practicing lawyers and well-known law firms.

COULD YOU TELL US ABOUT THE INTERNSHIPS YOU UNDERTOOK

DURING THIS PERIOD? HOW DO YOU BELIEVE ONE SHOULD
STRUCTURE THEIR INTERNSHIPS DURING LAW SCHOOL TO
PROVIDE THE MAXIMUM EXPOSURE?

My internships were spread out evenly in the corporate sector as well as litigation.
Even though my interest all along had been to pursue dispute resolution, in order to
make a reasoned and well informed decision, I decided to intern in a corporate
setup, so as to assess work involved therein and my inclination towards the same.

It is advisable to evenly spread internships and gain exposure in maximum possible

areas of law. This helps in identifying the right practice area. Another way for
maximizing the benefits of internships is to link the internships with the nature of
subjects which one is being taught concurrently in college.

YOU WERE AN AVID MOOTER IN LAW SCHOOL. PLEASE SHARE

WITH US YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS AND EXPERIENCES IN MOOTING.

All law students must hone their oratory skills by regularly participating in moot court
competitions. I represented my law school in many competitions and was fortunate
to win several accolades. I was part of the team that won the national rounds of
Stetson International Environment Law Moot and we represented India at the World
Rounds held at Florida, USA. At the World Rounds, our team made it to the quarter
finals and I was declared the third best oralist. My love for mooting continued even
during my stint at LSE. I was part of the team that represented LSE at Willem C. Vis
Moot held at Vienna. Mooting not only aided me in overcoming any possible unease
in presenting my thoughts in an effective manner but also improved my inter-
personal skills and confidence.

WHAT WAS YOUR MOTIVATION TO GO ABROAD FOR HIGHER

STUDIES? HOW SHOULD ONE GO ABOUT APPLYING FOR PREMIER
FOREIGN UNIVERSITIES LIKE LSE?

(Divyam pursued a Master’s from the prestigious LSE)

Although it is a common perception that lawyers intending to practice in the dispute
resolution sphere do not necessarily require higher qualification than LLB degrees
and higher qualification is often considered to be a means for personal gratification, I
have always been of the view that to truly understand the ethos and ever evolving
dynamics of any subject, law or any other, it is imperative that one should refine their
knowledge by pursuing higher education in their chosen field.
LSE being one of the premier institutes was a logical choice. I was really impressed
with the quality of the faculty for my area of interest. Also, from my research I noted
that at LSE the emphasis during classes was on discussions and deliberations
regarding practical application of theoretical concepts. This difference in approach
was one of the key factors which made me opt for LSE. On a lighter note, the fact
that I had been awarded the K.R. Narayanan Scholarship for my Master’s course at
LSE made the decision a no brainer!

Applications at LSE are considered strictly on academic merit. It is imperative to

have a good aggregate coupled with mooting and internship experience. Aspirants
should concentrate on preparing a focused Statement of Purpose and also obtain
Letters of Recommendation from legal luminaries and academicians whom they
have been associated with.
HOW DID YOU ZERO IN ON ARBITRATION AS YOUR
SPECIALIZATION FOR YOUR MASTER’S?

Arbitration as an alternate dispute resolution mechanism has always fascinated me.

In my law school days, courts were shaping the arbitration law at an alarming pace.
Substantial advances had been made in foreign jurisdictions especially in the United
Kingdom and the principles of alternate dispute resolution and arbitration were well
established there. As such, when it came to my Master’s degree, understanding the
nuances of international commercial arbitration was a natural choice.

HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE AT LSE? HOW DO YOU THINK IT HAS

HELPED YOU?

As clichéd it may sound, at LSE I had the best experience of my life. The whole spirit
of LSE –taught by brilliant minds, sharing space with exceptional students from
around the world and the overall vibe of the city– was really an enriching experience.

I found my time at LSE to be both inspirational and essential formy future career. It
has given me a broad understanding of the world from a legal perspective which I
have found relevant to everything from work in the office to chats in the pub.

STUDENTS WISHING TO PURSUE MASTER’S SHOULD PREFER A

CHANCE ABROAD OR IN INDIA?

I believe every law student, given the opportunity, must go for Master’s abroad. The
transnational exposure and interaction with lawyers/law students from other
jurisdictions helps one in gaining invaluable experiences. It is definitely worth
pursuing Master’s from abroad. It changes you in the way you think about everything
around you.
HOW DID YOU PROCEED AFTER YOUR MASTER’S?

In my final year of law school I had interned at J. Sagar Associates. During my

internship, I was fortunate to receive a placement offer from the Dispute Resolution
team. After the completion of my Master’s, I approached the firm and was given an
opportunity to work with them. That’s how my journey with JSA began.

HOW HAS THE EXPERIENCE OF WORKING FOR THE DISPUTE

RESOLUTION TEAM OF A TIER I LAW FIRM BEEN?

(Divyam is currently a Senior Associate at J. Sagar Associates)

Working at JSA has been an enriching experience. I have recently completed 7
years with the firm, yet each day I continue to learn something new. Each day
possesses a different challenge and I look forward to the same. Initially, it was
challenging to match the high standards of the organization. However, over the years
I have been able to fit myself in and now I strive towards achieving JSA’s vision and
mission.

IN A PROFESSION KNOWN TO TAKE ITS TOLL ON ONE’S PERSONAL

LIFE, HOW DO YOU MANAGE TO FIND TIME FOR YOURSELF?

Dispute Resolution is one of the most demanding practice areas. My day is a mix of
court appearances, drafting, research work, client meetings and briefing senior
counsels. The key lies in effective time management. One trick I have learnt and
have followed over the years is to monitor my sleep cycle and squeeze some time
either late in night or early morning and finish some chores at home. This allows me
greater flexibility throughout the day and a window for attending to my family life. As
Thomas Edison once said and I quote “Most people overeat 100 percent and
oversleep 100 percent, because they like it. That extra 100 percent makes them
unhealthy and inefficient”.

DO INDIAN LAW FIRMS VALUE AN LL.M. FROM ABROAD? DOES THE

LACK OF AN NLU TAG HURT ONE’S CHANCES?

I feel in India you don’t get enough recognition or weightage for having obtained
higher qualification. However, of late the trend has started to shift towards
recognizing such higher qualifications, which bodes well for future aspirants who
wish to pursue LL.M. from abroad.

In so far as the lack of an NLU tag is concerned, I have not experienced any such
discrimination. Unlike some firms around, JSA has a very open and acceptable
culture towards other law schools. Here it is all about merit. You don’t get any extra
stars for carrying an NLU chip on your shoulder.

WHAT SUGGESTIONS WOULD YOU HAVE FOR ASPIRANTS

LOOKING AT CLEARING THE NOTORIOUSLY DIFFICULT AOR EXAM
OF THE SUPREME COURT OF INDIA?

(Divyam recently cleared the AOR exam and got the 4th rank)
Be aware of the current legal position. There are so many legal initiatives which
regularly notify us with new developments. Questions are often inspired by recent
developments in law. Also it would be helpful to have practical exposure. Take time
out and visit the Registry and Listing Branches of the Supreme Court with your office
clerk and witness how court filings are actually done. This will really help you in
understanding and appreciating the procedural aspect. And of course do not miss
the lectures which are organized by Supreme Court Registry and Supreme Court Bar
Association. They are very helpful.
IT IS BEING DEBATED WHETHER THERE ACTUALLY IS A NEED OF
THE AOR SYSTEM IN THE APEX COURT. WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS
ON THE NECESSITY OF THE AOR SYSTEM IN THE SUPREME
COURT?

AORs play a vital and constructive role in the justice delivery system. The court
system being pyramidal in structure makes the Supreme Court as the Court of last
resort, so it is imperative to have effective representation by an Advocate, who is
trained and well equipped to deal with the niceties and requirements of the Supreme
Court.

WHERE DO YOU SEE YOURSELF A DECADE DOWN THE LINE?

I live by what excites me in life. Presently, I am happy with what I am doing. The
work continues to excite me and thus, I believe I see myself growing with the firm.

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Shwetank Tripathi, Associate, Zeus

Law, on the primary years of a lawyer

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 18, 2015

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Shwetank Tripathi is an alumnus of the RMLNLU, Lucknow of the 2012 graduating
batch. As a fresh law graduate, he started working in Zeus Law Associates and
within a year was made part of the team looking after matters before the Company
Law Board, New Delhi as well as the Indirect Tax Team. His current work profile
includes client-coordination, research on legal issues, drafting, filing, briefing Senior
Counsels and strategy-making.

In this interview he tells us about:

 His first few months as a fresh law graduate

 His experience in arguing matters as an advocate when he was fresh out of
law school
 How experience at an internship is different from working at a firm as a full-
time employee
 The experience and challenges of briefing senior counsels

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR LAW SCHOOL DAYS AT RMLNLU.

HOW DID YOU BALANCE ACADEMICS AND CO-CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES?

My 5 years at RMLNLU have been a huge learning curve for me, both academically
as well as personally. Ours being a relatively new college, with only one batch senior
to us, exposed us to myriad opportunities. Academics and co-curricular activities
couldbe easily balanced by maintaining regularity and paying equal attention to both
the areas.

YOU HAVE PUBLISHED PAPERS IN VARIOUS PRESTIGIOUS

JOURNALS. CAN YOU GIVE US TIPS TO ACE THE ART OF PAPER
WRITING?

I believe that article-writing is a simple yet tricky task. It is very important to keep a
track on the contemporary legal developments. One needs to pick a contemporary
issue of interest, research upon the past legal position, analyse the present
development, foresee a roadmap ahead and compile all those aspects together.

HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK CPI/CGPA IS IN TERMS OF ONE’S

CV VALUE? IS IT AN IMPORTANT FACTOR DURING THE
RECRUITMENT PROCESS?

(Shwetank had a fantastic CPI of 8.89/10)

Well, no one has ever asked me yet as to what my CPI was. But having said that, I
also believe that having a good grade is a safe bet. Most firms take into account
grades as one of the significant factors during the initial screening. However, CPI
alone cannot see you through; it has to be backed by co-curricular activities, and
more importantly, the work experience at your internships.

ALL YOUR INTERNSHIPS HAVE BEEN AT TOP-NOTCH FIRMS.HOW

DID YOU GO ABOUT SECURINGGOOD INTERNSHIPS AND WHAT
ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO YOUNG STUDENTS READING THIS
INTERVIEW WHO WANT INTERNSHIPS IN TOPFIRMS?

(Shwetank has interned at firms like Dua Associates, Amarchand, Karanjawala and
Fox & Mandal)
I have been fortunate enough to be able to secureinternships at known places. I
could get most of the internships through friends and contacts. For securing an
internship, it is important to prepare a well-written résumé, and maintain a constant
follow-up with the concerned HR Department of the firm where the internship is
sought.
HOW IS THE EXPERIENCE AT AN INTERNSHIP DIFFERENT FROM
WORKING AT A FIRM AS A FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE?

Working as an intern and as an employee is a different ball-game altogether, in

terms of the expectations and responsibilities. However, my internships have a big
role to play in the career choice that I made for myself. I could get a first-hand
experience of the challenges lying ahead, which helped me make an informed
choice.

HOW DID YOU SECURE A JOB IN ZEUS LAW FRESH AFTER YOUR
GRADUATION.

I had interned at Zeus for 4 months in my last year of law school. After graduating
when I applied for the job, it was merely an informal meet-up and I began working
immediately after college was over. The recruitment process involves preliminary
screening of your résumé and subsequent personal interview.

HOW TOUGH WERE THE FIRST 6 MONTHS AT YOUR WORKPLACE?

First six months are tough because you know nothing of the profession. But hard
work and attentive attitude makes things simpler in no time.

WHAT ARE YOUR DAY-TO-DAY RESPONSIBILITIES? WHAT IS THE

MOST CHALLENGING ASPECT OF YOUR JOB? HOW HAS THE
EXPERIENCE BEEN SO FAR?

Daily responsibilities include coordination with clients, drafting and attending matters
before various courts. Most challenging aspect of a law firm job is the management
of time. My experience so far has been enthralling.

WHAT IS YOUR WORK PROFILE LIKE RIGHT NOW?

My current work profile entails overall responsibility of matters, including client-

coordination, research on legal issues, drafting, filing, briefing Senior Counsels and
attending various courts.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE CURRICULUM OF LAW SCHOOLS CAN

PREPARE THE STUDENTS FOR REAL PRACTICE?

The law school curriculum and the actual practice are very different. However, it is
very important to have a sound academic base, because once we start working,
there is always a dearth of time to spend on the basics. I believe law school
curriculum should be made more practice-oriented.
HOW HAS YOUR EXPERIENCE BEEN IN ARGUING MATTERS AS A
FRESH-OUT-OF-LAW-SCHOOL ADVOCATE? ARE THERE ANY
MEMORABLE INSTANCES YOU CAN SHARE WITH US?

Well, arguing matters before courts has always been the most thrilling part of mylife
after law school. Although in a law firm practice you don’t get to argue that often, but
I have been fortunate to get many such opportunities. Every instance when you
werefully prepared, presented your case to your best and got a favourable order is a
memorable instance.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS AND CHALLENGES OF BRIEFING SENIOR

COUNSELS? DO YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE ABLE TO ADD VALUE TO
YOUR CLIENTS’ ARGUMENTS?

Having a Senior Counsel on board is a big help for us as we get to learn various
ways in which a case can be strategized to serve the best interest of the client.
Senior Counsels definitely add value to the case prepared by us.

WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU MAKES FOR A STRONG FIRM

CULTURE? WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE LEADS TO THE HIGH
ATTRITION RATES IN LAW FIRMS?

A strong firm culture mandatorily requires cohesion between the team members. I
believe high attrition rates in law firms are mostly attributable to the challenging
nature of the job.

IS WORK-LIFE BALANCE AN ISSUE?

At times, we are compelled to sacrifice on the personal front. But, there are also
good leisure times. It is all about what one wants in life, and managing the personal
and professional commitments with smart planning.

IF YOU COULD RE-LIVE YOUR 5 YEARS IN LAW SCHOOL, IS THERE

ANYTHING YOU WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY?

My 5 years at law school have been pretty satisfying. However, if I am given an

opportunity to re-live those five years, I would aspire to read more.

WHERE DO YOU SEE YOURSELF FIVE YEARS FROM NOW?

I do not believe much in foresightedness. I aspire to keep up the motivation and

continue to work hard.

LASTLY, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE FOR OUR READERS?

My experience being limited to law firms, I would like to share with such aspirants
that it is the easiest of the careers to pursue. Hard work and dedication is obviously
required, but once you are sure you want to do this, everything else would gradually
fall into place.

THIS INTERVIEW WAS TAKEN BY: JYOTSNA ARORA, USLLS, IP

UNIVERSITY
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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Arnab Ghosh, Counsel, Beam Suntory,

on in-house experience, practicing at
Calcutta HC and teaching CLAT
aspirants

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 15, 2015

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Arnab Ghosh graduated from RGNUL, Punjab in the year 2013. An all-rounder, he
has several accolades to his name in the field of mooting, editing, writing and sports.
After working under a Supreme Court judge, Arnab took a detour and started
teaching CLAT aspirants, inspiring them along the way and helping them find out
whether they would be able to embrace the legal profession in the future.

He has donned the hat of not just a teacher, but also a practicing advocate in the
Calcutta High Court, and now, a legal in-house counsel for a company, Beam
Suntory, Inc.

In this interview, Arnab shares his experience about:

 Teaching as a senior faculty member of a CLAT coaching center

 Working under a Supreme Court judge and as practising advocateat the
Calcutta High Court
 Being the in-house counsel for a company

WHAT WAS YOUR MOTIVATION TO STUDY LAW? DO YOU HAVE

ANY LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY?

Law was actually an afterthought for me. I always had an inclination towards the
social sciences and made up my mind about studying liberal arts abroad. However,
coming from a stereotypical Bengali family, it seemed blasphemous to take up any
other subjects apart from PCMB (Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics and Biology) for
12th standard board exams and I seemed destined for a degree in engineering.
A friend told me about CLAT, which I managed to clear. It was only after landing up
in National Law School did I realise that studying law was probably one of the best
decisions I had taken. For this, I have to thank my parents who understood my
aptitude better than the teenager I was at the time. My father is a lawyer himself. He
decided to start practicing rather late in his life but his determination and tenacity to
make up for lost time is remarkable.

My first cousin is also a lawyer who is currently working with the WTO. We may not
be a family with a “legal legacy” but I am hoping that will change in the coming
generations.
HOW DID YOU PREPARE FOR CLAT? DID YOU TAKE ANY
COACHING? HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE TAKING THE EXAM THE
FIRST TIME IT WAS EVER HELD?

I never felt that there was an overwhelming need to take separate coaching for
CLAT. The ISC curriculum and a general academic approach equipped me to tackle
the GK, English and Math sections. I was obsessed with logic and had a thorough
grounding in Logical Reasoning, especially in the realm of mathematics, for which I
have to thank Sanjit, my math and physics tutor (he’ll hate the fact that I called him
that) in classes 11 & 12. This moulded my intellect and approach and I realized that
it helped me with CLAT as well. Given a set structure and pattern, I could draw
logical conclusions. In order to prepare for the Legal Aptitude section, I solved model
question papers and started using the tools of logic and reasoning to answer the
questions. Initially, it wasn’t easy but having crafted the method myself, with time I
became comfortable with the pattern and structure of the various entrance exams
which were specific to the National Law Schools prior to the inception of CLAT.

After the exam, I felt that CLAT was the most refreshing entrance exam that I had
given, especially because it was sandwiched between the IIT-JEE, AIEEE and
others of the same league. The first thing that struck me about CLAT is that first and
foremost, one has to be diligent towards building their general knowledge, there are
no short cuts to it, it can only be built over a period through sustained efforts. It’s
ludicrous to even imagine that it’s possible to mug up all the yearbooks that are
available in the market. The rest of the paper is actually based on aptitude (more
often than not) and while people may improve over a period of time, the logical and
“legal” bent of mind can only be honed and not created.
YOU HAVE INTERNED WITH A FEW OF THE TOP LAW FIRMS IN
INDIA. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT SECURING INTERNSHIPS AT
THESE FIRMS? HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THEM?

Persistence. As a law student, I realized something quickly, my need was greater

than the firms. Law firms, by and large, can do without interns. The onus was upon
me to secure these internships. Initially, I was heavily dependent on the college and
over the years, I made efforts to build a CV which would, at the very least, be looked
at by the firms. However, one of my best internships was when I landed up at the
firm, requested a partner to meet me and then convinced him to give me an
internship. The trick is to be proactive and take out time to not only apply but also
keep following up.

HOW DID YOU GET AN INTERNSHIP WITH A SITTING SUPREME

COURT JUDGE? HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE?

I have to thank the Internship and Placement Committee of RGNUL for securing this
internship. The setup of these internships is such that you get to work from the
Judge’s house itself. Every evening, His Lordship took time out to talk to us and
discuss certain aspects of litigation and court practice. He candidly shared his
experiences for our benefit. As far as being able to list the things I learnt, first and
foremost, it gives you a clear perspective on things from the other side of the Bench.
Secondly, we had to brief His Lordship which entailed reading hundreds of files and
various matters. Thirdly, His Lordship would discuss certain matters with us. As a
student, that is the ultimate practical guide to litigation which no other internship can
provide. You get to know the types of cases that are likely to get a favourable
decision and the ones which don’t and the way judges think. Going forward, if
litigation is the career path one wishes to adopt, an internship with a sitting SC Judge
is invaluable.

ARE THERE ANY EXTRA-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES YOU

PARTICIPATED IN DURING YOUR 5 YEARS AT RGNUL?

I was an avid mooter and debater. In fact, mooting was a very big part of my college
life. It started with the Willem C. Vis Moot, Vienna and ended with our team being
runners up at the Juris Corp Corporate Law Moot, NLIU Bhopal. Even after
graduating, I’ve been associated with the mooting activities in RGNUL, who had
invited me to judge the Stetson Environmental Law Moot last year and the RGNUL
Moot this year.

Apart from these activities, I was an editor of the RGNUL’s monthly newspaper,
“Carpe Diem”. I was also a part of the Internship and Placement Cell and took keen
interest in organizing various events and activities for RGNUL.

Apart from academic co-curricular activities, I was very interested in sporting

activities, taking part in all the events held in college, especially cricket and football
and was part of RGNUL’s football team.
HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE TEACHING LAW SCHOOL
ASPIRANTS? WHAT WERE THE CHALLENGES YOU FACED? WHAT
DO YOU THINK LEGAL ASPIRANTS NEED TO BE AWARE ABOUT
BEFORE THEY BECOME PROFESSIONALS?

(Arnab taught as Senior Faculty at Career Launcher)

In all honesty, I had applied to Career Launcher for a part time position. After the
interviews, they were keen on me joining on a whole time basis and the job profile
attracted me so I agreed to join them. By far, it was the most enriching and exciting
engagement I’ve had. Dealing with students in classes 11 & 12, I took it upon myself
to foster a sense of passion in them for studying law. A lot of people join the
coaching with the incentive and hope to land top paying jobs and not many are well
versed with the other aspects that the study of law has to offer. My focus was to
make them understand that law, unlike other disciplines is not mechanical and can
only be successfully pursued with a certain degree of fervor and passion, in other
words, to get them to study law ‘for the right reasons’ and assuring them that if they
do the basics right, money and its corollaries will follow.

One of the most challenging parts was teaching the aspirants the basics of subjects
like contracts, constitution and criminal law. I had to dig deep and find analogies from
movies like The Dark Knight to get the attention of the students so that they could
understand the nuances and basic principles. This, in turn, revived my love for law
and also helped me sharpen my own understanding.

However, one cause of mild alarm is that more and more students want to pursue
law because it is a lucrative career option. This may be true but not many are ready
for the challenges that come in the way. Not many understand the subjects or have
an aptitude for it. There is a need to sensitize the students and make them aware of
all the realities, especially the difficulties of the legal profession and also to provide
counselling to ascertain their aptitude and find whether they are suited for law.
WHAT FACTORS MADE YOU SWITCH FROM TEACHING TO
PRACTICING AS A LAWYER? HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE?

(Arnab switched to practicing as a Solicitor in the Calcutta High Court after his stint
at Career Launcher)
After working with CL for 6 months, I realized that it wasn’t a long term career option
and that I had more or less learned everything that the position had to offer. I
enjoyed teaching thoroughly but I wanted to start teaching in colleges and
universities. Thanks to a dear friend, RishabRaturi, I was able to work with the
Center of International Trade and Economic Laws at Jindal Global Law School on a
few projects. It made me realise that although a Masters degree is not essential, it is
recommended and I decided that Career Launcher will not provide me the requisite
work experience to pursue the same.

Moreover, I had been advised to start working in my hometown in order to pursue a

successful career in litigation. Coupled with other personal factors, it seemed like the
right move at the time and it was a rewarding experience from which I learned a lot,
not only about law but also about the things I can and can’t do in the profession.
HOW IS YOUR PRESENT EXPERIENCE OF WORKING IN A LEGAL
DEPARTMENT OF A CORPORATE FIRM? WHAT IS YOUR ROLE IN
THE FIRM?

(Arnab is presently working as Legal and Secretarial Consultant at Beam Suntory,

Inc. at their Gurgaon office)
I am working in the legal department at Beam Suntory. 70-80% of my job involves
drafting contracts and agreements, getting licenses and other requirements for
running a liquor business in India and other compliance functions. All our day to day
work is done in-house hence that widens the scope of this job immensely. We have
to interact with various excise and other departments across the country, each being
distinctly different from the other.

The alcohol industry is heavily regulated with strict laws governing business and
promotion activities. Almost all marketing and other promotions have to be approved
by the legal department before being implemented by the company. One of our
recent ventures has been to tie up with VH1 Supersonic through Jim Beam Music
CDs (one of our brands), which is one of the biggest music festivals in India and
which also happens to be a project I’m personally associated with. From the courts
of Calcutta to the beaches of Goa, this indeed has been a fairytale transition.

Hence, my role in Beam Suntory is primarily legal but it has a lot of scope for cross
functional projects. Currently, I have been entrusted with taking a leading role in 3
such projects for the company which amalgamates legal and other functions. While
working in a company, it is your skill set and talents that play a huge role along with
the degree you hold.

WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES YOU FACE AS AN IN-HOUSE

COUNSEL? HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT FROM THOSE YOU FACED
IN COURT DURING YOUR STINT IN CALCUTTA?
One of the generic challenges, that one faces while working as an in-house counsel
is the emphasis on coming up with solutions. It is imperative to understand that the
biggest responsibility is enhancement and maintenance of the business. It is not
enough to say that the law does or does not allow a certain activity. We have to find
ways around in order that the business does not suffer. As an in-house counsel, my
clients are the various departments within the company, such as IT, Operations,
Sales & Marketing, HR, Finance, etc. It is important to understand these
departments in order to render effective service.

The alcohol industry adds its own set of challenges. Every state has its own set of
laws and requirements since alcohol is an entry in the state list. Some states have a
corporation market wherein we do business directly with government entities, some
have a private market where we deal with retailers and some have mixed markets
which means that we have to deal with multiple excise laws and policies. Alcohol is
also regulated by the FSSAI, Legal Metrology, IPR, Companies Act and many other
laws, all of which have to be complied with.

Another challenge, probably the biggest that we face is that we are associated with
an American company. Hence, we have to adhere to strict anti-corruption laws. Any
lapse on our part can lead to irreparable consequences. No matter how pressing or
urgent a matter is, we cannot take any short cuts or obtain favours (monetary or
otherwise) from any private or public entities. We take pride in being a company with
complete transparency. As an in-house counsel, it is my prime responsibility to
ensure the same.

The main difference between working in a Court and working as an in-house counsel
is the sheer variety of laws that you have to deal with. In litigation, there is a certain
degree of familiarity with the laws and procedures and exposure is limited to the
courts. In a company, you have to deal with other companies, entities, business
partners, associate companies (in case of group companies of an MNC), various
government authorities, banks, law firms, lawyers, consultants, etc. We also have to
coordinate and provide support to various departments within the company. There
are more deliverables every day while working as an in-house counsel as compared
to working in a Court.

WHAT ARE THE SKILLS THAT COMPANIES VALUE THE MOST IN

THEIR IN-HOUSE COUNSEL? HOW DOES ONE GO ABOUT THE
APPLICATION PROCESS?

Adaptability, business acumen, consistency, quick interpretation of laws, swift and

effective problem solving skills, teamwork, and willingness to accept roles and duties
beyond your job description, these are the most important qualities that an in-house
counsel needs to have. First and foremost, you have to be very good as a lawyer.
However, you should also possess the skills and willingness to discharge functions
beyond your job description.

A lot of companies advertise vacancies on various internet portals. One has to keep
a track and be updated with that. In addition to that, one should try and intern with
various companies. It helps if the college placement cell coordinates with major
companies for securing placements and internships. The application process is not
very different from any other job. Networking also plays a major role in securing
positions as an in-house counsel.
Taking up additional courses and getting additional qualifications such as being a
Company Secretary is invaluable and I would sincerely advise every student
desirous of working as an in-house counsel to get a CS degree at the very least.

IS THE WORK OF AN IN-HOUSE COUNSEL EASIER THAN THAT IN A

FIRM OR IN LITIGATION? IS WORK-LIFE BALANCE AN ISSUE?

At the risk of sounding like a boring diplomat, I would have to say that both the jobs
have their own challenges and difficulties. The real question one needs to ask is
whether they want to work in firms/litigation or in a company. One of the biggest
peeves I had about litigation is that you had to stay in the Courts till about 4 in the
evening and work only began at about 5. Sometimes, the days would get wasted
without any cases coming up for hearing. Conversely, the work as an in-house
counsel is more organized and structured. Also, the sheer variety of work ensures
that it is not monotonous. Having said that, the thrill of arguing in a Court has its
charm and appeal. As I said at the outset, there is nothing easy or difficult about law
or anything for that matter, one has to put in a lot of effort into whatever they do.

One of the best things about this job is the work-life balance. I get weekends off and
the latest I’ve had to stay back in office was 8 p.m. We put our heads down and work
hard from 9-6 but after that we are free birds. I get to take a swim morning and
evening, party and cook on the weekends and even foster a dog. I don’t think any
other job could have given me this much time and freedom.

WOULD YOU HAVE ANY PARTING WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT

FOR OUR READERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW YOUR
FOOTSTEPS?
Conventional wisdom says that you have to work hard and stick to whatever job or
profession you take up. Hard work is absolutely essential. However, working hard for
something that does not satisfy you is very counterproductive. At times it is essential
to recognize that a certain job or role might not be suitable for you and at that
juncture, one has to be bold and courageous enough to quit and move on. I was very
lucky that I had the support of my family and friends, especially my parents. They
stood by every decision I took.

At times, I was rash and impulsive, but I was always true to myself. It is very
important to be honest with yourself and do justice to your skills, interests and
passions. Also, in the early stages of your career, the importance of a good
senior/boss is incalculable. I have been very lucky to have Vandana Ma’am as my
boss at Beam Suntory. Not only is she an excellent lawyer and boss but a great
human being as well. It is imperative to not only find the right job but also the right
mentor in the early stages of your career.

To summarize, I’d say that it is very important to work hard and work towards a long
term goal. However, it is also equally important to find a job which satisfies you,
which makes you want to improve and give your 120% rather than constantly
harbour thoughts of finding an opportunity to quit and switch jobs. Working with a
lawyer, as a Senior Faculty, as a Solicitor, and now as an in-house counsel, I have
been able to sample the various flavours the legal profession has to offer and in turn
understand my skills and limitations better.

Take as many risks as possible at the initial stages of your career and let your skills
and interests, rather than degrees, specializations and marks, decide what is your
perfect (or at least near perfect) job.

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ENTREPRENEUR & ALTERNATIVE CAREERISTS

Siddhant Mishra on founding Aap
Vakeel Hain and lawsheet.com

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 12, 2015
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Siddhant Mishra is a final year student at School of Law, KIIT University,

Bhubaneswar. During his law school days, he founded the popular Facebook page,
Aap Vakeel Hain and lawsheet.com, a website for law students.

In this interview, Siddhant talks about:

 His journey through law school and the internship experiences.

 Founding Aap Vakeel Hai and lawsheet.com
 Challenges faced in his entrepreneurial journey
Could you share with us for deciding to study law? Did you have lawyers in your
family?
My foray into studying law was unplanned as I do not come from a legal background
and am a first generation lawyer.

You know you are a law student when math’s is..!

I choose Humanities as my study stream for my plus two boards; initially graduation
in Arts was the only formidable option left with me. It was more by chance than by
choice that I got into the Legal Profession.

How did you choose KIIT as the law school to attend?

Not being able to get through CLAT, I prepared for KLSAT and joined KIIT. KIIT helped
in gaining exposure in an array of fields, here we learned through experimentation and
from our own mistakes. On academics, we had a robust curriculum, and the standards
are pretty good which helped in getting introduced to the world of legal practice.
Campus has a cosmopolitan crowd & I made some of the closest friends, learnt new
things (good and bad).

What co-curricular activities have you partaken in your law school years so far?
Being a member of committees and societies helps in building one’s personality and
career; it taught me the skill of networking that is terribly underrated in our system. At
KIIT I was associated with committees conducting in-house and national events which
helped me stay motivated and added a good blend of work with fun.

Can you talk about your internships, and how they helped you?
Internships were a rewarding experience for me. I was fortunate enough to flavor
different kinds of work experiences, having got the opportunity to work with Law firms,
NGO’s, Publishing House & in the chambers of some eminent practitioners; all this
helped me learn researching and drafting. I learnt time management and prioritizing,
which, I believe, hold equal value in our profession. Working as an intern in the
chambers of Shri Mohan Parasaran (Ex- Solicitor General of India) made me realized
that my interest lies to work as a litigant or to start with something of my own & that I
was never interested in working in a corporate structured firm. In my opinion
internships give a wider approach to the law students.
You’re a prolific blogger, and you run a website ‘AapVakeelHain’. Can you tell
us why you started both?
The very idea of starting a rostrum for law students came in the second year of my
college when I realized the dynamic transition i.e an online interface which is about to
change the legal industry; but I was confused as which model will hand in glove and
build a strong community for law students . Facebook was the answer! Being a student
of second year I felt I will sound mindless if discussed this idea with anyone, so I
started the work by my own. I created a page with the name “Aap Vakeel Hain” which
prospected me as spellbinding and start uploading sketch works commonly referred
as “memes” depicting the subtle and overt hilarity of Law School.

“A Law Student who loves to write & marketize”

I started writing and blogging for few websites on my propositions where I get some
good replies, met with few excellent mentors and worked hard in crafting my skills,
later few of my write-ups got projected in the local newspapers &it’s from here when I
decided to transmute the idea of a Facebook page into a Website.

How was ‘AapVakeelHain’ been received by the legal fraternity so far?

Surprisingly it went in an year time, with the sketch works being liked & shared from
hundreds to thousands & website blogs started receiving fair traffic in a year time. Aap
Vakeel Hain is currently running with the highest followers (30k+) in this segment and
has a strong and growing online presence. We have built a good name, strong
networks and hosted series of events in collaboration with Law Schools across the
nation. Journey so far is really good.

What do you hope to be the future of ‘AapVakeelHain’?

“The best way to predict future is to create it” at present I’m tied in creating a team that
will be looking for the upcoming plans. Aap Vakeel Hain will be registered as a
company in the near future and will be enduring many marketing & networking
programs which will help in solving legal education with online solutions on which I’m
active on. I wish the future comes one day at a time.
How has a strong and growing online presence helped you? What are the major
challenges you face?
A strong online presence has developed an advanced networking skills, I have led
multiple projects; developed and implemented new policies and procedures.

Starting a website requires little money which my father pooled in, he was hopeful and
happy to hear my purpose & so were my friends Aqib Alam ( Content
Creator), Nishant , Snehil, & Akshay.

Aap Vakeel Hain was initially run and managed single-handedly which at times
become troublesome in striking a balance with other ongoing work, as you have to
update it daily or else the readers will lose their pursuit and page will weak its reach. I
tried to find few potential administrators but then it didn’t work out and it came on my
head all again.

There came a time when I was not too sure to expand this whole Idea, thankfully I had
few good tie-ups which helped in administering the tasks swiftly.

Aap Vakeel Hain is a self sustaining and profit earning entity now.

What are your plans after post-graduation? Is a masters in the pipeline?

I will go for LL.M which will allow me to further specialize in Criminal Law and thus
prepare me better for my career as a litigant.

SuperLawyer.in serves the best when it comes on sharing the career insights,
(specially the detailed interviews discussing about the LL.M programs & fellowships)
browsing the website directory will be of great help for law students.

Can you tell us about your new venture lawsheet.com?

“Lawsheet.com” A website by law students for law students, is an upcoming project
which runs parallel with Aap Vakeel Hain; designed with a vision to help you through
Law Schools.
This website will be maintained and written by several different law students from
different schools and in different years of their studies.

Aside from offering their tips, advice, and experiences, the bloggers will be able to use
it as a sort of outlet and stress reliever from their hectic law school schedules.

You plan to help law students with greater visibility through lawsheet.com. How
do you plan to achieve it?
 Lawsheet, among many other things, will depict entries about current events,
technology and social networking as it relates to law.
 Lawsheet aims in sharing how to decide if law school is best for you while
offering what must-haves you are going to need and how and what you need
to prepare for important exams.
 Lawsheet will talks about everything – from eating habits, to studying habits, to
writing papers and case briefs!
We are on it, hopeful to launch in the coming months.

What motivated you towards the entrepreneurial initiatives you’ve taken?

Primary motive is the desire to start something of my own. I’m not sure what’s coming
down the curve but it is a thrill. We all have that one idea running in our mind of which
we are sure of, what’s required is to implement it.

While I was scripting for my Interview I took a break and watched TVF Pitchers (an
Indian Comedy Drama Series) in which Naveen (Played as CEO of a upcoming
venture) highlights the difference that exists in the European and the Indian model of
Entrepreneurships, where in Europe they will ask “WHAT is the Model” in India they
will ask “WHYEntrepreneurships”
This difference in the support and attribution systems requires a reformation.

What are the unconventional career alternatives for law students out there?
A degree in Law doesn’t guarantee you a career in Law!

 Entrepreneur- A degree in Law will help in understanding and negotiating

contracts related to the business.
 Politics- Both house of parliament are filled with politicians pioneering a degree
in Law. Few even managed with fake degrees!
  Journalism/Writing- I have a name “Tanuj Kalia” founder of Lawctopus and a
graduate of WBNUJS wrote a book “Law as a career” you may start scripting
yours.
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FEATURED INSIGHTS

Sayali Phatak, Senior Vice President-

Legal, Airtel, on work experience in
Telecommunication Laws and the role
of an In-House counsel

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 10, 2015
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Sayali Phatak graduated in Political Science in 1988 from Lady Shriram College and
thereafter qualified in law in 1991 from Delhi University. She joined JB Dadachanji &
Co. soon after graduation and worked there for the next two years.

In 1999, she joined the litigation team at Amarchand Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff
& Co. (AMSAS as it was then called). Thereafter, she joined as a legal counsel at
Airtel. Having joined and quit Accenture in between, Sayali is currently Senior Vice
President-Legal at the Corporate office of the Bharti Group.

In this interview, she talks about:

 Her work experience at JB Dadachanji and AMSS,

 Her work experience as a Senior Vice-President-Legal at the Bharti Corporate
office,
 The work profile and practice of an in-house lawyer.

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF IN ONE LINE TO OUR

READERS?

I am a Senior Vice President-Legal at the Bharti Corporate office with experience as

an in-house counsel of over 17 years. My main areas of practice include corporate
litigation, transactions, and corporate advisory matters.

I come from a family of lawyers and Law was a natural progression after my Political
Science Honours from Lady Shriram College.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR TIME AS A LAW STUDENT AND YOUR

INTERNSHIP EXPERIENCES IN DELHI UNIVERSITY.

DU was fun and friends. There were many subjects over the period of three years.
Contract law was of particular interest to me.

We did not have any concept of compulsory internships and so I did not intern.
RIGHT AFTER GRADUATION, YOU JOINED JB DADACHANJI AND
CO. WHICH PRACTICE AREAS DID YOU DEAL WITH, IN THE YEARS
THAT YOU WORKED THERE?

I worked at JBD for about two years from 1992 to 1994. I was in the litigation team,
so most of my work included drafting, researching case law and briefing senior
advocates.

WHAT WAS THE EXPERIENCE IN THE FIRM LIKE? WHAT MADE YOU
SHIFT TO AMARCHAND & MANGALDAS & SURESH A SHROFF & CO.
IN 1999?

JBD was a great place and I am still in touch with my friends from then. They had a
lot of good matters and we got very good exposure in drafting and briefing. While I
was with JBD, I received an offer to join AMSAS as it was then. I joined AMSAS in
1999 after taking a break as my daughter was born in 1994. I initially worked part
time there but later joined full-time.
WHAT WAS YOUR WORK EXPERIENCE LIKE IN AMARCHAND?

At AMSAS, I was in the litigation team again. I got an opportunity to work in various
fora, ranging from the Supreme Court, High Court, MRTP, DRT the consumer forum
and the BIFR. It was a great learning ground and we worked with different clients
and got an opportunity to learn drafting, preparing opinions, researching case laws
all over again, and I had the opportunity to brief various senior counsel and
occasionally appear in courts.

AFTER AMARCHAND, YOU JOINED THE LEGAL TEAM OF BHARTI

AIRTEL. WHAT WAS THE REASON BEHIND THIS SHIFT, ESPECIALLY
SINCE YOU WERE WORKING AT A PREMIER LAW FIRM?

Working in a law firm helped me build a great grounding for me, but due to family
reasons I shifted to in-house legal work where I felt it was less pressing.
TELL US ABOUT A DAY IN YOUR LIFE AS A LEGAL COUNSEL. HOW
DIFFERENT WAS THE KIND OF WORK AT AIRTEL FROM
AMARCHAND?

Being an in-house counsel has been very satisfying and challenging. The experience
and learnings from JBD and AMSAS, especially in litigation, were very useful. As an
in-house counsel one needs to understand the business requirement and
accordingly advise the internal teams how to meet their business needs within the
parameters of the law. Earlier in the law firms, I was doing mainly litigation but in-
house changed to a mixed bag, of contracts, some fairly straightforward, some
complicated ones and litigation.

WHAT ATTRACTED YOU TO TELECOMMUNICATION LAW?

Telecom is a very happening space. It has seen exponential growth and is meshed
with technology to reach out to millions for a variety of issues through voice or data
and thus touches all people in some manner or the other. Clearly it is fast paced and
an exciting field, and this is exactly what got me interested to Telecommunications.

WHY DID YOU SHIFT TO ACCENTURE IN 2007? HOW WAS THE

WORK EXPERIENCE DIFFERENT FROM AIRTEL?

I got an opportunity to be the Lead Counsel for the India Domestic business for
Accenture and so I took that up. It was my first experience with an MNC and it was a
good learning to understand how to interact with teams across Asia Pacific, etc. and
understand their processes.

YOU THEREAFTER MOVED BACK TO AIRTEL.

It’s always good to improve one’s skill sets. I got an opportunity to work at the
Corporate Office of Bharti and worked on a lot of M&A transactions, bond issues and
thus took this up.

WHAT IS THE NATURE OF YOUR WORK AT AIRTEL PRESENTLY? IS

IT TRUE THAT WORK IN-HOUSE IS LESS STRESSING THAN AT A
FIRM?

We at the corporate office do not have a lot of litigation which is mainly handled by
the Airtel Team but I have been part of briefing sessions with some eminent senior
counsel in some sensitive matters.

The role of an in-house counsel has changed substantially over the last few years
with many persons from law firms making the transition to in-house at various levels.
As stated above the role of an in-house counsel is extremely challenging as we live
with the business and have to take ownership of all matters, especially in
organizations which are fast paced. Also briefing senior counsel is done for litigation
matters but there is a lot of transactional and advisory work which happens
internally. Further in litigation, a lot of strategizing is done in-house.

DOES WORKING AS A LEGAL COUNSEL GET MONOTONOUS? HOW

IS IT POSSIBLE FOR ONE TO KEEP EXPERIENCING NEW LEARNING
CURVES WHILE WORKING AS A LEGAL COUNSEL?

The role of an in-house counsel is far from monotonous for the reasons stated
above. As regards experiencing new learning curves, as stated above, with a
business which is fast paced and evolving one has no choice but to be ahead of the
times and work with business to ensure that the business goes ahead.
WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE LAW STUDENTS WHO WANT TO JOIN
IN-HOUSE ROLES?

My personal view is that young students must first do a few years of litigation and
garner work experience with law firms. These would be extremely useful and would
serve as an edge over others if one wishes to move in-house.

Work as an in-house counsel requires collaborative and team effort. Each counsel is
measured on how they are able to help the business achieve their objectives and
thus all have to work with all teams in order to close the issue.

Diligence, commercial insight, updated legal knowledge, attention to detail and good
healthy relationships with internal customers is required if one wants to do well.

WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT WORK PROFILE LIKE? HOW DO YOU

BALANCE WORK AND PERSONAL LIFE?

I am currently leading a team of four colleagues and we provide full support to the
Corporate office for all legal issues. Work life balance is something one has to
achieve for oneself and there are spikes when there may be no weekends off, some
with one day and some with both. If one finds one’s work exciting then all can be
managed.

WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS FOR THE FUTURE?

To continue what I am doing and learn new skill sets.

WHAT IS THE ONE ADVICE YOU WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOUNG LAW
STUDENTS?

Law is an extremely versatile area and due to its far reach touching all aspects of
life, it’s a great subject to study whether one wants to practice or teach or pursue
other careers in environment, Human rights etc.

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ACADEMICS, RESEARCHERS & INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATIONS

Kanan Dhru, Founder, RFGI,

LawToons, LawForMe, on being a
Social Entrepreneur and work
experience in Policy Research

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 6, 2015
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Kanan Dhru graduated in B.Com from Gujarat University in 2003, thereafter she
pursued Bachelor of Laws from the prestigious London School of Economics and
graduated by 2006.

With her qualification in law, she started her versatile work life full of enviable
achievements like being a member of a Prime Minister’s advisory body, consultant
for Members of Parliament, and, interestingly, practising advocate at the Gujarat
High Court.

Finally, the social entrepreneur in her motivated her to found the Research
Foundation for Governance in India (RFGI) in 2009. RFGI is a think-tank that is
working on legal and political reforms in India. Kanan is dealing with issues like
backlog of cases, education for lawyers as well as engaging youth in governance
through her work in RFGI.

Recently, she has founded LawForMe (an app that guides people to the answers to
their legal queries with the help of flowcharts) and Lawtoons (a cartoon series on the
basic laws of India). LawForMe has won the Innovating Justice award of the Hague
Institute for the Internationalisation of Laws, 2014.

A successful woman social entrepreneur with a string of achievements at a very

young age, Kanan talks about her thoughts, ideas, experiences and advice to young
social entrepreneurs and law students.

PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE READERS TELLING US A

LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD AND YOUR BACKGROUND.

I come from a traditional Gujarati family. Our family is one of the old families of
Ahmedabad. My grandmother’s grandfather has been instrumental in starting the
Gujarat Law Society. The importance of arts and culture has been instilled in me
since my childhood. My parents made a conscious decision to put me in C N
Vidyalaya, a Gujarati-medium Gandhian school which stressed on simplicity, self-
reliance and authenticity as the way of life. Children are taught to spin the wheel
(and make Khadi cloth by themselves), agriculture, carpentry. In fact, our uniform
was also made of Khadi!
A certain percentage of students came from nearby villages and their parents were
farmers, daily labourers and the like. At the same time, there were students who
came from well-to-do families and I grew up seeing inequalities all around me.

YOU STUDIED LAW AFTER B.COM FROM GUJARAT UNIVERSITY.

WAS STUDYING LAW AN EVENT OF CHANCE OR AN EFFECT OF A
DELIBERATE PLAN? WHAT INCLINED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW?

I always wanted to be a lawyer. Since I grew up questioning our unequal society, I

wondered where did the answers lie and where does the buck stop? I saw that all
our leaders were lawyers and that by getting the education in justice delivery, I can
help create a fairer society.

YOU HAVE COMPLETED YOUR BACHELOR OF LAWS FROM THE

PRESTIGIOUS LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS. HOW DIFFERENT
IS THE STYLE OF TEACHING AT LSE? DO THEY FOCUS MORE ON
THE PRACTICAL ASPECTS OF LAW AS COMPARED TO THE NLUS?

My exposure to the education system at NLUs has come from my younger sister,
who studied at one of them. At LSE, the teaching methodology is highly analytical.
Emphasis is put on the nature and need of law in the society and the ingredients of
rule of law. The black letter law becomes the focus only after graduation – just before
the graduate decides to take up the path of becoming a solicitor or a barrister.
WHY DID YOU CHOOSE A FOREIGN UNIVERSITY TO PURSUE LAW
INSTEAD OF AN INDIAN LAW SCHOOL?

While I was very clear about pursuing law, my parents wanted me to study law from
a good university. I did apply for NLUs after my 12th standard, but at that time, the
application system was different. Every university had a different application system.
I only applied to NLSIU and NALSAR and frankly, did not make it to either.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR TIME AT LSE. HOW WAS THE ACADEMIC

PRESSURE? TELL US ABOUT CAMPUS LIFE AT LSE. HOW
DIFFICULT WAS IT FOR YOU TO ADJUST TO A U.K. BASED
EDUCATION SYSTEM?

My time at LSE was fabulous – my horizons were expanded manifolds. Of course,

the delivery of lectures and communication during the classes was very different and
I had to adjust to the change in the teaching methodology.

Along with studies, I slowly started involving myself in the extra-curricular activities
on campus. I became the editor of the law society’s legal journal, started SPICE
(Society for the Promotion of Indian Culture and Ethos) and also founded India Week
– one of the prominent celebrations on the LSE campus – where we hosted
Professor Amartya Sen and involved the Indian Embassy in the founding year. I was
awarded the ‘Honorary Studentship’ by the LSE Student Union – which is awarded to
20 students in the graduating batch every year.

WHAT KIND OF INTERNSHIPS DID YOU DO WHILE YOU WERE AN

LSE STUDENT? ARE THERE ANY REMARKABLE EXPERIENCES
DURING YOUR INTERNSHIPS THAT SHAPED YOUR CAREER
CHOICES LATER?
In the first year, I interned at Nishith Desai Associates in India and in the second
year, I interned with the World Health Organisation (WHO) in Geneva.

Honestly, the WHO experience was quite significant since I was able to meet and
interact with a very different set of people, mainly health professionals, and I was
able to have very in-depth conversations with them. There were many people from
the USA, whom I found really open and friendly.

At WHO, I was able to see how an international organisation functions and how it is
able to create dialogue across stakeholders. I also saw how different countries could
get themselves represented at the international platforms. This fascinated me and
made me start thinking about policy work in India.

HOW DID YOU SECURE YOUR APPOINTMENT AT THE NKC? WHAT

WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR WORK AT THE NKC?

(After graduating from LSE, Kanan came back to India and worked at the National
Knowledge Commission for a year. The NKC is one of the Prime Minister’s Advisory
body.)
After coming back to India, I was still looking at different options. My father
encouraged me to apply for the National Knowledge Commission. However, I
wondered how could I secure a place at such a prestigious institution? I wrote an
email directly to Sam Pitroda (then head of the NKC) with my CV and to my surprise,
he replied positively the very next day!

Working at the NKC was an extremely enriching experience. I was able to travel
across the country and work with a team of highly accomplished individuals driven
towards the development of the nation. I worked on issues such as library
development, entrepreneurship and traditional knowledge. It was at the NKC that I
realised that in order to create a sustainable impact through any policy, law played a
crucial role. I decided to start practicing law then.
YOU LEFT NKC AND STARTED YOUR INDEPENDENT PRACTICE AS
AN ADVOCATE AT THE GUJARAT HIGH COURT. DO YOU THINK
THAT WAS THE PERFECT TIME FOR YOU TO GO INDEPENDENT?

Practicing law fascinated me. I believed that by gaining exposure to litigation, I would
be able to see how law was actually implemented in the society. This became
clearer after my NKC stint.

I did not strategise the timing. It just felt like the right thing to do!

HOW DID YOU OVERCOME YOUR INITIAL JITTERS IN A

COURTROOM FULL OF EXPERIENCED LAWYERS AND JUDGES?
TELL US ABOUT THE HIGHS AND THE LOWS.

The atmosphere in the court is indeed quite overwhelming and intimidating for any
youngster. However, people around me constantly kept on asking me why I joined
litigation after a law degree from LSE! There were also those who asked me whether
I was actually serious about litigation or whether I was there to find a suitable partner
for marriage.

As a junior, I was lifting files and running around the courtrooms, keeping time for my
senior lawyers lest their case comes up. I was quite disappointed at the fact tht this
was how I had to start gaining the exposure.

I was even more disappointed to see that ‘justice’ was so slow to attain – the entire
machinery to deliver justice seemed quite inefficient and I saw how so many people
had to wait for years to obtain justice. It was a question of their lives and they were
going from pillar to post, and still they did not know what their rights were!
There were so many different kinds of lawyers! I met lawyers who were part-time
tailors or rickshaw-drivers and then there were those who owned a Mercedes or a
BMW and had really fancy offices. Were their clients equally represented?

I kept wondering why things were not moving faster. Did we really need all these
difficult jargons and procedures for fairness to prevail?

My experience in the court made me realise that something drastic had to be done to
change the way the legal machinery operated and that’s how RFGI was born.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH YOUR FIRST

FEW SESSIONS IN COURT. HAS IT BECOME MORE DIFFICULT FOR A
FRESHER TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS NOWADAYS?

How and when you get a chance to appear in the court depends on a lot of things. It
depends on who is your senior lawyer – is he/she your relative? – if that’s the case
or if you have good relations with your senior, then your chances to appear would be
higher. Else, you might have to push the files for quite a while before you are actually
entrusted with a matter. Usually the judges are quite encouraging to youngsters.

The first case I got to argue was a case of the year 1982 where a bus conductor had
sued the state bus company, because of whose negligence he had to get his leg
amputated. The amount claimed was around Rs. 14,000 plus interest. I put forward
my argument and got the judgment in the favour of the bus conductor, but when I
tried to inform him about the outcome, I realised that he had passed away a few
years ago.

All these factors led me to start taking my work at RFGI seriously.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR “MANAGEMENT MATTERS PROJECT’’.
WHAT WAS YOUR ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITIES IN THIS PROJECT?

(Kanan undertook this Project at London School of Economics, McKinsey & Co.
[New Delhi] and also at Stanford University)
When I was at LSE, I got through a project between LSE and McKinsey & Co. to
assess the management practices of manufacturing companies across different
countries. It was a fascinating project and I learnt a lot about management and what
factors contributed to better management practices across geographies. I also saw
how the national regulatory and physical infrastructure had an important part to play.

When McKinsey wanted to roll out this project in India, I got involved and spent time
in their Gurgaon office to help set up the initial team. Similarly, even at Stanford, I
was invited to help train the first batch of analysts.

TELL US ABOUT THE STORY BEHIND RFGI. WHAT CHALLENGES

DID YOU FACE TO ESTABLISH AN INSTITUTION LIKE RFGI? WHAT
DOES RFGI DO AND WHAT IS YOUR JOB PROFILE IN THE THINK-
TANK?

(Kanan went on to establish and head a think-tank called “Research Foundation for
Governance In India’’. RFGI today consists of 3000 members, working on legal and
political reforms in India.)
As I mentioned before, it was my experience at the High Court that led me to create
a platform to raise a voice about needing a change within the legal systems, which
took form in the shape of RFGI.

However, initially the idea was to bring together youngsters who wanted to create a
change within the governance systems in India and the mandate was quite open
ended. Youngsters from different backgrounds started getting involved on a variety
of issues. We started organising public debates and conducting research studies on
issues such as entry barriers to litigation (which was to understand what are the
barriers junior lawyers face to establish themselves in litigation), understanding the
status and need for inner party democracy in political parties, analysing the status of
legal education among others. We started collaborating on projects with
Accountability Initiative (at Centre for Policy Research), with some of the professors
at IIM-A, Government agencies and also started to work with a large number of
young political party representatives across party lines. Along with this, we started
hosting interns from different parts of the world.

RFGI became a hub of different thought processes and discussions on governance

in the city of Ahmedabad and we started gaining accolades from various corners. We
started going to different schools and interacting with children on laws and rights.

Our work profile was to work on research, awareness and consultancy on legal and
political reforms related areas in India and to involve youngsters in the process of
governance. The entire organisation was working in the spirit of volunteerism.
BESIDES WORKING ON RFGI, YOU HAVE CONTRIBUTED YOUR
KNOWLEDGE SET AS A CONSULTANT FOR MEMBERS OF
PARLIAMENT OF INDIA. PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR TIME AS
THEIR CONSULTANT.

Our work at RFGI and our profile as lawyers wanting a change in the society got us
to work with a Member of Parliament on drafting of a legislation. In fact, after my
work at the NKC, I was involved with the Education Department of Gujarat in drafting
of several bills and ordinances. Our work with the Member of Parliament was to draft
a couple of private members bills. It was fascinating work and the impact that we
could create with drafting of laws was far reaching.

WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO TAKE AN OFFER OF TEACHING IN SPITE

OF WORKING FULL TIME FOR RFGI? WHAT WAS YOUR TEACHING
METHODOLOGY THERE?

(Kanan taught Ethics in Business and Business Law as a Visiting Faculty to final
year Business students in Ahmedabad University.)
When I was approached specifically to teach ‘Ethics’, I was intrigued. The subject
sounded fascinating and I thought it might be a great chance to learn something.
Teaching Ethics really changed me. As a teacher, I have always believed in
encouraging class participation instead of preaching. The boundaries of ‘right’ and
‘wrong’ that Ethics forces us to delve upon makes you start questioning many of your
pre-conceived notions. I challenged the thought premises of my students and tried
making them better in tune with themselves.

IN BETWEEN, YOU HAVE ALSO PURSUED MASTERS IN PUBLIC

ADMINISTRATION FROM IGNOU. WHAT WAS THE REASON BEHIND
PURSUING THIS COURSE? TELL US ABOUT THE COURSE
STRUCTURE AND THE UTILITY OF THIS COURSE.

Since I was working in the field of governance, I wanted to have knowledge of the
theoretical aspects of policy making and administration. Masters in Public
Administration felt like the most relevant degree for me.

Honestly, I was dabbling between an MBA (to understand how to grow a social
enterprise) and an MPA. I also got the Fulbright Fellowship to pursue an MBA in
USA but could not take up that offer due to unfavourable circumstances.

OUR READERS WOULD BE KEEN TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR

RECENTLY STARTED WEBSITES “LAWFORME’’ AND ‘’LAWTOONS’’.
WHAT LED TO THE FOUNDATION OF THESE TWO WEBSITES?
WHAT ADVANTAGE CAN LAW STUDENTS GET FROM THESE TWO
WEBSITES?

I can’t express it in fewer words. I would request the readers to read:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/579275265508546/ and here’s a brief about
Lawtoons: http://www.hindustantimes.com/art/lawtoons-a-comic-series-to-teach-
children-their-rights/article1-1281611.aspx
HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE WELL RECOGNISED AT SUCH AN EARLY
STAGE IN CAREER? AND HOW HAS YOUR JOURNEY AS A SOCIAL
ENTREPRENEUR AND LEGAL INNOVATOR BEEN SO FAR?

(Apart from being an Acumen India Fellow, Kanan has won the Innovating Justice
Award, (2014) and was also selected as an ‘Indian of Tomorrow’ by India Today
(2012))
Acumen’s India Fellows Program is addressing the country’s most pressing social
issues by supporting a new generation of Indian leaders willing to challenge broken
systems and develop new, inclusive solutions to create impact. Each year, the India
Fellows Program brings together up to 20 emerging leaders from different regions,
sectors, and socio-economic backgrounds in India. I am honoured to be selected as
one of the 20 fellows this year.

My journey as a social entrepreneur and legal innovator has been quite fascinating
and often introspective. As they say, when you are on a journey to create a better
society, it may also be a pathway towards your internal journey and vice versa.
STARTING RFGI AND WINNING THE INNOVATING JUSTICE PRIZE
ARE SOME OF THE MILESTONES IN YOUR CAREER. TELL US
ABOUT YOUR SUCCESS MANTRA.

Perhaps what has worked for me is that I focus on what work is to be done and not
what I will get out of it. ‘Focusing on work as an end in itself’ is my mantra.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR TWO BOOKS AND HOW DO YOU

GET TIME TO PEN FOR THE DAILY NEWSPAPERS AND BLOGS?

(Kanan is a regular blogger and columnist for The Huffington Post, Femina Gujarat,
Daily News & Analysis and were a former columnist with Times of India (Gujarat).
Kanan has also authored two books ‘Kanan Chan in Japan – Diary of an exchange
student’ (2003) and authored a book of poems ‘Amara Manma’.)
Since childhood, I have always loved reading and writing. Writing is a very
introspective process and it makes me really happy when I write. It is easy to find
time for something that you love! Plus, Ahmedabad being a less happening city, it
leaves one with a lot of time to pursue their hobbies and interests!
HOW DO YOU THINK KNOWING LAW BENEFITS AN
ENTREPRENEUR? WHAT ARE THE PRIME HURDLES THAT A NON-
LAWYER ENTREPRENEUR IS LIKELY TO COME ACROSS?

Being an entrepreneur is all about the will and the aptitude. Being a lawyer or a non-
lawyer has little role to play. Of course, a lawyer is more attuned to understanding
the regulatory process or has in-built analytical thinking. After that, it is the business
acumen and the communication skills that create wonders. Introspection is also an
important trait for any self-starter.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT RAISING CAPITAL FOR RFGI?

HAVE YOU APPROACHED ANY FOUNDATIONS?

We believe that our work has potential to make significant impact. While money isn’t
really a great motivator, we believe that through social entrepreneurial ideas such as
Lawtoons and LawForMe, we will be able to sustain our work.
WHEN YOU HIRE PEOPLE UNDER YOU, WHAT KIND OF SKILLS AND
PROFILE DO YOU LOOK FOR? HOW CAN LAW STUDENTS OR
MARKETING STUDENTS GO ABOUT DEVELOPING THESE SKILLS?

At RFGI, we usually invite anyone who has his/her heart in the right place. It is a
platform to do good work and everyone is welcome! However, over time we have
realised that most interns join because they want a certificate, which is such a
shame. Now we have become far stricter in looking for the right fit.

For legal interns, we look for interns who know the law and who respect deadlines.
What is fundamentally important is that the person should have a belief about
bringing a change in the legal system and creating innovations in law – to have
his/her heart in the right place. Rest all can be taken care of.

WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BE A SOCIAL ENTREPRENEUR AND LEGAL

INNOVATOR? WHAT ARE THE THREE GREAT SKILLS OF AN
ENTREPRENEUR ACCORDING TO YOU? WHAT DIFFERENTIATES
THE BEST FROM THE REST?

Honestly, I have always followed my heart and did what I thought was the right thing
to do. It has not always been easy – but it has been worth it. Three great skills of an
entrepreneur according to me are:

 Knowing one’s self well (knowing what you stand for, your likes and dislikes
and the non-negotiables as well as your limitations)
 Knowing that you can be wrong too (humility)
 Knowing that your dreams will come true

HOW HAS THE JOURNEY BEEN FOR YOU AS A WOMAN

ENTREPRENEUR?
Somebody once told me that the value of RFGI is also because it represents the
voice of a young female on governance and legal system. I consider this an honour. I
think my journey has been exciting and full of interesting ups and downs. Being a
woman entrepreneur has been both positive and negative.

At times, I wonder what my journey would have been if I were a guy? Perhaps I
would have been taken more seriously in our society, perhaps I would not have so
many social pressures to fit into a specific box, perhaps I would have been a lot
more aggressive in my work, perhaps my life would have been easier.

But then, I feel that it is because I am a woman, I need to do what I do – even with
more enthusiasm and self-belief.

YOUR MAIN OBJECT IS TO WORK TOWARDS LEGAL REFORMS IN

INDIA THROUGH RESEARCH FOUNDATION FOR GOVERNANCE IN
INDIA, LAWTOONS AND LAWFORME. WHERE DO YOU WANT TO
SEE YOURSELF FIVE YEARS DOWN THE LINE?

5 years down the line, I see Lawtoons and LawForMe as flourishing entities, making
laws and legal processes simple and easily understood. RFGI would of course be
the umbrella organisation facilitating dialogue and discussion on access to justice.

I also aim to see many more legal start-ups in India and a thriving ecosystem
providing access to justice in India.

I don’t know much about myself but about the legal system in India, I have so many
dreams! I want to see a legal culture in India where justice is a primary value,
respected and enforced fairly and efficiently. I want to see a culture of legal aid
actively provided to those in need and where efforts are being made to make people
aware about laws and rights. I visualise the legal climate where with the help of
technology, access to justice has become easy, process faster and transparency is
taken for granted. I don’t know if 5 years is too short a time for this dream to
materialise but my efforts will continue in this direction for sure.

IS THERE SCOPE FOR LEGAL INTERNSHIPS IN RFGI? IF SO, WHAT

IS THE PROCESS OF APPLICATION?

We are highly selective about the interns we take. Please

email info@rfgindia.org for internship opportunities.

TELL US A BIT ABOUT MOUNTAINEERING. DID YOU TAKE ANY

HARD-CORE TRAINING BEFORE CLIMBING? WHY HAVE YOU
CHOSEN THIS HOBBY WHICH NEEDS MAXIMUM TENACITY AND
MENTAL STRENGTH?

(Kanan has scaled Mount Kilimanjaro in 2012 and has travelled over 30 different
countries.)
While I am very passionate about my work, I am also thoroughly interested in
traveling, sports (yes, I love playing tennis!) reading, knowing about different cultures
and outdoor adventures. Being with nature is so important! Work is important but it is
equally important, if not more, to grow as a person. The extra-curricular activities do
make you a stronger and more composed person. Over time, I have also grown very
curious about understanding human nature and I keep reading about it every now
and then.

I have travelled over 30 countries and have gathered so many interesting

experiences. In fact, on my Japan trip alone, I have written a book called ‘Kanan
Chan in Japan’! Perhaps Super Lawyer should do another interview with me to
capture those insights! J
WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE FOR LAW STUDENTS WHO ASPIRE TO BE
SOCIAL ENTREPRENEURS ONE DAY?

“Follow your heart and take risks. You only live once.”

Share the knowledge!

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HIGHER STUDIES

Himanshu Sharma, MBA Candidate, IIM

Ahmedabad, on all about studying
MBA from IIMA

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on September 2, 2015
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Himanshu Sharma is a recent graduate from Gujarat National Law University, GNLU
(2015). In his final year, he cracked Common Admission Test (CAT) to secure his
admission in IIM-Ahmedabad. During his time in Law school, he interned at FICCI in
their Intellectual Property Facilitation Centre, New Delhi and was a judicial clerk
working under Justice Kurian Joseph.

In this interview he talks about:

 His Law school experience;

 His work at FICCI and with Justice Kurian Joseph; and
 All about cracking CAT and getting through IIM Ahmedabad
 Faculty, facilities and the atmosphere at IIM-A.

HIMANSHU, TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOURSELF.

I am currently a student of PGP-1 (MBA in colloquial terms) at Indian Institute of

Management, Ahmedabad. I completed my graduation from Gujarat National Law
University, Gandhinagar in 2015 and joined IIM-A after a barely month long break. I
am a native of Dharamshala (H.P.) and love spending my time reading and gaming.
TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD AND PRE-COLLEGE LIFE.
DID YOU HAVE LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY?

I grew up and attended school in the hill towns of Shimla and Dharamshala. My pre-
college life was very calm and laid-back with not much academic pressure as such. I
used to spend much time playing video games. Interestingly, I am the first lawyer in
my family. My extended family comprises solely of doctors and teachers.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO STUDY LAW? WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO

DO SO?

Law as a career was not my first choice. I was a science (non-medical) student in
Class XII and was keen on pursuing engineering post school. However, during my
last year in school, I realized that Law as a career also interested me. So I prepared
for CLAT as well. The CLAT rank turned out to be really good and my parents
convinced me that for a person like me, Law would be a much better option than
engineering as they believed my skills were more suited towards it. Looking back, I
somehow feel that taking up Law was one of the best decisions of my life, as it
exposed me to a much broader learning experience than what would have been
possible pursuing engineering.

HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE AT GNLU, GANDHINAGAR? HOW DID

YOU GO ABOUT YOUR ACADEMICS AS WELL AS EXTRA-
CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES? WERE YOU INTO MOOTING?

The five years at GNLU have been nothing short of fantastic. I met amazing people
here, learnt from some of the best teachers and did almost everything possible under
the sun that I felt like doing. Academics at GNLU was not much of a burden as the
course was evenly spread out over the different semesters. Any difficulties that I
faced were resolved with the help of teachers or friends and seniors. GNLU students
are also lucky to have a very active extra-curricular life. Almost every fortnight there
used to be some activity or the other, ranging from simple music nights to week long
sports leagues. I took part in as many as I felt comfortable with. I was not much into
mooting as getting into mooting is a serious affair and time and energy needs to be
dedicated. I represented the University in only two national moots, once in my first
year and the next time in my third year.

HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE SERVING VARIOUS STUDENT

COMMITTEES AT GNLU?

The only committee I served in GNLU was the sports committee, which was a very
good experience as it led to bonding with many people I would not have known
otherwise. Working for the sports community at GNLU was also a pleasure. Also,
from the experience of seeing my friends work with various committees, I cannot
stress enough the hard work put in by such committees for the benefit of students.
Whether it is the SAC or the MCC or the LSC, they keep on working throughout the
year for the betterment of the student community at GNLU.

GIVE SOME INSIGHTS OF YOUR INTERNSHIP EXPERIENCE AT FICCI

IN THEIR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY FACILITATION CENTRE, NEW
DELHI.

I interned at the IP Facilitation centre of FICCI, New Delhi as IPR has always been
my favourite area of Law since a long time. The work there mostly comprised of
research on various ongoing events in the IP sector. A substantial work assigned to
me was the preparation of a course booklet on IPR for high school students, to
introduce them to the basics of IP Law and their importance. The work turned out to
be quite challenging as the booklet had to be designed keeping in mind the limited
exposure to Law for the students. Overall, the internship was a fun and learning
experience. The interns also got the opportunity to meet luminaries in the field of IP
Law at times.

YOU DID A JUDICIAL CLERKSHIP AT HIMACHAL PRADESH HIGH

COURT UNDER HON’BLE CHIEF JUSTICE KURIAN JOSEPH. WHAT IS
THE PROCESS OF APPLICATION? WHAT DO YOU THINK
CONTRIBUTED TO YOUR SELECTION?

Interning under Hon’ble Justice Kurian Joseph was a wonderful experience. One of
my batchmates and I both applied through the Registrar of the High Court and both
got selected for the internship. However, the final decision was taken by the Hon’ble
Chief Justice himself after having a short conversation with both of us. It would be
really difficult to quantify the criteria of selection but I think all that mattered were that
we were confident and open to learning.

WHAT KIND OF ASSIGNMENTS DID YOU GET AND WHAT WAS YOUR
NATURE OF WORK AS AN INTERN?

The assignments were almost always about some small technicality that had arisen
in some matter being adjudicated by the Justice Joseph. Rather than the work
though, it was the few small discussions we had with Justice Joseph in his free time
that provided us with a much better understanding of various aspects of
Constitutional and Administrative Law. The whole experience also contributed much
towards my learning of our judicial system.
YOU ARE ALSO INTERESTED IN SPORTS AND WERE A MEMBER OF
THE UNIVERSITY SPORTS COMMITTEE AND UNIVERSITY
BASKETBALL TEAM. TELL US A BIT ABOUT IT.

Being involved in every co-curricular or extra-curricular activity is not of much use if

the same is done just for the sake of it and is not enjoyed. I think students would be
at no loss if they focus on say one or two such activities only, if they enjoy what they
are doing. From the perspective of enhancing the profile though, especially from the
perspective of attending a B-school later, taking part in as many co-curricular or
extra-curricular activities as you can is beneficial in the long run, as thy help
distinguish you from other candidates during admissions.

WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO CHOOSE MBA AFTER GRADUATION AND

WHY NOT AN LL.M OR A LAW FIRM JOB?

I had not even thought much about post-graduation till my 3rd year. But as the
3rd year was almost ending, I realized that I really did not have much enthusiasm in
me towards a corporate Law firm job. I found corporate Law to be very procedural
and mundane. Pursuing IP Law was another option for me, but I felt that it would
restrict me to a very niche field. So I gradually drifted towards going for post-
graduation. I did not rule out an LL.M. right away, but somehow chose to go for an
MBA over it as it seemed to offer better benefits in the form of diverse learning as
well as a different career path. A very close friend also played an instrumental role in
motivating me for pursuing an MBA.
WHEN DID YOU EXACTLY START PREPARING FOR THE CAT? WHEN
SHOULD A PERSON IDEALLY START PREPARATION FOR THE CAT
AND OTHER MANAGEMENT EXAMS?

I started preparing for CAT and other entrance exams when I started my 4 th year at
GNLU. So essentially, I prepared for almost one and a half year. However, I would
not say that this is the ideal time limit for anyone who wants to prepare for the same.
I have seen people cracking CAT after preparing for just four to six months, while
some have taken close to 3-4 years to get into a B-school of their choice. It all
depends on the kind of effort a person is willing to put in. I took more time because I
was not very comfortable with the Quantitative section. Also during the first year of
preparation, I prepared at a leisurely pace, putting in approximately 8-10 hours of
work in a week.

DID YOU GET YOURSELF ENROLLED IN A COACHING INSTITUTE?

HOW VALUABLE DO YOU THINK COACHING INSTITUTIONS CAN BE
FOR MBA?

I enrolled myself in a coaching institute as soon as I started preparation for CAT. For
me, it was very valuable as they provided a comprehensive set of study material and
scheduled mock exams at regular intervals. Having classes regularly also helped me
pace my preparation as per a fixed schedule and not lag behind in any particular
topic. The input of the coaching institution was even more valuable while preparing
for the interviews as they guided me very well on how to handle and be confident
during all sorts of interview scenarios.

WHICH COACHING INSTITUTE DID YOU GO TO? WAS IT POSSIBLE

FOR YOU TO ATTEND EVERY CLASS?

I studied at a coaching institute named ‘Endeavor Careers’, with the center located
approximately 4 km from the University. The classes were scheduled on Mondays,
Wednesdays and Fridays from 7-9 pm. There was a study room that was open 24
hours, 365 days a year. There was also a well-stocked library for the CAT aspirants
to hone their English skills. Extra classes were also scheduled sometimes on
weekends. Additionally, once the mock tests started, students were allotted slots for
the same based on their preferences so as to avoid any clash with college
schedules. I would say I roughly attended 90% of the classes, missing out mostly
when I went for my internships or had some prior personal engagement. Backup
classes were provided by the institute whenever students missed a class for a
genuine application. Also, at the end of my 4th year, I opted not to go for internships
and stayed in the University campus during May and June so that I could attend
classes at the institute.

HOW MANY HOURS DID YOU PUT IN FOR YOUR PREPARATIONS

EVERY DAY? IS IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE A FIXED SCHEDULE OR
WEEKLY TARGETS?

As said earlier, it all depends on the person. For the first year, I would study a
maximum of 2-3 hours a day. However, in the last six months, I studied anywhere
from 4-8 hours daily, depending on my other workload. I had my fixed schedule only
in the form of classes that I attended at my coaching institute. Other than that, I
mostly stuck to determining weekly or fortnightly targets and then reaching them at
my pace.

HOW DID THE OTHER MANAGEMENT ENTRANCE TESTS LIKE MAT &
XAT TURN OUT TO BE?

I took exams for other institutes such as XAT, IIFT, NMAT, etc. I cleared some of
them while in some I did pretty badly. It all boils down to not losing your nerve and
remaining calm when you have a set time limit to attempt a lot of questions. CAT
however, gave me the chance to get into the best B-school of the country.

CAT IS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST MANAGEMENT EXAMS. HOW DID

YOU PREPARE AND ACCUSTOM YOURSELF WITH THESE TOUGH
SUBJECTS?
CAT can be said to be one of the toughest management exams, but all it requires is
knowledge of English, High School level Mathematics, and Logical Reasoning. All
these can be prepared easily over time. CAT anyways does not test the conceptual
knowledge of candidates solely; rather it places more emphasis on the application of
this knowledge. Then it becomes important for the candidate to have a calm and
analytical approach towards questions, thinking about the best ways to attempt it,
and not just approaching it in a conventional way.

WHICH BOOKS/MATERIALS DID YOU RELY ON WHILE PREPARING?

I only referred to the study material provided to me by my coaching institution for

preparation, as it was more than sufficient to cover all topics.

LAKHS OF PEOPLE ATTEMPT THE CAT EXAM AND ONLY A

THOUSAND GET SHORTLISTED FOR THE INTERVIEW AND SECURE
ADMISSION TO A TOP B – SCHOOL. WHICH ARE THE PRIME SKILLS
AND EXPERTISE REQUIRED TO CRACK THE CAT?
What my experience with CAT tells me is that in the end, what matters is your
approach towards the exam, rather than your preparation for it. If you approach it
with a calm and rational mind, you will crack it. Since wrong answers carry a
negative score, it is very important to be confident of your answers. Questions can
be tricky, generally the most obvious (but wrong) answer would be the first option.
So you need to analyse a problem from all angles and be sure that you have not
missed out on any important information. Also, I have seen many brilliant candidates
faring badly in the exam because their nerves got the better side of them. Being calm
and confident is thus the key to cracking CAT.

WHAT STRATEGY DID YOU TAKE TO CRACK THE INTERVIEW?

I got approximately 22 days to prepare for the interview after the shortlist for IIM
Ahmedabad came out. It was my first interview for any of the B-schools I had applied
to and so I was quite nervous in the initial days. Over the days, however, I put in a lot
of effort towards preparation and grew more confident. I read up a lot about the
current events happening in the world, as well as our country. I had been reading
newspapers regularly for the past couple of months so it was not that difficult. I also
brushed up many of the subjects I had studied in Law school with the help of my
friends and teachers. My coaching institute mentors also conducted many mock
interviews with me, which helped a lot in getting a feeling of the real day.

WHAT KIND OF QUESTIONS HAVE YOU BEEN ASKED IN THE

INTERVIEW? GIVE SOME TIPS TO NAIL AN INTERVIEW IN ORDER TO
SECURE ADMISSION TO A TOP B–SCHOOL.

For IIM Ahmedabad, the interview lasted around 30-35 minutes. The initial 20
minutes were spent on academic questions. In the very beginning, the interviewers
asked me my favourite subjects in college (IPR and Constitutional Law were my
answers). The discussion moved from the benefits of IP protection, to the Novartis
case and finally to the newly formed NITI Aayog. The latter part of the interview was
mostly about current affairs and how comfortable I was with solving a question on
probability. There were also some general questions about my family, my taste in
literature and movies, and a very unexpected technical question on basketball.

For other institutes, such as XLRI or other IIM(s), the interviews were again broadly
based on academics, current affairs and situational questions. What I feel is that for
a B-school interview, firstly you have a decent hold of your academic subjects and
world affairs, and secondly, you should be able to convince the interviewers that you
are open to learning and will contribute to the institution.

WHICH SUBJECT INTERESTS YOU THE MOST? SHARE WITH OUR

READERS.

IIM Ahmedabad does not have any diversification between different streams. In the
first year, all courses are compulsory, with optional courses being offered in the
second year. As of now, I find myself interested in Consulting and Marketing.
HOW IS THE ACADEMIC PRESSURE AT IIM-A? WHAT IS A NORMAL
WORKDAY LIKE?

The academic pressure at IIM-A (or any other B-school) is much more intense than
at a Law school. Classes here are from 8:45 am to 1:10 pm, five days a week. Most
subjects use a case based approach to teaching, so the required cases for each
class have to be studied and understood the previous day. Additionally, all the
quizzes (tests as they are called here) are surprise quizzes, with a quiz being held
one hour post its announcement in the afternoon. There is also work involved if a
student is the member of any club or committee. A normal workday essentially
involves reaching the class in time, waiting for a quiz announcement at 1:45 pm if
any. Then it’s either giving the quiz at 2:45 pm or catching a few hours of sleep if
there is no quiz. Evenings can be spent studying, playing or engaged in any other
activity. Post dinner it is usually class preparation for the next day. A student cannot
miss classes other than for health reasons or on account of some urgent work that
requires so.

TELL US A BIT ABOUT THE FACULTY AND THE FACILITIES OF IIM-A.

The faculties with whom I have had interactions till now are experts in their
respective fields of study, holding post-doctoral degrees. Classes here are
interactive, with the faculty putting much emphasis on student participation. In terms
of facilities, we have a 24 hour library, sports facilities for all major sports, gymnasia,
5-6 cafes (with room delivery available) in addition to the mess, single occupancy
rooms and LAN connectivity in rooms (in addition to WiFi).
TELL US A BIT ABOUT THE CULTURAL ENVIRONMENT AT IIM-A.
ARE MOST OF THEM YOUNG STUDENTS OR SENIOR
PROFESSIONALS?

My batch here consists of a heterogeneous mixture of students from all sorts of

backgrounds. There are freshers like me, while there are also students with 4-5
years of work experience. In addition to engineers, we have chartered accountants,
commerce/ economics graduates and doctors in the batch. There is a healthy
representation from almost all the states of the country. This results in a very diverse
cultural and professional environment, which in turn greatly amplifies the learning
experience of the students.

WHAT ALL ACTIVITIES CAN ONE PARTAKE OF AT IIM-A?

There is no dearth of activities to take part at IIM-A. It is purely left to the choice of
the students. There are clubs focusing on all sorts of activities, ranging from the likes
of technology and finance to the likes of music/ movies and stargazing. There are
also a lot of competitions in diverse fields of management to take part in.
Additionally, students can also volunteer in social initiatives such as Prayaas and
SMILE, both of which cater to providing education for underprivileged children.

WHERE DO YOU WANT TO SEE YOURSELF FIVE YEARS FROM

NOW?

Well, to be unabashedly optimistic, I would like to see myself as a partner of a

consulting firm or in the senior management of an FMCG company after five years.
However, to be realistic, my life at IIM Ahmedabad has just started and I would like
to learn more about the opportunities available, before I decide on a career path.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE AN ENTREPRENEUR AFTER
FINISHING MBA?

Law and Management is one of the most potent combinations when it comes to
economic activities as both are inextricably linked in the larger scheme of running
businesses.

As of now, I have not considered pursuing any entrepreneurial venture. However, IIM
Ahmedabad has its very own Centre for Innovation, Incubation and Entrepreneurship
which helps students pursue and kickstart their ventures. So in case I do get bitten
by the entrepreneurial bug, I would be more than happy to pursue my own venture.

WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE FOR LAW STUDENTS WHO WANT TO

CHOOSE MBA AS A CAREER AFTER PURSUING LAW?

In India, MBA after pursuing Law is not very common, and I had had my shares of
frowns and weird looks when initially I told people of my decision. Their usual
reaction used to be that this kid has gone bonkers, an MBA is not for lawyers.
However, I had the full support of my family and friends, who kept me motivated
throughout my preparation period.

I believe that an MBA is a very valuable degree especially for a lawyer, as each and
every business is inextricably linked with Law in the larger scheme of things. Leading
a business can thus be relatively easier for a person who understands the intricacies
of the Law within which the business has to operate. Also, there are hardly any non-
engineers and non-commerce students in Indian B-schools. Thus students with a
background like Law or medicine are highly valued due to the diverse skill set they
bring to the institution. If a person is keen on going to a B-school, he/she should just
be sure about it and prepare with confidence. The Law degree will only help in later
stages, and never be a hampering factor.
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HIGHER STUDIES

Charitha Shashiraj, LL.M Candidate,

Harvard Law School, on all about
Harvard and Magic Circle Traineeship

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 28, 2015
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Charitha Shashiraj graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad in 2014. She went for a
Vacation Scheme at Linklaters and Allen & Overy and thereafter, secured a job at
Linklaters, London. However, she chose to pursue an LL.M from Harvard Law
School over the Magic Circle job.

In this interview she talks about:

 Application and the admission process at Harvard Law School

 Faculty, facility and opportunities at Harvard
 Application process and importance of vacation schemes in Magic Law Firms

HOW DID YOU CHOOSE LAW AS A CAREER OPTION?

I’m a first-generation lawyer in my family and when I was in school, like most people
I harbourednotionsof lawyers as peoplewho milled around in courts in billowing black
robes.So law was not something I had planned to doinitially, I was more of a math-
and-science-freak. A friend of mine who was a year up in school convinced me
otherwise after joining NLS.

I think it was CLAT that brought home the point that law was as much about logic,
reasoning and creativity as the sciences. And when I was cleared to go to one of the
best law schools in the country at the time, I took it as a sign.
HOW WAS YOUR NALSAR EXPERIENCE?

NALSAR gave me opportunities that I know I would have found nowhere else and I
cannot emphasize how grateful I am for it.

I went to Singapore for an exchange programme in my third year, mooted at national

and international moots, wrote papers, chaired editorial boards, taught the junior
batches, interned at every opportunity and so much else, and did well at almost
everything only because NALSAR gives us the resources and support to excel not
just at academics, but at other things as well. Throughout law school, I learned to
open my mind and question established norms in society. Activism and social
change is a huge dimension of NALSAR’s education and while I might not always
have been an active participant, I never failed to appreciate that it was the best part
of law school. Ultimately, we had the best of everything- intellectual discussions
peaked, top tier law firms in the country vied to take us, Magic Circle firms from
London came down for interviews and the best universities in the world opened their
gates for us.
TELL US A BIT ABOUT THE ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND BUSINESS
LAW DIPLOMA ONLINE PROGRAMME FROM NUJS. HOW DID IT
HELP YOU?
The EABL course attracted my attention primarily because something of this nature
was almost unheard of in Indian law schools. Law students are often heard
complaining that there’s not much we draw from classes on corporate law when it
comes to actually working in a law firm. In that respect, the EABL Diploma course
was bound to be an immediate success- directly hearing from practitioners in the
field and working through problems based on real transactions, that’s the only
possible way learning in theory can transition into practice. I distinctly recall
accessing some of EABL’s documents when I was working on a Banking problem in
AMSS, to understand what related laws I should be looking into. The reading
material was really impressive- it was concise and organized, yet comprehensive. It
was incredibly helpful and I’d highly recommend it to anyone who’s looking to make
a mark in the corporate law sector.

WHICH FIRMS DID YOU APPLY TO? WHAT IS THE SELECTION

PROCESS IN LINKLATERS AND WHAT DOES THE FIRM EXPECT
FROM AN INDIAN LAW STUDENT?

I sat my interviews for Linklaters and Allen and Overy in the penultimate year of law
school and eventually chose to go to Linklaters. That’s where I’ll be headed in
September to start as a Trainee Solicitor. The key to securing a place in these firms
is to think on your feet. The application process is much like your LL.M applications,
but the interviews really test how fast and how creatively you think. Be prepared to
answer HR questions that aimto test your skill set, which you will be asked to
exemplify using various examples from your life. More important though is the
technical interview, which would entail a basic working knowledge of how an M&A
transaction works and what purpose a Due Diligence Report serves. Linklaters has a
series of logical reasoning tests that you have to go through, the kind that CLAT
tests you on. And a simulated exercise where you have to answer a set of emails
within a stipulated time that gauges how you would, as a Trainee, respond to
different and difficult situations in the firm. A&O has a similar exercise that requires
you to peruse a DD Report in a particular time frame and answer questions about
the transaction. The questions are definitely more logic than knowledge based but it
does assume a basic understanding of corporate law. You also need to have some
basic knowledge about the firm itself, its offices and some of the transactions that
are currently ongoing.

PLEASE TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR VACATION SCHEME

EXPERIENCE.

In my personal experience, these Vacation Schemes were significantly different from

Indian Internships. They genuinely care about giving you the best possible training
and the entire internship is very structured and organized to the last possible detail. It
is as much about you choosing them as they choosing you and they make every
effort to impress you. You sit with the supervisor assigned to overlook your work
throughout, so help is available at any and every point in time. Senior trainees and
associates are more than willing to make time for you if you approach them for help,
even if they have their hands full with their own work. Trainees do a lot of the
paperwork once the decisions have been made, editing and sometimes even drafting
the supplemental agreements, especially in the smaller groups. We attend
conference calls and client meetings as well. There is plenty of opportunity to relax
and catch up with colleagues during team activities, retreats and over evening
drinks. You might have to put in some long hours on some days, but I think it’s worth
the effort.
AFTER THAT, YOU WENT ON TO PURSUE LL.M. FROM HARVARD
LAW SCHOOL. WHAT WERE THE OTHER UNIVERSITIES OF CHOICE?

Honestly, I was unsure whether I should continue to study further since I already had
an offer from Linklaters. I decided that I would opt for an LL.M only if it was one of
the best in the world and so I applied only to Oxbridge and Harvard, given their
unparalleled reputation. Yale and Columbia would probably have been my other
choices, if I had to choose more.

DID YOU CONSIDER TAKING UP A JOB IN THE USA ITSELF? WHAT

WERE THE OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE TO YOU?

I wanted to keep my options open, but most legal positions in the US require you to
take the Bar Exam. There are certain basic courses that are pre-requisites to take
the Bar but these cut significantly into the credits available for the academic year and
prevented me from diversifying into courses that I was really interested in.
Eventually, I decided that I didn’t want to forego the rare opportunity that Harvard
afforded me – to study thought-provoking courses with stellar professors who in
many cases are the world’s foremost experts on the topic. I was fairly secure since I
had a job lined up already and in any case I preferred London’s more refined lifestyle
to the American way of life. It was a hard decision I made at the time, but I think all in
all a good one.

WHAT WAS THE ADMISSION PROCESS FOR SECURING A SEAT AT

HARVARD LAW SCHOOL?

The admissions process for the Harvard LL.M proceeds in several stages.
Applications are usually due sometime in November-December. Once the completed
application is submitted, applicant’s recommenders receive emails requesting them
to upload their recommendations to a secure web portal. Applicants will not be at
liberty to view the recommendations but it is upto them to ensure that the
recommendations are uploaded directly by the recommender withinthe specified
deadline. Like most US institutions, you can use the LSAC services to send the
required documents to Harvard. The LSAC is basically an integrated service that
several top US institutions subscribe to. For a small fee, you can avoid having to
mail/courier documents separately to each institution. The documents can (in some
cases, have to) be sent to LSAC, where they will be vetted and sent out to the
institutions of your choice.

WHAT DO THE SELECTORS EXPECT FROM AN APPLICATION OF A

LAW STUDENT AT HARVARD?

The application itself is fairly straight-forward, divided into easily understandable

sections that require the applicant to furnish personal details and highlight their
personal achievements and work experiences. Needless to say, it demands a high
level of competency and is a holistic review of your achievements right from high
school tolaw school and any work experience gained subsequently. Ensure that you
do a thorough job on the application andtake time to think through every major
activity/achievement of your formative years. One thing worth mentioning in the
application is the part that requires you to list the subjects you are potentially
interested in studying at Harvard. Remember that it is no marker of what you might
eventually end up studying once accepted into the program. My advice would be to
think strategically and build an application based on an area that you have already
worked and excelled in that would support your credibility when you evince an
interest in pursuing an LLM.So an ‘area of expertise’, if you will, rather than an area
of interest. For instance, I was interested in both Corporate Law and Gender Studies
but had no significant experience in the latter. I think (though I might be mistaken)
that chances at success would have been considerably lesser if I had indicated an
interest in Gender Studies while my entire application screamed corporate law.
Eventually, despite having had no previous exposure in that area, once I was
accepted I chose to pursue Gender Studies. They want to see a carefully crafted
application. And most importantly, they want to see what drives your decision to do
an LLMso its imperative that you give them a compelling reason for wanting to do the
LLM in the first place.Focus every aspect of the application on one area- it is also an
indicator of how focused and organized you are as a person.

Perhaps the most important part of the application is the essay that has to be written
on a contemporary matter of the applicant’s choice. I would say that this should
preferably be something related to what has been indicated as your area of interest.
It should be creative, concise, cohesive, relevant and structurally sound. It might be
this alone that sets you apart from the other applicants to Harvard, all of whom are
assuredly high-achievers.

HOW FAR DO YOU THINK HARVARD GRANTS FINANCIAL AID TO

FOREIGN STUDENTS? WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE FOR OBTAINING
SUCH AN AID?

Should the applicant wish to apply for financial aid, there is a separate application
that has to be filled and this would require the applicant to submit not just their
financial status but also their parents’ financial details. Harvard is very generous with
their financial aid, which can be in the form of a loan (not interest-free), a grant or a
combination of both. Their aid is need-based, not merit-based like scholarships in
general.

WHAT OPPORTUNITIES DOES HARVARD PROVIDE TO FOREIGN

STUDENTS?
The variety in the courses on offer at Harvard is unimaginable- there are over 400
courses to choose from- which are as broad as ‘International Law’ to niche topics like
‘Law and Neuroscience’. There are fascinating courses associated with literature and
the arts, which can be extremely fun to explore, such as ‘Justice in Shakespeare’s
Plays’ or ‘Music and Digital Laws’. There are theory-based courses for the thinkers
and practical skill-based ones for the shooters. In addition to this, the LL.M allows
you to cross-register with prestigious institutions like MIT or Fletcher as well as the
other Harvard schools as a substitute for law school credits, a remarkable
opportunity to reach out to non-law friends. LL.Ms generally opt for courses with a
more international scope, but many of them looking to work in the US do prefer US-
centric courses, both options are well catered to at Harvard. We sit our classes with
the JD students; there are no courses that are exclusive to LL.Ms alone. Once again,
this provides us with the chance to interact with a wider circle, and learn from the
best of our contemporaries. Hands on experience can be gained through a variety of
co-curricular and extra-curricular activities, including societies, lunch talks, guest
lectures, demonstrations, clubs and most importantly clinics, where legal
practitioners in both private and public services recruit students to engage in real
ongoing deals. The most common refrain I’ve heard from every LL.M is that the nine-
month course is bursting with activities that are far in excess of what its possible to
do in that short period so make no mistake, it’s going to be a chaotic year.

It’s not all studies either. There’s plenty of opportunity for day trips during weekends,
and longer ones during the spring break. Sports, mooting, music and every other
activity you can think of happens everyday. Harvard also sponsors activities like a
wine-tasting club. So trust me when I say that anyone and everyone, no matter what
your interests or inclinations, will find what they love at Harvard, academics or
otherwise. It might seem overwhelming at times, but at any given point there are at
least six people, including previous LL.Ms and current SJDs who have been officially
assigned who you can approach for advice in any matter, not to mention plenty of
other people who are always eager to help. Talk to people, make friends. Use the
year well and “you will never again find a place in the world where you would have to
seek out a hotel” – that was the first thing we were told during the orientation.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT HOW THE CLASSES ARE CONDUCTED IN

HARVARD, WHAT METHOD OF TEACHING IS FOLLOWED BY
TEACHERS AND WHAT OTHER THINGS THAT MAKES HARVARD
DISTINCT FROM OTHER LAW SCHOOLS?

Classes can be in the form of courses (group of 80-100 students), seminars (group
of 20 or so) or reading groups (groups of 12). The smaller classes understandably
tend to be more intensive in terms of readings and discussions and they run into
more depth in terms of subject matter. The bigger classes generally test you on
exams, which can be both in-class and take-home, whereas the smaller ones expect
everyday participation and daily/weekly reports and papers. You are also required to
write an original 25/50 page LL.M dissertation to complete the course.

It goes without saying that the professors and teaching methods are top-notch.
Readings are more theory and case law based, and there’s very less statutory law
relied upon. Most professors follow the Socratic method of teaching, something you
rarely encounter in Indian law schools. Very few professors opt for lecture style
teaching, most only lead ‘discussions’ in class. This means having to read what
could possibly be hundreds of pages before every class and being prepared to
answer questions on it if called upon. In my experience this tends to generate a more
productive discussion, not only because students are more involved but also
because I found their views are sometimes more refreshing and insightful than the
professors. You would not expect JDs who have no law background to be so sharp,
but their observations are fascinating- just to see the way they have been taught to
think was incredible. If there is something I most admired about Harvard, it’s the
liberty and free-thinking that it allows and encourages, something you tend not to find
often in Indian law schools.
HOW DOES AN LL.M DEGREE HELP YOU AFTER YOU GRADUATE
FROM HARVARD?

To be honest, the LL.M does not do much for your CV if you are looking primarily for
a job in India, particularly in the corporate sector. Most people who pursue a Harvard
LL.M are already experienced and accomplished and are looking to take a break
from work or attempting to break into the US legal sector/international organizations.
That said, Harvard is worth it even if purely for the experience and you learn a lot
more in terms of life skills than academically. For me, Harvard was an intellectual
pursuit, and suffice it to say that I couldn’t be more grateful that I made the decision
to apply for it; my fellow classmates were undoubtedly the brightest minds in the
world and every conversation, whether within or outside the classroom adds
something of valueto your knowledge.

There’s no doubt about the fact that Harvard opens up a world of opportunities. Most
people subscribe to the NY Job Fair where top-tier law firms from all over the world
interview candidates for various positions, similar to placement day in Indian law
schools, only on a larger scale. I know a friend who sat 12 interviews in one day (still
don’t know how he managed to do that). I’m limited in my knowledge of placements
because I didn’t sit for one at Harvard. But I can assure youthat from the very
beginning of the admissions process the Consultations Office at Harvard takes
proactive measures to ensure Harvard students are aware of every opportunity
available to them. If there is one thing you can be sure of, it is that no stone will be
left unturned in trying to find you a suitable job. There are two offices that help
students seek out jobs and they send frequent updates on openings in both private
and public positions. Studentsgot placed at the World Bank, the UN, and every other
premier institution onecan dream of.

WHAT MADE YOU OPT FOR GENDER STUDIES AT HARVARD? WHAT

ALL DID YOU LEARN OUT OF THE COURSE?

My primary focus was on Gender Studies, with related courses in Constitutional Law
to supplement it. I can’t say there was any particular incident that drove my decision,
but law school in general had piqued my interest in this area. We generally study for
23-27 credits in the entire term. I took courses on Feminist Legal Theory, Sex
Equality, Family Law, Comparative Constitutional law and the Fourteenth
Amendment amongst others, all with a gender specific focus. Perhaps my best
experience was with Sex Equality where I had the privilege of being taught by Prof.
Catherine MacKinnon, a legend in the feminist movement who is considered world
over as the pioneering figure in radical feminism. However, as far as my intellectual
pursuit went, I think I was most passionate about Feminist Legal Theory, taught by
Prof. Janet Halley who also supervised my LL.M thesis on the Hindu Joint Family.
The course was wildly liberating, her brand of feminism is starkly different from usual
accounts and I found myself questioning a lot of the previous assumptions I had
about it. Having never had any formal education in feminist literature previously, I
was amazed at how much there was to it.

Apart from the usual courses for credits, we also have the opportunity to sit in on
classes just as an observer and that’s a real advantage. With the prior permission of
the instructor, we can learn from the entire gamut of famous Harvard professors. Not
to mention the multiple guest lectures that happen on an everyday basis, with
famous personalities like Mitt Romney, Justices Elena Kagan and Scalia, and Justice
Albie Sachs in attendance amongst others. To hear them speak and learn from them
first hand was an unforgettable experience.

DO YOU INTEND TO DO PURSUE HIGHER STUDIES AT ANY POINT

OF TIME?

At some point I also intend to study further, and do a PhD. Harvard offers you the
opportunity to do an SJD which is the equivalent of a PhD but it is a five-year course
as against the usual 3 years in the UK. It is however, extremely selective and niche
since the candidates are chosen largely from the previous LL.M batches. I was keen
to continue with the same and my supervisor was equally eager but eventually, I
thought the time commitment seemed too much. Having never had any significant
work experience before I thought it’s high time I gain some exposure now. I will
probably apply to Oxford or Cambridge for a PhD soon.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO LEAVE SOME MESSAGE FOR OUR READERS?

Try to do the best at whatever you do. Most people suggest that you should find and
follow your passion, but throughout my life I’ve learnt to be passionate about
anything I do; whether it is something I really wanted to do has been a secondary
concern. Accept that you will not always get what you want, so its important to not be
disillusioned by this; rather, take every opportunity you getand work at it with the
same zeal you would have for your dream. I’ve always lived by this principle and I
think I’ve been the happier for it.
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ACADEMICS, RESEARCHERS & INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATIONS

Prof. Bhavani Prasad Panda, Vice

Chancellor, Maharashtra National Law
University, on setting up MNLU,
research in disaster management & a
career in academics

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 23, 2015
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Prof. Bhavani Prasad Panda is the Vice-Chancellor of Maharashtra National Law
University, Mumbai. He graduated in LL.B from Lingaraj Law College, Berhampur,
Orissa in 1979. Thereafter he went on to pursue higher studies in different disciplines
of law.

Prior to his present designation Prof. BP Panda has held 16 other educational seats
in various law institutes of India. He found his place as the Principal of NBM Law
College, Professor of WBNUJS, Principal of Lingaraj Law College, Dean, Faculty of
Legal Studies (BU), Chairman, Board of Studies Law, BU among others. He has
numerous publications and has been an active member of different academic,
executive and financial councils of various institutions till date.

In this interview we talk about –

 Studying Physics in his graduating years at SKCG College, Odisha.

 His journey through Behrampur University, Odisha – as a student and later as
an academician
 Being the Vice-Chancellor of MNLU
 Case study of “Super-Cyclone”: a major research conducted in the aftermath
of the 1999 disastrous cyclone in Odisha.
 Journey from Assistant Professor to Professor at WBNUJS
 Advise to the future legal academicians of India

TELL US ABOUT YOUR EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND BEFORE

COLLEGE AS WELL YOUR GRADUATION YEARS AT SKCG
COLLEGE, ODISHA.

My early childhood education was conducted at the Government school of

Paralakhemundi, Gajapati District, Odisha. Later on up to intermediate studies got
educated at Visakha Tutorial College and at the very reputed Mrs. AVN College of
Visakhapatnam in Andhra Pradesh.

I studied graduation with physics honours from S K CG College, Paralakhemundi,

Gajapati District, Odisha. and remained active in college politics during the
emergency period of 1975-76. Failed to get good score at B.Sc (Hons.)
consequently, also failed to get a seat in M.Sc Physics at the local University. And
due to financial difficulties could not go to other universities to pursue Physics. Under
‘no way out’ situation joined LL.B. at Lingaraj Law College, Berhampur University
with a lot of hesitation, reluctance and guilt. Nobody at the house appreciated my
joining Law College. My family members expected that I should study science and
get into a good job.

HOW DID YOUR INTEREST GRAVITATE TOWARDS LAW?

Adding to my ill mood for joining law, the law college was located in a shabby,
dilapidated building in a hospital premises, reflecting a nauseate feeling of the
surrounding. The college used to function from 7:00AM to 12 Noon with hardly 2
(two) professors on its roll. The whole environment at Law College was far from
academics and my previous experience of educational institutions with best of
institutional structure. However, in the damp atmosphere after resigning to my fate
started attending classes, soon I got involved with legal education and also once
again became active in college politics for obtaining better amenities, facilities,
environment and making issue for increasing number of teachers to the college.

YOU COMPLETED YOUR LL.B FROM BEHRAMPUR UNIVERSITY,

ODISHA. TELL US ABOUT YOUR LAW SCHOOL JOURNEY.

Formerly, being a student of Physics there were many advantages like groomed to
be analytical, logical, practical and disciplined. These learning habits when invested
on legal education there were encouraging returns. The books of law, literature,
political theory inspired me very much for getting seriously involved in legal
education. Reading books of literature, and political science at the law college library
was a rare opportunity for a physics student. Soon I realised that there is enough
world beyond physics and science, and learning law and studying political science is
more nearer to understand life, society and the state craft. Within few months at the
Law College, it appeared that the Law College Library is a luxurious space that
propelled the appetite for knowledge. Thrilled by the first lessons of law,
jurisprudence, political theory started reading biographic of legal luminaries and
political scientists. Pleasure of reading books doubled with reading of conceptual
basis of the state, citizen and the law. This was a sort of self relishing, and purely a
voluntary involvement. Developed unconsciously a habit that after reading a book, to
search for someone and narrate what has been read, before reading another book.
Soon created a circle where the political issues, jurisprudence were debated
passionately. So also reported judgments were argued as if things happened there
and the impacts can be many.

The legal education appeared to be the real subject and precisely for which I was
meant. I felt tremendously satisfied that I was studying law. Often entered into
debate that legal education and legal profession is meant far more responsible
persons with flair in social work, statesmanship; and it is holistic scholarship with
heritage of literature, politics, sociology, economics, history and skills of advocacy.
But unfortunately in India pupil join to law when they find rejected elsewhere.
Sometimes I was successful in convincing people with my arguments and
sometimes I used to return to study more to logically establish my point.

To supplement the economic needs, part time tuition to school children up to +2 level
were taken up and learned to be independent without bothering parents about
finance, as many of the students in Odisha do.

WE KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN A CONSISTENT TOP SCORER IN ALL

SUBJECTS. TELL US A BIT ABOUT IT.

At the end of the first year of Law, it came as surprise for scoring highest mark in
four subjects out of six and got nominated as the best student of the law college.
Teachers became friends and got opportunity to spend more time among teachers’
company. During the second year of LL.B, I started taking interest in teaching the
first year students as and when the concerned teacher of the class remained absent.
I always waited for the opportunity to teach in the classroom at junior class, and was
accepted by friends for the purpose and started training colleagues for moot-court,
other academic competitions as well as assisted friends for competitive
examinations.

The inputs of labour to legal studies were hardly anything compared to studying
physics at graduation level. From the remote distant of Berhampur, Odisha, the law
college made it’s presence feel by bagging prizes in national moot-court
competitions. At the end of 3 year LL.B studies, bagged all the gold medals meant
for LL.B.

As a student of LL.B, with a mission to change the stigma to the prevalent legal
education that is mired with mass-copy, last-option course, and things like that, I
participated actively in college politics and got elected as President of the Students
Union and achieved reformation in the examination system made it free from much
tainted malpractice at Berhampur University. The State Government and the
University Authorities were compelled to construct a new building with holistic
infrastructure facilities for the Law College. The foundation stone was laid and
accordingly a new building of the Law College was built, as a constituent College of
Berhampur University, Odisha.

AFTER THE SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF YOUR LLB DEGREE,

YOU OBTAINED NUMEROUS OTHER COURSES AS WELL. CAN YOU
TELL OUR READERS ABOUT YOUR TIMELINE AFTER BEHRAMPUR
UNIVERSITY?

I joined M.L at Andhra University College of Law in the year 1980, and after
completion of the academic period of study, found it difficult to cope up with
economic needs. Joined as a Commercial Executive in New Delhi, with M/s. Desein
– Indure Group of Companies and got exposed to the industrial and commercial
world in the country (1982-87).

During my period in Delhi, I obtained ‘Diploma on Corporate Laws and Secretarial

Practices’, conducted by Indian Law Institute, New Delhi; (1982-83) and also studied
M.A. in Politics at Andhra University by private appearance (1983-85). However,
there prevailed an inner calling to get back to legal education/profession.

In the year 1987, with little struggle, I obtained the LL.M degree from Andhra
University and decided to join litigations at Visakhapatnam, giving up the alluring job
at Delhi, enrolled as an I advocate to practice at Visakhapatnam. More than the
practice at the Court, the local Private Law College teaching assignments provided
me satisfaction and I soon joined as the Principal of the NBM Law College.

WHILE YOU WERE THE PRINCIPAL OF NBM LAW COLLEGE, YOU

HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF MEETING PROF. MADHAV MENON. CAN
YOU SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH OUR READERS?

During those struggling (1988-94) years of making a quality Law College, I got the
opportunity to meet Prof. N R Madhava Menon who practically provided a new
orientation to the mission of life and the concern for legal education. In the refreshers
course at NLSIU Bangalore, Prof. Menon gave all the participants a forum and
provided an opportunity to interact with the legal luminaries of the country like Prof.
Upendra Bakshi, Prof. N L Mitra, Prof. Ranbir Singh, Prof. B B Pande, Prof M P
Singh, Prof. Chandrsekahran Pillai, Justice Krishna Iyer, Justice Hidayatullah,
Justice Venkatachaliah, Advocate Ram Jethmalani, Advocate K K Venugopal,
Advocate F S Nariman, Advocate Ranjit Mohanty and many others.
Professor Menon was perhaps least knowing that he was creating so many future
Vice Chancellors like Balraj Chauhan, Gurjit Singh, B L Sharma, S K D Rao, B
Nagraj, N K Chakraborty, V Hemalata, L Jaisree, Faizan Mustafa, including me.

We were all so fortunate to follow Prof. Menon both by letter and spirit. All of us
value the learning at NLSIU, Bangalore which was of great help.

Later you enrolled for Ph.D working for “Adolescent Offenders” in 1990. Tell us about
your experience.

I accomplished my Ph.D work in the year 1994. It was a total involvement for
conducting research about adolescent offenders undergoing sentence at
Visakhapatnam Borstal schools. I still feel the Borstal school system of reformation
of adolescents up to the age of 23 is more mature and better system of
institutionalisation and reformation compared with much acclaimed juvenile justice
system. The country has not given free and fair opportunity to Borstal School System
and is being neglected to perish under the eclipse of JJ Act.

AMONGST YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE LEGAL JOURNEY,

ACADEMIA HAS BEEN IN THE FOREFRONT. WHAT WERE THE
PLATFORMS WHICH CONTRIBUTED TO THIS JOURNEY?

My best years of teaching and academic administration were at NBM Law College,
Visakahapatnam, it provided a platform for me to experiment everything what I felt
best with legal education including classroom teaching/ lectures. I found some of my
school time teachers and schoolmates joined in the evening college, and were all
committed to attend my classes. It gave me pride and satisfaction. The college made
a record progress and best students of the area joined to enhance the credibility of
the law college.
In 1994 joined as a Senior Lecture in Law at a premier University – Utkal University
of Odisha. The M.S. Law College being the first Law College in Odisha
manufactured about 90% of Advocates at the Odisha High Court, 80% of the Judges
at the High Court and the subordinate Judiciary and also provided law degrees to
70% Legislators in the State of Odisha. But the College remained far behind to
contribute any quality legal education. During the days of service struggled hard to
change the environment for Faculty Members coaxing them to enrich with greater
exposure and wider participations in Law Seminars and Conferences. Also struggled
to initiate the All India Bar Council Moot Court Competition, at Cuttack which
somehow could conclude in 1996, this to register the college name in the national
list.

In 1996, joined as a Reader in Law at Post-graduate Department of Law, Berhampur

University and actively participated in academic activities to modernise the prevalent
out-dated courses and syllabus being taught and got occupied with the University
System of Administration.

In the year 2000 joined NUJS Calcutta, as a Founding Teacher along with Professor
N R Mahdava Menon to establish the National Law University. It was a great
experience to work with Prof. Menon in the founding days of NUJS Calcutta. In 2002
after availing the lien period joined back to Berhampur University and this time
worked hard to contribute to the development of the Lingaraj Law College. It was an
amount of satisfaction to join as the Principal of the Law College, where I was a
student, but there the struggle for quality development was much more. There was a
little cooperation from any side. As a student leader achieved more success than as
a principal of the law college. Dissatisfied returned back to the Post –Graduate
Department of Law, Berhampur University.

Quickly finding little leisure time, I got engaged in conducting post-doctorial research
studies and completed the work in 2006 obtaining LL.D degree from Berhampur
University.
In the year 2008, after a renewed association with Prof. M P Singh, joined NUJS
Calcutta, for a second stint after obtaining two years lien from Berhampur University,
and actively participated in University activities both academic and administration.

In 2010 returned back to Berhampur University. Found it hard to contribute to the

newer challenges to legal education and corresponding deterioration in educational
standards vis-à-vis growing challenges participated actively in University general
administration until 2014.

I took voluntary retirement to assume charge as Vice-Chancellor of MNLU Mumbai

on 10.10.2014.

HOW DID YOU STRATEGIZE YOUR WORK ON LEGAL RESEARCH?

During the time I enrolled for PhD there were very few research guides available to
provide the direction and supervise research work to its logical end.

Research in law for an academician is a must; we learned the first lessons about
research at Professor Menon’s Workshop. Little learnt and much unlearnt but with a
great zeal to contribute to society with legal knowledge enrolled for PhD.

Legal Research by itself a separate discipline and methodology was not fully grown.
Every research teacher explained the conduct of research and thesis writing in quite
differently, mostly bookish or very confused. The practical implementation of the
learning from most of the teachers was very difficult or impossible.

I spent quite some time in contemplating how to start legal research. I read many
books of sociological methods of research as I was planning to do research in
criminal law, and I was not getting a clue how to go about – choosing topic, defining
the research problem, setting goal and designing the research. I started diving
straight into prison studies and later focused on adolescent offenders at Borstal
School of Visakhapatnam. Read more and more existing literature on young adult
offenders from books of criminology and law. It happened on its own motion that I
could identify the research problem and formulated hypothesis and realised the
roadmap of the research terrain. Essentially, research is an individual personal
scholarship and involvement and there can never be any fixed straight jacket method
and finite prescription from any supervisor. I realised why the teachers were so
different and incoherent. It has to evolve creatively on one’s own involvement and
provide strength of logic and reasoning to defend the thesis that is being advanced.

I was happy to contribute a unique work on adolescent offender in legal research. My

involvement was little bit more than mere legal research work for PhD and emotional
involvement with the staff, administration and inmates of Borstal School at
Visakhapatnam. I continued to argue for eulogising the working of custodial system
where any youth in conflict with law however heinous the crime may be put to
reformation model maximum up to the age of 23years and was then allowed to
assimilate in the mainstream of the society. The current controversy of 16-18years
age group of juvenile stands fully addressed in the system, but unfortunately in India
we never explore all the sentencing options before passing an order. Most of the
legal fraternity do not know what the Borstal School System is about. The institution
is under eclipse of Juvenile Justice System clout. I still hold that the young adults
need be reformed in a specially designed institution like that of Borstal School
System under Correctional Administration. The prison system cannot be condemned
as ‘jail for penal action for hardcore convicts alone’. We need to change our prison
into Correctional Houses.

PLEASE TELL OUR READERS ABOUT THE CASE STUDY BEHIND

THE ‘THE SUPER CYCLONE’ OF 1999 IN ODISHA. ALSO TELL US
ABOUT YOUR INTEREST IN ‘DISASTER MANAGEMENT STUDIES’.

I was disturbed, and developed interest in observing the recovery phase and the
human rights aspect of relief operation. The tragedy after super cyclone is more
horrible. Crime rate increased. Hunger coupled with poverty loomed large. Funds
were mismanaged. There were politics of funding and certification of ‘State v. Natural
disaster’. There has been politics of centre and state in relief funding etc.

In 2000, soon after the Bhuj Earth Quake, Professor Madhava Menon assigned me
with the work to make a case study of ‘Super Cyclone’, provided financial support for
the project. Over next two years along with the work at NUJS Kolkata and
Berhampur University devoted all extra hours to study on Super Cyclone and its
various facets of devastation and legal support mechanism; conducted seminars and
workshops and finally submitted a comprehensive report on ‘Case Study of Super
Cyclone’ to NUJS Kolkata. In 2005, the Disaster Management Act was enacted,
where the students and faculty of NUJS have contributed with the inputs of
experience from Odisha Super Cyclone and Bhuj Earth Quake.

In 2005-06, at Berhampur University designed and offered one year Post-Graduate

Diploma programme in Disaster Management, and I was surprised to see some of
the students got appointed as safety officers in certain establishments.

‘Disaster Management Studies’ became my new found hobby. In October 2013,

Odisha was struck with another very severe cyclonic storm called as ‘Phailin’. I was
eager to serve the state in terms of offering schemes for ‘impact reduction’. And
closely followed the state action for pre-emptive measures, Odisha was more
matured after Super Cyclone 1999 left no space for disaster to tell upon human life.
The preparations were well addressed and the meteorological department
predictions were properly used. The disaster was contained to loss of property and
loss of human life was only 34 almost negligible compared the size of the disaster
spell.
LATER YOU GOT ASSOCIATED WITH ODISHA FIRE SERVICES
DEPARTMENT TO WRITE A REPORT ON THEIR “RESPONSE
SYSTEM”. TELL US ABOUT THE NEW ROUTE OF YOUR LIFE.

Taking time off from the University, with total commitment I conducted the report and
the same was published by the OFS Department as a book. Odisha state
government accelerated the process of establishing the Fire Station Offices at every
block in whole of Odisha covering all the 335 blocks. The Fire Service Department of
Odisha got equipped with all types of disaster rescue and management services;
and with their experience they rendered a great service to the State of Andhra
Pradesh when it was struck by the cyclonic storm called ‘Hudhud’ and got applauds
from the State. Odisha Fire Service Department is one of the robust systems today
to encounter disaster, it stays ever prepared. A department not being taken seriously
by the states for services and/or for their contribution stands tall in Odisha. My
recommendations in the report were to a certain extent useful for the government to
strengthen OFS to its current status.

WHAT WERE YOUR PERSONAL TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS

EXPERIENCE?

I believe disasters provide a very good opportunity for everyone to contribute

something to the fellow being. It is a signal to part something. It provides lot many
lessons for ‘living and sharing together’. It strikes all the selfish aggrandisement and
calls for community participation. It implants a renewed zeal and hope for newer and
intelligent tomorrow, with life full of sacrifices. Natural Disasters are good and a
challenge to humanity. One need be humane and human with fellow being, that is
the way of life. I can speak on disasters for hours together how it can change life for
good.
WHAT IS YOUR PERCEPTION ON LEGAL ACADEMIA AS A CAREER?
HOW WOULD YOU GUIDE THE FUTURE TEACHERS OF INDIA?

India needs good, committed, honest, hardworking teachers. Teaching is a passion.

Teaching provides unlearning along with the students. Teachers need to be humble
and skilful. Teacher is made with lot of sacrifices, the compensation is limited to ‘a
good rejoicing class’. For a teacher, the best accomplishment the students should
grow beyond the teacher and realise their dreams as a good human and responsible
citizen of the country. In life everything deserved comes on its own for the person
who works for others. And many more values of being a teacher, I have seen in my
teachers, I respected them and loved to live like them. I still struggle in my pursuit to
live like my teachers. These values chained me into teaching, and I am happy.

Teaching can be a wonderful career pursuit for it provides the satisfaction of living a
life full of giving. Law teaching has to happen in a very refined and bigger way where
the legal scholarship will flourish for justice education. Enough is still to happen,
where men will learn to have a successful and contented life and pursuit of legal
profession. We should be able to logically explain where one is at wrong side and
what is due and appropriate. We should learn to respect the adversary. Advocacy
has much to offer. Dispute resolution and peace are interconnected, and language of
law should have that magic wand. It comes out of the human quality and character of
the arbitrator.

For me a good class with full of students intimately and continuously involved in
learning process is the fountain of pleasure. No wonder I am struggling to be a
teacher like my teachers.
YOU HAVE AUTHORED A NUMBER OF RESEARCH ARTICLES AND
BOOKS. IS THERE ANY INSPIRATION WHICH INCITES TO PURSUE
THIS?

Writing articles do not happen all the time. Nor writing a book is possible for writing
book sake. There has to be a creative streak. One simple idea which allures one can
be the matter of writing an article. The appetite should come from within, and the
research follows, reading a lot of literature is necessary to understand what is it that
one is so fond of and/or that keeps absorbed or disturbs the peace. It takes lot of
time to reach to the material of choice, and in the pursuit the idea gets involved with
other wonderful writings and scholarship; one need be dispassionate and remain
focused from the beauty of other scholarly articles. Once the ideas get concretised
and literature seems to be exhaust and one is updated with existing literature, one
can venture to enter into substantiating the points of view and when someone is able
to provide the logic and reason to establish the postulate, has accomplished a
research article. This need be reviewed, and verified with fellow colleagues.
Language of presentation should be simple to the core because the author stays
miles away from his very important readers.
Ideally speaking, research articles should happen as often as possible. It provides a
window to the world to look at the author and his view point while contributing to
knowledge system.

I could write only very few articles with zeal and self involvement, while bulk were
attended with a compulsion for contribution and participation at seminars and
conferences; and / or contributing to the request of a fellow teacher. I always enjoyed
writing in group, sharing views.

HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO ATTEND SEMINARS, CONFERENCES AND

WORKSHOPS CONDUCTED BY VARIOUS LEGAL LUMINARIES
WHILE IN LAW SCHOOL?

Seminars, Conferences and Workshops at National Law Universities are really good
ones and whereas at many of the state universities and law colleges it appeared
ritual and a function of get together. The culture of a good seminar linked with
scholarly exchange formally and informally during the time of seminar should
emerge. Only serious minded people who have done their homework and are
prepared to contribute with ideas can meaningfully participate. One should
meaningfully gain from such participation and quantify in a scale of learning.
Seminars should be a continuous affair with in the education system. There need be
daily seminars and exchange of ideas. More informal seminars need to happen from
voluntary groups of students on various issues of the nation, judgments delivered by
the courts and newspaper reports. And the views can be published periodically
appropriately.

At NUJS, once I did not feel attracted to a topic of seminar and chose to remain in
library during the time. Professor Menon called me to his office and asked the reason
for not being present in the seminar. And said “senior teachers have no choice to opt
out of university seminars however disinteresting the topic may be’, there is a need
to come out from the ‘disinterest’ in the realm of knowledge”. “Seminars are open
forum for learning and more unlearning”, is the lesson that I learnt.

HOW WAS YOUR TEACHING EXPERIENCE AT WBNUJS?

Professor Menon exposed me to cooperative teaching. One of the first experiences

to teaching and learning debut at NUJS was to co-teach with Professor Menon. We
were addressing class on ‘legal method’, the subject provides the first glimpse of law
to students. I made my preparations but in the class room the discussion went in a
different paradigm to my preparation and I had little to participate in the partnership. I
chose to vehemently oppose the postulates of law and found well attended by
Professor Menon. The class went on very successfully. It is the kindness of
Professor Menon, he praised me before everybody in the class. Later, he told me the
techniques of cooperative teaching. I enjoyed cooperative teaching. Two–three
teachers together can take up teaching together, and stage a script of substantial
delivery of teaching and learning.

Case method of teaching is another exercise, which divides the class into groups for
considered debate and yet another groups to sum up, while the teacher provides the
conceptual finish as conclusion.

At NUJS we were encouraged all innovative models of teaching and learning

process including on-field exercises at court hall, police station and other
workstations. We never had any one method, depending on the topic requirement
we adapted to different methods, mainly to drive out any monotony among the
students. We used visualise and invent surprises for the students in our teaching
exercises. We are happy we had great opportunity.
DO YOU THINK MNLU IS HAVING AN EDGE OVER THE OTHER NLUS
OF THE NATION? WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES WHICH AN NLU
SEATED IN MUMBAI RECEIVES?

First the location advantage, that we are in TISS campus. The whole of campus,
library, wi-fi system, the dining hall, the wisdom of the TISS faculty are at our hands
reach. It is a unique privilege which no NLU student in India must have got in the
very founding year. Thanks to TISS and the Hon’ble Chancellor Mr. Justice FM
Ibrahim Kalifulla who have been instrumental in the understanding.

Secondly, Mumbai provides a unique opportunity with rich resource of very learned
lawyers and retired judges who are always ready to assist the law students in their
academics. Most of the advocates and other members of legal fraternity are
associated with the local law colleges contributing their bit as part-time professors.
MNLU Mumbai will be certainly tapping the best of the resources for its students too.
There are the best of law firms in Mumbai and the students will be skilful enough to
find a good exposure and can participate with them in their vacations. So also the
whole field of legal practice and experimentation is open for the students in the
corporate climate to look litigation from different perspective including alternative
dispute resolution and arbitration experts. The students after five years from MNLU
Mumbai will have mine of opportunity in Mumbai alone. For availing the interaction
from the lawyers and judges, we are open on Sunday, it shall be our working day,
and our weekly holiday will be Wednesday. This arrangement will provide students
an opportunity to visit offices on Wednesday to collect material and right their project
assignments.

Thirdly, the education at MNLU Mumbai will have to be geared up to make study a
pleasant experience and at the same time competitive to take the challenges of life
as a matter of fact. We are fortunate, that we have seasoned faculty from social
sciences available at the immediate vicinity from TISS. We also have the support of
professional counsellors from TISS, to guide and ease any blues. Apart from the
teachers with in the campus, the students will have exposure to the best teachers
from other institutions in India. MNLU Mumbai will have to make such arrangement
until we develop our own cadre of best teachers. MNLU Mumbai will adopt various
methods of teaching and imparting education as are essential and appropriate to a
particular course, all option and autonomy will be given to teachers to make best of
class work.

Fourthly, the first batch of the students will get ample opportunity to vent their skills
and ideas and contribute to the student forums with facets of self-governance,
student-bar council, moot-court bar association, student discipline committee, anti-
ragging committee, welfare bodies, cultural club, athletic club, placement cell, and
establish a system of student self-administration. Also associated along with the co-
curricular activities they will have to design legal aid cell, arbitration house, disaster
management cell, drafting committee and things like that.
MNLU, Mumbai – Jogeshwari Campus
Fifthly, MNLU Mumbai is not in competition with any institution, but it shall create for
itself a distinct place in terms of its education skills, student discipline, teaching and
learning process. The idea is MNLU Mumbai shall be a forum to provide space and
opportunity for every member to enjoy their field of persuasion with a sense of
satisfaction and reap rich dividends in legal scholarship. More than competitive
achievements, the students will learn to enjoy their contribution to the society and
nation, by steadily growing to reach to their set goals. Students will be the maker of
the University for tomorrow. The administration shall facilitate the best practices to
happen. The students will realise at the end of five years, the time at MNLU has
given everything that they cherished in terms of legal scholarship, and they shall
have to feel proud to remain connected to lead the institution to greater heights.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SHARE WITH STUDENTS WHO ARE

NOT FROM AN NLU?

I feel sad when I look to the bulk of the law colleges, where students just manage to
get degree foolishly without any substance and degrade the law degree. Lot many of
them enrol as advocates without knowing what they are going to do. Some even
manage to become judges of the lower courts and struggle hard to meet the
demands of justice. The society suffers a lot out of their ignorance. A lot of measures
need be taken to overhaul the traditional law colleges. Bar Council of India is
struggling to change the system.

The above position being disastrous, a fine opportunity also awaits for a serious
minded law student to bake his cake. If the studies are taken seriously in those law
colleges with scanty of facilities, and goals are fixed to excel in that little sphere,
there can still be space for continuing with that spree of perfecting on and on in life.
The opportunity is that a sincere student can achieve easily the best among the
deprived atmosphere. There is no short cut to success, but one should learn to enjoy
harder task. Life should be full of pleasantness, which emanates from knowledge
alone. In the world, there is enough for everyone to pick and remain content as long
one realises one’s own ability to carry.

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CLICK TO COMMENT

ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Trisha Mitra, Legal Trainee, Shearman

& Sterling, on Masters in International
Dispute Settlement from GIDS, Geneva
and a career in Int’l Arbitration
ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 22, 2015

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Trisha Mitra graduated as a lawyer in 2012 from the Symbiosis Law School, Pune.
During her years of law school she participated in various events. She was awarded
the Advocate S.K. Jain Scholarship for being the topper of B.A.,LL.B. from her batch.

Prior to pursuing her Masters in International Dispute Settlement from Graduate

Institute of International and Development Studies, she served as an associate at the
ADR teams of Bharucha and Partners and Wadia Ghandy & Co.

Soon after the completion of her masters she had the opportunity to work with Prof.
Pierre Tercier and later joined Shearman and Sterling as a legal trainee in their
International Arbitration team.

In this interview we talk about –

 Her years through law school and her growing interest in Arbitration.
 Significance of Post Qualification Experience (PQE) before pursuing Masters.
 Receiving Hans Wilsdorf Scholarship offered by the Swiss-based Hans
Wilsdorf Foundation.
 Studying Masters in International Dispute Settlement from Graduate Institute
of International and Development Studies.
 Working as a trainee in the International Arbitration group at Shearman &
Sterling LLP
 Working as Legal Assistant to Prof. Pierre Tercier

WHAT INCLINED YOU TOWARDS THE FIELD OF LEGAL

EDUCATION?

Looking back, I believe my involvement in extra-curricular activities during school

paved the way for choosing law as a career. I have always been an avid reader and
that inspired my passion for writing and oration. In school, I actively participated in
essay competitions, poetry competitions, debates, Model United Nations,
extempores and just about any event that involved speaking and writing.

When it came to a stage where I had to decide what degree I would pursue after
school, my instinct was to choose a profession which has its core both these
passions of mine, law. I do not have any lawyers in my family or close relations.
However, I was extremely fortunate to have supportive parents who encouraged me
to make this choice, despite the popular belief that law is not a profession meant for
girls.

HOW INSTRUMENTAL WAS SYMBIOSIS LAW SCHOOL IN SHAPING

YOUR LEGAL CAREER. DID YOU HAVE INTEREST IN ARBITRATION
AND DISPUTE RESOLUTION WHILE AT LAW SCHOOL?

My time at Symbiosis Law School set the foundation for my legal career. I have
always maintained that I was lucky to be in a law school that gave me the freedom to
learn, develop skills and explore opportunities, both within and outside the
classroom. I firmly belief that learning cannot be restricted to lessons in classrooms
and my time at Symbiosis is reflective of that. At Symbiosis, I actively took part in
both national and international Moot Court competitions, numerous Model United
Nations, intra-law college sports tournaments, essay competitions and parliamentary
debates. Further, my internships and interactions with practitioners and academics
helped me gain an essential practical understanding of the law. Being awarded the
Advocate S.K. Jain Scholarship for Topper of B.A.,LL.B. was a recognition of this
fact.

My interest in Alternate Dispute Resolution, and Arbitration specifically, began as a

result of curiosity in the second year of my law school. Having heard about it from a
friend, I decided to research further on it and found the concept extremely interesting
and a practicable means of dispute resolution. The benefits of Alternate Dispute
Resolution, i.e. speed, cost-effectiveness and expertise, appealed to my sense of
how the system should be and I decided to gain as much experience and knowledge
as I could in it. Therefore, I pursued a Diploma in Arbitration, Conciliation and
Alternate Dispute Resolution offered by Symbiosis. Also, most of my internships after
that were directed towards alternate dispute resolution. I interned with the arbitration
and dispute resolution teams at Advani & Co., Kachwaha & Partners, Bharucha &
Partners and this cemented my interest for arbitration.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR WORK PROFILE AT WG AND

BHARUCHA.

(Trisha worked in the Dispute Resolution team of Bharucha and Partners and Wadia
Ghandy & Co. before she decided to pursue Masters in International Dispute
Settlement.)
Working as an Associate at both Bharucha and Partners and Wadia Ghandy & Co.
was an important stepping stone in my professional career. I was fortunate to have
guidance and mentorship from the partners at both firms and a collegial set of
colleagues, who made the transition from a student to a working professional
smooth. At both firms, I was involved in high-stake commercial litigation cases and
international and domestic arbitrations.
ACCORDING TO YOU, IS IT BETTER TO PURSUE HIGHER
EDUCATION RIGHT AFTER GRADUATION OR AFTER GAINING SOME
POST QUALIFICATION EXPERIENCE?

It depends on a lot of factors. Pursuing a Master or higher degree is usually a step

towards a professional goal that a person envisages for himself. Thus, a decision to
pursue it is best taken when the person is reasonably certain of his professional
goals or at least what his/her next steps after the Masters will be.

Many of the people who pursue an LL.M. already have work experience before
taking up the course. Gaining prior work experience in the field of law for the person
who wishes to pursue higher studies is advisable – that way the person can be sure
that he/ she wants to continue working/studying in that field of law. Having said that,
there are also several people who are sure of their areas of concentration and take
up higher studies right after graduation, and have done well for themselves.
APART FROM GRADUATE INSTITUTE, WHICH OTHER UNIVERSITIES
OFFER GOOD ARBITRATION COURSES? WHAT MADE YOU CHOOSE
MIDS OVER OTHERS?

The interest among Universities to have a specialised programme dedicated to

Arbitration is relative now but fast picking up. Most Universities offer one or two
courses on Arbitration, which the student can combine with other courses during
their LL.M. Some notable Universities that offer good arbitration courses are
Columbia Law School, Queen Mary University of Law, Georgetown Law School,
Stockholm University and recently Miami School of Law.

The Masters in International Dispute Settlement (MIDS) offered jointly by the

Graduate Institute and University of Geneva is quite unique in that sense. The entire
programme is geared towards giving its student an exposure to various dispute
resolution mechanisms, with a particular focus on International Arbitration. At the
MIDS, courses are offered on both Public and Private International Law, and more
specifically on WTO, ICJ, UNCLOS, Investment Arbitration, International Commercial
Arbitration and Sports Arbitration. As regards International Arbitration, MIDS has
specific courses on international arbitration in specific regions like United States,
European Union, China, Latin America etc and also intensive courses on the
different facets of arbitration like the Arbitration Agreement, New York Convention,
Definition of Investment in Investment Arbitration etc. These courses are taught by
well-known practitioners and academicians in those fields. For example, Professor
Gabrielle Kaufmann-Kohler and Zachary Douglas took courses on commercial and
investment arbitration, Professor Albert van den Berg took a course on New York
Convention, Professor Jan Paulsson took a course on Investment Arbitration and
Professor William Park on Arbitration in the United States. It truly was learning from
the best!

The well-designed programme as well as the location in Geneva, which is home to

numerous international organizations, made the choice to take up the MIDS an
appropriate one.
HAVING BEEN THE RECIPIENT OF THE HANS WILSDORF
SCHOLARSHIP AND RATAN TATA TRAVEL GRANT, TELL US MORE
ABOUT SCHOLARSHIPS FOR INDIANS AT THE MIDS?

The Hans Wilsdorf Scholarship is an incredible opportunity offered by the Swiss-

based Hans Wilsdorf Foundation to allow students pursue graduate courses at the
Graduate Institute. It is a full scholarship and was an essential factor in my being
able to pursue the MIDS. Similarly, the Ratan Tata Travel Grant is offered by the Sir
Ratan Tata Trust to students travelling abroad for post-graduate or doctoral studies.

The MIDS administration encourages applicants from all over the world, and every
year a considerable percentage of the intake is from India. Professors have often
chided that there is an “Indian mafia” at the MIDS! The Hans Wilsdorf Foundation
offers quite a few scholarships to students admitted into the MIDS – in my year at the
MIDS, an estimated 8-10 students had the Hans Wilsdorf Scholarship.

Apart from this, students from India also have the option to apply to other
scholarships, which are not necessarily MIDS-centric. For example, scholarships are
offered by the Sir Ratan Tata Foundation, Aga Khan Foundation, Inlaks etc.
TELL US IN DETAIL ABOUT THE ACADEMIC PROGRAMME AT THE
MIDS. WHAT DIFFERENCES DID YOU FIND IN THE EDUCATION
SYSTEMS OF INDIA AND GENEVA?

To answer the last question first, the education systems in India and Geneva, and
abroad generally, differ greatly.

Pursuing an LL.M. abroad is an act of discipline and perseverance. For starters, the
readings for each class were usually enormous, often going upto 500 pages for a
single class of 5-6 hours. We were told that for one hour spent in class, there would
be readings for atleast two-three hours. This is significantly different from the
approach in Indian law schools. The classroom teaching style differs in that there is
more learning through discussions and debates. The professors pay a lot of attention
to the viewpoints of the students and give inputs from their experiences or
jurisprudence to add to the discussion. To gain from this level of exchange, it was
necessary to be thorough with the prescribed readings.

MIDS, like other foreign LL.M.s, provides mentoring and assistance to its students to
help them adjust and settle into the system. We had a set of amazing tutors who
were always at hand to answer our queries and provide guidance whenever needed.
The administration was extremely friendly and helpful and helped us with everything
from visa to permit to choice of courses to career counselling.

DO YOU THINK KNOWLEDGE OF EUROPEAN LANGUAGES SUCH AS

FRENCH OR SPANISH HELPS IN AREAS RELATED TO PRIVATE OR
PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL LAW?

Most definitely. In International Arbitration, a lot of the case-load originates from Latin
America, Russia or Europe. Plus, some offices of even international firms have a
huge French or Spanish population and prefer persons who speak those languages.
Thus, fluency in one or more European languages is a huge advantage.

AFTER THE MIDS, YOU JOINED WILMERHALE IN LONDON AS A

LEGAL INTERN IN THEIR INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION
TEAM. TELL OUR READERS ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE.

Anyone who has ever studied or practiced arbitration knows Gary Born. The fact that
he leads the International Arbitration practice at WilmerHale made the choice of firm
easy for me.

WilmerHale has a straightforward application process for its internship programme.

Once the application makes it past the first round, there is an interview with the
Internship Committee. Successful candidates are then invited to intern with them for
three months.

WilmerHale has a wide portfolio of International Arbitration and international law

cases, including human rights cases. At any point of time, they are handling
arbitrations seated around the world and are also pro bono representing victims of
human right violations. The team at WilmerHale is young, energetic and welcoming. I
was fortunate enough to assist with both their arbitrations and a human rights case in
the African Court on Human and Peoples’ Rights.

YOU HAVE RECENTLY JOINED AS A TRAINEE IN THE

INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION GROUP AT SHEARMAN & STERLING
LLP– TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE.

Shearman & Sterling is a well-renown practice in International Arbitration and is

touted to have one of the best portfolios of cases, both in international commercial
arbitration and investment arbitration. Their International Arbitration practice in Paris
office is headed by Emmanuel Gaillard, a stalwart in the field.

As a result, my experience so far has been extremely interesting and gratifying. I

have been working on energy arbitrations and investment arbitrations and enjoying
every bit of it. Of course, it requires a lot of hard work and long hours, but it is all
completely worth it.

The application process at Shearman & Sterling is quite comprehensive – once the
application is selected, there are 2 rounds of interviews – the first one is usually
taken by Associates along with a Counsel, and the second one is taken by a Partner.
YOU ALSO SERVED AS LEGAL ASSISTANT TO PROFESSOR PIERRE
TERCIER. DO YOU THINK IT IS BETTER TO WORK WITH AN
ARBITRATOR RATHER THAN AN ADR FIRM? TELL US YOUR
EXPERIENCE.

I consider myself extremely lucky to have had the opportunity to work with Professor
Pierre Tercier. Professor Tercier is considered one of the top arbitrators in the world
and consequently, sits as arbitrator in some of the most interesting investment
arbitrations and international commercial arbitrations.

Working with an arbitrator is a different experience than working with a law firm. As
Legal Assistant to Professor Tercier, I gained valuable insight into the functioning of
an arbitral tribunal – a hitherto unknown process to me. As a counsel, it is one’s duty
to assist the tribunal navigate the case and come to a decision. Watching a tribunal
work is like peeking behind the curtains and learning how best to do this.

I do not have a preference of working with an arbitrator over a counsel practice, or

vice versa. Both involve equally interesting and exciting work and maybe at this
stage of my career, I look forward to gaining more experience in both.
LASTLY, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE FOR OUR
READERS?

If you have a passion and do not mind facing a few challenges, you can get what you
want. Also, do not hesitate to reach out to people you will be surprised how often
they go out of their way to help you.

Share the knowledge!

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 
Advocate Maximus: sign up for the global Arb-Med competition

1 COMMENT

ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Sidhartha Peddinti, Startup Lawyer &

Business Consultant at GlobalQuest
Ventures LLC, on being a business
lawyer and strategy adviser

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 16, 2015

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Sidhartha Peddinti graduated in Law from University of London through an unique

programme through London School of Economics, in 2011. A graduate of Business
& Economics from University of Toronto, he is currently a Startup Lawyer & Business
Consultant at GlobalQuest Ventures LLC.

He started working in the Immigration Law Offices of RAK at USA. Thereafter he

went on to become partner at California Law Services where he handled immigration
and bankruptcy work. He describes himself to be a lawyer with an entrepreneurial
mindset.

In this interview he talks about:

 His choice to become a lawyer even after specialising in economics;

 The options for a lawyer to become an entrepreneur;
 How he joined LSE and his experience at the institution; and
 His journey as an entrepreneur.

TELL US ABOUT YOURSELF. SINCE WHEN ARE YOU LIVING IN US?

WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR PRIMARY EDUCATION FROM?

I am a real international citizen, in that I was born in Dubai, raised all over the Middle
East, then spent three years during middle school at an international boarding school
called Rishi Valley in India, moved to Toronto with my family in high school, obtained
a bachelors degree from Toronto, a law degree from London, and then another
advanced law degree from Los Angeles. So, my varied experiences and vastly
different background has shaped my mentality, my attitudes, and my interests to be
a hybrid of an Indo-Canadian-Middle Eastern, rounded up with an outdoor
Californian lifestyle. I have been in the US since 2011, and have been an attorney
since the past year and a half, i.e. January 2014.

YOU DID YOUR BACHELORS IN BUSINESS & ECONOMICS FROM

THE PRESTIGIOUS UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO, TELL US SOMETHING
ABOUT THE COURSE, THE SCHOOL AND WHY YOU CHOOSE
BUSINESS & ECONOMICS?

A pivotal moment shaped the way I thought about business and my career was in
high school. I read a book called ‘Rich Dad – Poor Dad’ which I bought at a garage
sale for $5. It explained the difference between (what the author referred to as the 4
quadrants) employees and self employed persons who fall in quadrants one and two,
business owners and investors fell into 3 and 4. 1 & 2 work for their money – they
don’t show up to work – they don’t get paid (even most lawyers fall in here – no
client, no money). 3 and 4 found a way to be involved in multiple avenues and still
accumulate wealth, while they are busy doing other things with their time or
managing multiple assets they own.

I wanted to understand more about how I could end up in the sectors 3 and 4 –
where I can get my money to work for me, a state where, through my acquired and
vested interests in companies, homes, stocks, and other assets, I could receive
multiple sources of income. This was the start of my interest into economics, and
business – I simply had to understand the way different business models worked,
how the market worked, and how to operate a business. After getting accepted into
the best University of Toronto – the number 1 University in Canada, it was a real no-
brainer that I had to pick this school. It was over 175 years old, and in the top 25 best
universities in the world. The courses were very challenging, but it was rewarding to
complete the degree and understand how market cycles worked, and how each
industry was affected by these cycles.
A DEGREE IN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS IS OFTEN ENOUGH TO
LAND ANYONE LUCRATIVE JOB AT A BIG COMPANY. WHY DID YOU
CHOOSE TO DO RESTRUCTURING THROUGH CAIRP, AND THEN
CHOOSE LAW AFTER THAT, RATHER THAN ACCOUNTING,
FINANCE, INVESTMENTS – THE NATURAL COURSE FOR BUSINESS
MAJORS?

Good question. Following from the previous question, after I understood the way the
different models worked, I knew that there was a recession that was going to affect
North America, atleast thats what our Economics Professors were predicting around
2005/2006. I researched this theory and found the bubble was about to burst since
everyone had their credit over-extended. Virtually all my friends ended up choosing a
big firm for either accounting, audit, strategy, or some for an MBA. I wanted to prove
my theory of the recession and be involved in that game of using the market to my
advantage I hunted for a boutique law firm that specialized in Bankruptcy law and
restructuring law, and choose to join their practice as an Estate Administrator – a job
that gave me a brief overview of the process involved. The pay was less than half of
what my friends were accepting immediately after graduating, but almost
immediately after joining the firm, I started a course, sponsored by the lawyer, in
Bankruptcy & Restructuring law & consulting, through the association that monitored
Restructuring Professionals in Canada called CAIRP – Canadian Association of
Insolvency & Restructuring Professionals. I received my certification to consult in a
very short time since I was lucky to finish all my courses and pass the state exam in
one sitting. As soon I completed all my practical training, within 6 months of initially
joining this industry, I started a firm called Clear Debt Solutions. From 2007 – 2012, I
had over 1000 cases that I personally handled, close to 500 being business
bankruptcies. The firm still exists and is controlled by partners who I hired when I
joined law school in 2009.
YOU DID YOUR LAW FROM LONDON SCOOL OF ECONOMICS,
THROUGH THE INTERNATIONAL LAW PROGRAM FROM UNIVERSITY
OF LONDON FROM 2009-2011. TELL US ABOUT YOUR TIME THERE,
AND WHY YOU CHOOSE THAT PROGRAM OVER CANADIAN OR US
SCHOOLS?

After being exposed to many lawyers in my restructuring practice, I wanted to add

law school to complete my quest to understand more about business and the legality
of doing business. I started law school from the UK, rather than in North America,
because I wanted to have a unique edge to my portfolio, that separates me from the
normal law applicant. I choose the International Law Program specifically, because it
was flexible in its timings, its lectures delivery methods, and its study methodology.
During these years, my consulting firm was booming, as the recession got worse, my
revenue got better, and by mid-2010, I operated 5 locations throughout Toronto. I
had a partner, few employees and hundreds of clients every year. I could not leave
all this to complete a full time law program, which most Canadian law schools offered
(Only 8 in Canada by the way), and which was also required by Immigration for me
to attend law school in the US.

By choosing to study in an International Program, based out of London, yet not being
required to physically be present one hundred percent of the time, allowed me to
work and study simultaneously – something that enhanced my understanding of the
subject matter, while being able to practically utilize and gain ‘lawyerly skills’ through
my practice in Toronto. Sure, it was hectic, since I flew back and forth, balancing
school and work in two continents. I simply could not let either of them go. Of course,
the fact that it was University of London, one of the best schools in world had a lot to
do with it, and when they offered me an entire law degree in under $20,000 (plus still
able to work) compared to $150,000 in the US – I could not pass up that offer, and in
the end did not rack up a single dollar of student debt as compared to an average
law student who has over $150k debt in the US.

DID YOU INTERACT WITH INDIAN STUDENTS THERE, GIVEN THAT

UK LAW SCHOOLS ARE A POPULAR CHOICE AMONG INDIAN LAW
STUDENTS?

I met some incredible students who were also part of the international program. In
fact, it allowed me to network with students from almost 50 countries directly through
a portal system, something I checked out before I started the program, and many of
those people are still my close friends to this day, in Canada, India, Pakistan, and
even from Brasil and other countries. The pass rate at the International Law Program
was roughly 25% after the 3rd year, so unfortunately many of the Indian students I
met did not manage to complete the program, or moved on from law into other
areas.

WITH YOUR LLM FROM SOUTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY, USA, YOU

HAVE RECEIVED LEGAL TRAINING FROM THREE COUNTRIES. IN
WHAT WAYS HAS THIS VERSATILE ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT
HELPED YOU?
To remain true to my original quest of being in quadrant 3 and 4 – business owner
and an investor, I knew that the opportunity for this dream truly existed in the US,
compared to Canada or the UK (from a global standpoint). So, while finishing law
school from London in 2010, I applied to LLM programs all over Canada and the US
for the 2011 Fall start session. I knew that the market was slowly starting to pick up
now, and in a few years the market would be in the re-building stages again. I
wanted to be in the center of this movement, and by being in California – the world’s
hub for innovation and technology, I could not go wrong being a lawyer and
entrepreneur in California. I was lucky enough to be accepted into all the schools I
applied to, and they even allowed me to start the LLM program before my final
grades were released from University of London. It was a miracle, since the
administrators office at Southwestern made this exception for the first time for a
foreign student in over 100 years. In two weeks of starting, I received my grades,
and another miracle happened where I was in the 15% of students who passed all
the courses that year, thus getting my degree after I had already started working
towards a LLM degree.

I picked Southwestern in Los Angeles because it was a school that had a flexible
course options, and one that allowed me to complete the courses that I wanted to
take. My eventual strategy was to attempt the dreadful California bar exam with 15%
pass rate for foreign lawyers, and I knew I had to be prepared for it, since I am
competing with local students with 3 years or legal training, compared to only 1 year
for me.
YOU NEVER TOOK A JOB AT BIGLAW WHILE YOU DO HAVE AN
IMPRESSIVE LAWYERLY PROFILE. WHY SO?

My interests, skills, and passion lies in entrepreneurship. I choose to do law to

become a lawyer, but more importantly to become a good businessman. I believe
that it has allowed me to think in a manner that is different from the lay person. I did
not take up any positions at large firms because I believed that I have a unique skill
set that would be wasted at a large firm, doing routine work, albeit they pay a lot for
it. Many of my friends work a large firms, and making large paychecks, but the very
thought of a desk job never appealed to me, and I have rejected some very lucrative
offers in the last year, since I prefer to be out and about, running around making
things happen. I am a very high energy individual who needs to constantly be in
motion, and although for some of my friends BIGLAW has worked out great, it was
never my cup of tea.

THE CALIFORNIA BAR IS SAID TO BE THE HARDEST LAW EXAM IN

NORTH AMERICA WITH LESS THAN 15% PASS RATES FOR
FOREIGN TRAINED LAWYERS OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS. EXPLAIN
WHY YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS CRAZY STEP, GIVEN THESE
STATISTICS?

I knew the statistics and I knew the high chances of failure. No one thought I could
make this happen, since there are horror stories all over the web of people failing the
California Bar 5 or 6 times. I thoroughly researched about every course I was
expected to take, and by carefully selecting only Bar Courses, and some
international law (my interest) courses in my LL.M, I was able to complete all core
courses required by Californian law students that were going to be tested on the Bar.
This allowed me to get the local training I needed for those courses, plus having
international exposure. I nevertheless decided to take the bar and give it a shot, and
luckily I was among the 22% of LL.M students that passed the Bar in my round of the
California Bar Exam for July 2013.

BEFORE WE GO INTO YOUR ENTREPRENEURSHIP VENTURES, TELL

US ABOUT YOUR LEGAL CONSULTANCY WORK. HOW DID YOU
ESTABLISH SUCH A VIBRANT CONSULTANCY PRACTICE?

In my quest to be in quadrant 3 and 4, I engraved in my personal charter that I would

understand different business models, so that I would eventually have various
companies in my own portfolio. This is still my mission, and every time I meet an
entrepreneur in a different industry, one unknown to me, I gladly take on the case to
understand the industry better.

I had this mentality since I started my first business, and I have enjoyed every
business I have consulted with. Thus, my present consulting practice is one that can
cater to clients from many industries, and clients from all stages of the business
cycle. I now understand how these different models work, and am easily able to put
myself in the shoes of my client, the entrepreneur, and advice, strategize, and
legalize – all in one chain of thought. It is a lot of work, since I spend the time to
research about different industries, but I suppose I am hooked to it. This has left me
at the crossroads of law and entrepreneur.

HOW IS CANADA OR US AS A CAREER CHOICE FOR INDIAN LAW

STUDENTS?

Canada is a great place for Indian lawyers – especially those in the midst of their
careers. The process of qualification and the exams are easier, with almost a 80%
pass rate. In my opinion, it is great for an entrepreneurial lawyer, especially one who
wants to serve the Indian community – especially in Criminal, Real Estate, or
Divorces. Litigation is primarily taken up by local law students – Indian or otherwise,
and largely dominated by those who received local training.

US is a different beast altogether. The laws are also similar to British, but the legal
ecosystem is very different. The bar is tougher, longer, and more intense. There are
a lot of restrictions and qualifications the applicant has to go through. That said, a US
lawyer is valued globally, and opens far more international doors than I would had as
a Canadian lawyer in the international and startup up space. There are a lot of jobs
in the US, especially for litigators, since the laws are geared towards solving
grievances in court. There is also a lot more work for lawyers in the US, in terms of
the types of law, the types of cases, and the truly unique legal system they have
created here (I find a vast contrast from the Canadian and British legal culture). So,
be ready to get comfortable knowing about the local culture, if you want to be a
successful American lawyer in the US.

WHY DID YOU MAKE THE SHIFT FROM CANADA TO THE US?
My move was primarily because of two reasons: (i) large opportunity to be involved
in the upswing of the economy in terms of products, startups, and opportunities; (ii)
great weather compared to the bitter Canadian winters.

I have always wanted to be involved in the globalization of economies, and being in

California was more suited to my needs than to accomplish that from Toronto.
However, since I have a consulting practice in Toronto, I still fly there often and work
there.

IN THE US YOU STARTED WORKING AT IMMIGRATION LAW

OFFICES OF THE RAK. HOW IS THE WORK CULTURE THERE AND
DID THE LOCAL REFERENCE HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THE
CULTURE BETTER?

In my attempt to find out the local work culture and integrate into local legal scene, I
decided to work for a solo lawyer, plus he knew immigration laws, so I did not really
have to pay a hefty price for an immigration lawyer to figure out my visa. To
understand immigration laws in the US is very important, it is the most complex
system in the world, and a simple violation can be disastrous. I figured by working for
an Immigration lawyer, I could hit three birds with one stone – (a) local work
experience, training, and integration; (b) learning about immigration laws; and (c) did
not have to pay for an immigration lawyer since he mentored me to fill my own
paperwork which I wanted to get a grip on anyway.

YOU WERE A PARTNER CALIFORNIA LAW SERVICES AND WORKED

THERE FOR A YEAR. WHERE ARE YOU CURRENTLY WORKING,
WHAT KIND OF WORK DO YOU DO THERE?
I worked as an Immigration and Bankruptcy lawyer with my previous employer, RAK,
turned partner at the new firm. We mainly handled immigration and bankruptcy work,
both which were areas I had some comfort with. I found both areas to be very
competitive, and faced fierce competition. Meanwhile, my personal interests in
entrepreneurship were not being fulfilled, so post my return from India last December
to explore the startup scene, I joined as a partner at a boutique firm which was
focused on law, entrepreneurship and startups.

I currently work as a partner at GlobeQuest Ventures, LLC – as the name indicates,

we travel the world looking for startups and companies to help them in their
entrepreneurial journeys – legally, strategically, and practically. I absolutely love it –
and finally have been able to combine my passion of law and entrepreneurship in
one.

PLEASE TELL OUR READERS SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR

ENTREPRENEURSHIP JOURNEY, AND HOW YOU LIVED YOUR 20’S
WORKING AND STUDYING?

As I mentioned earlier, reading that book changed my career path. I was getting the
education and theory side of it, but I also wanted to work on the practical side of it. I
started my first business as soon as I finished the book in high school, aged around
18 or so. I have never looked back, and have been fortunate enough to have made
that step at such an early age. I had some sacrifices along the way, but I see those
as opportunity costs, and have not regretted any missed vacations, or parties
(missed many of them). I made sure to have a very vibrant social when I could and
led an active lifestyle to compensate from the stress from my business and school.
Sports was my way of balancing myself, and I enjoyed playing 5 different competitive
sports in my 20’s.
HOW MANY COMPANIES IN TOTAL HAVE YOU FOUNDED?

I have been fortunate to be part of 8 different companies to date. I have recently

acquired equity portions in 3 new companies, and hope to be part of another 100
companies in the next 20 years or so.

HOW DO YOU DEFINE YOURSELF, AS A LAWYER OR AS AN

ENTREPRENEUR?

A lawyer with an entrepreneurial mindset. My dream of combining both my passions

has led to work in a dual capacity – working as a lawyer when needed, or as a
founder, partner, strategic advisor, or in-house lawyer. I value flexibility and
adaptability greatly, and my past experiences that allowed me to transition into role
with relative ease.

TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR LATEST STARTUP VENTURE.

Through GlobalQuest Ventures, LLC, my recent clients have primarily been
disruptive technologies that are in the mobile app space. One is a disruptive
journalism app, another is a Uber for private planes, and another is a revolutionary
dating site for a selected and elite customer.

Another venture I started is called LLMbartutoring.com, a tutoring school that is

dedicated to helping foreign trained lawyers integrate into the California system by
assisting in local cultural transition, job training, course assistance, Application help
and California Bar Exam training. This information can also be found in my personal
ventures section on my webpage.

On the other side, I started working on some revolutionary product lines with some
very famous scientists, who specialize in holistic medical formulations. I have
approached some celebrities and famous television personalities to team up with us,
and can possibly secure a very large deal in the next 2 months that can help us
potentially move millions of units every year. That would satisfy my itch to be a co-
founder in a truly non-legal business – a turmeric infused skin care line, scientifically
backed and tested by the foremost expert in turmeric infusions.

YOUR WEBSITE SIDHARTHAPEDDINTI.COM SEEMS TO BE

OFFERING A COMPLETE ECOSYSTEM OF SERVICE FOR STARTUPS.
HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO THAT?
By finding a way to incorporate all my interests in one way through GlobalQuest
Ventures, LLC, I decided to put all my thoughts on one site, that describes me as a
person, as a lawyer, an entrepreneur and eventually as an investor (with my
portfolio). Thank you for mentioning my page, since I built that page myself in less
than a day. I have no previous computer training, programming or coding or any
other backend experience, but I knew that by watching the right videos and reading
the right articles, I could do it myself. I have since created 5 webpages, and even got
some people asking me for a referral for the company who created my site. In short,
I want to prove and inspire people to understand that anything can be done, with the
right mindset, and if a non-tech person like myself can make wesites in a day, others
can live their dreams and make it happen over night as well. That was the real
motivation for the site – inspiring people to live their dreams by quitting their boring
jobs as a first step.

ARE YOU ALSO WORKING WITH ANY INDIAN COMPANIES WHO ARE
LOOKING TO EXPAND INTERNATIONALLY?

I have started to form many strategic partnerships with corporate lawyers, startups
consultants, and other individuals who are involved in the Indian startup scene. I am
eager to enter the Indian startup space and help take those companies international
– US, Canada or other countries. We look to form strategic alliances, joint ventures,
mergers, acquisitions, and even where lucky, take it public.

I am looking to team up with key individuals in India who can help me in this quest.
That is the reason my company is called GlobalQuest Ventures, LLC – where law
meets entreprenrurship and strategy.

WHAT ADVISE WILL YOU GIVE TO YOUNG LAWYERS WHO WANT TO

BECOME AN ENTREPRENEUR?

I find the practice of law requires a different set of entrepreneurial skills than a mobile
app company or a revolutionary product. Being part of an elite subset of society, one
that is highly regulated and controlled (worldwide), lawyers have to follow certain
protocols that other entrepreneurs may not necessarily face, especially relating to
contacting potential clients, or advertising standards, or types of deals that one can
take one.
Thus, solo lawyers who want to hang their own shingles should think like a lawyer
first, and only after taking all the protective measures, one should engage in their
targeted marketing campaigns. So, it’s a unique type of an entrepreneur who should
expect 3-5 years, at a minimum, to start realizing the resulting they imagine. I know a
lot of lawyers, and virtually every single highly successful lawyer that I know, has
been practicing for at least 5 years. So, there is no way to get around patience.

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ACADEMICS, RESEARCHERS & INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATIONS

Gitanjali Ghosh, Assistant Professor,

NLU, Assam, on LLM at NLSIU,
academics and teaching as a career

ByTeam Research
Posted on August 11, 2015

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Gitanjali Ghosh graduated from North Eastern Hill University (NEHU), Shillong
(2013). In law school she has interned with NHRC and was adjudged as the best
Mooter at Henry Dunant Moot Court Competition. In 2014, Gitanjali completed her
LL.M from NLSIU, Bangalore and has joined NLU-Assam as faculty. Along with
teaching, Gitanjali is pursuing her Ph.D from NLSIU.

In this interview she talks about:

 Law school experience at NEHU.

 LL.M from NLSIU, Bangalore.
 Internships, mooting and her dream to opt teaching as a career.

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF? TELL US A BIT ABOUT

YOUR PRE-COLLEGE YEARS. WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO STUDY
LAW?

I hail from a town called Mangaldoi in the state of Assam. I finished my schooling
from Don Bosco High School in my two and +2 from Cotton College in Guwahati. I
went on to pursue B.A. LL.B. (Hons) from NEHU, Shillong and LL.M. from NLSIU,
Bengaluru. Currently, I am also registered as a Ph.D. Scholar at NLSIU.
Professionally speaking, I would like to introduce myself as an Assistant Professor of
Law at the National Law University, Assam where I am also associated with the
Centre for Child Rights. I am a very simple, family loving and God-fearing person. I
have my fair share of undesirable traits but in all I try to be a good person. I was
good at academics right since my ABCD days but I thoroughly enjoyed my school
days, despite all the pressure of doing well in Board exams to getting into whatever it
was that I wished to pursue, thanks to my friends. I was not great at sports but I did
pretty well at cultural events.

Studying law, I would say, must be due to pure genetics (my parents are lawyers).
On a serious note, I always wanted to be a teacher, never a lawyer or a judge or
anything else for that matter.As I grew up, my inclination towards pursuing law
followed by a career in academics was but natural. Honestly, there is no particular
thing that I can pinpoint as my motivation.

HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR TIME AT NEHU? TELL US

ABOUT THE ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT AND FACULTY AT THE LAW
DEPARTMENT OF THE UNIVERSITY.

I had a wonderful time at NEHU as well as the city it is situated in i.e. Shillong. You
have to be there to understand why. It is truly the ‘Scotland of the East’. We were the
fourth batch to be enrolled in the Department of Law, NEHU and in many ways, we
were better off than our seniors in terms of infrastructure, hostels, teachers, library
etc. However, we had our fair share of difficulties as well. The academic environment
at NEHU is not as hectic as we see at law schools but a lot of effort is put into by a
majority of the faculty members in ensuring that the students learn law and are clear
with the basic concepts.

DID YOU TAKE PART IN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES? HOW

IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK THAT EXTRA-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES
ARE TO A LAW STUDENT?

I believe, in today’s world, where recruitment is largely based on one’s curriculum

vitae, extracurricular activities are very important for any student. Apart from this, as
the saying goes, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy (law-related
extracurricular activities are everything but play). Also, extracurricular activities help
one in gaining confidence as well as exposure.

During my preliminary years, I did not have any information about the scope
available to a law student, which readily resulted in my lack of inclination towards
these activities. Hence, I spent a lot of time on my academic endeavours. My primary
objective was to do well in my studies (I was the gold medallist of my batch) and
most importantly, learn the basics of as many papers as I could and be thorough with
the papers I wished to pursue further (it is not possible to learn every paper
thoroughly). However, with the coming of Internet into my life or should I say with the
learning of its proper use, things changed (it was difficult to get even phone signals
during my initial years at NEHU). I don’t have a long list of activities that I
participated in but I participated in the Henry Dunant Memorial Moot Court
Competition where I was adjudged the ‘Best Advocate’ and our team was ranked
5th (a big thanks to our teacher who guided us and my dear teammates).

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT EXCELLENT CGPA IS ABSOLUTELY

NECESSARY FOR SUCCESS?

It may not be absolutely necessary but its importance cannot be negated at the
same time. A decent CGPA gives the much-needed boost to those students who
may not be the toppers of their class but do well in other extracurricular activities.

WHAT WERE YOUR AREAS OF INTEREST DURING YOUR

GRADUATION? HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DEVELOPING EXPERTISE
AND KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS?

International law and human rights are two areas for which I have nurtured great
interest ever since I was pursuing B.A. LL.B. (Hons.). I went on to pursue LL.M. in
Human Rights and currently, I am engaged with the teaching of these subjects as
well. The only way of developing your knowledge and expertise in any subject is to
simply read, read and read.

DID YOU DO ANY INTERNSHIP DURING YOUR GRADUATION? DID

YOU RECEIVE ANY ASSISTANCE FROM YOUR COLLEGE?

Apart from the regular internships with advocates, I interned with the National
Human Rights Commission, New Delhi where I won the Best Intern prize.It was a
great experience. Department of Law, NEHU did not have any policy to assist
students with their internships but the faculty members were kind enough to right
letters of recommendation and help in any other manner within their power.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE SUPPOSED ‘ELITE’ TAG

ATTACHED TO CERTAIN LAW SCHOOLS? DO YOU BELIEVE
BRANDING OF COLLEGE IS SOMETHING THAT’S VERY RELEVANT/
IMPORTANT AT ANY STAGE IN A LAW STUDENT’S CAREER?

I don’t think ‘elite’ is the right word to describe these institutions because they were
not born elite. Both the faculty and the students of these institutions have made
several efforts to bring name and fame to these institutions.

Given the scenario in today’s time, the brand name of one’s college has indeed
attained a position of relevance in a student’s career. While students from renowned
colleges are automatically presumed to be good at what they do, students from the
not so renowned colleges have to put in a lot of effort to be able to create such
presumption in their favour.
WHEN AND HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO PURSUE MASTERS? WAS IT A
PROFESSIONAL REQUIREMENT OR AN ENDEAVOUR OUT OF
ACADEMIC INTERESTS?

I had decided to do pursue Masters even before I joined Bachelors as I had made up
my mind at a very young age to become a teacher, although I was not very sure of
the subject. When I joined B.A. LL.B., it was only a question of time before I went
ahead with Masters towards the fulfillment of my long cherished aim of becoming a
teacher. You can call it a professional choice made on the basis of my academic
interests.

YOU HAVE DONE YOUR LL.M. FROM NLSIU, BANGALORE. CAN YOU
PLEASE SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCE AT NLSIU? HOW WILL YOU
COMPARE THE ENVIRONMENT AT NLSIU WITH THAT OF NEHU?

I met some of the finest teachers, students and made some friends for life at
NLSIU.Also, NLSIU gave me my first job as a Researcher at the Centre for Women
and the Law. One year LL.M. was undoubtedly hectic and it gets over even before
you think it has started but it was,although draining at times, an enriching
experience. I am still associated with NLSIU as a Ph.D. Scholar.

Asking me to compare the pedagogy of NLSIU and NEHU are akin to asking
someone to differentiate between their two eyes as both are my alma mater. It may
not be actually fair to compare the two given the fact that they are majorly different
from each other and represent two different kinds of institutions i.e. one being a
National Law School and the other a traditional university.

LOOKING BACK, HOW SIGNIFICANT DO YOU THINK THAT YOUR

LEGAL EDUCATION WAS? WHEN DID YOU HAPPEN TO
EXPERIENCE THE LEARNING CURVE?

Well, I am still a student of law but the legal education I have pursued until now has
been quite fruitful in terms of both learning as well as career. However, the main
significance of my legal education lies in the fact that I have not lost my interest in it
and indeed, have found areas of law, which I am quite interested in pursuing further.
Further, with my Ph.D. thesis, I wish to contribute to the largely unexplored field of
tribal customary laws and with my teaching, I wish to help students to not only learn
but also to retain their interest in learning law.

I really cannot pinpoint a certain point of time or situation when I experienced the
learning curve. It has been a continuous process, I believe right since I started
studying law.

WHEN DID YOU EXACTLY DECIDE TO TAKE UP TEACHING AS YOUR

PROFESSION? HAS IT BECOME EASIER OR MORE DIFFICULT FOR
YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE PSYCHE OF YOUNG STUDENTS IN THIS
PROCESS OF TEACHING?

As I have already said, I always wanted to become a teacher. I cannot recall the
exact time I made this decision but as far as I remember, I have always considered
teaching as my profession and nothing else. Given the fact that I was myself a
student not two months back and that most of my students are my brothers’ age, it
has been very easy for me to understand the psyche of my students.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH REGARD TO

YOUR FIRST YEAR OF WORK AS A PHD SCHOLAR AT NLSIU? WHAT
KIND OF RESEARCHES YOU WERE ENTRUSTED WITH?

Well it has not been a year since I registered for Ph.D. at NLSIU but in this period of
time, I have had an enriching experience in my many roles as a Research Scholar, a
Teaching Assistant as well as a Researcher at the Centre for Women and the Law at
NLSIU. Also, given the fact that I was the youngest in the class, I learnt a lot from my
fellow scholars during our course work.

As a Research Scholar, the only research one is required to do is on the topic

chosen for writing the thesis. However, the Course work requires one to study
Research Methodology and Computer Applications as well.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE REQUISITE SOFT SKILLS WHICH ARE

ESSENTIAL FOR A YOUNG TEACHER TO BUILD A SUCCESSFUL
CAREER?

Apart from a thorough knowledge of the subject that one is entrusted to teach, being
humble and humane towards one’s students is of utmost importance. A teacher
should always give due regard to the fact that she/he was also once a student and
no matter how many years pass, there are certain issues which are common to the
students at all times and those need to be addressed humbly and patiently.

DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN

STUDENTS OF ‘ELITE’ LAW SCHOOLS AND STUDENTS FROM
OTHER LAW COLLEGES AND TRADITIONAL UNIVERSITIES?

Students are same everywhere but the opportunities available to them make all the
difference. I have studied at an elite law school and also at a traditional university. I
do not know about others but I could definitely perceive a change in my life. While at
NEHU, I had to tell people what NEHU is (That’s ok) but where is NEHU (Shillong?
Where’s that? This was frustrating. Geography and G.K. are probably not well taught
these days at school). However, these questions disappeared with NLSIU (what a
relief). On a more serious note, there is a common misconception among students
from traditional universities that law school students are better than them (I too had
this misconception) and even among law school students whose law schools are not
ranked higher in the law school rank lists and owing to this misconception, they
suffer from lack of confidence. In short, opportunities and confidence are the two
major differences.

WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THE FUTURE OF INDIAN LEGAL

EDUCATION? HOW WOULD YOU SUGGEST THAT A LAW STUDENT
MANAGES TO STAY AHEAD?

Indian legal education has a bright future ahead but sadly, for only those who can
afford the top-most institutions. There are many a good students who will loose a lot
owing to this unfortunate situation but that does not mean that they should be
discouraged from taking up law. CLAT is not the only way to success although it
might seem to be the easiest.

Going by my own experience, a law student should be informed and thanks to the
technological advances, she/he no more requires the college notice board for this
purpose. Information is power.

IF YOU COULD LIST OUT 3 ACTIVITIES WHICH ON A SCALE OF

PRIORITY, SHOULD BE AT THE TOP IN ANY LAW STUDENT’S
SCHOOL-LIFE, WHAT WOULD THOSE BE?

Make friends for life (it has nothing to do with law but will help you survive law school
and life)

Concentrate on Academics

Writing research papers and extracurricular (as per one’s interest and capability)

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO YOUNG LAW STUDENTS? HOW

DO YOU THINK THAT THEY SHOULD APPROACH THEIR CAREER?

Have a lot of fun while at law school but take care not to jeopardize your academic
and extracurricular interests in the process. As clichéd as it may sound, but, sincerity
and hard work are the essential requisites for an amazing career (a bit of good luck
as well).

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Jaya Kumar, Business Development

Manager, J. Sagar Associates, on an
unique work experience of
Marketing+Law

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 8, 2015
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Jaya Kumar started out as a graduate of English Honours from Sophia College,
Mumbai, then moving on to pursue a three-year law from G. J. Advani Law College,
Mumbai, from 2005-2008. She decided to take an unconventional path of choosing
Marketing over being a legal Associate, by first working with Rainmaker, then
Trilegal, further moving on to I&S Associates, a corporate-commercial Indian law
firm. She has now been working as a Business Development (BD) – Manager at J.
Sagar Associates (JSA) since 2014.

In this interview, she tells us about:

 The experience of interning throughout the last two years of law college;
 The reason behind choosing the managerial aspects of law over the more
traditional ones of corporate law or litigation;
 The experience of having worked for such different kind of firms, along with
the different work profile she dealt with for each;
 Her work as a Business Development Manager.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR

READERS WHO ARE YOUNG LAWYERS AND LAW STUDENTS?

I would call myself a lawyer by qualification, currently working as Business

Development (BD) – Manager at J. Sagar Associates (JSA). I do understand law, but
my interest is more on the marketing side of law. I have completed my English
Majors from Sophia College, Mumbai, then proceeding to pursue a three-year law
from G. J. Advani Law College, Mumbai.
I started my career with Rainmaker, followed by Trilegal, then a stint at I&S
Associates, and now at JSA.

WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO STUDY LAW AFTER COMPLETING YOUR

ENGLISH HONOURS?

I wanted to be a journalist, but as things planned out, I never got accepted in any
journalism college, haha! My father kept telling me to opt for law, but I nevertheless
reserved it as a backup plan. Thus I didn’t bother to make any serious efforts to
apply in all the law colleges. I got accepted in G.J. Advani, and also since I am the
third generation lawyer in the family, I opted for law as a career. However, I had no
idea about the BD aspect of law. My internship at Rainmaker helped me to
understand the details of marketing/ BD in the legal industry. It was a new concept
for me, and it sounded different and interesting.

YOU ARE A GRADUATE OF THE 3 YEARS LL.B COURSE FROM G. J.

ADVANI LAW COLLEGE. PLEASE TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR
LAW SCHOOL DAYS. WHAT KIND OF INTERNSHIPS DID YOU DO?

I was doing two internships simultaneously during the law college days (starting from
the second year), one with a senior lawyer, Ms. Neelofar Akhtar at a Family Court,
and the second one with Rainmaker, founded and co-founded by Mr. Sachin Malhan,
Mr. Bhavin Patel and Mr. Ritvik Lukose, and they had just started developing
products for the legal industry. My college timings were from 6: 30 am till 11: 30 am. I
used to then go to the Family Court till 3: 00 pm, and thereafter to Rainmaker. I was
trying to absorb as much as I could, in those two years.
WHAT WERE YOUR AREAS OF INTEREST DURING YOUR
GRADUATION? HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DEVELOPING EXPERTISE
AND KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS?

As I mentioned earlier about my two internships, I was most interested in practical

knowledge. Law for me was vast and strange till the first year, but by the second
year, it started making sense in terms of both the theory and the marketing bit of the
industry, because of the internships.

DID YOU FIND THAT YOUR LAW SCHOOL EDUCATION HAD

PREPARED YOU SUFFICIENTLY FOR THE MANY TASKS YOU WERE
REQUIRED TO EXECUTE DURING YOUR INTERNSHIPS AND LATER
AT YOUR JOB?

A law college only teaches you the theory part of the law, and not the aspect of
marketing yourself or the firm, but I took it as a new curve in my growth, and learnt
the unusual. Also, because I chose a different stream of work in the legal fraternity, I
had more need of the practical aspect of the field of law, rather than the theory.
Ironically, I never interned in any law firm, but I learnt on the job with Vahura,
Trilegal, I&S Associates, and now JSA.

RIGHT AFTER GRADUATION, YOU JOINED RAINMAKER AS AN

ASSOCIATE IN THEIR SALES AND MARKETING DEPARTMENT.
WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO CHOOSE THE FIELD OF MARKETING?
HOW DID YOU SECURE YOUR APPOINTMENT AT RAINMAKER?

I applied directly to Rainmaker for an internship, and it all started from there. By my
second year of college, I realised that if I put in more efforts, I can be a good
marketing professional. After my internship, I decided to join Rainmaker as an
employee, and started handling the Sales and Marketing for the Western India.

WHAT COMPRISED YOUR WORK IN THE SALES AND MARKETING

DEPARTMENT AS AN ASSOCIATE? WHAT WERE THE
RESPONSIBILITIES YOU WERE ENTRUSTED WITH?

At Rainmaker, we were developing products for law students and lawyers, especially
litigating lawyers, and also people interested in LPOs. It involved travelling and
meeting law schools, litigating lawyers and budding lawyers for whom joining LPOs
was a good career option.

WHY HAVE YOU CHOSEN THIS PARTICULAR AVENUE OF

MARKETING AND BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT, AND WHY NOT LEGAL
PRACTICE AT A CORPORATE LAW FIRM?
At my stint at Rainmaker, which is also a recruiting company for lawyers, I had not
come across anyone doing BD as a full time job. After Rainmaker, I joined Trilegal
and realised this is what I like, and because it was a different kind of work in the
industry, I believed that the value of this kind of work will have more avenues once
the market opens for international firms. At Trilegal, I had an opportunity to work with
Allen & Overy (A&O), when the firms had a referral relationship. It was very exciting
to work in that setup, and it made my decision stronger to do BD for a law firm, rather
than provide a legal opinion, or do transactions.

WHAT LED TO YOUR RECRUITMENT AT TRILEGAL? TELL US

ABOUT YOUR RECRUITMENT PROCESS AT TRILEGAL TO OUR
READERS.

When I was looking to move from Rainmaker, my mentor’s (at Rainmaker) wife was
doing BD at Trilegal, and she was looking for a junior, as Trilegal was looking to build
a BD team at the firm. He recommended my name to her. Mr. Karan Singh then
interviewed me, and as I had some experience in sales and marketing, I was taken
on board. I was lucky to work at Trilegal.

OUR READERS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR WORK

PROFILE AS AN ASSOCIATE OF BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT IN A
TOP-TIER LAW FIRM IN INDIA.

As a BD professional, I am involved in the indirect marketing of the firm by assisting

in the visibility of the firm. I assist the partners and the firm, as a whole, to maintain
their presence in the market. Sector tapping and industry intelligence is another part
of my job, along with helping the firm market itself, both nationally and internationally.
WHAT KIND OF BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT SKILLS SHOULD ONE
REQUIRE WORKING IN A TOP-TIER LAW FIRM LIKE TRILEGAL?

No law school or MBA school can teach you marketing in a legal firm, but the most
important thing that one should have is the will to learn and take a risk of doing
something different from the peers. Be it Trilegal or any other law firm, at a starting
point, one should research well on things such as what BD of a legal firm actually
means, why a law firm is not allowed to market themselves, and what the difference
between a direct and an indirect marketing is. Knowing some law helps, but even if
you don’t have a law degree, you can still join the BD team. These skills can only be
learnt on the job, but if BD is what one wants to be a part of, one has to be a
people’s person, along with having a good hold on the language.

You have worked with Trilegal [Mumbai office] for nearly 2 years and 5 months, as
an Associate of Business Development of the firm. Share your work experience in
brief to our readers. Was the work schedule hectic at times?

Trilegal was the first law firm I worked at. My practical learning of BD at a law firm
started then. I was lucky to work at Trilegal, and at a time when they had a referral
relationship with A&O, it broadened my platform of learning. I did put in long hours,
as I was new to the concept of BD, and I really wanted to understand and learn this
side of the legal sector. Trilegal was very supportive.

HOW DID YOU START WORKING AT I&S ASSOCIATES?

I wanted to start growing as a professional and start implementing BD strategies,

rather than only execute them. A friend who knew about an opening in I&S helped
me get an interview slot there, and hence the job.
YOU HAVE WORKED WITH I&S ASSOCIATES AS A HEAD OF THE
STRATEGY AND RELATIONSHIP SEGMENT. TELL US ABOUT YOUR
WORK EXPERIENCE AT I&S ASSOCIATES.

I&S was a small firm founded by Ms. Anuradha Iyer and Ms. Bakhtiar Sunavala,and
it gave me a way to start implementing my ideas. The partners were very
cooperative and understanding about the new concept of BD. I was in I&S for two
years.

CURRENTLY, YOU ARE WORKING AS A BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT

MANAGER OF J. SAGAR ASSOCIATES. HOW DID YOU SECURE
YOUR APPOINTMENT AT J. SAGAR ASSOCIATES? DID YOU GET AN
OFFER FROM THE FIRM?

JSA Mumbai was looking for someone who can do BD for their firm, and my name
was recommended by Ms. Anuradha Iyer to Mr. Akshay Chudasama, who was
looking to expand the BD team, and he then interviewed me. I then met Mr. Berjis
Desai and Ms. Dina Wadia for the final confirmation. I was fortunate that they offered
me the BD – Manager position.

HOW DIFFICULT WOULD YOU SAY IT IS, CHANGING WORKPLACES

AND CREATING A COMFORT ZONE ALL OVER AGAIN?

With experience, it’s just a matter of time about how professional you are to be able
adjust in a new place. One has to understand the culture of the firm, and take baby
steps to make their mark. In my view, it’s not difficult to create a comfort zone all
over again if the person is willing to learn. There are adjustments in any new place,
but we have to learn to gel and focus on the growth, and other things will fall into
place.

KINDLY WALK US THROUGH YOUR ROLE AT JSA. HOW DIFFERENT

IS IT BEING A BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER FROM AN
ATTORNEY?

As the BD – Manager of the firm, I assist the firm in sustaining their visibility in the
market. My role is to assist the partners and the firm as a whole, to develop new
client relationship and strengthen the existing client relationships that we have. I help
with the client events, deal submissions, cross – selling, proposals and pitches,
attending conferences and also helping the partners to attend the relevant
conferences/ seminars, rebranding, market intelligence and sector tapping, help the
attorneys network etc.

WHAT ARE THE MAIN QUALITIES THAT ONE SHOULD ACQUIRE TO

BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT FIELD? PLEASE
SHARE WITH OUR READERS.

Patience is the key to be successful, and as there are no specific courses or graphs
that one can follow, it takes time to get the grip of the type of role a BD person needs
to do. Also as attorneys are mostly busy with the deals, a BD person needs to follow
up, not once, not twice, but several times, to get the information from them, and then
send it out to the public domain. This needs patience, and an understanding that BD
is important, but delivery to the client is also important for the partners and attorneys.
As they juggle between everything, all they need is our support to market what they
work on.
HOW IS YOUR EXPERIENCE SO FAR? WHAT IS YOUR WORKDAY
LIKE? ARE THERE NEW CHALLENGES EVERY DAY OR DID WORK
FALL INTO A PREDICTABLE PATTERN?

My experience has been very good till date. I am fortunate to have worked with the
best since I started my journey. As all of us know that with lawyers nothing is
predictable, and thus, most days are filled with some or the other kind of work. The
category of work may be similar, but different clients have different demands. I am
informed of these demands by the attorneys, and then I have to customise the
research and information. Challenges are there, but with JSA being a very
supportive and cooperative firm, work gets on time.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE TO LAW STUDENTS

WHO WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
FIELD, AND WANT TO WORK AS A BD MANAGER IN A TOP-TIER
LAW FIRM LIKE YOU?
Nothing comes easy, so remember to have patience, and do not shy away from the
hard work. As a BD professional, you will be the odd one out in the firm, but let that
work in your favour, rather than making you feel lost. BD is an important function of
the firm, so put your best foot forward to understand which firm requires what kind of
BD, since some will need aggressive marketing, while some only need their visibility
to be sustained. Do your research on the firm and the partners of the firm well.

Choose the right firms, but always choose the learning before anything.

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launching World Law Forum, and resolving Business and Human Rights
disputes through arbitration


Debanshu Khettry, Principal Associate, Leslie & Khettry, on LLM from UCL
and challenges of starting new ventures

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FEATURED INSIGHTS

Nandan Kamath, Founder, LawNK, on

building an illustrious career in Sports
Law and IPR and being a Rhodes
Scholar

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 7, 2015
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Nandan Kamath traded his dream of being a professional cricketer for a life in law,
and since then, there has been no looking back for him. A graduate of National Law
School of India University (NLSIU) in the year 2000, Nandan has been a recipient of
the Rhodes Scholarship. After completing his BCL in Law and M.Sc. in Economic &
Social History from Balliol College, University of Oxford in 2002, he went on to
pursue his Masters in Harvard Law School.Soon after graduating in 2003, he joined
as an Associate with Davis Polk & Wardwell, where he worked for three years. On
returning to India, he founded his own law firm, The Law Offices of Nandan Kamath
(Law NK), which is one of the leading law firms in the country in the field of Sports,
Media, Technology and IPR Laws.

With this interview, he opens up to students about:

 The importance of hard work, dedication and discipline in the field of law;
 His dual Masters in law from Oxford University and Harvard University;
 His experience of working at an international law firm;
 Working in close connection to a field close to his heart – Sports

YOU ARE A LAW GRADUATE FROM NLSIU, WHAT

MOTIVATED YOU TO PURSUE LAW, ESPECIALLY
FROM NLSIU?
I was a law student by chance, rather than by design. In my teenage years, I was a
sportsman first, and a student next. I had my eyes set on a professional career in
cricket, and chose my pre-university college purely on the strength of its cricket
team. The first time I heard of NLSIU was when they sent a volleyball team to
participate in our college sports festival, and I remember seeing the players’ jerseys
and only thinking, at the time,that N-L-S-I-U was quite an odd jumble of letters put
together. The next introduction to the law school was when the college cricket team I
was on, ended up playing against (and beating) the NLSIU team. As thoughts of
needing a proper college degree began to loom, I heard from a classmate about the
NLSIU entrance test. Being interested in word games, puzzles and logic, I thought it
would be an interesting experience for its own sake. I looked over a couple of past
test papers the night before the exam, took it, and surprised myself by making it
through. Although things were certainly not as competitive then as they are now,
getting through the entrance exam convinced me that I might have some aptitude for
the law. At least the examiners thought so!

TELL US ABOUT YOUR TIME AT NLSIU, WHAT

WERE YOUR CAREER PLANS AFTER
GRADUATION?
Life at NLSIU didn’t get off to a particularly auspicious start. Dr. Menon made it very
clear at my entrance interview that I had to choose to either pursue cricket or law
studies (but not both), as the institution only had space for full-time students with
strict attendance requirements. In the pre-IPL days, the odds were stacked against
making a career out of cricket, so it wasn’t really much of a choice. Having made that
trade-off, I put my head down and took my academics quite seriously for the first
time in my life. It seemed like the right thing to do – to make full use of the
opportunity if, in order to pursue it, I had given up something I was good at and
enjoyed. I found that the institution was an excellent place to become aware of
various national and international issues.The regularity of project work and exams
enforced a level of discipline which I was quite happy to adopt. At the same time, it
was quite challenging, in various ways, to be at an institution with students from all
over the country, each asserting and debating different identities, perspectives and
ways of thinking. It gave me a broad and useful platform in the study of law and
people in general. I also met some of the smartest people I know during my five
years there. In terms of career plans, I was fortunate to be selected for the Rhodes
Scholarship at the beginning of my final year, so my immediate plans were made for
me.
AFTER GRADUATION YOU WENT ON TO PURSUE
BCL FROM OXFORD AS A RHODES SCHOLAR.
PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE COURSE AND YOUR
TIME AT OXFORD.
The BCL was a very rigorous, jurisprudence oriented course, and the academic
standards were very high. I did courses on intellectual property and transnational
commercial laws. The perspective was very different, with the focus being on why
laws are the way they are and how they have come to be, rather than the descriptive
study of the law I had been used to. It needed a fair bit of adjustment to think more
analytically and to have an opinion and a view on the law, rather than being required
to know what it was. In my second year at Oxford, I did my Masters in economic and
social history with a focus on the history of networks and technologies, and found it
very interesting. Overall, my time at Oxford was idyllic with a great mix of sports,
social and academic activities. I met an internationally diverse group of people
during my time there, each person with multiple interests and skills. My time at
Oxford broadened my perspective and my horizons, both socially and academically.
YOU DID NOT END YOUR ACADEMIC STREAK AT
OXFORD, BUT WENT FURTHER AND
PURSUED LL.M FROM HARVARD. WHAT WAS IT
LIKE TO GET INTO, AND STUDY AT HARVARD LAW
SCHOOL?
I applied to Harvard Law School after having completed my BCL, so that probably
strengthened my application. Being at Harvard Law School after two years at Oxford
involved moving from a multi-disciplinary social setting, to the company of hundreds
of highly-charged law graduates,most of whom had never stood second at anything
they had done. It was a very competitive environment and not particularly easy
going. Nonetheless, I found the LL.M. was very helpful as preparation for law
practice.The weekly reading load was huge, and overall, the courses were intense
and challenging (befitting the atmosphere). I found the analytical frameworks used
by the teachers quite fascinating and very practically relevant, whether it was the
economic analysis of law, legal realism, or anything else. It gave me a new lens to
look at the law with, and added nuance and process to my thought process.

HOW DO YOUR DUAL MASTERS IN LAW HELP YOU

IN YOUR CURRENT WORK PROFILE? DO YOU
PLAN TO GO FOR ANY FURTHER STUDIES?
I believe that one’s law studies and degrees are only as valuable as the lawyer they
produce. My studies have certainly given me a lot in terms of perspective, ways of
thinking and analysis, and that is very valuable.Other than that, I don’t think the tags
of being from a particular university help me that much in the work I do, other than
perhaps leading to a (rebuttable!) presumption that I am not completely inept. As for
further studies, I think the phase of my life involving formal academic study is
probably behind me –I can’t really see myself going back to the classroom, exams
and dissertations. But I’ll never say never – I may just surprise myself if something
really excites me.

GIVEN YOUR ACADEMIC RECORD, WERE YOU

EVER INTERESTED IN PURSUING AN ACADEMIC
CAREER?
I do enjoy teaching a few classes here and there, alongside my law practice.
However, pursuing an academic career was never on my agenda. I didn’t feel I had
either the intellectual firepower, or the patience required to master an area of law
sufficiently to teach it repeatedly, consistently and engagingly.
AFTER YOUR LL.M FROM HARVARD YOU JOINED
DAVIS POLK, A GLOBAL LAW FIRM.HOW DID YOU
GET RECRUITED THERE?
I had met one of the senior partners of the firm during an internship in Mumbai at
ICICI Bank,while still in law school, and had managed to stay in touch. A few years
later, when I finished at Harvard Law School, I got back in touch, was called for an
interview and made it through the process. It wasn’t a very hot job market at the time
and I consider myself very lucky to have got the opportunity.

WHAT IS IT LIKE TO WORK IN A BIG AND GLOBAL

LAW FIRM?PLEASE TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT
THE KIND OF WORK YOU DID THERE.
I worked for three years at the California office of Davis Polk in the intellectual
property and global technology group. The work involved intellectual property and
corporate advisory, especially in relation to mergers and acquisitions, and capital
markets transactions. It was the perfect first job for me. It was challenging both
substantively and in terms of work hours and it forced me to up my game, and push
my limits. I found a number of mentors among the partners there. The importance of
attention to detail, personal responsibility for (and pride in) work product and client
orientation were my main takeaways. I also saw that it is possible to create an open,
friendly and informal work environment without compromise on work product and
quality standards.

YOU LEFT DAVIS POLK AFTER THREE YEARS,

WHAT WERE YOUR REASONS TO DO SO?
When I started my studies abroad, I had set myself a target of being back in India in
5-6 years. The end of this period also coincided with some plateauing in my learning
and it was becoming clear that the big law firm trajectory was not the best one for
me. I left Davis Polk after a brief stint in Hong Kong and Mumbai,and moved back to
my hometown Bangalore, where I wanted to live and work. I didn’t have a specific
work plan but was happy to put down roots and figure things out.

YOU SET UP LAWNK – THE LAW OFFICES OF

NANDAN KAMATH AFTER YOU LEFT DAVIS POLK,
WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATION BEHIND GOING
INDEPENDENT?
My father is a Chartered Accountant who started his own practice from scratch,
worked hard, and succeeded off his own steam. Watching him from close quarters
helped me recognise the many advantages of independence. It also inspired me to
chart my own course, without too much fear or doubt coming into the picture. Having
the opportunity to choose what I was going to work on was a big luxury, and I was
determined to work in an area I loved – sport. With a view of working on sports law, I
went about meeting a number of athletes, coaches and others working in the
nascent sports industry.

Every one of them made it quite clear that there was little value a lawyer could add at
that point, given the lack of structure and professionalism in the field. That feedback
temporarily set back my plans to establish a sports law practice. I involved myself in
other ventures in sport and athlete representation, which gave me a ground level
view of issues Indian athletes were facing and the state of play overall. Over time, I
started getting requests for legal assistance from others who were making their way
in sport business and I began advising them as a sole practitioner. The game
changer came in 2008 with the IPL. The professionalization of sports through the
league brought sports contracts into the mainstream in India. This is when things
took flight, and the firm has grown organically since then.

LAWNK – THE LAW OFFICES OF NANDAN KAMATH

SPECIALISES IN SPORTS, MEDIA, TECHNOLOGY
AND IPR LAWS.HOW DID YOU BUILD YOUR CLIENT
BASE, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU SPENT YOUR
FORMATIVE YEARS OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY?
Over the years, our clients have found us rather than the other way around. A well-
defined focus in terms of practice areas, and a team that is knowledgeable and
passionate about the work, are our greatest strengths.The client base has built
through word of mouth, and it is not something I have ever actively worried about.
We focus on our work, and know that interesting work will find us when the time is
ripe and the opportunity is right.
YOU ARE ALSO A TRUSTEE AT GOSPORTS
FOUNDATION.TELL US A BIT ABOUT IT AND YOUR
ROLE THEREIN?
GoSports Foundation (www.gosports.in) is a non-profit that I co-founded in 2008.
The organisation’s vision is to empower young athletes and enable them to achieve
their Olympic and Paralympic dreams. Being quite aware of the state of Indian
sports, we started GoSports Foundation to contribute our bit to the growth of an
athlete-centric sports ecosystem in non-cricket sports. Our quest is to bring
professionalism and positivity into athletes’ journeys and to ride with them through
ups and downs, providing financial support, mentorship, access to expertise and
career advice. As Managing Trustee, I play an active role in the administration of the
organisation, and support the executive team wherever needed in the programmes.
It also provides me the opportunity to work with our Board of Advisors, which
comprises of Abhinav Bindra, Rahul Dravid and P. Gopichand, in thinking about
Indian sport and making meaningful interventions. It is work that I love and an
organisation I am proud being a part of. I have met fascinating people along the
way, and my work with GoSports Foundation has opened doors to a wide variety of
experiences – from hosting a TV sports show, to designing national talent support
schemes, working with childhood heroes, being on selection panels and drafting
state sports policies. While it is often challenging work and requires lots of self-belief,
I have received far more from it than I have given.
Rahul Dravid on extreme left and Nandan Kamath on extreme right.

WHO FORM YOUR CLIENTELE? COULD YOU

PLEASE SHARE WITH US ANY REPRESENTATION
YOU ARE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF HAVING
WORKED ON?
Our sports practice advises a wide range of governing bodies, franchises, players
and sports brands. Cricket and football have been the primary disciplines but we are
now seeing more in tennis, badminton and golf, and the new professional leagues
are also mushrooming. Other areas of our special focus have been advertising and
marketing laws, e-commerce, privacy, food and beverages law, and medical law. I
am particularly proud of our team for being empanelled by the ICC as the official law
firm for the Cricket World Cup hosted in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in 2011. It
was a great honour and privilege, and watching India win the finals was the icing on
the cake!
DO YOU THINK PLAYING SPORTS HAS HELPED
YOU AS A LAWYER?
I have always believed that playing serious sport is excellent preparation for
professional life. With the benefit of many years of experience now, I think this is
even more so for the law. Competitive sport provides early exposure to the
adversarial process. It also requires one to make real-time decisions based on
dynamic, unstructured data –which is only possible to do competently if you have
prepared thoroughly, and practised hard. All this is not too different from law
practice! Also, sport teaches you that although it is primarily your own individual
pursuit, you are almost always playing in a context – representing someone or
something else (a team, institution or even a country). Similarly, it is a client and/or a
cause that makes one an advocate, and that is always good perspective to carry.
Finally, you learn from sport that you are only as good as your last innings, but I’m
going to ignore that for now because my last one was a duck.

MANY OF OUR READERS WOULD BE INTERESTED

IN HAVING A CAREER IN SPORTS LAW AND
REPRESENTING CELEBRITY SPORT STARS. WHAT
WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO THEM?
If it is truly a substantive area that you are interested in, it is a field worth investing
time and energy into. The glory and glamour fade away quite quickly, so it is
important to have the right motivations – that will help you stick it out through the
early days and mature and stay passionate about and interested in the work. Other
than that, the best advice I got as a young lawyer was to become a good lawyer first
before attempting to add any prefixes (such as ‘sports’ lawyer), and to focus first on
learning the tools of the profession – in transactional law, that includes things like
client communication, drafting, time management, multi-tasking,organisation,
attention to detail, and finding one’s own methods and practices. If you have built a
strong practice toolkit, adding new substantive areas to the repertoire is actually not
that difficult. Sports law is not rocket science and it is an interest that can be
pursued at any point by a skilled lawyer.

WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR WHEN YOU HIRE

LAWYERS TO WORK WITH YOU?
We look for self-motivated young lawyers who have also demonstrated their interest
in our practice areas. Our firm has graduates from NLSIU, NALSAR, Symbiosis,
ILS, GNLU and NUJS, so it is quite a diverse set. A few have come through our
internship process, which is a good outcome for all concerned. I am very proud of
the lawyers in our firm, and have enjoyed seeing them grow steadily as
professionals. From what I see, today’s young law graduates are better trained and
prepared than I was when I finished law school.

DO YOU PROVIDE FOR INTERNSHIP

OPPORTUNITIES? WHERE SHOULD A LAW
STUDENT APPLY IF HE/SHE WANTS EXPOSURE IN
SPORTS LAW?
Yes, we do have an internship programme. We accept only one or two interns at a
time to make the experience meaningful, so spots are limited. It is a chance to give
law students exposure to the types of work we do, and our work environment. There
is an online form (http://www.lawnk.com/home/) that interested applicants can
complete for more information on the process.
IT IS A DREAM TO WORK IN THE SUBJECT WE
LOVE FOR MOST OF US. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO
SAY TO THOSE WHO DIDN’T END UP DOING WHAT
THEY LOVE THE MOST?
As one steadily moves up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs (I told you that NLSIU left a
lasting impact!), beyond security and the need for external recognition and validation,
I feel that the journey ends up becoming about two things – the pursuit of mastery
and the pursuit of engagement. Mastery brings the joy of excellence; engagement
brings the joy of working on things one cares about. It is only the lucky few whose
pursuit of both mastery and engagement unify in their daily work, or even converge
on a regular basis for that matter. I feel the rest of us must remain open to tapping
different and diverse outlets and sources if we are to simultaneously experience both
of these pursuits. For whatever reason, not everyone might get engagement with
things one loves at the workplace. But it is still possible to find an outlet for this,
maybe through hobbies, volunteer work or even by innovating within the limitations
of the workplace. Life is too short and you are already very fortunate if you know
what you truly love!

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE FOR

OUR READERS?
Have a clear career plan in mind, but leave enough room for chance to play its part.
Also, stay open to being inspired.

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2 COMMENTS

ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Nagarjun Matangi, Legal Counsel,
Hewlett-Packard India, on the HP OGC
programme and work experience

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 6, 2015

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Nagarjun Matangi graduated in law from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2011. As a student he

was the Recipient of Vice Chancellor’s Gold Medal for “Outstanding Personal
Achievement” and he was also the Vice President of Student Bar Association in the
year 2009-10.

During his final year Hewlett-Packard (HP) had launched the Graduate Attorney
Program in India and reached out to colleges – Nagarjun was among the two
students who got selected from NLSIU (4 in total) as part their campus recruitment
drive.

Since then Nagarjun has been working at Hewlett-Packard as a legal counsellor. His
role includes a combination of Commercial Transaction support plus providing
support for General Legal matters.

In this interview with Nagarjun we talk about:

 His college years as a part of NLSIU

 Planning his internships in his college years
 Starting work as a legal counsellor of Hewlett-Packard
 The HP India OGC Internship Program and the qualities they lookout for
 The legal department at HP

WHAT MADE YOU GRAVITATE TOWARDS THE STUDY OF LAW AT

NLS? WAS IT PLANNED OR JUST A MATTER OF CHANCE?

It was completely unplanned and was an interesting turn of events. I hail from
Andhra Pradesh where the choice is usually limited between Engineering and
Medicine and I had never been able to fully decide upon my choice of stream. I spent
seven years in Sainik School Korukonda which was a feeder institution to the
National Defence Academy, but was for some reason inclined to remain a civilian. I
could never get over the confusion as I had managed to secure a seat in institutions
meant for completely different streams – IIT, Architecture and Law.

I chose Law primarily to overcome the stereotype of options that I observed around
me and that turned out to be a truly rewarding choice of a lifetime.

WHAT WERE YOUR AREAS OF INTEREST DURING YOUR

GRADUATION? HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DEVELOPING EXPERTISE
AND KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS?

When you end up in law school by accident, you get excited and interested at
everything that is introduced to you. I was very fascinated with Tax, Constitution and
Family laws. However, what truly interested me were the Commercial Contracts and
the difference that a crafty draftsman can make to the Contract. I used to try and pick
up associated matters in my internship to understand how the Courts dealt with the
interpretation of complex commercial clauses in a contract and I also used to select
Seminar Courses that offer practical knowledge on these aspects. One would be
surprised as to how much more this area of practice can offer beyond what is taught
in classroom.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT MOOTING AT LAW SCHOOL

AND LEGAL WRITING FOR JOURNALS? ARE THESE HELPFUL EVEN
AFTER THE STUDENT GRADUATES?

I admit not having given much attention to either of these activities during law school;
but it wasn’t something I had to regret. However, now that I am better informed, if I
had an option to revisit my time as a law student, I would definitely make use of
these options for they aid in developing essential skillsets at a very nascent stage. It
would remain useful even after graduation.

DID YOU PLAN OUT YOUR INTERNSHIPS THROUGHOUT LAW

SCHOOL OR DID IT ALL JUST HAPPEN BY CHANCE? WHAT ROLE
DID THE PLACEMENT COMMITTEE PLAY IN SECURING
INTERNSHIPS?

One of the pitfalls of accidentally ending up at law school, is that one would lack the
requisite awareness about legal internships and how to plan them. Thanks to my
seniors and friends at NLS, I could fill up this gap before it was far too late. This is
also a reason why most of my internships were at trial and High Courts. While I did
learn a great deal from my internships at these Courts, someone interested in a
corporate profile would have prioritized and planned their internships a little
differently.

It is essential for the fresh students to be educated at the option generally available
through formal sessions that can be organized by the student body itself. Else, it
could be too late before the batch can have its Placement Committee set-up.

Our Placement Committee played a great role in providing wider options and
facilitating the selection process for these internships. Most students get introduced
to formal In-house or law firm internships thru the Placement Committee.
YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING AT HEWLETT-PACKARD AS LEGAL
COUNSEL SINCE YOUR GRADUATION. HOW DID YOUR
APPOINTMENT TAKE PLACE? PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE
RECRUITMENT PROCESS AT HEWLETT-PACKARD.

HP was implementing the Graduate Attorney Program in India for the first time in
2011 and had reached out to NLS and a couple of other colleges for this selection.
This program was part of the Talent Factory initiative of HP’s Office of the General
Counsel (OGC) which focuses on Making Talent internally rather than Taking Talent
from outside the organization. The selection process involved two rounds of
interviews, one each with the then Country Counsel of HP India and also with the
regional Deputy General Counsel who had come down from Singapore for this
purpose. This program is a regular feature in HP US and was being introduced in
India only on a pilot basis. However, there is certainly a lot of enthusiasm and
positive vibe around it here and it should not be long before we reach out to the
colleges in India for implementing round 2 of this program again here.

That said, general recruitments at In-house legal teams, unlike law firms is strictly
based on openings that may come up. It involves a combination of factors like the
timing of the opening, the role and experience requirements sought for such
opening, etc.

TELL US WHAT YOUR TYPICAL WORK DAY IS LIKE. WHAT IS THE

ROLE OF AN IN-HOUSE COUNSEL AT HEWLETT-PACKARD? WHAT
ARE YOUR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITIES?

For most of us on HP’s Legal Team (OGC) in India, our role is a combination of
Commercial Transaction Support plus providing support for General Legal matters.
As part of transactional support, we are involved in drafting, reviewing and
negotiating contracts concerning provision of various aspects of the Information
Technology portfolio (services/software/hardware/cloud). This involves a lot of
collaboration with the respective teams to understand the nature of IT solution being
offered by HP, the risk associated, advising on mitigation strategies etc.

A good amount of my day is spent in meetings of this nature with various

stakeholders of the contracting/tendering process as well as those involved in
offering the solution. These are essentially my internal clients. Contract negotiations
are the part I keenly look forward to and one gets to learn a great deal from these
negotiations.

General legal matters include Data Privacy, Taxation (limited), Litigation Support,
Commercial Disputes, Internal business advisory, Competition law etc. (new and
interesting issues keep coming up for reference and the same may not fall into any
particular bucket of practice). These cannot be further detailed.

Being a large MNC with diverse operations, guidance is sought from the legal team
on numerous legal matters associated with the day to day functioning. Litigations
and Consumer matters also form part of the portfolio of the legal team at HP. In
addition to the same the team also needs to proactively align the business with the
changing regulatory requirements and provide trainings as well as prepare suitable
policies to guide all employees.

HOW IS THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT ORGANIZED AT HP?

HP India OGC is primarily segregated into teams that support a particular Business
Unit of the Company. Various portfolios of the IT sector as handled by the respective
Business Units. At the same time, the teams are not segregated into water tight
compartmentalized structures. For example, today I may be primarily supporting the
Printing and Personal Systems division of the company, but I can always extend
support to the transactions involving Software licensing. This helps us diversify our
experience in all portfolios that the IT industry has to offer, especially since HP’s
operations extend into all these portfolios.

Other countries in our region (Asia-Pacific-Japan) have similar team structures and
the entire region reports into the Deputy General Counsel for APJ. The DGCs of all
regions across the world finally report into the General Counsel based at our HQ in
Palo Alto.

WHAT IS THE BASIC DIFFERENCE THAT YOU SEE BETWEEN A

LAWYER AND AN IN-HOUSE COUNSEL? WHAT DO YOU THINK IS
THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE FOR AN IN-HOUSE COUNSEL?

The basic differentiating factor lies in our association with our clientele and the
purpose of such association. While a lawyer will put forth the existing position of law
before the client, the role of an in-house counsel goes a mile beyond and is required
to show the path of compliance with the ever changing dynamic laws and ensure it is
in line with the ultimate business objectives.
As in-house counsels, we need to be conscious of the fact that our business teams
are our primary clients and instead of throwing fancy jargons or weighty case names,
our responses should be simpler and more comprehensible to our clients who do not
necessarily have a legal background. And when the response is a NO, we must be
capable of showing the path of compliance to make it a YES. This is both a primary
function as well as the biggest challenge to do well as an in-house counsel.

Particularly, at HP, we are encouraged to focus on innovating upon the existing

processes to make them Simpler and Better. It is a constant endeavour and a great
linking factor of all attorneys that are part of the worldwide OGC team – to make it
matter!

TELL US MORE ABOUT THE HP INDIA OGC INTERNSHIP PROGRAM.

HOW CAN ONE APPLY FOR AN INTERNSHIP AT HP? WHAT
QUALITIES DO THEY LOOK FOR IN AN INTERN?

Our internship program is yet another extended arm of our Talent Factory initiative.
Very few would disagree when I say that most internships that we have experienced
only use our existing skillset and one cannot always claim to have learnt a new
skillset with which you can walk away upon completion of the internship.
While designing our 4 week internship program we made a conscious effort to
ensure that the intern is able to walk out with a completely new skillset acquired
during the internship. We have created a detailed training-cum-working program
where a lot of emphasis is laid on first training the intern around the work we do
through a dedicated mentor assigned to each of the interns. Virtual classroom
sessions are taken up by our attorneys from different locations on designated fields
of our operation (IT Contracts, compliance programs, Privacy, IPR, Corporate,
Consumer laws, etc.). Primary emphasis is laid in educating the interns of our
contracting process, stakeholders involved, our preferred contractual positions and
their rationale, etc.

If it were left to me, I would term it nothing short of a seminar course on Applied IT
Contracting!

We currently have two slots each year – Jan/Feb and June/July; and we
accommodate a maximum of two interns per slot. We reach out to select colleges
thru their respective placement committees in order to carry out the application
process.

Applicants are evaluated on the basis of their – Covering Letters + CV followed by a

Telephonic Interview (for shortlisted applicants) and their response to a sample
query. At all stages, the applicants are assessed on their clarity of thought and
simplicity of expression.

LASTLY, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO OUR READERS

WHO ARE MAINLY YOUNG LAWYERS AND LAW STUDENTS?

Student life, especially to law students, offers certain learning opportunities which
are available only when we are still a student. There is no way we can go back and
catch that bus. So do ensure that you work out your priorities and avail them so as to
have minimal regrets later on.
To the young lawyers – it is always an added advantage if you are able to think
beyond the black and white letters and are able to apply your own judgement. This
will require an understanding of the commercial and business implications of your
advice which can be acquired only with your conscious effort. A plain legalese advice
is no advice if it cannot reap tangible benefits or cannot be understood by the client.

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1 COMMENT

FEATURED INSIGHTS

Sudhir Mishra, Founder & Managing

Partner, Trust Legal, on building an
illustrious career in Environmental Law

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 5, 2015
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Sudhir Mishra completed his graduation in History from Deshbandhu College, Delhi
University. Thereafter in 1998, he finished his degree in Law from Campus Law
Centre, Delhi University. Soon after graduation, he started his own law firm, Trust
Legal, which specialises in environmental, health, financial services, securitisation,
banking, oil and gas law practice, as well as alternative dispute resolution.

In this interview, he speaks about:

 Choosing a niche area such as Environment Law for specialisation

 Starting his own full service law firm right after graduation
 His most memorable transactions in Environment and Corporate Law

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS, WHO

ARE YOUNG AND ASPIRING LAWYERS?

I am a first generation lawyer who was always very sure about one thing – that I will
not join any law firm, but will start on my own. It was in the year 1998, when I
plunged into the legal profession with all my belief, that one day this country will take
note of me.

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO HAVE A CAREER IN LAW?

I did not decide – it happened by accident and destiny. I was interviewed for IAS in
1998 and failed to clear it, and then was forced to a large extent by my father, who
was a serving IAS officer, to take law as a career.

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO BECOME AN INDEPENDENT LEGAL

PROFESSIONAL, RATHER THAN JOINING A SENIOR LAWYER OR
LAW FIRM AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR CAREER?
As in 1998 there were very few law firms and I was already twenty eight (28) years of
age, I had a lot of reluctance in undertaking prolonged training and working as a
junior in a law office. I had great interest in environmental issues, and during my
training with Ms. Pinki Anand, Senior Advocate and now Additional Solicitor General
(ASG), I was very confident about kick starting my own practice, rather than being
part of somebody else’s setup. I took everyday as a challenge, setup a small office at
home and started visiting NGOs working in the field of Environmental Law.
Somehow, there was a deep feeling inside me that I will succeed as a lawyer, which
propelled and fuelled my ambition of being on my own. In three years’ time, by 2001,
I was retained by close to five National and International NGO’s and was also
working for Government Undertakings and lot of private companies. It was a time of
excitement, uncertainty and thrill, and I loved every moment of it.

WHAT MADE YOU CHOOSE ENVIRONMENTAL LAW? PLEASE TELL

US YOUR EXPERIENCES THAT MADE YOU FOCUS YOUR PRACTICE
IN ENVIRONMENTAL LAW.

I was attracted to Environmental Law because there were very few lawyers involved
in this field, and I had a great liking for environmental issues, most specifically
Wildlife and Conservation.
PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE MOST MEMORABLE
ENVIRONMENTAL LAW PETITIONS YOU HAVE LITIGATED ON.

The two most important petitions which I followed and argued on Environmental Law
have been:

1. Stopping the road which was passing through the Jim Corbett Tiger Reserve,
before the Supreme Court, and
2. Stopping a wet land (World Bank Drainage) project, for the protection of Sarus
Cranes, before the Allahabad High Court.

ALSO, WHAT HAVE BEEN YOUR MOST MEMORABLE

ENVIRONMENTAL LAW TRANSACTIONS ON THE CORPORATE
SIDE?

My most memorable environmental law transaction on the corporate side has been
in helping the largest FDI in a tourism project for setting up a Ski Village in Manali
(Himachal Pradesh), wherein I managed the Environment Impact Assessment (EIA),
Environmental Clearance issues (EC) and Environmental Management Plans, by
engaging with The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI) and Indian Institute of
Forest Management (IIFM).
WHAT DID YOU FIND APPEALING ABOUT WORKING ON YOUR
OWN?

It’s like being a daily wage earner, who is a master of his own fate. Life is so
uncertain that securing a career and a settled and a protected life is too boring.

FROM AN INDEPENDENT LEGAL PRACTICE TO FORMING AND

RUNNING THE BOUTIQUE LAW FIRM TRUST LEGAL – HOW
CHALLENGING WAS YOUR JOURNEY?

I was left with little options, since the country had been acknowledging me as a
prolific Environmental lawyer by 2003-2004. Infact, I went for the International
Visitors Leadership Programme (IVLP 2005) organised by the US Government,
owing to my pioneer work in Environmental Law in India. However, big commercial
success was more a need and necessity for social recognition. I was married in 1999
to Mamta Tiwari, who became a Partner in Fox Mandal in the year 2001, and was
regularly being voted amongst the top 20 Dispute Resolution Lawyers in Chambers
& Partners, Legal 500, etc.

Comparisons started to happen, and it was very important for me to ensure that
environmental law would pay just as well. We created the firm Trust Legal with that
philosophy, and today we are the leading law firm representing all kinds of
companies in India and abroad on Environment and Health law practice. Infact,
Healthcare has become a bigger and major practice area of the firm, with Trust Legal
representing more than 30 hospital groups across the country in litigation and
corporate advisory. The firm is also very active in the field of Real Estate &
Infrastructure, Oil and Gas and Banking & Finance law practice.

WHAT IS YOUR ROLE AS THE MANAGING PARTNER OF TRUST

LEGAL? WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGING AND STRESSFUL ASPECTS
OF MANAGING AND RUNNING A FIRM?

As the Managing Partner of the firm, I encourage my team to think as entrepreneurs.

My job is to ensure that the business of the firm is moving in the positive direction,
salaries are paid on time, talented people are encouraged, along with ensuring the
emotional and physical well-being of lawyers. There is nothing stressful in managing
a law firm as a lead Partner, since your entire day is filled with excitement, and a
sense of purpose and duty.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY TO THE NEXT GENERATION

LAWYERS? WHICH ARE THE GROWING AREAS OF LAW WHERE A
NEW LAW STUDENT OR YOUNG LAWYER CAN FOCUS AND
DISTINGUISH HIMSELF/ HERSELF?
I suggest that each lawyer should follow his/her own dreams, by assessing his/her
own interest area, and then working accordingly. I believe that apart from
environment; health, infrastructure, commercial litigation will also be new big areas
to focus on.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR EARLY EDUCATION, YOUR PLACE OF

GRADUATION, YOUR PLACE FOR LEARNING LAW AND YOUR
EXPERIENCES DURING STUDENT YEARS.

My early education was in a place called Siwan in Bihar, where most of my classes
upto class 10th were conducted under a tree, as the school building was very
depleted. I did my 10+2 from an even smaller town called Bankain Bihar, where my
father was posted, and then I moved to Delhi University. I did my graduation from
Deshbandhu College in History, and Law from Campus Law Centre, Delhi University.
Most of my education upto class 12th was supervised by my father at home, who
used to teach me personally, and there was a great emphasis on reading
newspapers, books, autobiography and magazines from a very early age of my life.
In my college and law school, my personality was greatly decided and shaped by my
friends who all are well accomplished in their respective careers.

WHOM ARE YOU INFLUENCED BY? WHO IS YOUR ROLE MODEL?

I am influenced by my father S.K. Misra (Ex IAS officer Bihar Cadre) and my role
model is my cousin sister Sonal Mishra (IAS officer Gujarat Cadre). My father taught
me that with confidence and integrity, anything is achievable. My sister Sonal taught
me the spirit of hard work, determination and aiming very high. Her success in IAS in
1997 fuelled in me a desire to make a very big career in law.
THESE DAYS, MOST YOUNG LAW STUDENTS LOOK TOWARDS
CORPORATE LAW. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THAT?

As I said earlier, one should not go by what everybody else is doing – the idea is to
create your own destiny, your own line, your own fate, your own league. One should
follow one’s instincts and never settle for something ordinary, or for quick returns.
One should remember that it’s a long life and success should remain a guiding factor
in your fifties and sixties, so the decision which you take in your twenties should not
ruin your old age.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE FUTURE OF LEGAL PROFESSION?

WHAT MESSAGE WOULD YOU GIVE TO YOUNG LAW STUDENTS
AND RECENT LAW GRADUATES?

The future of legal profession is superb, and is undergoing a silent revolution.

Hundreds of more law firms will come to cater to increased economic activity within
the country.

My message to young law graduates is to create something new and long-lasting.

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CLICK TO COMMENT

ACADEMICS, RESEARCHERS & INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATIONS

Umakanth Varottil, Assistant Professor,

National University of Singapore, Ex-
Amarchand Partner, on choosing
academics over corporate practice

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 4, 2015

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Prof. Dr. Umakanth Varottil is an Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law at the National
University Singapore (NUS). He is an alumnus of the National Law School of India
University, Bangalore, graduating in the year 1995. Soon after graduation, he joined
Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co. (AMSS), where he soon saw
promotion to the post of a Partner. While at AMSS, he was ranked as a leading
corporate/mergers & acquisitions lawyer in India by the Chambers global guide. He
then went on to complete his Masters from the New York University School of Law
(NYU) in 2007, and then his Ph.D. from NUS in 2010. He has since taught on a
visiting basis at the Fordham Law School, New York, University of Trento, Italy, and
at various law schools in India. He is the recipient of several academic medals and
honours. At present, he is an Assistant Professor of Law at National University of
Singapore (NUS).

In this interview, he talks about :

 His experience and journey from an Associate to a Partner at AMSS;

 What made him leave AMSS for a life in legal academia;
 His experience at NUS and NYU;
 His PhD on the role of the independent directors in corporate governance;
 Life as a Professor at NUS.

HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO STUDY LAW? WERE ANY OF YOUR

CLOSE RELATIVES LAWYERS?

Since my late father was a lawyer, I was exposed to the legal profession from an
early age. However, it was only after high school that I decided to follow his footsteps
and take up law as a career choice for myself.
HOW DID THE OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY AT NLSIU, BANGALORE
FEEL LIKE? DO YOU RECALL YOUR FIRST DAY AT THE HALLS OF
RESIDENCE? WOULD YOU LIKE TO SHARE ANY
OBSERVATION/MEMORY FROM THOSE DAYS?

Securing admission into NLSIU Bangalore at that time was an entirely different
ballgame from what it is today. At the time that I joined the law school, it was only
two years old, with a great amount of uncertainty as to what lay in store for its
students and graduates. Nevertheless, we were fortunate to have an eminent legal
personality in the form of Dr. Madhava Menon at the helm of affairs, who led an able
and dedicated team of law professors, which left no doubt in my mind that our
professional future was not only secure, but also promising.

Some of my early memories relates to my initiation into the study of law, which
revolved around analysing various social issues from a legal perspective, and
debating them in hope of arriving at a solution to real world problems. As any student
would experience in the first year of law school, there are no definitive answers to
questions or problems, and each issue is capable of being viewed from multiple
points of view. Added to this was the Socratic method of teaching adopted in the law
school, which tends to confound problems in the minds of students than to clarify or
resolve them. It is much later that I realised that this phenomenon was by design,
and not an accident. As I was a resident of Bangalore, I did not stay in the Halls of
Residence. Since NLSIU was still in its initial stage of establishment and hostels
were yet being constructed, residence on campus was not compulsory. As it turned
out, most of us “day scholars” spent long hours on campus, which helped us partake
in the community aspects of law school.
HOW DID YOU ALWAYS KEEP AHEAD OF YOUR BATCH AS A
STUDENT AT NLSIU? WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO THOSE
PEOPLE WHO NEVER SCORE MUCH BUT DO WELL AT
INTERNSHIPS AND MOOTS?

In describing academic life in an Indian law school such as NLSIU, I have previously
used a metaphor, which is that it is like playing Test cricket. Student life involves
sustaining oneself over a five-year period with equal energy and drive, and the ability
to handle countless exams, assignments, presentations and other commitments that
law school demands, not to mention co-curricular activities such as moot courts,
debates, and the like. Hence, it involves a great deal of patience and perseverance. I
must add that I have been enlightened about these characteristics more as a matter
of hindsight, and it is not as if I designed and implemented any specific plan or
strategy while in law school.

For the lack of any alternative methodology for assessing the competence and
capabilities of law students, grades do continue to matter a lot. But it is also
important to develop an all-round personality, which can be attained through co-
curricular activities. While performance in law school (academic or co-curricular)
matters to some extent, it often tends to have a limited bearing on one’s professional
progress and success, which might depend on other factors that a graduate may
imbibe after law school.

HAVE YOU BEEN IN TOUCH WITH YOUR BATCHMATES? IS IT TRUE

THAT ALL GRADUATES FROM NLSIU DO EXTREMELY WELL IN
THEIR CAREERS? DO YOU FIND DIFFERENCES BETWEEN
GRADUATES OF NLSIU, OTHER NLUS AND OTHER PREMIER LAW
INSTITUTES?

Apart from imparting legal skills, NLSIU helped me forge very strong relationships
with a wonderful group of batchmates (as well as seniors and juniors), which I
continue to cherish to date. It is true that the NLSIU alumni network is a tight-knit
one. In fact, my batch is celebrating its 20th year reunion at the end of this year,
where we will be spending a weekend together along with our families.
While there could be some differences between the graduates of NLSIU and other
premier law institutions in India, I do not believe that they are significant. Ultimately,
the top students from all of these institutions form part of the same crop, and have
been successful in similar ways. It might be the case that more number of students
from some law schools may have demonstrated a higher performance compared to
the others. Over the years, I have developed professional relationships with
graduates from several law schools around India. In my view, while the institutional
quality and background are important, it is the capabilities and determination of
individuals that matter more.

YOU JOINED AMSS EARLY ON AS AN ASSOCIATE. HOW WAS YOUR

JOURNEY FROM AN ASSOCIATE TO PARTNER? WAS IT MOSTLY
ABOUT LEGAL KNOWLEDGE, OR DID IT INCLUDE BUSINESS
DEVELOPMENT AS WELL?

My early years as an associate at AMSS involved gaining experience in corporate

transactions. I was fortunate not only to be working with a leading law firm in India
and its managing partner, Mr. Cyril Shroff, but I was also the beneficiary of an
unending flow of transactions following India’s economic liberalisation that witnessed
several novel legal issues being considered in-depth. Of course, being made a
Partner carries along with it, different demands, which include client management as
well as human resource management (that takes a great deal of people skills).

YOU MUST HAVE BEEN VERY YOUNG AS A PARTNER. AS A LAW

STUDENT, IT’S VERY DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE JOINING THE RANKS
OF A PARTNER IN JUST 5-6 YEARS OF WORK. WHAT ALL DOES IT
TAKE TO BECOME A PARTNER?

At the outset, technical skills do matter, i.e. the knowledge of the law within one’s
practice domain, which includes both substantive and procedural matters. In
addition, skills such as conflict resolution, problem solving and acting as a “trusted”
advisor to clients, are a hallmark of a competent partner. Then come other skills
such as business development, human resources, and even financial management.

IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A PERSON WHO IS NOT EXCEEDINGLY WELL

VERSED WITH BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT AND IS NOT GOOD AT
DRAWING CLIENTS TO GET PROMOTED TO THE RANKS OF A
PARTNER? WOULD IT TAKE MORE TIME?

It is ironical that while law schools teach the knowledge and skills pertaining to
matters of law, the other skills, such as business development, are required to be
developed by lawyers on the job. Some lawyers are excellent in technical legal skills,
but they either do not have the capabilities, or are uninterested in the
managerialaspects. In those scenarios, of course, there could be some constraints
when it comes to promotion. Ultimately, this could depend on the policies of
individual law firms. But, I do believe that there is always space for lawyers with good
technical skills, and law firms and legal practices may ignore them at their own peril.

WHEN DID YOU ACTUALLY FIND YOURSELF GETTING DRAWN

TOWARDS ACADEMICS?

This is a question I get asked all the time. When I was at AMSS, Bangalore, during
weekends,I used to co-teach a seminar course on Mergers & Acquisitions at NLSIU
along with Professor M.P.P. Pillai. The discussions in class,surrounding the
theoretical and policy-level issues on areas that I was closely connected with in
practice, attracted me towards taking up a full-time career in academia. Although I
embarked on an academic career with a view to teaching, I discovered along the
way that substantial emphasis is also placed on research and publications. I enjoy
this combination of teaching and research in the areas of corporate law, corporate
governance, mergers and acquisitions, and related subjects.
HOW HARD WAS THE DECISION OF LEAVING A WELL-
ESTABLISHED CAREER AS A PARTNER OF THE LARGEST LAW
FIRM IN THE COUNTRY, TO TAKE A PLUNGE INTO ACADEMICS?

I was quite determined about embarking on a career in academia. However, given

that I was leaving the profession after spending over a decade in it, many of my
colleagues and friends felt that I was more likely to flirt with academia for a couple of
years, and then promptly re-enter practice. But, that did not occur: I remain
committed to the legal academy, and have not felt the urge to return to practice. At
the same time, I continue to remain in touch with the profession through various
means that helps me stay up to date with developments in practice.

HOW DID YOU SELECT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW

AMONG OTHERS? WAS IT ANY SPECIFIC COMBINATION OF
MODULES THAT ATTRACTED YOU THERE?

I chose the New York University School of Law (NYU) due to its focus on some of
the key areas I was interested in, namely corporate, securities, and financial services
law. Moreover, located in the heart of New York City, it also has access to
professionals from leading law firms, accounting firms, and other financial
intermediaries, who would often visit the institution to teach, and also to participate in
seminars and conference.

WHAT WAS YOUR TOPIC OF RESEARCH FOR LL.M? WHY DID YOU
CHOOSE THAT SUBJECT FOR RESEARCH?
Although I did an LL.M by coursework, I was required to write research papers on a
couple of courses, which I found to be a valuable experience. In a seminar course
titled “Topics in Corporate and Securities Law”, I wrote a paper on the role of
independent directors in corporate governance. This has been a significant topic of
interest world-over, not least in India. This paper also acted as a stepping stone for
my PhD thesis on the topic subsequently at the National University of Singapore
(NUS). At NYU, in another seminar course titled “Financing Development”, I wrote a
paper on the use of the pari passu clause by lenders in sovereign debt documents,
to block the debtor countries from making payments as part of a sovereign debt
restructuring. This issue, as well, continues to hold sway till date, with litigation
pertaining to Argentina under this clause making headlines, especially as they have
been considered extensively by the US courts.

HOW DO YOU RECALL THE FACULTY AND FACILITIES? WHICH

OTHER UNIVERSITIES WOULD YOU RECOMMEND FOR SOMEONE
WHO CANNOT MAKE IT TO NYU?

I learnt considerably from my courses at NYU. Having practised Corporate Law in

India for several years, it was a wonderful opportunity for me to compare the Indian
law and practice, with those of other jurisdictions studied at NYU, including
Delaware. Some of the professors and their teaching methodologies have had a
significant impact on me, in that they have helped shape my own teaching
philosophy and style.Apart from NYU, there are several other leading law schools in
the US, UK, Singapore and Hong Kong, that have strong corporate and financial
services law offerings.

HOW DID YOU CHOOSE NUS FOR YOUR DOCTORAL RESEARCH?

TELL US ABOUT YOUR PH.D THESIS. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THAT
SUBJECT IN PARTICULAR?
When I was at NYU, I came to learn a lot about NUS, as there was a collaboration
between the two Universities for a joint LL.M programme. This was also consistent
with my desire to stay in the Asian region, and closer to India. Hence, after
consulting my classmate Arun Thiruvengadam, who was then teaching at NUS, I
decided to apply for the doctoral programme there. As mentioned earlier, my PhD
thesis dealt with the role of the independent directors in corporate governance,
wherein I examined board independence in the context of emerging economies such
as India and China, as it had previously been studied in the context of developed
markets such as the US and the UK, where the agency problems relating to
corporate governance were largely different. I chose that area in particular, as the
concept of independent directors has confounded academics for some time now,
with incomplete understanding of the utility of that institution in enhancing corporate
governance. The concept continues to hold importance in India even now, with
extensive codification in the Companies Act, 2013.

HAVING TAUGHT AT MANY UNIVERSITIES IN INDIA, HOW WOULD

YOU COMPARE IT WITH THE FACILITIES AND ENVIRONMENT THAT
NUS PROVIDES YOU? DO YOU FIND STARK DIFFERENCES IN
ADMINISTRATION BETWEEN SINGAPORE AND INDIA?

NUS provides an excellent environment for both teaching and research. It has a
diverse faculty and student body. While the LL.B students are mostly from
Singapore, the LL.M students are from several countries around the world (including
from far-flung areas such as Latin America), which makes teaching here truly global.
There are indeed perceptible differences in the administration between Singapore
and India. For example, the law school at NUS is situated within a larger University,
which is over 100 years old and therefore endowed with significant experience and
resources. On the other hand, the leading law schools in India are standalone
establishments that are relatively younger, with greater flexibility in determining their
own destinies.
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU MAY COME BACK TO INDIA TO TEACH?
DO YOU LOOK FORWARD TO THAT IN NEAR FUTURE? WHAT ALL
COULD PROBABLY COULD BE THE IMPEDIMENTS, IF AT ALL YOU
WISHED TO COME BACK?

Of course, it is hard to make predictions for the future, but for the present, I offer
short courses and guest lectures at various Indian law schools each year, which I
thoroughly enjoy. Even though I am currently based in Singapore, I continue to
remain closely connected with Indian legal education.

WHAT SUBJECTS ARE YOU CURRENTLY TEACHING? WHAT ARE

YOUR CURRENT RESEARCH INTERESTS? HAVE YOU INVOLVED
YOUR STUDENTS IN YOUR RESEARCH?

At NUS, I teach three courses. One is Company Law, a compulsory course for LL.B
students, that involves teaching Singapore law, which is similar to Indian company
law at a broad level (with both Singapore and Indian having originally inherited
English company law), but with significant differences when one drills down into the
details. The other two courses I teach are upper-level electives, namely Mergers and
Acquisitions (M&A) and Indian Business Law. Elective courses are attended by third
and fourth year LL.B students as well as LL.M students.

My research interests are also on similar lines as my teaching. While my work is

comparative in nature, I focus considerably on the laws of India and Singapore. I do
involve research students in my work. While most of the research assistants tend to
be NUS students (both LL.B and LL.M), I also often avail the services of students
across various Indian law schools, particularly when the research material for a
project is mostly available in India.
HAVING WON QUITE A FEW AWARDS AND HONOURS FOR
ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE AND TEACHING, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR
MESSAGE TO YOUNG PROFESSORS?

An academic career in law is an exciting one. It provides considerable freedom for

young professors to delve into areas of their interest, both in terms of teaching and
research. Several professors in India have established themselves as authorities in
their respective fields, thereby garnering wide acclaim. They are also sought after by
practitioners, policy-makers, and the Government. They have accomplished this
through extensive research and publication of their work in leading academic
journals, as well as through op-eds in the popular press that ensure a wider reach.
My advice to young professors would be to identify their interest areas, and then
build up domain expertise in those.

STUDENTS OFTEN COMPLAIN ABOUT HIGH-HANDEDNESS OF

FACULTY AND ADMINISTRATION IN INDIA, HOW DO YOU PROPOSE
WE EITHER FIND A SOLUTION TO IT, OR CHANGE OUR OWN
PERSPECTIVE?

As I have already mentioned, Indian legal education continues to be moving along a

steep learning-curve. The experimentation that began with the establishment of
NLSIU, continues in one form or another. Given this trajectory, the path is not likely
to be smooth. It would be presumptuous on my part to offer any solution, as the
circumstances are rather complex. However, the key would be for the administration,
faculty and students to work collectively to address various problems that are
currently being faced. To go back to an incident that occurred when I was a law
student, a proposal by the administration to raise tuition fees at NLSIU was met with
stiff resistance from students, resulting in a deadlock. However, following successive
rounds of negotiations between students and the administration, an acceptable
solution was found, and the institution marched forward. Constant engagement
between various constituencies within the legal education sector would be the key.

SHIFTING TO MOOT COURTS, HOW DOES ONE DRAFT A WINNING

MEMO? ACCORDING TO YOU, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
A GREAT AND AN AVERAGE MEMO?

A good memo is one that is well-researched and expressed clearly. The grasp of the
writer over the subject matter tends to be quite evident from its content and form. A
great memo is also one that is very convincing. Ultimately, even in practice, a judge
would decide a case based on (among other things) the written submissions of
counsel, which must be clear, cogent and persuasive (supported by authorities).

DO JUDGES ACTUALLY EXPECT MOOTERS TO KNOW EVERYTHING

ABOUT THE LAW, OR IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE AT PLAY, AS
WELL?

Successful mooting involves a combination of factors. Apart from knowledge of the

law relating to the subject matter of the moot, it is necessary to master the facts
(which often form the bone of contention). Thereafter, it is necessary to logically
structure the arguments, which must be presented clearly. More importantly, mooters
must be prepared to wriggle themselves out of a situation when they are caught off-
guard by the judges. They must be able to think on their feet. Patience is another
virtue that would come in handy in such situations.
LASTLY, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO PEOPLE WHO
WANT TO TAKE UP A CAREER IN TEACHING?

According to me, the idiom “Those who can’t do, teach” cannot be farther from the
truth. It is no longer true that teaching is the last resort for a graduate in India. The
academic world has attracted bright lawyers, and several excellent law students at
their very early days, who have indicated their interest in teaching,and followed their
single-minded pursuit towards attainment of their goals. Hence, I would encourage
law students to consider an academic career. From my own experience, I have
found academia to be extremely enriching and fulfilling.

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Rahul Bhattacharjee, Attorney – Middle

East, Schlumberger, on the role of a
Corporate Counsel in an MNC

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on August 3, 2015
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Rahul Bhattacharjee graduated from West Bengal National University of Juridical
Sciences (WBNUJS) in the year 2005. He was then recruited by the Development
Consultants – Kuljian Group, where he worked for two and a half years. He then
moved onto be an in-house counsel with Khadim India Ltd., where he again worked
for two and a half years. He then went on to join the Legal Counsel team of DSM
India, however, after a short stint of seven months, he finally shifted to his current job
with Schlumberger. After working at both the Delhi and Mumbai offices, with a PQE
of ten years Rahul has been now promoted to the post of an Attorney – Middle East
and works out of the Dubai office currently.

In this interview, he tells students about:

 The importance of the Cumulative Grade Points Average (CGPA)

 Making career choices when opportunities arise
 What the work of an in-house counsel is like
 The advantages of joining an in-house counsel team

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR

READERS? PLEASE SHARE YOUR ACADEMIC AND PROFESSIONAL
BACKGROUND.

I would like to introduce myself as an in-house lawyer who views his role as a
business enabler. I have always worked in-house in companies, and through my
experience of just over a decade now, have realised that one’s understanding of the
business and its operations is of the utmost importance. I completed my degree in
law from NUJS in 2005, and was privileged to be a member of the first graduating
batch from that institution. The followings questions would cover my career
progression.

TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD, YOUR HOMETOWN AND

YOUR PRE-GRADUATE LIFE AS WELL.
This one is a bit tricky!! My father was employed with the State Bank of India, and he
had a transferable job. Hence, by the time I had finished my Standard VIII, I had
studied in 4 different schools, having been through 5 transfers. Thereafter, in 1996.
my parents took the tough call of settling the family in Kolkata without my father
joining us; he ultimately got a transfer to Kolkata only in 2001-2002 (i.e. after I had
joined NUJS). Hence, I cannot call any particular town my hometown. However,
during the period up to 1996, I had spent the maximum time (9 years) in Bhagalpur,
Bihar, and thereafter settled down in Kolkata and studied through Standard IX to XII
in a school called Saifee Hall, situated on Park Lane, in the vicinity of Park Street. So
currently, I call Kolkata my hometown.

THE CAREER OF A LAWYER IN INDIA IS STILL JUST A BACKUP

OPTION FOR MOST STUDENTS. WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO
CHOOSE LAW AS A CAREER?

I think the choice of taking up law as a career came more vicariously to me. My elder
brother had wished to study law from NLS (he had read about the institute in its early
days, but unfortunately, could not prepare for, or take the test himself, for want of
information. Would you believe that? Those were the days before the internet). I was
luckier than my brother in that respect. His dream kind of passed on to me.

I always had a knack for argumentative thinking, or so I’d like to believe. Though I
have never been a very good public speaker, I did have a knack for clarity and
precision in written communication, and so people who mattered, acknowledged me.
Somehow, the engineering or medical professions did not appeal much to me. I was
a decent student, not great. I did well in the subjects that I liked. Though I had taken
up science in my ISC, I was convinced by then that I’d like to do law. The range of
career choices that an education in law provides, also helped me in my decision.
I took the entrance tests for NUJS and NLS, and honestly, without much
preparation. I guess I got lucky getting through NUJS!!

KINDLY ACQUAINT US WITH YOUR COLLEGE LIFE AND YOUR

ASPIRATIONS IN COLLEGE. WHAT ACTIVITIES WERE YOU
INVOLVED IN, APART FROM THE REGULAR ACADEMIC
CURRICULUM?

Well, my indulgences in the first year in law school were anything but academic. I
had a lot of fun with new found friends and freedom. That did take a hit on the
CGPA, which did not quite mend dramatically over the next four years, though I did
have fun and thoroughly enjoyed. I have no regrets, since I made the best of friends
for life.

It was second year onwards that I paid a little more attention to academics. I think I
always did well in subjects that I liked, which typically were those which required
more logical thinking and less mugging up. Invariably, the core arts papers were not
my cup of tea. Outside the curriculum, I enjoyed research oriented work. I had
worked on a couple of projects associated with two of NUJS schools – one involving
a research for drafting of the Economic Offence Code (School of Criminal Justice &
Administration),and another involving Farmers and Breeders Rights in relation to
Valuation of IPR for HYV Seeds (School of Economic & Business Laws).

I was also an active participant in the activities of the Legal Aid Society, and there I
found that unlike my limitations in public speaking, I could act in front of an audience.
I participated in some plays for social awareness as an actor.

I also took keen interest in organising and student affairs. During my days in the
University, through the years, I had served as a member of the first Mess Committee
responsible for setup of a full-time mess in the hostel, as the Co-convenor of the
Library Committee, and as the Secretary to the Student Juridical Association, the
NUJS Students’ body.

WHAT KIND OF INTERNSHIPS DID YOU DO WHILE YOU WERE A

STUDENT? ARE THERE ANY REMARKABLE EXPERIENCES DURING
YOUR INTERNSHIPS THAT SHAPED YOUR CAREER CHOICES
LATER?

Interestingly, for a very long time, I had actively contemplated pursuing the career of
a litigation lawyer or counsel. I did my internships with the Litigation division of one of
the oldest law firms in Kolkata, named Sanderson & Morgans, and in the following
years, in the Chambers of Mr. Krishnan Venugopal, (now) Senior Advocate and Mr.
Abhrajit Mitra, Advocate. The internship at Sandersons’ was more a passive one,
considering I had just finished one year in the university. However, I obtained some
first-hand impression about court proceedings, and the procedures involved in
litigation. My internships with Mr. Venugopal and Mr. Mitra were more intensive. I
researched on issues involved in the highest level litigation at the Supreme Court,
Tribunals and the High Courts. Researching on case laws and preparing notes for
arguments gave me a real insight into the nuances that play a critical role in the
adjudication of matters. These experiences have held me in good stead even in my
career, though I eventually did not get into a litigation practice.

HOW DID YOU FARE IN YOUR ACADEMICS AT NUJS? HOW WAS

THE ACADEMIC PRESSURE? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT EXCELLENT
CGPA IS THE KEY TO ALL SUCCESS?

As stated above, my first year’s exploits did not help my academic scores! I ended
up with a CGPA which would have placed me somewhere in the middle of my class;
all in all, I would like to believe that I was an average, or just above average student.
I truly believe the CGPA has hardly any role to play in your professional life.
However, I would like to make myself clear here – I do not mean academics have no
role. You see, CGPA is not always reflective of one’s academic abilities. One should
comprehend the core fundamentals, like the understanding of the legal framework of
the country, the basics of laws of contracts or rather commercial laws, which are
critical to your survival. When a fresh graduate starts working, no one expects him to
know “the law”, but one needs to develop the skill to ask the right question and know
where/how to find the answers. The CGPA can help on one front for sure though,
that is creating opportunities at the beginning of your career. For the potential head
hunters, this is one of the differentiating factors. A good CGPA does imply a
student’s commitment, which everyone values.

AFTER GRADUATION, YOU JOINED AS THEIR LEGAL ASSISTANT

MANAGER FOR THE KULJIAN GROUP. HOW DID YOU SECURE
YOUR APPOINTMENT? HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR
EXPERIENCE WORKING THERE?
I was interviewed by the Development Consultants – Kuljian Group through an off-
campus placement conducted by the NUJS Recruitment Committee. I joined as an
entry level lawyer (Executive – Legal) for the group reporting into the Executive
Director – Corporate Affairs, who headed the function. It was a steep learning curve.
At the beginning it was a slow supervised induction into the matters handled by the
department, and thereafter, with experience I got into more independent
responsibilities. During my stint there, I was exposed to the drafting and reviewing of
a lot of commercial contracts, advising on new business initiatives and handling
litigation. This was a foundation of sorts which gave me the perspective about the
role of an in-house lawyer. During my tenure, I was promoted to the position of
Assistant Manager – Legal.

THEREAFTER, YOU LEFT KULJIAN GROUP AND JOINED KHADIM

INDIA LTD. AS A LEGAL MANAGER. WHAT PROMPTED THIS
SWITCHOVER? HOW DID THE APPOINTMENT TAKE PLACE? WHAT
COMPRISED YOUR WORK AT KHADIMS?
As much as I learned from my first job, there was a sense of stagnation in terms of
the range of issues I was handling. There was, of course, the incentive of a monetary
benefit associated with a change of job. Khadim’s is a well-known brand in the
eastern part of India, and as a business, it is a very profitable and prominent
organization. I secured an interview with Khadim’s through their HR function tracking
my resume from a job site. The role was very interesting, and offered a mid-level
seniority, where I’d have been expected to take responsibilities of actions of others in
the team. For a person with about 2.5 years’ experience, this was a good challenge.
The monetary terms suited me and I decided to take the plunge.

The experience at Khadim’s was a really valuable one which shaped my career
beyond the learning phase, and took it to the phase of being a performer. The role
here was more integrated withthe business. I could see my work product shaping
decision making, and that can give you an incomparable sense of satisfaction. I got a
lot of exposure in commercial transactions, company law, property transactions, IPR,
and capital markets, to name a few. I could also add value to the functioning of the
team by contributing to the preparation of SOPs, and standardising commercial
agreement templates.

YOU THEREAFTER LEFT KHADIMS TO START WORKING AT DSM

INDIA AS THEIR LEGAL COUNSEL. WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO KEEP
CHANGING YOUR JOB SO FREQUENTLY? WHAT DOES DSM DO
AND WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR WORK THERE?

The two biggest motivators for job changes(and I believe this is largely universal),are
one’s quest for increasing and developing one’s skillsets, and the chances to
increase one’s remuneration (actual and potential). DSM was the first job I opted for
outside my hometown Kolkata. DSM is a multi-national organization, and the role
would potentiallyincrease my horizon as a professional to legal issues not yet
encountered by me, and also provide me with an exposure to cross-border
transactions.

AFTER HAVING WORKED WITH DSM FOR 7 MONTHS, YOU JOINED

SCHLUMBERGER– THE WORLD’S LARGEST OILFIELD SERVICES
COMPANY AS THEIR SENIOR CONTRACTS ANALYST. HOW DID THE
SWITCH FROM DSM TAKE PLACE? DID YOU GET AN OFFER OR DID
YOU APPLY FOR SCHLUMBERGER?

Honestly, I had not expected to leave DSM so soon, and if the opportunity with
Schlumberger had not arisen, I might not have. I became aware of the opportunity
through a classmate of mine from NUJS, who in turn had come to know of the same
thorough someone he knew in Schlumberger. The factors that prompted me to apply
for the job were the fact that Oil & Gas is by far one of the world’s largest and most
profitable industry, where Schlumberger was a leader in its domain; Schlumberger is
renowned across the globe as a truly multi-cultural organization which strives to give
its deserving employees an international career, and most importantly, the role was a
very focussed role of Contracts. I would like to explain the importance of the role in
my deciding to switch job. Unlike many other organizations, Schlumberger has
Contracts as an independent sub-function within the Legal Organization, which is
focussed on reviewing and negotiating the contracts for the company. With a little
over 5 years’ experience behind me, this role offered me a different level of
professional expertise in the domain of commercial contracts and negotiation. The
role also meant working very closely with the business, thus ensuring closer
integration with the organizational goals. I started off in Gurgaon as a Senior
Contracts Analyst, taking responsibility for contracts that the company had
signed/negotiated with Clients based in the North and North-East of India.
BEFORE MOVING TO DUBAI THIS FEBRUARY, YOU HAVE WORKED
AS A GEOMARKET CONTRACTS MANAGEROF INDIA, BANGLADESH
& SRI LANKA AT SCHLUMBERGER [MUMBAI OFFICE] FOR MORE
THAN ONE YEAR. WHAT ARE THE RESPONSIBILITIES YOU WERE
ENTRUSTED WITH DURING YOUR STINT AT THE MUMBAI OFFICE?

After a couple of years in the previous role, I was promoted to the position of
Geomarket Contracts Manager, heading the function for the businesses in India,
Bangladesh & Sri Lanka. In this role, I led a team of 6 contracts and bid resource
persons with the core objective of minimising the operational liabilities and
commercial risks for the company in its business contracts. My job involved
reviewing tender and contracts terms along with my team, to highlight potential
exposures, suggesting changes to those terms, and advising on and participating in
negotiations on those terms along with the operations and business verticals.

WHAT LED TO THE SHIFT TO DUBAI OFFICE AND THIS

PROMOTION?

(After moving to Dubai office of Schlumberger, Rahul is working as an Attorney and

providing legal support to operations in various countries across the Middle East
region.)
As I had mentioned above, Schlumberger as an organisation believes in providing
opportunities for an international career to its employees. Based on my career
preferences, performance and company’s business needs, I was offered this
position.
OUR READERS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR CURRENT
WORK PROFILE. PLUS, WHAT IS A TYPICAL WORKDAY LIKE AT
YOUR OFFICE?

The Attorney’s role is to support the Legal Counsels, who head the legal function in
the respective business units, and to provide legal support and advice to the
company’s management. Unlike the Contracts role, the Legal function cannot be
defined by a boundary. My job involves advising the management on various issues
on laws ranging from employment and immigration issues to corporate laws,
advising on strategic contracts, advisising on IPR related business contract
provisions, ensuring ethics compliance, supporting claims and defence of claims
(litigation or arbitrations), and compliance with statutory regulations, and so on.

WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE WORK ENVIRONMENT AT

SCHLUMBERGER IS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM OTHER
COMPANIES WHERE YOU HAVE WORKED?

An emphatic yes!!

Schlumberger is a truly multi-cultural organization with no favouritism on the basis of

nationality, at any level of management whatsoever. It’s very usual for one to be
working with a group of people having varying nationalities. As an organization, it is
not hierarchical in the typical traditional sense, and everyone is given due respect for
their individual roles, and also expected to take responsibility for his/her actions.

YOU HAVE OVER TEN YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN CONTRACT

DRAFTING & NEGOTIATION, CONTRACTUAL RISK MANAGEMENT &
MITIGATION, GENERAL LEGAL AFFAIRS, R&D, LIAISON,
CORPORATE CONSULTING ETC. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE
YOUR EXPERIENCE SO FAR?

Well, no matter what one does in his/her career, it is a never ending learning curve.
What I have learnt over the years is that it is critical to be able to judge the business
needs of an organization, and you cannot do that without understanding the
business operation itself. So, it is essential that you are inquisitive enough to
understand that. Further, with the in-house role, unlike as an external counsel (read
law firm), you cannot stop at advising. The management expects you to participate in
decision making, hence your advice is expected to be a firm one, with clear focus on
probable consequences of an action taken by the company based on your advice.

MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT WORKING AS AN IN-HOUSE

COUNSEL AFFORDS MORE WORK-LIFE BALANCE AND IS LESS
DEMANDING. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS?

I do not agree that the job requirements in an in-house role and that in a law firm
necessitates such a distinction. From my experience, my work-life balance has been
fair over the years. There have been occasions where I have had to burn the
“midnight oil” for an issue but that is not as frequent as I hear it is in the laws firms in
India. I understand the question comes from the perspective of a culture in the Indian
law firms where there is an absolute indifference to an individual’s personal space,
and often spending an abnormal amount of time in office is something one brags
about. That, with all due respect, is neither professional nor healthy. If you look at the
trend in the global sphere, the suggestion that you have made in the question, does
not hold true. As professionals, you hold utmost importance to the organization that
you work for, and your responsibilities and organizational needs at a given point of
time determine the time you can take out for yourself and your family. If that balance
is lop sided for extended periods of time, that implies inefficiency, personal or
organizational, and has direct consequences on the productivity of an individual.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO WORK FOR LAW FIRMS ANYTIME IN FUTURE?

That is something I have not given much thought. Come to think of it, that seems
unlikely, owing to the fact that the role in a law firm would require some different
skillsets and mindset, than those I have spent 10 years to acquire. Logically, I am a
better fit at an in-house role, and that is where my experience would count more.

LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE FOR
LAW STUDENTS?

Primarily, enjoy the experience and build relationships, this is probably your last
chance to make friends for a lifetime. Develop the basics on the academic front,
since if that helps to push your CGPA, that’s an added premium. Indulge in the co-
curricular or extra-curricular activities that interests you, not what makes sense to
stitch together a career. How your career will shape depends on a lot of variables
that you cannot control, hence enjoying what you are good at will help you build your
personalities more than anything. Choose your internships well, you will learn a lot
more there than in your classes. Most of all, once you are in the professional world,
there are no substitutes for hard work. Have the humility to learn, hunger to know,
and drive to deliver.

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INTERVIEWS

Simar Singh, LAMP Fellow, on all about

the LAMP Fellowship
ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on July 30, 2015

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Simar Singh studied law from Amity Law School, Centre-II, Noida and has graduated
recently. During his years of law school he has interned under Adv. Guru Dutt
Sharma who was the Additional Standing Counsel for Government of India in the
Dwarka District Court and also Adv. V. K Aggarwal who was also the former Law
Secretary. Simar also won the Achiever Award for displaying leadership qualities by
the University’s Founder President. He is also a fellow of LAMP (Legislative
Assistants to Members of Parliament).

In this exclusive conversation with Simar, we talk about –

 His journey through Amity Law School, Noida and the internship experiences.
 Achieving the Achiever Award for displaying leadership qualities by his
University.
 Receiving a letter of appreciation for efforts and conduct in International
Seminar on Global Environment and Disaster Management from Hon’ble
Justice U Tha Htay, Judge Supreme court of Myanmar.
 Being chosen as a LAMP fellow (Legislative Assistants to Members of
Parliament).
 The work performed by a LAMP fellow and the learning acquired from it.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS

WHO ARE MOSTLY LAW ASPIRANTS, LAW STUDENTS AND YOUNG
LAWYERS?

I am Simar Pal Singh. I am a recent Law graduate from Amity Law School, Centre-II,
Noida. I am a very passionate reader, especially biographies and autobiographies of
different lawyers and eminent jurists. I also like to participate in debates and
discussions. I am a LAMP Fellow for year 2015-16.

TELL OUR READERS A BIT ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD AND PRE-

COLLEGE LIFE AS WELL AS EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND. DO YOU
HAVE LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY WHO MOTIVATED YOU TO
PURSUE A CAREER IN LEGAL FIELD?

I was born into a family of Government Servants. Both my parents were in the
paramilitary force C.R.P.F and therefore my childhood was all about seeing one or
the other parent going to a different State away from the family and serving the
country. I did my schooling from CRPF Public School, New Delhi. I had always been
an average student in academics but was always interested in sports activities. I was
in the football team of my school and won many inter school tournaments. I was also
a National Level Athlete and represented my school and my State in various sports
meets and won many medals in 100 m and 400 m races.

There were no lawyers in my family but my father did his LLB while working and
used to tell us about his subjects. He never pursued law as a career but his talks on
law as a subject and its importance in our society did intrigue me. I think this was the
trigger which got embedded deep inside me and eventually got activated after my
12th and that’s why when I decided to pursue a career in law, my parents were very
supportive.

WHAT INCLINED YOU TOWARDS THE FIELD OF LEGAL

EDUCATION? CAN YOU RECALL ANY SPECIFIC INCIDENT THAT
MADE YOU CHOOSE LAW AS A CAREER?

After scoring well in my X boards, I took science stream on the advice of my family
and teachers who according to the set convention told me to go for engineering.
During my 11th and 12th I took coaching for getting into a good engineering college
but It is a fact that it was all about just going with the flow and not accessing that
whether I was actually interested in becoming an engineer or not.

After 12th, most of my classmates took admission in engineering, B.Sc., hotel

management, etc. I also joined the segment and, after clearing the entrance for Hotel
Management got myself admitted in hotel management course in IHM Chandigarh
and I think this was my life changing incident. It was my second day in IHM and it
suddenly dawned on me that this is not the place where I belong. My parents have
served this country all throughout their life and therefore I too have to be in a
profession where I can serve the system and the country. This is when I thought of
pursuing LLB.

YOU GRADUATED FROM AMITY LAW SCHOOL, CENTRE-II, NOIDA IN

THE YEAR 2015. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE
AS A STUDENT ASPIRING TO BE A PROFESSIONAL THERE?

With no prior family background in law and practice, I would say the initial journey in
the law school was little strenuous. When your batch mates know where they will
intern and work during their course work and you on the other hand have absolutely
no pointer as to how to cover up with them. And since I was from science
background, I also had trouble in adapting the writing pattern for my law exams.

But as it is said, with plethora of problems comes the opportunity to overcome them.
One simply has to keep trying. After I realised this, things became much better. I
studied hard and not just the prescribed course books but various books by foreign
authors to gain insight on a particular subject, various biographies of those famous in
our field to acquaint myself with working of the greats and current legal judgments to
keep myself updated on the contemporary issues in our field. With sustained hard
work and support of college, I was able to grasp on my subjects and do justice to
them. It was a long and challenging journey where I started as a complete stranger
and ended up discerning the calling for my life.
HOW INSTRUMENTAL WAS AMITY LAW SCHOOL, CENTRE-II IN
SHAPING UP YOUR LEGAL CAREER. DID YOU GROW AN INTEREST
IN POLICY MAKING IN LAW SCHOOL ITSELF.

Since ALS-II was the very first platform of my legal career, I’d say that it had a key
role in moulding me and my career. I had very encouraging teachers who were
always there to guide me and support me in my choices. I constantly, used to take
advice from them which turned out to be invaluable in making career selection. I had
commendable batch mates some of whom turned out to be my very good friends and
healthy competitors who always strived me to do better. I wouldn’t say that I had an
interest in the policy making per say in the college itself because I was completely
focussed on law but I always did make an effort to be continuously in touch with the
happenings in our country through newspapers and to keep a track on all the news
bills that were being introduced as the process was part of our law itself.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A LAW STUDENT AT ALS.

Till my first year, I was also like the others a mere observer, watching activities
happening but too nervous to come forward. But from second year I guess I grew
into my fears and decided to take a leap towards them. I started participating in
various moots and debates, representing my college all over India and before I knew
it, I was assigned the responsibility of looking over these activities as the head of
various societies. Participating in the various moots was always fun. It used to be like
a trip with friends, exploring new colleges and meeting some of the best legal minds
from all over the country. I think, public speaking and debating are very important for
a student today especially a law student to gain confidence and come out of his shell
but it is not the only important thing. I personally know a lot of brilliant law students
who never did any mooting but are still very good in their arguments so it depends
on the person.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR INTERNSHIPS AND WORK

EXPERIENCES IN THE LAW FIELD.

My first internship was with Advocate Guru Dutt Sharma who was the Additional
Standing Counsel for Government of India in the Dwarka District Court. Initially I
simply used to observe the court proceedings and eventually I started reading out
cases, preparing their briefs and following them up in the hearings. It turned out to be
an illuminating experience as I saw the practical side of legal profession for the first
time and realized that this was what I meant to do all along. The pleadings, the
arguments and the decorum of a court, all of it captivated me and I did my internship
with such dedication and enthusiasm that I was offered a part time employment by
the Counsel to assist him with the cases which continued for three years of my law
college where I saw myself being transformed into an Advocate much before my
graduation.

I also interned with Advocate Dr. V. K Aggarwal who was also the former Law
Secretary and had drafted the Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 where I got the
first-hand knowledge on arbitration proceedings and their conduct. I observed the
proceedings of various arbitrations, prepared briefs on various cases and performed
extensive legal research on SEBI Regulations, Telecom Laws and Company Laws.
But most importantly, I got the opportunity to gain prodigious knowledge about
Arbitration as a subject from V K sir.

TELL US ABOUT BEING AWARDED THE ACHIEVER AWARD, AND

YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH JUSTICE U THA HTAY.

(Simar has two major achievements namely Achiever Award for displaying
leadership qualities by the University’s Founder President in the presence of Hon’ble
Chancellor and Vice Chancellor of University and a letter of appreciation for efforts
and conduct in International Seminar on Global Environment and Disaster
Management from Hon’ble Justice U Tha Htay, Judge Supreme Court of Myanmar.)
I was deeply obliged with the fact that I was bestowed with that award and that my
University thought I was worthy of it. After all the great learning, valuable mentors in
the form of teachers, wonderful friends and many good memories, I owe Amity Law
School II a lot and this award is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that my
efforts and achievements have been supported and honoured by my college.
Experience of college is one of the paramount experiences that one goes through life
and for me my college journey has been simply astounding.

My experience with Hon’ble Justice U Tha Htay was extremely enriching and
enlightening. I was chosen to represent my University in this seminar and after a
personal interaction with all of us, fortunately, the organizers found me competent to
assist Hon’ble Justice U Tha Htay during his stay in the conference. I assisted him
with his seminar briefs and meeting schedules throughout the seminar after which I
was given a souvenir from Myanmar and a Letter of Appreciation for my work from
the Hon’ble Justice himself which was a rare and privileged honour for me.

BEING A LAMP (LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANTS TO MEMBERS OF

PARLIAMENT) FELLOW IS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT INDEED. WHAT
ALL DID YOU HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO GET SELECTED?

Before answering this I like to share my gratitude to my previous faculty Dr. Sam
Abraham. He was the person who pushed me to fill LAMP application and made me
believe that I can get through this.

In order to get selected, I had filled in my form with due diligence and made sure that
I stick to the word limit that I was asked for. Once my application was accepted I was
called for the personal interview before the panel three experts. For this I made sure
that I speak only what I know and remained calm and confident throughout the whole
interview even when I did not know the answer to any question.

TELL US ABOUT THE SOP YOU SUBMITTED FOR THE LAMP

FELLOWSHIP?
I did not prepare any SoP in advance and had filled my form spontaneously so I
don’t have my SoP exactly but in that I had broadly mentioned that as a lawyer we
generally see how Courts makes use of our existing laws to deliver justice. Till now I
had seen law getting declared, but this fellowship would get me the experience as to
how law and legislation is actually born and how the legislature of largest democracy
in the world works. Further from this fellowship I intend to get insight the working
government mechanism since it is directly responsible to our parliament.

HOW DOES ONE APPLY FOR THE LAMP FELLOWSHIP? TELL OUR
READERS ABOUT THE PROCESS, REQUIREMENTS AND FINALLY
YOUR SUGGESTIONS TO OUR READERS WHO ASPIRE TO BECOME
A LAMP FELLOW?

To apply for LAMP, one has to be very vigilant. The online application for this
fellowship opens around the starting of year and it is open for around 20 -25 days.
One can find the link of application on LAMP website. Any person who is of age
below 25 years can apply for this fellowship provided he is a graduate. My
suggestion to anyone who wants to become a LAMP fellow is that keep your article
on policy issue ready in advance. Also keep asking yourself that why you actually
want to pursue this fellowship because in the SoP you should write what you actually
intend and not what will constitute a right or good answer (There is no good or right
answer). For interview I would suggest that the aspirant should know what they have
written in their application form, few basic knowledge on the structure of parliament
and current affairs.

LAMP FELLOWSHIP PROVIDES AN EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY TO

INTERACT WITH LEGISLATORS AT A PERSONAL LEVEL, AND TO
UNDERSTAND THE POLICY PROCESS. WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED
IN YOUR STINT AS AN LAMP FELLOW?

Well LAMP fellowship has just started and I feel each day is new opportunity to learn
and this is the ultimate objective of this fellowship. You learn and experience things
which you don’t know and which you can never experience in your normal routine
work. I have learned to be more responsible and now I know that unlike the
judgmental view, Hon’ble Member of Parliament actually works a lot.

TELL US ABOUT WORKING WITH YOUR MP. WHAT IS THE

EXPERIENCE LIKE? PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE KIND OF WORK A
LAMP FELLOW IS REQUIRED TO DO IN A TYPICAL WORKDAY.

I won’t be able to tell you the name. However the experience has been extremely
delightful and knowledgeable. The work of LAMP fellow is nowhere strictly defined or
codified. He is there to assist his Hon’ble Member for the work related to
parliamentary affairs. In a typical day when Parliament is in session, he has to go
through around 6-7 newspapers for getting updates on current affairs of country. He
has to read each of the documents tabled in parliament and then prepare briefs
about them. Further he draft’s starred, unstarred and supplementary questions for
his allotted Hon’ble member which could be asked to the government. Preparation of
Private Member bill and researching on topics on which the Hon’ble member has to
speak in parliament is also the part of the job.

The work is slightly different when parliament is not in session. Here the work is
mostly related to research for the policy issues which your member is interested in,
attending various conferences, seminar, committee meetings etc.

DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS TO PURSUE HIGHER EDUCATION IN THE

FUTURE?

Yes I am planning to pursue my higher education from a foreign university after the
completion of this fellowship, most likely in the public policy.

IS THERE ANY MESSAGE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH OUR

READERS?

My only message to all would that do whatever you like with utmost sincerity. There
is not just one path that is right as prescribed and you don’t have to follow what
others are doing. In fact, most of the times, the path that is less travelled often leads
to the most fulfilling and fruitful journey.

FINALLY TELL US IN WHICH SPECIFIC ROLE YOU WOULD LIKE TO

SEE YOURSELF THE ROLE OF A LAWYER, POLICYMAKER OR A
REFORMIST OF THE SOCIETY WE LIVE IN.

Well why not in all three. I would love to keep my roots as a lawyer first and then I
wish to contribute my experience in policy making. I believe if I can discharge my
previous mentioned roles honestly then surely the third role of reformist will get
fulfilled itself.

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Manojna Yeluri, Founder, Artistik

License, on IPR awareness and LL.M in
Media and IPR from UCLA

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on July 29, 2015
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Manojna Yeluri is a graduate of the 2010 batch of National Academy of Legal
Studies and Research University (NALSAR). She started working at the Bangalore
office of Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff& Co. (AMSS), right after
graduating. She soon left her job to pursue her Masters in Entertainment, Media and
Intellectual Property Law at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), in the
year 2011.

Since returning, she has founded Artistik License, an organisation specialising in

the rights of artists, entrepreneurs and other creative professionals. She is also a
Business Development Consultant at Vahura, a legal recruitment firm, and this year,
she held the post of Content Curator and Co-ordinator at Construkt Festival 2015.
In this interview, Manojna opens up about:

 What made her choose to pursue Entertainment and Media Law, despite
having a job at the largest law firm, AMSS;
 The application process to UCLA, as well as the importance of a Statement of
Purpose (SoP);
 Her work experience at Artistik License, Vahura and ConstruktFestival 2015.

WHATMADE YOU CHOOSE LAW AS YOUR PROFESSION? IS THERE

ANYONE ELSE IN YOUR FAMILY WHO WORKS IN THE LEGAL
FIELD?

To be fair, pursuing a career in law was not my first choice. Growing up, I was led to
believe that I could pursue a career in any field so long as I worked hard at it and
made a good living from it. By the time I decided to give law school a shot, I had
already thought of becoming a biologist (a thought I abandoned after my 10th
standard experience with Chemistry and Physics) and later, I sincerely wanted to
pursue a career in Sociology and Psychology. Things didn’t quite work out the way I
planned, which just goes to show you that you can’t always foresee and plan for
everything. Following my 12th standard Board Exams, I ended up moving to
Bangalore because of my father’s job, and during a very very brief stint at Mount
Carmel College, decided that perhaps law school would provide me the kind of
opportunities I wanted, particularly in the realm of Humanities. My father and
grandfather (my dad’s father) are both law graduates who did not practice, but ended
up using their legal knowledge in their careers as Government officials. My other
grandfather (my mum’s dad) is a retired Police officer, who has always had a strong
love for criminal law. I do have family in the legal profession – specifically my cousins
and my father’s uncle (an astute man and a retired Judge),who have all made, and
are continuing to make an impact in the legal world through their own efforts and
contributions.

For all practical purposes though, I really am a first generation lawyer in my tiny
nuclear family.

WHAT WAS LIFE LIKEAS A LAW STUDENT AT NALSAR? HOW DID

YOUR FIVE YEARS IN THE UNIVERSITY INFLUENCE YOUR
PERSONAL GROWTH?

My years at NALSAR are definitely some of the most eventful and insightful, and I
pretty much carry memories and lessons from my time at law school, into everything
I do. When I was studying at NALSAR, things were a bit different – we were a lot
more interested in actually meeting one another and since we were so far away from
thecity (nearly 35 kms away) and living on a student budget, I think many of us found
ourselves more deeply involved in campus life than we expected to be. For me, it
was a wonderful and scary time, since it was the first time I was staying in a hostel,
but any hesitations I had were eradicated thanks to the friendships Imade – some of
which have evolved into strong relationships that I turn to in times of joy and crisis.

One of the most important lessons I learnt in NALSAR is that life is what you make of
it. As individuals, many of us have access to several opportunities, however,there
are only a few who choose to truly make the most of them. Looking back, there are a
few things Iwish I had done, and there were many batchmates, seniors and juniors
who displayed enthusiasm, initiative and creativity that I never thought was possible
– so I have to say that law school can be quite an inspiring place so long as you
know where and who to look to.

As an institution, NALSAR offers its students a wide array of opportunities, but then
again, as I mentioned earlier, it’s upto you to make the most of it. Besides my time
on campus, I also ended up learning a great deal about myself thanks to a Student
Exchange Programme I took part in just as I entered my third year of law school. I
had a blast at Griffith University, Brisbane and it was really a professor there and his
courses that sowed the seeds for my fascination with entertainment law.

DID YOU TAKE PART IN MOOT COURT COMPETITIONS? HOW

IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK ARE SUCH COMPETITIONS FOR
GETTING ACCEPTANCE FOR MASTERS IN THE USA?

I was not a mooter. I’ve admired mooting, but only from a distance. In my
experience, mooting requires a skill set and an emotional endurance that I’m not
sure I had, or was really interested in developing. When I was in law school, I
remember hearing that conferences and publications were far more important than
Moot court competitions when it came to applying for a Masters, however as we all
know, that’s not always true. Moot court competitions help develop certain qualities
that are very important to a career in law, however, as is the case with everything,
I’m not entirely sure that there’s a fixed formula that states that Moot courts or
conferences might considerably increase one’s chances of admission into a Masters
program anywhere – I think what matters is ensuring that one’s Statement of
Purpose is tight, sincere and clear.
AT A TIME WHEN MOST PEOPLE PRIMARILY FOCUS EITHER ON
LITIGATION OR ON CORPORATE LAW, WHAT TURNED YOU TO
ENTERTAINMENT, MEDIA AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAW?

It’s funny that I embraced my fascination for Entertainment law and IPR only after I
left law school, since I might have been able to do more while I was at NALSAR. I
did bite the bullet and make the initial foray into the world of corporate law for a very
brief period of time. Isat for recruitment and was picked up by AMSS (Bangalore)
and believe me when I say that at the time, Iwas overjoyed and excited because I
thought “Hey! My life is set now”. Shortly after joining AMSS, I found myself
increasingly reading up on Entertainment law and IPR and when finally my curiosity
couldn’t take it anymore, I chose to leave to pursue a Masters in either Entertainment
or Media law. It wasn’t a very easy decision though – working in corporate law brings
with it, its set of privileges, like a solid income and respect, and foregoing that,
especially when you’re a fresher in the job market, seems a tad bit risky. However, I
did receive a great deal of support from my folks, particularly my mom, who really
helped me during such a difficult transition.

WERE YOUR INTERNSHIPS MOSTLY RELATED TO MEDIA/IPR LAW?

WHICH WAS THE MOST ENRICHING INTERNSHIP EXPERIENCE FOR
YOU?

Most of my internships were not consciously oriented towards Media/IPR law

because all through law school, I had convinced myself that I was probably going to
become a corporate lawyer. I had interned in almost every holiday break and
because I always wanted to keep my options open and balanced, I ensured I did one
corporate internship followed by one NGO internship. My most memorable corporate
law internships were at JSA, Bombay and Luthra&Luthra, Bombay because of the
kind of experiences and learning that happened. With respect to non-corporate
internships, my internship at Majlis, Bombay (run by Flavia Agnes) and Loksatta,
Hyderabad were instrumental in teaching me a lot about the interaction between law
and content-creation. My serious Entertainment/IPR law internship only happened
years later during my time at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), at an
independent film studio (NuMedia), run by a lawyer. Nestled in the middle of
Hollywood, it was a pretty cool way to learn about entertainment lawyers and the
industry.

HOW DID YOU CHOOSE TO PURSUE YOUR MASTERS AT

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, LOS ANGELES?

The University of California, Los Angeles or UCLA is considered the best school in
the world for the Entertainment, Media and IPR law programme. To be honest, that’s
one of the major reasons I wanted to pursue a masters there. I had applied to two
other schools that year – SOAS and LSE, and I was fortunate enough to have gotten
accepted into both but my heart was set on UCLA because of how well structured its
Entertainment law program and department was.

I think that it’s always important to choose to pursue a Masters or any degree at an
institution that has developed a great reputation and infrastructure to teach the
subject that one wants to pursue a higher education/career in. A lot of people
wondered why I had chosen UCLA, and the answer is actually very obvious – it’s the
best place in the world to study Entertainment law. UCLA had an entertainment law
department that had some wonderful faculty who brought years of experience from
Hollywood and other international entertainment industries, into the classroom.
Imagine being able to study about being a lawyer with a record label from someone
who actually worked with Capitol Records and works with Warner Brothers – that’s
exactly what UCLA offered me, and in my opinion, it’s that kind of specialized focus
and infrastructure that actually helps students gain a more informed and insightful
understanding of the area of study they are focussing on.
HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT YOUR APPLICATION TO UCLA? WHAT
ARE THE PREREQUISITES TO APPLYING TO A UNIVERSITY IN THE
USA?

I would love to say moots, conferences, publications, solid recommendation letters,

extra-curriculars during law school, internships – the works, but I think at the end of
the day what matters the most is clarity. One needs to be very clear about why one
wants to pursue higher education at a university in the USA and that clarity needs to
translate itself into a well structured, well written and sincere Statement of Purpose.
I’ve always been a bit of a nerd and so pursuing a Masters was always something I
wanted to do, and perhaps accordingly, I ensured that I had a fair balance (not a lot
– emphasis on the word fair) of conferences and internships, however even the
greatest recommendation letter in the world cannot substitute for a good Statement
of Purpose. I definitely took time out to focus and re-write my SoP which I think also
had a huge role to play in securing some financial assistance for my education. It’s
also good to understand why you want to study further – a few people I know have
referred to their LLM year as a holiday year- I have no idea what they are talking
about. Studying abroad is a memorable but potentially difficult experience where you
have to get used to studying a whole new jurisdiction while ensuring that you cook
edible meals and live on a shoe-string budget. However, coming back to the
prerequisites of applying to a US university, it’s always good to focus on a good SoP,
good and relevant recommendation letters and research.

AFTER HAVING COMPLETED YOUR MASTERS IN THE USA, WHAT

MADE YOU COME BACK TO INDIA, ESPECIALLY SINCE
ENTERTAINMENT, MEDIA AND IPR LAW IS A MORE ESTABLISHED
ARENA THERE?

I’ve always been an art-lover at heart and I’ve been fortunate enough to know and
meet some wonderful artists living and working in India. While I love to travel and
experience new cultures, a part of me always has to come back to India so in a way,
I’m a bit of a boomerang. A career in Entertainment law in the US, particularly LA
would have definitely been a lot more sensible and exciting in some ways, however
there were many practical and cultural factors that influenced my decision to head
back. For starters, opportunities in theUS legal market were scarce and I felt that the
efforts to pursue a career there far outweighed the benefits. India also offered so
many opportunities with its own big entertainment industry, my relationships with
artists and creatives back home and most of all, thechallenge of doing something a
little different in your own backyard.

HOW HAS YOUR MASTERS FROM UCLA AFFECTED YOUR CAREER

IN THE LONG RUN? DO YOU THINK A PERSON WITHOUT A SIMILAR
MASTERS DEGREE FROM A FOREIGN UNIVERSITY WOULD FACE
SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER CHANCES OF SUCCESS IN THE INDIAN
MARKET?

Contrary to popular belief, there are quite a few Entertainment and Media lawyers in
India and we are not an endangered species at all. There’s an age old debate about
whether higher education outweighs experience or vice versa, and the truth is the
best chance one has is by achieving a balance of the two. My LLM at UCLA has had
a profound impact on the work I do because of many things I learnt and experienced
during my time in LA. Whether it’s having achieved a deeper appreciation for artist
rights, a more wholesome understanding of copyright law and licensing, or just a
greater awareness of all thedifferent kinds of law that Entertainment law
encompasses (IPR, Labour law, Contracts, OSH, Tax), my masters from UCLA has
definitely shaped the way I perceive issues facing my clients and theindustry I work
with. Having said that, I can’t say for sure if a foreign degree would necessarily
increase the chances of success in the Indian market, but it might provide one with
much needed perspective.
AFTER RETURNING TO INDIA, YOU FOUNDED ARTISTIK LICENSE.
PLEASE TELL US MORE ABOUT IT. HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE OF
BUILDING UP YOUR OWN START-UP?

I’m still building it up, and I think it’s going to be a lifelong project of mine. After
returning to India, I chose to work with CLPR – a research think tank based out of
Bangalore, in order to gain more experience as a research associate. However,
there came a point where I felt I ought to be doing more work in Entertainment law,
and while Ilooked out for opportunities in Entertainment law firms and companies,
nothing came close to what I really wanted to do – work with content creators, artists
and creative entrepreneurs directly. So, after a lot of searching I decided that it was
time to take a leap of faith, and start working independently. Artistik License started
off as a blog or a repository of legalese for artists working in India – something which
it still serves as today, but after some hard work and lessons, has evolved into a
consultancy where I advise artists and creative startups on their rights, as well as
provide them with specialized legal services. What really makes Artistik License
different, is its focus on independent artists and startups. As an organization, it
focuses on two tracks – enabling the independent artist and entrepreneur’s business
by way of specialized legal advice as well as by empowering artists, and creative
entrepreneurs through rights awareness workshops, discussions and research work.

Although I was really frightened at first, I think entrepreneurship was something that I
was designed for. I had a great support system, comprising of my folks and my
friends, who shared my fears and joys, and were a great sounding board for all my
ideas. Building your own startup from scratch can be scary but rewarding,so long as
you don’t bite off more than you can chew. Considering Artistik License’s niche
focus, there was, and might always be, a certain amount of risk involved in what I do,
however I can’t think of anything else I would rather be doing. The past two years
have seen Artistik License’s clientele grow, and I’ve been invited to present my work
at various domestic and international music markets, conferences and events.

ARE ARTISTS GENERALLY AWARE OF THEIR RIGHTS? HOW CAN

SUCH AWARENESS BE INCREASED?

Some are, and some aren’t; even then, the awareness can be incomplete. There are
many factors that contribute to this situation of imperfect knowledge, including
access to information and the communication of important information. It’s critical to
ensure that artists are made aware of the need to understand why rights awareness
is important, but then it’s just as important as law people, to enable that awareness
in a manner that is chilled out, and not steeped in legal jargon. There are many ways
in which awareness can be increased, and I work closely with many non-law
organizations who want more artist rights empowerment. Workshops, discussion
groups and online articles are a great way to get this valuable information across.
Besides the Artistik License blog, I also write frequently for Campus Diaries (for the
younger artists and entrepreneurs) and Indiearth (a platform dedicated indie artists in
the Indian ocean region), on topics that might be of potential interest to artists and
entrepreneurs alike.
ARTISTIK LICENSE ALSO ORGANISES WORKSHOPS FOR
DISSEMINATING KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJECT. WOULD YOU
CONSIDER ENGAGING YOUNG LAW STUDENTS IN THESE
WORKSHOPS TO HELP THEM LEARN ALONG WITH THE ARTISTS?

Of course! I can see creativity and entrepreneurship being an integral part of the law
school experience, and it’s always a pleasure to engage and talk to law students
from anywhere. I’ve been fortunate enough to have a wonderful time with some very
intelligent, very quirky young law students from Christ College, Bangalore and
NALSAR, who have been wonderful and so helpful by interning with Artistik License.

IN BETWEEN ALL THIS YOU HAVE ALSO BEEN WORKING AT

VAHURA. WHEN AND HOW DID YOU JOIN VAHURA? PLEASE TELL
US ABOUT YOUR WORK PROFILE THERE.

My relationship with Vahura is both a new and old one. A few years ago, I worked
with Rainmaker as a features editor, and a few months ago, I had the opportunity to
start working with Vahura and its amazing team. At Vahura, I work with the Business
Development and Clients Solution vertical, where I especially focus on business in
the South Indian region. I enjoy the unique position of being able to interact with
some of the smartest legal professionals and some of the best businesses and law
firms in thecountry. A great deal of what I do involves networking and making
connections – something I can’t get enough of. As an organization set out to help
lawyers do good work, Vahura offers many services besides legal, tax, compliance
and governance searches. It also provides strong counsel and research through its
mentorship and consulting verticals. While we all help each other out at Vahura,
another area that I work closely with is Vahura’s Engage vertical, which provides the
legal community opportunities to interact with each other through various
professional and community events.

WHAT INSIGHTS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH OUR READERS

FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE IN LEGAL RECRUITMENTS AT VAHURA?

My insights into legal recruitment are quite limited at this time, because a great deal
of what I do concerns the overall legal market and business. There are others at
Vahurawho have a more nuanced understanding of legal search business, and I
would be more than happy to put any of your readers in touch with them. I can say
this much – these are some exciting times for the law graduate, since I think we’re
smack in the middle of an era where there really is something for everyone. So
whether you want to be a corporate lawyer, a litigator, a legal academic or a legal
entrepreneur, the industry is currently offering a lot of opportunities to pursue any
career you wish, and if it’s some counsel and direction you’re looking for, we at
Vahura are happy to help. This is probably my biggest learning from Vahura so far –
an understanding that we’re far more focussed on helping legal professionals
discover their full potential rather than simply place them in suitable positions.
YOU HELD THE POST OF CONTENT CURATOR AND CO-ORDINATOR
AT CONSTRUKT FESTIVAL 2015. HOW MAY STARTUP FESTIVALS
SUCH AS THIS PROVE TO BE IMPORTANT FOR A LAW STUDENT?

I was thrilled for the opportunity to work with Construkt 2015 and must express my
gratitude to the festival’s founder, ShashiKiran, who is nothing short of an
entrepreneurial powerhouse. Working with him and the Construkt team so closely
taught me a great deal about entrepreneurship and the ways in which the right kind
of platforms and infrastructure can truly help nurture a great innovation eco-system. I
definitely think that more law students need to be open about attending such
festivals where entrepreneurship is not only encouraged, but celebrated. For
instance, Construkt 2014 and 2015 both celebrated legal entrepreneurship and
innovation, by hosting talks by lawyers working in the field of law and technology,
entertainment law and startup law. As the content curator for this year’s edition, I had
a great time sifting through some amazing content by speakers, but it would be
super if we could get more inputs and entries from the legal community as well.
HOW DO YOU MANAGE TIME BETWEEN YOUR TWO ROLES? ARE
YOU ABLE TO FIND A WORK-LIFE BALANCE?

A few days ago I heardsomeone say that we’ve almost taken it for granted that we’re
supposed to struggle, hate our bosses and hate work. The truth is, that if we’re doing
something we like,then we don’t even think about things like over-time, and being
over-worked. At this point in my life, I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to be
more than one person, and to do more than one thing. I’m surrounded by a number
of inspiring people from the legal and creative communities (not that the two need to
be exclusive), and I find a great deal of joy in what I do. Sure, it’s overwhelming at
times and there are days when I just want to throw things at people, but I think the
key is to achieve balance in whatever one does, and to remember that we are the
best judges of our own situations. I also find that taking care of one’s body and mind
goes a long way in ensuring that one can get more out of life. I’m not the fittest fiddle
in the world, but over the past year, I’ve noticed that I consciously try to eat healthy,
lead an active life and pursue my other interests including creative writing, glass
painting, accompanying my musician friends to their shows, and understanding how
to lead a more cruelty-free life. I’m a bit of a hippie at heart.

WHAT IS THE ONE ADVICE YOU WOULD LIKE TO GIVE OUR

READERS?

There is no formula to success. Years of conditioning in law school teaches us to

assume that we need to fit into one mould or the other, but the truth is there really
are no restrictions to the kind of opportunities one can tap into these days. It’s
important to be brave and to seek good counsel, and to remember that it’s okay if
you don’t fit into the traditional structures and expectations created by your family or
the legal fraternity. It’s important to be honest in the work that one does, and to push
aside the drama, no matter how tempting it is to overanalyse it. You can be a
SuperLawyer just by being yourself, and working hard.
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 CLICK TO COMMENT

ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Sudhir Reddy, Founder, Reddy &

Reddy Advocates & Legal Consultants,
on LL.M from Cardiff and Mediation
course from Oxford

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on July 28, 2015
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Sudhir Reddy graduated in LL.B from DES Law College, Pune University in 2009,
after which he pursued his Masters from Cardiff University, United Kingdom. After
completing his degree in Masters he worked in a law firm called Thodur Law
Associates as an Associate Advocate. He also pursued a course of Civil/Commercial
Mediation from Oxford and became an Accredited Mediator in 2014. At present, he
operates his own law firm which has a practice of both litigation and corporate work.

In this interview we talk about –

 Choosing International Commercial Law as his specialization for LL.M

 Pursuing a course of Civil/Commercial Mediation from Oxford
 Becoming an Accredited Mediator by 2014
 Starting his own law firm “Reddy & Reddy Advocates and Legal Consultants”

GIVEN THAT MOST OF OUR READERS BELONG TO LEGAL

FRATERNITY, HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THEM?

To start with I am a practising advocate mainly practising in the Pune courts and the
Mumbai high court. I completed my LLB from Pune University and my LLM from
Cardiff University, United Kingdom. I am also a certified civil and commercial
mediator .I run my own law firm in Pune which deals with litigation as well as
corporate work. However before starting the law firm I did work under senior
attorneys at different High Courts so that I could earn some practical experience and
confidence to start my own firm. My experience in Law is not just confined to the
Domestic laws but I have also gained experience in mediation and negotiations in
United Kingdom after completion of International civil and commercial Mediation
course from Oxford.

HAVING DONE B.COM, WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW AS

A CAREER? OR DID IT JUST HAPPEN?
To tell you guys the truth, my foremost aim was to become a lawyer but being from a
business class family I had to learn certain aspects of commerce mainly accounts so
that I would be able to put in my efforts in the working of my father’s established
business. Also having knowledge in commerce helped me cater to my corporate
clients in taking managerial decisions.

AS A LAW GRADUATE OF PUNE UNIVERSITY, HAVE YOU FACED

ANY COMPARISON WITH NLUS? WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE
FUTURE GRADUATES OF PUNE UNIVERSITY REGARDING THIS?

I personally feel that these are all pre conceived notions that only the NLUS can
provide the needed exposure to its students. Ultimately the laws are the same it’s up
to the student how he/she decides on to shape up his/her life. I personally took the
needed effort to attend various seminars and small conferences pertaining to law,
held during my period at the law school. It’s the knowledge you imbibe that matters
which should be practical as well as theoretical knowledge.

WHAT WERE YOUR AREAS OF INTEREST DURING YOUR

GRADUATION? HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DEVELOPING EXPERTISE
AND KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS?

As a law student I never wanted to confine myself to any particular area of law. My
main aim was to absorb and learn everything which was taught to me during my
classes and my internships .But I had always enjoyed negotiating and mediating any
disputes and I realised I was good at it because I was always successful in solving a
dispute. This made me realise that I had an inclination towards solving disputes in a
peaceful and non-stressful manner. I did have keen interest in alternate dispute
resolution systems and outside court settlement procedures and so I become a
mediator.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON ACTIVITIES LIKE MOOTING,
DEBATING AND PUBLICATIONS IN JOURNALS? WHAT SKILLS DO
LAW STUDENTS ACQUIRE BY ENGAGING THEMSELVES IN SUCH
ACTIVITIES?

I have always been of an opinion that in an all-round development of a student

activities like mooting, debating play a crucial role. This is where the student
develops its confidence and learns legal interpretation .Also these activities will help
students in inculcating good research skills. The students also realise what exact
field they should be taking up after college after doing these activities.

RIGHT AFTER GRADUATING, YOU WENT FOR LLM. WHY DID YOU
DECIDE TO GO FOR HIGHER STUDIES?

Going for LLM right after graduation was my game plan since the time I joined my
LLB course .My main intention for pursing LLM was to well equip myself with the
international legal scenario.UK being a common law country I was sure that this
experience will benefit me in expanding the horizons of my legal knowledge
internationally .

HOW DID YOU CHOOSE CARDIFF UNIVERSITY OVER OTHERS? HOW

DID YOU GO ABOUT CHOOSING A UNIVERSITY?

The main reason to choose Cardiff University was that it is one of the royal charter
universities and also one of the well ranked universities in UK. Along with that it had
a beautiful campus and an apt course that attracted me to choose this university
over others.
WHY DID YOU CHOOSE INTERNATIONAL COMMERCIAL LAW AS
YOUR SPECIALIZATION FOR LL.M? WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO
PURSUE YOUR LL.M IN INTERNATIONAL COMMERCIAL LAW?

My course comprised of variety of subjects like international banking, competition

laws, international corporate governance and World Trade organisation, which were
entirely different than the regular curriculum taught to law pursuants in India. Also
there was a wide range optional modules we could opt for hence I chose to peruse
International Commercial Law.

WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO

DECIDE WHICH AREA OF LAW TO SPECIALISE IN?

Do your internships in all the fields. Participate in moots, debate, paper presentations
and client counselling competitions. All this will help you understand your weak
points and make you sure on what areas of law you like and what kind of practise
you are good at.

AFTER COMPLETING YOUR MASTERS, YOU WORKED AT THODUR

LAW ASSOCIATES FOR AN YEAR AS AN ASSOCIATE ADVOCATE.
HOW DID YOU SECURE YOUR APPOINTMENT? DID YOU APPLY OR
GOT AN OFFER FROM THE LAW FIRM?

After my LLM I wanted to gain practical experience for getting myself acquainted with
the procedural part of a legal proceedings, Thodur Law Associates is a law firm
based in Mumbai practising at High Court hence there were larger chances of me
getting a vast experience.
I had gone to Mumbai after I was back from United Kingdom to search for
prospective law firms where I could actually gain practical experience. Coincidentally
I met the senior partner of the firm, I narrated to him my reason for applying in the
said firm, he was very impressed seeing my urge to learn and I was told to join right
from the next day at their firm.

HOW DID YOU OVERCOME YOUR INITIAL JITTERS IN A

COURTROOM FULL OF EXPERIENCED LAWYERS AND JUDGES?
TELL US ABOUT THE HIGHS AND LOWS.

I am a supercharged guy since childhood, talking to unknown people, making new

friends or being at a new place with new surrounding was never a challenge to me.
But I still remember the first time I appeared in front of a judge was at the Bombay
High Court. As soon as I stood up to mention the said matter I went blank and stood
right in the same position for good one minute without a single word spoken. The
judge sort of understood that I have frozen so he sort of covered up for me and told
me to come next day.

And since then till now I have changed tremendously .Now I wait eagerly to appear
at the court and to prove my point.
THEREAFTER, YOU HAVE STARTED YOUR OWN LAW FIRM REDDY
& REDDY ADVOCATES AND LEGAL CONSULTANTS AND
CURRENTLY YOU ARE THE MANAGING PARTNER OF THE FIRM.
WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO MAKE THIS CHOICE AND START YOUR
OWN LAW FIRM?

It’s my father’s confidence in me which gave me the courage to start my own law
firm. He has been the backbone of the firm since the day of the inception of Reddy &
Reddy, Advocates and Legal Consultants. He has supported me when I needed
encouragement and confidence the most. To be frank there were many to
discourage but few to encourage. But somehow the voice inside told me to go ahead
and prove it that I can do it.

PLEASE TELL US A BIT ABOUT “REDDY & REDDY ADVOCATES AND

LEGAL CONSULTANTS”. WHAT IS A DAY AT WORK LIKE? IS IT
EASY TO HAVE A WORK-LIFE BALANCE?
My day at work starts with my morning prayer and then a quick workout. I am in the
office quite early because I need to take quick updates about the distribution of the
work to the associates for the day. I then go ahead and start with all my client
meeting and if I have an argument for the day I take a quick look at the case and
have fun leading the argument at the court. There are times when I spend the whole
day in the negotiation for my corporate clients but having a remarkable team keeps
me relived that my office functioning at its peak. I end my day at office by taking
updates from all my associates along with a nice cup of coffee.

TELL US ABOUT THE PRACTICE AREAS OF REDDY AND REDDY

ADVOCATES AND LEGAL CONSULTANTS.

Reddy and Reddy Advocates and Legal is Based in Pune, it offers a full range of
legal services on all aspects of the Indian law to a diversified client base, including
well-known multi-national corporations functioning in India. In addition to serving our
clients directly, our lawyers serve as experts of Indian law in both transactional and
litigation matters. In particular, the firm has a strong practice group that specializes in
mediation and negotiation, credit management, real estate, property & land laws. We
are dedicated to our clients’ needs and we strive to achieve total satisfaction for our
clients by legal excellence.

Our clients include major Banks, Non-Banking Finance Companies, Real Estate,
Multinationals, Industrial Houses, and Software Companies.

The firm’s lawyers have an average experience of over 5 years in handling complex
legal issues touching on almost all aspects of Indian law. We combine a personal
approach with high professional standards and aim at providing comprehensive legal
services to our individual, corporate, financial and commercial clients.
IN THE MEANTIME, YOU HAVE PURSUED A COURSE OF
CIVIL/COMMERCIAL MEDIATION FROM OXFORD AND BECAME AN
ACCREDITED MEDIATOR IN 2014. WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO
PURSUE THIS COURSE AND BECAME A CERTIFIED MEDIATOR?

Mediation is the next revolution in the legal field. Since our country is evolving in a
very fast pace the people of our country want every issue to be resolved as fast as
possible. Being a lawyer I have practically seen how burdened the court is with
numerous cases. Before going for the course few of my clients had asked me if I
knew any commercial mediator and that is when I decided why not me. I looked for
few courses and I found the one in Oxford is what suits my requirements perfectly.

Meditation is already a very upcoming requirement for the multinational companies

because they have clients all over the world and solving disputes outside the court is
more convenient for them. Mediation is immensely into existence in the European
and the western legal system. So it’s always better to do a course on mediation and
negotiations it will surely help them in the future.

YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF ORDERS TO YOUR CREDIT. DO

THEY CHANGE ONE’S RECOGNITION?

(Sudhir has orders to his credit in criminal litigation, consumer disputes, land
disputes, family disputes and outside court settlements in labour and industrial
disputes)
It just makes me want to work even harder because I want to keep my clients always
satisfied. My only aim is that when the client agrees to take services from us he/she
attains the best of the services which my firm can provide.
Regarding once recognition, yes it does change the recognition as it shows
experience a person has and the dedications the person has put in to get the desired
results.

WHAT WERE THE DIFFICULTIES YOU FACED IN THE EARLY DAYS

OF YOUR PRACTICE? HOW DIFFICULT WOULD YOU SAY IT IS TO
BUILD A REPUTABLE PRACTICE?

Early days were relaxed and peaceful. I did have work from the day I started my own
office but the stress of uncertainty was always there. Although it will be wrong to say
that the uncertainty is not present anymore because our firm is still in its growing
stage.

I also want to say that it is quite difficult to build a reputation and then harder to
maintain it, one really needs to have lot of patience in order to raise your own
organisation from one level to another. You need to have a good team with you to
run the show and thankfully at this point of time I have an awesome team who helps
me, guides me and back me up everywhere.

DO YOU TAKE INTERNS? WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A

PROSPECTIVE APPLICANT?

Yes, we do take interns. When we get an application for internship we usually don’t
see the scores and credentials of the student because we understand different
universities have different ways of marking. We usually see the cover letter and the
practical experience the applicant has provided in the application and most
importantly the urge of the applicant to work and learn.
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO LAW STUDENTS WHO
DREAM OF HAVING THEIR OWN LAW FIRM ONE DAY?

Never give up. Enjoy your failure because this is the way you are learning and this is
how you grow as a person. According to me there are 4 stages involved if u want to
start your own firm. At the first stage you have no work no money ,second stage only
work no money at the third stage good work good money and finally the fourth stage
less work only money.

Not necessarily it has to go the same way but that’s what it is like in the holistic
picture. Be confident and kick off.

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Chinmay Bhosale, Advocate, Bombay

High Court, on working with reputed
Senior Advocates, Criminal Law
practice and choosing litigation

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on July 27, 2015
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Chinmay Bhosale is a graduate from ILS, Pune 2010 batch. He has been a
consistent topper of his batch at University of Pune, he had also been selected in the
final list of Rhodes Scholarship 2010.

It has been five years since he joined the Bar and he has worked on high profile
cases with intense legal issues like the 2G case, Hawala Scam Case, Maval Police
Firing Enquiry Commission, Adarsh Commission, etc. Currently, he is pursuing his
Ph.D and the topic for his thesis is ‘Malicious Prosecution’.

Chinmay talks about :

 His experience interning under Ashok Mundargi, Senior Counsel and Adv.
Shreekant Kanetkar, Ex-Chairman, Bar Council of Maharashtra and Goa.
 Choosing to litigate as against pursuing post graduate studies.
 Criminal law practice in India.
  Working on high profile cases.

GIVEN THAT MOST OF OUR READERS BELONG TO LEGAL

FRATERNITY, HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THEM?

Chinmay Bhosale, to be brief J. A confident lawyer with an eidetic memory, who

eventually wants to contribute to the legal profession, education and jurisprudence in
my own maverick way.

LEGAL STUDIES ARE STILL ONLY A BACKUP OPTION FOR QUITE A

LOT OF STUDENTS. WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW AS A
CAREER?

Choosing law as a career came very naturally to me. I come from a family which has
acclaimed legal luminaries who have achieved success in varied fields and
capacities; be that of a Senior Advocate, Chief Justice, Vice Chancellor or even a
Law Minister. So, I have always felt very humbled by my surname and have had a
natural awe towards law.

WHAT WERE YOUR AREAS OF INTEREST DURING YOUR

GRADUATION? HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DEVELOPING EXPERTISE
AND KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS?

I had fleeting interest in International Law at once, which led me to pursue and win a
National Moot Court relating to the subject. However, my major and “only true love”
has been criminal law. Apart from having immense interest in subjects like IPC,
Cr.P.C. and Evidence Act, as a student I even tried to cover peripheral sub-areas
like human rights, medical jurisprudence and forensic science by way of diploma
courses. Also, three out of five years of my law school life I interned with Senior
Advocate Ashok Mundargi, one of the giants of the criminal bar at Bombay. The
internship gave me great insights into the ‘practicality’ of criminal law and the
profession.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR LAW SCHOOL JOURNEY FROM THE 1ST

YEAR TILL YOUR FINAL YEAR AT ILS LAW COLLEGE, PUNE.

My 5 year journey at ILS Law College, Pune was quite eventful. I had my share of
highs and lows. I entered as an low-on-confidence novice, and emerged as a
confident and ‘borderline arrogant’(as some would say J ) advocate. In this transition
I tried to do a bit of everything from topping the University thrice in my five years,
winning a national moot court, being the Student Representative of my batch for
three years, being a part of the Student Council of ILS Law College, Pune,
completing four diplomas, interning with Senior Advocates and even being amongst
the final 15 students for Rhodes Scholarship, India. However, the most humbling and
learning experiences were my failures, which were quite a few J

TELL US, WHAT KIND OF WORK DID YOU DO IN YOUR INTERNSHIPS

WITH SENIOR COUNSELS?

(During his law school Chinmay has interned under Adv. Ashok Mundargi, Senior
Counsel and Adv. Shreekant Kanetkar, Ex-Chairman, Bar Council of Maharashtra
and Goa.)
I was almost like a permanent intern with Senior Adv. Ashok Mundargi, as every
vacation I used to be working in his chamber. Most of my time at his chamber was
spent observing his arguments and interactions at client conferences; and partly
trying to contribute to his arguments. My experience with Adv. Shreekant Kanetkar
was quite enlightening, more because I understood that I had little or no liking
towards civil laws. However, at his chamber I learnt the art of productive and crisp
research, as most of my time was spent trying to learn the concepts of civil law.

WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO BUDDING MOOTERS?

(Chinmay has participated in various National and Intra-College Moot Court

Competitions and he was a part of the winning team of the Technology Law Moot
Court Competition, IIT Kharagpur (Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property
Rights), 2008.)
Well, I never was a great mooter, so it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to give any
advice on that. However, I would definitely like to say to all the budding mooters out
there that please do not consider moots as the whole and sole of your life at law
school. Moot courts are bereft of reality, and there is a lot more to your life at law
school than mooting.

HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK ARE CO-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES

IN SHAPING THE LEGAL CAREER OF A LAW STUDENT?

I think co-curricular activities play a major role in shaping the legal career of any
student, especially of those who wish to be a part of the action in the Courts. Quite
often, it’s the persona of the Lawyer which stands out than his knowledge of law. Co-
curricular activities play a major part in honing that persona. For me, I was an avid
trekker, a national level sportsman and had varied interests like playing tabla,
learning graphology etc. All these activities have definitely helped me in succeeding
at the bar.
HOW WAS YOUR FIRST YEAR AFTER GRADUATION?

It was quite an internal struggle. As a law student I had an inkling towards pursing
my post graduate studies from U.K. and I had admission letters from majority of the
elite universities like London School of Economics, University College of London etc.
However, I chose to enter the Bar straight away, as that is what I always wanted to
do. So I started out in Mumbai, a city which has taught me a lot. I continued as a
junior advocate at the chamber of Adv. Ashok Mundargi, where I had already
interned for three years. Thereafter, I joined the chamber of Adv. Satish L.
Maneshinde.

WHAT COMPRISED YOUR WORK AT THE CHAMBERS OF ADV.

ASHOK MUNDARGI AND ADV. SATISH L. MANESHINDE?

Working as a junior advocate at the chamber of Adv. Ashok Mundargi came as a

natural continuation, as I had worked previously with him. However, at some point I
felt the need to learn the nuances of criminal trials. Adv. Satish L. Maneshinde is the
biggest personality in Bombay when it comes to criminal trials. I always had a desire
to work with him. It was at his chamber that I learnt that a legendary advocate is also
a legendary persona. My experience with both of them was quite antithetical,
however equally enriching.

PLEASE GIVE US SOME HIGHLIGHTS OF THE HIGH PROFILE CASES

YOU WORKED ON FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR READERS.

(Chinmay has worked on high profile cases with intense legal issues like 2G case,
Hawala Scam Case, Maval Police Firing Enquiry Commission, Adarsh Commission,
etc.)
I have been very fortunate to have had the pleasure of working with three Senior
Advocates viz. Adv. Ashok Mundargi, Adv. Satish L. Maneshinde and my father
Adv.Dr. Sureshchandra Bhosale. I got to work on endless high profile and intense
cases. In cases like 2G scam and Adarsh Commission I played an assisting role,
gaining a world of knowledge. On the other hand, in cases like Maval Police Firing
Commission I had a very active role in recording of evidence of numerous witnesses
and arguing the matter, where I defended the Maharashtra Police successfully. Apart
from the love of law, one also needs to have a healthy affection towards tireless
reading in order to succeed in such intense cases.

YOU HAVE STARTED YOUR CRIMINAL LITIGATION PRACTICE.

WHAT INFLUENCED YOUR DECISION TO START CRIMINAL
PRACTICE AFTER GRADUATION? WHY NOT CIVIL LITIGATION OR
CORPORATE LAW PRACTICE?

As I have stated earlier, I have always had a great liking towards criminal law. It is,
as they say, in my blood. My father is one of the topmost and famed criminal lawyers
of Maharashtra, and that worked as a catalyst for my decision. Also, having interned
with a Senior on the civil side had given me a clear idea that I did not have any
inkling towards civil or corporate law.
PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH REGARD TO
YOUR FIRST FEW YEARS IN COURT. HAS IT BECOME MORE
DIFFICULT FOR A FRESHER TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS?

Your first few years at the bar are majorly spent observing the proceedings, and it
wasn’t very different for me either. Almost all the freshers undermine the necessity of
this period, and pretend to be observing. However, this is the period which will define
the trajectory of the life at the bar. As rewarding and fulfilling your life can be at the
bar once you are successful and a known figure, it can be equally tiring and
frustrating in the earlier stage. I would advice all the freshers to patiently outlive this
difficult phase, without compromising the “observing”.

YOUR MAIN AREA OF PRACTICE CONSISTS OF CRIMINAL

LITIGATION. PLEASE ELABORATE ON THE CASES YOU NORMALLY
DEAL WITH.

My 75% work consists of criminal litigation, rest 25% is criminal consultation what
they call “white collar crimes”. Thanks to the repute of my chamber, I have the good
fortune of dealing with intense criminal cases day in day out in the Courts. They
range from cases of murder, attempt to murder, marital cruelty, cheating and forgery,
cases under the TADA, MCOCA, Anti- Corruption etc. Apart from that, there is a
heavy inflow of corporate or white collar crime cases which are majorly economic in
nature.
YOU ARE ALSO PURSUING PH.D. YOUR PH.D. THESIS IS ON
‘’MALICIOUS PROSECUTION’’. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THIS
PARTICULAR TOPIC IN PARTICULAR?

Even though there is a plethora of cases that I myself defend every day, the truth is
that accusations in 90% of the cases are baseless. In my 5 years at the Bar I had to
face a conviction only once as a defence counsel; and that led me to choose my
Ph.D. thesis topic. In India criminal prosecutions are handled very irresponsibly, as
making allegations is free in our country. At the end of the trial, the accused is only
handed over a judgment of acquittal. However, the loss of reputation, business,
peace of mind, time, etc. are never accounted for. It is my endeavour to make
extensive study of the concept of “Malicious Prosecution” and put forth suggestions
for effectively preventing the same in India.

INDIAN CRIMINAL LAW IS, TO A LARGE EXTENT, INFLUENCED BY

ITS BRITISH COUNTERPART. DO YOU THINK IF INDIANS WOULD
HAVE FRAMED OUR PENAL CODE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER?
It is not largely influenced, it is entirely prepared and influenced by the British.
However, it would be very harsh to say that Indians would have done a better job. I
feel the law commissions of 1833 and 1853 have done an exceptional job, which
eventually materialised into the Indian Penal Code. Since 1860, it has required far
lesser amendments than what our very own Constitution of India has needed since
1950.

IF YOU WERE ASKED TO SUGGEST SOME CHANGES TO THE

PRESENT INDIAN CRIMINAL LAW, WHAT WOULD THEY BE?

It would definitely be adding a chapter relating to ‘Malicious Prosecution’ in order to

curb the vexatious litigations. Also, to have an effective change in the lives of
common people, the fine component of all the crimes should be substantially hiked in
order to have a deterrent effect as was intended.

TELL US ABOUT A CASE THAT YOU ARE PARTICULARLY PROUD

OF. WHAT STEPS DO YOU TAKE TO PREPARE FOR A DIFFICULT
CASE?

I am proud of all the cases that I have handled, as I would like to believe that I put in
equal amount of hardwork in each and every one of it. In order to succeed at the
criminal bar, it is absolutely essential to know each and every nuance of the criminal
law, majority of which is now defined by plethora of judgments. Minutest of the
aspects can lead to an acquittal or conviction. Hence, I start my preparation the other
way round. After reading the chargesheet, I first get well versed with the possible
intricacies of criminal law involved and the settled case laws on every such point.
Thereafter, accordingly I prepare for my cross examinations. If you successfully
follow this approach, arguments remain as a mere formality.
HOW IS YOUR EXPERIENCE SO FAR? WHAT IS YOUR WORKDAY
LIKE? ARE THERE NEW CHALLENGES EVERY DAY OR DID WORK
FALL INTO A PREDICTABLE PATTERN?

It has been a fulfilling journey so far. Eventually, how is your experience at the bar, is
totally dependent on your mindset. Even our planet has to go through various
seasons, it’s not too different for the lawyers J .

BESIDE YOUR PROFESSIONAL ACHIEVEMENT, YOU ARE ALSO

ACTIVE IN MANY OTHER ACTIVITIES. PLEASE TELL US ABOUT
THEM.

(Chinmay has been a national level player of Netball and state level player of
Basketball. Chinmay is also trained in Graphology (Hand writing analysis) by world
renowned graphology expert Mr. Milind Rajore and a certified student of his
institute.)
I always had a penchant for sports, and was very good at it too. This led me to
participate at a competitive level both at State and National Level. As far as
Graphology is concerned, I am a very curious person. So it was simply out of the
curiosity to know more about hand writing analysis that I started learning it from a
renowned graphologist. It did help me in quite a few cases involving forgery too.

YOU ARE ALSO ENGAGED IN SOCIAL SERVICE ACTIVITIES. COULD

YOU ENLIGHTEN US, IN BRIEF, ABOUT YOUR ROLE.

I was briefly involved with MAD(Make a Difference) Organisation wherein I taught

English to under privileged and slum children. Also, I am associated with an
organisation named CFC (Contribute for Change) where we economically aid people
for varied things like medical treatments, education, sanitation, tree plantations etc. I
strictly believe that I should be living my life in a way that I can reach a vantage
point, from where I could bring about some change in lives of as many people as
possible.

WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN THE PROFILES OF THE PEOPLE YOU

COLLABORATE WITH?

Confidence is utmost important for me, as the members of my team have to interact
in the Court on a daily level. Moreover, the thirst for knowledge should be apparent
alongwith the confidence. Either of the two, single handedly, are not of much use.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE TO LAW STUDENTS

WHO WANT TO LITIGATE JUST AFTER GRADUATION?

Well, choose litigation only if you have tonnes of patience and an unshakeable will
power. However, for one who possess both these qualities, life at the Bar will be very
rewarding.

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Anuroop Omkar & Kritika on authoring

The Art of Negotiation and Mediation
ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on July 23, 2015

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The authors Anuroop Omkar and Kritika are graduates of Gujarat National Law
University (GNLU), Gandhinagar and are presently working in the Corporate
Department of Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan. They have donned many hats. They
jointly run a social service award Bauribandhu Mohapatra and GNLU Award for
Social Service, co founded the company Bridge Mediation & Consulting Pvt. Ltd. and
have been working tirelessly to spread the concept of mediation among the common
masses and commercial groups in India. To give the subject more prominence and
acceptance both among the masses and scholars, they decided to pen down a book
on negotiation and mediation with LexisNexis. The book is extremely simple in terms
of language and international in terms of quality and content. The concepts of
negotiation and mediation have been explained with real life examples, childhood
learning, mythological anecdotes and case studies of commercial negotiations. The
book is titled ‘The Art of Negotiation and Mediation- A Wishbone, Funny Bone and a
Backbone’ and is presently available on Flipkart, Amazon and LexisNexis.

TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR LAW SCHOOL EXPERIENCE OF

PREPARING PROJECTS AND DISSERTATIONS. DID THE PRACTICE
HELP YOU TO IN WRITING A LEGAL BOOK?

If you make projects even a little seriously in law schools, they contribute to your
knowledge base and enhance your research skills. According to us, making projects
becomes interesting only if you choose an interesting topic, a real research area of
law. Of course, it is not always possible, but at least in the subjects that you wish to
specialize, you can always try to choose a critical area of research. Projects and
dissertations help you evaluate what is your area of interest. We know many of our
friends from law school who became interested in their practice area after they
researched on the subject for a research paper at law school or during an internship.

Making projects and dissertations was different from writing a book in many aspects.
Projects and dissertations were purely law based where we presented the existing
laws and gave our interpretation and suggestions. Our book is our attempt to bring
law to the common masses. We have tried to present the practice of negotiation and
mediation in a way that people who don’t practice law can also easily understand.
Additionally, we have also tried to bring in the commercial aspects for businessmen
and practitioners. We have also discussed business case studies where applicable.

Lastly, I (Anuroop) always wanted to write on a subject where I was so comfortable

that I would not have to footnote every sentence I write. While it was obligatory for us
to footnote everything in our projects, our book is our own take on negotiation and
mediation in India. We have made minimal use of footnotes by writing our original
thoughts and interpretation. The book has helped me achieve my law school dream
of minimalizing or even doing away with footnotes by promoting original thought and
innovation.

CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO US THE SUB TITLE OF YOUR BOOK

‘A WISHBONE, FUNNY BONE AND A BACKBONE’?

We use techniques of negotiation and mediation regularly yet without consciously

being aware of it in everyday life. Sometimes, the techniques don’t work to our
advantage because we have the tool but we don’t know how to effectively use it. The
book explains these techniques by relating them to stories, anecdotes or facts we
already know but did not realize that they taught us something about mediation or
negotiation. So, coming to the subtitle, if you wish to summarize the main attributes
of a successful mediator or negotiator he should have a wishbone, a funny bone and
a backbone.

Our subtitle is best explained in our preface. Hence quoting:

You need to have dream clouds floating in your head. You need a clear vision for
what you want. You need drive and an innovative thought process. Or simply an idea
that is so simple, it is out of this world. You need a wishbone.
You need the will power to sustain the setbacks in life. You need to know how to turn
a frown upside down. You need optimism to see every situation with a positive twist.
You need hope. You need cheer. You need a funny bone.

And finally to complete the vertebral column of dealing with disputes; you need a
backbone. You need to know when your demands are reasonable. You need to
know when not to allow someone to take you for a ride. You need to know when not
to back out. You need to stand up for the fundamental principles of your life.

You need a wishbone, a funny bone and a backbone to be the alchemist who comes
out of disputes with more than what you had when you plunged into it.

BOTH OF YOU BEING FULL TIME CORPORATE AND

TRANSACTIONAL LAWYERS, HOW EXACTLY DID YOU WRITE A
BOOK ON ‘THE ART OF NEGOTIATION AND MEDIATION’?

Apart from our active legal practice, we also run Bridge Mediation and Consulting
Pvt. Ltd. (BMCPL). BMCPL is one of the pioneers in organized international
mediation and multi-cultural negotiation training and practice in India. BMCPL is in
the process of providing comprehensive, world class training for students, corporate
professionals, social workers, diplomats and bureaucrats in India. The training is
presently provided in collaboration with Media Logos, Italy who bring in international
mediators as trainers. We have held trainings for students and professionals with
Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS), Mumbai, Gujarat National Law University
(GNLU) and National Law University Jodhpur (NLU-J). So, along with our practice,
we have been always interested in increasing awareness and promoting the practice
of mediation in India.

Negotiation also, is the main component of every one of our transactions. The terms
of a negotiated agreement vary broadly based on practical needs of the client,
feasibility and durability of the terms negotiated through the agreement and legal
tenability depending on various jurisdictions and sector of business. If an agreement
is well negotiated, the dispute resolution will never have to be enforced by the
contracting parties. A fine tuned agreement with clear negotiation based on the
abovementioned criteria hardly ends up triggering the dispute resolution clause.
Even if in the worst case scenario, if there is a dispute between the parties, a very
strong and a reliable mechanism of third party mediation in confidentiality should be
resorted to resolve the disputes without washing dirty linen in public.

EXPLAIN TO US A BIT ABOUT THE PROCESS OF MEDIATION.

In mediation, a third neutral party manages the interaction between disputing parties.
This ensures constructive negotiation between the disputing parties and helps them
to agree on a resolution that is fair, durable, and workable. It is the disputants and
not the mediator who creates and finally agrees on how the dispute needs to be
resolved. In a way, mediation is nothing but the use of negotiation to resolve a
dispute outside the traditional dispute resolution framework.

In mediation, the parties retain control over the dispute and its outcome. This central
feature of mediation- self-determination by the parties- is a facet of democratic
process that the voice and wisdom of people can shape outcomes responsive to
particular situations. In this respect, mediation is fundamentally different from
litigation and arbitration, where power to determine the outcome is ceded to an
arbitrator, judge or jury.

Many myths surround mediation that mask its benefits and prevent its popularity in
the marketplace. There is a common belief among business professionals that
mediation lacks closure or binding authority. However this is not the case. A
settlement agreement executed by the parties post mediation is as binding as all
other contracts.

THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER BOOKS BY INTERNATIONAL

AUTHORS ON NEGOTIATION AND MEDIATION. HOW DO YOU SEE
YOUR BOOK CONTRIBUTING TO THE EXISTING LITERATURE?

As you have rightly pointed out, there is good international literature available on
negotiation and mediation. We have referred to many of these good books like
‘Getting to Yes’ by William Ury and ‘The Middle Voice’ by Lela Love (who also
happens to be one of my (Anuroop) trainers at the program I attended at CEU
Hungary). However, cultural variations and cross cultural confluence plays a key role
in the process of negotiation and mediation.

We wanted to elaborate on the concepts and international practices with an Indian

flavour. It is important for us to understand that negotiation and mediation are not
alien, Western concepts. They have been part of Indian culture since time
immemorial. There are so many examples on use of negotiation, mediation, related
techniques and concepts in the Aesop Fables, Jataka Tales as also in the Indian
epics of Mahabharata and Ramayana. We have tried to introduce these concepts to
our Indian readers by co relating these numerous stories we have heard since
childhood but did not know had so much significance in our adult life.
IS THE BOOK INDIA SPECIFIC OR DOES IT HAVE ANY GLOBAL
SIGNIFICANCE?

Apart from the easily affordable price of the book in the Indian market and the Indian
anecdotes and case studies, the practice of mediation and negotiation has certain
established best practices which have proved to work worldwide. However, the
psychology, approach, expectations and cultural practices in negotiation and
mediation vary significantly in every country. We have tried to present mediation as it
is understood in most regions of the world where it is practised widely like USA,
Europe and Singapore. So, the book definitely has global significance. Additionally,
India is the next global market and the book will be useful for any person who wishes
to establish business connections in India and wishes to understand Indian
psychology towards negotiation and dispute resolution.

HOW IS A 40 HOUR MEDIATION TRAINING DIFFERENT FROM THE

REGULAR ADR CLASSES ATTENDED BY LAW STUDENTS ACROSS
VARIOUS LAW SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY?

The ADR classes in law schools are definitely very useful in preparing a base for
future alternate dispute resolution (ADR) practice. The classes introduce us to the
basics and lay the foundation upon which we can specialize and build a sky scraper
if we wish to. But Indians presently associate ADR practice with only arbitration and
the same reflects in the course curriculum at law schools. Students end up studying
the Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 in great detail. A class or at the max two
are devoted to mediation. Negotiation is not yet acknowledged as a mode of dispute
resolution although lawyers have been informally settling matters outside court since
the time court system exists in India. To top it all, ADR is an optional subject in many
law schools and students many times end up choosing subjects which are more
‘scoring’ or require ‘less effort’.
An internationally accredited 40 hour mediation training focuses more on skill
development rather than legal interpretation. The training is generally conducted in a
round table discussion format and provides participants an insight into not just
mediation best practices and procedures but also related psychology,
neurosciences, communication and body language. After attending the training,
participants tend to approach everyday life differently. The participant’s perception of
every conversation and difficult situation changes after the training. Of course, the
willingness of a participant to absorb information and practice skills is another matter.
That being said, being a good negotiator or mediator is more about a mindset
adjustment rather than knowing the law. Most importantly, you do not need to be a
qualified lawyer, psychologist or social worker to be eligible to apply for training and
be a successful mediator. For instance, the housewives saved India from the impact
of global financial crisis through their savings habit without being an economist.
These housewives who undertake crisis management daily can also be very
effective mediators.

CAN THE EXPERIENCE OF A LAWYER OR A JUDGE BE A GOOD

ENOUGH CRITERION AND EXPERIENCE FOR BEING AN EXCELLENT
MEDIATOR?

As we said earlier, it is not your qualification or experience in law which makes you a
good mediator. What makes you a good mediator is your outlook towards disputes
and life in general. For anybody to be a good mediator, you first need to step away
from the adjudicatory mindset. You need to dip into the age old Vedic knowledge and
be detached from the disputing parties and their conflict. You need to help disputing
parties clear the cobwebs of their hurt and aggression to arrive at the real issues
underlying the dispute which need to be resolved. A mediator should always
approach mediation with an attitude of fortifying long lasting relationships and
maintaining public goodwill of the disputing parties. We all know that an emotionally
agitated person can never make good decisions. An excellent mediator calms down
agitated disputants and helps them achieve an objective outlook of their dispute.
Indians have a typical habit of thinking that they can solve anybody’s disputes and
that their suggestions are absolute. A good mediator never succumbs to this
temptation. He brings the disputants to a position where they themselves chalk out a
solution. Only when the disputants themselves come up with the solution, they
actually implement it instead of again objecting or appealing the outcome in a court.
More and more people are refusing to accept terms being dictated to them by
someone else. The rejection of debt terms by Greek public referendum is a strong
indication of this changing outlook.

Also, disputants generally come with very strong emotions and positions on a
mediation/negotiation table. But the tight rope walk of a mediator requires him to not
be affected by the strong emotions and positions being radiated by a disputant. If the
mediator is himself not objective, neutral and highly pragmatic, how will he help the
disputing parties?

Bottom line-anybody can be a mediator if the person can inculcate these qualities
and streamline them through training and practice. Your aptitude plus training by the
right resource who is knowledgeable in international practices is key.

DOES MEDIATION HAVE ANY KIND OF LEGAL SANCTITY IN INDIA?

Presently, matters at court are being referred to mediation under Section 89 of the
Code of Civil Procedure. Similar mechanism for commercial disputes is provided
under Section 442 of Companies Act, 2013 but the provision and rules have not
been notified yet. Indian laws provide for mediation only after parties approach the
courts. Pre-litigation mediation is not governed by any laws in India presently.
However, I wish to clarify here that the settlement agreement even in a pre-litigation
mediation is binding under the Indian Contract Act, 1872.
The Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 provides for conciliation but not mediation.
It is important here to note that conciliation is not the same as mediation.
‘Conciliation’ implies a stronger form of intervention. The conciliator, not the parties,
often develops and proposes the terms of settlement. In conciliation, the conciliator
is usually seen as an authority figure who is responsible for figuring out the best
solution for the parties. The parties come to the conciliator seeking guidance. In this
regard, the role of a conciliator is distinct from the role of a mediator who is more like
a referee. Mediation is nothing but assisted negotiation.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY ‘INTERNATIONAL BEST PRACTICES’ OF

MEDIATION AS REFERRED IN YOUR BOOK?

Mediation is being practiced professionally in United States of America since almost

the eighteenth century. Pre-litigation mediation is practised extensively in civil
matters in the European Union. Due to this extended practice of professional
mediation, these practitioners have come up with certain principles and practices
which increase the success rate of mediation. These rules are universal and have
worked across the globe. Extensive research and market analysis on how mediation
works best has been conducted. In Russian there is a ‘Kahavat’ as we say in India:
The wise man learns from someone else’s mistakes, the smart man learns from his
own and the stupid one never learns. When the world has already set standards
based on trial and error, these standards should first be adopted and implemented
by us to build the foundation of mediation in India. At the next level, we should
customize these standards based on our own empirical research and innovate
further.

One of the best examples of an international best practice is maintaining

confidentiality. The names of the disputing parties, the facts of the dispute, the
mediation proceedings and the outcome of the mediation should be guarded by
confidentiality. This helps disputants preserve goodwill and resolve their disputes in
a way they think best without the pressure of public scrutiny and expectations.

HAS YOUR BOOK BEEN LAUNCHED OFFICIALLY? IF NOT, WHEN IS

THE OFFICIAL LAUNCH OF THE BOOK? CAN THE READERS
ATTEND YOUR BOOK LAUNCH?

Our book is presently available on Flipkart, Amazon and LexisNexis for the
readers. But the official book launch is at India International Centre, New Delhi on
7th August 2015. Interested readers who wish to attend the book launch can
definitely drop us a mail at omkaranuroop@gmail.com on or before 21st July 2015
and we would love to have them at the launch subject to availability.

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ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Appanna Poonacha, Senior Manager –

Legal, Ocwen Financial Corporation,
on work experience at Manthan LPO
and ISGN Bangalore

ByDonnie Ashok
Posted on July 22, 2015
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Appanna Poonacha graduated in law from University Law College in 2006. Right
after the completion of his graduation he joined Manthan Legal. After working at
Manthan for almost six years, in 2012 he started working in ISGN, Bangalore. At
present he is working as the Senior Manager – Legal of Ocwen Financial
Corporation.

In this interview we talk about –

 His journey through years of law school.

 His work experience at Manthal Legal and ISGN, Bangalore.
 His role of work at Ocwen Financial Corp.
 Pursing Masters in Business Laws (MBL) program from NLSIU, Bangalore.
 Certificate courses on banking and financial services

PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS. WHERE DID

YOU GROW UP AND COMPLETE YOUR INITIAL EDUCATION? HOW
DID YOU DECIDE TO TAKE UP LAW?

I am Appanna Poonacha. I am a Bangalore based corporate lawyer. I currently work

with Ocwen Financial Corp. as a Senior Manager – Legal. In this role I am heading
the company’s legal contracts functionality and oversee all commercial transactions
at Ocwen’s India offices. I was born into a family of lawyers at Coorg, a place which
is popular for its coffee, spices and picturesque landscape. I grew up watching my
dad practicing law. I completed my schooling at Coorg and then pursued my Pre-
University at St. Joseph’s Arts & Science College, Bangalore. I graduated in Law
from University Law College in 2006.

HOW WAS YOUR LAW SCHOOL EXPERIENCE? WHAT ACTIVITIES

WERE YOU INVOLVED IN LAW SCHOOL?

Law school curriculum offers exposure to various subjects in law. This is the first
step towards understanding each subject in depth. Moot courts and internships
churn you towards the practical side of law practice. I actively participated in these
activities which provided exposure to various challenges you come across as a
lawyer. You also build skills related to leadership, teamwork and conflict
management.

UPON GRADUATING, YOU STARTED WORKING AT MANTHAN

LEGAL. WHAT EXACTLY DOES THE COMPANY DO, AND WHAT DID
YOUR WORK PROFILE INVOLVE?

Soon after graduation, I got an opportunity to work with Manthan Legal, an LPO
which then specialized in providing litigation services to law firms in the United
States. Joining an LPO back then was like exploring a ‘road less travelled’. There
weren’t many players in this field. Manthan gave a platform for me to work with
attorneys in a global set up. This was my first stint in a corporate firm. Here I
successfully managed revenue portfolios close to 1Million USD, leading a large team
of attorneys catering to these law firm clientele. I was responsible for delivery
operations, accounts’ management, client relationship management, business
development and growth strategy of the BU.
IN 2012, YOU STARTED WORKING AT ISGN, BANGALORE. WHAT DID
YOUR WORK AT ISGN CONSIST OF?

After 6 years of working at Manthan, I got an opportunity to work with ISGN as an in

house counsel. ISGN is a provider of mortgage technology and services for lenders,
brokers and servicers in the US Mortgage industry. I was primarily responsible to
oversee litigation & contracts for company’s regional office at Bangalore.

CURRENTLY, YOU ARE SENIOR MANAGER AT OCWEN FINANCIAL

CORPORATION. WHAT DO YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES INCLUDE?
WHAT DOES AN AVERAGE DAY OF WORK AT OCWEN LOOK LIKE,
FOR YOU?

Ocwen is one of the largest providers of residential and commercial mortgage loan
servicing, special servicing and asset management services in the United States. I
am currently heading the Contracts team at Ocwen’s offshore facility in India. On a
normal working day, my work involves liaising with internal teams, negotiations with
clients and assisting the business with legal support in contracts.

WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN POTENTIAL CANDIDATES WHILE

RECRUITING THEM? PLEASE DESCRIBE THE MANAGEMENT AND
HR POLICIES THAT OCWEN FOLLOWS?

For me a potential candidate shall possess high values of work ethic, a drive to
achieve and willingness to learn. Knowledge and skills are personal assets which
qualifies an individual to grab opportunities. Ocwen is a workplace that believes in
Customer Centric Quality, Inclusive Meritocracy, People, Integrity and Teamwork.
DO YOU AGREE THAT LAW FIRM ATMOSPHERE IS MORE
COMPETITIVE AND CHALLENGING? HAS YOUR WORK BEEN AN
EXCEPTION TO THIS NOTION?

I would not buy that thought. Every profession has its own challenges. In today’s
global environment, it is unfair to make comparisons.

WHAT ARE THE ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS THAT A LAW STUDENT

MUST FULFIL IN ORDER TO PURSUE A CAREER IN FINANCIAL
SERVICES? DO YOU THINK ADDITIONAL DEGREES LIKE CA OR CS
HELP IN THIS REGARD?

Every day is a learning opportunity. There is no one success formula to be

successful professional in any industry. Knowledge that you gain as a student, as a
young professional will contribute towards personal/professional growth and success
in your career. Additional knowledge and skills are always an added advantage.

HAS THE MASTERS IN BUSINESS LAWS (MBL) PROGRAM FROM

NLSIU, BANGALORE HELPED ENHANCE YOUR SKILLS AND
ABILITIES IN A PROFESSIONAL CAPACITY?

Absolutely! Knowledge in any form has no boundaries or limitation. I was privileged

to get enrolled for MBL from NLSIU. It provided me access to some of the best legal
academicians and resources of law in this country. The program itself was targeted
to corporate professionals.
HOW DID COMPLETING A FEW CERTIFICATE COURSES IN BANKING
AND FINANCIAL SERVICES HELP?

Financial Industry at the United States is highly regulated. These certificate courses
helped me to understand the various laws related to compliance in the day to day
functioning of these corporations.

LASTLY, WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR THE FUTURE? WHAT ADVICE

WOULD YOU GIVE LAW STUDENTS WISHING TO PURSUE A CAREER
IN FINANCIAL SERVICES?

My goal is to be a General Counsel of a large multi-national corporation. My sincere

advice to law students is to utilize the various opportunities provided to them during
their law school tenure, dedicate your time to gain knowledge and skillsets. Always
aim for the sky!

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FEATURED INSIGHTS

Aarthi Sivanandh, Partner, J. Sagar

Associates, on building a corporate
law practice, merging Vichar Parters
and LL.M from Tulane
ByTeam Research
Posted on July 19, 2015

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Aarthi Sivanandh graduated in commerce from Stella Maris College in 1997 before
deciding to pursue law from Tamil Nadu Doctor Ambedkar Law University.
Thereafter, she attended Tulane University (US) on a scholarship and graduated the
masters course in corporate law with distinction. Soon after she worked in California
briefly as a foreign legal consultant before returning to India in 2004. On her return to
India she was part of the founding partner team for Universal Legal. In 2010, she co-
founded ‘Vichar Partners’ which merged into J.Sagar Associates in April 2014.

In this interview she tells us about:

 Degree in Law after commerce and subsequent international exposure

 Building a corporate law practice in Chennai
 Experiences in founding a law firm and its merger with Jyoti Sagar Associates
 Role of a partner at one of the largest firms
 Work life balance and necessary skills of a young lawyer

YOU ARE A B.COM (HONS.) GRADUATE FROM STELLA MARIS

COLLEGE. HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO JOIN TAMIL NADU DOCTOR
AMBEDKAR LAW UNIVERSITY?

I never envisioned myself as a lawyer. In my final year of undergrad college at Stella

Maris, I had won an advertising competition that awarded me an internship offer at
HTA. My mother promptly found me a friend of hers who was a company secretary
who persuaded me to join the course lest I am lured by what they believed as the
glamorous world of advertising. A short introduction to the intermediate course at the
institute and I was captivated by law, thus the road to join the University in Chennai
to pursue a degree in law.

SOON AFTER COMPLETING LL.B., YOU WENT TO PURSUE

MASTERS FROM TULANE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL. WHY DID YOU
DECIDE TO GO FOR HIGHER STUDIES?
I was interested in corporate law but there were no law firms in Chennai in the late
nineties, the city was flooded with court counsels. Litigation was the only thriving
practice area and the city was well known for its stellar attorneys’ bar. I decided to
visit Bangalore and Mumbai for an internship and found the firms there unwilling to
entertain me except for one. It was a struggle to gain exposure to transactional or
corporate practice. It was the time after an undergraduate degree when I was keen
to discover the world, find new experiences. I had also won two scholarships to study
abroad, so I decided to put them to use and get a Masters in Law degree.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR LL.M YEAR AT TULANE. HOW DID THIS

INFLUENCE YOUR CAREER?

My time at Tulane was rewarding and fun filled, both intellectually and personally.
New Orleans is the third most interesting city in the US after New York and San
Francisco; this drew me to choose the foreign lawyers LL.M program at Tulane. My
class had almost 130 people from more than 25 countries. The historic city that had
fought Spanish and French wars, its streetcar and Audubon park still alive from the
1840’s and a milieu of international students was the background in which my mind
grew.–

The enriching dialogues and conversations between professor and student, the
Socratic method of teaching, the non-judgmental easy ways that gave every attorney
the time to compare how they learnt the law at their home countries and how they
articulated themselves, changed my 23 year old mind at very fundamental levels.

Nothing was unacceptable in the system and there were no wrong answers, there
were only ‘different’ answers – This was a huge change from the way I was educated
in Chennai.

I learnt to respect other views, state my own clearly, be financially responsible,

manage hard work, independence and be comfortable with strangers. I decided to
work in the Valley on graduation and came home after 2 years. And like every
person who returns home, I wanted to come back to Chennai and change the way
people viewed the firm culture and practice of corporate law.

YOU HAVE BEEN A CORPORATE LAWYER FOR MOST OF YOUR

CAREER. WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO TAKE UP CORPORATE LAW?
SHARE WITH US ANY EXPERIENCE WHICH HELPED YOU TO SHAPE
YOUR CAREER CHOICES.

My late uncle was a real estate lawyer in the 80’s and my father though retired as a
public prosecutor continues to work in dispute resolution on a range of matters. I
would ask them where companies and others who ran businesses go for their work
and they would both reply that those clients’ litigation needs were taken care of in the
city but for ‘other work’ they would go to Mumbai or Bangalore or Delhi. While I
enjoyed practising with litigation teams in the US (The Chugh Firm), on my return I
began to focus only on corporate and transactions law in India and particularly in
Chennai.
The challenge to marry the various nuances of the law with the intricacies of forward
looking business is both an opportunity and challenge to the transactions and
corporate law practice.

Many commercial relationships succeed without the fear of legal enforcement simply
by relying on the discipline of the parties’ motivation to be fair, their prospect for
future dealing, and the increasing premium they place on reputation.

A quality legal product or service would therefore be one that fine-tunes incentives
by providing for a broader range of contingencies that will in turn dramatically reduce
the costs of dispute resolution. The challenge to achieve this intricate balance calls
upon several skills. This held great appeal for me as a practice area and catered to
my need for cleanliness in human and business interaction.

CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT YOU STARTED YOUR CAREER IN

CALIFORNIA, WAS IT EASY FOR YOU TO SETTLE IN THE WORK
ENVIRONMENT OF INDIA?
The style of work communication and managing client expectations were the big
differences in the work environments. When I moved to Chennai in 2006 there was
still no law firm that was organically grown in Chennai with a true concept of equity or
partnership.

I was a part of Universal Legal in Chennai, India for 4 years that helped me start my
career when I moved home. It was an entrepreneurial foray to set up and learn the
way forward in term of setting up a practice. However, in many ways there was no
‘senior’ in India whose coat tails I could hold on to, the only choice was to play
natural, observe and learn. I settled in easily, it’s a great city and its home. The
community places a premium on fair relationships and quality work which were
encouraging when I started. Many friendships over the years have given me an
insight into the work environment that is unparalleled.

YOU CO-FOUNDED VICHAR PARTNERS IN SEPTEMBER, 2010. HOW

DID THE IDEA GERMINATE? ANY SPECIFIC REASONS WHY YOU
CHOSE THE NAME “VICHAR PARTNERS”?

I had not always wanted to set up my own firm but one is an amalgam of everything
and everyone they meet. The idea of the firm germinated with the usual impatience
some lawyers feel in believing that they could fundamentally change things and grow
a firm that can have an impact. The energy it required and the excitement of
possibilities fuelled me.

By 2010, I felt I had enjoyed the city, represented and worked with many clients who
were willing to work with a non-branded non-legacy firm and had earned the trust of
some of the business leaders in the city. I had sporadically but constantly dreamt of
an organically grown firm in Chennai, with all its partners in Chennai catering to
everything clients need in Chennai had gained momentum. The timing seemed apt
when I met my great colleagues and partners Vinod Kumar and Chitra Narayan.
Everything seemed ordained and there just seemed no point in waiting anymore.

We wanted to institutionalise and build a full service law firm and to create a platform
that awarded and energised lawyers on merit. We were keen to grow a fast paced
technology based law firm that would deal with clients, timelines and quality in an
effective manner.

Our name was coined by to reflect the first 2 letters of each of our names but also
that in Sanskrit. Vichar meant an idea, thought or opinion which was what our firm
was. We were bound in our commitment to quality and our common belief in the
ethical practice of law and business.

IN APRIL, 2014, VICHAR PARTNERS WAS MERGED WITH JYOTI

SAGAR ASSOCIATES, CHENNAI AND YOU CURRENTLY WORK AS A
PARTNER AT JSA, CHENNAI. WHAT PROMPTED THIS MERGER?

Vichar Partners entered the market with large aspirations on being the “go-to” firm in
Chennai for corporate, commercial, transaction and niche litigation work. We grew
considerably well in terms of repute, associate strength and the quality of work we
were handling but we did see market realities in a comparatively smaller geography.
Talented young corporate lawyers were tough to find in Chennai as the city had deep
roots based solely in dispute resolution and transactional work was getting
outsourced which meant there was no investment in building younger lawyers in this
area, or finding administrative paralegal support to handle large transactions.

In our third year we found ourselves on other sides of the table with JSA several
times, while internally we were intrigued and absorbed on the next level of growth for
Vichar. A matter of timing and providence, the potential for a combination seemed
complimentary to both our firms.
Somasekhar from our Mumbai office was a significant influence when he first met us
with the idea, later interactions with Murali from our Bangalore office, Amit from our
Delhi Office and Dina from our Mumbai office confirmed we were on the right path to
considering a merger. Of course, the powerful work ethic and integrity of the
leadership of Berjis and Jyoti preceded the reputation of JSA and in the end it was
almost a natural selection

While some may try to refute this, I do believe that large law firms attract the best
talent, provide superior training and mentoring, and would transform the
inexperienced into an exceptionally skilled attorney. This in turn allows such firms to
attract sophisticated clients, handle cutting-edge transactions and manage the
greatest deal flows. A combination of these ingredients on a consistent basis offers
the best opportunity to develop as a lawyer.

WHAT DOES A PARTNER AT A LAW FIRM LIKE JSA DO? WHAT

FALLS WITHIN THE SCOPE OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITY? TELL US
ABOUT A TYPICAL WORK DAY.
No day is like another. They are unstructured, sometimes meditative in working
through a solution or reactive mode to urgencies or filled with telephone calls.
Typically, the day is filled with interactions with potential clients, ongoing work and
associates.
A typical day would start with getting a handle on all the client matters going on,
different transactions or other mandates involving opinions or structuring a business,
that is either readying itself for a sale or targeting a purchase – the task of managing
responses to all of them and understanding if their strategies fit within the walls of
the law. I prioritize and coordinate with my colleagues who are working with me
based on what stage each transaction or the firm’s involvement is at. Once the
background work and schedules are set within the team, active participation in calls
or negotiations begin, with each party at the table having multiple commercial
requirements and legal must- haves. The forward looking protections that are
required in an ever changing commercial background can require one to bring to
bear an understanding of economics, commerce, industry and the law.

Timelines can stretch for various reasons from parties posturing for the right
leverage or purely for commercial purposes. The loop repeats and until innovative
structuring, alignment of interests and final negotiations find balance– sometimes
takes several months.

WHAT IS THE MOST CHALLENGING OR STRESSFUL PART OF BEING

A PARTNER AT ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL LAW FIRMS IN
THE COUNTRY? IS IT EASY TO HAVE A WORK-LIFE BALANCE?

Challenges are continuous, no piece of work is alike and the constant commercial
and market changes require one to keep pace with it and opine within the four
corners of the law The challenge is to use the right proportion of legal logic,
commercial reasoning and fair persuasion on behalf of a client. Negotiations too are
often like a puzzle, you may know where the piece goes but you also have to time
when you place the piece in the puzzle so as to let others help you complete it.
Being calm and composed in all kinds of crisis situations and timeline based advice
is also a challenging aspect of the practice.

No, it’s not “easy” to have a work life balance. Having said that, I don’t believe work
to life balance should be 50-50, at different points of life the balance scale shifts
sometimes 60-40 and at other times say 40-60. I have two kids aged 7 & 3 who like
to do the typical things kids of that age do– play constantly, run, go to classes etc.
With a good support system I manage to do some of it with them but not all. If you
think of it all as a part of leading a “whole life” then it makes sense than try to slot
each activity into a bucket of either work or life. A true partner/spouse who
understands the nature of work can help immensely in keeping this balance. JSA is
an even keeled firm, with a great set of people and that makes the road saner and
easier.

WHAT KIND OF EFFORT SHOULD A YOUNG ASSOCIATE PUT IN TO

WORK TO GET IT APPRECIATED? WHAT DISTINGUISHES AN
ASSOCIATE FROM A PARTNER WHEN IT COMES TO WORK?

A young associate should have a keen mind that should be somewhat of a sponge –
that absorbs everything in and around, taught and not taught and a thirst to learn.
The law school rote method won’t let you stay afloat in a law firm but resourcefulness
and hard work will. There are no short cuts.

The outside world and fresh off the boat lawyers are often enamoured by the pay a
corporate practice offers but often fail to see the immense hard work that goes into
the practice. There must be a very good reason other than money that makes one
want to continue to pump in some very crazy hours, bear with challenging
transaction requirements, clients who are bound to be low on patience if they are in
stressed commercial situations and to sustain it all, for days to end– it’s a time
vampire.

Associates are central to a Partner’s practice. The more they learn and give the
more they grow, the more they grow the Partner can expose them to a variety of
work. No show is a one man show, the synchronised timing and effort of the
associate team in building research knowledge, knowledge management, prompt
interactions with clients on status updates or first level drafts and so can assist the
Partner to build on the same to have deeper discussions, develop negotiation
strategies, understand commercial requirements and enhance the quality of the
practice.
HOW IMPORTANT WOULD YOU SAY ARE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
SKILLS AT SUCH HIGHER ROLES IN A CORPORATE LAW FIRM?

The role of business development is a key component in a law firm. The firm has
only one asset – its people. Amongst the people not everyone is required to
concentrate on business development but is a requirement on the senior resources.
If a senior resource can garner client confidence, provide resourcefulness and
deliver as required the firms credibility grows. The larger the pool of senior resources
the larger the palette of services the firm can successfully offer. The symbiotic
relationship of different partners in the firm are the strong links the firm builds
through its people assets in the community. I would say these skills are critical and
second to none.

HAVING A CENTRALISED HR WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT

STUDENTS WRITING TO PARTNERS DIRECTLY?

JSA is a national law firm and our internship process, recruitment process – all HR
functions are centralised. Applications are usually submitted at the internship or
careers link on our website. Sometimes, students write to partners or associates they
have met or have a relationship with through some other professional forums, while
this affords familiarity with the candidate it still depends on the requirement of the
location partners and of the firm at each level.

WHEN YOU HIRE LAWYERS UNDER YOU, WHAT SPECIFIC SKILLS

AND PROFILE DO YOU LOOK FOR?

Law school education is becoming more adept at providing attorneys with

transactional skills. Generally, however, it still falls short. When I hire for my team, I
look for students who worked extra hard to find some baseline transactional
competencies or have devised ways to achieve them through internships, reading,
taking courses at the institutes for extra focus on particular areas of law or part
timing at corporate law firms.

Given where things are in terms of corporate/transactional law practice outside of

Mumbai and Delhi and given the gap between law school education and the
transactional competencies that are required, it is incumbent upon the lawyer to be
competent and take whatever steps necessary to educate herself to become so.

Fresh graduates can build on their ability to understand business associations, basic
advice about business structures, and draft documents related to business
associations and secondly to investigate and understand facts and research the law
in a given context (emphasis on due diligence).

Working lawyers or lateral hires in addition to the above should be able to draft
clearly, have thorough research skills, be able to walk a colleague or client through
the process of identifying what the issues are, rules of law in play given the issues,
applicability of law to the issues and finally a conclusion. They must be able to also
identify and address the ethical implications of practice.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO STUDENTS WHO WISH TO GO

FOR HIGHER STUDIES?

A degree for the sake of it would serve no end. However, some are geared to
appreciating the jurisprudential thought involved and understand nuances better
when the learning is organized through curriculum while others are adept to picking it
up as they work with counsels or at law firms. A higher education abroad gives an
exposure early on in a student’s career to the different styles practices and legal
markets in the world. In my personal experience, these courses often help in wide
network of friends in different regions and a style in writing and thought that could be
unparalleled but I would not unduly overemphasise the need for a practitioner to
obtain a master of laws degree.
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO OUR READERS WHO ARE
BUDDING LAWYERS AND LAW STUDENTS?

Clarity in thought and expression is the single most important quality for a practising
lawyer today. This assists in honing the ability to identify, evaluate, and understand
business risks for clients and in turn offer appropriate legal advice. Invest in yourself
constantly, by reading and understanding the rules of law both at home and abroad,
this will enable one to compare contrast and therefore learn. The law is known to be
a jealous mistress; you will have to give a lot to get some.

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CLICK TO COMMENT

ASSOCIATES, IN-HOUSE COUNSELS & ADVOCATES

Namrata Chatterjee, Associate, Shardul

Amarchand Mangaldas, on leaving law
firm for FIFA masters, studying law at
NLU Jodhpur and cracking job
interview

ByTeam Research
Posted on July 15, 2015
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Namrata Chatterjee is a graduate from National Law University, Jodhpur (2013
batch). She worked with Amarchand Mangaldas & Suresh Shroff & Co, Delhi (now
Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas) for around two years and has just left the
organization to pursue the FIFA Master Program; a masters in humanities,
management and law of sports, on a full tuition fee waiver. We asked her to share
her law school and work experiences, and reasons for leaving one of the best jobs in
the country.

In this interview, she talks about:

 Law school experience at NLU Jodhpur and all about balancing Academics
with co-curricular
 Cracking AMSS interview, work experience at AMSS and the first year of
graduation
 Applying for the FIFA Masters programmer and qualifying for full tuition waiver

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF? COULD YOU PLEASE

SHARE A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO PURSUE LAW
AS A CAREER?

Hi, I am Namrata Chatterjee, a graduate of the 2013 batch of National Law

University, Jodhpur. I worked with Amarchand Mangaldas & Suresh Shroff & Co,
Delhi (now Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas) for around two years and have just left
the organisation to pursue the FIFA Master Program; a master in humanities,
management and law of sports, on a full scholarship (full tuition fee waiver).

To be honest, Law was never my first choice career option. I had taken up the
science stream and was preparing for the engineering entrance exams during my
XIth and XIIth standard. Though a lack of passion in the subjects I was pursuing
made me realize it would be a mistake to keep continuing down a path which
wouldn’t give me work satisfaction. Hence, I then decided to pursue law. The fact
that my father, who is in the Civil Services also has a law degree and my mother is
also a lawyer, though she left practice a long while back had me interested in the
legal profession. Though ultimately, the decision to take up law came after my elder
sister, Amrita Chatterjee commenced her legal studies at NUJS, Kolkata. Therefore,
while giving CLAT, my first choice was NUJS so that I could study in the same
college as my sister, after studying in the same school, D.P.S R.K. Puram together.

However, as luck would have it, I did not get through NUJS and made it to NLU,
Jodhpur instead. Initially I was unhappy about the same, but in hindsight I feel it was
a great thing to have happened to me as studying in a different college than my
sister gave me a lot of different exposure and surely made me much more
independent in life.

HOW DID YOU MAKE THE INITIAL SHIFT FROM A SCIENCE

BACKGROUND TO LAW? WOULD YOU SAY IT WAS DIFFICULT
SETTLING IN?

I had taken up the science stream as that was the most encouraged field to be taken
up after securing over 90% in my class Xth Board exams. Though once I did take up
science, I began to realize that a career in engineering wasn’t my real calling.
Though when I made the shift to law, there again I got the option of taking up
B.A/B.BA/B.SC (LL.B) in NLU, Jodhpur. However, this time around I decided to go
with the pure social sciences and opted for B.A LL.B (Hons). Though there was one
thing about the science stream that helped me in my legal studies and that was the
enhanced logical reasoning skills and the propensity to question. So, I would say, it
was never difficult for me to settle into legal studies.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR COLLEGE LIFE AT NLUJ. WHAT ALL

ACTIVITIES DID YOU PARTAKE IN?
In a sentence, College life at NLU, Jodhpur has given me memories of a lifetime.
Though, I took a little time to settle down in Jodhpur initially having lived in Delhi for
most part of my life. However, soon I became used to the quaint environment of
Jodhpur. NLU, Jodhpur not only stressed on academics, wherein we had continuous
assessments throughout the semester along with presentations and compulsory
court room exercises in the law subjects, it also gave ample opportunities for
interested students to take up mooting, debates, MUN’s, cultural activities and sports
among other things. In fact, if likeminded students got together, they had the
independence to start a lot of interesting activities etc. I participated in MUN’s and
paper presentations and that helped us to travel along with getting a good exposure.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU

APPROACHED ACADEMICS WHILE IN COLLEGE. PLEASE SHARE
SOME HIGHLIGHTS FROM YOUR COLLEGE DAYS THAT SHAPED
YOU AS A LAWYER.

I always took academics seriously. I maintained a good CGPA throughout the five
years. Though I’ll be honest, I did not pay attention to everything that was taught in
class always and rarely ever took notes. Rather, only subjects of my interest and
especially the classes taught by some of the teachers who made the classes rather
engaging caught my full attention. However, to prepare for the continuous tests and
exams, I always studied in groups and studied from the notes taken by my friends
and generally always fared well in the exams. I would not have specific highlights
that shaped me as a lawyer, but it was more of a gradual process, being aware of
your rights and trying to reason with the teachers and administration to convince
them, debates and discussions with my friends and finding evidence to back my
points amongst other things shaped me as a lawyer.
A LOT OF LAW STUDENTS IN THEIR FIRST AND SECOND YEAR OF
LAW SCHOOL PLAN TO CHANGE THE LEGAL REGIME OF INDIA.
MANY OF THEM PROMISE THEMSELVES TO WORK PRO-BONO ON
SOCIAL ISSUES, CURB MENACES AND THREATS TO THE SOCIETY.
HAVE YOU EVER FELT THAT KIND OF THOUGHT CROSSING YOU?

Yes, I wouldn’t deny these thoughts having crossed my mind at several occasions.
Not just during college but even when I worked at Amarchand. Sometimes a cab
driver while dropping me to the High Court would seek my legal advice or my house
maid would approach me with a legal dispute and at those moments, I kept feeling
the need to give back to the society and help the under-privileged with whatever
legal knowledge I have. However, to be able to do some pro-bono work, firstly I think
it is important to gain more knowledge, work experience and the resources to truly
be in a position to help others and yes, if possible someday if not full time, I would
hope to assist in some way in taking up pro-bono matters in whatever field I am
pursuing.

HOW DID YOU FARE IN YOUR ACADEMICS AT NLUJ? WOULD YOU

SAY A GREAT CGPA IS A NECESSITY TO KICKSTART A GOOD
CAREER IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION?

I maintained a consistent CGPA in college and stood within the top ten percent of my
batch. A good CGPA is not the only measure to secure a good career in the legal
profession. Interest in what you pursue and working hard in internships and other
extra-curricular activities help as well. However, as the recruitment scenario of the
big law firms go, if you have a good CGPA, it helps you to get shortlisted for the
interview comparatively easily. Though maintaining a good CGPA is hard work in
itself. However, that gives you the leeway from the stress of securing a PPO through
the internships. Further, moot courts, publications and such activities does help in
building a good CV, but as I can say from my own example, these things are not
necessary to secure a good job. I only participated in one moot late into my 4th year
that too since it was a moot in IPR, a subject of my interest and I did not have any
publications during law school. So, it is not necessary to participate in a lot of moots
etc. However, if you are interested in them, taking them up would be an added
benefit. However, a good CGPA and a good interview helped me to secure a job at
Amarchand.

WHICH SUBJECTS DID YOU ENJOY DURING YOUR QUALIFYING

DEGREE? HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DEVELOPING EXPERTISE AND
KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS?

I particularly enjoyed the Intellectual Property Rights and related law subjects the
most in law school. I even took up IPR as my specialisation or honours subject.
Though, even more than IPR, I was passionate about sports law. From my
childhood, I have loved sports and this field of sports law gave me a chance to
explore the interplay of sports and law. However, sports law as a subject was not
taught in my college. Therefore, to pursue my interest in the field, I constantly kept
reading websites like lawinsport and pursued internships in the field. I even
mentored some of my juniors in sports law under the academic mentorship program
initiated by some of the students in my college. In furtherance of this interest, I even
took up sports law as my seminar paper in my final semester. Even in IPR, I was
more interested in copyright and trademarks as opposed to patents and I constantly
kept reading, writing and researching on the congruence of IPR and sports law. Even
for the research paper/projects we had to develop in most of the subjects taught in
college, I would try to write them on sports related topics.
HOW DID YOU PLAN YOUR INTERNSHIPS? HOW RELEVANT DID
YOU FIND YOUR LAW SCHOOL EDUCATION WITH THE KIND OF
WORK YOU WERE REQUIRED TO DO AT LAW FIRMS?

I actively planned to take up at least one internship in a year. I never over burdened
myself with internships as I always wanted to keep some time off to spend with my
family and friends at home. However, I pursued internships keeping my interests in
mind. In my first year, I interned at NHRC, subsequently I pursued litigation
internships with advocates and law firms like Luthra & Luthra and Parekh & Co.
Though from my third year onwards, I started streamlining my internships even
further to explore and gain experience in areas I was most interested in, being IPR
and sports law. Therefore, I interned at Law Offices of Nandan Kamath, a boutique
sports law firm in Bangalore and Copyright Integrity International. I even interned
with Retd. Justice Mukul Mudgal and gained firsthand experience of interesting work
in sports law.

Law school education is the foundation to develop how you interpret the laws and
the approach towards legal thinking. Though from experience, I would say that we
learn more on the job than we learn in law school.
DID YOU FIND THAT YOUR LAW SCHOOL EDUCATION HAD
PREPARED YOU SUFFICIENTLY FOR THE MANY TASKS YOU WERE
REQUIRED TO EXECUTE DURING YOUR INTERNSHIPS AND LATER
AT YOUR JOB?

As I just said, law school education helps you to develop a legal thinking and good
researching skills. Further, the subjects that one takes interest in law school, those
subjects and certain landmark cases therein stays with us always. However, we
learn most subjects and topics on the job when we are faced with a practical
situation regarding the same. In a way, the curriculum at NLU, Jodhpur and the
continuous tests, mid-terms, vivas, projects, presentations, moots throughout the
semester prepared us to work late into the night when required and meet deadlines
in any manner and these things surely help us to be prepared with the work life and
expectations at your job.

SOON AFTER GRADUATION, YOU JOINED AMSS AS AN ASSOCIATE.

HOW DID YOUR APPOINTMENT TAKE PLACE? WHAT WORKED FOR
YOU IN SECURING THE JOB?

I got placed at AMSS at day zero of our placements that year. I had never interned at
AMSS before so did not know what to really expect there. However, I was shortlisted
for the interview based on my CV and my good CGPA I believe. I think my interview
happened very comfortably and I was confident throughout the interview and that
helped me secure the job. As also, as I have previously mentioned, a good CGPA,
some varied and good internship experiences and participation in paper
presentations and such activities helped my case.
HOW WAS THE JOB INTERVIEW? DO YOU REMEMBER ANY OF THE
QUESTIONS ASKED TO YOU? PLEASE GIVE OUR READERS SOME
TIPS TO NAIL A LAW FIRM INTERVIEW.

The first round of my job interview was the group discussion round and we got to
discuss and debate on the Indian Premier League, since I am very passionate about
sports, the topic put me at complete ease. Post the GD, we had a personal interview
round which was a mix of HR and technical questions. Though, I would really like to
mention that staying calm and comfortable in an interview really helps. Even if you
are unsure about a particular question, put it across to them that this is what you
think and tell them that on this particular point you may not be completely sure.
However, the subjects you are interested in and things mentioned in your CV about
projects or internships, those things one should be aware of while preparing for the
interview. Know your CV well and what you tell them you are interested in and at
least show that you have taken some steps towards your interest. Further, for the HR
questions don’t make up answers or take long to think and answer rather use your
wit and give appropriate answers, it would surely help.

HOW WAS YOUR FIRST YEAR AFTER GRADUATION? WHAT DO YOU

THINK WERE THE BIGGEST HURDLES AND CHALLENGES IN THE
EARLY DAYS OF YOUR CAREER? HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH THEM?

The first year, more so the first six months in your job are the most difficult. If one
can mentally survive through the challenges that come up in the initial phase of your
job, it becomes easier to handle pressure further. Since, in AMSS they had a policy
of rotation for the fresh graduates who joined them; I was placed in a corporate team
for the first phase post joining AMSS before being ultimately placed in the
litigation/dispute resolution department. However, since I was always interested in
pursuing litigation in AMSS and having never really interned in a corporate law team
in any of my previous internships, I was not very comfortable in starting my career
doing corporate law. Therefore, initially I took time to settle down, took more time to
complete assignments, though some of the seniors understanding my position really
guided me well. So, it is very important to get good seniors to guide you initially and
one should not hesitate to ask questions and soon one figures out the expectations
of their seniors and how to handle timelines without compromising quality.

WHAT KIND OF WORK AND RESPONSIBILITIES DOES AN

ASSOCIATE AT AMSS DEAL WITH?

In the first year of my time at AMSS, being in the corporate department, my work
responsibilities included research, assisting in drafting responses and opinions and
assisting in drafting due diligence reports, though once I shifted to the litigation
department, my work responsibilities increased due to shorter deadlines before court
hearings. Most of my work responsibilities included research, drafting the first draft of
some of the pleadings and counsel briefing notes as well as providing assistance in
counsel briefings and court hearings. Also, we are expected to know the files well
and be adept at paper management in briefings and hearings to aptly assist our
seniors. Due to large number of matters across various judicial forums, in a lot of
matters I got the chance to go to courts by myself for filing as well as minor
appearances.

TELL US ABOUT A CASE THAT YOU ARE PARTICULARLY PROUD

OF. WHAT STEPS DO YOU TAKE TO PREPARE FOR A DIFFICULT
CASE?

There have been one or two high profile cases I have been involved in and due to
the high stakes of those matters, it has been very interesting to work in them. The
biggest advantage I felt of working in Amarchand was the diversity of matters and
especially the big matters that we got involved in. These matters involved various
complex questions of law and gave us a chance to closely work with senior counsels
and adopt their good practices as well.

Difficult cases require extensive research and thinking out of the box. One should
always keep thinking of innovative arguments and put forth their views to their
seniors.

WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR STRATEGY TO DEAL WITH ERRORS AND

MISTAKES?

It is only human to err. Even I have made some errors and mistakes in my time at
the firm, but dealing with them and finding quick fixes is one more thing this job has
taught me. In fact, I would say along with work experience, this job has taught me
more of life experiences. In terms of mistakes, I can give an example, say, if at all I
would forget to bring copies of an important case law to the court, I would go to the
court library and secure copies of the same before the damage is done. Therefore, it
is important to reach for conferences and court a little before time and know your
bags and papers well, so that these kinds of errors can be fixed within time.
However, if you have made mistakes which you cannot easily fix, always bring it to
the notice of your seniors so that they can use their experience for crisis
management rather than hiding it from your seniors.

HOW DO YOU KEEP YOURSELF ABREAST WITH LATEST INDUSTRY

NEWS AND TRENDS?

It is indeed important to be abreast with latest news in our profession. Reading the
newspaper daily helps in this regard. So many times while researching for a case, I
can remember reading about similar cases in the newspaper and then that helps
with finding relevant and recent cases. It is also important to keep reading articles
and SCC Online etc for the latest cases especially the landmark ones that come up.
It is also very important to check the current position of law regarding every
proposition one has to argue for their case.

THERE IS A CONSIDERABLE ATTRITION RATE AT THE TOP LAW

FIRMS, WHAT DO YOU THINK CONTRIBUTES TO THIS? WHAT HAS
BEEN YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE?

The attrition rate is considerably high at the top law firms because the work pressure
is surely a lot. Also, it more so depends on the reason one enters the law firm. Some
people come to gain some good work experience before proceeding for their
masters, which is somewhat my own case as well. While some people cannot deal
with the daily demands and stringent deadlines, some people after joining realize this
is not their interest area and move towards what they are really interested in.
However, this is true that if one wants a less hectic life and most of their weekends
free and finds it difficult to maintain the quality of work in extremely short deadlines,
then it is difficult to continue in a big law firm.
Personally also, after working here for around two years, I am now moving on to
pursue my masters in a field which I have always been keenly interested in, i.e
sports law. I applied to colleges and courses specifically providing for masters in IPR
or sports law and applied and secured admission to University of Zurich, ISDE
Madrid, George Washington University and the FIFA Master program and even
secured a scholarship everywhere. So once I received the full scholarship (full tuition
fee waiver) at the FIFA Master program, I knew it was time for me to pursue a field I
am more interested in and the experience at Amarchand would definitely help me
everywhere ahead. So, my reason for leaving the organisation was that though I was
doing good litigation work, it did not involve a lot of sports related disputes and I
wanted to always pursue my masters post getting a couple of years work
experience.

LIFE FOR LAWFIRMITES CAN BE VERY HECTIC AT TIMES. WHAT IS

YOUR TAKE ON WORK-LIFE BALANCE? HOW DO YOU UNWIND?

Yes, life at a law firm is hectic but during court vacations, things are less hectic and
most people take their leaves at that time. I feel it is very important to have a work
life balance; otherwise one tends to lose interest in their work and is busy dealing
with deadlines and stress rather than enjoying what they do. So, as much as
possible one should relax as well as go out with their family and friends on the
weekends and try and avoid getting work back home, unless the situation really
demands for it. Even in office, one should take small breaks to interact with their
friends and walk around a bit to avoid sitting at their desk at a stretch for long hours.

HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO LEAVE A CUSHY LAW FIRM JOB FOR THE
FIFA MASTERS PROGRAMME? PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE
PROGRAMME AND HOW YOU GOT GRAVITATED TOWARDS IT.
I agree, it isn`t an easy decision to make when it comes to leaving a secured and
well paying job for an uncertain path. However, I did what I feel will give me the right
platform to pursue my field of interest.

I have been a sports buff since my childhood. My father always found a partner in
me to watch matches with him and then engage in endless discussions about
various players and game strategies! Therefore, once I took law, it was only natural
that sports law caught my attention the most. Now, to try and succeed in a sports
related field, it is important that I obtain the right exposure and specialised
knowledge. In that regard, the FIFA master fit my requirements perfectly.

The FIFA master program is an international M.A teaching three different aspects
which form the core of working in a sports related field, being humanities of sports,
management of sports and law in sports.

The first module is the humanities module which takes place in DeMontfort
University, Leicester and covers aspects relating to the history and development of
sports and sports organizations. The second module is the management module and
is held at SDA Bocconi school of Management, Milan and the last module of the 10
months program is the law module dealing with the legal aspects of sports, dispute
resolution, ethical issues in sports etc, to be held at University of Neuchatel,
Switzerland. The final degree is awarded by all the three partner universities in
association with CIES and FIFA.

Along with the classroom teaching and guest lectures, the program also includes
field visits to various sports clubs and organizations like FIFA, UEFA etc in order to
learn about their fuctioning, marketing, governing regulations etc from the relevant
experts.

I have decided to undertake this program as along with sports law, this also widens
my arena to cover management of sports which are upcoming fields in India and
post completion of this masters, hopefully I would be able to contribute to further
developments in these fields.
HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO GET A FULL TUITION FEE WAIVER?
COULD YOU PLEASE DETAIL THE PROCEDURE IN DETAILS?

The option to apply for the scholarship is present in the main application itself and
the selection procedure for the course takes place in two stages. If one is shortlisted
based on the application, they then have to give an interview to be finally selected.
So, during my interview I was told that they generally do not give the full tuition fee
waiver scholarship to one person rather look towards dividing it amongst a few
students. However, post the interview which wasn`t really a technical one, when I
was finally informed of my selection, I was also informed that I have been awarded
the full tuition fee waiver. The scholarship is given on the basis of need as well as
merit.

THE QUESTION THAT WHETHER ONE SHOULD SPECIALISE IN A

PARTICULAR AREA OF LAW OR BE MORE OF A GENERAL LAWYER
OFTEN COMES UP BEFORE LAW STUDENTS. WHAT IS YOUR
OPINION ON THE SAME?

I am going to pursue the FIFA Master program which in itself is a very specialised
and unique course. This is a program organised by CIES and FIFA and taught by
three partner universities being De Montfort University, SDA Bocconi School of
Management and University of Neuchatel across England, Italy and Switzerland
respectively. This program teaches the most relevant inter-disciplinary fields related
to sports-humanities, management and law of sports. This program would surely
enhance my knowledge and interest of sports law and along with it would also open
the ambit of sports management if I choose to pursue the same. I agree, leaving a
secure job and going to do something so niche might be a bit of a risk. However, I
believe one should at least try to pursue what they love rather than keep regrets in
life. So, particularly I feel if one has figured that they are interested in a specific field
over the others and performs their best while dealing with work in that area then they
would always enjoy what they do and get appropriate outcomes too. Working on
laws that one does not find interesting, like I never enjoyed corporate laws doesn’t
help in one’s growth and development as a lawyer. So, it is important to start as a
general lawyer but if you feel there are some areas you enjoy more than the others, I
would suggest and encourage one to pursue them further.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE TO LAW STUDENTS?

Work hard, enjoy what you do and don’t be afraid to take risks and explore options.

Share the knowledge!

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Roshan Gopalakrishna graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2008 with a keen

interest in sports and entertainment law. He is currently the Chief Legal Counsel at
Copyright Integrity International and Senior Associate at the Law Offices of Nandan
Kamath. He has advised the International Cricket Council on rights protection and is
also a member of the Taskforce set up by the Karnataka Knowledge Commission to
draft a comprehensive Sports Policy for the State. In this interview he talks about:
  Pursuing sports and entertainment law.
 Representing India at the Australia-India Youth Dialogue 2015.
 Working at CII and the Law Offices of Nandan Kamath.

OUR READERS CONSIST OF LAW ASPIRANTS, LAW STUDENTS AND

YOUNG LAWYERS. HOW WILL YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO
THEM?

Hello everyone. I’m a sports and entertainment lawyer with 7 years of experience in
advising various stakeholders in sport. I graduated from the National Law School of
India University in 2008. A large part of my life revolves around sport, and I hope it
continues to stay that way!

TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD AND PRE-COLLEGE LIFE

AS WELL AS EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND. DO YOU HAVE
LAWYERS IN YOUR FAMILY?

I was born in the coastal town of Karwar, Karnataka. Apart from being a place of
great natural beauty, (the Western Ghats, the Kali river and the Arabian Sea all meet
here) Karwar is famous for two things (i) Project Seabird – which will develop into the
largest naval base east of the Suez Canal (ii) inspiring Rabindranath Tagore to pen
Prakritir Pratishodha (Nature’s Revenge). Tagore’s brother Satyendranath was a
district judge in Karwar in the 1880s. In Tagore’s words – “The sea beach of Karwar
is certainly a fit place in which to realize that the beauty of Nature is not a mirage of
the imagination, but reflects the joy of the Infinite and thus draws us to lose
ourselves in it. Where the universe is expressing itself in the magic of its laws it may
not be strange if we miss its infinitude; but where the heart gets into immediate touch
with immensity in the beauty of the meanest of things, is any room left for
argument?”
I was born into a family of doctors on my mother’s side and civil servants on my
father’s side. There were absolutely NO lawyers on either side of the immediate
family. As my father was a civil servant, we were able to experience life in many
districts across Karnataka. As a devout follower of the state syllabus, I completed the
SSLC from Sri Ramakrishna Vidyashala Mysore, one of Karnataka’s best residential
schools for boys, and II PUC (Science Stream) from the Government PU College,
Chikkamagalur.

IN INDIA THERE IS BIT OF RESISTANCE TOWARDS LEGAL

EDUCATION EVEN NOW. WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW
AS A CAREER?

I think I realised early on (around 8th standard – I was an early thinker!) that I did not
have the aptitude required for a career in medicine or engineering. The larger issue
was that it took an additional 2-3 years for me to figure out what exactly it was that I
wanted to do. At boarding school in Mysore, the correspondent Rev. Sw.
Muktidanandaji and the warden Rev. Sw. Atmashraddhanandaji suggested that a
career in law and specifically at NLSIU would be a good option given my inherent
qualities.

My parents were extremely supportive of my decision and it helped that my father

was aware of NLSIU’s reputation from his time as the Registrar of Bangalore
University in the 90s. After that it was a matter of focussing on the NLSIU entrance
and hoping for some divine intervention.

HOW DID YOU GET THROUGH TO NLSIU?

Ah, after two years of trying!

I attempted the NLSIU entrance exam in 2001 for the first time, and ended up with a
rank in the top 100 or so, but missed the cut-off of 115 by about 4-5 marks. It was
particularly devastating as I had no back-up option and I knew that some of the haste
that I showed in the last 15 minutes of the test had proved to be my undoing. So
while my father was posted in Chikkamagalur district, I basically just spent a whole
year reading, playing cricket and badminton, and ‘preparing’.

Wiser, I attempted the NUJS and NLSIU entrance tests in 2002. The result of the
NUJS entrance test was shocking to say the least. I ranked second overall! While I
was undoubtedly pleased as punch, unfortunately, it also brought out one of my
worst qualities – hubris, and I just assumed that I’d waltz through the NLSIU
entrance as well. The NLSIU entrance test of 2002 was probably the toughest in the
history of the institution. The topper scored 99/200! Yours truly was ranked 62,
basically bottom of the waiting list.

The academic term at NUJS started a month in advance of the term at NLSIU. As I
had already paid the fees, I joined NUJS in June 2002 (Kolkata during the 2002 FIFA
World Cup that Brazil won, beat that!). As fate would have, an opening at NLSIU in
mid-July meant that I was able to join NLSIU at last, by the skin of my teeth no less.

TELL US ABOUT THE PLACES YOU HAVE INTERNED AT. DID YOU
PLAN YOUR INTERNSHIPS THROUGHOUT LAW SCHOOL?

At NLSIU, the 2-month break internships are largely structured as follows – first year
and second year: usually NGOs or non-legal, third year: trial courts, fourth year:
appellate courts and fifth year: usually with a law firm or a company.

I followed this roadmap for the large part. More so since at NLSIU the trial court +
appellate court + fifth year internship count towards a grade. Once I realised that my
interests were in the sports ecosystem, I pro-actively sought opportunities to work at
sports management companies, leading to internships with Mahesh Bhupathi’s
Globosport, the Organising Committee of the Sony Ericsson International Bangalore
2007 (a WTA tier 3 tournament) and with Mr. Vinod Naidu – Sachin Tendulkar’s
manager. Further, I was also able to convince members of the faculty at NLSIU to
include sports related topics in the list of project topics allotted to students (IPR,
ADR, Business Contracts, etc.). I guess this was a fun way of getting the most out of
your passion and your profession.

CURRENTLY, YOU ARE WORKING AT TWO BOUTIQUE FIRMS CII

AND THE LAW OFFICES OF NANDAN KAMATH THAT ARE NOW
WIDELY REGARDED AS THE BEST FIRMS FOR IPR PROTECTION
AND SPORTS LAW IN INDIA. PLEASE WALK US THROUGH YOUR
WORK PROFILE IN BOTH OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS.

I joined CII and LawNK on June 1, 2009. On graduation from NLSIU in 2008, I
headed to Melbourne to work with a law firm. Changes to the requirements for Indian
lawyers to qualify locally in the state of Victoria (studying 11 Australian law subject to
qualify, as opposed to 3-4 in 2007-08) meant that I headed back to familiar shores
earlier than I had planned. I also managed to gain 2-3 months of experience
consulting for an advisory company engaged in the Australia-India space.
At LawNK, I was the firm’s first associate. At CII I was given the opportunity to build
the company’s trademark monitoring practice. The clinching factors were (i) the
opportunity to work in Indian sport (ii) a chance to work with Mr. Nandan Kamath,
India’s premier sports law practitioner.

Both choices have been equally rewarding! I currently occupy the role of Chief Legal
Counsel at CII and Senior Associate at LawNK. In addition, I also provide pro bono
legal assistance to the GoSports Foundation. CII is now one of the world’s premier
rights protection agencies, and LawNK has been ranked amongst the 50 best
boutique law firms in Asia, the 50 best IP law firms in India and was officially
appointed to provide legal advice to the ICC on commercial matters during the CWC
2011.

YOU HAVE ADVISED ICC [INTERNATIONAL CRICKET COUNCIL] ON

ANTI-PIRACY AND RIGHTS PROTECTION ITS FLAGSHIP EVENTS
(CWC, CHAMPIONS TROPHY, WORLD T20). WHAT HAS YOUR
EXPERIENCE BEEN?

CII has been the ICC’s Rights Protection Partner since the ICC World Twenty20
2009. Our mandate is simple. We work with the ICC’s legal team in protecting the
legal sanctity of the ICC’s 3 major revenue streams – ticketing, broadcast and
sponsorship.

Typically for an event such as the CWC, our work starts about 4-5 months in
advance of the event. We dedicate teams of between 2-8 individuals for specific
online, off-line and on-ground monitoring roles – monitoring live broadcast, highlight
videos, trademark infringement, etc. and look to resolve infringements without the
need for litigation. A large part of our efforts are focussed on educating the public on
the permissible and impermissible use of the ICC’s IPR. Towards this end, we issue
various public advisory documents and articles in newspapers. Personally, I have
been able to lead the on-ground efforts at stadia in Bangalore (CWC 2011) and
Chittagong (WT20 2014).

TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE, BEING A PART OF THE

TASKFORCE SET UP BY THE KARNATAKA KNOWLEDGE
COMMISSION TO DRAFT A COMPREHENSIVE SPORTS POLICY FOR
THE STATE.

Well, for one, this has made my parents, in-laws and wife (in no particular order!)
extremely proud!

The Karnataka Knowledge Commission is a high powered commission constituted in

September 2008 under the Chairmanship of Dr. Kasturirangan with an overarching
aim of transforming Karnataka into a vibrant knowledge society. Each state in India
now realises the importance of sport, and the taskforce is certainly the first concerted
attempt by the GoK to address the lack of a comprehensive policy on the subject.
The focus of the policy is to enable citizens to start, stay and succeed in sport, at
various levels and support excellence, while using certain parts of Karnataka’s
proven strengths (IT, BT, ITes, higher education) to create a strong system to
administer and develop sport in the state. We hope to release the sports policy in a
few months.

WHAT CONTRIBUTED TO YOUR SELECTION AS AN INDIAN

DELEGATE FOR THE AUSTRALIA INDIA YOUTH DIALOGUE 2015?

The AIYD is the pre-eminent track two dialogue between young leaders from
Australia and India. It was set up in 2009, around the time that Indian students were
falling victim to attacks in Australia, with a view to get young leaders in both
countries to interact and, in the long term, to increase cultural exchange and
awareness. Each year AIYD brings together 15 Australian and 15 Indian young
leaders who are experts in their fields of business, arts, academia, diplomacy,
government, science and sport to discuss opportunities and challenges significant to
the Australia-India relationship.

As sport is one of the focus areas for the AIYD, and we have a lot of blue-chip sports
clients based in Australia, I was able to indicate consistent engagement in the
Australia-India space, and an ability to contribute to mutual co-operation (Australia
has released a Sports Diplomacy Strategy 2015-18 which presents huge
opportunities to develop sport at various levels in India). My Australian counterpart
(on the sport side) was Lisa Sthalekar, arguably the greatest female cricketer of all
time!

YOU ARE A REGULAR CONTRIBUTOR TO SPORTZLAW MONTHLY

AND LAWINSPORT.COM ON ISSUES RELATING TO LAW AND
SPORT. HOW DO YOU KEEP YOURSELF UPDATED OF THE RECENT
DEVELOPMENTS IN THE FIELD OF SPORTS LAW AND
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS?

Just to clarify, these are not research papers or academic articles! The articles that
the team at LawNK has published are an attempt to capture the present position on
the inter-play between Indian law and sport on various issues, and to explain the
position in a manner that is easy to read for students, marketers, etc. We’re happy
that our articles go some way in bridging the knowledge gap when it comes to law
and sport in the Indian context. For those interested, the articles are available at –
https://lawnk.wordpress.com.

Twitter is my favourite source for information on sport, law and business.

AS A CONCLUDING MESSAGE, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR
SUGGESTIONS TO LAW STUDENTS/YOUNGER CORPORATE
LAWYERS?

Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I hope your readers find it informative. The
sports, media and entertainment industries in India need good, motivated,
knowledgeable and commercially savvy lawyers. To end, I’d like to quote Wayne
Gretzky – “you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take”. So got out there, and take
your shot!

Prem Jumani graduated with B.Com. degree from Mumbai University before joining
GLC, Mumbai in 2008. Meanwhile he also managed to pursue CS degree. While
pursuing law, he worked at Shree Ram Urban Infrastructure Limited as an Assistant
Company Secretary.Soon after graduation, he started working at Batliboi Ltd as an
Executive – Legal & Secretarial. Thereafter, he also worked at Kamal & Co.
Advocates, Solicitors & Notary and Solomon & Co. Advocates & Solicitors. In
2014, he joined ALMT Legal as an Associate in their Banking & Finance and General
Corporate team. In the same year, he was awarded with the title of Rising Star of
the 2014 Corporate Intl Magazine Global Award as ‘Corporate Compliance Lawyer of
the Year in India’.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO STUDY LAW? WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO

DO SO? HOW DID YOU GET THROUGH TO GLC, MUMBAI?

My dad was a biggest inspiration for me, who made choose law as my career.
Initially I took up law as a supportive degree to Company Secretary (CS). A law with
CS is a very good combination for a corporate lawyer. Luckily my score on the board
after my commerce graduation in 2008 was good enough to make my place in the
merit list of GLC. Since GLC is the oldest law school of Mumbai and holds a huge
reputation of building good lawyers it was my first preference in Mumbai.

WHAT WERE YOUR AREAS OF INTEREST DURING YOUR

GRADUATION? HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DEVELOPING EXPERTISE
AND KNOWLEDGE IN THESE AREAS?

My interest was always corporate and commercial laws as I was pursuing CS during
my graduation. I was interning with one of the leading infrastructure listed company
which gave me a good base of corporate secretarial and capital market practice.
Later on, as and when I moved ahead the attitude of ‘never say never’ helped me to
get opportunities to do good amount of matters like private equity, acquisitions,
banking finance and litigation.

WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE PERCEPTION THAT STUDENTS OF

CERTAIN ‘ELITE’ NLU’S HAVE A MUCH EASIER TIME IN KICK-
STARTING THEIR CAREER AS COMPARED TO LAW STUDENTS
FROM OTHER COLLEGES? IS THIS TRUE AT ALL?

Yes, it matters quite alot from which college one has done a graduation, but at the
same time it may not possible for everyone to get into NLSIU or NLU. For getting a
good start it is preferable that law students must do internships from second year
onwards or even sign solicitors, if they wish to do so.

AFTER GRADUATION, YOU JOINED BATLIBOI LTD. AS AN

EXECUTIVE – LEGAL & SECRETARIAL AND LATER SWITCHED TO
ASSIST MR. BULCHANDANI – COUNSEL AT HIGH COURT. WHAT
WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR WORK AT BOTH THESE PLACES? HOW
WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR WORK EXPERIENCE AS?

My role at Batliboi Limited was more of corporate secretarial than legal. I felt that a
job of company secretary was more of monotonous than a challenging work, I
always enjoyed the legal assignments I use to get, but the scope of work was very
limited in Batliboi for me. It was then a point of realisation for me that I want be a
lawyer and take up the challenging assignments.

Thus the hunt for finding a place in a law firm law started for me, but it was never
easy for me to get in the law firms initially. I had never interned with any of the law
firms earlier. After getting rejected by almost all the top tier law firms, I got a chance
to assist Mr. Bulchandani in litigation matters at Hon’ble High Court of Mumbai and
that’s how I did litigation.

At the chambers of Mr. Bulchandani my work profile was to support him in each and
every matter that was handled by him. I was given an opportunity to work on various
matters with a wide scope. I generally use to assist him for High Court and
Arbitration matters or even SEBI matter. At times I was pushed for appearing
independently in small matters and I was developing a confidence in handling
matters at trial courts. The work experience was undoubtedly fantastic with Mr.
Bulchandani, but a pinch of moving from a handsome salary of Batliboi to a stipend
was really big for me.

YOU ALSO HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK AS AN ASSOCIATE-

CORPORATE LAWYER AT SOLOMON & CO. ADVOCATES &
SOLICITORS. WHAT KIND OF WORK YOU WERE ENTRUSTED WITH
AT SOLOMON AND CO.?

The work profile at Solomon & Co. was again very enormous for me. I had an
opportunity to do vide range of matters like acquisitions, Indian Entry, corporate
compliance, litigation, capital markets, private equity, etc. Above all Mr. Aaron
Solomon is a very sharp lawyer and gem person to work with and I really admire him
as a lawyer.

CURRENTLY YOU WORK AS AN ASSOCIATE IN THE GENERAL

CORPORATE AND BANKING FINANCE TEAM OF ALMT LEGAL,
MUMBAI. HOW DID YOU APPOINTMENT TAKE PLACE? WHAT DO
THEY LOOK FOR IN THEIR PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEES?

My appointment in ALMT was by way of a chance, there was a panel of 4 partners

who interviewed me and subsequently within a week I got selected and was asked to
join the firm. ALMT is a good growing law firm and gives a chance to lot of young
lawyers a good platform to build their base. One needs to be honest, sincere and
hard working for a good future and ALMT expects the same from its associates.

WHAT KIND OF WORK AND RESPONSIBILITIES GENERALLY AN

ASSOCIATE AT ALMT LEGAL DEALS WITH? WHAT IS A TYPICAL
WORKDAY LIKE?

We generally deal with end to end responsibility in a transaction so right from a stage
one to the closing of transaction everything is been handled by an associate. As far
as what work a associate handles depends upon his or her expertise and interest.

At times it’s hectic and we don’t even get a breathing space as any other law firm,
but sometimes when we are light on work we make lots of news flash and update
ourselves.
WHAT IS THE CURRENT SCENARIO OF STUDYING CORPORATE
LAW AS A CAREER OPTION IN INDIA? WHAT ARE THE KEY
QUALITIES ONE SHOULD POSSES FOR BECOMING A CORPORATE
LAWYER?

Corporate law has a very scope and includes various verticals of practice like private
equity, capital markets, M&A, banking finance, corporate secretarial, tax practice,
etc. In order to be a corporate lawyer one needs to have an interest and willingness
of doing this subjects and it is better to have an additional qualification of a CA or CS
or even MBL (Masters of Business Laws) which can give a good base.

WHAT HAVE BEEN THE HIGHLIGHTS OF YOUR JOB SO FAR? WHAT

DOES IT TAKE TO BE A GOOD CORPORATE LAWYER?

I believe the diversity of matters is the major highlight of my career so far, as I have
worked as a litigator, company secretary, private equity lawyer, capital markets
lawyer and at time banking lawyer.

Corporate law is not a rocket science but it takes smart and hard work plus a handy
knowledge of subjects like contact law, CPC, companies act, SEBI, banking laws,
etc. to be a good corporate lawyer.

WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR STRATEGY TO DEAL WITH ERRORS AND

MISTAKES? HOW WOULD YOU SUGGEST A YOUNG ASSOCIATE TO
DEAL WITH THEM?

Errors and mistakes are the part and parcels of your life, you can’t avoid them and
that’s the only way to gain experience. The strategy is to overcome the mistakes by
analysing and understanding them and not running away from a situation.
HOW DO YOU THINK A CS DEGREE CAN PROVE TO BE USEFUL IN A
LAWYER’S CAREER IN THE CURRENT AS WELL AS FUTURE
MARKET?

Undoubtedly, CS qualifications help alot in understanding and dealing the situation.

CS syllabus helps you to learn subjects of capital market and general corporate in-
depth plus a qualification which gives you some accounting and finance knowledge.
Though we lawyers do not concentrate on figures much, it helps me to understand
better in client meetings at times.

HOW DO YOU MANAGE TO STRIKE A BALANCE BETWEEN YOUR

PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL LIFE?

Its quiet simple for me because me and my wife both are in the same field and
understand each other quiet well. We generally spend good weekends together
which help us to manage our personal life better.

WHAT DO YOU FEEL MAKES AN INTERN STAND OUT AND IS VERY

IMPORTANT FOR HIM TO DO TO HAVE A CHANCE OF GETTING A
CALL BACK OR EVEN A PPO?

Internship in ALMT depends upon the requirements from time to time. A hard work is
very important, one needs to ask alot of questions and analyse each and everything
in the manner to understand why the things are done in particular way.
GIVEN A CHANCE TO TURN BACK THE CLOCK WOULD YOU HAVE
DONE ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY FROM WHAT YOU’VE DONE?

I realised lot of things late in my life. I wasted lots of initial days, which I feel could
have turned around my career a bit.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO A LAW STUDENT WHO IS

YET TO DECIDE HIS/HER CAREER?

Internships and hard work are the key to success for future.

Pratik Bakshi, Business Development Associate, J. Sagar Associates, on

launching World Law Forum, and resolving Business and Human Rights
disputes through arbitration
degree before practising at the Supreme Court. She was awarded with the “Scroll of
Honour” for “Promising New Advocate of the Year” by the Hon’ble President of India
at the International Conference of Jurists. She then worked at United Lex, Gurgaon,
followed by the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus, Los Angeles and Clifford Chance LLP,
New York. She is currently studying for her LL.M from Cornell University.
In this interview she talks about:

 Studying law at Delhi University.

 Being a Senior Associate at CPA Global.
 LL.M from Cornell University.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF? TELL US A BIT

ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD AND PRE-COLLEGE LIFE AS WELL AS
EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.

I am a simple girl who believes in traditional values while possessing a modern

outlook. I am from Cuttack, Odisha. As a child I travelled quite a bit, and got to visit a
lot of countries since my father is a Merchant Navy Captain. Travelling all over the
world from such an early age helped me to develop a very wide and tolerant
perspective about life and people in general.

During the course of such travels I also made many friends globally and understood
different cultures and way of life. At the same time my values as imparted by my
parents, helped me to be very grounded and from a very early age I learnt to take
deep pride in the diversity and magnitude of our Indian culture and traditions while
respecting every other culture in the world. Part of my primary schooling was in
Singapore from the Siglap Education Centre. When I was seven, we shifted back to
Bhubaneswar, Odisha where I completed my higher secondary studies and was the
state topper.

Later my family shifted to Delhi. My inherent love for English made me complete my
higher studies in English Literature with Honors and distinction and my childhood
desire to be a lawyer made me study LL.B, which I passed with good grades and
high merit. Currently I am completing my Masters in Laws (LL.M) from Cornell
University in New York, USA.

HOW DID YOUR INTEREST GRAVITATE TOWARDS LAW?

My family has always encouraged me to be a lawyer. Two of my uncles are lawyers,

and so was my grandfather. Books have always been my greatest influence after my
parents. The subject of law and imparting justice has always fascinated me through
my readings of various books on the subject. As a child I was absolutely caught up
with Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, and Perry Mason while as a teenager I
enjoyed reading Catherine Barnard’s ‘What About Law’ and Amartya Sen’s ‘The Idea
of Justice’. Back then I perceived the law as an indestructible, infallible weapon
which had the power of liberating the society from all kinds of misdeeds. Although as
a teenager I did get a little cynical about the judicial system, nevertheless I always
had this belief, which was strengthened as an adult, that no matter what, the law
when used by the right people in the right manner has tremendous potential to bring
forth the right result and guide society in the right direction. I could join my father’s
business, I could be an astronaut, an actress, a model, an engineer etc. In short I
could do anything and be anybody. But if there was any profession which allowed
me to be in control of my life and at the same time possess the power to help people
and society, it was the legal profession. As a lawyer I could have the freedom of
interpreting the law in the manner I wanted and then implement it for the betterment
of society. And that’s the very reason why I chose this profession.

YOU HAVE COMPLETED YOUR LAW GRADUATION FROM DELHI

UNIVERSITY. TELL US ABOUT YOUR LAW SCHOOL EXPERIENCE
AND THE CO-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES YOU TOOK PART IN?

Studying law at Delhi University was one of the best and most memorable
experiences of my life. More than anything else, it brought me in contact with people
from extremely diverse ages, economic backgrounds and social beliefs. One of my
classmates at the Faculty of Law was a 69 year old gentleman who was a doctor by
profession, but wanted to study and understand the Indian law since he was going
through some property dispute with his brothers. Then there was this lady who was a
teacher at a primary school but wanted to study law so as to get a better paying job
as a lawyer in order to support her family, who were entirely dependent on her. My
educational experience at Delhi University was truly an eye opener for me, in the
sense that I got to see and understand different people, all belonging to the Indian
society yet each was so different from the other. Their differences added colour and
variety to the atmosphere at Delhi University, which I don’t think can be found at any
other educational campus. I was the convenor for the legal aid society and also
headed the dramatic club. Both these roles were extremely enriching. As the
convenor of the legal aid society I arranged legal aid camps for the slum dwellers at
Yamuna Pushta and as the head of the dramatic society I arranged street plays
addressing sensitive, yet less talked about issues in our society like female
infanticide, domestic violence and incest. I love debating and was in charge of the
debating society for some time where I participated in and arranged college and
inter-college debate competitions.

WHAT SKILLS DID YOU GET TO HONE AS THE SECRETARY OF THE

STUDENT’S DEBATING ASSOCIATION AND DRAMATIC SOCIETY
AND ALSO AS A CONVENER OF THE LEGAL AID SOCIETY?

More than anything else my involvement in these societies made me a people’s

person and a team player. Today these are the two skills which have helped me
forge lasting friendships and be a good listener while being able to work effectively
as a lawyer amongst different kinds of people.

AFTER YOUR GRADUATION, YOU WORKED IN THE SUPREME

COURT. WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR PERSPECTIVE OF LITIGATION IN
INDIA? HAVE YOU FOUND IN OVERRATED IN ANY WAY?

Sadly the field of litigation in India is quite gender biased and dynasty based. Gender
biased in the sense that even today while the courts give judgments for empowering
women, yet the very same lawyers at these courts look down on practising female
advocates and belittle their talent and knowledge. Unless you are a woman
belonging to a very reputed legal based family, it is almost extremely difficult to make
a decent entry into the field of litigation. Which reminds me of the admiration,
adulation and work opportunities which are bestowed on some freshers, only
because of their connection to such reputed legal families, while there are lawyers
who slog away their entire life finding clients willing to pay them a decent amount in
exchange for their services. Still, I don’t think litigation is an overrated career option.
There are always exceptions to the rule and I also firmly believe in hard work paying
off sooner or later. Like I said earlier that no matter what, the law when used by the
right people in the right manner has the tremendous potential to bring forth the right
result and guide society in the right direction. What matters is that the right people
should not give up.

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH REGARD TO

YOUR FIRST FEW SESSIONS IN COURT. HAS IT BECOME MORE
DIFFICULT FOR A FRESHER TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS?

There is an immense sense of responsibility, pride and self satisfaction when you are
standing in front of a judge to a packed courtroom and fighting for your client’s rights.
In the current scenario, yes it is definitely becoming more and more difficult for
freshers to achieve immediate success in this field, unless you are extremely well
connected. However, hard work, patience and perseverance coupled with ambition
always bears fruition in the long run, if not immediately.

WHAT WAS THE ROLE OF A MENTOR IN YOUR CASE? HOW

IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK A MENTOR IS IN THE FIELD OF
LITIGATION?

Frankly, I had no mentor, except my parents who have always been my greatest
source of motivation and support. Since I had no mentor, I personally cannot speak
about it, since I personally don’t know about it. But yes, speaking pragmatically, a
good word of recommendation always helps in advancing your career in any field
and the field of litigation is no exception to this rule. But then again, if you are
talented, ambitious and hard working you can still make a mark without any mentor.
WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO LEAVE YOUR LITIGATION PRACTICE
AND JOIN UNITED LEX AN LPO?

Although my family is extremely well connected both politically and many of my

family members hold reputed positions in the legal field, yet my parents were
absolutely clear from the day I joined the legal profession, that no matter what, they
would never ask any of their connections for any professional assistance for my
career. I agreed with my parents and respected them for this decision. At the same
time it was extremely difficult for me to get interesting cases in order to further my
career, because without having anybody to vouch for my credentials it was extremely
difficult to get important cases. Also, truthfully speaking I was getting bored with the
simple quality of the cases I was asked to deal with, while my seniors took charge of
the more challenging ones. It was at this point that I got an offer from United Lex
asking me to join their corporate department and provide legal services to their
overseas client British Telecom. Apart from being extremely interesting, the job
profile was something which I had not done before. Hence I took the bait and joined
United Lex as Associate for Contract Management.

YOU HAVE WORKED FOR ONE YEAR AT UNITED LEX. WHAT HAD
CONTRIBUTED TOWARDS THIS APPOINTMENT? TELL US ABOUT
YOUR WORK PROFILE AT UNITED LEX.

LPOs have a very tight budget which depends entirely on their international/national
clients. Depending on this budget LPOs determine the salaries of their employees.
That’s one of the reasons why LPOs rank number one in hiring freshers because
then they do not have to pay these freshers higher salaries. Since I was in the
litigation field and had no corporate experience, I was treated as a fresher by United
Lex and my remuneration was paid according to the industry standards of a fresher.
At the same time I had the knowledge and confidence required for this role and that
contributed towards my appointment.
Working at United Lex was a very good experience. As an Associate of Contract
Management, my responsibilities encompassed handling the entire contract lifecycle
management process which included reviewing of complex agreements, and drafting
and negotiating a wide variety of agreements ranging from NDAs, MSAs,
Procurement Agreements, Framework Agreements, Software License Agreements,
etc. each of which were unique in their structure and level of complexity. The work
experience at United Lex was very dynamic and interesting.

AFTER UNITED LEX, YOU WENT ON TO THE UNIVERSITY OF

CALIFORNIA, LOS ANGELES (LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA,
U.S.A.) AS A VISITING SCHOLAR. HOW DID YOU GET APPOINTED
AT UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AS A VISITING SCHOLAR? WHAT
WAS YOUR ROLE AND WHAT ARE THE RESPONSIBILITIES YOU
WERE ENTRUSTED AS A VISITING SCHOLAR?

As a legal counsel for my father’s business venture, I had to travel a lot to Los
Angeles where one of our clients had their offices. While there, one of my relatives
told me about UCLA’s course for visiting scholars. Since I had to be there for many
months at a time, I decided to look this up online and later visited the campus. The
course was fast paced and quite interesting. It would add value to my Resume apart
from increasing my knowledge. There were no formal certifications as such, except a
transcript of all the subjects which I studied there. Since I was not getting any formal
certification, yet I was taking classes with the LL.M and JD students and I was also
giving the exams, my designation was that of a Visiting Scholar. UCLA comes up
with these exchange programmes and summer courses which are really good
because you get to learn about international law without getting hassled about
degrees and certificates. Since I was in Los Angeles primarily as legal counsel for
my father’s organization, I really didn’t have too much time to take on added
responsibilities at UCLA. It was mostly work, study and seeing the lovely places in
Los Angeles. It was a cool experience and Los Angeles was a beautiful place.

YOU HAVE ALSO WORKED AT THE LAW OFFICES OF IRENEO A

REUS (LOS ANGELES, USA) AS A PARALEGAL FOR FOUR MONTHS.
HOW DID YOU APPLY? WHAT DID YOUR WORK PROFILE CONSIST
OF?

While at Los Angeles, I thought it would be a good idea to work for an international
law firm and get an idea how the legal process works in the US. I looked up for any
vacancies at law firms in Los Angeles through online U.S. employment portals and
came across this opportunity at the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus. I applied online
and was selected after being interviewed. My work profile involved mostly
researching on core legal issues and assisting the senior attorneys with drafting and
vetting of complex legal contracts, conducting comparison, risk analysis, and due
diligence of complex contracts.

WHAT DOES BEING A PARALEGAL MEAN? HOW DIFFERENT IS IT

FROM BEING AN ASSOCIATE AT A LAW FIRM?

Paralegals are not allowed to offer legal services directly to the public on their own
and must perform their legal work under the supervision of a senior associate.
Usually lawyers who work in a foreign country are initially hired as paralegals
because they do not have the requisite knowledge and understanding of that
country’s law and legal process. Hence they are not permitted to give legal
counselling or take up cases in courts for the clients. Where an associate is
expected to deal with the entire legal process at an organization, from counselling
clients, to going to courts and drafting contracts and negotiating, a paralegal’s work
is only limited to giving assistance to the associates on various legal issues.

THEREAFTER, YOU HAVE ALSO WORKED AS A SUMMER

ASSOCIATE AT CLIFFORD CHANCE LLP (NEW YORK, USA). WHAT
DOES SUMMER ASSOCIATE MEAN? HOW IS THIS POSITION
VALUABLE TO A LAW STUDENT?

A summer associate is just another synonym for an intern in the US. As a

designation, a summer associate of course sounds cooler than an intern. Summer
associates are current law students who are interning at a law firm or organization
for the summer. Summer associates have not passed the bar exam and are not
lawyers. This position holds the same value as that of an intern. It’s not a job
guarantee but if you are interning at a reputed law firm or organization, the brand
name looks great on the Resume and can attract prospective employers into calling
you for an interview. Also if you have worked really diligently you can even get hired
by the same firm for which you interned, provided of course there is a current
vacancy, which is usually rare because the attrition rate at such reputed firms is very
low.

ALSO, PLEASE BRIEF US ABOUT YOUR WORK PROFILE AS A

SUMMER ASSOCIATE AT CLIFFORD CHANCE LLP.

My job profile as a Summer Associate with Clifford Chance LLP involved assisting
the senior attorneys on structured debt including CLOs, securitization, small balance
commercial mortgages, RMBS and covered bonds.
MEANWHILE, YOU WERE ALSO ASSOCIATED WITH AMRAPALI
EXPORTS PVT. LTD. [YOUR FATHER’S STARTUP VENTURE], AS A
LEGAL COUNSEL. WHAT DOES AMRAPALI EXPORTS DO? TELL US
ABOUT THE NATURE OF WORK YOU WERE ENTRUSTED WITH
THEREIN.

Amrapali Exports provides legal solutions to a Singapore based corporation. My

responsibilities included managing multiple client environments and various accounts
as Legal Counsel for my father’s startup venture. I dealt with prospective clients by
interacting with the key sponsors in various multinational companies and drafted
corporate and commercial agreements. I also extensively advised on post execution
enforcement issues, exit options under joint venture agreements, compliances under
the companies’ law and FDI regulations.

AFTER SERVING AT YOUR FATHER’S STARTUP VENTURE, YOU

HAVE JOINED CPA GLOBAL AS A SENIOR ASSOCIATE. PLEASE
WALK US THROUGH YOUR APPOINTMENT PROCEDURE AND
INTERVIEWS. ALSO, TELL US ABOUT YOUR WORK PROFILE AT CPA
GLOBAL.

The HR Manager at CPA Global contacted me after going through my work profile
on a leading online Indian employment portal. They briefed me about the job
description which involved giving legal solutions to a leading overseas metal and
mining corporation. The work was challenging and interesting. Also since my father’s
startup venture was doing really good, I was interested in seeking further challenging
opportunities with global organizations so as to further increase and enhance my
knowledge. I was selected after the requisite number of interview rounds. My
responsibilities included contract drafting and database maintenance, contract
review and redlining, contract template creation and revision, contract negotiation
and approval support.

WERE YOU DOUBTFUL BEFORE JOINING CORNELL UNIVERSITY?

WHY DID YOU PREFER MASTERS OVER YOUR JOB?

I have been interested in a Master’s degree in Law ever since I was studying for my
LL.B degree at Delhi University. It has been on my mind for the longest possible time
but somehow the time was never right. I didn’t simply want an LL.M degree to adorn
my already quite impressive repertoire. My desire for pursuing an LL.M degree was
to further complement my existing knowledge with an understanding of how to
implement my knowledge on an international platform. For that, I obviously needed
to gain practical work experience as a lawyer. That was the reason I waited for a few
years and got the necessary experience before venturing out to get the much
coveted LL.M degree. A Master’s degree in Law, from a reputed university can do
wonders to your career prospects, provided you know how to use the knowledge you
have gained in order to further your career by putting yourself at par with other
globally acclaimed lawyers at an international level.

HOW DID YOU CHOOSE CORNELL UNIVERSITY OVER OTHERS?

HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT CHOOSING A UNIVERSITY?

Cornell University is an Ivy League University which is one of a kind just as Harvard,
Colombia, Upenn, Princeton and Brown Universities. My criteria for choosing which
universities to apply at was primarily based on the institution’s intrinsic reputation,
online reviews and from what my seniors who had completed their LL.M abroad, told
me. I was selected at the London School of Economics, the National University of
Singapore, both Colombia University and University of Pensylvania. However, I
chose Cornell because of its reputation for conducting an extremely limited,
unbiased and exclusive selection process based entirely on a student’s merit and
intelligence. I was also quite keen to study at Cornell, because of its reputation of
offering interesting legal courses coupled with the freedom to choose the subjects
depending on a student’s individual interests. Cornell also has some of the world’s
best teachers in the field of law. Luckily due to my incessant hoping, the blessings of
my parents and God’s grace, Cornell selected me and I was offered a place in its
prestigious LL.M degree.

HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT WRITING YOUR SOP? ARE THERE ANY
KEY FACTORS WHICH ONE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND BEFORE
WRITING THE SOP?

While writing my SOP, I stayed clear of artificiality and repetitiveness. I was honest
to myself and tried to convey my career goals and my interests as lucidly as I could.
SOP is giving the other person an insight into your career goals, your interests and
motivations and most importantly an insight into the kind of person you are. It’s
important to be true to yourself and your goals while writing an SOP. The same
should be conveyed in a simple yet dynamic choice of vocabulary. Simplicity of
language is one of the key factors while writing an SOP.

HOW ABOUT RECOMMENDATION LETTERS? WHO ALL

RECOMMENDED YOU TO PURSUE LL.M?

Recommendation letters are an essential requirement while applying to universities

abroad. My teachers at Delhi University very kindly recommended me for my
application to the LL.M degree course abroad.
WHAT IS YOUR TOPIC OF RESEARCH FOR LL.M? WHY DID YOU
CHOOSE THAT SUBJECT FOR RESEARCH?

I chose two major topics for my research dissertation while studying for my LL.M
degree. Both were original research papers for which I was awarded High Honors
and was applauded by my teachers at Cornell University. My first topic of research
was on the ‘Global Financial Crisis of 2008 and its effect on Legal Process
Outsourcing.’ Though a lot of research has been conducted on the reasons behind
the financial crisis of 2008 and its aftermath, yet I found that there was no
satisfactory research which explained the connection between the financial crisis and
the growth of the LPO industry. My second topic of research was ‘Seeking A
Permanent Solution to the Rohingya Crisis.’ The Rohingya are a stateless population
belonging to the Northern Rakhine State (formerly Arakan State), who are amongst
Burma’s ethnic, linguistic and religious minority groups. The Burmese government
has consistently denied this community citizenship status. Their exceptionally harsh
treatment by the Burmese authorities and their condition as a persecuted minority
has been a topic of international discussion. What amazed me was the fact that this
issue had been so prolonged and without any solution still. I gradually conducted a
lot of individual research on this issue. Apart from helping out with various non-profit
organizations working for these refugees, I also ensured that I took active interest in
letting the general public know about this problem. My inherent interest in
international law and human rights has ensured my continuing interest in this cause.

PLEASE TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR ACADEMIC SCHEDULE

AND THE GENERAL EXPERIENCE OF STUDYING ABROAD? HOW
DIFFERENT DO YOU THINK IT IS FROM THE PEDAGOGY THAT
INDIAN UNIVERSITIES FOLLOW?

The academic schedule at Cornell University is very well charted out, giving the
students enough time to conduct self study and participate in various scholastic as
well as extra-curricular activities. Depending on what subjects you take your classes
can start as early as 8:45 in the morning and end at 10 in the night. Since students
are not encouraged to take more than 13 credits per semester, most students have
an easy schedule. I personally had 18 credits for one semester, but due to the
amazingly co-ordinated manner in which the classes were scheduled, I found that I
still had ample time on my hands to do as I pleased. Indian Universities put a lot of
value on study by rote method, which is not the case at Cornell. At Cornell rather
than remembering cases and citing important legal judgments, we were expected to
give our own personal opinion on whatever we studied. That opened up a lot of
opportunity for thinking as a lawyer while still preparing as a student. Also before
each class, we had assigned readings to do so that we would be able to get what the
teachers are saying in class. The teachers, as a rule do not teach from the book.
Rather, they have a Socratic manner of imparting education, whereby each student
is called and asked for an opinion on the topic assigned for that particular day.

DOES CORNELL UNIVERSITY PROVIDE STUDENTS WITH

SCHOLARSHIPS? ARE THERE ANY OTHER INSTITUTIONS, WHICH
PROVIDE SCHOLARSHIPS?

Cornell University does provide financial aid to deserving candidates. I am not so

sure about scholarships though. Usually educational institutes abroad do not provide
scholarships, but there may be exceptions. Instead, they give financial aid as and if
required by an applicant. For this the applicant needs to show proof of requirement
for the financial aid.

YOU ARE ABOUT TO FINISH YOUR LL.M FROM CORNELL

UNIVERSITY THIS YEAR. SO, WHAT NEXT?
I am planning to take the New York State Bar exam soon. In the mean while, I do
have a few job offers, two of which are from reputed software companies in India for
the position of Legal Counsel, one is from a leading law firm in Singapore, and two
are from real estate companies in the US. I also have a job offer from a newspaper
publication in the UK, but for that I need to take a few exams in order to be eligible to
practise law in the UK, and I am not too keen on that. And yes, I have an offer from
Google but the position is based out of Tel Aviv, Israel. Depending on the
circumstances and the remuneration offered, I shall make a decision soon.

WHAT LED TO YOUR ACADEMIC AND PROFESSIONAL

ACHIEVEMENTS?

(Amrapali was awarded “Scroll of Honor” for “Promising New Advocate of the Year”
by the Hon’ble President of India, at the International Conference of Jurists while
pursuing her graduation from Delhi University. She was also awarded High Honors
for writing original research papers on “Global Financial Crisis of 2008 and its effect
on Legal Process Outsourcing” and “Seeking A Permanent Solution to the Rohingya
Crisis” at Cornell University.)
My academic and professional records have been flawless. I have always been an
exceptionally bright student scoring good marks throughout my academic career. As
a lawyer I have always given my best to all my legal assignments. During the course
of my education at Delhi University and my then ongoing internship at the Supreme
Court of India, my name was recommended for the “Scroll of Honor” by my teachers
at Delhi University and my seniors at the Supreme Court of India. As for being
awarded High Honors for my research papers at Cornell, both my papers were
original in their subject matter and analysis, apart from discussing issues of
international relevance.
COULD YOU ENLIGHTEN US, IN BRIEF, ABOUT YOUR ROLE AT
ARAKAN PROJECT AND SAMARPAN FOUNDATION AS A PART OF
YOUR VOLUNTEERING ACTIVITY BESIDE YOUR PROFESSIONAL
LIFE.

As a volunteer for the Arakan Project, I mostly worked towards ensuring that the
Rohingya refugees in India were being given a decent lifestyle with access to health
and education facilities. While volunteering at the Samarpan Foundation, I worked
towards giving proper legal aid to the erstwhile refugees at Yamuna Pushta.

WHERE DO YOU SEE YOURSELF FIVE YEARS FROM NOW?

Five years from now I see myself having started my own law firm or legal
consultancy. That’s a dream which I hope I can achieve. Let’s see.

LASTLY, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE FOR OUR

READERS?

No matter which ever profession you are or choose to be in, make sure you enjoy
what you do. If you love your work, 60% of the battle is won. The rest 40% depends
on your hard work, patience and passion. And of course as in everything in life, 1%
depends on God’s grace or luck, but this 1% can actually go towards making or
breaking your career. You will see the signs. If in spite of giving all your hard work
and dedication, you are still not reaching that desired point in your career then
maybe it’s time to do some serious thinking and perhaps make a career switch. It’s
never too late for that. On another note you will meet a lot of people. People will try
to pull you down and there will also be people who will encourage you. My advice is
to greet all kinds of people with a smile on your face and to always be cordial to
everybody. Be dignified at all times and never ever compromise on your ideals. Keep
your calm in the face of all odds and don’t let failure touch your heart or success go
to your head. All the best.