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Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz

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suresh_sharma Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject:

...

Now I come to the conclusion after going into the posting of Mr. Sarkar that Kz and Lz have
Joined: 23 Mar 2011 nothing to do with slenderness ratio or effective length factor.
Posts: 718

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bijay sarkar Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject:
...

No No...
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 294
Kz, Ky, UNF are effective length factors and Lz, Ly, UNL are effective lengths. Only one set of data
are to be provided in staad...either factors or Eff. lengths. If u provide factors, staad will itself
calculate the effective lengths for further calculation of the slenderness ratio of the member.

If you provide effective lengths Lz, Ly, UNL then staad will simply calculate the slenderness ratio of
the member for calculating the permissible stress of the member for design verification.

regards,

bijay sarkar

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suresh_sharma Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject:

...

Mr. Sarkar, do you mean to say that Ly and Lz which in majority of the cases are node to node
Joined: 23 Mar 2011 distance are the effective length of the member for the purpose of design in compression but IS
Posts: 718
456 utlises sway and non sway definition coupled with Beta1 and beta2 factors for determning
effective length factor. In majority of the sway frames the effective length factor will work out to
more than 1. In fact the minimum value of the factor for the sway frame is 1. If this is the case
then Staad is not considering effective length for design in the true spirit of the code.

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bijay sarkar Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:57 am Post subject:

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35123 14/08/2013
www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz Page 2 of 5

...
As the discussion was going on based on a staad file of steel structure, my all above postings are
related with steel structures where effective length factors may be less than 1 such as truss
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 294 members and bracing members. It depends on end fixity condition of the member. In steel
structure, i have not found any engineer to calculate it from Beta1 and Beta2 which are
cumbersome. Before Beta1 and Beta2, we are to decide which structure is a sway frame & which
one is a non-sway frame. In case of columns, this factor is considered greater than unity in the
direction of moment frame which is assumed as sway frame direction. In the braced direction, it is
assumed as unity i.e for non-sway frame.

regards,

bijay sarkar

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debayan Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:40 am Post subject:

...

Some people have the habit of giving one length only, which they usually give by multipliying the
kx or kz factor along with the actual length.

That is absolutely permissible provided you don't ge confused.

Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Personally I feel it is better to give Ly, Lz seperate and Ky, Kz seperate just because it is easy for
Posts: 83 someone to verify if the particular STAAD file is given to someone for checking.

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debayan Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:51 am Post subject:

...

@Suresh Sharma:- Actually I have yet to work thoroughly on the new IS code. It is based on limit
state method, so it might have a new method to calculate Ky and Kz. But I clearly remember in the
older code the Max value of K was 2 (for cantilever members).

But if you go according to AISC or BS codes you can have K values greater than 2 and that too for
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 non-cantilever members. Actually in these codes they calculate the total rotational stiffness of the
Posts: 83 joint based on the column stiffness and the stiffnesses of the members framing into it. That, I feel
gives a far accurate picture.

Anyways, lets not get confused and you stick to the code that you are following at present.

K factor cannot be calculated in STAAD. That is a input parameter which has to be given in STAAD
or else it will take the default value as 1 which can have disastrous consequences.

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suresh_sharma Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject:

...

The factors beta1 and beta2 are applicable even to steel structures for determining effective length
Joined: 23 Mar 2011 factor of sway and non sway frames In this connection please refer to Fig C1 and C2 of appendix C
Posts: 718
of IS 800 -1984. Similar clause is also in IS 800-2007. Under the circumstances please guide me
as to how to go about it. One of my fellow designer has told me that he used to determine effective
length factor with the help of beta1 and beta2 during his previous assignment and that his
company had developed an Excel sheet for working out effective length factor based on beta1 and
beta2

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JVCSNL Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject:

...

Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Dear All,

Posts: 129 Please refer to following definitions:

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35123 14/08/2013
www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz Page 3 of 5

<xml><o> </o>
1.  Ly : Unsupported Length in local Y axis – for a column modelled in STAAD it is Clear 
distance between beams parallel to local Z direction, the distance being Top of lower side 
element and bottom of upper element 
2. Lz : Unsupported Length in local Z axis  – for a column modelled in STAAD it is Clear 
distance between beams parallel to local Y direction, the distance being Top of lower side 
element and bottom of upper element 
3. KY : Effective Length Factor for calculation of slenderness in Y axis
4. KZ : Effective Length Factor for calculation of slenderness in Z axis
5. Ley : Effective Length in Y Axis = KY x LY 
6. Lez : Effective Length in Z Axis = KZ x LZ
Ley and Lez are the end results that matter the member most, which is multiplication of K 
and L in appropriate direction.  They are design parameters required for design of elements 
and not used in analysis.
These parameters are necessary to calculate the slenderness ratio of member, which is very 
important parameter for strength of compression members.  Hence, these parameters are 
applicable to columns or beam‐columns.  Whether it is steel or concrete column, the 
purpose of these parameters is to appropriately consider the compression capacity of the 
element under design.
Basically, effective length is the distance between two points between which the 
compression member buckle.  For example, in case of column fixed at both ends, the 
buckling will occur between 0.7m length (portion near ends not buckled).  In case of 
cantilever, the same is 2(two) as the first point is at fixed end and the second point is at 
imaginary end which is mirror from free end.
Effective length factor for braced (non‐sway) frame is less than unity.  For un‐braced (sway 
frame) frame it is greater than unity.  To calculate the effective length factors one has to 
understand the buckling phenomena.  The buckling of member depends on its rotational 
stiffness at each end. The rotational stiffness is calculated based on stiffness of column 
element and end condition of beam elements at column ends.  The terms beta1 and beta2 
represent the stiffness of beam column element at two ends of compression 
members.  Buckling analysis an eigen value problem and difficult to solve manually and 
hence, Wood has suggested such simplified charts in early seventies.
Hence, if you can calculate the rotational stiffness of joint at both ends, whether it is steel or 
concrete, effective lengths can be calculated.  For a multi‐storeyed steel structure having 
moment connections at floors, the calculation of effective length factors is very important 
and is being done.  Also, for crane columns, the same is very important in case of heavier 
cranes as stepped column is a non prismatic member and its buckling behaviour is quite 
complex.  According to my experience, the effective length factor of such crane columns in 
major axis is as high as 5.
For concrete structures, Ley and Lez are required to calculate the type of column in 
particular direction and do needful for the slenderness effects in particular direction.  
<o> </o>
In actual 3D models, the physical members are divided at many node points to form the 
geometry of the structures.  The members between such nodes can be termed as analytical 
members.  Usually, the programs do not identify the physical members unless they are 
defined using these parameters.  ETABS and SAP do have some features, whereby it 
calculates the appropriate length in each direction.  STAAD do have option of physical 
member modelling.
For design of steel beams in STAAD, the factor UNL is unsupported length to calculate the 
bending stress (based on lateral torsional buckling) and shall not be confused with Ly or Lz 
which are used for calculation of compressive stresses.
For more on the buckling and effective lengths, one may refer the paper published by Wood 
in the Structural engineer in seventies and book theory of elastic stability by Timoshenko.
<o> </o>
Regards,
Jignesh Chokshi
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suresh_sharma Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:15 am Post subject:

...

Mr.Chokshi,

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35123 14/08/2013
www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz Page 4 of 5

Now I understand from your posting that ELY and ELZ factor has to be detrmined as per Beta1 and
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 718 Beta2 factor laid down in IS 456 and based on this input Staad will calculate l/r ratio otherwise
Staad will take into account the default value which will be erroneous. Am I correct?

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JVCSNL Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject:

...

Dear Suresh,
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 129
Your understanding is correct. You need to provide necessary input (k and L) to calculate effective
lengths.

I also suggest that after you perform design in any commercial software, you also check one or two
designs manually for understanding and validating the design inputs.

Regards,

Jignesh Chokshi

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