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2
3 Alice Graziotti 12-9-2019
4 Estrin Saul Lawyers
5 Email info@estrinsaul.com.au
6
7 Re constitutional meaning of citizenship-Supplement 2
8 Alice,
9 I in a document dated 20070109-How to be deported then already stated:
10 QUOTE
11 Any child, other then of parents who are on diplomatic mission in the Commonwealth of
12 Australia, born within the realm of the King/Queen is a natural subject and attracts by this the
13 nationality of the Monarch regardless of the Status of its parents being aliens or not. A child
14 born to so called “illegal refugees” (No such legal term is constitutionally justified,
15 nevertheless is for all purposes a natural born subject and cannot be deported. As embedded
16 in the Constitution any person born or naturalized in the Commonwealth of Australia is a
17 subject of the British Crown and is an “Australian” with British nationality. The
18 Commonwealth of Australia never had and still does not have any constitutional powers to
19 amend or otherwise alter the application of Subsection 51(xix) of the Constitution that was
20 granted by the British Parliament to naturalize “aliens” to be “British nationals”. Because it is
21 embedded in the Constitution without any referendum to approve otherwise Subsection
22 51(xix) remains applicable as was at federation and the purported “Australian citizenship” as
23 a nationality is a constitutional nonsense and each and every person born or naturalized in the
24 Commonwealth of Australia remains a “British national”!
25 END QUOTE
26
27 Now consider what lawyer Carina Ford reportedly stated:
28 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-06/tamil-family-from-biloela-case-heard-in-melbourne-court/11484428
29 QUOTE
30 Outside court, lawyer Carina Ford said she remained hopeful the Government would use ministerial discretion to keep the
31 family in Australia.
32 END QUOTE
33
34 Whereas I wrote (only part of the submission is quoted):
35
36 QUOTE
37 Committee Secretary 12-9-2019
38 Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee
39 PO Box 6100, Parliament House, Canberra ACT 2600
40 Phone: +61 2 6277 3560, Fax: +61 2 6277 5794
41 legcon.sen@aph.gov.au
42 SUBMISSION- Part 3
43 Sir/Madam,
44 Further to my Part 1 & 2 submission I hereby provide Part 3,
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2 As a CONSTITUTIONALIST I do consider we have to consider the legal principles
3 embedded in the constitution.
4
5 https://jade.barnet.com.au/Jade.html#!article=61502
6 QUOTE H. L. D’EMDEN v F. PEDDER – High Court of Australia

7 The Commonwealth and the States are, with respect to the matters which under the Constitution are within
8 the ambit of their respective legislative or executive authority, sovereign States, subject only to the
9 restrictions imposed by the Imperial connection and the provisions of the Constitution, either expressed or
10 implied. Where, therefore, the Constitution makes a grant of legislative or executive power to the
11 Commonwealth, the Commonwealth is entitled to exercise that power in absolute freedom, and without any
12 interference or control whatever except that prescribed by the Constitution itself.
13 END QUOTE
14
15 Again; “, either expressed or implied.”
16
17 It in my view cannot mean that a child born within the Commonwealth of Australia can be
18 deported as the child is a natural born Australian regardless of the parents nationality.
19 .
20 While we have:
21
22 Hansard 3-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates
23 QUOTE
24 Sir JOHN FORREST.-What is a citizen? A British subject?
25 Mr. WISE.-I presume so.
26 Sir JOHN FORREST.-They could not take away the rights of British subjects.
27 Mr. WISE.-I do not think so. I beg to move- That the words "each state" be omitted, with the view of
28 inserting the words "the Commonwealth."
29 I apprehend the Commonwealth must have complete power to grant or refuse citizenship to any citizen
30 within its borders. I think my answer to Sir John Forrest was given a little too hastily when I said that every
31 citizen of the British Empire must be a citizen of the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth will have power
32 to determine who is a citizen. I do not think Dr. Quick's amendment is necessary. If we do not put in a
33 definition of citizenship every state will have inherent power to decide who is a citizen. That was the
34 decision of the Privy Council in Ah Toy's case.
35 Sir JOHN FORREST.-He was an alien.
36 Mr. WISE.-The Privy Council decided that the Executive of any colony had an inherent right to
37 determine who should have the rights of citizenship within its borders.
38 Mr. KINGSTON.-That it had the right of keeping him out.
39 END QUOTE
40 .
41 Hansard 3-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates
42 QUOTE
43 Mr. BARTON.-No, but the definition of "citizen" as a natural-born or naturalized subject of the Queen is
44 co-extensive with the ordinary definition of a subject or citizen in America. The moment be is under any
45 disability imposed by the Parliament be loses his rights.
46 Dr. QUICK.-That refers to special races.
47 END QUOTE
48
49 Again:
50 No, but the definition of "citizen" as a natural-born
51 or naturalized subject of the Queen is co-extensive
52 with the ordinary definition of a subject or citizen
53 in America
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2 It must be clear that in the USA any child born to alien(s)/undocumented person(s) within the
3 USA is nevertheless an American and cannot be deported.
4
5 Likewise any child born within the Commonwealth of Australia is a natural born citizen and
6 cannot be deported. Such child cannot be naturalised as the child being born in the
7 Commonwealth of Australia for this is already having Australian nationality.
8 There is no provision in the constitution that the Commonwealth can declare the nationality
9 of a child born within the Commonwealth of Australia.
10 Hence, all and any child born in the Commonwealth of Australia but so deported as stateless
11 was unconstitutionally deported and the Commonwealth of Australia must rectify this.
12
13 While the Commonwealth may be justified to deport the parent(s) for genuine grounds then
14 the Commonwealth may have to determine if because the child(ren) are Australian(s) then
15 one of both parents should then be allowed to stay in the Commonwealth of Australia, even if
16 so to say on good behaviour. The Commonwealth may very well decide that one or both
17 parents may under certain conditions stay in the Commonwealth of Australia until perhaps
18 the child(ren) have reached a certain age unless one or either parent violates certain
19 conditions. Hence, the Commonwealth of Australia retains control over the parents and can
20 deport them anytime. For example is a child were say to die and the are not other Australian
21 born children then the parents could be deported as the ground to allow both or either of them
22 to stay no longer may be deemed to exist. As such, the parents must EARN the right to be
23 able to stay pending what the Minister may decide from time to time within the context of all
24 and any conditions that were applied. This would protect the child/ren) while not
25 undermining the Commonwealth of Australia its constitutional legislative powers to keep out
26 anyone it doesn’t desire to enter.
27 Whenever the Commonwealth of Australia makes a decision to allow a person by visa or
28 otherwise to be in the Commonwealth of Australia then it inherits takes the risk this person
29 may become a parent of an Australian born child. Even tourist may overstay and become a
30 parent of a child. However, any such child born cannot fall within the grasp of the
31 commonwealth as it is an Australian natural born child but the parent in my view can still be
32 legitimately deported in particular if entry was obtained under a false identity, have a
33 criminal conviction, etc. As such, the commonwealth of Australia may take a consideration
34 of the parent’s legal position. If it decides to deport the parent(s) then the parent(s) may
35 decide to take their Australian born child(ren) with them or not.
36
37 Not uncommon overseas born parents return to their place of birth taking with them their
38 Australian born child(ren).
39 END QUOTE
40
41 You are welcome to contact me for further details if you desire to do so. Due to a hearing
42 disability I prefer to communicate via email but you can text me via my mobile 04 250 299 44.
43
44 This correspondence is not intended and neither must be perceived to address all issues.
45 Awaiting your response, G. H. Schorel-Hlavka O.W.B. (Friends call me Gerrit)

46 MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL®

47 (Our name is our motto!)

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