DevonThink Tutorial - MyProductiveMac

DEVONthink Part 1 - What is it?
— MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'42
DEVONthink Part 1 - What is it?

Lee Garrett October 8, 2015
Just over a year ago now, I created a series of posts that highlighted how I
use a quite wonderful product called DEVONthink Pro Office. I use
DEVONthink Pro Office as my paperless office solution and over the last
twelve months, my workflows have matured, reaching the stage now
whereby I feel as though I need to provide you with some updates. In fact,
I'm so into the application at the moment, I'm going to re-write the articles
from scratch!
It's going to take a while because DEVONthink Pro Office is such a huge
application. However, I'm using this as an opportunity to refresh my
memory as to some of the functions that I don't find myself leveraging as
much as I could do. For example, one thing that sets DEVONthink Pro
Office above it's competitors is the amazing AI engine that allows you to
have your files automatically classified and filed. I don't use that too much,
namely because I utilise tags far more than I use folders. Also, there are
some great Search parameters that can be used, which I don't feel I need to
that much currently. Yet as my databases mature, this will change, however
my use of the application has definitely reached a maturity now that
justifies a re-write so I hope you enjoy.
What is DEVONthink?
DEVONthink is essentially a database for tagging and tracking all kinds of

information. The whole point of DEVONthink's existence is to make it as
easy as possible for you to be able to store and retrieve any information. No
longer do you need to store Office files, PDFs or bookmarks in separate
applications - simply keep them all in DEVONthink.
I used to struggle with knowing exactly what to use DEVONthink for as

opposed to a different application, such as Evernote. My rule of thumb
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DEVONthink Part 1 - What is it? — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'42
became simple. If the file or note that I am creating would ordinarily be

stored in some form of physical filing cabinet or folder, then I'm going to
keep it in DEVONthink. If it's related to a much larger project, then that's
going straight into DEVONthink. If it's a one-off note about something
which is not going to need to be referred to long-term and has a very short
shelf-life, then it's one for Evernote. (In fact, as I write this, I'm now
dropping Evernote in favour of a plain-text note taking system using nvAlt
and indexing with DEVONthink, yet I need to take some time to write this
up properly for you)
DEVONthink comes in four flavours - DEVONthink Pro

Office, DEVONthink Pro, DEVONthink Personal and DEVONthink
To GO and, as you would expect, they come with differing levels of
functionality. If you are wondering which version to go for, I strongly
recommend that you check out the comparison chart, available here. Note -
DEVONthink To Go is a mobile application, used on iOS to capture
information on the move, ready to sync with it's OS X parent.
As you can see, if finances permit, DEVONthink Pro Office is definitely the
way to go, not least because of it's ability to be able to offer OCR and
ScanSnapsupport off the shelf, which is probably going to form the
cornerstone of any paperless workflow you have. That's not to say you have
to go down that route though. If the amount of paper you find yourself
scanning is negligible, then using a mobile application such as PDFpen
Scan+, which supports OCR as well as exporting to a cloud service, could
very well be a more economical solution for you.
My workflows will all centre around DEVONthink Pro Office as that is the
product I use day to day. I use it at work, with databases setup for different
projects I am currently working on. Each client has their own database. In
fact, one particular client at the moment has multiple databases because I
am working on multiple projects with them! I take this approach because I
like to have the option of being able to mark a project as complete by
DEVONthink Part 1 - What is it? — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'42
archiving the database away when the time comes to close. If I need to
refer to it, I can open it from it's archived location, yet it's not using up
storage space on my working machine.
I also use DEVONthink Pro Office for all of my home filing needs. Utility
bills, instruction manuals, order confirmations, warranty information,
medical history, holiday information - you name it, it goes into
DEVONthink Pro Office. There is very little in my life that I am unable to
retrieve with a simple search.
So that tells you what I use DEVONthink Pro Office for and why I
recommend it so highly. The next few posts will look in more detail as to
how I have it configured, how I import data on both OS X and iOS, how I
invoke searches, tagging, backing up databases. I'm looking forward to
reviewing my workflows by creating this series of posts - I hope you enjoy
reading them!
DEVONthink Part 2 - Databases and Groups — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'43
DEVONthink Part 2 - Databases

and Groups
Last week, I wrote about how much I value DEVONthink, as well as the use
cases that I currently have for it. That's all well and good, but where is your
data stored? How do you import it? What can you import? Well, that's
what I intend to cover in the next two posts.
What Is A Database?
All of your files are stored in one or more databases, which is essentially a
collection of files with some configurable preference settings. I'm going to
show you how my databases are configured, but please remember, there is
no such thing as a perfect database setup! You will look at some of my
settings and wonder how I can function with a setup like that!
Creating Your First Database
Creating a database is as simple as selecting File->New Database and

choosing a location to store it. My databases are all kept in my default
Documents area, which has an online backup to Backblaze as well as a
Time Machine backup to my Synology NAS. This means that I feel secure
in knowing my databases are always retrievable in case of emergency.
How many databases you elect to have is of course up to you. I currently

have five databases, all serving different purposes.
1) My main client - I'm fortunate enough to have a client that I will be

working with well into the next year (if I'm good enough!) so I have a
separate, password-protected database for them.
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2) Home and Family - this holds all documentation pertaining to my

home and - yes - my family! School reports, health records, instructions for
how to self-clean my iron, insurance documents, bank statements. You get
the picture. If it's not work and I want to refer to it at some point in the
future, it goes here.
3) Soliam IT - this is the root name of my business and I keep all client
(apart from my main one due to it's size) and publishing information here,
as well as my formal business documents. I keep my productivity web
archives here, as well as hints and tips for various applications that I want
to keep hold of. Anything that I need to refer to that involves potentially
earning money or keeping my clients happy, goes here.
4) Soliam IT 365 Mail Archive - one of the features I love about

DEVONthink is the ability to archive email. I have an archive for last years
Office 365 account which I had, prior to switching to Google Apps for
Business (a trial, which I later regretted). Searching for old email in
DEVONthink is so much easier than ANY email application I've ever tried.
5) Soliam IT Gmail Archive - this is not a large database and one I

don't have to refer to often, however when I switched back to Office 365
from Google Apps for Business, I archived my email here. I plan to merge
the two databases in the very near future, however for now, it just sits there
in case I need it.
I used to try and get by with just the one database, however this stopped
when I became a full-time freelancer. I wanted to have the ability to work
for a client on a project and, once complete, archive the project away to a
secure location. This is my current practice and it works really well for me.
I should point out here that DEVONthink Personal

and DEVONnote only support one central database.
Applying Security
If you right-click on the newly created database and select Database

Properties, you will be able to set a username and password. I set this for
any database that I know will contain some form of client files.
What Goes In A Database?
Once the database is created and you've applied security, how do you setup
the structure? Well, now it's time to create some Groups (you can liken
Groups to Folders in a desktop sense). Creating a Group is simple. Data
-> New -> Group and then give the Group a name. If you are feeling
flash, which I often do, then you can create a Smart Group. Smart Groups
act the same way as Smart Folders do in Mail on OS X. Essentially, files
become members of a Smart Group based on pre-defined criteria that you
select. As an example, I have a Smart Folder setup for all of my tax receipts
for a given criteria as follows:
My workflow for Groups is fairly simple, in that I don't really use them very
much! I'm such a heavy user of Tags that I have a Group setup called
Cabinetwhere almost everything gets tossed once I have assigned a specific
tag(s) to it.
I always try to find files using searches rather than navigating a file
structure so much now that having different levels of Groups, or Folders,
almost seemed redundant. If I find myself performing a common search, I
will setup a Smart Group to stop me from performing that search again,
but that's as far as my use of groups stretches.
Tagging a file is easy. Ensure you have the Tags bar open (click ⌃⌥⌘T)
and type in the name of the tag, or tags, you wish to assign in the tags bar
(see screenshot below)
That covers how to structure a database with groups. In the next post, I will
cover how to import data, as well as why using replicants and duplicates is
a great feature
DEVONthink Part 3 - Importing and Indexing — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'43
DEVONthink Part 3 - Importing

and Indexing
In this post I'm going to discuss one of the most important factors when it
comes to DEVONthink Pro Office and that is Importing Data. It's all well
and good knowing what DEVONthink is for, yet how do we get data in
there in the first place?
Import or Index?
Firstly, it's important to understand how files are referenced. There are two
distinct ways that DEVONthink can reference files. Documents can either
be imported or indexed. Imported files are copied directly into the
DEVONthink database itself, whereas indexed files are stored externally to
the database.
Importing files is very simple. You can select File then Import and make
your selection from the Finder window that appears. You can also drag and
drop files directly into DEVONthink groups from the desktop or Finder.
This is really handy, especially when you are using your device in Split
Screen mode.
Personally, I import documents in the following ways:
1) Hazel - I have various folders that have Hazel rules applied to them.
The rules will process, tag and rename my files and then move them from
their original location to the Global Inbox in DEVONthink. I don't have to
think about it until I process my Global Inbox and move them to the
relevant project database.
2) ScanSnap Manager - DEVONthink has superb ScanSnap support and
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I use my Fujitsu ScanSnap to scan documents and send directly into

DEVONthink (or to one of my Hazel controlled folders for rule processing
if I know it's a common statement, invoice etc)
3) DEVONthink To Go - This will be covered in a later post, however if

you install DEVONthink To Go, then you can clip content in there on your
iOS devices. I have to admit, it's not as reliable as I need from a mobile
solution (especially one that is so key to my business) so I don't use this as
often as I would like. I tend to place documents into a Dropbox folder when
I'm roaming and let Hazel send that document to my Global Inbox.
4) Web Clipper Extension - DEVONthink To Go may be a chore but the

Web Clipper extension for Safari is great and I use this a lot for gathering
web content and saving to DEVONthink. When you find a site whose
content you wish to store in a database, click the Safari extension (there is
a Chrome one too) and you can select the group you would like to save to,
change the reference name, make Notes/Tags and select the Format you
would like to save to. You can even format the output with Instapaper to
give that gorgeous look to your documents that Instapaper brings.
Getting data out of DEVONthink is simple. Remember, your files don't

become entities in some SQL-style database. They are files that you can
still drag/drop anywhere you like. Quite often I will find myself right-
clicking a file, selecting Show In Finder so I can see exactly where a given
file is located and then moving it out of DEVONthink into a new location.
That is an important distinction to make when you try to compare
DEVONthink Pro Office with Evernote. Quite often you will find it hard to
export something from Evernote once you've imported. Not the case with
DEVONthink.
Indexing Files is even easier. An example of one of my indexed workflows

is as follows:
I have a folder in Dropbox called Client A. I keep all manner of documents
pertaining to this client within that folder, and the fact that it is a Dropbox
folder means I can make changes on the move on any device.In order to
indexthis folder in DEVONthink to allow it to be referenced in search
results, I select File then Index (or click ⌥⌘X)
and on the resulting Finder window, I select the Client A Folder. This
folder, despite living externally to DEVONthink Pro Office, is now
presented for us to use. You can tell it is an indexed folder by the arrow to
the right of the folder name. Imagine it as an arrow pointing to a location
outside of the application.
If you delete a file from an indexed folder in DEVONthink, it does NOT

make any changes to the original location.
I use indexing a lot, especially when I know I'm going to need to make
frequent changes to files when I'm on the move, so I will invariably use
Dropbox folders for the source location of the items and then index the
folders as a whole. You aren't restricted to indexing folders only, however.
Individual items can be indexed as well if required.
Import Preferences
Most of the Preferences that you can set for importing documents into
DEVONthink will be left at their defaults.
You can see that you can specify a range of file types that are able to be
imported. I'm rarely going to need to import Quick Time Movies or
AppleScripts, however there is no harm for me in leaving them checked
should the need arise.
The areas that are more susceptible to a change in setting are for Titles
and Destination. I like to see the extension as part of the name so I can
see at a glance exactly what file type I'm looking at. Lots of people prefer to
have the extension stripped out so it's a case of personal taste.
Destination is a little more involved. I like all new documents to go

straight into the Global Inbox (a default catch-all container). From here,
I will then process the files accordingly with tags and send them on their
way to their final container. You may decide that you wish to Select the
group as your documents are imported. This is a way of filing as you go
however I'd rather dedicate time to processing my inbox as a whole rather
than file as they are imported. It works better for me that way.
You can also set to automatically import documents to the index of your
current database which I occasionally set when I know I'm spending the
whole day in just one database.
That pretty much covers how to reference data in DEVONthink. Next time,
I look at the differences between Duplicates and Replicants and why
they are so ace!
DEVONthink Part 4 - Duplicates, Replicants and Bookmarks — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'44
DEVONthink Part 4 -
Duplicates, Replicants and
Bookmarks
So we move to one of my favourite topics - that of Duplicates and

Replicants. Why is it one of my favourites? The answer to that is simple -
because I didn't think I'd get the hang of them! In truth, they are simple to
use as long as they are explained adequately - so let's go.
Duplicates
Duplicates are quite easy to describe really. When you right click on a file
that you have in one of your databases and select Duplicate To, you have
the option of choosing a location that will house a duplicate, or copy, of
that particular file. These files are two completely separate entities and any
changes you make in one, will not be replicated to the other.
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Ah-ha, did you see that word there? You know, replicated? Well I'm sure
you can now guess what a...
Replicant
....is. By right clicking, selecting Replicate To and then selecting a

location, you will be creating a replicant of the current document. Or a
pointer, if you will. You could have one file, being referenced, or
replicated to several different locations.
I use replicants a lot, yet all for the same purpose and that is to ensure I
have information on the move using DEVONthink To Go, which is the
iOS companion application for DEVONthink. In order to have data appear
on my mobile devices, I need to replicate data to my Mobile Sync folder
in it's given database.
As you can see in the screenshots above, the Tutorial group has been
replicated to the Mobile Sync group. If I make any modifications to this
group then they will be replicated straight away in the Mobile Sync group.
Tutorial 2 isn't replicated to this group so won't appear on my iOS device
when I initiate Synchronisation.
All replicant instances are displayed in dark red, or display an icon to the
right of them, dependant on your own preferences. I like to see the colour
difference myself.
Bookmarks
I'm throwing an extra section in here for now as this is such as short post
and that is bookmarks. If, as I do, you use DEVONthink to manage
material related to individual projects, then you will find yourself collating
a lot of material online. Now if the information is static, that is you know
that the information is not liable to change, then it's nice and clean to save
that web page using the Clip To DEVONthink web extension we touched
on in an earlier post. If, however, the content is dynamic, such as a news
feed or forum, then it's a better idea to keep a bookmark. Simply right click
on the group that you would like to house the bookmark and select New,
Bookmark. You will be presented with a window that allows you to put in
the specifics of the site you wish to bookmark.
When you click on the bookmark, the website will appear. The pane that it
will be displayed in will differ according to your Display Preferences, which
we cover in a later post.
So there we are. A short one on this occasion. Next time, we'll look at how
to Search for data within DEVONthink. After all, what's the point of having
all of these fancy methods of storing data if we can't grab it when we need it
most!
DEVONthink Part 5 - Classification — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'45
DEVONthink Part 5 -
Classification
I said I was going to create the next post on Searching for our data,
however when I reviewed my outline for these posts, I neglected to include
a feature that I consider to be one of DEVONthink Pro Office's great
strengths, and that's Classification
What do we mean when we use the term Classification in DEVONthink

Pro Office? When you classify a document, you are assigning it a category,
or group. DEVONthink can make suggestions as to in which group a
document should reside. Auto Classify pushes this further by using the
AI engine within DEVONthink Pro Office and will automatically place
several documents in a group deemed to be the 'best fit' with a simple
keystroke.
Now the reason that I didn't include this in my original outline is because
as great as it is, it's not actually a feature I make great use of. As you will
know, I'm a heavy user of tags, so I generally only have a couple of groups
that contain documents. The reason for this is that I don't want to waste
thinking time about where I should place a given document - I simply tag it
with relevant tags and forget about it, until such a time as I need to search
for it later. I could of course utilise Auto Classify to achieve the same
primary goal - it reduces the workload on your brain. So I am exploring it's
use with my Home and Family database and I'll show you now how it
works.
How to use Classify and Auto Classify
DEVONthink is able to scan the contents of your documents and make

suggestions as to where they could be filed. Using existing documents as
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reference points, the suggestion engine will improve as a database matures.
Let's take a look at a couple of examples. In the screenshot below, you will
see a document pertaining to a qualification I picked up years ago.
By clicking the See Also and Classify button on the toolbar (it looks like
an upturned Top Hat!) you will be presented with the top ten potential
destinations for the file, in descending order. As it happens, the uppermost
suggestion below is absolutely where I want that file to live, so I click ⌃C
to file it.
To emphasise the point, I have a booking for Star Wars VII that needs to be
filed. Once more, the suggestion at the top of the pile is correct. I click ⌃C
and my inbox processing is complete. I haven't had to think about a thing.
Classifying multiple documents automatically is achieved through Auto

Classify. Highlight all of the documents that need to be filed and right
click to being up the contextual menu, selecting Auto Classify
DEVONthink will now move files to new destinations and the Log window
will display, giving you a breakdown as to where the files were relocated to.
It should be noted that Auto Classify will only move files if DEVONthink
is sure that the destination it suggests is the best fit. If for any reason it is
in two 'virtual' minds as to where a file should go, it will leave it where it is
and inform you via the Log window.
Improving Classify Performance
There are some best practices that you can follow in order to improve the
suggestions DEVONthink makes for files.
Don't mix groups and documents within a group

The fewer documents that are filed within a simple group, the better
If the subject of a group looks like it could be too broad, subdivide into
subgroups.
The more documents you have in your database, the better quality of
suggestions.
Even though this wasn't in my original outline, I enjoyed writing this post
as it made me realise there is actually a lot more I can be doing with
Classify and Auto Classify. This feature alone gives you an appreciation
of exactly how powerful DEVONthink Pro Office is.
The next DEVONthink Pro Office post will cover Searching - I promise!
DEVONthink Part 6 - Searching — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'46
DEVONthink Part 6 - Searching

So we move to Searching within [DEVONthink Pro Office][]. As I'm sure

you would expect, DEVONthink Pro Office has a lot of functionality
available when it comes to searching for content. Not only can you search
for document titles, you can also search for the contents of documents, as
well as obtain results for metadata queries too. As well as this,
DEVONthink Pro Office has a feature called fuzzy search and also
leverages it's artificial intelligence engine to produce some truly accurate
results.
Searching with the toolbar
Let's start with the easiest way to search databases and that's with the
toolbar. Simply type your keyword/phrase in the search field and click the
magnifying glass for a list of options that will narrow down the results.
DEVONthink will display the results and highlight the keyword you
searched for therein.
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Using the Search Window
The toolbar is great for quick searches, however if you need to perform a
more detailed query, you are going to need the dedicated Search
window. To invoke this, go to Tools -> Search ( ⌘F) and a new
window will appear. You can have as many Search windows open as you
deem necessary.
Search realm - The Search for section allows you to specify exactly where,
within the database, you would like to query. You can choose All,
Content, Name, URL, Comment or Metadata. This will help restrict
the number of results presented.
Ignore Diacritics and Fuzzy Searching
You can tweak the results by ticking the check boxes for Ignore
Diacritics and Fuzzy Searching.
Ignore Diacritics will ignore accented characters in foreign languages.

Fuzzy Searching will use what is knows as a fuzzy algorithm when
processing the search. For example, in the screenshot below you can see
that when searching for Test, I have results for Text presented as well.
Searching for Status and Label
The search window presents all search parameters separately, which is

handy, especially if you need to make inline changes to your searches.
There are also drop down options for Flag, Unread, Locking, Label
and Databases. The Databases selection is great if you have multiple
databases and you cannot remember exactly where you filed a particular
document. The toolbar search will only search within the database you are
currently viewing.
Using Boolean Operators
DEVONthink uses Boolean Operators just as you would use them in a

search engine. You can use common ones like AND, NOT, OR, NEAR as
well as more advanced ones, like XOR (either one result or the other can
be present, but not both), OPT (the first term is present yet the second is
optional), BEFORE (term 1 must occur before term 2), AFTER (term 1
must occur after term 2)
Using AI
When you search, DEVONthink can help you narrow your search (or even
widen it) by using AI. If you click the Similar Words button next to the
search field, a drawer opens showing words that not only look similar, but
are contextually related. You can select one or multiple words (hold the
cmd key for multiple selection) and view the results.
Viewing the Results
There are several ways that you can view the results of your search.
Clicking View -> Sort gives a list of attributes that you can sort by.
You can select an item to view in the lower pane of the DEVONthink Pro
Office window.
As you can see, searching in DEVONthink is a whole topic all by itself and
has options for both casual users and power users alike.
DEVONthink Part 7 - Database Maintenance — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'46
DEVONthink Part 7 - Database

Maintenance
Lee Garrett November 2, 2015
Today I want to cover the distinctly un-sexy task of maintaining your

DEVONthink Pro Office databases. It's one of those things that makes you
initially want to yawn, yet as soon as you run into difficulties, you will be so
glad you took the time to safeguard against disaster.
Internal Backups
By default, DEVONthink Pro Office creates regular backups of the

databases index files. These are then used in the rare occurrence of the
system being corrupted. These internal backups are kept directly inside the
database folder. You can define how often these backups are taken by
opening Preferences and clicking the Backup section.
These backups are NOT backups of the entire database. For these, you
would need to use Time Machine or a similar third party application. I use
BackBlaze for my off-site storage and Time Machine to back up the
databases to my local NAS device, as well as exporting via a script (I come
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to that next).
External Backups
You can export all files contained within your DEVONthink Pro Office
databases to external storage quite easily. Simply highlight all groups
within your database with cmd+A, then go to File -> Export -> Files
and Folders. You will then be prompted for a location to export your
content to by way of a standard Finder window.
You can also use an AppleScript to backup all files and folders within a
database and schedule it to run with Automator if you want to take it up a
notch. The built-in Export script is great and you get it by clicking Scripts
-> Export -> Daily Backup Archive.
This will compress all files and folders into a nice little zip file ready for you
to transport anywhere you like. I have a Hazel rule that runs which checks
for the presence of this .zip file in my Holding Folder and creates copies on
my NAS and OneDrive for Business folders. Yes, this may be overkill, but
I'm not going to lost my data and that helps me sleep.
Verifying and Repairing
Databases get damaged over time. It's going to happen. The most common
inconsistencies I receive are when I index an external folder - sometimes I
will receive errors, saying that files are missing. These errors can be
repaired (not always, but most of the time) by going to Tools -> Verify
and Repair. DEVONthink will then check the consistency of the database
and warn you of any errors, as well as letting you know the action that has
been taken where appropriate.
Rebuild Database
Sometimes, the errors that appear above can't be repaired via the Verify
and Repair tool. One of the options you have is to go to Tools -> Rebuild
Database. Here, DEVONthink will export all of your files and group and
re-import them into a new database. It sounds like a lengthy task but I've
never had a database rebuild take longer than a minute and, invariably, it
solves any problem I had.
Restore Backup
You can, of course, restore manually form one of the backups defined
earlier. Go to Tools -> Restore Backup and choose from one of the
point-in-time backup slots available. (Please note - if you elect to Rebuild
Database, a backup will be created automatically. That is why I have 4
restore options available in the screenshot below.
Thanks for reading. My next post will be the last in the DEVONthink series
and will look at the different Preferences settings that can be applied.
Using nvALT and Drafts — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'53
Using nvALT and Drafts

For the last few weeks, I've been working to modify my workflow for taking
notes. For the last few years, I've been an avid user of Evernote, however
I've been looking to move away from this and develop a process for note-
taking that only involved plain-text files.
Why have I done this? One reason is that I was becoming increasingly
frustrated with syncing errors that I was experiencing between the OS X
and iOS versions of Evernote that I was running. I would find duplicated
notes, discover some notes missing - the performance has been less than
optimal shall we say.
Another reason is that I have more than one application that needs to be
able to call these notes. I haven't made a secret of my love for DEVONthink
Pro Office - well, I want to have an indexed folder that contains all of my
tagged, plain-text notes readily available without having to manually
import them, as I did with Evernote.
Thirdly - I like having the control that comes with having all of my notes
stored locally. Were Evernote ever to fold, I wouldn't want my data folding
with them.
So let me describe my new workflow to you. I've taken influences from

such luminaries as Merlin Mann and the team at Asian Efficiency.
nvALT
The first decision I needed to make was how to capture quickly in OS X. I'd
heard lots of recommendations on podcasts for an application by Brett
Terpstra called nvALT. I thought I'd give it a try.
http://www.myproductivemac.com/blog/using-nvalt-and-drafts29102015?rq=devonthink Página 1 de 8
I can see why it came so highly recommended. It has the same charm that
Drafts has on iOS, in that the interface is beautifully simple. You either
search for a note title in the search bar, or type a title in for a new
document, press Enter and start typing. It's so simple.
What I love about primarily about this application is the speed in which it
runs. It's only dealing with plain text files, so searching is lightning quick
compared with other applications that you may use. You can have ideas
captured within seconds.
Opening nvALT...quickly
If you truly want to capture those ideas as fast as possible, you will want to
assign a hotkey. You can assign one in Preferences, however this requires
the application to already be running. Instead, I have fused two hacks
together to get nvALT opening at optimum speed.
The first comes courtesy of Mr Terpstra again. I wrote recently about how
reading one of his articles led me to modify the behaviour of my Caps Lock
key. Now, when I press CAPS LOCK it Actually simulates a ⌘⌥⌃
depression.
The second part of the tweak comes courtesy of a simple Keyboard Maestro
macro to open nvALT when ⌘⌥⌃+N is pressed.
Now it opens super-swiftly when I need to empty head.
Synchronising with iOS
Using nvALT is great on OS X and solves part of my problem. What about

iOS? You see, capturing notes on iOS hasn't really been an issue because by
default, my go-to application has always been Drafts. Within Drafts, I
would have actions set up that exported the Notes content to OmniFocus,
Reminders, Evernote, DayOne or any other application I wanted.
I needed to get nvALT and Drafts talking, and this was achieved using
Dropbox.
The first stage here was to configure nvALT to store the plain text note files
in Dropbox. This was easy, I opened Preferences and changed the target
location of the read notes from folder section to a Dropbox folder of my
choosing. I then clicked the dropdown on Store and read notes on disk
as and changed the value to plain text files.
That sorted the synchronisation on OS X. Now I needed to go to Drafts and

configure an action that would send text notes to that Dropbox folder. This
was as simple as taking the existing Dropbox action that comes pre-loaded
into Drafts, copying it and changing the path to point to my nvALT save
location.
Reading Notes from DEVONthink
I said earlier that I needed a system that helped integrate my notes into
DEVONthink. You see, one headache I used to have concerned which
application should I use for certain notes. If it was about a certain project,
surely I should only use DEVONthink Pro Office for that? Or should I use
Evernote because it's only a short note? What about family notes, where
should they go? This was all thinking time that I wanted to eradicate. So I
did. Everything, large or small, personal or note - EVERY plain text note is
created with nvALT. I'm able to achieve this by using a combination of
indexing and tags, although this can be made more complicated if you so
wish by leveraging Hazel.
Firstly, I added my nvALT Dropbox folder as an index location (for more

information on Indexing with DEVONthink, click here for a walkthrough. I
then created a Smart Group that only displayed results containing my
clients tag. As I make notes in nvALT, I'm careful to ensure I tag each note
appropriately - this then allows for me to really leverage Smart Groups in
DEVONthink.
If I want to create a note within this indexed folder from DEVONthink

itself, this is achievable too. It won't synchronise across automatically,
instead you have to highlight the file and select Move To External
Folder. This isn't too onorous and, in truth, doesn't really apply too often
as I'm far to quick with the ⌘⌥⌃+N trick!
So there is my workflow as it stands. I've been using it for a couple of weeks

so far and it seems to be holding up well. I haven't come across many
stumbling blocks at the moment and I'm proud to be able to say that all my
notes are in plain text and in my own control.
Now sharing notes with my family, that's another ball-game altogether. I'm
looking forward to solving that particular one!
Automation - Archiving Pocket Articles to DevonThink — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'53
Automation - Archiving Pocket

Articles to DevonThink
Lee Garrett May 28, 2014
Those good folks that develop the Pocket Read-it-later service have today
launched a Premium service, whereby subscribers are able to permanently
archive the content on a web link (even if the link is subsequently removed
at a later point in time) and to allow for full searching of archived content.
Currently, searching is restricted to the URL and Title of the article, so this
is a definite benefit, and one that almost had me reaching for the Credit
Card (OK, 1Password) and signing up.
Then the sensible side of me came to the fore, which it has been known to
do on occasion, and started to assess what current tools I have that may be
able to do the same job. I thought of Evernote in the first instance. I'm a
Premium Subscriber and I use the heck out of Evernote, that's for sure. It
forms a core part of my automation workflows for note taking, but I don't
use it for the permanent archive of documents. This role belongs
to DEVONthink.
Now I have the Pro Office version of DEVONthink which means I have a
made a financial investment in the product and, if there is a way that I can
utilise it better, then I will try to find a way of doing so. Fortunately, I
realised today that a lot of this automation is starting to become second
nature to me because I had the fix for this sorted in around ten minutes,
which for me is pretty good!
1) Use IFTTT to Export Pocket Articles to PDF
Job number 1 is to use our faithful servant IFTTT (If This Then That). You
can use the application via the website or download the iOS App. My
screenshots below are from the website version.
http://www.myproductivemac.com/blog/automation-archiving-pocket-articles-to-devonthink2852014?rq=archiving%20pocket%20articles Página 1 de 3
I was strapped for time, so I wanted to see if there was a recipe someone
had already created for this and, like always, yes there was (The IFTTT
community is amazing and I'm very proud to be a part of it). See below:
So to summarise what is happening above, as soon as I favourite an article

in Pocket, then the article is going to be converted to a PDF file and sent to
a folder in my DropBox account called DEVONthink Auto OCR and Delete.
That's quite cool, but it's what happens when it hit's that folder which is
where the magic happens.
2) Use an AppleScript to Auto OCR and Delete the PDF
Firstly, in order to get to where we are above, I had to create a folder in

Dropbox called DEVONthink Auto OCR and Delete. This folder is going to
have an AppleScript assigned to it which was downloaded from
the DEVONthink Application (In the top menu bar, click the Scripts icon,
then select More scripts and browse for the DEVONthink - Import, OCR
and Delete .scpt file)
In order to attach the script to this folder, right click on the folder and
select Services. Then choose Folder Actions Setup
Above you will see the completed action, however to further explain. On
the left hand side, you can add/remove folders that currently have
AppleScripts attached and you can enable/disable them from running via
the tick box. On the right hand side, you select the script that is to be
assigned. If you wish to add a script, then click on the + button and select
the script you wish to assign. The script I have there will automatically
Import the pdf into my DEVONthink Inbox, create an OCR'd version and
then delete the original.
So now, I'm done! All I have to do is favourite an article in Pocket by

clicking the star and, if my laptop is on, within 30 seconds a fully
searchable PDF copy of this article is sitting in my DEVONthink database
ready for filing accordingly. By using replication folders in
the DEVONthink database and using DEVONthink to Go on my iOS
devices, I have them on the go as well. That makes me happy.
Importing Evernotes into DEVONthink Pro Office — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'52
Importing Evernotes into

DEVONthink Pro Office
Lee Garrett January 20, 2016
It wasn't that long ago that I was struggling with my workflow for quick
notes and research on both iOS and OSX. I love DEVONthink Pro Office as
most of my readers know, for storing all documentation relating to projects
and functioning as my paperless office. It's ability to search for content
when I need it, as well as suggesting file locations and email archiving is
second-to-none.
Yet it has to be said that it's mobile offering, DEVONthink To Go, leaves a
lot to be desired when it comes to gathering information on the move. It's
clunky, old fashioned and in dire need of an update. It just isn't an option
for me on iOS for storing research (although when I need to access
anything in my existing DEVONthink database, it's insanely fast).
When it comes to quick notes on the move and storing of Web pages for
future reading, it's so hard to look past Evernote. The sharing extensions
that were implemented in iOS 8 provide a seamless experience for making
notes, taking images and collecting data from web sites.
The issue I had was that I didn't want to have to search through Evernote
for content when my management tool of choice for data retrieval is
DEVONthink Pro Office. What I failed to realise was there is a tool built
right into DEVONthink Pro Office that bridges this gap.
http://www.myproductivemac.com/blog/importing-evernotes-into-devonthink-pro-office2012016?rq=devonthink Página 1 de 3
You can import Evernote items into the group of your choice by simply
clicking File -> Import -> Notes From Evernote when you have a
group highlighted. You will be presented with a list of your Evernote
notebooks. Once you select the notebook(s) you wish to import (select
more than one by pressing the ⌘ key), click OK and all of those notes will
be imported into your DEVONthink Pro Office database, inclusive of tags.
I have an OmniFocus 2 task setup to import these on a weekly basis,

however there is certainly potential to create a Keyboard Maestro macro or
Automator action to complete this. I haven't gone down this road as I like
to maintain physical control of this particular tasks - my DEVONthink Pro
Office databases are tightly controlled and I don't want them being
overloaded in anyway.
Now, I only have to search my DEVONthink Pro Office databases for all of
my notes, whether in Evernote or not and this eliminates the use of
cognitive function as I don't want to have to think about where something
may be located.
Using Hazel with DEVONthink — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'50
Using Hazel with DEVONthink

Lee Garrett May 15, 2014
I love Hazel. I love DEVONthink. So imagine how much I love it when I can
get these two products to talk with each other. It's pretty awesome.
As you may or may not know, Hazel is a housekeeper for your files. You set
it to watch a partiular directory and depending on the actions you have
assigned, you can move, rename, delete, tag - the possibilities are so varied,
you really have to go to Noodlesoft's site and check it our for yourself.
I use DEVONthink Pro Office for my Paperless office setup and one of the
things that I find myself doing every month without fail is downloading my
financial statements as PDF's from the relevant websites, renaming them,
sending them across to DEVONthink, tagging them and then filing them
appropriately within one of my DEVONthink databases. It would be
fantastic if some of these stages could be taken care of for me. Well, enter
Hazel. Here's the setup once installed.
1. Tell Hazel to Monitor your Downloads folder.
Click the + button on the Folders window and navigate to the folder you
wish to apply some rules to. As you can see, I have the Actions, Downloads,
Desktop and Camera Uploads folders being monitored.
2. Create your rules
Click the + button on the right hand Rules window this time. I have three
rules applied to the Downloads folder. The first is a Weekly Cleanup rule,
which takes all downloads that are over 7 days old and creates a new folder
within my Downloads directory with all of these files in. Makes it a lot
neater and tidier. The second two are the ones we will cover here.
http://www.myproductivemac.com/blog/using-hazel-with-devonthink1552014?rq=devonthink Página 1 de 2
Using Hazel with DEVONthink — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'50
So working down the above screenshot, the Name of the rule is in the top
box. This is just for your reference. The next box highlights the criteria that
have to be met. Because I may or may not have more than one MasterCard
(that's really my business!) I have specified two criteria which must both be
met - this is represented by the ALL option in the drop down. This can
change to ANY if you want to be more liberal with the options. The
contents option means that the contents of the file will be scanned for the
characters you have specified.
If those contents are scanned and the criteria are met, then there are three
things that will happen.
1) It will move to the DEVONthink inbox.
2) It will be given the tag "Credit Card" within the DEVONthink database
3) The file will be renamed automatically with the month that the file was
downloaded and the year, followed by Tesco Credit Card Statement. (e.g.
May 2014 - Tesco Credit Card Statement.pdf)
The following rule for Bank Account statements works on exactly the same
principles however with slightly different qualifying criteria, based on the
banking association I hold my accounts with.
Hazel is immense. I'll post more rules over the coming months. I use it to
automatically rename and file my photos, OCR my research documents
and tag accordingly, empty my trash regularly, organise my screenshots -
I'm getting my money's worth out of it that's for sure.
If you want to be kept updated with any Hazel posts, then subscribe to this
RSS feed below or just keep checking back on the site. You can always
email me for any other tips if you like.
http://www.myproductivemac.com/blog/using-hazel-with-devonthink1552014?rq=devonthink Página 2 de 2
Making DEVONthink and Hazel Play Nicely — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'50
BLOG APPLICATIONS CONTACT TRAINING
Search Making
DEVONthink
and Hazel
Play Nicely
February 15, 2017
Before I move on with

this post, I'm going to
make a couple of
assumptions. I'm going
to assume that you
http://www.myproductivemac.com/blog/making-devonthink-and-hazel-play-nicely1522017?rq=devonthink Página 1 de 15
already understand that

Hazel is an amazing
application for macOS,
that watches over
folders in some form of
virtual nanny-state,
performing file actions
on your behalf whilst
you get that busy work
done.
I'm also going to

continue on the basis
that you know about
the awesome power of
DEVONthink Pro O!ce,
the Database/Paperless
O!ce/Finder
Replacement/All round
swiss-army-knife-
type-storage-app for
macOS.
They are both amazing

applications and I
couldn't imagine
having to live without
either of them.
However, after reading
various forums and
listening to some of my
favourite podcasts, it
seems that the general
impression is that you
can't have a workflow
that includes them
both. Using Hazel to

rename files isn't
possible within
DEVONthink itself.
While the statement

above is largely true, a
small amount of lateral
thinking can, however
open up some
possibilities.
I'm going to walk you

through the setup I
have employed to allow
for the renaming of
files with Hazel and
subsequent import into
DEVONthink Pro O!ce.
1) All files downloaded

to my Downloads
folder (the default)
2) Hazel watches this

folder and
automatically performs
OCR on any PDF files
that appear, using
AppleScript and
PDFPen Pro
3) These files are then

renamed and moved to
a Holding Folder I have
in Dropbox.
4) Using the built-in

Folder Actions for
DEVONthink, a script
runs on all contents of
the folder. This script
will Import, OCR and
Delete the original file.
Dropbox Holding
Folder
The first stage is to set

up a Holding Folder.
Now this Holding
Folder has one purpose
and one purpose only. It
will perform a Folder
Action that will Import
a file into DEVONthink,
perform OCR (Optical
Character Recognition,
making the contents of
the document
searchable) and Delete
the original. This folder
is the final place files
will reside before
import into
DEVONthink.
The OCR that will be

completed in this stage
will be using the ABBYY
Fine Reader Engine,
arguably the most
powerful OCR software
on the Mac and built-in

to DEVONthink Pro
O!ce. We're going to
be performing a
'lighter' (yet still
powerful) OCR at an
earlier stage, so as to
rename the file
e"ectively, however the
final OCR will take place
here.
Why have I specified

that this should be
setup as a Dropbox
folder? Well, firstly, any
folder connected to a
Cloud Service is fine
(Google Drive,
OneDrive, iCloud) - I
just happen to use
Dropbox extensively.
Secondly, I find myself
scanning and
submitting business
expense receipts from
iOS a LOT. I use PDFPen
Scan+ to scan the
receipt, I rename with a
TextExpander snippet
before sending it
directly to my Dropbox
Holding Folder. When it
reaches my Macbook,
the Folder Action kicks
o" and the file is
imported into
DEVONthink.
Assigning Folder
Actions
Assigning the Folder

Action to your newly
created Holding Folder
is a simple process.
Open Spotlight
Search for Folder
Action Setup
Click the + button
on the left hand
pane. Navigate to
the Holding
Folder you wish
to assign the
action to.
You will be
presented with a
list of scripts to
assign. Select
Devonthink -
Import, OCR and
Delete.scpt
Please note, you must

have the scripts for
DEVONthink
installed. If you don't
see any DEVONthink
references in the box
of assignable scripts,
install them by
clicking on
DEVONthink Pro
O!ce in the menu
bar, select Install
Add-Ons and tick the
check box for Folder
Actions Scripts.
Great stu". You now

have a folder that will
act as a direct conduit
between yourself and
DEVONthink that is
accessible from
anywhere you have an
Internet connection.
Hazel Rules
OK. Now, we need to set

up some Hazel rules.
The question we need
to ask ourselves,
however, is where
should these rules be
applied? We've set up a
Holding Folder, which
is going to Import, OCR
and Delete thanks to

the Folder Action we
assigned, yet this folder
needs to be the last stop
for the file - the final
conduit between Finder
and DEVONthink.
Therefore I apply the
majority of my Hazel
rules to the default
Downloads folder.
These rules will carry
out some OCR (using
PDFPen Pro from Smile
Software and
subsequently rename
the file based on the
results.
I'll refer to you an

earlier post on Date
Matching with Hazel
which runs through the
process of scripting the
OCR, looking for a date
within the contents of
the document and
subsequent renaming.
The only part you need

to add to the rule, in
order to import into
DEVONthink, is to
move the file into your
Holding Folder once
renaming/tagging etc is
complete. (Remember,
DEVONthink recognises
Finder tags, so you can
use Hazel to pre-tag
your files before they
hit your DEVONthink
Inbox)
You can make a lot of

changes to the
workflow above to suit
your specific needs. I
know that this works
for me and apart from
the odd tweak here and
there, I'm very happy
with how it runs.
There will be a video

posted soon that walks
through this process in
finer detail -
sometimes screencasts
work better than text
ever can, so watch this
space and I'll let you
know when it's ready!
Follow @myproductivemac
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COMMENT…
Riccardo
Coen
A year
ago
Very useful.
One question, why is it

that you OCR the
document twice? first

with Hazel/PDFpen and
then with Devonthink?
Lee
Garrett
A
year
ago
Hey Riccardo,
Thanks for the

question. This is
something that's
just happened
organically - the
first OCR is
usually good
enough to ensure
that the doc can
be renamed
based on the
contents and for
Hazel to do it's
thing - I've
always found,
however, that for
a more thorough
OCR process,
ABBYY
finereader that
comes bundled
with
DEVONthink is
the leader and
picks up text that
PDFPen Pro can
miss. If there is a
way of missing
out the first OCR,
I'd love to hear it
- It's a while
since I wrote this
article and I
haven't ventured
any further in
truth to try.
Jeremy
Wagsta!
2 years
ago
This is really helpful,

thanks, Lee. You've
made me try to be a bit
more adventurous with
Devonthink. Is there
any way to
automatically assign
tags to files in
Devonthink and then
for those files to be
moved to the
appropriate databases
and groups/folders?
Thanks!
Lee
Garrett
2
years
ago
Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for the

comment.
Nothing more
than I've posted
here I'm afraid
with regards to
assigning tags
etc - there IS a
way of being able
to automatically
choose a target
database, which
I highlight in the
post "Choosing a
Target
Database".
You can of
course
automatically
Group items
using the Auto
Group/Auto
Classify options,
however this is
still a manual
task to click the

button. Tags I
don't believe can
be automated
within
DEVONthink
only outside,
using a tool such
as Hazel
highlighted in
this post.
Thanks!
Nicholas
Cifuentes-
Goodbody
3 years
ago
This is a wonderful
post! I'm finding that,
even though I add tags
through Hazel before
moving files to my
Holding Folder, those
tags aren't present
when they appear in the
DEVONThink inbox.
Any thoughts as to why
this is happening?
Lee
Garrett
3
years
ago
Hey Nicholas -
thanks a lot for
posting.
Would ideally
need to see a
screenshot of the
rule in question
- feel free to
email it to me!
(email link is at
the bottom of the
page)
Copyright: Soliam.Biz Ltd
Dragging and Dropping with Mission Control — MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'55
Dragging and Dropping with

Mission Control
Lee Garrett February 3, 2017
When you've got multiple windows and applications open on your Mac,
moving items between them can seem like a daunting prospect. I've found
myself in this position a lot, especially now that I use DEVONthink Pro
Office almost exclusively as my Finder replacement now (amongst other
things!). Dragging items out from it for insertion into other documents
often seemed like more effort than it was worth.
Resizing windows, re-organising work spaces - all stuff that I could have
done without.
I didn't realise however that using Mission Control would help with this.
Here are some brief examples of how you can leverage Mission Control to
ease some of these situations.
Copying Text or an Image

between Windows
If you have text or an image that you need to copy between windows, then
press ⌘+C to copy to your clipboard, swipe three fingers up on the
trackpad to enable Mission Control (or use a keyboard shortcut you have
configured for this) and then select the application you would like to paste
to. Hit ⌘+V to paste it in.
Copying a File or Folder to the
http://www.myproductivemac.com/blog/dragging-and-dropping-with-mission-control322017?rq=devonthink Página 1 de 3
Desktop
Similar to above. Click ⌘+C to add to the clipboard and then press ⌘+F3
to move all windows aside and show the desktop. You can then paste with
⌘+V and press the ⌘+F3 keys to return to your previous view.
Moving a File or Folder to the

Desktop
Rather than hitting the copy shortcut, start dragging the item you wish to
move and press ⌘+F3 to reveal the desktop. Drop the item in place, hit the
keys again and return.
Quite often I find myself needing to drag files into specific folders into
Finder (or more recently, DEVONthink Pro Office). For example, I may
have an Image File that needs to move into a specific folder within
Dropbox, rather than the root Dropbox folder itself. This is easy to do
without the need for opening multiple tabs in Finder.
I am working on the assumption that you will have locations configured

in your Finder sidebar for usuals such as Documents, Downloads,
Dropbox etc
Start to drag the file you wish to move over to a location in your
sidebar. In this case, I have the root Dropbox folder in my Favourites
so is perfect for this situation.
If you keep hovering over this folder, you will see that it will 'expand'
within the open Finder tab. Hover your file over the next folder that
you need to dive into without releasing your finger from the
mouse/trackpad
Continue until you reach the folder that you wish to drop the file into.
This doesn't just work for Finder, but for a host of popular macOS
application. Dragging and Dropping into subfolders and location seems to
be such a simple idea however I've only just really discovered it and can't
believe I missed it for so long!
One thing I used it for on my last contract project was embedding email
correspondance into OmniFocus 2. I'd highlight the email in my
application of choice (in this case, Airmail) and drag the email out. From
here, I would either use Mission Control to reveal OmniFocus or, whilst
still pressing the track pad to drag the file, I'd press ⌘+TAB to bring up
the Application Switcher and change to OmniFocus. From there, I'd paste
it into the Notes field of the Project or Action it related to. Easy.
Do you have any other ways of moving content from one application to
another on macOS? Would love to hear.

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DEVONthink Part 1 - What is it?

— MyProductiveMac 26/11/19 12'42

DEVONthink Part 1 - What is it?

DEVONthink is essentially a database for tagging and tracking all kinds of

I used to struggle with knowing exactly what to use DEVONthink for as

became simple. If the file or note that I am creating would ordinarily be

DEVONthink comes in four flavours - DEVONthink Pro

DEVONthink Part 2 - Databases

Creating Your First Database

Creating a database is as simple as selecting File->New Database and

How many databases you elect to have is of course up to you. I currently

1) My main client - I'm fortunate enough to have a client that I will be

2) Home and Family - this holds all documentation pertaining to my

4) Soliam IT 365 Mail Archive - one of the features I love about

5) Soliam IT Gmail Archive - this is not a large database and one I

I should point out here that DEVONthink Personal

If you right-click on the newly created database and select Database

What Goes In A Database?

DEVONthink Part 3 - Importing

Personally, I import documents in the following ways:

2) ScanSnap Manager - DEVONthink has superb ScanSnap support and

I use my Fujitsu ScanSnap to scan documents and send directly into

3) DEVONthink To Go - This will be covered in a later post, however if

4) Web Clipper Extension - DEVONthink To Go may be a chore but the

Getting data out of DEVONthink is simple. Remember, your files don't

Indexing Files is even easier. An example of one of my indexed workflows

I have a folder in Dropbox called Client A. I keep all manner of documents

If you delete a file from an indexed folder in DEVONthink, it does NOT

Destination is a little more involved. I like all new documents to go

So we move to one of my favourite topics - that of Duplicates and

....is. By right clicking, selecting Replicate To and then selecting a

in it's given database.

we cover in a later post.

What do we mean when we use the term Classification in DEVONthink

How to use Classify and Auto Classify

DEVONthink is able to scan the contents of your documents and make

reference points, the suggestion engine will improve as a database matures.

Classifying multiple documents automatically is achieved through Auto

Improving Classify Performance

Don't mix groups and documents within a group

DEVONthink Part 6 - Searching

So we move to Searching within [DEVONthink Pro Office][]. As I'm sure

Searching with the toolbar

Using the Search Window

Ignore Diacritics and Fuzzy Searching

Ignore Diacritics will ignore accented characters in foreign languages.

Searching for Status and Label

The search window presents all search parameters separately, which is

Using Boolean Operators

DEVONthink uses Boolean Operators just as you would use them in a

Viewing the Results

DEVONthink Part 7 - Database

Today I want to cover the distinctly un-sexy task of maintaining your

By default, DEVONthink Pro Office creates regular backups of the

Verifying and Repairing

Using nvALT and Drafts

So let me describe my new workflow to you. I've taken influences from

Now it opens super-swiftly when I need to empty head.

Synchronising with iOS

Using nvALT is great on OS X and solves part of my problem. What about

That sorted the synchronisation on OS X. Now I needed to go to Drafts and

Reading Notes from DEVONthink

Firstly, I added my nvALT Dropbox folder as an index location (for more