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Q. I missed some of the acronyms used in the presentation. Can you recap these?
A. CFD = Computational Fluid Dynamics
DoE = Design of Experiment
FEA = Finite Element Analysis
h = heat transfer coefficient
HOPG = Highly-Oriented Pyrolytic Graphite
LED = Light Emitting Diode
SSL = Solid-State Lighting
TIM = Thermal Interface Material
Q. For the Infrared radiation, how does the emissivity dependence on the surface
finish? Any reference?
A. If by surface finish you mean roughness, I’m not aware of any dependence. Generally
bright metals have a very low emissivity, the increases somewhat as the metal tarnishes,
but this is still lower than anodizing the surface, which increase the value to around 0.8, a
typical for many materials.
Q. How is the screw pressure measured so that it doesn’t damage the PCB?
A. I don’t believe it’s measured in the application. The screws have a spring to control the
pressure, and a long shank (unthreaded part) which controls how far the screw goes into
the board. The design controls how much the spring is compressed, and it’s the spring that
applies the pressure.
Q. One thing that we used to do with heatsinks was to make the center of the heatsink
in the long direction (flow) depressed to try to keep the flow on the heatsink. Do you
recommend this?
A. This isn’t something I’ve tried, but it’s somewhat counter-intuitive. It would be more logical
to have fins close to the heat source that are taller with larger gaps to help direct flow over
these hotter surfaces. That said, how the heatsink interacts with the airflow is very
dependent on the local environment in the application.
Q. Are there any standard materials databases for thermal conductivity? How do highly
anisotropic materials like graphene, carbon nanotubes and thin flims like diamond
have their inputs?
A. This relates more to thermal interface materials, where there’s a lot of research going on.
Choosing the best material for a particular situation is quite a challenge. Some caution is
needed as vendors measure their data in idealized environments and with quite high
pressure, so the actual thermal resistance in the application can be quite different, and
usually higher.
Q. For a long heatsink, does it help to split the length of the fins half way along to
create air turbulence?
A. In general, the idea of staggering fins is to break up the boundary layers that form, so that
air that exhausts from the center of the channel between two fins passes over the next
staggered fin. The idea is not to increase turbulence, which would increase the pressure
drop and so reduce flow through the heatsink. Splitting the fins mid length would have a
minimal effect. It would disrupt the boundary layers, at the expense of some of the heat
transfer area, but these would quickly reform.
Q. Is there much difference in cooling performance between clear anodizing and black
anodizing?
A. Both are better than leaving the surface untreated. Black anodized has an emissivity of
around 0.8, whereas clear is closer to 0.75, so there’s not too much in it. The following is a
good source of information: http://www.electro-optical.com/eoi_page.asp?h=Emissivity of
Materials
Q. Do you know why anodization improves the emissivity so much? Material properties
have changed but I did not think they changed that much.
A. It’s because it changes the wavelength range that the surface can absorb and radiate
(emissivity is wavelength dependent). As it’s entirely a surface property, only a very thin
coating is needed to change the behavior. Most materials (other than metals) have fairly
decent emissivities. Snow is interesting, as it reflects visible light very well so doesn’t
absorb heat from the sun, yet it has an emissivity for thermal radiation close to 1.
Q. How do you decide whether forced air flow should be in the same direction as
natural convection, or opposite to it?
A. As a general rule, you would always try to force the air flow upwards, so that it augments
any natural convection.
Q. A material with a k that is 8 x Al and with the same weight seems to overwhelm all
the secondary effects you presented with similar costs? Correct?
A. A material that’s the same cost as aluminum, same weight, but has a thermal conductivity
of 1600W/mK would be an absolute winner in terms of reducing the thermal resistance
within the heatsink. That’s IF the thermal conductivity is isotropic If it’s orthotropic, as it is in
HOPG for example, there are issues getting the heat into the base and then ‘turn’ from
spreading in the base to travel up the fins. What remains is the airside resistance,
increasing the importance of getting the airflow design right.
Q. How do we calculate the pressure drop in the flat plate fin heatsink.
A. For very simple situations there are correlations you can use, as mentioned in our Heatsink
101 webinar. In more complex situations involving bypass, then there are methods that
solve a network of flow resistances to get the overall flow and pressure drop through a
heatsink. For everything else CFD is the only option.
Q. For identical aspect-ratio fins in axial flow applications, is there any benefit
(pressure/h) between plate fin and interrupted elliptical fins (not pin fin, but hybrid
forged elliptical fin)
A. Generally, what I’ve seen is that elliptical fins reduce the pressure drop, but also give a
higher thermal resistance than both plate and pin fin heatsinks. This may explain why they
don’t appear to be that popular.
Q. How does CFD assume the length element in calculating the transition from laminar
to turbulent flow?
A. Generally this is controlled by the turbulence model and the treatment used for wall friction.
There are various ways to do it. One is to base it on the distance from the nearest wall,
which generally works well for electronics applications. A more sophisticated approach is to
solve for variables that represent the kinetic energy of the turbulence and its dissipation
rate. However, the results on a coarse mesh can be worse. Both approaches are available
in our software.
Q. How would you use a model in FloTHERM to obtain CFM through the heatsink?
A. The easiest way to get the flow through a heatsink in FloTHERM is to co-locate a volume
region with the finned region of the heatsink. FloTHERM will report flows through each of
the faces of the volume so you can see how much flow goes in and out of each face.
Q. What is your opinion on compressed-stacked fin heatsinks for high power IGBTs?
A. Stacked fins work like folded fins, with the interlocking helping keep the fin spacing, plus
they can be made quite long. If you have a very high power application and need a long
heatsink, then this might be the best fabrication choice.
Q. If a CFD model is not available for an existing product and cost optimizations are
being sought, would an experimental method be appropriate or would CFD be the
next step?
A. Even though the product already exists, and presumably works satisfactorily since you’re
looking for cost improvements, I’d be inclined to create a CFD model. The main reason for
that is the insight CFD gives into the flow and heat transfer inside the system. Ultimately
cooling is a system-level issue, and using CFD has been likened by one of our long-
standing customers at Simclar as like having X-ray vision. You may find ways to save cost
that you don’t expect!
Q. Most of the heatsink cost is driven by manufacturing process (extruded, bonded fin,
swaged fin, etc). Can CFD modeling provide a guide to which heatsink
manufacturing process to use?
A. Not exactly. What you could do though is include parameters in the DoE and optimization
that ensure the heatsink is manufacturable by a particular method. Extrusion is typically the
cheapest, so you could ensure that the fin height is say no more than 10 times the fin
width.
Q. Vapor chambers vs heat pipes; is there a tipping point where one makes better
sense than the other?
A. Again, this will depend very much on the application. The advantage of a vapour chamber
is that it will help spread the heat in 2D whereas heat pipes tend to be more 1D in their
operation, although less so when encased in aluminum in the base of a heatsink.
Q. We use a thermal pad between a DSP and a housing. There is a clamp load applied
to the pad, but thickness tolerance on the pad is large. We can predict pressure with
FEA. How much pressure is generally safe to apply to an IC device on a PCB?
A. Well, you could go back to the package vendor and find out if they have any data, but I
doubt it would get you very far. I’d sidestep the problem and underfill the package with
epoxy as part of the PCB assembly process. Being a leaded package there are two
advantages. First, it will improve the heat transfer to the PCB, reducing the temperature
rise of the package relative to the PCB, and second it will mean you don’t have to worry
about the pressure you apply to the gap pad damaging the assembly
Q. What would be the better approach for precise temp control of discrete components
mounted on a base? Rely on the high thermal inertia of the base or isolate them and
control the temperature with temp controlled air flow?
A. If I understand correctly, in your situation you have a number of discrete components all
mounted onto a single large heatsink and you want to know how to keep them all at the
same temperature. A solution to this I’ve seen in the past is to taper the length of the
heatsink fins from the start of the heatsink to the end, so the fins get progressively longer in
the flow direction.
Q. You addressed roughness of fins on a plate fin type heatsink, what about
"augmentation" features such as cuts/interruptions in the fins thru cuts or other
raised features to disrupt boundary flow? Rule of thumb on when they become
worse than the original problem?
A. I don’t think I can provide a rule of thumb. In cross-flow, pin fin heatsinks offer little or no
advantage over plate fin heatsinks, but it does depend on the details of the designs of the
heatsinks being compared. Anything that aims to increase heat transfer by disrupting the
flow comes at the expense of increased pressure drop.
Q. In some applications, we will "heat sink" a component directly to the PCB copper.
Can CFD be used to determine if this is possible or if we need to add a heatsink?
A. Yes, CFD will allow you to ‘see’ the split of heat down into the PCB and up into the
heatsink. We have sophisticated PCB trace modeling in our software that accurately
predicts how the heat enters and spreads in the PCB.
Q. What kind of factor needs to be considered as you mentioned that the two contact
surfaces won't be perfectly flat. Is using TIM data efficient enough?
A. TIM vendors measure the thermal resistance of their products using ASTM D5470, which
uses very flat, polished surfaces either side of the TIM and a far higher pressure than is
found with package-mounted heatsinks. In the application the thermal resistance is usually
somewhat higher as the surfaces tend to be rougher and the pressure a lot less. Values
can be several time that quoted.
Q. Can you estimate degradation over time of a TIM by general material types or
applications?
A. No, sorry. However, greases with fillers can dry out over time due to thermal cycling, and
then crack. Sheet materials that have some elastic properties are probably a better bet, but
it’s a field that is experiencing considerable innovation, so you’d be best advised to go
directly to a vendor for advice. Electronics Cooling magazine’s Buyer’s Guide is a good
place to start.
Q. Can you simulate free convection through a fin heatsink with FloTHERM?
A. Absolutely. FloTHERM performs very well in natural convection and we typically find that
agreement against experiment is very good for natural convection cases.
Q. What about a ceramic PCB? In Europe we see these from suppliers for LED
applications.
A. Ceramic and metal core PCBs do tend to be used for high-brightness, or power LEDs and
play an important role in spreading the heat before it enters the heatsink. From a purely
thermal perspective, metal core boards are generally better.
Q. I need to design a free convection heatsink that will be under solar loading (desert),
what finish do you recommend? Do you have thermal data on paint or anodize?
A. I’m assuming that you want to minimize solar absorbtion. What you want is something that
has low solar absorbtion and high thermal emissivity. I expect that something like a clear
lacquer or white paint would be the best option, but you’d need to research what would
withstand the harsh environment of the desert conditions. Data is available at
http://www.solarmirror.com/fom/fom-serve/cache/43.html for both solar absorptivity and
emissivity.
Q. When using heatpipe assisted heatsinks how critical is soldering the fins to the
heatpipes vs. a press fit of the fins over the heatpipes?
A. That would depend on how much ‘interference’ there is between the fins and the heatpipe.
If there’s a good contact area between the fins and the heatpipe and compression can be
applied, then a press fit may work. The risk is that this will work loose over time, so it also
depends on how the product will be used.
Q. Will you be discussing heat pipes and vapor chambers in the future?
A. We are planning a Heatsink 301 webinar, but have not yet finalized the content, so we may
well touch on these. Beyond that we have no immediate plans.
Q. When working on LED heatsinks, do I use the same techniques to design an active
flat device of say 30 watts?
A. Yes, the same CFD techniques work well, and we do a lot of work on LED cooling, using
simulation tools like FloTHERM and FloEFD. We also have thermal and optical
characterization hardware that is used by LED vendors and SSL producers to measure
correct thermal resistance values using only the heating power, by subtracting the optical
power from the supplied power.
Q. Are you really saving that much weight/cost with such a small difference in fin
height?
A. It really depends on the volume (units shipped). I know of a guy that does nothing but
heatsink optimization for a large OEM. It also depends on how important weight is etc. in
the application, plus heatsink weight contributes to reliability issues.
Q. Which type of fin do you recommend for high power electronics? For example, a
power dissipation around 600W?
A. If you can direct flow directly through the fins, then a plate fin heatsink may well prove the
best option.
Q. Is there a formula that relates the temperature of the fins to the temperature of the
air as it passes through the parallel fins of a heatsink?
A. Yes, for simple 1D flow between what are in effect parallel plates, you can apply flat duct
correlations for developing flow. In general the flow physics is much more complicated,
unfortunately.
Q. Can you replicate degradation of the heatsink efficiency over time due to dirt/dust
build up, in the case of forced air.
A. People have done research into this. The difficulty is knowing how the dust builds up in the
heatsink. For very narrow fin spacings the heatsink acts to sieve the dust out of the air, so
it can actually block the entrance to the fins. It that’s expected to be a problem, then
filtering the air going into the system may be necessary. Don’t forget to increase the filter’s
loss coefficient to account for it getting clogged with dust.
Q. How can the thermal expansion of a heatsink affect the components that are in
contact to the heatsink? More important probably for fixed mounted heatsinks.
A. the main effect, as you surmise, is through mechanical stress caused by differential
thermal expansion of the heatsink and the package. Large fixed mounted heatsinks are
often designed for a specific package and the mounting force controlled by mounting
springs. The aim of the mechanical attachment is to reduce the stress on the package
interconnect. Directly mounting the heatsink onto the package can result is a worse
situation from a reliability perspective, as the package interconnects experiences stress
due to the weight of the heatsink and more importantly any shock or vibration. Clipping
heatsinks directly to components is only recommended for small, light heatsinks.
Q. A heatsink with forced air flow rate. Is it for example better to have more thin fins or
less thicker fins?
A. there’s an optimum for each flow situation. The choice of fin thickness and spacing will
differ depending on the heatsink length, bypass and the approach velocity.
Q. If all dimensions and features were equal, would a cast heatsink work better or
worse than an extruded heatsink?
A. For the same design of heatsink and the same aluminum alloy, I doubt there’s any
significant difference in the resulting thermal conductivity. Given the same geometry and
conductivity, they should perform almost identically.
Q. We are using FloEFD. Would you recommend it for heatsink modeling or is there a
better software solution?
A. FloEFD is an excellent tool, especially if you’re dealing with more complex mechanical
designs. It’s what was used for the second example in the Heatsink 101 webinar.
Q. What can I do in a case where the heat source is at a higher level than the venting
area?
A. That’s something to be avoided as the heat source will be sitting in stagnant air which can’t
escape from the system so it will get pretty hot. If it absolutely can’t be avoided I’d look at
using copper or some other conductor to conduct heat down to the level of the vent and
then use a fan to draw air through a heatsink attached to the copper. A heat pipe won’t
work very well as the evaporator (heat source) is above the condenser (heatsink) so the
wick structure will really struggle to carry the liquid back up to the heat source. Beyond
that, you’re looking at a pumped liquid system.
Q. Accurate heatsink design using CFD analysis is in relationship to the data obtained
for the electronic components within a given system CFD model. Have you had any
issue obtaining accurate Theta-JB data for electronic components such as the FPGA
components within your presentation? I find most component vendors do not
provide Theta-JB within their data sheets. Have you experienced this as well? If so,
what alternative approach or method do you apply to accurately model these
electronic components?
A. I don’t think there’s a particular reason that vendors are less likely to provide relevant
thermal data for FPGAs, as they’re packaged into BGAs, etc which are thermally well
understood. The Theta-JB measurement is covered by the JEDEC Standard JESD51-8,
which was published in 1999, so you can reasonably take vendors to task over it. You may
want to look at using FloTHERM PACK and use it to build your own models, from 2-
Resistor, increasing in complexity to DELPHI models and full detailed models.
Q. Many times we do not have the space for a mechanical device to hold the heatsink
down. Is there a recommended epoxy or bonding agent you recommend? We do not
use tape.
A. When you say you don’t have space I guess you mean you don’t have, or haven’t reserved
with a keepout during design, space on the PCB. You can use a clip that clips the heatsink
to the package body in addition to an epoxy. Unfortunately glue layers tend to delaminate
under thermal cycling. I’d be inclined to use one with a low elastic modulus in combination
with a clip. The lower modulus will make it more compliant, and the compression from the
clip will help stop it delaminating.
Q. If we are forced to use COTS heatsinks due to cost, how would you recommend
following your optimization DOE?
A. The Command Center has a spreadsheet-like user interface, so you could simply build the
designs by hand, changing the input variables to match each heatsink and then simply pick
the best one from the results. Alternative you could use the optimization to find the best
design, then find the closest design to it from what’s available. You may need to have an
extruded heatsink cut down in terms of width or height for example. The optimization will
tell you where you’re trying to get to.
Q. If the design calls for heatsinks on components in close proximity would l be better
off with a blanket heatsink or individual heatsinks for each component?
A. It depends on the sizes of the components, heatsink weight etc. Using a blanket heatsink
can make contact with the components, which will all be slightly different heights off the
board, quite challenging.
Q. Have you had much success with "T-Wing" or copper tape type heatsinks?
A. Yes, we modeled one of these a few years back as a cooling solution for a large PQFP, so
a relatively low thermal performance package. It did a good job of getting heat into the air.
Q. Would you expect to see a difference in performance of heatsinks with an increase
in clamping force?
A. Yes, as it will generally reduce the interfacial resistances for the thermal interface material,
but you will need to be careful as the force will stress the package interconnect.