INTERVIEW

Barbra Horowitz

Adam Gilad
Gilad Creative Media, Inc.

March 2010

ADAM
Hi. This is Adam Gilad, and welcome back. Today I have someone very different. She’s a friend
of mine. She’s a Hollywood stylist who’s been in the modeling industry. Now she remodels guys
also.
Not their psyches, that’s impossible, but their clothing. Her name is Barbara Horowitz. Barbara,
welcome.
BARB
Thank you for having me.
ADAM
Give us a little quick background on how you got to where you are.
BARB
I grew up as a child in men’s wear. My father owned a men’s clothing store. So, I really grew up
around suiting my whole entire life. When men would walk in and in the early 80s, they needed a
couple suits. How to make those three suits they might wear, how to make them more versatile
and cross-over.
ADAM
Right.
BARB
A lot of it has to do with your underpinnings and styling.
ADAM
I don’t have any underpinnings, but we’ll get to that. I just have outerpinnings. And then what
happened? You got into modeling; you worked with models.
BARB
I was a modeling agent for five years. I handled Charlize Theron.
ADAM
Oh, I’d like to handle Charlize Theron.
BARB
Marissa Miller. I really started Marissa Miller in Sports Illustrated and Victoria’s Secret.
ADAM
Wow. Nice.
BARB
Couldn’t get her arrested.
ADAM
Because?
BARB
Because, you know, it takes time for people to sort of like think that you’re ready for their brand.
Interestingly enough, she was one of the few girls that we had to Polaroid them for Victoria’s
Secret and Sports Illustrated.
ADAM
What does that mean? Polaroid them.
BARB
It means we had to put them into a bathing suit and take pictures of them. And it was like…
ADAM
If you ever need help by the way…
BARB
I was like, is this for real? This is like perfection. It was like I couldn’t even look.
ADAM
Wow.
BARB
She was pretty perfect.
ADAM
Ok. And you also worked with men?
BARB
Yea, so what I did after that was I became a personal stylist after handling models and high
models and young models and every kind of model. I started as a personal stylist. I’ve been
working with men and women for the past six years. I love working with men because they’re so
pliable and trainable.
ADAM
We don’t know anything, and we hand over…
BARB
If I just go like ha-ha-ha-ha. If I go that’s hot, then they get it.
ADAM
She’s feathering her breath like she’s going “oh, that’s hot.” And guys will do it. Yeah, we’re not
going to fight with you. I don’t think many men really claim fashion superiority to women. So
I’m always looking for advice and guidance.
BARB
Yeah, I think the end result is “how do I get out of my clothes?”
ADAM
(laughs) I think we just found the title for this training: Get Into The Right Clothes, So You Can
Get Out of Them. Excellent. So the first question I asked you when we first started talking about
this was: What are some big no-nos? Like right off the bat. And this is for guys over 35, 45, 55,
whatever. But maybe for all men. What are the biggest no-nos?
BARB
I hate to live in the no-no land, but I know that men like to have rules and they like to be able to
have places to live in. So, if your clothing is over five years old, it’s probably time to buy some
new clothing.
ADAM
But what about all those great jeans that we might like paint in one day?
BARB
I know. You know, thank you for saying that. The painting quality. Because I have so many
clients, men and women, that have clothing that would just paint in. And I’m always curious like
why would you ever just wear that to paint in? But if you wanted to actually demote all your
clothing from five years go to paint in, you could then take everything and donate it and keep one
outfit to paint in. But then you would need new clothing.
ADAM
Right. I actually found a bin in a closet, like a plastic bin, that had about eight pairs of jeans that I
painted in. I do a lot of painting I guess. Or doing carpentry; I like doing carpentry. But I guess
one is really enough.
BARB
One is more than enough. Burn it into the ground; wear it every day and never wash it. Wait to
paint and you know.
ADAM
Why five years?
BARB
You know, it’s interesting. I’ve kind of found with women and men, for women it’s much
quicker. They have only three years as an expiration date. With men you can actually get five
years. And because men are so practical and cost-conscious and the styles don’t shift as rapidly,
it’s really a fit question with men. So you’ll notice that if every five years just a touch tired, it’s
probably because of your clothing.
ADAM
You’re feeling tired because your clothing is tired? Or too tight?
BARB
It’s not too tight. It’s more the question that it’s too baggy. Clothing has come in as we’re starting
to work out and becoming more health conscious, how to stop the clock, clothing has become
more fit conscious. Your jeans are too baggy; your shirts are too baggy. That’s a good indication,
if you’re looking at yourself right now as I’m saying this, that you probably need some new
clothing.
ADAM
Ok. So either way you might be losing weight, you might be bulking up, you might be putting on
weight, so your body’s changing.
BARB
Even if you’re putting on weight or bulking up, you’re still going to notice the clothing from five
years ago is still too baggy.
ADAM
Is it because it sags over time?
BARB
No. It’s basically the look that we were looking at.
ADAM
Oh, I see.
BARB
You have to consider that as much as we work on our bodies, our ultimate goal is it’s not enough
to just work on your body inside it’s also how you prepare outside.
ADAM
So, if I’m straight on this, you’re saying that the old look was just a baggier look. Today, clothes
are more tightly fitting because more people tend to be health conscious.
BARB
Exactly. And of course, a lot of men buck that concept because they don’t want to be considered
gay.
ADAM
Ok, right. You don’t want too tight a shirt.
BARB
Exactly.
ADAM
Yeah, I made that mistake once. Because I have a decent physique and I bought a sweater, and it
was, you know a nicer, evening sweater. And I put it on and my sons were like, “Dad, that’s gay.”
BARB
And this is a really great point is that you want to have a little breathability on your frame as a
straight man. So you want it to hug your shoulders and come in with your waist, but still breathe
around your body.
ADAM
It could have been the fact that The Backstreet Boys were on the chest. I don’t know.
BARB
That’s a whole other conversation.
ADAM
So you want some breathing room, you want some shoulders, you want them tapered around the
waist.
BARB
What you really want to do is find your frame. Find your shoulders. That’s the most important
thing.
ADAM
What does that mean?
BARB
It means that if your t-shirt is hanging off of your shoulders and it’s something that you would
have worn to the gym and it’s white and it’s got a big logo on it, it’s not soft, it’s time to retire
from the gym.
ADAM
I have drawers full.
BARB
Exactly.
ADAM
You just described a whole drawer.
BARB
Because for some reason, these t-shirts had some sort of meaning. But they’re not even gym
worthy. So they can go into the painting pile. They shouldn’t even go into the painting pile.
ADAM
Let me pick up on that, because it’s really funny you say that. Because the white t-shirt that has
the log that has some meaning. Yes, right. I have memories that I bought at a certain place. Talk
about that for a second. Guys attach meaning to clothes.
BARB
Totally, totally. Men are really brand loyal. When they find something that works and fits and
they feel comfortable and they feel good, those are the key words for men are comfortable and
they have some meaning to them. So there’s nothing wrong with keeping a couple of those white
shirts but I’m sure you have a stack of maybe 20. Because that is what we were doing at that time,
so it’s time basically to let go of some of them or turn them into a pillow or artwork.
ADAM
This is really interesting. Artwork, right. We’re going to do that. I advise everyone listening to
this, turn it into a pillow. That’s going to happen.
BARB
I know it’s not going to happen. So basically, keep three to five of them and donate the rest to
Goodwill.
ADAM
You hit on something interesting that I’ve never thought about, which is why we really do this. I
did an interview the other day with a friend of mine who’s sort of a dating coach. He was talking
about scraping the barnacles of your life in order to be really present and ready for the next stage
of your life. So he was talking about getting rid of anything that reminds you of your old
girlfriend. We’re actually sitting in my living room right now, and everything that reminded me
of my ex when we were in this house – gone, gone. It took a few years to do it, because there’s
emotional weight attached to things. You’re telling me now there’s emotional weight attached to
clothing. When I listen to you, I’m thinking, wow. I’ve got clothes from 20 years ago, by the way
– not even kidding. And when I look at them, I guess, subconsciously I’m remembering those
super youthful times. You know, when I was traveling Europe or you know, it was just like
another time. I have stuff from Australia that I bought in 1986.
BARB
Every bit has a story. And so when I’m with a client…
ADAM
It reminds me, right.
BARB
There’s a lot of stories, especially for men. Men like to really break down the concepts of. And
you hit on something that I just learned is that these were of a youthful time. I never considered
that. I considered that it was memories and also money is attached. It’s also a big thing for men.
ADAM
So if you spend a lot of money on a piece; that is absolutely true. I have a couple of Zegna
sweaters. They are beginning to look a little saggy. They’re losing their shape a little bit.
BARB
But I bet they would look really amazing on your 19 year old and 16 year old sons.
ADAM
But everything looks amazing on them.
BARB
Super duper retro. That’s the thing. That’s a great way to devote the money into another area.
Retro for your kids, but for you is no longer current and contemporary.
ADAM
Ok. So these are two emotional points that we’re buzzing people to let go of. One is money that
you spend on clothes. If it’s older than five years, fuck it; get rid of it – out. The other emotional
point is that it reminds you of your youth or it reminds you of a happier time. Don’t worry about
the emotions. Get rid of it. Stop living in the past. Clear the barnacles.
BARB
And get rid of it, does not mean…sometimes they’re might be a great coat that could be shrunk.
There might be a great belt; there might be a great shoe. There might be something, some little
moment that still you can take with you. The problem is, as men, they tend to take all the
moments. They wear it all together as they were 10 and 15 and 20 years ago. And then they don’t
understand.
ADAM
Exactly. You can have one piece – hush puppies, yes or no?
BARB
Yes. If there’s a way…
ADAM
If there’s a way to wear it modern.
BARB
Yes, that’s the thing. Bring it up. Bring a couple new things to the party. Accessories and shoes
and belts and jewelries and those things like watches. Please don’t get rid of those things. But
don’t wear more than three or four moments. Wear one or two from that time. And then mix it in
with a new jean or a new shirt, a new jacket.
ADAM
This is good. I wrote about in the book that we’re doing here about don’t wear more than one
statement piece. Like if you have brightly colored shoes or a wild belt or a cool cap or even a
handkerchief in your pocket or something that’s a little outstanding, one is enough. Two is Bozo
the clown. So that’s how I look at color, bright colors. But you’re saying that if it’s a retro piece,
one good retro piece with otherwise contemporary clothing adds a splash of style.
BARB
In shoes and belts and maybe watches. In coats and jackets, if you put it on and the shoulders are
hanging off and the body doesn’t fit, then it’s probably something you see if you wash it in the
dryer if it shrinks down to your scale, because right now, seams inside out are a really big trend.
They’re very mainstream. JCrew is doing this; Abercrombie and Fitch is doing this. You can
basically wear your tight-fitted t-shirt inside out and take the tag out, and you’re good to go.
ADAM
Use both sides like toilet paper. This is good; this is interesting. Tell me; you’re a young woman
living in L.A., what do women look for? We’re in L.A., so let’s not try to be too L.A. centric, but
what do women look for in a man?
BARB
You know, the biggest thing about a man is, before the clothing, the swagger. The clothing just
helps the swagger. So if you have the swagger, you’re going to be doing fine no matter what. If
you want double swagger, then just make sure, and you can walk into Target and buy a $12 t-
shirt. You can buy a sport coat from Merona from Target. These are things you can do if the scale
of your body fits. It's not how much you spend, it’s how your clothing fits. I don’t want people to
think that you need to go and spend a lot of money on clothing to look amazing.
ADAM
That’s a huge point. It’s the fit not the cost.
BARB
It’s the fit. And a lot of custom designers at major shows use Target, use Zara, use H&M. If you
tend to be a very lean European cut, Zara and H&M – fantastic. If you put your sons in any one of
these things…
ADAM
You just want to meet my sons. I’ve shown her pictures of my sons; they’re in a rock band. Yeah,
I get that a lot. Let’s go back to my sons for a second, shall we?
BARB
Well, I want to just point out the theory that if you are that lean guy that kept your build very,
very lean, you can still rock it out at these places no matter what your age is. Because I am not as
young as Adam is saying, you know I might be coming into my mid-40s.
ADAM
Your thirty-teens? I call it my thirty-teens.
BARB
No, I’m 43.
ADAM
Yeah, you’re thirty-thirteen.
BARB
I’m thirty-thirteen! But I’m really psyched on being 43, and I have more men that talk to me
about not wanting to tell their age than me. They’ll be like, “Well, how old do you think I am?”
Really? Do we really have to play that game? I’m psyched on being 43.
ADAM
And men over 40, sexy?
BARB
Oh my god. When you know who you are and it’s a little bit of gray hair, like you’re working,
that’s good. Silver fox is good.
ADAM
I get that all the time. You know, “don’t color your hair, I love it.”
BARB
Don’t color your hair, my god. Be who you are.
ADAM
Let’s go back to swagger. It was interesting that you said that. So, obviously, the shadow side of
swagger is kind of ridiculous bravado. So, I think some guys may feel a little awkward about the
idea of swagger. So, what’s a healthy swagger?
BARB
Healthy swagger is basically most men, for the most part, are working on themselves. They’re
conscious; they eat well. They go to the gym.
ADAM
Well, listen to this. They’re working.
BARB
Exactly. You know, it’s interesting because I’ve met a lot of men post 40 that I can tell that
they’re in really great shape, but they’re wearing their shirts tucked in with a belt and their jeans a
little too high. And all that you’re doing is being lost by a simple just taking the shirt out and
letting it breathe. If you’re past 35 – why I’m going back to your sons is because they have that
rock-and-roll swagger, and something happens as we start to go to work. We start to tuck
everything in.
ADAM
Don’t go to work.
BARB
And become uptight. We need to know how to be where we are, and un-tuck it. Give a little bit.
You want your guy to be a little messy, without being like…
ADAM
Because it shows that he doesn’t care a little bit.
BARB
I attribute this to my women too. We want a care/don’t care vibe all the time. It’s kind of like the
way I used to handle models. Those girls would walk in like “Yeah, whatever.” And you know
what? There was something really amazing about it.
ADAM
Well, they’ll look great in anything – that’s the thing.
BARB
But the great thing is that if a man doesn’t totally match himself up and match, he’s going to look
great too. Taking that shirt out, not wearing a belt. Just having a couple days scruff is so super
sexy.
ADAM
I like hearing that. Something else I had never thought about before, by the way. You know, guys
who tuck in their shirts socially. When people go into a job, into an office, I’ve heard rumors of
what that’s like, but when people go into an office, you have to fit in. And you have to subdue
your wild personality, your sexual personality, and the parts of us that are real. You have to do
that in order to serve your function at work. And I never really thought about that transition. How
do you let go of that persona afterwards? So I’m a big fan of rituals and initiations. And so, a
ritual would be as soon as you step out of work pull your shirt off. You know, I live in L.A., so
we live in our cars and I carry a suitcase - a little suitcase in the back of my car that has different
clothes for different times of the day. Sometimes even just going to an afternoon meeting or
going to lunch, just putting on a fresh shirt gives me a whole new feel, gives me a whole new
vibe. I’m a huge fan of that. Change your clothes to change your mood. Why not?
BARB
Yay! That’s beautiful. I mean, that’s hot. That’s cool. That is really, really true. It’s the fact that I
just worked with a young CEO of a company. He’s 36 years old. And you know what’s really
interesting about men too, if I can touch on this, is they say that they make fun of that guy that
looks good. They make fun of that guy that’s like, “Oh, look at him. He’s way too GQ. He’s so
trying too hard.” And that’s what’s really funny. He was sending me a message, because he was
looking for investors for his company. And he was sending me a message saying that he got a lot
of compliments on his shoes. And I wanted to write back saying, “Should I tell them to stop?”
ADAM
Exactly. You know, I love that. He sounds like a 13 year old girl. He sounds really catty. Usually
when someone does that, obviously they’re saying, “I wish I could be more like that person. I
wish I felt free enough to dress just like that. I wish I was a little cooler. I wish I didn’t have to be
so uptight.”
BARB
That’s exactly what happened. He felt like if he was trying too hard he wasn’t being serious in his
career.
ADAM
I grew up in NY. So, I felt like if I tried too hard, I was being phony or I was being metro. I
wasn’t a street guy anymore. I grew up playing sports in the street. That was my entire childhood.
I felt like if I did that I was saying, “Oh, I’m compensating for something lacking in my
personality, because my personality should be enough.” Right? I’m real.
BARB
This is exactly what most men feel. They’re like I don’t care about those things. Just like you said
you didn’t care when you were married. Well, why didn’t you care when you were married? It’s
an interesting concept when you don’t care for yourself regardless of what other people think.
ADAM
Yea, what’s that about? Well, we both kind of let it go, so I think that’s probably what happened
to the marriage. Maybe if we just dressed better.
BARB
I think you need to dress better every single day for yourself just to signal to yourself that today is
a new day to be the best person that I want to be.
ADAM
And I’m worthy. It’s so funny, we were talking earlier – back to my sons. A lot of what I teach
and what I study and what I really try to live is the same stuff that I teach my sons as they’re
going through their teens. They’re both very talented musicians. And the other day, he was
playing with a couple real rock superstars from The Police, Duran Duran and The Doors. Yeah,
it’s incredible. He’s a keyboardist and he was on stage with them. And he got up at 12, like he
always does and he stumbles out of his bedroom, his hair’s a mess and he has on a crumpled blue
t-shirt with nothing. It could be an undershirt. Crumpled. And I’m like, “Son! Today you are a
rock star. Let’s dress like a rock star.” “Well, you know, indie musicians we don’t have to
dress….” And I’m like, “Dude, dress nice. There will be 1,000 beautiful girls’ eyes on you.” And
then he looked at me and he goes ok. So then we went and found a nice shirt. So, it’s true. He
doesn’t think in those terms, but if you dress like a rock star, people treat you like a rock star.
Now, when I say rock star I don’t mean spandex pants.
BARB
But I think what’s an interesting concept is what I had said to you before we were on air is the
fact that being a rock star in your own life. It has nothing to do with how you’re going to go up
and play a gig Saturday night. Every single day is a day for you to rock your own life. And how
you do that is by what you wear. That signals to people that you respect yourself, that you think
you’re a badass and everything is going to succeed.
ADAM
Yeah, badass. Ok, let’s take a guy who might be listening to this who’s not maybe in an urban
area. He’s out in Mississippi or Nevada or some place, and he’s not really in an urban scene
where people are dressy. So how could he show his little badass without feeling like he’s
overdoing it or ostracizing himself in his community?
BARB
Simplicity. If there’s a Target anywhere, I mean Converse – the Converse clutch by John
Varvatos there…
ADAM
John Varvatos?
BARB
Yes, John Varvatos which is a really big brand. Converse is their license, and it’s made in the
same factory. And this is so affordable. Skinny jeans for $32. Great hoodies, great thermals.
There’s nothing for a woman. It’s like a thermal, a pair of nice jeans and a nice pair of tennis
shoes - Trainers, Converse, kind of current – a nice watch, you don’t need to do too much.
ADAM
And it shows that you’re athletic with that look? Or what does it show you?
BARB
It just shows that…you know, women want to see your frame. They want to get that “jujj” factor
from you.
ADAM
“Jujj”? How do you spell “jujj” by the way?
BARB
I know, because I’ve wanted to write about “jujj” and I’m not quite sure.
ADAM
That’s a great title for a book: The Jujj Factor. You should write that.
BARB
I think it’s j-u-j-j, but if anybody knows, please let us know.
ADAM
You should write that. I mean, that’s a great title.
BARB
Because I love jujj. It’s all about the jujj.
ADAM
Where does that come from – that word? Your mother?
BARB
I don’t know. Is it some kind of hybrid of Yiddish kind of L.A. twang slang.
ADAM
I like it. The Jujj Factor, and the jujj factor is when she can see your body. Like she can feel the
musculature.
BARB
She wants to see the frame of your body. So, I have friends I grew up with, and we just went to a
wedding a couple years ago, and all of our things were stolen. One of my dearest friends from
about 7th grade, and I said, “That was a good thing.” We can now repeat. We can do something
fresher for you. Unfortunately, he went and did the same thing all over again. He bought that too
baggy shirt; he bought that too baggy jeans. And brands are going to be out there to grow with
you. If you still want to wear and dress baggy, they’re there to serve who you already are.
ADAM
What if a guy is a little heavy?
BARB
What if the guy’s a little heavy? Exactly. Because this guy, this friend of mine from 7th grade, is a
little heavy. So he’s buying clothing to compensate the heaviness. But still, the same rules apply.
Let the frame still come in, and if you have a little pooch, it’s a reality. You still need to get to
your frame. If you tent yourself all you’re doing is creating a bigger tent.
ADAM
If you tent yourself, you’re just creating a big box.
BARB
You still need to give yourself shape. And continue to work on where you’re trying to get
yourself to go.
ADAM
Ok, so when you say frame you mean shoulders, chest…
BARB
It’s always about the shoulders. Always let the shoulders lead your clothing first.
ADAM
Wow. Got it.
BARB
Don’t frame for the belly. Fit your frame for the shoulders.
ADAM
Interesting. Why?
BARB
Because again, the shoulder will lead that look that will help you. What I do with clients is we
always wear clothing that’s going to be on the smaller side because guess what’s going to
happen? You’re going to start losing that weight. If you’re hiding yourself, there’s no reason to
work on it.
ADAM
Nice! Good psychological insight. What are some of the mistakes, when you style guys? What
are some of their misconceptions? Mistakes they make coming in.
BARB
You know, the biggest mistake they make is one of the biggest things which is why I’m making a
joke about it is tucking your shirt in.
ADAM
Tucking your shirt in. Why is that bad?
BARB
Because it’s this concept that we are going to work. We have to be professional and take it
seriously. And what happens is we get older and past 35, we’re still tucking our shirts in. And
we’re wearing the belt and it looks too uptight.
ADAM
And there’s nothing sexy about that.
BARB
There’s nothing sexy about that and you know what happens is you look like the cell phone
salesman. You’re like, “How you doing? Would you like to buy a phone?”
ADAM
Let me ask you a question. One of our trainings is about accessing and expressing your
archetypes. This one is about being the lover archetype. So a little bit Fabio
BARB
Ooo, I just got all….Everything is like lightning up inside.
ADAM
See that. It has an impact.
BARB
Like all of a sudden it’s lightning through my whole body. The lover, who’s that?
ADAM
Right! And so, in this training that I did with a fellow named Zan Parrion, who his whole life is
about helping men really access their lover archetype. He asked this great question: Have you
ever been a woman’s fantasy? If not, why not? And what can you do? So what clothing-wise,
sartorially, can help make a man a woman’s fantasy? That’s a great question.
BARB
It’s so interesting. It’s like today’s man does not need to be in a suit. He really, really doesn’t.
Again, he just really needs like the easy things. For some reason, that guy in the hoodie is so
sexy.
ADAM
Why?
BARB
Mysterious.
ADAM
Why? It’s got that little…
BARB
Oh my god. If I were to say that a great pair of sweat pants that just hung totally properly, a
hoodie and a pair of flip-flops. I mean, who can’t do that? Like to meet me at coffee, where he’s
just like, “Yeah, I just put this on because I just came from a five mile run.” But I’m not wearing
my tennis shoes. I’m signaling kind of beach meets, you know, meets trainer.
ADAM
Like you’re comfortable with yourself. I will wear around town often, because I forget to bring
my shoes, I’ll wear my big fat Uggs. I get up in the morning and I put on my Uggs, and I go down
to my hot tub and I put them back on and I go to the café. Sometimes I’ll head into town, and I
forget. My attitude is, “Hey. I’m fine wearing my Uggs. They’re comfortable. I’m happy.” And
women will comment; men may comment. They think they’re gay, or they think they’re for
women. But they’re not, they’re really comfortable. She’s smiling. But it’s like my signal that I’m
casual; it’s my life. I don’t owe anyone anything. I don’t have to dress for anyone.
BARB
And exactly what you’re saying is amazing because a lot of men might pick up on that so much
that they’re not keeping everything a little bit, again…a good schlep is really important. Like I
love the schlep, but is still needs to be fitting correctly.
ADAM
So I’ll have the Uggs, but I’ll have a nice fitting shirt. Like this one I hold is ok?
BARB
Yes, it is.
ADAM
Thank you. I put it on especially for you. I took off all my white t-shirts with characters from
Family Guy.
BARB
And that’s what’s so interesting is that t-shirts keep transitioning and they keep getting better and
better and more interesting. That’s why I keep going back to Target, because you can basically
get a $12 t-shirt, a $20 hoodie and it would be current.
ADAM
It’s funny you say that because when I first got divorced I was 39, and I was still basically
dressing like a graduate student. I was a Hollywood writer, and what most people don’t realize,
not the most glamorous job because you’re home writing. You’re not actually on set all the time.
So, I didn’t really pay that much attention to my clothes. One of my first girlfriends was a real
fashionista, very high level. She was a shopper for Burdines when she was young, which I don’t
even know what it is. It sounds fancy. She had an account at Barney’s. She knew her clothes. She
had a private clothes buyer that came to her house. You know this world. I’d never seen this
world before. They come with a van full of dresses. So, she looked at me and she goes, “Ok, I
like you, but you have no idea how to dress.” And she dressed me basically. She took me
shopping. One of the things I learned from her was she said, “Jeans – Gap. Forget about it. Go to
Gap; go to Banana Republic.” I just read actually that Banana Republic has a whole new huge
variety now. They’ve got everything covered – every cut, every color.
BARB
Still a little too mainstream. That’s why I’m pushing everyone to Target, because Target’s John
Varvatos’ Converse. Here’s the thing is that some of my moms are shopping for their kids. And
they’re like why do you like all of my clothing from Target and not my clothing that I spend a lot
of money on? Because there’s a reason why they’re keeping it so current. You don’t have to
spend a lot of money, but the Gap is super duper mainstream and so is Banana. It really is
mainstream.
ADAM
The point she made was like you need one pair of jeans. You don’t have to go crazy. And you
don’t need to spend $300 on a pair of jeans.
BARB
Honestly, if you have one pair of jeans and that’s your jean, start from there. If you’re wearing
chinos and khakis and if you’re wearing anything pleated, please if you’re not 16 and 19, get rid
of them.
ADAM
No khaki? No pleated?
BARB
No khaki. No chinos.
ADAM
Unless you’re playing golf. Unless you’re a golf kind of guy.
BARB
Yeah, you know what? Demote that clothing, chino and anything pleated, down to your golf
wear. I do that a lot with men.
ADAM
Down to your golf world?
BARB
Your life of golf. Absolutely.
ADAM
Not going out at night.
BARB
No way. Chinos and khakis are a really big thing I can say to get rid of. Another big thing is if
you’re wearing white tennis shoes…
ADAM
Why would you wear white tennis shoes?
BARB
Because a lot of DPs, a lot of people that are wearing white socks, white tennis shoes and weird
khaki Bermuda shorts. Not a good thing. A sexy Nike current sweat pant that breaks open at the
bottom – ahh!
ADAM
I have one of those.
BARB
You know, it fits around the tush. Good stuff.
ADAM
Right. What did you call it? A Nike…
BARB
If you’re really current, go and buy the most current sweat pants. You can rock sweat pants with
women, because they fit so nicely.
ADAM
And they come off easily.
BARB
They come off easily.
ADAM
I like that. White sneakers, out?
BARB
Out.
ADAM
Ok, I want to talk shorts for a second. You mentioned shorts, yes, no, ever maybe?
BARB
If you want to wear shorts and it’s really hot, then make sure you’re wearing, again, like a leather
kind of flip-flop. Some kind of cool. Again, John Varvatos is a great…
ADAM
Varvatos. Again at Target?
BARB
Yes, but also on eBay. You’ll find a lot of John Varvatos on eBay. Tons. Tons. Tons.
ADAM
New?
BARB
There’s a lot of new sold on eBay. Tons of it.
ADAM
Because you don’t want to buy old sandals, somebody’s used sandals.
BARB
If you don’t mind gently worn, it’s good for the environment. Recycling is the greenest thing you
can do.
ADAM
So you can buy new stuff on eBay?
BARB
There are so many clothes out on eBay.
ADAM
Ok, look for Varvatos. V-A-R-V-A-T-O-S.
BARB
And lots of leather flip-flops. If you want to rock that with a pair of shorts, then that’s cool.
ADAM
And stylish leather flip-flops go a long way.
BARB
Just a real easy, leather, no big deal, simple. But something current. The biggest tip I can say is
current, new.
ADAM
Current, new matters. Because why?
BARB
Because that’s going to help you look younger and more ageless.
ADAM
Speaking of younger, this is a big topic I get from a lot of guys who interested in this program. A
lot of guys who are over 35, 45, and 50s even and they want to date younger women in their 20s,
teens. I’m just kidding – 20s and 30s.
BARB
Their clothing needs to be so current.
ADAM
Current. What’s overdoing it?
BARB
Overdoing it is too much accessories unless you’re really that person that comes from that music
world and it’s really your vibe.
ADAM
If you’re a Flavor Flav.
BARB
Always take the beat of where you came from, if you were like the reggae person. Or if you were
the rock and roll guy. You can still have a little bit of it. But the whole thing is that too metro is
not attractive. Too fussy.
ADAM
Not attractive, right? Too fussy.
BARB
Too much cologne. Too much. Too pristine. Too neat.
ADAM
You like that messy jujj factor.
BARB
The biggest way you could signal that is through some facial hair.
ADAM
The couple days scruff.
BARB
So sexy.
ADAM
Women do love that.
BARB
Love that.
ADAM
Now what about, I, for example, my hair is fairly dark, but my beard when it grows in, it grows in
pretty white around the chin.
BARB
Cool.
ADAM
That’s cool?
BARB
Yeah, yeah.
ADAM
Not too much of a Santa Claus thing?
BARB
Yes, since I’m a Jew and I didn’t really get to appreciate Santa for its full value, I’m still trying to
meet Santa.
ADAM
She hangs out by the fireplace every Christmas just waiting.
BARB
But you know what, you’re just going to get a couple days of scruff and then you’re going to
shave it down.
ADAM
Yeah, and do you trim it? Sometimes when I used to go scruff, I would shave my neck and just
grow scruff on my upper face.
BARB
Yes, and that’s exactly it. We don’t want any grizzly atoms. You know and when you were
talking about back to that Fabio thing, we want to imagine that you just got out of bed and you’re
so clean but you’re kind of scruffy. But things fit. You just came from a run and it’s just so sexy.
ADAM
We’re McDreamy.
BARB
A little bit of oil instead of cologne. Colognes indicate, oh he went to the mall.
ADAM
Oil? I never heard that. That’s really funny. I actually advise men to go to the cologne counter
because usually there are really pretty girls there.
BARB
And that’s a good point, but have them get you – because I used to be that girl at the fragrance
counter – have them get you the oil version instead of the Hugo Boss, Armani lemon zingy…
ADAM
Wait, ok. Take a big step back. So when you say oil, you don’t mean motor oil. You don’t mean
olive oil. Are you talking about a sensual oil?
BARB
Yeah, like oooh, back to the bedroom. Definitely the dried down version. Oils that are very sexy
– sandalwood, lemon vetivers.
ADAM
Vetivers? I’ve never heard that word.
BARB
Yeah, anything like Armani that has a zingy kind of lemony sort of really fresh.
ADAM
Fresh instead of musky.
BARB
No, fresh and musky’s good. But that kind of on the counter cologne that you left it there when
you’re still walking by. Kind of like…
ADAM
How about apple cinnamon?
BARB
Possibly in your teeth.
ADAM
I hear that’s attractive. So, that’s interesting. Oil. You know, it’s funny. I don’t know why, maybe
it’s because we’re in L.A., but I tend to date women who also sell essential oils on the side. And I
have to tell you, if you’re listening to this and you know what essential oils are, but they’re the
essence of, I guess, flower petals. I don’t know what they are. But they’re very, very intense.
They’re very small bottles of really intense scent, and they’re amazing. They suffuse your head.
BARB
What’s suffuse?
ADAM
Suffuse is like infuse.
BARB
Not diffuse.
ADAM
Not diffuse. Suffuse means like just fills you. If you imagine a jar and you pour steam into it, it
suffuses throughout the whole thing. That’s what it feels like. It just fills you in. One of my
favorite girlfriends used to anoint me with this before we went to sleep at night. She would put a
little on my lip.
BARB
On your shockwaves.
ADAM
I guess on my shockwaves. On my head for whatever relaxation. And the different oils are for
different moods. So that is a great idea. I never thought of suggesting that to other guys.
BARB
The crazy thing too is that there are different oils for different moods, but mix a lot of them,
because you are going to…
ADAM
We mix our own?
BARB
Oh my god. You know what’s so amazing is good sweat and some oil. If a woman wants to smell
your armpit, that’s so good. That’s the girl that you’re supposed to be with, at least for that
moment.
ADAM
I had a girl say to me, “You have great b.o.” And I did not know how to respond.
BARB
Oh my god. If you have great b.o…
ADAM
Was she coming on to me?
BARB
It’s really important to mix your natural body odor with some oils.
ADAM
This is beginning to sound like a lot of work. I’m a typical guy. I’m like, “Crap, I have to like
identify what my body odor is and now mix it with an oil?”
BARB
Well, you can’t identify what your body odor is. It is what it is.
ADAM
You can’t explain it yourself.
BARB
But what you can do is mix some natural oils that are sexy and musky and fresh that will also
signal when you’re sweating. It’s like this kind of mating call, if you will.
ADAM
It is. That’s exactly what it is. It’s classic throughout biology. The only essential oils I know are
through a company called Young Living. Do you know where else would a guy find…
BARB
Anywhere that there’s a great sort of natural bookstore or anywhere that’s a little hippie dippie.
Maybe there’s a great book you’re reading or maybe there’s something that you’re doing through
your groups. We should maybe actually signal a couple oils that we like.
ADAM
Well, do that. We’ll actually post something. This is really smart the more I think about it. First of
all, I happen to love essential oils, and I love the girls who bring them.
BARB
And also imagine like it’s a massage, a sexual elixir. If you want to have a massage or like a
fantasy about getting a massage, so if you’re wearing part of that and you’re signaling that the
day you’re going out to meet that person, to meet that girl that day or a few girls that day.
ADAM
This is something that I always counsel and where I started with my book on online dating, how
do you stand out from everybody else out there? If other guys are wearing cologne, and women
are very emotional about cologne, some hate it, some like it. But if you’re the guy who wears that
essential oil with just sort of that piercing spearmint or eucalyptus, like you said fresh. It’s
exciting; it’s different.
BARB
Women are very aligned with their emotionality and their own chakras, and when you signal a
scent that they would want to smell, they just come running.
ADAM
I love this. We love women coming and running. Not so much running, but…Ok. We need some
more here. This is great, by the way. I’m learning so much.
BARB
I’m glad.
ADAM
What you’re doing for me, and I hope for people listening, is that you’re associating emotions
with clothing. Now, I don’t know if I’m like most guys but I always call it man shopping, you
know? I love going shopping with my kids, they love going shopping with me. We’re like, ok
we’re going. We walk into a store, we see what we like. We grab it. We buy it; we’re out. The
sooner I get out of a store, the happier we all are because then we can go eat or whatever.
BARB
But it’s amazing that you even like to do it, because most men listening probably hate it. It
probably makes them sweat, nervous. They don’t know what to do.
ADAM
Well, I don’t do it for myself. I like doing it because they’re my kids. It’s kind of a bonding thing.
It’s just fun to do stuff with them. I can’t remember the last time I actually went shopping for
myself.
BARB
Exactly. And this is something I talk about and write about what happens when those younger
people in your life dress better than you do. We love to do it for our children, but we don’t
necessarily go out and do it for ourselves. It’s never too late to be sexy. It’s never too late to be
the hottest person that you are at this moment.
ADAM
Excellent. I love that.
BARB
Especially how much have you grown that you’re trying to instill in your children. And even
though they’re naturally, like your one son which we need to post a picture is like torso boy. It’s a
torso to die for.
ADAM
I know. He’s got like a 12 pack.
BARB
But he’s not going to know that until he gets way, way, way older.
ADAM
Uhh…he knows. Believe me, he knows. When he was 12 and I went to his first Battle of the
Bands and he came out, he was like my little baby, you know, and he gets on stage. He literally
rips off his shirt.
BARB
Yeah, he’s got a torso to die for.
ADAM
And he was 12 or 13. And he held his drum sticks out, and a thousand girls jump to their feet all
around me.
BARB
So that’s my point. Let’s make that point that every man on the planet knows there’s something
that’s really amazing about them. Every man, what would you say that that would be for you?
ADAM
Me, personally?
BARB
Yes!
ADAM
Well, I get a lot of feedback so I have some clues. I think it’s my chest. I have a broad chest. I
worked out a lot. I haven’t worked out in a while, but I worked out a lot. I did a lot of martial arts,
so I have sort of a broad chest. And good shoulders and arms.
BARB
So that’s the thing. If you are being complimented for the same thing over and over, that’s the
part to focus on.
ADAM
Excellent. What if someone says to somebody you have a great butt? What does a guy do with
that?
BARB
Oh my god. Ok, so I’m going to say some words that you’re not going to understand. Drop yolk.
It’s kind of like a good sag in the pant, sexy, sexy.
ADAM
That’s sexy?
BARB
Yea, you don’t…
ADAM
See, I associate that with diapers.
BARB
No, but the thing is for a man over 35 you want your pants to drop in a relaxed way. But it’s got
to be a current; it can’t be your jeans from five and 10 years ago. Those button-up flies are not
happening anymore. It needs to be a current jean. Ask the person that you’re going into, even if
it’s Lucky brand or it’s Banana or Gap, ask them. Say, “I need a little sag in my pants. I don’t
want it to cup.” You want that shape.
ADAM
Why?
BARB
Because it’s sexier not to show the whole package unless it’s a skinny jean. A skinny jean will
cup your butt.
ADAM
Or you’ve got an incredible package. A skinny jean will cup your butt. And that’s too metro for
today you’re saying?
BARB
Well, no. When we say skinny jean that’s a straighter jean that’s back to like the 60s sort of like
rock kind of thin leg. That will fit a little more fitted around your frame, but if you’re wearing a
baggier jean, you want it to drop around your bum so a woman can see. You’ll see. It’s called a
drop yoke. You’ll have to ask…
ADAM
Drop yoke? Y-O-K-E?
BARB
Yeah, you’ll have to ask somebody. You’ll see it go lower on your pant. That’s where your shirt
is meant to be un-tucked to hit that portion in the back of your pants.
ADAM
Oh, I see.
BARB
Then you’ll see the jean pocket will hit lower. I know this is all so abstract.
ADAM
No, no. It’s pretty concrete.
BARB
If you take your t-shirt out, it will drop where you pockets are. The pockets will be lower on your
pants now. This is a great tip. If your jeans are being hidden by your pocket, then your jeans are
probably outdated.
ADAM
By your shirt, you mean?
BARB
Exactly. By your shirt. You want your shirt to hit at this certain point, and the pockets will now
come below it, which is actually really sexy.
ADAM
It never crossed my mind to think about that.
BARB
How could it?
ADAM
I’m still stuck on this for a second. When you say droopy drawers, I’m picturing like a slovenly
guy, like an older guy who’s got droopy pants. It doesn’t sound attractive to me.
BARB
Here’s t he thing. If the pants fit too tight and we again have that shirt tucked in with the belt on,
that’s that cell phone person. That’s that person selling something. “Hi, nice to meet you.” You
know, I have a Pilates instructor that has an amazing body, but he’s almost got such great posture
that it makes him look uptight.
ADAM
Interesting.
BARB
So, it’s almost like the fit. Again, that’s why un-tucking the shirt, letting the jean just relax a bit,
but not your older jeans. It has to be a current fit.
ADAM
Ok. I’ll have to take your word on that one. We’ll go shopping. We may do a video and you’re
going to take me shopping.
BARB
I would love that.
ADAM
That would be really fun.
BARB
What would be great to utilize with you is the fact that some of your jeans from 20 years ago
would be a great example of why that look doesn’t look right now, and then I can show you that
current fit for today.
ADAM
Do you know what’s really funny? In thinking about this and having you come over and actually
look through my clothes, and I literally have clothes that go back to the 80s.
BARB
So can we please do a video on that? Because I think one of your sons should be here and what
we should do is show how the fact…again he thinks I’m trying to talk about his sons. But I really
just want to show the generational difference. How the clothing that you wore 20 years ago if we
put it on you and then we actually did a video with it on your son, the difference of what it would
look like. As our bodies age, we need to stay current. But what happens is clothing that’s really
retro on somebody that’s really young gives them that same vibe.
ADAM
Interesting.
BARB
We don’t want to neaten them up. We want to keep them sort of young and hippie and fresh and
funkadelic. And it’s the same thing that goes for you but it has to be current and contemporary.
ADAM
I get it, ok. So I like that transcending or almost transgressing into the other age group. A kid
wearing something retro is very cool.
BARB
Yes, it’s very cool.
ADAM
I’m also interested in looking the other way again which is what else can a guy do to be attractive
to younger women without seeming creepy, without seeming like he’s trying too hard? That is a
really good question.
BARB
Well, you know trying too hard is being too young looking. So exactly, it’s like you know what,
be your age. Women love men that are their age. Status and experience it doesn’t matter what age
you want to date. If you’re trying to be younger than you are that comes off really creepy.
ADAM
So, I can hear the objection. So we’re telling people to be stylish and current and I think some
people think that means young, because they feel like their past the stylish current. But that’s
really not true. Stylish and current just means today; it doesn’t mean for a particular age group.
BARB
It has nothing to do with your age group. Everybody should be current. It’s also if you’re holding
onto something, like if you’re holding onto your hair that you want to keep longer when it’s
clearly balding…
ADAM
I’m trying so hard.
BARB
Another thing, hair is so important too. It’s like you need to be where you are. You need to be
who you are. Whatever you’re fighting is only going to come across to the other person.
ADAM
That’s a huge factor. Thank you. Yes, that’s why if you dye your hair too dark it looks ridiculous.
BARB
If you’re dying your hair and your hair keeps showing through. I’m actually going to do some
videos on this exact topic – on how to dye your beard for today if you’re going gray.
ADAM
Dye your beard?
BARB
Yes. If you have a beard that’s coming through and you don’t want it to be white, I’m going to
actually be doing some videos on how to do that. How to color your hair that’s not store bought,
because a lot of men don’t want to be gray that they are. But they’re dying their hair and they
don’t necessarily know how to and it’s coming off as cheesy.
ADAM
Like I’ve never dyed my hair store bought. And I recommend to use one called Camoflauge,
which is much subtler, it’s a little ashier. It looks much more natural. It leaves gray but it doesn’t
give you that black helmet head that’s so embarrassing.
BARB
Exactly. It’s just because it comes across, when you’re not being who you are. I don’t think
there’s a man on the planet that can’t get a girl that he wants if he just keeps everything he’s
working out, he’s working on his mind, he’s working on his body and he’s also working on his
wardrobe.
ADAM
Nice. I love that. We’ll add that to the category. And who is comfortable with who he is.
BARB
Being who you are is going to signal your experience and your radiance and your creativity. If
you’re that night time person that plays the guitar but you go to work at a bank, that’s going to
show through. Allow it to show through every space that you are while you’re at work and while
you’re off work.
ADAM
You’re really garbing who you are. Whoever you are inside, your clothing should express, in
other words. You’re right, you’re always growing. So sometimes you’ll wear something new,
you’ll wear a whole new kind of clothing. You mentioned hoodies. So I picked up on that.
BARB
Oh I love hoodies.
ADAM
It’s interesting. I think my wardrobe changed when I started snowboarding. Because first of all, I
think snowboard girls are so sexy.
BARB
Totally.
ADAM
So sexy. I love the whole pants look.
BARB
And you know why you do?
ADAM
Because they’re 15?
BARB
And also because it’s a little tom-boyish vibe, but their body shows through.
ADAM
Their body shows through the pants but they’re wearing those great pants. So a hoodie, they’re
amazing hoodies, I think, obviously. Especially from snowboard companies and skate companies.
Does that look a little weird on a guy over 35, 45?
BARB
Yes, what looks weird is when you take the athletic hoodie. What you want to look for is there’s a
lot of great cashmere, thin, lean…
ADAM
I just got one. I have one. It’s fantastic.
BARB
Ok, because the thing is we always want you to be a boy. You know, and you’re always just
going to be that kind of boy that was just out working out or he was messy in the yard. But the
leaner that these archetypes are that you grew up with…because what shirts are not happening but
hoodies are happening.
ADAM
Like big, bulky the kind of things that we had in college, with the college logo on it. Not good.
BARB
Yes, please get rid of those. I’ve seen too many of those in closets. It’s been about six years and
when I go in and I see a big thick college hoodie and they say I just want to wear it when I’m
cold. I’m like not sexy.
ADAM
I feel the same way. It’s so funny because I have an emotional attachment, because you’re in
college and it feels good….
BARB
And you want to hold onto that moment.
ADAM
Yeah.
BARB
But you’re older. And it’s just going to look older. But putting it again for your children as an
archetype is going to be totally fresh and retro. But for you, the leaner version.
ADAM
It’s funny you mention, I actually just happened to buy a black, very thing cashmere on one side
and the other side is not as cashmere-y, and I wear it all the time. It’s black, so I can wear it
anywhere.
BARB
Yeah.
ADAM
And it’s really thing and of course, it feels good. The super rule I always give men, always wear
cashmere on a date. Always wear cashmere. Women’s hands will be all over you.
BARB
Oh my god. And here’s the thing. Cashmere is really accessible now, at Banana Republic.
Everywhere. It’s accessible to Gap. But here’s the whole thing too is that women love that kind of
classic look. A beautiful navy v-neck, a beautiful navy polo. Basically a long sleeve sweater.
Again, it’s all about the shoulder frame. That lean sweater. Even a button down underneath if you
want to wear it or just a t-shirt. If you are that more classic person.
ADAM
Let’s say you are a more conservative person, you want to show a little that you have a bad-ass
side to you. What can you do with that clean look? What would you add to that?
BARB
Instead of doing the button down shirt, I would just wear a darker t-shirt. So here’s another tip.
Please don’t wear, if you’re past 35, the white t-shirt under the v-nick. Wear a darker color.
Hunter green, charcoal gray. Navy blue and black together mixed. For color waves, men can
basically just play with a palette of mixing really rich urban tones together.
ADAM
Yeah, I mean when I go out at night, you know, I do the Hollywood producer thing. Black t-shirt,
black jacket, black pants. Or blue jeans. Black t-shirt under jacket, not good?
BARB
No.
ADAM
No? Ok, I’m not going to be doing that anymore.
BARB
And the reason you’re not going to be doing that anymore is because that’s going to make you
look older. If you looked at the Academy Awards, and it was really beautiful this year to see all
these men back in the classic look. The white beautiful classic…
ADAM
There were men?
BARB
The men actually got better grades than the women.
ADAM
Really? So what did they do right?
BARB
You know what? They went back to this classic white. The white just classic tuxedo. Beautiful
and elegant. Where a lot of that black kind of Ben Stiller black suit, if you’re doing that, that’s
gone.
ADAM
I’m always a couple years behind.
BARB
And that’s ok. That’s why I’m in your life. I’m here to help the men to basically keep them
current.
ADAM
You know what, there’s something deep here. There’s something about, you know…it’s like I
finally got it, ok! Ok now I get it. People wearing black t-shirts with the jacket. I can do that. And
then I do it, and then suddenly the time has changed. Is this a guy thing?
BARB
It’s like technology. It’s like you know how fast something moves in six months and it’s passé?
Or like a cell phone? This is the best thing for men with gadgets. Cell phones, audio equipment,
you always want that new one, but why are you not doing that in your wardrobe?
ADAM
I don’t know. Why are we not geared…women are totally on top of this.
BARB
Yeah, because women we’re not audio or as gadget-oriented as the most current. But we are in
the clothing place. If we could just flip that a little bit for men. Before you go out and buy that
new cell phone, maybe you need to go out and buy a new pair of jeans. Before you go by a new
computer, maybe you go buy a couple sweaters. Or along with a new computer, you’re buying a
couple sweaters, a couple new t-shirts.
ADAM
Interesting. Yeah, it’s funny. I really realized just now it’s a psychological thing. I don’t think in
those terms. I feel like if I get something right, I’m going to stick with it. Even if it was from
when I was 18.
BARB
Men are really brand loyal.
ADAM
I think we’re also lazy.
BARB
Well, and you’re also nervous and scared. You don’t necessarily know how to do it, but if we use
the same example of technology and audio equipment, men understand all that much more than
women do. But it needs to apply the same in clothing. So as quickly as you are about to update,
again, your car. If you’ve got that great badass car, you know, and you’re at the gym five days a
week, but your jeans are five years old or you’re wearing pleated khakis, then something is
disconnected.
ADAM
Interesting. Ok, it shows that you’re alive. For men who really want to attract a great, vibrant,
conscious woman, you know, you’ve got to be awake; you’ve got to be aware. And that means
being aware of your sensual reality, about food and wine. And I talk about textures, and I talk
about being aware of your own emotional state and being aware of how people interact, just that
you’re awake to the world. And I think there’s been a gap in what I’ve had to offer, because you
really have opened my eyes a lot. Being awake to clothing. Being awake to how things are
hanging on your body and the relationship between fabric and your body. I always talk about
fabric on its own, because I really love soft clothing. I love women’s clothing. I love silk and I
love cashmere. I never really put a connection with how it expresses your body even if it’s baggy,
droopy jeans. I’m still not over that one.
BARB
It’s really interesting because the men that I speak to that basically speak to men or women, quite
often they always utilize body signals – how you sit down in a conversation. But they don’t
necessarily know how important clothing is to signal it, because they themselves have not put the
same importance on it. Because if we are too wrapped up in clothing as a man then it’s
considered gay.
ADAM
It is, right?
BARB
Yeah, yeah.
ADAM
So, we should be attentive but not obsessive.
BARB
Exactly.
ADAM
Ok, and that’s sort of why this relaxed scruffy “I don’t care thing” works.
BARB
Not too tucked in. Something a little bit…like even you talking about your son walking out in his
rumpled t-shirts, it sounded hot to me.
ADAM
Ok, two final questions. Socks?
BARB
Socks, yes.
ADAM
Talk to me about socks.
BARB
Please no more white socks.
ADAM
No more white socks. What about the gym white socks are ok?
BARB
You know, even a grey sock. Because you’re not wearing that white tennis shoe anymore. You
may be wearing more of gray kind of olive green, so do a grey sock. And also, here’s the thing.
Black socks and black shoes not so good either. So when we were talking about that black, you
were wearing that black jacket and that black t-shirt, lighten it all down to 35 to one piece of
black. Lots of grey, lots of navy blue. Lots of olive green. One piece of black is architectural, a lot
more than that, you’re just going to look dated.
ADAM
Wow. Ok, good to know. Thank you. And what about patterns on socks?
BARB
Oh my god. Go nuts on the socks. Go nuts.
ADAM
Go crazy. So that’s your statement. That’s a statement place.
BARB
Because who’s going to see it anyways? It’s for you.
ADAM
That’s funny. You know Robert Downey, Jr., the actor, gave a friend of mine a gift for his 50th
birthday 50 individual socks. Not individual like one at a time, but 50 pairs of really interesting
socks. One of a kinds. That’s the greatest gift.
BARB
It’s the greatest thing. And if you looked at Robert Downey Jr. at the Oscars, he’s the man. They
ripped him, and I loved the tennis shoes with the tux, I loved the over-sized bow tie. He so knows
who he is, that when you know who you are and you want to buck the system like he did wearing
tennis shoes at the Oscars, he’s so cute.
ADAM
Ok, final question. Sweaters: patterns, no?
BARB
Oh my god. No.
ADAM
Like the Cosby sweater.
BARB
I know, I know. No.
ADAM
I still see them.
BARB
I know, I know. That Christmas sweater. Yeah, give it to the young son to rock it out.
ADAM
With the arms cut out probably. With the sleeves cut off.
BARB
Totally.
ADAM
I mean, Cosby sweaters – no, no, no, no, no.
BARB
And the same thing with lots of over graphics on t-shirts. Everything is really sort of like a soft-
tattoo look, subtle sort of organic.
ADAM
Kind of what I’m wearing?
BARB
This is nice. It’s like you bought this new, but this t-shirt graphic is really beat up looking. It’s
almost like it’s ok to look like everything is coming out kind of messy, kind of. Everything just
needs to be new. New. New.
ADAM
New is the key word.
BARB
Yeah, each season you’ve got to go out and buy some new clothing.
ADAM
Barbara, this is so fun. I love talking to you. I learned so much. And I’m sure anyone who has
listened to this has learned so much.
BARB
Let’s do this again tomorrow. Let’s do like some actual topics so we can really help people.
ADAM
Yeah, and we’re going to do some videos. Stay tuned because we’re going to do some videos
together. I want to help you with your book The Jujj Factor. I think it’s a great title by the way.
BARB
I was just driving up here thinking what was the second book I was going to write and it’s the Jujj
Factor.
ADAM
What was your first?
BARB
Closet Control.
ADAM
Closet Control. Is that about stopping yourself from being too gay?
BARB
I know, it’s about getting out of the closet.
ADAM
No, what is it about? Is it about having too many old clothes?
BARB
It’s about what to do with what you already own.
ADAM
Good. Maybe I will actually open my closet for videos. It’s very embarrassing.
BARB
You really should, because you have stuff from over 20 years so you’re the greatest.
ADAM
And I have boxes so they’re all in bins under my house. Ok so we’ll be doing some videos as we
move on. I definitely want to have a live event and have you there. And take a bunch of guys
shopping. I think it would be hilarious, and we’ll probably film that, because you’re funny. Thank
you so much Barbara.