STATE OF ILLINOIS

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 17TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT

COPY
COUNTY OF WINNEBAGO

THE PEOPLE OF THE

.«VVVVVVVVVV
STATE OF ILLINOIS,
CASE NO. 14 CF 922
Plaintiff,
HEARING ON MOTIONS
VS.

RICHARD E. WANKE,

Defendant.
10

ll REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS at the hearing of the

12 above~entitled cause before the Honorable ROSEMARY COLLINS,

13 Judge of said Court, on the 11th day of August, 2016.

14

15 APPEARANCES: MS. MARILYN RITE ROSS,

Chief of Criminal Bureau,
16 MR. F. JAMES BRUN,
Deputy State‘s Attorney, and
17 MS. PAMELA WELLS,
Assistant State's Attorney,
18 on behalf of the People;

19 MR. NICK ZIMMERMAN and

MR. ROBERT SIMMONS,
2O Assistant Public Defenders,
on behalf of the Defendant.
21

22

23 Sandra Erassfield, CSR

17th Judicial Circuit
24 Rockford, Illinois
License No. 084—003291
 THE COURT: All right. Is this working? Is

this turned on?

THE DEFENDANT: (Shakes head negatively.)

THE COURT: I don't hear anything up here.

Is it working? Jamie, something may be turned off.

THE BAILIFF: Hit the mics, top one.

THE COURT: Oh, okay. My volume thing keeps

slipping down. It appears it takes a village to run a

courtroom now. No, I don't hear it either. It's still not

10 working. Everything is turned on here. This is turned on.

11 This is on, because off is up. Technology; I hear it now.

l2 You can hear it because now it's echoing, of course.

13 So can you hear me now?

14 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.

15 THE COURT: All right. I‘m not sure what the

16 problem was. Fortunately, my bailiff was able to fix it.

17 This is People versus Richard Wanke. Good

18 afternoon.

19 MR. BRUN: Good afternoon, Your Honor.

20 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Good afternoon, Judge.

21 MS. WELLS: Good afternoon, Judge.

22 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Nick Zimmerman and Rob

23 Simmons on behalf of Mr. Wanke who is present in custody.

24 MR. BRUN: James Erun on behalf of the

 People.

MS. HITE ROSS: Marilyn Hite Ross for the

People.

MS. WELLS: Pamela Wells for the People, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: We're set today for several

things. I have down that we're set for the Court's decision

regarding the motions in limine, the Court's decision

regarding the Motion to Dismiss. There is a motion regarding

10 the investigator, and the voir dire questions were also

ll supposed to be on here today.

12 I can tell you that I do not have my decisions

13 done on the things that I was supposed to get a decision

14 done on. So I'm going to have to put them off. Frankly,

15 since we weren't in trial last week —— or next week, I did

16 not —— I did some other things that needed to be done this

17 week, so —— so I'm not yet done with them, as I knew I had

18 a little more time.

19 And so the motion regarding the investigator,

20 if you could refresh my recollection regarding that.

21 THE DEFENDANT: For the Motion to Compel; is

22 that what you're talking about?

23 THE COURT: Yeah; I just have written down

24 here ”motion regarding investigator." And I think it was a

 motion you raised ——

THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) Yeah.

THE COURT: (Continuing) —— about a conflict

with the investigator.

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, ma‘am. Um, but before

we get to that, I had —— can you check with your clerk to

see —— I filed on August lst a Temporary Restraining Order

with the Court.

My legal property was taken from me on a shake—

10 down in the jail. And so the majority of my notes, my

11 correspondence, everything that I've, uh, um, maintained

12 involving this case was seized on July 30th. And so on

13 August 1st I wrote up a motion; mailed it off, and I just

14 wanted to see if that TRO has been filed yet.

15 THE COURT: We‘ll Check.

16 Oh —— while we're checking, I have received

17 four packets from the Illinois State Police, the Department

18 of Forensic Science. 80 I will turn them over to the State

19 to be turned over to the defense.

20 MR. BRUN: Thank you, Your Honor.

21 THE COURT: Uh—huh (affirmative response).

22 THE CLERK: Judge, not yet.

23 THE COURT: Nothing has been received by the

24 clerk.
 THE DEFENDANT: Well, like I said, I put it

in the jail mail on August 1st. It is an Order that I wish

the Court to sign. It's got an addendum that I put together

in the last couple days.

THE COURT: Have you talked about this issue

with your attorneys?

THE DEFENDANT: I talked to...briefly

yesterday when they came to visit me for ten, fifteen

minutes.

10 THE COURT: Okay.

ll THE DEFENDANT: And informed them that all my

12 stuff was taken. And it makes it very difficult to conduct

13 any meeting or do anything if two years of notes and

14 report —— everything I filed in this courtroom was taken.

15 And —— it was nearly everything. I don't want to exaggerate.

16 But everything that ~- and I'm just giving

17 this as an example. Everything involving my other court

18 proceedings in front of Judge McGraw, all of that is taken.

19 Now, my attorney in that case was contacted right after it

20 happened. And he has already filed a motion seeking return

21 of my property in front of Judge McGraw, which is not

22 scheduled for anything. This has come up sooner. Uh --

23 THE COURT: I want your attorneys to look at

24 this issue and deal with this issue. This is an issue that
 your attorneys will look at and deal with.

THE DEFENDANT: Well, here is the problem,

Your Honor —— I agree with that. And I contacted them ten

days ago when it happened, and they have not looked into it

as of yet. And I don't see any filing here to adopt my TRO.

And I don't, uh —— and it's not been, um, filed —— or

received.

And because of past misconduct with my mail,

uh, and misdelivery or rerouting, uh, you know, I‘m uncertain

10 of what I'm not receiving and what's going in and out of

11 the jail.

12 And the longer that my property is held, you

13 know, by someone —- I don't even know where it's at. Uh, as

14 long as —— the longer my property is held by somebody else,

15 the more likelihood of misdirection, misconduct, exploitation,

16 whatever, what have you, that we have experienced in this

17 case previously.

18 And that‘s what my TRO goes into is the

19 numerous times my stuff has been seized in the past and

2O still not been returned to me. And my attorneys have not

21 done anything in regard to those.

22 Just to remind the Court as an example, uh, I

23 appeared here, uh, what, April 25th, 2014. I had a stack

24 of folders with me. Uh, we discussed, uh, speedy trial

 motions. We discussed attorneys. I was going to hire an

attorney. I filed some paperwork and was led out of here

and asked to be, uh, kept here at the jail —— or here in

Winnebago County. Upon leaving the court, all my paperwork

was taken. I have still not received that back; okay.

And I have documented as best I can, with the

meager amount of information I have, other instances of

seizing my property that's not been returned to me. And

uh, this is ~— this is hundreds of files and probably

10 thousands of documents that I've collected over two years.

ll They issued me large Rubbermaid plasticized

12 bins to carry it all. Now, the only thing in it was legal

13 work. And they targeted that and took it from me on July

14 30th. And when I say ”they took it from me,” it was jail

15 Superintendant Redmond who is a former police officer,

16 Rockford police officer and Sheriff Deputy Mark Karner who

17 is a former state's attorney.

18 In other words, they should know better than

19 to just walk in, take it and claim that we've now got a new

2O policy; you can't have this. And when I object, they say

21 ”talk to the State's Attorneys Office.”

22 Now, I want to know where it's at. And I

23 can, you know, agree with you and go along and say, hey,

24 let my attorneys handle it. But they were told about this
 yesterday, and I'd like to hear what they have done thus

far.

THE COURT: Well, if they just found out

about it yesterday, I don't know how they could do anything

about it.

THE DEFENDANT: There is e-mails. There is

phone calls. There‘s —-

THE COURT: Yes, but -*

THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) They were in

10 the jail. I mean, they can talk to ——

ll THE COURT: (Interrupting) That doesn't give

12 them much time.

13 THE DEFENDANT: (Continuing) -- a lieutenant.

14 THE COURT: It's less than 24 hours. So that

15 doesn't give them a whole lot of time.

16 Mr. Zimmerman, do you have a comment you‘d

17 like to make on this?

18 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Judge, we had called Sergeant

19 Fisher, and spoke to him. He was unaware of the situation.

2O He said he was going to look into it and get back to me.

21 And I haven‘t heard back from him yet. I can call him back

22 after leaving court ——

23 THE DEFENDANT: If the court ——

24 THE COURT: Don‘t interrupt him.

 THE DEFENDANT: I'm not going to.

THE COURT: Okay. All right. So they have

actually done something on it.

THE DEFENDANT: Well, the problem —— well ——

and that's what he said he was going to do. Uh, the

problem is Sergeant Fisher does not have the authority to

overrule the superintendent or to question the sheriff, uh,

the chief sheriff's deputy. I mean, they —— they have

blown me off in asking questions.

10 I mean, within the jail we have a system of

11 requests or grievances. And they have told me just to shut

12 up and it's been decided and to drop the whole situation.

13 Well, I mean, this is tantamount to the State

l4 having the defense's play book on what we're planning on

l5 doing. All trial prep, all correspondence between attorneys,

16 not just the attorneys here but past attorneys and other

17 attorneys that I've tried to be in contact with and, um —-

18 either whether I'm trying to hire them or trying to seek,

19 uh, information, uh, or counsel -- uh, were contained in

2O those two bins.

21 And it's -- you know, it's difficult to aid

22 or assist my attorney if I have little, you know, uh, uh ——

23 I don't know what to describe it as —— little record or

24 little, uh, evidence of what has transpired up to this

 10

point.

We all, uh —— we all have calendars. We all

have dockets. We all have notes to jog our memory or to

keep things in place. And I'm no different than anybody

else. In some cases I have to jog my memory to know what's

transpiring, what's coming up, what's scheduled, uh, what I

need to research, what I need to discuss with my attorney.

By taking all of this, I'm to Square 1. If

all the files regarding this entire case just disappeared

10 off the clerk's computer or there were no paper copies,

11 we'd basically have to start over. I'm starting over at

12 this point with next to nothing to show for two years of

13 study and research prior to going to trial.

14 And so, yes, it's only been 24 hours. But a

15 lot can happen in 24 hours, uh, with this property and ——

16 THE COURT: Actually it's probably less than

17 24 hours.

18 THE DEFENDANT: Well, like I said, I don't

19 even know who has it, uh, or where it's at.

2O THE COURT: Well, I'm going to —~

21 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) And for asking

22 access to the property, they say I'm not going to be given

23 access, uh, you know; stop asking.

24 THE COURT: Well, I'm going to give your

 11

attorneys a chance to look into it.

THE DEFENDANT: Can I file this, Your Honor?

THE COURT: You can —— you can file it; okay.

THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

THE COURT: And, Jamie, would you please get

it?

We'll give a copy to the State and a copy to

your attorneys.

THE DEFENDANT: It's all one~sided.

10 THE BAILIFF: I'll make copies.

11 THE COURT: Uh~huh (affirmative response).

12 Okay. What about the investigator?

13 THE DEFENDANT: Well, um...

14 THE COURT: What did you title your motion

15 about the investigator?

l6 THE DEFENDANT: Give me one second, Your

17 Honor. Uh, Motion to Compel Disclosure.

18 THE COURT: Motion to Compel Disclosure; I've

19 got that.

20 MS. WELLS: July 20th, Your Honor.

21 THE COURT: I've got it.

22 THE DEFENDANT: Give me one second. Along

23 with all my other property, uh, the jail officials took my

24 - copy of this document. So I am thankful that Mr. Zimmerman

 12

brought me a copy to go through; one second. I did notice

when Jamie made copies of it when I tendered it, uh, some

of the copies didn't come out double—sided. So there are a

few hick-ups in the document that, uh -—

THE COURT: I reviewed this document. I'm

not exactly sure what you're asking for or if you're just

making statements for the record.

THE DEFENDANT: No, I'm asking for something,

uh. I'd like it on the record.

10 THE COURT: What exactly are you asking for?

ll THE DEFENDANT: Well, uh, I can Skip to the

12 second page. Just like Mr. Perri; uh, when Frank Perri

l3 first met with me and was appointed, he came out and

l4 directly said "I'm conflicted; I don't want to be on your

15 case. I think you're guilty, so I'm going to put in a

16 Motion to Withdraw.”

17 Uh, similarly, uh, Mr. Faulkner was the very

18 first person I met from the Public Defender's Office when

19 Sami Azhari withdrew and the Court appointed me the Public

20 Defender's Office. He came over, introduced himself, said

21 that Mr. Doll would soon be talking with me, uh, were there

22 any things that a~ were there any things that, uh, I need

23 to talk to you. So we went through a few questions.

24 THE COURT: So let me short-Circuit you.

 13

THE DEFENDANT: Sure.

THE COURT: You're asking that Mr. Faulkner

be removed from the case as the investigator?

THE DEFENDANT: Well, he was removed from the

case. If you dig deeper into Exhibit 4 when I wrote, uh,

when I wrote Mr. Doll through Derrick Schmidt at the time.

Uh, Mr. Schmidt said that he would take over the duties of

the investigator and he would, um —— uh, he actually said

he liked doing his own investigation, talking to witnesses,

10 collecting evidence and so forth.

ll THE COURT: This is your letter. Exhibit 4

12 is your letter?

13 THE DEFENDANT: Let me see.

14 THE COURT: Right?

15 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, ma'am. Well, half of

16 it. The back page is missing on it.

17 THE COURT: I have a two—page letter as

18 Exhibit 4.

19 THE DEFENDANT: Okay; I don't so...

2O THE COURT: Okay. It's a two—page letter

21 that you wrote?

22 THE DEFENDANT: Correct.

23 THE COURT: All right.

24 THE DEFENDANT: We were having problems with,

 14

at that time, mail. If you read the first couple exhibits

of letters to attorneys, I was complaining about —— I put

my mail to them in the, you know, jail.

THE COURT: Well, let's don't get off track

here.

THE DEFENDANT: Right. And so I hand—

delivered ——

THE COURT: So Faulkner was not removed from

your case by the Court ——

10 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) No.

11 THE COURT: (Continuing) —V or by anyone else?

12 THE DEFENDANT: NO. I was told he was

13 removed from the case by Mr. Schmidt.

14 THE COURT: Okay. But that's just reflected

15 in your letter. You don't have anything from Mr. Schmidt

l6 that says Faulkner was removed from your case?

17 THE DEFENDANT: He never wrote me ever. He

18 never responded.

19 THE COURT: So the answer is yes; you don't

2O have anything from Mr. Schmidt or anybody else saying

21 Faulkner was removed from your case?

22 THE DEFENDANT: Well, he didn't show up after

23 that point.

24 THE COURT: Okay. Well, to answer my

 15

question: You don't have anything from Mr. Schmidt or any

other exhibit that says Faulkner was removed from the case?

THE DEFENDANT: I'm sorry, I missed that, Your

Honor; hold on. Would you say it again?

THE COURT: You don't have any written

document from anyone that says Faulkner was removed from

the case?

THE DEFENDANT: No, ma'am.

THE COURT: All right.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Um -1

11 THE COURT: So you want Faulkner removed from

12 the case?

13 THE DEFENDANT: Well, he wants removed from

14 the case too. But, uh, the, uh —— it's a precarious

15 situation. Because, like Mr. Perri, from the get—go he

16 said he thought I was guilty and he didn't want to do a

17 variety of things and would not.

18 THE COURT: I'm just going to interrupt for a

19 minute. I have received a Motion for Relief that is ——

2O ends with Exhibit No. 14. I also have copies to give ——

21 THE BAILIFF: (Interrupting) I gave them out

22 already.

23 THE COURT: Oh, you gave them out already;

24 okay. Thank you, Jamie.

 16

And that's the complete Motion for Relief

that you have filed?

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, ma'am.

THE COURT: All right. So we'll give this to

the clerk for filing. I'm just going to stamp it.

THE DEFENDANT: I just want to note for the

record: Like I said, I filed that on August 1st, and it

should have gone through the institutional mail.

THE COURT: You sent it on August 1st, but

10 nothing was filed.

ll THE DEFENDANT: I'd agree. Can we check with

12 the clerk —— I also had filed this motion that we're

13 discussing.

14 THE COURT: NO; no. We're not going to do

15 that right now. We're just going to do one thing at a

16 time; okay. So let me first get this in.

17 Okay. That will be given to the clerk to be

18 filed with today's date.

19 Okay. So on this Motion to Compel the Court

2O to remove Investigator Faulkner, do you have anything to

21 add other than what you have included in your documentation

22 here?

23 THE DEFENDANT: Yes. I was trying to, um,

24 ask the Court ~— I had to -- just like with this TRO, I had
 17

to handedeliver the Motion to Compel to be filed. And I

had asked counsel whether the mailed copy ever got to the

Court, uh, because it was mailed June 20th.

THE COURT: Well, we can check that later.

But do you have anything else you want to add to this

Motion to Compel Disclosure, which is really a motion to

remove the investigator from the case?

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Then please do that at this time.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. There were a number of

ll documents that I sought to have Mr. Faulkner secure. Um,

12 just as an example, one of them was a police report, D08198,

13 which was a mixed bag, a oneepage report which listed some

14 computer items, some miscellaneous items that, uh, had been

15 collected at my apartment, the basement of 1111 Grant

16 Avenue, the, um, attic of 1113 and my landlord's apartment,

17 1113.

18 Uh, that police report clearly showed that

19 they had collected mail that had come to me at 1111. Uh,

20 because Ms. Chavez was still going through her own cases

21 and it hadn‘t been resolved at that point when I first met

22 Mr. Faulkner, Mr. Azhari had showed me this police report.

23 And I said ”Well, could we get that police report and go

a
24 over it?“
 18

Um, despite not seeing discovery at that

point —— like I said, this was before I had even talked

with Mr. Doll, uh, and he had put ih the motion to withdraw

the office —— uh, Mr. Faulkner was adamant that “Well, the

police say that you lived at 1113”; that that was enough

for him. He wouldn't seek out that report.

I then pointed out that I, um, had, made a

court appearance prior to the February 8, 2008, appearance

in front of Judge Truitt. We've discussed that. And I

10 asked him to secure, um, a transcript of the February two

11 thousand —— or February 7, 2008, court appearance.

12 In that court appearance, I had asked the

13 Court for a Protective Order to preserve certain information.

14 He said he wasn't going to do that. Similarly, I asked him

15 to check on experts because of, uh, Mr. Azhari and I having

16 gone over the, you know, a couple hundred pages that at

17 that point he had gone over with me; we recognized that we

18 needed experts.

19 I discussed experts with Mr. Faulkner. He

20 said ”Well, you know, the office is not going to pay for

21 anything like that.” I mean, he was very adamant.

22 I could run through, oh, in the half hour or

23 45 minutes that we discussed, a litany of things that as

24 the investigator he said he was just not going to do; not

 19

that he would check with supervisors, not that he would

check with his boss, not that he would consult with the

attorneys. He unilaterally just would not do it because he

was of the opinion that I was guilty.

He had talked with other people in the office.

they agreed with him. And that kind of set the tone.

Now, he was very frank and open, because he

was certain that in talking with Mr. Doll and Ms. Sorensen,

that when they went into court soon after this, that the

10 court would not assign the Public Defender‘s Office. So he

11 was willing to speak freely, because he thought he would

12 not have to work with me or be assigned to my case.

13 So it was —— so it was a transparent moment

14 at that time where we just discussed things. I asked

15 certain things. He said "Nah, that's not going to get done.”

16 And some of the things that I asked him to

17 secure at that time have by now been destroyed or through

18 spoliation gone missing or possibly misconduct, uh, have

19 been —— disappeared in some way.

2O Um, one example is, uh, Pretrial Service

21 records and Day Reporting records. Now, we subpoenaed

22 those through Mr. Schmidt and were told that they didn't

23 exist. But if you turn to Exhibit 6, it should be a double~

24 sided copy. I only have a single—sided copy. But it lists

 20

my checking in to Day Reporting on the days and certain

notes. I have not been able to get more than this. I

received this document in one of my FOIAs; okay.

I specifically asked for the officers who did

these check—ins on these dates, okay, because they were

sheriff's police. I had to check in daily with the sheriff,

uh, prior to going to trial on my burglary case. Routinely

I had to call in.

Routinely I had to stop down at their office.

10 And routinely they had to stop by my apartment and make

11 sure I was in compliance. Those officers stopped at 1111

12 Grant Avenue where I lived and would walk through my house.

13 I would think that if the State is going to

14 try to prove otherwise, that I live somewhere else, these

15 sheriff's police that walked through my house and verified

16 that I was in compliance would be good witnesses, you know,

17 for the defense. And I made that aware to Mr. Faulkner.

18 Um, that's —— he was not going to do that and that was

19 beyond him, and he just wouldn't discuss it.

20 Like I said, Mr. Schmidt subpoenaed those

21 records, and we were told by the jail and the Sheriff's

22 Department they did not exist. I at least got some of

23 them.

24 Similarly, like I said, with my court

 21

appearance on February 7, 2008, we've been told that those

records don't exist.

But Exhibit 5 shows that after my court

appearance, which is listed on a document I now don't have

that went in my previous file that listed the court

appearance on February 7th somewhere around 3:30, 3:40 ——

you will see that at that time after my court appearance

Brian Klus entered some information into the data base

about phone calls and about, uh, entering data.

10 From what I'm told, this is called a ”change

ll log." And a "change log” is only brought up on their

12 computer system when something has happened and they have

13 got to change something. If nothing happened, there would

14 not be a listing for 15:44:39, you know, 3:44 at that time

15 of Mr. Klus signing in and changing the document.

16 This somewhat continues to prove that I went

17 to court that day and something happened. I tried to

18 secure with Mr. Faulkner to get those documents. He

19 refused.

20 As an example, on Exhibit 7, one of my FOIAs,

21 I asked for booking information and other basic information

22 based upon Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 6. I had to file this

23 FOIA because Mr. Faulkner refuses to look up any of that

24 type of information. I go to Mr. Zimmerman or past

 22

attorneys, and they've said, well, Mr. Faulkner is

independent; they have no control over what Mr. Faulkner

does.

Well, if the investigator assigned to my case

won't investigate, that makes it very difficult to defend

yourself. And so I did not necessarily want to do that,

but I filed this and other FOIAs to try to gain some of the

information I was looking for.

And as you will see at —— the third piece of

10 Exhibit 7 basically says at the bottom, "The logbook records

11 you request for those dates from 2-7—2008 through 2»25—2008

12 no longer are available as they have been destroyed." Okay.

13 Well, this letter I got from the jail on June

14 28, 2016, who knows what -— whether those records would

15 have been in existence two years ago —— or roughly two years

16 ago —— when I was asking Mr. Faulkner to secure them. But

17 at least by this document, it's now saying they've been

18 destroyed.

19 There are other records, uh, other letters

20 that I have written —— attached, uh, 8, 9 —- trying to set

21 up some meeting with all those involved in my case.

22 Routinely I meet with, uh, Mr. Zimmerman once a week a few

23 minutes before each of these court dates. Yesterday was

24 for 15 minutes, you know, before this court date. A month

 23

ago it was ten, fifteen minutes before that court date.

Mr. Zimmerman says that the person assigned

to go through all the discovery, that I've brought up again

and again and again, that I want to review is up to

Mr. Faulkner to go through with me.

Well, if he is not going to go through it

with me, or he is going to cherry pick or obstruct on what

I want to see and what he is going to gather, and if he is

outspoken in his conflicts, but Mr. Zimmerman has no choice

10 in the matter -— how he explains it to me, that that's the

ll person assigned; you can‘t do anything about it -- well then,

12 I'm kind of stuck.

13 Uh, because up to this point, I haven't

14 reviewed with counsel a whole host of documents that were

15 subpoenaed from Greg Clark's estate and files. And now I

16 don't even have, uh, the notes I took while I went through

17 those files, because they were seized on July 30th.

18 I don't have —— I have not gone through any

19 documents concerning the multiple litigations against my

2O landlord, Diane Chavez. She was found not guilty twice.

21 And there are transcripts and other documents that Mr.

22 Zimmerman was supposed to secure and that I'd like to go

23 through. I have not had -— been afforded that opportunity.

24 Then there is the large amount of documents,

 24

uh, you just handed to, you know, the State, more envelopes

of more discovery. I can count on my hand how many documents

I've gone through with Mr. Zimmerman.

And if it's left up to —— for me to review

with Mr. Faulkner those documents, that process hasn't

started, and we're fairly close to doing things. And so it

doesn't look like I'm going to get there.

And I don't want to get to the point where

Mr. Zimmerman is asking for continuances on my behalf to

10 review documents that —— if Mr. Faulkner has been assigned

11 to my case all this time, why haven't we reviewed all that --

12 those documents? We have had a year, and before that,

13 eight months with Mr. Schmidt. Oops.

14 THE COURT: Anything else?

15 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah. I've got an addendum

16 to this Motion to Compel Disclosure that I'd like to file

17 right now. It's not very voluminous, but it's only four

18 pages. Um.

19 THE COURT: Would you hand it to my bailiff

2O so that he can ——

21 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) I'll finish up

22 with this.

23 THE COURT: Does he have everything that you

24 need to have ——
 25

THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) Yes.

THE COURT: Okay.

THE DEFENDANT: That's it.

THE COURT: Okay.

THE DEFENDANT: The most important —— I say

this —— the most important point with this Motion to Compel

is, um, Gary Pumilia was the head of the Public Defender‘s

Office when I was first appointed conflict counsel.

Mr. Pumilia and I had the conflict because I

10 was suing him; okay. Back in 1992 in a burglary case that

ll I never got convicted of, I wanted expert witnesses at that

12 time. He said "Absolutely not; we're not going to pay for

13 it. You can't have them; get out of my office.”

14 Because I was in the process of suing

15 Mr. Lindmark and others, I wrote up to add Mr. Pumilia to

16 that suit. Subsequently, that suit was dropped by me

17 because those cases were dropped against me. I never went

18 to trial on them. I dropped everything.

19 But all of those documents that the State has,

20 and supposedly Mr. Zimmerman has, of my lawsuits against

21 potential witnesses and the search—warrant—issuing judge in

22 this case, I haven't gone through with counsel either. And

23 so in talking with Mr. Faulkner on our first meeting, I'm

24 saying, ”How are we going to resolve that?" The search

 26

warrants and warrants as by then —— by that point, Judge

Pumilia, uh, I have sued. I have got a conflict with that

person. And he is the one that ultimately led to me

getting conflict counsel and me having conflict counsel on,

from 1992 all the way up to Greg Clark.

He might feel responsible, you know, a little

bit that, hey, if I had solved this back then, Greg Clark

wouldn't be this man's attorney. That makes him less

neutral and detached. And I wanted, uh, Mr., uh, um,

10 Faulkner to resolve that. He refused.

ll THE COURT: Okay. I'm just going to

12 interrupt you real quick.

13 THE DEFENDANT: Sure.

14 THE COURT: Your document entitled Addendum

15 No. 2 ——

16 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) Yes.

17 THE COURT: (Continuing) —— is a document

18 that contains a handwritten first page, Exhibit No. 10,

19 which is an article and then Exhibit No. 11 and Exhibit No.

2O 12. That's the complete portion of Addendum No. 2; is that

21 correct?

22 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, ma'am.

23 THE COURT: All right. That will be added to

24 your Motion to Compel Disclosure.

 27

Okay. Anything else?

THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, I'm just going to cite

what we just added and then I'll be done. Um, if the

Court before you make this decision will refer to Frank

Perri's withdrawal motion. On Point No. 10 he says

”Counsel had heard on multiple occasions that it was the

belief of some members of the legal community that it was

the defendant that murdered the victim.”

I'm arguing that Mr. Faulkner is one of those

10 members of the legal community, and he told me outright

11 that he thought I was guilty in subsequent meetings. And

12 it's kind of hard to then review documents with somebody

13 with that conflict.

14 And since we have not sat down to review

15 documents at all, um, I would like him removed.

16 But Mr. Faulkner's attitude is one reason I

17 filed previously my declaration specifically on expert

18 witnesses. If you refer to Exhibit 10, I just put it in

19 there for the court record. We all know that the county is

2O unfortunately underfunded.

21 It's been in numerous articles that the

22 Public Defender‘s Office and the State's Attorneys Office

23 are asking for more money, as is the sheriff. I couldn't

24 get copies of some of the ones I wanted to put in and

 28

attach, but I —— I —— I think, uh, Ted Biondi's op—ed says

a little bit about it. But, you know, we're running at a

deficit at the moment.

And when I put that declaration in almost a

year ago concerning expert witnesses and funding and

financial concerns -— and the Court reassured me, we're

going to take care of that; if experts are needed, we're

going to get them paid for.

Well, counsel has not asked for funding for

10 any experts. And Mr. Faulkner, the last time I talked to

11 him, is adamant that the public defender is not paying for

12 them. And, you know, that's problematic.

13 One example of another thing: At the tail end

14 of when I last saw Mr. Faulkner, you know, almost a year

15 ago is Exhibit 11. I had received this —— the top half is

16 a mail notification form for inmates. If you're sent a

17 piece of mail and they return it or it‘s noncompliant with,

18 uh, standards at the jail, often inmates get a form like

19 this.

2O And it will show that, uh —— what is that ——

21 on July 11, 2015, I got a piece of mail from the Innocence

22 Project. I had been writing them, uh, frequently at that

23 time. Because, if the Court remembers, Derrick Schmidt had

24 abandoned my case and left the Public Defender's Office.

 29

And so I wasn't sure what was happening with

my case. And I had been writing the Innocence Project in

New York to try to get some representation.

If this document is accurate, they responded

to my inquiries and wrote me back. And for whatever

reason, the jail returned it to sender; did not allow me to

have it. Uh, I pointed that out prior to getting ~— this

is an example —— to Mr. Faulkner; he could have cared less.

The examples in the TRO that I submitted,

10 some of those I went through with Mr. Faulkner when I first

11 met him. Hey, they're mishandling my mail. Hey, it's

12 being rerouted to the State's Attorneys Office. Hey,

13 attorney—client privilege is not being honored; what are

14 you going to do about it?

15 I got the same response from Mr. Faulkner as

16 I got from David Doll, from Mr. Zimmerman; they kind of go

17 ”Well, we can't do anything about it.” So it's continued.

18 It's built up steam to the point where now they have taken

19 almost all of my legal work.

20 I -- you know, I have the right to try to

21 find other counsel, um, and this was my attempt —— Exhibit

22 11 was one of my attempts to find other counsel at the time

23 of Mr. Schmidt's leaving the case. Uh, if I can't correspond

24 with outside counsel in attempting to do that -- and as the

 30

Court knows, I have problems with the phone system and my

hearing. It's very difficult to call out and, uh, make

contacts that way. So I'm somewhat, uh, focused and

narrowed in what I can do by, uh, the mail system.

And if my mail system is interrupted and now

all those, uh, pieces of correspondence that I had sent out

and I did get returns on, and those addresses of attorneys

that showed maybe some interest but said ”No, we're not

taking on cases like that now," I no longer have even that

10 documentation.

11 And I won't take up much more of the Court's

12 time. Exhibit 12, the Court is probably familiar with this

13 case; I just wanted to put it on the record. Johnson v.

14 The City of Rockford, a number of men were, uh —— their

15 cases were overturned, uh, in regards to the DeMarcus

16 Hansen case.

17 And some of the policemen involved in that

18 arrest and case are being sued, uh, because the men

19 claim —- let me see —— egregious wrongdoing, fabricating

2O evidence and threatening witnesses.

21 On one of our first meetings with Mr. Faulkner,

22 I said ”Hey, those same defendants .." —— well, now

23 defendants; at that time they weren't defendants —— but

24 ”those same officers, uh, have done many of those things to

 31

me; uh, will you secure some information on what is involved

in this suit?” Because it would go towards credibility.

I cite People v. Patterson. Uh, our Supreme

Court, uh, has discussed admissibility of past misconduct

by police officers. And if it goes to, what is it —— I'm

sorry, I don't remember the term —— patterns and practices

of those officers, much along the same lines of bad acts

that the State might want to as or past cases involved in

me; roughly the criterias, by how I read it, the same,

10 Judge.

ll If you can show a series of bad acts by

12 police officers, it might come in to argue their credibility

13 or whether they're honest; or in a sense, we've been doing

14 motions in limine on some of that subject. It would have

15 been nice to have that investigation done by this point to

16 argue those facts in those motions; or it would be nice to

17 have a, uh, Motion to Suppress, uh, the warrants that Judge

18 Pumilia issued, uh, because of conflict of interest.

19 What I read in Jolly and, uh, Krankel and

2O those cases is I have to show neglect to get other counsel

21 to go further than what I have outlined here. And I think

22 clearly in Mr. Faulkner's case, I have shown neglect; that

23 his neglect has caused irretrievability of certain evidence

24 that we may never ~— it may be unfound. I mean, the jail

 32

might not have it or it might have been misplaced or it may

have been archived.

So there might not be any misconduct; it's —

as in the TRO, Annette Retzlaff was relieved from records

duty; now Captain Key is in charge of it. He may just not

know where those records are. So when I send a FOIA, he

may not be dishonest; he might just not know that they're

downstairs in some filing cabinet. I'll give him the

benefit of that doubt.

10 But some documents have gone missing, ones

ll which can definitely help my case. And if the investigator

12 won't retrieve them, won't do that work to then give to my

l3 counsel, that neglect has shown —— you know, that neglect

14 has caused damage to my case.

15 And so, yes, I want him relieved. But I want

16 other counsel to explore all of...all of this much more

17 thoroughly than I'm capable of, because w— I talked to

18 Mr. Zimmerman and, hey, you know, the investigator's

19 independent; he's over there, talk to him.

2O And when I've talked to David Doll to try to

21 get all of us on the same page -- because what I tend to

22 get is a lot of blame shifting; Mr. Zimmerman says ”That's

23 the responsibility of Mr. Faulkner.” Mr. Faulkner says

24 "It's Mr. Doll's responsibility.” Mr. Doll sends it back

 33

to Mr. Zimmerman, and we go all around in a circle without

resolving the matter.

So in Exhibit 9 and other letters I've sent

out, I said ”Hey, why don‘t we just all get together and

resolve this once and for all, sit down and have a meeting

with everybody in the same room”; therefore, you can't

throw off that, hey, it's not my responsibility, it's

somebody's else; hey, I didn't make that choice, uh, you're

stuck with this or you heard what the court said or this

10 person is in charge of that, talk to them.

ll Uh, they refuse to meet. Uh, I think it's

12 reasonable. If I was not, uh, incarcerated and were able

13 to walk into their office, I, I think they'd probably

14 recognize at least we should have one meeting to sit down

15 and resolve who is in charge of what.

16 But because I'm incarcerated and because I'm

17 somewhat handicapped in making phone calls, and because I‘m

18 left with writing letters that in most cases don‘t get to

19 their intended parties, and because Mr. Zimmerman's strategy

2O seems to be not talking with me at all, uh, not going over

21 discovery, not doing much —— and when questioned about what

22 do we do with Mr. Faulkner, "Hey, it's out of my control; I

23 have no say in that.” Um...

24 THE COURT: You're starting to repeat some of

 34

the things.

THE DEFENDANT: I apologize. And I —— I was

trying to conclude. So, therefore, I'm asking that these

conflicts be put on the record, which I've done. Thank you

for the opportunity.

I would like Mr. Faulkner replaced, uh, if

that's within your power. You can either instruct —— I

don't know how it's done, but instruct, uh, Mr. Doll to

pick somebody else, um i, and I'd like other counsel to

10 look into these areas which I have touched upon, uh, but

11 can't flesh out much more because —— well, I'm literally

l2 starting over right now with -- the documents you see in

l3 front of me are some of the only documents I now have

14 involved with my case. Thank you, Your Honor.

15 THE COURT: Okay.

16 All right. Mr. Zimmerman, is Mr. Faulkner

17 the investigator on this case?

18 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, Judge.

19 THE COURT: Has Mr. Faulkner seen Mr. Wanke

20 in the past year and a half?

21 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, Judge. And before going

22 further, I ——

23 THE COURT: Uh—huh (affirmative response).

24 MR. ZIMMERMAN: I know I have said it in the

 35

past, but I continue to object to engaging in these sort of

hearings vis—a—vis our representation of Mr. Wanke.

Mr. Simmons and myself are tasked with

representing Mr. Wanke, along with any investigators that

are appointed to represent him. And we must do that

zealously and consistently with the rules of professional

responsibility and consistently with our ethical

obligations, and we have done that. We continue to do that.

And if it was our belief that someone was

10 acting inappropriately or not conducting their —— doing

11 their job, then we would take it upon ourselves to correct

12 the situation. But, respectfully, I don't believe it's the

13 Court‘s —— I don't believe that the Court should be

14 involved in those sort of conversations, um, or that the

15 Court has any, um, authority so to speak with respect to

16 those sorts of issues, respectfully, Judge.

17 THE COURT: Well, Mr. Wanke has made several

18 allegations, and the Court is just asking information about

19 that. I think it's —- I want to be clear that just because

2O Mr. Wanke makes allegations doesn't mean the Court is

21 accepting his allegations or his characterization.

22 For example, he as Mr. Wanke has many times

23 repeated of how Derrick Schmidt abandoned his case, and

24 that is not factually correct. Mr. Schmidt left the

 36

office, and so he didn't abandon Mr. Wanke's case. He left

the Public Defender's Office.

And there are many things that —— that the

Court doesn't intend to interrupt Mr. Wanke when he is

speaking or correct them. But there are some factual

things that I need to make sure that I do find out about,

such as the allegation that the investigator has not seen

him for a year and a half. You say that that's incorrect,

that he has seen him ,_ he has seen him in the past year

10 and a half?

11 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Judge, if I could elaborate

l2 on that ——

l3 THE COURT: Uh—huh (affirmative response).

14 MR. ZIMMERMAN: (Continuing) —— since the

15 Court is asking me.

l6 Mr. Faulkner is the assigned investigator,

17 always has been the assigned investigator on this case.

18 Months ago as we were gearing up toward getting ready for

19 trial, we asked Mr. Faulkner to go over the reports with

2O Mr. Wanke again because, you know, he should be familiar

21 with them.

22 And, frankly, we don't have the time, the

23 attorneys 4— myself and Mr. Simmons —— to sit down with

24 Mr. Wanke as he reads through the reports. It's more

 37

efficient from our standpoint if we're working on his case

in the office and if he is reviewing the reports with the

investigator.

So my understanding is that Mr. Faulkner has

gone up there with reports to see Mr. Wanke.

THE COURT: 1 don't need to have ——

THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) Can I correct

the record; is that all right?

THE COURT: Hold on just a second.

10 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you.

11 THE COURT: I don't need Mr. Faulkner to file

12 an affidavit. I need Mr. Faulkner also to indicate —— or

13 also to engage in recordkeeping. So that if there comes a

14 time where Mr. Faulkner is called to the stand to testify

15 about his work on this case, that he can —— he has records

16 to refer to that indicate when he went there, what he went

17 over and what reports were gone over with Mr. Wanke. Is he

18 engaging in that practice at this time?

19 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Are you asking me?

2O THE COURT: Yeah.

21 MR. ZIMMERMAN: I don't believe so, no.

22 THE COURT: Okay.

23 MR. SIMMONS: Your Honor, if I may.

24 THE COURT: Yes.

 38

MR. SIMMONS: I know Mr. Faulkner at least

recently has been -— has created a record of when he did

attempt to meet with Mr. Wanke.

THE COURT: When you say "attempt to meet

with Mr. Wanke," what does that mean?

MR. SIMMONS: Um, I don't know if I'm allowed

to go into the communications between Mr. Faulkner and

Mr. Wanke because of attorney—client privilege. If

Mr. Wanke would like me to address, answer that, waive that

10 as far as that topic.

11 THE COURT: Mr. Wanke?

12 THE DEFENDANT: Well, the question I wanted

l3 to ask before was: Is Mr. Faulkner accountable to the ARDC?

14 THE COURT: Okay. We're not going to answer

15 that question now.

16 THE DEFENDANT: But -- but if it goes to what

17 Mr. Zimmerman said is under the professional code ——

18 THE COURT: Okay.

19 THE DEFENDANT: SO ——

20 THE COURT: We're not going to answer that

21 question at this time. So I've asked a question of

22 Mr. Simmons. He is concerned that that might be privileged

23 information, so he wants to make sure it's acceptable to

24 you to answer the Court's question.

 39

THE DEFENDANT: Well, I'm trying to correct

the record that Mr. Zimmerman says that Mr. Faulkner has

come to see me. He has come to see me. He has refused to

do —— to interact.

THE COURT: Okay; answer my question.

THE DEFENDANT: Which is what?

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Simmons was

attempting to respond to the Court‘s question. He said

that Mr. Faulkner has attempted to see you. I asked him:

10 What did that mean? And he wants to make sure it's all

11 right with you for him to explain that ——

12 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) Well, I don't

13 know what —-

14 THE COURT: (Continuing) -- what that means.

15 THE DEFENDANT: I don't know what Mr. Simmons

16 is going to say.

17 THE COURT: All right.

18 THE DEFENDANT: So it's kind of hard to ——

19 THE COURT: (Interrupting) You can talk to

20 him right now and find out.

21 (Whereupon, Attorney Simmons conferred with

22 the defendant off the record.)

23 THE DEFENDANT: You can show that to the

24 Court as long as I can comment on it; that's fine.

 4O

(whereupon, Attorney Simmons handed Attorney

Zimmerman a document.)

(whereupon, Attorney Zimmerman conferred with

the defendant off the record.)

MR. ZIMMERMAN: Judge, in talking with Mr.

Wanke, it's my understanding that he doesn't have an

objection to us informing the Court of the situation.

Is that correct, Mr. Wanke?

THE DEFENDANT: It wasn't a situation, uh,

10 you know -—

11 THE COURT: That information.

12 THE DEFENDANT: That information, no; that's

13 fine.

14 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Mr. Faulkner indicated in an

15 e—mail that he went to see Mr. Wanke —~ and I'll read the

16 e—mail verbatim. It's dated July 6, 2016. ”I went to see

17 Richard Wanke in BA this morning, July 6, 2016 at 9:36 a.m.

18 Richard poked his head into the sally port and said,” quote,

19 ”I'm not going to meet with you,” end quote, "then he

2O turned around and left,“ period.

21 THE COURT: All right. That's the kind of

22 documentation I'm referring to. It doesn't have to be

23 relayed to the Court each and every time, but it needs to

24 be kept as a record in this case. Okay.

 41

THE DEFENDANT: Can I respond to that?

THE COURT: Yes, you certainly can.

THE DEFENDANT: That did not happen. Okay.

He came over. I started asking him questions. While we

were entering the room, he said ”I'm not going to answer

them" and left; okay. And that's a fabrication.

And if, uh —— and if that's going to count as

a meeting, uh, I have more documents then to __ I have four

affidavits. Um...

10 THE COURT: Here is what I would like you to

11 do, give me everything you want to give me instead of you

12 keep ——

13 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) Well, I wasn't

14 going to bring this up, Your Honor.

15 THE COURT: Okay.

16 THE DEFENDANT: But if we're going to count

17 that as a meeting, okay, well then —— on July 19th, both

18 Mr. Simmons and Mr. Zimmerman came to speak with me. I

19 started asking them questions. They didn't want to answer

2O questions.

21 Mr. Zimmerman became very abusive, very angry,

22 stood up, yelled and screamed at me, clutched his folders

23 to his chest and stormed out of the room. Now, if that's

24 going to count as a meeting prior to our July 20th court

 42

date and be seen by the Court as, ”Well, but you had a

meeting with that person, uh, and you're now...and you're

being properly represented," I'm forced to present these

that -- these are the types of meetings I'm having with

these individuals.

And these are four affidavits from —— it was

so loud and boisterous that people in the other room

witnessed it and saw it and heard the yelling. So there is

four affidavits from inmates that saw my last meeting with

10 Mr. Zimmerman.

11 And I give you permission to talk about that;

12 go right ahead.

13 THE COURT: So you wish the Court to consider

14 those affidavits?

15 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, ma'am.

16 THE COURT: All right.

17 THE BAILIFF: Do you want me to make copies

18 of these?

19 THE COURT: Yes.

20 All right. So the other question I had for

21 counsel, Mr. Zimmerman, is: Has your investigator refused

22 to work on this case?

23 MR. ZIMMERMAN: NO.

24 THE COURT: All right.

 43

THE DEFENDANT: Can I ask what he has done?

THE COURT: NO.

(whereupon, the defendant laughed.)

THE COURT: The —— because that should be a

private discussion between you and your counsel, not in

open court on the record.

THE DEFENDANT: Well, he is unaware of what

Mr. Faulkner has done on numerous occasions. Like I said,

he claims that Mr. Faulkner is independent. So I have not

10 gotten that information from counsel.

ll THE COURT: We're just waiting for the

12 affidavits?

13 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.

14 THE COURT: In the meantime, let's look at

15 our calendars and see if there is any time next week that

16 we could set this possibly for the Court to give decisions

17 regarding those other items. And I was looking at August

18 18th as an option.

19 MS. HITE ROSS: I'm not available August

2O 18th, Judge.

21 . THE COURT: Okay. How about the week of

22 August 22nd then?

23 MS. HITE ROSS: Yes.

24 MR. BRUN: And, Your Honor, if we're looking

 44

at the week of August 22nd, the only day that I'm not

available is Thursday, the 25th. Any other day would be

fine.

THE COURT: These affidavits have been turned

over to the clerk. And you wish me to attach them to your

Motion to Compel Disclosure and the Addendum No. 2?

THE DEFENDANT: Please.

THE COURT: Okay.

All right. What about the week of the 22nd

10 for defense counsels?

11 MR. ZIMMERMAN: I'm sorry, what date was

12 suggested?

l3 THE COURT: The only day you weren‘t

14 available was what day?

15 MR. BRUN: Thursday, the 25th.

16 THE COURT: So we're looking at Monday,

17 Tuesday and Wednesday basically.

18 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Judge, I can be available ——

19 I do have matters —— actually Mr. Simmons I think has PSI'S

2O both the afternoons of the 22nd and 24th.

21 MR. SIMMONS: If we can do the afternoon of

22 the 23rd, that would work best for defense.

23 THE COURT: On the 23rd in the afternoon I

24 have a sentencing and I have a Motion to Suppress ID. So I

 45

could set it then. I won't have as much time as I try to

set for these —— this case. But I could set it then.

Are you on my sentencing?

MR. SIMMONS: Judge, I'm not positive.

THE COURT: It's Edward Jackson.

MR. SIMMONS: No, Your Honor, it's Attorney

Dlhy.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. ZIMMERMAN: Judge, if it's just decision,

10 I think we could do it on one of the dates when Mr. Simmons

11 is not available. I can get him up to speed on what the

12 Court's decisions are.

13 THE COURT: You aren't available on the 24th

14 in the afternoon?

15 MR. SIMMONS: I have got a presentence

16 investigation scheduled with Probation Monday and Wednesday

17 that week at 2:00 o'clock.

18 THE COURT: How long do those take?

19 MR. SIMMONS: It could be anywhere from one

20 to two hours.

21 THE COURT: Well, why don't we set it —— if

22 it's available to the defense, why don't we set it at 3:30

23 on the 24th, because I should be available then and I

24 should have the rest of the afternoon. So if that's

 46

available, and then if you're running a little late...

That should give you enough time. But if it doesn't ——

MR. SIMMONS: (Interrupting) And, Your Honor,

I can contact Probation and see if I can move that interview,

if that would help. If we wanted to set it earlier, I may

be able to get it moved with this much notice.

THE COURT: Is your interview with somebody

that's in custody?

MR. SIMMONS: Yes.

10 THE COURT: Okay. What are the other parties'

11 schedules like? Is 2:00 o'clock available on the 24th?

12 MS. HITE ROSS: Yes, Judge.

13 THE COURT: Is that available with you,

14 Mr. Zimmerman?

15 MR. ZIMMERMAN: The 24th?

16 THE COURT: 2:00 o'clock on the 24th.

17 MR. ZIMMERMAN: That's fine.

18 THE COURT: All right. We'll set it at 2:00

19 o'clock on the 24th.

2O Okay. So let me just review these documents

21 that have just been handed to the Court.

22 All right. Anything else, Mr. Wanke?

23 THE DEFENDANT: Um, like I said, uh, if

24 Mr. Faulkner popping his head in and when I start to ask

 47

him questions he throws up his hands and leaves is counted

as a visit, and when Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Simmons come on

July 19th and I asked them questions and they refused...

and Mr. Zimmerman gets upset and stomps out —— if those

count as visits and adequate representation, well, then I

don't know how to show that ..communications are very

difficult at this time. I try to come prepared to each

meeting.

Now, unfortunately, none of these meetings

10 are scheduled. They just do a pop—in; just like on July

11 19th, it was at dinner time. It was close to the end of

12 the day. I'm assuming Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Simmons had

13 had long days, you know, appearing in court. I'll give

14 them the benefit of the doubt on that.

15 And, uh, I'm not trying to allude to

16 anything, uh, anything of misconduct to Mr. Zimmerman.

17 What I'm trying to say is I thought I had

18 reasonable questions. I kept my cool; he didn't. He got

19 angry and stomped out. If that's seen by the Court as a

2O productive meeting, uh, where we did not review documents;

21 we did not discuss trial strategy; we did not discuss much

22 of anything, other than me wanting to know where the case

23 was and whether certain things had been done at that point

24 or not, uh —— and I'm getting blanket refusals from

 48

everybody involved in the case.

And then I try to go to Mr. Doll to try to

resolve it so that we can all sit down and communicate.

And that has gone nowhere. I have no other place to go

except to the Court and say “Please resolve this.“

Uh, other than that, while we're scheduling

things, can we schedule something to have my property

returned or that ——

THE COURT: We can.

10 THE DEFENDANT: I would rather not have it

11 wait until, you know, our next court date. Because I just

l2 don't want misadventure to happen with all my property.

l3 It‘s —~ because it's very important to me, at least to have

14 Mr. Zimmerman inform the Court so you can then look at the

15 TRO to see whether it's needed or not. I don't need to be

16 here, you know; if he can submit ——

17 THE COURT: (Interrupting) We will never do

18 anything on your case without you being here.

19 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.

2O THE COURT: That's not going to happen.

21 THE DEFENDANT: (Defendant laughed) I'm

22 trying to expedite, Your Honor, because everybody has got

23 busy schedules except me.

24 THE COURT: Okay.

 49

All right. With —— do you have any response

to the allegations raised in the Affidavit, Mr. Zimmerman?

MR. ZIMMERMAN: No, Judge; just the same

objection that I had previously lodged.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Wanke, with

respect to your Motion to Compel Disclosure, which is

actually a motion to disqualify or to remove the public

defender's investigator, Mr. Faulkner, the Court is going

to deny that request.

10 It doesn't appear, as you have stated, that

11 Mr. Faulkner was ever taken off the case because of a

12 conflict. Mr. Faulkner has not refused to work on the

13 case. He may not have fulfilled the requests you give him.

14 But Mr. Faulkner doesn't have to fulfill all the requests

15 that you make of him.

16 He has to do the investigation that he, um,

17 that he is instructed to do by his —- by the attorneys on

18 this case.

19 I would also note that of course this case ——

2O although dating, the allegation is dating from February of

21 2008 _, was not filed until 2014. So the fact that he

22 didn't do things ~~ it seemed to me that you were arguing

23 that he didn't do things earlier than 2014.

24 THE DEFENDANT: No; no, I asked him to go

 50

back to look at all those documents that have now

disappeared ——

THE COURT: All right.

THE DEFENDANT: (Continuing) —— and that if

he had acted at that time in 2014 when we first met, now

here in 2016, we might have those documents.

THE COURT: Okay. But as is true in many of

your arguments, you have speculation and conjecture. There

is -— there is no proof that any documents weren't

10 available because of any particular thing. You speculate

11 that maybe they weren't available because of that, but we

12 don't know.

l3 There —— frankly, the exhibits that you add

14 say show a certain thing, and I don't thing they

15 necessarily show that.

16 But the Court sees no conflict —— I have not

17 been made aware of any conflict with Mr. Faulkner. He is

18 doing what his counsels are asking him to do. And he has

19 been to see you.

2O And I will order, as I have ordered before,

21 that the public defender and their staff that is working on

22 this case keep very close records of what they're doing,

23 when they do it and what they're going over.

24 Now, Mr. Wanke, let me tell you that if the

 51

attorneys and the public defender's investigator come over

to review documents with you and you refuse to go over

those documents with them.

THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) That has not

happened, Your Honor.

THE COURT: That's good.

(Whereupon, the defendant laughed.)

THE COURT: But if you do refuse to go over

documents with them or if you do refuse to let them talk

10 and direct the conversation the way they need to for that

11 purpose ww such as instead of answering your questions,

12 they may want to tell you certain things. And so they have

13 certain things they have to cover with you ——

14 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) I'd love to be

15 told those things.

l6 THE COURT: (Continuing) -— and if you don't

17 let them do that, then you can't complain about the fact

18 that they're not doing it. So I know you like to ask a lot

19 of questions. You have a very inquisitive mind.

20 But they must come in and do some of the

21 things they need to do without maybe questions about

22 litigation or lawsuits from other people that may or may

23 not have any relevance to your case.

24 So you're going to have to —— you're going

 52

to have to be patient and to listen to what they have to

say instead of maybe interrupting them or asking them

questions that they don't really have to answer anyway.

THE DEFENDANT: I have not been interrupting

them, just for the record.

THE COURT: So that's just what I'm telling

you. Because they do have to go over the discovery with

you. That has to be gone over, and ——

THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) I'm free

10 tomorrow; sorry.

11 THE COURT: You don't always get to set the

12 schedule.

13 THE DEFENDANT: Right.

14 THE COURT: And this is kind of an example of

15 perhaps what I'm talking about. Instead of maybe listening

16 to what I'm saying and trying to take it in, you're trying

17 to tell me, you know, things like that.

18 They can't always do it according to your

19 schedule. They might have to come over when they can come

20 over. So they might not be able to come over tomorrow.

21 They might not be able to come at a time that you think is

22 real convenient. But they have to come over. And you have

23 to let them go over the discovery with you.

24 And if you have questions you want to ask

 53

that is preventing them going over the discovery with you,

you will have to keep those questions for another day so

that discovery can be gone over with you. But you have to

let them do that; otherwise, you can't complain they

haven't gone over your discovery. So...

THE DEFENDANT: Well, just to clarify, I have

not prevented that. So I want —— that's —— that's not the

correct perception. I have —— I have asked to go over

discovery repeatedly. Uh, Mr. Faulkner has not done it.

10 And if he shows up empty—handed again and

11 again and again and wants to talk about what he has read,

12 without me actually seeing any documents —— and that's the

13 only way I can determine what's in discovery, by asking him

14 what he has read.

15 THE COURT: All right. So it's clear there

16 is a dispute about whether or not you have gone over the

17 discovery; is that correct?

18 THE DEFENDANT: That‘s we I hope that that's

19 very clear. I have not gone over any discovery with him.

2O He has not brought one document over to go over with me.

21 THE COURT: So then I ~—

22 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) I have seen

23 five or six documents with Mr. Zimmerman. The last time I

24 went through any documents of substance was with Mr. Azhari.

 54

Uh, there is a pattern of showing up with a

folder and clutching it to their chest and talking about

what's in this folder but never showing me the documents.

And I'd like to independently go —— at least sit down and

let me look through those documents.

With the records from Greg Clark's file, they

sent an intern over to —— I think in six meetings for me to

go over every single document. I took copious notes. Uh,

and I have waited to meet with Mr. Zimmerman to go over

10 those notes, and that has never happened.

11 THE COURT: Okay. We're not talking about

12 you going over your notes with him -—

13 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) And now I

14 don't as

15 THE COURT: What we're ——

l6 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) And now I

17 don't have those.

18 THE COURT: What we're talking about ——

19 THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) And now I

20 don't have those notes.

21 THE COURT: Okay. We're not talking about

22 that right nOw. What we're talking about is you're saying

23 you haven't gone over the discovery in this case —— and I'm

24 not talking about the items from Mr. Clark's office,

 55

because you have indicated you have gone over them.

THE DEFENDANT: Yes.

THE COURT: I'm talking about the police

reports and things of that matter. You say you haven't

gone over those documents with the investigator or anyone

else?

THE DEFENDANT: Not one with the investigator.

THE COURT: Or anyone else from the Public

Defender‘s Office?

10 THE DEFENDANT: Derrick Schmidt, uh, I went

11 through three, three documents that he wanted me to

12 explain. They -- they weren't police reports. They were ——

l3 they were legal papers that -- from Greg Clark's office

14 that were in discovery. And I pointed out that, well, you

15 know, those are privileged documents; how are they in

16 discovery? And I said, you know ——

17 THE COURT: (Interrupting) You don't have to

18 tell me what you said about the documents. I just have to

19 make sure you have gone over the discovery.

2O THE DEFENDANT: Well, I have not.

21 THE COURT: All right.

22 THE DEFENDANT: I have tried to make that

23 clear repeatedly to the Court.

24 THE COURT: Okay; stop talking for a minute.

 56

So now I am telling the defense attorneys,

they're going to have to respond to that allegation in

court. Because Mr. Wanke has raised that allegation; it

has to be responded to. So if you're not prepared to

respond to that at this time, you can respond on the next

court date. But I need to know that he has gone over the

discovery. And Mr. Wanke is the one who has made that

allegation, so Mr. Wanke has to deal with the fact that you

have to respond to that.

10 THE DEFENDANT: I want to make —— I want to

ll make this clear so that there is no misunderstanding,

12 because you and I have misinterpreted a little bit of

13 whether a meeting is a meeting or whether going over

14 discovery is going over discovery.

15 And I -2 and I was answering your direct

16 question on have I gone over with —— any discovery with

17 Mr. Faulkner; absolutely not, none.

18 THE COURT: I said with anyone.

19 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. But I wanted to

2O clarify that. With Mr. Faulkner, absolutely not.

21 THE COURT: Okay.

22 THE DEFENDANT: Probably five documents, uh,

23 with —— five documents with Mr. Zimmerman.

24 THE COURT: Uh—huh (affirmative response).

 57

THE DEFENDANT: Probably two or three

documents with Mr. Schmidt; none with Mr. Simmons.

THE COURT: Uh—huh (affirmative response).

THE DEFENDANT: Uh, with Erin Hannigan, one

document that she was concerned with. With —— none with

Mr. Perri; none with Mr. Doll and probably —— at the time I

was represented by Mr. Azhari, uh, he only had several

hundred documents. I went through probably a hundred of

those, but none of them were police reports at that time.

10 Um, so they were a bunch of miscellaneous,

11 uh, itemized lists. That's how I —— or one of them was a

12 police report, uh, DOBl96. But it wasn't, uh, like a

13 police report where it -- it was an itemized list of

14 recovered evidence.

15 THE COURT: Uhahuh (affirmative response).

16 THE DEFENDANT: It didn't have a narrative.

17 It didn't have a summary. It didn't have anything along

18 those lines.

19 Um, but just so I‘m clear, that -— I've kept

2O track —— or my notes unfortunately are in the possession of

21 the jail, but I've kept track myself.

22 THE COURT: Okay.

23 THE DEFENDANT: And —— and I think I have

24 objected enough on past times when Mr. Zimmerman has asked

 58

for a continuance to go over discovery with me, and I've

said ”What was that continuance for?"; because we didn't do

that. And —— and the Court would give another discovery ——

or another continuance to go over discovery. And I

objected in the past for that, because we did not do what

the continuance was for.

I actually -e if you read one of, I think

Declaration No. 5, where it said, hey, the Court is granting

continuances and those aren't —— and the objectives for

10 those continuances aren't being fulfilled.

ll THE COURT: Well, just so it's clear, I don't

12 recall ever saying the continuances were for counsel to go

13 over discovery with you, as much as I said the continuances

14 were for counsel to go over the discovery.

15 THE DEFENDANT: I'll agree with you on one

l6 thing. I probably egotistically thought it was to go over

17 it with me, okay, at some point. But that's not been done.

18 And I'm sorry to backtrack, but I want to

19 clarify one more thing that you said. Mr. Faulkner was the

2O one that said Derrick Schmidt abandoned my case. Mr.

21 Faulkner was the one that initially said he was on vacation

22 or he had to take parental leave because of a sick child.

23 And he made several different reasons, and then he said

24 abandonment.
 59

I picked up on that term and looked it up and

put it into one of my declarations. I'm repeating

"abandonment” because that's what he said; okay. And of

course he withdrew that, understanding the ramification of

the misspeak. But that's why I'm —— that's why I'm using

the word; he said it.

I found out after the fact he went into

private practice. But, you know, you have to question if

he was appointed to my case and everyone knew he was going

10 to go into private practice at some point, why did he get

11 assigned this case? Anyway, thank you.

12 THE COURT: All right. It's a little off

13 track here.

14 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.

15 THE COURT: But, um -— and I would just point

16 out, although -- as you know, even in this document, but

17 certainly in all your documents, you're very good about

18 putting —- you‘re very good at grammar. You‘re very good

19 about putting quotation marks in when you‘re referring to

2O something else.

21 But on Exhibit 11 of the Addendum No. 2, you

22 clearly state, um, "Public Defender Derrick Schmidt had

23 abandoned my case." You didn't say that somebody else said

24 it. You said it.

 60

THE DEFENDANT: Well, it very much felt like

abandonment at the time also, Your Honor. So I'm —— I'm

not disagreeing with you that I felt it also.

THE COURT: All right. 80 —~

THE DEFENDANT: (Interrupting) It's -— it's

disconcerting being here and having so many attorneys go

through and being assigned and withdraw, assigned and

withdraw. I experienced the same thing over in Judge

McGraw's court for a number of months. And you feel out of

10 balance.

11 So, you know, it felt like abandonment. And

12 when Mr. Faulkner confirmed it by using the word, I mean, I

13 attached myself to it.

14 THE COURT: The —— as I said, the motion to

15 take Mr. Faulkner off the case as the investigator is

16 denied, uh, and for the reasons that the Court stated on

17 the record.

18 So we have two other issues then besides the

19 issues that we're carrying over from today that need to be

2O dealt with, which is the issue regarding the property ——

21 counsel is looking into that —— and then the issue

22 regarding the discovery review with the defendant.

23 So I could probably find some time next week

24 to deal with just those two issues, because that may take a
 61

little less time. But I don't know if that gives the

parties time, or if there is any time available next week

for the attorneys.

And you said you weren't available you said,

was it Thursday, counsel?

MS. HITE ROSS: Wednesday and Thursday, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: Wednesday and Thursday you're not

available.

10 MR. BRUN: Would the Court be available any

11 time on Monday or Tuesday, the 15th or 16th?

l2 THE COURT: I could be.

13 MR. ZIMMERMAN: It depends what time, Judge.

14 THE COURT: You tell me what works for you.

15 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Tuesday afternoon is great.

16 THE COURT: That would be fine too. What

17 time?

18 MR. ZIMMERMAN: 1:30.

19 THE COURT: I could set it then. If I'm

2O handling a trial for another judge, I might not be available

21 until later, which I have offered to do. But we should

22 know that Monday morning, and then we can switch it maybe

23 to 4:00 o'clock on Tuesday. But we don't need to set it

24 then just in case I'm free.

 62

MS. WELLS: I'm sorry, Judge, I didn't hear

originally what time you were setting it.

THE COURT: 1:30 on Tuesday, August 16th.

MS. WELLS: I had the date; I just didn't

know the time. Thank you.

THE COURT: The two issues that I'll be

taking care of on that date are the, the answer to the

Court's question regarding the discovery review with the

defendant and the document issue.

10 MR. BRUN: Your Honor, before proceeding __ I

11 apologize -_ Ms. Hite Ross reminded me we have a 1:00

12 o'clock meeting with a family of a victim's case. Is it

l3 possible on Tuesday afternoon if we could do 2:00 or 2:30;

14 is that too late?

15 THE COURT: That's fine with me.

16 MR. ZIMMERMAN: That's fine.

17 THE COURT: Let's say 2:30 to make sure you

18 have enough time.

19 MS. HITE ROSS: Thank you, Judge.

20 MR. BRUN: Thank you, YOur Honor.

21 THE COURT: Any questions about the limited

22 issues on the 16th?

23 MR. ZIMMERMAN: No, Your Honor.

24 THE COURT: Okay.

 63

MS. HITE ROSS: Judge, the State would like

to address the Court.

THE COURT: Yes.

MS. HITE ROSS: We are seeking to file our

22nd Supplemental Answer today. In addition, Judge, we do

have prepared voir dire questions which the Court had asked

that we tender to the Court in advance.

THE COURT: Yes.

MS. HITE ROSS: In addition, we are filing

10 four additional motions in limine, and I will indicate to

11 the Court, Motion in Limine 23, 24, 25 and 26.

12 Motion in Limine 25 and 26 relate to a prior

13 motion in limine that the People had filed, specifically

14 Motion in Limine No. 16 that relates to proof of other

15 crimes, although it is entitled —— it is entitled

16 differently, Judge.

17 These are other documents that we wanted the

18 Court to be aware of that we would be seeking to admit.

19 The Court had indicated that it would appreciate giving

20 notice —— or be given notice, so we filed those additional

21 motions in limine.

22 Motion in Limine No. 24 relates to the

23 People's Motion in Limine No. 20 dealing with identification

24 testimony.
 64

And Motion in Limine No. 23, Your Honor, is a

motion that we're filing in anticipation that some of the

witnesses may need to, uh —— we may need to ask the Court

to admit their prior inconsistent statements. So we filed

Motion in Limine No. 23 just as a guide for the Court,

should that issue arise obviously. We won't know until we

get into the testimony, but we wanted the Court to have

that as well.

MS. WELLS: I have courtesy copies for the

10 Court. May I approach?

11 THE COURT: Yes.

12 All right. So I'm going to hand these to the

13 clerk at this time. So it's clear, I‘m giving them to the

14 clerk.

15 MS. WELLS: The only thing I'm not giving the

16 Court a courtesy copy of is the discovery answer, because

17 we don't generally do that.

18 THE COURT: No, that's fine.

19 MS. WELLS: But I do have the voir dire

20 questions as well as the motions in limine and case law

21 which I provided to counsel as well.

22 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

23 I'm not going to file your list of proposed

24 voir dire questions. I don't know that that's an

 65

appropriate document for me to file, as much as for us to

go over. So I'm not going to put it in the court file, so

I'll give you the original copy back.

And —— and I won't do it for the defense

either. I'll just -- that will just be a working document

for us to use, but it won't be part of the court file,

unless you want it to be for some reason.

MR. BRUN: I'm also -2

MS. HITE ROSS: (Interrupting) Judge, I don't

10 think we need to have it as part of the file today.

11 However, for example, if there are questions that are

12 refused —-

13 THE COURT: (Interrupting) Right.

14 MS. HITE ROSS: (Continuing) —- and the Court

15 feels it‘s appropriate to seal it for the record, then we

16 would be fine with that, Your Honor.

17 THE COURT: Okay.

18 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Judge, we had, um, in

19 addition to the proposed voir dire questions, we had also

2O filed a Motion for a Juror Questionnaire, which it attaches

21 with it a questionnaire which essentially is voir dire

22 questions.

23 THE COURT: Uh—huh (affirmative response).

24 MR. ZIMMERMAN: That's as Exhibit A. So if

 66

the Court —— the motion itself it seems to me should

probably be filed.

THE COURT: Uh~huh (affirmative response).

MR. ZIMMERMAN: If you don't want to include

the attachment ,_

THE COURT: (Interrupting) I'm fine to do

that. I just didn't know if they should be part of the

court file, um, the actual questions yet. Because, of

course, the court file is public record, and I don't know

10 if we want that in the public record at this time —— or I

11 could file it and seal it.

l2 MS. HITE ROSS: I think if the juror

13 questionnaire or motion is filed, that it should be sealed,

14 Judge; otherwise, it defeats the whole purpose of having

15 the questionnaire.

16 MR. ZIMMERMAN: That's fine.

17 THE COURT: Okay. So the Motion for Jury

18 Questionnaire will be filed and not sealed.

19 MR. SIMMONS: And, Your Honor, this is the

2O original of that motion. We gave you a courtesy copy.

21 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Thank you.

22 So here is what I'm going to do: I'm going

23 to have the State give me your clerk‘s copy of the voir

24 dire questions. And I'm going to file that along with the
 67

defendant's proposed jury questionnaire.

The State's voir dire questions ——

THE CLERK: (Interrupting) Okay.

THE COURT: (Continuing) -- the defendant's

jury questionnaire and the defendant's proposed voir dire

questions will be sealed at this time; okay.

THE CLERK: Uh—huh (affirmative response).

THE COURT: So tell me what you've got so I

can make sure you have everything.

10 THE CLERK: I have the voir dire questions,

ll the State's. And I have all —— their Motion for Relief and

12 an Addendum 2 and the affidavit and stuff from previously.

13 THE COURT: Okay. So I have the proposed

14 voir dire questions from the defense. It says CC on it, so

15 I thought that was Court's copy.

16 MR. SIMMONS: It is. And we have the

17 original as well.

18 THE COURT: You have the original; okay.

19 So you give that to them. The jury

20 questionnaire I have. So there is a Motion for Jury

21 Questionnaire -—

22 THE CLERK: Uh~huh (affirmative response).

23 THE COURT: (Continuing) —— and then the

24 .questionnaire is attached.
 68

THE CLERK: Okay.

THE COURT: SO the motion can be filed but

the questionnaire is sealed.

All right. So do you have ——

I'm just asking the clerk now because I want

to make sure we don't lose documents. Because sometimes I ——

I just don't want to make -- you know, I just want to make

sure they get there.

Now, you have the State's list of proposed

10 voir dire questions?

ll THE CLERK: Yes.

12 THE COURT: You have the defendant's proposed

l3 voir dire questions?

14 THE CLERK: Yes.

15 THE COURT: You have the defendant's proposed

16 jury questionnaire?

17 THE CLERK: Yes.

18 THE COURT: And those documents will all be

19 sealed.

2O THE CLERK: Yes.

21 THE COURT: You have the defendant's motion

22 for jury questionnaire?

23 THE CLERK: Yes.

24 THE COURT: And that will not be sealed.

 69

THE CLERK: No.

THE COURT: All right. And then the State

has also filed some additional discovery today, and you

have that?

THE CLERK: Yes.

THE COURT: And that is also not sealed.

And everyone has given me a courtesy copy,

which I appreciate. Hold on just a second.

(Whereupon, Judge Collins stepped off the

10 bench momentarily.)

11 THE COURT: Okay. We're back on the record;

12 sorry for the interruption.

13 So Tuesday, August 16th, regarding those two

14 issues. Then on August 24th it's a decision regarding the

15 Motion to Dismiss and the motions in limine. The Court

16 will allow argument on the additional motions in limine

17 that have been received.

18 Because I believe the defense just got them

19 today too; is that correct?

2O MS. HITE ROSS: Yes, Judge.

21 THE COURT: So I will give you time to look

22 at it. So if we can, we'll do argument on those additional

23 motions in limine.

24 And anything else? Mr. Wanke, anything else?

 70

THE DEFENDANT: No; thank you.

THE COURT: All right. Anything from the

State?

MR. BRUN: No, Your Honor. I'm just

preparing a scratch order consistent with the sealing of

the documents, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you.

Anything else from the defense?

MR. ZIMMERMAN: Judge, one other thing: On

10 the State's 22nd Supplemental Answer, they list an expert

ll witness, someone from the lab, Amanda Soland. Included

12 with the Supplemental Answer —— I don't see that person's

13 name anywhere or in any reports.

14 I'm curious if —— so I guess I'm —— certainly

15 she could have been disclosed otherwise in other documents.

16 I just don't see her in this —— in that, and I'm not

17 familiar with the name as having previously been disclosed.

18 THE COURT: All right. Let's take a look at

19 that.

2O MS. WELLS: Judge, she has been disclosed

21 previously. Her lab reports are from June 16th of 2008. I

22 can show counsel those. Discovery Page 709, 710, 711, 712,

23 specifically are the ones I have right in front of me.

24 So she has been previously listed in the

 71

first discovery answer and specifically those pages were

included in the report.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. ZIMMERMAN: That's fine, Judge. I just

wasn't sure.

THE COURT: Yeah. And if for some reason

those pages are missing from your packet or anything, that

way you'll know what pages to get from the State.

MS. WELLS: Yes. And if there is ever a

10 question on discovery, counsel just needs to ask and we'll

11 assist in making copies or whatever else they need.

12 THE COURT: Anything else then?

13 MR. ZIMMERMAN: So just so I'm clear, on the

14 22nd we're arguing the motions in limine and getting

15 decisions.

16 THE COURT: On the 24th.

17 MR. ZIMMERMAN: I'm sorry, the 24th.

18 THE COURT: Okay; yes. The additional

19 motions in limine.

2O And I think we've argued most of the other

21 ones, haven't we?

22 MS. HITE ROSS: Yes.

23 MR. ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

24 THE COURT: All right. Thank you, everyone.

 72

MR. BRUN: Thank you, Your Honor.

MS. WELLS: Thank you, Judge.

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 73

CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER

1, Sandra Brassfield, a Certified Shorthand

Reporter in and for the State of Illinois, do hereby
certify that I reported in stenographic shorthand the
testimony given in the aforesaid cause and that the
foregoing transcript is a true and correct transcription of
my stenographic notes so taken as aforesaid and contains
all the testimony given at said cause to the best of my
ability.
I further certify that I am neither attorney or
counsel for, nor related to or employed by any of the
parties in this action, and further that I am not a
relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by
the parties hereto or financially interested in the action.
10

11

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l3

14
nétfieO
Sandra Brassfier, CSR
License No. 084—003291c
15 17th Judicial Circuit
State of Illinois
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